The Renaissance Man: How to Become a Scientist Over and Over Again - <AUTHOR> http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=the-renaissance-man-how-to-become-a-2011-06-08 <comment><USER2> I wonder if Aiden's Hi-C method can be refined to determine the exact three dimensional structure of chromatin. Each cell type must have a unique chromatin structure and detailed maps would tell us which genes are switched on in different cells.</comment>


Engineers as Heroes - <AUTHOR> http://refer.ly/engineers_as_heroes/c/2f05ba284d5d11e2b5ab22000a1db8fa

<comment><USER2> It should have Iron Man. Maybe also A Beautiful Mind.

Closer to home, if we're doing documentaries, Revolution OS maybe ought to be there.

<comment><USER3> Feature idea: make it so other people can add stuff to collections and then the article's owner can moderate it in or out. Would you use that?

<comment><USER4> I'd use that. It would also be nice to be able to suggest better versions of products to replace the products in some people's lists.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> You could make a case for putting Star Trek on that list. How often were Scotty and Geordi, chief engineers, literally heroes on those shows?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah how did I miss that one! Just put a solid Geordi centric episode up there. Him and Data are my favorite STNG characters.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Should definitely add Primer to the list. I've never seen another movie that uses scientific language that is not dumbed down -at all- for the audience.

<comment><AUTHOR> I love the first half of the movie, because it shows a lot of what a real startup is like. It's incredible how they did the overlapping dialog to show the fast pace of thought. Adding it right now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I feel uneasy about this - pushing affiliate links to HN? Oh well, if the crowd likes it, you win :-(

<comment><USER3> This comes up every time we post a collection from Referly to HN, regardless of it being very relevant to the community here. I think it bears pointing out that every content site makes money from getting traffic on HN - for us we make money if people purchase products but don't have any ads. For Techcrunch, CNET etc. they primarily make money from ads. Furthermore, most writers don't ever see the proceeds of these ads (they do far better as full time writers). In our case we pass through revenue to our contributors directly (in this case Kevin is a cofounder of Referly so his earnings go to the company).

If the argument is that the content is somehow altered because of affiliate links, to guarantee some better payout or something - pretty much ANY movie is covered by affiliate programs these days and payouts are all about the same (even on the front page this article only stands to make ~$10 in commissions). As always, the content has to stand on its own, and we hope that Referly could be a new format for product/list blogging.

<comment><USER7> Lists are discouraged on HN anyway, iirc. That list just didn't seem so impressive to me, so I suspected it was less made out of passion and more out of "let's see if we can get on HN for fun and profit".

Anyway, as I said, if the crowd votes it up, you win. My complaining is irrelevant.

<comment><USER3> Haha okay, I told him he needs to make the list better

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Flight of the Phoenix (1965) - The heroic engineer is a German model airplane designer who rebuilds a crashed air freighter.

Threshold (1981) - Jeff Goldblum plays a biomedical engineer who designs and builds the world's first self-contained artificial heart.

Buckaroo Banzai (1984) - A stretch, I think, but BB and the Hong Kong Cavaliers are all techies to one degree or another.

Real Genius (1985) - The heros are physics and CS majors, but that's close enough.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you sooo much for recommending Flight of the Phoenix. I just watched it last night, and it's one of my new all time favorites.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Minecraft: The Story of Mojang[1], just released this morning, is really good. It looks at Markus' original idea, the expansion of the company, the small team environment working on something huge, and lots of the other areas that the game has infiltrated in the past 3.5 years.

If you're including The Indie Game Movie, I'd say it's as least as qualified.

[1]: <http://redux.com/minecraft-movie>

</comment><comment><USER10> Steve Jobs was a great salesman. I've never encountered any record that said he was a great programmer, let alone a shitty one.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's evident from the interview he actually did program, granted no where near as well as Wozniak. I think he easily makes it on the list as a leader of engineering organizations.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Pirates of the silicon valley, a must add..

</comment><comment><USER12> The fact that you recognized 21 is a win in itself! One of my favorites!

</comment><comment><USER13> Batman movies would be great for this list - he's one of the few superheroes that doesn't claim to have any actual super powers, but rather derives his power from kickass, well-engineered gear.

<comment><USER14> He derives his power from engineered gear, but he himself isn't an Engineer.

Also, the batmobile is rather poorly designed. With its underbody being so flat against the ground, it is incredibly vulnerable to IEDs, to say nothing of a stray bit of rubble.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I don't know much about the comic, but at least in the latest Christopher Nolan movies the engineering is all behind the scenes by Morgan Freeman's secret division. No slight to the series, just saying.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> If you are including fictional engineers, I'd suggest Hiccup from the "How to Train Your Dragon" movie. It was basically through his engineering skill that he captured Toothless. It was also engineering to provide Toothless with a prosthetic tail and figure out how to fly with him. Learning how to train dragons was a mix of science and engineering. He's continued demonstrating an engineering and scientific approach to problems in the "Gift of the Night Fury" short and several of the "Riders of Berk" cartoons.

</comment><comment><USER16> I.Q. is a nice one <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110099/>

Although not sure if it qualifies as "Engineers as Heroes".

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Some context on this: I found myself really loving movies that were able to tastefully dramatize engineers and the work they do. There are precious few movies that do this. Let me know if I missed any good ones.

Hopefully it will be some inspirational fuel going into the New Year.

<comment><USER4> While Contact may be inspirational, for me, it's also one of the saddest movies I've watched more than once.

<comment><USER3> I agree, I wonder why they decided to end it the way they did.

<comment><USER4> I've never read the book; not sure if that is how it ends.

<comment><USER3> Neither have I, downloaded!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'd add Numb3rs to this list.

<comment><AUTHOR> I just added it to the list. Perfect timing, because I need a new TV series to get addicted to now Dexter and Homeland are over for the season.

<comment><USER18> Numb3rs fits with the genre of the list, but it's kind of meh as a show. If you're looking for something to watch that's actually good, try The Newsroom. I think the entire first season is available on HBO on demand.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Wonder how the obvious qualifier, Social Network misses the list.

<comment><USER3> Mark Zuckerberg is a badass, but I hardly think that movie portrays him as a hero

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The Aviator?</comment>


Microsoft's New Terms of Service to Block Class Action Suits - <AUTHOR> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404937,00.asp

<comment><USER2> I have a question. Why is giving up your right to sue even legal? It should (almost) be a human right (or at-least an 'absolute' legal right) simply because giving up a right to sue seems like it opens up companies to do whatever they want without worry of consumer recourse.</comment>


Show HN: Exoplanets Data Visualisation Using D3.js - <AUTHOR> https://exoplanetexplore.now.sh/ <comment><USER2> Very cool, great job! One bit of feedback: hover interaction doesn't make sense on mobile. Can tap to trigger hover as a workaround and use media queries to change instructions instead of telling user to hover.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes! I didn't have mobile support in my mind when I started the development. But in the future I'll change those hover interactions and optimize for mobile. Thanks for the feedback :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> If only it didn't require tons of third-party sites to function.

</comment><comment><USER4> interesting pattern when you zoom out - most of planet density is concentrated in a sorta 2pm clock direction (or around 45deg clockwise). Wonder why...does that coincide with the direction the Kelper telescope is looking at mainly?

<comment><USER5> I think that's right, yes. TESS is currently doing a full-sky survey. Exciting times!

1\. [https://tess.mit.edu/observations/](https://tess.mit.edu/observations/) 2\. [https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/tess/primary- science.html](https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/tess/primary-science.html) \-- illustration of sky coverage difference</comment></comment>


Dutch King Willem-Alexander declares the end of the welfare state - <AUTHOR> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-king-willemalexander-declares-the-end-of-the-welfare-state-8822421.html

<comment><USER2> Although he did state this in his address, the address itself is ceremonial. This was part of the Dutch "state of the union" speech (Troonrede), which is written by the current seated government, and serves to introduce next year's budget.

It was not well received, as the set of policies introduced made it fiscally unattractive to have your parents live-in with you to better care for them (their pension would be reduced), and they made no effort to loosen the restrictions on volunteer work either.

</comment><comment><USER3> "Youngest monarch in Europe says people must take responsibility for their own future and create their own social and financial safety nets"

Oh, the irony of it all ...</comment>


Show HN: Aleph Zero – Infinite Food for Thought - <AUTHOR> http://alephz.com/askh

<comment><USER2> 'You email'?</comment>


VimR – Refined Vim Experience for OS X - <AUTHOR> http://vimr.org/ <comment><USER2> For those confused, this project uses a fork of macvim that the author himself turned into a framework(osx library) to be used in third party programs. [1]

(Kinda how some linux projects used xembed to embed gvim into their apps, eclim also used to have a mode to embed gvim into eclipse)

Think of it as a proof of concept implementation for a vim editor based on the macvim framework version. At worst, you don't really give a crap. At best you can use this in your own editor/ide/debugger/whatever.

The wording not emulated as mentioned in a post below is in reference to vi emulation in eclipse/idea/sublime/atom/xvim or one of the other 1000 editors that have vi keybindings.

Ps. I'm not affiliated in any way, I still use tmux and console vim, but I've been following this project for a while.

[1] [https://github.com/qvacua/macvim](https://github.com/qvacua/macvim)

<comment><USER3> Thank you. I was really wondering what is so special about a GUI vim. I thought that exited for a while.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I love the idea. I use terminal Vim as my daily editor, and could see myself switching (at least part-time) to something like this.

