The Startup Life Is Not For Everyone - <AUTHOR> http://alexstechthoughts.com/post/61021544789/stop-trying-to-force-the-startup-life-on-everyone-it <comment><USER2> "One thing that is not spoken about in the early-stage tech world is how many startup founders come from money or stability. I'm by no means saying this applies to all founders or early-stage startup employees. But if you dig a little, you will see the "risk" that some of these people are taking is not as risky as they may seem."

This is really true. The business risk may be very real, but the personal risk for many is relatively limited. For some people, going without a steady income is to truly be without a safety net and risk having to sleep in a shelter. For me, when I started my company, I went in knowing that if we ran out of money, I could get a nice dev job within a few weeks and not only bounce back, but bounce _forward_ (or at least sideways). If things went _really_ sour, I might even have to move back to my hometown for a couple months. Gasp!

In this world, agency is a privilege that's hard to measure. I feel like sometimes people underrate their own and mythologize their self-madeness, but overrate that of others and pathologize them as lazy or cowardly.

<comment><USER3> Right. If I worked for a startup that went south, I'd be homeless.

<comment><USER4> There are a lot of people who take for granted that they have a family/town to return to if things go really bad. I've got that safety net and appreciate it very much. My wife (before she met me) did not. It's taught me a lot and makes me cringe when people start talking about "risking it all".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As a 46 year old, white male with almost 20 years of IT experience, what I hear a lot of these startups saying is, "We don't really give a shit about you, your life or your time. We want to suck out a decades worth of input in 2-3 years and when you burn out, fuck you. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out."

Who wants to live like that? These expectations will continue to gradually get WORSE...if you can imagine that. Until (and if) they run out of new recruits who don't know any better.

The fact that a startup founder tweeted "disappointment" about a very personal choice that a developer made makes me inclined to believe that I would run very, very, very far away from working for this person.

<comment><USER6> You see that as a downside. I see it as an upside.

I'm in the same place as you (42/20), and I've always _loved_ working for startups. Just make sure they're paying you by the hour (contracts are best) and let them suck as much of your experience out as they need. And be sure to charge accordingly, since the thing you're selling isn't your butt in a seat, but the 20 years of accumulated knowledge and that giant \code\ folder on your hard drive with the solution to every problem they could conceivably have solved half a dozen times for previous gigs.

Incidentally, "2 years, then dodge the door" is a great way to get one's self acquainted with tons of technology and stay up to date on the flavor of the month while always having a good explanation for moving from job to job. Better still is "6 months then straight into the ground", having build something big and cool from a green field and watched the kids burn through their VC while buying you and the dev team fun toys to play with.

I guess it's all about outlook. If you look at it as them taking advantage of you, well, maybe they are. If you look at it as them needing you a lot more than you need them, well, that's a pretty fun (and lucrative) place to be.

Edit: To be clear, in the above scenario, 40 hour work weeks (or whatever makes sense for you) are non-negotiable. They are free to work 60 hour weeks if they like. Your contract should include the understanding that you don't plan to follow suit. Extra hours should be rare, on your terms, and well paid.

<comment><USER7> I have a slightly different view (43/20).

I like to work for small companies that have a bit of startup thinking (let's get things done, build cool stuff and be open minded about fresh and contrarian ideas) but that are run by people who have a more balanced view of how much time their employees should work.

At my stage in life (speaking only for myself), I don't buy into those BS sales jobs from hiring managers of getting rich on options, working until you're burnt out because you're changing the world, etc.

<comment><USER8> Only work on contract. Only bill by hour, day, or week (depending on how good you are). I don't believe in loyalty to a company or scene. I'm here to make money to fund my own life, that's it.

<comment><USER7> It is one way to go, but I think it's still important to set limits.

Getting paid by the hour by a company willing you pay you overtime to be overworked still means that there's a risk of burning out.

<comment><USER8> I charge more for hours beyond 9-5.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The cool thing about starting your own business is that you can build it however you like.

You can work 80 hour weeks or 10 hour weeks. Your choice. You can neglect your friends, family and health, and work yourself into the ground. Or not. Again, entirely up to you.

Surprisingly, the end result will probably be roughly the same. If you're good at building software, and work in bursts like most of us do, then a few good deep sessions a week will get your thing built plenty fast. And since so much of the other 90% of building a successful business is measured in "calendar time", it really doesn't hurt much if you don't get in 60 good hours one week.

Naturally, if you take VC money, they might prefer you do things the "normal" way. Fortunately, that's another thing you get to decide whether you want to do.

<comment><USER9> The freedom is indeed one of the biggest draws but I've found that with any degree of success there is also an automatic reduction in freedom because your responsibilities go up. Hard to balance that.

<comment><USER10> This is a pretty insightful statement. I would modify that a little bit from 'success' to advancement. In academia you non-academic duties increase as you advance. I've seen a handful of people pull things off such that they have a small lab and don't put in for promotion (they stay associate or instructor). They trade pay for less management duties.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Frankly, I'm surprised the attitude of many people seems to be: "I'm going to work at an established company for X years to get experience, then break off to start my own."

Then they write blog posts and postmortems about how they lost their friends and spouses, became horribly unhealthy and severely depressed. But it was worth it in the end, of course.

</comment><comment><USER12> The article talks about startup founders having low risk because of money and stability, and that's absolutely true in my experience (especially of people who jump into startups immediately out of college).

What the article fails to mention, and I think is just as important, is that the RELATIVE risk of the startup lifestyle continues to decline as traditional, "stable" jobs slowly become a thing of the past. I'm part of a small (but growing) freelancer agency, and when I try to convince others to join my firm, relative risk is a large part of my pitch.

When the "safe" option is to work at a bank or consulting firm, is it really all that safe? Many students think so, but have to be reminded that some of these firms average less than two years of tenure per new employee. Large tech companies have been somewhat safe over the past 5-10 years, but still put you at the mercy of corporate-scale layoffs that may have more to do with your product and the company's finances than your skills.

In a startup or small company, the risks are much more upfront and come with corresponding compensation, usually in the form of equity with growth potential. Large companies typically do not reward their employees for the risk they assume, because there is a perpetuated assumption that they provide a high level of security. So if we're all forced to bear a high level of risk, at least we should be compensated for it.

</comment><comment><USER13> This is an interesting perspective. However, I come for a different vantage point: I'm a terrible employee and I feel that the world worked hard to force a "corporate career path" on the wrong guy for years. Perhaps startup life should be always an anomaly because it isn't for everyone, but it's the only place I've ever felt like I was a meaningful part of meaningful work.

I do think it's still underrepresented as an option, though that appears to be improving. Also, access to investment and radically cheaper startup costs have made this very difficult path just a little less difficult. I think it's an amazing time to start something, an amazing time to be an indy developer. I also think these early-stage laboratories will help replenish some of the SMBs America has lost on the street corners. Maybe the days where you can make a living as a local grocer are gone. But the days to make a living as an innovative, startup grocery delivery service are just beginning.

EDIT: It's timely that the post immediately under this one on the front page is "Pushed to the limit as a banking intern". Maybe it's just my nature, but I didn't work less in a corporate environment. I was just more disconnected to my work and the results. I didn't feel the same impact.

<comment><USER14> I'm not so sure your vantage point is that different. The issue here is risk. The bank engineer may love the idea of doing a startup, but if they're like me, it's vitally important that one's spouse and children get to eat every day. More important than having meaningful work. In reality the decision isn't that stark, but it does serve to highlight the thought process.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> One of the things we talk about a lot is how overtime and working more than 40-50 hours a week is always a management failure. We didn't raise enough money, or plan well enough, or get enough people, or understand what we were doing, etc. We work really really hard, but we make sure it's within those parameters, except in some really rare emergency scenarios.

During interviews, people always look at me like I have two heads when I try to actively talk them out of doing startup. It's not romantic, it's not horrible, it's just different. At different times people will be amenable to that lifestyle, but not always.

I get so tired of everyone talking about "startup life" and I think a lot of it is just tagalong marketing. We can't figure out ways of pumping up our businesses or what we're doing so we just tag onto this shiny intangible lifestyle that's already marketed by movies or other blogs.

Startup life has always been bullshit. Making cool things with great people has always been cool. No matter what stage you're doing that in.

<comment><USER16> I'm glad to read this, nemesisj. I was just reading last night the parameters for applying my startup idea for inclusion in the YC program, and was getting pretty excited that such a program exists.

I'm new to actually trying to be an entrepreneur (as opposed to just thinking about it), and it is encouraging to read that your version of working more than fairly-standard full time is management failure. I agree entirely.

