text: On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Yitzchak Gale <gale at sefer.org> wrote: > Ben Millwood wrote: >> So essentially, all you are asking for is an official implementation >> of haskell parsing, so that you input a program and it spits out >> either "valid" or "not valid", according to the parts of the spec that >> it audits. > > Yes, that is the most essential requirement. > > It is a desirable feature for it to work as a parser, too. > It can then be used as the basis for further verification > tools, and for parsing with guarantees about standards > compliance. And haskell-exts does work as a parser, > though it perhaps not as polished as some other parsers. But if we make the official parser usable for AST manipulation, we have to rule on the design issues I raised above: whether to make efforts to stop invalid lambdas being constructed, how to name the types and constructors, etc. All of this relatively special-interest stuff now becomes the business of the language design committee, which sounds like an unnecessary burden to me. Also, don't get me wrong - haskell-src-exts is a leader in its field, it's more mature than any other standalone Haskell parser I know of. But it's still a complex library with difficult issues to be tackled, and I don't think the place to tackle those issues is in the language specification. >> ...compliance to a reference implementation... >> tends to be more painful as a process. If there are bugs in the >> reference implementation, other implementations then have to decide >> whether to "implement" them or do what they think is best. If there >> are disagreements between the reference implementation and language >> spec, or ambiguities in language spec, the spec should certainly be >> fixed! ...So I'm not convinced that converting part >> of the language description into a machine-readable form is >> necessarily for the best. > > I am not suggesting converting part of the spec into code > and dispensing with that part of the document. > > I am suggesting that both the human-readable document and > the reference parser should be officially part of the spec. > If there is inconsistency between them, that is a bug in the spec > which needs to be fixed like any other. Well, sure, but then I wonder what your automated verification program is actually useful for. What purpose does it serve that a Haskell parser independent of the report does not? We can't guarantee it's bug-free, so we can't make any more assurances than a third party could about the correctness of its parsing behaviour. We still have to (and should!) maintain the abstract language description, which may well involve duplicating information: indeed, if the reference parser is /not/ redundant, that's a bug :P I suppose providing a reference parser at least ensures that any modification to Haskell syntax is implementable, and the issues in its implementation will have been considered, but in practice every alteration to the Haskell language from now on is going to be standardising extensions that already exist, so I don't really think this is a priority. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:18 PM, S. Doaitse Swierstra <doaitse at swierstra.net> wrote: > Reading this proposal I think it clearly states my point made earlier: allowing infix specifications everywhere provides unneeded flexibility and unnecessary complexity. > > Ideally I would like to see them even before the module keyword: they state how to read the text that follows, and thus fall in the category of: > > - LANGUAGE pragma's which add sometimes extra syntax > - import's, which extend the name space > > Restricting them to occur only directly after the imports is something I cannot see anyone to object to, and would enable the immediate correct parsing of all expressions to follow. > > Doaitse > This is an interesting idea! It would certainly solve a fair few issues with fixity parsing, but I worry that we'd lose a lot of consistency, and/or gain a lot of redundancy - we want operators to associate the same way in every file, but people will have different ideas about which way to associate what (I like associating $ to the left, but I generally don't for the sake of my readers' sanity). Plus, like explicit import lists, I suspect that a list of all operators used in the program, potentially some distance away from their usage site, is going to invite subtle errors when people forget to add one, redundancy when people forget to remove one, and noise in patch files when people do the right thing. So as much as I want to see Haskell's infix syntax simplified, I'm not sure this is a practical way to do so. I once had the idea of having fixity determined in some sense by the name of the operator - long operators binding more tightly/loosely than short ones, or an angle bracket in the right place changing the associativity - but I don't think there's any satisfactory way of doing that either.


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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Daviess County clerk refuses to grant same-sex marriage licenses
At the end of a tumultuous three days, hundreds of same-sex couples are still getting marriage licenses. The Indiana attorney general is still waiting on a motion to at least temporarily stop same-sex couples from getting licenses, but there's still no ruling from the Federal Appeals Court in Chicago.
Of the state's 92 counties, only four are refusing to issue licenses. Most are waiting for clarification from the state, a county judge or county attorney. But in southwest Indiana, the Daviess County clerk is refusing.
Sherri Healy is standing her ground on religious principles, and she's facing opposition from within her own family.
Kevin Fyffe of Indianapolis and his partner Doug have been a committed couple for nine years. The only reason that is newsworthy today is because his sister is Sherri Healy.
"We are going to disagree on a lot of things. We always have and still do," said Fyffe, who understands where Healy is coming from. He says she was raised in a very religious family.
"I did state I feel like our country was founded on the biblical principal that marriage is between one man and one woman and I felt I would stand on that principal until I get an order to do otherwise," said Healy.
These two have split ways since a family photo where young Kevin sits in his older sister Sherri's lap.
We asked Kevin if he thought his sisters stand would hurt her politically.
"She is going to finish out her term, she said a long time ago, that 2014 would be end of her term and she plans to move to Haiti to do missionary work in Haiti," he said.
Even though Fyffe sees the world much differently than the older sister, who held him in her lap for this childhood church picture, he doesn't hold any animosity either.
"She puts her Christianity to work. She doesn't just talk the talk. She walks the walk. And I respect her for that," he said.
"That didn't surprise me. I respect her religious convictions. I was probably more disappointed in the fact that she is not following the new law of the land," said Kevin. "I thought she would still hold her nose and do it."
Meantime, for Daviess County same-sex couples hoping to take advantage of Judge Richard Young's ruling this week, it's been frustrating.
"I feel totally discriminated against," said Colvin, whose efforts to marry his partner of 13 years have been rebuffed by the County Clerk. "Friends in Evansville, Terra Haute and indianapolis are calling and they are like we just got married and I am like here I am in Washington, Indiana and I can't get married."
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In fact, Fyffe was in touch with Healy about it.
"I sent her a text message because I had seen a map online of the different counties that were honoring the ruling and those that were not. And I saw Daviess County was not," he explained. "She responded immediately. No, she was not, until the state ordered her to."
"Until we get a direct order we are not issuing them at this time. So until I am ordered from the state, until my circuit court judge orders me to do it I don't feel like I can," Healy said.


