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Lessons of the Obama Debacle
The problem with us progressives at this time of crisis is not that we lack an alternative paradigm to pit against the discredited neoliberal paradigm. No, the elements of the alternative based on the values of democracy, justice, equality, and environmental sustainability are there and have been there for sometime, the product of collective intellectual and activist work over the last few decades.
The key problem is the failure of progressives to translate their vision and values into a program that is convincing and connects with the people trapped in the terrible existential conditions created by the global financial crisis. This fluid process is preeminently political. It requires translating a strategic perspective into a tactical program that takes advantage of the opportunities, ambiguities, and contradictions of the present moment to construct a critical mass for progressive change from diverse class and social forces.
We must look at the political experience of the global progressive movement in order to understand why our side has been derailed and how we can fight back to political relevance. The experience of the Obama presidency is rich in this regard. In the U.S. political context, Obama is a social democrat, and the broad left supported his candidacy. Although he was no anti-capitalist, still we expected that he would initiate a program of recovery and reform similar in ambition to Roosevelt's New Deal. The electoral base that brought him to power, which cut across class, color, gender, and generational lines -- was full of potential. Obama's ability to bring this base together on a message of change achieved what was then thought impossible—the election of an Afro-American as president of the United States—and showed how smart political leadership can shape social and political structures.
Two years after his spectacular electoral victory, President Obama and the Democrats face a rout in the U.S. polls in early November. Indeed, Obama and his party are like a rabbit on the railroad track that is hypnotized by the light of an oncoming train. Whereas Obama seemed to do all the right things in his quest for the presidency, he seemed to make all the wrong moves as chief executive.
His prioritizing of health care reform, a massively complex task, has been identified as a key blunder. This decision certainly contributed to the debacle. But other important factors related mainly to his handling of the economic crisis, a primary concern of the electorate, were perhaps more critical.
Six Reasons behind the Debacle
Obama's first mistake was to take responsibility for the economic crisis. In his quixotic quest for a bipartisan solution, he made George W. Bush's problem his own. Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan never made this mistake. They took no responsibility for the economic problems of the 1970s, heaping the blame entirely on their liberal predecessors and eschewing any bipartisan alliance with those they considered their ideological enemies. Roosevelt, too, slammed – and slammed hard –his ideological foes, those he termed "economic royalists."
Insofar as Obama and his lieutenants identified villains, this was Wall Street. Yet saying the financial elite brought on the crisis, while bailing out key Wall Street financial institutions such as Citigroup and AIG on the grounds that they were "too big to fail," involved Obama in a terrible contradiction. The least that he could have done was to remove the existing boards and top managers of these organizations as a condition for government funds. Instead, unlike the case of General Motors, the top dogs stayed on board and continued to collect sky-high bonuses to boot.
The strong sense of disconnect between word and deed was exacerbated rather than alleviated by the Democrats' financial reform. The measure did not have the minimum conditions for a reform with real teeth: the banning of derivatives, a Glass-Steagall provision preventing commercial banks from doubling as investment banks; the imposition of a financial transactions tax or Tobin tax; and a strong lid on executive pay, bonuses, and stock options.
Third, Obama had a tremendous opportunity to educate and mobilize people against the neoliberal or market fundamentalist approach that deregulated the financial sector and caused the crisis. Although Obama did allude to unregulated financial markets as the key problem during the campaign, he refrained from demonizing neoliberalism after he took office, thus presenting an ideological vacuum that the resurgent neoliberals did not hesitate to fill. No doubt he failed to launch a full-scale ideological offensive because his key lieutenants for economic policy, National Economic Council head Larry Summers and Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, had not broken with neoliberal thinking.
Fourth, the stimulus package of $787 billion was simply too small to bring down or hold the line on unemployment. Here, Obama cannot say he lacked good advice. Paul Krugman, the Nobel laureate, and a whole host of Keynesian economists were telling him this from the very start. For comparison, the Chinese stimulus package of $580 billion was much bigger relative to the size of the economy than the Obama package. For the White House now to say that the employment situation would now be worse had it not been for the stimulus is, to say the least, politically naïve. People operate not with wishful counterfactual scenarios but with the facts on the ground, and the facts have been rising unemployment with no relief in sight.
Politics in a time of crisis is not for the fainthearted. The middle-of-the road approach represented by the size of the stimulus was the wrong response to a crisis that called for a political gamble: the deployment of the massive fiscal firepower of the government against the predictable howls of anger from the right.
Fifth, Obama and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke deployed mainly Keynesian technocratic tools—deficit spending and monetary easing—to deal with the consequences of the massive failure of market fundamentalism. During a normal downturn these countercyclical tools may suffice to reverse the downturn. But standard Keynesianism could address such a serious collapse only in a very limited way. Besides, people were looking not only for relief in the short term but for a new direction that would enable them to master their fears and insecurities and give them reason to hope.
In other words, Obama failed to locate his Keynesian technocratic initiatives within a larger political and economic agenda that could have fired up a fairly large section of American society. Such a larger agenda could have had three pillars: the democratization of economic decision-making, from the enterprise level to the heights of macro-policymaking; an income and asset redistribution strategy that went beyond increasing taxes on the top two percent of the population; and the promotion of a more cooperative rather than competitive approach to production, distribution, and the management of resources. This agenda of social transformation, which was not too left, could have been accommodated within a classical social democratic framework. People were simply looking for an alternative to the Brave New Dog-Eat-Dog World that neo-liberalism had bequeathed them. Instead, Obama offered a bloodless technocratic approach to cure a political and ideological debacle.
Related to this absence of a program of transformation was the sixth reason for the Obama debacle: his failure to mobilize the grassroots base that brought him to power. This base was diverse in terms of class, generation, and ethnicity. But it was united by palpable enthusiasm, which was so evident in Washington, DC, and the rest of the country on Inauguration Day in 2009. With his preference for a technocratic approach and a bipartisan solution to the crisis, Obama allowed this base to wither away instead of exploiting the explosive momentum it possessed in the aftermath of the elections.
At the eleventh hour, Obama and the Democrats are talking about firing up and resurrecting this base. But the dispirited and skeptical troops that have long been disbanded and left by the wayside rightfully ask: around what?
The Right Makes the Right Moves
In contrast to Obama, the right wing understood the demands and dynamics of politics at a time of crisis, as opposed to politics in normal times. While Obama persisted in his quest for bipartisanship, the Republicans adopted a posture of hard-line opposition to practically all of his initiatives.
Unlike Obama and the Democrats, the right posed the conflict in stark political and ideological terms: between left and right, between "socialism" and "freedom," between the oppressive state and the liberating market. The Republican opposition used all the catchwords and mantras they could dredge up from bourgeois U.S. ideology.
Finally, in contrast to Obama's neglect of the Democratic base, the right eschewed Republican interest-group politics. Fox News, Sarah Palin, and the tea party movement stirred up the right-wing base to challenge the Republican Party elite and drive a no-compromise, take-no-prisoners politics. To understand what has happened to the Republican Party in the last few weeks with the string of tea party successes in the primaries, historian Arno Mayer's distinction among conservatives, reactionaries, and counterrevolutionaries is useful. In Mayer's terms, the counterrevolutionaries, with their populist, anti-insider, and grassroots-driven politics are displacing the conservative elites that have long held sway in the Republican Party.
With their anti-spending platform, the Republicans and tea partiers that might capture the House and the Senate in November will probably bring about a worse situation than today. As such, Obama and the Democrats might repeat Bill Clinton's political trajectory when he scored a victory at the polls in 1996 because the Republicans led by Newt Gingrich overreached politically after their triumph in the midterm elections of 1994. But this is a desperate illusion. The current counterrevolutionaries and their backers are skilled in the politics of blame, and they will likely be successful in painting the worsening situation as a result of Obama's "socialist policies," not of drastic cuts in government spending.
Lessons for the Left
The problem lies not so much in our lack of a strategic alternative as in our failure to translate our strategic vision or paradigm into a credible and viable political program. Politics in a period of crisis is different from politics in a period of normality, being more fluid and marked by the volatility of class, political, and intellectual attachments. We should remember that politics is the art of creating and sustaining a political movement from diverse class and social forces through a flexible but principled political program that can adapt to changing circumstances.
Finally, there is no such thing as an objectively determined situation. The art of politics is using the contradictions, spaces, and ambiguities of the current moment to shape structures and institutions and create a critical mass for change. Class, economic, and political structures may condition political outcomes; they do not determine them. Who will ultimately emerge the victor from this period of prolonged capitalist crisis will depend on smart and skilled political leadership.
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I am most struck by one sentence in this article:
"The key problem is the failure of progressives to translate their vision and values into a program that is convincing and connects with the people trapped in the terrible existential conditions created by the global financial crisis."
Boy does that line hit the nail on the head … and boy does the tone and tenor of this too-long and long-winded piece demonstrate why it is so. What average American beset by the "terrible existential conditions created by the global financial crisis" could even understand what this article is trying to say? It's too dense and too academic (OK I'll add to that it's downright pretentious).
The problem is the Left (if you will) no longer counts enough average Americans among their ranks. Now I'm not making some working class hero argument, nor arguing that our movement shouldn't have educated people in it, but this diatribe turns off even an sophisticated reader with its stylish (narcissistic) rhetoric.
