Mark Zuckerberg's Twitter and Pinterest password was 'dadada' - <AUTHOR> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/06/facebook_zuckerberg_social_media_accnt_pwnage/ <comment><USER2> I mean... maybe it's non-trivial passwords that held me back in life

</comment><comment><USER3> I guess he really liked that Volkswagen commercial?[1]

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdccNAOvPHg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdccNAOvPHg)

<comment><USER4> You read the article about Subaru and lesbians, right?

<comment><USER3> I sure did! It was a great study and quite fascinating from a marketing perspective.

I do remember in middle school (a religious one) a classmate got in trouble (detention?) for loudly wondering if the Biology teacher and softball coach in her 30s with short hair and drove an Isuzu Rodeo might be a lesbian.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Why did the article state that this is a problem even if one is using 2FA? Even if you reuse passwords, 2FA would stop most attacks it seems or slow them down incredibly, where you would be alerted to the multiple attempts to guess the 2FA code before it was actually cracked.

</comment><comment><USER6> This reminds me of Gabe Newell whose password was "gaben" when Hackers announced gold status of Half-Life 2 early.

</comment><comment><USER7> Who would have guessed he is a dadaist.

<comment><USER8> Facebook is full of accidental dadaists.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Can someone explain to me why we are still using passwords? It's not like we don't have better technology. Why can't I just authenticate everywhere with a signed token? What's standing in the way of this?

<comment><USER10> Passwords are simple and convenient. Everyone basically understands how they work, and you can keep them in your head (not that you _should_ ).

EDIT: I'm not saying passwords are ideal, just giving context as to why they haven't been replaced.

<comment><USER9> Passwords are NOT simple and convenient, they are cumbersome and hard-to- remember, cause huge security problems, and are basically only standing on top of the crutch of email forgot-your-password systems.

<comment><USER10> Yes, _good_ passwords are hard to remember, and bad or reused passwords are a security risk, but conceptually passwords are way simpler and more convenient than the alternatives, for the average user.

All I need to login from any device in the world is my password. As soon as you introduce tokens or private keys or whatever you need something to securely store that, most likely protected by... a password.

I can imagine some crazy implant + biometric authentication scheme but we're a long ways off from that sort of thing being universally accepted.

<comment><USER9> I keep an ssh key on a USB drive on my keychain. The physical analogy to a key is easy to grasp and totally appropriate. You don't expect to get into your house without your keys; similarly, if we turn the key into a physical object on your person, we can build off an existing habit. I don't think this should be terribly difficult.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Does this mean LinkedIn stores unencrypted passwords? That's pretty hard to believe.

<comment><USER12> It means passwords like dadada can be reversed from hashes.

<comment><USER11> Not if it's salted, no?

<comment><USER13> It wasn't salted, but even then a targeted effort could almost certainly crack a password as bad as dadada almost immediately for a fast hash like sha1.

<comment><USER11> That's what I find hard to believe though. LinkedIn, a $20B giant, doesn't salt its passwords and uses something as weak as sha1? I would expect even a 1-person startup to do better than that.

<comment><USER14> That doesn't need to be true for this to have happened. Zuck is a high profile target, probably the hackers just prioritised cracking his account and such a weak password would be found reasonably quickly even using bcrypt

<comment><USER15> Can you prevent targeted attacks, or is salting the state of the art?

What if the salt was derived from a key the user had to supply and wasn't stored anywhere?

<comment><USER16> Salting has zero effect on the targeted cracking of a single password. Salting protects against rainbow tables - sets of pre-calculated hashes plain-text to passwords. These are dangerous because an attacker has a large amount of time to pre-calculate hashes, but (hopefully) only a small amount of time to calculate after a dump before the password is changed. However, if you are starting from scratch and have a single password to crack, there's no difference between a salted and unsalted password.

Modern state of the art for targeted attacks is to use slow hash algorithms, such as bcrypt. They have little effect on normal operations, as most users will get the right password within a few tries, so you're adding a negligible amount of time per user. But the extra time has a huge effect when an attacker is trying to calculate millions of hashes for a single user.

<comment><USER15> Just out of curiosity, how is sha composed with itself 1023 times worse than bcrypt? Is it because bcrypt is also memory bound?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I wish facebook execs would come back to Twitter and other competing social media. Facebook seemed to have issued an executive ban a few years ago and they all went silent.

Disclaimer: this is personal observation.

</comment><comment><USER18> Someone should try badadada - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQQlCGHOBGI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQQlCGHOBGI)

</comment><comment><USER19> I'm more surprised that linkedin stores passwords so unsafe considering the type of people that use their services

<comment><USER20> At this point I'm more surprised when I hear about a major company with a large user base being secure.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Prediction: 'dadada' would feature in the next most passwords list.

</comment><comment><USER10> Perhaps it just shows how little he cared about competing social networks?

</comment><comment><USER2> I'm hearing Stefan Remmler suing for 1 Billion. Hahaha

</comment><comment><USER22> Funny, my Facebook passowrd is actually 'adadad'</comment>


Abusing interview for company publicity - <AUTHOR> http://aristarch.co/2014/04/05/abusing-interviews-for-company-publicity/

<comment><USER2> That's exactly what my supervisor told me when I started interviewing candidates...</comment>


Show HN: Find Similar Logos by Image and Website - <AUTHOR> http://compute.vision <comment><USER2> Looks to be a pretty well made site. Just a note that it breaks down a little when there are no auto-complete suggestions for the input - there's no indication at all that there are no auto-complete results or that it won't work without one, and the page appears to do nothing. I discovered this by typing the site's own domain into the input box.

<comment><AUTHOR> Fixed now. Also added a spinner gif while processing the request. Really appreciate your feedback. Feel free to let me know if you feel anything else is lacking. I am a math guy primarily who rarely ventures out of his jupyter- notebook comfort zone but thanks to this project I learned a good bit of frontend hacking. Cheers.

<comment><USER2> Great stuff. My next suggestion would be to make the logos shown in the results clickable to search for them, so that you can explore similar ones quickly.

I'm curious if you have a particular use case in mind for this, or was it just fun to build?

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a neat idea. Thank you. I was thinking of putting search functionality in the results page too so that it will save a click and display names of the brands but this is better. Makes it more fun to explore for the users.

I implemented this with the Indian Trademarks database with the purpose of helping brands detect obvious infringements of design to begin with. It worked reasonably well but the database comprised mostly wordmarks(text images) and badly compressed/scanned images so the results were kinda underwhelming, except for the popular brands. So I figured I should acquire a better graphics dataset to validate my algorithm and went ahead with it. The results turned out to be much better than the earlier dataset and I thought why not use this to make a fun tool and ended up doing this. I'm hoping this turns out to be a useful research tool for logo designers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Very useful case for simple computer vision. I like it.

I wonder if something like this would be useful for large brands to detect if someone was using their logo on a website, or an item picture on an e-commerce site.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you and yes indeed. This, coupled with rotation invariance is ideal for design/trademark/logo infringement detection scenarios. This result for example is against the Indian Trademark database [https://imgur.com/gallery/SIAwl](https://imgur.com/gallery/SIAwl) For photos, there's Tineye of course. Color similarity was trivial and took less than 10 lines of code but the shape similarity metric turned out to be quite challenging and took me months to get a reasonably working version. Most of the methods suggested in literature worked wonderfully against MPEG 7 dataset - [http://www.dabi.temple.edu/~shape/MPEG7/dataset.html](http://www.dabi.temple.edu/~shape/MPEG7/dataset.html) \- (Few of them got a precision of almost 8 out of top 10 results!) but fared miserably with large datasets of real world designs.</comment></comment>


These Parrots Can Make Other Parrots 'Laugh'–a First - <AUTHOR> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/03/laughter-kea-birds-new-zealand-contagious/ <comment><USER2> Well, just one data point but I showed the video to my parrot and he seemed unimpressed. He does like the old videos of the parrot Alex at MIT using tools to get treats.

Anyway parrots are amazing animals, but unless you have lots of time to play with them, don't get one for a pet. I spend over an hour a day interacting and playing with our parrot.

<comment><USER3> What advice do you have for someone who didn't realize this, purchased one, and couldn't fulfill this need of the parrot? Whats the best way to proceed for the parrot?

<comment><USER2> I don't know. A big problem with giving a parrot to a new owner is that parrots imprint on their human owners and will never really adapt to new owners. That said, I have met people who keep many birds, like a sanctuary, that have been abandoned.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Beak and Brains: Genius Birds From Down Under on Netflix is a great feature on Keas if you haven't seen it.

<comment><USER5> There are also many videos on YouTube about them: [https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kea+parrot](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kea+parrot)

BBC made a 30min documentary "Kea the Smartest Parrot" about the birds, but unfortunately it has been removed from YouTube. There are some clips still there... and if you look hard enough you can still find it somewhere on the internet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> First crows, now parrots.. seems like high end primates assume wrong too often.

<comment><USER7> Too often compared to what?

Have you seen the parrot's and crow's assumption track record?

<comment><USER6> I assumed zero.</comment></comment></comment>


Asus Confirm Honeycomb Will Be Android 3.0 - <AUTHOR> http://thenextweb.com/google/2011/01/05/asus-confirm-honeycomb-will-be-android-3-0/ <comment><USER2> I wouldn't bet too hard on it. People were convinced gingerbread was 3.0 until it wasn't.

I'm not saying Honeycomb won't be 3.0; in fact I think it most likely will be, and definitely should be if the Android team wants to have a reputation for not missing their goals of getting 3.0 out to us soon. I'm just saying Asus isn't Google, so I don't believe it until it's final.

