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GreatSchools Rating
Teacher quality
Principal leadership
Parent involvement
The teachers my son have had were pretty involved in his progress, which made me pretty happy. He went there for 2 years, 1 at EMP and 1 year at EMI. The second year was the worse mainly because the front office staff. They aren't friendly at all and the records secretary is beyond rude. One of the main reasons I decided to move out of that districts. But I did really enjoy that they offered after school programs, which he really enjoyed. But he did come home one day and told me how the records secretary was very rude to him and rolled her eyes at him about not remembering a phone number. They could improve by hiring new front office staff, or having them go through a customer service training class.
It honestly doesn't get much worse. As a parent the drop off changed 3 times this year and all of them are poorly managed. The current drop off is the old bus route and there is no SIDEWALK, except at the very front of the line.. its just a cement cliff. So you are forced to wait to drop your kid until the front. The campus is "secure" so all the entries are blocked other than 3 in the am. I understand locking it up when the bell rings but never opening them? Speaking of bells, In the handbook it says school starts at 8:45 but after 22 tardies I was notified she has to be in her line at 8:40 ready to go to class because if the line leaves she has to get a pass from the office. Kids may also not walk through the office to go to class they must go around, you have to drive all the way around the school again or drop your kid across the street. They follow "make your day" which means your kid is responsible for telling the teacher how on task they are, the teacher doesn't keep a record. If homework doesn't get turned in no one tells you until report card time. Events happen and you here about it day of.
The principal is not supportive of substitute teachers at all. Substitute teaching is a very challenging endeavor and should be backed by administration. Principal was very stand offish to me and did not make me feel welcome at his school. I asked the principal to intervene on behalf of several students regarding bullying situations but nothing was ever accomplished. Office staff is friendly and teachers are very hard workers.
Excellent school! My daughter has learned so much in the past year. The teachers are great and are dedicated. I could not ask for better staff.
This school is awesome! The teachers are great and dedicated!
Great school! Dedicated teachers and staff. This school has become a model for others schools who are in lower economic areas and it should be. The test scores alone prove how dedicated the teachers, staff, parents, and students are. :)
For the people who are whining about the 'Make Your Day' - How do you think teachers can teach without the students learning how to be responsible? By the way, the school is not falling below the standards. Actually, this school received Performing Plus - just one point shy of Highly Performing - most of the students at this school are meeting the standards on AIMS. The person who was complaining and making a statement that this school is falling below standards obviously just wanted to vent without any real proof behind their statements. Students need to learn social skills and that's what Make Your Day is all about. This program holds students and parents accountable for learning and I'm sure that doesn't make some of the non-involved parents very happy.
The EMIS administrators and instructors are dedicated to increasing the safety, health, well-being, and educational opportunities of each student. If given ample funding, time, tools, and materials to implement specific endeavors, the EMIS would rate five stars. As such, it is a pleasure to vote for the EMIS!
With so much emphasis on the children's social behavior and this 'Make Your Day Program' it's no wonder the school is falling below standards. I am a supportive parent of the school and the teachers in place, but enough is enough. I believe they're so wrapped up in a child's social skills that they've completely lost track of the academic aspect; which is what the children are there for in the first place! Total lack of communication, rude, and lack of compassion is all I can say about the Office Staff.....We will be moving out of this area just so that my kids can attend a different school!
I like this school and the Teachers. But some of the people working in the office should take a Customer Service Class or something. They can be very rude and condesending. And there doesn't seem to be communication between the poeple in the office. As I call my daughter in to one person in the office and then several hours later get another call that they never got my message. Like I said I like the school. My daughter does very well and likes her Teachers but the office needs improvement.
I believe the teachers and administrators are very caring and capable. There are a lot of complaints regarding the make your day program, these are the people who need to come to school due to their childs behavior complaining, not the parents whose children are following the program. I believe working with the teachers and administrators rather than fighting against them would send the right message to our children and go a long way to help the school improve academically.
My daughter has attended Echo Mountain since pre-school, she is now in 5th grade. I have heard parents speak of the other schools their children go to. After listening to their complaints I have to say that Echo Mountain has never given me any reason to complain. The teachers always contact me if they think it will help my daughter in all her classes. This has been very helpful in a few ways. I love the Make Your Day Program they have. The principal is very concerned about all the children. Everything he does is in the childrens' best interests. I love this school and everyone there from the principal to the duty aides and even the janitor.
Echo Mountain Intermediate School is an outstanding school in the Paradise Valley School District. The administration and staff go above and beyond the call of duty to service a diverse student population. Children are given extra help in small group settings in areas in which they struggle. The care and attention that was given my child by the teachers there made her feel special and gave her a love of education. The Make Your Day Citizenship program allows the students to learn how to communicate to one another. A skill that is not universally taught to our children. Children can voice their concerns without fear of retaliation. My child felt safe and secure with this program. We have been in other schools that did not have the Make Your Day program and I would not go back to them. The students at Echo Mountain Intermediate are very lucky to be there.
There is nothing more irritating then a school claiming to want parental involvement yet doing everything it can to prevent parental involvement. The perfect example is that this and every other school district that blames the parents lack of involvement is the very same schools that has award assemblies at 10 am and after school activities that end at 5:30 pm. If I need to explain what is the logic of that type of scheduling you need to go to these same events at a school district that doesn t complain about parental involvement you might be shocked to find these events scheduled around the two parent work family s that make up over 90% of American homes. It has nothing to do with tax brackets and schools with money it is the people running the schools.
Unfortunatly this is the 4th school my kids have been to. This is the worst school yet! We are either transfering them to another school or we will move just to get out of this district! The office people could use a class on friendlyness and helpfulness. Parents beware!
Echo Mountain does focus on holding students accountable for their behavior. The school teaches students how to take responsibility for their behavior and consequences for inappropriate behavior. Academics are of upmost importance. Teachers are dedicated and go above and beyond to help all children be successful.
Too much focus on the 'Make Your Day' program, where students evaluate their soial perforamnce six times a day - once an hour - the point process is tallied and re-tallied. The outcome does not deliver a strategy for improvement or any measure of progress. With so much emphasis and time invested in student 'behavior' - where is the acedamics? With consistent below average test scores and the highest student to teacher ratio in the school district suggests that the focus on 'Making Your Day' takes priortity over academic learning at Echo Mountain. Clearly the expectations here are not being met. Echo Mountatin 'chooses' to not perform as expected. Clearly, Echo Mountain, does NOT Make ITS Day.
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The Community Rating is the school's average rating from its community members (e.g., parents, students, and school staff). The highest possible rating is five stars; the lowest is one star.
1811 E. Michigan 3
Phoenix, AZ 85022
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Lights Out Means Electronics Too
How many times have you popped your head in your "sleeping" child's room only to see their face lit up in the dark by the reflective glow of a cell phone? Many times it can be a challenge to convince your child that lights out means electronic devices too. It is all too tempting to […]Read more »

subset: commoncrawl


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Great Exuma House Rental Photos and Description
2 Bedrooms, 2 Baths (Sleeps 5)
Jericho House is a secluded property on the small island of Great Exuma. Houses on the island have names rather than addresses. Ours is no exception. Jericho House is named after a pond that has since then been filled but the name remains. The house is a simple single-story beach house designed for kicking back at the beach. If solitude and beautiful views are your idea of paradise, you will love Exuma. Exuma's appeal is that it is not filled with tourist traps and fancy hotels and restaurants, but rather that it a place of serenity where walks on sparsely populated beaches and boating or diving in pristine turquoise blue waters bring peace to even the most stressed-out travelers.
Jericho House is located less than five miles from the airport. It is difficult to see from highway, and the neighbors are barely visible as well. The property has a large number of mature coconut palms giving the home a very tropical feel. When you walk through the door, you will remember why you spent a difficult day traveling. The ocean is visible through the picture window and is the first sight you see when you open the front door.
- Suitability:
- children welcome
- non smoking only


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Dr. Cheryl A. Ewing, MD
Surgery, UCSF Helen Diller Family Comprehensive Cancer Center
- 1600 Divisadero St Fl 4
San Francisco, CA 94115
- 2 Office Locations
- (415) 353-9888
Dr. Cheryl A. Ewing has been practicing medicine for 31 years. Dr. Ewing graduated from the Wayne State University School of Medicine in 1983. She practices medicine in San Francisco, CA and 1 other location and specializes in Surgery and Surgical Oncology. Dr. Ewing is affiliated with UCSF Medical Center Parnassus and UCSF Medical Center Mount Zion. She speaks English, Chinese, Spanish and Russian.
