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Thread: Rookie mess. Help appreciated.
04-15-2013, 12:01 AM #1Member Platy
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Rookie mess. Help appreciated.
DISCLAIMER: I am not blaming my LFS. It is not their job to be a repository of aquarium knowledge. Their job is to sell me things. I know this. I didn't do my research first and it's my fault. Now I am trying to fix things before I waste any more money/time. (No fish were harmed during my misadventure).
I know this is a long post, but I am having a lot of trouble with my tank. Any help/advice will be much appreciated.
This has happened over the span of almost 1 month.
Set up
Tank: 29 Gallon Freshwater
Filter: Aquaclear 70 (Sponge, carbon, biomax)
Substrate: Eco-Complete
Conditioner: Seachem Prime
Test Kit: API Master
Heater: 100w
Light: T8 24" 17 Watt Aqueon Full Spectrum bulb
Oxygen: bubble wand buried under substrate w/5 gallon pump
Plants: 2 Amazon swords, 1 Red Flame Sword, 2 unknown plants
Decorations: 2 artificial logs, one small, one large
I got my tank as a gift 1 month ago. I didn't know anything about aquariums and didn't do my homework first. The LFS sold me a starter kit (tank, heater, water conditioner, and an Aqueon 30). I was also sold a bottle of Tetra Safe Start, about 30 lbs of gravel, some artificial plants, and dip stick testers for the water. I went home that night and set everything up. I was assured by the LFS that I would be able to add fish right away and that "cycling stuff" was nonsense because the Safe Start would cycle for me. Much to my regret I listened.
I added the Safe Start and tested my parameters. No ammonia, no nitrate, no nitrite. The sticks were inaccurate. The next day I bought 5 guppies at the recommendation of my LFS. I put the guppies in the tank. While researching their diet, I quickly discovered the necessity of cycling. After reading about fish-less cycling I decided that's what I was going to do, because I already had the fish. I was prepared to do daily water changes to keep the water safe for my new fishy friends.
Weeks 1-2
I learned that I needed to upgrade some of my equipment. I bought the API master kit. I tested my water with the new kit and discovered that my ammonia was .25 and nitrates were 10-20. 1 week went by. My daily water changes weren't effecting my parameters. I tested my tap water and learned that it contains about .25 ammonia and between 10-20 nitrate. I was literally doing water changes to remove the bad stuff while managing to put the bad stuff right back in.
Upon the recommendation of the whole internet, I purchased Prime, you guys really love Prime. I learned that Prime is supposed to temporarily detoxify the ammonia, which would mean the ammonia is not harmful to the fish, and the bacteria can still consume it. After treating my water with this for a week or so (maybe a little more) I was still getting the same readings. 10-20 nitrate and .25 ammonia. My rationale in continuing the daily water changes, knowing that there was ammonia and nitrates, was that in removing the old water, I was removing the harmful ammonia (which at that point after 24-48 hours, had broken its bond with the prime, therefore meaning its toxic again) and diluting the nitrates.
In between doing daily water changes to reduce toxins and getting no results, I discovered that every night when my timer would go off, it was turning off my filter. So, every night, whatever BB was built up during the day, was perishing (not to mention it wasn't oxygenating the water). I fixed the timer problem. I also learned that my filter, which only had activated carbon in it, was not ideal for a 29Gal. I upgraded.
Still doing daily water changes to detoxify ammonia and to remove nitrates. Still seeing the same results. .25 ammo 10-20 nitrate 0 nitrite. My new filter arrived, so I bought another bottle of Safe Start, hoping to get things moving. I ran both filters consecutively for a bit, because I didn't want to ruin whatever BB I did manage to build on the Aqueon 30. A friend of mine donated some filter media (carbon). I sandwiched it in between the media in my Aquaclear 70. I hoped that since it was from an established tank, the BB would help consume the ammo and provide some relief for my fish. It didn't. I am guessing this is for one of two reasons. Either his media was out of water for too long OR the BB didn't really grow on the carbon.
At this point I was starting to get really frustrated. I bought a lot of stuff that I ended up not needing. My water parameters were no better.
Week 3-4
A friend suggested planting the tank, because plants consume ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. I went to the store and bought two bags of Eco-Complete and some plants. I did a substrate change (went surprisingly well) and planted the tank. I bought Seachem Floruish and Root Tabs to take care of the plants. I also picked up an Aqua Glo 20 watt, to help with plant growth. I haven't decided whether or not I am going to return it yet. Even though it has more watts, it doesn't light up my tank as brightly as my current bulb.
Here we are a few days after the substrate change/planting. I have used three bottles of Safe Start (the beginning, when I replaced my filter, after the substrate change). I tested my water yesterday and my nitrates were so high they are almost red, while my ammonia shows no signs of lowering. I have since re-homed my guppies (alive and well) to a different friend with an established tank and some extra room.
My tank only has the live plants, artificial logs, and Eco-Complete. I would like to start a fish-less cycle now so I can establish the best possible bio-filter before I try this again. I have read conflicting things about the fish-less cycle with plants. I don't want to buy more plants right now. I need help/advice from some of the experienced members here. What is the best way to salvage this mess? I wont be buying any more fish until my tank is fully cycled. Also I would really like to avoid buying anything else if possible (except pure ammonia). I have read the sticky on fish-less cycling and cycling with fish.
How can I fix this, cycle my tank, and provide the best home for fish/plants with my current set-up?
Fish less cycling with plants is just like normal fish less cycling, although plants may complicate things slitly by absorbing some amounts of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate themselves. I would like to point out though that if you are getting nitrate readings, then your fish in cycle is already complete or almost complete. Keep adding an ammonia source(in the absence of household ammonia fish food will do fine) and keep track of your test results. The fact that you are getting nitrates is a good sign, and if all other parameters are zero for a few days then I'd say it is safe consider the tank cycled.
04-15-2013, 01:21 AM #3Member Platy
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My ammonia reading has never decreased and I have been seeing nitrate readings since day 1. My tap water has nitrates in it.
Last edited by Ickyvolnao; 04-15-2013 at 01:25 AM.
Is there a 'relevant facts focused' condensed version available?
Gas mileage isn't everything OIIIIIIIO
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Why pretend there are no stupid questions? Actually, There are many stupid questions: "Should I drink this bleach?" Is just one example.
Having said that, Just because it's a stupid question doesn't mean that it shouldn't be asked. It's better to know.
A warm beer is better than a cold beer. Because nothing is better than a cold beer, and a warm beer is better than nothing.
whoops. in the case that your tap has nitrates then you aren't as close to cycled as once thought.
what exactly is your procedure in cycling?
04-15-2013, 05:01 AM #6Member Swordtails
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- Mar 2013
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- 58
I would continue the cycling without fish and just let the tank adjust itself naturally. Don't change the water, just top off. Keep the filters going, and don't clean them out at all. I would add a pinch of fish food in the tank to have a source of ammonia. After a week, do another test to see what the levels are like. If your levels are high, just wait another week.
This isn't as big a mess as you think, and good for you for re-homing those fish and continuing with a fish-less cycle. As stated above, get some ammonia, living in Philadelphia this shouldn't be difficult. Make sure the ammonia you buy doesn't have any soaps, fragrance, or surfacants in it, janitorial strength ammonia from a hardware store is great. Add enough to bring the ammonia level up to 2ppm and wait. Since you have had fish in the tank there should be some bacteria already growing and fish-less cycling shouldn't take very long. <-- of course this is not a guarantee, every cycle is different.
Are you sure of the nitrate level in your tap water, 10 - 20ppm is alarming and if those readings are correct I hope you don't drink that water. When you test for nitrates are you shaking the crap out of the reagent bottles? There are crystals in it that will settle and at first, or if the bottle has been sitting unused for a while, you need to shake it around and bang it on the table like your life depends on it to get those crystals back into solution or you will get bad readings.When I go fishing I just throw sharp rocks in the water and wait for the dead fish to float to the top... Kingfisher
Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes that reason is you are stupid and make bad decisions.
I think my fish is adjusting well to the four gallon, He's laying on his side attempting to go to sleep on the bottom of the gravel.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Dear naps, sorry I hated you so much when I was a child... Love me
04-15-2013, 04:13 PM #8Member Platy
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I shake the nitrate bottles vigorously (at least 30 seconds) before using them, I also shake the nitrate test tube well for a minute or more after the second drops are added. I am certain that my test kit isn't defunct because I used a friends API kit and got the same readings out of my tap. I'm thinking about calling the water department and asking them if that concentration is normal and going from there.
