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Rosario Dawson in "Gimme Shelter." | ROADSIDE ATTRACTIONS
Updated: April 14, 2014 4:39PM
LOS ANGELES — Rosario Dawson didn't grow up in luxury. Times were dicey for the woman who did a teenage stint living in a squatters' apartment on the Lower East Side.
"We had cast iron stoves, plastic for windows and plywood for a door. You had to bring buckets upstairs to shower," she says, adding, "It was quite an experience being so poor. But it was also a powerful experience."
Dawson brings some of that gritty reality to her new film "Gimme Shelter," opening Friday. Vanessa Hudgens plays a homeless teenager living in the streets of New York City. Dawson is her abusive mother.
"I play a woman who is worn down by life. She has been struggling for so long that she can't face her demons. She just lives with them. She's in total denial about her responsibilities," says the 34-year-old actress.
"The woman I play is really angry. Her emotions are at the surface. But she's street tough. She's all about surviving the day, which is what a lot of people do, day in and day out. She's messing up, but can't admit that to herself."
She says the film required her to dig deep.
"I had to go to the most unattractive places a woman can go — and so did Vanessa. We're friends and we really wanted to take this journey together, but it was an emotional one," she says.
It's a busy year for Dawson, who also plays Gail again in the sequel "Sin City: A Dame to Kill For" out this summer. The eclectic cast also includes Bruce Willis, Eva Green, Jessica Alba, Mickey Rourke, Josh Brolin, Lady Gaga and Jaime King.
As for plot secrets, she says, "All I can tell you is Gail is back and she's a total bad---. And it's eight years later. I'm not allowed to say anything else."
She also stars in "Chavez," also featuring John Malkovich, America Ferrera and Michael Pena as civil rights leader Cesar Chavez.
Dawson plays labor leader Dolores Huerta in the film, directed by Diego Luna.
"The more I got to know Huerta, the more I was impressed and a little frightened about making sure I got it right," she says of the role.
She's also trying to get things right working with the Boys and Girls Club.
"All of us need help in some capacity. You can't sit it out," she says. "It's about helping each other, but most of us don't know where to start. The problems feel too big. You feel helpless, so you're stuck.
"Just commit to helping and do one small thing today," she says. "Make a phone call and get involved. It sounds cliche, but it really does start with helping just one person."


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At $23, You Have No Excuse to Not Buy a Chromecast
Even at full price, the $35 Chromecast is one of the best deals in tech, so when it's a full 1/3 off, it'd almost be criminal not to buy it. And when you factor in the two free months of Hulu+, you're really only paying about $10 for the hardware. [Chromecast, $23] »

subset: commoncrawl


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Why Do People Leave Orthodox Judaism? Why Do People Stay?
This article originally appeared on finkorswim.com. The most common question I was asked after The Summit last spring was if I learned anything particularly insightful into the Orthodox Jewish experience to explain why some people stay in Orthodox Judaism and why others leave. People really want to know the answer to this question. I think


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ASAP Group
The Automated Scheduling, Optimisation and Planning (ASAP) research group carries out multi-disciplinary research into mathematical models and algorithms for a variety of real world optimisation problems. ASAP research work aims to set the following research directions on the international agenda:
- Modelling the complexity and uncertainty inherent in complex, real-world problems across a wide range of application areas including airport optimization, cutting and packing, educational timetabling, healthcare, network routing, personnel scheduling, portfolio optimization, production scheduling/rescheduling, public transport optimization, space allocation, transportation logistics optimization and vehicle routing.
- Developing intelligent systems that can automatically aid the design and implementation of more efficient, effective, reusable, easier-to-implement/deploy/use general computational search methods that are applicable to a range of real-world problems.
- Developing rigorous mathematical theories for a more profound understanding of real world problems and effective design of intelligent decision support systems.
Our expertise in Computer Science and Operational Research allows us to bring a unique and novel perspective to traditional Operational Research problems, and also to bring new real-world problems to the Computer Science community.
10 Fully Funded PhD studentships in ASAP and the School of Computer Science.
Ender Ozcan took over the role of deputy director of NATCOR (A National Taught Course Centre in Operational Research) from Prof Jeff Griffiths. NATCOR is a collaboration between twelve universities including the University of Nottingham to develop and deliver training through taught course provision in Operational Research (OR) to PhD students (especially those funded by EPSRC).
ASAP co-organised the 10th International Conference on the Practice and Theory of Automated Timetabling ( PATAT 2014). Ender Ozcan co-chaired this year s conference, held in York from 26-29^th of August, with Bob John and Tim Curtois acting as the organising committee members. The biennial PATAT conferences have been a forum for both researchers and practitioners to exchange ideas about real world timetabling and advanced decision support solutions. The programme of this year's conference featured 76 presentations which represent the state-of-the-art in automated timetabling: there were 5 plenary papers, one of them being from the Scientia Ltd representing practitioners, 26 full papers, 38 extended abstracts, 5 system demonstrations and 2 practitioner key notes.
|Ahmed Kheiri (PhD student) and Mohamed Elsayed (MSc student) joined as a team ranked 3rd in the junior category of the ROADEF/EURO challenge on rolling stock management with a multi-stage hyper-heuristic method. The challenge was entitled as TRAINS DON'T VANISH! Initially, there were 13 junior teams registered across the world and the competition took about a year time. The teams formulated and developed their solutions to the problem from scratch based on the description provided by the organisers. Ahmed presented their hyper-heuristic solver at the 20th Conference of the International Federation of Operational Research Societies in Barcelona.
Transport Management Systems provider Microlise, along with partner the University of Nottingham, has been awarded funding of £359,000 from the UK's innovation agency, the Technology Strategy Board (TSB).
|British Columbia Ferry Services Inc. (BC Ferries), Canada announced a $252 million vessel replacement programme involving three Intermediate Class Ferries (media release). This decision was supported by independent research projects by Abraham Punnen and Daniel Karapetyan conducted in 2011-2013. The researchers validated the efficiency of the proposed fleet configurations in terms of the potential operational cost and level of service relative to the current vessels in service. Abraham Punnen and Daniel Karapetyan recently won the second Practice Prize at the Canadian Operational Research Society conference for their work with BC Ferries.