Gender: Female
Years in Practice: 31 Years
Languages Spoken: English, Chinese, Spanish, Russian
Medical School: Wayne State University School of Medicine
Graduation Date: 1983
Hospital Affiliations: UCSF Medical Center Parnassus, UCSF Medical Center Mount Zion
Specialties: Surgery, Surgical Oncology
*This physician has multiple office locations. See Appointments for details.


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Keith Grassing
United States
|Start Position
|Current Position
To Par: +13Total Strokes: 78 - 78 : 156
- Birthplace: Bronx, N.Y.
- Residence: Somerville, N.J.
- Age: 38
- Turned Pro: 1995
PGA assistant professional at Harkers Hollow Golf Club in Phillipsburg, N.J. . . .Winner, 2008 NJAPGA Assistant Championship, 2005 NJAPGA Players Championship, 2006 NJAPGA Charity Pro-Am … Medalist, 2007 Met Open Qualifier … Qualified 2003 Nationwide SAS Championship in North Carolina … Runner-up NJPGA Match Play Championship 2008
Wife, Tammy; Children: Brittany, Kayla, Kelsey
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How Sweet it is!
In the self-proclaimed "Sweetest Place on Earth,"...


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The story of me:
Once upon a time, a Young Woman divorced her husband and went to work for a Company. Her job was very taxing and took a lot of time out of her social life. She had barely any time for friends, family or romance, and she intended to keep it that way. Then, It happened. The Company sent her on a business trip to a faraway place known as India to make a partnership with a fellow Business there. She sighed and went along with it, knowing that although it would be very strenuous, it was beneficial to both the Company and the Young Woman.
When she arrived, she was greeted by the Dreamy Man. He greeted her and she knew. This was love. Love at first sight. She decided then and there that she would do whatever she could to get him to notice her. Which was odd, because of course he noticed her, he was driving her to her hotel. If he hadn't noticed, she would still be stuck, a Young Woman alone at an airport without the Dreamy Man.
She settled in India and prepared for the long and arduous months she had ahead of her. She made fast friends with the Dreamy Man and they got along handsomely. Then he introduced her to his Bumbling Friend, all the while ignorant of her growing crush. The Bumbling Friend was okay. She didn't really talk to him. He was just there and it was annoying because it took away from her alone time with the Dreamy Man.
Eventually, though, she got her chance to be alone with the Dreamy Man, but before she could make a move, he told her about this dream girl he had met... in Agra, where the Young Woman had never been.
Crushed, she stumbled back to her hotel and spent a few days pining after the Dreamy Man. Eventually, she came out of her self induced isolation to notice that things were different. The Dreamy Man and his Bumbling Friend were not on friendly terms any more; apparently the Dreamy Man had hurt the Bumbling Friend's love and he was offended on her behalf.
She threw herself into her work, meeting successfully with the Business' representative, who was now the Bumbling Friend as the Dreamy Man was AWOL, apparently eloping with before mentioned romantic interest. So the Young Woman and the Bumbling Friend became close, quickly escalating to Best Friends. Everything seemed to be okay and the Young Woman and the Bumbling Friend traveled around India after their deal was finalized, making funny and joyous memories. They couldn't remember being happier.
Then the Real It happened. She was tired one night and sick out of her mind and the Bumbling Friend was taking care of her when she said in her delirium that if she had to marry anyone, it would definitely be him. From this, he was inspired. He quickly made his plans and the next night, he took her to a fancy restaurant.
That's when things started going wrong. First, his car was stolen.Then, traffic delayed them and they had to wait to make a new reservation. Then, once they had been seated, a passing waitress spilled a teetering bottle of champagne all down the Bumbling Friend's back. He jumped out of his skin and in the process, he dislodged the box in his pocket, and it went tumbling to the Young Woman's feet. She felt it slam on her foot and screeched in pain before she bent down to see what had slighted her. She picked it up. It was a black and velvet box and she wondered why it was under the table. She opened it and gasped. Inside was a simple silver band with "Love Your Beloved Bumbling Friend" inscribed on the inside. She squealed and literally jumped over the table to hug the - HER - Bumbling Friend and said "Yes, yes!" before he could even ask the question. One of the waiters kindly asked them to leave as they were disturbing the other guests.
They then went on with their lives and kind of forgot about the wedding. Then, one night, they got utterly smashed and ended up waking up the next morning in the same bed. Turns out, that's when Kageriah was conceived.
And the Young Woman was a nightmare when she was pregnant, eating the oddest things and becoming addicted to macadamia nuts - they were now temporarily settled in Hawaii - which induced an early labor and she almost gave birth the the poor girl three months early. Luckily, it all panned out and she had to wait another three months.
Kageriah was born and grew up as a rather foolish child, interrupting her parents vows at their wedding when she was three years old to go "potty". And so the Young Woman, her Bumbling Friend and their daughter, Kageriah, lived, the young one growing a silly and foolish girl who eventually joined the ranks of the aspiring artists on Deviantart.com.
And they have lived as happily as they could to this day.
The End


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November 25, 2014
LOS ANGELES (AP) - Carole King will be honored as the MusiCares person of the year during the 2014 Grammy Awards week.
The Recording Academy announced Thursday that King will be saluted by performers Lady Gaga, the Dixie Chicks, Bette Midler, Steve Tyler, James Taylor and Jason Mraz. More performers will be announced later.
The fundraiser for the academy's charitable foundation will be held Jan. 24 in Los Angeles, two nights before the Grammy Awards. Previous honorees include Bruce Springsteen, Paul McCartney and Neil Young.
A songwriter and performer with scores of hits from "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" to "You've Got a Friend," King has won four Grammy Awards and was honored with a lifetime achievement award at this year's ceremony.
Copyright 2014 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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November 27, 2014
Stay Connected Anywhere
TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) _ Gov. Sam Brownback has declared a state of disaster emergency for 62 counties hit by severe storms and flooding.
The declaration issued Friday authorizes state resources to provide emergency assistance. Brownback said in a written statement that the flooding has damaged infrastructure and that repairs need to be made as quickly ``so everyone can get back to business as usual.''
Counties named in the declaration are Allen, Anderson, Barber, Barton, Bourbon, Butler, Chase, Chautauqua, Cherokee, Clark, Clay, Cloud, Coffey, Comanche, Cowley, Crawford, Dickinson, Edwards, Elk, Ellsworth, Finney, Ford, Geary, Gray, Greenwood, Hamilton, Harper, Harvey, Haskell, Hodgeman, Kearney, Kingman, Kiowa, Labette, Lane, Linn, Lyon, Marion, McPherson, Meade, Montgomery, Morris, Neosho, Ness, Ottawa, Pawnee, Pratt, Reno, Republic, Rice, Rush, Russell, Saline, Scott, Sedgwick, Seward, Stafford, Stanton, Sumner, Wichita, Wilson, and Woodson counties.
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Stay Connected. Manage Your Care.
MyHealth gives you secure, anytime access to your health information.
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We are available to assist you whenever you need it. Give us a call at 650-498-3333 or firstname.lastname@example.com.
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During the perinatal period, a dramatic reversal of lung transepithelial ion and water transport occurs that involves the amiloride-inhibitable Na+ channel (ENaC). Aquaporin (AQP) water channel proteins facilitate cell membrane water transport. We now report that AQP-4, localized to basolateral membranes of airway epithelial cells, increases its mRNA expression in developing lung eightfold during the 2 days before birth to reach a peak on the first postnatal day in the lungs but not in brains or kidneys of neonatal rats. AQP-4 and the alpha-, beta-, and gamma-subunits of ENaC are both expressed by cultured rat fetal distal lung epithelial (FDLE) cells. AQP-4 and ENaC expression increase in FDLE cells cultured on uncoated permeant filters compared with matched control cells cultured on filters containing extracellular matrix derived from fetal lung epithelial cells. Similarly, AQP-4 expression increases in FDLE cells exposed to 21% O2 compared with cells exposed to 3% O2. These data demonstrate that AQP-4 expression is highest on the first day after birth in neonatal rat lungs. Exposure to ambient 21% O2 may contribute to increases in AQP-4 and ENaC expression to facilitate water transport across neonatal airway epithelia in the immediate postnatal period.
View details for Web of Science ID 000073905400023
View details for PubMedID 9609747


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I suspect someone affiliated with the Clintons, who obviously had help from someone inside HC. "Wright" will turn out not to exist.Emailing out an entire book in pdf is essentially pirating the book, which is illegal.
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No #1, you are wrong. It was just an "inartful" conveyance of information that he now regrets.
Click Here if you Like this Comment 6 persons like this.
And,... it contains everything Hillary knew about Benghazi and every scandal to date.In other words, it is blank pages. Sorry, she can´t recall.