Yes, you can achieve all this using plugins like NERDTree and Ctrl-p, but sometimes a polished GUI just provides a better experience than any ncurses- based interface can. And you're not giving anything up in the process—you can still open NERDTree from VimR if you want to.

Hope the negativity here isn't discouraging. I'm really excited to see where this project goes.

</comment><comment><USER5> As an avid MacVim user, I'm really interested in people pushing the graphical vim experience on Mac OS X.

I find it interesting that you included a fuzzy quick-open. One of the pain points with CtrlP in a large project - even with fast hardware - is the synchronous building of its filesystem cache. I would be interested in trying another implementation that lives inside of an app (where it can be dispatched asynchronously).

All in all, a nice looking app! I'm interested in giving it a shot!

<comment><USER6> Ctrl-p is great but I agree, lack of caching is a signigicant pain point. I raised an issue on that and the author explained it's because there's actually no mechanism for Vimscript to do it, so someone would probably need to come up with some way to spawn headless Vim from a periodic Cronjob. A standalone app like VimR can also route around this constraint.

[https://github.com/kien/ctrlp.vim/issues/222](https://github.com/kien/ctrlp.vim/issues/222)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Wow, 1 hour and not one positive comment. I love this. For an user getting started with vim, just the mac-like design for sidebar and File finder is a million times useful.

Thanks Guys for making this!

</comment><comment><USER8> Damn, I'm sorry there have been so many haters here. Looks like a really cool project and you should totally keep working on it to make it even more appealing over something like MacVim. Excellent job guys!

</comment><comment><USER9> I love the negativity in many of the responses here. Obviously people like native apps. Macvim is a thing. Emacs has a gui version for os x. Sublime is a thing. This is a polished port of macvim that has a file drawer, which is a feature that many people want baked into macvim. Browsing complex file hierarchies and large projects isn't great inside a terminal, and is a giant hurdle for many new users of vim.

If this isn't for you then fine but don't rush here to proudly proclaim how you don't understand the point of this. I don't know why anyone submits their pet projects here.

<comment><USER10> Hope you don't mind poolpool but I quoted you in a quick writeup I made of VimR.

[http://tosbourn.com/vimr-first-look/](http://tosbourn.com/vimr-first-look/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This looks very promising. I use MacVim daily and being able to extend the GUI (like the markdown plugin) sounds awesome.

I already see tons of possible plugin. A simple one would be to have a webkit window which reloads the page when working on a web project, with javascript bindings on the webkit window there is a lot of potential.

Or an OpenGL shader preview for real time GLSL editing.

Could also be simply a documentation browser.

There are many tools I'd like to integrate more with my editor.

To all the haters, use your imagination, it's much more than just vim in the terminal. And I'm well aware that I can have a gazillion window open (web browser, doc browser, shader preview, game window...), but this kind of integration can improve productivity and reduce frustrations.

</comment><comment><USER12> Looks pretty neat. Good work folks. I wrote a blog post sometime back to setup macvim that looks exactly same as your projects. Good thing is that I don't have to do all that hard work to set it up and just use yours instead. :) Here is that blog post. [http://vinitkumar.me/articles/2014/01/03/Setup-Macvim-for- ma...](http://vinitkumar.me/articles/2014/01/03/Setup-Macvim-for-maximum- awesomeness/)

</comment><comment><USER13> Sorry, is the vim that ships with OS X consider emulated?

<comment><USER14> I think that was a reference to MacVim, maybe?

<comment><USER15> This project uses the MacvimFramework. It might be a dig at Sublime/Atom's re- implementation of Vim keybindings

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> As a MacVim user, I find this intriguing. It seems to work very well for my needs. I particularly like the built-in Markdown preview.

My only gripe so far is that I'd like to be able to configure additional filtering for the fuzzy file find to, for example, make it automatically ignore node_modules folders.

<comment><USER17> Thanks. The "ignore list" for the fuzzy find will be implemented soooon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Hey, there are some great things in here. I've used it for a bit this morning, and have a couple of comments:

1\. I could not figure out how to change the font. I'd love a smaller font.

2\. The "show" and "hide" side bar shortcuts should be merged into a single "toggle" shortcut

3\. Generally, shortcuts should be more vim-y. If I wanted to do cmd + } I would be using emacs :)

4\. could not find a keyboard shortcut to change focus from the editor to the sidebar, so I have to use my mouse there (bad).

5\. Quick open does not have vim-like navigation. So I need to use the arrows to select a file in the list. Also, is there a way to set an ignore list? (e.g. ignore all the object files).

6\. Long term, it would be amazing if gui actions could be tied to keyboard shortcuts via the vimrc.

<comment><USER19> Thanks for the feedback! ⌘1 is what you want to focus the sidebar, and <Esc> will take you back to your buffer. We're working on some improvements to the View menu.

<comment><USER18> That works! Thanks! Looking forward to the next round of improvements.

<comment><USER17> We will soon document all key shortcuts in the wiki on GitHub.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I am missing a "Why should I use this instead of MacVim?" section on that website.

<comment><USER17> I tried to explain it in: * [http://ishouldcocoa.net/post/85242609106/why- vimr](http://ishouldcocoa.net/post/85242609106/why-vimr) * [http://ishouldcocoa.net/post/91765853571/some-thoughts-on- vi...](http://ishouldcocoa.net/post/91765853571/some-thoughts-on-vimr)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Thank you for your comments. Please bear in mind that VimR is still very much work in progress: it's got still rough edges here and there. With your comments and feedback we will try to polish it and add new features. Stay tuned. :)

<comment><USER21> Okay, here's some feedback: you mention that you're using "real" vim, yet refer to the file browser controls as that "hjkl" thing. No app that isn't vim or isn't trying to partially resemble vim has used that obsolete "uh, down means up, so left means down" hjkl arrowkey arrangement for decades. Everyone else, all apps, spreadsheets, games, other text editors, including all standard hardware, uses an inverted-T arrangement for arrowkeys.

So, no problem, vim lets you remap your keys, which takes care of the problem. Many of us remap the "arrowkeys on the home row" to the standard inverted-T of ijkl (and remap i, for insert left, to h, reach left instead of reaching up), so that both sets of arrowkeys on the keyboard match each other and match their arrangement in every other app we use. Those with other keyboards, such as Dvorak, will often map to different keys that make more sense on their own keyboards. The ability to do so has always been one of the features of "real vi(m)".

I hope that for your file browser, you'll pass the keypresses through the (g)vimrc map, so that whatever keys a user has chosen for up, down, left, right, escape, and whatever else the file browser handles, will work the same way in both the editor and the file browser, which is to say, the way their "real vim" works.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Does anybody know how to really close a tab in vim? When I type t on a file to open it in a tab and then type :q, it looks like ist closed. But when I type :ls I see that its still open.

<comment><USER23> When you write `:ls` you see all the buffers, not tabs. To remove the buffer you can use `:bd :bdel :bdelete` (see `:help :bdel`) which unloads a buffer and deletes it from the bugger list.

<comment><USER22> Sure. But I want to close the buffer AND the tab. :bd only closes the tab if there are multiple tabs open. It does not close the tab when its the last tab before the file explorer:

1) in the shell run "vim ."

2) hit "t" on a file

3) type ":bd<enter>"

You still have 2 tabs open. One with the file explorer and one with an empty file. Probably because the file explorer has type "nofile" or something, so vim things the buffer you just closed was the last one. Im not sure why its not closing the tab. It might be a bug.

Is there a way to tell vim "When I type :bd close the frickin tab, even if its the last one!"?

<comment><USER24> Yes, see my other answer here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8187723](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8187723)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This is great! I like the fact that there is a gui with menu bar commands, ability to navigate folders , etc. to fall back on. Is there any way to open it via the terminal like sublime or atom? It would be great if it could launch from a directory with all of the contents showing in the sidebar

</comment><comment><USER26> Installed MacVim the other day, first thing I run into "MacVim.app doesn't show up in spotlight" ([https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/issues/8970](https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/issues/8970))

</comment><comment><USER27> On one hand, I really want to leave a constructive comment, but on the other, I don't think that I should use it first for a few days (and judging by my first impressions, coming from macvim, I definitely will). By the way, did all the haters test it thoroughly?

</comment><comment><USER28> Doesn't work for me on either macbook or imac, running mavericks.

<comment><USER29> Same here. Trying to create a new file or open an existing one results in a crash.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I love this idea! I've wanted to get into MacVIM but I am just too addicted to the file browser sidebar that Sublime and Atom have. I'll have to give this a shot.

<comment><USER31> Checkout nerdtree. File browser/sidebar for Vim.

[https://github.com/scrooloose/nerdtree](https://github.com/scrooloose/nerdtree)

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> What other keyboard shortcuts are available other than hjkl? It looks not even the arrow keys work.

<comment><USER19> There are quite a few, and they're documented on the wiki[1].

If you find that there's a specific feature missing, please open an issue. All feedback is appreciated :) This is still very much a work in progress.

[1] [https://github.com/qvacua/vimr/wiki/File-Browser- Actions](https://github.com/qvacua/vimr/wiki/File-Browser-Actions)

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> It would be awesome if you could add in some kind of package manager like sublime text has.

<comment><USER34> Wouldn't Vundle work just as well on this? Vundle is pretty decent for installing plugins.