Daniel Karapetyan is currently working on a new project with BC Ferries, supporting the development of new schedules for the introduction of Intermediate Class Ferries in the Southern Gulf Islands region where two of the three new vessels will be operating..
|Prof Graham Kendall explains how football fixtures are set in an article in The Conversation.
|Duc-Cuong Dang and Per Kristian Lehre's work on Evolution under Partial Information has been nominated for a best paper award at GECCO'2014 as only paper from the theory track. They show that populations in appropriately tuned evolutionary algorithms aggregate enough information to optimise problems efficiently, even when the quality of individual solutions is highly uncertain.
|Dr Daniel Karapetyan and Abraham Punnen received the second prize in the Practice Prize Competition at CORS 2014 for a work on Operational Research Models and Algorithms for Fleet Size Planning and Schedule Optimisation for the British Columbia Ferry Services Inc.
|Prof Graham Kendall explains the math behind exam timetabling in an article in The Conversation.
|Journal of Operational Research Society, one of the highly respected journals in Operational Research, has selected ten of the most influential papers. Three of these 10 most influential papers are co-authored by members of ASAP: Jason Atkin, Graham Kendall, Ender Özcan, Rong Qu, Stefan Ravizza, and Huanlai Xing. All the 10 articles are available for download for free.


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Seeking information on John L. Poage, b. abt. 1825, died in the Civil War. He married Cynthia Ann Corsey Nov. 8, 1842 in Harris Co., GA. I would love to correspond and exchange information with anyone researching this family.
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106 Entrada Dr ( )
Santa Monica, CA 90402-1249
Neighborhoods: Pacific PalisadesView Hours
106 Entrada Dr ( )
Santa Monica, CA 90402-1249
Neighborhoods: Pacific PalisadesView Hours
January 5, 20094.0
One of LA's hottest places for breakfast and lunch is Patrick's Roadhouse. A Santa Monica beach landmark on the corner of Pacific Coast Highway and Entrada Drive, Patrick's Roadhouse isn't well-known to the general public. Once an actual rail house and brothel, it 's been a favorite underground eatery of the stars since the 1970's.
On the outside, even with its bright green color overlooking the ocean, the place looks a bit worn. Inside you'll feel like you're eating in a crowded antique store. The wooden tables and chairs are from yesterday, and framed memorabilia, antique paintings and knick-knacks fill the walls. It all adds up to an incredibly comfortable place to chill and hang out. They even offer board games for patrons to spend time and enjoy themselves at their tables.
Service can be mixed. Sometimes fast, sometimes not, but they always try to make you feel at home. As long as you come with people you like and you're not in any hurry, you won't really care. Dress is casual with a capital 'C.' Shorts, T-shirt, flip-flops and trucker cap are perfect summer attire to match the local crowd.
The food is classic Americana diner fare with their own delicious twists and more than generous portions. In fact, Patrick's received great exposure on TV Food Network's "Diners, Drive-ins and Dives" in 2007 when host Guy Fieri raved about the food and burgers.
Their heavenly burger is the "Rockefeller, Hughes, Getty, Onasis Burger." Most of their burgers cost around $8, but for a whopping $15.00 this one comes with mushrooms, jack cheese, a dab of sour cream and CAVIAR! It's as good as a $25 burger from a fancy restaurant. All sandwiches come with deliciously seasoned crispy fries.
Can't decide what to order? Fish and Chips are world famous here and a smart bet. Be hungry because they serve you Moby Dick.
Yet their omelets are so delicious. Try The Number 5: Roasted peppers, feta cheese, chilies and sauteed onions. Yum! Belgian waffles, pancakes and French toast are tasty options as well. Combine them with a bottomless cup of coffee and you get the perfect breakfast to cure a 'morning after.' There's no 'hair of the dog' as they do not serve any alcohol. But don't forget a slice of Banana Cream Pie can also help make you feel better.
Much appreciated on the menu is the offering of turkey sausage for those who don't eat pork.
Parking is definitely an issue since they do not have their own lot. If you live nearby or up for a bike ride, the beach bike path passes across the street with a pedestrian tunnel crossing PCH a block from the restaurant. Leave your bike locked up in front.
There's a parking lot up Entrada Drive on the right hand side. Weekends it costs $3 with validation. The attendant arrives around 10am. And there is some metered street parking.
Before or after your meal, be sure to get your feet wet in the Pacific ocean.
August 24, 20074.0
Great Food. Great service. Classic. The breakfast is a deal and soo good. Get the lox scramble special…its secret, the carmalized onions and cream cheese they put in make in one of the best lox dishes in the history of the world…ever
March 11, 2009
Silvio is a great host and sets the warm and inviting tone. The food is good, the coffee is hot, and it's fun to hang out there, especially at breakfast time. If you want to make a change from the menu it's no problem. Pleasant service.…
December 30, 2008
Patrick's Roadhouse holds some kind of sporadic appeal for my husband. We tried it a few years ago, but when he wanted to try it again, all I could remember was that the the dining area is narrow--which meant the food was not memorable. …
These dishes from the Patrick's Roadhouse menu are contributed by Menuism users directly, as part of a restaurant review, or as part of an image upload.


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Define "Grinder"
- k
- knucklesandwich Apr 4, 2012 01:42 PM
As I understand it, the grinder comes from somewhere between New Haven and New London. It's a cold sandwich on a hero-y roll, made with cold cuts, or tuna salad, provolone, sliced iceberg lettuce and tomato. Oil and vinegar dressing is customary, but not mandatory.
A good grinder doesn't need much protein. The bread has to be very fresh. And the soul of the sandwich is the generous pile of shredded lettuce that cushions the other contents. At a grinder shop near Niantic (perhaps the epicenter of grinder country), in the mid-sixties, the woman behind the counter told me that the sandwich itself was named for "the ground-up lettuce".
That means a hot grinder isn't really a grinder, no matter what they call it.
Depends where you are. Same thing is a grinder here, a sub there, a hoagie somewhere else, a torpedo elsewhere, and a hero someplace I used to be.
And I'm sure there are other names, too.
I doubt any of them can be strictly and scientifically defined.