Obama can't talk to them, academics talk about them; so is it any wonder that the Average American – besieged by insecurity, underpaid or underemployed, if paid or employed at all, broke and uninsured – listens to the over-simplified solutions of the simpletons of the Right?
The author is right. We have no convincing arguments that connect with the millions who vote. So we have no meaningful stake in the democracy. We either condescendingly by-pass them like Obama, or patronize them like some post-modern Vanguard Party, or we insult them as so many "Progressives" do by calling them stupid or crazy or worse.
Democracy is all about building consensus among these far-flung constituencies through, compelling, direct and above all personal communications about what's at stake and what we stand for. Today's politicians – of all stripes - show they've no talent for it, unless as the Republicans have done, they choose to lie, instill fear and propagandize their way into office.
Educated people and intellectuals contribute and can play a role - operative word: "role." But we need to be speaking for the working class people, promoting their interests (all of our interests) and ideas, not speaking at people with our solutions and ideas. We need to rejoin the working class, not demand that the rest of the working class join us. Verbal and analytical skills are important, but they are only one set of skills - having those skills does not make people superior, nor does it justify them forming a new aristocracy. Those skills need to be placed in the service of the greater good, to support and promote and defend the needs and aspirations of the entire working class, not used to bludgeon people into supporting our needs and aspirations.
The Republicans successfully move into a vacuum and can portray themselves as speaking for the every day people for the simple reason that no one else is. The intellectuals in progressive and liberal circles are so preoccupied with their own status and position and personal identities in the social hierarchy, and so obsessed with preventing the formation of any political Left, that they are entirely divorced from and irrelevant to most working class people.
When push comes to shove, most intellectuals and educated people will side with the ruling class. But we do need a few to fight for the working class. As it is, most educated people deny the existence of class, and deny the existence of class struggle. That in and of itself is siding with the ruling class and causing estrangement from the working class people. Most non-intellectual working class people already know that the battle is between the haves and the have-nots, but they are up against all of the educated and intellectual people on that point. They then can "find a home" in the fake populism of the tea party right.
"Promoting their interests" now includes "(all our interests)" if only parenthetically
"We need to rejoin the working class"
Who is "we"? If you mean what i think you mean (always a shaky proposition in our conversations) "we" have always been members of the "working" class. The problem is not in terms of actually joining such a "class", the problem is the recognition, on "both" sides of this artificial arbitrarily drawn aisle - "skilled" v "unskilled", "educated" v "uneducated" etc, etc that we are, in fact all members of this "class". As far as "bludgeon(ing) people into supporting our needs and aspirations", well ........
"we do need a few to fight for the working class. As it is, most educated people deny the existence of class, and deny the existence of class struggle. That in and of itself is siding with the ruling class ...."
"Most"? have you done a survey? I think "many" would serve the purpose of your point just as well and be subject to a lower standard of verification .....
Now you're slipping back into that divisive non-inclusive concept again.
Actually, I suspect that most of those "educated" folk have a very strong concept of "class", the idea of "class struggle" is, however, different, they want to rise in "class" or at least in the relative position they are in with respect to their perceived class. Their mistake is in not understanding that they too are cannon fodder. The mistake of the traditional "working" class you refer to is rejecting, out of hand, the concept that these folks are potential allies, nay, necessary, allies (as is true the other way around as well) in this "struggle" and instead painting them as "the enemy" - IMO, you epitomize that way of thinking - that's why i started this post with "Progress" with reference to your parenthetical phrase.
The only folk, IMO, who would wish to persist in promoting the concept of this (artificial) labor division are those who need it to promote their political philosophy. Otherwise, if one is truly interested in promoting the interests of ALL the people, then one, it seems to me, would be best advised to point out how artificial the distinctions you have made, indeed are, and working to heal the breach before continuing with the battle ...
I think even Marx himself, were he around today, even though his overall analysis might not change, would be redefining what he means by "class" ....
You cannot promote both the needs and desires of Wall Street and the needs and desire of Main Street, because they are in opposition to one another.
Th calls for not alienating "potential friends and allies" always means compromise.
Capital and Labor are artificial distinctions?
We need to "heal the breach" between those who have lost their homes and jobs and the billionaires who did that to them? Do we need to consider the needs and desires of the wealthy so as to be "inclusive?"
You are promoting the same "post partisan" and "all Americans" doctrine of the Obama administration and its supporters. Would you say that is what the Green party represents, or are you only speaking for yourself?
Once again you distort or misinterpret what i said - which distortion serves your purposes, but mangles my post.
"Th calls for not alienating "potential friends and allies" always means compromise."
Including more folks in your definition of "working class" compromises what, precisely.
"Capital and Labor are artificial distinctions?"
Duh, read it again, TA, i spoke of artificial distinctions among members of the working class. What happened to "all of us"? That was a blip on the screen wasn't it? Or was it a prolonged typo?
"We need to "heal the breach" between those who have lost their homes and jobs and the billionaires who did that to them? Do we need to consider the needs and desires of the wealthy so as to be 'inclusive?' "
Who said anything about "billionaires"? I, quite clearly, was referring to the "educated" classes who work for a living, you know the ones you apparently want to exclude, as folks who should be included.
"You are promoting the same "post partisan" and "all Americans" doctrine of the Obama administration and its supporters. Would you say that is what the Green party represents, or are you only speaking for yourself?"
Baloney! TA, there you go again. Taking someone who is quite clearly neither a supporter of Obama, nor his "doctrine" (which obviously doesn't include "all Americans" in any case), and trying, in a rather farcical fashion, IMO, to paint me, and the Greens with the same brush as him. Tch, tch, more "green - baiting" - shame on you!
TA, the "class" you speak of -"working people" - is far larger than your definition apparently allows, and your failure to accept and incorporate that fact does major damage to your cause. Your divide and conquer strategy is whacking you in the private parts but because you are too busy protecting your posterior, you can't identify the true source of your pain. Read Maude Barlowe's piece if you want to get an idea of a concept of how to help meet the needs of your "working class" in the 21st Century and beyond - get out of the 19th, for Pete's sake!
Your rhetoric is simply outdated, man - it's like defining "working class" as buggy whip makers - in the age of the automobile. By the way, are you an "educated" person? What does that mean, precisely?
I have been referring to those from the working class who speak for the ruling class. That is not excluding anyone from the working class, or limiting any definition of the working class. I am saying that some things that working class people say, especially educated working class people, do not support the interests of the working class. How is that difficult to understand or controversial?
I don't have any "cause" that I am worried about "damaging" and I am not in any pain. Maybe you are projecting - assuming that I share your feelings and view of this discussion.
"I have been referring to those from the working class who speak for the ruling class. That is not excluding anyone from the working class, or limiting any definition of the working class. I am saying that some things that working class people say, especially educated working class people, do not support the interests of the working class. How is that difficult to understand or controversial?"
Shucks, TA, that isn't difficult at all to understand, why you didn't say that in the first place, I'll never know, and how one could conceivably intuit this interpretation out of your previous post I'll never know, as well, but I suppose one can "interpret" one's own words, as well as those of others, to say whatever one likes ....
As far as the substance of your paragraph is concerned, most people say things, on occasion, that don't represent their own interests, so what is the point of this, now, rather obvious statement?
"I don't have any "cause" that I am worried about "damaging"
Does that mean you don't have any "cause"? Or that you are not worried about "damaging" one that you have?
"I am not in any pain."
Glad to hear it!
"Maybe you are projecting ...."
I do confess, sometimes this discussion does seem a bit "pained" ....
Glad I was able to make myself clear. Sorry for any previous confusion.
I do have a sense of there being a cause, yes, but I see myself as belonging to it, not it belonging to me. I suspect that cause will triumph after I am gone, and doesn't depend on me. The joy is in the struggle, the process. Hard to know the whens and hows of things happening. Also hard to know where and how you can be of service, and what sacrifice or suffering will be required of you.
I do have a burning personal desire to live in revolutionary times, but that is out of my control. Revolutionary times are fast approaching, no matter what any of us do or say, but I don't know that I will experience that and it is really impossible to make that happen (or to stop it from happening) and no way to know what role each of us may be called on to play.
"Revolutionary times are fast approaching, no matter what any of us do or say,"
Ah, so the forces needed, the movements necessary, are already pretty much in place?
No, the conditions are the key thing. Movements come from that, and then as a last step parties and politicians and then voting follow along.
For example, even as late as 1860 there was no "end slavery" choice on the ballot. But the conditions were right. There was a "no slavery" choice in 1868, after the battle had already been won. Partisan electoral politics are the last thing to change.
1860 Presidential ballot -
- Lincoln (Republican) - "stop the expansion of slavery"
- Bell (Whig) - "try to stop the expansion of slavery, but compromise with the Democrats"
- Douglas (Democrat) - "allow the expansion of slavery, but compromise with the Whigs"
- Breckenridge - "expand slavery"
There was no choice on the ballot in 1860 that "matched our values" - that called for the abolition of slavery. Yet it happened. Therefore, electoral choice was not necessary to, and could not have driven or caused Emancipation. Emancipation happened on its own, before any law changed, regardless of partisan electoral politics - the Underground Railroad, then thousands of slaves fleeing to Union army camps and commanders such as Grant hiring them - slaves were then de facto free in reality and that drove Emancipation, with the assistance of sympathizers in the Abolition movement who relentlessly rallied public opinion and pressured the politicians. The laws and the subsequent partisan elections merely certified, were a reflection of change that had already happened.
