Can I buy your side project? - <AUTHOR> My business partner and I want to jump into a cool project. My partner is a software developer and I'm a marketer/sales guy.
We're looking for side projects with users that are not monetized or just not making a lot of money. Our ideal partner in this would be someone who loves building things and wants to get compensated for doing so, but isn't as excited about running a business and doing marketing.
Email in my bio
Thanks!
Grant <comment><USER2> Look I totally think that if you can negotiate with someone and come up with a deal that all parties find equitable, that that is legitimate business, and I'm not sure why you should meet resistance on that front.

However, I am not sure if this is the type of thread that I would like to see on hacker news.

<comment><AUTHOR> ok thanks

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is a weird way to go about things, especially since most "side projects" these days are open-sourced by default. Why not come up with your own idea?

<comment><USER4> > most "side projects" these days are open-sourced by default

what???

<comment><USER3> *side projects that aren't already a for-profit endeavor (why would someone sell it if they're already making/planning to make money?)

<comment><USER5> Isn't there a bias because open-sources projects are those more easily seen ?

What happens to those projects that are put on "wait" ? I doubt everyone just put-on his work free of consequences

<comment><USER3> Personally if I start hacking on something, and the idea doesn't immediately stand out as something I might want to build a business out of, it goes straight to a public GitHub repo.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Knowyourlead.com I work on a team of engineers with a few side projects if interested. firstname.lastname@example.com

Www.knowyourlead.com you can get a instant trial and play with it but Haven't gone live yet (turned on payments, finalized marketing messaging), business is proven by high priced competitors with a lot of overhead and I was taking it the low over head automated route. Was going to clean up a few things and release in April.

</comment><comment><USER7> Would you be interested in investing in a invention that I do not have any money to get started better yet if you wanted to just pay me for my idea and only when you start making money on it I would be happy with 5% my name is Ashley and my email is email@example.com if your interested.

</comment><comment><USER8> I have an SEO based tool that's been limping along because I'm neither good at marketing nor interested in learning in order to scale it up. Its a customizable audit tool.

If that sounds interesting to you, get in touch with me and I can show you more.

<comment><USER9> hey, I'm interested in checking this out. please contact me via the email in my bio.

Would love to buy this.

<comment><USER8> Okay!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Have a look at gitgrep.com and quicklog.io and let me know if interested in either of those. I also run hackerer.news but that's a public service and to keep me from wasting too much Fomo time 'refreshing'.

</comment><comment><USER11> How can someone trust you with their valuable ideas and already in-motion projects?

<comment><USER12> Make sure there are clear milestones and metrics with an earn-in vesting schedule. The last thing you need is a stranger who immediately owns 25 or 50% of your company doing nothing except collecting rent 9or encumbering you're business.

That said, if the arrangement can be structured to be fair to both parties this sounds like a great deal.

One particular thing I'd warn techies about are "business guys" asking for an ever longer list of uncompensated enhancements, only after which they put in their effort. If anyone suggests this — run. Both sides need skin in the game.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree w/ you on this.

Complicated earnout arrangements aren't something we're interested in.

We're interested in taking over businesses and using our skillset (marketing for me / software for my partner) to unlock value in the business

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I have a stock trading algo that tracks over 500 stocks profitably. Never been able to market it on the web. Even in today's market. Website is in my profile, not for sale but can license it.

<comment><AUTHOR> if it's really profitable why don't you raise a fund

<comment><USER14> Aren't there others similarly profitable? Doubt they can all raise funds. Or would want to.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm confused

If you have a profitable strategy that scales up, raise capital to execute on it. Doesn't seem too hard.

<comment><USER14> What about bootstrapped companies? Basecamp technically took Bezos' money, but pocketed it mostly. 1Password didn't take "funding" until now, again, mostly to cash out.

Gumroad was scalable and makes a decent amount of money. It just wasn't for the way the VCs wanted. So it didn't work out that way, but the founder was still making mid 6 figures.

<comment><AUTHOR> if you had a machine that could profitably pick stocks why would you ever invest just your money (not a lot) vs other people's money (could be infinite if your strategy scales)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Mine is pidtuner.com, currently have 1000 engineers visiting each month. Not much, but quite specialized.

</comment><comment><USER16> keto.fm

please buy it from me. it's a content site but could evolve to be an indiehackers for keto. There wasn't a site out there last I checked.

</comment><comment><USER17> What is your budget?

<comment><AUTHOR> we have access to capital for the right thing

<comment><USER12> I am intrigued. It would help if you could share some success stories where you have done this, perhaps with before and after.

<comment><AUTHOR> hey we can talk email me (in bio)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN (India): If you are not from IIT/IIM how do you achieve credibility?  - <AUTHOR>

While meeting investors in India a lot of time our business plan faces the same questions, as none of the founders/co-founders are from the IIT or IIM. Its hard for us to get funding inspite of a good idea.<p>Any suggestions? <comment><USER2> Some suggestions:

1\. Bootstrap until you are profitable. More than anything else, investors look for a viable and lucrative venture. If you can show them an active revenue model, they won't care about much else.

2\. Try other options like seed investment, angel investment etc. Some Ycombinator-like venture programs based in India were mentioned here sometime back. Ref: [http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2010/02/18/bringing-y- co...](http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2010/02/18/bringing-y-combinators- incubator-model-to-india/) and <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=56153>

3\. Join a local startup meet like proto.in

</comment><comment><USER3> "While meeting investors in India a lot of time our business plan faces the same questions, as none of the founders/co-founders are from the IIT or IIM."

I suspect a genuine investor could care less where you studied, but, assuming you are facing skepticism _only because_ you didn't get an MBA from one of the IIMs, may I suggest that if your investors specifically care if you are from IIT or IIM (vs the intrinsic business/tech merit of your idea) you are talking to the wrong people - probably old fogies with money with no idea of how either business or tech works.

I don't think succesful seed funds like YCombinator (just taking an example) obsess over their applicants having attended elite schools. Why should these guys?

I second nreece's suggestion. Get an active revenue model first. All else follows.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the great feedback.</comment>


In Canada 50Mbps internet now considered a basic service - <AUTHOR> http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-internet-essential-service-1.3906664 <comment><USER2> Let's not get too excited here:

1 The CRTC (our version of the US FCC) chairman said (in the linked article): "The commission's approach to affordability has always been through market forces". Market forces like competition?

2 Three companies control ~90+ % of the Canadian internet market (Rogers, Bell and Telus).

3 Canada has _the highest_ mobile ARPU numbers _in the world_ because of the 'market forces' here [1].

4 It's well known in Canada that the Liberal Party (recently federally elected) is very 'cozy' (not my word) with the big 3 telcos[0].

Merry xmas, Canada's telco oligopoly. Don't spend that 750million all in one place!!! Yours always, PM Trudeau

[0] [http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/24/liberal-party- cozy-r...](http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/24/liberal-party-cozy- relationship-bell_n_9541032.html) [1] [https://www.statista.com/statistics/203642/forecast-for- the-...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/203642/forecast-for-the-global- average-revenue-per-mobile-user-in-2015-by-region/)

<comment><USER3> I moved to Toronto from the EU a while back and can confirm that the ISPs and mobile carriers are all awful.

Horrific service, decades old technology (I'm still on 3G in Toronto), traffic quotas (low ones at that) and all options are rather expensive.

I had a quick look around, and in .SE you get about 40GB of mobile traffic for 90CAD. The same amount of money will get you 10GB of traffic at Bell in Canada.

The story is identical for residential broadband. It is truly an embarrassment.

<comment><USER4> I live in small-town BC and get 150/150 for $85 a month with no caps. Surely you, in the Centre of the Universe[0], can do better than what you have now.

[0] How non-Torontonians sarcastically refer to Toronto

<comment><USER5> I live in the GTA area, and pay ~$40 for just 12/1 (on Acanac).

I honestly can't wait for gigabit fiber to expand to outskirts like Ajax and Oshawa.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Very nice. In switzerland we only have 4 mbits basic coverage but everbody has by law to get it anywhere he lives. The internet is too essential for all knowledge driven economies and therefore should be guaranteed for every citizen like water and power.

<comment><USER7> Easy for such a small country to say. Canada's population is much more spread out, over a much larger space.

<comment><USER8> Canada's population is highly urbanized and concentrated in cities near our southern border. More urbanized than Switzerland (GP comment). Not an explanation for our uncompetitive mobile and broadband data markets.

Canada urban population: 81.8% of total population (2015)

Switzerland urban population: 73.9% of total population (2015)

\--

[0] [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world- factbook/...](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world- factbook/fields/2212.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Find this funny. Where 1GB LTE data only costs $75/month. That would be about £5/8CAD in the UK.

PS: population density isn't that important for cell service, before people start saying that. In fact higher population density is actually really expensive for cell coverage. A 700MHz LTE site can probably do 50km range these days.

<comment><USER10> With Fido in Quebec, I pay 15$/month for 3GB on a data-only plan. I run my phone (voice calls) over SIP (using VoIP.ms) for less than 5$/month. VoIP.ms also does SMS.

I wouldn't recommend it to someone who uses voice calls a lot, but in my case most people text (signal/WhatsApp), even my clients. I have a desk VoIP phone for important calls (I do a lot of sales and support).

<comment><USER11> I was thinking of doing the same thing. What voip app do you use?

<comment><USER10> csipsimple on Android

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> Also, let's not forget how awesome the similar US National Broadband Plan [0] worked out...

[0] [https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150728/08375931774/shock...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150728/08375931774/shocker- billions-broadband-subsidies-wasted-as-government-turns-blind-eye-to- fraud.shtml)

</comment><comment><USER12> I live in Romania, where 100/100 is the cheapest and worst service you can get for $6.45, while the most expensive option is 1000/300 at $9, without any data caps.