An honestly, who cares about the version number really? It's the changelog that matters.

</comment><comment><USER3> Just give me an android smartphone with a true docking station, and slighly more powerful hardware. Tablets are fun, but they don't fit any usage scenario for me. I'm either:

1\. Mobile and not wanting to carry anything larger than my phone. Anything too big to fit in a pocket might as well be a laptop.

2\. Stationary and wanting a full keyboard/mouse/monitor.

The phone itself can already handle the functions I need: RDP, VNC, SSH, Email, IM, etc... Any important data/services/tools live on one of my servers already. Give me a good docking station setup, and it will be my only device.

</comment><comment><USER4> Just give me hardware with an os I can update without rooting. I don't want something full of security holes, and I don't want to entrust my operating system and passwords to an anonymous someone who replaces their "ohs" with zeros.</comment>


The Plot to Steal Soviet Planetary Data - <AUTHOR> http://astronomy.com/bonus/secret <comment><USER2> > Over the years, CIA analysts became increasingly confident in the purpose of > this final, hidden signal: that it was used to send detailed scientific and > imaging data from probes and other craft. Although the fact that this > information was being hidden from the Americans annoyed them, the data > itself wasn't at all vital for American interests, or even that useful for > American cosmologists and other space researchers.

The data itself might not be valuable, but being first to have it could be valuable for propaganda purposes. Perhaps the Soviets wanted to avoid a repeat of what happened with Luna 9.

Luna 9 was the first probe to survive landing on the moon and send back images. Their plan was to release these images to the world press with much fanfare, emphasizing how it was their superior science and engineering that allowed for this.

Unfortunately for them, Luna 9 landed and started transmitting at a time when the moon was not visible to the Soviet monitoring stations. It was visible from Jodrell Bank in England, though, and the English were listening. The public affairs officer at Jodrell Bank had earlier worked in the newspaper paper industry, and noted that the transmission sounded like the early FAX machines that the papers used. The observatory called the Daily Express to ask for help, and the Daily Express sent their FAX machine over. The Luna 9 transmission was put through it, and it worked! They got images from the moon.

The Daily Express got the story out, with the images. The Soviets were not pleased that the first look they got at their own probe's moon images was in an English newspaper, and getting scooped meant that the West got to set the tone of the conversation, so it focused on the the science, not on the superiority of Soviet science and engineering.

<comment><USER3> The front page of the Daily Express that day, for those curious: [http://proftimobrien.com/wp- content/uploads/2013/12/Luna9-Da...](http://proftimobrien.com/wp- content/uploads/2013/12/Luna9-DailyExpress.jpg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Does the article never give us the actual frequency? Just vaguely 5.08?

Maybe I missed it?

<comment><USER5> The source document doesn't mention it: [http://www.governmentattic.org/5docs/NSA- TheLongestSearch.pd...](http://www.governmentattic.org/5docs/NSA- TheLongestSearch.pdf)

However, this site spells it all out: "Radio systems of Soviet Mars and Venus probes" [http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/radioind/MVradio/MVradio.htm](http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/radioind/MVradio/MVradio.htm)

<comment><USER6> Ah,

The whole article is based on this document, which about as informative as a series of photographs taken as Roswell ... with the lens cap on.

<comment><USER7> Just gotta figure out what blur they used and reverse it, Gaussian at 30 degrees.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Airbnb has 20 job openings - <AUTHOR> http://www.airbnb.com/jobs

<comment><USER3> Heh. When I first read "SEM Specialist", my first thought was "why does Airbnb want to hire someone who knows Scanning Electron Microscopy"?

</comment><comment><USER4> You need to hire Jenny Ersbak. She's done three interviews with you so far and I can only say praises about her (and I'm her boss). Email me if you'd like a reference.

</comment><comment><USER5> Would they hire the right candidate if he did not want to relocate to SF?

<comment><USER6> On the other hand, I wonder if they will interview someone wanting to relocate to SF from out of state.

<comment><USER7> Or country.

<comment><USER8> Sure thing!

<comment><USER9> Are you looking for people with lots of experience for the engineering positions or will you consider graduates?

<comment><USER8> We are interested in both recent grads and veterans, as long as you are smart, fun to be around, and passionate about Airbnb. I think a well balanced team should have people with different levels of experience.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Any idea how much funding these guys got? They seem to be doing well.

<comment><USER11> They were interviewed by Mixergy and Jessica Livingston recently and there's a LOT of great stuff in those interviews:

<http://mixergy.com/airbnb-chesky-gebbia/>

[http://ycombinator.posterous.com/airbnb-and-weebly- interview...](http://ycombinator.posterous.com/airbnb-and-weebly-interviews- now-online)

<comment><USER12> Holy cow, they're good storytellers _and_ it is packed with useful detail.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The Airbnb team is a talented group of engineers and designers. I had the opportunity to stay with them during Startup School last October and observe their work environment over the course of a few days. These guys are focused on their product and determined, good luck on the hiring! //from Texas

</comment><comment><USER14> I'd like to know how they chose the quantity for each slot--how did they _know_ "we need X this, Y that, and Z these"? Is there a template for this somewhere? :-) Obviously not--but what was the process like?

</comment><comment><USER15> Perhaps a small datapoint suggesting an economic recovery?

<comment><USER16> The way that I understand Airbnb's business is that they're providing an "inferior good" at least when compared to a hotel room (this is not a slight on their business). Inferior goods usually do well in poor economies (if I remember correctly, Hormel was doing really well with Spam just after the recession hit).

So the fact that Airbnb is doing well probably may not be indicative of a positive trend for the economy.

Then again, one company's success or failure rarely has much to do with the economy anyway.

<comment><USER11> My guess is that people go to AirBnB for the experience of meeting people, staying in an authentic locale, etc. It seems like a new disruptive product (which would also make it "inferior" to standard hotels).

<comment><USER17> Personal anecdote I know, but I used AirBnB to stay in Paris last month - <USER2> was all about price.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Will they accept resumes from outside the US? Im just finishing my software engineering post-grad in Ireland, would love to work in a startup like Airbnb.

<comment><USER18> Yes, we are happy to interview talented candidates from abroad.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I always knew this was a good idea. This just shows it. and Couch surfing sort of backed it up. Im glad to see that this is really taking off. Maybe hotels could start charging less. I imagine they could be seeing a extremely small decline in their revenue.

</comment><comment><USER20> Fun job, looks technically interesting, great benefits, growing fast (used to have 8 openings, now 20), I wish I was done with college so I could apply. Looks like a no brainer.

</comment><comment><USER21> irony:

If others have ever noted that you're borderline perfectionistic, this is the job for you!

(on the customer service job posting)

<comment><USER22> Customer Service posting: "Must be a college graduate." Hmm. A lot of engineers I know wouldn't qualify for customer service at AirBnB.

<comment><USER23> Most "rules" in life are suggestions of varying strengths. Screening for "college graduate" is just a way of asking for a baseline level of education and polish. If you can demonstrate that in another way, you'll be totally fine -- it may take more effort to prove this without a diploma, but it's totally possible.

The CTO of EMC is an IBM Fellow... and has a B.S. in Finance from Marist College.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I noticed the bi/multilingual requirements for i'natl customer service -- any preferred languages there?

</comment><comment><USER25> i guess they didn't like my resume. ;(</comment>


The Housing Shortage in Profile: Construction in Oregon at Lowest Since WWII - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-housing-shortage-in-profile-11578263733 <comment><AUTHOR> Excerpt, since there is a paywall:

'Politicians bemoan the lack of affordable housing, but their policies often create the problem. Look no further than Oregon, where restrictive zoning and mandates have yielded the lowest rate of residential construction in decades.

Oregon's population grew by nearly 400,000 between 2010 and 2019. But the state added a mere 37 housing permits for every 100 new residents, according to a report released last week by the Oregon Office of Economic Analysis. Economist Josh Lehner found that "while much of the attention is paid to rising housing costs, we know they are the symptom and not the cause of the disease. The chief underlying cause is the ongoing low levels of new construction this decade."

Mr. Lehner adds that "on a population growth-adjusted basis, Oregon built fewer new housing units this decade than we have since at least World War II."

That's no surprise since Oregon's land-use rules have been dysfunctional for decades. In the 1970s lawmakers worried about sprawl imposed strict limits on urban expansion. These urban growth boundaries have failed to adjust sufficiently to growing populations, choking residential development despite high demand. Rising housing prices are the inevitable result of this government-imposed scarcity.

Portland is now desperate for affordable housing and says it's at least 23,000 units short. But its policies discourage investment in housing for low- and middle-income families. Its land-use zoning is more restrictive than more than three-fourths of other metropolitan areas examined in a new working paper by Harvard and University of Pennsylvania researchers. Since 2017 Portland has enforced an "inclusionary zoning" requirement on new residential buildings with 20 or more units. The city now compels many landlords to rent up to a fifth of new units at below-market rates.'</comment>


New Rules for Entrepreneurs - <AUTHOR>

Rule No1: There are no rules. <comment><USER2> 1) Think outside the box

2) Maximize potential

3) Push the envelop

4) Keep your eye on the ball

5) Always wear a condom</comment>


Did North Korea Really Attack Sony? - <AUTHOR> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/12/did_north_korea.html <comment><USER2> I'm dismayed that this piece is repeating Marc Rogers's gross misportrayal of the linguistic situation of the Koreas, saying that "Korean language in the code also suggests a Korean origin, though not necessarily a North Korean one, since North Koreans use a unique dialect." First of all, North Korean doesn't have "a unique dialect" but a number of regional dialects, just like South Korea, and like the situation in many languages. But again as in many major languages, a supra-regional, standard Korean language came into being, based on the central dialect region around Seoul which was the capital for many centuries. Before that the capital was Kaesong, which is in the same central dialect region as Seoul though it is now in North Korea. This happened before the division of the peninsula. Even today, the standard Korean taught and spoken in North Korea is based on this common standard with the South. The differences between regional dialects within either North or South Korea are far greater than the difference between the standard Korean spoken in the North and the South. The difference is mainly in words (especially any technology-related vocabulary introduced after the end of WWII) and spelling, and it's a lot like the differences between British and American English. You're never going to say that something written in English can't have been written by Americans because they have a unique dialect.