Edit: I've heard it called Grinder in central Maine, and a sub when I went to school in New London (and no, not at the Coast Guard Academy!)
There are idiots out there who insist a slider is only a specific type of mini burger cooked with onions and cry loudly when someone 'misuses' the term. Then there's the rest of us who have moved on to using the term 'slider' to mean anything on a little bun.
Grinder is a similar situation - it's come to mean the same thing as a submarine/whatever. You might find a pedant or two clinging to the 'traditional' defition, but we can safely ignore them.
re: ratbuddy
Just because you call your Barcalounger a '68 Buick doesn't make it so. Likewise, calling your grilled cheese sandwich a grinder.
re: Perilagu Khan
Consensus is different from a single oddball. Your examples are disingenuous.
re: ratbuddy
I daresay your big-tent definition of a slider is not the concensus. Hence, peekie toe crab foam with passionfruit aioli on a small bun would not meet the majoritarian definition of a slider, yet you said "anything" on a little bun.
At any rate, I reject descriptive rather than presecriptive ontology and heuristics. Increasingly, I see so-called "professional" writers incorrectly using the apostrophe to indicate the possessive of "its", but that doesn't make it correct and it never will.
re: Perilagu Khan
well put.
re: Perilagu Khan
Among pedants and purists, sure, slider means a very specific type of sandwich. Out in the real world, if you put peekytoe sliders on a menu, you can be assured people will know exactly what you mean - although you might be better off phrasing it 'crab sliders.'
Language changes over time, and the only folks who fight to stick with an outdated meaning are the ones who enjoy correcting folks who use the word 'wrong.'
re: ratbuddy
I'm not talking about slider with a modifier in front of it. Put the word slider alone on a menu, then serve it with peekytoe and passionfruit and see how long you stay in business.
Linguistic change is not the same thing is linguistic decline. I accept the former and mock the latter, along with its abettors.
re: Perilagu Khan
"...You might find a pedant or two...."
And on cue, one appears!
re: Perilagu Khan
I suspect that putting modifiers in front of words like 'slider' and then eventually removing said modifier once people begin to associate the word 'slider' with any small sandwich using a bun is exactly how the definition of that particular word begins to change.
Not that I think there's anything wrong with that. I fall distinctly into the descriptive rather than prescriptive camp of linguistics.
I grew up just west of New Haven and there is no clear definition of a grinder. They can be hot, cold, on stale bread, on fresh bread...a grinder is a hoagie, a sub, a wedge, a torpedo, depending on where you are from.
I never heard of this "ground up lettuce" business. Even if that woman is right, they will always be known as meatball grinders to me, piping hot with no lettuce in sight.
re: qbdave
I grew up in Middletown, CT and every sandwich
on a roll (sub, hoagie, etc.) is called a grinder to me.
I also know chocolate sprinkles on ice cream as
shots, so there's that, too. :)
re: dennisl
Same thing in RI - we had meatball grinders, eggplant parmesan grinders, italian coldcut grinders, tuna salad grinders, cheeseburger grinders . . . And chocolate sprinkles on ice cream were jimmies.
re: cookie monster
I grew up in Pawtucket and I think that is generally the case, but I seem to recall that for some reason, steak and cheese (not cheesesteak as in Philly) were called subs, not grinders.
re: cookie monster
I grew up in Western Mass. A grinder to me is anything on a sub roll.
re: cookie monster
Another Rhode Islander--if it was on a long roll it was a grinder. And I called the steak and cheese one a grinder too.
re: dennisl
Shots! me too. I grew up in W. Hartford...circa 1970. I was in Key West last spring ordering an ice cream cone "with shots" and the guy who waited on me knew exactly what I meant. Of course he was about my age and I discovered...he was from Vernon, CT.
re: masha bousha
our family called chocolate sprinkles "ants"
re: betsydiver
GET OUT! No ants on my cone, please. What a thought! Oh, that is too funny! Now shots, sprinkles, jimmies, those are A-OK. ;)
ETA: Did you ever go to a friend's house and ask for ants on your ice cream? What was their reaction? That had to have been a Kodak moment!
I grew up in Colchester, and any kind of sandwich on the Italian style roll i a grinder, hot or cold. I lived in Arlington, Va for a few years after college, and I could always tell when someone was from Connecticut because they called it a grinder :)
re: Veggo
Veggo, youv'e been away from CT way too long................
Lower Fairfield county, lower Westchester and northern Bronx......WEDGE
Growing up in New Haven./Hamden 50s and 60s Grinders were made with cold cuts, subs were made with hot food such as meatballs.
But it all changed
I worked for Leon's Bakery when Subway started in business and order our grinder rolls to make their subs.
I went to college in Philadelphia more than 40 years ago. A hoagie roll is not the same bread as used for a sub/grinder in new England. The stuffing may be the same but the bread is not close.
The wedge of the Bronx/Yonkers/Stamford area is made by cutting a section off a loaf and splitting and filling. They don't use a full loaf as most subs or grinders do.
Unfortunately, there is no real differnce today, the names are interchangable and meaningless.
re: bagelman01
Growing up the Hartford area in the 50's / 60's, hot oven grinders were very common. Never heard of a sub, hoagie, torpedo, etc until I moved out of CT.
Fully agree that none seem to compare with a typical CT grinder as the bread / roll used outside of CT never seems to have the quality of a typical CT grinder roll. Others may use similar cold cuts, meatballs, Italian sausage, etc, but the end result never seems to match up due to the bread / roll. The bread is especially critical for making an edible hot oven grinder.
Oddly, Subway was started / is based in CT, yet it has about the worst bread / rolls of any sub, etc shop (never mind their typically low / poor quality cold cuts, etc). They may have started out with a good roll, but they obviously dropped all the quality when they expanded.
re: Clams047
Most of the grinder shops in the Hartford area seem to use bread from the same bakery. Its OK but its too soft and lacks the soul of bread from Arthur Ave. in the Bronx or what you find in Philadelphia.
re: brookerme
Can't speak about grinder roll quality in the Bronx, but having lived in NJ, I was never pleased with any grinder roll bread in PA nor NJ. NJ / NYC has some excellent rye, etc, but I've always found the grinder / sub rolls outside of CT to be lacking. It may be that I was brought up on CT type bread & have a preference for that style.