It always strikes me as really weird and potentially bad that providers not only don't invest in infrastructure, but actively try and limit the use of their current one in every western country. I'd love to see a study on how much profit the economy's losing out on thanks to this.

</comment><comment><USER13> Somewhat unrelated, but I'm home for Christmas at my mom's house, and she has a nice and fast 50Mbps fiber connection. However, the Wi-Fi is able to sustain about 1Mbps. I don't have a specific point about this but Wi-Fi can drive you crazy.

<comment><USER14> Heh, reminds me of a 100 Mbps fiber connection I had... with the slowest router in existence, which could only push 45 Mbps before literally dying (simply stopped responding). I wonder if the ISP used those on purpose...

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> As somebody that lives quite literally half way between Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa the closest town (one I also live in) still doesn't have fiber and barely proper Cable/DSL. They have the TO-MTL Bell fiber backbone going along the Heritage Highway (the St. Lawrence River) Everything is over Cable here. 250/20 Mbps and Unlimited data is over $130 a month, but not everybody in the city can get that. Most of the city is still on old Bell copper which is just DSL speeds. 6/.5 Mbps "maybe" and if you want to use your phone at the same time the line being so old and congested you will probably get dropped.

The second house I live at is 15 KM north of this city. I have no Bell (copper of any kind), no Cable... Just Hydro. Meaning my next bet is to installed a 80'-100' tower and do Wireless Internet (2.4 GHz and 5.6 GHz technology). 6/.85 with a soft cap of 200 GB at $66 a month or 10/1 with a soft cap of 200 GB for $100 (this is only for certain Sectors which are suitable, luckily I am one of them).

This is on top of paying monthly for the equipment rental or buying it out right. The towers alone can cost $1,000+ (it was $250 just to have it anchored with guide wires). Let's not even get started on Ping Speeds I'm thankfully between 30 ms to 150 ms on average. But I've hit over 1500 ms on days, and Rain Effect (especially being in Canada where it snows A LOT) makes connections almost impossible.

Though I would love the CRTC to do something of this, I'm sure I don't qualify as "Remote" or "Rural" enough. It's a scam really (3ish major providers with 1% or so it seems of actual coverage) and if you work from home you are literally out of luck. Especially when within a 25 KM radius there are only TWO cell phone towers. The one that is closest that provides the best signal and speeds is slightly off on its pointed degree and angle so I can't pick it up so I receive the farthest cell tower away which gives me about 1 bar of 3G, I'm often on 2G (which will be shut off soon) and rarely LTE. Then if I do use my cellular data that's $52 per ONE GB over your plan. Its a pointless battle.

I understand most of the population lives within a few hours of the border, and "remote and rural" are priorities but even people 20 minutes away from big cities have it rougher than most think. Something needs to be done.

</comment><comment><USER16> And here I am paying $23.60 for just 10Mbps [1] ಠ_ಠ

[1] [http://www.une.com.co/internet](http://www.une.com.co/internet)

<comment><USER17> How about $40/month for 12, but capped? [0]

[0] [https://www.exetel.com.au/broadband/nbn](https://www.exetel.com.au/broadband/nbn)

<comment><USER13> $55/mo for unlimited though. That's pretty acceptable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Mods: I submitted this article (link to the exact same article, exact same url), before dgudkov. How did this submission get accepted as being unique?

</comment><comment><USER19> I'm lucky to get 1.5mbit out here in the sticks with centurylink for $45/mo, without any upgrade plans. Internet in rural America leaves something to be desired.

<comment><USER20> I'm on CenturyLink's newer fiber offering (symmetrical 100Mbps) and am happy as a clam. Until I have to call them.</comment></comment>


70 Groups Tell Congress To Put The Brakes On Any Further Efforts To Expand IP - <AUTHOR> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120206/11033317671/70-groups-tell-congress-to-put-brakes-any-further-efforts-to-expand-intellectual-property.shtml

<comment><USER2> Maybe it's time to have a closer look at the numbers that matter here and who it is that is pushing so hard to get these kinds of licenses to collect money through.

Certainly none of these oppressive regulations with all their side effects from censorship, loss of civil rights to medicine and industrial espionage would even be discussed if it wasn't for the music industry.

As we are constantly flooded with their products, let's have a look at how big that industry really is. The IFPI - their industry body - has just published global music sales at $16.2bn for 2011. Yes this is the industry as a whole and globally - not just one company. And it includes all digital music sales (strongly rising), subscriptions etc. With these revenues the global music industry as a whole does not even make it into the list of the 200 largest corporations.

Now what would you do when - for lack of a better example - the global Christmas Tree industry (was about the same size but due to recent effects of globalization has lost substantial revenues) would treat every citizen like a criminal, put up surveillance measures that would make every totalitarian state proud, put you or your children into prison with punishments similar to murderers, tries to extort fees from you / your children for minor offences that could make up the last 10 years of revenues of one of their mid-size member companies, and would ask everyone who buys a blank DVD/CD to pay them because you could actually save an image of a Christmas tree on it. Let alone all the gardeners that are really responsible that nobody wants to buy 10 Christmas trees every year for $100 each. Those really have to be hunted down.

This metaphor aside, if you look at these numbers ($16.2bn) that on a global scale are very small even for a single business to attract such attention (these are revenues not income), it becomes obvious that something is substantially wrong here latest when you look at the hundreds of millions of "lobby-money" paid in the U.S. alone.

Besides that I believe it is fair to say that the damages from such legislation for all citizens and other companies will most likely be on par with the $300bn damages recently calculated from excessive IP/Patent "usage". That is millions of jobs and the lives of millions of families.

Maybe it will help to tell your congressman that (s)he is selling the lives of thousands of people in your constituency for a dinner sponsored by a local shop in Hollywood. A small Christmas tree might also help ;)

(IFPI numbers at [http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jan/23/global-music- sal...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jan/23/global-music-sales) )

<comment><USER3> Very insightful comparison, thank you.

The push is not only coming from the IFPI, however. There is also the movie industry, which is a much larger industry. I can't find exact numbers offhand, but this article places global box-office receipts at $31bn -- and that's not including media sales or rental revenue. [http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/0...](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/02/industry- report-international-box-office-revenue-soars-in-2010.html)

<comment><USER4> What might media sales be? Another $20 billion? Let's say $40 billion. That's $70 billion + $16 billion = $85 billion, or less than Apple by itself. That puts the entire music + movie industry somewhere around the same revenue as Kroger (the grocery store): <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroger>. Does Kroger have anywhere near the political clout of the music+movie industry?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Here is the PDF of the letter sent to congress, signed by all parties (inc Mozilla, Reddit & Amnesty):

[http://www.publicknowledge.org/files/Public_Knowledge- Intern...](http://www.publicknowledge.org/files/Public_Knowledge- Internet_Letter_to_Congress.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER5> It doesn't matter. The US just has one vote on the UN's WIPO [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Org...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Organization). I've no idea how you get 185 member states to decide that 50 years after death is a good minimum length for copyright. Imagine the good they could do if they agreed on anything useful!

<comment><USER6> The one vote of the US doesn't matter. Historically, the US has been the biggest funder of the UN, and traditionally the organisation is dependent on the dues of the US being paid. The US tends to use this as a bargaining chip, which is an awful lot more powerful than just one vote. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_United_Na...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_United_Nations#The_U.S._arrears_issue)

Bear in mind that we're not even talking about US diplomatic efforts here, which typically sway many nations in exchange for other favours.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's interesting that Google is not on that list, especially after they have participated in the black-out. I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and ask: did they black-out simply for publicity?

<comment><USER8> I also don't see Wikipedia. Strange.

<comment><USER9> Wales asked the Wikipedia itself to vote on whether there would be a blackout. Here on HN there were a couple comments that they were disappointed to see Wikipedia doing advocacy. I think asking Wikipedia itself is a good line to follow as far as protecting its interests without Wales and the other people who physically control Wikipedia using it for their own political goals. So it is in character.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Why submit or upvote a 3 sentence summary of [http://www.publicknowledge.org/70-groups-ask-congress- halt-w...](http://www.publicknowledge.org/70-groups-ask-congress-halt-work- intellectual-prop)

</comment><comment><USER11> Censoring the Internet should be demonized and ridiculed as people using botnets to ddos sites. Its the same thing really, getting a bunch of people together and deciding something should be unavailable to everyone without including the justice system.

I hope one day to see some politician convicted of conspiracy to destroy a national asset in exchange for bribes as a convicted botnet user who used it to ddos sites.</comment>


Stream and Purchase your Favorite Shows/Films - <AUTHOR> http://mediahound.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> I honestly think this site is fabulous. DISCLOSURE: It is not my site.

Although I think the idea is less novel than others, I think the presentation is great. I haven't seen as smooth a UI/UX in a while.

Overall, I think the site is pretty awesome. What are your thoughts?</comment>


Ask HN: Examples of well done keyboard-driven interfaces? - <AUTHOR> There was a recent tweetstorm that went around the internet about how computers in the 80s were perceptually faster than modern computers[1]. I'm not interested in arguing for or against this claim, but the author made the claim that keyboard driven interfaces are more user friendly than mouse driven ones. I'm inclined to believe this for many application types, particularly data entry and retrieval, which is probably the majority of business software out there, but I'm not familiar with any good, relatively modern[2] applications done in this style. So does anyone on HN have examples they can share? Ideally something I could try out and use.<p>[1]: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/927593460642615296 [2]: Not modern in the sense of "modern javascript" or "modern c++", but just meaning still maintained or made within the past few years. <comment><USER2> Modern? Both vi and emacs are "still maintained" and are both keyboard driven interfaces that huge numbers of individuals consider good. You can try out both on most Linux distributions.