As far as the tank, I am picking up pure ammonia today to continue the cycle. I wasn't certain if having plants would out-compete my BB for ammonia. I know that they will compete, I just wasn't sure how efficiently.
Assuming everything looks alright as far as the water department is concerned, does anyone have any long term suggestions to manage my nitrates? I am not worried about the ammonia in my tap because once my biofilter is established, the ammonia should be consumed before it becomes harmful again (within 24-48).
04-15-2013, 04:24 PM #9Senior Member Red tailed catfish
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- Dec 2010
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Once you are getting regular readings of 0 ammonia & 0 nitrites (showing your bacteria have all grown), as long as your nitrates are at 20ppm or less you should be fine.


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text: Another day, another actor praising what must be Saoirse Ronan's best asset: Her piercing blue eyes. Even though Saoirse's been in big films like Atonement and The Lovely Bones and nabbed herself an Oscar nomination, it always comes back to those orbs. More interesting, they manage to change shades depending which film or red-carpet event she's at; we count at least eight different colors. And you won't believe the way people fall over themselves to describe those eyes — we've come up with the actual quotes.


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Each lesson or activity in this toolkit is related to NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO). The toolkit is designed so that each lesson can be done independently, or combined and taught in a sequence. The Teacher Implementation Guide provides... (View More) recommendations for combining the lessons into three main strands: 1) Lunar Exploration. These lessons provide a basic introduction to Moon exploration. Note that this strand is also appropriate for use in social studies classes. 2) Mapping the Moon. These lessons provide a more in-depth understanding of Moon exploration through the use of scientific data and student inquiry. The lessons also include many connections to Earth science and geology. 3) Tools of Investigation. These higher-level lessons examine the role of technology, engineering and physics in collecting and analyzing data. (View Less)
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She's usually shy, this little girl with glasses and light brown hair. But on April 5, she made a bold decision showing confidence beyond her nine years. With thoughtful prayer, you see, this child of God made her profession of faith, marching down the aisle of Calvary Baptist Church to invite Jesus into her heart.
It was a big moment in a little Christian's life, and it reminds her mama of my own such decision, made at the conclusion of a long-ago Vacation Bible School at another Calvary Baptist Church, this one in Adams County.
With personal salvation comes responsibility, and I'm sorry to say I haven't always held up my end of the bargain. But that's part of the beauty of being a Christian, knowing that my sins have been – and continue to be – washed away by the blood of the Lamb.
Daughter's decision was made public on Palm Sunday, with a sermon that included a description of the final days of Christ. And to show us just how important our savior's death really is, our pastor read aloud "secrets" – origins unknown – written on cards that were then nailed to a large cross.
With every whack of the hammer, the weight of each sin was driven home. Maybe they weren't our sins, but we in the pews could relate nonetheless: jealousy of a sister, an abortion, an extramarital affair, cheating on income taxes, lying. All were nailed to the cross in a painful, powerful example of why Christ died for us.
And then came Resurrection Sunday. The music and message celebrating our risen Lord gives me goose bumps every Easter, and this year was no different. Except here I was, not only looking at Easter through the eyes of a Christian, but through the eyes of a brand-new Christian.
The lesson of rebirth and renewal also is evident in the world around us, and spring is more than noticed in our household. The 14 daffodils that popped up in our yard in late February were friends whose passing we mourned with last month's snowfall. And after the early April frost, imagine our surprise when the dianthus we planted last summer began blooming at the backdoor.
"Jesus is like the flowers," Daughter said. "They died and then they rose again."
The littlest Miller, at 6 years old, makes the connection in a different way.
On Sunday, she was thrilled to bits with the news that she finally had a wiggly tooth. A second one was discovered on Monday. It's been hurting her feelings that most of peers already have lost at least one of their pearly whites, but the prospect of a visit from the Tooth Fairy is much more important than a kindergarten rite of passage.
"It means I have two new little teeth that are trying to grow," she said. "My teeth will grow back just like Jesus."
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If he's not in Ep7, then they are going to need to use up value movie time to explain why. He was too important of a character in the OT to just brush him off.
It's easy enough to just put Mayhew in the make-up from the waist up and give him mostly white hair to show that he's aged. Then he can just send a transmission from his home-planet explaining why he can't be a part of the main storyline. Han can even make a comment on how his "life debt" had been paid off many times over and he told Chewie to go home and take care of his family.
Something like that would be better than to just say "Oh, he died. Go read read this book, now on sale at your local bookseller, to find out how."


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text: I wasn't really sure where I should post this. It's not really a video game, per se, but it IS computer software. I was wondering if anyone has heard if there is an E2- Insider's Guide coming out. I really enjoyed the one for the Original Trilogy and TPM. I kinda hope that there will be one as I like to read all of the reference stuff that is on the discs.


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Theodore Ziolkowski honored by Federal Republic of Germany
Posted August 3, 2000; 05:31 p.m.
Theodore Ziolkowski, professor of Germanic Languages and Literatures and Comparative Literature, was awarded the Order of Merit (First Class) by President Johannes Rau of the Federal Republic of Germany.
"Like few other scholars, you have succeeded in combining teaching, research and university administration," Consul General Bernhard Edler von der Planitz said in a ceremony July 26. "Your scholarly works qualify you as one of the most prominent Germanists of our age."
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Ziolkowski is the Class of 1900 Professor of Modern Languages and the former dean of the Graduate School.
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By Leslie Criss/NEMS Daily Journal
"I guess by now I should know enough about loss to realize that you never really stop missing someone; you just learn to live around the huge gaping hole of their absence."
Alyson Noel
"Give sorrow words; the grief that does not speak knits up the o'er wrought heart and bids it break."
William Shakespeare
"I'm not sure that picture will make the Putt Cut."
any number of writers at the Daily Journal
For as long as this column has been on this page – whether where it is today or down the left-hand column – it has been laid out by my friend and co-worker, Judy Putt.
Our senior copy editor and the person who designed most of our feature pages died a week ago after a brief and sudden illness. There's now an empty chair on the Journal's copy desk that will be terribly difficult to fill. And a hole in our hearts that will never be plugged.
Lots of folks called her Putt; I called her Judy Putt, running it together when I called out to her as if it were one word. I did this because I liked calling her Judy Putt – and because she wasn't the only Judy at the Journal.
Lots of stories have been told about Judy Putt this past week as we've grieved our loss and fondly remembered our friend.
For as long as I have been at the Daily Journal, nearly 14 years, Judy Putt has served as sort of a moral compass for us, especially with photographs.
Years before I arrived in Tupelo, a photo ran in the Journal that, apparently raised some readers' eyebrows. A few complaint calls came, and when Judy Putt gave the photo a more thorough glance, she was mortified and vowed to never let that happen again.
In the years since, it is not uncommon to hear a writer or editor comment about whether or not a certain picture will make the Putt Cut.
The only time I fought for a photo was when HealthWorks! was about to open and our photographer had taken, among other shots, one of an oversized model of a colon.
Judy Putt told me no one wanted to see that plastic colon over their breakfast. I told her this was a newspaper and it was our responsibility to let our readers know what HealthWorks! was all about.
We went back and forth for a while, then she gave in. Reluctantly. Later we laughed about it.
She was normally the first person to read my column after I finished writing it. As such, I came to depend on her comments as a gauge of sorts.
Many times after she'd read my column for the coming Sunday, Judy Putt would walk across the newsroom, stand in front of my cubicle and give her personal critique. It would usually go one of two ways: "Leslie, that column has just made me cry my eyes out, girl." Or she'd approach my desk giggling. Her wondrous laughter would stop just long enough for her to tell me, "Your column for Sunday has got me so tickled."
On the weeks she said nothing, I'd worry that I'd failed miserably and that any readers would be disappointed.
I'll miss that from her.
And so many other things.
Rest in peace, dear Judy Putt.


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New River Gorge
National River
West Virginia
In the New River Gorge area the Pottsville Group consists of the Kanawha, New River, and Pocahontas Formations (Figure 6). The Kanawha Formation is the youngest, and consists of 50 percent sandstone with some shale, siltstone, and coal. It is found primarily on hilltops and hillsides in the downstream end of the gorge. The New River Formation underlies the Kanawha Formation, and consists of predominantly sandstone with some shale, siltstone, and coal. It is found in the bottom of the gorge at the downstream end of the park, and on most hillsides and hilltops in the middle section of the gorge. The Pocahontas Formation underlies the New River Formation, and consists of 50 percent sandstone with some shale, siltstone, and coal. It is found in the bottom of the gorge in the middle section of the park, and on hillsides further upstream.