The question shifted from "should we free the slaves?" to "should we send the slaves back into bondage?" as a result of the struggle - entirely outside of the partisan electoral process - through the work and sacrifice and courage of the slaves themselves and sympathizers in the army and in the Abolition movement. That turned a 10% minority into a 60-70% majority in the North.
See the chain of cause and effect there?
Had there been an "end slavery" choice on the 1860 ballot, it almost certainly would have lost and that may well have set the cause back rather than advanced it.
Lucretia Mott
Born in Nantucket, Massachusetts on January 3, 1793, Lucretia Coffin Mott became a leading figure in the abolition of slavery and the women's rights movement during the 1800s, a position attributed primarily to her passionate speeches and sermons. The daughter of Thomas Coffin Jr. and Ann Folger, Mott became strongly influenced by her family's dedication to the Society of Friends (Quakers), which emphasized the value of equality among all people.
In 1837, Mott helped organize the First Anti-Slavery Convention of American Women in New York City, New York and was one of six women invited as delegates of Pennsylvania to attend the World's Anti-Slavery Convention in London in 1840. Upon arrival, Mott and other women were denied participation in the conference, fueling Mott as a feminist to further fight for women's equal rights. Following the conference, Mott and abolitionist Elizabeth Cady Stanton, who also attended, planned to bring women's rights to the forefront of American society. After returning from the Anti-Slavery Convention in London in 1840, Mott also appeared in slave-owning regions continuing her efforts in the abolition of slavery. She assisted slaves through the Underground Railroad and housed many slaves in her personal home. As a prominent figure in the anti-slavery movement, Mott was granted the opportunity to speak to Congress and President John Tyler regarding her beliefs of antislavery.
Elijah P. Lovejoy
In 1827 Lovejoy moved to St. Louis, Missouri, where he established a school and entered journalism. Six years later he became editor of the St. Louis Observer, a Presbyterian weekly in which he strongly condemned slavery and supported gradual emancipation. Missouri was a slave state, and in 1835 a letter signed by a number of important men in St. Louis requested him to moderate the tone of his editorials. He replied in an editorial reiterating his views and his right to publish them. Threats of mob violence, however, forced him to move his press across the Mississippi River to Alton, in the free state of Illinois. Despite its new location, his press was destroyed by mobs several times in one year. Finally, on the night of November 7, 1837, a mob attacked the building, and Lovejoy was killed in its defense. The news of his death stirred the people of the North profoundly and led to a great strengthening of abolitionist sentiment.
William Lloyd Garrison
Garrison was the son of an itinerant seaman who subsequently deserted his family. The son grew up in an atmosphere of declining New England Federalism and lively Christian benevolence—twin sources of the abolition movement, which he joined at age 25. As editor of the National Philanthropist (Boston) in 1828 and the Journal of the Times (Bennington, Vermont) in 1828–29, he served his apprenticeship in the moral reform cause. In 1829, with a pioneer abolitionist, Benjamin Lundy, he became co-editor of the Genius of Universal Emancipation in Baltimore; he also served a short term in jail for libeling a Newburyport merchant who was engaged in the coastal slave trade. Released in June 1830, Garrison returned to Boston and, a year later, established The Liberator, which became known as the most uncompromising of American antislavery journals. In the first issue of The Liberator he stated his views on slavery vehemently: "I do not wish to think, or speak, or write, with moderation. I am in earnest — I will not equivocate — I will not excuse — I will not retreat a single inch — AND I WILL BE HEARD."
David Walker
African American abolitionist David Walker (1785-1830) wrote Walker's Appeal, urging slaves to resort to violence when necessary to win their freedom. Walker was born free, of a free mother and slave father, in Wilmington, N.C., on Sept. 28, 1785. He early learned to read and write, and he read extensively on the subjects of revolution and resistance to oppression. When he was about 30, he left the South, because "If I remain in this bloody land, I will not live long. As true as God reigns, I will be avenged for the sorrows which my people have suffered." In 1826 Walker settled in Boston, Mass., where he became the agent for Freedom's Journal, the black abolitionist newspaper, and a leader in the Colored Association. For a living he ran a secondhand clothing store.
John Brown
Though he was white, in 1849 Brown settled with his family in a black community founded at North Elba, New York, on land donated by the New York antislavery philanthropist Gerrit Smith. Long a foe of slavery, Brown became obsessed with the idea of taking overt action to help win justice for enslaved black people. In 1855 he followed five of his sons to the Kansas Territory to assist antislavery forces struggling for control there. With a wagon laden with guns and ammunition, Brown settled in Osawatomie and soon became the leader of antislavery guerrillas in the area.
Harriet Ann Jacobs
Born into slavery, Jacobs still was taught to read at an early age. After escaping to the North in 1842, Jacobs worked as a nursemaid in New York City and eventually moved to Rochester, New York, to work in the antislavery reading room above abolitionist Frederick Douglass's newspaper, the North Star. During an abolitionist lecture tour with her brother, Jacobs began her lifelong friendship with the Quaker reformer Amy Post. Post, among others, encouraged Jacobs to write the story of her enslavement. Self-published in 1861, Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl is arguably the most comprehensive slave narrative written by a woman. Jacobs's narrative does not shrink from discussing the sexual abuse of slaves or the anguish felt by slave mothers who faced the loss of their children.
If voting did not end slavery, then who or what did, and how did that happen? What lessons and examples for us might there be that are overlooked?
Sojourner Truth
For the duration of her adult life, Sojourner Truth spoke out about the social injustice and inequality experienced by African-Americans and women. With the help of friends, she wrote and published her memoirs, and spoke at abolitionist gatherings. She lobbied for land to be set aside in the West for free blacks after the Civil War, and successfully helped conduct a campaign for integrated streetcars in Washington D.C. From the depths of slavery, Sojourner Truth built a reputation for her powerful oration, and her deeply emotional life story inspired thousands of Americans to rethink their definition of equality.
Nathaniel Turner
Nathaniel Turner (1800-1831) was a black American who organized and led the most successful slave revolt in the United States. This slave rebellion catalyzed the beginning of the abolitionist movement in the United States. Because Turner's motive was a desire for liberty, some regard him as cast in the same mold as the American patriots who fought the Revolutionary War and as other freedom-loving men. No less than Patrick Henry, Turner too believed that "give me liberty or give me death" must be man's guiding philosophy of life.
Harriet Ross Tubman
Harriet Ross Tubman (ca. 1820-1913) was a black American who, as an agent for the Underground Railroad, a clandestine escape route used to smuggle slaves to freedom in the North and Canada, helped hundreds flee captivity. Harriet Ross was a slave child who suffered the usual hardships of black children during the period of Southern slavery. During the next 10 years Harriet Tubman returned to the South 20 times to help approximately 300 slaves, including her own parents, to escape. Using a complicated system of way stations on the route from the South to Canada, she is believed never to have lost a charge. In 1850 the Federal Fugitive Slave Law was reinforced with a clause that promised punishment to anyone who aided an escaping slave. In addition, a price of $40,000 was set for Tubman's capture. Thus she began transporting some slaves past the North to refuge in Canada.
Denmark Vesey
Denmark Vesey (1767-1822), an African American who fought to liberate his people from slavery, planned an abortive slave insurrection. After careful examination of the historical record, the judgment of Sterling Stuckey remains valid: "Vesey's example must be regarded as one of the most courageous ever to threaten the racist foundations of America.... He stands today, as he stood yesterday ... as an awesome projection of the possibilities for militant action on the part of a people who have for centuries been made to bow down in fear."
Angelina Grimke
American abolitionist and advocate of women's rights, b. Charleston, S.C. Converted to the Quaker faith by her elder sister Sarah Moore Grimké, she became an abolitionist in 1835, wrote An Appeal to the Christian Women of the South (1836) in testimony of her conversion, and with her sister began speaking around New York City. She developed into an orator of considerable power and was invited (1837) to lecture in Massachusetts. Her three appearances before the Massachusetts legislative committee on antislavery petitions early in 1838 constituted a triumph. The same year she married Theodore Dwight Weld, also an active abolitionist. Ill health after her marriage led her to abandon the lecture platform, but she continued to aid Weld in his abolitionist work and maintained a lasting, lively interest in the cause to which they had contributed so much.
Harriet Beecher Stowe
Harriet Beecher Stowe was born into a prominent, religious, Calvinist family in Litchfield, Connecticut on 14 June 1811. She married a seminary professor, Calvin Ellis Stowe, and had seven children, several of whom died during childhood. 'Uncle Tom's Cabin', her first novel, was published in 1852 and provoked, to Mrs. Stowe's satisfaction, an intense and undeniable reaction -- at home and abroad -- against American slavery. She wrote many more novels, none of them as famous or important as her first, the best-selling novel of the nineteenth century.
Wendell Phillips
After opening a law office in Boston, Phillips, a wealthy Harvard Law School graduate, sacrificed social status and a prospective political career in order to join the antislavery movement. He became a close associate of the abolitionist leader William Lloyd Garrison and began lecturing for antislavery societies, writing pamphlets and editorials for Garrison's The Liberator, and contributing financially to the abolition movement.