Also, as far as I know the codes didn't contain any Korean. Instead, what they found was that it seems to have used Korean text encoding, like EUC-KR. People have pointed out that this is a South Korean encoding, but North Koreans also use it since you hardly find any software that supports the official North Korean encoding. Again, if someone uses a British English locale, that isn't proof that it can't be an American. When it comes to text encoding and locale, you usually use whatever is available that lets you type in your own language.

<comment><USER2> To understand the language situation in Korea, let's imagine that we divided the Italian peninsula in half just north of Rome. Does it follow that now there are two dialects, North Italian and South Italian? No. Italian has a bewildering variety of regional dialects, and our arbitrary line doesn't correspond to a genuine dialect border. Similarly, the DMZ cuts across the central dialect region in Korea.

More importantly, Italians will continue to write and be taught in Standard Italian, which was developed based on the Tuscan dialect long before our artificial division of the peninsula. It won't be as if they would start from scratch and create new standard languages based on the Milanese dialect in the North and the Roman dialect in the South. Even independent countries such as Germany, Austria and Switzerland find it useful to use the same standard German as each other, even if it's not necessarily based on a dialect spoken wothin their borders. There will inevitably be differences in vocabulary and spelling, but the differences will be far less than if we imagined a naïve model where each country creates its own standard (which is what basically happened in Scandinavia).

<comment><USER3> Your comparison of Korean to Italian isn't helpful, because you're confusing dialects and languages. Italy has many regional _languages_ including Piedmontese, Lombard, Venetian, Sicilian, Sardinian, Neapolitan, etc., and of course Italian (based on the Tuscan language). Each regional language has many _dialects_ , so for example in Piedmont you have the Turinese dialenct of Piedmontese from Turin, which is distinct from the Piedmontese dialect in other areas. The dialects vary substantially, from one village to another—even different suburbs of a city can have different words for certain things.

Confusingly, Italians would call Piedmontese or Lombard a "dialetto" as much as they would call Turinese a "dialetto". The word basically means a dialect _or_ regional language, depending on the context. There is also a political element to it—the Italian government has suppressed the regional languages for years, and even now does not recognise them as languages, against academic opinion.

To be clear, Italians would also (generally) refer to Welsh as a "dialetto" of English, despite the fundamental difference of Welsh and English. (In fact they would usually also often refer to the U.K. as "inghilterra".) The word "dialetto" as currently used in normal Italian speech simply does not correspond 100% with the English word "dialect", much like the word "camello" doesn't correspond to "camel".

The regional languages generally are not mutually intelligible, although this depends on which dialects two speakers speak, and how "stretto" (strong) the dialect is (I don't know what the academic term for this is). So for example Vercellese (from Vercelli) is linguistically close to Novarese (from Novara) even though Vercellese is classed as Piedmontese and Novarese is classed as Lombard (despite being a Piedmontese city). The distinction is ultimately arbitrary—there is a gradation of dialects from Piedmontese to Lombard. Vercellese for example has many grammatical elements of Lombard (e.g. it uses the Lombard lü (meaning "he" or "him") instead of the Piedmontese chiela).

Also, an older or more rustic speaker is more likely to speak a "stretto" dialect, because they'll use more words and expressions originally belonging to that dialect (or to the regional language). Over the years, the regional languages have absorbed many words from Italian, replacing the traditional words. Now, the same thing is happening to Italian with English words (e.g. the word "goal" replacing "rete", or "babysitter" replacing "tata", or "shopping" replacing "spesa"—the English word in each case sounds more modern or cool to Italian speakers).

The linguistic situation is basically the same as with Catalan and Spanish. Catalan is as much a "dialect" of Spanish as Piedmontese would be a "dialect" of Italian. In fact, you could just as rightfully say that Italian is a "dialect" of Piedmontese. The difference is political, not academic.

<comment><USER2> I am well aware of the language situation in Italy, and I hesitated a bit before using it as an example. I probably should have qualified my use of the word "dialect" as you rightly point out. I do remind people from time to time that the regional languages in Italy are languages in their own right, and indeed the "dialects" spoken in Italy don't form a natural subgroup of the Romance languages, either (Piedmontese and Lombard are probably closer to the subgroup of the Western Romance languages that includes French rather than the one that contains Italian). But for my point here the distinction between languages and dialects is not important. The point is that in all of Italy, regardless of the local dialect or regional language, people are taught standard Italian. If we divide Italy, the Southern half is not going to switch to, say, Neapolitan, or the Northern half to Lombard, in spite of the rich literary traditions of these regional languages.

The situation in Korean is not qualitatively different, either. For instance, the Jeju "dialect" (now sadly moribund) is definitely not mutually intelligible with other dialects of Korean some authorities would insist on classifying it as a separate language. Even the mainland dialects (as they are traditionally considered as opposed to distinct languages) are considerably different from each other, not just in lexical items but in the existence of different grammatical categories (e.g. distinguishing between yes/no and wh- questions), morphology (the conjugation of verbs and adjectival verbs is all different), and phonology (different consonant and especially vowel inventories, different stress/pitch systems), to the degree that I wonder how much communication would be possible if it had not been for the imposition of standard Korean.

I used Italy as an example instead of the U.S., because it is a stretch to say that the U.S. has different dialects as the speech is quite uniform across the vast country compared to what you see in Korea; or the U.K., where the existence of Scots complicates the analogy. I did not intend to minimize the diversity of regional languages in Italy.

<comment><USER3> In the case of Italy, I would also doubt (as you do) that a hypothetical "North Italy" would choose anything other than Italian as its official language, because the use of Italian goes back a lot further than the unification of Italy, and it's the obvious and easy choice as a national language. The government simply doesn't care about the regional languages dying out, and there's no reason to think that a new North Italian government would have a different viewpoint. The main motivation, in the case of Italy, was just to have everyone speaking the same language.

However, it's certainly possible for a country and a population to completely change language in a generation. The Italian generation of people that is now about 60 years old are effectiviely bilingual—they were taught in Italian at school, but (generally) spoke their regional language at home. The generation after that spoke only Italian, and the generation before that spoke only the regional language. (Obviously this is a bit of a generalisation.) So it's quite straightforward for a country to change it's language over the course of 20 years or so.

I have a colleague in the Netherlands who believes that the Netherlands will at some point adopt English as its official language. I personally doubt it, but it is nevertheless definitely _possible_. All it would take is for the government to decree that all schoolchildren be taught _in English_ at school. Dutch people (and particularly Dutch school-teachers, which is the important thing) would easily be able to carry that policy out. The first generation of schoolchildren to pass through to adulthoold would probably choose to speak in English as their primary language, as has happened in Italy.

Also Brussels has changed from a Flemish speaking city to a French speaking one in a short space of time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> brown9-2 _Tellingly, the FBI 's press release says that the bureau's conclusion is only based "in part" on these clues. This leaves open the possibility that the government has classified evidence that North Korea is behind the attack._

I am surprised that the article doesn't end here. Other press reports have highlighted that there is classified evidence that has not been disclosed, and it seems odd to me that Schneier would play this aspect down in a story involving cyberattacks, North Korea, the FBI and the US intelligence community.

<comment><USER4> Secret evidence can be used to justify whatever whims the gatekeepers of that evidence wish to pursue politically.

If anything should be learned from the Iraq debacle, it's that.

<comment><USER5> That focus on Iraq is strange. I'm French and when Bush provided so-called "evidence" at the UN, people here were laughing and media were skeptic. From comments on HN, it seems Bush was taken seriously in other circles of the world, which may explain why some US citizen boycotted French products after we said we would create a worldwide axis against war.

<comment><USER6> > From comments on HN, it seems Bush was taken seriously in other circles of > the world,

Not sure if you heard the news, but Bush quickly invaded Iraq. I think it's safe to assume he was taken seriously.

> which may explain why some US citizen boycotted French products after we > said we would create a worldwide axis against war.

Some US citizens just like to complain about foreigners to be more patriotic (as if that would help). I would doubt most people could explain anything about french foreign policy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> SG- This piece pretty much echoes what I've felt since I first read about all the speculation and FBI report.

I'm just glad someone with credibility was able to come out and say it, I just hope (but doubt) that mainstream media will follow up on it and ask the right questions going forward.

<comment><USER7> You are glad he said what? He rules out a Sony insider and says NK must be involved in some way unless someone did it for the Lulz.

<comment><USER8> He didn't rule out a Sony insider.

> It's possible, but that employee or ex-employee would have also had to > possess the requisite hacking skills, which seems unlikely.

Considering the number of laid off techies, I think it is somewhat "more than unlikely".

I don't know where you got the second part.