<comment><USER15> I think the keys are to develop habits around working full-out during the day, planning well, not allowing yourself to inflict a culture that relies constantly on heroics for success, and taking responsibility for when things don't go as planned. That's hard to do, and requires true leadership. I've been on both sides (success and failure) in that area. Good luck!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> A 'startup' need not be something in Silicon Valley, based on information technology, venture funded, and intended for an exit at $1+ billion.

Working at GM, GE, IBM, Cisco, or any of a long list of other famous, big companies tends to be a long walk on a short pier and not a 'career' with which one can get hired, buy a house, support a family, grow in prosperity, pay for college for the kids, and retire comfortably.

Why? Such a career needs to last about 45 years, and in all of the history of the US since the Industrial Revolution there has been only a tiny fraction of jobs in large corporations that could be the basis of such a career.

E.g., might have joined IBM in 1950 and then, 44 years later, lost the job when the company lost $16 billion and went from 407,000 employees down to 209,000 and cleared out rush hour traffic jams in a large chunk of Upstate NY. That was about the best shot at a 45 year career in IBM: Join before 1950? IBM was not much of a company then. Join IBM after 1950? Likely the job would last less than the 44 years of my example.

GM? Shipped most of its jobs out of the US, helped Detroit and much of Michigan and much of the Midwest Rust Belt look like a war zone, and went bankrupt.

GE? Discovered that good products made in Japan sold quantity 1 retail in the US for less than the direct, marginal manufacturing cost at GE, and GE closed down big chunks of their business.

So, what's keeping people in the US employed? Mostly small businesses, especially ones with a geographical barrier to entry. Such businesses do need to be started and, thus, are _startups_. The US has millions of such businesses all across the US in big cities down to towns that are just crossroads. Net, _startups_ are most of what is keeping the US economy running.

So, the broad idea that _startups_ are rare and strange with a lot of obscure aspects is a bit silly. E.g., long lists of points of tricky advice on just how to do a _startup_ are a big silly for nearly all US startups. E.g., in my neighborhood, the guys mowing grass show up with a relatively new truck worth, say, $30,000, towing a trailer with at least one lawnmower worth maybe $15,000 -- could plug together quite a server farm for that much cash.

</comment><comment><USER18> I think that while it's certainly not for everyone I think there's a powerful reason to overly emphasize and encourage it.

Not to promote needless suffering, but rather simply because, at the end of the day, they are one of the principle sparks that makes the other jobs possible. My relatively stable corporate existence, even if plagued by all the hallmarks of big dumb corporatism(s), is a blessing (and I do consider it a blessing, especially for where I'm at in my life) that was made possible by a key core of individuals who were the ignition points for the seeming stability I have access to now.

I believe that the very reason to push, even to some excess, even to the point of some idealizing, of start-up life is among a few vital needs that must be fulfilled in a society if that society has hopes to insure longer term availability of stable options among all possible economic paths.

Like industrialized agriculture, for all of it's ills, evils and problems, the shear population, as it exists and continues, demands some version, some manifestation, of a system that shares at least some of the key attributes.

Start-up culture is both the seeding and blood letting that makes stable private and public professions possible. In many ways it's the agriculture of our day. Subject to whims of forces akin to climate and nature, but who's volatility makes all the growth and upward movement possible.

</comment><comment><USER19> What's all this gunk about "startups aren't for everyone, they're HARD WORK"?? A big-company job is hard work too, if you're a driven person.

<comment><USER20> It's not about hard work, it's about how much of who you are must be devoted to the career. I work very hard at a 400 person company. but I get to go home after about 42-48 hours a week and enjoy being me. That involves chess, guitar, politics, and billiards. Founders and ground floor engineers ARE the business, the code, and the company.

<comment><USER7> This is important. I'll also bet you get some of your best work ideas during your downtime too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Studies have shown that people are much happier when they're doing self- directed work.

I also think that lamenting losing talent to a bank might have more to do with the perceived negative value that modern banks bring to humanity.

</comment><comment><USER22> I just did three startups, all back to back, in NYC. I needed a break and less risk in my life. I got a sudden mid-life urge to settle down so I moved to the suburbs and I now have an easy, well paying, enterprise job. No teams to manage, no insane schedules, no Sunday morning phone calls, no 80 hour weeks, no more high blood pressure or anxiety attacks. No equity either, but I'll sacrifice that now for my non-startup job. Just a 40 hour work week and great salary/benefits. I won't get rich. But I'm okay with that at this moment. I do want to start a business in the future, but it will be a lifestyle business where I can set my own hours and pick my projects.

<comment><USER23> I'm in year 14 of my corporate job after three startups in the 90s (yes, we had them back then.) I can't believe how great my current job is but I'm still thinking about going back to startups once the job security is less important (e.g. once my kids are rich enough to support me!)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> In terms of what you said about risk, I think most of the time when people talk about a startup being a risk what they mean is that the business itself is risky, that it's most likely going to fail. While sometimes it might be the case most of the time I don't think people are talking about any personal or financial risk to the founders, though that's just my perception and what I've always understood it to be meant when people talked about risk in a startup. Of course, a founder can definitely take on some personal or financial risk in a startup but I've rarely seen or heard of cases like that, when we talk about startups most of the time we talk about some sortof VC funded entity. Although plenty of small businesses are funded by the business owner, but most small businesses aren't really "startups" either.

Finally, there is the risk of failure to the founders, which can be quite demoralizing and possibly personally devastating, especially if it's the first time. I think how much a failure would impact someone just depends on their personality and how easily they can mentally move on, even if it didn't have any major financial impact. I mean, it is quite a bit of time and effort that could be wasted on something that ultimately fails; unless you view it as a learning experience and draw the right lessons and are able to move on to the next thing, whether it's another startup or more stable employment at a company that already went through the risky phase and won.

</comment><comment><USER25> Many aspects of this post somehow resonated with me. I spent many years in corporate employment because I don't have any backup options. I also feel like I've wasted some time where others learn more about business the hard way. I'm now part of a startup, after my last jobs were with banks, and I believe the route from startup to corporate or the other way around can lead to a similar destination. The only difference is what experience you bring to the table, and a wider range of it is better for everyone.

</comment><comment><USER26> This is a straw man argument ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)).

No one is saying that startups are for everyone. People just say that they're undervalued. The upside is ignored (probably because of scope insensitivity [[http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Scope_insensitivity]](http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Scope_insensitivity\])), and the risks are misunderstood.

</comment><comment><USER27> Most folks work hard at any job, in this economy. Why not a startup, where you share equity?

There's a lot of FUD about startup life, but really its just work, except with ambitious peers and cool projects. Sure it might fail at any time, but so can any job (speaking as a guy laid off from Dell when Dell never laid people off).

I like this fable: we're surfing, swimming, diving off the coast. A big boat comes by, and the people lean over the rail and say "Hey! Get out of the water! There are sharks and fish and pointy coral in there! And you're getting all wet and hot! You will probably drown!"

You can laugh, and try to explain that is pretty easy to swim, and you're all looking out for each other, and sharks don't really attack people very often, but you will never ever convince those dry people on the boat that its ok, really, and actually pretty fun out there.

</comment><comment><USER28> There are many paths other than "work as a corporate drone" or "go all in on a risky startup". There are a good number of resources out there which can help you figure out how to set up a small SaaS business online or become a consultant. For example, check out Patrick (patio11) McKenzie's blog, or the Startups for the Rest of Us podcast.

The thing is, if you read Hacker News, Tech Crunch, and the like, they give the impression that you need venture capital to be a success. This is due to editorial bias on the part of the site owners. Start looking farther afield and trying things on your own and you'll notice that the promotion of venture capital is quite self serving.

</comment><comment><USER29> I honestly think that these days if you're young and are not an engineer or something similar that's got jobs chasing you, being an entrepreneur (not necessarily a startup) is the only option.

Also, people in general believe their choices are the best choices and will go to great lengths to tell everyone that their own choices were better. Just one of those gorgeous biases we've got.

<comment><USER30> There's more to retail than shelf-stockers. Would you count running a brick- and-mortar store as being an entrepreneur?

<comment><AUTHOR> I would. Again, small biz VS startup.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I object to the whole context of an article that misuses the language to make its point.

No one is "forcing" anyone to pursue a startup life.

</comment><comment><USER32> But no one is judging anyone, right?

</comment><comment><USER33> The author also doesnt mention that "open desk" and round the cloack hackathons doesnt necessarily devlop the most creative or stable software. I've seen good stuff written at a more measured pace.

