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Sun killing 'Rock' Sparc chip?
The word on the street today is that server maker Sun Microsystems - which is in the midst of being eaten by software giant Oracle for $5.6bn - has formally killed off the 16-core "Rock" UltraSparc-RK processor that has been in development for more than five years. The official response from Michelle Parkinson, the spokesperson …
end of an era
that's a shame; rock sounded quite exciting and i understand it was getting fairly close to production. certainly not off in vaporware land like ultrasparc V was. i think this announcement marks nothing less than the end of sun microsystems as an independent hardware designer. soon enough sun will be nothing more than a name plate on a generic intel box, but i suppose it's been going that way for a while.
i'll just keep on running my old ultrasparcs as long as i can get away with it.
incidentally, the ultrasparc II wasn't really a paragon of a successful hardware launch. yes sun was flush with cash and riding high back in the .com boom but certainly the early ultrasparc II processors had some hardware issues e.g. with caches that really drove a lot of customers crazy back then. the story is not all roses but it is true that the ultrasparc II did eventually turn into a very solid performer albeit somewhat uncompetitive in terms of raw performance versus its contemporaries.
really, in retrospect, i wouldnt say that sparc really ever had the edge in terms of pure performance. even the early sparc risc chips were not vastly more powerful than cisc contenders like the 68040 and early mips processors, and the ultrasparc was often bested in straight benchmarks by the alpha and power2. what always did it for me with sun is that they had a good all around package with excellent hardware reliability (imho; stop laughing!) and performance that while not eye popping was always acceptable.
Talk about waiting until the last minute
Next week Sun was to present a paper at the International Symposium on Computer Architecture:
"Simultaneous Speculative Threading: A Novel Pipeline Architecture Implemented in Sun's ROCK Processor"
See: http://isca09.cs.columbia.edu/papers.html
Sorry Sunshiners Sparc Shocker!
I can just imagine all the Sunshiners out there wincing with each passing sentence of that article and dreading the inevitable Bryant beasting that is to follow. Bring it on Matt. I'm in my comfy chair and the pop corn is warm, crisp and ready to eat.
It's not too late
Very interesting article. Sun's Rock failed because it was not innovative enough, in my opinion. Anybody who thinks that the multithreading CPU technologies of the last century are viable in the age of massive parallelism should lay off the dope, in my opinion. This is a lesson for all the big players in the business and it will not be the last big chip failure either. Get ready to witness Intel's Larrabee and AMD's Fusion projects come crashing down like so many Hindenburgs.
As I wrote on Ashlee Vance's NYT blog (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/sun-is-said-to-cancel-big-chip-project/?hp), after the industry has suffered enough (it's all about money), it will suddenly dawn on everybody that it is time to force the baby boomers (the Turing Machine worshippers) to finally retire and boldly break away from 20th century's failed computing models.
Sun Microsystems blew it but it's not too late. Oracle should let bygones be bygones and immediately fund another big chip project, one designed to truly rock the industry this time around and ruffle as many feathers as possible. That is, if they know what's good for them.
How to Solve the Parallel Programming Crisis:
Unfortunately, it makes sense...
Right now nothing software-wise can take advantage of the parallelism that Sun can bring to the table with Rock. It would mean a major investment in rewriting software for a single chip that maybe might have some gains on Intel and other architecture.
Right concept, bad timing.
very interesting articles, thank you for the links
I really think there is space for these processors in data warehousing environments run by oracle software, i wish you could add 4000 cheap nodes to Oracle RAC .... I wish
Expect SPARC64 to be the next casualty
Fujitsu's SPARC64 is going to quickly fade away also because they are simply just adding more low performance cores to a chip.
The latest SPARC64 VII is a perfect example of a poor design with lower performance cores.
Sun had the same problem with UltraSPARCIII to UltraSPARCIV.
Sun/Fujitsu M-Class systems suffer from low performance cores which provide an inefficient software value platform.
The SPARC64 VII quad core processors provide 26% less performance per core than the prior dual core versions.
M5000 16 core system with dual core chips: Sun M-Value = 345,000 with M-Value/Core = 21,563
M5000 16 core system with quad core chips: Sun M-Value = 255,000 with M-Value/Core = 15,938
SPARC64 VII now provides less performance per core than Sun's discontinued UltraSPRAC IV+ systems
E4900 1.95GHz 16 core system with dual core chips: Sun M-Value = 279,500 with M-Value/Core = 17,468
M5000 2.4GHz 16 core system with quad core chips: Sun M-Value = 255,000 with M-Value/Core = 15,938 8% less performance than US-IV+ per core.
Anyone running Oracle products should never buy a quad core SPARC64 chip.
Re: end of an era
"i think this announcement marks nothing less than the end of sun microsystems as an independent hardware designer."
You may be right here, however the Niagara line is very popular and they have a new chips scheduled pretty regularly through 2012. More chips that Intel has for Itanium, that's for sure. Niagara has always been on time as well. Much better history than Power or Itanium. My biggest concern is for Sun on the high-end. The M-Series is great, but I would like to see a high-end solution from Sun, not Fujitsu. Maybe Oracle will buy Fujitsu's SPARC group...
Killed != dead
I doubt very much that Sun would have shredded all the documentation and reformatted all the servers holding the data for Rock.
The IP up to this stage still exists and can be re-awakened if it makes business sense to do so.
Many Thanks
Thanks to Marc Tremblay, Jeff Thomas, Aharon Ostrer, Shailender Chaudhry strong leadership of Rock.
Marc Tremblay just chalked up one more success after MAJC.
Congrats to MSFT for the great catch!
Re: Unfortunately, it makes sense...
"...Right concept, bad timing..."
The right concept is a concept that has the proof, at least in the magnitude (30 times) as it was promised in 2002.
The timing is really bad, it's too late.
Regatta On a Chip Killer
What a funny name. It's like a movie studio funding a project called "box office flop". A non-functioning chip is "rock"! Doh!
On time and on budget
That was the reason for failure: how could anybody think ANY project could survive to such a huge delay without consequences?
Let's face the fact no one would wait a year for a brand new architecture to come to the market: eventually one will go with what is already present.
Oh well
Sigh... I guess I'll have to look at IBM or AMD for architectural cleverness. Besides, I can't cope with a suppliers' names being longer than 3 characters.
@Ian Gumby - your conclusion is wrong. There are plenty of workloads out there that fit very nicely on multi core ships.
1) Surely you've noticed the general enthusiasm for virtualisation at the moment? Alright, there's no VMWare for SPARC, but there certainly is Solaris Containers which does much the same thing only more efficiently.
2) Sun have long had the type of compiler support you need when developing code for multi-core machines (not just multi-core chips), long before anyone else. Intel have only just got round to implementing much the same kind of support in their compilers. AMD don't do compilers, but I guess one can make do with Intel's.
3) If sun are wrong on the multi-core thing then so are AMD, IBM, and Intel twice over.
4) Sun, like IBM with Power, are/were into developing processors targeted at specific markets. Hence things like on chip crypto engines, multiple ethernet controllers, and certainly in IBM's case all sorts of wierd stuff like hardware BCD FPUs. These types of features are very specific to particular market segments. For instance, an internet banking system benefits significantly from a hardware crypto accelerator, saves having to do all that maths in software, leading to a reduction in power consumption, etc. Intel don't do that.
AMD's support for that kind of market specialisation is interesting; having open sourced Hypertransport there's companies out there building bespoke modules that fit in a processor socket to allow for bespoke hardware processing with very close coupling to the x86 cores. So in a sense this is even more sophisticated a model than that of IBM's and Sun's because the end user is at liberty to decide what sort of processing they want hardware acceleration for. In a way one could argue that AMD's model will ultimately win over Sun's and IBM's; one can be part of the x86 herd, but one can also add specialist hardware things if one wants to.
Like they said, and end of an era
If Rock is killed then, like the article says, I also think that we'll see one or two more spins of the current chipsets, and then folks will be moved to something from Intel.
Which makes the Unix server market interesting - in one corner you have Intel, backed by HP and soon (?) Sun, and in the other IBM. Heck, HP support Solaris on their excellent ProLiant boxes (unlike the HP/sUX trash) so maybe they'll work even closer together. On the other side, doesn't this more or less gift the high end (32-way and above) market to Big Blue for Power6/6+/7?
@Macka: "Bring it on Matt" - hey, give him time to get in and get his orders from Mark Hurd! ;)
RE: Sorry Sunshiners Sparc Shocker!
Patience, grasshopper. You may have to put the popcorn on hold as it will take the Sunshiners a while to get over their shock, they're probably still in denial right now. But that popping sound isn't your Rice Crispies, it's Sunshiners' heads exploding.
Good morning, Sunshiners. And how are you all this morning? Please try and concentrate, now - the Grand Nova Master Ashlee Vance has said The Rock is dead. Now, which Sunshiner wants to put a starter in by claiming that Ash is just an hp salesman in disguise, trolling his own blog, and nothing but a Sun hater? Form an orderly queue - no pushing at the back! Wait your turn, Novatose.
Seriously, though, was there anyone out there that didn't realise Sun had lost the plot by 2001? They've been on the backfoot and going backwards ever since, and Rock was largely doomed by Sun's own actions before it even hit the drawing board. If Rock had arrived in 2003, when Sun still had some gravitas with the software houses, then it might have stood a fighting chance. Amusingly, it was the acceptance of Linux by those big software houses that put the first nail in Sun's coffin, and one of the most telling was Oracle's drive to make Linux a key OS. Larry is just getting Ponytail to finish what he started.