text:
Do You Think I Am Pregnant?
Share and vote on pregnancy symptoms
Blue veins anyone???
I am 29, DH 28, TTC for 11 months. During my 2WW in May, for the first time EVER, I had blue veins. As you know, during the 2WW, gas= twinge?! Getting up to pee in the night?! PREGNANT! BBS sore?! PREGNANT! Neck hurts?! PREGNANT! So when I saw blue veins winding a ROAD MAP over my chest to my pelvis, even my legs and hands, I was dancing on my head, knowing for CERTAIN I was pregnant (the veins were so obvious that DH could see them through a white tank I was wearing). Unfortunately, I was NOT pregnant (perhaps a result of dancing on my head??? Okay, not funny...)
3 months later -
9 dpo, the blue veins are back. Earlier this time. In May, they didn't show up until 13 dpo. (None in June or July). No other major symptoms...VERY vivid dreams since 6 dpo (the dreams are nothing new for me, so I can't really consider them a symptom, but there they are). "Buzzing nipples" since
8 dpo - that's a very WEIRD feeling, like a bug in my shirt.... Insistent headache and stuffiness since 4 dpo (allergies, though, I think, or the pressure system created by Hurricane Irene...)
Basically, I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced these blue veins, out of the blue (haha), and NO BFP!
Hey, when i was first
Hey, when i was first pregnant i had very blue veins all over my boobs and pelvic area. I got mine at around 8 weeks though. not sure when there ment to happen but they must be a good sign :) Any change is a good sign. when are yoou taking your test? Good luck! Hope its your month xx
Well, I was going to wait until I hopefully missed my period...However, I couldn't help myself and tested this morning - negative. Still early though. I promised myself I absolutely AM NOT going to test again until I have missed AF!!! Woke up this morning with cold symptoms - never thought I would be excited over a runny nose...! Thanks so much for your response!
Well, I was going to wait until I hopefully missed my period...However, I couldn't help myself and tested this morning - negative. Still early though. I promised myself I absolutely AM NOT going to test again until I have missed AF!!! Woke up this morning with cold symptoms - never thought I would be excited over a runny nose...! Thanks so much for your response!
Im the same! Im now 11dpo and
Im the same! Im now 11dpo and i only just ordered my test online yesterday, means i cant test like crazy an make myself upset. Its so hard the 2ww! My af is due sunday so hope she doesnt come to visit! Its good to hear you have a cold :) I also have a cold :D My nose is running like crazy and i nvere get that when in ill. So fingers crossed its a good sign. I asked my nurse about things and she said not to worry about having no symptoms as most people dont. Dont know if i like that. Its nice hope to wonder what every twinge is. Whens af due for you? Hope you get your bfp! :)
I had blue veins I noticed
I had blue veins I noticed last month before AF. I think I was about 13 dpo or around there. But I too have noticed them early. I'm about 7 dpo now and I have large blue veins along with a whole bunch of tiny blood vessels showing up. Very strange. Good luck!
I'm due to start tomorrow. I
I'm due to start tomorrow. I've had some cramps off and on, feel like AF is coming. If she doesn't, then I'm testing Sunday morning :) Good luck to both of us!!!
It's just so weird - Last
It's just so weird - Last night, I had one vein that was so dark, running next to my nipple, it looked like if I were to touch it, I would be able to feel the vein. But this morning, it's faint again. So confusing! Good luck to you, as well!
I get blue veins around 5-7
I get blue veins around 5-7 wks pregnancy till this past year. I've noticed I get them about a week before I start on my breasts, thighs, shoulders across my chest and lower abdomen. Had this with and without pregnancy so I've marked that off my list of symptoms. High hopes for you and everyone on here in the tww. Baby dust****
I am 14 DPO and have had blue veins running in my boobs since 8 or 9 DPO. I have only been off the pill ofr 3 months but never got these symptoms last 2 months. Im 29 days since last period now so i can test this week. I'm nervous and hope i am...what do you think? I've also had period type crapming for about 3 days now.
I have.2 big blue beins and a small 1 on my right boob Could this be a pregnancy symptom ? I'm due on the 28th Hope sum1 cud Let me no what sort of symptoms they get just so I no I have got a little girl 1 half I dint bother about any the symptoms then but now I'm tryin I wud like to no thanks a lot ! X
Blue Veins
I BD'd a few days before my ovulation date. about a day or two after ovulation I started having sore/tender breasts. At about 6 or 7 dpo (can't remember I didn't put it in my calendar) I noticed the blue roadmap like veins running all over my chest and down my breasts. My breasts have been super heavy feeling, extremely sore especially the nipples-they are at a stinging/tingling feeling. I am actually sleeping in a bra they hurt so bad (I'm not well endowed on the breast area so I don't need to sleep with a bra on). this morning (about 10 dpo currently) I noticed the blue veins are really prominent through my nipples as well and I can see little branches off the bigger veins-they are running up my shoulders and even on my hands. I haven't noticed the blue veins since I was pregnant with my first child 7.5 years ago...hoping this is a good sign. I have also been having the "cramping" felling in my lower abdomen (not like AF cramps), crazy emotions, one minute happy the next I'm crying. Craving dairy-kind of weird for me, but I remember I ate/drank a lot of dairy when I was prego the first time. Terrible sleep pattern, also tired for no reason. Have been testing since about 7 dpo (too early I know, couldn't help myself), and again this morning all were BFN's :( grrr....still not due for AF for 4 more days. CM is also going back and forth between creamy and watery. I felt like AF came more than a handful of times within the last week, and its nothing but clear CM....hoping for a BFP!! Going to test again in the morning! Wish me luck! Baby dust to all!!
veins in boobs
I've come up with dark blue veins on my chest and boobs...! Really Noticeable I've never noticed before.. Sore nipples but not to bad.. Very tired for the past couple of weeks... I come on the 17th for 2days quite light which isn't normal for me.. Quite confused as I'm on the pill patch... Any ideas ?
Blue veins
I'm a road map of dark blue veins too! IThought dehydration but they are back again. Hoping for a BFP - AF due in 7 days. I'm either pregnant or a HUGE hypochondriac! I know I'm def. a POAS aholic- desperately trying to wait till AF is late to test again.
Oh I got all excited thinking
Oh I got all excited thinking they were a good sign I'm headed towards a bfp in a few days cos I have the blue veins in my nips, boobs, shoulders and knees some even on the tops on my calves. By now Im guessing they are just another pms symptom sent to mess with me. I want a bfp sooo bad.
deal with it
See a DR. and stop asking people on the internet.
hello my husband and i have been trying to conceive our 2nd child I've been off of my depovera shot for 7mnths now and have bttc, this month i was due to start the 4th i am now 7days late, with dark veins on breast.nipples and pelvic region along with white discharge & hip/back pain didn't have any of this my first time around so please HELPPPP! too scared to test & get a (-)
Hey girlies..... well i am feeling pretty confused right now, last tuesday was my fertile week bearing in mind i finished my period last monday. I had unprotected sex from tuesday to sunday. sunday was suppose to be my ovulation day, today when i woke up and went to the loo and wiped there was light pink blood on the tissue at this point i didnt know where to put myself... this afternoon i have been experiencing mild cramping in abdominal area and then when the cramping stopped i had sharp twinges above my pelvic bone which has now gone, then i experienced headaches tiredness and eating loads its having my life.... could anyone please have a good intake on this and be very kindly to give me some advice on what you guys think...... baby dust to all!
might be or not
Well girls I had unprotected sex on feb 10 we use pulled out method and then on the 26 we had unprotected sex again and he pulled out but he said he thinks he finish inside me , ok so on the 28 I got my "period" it was light pink but on the 1st was normal at night it went away and on the 2nd it was normal again then at night it went away on the 3rd itwas gone then 4th just a little then 5th gone confusing I know .. but anyways lately I've been bloated, cramping well like Sharp pain on the waist , abdominal area, my back and I eat just a little and I get very full I can't sleep on my stomache .. oh and ok on my breast I have only one blue vein all my life but all of a sudden I get all these blue veins on my hands, arms, sides ,legs, I'm very tired ... Can I be pregnant ?
So I O'd on the 9th, BDed on the 8th and 9th, and now I am a week out from AF. This is my first month actively trying so trying not to get too excited, but thought i'd share what i've experienced. 1-5 days past ovulation no symptoms. 6 days past ovulation, stuffed up, runny nose, heachache. 7 days past O, constant headache, extreme thirst, dry throat, exhaustion. Today I am 8 DPO and I have massive blue veins on my breasts, no tenderness, but boy are the girls large. Continued thirst, slight headache and soar throat. BD to everyone!!!!
Let's hope!
We can only hope for that BFP for all! I believe I am about 12dpo right now and I too have the veins on my breasts... Only at night though, so weird. Tried to describe them to hubby this morning and the best I could think of was that it was like my veins got injected with neon dye lol. I don't have them anywhere else on my body that have stood out and for whatever reason it's only at night. So far I've had either a plethora of symptoms or just some bad timing to mess with my brain lol. When hubby and I first baby danced for the big O day, the following day I had a migraine and nausea and slept all day and night. I'm prone to headaches but not usually ever migraines to that intensity. There have been a few moments where I will catch a whiff of something that no one around me smells but before I can put my finger on what it is, it's gone. I had such bad gas pains (I'm assuming here, they were weird pains but I don't know how else to describe them) I called into work this last week. Along with some constipation, for being someone who is extremely regular, this was a red flag as there has been no change in my diet. Usually before af comes, I get cramps the night before and immediately start the next morning. I've had on and off cramping for three days. Some days its been longer lengthened spurts than others, like today was for such a brief moment I barely noticed. My nipples have had some tingly feelings at times but I haven't really considered it because I have piercings, feel like it's hard to tell what the cause is for sure there. So far this is unlike my pre af cycles in the past. I have become obsessed with baby stuff, I know it is most likely all coincidental and have tried to stop myself from obsessing, easier said than done! I have tested twice (9dpo and 12dpo) as I was too impatient, didn't even wait until the morning lol but they were both BFN.
Babies everywhere and pregnant friends, they come in threes usually and I know of two so far so I'm really hoping that this just may be my month but I'm trying not to get my hopes up, reading into every little sign lol. Keyword... Trying.
I'm 15 and had sex on the 3rd
I'm 15 and had sex on the 3rd of this month. My period was suppost to be like 4-6 days after. I missed it. Blue veins are starting to appear on my chest and breasts. I'm having other symptoms too. Also, I'm on the Depo shot and was suppost to get it retaken the 27th of April. I need help .
I'm 15 and had sex on the 3rd
I'm 15 and had sex on the 3rd of this month. My period was suppost to be like 4-6 days after. I missed it. Blue veins are starting to appear on my chest and breasts. I'm having other symptoms too. Also, I'm on the Depo shot and was suppost to get it retaken the 27th of April. I need help .
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Recent "Am I Pregnant" Stories
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Saturday, August 26, 2017
- Please help!!!! 4 votes
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- 2 days late 11 votes
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- FEELING DIFFERENT THAN USUAL 14 votes
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- I hate the disappointment. Help? 8 votes
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Sunday, August 20, 2017
- I had my period for a few hours 7 votes