<comment><USER9> I think he's also missing the case where a disgruntled insider gives a beachhead and/or money to outsiders.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Just like this article, several other entities may be skeptical on assertions that North Korea is involved given the past involving Iraq's imaginary WMD...etc. Also, cyber attacks may be common in future, for whatever may be the reasons involved.

In future, if some Hollywood studio makes a movie on Russia's Putin or on China and if hackers claiming from the injured country do similar cyber-attack on that studio and If USA retaliates and if Russia/china counter-retaliates and if this spills into physical world, then we can have nightmarish situations/tensions and may be full blown war. Worse, another country may do that sort of attack from some other country to hide its trail. Hope proper sense and calm minds prevail to prevent such nightmare. But such possibility exists in theory.

As solution, world needs an international, independent, competent panel/forum/group to investigate openly/transparently all cyber-attacks and find out culprits rather than doing mere guess work. Also, evidence of the crime need to be put in public domain to avoid conspiracy theories. This can be on the lines of international court of justice/United nations ...etc. Since parties involved are entities like Sony which are not connected to national defence directly, we need not fear national secrets leaking out ...etc i.e. it can be done without impacting the sovereignty of the nations involved.

Without such arrangement, stability and peace of the world will always be in question for any cyber attack on any major country such as USA/Europe/China/Russia ...etc.

TL,DR: Cyber-attacks on economic entities such as Sony or Google in the past involving several countries need to be investigated by international body rather than a single country and evidence of the crime need to be in public domain to avoid conspiracy theories.

</comment><comment> at-fates-hands So he posits 5 possibilities, 3 of which directly involve NK? He basically says he doesn't know what to think, but maintains the evidence is weak, like every other tech journalist.

I do agree its a good possibility the government has a lot more classified evidence it's not sharing with us, and we're trying to put together a puzzle with only half the pieces.

</comment><comment><USER11> If North Korea is involved I think it was after the initial attack (theory #4 in the article). As he says in the article: _" the explicit North Korean connection -- threats about the movie The Interview -- were only made by the hackers after the media picked up on the possible links between the film release and the cyberattack"_. North Korea may not have even been aware of the movie until the hack.

It seems like Sony is playing up the North Korea connection because it could only help them. They would lose more credibility (and potentially lawsuits [1]) if it's a 14yo hacker doing it for the lulz. State sponsored hacking is a Big Deal, and many would give leniency to Sony if that's a true story.

[1] [http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/sony- faces-4th...](http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/sony-faces-4th- employee-lawsuit-hack-27726230)

<comment><USER12> >the explicit North Korean connection -- threats about the movie The Interview -- were only made by the hackers after the media picked up on the possible links between the film release and the cyberattack

I personally think this is a misinterpretation of what happened. Media began heavily speculating it was tied to The Interview about 1-2 days after the hack was initially reported, but the hackers waited until Dec. 15 before explicitly mentioning it. If they wanted to take advantage of the sensationalism, why continue releasing messages and threats that clearly acknowledge Sony and the media between Nov. 24 and Dec. 15 while not mentioning The Interview until the most likely motive essentially became obvious?

Second, I think the group name "Guardians of Peace" is a fairly obvious allusion to "guarding international peace by preventing Sony from releasing The Interview", and is in line with just about everything they've been saying. And of course they were using that group name on day 1.

I'm not saying North Korea necessarily did it, but I think the actors either intended to stop the movie from the beginning, or intentionally framed North Korea by using a pretext of trying to stop the movie. I don't think they're a group of hacktivists who only appropriated The Interview as a motive after media speculation.

<comment><USER13> >I think the group name "Guardians of Peace" is a fairly obvious allusion to "guarding international peace by preventing Sony from releasing The Interview", and is in line with just about everything they've been saying.

There's nothing obvious to me at all in that name referring to the things we later learned. It's a really generically vague name, so it's easy to project onto it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Out of the 5 possibilities Schneier listed, I found #1 (the one picked by FBI) mostly likely.

> This is the work of independent North Korean nationals.

Mr. Schneier doesn't clearly understand people who lived in a totalitarian country. If this national lives in North Korean, there is no way he will dare such an attack without being instructed by the government. This level of freedom doesn't exist in his mind. And it doesn't make sense for a North Korean still holding the same ideology to live outside North Korea, he would either completely abandoned that or go back to North Korea.

> This is the work of hackers who had no idea that there was a North Korean > connection to Sony until they read about it in the media.

This doesn't explain the Korean language used in the code. It might be a South Korean, but from my knowledge, it's very hard to imagine a South Korean risking going to the jail either fighting for North Korean or even find it fun. (Hint - South Korean people don't like the people from north who are pointing Thousands of cannons and missiles to them). As for why this is not the same encoding as North Korean dialect, I know people from mainland China use encoding of Traditional Chinese from Taiwan. It is very easy for me the imagine that North Korean government offices use such settings so that they can access resources from South Korea (much more abundant and still without language barrier.)

> It could have been an insider

This hacker has been hurting regular Sony employees. From my understanding, only people with mental problems will direct their hatred towards a company to random regular employees (his own ex-coworkers). People with mental problems don't usually possess the hacking skills demonstrated in this case.

> The initial attack was not a North Korean government operation, but was co- > opted by the government.

It is hard to imagine a hacker targeting Sony with the plan to profit from selling the information to North Korean government and then intentionally leave some trace towards North Korea (the Korean language in code). This attack must have originated from North Korea, and that's the conclusion FBI is suggesting.

<comment> vezzy-fnord _People with mental problems don 't usually possess the hacking skills demonstrated in this case._

Depends on the mental problem. The category is far too broad to make a sweeping statement like that. Anything from being slightly narcissistic to being a paranoid schizophrenic can be considered a "mental problem" under one definition or another. Most of these do not involve any diminished technical skills.

In addition, I could cynically retort that anyone who orchestrated such a reckless and damaging attack as this isn't exactly the most mentally stable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Is there any information anywhere of how the intrusion was made? E.g was the admin server for Sony's intranet accessible via remote desktop from the whole internet with the user and password admin/admin? It's a completely different situation than if it consisted of exploiting an unknown vulnerability in SELinux to get remote root access.

</comment><comment><USER16> Their bandwidth is estimated to be in the neighborhood of 6Gbit/s, and they allegedly grabbed 100TB of data. If my math is right that would take fifteen days for them to download.

Unless of course they got a bargain on a VPS somewhere else..

<comment><USER17> They can use USB HDs. They can hack from China. The possibilities are endless.

It's well known NK had been complaining about the movie for months. And I doubt NK started hacking only 2 weeks before scheduled opening day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> This piece is in fact even more speculative than the FBI's announcement.

</comment><comment><USER19> Everybody is a critic. Everybody has an opinion. Everybody is just writing rank speculation. The gov't filed charges, so to speak, so lets see them play out their case.

</comment><comment><USER20> Wired had a good article yesterday too, that made clear that there is still a lot of uncertainty. [http://www.wired.com/2014/12/sony-north-korea-hack- experts-d...](http://www.wired.com/2014/12/sony-north-korea-hack-experts- disagree)

</comment><comment><USER21> But NK sure is a convenient bogeyman for the _real_ agenda: to bring in CISPA: [http://www.zdnet.com/article/white-house-wants-congress- to-r...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/white-house-wants-congress-to-revisit- controversial-cispa-style-cybersecurity-laws-after-sony-attack/)

<comment><USER22> CISPA was already vetoed due to inadequate privacy protections but the fundamental rationale of requiring private companies to share threat information with the government is pretty reasonable. CISPA just needs to be fixed and reintroduced which has been Obama's stance for a while.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> So, legitimate question: how is it possible to get North Korean comments out of a compiled binary?

Somehow I doubt that any supposed North Korean hackers would have followed the tenets of free software and distributed the original source to Sony along with the malware.

<comment><USER24> man strings

"strings is mainly useful for determining the contents of non-text files."

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> What's funny to me is even with, "Freedom of information act," in the USA some Americans act like everything is public record.

It's not. Sometimes, for international relations, things are classified, never released until much later. Having been party to a _minor_ agreement, at least knowing about it, before the general media, gives you a ton of insight into how the USA operates.

To me at least, I came to the, "Business," operating model. In other words, the economic engine takes priority and the agreements I know of that were signed pushed that particular agenda.

Dollars, literally, make the world go round. The US dollar is the world, "Reserve," currency. There's a very good reason for that, and a very good reason the Secret Service is in charge of the US money supply.

Then again, perhaps I'm as much as insider as the author of the blog post. Eg, out of the loop.

<comment><USER26> Literally? Wow.

<comment><USER27> You're supposed to infer the figurative usage from the dramatic commas.

<comment><USER28> You mean the literal usage? [http://www.merriam- webster.com/dictionary/literally](http://www.merriam- webster.com/dictionary/literally) (#2)

* long sigh *

Happy festivus!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> And guessing the tinfoil conspiracy about Sony hacking itself wouldn't stay secret long. :)

My thought is we'll probably never know for certain unless perps reveal themselves, so saying NK definitely did it would be jumping to conclusions.

The real story is: Best. Marketing. Ever. And an international incident, to boot! (Well played, Sony. Even Obama was part of the story.). Seriously, the canceling the release was the story-making move. And the subsequent nonrelease release monetizes the situation. Couldn't have planned it any better. ;)

<comment><USER30> If it was marketing, Sony would not have revealed the private emails of their executives. Obama would also not have stepped in, there is plenty of vetting that goes on in the federal government.

<comment><USER29> Let me explain the joke to you, since you seemed to have missed the cute emoticons.

