Vastrm is the Warby Parker for shirts - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/video/vastrm-is-the-warby-parker-for-shirts-gxEEVGv8THOP61ttomrGaQ.html

<comment><USER2> @jontang - First off I'll be the first positive voice in that there's quite possibly a niche of people crazy enough to pay $90+ for a polo shirt. That niche isn't likely going to be myself or in general the people here on HN, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Regarding all the criticism/feedback that people are providing here - take it to heart. No, really - TAKE IT TO HEART. Reading through the list of comments it seems like everyone is providing similar criticisms (specifically that they'd never pay that much for a shirt and that they don't like the association with Warby Parker). While it's only natural to try to defend your position, I'd say really try to dig in and ask, "Is there a reason everyone is saying the same things or are they just misunderstanding my business?" If the latter, realize that this isn't a "People just don't understand us" issue like some type of angsty teenager, it's a flaw in how Vastrm is marketing itself and how potential customers see the potential benefit. This isn't something to be taken lightly and dismissed, this is something that has killed countless great businesses.

Everything aside - I don't really like polo shirts to begin with, but I wish you the best of luck.

<comment><USER2> Also, looking at the actual content on your front page I'm somewhat lost.

Slide 1/2 - Both slides push "New Designer Collections". What does that even mean? If Vastrm is positioning itself as high quality custom polos then everything on the site should speak to that level of quality and be recognizable as "designerware" by the Vastrm brand, not just because you say it's part of a designer collection."

Slide 3 - It's a decent idea in that it pushes something that I'm going to assume is unique about your brand (the woven collar), but I still have no idea what that means or how it's going to benefit me.

Slide 4 - vCool fabric? I don't particularly care that my shirt has "moisture wicking" fabric, I care that it's high quality, comfortable, and is going to help me look damn good.

Slide 5 - This is your entire business! Why in the hell is it the last slide? Less than 10% of people will ever stick around to see the last slide and it's the most important one you've got. The imagery itself leaves something to be desired, but designing my own shirt is one of the biggest selling point for Vastrm.

The thirds columns below are decent but aren't that convincing (first one is the best of the bunch but needs to be shown on an actual model showing how damn good of a fit it really is). What are these details that make it a luxury shirt? Why is the call to action on the video "Learn More" instead of "Watch the Video" or something more specific to its content?

The "Home Try On Program" block is again one of the most important parts of your business (it's risk free! Try it on and send what you don't like back!), and it's at the bottom of the page. Sell this idea!

Also, your 100 years of history looks great! This tells me your company has a story, a history. This is the type of BS that people love to know is there (even if they dont' bother reading the page) - that you're not some big chain retailer but a small business with a family history that's sticking it to "The Man".

The actual product grid pages look decent, but the single product pages are overwhelming me with an accordion of options. I understand the idea is allowing people to customize their shirt, but I'd have to click at least 20 different times to open/select each option and then add the product to cart.

Make it responsive!

Obligatory Plug - I'm an SF based web designer/front-end developer with experience doing responsive Magento stores for clients.

<comment><AUTHOR> You make great points. We should talk.

<comment><USER2> Feel free to email me at email@example.com

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> The only correlation I see is that the polos are the same price as Warby Parker's eyeglasses. In my mind, Warby Parker saves me a bunch of money over the alternatives. This is not the same buisness model.

<comment><AUTHOR> The comparison to Warby Parker was more in terms of customer engagement model vis a vis the home try on program. Cost structure, supply chain, mfr, and the competitive nature of our businesses are quite different, as you point out.

<comment><USER4> In light of that, isn't Zappos a more apt comparison?

<comment><AUTHOR> Somewhat, but our customers aren't buying an off the rack shirt here. We are sending sizing templates for people to try on. They then go back to our site to determine any adjustments to their sizing profile (adding length to shirt or shortening a sleeve, or tapering the waist, etc). They send the try on shirts back to us and we then go ahead and make a one of kind size and fit for that customer based on their unique body type. make sense?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Yawn.

Plenty of companies already sell custom shirts online. What's the big deal about Vastrm? What's revolutionary?

Also, what's the big deal about Warby Parker? Just slick marketing and creation of a brand, but the same Chinese factories as used by CHEAP-GLASSES- FRAMES-DOT-COM.

EDIT:

Nice, a downvote after just a few seconds. Look, just because Vastrm is a YCombinator company doesn't mean it gets a free ride.

The interviewer asks why Vastrm is special and after some mumbling about an iPhone app and custom algorithms, the CEO admits that it all comes down to letting the user pick a couple of shirts and returning the ones that don't fit. Wow, why didn't anyone think of that before?!

There is nothing special about Vastrm. They are using celebrity endorsements like Will Smith to pimp their brand but at the end of the day the shirt is still made in a sweat-shop in Thailand. Instead of paying Vastrm $115 for each polo shirt, you're better off buying a plane ticket to Bangkok so you can enjoy a nice holiday whilst getting your custom suit, shirt and shoes made for a few bucks.

<comment><AUTHOR> Most custom shirt companies out there only provide custom dress shirts and suiting. We are looking at going after the sportswear category. No one, we know, as of yet, has set up a supply chain and factory that can produce a quantity of one unit at a time without costing a fortune. The factories we use are part of a consortium that consults with the US gov't on setting up both labor friendly mfr abroad as well as clean mfr and eco friendly mfr processes. It's not a sweat shop. Sorry to disappoint. Also, this was not a free ride. We spent 2.5 years prior to YC setting up supply chain, factory, product development and a host of other logistical processes to be able to deliver quality and efficient production.

<comment><USER6> Didn't realize you were the founder.

In addition to my comments on your company name you should consider including a label of sorts somewhere on your shirt as a branding element (needs to be visible even if it hangs from the front or the tail). It doesn't have to be ala Polo or Tommy (over the chest) but there should be something to let people know that the product is yours.

Also I'm sure you have researched this but my gut says $100 is not the same as $98 in terms of consumer perception.

<comment><USER7> Please, no labels. Or if there are visible labels (beyond something small, tasteful, and discreet) have an option to remove them. I'd even pay a little extra for that option.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is like Zappos or a ton of other companies that offer free return shipping.. very little correlation to Warby Parker as mentioned.

<comment><AUTHOR> Our customers aren't buying an off the rack shirt here. We are sending sizing templates for people to try on. They then go back to our site to determine any adjustments to their sizing profile (adding length to shirt or shortening a sleeve, or tapering the waist, etc). We then go ahead and make a one of kind size and fit for that customer based on their unique body type.

<comment><USER8> Warby Parker's value proposition isn't in a custom product, it's in having a product free of massive markup. Not sure where you are see the relationship between the two.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Being in the UK I haven't had the chance to use Warby Parker, but I have used "Glasses Online" which is our equivalent from what I've heard (home try-on, good range, very good prices).

Looking at Vastrm, apart from the home try-on it doesn't appear to be the same thing at all? The whole point (I thought) of the glasses retailers is getting great quality at realistic prices rather than prices that have been over inflated by the glasses monopoly that exists.

Vastrm on the other hand sells what look like good quality clothes at the same massively inflated fashion prices that other retailers sell at. $95 for a polo shirt? I'd expect more like $35 as a 'surprising' price.

TLDR; I was quoted £140 ($220) for a pair of glasses, I went to the UK equivalent of Warby Parker and got nicer ones for £60... and they were 'buy one get one free', so essentially £30 a pair. That's the sort of 'surprise' that Vastrm needs to create, and $95 polo shirts aren't going to do that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Our value is not being a low cost leader. Our value is in getting people into shirts that fit perfectly. We hope to get our pricing down as we find efficiencies in the mfr and supply chain process. We are making one unit at a time. Not and easy problem to solve on the back end nor a cheap solution. But we are still on par with brands like Ralph Lauren, Hugo Boss, Fred Perry, Sunspel... And are less expensive than Armani, Varvatos, Zegna, etc...

<comment><USER9> Ok, fair enough if that's the market you're going for, but I don't consider it to be the same market as Warby Parker and equivalents as they emphasise the price as being an important factor.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Another interesting market for bespoke vs made-to-measure vs off the rack might be concealed carry. It is more of an issue for belts, and then kind of a toss up for pants and shirts. Unless you just go with skin tight clothing, it can be done with regular clothing now, but ccw and undercover people will spend a lot of money. It is a huge issue for women, though. (I know I'd probably never spend $80 on a regular belt, but I bought 3 without a second thought as gun belts, and I've bought $300 jackets for ccw or technical/outdoor use but unless it is a suit from ww chan, wouldn't spend it on regular clothing.)

People with physical deformities (what is a more polite way to say this?) could also be a market.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, we have been approached by folks with physical disabilities that need custom solutions. We have been looking into that.

<comment><USER10> Another market where this might be awesome is corporate gifts. I also wouldn't buy a $115 polo shirt for myself, but I probably would consider it as a gift (as long as I could put my branding or message on the gift certificate, and ideally in the packaging of the actual shirt.)

<comment><AUTHOR> Great point. And yes, we have been building our corporate business and decorating shirts with corporate logos.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm not an expert on Warby Parker but I don't see the connection.

Warby Parker took advantages of a business (eye glasses) which had greatly inflated prices and a few suppliers controlling the market. The shirt business isn't the same - there is plenty of competition, price points, and availability of product.

I won't make a guess on how good the vastrm idea is but it's no warby parker.

<comment><AUTHOR> see above response...

<comment><USER6> First impressions count. And as they say in law calling it close to Warby Parker "doesn't pass the smell test".

Your points are valid (and I will take them as correct).

But when someone sees a headline that says "the Warby Parker of" they are going to think many different things and that's at least what I thought.