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State Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen asked the Wisconsin Supreme Court to reconsider taking up the voter ID law at the end of summer. Van Hollen thought it worthwhile to try to ask a second time for the court to take up the case despite the fact the composition of members has not changed.
Since the courts are bound by Wisconsin's Constitution, not the politics of whoever is the given attorney general at the time, Van Hollen's request is, in a way, disrespectful to the role of the judicial branch. It is like a child who keeps stomping their feet for something until they get their way. But maybe, just maybe, if he adds a pretty please and a few $20s, he might get his way this time.


text:
NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- This is a review of Subaru's first hybrid car, the XV Crosstrek. It carries a base price of $26,820, which includes destination.
But first, let's consider Subaru's amazing success in the U.S market. In the month of July 2014 alone, Subaru sold 45,714 cars in the U.S. market, up 27% over 2013. That's approximately 100 times as many cars as Tesla (TSLA) sold in the U.S. market in July.
Year-to-date (July), Subaru sold 283,722 cars in the U.S. market, so it is on track to reach approximately 500,000 cars for the full year. That is approximately 30x as many cars as Tesla is expected to sell in the U.S. market this year, and almost 15 times as many as Tesla is expected to sell globally.
Read More: Warren Buffett's Top 10 Dividend Stocks
Considering that Subaru is significantly more profitable than Tesla, does this mean that Subaru should be awarded a market cap of at least 30 times Tesla's fully diluted $37 billion, or approximately $1.1 trillion, making Subaru the most valuable company in the world by a factor of more than double?
Probably not. With a Tesla selling for on average $106,000, Subarus go for approximately one quarter that amount. So perhaps a market cap a quarter of $1.1 trillion is more appropriate, i.e., $275 billion.
In terms of growth rate in the U.S. market, Subaru sales were up 16% for the first half of 2014. In contrast, Tesla's U.S. sales were down 26% for the first half of 2014.
In the U.S., Subaru carved out a niche among the prototypical outdoors person in the Colorado Rockies, thanks to its standard always-on four wheel drive system in cars available at reasonable prices. In recent years, Subaru also seems to have taken over SAAB's old role in cornering other nice demographics such as college professors in Boston and militant lesbians in Vermont.
Analyzing the Subaru Crosstrek XV's body, the best way to describe it is that it's basically a smaller version of Subaru's two more popular models: Forester and Outback. Subaru looks to sell approximately 70,000 of these Crosstrek XVs in the U.S. this year, or twice as many cars as Tesla looks to sell world-wide this year.
Read More: 10 Stocks George Soros Is Buying
Thanks to the Crosstrek's elevated height compared to a regular car, it is very easy to get in an out of it. The base model I drove had a cloth seat, and it has very soft cushions for bottom and back alike; it basically feels like you're sitting in a plush sofa. I like it!


text:
What this DOJ "white paper" did was to force people to confront Obama's assassination program without emotionally manipulative appeal to some cartoon Bad Guy Terrorist (Awlaki). That document never once mentioned Awlaki. Instead – using the same creepily clinical, sanitized, legalistic language used by the Bush DOJ to justify torture, renditions and warrantless eavesdropping – it set forth the theoretical framework for empowering not just Obama, but any and all presidents, to assassinate not just Anwar Awlaki, but any citizens declared in secret by the president to be worthy of execution. Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee wrote that the DOJ memo "should shake the American people to the core", while Harvard Law Professor Noah Feldman explained "the revolutionary and shocking transformation of the meaning of due process" ushered in by this memo and said it constituted a repudiation of the Magna Carta.
In doing so, this document helpfully underscored the critical point that is otherwise difficult to convey: when you endorse the application of a radical state power because the specific target happens to be someone you dislike and think deserves it, you're necessarily institutionalizing that power in general. That's why political leaders, when they want to seize extremist powers or abridge core liberties, always choose in the first instance to target the most marginalized figures: because they know many people will acquiesce not because they support that power in theory but because they hate the person targeted. But if you cheer when that power is first invoked based on that mentality – I'm glad Obama assassinated Awlaki without charges because he was a Bad Man! – then you lose the ability to object when the power is used in the future in ways you dislike (or by leaders you distrust), because you've let it become institutionalized.


text:
Macaroni salad catalina dressing peas corn
Recipes / Macaroni salad catalina dressing peas corn (1000+)
Auntie's Luau Potato And Macaroni Salad (Adapted)
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Macaroni Salad (Adapted), ingredients: 1 lb Salad, 1/2 pkt Frzn peas, 10 ounce pkg, 1/2
Auntie's Luau Potato And Macaroni Salad
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Macaroni Salad, ingredients: 5 lb Potatoes, salad, minced fine, 2 lb Peas, frzn, 3 can
Crab Macaroni Salad
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Macaroni Salad, ingredients: 3 c. Cooked macaroni, 1/2 c. Frzn peas, (thawed only till ice
Macaroni Salad with Cheese & Cilantro
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macaroni salad
The Perfect Macaroni Salad
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The Perfect Macaroni Salad Based on Olive Macaroni Salad Pour dressing over macaroni
Macaroni Salad w/ Bacon #BaconMonth
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bacon to my macaroni salad. Macaroni Salad w/ Bacon Ingredients for the dressing: 1/2 cup
Victorias Luncheon Meat Macaroni Salad Recipe
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Macaroni Salad Luncheon Meat Macaroni Salad Recipe is a flavorful macaroni salad
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St. Patrick's Day, or just search on Corned Beef and Cabbage to find all the recipes you
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Cooks.com - Recipes - Easy Macaroni Salad
1. Prepare salad dressing according to ... Good Seasons to macaroni; toss well. ... of French dressing, 1/2 cup or more of Catalina dressing and garlic ...
This is a robust and yummy taco salad. Lots of beans in this one - pinto and kidney - as well as avocado. Toss with corn chips and a Catalina dressing.
... together with two kinds of cheese, purple kidney beans, Thousand Island dressing and a generous helping of corn chips to create a kaleidoscopic ...
The French dressing is cooked up with the ground beef, beans, and taco seasoning. Then it 's poured over the other salad fixings - lettuce, tomatoes, Cheddar cheese ...
Spicy Tex-Mex Salad - All Recipes
This is an unusual salad that everyone in my office loves. I get requests for it time and time again. ... bottle Catalina salad dressing. 1 (16 ounce) package corn chips ...
Sue's Taco Salad - All Recipes
This is a great dish for pot-lucks. It's easy, and can be made in advance. Add dressing just before serving. ... corn tortilla chips instead of nacho ones, and catalina dressing ...
Messy Taco Salad - All Recipes
A wonderful picnic, potluck or 3-day dinner. Quick and easy and ... Our dressing is half Italian and half Catalina and can be added at the last minute so it does not become too ...