<comment><USER35> Vundle is great, there is Pathogen too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> This is awesome! Going to give it a proper run Monday.

</comment><comment><USER37> Looks great, I'll check it out

</comment><comment><USER38> could be pretty good with more polish

</comment><comment><USER39> Good work!

</comment><comment><USER40> I have low enthusiasm for this project because I don't see a big added-value above NerdTree and CtrlP.

But I would love to see more cross-platform Gui wrappers and more embedded Vim. I'm hopeful that NeoVim will help make this happen.

NeoVim seems to be making really good progress. There are packages for installing on OSX and Linux. In my daily use NeoVim has been solid. I love the direction that NeoVim is taking, and believe it will be a great foundation for embedded vim.

</comment><comment><USER41> Title should be "VimR: Refined Vim Experience for OS X" not "Vim for OS X".

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry. One of my first posts to HN. Updated.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I fail to see how this is better than to use gvim, which is crossplatform, together with NERDTree, CTRL+p + some other language specific plugins that can run on your server, on your desktop (which can be windows, linux or osx, whatever you like).

Feels like the authors effort would be better spent on helping some project like NeoVim instead. [https://github.com/neovim/neovim](https://github.com/neovim/neovim)

<comment><USER43> Did you even use it?

<comment><USER42> I can't ask questions if I haven't used it? I have no interest of trying this out since it's mac exclusive.

<comment><USER43> You didn't ask a question. You suggested that the author's effort was misguided for an application you didn't even use.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> ugh more OSX embrace extend extinguish. Apple doesn't even have to pay people to write more lock in anymore.

</comment><comment><USER45> So, in what way is it better than vim inside tmux? NERDtree and CTRL-p and you're good to go.</comment>


TurboTax's 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free - <AUTHOR> https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free <comment><USER2> I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California.

[https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to- file/online/calfile/inde...](https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to- file/online/calfile/index.asp)

I am pushing so hard to make it better and more useful to more people, like being able to add capital gain that is not currently supported.

these are the push backs that I am getting:

1\. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a ready return. TurboTax and others hired bunch of lobbyist and put so much pressure on people here and killed the project. People are still afraid and don't want to do too much to grab the attention of their lobbyist!

2\. Use of CalFile goes down every year and if trend continues, it would be killed in the near future.

when you have your Federal return it is much easier to pay a little more and file your state tax with it too. No body even knows CalFile exist because we don't have a marketing budget to promote it.

3\. Even people here buy the argument that free software exist and people could file their taxes for free.

<comment><USER3> Can you expand on why people are "afraid" of lobbyists? The way you write that makes it sound like the elected officials the lobbyists are trying to convince, are afraid of those same lobbyists. What I assume you meant is that ground troops like you are afraid lobbyists will notice your work and pay more attention to your given team of elected politicians.

Can you help me understand?

<comment><USER4> My intuition is that the elected officials are wary of choosing positions blatantly opposite of the interests the lobbyists are pushing for since the lobbyists could easily support a different candidate and put a lot of money into supporting them. So if you don't behave in the way the powerful lobbyists want, they'll get you kicked out of office.

<comment><USER5> It is exactly this.

You look at donations to people from corporations or through lobbyists and they don't look that large, $15-20k and they are getting big bills passed.

That $15-20k isn't buying the politician or their vote. The threat to give millions of dollars to the opposing politician that will support them is.

<comment><USER6> There are limits on how much you can donate to a candidate's campaign; however, you can contribute unlimited funds to a PAC, but the PAC's advertisement efforts must be separate from the candidates; they can't be coordinated.

<comment><USER7> Which is perfect for a company like TurboTax who wants to lobby for an issue... they don't care about the candidate, they don't have to coordinate with them at all... they just tell the representative, "if you don't vote my way, we will fund a PAC that will attack you". No candidate coordination, no problem.

<comment><USER6> Conversely, people opposed to TurboTax could get their own lobbyist and do the same thing.

<comment><USER7> As I said in another comment, no one cares about free taxes as much as TurboTax cares about not having free taxes. It is a minor annoyance to every citizen, but it is life or death for TurboTax.

The people who are hurt by not having free taxes certainly can't afford lobbyists, and even if they could... they would have to spend so much more than they pay in tax preparation fees for their whole life to compete with TurboTax money. Who would do that?

<comment><USER6> Collectively, people spend billions annually on TurboTax. They could, instead, all chip in $25 for their own lobbyist, if they cared enough to not spend $100 on TurboTax.

If they can afford TurboTax, they can afford the lobbyist.

<comment><USER7> Couple of problems with that... one, not everyone would chip in. Why would they? If there is a fund paying lobbyists, my $25 is not going to make a huge difference.... they aren't going to win or lose based on my contribution, so why contribute? Your money wont change the outcome, and you will get the benefit even if you don't participate... standard Free Rider problem.

You might say that you should donate out to the fund out of moral principle of a just cause, but there are a million just causes, a million small rent seeking industries that do this sort of thing. Which of them do I donate to fight against? Why income tax and not one of the others?

TurboTax is going to be willing to spend a LOT of money to fight this... you are going to have to get a LOT of people to choose your moral cause, and donate to the PAC.... and then find even more when TurboTax spends even more on lobbying to counteract your PAC. Who is going to give up first?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Just for comparison: in Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform* Java desktop app for filing your taxes.

The UI isn't great* and if you do complex stock trading it can be a pain to add the necessary information, but for the vast majority of people it works just fine.

It also shows if it is better to use the standard deduction or the itemized deductions for your particular case and also calculates your effective tax rate.

In fact, the Java App has for years been the only way to file personal income federal* tax. The paper forms were abolished because (almost) no one used them and they had a large rate of mistakes.

* The Java desktop app runs on Linux, macOS and Windows. (And possibly others) * There is a separate mobile app but I haven't actually used it. * In macOS there was bug in last year's version: it used ctrl instead of command for things like copy and paste. * There is no state income tax in Brazil.

<comment><USER9> Fun fact: the official tax filing application in Germany which has been around for a few decades is called "ELSTER" (apronym for _El_ ektronische _St_ euer _er_ klärung, "Electronic Tax Return") which literally translates to "MAGPIE", as in "thieving magpie" ("Diebische Elster"). This is a form of self-irony which is quite unusual for the German tax offices.

OS portability has greatly improved with their online app [0], which is actually very good and easy to use. Before, the only stable way to run their Desktop application on Linux was through wine.

[0] [https://www.elster.de/eportal/login](https://www.elster.de/eportal/login)

<comment><USER10> Having moved from Sweden to Germany I appreciate Elster existing (and not being solely paper based unlike the other many many German beaurocratic exercises one has to Wade through).

However it misses the most important part. In Sweden your tax declaration comes pre-populated with data they already have, like salary/pension/savings/stock sales/etc., and you can either just accept it as it is or make changes to the already existing data.

It's so easy that you in fact just can send an SMS (that is verified to be from you) to the taxation agency saying that their suggestion is right.

<comment><USER11> In Germany, it's actually similar. You can opt in to include the data submitted for you by various sources and include them in your tax declaration. The only drawback is you need to select each one (salary, basic info, church tax info) to import it into your declaration, and that you need to wait until end of February since that's the deadline for third parties to submit your data.

Also, some things, like capital gains, you don't even need to declare if you used only German brokers, since they are legally required to submit it for you.

<comment><USER12> It's called "Vorausgefüllte Steuererklärung" (see [https://www.elster.de/eportal/infoseite/belegabruf_%28privat...](https://www.elster.de/eportal/infoseite/belegabruf_%28privatpersonen%29)).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I like propublica's reporting on this but geez, this needs an award for one of the top HN obsessions. Within the past 7 months:

TurboTax's 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free; 211 points -- 54 minutes ago

TurboTax to charge more lower-income customers; 144 points -- 3 months ago

Congress Scraps Provision to Restrict IRS from Competing with TurboTax; 82 points -- 4 months ago

Listen to TurboTax Lie to Get Out of Refunding Overcharged Customers; 171 points -- 5 months ago

TurboTax Uses a "Military Discount" to Trick Troops into Paying to File Taxes; 170 points -- 5 months ago

TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat; 355 points -- 6 months ago

TurboTax Hides Its Free File Page from Search Engines; 881 points -- 6 months ago

TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes; 608 points -- 6 months ago

How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013); 462 points -- 7 months ago

edit: if you _still_ haven't gotten enough TurboTax reporting, there's a great Reply All episode that covers propublica's reporting as well [https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply- all/6nhgol](https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/6nhgol)

<comment><USER14> Americans are starting to wake up to the fact they live in what is by far the richest country, but that the systems in place just make the rich richer, while nothing is done to improve the lives of the middle and lower classes.

In this particular case, the rich are actively using the system to stop an improvement to the quality of life of regular people.

What's the point in living in the richest country in the world when your quality of life is lower than many countries that don't have nearly so much money?

<comment><USER15> I would argue that there are few, if any, countries in the world that this description would not apply to.

However, I agree with the point that you're making wholeheartedly. There's a very serious amount of wealth disparity around the world, and the rich have gotten so rich that they can't even feasibly spend all of their money if they had to.

<comment><USER14> You need to spend more time in better countries.

The lives of middle and lower class people in Australia, Canada, Scandinavia, etc. are much, much, much better than Americans, and improving all the time.