Clothing is sold everywhere eyeglasses are not. Custom clothing is nothing new what Warby did essentially was a new idea.

Note also that eyeglasses have been around forever and are used by a nice percentage of the population because if you need glasses and don't wear contact lenses you need glasses.

Polo shirts are not the same (title says "custom polo shirts") and I'm not even seeing that they sell polos for women. And how many men are "metro" enough that they even care about getting customer polo shirts? There is a big difference between men's fashion and women's fashion to begin with.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great points here. Thanks for your insight. We will continue to learn from all these comments. re: men not caring about fitted polo shirts: we think the market here is fairly large. Mass merchandised clothing today only comes in 4 - 5 sizes (S, M, L, XL,etc...) but our bodies are all different shapes and sizes. So that size M that Jcrew or Ralph Lauren sells will only fit a sub- segment of the population. Everyone else is compromising on fit. If you want a better fitting shirt, come to us. If your willing to shop around for brands that fit your body type or if you don't care about fit, that is fine too. We are here to simply offer more choice for consumers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I wish that sites like this would make it obvious (or easy to find out) what geographical area they serve without my having to work my way through a checkout process to figure it out.

<comment><AUTHOR> apologies for this. We will fix this. We just started shipping to Australia, UK, Canada, France, Germany and Japan. More countries to come as we set up logistics in those countries.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I don't see the connection either. Warby Parker provides an experience that differs from their competition (luxottica) and happens to be significantly cheaper. How is Vastrm any different than a company like BlankLabel?

<comment><AUTHOR> blank label makes only dress shirts and does not offer any sort of home try on program. We are big fans of Fan Bi and co.

re: a different experience. We are sort the anti-Gap. At the Gap, one size fits all. With us, we will fit the shirt to your body type and not force you into a size that was made for the masses.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Recently got a Vastrm hoodie and it is really nice. It certainly feels great and fits great. I'll likely wear it a ton, not sure why there is such negativity in this thread.

<comment><USER14> The quality of the shirt doesn't determine the quality of the business, or the quality of the comparison in the headline.

<comment><USER6> I think that he's actually joking. Because I'm not seeing that vastrm sells any hoodies.

<comment><AUTHOR> We have been testing out hoodies as a follow on product through our retail channels as well as through a few crowd funding sites.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I added a polo shirt to the cart and it showed up as £115.00, which is about $180 USD. Is this a currency typo?

<comment><AUTHOR> That $115 is in dollars. We only support USD at this point. Our site should not convert.

<comment><USER7> Here's what I see: [http://imgur.com/KwNaq5a](http://imgur.com/KwNaq5a)

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks for taking the time to show us that. You would be charged in US $. We will look into this asap.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I said it last time they where discussed here but that name scares my manhood. :(

</comment><comment><USER16> I suppose I'm Vastrm's target customer. I love polos and have a closet full of $100+ polos to prove it.

This said, I'm not really drawn to the offering:

1\. I personally don't have a problem with fit. Many brands already offer different options (i.e. classic, slim, ultra-slim) and I'd find it hard to believe that there is a large number of individuals in the target market who can't find a brand that offers a satisfactory fit. If you're interested in wearing attractive, comfortable clothing, identifying the brands and fits that you like really isn't a big deal. And once you've done this, you generally don't need to revisit.

2\. This isn't a suit. I have little interest in spending time designing a polo or seeking a more "perfect" fit for casualwear. Vastrm seems far less efficient than "take a trip to the mall."

3\. I wouldn't consider myself a label snob, but the label and visible branding that often accompanies it is always reasonably going to be a part of the value proposition when it comes to clothing.

<comment><AUTHOR> Give us a shot to get you perfectly fitted. We'll make the first shirt for you for free. send us an email at firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Since naming is my thing I will add that the choice of vastrm as a name is horrible.

An invented word is fine but it should either relate to the product or at least be memorable and easy to pass along by mention. Especially for a consumer product which is marketed in part on a web site.

I don't know how to pronounce "vastrm" is it "vastrem" or "vastrim" or? ... and even if I did I'd have to spell it for someone since it's not close to being a word. It's a hack essentially.

Once again, they are, after all, selling to consumers.

<comment><USER10> vastrm makes me think of "rm *", actually. Which would be an awesome name for a document retention/destruction company.

<comment><USER6> Not only that but it made me think of "vasectomy" oddly enough.

Document destruction/retention: "rm"

but document retention "mv".

That's a great business by the way (destruction and document scanning). Destruction much easier though.</comment></comment></comment>


How to sound your best on calls from home - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-sound-your-best-on-calls-from-home-11590917401 <comment><AUTHOR> [https://archive.vn/qYw8d](https://archive.vn/qYw8d)</comment>


Ask HN: When to choose React, Vue, or other framework - <AUTHOR> We are fortunate to have so many good front end frameworks but I do find it hard to keep up with know how to choose between them. Currently React has the most usage with Vue having the greatest momentum. These can contribute to choosing one or the other but not based on that alone.
I use React at work and Vue at home. I would choose Vue at work for new projects because the work projects are relatively simple and developed by small (~3 person) teams. The main thing I appreciate about Vue is the low cost of creating, reusing, and maintaining components. In particular, I prefer having local state and parent<->child communication with network requests being made at the deepest level that makes sense which makes for much looser coupling.
I see the advantage of React being the number of available developers and the use of PropTypes adding stability in larger projects and teams. One thing I've noticed is that full-on React has a higher learning curve which tends to put off our mobile and back-end devs from detracting them from productive full-stack development. I think Vue would do better here, but that has yet to be tested.
Other frameworks I'd like to get some exposure and real-world experience using are Elm, ReactReason, and possibly TypeScript or PureScript in combination with some framework. I don't have much experience or interest in Angular1/2 but would like to know when they would be more appropriate choices. <comment><USER2> related:

Airbnb is sunsetting React Native [1] to move to native code:

[1] [https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/sunsetting-react- nativ...](https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/sunsetting-react- native-1868ba28e30a)

</comment><comment><USER3> If possible, I would also like to add when to choose Pjax, Turbolinks over React, Vue-like frameworks?</comment>


Polish Prime Minister suspends the ACTA ratification - <AUTHOR> http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=pl&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114884,11084929,Tusk__Zawieszamy_ratyfikacje_ACTA.html&usg=ALkJrhgCMqCs8vdKXp6gBfQmQmA8awpeMQ

<comment><USER2> It is worth noting that this happened after 250000 signatures were gathered for the referendum about ACTA:

[http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js...](http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforsal.pl%2Fartykuly%2F589187%2Cprotest_przeciw_acta_250_tys_podpisow_pod_referendum.html&act=url)

<comment><USER3> 500.000 are needed to make an official application for a referendum, which of course can be rejected by the parliament.

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> Interesting comment from an influential blogger, who was fighting against ACTA since the beginning (and is also a lawyer):

<http://prawo.vagla.pl/node/9662> (Polish) [http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&...](http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=pl&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://prawo.vagla.pl/node/9662&usg=ALkJrhiZGWGgsKRt- qAq278VM0sfpnVzhA) (translation)

Executive summary: It doesn't matter what Tusk says, Poland will be covered by ACTA when EU ratifies it.

<comment><USER4> > It doesn't matter what Tusk says, Poland will be covered by ACTA when EU > ratifies it.

If EU ratifies ACTA, but Poland not, "only" the part of ACTA that is under EU competentions will be binding ("only", because that's like 90% of the whole treaty).

But it is debatable if Poland has even the possibility to never ratify a signed treaty.

Also - any new law has to be compatible with signed international treatis, even if these treaties are not ratified).

<comment><USER5> >any new law has to be compatible with signed international treatis

If that is so, then how would Poland withdraw from a treaty that it has entered? In the U.S., the government can withdraw from a treaty simply by passing a law doing so. _Reid v. Covert_ , 354 U.S. 1 (1957) ("when a statute which is subsequent in time is inconsistent with a treaty, the statute to the extent of conflict renders the treaty null").

<comment><USER4> If I understand correctly, we can withdraw from the whole treaty. But until it remains signed, even before ratifying it, we can't create law that is not compatible with it.

But IANAL, just have read about ACTA etc recently, mostly on Vagla blog.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> _Temporarily_ suspends, it is said that they won't be resumed before end of 2012, but it doesn't mean ACTA won't be ratified at all, so let's not celebrate too soon.

Consultations are to be started Monday at 1400 local time.

<comment><USER3> update: all is pure BS <http://goo.gl/IAEKs>

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's all b#llsh!t what PM Tusk says. The whole "suspension" idea is simply wrong according to Article 18 "Obligation not to defeat the object and purpose of a treaty prior to its entry into force" of "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties" which says:

"A State is obliged to refrain from acts which would defeat the object and purpose of a treaty when:

(a) it has signed the treaty or has exchanged instruments constituting the treaty subject to ratification, acceptance or approval, until it shall have made its intention clear not to become a party to the treaty; or

(b) it has expressed its consent to be bound by the treaty, pending the entry into force of the treaty and provided that such entry into force is not unduly delayed."

I'm Polish and I have to honestly admit: my country has so many stupid political leaders, that I often feel just helpless about it.

<comment><USER7> "I'm %s and I have to honestly admit: my country has so many stupid political leaders, that I often feel just helpless about it." % countries.get_any()

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> First of all this is a reaction to polls giving the ruling party a significant drop of acceptance within the young people, who have always been the strongest support group for them.

Second thing, let's don't be naive. Tusk knows very well that what was there to sign in Japan, has been signed. It's to late to stop certain things, it's all cold thinking about the popularity and the party has to be punished in the elections anyway... although the alternative is still terrible...