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Join and browse our exclusive open discussion forums and talk about whatever you like.
Write a Letter to this Company
I wanted to bring your attention to the problem I had with your company and its practises.
Two weeks ago, I took a phone survey from the Vortech company. A week later, I was told I had "won" a raffle that included - a Vortech vacuum, its components and a cruise pass. I was very skeptical, but asked to clarify that I had indeed *won a Vortech vacuum*. The woman insisted I had and congratulated me. All I had to do to receive the vacuum was watch a 30 minute presentation in my home.
I was still wary, but since I had looked Vortech up on the web, and they seemed legit, I made an appointment for an in-home demo.
Today, I had the demo. Chuck, the man who came to demo the vacuum, took almost an hour to show it and gave me my "prizes" - cheap steak knives and a few "Swiffer"-like clean up cloths.
As he was cleaning up to leave, he asked me whether I would like to purchase the vacuum for $2500+. I said no, I thought I had won it in a "raffle". He just shrugged and said, "We like to keep our vacuums, ma'am. Heh." He left, leaving me frustrated that I had wasted an hour without getting any type of worthwhile compensation.
I phoned customer service directly afterwards and spoke to the same woman (Jennifer, I believe her name is) I had spoken to who told me I had "won" the raffle. She told me no one had ever said I "won" a vacuum and that "one of the new girls must have said it wrong". It was SHE who had called me originally!!! I told her angrily I would boycott her company and to take me off any mailing list. She promptly hung up on me.
As a result of this, I will do everything I can to avoid buying your products in the future, and I'll urge others to support other companies as well.
Here's what I'd like you to do about this: I would like Vortech to stop using vague language and bait and switch techniques to try and get people to buy their products. I would also like at least an apology from the company for their rude customer service and shady sales procedures.
Let me thank you in advance for your prompt response to this matter. Please contact me if you have any questions about my letter.
I bought my Vortech Force in 2000 and it is still awesome today in2016. I have never had and issue with it. My Son had bad allergiesand it was helpful to have a machine that didn't blow dirt back out. I have no issue with the machine and at the time none with how I washandled in the demonstration process. I did get some steak knives butI was referred from a friend I knew that had bought a machine.
The presentation was good, but the product is amazing. It isincredible the filtration it has and what it does for allergies. Wenotice a difference in the air quality inside our home and the deepcleaning the vortech does. With the warranty and extras that come withit, we truly feel like we have invested in equipment that will lead toa better quality of life for years to come.
I have nothing but positive to say, and its not very often i take timeto post something.
some guy knocked on my door today and said he was with a new store atwestgate in glendale az, store name Vortech Froce. he wore a shirtthat said vortech force on it. he said they were giving away freebottles of purex laundry soap as a promotion for their store. he saidthe store sold appliances. he wanted to know how many people live inmy home, if i own the home or rent it, and then said he would put medown for two bottles of purex, and that they would be dropped offtuesday, although he had the purex bottles n his hand.
what the heck??
he also said he was going door to door to all the residents of myneighborhood, which is miles and miles away from westgate (at least25), and he parked his white suv in my driveway. then he backed outand drove away and didn't go to any other houses in my neighborhood. idon't know what this is all about, but it seems sort of suspicious.itmakes me wonder if my landlord is going into foreclosure and the bankis checking out the house??? hahahaaaaa!!!!!
brian n. june 15 09. we have just had a home trial, of the vortechforce. it is a remarkable product, and dave the sales rep. was verypolite and helpful, and did not promise anything we did not get. weare very pleased with the product, there is nothing for nothing inthis world,SATISFIED CUSTOMER.
I recently purchased a votech vacuum, and was surprised to read someof these emails. I love my vortech, and didn't feel pressured. Maybethese people who complain about there parents buying a vacuum are moreconcerened that their inhertance is being spent rather then theirparents having a clean and healthier home.
I too have had an extremely bad experience with Vortech Force people.Like Elisa my name was entered into a draw and when choosen I was toldthat, although I had not won their grand prixe, which was nevermentioned, I did when second prize of a choice between a set of steakknives and a vacation package. A vacation package as second prize,Hummm. That's unusual. What was first prize? I wondered. I told Kim,who was the one who called me, that if I had to sit through ademonstration of their vacuum cleaner and then buy the stupid thing toclaim my prize, I wasn't interested in since I have been down thatroad before with Kirby and Firfax. She said no, that that was ok, Ididn't need to have the demo, I would get my prize because she wantedme to remember the name Vortech Force. All she had to do was figureout a way to get it to me. Something else that left me wondering.After a week and a half and nothing I started calling their office toenquire as to where my vacation package was. I made several calls overthe course of a week and got no reply. Finally I call last Friday andleft a message stating tht I wanted myh prize and I was definitelygoing to remember Vortech Force, but not in a good light. That night Igot a rather disturbing call from Dave from the local office and heproceeded to call me all kinds of names including idiot and asshole,and told me I wasn't goint to get the prize because I hadn't had thedemo. When I told him that Kim, his associate I presume, said that Iwould regardless, he called me a liar and told me to Fuck off and goto hell and I was a fucking asshole and a moron and on and on and on.When I tried to tell him that that kind of language coming fromsomeone in business was unaceptable, he continued his tirade andinsults. Finally he hung up. I called back twice and was treated tomore insults. When I told him during the last call that I was going tocomplain to the BBB and other venues, and that I had looked up VortechForce on Googel and seen the growing list of complaints, I wasn'tsurprised. He told me those were all lies from people who had axes togrind and I was a fool to believe what I read. He also told me I coulddo whatever I wanted that he wasn't concerned.
I have not spoken to this person since nor do I want to, and if thisis the kind of people Vortech employ to sell their product, then theyhad better close up shop and go away. It's disgusting, unforgivable,and rude.
I have made complaints to our BBB and Consumer Watch Groups as well aswritten to the newspapers, and I'm considering a class action lawsuitbecause I see that I am not the only person who has had trouble withthis company or its reps.
I would like to see this company taken to task about their tactics andtheir reps. I'd like to see them squashed like a bug on the road. I'dlike to see Dave and Kim, put out of business and their dealershipclosed. I am not interested in appologies from these people or thecompany nor do I care about the prize I should have got and waspromised. I just want everyone to know what kind of company it is andthe kind of people it has representing them. It's sure not the kind ofcompany I would want to buy a product from. I would like to see theminvestigated by federal agencies with the notion of shutting them downonce and for all. I would like everyone who has had a bad experiencewith Vortech and it's people to make it public knowledge. This is theonly way we can get results.
I definitely recommend the VORTECH VACUUM.
In reading the letter from Elisa W. I just wanted to say that Ihave owned a Vortech Vacuum cleaner for the past 4 years and have beenvery happy with all of their products and services.
I was initially approached over the phone the same way as Elisa,with a phone survey ect and then was called a few weeks later, wherethe company offered me a free vacation package for watching thedemonstration. At the time I did not think I was in the market for anew vacuum, but after my husband and I watched the demo, we agreedthat the Vortech definitely worked better than the Kenmore and theBissell we already had, and so decided to purchase the Vortech. It hasbeen great for pet hair and my husband doesn't suffer anymore from theallergies that used to drive him crazy.
Service has been great as well. We can get filters for it easilyfrom a vacuum store in our neighborhood or order them online, andother than the fact that my daughter vacuumed up a sock that got stuckin the power head, we haven't had any problems with it at all.
I also know of a few other people who own this same vacuum. Ihave asked, and they are happy all the way around with the wholeprocess. I should say that I did not get a chance to use the vacationpackage Vortech gave me due to work issues.
I think that Elisa misunderstood the girl when she got the phonecall from the company. It doesn't make any sense to me that Vortechwould just give a vacuum AND a cruise for helping with a survey.
I was told that I would get the vacation package for watching thedemonstration. It was very clear. I want to also say that Dave, thesales rep who came into my home was polite and courteous. He did getalot of dirt from the carpet (which was fairly new)that obviously myvacuums were'nt getting. It was terrible. I like a nice clean home.What's the point of vacuuming if the dirt isn't getting picked up?Also, I now don't have to dust AFTER I vacuum because this doesn'tblow the dust around, it stays in the vacuum. I am saying all thisbecause people are always quick to critisize products but not everreally praise them and so to those people looking for a good vacuum Ihighly recommend the Vortech.


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16th Birthday Cake
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Your sixteenth birthday is coming up, and your friends are pushing you to throw an exciting sweet sixteen birthday party. But what would a sweet sixteen be without a sugar-filled birthday cake? That's why it's time to grab your apron and head to the kitchen to whip up a special birthday cake in this fun online cooking game for kids! Follow the instructions and stick to the recipe to concoct this delightful dessert. Combine your favorite ingredients, then toss the batter into the oven to bake this tasty dessert. Once the cake is ready, be creative and layer on your favorite toppings to complete the cake and make it look gorgeous. Not only will your birthday cake taste great, but it'll look fabulous, too! Don't forget to top the cake with sixteen candles, and maybe add one for good luck!
Follow the in-game instructions and use your mouse to interact.


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Join ForgeCafeForge Cafe Tournament now doing sign ups! Check it out! My Accounts:Youtube | Halocharts | ForgeHub | MLD
Love this shot =DGreat pose =D10
This is actually really sick.
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Positive vibes.
I really think that this shot deserves Bungie Favorites!10*:)
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maybe that's her way of saying she's interested in you? maybe she likes it rough? only half joking.
Place her under 'citizens arrest.'
In most states, you can physically detain someone for assault.
Demand that the responding officer/s give you a 'citizens arrest form' to fill out and sign.
Then they will arrest her on your behalf.
Fascist's are Magicians...They can make our Property, our Freedom's & even our Children 'Disappear'.
maybe she has a crush on you and in her own demented way does that to seek your attention as kids do by playing tag games? what did she say to you as to why she did it?? what did you say to her?
best wishes
gun control is being able to hit your target
she sounds bitter and mentally challenged as well as physically challenged hope you don't run into her again or wait hope she don't run into YOU again!
best wishes and i would inquire at the pd why they didn't take this seriously
gun control is being able to hit your target
Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws


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Region 6-A Basketball Tournament opening round moved to Friday
The Region 6-A boys and girls basketball tournaments set to begin on Thursday will now begin on Friday per a press release from Darlington.
The tournament has already seen a few changes with the brackets being pared down to only the top four boys and girls teams from the original full bracket.
Trion's boys, the top seed from the west subregion, are now set to play Fellowship Christian on Friday at Trion. Darlington's boys are scheduled to play North Cobb Christian. Gordon Lee's boys are scheduled to play St. Francis and Whitefield is scheduled to play Excel Christian.
In the girl's tournament, Gordon Lee is set to open the action at Darlington against Mt. Paran. Darlington plays Fellowship Christian. Southwest Atlanta Christian is scheduled to play Mt. Pisgah and St. Francis is set to play Excel Christian.
The semifinals and finals of the tournament are now set for Saturday and Monday at Darlington.