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Sadly, the muck of the Clinton world is a plentiful trove for muck-rakers, and we are doomed to get much more of this.And, again sadly, as odious as this muck is to us, it's the coin of the realm on the left.
Click Here if you Like this Comment 15 persons like this.
Someone inside the publishing company that wanted to get this to the Clinton people so they could spin ahead of time leaked the book. It is obvious, that a demoRAT operative wrote the email since they went out of their way to make the "conservative" appear to be uneducated with all of the spelling and grammatical errors.Hey, aren´t all conservatives uneducated rubes? Scalia´s Supreme Court decisions are always riddled with spelling and grammatical errors. (Sarcasm on.)These people are pathetic and dangerous.
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Really? You want old, tired Hillary and the Horndog back in the White House. Really?
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Aren´t we just really tired of these people?! Hillary has yet to answer why she deserted the brave people of Benghazi. There is absolutely no excuse for what she and the president did.
Click Here if you Like this Comment 6 persons like this.


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Robert C. Brien of Sydney, Australia, was a tennis player in the 1960s and 1970s.
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Featured news
Dot-name becomes cybercrime haven
The company that controls the .name registry is charging for access to domain registration information, a step that security researchers say frustrates their ability to police the internet and creates a haven for hackers who run internet scams.
When security researchers investigate spam and phishing activity on the internet, they rely on special Whois directories, which list the owner of a domain name, their hosting service and their contact information.
At Wired.
[ Read more ]


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In the final part of Gary Neville's interview with MUTV, the defender talks about the influence of the boss...
What would you like to say about Sir Alex and his influence?
He'll be regarded as the greatest football manager this game has ever seen. For me to have played under him for that long is incredible. He's given me my opportunity. He always said he would do that if we were good enough. He's always given players opportunities. I owe him everything. He put in place the vision of what Matt Busby created 50 years ago – bringing young players through, local lads who love the club, the heartbeat of the club. He could mould them into the players he wanted them to be. You can never replace what local lads bring, but we require other skills. So the foreign players complement those attributes. The local lads are the foundation. We've got that right through the squad. You mould these players into Manchester United people.
Over these past 20 years, can you say that there's a best team you've played in?
The 1994 team - the power and strength and physique of that team was incredible; the 1999 team, obviously; and the 2006/07 team when Ronaldo and Rooney came of age and Vidic and Evra settled into the team, that was a really special six to eight months. I got injured towards the end of that season, but I thought we were brilliant and it didn't surprise me that team went on to win the European Cup. That was probably as enjoyable as it could be. But for my injury I'd probably have gone on to play in that team, but those three stand out. For achievement, you'd have to say the 1999 team.
You mentioned the injury in 2007, against Bolton. You were out for a long time, was that the beginning of the end?
You'd have to say it was. My touch wasn't great and Gary Speed smashed me, which I'd have done to him in the same position! I didn't come back for 12 months. The ankle was probably five or six months, then I got knock-on injuries. To miss a year at that age, football moves on so quickly. That was a


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Park Ridge Commons
- Click to Talk
View property, WalkScore, and Driving Directions
Fax: (847) 297-6766
Gas utilities, water and trash included at Park Ridge Commons in Des Plaines, IL located near Potter Rd, Golf Mill Plaza, I-90 and I-294; offering 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom apartment homes, Park Ridge Commons features a pool, fitness center, dishwashers, air conditioning and a laundry facility; very friendly and experienced staff; cats welcomed.
Spacious 1 & 2 bedroom apartments
Floorplans and Pricing
1 Bedroom
|1 Bedroom
|1 Bathroom
|$945 - $1125
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2 Bedrooms
|Two Bedroom
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|$1185 - $1355
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|Two Bedroom
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|$1315 - $1425
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Features and AmenitiesBack to Top
Special Features
- Affordable Luxury Apartments
- Gas utilities, water, trash included
- Dishwashers
- Air Conditioning/Brand New Appliances
- Fitness Center/Swimming Pool
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- Hardwood Floors and Carpeting
- Volleyball and Tennis Courts
- Extra Storage
- Friendly and experienced staff
- 24 Hour Emergency Service
- Laundry Facilities in each building
Community Features
- Accepts Electronic Payments
- Apartment
- Controlled Access
- Courtyard
- Disability Access
- Fitness Center
- Freeway Access
- Laundry Facility
- Pool
- Public Transportation
- Short Term Lease
- Standard
- Surface Lot
- Tennis Court
Apartment Amenities
- Air Conditioning
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- Cable or Satellite
- Carpet
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- Dishwasher
- Extra Storage
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- Hardwood Floor
- Internet Access
- Patio or Balcony
- Tile Floors
- Utilities Paid
- Window Covering
Additional Information
Year Built: 1970
Apartments in Community: 752
Pet Policy
Cats only, limit 2. No deposit.
- Cats Allowed
Local Schools
- Gemini Junior High School
- Maine East High School
- Stevenson School
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"The Bible is not the Word of God, Jesus is. John says he is the Eternal Logos, the true Word spoken from all eternity, and to put such a focus on the Bible as the Word of God is to take it off their point: Jesus. In fact, it's tantamount to bibliolatry–elevating the Bible to the 4th person of the Trinity."
Ever heard something like that before? It's become a truism among many of the Christian internet set, and something like it has been popular in theological circles for some time now.
I must admit, when I first heard the slogan myself, I was thrown off a bit. I mean, John does identify Jesus as the Logos, the Word, of God from all of eternity–the truest and deepest reality Father is eternally speaking. What's more, it's true that from time to time you can run across someone in a fundamentalist church who treats the Scriptures as if they were dropped from heaven and yet remain utterly oblivious to its central content. I can begin to see what motivates some to adopt it.
However, after the initial appeal, it appears to me that this is a mistaken move that many (though not all) use as a lead-up to falsely pitting Christ against the Scriptures. In fact, I've come to see this as sadly little more than a rhetorical sleight of hand, passing itself off as serious theology.
A Word About Words - The first is concerned with the basic nature of language and the simple text of the Bible. It should be an obvious point that words or phrases can, quite comfortably, have more than one proper use, or an expanded lexical range. For example, the phrase "God's will" can refer to God's will of command expressed in his explicit commands, but it can also refer to God's will of decree by which he governs history. Both meanings are appropriately designated by that phrase, and context will usually clarify any confusion on that point. It ought to be uncontroversial to say the same thing is true of the phrase "the Word of God."
At the most straightforward level, the phrase "The word of God" just means "a word God has spoken." We find hundreds of references to God's speech ("the word of the Lord came to") littered throughout the canon, whether in the Law, the prophets, or the wisdom literature. Every time God spoke to Moses, he heard "the word of God." Every time a prophet prophesied and used the phrase "Thus says the Lord", they were speaking the "word of God." Over and over, we see the preaching of the Gospel in Acts described as the "word of God." That Jesus Christ is the eternal Logos of God does not change the fact that it is entirely appropriate to speak of the utterances of Jeremiah or Isaiah as the "word of God." How much more then for the totality of all that God has "breathed out" by his Spirit?
For those worried about confusion on this point, this is why sometimes theologians have gone out of their way to distinguish what they mean by the phrase, specifying "the Word of God incarnate" (ie. Jesus) or "the Word of God written" (ie. the Bible). They know very clearly that one has certain properties that the other doesn't. For instance, the Son of God doesn't have the properties of being made up of 66 books by various authors over a period of a thousand years or so. On the other hand, the Bible doesn't have the property of being eternally-generated by the Father, or being incarnate, crucified, risen, and ascended in glory. Straightforward enough.
So when the author of Hebrews speaks about the Son's unique revelatory function he says "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe" (1:1-2), it's important note that he doesn't follow that up with, "so now that we have this final Word let's not call those previous communications 'God's Word.'" The conclusion simply does not follow.
Which brings me to the next point: the Word's own view of the words.
What Did Jesus Say? I've written before that it's rather misleading to pit Jesus against the OT, or the "red letters" against the black letter sections of the Bible, given his own view of it. Once again, consider:
Is it not written in your Law, "I said, you are gods"? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, "I am the Son of God"? (John 10:34-36)
Not only is Jesus not squeamish about equating the Old Testament Scripture with the "Word of God", he re-emphasizes their inviolability and authority by adding that they can't be "broken." Passages like this could be multiplied ad nauseam. In this he is followed by all of the apostles.
But instead of just repeating myself, J.I. Packer has some wisdom for us on this point:
But who is this Christ, the Judge of Scripture? Not the Christ of the New Testament and of history. That Christ does not judge Scripture; he obeys it and fulfills it. Certainly, He is the final authority of the whole of it. Certainly, He is the final authority for Christians; that is precisely why Christians are bound to acknowledge the authority of Scripture. Christ teaches them to do so.
