We did a Show HN and it landed on the front page of Hacker News - <AUTHOR> http://blog.pitchit.io/2014/3/13/we-did-a-show-hn-and-it-landed-on-front-page

<comment><USER2> I feel like half of what I see here is advertisements thinly disguised as blog posts. Now this company needs to promote itself a second time by calling attention to the first time it promoted itself?

<comment><USER3> "Show HN" is already kind of meta, so this definitely strikes me as meta-meta. I think the main problem here is the post title: _" We did a SHOW HN and it landed on the front page of Hacker News"_. Good for you. Really. That's an accomplishment, or exciting to say the least. But by definition there are hundreds of front-page links a day -- we don't need a briefing on all of them. What would be next, "We did a post about our front-page experience that landed on the front page."?

The best part of this article was seeing what they did wrong, how they listened to the feedback and made changes.

Maybe a bit wordy, but I would have gone with something like, "What we learned we were doing wrong when our Show HN landed on the front page."

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, your title suggestion would have been more appropriate. It is all about how we reacted to the honest feedback.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> | Less than 1% of those visitors actually tried our presentation demo (only about 5 did) which was surprising (and disappointing).

I think it's been documented that engagement from reddit/facebook/etc is very low because you're often using a shotgun approach instead of targeting people who would actually become customers. On the other hand, this product would really be in the wheel house of a site frequented by tech entrepreneurs. It's cool to see that you were able to get feedback and act on it.

If I could throw my two cents in, I, and I assume anyone else visiting your site while at work, will always be hesitant to click a play button.

<comment><AUTHOR> Very true. Just a note that the play button is actually just for the video. The larger green button below it is for the instant demo.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I have posted a blog post[0] explaining I was building a redundant storage service for developers. It was on the front page for about 4 hours. I think the best place it got was about 18th. I didn't put analytics and wasn't very careful about my logs. Actually the logs report the same IP all the time: the HTTP proxy and no referrer URL :)

I got very few people who sign up (which amount to choose a login and a password, no email required), I think it was around 10. Only one person tried really the service (i.e. uploaded an SSH public key and uploaded a few files).

The interesting thing is that even when the post had slipped from the front page, it was still generating a bit of traffic, possibly doubling the number of person registering.

The best thing I got from that post though was some feedback on HN itself but also a couple of persons sent me an encouraging emails. For that reason alone, even if you're not ready (you never are), post publicly your work as soon as possible.

[0]: [http://hypered.io/blog/2014-02-17-building- reesd/](http://hypered.io/blog/2014-02-17-building-reesd/)

<comment><AUTHOR> As another commenter mentioned "it's been documented that engagement from reddit/facebook/etc is very low". It is all about the unfiltered feedback and what you do with it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I think it's very easy to miss that there's a video in your homepage. The first thing I saw was the green "Try PitchIt now", I had to go back to search for the video.

I think it's because it's the same colour and roughly the same size as the surrounding text so it looks like some kind of a logo. Maybe you should display the video player to make it more obvious?

See for instance, straight from the frontpage at the moment: [https://www.useslate.com/](https://www.useslate.com/)

You can't miss the video that way, and I know what will happen when I click the "play" button (I won't be taken to an other page for instance). In your case the video puts itself on top of the rest of the page, meaning I can't listen to it while I idly browse the rest of the content.

As for the actual "hands on" demo the first thing I see is a prompt for me to input an email address. I immediately closed the tab. You want 0 friction here IMHO, use fake addresses to give the potential user a taste of the application. Then maybe at the end prompt for more info.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, we didn't have the room for that type of change before with the extra text heading. We'll have to try that out as well... it would be more obvious for sure.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Since you asked:

The name is not working for me at all. I read it as an abbreviation of Pitchlet. The l and I are too close together for me. Only when I saw the link with a lower case i the lights went on. But that is not the only reason. And I can see why I might be the only person thinking of applets here.

A pitch is a "Sales presentation". There is only one thing worse than a presentation, and that is a "Sales presentation". As soon as I see "Pitch", my entire being prepares itself for a person bothering me. I think of car sales people and evereyone else who approaches me when I enter a store. Unfortunately there is only negativity associated with all that. So for me "Pitch" is a negativ word. Hey, that could just be me. It has a lot to do with cultural background. Maybe I would call it KeyPoints.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting feedback. I think we are way to close to even see that. A font with the bars on the top and bottom of the I would be a better fit.

Sales (and by extension pitches) is a necessary reality for all companies. Selling is hard. I am not good as sales and we built it to help us sell which is always easier and more effective with visuals.

There are a lot of other uses for PitchIt besides sales but so far the name has clicked with us. Besides I would have to remove my tatoo if the name changed!

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Delay? We were originally using youtube to play the video but now we have switched to Wistia. It is much better and we can link directly to the instant demo at the end rather than showing other random videos.

</comment><comment><USER3> > _" Since we made those changes, we have noticed the ratio of people who try > our presentation demo now is up from an embarrassingly low 1% to a much > healthier 28%."_

I think you've made positive changes, but don't forget that your organic audience is much different than the burst traffic from a link aggregator like Hacker News.

Not that your conclusions are _necessarily_ wrong, but it's easy to make false correlations when more than one variable changes.

<comment><AUTHOR> We have made a lot of changes so drawing conclusions is difficult. Removing the name/email on the instant demo instantly increased activity there. Moving forward we also introduced a 30 day free trial which will now be our target metric. We are iterating a lot of things and hopefully can limit are changes and get more targeted data.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Maybe it has something to do with the 15 second delay between the click on the play button and the actual start of the video.. unacceptable these days imho. Nice read thou :)

</comment><comment><USER9> Why would I just use a webinar company? [http://banckle.com/pricing/meeting.html](http://banckle.com/pricing/meeting.html)

They have a $14/mo plan?

<comment><AUTHOR> We have used other webinar type sw in the past. For every user of webinar sw you can quickly find a story when a meeting was started late or users (connections) dropped out. Internally (read internal network) it works great but as soon as you have others included or someone who doesn't have the plugin installed issues arise.

PitchIt started out as an internal app to help us show our slides remotely while trying to sell a different app. After consecutive calls where clients only asked about what presentation software we were using and if it was for sale, PitchIt was born.

Our focus is on simplicity and the ability to respond to adhoc meetings and opportunities to "Pitch" your products. Your attendees must only click a link and they are in. No plugins to install and it doesn't require high bandwidth.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> The landing page looks so much better now, still the 3 images are a bit heavy and maybe distract the user (2 of them are very dark and the other one have a lot of colors). I would try another images

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, you are probably right. We have gone as far as we can ourselves and our next action would be to bring in a designer to help out. I am only pretending to know about colours.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> It's always ironic when a post about getting on the front page of HN, get's onto the front page of HN

</comment><comment><USER12> Don't forget to follow-up with a post on how "We did a Show HN" post did.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ha ha. I think the chain will end here. Besides the max title is 80 chars and the "We did a post about how our post about how our post ..." will fit!