In New River Gorge National River the Mauch Chunk Group consists of the Bluestone, Princeton, and Hinton Formations (Figure 6). On different geologic maps these formations may be mapped separately, partly lumped together, or all lumped into the Mauch Chunk. These three formations all consist of red, green, and medium gray shale and sandstone, with a few limestone deposits. The Bluestone and Princeton formations that are mapped together are found along hillsides in the middle section of the gorge, and on some hilltops and higher elevations at the upper end of the gorge. The Hinton Formation is found in the bottom of the gorge at the upper end of the park, and also on hillsides and hilltops in the upper end of the basin (Ferrell 1984).
Several major geologic structures are found in the New River Gorge area. The axes of NS trending Mann Mountain Anticline and the NE-SW trending Lawton Syncline touch the northeastern park boundary near the middle section of the gorge. The NE-SW trending Springdale Syncline and a parallel anticline cross the New River in the upper end of the gorge (Ferrell 1984).
In Gauley River National Recreation Area the Pottsville Group consists of the Kanawha and New River formations. The New River Formation is found in the bottom of the Gauley River gorge and at lower elevations in the park. The Kanawha Formation is found on hilltops and at higher elevations in the park. The Mann Mountain Anticline crosses the Gauley River at the western end of the park, and the N-S trending Enon Anticline touches the northern park boundary near the confluence of the Gauley and Meadow Rivers (McAuley 1985).
In Bluestone National Scenic River the Mauch Chunk Group consists of the Bluestone, Princeton, and Hinton formations. The Bluestone and Princeton formations are found in the valley floor and hillsides of the park, and the Hinton Formation is found at the highest elevations. The NE-SW trending Bellepoint Syncline runs parallel to and along the park, and the NE-SW trending Dunn Anticline lies just to the northwest of the Bluestone River and crosses the Little Bluestone River (Shultz 1984).
Soil surveys have been completed for Fayette and Raleigh counties (Gorman and Espy 1975) and Mercer and Summers counties (Sponaugle et al. 1984). Pauley and Pauley (no date) described soils near Gauley River National Recreation Area based on Gorman and Espy (1975). An updated soil survey is currently being performed for Fayette and Raleigh Counties (Tony Jenkins, Natural Resource Conservation Service, personal communication 2001).
Ehlke et al. (1982, 1983) summarized the above soil surveys that include the three parks. Soils place New River Gorge National River (Dekalb-Rock outcrop) and Gauley River National Recreation Area (Dekalb-Gilpin-Enist and the Gilpin-Ernest-Buckhanon) in the Eastern Allegheny Plateau and Mountains Land Resource Area (Austin 1965, U. S. Department of Agriculture 1981). Soils in Bluestone National Scenic River (Gilpin- Dekalb) place it in the Southern Appalachian Ridges and Valleys Land Resource Area.
Based on existing published information, moderately deep silt loams or sandy loams dominate the valley bottoms and lower slopes in the three parks. These soils are well drained and very stony. Most of the soils lie on very steep (40 to 70%) slopes and are of low to moderate fertility. Derived from shale and sandstone, they are well suited for tree growth, but have severe erosion potential when destabilized. The upper slopes, ridge tops, and tributaries contain sandstone outcrops and broken cliffs that are from 1 foot to over 100 feet high. Brown sandy loams are also found on the ridge tops. The updated soil survey of these areas is expected to provide more details about these forested landscapes than was included in the older, more agronomic-oriented publications. This information is expected to be available between 2005 and 2007 (Tony Jenkins, Natural Resources Conservation Service, personal communication 2001).
Precipitation is the major source of ground water in the three parks. The amount of precipitation recharging ground-water reservoirs is affected by vegetation, ground slope, soil cover, geology, and climatic conditions (Fetter 1980). Only a small portion of falling precipitation actually enters the ground-water system. Processes such as overland runoff, interception by vegetation, and evapotranspiration direct most precipitation into the surface water or atmospheric phases of the water cycle. Water that percolates through the soil eventually reaches a zone of saturation, the ground-water reservoir. Annual runoff in southern West Virginia (including New River Gorge National River and Bluestone National Scenic River) is about 16 inches (Appel 1986). Values for Gauley River National Recreation Area may be higher. Annual runoff in mountainous eastern West Virginia is about 40 inches per year (Appel 1986). Ground water recharge is estimated to be 2 to 6 inches per year in noncarbonate, consolidated-rock areas of West Virginia. This includes all three parks. Differences in rock permeability and structural attitude affect ground-water flow (Fetter 1980). Velocity of ground water flow in most rocks is low, ranging from a few inches to several hundred feet per year. Flow velocity is controlled by hydraulic gradient (slope of the water table or potentiometric surface), and permeability (ability of rocks to transmit water).
Two types of rock openings, intergranular openings and fractures, determine the degree of permeability. Intergranular openings were formed when the rock materials were deposited, compacted, and cemented. They tend to be larger and more important in coarse-grained rocks such as sandstone than in fine-grained rocks such as shale, limestone, and clay. The actual permeability of the rock is determined by the degree of interconnection of the intergranular openings. Fractures, including faults, joints, and bedding-plane separations, are the main pathways for groundwater flow in the consolidated clastic sedimentary rocks of the Appalachian Plateaus Province. Hence these types of openings are most important in the three parks (Ferrell 1984).
Stress relief fractures occur in response to the unloading effect caused by the erosion of valleys (Wyrick and Borchers 1981). Stress-relief fractures are local and confined to valley sides and bottoms. They significantly affect the occurrence and flow of ground water in the parks (Ferrell 1984). High topographic areas or ridges function as recharge areas. Water infiltrates the surface and flows downward and laterally through fractures in shallow bedrock. The rate of ground water flow per unit area (hydraulic conductivity) decreases with increasing depth. Thus ground water flows primarily in a lateral direction along fractures or bedding planes, or through nearly horizontal coal seams that can have high permeability even at depth. If the vertical rate of flow or vertical hydraulic conductivity is negligible, then ground water continues to flow laterally, discharging as springs or seeps on hillsides. Where vertical conductivity is appreciable due the stress relief fractures along valley walls or hillsides, ground-water flow follows a stair-step path through the fractures, bedding planes, and coal seams, eventually discharging to streams and (or) recharging coal seams at depth (Harlow and LeCain 1991).
In the area of the parks, ground water is obtained from wells, springs, and abandoned coalmines. Wells drilled into consolidated rock units typically have only the top few feet of the hole cased, with the remainder left as an open borehole. Ground water enters wells from one or more water bearing zones or sets of fractures. Well yields vary, depending on factors including geology and topographic setting. Within a given rock unit, well yields may vary because of localized fractures due to such factors as stress relief, structural deformation, and subsidence caused by underground mining. Well yields are greater near the axes of anticlines where fractures have been formed during the folding of the original flat lying sedimentary deposits. Well yields are less along the axes of synclines where compression has tightly compacted rock units. Well yields are typically less in areas where subsidence has occurred due to collapsed roofs of underlying coalmines. Such collapse and subsidence creates vertical fractures that facilitate downward movement of water from overlying rock units to underlying mine shafts. If these underlying mine shafts become flooded, then wells drilled into them can have high yields (Ferrell 1984). In the vicinity of New River Gorge National River the Pottsville Group has moderate to high potential to supply adequate water for industrial or public use. The Mauch Chunk Group has low to moderate potential, except in localized areas with highly fractured rock. Well yields are generally adequate for farm or domestic use (Ferrell 1984).
In the Gauley River National Recreation Area, the Kanawha and New River formations have low potential to supply yields adequate for industrial or public supply, except at only the most favorable sites where all conditions are optimized. Yields for domestic and farm use from these formations are generally adequate, except in some hillside and hilltop locations. Mining in some areas will decrease the potential for any development (McAuley 1985).
In the Bluestone National Scenic River area, the Mauch Chunk Group has high potential to yield moderate amounts of water from valley wells several hundred feet deep and from wells near anticlinal axes. Yields from these wells are adequate for domestic, farm, and small municipal and industrial use. Wells on hillsides and hilltops may not have adequate yields for any use (Shultz 1984).
Mineral Development
Active and abandoned coal mines and oil and gas wells are present in or near the three parks. These activities pose existing and potential environmental problems for park water resources.