A Christ who permits His followers to set Him up as the Judge of Scripture, One by whom its authority must be confirmed before it becomes binding and by whose adverse sentence it is in places annulled, is a Christ of human imagination, made in the theologian's own image, One whose attitude to Scripture is the opposite to that of the Christ of history. If the construction of such a Christ is not a breach of the second commandment, it is hard to see what is.—"Fundamentalism" and the Word of God, 61–62 (HT: Matt Smethurst)
In other words, if Jesus identifies the Scriptures as God's Word, why are we so squeamish about following suit?
The Trinitarian Word – Finally, this approach is confused because in doesn't see that the Bible is the Trinitarian Word of God. Michael Horton calls our attention to the Trinitarian coordinates of inspiration in The Christian Faith. Reminding us of the structure of all trinitarian actions he writes "In every work of the Godhead, the Father speaks in the Son and by the perfecting agency of the Spirit." (pg. 156) The Bible is the "Word of God" because in all the Law, the narratives, the Psalm, Prophets, Gospels, and Epistles we hear the Father testifying to the Son (John 5:39) by way of the power of the Spirit (2 Pet. 1:21).
We can see something like this understanding in Heinrich Bullinger's Second Helvetic Confession. After calling attention to the locus classicus establishing this doctrine ("All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching,for reproof," etc. (II Tim. 3:16–17), Bullinger puts it this way:
SCRIPTURE IS THE WORD OF GOD. Again, the selfsame apostle to the Thessalonians: "When," says he, "you received the Word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it, not as the word of men but as what it really is, the Word of God," etc. (I Thess. 2:13.) For the Lord himself has said in the Gospel, "It is not you who speak, but the Spirit of my Father speaking through you"; therefore "he who hears you hears me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" (Matt. 10:20; Luke 10:16; John 13:20). (Chap. 1)
In a sense, it is only as we acknowledge the Bible as the Word of the Father about the Son that we truly see the Son as the Father's own True Word. It is through the testimony of the Word of God written that we recognize Jesus as the Word of God Incarnate. What's more, given the current illumination of the text by the Spirit we ought say with Bullinger that "God himself spoke to the fathers, prophets, apostles, and still speaks to us through the Holy Scriptures" about the Son.
At this point I think it becomes clearer that to pit Jesus as the Word of God incarnate against the Bible as the Word of God written is a false choice. It's not only confused both at the level of language, not the attitude towards the Scripture taught to us by Jesus, but at the deeper level I fear it leads many to denigrate the diverse testimony of God to Christ in Scripture all in the name of elevating him.
So then, is Jesus the Word of God? Yes and Amen. Should we still speak of the Bible as the Word of God? Of course we should–Jesus told us to.
Soli Deo Gloria
24 thoughts on "If Jesus is the 'Word of God' Can We Call the Bible the Word of God?"
Hey guy,
Your second last sentence is hard to parse b/c of the inclusion of the word 'both'. I dunno if there's something more you intend to say there. Otherwise, great piece. Thanks for writing a good midday read :)
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The Bible is the archive of all the testimony of what is the mind of God in that which He desires us to know, and the schema of interpretation has no theological name I recall in that it appears to be underdeveloped but in TWO corollaries it is found on the lips of both Moses and Jesus and a passel of other apostles, disciples, prophets and other Holy Spirit gifted or inspired writers in about the following forms.
Corollary One – In the mouth of one witness shall no man be put to death. This is similar to Jesus' "If I bear witness of myself my witness is not true," and the more correct translation of 2 Peter 1:20, "This first knowing that every prophecy of scripture is not of its own interpretation.
Corollary Two – In the mouth of witnesses, two or three shall a matter be established (or a man put to death for a capital sin). Such matter is doctrine, judgment, confirmed testimony, truth, or in the Greek coined by the Apostle Paul, EPIGINOSCO/EPIGNOSIS (verb or nown) which is knowledge upon knowledge.
Doctrines that are determined by this law intuitively used by those otherwise under impressed with the Biblical statements of these could be the TRINITY (a doctrine with a Latinized name rather than a Bible name in that this doctrine is not normally stated but is developed by using two or more scriptures to develop it) and the RAPTURE (another Latinized name for a doctrine not stated directly with a name but understood by comparing two or more scriptures).
In fact Doctrine is NOT usually found established throughout all of scripture but are individual testimonies given by the prophets to which we with one of the several remaining gifts of the Spirit left the churches today called the discernment of spirits, which is NOT a gift to find bad spirits from good spirits but the words of the witnesses in the Bible examined by a single judge, confirm with our examination. Doctrines that ARE found in the Bible are those things called TRADITIONS only found in the Bible that started out being the combined testimony of the Apostles who were ordained witnesses of what Jesus said and did, the gospel being one of those traditions that began to be put in the archive we call GOSPELS which are actually the words of eyewitnesses of what Jesus did. Paul seems to be the one first beginning to see to putting spoken tradition into words in the New Testament.
Joseph seems to be the one that Moses first indicated being aware of the concept of two or three things establishing a matter when he interpreted the twofold dream of Pharaoh, saying that the dream is actually one but that God in doubling it twice established the matter and it is sure and bound to come to pass. But the first doubled testimony is actually that of the Creation accounts, some folk ridicule, and that of the Flood.
Paul throughout his 1 Cor. 13 love chapter being actually a part of a study from chapter 12 beginning with "I would not have you ignorant" to the end of Chapter 14 where he says "but if one is ignorant let him be ignorant still." Here Paul prophesies a soon termination of some of the marvelous sign gifts to the Jews and the revelatory gifts of Holy Spirit enhanced memory of eyewitnesses of what Jesus said and did and prophecy, leaving agape or unconditional love as the only credibility giving gift left the churches until the rapture or the end of the church age, when in the last seven years of God's dealing with sinful Israel, prophets and various gifts reappear. The end of the "this evil generation" of Jesus' peerage in 70 AD terminated the marvelous sign gifts to the Jews led by tongues, then special miracles and special healing. Eyewitness knowledge by the Apostles/disciples and prophecy ended in the person of John the Apostle in his last archiving testimony or his death.
This last is that referenced by Paul in 1 Cor. 13:10 when in this resolved ellipsis statement of the verse says, "But when the complete (archived) testimony is come then the testimony in part (EK MEROUS – defined in 1 Cor. 12:27 as a member in the body of Christ, and in the form ANA MEROS or BY COURSE explaining the manner of testimony in the setting of the Second Corollary of the law of Multiple Witnesses) shall be done away with.
Paul puts a scientific tinge to it when he equates this law with the three dimensional interpretation of the testimony of two eyes as an analysis of the fruit of two witnesses of any type, prophecy, revelation or whatever, in 1 Cor. 13:12.
All this to say that this testimony is sometimes called the WORD OF KNOWLEDGE (eyewitness testimony) or a WORD OF PROPHECY, or WORD OF WISDOM after the discerner of spirits gets through with it. By the way spirits used here are the fruit of such testimony in the form of words as in what Jesus said, MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE. All of this is the WORD OF GOD.
Jesus is the incarnate word of God. I don't see many people explaining about Jesus this way. But our fore fathers were familiar with it as we see in the Christmas hymn " O come all ye faithful". Every year we sing "Word of the father now in flesh appearing"
The father God honored his word above all his names (Psalms 138:2). None of the words of God is spoken in void. It accomplished its purpose and returns to the father (Isaiah 55:11)
Isaiah who prophesied about the birth of Jesus has also mentioned it in Isaiah 9:6-8 (particularly verse 8). Jesus is the word of God who became flesh or the word of God took the form of a man and was born in Bethlehem as a baby John 1:1-3, 14, I John 5:7; Rev 19:13, Hebrews 4:12, 13 (note these two verses talk about the word of God verse 12 starts with the word of God; verse 13 says nothing is hidden from 'his' eyes and not 'its' eyes.
He is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of God's being Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:3. That's why Jesus said whoever has seen him has seen his father. This is the reason why he is also called the son of God!
Because God created everything with his word, we also read that God created everything through Jesus (John 1:3; Hebrews 1:2; Colossians 1:16). In II Peter 5-7, it clearly says that the world was created by God's word and through the same word it is going to be judged. We read in John 5:22 that the father has handed over the authority to judge to Jesus!
Jesus was sent to this earth to fulfill some actions in this earth decided by the father (Jesus does not do anything on his own will) John 5:19- 21; John 17:4; John 4:34; John 12:49, 50; John 6:37,38; John 5:36; John 15:10,15; John 5:17; John 6:45; Hebrews 10:7-10; John 14:10.