Other examples from Linux/Unix systems are the Joe editor, which ships with configuration files to emulate several other keyboard driven editors. Also the "less" file viewer, as well as the "mutt" email client and the "tin" usenet news reader. All are also "still maintained".

For less modern, WordStar and Visicalc and Lotus123 all had fully keyboard driven interfaces. Lotus123 added menus and such in later incarnations but retained the keyboard driven interface. And in all of these cases they keyboard interface was not "the keyboard simply drives the GUIs menus and windows" but true keyboard driven without menus. How you could try any of them out today would likely involve a VM (i.e, VirtualBox), loading an old copy of Dos, and finding an old copy of one of them to install in the VM.

<comment><USER3> Spacemacs has a pretty great keyboard driven interface too and somehow it clicked with me more than both vim and emacs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's not strictly keyboard-only, but several music notation programs (eg., Finale) have a keyboard (QWERTY) interface for quickly entering music. They have a MIDI keyboard interface, too, but that's obviously not what you are asking. :)

I would say that the advantage of a keyboard (non-mouse) interface is that you don't have to "aim" in order to move to the next component, you just press "enter", "tab", or an arrow key.

Having said that, many spreadsheet programs could be considered to support a keyboard interface, as well as your favorite calculator app.

EDIT: Adding that many command line tools fit this. Of course there are text editors like Vim, but also tools like htop.

</comment><comment><USER5> AutoCAD has always had a command line that shows commands even as you're using the UI. It's neat to pull it up and see the command history, and also makes text commands more discoverable.</comment>


The Infamous Apple Syntax Poster - <AUTHOR> http://log.scifihifi.com/post/8938535087/the-infamous-apple-syntax-poster-however <comment><USER2> All the information comes from: <http://www.prosperlogic.com/syntaxposter/>

(Click on the main image to go there.)</comment>


A $12,000 open-source hardware platform to develop electric vehicles - <AUTHOR> https://electrek.co/2017/01/11/tabby-evo-open-source-hardware-platform-to-develop-electric-vehicles/ <comment><USER2> Well, the Tabby Evo - with all due respect - looks like a slighty beefy golf cart and actually costs more or less the same as what you can probably buy a beefy golf-cart-like vehicle with. Like - say - a Polaris Gem.

The news are about the joint-venture (or whatever) with Renault for the POM (the "open source" version of the Twizy):

[https://www.osvehicle.com/](https://www.osvehicle.com/)</comment>


Show HN: Goms is a ready-to-deploy schema driven adaptable platform - <AUTHOR> https://goms-demo.herokuapp.com
This is a very early stage demo for Goms.
1. Independent User registration / User sign-in
You can create a public site or a private site, or mixed. Was using auth0 earlier but felt it as an extra step during setup. Authentication/Authorization is a first class component.
2. Native support for user defined entities
Create extensively related entities, eg. (Clothing)"Style" has a "Style File", some "Order" and "Costing", and "Order" has "Vendor" associated to it. Entities you see in this demo are defined here [1], [2]
3. Oauth Connections and Tokens ( Live Sync Google Sheet [3] )
We are handling "data exchange" with the external world (think google sheets, slack messenger, other APIs) as a first class citizen.
To demo this, four of the entities defined (using our JSON above) are synced to this Google sheet [3]
- Blog - Style - Order - Vendor
Whenever one of these is created, goms will call one/some REST API.
- Oauth connection details configured using JSON files - Access tokens and refresh tokens:, complete oauth2 flow - Tokens/passwords stored securely to avoid accidental leak
4. Behind the scenes
- Everything is backed by a relational database - Built in golang with goals to compile for IOT devices as well - The view/dashboard is completely detached from the backend

  [1] https://github.com/artpar/goms/blob/master/gomsweb/static/samples/blog.json
  [2] https://github.com/artpar/goms/blob/master/gomsweb/static/samples/style.json
  [3] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ru-bDk3AjQotQj72k8SyxoOs84eXA1Y6sSPumBb3WSA/edit?usp=sharing
  [4] https://developers.google.com/sheets/api/reference/rest/v4/spreadsheets.values/append
 Github: https://github.com/artpar/goms
You can deploy using readily available docker -p 8080:8080 run goms/goms, or "Deploy to Heroku" button.
Would love feedback on all parts of Goms. Plus welcome hackers who can help in identifying holes.
PS: this is a demo instance. please use dummy details to sign up. nothing is tracked though. <comment><USER2> You should repost this with a direct link.

<comment><AUTHOR> I wanted to, but I was afraid since my documentation at GitHub currently sucks, and a direct landing to a "Sign in" / "Sign up" page wouldn't be intuitive at all.

Adding links here again for clarity/tldr;

[https://goms-demo.herokuapp.com](https://goms-demo.herokuapp.com)

[https://github.com/artpar/goms](https://github.com/artpar/goms)</comment></comment>


Lucky iron fish - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_iron_fish <comment><USER2> The really interesting detail here is that making them fish-shaped is a critical marketing strategy. They previously tried giving out iron discs or iron lotus flowers, which had poor adoption rates.

</comment><comment><USER3> "The subsequent trial found that, compared to the base blood iron rate at the beginning of the trial, individuals using the iron fish had increased levels of blood iron after 12 months, and the rate of anemia decreased by 43%.[5]

A randomized control trial in 2017 found that the iron fish did not increase hemoglobin concentrations in a sample group of 340 Cambodian women."

These sentences seem to contradict each other. Or does it mean that the concentration of iron in the blood has increased, but that it did not lead to more hemoglobin?

</comment><comment><USER4> You can buy these here: [https://luckyironfish.com/collections/all/products/lucky- iro...](https://luckyironfish.com/collections/all/products/lucky-iron-fish)

They might seem a bit pricey for what it is, but they operate on a "buy one, give one" model, so it's a pretty good deal considering that. They make a great gift for anyone in your life who needs more iron in their diet.

<comment><USER5> If you live in a developed country, you don't need one. There is iron in a wide range of common foods, both naturally-occurring and artificially- enriched. "lucky iron" fish are useful for people living on subsistence diets.

<comment><USER6> * unless you have a chronic iron deficiency

<comment><USER7> Iron supplements are probably a better way to fight that, I'd think. Those are also readily available in affluent societies.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Sounds great, but the research cited seems to have conflicting results on whether it's effective?</comment>


Ceefax: The early days - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20032531

<comment><USER2> For those interested, this was a great service too. Early days of investing and retriving historical data on companies via 4tel's Shares 3000 pages was the only way for private investors to get data freely!

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmjKAM1NVWE>

</comment><comment><USER3> Ceefax was a great example of quality sub-editing - every headline was exactly the same length, but they generally sounded natural and communicated plenty of information

<comment><USER4> These restrictions fed into the website, too — hence every BBC News article having a very short lede paragraph.

The headlines' noun-heavy wording also helped spawn the concept of "crash blossoms" — syntactically ambiguous headlines that had amusing alternate readings: <http://www.crashblossoms.com/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> The various teletext services in the UK were a powerful connector in the days before a consumer internet. Someone up thread mentioned stock information available to consumers - probably helping contribute to the boom in the general public owning and trading stocks along with the rash of privatizations that happened in the 80s.

Buying discounted airline flights and package tours through the TV; classified listings... all great precursors of online commerce, normalizing it ahead of the revolution that came with the web.

But the strength of Ceefax in particular, among these services was the written content. Well written articles on up to days news (often long before other sources), and sports (instant sports results - an amazing service in its time), which foreshadowed the great BBC website that eventually followed, probably teaching institutional skills that carried over.

Ceefax and the commercial teletext competitors represent another example of where solid government sponsored innovation can have big societal benefits and provide a roadmap for business to follow.

</comment><comment><USER6> Brings back happy memories of hacking on the BBC Micro.

        > MODE 7
        > PRINT CHR$(136);"GOODBYE CEEFAX!"

</comment><comment><USER7> There was a portion of the Ceefax bandwidth given over to downloading BBC computer programs: [http://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/content/Acorn- Teletext-A...](http://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/content/Acorn-Teletext- Adapter/)</comment>


Ask HN: Have you seem any "scam news" popunders? - <AUTHOR> The other day I was on a file sharing site that a friend had uploaded a file to and I got a popunder that looked exactly like CNN with a headline + article claiming that a certain local politician was involved in a scandal. Of course, it wasn't actually CNN.<p>Have any of you seen something like this? <comment><USER2> It's fairly common in the shadier parts of the internet. Such side-opened pages can even host various exploits (if you are on Windows) or fork bombs (in the old days).</comment>


Newly-Discovered Planet Has 3 Suns - <AUTHOR> http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/newly-discovered-planet-has-3-suns <comment><USER2> I would love to see an animation of their orbits.

</comment><comment><USER3> Trisolaris!

<comment><USER4> The first thing I thought too, when I read this. "Trisolaris" is a reference to an amazing sci-fi novel, "Three Body Problem" which I would highly recommend (it originally came out in Mandarin, but it has a great translation): [https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Cixin- Liu/dp/07653...](https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Cixin- Liu/dp/0765377063)

<comment><USER5> I highly recommend this book, it was amazing. A challenging read, requiring a tiny bit of knowledge, but worth it. It reminded me a smidgen of a Russian novel, where the story of someone's background and family and motivation is crucial, and you need to go a few generations back to really understand someone.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> So what is the deal with people from under the orange sun? They're all...

      v|^   ^|v   v|^

But us guys from under the red sun, we're like...

      u)n   n(u   u)n

Right? Am I right?