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is all too postmodern.</comment>


Tyler Cowan and Glen Weyl on an ambitious plan to reopen America - <AUTHOR> https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/glen-weyl/ <comment><AUTHOR> A fascinating discussion on "How we reopen". Learn more here [https://ethics.harvard.edu/covid-roadmap](https://ethics.harvard.edu/covid- roadmap)

(Made my morning to see both these names pop up in the same notification when I woke up )</comment>


Compiling gcc 4.6.1 on Mac OSX Lion - <AUTHOR> http://solarianprogrammer.com/?p=187

<comment><USER2> $ sudo port install gcc46

(or just use Clang)</comment>


Need Help HN: Big time Focus/Attention problem - <AUTHOR>

Hi,
   I ma having a problem of Attention while working on small - small things. For example  - I write mail to people and do double check it sometime three or four time. Latter once I go back in my sent item and check again I found I did something wrong like spelling, Name or some grammar.
Same thing happens while reading stuff and miss read loads of words.
These kind of problem waste lots of time and some time its become humiliating.
I am quite frustrated now due to this problem which happens with me regular basis.
How can I Improve my condition? Please help. <comment><USER2> I believe that a common problem for people who are proof reading documents is the brains tendency to complete patterns based on partial information. This causes a person to read not what is actually written but instead what they expect to read.

For example, if you had seen the cliched sentence "The cat sat on the mat" tens of times over your lifetime then you might tend to skim ahead and miss the mistake in "The cat sat on the met."

One approach to reduce this problem is to consciously direct your attention in such a way as to reduce your own expectations. Some common tactics include:

1\. Take a break in between writing the text and editing it. The common advice for writing essays in school is to leave your draft shut up in a drawer for a few days before returning to it.

2\. Examine each word in the text in a way which separates it from the context of the sentence it is written in. You could do this by physically pointing at each word with a finger/pen as you read it, or by reading the text backwards from the last word to the first.

The above might increase your ability to spot a spelling mistake but will do little to assist whole-sentence grammatical mistakes. My best advice for that task is to read the text out loud. I find it much easier to hear such a mistake than to see it.

For the problems with reading you might wish to do some research on "active reading". Reading with a question in mind can help you to properly concentrate on the material.

The question might relate to a specific piece of information, eg skimming through a tutorial to discover "What arguments does the make_widget command take?"

The question could also be focused on the structure of the text, eg "What is the main idea of this paragraph?", "How could I rewrite this complicated sentence in my own words?", or "How does the evidence introduced in this paragraph relate to the claim stated at the beginning of the chapter?"

</comment><comment><USER3> Just reading this post, it just sounds like English is not your first language. The best advice I can give is to just not stress over it, us native English speakers can infer your grammar and spelling as an accent. We are pretty used to it these days with the internet and all. If you really want to polish it, maybe take some advanced English and writing classes, it seems like you have the basics.</comment>


Brython – A Python 3 implementation for client-side web programming - <AUTHOR> https://brython.info/ <comment><USER2> Javascript came a long way and despite its legacy quirks is actually quite enjoyable with ES6. We also added tons of good tooling (like TypeScript, React or Vue) to improve the web development experience.

While I still think, it would be nice to use a language that doesn't need 3 equal signs for sane comparisons, I wonder if Python with its strong whitespace to code-block correlation is actually a good choice for transmission and remote execution?

It definitely increases the size of transmitted code (tho probably by not so much because I think files are usually transmitted gzip compressed to modern browsers).

Are there other issues anyone can think of? It somehow gives me an uneasy feeling even tho technically a semicolon or repeated 0x20 don't make a difference except size.

<comment><USER3> White I agree with you about modern JS, using Python in the browser has a few advantages:

\- it can be the same language as the backend, that's a huge advantage (no need to change context, you can more easily have the team for backend and frontend)

\- if you use Python elsewhere (like it's my case for multi-frontends XMPP client), you can factorize the code

\- it's a really popular language, notably among scientists

\- I have no numbers, but I suspect that once the initial download is done and cached, Python code should be smaller than JS equivalent

\- there is a huge ecosystem (of course JS is even bigger, but the neat thing is that you can use both)

And probably other things I'm not thinking of right now.

<comment><USER4> > \- it can be the same language as the backend

This is already the case for Javascript :) Also you get much bigger collection of ready to use opensource libraries, and better performance.

<comment><USER5> > you get much bigger collection of ready to use opensource libraries,

bigger number, but that's because there is no (useful) standard library in JS. Datetime for example, there are loads of libs for that in JS, some of which are complete.

In python you just use the built in one. You bust out to a non standard lib when you want something fancy.

<comment><USER6> Like doing a http request asynchronously?

<comment><USER7> `import asyncio` is a standard part of Python.

`aiohttp` is a a 3rd party package if you want a more succinct expression of the same functionality.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> What is this monstrosity in the tutorial ?

>>> document <= 'Hello!' # write in the DOM

Since when the __le__ method has any side effects?

So to sum it up:

\- it runs inside the Javascript VM

\- you change the syntax by breaking the semantics

\- the import mechanisms is completely different

Is it still Python then ?

NB: Still, it's a fun project and hope you had fun making it.

<comment><USER9> Looks like the FAQ covers this question:

[https://brython.info/static_doc/en/faq.html](https://brython.info/static_doc/en/faq.html)

Quote:

Q: why use the operator <= to build the tree of DOM elements? This is not pythonic!

A: Python has no built-in structure to manipulate trees, ie to add "child" or "sibling" nodes to a tree node. For these operations, functions can be used; the syntax proposed by Brython is to use operators: this is easier to type (no parenthesis) and more readable

To add a sibling node, the operator + is used.

To add a child, the operator <= was chosen for these reasons:

* it has the shape of a left arrow; note that Python function annotations use a new operator -> that was chosen for its arrow shape

* it looks like an augmented assignment because of the equal sign

* it can't be confused with "lesser or equal" because a line with document <= elt would be a no-op if it was "lesser or equal", which is always used in a condition or as the return value of a function

* we are so used to interpret the 2 signs < and = as "lesser or equal" that we forget that they are a convention for programming languages, to replace the real sign ≤

* in Python, <= is used as an operator for sets with a different meaning than "lesser or equal"

* the sign < is often used in computer science to mean something else than "lesser than": in Python and many other languages, << means left shift; in HTML tags are enclosed with < and >

* Python uses the same operator % for very different operations: modulo and string formatting

<comment><USER10> Not at all a Python user, but I don't get how this is a valid argument at all:

> Python has no built-in structure to manipulate trees

What's wrong with an API like appendChild etc? I know you're just quoting the FAQ but if anyone has an answer I am legitimately curious. I have worked with Ruby for many years and loath cute DSLs but I always thought it was just the Ruby community that went overboard on that shit haha

<comment><USER11> > What's wrong with an API like appendChild etc?

Verbosity vs. fluency, given the application domain, I expect is the concern. I'd rather have fluent DSL separate from the basic language runtime, though, so that adopting it is a separate decision from using the runtime.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm not interested in Brython, mainly because the data model is from Javascript, not from Python.

In my opinion there are two "right" ways for Python in the browser: One would be a bytecode interpreter in Javascript (like the discontinued Batavia project), the other is porting CPython or PyPy to WASM (Pyodide).

Both gives you the full Python experience and potentially even full performance.

<comment><USER13> Agree. Another missfire (IMO) is Transcrypt, which is javascript using a python syntax. Total pain in the #$@! to use.

Also, there is a tiny python (micropython) that has been emscripted. I'm very interested to try this out sometime.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Active State browser plugin is back!

[http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/082201-1.shtml](http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/082201-1.shtml)

[http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/0735710902/samplechapt...](http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/0735710902/samplechapter/0735710902.pdf)

Little by little, all plugins will be back.