<comment><USER9> Wow, a country with a ruling party whose strongest support group is young people. Compared to a lot of other countries, I'd say there's hope for Poland.

<comment><USER10> This is only telling about the alternatives :)

The left? Lots of scandals which they tried to deny/cover. Lost trust, their new leader perceived as sleazy. The "right"? They cater to religious old people and their fears of change. PSL? Farmers' & big food interests. Palikot? He _is_ the one catering to the young (reduce influence of the church, legalize MJ) but IMHO he's trying too hard to be perceived as trustworthy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> On the one hand this is a great result, congratulations to the Polish activists for acting and achieving this!

However I'm a bit sad the protests happened so late and only in Poland. ACTA had been negotiated since 2008, the final draft being leaked online in 2010... Since some members including USA signed already on 1 October 2011, realistically it already was to late to stop it.

Maybe if SOPA had happened 1 year earlier, the spillover activism could have stopped ACTA too? :/

</comment><comment><USER12> I've put my translation of another article from GW on

      http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/gazeta-wyborcza-20120203.text

\--jch

</comment><comment><USER13> Suspending ratification is only temporary, there needs to be legislation making much of it illegal.

</comment><comment><USER14> Is there a source for this article that doesn't rely on Google translate?

<comment><USER4> All English sources, that google knows about :

[http://news.google.pl/news/story?ncl=dt6kARLjrYdhuXMdAaT2Ct-...](http://news.google.pl/news/story?ncl=dt6kARLjrYdhuXMdAaT2Ct- xyQLBM&hl=en)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> It's purely PR, since Poland signed ACTA already on Jan 26th with 21 other EU countries. Now ratification is mainly up to the EU Parliament. A "yes" vote in EU will mean 90% of ACTA still applies in Poland, regardless of national ratification.

PM Tusk pretends to be making mends with the outraged internet community. I wonder if anyone will buy that b#llsh!t.

On the other hand, Poland is still pretty awesome to have some actual public debate about ACTA. In most countries, 99% of citizens haven't even heard that acronym, not to mention understanding it or agreeing / opposing it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Well - I'm happy (for now), because the government admitted it's mistake in not consulting ACTA with all the interested parties. For me, it was the most important thing.

As for ACTA being ratified by EU, Polish government admitting that they were wrong will help in killing it in the EU parliament. I can't imagine any polish party voting "FOR" now.

Finally - the thing I'm really hoping that will happen is that the future changes in the law will be consulted with the society. Politicians will think thrice before signing a copyright extension law, or software patent laws.

Edit: but you're right. Our government kept telling us that the signature means nothing, because our Sejm needs to still ratify ACTA. Now I'm hearing that polish Sejm can do jack to stop the ratification, wtf.

<comment><USER16> I sure hope it gets killed in the European Parlament vote, but Poland itself has just 50 seats out of 754 (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament>).</comment></comment></comment>


How does HN banning work?  My submitted posts never appear - <AUTHOR>

Hey HN!
So, I made a login for HN a few weeks back.  I submitted two posts originally (ASK HN posts) and got a few responses on each one.  After that, none of my posts received any attention at all (granted, they could  just have been very boring).  But I recently submitted a post, then logged out and checked the NEW section on HN.  My submitted post was not visible!  It wasn't on the NEW section at all.  When I viewed my profile (whilst not being logged in), I had nothing under the "submitted posts" section of my profile.
How and why was I banned?  I only had about 5 posts overall, and all were questions (no spamming of any kind).
PS- this is a new account <comment><USER2> HN uses silent banning. Basically, when you get banned everything looks normal on your side, but none of your posts or up votes visible to anyone else (unless they have the show dead option turned on in settings).

If you want to, you can see banned accounts by going to your settings and enabling show dead.</comment>


MTGOX Redeem Code Bot - <AUTHOR> http://bitbin.it/CYiP5tuL

<comment><USER2> What is a Mt Gox Redeem code?

From the bitcoin wiki:

"Bitcoins from another Mt. Gox user sent by Mt. Gox redeemable code (A.K.A. coupon) may be deposited and will be available for trading immediately."

So it appears that the source code uses the Mt Gox bitcoin exchange to transfer a coupon from the issuer, e.g. a merchant, to the user, e.g. a customer.

Right?

Bitcoin coupons - what a great way to grow the bitcoin economy!</comment>


U.C. Irvine Rescinds Acceptances for Hundreds of Applicants - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/29/us/uc-irvine-acceptance-rejected.html <comment><USER2> This is a pretty shitty thing to do. When Rutgers let in too many students a whole back, they converted a bunch of common areas to makeshift dorms and put up those who still didn't fit in hotels.

</comment><comment><USER3> Why's everyone in this country so incompetent?

<comment><USER4> This can be explained by trickle down competency, responsibility, and work ethic.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Audio-Responsive, Hackable LED Light - <AUTHOR> http://blog.saikoled.com/post/45813531743/saikoled-myki-led-light-funding-campaign-launch

<comment><USER2> Thank you so much for building this and thank you so much for building this on Open hardware. I can already see a lot of use-cases for this - For example commercial complexes like expensive theaters and 5-star lounges where many people visit everyday. You have your own niche, please don't listen to any of the negative comments (like how this would improve this your life, etc.) It certainly has its place and it would be great if you could drop in your skype, I'd love to have a chat about this (Packaging, Target audience, Marketing, etc)

Cheers, Neya

</comment><comment><USER3> The lights are finally here! How exciting, Brian and Dan. As a visual artist, I've seen first-hand the awesome effects the lights can deliver when viewing artwork. Combining those effects with programmable and responsive audio control is a fantastic next step. The ability for users to program the lights will allow them to enhance creativity in their visual, art, and audio projects.

</comment><comment><USER4> I saw some of these installed at Burning Man last year. They looked great! If I had time to play with blinky lights this would totally be my first choice.

</comment><comment><USER5> This product looks fantastic, congratulations on creating the product and good luck on the production/marketing phase. One question that comes to mind is does it only respond to specific audio frequencies? Like how does it differentiate between someone talking, versus music playing?

<comment><AUTHOR> So this is fairly up to the user, actually. There are several implementations of a FFT like algorithm that run on the Arduino, so any of those should be usable to get frequency data. It's also of course possible to do something like wavelet analysis to pick out more complex patterns. For my example I just did a simple envelope follower with beat detection and a rotating hue, but that's just because I'm (personally) not a great programmer. I think that the right person could make this way, way better than I could on my own =) I see this as one of the great strengths of doing this open source, we can build it together instead of each keeping our secrets like the "big fish".

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I realize you are trying to show off the product in the video, but the lighting on you guys in the video could be a bit less distracting. Still, I absolutely love the idea of a big bright multicolored LED I can control! Good stuff!

<comment><USER7> i totally agree kordless, more mykis set up in white mode would have been good front lighting :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Would there be any chance of getting early access to a developer version, maybe on loan? I'd like to add support for these to my automation equipment (see my profile for a link).

<comment><USER7> cool stuff. we may be running another contest soon, focused on the west coast to give away prototypes. sign up for our announcement list or email us via the website.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Can anyone please explain what is this in plain English? (or rather: for programmers who don't understand hardware but think this is cool)

<comment><USER7> OK> It's a light that you can program over USB using the Arduino IDE. There is already a library/api in development so you can say "light.rgbSend(0x8000,0,0,0xFFFF);" and it will create bright white with half- on red (notice the 16-bit color resolution--not just 0-255).

The microphone input will have software frequency binning so you can--say-- trigger green whenever you hear a bass drum in the music.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Very slick. Though I'm unfamiliar with the space... you say this is cheap, what would a comparable component cost?

<comment><AUTHOR> LED strand lighting is in the $30-40 range, but has no controller or power supply. Professional grade equipment is in the $300 range. There's a range in between, but for context, the LED itself is a $10 part.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This might be tangential, but the project reminds me of <http://www.truonex.com/afro/wristwave>

Imagine walking into a party where everyone's clothes are reacting in different patterns according to the music!

</comment><comment><USER7> Hey does anyone have any ideas for integrating these into a computer science curriculum?

<comment><USER5> The description says that it is "hackable," so in that sense I'm sure you would be able to play with the coding and program in specific color patterns, or play with the timing?

<comment><USER7> Correct. There are a ton of examples already and it's programmable like any Arduino is. What I'm wondering about is what the curriculum goals are in different districts.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I have one of these guys' previous gen devices and it is awesome. Super bright and a very flexible board.

</comment><comment><USER13> Honestly, how would spending $79 on this improve my life?

<comment><USER7> Depends on if you're an artist, or hacker. It greatly simplifies the process of making high-powered LEDs that respond to music. Also, if you buy ~10 you'll be helping a student somewhere because when these are made, a portion are being given away to schools.

<comment><USER13> That actually entirely avoided the question I asked.

<comment><AUTHOR> A better question would be: Why spend money on anything other than cancer research?

Let's answer that question instead. Because it's obviously at all relevant.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Memories – a multipart demoscene demo in only 256 bytes - <AUTHOR> http://www.sizecoding.org/wiki/Memories <comment><USER2> The 256 byte category of demos is inspirational. The idea that a relative handful of symbols that you could write on a sheet of notebook paper and view in its entirety could produce minutes of video and sound is hard to wrap my mind around.

To save anyone else the clicking here's the video

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imquk_3oFf4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imquk_3oFf4)</comment>


obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com - <AUTHOR> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com <comment><USER2> This shouldn't be half as funny as it is. It shouldn't be funny at all.

Then again, a little bit of gallows humor is always in order when facing these things.