<comment><USER7> For those that don't recognise this, it's an ASCII quote based on an animation/scene from a Futurama episode entitled "My Three Suns"

[http://www.tv.com/shows/futurama/my-three- suns-1540/](http://www.tv.com/shows/futurama/my-three-suns-1540/)

The planet in this episode is surrounded by three Suns, each of which has a different hue, and the play is similar to the astrological signs that exist here on Earth.

(And I for one appreciated the ASCII animation attempt)</comment></comment>


When the Data Bubble Bursts, Companies Will Have to Actually Sell Things Again - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcoexist.com/3059722/when-the-data-bubble-bursts-companies-will-have-to-actually-sell-things-again <comment><USER2> Select a new thing X. Choose between "X is a fad/bubble" and "X is a fundamental paradigm shift". Write article. Profit.

<comment><USER3> I don't think this article deserves that label. It is about producing entertainment that serves the dual purpose as an advertisement which is incredibly common but seems to be something people aren't paying much attention to.

People don't seem to realize that if you see an article about a product or a company etc. that article was organized by a promotion company being payed by the people who make what the article is about.</comment></comment>


The Rise and Fall of Working from Home - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-10/the-rise-and-fall-of-working-from-home?utm_campaign=news&utm_medium=bd&utm_source=applenews <comment><USER2> The Telecommuting Trap, by danjoc J Anonymous.

Big Co decided to join the telecommuting craze to compete with scrappy startups. Employees seemed to like the idea of not spending hours in a car generating pollution each week so they went for it.

Then the trouble started. Instead of facing a regular 8 hour day like normal office workers, they faced round the clock emails and calls from work. Their privilege, it turned out, was more of a curse. Server hiccup at 2am? Fix it from home, sleepy head.

Not only were they worked round the clock with no overtime pay, but the lack of face time with management had a knock on effect. It turns out those who stayed at the office got to be better friends with management. Got better perks. More raises.

While those telecommuters... they received suspicion. Disdain. "What do they even do all day? Why am I paying them? Sure, the servers keep humming, but that's just normal behavior. They must be taking advantage of my good will!! Lazy telecommuters!"

Secretly though, management harbored impostor syndrome. If telecommuters can work from home and can manage themselves... who is there left to manage? Gulp. What happens to my job?!

In the end, the paranoia of management led them to kill the program. The work was done just the same, but at higher cost and to more dramatic effect. Management watched the work happening again, justifying their own existence. But since everyone had been set up to work from home already, workers could still be expected to put in off hours too! It was truly the best of both worlds now.

</comment><comment><USER3> I really believe working from home isn't suited for everyone. I find it hard to focus and with limited space in my flat, I don't really enjoy working from home. Whenever I have appointments or different runs. What companies to be is flexible with allowing ad-hoc requests to work from home.</comment>


How I feel, when in GIT [animated GIFs] - <AUTHOR> http://wheningit.tumblr.com

<comment><USER2> I don't know if it's because it's late but omg this is hilarious!</comment>


Inside the Hotel Industry's Plan to Combat Airbnb - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/technology/inside-the-hotel-industrys-plan-to-combat-airbnb.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> I just stayed at a Hilton because my house was renting on Airbnb.

Hotels suck for large groups of people. A home is much better.

I was wondering why the short-term rental law in my town is so absurd. The hotel industry probably helped write it!

<comment><USER2> I live in Anaheim and they banned Airbnb because the hotel tax (because of Disneyland and visiting sports teams) is 17%. Airbnb's didn't and wouldn't pay it, so they got the ax.

<comment><USER3> I don't know the specifics of Anaheim but I work for Airbnb and we are eagerly working with local governments to pay all required taxes. There is no reason not to.

<comment><USER2> I work for Disney (but do not represent them), and the tax reason was one that we had floating around our office. I tried to find a good source, but I couldn't. I'm probably wrong, but here is at least a rundown of the situation: [http://www.ocregister.com/2016/07/01/bye-bye-airbnbs- short-t...](http://www.ocregister.com/2016/07/01/bye-bye-airbnbs-short-term- rental-owners-reeling-after-anaheim-says-they-have-to-shut-down/)

Doesn't give much of a reason why STRs are banned other than some homeowners not liking it.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Go East, Young Man - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/opinion/china-as-a-destination-for-job-seekers.html?_r=1 <comment><USER3> I'd like to add a bit of personal perspective to this op-ed.

I personally know the author, Jon Levine, in fact, I'm the guy that got him the "dead-end job" with my family's firm. He's a member of the "I have an Ivy League degree, I deserve a job" a set. Never mind his degree was in history and political science, he felt entitled to a prestigious, high paying job in the worse economy in 70 years.

After a 5 month job search without a callback, I stepped in, did a favor and got him an entry level position at a very small PR firm. This was not a "dead- end job", he was the first hire at a newly formed company, there was definitely an opportunity for him to grow his career in a highly lucrative field. But, being that he went to NYU and Columbia (notice the name dropping in the article), growth didn't come fast enough for him.

We accommodated him (time off, flexible hours) while he spent two months trying to find another job. When nothing stateside panned out, he gave us three days notice before leaving for China. It's been a very surreal day for me, I'm incredibly disappointed that he chose to criticize a job which he only gained through my action.

I don't know whether any of you should go to China, but hopefully I've given you a little perspective on why he did.

TL;DR: I know author, he couldn't hack it stateside, took China job as last restort, not as some enlightened life decision.

<comment><USER4> What you did to help seems very friendly and supportive, but it's apparent to me that you're taking out some unmentioned frustrations in this post. Truly, it sucks to give someone a shot and not get the thanks you deserve for that. This guy sounds like a flake.

I still think that it's possible that you did a nice, commendable thing to help him, AND it was a dead-end job to him. It sounds like changing things up was exactly what he needed. Also, moving to a (very) foreign country to make a living doesn't sound easy- I think it's easier for me to "hack it" here in Silicon Valley than to move overseas in search of happiness.

Different strokes for different folks.

<comment><USER3> I'll admit that the base pay wasn't great, though most compensation was bonus based, and the work load was chaotic (very busy one day, nothing for four days), but here's a timeline and I'll let you judge:

He joined us in August... We launched in November... He started shopping for another job in January... He quit in February...

He is my girlfriend's childhood friend's younger brother. After doing a year of postgrad at Columbia, he spent April to August looking for job, which did not pan out. I was putting together all of the tech for this firm, I knew they had an entry level position.

There was no interview process, no whiteboards, no nothing, I said "Hire this guy, he's hard working and smart, and look at those prestigious degrees!" They met him and then offered to hire him next day. So, this guy went from no call backs in a five month job search to being offered a job after a single interview.

Of course he felt that we were under utilizing his skills (he felt like a glorified secretary), but PR is a networking business, clients want to talk to the guy they've worked with for 20 years, not some dude who started a month ago.

I don't mean to drag all this out into the public, but, this op-ed is the definition of adding insult to injury. I like to make connections, if I know about an opportunity, I really enjoy putting people together. It's something I've always done and now I'm going to question myself every time because this blew up so badly.

<comment><USER5> > I'll admit that the base pay wasn't great, though most compensation was > bonus based, and the work load was chaotic (very busy one day, nothing for > four days), but here's a timeline and I'll let you judge:

What you're describing does kind of sound like some type of a dead-end job. Little pay, fucked up hours, chaotic environment.

> He joined us in August... We launched in November... He started shopping for > another job in January... He quit in February...

Sounds like he stuck it out for as long as he could. Two months with no pay will do that.

> I don't mean to drag all this out into the public, but, this op-ed is the > definition of adding insult to injury.

All this over one line that names no-one...?

"NOT long ago, I was stuck in a dead-end job near Greenwich, Conn."

I'll assume there is more to this story.

<comment><USER3> He was paid from day one (in August).

Google author name and see if you can figure out his place of work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I didn't move to China, but Korea, working for a large conglomerate. I was there for two years. I wasn't particularly young, but in early 30's with two kids. There were several expat from the US.

IMHO, the move to the East is worse for Asian Americans than for Caucasians.

Why? Because they expect certain things from what they consider the same race than Caucasians. Over and over, I have seen Caucasians getting a lot of leeways and tolerance for their behaviors, as they look very different from Asian Americans. For Asian Americans, especially those Korean Americans who could speak the language in Korea, they expected the same behaviors as native Koreans. If you don't display what they expected socially, you get cold shoulders. It's even worse in business settings where everyone plays savvy office politics in ever subtle ways. If you can't read or play them, your career will not go anywhere. I've seen VP-level Korean American guys getting crushed, after moving to Korea to jumpstart their careers. I've heard the same from many Japanese Americans who moved back to Japan. I am not sure if it would be the same in China. But, I've also read about Chinese companies hiring Americans or Caucasians for nothing but to increase their credibility for being able to hire a Caucasian.

So if you are a Caucasian, yeah, it could be worth it. As a second or later generation Asian Americans, probably not so much.

<comment><USER7> +1 for this, it sucks being a westernized Asian precisely because you're getting squeezed in between 2 cultures when you try to work in Asia. China is worse than Korea or Japan, if you are ethnically Chinese then you can expect to be treated as a Chinese Citizen in China.

Multinational companies in Australia have gone so far as to be advised not to send ethnically Chinese executives to do business in China see here: [http://www.smh.com.au/business/fears-beijing-targeting- ethni...](http://www.smh.com.au/business/fears-beijing-targeting-ethnic- chinese-executives-20111225-1p9jq.html)

I haven't tried to work there but when I am in China I basically 'act local'. I wouldn't think about working there because as you said I would get crushed politically and socially in an office environment as my language skills wouldn't be up to par and my thought processes would be too Western when I would be expected to act Chinese.