/Smug? Me? Never!
Makes sense
Oracle never intended to carry on the Sparc line ... there is nothing Oracle cannot achieve on a, intel or amd.
Plus it's better if Sun does the slaughtering rather than Oracle. If it were Oracle to do it, they may have some issues with the SEC & other anti-trust thingies.
@Louis Savain
"time to force the baby boomers (the Turing Machine worshippers) to finally retire and boldly break away from 20th century's failed computing models."
In shorthand Internetese: "Learn2TheoreticalComputerScience". Nobody worships the TM and the TM is not implemented _anywhere_ (except maybe in Lego, as seen on Youtube).
Sadly, the referenced blogpost does not exactly propose a valid solution; 12-year olds have such ideas between supper and bedtime all the time.
As for Rock; well, these are sad times when soon-bought companies can say "NO" to promising chip projects. I was really looking forward to a transactional memory implementation. But what will Oracle do with all the research & development and, I suppose, the attendant patents? Will they go to Intel or to IBM?
We were the first group to vomit in the bar
Rock is dead. Long live Rock!
For Sale Rock T-shirt
For sale 1 'Solaris Rocks' T-shirt.
Orange in colour worn once (whilst decorating) a few paint marks otherwise in good condition.
Given to me as a freebie (remember those days when Sun gave out freebie's)
Paris - because she would look good wearing one.
Not all doom & gloom
Sun customers need to know that Sun has other CPU designs in its processor roadmap beyond tha Rock that are still actively being developed. Skipping Rock is not such a big deal, the successors are way cooler (in features, dunno about die temp), as you would expect...
Dont tune out yet, Sun is still in the scene...
sun just scheduled rock demos in hamburg
this is weird - sun just scheduled a presentation of rock in hamburg, supposedly live hardware will be demoed:
also there is the presentation at isca next week:
"Simultaneous Speculative Threading: A Novel Pipeline Architecture Implemented in Sun's ROCK Processor"
See: http://isca09.cs.columbia.edu/papers.html
I doubt that the last word is spoken on this.
RE: sun just scheduled rock demos in hamburg
This is just the news not having yet been internally announced to all and Sundry, and what's left of the Sun marketing team getting on with what they have been told to do. When they canned UltraSPARC V, we had a Sun Veep (not naming names) come round only five days before the announcement to tell us US V was taped out, the silicon was ready, etc, etc.
Dropped like a rock
Bad bad execution. Horrible, horrible leadership. EVPs, VPs, Directors, ... Sure fire way to sink any project.
re: On time and on budget
Tukwila anybody? Later than ROCK and twice as expensive to produce.
re: Dropped like a rock
Can't agree anymore. Good riddance marc trembly.
Impossible to avoid an Oracle takeover...
Timothy Prickett Morgan writes, "Sun has two more weeks before its fiscal year ends and another four weeks before Sun shareholders vote on the Oracle takeover"
It sounds like management in Sun are making it impossible for the shareholders to vote against the Oracle acquisition.
Remove one of the legs of the stool, which was planned to take their midrange hardware business into profitability, there is no plan except acquisition.
Re: RE: sun just scheduled rock demos in hamburg
Good on ya' Matty. You kept your comment down to a relatively small paragraph. Though, you could have cut out half of it and still got your point across, but I think this is progress. Of course, your other frothing rant was still a bit long. You're getting there little Matty. Remember, short is just frothing, while long is a frothing rant. Keep trying...
RE: re: On time and on budget
"Tukwila anybody? Later than ROCK and twice as expensive to produce." <Yaaaaaaaawwn> Look, I know you Sunshiners are gonna try and live out the denial by squealing on about Tukwila, but the truth is Rock is dead - you can't get any later! And as for the idea of Tukwila being twice as expensive to produce, how do you know? Do you have production costs for either? Well, actually do you have cost projections for production costs for Tukwila, seeing as it's not in production yet, and as the only costs now for Rock are disposing of all remainder of the Rock team.
Instead of wasting your time on more Sunshining, I suggest you get on over to https://www.redhat.com/training/ and start anew.
demo's ?
they had a box last year. but only single chip.
couldnt make it run properly with two. or more.
come the next tape-out, the credit crunch, more fumbling.
then the guys start talking down a little the to be expected performance compared to competitors.......
very curious to see what money-machine oracle is going to think about more spending on sparc while there's little hope for solid profit.....
btw, 3rd march they put solaris INTEL on the "obsolete platform" list.
No oracle 11g coming for that, is what it says.
Will be funny to see the sudden change of mind, say next month... ;-)
or ??
re: Drooling Matty
"And as for the idea of Tukwila being twice as expensive to produce, how do you know?"
Because it is based on the most complex chip design of all time, EPIC. Even Intel's architects comment on it (looking for the article... I'll find it as soon as I select Post). Nothing new in the Itanium camp for how long? All they do is add more cores and more cache, and slowly at that. Nothing else. Niagara and SPARC64 seem to have regular updates, and on time, unlike Power and Itanium. RISC is simple and easy to update while EPIC is complex and expensive to design. Complexity translates directly to cost. Ask anyone in the microelectronics field Matty. You seem to have a lot of friends at HP... wait, that's right HP does not have any chip designers.
@AC re: Drooling Matty
"Nothing else. Niagara and SPARC64 seem to have regular updates, and on time, unlike Power and Itanium."
Regular updates unlike POWER? Gimme a break...
POWER5, 5+, 6, 6+ what was that about? IBM released POWER4 dual core 1.1 and 1.3 GHz back in 2001 and current line is 5.0 GHz on POWER6 is that not regular update for you? You serious???
ROCK (Regatta on a chip killer) was targeted at POWER4 Regatta machines that was like 8 years ago... come on... wake up dude...
And regarding Itanium yes, they upgraded from 1.1 to 1.66 GHz in the last few years, and with Tukwila delayed again, they don't have regular updates lately
Watch the industry more carefully before posting...
Paris: 'cause she also does like the POWER
RE: re: Drooling Matty
"....All they do is add more cores and more cache, and slowly at that. Nothing else....." Lol, so you missed all that stuff about DDR3 and QPI then? And so funny that a design that you say has additions so slowly and so lightly has been trouncing any SPARC design for years!
"....Complexity translates directly to cost....." Ah, so what you're really saying is you haven't got a clue how much Tukwila will cost, you're just swinging wildly in your grief. There, there, go wipe your eyes and blow your nose and try not to be such a whiner in future.
Re: RE: re: Drooling Matty
"... stuff like DDR3 and QPI..."
Ha ha ha!!! Nice Matt. You're right, those are great advances... LOL. and when will they be released? You don't know, do you? There have been regular Niagara and SPARC64 at least every 6 months. When was the last Itanium update????
Montecito came out in 2007 (2 years late) and just added dual cores... Montvale came out in 2007 and only added more cache. Two years and still no new chip! Where's Tukwila? Intel has been promising Tukwila since 2003, of course they called it Tanglewood then. Intel first said 2007, then they said 2008, then 2009, and now 2010!!!
Don't believe me...
Heck, with Intel's 3 year old chips both Sun and IBM can beat the snot out of Itanium.
Sure there are a couple of cherry picked benchmarks that HP does well on, but when
you actually run your application on the systems you see a massive performance advantage
for both IBM and Sun. Itanium is behind and if they don't start releasing chips more often than
every couple of years, then they will fall further behind. No frequency advances, no core advances, no thread advances, and their bus is sorely behind... QPI better be as good as they say, 'cuz they're hurting if not.
I was looking forward to ROCK, but SPARC64 screams at the high-end and Niagara is quickly moving up the performance/scalability ramp. You can actually see the advances of Niagara on a regular basis, while Itanium is a snail in comparison. Is Intel actually investing in Itanium anymore?
Re: @AC re: Drooling Matty
I agree. Power is updated much more often that Itanium, but Power7 is very late. They promised Power7, but give us Power6+, but where is it? Oh yeah, it came out, but no once cared.
"Watch the industry more carefully before posting..."
I know that you love your Power, but you are blinded by your love. Power6 was promised in 2006, and then moved to 2007. Power7 was promised in 2008, but then Power7 was removed from their roadmap and Power6+ showed up. Then Power7 was there, but no date (To Come). Then Power6 showed up in 2007(more than a year late). Power7 was then pushed out to 2010 (2 years late). Of course Power6 was only put on some low end systems and not pushed to the high end until 2008, more than 2 years later than promised. Power7 was removed from roadmaps again and Power6+ was promised instead.
Forgive me if I can't keep up with IBM's Roadmaps. Apparently, not even IBM can.
Of course, IBM was smart to keep their core count down and their megahertz up considering the licensing issue, but they've apparently hit the wall with this strategy. Where is their new chip?
Also, though better than HP/UX, AIX is no where near what Solaris is, let alone Linux. No wonder people want to run Linux on Power.
About IBM Power roadmap
I agree. IBM had some delays on Power roadmap.
However, I was searching for detailed roadmap information in El Reg and went through this:
A 2003 IBM roadmap, and it seems IBM did a great job on their processor launches so far.
Never saw IBM cancelling a processor project like the ones at Sun and HP (Compaq).
In terms of roadmap, I believe IBM is the only player that can really say when and what to be released.
@Bazza... not quite...
The same problem exists in Sparc VII+ chips in their m900 series (or is it m9000?)....
If you follow comp.databases.informix, there was an issue concerning how to tune the database engine in the environment because while you have 64 cores, there are two threads to a core.