As a reform crusader, Phillips allied himself with Garrison in refusing to link abolition with political action; together they condemned the federal Constitution for its compromises over slavery and advocated national disunion rather than continued association with the slave states. During the Civil War (1861–65) he assailed President Abraham Lincoln's reluctance to uproot slavery at once, and after the Emancipation Proclamation (January 1863) he threw his support to full civil liberties for freedmen. In 1865 he became president of the American Anti-Slavery Society after Garrison resigned.
No mention of Obama's record on human rights, which closely resembles that of Darth Vader--and which is hard to blame on Congress.
Progressives are trying to forget it, but they were clearly and repeatedly warned about Obama by their peers, and their response to this information was to attack their fellow progressives, often quite viciously. Our problems may go deeper than one rotten President.
No mention of Obama's record on human rights, which closely resembles that of Darth Vader--and which is hard to blame on Congress.
Progressives are trying to forget it, but they were clearly and repeatedly warned about Obama by their peers, and their response to this information was to attack their fellow progressives, often quite viciously. Our problems may go deeper than one rotten President.
The real lesson is that the modern Democratic Party is just as much a part of the corporate control structure as the Republican party.
Ralph Nader and Cynthia McKinney were right. Will we continue to ignore them and others like them, just as we ignored the economists who warned of the impending global crash?
Stop pouring your energy into a party that consistently betrays you. Register Green, vote Green, and organize Green.
The Green Party is the only party based on principles of grassroots democracy, social justice, nonviolence, ecology, and getting corporate money out of politics.
Mr. Bello's arguments -- especially his assertion the Left has failed to connect with victims of capitalist seizures of wealth -- are certainly thought-provoking, but he curiously omits the most important elements of the crisis.
Like Obama and the Democrats, Mr. Bello carefully skirts the fact the sole source of the economic problem is the nature of capitalism -- infinite greed as maximum virtue and limitless selfishness as ultimate good -- an inherent savagery that leads inevitably to fascism.
Indeed it is already obvious the capitalists now control government at every U.S. level.
Thus policy and law increasingly serve only capitalist purposes: absolute power and unlimited profit for the Ruling Class; total subjugation and bottomless poverty for the rest of us.
What this means is that the American Experiment in constitutional democracy is dead beyond any hope of resuscitation.
Mr. Bello also ignores the inherent bigotry and hatefulness of U.S. Caucasians -- the fact the election of Obama has enabled hate-mongers to open the cesspool of racial, ethnic, homophobic and religious malevolence that has always been an underlying but mostly hidden characteristic of a vast majority within the nation's white population.
Never in my lifetime (70 years) have these hatreds been so shamelessly agitated to such a deadly dangerous nationwide frenzy.
Thus the lack of a compelling indictment of capitalism combines with explosive release of the Caucasian population's long pent-up hatreds to virtually guarantee a rightist sweep both in the November election and in 2012.
Thus too Mr. Bello misses how these elements combine into an irreversible juggernaut of horror -- as if we are trapped in a vehicle racing downhill toward a new form of Nazism with absolutely no remaining possibility of changing our national direction.
Apropos the notion of Obama's blunders, my own reluctant but growing belief is that Obama has not blundered at all -- that the man for whom I voted is doing exactly what the Ruling Class intended him to do -- suppressing the Left by serial betrayals and infuriating the implicitly white-supremacist Right by being a Black man in the (implicitly and exclusively) White House.
The result is a singularly U.S. brand of chaos.
But the approach closely parallels how the Ruling Class paralyzed the Weimar Republic and so cleared the way for Hitler.
In this context the real "debacle" is how "change we can believe in" has become absolute proof of the imbecility of hope.
I just heard something deeply disturbing on Democracy Now. I suggest listening to the part of Amy's show today that deals with Obama's endless detention - and disappearing the judge's ruling. Literally - disappearing it!
"Obama debacle"? That is like calling the gang torture of the homosexual men in new york last weekend, "bullying".
A final salvo (and an insightful analysis) of the circular firing squad. If you don't support your friends, you elect your enemies. That's how democracy works. The left succeeded in having Bush appointed by voting for Nader. Let's see how we manage to elect the likes of O'Donnell, Paladino and Angle. That might be our best bet actually; we had to destroy governance in order to save it!
Bello's article is excellent. The central problem can be summed up by pointing out Obama's betrayal of his base - his total lack of principled leadership while trying to make nice with crocodiles. But then, the left has long wasted so much counter-productive energy in making out a battle between capitalism and socialism when REALITY is that there is no such battle. The world economic system is capitalism. The degree to which a society is socialistic is the degree to which the excesses of capitalism are tempered for the common good.
"The problem with us progressives at this time of crisis is not that we lack an alternative paradigm to pit against the discredited neoliberal paradigm. No, the elements of the alternative based on the values of democracy, justice, equality, and environmental sustainability are there and have been there for sometime, the product of collective intellectual and activist work over the last few decades."
i stopped right here.
no need to waste time on this neo-lib rubbish.
what the hell does "fluid" even mean?
if one can't translate an idea into a practice, one can be sure as heck that the idea is bunk.
but one will need a Ph.D. from a prestigeous private institution to muck up that simple truth.
When Obama entered office, he inherited a financial situation that neither he nor any other Democrat would have been in a position to adequately deal with under the political climate then and now in existence. The Republicans knew that and early on developed a policy of defeating Obama and the Democrats simply by denying them the means of solving the country's ills and misleading the American people in every possible way. Initial polls showed that the electorate wanted Obama to be bipartisan in his dealings with the Republicans, and he vainly tried to be so. He gave it his best effort because he thought it was politically wise, not because he thought it would work. He knew what the Republicans were up to, but he thought the American people would appreciate his efforts and, therefore, support his policies. Unfortunately, the Democrats in congress were not united from the beginning. The conservative Democrats came from mostly conservative states, and they had their constituents and their monetary backers to worry about as far as re-election was concerned. They were only willing to bend so far to support Obama. For the most part, the Republicans were united in their approach. As a result, Obama's political approach was to get legislation through congress that votes allowed him to get. It was not as if he chose to be moderate rather than progressive. Rather, it was because he really had no choice. He was a pragmatist. Some say that he could have simply spoken out more strongly for progressive policies and those policies would have somehow become reality. That is politically naive. What is driving down the popularity of the Democrats is the state of the economy over which they have little control. It would have been beneficial had they been able to get the amount of money necessary to have "righted the ship", but the votes were not there. Frankly, I believe Obama has done a pretty good job considering the cards he was dealt. Granted, he is not a strong president, but he has tried very diligently, in my opinion, to make the best decisions available to him, and I think he has done about as well as he could have considering what he has had to deal with. Had he not inherited a mini-depression, and if the complexities of health care and the economy had not been so difficult for the American people to understand and so easy for the Republicans to distort in their favor, I think we would be looking at Obama in a much different light.
With the way Obama and his party in Congress are working so hard to fail themselves, only a complete idiot would believe any of that bs. The man can't even lead. What is a president who says that he'll take anything Congress passes? He's no different from GWB.


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Joshua Marcus is doing his part in saving the endangered, practically extinct (especially in Miami) species that is the Jewish deli. But Marcus isn't all schmaltz and is taking Josh's Deli to the next level with an experimental small plates menu offered this coming Friday and Saturday night. On that menu is traditional Jewish fare with a modern twist. Mushroom barley soup with parmesan and truffle oil; chopped liver made with foie gras, charoset, Mainschewitz reduction and pressed challah; a matzo ball composed of dashi, pork belly (!), poached egg and nori; gefilte fish with shrimp (!), horseradish and beets; tongue with sweet and sour sauce, pineapple and roasted pepper; and a Reuben with corned veal cheek, sauerkraut, Russian dressing and melted Swiss. Not your Bubbie's nosh at all. The combo of Asian and Jewish is quite clever considering Asian fare is certified Jewish food especially on non-Jewish holidays.
We asked Marcus about all this and he told us that after doing a trial for three days last weekend "just to see if people would get what we were doing," he decided to try it out every Friday and Saturday and, "if it does well, maybe Thursday and/or Sunday as well." As for what inspired him, "my desire to push the boundaires of traditional Jewish food," he says. "How far can the Jewish palate be pushed before it is no longer considered Jewish food? Does Jewish food have a place in the modern day culinary landscape beyond pastrami? Are non-Jews interested in the flavor profiles of a group of people that basically wandered around Eastern and Central Europe? Can Jewish 'soul food' appeal to someone who didn't have a Bubbie?" More than four very thought (and appetite) provoking questions that can be answered by doing what we Jews do very well--by eating.
