You have 404,722 users? Here's what you can do. - <AUTHOR> http://makeitslick.tumblr.com/post/21289884923/404-772users-whattodo

<comment><USER2> Thanks for posting these ideas. Here are some thoughts off the top of my head, train-of-thought.

Band Generator - There's something I love about this. I don't think Fandalism can just "generate" a band any more than LinkedIn can "generate" a startup. That said, it seems like musicians are always looking for the equivalent of marriage (a band) when I think it might be more fun to just have a several one-off trysts (random jams). The latter isn't really something musicians do currently. Which is an obstacle. But maybe there's a way to spark this behavior using a "random person to jam with this wednesday" generator.

Worldwide Music Battles - In theory this sounds really fun. I recently did a contest with Interscope records to promote the new Van Halen album. Musicians performed cover versions of the new Van Halen single in exchange for the possibility of fame and fortune. There weren't as many entries as I was hoping for. I think it comes down to musicians as artists -- and artists want to be free to create. They don't want to be told what to play. I think. Or maybe they think contests are cheesy, and your idea is more legit. I'll experiment.

Collaborative Online Recording - I think indabamusic.com does this. At least, that's the impression I get (I haven't used that site yet). It's surprisingly non-trivial to just throw a drumset recording over your bass line. To get a good drum sound you need a few mics, a mixer, recording software, EQ & mixing skills... it's really easier (and more fun, for me at least) to just jam with people in real life. And record it.

Thanks again for these ideas. They got me thinking and I'm sure I'll use them in some regard as I build new features. Same goes with all the awesome comments in my original post.

I'll keep blogging as I add new stuff to Fandalism. I plan to add a lot of stuff that was suggested in HN, in one way or another.

<comment><USER3> Why not add a 'Book me' button?

Plenty of people might be interested in being able to get one of these awesome people to come and play at your party or have a custom song recorded just for you.

<comment><USER4> Yes, THIS! It's the perfect combination of highly valuable to users and downright trivial to implement.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Aside from a few neat feature suggestions this blog entry is pretty vague about how to actually solve the monetization issue.

Instead of going the commercial route, could a site like Fandalism survive as a registered non-profit? It seems like it would be a nice fit for a site devoted to connecting independent musicians.

</comment><comment><USER6> While some Ideas are good (I love the collaborative online recording studio) this doesn't address the main point of the other post.

The main idea of this blog is that the answer to "I have lot of users, how can I generate money ?" is "Get more users and more content !"

It's not. More users and more content means more servers, more bandwidth and more money you have to spend.

It seem that in this "business" is only about generating users and user- generated content and don't worry about the money because some "Angel" investor will save you if you have enough users/content. Let them worry about how to get money out of it.

Why not start something monetizing it from the beggining. Why not add the monetizing problem and possible solution (advertising, premium content,...) at the beginning of the process so that when you grow you will see how it scales.

The main problem is not "How I will I monetize this whitout changing too much of my site" , the problem is "Why didn't you think about it before starting this process."

<comment><USER7> > _Why not start something monetizing it from the beggining. Why not add the > monetizing problem and possible solution (advertising, premium content,...) > at the beginning of the process so that when you grow you will see how it > scales._

Because that's not how you sell your 2 year old company to facebook for a billion dollars :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Any blog post that ends with a discussion of what "potential acquirers" are looking for makes me wonder if the author understands the concept of "monetization".

Ignoring revenue and praying for a buyout is not a business plan any more than buying lottery tickets is.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree. I wrote this last sentence thinking about the last point of Pud's initial post: "Get acquired".

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Don't know, but I think it is not that difficult to monetize this user base - I think it is much more difficult to gain such user base in the first place.

For starters, I would suggest to throw ideas, listed below, at the wall and see what will stick:

1\. Kickstarter for albums [where funding is prepayment for goods/services] - taking into account the state of music industry this shall fly a long way.

2\. Pro account - personalized pages for a band and sample tracks for a monthly fee, paid by a band.

3\. Events organizer - bands can propose concerts for clubs, bars, etc. Making money - transactions - either as cut of concert cost (band-club) or as cut from tickets sold. And this feature is available only to Pro-account holders.

I believe that just doing the above shall easily generate at least $10-50K per month in 3-6 mths, assuming correct execution.

There are other options to monetize, but the above are the most obvious/simple to implement.

</comment><comment><USER10> _> A collaborative online recording studio. Fandalists could create open projects and see other contributing to their creation._

This is an idea that's been bugging me for a while.

Something like a multi-track SoundCloud, where uploading a song requires uploading each channel (drums, bass, lead etc) as a separate bounced track. Hitting play for a particular song plays back all the channels in sync as intended by the original artist, or the song can be 'forked' by other users, who can tweak or replace individual channels.

A high-school kid swapping Jimi's solo in 'All Along The Watchtower' for his own, or an electronic artist forking a classical pianist and adding breakbeats... karaoke for musicians.

You'd be able to track songs 'forked' from your own ala github, and forks-of- forks would quickly diverge into something quite unique.

No idea how you'd monetize it (pay-to-fork?), attract users (would the the separate-channel thing be a pretty large barrier to entry for the average musician?), more than likely a legal minefield, and probably not particularly useful to Pud, but I'd love to see it happen :)

</comment><comment><USER11> > _A collaborative online recording studio. Fandalists could create open > projects and see other contributing to their creation. Like a colossal music > Dropbox on a certain tempo. I start a project with a line of guitar and some > info (mood, tempo, chord structure). A bassist comes to the site and drops > its line of bass. Later, a drummer adds a beat. Another drummer comes and > offers a different beat version. In a sense, it would be a cloud-based Babel > tower on which thousands would create together._

This is just fantastic.

<comment><USER12> Just wanted to add that I've been craving something akin to this system for a fair few years now, the amount of reasonable little bits and bobs I've come up with that I just can't think of what to do with frustrates me.

As for monetisation, tip jars seems the obvious short term solution to me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Huh?

1\. Build website 2\. Acquire users 3\. ... 4\. Profit!

I don't see where this post fills the #3 at all. The last thing he needs is to build out an unproven set of new features.

<comment><AUTHOR> Indeed, I have been vague on number 3. My take-away was more like: "Here's a cool user base, let's see what else we can do with it", thinking also that these new features could open up the spectrum of monetization possibilities.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Here is an idea of how you could change the site.

* Content discovery pretty close to how you have it but with a better way to find local acts. I.e. a big read "Find Local" button.

* Have an admin interface for musicians to put concert dates, iTunes links, etc.

* Eventually you could become the one-stop shop for discovering new local acts as and figuring out who is playing in your town on a given night.

As an example you view some guitar video of a dude shredding a Metallica song. You click on it and you see what band he is in, where/when it is playing, songs from the band that you can stream for free(with user ratings), download for a price (or free if they want). That kind of thing.

The reverse of this is also true. You can see a calendar of all of the local acts playing near you. You can click on any act and see all of their fandalism videos as well as all the information I described above.

You should be able to purchase tickets and songs through fandalism.

Monetization

* Take a cut of said ticket and song purchases.

* Very subtle premium ads on the main page advertising shows in your area based on your tastes. Personally I would actually be interested in reading these ads.

EDIT:

Just had another idea which is an addon to my previous idea. A lot of people are coming up with ideas related to Kickstarter. This is a cool concept. I think it would be excellent if Fandalism partnered with music venues so that you have a list of a bunch of different acceptable venues and their seating capacity.

Bands or users could initiate Fandalism campaigns to have a band play a live concert. E.g. I'm willing to put $10 to see this band play live on one of these dates. Turns out 1000 other people were willing to do so as well. Fans vote on which of the 1000 person venue they want to go to. Band gets 5k, venue gets 4.5k, fandalism gets 500 bucks.

I think this plays to peoples' want to be ahead of the curve. How cool would it be to say "Yeah I funded the Red Hot Chili Peppers first concert way before they became famous".

</comment><comment><USER15> I don't mean to be cruel, but the ideas in this post are a strong argument against feature creep.