I'm currently in RI where the bread (with a few exceptions) is typically bad - especially in the sandwich / sub / shops. One would think with its Italian population, they'd have learned something about CT/NY/NJ breads.
re: Clams047
I don't think people in RI care in the slightest what anyone in CT does. 8<D
re: Clams047
by 1974 Subway stopped buying freshed baked rolls from Leon's bakery and started baking their own rolls in the store using a commercially made frozen bake off white style italian dough. The instore ovens and the baking nowadays in 'rubber' sleeves cannot produce a quality roll, just mush.
And if you're old enough, you remember the riools Subway used could stand up to having a wedge cut out of the top and be filled. They nevr cut the roll from the side as they do now. The current roll would smush to nothingness if they attempted tp cust a wedge out from the top.
re: Clams047
Hey...I'm from Manchester, Connecticut...1930-1950...Best Grinders were made at a
restaurant (?) in Manchester Green...sort of on your way to Coventry Ct....I have lived
all over the country (husband in Navy) and no other place in the world could ever
surpass the ones made in Manchester Green...The pizzas made in Manchester were
also the best ever. also
North West Coast sounding off here. I've seen them both hot and cold. My favorite is hot, with salami, pepperoni, ham and melted cheese on a hoagie roll. Then top with dill pickles, tomatoes, green pepper and diced tomatoes - then sprinkled with a little olive oil and salt and pepper. We called this a "garbage grinder". So I think it is just a "word". It's like a discussion in another thread about scalloped potatoes vs. au gratin - cheese or no cheese.
re: mmalmad
I am a Westchester County NY transplant to Florida, and the term "wedge" is as much a code for me that the other person grew up in my neighborhood, as it is any definition for a certain sandwich. Its a term of great affection by locals in Westchester, especially Yonkers, NY, and apparently over the Westchester border into a small portion of Connecticut.
But there is a little more to it, according to my memory banks and ---Encyclopedia of American Food and Drink, John F. Mariani [Lebhar-Friedman:New York] 1999 (p. 154)
Check out this link: http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodsandw...
Per the foodtimeline site:
Term used exclusively in Westchester County, NY (Yonkers, especially)
"Wedge (for the shape of the sandwich, usually cut at an angle) is another common alternative for hero..."
OK, a sandwich being cut at a certain angle is probably not a big deal, but from these things, famous sandwich names are made.
The current chowhound thread is dedicated to the burning question, "Define grinder." Check out a Chowhound thread, "Defining Wedges" (I kid you not!) started by misohungrychewlow in June, 2007, and going strong until 2009.
That foodtimeline.org link goes on and on about a lot of different sandwiches, and is an interesting read, much trivial pursuit, yes, but for chowhound types, still interesting.
re: Florida Hound
Ever have a Landy's Wedge?
Another Yonkers guy in FL
re: cavandre
I have only read the legends. My Yonkers Wedges are still the stuff of wonderful memories of Ruzak & Zucks. I think R & Z and Landy's are long gone. But I'm glad to hear the population in Florida has a few people educated around Getty Square, Central Avenue, Warburton, and the old stomping grounds.
ran across this place a while back when looking for something else entirely. More on the definition of a grinder and how it came to be.... of course no clue as to how real the definition is, but it makes more sense than referring to chopped lettuce as ground lettuce.
The term "Grinder" can be traced back to the east coast, where, during WWII, Italian Immigrants set up sandwich shops close to the shipyards. These supersized sandwiches were a favorite of the hard working men who ground rivets off the warships. The friendly shop owners referred to these men as grinders and the ever-popular sandwiches also came to be known as Grinders.
re: KaimukiMan
I want one of those red-eye ham sandwiches.
re: KaimukiMan
I've heard a similar story but it said that they were called subs because of their resemblance to submarines..:)
I grew up in NY and they were called heros. Ms 9 grew up in CT..grinders. I think of subs, heros, grinders and hoagies as pretty much interchangeable..just depends where you grew up.
Same deal with carbonated beverages. I grew up calling it soda and some call it pop.
Some 40+ years ago, when I used to follow Formula One racing, we'd pick up grinders at a place in Riverside, CA and bring them to the raceway for lunch. They were what we'd now call a sub or hoagie - meat, cheese, shredded lettuce and Italian dressing come to mind, but I'm sure there was even more on them. One sandwich was sustenance for an entire, long day. I tried to find the place a couple of years ago, but apparently it's long gone, and nobody we asked (all under age 40) even knew what we were talking about.
re: judybird
Growing up in central NJ, where hoagies are king, my exposure to grinders was and remains Steck's Deli at the Bridgewater Circle Shopping Center immediately adjacent to Raritan Valley Country Club. As a caddy from age 12, making $20. Cash per round carrying doubles (2 bags) we could cut across the 10th hole to Steck's between rounds and pick up a fresh baked torpedo roll loaded with ham, salami, provolone, slices of onions and red bell peppers dressed in thousand island salad dressing with a couple crisp lettuce leaves. All for $0.50 plus another quarter for a coke and we were living life huge. We'd use the quarter change to tip Benny the caddy master who would get us out for a second round and another $20. Cash and we'd head home with $39. In our pocket. No bs about taxes or withholding crap. We earned it by our Own sweat and had a nice grinder along the way. Back then, could have eaten two plus their great thick pickle slices. Today, one is enough. Same recipe, still sliced in half on the diagonal. Price is up to $5.50 today but to their credit. Never reduced in size. I can still get good to great hoagies but only one central jersey grinder and that is Steck's. 40 years later still going strong!
re: ThanksVille
Cool story.
I lived in Lawrenceville two years and now regret never having made it over to Steck's.
re: ThanksVille
That sounds great. The story, and the sandwich. Makes me want to get up that way just to try one of those.
re: ThanksVille
Wow thanks for this. Sounds like a similar story to me!
re: judybird
judybird, if you'd like to replicate that remembered sandwich, it sounds an awful lot like the ones from the Claro's markets. There are better versions than theirs, I'm sure, but they make them fresh every day and they're cheap - I think the big ones are about $6.
re: judybird
I forgot that Formula One ever ran at Riverside. I thought the the US GP was always at Watkin's Glen.