Coal mining alters both surface water and ground water chemistry of small watersheds in southern West Virginia (Borchers et al. 1991). Streams draining mined areas had higher pH, specific conductance, and greater concentrations of calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, bicarbonate, sulfate, manganese, and dissolved solids than streams draining unmined areas. The higher pH was theorized to be a result of acid reduction treatment employed by the active mines. Other studies (Ehlke et al. 1982, Bader et al. 1989) have concurred that streams draining mined areas are typically alkaline in the low-sulfur coalfields of southern West Virginia. Borchers et al. (1991) also found that ground water from wells near underground mines had greater specific conductance and concentrations of sodium, calcium, bicarbonate, and sulfate than did ground water from wells more than 0.5 miles from underground mines.
A study of the hydrology of Area 9, Eastern Coal Province by Ehlke et al. (1982) found that concentrations of total iron and dissolved manganese were highest in streams draining areas that had been mined for several years. This study, which included New River Gorge and Gauley and Meadow Rivers, also found that pH of surface water in New River (median pH 7.3) was generally neutral to alkaline, and that pH of surface water in Gauley River (median pH 6.4) was more acidic. Reasons for this are the greater buffering capacity of New River (mean alkalinity 42 mg/L) versus that of Gauley River (average alkalinity 10 mg/L) and the higher sulfur content of the coals found in the Gauley River basin. The low buffering capacity of Gauley and Meadow Rivers make them more susceptible to acid drainage. A similar study of Area 10, Eastern Coal Province by Ehlke et al. (1983) found that pH in the Bluestone River basin that contained extensive mining of low-sulfur coal varied from 5.4 to 10.0. Median alkalinity for Bluestone River was 52 mg/L.
Although most waters in mined areas of this region are alkaline, there are some where acidity problems do exist. This occurs most often where high-sulfur coal (as opposed to the low-sulfur coal predominant in this area) was mined or processed. In these areas, mine drainages or seepage through piles of processing waste ('gob') may be acidic. These areas are generally small and isolated. The relatively high buffering capacity of streams in these areas generally neutralizes acid problems quickly, and limits impacts to a few feet even in the smallest streams.
One major exception occurs at the head of Wolf Creek, a New River tributary that enters New River Gorge National River a short distrance upstream of the downstream park boundary. A large volume of acid gob, imported to this site from outside the watershed, has caused serious problems. Wolf Creek flows through Oak Hill and Fayetteville, the two largest towns in Fayette County, and is a major portion of the water supply for Fayetteville. Prior to the onset of acidification problems, the State stocked trout in Wolf Creek. Water immediately downstream from the gob pile often exhibits a pH of less than 3, although pH usually reaches 7 or greater by the time the stream enters the park. Occasional acid drainage episodes, including one in 2002, result in acidic water entering the park. An earlier attempt to remedy this problem through reclamation of the gob pile failed. The NPS has been partnering with a consortium of federal, state, and local agencies and a local watershed group to address this problem. The recent settlement of a legal proceeding makes $375,000 available to treat the gob pile in a more effective manner. Monitoring of Wolf Creek above and within the park is needed to evaluate the effectiveness of this additional work. The recommended action: Monitor Effectiveness of Wolf Creek AMD Treatment addresses the within-park portion of this work.
According to a 1995 minerals summary of the parks, there are 115 abandoned coal mine sites within New River Gorge National River, 11 abandoned coal mine sites in Gauley River National Recreation Area, and no abandoned mines in Bluestone National Scenic River (Ken Stephens, New River Gorge National River, personal communication 1998). Abandoned mine lands were inventoried in the park units in 1991 and 1992. Gauley River National Recreation Area has the only active permit for a deep mine operation within park boundaries. Abandoned deep mines in this park are mostly punch mines that tend to be newer, smaller, and have fewer associated structures and refuse areas than the large deep mine complexes in the New River Gorge area. Strip mining has been occurring mainly since 1976 in areas adjacent to Gauley River National Recreation Area. Because the National Park Service owns only a small portion of the mineral rights to the parks, the Office of Surface Mining is responsible for determining if mining can be continued or reopened in the parks.
Coal mines have the potential to affect water quality of tributaries to the parks, especially New River Gorge National River (Table 13). Borchers et al. (1991) showed that mine drainages and discharges augment streamflow during dry periods and comprise a large percentage of the total streamflow. Thus an inventory of active and abandoned mines in all watersheds tributary to the parks, especially New River Gorge National River, would be useful to park management. Databases covering active mine permits, abandoned mine sites, and permitted mines discharges are maintained by the West Virginia Division of Environmental Protection.
Mountaintop removal mining activity, which involves the removal of complete seams of coal and all overburden and the disposal of this material into adjacent valleys, has occurred and is projected to occur in an area from Mingo County northeast to Webster County (Figure 5) (Fedorko and Blake 1998). This projected area covers most of the northern half of Nicholas County and would be visible to, and include parts of, the Gauley River National Recreation Area. The Peters Creek drainage would be among areas potentially impacted. Little is known about the impacts of valley fills from mountaintop removal upon tributary watersheds (Ronald Evaldi, U. S. Geological Survey, personal communication 1998). Mountaintop removal impacts from mines in the projected area would probably be minimal on New River Gorge National River and of no consequence to Bluestone National Scenic River due to the distance of these park units from the projected area of mountaintop mining. However, mountaintop removal mines exist outside of the projected area that may affect the parks.
Stream sediments in areas with a history of coal mining may exhibit high concentrations of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH). Analysis of three coal samples from the New River area showed them to contain between 20 and 85 percent PAH's by weight. In this area PAH's are present in sand- and finer-sized particles, and may present a significant threat to aquatic life. They have been shown to cause many lethal and sublethal adverse effects on a variety of aquatic organisms (Eisler 2000), including liver tumors in bottom feeding fish (Baumann et al. 1991). Unpublished USGS statistical analysis correlated PAH's with external fish anomalies in the New-Kanawha River watershed. Concentrations of many PAH's in streams draining mined areas in or near the park exceeded Environment Canada's Probable Effects Level for the protection of aquatic life. More information is needed on PAH's in park streams to determine how severe a threat they represent to aquatic life. This concern is addressed by the recommended action: Determine Partitioning of Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons in Streams of the New River Watershed.
A report (Sullivan 1992b) on oil and gas development in and near the three park units determined that there are 16 active, two shut-in, and five plugged and abandoned gas wells within Gauley River National Recreation Area. Another 61 gas wells are located within ½ mile of the park boundary. Because pressure in the gas reservoir in this area had dropped from 650 pounds per square inch (psi) to 2 to 5 psi by 1991, future production was forecasted to come from deeper units to the west of the park. However, there was speculation that the mature shallower fields of the park could be used for natural gas storage. There is also an extensive pipeline gathering and compression system connecting the wells to a major intrastate line. In New River Gorge National River there is one active, one shut-in, and four plugged wells. The park has acquired surface ownership for all of these except the active well. Bluestone National Scenic River has no gas wells within its boundaries, although a major oil and gas pipeline crosses the park. No oil wells are present in the any of the parks. Gas development activity has increased markedly since 1992, and a revision of the earlier report is underway.
Facilities associated with oil and gas development include producing, shut-in, plugged, and saltwater injection wells; petroleum, gas, and saltwater pipelines; active reserve and buried reserve pits; and storage tanks, as well as an extensive network of roads. There is a high potential for oil or chemical contamination of park waterways and aquifers from this development.
Potential, general effects of oil and gas activities on water resources are summarized in Table 14. Effects on water quality may be significant. Impacts to surface water quality are more likely to be short term and difficult to track, whereas impacts to ground water should be considered as long-term impacts. The retention time of pollutants in surface water may be months. The retention time for pollutants in ground water is commonly measured in decades or centuries. For this reason, pollution of ground water can be considered a significant, irreversible and irretrievable loss. The contamination of aquifers could also result in eventual contamination of surface waters that are in hydraulic contact with the aquifers. The magnitude of water contamination depends upon the volume of fluids lost, the local geography, and the composition of the fluids.
Specifically, during drilling and pumping activities, the potential exists for spills and leaks of drilling fluids, muds, oil, or produced wastes. Drilling fluids and natural ground water encountered in the drilling process are often high in dissolved salt content (especially sodium, calcium, magnesium, and chloride) and sometimes contain heavy metals such as barium, cadmium, chromium, lead, strontium, and zinc (National Park Service 1987a). Bicarbonates, carbonates, sulfates, sulfides, and oil may also be associated with produced waters and drilling fluids. The potential also exists for spills or leaks of such substances as detergents, fuels, machinery fluids, and toxic chemicals. Trucks transporting oil or produced water pose further spill hazards, and storage tanks or pumping stations sometimes rupture. Herbicides sprayed for brush control along pipelines and other cleared areas can enter streams by way of storm runoff. Finally, fallout of airborne particles (such as dust) can contribute to water pollution problems.