Politely, each one of those could be their own startup. However, are these burning need concerns? Is someone currently being held back by an absence of these ideas, or are they just distractions from the core value proposition?

<comment><USER16> I understand what you're saying, but PUD has a lot of experience building startups and I think he has the right mix of know-how and resources to launch any of the ideas listed in the article as part of Fandalism.

My first thought after reading PUD's original post was the "band generator" idea too. It seems in line with the idea of exposing and building on musical talent in a community-building atmosphere, which I think(?) is in-line with his core goals for the site...

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> This typically raises the growth versus revenue debate. Do you continue as is, adding users or try and monetise, risking alienating users.

There have been some smart sponsorship/advertising concepts that have worked well on free sites.

Kaggle comes to mind. They hold competitions for members. Usually sponsors throw in cash prizes and job offers.

So an American Idol YouTube competition with a prize to headline a big concert may work. Drives traffic and maybe some revenue from companies rather than users.

</comment><comment><USER18> "sleek UX + great content/data = magic sauce for user stickiness and monetization."

Even if it would make them stick around more, how would that monetize the site? Magically?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sure, you always need a money-spinner at the end.

As I was trying to say in the last paragraph of my post: when you get people stick to your service, it broadens the realm of possibilites for monetization. For instance, the online collaborative studio could have some premium features (specific editing tools, extra storage... I am thinking out loud). Another example: when you get half-million users coming back every week, music labels or festival organizers might be ready to pay to get their advertising to the right audience (musicians, music fans) - see Pitchfork or Rollingstone.com.

<comment><USER18> He already has a big realm of possibilites for monetization. He just doesn't know what to choose. And you told him, hey you know what, you could get even MORE possibilities and then everything will solve itself and money and stuff. Reminiscent of the "2. ????" before "3. profit".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This made me think... Twitter and Facebook exposed APIs, charge for high use(?) and then buy up the really successful ones.

Could be an interesting direction to take?

<comment><USER20> For that to really work I'd imagine the people using your API would need to be able to monetize? So you're basically shifting the challenge of turning users into value to a 3rd party.

I don't have anything to back this up other than a gut feeling, but to pull it off I think you'd need another order of magnitude worth of users, or some data that's exceptionally compelling to 3rd party developers.

(Maybe fandalism does have this? Alot of people seem to have interesting ideas on what to do with that many bands and fans in one place)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I'd love to be involved in this project. If you want some free contributions with the coding, hit me up.

</comment><comment><USER16> Really love the band generator idea - PUD, if you're listening in, make it happen! I'd use it...

</comment><comment><USER22> It'd be nice if this article was generic enough it could be applied to almost anyone.

</comment><comment><USER23> Knowing-how-to-use-HN fail - anyone have a link to the article he's replying to?

<comment><USER24> <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3850739>

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Do what most sites end up doing:

1\. Add musician-specific ads.

2\. Sell your user data to spammers.

3\. Wait for Facebook to buy you.

</comment><comment><USER26> Genius :)</comment>


Lisp for the Web (2008) - <AUTHOR> https://www.adamtornhill.com/articles/lispweb.htm <comment><USER2> I started writing something similar a while back:

[https://github.com/rongarret/BWFP](https://github.com/rongarret/BWFP)

If there's enough interest I'll pick it back up again.

<comment><USER3> Please do, there is sadly not enough stuff related to lisp, specially valuable stuff from people that were working during the AI boom. I for one would more than welcome any thorough project/info from your perspective

<comment><USER2> OK, let me see what I can do. Anything in particular you'd like to see in the next chapter?

<comment><USER3> Well for me, I'm super curious about compiler development, and I think, in the topic of this thread, maybe a chapter on writing a recursive descent parser for JS? building a transpiler? or using lisp as a intermediary with LLVM IR? somewhere where either DSL || "Code is data" and the true advantages of lisp shine through, and I would love that from an experienced lisper. Also if you could go into some use cases for tunable compilers that is seldom elaborated when that is mentioned as a huge lisp advantage! Thanks for giving the community your time in advance!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> "Lisp is actually a family of languages discovered by John McCarthy 50 years ago."

McCarthy was deep in the Amazon when suddenly out of nowhere...

<comment><USER5> I know it seems like one of those Lispers' idiosyncrasies--"discovered" instead of "invented".

I first heard it explained by Philip Wadler, and upon reflection it was one of those "enlightenment" moments that Lispers always go on about: Lambda calculus _is_ a discovery, and should we ever encounter an alien space-faring species, we could read their programs in spite of their alien processing architectures (given that they use a functional language, but let's face it, they have the tech to cross space, they know what they are doing, i.e. they're in the functional camp)

"Propositions as Types" by Philip Wadler, Strange Loop. ([https://youtu.be/IOiZatlZtGU?t=1678](https://youtu.be/IOiZatlZtGU?t=1678))

<comment><USER6> then you can add a layer of Kay "Lisp is the maxwell equation of computing"

I do agree that lisp being super tiny and quite mathematical at heart is probably less a social invention than the rest.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Sounds interesting. Has anyone used the approach/stack described in the book and can report on pros and cons? Edit: I'd be especially interested in hearing opinions about ParenScript.

<comment><USER8> I'm doing dynamic web apps on a different stack but dabbled with doing web apps in Lisp and found the tradeoffs to be quite similar.

Pro: rapid prototyping and development, excellent debugging capabilities (both for your web app and network requests... can be extended to browser-side with effort), your app can have capabilities that are difficult to implement with static languages/frameworks

Con: small user community which results in limited selection of frameworks all having their own quirks/limitations, when things break you're often on your own, in dynamic languages performance often won't scale as easily or as far vertically (the recommended approach is often to be sure your design can scale horizontally)

</comment></comment><comment> phoe-krk Part 2 on the Internet Archive: [https://web.archive.org/web/20171109223946/http://msnyder.in...](https://web.archive.org/web/20171109223946/http://msnyder.info/posts/2011/07/lisp- for-the-web-part-ii/)

<comment><USER9> Thank you!

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> (2008)

Though the 45-page book was finished in 2015, according to [https://leanpub.com/lispweb](https://leanpub.com/lispweb).

<comment><USER11> Yup, good book too. Still pick it up from time to time.</comment></comment>


Show HN: JobInChain – Find a Job as a Blockchain Developer - <AUTHOR> https://jobinchain.com/ <comment><USER2> Interesting to see that most decentralized developer positions require centralized location (no remote) as a requirement :)

<comment><USER3> Most Blockchain projects heading for actual production aren't decentralized though.

Maersk may be heading toward running container ownership claims on Blockchain tech, but they will be in full control of the network and the deciding nodes.

<comment><USER4> Honest question for someone more knowledgeable about the subject than myself: if you are not decentralized (in the authority sense), why would you pick a blockchain-based solution instead of a more traditional distributed database?

Sometimes it looks like people throw blockchain in a project not on technical merits but because they think the buzzword is a VC magnet.

<comment><USER5> >Sometimes it looks like people throw blockchain in a project not on technical merits but because they think the buzzword is a VC magnet.

That's because they do. A Blockchain without decentralization (and therefore no need for proof-of-work consensus) is functionally just an immutable, append-only object database - the same sort of data structure that any modern, distributed source code version control system (like Git) has always used, before "Blockchain" was even a thing.

<comment><USER6> It's sad how often this happens. I regularly talk with people in "blockchain startups" only find out that they're the sole operators of the network. Congrats guys, you just raised $30 mil to build a highly-clustered event sourcing database

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Dear developers, stop defining yourself with the technology you work with. Instead define yourself based on what you believe in and stand for.

<comment><USER8> what if you stand for blockchain or you believe in big data.

<comment><USER7> Then you stand for nothing at all. You can stand for decentralization of financial systems at which point blockchain might become an enabling technology. But you are arbitrarily limiting yourself if you have such a strong focus on a given paradigm.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Lol "Job in Chain" with these salaries it does come close to slavery so I guess the naming is right ...