Satire - making fun of any alternative explanation that obviously isn't true.

Maybe I should be more literal next time.

Merry Xmasmukah and new year!</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Document search on Linux - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/zubairq/visifile <comment><AUTHOR> Hi, I made VisiFile to be able to scan your Linux system for documents and then allow you to search them and find related documents. It is open source, built with:

\- A-Frame \- VueJS \- NodeJS \- Sqlite \- AlaSQL \- Express \- ViewerJS

And many other modules.</comment>


Ask HN: What is your advice for a technical founder learning sales? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Think less about pushing your product, and more about aligning your product to a stated need.

Instead of "how do I get Product X into Company Y," ask "how can I help Company Y accomplish their mission with my product in a way they are currently unable to do?" The flipside of this question is "if I were CEO of Company Y, why should I want to buy Product X?"

Instead of "how do I convince Buyer Z to go with Product X," ask yourself "what are Buyer Z's incentives? Do they need to lower costs/increase their revenue/help their team communicate/etc?" Buyer Z has incentives - some of them corporate-wide, some of them specific to her/his day job, some of them very personal. Try to learn what those are.

Also remember that sometimes it's not a good fit, and that's okay. Preserve relationships. Sometimes you catch Buyer Z working for Company Y, and she says "right now, we're really not focused on $THINGYOUDO, and your price would be prohibitive anyway." Fast forward three months and she might have changed jobs into something that is very much $THINGYOUDO, and she now has a vastly increased budget. Much better for both of you if you have preserved the relationship.

Sales becomes a much easier road to walk if you remember "this person is a person just like me, and they've got things they're trying to accomplish in their day job. Let's see if I can help them out."

<comment><USER3> Along this note, one of the best quick tips I've heard about sales conversations is that you should be doing much more listening than talking, and always start not by talking about your product, but by asking good probing questions about their experience. In many cases, you'll catch something that will directly let you say "oh you have problem X and $THINGYOUDO makes that so much easier by..."

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> "Always Be Leaving" ~ Jeff Thull

I'm a big fan of Jeff Thull's approach to sales, as laid out in his books _Mastering The Complex Sale_ , _Exceptional Selling_ , and _The Prime Solution_. It really goes against the grain of the old school "grab 'em by the throat and don't let go until they buy" mentality. He rejects the kind of stuff you might associate with the sales guys in "Glengarry Glenn Ross" and advocates a much more respectful and honest approach, where the goal is to serve a role closer to that of a doctor or a private detective, than the stereotypical "used car salesman" type.

I couldn't do it justice trying to explain it here, but if this all sounds interesting, I really recommend reading at least _Mastering The Complex Sale_ to get the idea straight from the source.

I also recommend reading _How To Measure Anything_ by Douglas Hubbard. It has nothing to do with sales, at least on the surface. But in terms of understanding customer problems, I think the approach Hubbard espouses can be tremendously useful at a certain point in the process. And I think it can tie back to Thull's idea that if you work closely with the customer to actually jointly develop a solution and explain the value it creates, then there won't be any of the typical "closing" issues, since there won't be any question about the value of the solution.

<comment><USER5> Back in my VAR days the money was always in moving to that trusted advisor role. You move from quoting parts to actually helping design and architect solutions, also helps that when you're involved at projects at that stage the deal reg is almost guaranteed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Would definitely suggest checking out these series of videos from a16z: [https://a16z.com/2018/09/02/sales-startups-technical- founder...](https://a16z.com/2018/09/02/sales-startups-technical-founders/)

They're bite-sized sales videos from a partner over there, I found a lot of value out of them.

For a sales strategy and organizational perspective, "Predictable Revenue" is a useful book.

The hardest thing for me to get right was empathizing with my prospects and their challenges. Putting yourselves into their day-to-day problems can be incredibly difficult to do correctly, but improving that skill really helped me in all aspects of the sales process.

<comment><USER7> +1 these are great. I'm taking part in the Startup School and feel like they should just point people to these videos instead of their own

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'm a technical consultant so the business isn't the same but I do have to do a ton of sales and I've done multiple six-figure deals and generated multiple six figures in revenue per year, so I am able to sell to some regard.

I'd recommend just reading a ton of books. There's a formula to sales that is well documented, you just have to adapt the pieces that work with your personality. The ones I'd recommend reading are:

* SPIN Selling

* Never Split the Difference

* Getting to Yes

* To Sell is Human

* Read any free information online about SPIN/NEAT/Sandler

I read all of those cover-to-cover right before I started my consulting business and it made a marked impact on my ability to sell. Like anything, it's a combination of study and practice. Read a book, figure out the nuggets that are important, then practice those tactics. Learn, rinse, repeat.

<comment><USER9> >so I am able to sell to some regard

Not clear to me what that means. Means sell well?

<comment><USER10> it means they are able to sell but are being humble about it because they are not explicitly a salesperson.

<comment><USER9> Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Not sure what you're selling, but if it's B2B SaaS at all, then Entrepid Partners have a great 40 pager on the sales cycle.

You have to sign up for their mailing list to get it, but here's the static file:

[https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57daf6098419c27febcd4...](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57daf6098419c27febcd400b/t/5b0b4dc68a922dbfa263b389/1527467516482/Entrepid_How+To+Sell.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER12> One thing I've learned: talking to users and potential users is crucial, like everyone says, but it's also crucial to talk to the _right_ users, and to iterate on how you find them.

In the beginning, most people are probably going to dismiss what you've built. That's normal--people have a bias against adding yet another tool to the pile (for good reason). So unless your product is an exact bullseye for solving their problem, _and_ has no real drawbacks, they won't be seriously interested. That's actually fine. You can have an extremely low conversion rate in the beginning. As long as you can find _someone_ who is enthusiastic about what you're doing (and ideally wants to pay you for it), they will show you the path forward.

</comment><comment><USER13> I've always liked this image from UserOnboard

[https://www.useronboard.com/imgs/posts/mario- water.png](https://www.useronboard.com/imgs/posts/mario-water.png)

Source: [https://www.useronboard.com/features-vs- benefits/](https://www.useronboard.com/features-vs-benefits/)

One of the most important part about sales IMO is to remember that you're dealing with humans on the other side who have their own personal and professional incentives. Think about how you can make your customer look like a genius, get promoted, help make some process better/cheaper or get to a business goal quicker. Do you have a solution to help achieve one of those outcomes? This requires listening far more than speaking and will always result in selling solutions to problems...product feature/functionality is just the way to get there. You may be very proud of everything you've built, and rightly so, but the customer only cares about their own outcomes and whether you can help them achieve it.

</comment><comment><USER14> I liked patio11's video training:

[https://www.kalzumeus.com/2013/04/24/marketing-for-people- wh...](https://www.kalzumeus.com/2013/04/24/marketing-for-people-who-would- rather-be-building-stuff/)

[https://training.kalzumeus.com/](https://training.kalzumeus.com/)

<comment><USER14> Also this:

[https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/ama-steli- efti](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/ama-steli-efti)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I sell industrial automation technology for a living. I could write a book on this subject. Really difficult to put into words in a few paragraphs.

I'd just say this: Know your customers, know the market, know their needs, know their challenges.

Ask yourself: what are you solving for?

The answer is your value proposition.

Your value proposition depends on the customer, but you should be targeting a market with similar needs.

"SPIN selling" is a good framework.

You must establish "common ground" with customers. It's how you build rapport and show you understand their needs and demonstrate your competency and expertise.

Technical sales is all about problem solving. It's idenitfying problems (known or unknown to your customers) and introducing solutions that add value to their organization, the product, or the person. Understanding your customer, their environment and needs, and establishing common ground is essential for identifying and introduction technical solutions.

Feel free to email if you'd like to discuss the philosophy of technical sales in more depth: firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER16> Identify your core issues clearly. Sometimes, when your customer reaches the sales process, doesn't understand what you are selling, it's a _marketing_ problem.

Process is everything. If you can map out the entire sales process in sequences, you can find ways to optimize it.

I started my sales funnel with mostly manual touch points, and gradually started adding automation (automated cadences, automated scheduling, and etc) and we were able to increase our efficiency by 200%.

Track EVERYTHING. Each metric matters a lot, and if you don't have a dashboard of all the metrics, you are going to make some bad decisions (learned it through trial and error)

Also read this book: [https://www.amazon.com/Way-Wolf-Straight-Persuasion- Influenc...](https://www.amazon.com/Way-Wolf-Straight-Persuasion- Influence/dp/1501164287)

<comment><USER17> Suhail from Mixpanel did a great talk about this a few weeks ago at Startup School: [https://www.startupschool.org/videos/39](https://www.startupschool.org/videos/39)

His 9th slide here basically outlines how to quantitatively identify what your core problem is: [https://www.dropbox.com/s/a75lejeqli1rmrs/Suhail%20Doshi%20-...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/a75lejeqli1rmrs/Suhail%20Doshi%20-%20How%20to%20Measure%20Your%20Product.pdf?dl=0)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Instead of trying to fight your analytical tech brain, reframe the sales process as a technical optimization problem.

That comes down to looking for bugs that "crash" the sales process(objections) and optimizing performance of the sales cycle by decreasing the time it takes to close.

After every sales call, log objections as well as ideas the prospect seemed to respond to positively in a spreadsheet or CRM. Over time, patterns will emerge and you will naturally optimize for being better at sales.

</comment><comment><USER19> I'd recommend the reddit sales community [0] as a good place to start, and specifically the best of thread.