<comment><USER3> Our emails certainly seem to be very funny. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Posting this link on Facebook forces me to answer a captcha, what I have never seen before at this point. Then trying to follow the link, the FB-redirect produces an Internal Server Error, so the link to the Tumblr page isn't working. Haha, 500 Code on an simple link, while other links are working.

There must be the NSA behind it! :-D

<comment><USER5> Funny you say that, the same thing happened to me. Where are you located? I'm in Australia. Never ever received a Facebook captcha before when posting a link and to make it more interesting, I was posting the link in a secret group on Facebook which only the invited members would see anyway.

<comment><USER6> Facebook have long used captcha barriers on suspicious links. The nastier of them won't even be able to be posted at all, a blacklist which included the Pirate Bay for a short period.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> "We wanted a president that listens to all Americans – Now we have one" (Jay Leno)

<comment><USER8> This pic cracked me up: [http://www.tickld.com/images/content/131246.jpg](http://www.tickld.com/images/content/131246.jpg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is one of those times when it's both funny and makes you cry

</comment><comment><USER10> This is the best one: [http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/image/52498105224](http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/image/52498105224)

<comment><USER11> I'd say this one is :) [http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/image/52498185767](http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/image/52498185767)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> "Yo guys, i really like snooping on emails lately, can you bring me some more emails to read? kthxbye"

NSA: We 'll do our best Mr. President

</comment><comment><USER13> Finally. Something funny. Ok, now I feel like I can get back to programming... something I've been putting off all day. The world is fubar, but it's still alright.

<comment><USER14> Here. More: [http://xkcd.com/1223/](http://xkcd.com/1223/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Just like the 'kim-jong il looking at things'! :)

</comment><comment><USER16> Hillariously, previously submitted -> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5851063](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5851063)

Can't say I mind seeing this multiple times :)

<comment><USER17> How was it possible to post the exact same link multiple times?

<comment><USER18> Probably the 'no duplicate link' exception doesn't apply to sites like tumblr where different subdomains likely belong to different and unrelated people.

ie:

hello.facebook.com and sayhi.facebook.com belongs to the same entity but you can't say the same for

hello.tumblr.com and sayhi.tumblr.com

I'm jx making a guess though

<comment><USER17> Actually I tried to post this URL earlier today and was redirected to the "original" (whatsoever) submission. That's what made me curious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I keep trying to share this on facebook and facebook makes me enter CAPCHA and then breaks my link. Conspiracy Y/N?

<comment><USER20> Same. A lot of people are sharing the link, maybe FB's spam protection is kicking in?

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> A picture says more than 1024 words, and its funny, thanks a lot.

</comment><comment><USER22> This is disarming the seriousness of the government recording all your internet activity.

Too soon.

<comment><USER23> I understand your point _however_ we could be seeing the images that will define Mr Obama's presidency in the making.

<comment><USER24> I was thinking the same thing, images like this could definitely be how Obama's presidency gets remembered.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> haha! most ppl in these pics are actually showing him their computers, cell phones, etc.

The ridic thing is that this has been happening since the beginning of electronic footprints and suddenly now ppl are outraged by this, but not by the nonsense they happily put up on facebook. w/e

<comment><USER25> It seems that readers are misunderstanding what bothers me about this mess. If we are this upset about it, we should be pushing to reform the Patriot Act (etc.) not down voting my comment about the lack of privacy in social networds. We should be making our Google, Facebook, Tweeter, etc. accounts safer, by demanding security and privacy and by ourselves taking steps to achieve that privacy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Seriously guys, how much of this is Obama's fault? Isn't it Bush that we all should be complaining to?

<comment><USER27> Obama has been president for like 5 years now. If he didn't approve, he would have stopped it.</comment></comment>


Toulouse-Lautrec, poster child of Bohemia - <AUTHOR> https://spectator.us/toulouse-lautrec-poster-child/ <comment><USER2> 5,000 tickets at $75 a pop. In Barnum's day.

That's why he's the Greatest Showman.

</comment><comment><USER3> Not a single mention of Bohemia [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia)

<comment><USER4> They're of course not talking about the original Bohemia.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> For whatever it's worth (probably not much) The Spectator is a right-leaning outfit, something like Fox News. This is an interesting article, but I'd be cautious about clicking through anything 'related' or whatever. Not that it's wrong, necessarily, it's just very slanted.

<comment><USER6> The Spectator is right-leaning, but it can't be called "something like Fox News", as this very article (which would never appear on Fox News) demonstrates.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Co-founder wants to leave messaging startup because of GDPR - <AUTHOR> We are a building a messaging platform ina specific vertical which allows users to exchange text/photo and voice messages. We have hired a lawyer to write a privacy policy and terms of use but they have not been updated for GDPR yet. However, my (technical) co-founder thinks we are leaving ourselves open to litigation because of how are system is designed. When a message is deleted, only the user's access to the message is deleted. The message is preserved until all recipients have deleted it at which time the full contents of the message are permanently deleted. This was done for efficiency, otherwise we would need to keep a full copy of each message for each recipient.  To me this isn't much different from email: when you delete an email you only delete your copy, not other people's.<p>We are about a month from launch (we have both been working on it part time for 6 months) but my co-founder is having second thoughts.  He doesn't want to spend the time and money to bring us into GDPR compliance. I have been learning to code and I feel I could maintain our current code but not redesign it all to comply with GDPR.  I am hoping some more experienced startup folks can provide some advice about what I should do <comment><USER2> Of course I'm missing all kinds of key context, but going off of your description I'd seriously consider letting him leave. Come up with some sort of deal that you're both satisfied by - money, a loan, converting his shares into non voting shares, whatever, but let him go.

I say this as the technical co-founder of an EU based messaging startup with the vast majority of users and customers being subject to the GDPR. If your co-founder finds a little bit of legislation to be so troublesome that he wants to quit, then he's going to be worthless when things _actually_ get difficult. Even if the worst case is true, in legal terms, and you decide that you're forced to redesign the system to make the right to be forgotten (and while I'm not a lawyer I really doubt that that is a sane explanation of the GDPR), then it's just some refactoring work. It's not fundamental to the design or business model of your app (you're a messaging app, not a "sell user data app") - it's just an efficiency thing. If your co-founder can't even deal with that, then I worry that he defibitely can't deal with the emotional rollercoaster that will start when you actually launch.

That said, and IANAL, but I really wouldn't sweat it. If you can run a custom query to delete user data when requested then you're all good. Use that to see how many right-to-be-forgotten requests you actually get and consider automating things only after you know that it's going to pay off.

<comment><USER3> > ven if the worst case is true, in legal terms, and you decide that you're > forced to redesign the system to make the right to be forgotten (and while > I'm not a lawyer I really doubt that that is a sane explanation of the > GDPR), then it's just some refactoring work. It's not fundamental to the > design or business model of your app (you're a messaging app, not a "sell > user data app")

Exactly. Unless the business model is built around collecting and reselling user data, then (without anymore context) it sounds like this should be a (slight) refactor, not an entire redesign.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm not a GDPR expert, so please confirm with your lawyers, but my reading of [https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/](https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/) is that you only need to remove the personal data, not old messages which still serve a purpose (they're a part of communication channel). Specifically, none of the grounds from point 1 apply:

a) data is still necessary (part of message chain)

b) consent wasn't necessary, the message was required for the messaging component of the service

c) again, necessary processing is excluded

d) it wasn't unlawful

e) I'm assuming you're not in one of the member states and this doesn't apply

f) it's not related to child consent

If anyone disagrees here, I'd be really interested to know why.

(Sethammons is right though that the headers / metadata would be likely covered)

<comment><USER5> Art.5(1)(e) says "Personal data shall be kept in a form which permits identification of data subjects for no longer than is necessary for the purposes for which the personal data are processed".

The messages themselves constitute personal data, as defined in art.4(1). Data doesn't need to be tagged with someone's name, address and social security number to be personal data - if you could even hypothetically identify someone based on that data, then it's personal data. Even if the users of this service never divulge any personal information about themselves in the content of their messages under any circumstances, they could still be identified by stylometry.

There's a reasonable argument that retention of old messages is a necessary feature of the product, but I'd be strongly inclined to delete everything from the servers as soon as it's delivered. Old messages stored on the user's devices aren't your problem as long as your involvement in the processing of those messages was lawful. I'd also be strongly inclined to implement end-to- end encryption unless there's an overwhelming reason not to, because it adds a valuable layer of protection for both you and your users.

[https://gdpr-info.eu/art-5-gdpr/](https://gdpr-info.eu/art-5-gdpr/)

[https://gdpr-info.eu/art-4-gdpr/](https://gdpr-info.eu/art-4-gdpr/)

<comment><USER6> I would follow other prominent players in the space. When I delete my tweets, are those retweets and replies also deleted? When I delete my FB or Whatsapp account, are my messages deleted from recipients accounts?

As a lean startup, I wouldn't pay my own lawyer to figure out what hundreds of well paid lawyers have already decided.

You could write tech support for these companies and ask exactly how their GDPR compliance works. I'm sure they'll be happy if not legally obligated to tell you.

<comment><USER5> >I would follow other prominent players in the space.

Facebook can afford to play fast-and-loose with the rules. They have an army of lawyers waiting to contest any ruling from a supervisory authority. They have an army of developers ready to redesign their product if they're ordered to do so. They have an army of DBAs and CSRs to manage deletion requests and subject access requests.

If you're running a startup that collects and processes lots of personal data and your resources are rather more limited than Facebook, it's sensible to interpret the GDPR cautiously. The more data you collect and store, the greater your potential liabilities. We're habituated to hoarding personal data, because the cost of storage is effectively nil and it might be useful at some point in the future. GDPR makes Schneier's argument that "data is a toxic asset" into a business reality.

