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Keeping Education Accessible, Attainable With Financial Aid
A new study argues financial aid changes are needed to help struggling students complete their degrees.
Recently, we discussed MDRC's Performance-Based Scholarship Demonstration and whether scholarships alone can help students succeed in college. A big takeaway was that financial aid policies must address students' myriad struggles, which extend beyond financial need.
But any policies that address financial need must also consider these struggles, such as balancing job, family, and school responsibilities. That is, they are not mutually exclusive, and while additional services and support are needed, policies also need to be refocused to help combat these obstacles.
The "American Dream 2.0," a recent report from a coalition of advocates and experts, analyzes how the financial aid system can be revamped to support three pillars that are vital to students' success: access, affordability, and completion.
[Learn more about paying for college.]
The report first discusses the pervasiveness of financial aid in higher education. Funds in the $226 billion system go to almost half of all undergraduates and nearly every postsecondary institution. Students and schools rely on financial aid to survive and succeed.
Considering the extent of that power, the report sets a golden rule: First, do no harm. Students who leave school with debt and no degree are likely worse off than when they began, so the financial aid system has a responsibility to make sure these students graduate.
The study also recognizes that receiving financial aid can affect students' abilities to succeed, making it more feasible to enroll full time and to stay enrolled continuously through graduation.
With both those considerations in mind, the study's authors identify some key changes needed in the financial aid system.
First is the need to make financial aid "simpler and more transparent." This could help increase both initial and continuous enrollment, as many prospective students who could receive aid don't apply. The report emphasizes the need to streamline programs—without reducing levels of investment, of course—and reduce the burden of paperwork. The initial step of filling out the Free Application for Federal Student Aid can be overwhelming for some students.
Another priority is to "give families more and better information." The report's authors emphasize the need to collect and publish information on students' progression and completion, how much they pay and borrow, their ability to repay loans, job placement, and earnings.
They also advocate the creation of tables with federal grant and loan estimates to help families understand their prospects and obligations. That's pretty basic, and the Student Loan Ranger thinks it's kind of embarrassing those don't already exist! What does exist, fortunately, is the Department of Education's new College Scorecard, where parents and students can see how much a school costs, its graduation rates, students' debt, and other financial information.
[Know how to get a great financial aid package.]
Second, the report identifies the need for innovations that can lower costs, but also meet the needs of today's students. These include: revising remedial education; allowing students competency-based credits, such as for skills learned at work, rather than based on classroom hours; and using technological advancements.
All of these help support affordability by lowering the cost of education not just to students, but also to schools, such as by reducing the costs of producing a class. They also allow students to progress at their own paces, opening the doors for students who may not otherwise be able to ante up the time or money for a degree, "expand[ing] the pool of who can go to college and get a credential."
[Understand upcoming changes to financial aid.]
Finally, the report charges the shared responsibility for raising graduation rates to institutions, states, and students. The report's authors suggest increasing enrollment and completion by encouraging schools to support students and to encourage and reward low-income students for their progress.
States and organizations can do so in a variety of ways, including by linking aid to outcomes, such as academic milestones, and by setting expectations for earning additional aid or maintaining eligibility. Other steps could include rewarding colleges and students that exceed expectations by focusing on completion, student persistence and momentum, and for demonstrating success with disadvantaged students.
The heart of any solution must be the commitment to "protect access to opportunities for the neediest students," not penalizing students who work hard but may not complete, and ensuring low-income students aren't locked out. The takeaway is that the system must support access, affordability, and completion because, as the report notes, college attainment is "this generation's economic and civil rights issue"—a new prerequisite for the American Dream 2.0.
Radhika Singh Miller is a program manager for Educational Debt Relief and Outreach at Equal Justice Works. In 2008, she served on the Student Loans Team in the Negotiated Rulemaking for the College Cost Reduction and Access Act (CCRAA) and has extensive knowledge of this landmark legislation. She conducts educational webinars and presentations; advises schools and organizations; and advocates for legislation and policy. Prior to joining Equal Justice Works, Miller was a staff attorney at the Partnership for Civil Justice in Washington. She received her J.D. from Loyola Law School Los Angeles.


text:
A new Wisconsin Historical Society website is coming mid-May 2014!
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A former slave recounts his time in Wisconsin
Hale and Hearty at 119: Missouri, St. Louis. Ex-slave stories, Charles Gabriel Anderson.
Between 1936 and 1938, the WPA Federal Writers' Project (FWP) sent unemployed writers in 17 states to interview ordinary people for a collection of life histories. Initially, only four states (Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Virginia) were involved in collecting the stories of former slaves, but John Lomax, the National Advisor on Folklore and Folkways for the FWP, soon directed writers in the remaining states to carry out interviews with ex-slaves as well. Federal writers were given instructions on what kinds of questions to ask and how to capture their dialects, though white representations of black speech had a long and ugly history of entrenched stereotyping. This narrative, from Charles Gabriel Anderson of St. Louis, Missouri, recounts his time in Wisconsin, where he came after being wounded in the war. Anderson then became a barber, first in Madison and then in Dodgeville, before moving on to Iowa and eventually Missouri. His narrative runs from page 20 through 24 in this collection.
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Wisconsin in the Civil War Era
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The Civil War Home Front
Federal Writers' Project
Pub Data:
Federal Writers' Project, 1936-1938. American Memory Project.
"Hale and Hearty at 119." Federal Writers' Project, 1936-1938; Online facsimile at: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mesn&fileName=100/mes
n100.db&recNum=24; Visited on: 4/24/2014
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The Focus on Photography Student Book includes:
Table of Contents
Chapter 1: What Is Photography?
Chapter 2: The Art of Photography
Chapter 3: Black and White
Chapter 4: Digital Photography
Chapter 5: Portraits
Chapter 6: Action Photography
Chapter 7: Photojournalism
Chapter 8: Architecture and Urban Landscapes
Chapter 9: Landscapes
Chapter 10: Animals
Chapter 11: Still Life
For news, insights, and musings on the art and craft of photography, check out Hermon Joyner and Kathleen Monaghan's, Focus on Photography blog.
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Home > Grips > Head > Head Pretige Pro 10 + Tennis Overgrip (Item #288100)
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my ecdysis
Posts Tagged medical ethics
When We Thought Men Could Have Abortions and Other Problems with Outdated Biology
Posted by Lisa in Uncategorized on February 10, 2012
TweetOne of the reasons that masturbation was seen as uh, problematic, in the Catholic Church is based in outdated biology.
Back in the good ol' days where the medical world thought women were simply incubators for fetuses, it was a widely understood truth that men carried the life. Men were seen as the carriers of the human embryo and women were simply airports and incubators for deposit and growth.
Because the fertilization process was not understood, masturbation was seen as the equivalent to having an abortion, thus the strong teachings against it. Once the sperm left the shaft, it was seen as human life hitting the ground. Or temple floor. Or pillow. And it died. LIFE died with masturbation.
Even though it's 2012 and our medical advancements have clearly surpassed the black and white facts of the birds and the bees, including the joining of the egg and sperm, not all of religious teaching and legislation reflect these medical breakthroughs. Now that we know that there is such a thing called fertilization, and women are much more than just warm containers for zygotes, it would behoove our society to think before we put addendums and amendments which date us back to the time where men's sperm was seen as the mailman for new life.
And, hey, I'm not advocating for your teenage son to masturbate without delay or conscience. Nor am I saying that sperm isn't important, but let's reserve the word "sacred" for the actuality and fullness of life, not just body fluids. To reject common biology and reducing/twisting the definition of humanity to just men's sperm or just women's eggs leads us down paths that often result in feverish gender essentialism and dangerous mentalities regarding reproductive health. Or, simply put: misinformed or uneducated opinion regarding health and sexuality that makes its way into law harms reduces, oppresses, and harms women.
We can do better than this.


text:
Qt Commercial 4.6.4 Rolls Out
The newest Qt Commercial release delivers improved stability, enhancements for desktop and embedded users, support for Windows 7, and 122 bug fixes.
Digia's latest Qt Commercial release works on previously supported platforms and now officially supports Windows 7. "The focus area of this release is the desktop platforms. We are introducing many fixes specifically aimed for the Mac, Windows, and Linux/X11 platforms – in addition to fixes that benefit all platforms," the announcement says.
Digia is contributing the Qt Commercial 4.6.4 release to Nokia, but the decision to make it available to open source users will be up to Nokia.
The new Qt Commercial release is available at http://qt.digia.com/customerportal/.