</comment><comment><USER34> Stop writing about Stop something, only to get some visitors to your page.

If anybody stop doing something, because somebody said to stop, then nobody will do anything.

</comment><comment><USER35> "IT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE."

whenever i hear "it's not for everyone" i always hear that little bit of condescension.

</comment><comment><USER36> This is oversensitivity. No one has ever tried to force the startup life on me and if someone tried to shame me into it I would laugh in their face.

Now, if this were an article about established companies treating their employees like they were in a startup, you'd have something there.</comment>


All InfoSec News in One Place - pat-jay https://allinfosecnews.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Needs an RSS feed.

<comment><USER2> Features I'd like them to add:

* Timestamps on each article

* colour code issues across all sites (for example, all articles related to the ASUS hack could have a light pink background colour, to group them together)

<comment><USER3> Somewht off topic: Always amazed how many blogs, guides, etc have no timestamp, even just a year would be enough for many things.

Have blindly followed blog posts on "how to install X to fix Y" only to soon discover it's for versions over a decade old and causes all sorts of mayhem on a modern OS.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> No exploit-db and seclists?</comment>


How Tablets Will Transform Construction - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/11/tablets-will-transform-construction/ <comment><USER3> PlanGrid shows how wrong people were to think the iPad was just a toy. It turned out to be the last remaining thing the construction industry needed to go digital. I doubt Steve Jobs knew that when Apple released the iPad. Nor did we know it when we published RFS 6 (<http://ycombinator.com/rfs6.html>). But they knew and we knew that they were onto something.

What other industries have been waiting for the iPad? If you want to build what they need, we'd love to fund you.

<comment><USER4> Since I'm not competing in that industry anymore, I'll chime in.

If we can solve the problem plaguing small (1-5) to mid-size (5-10+) private medical, dental, and veterinary practices with a single, seamless interface for their various specializations and needs (hook into Front Office, back end, supply chain, mgmt of outsourced services like crowns/bridges/dentures and lab cultures/tests).

Everything I've seen working with practice management software is that the only difference is the hook into either AMA (CPT), ADA, and VM/VT (for veterinary practices) codes for procedures and conditions. Everything else is standard app stuff in my estimation.

Hard to pull off, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't get it. If there is such a need for this, why wasn't it met with software on any of the sylus based tablets that came out over the last 15 years? Was their hardware to heavy and clunky? Because it seems to me that for serious work, especially making fine notes on a blue print, the accuracy of a stylus over a fingertip would be very valuable.

<comment><USER6> I'd say the reason it didn't happen earlier was wireless communications and batteries.

There just weren't any devices with enough wireless bandwidth to throw huge design prints around, and the batteries on small devices that use a lot of radio have only just got over the 8 hour mark needed to get through a work day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I've worked from prints in construction, (HVAC, electrician) and I've got a question and a couple general objections.

1.) Do capacitive touchscreens work through work gloves? I'd use a stylus, but it'd have to be big and thick to use with gloves.

A.) The tablet would have to be waterproof and more durable than the current model ipad. Battery life isn't so much of a problem. (I plug in my flashlight and work phone at the end of the day anyway)

B.) It also has to be cheaper, because ruggedized models will get destroyed anyway. (Dropping them off the tops of scissor lifts, scoring the surface of the screen, etc)

All this seems to imply that wearable displays (ala Rainbows End) would work better for construction.

<comment><USER8> Hence why all my family members who work in construction have very cheap Nokia phones. The problem is solved.

They work in crappy environments, cost $20 to replace (my father in law has 5 of the things in his truck) and last days on a battery. They also tend to still work if you drop them lots.

Also, technology doesn't really help construction that much really unless it's on a large scale (which actually makes up a very small proportion of actual work done).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I grew up in my dad's architecture firm (literally, he worked day and night so when I was sick from school I used to bunk between massive cabinets of blueprints ...), so I've seen (and run) more blueprints than 99% of the humans on the planet. I can't help but think of all the scribbles and marks and pencilings that happen on a blueprint, not to mention physical seals and architect's signatures, etc. There's so much more to paper than just the initial drawing. What timeframe and technological advances are you counting on before widespread adoption and replacement ("adios blueprints!") really becomes feasible?

</comment><comment><USER10> Woobious (Swombat's startup) has been in this space for while. I am rather surprised that they have not done stuff with the tablet form factor.

WoobiusEye is <http://woobiuseye.com/> is practically made for the tablet.

Edit to give feedback on the site: </comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>====

It would help to have screenshots of your app to show (Architects are visual)how it is different from any normal document manager. I guess it is, but I do not really have time to download and find out.

It is a good idea, addressing a big market. Good one.

</comment><comment><USER11> First of all, I should probably disclose that I am a construction industry professional of some sort (architectural training, science training, currently an MEP engineer).

Several problems with the article.

The "poor guys in the field". Who are they? Why have they "gotten worse and worse"? Have they? (They have a far greater financial interest in improve efficiency than it is for the more "professional" end of the construction industry - at least in UK)

These "guys in the field"... something tells me it'll be a while before a main contractor starts giving all his workers ipads.

What's the cost per tablet? how many would be needed? How much training in the use of various software would be required? (for people who may not be particularly prone to... using elaborate software). A typical construction worker might work for a main contractor (via various subcontractors) for a total of 6 months. I'm sure they'd be happy to leave with an extra bonus of a tablet after that. How well does a tablet perform when its screen is caked in concrete?

Then there's the issue of the software. Some of this "amazing software" - (i'm going to pick on Revit as that's what I'm most experienced in) requires a supercomputer to run. If that's how the information is organised, then where is it going to be filtered down to the needs of the contractor in question, (who is "asking the question of the architect")

(According to the article, Revit architecture = amazing software. This I wholeheartedly dispute. For many reasons, but that's another story)

At this point I should point out that the "much better communication" bit is quite inaccurate where it details the process of an RFI. For a start - <USER2> is a cheap way for all workers to have the information at hand - ie with them there and then - not in the "trailer".

Once these over-estimates of the time currently spent are taken out, the two are broadly similar. Replace "looks at problem and makes notes on plans" with "looks at problem, cleans his hands, tries to navigate clunky over elaborate BIM model on underpowered tablet, finally finds relevant part of large and complex building, annotates it, uploads to central server via wi-fi.

The bit about tablets being already massively adopted in construction industry has a link to someone using their ipad essentially for accounting purposes. Sure. People already do this all the time, with smartphones. Nothing to see here.

There's a throwaway comment about green buildings in there as well. To which I say the following:

The typical design lifespan of a building nowadays is 40-60 years. What about when they're demolished quicker than this though, perhaps because they're shit? How green is it to cut costs everywhere to result in a nasty piece of urban fabric which is subsequently destroyed, to be replace, even if it's covered in eco tech? What's the lifespan of a really well considered building which grows and flourishes with the love of those who experience it?

Also, new "BIM" software is often marketed as being able to enable "greener" building design. My current experience suggests it will be 5 years or so before its even slightly adequate at this. The calculation procedures offered are terrible, constrained and offer nowhere near the flexibility or creativity of a good old spreadsheet. Yet they slow down the spatial modelling process and provide inertia to change, iteration and flexibility. There's a lot to be said for centralising information storage (whilst contextualising it with a 3D model), yet at present this is beyond the practical means of most hardware (I personally doubt this, and attribute it to sloppy/inefficient software design. But this isn't my field – I imagine everyone else @ HN knows a lot more on this)

It may seem that I'm an anti tech luddite from this post, but nothing could be further from the truth. I'm reasonably young (late 20s) and generally embrace technological progress.

Also, it can't be denied that the construction industry is very staid and has much inertia against change.

However, I think that there is a lot of external pressure on the industry to adopt new technologies imposed from outside, as they are "the future" etc. In many cases, the technology is not appropriate to the situation at hand.

Building design is then adapted to the needs of the software, rather than the other way round. This results in a lot of terrible buildings (which are, it goes without saying, produced cheaply and efficiently). This is a massive shame, as buildings are part of the shared cultural capital of our civilisation and are unavoidable. Just because you don't work/live in a building, it doesn't mean you don't have to experience it.

Anyway, that's probably enough for now. I can probably elaborate on all sorts if people are interested.

<comment><USER12> _I'm sure they'd be happy to leave with an extra bonus of a tablet after that. How well does a tablet perform when its screen is caked in concrete?_

Repeating part of a comment I made a few days ago:

Folks have been talking about tablets being a natural fit for the construction market, and frankly I don't see it (at least for field work). Construction sites are nasty places - dust, concrete, bentonite, slurries, oil & grease, rain, snow, heat these are not good things for an expensive tablet to be around.