<comment><USER16> Do you think so? I live in Toronto and wealth inequality is still constantly at the forefront of political discourse. Obviously Toronto isn't indicative of the rest of Canada, but I don't feel as if poor Canadians are especially better off than poor Americans.

<comment><USER14> They are much, much better off. Just having healthcare makes a huge difference alone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> A few weeks ago I started an LLC in New York. I followed all the simple instructions online and the process was actually very straightforward and easy. I had an official digital copy of proof my LLC existed within an hour. I went to sleep with and thought that there is hope for our government.

Within a few days I received a letter from a private company informing me that unless I pay them $1000 to publish the name of my LLC in two public newspapers for six weeks, one daily newspaper and one weekly newspaper, in 120 days my LLC would need to cease doing business in NY. I pull out my phone and did a quick online search. Lo and behold, there is a law that says the same.

In this golden age, the government has chosen to require me to pay a private archaic company to print in ink thousands of times on paper the silly name of an LLC I just came up with, then proceed to distribute it by truck to a bunch of old people that then proceed to throw it in the garbage.

No fancy tax algorithms would be required for NY to simply drop this nonsensical requirement. Maybe this process exists because there are groups of people making a small fortune from it?

<comment><USER18> In VA, if you want an alcohol license for your restaurant, you are required to print an ad in a local newspaper stating that you intend to get a license. I'm guessing it's so some prohibitionist can call up the ABC and complain? It's completely ridiculous. I wondering what will happen when print newspaper ceases to exist.

<comment><USER19> I've noticed a lot of "public notice" laws. Either a physical sign on the property or something published in the newspaper. I'm not quite sure what the digital equivalent would be--a government run "announce" page that gets indexed and archived? Not really much different from press releases governments and businesses already do required by other laws.

I do see the value in publicly announcing things, but I do see newspapers as archaic.

<comment><USER20> Most modern states just post a sign over the door prior to opening that X company seeks Y license and this location.

<comment><USER19> Yeah, that works for changes at a physical location. What about founding of an LLC or other less tangible changes? Even with a physical sign it would be nice to have a searchable long term record. That seems to be what newspapers fulfilled; public broadcast and a reasonable long-term archive.

<comment><USER21> Around here the Company Court (which decides that a company formation was lawful and registers the company) has a journal/gazette, and that's the official record. Nowadays it's of course fully on-line. And lawyers (who submit the paperwork of the new company) do it exclusively on-line (they basically upload a signed ZIP of the scanned pages and an XML)!

The clerks at this court look at the scanned pages and confirm that yes they do say what the XML says, and then this gets published.

People can search for company histories, look at their bylaws, etc.

Similarly there's a different gov service for publishing corporate yearly financial reports.

Why isn't something like that for US states?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but I don't see much of a difference between extorsionist tax filing software and scam callers warning me about the IRS suing me.

Can the government _please_ make something that's easy to use? Filing taxes isn't something that requires a separate company to help with, and I see no reason why these products have a _right_ to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploitive they are or can be.

<comment><USER23> > I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not > be canonized), especially with how exploitive they are or can be.

But if we remove the annual pain of dealing with taxes, then Americans will get complacent and may stop being bothered by having to pay taxes.

\- The serious ideology of a major American political party vis-a-vis taxes.

<comment><USER24> I suggest we stop taking taxes out of paychecks and have people pay their full taxes once a year. It would help them see the total amount of taxes they pay. It would have a positive effect on government policy.

<comment><USER25> You can set your withholding to nothing and end up with a fat bill every year. Financially, this makes sense. You could be making interest on the money you owe in taxes. However, not everyone is really able to be that disciplined or just financially need every dollar coming in. I think having both options, withholding and no withholding, is the best way.

<comment><USER26> FYI, if you do this you will incur penalties. The United States requires payment quarterly. You cannot pay it all at the end of the year unless you want to pay penalties.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I really don't understand why I have to file my taxes to begin with.

I have a W2 job, and my employer presumably has sent my paystubs and tax information to the government already. I then have to copy down the information from my W2 into some kind of tax filing software, and then they have to check to make sure that what I typed matches what they have, presumably paying someone to do that if I make any kind of serious mistake. Why do _I_ have to do anything?

I'd understand if I have a lot of complex deductions or if I were running my own business, but as it stands I do the basic standard deduction (or whatever the default options on TurboTax are).

I'm genuinely asking this...is there some utility that I'm missing here to me doing the taxes myself?

<comment><USER28> It's not terribly difficult to construct circumstances in which the government doesn't know how much you owe them. It's simpler to have a single policy for everyone. Therefore, everyone has to do their own taxes. I really don't think it's more complicated than that.

<comment><USER29> Simpler for who? It's not simpler for the vast bulk of people whose only significant income is from their employer. It's not simpler for the tax authorities either, who now have to process a lot more tax returns rather than just doing something more straightforward for the common-case.

<comment><USER28> Of course it's simpler for the IRS. Simpler does not imply less work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I guess this is why some voters are eager for someone like Elizabeth Warren to get in office and stop some of this anti-competitive behavior. It's odd to me because TurboTax is good software (at least when I used it) and it saves time. So to me it's worth the money. But to force someone who as a job and no real deductions to not simply file a 1040 EZ online is just a rent seeker making sure they get paid.

<comment><USER31> >Elizabeth Warren to get in office and stop some of this anti-competitive behavior.

Warren is a run of the mill middle of the pack Democrat. She only looks good because at present the GOP looks so bad.

The government needs to be reformed, electing one party or another President isn't going to change much, unless you set the bar really low (Trump)

<comment><USER32> Based on recent history Warren certainly isn't a run of the mill middle of the pack Democrat. Her positions on banking, big business, healthcare and big tech companies is a leftward lean even when compared to Obama's tenure.

> The government needs to be reformed, electing one party or another President > isn't going to change much

And pontificating about how "the system is broken" doesn't change anything. There are no actual concrete steps to reforming government that doesn't involve elections and gradual process, or revolution and sudden progress. If you think the latter is in any way likely then you're deluded.

<comment><USER33> Obama held almost all those positions during the primary in '08\. Why do you trust Warren to follow through when Obama didn't?

<comment><USER32> He didn't, though. He advocated improving healthcare, but not to the extent that Warren does. And he castigated the banking industry but never proposed anything at the level Warren is proposing.

Besides, this isn't even the question. The OP said that Warren is a middle of the road Democrat. Compared to the positions held by the average Democrat Senator/Congressperson she isn't at all. Whether she'd follow through on those promises when elected is a valid question (though much like Obama, it wouldn't be under her sole control), but that doesn't mean she isn't left-leaning.

<comment><USER33> To what extent does Warren advocate improving healthcare? She went from "medicarefor all" to "actually medicare is just a framework" in just a month. On her platform page she seems to have abandoned single-payer entirely.

How can you trust a candidate who changes platform from progressive to milquetoast centrist so quickly? How can you trust a candidate who said several months ago that she wants to eliminate billionaires, and yet who continues to get major contributions from at least twenty billionaires?

I find it very hard to believe that Warren is genuinely left-leaning. Based on her behavior, it seems to me much more like she is a centrist candidate wrapping centrist ideas in left rhetoric.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Their efforts to block return-free filing is the important issue here. Filing taxes, even on paper, would be orders of magnitude easier if the government had to pre-fill it before sending - removing the complexity that makes tax filing applications necessary for most.

</comment><comment><USER35> Free fillable forms[1] has been around for a number of years and van be used by anyone regardless of income level.

[1] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable_Forms)

<comment><USER36> They are still an unnecessarily painful solution.

I did do these last year to finally kick TurboTax to the curb. However, they're shamefully complex especially considering how they're already a piece of software. They barely do basic arithmetic.

The restrictions are entirely artificial, and the system is gamed so that you either spend a lot of time learning tax form rules and lingo or you just pay TurboTax to do it for you.

The IRS could very easily send a pre-filled tax form for most Americans to verify and sign like other countries do. All the relevant information is already reported to the IRS. Only business owners and people with exotic tax situations would ever have to fill anything out - especially considering our now-higher standard deduction that most people don't hit.

 _Despite my complaints I still highly recommend everyone use free fillable forms._ You'll actually understand what is happening with your taxes by the end of it. And without that understanding you have no idea if TurboTax is doing it right.

<comment><USER37> What about the free forms is painful? I have only ever filed via these forms - I've never used TurboTax, and my AGI exceeds the limits on the federal free file software.

To me, it's pretty simple: you read the instruction book and go through it line by line. If you have odd forms to complete, like paperwork for an HSA, a quick google search will set you in the right direction.

People with more complicated tax returns will always need a professional's expertise. But for 90% of people who have one income source for one household, the paper forms are very intuitive.

I think people think they are "painful" because they need to read and comprehend more.

<comment><USER38> That's not what intuitive means.

('intuitive' is over used as a goal, but a form where you look up the instructions line by line in a separate book and where you occasionally have to search out how to fill out a subform _is not intuitive at all_.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Credit karma tax is (actually) free. I've used for past 3 years.

Why is it free? Because credit karma uses your financial data (including tax returns) to make better credit card / loan recommendations to you. So it ultimately benefits me as well, that's why I share my return with them.

BUT you don't have to share your tax return with CK to file. There's a box you can uncheck when starting each year.

<comment><USER40> I gave Credit Karma a shot last year, and it worked out pretty great.