The grinders you describe sound like what I bought at Rocco's Sandwiches at Reading Terminal Market in Philly.
re: judybird
Hey Judy, my mom grew up in that area in the 50's. She uses the term grinder for what I'd call a sub - I never figured out why. Sounds like a micro-regional thing.
re: judybird
"Some 40+ years ago, when I used to follow Formula One racing, we'd pick up grinders at a place in Riverside, CA and bring them to the raceway for lunch."
WOW!! I went to college in Riverside when the raceway was still there...... and my roommates and I practically lived on D'Elia's Grinders'.....well............grinders. I believe it's still there, but haven't though to stop to be sure on my occasional drive out that way. Have to remember to do that.
My conclusion is that what you call that kind of sandwich is about where you're from, more than about where you've had one. Here is SoCal they're usually called subs or heroes, but hoagie is not uncommon. Grinder, though............. only at D'Elias's in my experience.
Depends on who you talk to, and where. This country 3/4 of a century ago, was filled with big ol' sandwiches for working class guys to take to, or buy for lunch. Generally, the rolls were of a "sturdy" sort, so that the contents didn't make 'em soggy.
What someone called 'em varied from city to city, ethnic group to ethnic group, and if someone was transplanted, they often brought the "old" name with 'em.
So, sub, grinder, hoagie, po'boy, (mufaletta, even!) even the ancient "hero sandwich"! (haven't seen that one in a while!)
re: silverlakebodhisattva
"Hero" was a misspelling of gyro … but yeah, after several hundred thousand years of carrying stuff around wrapped in bread we've generated so many names for it in so many places it seems silly to try to nail any of'em down and proclaim that to be the True, the One and Only.
re: Will Owen
Not so, Hero appears in written form in New York City as early as 1937 and has been attributed to a food writer at The New York Herald Tribune. The Gyro really didn't arrive on the NY scene until about 1960. My father wa born in NY in 1922 and lived there until 1946 and ate pleny of Hero sandwiches. I remember them in the 50s as well.
Manganero's Hero Boy has been selling them on 9th Ave in NY since 1956, following an older family tradition.
re: bagelman01
I think you're right about this. Gyro and Hero are an odd coincidence and nothing more. Am I correct in assuming that "gyro" comes from "spin," as in the meat slowly spins on the spit? That was always how I thought of it.
re: bagelman01
Bagelman01, I'm perfectly aware that any New Yorker or former New Yorker assumes that whatever happens in New York happens there FIRST (and better than any subsequent copycats), but it ain't necessarily so. Greeks were making gyros an awfully long time before 1960; even if "heroes" showed up in 1937, they could easily have been invented somewhere else where someone knocked off a Greek sandwich whose name he knew only by hearsay.
re: Will Owen
#1 I am born and bred and still live in Connacticut almost 60 Years.
Hero is a NYC term
Guess what, the Greeks didn't invent the Gyro. back when Greece was just a backwater province of TURKEY Gyros were available in Turkey. In other parts of the middle East it was called schwarma, which doesn't rhyme with HERO.
Your maybe it could have been knocked off etc, etc sounds like the nonsense of the bride's father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Greeks and Greek Americans are entitled to take pride in their heritage, even a sandwich stolen from the Turks ( who ruled Greece for a really long time). But don't just make false claims with nothing to back it up.
re: bagelman01
haha, "Give me any word and I'll tell you the Greek word it comes from"
re: kubasd
now where did i put that windex???
re: bagelman01
bagelman, I didn't claim that the Greeks "invented" the gyro, only that they named it. Talking about "inventing" any food of this sort is just silly anyway, like suggesting that the Earl of Sandwich "invented" the sandwich. My sole interest, and it's an abiding interest, is philological: the migration of food names from culture to culture, such as burek = boereg = pierogi = piroshki. The 1001 names for cabbage, for dumplings, and - yes - for sandwiches. Nobody's attacking anyone's culture here by suggesting that your own culture's favorite food might have arrived from elsewhere. (And bringing up the Turkish tyranny over Greece is a good bit more offensive in some quarters than any kind of food fight!) As for any "insulting, NY-bashing comments", this NY attitude I mentioned was spelled out to me in great detail by a born-and-bred New York woman, who explained that "We believe that anything that New Yorkers don't eat is crap, and anything New Yorkers do eat is crap unless it's made in New York." My experience, however, is that although she insisted that her people were the most provincial on the planet, that attitude is a lot more common than she thought, as witness the many extended arguments on these boards (like this one) about whose version of anything is the One True Whatever. I don't know about you guys, but I get into them to learn stuff and maybe change my own mind if that's called for.
re: silverlakebodhisattva
I swear I was in Maine once and saw this type of sandwich called "an Italian." Not just the ones with Italian meats, but you could get a turkey Italian, roast beef Italian, pastrami Italian... but I haven't been back to that little town (Bridgton?) and I've never seen that usage elsewhere. Maybe I made it up.
re: yellowstone
Nope, I've heard it, too...and worse yet, "EYE-talian"...oh, well!
In Connecticut, no matter if it's hot or cold, stuffed with meatballs, cold cuts or cutlets, it's a grinder if it's on THAT kinda roll. Back in the day, my uncle got his grinder rolls from Moon Bakery in Hartford (now gone, both the uncle and the bakery). Gotta guess my grandparents got their grinder rolls there, too. Their grinders were so loaded it was hard to get your mouth around them--a true mom & pop grinder shop--the Silver Lane Deli (East Hartford, CT), sadly gone along with my grandparents. Thankfully, Maple Giant and Franklin Giant in Hartford make grinders very similarly, so I can still get a taste of "the store" if I'm in the area.
the proud granddaughter of Eva and Fred (RIP, ILYA)
re: kattyeyes
LOVE Franklin Giant.... their eggplant parm (at least in my memory) is still the best I've ever had.... still crispy from the fryer, with perfect sauce and melty cheese....
re: kubasd
Your description is making me hungry, knock it off! ;) That's exactly as it should be!
re: kattyeyes
I'd never had an eggplant parm sub before having it at Franklin's Giant, so that is still my gold standard
re: kattyeyes
you're up there in RedSux country
Down in the Yankes part of Connecticut, it may be a sub, a grinder and in lowest Fairfiled county a wedge all of which may be made on the same roill.