The bottom line was that Informix (IBM's IDS engine) is probably the best engine to take advantage of the virtual cores, yet it can't. If you go to rock you have the same problem.
So your current off the shelf packages like Oracle, IDS, DB2, Sybase, etc ... can't take advantage of the extreme parallelism that Rock can offer.
Yes you are correct that you can have special applications developed that would take advantage, yet how many customers are there that have the budget and the staff to write these apps? (Not enough to make the chip viable)
Many articles, including those in El Reg have talked about having to upgrade the software in the OS and in applications to take advantage of parallelism offered not only by Sun, but also Intel's new chips. CRN (Computer Reseller News) had an article that talked about creating 15+ virtual microsoft servers on a 2 socket 8 core xeon 5500 box. Think about that. Instead of being able to have the software scale up, you have to instead scale down the box into multiple virtual servers to get the most out of the hardware.
Take to the example of PC users desktops where they use CPU intensive software like photoshop. Even here the lack of parallelism shows that the hardware advances go under utilized.
And that was the point. Sun's architecture is brilliant, but unfortunately no one has written applications that have mass appeal to take advantage of it....
Again, good idea, bad timing.
A Rock and a Hard Place
Shame on all of you who are talking about information that is disclosed under NDA/CDA. These are legally binding on employees and customers. Any of you old enough to remember
"Loose lips sink chips"?
I wouldn't trust you with my mother's maiden name, and yes, unlike you loose lipped idiots, I know my mother.
AC on POWER roadmaps.
You should really try to get your so called facts from other sites than BMSEER.
POWER6+ was 'promised' for 2008, and you know what they just made it. If you check out the power 560, you will see that it packs a power6+ processor.
Now we can then agree that power6+ is a bit of a disappointment. But hey it's not like SUN or HP have anything that can match it.
Well there is Niagara, but hey it needs 64 slow moving threads to do it, which is a big enough problem in it's own right.
// Jesper
RE: Re: RE: re: Drooling Matty
"Ha ha ha!!! Nice Matt. You're right, those are great advances... LOL. and when will they be released? ...." They have been released already in Nehalem. One of Intel's big advantages has been the ability to bring advances from the Itanium line into Xeon and mass-produce them, which makes the cost of introdcuing them in Itanium much lower. When Tukizilla hits those Sun refugee accounts next year it will come with proven QPI and DDR3 tech, and run current Itanium binaries - no risk! Even if Sun had managed to get Rock out the door, it would have been "bleeding-edge" and unproven, with no prior successful implementations of scout threads or transactional memory to bolster confidences, and also with precious few applications even able to take advantage of the design even with a recompile.
".....QPI better be as good as they say, 'cuz they're hurting if not....." Aaaaaaaaannnnnd once again, time to remind you which combo is king in the enterprise high end, the most demanding but most margin-rich arena - yes, hp-ux on Integrity! In fact, Integrity's sales figures have been consistently upward for years. And the reason is because the whole package is better - better performance, better stability, better features, better management, better compatibility, better range, better integration with other hp products like storage, and better support and services. Oh, and also because us customers don't think hp is about to tank in the same way Sun already has.
But to get back to Rock, there is still hope for you Sunshiners. After all, this is still unconfirmed by Sun. Not that it makes much difference - customers will believe the rumours because it is what they expect, which does make it strange that Ponytail hasn't immediately been on the phone to deny it....
RE: Sorry Sunshiners Sparc Shocker!
"Pateince, grasshopper!!" Jeez Matt, thats an insight and a half into your psyche though I suppose it's expected you'd turn up and gloat given the ribbings you've taken. I've no problem saying I'm a bit gutted that Rock is speculated as dead but lets be clear, none of us know whats planned until it comes from Oracle directly these days.
I'm more gutted it give you space to be smug! :-)
If they actually have dropped it I'm guessing they'll morph the technology into the T2 / KT lines and produce a hybrid without all the faffing around in transactional memory. I'd be reasonably certain a chunk of the pre-fetch/scout alogorythyms they've mentioned could get carried across and so forth. Perhaps Sun engineering bit off more than can be chewed in current development costs with transactional memory stuff, at least the T2 lines use relatively standard RAM.
So IF it's dead here's hoping Oracle bolts in as much of the good stuff that they can do with a bucket load of DDR 3 and bang out the chips with a cheaper footprint.
You do set yourself up for some falls though Matt so remember the pebble will be snatched if Itanic sinks or this is just rumour, I'd place money that people will spoon feed you humble pie!
RE: RE: Sorry Sunshiners Sparc Shocker!
"....Jeez Matt, thats an insight and a half into your psyche...." Yes, it's called humour, I understand that Sunshiners just don't get it seeing as how they were the only poeple not laughing when UltraSPARC IV was announced. Trying to read anything else into it is just desperation on your part to find anything to divert from the topic of the article. The rest of your post is just wishful thinking.
In fact, the rather half-hearted response and the complete lack of ranting from the usually rabid Sunshiners indicates you guys have actually been secretly expecting this just as much as the rest of us, despite your continual denials.
RE: RE: Sorry Sunshiners Sparc Shocker!
Matt, in your infinite wisdom would you also remind us that while HP Market droids were laughing at Sun's move from Sparc-iii to Sparc-iV (2004) it meant a performance bump Itanium fans were dreaming of? The move from Sparc-iV to Sparc iV+ (2005) was another good bump as well (bump = leap in Itanium terms)
Sparc-iV to iV+ was a modest frequency increase (10% on first Sparc-iV+) but a fairly big engineering change (pipelining, cache, CPU features) and meant something like a 40% perf increase with power down to 90w/socket. Again, something dreamt of by Itanium fan's like yourself back then!
I'm sure the HP sales grunts were generating hollow laughs at figures like those especially when the Itanium was something like 1.6ghz, single core (or dual core if you count two seperate CPU's bolted on one socket at 260watts/socket!!!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itanium#Processors
I think back then Sunnies weren't laughing as they were shaking their heads at Itanic slowly melting the icecaps......
Anyway, shall we both grow up a bit & just wait and see if this is a game to force a statement from Oracle? Or shall we chew & speculate more on whether there is any meat on this bone?
Re: RE: Re: RE: re: Drooling Matty
From MB: "They have been released already in Nehalem."
Regarding QPI and DDR3 in Itanium not being out yet as Itanium is (again) late.
Also, from MB: "One of Intel's big advantages has been the ability to bring advances from the Itanium line into Xeon..."
So which way is it? The GREAT advances in Itanium go down to Xeon or the more advanced Xeon advances going into Itanium. Have you gotten it yet Matt? Intel is not making money from Itanium due to extremely low volumes. Volume matters Matt. Even Sun sells twice as many SPARC CPU's as Intel sells Itanium. Intel can't make money at this rate. Intel is slowly moving Xeon features into Itainum so that they can kill Itanium all together. Will HP give Intel another 10Billion to keep Itanium afloat? I doubt it.
Solaris on Xeon anyone? I know HP loves it (obviously EDS does).
RE: RE: RE: Sorry Sunshiners Sparc Shocker!
Those of us that worked with UltraSPANKed will remember that US2 and US3 performances were generally so dire that even the "bump" of the US4 release still left Sun SPARC trailing existing Power, PA-RISC and Itanium. Just 'cos you managed to get SPARC of it's belly and crawling on it's knees didn't mean it was anywhere close enough to catch the competition. It was all the more amusing that Fujitsu's own SPARC64, developed on less money than UltraSPANKed 4, managed to be typically 20% faster for less money (I know 'cos I brought in FSC kit to replace some of our Sun Slowaris servers). You may want to recall that US4 did nothing to halt the dive in Sun sales and the continued lack of profits in the post-dotbomb period, whilst hp and IBM soldiered on with profitable businesses.
But, as you say, let's see if this gets a statement from Sun (Oracle can't comment as they don't own the bizz yet). We can also wait and see if Oracle deny the reports that they are still trying to sell on the unwanted Sun hardare bizz.....
HP and Intel are killing us all
Now I'm hearing that Intel will not RELEASE Tukzilla until Q1 2010. HP will then only get out new systems 2-5 months later!!! That's no Tukzilla kit until late 2010!!! HELP!!!
Re: RE: RE: RE: Sorry Sunshiners Sparc Shocker!
Ha Ha... MB has to go back 6 years to find a point when Sun's chips were slower than Itanium... and that wasn't for very long. Nice. Itanium has been behind since the beginning and is not getting any better. That's why HP is the only user. Even without ROCK, Niagara and SPARC64 destroy Itanium now, and the roadmap for Niagara and SPARC64 leaves Itanium in the dust. Faster bus, higher speed, more cores, more threads, more RAM. These are facts, not just opinions, such as your claim of better support and maintenance tools. Enough with the marketing speak Matt. We all know that you work for a HP Partner, you don't have to keep reminding us.
re: MB
"...Fujitsu's own SPARC64, developed on less money than UltraSPANKed 4..."
Oh, and you know this because - or are you just blowing Itaniums out your butt?
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: re: Drooling Matty
".....Regarding QPI and DDR3 in Itanium not being out yet as Itanium is (again) late...." You have obviously forgotten that the article is about Rock being so late it has been cancelled. Tukzilla hasn't been cancelled. I'd try spelling it out for you but I might have to use words with more than one constinant, which seem to fox any chance of you actually grasping the facts.
"....So which way is it?...." QPI was developed as CSI in the Itanium stream and then also moved to the Xeon stream. DDR3 was originally designed into the Xeon stream, then added to the Itanium stream. Those of us with a clue have read and understood that from the Reg articles on Tukzilla and Nehalem. I assume you were waiting for the crayon edition with all the big words taken out?