Father God has given authority over everything to Jesus (John 3:35; Colossians 1:16; John 5:27; John 13:3; I Peter 3:22; Ephesians 1:20 – 23) but after Jesus defeats all the enemies he will hand back the authority to father God (I Corinthians 15:24 – 26).
Because Jesus is the word of the father God, the word that comes out of the father God's mouth is first conceived in the thoughts of the father God. Then it is spoken out. This is the very reason Jesus said his father is greater than him (John 10:29). This is also the reason why Jesus said he does not know the hour of his coming. Because Jesus is the word of the father, the word is realized only when it is articulated. That does not make Jesus any inferior to the father God. By commonsense will anyone say that a person's word is greater or lesser than the person himself. The relationship between Jesus and the father is also similar.
Jesus is the incarnate word of God. The Bible is the inspired word of God. The Bible is the word of God written down by the inspiration of the holy spirit for our benefit (II Timothy 3:16, 17). This is why the Bible says we are born again through the word of God (I Peter 1:23). That's why the Bible has got the same power which Jesus had!
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A quote from two theologians are relevant to this topic.
"Faith in God's promise presupposes that God is who his promise reveals him to be, and thus it places God's revelation of himself right at the heart of the theological task." — Carl Trueman (The Trustworthiness of God: Perspectives on the Nature of Scripture)
"The presentation of Jesus as the truth incarnate, as the Word of God, is critically important, and certainly something to rejoice over—but it is a relatively rare theme compared with the biblical emphasis on the truthfulness of God's words when he speaks." — D.A. Carson (Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church)
To add my own thoughts, which reflect what is written in this blog, it is important to remember that Jesus is never quoted as saying "I am the Word of God" (though he did make other 'I am' statements). That was said by John. And John said, "These things are written so that…" Like those in the Old Covenant who preached as witnesses for I AM and his word, so John and the Apostles of the New Covenant preached as witnesses of Jesus Christ and his word.
Funny thing: I've been concerned about this issue, not because it might devalue the Bible, but that it might elevate the Bible too highly. It seems to me that if both Jesus and the Bible are called the Word of God, the problem should be how to avoid equating the Bible with Jesus himself.
But thanks for clearing things up for me, Derek.
The making of the difference is rubbish. What you have clearly is that the Bible is the testimony of the mind of God of all that which He desires us to know. In that most of the discussion found in the Old Testament is actually given by JESUS, the WORD, HIMSELF. The trinity is replete in the Bible and to a point that it embarrased the folk who translate it making plurals of singular words and vice versa to indicate that ELOHIM means GOD, when in fact it means GODS in the plural sense of the trinity. We have GODS who is named JHVH. HAELOHIM actually means ALL THE GODS, again in the plural sense, but we have individual members of the Trinity, each ONE actually named JHVH, speaking and sometimes speaking of the other member of the TRINITY. You can speak of each SINGLE member of the Trinity as THE ONLY GOD who is the father, THE ONLY GOD who is the WORD or SON , and THE ONLY GOD, who is the RUAH or Holy Spirit. You can never really say that JHVH is the only God…in fact the Shma found in the Toray has it the other way. It has it that GODS is ONE JHVH. "JHVH our GODS is ONE JHVH."
The fact is the Bible, in that there are no more prophets during the church age since John the Apostle until the rapture when the church age ends, and the last seven years before the Millennium has prophets and others with special Holy Spirit like gifts like the early churches had, is the ONLY source of knowledge about JHVH our GODS, and we respect it in THAT light, don't worry about someone making an idol of it, leave THAT in GODS' hands.
If the Bible is the mind of Christ, what is your problem about confusion?
I know of folk, family, who denounce the Bible in lieu of their own GIFT OF KNOWLEDGE, PROPHECY or REVELATION. NOW THAT is a problem.
Hi Stephen,
Your first sentence indicates that you have a problem with what I said, but I'm not able to discern exactly what that problem is. Perhaps you could express yourself more clearly?
I suspect we're agreed on all major issues here. My comment was simply about needing to avoid equating the Bible with Christ himself, given the fact that they're both called Word of God.
If your concern is that I'm drawing a distinction between the *authority* of Christ and the Bible, then you don't need to worry about that. The Bible has the authority of Christ.
Hey James,
That you were not thinking EVERY word of the Bible, thus the Bible itself, is Jesus, and in worshipping Jesus you might kiss the Bible as well, I understand now.
I guess I was addressing the thought that your reply had hinted at, more than what you might have believed.
However, I was actually trying to show that where ever you saw in the Old Testament, the word of the LORD to this or that prophet, It was Jesus who was doing the talking. Sometimes He spoke of Himself, sometimes He was speaking for His Father, and it really gets tight sometimes to actually determine who is speaking to or of whom without a Hebrew Bible before you. You may already know these things, but it was a point I wanted to press.
The other thing is probably found in a post I made further up on this list (or earlier), is the underdeveloped doctrine that the Bible is actually an archive of testimony, containing actually a limited number of real doctrines. Usually folk seek a verse, one verse or so or even several passages in context and presume that it is teaching doctrine, especially in the prophecies, not knowing that the Bible schema of interpretion is that in the mouth of two or three witnesses (or scriptural testimonies) shall a matter be established. In fact to take ONE verse at all times to be doctrine is warned against by Peter in this other corollary of that Schema I mentioned where Moses says in the mouth of one witness shall no man be put to death, where Peter says in 2 Peter 1:20 in this corrected translation, "this first knowing that every prophecy of scripture is NOT OF ITS OWN INTERPRETATION." This is completely opposite from the false translation that prophecy of scripture is not of someone's private interpretation, the false warning of some Catholic like magisterium. In fact this mistranslation is actually found in the Latin Vulgate influencing Tyndale and those making the Geneva and KJV translations into English.
Even Jesus said this, "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true" and then goes to show that there are several other witnesses that verify His words. How this Schema of interpretation in two corollaries is found throughout the scriptures without too much comment by teachers of the words is startling and without this knowledge becomes a genesis of much error we know of today.
But these ideas only touch on what you mention, I just wanted it to be thrown out there for others to know in reading us that the Bible is a marvelous authority in our lives and we know nothing of Jesus without it, unless we were in the "this generation" of Jesus' peerage and of the Apostles, or in the period beyond the rapture when there is no church but prophets, 144,000 witnesses, angels and others Joel mentions of concerning before that great and notable day of the Lord. Sorry If I worried you a bit…but I hope we are square now.
Scripture is certainly inspired by God and can reveal the words of God. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit who testifies about Christ and reveals the thoughts of the Father towards us, can certainly use scriptures to reveal Logos to us. And it wouldn't be difficult for me to imagine that God already knew how much humanity would be both literate and illiterate at various points throughout history. All that to say, I am glad God is not limited to revealing himself only through his written words, but that he can reveal Himself (including Christ) through nature, dreams, visions, etc. I would imagine those who came into an awareness of and relationship with God through non-literary means are as well.
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Congratulations on making things confusing. I have a head ache after reading all this apologetic dung. Why do religious people insist on using big words and carnal understanding to justify THEIR beliefs and then claim they are correct, using scripture that agrees with THEIR point? We all know there's scripture to counter every point.
Only a fool would equate scripture to Jesus Christ, The living God.
The scriptures couldn't save the Jewish people, and it won't save you bible worshipers.
Jesus Christ IS the Word of God. The bible is dead scripture. Scripture is scripture. Scripture is not the word of God.
The only ones who call scripture or the bible "the word of God" are those who use the bible to manipulate people and those who are manipulated by these people.
The gospel is very simple, it's Jesus Christ and the promise of His Holy Spirit. Seek the gift of The Holy Spirit. He's not in a building or a book and only Jesus can baptize us with His Spirit.
Jesus saved me from my sins literally over night in Feb 2012. I was saved from a 25 year pornography addiction, a 20 year daily pot smoking addiction and my life long tv addiction literally over night.
6 months later He relieved me of my 14 year cigarette addiction. Praise Jesus.
No scriptures, no religion, not a church program or "accountabity" partner or group. The Word of God Jesus Christ Himself is what saved me.
Quit all this foolish non sense of apologetics, humble yourselves, and get your focus on Jesus and preaching Jesus. Preaching the bible is "the word of God" is not doing anything to help the lost. It's binding their minds on a book. It's blasphemy. It's idolatry and causing people to stumble.
Jesus alone is The way, The truth and The life. I bare witness to the reality of Jesus Christ, He is alive and wants to give His gift of The Holy Spirit to all.
Most professing "Christians" would rather have the scriptures and religion.