<comment><USER8> Curious if you think there are any places somewhere globally where being a Westernized Asian is advantageous the way being a Caucasion is advantageous in Asia.

<comment><USER9> I think only Caucasians enjoy the benefit of being a privileged group wherever they go.

<comment><USER10> Louis CK has a great bit about how white people can take a time machine and end up anywhere and be worshipped (at least, in the past): <http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Louis-C.K.-Chewed-Up/70108425>

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> > _Many critics have rightly pointed out the shocking failures of the Chinese > food safety system — the most famous being the tainted-baby-formula scandal > of 2008. But what you may not know is that China meted out swift justice in > that case to the perpetrators. That is more than can be said for the > handling of many corporations in the United States that have harmed their > consumers and remain unpunished._

Wow, what a naive fool. Does he really think justice was meted out through these hurried executions? Quick justice is often a symptom of scapegoating.

<comment><USER11> Exactly. If you like this kind of "swift justice" you're going to love China, I guess.

The comparison between Fox News and CCTV is ridiculous as well - Fox might suck, but it's not a government channel and is only one voice in a wide spectrum of US media.

It's one thing when you read this naive BS, from entitled middle class Westerners who never even met anyone who actually dealt with the harsh side of an authoritarian regime, in Reddit or HN. To see this in the NY Times is truly disappointing.

<comment><USER12> I agree, this guy really hasn't seen the ugly side of China if he's writing like this. It's a scary goddamn place, and as much as everyone on Reddit/HN complains about the US, we're still lightyears ahead of China horror stories.

<comment><USER13> What horror stories? Do you mean kids regularly gunning their schoolmates? oh, sorry, that's in the USA?

<comment><USER9> No, horror stories like infants dying of tainted baby formula because farmers tried to increase the protein count of their milk (by lacing it with a known poison). Like a child dying from being run over twice by cars because nobody thought to pick him out of the street. Like parents abandoning or killing newborn girls because they wanted a boy. Like criminals enslaving young men to work at brick kilns. Every once in the while, there might be some lunatic gunman in the US (as there are in every other country). In China, there is a pervasive sense that human life is cheap.

<comment><USER13> The tragic occurrences you cite are not specific to China, even if some Chinese themselves seem to think so.

<comment><USER14> Not tragic. Didn't happen to Americans. :)

(See what I did there? Stop being so blindly nationalistic--admit that China has some pretty heinous issues re: food safety and consumer safety/confidence [fair or not])

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Instead, I'd say come to Taiwan. All the same good food (or rather even more!), friendly people, great nature, multicultural society, technology everywhere, foreigners are treated well, entrepreneurial spirit, more customer protection (and people stand up for themselves) - and don't have to fight the Great Firewall and political decrees at every step.

(Been here for more than three years and counting:)

<comment><USER16> Been there. Done that (twice). My two three-year stays in Taiwan were some of the happiest days of my life, and both times led to new career opportunities when I returned to the United States. Taiwan is wonderful for immersion in an entrepreneurial, forward-looking culture of people who are happy to live free.

<comment><USER17> I did the same thing -- two three-year stints in Taiwan (separated by six months in China and SE Asia). I arrived in 1993 with a duffel bag and about $1000, and proceeded to make a life there. The learning curve was steep, but it was wonderful. I learned Mandarin, got my career off the ground, made tons of expat and local friends, traveled all over, and generally had a fantastic, eye-opening adventure.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Article's espousal of moving "East" here seems a little misguided to me. I've been working in Beijing for the better part of 2yrs and from what I've seen, basically wouldn't suggest moving out here unless you're in it for the long- haul.

The "white-hot" job prospects the author talks about are mainly for English teachers. If you take a look at the job sites he listed, 90%+ of the positions are English teaching. That is all well and good as most Eng teachers here DO make easy money, enjoy a good lifestyle, and get to explore Asia, but all the while they are really just killing time... most leave after not too long and very few are able to succesfully use it as a channel to career advancement/development.

The people who should really think about moving East are those who have developed some real skills & experience other than just being a "Native English speaker", and know there will be some kind of deep-relationship with Asia throughout their careers. I would think that these people are likely to learn the language, stay longer, and do a lot better.

For CS grads or people in tech, if you make the move to one of the larger int'l companies you can make up to 3/4 of the salary back home and live a better lifestyle, AND end up saving more.

Again, like other's have said, it's not for everyone, but for some it can be a great move.

</comment><comment><USER19> Levine takes an approach to China very much in contrast to my own. From the article, it seems he spends most of his time travelling, relaxing with other expats, and teaching students that are excited about English. As for myself, most of my time is consumed by studying Chinese (a Mercer-like feat), work, and meals with friends (the cheap food costs make dinners out an everyday occurrence, not a once a week treat).

Despite the differences, we both seem to possess the same feeling that life in China possesses a relaxed quality that is hard to find. Even though banks, train tickets, and anything requiring an ID (for instance, internet cafes) can be a complete bureaucratic nightmare, day to day life has a certain peacefulness to it. Perhaps that peacefulness stems from the acceptance that the world around you is hectic and chaotic in a way that is at least somewhat hidden in the U.S.

Of course, other posters are correct in their assertion that you pay for that life in a number of ways. Pollution, reduced wages, poor internet, drinking water from jugs, hospitals operating while still under construction...But I for one feel it is worth it.

For those who have not, I strongly urge you to visit the country. I think you may be surprised by how much it differs from your expectations.

As an aside, I find it humorous that the OWS movement inspired him to move to China. The income inequality here is arguably worse than in his own area. You can buy a scarf on the street for 3 USD, walk a few kilometers and buy one for 100 USD inside a glitzy shopping center. Those at the top live lives of princely luxury compared to those at the bottom selling roasted sweet potatoes from their bikes.

<comment><USER20> "Even though banks, train tickets, and anything requiring an ID (for instance, internet cafes) can be a complete bureaucratic nightmare, day to day life has a certain peacefulness to it. Perhaps that peacefulness stems from the acceptance that the world around you is hectic and chaotic"

Yes! That's my experience as well. I lived in Hong Kong as well, where you can experience Chinese culture in an international city, eat whatever cuisine you want, and enjoy a very convenient lifestyle. High-class shopping centres, fun nightlife, and the MTR runs like a Swiss watch.

Still, I didn't like it as much as Chengdu, which is sprawling, polluted and a nightmare to get around. But living there was strangely relaxed and adventurous - anything can happen, so you don't try to fight it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> "Pollution is horrible, the country is governed by a strict authoritarian regime, and I can't guarantee you won't be poisoned, but come! There are jobs!"

I am 100% sure China is as socially diverse as the United States, and there are lovely people and places. Really though, this is about as tepid a "come hither" piece as I've ever seen.

<comment><USER22> Also, the government does totally not fake numbers, does not actively buy cars and other products to create temporary, fake demand spikes to attract western companies to produce in China but only under license in a Chinese owned and -run factory oh and personally I am totally not convinced that they just downright play with the global economy and bend our own Western capitalism to their advantage in very questionable ways.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I have worked in Beijing for more than 4 years as a researcher for a big American company (Microsoft). Its not that bad here but you definitely have to fight the traffic, pollution, and the great firewall. The political situation is mostly transparent to us, except via web blocking and some weird archaic events (military parades anyone?). Other places in China are a bit better in terms of environment but then those cities are not as comfortable in western niceties (e.g., coffee shops).

If you are experienced in tech, you can always get a job here that pays fairly well; maybe 80% of what you could make back home if you are just a good developer, more if you are very experienced or in management. The talent market in China is very skewed toward junior workers, and so experience is very much desired. The tech scene here is not very deep, although their are some entrepreneurs who do startups (most of them that I know of are in mobile gaming).

<comment><USER24> Agreed. The tech scene here grows every day, there seems to be some sort of start up event every other weekend.

<comment><USER13> Yep. In the web company where I work we hire 2/3 new employees per week.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I was working out of Dalian and Beijing for a number of years straight after my postgrad as a software engineer / project manager. Great experience, learned the language, was given a lot of responsibility and it was either sink or swim.

Lots of 16+ hour days, they worked me hard but I learned an awful lot. It's a great way to see the world, travel and get exposed to a completely different work culture / ethic.

It's not for everyone but it is definitely an experience that you won't forget!

</comment><comment><USER20> Surprised no-one here is talking about programming/startup jobs in China. I know there is a small Chinese-based hacker set on HN, so maybe they'll show up later to chime in with more expert opinions.

Basically I've been planning for a few years to make China the focus of my 20s, thinking that being at the convergence of technology and a rising superpower would be pretty powerful. Taught English there in 2007, travelled there again in 2009, studied in HK in 2010 and interned for a games startup in Chengdu last year.

Still, my current plan for the next few years is to stay in the UK - the main reason is that salaries for programmers in China just aren't that attractive. Also, if you want a serious career in China (in whatever sector - <USER2> entrepreneurship as a career here) - a lot of people have advised me that it helps to gain a track record in the West before making a serious move out there.

Note: the following is a mix of experience, second-hand reports and conjecture, I'd really appreciate someone in the know telling me where I'm wrong.

As a graduate programmer competing with Chinese graduates, it looks like salaries are between 5000 and 10000 RMB/mo, depending on location. If you can somehow leverage your foreignerness, you can get more, though I can't think of many ways to do that in the tech industry. Experienced technical management is in high demand, but not really an option straight out of university. Joining a big tech company (Tencent, Baidu, Shanda etc) and hoping to work your way up isn't that great an option, since there's no reason you'll be able to outcompete your hungrier Chinese colleagues. Joining a startup, maybe, but you'll still have to find a way to contribute beyond programming to make a better salary than the next FOB laowai teaching English or pretending to be a DJ. Starting a startup is of course an option, but even riskier out there (I'd feel able to start a tech startup in the West right now, wouldn't think of doing it in China without a few more years real-world experience).