<comment><USER15> I'm surprised 4guysfromrolla is still up. I remember using their ASP and PHP tutorials in 2001...

<comment><USER16> Wow, yes. Their articles were super helpful when I was starting up with asp and sql around that time.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Would love to learn how Brython completes with Transcrypt ([https://www.transcrypt.org/](https://www.transcrypt.org/)) and PyJs ([http://pyjs.org/](http://pyjs.org/))

Is there a page for that?

<comment><USER3> Brython feels like a Python interpreter (it's actually transpiling to javascript with a thin compatibility layer, cf. [https://github.com/brython- dev/brython/wiki/How%20Brython%20...](https://github.com/brython- dev/brython/wiki/How%20Brython%20works)), you can use Python live in the browser, while Transcrypt transpile Python (or nearly Python, depending on what features you activate) to Javascript ahead of time (this can be achieved with Brython CLI too).

Brython has a better compatibility, but Transcrypt being pure javascript on the browser should be faster (I didn't made the comparison myself though). Both projects are complementary.

PyJS is a hostile fork (or I should say "hijack", but that's a long story) of Pyjamas, a Python 2 to Javascript compiler. I'm not sure where they are now, but at the time Pyjamas was Python 2 only and there was no plan to move it to Python 3 as this would mean a full rewrite of the transpiler.

It's pretty similar to Transcrypt except that it comes with a library which is a rewrite of GWT for Python. With that you end up writing web application in a similar way as you would do for desktop application. I've been using Pyjamas for years, it was working quite well (but you had to get used to some bugs/incompatibilities with Python, and I have not experienced that with Brython so far). About the library, while it seemed like a neat idea at the beginning, at the end it was an experience too distant from web developing, and meanwhile HTML and CSS improved a lot so it doesn't really makes sense anymore.

So from my experience :

\- you want real Python 3 and being able to use it dynamically (in a live console for instance) ==> Brython

\- you want something as fast as javascript with clean syntax of Python ==> Transcrypt

Both work well with JS libraries, Brython in addition re-implement most of Python standard API (but it's long to import, so it's often better to use JS libraries or native methods).

In addition, and really subjectively, I find the Brython community really nice, the main developer is reactive and kind.

Brython gives you real Python traceback, and you can even run pdb inside the browser (which will block your scripts) or an Inspector (a non blocking Python console) allowing to transfer objects between Python and Javascript for inspection in dev tools.

edit: corrected the initial statement, Brython feels like an interpreter, but it's actually transpiling, so you don't have such a big performance impact.

edit2: added that Brython can be compiled AOT from CLI too + precisions that I didn't compared with Transcrypt myself

<comment><USER18> I've been using Transcrypt for the last few months and am impressed at how well it integrates with JS libraries. But then that was done with intention in the design. I've been writing React+MaterialUI apps in Python and the resulting code actually still _looks_ like the Python I know and love. I did get pulled into the NPM/Parcel world for JS package management & minification, but the build step is relatively painless and Transcrypt has a Parcel bundler plug-in so there's no extra work involved to use it.

The fact that Transcrypt hasn't implemented the full standard library yet hasn't been much of an issue for me so far either. In the very few cases where I was missing something, I just pulled in a JS library in it's place (i.e. deepcopy).

While using Transcrypt this way requires you to understand the APIs of the JS libraries that you use, the code you actually write is 99% pure Python.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I came across this article [0] a few days ago that compares six different ways to run Python code in the browser.

It describes Brython as a Python-to-JavaScript compiler (as opposed to a Python interpreter written in JavaScript) that runs on page load.

[0] [https://anvil.works/blog/python-in-the-browser- talk](https://anvil.works/blog/python-in-the-browser-talk)

<comment><USER20> The following table from that article provides a nice overview:

[https://anvil.works/blog/img/python-in-the-browser- talk/comp...](https://anvil.works/blog/img/python-in-the-browser- talk/comparison-table.png)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Could you compile Python to Web Webassembly instead of JavaScript? Presumably that would have better performance.

<comment><USER19> Statically compiling dynamically-typed Python to statically-typed WebAssembly would be similar to how Nuitka [0] compiles Python to C. This compiled code may be a little faster than interpreted Python, but it's still going to be quite slow - much slower in a browser than JIT-compiled JavaScript.

AFAIK the ideal way to maximize the performance of Python in the browser would be to JIT-compile Python code to WebAssembly. Does anyone know whether WebAssembly implementations are able to support that?

[0] [http://nuitka.net/](http://nuitka.net/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Seems super interesting, but I'm afraid at how much of a performance impact this might have. Any benchmarks on that? I can't imagine interpreting Python in JS to be cheap.

EDIT: nevermind, they do make a comparison here: [https://brython.info/speed_results.html](https://brython.info/speed_results.html)

There _is_ a hit, but it doesn't seem too outrageous. Might be usable in simple webpages for people coming from Python that don't wish to learn an entire new language.

<comment><USER17> I assume there's CLI for compilation step?

<comment><USER3> AFAIK (Brython devs can correct if necessary) it's transpiled live and stored in indexedDB, so after first run it's already transpiler.

You can also transpile using CLI to have directly JS.

edit: it's indexedDB, not localStorage

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> The documentation could use some work - I have scoured the website and FAQ but still don't understand how this works. Does it compile into javascript, or it is a Python interpreter for the browser? What subset of python does it support? What about libraries?

I recently encountered Pyodide[1], which compiles to wasm. This seems more interesting/useful, because one can imagine running scientific computations (for which Python is a good choice) in the browser without much of a performance hit.

[1]: [https://github.com/iodide-project/pyodide](https://github.com/iodide- project/pyodide)

<comment><USER3> you can check [https://github.com/brython- dev/brython/wiki/How%20Brython%20...](https://github.com/brython- dev/brython/wiki/How%20Brython%20works)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> For the love of DOM, _why_ replace one dynamic language that is at least optimized for by the browser by another foreign one with an intermediate layer in between ?

<comment><USER25> Never underestimate the power of "But I already know lang X"

<comment><USER26> As well as "I already have code in lang X"

I'm hitting that at the moment with a moderately complex c# codebase that would be really useful to run natively in the browser.

Yeah - I could rewrite it but I'd much rather not.

<comment><USER27> Maybe Blazor[0] could be a good fit for you.

[0] -- [https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web- apps/blazor](https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor)

<comment><USER26> Yeah. I keep meaning to dig into Blazor but it seems overwhelming at first (especially because I'm mainly a C# dev due to Unity and a lot of the .NET jargon is foreign to me).

There seems to be more lightweight "c# to web-assembly" routes than might be worth investigating.

<comment><USER26> I think the complexity in Blazor might be a documentation issue. Every tutorial and quick start I can find assume you're knee deep in the ecosystem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I've looked into Brython and other "Python in the browser" implementations (transcrypt.org, pypyjs.org). It's fun! At a high level, the approaches are:

* Create a Python interpreter that is able to run Python code directly in the browser (PyPy.js, Brython)

* Transpile Python code into JavaScript and send that to the browser (Transcrypt, which also does a lot of tree shaking to keep the transpiled code efficient).

Here are the benefits, IMHO:

* Share helper code and class definitions across environments

* Most of the std lib, and a handful of popular 3rd party libs, are supported

* In the rare happy path, only have to think about one programming language.