What kind of a CTO works for 50K = I guess only those gagging to put "CTO" on their resume? Also exactly how much does an average engineer get when the CTO makes 50K ... Participating in such BS games is fraud against yourself and anyone who receives your CV in future. If you send me your CV and it has blockchain/ethereum/IOTA or similar listed, you'll get shifted to the other pile before you can say proof-of-work.

</comment><comment><USER10> frankly, i'm shocked at how low the pay is on many of these. great idea though.

</comment><comment><USER11> This is useful, but the naming is quite unappealing :)

As a sidenote, I see a lot of "normie" devs (as in formerly working for "big data", "cloud" etc. projects) joining blockchain startups suddenly.

<comment><USER12> I sort of wonder if those are just devs that could't hack it in whatever technology and constantly leap frog to the "new hotness"

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> The salary is for one month or one year?

<comment><USER14> It's for a year. But maybe it's not enought clear ! I will keep that in mind.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> What made you want to launch another crypto job list?

Considering that there are a few pretty big players already:

[https://cryptojobslist.com](https://cryptojobslist.com) \- [https://coinality.com](https://coinality.com) \- [https://blocktribe.com](https://blocktribe.com) \- etc…

<comment><USER14> Multiple reasons :

I previously had a job board that wasn't targeting any area in particular. It didn't worked so i decide to rebrand it on to focus on blockchain technology because i find that it was hard to find a job in this field.

Regarding other big players, i have to agree. But i wanted to create a very simple job board, for developers by a developer. I still have a lot of work but i hope i will be able to differentiate myself from the other websites.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Was there a reason you decided to focus on a subset of consensus protocols? I.e, only blockchains v. blockchains, DAGs, hashgraphs, and any new protocols that may appear.

<comment><USER14> No there's no reason. It's just that there are more offers currently for blockchain like Ethereum.

Maybe you are right and i should be more open to other consensus protocols.

I will keep that in mind, thank you for you feedback !

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Hi HN, I have been working on this job board for blockchain related tech jobs.

I keep it as simple as possible but i will improve it with some feature (like filters) from feedback that i can gather.

I hope some of you will find this project usefull, and, of course, i'm staying available if you have any suggestions.

<comment><USER17> Nice work. What is the source for these jobs? And do you scrape the sites or use APIs provided by the sources (if they do). Just curious. Thanks!

<comment><USER14> Thank you for your feedback!

For now it's a mix of me posting offer i cand find and business owner publishing for their company.

I have to work more to make the recruiter more aware of my plateform right now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Posting this for a friend who has currently some issues with his HN account.

<comment><USER14> Thank you for your help ;)</comment></comment>


Simulating quantum 'time travel' disproves butterfly effect in quantum realm - <AUTHOR> https://phys.org/news/2020-07-simulating-quantum-butterfly-effect-realm.html <comment><USER2> The "butterfly effect" is only possible in some classic systems. For example imagine that you put a drop of ink in a glass of water (with some sugar). If a butterfly drinks some water, it will not change the final equilibrium state where the ink is evenly distributed.</comment>


Ask HN: What kind of music (if any) do you listen to when programming? - <AUTHOR> Please share your playlists below <comment><USER2> I've come across this article ("listen to game soundtracks") and it's surprisingly useful to me: [https://www.popsci.com/g00/work-productivity- listening-music...](https://www.popsci.com/g00/work-productivity-listening- music?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmN6Lw%3D%3D&i10c.ua=1)

</comment><comment><USER3> Chilled cow lo fi hip hop - [https://youtu.be/8XiqrERZo_8](https://youtu.be/8XiqrERZo_8) (goes live every day)

Trap & bass - [https://youtu.be/yY7iGa4t9-I](https://youtu.be/yY7iGa4t9-I)</comment>


The Bitter Homeschooler's Wish List - <AUTHOR> http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/001/bitter_homeschooler.html

<comment><USER2> Nice. Having home schooled our children I have to say that it is definitely a conversation starter and not always in a good way. Its interesting that the list posted though only tangentially touches on the the crux of the issue.

The public is being bombarded with messages every day that education in the US has apparently fallen below every country in Africa in terms of how much we spend on our children and fallen behind every other 'first world' nation in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM). The outcome is that people who are unable to home school but wish they could apparently feel threatened by those who do.

At our house the decision to take our kids out of school was not easily taken. It meant that either my or I would be spending our 'life capital' investing in the elementary school education of our children rather than on other aspects such as maybe career points, starting a new company, or building a service organization to help the less fortunate. Since we were looking at what was essentially a 8 to 12 year commitment (we weren't sure if we'd want them to go to an institutional type high school or not) there was a potential to use that time to do any number of things. So if someone tells you they are home schooling their kids understand also it tells you what they are not doing.

Not everyone is a good teacher, but anyone who has graduated from college and is committed can teach their kids what they need to know prior to entering high school.

Public education is broken in a number of ways, both in how they allocate resources and how they evaluate effectiveness. Private education more able to evaluate and allocate effectively is not necessarily affordable to everyone, home schooling, for those who have both the time and the ability to make the economics work out, is, in my experience, very effective at providing the foundation.

</comment><comment><USER3> > _"We all hate you, so please go away."_

> _"We...laugh at you because you have to go on weekends and holidays when > it's crowded and icky."_

> _"So go be shallow somewhere else."_

> _"It's not fair"_

> _"shut up!"_

Apparently, the author attended public school in the seventh grade. Unfortunately, the author still relies upon the same set of social skills. Ironically, the author makes secular homeschooling appear less like a well considered decision made by a thoughtful adult.</comment>


Google now selling ethernet adapter for Chromecast - <AUTHOR> https://store.google.com/product/_ethernet_adapter_for_chromecast

<comment><USER2> So good it is currently sold out (and not available in my region...yet!)</comment>


Vote in the Webware 100 - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnet.com/html/ww/100/2009/poll/productivity.html?tag=mncol

<comment><AUTHOR> I could use your vote for OfficeZilla, listed on the bottom left hand side of the page above. I know there are others you might use and like, you can vote for whoever, but I could use the free traffic.

So far they have written this nice article which resulted in about 800 signups <http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10193578-2.html>, they pick 10 winners from each category so there is a reasonable chance of being one of the winners in this category and getting the benefit of the traffic.

My job has changed so that means all sorts of time to work on the system now if I make enough money fast enough to survive the month. This can be big if I have more people then I have more people to sell to once I have something for them to subscribe to (paid modules and such).

</comment><comment><USER2> Vote for JamLegend too! Gotta love the underdog in the music category...

<comment><USER3> <http://www.cnet.com/html/ww/100/2009/poll/audio.html></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you make graphs from a script? - <AUTHOR> Until recently whenever I've needed a graph it's been a one-off and simple enough just to fire up LibreOffice on CSV data, make the graph, screen-save, then use the GIMP to trim the image.  It's just never been worth taking the time to learn how to use a package, or to write code, because it wasn't time effective[0].<p>But now it is.  So what would you use to create a graph of some data?<p>[0] https://xkcd.com/1205/ <comment><USER2> [https://css-tricks.com/how-to-make-charts-with-svg/](https://css- tricks.com/how-to-make-charts-with-svg/)

</comment><comment><USER3> I've used gnuplot in the past [http://www.gnuplot.info/](http://www.gnuplot.info/)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Clickable: [https://xkcd.com/1205/](https://xkcd.com/1205/)</comment>


Black Hats, Grey Hairs - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/node/21525372

<comment><USER2> Ehhh... I am surprisingly unimpressed with this article. I'm an Economist subscriber, but I don't feel like they captured the intricacies of the situation. I know that's a lot to ask for a brief article, but it kind of made them sound like a pro-government bulletin board.

<comment><USER3> My thoughts exactly. Without any real reporting of why these hacktivists are doing this (beyond the lulz), it comes across one-sided.</comment></comment>


Superpowers – The extensible, collaborative HTML5 2D+3D game maker - <AUTHOR> https://sparklinlabs.com/?superpowers <comment><AUTHOR> Hey! I'm part of the small team building Superpowers over the past 6 months. I've been working on collaborative game-making tools for several years and Superpowers is the result of a lot of that work. I'm very proud of the small core + plugins architecture we came up with and excited to open source (MIT) it all soon!