Furthermore, the trades guys are hard are their equipment. When it's time to go to lunch, stuff gets thrown in the trunk bed or on the passenger seat of the truck as they rush off. Even if a tablet survives the abuse, those guys rarely lock or raise the windows of their trucks on the job, so I wouldn't expect the tablet to be there when the contractor gets back from his break.

I think the potential is there, but tablets need to become more "disposable" first. On the other hand, there may be decent acceptance from engineers and supervisors.

 _Also, it can't be denied that the construction industry is very staid and has much inertia against change._

I would disagree with that, construction is generally such a low-margin business that (IME) contractors are willing to try new things if it can mean lower bids or higher profit margins. But they have to be convinced first that change makes sense.

<comment><USER13> It's standard operating procedure in many palaces to drive a truck over a new mobile phone model then dunking it in a bucket of water before accepting them. There is no reason that tablet's can become at least that rugged.

Second, there are a fair number of 200$ tablets out there bumping that 50$ for a rugged case and you can make something that lasts long enough for minor increases in efficiency to quickly pay for it. So, IMO the real question is can a tablet increase the average construction workers efficiency by 2+% with good software and I think that's vary doable. (2% efficiency for someone making 10$ an hour would pay for tablet in a little over 6 months getting the average lifespan of a tablet to 6 months seems vary doable.)

<comment><USER14> _It's standard operating procedure in many palaces to drive a truck over a new mobile phone model then dunking it in a bucket of water before accepting them. There is no reason that tablet's can become at least that rugged._

Structural integrity declines exponentially. An 1/8th inch piece of glass the size of a credit card is pretty durable. That same piece of glass the size of a sheet of paper is rather delicate. On top of that, a phone screen provides a smaller target for falling debris.

So, even if touchscreen phones become popular on the jobsite, it will take significant additional engineering to get tablets there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> My father has been in the commercial construction industry for 30+ years. I am an iOS developer that runs a contracting company where we write software for niche professional markets. Let's just say I've spent a long time thinking about iPad projects for the construction industry, none of which are active projects. Let me tell you why.

The construction industry operates with a margin that reasonable people think is insane. If you're a software developer, it's a total paradigm shift. Companies do $500M in construction and post $500k net profit. One mistake and you're so far in the red you will never get out.

If you think software development has competitive pressure e.g. from overseas, you ain't seen nothing. Unless you are designing Apple stores, you are doing bid work. Although construction is composed of many expert disciplines, each of which have competitive protection, on a broad level one general contractor is as good as any other. You may have two master electricians serving an area that are basically insulated from competition with other electricians, but they may contract to 10 general contractors who interface with the client, companies that have no real competitive differentiator from each other than price. This forces the 10 general contractors to compete for the client's business, often comprised of an overlapping set of skilled trade personnel, essentially on the basis of how many corners they can cut and still pass inspection.

And you want these people to buy a bunch of iPads? While they are debating the merits of breaking the building code to save costs? You can sell this to specialty contractors, to the people who build Disney parks and Black Mesa, but not the vast majority who answer RFPs.

Yes, this product has the potential to prevent mistakes, but contractors carry insurance for that. Unless they get a break on the E&O rates that exceeds the cost of deploying the iPads, it's not going to happen. Not in an environment when "sue me" is your standard conflict resolution mechanism.

Next problem. A general contractor's job is like herding cats. You're lucky to get a drywaller who shows up on time and works 8-hour days. Never mind reads a set of _paper_ plans. Never mind goes to training to use an iPad. You have some shot at getting the office people, all five of them, using a system like this, but five seats per job site at $50/seat doesn't sound like a business model to me.

Next problem. Architects like to plan fancy IP games with blueprints. Want a third copy of that blueprint? You must take it to our specialty printer who kicks us back a royalty on every blueprint plan they print. Not everyone is like this, but the low-priced architects are. And now you can't get the plans to put into your iPad system.

Kudos to these guys for trying, but there's a lot more to be solved here than just "hurr durr put a PDF on an iPad" product. There are fundamental realities of the construction business model that have to be hacked to make writing iPad software for that market into a sustainable business. I certainly hope these guys prove these problems are solvable, because there are many niche products I've been thinking about doing in the same market, but the TechCrunch writeups I've seen so far don't really explain how they are going to solve these problems (perhaps deliberately; if it was me I wouldn't want to tell everyone how to solve these problems if I knew).

</comment><comment><USER16> Blueprints, communication and analytics are great. But really revolutionary technology for construction would be something like that:

[http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/grasp- lab-q...](http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/grasp-lab- quadcopters-construct-towers-autonomous-swarms)

</comment><comment><USER17> Just an OT anecdote, but I can't tell you how much better my iPad has made me at fixing cars. Especially cars with lots of forum space.

I never even wonder what size that bolt is on my Ford pickup because someone on a forum already has detailed, annotated pictures of the whole procedure. Its been years since I've even cracked a Chilton's.

</comment><comment><USER18> Do you guys have an API? I have a web solution for construction contractor that could benefit from that: <http://ontakeoff.com>

</comment><comment><USER19> Samsung is starting flexible screen production.. live blueprint in roll ?</comment>


Progress and research in cybersecurity: report from the Royal Society [pdf] - <AUTHOR> https://royalsociety.org/~/media/policy/projects/cybersecurity-research/cybersecurity-research-report.pdf <comment><AUTHOR> My comments on some of the key findings of the report are here: [https://www.benthamsgaze.org/2016/07/13/cybersecurity- suppor...](https://www.benthamsgaze.org/2016/07/13/cybersecurity-supporting-a- resilient-and-trustworthy-system-for-the-uk/)</comment>


Facebook pays $238k to settle lawsuit and will halt political ads in WA state - <AUTHOR> https://www.fastcompany.com/90286760/facebook-pays-238000-to-settle-lawsuit-will-halt-political-ads-in-washington-state <comment><USER2> I like this quote "And many political ads—like those linked to the Russian government in 2016—may not make specific reference to the election, voting, or to a particular candidate." Is this sarcasm or not?</comment>


FunBrush – interactive toothbrush for kids - <AUTHOR> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/789023900/funbrush-because-childs-smile-is-the-most-importan

<comment><USER2> This is a great idea, I really hope it takes off. Ordering one for my little brother.</comment>


Ask HN: Please criticize my idea =) OMyBills.com - w-ll http://OMyBills.com

<comment><AUTHOR> 1) It's "What's the Big Idea?" and not "Whats the Big Idea?". And there are more spelling/grammar issues on the "About" page.

2) The layout seems a bit off: <http://i47.tinypic.com/jj7hpg.jpg>

3) Many banks now offer this sort of feature with their online banking. What makes yours better or different?

</comment><comment><USER2> This problem has already been solved sufficiently. I use Google calendar and its reminder feature.

<comment><USER3> You can also get reminders through mint.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Are there still bills that can't be automatically paid?

<comment> w-ll What. We don't pay the bills. We just bug you to pay them yourself.

<comment><USER4> Why would I want a reminder for bills I never have to see or think about because they're already paid automatically?

It's not that I think your solution is bad. I just think you're solving a non- problem.

<comment><USER5> "It's not that I think your solution is bad. I just think you're solving a non-problem."

I second this, although for totally different reasons. I use mint.com, the credit card sites, or just gcal with email reminders. I personally wouldn't use something like this -- why use something so specific, when a general tool that I currently use does the _exact_ same thing?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain? - <AUTHOR> https://www.1843magazine.com/features/will-there-ever-be-a-cure-for-chronic-pain <comment><USER3> Tangent from the article, but when I read the headline I thought I'd at least share in case it helps anyone who might have chronic pain like I've dealt with lately.

For years now I've been suffering from tons of weird shit. I've had this persistent painful skin rash that pops up all over my body. Steroids would kill it for awhile but it would always come back. Folks would ask me if I had burned myself when they'd see places on my skin. Just chalked up to an allergy from my doctors (to what? many things they guessed).

To top that fun off, my knees and one shoulder have been killing me. Had trouble walking up stairs. Couldn't do pull-ups anymore without extreme pain. I'd wake up in pain. Just constant pain. People just chalk that up to me getting older. Arthritis I guess.

But then my wife felt like trying to do some Whole 30 kind of thing. I hate this stuff. But whatever. She needed support so I went along with it. Cut out gluten, dairy, alcohol, sugar. Low-carb. High protein.