[https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/03/data_is_a_tox...](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/03/data_is_a_toxic.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Your co-founder's problem is that he thinks the GDPR is a law, in the sense of "a document a judge can use to objectively determine whether an action is or isn't lawful". The GDPR is a statement of general principles, with the implication that if you behave more or less in that spirit then the regulators won't go after you. If you are accustomed to the rule of law, then you won't like the GDPR.

But you don't need the rule of law. Myanmar locked some Reuters reporters up with no convincing legal basis; and yet I can visit the country with no special fear that I'll get locked up, because I know more or less what their government likes and dislikes, and I know that I'll stay well away from the line. You can do that too. The EU obviously won't come after you for the email deletion issue, just as Myanmar obviously won't lock up a visiting businessman who sticks to business--there are too many easier targets.

Your lawyers can't help you, because this isn't law. They'll just say "it depends", because that's all the text of the law allows them to say. (Although, I do enjoy watching people who seem to be general proponents of the GDPR confidently take contradictory positions here.) I seem to be the only one who think this degradation of the rule of law--from the EU, a region that basically invented the concept--is bad; but even I agree that it's no major obstacle to doing business.

<comment><USER8> I think you've nearly defined "law" out of existence? Law doesn't work like math or computer code. It's always subject to interpretation and lawyers will generally give you advice about what to expect based on experience, not guarantees.

There are some areas more settled than others, but this is a continuum, not a crisp boundary.

<comment><USER9> That's true but a part of the general political tension between parties is, at least in theory, to what extent law is interpreted by judges vs written by politicians.

The theory is that laws should be written by politicians and merely applied to specific cases by judges, because politicians are accountable and judges are not.

When you have laws that state virtually nothing and rely entirely on interpretation, that's the same thing as moving power away from elected political bodies and into unaccountable elites. This is, not coincidentally, exactly what the entire EU project seems to be constantly engaged in, so it's perhaps no surprise that the EU particularly enjoys passing vague laws that move power away from national politicians and towards the Commission and ECJ (the ECJ judges are appointed by the same process that decides the makeup of the Commission).

<comment><USER10> > That's true but a part of the general political tension between parties is, > at least in theory, to what extent law is interpreted by judges vs written > by politicians.

In the US, at least, that's true in the rhetoric of one of the parties, but the opposing party doesn't argue the opposite side, just argues that the side that claims it is an issue is hypocritical in its rhetorical stance.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The Right to Erasure is not absolute. A Right to Erasure request can be denied if you can describe an "Overriding Legitimate Interest." This has to be stronger than a regular legitimate interest that enables processing in the first place, but it's possible. The specifics will definitely require a lawyer, but I think it's possible to describe an overriding legitimate interest that allows you to retain message contents.

Denying a request is not a simple yes/no. You can delete some data but not others, or delete data under certain conditions but not others. The principle of Data Minimization still applies to your overriding legitimate interest: only retain the data that is strictly necessary for that specific interest, which is likely less than the original data necessary.

Probably the trickiest issue is going to be "what if the user sent a message that contains PII?"

<comment><USER12> Does the Right To Erase apply to archived backups? I.E. we delete an account, but it still exists in database dumps backed up to S3.

<comment><USER9> Nobody knows. Lawyers seem to split 50/50 on the issue, like everything else GDPR related.

I think even asking questions like this is missing the point by now. See the discussion above. The GDPR doesn't say if backups are OK or for how long. They might be or might not be depending on whether a random EU official believes your justification is "legitimate".

In other words, stay in the Commission's good books and you'll be fine. Take a position the Commission doesn't like and suddenly your backups might not be so legitimate after all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Short and sweet. Let him go. founders and execs need to be able to weather the storm (any storm not just gdpr). this is regardless of whether you can actually be compliant or not. your co-founder is too risk averse, let him go.

that said, you need actual legal advice here. it doesn't sound to me like your current design can be compliant but you need expert counsel to decide. then if the answer is no, are you prepared to change your design?

also, you have "been learning to code?". no, you need to bring on an experienced person if you want to deal with personal data. sorry, that's table stakes in 2018.

</comment><comment><USER14> In fact, you can pay customers of your competitors $100 to ask them to request erasure of data from their competitor. Have fun!

<comment><USER15> This is the sort of thing that worries me. Are we going to see a whole bunch of GDPR trolls show up and try to extort businesses for money?

<comment><USER16> One of the few things you _dont_ have to worry about with GDPR is private firms trolling you.

The regulatory agencies are an open question...

<comment><USER9> Private firms can't sue you for GDPR violations but they can encourage customers to file requests that are expensive to deal with. It's not just over-broad erasure requests, it's the right to get a data dump of everything the company knows about you (this is like the worst case for big firms that don't have joined up IT systems).

I doubt private firms actually _will_ engage in that sort of trolling though, at least not at any volume. NGOs and activists on the other hand, I fully expect that. They're always looking for ways to punish firms who they dislike. Normally that's restricted to boycotts, in recent times they've experimented with attacking advertisers for companies that rely on advertising ... GDPR requests will likely become a new battleground.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Are the messages stored on your own servers or on the users' own devices?

If they're on your servers, it should not be necessary to keep multiple copies of the same message. You could make it so that if the sender deletes a message, it is removed from the database and becomes inaccessible to recipients.

If the messages are stored on users' own devices and not on your own servers, then that is a different situation and is more like email.

<comment><AUTHOR> They are stored on our servers. The problem is, not all users will want the message deleted just because one of the recipients does. This creates a conflict with the GDPRs right to have information deleted. Recipient A might want the message deleted but recipients B and C may not

<comment><USER17> Suppose you have a Message_Recipients table in your database with the following columns: message_id, recipient_user_id, deleted.

If a particular message has three recipients, then it will have three entries in this table. The 'deleted' column is a boolean that is initially false. But when a recipient deletes their copy, 'deleted' becomes true and the message will be hidden in the UI for that recipient only.

If it's the sender who is deleting the message, then just delete it in the Messages table, and no one else will be able to view it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Our current implementation is similar to this, bit if the sender deletes a message, don't the recipients have a right to retain a message that was sent to them? For their own records I mean. This is what's causing the difficulty. A sender's right to delete the message vs a recipient's right to keep copies of messages sent to them.

<comment><USER5> _> don't the recipients have a right to retain a message that was sent to them?_

No. There is no "right to retention" in the GDPR. Users have the right to access any data you hold that relates to them (with some exceptions), but you are under no obligation to retain data. GDPR requires you to do the exact opposite - delete (or thoroughly anonymise) data as soon as possible.

Art.5(1)(e) says "Personal data shall be kept in a form which permits identification of data subjects for _no longer than is necessary_ for the purposes for which the personal data are processed". If you're aiming for maximum GDPR compliance, it would be sensible to delete the messages from your server as soon as they have been delivered to the recipients. You're a messaging service, not an archival service; storing the messaging data or metadata indefinitely is contrary to the principles of the GDPR and exposes you to liability if that data is ever leaked.

I'd also question why you need plaintext access to user messages in the first place. End-to-end encryption protects you and your users. If you can't access the data, you can't inadvertently breach the GDPR.

[https://gdpr-info.eu/art-5-gdpr/](https://gdpr-info.eu/art-5-gdpr/)

<comment><USER5> Would any of the people who downvoted my comment like to explain their point of disagreement? If you believe my statement to be factually wrong, it would be more useful to correct it rather than simply downvoting it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The easiest solution is to block access to EU citizens.

</comment><comment><USER19> My understanding is that you have to be able to remove PII like usernames, email addresses, and such. The actual message sent to other recipients is not covered, but the envelope information would be. For envelope look up (sender, recipient), have those as hashes that are in a look up table. If the sender sends you a GDPR request, delete them from your hash look up and display "user deleted" as the "from" user on the message.

Obviously, run this through your lawyer as I am not one.

<comment><USER5> The GDPR is not concerned with "personally identifying information", but "personal data". It defines the latter very broadly, viz:

 _'personal data' means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person ('data subject'); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;_

Even if they're completely stripped of metadata, instant messages are highly likely to contain information that could indirectly identify the sender or recipient.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> IINM, un-processed contents of encrypted messages do not constitute personally identifying information (PII), and if a user deleting their account or deleting a message deletes the correlation between the message and their user/account/id from your servers.

The complicated part is your intent to preserve it for the other participants in the thread. I think it's ok to allow a message author to cause their messages to be deleted from all other users as well (maybe leave a <deleted> bubble in its place). If an entire thread or account is deleted, you can just remove the association to the user and preserve the messages itself.

It's a bit messy the more you want to preserve despite a user's wish to GDPR- bomb their data, but I don't think untenable.

</comment><comment><USER21> Think of it in terms of sunk costs. If your business model is still sound, redo your financial analysis from today forward. Estimate the costs to alter the design as well as probability and impacts of litigation. Then forecast those costs out to see where your breakeven point is.

</comment><comment><USER22> You are hearing a lot of different advice about what GDPR compliance means, and until that is settled (or proven so unsettled as to be unknowable), you lack a key factor in your business decision. My advice is to consult an attorney who you trust to be knowledgable about GDPR compliance and find out what exactly you need to do to become compliant, or to determine what the options are and what level of comfort you have with them. Then you can make the call whether you want to spend the required effort.

The upside here is that this investment also opens the possibility of giving your co-founder the confidence that they need to stay with the project, should the answer be that the compliance work is small / simple.

</comment><comment><USER23> Let him go. You're going to face business killing issues like this ALL the time.. several times a year. If he's already showing signs of quitting, it's only a matter of time before he does.