Issue 163/2014
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Digital Issue: Price $9.99
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Tag Cloud
KDE Announces Software Compilation 4.13
New release comes with better semantic search and improvements to Kontact.
Coverity: Open Source Code has Fewer Defects
Annual code quality report shows FOSS is more secure at all project size levels.
An Even Smaller Raspberry Pi
The Raspberry Pi Foundation has announced an even smaller version of the tiny computer that will fit into a DIMM slot.
Freaky Privilege Escalation Attack
A new class of problems lets a malicious app pre-configure an invisible privilege update.
Facebook Rolls Out New PHP-like Programming Language
New Hack language adds static typing and other conveniences.
Fedora Announces Innovative Crytography Policy System
New crypto policy system will offer easier configuration and more uniform security.
Shuttleworth Calls for Declarative Firmware
Ubuntu founder denounces insecurity in proprietary, close-source software blobs.
New TLS Attack Takes the S out of HTTPS
Vulnerability affects many Linux web servers
Munich Adopts Kolab
The Bavarian capital shuns Microsoft, Google, and other alternatives to implement an open source groupware solution.
Canonical Announces Ubuntu Smartphones
Phone vendor partnerships bring Mark Shuttleworth's dream of Ubuntu on a phone a step closer to reality.


text:
Nice updated picture you have of me.
But you should know, the first rule of keeping all of your fingers is
No beer on the jobsite.
I worked one very hot Summer near Lake Union on a four story condo complex. The framers were drinking beer all day, because it was so hot.
The plumbers showed up at 6:00, and got off at 2:30 to beat the heat.
We were drinking water.
One day the head framer fell two stories into the elevator pit.
He was pretty messed up, but came back a few days later with casts on his leg and an arm.
Beer is never touched while working with tools, that's the first safety rule.
As I got older, I started seeing that protecting the eyes was important.
I got scolded pretty bad by an eye doctor. You have those things for life, so you might as well take care of them.
Gloves for sure, unless it's Friday and near quitting time.
Then the last thing you do at the end of the day, is start gluing ABS without gloves.
Then you can show off your glued up hands all weekend long just to let people know what a slob you are. It's pretty cool to be picking off black ABS glue from your hands in church. You feel like a real Homer Simpson.
Learn to lift correctly, and when to drop things to save your back.
You can buy new water heaters, they're are cheaper then doctor bills and loss of work.
Learn to ask for help sometimes, even if one person can barely lift it.
And when you lift with two people, it's not a competition. Lift evenly and let the other guy know what you are doing. Communicate.
Don't run down mountain passes with 50 pounds on your back and crummy hiking boots. At least buy the best boots. Having an ankle cast for six weeks and missing work kind of sucks.
It also makes it kind of hard to play defensive back when you pull the cast off. I swear, it takes weeks to get all of the range back in your ankle.
Don't dive back to first base head first, at least not after pulling on two foot pipe wrenches all week overhead on fire protections systems. Let your ligaments resettle back in before testing them to the max.
When you fall on concrete,
don't put your arm out like somehow it's going to stop 200 pounds without breaking the wrist. At least if you do, you have plenty of time to practice your left handed layin's while you are missing work.
Somebody said
Ear protection!
And I said
Yeah, and water, no alcohol.


text:
The group met with the president in the Oval Office before huddling together in the chill outside to watch his helicopter lift off. Obama was headed to New York to tour storm damage.
The gymnasts missed a White House appearance with the rest of the U.S. Olympic team earlier this year because of their national tour schedule.
The Fierce Five—Gabby Douglas, McKayla Maroney, Kyla Ross, Aly Raisman, and Jordyn Wieber—claimed the gold at this summer's London Games. They signed leotards to give to the president's daughters, Sasha and Malia, during the visit.
CORRECTS ID AT LEFT TO JORDYN WIEBER, NOT ALY RAISMAN - Members of the 2012 Women's Olympic Gymnastics team, Jordyn Wieber, left, and, Kyla Ross, right, react to the wind gust caused by the Marine One helicopter, with President Barack Obama aboard, as they watch the departure from the South Lawn of the White House in Washington, Thursday, Nov. 15, 2012. Obama had meet with the team earlier in private meeting in the Oval Office. ((AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais))


text: |This sports bra from Nike provides support and lightweight, and barely there comfort. Dri-FIT® technology wicks sweat away from the body and moves it to the fabric surface, where it evaporates. As a result, you stay dry and comfortable. Cup construction uses two-layers of fabric to deliver a compressive fit that offers light support. Elastic chest band adds a comfortable fit with long-lasting shape retention. Elastic straps allow you to adjust and personalize the fit. Minimal coverage gives ultra-lightweight support. 88% nylon/12% spandex. Imported.


text:
Connect to your Future, for the Deaf, Part 1 Connect to your Future, for the Deaf, Part 2 A Day in the Life of Deaf Culture, Part 1 A Day in the Life of Deaf Culture, Part 2 A Day in the Life of Relay
What's New
What's New in Technology
Follow Us on Facebook. DSDHH is one of three Divisions within the Department of Health and Human Services piloting the use of social media. We plan to use our page to post videos in ASL, share information about our services and programs, share information about local deaf and hard of hearing related events, share information and resources related to laws (ADA, NC interpreting law, etc.), emergency preparedness, technology, etc. and generally keep you informed! You can now follow us on Facebook at "NC DHHS Division of Services for the Deaf & the Hard of Hearing." Please visit us any time!
What We Do
Advocacy, information, counseling, skills development and tools for Deaf, Hard of Hearing, Deaf-Blind and Speech-Impaired individuals and their families.
Consultation and training for agencies, organizations and businesses such as law enforcement, hospitals, 911 calls centers, churches and hotels – so that people with hearing loss may experience full access.
Telecommunications access for all through relay services and assistive technology.


text:
A cold front that moved through the state will allow cooler but drier air into central North Carolina today. Another cold front will approach the state on Friday.
Today will be sunny with a high around 70. Our normal high this time of year is 74. Cooler breezes will be out of the northwest from 10 to 15 miles per hour this afternoon.
Tonight winds will diminish, but so will the temperature. With clear skies, lows overnight will drop to around 40.
Check out Futurecast and see exactly what North Carolina weather will be like in the next 24 hours
The dry and pleasant weather continues Thursday with sunny skies expected and highs in the lower 70s.
Another cold front will approach on Friday and a few showers or storms are possible out ahead of the front. Highs on Friday will be in the upper 70s.
That front will weaken as it moves east across North Carolina Friday night. As a matter of fact the air behind the front is mild from the Pacific in origin, instead of from Canada. So on Saturday, with mostly sunny skies, highs will reach into the lower 80s.
Another front will try to drop down from the north on Sunday, but it now looks like it will stall near Virginia, so with partly sunny skies we should make it into the upper 70s.
That front will retreat even more to the north on Monday, so highs will be back into the upper 70s to near 80 with partly sunny skies. There will be a slight risk of a late day shower on Monday.
By Tuesday another cold front will approach from the west and clouds will increase as well as our chances of showers with a possible storm. Highs on Tuesday should be in the upper 70s, with much cooler air moving in behind the front on Wednesday.
Be sure to download our WNCN Weather app - the best in town. You can see some of its features below, where you can easily see the radar and the hour by hour forecast.
Meteorologist Bill Reh delivers your weekday forecast on WNCN Today starting at 4:30 a.m.! He has been forecasting weather in central North Carolina since 1983 and understands local weather like few others. More>>
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» by Hip-Hop Wired February 23, 2014, 9:37am
My Uncle Aaron just got an awesome 12 month
old Audi A5 Convertible only from working part time off a home computer... find
out here FiscalMaze.ℂom
Hip-Hop Wired delivers daily hip-hop music news, videos and streaming tracks from your favorite rap artists,
plus the latest political and fashion news—including the hottest sneakers to hit the street.
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text: So there've been many incarnations of the Hellfire Club and it's always seemed to play an important role in the X-Verse, but with this new incarnation I'm not sure. After reading W&XM it seems pretty much like they're a kiddie-club hell bent on causing trouble. They've obviously got the ressources part down, but any thoughts on whether or not those kids will actually live up to the name? Frankly I think that except for Kade Kilgore they don't even seem to be that much into it, it's like they're a bunch of bored kids who just want to cause trouble (begs the question when Quire joins in). Basically I think they're a fun antagonist for the school as in fighting other kids, but not the X-Men as a whole.