Agree with you about Maple and Franklin, what I cannot tolerate is Nardelli's. They don't get my vote for best grinder in CT.
re: bagelman01
Hey, don't blame me. Our family is split on that (Yanks/Sox)!
I hear you--Nardelli's is nowhere close to the same league as Maple, Franklin and my Nanny & Poppy's! But I like them OK enough for a local option. I like that "classic mix" of theirs (a la giardiniera) for something a little different. BUT they're a franchise now and, you know, they weigh meats and blahblahblah like little mom & pop shops never do--that's the big difference, if you ask me. I honestly think Poppy did it by looks as he sliced away. He sure as hell never threw anything on a scale, he just loaded up that grinder roll...and chatted away with customers b/c that chiacchierone thing seems to run in the family, HA HA. I can still hear Nanny yelling at him to get going and stop yapping, "FRED!!!"
Down your way, I LOVE Gaetano's in Stratford, though I am long overdue for an excuse to have lunch there...like a bike ride...hmmmm. Thank you for helping me remember! :) It is good to live in grinder country. That wedge thing just bothers me (sorry)...it's just an "i" away from uncomfortable, you know?!
re: kattyeyes
I have to say, I've never heard it called a wedge.... I like your comparison of it to a wedge(i)e, ke :) haha I know that it's called one in that part of the state... but maybe that's why I prefer my red sox side hehe
re: kattyeyes
Back in the 1970s when I worked for Leon's Bakery in Hamden, we baked the rolls for Subway and lots of hard rolls and rye bread for all the local delis. If it was really cold, the rolls and bread didn't proof as large as in the heat. They always weighed the same when the raw dough was portioned. Murray Rosenberg, the owner of Fox's Deli in Hamden (originally on Legion Avenue in New Haven) used to call me yelling: "The bread is too small today, now I have to put more meat on it to make the sandwich look the right size"
No one weighed what they sliced, delimen (and I was one after the bakery) looked at the product and eyeballed what was an appropriate amount to serve.
re: bagelman01
Thanks for sharing your story and validating no one weighed what they sliced. That's funny about the bread being too small, too. Imagine--quality bread at Subway! Those were the days, my friend. We've come a long way in the wrong direction, baby, haven't we?
re: bagelman01
bagel, you would remember the Lupi-Legna bread trucks making their rounds with fresh grinder rolls.
re: bagelman01
I, too, remember Subway when it made its debut in CT oh-so-many moons ago...imagine my shock when I went into one after living in MA for 25 years...what a letdown!
Growing up in Washington state, we had hot over grinders that were to die for. Our local pizza joint made them. My favorite was the canadian bacon with extra cheese. Yum!
re: KaimukiMan
i haven't heard them called that in years
re: KaimukiMan
but it would have nothing to do with grinders, subs, hero, hoagies or wedges.
Dagwood Sandwiches are built on the vertical with slices of bread.
Grinders. etc are assembled horizontally. such as 6", 12" 3' party sub, etc. NEVER made out of sliced bread.
re: hawkeyeui93
Finally hawkeye i93 hit on what a GRINDER really is. I was born in Philly in 1940. HOAGIES are room temperature (best for full flavor of meat and the prov) and GRINDERS are hot out of the oven. They are call GRINDERS because the contents of this sandwich on an Italian loaf bread in of GROUND meat. Sausage-hot or mild, meatballs etc. The original grinder meat was topped with hot or mild Italian roasted peppers in a tomato sauce, then a Marinara sauce, then loaded with shredded mozzarella cheese. This was put in a hot pizza oven until the cheese was melted and very hot. The sandwich was then cut on a diagonal. Properly made, this sandwich is right up there with authentic HOAGIES and CHEESE STEAKS. Now, any one have any thoughts about real PEPPERONI ROLLS from North East W. VA? Again, total Italian. These Italians were coal minors instead of the East coast shipyard workers.
For what it worth (about as much as watered down coffee).Growing up on Cape Code in the 50's and 60's, we got grinders.or sometimes subs depending on the place...hot, cold with whatever you wanted in them.although a clam roll was ALWAYS a clam roll.and on a different bun.
surfing in Newport or Narragansett we'd get subs...along with GREAT Clam Fritters
At College in Providence, it was out to the trucks every night for grinders
Not sure I care what you call it, but serve it to me on a long roll, and make it taste good!
re: FriedClamFanatic
It's off the Grinder subject, but the best fried Clams I've ever eaten were in the little town of Mashpea.
re: captmorgan40
LOL..it's Mashpee............next town over to where i grew up.and i've had lots of great clams on Cape Cod..but the best I ever had were in Englewood FL.....by a gal who grew up in Nahant MA
re: FriedClamFanatic
Yes, I did spell Mashpee wrong. Where may I find an authentic recipe for fried clams?
re: captmorgan40
There are several on the internet, but the biggest problem with doing them at home is the mess of the brading mix and the need for a very large basket for fying. You want a quick complete immersion without too many touching one another. In most home pots, that means a max of 4 or so at a time. And, of course, they are best just out of the fryer and cold ones are not really good at all.