The largest volume of waste associated with oil and gas activities is produced water (brine). Most is saline. Total dissolved solids in produced water ranges from several hundreds parts per million (ppm) to over 150,000 ppm. Seawater, by comparison, is typically about 35,000 ppm. These high dissolved solid concentrations greatly impact freshwater resources. One barrel of brine can contaminate up to 1,000 barrels of freshwater (National Park Service 1987). Brine usually contains a small percentage of oil (0.10 to 0.33 percent by volume), dissolved gases such as hydrogen sulfide, and possibly trace elements which can also impact water quality. The actual composition of brine varies widely and needs to be determined to ascertain the potential impact of a spill. The oil and gas development inventory for the three parks (National Park Service 1991) noticed evidence of brine discharged directly to the ground during well cleaning.
Oil and gas development has the potential to directly effect the aquatic flora and fauna by causing mortality. The most likely direct effect linked with mortalities would be associated with chemical spills and leaks whereby chemical contaminants find their way into watercourses. There is sufficient field and laboratory evidence that demonstrates both acute and lethal toxicity and long-term sublethal toxicity of oils and petroleum distillates to aquatic organisms (U. S. Environmental Protection Agency 1986). Depending upon the type of petroleum compound and the flora and fauna involved, lethal toxicities can be highly variable. Crude oil in concentrations as weak as 0.4 mg/l can be extremely toxic to fish. Also certain petroleum products that appear to have no soluble poisonous substances become deadly when emulsified by agitation, as would be the case in the often turbulent stream flows in three park units. Oily substances can harm aquatic life by: 1) adhering to gills and interfering with respiration; 2) coating and destroying algae and other plankton; 3) coating stream bottoms and destroying benthic organisms; and 4) direct lethal toxic action.
Direct monitoring of mineral development activities is outside the scope of the park water resources staff. Presently this monitoring is accomplished by a terrestrial biologist, but the need to hire a dedicated mineral specialist has been identified by park management. Communication among park staff, producers, and responsible agencies is essential to dealing with the potential threats from mineral activities. Maintaining the existing water quality monitoring program, and remaining flexible enough to deal with emergencies, are the most effective ways to deal with this potential threat. For these reasons, no specific recommended action is presented.
Coal mining has been a major land use in West Virginia for many years (West Virginia Geological and Economic Survey 1999a). By 1840 statewide coal production had reached 300,000 tons. Peak years were 1927 (over 146 million tons) and 1947 (over 173 million tons). By 1880 extensive mining occurred in Fayette County. In 1914 large-scale surface mining commenced. By 1936 mechanization (shuttle cars, conveyor belts, and long trains) spread rapidly through the coalfields. Development of huge shovels and draglines has facilitated surface mining in recent years.
Coal is mined in watersheds draining to all three parks. Surface and underground mining of coal has impacted, and could further impact, each park. Surface mining of coal by the mountaintop removal/valley fill method in Nicholas County could impact water quality and degrade scenic beauty in and near Gauley River National Recreation Area. Mining in areas projected for mountaintop removal (Figure 5) would probably have little or no impact on New River Gorge National River, and no impact on Bluestone National Scenic River, due to the distance of these parks from projected mining areas. Some mountaintop removal mining has occurred outside the projected area. Expansion of this trend might impact New River Gorge National River and Bluestone National Scenic River.
Coal production in Fayette County (NERI, GARI) increased from 1.2 million tons in 1987 to 4.1 million tons in 1996, with a peak of 5.4 million tons in 1994. Most of this production was from surface mines. Production in Mercer County (BLUE) between 1991 and 1994 was about 300,000 tons, all of which came from surface mines. Production in Nicholas County (GARI) between 1986 and 1996 peaked at 9.3 million tons in 1988, dropping to 2.7 million tons in 1996. Surface mining accounted for most of this production except in 1986 and 1996. Production in Raleigh County (NERI) increased from 7.2 million tons in 1986 to 13.6 million tons in 1996. About 90 percent of this production came from underground mines. Production in Summers County (NERI, BLUE) was less than 3,900 tons in 1986 and about 145,000 tons in 1994. All of this came from surface mines.
Oil and gas extraction is another important land use in West Virginia (West Virginia Geological and Economic Survey 1999c). In the early 1800's salt manufacturers encountered oil and gas while drilling for salt. At the time they were considered nuisances because they had no value. Salt manufacturers diverted so much oil to the Kanawha River that it was known as "Old Greasy" to boatmen. In 1859 a salt well near Burning Springs struck oil and produced 200 barrels per day when deepened. A second, nearby well yielded 1,200 barrels per day. Thus began the oil and gas industry in West Virginia.
Burning Springs was one of only two oil fields present in America before the Civil War. Development of deeper drilling techniques, well pump mechanization, and the theory of anticlinal accumulation of oil and gas led to expansion of oil production in West Virginia. Oil production peaked in 1900 at 16 million barrels. While oil production declined after 1900, gas production increased. West Virginia led the nation in gas production from 1906 to 1917. Gas production declined from 1917 to 1934, then increased again until 1970.
Production of oil and natural gas between 1979 and 1999 for the five counties in which the parks are located is negligible (West Virginia Geological and Economic Survey 1999d). In Fayette County (NERI, GARI) annual natural gas production in thousands of cubic feet (Mcf) ranged from a minimum of 2.5 million in 1989 to a maximum of 5.9 million in 1981, with roughly 4.0 million produced each year between 1990 and 1999. The number of producing wells increased from 119 in 1979 to 611 in 1999. Natural gas production in Nicholas County (GARI) varied from 1.8 million in 1985 to 5.3 million in 1981, with 2.1 million produced in 1999. The number of producing wells increased from 102 in 1979 to 383 in 1999. Natural gas production in Raleigh County (NERI) varied from 2.1 million in 1979 to 5.2 million in 1988, with 4.3 million produced in 1999. Natural gas production in Mercer County (BLUE) varied from about 191,000 in 1979 to 1.3 million in 1993, with about 1.2 million produced in 1999. The number of producing wells increased from 15 in 1979 to 135 in 1999. Only two wells in Summers County (NERI, BLUE) produced gas and only in 1999. Total volume produced was 16,326 Mcf.
Source National Park Service, Water Resource Division
Appel, D. H. 1986. West Virginia surface-water resources, pp 479-484 in National Water Summary 1985, Hydrologic events and surface-water resources. Water-Supply Paper 2300, U. S. Geological Survey.
Austin, M. E. 1965. Land resource regions and major resource areas of the United States (exclusive of Alaska and Hawaii ). Agricultural Handbook 296, U. S. Department of Agriculture, Washington , DC . 82 pp.
Borchers, J. W., T. A. Ehlke, M. V. Mathes and S. C. Downs. 1991. The effects of coal mining on the hydrologic environment of selected stream basins in southern West Virginia . Water-Resources Investigations Report 84-4300, U. S. Geological Survey. 119 pp.
Ehlke, T. A., and others. 1983. Hydrology of Area 10, Eastern Coal Province , West Virginia and Virginia . Water-Resources Investigations Open-File Report 82-864, U. S. Geological Survey, 73 pp.
Fedorko, N. and M. Blake. 1998. A geologic overview of mountaintop removal mining in West Virginia: West Virginia Geological and Economic Survey, Executive Summary of a report to the Committee on Post-Mining Land Use and Economic Aspects of Mountaintop Removal Mining, October 26, 1998. West Virginia
Ferrell, G. M. 1984. Ground-water hydrology of the minor tributary basins of the Kanawha River, West Virginia. West Virginia Department of Natural Resources, map report, scale 1:250,000, 1 sheet.
Fetter, C. W., Jr. 1980. Applied hydrogeology. Charles E. Merrill Publishing Company, Columbus , OH . 488 pp.
Gorman, J. L. and L. E. Espy. 1975. Soil survey of Fayette and Raleigh Counties , West Virginia . U.S. Department of Agriculture, Soil Conservation Service (in cooperation with West Virginia University Agriculture Experiment Station). 76 pp + 104 maps.
Harlow, G. E., Jr. and G. D. LeCain. 1991. Hydraulic characteristics of, and groundwater flow in, coal-bearing rocks of southwestern Virginia . Open-File Report 91250, U. S. Geological Survey. 48 pp.
McAuley, S. D. 1985. Ground-water hydrology of the Gauley River Basin, West Virginia. West Virginia Department of Natural Resources. 1 sheet.
Shultz, R. A. 1984. Ground-water hydrology of the Upper New River Basin, West Virginia. Map Report, West Virginia Department of Natural Resources. 1 sheet.