The downsides are:

* Slow. For the "send an interpreter" approach (Brython, PyPy.js), the browser has to compile a whole compiler before moving on to running your code.

* Incompatibilities. For Brython and Transcrypt, C parts of the standard lib have to be re-written in Python for compatibility. So when you're importing something from the itertools package, it's actually a custom implementation like this: [https://github.com/brython-dev/brython/blob/master/www/src/L...](https://github.com/brython-dev/brython/blob/master/www/src/Lib/itertools.py). The custom code will not always be exactly compatible with the CPython implementation.

* Incompleteness. Some std libs aren't implemented, or are only partially implemented. 3rd party libs that rely on these will not work. Popular 3rd party libs like sklearn which get their power by wrapping C/Fortran libraries need custom wrappers that don't exist (AFAIK) yet.

* You still gotta JavaScript. Even in the best transpilation scenarios, things break and you have to figure out what the generated or interpreted code is doing. This is especially tough for Python in the browser tools, which aren't widely used, so have both undiscovered bugs and a lack of community support. In my experience, working in a transpiled codebase doesn't mean you have to learn one thing, but three: the source language, the target language, and the frankenstein monster of the logic/compromises bridging the two.

* Tooling. The ecosystem hasn't reached a critical mass to support tooling. It's unclear if there's enough excitement in the Python community to get it there.

With all that said, unless you're a true believer or just want to have a little fun (again, it is fun!), I wouldn't recommend this.

</comment><comment><USER29> From the GitHub Page [1]:

> Brython (Browser Python) is an implementation of Python 3 running in the > browser, with an interface to the DOM elements and events.

[1] [https://github.com/brython-dev/brython](https://github.com/brython- dev/brython)

</comment><comment><USER30> I always think these kinds of thing are cool in theory, but I feel like "the right tool for the job" is always more appropriate, and (for better or worse - right now) JavaScript is the right tool for the job.

I can only imagine (and shudder) starting to write a front-end app in Brython, coming up against an error and then not knowing where to turn. At least JS gives you the confidence of being able to Google / StackOverflow answers.

<comment><USER31> > JavaScript is the right tool for the job

Is it though? The fact that there are thousands of tools like this and whole web-assembly movement just might mean that Javascript really sucks at what it supposed to do.

<comment><USER30> Maybe, but at least there's a community around it is my point

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I implemented some scale scale webapp with it. At some point, it becomes way too slow.

It's a very cool project, which is only enabled by fast js engines, but the reality comes back hard: it's an interpreter, running on an interpreted language. I was never going to be fast.

I'm really forward to skilled people providing python though WASM. And not pyodide, which is more than just python.

<comment><USER33> > I'm really forward to skilled people providing python though WASM. And not > pyodide, which is more than just python.

I think pyodide builds numpy and scipy as separate packages, so the base distribution should be just python.

"Only the Python standard library and six are available after importing Pyodide."

[https://pyodide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/using_pyodide_from_...](https://pyodide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/using_pyodide_from_javascript.html#loading- packages)

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> So this is basically fengari but for python?

</comment><comment> mark-r I love having a Python REPL handy for short one-offs. Now with Brython I'll be able to have it on my Chromebook!

</comment><comment><USER35> Heh you can see from the performance page the Brython is definitely faster/slower than CPython:

[https://brython.info/speed_results.html](https://brython.info/speed_results.html)

I wonder what makes big integers 33 times slower/faster.

</comment><comment><USER36> This is a relatively recent talk that goes over the current ecosystem of Python on the client side:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMT1aImS9Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMT1aImS9Q)

</comment><comment><USER37> I'd adopt Rust for web before this. This is a solution nobody should desire imo.

</comment><comment><USER38> How does this compare to the wasm based approaches? (eg Pyodide)

<comment><USER32> Pyodide is a science-oriented suite, it's more than python. I haven't tried it, and it seems way too big, and seems too complex to build and/or use.

Brython provides some interfacing with the DOM, which is mandatory if it's replacing javascript.

<comment><USER38> Re using Pyodide outside the Jupyter stack, the documentation has some things about that: [https://pyodide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/using_pyodide_from_...](https://pyodide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/using_pyodide_from_javascript.html)

It seems easy to consume from the JS app POV, if you are using the builds from upstream.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Why not inline WASM for deployment but host human readable Python source in a URI? Accept liberal input languages but be conservative in the browser output.

</comment><comment><USER40> Now we just need a JVM implemented with Brython so we can build a WebAssembly interpreter in Java that runs JavaScript ... in the Browser!

<comment><USER14> Ask and you will be served,

[https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpx.html](https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpx.html)

[https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpj.html](https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpj.html)

<comment><USER41> Hi! I am CTO of LeaningTech and I designed these products. Feel free to drop me any question at [https://twitter.com/alexpignotti](https://twitter.com/alexpignotti)

<comment><USER42> Wow, you're doing some groundbreaking stuff!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> I will never understand why people think it's easier to use the same language across every domain.

<comment><USER44> I can throw out a couple of ideas. First, learning one language really well versus learning two languages really well -- that's an easy sell. Second, code reuse. If you think on it some, I am sure more ideas will come to you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> This might be the most significant contribution to frontend development in the past 28 years.

<comment><USER46> This is probably the least significant contribution.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> How would this compare with plotly dash?

</comment><comment><USER4> So now we can write web apps in one of most inappropriate languages for frontend development.

White space significant, good luck minifying it.

No anonymous functions, yes you need to have name for that callback, even though it's simply disabling a button.

Webpack does a great job of handling assets by simply importing/require them in the code. Python import system, can't support that kind of importing.

And of course there is the performance. Python is generally slower than JS, and then on top of that you are running Python interpreter in the JS VM.

<comment><USER31> > So now we can write web apps in one of most inappropriate languages for > frontend development.

Implying that javascript was ever appropriate.

> White space significant, good luck minifying it.

Just gzip it. Minifying is highly overrated to begin with.

> No anonymous functions, yes you need to have name for that callback, even > though it's simply disabling a button.

Lambdas are supported, what do you mean?

> Webpack does a great job of handling assets by simply importing/require them > in the code. Python import system, can't support that kind of importing.

What does this even mean?

<comment><USER48> > Implying that JavaScript was ever appropriate

Can we please stop doing the 4chan-esque snarky >implying ? It's not discussion in good faith.

> Minifying is highly overrated to begin with

Compression is not magic and minifying has real world performance gains in JS projects at least - I don't see how Python would be different here.

> Lambdas are supported

If you want to write your event handlers - which in UI programming is a lot of your code - in a point-free style, then I think you'll be letting yourself in for a lot of hassle.

> Webpack... What does this even mean?

I don't know Python too well, but I assume this is about the ability of Webpack to overload import semantics with non-code dependencies (e.g. importing stylesheets, icons, bits of JSON). Presumably Brython does not support this.

You seem quite bullish about the strengths of this project. Exactly what problems do you feel it solves? Assuming that we already have tooling like Webpack and are able to write in either ES2020 or TypeScript, what do you think we gain from writing our UI code in Python?

<comment><USER49> >Compression is not magic and minifying has real world performance gains in JS projects at least - I don't see how Python would be different here.