Save yourself some time and heartache - find a new co-founder

</comment><comment><USER24> Not knowing much about your startup and where it is based and the user base that you are looking to tackle. Being in finance my company deals with GDPR and various other regulatory requirements, that doesn't mean you don't develop a product. May be he needs to better understand the requirements. [https://www.eugdpr.org/key-changes.html](https://www.eugdpr.org/key- changes.html)

Get a good lawyer and have the CTO focus on delivering technical solution after all that his job, if the going gets tough and he gets weak knees get him out...

Ring fence your product to region for launching so you don't get side swiped...good luck.

</comment><comment><USER25> First the obligatory: I'm not a lawyer or expert on GDPR.

My question is if your app simply passes on messages between users of the app and doesn't store these messages how can you be held accountable for what's being held on the users device, even if it is a different persons message? Your app has simply processed that users data with their consent, at the time, and passed it on as they wanted.

The other issue, if the answer to the above is: 'yes', is does the GDPR expect you to be able to go into a user's phone and delete content from their phone at the request of another user? Surely that's not legal?

Like I say I'm no expert, simply asking questions.

</comment><comment><USER26> Sounds like a get out clause from the co-founder.

How many requests do you actually think you'll get in a year? Some industries mandate data retention which overrides GDPR.

Is your business model going to implode if 0.01% of messages are deleted with due cause? You are only liable if you fail to complete the request in time. Plus how much longer until you have a GDPR friendly agreement which lets users know once a message is sent it is no longer personal data? If the sender gets deleted the recipient would see from 'deleted user'. This is kind of how stackoverflow.com do it.

GDPR is extra work but it's not shut up shop work.

</comment><comment><USER27> This is pretty basic:

a) By sending a message, the user is consenting to the contents of the message being delivered.

b) The user is entitled to request that you (the messaging service) deletes their details but you have a legitimate business reason for retaining the message details (ie. someone else that you are serving is using them).

That said, if your co-founder isn't more committed than this, then let him go—just make sure you have a legal document stating that he gives up all rights.

<comment><USER27> I should add that I have worked on a messaging service recently, and that is the advice that a qualified UK-based solicitor provided in their case.

I doubt your case is any different.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I don't see what is the problem to delete user's messages at their request. Just replace its text with "message deleted" for example. It doesn't require anything advanced.

It seems that your co-founder just doesn't like GDPR and users' rights. It is a political, not a technical problem.

If someone will post something that violates US laws (for example, terrorism- related content or child porn), will you refuse to delete it too?

</comment><comment><USER29> > When a message is deleted, only the user's access to the message is deleted.

It's going to take all of 30 seconds until someone sues Google and asks for them to delete sent messages from someone else's inbox. Regardless of whether or not what your doing is legal (and I think you're in the clear), you're not going to be the test case here.

<comment><USER30> You can't sue for perceived GDPR issues.

<comment><USER31> You can sue for anything. It may be dismissed for legal reasons, but that sets precedent. It may be settled without setting a legal precedent. In either case, there are material and immaterial costs involved.

<comment><USER30> > You can sue for anything

Sure, but that's nothing to do with GDPR and can be done today.

Tacking GDPR onto a frivolous suit doesn't add anything and also doesn't set any precedent.

The law clearly sets out how to handle GDPR complaints, and it's not via the courts.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I'm confused. Do you have anyone with technical capabilities on the team to realize that the changes needed are not difficult to implement? That's a database delete. If you're advertising your app as being secure and etc. then don't do that. Be honest to your users as what you're serving.

</comment><comment><USER33> I believe that if you make _crystal clear_ to the sender that his messages are _publicly available_ to all parties until everyone deletes the message and also include this to your Privacy Rules, you'll be fine. Doesn't seem like a big deal.

</comment><comment><USER34> Take some litigation insurance from the company that follows your gdpr deployment so that he has not to worry about liabilities

</comment><comment><USER35> GDPR is a train-wreck. I'm fully behind the motives, but like many high-level initiatives it has the effect of further tilting the playing field in favour of incumbents who have the financial and legal resources to accommodate it. Europe needs to rein in Facebook, but not at the cost of any hope of the next Facebook being European.</comment>


Hi HN: Are you interested in online gaming? - <AUTHOR>

I am almost done building a new type of online game (think more like gambling, less like checkers) and I'd like to get some advice from the community on how I should get the word out when I'm done. I've thought about using affiliate programs. What do you think? <comment><USER2> Is it a game with profit-earning potential involved for the players, that kind of gambling? I have to say affiliate programs in that context would make me nervous of the sketch-factor.

If it's good, it will spread well via word of mouth - especially when starting out.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, players have the potential to make money with every round. But the expectancy is in my favor.</comment></comment>


How many on the planet have at least one bitcoin? - <AUTHOR>

Clearly less than 12 000 000... Indeed most of the seven billion people alive now will never be able to own one bitcoin. <comment><USER2> [http://bitcoincharts.com/](http://bitcoincharts.com/)</comment>