Sponaugle, K. N., D. E. McKinney, L. Wright, Jr., C. E. Nelson, R. E. Pyle and C. L. Marra. 1984. Soil survey of Mercer and Summers Counties West Virginia. National Cooperative Soil Survey. 173 pp. + 49 maps.
Sullivan, R. J. 1992b. Gauley River National Recreation Area and Bluestone National Scenic River mine and gas well inventory. National Park Servcie, Glen Jean, WV.
U. S. Environmental Protection Agency. 1986. Ambient water quality criteria for bacteria. EPA-440584002, U. S. Environmental Protection Agency.
West Virginia Division of Environmental Protection. 1999a. Watershed Atlas Project. Accessed June 28, 1999 , at < http://www.dep.state.wv.us/watershed >.
West Virginia Division of Environmental Protection. 1999c. WVDEP-USGS Landfill Database for West Virginia . Accessed June 28, 1999 , at < http://www.dep.state.wv.us/permit/wm/wm 2.htm1 >.
West Virginia Geological and Economic Survey. 1999d. Summary data and statistics: oil and gas production data, by county. Accessed March 18, 1999 , at < http://www.wvges.wvnet.edu/www/datastat/datao cg o.htm >.
Wyrick, G. G. and J. W. Borchers. 1981. Hydrologic effects of stress-relief fracturing in an Appalachian valley. Water-Supply Paper 2177, U. S. Geological Survey. 51 pp.
Welcome to the New River
The immediately perceived attractions are the river and its gorge. Together they present an impressive display of natural forces.
The gorge remained virtually inaccessible along its entire length until the railroad opened this isolated part of West Virginia in 1873. The railroad followed the riverbank and made possible the shipment of coal to the outside world. In time company men clashed with miners in bitter labor disputes that have made their way into labor movement legends and songs passed on to their descendants. Towns grew up, flourished, and were abandoned once the mines played out.
In the southern stretches, where the river is deceptively quiet with a broad floodplain, farming developed as a way of life devoid of the strife of the coalfields, providing its own contribution to Southern Appalachian culture. The river, too, has served as a migration route for plants and animals as well as people. Here some of West Virginia's rarest plants are found. And the New is one of the most renowned fishing streams in the state, and a premier whitewater boating river.
Today 53 miles of this river and its gorge and 40 miles of its tributaries are preserved as:
- New River Gorge National River,
- Gauley River National Recreation Area, and
- Bluestone National Scenic River
In this case the name is not all descriptive, for the New River may be one of the oldest in North America; the most accepted estimates date it at least 65 million years, in its present course. But the New once was a much longer stream that geologists called the Teays, flowing through central Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois and emptying into the Mississippi. The last advance of glacial ice during the Ice Age, about 10,000 years ago, buried most of this river and diverted the water of the New into rivers created by the glaciers: the Ohio and the Kanawha. Another noteworthy feature of the New is that it flows across the Appalachian Plateau, not around or from it as most other streams do. This is just one more indication of its age, for the river had to be there before the mountains formed, and the Appalachians themselves are very old.
Whitewater Activities
To many, the park is whitewater. Here the free-flowing New River falls 750 feet in 50 miles from Bluestone Dam to Gauley Bridge creating one of the finest whitewater rivers in the eastern United States. By comparison the Mississippi falls 1,428 feet from Minnesota to the Gulf of Mexico, a distance of 2,300 miles. In the southern end of the park the river is more placid. Except for a few Class III rapids that challenge the intermediate canoeist, this section is ideal for beginning boaters who look for a leisurely float with occasional smaller rapids and excellent fishing from the banks or shallows. North of Thurmond, the whitewater begins in earnest with rapids in varying heights and combinations ranging from Class I to V. Only experienced and properly equipped boaters should attempt to navigate these waters. It is advisable to go with an outfitter who knows the route and vagaries of the river.
The General park map handed out at the visitor center is available on the park's map webpage.For information about topographic maps, geologic maps, and geologic data sets, please see the geologic maps page.
A geology photo album for this park can be found here.For information on other photo collections featuring National Park geology, please see the Image Sources page.
Currently, we do not have a listing for a park-specific geoscience book. The park's geology may be described in regional or state geology texts.
Please visit the Geology Books and Media webpage for additional sources such as text books, theme books, CD ROMs, and technical reports.
Parks and Plates: The Geology of Our National Parks, Monuments & Seashores.
Lillie, Robert J., 2005.
W.W. Norton and Company.
9" x 10.75", paperback, 550 pages, full color throughout
The spectacular geology in our national parks provides the answers to many questions about the Earth. The answers can be appreciated through plate tectonics, an exciting way to understand the ongoing natural processes that sculpt our landscape. Parks and Plates is a visual and scientific voyage of discovery!
Ordering from your National Park Cooperative Associations' bookstores helps to support programs in the parks. Please visit the bookstore locator for park books and much more.
For information about permits that are required for conducting geologic research activities in National Parks, see the Permits Information page.
The NPS maintains a searchable data base of research needs that have been identified by parks.
A bibliography of geologic references is being prepared for each park through the Geologic Resources Evaluation Program (GRE). Please see the GRE website for more information and contacts.
NPS Geology and Soils PartnersAssociation of American State Geologists
Geological Society of America
Natural Resource Conservation Service - Soils
U.S. Geological Survey
Currently, we do not have a listing for any park-specific geology education programs or activities.
General information about the park's education and intrepretive programs is available on the park's education webpage.For resources and information on teaching geology using National Park examples, see the Students & Teachers pages.


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IDY28000 Australian Government Bureau of Meteorology Bureau National Operations Centre Satellite Notes for 0600UTC Chart on 23 April 2017 Issued at 5:11 pm EST Sunday on 23 April 2017 A weakening upper trough is triggering isolated thunderstorms over soutwestern Queensland, and a cloud band extending into northern NSW. A separate braod upper trough is causing isolated storms off the NSW coast. Low cloud is visible covers Tasmania and coastal Victoria, with high cirrus cloud rapidly moving across Tasmania and the eastern Bight. A weak cold front and cloud band is crossing the southern Tasman Sea. A stronger cold front is crossing the Southern Ocean, but is being prevented from approaching Australia by a high pressure ridge. A slow-moving high pressure system over the Tasman Sea is directing southeasterly winds and areas of low cloud with isolated showers onto the northern NSW and QLD coasts. A surface trough is responsible for thunderstorms near the tip of Cape York, with high cloud streaming into the Coral Sea. This trough connects to a low in the Arafura Sea between the Top End and Papua New Guinea, which is causing further thunderstorm activity. Another broad surface trough and low is causing extensive thunderstorm activity to WA. Mid and high level cloud is streaming southeast away from this activity. A trough extending from the WA low through the Bight is causing low cloud.


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Technical Resources
Natural Resources Assessment
National Resources Inventory
/ Acres of Cropland Converted to Conservation Reserve Program Land, 1992 - 1997
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Technical Resources
This dot density map show acres of cropland that were converted to Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) land between 1992 and 1997. Each dot represents 1,000 acres. Dots were aggregated by and placed randomly within each 8-digit hydrologic unit. This map reflects CRP contracts through the thirteenth sign-up.
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This map may not be used to determine site- specific information.
Source: National Resources Inventory, 1997
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Pablo Picasso Lithograph, Portrait du Maitre
Click thumbnails for expanded view.
Title: Portrait du Maitre de Ballet de la Scala de Milan, 34-4
Year of Original: 1925
Medium: Lithograph on Arches Paper
Edition: 500, 34 AP's
Paper Size:29" x 22"
Ref #: 34-4
Year of Publication: 1979-1982
The works of art in this collection were selected and reproduced from the personal collection inherited by Marina Picasso, PABLO PICASSOs granddaughter. All of these unique works of art represented in thiscollection were created after the original oeuvre of PABLO PICASSO on hand drawn lithographic plates under the supervision of Marcel Salinas, an outstanding chromist who worked closely with PICASSO during his lifetime. The Limited Edition lithographs are printed in accordance with the PICASSO lithographic standard, starting with exacting hand drawn plates combined with the usage of first quality, acid free museum Arches paper. Each edition is limited to 500 original lithographs numbered and signed by Marina Picasso with the embossed seal of the Estate and the chromist on the front and the legend of the reverse with the phrase "Approved by the Heirs of PABLO PICASSO".
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Item Details:
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- pic_34_4
- Quantity
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- c. 1979
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- Width: 22 inches
- Height: 29 inches
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|Bluewater Extreme Test the limits of the fly fishing domain
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Taking a chance asking this but....