Anyone actually working in China's tech industry with alternative views? Would love to hear them.

<comment><USER23> I make much more than 10K a month in Beijing without leveraging my foreign- ness, most of my Chinese colleagues pull similar salaries. A new graduate from a decent school could expect to make 18 or 20K a month, a newly minted PhD probably more. Laowai startups here often don't pay well and look for low-end talent accordingly, its nice to access low-end talent but you get what you pay for. For my friends who run startups in the 'jing, it works for them but just barely.

One of my American friends just did a stint at a big Chinese tech company. He was willing to immerse himself, but the cultural differences were just too great. They had time cards for software developers for crying out loud (and no, it wasn't a consulting company)! Suffice it to say he's decided to do a startup.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> As far as economic disparity between rich and poor, social liberties, and corruption: China is far, far worse than the US. Maybe some people can find jobs in China teaching English, but you throw away a lot of other things. This article is optimistic at best.

<comment><USER27> > As far as economic disparity between rich and poor, social liberties, and > corruption: China is far, far worse than the US

Citation? The only data I can find, shows they are on par with disparity between rich and poor. What data are you sourcing that conclusion from?

Social liberties, very difficult to measure. But I am interested to why you think China is far worse? If you mean they have less "Rights" (from the US Bill of Rights)... then that is probably true of most countries. But in terms of Social mobility, I'd intuitively say that china probably compares favourably to the US

Corruption is certainly an issue, China (75th) ranking far worse than the US (25th) on the Corruption Perception Index[1]. But keeping in mind it is a perception index, and doesn't adjust for bias.

I don't think the article is optimistic, I think it's realistic, China is a booming economy with a lot of job opportunities for "Westerners", compared to the US, with it's shrinking (or shrunken) economy...

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index>

<comment><USER28> I'm seeing the same data you are; China and the U.S. look about the same in terms of wealth and income distribution within their respective populations. Wikipedia provides a handy reference:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> as a new us immigrant who is originally from mainland china and lives in the us for 1.5 years, I have a totally different opinion with this article. the advice I always give my friends who still live in china is 'leave china as soon as possible, for yourself and your family'. Saying cctv gave fair news just make me laugh. and food was great? he didn't know the extracted oil from drain or dead animal? the freedom you have in china is to download pirated softwares/videos and make your free speech when facing the wall. well, those were just my complaints, but what I didn't agree with this guy was he didn't see the big picture. china is now facing a dead end, and I don't see a way to turn around. the big conflict between gov and citizens, the huge gap between rich and poor, the aging population....

<comment><USER30> I hope China finds its way out of these problems with minimal duress.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I suspect that many more Chinese, given the option, would emigrate to the West.

<comment><USER30> I worked in Shanghai, 2001-2005, at an established multi-national. Most of my Chinese colleagues at the time have either already emigrated, or would like to. Yes, there are opportunities in China, and but even for these rather well- advantaged folks, life looks better elsewhere.

And it's more about education, housing, health and lifestyle than pure earning potential. Not having to game the system by having your second child in HK, for example. That would be nice. Or not worrying so much about food quality. Not having to bribe teachers for equitable treatment at school. Not having to prepare for a monolithic college entrance exam. Actually owning your own property outright, at less spectacularly inflated prices. etc & so on.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> As someone who's recently made the move to China (Hong Kong, and not teaching English), I can say it's a great way for native English speakers to jump start their careers and get responsibilities much faster than at home.

Hong Kong is a bit easier getting used to due to a free internet, less pollution, and stricter food safety laws. But I guess there are more opportunities on the mainland.

<comment><USER33> How does your salary in Hong Kong compare to your previous jobs? Is it at least on the same binary order of magnitude?

Grad jobs in Australia offer at least the minimum wage of $40k per year. Note that I haven't seen a single job offering only $40k. The very very low end of what I've saw is $45k+. I've heard of offers of over 100k for really talented graduates.

I asked around in Hong Kong, and graduates there are only offered around HKD$15000 a month. That is only $25k per year.

I haven't mentioned the long working hours, expensive rent, and relatively expensive cost of living compared to the salary.

<comment><USER34> I moved to HK over a year ago. This is my take:

Top paying jobs are with international banks. You'll make pretty much the same here as you will working for them in London or NY (so, 100K+ yr, for example). From there, salaries slide to ridiculously low levels. (EDIT: it's my understanding that, due to the current economic climate in Europe, most of these banks aren't hiring).

It's a pretty bad place for any passionate programmer to end up. There's an overall lack of passion, risk is avoided at all costs, and creativity doesn't exist. It isn't just in the banks either...there's something culturally different.

I've never worked in a factory..but in my mind, it's inbetween working for a real startup and working on a factory floor. Which explains the long hours you mention...when you work 10hours every day, it's hard to be super passionate and creative.

As for cost of living. Rent is expensive. If you want to eat at a fancy $300-a-plate restaurant every night, you can (and probably a different one for many months). You can buy fancy clothes and expensive jewelry. But, if you are willing to, Hong Kong lets you live cheaply (rent aside). Remember that taxes are ~16%, with no sales tax and no capital gains taxes. If you make $150K, your take home is ~125K.

<comment><USER31> Americans are also subject to U.S. taxes on the amount over $92,000.

[http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/resources/blog/expat- tax...](http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/resources/blog/expat-taxes- explained-filing-taxes-as-american-living-hong-kong/)

<comment><USER34> Right, sorry, I knew that. I'm Canadian and things are a bit different. Canada and Hong Kong don't have a tax treaty, which could be horrible for me. However unlike the US which requires that you pay taxes for 7 (??) years after leaving, Canada lets you declare yourself as a non-resident and forgo paying any Canadian taxes going forward.

You need to be very careful (hire a good accountant) because you don't want to owe back taxes + interest + penalties if you ever come back, but it's doable.

I've heard of people leaving Canada for 10 years, not paying any Canadian taxes...grossing millions..coming back and having the Canadian Revenue Agency (CRA) say that, in their eyes, they were always residents and having to pay 500K+ in taxes/interest/penalties. (a big part of it is how many ties you keep in Canada, if you own a house, or your wife/kids stay in Canada, those are "primary" ties, and make you a Canadian-resident for tax-purposes).

<comment><USER35> > However unlike the US which requires that you pay taxes for 7

Not 7, "infinite". You can be a US citizen by birth, leave when you are a week old never to return, and owe tax on everything you earn in your lifetime above the ~$93K/yr limit.

The only way to completely avoid the US claiming taxes is to renounce your citizenship... although if you do that for economic reasons they can legally prevent you from ever visiting again (although I understand that's rarely if ever actually applied)

It's a mess if you're a US profesional with any aspirations of working abroad. On the other hand, our billionaires tend to stay put rather than fleeing to Switzerland so the policy does have its desired effect I guess.

The issues with the CRA are pretty much the same all over the world: people try to game the system by claiming they moved away while "really" living in their home country. If you make enough money away from your home tax authority expect to show some documentation. Even in the US this happens with people who claim to have moved to a low-tax state while still maintaining a residence in a different state; you need to prove you weren't within the state's borders for more than X days or the tax man will want their take. Nothing unusual about Canada in that regard.

<comment><USER34> Once upon a time if you stayed out of Canada for 2 years, you were pretty much guaranteed to be exempt. Now it's more subjective.

Nevertheless, I agree it isn't bizarre or unique. The lack of a tax treaty with Hong Kong is unfortunate though. It's not even on the table from what I understand.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> After having lived in Asia for about 5 years now, I can relate with that post, at least in terms of optimism. Back in Europe I felt that everything was slow and stuck in time, but in Asia you get a feeling that things are actively moving forward, that there is life in the streets. Societies in Asia (I generalize on purpose) feel more dynamic overall, there is a clear sense of freedom flowing in the air.

<comment><USER9> Freedom? Which parts of Asia were you in? Certainly not the PRC.

<comment><USER36> I do not know what you mean exactly. Of course in China individual liberties are restricted, but at the same time government power is not unlimited and do not reach every corners of society. In many ways, the streets feel like a free market place: you can bargain prices, people sell what they want and there is a lot of exchange taking place that you would probably never seen in the US or Europe.

Therefore I mean "Freedom" in that sense. I am not talking about Freedom on paper/in terms of rights. How much you feel free and how much you really are, are very different things.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Disclaimer: I am CS engineer and have been working in China for the past 7 years (always in tech).

I am not sure that representing China/Asia as the next Eldorado for Westerners is that smart; yes it can be a land of opportunities, but I fail to see the real future you would have in "teaching English" in Beijing, Shanghai or anywhere else down here. It is a precarious position (schools are notorious for screwing around with visa, salary and basically anything you should be entitled to), competition is fierce (many disillusioned foreigners who could not find a job and settle for it), with a steady input of fresh candidates.

Now, if you are indeed an English teacher and are trying to build a career abroad, why not? If you are a history graduate settling for an easy to land position, well... One of the commenters (stupandaus) mentioned that Chinese locals usually refer to them as "Losers Back Home"; foreigners do too.

I think however that the excitement of the poster is genuine; China does indeed exhale that energy that you may find hard to find in Western countries (especially Europe). It is a very challenging environment, one that does not necessarily care much if you fail or succeed, but it can be very rewarding if you are up to the task; you can be put very quickly in front of responsibilities and opportunities that would demand a fair amount of experience, connection and luck in the Western world. However, you are still expected to work your ass off if you want to build a serious/successful career, maybe even more fiercely in some aspects than in Northern America or Europe.