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Patrick van Aanholt and Gael Kakuta have today (Wednesday) returned to Vitesse Arnhem on season-long loans, with Thorgan Hazard heading back to Zulte Waregem in his native Belgium.
Van Aanholt and Kakuta, both 22, have spent pre-season training with the Eredivise club, who finished fourth last season.
Having initially spent the second half of the 2011/12 season on loan at Vitesse, it was decided Van Aanholt would remain there throughout the 2012/13 campaign.
His second season with the club was another productive one, with the left-back establishing himself as a regular in the side, starting all but three league matches.
Kakuta also spent last season on loan at Vitesse, where he made 22 appearances and played a crucial role in helping the club secure Europa League qualification.
Hazard, meanwhile, will spend the 2013/14 campaign back on loan at Zulte Waregem after a string of memorable performances during his initial spell with the club last season.
The 20-year-old was an instrumental figure as his side battled for the title, narrowly losing out to Anderlecht on the final day, impressing to such an extent he earned a first senior international call-up.
In May, Hazard made his debut for Belgium in a 4-2 friendly win over USA, replacing Chelsea team-mate Romelu Lukaku during the second-half.
All three deals will run until 30 June.
You can keep updated with the trio's progress on this website.


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Sounds Like: Lil Wayne, Drake, Wiz Khalifa, Pitbull, Jay-Z
Bio: Cuban-American artist born in Miami, FL. to cuban imagrant parents, moved to Philadelphia, PA. in his teens. English and spanish speaking.With his originality in delivery and themes this latino artist provides you with a thrilling ride every second.Inspired by true life events,Santo El Condenao ... See Full BioMore Info
Be the first to ask Best Latin Rapper Alive!!!'Santo EL Condenao' a question!
Song Plays 3,354 +1
Video Plays 1,040
Total Fans 1,016
ReverbNation Fans 294 -1
Facebook Likes 123
Twitter Followers 514 +1
YouTube Subscribers 85
Widget Impressions 151


text:
Job Title
|Actor, Director, Producer, Music
|March 21, 1962
- How Bono Helped Liam Neeson's Sons After … Yahoo Celebrity - Mon, Feb 24, 2014 6:23 PM EST
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The son of stage and screen actor James Broderick and playwright and artist Patricia Broderick, Matthew Broderick was born in New York City, NY on March 21, 1962. He grew up downtown in Greenwich Village where he attended liberal, arts-oriented private schools and hung out with his father backstage at theaters and movie sets. Broderick loved the atmosphere of the theater from an early age, but the shy kid could not imagine mustering up the nerve to perform, so he thought one day he might have a career as a set designer or a stage manager. But during his teen years at the Walden School, he still ached to be an actor; enough that that desire eventually overcame his fright. Jumping into his new passion, he took a starring role in a school production written by Kenneth Lonergan, the future Oscar-nominated screenwriter, but at that time, his then 15-year-old best friend. Broderick's father believed in his son's talent, and starred opposite him in Horton Foote's "On Valentine's Day" Off-Broadway. The teen graduated from high school and began taking acting classes with famed coach Uta Hagen, and in a very short period of time, was making a name for himself on the New York theater scene.
In 1981, Broderick won acclaim for his portrayal of David, the adopted gay son of drag queen Arnold Beckoff (Harvey Fierstein) in the Off-Broadway production of "Torch Song Trilogy." Sadly, after only a few early preview performances in his first big show, Broderick's father and acting inspiration died from cancer. The devastated son soldiered on and a glowing review of his performance in The New York Times brought him wider attention and a starring role on Broadway in Neil Simon's semi-autobiographical "Brighton Beach Memoirs." For over a year, Broderick portrayed Eugene Jerome - a Brooklyn teenager and aspiring author - in this Depression-era coming of age tale, winning a Tony Award and Theater World Award for his endearing performance.
Not surprisingly, Hollywood came calling. Broderick was flown to L.A. to film his first feature, the forgettable "Max Dugan Returns" (1982). His follow-up, however, the thriller "War Games" (1983), proved to be a huge summer smash that earned Broderick a following for his portrayal of a teen computer hacker who breaks into a military computer system and unwittingly begins a dangerous face-off between U.S. and Russian nuclear defense systems - a film timely in its premise, in that it was prior to the end of the Cold War.
Following his first big screen success, Broderick returned to Broadway where he reprised the role of Eugene Jerome in "Biloxi Blues," which found Neil Simon's character joining the Army during World War II. He was tapped to reprise his first stage role in the 1986 film version of "On Valentine's Day" (broadcast on PBS as "Story of a Marriage, Part 2") and also appeared Off-Broadway in "The Widow Claire." In one of the most memorable roles of his film career, the 23-year-old actor went on to charm audiences as a resourceful high school student who orchestrates a highly complex day of hooky in John Hughes comedy classic "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" (1986). Audiences loved the baby-faced actor as the clever school rebel they all wished they could be, but despite the impact of the film, Broderick rarely returned again to that type of "cool" character.
In the midst of all his newfound fame, Broderick's happiness was shattered after a painful incident occurred which changed his life overnight. In August 1987, the actor and his fiancée, actress Jennifer Grey - who had played his sister in Ferris Bueller's Day Off -- were vacationing in Northern Ireland when Broderick caused a fatal collision that killed 63-year-old Margaret Doherty and her 30-year-old daughter, Anna Gallagher. Broderick was driving a rented BMW when he swerved into oncoming-traffic lane. Anna Gallagher, who was driving the other car, and her mother, were killed instantly. Broderick suffered a broken leg, concussion and collapsed lung. Jennifer Grey escaped with minor injuries. Initially charged with reckless driving, Broderick later plead guilty to a lesser charge of careless driving and was fined the equivalent of $175 in U.S. dollars. Not surprisingly, the victims' family considered the light sentence a miscarriage of justice. Stunned by what he had caused, Broderick would move on in life, but never forget that part of his life.
In 1988, Broderick appeared opposite Harvey Fierstein in the film version of "Torch Song Trilogy" (1988); this time not as his character's son, but as his lover. The same year he helped make a Mike Nichols screen adaptation of "Biloxi Blues" a hit, finally bringing Simon's beloved stage character to film audiences. From that light comedy, he delivered a strong dramatic performance as the young commander of the first Black Union regiment in the acclaimed Civil War drama, "Glory" (1989).
With his clean-cut looks and bookish demeanor, Broderick was well-cast to play the unwitting son of a crime family in Sidney Lumet's drama "Family Business" (1989), but despite a dream cast including Dustin Hoffman and Sean Connery, it proved to be a critical and commercial miss. Broderick fared slightly better as a naïve Vermont transplant to New York University in "The Freshman" (1990), which also starred Marlon Brando as a con man who disrupts the hapless student's life. Sporting a beard, the baby-faced actor joined an ensemble of bright young talents for the forgettable romantic comedy "The Night We Never Met" (1993), but went on to score huge success as the voice of the adult Simba in Disney's animated blockbuster "The Lion King" (1994). The period drama "The Road to Wellville" (1994) failed to score with audiences or critics, but Broderick was redeemed by his association with another vintage offering based on the career of writer Dorothy Parker, "Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle" (1994), which was nominated for the Palm d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival.
After too many years away from the medium he loved, Broderick returned to the stage in the acclaimed 1995 Broadway revival of "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying." In the original production, Robert Morse interpreted what would become his signature role as an outwardly simple soul who lucks into good fortune. In contrast, Broderick made his character a bit more knowing and openly ambitious, and that characterization - combined with his vocal mettle - earned the actor a Tony Award for Best Leading Actor in a Musical. Broderick took a leave from the show to film "The Cable Guy" (1996), where he played a hapless customer whose life becomes a nightmare after he becomes the object of obsession of Jim Carrey's title character in Ben Stiller's black comedy. When he returned to "How to Succeed" in early 1996, he was teamed with his future wife Sarah Jessica Parker in the female lead. Switching gears, Broderick made his film directing debut in "Infinity" (1996) a biopic of Nobel laureate Richard Feynman (whom he also played) in a script authored by Broderick's mother. The following year Broderick and Sarah Jessica Parker were married in a small ceremony in New York.