Trader Joe's Is Not Your Average Business (2002) - <AUTHOR> One day a few years ago, a guy at a Boston financial firm called up Trader Joe's headquarters and said he'd like to tour a store with a group of visiting Japanese investors. The brass at Trader Joe's was blunt: "You can't come." Not "We'd rather you didn't," or "Please don't." The visit was officially forbidden.
This led to a predictable go-round about it being a free country and all, and Trader Joe's finally said okay, okay, you can come, but you don't get a tour. And as the investment company guy tells it, the tension in the air during the visit was thick enough to cut with a machete.
Well, you probably can't blame the folk at Trader Joe's. They've got a phenomenal thing going, and don't want to give it all away. Some observers think that sales per square foot at Trader Joe's are hovering at about $1,000 -- twice the level of typical supermarkets. And with between about 70% to 85% of its products being private label (depending on who you ask), Trader Joe's has reached a benchmark others don't even dream about on good nights.
Fast Turns
Last year the Pasadena, Calif .-based chain's stores -- believed to be approaching 200 units primarily on the East and West coasts -- turned in about $1 billion in sales, with profits said to be just shy of spectacular. Stores have no service departments and small footprints -- usually about 9,500 square feet "to keep the shopping experience intimate," some say. The total SKU count, designed for fast-turn of high-margin items, is generally estimated at 2,500 to 3,000. (Trader Joe's has in the past admitted to having "more than 800" private label products, but how many "more" is an open question.)
By now, you may have noticed some vagueness on the numbers. Sorry, can't help you. It's because trading partners, consultants, competitors, analysts and about 13,000 Web sites all offer different numbers and viewpoints about this extremely private -- and much loved -- company.
Actually, in some ways, Trader Joe's is an open book. Go to their Web site, (www.traderjoes.com) and if you drill down far enough, you're likely to find most anything. But some details are still kept pretty lowkey. A Trader Joe's flier says simply that the firm was sold in 1979 by its founder, Joe Coulombe, to a private, family-run company. True, but it still surprises people who didn't already know that the buyers were German billionaires Karl and Theo Albrecht, owners of the ALDI food chain. (We hear ALDI has the good sense to leave Trader Joe's alone.)
Anybody will tell you the folk at Trader Joe's are real regular. The brass, despite their dust-up with our financier pals from Boston, are the sort you'd be proud to count as friends. And in the stores? Cashiers will leave their registers to help you find Trader Joe's Organic Moral Fiber Cereal or Trader Jose's salsa. Clerks in Hawaiian shirts may actually be singing as they stock the shelves (honest!), and will readily offer their personal thoughts on Trader Giotto's Artichoke Antipasto or even the chain's official stance on the sale of duck meat. (And if that isn't good enough, they'll direct you to the flier, signed by Chairman/CEO Dan Bane, that explains how the chain is requiring duck farmers to certify that they are cruelty-free growers.)
A Misguided Quest
Clearly, Trader Joe's is not your average Joe. (Stole that line from www.thestandard.com, thank you!). Now, for those of you who may think we've finally lost our marbles, please understand that we're on a perhaps misguided quest to copy the writing style of Trader Joe's Fearless Flyer. Sort of. Nobody can exactly copy anything Trader Joe's does, which explains its success but not its anxiety about privacy.
The Fearless Flyer (Manufacturers don't pay to have products in it! But the product had better sell! Or else!) is Trader Joe's primary communication vehicle with its customers. No TV, no high-low, BOGO and off you go. Just sheer communication and fun, in-store and mailed locally to "Resident."
Bill Bishop, president of Willard Bishop Consulting, Barrington, Ill., says if you want to understand Trader Joe's, you have to sit down with the Fearless Flyer for an hour or so, and as usual he's right. "Let it sort of flow over you," he says (he must have been in California recently) "and you'll get it. It's pretty cool, like the President's Choice newsletter without the chutzpah pushiness. Anybody who is serious about understanding Trader Joe's should go to school on it. It will also help them understand that it won't be easy to respond competitively."
Curious? Here's a sampling from the 24-page-long May issue of Fearless Flyer: "The Good Ship Trader Joe's... Our mission is to offer the best food and beverage values you can find and the information you need to make informed buying decisions... Someone's in the Galley with Trader Joe... Our tasting panel samples every product before we buy it. We evaluate each product on the basis of cost, flavor and relevancy to our customers. If we don't like it, we don't buy it. Does it represent value? If we can't sell it for a great everyday low price, we're simply not interested! Does it meet our customer's desire for great taste or interesting food trends? Reel it in!"
"Seaworthy Buying Wisdom... We always try to buy direct from manufacturers (not middlemen!) We buy in large volume, bargain hard and manage our costs carefully (no trips to Tahiti for Fearless Flyer writers, for instance.) We always pay our suppliers in full and on time so they like doing business with us. These strong relationships enable us to secure terrific deals on high quality goods."
There's more, of course, about the product guarantee (refund or exchange) and all, along with lots of information about products in an equally chatty style. You'll learn about ginger almond scented oatmeal exfoliant soap, farm-raised American buffalo ($4.79 per pound) and other stuff. Ubiquitous fliers in the stores explain everything from the chain's policy to prohibit artificial flavors, colors or preservatives in its private label products, to how to buy and use olive oil.
"Trader Joe's has fun with its private label and doesn't take itself too seriously," says Michael Langenborg, chief strategist, Whole Health Marketing Group, Santa Rosa, Calif. "All their vitamins are Trader Darwin, with the tagline 'for the Survival of the Fittest.' The Hispanic line is Trader Jose's, and the Italian line is Trader Giotto. God forbid that Safeway or Albertson's would do that. But Trader Joe's does, and they know how to make a fun experience.
Trader Joe's glib, tongue-in-cheek style isn't gimmickry -- it reflects a genuine, fun personality to which customers can relate, according to Gretchen Gogesch, principal, Integrale Consulting, Chicago. She says Trader Joe's has integrated various facets of its corporate culture into one cohesive voice, and virtually lives its brand.
"This explains why other companies can't copy them," she says. "A lot of companies have well-crafted vision statements on their walls, but few can execute against that vision, much less have the kind of relationship with customers that makes Trader Joe's successful."
As Gogesch sees it, most retailers pay lip service to having a real relationship with their customers, but Trader Joe's lives and dies by it. This personal style extends to the chain's buyers, she says. Last summer, Gogesch wrote an article for PL Buyer's sister publication, Confectioner magazine, based on an interview she did (how'd that happen?) with Marie Forsyth, product manager for snacks and candy at Trader Joe's.
Tinkering Together
"She (Forsyth) emphasized the importance of being able to work with the supplier hand-in-hand in sort of on an artisan basis, working with small batches and tinkering together to find right product," Gogesch says. This illustrates a point, she notes: Trader Joe's buyers uses their personal relationships with customers to find out what they want, and then roll up their sleeves with suppliers to get the product right. To help this process along, Trader Joe's managers are required to read customer correspondence and get out in the stores and talk with people.
"A lot of organizations don't do that," she says. "They look at their own needs first, and then try to sell whatever they can make to the customer. It takes guts to truly take the approach of Trader Joe's. You have to resist market forces to dumb down your products or make them appeal to the masses. But a desk is a very dangerous place from which to view the world," says Gogesch.
Observers agree that Trader Joe's gives new meaning to the term "destination retailer," with many shoppers driving an hour or more to get to their nearest store. And there are many different opinions about what is behind the universally recognized "mystique" of Trader Joe's.
"Part of the big mystique is that they deliberately come off like a small, unsophisticated grocery operation or specialty shop," says Stephan Kouzomis, founder and CEO, Entrepreneurial Consulting Inc./MMSG, Louisville, Ky. "There's eye-to-eye contact and service, and shoppers always know there is going to be something new there -- whether private label or branded."
Bishop says Trader Joe's truly focuses on the quality of its private label products, and makes a special effort to have items that are unique. "I know it comes as no surprise, but Trader Joe's really does offer something different. And they also are able to authentically get people to feel the store cares about them. Perhaps it's because they are totally -- no kidding -- totally focused on the customer. And they're streamlined, so it all works."
You'd get agreement there from Frank Dell, president, Dellmart & Company, Stamford, Conn. Dell believes Trader Joe's has gone to school on European private label, perhaps by studying Sainsbury's old model of finding which product the consumer wants, and then finding a manufacturer to make it. By doing this, plus making sure the products are unique, the chain finds real differentiation, he believes. "Having genuinely unique products means they're not so much in a directly competitive price baffle," he says. "It's never apples to apples, it's always apples to apples with a twist. It's a truly brilliant way to run a private label program. And like so few retailers today, they make their money on the sell, not the buy."
'An Adventure'
Ben Ball, VP, Dechert-Hampe & Co., Northbrook, Ill., says the chain "is the food equivalent of a Williams Sonoma or Bath & Body Works. They make shopping an adventure. Central to this is that they understand branding in every sense of the word. Not just the standard corporate badging and consumer communication stuff. I'm talking about a fully-integrated brand persona, right down to having the name of the store include the personal description of the owner (Trader Joe) himself. Add to that the cedar store accents, the nets, the multicolor chalkboards, the label styles and, perhaps most important, the products themselves. Everything fits the theme!" Ball says.
But Trader Joe's does not fit into any of the usual definitions of retailer types, according to Steve French, senior VP/Managing Partner, The Natural Marketing Institute, Harleysville, Pa. Above all else, he says, Trader Joe's offers an entertaining shopping experience rather than shopping drudgery. The merchandise mix includes enough unique private label items interspersed with truckloads of branded in-and-outs to keep the shopper content to treasure hunt and make impulse buys, he says. This is quite different from stores where shoppers are more likely to arrive with a shopping list.
John J. Ruf, a principal at The New England Consulting Group, Westport, Conn., notes that "Trader Joe's program is unique because it started out as a private label retailer rather than as a supermarket for other brands. This is not a subtle difference in that consumers fully understand that the Trader Joe's label means great products at a good value. Supermarkets, on the other hand, use private label programs simply to provide the consumer a somewhat discounted price versus a name brand of the same product.
"Second, although Trader Joe's does have some similar products to branded items in supermarkets, many of their products are unique in terms of recipes as well as packaging and sizing.
"Third, it appears that many of Trader Joe's items are perceived as somewhat gourmet, yet at a reasonable price, thus further differentiating themselves from everyday supermarket branded and private label items," Ruf says.
"The ALDI ownership always struck me as strange," says Al McClain, publisher/founder of RetailWire.com, Stamford, Conn. "ALDI is about as low-end as you can get and a truly bare bones shopping experience, and Trader Joe's is on the other end of the scale. Yet Trader Joe's prices are excellent -- and they have great customer service. There's always something new there -- frequently they're sampling two or three items."
"Trader Joe's is a specialty retailer who happens to be in the food business," says Bruce Poole, principal, Strategic Business Solutions, Richland, Mich. He says the chain's private label performs double duty. "It reinforces the exclusiveness of the shopping experience for the consumer and also forms the bedrock of competitive defensibility. A competitor can open a similar store across the street, selling the same categories of merchandise, but he can't offer the Trader Joe's brand."
Trader Joe's item selection is very well thought out, with heavy input from shoppers, notes Langenborg. Store managers, he notes, have autonomy to choose -- and de-list -- products for their own marketing areas, and there are no forced planograms.
He adds that the chain also tests branded products to see how well they sell in the stores, and then approaches the manufacturer to make a private label version. The manufacturer's awkward choice is to do it, or let his competitor have the business. (Not to give them a free plug, but several observers say Trader Joe's has a penchant for knocking off or tweaking items from Nature's Path Foods, Delta, British Columbia.)
Trader Joe's price points are very competitive, especially when compared to similar items in natural food stores, Langenborg says, noting that "An almond nut butter they sell for $3.49 might be $6.29 at a large natural foods retailer. Trader Joe's is all about volume. They keep item selections very narrow, and they pick the best sellers from people's lines. They don't charge slotting fees or have a bunch of programs that erode margins, and they pay extremely quickly. Financial folk in manufacturer circles love them."
No Slotting
The chain doesn't put up a lot of barriers to entry, adds Langenborg. "No slots or TV ads -- you just have to pass the taste committee and then get in and perform. If they like your product, they'll put it in the Fearless Flyer, and give you a good shelf position."
So far, Trader Joe's essentially leaves wine brands alone, with little if any private label. But it has very heavy private label penetration in refrigerated and especially frozen foods. Local bakers are generally sought out to put the Trader Joe's label on breads in different markets, observers say. In choosing where to heavy-up on a national brand, categories are weighed on a cost accounting basis in an effort to reduce the burden against private label items when possible. This may (or may not!) explain why you won't find much in the way of private label cereals or energy bar-type items at the chain.
One of the keys to Trader Joe's success is the staff in the stores, who are known invariably for their courtesy, product knowledge and a sense of fun. Gogesch praises the chain for how it recruits and develops its workers, or "crew members" as Trader Joe's calls them.
"Employees are drawn to the chain by its set of values," she says. "And don't underestimate how savvy Trader Joe's has been in how they structure what they offer to employees. They have an excellent menu of offerings and benefits, and they promote from within -- you truly have an opportunity to build a career with them."
"They incentivize the heck out of their store managers," says Langenborg, noting that six-figure incomes are not unusual. He adds that in-store shrinkage is low because employees feel like part of a team and are less likely to steal.
"The people in the stores really know the products, and they've usually tried them," says Kevin Coupe, content guy, www.MorningNewsBeat.com, Darien, Conn. "Occasionally, they'll see something new in my basket and they'll say, 'Hey, I haven't tried that. How is it?' That's remarkable in the food business, which is a shame."
Coupe suspects the store clerks are paid better than at other food chains, but also points out that without service departments the stores' manpower needs are not as great as traditional supermarkets. He adds that Trader Joe's training is thorough, and that when new stores open in the East, they often bring in managers from the West coast to do the start-up. The manager of the Darien, Conn., store, near Coupe's house, recently moved back to his home base in California.
French notes that the shopping experience is greatly enhanced by the employees, who make shoppers feel comfortable and more willing to try new items.
And just who is the target shopper for Trader Joe's? New England Consulting Group's Ruf says "Their portolio of items and their themes suggest they are appealing to an interesting group of niches rather than one consumer segment. These include the health food segment, tree hugger (environmentally concerned) segment, the discount shopper and the weekend gourmet chef segment. Taken together, these represent a fairly sizeable group of consumers, some of which may fit into more than one of the segments."
Ruf continues that Trader Joe's shoppers may shop supermarkets for basics and weekly purchases, but also prefer to shop every day or two for their evening meal. These shoppers may be buying for a small family -- or just themselves -- which means that Trader Joe's could also be appealing to the singles segment, whether they are 18-25 or 65-85, he says.
On a recent visit to a Trader Joe's near him, Art Williams, a former Dean Foods executive who is now a consultant in Napervile, Ill., saw evidence that might confirm these thoughts. On a visit to a store in his area, he noticed that most shoppers seem to prefer hand baskets over shopping carts, and were purchasing only a few items.
"The store reminded us most of Whole Foods, which caters to health-minded consumers," he says. He saw emphasis on healthy, organic, high-fiber, low-fat, soy, Kosher and environmentally friendly items.
"Oddly, the most notable categories that did not have Trade Joe's private label representation were milk and ice cream, the two categories that are among the highest in private label penetration in most stores."
This factor varies from market to market. A California observer says there is plenty of private label milk in his Trader Joe's stores, but also no private label ice cream. Williams, like the rest of us, can only guess why some markets lack private label in certain usually key categories. He thinks it might be because the stores don't have sufficient volume in some instances. His favorite finds in his store: frozen salmon and tuna steaks that were round to fit perfectly on a hamburger bun.
Another part of the Trader Joe's mystique is its lack of scanning (although some packaging has UPCs) and use of high-tech. Ruf says checkout counters are set up to take up a minimum amount of space -- which also allows clerks to be closer to the consumer. Other observers say Trader Joe's doesn't see scanning as worth the investment, considering its low SKU count and its practice of managing product based on purchasing history. And they agree that if a product does not move, it is off the shelf very quickly.
Few Stockhouse
"Trader Joe's has almost no out-of-stocks," says Langenborg. "They manage better than almost anybody I've seen, and that helps make them so profitable. They know how much to buy, and when, and they aren't always out looking for the deals. They get a price they want for everyday, and buy in large quantities."
"They're very good at getting a price image across," says one observer. "they might go to Switzerland and find some exotic and unique chocolate and buy a lot of it, and then go on the radio romancing the story. You know, 'We just went to Switzerland and got this great deal on stuff that is usually $5, and we're going to sell it for a buck eighty-nine.' It's done intelligently and credibly, and it gets people excited and into the store. There's intelligence and wit, sort of like the J. Peters catalogs. These people are really intelligent merchants. The closest anybody comes to it in a regular supermarket is Ukrops, down in Virginia."
Does anybody have a discouraging word to say about Trader Joe's? A few observers say the chain's produce department is weak, but noted that it's getting better. They've noticed more bagged salads, for instance.
And some people believe the chain may be suffering some growing pains. Mona Doyle, president of The Consumer Network, Philadelphia, notes that recent complaints have come from consumers about checkout lines and confusion resulting from store resets. "Until the last few months, we have heard nothing but praise for this innovative retailer who has created a private label that many consumers perceive to be superior in flavor and quality to most national brands," she says. "In the last few months, we have begun to hear a trickle of complaints and let downs that suggest growing pains. Trader Joe's has built a reputation that leads consumers to expect a lot from them. As they grow, whether or not they can continue to meet those expectations remains to be seen," she says.
Pace Picks Up
Trader Joe's is its usual taciturn self when it comes to announcing any growth plans. Its pace has picked up of late, spurring the usual questions about whether it can expand much further or will remain merely a spectacular niche player.
Observers believe Trader Joe's has all it needs to continue growing, so long as the company keeps its "crew" culture and doesn't overextend itself financially -- although its financial strength seems rock-solid. They see it keeping the same size stores (for a sense of intimacy with the shopper) and moving into specific geographies that meet its highly-educated but not necessarily high-income profile.
But there are no guarantees the road ahead will be smooth. Kouzomis thinks one of Trader Joe's problems going forward will be finding good locations without having to pay so much that it affects how they go to market. He believes it would be a good move for a supermarket to go after Trader Joe's as a strategic acquisition, if ALDI would ever sell. "It'd also be an interesting twist if someone tried to copy it on the C-store side," he says.
Says Poole, "While off to an incredible start, the next challenge that awaits Trader Joe's is its ability to sustain what it's started. Many specialty retailers get off to a fast start but then stumble when their uniqueness becomes cliched. Look at the Gap. The challenge of constantly reinventing yourself while staying relevant to your core market is the ultimate test of Trader Joe's. Still, it's great to see a food retail experience that's more than category management and the lowest price." <comment><USER2> Interesting article, but is there some reason this is posted in its entirety here instead of linked to?