I'll be happy to answer any questions, obviously.

<comment><USER2> Why TypeScript? Not a criticism by any means, just curious.

<comment><AUTHOR> We evaluated various possibilities and even started building our own scripting language (because TS compiler APIs weren't ready back then) before going with TypeScript. Many reasons:

We want Superpowers to be as "Web native" as possible. TypeScript is just JavaScript + types, they're working to align with ES6 and maybe even merge with ES7+, they have a lot of mindshare, their compiler services are awesome (having intellisense-like in the editor is a big deal) and the whole compiler can be run in the browser, which means it'll work everywhere just like the Web we're building on.

(I've talked in more details about it in our devlog - [http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=46317.0](http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=46317.0))

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I like the pitch and the objectives stated here. The monthly funding model is a good fit for this sort of thing where users will want ongoing maintenance and improvement for their middleware.

Demo doesn't work well in Firefox (latest, Developer Edition) on Win8.1 x64, though. Z-buffering looks totally busted and the framerate is bad.

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/jymr2vr8ip52tw5/Screenshot%202015-...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/jymr2vr8ip52tw5/Screenshot%202015-03-14%2018.58.29.png?dl=0)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! We thought long and hard about how to fund the whole thing, and open sourcing + ongoing funding ended up looking like the best solution indeed.

That's quite the weird rendering bug. Everything works fine here in Firefox stable (tested on both Windows 7 and 8.1). Probably a driver issue of some sort? We're really not doing anything fancy, just using the default basic mesh material of Three.js and simple meshes.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I just uploaded a Superpowers video demo showing off some of the editor plugins as well as real-time collaboration:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxX7VFjf- XU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxX7VFjf-XU)

</comment><comment><USER4> The real-time collaboration seems kind of cool but also makes me wonder how you handle history, permissions, etc. If I'm editing code and you're editing code and I hit 'RUN' I don't want your half finished code that doesn't compile to prevent me from running the game.

I'm curious why I'd choose this over say Unreal (free), Unity3D (free), Source 2 (free). ok, they aren't 100% free but they're effectively free until you make money.

They all have a track record of shipping games on multiple platforms (some more than others). Some already have huge communities. 2 of them export to HTML5 if that's what you want. They have large detail animation system, cutscene systems, visual programming system, shader editors, quality importers for tons of formats...

<comment><AUTHOR> > The real-time collaboration seems kind of cool but also makes me wonder how > you handle history, permissions, etc. If I'm editing code and you're editing > code and I hit 'RUN' I don't want your half finished code that doesn't > compile to prevent me from running the game.

Script changes are marked as drafted until you explicitely choose to apply them to the current build (Ctrl+S), so you won't break the build because you're in the middle of typing a line of code. There'll be a membership and rights system, right now there's only a server-wide password. Real-time script editing uses the same tech behind google docs and such (operational transform). There's no special history support right now, the server owner can version the projects in Mercurial / Git manually. Later on we'd like to have a project-wide revision system right in the UI.

> I'm curious why I'd choose this over say Unreal (free), Unity3D (free), > Source 2 (free). ok, they aren't 100% free but they're effectively free > until you make money.

Unity, UE4 (and probably Source 2) are multi-GB download and fairly heavyweight tools with sooo many options and drawers. Don't get me wrong, I love Unity (haven't spent much time with UE and Source 2 isn't out yet), but Superpowers is competing with Game Maker, Construct and the likes, not the big engines.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Hey, this is pretty cool. Looking forward to seeing progress with it!

</comment><comment><USER6> Hi Elisee,

Great to see Superpowers making progress. I'm interested in your choice of Three.js. Did you consider other WebGL game engines? Like PlayCanvas[1] (where I'm a co-founder) which is also open-source[2] but more designed towards games than three?

[1]: [https://playcanvas.com/](https://playcanvas.com/)

[2]: [https://github.com/playcanvas/engine/](https://github.com/playcanvas/engine/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi Dave! I didn't realize the PlayCanvas engine was standalone like Three.js, I somehow assumed it was linked with the online editing tools you built. Good news! Really impressed with your physically-based shading support by the way.

We went with Three.js because it's pretty versatile and does everything we need in the near future. Superpowers is built in 3 layers: the core (which handles projects, storage and networking), the system (which is basically Three.js + game instance/actors/components) and all the editor & asset plugins built upon the system. The system can be swapped out with something else, and a new set of plugins can be built on top of it, or the existing plugins adapted for a new engine, so the community will totally be able experiment with other engines including PlayCanvas!

We spent a lot of time designing the Superpowers platform so that this would be possible :). In fact, Superpowers could even be used to make movies or write novels collaboratively, with the appropriate system and set of plugins.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Cool!

This sounds exactly like an idea that I've had before. What my friends and I called it was 'GameTube' which would be a platform for making and sharing games online. That was part of what motivated me to work on the Duck programming language, which would be a simplified language to develop in, along with some web IDE's for game making and common content that aspiring game developers could work with.

I think creating a platform for collaborative creation in games is a great idea and something that is as-of-yet untapped in online communities. The main limiting factor is creating tools and platforms that outperform what already exists and creating an ecosystem for users where they have support to work on ideas that connect.

Links: [http://github.com/teamduck/gametube](http://github.com/teamduck/gametube) [http://www.team-duck.com/space/](http://www.team-duck.com/space/)

</comment><comment><USER8> Looks cool. My boy spends a lot of time building games in scratch and has tried a few different ways to do it collaboratively with his mates without much success. This could be a great next step if you're successful.

</comment><comment><USER9> Hey, I saw craftstudio (your previous product before), and I fairly liked the way you could create models there. Is that the case with superpowers aswell, or are we limited to modelling using 3rd party tools?

Any plans for shaders?

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey kamac! Right now we don't have a cubic model editor plugin but it's something I'd love to add back from CraftStudio (or to see the community contribute) because it's so easy to make things with, either for prototyping or just to make blocky games :D.

I've also been toying with the idea of making a "Superpowers Minecraft modding edition" when Minecraft 1.9 comes out with an actual 3D model + skeletal animation format (everything has been hardcoded until now), so that could go hand-in-hand.

EDIT: Missed your question about shaders. We do plan to have a material editor and postprocessing shaders!

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I already saw you on TIGSoucre and thought Superpowers looks pretty awesome. I was wondering if deployment to PC/Mobile is already working and what the performance on mobile can be expected.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's working! Demo: [https://twitter.com/SuperpowersDev/status/566993176532373504](https://twitter.com/SuperpowersDev/status/566993176532373504)

You can load up your games in a recent mobile browser or package them into APKs with the Intel XDK (we didn't have a chance to test iOS export yet since we don't have an iDevice but it should work). Performance-wise, I don't have hard numbers or anything. This is the Web, you won't get as much perf out of it as a native app, but the games we've built so far run great.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Another one :). JS and HTML? No, thanks.

</comment><comment><USER12> Definitely something lost in translation...

You don't need funding to make an open source solution to game development.

There is lots of competition out there for what you are doing. Have you compared your project to others just like it?

Best bet is to continue to work on the open source project, but if you need funding, do that separately, and don't confuse it with open source.

<comment><USER13> _You don 't need funding to make an open source solution to game development._

I think you are confusing open source with free as in beer. A lot of open source projects are funded by companies, being open source doesn't exclude being paid to develop the software.

<comment><USER14> This is really the crux of it. What the heck are people complaining about?</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What intangible qualities do you look for in early employees? - <AUTHOR> When you go beyond a founding team, where you likely have a background with your founding members, how do you screen for the attributes that make early employees successful? <comment><USER2> ability to think ahead in space and time</comment>


The race is on to grow crops in the sea and feed millions of people - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/growing-crops-in-seawater <comment><USER2> Elsewhere people grow coconuts ,attap palms, real fan palms..</comment>


Bash, now on the web (chrome/opera) - <AUTHOR> http://www.urdesk.net/?p=1045219

<comment><AUTHOR> I am the creator of this monstrosity... AMA.