It's definitely a good alternative to Turbo Tax

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Sadly you can't even file a simple quarterly estimate tax return online without paying a fee. If you want to do it for free, you have to print it out & mail it. Not sure how that benefits citizens or the IRS.

Intuit's main argument has always been that if the government provided such a service many people would overpay their taxes.

Honestly it's much cheaper, easier & better to just find a good accountant to do your taxes instead of Turbo Tax.

The government could do a lot to make filing taxes & starting businesses easier. All the politicians talking about being pro-small business could really start at these 2 steps. Otherwise, imho, their talk is nothing but empty promises. Creating hurdles like this is just a way of gate-keeping lower incomes out of small businesses.

<comment><USER42> > Intuit's main argument has always been that if the government provided such > a service many people would overpay their taxes.

If that's true, then most people would use Intuit anyway, once they realized how much they'd save.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> It's a webpage in the UK, takes about 10 minutes if you have all the data you need (how much interest etc you earned, how many charitable deductions) -- that's assuming you're self assessed. Most people don't need to fill in anything.

</comment><comment><USER44> In Canada the CRA has a list of free tax software listed on its website.

For the last two years I literally filed my tax return with two mouse clicks. Click 1 Autofill Click 2 Efile.

At some point I expect the government to just send a notice "your taxes have been filed. If you have concerns contact us".

I could have been doing it for ten years but I was stuck in the past of only using electronic tax software. And I still made a paper copy for myself.

</comment><comment><USER45> Ultimately the problem is that the tax code is altogether too complex. I filed by hand up until a couple of years ago when I had to start accounting for things like capital gains and dividends from stock sales, and at that point it became too difficult and I started paying for TurboTax. At the end of the day they solve a problem that is entirely manufactured by government.

The main area where the system seems to be gamed from a software standpoint is that the federal government provides software if your income is below a certain threshold. More than that and you're on your own. _That_ has lobbying written all over it.

<comment><USER46> A flat income tax as the sole tax would eliminate tax filing complexity. It would also eliminate the inequality in the tax code (sales tax is a larger income tax on lower incomes, tax credits disproportionally benefit people in lower cost of living areas, etc.). A flat income tax is equal in that everyone pays the same rate, and fair in that the more money a person earns the more they pay.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> Can someone from US explain how come there is still no open source alternative to TurboTax?

<comment><USER48> There are...you can download any tax form for free and fill it in by hand or in a PDF program.

You will see articles regularly attacking TurboTax because SV has been wildly unsuccessful in producing a startup that can compete with TurboTax, so instead a lot of effort is spent attacking them in the media.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook all spend significantly more on lobbying to ensure market hegemony. Don't be surprised at the pattern, attack TurboTax in the media, then up pops a new startup that will disrupt the industry. Rinse and repeat.

<comment><USER36> I disagree with this simply because the idea that competition exists or could exist is not an excuse for the system to function the way it does.

There _are_ new players in the space, like CreditKarma. Many competitors offer more features for free than Intuit as well. But that doesn't mean we should have to rely on _private companies_ (who are data hoarding) to file our taxes. That doesn't mean that free fillable forms need to be unnecessarily more difficult to use than commercial solutions.

In reality, the IRS already has all the relevant forms reported to them. For most people the IRS could send a tax form already filed out to read, verify, and return. For business owners and other more complex situations, these are still the same people who are already hiring a tax accountant and are probably skipping TurboTax as it is.

In other words, commercial tax preparation software for most users is filling an artificial need that only exists because the government has been lobbied not to provide the (basic) service itself.

<comment><USER48> > That doesn't mean that free fillable forms need to be unnecessarily more > difficult to use than commercial solutions.

They aren't. The IRS form is the exact for completed by TurboTax or any other accountant/service provider. The IRS only accepts their own forms.

>For most people the IRS could send a tax form already filed out to read, verify, and return.

Thats what is really being asked...the Government to do tax returns for you for free. Even if TurboTax and accountants weren't lobbying the Government not to do taxpayers tax returns for them for free, its a major jump to say the government/IRS would unilaterally begin doing this for taxpayers as a free service.

<comment><USER36> Telling us that the end result of the form is the same is meaningless. You don't fill out the form manually on TurboTax. It automatically imports W2 information, it asks layperson's questions, and generates the final form.

If you do this yourself, it's far more time consuming.

I don't understand why you think it's a major jump for the IRS to provide this service. Other countries already do this. Other federal agencies also provide complex web services like My Social Security and Healthcare.gov.

The IRS already has your W2 and 1099 data. The IRS already knows when you make a mistake, automatically, often live as you e-file. I have had e-files rejected instantly due to mistakes. They clearly already know how much I'm supposed to owe them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> I recently learned about this volunteer maintained spreadsheet for helping with your 1040.

[https://sites.google.com/site/excel1040/](https://sites.google.com/site/excel1040/)

<comment><USER50> I've been using this for last couple years and it's a great piece of "software", I prefer it over TurboTax.

The dedication of the maintainer to this project is truly impressive.

I'm on linux but it works fine in the browser version of Excel.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> This seems to make the hn front page every 60 days or so. Is there anything new here?

<comment><USER52> No, it's just still amusing to the rest of the world. We're like "This is 2019, not 1920".

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Yet another data point: Hungary.

For most people the National Tax Bureau (NAV) prepares the filing based on the data they receive from employers, banks, etc. You can check the content on a web page, and approve, if you agree.

For those who have income that must be self-reported, there is the free Java app provided by NAV. I have used the latter for several years and it has been working reasonably well for me.

</comment><comment><USER54> I'm likely in the minority here, but as a product TurboTax hasn't really bothered me that much. It makes filling my taxes pretty easy, and saves most of the info year of year so I don't have to re-enter it. Compared to the thousands of dollars in taxes I've paid, the $100 or so turbo tax gets doesn't seem too bad.

My issue is with all this is pretty simple - I pay too much in tax, and/or the quality of government those taxes are buying is subpar at best. I also strongly suspect leaving the government in charge of comping up with a solution to filing taxes electronically would continue the trend of disappointment.

If my choice is between paying a private company a couple bucks to make my interaction with the government easier, or going back to the old paper way of doing things until the government gets its shit together.....well I'm going to stick with the former, unless I'm missing something here?

</comment><comment><USER55> This is just a convenient excuse for 3 layers of politicians with their own filing requirements, each one trying to get tax breaks for their favorite constituents. If we had a simple tax system there would be less power for politicians and less they can negotiate with. Blaming Turbo Tax is silly.

</comment><comment><USER56> " ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up for ProPublica's Big Story newsletter to receive stories like this one in your inbox as soon as they are published."

Is propublica good/reliable news source? Always looking for good news sources

</comment><comment><USER57> I like to look at things from Buddhist point if view. Calfile "buys" you the saved 50 bucks (3 hours of work for most people?) x the number if people use it, especially if you understand the implications and your intent is clear. Of course, a practical Buddhist never "spends" the earned opportunities, but reinvests them to get even more opportunities, until the impact is measured in trillions of years. But that's philosophy. On the practical side, if I were you, I'd do two things: (1) open source this on behalf of the gov - it's important to get the "official" status; (2) advertise this over official channels: send them a green letter from ca.gov/irs that say there is such a tool. The software doesn't need to be perfect: the website that manages toll fees in my state is in stone age, yet it's official and it's better to have this site than not.

</comment><comment><USER58> ProPublica seems to be singularly focused on Intuit to the exclusion of all the other powerful interests who benefit from a complex and opaque tax code. They may be fighting efforts to make filing easier under the current rules, but they aren't really doing anything to keep those rules a clusterfuck.

<comment><USER59> Who else lobbies like Intuit? Who else spends millions of dollars on defeating measures intended to make paying taxes simpler and easier?

<comment><USER60> > Who else lobbies like Intuit?

Google spent $21 million in 2018. Facebook spent $12 million. Amazon spent $14 million. Microsoft spent $9 million.

[https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/23/tech-companies- lobbying-...](https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/23/tech-companies- lobbying-2018-google-facebook-amazon/)

<comment><USER61> Your point being? This discussion refers to an article about tax filing and Intuit's efforts to retain tax code complexity and self-beneficial regulatory conditions.

Yes, companies like the ones you cited spend significant amounts of money to educate and persuade lawmakers. Academically I'd like to see what a world without lobbying looks like, but honestly, I'm not confident it would be significantly better for citizens (and may be significantly worse in some ways).

But that's a tangential topic for a different discussion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Paying taxes is so frustrating.

Gov : "Please pay us the taxes I owe"

Tax Payer : "Ok. How much do I owe?"

Gov : "We can't tell you that. Hire an accountant if you need help"

Tax Payer : "fu*k fine. (Files hinder and makes one mistake)

Gov : "You owe us money!! You didn't pay enough. You owe us interest on what's due as well!"

Tax Payer : "I thought you didn't know how much I owe! Just tell me!!!!"

Fin

</comment><comment><USER63> Until garbage like this stops, you don't get to call our economic system a free market. This is plutocracy, plain and simple. It's not a free market when large incumbents can bribe the government into forcing their product to be needed.

</comment><comment><USER64> In New Zealand, the involvement that I had with my tax department this year since they have switched to an automated system was checking my bank balance one day to find that I had received a tax refund.

</comment><comment><USER65> Ok, I have a really dumb question...