How much are the gains with minifying (factoring out compression) anyways? I'm sure they're somewhat faster, but enough to justify the step/obfuscation (assuming obfuscation isn't a goal)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> Er2

</comment><comment><USER51> Great, we're replacing a slow, dynamic, interpreted (sometimes JIT'd) language with another even slower!

 _A VM inside a VM._

Eventually people are going to write C# in browser? All NPM packages made available in Python and C#? All PyPI packages in browser?

Active X plugins are back people!

<comment><USER52> >> write c# in browser

It is happening but with WebAssembly.

[https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web- apps/blazor](https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor)</comment></comment>


The Fry's Era - <AUTHOR> https://mondaynote.com/the-frys-era-8709a7e602eb <comment><USER3> I was in San Jose, and visited their store there (Which I believe is also their headquarters / central distribution point), and it was just sad. The CPU section / MB was completely bare. I hadn't heard of what was going on, so I assumed that they were revamping the area or something.

That said, I am not sure we can put the blame only on Amazon. I was in Microcenter the day after, and it was stupid busy - took 30 minutes to check out and was packed to gills. They crammed all of the good stuff of Frys into a much smaller space - mostly focused around PC electronics.

<comment><USER4> Microcenter is a great counterexample. The one here in Denver is always full of customers, and it's stuffed with all manner of computer parts, hobby electronics, and so on. It's how I too remember Fry's being back in the day.

I don't really understand how Microcenter does it, but they often have equal or better prices than Amazon, and in any case, they'll price-match. Also, there's no worry about whatever I buy turning out to be counterfeit.

The one slightly odd thing about the Microcenter experience is how all of the salespeople have little stickers to take credit for when they help a customer find something. Are they on commission? Is this Microcenter's way of identifying the most useful floor staff? They're never pushy about it, but it does stand out in stark contrast to pretty much every other retail shop I can think of.

<comment><USER5> Fry's have always had the stigma that they hired unknowledgeable floor staff. If you knew what you were after you were fine. On the non technical side, half the time the staff didn't know where to find items and would take you on wild goose chases.

The stock was better than Microcrocenter or Central Computers (when they were relevant), and their sandwiches weren't held bad. But the floor staff and that stupid thing where they have people at the exits pretend to check receipts on the purchase side. On the return side it was just awful. Today in age their return policies are just bad. On some items they have restocking fees.

<comment><USER6> If you ever do visit a Fry's again, the trick for that "let me check your receipt and mark it with a pink sharpie" person is to just smile and walk right by. They won't stop you or question you, because they have been trained that it would be unlawful to do so. They can _ask_ to see your receipt and check it, but they can't _demand_ it.

More than once there has been a line of a half dozen people at the pink sharpie exit, and I've just walked on by, much to the amazement of the people waiting in line.

Note: I'm talking about Fry's, not Costco. I'm told Costco is different because it's a membership club and you have to agree to their terms and conditions to shop there. (I'm also told that even Costco can't _demand_ to see your receipt, but they can cancel your membership if you don't show it.)

<comment><USER7> >even Costco can't demand to see your receipt, but they can cancel your membership if you don't show it

How does Costco figure out which membership to cancel? Surely they don't detain you if you refuse to show your receipt.

<comment><USER8> Pretty quick to watch the tapes and see what register you bought from. You have to scan membership id at checkout, so then seeing whos membership was used is simple.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Not mentioned in the post: Fry's web presence has always been terrible. Absolutely, hopelessly, utterly terrible. A lot of people in this thread have brought up MicroCenter as a strong counter-example--I'd also throw Best Buy into that mix. Different product line at Best Buy; but, if you look at the web presence, these companies are doing great with Buy-Online-Pickup-In-Store. I often use Best Buy for items that I can't (or just don't want to) wait for even the 2-day shipping from Amazon.

I cannot recall a single time that I was able to find what I was looking for on the Fry's website--including many times I was able to walk into the store and find an item sitting on the shelf. That was even 10-15 years ago and it never improved.

There are a whole lot of reasons that Fry's is on its death-bed; their clear lack of commitment to a strong web presence to drive instant-gratification shopping is an important lesson for other brick-and-mortar retailers.

<comment><USER10> Frys purchased outpost.com which was based on 90s tech. I believe their ordering system was called MACS. They never maintained the site.

<comment><USER9> Yep--I remember that, for a very long time, trying to go to Frys.com would simply redirect you Outpost.com. Even when they changed that, it went on for several more years that if you went to frys.com you would find yourself on the Outpost.com site with the logo replaced with a Fry's logo. The online selection was useless. It had little to no understanding of local store inventory. But the worst part was that the search function just fundamentally didn't work. You could type the exact model of a part into the search and it would give you random, unrelated things and not give you the part itself.

<comment><USER11> The Frys.com search is still terrible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I built a PC once from parts that I bought at Fry's. It was a really fun experience going down to store, seeing what parts were on sale, chatting with a no-nonsense saleswoman, walking out with a big shopping cart full of PC components, and assembling it and booting it up that same day.

Some quirks of shopping at Fry's that I remember:

* The sales associates always insisting on printing me out a fairly meaningless "quote" that matched the sticker on the shelf, and having me present it at the register. I'm not sure if their sales commissions were tied to printing out quotes, or if it was intended to prevent pricing mistakes, but any interaction with a sales person always resulted in a quote.

* Watching people at the returns counter navigate through their completely arcane computer system (a text-based "green screen" in the age of the iPhone) with surprising grace.

* Perhaps the least atmospheric cafe ever built, placed smack dab in the _middle_ of the store with no windows to the outside world or natural lighting. I don't think I ever saw anybody eating there.

* The loud background music that would play... some kind of (classical?) solo piano music that didn't fit either the Western theme or the general feel of the store. Between the lighting and the music I always left the store with a headache

Despite some of the negatives above, I always really enjoyed shopping at Fry's and would try to buy things there whenever I had the chance. What eventually ruined Fry's for me though was just the lack of inventory. I would want to buy something and Newegg or Amazon would have it in stock, but Fry's wouldn't. A couple times their website would even list an item as being in stock, and I would brave the 101 traffic to drive down to Palo Alto only to find it was actually sold out. I also eventually switched to using mostly Apple products, which offer fewer choices, are harder to tinker with, and are priced pretty consistently across all retail outlets (with the exception of Microcenter who used to run some pretty decent in-store-only sales on MacBooks before their Santa Clara store closed down).

<comment><USER6> The "quote" was always about getting a commission.

When I used to shop at Fry's, if I knew the product I wanted I made it a game to avoid getting a time-wasting "quote". I would avoid making eye contact with any salesperson, grab the product I wanted, and make a mad dash out of that aisle.

Of course even if you got a "quote" you could crumple it up and just go to the register with your product. It would be the same price to you either way.

One time I picked out a $20 camera case without any help from a salesperson - I didn't need a discussion of the features of each case, I had my camera with me and just wanted to try them out to see which one I liked that fit the camera!

When I started to walk away with my choice, the salesperson flagged me down and insisted that I needed a quote. And then they wrapped it around the case and taped it down on all sides!

At that point I didn't have the heart to tear the quote off the case and deny them their fifty cent commission.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I've built clone PCs since the early 80's, and worked at Egghead Software in San Jose as an assistant manager in high school. I remember the Fry's grocery store and the original Sunnyvale Fry's way back and the multitude of independent shops, WeirdStuff Warehouse, MicroCenter, Central Computer, JDR Microdevices, Pixel USA (did a lot of business with Tony). There were a zillion independent shops' ads listed in _Computer Shopper_ (it was a good 1.5" / 4 cm thick).