<comment><USER2> It's cool but... why?

<comment><AUTHOR> I wanted to created a fully distributed operating system that would given programmers and systems engineers the ability to think of remote resources in the same way as they think about local resources. I see a fundamental schism that lies at the heart of computing... we have our sophisticated algorithms on the one hand, which are typically kept within the confines of our native operating systems, and we have our content streams on the other, which are kept within the confines of our web browsers. By putting these two paradigms together, we can be truly systematic about the unlimited content that exists on the web.</comment></comment></comment>


Don Jayamanne, creator of Python extension for VS Code, joins Microsoft - <AUTHOR> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/pythonengineering/2017/11/09/don-jayamanne-joins-microsoft/ <comment><USER2> This is great news! VSCode has become my defacto editor across all of my environments, Linux, macOS, and Windows (10).

With a small amount of background setup that differs between environments I have essentially the exact same thing across all of my environments, and everything 'just works.'

I'm a big fan of VSCode, and it's awesome to see Microsoft putting heavy effort into it.

On the note of this specific plugin -- it's really good! I'd also suggest this plugin - [https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=felixfbe...](https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=felixfbecker.php- intellisense) \- if you like PHP. I switch between PHP/Python a lot and these two plugins have made VSCode great for my workflow.

<comment><USER3> Why not Emacs? Just curious.

<comment><USER4> I use it because I prefer editors that don't require relevant mental overhead (and for me, the text-editing "efficiency" is the least relevant part of the editor experience). Simplicity is a big factor for me in editor choice. I used Sublime previously, but VSCode won out with significantly better intellisense support – this python extension for example. The language servers have been awesome.

<comment><USER5> EMACS is not a good editor wverything else about EMACS is great but the editor and shortcuts are the worst :) That is why I use Spacemacs if I am trying out something in EMACS. I am actually thinking that NeoVim will be inside of EMACS soon.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Happy to see this hit the front page! If you have any thoughts about how you'd like us to improve Python support in VS Code please let us know.. with the additional resources we're hoping to accelerate the development quite a bit.

<comment><USER6> The game changer for Python VSCode would be to run Jupyter Notebooks natively and can save/read .ipynb files. (The current Jupyter extension by Don allows code to be run as cells, but doesn't save cell output/allow text cells)

<comment><AUTHOR> YES! I'd love to see the native Jupyter and REPL experience improve as well.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I love VSCode. I don't understand what's Microsoft's incentive is to put all this money behind it (by hiring external contributors and staffing the project). Would love to know, if someone can chime in.

<comment><USER8> I don't know if they'll do it, but I'd love for them to offer a hosted VSCode product. It seems technically fairly feasible.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a great suggestion and I hope that VS Code gets there (and with it Python support). Meanwhile, for an approximation check out:

[https://notebooks.azure.com](https://notebooks.azure.com)

Rumor has it that its successor, ie JupyterLab, may use the VS Code Editor as its code editor in the future.

<comment><USER9> Visual Studio Online, the predecessor product of VS Code, uses the Monaco code editor.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> OT

Anyone using VS Code for C++? What is you setup, are you also using cmake?

</comment><comment><USER11> Does anyone have opinions on how well Intellisense for python in VS code works in comparison to Jedi or PyCharm / Jetbrains' completion?

<comment><USER12> Worse than PyCharm. I miss PyCharm's completion. Not enough to put up with the rest of the PyCharm interface, but I miss it.

<comment><USER13> Would you (and others) be willing to have an extra 20 MB download to get better intellisense? We could potentially work with the PTVS team on better/faster intellisense, but it would require writing that code in .NET which would mean downloading a private copy of .NET for use by the extension.

<comment><USER14> Personally, I definitely would. Disk space is not really a particularly limited commodity for me, and considering that VSCode's install footprint is already 200MB+, it's not really a problem.

Of course, it's always possible to add some kind of setting for better intellisense, but I suspect most people don't really care too much about the disk size. What I would care about is performance impact/CPU usage.

Another potential issue for me is if adding PVTS would force the extension to be closed source like the C++ extension.

TL;DR: Definitely

<comment><USER13> PTVS itself is open source so there's no worry there (our whole team does it's work as open source wherever it makes sense, and in this instance it would).

<comment><USER14> Didn't realize that. In that case, sounds awesome!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> That's truly cool.</comment>


Key Techdirt SOPA/PIPA Post Censored By Bogus DMCA Takedown Notice - <AUTHOR> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120223/15102217856/key-techdirt-sopapipa-post-censored-bogus-dmca-takedown-notice.shtml

<comment><USER2> There's certainly precedent for punitive action to be taken.

[http://targetlaw.com/consequences-of-filing-a-false-dmca- tak...](http://targetlaw.com/consequences-of-filing-a-false-dmca-takedown- request)

"...A California court agreed with the Group and granted a request for summary judgment, after which Diebold settled with the Group to pay $125,000 for their monetary losses and legal fees."

<comment><USER3> I was actually intimately involved in that particular case and one of the named parties in Diebold's C&D.

Support the EFF. They got the proceeds from our settlement.

<comment><USER2> That's great to hear. Thankyou.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's good that the US is still the land of "Innocent until proven guilty" and not vice-versa or even secretly guilty while it's convenient.

<comment><USER5> Fun fact: China's GFW designer, Fang Binxing, during a national TV interview, accused Google's censorship with DCMA and Chilling Effects[1].

His argument is basically like this: since Google will censor web content with bullshit copyright claims in the US, why can't Google censor taboo topics in China?

[1]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fang_Binxing#cite_note-4>

<comment><USER6> Good point, really. I also wonder why Google censors the copyrighted content worldwide, if they only get DMCA complaints from the US...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> There should be punitive punishment for filing inaccurate takedown notices, and instead there is immunity.

<comment><USER7> There are provisions for this type of thing in the DMCA. I'm not sure to what extent these damages have been enforced, but it appears that the company that submitted these DMCA requests to Google has committed perjury by doing so in bad faith.

<comment><USER8> Penalties for bad faith DMCA takedowns have ranged from awarding lawyer's fees, &c, to the folks whose content was taken down, to having the party that issued the takedown issue a public apology and take a class on copyright law. It's also perjury, so criminal sanction is an option, though I don't know how likely that is to succeed, or how often it's been pursued.

<comment><USER9> Yes, it's theoretically perjury, but getting a prosecutor to go after it seems like a pretty far reach, even though it seems clear some of these notices are an abuse of the law.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> A TF article was also censored by "mistake":

[http://torrentfreak.com/torrentfreaks-us-censorship- mistake-...](http://torrentfreak.com/torrentfreaks-us-censorship-mistake- article-censored-by-mistake-120227/)

</comment><comment><USER11> The headline seems a little alarmist; the article in question wasn't "censored" completely, it was just removed from Google. (I'll preemptively disagree with the argument that if a page is not Googleable it doesn't exist.)

<comment><USER12> The fact that you had to employ the modifier "completely" to make your point suggests that the headline's use of the verb "censor" was defensible.

<comment><USER13> You just rationalized all hyperbole.

Their post was obliterated. Could not be found. Ceased to exist. The DMCA take-down notice removed TechDirt from Google. TechDirt was erased.

All completely true if you don't require modifiers to be stated. I'd prefer that HN doesn't turn into a tabloid.

<comment><USER12> This is a wonderful linguistic cul-de-sac you've steered into, but the fact remains that "censor" means "suppress"; it does not mean "eradicate". When the government of China or Acela's internet filtering vendor block a site, they are censoring it, without removing it from the internet. The same principle applies here.

<comment><USER13> Indeed - it was only eradicated from Google's search results. My point is that that's a modifier, therefore the use of it is defensible...? That's an objective claim that's completely ridiculous when taken to other contexts.