In a rare big budget actioner, Broderick was tapped to play a scientist in 1998's "Godzilla." That same year, he rejoined the cast of an earlier blockbuster hit in the direct-to-video sequel "The Lion King 2: Simba's Pride" (1998). He finished out a run of high profile, big budget offerings with a starring role in the family film "Inspector Gadget" (1999), where he played the tool-laden detective from the classic animated series to the tune of over $100 million dollars at the box office. But for Broderick fans, the actor was at his big screen best in the indie comedy "Election" (1999), where he played a high school teacher in a mid-life lull who is intent on stopping a perky, overachieving honor student (Reese Witherspoon) before she takes over as class president and surely g s on to enjoy a level of success that he was never able to attain. He again mined the depths of the middle-class, middle-American man trapped by his middle-of-the-road life choices in "You Can Count on Me" (2000), childhood pal Kenneth Lonergan's brilliant and Oscar-nominated study of small town siblings on wildly different paths. On the New York stage, he appeared in the National Actors Theatre revival of "Night Must Fall" in 1999 and in Elaine May's comic misfire "Taller than a Dwarf" in 2000.
In 2001, Broderick was back on Broadway in a Tony-nominated turn as Leo Bloom, Nathan Lane's sidekick in the 2001 musical adaptation of Mel Brooks' "The Producers" (1968). The production was a sensation and Broderick and Lane's electric pairing was credited with a widespread renewed interest in Broadway musicals. Broderick took a break from the show to shoot an ABC television version of the perennial favorite "The Music Man" (2003) and a Frank Oz-helmed remake of the cult classic "The Stepford Wives" (2004). This satirical-minded take of Stepford cast the actor alongside Nicole Kidman as an upwardly mobile couple whose lives are suddenly overwhelmed by their all-too-perfect community. He returned to Broadway to complete his run of "The Producers" and reprised his voice role in the direct-to-video sequel "The Lion King 1/2" (2004). After a 10-week engagement off-Broadway in Larry Shue's comedy "Foreigner," Broderick re-teamed with Nathan Lane for a big screen adaptation of "The Producers" (2005). The film was a moderate hit at the box office though critics were split, as well as confused about whether to judge it based on the original film or the recent Broadway production.
Lane and Broderick were back on stage the next year, reigniting Broadway in a revival of Neil Simon's "The Odd Couple" where Broderick essayed the role of fussy Felix Unger. In 2006, Broderick co-starred opposite Danny DeVito as warring neighbors in the Christmas comedy "Deck the Halls" (2006) and the following year he voiced the sidekick of Jerry Seinfeld's lead in his animated "Bee Movie" (2007), a box office success despite backlash over its aggressive marketing. Broderick again played midlife crisis with aplomb in Helen Hunt's directorial debut "Then She Found Me" (2008) and went on to enjoy a heavy year of film releases including Peter Tolan's comedy "Finding Amanda," where he played a floundering TV producer who sets off to rescue his niece (Brittany Snow) from a life of sin in Las Vegas, as well as "Diminished Capacity" and the slated Kenneth Lonergan drama "Margaret."


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Mailboxes can stay put
Date: June 8, 2009
by: Kurt Schultheis | City Editor
Florida Department of Transportation officials said they are planning to remove 41 new mailboxes this week that they just installed Friday, May 29 on Longboat Key.
"The decision was made based on the community's concerns and inquiries," said Darren Alfonso, public information officer for the state's Gulf of Mexico Drive repaving project.
Town Manager Bruce St. Denis and Public Works Director Juan Florensa also made inquiries to the department of transportation, asking for leniency.
On Friday, May 29, a state-hired contractor placed 41 new mailboxes at residences along Gulf of Mexico
Drive, because the existing ones were deemed either unsafe or non-compliant with regard to setback requirements for placement on a state highway.
Alfonso said certified letters were mailed to the affected homeowners Friday, June 5 and most letters were received Saturday, June 6. He said FDOT has waited to remove the mailboxes, because it wants to give homeowners time to decide whether or not they want to keep the new mailboxes.
Former Longboat Key Mayor Jeremy Whatmough, who urged town officials to look into the matter at a Town Commission regular meeting Monday, June 1, was happy to hear the news.
"The department of transportation did the right thing," Whatmough said.
Contact Kurt Schultheis at email@example.com.
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23 Nia with Gail on Longboat Key
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26 St. Armands Fine Art Festival
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A Cinderella story
A 10-week-old miniature pinscher puppy found a "happily ever after ending" at the Celebration of Pets April 12, at the Sarasota County Fairgrounds.
Pharmacy brings dose of medicine to Publix
The in-store pharmacy of Longboat Key Publix opened Monday, approximately 16 months after the completion of the new store at 525 Bay Isles Parkway, in the Shoppes of Bay Isles.
Golfer scores victory with less than a stroke
The Longboat Key Masters Golf Tournament, which took place March 28 through March 31, at the Resort at Longboat Key Club's Islandside and Harbourside golf courses came down to less than one stroke's difference between first-place winner Kevin Preston and second-place winner Michael Russell, of Longboat Key.


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FEDERAL DAM - Cass County Board Tuesday approved preliminary work on a continuity of operations plan for the county.
Cass County Emergency Services Director Kerry Swenson told the board he expects to complete the plan by Jan. 1, 2014.
WALKER - Cass County will offer 18 non-conservation land parcels for sale at a 9 a.m. June 29 auction at the courthouse in Walker.
One commercial city lot in Pine River will see the appraised price lowered from $8,500 to $6,000.
WALKER - Cass County Board voted Tuesday to seek state mediation and to hire Tom Fitzpatrick as legal counsel to represent the county in the mediation.
WALKER - Nineteen people applied for the veterans service officer and assistant veterans service officer positions Cass County advertised.
WALKER - Two-thirds of Cass County's employee retirement program is under the direction of Congress and the Minnesota Legislature. The county controls only a retirement insurance program available to some employees.
The county employs about 260 people.
BACKUS - Post Commander Col. Scott St. Sauver presented his annual report Tuesday to the Cass County Board on activities planned for this year at Camp Ripley.
BACKUS - Auditor-Treasurer Sharon Anderson and Commissioners Bob Kangas and Neal Gaalswyk will form a committee to develop a proposal for Cass County Board to consider as a plan to clean County Ditch 9.
BACKUS - A delegation of veterans appeared before the Cass County Board Tuesday for a second time this month and vowed to return to each board meeting until the county again has a fully qualified veterans service officer.
BACKUS - Environmental Services Director (ESD) John Ringle reported permits for new construction are down about 50 percent the first three months this year, compared with 2012.
HACKENSACK - Hackensack Area First Response will conduct a reunion of team members and other area emergency services personnel they worked with through the last 35 years April 27, followed by an open house for the public at Hackensack Fire Hall.
Brainerd Dispatch ©2014. All Rights Reserved.


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Today in country music history:
2003 - Garth Brooks took the top spot on the CMT special 40 Greatest Drinking Songs with "Friends in Low Places."
1999 - SHeDAISY earned their first gold album for The Whole SHeBANG.
1998 - Jason Aldean moved from Georgia to Nashville.
1980 - Waylon Jennings took "Theme from The Dukes of Hazzard (Good Ol' Boys)" to number one.
1947 - Eddy Arnold scored a number one hit with "I'll Hold You in My Heart (Till I Hold You in My Arms)." It went on to spend 21 weeks at the top.
Bill Anderson - singer, Country Music Hall of Fame singer, "Wild Weekend," writer of modern hits "Whiskey Lullaby," "Give it Away" and "Joey"
Kinky Friedman - singer
Lyle Lovett - singer, "Cowboy Man," ex-husband of Julia Roberts
Big Kenny - singer, Big and Rich, "Save a Horse (Ride a Cowboy)," "Lost in This Moment"
Provided by ABC News Radio
Check out more A Day in Music


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Chinese female world records
Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board (within reason). The forum is now closed.
Chinese female world records
Who thinks they are legit?
Re: Chinese female world records
If you're after controversy, this ain't the subject. No one with any grey cells at all takes those times seriously.
Re: Chinese female world records
Bueller, Bueller??
Re: Chinese female world records
I'm not sure if my"matter" is grey or not. Certainly the hair surrounding it is gradually turning a distinguished grey
But I do have a brain, and over 40 years experience of coaching distance runners, from beginners to Olympians, and everything in between. I was fortunate enough to have me and talked with many of the World's best distance runners and coaches during that time period, and believe I understand the sport of distance running quite well...
And I have no idea how to explain the Chinese phenomenon. None, whatsoever....
When some of them did show up at the 1992 Games in Barcelona, they seemed to make most of the rest of the World's runners look decidely second class. How do you explain that?
I really would like to know what they were doing, other than the stuff that the African distance runners are currently doing to most of the rest of the World...
Any thoughts?