</comment><comment><USER38> He's been there a year and can put in print that this is the 'best decision of his life' ? Seems a bit premature, doesn't it?

</comment><comment><USER39> > The effects of the Great Recession of 2008 may be felt in the United States > for years, but they barely scratched China.

It barely scratched China in metropolitan areas, maybe, but certainly had a large effect in manufacturing hubs like GuangZhou (see documentaries like "The Last Train Home").

As an aside: my parents recently made this move after seeing their two sons live in Taiwan on Rotary Exchange (mid-50s, caucasian, from a podunk town in upstate New York) and are having the time of their lives, but the wealth disparity in mainland China is certainly stunning if not somewhat depressing.

</comment><comment><USER40> Yeah, as with many of the commenters here, I'm not convinced about this article (I live in HK)

As for this masterpiece of bad science: _"For my money, CCTV News English, a channel offered by China's major state television broadcaster, is more fair and balanced than Fox News."_

I put it to you. Can you think of any major news channel _less_ fair and balanced than Fox News?

It's a non-starter for a comparison, unless he's trying to make the (mostly valid) point that American news is a complete joke.

</comment><comment><USER41> Not making minimum wage in the US? Come make less in China!

<comment><USER42> The market rate for (caucasian)private school English teachers in urban China is between 100-150 yuan/hour ($15.80-$23.75). The cost of living is higher than you would imagine, but you can live quite inexpensively once you get used to the city.

That being said, I do not personally find such teaching jobs enjoyable. And the author, it seems, is not well acquainted with the drawbacks (or advantages) of living in China. (Read Peter Hessler for an accurate account.)

<comment><USER41> State schools pay maybe 7000 RMB per month for 20 hours of classroom teaching per week. Private schools double that for nearly double the workload.

I'd guess most teachers are probably pulling 15k USD per year between their main job and a couple of tutoring or corporate gigs on the side. It's better money than sitting in the basement, but it helps to keep things in perspective: a minimum wage job in California makes close to 24k these days and you can drink the milk.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Valid suggestion, but I don't think a move makes up for the perceived inadequacies in the States. Bugs, after all, are to be fixed, not circumvented.

</comment><comment><USER44> excellent, i went east back in 2006 (japan, then china), it has been one of the best decisions of my life, living in shanghai now. i work in software development and the market and talent is red hot!

i disagree with the author in regards to the food scandals, this is a really crappy part of society here and i can't think of any scandal against citizens worse in modern day history.

</comment><comment><USER45> And teaching English is not a dead end job?

</comment><comment><USER46> Chinese people often refer to those like the author as "Losers Back Home." It is exceedingly common to run into Westerners who couldn't hack it in the West that think they are minor gods in Asia because of their native English speaking ability and sudden attractiveness to large throngs of females.

The success

</comment><comment><USER47> Well I suppose thats one way to lower our unemployment rate here in the US

</comment><comment><USER48> This may actually be one of the worst times to move to China if you're looking for a fresh start. They've been on a lending binge that's created a massive fixed asset bubble (mainly real estate), and it looks like the correction has recently begun. It's a lot like what happened in the U.S. and Dubai, although on a much larger scale and without the fancy derivatives (at least not yet).

Local governments have actually been _forcing_ developers to borrow more money and buy land from them because they depend on those sales to meet their financial obligations. Real estate agents are offering luxury cars and bars of gold when you purchase an apartment, not to mention buy one get one free deals (the gold and luxury cars allow them to mask declines in the prices of apartments because list prices are still high).

I would stay far, far away... at least for the next 6-12 months so we can see how hard the landing will be. A lot of wealth is potentially going up in smoke and that could wreak havoc on their domestic demand, which is what they were planning to rely on in order to continue their rapid GDP growth (which we now know has been largely artificial).

<comment><USER27> Citations for any of your claims/assertions? Sounds like FUD to me. Some specifics on the following:

> Local governments have actually been forcing developers to borrow more money > and buy land from them

> Real estate agents are offering luxury cars and bars of gold when you > purchase an apartment

> GDP growth (which we now know has been largely artificial).

<comment><USER48> I wish it weren't true, since any economic collapse has global implications, but they've dug themselves into a serious hole and haven't made any drastic moves to pull themselves out.

Numerous sources (and much better explanations of China's precarious financial situation) are in this post [http://chovanec.wordpress.com/2011/12/24/china- data-part-1a-...](http://chovanec.wordpress.com/2011/12/24/china-data- part-1a-more-on-property-downturn/) It's a blog by an American economist who teaches at Tsinghua University, the top ranking school in China.

This sort of news is particularly distressing to hear as the bubble is only beginning to burst: _"A source at a state-owned property firm in one provincial capital told Caixin that local agencies don't have enough money to cover basic healthcare costs or pay teachers._ " <http://english.caixin.com/2011-12-19/100339928.html>

<comment><USER23> rkon is basically right. My landlord isn't selling his apartment because the prices are too high and so no one is buying, WTF? The real estate market here is incredibly bizarre and opaque.

Its not entirely clear how China will dig itself out of its current situation. On the one hand, perhaps they can grow out of these problems, but their are severe structural problems that need to be reformed sooner or later. A crash would bring those changes but it would be painful for all of us.

I naively have most of my savings in a Chinese bank. This year I'm thinking about diversifying since a banking collapse is always possible and its not clear how we would be insurancd.

<comment><USER49> So, your landlord is waiting for the market to crash rather than find someone to buy the place and still walk away with a possibly decent profit? Or did he purchase the home at an inflated price to begin with?

<comment><USER50> It's been hard in China. The realestate prices are heavily inflated and nobody wants to buy at the moment. Prices are already dropping. Selling is really hard.

When you bought a property in the last few years, selling it now means taking a loss.

<comment><USER23> It's not just that. The real estate companies collude to keep prices high, and won't let landlords consider lowering their prices (they won't market the house, and you can't really market it yourself for some reason). A lot of craziness in this sector, something has to give.

<comment><USER51> Scary stuff. Where are you based? How is life in China comparing to the Republic?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I am glad Jonathan enjoys seeing and living in another place and it has always been a dream of mine to live/study/work in Asia but one question: is it not a HUGE trade-off to move to a place where the ONLY thing you can actually do is teach English and English culture? Because for all the other jobs, they will rather take a local and for any leading positions they will definitely not take you and unless you actually have money to invest, they could not care less about you.

Considering how I am European, it would also mean a HUGE trade-off in social security and insurance, health care and other things.</comment>


Art Installation needed for Ticketmaster UK - <AUTHOR> http://www.conceptcupboard.com/projects/project/public/?project_id=354

<comment><USER2> 1k? Really? That's like 2 booking fees.</comment>


Build APKs on Android devices with Termux - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/BuildAPKs/buildAPKs <comment><USER2> Tired: Distribute on Google Play

Wired: Distribute on F-Droid

Enlightened: make && make install

</comment><comment><USER3> Termux is amazing. I have coded up Python and Go basic web services to test it out. Then opened localhost and they work. Heck I did it with Emacs and a bluetooth keyboard.

<comment><USER4> The downcheck for my old eyes was the tiny font.

<comment><USER5> you can zoom in / out with pinch like other apps

You can fit 5 fairly large-font lines or 4 huge-font lines with the phone sideways (for the big keyboard).

I like hackin' on it with a bluetooth keyboard so the whole phone display is my terminal -- if I could just find my ideal folding keyboard, or perhaps one of those recent sliding-keyboard revival phones

<comment><USER6> I like the iClever Wireless Folding Keyboard - mini version. It's tiny and easy to carry with a phone. You need to be a little more careful with where some keys are.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Not applicable for general Android programming, but I had lots of fun with LÖVE for Android. It's a port of 2D gaming library for Lua language. The API is really well designed and simple to remember.

The app can can open and interpret source files (and fonts, sprites, sounds...) from internal memory. You could build everything from scratch on the phone without PC. Text editing is a pain, so I used it mainly to tweak constants and fix bugs.

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.love2d.and...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.love2d.android)

<comment><USER8> Re: text editing is a pain on mobile

I've briefly been without a usable computer (but with several usable phones) a couple times recently, and attempted to use Android or iOS for development. The result was that I learned to do everything on the command line, and I learned to use vim. Thankfully I have a working computer again, but I doubt if I ever would have put in the effort to learn things the hard (but better) way otherwise.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I wish ish could make ipks.

Heh I wish there was any decent way to make ipks without _buying a Macintosh._

</comment><comment><USER10> Note that this has actually been used by people developing Android and web apps on Chromebook. See for example

[https://dev.to/petermbenjamin/a-minimal-chromebook-setup- for...](https://dev.to/petermbenjamin/a-minimal-chromebook-setup-for- development--hacking-5292)

(Nowadays chromeos has native support for it)

</comment><comment><USER11> With termux I could run some useful commands in linux without need to open my laptop

</comment><comment><USER12> Enjoy it while it lasts, folks. Google policies forbid running of binaries that did not come from the original app APK or a Google Play download, and these are enforced with SELinux policies. I think recent Termux releases get around this with ptrace-based chicanery, but Google can and probably will plug that hole in a later release.

<comment><USER13> Honestly that doesn't sound like a terrible idea. It sucks for the tiny minority of people doing development on their phones but let's face it, most apps running binaries from the Internet really shouldn't. The only reason a "normal" app would do this is to work around the AV scanning that Google does.

I don't think Google should add permissions or warnings for this either as that doesn't help because people are clicking through warnings already.

Too bad termux will fall victim to this. Hopefully some of the Magisk / Xposed folk will find a workaround that will allow specific apps to execute binaries again so that Termux will work for those that rely on it.