If you are still intent on trying it, I think there is also a mailorder co on the net that will send you the complete fixings including the clams! But it is outrageously expensive
BTW.which p[lace in Mashpee served the sub? There used to be a great clam shack called Dick and Ellie's that also had a phenomenal Roast Beef on a roll with onion and 1000 Island dressing. It was either that or clams for me there. Never had one of their subs but friends used to rave over them
That counter-woman was surely making it up. In Rhode Island at least, the story is that "grinder" is an Americanization of "grande," meaning "big" in Italian, Portuguese, and other languages. I wouldn't bet a whole lot of money on that, but it's more plausible - whatever else a grinder may be, it's certainly big. And who ever heard of "grinding" lettuce???
re: John Francis
I'll go back to what I said several days ago. The meat contents of the sandwich, an Italian loaf, is ground. Back when in Philly, this was usually sausage or meatballs, served hot, topped with red gravy and either melted provolone or mozzarello. It's not hard to understand how the HOAGIE and similar shaped sandwiches became submarines, subs, torpedos, etc, because that was the shape of the roll. Who outside of Philly knew that Hoagie was a derivitive of Hoggy meaning a shipyard worker at Hogg Island Shipyard where the airport is now? Now I'm hungry. I'll make a grinder with hot Italian sausage, hot roasted Italian peppers in sauce topped with marinara sauce and a pile of shreaded mozz cheese and heated in the oven until the cheese is piping hot.
re: captmorgan40
The only problem with that is, a grinder doesn't necessarily include sausage or any other ground meat. In fact I don't think I've ever had that in a grinder, though I have in a hoagie or sub. Emeril Lagasse, born and bred in Massachussetts, gives a grinder recipe that includes sliced salami and three kinds of cheese (two of them Italian) but nothing that's been ground. Not that you can't put ground meat in a grinder, or pretty much anything else you please, but we're talking etymology here.
re: John Francis
Salami is a ground, seasoned and cured meat in a casing. Same way with bologna, capacola, all the sausages and stuff in a casing. Check the etymology on "salami" and you will find it's of Italian origin.
re: John Francis
Now i don't know or care about the origin of the name, but let's say it came about because of using ground meat. Sounds logical.
Now, once you've named it, for whatever reason then as ingredients are added interchanged, etc. the name won't change. If a place sells grinders of sausage and meatballs for example then one day decides to put ham on the same roll they will probably call it a grinder, because it looks like the others.
No one is going to come around and say, wait we can't call that a grinder, blah, blah.
re: TroyTempest
:) The grinder police! HA HA HA! And I agree--where I'm from, it's a grinder no matter what's in it, cold cuts, beef/chicken cutlets, eggplant, meatballs, sausage, the whole nine. Grinder, grinder, grinder, grinder, grinder.
re: kattyeyes
Sort of like if "sandwich" only referred to beef....or even 2 pices of bread. Whatever the origin, the stuff in side is what matters
re: FriedClamFanatic
:) Precisely! Just as with other important things in life.
re: kattyeyes
Yep. Hot or cold, Italian or club, it's a grinder.
Also, as someone mentioned above, we had chocolate shots on our cones, occasionally we'd call them jimmies, but really anytime I heard "shots," I knew it was a CT person.
re: TroyTempest
You're right Troy. Over time most every thing strays from origins.This is especially true in culinary. Chefs and cooks change recipes a little here and a little there to suit their tastes or give a dish a certain bend that is often thought to improve on the original. Now days it's called "reinventing". As the Philly folks will tell you, go a head and reinvent the HOAGIE or the original GRINDERS all you want but give me the real thing.
re: captmorgan40
I appreciate that you have your own belief in the origin and meaning of the term, captmorgan40, but you can't bully us around like that.
"Grinder is the term of art throughout most of
New England, with the notable exception of
Boston where it is less common. The name probably
comes from the chewing or grinding your
teeth do when consuming the sandwich. It dates
to at least 1946. Many people make a distinction
between grinders and other subs in that they use
grinder to mean a hot sub, but this is not the original
sense. The original grinders were the familiar
cold cut subs we know and love. Hot sandwiches
are often known as oven grinders. And you occa-
sionally see the alliterative guinea grinder that
associates the sandwich with its Italian-American
heritage, however derogatorily."
Source: http://www.verbatimmag.com/28_3.pdf
"Shortly thereafter, when it migrated to New England, it became known as the grinder, supposedly so named because eating this long sandwich required a lot of 'grinding' or chewing."
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/help/...
PMQ has a different version, "The term "Grinder" can be traced back to the East Coast, where, during WWII, Italian immigrants setup sandwich shops close to the shipyards. These super-sized sandwiches were a favorite of the hard workingmen who ground rivets off the warships. The friendly shop owners referred to the men as grinders and the ever-popular sandwiches also came to be known as Grinders."
Source: http://www.pmq.com/mag/2003september_...
I've seen other sources supporting the PMQ version as well.
One thing is certain, noone called (or calls) them grinders simply because they contain ground meat, because they don't always contain ground meat. Ham/turkey/roast beef/whatever and cheese grinders, capicola grinders, tuna salad grinders, eggplant/chicken parm grinders, etc etc.
You mention 'capacola' as a ground meat, and suggest that folks check the etymology of salami to learn that it's an Italian word. I would suggest that you check the definition of capicola - you will find that it is not a ground meat product.
I can certainly see how it would be a nice little 'find' to have a eureka moment such as 'Ahh! Grinders are made with ground meat! Of course!'
The truth is not that simple.
Now.. I think I need a nice combo grinder. Mmm.
re: ratbuddy
Thank you for your scholarly efforts, ratbuddy. But be nice to the captain. He's no bully, and his theories about grinder evolution are no crazier than mine.
re: knucklesandwich
Thanks Knucklesandwich. My efforts to explain in the blog are based on what I learned in my formal culinary education. Part of this education was foods history. I also call on my knowledge of the sandwich history during my early years growing up in Phila. Ground meat also known a "forcemeat" has been produced for centuries. Ratbuddy is just plain wrong about capicola. Please check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capicola. No bulling, just pure fact.
re: captmorgan40
Sorry, you will not convince me that capicola is a ground meat. It's not.
re: ratbuddy
Did you read the link I provided?
re: captmorgan40
Did you?? Capicola is not ground meat. I promise you.
edit: Heck, I'll quote it. The first sentence says it all:
"Capocollo (in America, capicollo or capicolla),[1] or coppa, is a traditional Italian cold cut (salume) made from pork shoulder or neck, and dry-cured whole."
Note the last word. Whole.
re: ratbuddy
I've done deeper research; you are right. There are some cheaper lunch meats on the market that are sold as capicola but authentic Italian capicola is made from a whole cut.
re: captmorgan40
You're welcome, captain. And props to ratbuddy too.
My mom's people were from the Los Angeles area and there was a drive-in in Ontario called Grinder Haven. We LOVED their hot pastrami grinders. They would dip the cut sides of the roll in the pastrami juices and with the contrast of the cold crunch of the shredded lettuce it was just fantastic!