Re: Chinese female world records
my take is that with a monstrous population from which to choose (and the political system with which to implement it), they were able to selectively find women who were at the utmost upper end of the legal-testosterone scale. It's the only explanation that makes sense.
Re: Chinese female world records
It was the '93 Worlds. Only Qu got a medal in '92 (Bronze in the 1500m).
Re: Chinese female world records
This is a really interesting theoy that I've never heard before. If this is the case then the records would be perfectly legitimate.
I have always assumed that they were clearly extremely talented athletes, who had been forced to train incredibly hard and had no fear or proper understanding of what the limits should be. Western women at the time considered Ingrid's WR to be completely unbreakable. If someone ran under 31 mins we considered it to be a sensational run. Wang just ran as fast as she could for as long as she could with no knowledge of the fact what she was doing was supposed to be impossible.
I also think they took vast amounts of illegal substances with no interference from drug testers (Are we allowed to say that about these athletes??? Even today???).
I like your theory more and hope it's the truth.
After all these years surely someone would be able to shed light on what actually happened. Whilst no one wouldn't expect Ma or Wang to come forward and admit to anything illegal they were doing there must have been plenty who know the truth and you would assume that something would have leaked by now.
Re: Chinese female world records
There is an alternative possibility. They did not run the full length of the distance. We have had attempts to cheat even at some international meets, let alone something without any independent observers (jumps, throws for instance). Or both options are in play .
Re: Chinese female world records
Right. I think very likely there were drugs and/or testosterone manipulation going on, but I can't see that as really being the one and only answer, or that '93 "success" would have been replicated again, somewhere, somehow. I'm also for the short-track or faulty timing theory. One may say that the men's times weren't all that great at the meet, but so what? The men were simply lousy, while the women were--clearly--exceptional, that can't be doubted. But I just can't believe the gang of them were THAT exceptional. The wholesale slaughter of the all-time lists, day after day, by some of the same athletes, and by others that we never heard of again, just got to be--literally--unbelievable. I remember at the time that some commentators said that the women's records had been very "soft" and the '93 results were simply a natural progression. That seemed like baloney at the time, and after 17 years, is obviously baloney.
When a set of performances has NO historical precedent whatsoever, and--after 17 years--hasn't been remotely approached in any other context, something is very wrong.
Truthfully, I'd wager that we'll never have a real or satisfying answer to this.
Re: Chinese female world records
i do think there is some truth in the fact the the records were weak and it is a shame that there has been little effort to beat the 10k record ever since. in 02 Paula could have gone well under 30 in a race with some help considering she ran 30.01 completely by herself in the rain. Untill very recently, all the fastest times had been set at major champs. If WR attempts had been set up for, Tula, Wami, Radcliffe, Adere, Dibaba, Defar, Abeylegesse etc etc 29.30 would not be looking so outlandish
Last edited by mump boy on Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Chinese female world records
But a short track doesn't explain there wholesale destruction of all comers at the 93 Worlds.
Didn't Liu Dong run the last 800m of the 1500m in something like 1.56!!!
Her last lap is ridiculous, you don't just run away from Hassiba and Sonia like that
A short track and get you fast times but it can't make you into a world beater.
Re: Chinese female world records
I tried to be very clear that it's the sum total of the performances that makes it all unbelievable to me. There is NO question that these runners were of exceptional talent; thus, I'm not at all surprised that one or two of them did well against the rest of the world. It's the full week's performances in '93--day after day, with all the athletes involved--that really, truly stinks and which defies rational explanation.
And I really do NOT buy the idea that the records were "weak" in '93. They were not.
Re: Chinese female world records
What a surprise! I fully agree with kuha .
Re: Chinese female world records
So the rest of the world, including the East Germans and Soviets, who seem to spare nothing in their searches for superior athletes and medical manipulations, couldn't find any women at this so-called 'upper' end'? But the Chinese could come up with over a dozen? And their men are crap? That makes no sense at all.
Since there was zero gender testing at the time, that frankly, I don't think they were women at all.
Re: Chinese female world records
I think they were certainly women and the track was regulation. These performances were staged to gain the world's attention at a time when China was bidding to host the Olympics.
I think the athletes were probably doped and peaked without any thought to a longterm career. I don't believe the Chinese women themselves had any inkling to this, but were convinced by their guru Ma that they could run like deer, as they said at the time. I think this combination indicates why they were so good. If you look at Wang her running action was phenomenal, I've never seen a woman distance runner with such an impressive, efficient action.
I think the most telling thing about this era is a short piece on youtube that shows Qu Junxia, world record holder and world champion, being pushed to the ground by Ma from his motorbike for hot trying hard enough. That is the power he had over them, and the commitment he demanded - and the punishment he meted out for any sort of failure. She was apparently the only member of the original Family Army who stayed loyal to him btw. I can't imagine a western athlete tolerating this treatment.
Btw Liu Dong never ran a 1:56 in a 1500, she ran 1:56 and 1:55 in heat and final of the 800 then paced the 1500 through 57 and 2:01 before dropping out.
Re: Chinese female world records
Flumpy wasn't talking about her run at the chinese games but the WC 1500m final in 93, she didn't run 1.56 for the last 800 but she certainly ran sub 2min
Re: Chinese female world records
Even though some of them have given birth since?
Re: Chinese female world records
I think she ran the last 700 in about 1:42/1:43, and even with the slow first 800 she would have been about 2min or under for the last 800, yes. She was awesomely impressive, particularly down the final backstretch - she must have covered it in well under 14. It was surprising that she only paced the world record in the People's Games as she must have been capable of a time around 3:50 herself.
Re: Chinese female world records
Sorry, I had a brain fart about the 1992/1993 situation. Obviously, it was the 1993 World Champs. where the Chinese women showed their stuff to the World...
Aside from anything illegal....
1) Large population of young females, mostly from a peasant background, i.e., working hard in the yard to scratch out a living from age 3 or whatever, pedestrian transport to wherever, so high levels of fitness, strength, and work ethic built in...
2) I don't know the specific numbers, but many of these girls lived at altitude apparently.
3) Women in the Chinese society were totally subservient, and a demagogue such as Ma could ask/order/insist they train until they dropped, and of course they said yes, if they could find a breath to say anything...
4) Ma was obviously a bit unhinged, shall we say, and those that survived his training had to be, by definition, very tough and very fast.
5) In China, the Chinese National Games were apparently more important than the Olympic Games, as it was an honour to win in your Motherland, an honour that yourselves and your families would share forever.
6) If my understanding is correct, many of these young women were taken away to train full time with Ma during their early teens, a time when it is possible to really alter the body's
physiological capacities, as growth is still occurring, and some vital capacities are yet to be established.
There are probably others, but I think that as a Canadian for instance, if I was a "Ma",
and did the same with all the Canadian women that have run between 4:00 and 4:06 for 1500 metres, I could certainly have produced some sub 3:55 performances, at the very least, and who knows how much faster. And that's with a Country of only 33 million...
So, not saying there wasn't more happening, just saying there are some pretty good reasons why these women might run very fast.
Re: Chinese female world records
Rasb, everything you said above makes sense. My problem is that all those parameters should produce a self-perpetuating program of high-quality individuals (probably of both sexes). This did not happen. Ma's Army was a short-lived phenomenon.
Re: Chinese female world records
Absolutely correct. It is a historical phenomenon with no precedent, and nothing remotely similar since then to back it up.
Re: Chinese female world records
In answer:
1) Complaints about Ma caused his early "demise". I think he was a unique, almost "one-of-a-kind" demagogue, whose total lack of caring for his athlete's personal health, combined with his enormous ego, combined with a solid knowledge of distance running, combined with a personality that interfaced with these young girls needs, and produced unbelievable performances... I think he controlled their diets, and I'm if I did that, there would be lots of iron rich foods, especially during puberty and afterwards, and appropriate C and B vitamin rich foods to enhance absorption. That would help to supercharge his athletes....
Now whether they blood-doped to add even more to that effect, I don't know.... Personally, I think the hemacrit would become so thick in the bloodstream, that not only would effects be negative, but people would dying or permanently damaged, particarly in cardiac function...
An interesting study would be to track down the women who ran those times, and have an independent assessment of their current cardiovascular systems, and whether they are damaged, or relatively "normal" It would also be interesting to know what their current iron status is --- I wonder if serum ferritin levels, for instance, could be elevated for life...
2) Men wouldn't put up with being treated like that, and Ma figured that quickly, and didn't bother with them....