Whether it's alarmist / excessive is subjective. And, since either would be technically correct, it probably has more to do with implied meanings or the common use of a word, and not the dictionary definition. Their usage of it is certainly defensible, but that has little to do with whether or not a modifier would make it more accurate.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Google Doesn't Know What Is The Largest Desert - <AUTHOR> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=largest+desert+in+the+world <comment><USER2> When I click on your link the top entry says:

        The second largest desert is the Arctic,
        with 13.7 million square km.  The third
        largest desert in the world is the more
        familiar Sahara, with a total size of
        9.1 million square km.  Antarctica is
        the coldest, windiest, and most isolated
        continent on Earth.

That clearly implies that Antarctica is the largest desert. It's then accompanied by an image showing a map of Antarctica.

Why are you saying that Google doesn't know what the largest desert is? It clearly does - it's Antarctica.

<comment><USER3> [http://m.imgur.com/lHRyrAg](http://m.imgur.com/lHRyrAg)

The big heading says "sahara", while the text says Antarctica.

<comment><USER2> Hah - you are right! Somehow I skipped reading the big "Sahara" at the top and read the actual text, and looked at the image. I never read the "title".

 _Mea culpa_ \- I was wrong.

<comment><USER4> Either it must have been fixed in the last couple of minutes or it isn't global issue. [https://imgur.com/O5NlrV6](https://imgur.com/O5NlrV6)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


DHS scrambles to cover up FOIA scandal - <AUTHOR> http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2010/08/18/dhs-scrambles-to-cover-up-foia-scandal/

<comment><USER2> Original AP article about the "FOIA scandal":

[http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iz_vYVn2EG...](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iz_vYVn2EGBVVmj9Pg6AllECgh9wD9H3O8OO2)

Basically, out of 103,000 FoIA requests last year, DHS delayed about 500 more than the customary 3 days, because Janet Napolitano's staff wanted to find out more about the people making those requests.

<comment><USER3> The scandal is really about the policy put in place by the Obama administration.

From the article you cited:

"Career employees were ordered to provide Secretary Janet Napolitano's political staff with information about the people who asked for records — such as where they lived, whether they were private citizens or reporters — and about the organizations where they worked. If a member of Congress sought such documents, employees were told to specify Democrat or Republican."

That's a dangerous politicization of DHS and the FOIA process and certainly goes against the spirit of "transparency" the Obama administration was voted in on.

<comment><USER4> Ok, sure, it's against the spirit of transparency but I'd be willing to bet that in 90% of the cases that got sent upstairs, it actually was quite transparent scandal-fishing. Still, agree on the principle, you're right there.

But as for policy put in place by a given administration.. citation? Are you alleging with a straight face that the Bush administration wasn't doing this? Remember that whole "Department of Justice actually frickin _prosecuting_ people on poltiical grounds" thing?

<comment><USER5> "Are you alleging with a straight face that the Bush administration wasn't doing this?"

I just reread his post, and it doesn't look like it.

<comment><USER4> "Put in place" kinda implies that it wasn't happening before, no?

And if both administrations that have presided over a DHS practiced similar policies, then it's still a scandal but it's not about only one of them.

<comment><USER3> From the article: "But in July 2009, Homeland Security introduced a directive requiring a wide range of information to be vetted by political appointees for "awareness purposes," no matter who requested it."

So yes - the Obama administration "PUT IN PLACE" this policy. It's not a long article. Read it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This isn't political, they are just making sure that the terrorists don't FOIA bureaucratic minutae.

If the terrorists can read bid proposals from competing vendors after DHS buys 50 million paperclips, they win.

<comment><USER7> oh ffs, take your scary boogy man bullshit elsewhere. Unless of course you'd like to cite some proof of this army of scary "terrorists" (stupid word btw) that is so large they have time to probe every possible vulnerability. And while you're looking that up, please bring with you research on why _they haven't managed to do anything with the countless holes we have everywhere_ [1].

[1] One glaring example is the ocean ports. Did you know something like 1 out of every 100 containers is actually checked? I believe that was at the request of Walmart, among others. They must be working with the "terrorists"!!!

<comment><USER8> I think that was sarcasm. The last part suggests it.</comment></comment></comment>


Apple and Facebook - <AUTHOR> https://stratechery.com/2020/apple-and-facebook/ <comment><USER3> >Apple was quite clever in their approach: instead of killing the IDFA, which could be construed as anti-competitive, particularly given Apple's expanding app install ad business (which is expanding beyond App Store search ads), Apple is simply asking users if they would like to be tracked, and letting them render the IDFA useless.

The unstated implication of this is that when required to receive consent from users, the entire ad-tech complex falls apart.

I think Apple is actually smart to do it this way rather than just getting rid of the IDFA altogether, but only because of the political/regulatory environment right now. Any pro-privacy move will be spun as being anticompetitive by the affected parties, until Apple actually wins in court in their first antitrust case. After that the gloves can come off.

<comment><USER4> I'm curious, though, will Apple's own ads require consent? When you open the App Store for the first time, will there be a popup asking for consent to track for ad purposes?

<comment><USER5> IMO you've given enough consent by using their app store. All they need is to store the device IDs to which they display ads and install apps so that they can attribute app installs to specific advertisements. You're logged into their app store, so you should expect Apple to already know the device ID when they display ads and install apps.

<comment><USER6> But I pay for the App Store indirectly through high margin hardware, transaction fees, including the 30% tax, so shouldn't i be able to turn off Apple's ad network all together and not let them advertise to me in the App Store by using my purchase history?

Funny how privacy invasions are bad and everything should be done on device until Apple starts selling ads and then it's ok somehow for them to use your behavior/purchase profile.

<comment><USER7> You can! [https://support.apple.com/en- us/HT202074](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074)

<comment><USER6> Cool, I didn't know, but doesn't that imply it's a dark pattern? How many users know about this setting? Wouldn't it be better as Opt-In, and let the App Store prompt you when you set up your iPhone "do you want to opt in to interest based advertisin/etc"? When other companies do opt-out, they're usually heavily criticized.

<comment><USER6> Cool, I didn't know, but doesn't that imply it's a dark pattern? How many users know about this setting? Wouldn't it be better as Opt-In, and let the App Store prompt you when you set up your iPhone "do you want to opt in to interest based advertisin/etc"? When other companies do opt-out, they're usually heavily criticized.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Yikes, where to begin...

Quoting Chamath on the rationale for the Facebook Platform is like quoting the current management of Boeing on how to build a plane. If you want the real story on the dynamics behind the Platform, and why it worked so incredibly well when it did, you'd have to talk to Dave Morin, but I'm not sure he'd like to revisit that period in his life. Dave's open, humble approach (something I think he'd picked up at Apple) attracted the best and brightest companies and programmers to the platform, and gave them the confidence needed to invest in building a presence there. Eventually a bunch of people inside of Facebook got jealous of the attention he was getting and had him demoted.

Chamath takeover and his self-dealing (investing in platform companies while overseeing it? really?) was a large part of the Platform's failure, not its success. People lost confidence, and confidence is the one thing that every platform — whether it's a piece of software, or a country's economy — really runs on. If you want to talk about platforms, and what they are, and what they aren't, that's really all it is. People who bring up a million other things and a random Bill Gates quote don't know what they're talking about.

Apple is strict and super-weird about some of their rules, but they're consistent. And it's in that consistency that they've been able to build a large, dominant platform. When people start to see cracks in that consistency — such as the recent Hey drama — both developers AND people within the company immediately freak out, and some statement is made (whether it's what the developers want to hear is another matter). They're also super consistent with most of their APIs and their timetables, which further encourages investment.

Facebook is pretty much the exact opposite of this, in every aspect of their business. Whether you're a newspaper or an Instagram model or a developer, you're never quite sure where you stand. While things built on top of Facebook might have large-scale near-term value, nobody's planning their next decade on there (even if suspicious can't-let-China-win government meddling and the Silicon Valley oligarchy keep them on top for that long).

<comment><USER9> This is one of those comments that seems interesting and believable because it's so confidently stated. But is any of this speculation actually accurate?