They'll go over everything you need to know about sales. The first thing to learn is that sales is an umbrella term for a lot of different activities many of which won't be relevant to the type of sales you do.

The first two questions you should answer is what type of sale are you making and to who. Selling a $5/month consumer product is very different from selling $300,000/yr product to the CFO of a fortune 500.

[0] [https://www.reddit.com/r/sales/comments/3y1jb9/the_best_thre...](https://www.reddit.com/r/sales/comments/3y1jb9/the_best_threads_of_rsales/)

</comment><comment><USER20> Learn to develop a deeply secure emotional attachment style.

Once I unlocked this, my close rate and inbound referrals went through the roof.

Literally closing 95% of leads and 100% of leads are from referrals.

Granted, this is in person 1 on 1 work but isn't sense is that will translate into the other work you do.

<comment><USER21> Can you expand on what you mean by that?

<comment><USER22> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> There's a great video from Clever CEO about How to Sell:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZi4kTJG- LE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZi4kTJG-LE)

Basically he can tell if a sales conversation went well by how much each person is talking. If the customer is talking 80% of the time it went well. Vice versa not so well.

</comment><comment><USER24> Read the book _Pitch Anything_. It will help you come up with ways to reach people based on what works for you. It will also avoid the extremely common problem that you're providing logical reasoning to someone whose brain has routed what you're saying to /dev/null.

My wife's natural tendency is to help solve problems for people. Before that book, she'd talk to someone, noticed that the most urgent problem that they wanted solved is her bothering them, and the obvious solution would leave her with no sale.

Now she is able to playfully get their interest and attention. She gets them to talk through a real problem that they have, it doesn't matter what. She helps them work through how to solve it. She doesn't try to sell them anything. It is up to them to decide whether the experience was enjoyable and valuable enough that they wish to work with [https://www.leanst.com/](https://www.leanst.com/) more. Enough do that sales is fun for her, and has not been a bottleneck to growth.

You're not selling consulting and aren't her, so her exact approach probably won't work for you. But I'd still bet that that book will help you.

</comment><comment><USER25> Don't learn sales, learn people. Reading recs: * the social triggers podcasts by Derek Halpern * Start with No by Jim Camp * Demonstrating to Win (super cheesy title but amazing content)

</comment><comment><USER26> Listen to them the way you listen to yourself. That is, there's friction (i.e., their's), how can your brand / product mmitigate it? As well as, what new opportunities might you be able to create?

Then, it's communication. My fave (Frank Luntz) line is "it's not what you say, it's what thry hear." Put another way, clarity and understanding is the responsibility of the sender. For example, if tbe buyer isn't aware of a benefit, that's oon you / your marketing.

Speaking of benefits, features are nice to list - especially if I'm looking for something in particular - but benefits are what move the needle. Doing X is not the same as Saving me Y or allowing me to do Z.

Finally, it's uusually a numbers game. You'll have to kiss frogs. That's how it is. Mitigate that but also listen. Perhaps they have a need as well?

</comment><comment><USER27> My advice: Don't expect to master sales by reading a few books or watching a few videos. Definitely do those things, but becoming a good salesperson takes just as long as becoming a great programmer. It takes a ton of practice and learning. Just trying to set your expectations.

Okay, one more piece of advice: One of the most important skills in sales is follow-up. Don't assume someone is not interested if they don't respond. That might be the reason...but it also might be because they were busy and they forgot to respond to your email. Keep following up with them until they tell you to stop. I've closed deals after sending emails and making phone calls every week for months.

Oh, and thick skin. You need really thick skin because people treat salespeople like s __*.

</comment><comment><USER28> You have one mouth and two ears. Use them in proportion.

</comment><comment><USER29> Don Tempelton's Sales Ready Product concept [1] (adopted by Sequoia), especially the ideas around MVP vs. SRP [2] were very useful to me.

Summary

To transform your product into a Sales Ready Product, you need:

\- Unified Engineering, Product, Design and Sales teams

\- First-hand customer research

\- An inventory of customer objections

\- Understanding of what matters most to customers (and what you can ignore)

\- A qualification list (and the right initial customers)

\- A demo that uses data from the prospect and includes a light switch moment

\- Standardized and unified sales training and materials

[1] [https://www.sequoiacap.com/article/srp/](https://www.sequoiacap.com/article/srp/)

[2] [https://www.inkling.com/sequoia/](https://www.inkling.com/sequoia/)

</comment><comment><USER30> * It is a numbers game. You will fail more than you succeed. But the few successes will be material.

* Train yourself to equate the dopamine hit you get with running a new piece of code you made with the act (not necessarily success) of performing a sales activity. For example, by the end of today, do 10 cold emails and 10 cold calls. Then, feel good about it. Don't worry about the outcomes just yet; get into the groove of performing the act.

* Get out of the room. Always be getting coffee, going to meetups, connecting with groups you part of, etc. The more people know who you are, the more people can help you.

</comment><comment><USER3> Great YC talk about this here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHAh6WKBgiE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHAh6WKBgiE)

</comment><comment><USER31> Sales is like dating. You will get rejected, a lot! Keep at it anyways! You'll get better over time.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER32> Most of all, don't hire a VP of Sales in hopes they'll solve the problem for you. Hire an organized and experienced midlevel person who will accompany you on calls and take care of follow up and closing.

And pay up for a top-quality mentor. An experienced sales exec can coach you and help you navigate the process. Have a call at least once every two weeks, and pay a lawyer-like rate. Who knows, they may become the VP of Sales as the company grows.

</comment><comment><USER33> First and most importantly is a shift in mentality. You are not a technical cofounder. You are a sales person. It is a pretty big change, one that I didn't adapt well to.

But basically sales is making lots of calls, and asking questions. You will not be doing a lot of talking, but asking questions about their problems. Then you talk and specifically outline why your solution fits their needs. Let them digest it, then ask for the sale. Surprisingly sales people are afraid to ask for that because they don't want to be seen as pushy.

But again you don't need to talk all that much. I've listened to a business partner land a 100k deal and probably did 10 percent of the conversation.

Also practice and expect to be uncomfortable for hundreds of calls.

Edit: if you have a good source of leads and make a lot of calls, get a service like phone burner. It automatically leaves a voicemail for the 95 percent of people you don't get a hold of on the first try. I had a boss that refused to use that service, was making at minimum a quarter million a year and would spend an hour+ every day leaving the same message. Apparently 50 bucks a month was too expensive.

</comment><comment><USER34> As a former technical founder? The advice I would give my past self is "get a business co-founder." \- reading business books and business advice is all well and good, but you actually need someone who is good at that sort of thing if you want your company to do well.

I don't know how you evaluate a business co-founder when you don't have those skills yourself. Because of that? When I was a founder, I avoided getting a business co-founder, even turned down several that would probably have been great. But that's the thing, without that side of the house, it's really hard to get the company to go anywhere, even when everything else lines up.

I mean, evaluating people who provide skills you don't have is hard; that's why companies without a technical person on their founding team have such a hard time. So it's really hard to pick a good business co-founder. It's one of those decisions that will almost certainly kill the company if you choose poorly.

But... there are a lot of decisions that will kill the company (or worse) if you choose poorly.

</comment><comment><USER35> Take 100 calls with in-bound leads. I hated it at first but over time got the hang of it. That initial customer feedback is essential. So this is not something you can outsource, you just need to bite the bullet and do it yourself.

One the plus side you'll close more deals because of your status as a founder. It makes customers feel confident that any issues they have will be addressed. So you have it easier than an AE which will pick this up after you.

I also like standardizing a few things: \- customer intake doc (which questions to ask). really a lot of the sales process is listening to the customer and capturing their problem \- explainer presentation. just some slides that you can send after the call. \- setup hubspot, clearbit, fullcontact to make sure you know who your inbound leads are

I also enjoy reading SaaStr, most of the advice is for a bit later stage though. IE how to build your sales team.

</comment><comment><USER36> Listen more than you speak. The customer will tell you their pain points which is your chance to see if you have a solution.

Read "How to Win Friends and Influence People"-Dale Carnegie, to keep empathy in mind when dealing with different people.

Create a system to track all sales interactions in a pipeline. Potential deals enter and move through confirmation stages: customer interested, value proven to customer, customer says they'll buy, purchase order received, check clears and product delivered. Take the $ amount of the potential deal and value it at 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 100% as it progresses.

If you build a pipeline of deals you'll have an idea of how much revenue to expect from your current prospects. 200% pipeline value to your goal would give you a lot o confidence that you'll close enough deals to make your number.

</comment><comment><USER37> What would you tell a sales founder who wanted to learn development? Best option is to be a key part and advocate of the sales process, and getting someone experienced to help steer biz dev.

If that's not an option second best choice is watch and learn. Find sales people who are good that will eat lunch with you often and maybe let you go on a few in person customer calls as a person in the background.

I'll tell you from experience, don't underestimate the skill it takes. I spent quite a bit of time as CTO working closely with a talented team, you'd be amazed at the EIQ and nuance required.

It's hard to explain because the skill set is so different than the product side, and even different from the marketing side.

You'll be visiting a foreign country, but spend enough time there and you'll become fluent enough in the language.

</comment><comment><USER38> Personally, as a technical founder that learned some sales and is still learning, I would say that the biggest mistake I initially did is picking wrong sales "role models".

All "role models" for sales I knew were akin to used car salesmen. They try to push something on you very hard using cheap sales tactics.