"....Intel is not making money from Itanium due to extremely low volumes...." Wrong again. Intel reports it is making a profit on Itanium, and seeing as it is ramping up whilst all SPARC are ramping down, it looks like Itanium will go on making more money than SPARC. Well, more money than SPARC64 as it now looks doubtful any other server SPARC will exist in a year.
"....Even Sun sells twice as many SPARC CPU's ...." Care to post some facts to back up that claim? Even including the Mickey Mouse Niagara CPU and all of the Fujitsu sales it would not reach that "twice" claim. What you are also forgetting is that hp sell the ProLiant range against Niagara with great success, so what you should be looking at is all server sales. But you won't because it really pains you lot to have to admit hp is the number one server vendor. You also forget that hp makes more margin per server than Sun according to IDC, especially in the margin rich enterprise high end where Sun has virtually ceased to exist. In fact, hp makes more money in a quarter on printers and ink than Sun make losses from their whole server bizz in a year. The fact is, were it otherwise, it would be hp being bought up for chump change rather than Sun.
"....Intel is slowly moving Xeon features into Itainum so that they can kill Itanium all together....." Yeah, I heard that bit of Sun FUD too. I think it was before the UltraSPANKed V got canned. Nice to see you Sunshiners are staying up to date - not! Not much hope for an updated FUDset for the Sunshiners now that the Sun has set. Maybe soon they'll realise Intel (and hp) use Itanium and Xeon as a two-prong strategy to attack the RISC market - Xeon from below and Itanium from above. The success of the strategy can be gauged by a simple truth you'd no doubt like to ignore - the Sun server bizz has gone down the tubes with the cancellation of Rock being the final surrender flag. Even Sun's desperately late and failed attempts to jump on the x64 bandwagon haven't saved them due to the vanity of their SPARC pretensions. Had Sun got serious with Slowaris x86 as a real server offering back in 2000 then the story might be different, they might have held off Linux and Windows, but the SPARC-Slowaris crowd couldn't stand that, and they ran the company into the ground in their stupidity.
So let's try and keep it simple. I'll give you four simple questions, you just think long and hard about the answers and then see how silly you feel given your earlier posts:
1) Which company, Sun or hp, has made a profit in the last six years?
2) Which company has the larger range of products, Sun or hp?
3) Which company went from being a $200bn company in 2000 to having a market cap of less than $4bn this year, Sun or hp?
4) Which company has just been bought by a software company, Sun or hp?
RE: HP and Intel are killing us all
I see the Sunshiners are so desperate to avoid discussing the demise of Rock they've even wheeled out the fake Matt Bryant login. Maybe they hope they can wish away their pink slips simply by keeping their heads in the sand.
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Additional Information
Freeview launches World Cup campaign
Freeview has launched a two-part ad campaign ahead of the World Cup in Brazil to attract both people interested in the tournament, and those seeking to avoid it.
The ad campaign, created by Leo Burnett and called 'Love Or Hate Football', includes two TV ads. The spot targeting football fans has a voiceover by Ricky Tomlinson, while the ad for football haters is voiced by David Walliams.
Both ads promote Freeview's high-definition offering, which will be available to 70 per cent of the UK by the time the Wimbledon tennis championship begins at the end of the month.
Freeview has also launched two interactive living rooms on its website, where people can enter competitions and look through Freeview's guide to the 2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil. There is also an online film promoting the benefits of HD.
Leo Burnett's Laura Clark and Elliott Starr created the ad campaign. Noah Harris directed the spot through BlinkInk, while MPC did the post production and Angell Sound was responsible for the audio.
Owen Jenkinson, the head of marketing at Freeview, said: "We know football fans are excited about the World Cup, but we also know that many of our viewers have no interest in the game at all.
"So this campaign is all about reminding all our viewers just how much choice there is to watch on Freeview. Whatever your passion, you can experience it in high definition on up to ten HD channels."
This article was first published on campaignlive.co.uk
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text: New Stella Sidecar July 11, 2012 Check out the beautiful new Stella with Sidecar we put together for a new Stella owner. If you want to check out some photos on the parts and progress of building a sidecar check out our little Facebook photo album. Stella Sidecar Facebook Page Tags: chinese scooter, Genuine Blur, Genuine Stella, Scooter Gear, Scooter Works, Scooter Works Chicago, Scooters Chicago, Scooterworks, Scooterworks Chicago, Sidecar, Stella Sidecar / Categories: News Related posts BUDDY RIOT NOW IN STOCK October 3, 2014 For Sale: Genuine Stella with Sidecar attached September 5, 2014 For Sale: Beautiful 2005 Genuine Stella 150 September 5, 2014 Popular posts For Sale: 2014 Buddy 170i $2500 September 20, 2014 Stella Launch Party-DELAYED NOW MARCH 14 February 12, 2014 Stella Automatic First look-reserve yours now! November 13, 2013


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Show your password in a readable format in the password fields of the web pages.
Tag Archives | password
Password Maker X
Want to control all of your passwords with a single one? Firefox does have the master password option but now there is also Password Marker X. This cool extension will give you one password to rule them all.
Piigeon checks whether Web sites protect your passwords and other personal information as you browse the Web. Piigeon indicates this information to you as an icon so that you can decide whether you would like to use a site on your current network.
Master Password+
The add-on Master Password+ will give you new enhancements to build up the master password feature inside of Firefox. It locks the master security device on demand or after a specific time. You can also have it prompt it to activate when Firefox is started up.
Public Fox
Public Fox is a nice add-on for Firefox that lets you lock down the browser.
Reset Your Master Password
The master password feature in Firefox is great for protecting all your locally stored passwords, but what do you do when you forget the one password that controls them all? Firefox can save usernames and passwords that you use to access online services, such as banking and email websites. If you share a computer with anyone, it is recommended that you use a master password.
If you have set one up and forgotten it – here is how you can reset it.
Show My Password in Firefox
Need to see your password to see if the one Firefox saved is correct? I run into that problem a lot – especially since I use a lot of passwords in my day to day life. One great extension for Firefox that will let you see your passwords as you enter them on a page is Show My Password.
Edit Saved Firefox Passwords
Need to add or edit entries in the Firefox password manager? The Saved Password Editor extension for Firefox gives you this ability. The extension allows you to enter data into the password manager database instead of replying on Firefox to do it. It also allows you to make changes to existing entries too. If you want full control over the passwords your browser saves, this is a great add-on to grab.
Visualizing Your Reused Passwords
Time and time again, people have suggested that you use multiple passwords for multiple websites. Using the same password over and over again might eventually lead you to trouble – should one of the many accounts you have across the Web ever be compromised. The Password Reuse Visualizer is, if nothing else, a great reminder of this.
Website Password Troubleshooting in Firefox
Firefox should remember passwords by default. If you have turned off or disabled this feature though, it might not. Every so often, I need to use the Firefox password manager to remember a password, and it seems that for the life of me I can not get it to do it. What might be the problem? Check your exceptions!


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A book blog with Maggie Galehouse
Posts filtered on Category
Weird Christmas tales, trivia and traditions
Joey Green's compulsively readable new paperback, "Weird & Wonderful Christmas," is stuffed with odd bits of information about the holiday. Here's a taste: 1. Every year, workers at the Rumpke Landfill near Cincinnati string 30,000 Christmas lights on top of the mound of garbage that covers 234 acres. 2. In 1991, VP Dan Quayle and his […] [Read More]
Weirdest. Books. Ever.
If you don't already know about it, allow me to introduce you to the Weird Book Room at AbeBooks.com. This virtual book room is exactly what its name suggests: a collection of the oddest titles you can imagine, covering everything from epitaphs to poultry to idiots to pyromania. All the books listed are for sale on the […] [Read More]
Care to share your Thanksgiving fiasco?
Ever dropped a cooked Thanksgiving turkey on the floor? Or stopped up the sink with grease and gristle just before the big cleanup? Or begged Aunt Bertha not to make the stuffing because hers is just not very good? If you've had a Thanksgiving fiasco that you're willing to share, the Houston Chronicle is all […] [Read More]
7 dwarves you might not know. Slowpoke? Ticklish? Quee?
In the Brothers Grimm version of "Snow White," based on a Bavarian folktale, you'll find all the familiar characters, including the seven dwarves. But the dwarves don't have individual names in the Grimm story. They're still sweet and supportive. They're still grateful for the cooking and cleaning Snow White does around the cottage. But they're more or less interchangeable dwarves. […] [Read More]
Quiz: Match the author with the ailment
OK, literature fans. This shouldn't be too hard. This quiz comes courtesy of a new book by John J. Ross, M.D., Shakespeare's Tremor and Orwell's Cough: The Medical Lives of Famous Writers. See if you can match the author to the ailment. In some cases, the author was diagnosed with the illness. In other cases, Ross […] [Read More]
Video: Our story in 2 minutes
This video has been floating around since May, but I don't care. I'm posting it because Jim Sherman, FOB (Friend of Bookish) forwarded it to me and I can't stop watching it. From the Big Bang to global warming… [Read More]
Killer quilts and bloody rotary cutters
No, Earlene Fowler wouldn't dream of using a quilt as a murder weapon. "I'd never do that!" Fowler exclaims, aghast at the idea. But wrap a quilt around a dead body? That, she's done. And Terri Thayer? She killed somebody with a rotary cutter, which slices fabric the way a pizza cutter slices pizza. Thayer […] [Read More]
Ideal bookshelves of Rosanne Cash, William Wegman and David Kelley
A wonderful book arrived in the book room today, a small hardcover with just the right amount of whimsy for bibliophiles. Editor Thessaly La Force and artist Jane Mount asked more than 100 cultural figures — writers, musicians, foodies and the like — to choose a sampling of books that made them who they are, […] [Read More]
Your favorite Gershwin lyrics & Sinatra smokes 3 cigarettes
I've been thinking about Ira Gershwin for the past few days, after a nice phone interview with Michael Feinstein last week. Feinstein opens the Jewish Book and Arts Fair on Oct. 28 with his new book about George and Ira Gershwin: "The Gershwins and Me: A Personal History in Twelve Songs." Feinstein is a fan […] [Read More]
Seven Scrabble words for lazy people
A new book — David Bukszpan's "Is That a Word?" – offers scads of words for Scrabble fanatics (like me). Below is a list of short words that circle around idleness. Some you'll know; some you won't: jauk: to dawdle laze: to lounge idly loll: to lounge idly moon: to spend time idly dreaming sweer: […] [Read More]
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You can become an Advocate for children in poverty — impacting your sphere of influence to change the world one child at a time.