And after a week: I could move my arm above my head again. Walking up stairs became normal. Huh! Cool!

I thought, maybe my body just needed a reset and gave that diet up.

All this stuff came back.

Now realize how important it is for me to stay on a low-carb diet. It doesn't seem to be gluten or dairy getting me. But sugar, alcohol and carbs. And I wouldn't say I was that bad at eating those before. But clearly I'm super sensitive to them.

Today, I stay on a low-carb diet. I cheat on Saturdays. Allow myself to eat the nominal sugary treat and have a couple alcoholic drinks. But I barely want to since my life is just like a billion times better.

All that joint pain is gone. My skin has cleared up. I'm doing pull ups again. Running a ton. Just did 8.5 miles today.

So, all I know, is if you feel like shit constantly, it might be worth throwing sugar and alcohol away. Might be worth trying an elimination diet. I can't believe how long I laughed this stuff off when clearly it's so incredibly important and has transformed my life.

Edit: I forgot to mention the brain fog I was living with too. There was a fluid in my ears screwing with my balance. Felt like I had a head cold. Also has cleared up.

<comment><USER4> Sounds like your body was having trouble making collagen

<comment><USER3> Oh! That's interesting. Sure does sound like that. Thanks for the heads up! Huh. Glad I posted this.

<comment><USER5> Wow, great comment Nate that was rewarded with some equally eye opening advice for you to look into. I'd like to echo your message of some type of elimination diet being a valuable experience for anyone. I did the Whole 30 as well and it truly is amazing to discover how what you eat can have such a profound effect on how you feel. As I write that it seems so silly and obvious but until you really get a "reset" it's easy to get used to feeling pretty average to lousy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Oof.

To answer the headline, there already is a cure to chronic pain and it is called correct diagnosis.

When i was 21 I had chronic pain for 8 months, doctors gave me anti-biotics, NSAIDS, steroids.....but pain was just there. After months of research I found a surgeon in California, who performed surgeries on "Sports Hernia", almost like inguinal hernia without any bumps. I flew out to have the surgery, pictures taken during showed almost total rips of internal/external obliques in my groin area. This was not picked up by an MRI, as specific MRI settings need to be used. When I called different MRI places to talk about settings they did not know what the hell I was talking about. If I did not do my own research, I would literally still be living with this pain. I mentioned sports hernia to at least 4 doctors and they said it is "rare".

Oddly enough I have symptoms of fibro, after flouroquinolone antibiotics reaction. It is very frustrating that doctors are ignoring the cause and going straight to medicating. Side effects of these drugs are widely under-reported, and many fibromyalgia patients actually are suffering from FQAD, which is flouroquinolone associated disability. It affects the neurological system and tendons/muscles.

There is some new research coming to the surface talking about possible mtDNA toxicity. This would be better treated with supplements that support mitochondria, rather than medication. Also, best treatment for tendinitis is eccentric exercise not NSAIDs or steroids.

Additionally, by focusing on treating pain only when there is widespread tendon issue for example, patients are feeling better, therefore, putting more load on tendons, leading to more damage but hey at least they are hooked on opiates, cymbalta or any other wonder drug they come up with.

I'm not saying there is no place for medicating pain, when pain is due to scar tissue, nerve damage or other. I just have a problem with doctors tossing whatever medication they can without doing proper research.

<comment><USER7> There is usually no cure for chronic pain. This is medical fact. Your case is not descriptive. It is usually not caused by scar tissue, or an infection. For example MRI reports are only slightly correlated with actual spinal pain. It generally involves an up modulation of pain sensation in the peripheral and central nervous system. It is worthwhile to investigate the cause but most people don't find a cure like you did. There is no cure for most chronic pain patients.

This is an extremely harmful answer. Do not listen to this person. If you have chronic pain, see a pain management specialist - a physiatrist or an interventional anaesthesiologist, or both. There are many non-opioid options that work extremely well. They can coordinate other care.

For example here's a Quora answer listing just a few treatments for chronic arthritis pain: [https://www.quora.com/What-do-I-do-as-a-chronic-pain- elderly...](https://www.quora.com/What-do-I-do-as-a-chronic-pain-elderly- arthritis-patient-whose-doctor-no-longer-wants-to-write-me-prescriptions-for- pain-medication-due-to-the-opioid-crisis)

<comment><USER8> You're falling into the classic trap of thinking doctors know everything, but sorry to say that's not even close to true. Most doctors know next to nothing about myofascial pain (even many that really should). I've seen multiple cases of mobility impairment and chronic pain that even well a respected orthopedic surgeon thought required surgery be corrected by aggressive bodywork, including trigger point myofascial release and dry needling.

<comment><USER7> No, I read science myself. I've read hundreds of journal articles. I know the condition. I read pharmacology textbooks.

You're espousing hippiedom and it's top comment because of left wing ignorance.

<comment><USER9> > left wing ignorance

Please don't be _that_ guy.

<comment><USER7> A leftie disgusted by the ignorance of the left?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Perhaps naive but from NPR this morning:

"For people who live with chronic pain, getting up, out and moving can seem daunting. Some fear that physical activity will make their pain worse. But in fact, researchers find the opposite is true: The right kind of exercise can help reduce pain."

[https://www.npr.org/sections/health- shots/2019/09/23/7548691...](https://www.npr.org/sections/health- shots/2019/09/23/754869132/exercising-to-ease-pain-taking-brisk-walks-can- help)

<comment><USER11> I can understand how, for some conditions, exercise could help, not just physically, but against the depressing effects of chronic pain.

But absolutely not for all conditions. For too long, doctors have pushed graded exercise programs for essentially _all_ chronic pain conditions, despite good evidence that it can be harmful, even _permanently_ , for some conditions (e.g. CFS).

I personally suffer from chronic pain, caused by small fiber neuropathy. I used to love walking, and I _want_ to exercise - but if I do too much it can take days or even weeks to recover. A few times, I'm fairly sure I made things permanently (or hopefully semi-permanently) worse.

So, yes, exercise does help some people, but we must be careful not to push it as the be all and end all.

<comment><USER12> >good evidence that it can be harmful, even permanently, for some conditions (e.g. CFS).

No, there is certainly no evidence that exercise can be permanently harmful for CFS. In fact, all the studies show that graded exercise is beneficial.

It's certainly true that exercising too hard for too long can be detrimental and can cause a crash, and patients do need to be careful. Exercise certainly isn't a cure for CFS, and I wouldn't recommend graded exercise myself, but it's untrue to say that there is evidence that it makes patients permanently worse.

<comment><USER11> It's not true to say there is no evidence[0-9].

The Cochrane review[10] that includes the PACE trial has also been beset with complaints about its methodology[11].

[0] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21334061/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21334061/)

[1] [https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/severely- af...](https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/severely-affected- me.pdf)

[2] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19521443/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19521443/)

[3] [https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/bringsli-20...](https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/bringsli-2014-me- nat-norwegian-survey-abr-eng-ver-2.pdf)

[4] [https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/de- kimpe-20...](https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/de- kimpe-2016-rapport-2.pdf)

[5] [https://www.nivel.nl/sites/default/files/bestanden/Rapport-d...](https://www.nivel.nl/sites/default/files/bestanden/Rapport- draagvlakmeting-CVS-ME-2008.pdf)

[6] [https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/eyssens- pem...](https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/eyssens-pem-get- primer-december-2017.pdf)

[7] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28847166/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28847166/)

[8] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28805516/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28805516/)

[9] [http://www.meassociation.org.uk/wp- content/uploads/2010/09/2...](http://www.meassociation.org.uk/wp- content/uploads/2010/09/2010-survey-report-lo-res10.pdf)

[10] [https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003200.pub7/full)

[11] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6176540/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6176540/)

<comment><USER12> While it's true that patient surveys generally report worsening after GET, that isn't quite the same standard of evidence as a Cochrane review. The Cochrane review had similar conclusions in 2004, long before PACE [1].

A detailed survey by Action 4 ME found that of patients who reported undergoing GET:

"11 Had NO professional input (had they therefore paced themselves ?) – mostly with positive outcomes 6 Were supervised by occupational therapists – all with negative outcomes 3 Had been sent to the gym- all negative outcomes!" [2]

When GET is done properly, it generally involves reducing activity first of all if the patient is already overdoing it, reducing stress, replacing stressful with non-stressful activity, using heart rate monitors, etc.