I agree with the second half of the comment. Facebook has been capricious, and thus it's hard to trust building on top of them for the long term. But the first few paragraphs just seem like unsubstantiated gossip.

<comment><USER10> TBH that's true for the original article too. I feel that most of these opinion pieces are 'just so' post-facto explanations. I'd rather have a prediction market where people put predictions and confidence values along with detailed explanations, and then we can see in a few years how things play along.

It's very easy to make confident pronouncements when they are basically unfalsifiable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Apple's moat has increasingly become incentivised of late by being the privacy-conscious option to its competitors - thanks primarily to Google's infringement of the same

<comment><USER12> I think tech people fundamentally misunderstand how the privacy-conscious features of Apple resonate with the non-technical public.

The _vast_ majority of the public do not care, at all, about the type of data tracking that gets HNers so up in arms. That may be a bit of hyperbole - <USER2> may care a teeny bit, but the second they have to do something that is even the slightest bit inconvenient in order to get more privacy ("Why do I have to log in here again?") they'll bail.

What Apple has done, though, is frame privacy-consciousness in terms of _exclusivity_ and _luxury_. It's quite similar to how Tesla rebranded electric cars from dorky and stodgy to cool. Most people's experience with Apple's privacy-conscious features are Touch ID and Face ID. These felt really futuristic when they first came out. And the privacy messaging that Apple does is really great IMO: it's more along the lines of "With Google all your data is shared with crappy advertisers along with the rest of the unwashed masses. With Apple everything is safe and secure, and most importantly protected from their grubby little non-Jony Ive-approved hands."

This has real benefits to consumers (because the privacy advancements with Apple are _not_ just marketing, they're real), but people should understand Apple is still based around exclusivity and luxury, and privacy is just a part of that.

<comment><USER13> This is not supported by polling data. See for example:

[https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/11/15/americans- an...](https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/11/15/americans-and-privacy- concerned-confused-and-feeling-lack-of-control-over-their-personal- information/)

"Some 81% of the public say that the potential risks they face because of data collection by companies outweigh the benefits, and 66% say the same about government data collection."

<comment><USER14> Asking people whether they care and making them prove it by subjecting themselves to the slightest inconvenience may result in different conclusions.

<comment><USER15> Exactly.

I only know two persons in real life (other than me) that care about data privacy and act on that. Of course if you ask most people they will say that yeah they care about privacy, but their actions tell a different story.

<comment><USER16> Most people simply haven't learned the hygiene yet.

It can be as simple as showing them to open incognito for specific searches or topics, or to install a trusted tracker blocking extension like ublock origin and set it up for them.

Managing app location privileges is a big one too, iOS is really good about nagging for background location permissions and I appreciate that a lot, but a lot of people don't realize if you give Facebook or another app "while using", you can bet money it will use it whenever you open the app.

[https://business.financialpost.com/technology/tim-hortons- ap...](https://business.financialpost.com/technology/tim-hortons-app-tracking- customers-intimate-data) The Tim Hortons app logged this guy's location 2,700 times in 5 months. He didn't find out until the iOS 13 background location warning.

[https://cdn.iphoneincanada.ca/wp- content/uploads/2019/06/ios...](https://cdn.iphoneincanada.ca/wp- content/uploads/2019/06/ios-13-location-data-apps.jpeg)

People care, most of them just aren't as literate as the typical HN user so they either don't have a clue what's really happening, or simply throw their hands up in the air.

<comment><USER17> > Most people simply haven't learned the hygiene yet.

There's an entire class of problems you cannot solve through 'hygiene.' Equifax, for example, collected data on you without your consent, and got in trouble for unintentionally giving it away when they're supposed to be getting money in exchange.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This article misses a lot: 1) Facebook doesn't necessarily need the IDFA for optimizing advertising -- SKAdNetwork leaves the door open for ads optimization, just not at the user level. This article reveals how little the author understands about digital advertising. 2) I don't believe this move by Apple increases its "moat" in any meaningful way. Apple was almost certainly motivated to deprecate the IDFA to protect consumer privacy -- the only way this enforces Apple's moat is by substantively differentiating Apple's privacy positioning from other hardware vendors. 3) If anything, deprecating the IDFA harms Facebook moreso than it helps Apple to improve its ability to grow its ads business. Apple has increased the scope of its Apple Search Ads business but deprecating the IDFA doesn't help it there except to level the playing field.

The author of this blog is at his best when he's going a mile wide and an inch deep on high-concept subjects like self driving cars and Amazon taking over retail. When he tries to go deep on specific topics, his lack of context often leads him to specious and, frankly, silly conclusions.

</comment><comment><USER19> Am I the only one who finds stratechery abstruse and hard to follow?

<comment><USER20> He has a concept playbook [1]. His MO is to tie current events back into the concept playbook. If you haven't been following along for a period of years, it is easy to get lost.

[1] [https://stratechery.com/concepts/](https://stratechery.com/concepts/)

<comment><USER19> Thanks for sharing. Will read this up. Hope that helps lose some of my disillusionment with Stratechery.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The part about Facebook becoming WeChat at the end and thus bypassing the restrictions Apple puts in place doesn't ring true unless Apple is prevented from restricting apps from building their own mini app stores for games: [https://9to5mac.com/2020/06/18/apple-refuses-facebooks- gamin...](https://9to5mac.com/2020/06/18/apple-refuses-facebooks-gaming- platform-on-the-ios-app-store/amp/)

</comment><comment><USER22> It's so hard to read articles like this that are constantly quoting themselves from 5 years ago.

<comment><USER23> I don't see why -- he's pretty consistent, and it's interesting to see his framing/narrative evolve.

<comment><USER22> Consistent and evolving? Seems contradictory.

<comment><USER24> I think the mental model is consistent, but the explanations and examples evolve.

Obviously like all models, these approximate reality.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Is the biggest threat to Apple web?

I would think so. Of course, it might not be as we know it. However, a world where content works across devices. APIs are standardized. Responsive to multiple sizes. Low barrier to entry and access. It seems to me that Web is the future. Note I say Web, and not browser. An integrated experience built on the web - like Firefox OS might be the open and free platform we need to build our own great experiences. Definitely something worth exploring.

<comment><USER26> 5 - 10 years ago I would have said the same and was sure the web would take over. I've done a lot of work on both web and native mobile platforms and these days I'm really less sure what the future looks like. If web apps do take over they won't be web apps like we know them.

<comment><USER27> If AR goes mainstream, I feel that way will be the nail in the coffin for any future where web-based apps rule the world. I just don't see how the web could compete with native AR apps that operate "close to the metal". The web still can't even provide a user experience even comparable to that of a standard mobile app

Edit: Keep in mind that I'm not saying web apps will disappear. Just that they might not have any more mainstream relevance than they have today

<comment><USER28> This is also my bet: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5J_6oMMG7Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5J_6oMMG7Y)

I have no idea how much of that video is real, but I think if the AR hardware is possible it's likely the next computing platform UI after mobile device displays.

Apple has been laying the platform groundwork for this for a while. If anyone can pull it off, I suspect it would be them.

I don't think the web will be able to compete with that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Apple's strategy here with privacy is just so great. From a regulatory standpoint, the EU can't be against it, and the US likes "anti-competitive behavior" when it benefits customers. Facebook, Google, et al will have to basically just live with Apple's choices here while suffering losses to their businesses.

</comment><comment><USER30> "make lemons out of lemonade." \- presumably the author meant "make lemons into lemonade" \- I can't comment on the article to correct so am doing so here.

</comment><comment><USER31> Man, I would buy it but I need wheels on mine.

</comment><comment><USER32> Apple is not in the user data business.

</comment><comment><USER33> It's sad to see somewhat bright minds, spending their life analyzing what companies are doing to maximize profit.

Why is that interesting and at what point do you notice that every move these companies make, is anti-human?

Take Apple: their entire business model is reliant upon the government _never_ waking up to enforcing open standards and protocols to ensure consumers get hardware-agnostic, operating system-agnostic, service-provider agnostic, company-agnostic tools and services, which is what everyone would agree we want, except the sociopaths who value profit over humanity and run these corporations.