Why does everyone say you can't file taxes for free? The IRS has a site for it here: [https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal- taxes-f...](https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for- free)

I get that Intuit is fighting tooth and nail to keep their business, but "hiding" a page from google - seriously, is that to be considered evil now?

Seriously, I'm missing something in this conversation.

<comment><USER39> You CAN, if...

1) you are under a certain income threshold

2) you go seek out that particular page (vs searching free file in google and clicking on intuit)

Or you go directly to intuit and qualify as a "free filer" which you only qualify for if you have a dead simple return - w2 and no deductions or extra forms.

The problem isn't that you can't file free. The problem is that intuit is doing what it can to bury it while promoting its conveniently named "free" edition that bumps you up into a paid edition faster than you can say "what?".

<comment><USER58> Free fillable forms are available to everyone, and referenced repeatedly in the Form 1040 instructions.

<comment><USER66> This is correct. The problem is the lobbying has stopped making forms easier or non-existent. They are complex because of private corporate influence, not the constituents of the I.R.S..

<comment><USER58> What does that have to do with the ability to e-file for free? I didn't say it was a _good_ option, just that it existed. There's plenty to complain about without making things up ("You CAN, if... [...] 1) you are under a certain income threshold").

> The problem is the lobbying has stopped making forms easier or non-existent. > They are complex because of private corporate influence, not the > constituents of the I.R.S..

Where did I contradict this?

<comment><USER66> Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything you wrote was incorrect. I was agreeing with you and this my opinion on the top level comment. Sorry for the confusion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> Isn't tax filing complicated because of the tax system? If your income is low enough it is free. Below $66000. You just have to say no to add ons. State filing can be free if you shop around.

Free File: Do Your Federal Taxes for Free [https://www.irs.gov/filing/free- file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...](https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your- federal-taxes-for-free)

</comment><comment><USER68> I am all for free filing software for the people!

What TurboTax offers that a free version may not is the ability for a CPA to sign off on one's taxes. That is worth paying for in my opinion. B/C they carry the liability if I were to be audited.

I think the IRS needs to simplify the filing process so that a CPA is not needed.

Sadly, this issue is more complex than intuits lobbying power.

</comment><comment><USER69> Not a direct counter-point to this piece, but:

[https://www.wsj.com/articles/irs-commissioned-report- respond...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/irs-commissioned-report-responds-to- criticism-over-free-file-program-11570576703?mod=rsswn)

It's a high-level view of the 2 sides arguing about the Free File program.

</comment><comment><USER70> I'm not in the US, but I'm not seeing the reason for all the anger.

Yes, they are hiding the free option, similarly to how Google for example was hiding the free option for the Gsuite - you had to dig for it in the menu.

Plus there are multiple alternatives.

What's wrong with a company using little tricks and dark patterns to nudge more people into paying for their service?

</comment><comment><USER71> Google "free tax filing" and these organizations all promise free tax filing on the first page: IRS, eFile, FreeTaxUSA, TurboTax, H&R Block, TaxAct, and others. Intuit's not the top organic or paid slot. Are all of these equally misleading or is Intuit just called out for being the market leader?

</comment><comment><USER72> Who is going to build this "free" tax filing system? I hope not the IRS [0]

0: [https://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/computing/it/irs- predic...](https://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/computing/it/irs-predicted- tax-filing-failure)

<comment> n-exploit "On 17 April 2018, the final day for U.S. citizens to file 2017 tax returns, the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS) suffered a major system failure related to the hardware supporting its 58-year old, 20-million-line Cobol- based Individual Master File system [PDF], which is still being used today to process the vast majority of individual tax returns. As a result of the failure, the IRS extended by a day the filing due date."

Maybe that's because a decades-old system hit capacity, and has nothing to do with the system design?

<comment><USER72> "While it's true that the IRS has experienced budget reductions over the past several years, those cuts hardly explain a failure of an 18-month-old piece of computer hardware. More important, those claims conveniently ignore that the IRS has spent untold billions since the late 1960s on numerous attempts to modernize its IT systems, all centered on trying to replace the ancient IMF system, with minimum success."

I assume you didn't read the whole source

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> Is there not an option that has all of the advantages of electronic filing, EXCEPT actually submitting the return? i.e. you print everything out at the end and mail it? Because I mean, that would make it immune to all lobbying but still be a huge improvement over filling it out by hand.

</comment><comment><USER74> In norway, filing taxes is optional. Citisens are highly encouraged too log in to a website called AltInn (wich means literally everything in) and check the data, and do adjustments. Income, bank loans and investments are usually registered correctly.

</comment><comment><USER75> Just use credit karma.

</comment><comment><USER30> I guess this is why some wish to vote for Elizabeth Warren. This kind of crap goes on all the time. FWIW I think TurboTax is pretty useful and because it saves time worth paying for in many cases. However someone with very simple taxes, like working a job with no itemized deductions they should be able to file an online 1040EZ or = for free and in a few minutes. It's very simple. This is probably why the whole money-in-politics thing is so powerful as well.

</comment><comment><USER76> I refuse to use TurboTax for my (albeit simple) tax filings. I used FreeTaxUSA last year and it was pretty solid.

</comment><comment><USER77> Missing option: repeal the 16th amendment and get rid of the income tax. It's intrusive and complicated.

</comment><comment><USER78> The income tax, designed to prevent the accumulation of wealth, needs to be replaced with a wealth tax[0]. This would simplify filing for the 99% of Americans who are not the 1%.

0: [http://www.cosmicweenie.com/wealth_tax.pdf](http://www.cosmicweenie.com/wealth_tax.pdf) (don't let the domain name fool you...)

</comment><comment><USER79> We are living in a conflicted world full of quid pro quos powered by lobbying congress.

</comment><comment><USER80> Is it that time of the week again?

[https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-just-tricked- you...](https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-just-tricked-you-into- paying-to-file-your-taxes)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-military- discoun...](https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-military-discount- trick-troops-paying-to-file-taxes)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-funded-review- confirm...](https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-funded-review-confirms- turbotax-hid-free-filing-from-search-engines-but-says-theres-no-need-for- major-changes)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-deliberately- hid...](https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-deliberately-hides-its- free-file-page-from-search-engines)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/intuit-turbotax-h-r- block...](https://www.propublica.org/article/intuit-turbotax-h-r-block-gutted- free-tax-filing-internal-memo)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-is-about-to- ban-...](https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-is-about-to-ban-the- government-from-offering-free-online-tax-filing-thank-turbotax)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/listen-to-turbotax-lie- to...](https://www.propublica.org/article/listen-to-turbotax-lie-to-get-out- of-refunding-overcharged-customers)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-tax-law- threatened-...](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-tax-law-threatened- turbotax-profits-started-charging-disabled-unemployed-and-students)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-scraps- provision...](https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-scraps-provision-to- restrict-irs-from-competing-with-turbotax)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/how-to-get-turbotax- refun...](https://www.propublica.org/article/how-to-get-turbotax-refund)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/intuit-ceo-in-internal- vi...](https://www.propublica.org/article/intuit-ceo-in-internal-video-hiding- free-turbotax-was-in-best-interest-of-taxpayers)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/here-are-your-stories- of-...](https://www.propublica.org/article/here-are-your-stories-of-being- tricked-into-paying-by-turbotax-you-often-need-the-money)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-maker-intuit- h-r...](https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-maker-intuit-h-r-block- new-york-regulator-launches-investigation)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/elizabeth-warren-and- othe...](https://www.propublica.org/article/elizabeth-warren-and-other- senators-call-for-refunds-and-investigations-of-turbotax-and-h-r-block)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/senior-irs-leaders- launch...](https://www.propublica.org/article/senior-irs-leaders-launch- review-of-partnership-with-turbotax-and-h-r-block)

[https://www.propublica.org/article/bill-to-limit-irs- ability...](https://www.propublica.org/article/bill-to-limit-irs-ability-to- offer-free-tax-filing-service-is-getting-new-scrutiny)

And that's just ones from this year. I'm not saying TurboTax isn't a scummy company, but this is just getting ridiculous.

</comment><comment><USER60> The crux of this article is a PowerPoint slide from 12 years ago? Really?

<comment><USER81> If you hover your mouse cursor over the underlined words in the article (these are called 'hyperlinks' or, more informally, 'links') and then hit the left mouse button, your World Wide Web browser will display other documents which ProPublica used for their reporting.

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> Hello

</comment><comment><USER83> Anyone else read that as TurboGrafx?

</comment><comment><USER84> When I lived in New Zealand, you didn't have to file at all. You could create an account on a website with your tax ID and see all the reports employers sent in. You could requests corrections if things were wrong and have any return transferred to a normal bank account.

In Australia, they had a desktop application you could download, provided by the government. It wasn't pretty, but it was straight forward and took less than an hour to go through the whole thing.

I once met an Aussie at a security meetup who worked at immigration and I told him how surprised I was that I got my visa in like two days. He was like, "oh I worked on that piece. Yea that use to take two weeks; but we were able to fix a lot of that process." I wouldn't be surprised if Australia taxes were all web based and even faster today.

<comment><USER85> Surely that's only for employees though, not for companies? This is how it works in several countries, including the UK - your employer tells the tax service about your salary and pension payments, and you only need to fill a tax return if you have "something else" to tell them about, such as another source of income.