Learn how to become an Advocate >
Christian artists and speakers share their passion for Compassion's ministry at concerts and events throughout the U.S. You can help children get sponsored by volunteering at an event in your area.
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If you live in the Colorado Springs area, please consider contacting us about an opportunity to volunteer in Compassion's Global Ministry Center in Colorado Springs. To learn more, send us an E-mail by clicking on the link below.
E-mail us about volunteering at the GMC >
Purifying Fire: Burning Away Our Impurities
In my role as a child advocate, I have sometimes encountered people who say they will get involved [...]
Discovering Child Advocacy
Several years ago when I started sponsoring a child through Compassion, I thought I was doing a good thing. I made [...]
Why I Joined the Advocate Network
Pam Neunsinger was terrified of joining Compassion's Advocate Network. "I didn't want to join at all!" says Pam, a [...]
Parents in Poverty: In the Trenches of Child-rearing
Dave Walton is a Compassion Advocate of two years and a sponsor for nearly 30. He reflects here on his [...]
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Looking for information about 2013 Nissan Versa Oil Change? Please read our article related to the topic on this site. Here you can read or download the article directly from the official website. We offer car repair manuals for all vehicles: convertibles, coupes, hatchbacks, liftbacks, minivans, retro style automobiles, roadsters, sedans, station wagons, town cars, vans, sport cars, SUV, MPV, jeep, pickup, rugged trucks, compact car, compact SUV, 2 door, 3 door, 4 door, 5 door, 6 door car.
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Dartmouth College Real Estate Office
Dartmouth College Real Estate Office offers several options for graduate students.
Search for graduate student rental housing available for the Fall 2014 term:
Search for all available graduate student rental housing:
Two female bedrooms remain at North Park Street Graduate Housing. Please call 603-646-2170 for details.
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Im looking to get some new leather for my G22 and really like the looks and prices of kirkpatricks products. But I can seem to find anything other than stock photos of the TSS holster im looking for. So does any of you guys have actual photos of this holster in use?? I want to get an idea of the quality and appearence.
- JOhn


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I bought an iPad 4 this week. As someone who was coming from the iPad 2, I'm in awe of the screen quality. The resolution boost was immense in making the new retina display easy on the eyes, to say the very least. I was, however, trying to find some wallpaper for the Home and Lock screen, but I can't seem to find any sites that have good selections of wallpaper in the iPad 3/4 resolution and what I can find, isn't a whole frame, as it's only part of the frame, with clack bars on the bottom and top. If someone could point me in the right direction, to find a good selection of wallpapers for the retina display, that would be much appreciated.
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#2 Posted by LiquidPrince (16106 posts) -
Just go to Google and limit your searches to like 4MP or bigger. That's how I get what I want.
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#3 Posted by Mendelson9 (405 posts) -
Do you like Mario? I use this for my iPod touch but here is an iPad Retina version. http://scottbalmer.co.uk/goodies/mario/iphone_ipad/mario_items_ipad_retina.jpg
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Jack Martin, the emergency manager for Detroitpublic schools, has canceled his proposal to cut teachers' salaries by 10% and to increase class sizes to as many as 43. This is great news for the children and teachers of Detroit!
"In place of the pay cuts, Jack Martin will ask state education officials to extend the district's five-year deficit elimination plan to seven years, consider layoffs for non-school employees and look to revenue increases from future property sales and possible student enrollment increases.
"Facing a fierce backlash from teachers, parents and even the state school superintendent, Martin announced the reversal of the planned cuts as part of the district's plan to eliminate its $127 million deficit.
"The district's deficit elimination plan, submitted to the Michigan Department of Education and approved last week, was intended to make up for the loss of a projected $18.5 million in revenue from a countywide school tax that voters rejected Aug. 5.
"Detroit Public Schools' sole focus is and must remain providing the highest quality education possible to the children of Detroit," Martin said during a news conference."
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140826/SCHOOLS/308260087#ixzz3BWxXkqaf


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Swing by Stepping Stones Museum for Children for a freeday of play during Nickelodeon's Worldwide Day of Play on Saturday, September 21.
To highlight the importance of a healthy, active lifestyle, Stepping Stones is hosting an action-packed day with free museum admission and activities throughout Mathews Park. The event will feature outdoor field games, interactive sports and fitness demonstrations, awesome educational activities and amazing live performances – all for free and guaranteed to keep your family moving. Get up, get out and go play!
Stepping Stones Museum for Children
(203) 899-0606
Robert Townes
We make every effort to ensure the accuracy of this information. However, you should always call ahead to confirm dates, times, location, and other information.


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During his first stint as New York City police commissioner, Bill Bratton gained a reputation as an early tech adopter. He's the guy who introduced CompStat -- the statistical model that determines where crime will occur -- to the department. CompStat has since spread to police departments around t ... More >>
It's official. Mayor-elect Bill de Blasio confirmed widespread rumors with an announcement Thursday morning: he will reappoint one-time top cop Bill Bratton as NYPD police commissioner. In a statement distributed just before the announcement at the Red Hook Community Justice Center, de Blasio call ... More >>
Investigators say the city's independent schools watchdog has often failed to bark
Ex-judge Leslie Crocker Snyder wants to talk about everything except her law firm
After Arrests, a Union Agrees to Its Own Investigation
Transit Union Leaders Find an Old Real Estate Deal Smells


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Law & Order: Rogue States Unit
What a peek inside America's prisons can tell us about U.S.-Iran relations.
Losing the Ratings War
Why "Enlisted" is the best show on television no one is watching.
Can Radek Sikorski Save Europe?
Meet the Oxford-educated Polish foreign minister fighting to get a wishy-washy continent to stand up to Russia.
Through the Fiscal Looking Glass
The latest plans for the Pentagon's budget present an alternate reality.
FP's Situation Report: The sanctions are coming, the sanctions are coming
Military muscle flexing in Asia; Hagel's approval rating low; Crash in Afg probably an accident; Assad to seek a third term; In China, the Big Ban Theory; and a bit more.
North Korea's Next Test
Satellite images show that Pyongyang is up to no good at its Punggye-ri nuclear site. The question isn't if a nuclear test will happen -- but when.
An Intercontinental Ballistic Missile by any Other Name
Has Russia broken its pledge not to test medium-range nukes? The answer isn't as clear as you might think.
COIN's Funeral
How the United States and NATO came to pursue the counterinsurgency strategy in Afghanistan -- and why it might never be used again.
FP's Situation Report: AF to look at bomber units
Will Obama tweak missile defense posture?; McCain, Flake furious about the VA; Blue Angels commander in hot water; Hagel brings the muscle; Marine regrets crucifying himself; and a bit more.
Exclusive: Air Force to Scrutinize Nuke Bomber Units Following Missile Scandal
The push underscores a fundamental question: Can the nuke force police its own?
FP's Situation Report: U.S. to resume aid to Egypt
Clapper's gag order; U.S. Troops to exercise in Eastern Europe; Nagl deals with a drug ring; Thumb-wrestling for Hagel, who is also wheels up today; McChrystal talks "career curveballs"; and a bit more.
FP's Situation Report: Obama's drone war in Yemen
Biden to pledge support for Ukraine; Assad still using chems?; Possibly less than 10k in Afg; Dem gubernatorial candidate steps in it; and a bit more.
The Musharraf Boomerang
Could the new Pakistani government's pursuit of the country's former dictator be its own undoing?
FP's Situation Report: Ukraine: Moscow-run intel units fomenting unrest
Unkempt? New Army reg on hairstyles raise ire; Did Snowden mess up?; Abdullah Abdullah's lead widens; Donilon on the Asia Pivot: all good; and a bit more.
Welcome to the People's Republic of Donetsk
Inside the occupied government building in eastern Ukraine where pro-Russian protesters are trying to create a new country.
No Hawks Here
When it comes to conflict in world politics, realists are the peaceniks of post-Cold War America.
FP's Situation Report: Do Russia-Ukraine peace talks stand a chance in Geneva?
Hagel meeting with Poland's defense chief; An explosion of foreign fighters in Syria; and a bit more.
These Aren't the Drones You're Looking For
Why the Navy's betting on the wrong robot airplane for future wars.
'We'll Probably Get Through This Year'
The U.N. is begging for money to help Syrians who've fled their homes, as tensions over refugees in Jordan and Lebanon heat up. But there's no solution in sight.
FP's Situation Report: Russian troops, or Ukrainian defectors?