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5 Ways to Grow the Audience You Deserve Without Guest Blogging thinktraffic.netSubmitted by jennita May 28 2013 in Analytics 0 Comments Discuss (0) |
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Hello. I am a DK blood tank. i get comments all the time people telling me im actually one of the few non-squishy DK tanks, which makes me feel good. But i was wondering, If there is anything i could change to improve. I can replace my Onyxia trinket with the Essence of Gossamer (I was wondering which is better for blood tanking?). I am a blood tank so im gemmed for stam(yes, my meta is active, check my ring gem slot). Let me know if any productive changes could be made. THANKS :D:D I current have 36.1k health (with Ony trinket, about 37.3k with Gossamer) unbuffed. With 25.5k armor , 25.7 % dodge, 20.75 % parry. Heres my armory link. The World of Warcraft Armory
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Friday Five: The Class of 1993
Twenty years ago today, the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame inducted one of the strongest classes it's ever had: Don Schlitz, Red Lane, and Conway Twitty. The Hall of Fame just opened a new permanent exhibition gallery as part of the opening of the new Music City Center in Nashville and these three artists are featured prominently. The years have done nothing to dissipate the influence that these three writers have had on the fabric of country music history. What is your favorite Schlitz-, Lane-, or Twitty-penned track?
5. Don Schlitz – "The Gambler"
The inclusion of this iconic track seems only appropriate as the singer that made it famous, Kenny Rogers, is one of this year's inductees into the Country Music Hall of Fame.
4. Red Lane – "They Don't Make Love Like They Used To"
Eddy Arnold recorded this song first back in 1969, but here's Lane–who wrote songs recorded by Waylon Jennings, John Conlee, Dottie West, and Faron Young, to name a few–singing it himself.
3. Conway Twitty – "Hello Darlin'"
Conway Twitty released this single in 1970 and it would become his signature song.
2. Don Schlitz – "Forever and Ever, Amen"
Randy Travis is the voice of this song, but Schlitz is the pen behind it. He's written 24 Number One singles over the course of his career.
1. Conway Twitty – "It's Only Make Believe"
This was Twitty's first chart-topping hit and his only Number One on the pop charts. He's got some serious Elvis mojo going on in this track, which was co-written with Jack Nance.
9 Comments
I have the 45 and remember hearing "It's Only Make Believe" on the NYC rock radio stations in the late 50's, then wondering what happened to Twitty. Didn't know at the time that he had gone country.
Love the 2 Schlitz songs here. As a big baseball fan, I always enjoy hearing "The Greatest" with its twist at the end, a song recorded by Kenny Rogers. Schlitz's 2010 album has some very good songs including the title track, "Allergic to Crazy" as well as "About the Money" and "Work in Progress".
I like the Red Lane song "Till I Get It Right" which I have by Trisha Yearwood.
I'll forgive Don Schlitz for "The Gambler" and put him at the top of this list. I'm not familiar with the name of Red Lane, so no comment. I've never been a Conway Twitty fan. Apart from the dopey stage name he always struck me as a second rate, self-absorbed Elvis wannabee. I grew up on Johnny Cash, Marty Robbins, Eddy Arnold, and especially Merle Haggard. Compared to those artists Conway just didn't rate in my book and I'm not a fan of 70's country music in general. I will give him a brownie point for recording the duet with Loretta of "You're The Reason Our Kids Are Ugly" but that's about it…
If ya didn't grow up on it, ti's not much, eh Rick? Imagine the whole world wired to your childhood.
Can't argue with Conways success. He had a huge number of number 1 hits across the years. There was something very soulful about that growl in his voice. Would have loved to hear Conway do some old motown stuff.
Far as I know, this was the only Motown song Conway recorded–but I could be wrong. His catalogue was very deep:
On the whole 1970s country was pretty good stuff with a lot more diversity of approach than either before or after. While the 1940s and 1950s are my favorite decades for country, the 1970s saw the heydays of Charley Pride, Merle Haggard, Loretta Lynn, Conway Twitty and Cal Smith. Country radio was open to the likes of Crystal Gayle, Dottsy, Linda Hargrove, Gary Stewart and Ol' Willie and yet accepting of the likes of Stoney Edwards and Johnny Paycheck. Hard-core or Nashville Sound, Outlaw or Tex-Mex, it was all on the airwaves during this decade
Red Lane had a little success as a performer during the 1970s. "The World Needs A Melody" only barely broke into the top forty but was really popular in some markets reaching #1 on WHOO-AM in Orlando and hittting the top ten on the local charts of several Florida stations
Conway Twitty's output through 1978 was killer – he didn't get soft until the end of the decade. As a performer Conway was unique – he simply stood there and sang and let his band do the antics – no Elvis posturing for Conway and he had pipes second to none during the decade
Ignore the troll.
That's a classic song, but Conway seems to come in in the middle of it in this clip. What happened to "People see us standing there….They think you really care….
Love me some Don Schlitz songs. "The River and the Highway" and "Cheatin'" are a couple other great songs of his that come to mind, though I'm sure there are many that I am forgetting.
Current Discussion
- luckyoldsun: Jim Z-- I get the feeling Barry was this close to calling you what Kinky Friedman called his guy from El …
- Leeann Ward: Thanks, NM. I like a good pop hook, to be honest. So, maybe I need to try it again.
- Barry Mazor: OK, Jim Z. That changes everything. I surrender.
- Jim Z: to call the Dirty River Boys an "Austin area band" is still incorrect. They are based in El Paso.
- nm: Leeann, you and I often have similar tastes in more-traditional country. And, to my ears, Sam Hunt's voice and lyrics …
- Barry Mazor: Matter of fact, as always--I did. The notes say the album was recorded & mixed by and at "The …
- Roger: Looking forward to picking up the Jamey Johnson Christmas EP - love all of those songs and can't wait for …
- Jim Z: that record was recorded in El Paso. (you could look it up) and other than appearing in Austin once in …
- Leeann Ward: Yes, I can always use more dobro in my life! Thanks for the Phil Leadbetter tip! I haven't been able to …
- Barry Mazor: OK, Jim. The record's more or less out of Austin. But I'm sure they're also good in El Paso...