</comment></comment><comment><USER86> How about a change.org petition and starting a github project to counter the lobbying.</comment>


Still Logged In: What Social VR and AR Can Learn from MMOs [video] - <AUTHOR> https://vimeo.com/208372546 <comment><AUTHOR> Since the page doesn't really call out who's speaking, the presenter is Raph Koster, who has a long history designing online games (including _Ultima Online_ and _Star Wars Galaxies_ ) and writing about game design theory.

[https://www.raphkoster.com/about-raph/](https://www.raphkoster.com/about- raph/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raph_Koster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raph_Koster)

<comment><USER2> I was glad to see that Raph Koster is still puttering about. Star Wars Galaxies soaked up many hours of my time as a teenager.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Having worked at an MMO dev, I think this talk's praises and criticisms are all super on point. The social stereotypes of tech are I think even more pronounced in the games industry, and it would be super if everyone were this conscientious and their companies empowered all employees to have a voice about this kind of thing.

The pitfalls can so easily slip through into emerging social media forms. Making aware the lessons learned from the pioneering days of social videogames is definitely not an easy thing to do simply due to the elitism and proprietary nature prevalent in the games industry.

</comment><comment><USER4> Fantastic video. As an industry it seems like we tend not to focus on the ethical implications of our work as much as we should. Zuck's response to the speaker (if true) is reprehensible.

</comment><comment><USER5> > "What ethical implications?"

I burst out laughing at that. It ought not to surprise me that Mr. Zuckerberg is like that, and yet.

</comment><comment><USER6> I wonder if future popular virtual worlds won't go more towards the 'abandon all hope ye who enter here'-kind of route. That being said, the premise of setting up AI Police in games to avoid abuse seems like an amazing project to work on.

<comment><USER5> Google, Facebook etc are surely essentially already trying to build "AI police" to cut moderation costs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is an unbelievable good video. I just created an account here to say "thank you for sharing it!".

</comment><comment><USER8> Does anyone have a transcript of this video?</comment>


How  SublimeText Bodybags vim+Terminator - <AUTHOR> http://ngokevin.com/blog/sublime/

<comment><USER2> Sublime Text is awesome, but the article falls completely flat by mentioning stuff that's actually in vim and missing the parts that are not.

        5. vim compatability!

> _With a few tweaks, I was able to make it just like vim as far as I could > tell_

It took me five seconds to hit walls and off-by-one issues revealing Vintage mode as a remote simulacrum of Vim. A look at the source confirmed that it's just a mode emulation and a small bunch of keybindings, a far cry from the notion of text objects which makes Vim what it is. I am a vim user, but I use ST _without_ Vintage because the impedance mismatch is too big.

> _minus some :commands_

Author doesn't mention VintageEx. Still thouroughly lacking, even for basic stuff.

        4. Powerful Keybindings in JSON and Plugins in Python

_:help index_ lists default keybindings _:verbose map_ lists all set keybindings, what they do and _where they've been set_.

With Vim (vim --version will tell you), depending on compilation options, you can write plugins in various languages (python, perl, ruby, lua, tcl...), not just vimscript.

hot-load: _:source ~/.vimrc_ or whatever other file.

        3. Package Manager and the More Centralized Community

vim.org/scripts[0] is the central place to look for.

Pathogen and Vundle fix that. Package Control give you a central, automated and in-editor _index_ , which I'm not sure is a real plus since I care about installing plugins once in a blue moon, so that's merely a convenience. Besides I've had Package Control bork ST more than once on upgrades (either of ST or of itself), so I'd rather have it outside.

        2. Project Sessions

_:mksession_ is what you want. Bind it to a key[1], or be creative in your vimrc.

Also, automatic restore[2] when there's one around and you boot with just _vim_ in the project directory.

        1. Ctrl+P - GotoAnything:

For the function mentioned (fuzzy search for files), there's a plugin of the same name.

The author again fails to mention what makes Sublime Text supposedly stand apart: Go To Anything goes to _anything_ , not just files, so symbols (with @ _symbol_ ) and lines (with : _linenum_ ) are reachable from a single shortcut.

I don't want to sound mean, ST rocks and has a number of good things I miss in Vim, but they're not among this list. In fact it's good enough that I contemplated doing a real Vim mode with extensible text objects (hence why I looked at the Vintage source).

[0]: <http://www.vim.org/scripts/index.php>

[1]: <https://github.com/lloeki/vimfiles/blob/master/rc#L158>

[2]: <https://github.com/lloeki/vimfiles/blob/master/rc#L257>

<comment><USER3> Generally speaking (not specific to ST), "vim compatibility" is a vicious tease.

<comment><USER4> That is one of my biggest issues when trying another editor, the vim compatibility is great, until it isn't.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Great article.

As a text editor, I can agree that SublimeText is an absolutely gorgeous product. As a Vim user, it didn't take me long to realize it wasn't for me.

For me, SublimeText still feels like I'm using a program external to the system I'm developing on. It doesn't feel like it's quite close enough to the bones of the system to me.

I know that a "feeling" isn't really the best argument, so here are a couple things that are more concrete to attempt to explain it:

1) I haven't found an implementation of the ease of which it's possible to split your editor quickly and easily. :split or :vsplit and :tabf are all commands I use frequently to not only open files when I need them, but browse the filesystem quickly and easily.

2) Running external commands. While I understand it's possible to run external commands with a key binding in SublimeText, I can simply drop into a shell (:sh) or execute a command :! with just a few keystrokes in Vim, whenever I want.

3) Since Vim runs in the terminal, it means that I can, very easily, perform many things without having to use the mouse or alt-tab once. Uninterrupted workflow is extremely important to me as a developer who tinkers with the entire stack:

SSH into a remote box, manipulate some files and tail a log file for an error, locate a file, edit it in Vim, hop into PostgreSQL to perform some queries, fire up a local development server, test an HTTP response, see that it works, create a quickfix file for all the changes, open them all in Vim, recheck everything, push my changes up, restart the services, monitor the server with the changes in place, ensure things are good, and exit.

I can do that all within the comfort of the terminal, where Vim runs for me.

To reiterate: I agree that SublimeText is a beautiful editor, but I don't see how it could possibly replace the availability of Vim in my workflow.

<comment><USER6> > _3) Since Vim runs in the terminal, it means that I can, very easily, > perform many things without having to use the mouse or alt-tab once. > Uninterrupted workflow is extremely important to me as a developer who > tinkers with the entire stack:_

I have a stupid, but related question for the smart people of HN.

I find myself using Vim in the terminal, instead of GVim, for the same reason: Ctrl-Z works, Ctrl-PgDn to the next terminal tab (and back: Ctrl-PgUp) works, it doesn't pop up a new window when I run it, etc.

But GVim has much nicer colors (I picked my favorite out of about 50 themes), and I can't get Vim in a terminal to look more than halfway decent. In the terminal, colors are more distracting and hard on the eyes.

Is anyone aware of a way to get the best of both worlds, i.e. true-color colorschemes in Vim in a terminal? To partially answer my own question, KDE's Konsole seems to support true color[1], but before I install it I'd be curious to know if Vim even works with that feature, and if there are any other, preferably GTK-based, true-color terminals out there.

[1]: [https://github.com/robertknight/konsole/blob/master/user- doc...](https://github.com/robertknight/konsole/blob/master/user- doc/README.moreColors)

<comment><USER7> Check out [http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/17941z/is_there_any_way...](http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/17941z/is_there_any_way_to_display_a_gui_colorscheme/)

<comment><USER6> Thanks! This is the only response that actually answers the question. I'll try Konsole with the linked vim patch.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I've tried Sublime Text several times, but each time I went back to Vim. The Vintage plugin just does not cut it for me; there're too many things that Vim does, that Sublime cannot do. I couldn't live with EasyMotion, RelativeNumber, the fantastic split window support, Gundo (Undo Tree), and much more.

Regarding the plugins he mentions, I see nothing special, all of that is also available as Vim plugins:

5\. Vim Compatibility (Obviously in there)

4\. Keybindings in JSON are indeed nice, though imap / and friends in Vimrc are ok, too. Using Vim+Python, one can also write Vim plugins in Python (import vim).

3\. Vundle (<https://github.com/gmarik/vundle>) is a fantastic package manager and reads GitHub repositories like<https://github.com/vim-scripts>. Adding a new package is as simple as doing :Bundle 'vim-scripts/YankRing.vim' :BundleInstall or :BundleSearch foo to find what's available.

The listed plugins: Git -> try Fugitive.vim it is awesome Emmett -> Also available for Vim SublimeLinter -> Syntastic SublimeCodeIntel -> Clang Complete

2\. Vim has built-in support for sessions via the :mksession command. Or, just use the session.vim (<https://github.com/xolox/vim-session>) plugin, because it makes it even easier.

1\. There's CommandT (<https://github.com/wincent/Command-T>), CtrlP (<https://github.com/kien/ctrlp.vim>), Waldo (<https://github.com/jtaby/Waldo>), FuzzyFinder (<https://github.com/vim- scripts/FuzzyFinder>). And most offer much more functionality than just file, directory, or buffer search.

I recently made the switch from Xcode to Vim (I mostly do Objective-C these days) by getting Clang Complete running ([http://appventure.me/2013/01/use- vim-as-xcode-alternative-io...](http://appventure.me/2013/01/use-vim-as-xcode- alternative-ios-mac-cocoa.html)) so that I can use Vim full time and not only for web and python stuff. I couldn't be happier.

<comment><USER9> Just installed this new EasyMotion plugin. Works well!