Joshua Marcus of Josh's Deli
[1] http://www.miami.com/restaurants/locally-sourced-miami
[2] http://www.miami.com/new-chef-new-look-azul-mandarin-oriental-miami-article
[3] http://www.miami.com/restaurants/first-look
[4] http://www.miami.com/what039s-best-5-great-carpaccios-article
[5] http://www.miami.com/restaurants/nibbles-and-bits
[6] http://www.miami.com/cheen-huaye-mexican-restaurant-expands-menu-dining-room-north-miami-article
[7] http://www.miami.com/restaurants/fork-road
[8] http://www.miami.com/new-kitchen-leadership-bocce-bar-article
[9] http://www.miami.com/mignonette-oyster-bar-miami039s-edgwater-slated-august-1-opening-and-we-have-menu-article
[10] http://www.miami.com/jerry039s-famous-deli-now-closed-article
[11] http://www.miami.com/now-open-n-naoe-kevin-cory039s-new-brickell-key-prix-fixe-lunch-spot-article
[12] http://www.miami.com/ibiza-clubrestaurantcabaret-and-senor-frog039s-opening-south-beach-article
[13] http://www.miami.com/umami-burger-closed-blue-collar039s-new-chef-de-cuisine-philip-bryant-leaves-swine-southern-table-amp-bar-article
[14] http://www.miami.com/khong-river-house-experiments-new-menu-items-article
[15] http://www.miami.com/closed-quotsummer-vacationquot-la-maison-miami-article
[16] http://www.miami.com/catch-closed-and-allegedly-moving-new-miami-location-article
[17] http://www.miami.com/nyc-based-chef-agency-expands-miami-place-big-name-chefs-article
[18] http://www.twitter.com/miamicom

subset: commoncrawl


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Alumni, students, parents, faculty and staff members are invited to enjoy an evening at the ball park.
Students in the Residential and Graduate and Professional Studies program recognized on lists for their academic achievements.
Ashley Sarmiento earns South Atlantic Conference Presidents Award for second year, five earn All-American honors and 99 on conference honor roll.
What should you pack to make sure your student settles into residence life at Tusculum?
Tusculum College is now offering online mathematics modules to remediate math skill weaknesses prior to the start of fall semester.
Posted on 16 July 2014
The evening will feature the two museums on the Tusculum campus, the Doak House Museum and the President Andrew Johnson Museum and Library, and several other area museums and historic groups on the concourse at Pioneer Park, also located at the college.
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Posted on 09 July 2014
Ronda Gentry joins Tusculum College in the Center for Civic Advancement (CCA) as the director of the center.
Gentry comes to Tusculum from Virginia Intermont College where she most recently served as vice president for institutional advancement. She has a Bachelor of Science in mathematics from Campbell University, a Master of Divinity from the Duke Divinity School. She is currently a Ph.D. candidate at Union Institute and University and is working on her dissertation.
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Posted on 30 June 2014
Dr. Lisa Johnson has been named interim vice president of academic affairs at Tusculum College. Johnson steps into the position previously held by Dr. Melinda Dukes who will be returning to the classroom as a member of the Tusculum College faculty. Dr. Johnson will serve in this capacity until August 11. Dr. Johnson previously served [...]
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Posted on 27 June 2014
Tusculum College President Nancy B. Moody has been invited to participate in the second class of Leadership Tennessee. The class was announced this week through the Lipscomb University Nelson and Sue Andrews Institute for Civic Leadership.
The program is designed to cultivate a network of business, nonprofit, education and government leaders who are committed to addressing the state's challenges and opportunities. The class includes 31 members from across Tennessee.
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Posted on 18 June 2014
Wayne Thomas has been named interim dean of the School of Arts and Sciences at Tusculum College, effective July 1.
Thomas has served as chair of the Department of Fine Arts and as associate professor of English. He has served previously as the chair of the English Department. He joined Tusculum College in 2005 and has not only continuously worked to serve his students and grow his departments, but has built several strong arts and humanities programs that have become part of the College's culture.
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Posted on 03 June 2014
Volunteers are needed to assist with the Remote Area Medical (RAM) free-health care clinic, scheduled to be held at Tusculum College, Nov. 7-9.
RAM is a Knoxville-based organization providing free medical care for the uninsured and underinsured. Volunteers are needed for all three days. Tusculum College, which is hosting the event, and coordinators are recruiting volunteers to sign up to help.
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Posted on 02 June 2014
Tusculum College History Professor Benjamin Pearson contributed a chapter to the newly published German book, "Globalisierung der Kirchen. Der Ökumenische Rat der Kirchen und die Entdeckung der Dritten Welt in den 1960er und 1970er Jahren (Globalization of the Churches: The World Council of Churches and the Discovery of the Third World in the 1960s and 1970s)."
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Posted on 19 May 2014
Dr. Nancy B. Moody was presented a resolution recently passed by the Tennessee State Legislature honoring her as president of Tusculum College during the Board of Trustees meeting.
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Posted on 15 May 2014
As you begin the next chapter of your life, Tusculum College would like to make you aware of options related to federal law and your health insurance plans. The attached information describes the healthcare opportunities now available to graduates. This document lays out the options available including getting health insurance through employer-based coverage, staying on a parent's plan until the age of 26, as well as going to HealthCare.gov to choose a plan in the Health Insurance Marketplace.
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Posted on 05 May 2014
A National Nurses Week Celebration Walk has been scheduled for Monday, May 12, to mark the ending of National Nurses Week. Registration for the event will begin at 5:30 p.m., with the event itself beginning at 6 p.m. at Pioneer Field on the Tusculum College campus.
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3 hacked to death in Misamis Oriental
Posted at 08/01/2012 10:29 AM | Updated as of 08/01/2012 10:29 AM
MANILA, Philippines - Three people were killed in a hacking incident in Misamis Oriental province Wednesday.
Initial investigation showed that suspect Joni Macalagi first hacked his wife Crisanta due to a family squabble.
He then turned his anger towards his neighbor Rogelio Tublan and killed him.
The incident happened around 7 a.m. in Barangay Casinglot in Tagoloan.
The third fatality was Macalagi himself who sustained hack wounds allegedly from another suspect. Report from Fred Dellava, dzMM


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Office Depot is offering a coupon to shred up to five pounds of documents at the link below, through April 29. A pound of paper is roughly a 1/2-inch stack.
Click here for the deal. The coupon expires April 29. The offer is one per household.
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Home > Books > eBooks & Accessories > Accessories > eBook Accessories
Barnes & Noble
Barnes & Noble Nook Car Charging Kit
Available for In-Store Pickup Only.
To get maximum enjoyment from your NOOK's headphone output, we recommend these high-quality earphones, designed specifically for Banes & Noble by JAYS of Sweden. The earphones come with 5 pairs of removable tips that are angled for comfort and sized from XXS to L for a custom fit. Employing 8.6mm dynamic drivers, they deliver full, extended bass, a lush mid-range, and clear, silky highs. As an added bonus, the earphones reduce ambient noise by as much as 40 dB. The coated, flat rubber cable is 45 inches long, tangle free (thanks to its unique design), and terminated in a gold-plated 3.5mm stereo plug.
Product Information
Mfr Part#
Power Adapter
Kit includes 5 pairs of tips (sizes XXS-L) and 45" cable; Tips made of silicon rubber with matte finish and silk-screened logo; Suitable for NOOK Color, NOOK Wi-Fi, and NOOK 3G + Wi-Fi; 8.6 mm dynamic drivers; Frequency response: 20 Hz-18,000 Hz
Important Add-Ons
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Warranty & Support
Vendor Support:
- Main Website: www.barnesandnoble.com/
- Support Website: www.barnesandnoble.com/customerservice/contactus
- Support Phone #: 800.843.2665
Micro Center Return Policy:
We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund — and you won't even need a receipt.* We want you to be satisfied with your Micro Center purchase. However, if you need help or need to return an item, we're here for you!
If an item you have purchased from us is not working as expected, please visit one of our in-store Knowledge Experts for free help, where they can solve your problem or even exchange the item for a product that better suits your needs.
If you need to return an item, simply bring it back to any Micro Center store for a full refund or exchange.
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Desktop / notebook computers, tablets, processors, motherboards, digital cameras, camcorders and projectors, and CD/DVD duplicators may be returned within 15 days of purchase. All other products may be returned within 30 days of purchase. Merchandise must be in new condition, with original carton/UPC, and all packaging/accessories/materials. If you need to return software, a game or a movie, remember that you may not retain any copies — it's not legal, and it's not nice.Refunds will be credited to the credit card or debit card account used for the original purchase.
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Former Priestley College student aims to outdo Fifty Shades of Grey with her erotic lesbian fiction (From Warrington Guardian)
Text us your news! Start your message Warrington News and send any photos or videos to 80360
Former Priestley College student aims to outdo Fifty Shades of Grey with her erotic lesbian fiction
Updated 1:37pm Wednesday 12th March 2014 in News By David Morgan, Entertainment Reporter
STRANGE assumptions have been made about Latchford author Emily Chriscoli since she started writing a series of novels inspired by Fifty Shades of Grey.
The 23-year-old came up with the idea for her Victory trilogy after reading E. L. James's erotic fiction on holiday in Egypt.
"To be honest I was a bit bored," said Emily.
"The sex stuff in it was boring because it was constant. It just went on and on. There was sex on every page.
"It felt like the storyline could have been done in one book rather than three."
So Emily started penning her own Warrington version.
The first book Vee for Victory claimed top spot on Amazon's most downloaded books just before Christmas while the sequel Ivy League recently shot to number two.
But the former Priestley College student told Weekend that life has not been the same as readers have been making assumptions about her love life ever since.