May Jesus bless you all with His Truth
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Spring is here. Come on outside. The Tanners Pond Environmental Center's April 6 Earthfest is a celebration recognizing the incredible value volunteers make to the community and the environment. The event, from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m., includes a 5K timed run starting at 10 a.m. Town of Hempstead Supervisor Kate Murray will start the race through the sanctuary, adjoining Nassau Haven Park, and local streets in the Nassau Haven section of town. Garden City Police are monitoring the closed roads for the safety of runners. Awards for first place male and female, as well as under/over 30 runners include gift certificates from Eastern Mountain Sports. An additional 1-1/2k obstacle race within the sanctuary is scheduled for 11:30 a.m. Come for a run and stay for the day. The event includes music by Acoustic Dave in the morning and a performance by the Garden City High School Jazz Ensemble 1-2 p.m. Food, entertainment, live animals, displays by local organizations and tours of the 9-acre environmental center will be conducted.
The event is free, except for registration for the races. The registration fee is $25 through March 30, and $35 the day of the race. Registration is being done on-line to coordinate T-shirt sizes and runners numbers for timing. Register for either race on line at "It's Your Race" http://earthrun5k.itsyourrace.com/event.aspx?id=636
You can even join a few not so "Angry Birds" or butterflies on the run. The event is also a means of raising much needed funds to erect a shelter at the site for use on the educational programs conducted for children, including the popular "Nature Camps" held in conjunction with the Garden City Recreation Dept. Sponsors for EarthFest and Earth Run are welcome, and the Bird Sanctuary offers thanks to H2M Consultants, Stop and Shop, People's United Bank, Lutz Landscaping, Drs. Tony and Ruth Randi, The McElroy family, EarthSoft, and the Long Island Volunteer Center for their sponsorships.
Participating organizations at EarthFest include Crossroads Farm, Garden City Volunteer Fire Department, Mineola Volunteer Ambulance Corps, Wildlife in Need of Rescue and Rehabilitation, Garden City HOPE Club, Garden City High School Key Club, Garden City Community Coalition, Adelphi Newman Organization, North Shore Audubon, Your Connection to Nature, Friends of Hempstead Plains, and Cornell Cooperative Extension. The list continues to grow, and your participation will help.


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text:
Are we referring to "macarons" as "macaroons" now?
- mollyomormon Feb 16, 2010 05:40 PM
From time to time, I'll see posters on chowhound searching for the best "macaroon" when what they're really looking for is the light, airy French cookie rather then a heavy coconut one. This NPR piece from today makes it seem as if the two words are interchangeable, even though to me, they refer to two wildly different desserts. Thoughts?
Yes, I've seen "macaroon" used referring to the light airy French cookie in legitimate publications as well as on forums like Chowhound and blogs. Personally, I find it very confusing.
add me to the confused list. i don't understand how/why the double-o spelling became applicable to the French incarnation, but i wish people would keep them separate.
i can usually figure out when a poster here on CH is actually asking about French macarons, but i ask for clarification if i'm not sure...particularly around Passover! ;)
re: goodhealthgourmet
could it be the first example of misleading American "advertising"?
apparently macarons are a very old French creation, copied by American ?pioneers who watered them down with coconut ... to reduce the cost! A first scam? .. To be sure no one can complain? " well you should check the spelling .. you bought a different product"
re: hilaryb
I'm finding your punctuation rather confusing. Are you quoting someone? Do you have some actual information about "macarons" being a "very old French creation"? Or are you just speculating?
I don't think you need to attribute some nefarious motive to the existence of "macaroons." Variations on cookies made with eggwhites, sugar and nuts exist in various cultures and are often known by some linguistic variation of the word "macaroon," According to wikipedia, the French macaron is simply a fancy variation of a much older, simpler confection from which it derives the name, and it seems more likely that the American macaroon was developed independently from the same original confection, making it a cousin of the French macaron, not a bastardized offspring. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaron
I was confused as well, because they were describing the distinct French-style macarons, yet every single person interviewed (and the reporter) said "macaroon". Do these "trendy" shops selling the things encourage that pronunciation?
Okay, I'm not sure I get it. According to the "Food Lover's Companion" 3rd edition, by Barrons, macaroon is the "small cookie classically made of almond paste and mixed with sugar & egg whites. And coconut can be substituted for almonds. Same dessert just different flavor. Like cheesecake, you can have different flavors, it's just still a cheesecake.
A macaron is another italian word for a type of macaroni or malloreddus. (It refers you back and forth to the pasta glossary.)
So, what's the question again?!!
re: Phurstluv
The proper macaron, as I understand it (and as prepared by Europane in Pasadena, CA) is a confection of two baked wafers of meringue, filled with a paste of fruit or other yummy stuff such as chocolate or nuts. A macaroon is more commonly a moist cookie of shredded sweetend coconut. Both are delicious, which would certainly prevent me from doing violence to anyone who argued the primacy of one over the other, but the meringue macaron has the advantage of lightness, delicacy, and a wider range of flavors.
re: Phurstluv
it's not the same, though. the textures are completely different.
i think it also depends on your experience/exposure. my first memories of macaroons (two o's) involve the denser, spongy, cakey, shredded-coconut laden ones out of a Manischewitz can for Passover. ick. turned me off to all macaroons for life.
sooo different from the light & airy French meringue-style macarons (one o).
re: Phurstluv
Phurstluv, I think your book has misled you. Yes, a Macaroon and a Macaron will both be made of egg whites and sugar, but the methods are different and thus the result is different. To use your cheese cake analogy it is the difference between a baked cheese cake and one set in a fridge, different recipes, very different results.
I don't think it is a matter of exposure, more likely ignorance on the part of he vendor/consumer.
re: Phurstluv
Macarons in the first picture and macaroons in the second. Two totally different things.
I think the American spelling has always been "macaroon" -- in fact, Merriam-Webster defines "macaroon" as "a small cookie composed chiefly of egg whites, sugar, and ground almonds or coconut" (which would apply to both kinds). The online version of M-W doesn't have "macaron" at all.
It's unfortunate, because as everybody else here has pointed out, delicate filled-sandwich macarons and sticky, dense macaroons are so different. I've occasionally seen people refer to macarons as "French macaroons." Maybe we could start a movement.
re: Pia
Pia - the recipes for almond macaroons and coconut macaroons use eggwhites and sugar. With both you get get a soft chewy cookie or cake. So the MW dictionary description really only describes Macaroons not true Macarons. The recipe for a Macaron is quite different with a lot more eggwhite and a different (meringue) technique, as Macaron is a French word it may not make it to a US dictionary.
As the owner of untold number of baking books, up until the current macaron craze, they were referred to as French macaroons. If the title was translated into French, the spelling changed to macaron. This is even true of the big black Pierre Herme pastry bible, La Patisserie de Pierre Herme. It has been the editorial standard for decades.
I had the "French" meringue version as a child, and they were called macaroons in my house, as we spoke English. No coconut for us. The word macaron is French for the English word macaroon. I guess the only difference is that the word macaroon in the US seems to signify the coconut-based variety, and the French macaron is a lighter meringue, ground almond-based, filled cookie. I will continue to think of macarons as macaroons, however, ignorant as that may seem.
The coconut version is a different cookie from the French version of meringue and filling, but the coconut is not the only version available in the US. I don't understand why macarons or macaroons, whichever you want to call them, and which have been in this country for decades in various forms, are suddenly a new hot European import, and deserve a name change, like they just landed on the planet. They are this year's cupcake, anyway, just trendy.
So, is the macaroon/macaron tossup just semantics, or something more sinister...
i asked grandnanny (who is seriously Quebecois) and with communication issues aside, she speaks as if they are the same word (macaroon vs macaron) and same thing; they can be coconut, or they can be almond.
i'd keep to that cheesecake analogy - i differentiate by specifying "poured" vs "baked".
re: dumpycactus
I've been thinking about this a bit and have decided to switch sides and jump on the macaroon bandwagon. Macaron is just the French word for macaroon. Insisting that people use the French word for these fancy little cookies strikes me as a bit snobbish. I think we should be calling them what they are, that is Parisian or Gerbet macaroons.
re: SnackHappy
Sorry SnackHappy, I have to disagree. Macaroon denotes the coconut cookie. Macaron is the sandwich cookie. They are quite different, and I have no issues using two separate names for the two to make sure I really understand what I am getting. If I want a macaroon and I get a macaron, I am going to unhappy.