A new Medal of Honor for Army veteran; New York Times piece explores ties between military and KKK; and a bit more.
FP's Situation Report: Remembering the Boston Marathon bombing one year later
CIA chief quietly visits Ukraine; a top Marine touches the military benefits third rail; and a bit more.
FP's Situation Report: The hunt for missing Flight 370 goes underwater
KKK links in Kansas shootings; U.S. diplomatic 'brain drain' in Afghanistan; Career anxiety at West Point; and a bit more.
The World in Photos This Week
Afghanistan goes to the polls; pro-Russian demonstrators clash with police in Ukraine; and Indian elections begin.
Russia Is an Arsonist, Pretending to Be a Fire Safety Inspector
The Moscow playbook: predict chaos in Ukraine, then unleash it.
FP's Situation Report: Dems getting restless on Syria
Obama at Fort Hood; Hagel comes home; A dangerous legacy in Afg; The effort to build the Iron Man suit; Party like a four-star; and a bit more.
FP's Situation Report: How Washington turned its back on Darfur
Hagel in Beijing and a U.S.-China divide exposed; Fears of extremism and ethnic violence in Africa; Can you laugh at the military?; and a bit more.
A Mission That Was Set Up to Fail
How Washington turned its back on a foreign-policy triumph and let Darfur descend back into chaos. Part 3 in Foreign Policy's exclusive investigation of the U.N.'s peacekeeping debacle in Sudan.
China Might Actually Seize Japan's Southern Islands
It's not as crazy as you think-- and here's how the United States and Japan can prevent it from happening.
'Now We Will Kill You'
Part 2 in Foreign Policy's exclusive investigation of the U.N.'s peacekeeping debacle in Darfur.


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To enter FameLab you must be at least 21 years old and working in science. This includes private and public sector employees, technicians and anyone working in the fields of science, technology, engineering or maths. The competition aims to provide new opportunities for scientists to develop their skills as communicators.
not sure if IT counts...
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Article from
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Natural vs man-made: the heated debate
Lab-created diamond debate heats up
By Nick Lord
The technology for lab-created diamonds has officially arrived – heralded by companies like Gemesis Diamond Company – and although presenting new opportunities for the jewellery industry, it also raises a number of ethical and control issues.
spoke with Stephen Lux in late-October 2012, Lux sounded excited. The CEO of Gemesis Diamond Company was discussing the company's visit to the International Jewellery Fair Sydney (IJFS) to promote the addition of lab-created colourless diamonds and a luxury jewellery line to the group's new direct-to-public website.
It seemed a positive end to what had been a mixed year for the Florida-based group that claimed to be "the world's principal producer of gem-quality lab-created diamonds and jewellery".
In the October interview, Lux listed the group's 2012 highlights as "perfecting our fancy-yellow colour, which has previously been an orange-ish colouration but is now very clearly a vivid, fancy yellow", and bringing colourless diamonds to market using Chemical Vapour Deposition (CVD) technology. Gemesis was the first company to do so, and Lux called the news "the most significant development for us this year [2012]".
He also talked about the group's plans to increase production of type-IIa colourless diamonds – gems with no measurable nitrogen impurities – at sizes of between 0.40 carats and 1.35 carats, colour grades between G and M, and clarity grades between VVS1 and SI2. He pointed out that the new sizes represented a huge leap forward from the maximum size of 0.75 carats that the group could produce when it first announced its CVD breakthrough in November 2010.
CVD diamonds are increasing in size
"CVD gives us the ability to make a purer, higher-quality diamond," Lux said. "When we first announced colourless diamonds, 75 points was large for us. Now we're up to 1.3 carats so the technology is evolving quickly and we should be incrementing upwards for some time."
A change in direction
The mood of the October 2012 interview was overwhelmingly positive and Lux detailed Gemesis' plans for the future with great enthusiasm; however, two months later, Stephen Lux was gone, stepping down as CEO.
"While I can't get into too many specifics as to the reasons for my decision to leave, it is fair to conclude that the joy of building something special with the growing sales of the lab-created diamonds has been overshadowed by the other 'distractions,'" Lux told
. "The internal situation had made it difficult to focus on the long-term objectives of the company."
The distractions included the inference made by De Beers' Diamond Trading Company (DTC) that Gemesis may have been behind the circulation of a sample of undisclosed synthetic diamonds that was discovered by an IGI laboratory in Antwerp in May 2012. This discovery came at a time when Gemesis was celebrating outstanding test results for its colourless diamonds at the Gemological Institute of America (GIA).
It was March 2012 when Gemesis began marketing in earnest its lab-created colourless diamonds using CVD, a less expensive technology than the high-pressure, high-temperature (HPHT) method the company uses to manufacture fancy-coloured diamonds.
Prior to this, the GIA purchased 16 of these CVD-created, round-brilliant, colourless diamonds for testing in sizes ranging from 0.24 carats to 0.86 carats. The ensuing report, titled 2012: The Year Synthetic Diamonds Made Their Mark ruled that the stones were "comparable to top natural diamonds".
"Most were near colourless and were graded F-G on the GIA 4Cs D-Z scale for diamond colour," the report specifies. "Three were graded I-J and the largest, 0.90 carat, was a rectangle cut graded L. All of the stones were high clarity, VVS or VS. One was graded internally flawless."
Lux said back in October that the result was not unexpected: "We were ecstatic with GIA's findings but not surprised, although we were surprised that they were so candid about the high quality. We were particularly happy with the way the report was phrased because it truly told the consumer that what we're creating is the same as what comes out of the ground."
Testing ethics
The ability of colourless lab-created diamonds to pass as mined diamonds raises all manners of ethical concerns, mainly what would happen if they are ever sold as naturally-formed diamonds and introduced into the market undetected?
Such concerns were tested in May 2012 when the IGI laboratory in Antwerp, Belgium, received a package of around 1,000 stones marked as natural, polished diamonds and fully priced as such. Subsequent testing showed more than 600 of the diamonds to be lab-created and also of a high-quality (VVS-VS clarity with "excellent" and "very good" polish and symmetry).
Furthermore, IGI determined that the presence of impurities such as feathers, pinpoints and small dark crystals were "intentionally introduced" and that the diamonds appeared to be "created to defraud".
Do consumers care which is which?
Leading global diamond expert Chaim Even-Zohar remarked in a report on the Israeli Diamond Industry website titled Synthetics 'Specifically Made To Defraud' that the sample came from a stock selection "many times larger", meaning it was possible that the number of undisclosed synthetics already released into the market "may run into many thousands of stones worth many millions of dollars".
In a letter written to Even-Zohar at the time, Lux stated "with 100 per cent certainty" that the undisclosed CVD diamonds did not come from his company and that other companies exist that are capable of supplying quantities of CVD diamonds equal to the amount discovered in Antwerp. Lux also dismissed claims that Gemesis CVD diamonds were more recognisable than CVD diamonds created in other laboratories.
"CVD diamonds, whether made by Gemesis or others, will be indistinguishable from each other," he wrote, adding, "Just because an unscrupulous supplier may have CVD diamonds that demonstrate the high quality of Gemesis does not mean they are Gemesis."
The issue intensified further with news reported in January 2013 that Steven Lux didn't resign but was terminated from his position. Lux is now suing his former employer for wrongful termination. The legal papers carry the revelation that "100 per cent of Gemesis was acquired by Power Capital Ventures Ltd (PCV) on 31 October 2012".
Previously, it has been reported that Gemesis was owned by Jatin R. Mehta, the principal of India's Winsome Diamonds (formerly Su-Raj Diamonds). Mehta is reported to have invested US$8.4m in return for 50.1 per cent of the group when Gemesis was approaching bankruptcy in 2010, and later acquired the remaining shareholders by October 2012.
Under Mehta, The Gemesis Corporation changed names to Gemesis Diamond Company and shifted its diamond manufacturing operations from Florida to Malaysia in a bid to lower production costs and better protect the company's intellectual property, according to a May 2012 report by Even-Zohar titled The Mystery Of Two Gemesis Companies Under One Hat.
E-commerce sales model
The company also flagged ambitions to move to a direct-to-public e-commerce sales model, something that eventuated in 2012 with the launch of Gemesis.com.
Adding further intrigue, the true origin of the 600 or so lab-created but undisclosed gems that arrived in Antwerp remains inconclusive but Even-Zohar reported that the trail of invoices involved in the transaction led back to the New York office of Mehta's own Su-Raj Diamonds and Jewellery USA (now Winsome Diamonds).
This does not guarantee that the diamonds are in any way associated with Gemesis and any connection between the two companies remains opaque if existent at all.
A further source of much industry confusion came with the emergence of a second Gemesis company based in Singapore that features an entirely different board to that of Gemesis' American operations.
In fact, Even-Zohar reported no connection at all between the two companies except for the involvement of investor Mehta, and who does not occupy a board seat Recruitment advertisements placed by each firm suggest Singapore specialises in CVD technology for the purposes of growing rectangular crystals for industrial use and gems for jewellery use, while Malaysia (Gemesis' US operations) specialises in gems created using HPHT technology.
How will jewellers sell synthetics?
It's all a little confusing as well as inconclusive, and
stresses that none of this is any proof that the company has been acting improperly. What is clearer is that the mere allegation of Gemesis' involvement in the IGI scandal has unequivocally undermined the group's big 2012 developments – colourless gems and a new online website – both of which had the power to dramatically boost Gemesis' reputation and sales.