CompUSA (a big, hypermart-style tech and electronics retailer) came in and killed Egghead (the shops were just too small to compete) and most other mom & pop's; I was there at the closing firesale. And later Comp USA also succumbed. Fry's was more of a pseudo-flea-market with cheezy looking price signs, and full-page ads in the San Jose Mercury News... their big draw was the Black Friday deals where people line up like people line up at Walmart.

Nowadays: NewEgg, PriceWatch.com, FindChips, OctoPart, Halted (HSC), AliExpress, eBay, Amazon

If you want to save some money, bargains can also be had traveling to a certain building or two in Shenzhen / Huaqiangbei; and it helps to have a friend who speaks fluent Mandarin. See also:

\- [https://strangeparts.com](https://strangeparts.com)

\- [https://youtu.be/sZs4NDC4yrI](https://youtu.be/sZs4NDC4yrI)

\- [https://youtu.be/tUXIzJpjEuU](https://youtu.be/tUXIzJpjEuU)

PS: The Fry's pictured in the story is the Campbell location where it was fun to run up/down the flat "escalator" as it was like an airport's people-mover, but much bouncier.

<comment><USER14> Fry's is still a grocery chain in Arizona, though now it's indistinguishable from any other Kroger's brand.

Weird Stuff, I miss you.

My Fry's was the Palo Alto store, the truck painted with the Fry's logo parked at that parking lot on El Camino Real showing when to go.

<comment><USER15> I wonder where did all the weird stuff in Weird Stuff end up. Haven't visited the Valley since their demise was announced. I'd probably find a way to go pick up an IBM Selectric and a couple RS-232 terminals. You never know when you'll need those.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> > ...he opened a safe in his office and showed his collection of original > letters from Georg Ohm to Einstein

My bullshit detector immediately went off :) How could Ohm (1789–1854) write letters to Einstein (1879–1955)?

<comment><USER17> "[covering the gamut from] George Ohm to Einstein" perhaps?

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> As a counter to this, my local Micro Center is absolutely booming. I built a fast gaming machine earlier this year, and found all of my desired components in-stock there, with no compromises. Their prices were identical to the lowest prices online, and they offer price match anyway. All of my Ubiquiti stuff I got there as well. They have an expanding hobbyist electronics section that consumed the old physical software/gaming space. They have other great hobbyist stuff like retro gaming and drones. I've just taken it for granted, not realizing that many people consider Micro Center a PC builder "Mecca".[0]

[0] [https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=micro+center&...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=micro+center&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all)

<comment><USER19> Where?

<comment><USER18> Fairfax County, VA.

<comment><USER20> I shop at the other DC area MicroCenter, in Rockville, and have had similar positive experiences. It's the closest thing I know of to the Fry's shopping experiences I had in the late 90s when I lived in the SF Bay Area. The biggest difference between the Rockville MicroCenter and the Fairfax one is that Rockville has more stuff locked up for theft control.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I went to the Fry's in Austin a few nights ago and knew something was up when the parking lot only had 10 cars in it. Normally there's 50+. Walking into the store was eerie - no one inside, no one in line. The shelves, especially in the computer section, were totally empty. Where they once had stacks of graphics cards, they had nothing. They had a couple desktops and a few high end monitors. The TV section was similar, a few high end big (75" and more) TV's and empty shelves. When I asked an employee what happened they said the trade war in China. (Not believable cause Sony and Samsung are not Chinese) Kind of sad, it was always a fun 1-2 hours every time I went there.

<comment><USER22> I had the same experience just a couple of weeks ago. Even the center aisle where they used to keep the baskets of miscellaneous cheap stuff was empty.

At least it's only 3 hours to Micro Center.

<comment><USER23> Love the DFW Microcenter, always seem to find some discounted item there for cheap when I go.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Another thing that happened is that not as many folks build their own computers. It used to be a rite of passage to build your own gaming rig, and your own linux servers.

Fry's was indispensable because out of the ten to twenty parts that went into your machine, one would invariably be a dud. If you ordered on Newegg you'd have to wait for returns, wait for delivery, etc. At least this particular system-builder turned to Fry's because turnaround was so quick with a physical storefront.

<comment><USER25> I knew Fry's by reputation but they weren't nearby. I used to drive to [http://www.infotechnow.com/](http://www.infotechnow.com/) because they would POST new CPUs and mobos at the counter. Got my first SMP app server (two Durons!) for a startup from there and squeezed it into the server room (AKA founder's guest house coat closet, where the DSL terminated).

But now we'd rent instances instead of buying on-prem hardware only to get rid of when the company either dies (and no longer needs it) or lives (and outgrows it). Which makes two ways Amazon outran Fry's.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> This store has changed a lot. A friend and I visited the Fry's on Lawrence Expressway back in the late 80's. Across the street from WeirdStuff.

I'd never seen anything like the selection of stuff. We bought several 256-bit memory modules and a six pack of soda. It carried the biggest and only selection of electronics components and equipment/supplies for assembly/testing I'd ever seen. It also had candy and sodas. That was about it.

A few years later I visited again and couldn't believe: (a) how big it had become; and (b) how many finished products it was selling.

<comment> mark-r I wonder if that was the same one I went to for the first time back in the 80's? I was kind of blown away by a store that both chips (potato) and chips (silicon).

<comment><USER27> The very first Fry's was at 541 Lakeside Drive in Sunnyvale, on the east side of Lawrence Expy. Sometime around late 1990 that store moved to 1177 Kern Ave in Sunnyvale, and then by the late '90s moved again to the current location at 1077 E. Arques.

The second store to open was in Fremont (though not at the Fremont store's current location), and the third was the Palo Alto (at the current location).

Source: I worked some summer jobs at the Lakeside Dr. store in the late '80s.

<comment><USER19> Wasn't the Lakeside store a converted Fry's grocery store?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Fry's took nerd mecca from Radio Shack. I have ... memories...

1\. Arguing with an employee over signal loss over different types of antenna connectors after I had just installed and analyzed my umpteenth outdoor network. He insisted I was full of shit.

2\. Seeing (who I believe to be) Linus Torvalds in a BMW. I had a minor _fan moment_ , girlfriend was like "who's that".

3\. Being treated like a potential thief every single time.

4\. My two year old having a melt down in one of the isles because dad had been geeking out for too long and it was way past nap/snack time.

<comment><USER29> Sound like the one time my dad and I, who where Whiterock Networks employees at the time, overheard some misinformation about about some wifi router, and we interjected and the sales kid was saying we were wrong.

<comment><USER30> When I came from Europe (~ 2000) for an interview, the hiring manager took me to Fry's to impress me (something like "you seem like the type who'd appreciate this" \-- I did).

One very Silicon Valley story he related was a guy correcting a sales guy (or shopper?) with the words "No! I know because I designed it!"

We asked for about something and the sales assistance gave useful information -- to which my manager quietly added after he left "He won't be here next week ... he will have found a better job". The job market was really good.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Fry's looks essentially done in Renton, WA. Little to no new inventory in months, many bare shelves, lots of shelf space filled-in with cheap goods (I saw 30 linear feet of crepe paper, I guess it was cheap or they found a supplier who fronted them merchandise). For some reason they added gardening and lawn maintenance equipment (shovels, rakes and hoses . . . because I always think of Fry's when I think of yard work /snark).