The Victory series is about a young married mum-of-three called Cait whose life is turned upside down after having an affair with a woman.
Emily, whose mum Angela proof reads her books, said: "Everyone says to me: 'Who is she? Is she you?' "Some people think that I'm a lesbian or that I want to be a lesbian. People actually ask me that at work.
"Some of the girls at work don't get it but the boys are really interested in it – a bit too much. But it's not personal experiences. It's not my life."
The St Mary's Street resident, who has banned her dad Nick from reading the novels, added: "Then there are those that think if I'm writing about naughty stuff I must be up to naughty things.
"A man in Texas said: 'If I offered you $1,000 would you fly over and read the book naked?' People do just make assumptions.
"But some people now confide in me. This girl contacted me and said: 'I'm having an affair with a woman and I'm married and have kids. I feel like you're writing about my life'."
Despite the Warrington setting, the novels have gone on to sell well in Australia, America and particularly France.
But not everyone is a fan.
Emily said: "A really religious group contacted me on Twitter and criticised me. I just deleted it."
The call centre worker's love of fiction began long before Fifty Shades of Grey though.
Some of her lessons at Our Lady's Primary School were held in the library and she used to grab books when the teacher was not looking.
Her favourite childhood authors were Jacqueline Wilson and Roald Dahl.
Emily's mum used to read to her and sisters Rachel and Louise and now does the same for her five grandchildren.
Then when she was in Year Five, she won a competition to finish a story that Roald Dahl was working on when he died.
Emily is now working on the final installment of the Victory saga which is due out in the summer But reading her own work still makes her blush.
"I do get embarrassed," added Emily.
"I did a video reading of it the other day and I went so red. I don't know why, I wrote the words."
The author is currently balancing work, writing and studies at the Manchester School of Acting.
She is writing a new play called The Call Centre based on her experiences working in Birchwood after the success of her previous controversial play, A Walk In The Park.
- Vee For Victory and Ivy League are available to buy as digital books at amazon.co.uk
Comments (3)
Please log in to enable comment sorting
4:06pm Wed 12 Mar 14
GRUMPY PARENT says...
If any of these girls want my number let me know!
Still Grumpy
9:18pm Wed 12 Mar 14
muckerman says...
12:50pm Thu 13 Mar 14
Geordie1970 says...
I'd be disappointed if it wasn't set on West Park.
Comments are closed on this article.


text:
Despite an early scare, Michael Bisping finishes Jorge Rivera in the second roundPosted on February 26, 2011, 10:56 PM by Daniel Cassidy
In the Co-Main event of the evening, Michael Bisping and Jorge Rivera's much anticipated bout ended in the second round, with the Brit finishing the fight via TKO, with Rivera unable to answer the referee's calls to fight back.
The bout maintained a high pace throughout, with both fighters happy to exchange. The first round will however will be over shadowed by Bisping's illegal knee, thrown from the clinch when Rivera was on both knees. When the fight restarted, both fighters again took the centre of The Octagon, "The Count" delivering blow after blow as his opponent struggled to provide an answer, looking constantly for that one right hand.
The second round saw Rivera come close to a finish, catching his opponent with a big right hand and stunning him, but Bisping recovered and ended the fight quickly, punishing "El Conquistadore" against the cage before the referee stepped in.
UnderdogGreatnessSharp14Weak | 7Funny | 0Cool | 0
The illegal knee was a dirty move by Bisping, but I still think he would have won the fight no matter what.
TheGoocHSharp8Weak | 2Funny | 0Cool | 0
yea its not the first time hes done that too. not an amazing performance but still exactly the way i thought it was gunna go and yea that knee kinda killed it for me.
austinvermillionSharp12Weak | 8Funny | 0Cool | 0
personally i thought bisping i was thinking jorge rivera was on the way back to his feet so he threew the knee and jorge never stud up and i think i didnt effect jorge that much cause he came out and knock bisping kinda down in the second round so
ck1Sharp2Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
The cardio was going to be a big factor and that had nothing to do with the knee. bisping always has great cardio and it pulls him threw fights. rivera was never going to be able to go at the same pace and also he was only ever relying on the right hand. Bisping did take some shots but to go against rivera and the bisping haters, he took them and carried on. Very happy for him to win but when i saw him spit at riveras team, well that was low.
jsnwhtSharp4Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Bisbing wouldn't have won the fight if Rivera would've stayed down. And that's what he should've done. He was noticeably slower after that knee. He tried to show professional respect by treating it as a mistake and trying his best to fight through it. But it was obviously purposeful. Rivera wasn't even close to being up.
He should've stayed down. Then they could fight again sometime. I wanted to see a fair fight between the two. But to be honest, I also wish Rivera would've stayed down and given Bisbing a loss if for no other reason than to punish him for being such a d*ickhead.
EndoSharp3Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
I agree Austin, there's been some poor behaviour from a few British fighters recently "and I say that as a Brit" but that was just a case of timing. He was less than a second away from pulling a knee up.
austinvermillionFunny1Sharp | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
wow i thought for sure that no budy was going to argree with me hahaha
evilwaysSharp7Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Jorge looked slow as hell compared to Bisbing
samboFunny7Sharp | 1Weak | 1Cool | 0
The illegal knee spoiled the win but i'm sure Bisping doesn't care. He gave Rivera the beating he needed. Maybe next fight jorge will make videos about how hard he is training.
LowkickDickSharp12Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Unfortunately we will have to endure the "what ifs" surrounding the knee.
tazSharp5Weak | 4Funny | 0Cool | 0
i think rivera had recovered as he was able to throw some powerfull shots after the knee and he even landed that big right hand. so i don't think the knee played apart in the fight ending.
Boner89Sharp12Weak | 6Funny | 0Cool | 0
Bisping didn't apologize for the Knee after the fights, not classy at all. I bet Bisping would have bitched about it if the tables were turned. I lost respect for him and gained tons for Rivera, a lesser man would have quite after that knee and taken the DQ.
slickrickSharp7Weak | 6Funny | 0Cool | 0
You gained respect for a man who made about 7 trash talking childish videos and then got his arse handed to him? Wow .. thats backwards. I ganed more respect for Bisping as he went into that fight very emotional, and it was a dangerous fight to take for Bisping as there was alot to loose. that being said, Bisping performed very well, shame bout the bad timing on the knee ... but overall, a great performance from Bisping
Boner89Sharp1Weak | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
Did I say i gained respect for him for the videos? No those def we pretty petty, but after the fight I most certainly did. Besides I get the feeling Jorge was try'n to promote the fight the best way he knew how, this was by far the biggest stage he's been on. Bisping is the one who let it get to him.
ck1Sharp2Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
@slick. im an english guy and a bisping fan and i agree with some of what you say, and the knee was certainly not intentional, but everyone seems to be hiding the fact that bisping went to the riveras team and spat at them. Thats disgusting and low and if rivera did that to his team then he would have been making a real situation about it. dana obviously doesnt want it to come out cos he should discipline him for it but he wont cos bisping is and has been the uk poster boy and dana likes him.
StoneFieldSharp2Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
nope i think he shoulda waited until they were in the ring personally, im american and ashamed at jorge and his whole team. heres the plain and simple truth.... jorges team is there to train jorge, not play sing-along and they are def not paid to act. i guess they thought they had some kind of reason to rile the count up; and now we all know what happens when u do that! illegal knees happen get over them they were legal in pride and the only reason they are not here is cause we are "civilized" and dont want it to look like **** fighting.. he shouldnt o been DQ'd unless he did it more than once and as i said before i dont think bisping will fly off the handle with spitting again, he exorcised those demons and he'll learn from the bad PR... still a classy fighter and deserving of the win; if u doubt his professionalism re-watch the Akiyama fight
austinvermillionSharp4Weak | 1Cool | 1Funny | 0
i agree with u im a huge bisping fan and man i thought bisping was struggling kinda on the feet but i think he look differnt on the feet cause he was so pumped up about the videos and shit rivera i look to see a way better bisping in the next fight
tazSharp3Cool | 1Funny | 0Weak | 0
bisping looked better and was better on his feet, just look at the fight stats.
austinvermillionCool1Funny | 0Weak | 0Sharp | 0
i think bisping looked differnt on the feet tonight because of his emotions
Riddle-jitsuFunny7Weak | 2Sharp | 1Cool | 0
"go home loser" made me laugh
austinvermillionWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
me two
mma ausWeak15Sharp | 2Funny | 0Cool | 0
Bisping is a ****ing peace of shit if you watch just before the knee he is hit with a right and like always he shit himself so we go to the ground and suprise that pissweak ****bag pauses when he see jorge on his knees and the throws the knee you can see that they were close to stoping the fight as jorge stands blinking against the cage but showing ball and heart he wants to go on that was a very heavy knee and i think it efectlivy finished the fight I for one would like to see how long it would have taken jorge to find a home for that right if there was no knee
KeithFarrellSharp5Weak | 3Cool | 1Funny | 0
Crying cause your homeboy got a whoopin? Bisping landed that knee and ot weaken Rivera, it was accidental though. Knee or not Rivera was not going to win this fight unless he landed a lucky right hand on Bisping..... wait he did this and Bisping still won!
austinvermillionSharp3Weak | 1Cool | 1Funny | 0
dude are u serious man frist u need to calm down really cause after that knee rivera rocked bisping so i think he was still in it and biusping just clip him with a good right hand and then like 4 hook s and elbows and rivera just went down like i said bisping thought rivera was geting up and he didnt so he was planing ahead and rivera was gased and u think rocked from a bisping punch on the ground so he coundlt stand up it was bad timing mistake by bisping
AccyfistCool2Funny | 0Weak | 0Sharp | 0
Can you come to Tokyo? I wanna fight you. Winner gets a can of Sapporo beer. I'd just like to teach you a little about being a human.
TheGoocHWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
now this is why im glad bisping won to rub it in reasonless haters faces like yours. go buy a punchbag or summet and stop realesing your anger on a forum for gods sake. i only do this when replying to my friend gary.
AccyfistWeak2Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
That's to "MMA AUS can't accept the fact that Britain's BECOME better than you at everything" Rugby, cricket, Mma, boxing, olympics ouch! Zyou guys used to b so good! what happened?
TheGoocHSharp1Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
i know you meen well friend but thats gunna get some harsh replys lol.
AccyfistWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
For real. Luv Aus. Me Best mate's an Aussie but I have to rip up that kind of Aussie. I would do the same to a pom if necessary!
shaolinzombieSharp3Weak | 2Funny | 0Cool | 0
this fight still doesn't say much about Bisping, beating aging mid-level comp doesn't put you in the elite category, and to top it off an illegal strike hangs a dark cloud over this W.
tazWeak2Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
i don't think it does.
AccyfistWeak2Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
Certainly the key to the growth of UK MMA and if you love the sport, you'll appreciate the business side of the sport. But even if what you say is true, he's still like the 4th or 5th hardest guy in the world at middle weight and probably light heavy weight too, so where are you right now?
austinvermillionWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
i think bisping can beat maia okami and chael sonnen i think that he will struggle against marquart and i think all these guys lose to belfort
nah im pulling bisping over marquardt; supposedly thats next for nate after Akiyama... Marquardt chokes and loses most fights he should win hands down; i think bisping will win and tho he's my fav fighter lets get real not one person baring bruce lee could defeat anderson silva right now
austinvermillionSharp2Weak | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
bisping wasnt goin to accept the fight but rivera was runing his mouth and its not bisping falt that the ufc doesnt offer him elite fighters bisping asked for nate marquhet so shut up and people are fliping out about what bisping did after the fight o well i mean looked at some of the soft rivera said i would have said something two
AccyfistFunny1Weak | 1Cool | 0Sharp | 0
Ha! Haaa! There we go!!!! I was waiting for such an idiotic inane comment!
shaolinzombieWeak3Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
Bisping is nowhere near the level of Nate lol
austinvermillionWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
im not saying that and hontestly y is he so highly regrad what has he donr that is so great he lost a couple of big fight ok he knock a demain maia wow that was maia had no stand up he lost to okami he lost sonnen silva thales leites so y is he so good
AccyfistWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
Maybe not, but we'll only know when it happens! I'm honest like that, you're a xxxx! see the difference?
imo he is and theres somthing thats just sprung to mind. every1 says bisping has no power in his hands but after he lands his jab on the same spot most of his opponents seem to cower and fall to the ground and curl up into a ball. nick diaz (who is my fave fighter) also has this ability.
shaolinzombieSharp1Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Im not saying that Nate is the best, but they are clearly not on the same level, he asked for him but thats that a fight he would have gotten either way, now Bisping losing to Hendo, Evans and Wand, all higher level comp than Rivera. shows why the UFC doesn't offer him higher level comp.
ok i thought he beat wand thought he didnt do enough against evans but that fight was at light heavyweight so i think he would lose to nate prol by decison or ko but i think he capable of beating some of these top guys
tazFunny3Weak | 1Cool | 0Sharp | 0
i'm still finding it funny that bisping stopped him after all the sh*t rivera was talking. and now all those videos he made talking sh*t about bisping's striking and and power are finaly funny, cause he lost and not only did he lose he was stopped. hahahaha
mma ausWeak6Sharp | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
no question that jorge is ageing mid level fighter all i am saying is bisping is a complet peace of shit i dont think it was a timing thing i think he saw a chance to weaken a fighter that is of compairable talent and took it low move and again its not the first time that this **** has done it
AccyfistSharp2Weak | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
Have u ever been in a fight??????
TheGoocHFunny2Weak | 1Cool | 0Sharp | 0
i think hes about 15 so typing this crap is like winning a fight for him.
have you ever been in a sanctioned fight?
AccyfistCool1Funny | 0Weak | 0Sharp | 0
No, just a load of street fights. You get no money, worse injuries and there's no ref to save you. It sucks but welcome to East Lancashire.
austinvermillionSharp2Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
agreed couldnt of said it better ahahahahaahahahahaahaha
shaolinzombieFunny1Sharp | 1Weak | 0Cool | 0
for all those hating on my last comment about Bisping not being an elite fighter... read this, http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=6146349
slickrickSharp4Funny | 2Weak | 2Cool | 0
Im not even gonna bother reading it, I have eyes of my own and have watched all his fights. You are penis smoker if you actually think Bisping isnt an elite fighter.
shaolinzombieSharp2Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
ur calling me a "penis smoker", yet you got bispings nuts all in ur mouth... Time to get off the sack bro! Lol
I totally agree with you on this one, this nuthugging bisbing fan has been all over the sight trying to make the idiot from across the pond look good. Bisbing is a b class fighter
hi again:) bisbing is a b class fighter, just except it. He has no chance of holding a belt. As long as the ufc keeps putting "c" class fighters against him, he's gonna look great. I'm not saying that he's a bumm, cause that s clearly not the case, he is a world class athlete, but he just doesn't have the skills to compete against "the big boys"
jesseWeak5Sharp | 4Funny | 0Cool | 0
i cant believe what bisping did after the fight. the ref tried to stop him from going toward jorge and bisping said he wanted to apolagize, and then as soon as he got close to him he called him a loser. complete douche
tazSharp4Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
no, bisping was telling rivera to apolagize for what he said. and then bisping said sorry to him for he said and again in his interview.
TheGoocHWeak2Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
i think if it where me or you who had been humiliated we would want an apoligy dont ya think?
Bruce LeeSharp1Weak | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
I wish I could "sharp" this comment 50 times. What a douche
AccyfistSharp5Funny | 1Weak | 1Cool | 0
All you that said Rivera would KO Bisping andare now about to write Bisping's win off as Rivera being a "can" can bite their tongue right now and eat some humble pie instead. You know who you are so accept it. And if you want to see good sense, check my comment before the fight. Almost exactly what I said would happen happened.
As for the fight. Superb performence. MMA is a sport but this was a fight! Rivera made it a fight and the illegal knee and the mouthful of abuse after were what he asked for. He would've been hospitalised in the 1st round in Japan or Brazil! That was a perfect example of dismantling. Find what you want to criticise my boy now, but he IS a top contender and anyone out therewould take him as a risky and serious challenge. Wanna watch the You Tube Rivera Vids again now???? Ha! F U to the haters! Big handshake to the logical critics or fans! we were right!!!
austinvermillionCool1Funny | 1Weak | 0Sharp | 0
thank god finallysome one who doesnt hate bisping and list these facts about the way bisping won was cheap or cheating tank u
asdfWeak5Funny | 2Sharp | 2Cool | 0
Yes, i think Bisping just moved into the top 20.
AccyfistSharp2Funny | 1Weak | 0Cool | 0
Ok name 19 fighters who are better than Bisping. Rankings are bullshit to an extent but I can only see Silva, Silva again, Marky, Okami, and definitely Sonnen being a challenge for Mike. I'll glady capitulate if you prove me wrong, I'm not a ****head like some, I'm just interested in the truth dowsed with liberal helpings of me-ness!
HunterBSharp1Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Maia, Marquardt, Silva, Okami, Munoz, Jacare, Mousassi, King Mo, Cavalcante, Tim Kennedy, Henderson, W Silva, Rich Franklin, Hector Lombard, Belfort, Chael Sonnen, Alan Belcher, Falcao. There are 19.... would you like me to list more ???
AccyfistWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
These lot are all better than Bisping or even in his weight class? There are some that could give him a good fight but would certainly be the underdog. You haven't proven anything but your lack of knowledge and blindness. You debating with is like a 1 legged midget trying to take on Cain Velasquez. It's not gonna work out well.
HunterBFunny1Sharp | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
wow you are a straight up douche bag, you are like 40 years old and you still talk like a teenager, mid life crisis mean anything to you ??
AccyfistWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
At 32 years old, still fit and get ladies as hot and often as like. No, it means nothing to me, just like 'douche' means nothing to me. So writing with a great combo of knowledge, intelligence, prose, creativity, passion and humour is now childish, just because you happened to be on the receiving end and you didn't like it? You would be called a tosser where I come from. Has a much better ring to it than douche, don't you think?
Hahaha, no one cares for your lies about being fit and getting hot ladies... If you really did you would have to post on here.