That's what got everyone excited about Bitcoin for a hot second. That it finally escapes the walled gardens all technology is living under. Instead of fixing the walled gardens, these delusional fools think they can technology their way out of corporations owning all key infrastructure. Jesus Christ.

Back to Apple.

Apple's entire business strategy is creating a walled garden because it benefits _them_ , at the expense of everyone else. They give consumers crumbs and call it 'the biggest release ever'.

Facebook's entire business strategy is being a surveillance network, which is again, entirely reliant upon the government _never_ waking up to how creepy, immoral and counter-productive it is on so many levels! There are enough sociopaths in government who think oh good, a surveillance tool, we can make use of it! Good luck having Facebook regulated when we live in a corporatocracy folks!

Everything these big companies do is against the interests of human beings. People are just too dumb to see it because if you drip-feed them 'new emojis' and 'you can have a weather widget on your screen in 2020', they don't realize they are getting fucked!

Sorry, carry on with your 'analysis' of what these sociopaths are up to and pretending you have valuable insight, when the only sane insight to be had is 'these fuckers are out of control'.

<comment><USER34> > Why is that interesting and at what point do you notice that every move > these companies make, is anti-human?

Hyperbole if I've ever read it. "every move"? Is investing in clean energy to power all of their data centers anti-human as Apple has done? Is creating a $100,000,000 education fund for under-represented app developers anti-human? Is encrypting devices by default to protect privacy anti-human?

Now, as you can see I'm a bit of an Apple apologist and of course all of these are good PR moves. But every corporation is by definition just a "group of humans working together for profit." They will do good things for profit and they will do bad things for profit. But a group of humans working together for profit does not make every move they do "anti-human."

<comment><USER35> There are certainly shades of gray, but if I can speak on behalf of the post you are responding to, it seems their argument would be that it is a net negative, and that the "Good PR humanity" is relatively shallow in the end.

Consider a $100,000,000 education fund _for app developers_. Certainly, app development can be a gateway for some people, but once they develop apps, where do they go if not a market place that Apple tightly controls? They are a machine funding the creation of new cogs in this scenario.

If your overlords buy you an opulent dinner and provide you with a warm bed, it doesn't mean you are free.

Freedom can be a vague and high-minded ideal that obviously needs to be balanced with communal concerns, but I agree with the parent poster's overall disgust. It feels that a company like Apple is so big that they are beyond any societal control or regulation, and that is unacceptable. To hear their minions rush to their defense as if their interests are somehow aligned (they're not) is too much to handle sometimes. It's tiring.

<comment><USER34> You are free from entities that don't have coercive control over you. If there were no alternatives to the Apple ecosystem to get your work/social life/business done, then you would be correct, we are not free. However, iOS has <20% global marketshare[0].

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the App Store needs reform. Perhaps there should be some regulation, that's above my pay grade. Your level of disgust also to me feels like hyperbole.

0: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/236031/market-share- of-i...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/236031/market-share-of-ios-in- global-smartphone-os-shipments/)

<comment><USER35> Oh yes, the fabled <20% marketshare.

So where should I go from Apple if not into the waiting arms of Google/Android? Is that better?

This isn't actually a conversation specifically about Apple if you recall. It is a conversation about all such companies. And yes, your defense of Apple is a little cringe-y. Why do you need to defend such a behemoth in a conversation that is decidedly not dedicated to them? Per the parent comment--Why does HN obsess over the actions of these companies that are categorically not for anyone's benefit other than their own? That was the original question.

I honestly am asking you to reflect on it. Why do you care? What's it to you?

<comment><USER34> > I honestly am asking you to reflect on it. Why do you care? What's it to > you?

I care because I think there is a lot of misdirected energy and anger. In a world with racial injustice, starvation, poverty, etc. you choose this topic to be outraged about?

Well you have a right to your outrage. It's good some people are outraged because it keeps them on their toes. But at the same time I have a right to say I think your dialogue and vitriol is out-of-line with the reality of the situation, and hyperbolic at best. I am a counter-balance to your outrage and that's why I care.

<comment><USER35> That's a well-reasoned response which I can appreciate. But honestly, read my original post to which you replied. I said I shared the parent's disgust, but I don't think I'm really reveling in outrage or speaking in such extreme terms as you characterize.

I'll quote it...

> "There are certainly shades of gray, but if I can speak on behalf of the > post you are responding to, it seems their argument would be that it is a > net negative, and that the "Good PR humanity" is relatively shallow in the > end. Consider a $100,000,000 education fund for app developers. Certainly, > app development can be a gateway for some people, but once they develop > apps, where do they go if not a market place that Apple tightly controls? > They are a machine funding the creation of new cogs in this scenario.If your > overlords buy you an opulent dinner and provide you with a warm bed, it > doesn't mean you are free.Freedom can be a vague and high-minded ideal that > obviously needs to be balanced with communal concerns, but I agree with the > parent poster's overall disgust. It feels that a company like Apple is so > big that they are beyond any societal control or regulation, and that is > unacceptable. To hear their minions rush to their defense as if their > interests are somehow aligned (they're not) is too much to handle sometimes. > It's tiring."

Honestly, I use so much language to balance and mitigate my argument that it's overly verbose.

> "There are shades of gray", "relatively shallow", "Certainly, app > development can be a gateway for some people...", Freedom can be high-minded > and needs to be balanced,".

Is it possible to make this point passively enough to satisfy your requirements?

I'll also admit that the parent comment was a bit more extreme in it's tone. And I'll admit there are many injustices in the world that go beyond tech. But I think the underlying issue of acquiring and maintaining freedom of all kinds is valid.

It's like saying, "With racial inequality being what it is, how can you spend your time belaboring a point about campaign finance reform?" The answer is simple: Because one form of freedom (in this case, governmental representation) facilitates those adjacent freedoms (racial equality). The importance of one doesn't invalidate the importance of the other.

I'm like, not that outraged. But I am like, casually disgusted by people who seem to have allowed huge corporations to become so apart of themselves that they lose the ability to see some obvious flaws.

I love my iPhone. Apple is far from the worst of it. But there are some very disturbing trends in tech and the world that warrant our skepticism and yes, our disgust. That it is treated as normal is part of the problem.

<comment><USER34> > Apple is far from the worst of it. But there are some very disturbing trends > in tech and the world that warrant our skepticism

Well we can agree on that. I am basically speaking against the reductive argument "big corporation = bad."

Apple does good things and Apple does bad things. On balance I think they do more good than bad. We can have a debate about that. But we can't debate if the opposition just thinks big corporation = bad and no freedom. I chose Apple because that is the company that started this discussion.

<comment><USER33> > Take Apple: their entire business model is reliant upon the government never > waking up to enforcing open standards and protocols to ensure consumers get > hardware-agnostic, operating system-agnostic, service-provider agnostic, > company-agnostic tools and services, which is what everyone would agree we > want, except the sociopaths who value profit over humanity and run these > corporations.

Did you read this and the only conclusion you came away with, is big corporation = bad?

Feel free to address what's actually been said, rather presenting a straw man.

\--

Let me clarify why big corporation = bad is a straw man because I suspect some uneducated people may take your position seriously.

Big corporation = bad is in fact a truism, if the government that's supposed to regulate corporations, is not doing their job. This is political science 101.

There are people far more educated and likely smarter than you and I who don't consider USA a functioning democracy. Noam Chomsky considers USA a plutocracy. Have you studied this matter and have rebuttals to numerous arguments that he has presented to support his case?

<comment><USER34> > Let me clarify why big corporation = bad is a straw man because I'm suspect > some uneducated people may take your position seriously.

> There are people far more educated and likely smarter than you and I who > don't consider USA a functioning democracy.

You may have some good points, but your level of vitriol and overall tone really detracts from them. From the beginning where I pointed out your hyperbole, to your most recent comment where you're effectively calling people dumb and uneducated. If I need political science 101, then you need debate 101.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>