Re: Chinese female world records
If true, I wouldn't even bet it is the same person. Frankly the whole episode was so bizarre that on face value I don't believe any of it.
Remember the real nonsense was all in China.
Re: Chinese female world records
It sounds as though there is a lot of doubt. Thanks for answering my original post. These world records have always bothered me.
(1) Short track--I doubt that, the IAAF has the track surveyed.
(2) PED's--this is a whole can a worms that I can't possibly answer. But, when the East German "scientiets" fled after the wall came down and went to China--the same scenario and suspicions came up. The women showed rapid improvement and the men flatlined. It was all done in seclusion and meets with restrictive access from the west. I just don't recall them beling allowed to compete in the West. And, somehow the Chinese alluded a lot of testing that western athletes go through.
Look at the scandals from the Chinese with gymnastics and other sports. There is just a huge shadow of doubt.
On the other hand--the Chinese have a huge population that appear to be good endurance athletes. Let's face it--not a lot of raw speed. And, other than Ma's army having a situation in Sydney--no other charges have proven credible.
I would expect more and more chinese distance runners competing at an international level.
Re: Chinese female world records
That might be because, despite there being billions of Chinese people, there has still only been one Ma Junren; one man crazy and driven enough to attempt to pull something like that off with the right connections and set-up. His ban and bad publicity probably had something to do with this not becoming a self-perpetuating program.
Re: Chinese female world records
The idea that the population of China is huge compared to the rest of the world is a fallacy. BILLION!
The population of China is 1.3 billion. The population of the US and Europe combined is 1.1 billion. So roughly the same.
And what evidence is there of this Great Chinese Endurance? Mao's Long March?
The whole thing in Bejing in 1993 was nonsensical.
Re: Chinese female world records
I have to agree. It stunk to high heaven then, and it all looks even MORE ridiculous in hindsight.
Re: Chinese female world records
So, please explain to me and to others, what exactly the Chinese were doing, that was not legal, to achieve those performances. No hyberbole, just the facts, please...
I stand by my earlier statement that in Canada, we could have easily produced a dozen or so women, running sub 4:00, with all the "natural conditions" that have been outlined earlier on this thread, that applied to Ma's Army, and not so much to the rest of the World...
And how did they look so good, at the World Champs. in 1993? I assume the track was the right distance, and I assume the medallists were tested, so ????
Don't just say the times were "ridiculous", tell me what they were doing....I know you can't, and that's kewl.... As a coach of elite female distance runners since the late 1960's, the performances stretched my belief system of course, but under the circumstances that I am aware of, they are not all that "beyond the pale", in my opinion. Certainly not any more so than the current East African dominance...
Re: Chinese female world records
Is it not radiantly clear that us skeptics have no solid "answer" for any of this? It's all guessing, with some guesses more believable than others.
I've expounded on this enough in the last decade or more. I will simply repeat that the week in question has NO historical precedent (if I'm wrong, please point them out) and NOTHING since then has made that week make any more sense. History has had 17 long seasons to "absorb" those performances--and they remain statistical outliers to an extreme, and ridiculous, extent.
It amazes me, but I have no problem in folks "believing" in those marks. However, I don't--at all--and I'm clearly not alone.
Re: Chinese female world records
Pretty certain there was gender testing in 1992-93. The IOC/IAAF ban on it came along later in the 1990s, I think.
Re: Chinese female world records
Also, you can manipulate female physiology more than men's, trying to bring it closer to the male physiology. Not as far to go with the men
Re: Chinese female world records
Not only were the records to BIG (large cuts), but there were so many that recorded times that even with the fuller influx of Kenyan and Ethiopian women no one has gotten close to the 1500, 3000, and would not be close to the 10,000 if she had run it evenly paced. The records were not soft -- the old 1500m record still has not been bettered except for this one episode.
Re: Chinese female world records
This post will probably kill this thread – not because what I'm offering is so explosive that even the "Free Speech" thread can't handle it, but because, well, that's what MasterPo's posts usually do – they euthanize discussions. But let me try anyway, in the spirit of malice toward none and charity for all, and careful and complex thinking about everything, or at least the constant attempt to do that. First, a whole bunch of disclaimers:
Apologies in advance – probably the longest post I, or most anyone, will ever make. I hope it doesn't crash the system.
And I hope someone reads this, and I hope it fosters discussion, but I expect it won't.
I usually don't read the Free Speech Weekend Forum, but I appreciate its presence because it's the only place we can discuss this question in T&F history. I note in reading this thread that there are a dozen posters whose ideas I have tended to pay close attention to over the years: kuha, bad hammy, gh, flumpy, pego, mump boy, conor dary, nevetsllim, rasb, jon, bambam, 26m235. I have learned a lot from reading a lot of your posts, and some of what's posted by some of you on this thread I agree with, but…there's something about this historical question that leads us to stop thinking carefully.
I realize that many of you – and many other posters on these boards – have great T&F credentials, or related credentials: I have none of those. I wasn't an elite athlete, am not a coach, nor physician, nor physiologist, nor esteemed T&F historian, statistician, or journalist. (But I learn from all of you, and others.)
However, I do study China for a living (or at least part of my living). I would not call myself a "China expert" (and I would encourage you to be skeptical of anyone who calls him or herself such). But I think it helps here to have the perspective of someone who does study China, and has done so for years. What I see in Chinese women's athletics does not seem strange or questionable to me, with one major exception (or, to be specific, 3 races in one meet).
In short: I have no problem with the "Chinese women's times" that seem to cause such angst, with the exception of the 1500m heats and final at Shanghai on 17 October and 18 October 1997.
It helps if we stop looking at them as a generic group of "Chinese women's times" and look at them event by event and meet by meet, and athlete by athlete (in some cases). If we were on the other side of the world and looking at the "American sprinters" or "Jamaican sprinters" times or at Kenyan or Ethiopian distance runners generically, or at the marks put up by various northern European throwers of heavy or pointy objects, we wouldn't get very far in our analysis. Let's not do that here.
And, let's also acknowledge that athletics cultures occasionally produce extraordinary athletes who put up extraordinary times – Bolt, Radcliffe, Gebrselassie, El G, and others. In the Chinese women's athletics period of the early to mid-90s, I think there are two.
And, let's acknowledge that some athletics cultures seem to have endless capacities to produce top-level athletes in particular events or clusters of events: Kenya, Ethiopia, USA, Jamaica. It's not surprising when the greatest of the great come out of those cultures with that sort of production (though they don't always, e.g., Radcliffe).
One of the things that surprises me (as one who studies modern China, and who follows T&F, and athletics cultures generally) about the Chinese women's athletics culture over the past two decades or more is that they haven't done better in the distance events. In addition to the 1500m times from 1997, that's what is a real challenge for explanation, at least for me as a student of Chinese culture and its modernization. After 1993, I expected them to be producing top-level distance runners in the way we see them from Kenya and Ethiopia (and to some lesser extent, Japan), but that really hasn't happened. The national meets in Beijing in 1993 and Shanghai in 1997 were something of an exception, but even there, it's only the 1997 1500m that's out of line with history, in the general sense (meaning – sometimes extraordinary athletes – Bolt, Radcliffe, Gebrselassie, Bekele, El G – produce times that are out of line with "history in a general sense" – i.e., they as individuals violate our expectations of how an event usually develop).
In Chinese women's athletics from the period in question, two athletes meet this standard: Junxia Wang, and Yunxia Qu (I'm listing these names in the non-traditional given name-surname order, as they are in IAAF lists.) I wish these would be given their due, but I realize they won't, for a variety of reasons. They are lost to their own culture's restrictions (i.e., contact with press, opportunities to race in Europe, etc.), to language barriers, to the suspicions of outsiders, to the way we see them as one undifferentiated mass, and to the foregone conclusion that someone in some way, cheated.
Chinese women began appearing in WC/OG competitons in the late 80s, with little notice, as they made not a great impact in medals or times. As we all know, 1993 in Stuttgart was their big moment, but other than the surprise it generated among "us," it wasn't that big a deal:
1500m 1. Dong Liu 4:00.50
3000m 1. Yunxia Qu 8:28.71; Linli Zhang 8:29.25; Lirong Zhang 8:31.95
10000m 1. Junxia Wang 30:49.30; Huandi Zhong 31:12.55
A great meet for them, but the times were/are not outrageous, not out of line with other WC/OG winning/medal times, and certainly not of the order of "those people must be cheating." Look at the press from that meet – it's the surprise factor that shapes the interpretation. That, combined with the "we just beat the commies, and now these other commies are taking over" factor.