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Ronald Sider: Radical Activist or Humble Leader?
- by
- October 18, 2013
- Ebooks
Ronald J. Sider has lived an openly modest life: he raised his family in an old duplex in a rundown Philadelphia neighborhood, most of his clothes are from thrift stores, his house is heated by an aging wood stove, and he scavenges for the wood himself around his neighborhood.
From the outset, you would never guess that Sider launched Evangelicals for Social Action (ESA) almost 30 years ago, or that he helped kick-start a movement to get the church involved in global poverty, or that he wrote a book several decades ago on social action that still riles up people from both ends of the political spectrum. Not to mention, he's published more than 30 books and 100 articles, many of which examine the importance of caring for others as part of biblical discipleship.
As an evangelical pastor and author whose outspoken views on the church and social justice have been making waves in the Christian community for decades, Sider is considered both controversial and revolutionary, radical and inspirational.
Social justice pioneer
Sider was born in 1935 and grew up on a small farm in Ontario, Canada. After graduating from the University of Waterloo and Yale University with his theological degree and PhD in history, Sider accepted a position to help launch an inner-city branch of Messiah College in Philadelphia. Submerging himself in urban life put social issues at the forefront of both his career and lifestyle: he witnessed poverty, racism, and economic injustice on a regular basis.
In 1973, Sider played a major role in the Chicago Declaration of Evangelical Social Concern—a highly-publicized, nonpartisan statement advocating political and social involvement from evangelical Christians. Sider later wrote an article in which he said that the more money people make, the more they should donate. The heart of his message addressed world poverty by asking people to spend less on themselves in order to give more to the poor.
Sider published Rich Christians in the Age of Hunger in 1977, selling more than 400,000 copies—a feat for any book on social justice. Since releasing this book, reactions to Sider have run the gamut from inspired to enraged: his book was hailed by Christianity Today as one of the 100 most influential books on religion in the twentieth century, while Christian Reconstructionist David Chilton wrote Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators as a critique.
A divisive voice
Politically speaking, Sider is both praised and vilified by both parties, yet he aligns himself with neither. On most issues he sways toward the left, but when it comes to homosexuality and abortion, he's a clear advocate for conservative thought. Regardless of his political affiliations, his stance on one issue holds strong: poverty is a moral issue that society must seek to end. His ministry is based on the idea that Jesus wants the church to enthusiastically devote itself to both evangelism and social work.
"It is time for evangelical preachers to label today's gross inequality what it is: SIN. If we believe what the Bible says about God's concern for the poor; if we believe what the Bible says about justice; then we must denounce the gross inequality of opportunity and income in our country today as blatantly sinful." —Ronald J. Sider
Whether you agree or disagree with Sider's beliefs, he has—inarguably—had a massive effect on the way Christians view social justice. If you're interested in learning more about Sider and his theology, here are some of his most influential works:
- Good News and Good Works: A Theology for the Whole Gospel
- The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience
- Churches That Make a Difference: Reaching Your Community with Good News and Good Works
- Just Generosity: A New Vision for Overcoming Poverty in America
How do you feel Ron Sider has affected modern Christian thought? Let us know in the comments.


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Korea's Unique Historic Opportunity
Op-ed in the Chosun Ilbo
© Chosun Ilbo
Political developments within the United States suggest that Korea has a unique historic opportunity to achieve a preferred trade and indeed overall relationship with the United States that is unlikely to be available to any of its main competitors for a prolonged period of time. This will be realized if Korea can conclude its negotiations for a comprehensive and balanced free trade agreement (FTA) with the United States within the next two to three months so that the deal can be approved by Congress under the "fast track" provisions of President George W. Bush's current trade promotion authority. Since that authority is unlikely to be extended when it expires next July, or even when a new administration takes office in the United States in 2009, Korea's key competitors such as Japan and Taiwan will probably be unable to receive similar treatment in the foreseeable future and thus Korea will achieve preferred status for a considerable period.
The Korean economy would gain substantially from an FTA with the United States. Studies by both our Peterson Institute for International Economics and several analysts in Korea suggest an expansion over time of several percentage points for the Korean economy and a significant boost to Korean per capita income, especially by increasing efficiency in the services sector. An FTA would bring considerable additional investment to Korea while a failure of the negotiations would reinforce Korea's image as being inhospitable for foreign firms. The agreement would reduce Korea's rapidly growing dependence on China as well as its traditional reliance on Japan. Perhaps most importantly, an FTA would provide Korea with an important insurance policy against future protectionist measures by the United States. Significant adjustment measures will be required in several sectors, notably agriculture and a few specific industries, but the overall payoff will be quite large.
Two critical aspects of the FTA issue may not have been fully recognized, however. First, the time available to complete the negotiations and thus to seize these opportunities is very limited. President Bush's negotiating authority will expire on July 1, and his negotiators must complete the talks at least 90 days prior to that time to assure timely congressional action without amendments. Korea has a major interest in avoiding congressional reopening of the agreement so completion by March is imperative.
The sweeping victory of the Democrats in the recent congressional elections underlines the importance of this conclusion. All congressional votes on major trade issues for the past twelve years have been excruciatingly close, and the antiglobalization sentiments of many of the new members suggest that the new Congress is highly unlikely to give President Bush further negotiating authority. All unfinished negotiations, such as those with Thailand, will thus fail. Korea should make every possible effort to "get in under the wire."
This evolving sea change in American politics could in fact preclude all additional trade agreements for a prolonged period. Continued Democratic control of the Congress beyond 2008, perhaps for a considerable period, may alone be enough to prevent revival of trade promotion authority and any new trade pacts. A Democratic victory in the next Presidential election now seems quite likely and would reinforce such a prospect, either because the new leadership will simply reject additional globalization of the US economy for a time or because it would insist on conditions, especially with respect to labor standards, that would be unpalatable to potential future partners.
This outlook suggests that Korea's major trade competitors will be unable to achieve the same preferential access to the US market that Korea can obtain by timely completion of the current FTA talks. Japan will almost certainly ask for its own FTA, or economic partnership agreement, if the Korea-United States talks succeed but there will be no authority under which the United States could undertake such an initiative. Similar considerations hold for China, Taiwan, and the Southeast Asian countries except for Singapore, which already has an agreement, and possibly Malaysia if it too can complete its present talks by the looming deadline.
Hence Korea faces a truly historic opportunity to achieve, and maintain for a prolonged period, a significant degree of preferential access to the US market and an enhanced overall relationship with the United States. Korea should make every effort to grasp this unique prospect by successfully concluding a comprehensive and balanced FTA with the United States within the next two to three months.