<comment><USER3> Fixed!

<http://tinypaste.com/pre.php?id=fef80>

<comment><AUTHOR> Didn't know a service like this existed. Perfect solution!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting to see along with all the other organizations with a strong customer oriented culture, a few that come to mind include: Whole Foods, Starbucks and The Container Store

Although, it is hard to aim for a sustainable culture in a startup that you're going to flip in a few years, perhaps it applies better to the so-called lifestyle businesses more. Nice read nonetheless!

</comment><comment><USER5> Anyone else bothered by their private labeling practices?

"...the chain also tests branded products to see how well they sell in the stores, and then approaches the manufacturer to make a private label version. The manufacturer's awkward choice is to do it, or let his competitor have the business. (Not to give them a free plug, but several observers say Trader Joe's has a penchant for knocking off or tweaking items...

<comment><USER6> I'm pretty sure most grocery stores do this in one form or another. Any stored branded product is not made by the store.

<comment><USER7> I know that Whole Foods does this though in a more evil way. If some small local gourmet place's stuff sells well within Whole Foods then Whole Foods will clone the product (don't know if the make it themselves or outsource it elsewhere) and then cut the small local place out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Joe's is the Wal-mart of grocery stores. Mark my words: There will be one every decent-sized town in two decades.

I just wish I could buy stock.

</comment><comment><USER9> Interesting article. Where did you find it?

<comment><AUTHOR> [http://www.allbusiness.com/marketing-advertising/channel- mar...](http://www.allbusiness.com/marketing-advertising/channel- marketing/219840-1.html)

Hurt my eyes last night as I clicked through subsequent pages, so I figured it would be easier to paste here on one page.

<comment><USER10> A nice thought, but it also hurts my eyes to read stuff in tiny mid-grey-on- slightly-lighter-grey italics.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> How's that for vertical integration?</comment>


EVE Online player steals $45,000 worth of ISK in massive investment scam  - <AUTHOR> http://www.massively.com/2010/09/11/eve-online-player-steals-45-000-worth-of-isk-in-massive-investm/

<comment><USER2> Reading articles like this almost makes me miss playing EVE Online, but then I remember that aside from the meta-game (which is admittedly pretty fun) it's really just a spreadsheet with pretty graphics.

<comment><USER3> And jumps between systems... lots of them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> "To put that into perspective, 850 billion is enough ISK to buy about 2575 PLEX."

<comment><USER5> Perspective for Eve players. It's like quantifying a trillion dollars by making a tower of cash from hundred dollar bills

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is just one reason why eve is the best spreadsheet UI ever.

<comment><USER7> For those of us who don't have the faintest interest in the game itself, but are fascinated by the things humans choose to do with their brief lives, can you explain why this game is like a spreadsheet?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Every time I hear about this game I'm intrigued. I read a year-or-so-ago about one of the most powerful guilds in the game being infiltrated, it's armories ransacked, and then decimated in a surprise attack/trap.

</comment><comment><USER9> [http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadI...](http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1378711&page=4#91)

</comment><comment><USER10> This isn't an investment scam. This is a bunch of trustees being snookered out of losing control of their corp.

This is a tediously common problem in the real world, the fact that they fell prey to it in EVE just makes 'em chumps :\ (although dude i guess is a con-man or whatevs, but then EVE doesn't seem to be about playing nice and getting along)

</comment><comment><USER11> This is why I love EVE Online! I haven't played since its beta, but the potential for real loss (and gain) is what makes it so enjoyable. In this way, it is a worthy successor to Ultima Online. I don't know why people play other MMOs - I just don't understand their appeal. They lack the passion, the intensity, the power of these games.

<comment><USER12> What real gain are we talking about?

<comment><USER2> You can trade in-game money for timecards, which you can then sell for real money.

<comment><USER13> Uh, no you can't. Or at least you're not supposed to.

<comment><USER2> Oh. Oops... :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Shareholders wiped out when a hot startup in gaming space dilutes stock, grabs board control, and wipes out common stock holders in insider transaction... where are the VCs in this story?</comment>


We built in-browser Ad-hoc Data Visualization client – It took us over 12 months - <AUTHOR>

12 months ago we were just a dashboard application with variety of data connections. We badly needed a tool to do ad-hoc drag and drop visualizations and able to finally publish it to finished analysis or dashboard.
The traditional thought was to go with a separate desktop based separate product that we could integrate with our dashboard but that idea did not go further. So then we started working on a browsers based ad-hoc Data visualizer and it turned out very good but still the user experience between two separate products was horrible.
Finally we put this new product right into our dashboard application and it is now nicely integrated. You can check out the new Visualizer in the video of this page [bottom]
http://www.infocaptor.com/dashboard/infocaptor-2-1-stunning-visual-analyzer-and-data-discovery-done-right-in-your-browser
Please do checkout and looking forward for your feedback. <comment><USER2> Click: [http://www.infocaptor.com/dashboard/infocaptor-2-1-stunning-...](http://www.infocaptor.com/dashboard/infocaptor-2-1-stunning- visual-analyzer-and-data-discovery-done-right-in-your-browser)</comment>