But as we look at the WC/OG era of the past two+ decades, what we see is – Oh, they had a great meet in 1993. From slightly before and ever since, they're in the mix with every other dominant or consistently present women's distance running culture (Ethiopia, Kenya, Japan, maybe even the USA, etc.) – they get some medals and top 10 finishes. In retrospect, they had a great meet at Stuttgart. They weren't running WRs -- they just won. Kind of like USA distance men in Tokyo 1964 – looked like the USA men were poised for greatness in the distances: two medals in the 5, gold in the 10, 6th in the marathon, and two hs kids who didn't medal but were going to escort us into the great future of distance running prominence, if not dominance. In retrospect, it looks like this – Oh, they had a great meet. Other stuff, and other athletics cultures, happened. History happened. That's what China's women got in the distances in 1993 at Stuttgart.
But what about the Chinese national meets in 1993 and 1997? Isn't that what's messed everything up in the all-time lists, even though it was Stuttgart 1993 that originally made us all bitter and suspicious?
Let's look at this meet by meet and event by event – and keep in mind that part of what I'm arguing is that they produced two fantastic distance runners in this period: Junxia Wang, and Yunxia Qu. Both of whom, frankly, never got all of the opportunities to show their greatness, due to the over-control of the athletes in the Chinese system – but that's part of my argument about the importance of the national championships in Chinese athletics, especially for the women in this time period.
The athletics development system, in the Deng Xiaoping "reform and liberalization" era that started in the early 1980s, was beginning to bear some fruit by the late 80s, and certainly in the early 90s. The athletics development system, the general athletics culture, and the culture for women, has some of the strengths and weaknesses that we see in Japan, in Kenya, in Ethiopia, and in the old USSR (but I don't mean drug/doping culture here) – in some ways, highly organized, and at least identifying talent across the country; in some ways, valorizing the strength of women while allowing them too few opportunities in society to show it; athletics providing an outlet and opportunity for social advancement, not just for the athlete but for her family and community; and so on – there's more to say on this. But the system in China also had some great problems – kind of like a funnel with a very, very wide end, and a far too tiny narrow end. Search the entire country for athletic talent, train them to within an inch of their lives with a promise/hope of glory, and then provide almost no outlets for their talents – they can't race abroad, can't change citizenship, can't hire agents or coaches, can't pursue USA collegiate careers, can't get corporate sponsorship (as in Japan), etc. etc. Out of that huge pool, 3 can go to WC/OG, and that's it. Everyone else is racing "at home" in China. Thus, the national championships became one of the most fiercely competitive meets.
The only analogy I have for this is USA or Jamaica sprinting/hurdling, or Kenya-Ethiopia distance. You have to be incredibly good to make a WC/OG team. But in those cultures, other top athletes can compete internationally, and make a living and life. For the Chinese women—of whom there were many in the system. Hardly anyone would get the chance to compete at WC/OG. Thus, the national meet was – in that period for those distances – very competitive, in an all-or-nothing sort of way.
But even there, we have to identify the exceptions, of two kinds:
--the two exceptional athletes (Wang and Qu)
--the one exceptionally strange event: 1997 Shanghai 1500m
And note these two presumptions on my part – I realize not shared by others: (1) I absolutely expected China to be deep in women's distance talent, as is Kenya and Ethiopia, and as USA and Jamaica are in sprints. Not of the exceptional level of Wang and Qu, but deep in runners capable of putting up some top times (and then never really being heard from much again, as is usually the case). (2) I think these WR times were, and are, possible, even for non-Africans. In other words, on this second point, I think women can run 3:50, 8:06, 14:28 (oops, they've already far surpassed this!), and 29:31.
So, let's look at the meets:
In the national meet in Beijing in 1993, we have:
10,000 (final, 8 September 1993):
1. Junxia Wang 29:31.78
2. Huandi Zhong 30:13.37
3. Lirong Zhang 31:09.25
4. Liyan Ma 31:10.46
My analysis: Wang is one of the great female distance runners, and in this national meet, of utmost importance – in some ways beyond the WC, she was determined to show it. Zhong, one of the other top, sort of benefitted by chasing her, running a top, but not shocking time. The others, were where I would expect. Without Wang, Zhong runs maybe 30-mid or 30-high for the win. Not shocking.
1500m (final, 11 Sept. 1993):
1. Yunxia Qu 3:50.46
2. Junxia Wang 3:51.92
3. Linli Zhang 3:57.46
4. Renmei Wang 3:58.64
5. Li Liu 3:59.34
6. Lirong Zhang 3:59.70
7. Yuan Wang 3:59.81
8. Yi Lu 4:00.05
My analysis: Two great athletes bashing each other to the limit to win a race that was of great, great importance in Chinese women's athletics, and to these two competitors, each of whom wanted to be considered the greatest Chinese women's distance runner. That's an accolade that probably doesn't mean crap to us, but our "greatest sprinter" debates don't mean much over there. After the two greats, a deep, but not outrageously deep, race. Some of the followers' times were the result of a version of what I call the "El G-Ngeny effect." A bunch of highly fit and talented followers, getting their fastest times ever in this one great race. Without Qu and Wang, this race would have been won perhaps in 3:58-3:59, or 4-low.
3000m heats (12 Sept. 1993)
Heat 1:
1. Wang 8:12.19
2. Qu 8:12.27
3. Liyan Ma 8:19.78
Heat 2:
1. Linli Zhang 8:22.06
2. Lirong Zhang 8:22.44
My analysis: Well, they put the two greats in the same heat, and the first one. Ma benefited from chasing. The other heat – fast, but not beyond what others have done. And, it needed to be fast to make the final. Not surprising there.
3000m final (13 Sept. 1993):
1. Wang 8:06.11
2. Qu 8:12.18
3. Yinli Zhang 8:16.50
4. Liyan Ma 8:21.26
My analysis: More Wang and Qu, and a couple of athletes who benefited from chasing their great battle.
Shanghai 1997
1500m heats (17 October)
Heat 1
Summary: Won in 3:57.15, with one other in 3:57, two in 3:58, and one in 3:59.
Heat 2
Summary: Won in 3:55.01, with 3 others in 3:55, and one each in 3:56, 3:57, 3:58.
(I believe that's 12 under 4:00.)
1500m final (18 October)
1. Jiang Bo 3:50.98
2. Yinglai Lang 3:51.34
Others: 2 in 3:53, one each in 3:54, 3:55, two in 3:57, one in 3:58.
My analysis: While I could try to wedge these times into the overall cultural argument I'm making, these are too many, and too exceptional, by too many athletes, all at once, and never or hardly ever again. I do think something's wrong with the timing, with the placement of the start line, or something. I'm not surprised in the heats that Heat 2 went faster than Heat 1, but beyond that, these results are problematic. I do bracket these in my own all-time lists, in the same way that I assume 10.49 from Indy in 1988 is bracketed by some or many on here.
It's worth noting in the Chinese all-time women's 1500m list, if we set aside Shanghai 1997, we have the following: Wang and Qu from Bejing 1993, and then Qu (3:57.08 Barcelona 1992) and Wang (3:58.00 Jinan 1993) as the next times on the list. I realize that some will note the gap between these two times and the two fastest they ran against each other, but I note that these are the two greats. In that one race they had their ideal 1500m moment, against each other. And beyond that, they are the top two on China's a-t list, Shanghai 1997 aside. (I realize that Qu was in the 1997 meet.)
Other distance results from Shanghai 1997 are not exceptional. For instance, the 10,000 was won in 30:38.09, with several other times in 30-high or 31-low. Deep and fast, but perhaps not disturbing.
The 5,000 was as follows:
1. Bo Jiang 14:28.09
2. Yanmei Dong 14:29.82
Others: two in high-14:30s, two in high 14:40s.
My analysis: Of course, at the time, this was WR stuff, but we seem to have calmed down about these times, since the east Africans have bested them, by a lot. Perhaps Bo Jiang was one of potential Chinese greats, but I don't know – she ran two fantastic times in that meet, and never again. Her 5,000 time is great, but no longer disturbing. Her 1500m time is among those that I bracket.
All of these times (1997 1500m aside) are as I would have expected, and as I would expect if the Kenyan or Ethiopian national meets were at sea level and were of the highest prestige. That is to say, fast, deep, as expected.