[1] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15266475](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15266475)

[2] [http://web.archive.org/web/20071019011737/http://www.afme.or...](http://web.archive.org/web/20071019011737/http://www.afme.org.uk/res/img/resources/AfME%20members%20survey.PDF)

<comment><USER11> We could argue back and forth in perpetuity about the quality of both the Cochrane review (for example, there are claims that their diagnostic criteria for even having CFS were not good enough) and the data against GET :)

My point was simply that there does exist a large body of evidence supporting my original comment, even if there is also evidence against it.

<comment><USER12> Wordpress pages and patient surveys are hardly a "large body of evidence".

<comment><USER11> We're descending into personal insults now?

That's my queue to bid you _adieu_

<comment><USER12> It wasn't intended as in insult, but I apologise and have edited my comment to remove that part.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> My dad has rheumatoid arthritis and is in constant pain. Even humeria doesn't help much.

Now I have started waking up in the morning with hands so stiff I can barely make a fist.

The pain doesnt bother me as much as the fear of being doped up on opioids. And the fact organ damage goes along with rheumatoid arthritis.

And to top it off every nut around you says weed or some diet will cure you. It's always cure not maintain or reduce but an outright cure.

<comment><USER14> I'm sure you're already on top of all of this and I hope you'll forgive the tangent, but if you're starting to get RA symptoms you should be acting now. It used to be the practice of rheumatologists to wait to treat until symptomatic relief was required by patients. That's no longer the case. The earlier you act and get on DMARDs (and you might even need to try a few before getting one that works or finding the one that works best. Humira was completely ineffective for me), the less cumulative joint erosion you'll experience, the sooner you'll likely be in remission, and the more likely you'll be to experience a later sustained DMARD-free remission.

Even if that's not the case and DMARDs don't completely solve the problem for you, there's a lot of options before opiods for symptomatic relief. From panadol, through NSAIDs (including the magical COX-2 selectives), and even steroidals.

Don't give up hope too early. Three years ago I couldn't dress myself. Today I just got back from a rock climbing holiday.

<comment><USER13> Thanks for the advice but even if the doctor told dad all that I'm not sure he'd understand. I've heard of DMARDs but never read up on them if I did tried to explain it to dad he'd never sit still to listen.

He's still quite strong sick as he is and age 76 he lifted and emptied a large bucket of rocks, then complained of shoulder pain. I think dementia and old age are a factor here too, poor judgement. People laugh at the joke "if that hurts don't do that" but it's too true.

He's on a couple of strong pain meds and steroids. He's a bit better now that he started oxygen he doesn't look as pale.

I'm glad to hear you're doing well it's a terrible disease not like there's a good disease. Just make sure to keep an eye on your lungs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> > Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

This is like asking "Will there be a cure for chronic being-sick?" \- this is meaningless. Chronic pain has innumerable possible causes. Suppressing the symptoms to stuff is not a cure.

<comment><USER16> If you look at the causal end, sure. But if you look at the symptom side, why not?

At the end of the day, pain is reducible to neurons firing in succession. If you can stop it, interrupt it, filter it or block it, you would have something.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Answering the headline: maybe, when we finish getting out of the 'steam age' of medicine.

Long term might grow closer to current science fiction. Very precise robotic surgery at an atomic level reconstructs whole bodies (my favorite case being the beginning of The Fifth Element), less extreme examples also exist and we might someday get to the point where "knives" are replaced with gentle 'unzipping' tools or even grey-goo that slowly scrubs over an area and just sets everything correct.

</comment><comment><USER18> This is a nonsensical premise to me masked by the fact that we use one phrase "chronic pain" to represent a huge range of experiences. And then because we have this one phrase we throw the other word cure in front of it like this semantic trick represents the possibility of achieving it.

I don't buy it. Chronic pain is a thousand different problems and I think it will be solved piece by piece by debugging those individual problems.

</comment><comment><USER7> Acute pain is a symptom. Chronic pain is a disease.

Most chronic pain is not directly connected with a root cause. Spinal MRIs for example are poor predictors of spinal pain. It is an upmodulation of pain sensation in the peripheral nervous system/brain stem. It isn't mental and it isn't psychosomatic - it is very real. And you can't just ignore it - <USER2> there are techniques in pain psychology that help.

This is hopeful, but then so are Nerve Growth Factor drugs and it isn't looking too good for them at the moment. The second to last drug in trials failed the safety trial. At any moment we could learn the last drug failed as well, and then the entire group is DOA. Drug development is horrible to wait on, for people that badly need the drugs.

Animal trials work in humans what, 10% of the time? This is great research, but it won't be a treatment for at least a decade, if ever :(

Here's WebMD saying the same thing about what chronic pain is: [https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/guide/cause-chronic- pa...](https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/guide/cause-chronic-pain)

"In many cases, however, the source of chronic pain can be a very complex and even mysterious issue to untangle. Although it may begin with an injury or illness, ongoing pain can develop a psychological dimension after the physical problem has healed. This fact alone makes pinning down a single course of treatment tricky, and it is why health care providers often find they have to try a number of different types of curative steps."

Psychological is wrong, there's nothing psychological about it - wrong part of the brain. The brain stem is not psychological, its neurological. Psychological techniques can help you cope, though.

<comment><USER12> Psychosomatic == real. If your heart rate increases when you are frightened, is that imaginary?

While some research shows changes in the brainstem, fMRI shows differences in blood flow in various parts of the brain associated with processing emotions. Right now we don't have a definitive answer as to what causes chronic pain. But we do know for certain that the parts of the brain dealing with pain are also involved in emotional processing.

It's actually very easy to demonstrate to yourself that pain _can_ be psychosomatic. If you're riding your bike and imagine falling off, you will experience _real_ pain. (At least, it happens for me, and I assume I'm not the only person who that happens to).

Here is an interesting fMRI study looking at the effects of pain processing in both fibromyalgia patients and healthy participants:

[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1016/j.ejpain.200...](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1016/j.ejpain.2008.06.010)

<comment><USER7> Chronic pain is not psychosomatic. That has nothing to do with chronic pain. People like to blame the patient, that they're not trying hard enough to will their way through it... like you do through any other challenge. That is a really harmful attitude. You mean well, but you're hurting the people you treat this way. You should educate yourself about what chronic pain is if you want to be inspirational rather than causing harm. A chronic pain patient can't psych themselves out and not hurt. There are some techniques in pain psychology that help a bit, like mindfulness techniques or imagining the pain tingles but doesn't hurt, but they're only somewhat effective and that is as good as it gets in terms of psychology.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> No. Or not in our lifetime, maybe is the better answer.

My gut says a lot of "chronic pain" that ends up hardwiring the brain to be noticed.

Reinforce a neural pathway often enough and it won't quiet down.

The buzz will be there and we can't be sure our sore spot hurts or our brain simply can't avoid that pathway.

See phantom limb and similar.

<comment><USER20> Kind of, kind of not.

When one has enough chronic pain, they lay in bed for extended periods of time. This deteriorates the muscles, and a lack of muscle strength can create chronic pain, creating a feedback loop.

It's why chronic pain centers prescribe a physical therapist and muscle strengthening exercises.

Likewise, as you suspect when it comes to neurology, if something happens over and over again the brain creates a map for it, which when it comes to chronic pain can make things worse. One of the solutions found is to prescribe an antidepressant, even if the person isn't depressed, as it helps rewire those kinds of parts of the brain. This is why at chronic pain centers there is a psychiatrist too.

Once those two issues are reduced or removed the chronic pain is often minimized enough (and sometimes entirely removed) the source of the chronic pain can become easier to see. Often the pain is still there, but it's no longer masked. This then helps identify the issue. eg for me, despite being 20/20 I have eye strain. Switching to a 4k monitor helped a lot, but I wouldn't have noticed a reduction in pain if I hadn't have gone through the physical therapy and been on an antidepressant for a couple of months.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Sure, there is always the placebo effect possibly. There is a question though of those who kill themselves after they've been stung by some kind of snake or wasp that is apparently so painful that death is the only relief.

</comment><comment><USER22> Tramadol works great for my chronic pain.

<comment><USER23> That's because opioids remain the single most effective pain treatment that humans have available. People have been using them for 4000+ years, they have a long track record of efficacy (and safety).

Managing pain with opioids is not much different than managing diabetes with insulin. I realize the media mania and moral panic doesn't convey that because it doesn't fit the hype narrative, but there is a huge difference between medical patients and drug abusers.

<comment><USER7> The opioid action of Tramadol is far less than Codeine. That's mostly not how it works.