I also have no problems using the french name for the cookie. There are plenty of examples of food items referred to by their original french name, without whiff of snobbery. I don't believe you have to have a translation for everything. For example, fois gras, petit fours, croissant, baguette, creme fraiche, mousse (as in chocolate), cornichons. All these words specify a certain product, and there is no real english word that is as specific. I expect something very specific of you give me a baguette. I have no idea what I'll get if I ask for a french bread roll, or whatever they use in North America as a translation.
Now I will grant you, I have gotten some very odd things that have been labelled "croissant" in North America. But that is the fault of the producer of the product. They need to be more precise about their language. In fact, I get quite irate when I get promised a croissant and get given some abomination that is vaguely croissant shaped.
I'n trying to imagine an english translation for kimchi. Smelly spicy asian sauerkraut? Chili picked vegetable? Just a pickle? It's easier to just say kimchi and explain only as needed. Or open the jar for them to sniff...
re: moh
"Macaroon denotes the coconut cookie. Macaron is the sandwich cookie. They are quite different,"
Quite right.
Anyone who orders a macaron is not going to get a macaroon. The funniest part, McDonald's in France sells macarons!
re: anonymouse1935
moh and anonymouse, please see my recent comments below about the larger picture. And add WSJ to the list of recent sources that missed opportunities to put the trend in perspective and clarify the nomenclature.
For now I would say, go ahead and use the French word, because ze macaron he is so much à la mode at ze momANH. But if it ever becomes an English word, its pronunciation will have to change. (That's how we got the word "macaroon" in the first place, like "cartoon", "balloon", "saloon", etc., all from French words ending in "-on" that didn't fit into English pronunciation patterns.) As it is now, we can't even pronounce it in the plural. How do you say, "I love macarons"? With a silent "s"? So chic! Or you pronounce the "s"? How gauche.
Sooner or later they'll be sold in 10 gallon plastic tubs at Sam's Club, labeled "individually-wrapped deluxe sandwich macaroons – made with real creme (may contain traces of nuts)".
It's unfortunate that Wikipedia is cited on this subject; its entries on macaron/macaroon have been held up for years as examples of Wikipedia's limitations. (I believe those entries improved lately, but Wiki's "Macaroon" _still_ claims French origins hundreds of years later than common French reference cookbooks have given for decades -- a typical problem with Wiki food entries.)
Not only is English word "macaroon" the exact translation of the French "macaron," mainstream recipes in both France and US were identical for most of their history. Today's word confusion is relatively recent, and reflects the emergence of a currently fashionable _filled_ "macaron" in parts of modern France, and the modern popularity of a coconut variation in the US. Here's a little more of the story.
Larousse Gastronomique in the classic 1961 translation authoritatively defines the standard French macaron (English translation "macaroon") as "a small round dry pastry made of almond paste, sugar and white of egg." (Seven recipes follow, crisp, flavored, or soft. None is sandwiched around anything, but that's an obvious and currently a fashionable use, just as cooked choux pastry can be filled to make cream puffs or éclairs.)
That's the traditional or "true" macaron / macaroon, in the US just as in France, according to the two most popular general US cookbooks (Fannie Farmer and Joy of Cooking) as of the 1960s (FF explicitly calls them "true" macaroons). Coconut variations were already popular then, and today they are common in the US, but they (like the sandwich form of "macaron" in France) are a variation, not the traditional form.
re: eatzalot
Thanks, what I thought.
re: eatzalot
Although Pierre Desfontaines developed the sandwich Macaron for Laduree in the early part of the 20th century. It may not make Larousse because it is a commercial product from a single source. On their site is to "oo" on the English version and "o" on the French one, and it is tricky to say what it is in Japanese....!
re: PhilD
Thanks PhilD. FWIW, I've encountered "macarons" and "macaroons" around the US and Europe for a good 40 years. The coconut variant of this biscuit ("cookie" in North American English only, of course) is not universal in the US, and has often been explicitly labeled "coconut macaroon." The sandwich variant is also far from universal in France. Although it gets a lot of current talk online, US fascination with the sandwich version is a phenomenon of recent years. Both are offshoots of the traditional macaron or macaroon, which have always been one and the same.
I feel it's regrettable that so many recent discussions (including some of this thread, and a recent Chow "Story" on the word contrast -- and I won't belabor Wikipedia) fail to explain this simple situation, easy enough to find in many standard print sources (I named only a few of the ones I've checked) if you look beyond the fashion of the moment.
re: eatzalot
....although we shouldn't ignore the fact that language and product names evolve. It is perfectly feasible for the words to evolve into different meanings especially if tied to a commercial product e.g. vacuum clean has become to hoover in many parts of the world, you google rather than say I will do a web search, and will use a biro not a ball point pen.
re: PhilD
Of course, PhilD. But the middle of a current fashion is hardly the vantage point from which to gauge its staying power, and the fashionable sense of "macaron" is comparatively very recent. In the US a few decades ago you could dub an unpopular car an "Edsel" and everyone understood you exactly; not today. I've seen intense US food fads come and go, from Sukiyaki (1965) to "pesto sauce" (1980) to Beef Wellington (late 1970s) to Prudhomme's "blackened" Cajun specialties turning up everywhere, to Alfredo "sauce," the very concept of which would make Alfredo de Lellio turn in his grave (since 1990s), to the very hippest restaurants displaying jars of multicolored sugar crystals for coffee (1970) or slathering raspberry puree over most meat and fish dishes (1985 or so). Some of these fads were mercifully brief.
Also, plenty of Francophones today know traditional "macarons," just as many Anglophones know true "macaroons," including in the US. When people raise the name issue, as this thread and the recent Chow story did, omitting the larger picture (in favor of things like "macaroon is the coconut cookie, macaron is the sandwich cookie") only furthers the confusion.
re: eatzalot
The counter argument is that because it a current trend then the label is correct and appropriate, the history is interesting but is it relevant? If the trend fades it also becomes history, if not it sticks.
I assume the cycle time for how names and terms enter/leave language has speeded up, back in the day it took a lot longer (do we thank The Wire for moving that into mainstream language?).
re: thew
PhilD, it was you who raised the topic of evolving language. My focus isn't history, it's current confusion and curiosity about the words macaron-macaroon, easily (but, it seems, rarely) explained via context. That the two words meant the same thing for most of their histories is just part of the story. Nothing's _wrong_ with using "macaron" in the current specialized sense. I just advocate _knowing_ that that sense is relatively novel, which is why different people are now understaning the word differently, unaware of any ambiguity. Just as "macaroon" doesn't automatically imply coconut. Surely more knowledge is better than less?
Thus if you know the context, SnackHappy's "Parisian or Gerbet macaroons" is self-explanatory. Even unambiguous, unlike "macaron." People who know French cooking, including in the US, may reasonably perceive the traditional meaning if you write "macaron. " (Just as Americans can only perceive "beignet" to mean fried dough if they _don't_ know much about French cooking.)
re: eatzalot
Sounds like there are several comparisons here between *evolving* language (where the meaning is currently in flux) and *evolved* language (where the meaning has changed from what it was previously and is no longer in doubt). A key difference is that evolving language can still be accepted or rejected (not all evolving things make it), while evolved language has already been accepted.
re: eatzalot
Yes, it's important to note that the sandwiched version of the macaron is not THE macaron/macaroon. It's just a recent, and the most fashionable, version of a very traditional kind of confection. For centuries macaroons have existed in France that look rather different from the Ladurée-style ones, i.e. les macarons de Nancy, d'Amiens, de Montmorillon... And in English, these are all called Nancy/Amiens/Montmorillon macaroOns. Macaroon simply being the English spelling of the French word macaron.
When I was a kid, there were 2 types of macaroons that put in the occasional appearance at my house: chewy coconut and chewy almond. Both were very dense, in a most delicious way. I didn't encounter the delicate French macaron until a visit to Alsace in 1980. (It wasn't a sandwich cookie, BTW.)
re: pikawicca
The left photo is a macaron. The right is a macarOOn. Dissimilar in every way...
re: menton1
There are many, many other types of macaroons, all of which are referred to in french as "macaron". The gerbet or Parisian "macaron" is only one specific type of those. Coconut macaroons have the same origin as gerbet macaroons. They are all macaroons.
Now, if English speakers want to define that specific confectionary as a "macaron", I guess the zeitgeist will decide. AFAIC and for the time being, the English translation of "macaron" is macaroon, no matter what its recipe.
re: SnackHappy
Trying to differentiate between macaroon and macaron is a bit like trying separate the use of 'chili' from 'chile', or 'BBQ' from 'grill'.
re: SnackHappy
SnackHappy, you're absolutely right, of course. Despite frequent explanations of these basic facts (including in this thread), readers like "menton1" above don't seem to "get" it. Perceiving the gerbet macaron as the entirety of what "macaron" means is like perceiving that "beignet" means mainly fried dough (a New Orleans offshoot sense of the common French food word; plenty of Americans actually do know a little about French cooking and therefore know the much more widespread sense of "beignet").