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Michigan real estate has faced a unique set of challenges given the recent fluctuations in the U.S. auto market. While the bankruptcies and bailouts of both Chrysler and General Motors have had a dramatic and far-reaching impact on the overall economy, these events also affected real estate prices throughout the state. Despite these unusual forces, the general prices levels, mortgage options and foreclosure procedures are important to understand before participating in the market. Through a thorough review of the various factors that affect Michigan real estate, you should be able to approach the market with confidence.
Michigan is an interesting blend of price levels that ranges from the very high-end to low-income areas. Ann Arbor's college ambience boasts vintage homes that raise the general price level, counteracting the depressed areas of Detroit that are on the other end of the spectrum. The result of this stark dichotomy is that the average price of level across the state is in line with the rest of the country. Overall, the recent average home price within Michigan is between $260,000 and $320,000. As way of reference, the average in both California and New York is upwards of $400,000.
While some experts believe that a recovery within the real estate market on a national level has begun, home prices have fallen by 30% or more in many Michigan neighborhoods. Furthermore, the poverty and devaluation present in Detroit has reached such extreme levels so as to warrant national attention; some reports of "homes" being sold for under $1000 have recently circulated. While these instances may be limited, and the conditions in Detroit are not indicative of conditions in the state as a whole, this anecdotal evidence provides a glimpse of some of the extremes that can be reached.
To counteract some of the affects of the meltdown in the automotive industry, and the resulting economic hardships that have been caused, Michigan has begun offering major tax incentives to technology companies that relocate to the state. The state seems to have multiple goals in making this push, with economic development being the primary objective. Additional goals include working to change the state's image from one of old economy polluter to one of green-friendly tech haven. The Michigan political leadership seems to have taken on the task of trying to become home of the tech corridor of the Midwest.
To this end, the state has deemed this initiative "The Michigan Advantage," and cites the following industries as the primary sources of growth in coming years: alternative energy, automotive engineering, life sciences, homeland security and defense, advanced manufacturing, and film. By focusing their efforts in these areas, the leadership hopes to attract new jobs to the state, and to create jobs for the large number of students that graduate from their universities each year. The important byproduct of this program is that it is already beginning to help with stabilizing prices.
Fixed Rate Mortgages – The 30-year fixed rate mortgage is the most common type of mortgage and is still the preference of many Michigan borrowers. Carrying fixed interest rates for the life of the loan, and occasionally available with maturities of 15 years, these are recourse loans (see the discussion on foreclosure procedures below). Rates in Michigan tend to be competitive with those throughout the Midwest and in line with the rest of the country.
Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARMs) – While almost all ARMs have maturities of 30 years, there are two important time measure of which to be aware: the length of time for which the original rate will remain in effect before the original reset, and how often thereafter the loan can reset. The initial interest rate on this type of loan tends to be lower than those available on a fixed rate loan. This is true because with an adjustable rate, the lender has a degree of protection. If rates in the general market rise, the rate that the lender will receive will reset higher. While there are usually caps, an adjustable rate affords the lender a chance to keep their loans competitive as the market changes. This type of loan is most appropriate for borrowers who believe that rates will remain low or for those who believe that they will move before the ARM is able to reset high enough to make it the more expensive option.
Interest-Only Loans – Once much more common, under an interest-only option, the borrower is only responsible for paying the interest due on the loan. This lasts for a limited period of time – sometimes as long as ten years, while sometimes as short as three. After the initial period, the borrower then must begin making both principal and interest payments. This type of loan has both advantages and disadvantages. On the positive side, by front-loading the amount of interest paid by the borrower, taxes are reduced – interest paid on one's principal residence is tax deductible. On the negative side, once the borrower enters the repayment phase, the monthly payment amount may increase to a level beyond that of what the borrower can afford. Loans like these helped to create much of the subprime problems that caused the real estate bubble to burst. These loans can be an attractive option if they are properly structured, creating an amortization schedule that keeps payments stable over the course of the loan.
Flexible Payment Mortgages – During the days when nobody, lenders included, believed that property values could decline, this was a popular option. With this type of mortgage, the borrower was allowed to skip a number of payments, to make a principal and interest payment, or to make only an interest payment. Mostly eliminated, this option is still occasionally available. The reason lenders, believing that property values could never fall, would make such a loan, is that they assumed that if they were forced to foreclose, their capital was safe.
Home Equity Lines of Credit and Loans (HELOC) – These two options allow a homeowner to borrow money against the value of his or her home. With a line of credit, the loan acts like a credit card that can be drawn upon and repaid on a flexible schedule. A home equity loan functions more like a traditional mortgage, providing the borrower with a single lump sum. These are often used alongside a large conforming mortgage, rather than a jumbo loan (amount greater than $417,000), because the blended rate of the two loans tend to be more attractive.
Under Michigan law, both lenders and borrowers have certain rights and responsibilities in the foreclosure process. While every state has slight differences, most strive to balance the interest of each.
As is the case in most states, legislators in Michigan are regularly looking for ways to both protect their citizens and to ensure orderly lending practices – this is evident from the major push that has been made under the Michigan Advantage campaign. The recent financial crisis has created new pressures to update laws from both the perspective of the lender and from the point of view of the borrower. As a result, homeowners are encouraged to keep on top of changes that may potentially have a dramatic impact on their rights and responsibilities, particularly in case something goes wrong in the lending process – there is no more powerful tool than knowing one's rights. While this information is not comprehensive, it should give one a good baseline to begin a more thorough research process.