Man, I got slammed elsewhere discussing 12wt sail fishing. And the commmnets were cool....obviously a 350 Blue is out of the question.....I will be in Abaco and looking to fish dolphin and with some luck a WHITE.....in the 100-150# range...anywho, a guy with a lot of experience mentioned using straight 80-100# leader (avoing complex knots that I will probably screwup)......my question is how leader shy, if at all are dolphin ? (Mahi-Mahi). If they are cooperative i might be able to use just one rig for both ? Good idea ? Crazy ? Thanks
JusBones, you should be just fine using that rig for dorado. My experience with dorado is they are not leader shy in the least. Especially when others are in competition for the bait and they see an opportunity arise (your fly) and they are very agressive. Also, it is frequent you will have several dorado competing for your fly at the same time. I often will use just a heavy leader straight with no taper and have had great success with that. I've also done the shock tippet with bimini etc. and don't think with dorado there is any sense in fancy expensive leaders.
I've fished for dorado lots in Baja and caught them on flies up to 50 pounds. You should join our group going down this next July from the 14-21st. Contact me directly if interested in info. We need at least one more to round out the group.
Good luck!
P.S. you can refer to my sailfish article entitled Loreto-Baja sailfish on the fly.
The biggest argument against a one-piece 80lb leader is safety. You absolutely do NOT want to have a loop of line around your leg, arm, wrist, etc. when you hook a fish or you will be leaving the boat. I feel this is particularly likely on pangas and super pangas because of their instability compared to larger vessels. The reason that class tippets were developed had at least as much to do with safety as it did in giving a fish a "sporting" chance. If you don't trust your knots, why not buy a high quality big-game leader made by companies like Rio? By the way, where can you find 150lb White Marlin in that area? I may be wrong and would love to be corrected on this, but my understanding is that most of the whites in that area are well under 100lb. That would mean a 12 weight and a standard tarpon leader should work just fine.
you are talking about 80 lb leader adn then some class tippet, right?
Jay Bug Beard The Terrible. local sw. washington river pirate
strong enough for a man but made for a woman
The ones I tie are usually about 7' of 50lb medium hard material (Ande's or Berkley Big Game) followed by 8kg or 10kg Mason or Rio Hard IGFA for the class tippet and then a 60lb or 80lb shock of Ande's, Big Game, or even RioMax. This is a standard tarpon leader that can be lengthened or shortened by how long the butt section is. For dorado and the like you probably don't need the 9+ft this will give you. The only reasonably difficult knot in this leader is the bimini. Learn to tie that and the rest is pretty simple. I usually tie mine to IGFA specs, but having a longer shock tippet isn't "cheating" and will usually allow you to land more fish.
Hmmm the old argument again about one piece leaders... Straight 80 or 100 has no real advantages and one big disadvantage. your line is more likely to break than your leader if you NEED to break the fish off. Even if you use a weak knot like a Homer Rhode loop... Remember it's about abrasion resistance, not tippet strength.
Learn to tie good saltwater leaders, then go 27# to 35# for the class tippet, and use 100# or 125# fluorocarbon for the bite. And go long. 4 to 6 feet of bite. You aren't going to set a world record, and it's about abrasion resistance, remember that! Don't worry about leader shyness or anything.
"I'm not fat, I just have a sweet hockey body!" Eric Cartman
Any class tippet over 22lb (10kg) increases the safety risk significantly. One of the reasons the IGFA didn't approve the Big Game Class a couple of years ago (which would have allowed 30lb class tippets) was the safety issue and the possibility of legal liability on their part. Line that comes flying up off the deck when a fish first starts to run can get caught on a lot of things. If it's your leg or arm you are in serious trouble.
I agree, but most people tie such bad knots...
"I'm not fat, I just have a sweet hockey body!" Eric Cartman
i see no reason to have a tippet stronger than 20#. anything heavier and you may as well be fishing with a conventional rig. a longer shock is a good call.
One cast can change your day...maybe your life.
I was just watching a fishing show a couple of days ago where a guy landed a 250+ lb sailfish on a 12 lb tippet. Maybe it was "Walker's Cay Chronicles"? The host wasn't the one who did it, it was the guide/captain. I couldn't freakin believe it. 12 lb tippet for THAT?!?!??!
There is something not correct in your information. The IGFA record for Pacific sailfish on a fly is only 136 pounds. Even the all time all tackle record sail is only 221 pounds. Therefore, either your weight or your species is incorrect. With care it is quite possible to catch large fish on relatively light tippets. Doing so is somewhat controversial because it either requires having the fish on for a very long time which increases the chance that you will kill it, or it requires the captain to back down on the fish very quickly, for the leader butt to touch the rodtip (therefore supposedly making it an official catch) and then either trying to get the fish to throw the hook or breaking it off. Since I don't have cable I wasn't able to see the program you're referring to so I don't know which way they went with this fish. By the way, twelve pound really isn't too bad. A good fisherman can land a sailfish of normal size in a reasonable time with high quality twelve pound class tippet material. The real circus is when they start using two, four, and six pound class.
Is it possible the fish they caught was a marlin? A 250 pound striped marlin on twelve pound class is about the same as a 100 pound sail on four or six pound. Marlin are so tough to get on the fly and have so much more endurance than a sailfish, that almost everyone uses at least a twenty pound class when pursuing them. The truth is that some guys say to heck with the IGFA or a possible record and use thirty pound or more. I'd be curious to know if you think you had the weight or the species incorrect.
Fish was a marlin - approx. 250 lbs. They were setup for sailfish when they hooked up.
Some of these replies leave one wondering just how much offshore fly experience the posters have had. You should be plenty fine with 30# tippet for mahi. You can go up to 50#, but will have a difficult time keeping tight loops with heavier leaders, and it will hurt your distance, If you're not fishing for records, I'd just tie on a stretch of 30# or 40# to your fly line and have at it. If you get a marlin in your spread, try it with 6' of 50#, to keep from abrading on the bill.
If you have a good boat driver, he/she shoiulf be able to get you on top of the fish regardless oif your tackle, and then you have to work a bit. With anything over 100#, a 15 wt is a help but not essent6ial. Just point your rod at the fish and crank the reel. It doesn't feel too elegant, but works well, and the stretch in the fly line will keep you from breaking off. Keep as myuch bend in the rod as you feel is safe, but just keep crankiong the reel.
The most important thing with mahi is to have a variety of flies ready. If they 'catch onto' a particular fly pattern and just follow it to the boat, a drastically different fly will get themn to hit again. I've caught mahi up to 54# on a 10# and haven't felt overmatched. Just jerk on them a bit to get them to go airborne and wear themselves out.
Josko, for Dorado, why would you need to go over 20#? I have caught them up to 40# with 20# flouro and no shock. I don't remember ever breaking off (well. maybe one or twice to bad knots). Do Mahi Mahi have sharper teeth?
Why would you want a tippet to be stronger than your line or backing?
Why not just have a longer shock for marlin (say 3.5')?
I should add that some people enjoy fishing under IGFA regs (even if they don't want to go for a record). It gives them a bench mark.
One cast can change your day...maybe your life.
Last edited by Eddie; 02-28-2005 at 08:00 AM.
If you have a good boat driver, he/she shoiulf be able to get you on top of the fish regardless oif your tackle, and then you have to work a bit. With anything over 100#, a 15 wt is a help but not essent6ial. Just point your rod at the fish and crank the reel. It doesn't feel too elegant, but works well, and the stretch in the fly line will keep you from breaking off. Keep as myuch bend in the rod as you feel is safe, but just keep crankiong the reel.
Listen to Josko re: fighting fish.
I read an article on Florida Sportsman, "Take It to the Limit, Shorten battles like a fly tournament champion, By Terry Gibson" Which discusses the system Andy Mills uses to determine the capabilities of his gear.
Regardless of what you think of Andy Mills, the guy C&R BIG fish and this is some good info - at least food for thought.
Personally I'm sick of seeing photos of stressed out exhausted fish from being landed on too light fly gear.
Just my $.02
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Note that the distance between digital pins 7 and 8 is 160 mil (0.16"), not an even multiple of the 100 mil spacing of the other pins.
Discussion from several years ago was that the design was rushed a little to make a deadline and the spacing was messed up by accident, and has since stuck.
I'd love to be able to whack my Arduino in a breadboard upside-down using some header pins
lets have it on all boards, PLEASE.
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Perfectly situated along a breathtaking white sand beach in the heart of Cancun's Hotel Zone, sits Dreams Sands Cancun Resort & Spa, opening this September! Experience all the great inclusions.
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A twist of citrus and a surprise creamy inside make this starry cupcake heavenly.