Could the company have been tarred with the wrong brush by an industry nervous about the emergence of the GIA report? The group's production levels are comparably low, suggesting any such paranoia would be misplaced, and Gemesis' penetration of the global consumer diamond markets remains modest at best, and almost non-existent here in Australia.
But the question remains: just how many diamonds does Gemesis have? Lux was quick to point out that Gemesis production levels as of October 2012 presented no threat to the natural diamond sector: "This is not going to threaten the mined diamond industry; it will be generations before there are such quantities."
During his tenure, Lux remained determined to assure the industry that Gemesis had a non-negotiable policy utmost transparency.
"Full disclosure has been and will continue to be one of our very basic tenants," Lux said in October. "We inscribe all of our diamonds to ensure they are unmistakably Gemesis, and every diamond on our website carries a PDF certificate that can be viewed immediately."
In consumer terms, what the GIA report really says is that lab-created diamonds can now achieve a comparable quality to natural diamonds. It also throws into question nomenclature surrounding lab-created diamonds and, specifically, the industry's insistence upon the term "synthetic", which is correctly applied here if referring to a diamond "not of natural origin" but not necessarily correctly applied here if intended to mean "artificial".
Furthermore, the Gemesis group's consistent achievement of VVS and VS type-IIa diamonds within the 0.40-carat to 1.30-carat range sends a clear message to the industry that the company can now comfortably and confidently provide direct competition in the young bridal market "sweet spot" of 40 points to 1 carat.
For the first time, consumers, retailers and designers present within this range now have a legitimate choice between two types of colourless diamond products – natural and lab-created – at two fairly different price-points.
Throughout the interview, Lux worked hard to play down suggestions that the price of lab-created gems was not significantly cheaper than their mined counterparts, claiming instead that the complex processes of lab-creation kept prices up, and that the ecological and ethical benefits of HPHT diamonds injected value that was accurately reflected in the price.
"These diamonds are never going to be cheap to produce because we're re-creating what was done in nature, and it has to be done the same way for a consumer to appreciate the beauty that comes out," Lux said. "We can't use price as the only offering to the customer and we haven't had to do that anyway because people now recognise multiple benefits when looking at our diamonds – the process is far more energy-efficient that what it takes to move tonnes of earth, and the origin of each diamond is absolutely known."
They even pass the loupe test
Before leaving the company, Lux listed Gemesis' central 2013 goal as boosting consumer education, stating that the aim in the coming year was to inform consumers that lab-created diamonds were indeed real diamonds.
"Gemesis consumers know they come away with a diamond – it's not a question that it is a diamond and that it is conflict-free. They also have the assurance of a diamond certificate, our generous return policy, eco-friendly comfort and an attractive price. Ultimately, it's hard for someone to sit there and say they disagree with all those points."
The future of Gemesis Diamond Company remains unclear, but recent company statements have denied rumours of instability, ignored questions about ownership and assured the industry that it is "business as usual".
While the company may not currently have the production capacity to impact the industry, 95,000 fans on the group's Facebook page exist as solid proof that the word is spreading.
Synthetic diamonds make their mark
GIA dubbed 2012 "the year that synthetic diamonds made their mark" after the lab's own test results further dismantled the industry's long-held (and anecdotal) argument that lab-created diamonds must be inferior in clarity, carat, cut and colour, but there are many more issues to be overcome.
If nothing else, GIA's report heralds a fundamental message: the technology has arrived, irrespective of who is around to control it.
Indeed, amidst the hullabaloo surrounding Gemesis, another company, Washington Diamonds, threw its hat into the ring in September 2012, claiming it would produce 150 one-carat stones per month for a total production run of more than 2,200 diamonds a year, and sell the diamonds directly to the public online for about 25 per cent less than comparable mined diamonds.
And the sale of Boston-based Apollo Diamonds to Scio Diamond Technologies in September 2011 would suggest that more companies will follow.
It seems the barriers to any increase in the popularity and longevity of lab-created diamonds in the open marketplace are no longer technological, but related to the prohibitive cost and difficulty of large-scale production, and a general consumer reluctance to adopt lab-created diamonds as equals.
In the meantime, whatever moves the industry can make to encourage or enforce transparency remain of utmost importance.
Posted April 22, 2013
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Did you know that the library has an Adult Seasonal Craft Session? Just show up on the second Monday of the month at 2:00 pm! All adults are invited to participate. We have made various craft items: handpainted bowls, earrings, flower pendants, decorated magnets, personalized cards, etc. So, if you are a crafter or you are creative person and looking for a crafting group, stop on by. No sign up required.
[1] http://hcpl.net/category/tags/crafts
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text:
Good restaurants in Scarborough.
- k
- kweenshaker Feb 28, 2009 09:43 AM
My family lives near Scarborough, so we often don't feel like going downtown when we go out for dinner. We're tired of the beach and we've exhausted the Danforth....Scarborough is HUGE, so there must be some good restaurants somewhere? We're not too picky on cuisine as long as it's good, has vegetarian options (one of us is veggie) and has a liquor license. TIA!
The standout in Scarborough is Zen Japanese. Exquisite quality and of course they're licensed. In Scarborough you may as well not open your doors in the first place if you can't hand over a beer.
My "good food" places in Scarborough unfortunately aren't restaurants. They're take out joints, small eateries, and many places I'm not sure qualify as "restaurants". However, when I want dim sum in the area, I go to Dragon Dynasty in the mall on Brimley & Huntingwood (but 15 mins north will open up better (and more expensive) options).
Fratelli Village Pizzeria is also a good family resto.
I also like Gumi for Korean food.
They all are LLBO and have veggie options. As you said, Scarborough is huge. How about a intersection to center the recommendations?
re: Wandering Foodie
Thanks for the replies so far. I'd prefer southwest scarborough, but would travel further north for anything out of the ordinary.
re: Wandering Foodie
I agree, Scarborough isn't the sort of place for sit-down dining, but, for take-out there are some good joints.
Burgers: I hear lots about Johnny Burgers and Real McCoy which are both good, but for my money, there are few better than a complete hole in the wall at our local strip plaza called Maple Garden restaurant. The chocolate shakes are made with real ice cream and are smooth - the best chocolate shakes around. The hours of the restaurant are weird but Paul makes a good burger, fries and onion rings, and, did I mention the shakes? Meadowvale and Dean Park Road.
Chinese: We're still looking on this one. Green Tea Restaurant on Island Road is our "go-to."
Greek: Friendly Greek (it's two person platter feeds our family of five - admittedly small kids). It's much better than Mr. Greek Junior - the tzaiki is fresh and the meat flavourful. Morningside/Lawrence.
Thai: Not quite Scarborough (but close) is Linda's in the newly renovated Don Mills Centre. There you can order the best Thai dish ever - Golden Curry Chicken. This is a restaurant that used to be located above the enigmatically named and legendary Salad King near Ryerson U. We also have gone to the Thai Orchid in Pickering, which is good, but doesn't really compare to some of the downtown fare.
Middle Eastern - Ok, there is one of these in the Scarborough Town Centre food court, but, the best to be had is the Medina's in the Pickering Town Center. Their combo plate is a great Chicken Shwarma and Beef Tawouk (I think that's what it is). Anyway, easily one of my favourite take out meals.
This is a great thread! I've got it bookmarked.
re: scarborough
I would never eat at Medina's. They're somewhere in the middle of Mediterranean and middle eastern and food court quality through and through. There are plenty of good Lebanese joints for some real sharwarma, tawook and falafel experience near Warden/Lawrence. My fav is Farhat (NW corner of Warden/Lawrence strip) and you'll find one of the best Lebanese experience in T.O. If you're closer to Pickering, there is one place (sorry, I forget the name) at SouthEast corner with No frills, Mandarine buffet, Tim Hortons' complex. They're not even close to being as good as Warden and Lawrence but it will have to do in Durham region.
I live just off Island Rd but if you want real Chinese, stay away from Green Tea Restaurant. Instead, trek over to Sheppard and Brimley where you will find many better options like the Perfect Chinese Restaurant (open 24hrs) or more tame version, Asian Legend.
There is a decent Thai place on Port Union rd and Lawson that just opened up a little over a year ago.
2020 Lawrence Ave E, Toronto, ON M1R2Z1, CA
I recently tried Hopper Hut in the plaza at the north-west corner of Kennedy and Ellesmere; it was our first experience with Sri Lankan food, and it was excellent. Two words: crab curry. So much flavour... gorgeously intense. I thought about it for days. Can't remember if they have a liquor licence though.
re: Olivia
Hmm I'll definitely give that a try....I don't think I've ever had Sri Lankan food and I love trying new cuisines!
re: kweenshaker
Just asked a friend, and it's unlicenced. It's too bad as a beer (or three) would be amazing with the foods we had. Still worth a visit though.
re: Olivia
That's a shame. Do you know if they're open for lunch?
re: kweenshaker
I only ever go there for lunch, so that one's covered. It's really good stuff, though last few times I have been it wasn't as incendiary as I remembered.... maybe I just ordered the wrong things!
re: Olivia
Was the crab curry spicy? I can take mild to somewhat moderate spicy, but that's about it.
re: red dragon
Sorry, it's been a few months, so I can't remember if the crab itself was particularly spicy. When I go back I'll make a note of it and post again.
Despite what the regulars say, (they are so jaded!) I like the husband/wife team at Aoyama 2766 Victoria Park, for realistic Japanese food, especially sushi and sashimi.
For me, the seafood has has been excellent, and the service by Caroline superb,
It is best to go at non-rush times.
re: jayt90
i really liked Aoyama as well!