I've been going to Fry's since the early 80s, when they were a supermarket that had started carrying computer stuff. It was a place to take out-of-town visitors, especially for the first couple of themed Fry's.

It's never been a really great place to actually buy stuff; you had to be careful that what you chose from the shelf wasn't returned and repackaged, for one thing. For a while you couldn't buy a laptop from them and take immediately delivery, they had to "test" new machines, and I remember telling them that _I_ would let them know if a serial port was bad, and to get their mitts off of my hardware.

They no longer check receipts at the door in Renton. This truly is the end times.

<comment><USER32> For the Sunnyvale store, I knew it was a bad sign when they had a perfume isle.

Part of it is several types of media used to take a bunch of shelf space but is now sold digitally. In the late 90's and early 2000's there were two whole isles of PC games, plus isles for consoles. Now in the world of Steam, there is half of one side of an isle. It is a similar story with PC software, music, and video.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> They say it's Amazon that killed Fry's. Maybe, to a measure, but also not. One thing Amazon can't do is human contact. When I first came to Fry's, sometime in 2000s, attracted by its still living image of a store for geeks, and tried to ask for a finer details of this and that camera and this and that laptop - both available on Amazon, but I needed some help figuring out which one I want, and if they helped me I'd buy one there and then, even if it would be slightly more expensive, because only thing that beats 2-day delivery is 0-second delivery, I already hold it in my hands!

But most that I got from the local store workers is "huh, I'm not sure, let me check the manual" and "well, this says it has got these specs, and that one got those specs, and the price is different, so that's the difference". Thanks, helpful workers, I can read too, I was looking for something that isn't in the label directly in front of my face. Looks like you're not paid enough to care.

There are only three things that brick-and-mortar retailers can compete with Amazon and other online shops now - being able to physically touch the merchandize before buying, being able to get it immediately and being able to talk to a human that can answer questions and provide advice. Unfortunately, it looks like the majority of retailers still do not realize this, especially the last one. Maybe they just don't have the money to hire somebody who would know and care - but in this case there's no reason to prolong their suffering by shopping there, just let them die and release the real estate for more productive uses. I, however, while being an extreme introvert, would still would like to have some stores where I can talk to a knowledgeable human. And yes, I'd pay a reasonable money for it, if only there would be somebody who wants to earn it.

<comment><USER34> You might want that. And I do too. But that doesn't mean there's actually a profitable market in 2019 for what you're seeking.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> I moved to the Bay Area in 2006. I'm now appreciative that I got to experience things like Weird Stuff Warehouse, Fry's, the Electronics Flea Market, and a less than booming tech scene. Someone I work with who's been in tech longer commented that now there's a lot of people just going into it for the money. Before, maybe even in the 90's, people went into it because of a passion for technology, and all these things popped up to support it.

</comment><comment><USER36> A good example of the decline are these two pictures seven years apart that documents the recordable media section of the Phoenix area Fry's.

[https://photos.app.goo.gl/hNzNhmX9TTSnCaqPA](https://photos.app.goo.gl/hNzNhmX9TTSnCaqPA)

<comment><USER6> I just have a little house, but I have hundreds of blank CD-R and DVD-R- whatever discs that I will never use.

Does anyone want them?

<comment><USER37> Yeah, I mean I burn stuff to disc all the time. Mostly Blu-Rays, but DVDs and CDs for smaller content.

Tip: use dvdisaster when recording to fill up the empty space on the iso file for error-correction later, and time and date-stamp the disc so you know when to reburn it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Surprised there is no mention here about the physical state of the products at Frys - I stopped going back around 2005 because I was burned too many times by resealed boxes that where obviously returns and missed basic things like power cables.

<comment><USER35> "Returns."

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Oh that return policy.

When I was working at a startup in the early 90's, we decided we needed to max out memory for a demo to a big potential customer. They sent me to Fry's in Palo Alto to get the module.

After the demo -- boss decided it was too expensive and I needed to return it. Slightly horrified (although I think the module was a couple thousand 1994 dollars and we were... bootstrapped) I went back.

"What's wrong with the product?" "Um... wrong color?"

And they did the refund.

</comment><comment><USER40> Brick and mortal shops for almost all categories of goods will have a hard time competing with the breadth of products, convenience and the price that web shops will be able to offer.

The consequences of this, together with the rise of remote work will most probably affect the process of urbanization itself to the extent that it will even have a 'revolution' name of its own, like the preceding 'agricultural', ' industrial', 'internet' etc.

</comment><comment><USER41> I've had some issues with my router lately (an aging Mikrotik 802.11n box whose mediocre wireless performance is in play now that on of our main PCs has been switched to wireless). It's time; the damn things bake themselves to death every few years regardless of brand, firmware, etc. Was looking at one of the $50-60 TP-Link 802.11ac jobs.

I figured I'd check Fry's since they've started advertising "Local same-day delivery for $3" when the best Amazon can do for a lot of stuff is $13 for two-day delivery. Plus, I honestly hate dealing with Amazon and their six- times-a-week solicitation for "Prime Student" considering I graduated 15+ years ago. This would not be a hard sale for them to win. They sell the right type of goods, tyhey have the infrastructure to deliver it to me as fast as the competition, and the listed prices weren't wildly out of line with online dealers.

They didn't have the router I wanted. Hell, expanding the search to a generic "AC1200 router" revealed well more than half of the items as "out of stock for pickup/local delivery; we'll mail it to you in a week.". A few had "same-day delivery for $70" (maybe this is some weird surge pricing from the firm they contracy same-day delivery to?) It wasn't even obviously a bait-and-switch play (where the $50 units are out of stock so you'll buy the $150 ones)-- both cheap and expensive gear had hugely erratic stocking.

It almost felt like they were trying to pivot from a retail place where the web storefront was a way to reserve or order local-delivery of retail stocked goods, towards a conventional mail-order house. Seeing the 200 "order now for dispatch Monday" buttons doesn't look weird on Newegg because it's not being contrasted with big red "Not available for pickup at City, ST", but here it looks sad.

</comment><comment><USER42> The Palo Alto Fry's electronics was the first Fry's electronics that I ever stepped foot into...and I was mesmerized. They had everything that I could have ever really wanted -- oscilloscopes, meters, computer goodies, and a wide array of electronic components.

I made a "traffic light" for our cruise control (powered by the parallel port) that sat in my cube when I wasn't in the office (I worked from home 3 weeks out of the month) that stayed in that cube until I left CollabNet in 2010...

I'll never forget that first feeling that I was in my own little heaven when I stepped into that Fry's, and even after being to a few Fry's near me -- Atlanta and Indianapolis -- and seeing them in their current state, it's a little bit sad.

It makes me wish that they could still be as relevant today as they were when I first saw them, but, I understand that retail changes.

</comment><comment><USER43> Fry's always brings one story to mind for me. I used to work for a video game studio that was around the corner from a Fry's. So, we made frequent visits on our lunch breaks. I don't recall what the item was, but a coworker had purchased some electronic device of about $300. Probably an HD-DVD player or something based on the time. He ended up returning the item, but they would only give him store credit. So, he took a shopping cart to the electronic components aisle and proceeded to fill it with $300 worth of 5 and 10 cent resistors and other items. Went to checkout to spend his store credit. Then immediately went back to customer service to return his items. At that point, they decided they could make and exception and give him cash back!