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</comment><comment><USER25> Although there is value in trying to removing pain when doing so would be ethical, this thread mentions many situations where there is pain but no possibility yet of removing or reducing it. In these cases, a long-term general solution is to continue research on these situations. But the short- term solution per person is to learn the meaning and value of suffering. It is frowned upon in intellectual forums to discuss religion, as if religion were incompatible with logic and reason. But Jesus came to teach us how to endure suffering without failing in our duties. That is what he did, what he showed us how to do, and what he gives us the _power_ to do through the Sacraments, especially Holy Communion. Because this is true power: to endure suffering without failing. And evil means failure because it is an absence of power to do what is both good and proper; sin is simply a lack of power. You will not learn any of this in any philosophy or world-religions class, or intellectual discussions over caviar. You will only learn and understand this through experiencing it, which can only be started by a humble trust that Jesus came into this world to suffer and die for our sake, out of love for us, and he will teach us how to do good, even in the midst of suffering. He knows our pain better than we do. He suffered more than we ever could.

<comment><USER26> Jesus died on the cross in six hours.

Let's see jesus crush a few vertebrae and live disabled for 40 years without pain meds, and then talk about suffering.

Like I get it. Religion does help many, and it can take you away from pain, but suffering is real and don't shortchange people's misery who are dealing with it.

<comment><USER27> I was going to make a similar comment, so I'll tag on here. Jesus was supposedly crucified for a few hours, which would be terrible, but he also knew what was waiting him, and that he would be remembered and revered.

In contrast, my sister suffered through multiple rounds of chemo, then a divorce by a husband who was jealous that she was "getting all the attention". The cancer spread to her brain and spine and lungs, and towards the end even morphine couldn't stop the pain. She had to say goodbye to her sons without knowledge of what was to lie in store for her or them. When she died, she stayed dead, none of this "Tada! I died without the consequences of death" nonsense.

<comment><USER25> You assume you know just how much (or how "little") Jesus suffered, based on a physical description. I felt the same way for a few years. But his was physical, spiritual, emotional, mental, all at once, for almost a full day straight, and intensified beyond what you can imagine. He barely showed any typical signs, like screaming out in pain or cursing people, because he is all-powerful, and those come from a lack of power. But there are an abundance of signs that he suffered far more than an ordinary crucifixion, which was already excruciating by today's standards - in fact that's where the word comes from.

<comment><USER27> You are absolutely right -- I don't know how much he suffered. But then again, people who claim he suffered unimaginable pain because he accepted the sin of humanity have no idea how much it hurt (if you accept such a thing is possible).

This is just typical having it both ways -- he was fully human and fully divine. That isn't some cosmic thing worth pondering -- it is just a contradiction. If you believe he is god and that it was unimaginably painful, then you should also accept as god he has infinite tolerance for pain and so it isn't so impressive.

<comment><USER25> He allowed himself to feel the fullness of that suffering to expiate our just punishments, and to merit for us a portion in his strength to overcome suffering, and so that nobody could ever say "God does not know what it means to suffer like I am."

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> As per [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines) the answer is no.

<comment><USER29> Let's hope so.

 _No sense of pain can result in severe self-inflicted injuries and premature death_

[https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and- families...](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and- families/health-news/the-people-who-cant-feel-pain-scientists-discover-cause- of-rare-inherited-condition-that-turns-off-10274604.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Should there be one? Pain is a symptom of something else, treat the root cause.

Managing pain should only be a temporary measure.

<comment><USER31> When it's a symptom of some part of your body being worn out there's usually no treating that.

<comment><USER20> Actually, that is a common issue with chronic pain, and thankfully that's far from the truth.

Chronic pain clinics have a physical therapist that shows muscle building exercises, so the body stops being worn out.

However, depending on what the kind of wear is, as paradoxical as it seems, going for a walk for at least 20 minutes, can charge an exhausted body more than laying down without napping.</comment></comment></comment>


PyPy 1.8 - business as usual - <AUTHOR> http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2012/02/pypy-18-business-as-usual.html

<comment><USER2> PyPy to me looks like a great effort and a technological tour de force. But I wish they would talk _more_ about why and when PyPy will be _slower_ than CPython on their site . Here is why.

I tried to run some of my scripts on PyPy and performance was invariably worse (about 50% worse). And my first reaction was: PyPy is not delivering on its promises. Only later, on some forum I read that PyPy does not perform well on large dictionaries (and this is essentially what I do in my scripts). Have I known it in advance, my first impression of PyPy would be much better.

<comment><USER3> It's the creation of large dicts to be precise. The thing is we try to attack those problems as they arise and as people report bugs. Generally pypy slower than cpython is a bug and we consider it as such. That also means that those are moving targets usually - as we discover this, we fix it and sometime maybe something else pops up. It would be a bit of a mess to keep the list of such things on the website.

<comment><USER4> Do you have a web-facing bug tracking system?

<comment><USER5> <https://bugs.pypy.org/>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'd love to see a list of diffs: things that work in CPython and don't work in PyPy. That would be much more helpful for me to decide if it's time to switch.

<comment><USER7> Here you go:

<http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/cpython_differences.html>

<http://pypy.org/compat.html>

<https://bitbucket.org/pypy/compatibility/wiki/Home>

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Can somebody please fix the title? It hurts.

<comment><USER9> At first I thought it some some subtle dig at PyPy for not being feature complete or something.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Would the work on numpypy also make e.g. scipy available? Or would a separate effort be needed to move that to PyPy? Their website (scipy.org) mentions it builds on numpy, but it's unclear to me if it also depends on other libraries.

 _Edit:_ I see the scipy website also mentions this:

      Various SciPy modules use Fortran 77 libraries and some use C++, so you'll also need Fortran 77 and C++ compilers installed. The SciPy module Weave uses a C++ compiler at run time.

So I guess it wouldn't work out of the box. Do the PyPy devs have any plan for this as well?

<comment><USER3> This is an example approach how this might work - [http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2011/12/plotting-using- matplotl...](http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2011/12/plotting-using-matplotlib- from-pypy.html)

<comment><USER5> This one is a great big hack…</comment></comment></comment>


Litvinenko inquiry: Vladimir Putin 'ordered killing' - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33734525

<comment><USER2> In the video, the speech Litvinkeyo's widow gives to the media here, could the dramatic interruptions by the barking-dog-owning, sign-wielding nutter be those of an agent provocateur?</comment>


Pharma exec says he had 'moral requirement' to raise drug price 400% - <AUTHOR> https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/11/health/drug-price-hike-moral-requirement-bn/index.html <comment><USER2> I feel like people who find headlines like this repulsive have never dealt with complex moral issues or taken a moral philosophy class.

As i mention frequently, i was in US nuclear navy. Its self-regulated. The DOE and NRC dont come and inspect the nuclear warships being run by 22 year old kids. This is possible almost entirely due to cultural reasons. A huge portion of initial and periodic training is devoted to integrity and aligning morality.

"Moral" is a subtly toxic word because it has some vague equivalence with being nice, but in reality they are totally orthogonal. If your friend is doing bad things as a nuclear sailor and you know his family is living paycheck to paycheck, sometimes the moral thing is to get him in trouble so he loses half months pay X 2 months.

For a more direct comparison, when natural disasters happen, most groceries are prohibited from raising prices for moral reasons - how could it be right to charge people more for water when they dont have any? The answer, that requires you to turn away people seeking clean water, is that if you dont raise prices the water will likely run out because people who didnt really need it were buying it just because.

<comment><USER3> > I feel like people who find headlines like this repulsive have never dealt > with complex moral issues or taken a moral philosophy class.

As someone who's taken a moral philosophy class, this sounded a bit like, "people who disagree with my perspective are simple-minded."

While I don't think people should generally be forming strong opinions based on headlines, the CEO in question failed to provide any real justification for his bold claim. Given that the interests of pharma executives differ from those of the general public, there's no reason such a statement should escape scrutiny.

<comment><USER4> That's not how I took that sentence. I read that to mean that a lot of people like to treat many things as black and white and have the approach of "if you disagree with me you are not as virtuous as I am", which is what we see a _lot_ of on Twitter and other social media. I think OP is trying to say that complex issues aren't clear cut when it comes to morality.

<comment><USER3> I agree with what you're saying here, but the OP seemed to be going further than you are. I may have misinterpreted their intentions, but it seemed like they were holding the pharma exec to a different standard than his detractors.

The pharma exec in the article wasn't saying, "Please understand, this is a complex issue that shouldn't be considered in black and white terms." He said, using his own black-and-white thinking, (essentially) that he was virtuous for raising the price of the drug in question, claiming the moral high ground for himself. That's why his statement was so controversial.