Some other thoughts, more general, but of no less importance:
In the 1980s and into the early-mid 90s, as China was developing rapidly on all fronts, the pursuit of athletics prestige was one outlet for Chinese women who found their way into the athletics system, which was also an educational and career path advancement system. The entire country was coming out of a time of great hardship, and in some ways it was both a "3rd world" and "developed" country (and still is).
I don't know the social background of every Chinese women who appears on these all-time lists, but I am fairly certain about the generalized description: Rural, working class, "peasants" so to speak. Let me generalize a bit further: Incredibly tough, strong, disciplined, capable of enduring almost anything if it has a chance of benefiting family or community. Not nearly enough opportunities for their talents. Want to stay on the farm? Work in a factory? How about getting into Ma's distance running program? They weren't just pushed to their limits – they pushed themselves to their limits. We often look at the Kenyans and Ethiopians and valorize them for their simple and rigorous lifeways, fearlessness of hard work, and their hunger for success – and the very concrete family/community benefits it brings. Same for these Chinese women. (And there are a hell of a lot more of them.)
Many of them broke, burned out, quit, or just moved on to other phases of life, especially as they realized they had very few outlets for their talents and as many realized they weren't getting rewarded for their efforts and accomplishments. In that respect, the system used them, and used up many of them to find a small handful of greats. As the nation has developed, athletes expectations have changed, and such women have more options for their talents, in a very general cultural sense.
The program of the early-mid 90s has "matured" in some ways. It now identifies fewer "greats" who have longer careers. Sun Yingjie and Zhou Chunxiu are two great examples. And, they have settled in to where I would expect their distance running culture to be – a much larger but analogous and parallel track to Japan – great marathoners and 10,000m runners. They may yet produce some greats at 1500m-5000m, but I doubt it (but more possible in China than in Japan – sheer numbers).
For those women in the 1990s, we in the West didn't grasp or believe them when there was some journalistic contact -- mostly we ridiculed them or assumed they were liars. They said they drank soup made with turtle's blood, and ate rare mushrooms, that helped endurance and strength. The journalism I saw on this mocked the Chinese, and assumed they were dissembling. I'm not making scientific claims about these foodstuffs (though I think there was a study a few years later on the mushrooms), but I can tell you that the belief that such foods do contribute to strength and endurance is widespread. That's exactly what I would have expected those women to say.
And when they reported running up to 150-200 miles a week (which I recall from some press reports), we also assumed they were lying, or trying to deceive in some way. I am confident they were being trained incredibly hard, and I know the slippage between Chinese and English on the terms for "mile." There are specific terms for "English mile" and "kilometer" and there is a general term for a unit of distance that usually is translated as "mile", but is shorter than either of the other two. I am sure that the women were reporting their mileage in their own vernacular terms.
And, I know we tend to look at their culture and see totalitarian, dominance of women, deferential to authority (especially among women, etc.) – and there are grains of truth in all that stereotyping, but one one point, I would be very surprised about these women in this period – that they would without question have submitted to injections, or pills, or however performance-enhancing substances are administered – more suspicion than you would expect about some of those "western" medicines, and I can assure you, great resistance if they saw physical changes that compromised their "femaleness" or their sense of themselves as "girls" (a term I see them use at later ages than we do in the West) or young women.
So, a giant athletics culture developing over the past ~25 years, with great national(istic) organization in some ways, and no qualms about running people into the ground, produced, in my view, two of the great female distance runners of recent decades, and an additional group who have found their way onto annual and all-time lists, or medal stands, or top 10 finishes. And, in the process, produced one very, very weird 1500m series in 1997. Other athletics cultures have produced their own short list of greats in the past few decades (and that 10.49 was produced in a national championship meet). Greatness happens, and crap happens, and history has produced new sources of female athletic talent in cultures where it wasn't being produced a generation ago. Why so hard to believe? One of the problems is that this analysis isn't simple – it doesn't write off a whole culture of athletics that we would prefer to suspect, but at the same time, it doesn't apologize for, or defend an athletics culture (that burned out many runners, and screwed up the all-time lists in the 1500m).
I realize that I can't prove any of this, and I don't expect it to persuade anyone, as minds have been made up for a long time on these issues. And, to anyone who actually read this entire post, thank you. Send me a personal message, and I'll send you payment for your time.
Re: Chinese female world records
I read it in its entirety and came out convinced that you are one exceptionally intelligent person, an erudite writer as well as somebody I would be proud to call friend. The message I'll have to think about .
Re: Chinese female world records
This is very interesting.
It is possible that most distance runners never reach their full potential as far as the time is concerned. They try to peak for the major championships (OG or WC), but in those races, the record is not their primary concern. I remember reading that Bekele was in a "world record shape" in Beijing. But we will never know what time he was capable of running, because he was not running for the record. And when he was chasing a WR, maybe he wasn't in as good a shape. And so many little things (temparature, humidity, wind, etc.) could go wrong to slow down the race.
But imagine top runners in in their best shape, running a race under "ideal" conditions, and trying to run as fast as they could (instead of engaging in a tactical race). It is quite possible that they produce times they cannot come close to before or after.
Re: Chinese female world records
That is quite simply one of the best posts I've ever read on this or any other forum.
It has actually made me reconsider the beliefs that I have held for nearly 20 years and whilst I doubt we'll ever know the truth this comes the closest making sense of any explanation I've heard.
Re: Chinese female world records
Surely the troubling thing about the races wasn't that they won, but the manner in which they did it. If I'm not mistaken the negative splits were ridonculous and you knew whilst watching that they could have run much faster but were simply doing enough (And following the instructions) to win.
Re: Chinese female world records
This is a very good point. I remember in the late 90's early 00's when anyone of the likes of the likes of Gaby/Sonia/Gete/Berhane/Paula etc could have lowered the 5,000, record considerably but insisted on titting about and worrying that they would lose the race rather than trying to lay down a great time.
Babyface and Meseret have done the same.
Re: Chinese female world records
Look I'm not saying I'm an expert on this (before my time), but why is it hard to believe they were on EPO (or whatever the drug)? Seems clear to me, but like I said I wasn't around at the time. I do second many of the other factors people have mentioned, in summation saying Ma Junren was an extraordinary coach with extraordinary means, both cultural and institutional.
Re: Chinese female world records
Master Po: Many thanks for this. I truly admire your clarity, logic, and care. This is a compelling argument that deserves to be taken very seriously.
I do think, however, that you've underplayed the anomalous nature of this whole week, as well as the WAY in which some of these performances were achieved. In shorthand:
-it wasn't simply the 29:31 time that was amazing, but the fact that the last half was 14:26, and the last 3000 in 8:17--both way under the then-current WRs. By this measure, the 29:31 was probably easily "worth" 29:15, no? And for the race as a whole, best ever marks for place: 1-13.
-2 days later, 10 Sept. saw the 1500 heats, in which Qu ran 3:59.38; Wang ran 4:01.55; and the slowest qualifier, in 12th, was 4:02.44 (!).
-the next day, 11 Sept, saw the 3:50.46 WR, with Wang also under the old record; best ever marks for place: 1-2, 7-9
-the next day, 12 Sept, saw the 3000 heats; in the first the top two broke the standing WR (8:22.06, 8:22.44); in the second, Wang ran 8:12, followed by two more under 8:20 (best ever marks for place: 1-3).
-the next day, 13 Sept, saw the 3000 final, with an 8:06 winning time, Qu at 8:12, and 3 more under the original WR (best ever marks for place: 1-5).
How many "the next day"s can we really stomach here? Why the absurdly fast heats? (Not all were needed for actual advancement to the final.) Why the mass of no-name athletes destroying the previous WRs? (But I fully agree that Wang and Qu were extremely talented.)
There were a total of 14 performances under the previous WRs. There were a total of 8 under 1:59 in the 800 (which I haven't even bothered to insert in the chronology above); 7 under 4:00 in the 1500; 5 under 8:22 at 3000; and 11 under 31:33 in the 10,000.
Nothing in previous history comes remotely close to this deep, sustained, and wholesale slaughter of the record books. And absolutely nothing since has come anywhere close to duplicating it. Nothing comes close in terms of day-after-day astonishing performances from several of these athletes. That week stands, conspicuously, as a historical case study of one, and only one. And as an historian, that makes me very nervous--and very doubtful.
A short track would explain this to me, whether or not it's really possible. Drugs? Perhaps, maybe even probably, but the rest of the world had them too... High testosterone levels? Castrated men? Admittedly, the theories go from plausible to not very...
So it remains a mystery to me. But after all these years, I still do not believe them. They still simply make no sense to me.
But I do appreciate your thoughtful argument....
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