What you're seeing is people picking up a new word but not perceiving that the situation is more complex, that they've encountered a fashionable offshoot usage of a well-established and widely-used word, but rather that the version they picked up is the word's total significance. That perception is what creates ambiguity. (Just as the person who started this thread didn't appear to know that "macaroon" in the US doesn't always imply coconut; coconut macaroons are popular in the US and may be the only flavor a person has seen, but they're far from being the only type of "macaroon" in US cooking.)
re: eatzalot
What I recommend, eatzalot, since of course you "get it" , is that you go to Paris, and serve a patron that asks for "macarons" the ones on the RIGHT in my photos above. Maybe after their reaction, you might no longer "get it" so assuredly...
It matters little what the similarities of the ingredients are, these 2 pastries are decidedly different in every way.
re: menton1
No one is arguing that the 2 pastries that you show aren't different. The core issue in this thread is nomenclature. Should macaron be reserved for the one on the left, and macaroon for the one on the right, or does it really matter? And if you reserve macaroon for the coconut version, does (macaron) the almond version have to be a sandwich?
A 1976 dictionary defines macaroon as: "A chewy cookie made with sugar, egg whites, and almond paste or coconut [Fr. macaron < dial. Ital.maccarone]"
re: menton1
I have a friend who has lived her whole life in the Paris suburbs. When we visited her last spring, we came back from a day in the city with a box of Pierre Hermé macaroons (yeah that's what I wrote) as a gift for her and her husband's hospitality. When she opened the box, she asked us what they were. She'd never seen macaroons like those before. She said they were very different from the ones she grew up with.
This was more her idea of a macaroon or "macaron" or whatever.
Of course, she's in no way a foodie. She's not up on the current trends. She doesn't even like Paris that much.
I'm certain most Parisians and a lot French people are quite familiar with gerbet macaroons. I know a lot of them are crazy for them, or at least have been at one point. Parisians can be so trendy and fickle.
Nonetheless, that doesn't mean that the picture you posted is what every French person expects when offered a macaroon. Like I said before, macaroons in France come in many different forms and although the gerbet macaroon may be iconic to foreign and even some French foodies. It's not every French person's idea of a macaroon.
That being said, that's not really what this discussion is about. I think we've moved beyond that. The question is more should the English word for a gerbet or Parisian macaroon be "macaron"? And if that were the case, what of all the other French confections that are also called "macaron"? What do we do with those?
re: SnackHappy
Au contraire, snackhappy. The picture on the left is what EVERY french person expects when ordering a macaron.
Give ém the one on the right and you'll have a mini 1789.
re: menton1
I take it then, that you've personnally spoken with every French citizen and that none of them have ever heard of any of these:
Macarons de Nancy: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WxeUwuCN-H8...
Macarons de Boulay: http://blog.femmeactuelle.fr/Upload/U...
Macarons de St-Jean-de-Luz: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WxeUwuCN-H8...
Macarons de St-Émilion: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2063/1...
Macarons de Montmorillon: http://www.tourisme-montmorillon.fr/i...
Macarons de Cormery: http://media.achat-ville.com/uploads/...
Macarons de Joyeuse: http://www.pommedambre.com/media/cata...
...And there's a lot more where those came from.
These are all French macaroons, and to many French people they are what a macaroon is supposed to be.
I'm also certain that a great number of French would recognise the cookie in your second picture as a "macaron".
re: SnackHappy
Sure, there's many variations of macarons in France, commendable link research, snackhappy. However, these variations are NOT in a normal Frenchperson's stream of consciousness when the word "macaron" comes up.
So, you may be "technically correct", but "Practically incorrect", snack.
re: menton1
There is nothing in either of those articles that supports your arguement.
re: SnackHappy
...then you failed to read them or comprehend them...
re: menton1
The first paragraph of thenibbler article (the 2nd link) states: "Macaroon" means different things to different people, as you'll read in this article. To some, it's a big ball of coconut, to others, a delicate, airy meringue.
And then later says: But, have you gotten French macaroons, Italian macaroons, or that tasty hybrid, coconut macaroons?
Seems to say exactly what SnackHappy has been saying, that both the cookies in your pictures can be called macarOOns.
Looks like you're the one who failed to comprehend the article
re: menton1
SnackHappy wins....better username.
re: SnackHappy
What you're seeing of course, SnackHappy (and anyone else who's interested), is a human phenomenon, people who learned and maybe truly only ever saw one narrow sense of a word, who then defend that familiar intuition against the unfamiliar but wider reality outside their "stream of consciousness" (good phrase). Often they're willing to genuinely question their current notions, but online I see many who instead will look anywhere they can for sources to buttress, rather than examine, an existing notion.
One side effect is that the word's user UNconsciously conveys something about their own exposure to the word. When someone insists on the narrow fashionable (and historically rather unusual) sense of "macaron" it tells me not just that this is the sole version the person learned, but also something about the time and context in which they learned it. In the US, few people who knew the word "macaron" more than a few years ago understood it as a gerbet macaron, and none with much exposure to French cooking or cookbooks. Out of a much larger collection, about 100 or 150 of my cookbooks deal with French cooking (in English or French), from recent to classic, and though I did get one recent book, about the colorful sandwich macarons (beautiful pictures!), every standard established French cookbook I've checked, recent or classic, mentions macarons, often in great detail, and cites the gerbet as a novelty variation if it mentions it at all. The Larousse Gastronomique doesn't even mention them as of its 2001 edition and, like other authoritative French sources that are bilingual, gives "macaroon" as simply the English equivalent of "macaron" (along with recipes). And yet people will argue ...
re: menton1
The first and only time I tried making the ones on the left, I called them %$#@!!. The ones on the right, which come our perfectly every time, I call delicious. But I will try again with the macarons.
To really confuse everything, Bibou restaurant in Philadelphia, a Beard nominee for best new restaurant, is a very french bistro and serves macarOOns as a mignardaise and the wonderful crisp cookie from Amien in Picardy is called the Amien macarOOn.
I don't have much to add, other than threads like this are why I love the CH community. I readily admit that I am far from an expert on most everything -- though my friends might tell you I act otherwise <grin>.
That being said, when I clicked on this thread it was with a certain puffed-up haughtiness and the thought that, "Of course there is a difference! Who could possibly think of macarons and macaroons are the same thing! Macarons cannot be thought of as anything other than the beautiful sandwich cookies I moan over every time I'm in Paris. Snort!"
Cut to ...
Me spending over an hour reading various online articles on how to make them ... then going to Amazon and adding Pierre Herme's "Macaron" to my wishlist for Christmas (after debating with my wife if anyone would actually spend $120 on a book written in a language of which I have only a grade-school level's command) ... then ransacking my cupboards and pantry to see if there are any ingredients I do not have for my attempt later today to make these ...
Cut to ...
Me clicking through my tabs and realizing this thread was why I was on such a hunt, and then me reading the entirety of said thread.
Cut to ...
A much more chastened and humbled, yet more knowledgeable me. It has been incredibly fulfilling reading the back-and-forth, learning about the etymology of "Macaroon" and "Macaron", as well as the general role language plays in our shared understanding of the culinary world around us.
In a short amount of time I've been humbled, started a quest to learn how and attempt to make Parisian (nee Gerbet) Macaroons, absolutely destroyed my poor kitchen cupboards and harrassed my amazingly beautiful and patient wife, added an item to my Christmas list, and then posted this.
Thanks CH!
The French food blog Chocolate and Zucchini has a number of macaron entries
"I thought it was time to dispell a common misconception: the delicate confection, made of two rounds of shiny and smooth almond meringue sandwiched together by a creamy filling, is not the only type of French macaron one can enjoy."
Clotilde goes on to give a bit of history (the light sandwich dates back only to about 1900), and describes an older style, Macarons d'Amiens, as an almond version of the coconut macaroon.
has cornmeal
is a coconut version, with a French name of Rochers à la Noix de Coco
re: Sal Vanilla
Have you tried the ones from Pierre Herme? :) (BTW, the dog is VERY cute, Sal V)
re: menton1
I have not. I went to his site. Why are his to die for? Curiosity is piqued. I never give up on the chance of falling in love with a cookie.
And I will pass on the compliment. She is not the least conceited.
I ate macaroons as a child. I have never had a macaron. I think this question is one of Francophilia rather than linguistics. I speak English, therefore I have duck, not canard; lamb, not agneau; and macaroons rather than macaron.
If you want to be linguistically pure, use the Italian word, since the English and French words are both from that anyway.