This doesn't work in B2B, especially enterprise. Sleaze salesmen are going extinct. People are getting immune to any "one weird trick to get a sale". You are there to solve your customer problem, help your sponsor look good inside their enterprise and only then get paid. Focus on maximizing the value you are providing to the customer, making this value very clear as early as possible and only after that getting a fraction of that value back in $.

</comment><comment><USER39> Some advice that has been helpful for me doing enterprise sales:

"Your job as a sales person is to find the 20 people in this town who have a $100k problem."

You may meet a lot of people who have a $100 or a $1,000 or a $10,000 problem along the way. Be honest that it's not the right time to work together and move on (for now).

It's tempting to want to work with these customers but in the early days, you want to find people with a really big problem. As you grow you'll be able to expand your reach.

This is hard advice to follow because leads are so hard to come by at first and because you want to help everyone if you're passionate about what you're building.

Keeping prices high helps with this because it will disqualify a lot of people that would probably waste your time anyway.

</comment><comment><USER40> I will be contrarian on HN. Hire a sales guy. It's worth every $.

"If you build it, they will not come"

<comment><USER4> There's no doubt that experienced sales people are valuable, but I would argue that there is a point in a startup lifecycle where it's too soon to hire one. For one or both of two reasons:

1\. You're still trying to figure out exactly what it is you're building and how to best price/sell it. That is, you're still in more of a "customer development" mode than a pure "push the accelerator on sales for all it's worth" model.

2\. You don't have any money to hire a sales person, because you're either bootstrapping or haven't raised a round yet.

<comment><USER41> To add to this, if you don't know how your product is sold, your first salesperson is going to have a much harder time doing it since you won't be able to share anything about what resonates with customers and what doesn't. Most of the good salespeople you'd want to hire as your first won't go anywhere that the founder isn't already doing sales.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> One book that came up recently on another thread ( and probably quite a few others as it is written by a YC founder) is "The mom test". I just read it recently, and it is really good! it has an emphasis towards tech people but the advice is applicable to everyone. It essentially guides you to be very clear about what what you want to get out of your interactions with people, avoid people giving you misleading information ( like "wow, great product" when they aren't really interested but don't want to discourage you ), recognizing real commitment from people vs niceties, and having a conversation strategy that leads to good info.

</comment><comment><USER43> Don't confuse Sales with Marketing and don't confuse Marketing with Advertising. If you have correctly defined your market, correctly segmented your sub-markets, correctly defined your distribution & customer acquisition channels and correctly priced your products and services, there is no need to 'learn' sales... customers will be calling you.

Disclosure : I'm a 3-time technical founder with 1 abject failure, 1 IPO and 1 private sale exit who wishes somebody had told him this 30 years ago.

</comment><comment><USER44> Treat sales like learning a new programming language. Become familiar with the foundational knowledge (prospecting, selling, closing) and then dig into systems/frameworks (which are really just books about sales) that people use to sell.

I agree with everyone else here that says "Don't try to master everything". Instead, learn how to speak the language and do enough so you don't miss opportunities. A good partner will go a long way.

</comment><comment><USER45> The hardest thing for me to learn was the million unique aspects of our product that we spent years creating, while they did make the user happy with our product once they were a customer, were not influencers in the sales process.

That's why our Founder/Developers couldn't sell for shit.

But a salesperson could. Because it was blue. Fucking blue.

<comment><USER40> Totally agree.

Self awareness is a killer for most developers. They are too close to the music. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Hopefully you are selling to other technical people, in which case a multitude of sins are covered if your product is truly needed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> A smart guy once told me that the easiest sales pitch is "I've got money for you!".

Think how you convince the buyer that your product will help him earn more money/ save more money. If you can e.g. get a percentage of the money that (s)he makes/saves, that's very often an easy sell.

</comment><comment><USER47> I feel Heavybit offers some great resources (even if you're not selling to a technical audience). I really recommend you to check it out [https://www.heavybit.com/library/](https://www.heavybit.com/library/)

</comment><comment><USER48> What kind of sales? What's the product? Is it Software? Hardware? B2B? B2C? Self serve or high touch? Have you found product market fit or are you still trying to figure it out?

A lot like tech there are tools for every problem and in sales there is a playbook for every kind of product.

</comment><comment><USER49> Think of sales as technique. The method IBM took from NCR provides a framework for understanding where you are and what you need to do next. "Prospect, survey, demo, proposal, close" Contains psychological truth upon which you can build a machine that pumps money.

</comment><comment><USER50> Classic marketing theory is great. Esp analyzing buyer behaviour [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_behaviour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_behaviour).

</comment><comment><USER51> I don't see that anyone has mentioned the obvious - Sandler Sales Training

[https://www.sandler.com/](https://www.sandler.com/)

Get actual training as opposed to watching videos or reading books.

</comment><comment><USER52> I think the book Traction by Gabriel Weinberg is really good: tractionbook.com

</comment><comment><USER53> 2 books: 1. Spin selling by Neil Rackham 2. Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes

and of course ... taking action - making those calls and scheduling meetings.

</comment><comment><USER54> New things are hard. Don't be put of by failure. You can do it, I believe in you.

</comment><comment><USER55> Don't. I mean it: if you are good on the technical part, focus on it and do it as good as possible and let someone else to do something that you don't know enough. You cannot become the master of everything, but it is fairly easy to become the master of nothing: don't go that way.

</comment><comment><USER56> Is this a consumer product or business product?

</comment><comment><USER57> Who are the founders?

What is their background?

What are they selling?

Who are they selling to?

</comment><comment><USER58> If they don't like you, they won't buy. Sure there are exceptions but it's an excellent rule of thumb.

Look at Trump: hate him or love him virtually every person he meets face to face comments on how warm, interested and compassionate he comes across as. BS or not... that's the way most perceive him.

Oh yeah, and this Is a hard and fast rule. The instant that they say yes; Stop selling. You never know if that one more thing you consider to be a benefit will backfire and make them decide not to purchase.

</comment><comment><USER59> Listen first.

</comment><comment><USER60> i recommend two books

SPIN selling is good for technical products that needs lots of explaining.

Challenger sales is advanced and tough to master but the ideal target just from statistics-those who challenge the prospect with a market insight. Craziest thing I learned was you introduce your product at the last slide! You really get into the prospects world and then challenge the old way of things...thats all i can remember....also marijuana is legal in Canada today so its kicking in so im in the writing mood.

I'd love to write a bit about my experience as a sales engineer and also selling SaaS tool ($99~999) over thet phone if anybody is interested...basically I went from being a coder to hustling.

edit: [https://medium.com/@browsercoin/hustle-code-a-hackers- guide-...](https://medium.com/@browsercoin/hustle-code-a-hackers-guide-to- peddling-your-software-online-580e838d10cd)</comment>


Leisure Suit Larry - <AUTHOR> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1451923705/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again <comment><USER3> One interesting fact: Leisure Suit Larry is pretty much directly based on the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softporn_Adventure> text adventure game. If you try it, you'll find the plot and the surroundings very familiar.

Personally I discovered this while reading [http://www.amazon.com/Hackers- Computer-Revolution-Anniversar...](http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer- Revolution-Anniversary-ebook/dp/B003PDMKIY) which I recommend to anyone.

<comment><USER4> Wow... according to Wikipedia, the women on the box were all employees of On- Line Systems, the precursor to Sierra. One of them is a bookkeeper! I'd be curious as to how the convinced them to pose naked on the box.

<comment><USER5> Well, it says one is Roberta Williams, who co-owned the company. And the hot tub.

<comment><USER6> Talk about setting an example to your employees...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The game has no major female characters who aren't hookers.

No arguing that LSL has its place in gaming history, but it doesn't have a place in a future that is trying its hardest to remove objectification of women from society.

EDIT: The down voting button is not a disagree button. If you disagree, reply!

<comment><USER4> I have to agree with i386. There's a pretty disturbing screenshot where Larry says that "this is the hooker's seedy bedroom. The bed's a mess, so is the hooker!".

[http://www.replaygamesinc.com/wp- content/uploads/2012/04/tum...](http://www.replaygamesinc.com/wp- content/uploads/2012/04/tumblr_lik4z2KBjJ1qambyno1_400.jpg)

<comment><USER8> Which bit to you find disturbing? The fact that the game acknowledges the existence of hookers, the fact that the game draws attention to the fact that many hookers work out of pretty seedy bedrooms or the fact that the game draws attention that many hookers end up looking less than their best.

Would you have preferred "this is the hooker's fabulous bedroom. The bed's perfectly clean, so is the hooker!"

<comment><USER4> Try not to use begging the question as an argument.

But what makes me sad is the second part. Because it's in a game, and it's done to be funny.

I'm not shocked by the existence of hookers. I should be, but I'm desensitized.

<comment><USER9> Oh come on, how could you ever be shocked by what is commonly known as "the oldest profession"?

I'm not saying it's a nice job, but neither it is fixing sewage pipes. You should be shocked that _pimps_ exist, maybe, but then again their role is quite natural and I'm sure some of them are quite the professional. The massive amount of abuse surrounding the "industry" is a problem, but it's hardly the only industry where management can abuse the workforce.

<comment><USER10> While I tend to agree with your sentiment, comparing prostitution to fixing sewage pipes is not really a fair comparison. Also, the number of industries where abuse by management involves physical violence is rather limited (as far as I know). I believe I understand what you are saying, but I think these points weaken your argument.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> If you want to play King's Quest I, Police Quest I, Space Quest I or a few other Sierra games legally in your browser (HTML5) right now, go here: <http://sarien.net/>. The blog says that they used to also have Leisure Suit Larry but had to take it down since Activision had sold the IP.