<comment><USER14> > I don't think Google should add permissions or warnings for this either

When I buy a phone, it's _my_ phone. Not Google's, not Apple's, not anyone else's: it's _mine_. And I have a fundamental human right to run any software on _my_ property that I wish.

It's one thing for Google to impose limitations on what apps available from the Play Store may do: I may always sideload anything I wish. But to impose limitations on what sideloaded apps may do is unconscionable.

Freedom _matters_.

<comment><USER12> To paraphrase another hackernews: Freedom is nice, but it comes with tradeoffs that for whatever reason buyers aren't willing to make right now.

A restricted platform provides security guarantees that total freedom _cannot_ provide, No matter what kind of magic incantation the OS vendor hides the "I know what I'm doing, let me run what I want on my own device" mode behind, some normie end-user schlub is going to find it on the internet as part of a malware author's instructions to download pirated video or games and get infected. Multiply that by a few thousand or million and that's a big black eye for Android the platform. That's a chunk of total Android devices infected with malware that iOS just doesn't have. Why? Because Apple did the smart thing and locked everything down from the beginning.

So yes, for Android the openness genie is going back into the bottle. Get used to it. In the current environment of billions of always-on, always-networked devices, we can't afford to let them all run arbitrary code. You are free to purchase a phone whose vendor respects your freedom, but those are niche items and likely to get rarer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Cross-compilation has been a nightmare since the beginning.

</comment><comment><USER15> Termux does not support old versions of Android, which I don't understand, because at the end, it's about sending an armv7 binary in the processor.

</comment><comment><USER16> Countdown for AUR for Android?

</comment><comment><USER17> Inception ;)

</comment><comment><USER18> *Android</comment>


Visa's CEO just threatened to go after PayPal - <AUTHOR> http://www.recode.net/2016/5/25/11768854/visa-ceo-paypal-threat <comment><USER2> so all the paypal buttons point to a screen where you apply for credit for your purchase with a new mastercard, amex or discover.</comment>


What do you think about our onboarding experience? - <AUTHOR> Hi, We are a social network for active and aspiring traders and investors. We recently revamped our onboarding process to make it more simple and informative, but it's not quite there yet: many new users are not using our features correctly ($ ticker sign for stocks, bull/bear signal to signify sentiment...) and we feel the reason may well be that the onboarding may still be too complex.. Also, we are struggling to get people to invite their friends, one of the steps of the on boarding experience... Somehow it's not incentivizing enough.. Could you please take a look and let us know what you think about it? Is it simple enough, well explained, and does it have enough personality? Is there too many/not enough steps? How could we make it better? Thank you so much for your help! Here is the link: https://beta.investfeed.com <comment><USER2> Have you asked your users? What have they said?

<comment><AUTHOR> We've actually incorporated some of their comments (provide more detail, focus on monetization features...) into the new version of the on boarding.

Yet it feels very long and new members don't seem to grasp the other 'basic' features (ticker symbol for stocks, sentiment tracking, etc...).

We're seriously considering revamping it again to try to simplify steps further and make the process more interactive... What is your experience there and how could we optimise our current onboarding?</comment></comment>


Manhandled - <AUTHOR> http://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2016/01/15/Manhandled.html <comment><USER2> Devils advocate: What is so dramatic about refusing someone? If it is unwanted, can one not merely be distinct about the denial?

If someone is wasting your time, then they're wasting your time. Then walk away. But if they are not wasting your time, then it turns out they are feeling a sexual way where you are not, then what is there to say about this? That is it, it's over. So, is it really a plague like this article suggests, or a font of opportunities that actually aren't afforded to men, but exist for a woman to or NOT TO take advantage of?

Is it impossible to conceive of any advances as a complement, or are they patently lacking all merit what-so-ever and are completely despicable?

<comment><USER3> There's a lot to be said about the vagaries of workplace romance - but don't just fucking grope your coworkers!

<comment><USER2> But conference goers are not co workers.</comment></comment></comment>


A prisoner developed a software to manage the jail staff - <AUTHOR> http://beingindian.com/news/gurgaon-prisoner-techie/ <comment><USER2> In 2014 he also had written a 368-page novel 'Four Friends'.

He says he had little knowledge in software development. So he taught himself more than 12 hours initially.

I wonder what made him to be so focused and creative, given that he is convicted for life.

I find hard to settle for more than 4 hours.

</comment><comment><USER3> Cool! I think it's great that he has access to computers and is able to better himself and others even while he's in prison.

Besides the benefits of doing something productive, I wonder if it also provided him with additional comforts in prison?</comment>


Ask HN: Anyone interested in building a open-source non-profit Uber competitor? - <AUTHOR> I read the following NYTimes article about how Uber drivers don't make all that much money, and wondered if their lives could be improved even slightly if there existed a Uber competitor that charged minimal commissions by being non-profit and relying on open source development. If nothing else, it would put a little more pressure on Uber/Lyft to treat their drivers better.
Needless to say, there is no potential for riches. This would be a labor of love.
Would anyone be interested in working on this?
https://nyti.ms/2VKYROJ <comment><USER2> Uber makes 25% on paper and about 39% in practice off the rides they book. That's a lot more than I expected.

Both Uber and Lyft are sinking a lot of that into driverless cars, and of course they're both burning through funds like a drunken binge. You can't compete with free, but free can't compete with negative. When the sun comes up from the rager and the market realizes the big 2 are cash pits instead of cash machines, it'd be nice to be in a position to take over for them.

But until then, you have to be heard over the din. That means you can't give the drivers the full difference, or too few passengers will use your service. Maybe splitting the difference, so instead of a $40 fare going $16 to Uber and $24 to the driver, make it a $32 fare going $30 to the driver and $2 to run overhead (servers, financial overhead).

I could see this being a philosophical dealbreaker, as some people would want the drivers to eat the Uberless overhead to bring cheaper fares (defeats the point for the drivers), and others would want the drivers to keep the Uberless overhead (defeats the point for the passengers).

Requiring drivers to send copies of their Uber and/or Lyft certifications would offload that cost of entry to the competition. That'd work great until Uber or Lyft kicks them off for good reason.

As long as the math makes sense, ping me and I'm game for helping out.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm interested in building commission free marketplaces. Some of the advantages that a system like this can have is

\- You can completely get rid of centralized international payment processing and distribution.

\- Countries where cellular networks have good coverage (i.e. most of the regions where marketplaces operate today) already have highly efficient payment networks that can be set up by any individual or a business. All we need to do is educate them how.

I don't think building a technology infrastructure would be the right way to solve this problem. Effort should instead be spent in educating how the existing infrastructure can be used by individuals to their advantage.

The goal of marketplace operator should be to ensure that all the operations are run smoothly. How customer grievances are to be addressed? How the legal regulations are to be followed? How the service is going to be provided? How the compensation is going to be received? In other words the marketplaces should take away the administrative burden of the participants.

Think virtual assistants.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is a cool idea and would be worthwhile but I'm sure there are significant (non software related) logistical issues that won't be solved by FOSS. Handling driver-rider disputes and general safety concerns, for instance. Part of what makes Uber viable is they own a certain degree of liability in the customer experience, even if it comes at the expense of drivers.

<comment><USER5> What if the app and site are open source, but each city a private company or companies use the oss to create their own service. Then you have a decentralised system and the businesses add value by dealing with disputes and payment processing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Contact RideAustin perhaps; they're not open source yet, but they were considering it. I'd love for more cities to build services like that.

(Unfortunately, when we tried to use RideAustin on a recent visit, it didn't work... but they've had millions in revenue so I think we were just unlucky)

[http://www.rideaustin.com/](http://www.rideaustin.com/)

</comment><comment><USER7> Will this be something like libretaxi?

[http://libretaxi.org/](http://libretaxi.org/) [https://github.com/ro31337/libretaxi](https://github.com/ro31337/libretaxi)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the link. I'm glad to see others working on this. I don't really like their cash/Bitcoin only strategy. Similarly for haggling for your fare. I think these two factors might be deal breakers for most users and drivers. I'll look more into their app though.

<comment><USER8> Austin has a nonprofit rideshare app formed after Uber and Lyft pulled out for regulator-related reasons which more closely clones their business model [http://www.rideaustin.com/](http://www.rideaustin.com/)

I think the reality is such a project is less about the app and more about mobilising the drivers to join and sorting out various hurdles so they can safely and legally operate in a jurisdiction, especially if you're also taking payments on their behalf (that'll be the reason libretaxi uses cash). Doing that paperwork is a lot of man hours for somebody...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Sounds good on paper, so I might be interested. Need some details though, specifically, who else will be participating, as working with a good team is significant part of the fun.

<comment><AUTHOR> Nice to hear, I can certainly send you more details over email. I don't see an email address listed on your profile though - you can find my email address in my public profile.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I think such a software is inevitable. Bitcoin has already solved most of the problems that would be faced.

<comment><USER11> Bitcoin is to unstable in day hour to hour price levels. Example Bitcoin is 5000 usd at 9 am and 5026 at 10 am so I pay 9 am price to go to work via uber and my partner pays 10 am price to go to work ??? Will never work until stability is something we can count on. going home you don't want to hear that one.</comment></comment>


IoT won't be a source of revenue for telcos - <AUTHOR> http://www.zdnet.com/article/iot-wont-be-a-source-of-revenue-for-telcos-new-street-research/ <comment><USER2> It's almost impossible to imagine anything getting an ARPU greater than cellular phones already do. Maybe you could make one car payment for your car and another for communication services for your car, but that's just about it.

There is a limited amount of money that most people can spend on their phone bill before it cuts into spending for housing, food, health care, college, etc.</comment>