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Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, August 8, 2008, 10:04 AM
Town Square
Grass-roots effort mounts to save Middlefield trees
Original post made on Aug 8, 2008
Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, August 8, 2008, 10:04 AM
Comments (39)
a resident of Jordan Middle School
on Aug 8, 2008 at 3:01 pm
i strongly agree that the trees and area need to be preserved as is for safety reasons at the very least. but just to clarify: just over 900 students attend jordan middle school, not 2,000.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 8, 2008 at 3:23 pm
What may be needed is a ballot measure to vote on widening all of Middlefield to 4 lanes N. of Oregon Expressway.
Or making Oregon-Page Mill a full fledged Freeway to Hwy 280. This would benifit the entire city to take traffic off of residential streets. Oregon Expressway has no driveways backing on to it.
a resident of South of Midtown
on Aug 8, 2008 at 10:01 pm
I know of some unemployed tree-sitters from Berkeley in need of work - they work for granola and water and have all the necessary equipment already, including "poop pails."
a resident of Crescent Park
on Aug 10, 2008 at 6:23 am
The planet needs trees a lot more than it needs more road surface.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Aug 10, 2008 at 7:02 am
The person who came out with the idea to widen the road and strip the trip ought to be...well, I don't want the editor to remove my post, so I won't say what should be done to him. This idea is astoundingly stupid. We need more trees and less traffic and we certainly don't need to look like Burbank.
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Aug 10, 2008 at 8:38 am
Palo Alto should ADD green strips to as many streets as possible and remove NONE. The North California Ave section between Middlefield and Embarcadero should be a prime candidate, since it's used by hundreds of students during the school year. The plan to eliminate the landscape strip on Middlefield in order to expand the road is so absurd that initially I thought it was a practical joke. This idea seems like it was taken out of one of Nikoli Gogol's mad and brilliant satires such as 'The Inspector General' or 'A diary of a Madman'.
a resident of South of Midtown
on Aug 10, 2008 at 9:48 am
Trees have a finite life, they can be replaced and grow tall just like the trees that are removed.
a resident of Downtown North
on Aug 10, 2008 at 11:05 am
It appears that Santa Clara County is the only county in the nation with a surplus. It seems like idiotic bureaucrats are straining their little brains to come up with the most inane and stupid rational to spend that surplus. There's just too much money in this Valley, and too much money often has the same effect as too much rain-an excess of weeds.
a resident of Stanford
on Aug 10, 2008 at 11:14 am
The Bush Regime in its extreme cruelty, incompetence, hubrism and corruption, has set unprecedented low standards of same in local governments in the last 8 years. It's the only explanation I have for the utterly ridiculous idea of removing green strips and replacing them with more concrete. My 3 year old little daughter, upon hearing of this nonsense had a perfect reaction:"Why are so many adults so stupid, daddy?"
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Aug 10, 2008 at 1:50 pm
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of College Terrace
on Aug 10, 2008 at 3:50 pm
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 10, 2008 at 3:58 pm
I didn't hear these tree huggers when the Ricky's site was cleared of probably a hundred mature redwoods and other trees or at the JCC site that had another 100 trees and is now probably 95% concrete surface and in a flood zone.
Widening a couple hundred or less for a turning lane is so insufiginant.
What about the 100% coverage of new buildings downtown where no trees or setbacks are required?
Who do you thing runs this city. ? It isn't tree huggers when it comes to businesses and developers any thing goes. Another 10,000 commuters to Stanford Research Park are coming with 100's of thousands of new office space approved in the last few years.
The light at Bryant and Oregon is crazy. With no traffic or bikes or people crossing it stays red for Oregon traffic for minutes at a time.
Will the county build a new underpass at the train tracks/Park Ave? Sure needs to be widened to six lanes.
a resident of another community
on Aug 10, 2008 at 6:05 pm
The best answer to trafic congestion there is to widen Middlefield to six lanes on both sides of Oregan Expressway and put in a giant overpass with cloverleaf ramps at all four corners of Middlefield and Oregon Expressway.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 am
On the contrary. They should do the same thing to Middlefield that they did to Charleston. To reduce speed and traffic congestion they should REDUCE Middlefield it to ONE lane. (yes, its working on Charleston.) Use the extra space to install more bike lanes. If the city gets to decide what it does with the streets (except Oregon apparently) then we can beat the county to the punch. There won't be much need for more turning capacity from Oregon on to Middlefield, if we turn Middlefield into just another neighborhood street/bike path.
See its the developers who are building the high rise housing developments along El Camino, and now complaining because the nature of Palo Alto's infrastructure isn't suited to dense housing, so wah wah wah they need to streamline the commuting convenience for all those PEOPLE they want to cram in to the housing they just built. (Big suprise, probably alot of prospective buyers are saying we don't like the commuting inconvenience with these locations...)
Hey - let them take the TRAIN! Wasn't that the whole ABAG point??? (PA's got the TRAIN STATION(s) - so they need to take the housing allotments - its all getting people on transit commuters soluations...) So now why should we be widening streets to make it more convenient for thousands of new car COMMUTERS??? They should have thought of that before they started cramming the city full of dense housing.
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Aug 11, 2008 at 10:55 am
A few years ago the traffic engineer in PA, Joe Kott, tried that experiment--it failed miserably.
Anyway, Middlefield is one of the cities main arteries--you cannot just take all the main streets and try to turn them into one lane streets to appease residents who live there.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Aug 11, 2008 at 11:09 am
Another major bottleneck in traffic occurs at Oregon Underpass.
This area has required work for years.
There are drainage problems resulting in significant algae and mosquito breeding sites.
There are also possible structural issues with the overpasses themselves.
Straightening this stretch of road may also improvement traffic flow.
Additionally, the on and off ramps from Alma are dangerous, they were never designed for the volume of traffic which uses them.
These improvements far exceed the amount which was allocated to the county from the State.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 11, 2008 at 11:09 am
Why not?
(And a few years ago??? They are doing it now on Charleston)
And, by "appeasing residents" do you mean making it safer, slower and less traffic congested? Again, Why not?
I say if, if people (residents or out of town commuters) don't like driving their cars on slower roads, they shouldn't do it. Go find other roads (like 101) more to their liking.
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Aug 11, 2008 at 11:26 am
Parent--As I said the narrowing experiment on Middlefield was tried a few years and was abandoned after it turned out to be a disaster.
It seems that residents move to a busy street and then want traffic cut down on that street without regard for where that traffic goes (years ago a certain city council member pushed to have Embarcadero Road narrowed to one lane also, btw, guess where she lives)
I guess if you would live near the Caltrain tracks you would want service halted and if you hear the planes landing at SFO you would want the airport closed.
If there is speeding then the city needs to have the police address that issue
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 11, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Hey Marvin, I don't live on Middlefield. In fact I live way over in South Palo Alto, no where near this intersection. But I was born and raised in Palo Alto (near El Carmelo - also not on Middlefield). Yet, I still don't want to see Oregon/Middlefield become a freeway.
However, if you know much abuot Palo Alto, you'll know that very few residents are not somehow effected by impacts on Middlefield.
People move to Palo Alto for a certain environment and quality of life, and those of us who have grown up here or who move here for a quality of life, are more than a little peeved that developers with the help of ABAG who don't give a crap about the quality of our city are loading us up with dense housing, and now trying to build thoroughfares to suit the influx of people they are pushing down our throats.
Again, the big defense for all the dense housing mandates from ABAG were the caltrain stations. So let them take the train then.
It so happens in this case that its NOT the RESIDENTS of the surrounding area that want the traffic patterns changed here. Its being driven by outsiders looking for a way to make it more efficient to load our city up with more housing (by making it more efficient for the car commuter traffic.)
Marvin, you're right - a bunch of people moving in to an area knowing what it was when they came, and now boo hooing - want it all changed around to suit them (faster routes in and out, to heck with what happens to the surrounding community).
If anything that stretch of Oregon/Middlefield needs to be slowed down, not speeded up. There are hundreds of kids that need to cross that road every day for school, and that's not going away ever.
By 'disaster' I assume you mean it inconvenienced you greatly to wait a little longer in your car at that intersection.
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Aug 11, 2008 at 12:31 pm
PArent--you can go back into the archives and read why the Middlefield narrowing did not work--clearly it had to have been a major traffic disaster if the city abandoned it and even Kott, who favored it, gave up on it.
The naysayers and NIMBYists in PA are getting together to oppose this much needed improvement of Oregon Expressway--nothing ever changes in PA
a resident of Downtown North
on Aug 11, 2008 at 2:15 pm
What's the point of having a Comprehensive Plan if you are then going to ignore it?
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Aug 11, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Unfortunately, it's not totally true that nothing ever changes in Palo Alto.
As noted above in this thread, one reason this is being pushed is to accommodate the 3000 units of ABAG housing the state has assigned us. We'll need to widen a lot of streets to accommodate the traffic and congestion this will bring. We'll also have to build more schools or expand (through temp buildings?) the ones we have. And of course since a lot of the ABAG housing will be "Below Market", we'll have to expand our social services to accommodate the new residents. We'll have to have more police to respond to the increase in crime that can reasonably be expected according to the New York Times.
Palo Alto will slowly be a different city. Some might like the new Palo ALto. A lot of us won't.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Aug 11, 2008 at 3:46 pm
What we are seeing is a blatant attempt by feudal grow at all cost and without limits/develop, develop, develop/pour concrete over everything/turn PA into freeways&expressways searching for a city. The soul, heart and character of PA is tree-lined streets, slower pace of life, cherishing nature and the environment. This forces of darkness want to remove the heart, soul and spirit of this wonderful place for the sake of unfettered development and the worshiping of traffic. This city is already grossly overdeveloped. In order to preserve it, we must slow everything down, make driving in PA less and less attractive so people use a much alternative means of transportation as possible. Drivers who find Middlefield too slow are welcome to not use it, use the city shuttle, walk or ride a bike, otherwise accept that Middlefield isn't an expressway and deal with it. especially in this day and age, drivers are the last we should ever cater to and remove trees and plants so they can drive faster. This would be a regressive and terribly foolish move. We don't want PA to be like Burbank or any other LA area small city. They are disgusting and represent everything that is tacky and vapid in our society.
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Aug 12, 2008 at 5:54 am
Mass transit will not work in a city like Palo Alto--the areas with the best mass transit are densely populated areas. "make driving in PA less and less attractive" is really not a good option (it may sound good on paper) realistically PA wants shoppers and visitors and businesses in town--you cannot have one without the other.
Middlefield, I agree, is not an expressway, but it is one of the cities main arteries. Traffic speeds need to be monitored by the police.
a resident of Midtown
on Aug 12, 2008 at 7:43 am
The reason that the 4-to-3 lane conversion experiment on Middlefield failed was because of the lack of coordination between the signals at Oregon and Colorado, which caused a lot of congestion in between. The Colorado signal is run by the City, the Oregon signal is run by the County, and there was no way to get the two to work together. The new project will install new controllers at all intersections, and the County is now willing to consider coordination with signals that are not their own (such as at Foothill Expwy and Arastradero). It's possible that the 3 lane configuratioun would work in the future, but there is no way to be sure.
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Aug 12, 2008 at 8:44 am
I was walking my dog near the Embarcadero/Middelfield intersection twice yesterday during peak traffic hours, as I do daily. There's no problem there, even during rush hour. There's no reason for Middlefield to become a fast traffic arterial. It doesn't make any sense and serves no purpose except to satisfy those who want Palo Alto to be like Los Angeles. I can live with shoppers arriving to downtown or Stanford shopping center 90 seconds later than they would like to.
a resident of Green Acres
on Aug 12, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Oregon Expressway traffic signal co-ordination is the big problem; it is operated by the County. Same problem with El Camino traffic signals; they are operated by the State. All traffic in Palo Alto should be co-ordinated by the first rate traffic management system Palo Alto installed and has operated very effectively since 2004.
To say that those three bureaucratic entities (State, County, City) can't get together for the common good is simply unacceptable defeatest talk.
Let's hold Joe Simitian and Liz Kniss responsible for getting this tangled traffic control mess straightened out.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Aug 12, 2008 at 3:15 pm
There's no traffic signal problem per-se with Oregon Expwy. The traffic light synchronization could probably be approved slightly at the margins, no more. There are just too many cars with one passenger using it, not enough carpooling and not enough free shuttles. We are reaping the dubious rewards of something that forced on many of us by Stanford's might and political influence. I'd be very happy to get rid of Oregon altogether, we'll all be much better off.
a resident of Midtown
on Aug 13, 2008 at 11:03 am
Hello Everyone
For all who has posted or read this blog, I invite you to the next Midtown Residents Association (MRA) General Meeting on this topic. from the MRA enews:
AUGUST 28 at 7:15 PM: Emerson School, Red Room, 2800 West Bayshore Road. on the Oregon Expressway. Masoud Akbarzadeh, Project Manager for the Oregon Expressway Project, and Gayle Likens, CPA Transportation Manager, will present details and alternatives. Walt Hays will led the discussion. Come early to see renderings of the alternative proposals for Oregon Expressway on display starting when doors open at 6:45PM. See county website for the project at Web Link for more details. For questions or comments, contact Pam Radin, MRA Trafic Chair at firstname.lastname@example.com
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 13, 2008 at 11:53 am
Seems to me the thing to do is close down Embarcadero Road, Oregon Expressway, Middlefield Road, Alma Street and University Avenue to motorized traffic of any kind--that will solve the problem of too much traffic in PA.
As a second step, the Stanford Shopping Center and Stanford University should be shut down. This will help alleviate any problems casued by the closing of all of those streets.
This will make many people in the city, including many of our council members, happy and will solve many of our problems
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 13, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Traffic needs to move through Palo Alto efficiently. We need to have streets where traffic moves to get people to where they are going. I am not talking about speeding, I am talking about efficient moving of traffic rather than holding it up.
While we are at it, we should think about the bottleneck at Alma and El Camino. This is an area where traffic flow is ridiculous. Most of us have to travel residential side streets to get where we want to go rather than use the main arterial and turn left to get to Stanford shopping center or straight on to Page Mill which would make most sense to us south Palo Altans.
a resident of Charleston Meadows
on Aug 13, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Oregon Expressway should be as efficient as Lawrence Expressway. We should add car pool lanes like other expressways in the Bay Area.
The county should put its foot down and do what is appropriate. It is very silly of people in the neighborhood blocking any development.
Folks who bought houses in that area knew what they were buying.
a resident of Midtown
on Aug 14, 2008 at 7:35 am
I'm in favor of the County's proposals for improving the intersection of Oregon Expressway and Middlefield. The other day, I was stuck on Middlefield in such heavily backed up traffic that the traffic signal changed FOUR times before I could cross Oregon. This scenario will only get worse, let's move on and improve Oregon Expressway.
Trees have finite lives, they can be replanted and grow just as tall as the ones removed. Also, the proposal does not call for removing any historic trees.
a resident of Midtown
on Aug 14, 2008 at 8:16 am
"Trees have finite lives, they can be replanted and grow just as tall as the ones removed."
Are you going to plant those trees on concrete? Where exactly will you plant them if you are removing the space in which they grow? Do you know other available space in Palo Aklto in which to grow trees and plants and flowers? If you eliminate the landscape strips, you eliminate the space to plant trees. So in order to speed up the traffic(assuming expanding Middlefield would even achieve that cherished goal), so you don't have to be stuck in traffic for 4 signal changes, heaven forbid) you are willing to get rid of many trees, plant and flowers in an age when the atmosphere is so saturated with carbon dioxide that the human race's survival is at stake? Did you know trees and plants are the only things right now that absorb carbon dioxide naturally and save us from catastrophic consequences?
Unfortunately, this kind of selfish, self centered mentality has made the US, now joined by China, the major polluter in the world.
a resident of El Carmelo School
on Aug 14, 2008 at 2:16 pm
We all have driver's licenses, right? Why don't we use them and start driving the way the law requires us to. Follow the speed limits, use your blinker, be courteous and pay attention to other drivers. That would prevent most of the accidents out there. I don't think we need to rip apart the sidewalks and trees to make the roads safer. Plus, won't wider roads just be an invitation for more cars to use them? A little more commonn sense and patience is all we need. If you don't like Palo Alto's slow, narrow streets, then find a different means of transportation or change your commute.
a resident of Community Center
on Aug 14, 2008 at 5:01 pm
If you build it, they will come. Building wider roads makes drivers more motivated to drive on them and is an open invitation for more traffic. All it would do is increase the traffic volume and solves nothing. For the sake of an increase in traffic volume you want us to rip apart wonderful green strips with their beautiful trees and flowers? No thank you, never, ever. I've recently returned from Sienna, Italy, where they don't even allow motor vehicles inside the city walls, with the exception of delivery and emergency vehicles, and tourist cars which are allowed to enter and drive as far as their hotel's parking lot. What a wonderful, incredible city, where pedestrians don't have to worry about cars, the air is mostly free of exhaust fumes, although the scooters can get on your nerves, I admit, no obnoxious noise of revved up engines, honking car horns and blasting car stereos. And nobody would want it any other way. Palo Alto was never meant to be a fast traffic city, and the absurd proposal for Oregon/Middlefield would stick another dagger in its soul and spirit.
a resident of Midtown
on Aug 14, 2008 at 11:18 pm
So your vision for PA, Judy, is that we should become a frozen in time tourist destination like Sienna? If the people who lived here 50 years ago had felt that way, most of the houses we all live in wouldn't be here, forget about our current street system.
We're growing, we need streets. It's a good thing.
a resident of Community Center
on Aug 16, 2008 at 11:16 am
Wow, I never said that we should be like Sienna. Sienna is an example of how you can have a wonderful city without subservience to cars and traffic. We do have plenty of streets, and the Middlefield-Oregon corner "problem" is a manufactured one, it doesn't exist. A couple of times a day, a driver might have to wait a bit longer to cross it, but that's about it. To uproot trees, flowers and plants, make the city uglier, reduce the quality of life for Middlefield residents and others who walk and bike on it and to put more pressure on the environment for the sake of making traffic more attractive, which always results in more traffic and the same old problems, is a backward way of thinking.
a resident of Professorville
on Aug 16, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Palo Alto needs another freeway between 101 and 280. There are too many stoplights on Middlefield and not enough free flowing traffic lanes. Take all the right of way needed to widen Middlefield throughout Palo Alto and Menlo Park to make a new eight lane freeway, create new interchanges every mile or so in both communities, and then sit back and see the traffic flow smoothly! Palo Alto needs to accept progress.
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Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:22:20 GMT —
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People are encouraged to turn the vehicle off and take the keys with them when leaving the vehicle for any period of time.