My other suggestions are:
- Fratelli's (def check out this place!)
- Federicks and Lin Garden for hakka chinese food
- Cafe Michi
- Roti Hut (they renovated the place and it now has a pretty big dining area)
- Real McCoy (great burgers and donut onion rings)
- Asian Legend
- Tandoori Pearl (i've only been there for lunch but its really good)
there are tons of places to go in scarborough...it really depends on what you are looking for.
re: helen0505
Thanks for the suggestions! We really just like food (lol) so fire away any more suggestions you may have! We just haven't explored Scarborough much, mainly because of the (unfair) bad rap.
re: helen0505
I used to go to Aoyama all the time when they first opened, but haven't been for a long time. Their quality went down when they were getting a lot more people. Not sure if they are better now, will go back and check them up sometime.
Some more suggestions:
- Pho Vietname(Kennedy and Ellesmere) is good for Pho and Vietnamese rice dishes.
- Kenny's Noodles at Midland and Shepperd is good for certain dishes(some can be crappy), they have the best Ox Lungs with Vermicelli in the city.
re: Brain of J
Ugh, you serious? not to judge your taste but Lin Garden is straight garbage, there's no flavour, just heat
re: Bobby Wham
I disagree with Bobby Wham. I like Lin Garden. It's like Hakka comfort food. Their chili chicken is so much better than the place at the corner of Kennedy and Lawrence (Spicy Dragon?) or the other one i tried on Lawrence E. (K......?).
re: Bobby Wham
where is dumpling king?
also, i disagree about lin garden...i think the flavour is great! but i still prefer federicks.
I like eastern twist:
But it's a takeout joint.
re: eco987
is this place still open? i tried to go a several months ago, and there was a sign on the door saying that this location was now closed, and to go to the st. clair location
re: tygrr_lily
Hmmm. I don't know. I haven't been for over a year now. Maybe call the number on the website? Too bad...
Armenian Kitchen on Vic Park north of Eglinton (perhaps techinically in North York), Pho Saigon at Warden and Eg, and Krispy Roll at Warden and Eg -- these places are all casual, reasonably priced and have tasty food (including some veg options).
I'd recommend Ruby's (McCowan and Finch) for dinner (they have a great vegetarian selection - try the Buddha's Delight with soft tofu, and vegetable soup with fresh bean curd sheets). A veg place that I've enjoyed is Lotus (Midland, south of Steeles) -- not the biggest fan of their (or anybody's) faux-meet, but their other dishes are delicious.
1571 Sandhurst Cir, Toronto, ON M1V1V2, CA
re: Yum2MyTum
They used to be good, but had problems with quality and pests. Now they're closed for good.
Some of the best Cantonese food is available at Maple Yip (Brimley/Sheppard). The service is hectic and you might have some difficulty with the menu (there is some English but not everything is translated) but the food is excellent. Divine Wok (Birchmount/Finch) is also pretty good, though the neighbourhood is a bit sketchy. Also, Hunter's (Birchmount/Huntingwood) has one hell of a good Greek salad and the pizza is pretty good too. I also frequent Ming's Noodles (Kennedy/McNichol) [try the French Toast] and Pho 88 (Warden/Bamburgh Circle) for a cheap, yummy meal.
Some good recommendations here, I do mostly takeout and there are some very solid options in Scarborough. My faves are:
Middle eastern- Shawarma Empire, Ibrahim BBQ and Pizza - both on Lawrence just west of Warden.
Fish and Chips- Malt 'N Salt on Lawson Dr and Highland Fish & Chips at Ellesmere and Conlins.
Indian- Cheetal Indian Restaurant at Military Trail and Old Kingston Rd.
Thai- Red House Thai (it's actually in Pickering at Kingston Rd and Whites Rd).
Pizza- Fratelli Village Pizzeria On Old Kingston Rd in Highland Creek (it's a real hidden gem!) Calabria Bakery (Thursday and Fridays only) on Midland Rd.
Homeburgers and onion rings- Shamrock Burgers on Old Kingston Rd at the Highland Creek overpass. Inexperienced cooks can overcook the burger, keep an eye on them! The old guy with the lazy eye is the best.
Roti- Roti Hut on Pitfield Rd.
Hakka- Lucky Chinese at Scarborough Golf Club and Lawrence. The Crispy Beef and the Kan Shu green beans at Lin Garden at Pharmacy and Sheppard are great though.
Avoid Johnny's, it's pre-fab crap with a low price. In this case you definitely get what you pay for.
re: Dr Butcher
Middle Eastern - lots to choose from around the Lawrence, Vic Park - Warden area.
Fish and Chips - I agree Malt 'N Salt hands down
Indian - Indian Spice Kitchen on Markham Rd., just south of Painted Post on the West side is strictly vegetarian
Vietnamese - Pho Dau Bo (Lawrence and Markham- north east side)
Italian - Fratelli's definitely. Great atmosphere, great service, excellent food.
Shamrock's - what Dr. Butcher says about the old guy is true, but added to that make sure you order the HOME BURGER or was it called the Shamrock? Anyway just make sure it isn't the pre-fab "bear claw" type of burger.
Black Dog Pub- good atmosphere, good service, good variety of dishes (carnivores and vegetarians) and the quality is very good. Located on Island Rd. just east of the No Frills (south of the 401 off of Port Union Rd.)
re: scarberian
Definitely agree about Black Dog. Quality is much better than most pubs.
here are a couple of places we frequent... decent restaurants, easy on the wallet, and tasty... (not all are in Scarborough proper... I am assuming you are looking for good food to eat... in the nabe...)
Zen Sushi - Eglinton & Midland - my favourite sushi place (also have set meals & non-sushi meals which are equally fabulous) - need a reservation on Fridays & Saturdays for sure... it's always busy.
Krispy Roll - Thailand / Viet place - on the east side of Warden just half a block south of Eglinton. Cheap & cheerful..
Arkadia - Greek food (I saw a recommendation for Mr. Greek's I thought) - Eglinton & Birchmount
Bistro Camino - not in Scarborough but close - Main & Danforth - delicious & really chowhound worthy (CH'ers love it)
Congee Queen - on the westside past the Shops on Don Mills
Bamiyan Kabob - for Afghani- no licquor licence - kind of a take out feel but different type of cuisine... (located on Overlea)
re: Apple
Better than Krispy Roll is 7 Star Thai Cuisine just about a block south of there at 781 Warden Ave. Very reasonably priced. You have to coach them to make your dishes "Thai spicy", but aside from that they deliver value for the money.
7 Star Thai Cuisine
781 Warden Ave, Toronto, ON M1L4C2, CA
re: capiscum
Not pandering to the neighbourhood would be death to any place anywhere. You'll get the experience you request at 7Star. In other words, if you ask them to make it as they would serve to themselves then, yes, you can get a pretty tasty experience there. If you're dining with your grandma and make no special requests you won't have to ask for extra water for the table. Here's their dinner menu.
re: Otonabee
7 Star is no more. The whole Embers complex is up for sale. It's too bad really.
Here are two really good Indian restaurants in Scarborough that I learned about through Chowhound. Have now been to both and highly recommend them.
Anjappar Chettinad (around the corner from Zen Japanese, at Markham & Eglinton)
Karaikudi is on Kennedy, east side, between Lawrence and Ellesmere.
re: Full tummy
Karaikudi is by far my favourite Indian restaurant in the GTA so far.
I found some of the food to be really spicy, but I like it hot so it suited my tastes.
In Scarb, it's all about the takeout - you can find amazingly amazing delicious cheeeap food, but always, always under fluorescent lights.
In terms of Hakka, I vote for Lin Gardens over Federick's, but my favourite is Tangerine, at Markham Rd. and 14th, in Markham.
I love the Pakistani takeout at Shahi Karahi (Markham and Lawrence). The chicken tikka rolls are amazing, as is the saag paneer.
Lin Garden
1806 Pharmacy Ave, Toronto, ON M1T1H6, CA
Shahi Karahi
3630 Lawrence Ave E, Toronto, ON M1G1P6, CA
I second Indian Spice Kitchen (near Markham and Lawrence). I've heard they've added a meat section to their traditionally vegetarian buffet. Great deal for buffet. Helpful servers to guide you through the dishes.
For more Indian (dinner, take out, desserts, samosas, etc) try the Embassy (aka Samosa King) at Middlefield and Finch. Their samosas are my favourite for both taste and price!
I've also heard good things about Bamiyan (Afghani) in Thorncliffe Park.
It's a little family run hole-in-the-wall, but my family really likes Tabaq, a Pakistani restaurant on Danforth Road just NE of Danforth Avenue.
Tabaq Restaurant
50 Danforth Rd, Toronto, ON M1L3W4, CA
the crab curry at hopper hut is okay but a better place for some much better crab curry is a place around eglinton and brimley beside the huge dollar store.
Hi Kweenshaker,
Do try Mandalay Restaurant (Markham/Lawrence area):
It may well be the only casual, yet elegant dining option in Scarborough. Friendly, unobtrusive service, a warm atmosphere and medium-priced selections of Southeast Asian fusion dishes should please your palate - bon appetit!
re: susan_e_webb
As an FYI - Mandalay has a group deal on today on http://www.swarmjam.com/
re: pakmode
Thanks, pakmode! I wasn't able to go for the group deal myself, but perhaps others were...
Cheers and bon appetit!
I just reviewed a new Italian restaurant called Belfiero. Check out my review:
Excellent freshly made Italian food from the bread (baked in house) to the pasta to the meat dishes. It's now our Italian go to place.