The OP seemed to accept everything the pharma exec said at face value (seemingly, by virtue of his position as a pharma exec), while implying that the general public (at least those who were upset by the situation in question, and presumably not also experienced pharma execs) was incapable of complex thought regarding moral issues. To me, anyway, it sounded more like they were saying, "this guy's right and all you angry folks shouldn't be so simple-minded" than "hey, let's be reasonable here."

Of course, I could be completely misconstruing the OP's point. I'm not on any social media, and I generally shy away from the 24-hour "news" cycle, so I'm probably less sensitive to so-called outrage culture than most...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> There's an interesting mini-thread (3 tweets) from Dean Baker reframing patents as public debt:

[https://twitter.com/DeanBaker13/status/1212394251872399361](https://twitter.com/DeanBaker13/status/1212394251872399361)

The core idea is that government monopolies are an incentive from the government to get something done. Instead of paying companies directly, a monopoly is granted; the monopoly rents, i.e. the higher prices from reduced competition, are then foisted on the public to pay off over the duration of the patent. Structurally, this is like a debt with repayments over time.

<comment><USER6> There are several differences:

Firstly, the government doesn't choose what it pays to have done. Cancer cure? Patentable. Slide-to-unlock? Patentable. Dildo harness? Also patentable.

Second, with patents if development fails the government pays nothing. Whereas if they funded development directly, failed projects would be paid for by the taxpayer.

Third, patents are a flat tax on people who use a development, whereas direct development is a progressive tax on people whether they use the development or not.

Fourth, patents can pull money from foreign countries into your country.

<comment><USER5> There are other mechanisms, e.g. prizes, that don't have the same downsides as patents that could work better for medical innovations in particular.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The one thing about getting old that I really enjoy is telling people about how things used to be and having them not believe me. Like how I browsed the web for years before it had any advertising on it.

This week it's the story about how insulin was $20 a month when I was in high school, I remember it well because I had two friends who needed insulin and they complained about this $20 constantly.

Americans under a certain age just flat out refuse to believe that it was ever possible to get important medicine that cheaply. I've had people call me a liar and been branded with various political slurs for making this $20 claim. It's hilarious.

<comment><USER8> Where you in high school in the 1970s, when insulin was $20/month?

That's $120/month in modern dollars

[https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/history-of- insulin-c...](https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/history-of-insulin- costs#17)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm all for hating the pharma insustry but reading the article, it seems a bit clickbaity:

"In comments to CNN on Wednesday, Mulye said he was not quoted accurately. "The word morality was used in the conversation, but not in the context of price increases," he said."

<comment><USER10> "Honestly, Gottlieb should stay away from tweet, and he needs to stay in his office and listen to people like me and reform the agency," Mulye said.

That's amongst other choice quotes like "who's going to create these jobs" (as he employs 100 people, supposedly, I'm not even convinced that number is legitimate but it's definitely a ceiling). Guy sounds like a real piece of work living in a mess he's creating.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This guy did much worse than simply having a distorted sense of morality. If company X sells a product at 2800 and company Y raises the price of the (almost) same product from 500 to 2300, I call it a cartel where the "almost" difference is there to balance the negative press generics receive sometimes.

</comment><comment><USER12> I mean, "moral requirement" is ridiculous, but the price was raised from $500 to $2300. In this context, I think his retort makes sense:

> Mulye noted his drug is the generic version and less expensive than the > branded version, listed at $2800. "I'm being vilified for no good reason," > he said.

<comment><USER13> If its shareholder capital or debt for the generic purchase it does amplify his duty to make a return for those shareholders

Otherwise disincentivize companies limited by shares from being a part of these transactions

<comment><USER14> Nah, this guy is just a psychopath.

 _" I think it is a moral requirement to make money when you can," Mulye told the Financial Times, "to sell the product for the highest price."_

He's practically trolling people with the memtion of Shkreli.

<comment><USER15> He is not wrong, as the CEO of a company it is his duty to maximize profit and returns to shareholders.

Unless the company has different goals (like ethical, or helping the ill, etc.) by default it is to make money.

<comment><USER16> Duty according to who? If he didn't raise the price by a factor of 4, you think shareholders could successfully sue?

<comment><USER17> According to the very person the article is about:

> "I think it is a moral requirement to make money when you can," Mulye told > the Financial Times, "to sell the product for the highest price."

For bonus points, it's coupled with

> "I agree with Martin Shkreli that when he raised the price of his drug he > was within his rights because he had to reward his shareholders," Mulye was > quoted as saying.

and

> "I said I have to raise prices when I can -- how to get the best prices for > my products, so that I can survive," Mulye told CNN. "It is about the > survival of the business. It has nothing to do with morality."

Frankly, every quote of the guy confirms further that he is a troll trying to emulate Trump's arrogance and stir shit up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The fact that the FDA head criticized him when this problem was caused by the FDA in the first place might be peak irony.

See [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/nostrum-ceo-says-he-wasnt- de...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/nostrum-ceo-says-he-wasnt-defending- shkreli-he-was-condemning-fda.html)

>But Mulye disagrees. He said new FDA guidance on elemental impurities in medicines required a reformulation of nitrofurantoin, so Nostrum pulled the product out of the market while it implemented the necessary changes. It plans to re-introduce it "shortly," Mulye said.

>"After the regulation came into effect, I don't think anybody manufactured the product," Mulye said. "That's going to create exclusivity in the market. Then the price goes up."

</comment><comment><USER19> The solution to this problem is pretty simple: throw all these guys in prison for price fixing and set price caps on the drugs. Look: if the power company was allowed to set the price of electricity to whatever they wanted, how much would your electric bill be? Some industries require regulation. You might not like that but it's a fact.

If the government was to set up its own insulin manufacturing plant and sell the insulin at 20 dollars a vial, every private manufacturer would drop their prices to match by nightfall the next day. Let's not act like this is a confusing or unsolvable problem. This is a trivially simple problem with several perfectly obvious solutions.

<comment><USER19> And I just want to point out also that the reason the problem goes unsolved is not because it's difficult, Congress doesn't have the power, or anything like that. The reason they don't solve the problem is because, and I cannot emphasize this enough, they _don't care_.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Maybe there is indeed an argument to be made to raise antibiotics prices in general to limit it's massive overuse.

</comment><comment><USER21> The drug price was raised from $500 to $2300 (compared to $2800 for the brand name). This is certainly not a morality-driven decision, but it does seem like a reasonable business decision. It's capitalism at work. What's missing is, where are the other competitors to provide the same drug for $2100, resulting in a price war that eventually drops them back down to the $500 range, which was clearly profitable for them in the first place?

EDIT: Hmm, apparently I've waded into a political minefield here. I was posting a theoretical question because I was curious... The price change is so large. What is stopping another company from coming in and eating lunch? Obviously there's a bit of a regulatory moat, but for that kind of margin, it seems surmountable.

<comment><USER22> If the other players in the pharmaceutical supply weren't pushing regulatory capture, blind deals, collusion, and every other trick to keep ricing under their own control instead of by actual market forces, maybe this would work.

<comment><USER21> What are blind deals?

Collusion seems unlikely between two parties. It's simply unnecessary. Adding a third competitor seems like it would resolve things.

<comment><USER22> Pharmacy benefit managers are middlemen who often dictate which drugs are available to a plan, and have been implicated in pushing more expensive alternative drugs in collusion with manufacturers desires to push certain lines for profit.

They are also basically under the radar in the stream of third party companies 'providing benefits'.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


The Riddle of the Human Species - <AUTHOR> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/the-riddle-of-the-human-species/?hp&gwh=2469249683E7F1823AE233F161454B72 <comment><USER2> Previous submission (also not of the canonical URL, as here, no comments):

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5286369>

Commentary on the submitted article, "E. O. Wilson mistakenly touts group selection (again) as a key factor in human evolution":

[http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/e-o- wilso...](http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/e-o-wilson- mistakenly-touts-group-selection-again-as-a-key-factor-in-human-evolution/)</comment>


Billionaire's Cancer Innovations - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.forbes.com/face-to-face/2010/04/29/billionaire's-cancer-innovations/

<comment><USER2> "the first prototype of what he calls _'the mind-brain computer interface.'_ It's a sensor in his phone that can compute brain waves and then send them via bluetooth back into the phone to dial numbers."

Read that twice, did I accidentally sleep through the singularity?

<comment><USER3> You could do something very low-tech that would perhaps feel similar: Use some cheap electrodes to pick up slight muscle contractions on some part of your body. Then train yourself and your computer for some kind of coding system.</comment></comment>