"Would have to post on here" Doesn't make any sense. But I really do get serious broads. All types too, white, brown, black, Asian. Why would I need to lie about that. I'm an open book. What you see is what you get? If I was agreeing with what you said you would love me!
austinvermillionWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
your joking right
tazCool2Funny | 0Weak | 0Sharp | 0
i agree. the people who say he isn't a top contender are wrong, he may not have faught any top five contenders but that is not his call and it's not like he has been running away from top contenders he has been asking for them, and i think he deserves a top five MW fight now he has beaten loads of the mid range fighters and it is his time to move up.
HunterBSharp1Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
sticking up for someone who blatantly cheats is just pathetic, get off Bispings nuts, he won but what he did was terrible, and then he has the audacity to start talking shit like he won fair and square.
You are not logical and far from the intelligence to be a critic. He cant beat any ranked fighters, therefore he is not elite. Hopefully he has to start fighting some top 10 competition so he can be sent back down the totem pole.
Bruce LeeSharp2Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Even though I hate him I'll admit he's a top contender. Are you happy? But you can't argue with the fact that he is a classless wanker
bisping cant see when hes being c0cky and really believes he can beat anderson and so on but this doesnt make him a a bad guy. he really doesnt know hes doing it and thats what pisses ppl off.
Nah I can! He's working class!
AccyfistWeak2Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
Yeah man! I mean I am biased as we're from the same town but I challenge nay defy anyone to take apart my argument! Please! I'm waiting.
slickrickSharp1Weak | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
You are 100% correct Accyfist .. Problem is, there is no point trying to persuade a load of pricks that cant see sense.
there is no argument he better than top 20 i think he like 7 0r 6 in the rankings
AccyfistWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
Yeah bruv I was waitin for a bit of support from my boy Slick! Loddi Doddi! We stand proven correct! Why the f??k am I even arguing with these .....people?
slickrickWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
lol @ Loddi Doddi .. good man
agree with both u guys
We likes to party!!!
mma ausWeak3Sharp | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
lets just see how he dose against some one in the top 20 lets not forget about Wand! Hendo!!! and even though i hate to say it Rashard!
tazFunny1Sharp | 1Weak | 0Cool | 0
top 20!, what the hell are you on about. if you are trying to say he isn't even in the top 20 or he hasn't beaten anyone in the top 20 then you are stupid.
AccyfistSharp1Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Ha Haaaa! Laughable!!!! You really don't know anything about the sport or being a human, do you????
TheGoocHSharp1Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
bisping didnt do as well as he could of against those guys due to the fact that he throws his hands down and leans back instead of covering and ducking i mean he gets cliped in every fight because of this. if he had a better gaurd he would be able to stand his ground against these guys with ease. thats why he needs to move training camp badly i think the guys hes with are all under him in competition and his coaches are old fashioned. imagin bispings skills after he was toughend up in shogun's gym.
AccyfistSharp2Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Wow man! Yeah! Spot on! I really see that!
me two
mma ausWeak3Sharp | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
**** both of you name 1 fight that he has showen any balls in even better name 1 fighter that he has beaten in the top 20
TheGoocHWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
liben, akayama, kang err.. 2 mins there might be more ill have to look em up.
dan miller
lmao is this man serious? do you have any idead who is in the top 20? sounds to me like you dont.
Haaa! Ha! You're still on the top 20 thing? OK I'll give in to you and Anderson Silva never beat a top 10 opponent and oxygen is in fact titanium, the Earth is indeed flat and gay people technically speaking prefer vaginas!!!!
TheRealDealSharp1Weak | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
Nothing you say "matters" there, "Slick Rick"......
99.9% of MMA fans HATE Bisping and see right through him, whether you are in love with him or not. There is no denying his immaturity and arrogance and fans hate that. He's a prick.
He's a "good" fighter, yes, that we agree on, other than that he is a horrible role model and a complete douchebag, there's no secret there. Just look at all the immature crap he has pulled, I mean c'mon, see the tool for what he is, a tool.
Oh right! That's what MMA's all about now, "personality". It's like you're a poofter admiring a row of your favourite wrist benders. Let's for example call Winston Churchill a "douche" because he was bad mannered especially to women. Forget the fact that he was the only European leader to stand up to the Nazis. Not a comparison, but an eg. of madness!
"Cage Rage" you great big spastic! Why don't you just add up all my comments, internalise them and make them your own opinions because you're absolutely hopeless with your own ideas. BOO YA!!!!!
kalmanderSharp3Funny | 1Weak | 0Cool | 0
first time im glad bisping won
wartaal677Sharp1Weak | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
damn bisping is really a wanker, ****ed up knee in the face and afterwards being a wanker as usual
austinvermillionWeak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
dude the knee was mistake of timming cant u see that i mean all the soft jorge said and bisping says a couple of things after the fight and he the devil its bull shit all u guys hate on bisping and contune two denine him of being a good fight the reason he won was because jorge was tired and bisping took adavantge and clippped him with a straight right hand and then went for trhe kill so **** all u bisping haters the only way bisping will ever get your respect is by beting anderson silva and u huys would still come up with something to try to write off the win just like u do ever time so **** off all u bisping haters
chavez 91Sharp1Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
i dint get to see the fight was it good
Bruce LeeSharp1Weak | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
It is easy to make a mistake like the knee in the heat of battle but it is easier for people with less ethics. After the fight was over Rivera tried to reach out to Bisping and Bisping starts yelling at an injured and downed fighter. Unfortunately he is getting better and better. I say unfortunately for two reasons: 1) he has no class. 2) as he gets better there is less chance he will get Hendo'd again.
Before someone declares me a hater let me state clearly...I'm a hater.
TheRealDealWeak2Sharp | 1Funny | 0Cool | 0
I see your point but the fact is, intentional or not, the knee is ILLEGAL, and 100% of the time should result in a disqualification, that is the only truely fair way to handle it, whether it makes for a crappy fight or not. They could alwyas rematch later, which is what should have happened. We have no idea if it affected Rivera's performance afterwards or not, and we will never know for sure.
why do i get the feeling that you sharp all of your own comments.
i would of said the same thing to rivera y should bisping have respect for him rivera doenst have any for him
japanegro23Weak1Funny | 0Sharp | 0Cool | 0
Oh the knee definitely affected him. Bisping did it on purpose and now he gets another tainted win in my opinion. It was a lose lose situation for Jorge after the illegal knee. And what was up with the crowd booing when it took him awhile to get up and cheering when Bisping was raising his hands after the knee?
Of course he did it on purpose. One doesn't accidentally thrust one's knee into any kind of asshole's face, does one? The question is, did he intend to break the rules? Of course not! Why risk losing the fight when you're obviously dominating? Certainly, he needs to b more careful following the rules but If he really wanted to cheat all the time, why wouldn't he just bite Rivera's nose off? You seem very un-level-headed for a Japanese Negro.
japanegro23Sharp1Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Because when you bite off someone's nose, it's hard to use the it was an accident excuse.
xdecemberguyCool1Funny | 0Weak | 0Sharp | 0
Man Michael Bisping Sucks. Every fight he has he has thrown an illegal shot. That's the only way he can win. UFC please give him what he wants. Some one in the top 10 who will stomp his ass and shut him the **** up. I can't stand this guy.
bullshit man the knee was mistake bisping isnt a dirty fighter end of story
**** listening to Bisping now, we've all seen those mistimed knees that JUST catch the guy, as he has one knee on the ground or maybe even just a hand as the third point. Jorge had one and and both knees on the ground, that's what we'd call FIVE POINTS, seriously the most blatent knee to a down opponent since Wes Simms on Frank Mir
xdecemberguySharp2Funny | 0Weak | 0Cool | 0
Joe Rogan 100% ILLEGAL. And all you ass saying Bisping would have won regardless. WOW. ...WOW. Its 2 1/2 mins in the first and the fight is considered over in your eyes. You people obviously don't watch much MMA fights.
O and for you asses who say it was an accident. Looking at the replay he's about to hit him again until the ref stops him. Accident my ass.
And he throws the knee and instead of an "Oh ****!" and check to see if he was OK, Bisping shoved his head back. What a ****
mmabloodbath.com 3:35 mark. Hits him and goes back for more.


text:
Massimo's in Malden: Saucy and Swingin'
Well, we've decided to go to Massimo's on Sunday night with our Melrosian chum. Any must-orders? I know it's kind of a Brady Bunch rec room 1950's-ish place, which is fine by me, but I want to order wisely. *jives next to faux wood*
IMO it's worth it to pay the $3 or so upcharge to get the homemade pasta (we had the fusili, I think they offer a couple other types too). It's been a few months since my last visitI but the service is old-school, they are super nice, especially to any kids you have with you.
ETA if you can't find parking on Pleasant Street (which you can't, since there's construction going on ) you can park in the Florence Street lot. It's directly behind Massimo's and the restaurant validates for that lot.


text: Strange Obsessions Clowning Around A couple gives new meaning to clowning around. Info Check your local listings. Strange Obsessions: Clowning Around A couple gives new meaning to clowning around. Share Share this URL: Or you can use the code below to embed the video. The code updates if you change the width/height. Minimum dimensions are 320x211 pixels. <iframe width="640" height="391" src="http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/taboo/videos/clowning-around/embed/" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen></iframe> Width: px Height: px 1 comments   Get Livefyre FAQ Sign in + Follow Post comment Link Newest | Oldest Cyndi Contreras 5pts Cool


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