This was posted on Hacker News a couple of months ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3591342>

<comment><USER11> Also, various groups have remade Sierra games:

Kings Quest I/II/III, Quest For Glory II: <http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/games.html>

Space Quest II / Kings Quest III: <http://www.infamous-adventures.com/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I remember asking my parents for the age verification questions to be able to run LSL when I was a kid. I would head downstairs and ask her random trivia questions because it was easier than asking the Encyclopedia Britannica or what passed for the internet in those days. Obviously this day and age this is not possible due to Wikipedia, but in it's time and place it made me more likely to play rogue and/or do something productive with my computer.

Not sure if anyone remembers that aspect of it, but I still do.

If there was a moral story, it was lost on me at that age, and not likely to revisit it. Certainly better than Custer's Revenge, which is a horrifying concept and makes me very sad.

If you think that LSL is a good and relevant example of misogyny and bad attitudes towards women, then apparently you never turn on your TV, watch movies or look at at advertisements around you. A rehash of LSL is the least of our problems in this space.

People feel better when you treat them as people, not objects. This goes for men and women. We're all human and deserve a lot of respect and understanding.

Some people probably like the cheap thrills that the game offers, some are nostalgic, some may be interested in social commentary. This is all quite all right and healthy.

// I got Neil Young's "Pochohontas" associated with that terrible game. AAAAAAAAHHH. :'(

<comment><USER13> Do you recall what kind of questions the game would ask? Most games typically asked something out of the user manual.

<comment><USER14> Al Lowe has all the questions listed <http://www.allowe.com/Larry/1questions.htm>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I think the fact that this is primarily a PC port with iOS/Android merely a possibility is a deal-killer for me, thhe content notwithstanding. I'm not saying that PCs aren't technically the largest gaming platform by user base...I'm saying that the largest base of casual gamers with money to blow by far is iOS and Android. From what I remember, LSL and Kings Quest were largely casual in mechanic.

Secret of Monkey Island and several of the modern Capcom adventure games (Phantom Detective) have made successful transitions. If this is being built from scratch, why is this not focused on what is clearly becoming the biggest casual gaming platform?

<comment><USER16> Because the game is not going to be casualized, that was clearly stated - <USER2> will not dumb it down. If it's a problem then I guess you don't have to chip in. Lets just vote with wallets.

<comment><USER15> Sorry, just because something is "stated", like, "This game is going to be the best game ever made", doesn't necessarily make it so. How exactly is LSL going to be made less casual than the original? Is there a first-person shooter being integrated into it? 3D graphics? Will it require a dedicated controller?

Assuming all the answers to those questions are no, then this is a game that would easily fit on the Android/iOS platforms, where much more complex adventure games have already been ported (Secret of Monkey Island, Capcom's Phantom Detective, etc).

<comment><USER17> From the video I saw it looked like they were planning to make tablets a first class citizen with this game.

I can however see this going more for the nostalgia market than the "casual" market as such.

I can see that it would work well on a tablet but there may be other reasons to port to the PC first.

For example there the already existing codebase (although massively out of date). Also their developers may be more familiar with programming for the PC, so it may just be quicker to bring to market on that platform. Also at the moment there are just more people that own PCs than there are who own iPads.

If there is sufficient interest/funding for this project I doubt that it will not be released for tablet devices at some stage.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Why stretch it out more? LSL was fun, but it's time is passed. Why not something new like "Skinny Tie Sam" or "Pleather Pants Paul"? Create the world from scratch and don't be beholden to what's come before.

 _edit_ in case anybody is interested, they should check out Matt Chat on Youtube, some of the most compelling interviews with adventure game designers of the past...

Here's Part 1 of "Al Lowe" (designer of LSL) <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PGGEFQdZuw>

<comment><USER19> Agree. Larry was a child of its time. There should be no remake of "National Lampoon's Vacation", and for the exact same reason, for LSL.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I never played the LSL series but I'm a big fan of the classic adventure games (Space Quest and Full Throttle -- if you've never played them, you've been robbed). Maybe if this works out we'll see some more revivals. This genre in this style was completely lost in the rush to move everything to three dimensions. There are moments and feelings that simply can't be captured by other genres. The fact that they hold the rights and have Al Lowe on board makes this unbelievably cool. Good luck, guys!

<comment><USER21> _Full Throttle_

I had an interesting OMG moment a while ago realizing that was also one of Tim Schafer's games.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Looks like they ran out of money or are just looking to pocket some free money, considering they announced the project last year : [http://www.egmnow.com/articles/exclusive-leisure-suit- larry-...](http://www.egmnow.com/articles/exclusive-leisure-suit-larry- returns-in-hd/)

</comment><comment><USER23> If amazing adventure game developers of yesteryear continue to start Kickstarter projects, I am going to end up seriously broke.

</comment><comment><USER24> Space Quest! Space Quest! Space! Quest! SPACE QUEST!!

<comment><USER25> I absolutely agree with you. But if they make LSL for now, it'll keep me occupied and happy for a while before we get to meet Roger Wilco again.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> I think this genre of games is ripe for a comeback on iOS. Just try to avoid having the keyboard pop up all the time and it should be great.. Although discovering the secret commands and hidden jokes by randomly trying words was half the fun of the old Quest titles.

<comment><USER27> I've started an ios game in the spirit of SQ2, have done a lot of the code, production artwork for a few scenes, and scribbled artwork for all the rest. I'd love to finish it but my designer is too busy to continue.

<comment><USER24> Got any scribbles to share? Sounds really interesting.

<comment><USER27> Have a look if you're interested:

<http://lauradesign.com.au/on-fire>

<http://lauradesign.com.au/to-the-bat-cave>

<http://lauradesign.com.au/what-the-rock-is-that>

I've made an objc framework for quest games, ready to go, just need lots of artwork. Maybe we'll finish it one day...

<comment><USER28> Too bad the project has stalled... these look great.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Ever wish sometimes you could take money _away_ from Kickstarter projects? LSL is one of those things that should be left in the '80s.

<comment><USER30> Why? There are people who might enjoy this. How does this bother you?

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I'm thinking a film would be better as Larry hits the social networks and stumbles across a plot to spike drinks city-wide, something mixing American Pie, James Bond and Austin Powers - with/without CGI females?

</comment><comment><USER32> Loved this game as a kid. My granddad had a computer with it installed. When he was downstairs talking to my parents I'd load it up. At the beginning of the game it had a bunch of questions to 'prove you were and adult'. I rarely got past those questions! That was half the fun, when I actually got in the game I didn't really know what to do but loved the way you could apparently do anything.

</comment><comment><USER33> Someone please bring Starflight back. Hell, they could simply use the exact story of the original and its sequel and have two great games.

Well provided they don't make it first person :P

There are so many great games from the eighties. Many of them had to have original elements and wit because they were so constrained by the machines of that day.

</comment><comment><USER34> How sad. A remake for 500k? Really?

The 8-bitness of the old-school games gave the old sierra games their magic. I would have loved to play a new larry game, but this just makes me sad.

What a waste...

</comment><comment><USER25> I just pledged $25. I encourage others do to the same!

</comment><comment><USER35> This brings back memories

</comment><comment><USER36> I wrote an iPhone game that's extremely like Leisure Suit Larry, about a year or two ago. Same spirit and game mechanics. Called "The Adventures of Khaki Pants Pete". Pretty much a nod to LSL, even the name was a tongue-in-cheek reference to it's name. I did it under contract for a dev shop that in turn did it for the company that owns the Klondike Bar. A lot of people said it was pretty fun. I thought it was fun. And I'm old enough to have played LSL version 1.

From the LSL Kickstarter project goals:

* The freedom to play on mobile devices * A modern point-and-click/touchscreen interface * Updated, ultra-high res graphics * Fully voiced characters * Even more of the humor that's made Al Lowe a household name…like "Borders" and "Enron"!

Khaki Pants Pete did/does all of that, except the voiced characters. Has music and audio feedback effects, but only on-screen text dialogue bubbles. Though pretty funny.

I'm not sure if I like or dislike the fact that their KS project has set a goal of raising $500k to fund developing it. I know our/my budget for making Khaki Pants Pete was much much less than that. My slice was much smaller anyway. :)

clarification: I did not design the game play or script, but I did design and code the entire game engine from scratch, solo.

<comment><USER37> All of what you have said certainly sounds great for your game.

It sounds as though the only thing missing from KPP may have been fully voiced characters. Tough to tell -- but, presuming that were the case, would alone be a drastic difference.

Pile on top of that the nostalgia, association with the character and franchise, and every other intrinsic benefit of a genuine over imitation and it becomes a different conversation.

*edit to correct acronym

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> now even kickstarters are going for the 'sequel' trap?

LSL is dated now. it was fresh when it was made.

how much more time they could have put into an ORIGINAL product if they haven't filled the pockets of big-game-studio?

hint: to people that actually likes games, a title that sports some well know adaptation is often associated with a bad experience to come. It's often the cheap game made to cater to parents buying xmas gifts without a clue.

<comment><USER11> They're remaking the original Leisure Suit Larry games (at least the first one), not creating a sequel (although they said they might also create the nonexistent Leisure Suit Larry 4: The Case Of The Missing Floppies if they are successful.)

Also, I don't think these particular games are a good example of games made to cater to parents buying xmas gifts. :)

I do agree that the games feel dated though (even if they update them slightly as they suggest.)</comment></comment>