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Cabinet [October 2012] [PK]
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text:
British Singer-Songwriter Lee MacDougall Set for 2nd U.S. Tour This Year
Capitalizing on the success of his debut tour of the U.S. earlier this year, which included a performance at the SxSW Festival in Austin in March, British singer-songwriter-guitarist Lee MacDougall, returns for his second tour of the U.S. beginning in August. Dubbed the All The Right Places tour, the schedule kicks off in New York City on August 4 and will cover multiple cities over a two-month period.
Since his initial appearances in the U.S., MacDougall has successfully toured in Germany, Austria and Italy as well as playing in his hometown of London, where, in addition to an intimate club date, he opened for headliner Bon Jovi at the massive Hard Rock Calling Festival in London's Hyde Park on June 25th. He will also be supporting Atlantic Records recording artist Rumer on her UK tour in November.
MacDougall has become known for mesmerizing audiences with emotionally-driven melodies and resonating vocals. Louisville's Backseat Sandbar says of MacDougall: "He has the type of voice that can fill every crevice of a room and every fiber in your body. Its clear perfection can play your heart strings as easily as his fingers strum his guitar."
Earlier this year, MacDougall released an self-produced 11-song CD called IF WALLS COULD TALK that is available from his website (www.leemacdougallmusic.com) and at his live shows. The CD includes the standout tracks "The Star Hotel," "She" and "Joanna," among others. Additionally, noted producer Jim Lowe (who has worked with the Stereophonics, Taylor Swift and the Charlatans) produced several tracks with him, including the version of "She" that is part of a three-song EP he released via iTunes last year. An acoustic rendition of the song produced by Lee appears on IF WALLS COULD TALK.
With the expansion of his live repertoire, MacDougall is releasing a new self-produced CD (recorded in his bedroom) called FOR A FEW TALES MORE to coincide with the upcoming U.S. dates. This 10-song release includes a number of new songs, among them the affecting "Smile" and "Hindsight," which have become highlights of his live performances.
Originally from the fishing town of Grimsby in the north of England, MacDougall emerged from the open mic night circuit in London that has spawned new acoustic English artists in the last two years. His ability to couple a strong lyrical narrative with a memorable melody has enabled him to establish an international fan base that expanded when his music was embraced by the community of fans of the Twilight films.
But it is the strength of his songwriting that has earned him recognition on both sides of the Atlantic and support slots with artists such as Train, Starsailor, Paolo Nutini, The Feeling, Bob Dylan and Van Morrison. The Independent Music Scene wrote: "This is an artist that allows his voice to be heard clearly without masking the pure talent of the song. The music is great for having a lonely listen, to a couple's dance, to a drive through the country side with nothing to care about. The songwriting is straight forward without being simplistic."
Following his U.S. tour dates, he will make a return visit to Germany, Austria, Italy and England. The U.K. leg will include shows supporting Rumer on her multi-city tour.
Dates on Lee MacDougall's All the Right Places summer tour are as follows:
5-World Café Live, Philadelphia
9-Athens, GA
11-5 Spot, Atlanta (benefit for Alabama tornado victims)
12-The Nick, Birmingham, AL
13-3rd & Lindsley, Nashville
15-Buccaneer Lounge, Memphis
18-Southgate House, Cincinnati
19-Uncle Slayton's, Louisville
20-Cicero's, St. Louis
24-Continental Club, Houston
26-Cedar Creek Courtyard, Austin
27-Poor David's Pub, Dallas
29-The Blue Door, Oklahoma City
31-Joe Momma's, Tulsa
September 7-Humphrey's, San Diego
8-Hotel Café, Los Angeles
12-Elbo Room, San Francisco
14-El Corazon, Seattle
16-Poppy Café, Vancouver
20-Record Bar, Kansas City
22-Mario's Keller Bar, Minneapolis
23-House Café, DeKalb, IL
24-Double Door, Chicago
27-Radio Bean, Burlington, VT
29-Market, Boston
30-Listening Room, Boston (industry event)
October 1-The Bitter End, New York Cit
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