Use sugared edible flowers to garnish these cupcakes.
You'll get more lemon juice from a room-temperature lemon than from a cold one.
If you have only one pan and a recipe calls for more cupcakes than your pan will make, cover and refrigerate the rest of the batter while baking the first batch. Cool the pan about 15 minutes, then bake the rest of the batter, adding 1 to 2 minutes to the bake time.
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History buffs will enjoy the Western Region, as it includes several important Civil War sites, including the Antietam National Battlefield in Sharpsburg, marking the bloodiest one-day battle of the war, and Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, with its museum exhibits and tours. The Appalachian Trail and The Chesapeake & Ohio Canal National Historical Park offer opportunities for hiking and biking. This area has many lakes and mountains, so outdoor activities are popular here, including white water rafting, skiing, and even ice fishing.
Other nearby attractions include Savage River State Forest, Deep Creek Lake, Canal Place Heritage Area, New Germany State Park, Swallow Falls State Park, and the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad.
Take a break from the outdoor adventure to do some shopping in downtown Cumberland, where you will find antiques and collectables, furniture, art galleries, souvenirs, bookstores, you name it. After a long day of hunting for bargains, return to the comfort of your room at a member inn of the Maryland Bed and Breakfast Association.
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Family: Strigidae, Owls view all from this family
Description ADULT Has brown to gray-brown plumage overall (interior birds are grayer than those on Pacific coast). Upperparts are marked with pale spots on wings, tiny white spots on head, and striking whitebordered black false "eyes" on nape; underparts are brown or gray-brown (depending on plumage color overall) on chest, whitish below, but with bold dark streaks. Tail is strikingly barred. Note yellow eyes and bill, and white, eyebrowlike margin to facial disc, between eyes. JUVENILE Similar to adult.
Dimensions Length: 7-7 1/2" (18-19 cm)
Habitat Widespread in coniferous forests. Territories are large, so individual birds are widely spaced, hence status is rather uncommon overall. Mainly resident, but some altitudinal movement seen in winter among mountain-dwelling birds.
Observation Tips Its mainly diurnal habits should make this a relatively easy owl species to see. However, its low density and unobtrusive nature work against the hopeful observer, so the best bet is to learn male's territorial call, identify an occupied territory and stealthily pinpoint caller's location.
Range California, Western Canada, Northwest, Alaska, Rocky Mountains, Southwest
Voice Male's typical territorial call comprises a series of evenly spaced (1-2 second interval) piping callsó poo-poo-pooÖ (poo'poo-poo'pooÖ in southwestern montane birds). Call made by female is softer, higher pitched, and more rapid.
Discussion Small, plump-bodied owl with proportionately large, rounded head and relatively long tail. Active during daytime, hunting small birds, reptiles, and large insects, mostly around dawn and dusk. Hunts mainly from a lookout perch and dives down on prey. Flight between perches is swooping and undulating. Sexes are similar, although within geographical variation, females are more rufous than males.


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Face of a Killer
Face of a Killer
HarperTorch, Mass Market Paperbound, 9780061122309, 382pp.
Publication Date: November 25, 2008
Facts lie . . . Two decades after the murder that shattered her world, FBI agent and forensic artist Sydney Fitzpatrick confronts her father's killer face to face. But the inmate who's scheduled to be executed for the crime is not what she expected. Heightening Sydney's unease, she receives a photograph sent to her by a man just prior to his suicide, causing her to question everything she believed about her father. Now she wants the truth--no matter where it's hidden, no matter how painful . . . or dangerous. But Sydney Fitzpatrick is about to trespass on sacred ground. And being a federal agent will offer her no security or shelter if it's her own government that wants her dead.
"Big story + great character + relentless suspense + expert insider knowledge = one really terrific thriller."
-Lee Child, New York Times bestselling author of Nothing to Lose
"Robin Burcell kicks off a new series character with her trademark authenticity, wit, and pure story-telling prowess. Burcell scores big with this one—it's a real winner!"
-John Lescroart, New York Times bestselling author of Betrayal
"Robin Burcell is among the best writers of crime fiction. This book has it all—characters you care about, a complex plot, great pacing, and plenty of intriguing forensic detail. I can't wait for the next entry in the Sydney Fitzpatrick series."
-Jan Burke, Edgar-winning author of Kidnapped and The Messenger


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I saw a promo for The Today Show during NBC's football coverage tonight and it said Krasinksi and Fisher will be on some day this week...should be good !
According to Jenna's blog, her and john are going to be on the Today show on Thursday September 21st between 8-8:45am (9-9:45am Central Time).
I think she has that reversed: 8:00-8:45 CENTRAL time and 9-9:45 EASTERN.
Also, her and John are signing autographs at the NBC store this week to the first 45 people who buy the second season of the Office. I think that's Thursday too. But it's just a promo thing, so they only get half an hour. Still, would be cool.
"Woke up at 9.55am. Soon as I woke up, I looked at Suzanne and she looked at me. I said, 'Did I tell you about the immune system?' Suzanne starting laughing, I said, 'it's amazing.' She said, 'Not now.'"
Now she's adjusted that to say "We will appear somewhere between 8-8:45am (7-7:45am Central Time)." so I've got my VCR set for while I'm at work.
I just saw Carell on The Tonight Show and the bit they showed between Michael and Toby was hilarious, I can't wait !
Premiere thoughts: and note, from this moment on, this thread now has:
K, THAT SHOULD be enough: what a fantastic episode. I loved some of the assinine things that Michael did tonight and I was on the edge of my seat as I wasn't sure if he was going to embrace Oscar or not. And i got kinda worried cos i thought with all this stuff with Oscar, he might quit and/or leave the show. He's a minor character, but some of his comments are classic, especially when he was complaining about Angela's baby poster. Glad to see he's staying. and dude, Kevin GIGGLING for pretty much the entire episode. Good stuff.
Now onto the meat: I was pretty damn shocked to see Ryan sitting in Jim's seat. What a surprise that was, and, c'mon, Dwights crying fest was hysterical stuff. I am glad that Pam dropped Roy (who is looking thin these days; good for you!) but i'll admit, when the episode first started, I thought for SURE she went through with it. I was really surprised when she talked about what happened and I thought FOR SURE Jim would stop by and pick her up at the end or something, but alas, the writers keep us going. I am curious if Jim is going to start any romances with any new girls (but we all know eventually, he'll end up with Pam) and I loved the brief nod to the first season with the Jello. And what a great addition Ed Helms is! And i think that's about it. Great episode all around and i'm REALLY excited for season 3! Cheers!
Last edited by Jedi_Master_Guyute; 09-21-2006 at 09:56 PM.
"Woke up at 9.55am. Soon as I woke up, I looked at Suzanne and she looked at me. I said, 'Did I tell you about the immune system?' Suzanne starting laughing, I said, 'it's amazing.' She said, 'Not now.'"
If the writers handle the show like I think they will, we'll get two "Offices" in the same show. Big Tuna Jim pushing Ed Helms' buttons is going to make for some classic stuff.
Oh, and I want that gaydar.
* goes to Brookstone.com *
I LOVED how Jim causes Dwight grief, even though he's so far away. And that little smile and pondering expression from Pam was so well done. and i loved that ending dialogue by michael talking about if two people find each other..blahlbah blah and they show Pam and Jim. Awesome.
"Woke up at 9.55am. Soon as I woke up, I looked at Suzanne and she looked at me. I said, 'Did I tell you about the immune system?' Suzanne starting laughing, I said, 'it's amazing.' She said, 'Not now.'"
Not much I can say that hasn't already been said except that I think I fractured two ribs from laughing so hard at Dwight trying to kiss Oscar.
[FONT=Arial Black]"I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERF***ER!!!!!"[/FONT]
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Perfect way to start the season and plant the seeds for a great story run, I'm sure. Speaking of nods to the first season, don't forget Mr. Brown giving the diversity speech to the Stamford branch.
Creed's comments were classic, the whole episode pretty much rocked and I am drawn in for another go round.
Only think I didn't like about the episode was Kevin, his laughing seems dumb to me because as a fat guy he should be more sympathetic to other people who are "different."
Did you see how happy Kelly was when Michael and Oscar kissed ?
Congrats to the future Mrs. Phyllis Vance of Vance Refridgeration.
Not sure what I was more shocked by: No wedding or Jim's "leaving."
I also love the part with the girl at the new Office, commenting on Jim looking at the camera and making that face.
[FONT=Book Antiqua]He passes to Moses - He shoots, he scores![/FONT]
Mummy of the raincoat is a gigantic trollop.