<https://github.com/tednaleid/sublime-EasyMotion>

<comment><USER10> Thanks, glad you like it!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I still have only used sublime text once, but I might try it out again soon just to get a better idea of what these features are that make it so much better. And them I'm going to add them into vim.

I think that it is a serious problem that sublime text is proprietary. While it does support plugins, the one time I did use it I remember seeing several messages from plugin authors complaining that the sublime API does not support certain features that they wanted it to support, and that the sublime text authors refused to implement them. So to that effect I really think there is no benefit to using a proprietary text editor, no matter how many flashy features it has. I would rather just improve vim (and encourage others to do so) so that it is better than sublime text.

It also seems somewhat strange that sublime is proprietary considering how lax their licensing policy is. It doesn't seem to me like there is any financial or practical reason for it to be proprietary. To channel Stallman, the only thing I can reasonably conclude is that the author intends to attack his own users. It really disappoints me to see that this kind of project is being promoted as a replacement for free software editors.

</comment><comment><USER12> I don't want to be "that guy" but the only thing really stopping me from switching is the lack of an ARM Linux client. Heck, I'd even be willing to do the work on it, but until I can use the same editor across all my machines, I'll stick with vim. It ain't perfect but I can put it on all my machines (and the Chromebook even comes with it, just have to switch to developer mode to get access to it.)

But ST does look quite nice, I've played with it a few times, but never really seriously looked at it.

<comment><USER13> This. I'd love Sublime on a Raspberry Pi (or on my phone, once it's running Ubuntu).

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> it's funny how people praise Sublime Text when plain old Emacs can do most of the things that Sublime Text can:

> 5\. vim compatability!

evil-mode - a very advanced vi layer for emacs, probably much better than vintage, I hear only good things about it although I use the standard emacs mode

> 4\. Powerful Keybindings in JSON and Plugins in Python

powerful keybindings

      (global-set-key (kbd "<f2>") 'split-window-vertically)
      (global-set-key (kbd "<f3>") 'split-window-horizontally)
      (global-set-key (kbd "<f4>") 'delete-window)
      (global-set-key (kbd "<f5>") 'delete-other-windows)

and modes (plugins) in Elisp

> 3\. Package Manager and the More Centralized Community

since Emacs 24 a package manager is included and there are awesome repos for all of your needs:

        (setq package-archives '((     "elpa" . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/")
                                 ("marmalade" . "http://marmalade-repo.org/packages/")
                                 (    "melpa" . "http://melpa.milkbox.net/packages/")))

after that run

        M-x list-packages

and choose from around 1000 packages

> 2\. Project Sessions

there are many modes that support that if you want it. I personally don't like it though. "projectile" is pretty nice though: <https://github.com/bbatsov/projectile>

> 1\. Ctrl+P - GotoAnything:

helm is what you would use on Emacs: <https://github.com/emacs-helm/helm>

it's awesome

<comment><USER15> That's my biggest issue with Emacs: there are more than one million lines of elisp in circulation.

There isn't going to be any text editor come anywhere close to that.

I need something "programmable" so I'm "stuck" with Emacs.

I'm a bit bitter because sometimes (often actually) I wish Emacs was multi- threaded, easier to interface with externals tools (to make it a bit more like an IDE) -- that is, able to quickly invoke external tools without blocking everything etc.

But I realize that Emacs is soooo big that it's probably going to take a long time before we see a "modern" Emacs.

<comment><USER14> > I'm a bit bitter because sometimes (often actually) I wish Emacs was multi- > threaded

Tony> \- Is multi-threading coming to emacs 25?

I don't know about Emacs 25, but I did manage to merge trunk to the concurrency branch today. If you're interested you could try it out.

[http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs- devel/2012-12/msg004...](http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs- devel/2012-12/msg00465.html)

it looks like Emacs should soon (?) support concurrency

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I think trying to convert vim users is pretty futile. /r/vim/ brought up a lot of issues with Sublime's vintage mode:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/17i5ps/from_a_vim_persp...](http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/17i5ps/from_a_vim_perspective_what_do_you_think_about/c85p4wd)

</comment><comment><USER17> I don't think these current features + plugins 'body bag' vim. For instance, is all of this vim 'body bagging' goodness available to you over SSH?

<comment><USER18> I agree, work over ssh or go home.

I am pretty sure I will be using Vim when Sublime goes the way of Textmate and SlickEdit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> So… we have a guy with what looks like a limited experience of tools A and B writing an article full of hyperbole and factually wrong on how tool B kills tool A.

Yes, tool B is a good tool. However I can't imagine a single reason why anybody with a sizeable experience of tool A switch to tool B.

Newcomers who turned to tool A because it was trendy last year but never got the hang of it, on the other hand…

</comment><comment><USER20> Is this supposed to be funny or what? I don't know Sublime, it probably has some unique features but I don't see even a single feature like that in this list. It's all - including point 5, VIM emulation mode - pretty much expected from any modern editor. The last thing I used before switching to VIM was Komodo IDE, which had everything mentioned in this list (and more because of the "IDE" part, but that's irrelevant). I don't know for sure, but I suspect things like Eclipse or Visual Studio these days have all these features too.

Really, we should stop saying that one particular tree is especially great because it has green leaves. I sincerely believe that there ARE innovative, interesting features added to many editors but I just don't have the time to dig through tons of obvious things to read about the single feature that sets given editor apart. I'm glad and happy that your editor does syntax highlighting, code folding, autocompletes words and has a plugin system, it's obvious, now can we move to the interesting part?

</comment><comment><USER21> No, these are not things that 'bodybag' vim at all.

<comment><USER22> But isn't it interesting that people talk like this, even if they are wrong? Whoever talked about UltraEdit or BareBones in this fasion?

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Other than the central repository (which vim does lack, there are quite a few plugins I'll admit), I don't see anything too different from vim, or am I just missing something. not trying to be mean spirited, just curious.

<comment><USER24> You have almost everything VIM is awesome at + nicer non terminal based UI niceties. Plus its really really fast. You get the code wall, really good window manager, better project management and its also cross platform.

<comment><USER25>
      Non Terminal Based UI Niceties: Use Gvim
      Cross Platform: So is vim/gvim. I use vim on Mac/Linux/Windows.

I love both vim and Sublime, so I would call 'Bodybagging' is flame-bait at best.

<comment><USER26> Gvim has a lot of awkward hangups, in my opinion. Selecting text is still weird, there's no context menu, etc. It's vim outside of a terminal, which is great, but most full-fledged graphical editors take better advantage of their environment than Gvim does.

<comment><USER27> I agree with gvim being a bit basic. If you're on OSX, I think MacVim (<http://code.google.com/p/macvim/>) is a much better choice. On Linux, I use terminal vim and rely on the terminal for environmental integration: you can choose from a dozen X terminals that will do almost anything you want.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> And just wait until Sublime 3 is ready.

<http://www.sublimetext.com/3>

<comment><USER29> Which negates all plugins until they are updated.

I've been a pico/pine user for almost 20 years and on OSX ST2 has been my editor of choice for the past couple. I decided just this past week to force myself into getting to know vim better because I hear how powerful it is.

Once you get a decent .vimrc going, it can be configured to be as good/better than ST2. Its free. Its cross platform. Its easily usable over SSH.

So at least for me, vim > st2/st3.

<comment><USER30> If you are just staring with VIM, I recommend taking a look at spf13-vim (<https://github.com/spf13/spf13-vim>)

<comment><USER31> I have been using vi/vim since 1989, and I found spf13 to be a totally frustrating experience. Twice I tried it out and quit. It messes with settings of neocomplcache (issues reported and verified with authors), it installs plugins like autocomplete (??) which can also be frustrating. I had hunt through the source of some 20 or more plugins to figure out the offending ones and remove them.

However, that's just my experience. I'd suggest he try a clean vim and add plugins as he needs them. There are plenty of links suggesting great plugins for developers. "sjl" (steve losh) has an article which was linked here (Coming Home to Vim) that mentions some good plugins.

<comment><USER30> The reason that I suggest spf13, is because it shows what's possible. I spent nearly a year building up a set of plugins and settings only to discover that 95% of what I had "discovered" was included.

I'm sure it has it's problems, but you can easily remove all of the included bundles. I think at the very least it provides a well structured foundation to built upon.

<comment><USER29> Thanks for the tips!

I've been studying other's .vimrc files in an effort to understand what all vim vanilla is capable of. Once I get that dialed in, I'll look into plugins for my local box; I just want to make sure that I can use it effectively just by firing up any new VM.

Also, I'm being sacrilegious and setting myself up for primarily --INSERT-- mode, since its the most like a GUI text editor. Its making the barrier of entry slightly more endurable!

<comment><USER31> Sooner or later someone is going to tell you to put this in your .vimrc:

        inoremap  <Up>     <NOP>
        inoremap  <Down>   <NOP>
        inoremap  <Left>   <NOP>
        inoremap  <Right>  <NOP>
        noremap   <Up>     <NOP>
        noremap   <Down>   <NOP>
        noremap   <Left>   <NOP>
        noremap   <Right>  <NOP>

This will get you to stop using the arrow keys for moving around, use either hjkl, or faster combinations such as "f" "t". Hope you get out of insert mode soon!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> However "X" body bags Vim, I will never switch.

</comment><comment><USER33> :%s/SublimeText/Sublime Text/g</comment>