</comment><comment><USER44> I went to their Palo Alto store after being told by my Uber driver that it's like an amusement park for techies. What I saw, however, is exactly like what the article described - empty shelves, almost no customers, staff who had little knowledge of the products they were selling. The store is like its Western themed decors - a fading glory.

</comment><comment><USER45> Blaming it all on Amazon feels a bit quick. Silicon valley has grown insanely in economic strength and purchasing power; with Arduino, Raspberry Pi, drones, VR, 3D printing etc, plenty of folks in that area still like to toy around with new technology, hobbyist style, and now have no place to go satisfy their retail urge. I went to Fry's hoping to purchase hobbyist components which it turns out they didn't have; the level of knowledge from staff was dismal. I heard of someone who went to Fry's expecting to find a USB micro cable - <USER2> that relatively standard if aged connector cable wasn't in stock. There has to be a thought to the business's strategic management before declaring it by default as "killed by Amazon"

</comment><comment><USER46> The last several times I went into Fry's in palo-alto I was accosted by aggressive comcast salesmen.

It made the experience significantly less enjoyable. For me, personally I can't say that amazon replaced frys-- after all I was already purchasing many of the things I'd go to frys for via newegg for many years before. Fry's was a go to for things I didn't care to wait for shipping, for oddities found browsing, and things low enough in value to not be worth shipping.

I'm typing this on a computer I purchased at that store, in fact. But with experiences like the comcast sales people I would have said that it would have likely been the last even before hearing that the store would be closing.

</comment><comment><USER47> What are good places to buy electronic components now?

<comment><USER48> Anchor Electronics on Walsh near Nvidia. I haven't gone in a while though. Sadly Halted is gone. As is Wierd Stuff.

<comment><USER49> Much of Halted's inventory wound up at Excess Solutions, definitely worth dropping in on.

But I still miss Weird Stuff, and I was just a bit too far out of the loop to get there before they closed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> Every single trip I've made out to Silicon Valley has always included a visit to Fry's. Because it's every couple of years you'd think I'd see the changes but I haven't.

Bought my last laptop at MicroCenter in Detroit. It's the best there is in Michigan, but sorry it doesn't even compare to Fry's.

I do miss Computer Literacy bookstore and it's demise is definitely accountable to Amazon. BeOS was pretty damned cool but Jean-Louis do you ever wonder what would have happened if you'd ever taken his offer and created Fry's of France?

<comment><USER49> It didn't help that Barnes and Noble bought Computer Literacy and seemingly had no idea what to do with it.

<comment><USER50> If Fry's really has all that open space perhaps they ought to drop a bookstore along the likes of Computer Literacy into their existing stores?

They're already carrying some books and magazines. The only reason I can think of them not doing it is because the margins would be lower.

<comment><USER49> Even if they wanted to they have no money/credit to order much of anything...

I was at Oxnard Fry's yesterday and their magazine selection was at best 20-25% of the shelf. And there were only two network switches in that whole section... :(

<comment><USER51> The Oxnard store is just sad. We were very fortunate to get one, and then everything went downhill.

And the farm theme sucks. I liked the Alice and Wonderland theme at the Woodland Hills one I used to shop at before the Oxnard one opened.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> With the end of cheap international shipping from China via USPS looming on the horizon, I wonder if we'll start to see a resurgence in specialty electronic stores like Fry's.

<comment><USER53> That may affect people buying onesey twosey bits off AliExpress, but that stuff is still available on amazon from resellers who buy and ship it stateside to a fulfillment warehouse in bulk.

<comment><USER52> Yeah, now that I think about it I suppose it is natural for businesses to find ways to minimize those types of costs. I guess part of me doesn't want to see Fry's become another Radio Shack.

<comment><USER54> I think Fry's is more likely to turn into a bunch of 5 story podium-style apartments and condos.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> Fry's in Renton is still a great place to get stuff same day. Lots of parts available and the employees generally know their stuff. Many of them have been there several years since I started going there. Just be sure to online price match with Amazon direct only.

Micro center was insanely over price when I went a few times in St. Louis in June. Like $70 keyboard for $147. Razor chroma ($140 elsewhere) for $240. I basically cut my prices in half on several trips just price matching.

<comment><USER56> When did you last visit the Fry's in Renton? I was there yesterday and it's pretty grim. Here's a description from one of the employees: [https://frysforum.com/discussion/5261/my-store-is-going- down...](https://frysforum.com/discussion/5261/my-store-is-going-down-fast- heres-what-its-like/#Item_1)

<comment><USER55> like 1.5 months ago. They had really cut down on the number of tellers was the main thing I had seen.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> I went to a Fry's recently to buy some breadboards and simple chips and was pretty surprised to how hollow (the article's choice of word is totally right) they've become. I was surprised at first, but then realized it really made a lot of sense given how commerce has changed. Seeing it gave me a sad childhood nostalgia I never expected when going to an electronics store. I guess change really is the only constant.

<comment><USER58> Fry's is the new Radio Shack.

I felt the same nostalgia when Radio Shack started folding up, but then I went to one of the stores and realized they'd become a hollow shell of their former greatness - just hawking cell phones. Just as Radio Shack couldn't compete with Amazon, neither can Fry's.

We're going to have the same nostalgia about Best Buy when that shoe drops. I was in a Best Buy recently when I forgot my headphones on a trip, and I was dumbfounded at how bad the gear was. It's less about good gear now, and more about Beats headphones and gold-plated cables. The writing's on the wall.

<comment><USER59> Best buy was much worse off a few years ago. The company and the stores are in much better shape these days, they hired a CEO that did many improvements.

<comment><USER60> I agree. It seems like BestBuy is really adapting to the changing market. Then when you couple online purchasing with in store pickup, it seems like they might just make it.

I think the parent comment about headphones isn't a BestBuy problem — its a universal headphone problem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> Wow, this takes me back to the era of building my own machine. I had an old clunker of S478 Celeron eMachines and upgraded the motherboard, case and video card. I still remember getting a great Black Friday deal on a Nvidia 5900SE at an otherwise barren CompUSA and finally being able to play almost any game in 2005 that I wanted to with what amounted to a $220 upgrade. Good times.

</comment><comment><USER62> I was a heavy buyer at Frys until Amazon got really good. Especially these days, when a NAS drive fails, I can order one and it comes in one day. I once bought a video card and found out it was bad on Saturday. That evening I ordered an exchange on Amazon and on Sunday morning it came before I even got out of bed.

Frankly Amazon is so much better than Frys in so many ways.

<comment><USER63> > Amazon got really good. Especially these days, when a NAS drive fails, I can > order one and it comes in one day.

Amazon is on my never buy spinning drives list until I have evidence that they will pack them appropriately and not just toss the manufacturer's box inside a much larger box with maybe two air pillows so the drive can slosh around.

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> There were some rumors a few weeks ago about whether Fry's was going to close for good in the next few months (unrelated to the lease ending at the Palo Alto store).

I think the instigator was this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgzDiMp4uY0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgzDiMp4uY0)

</comment><comment><USER65> Loved Frys when i lived near one. When we moved, i tried to order parts online. It was pittiful. Their sakes didn't apply to online and not all stock was available to be delivered or sold online. They were completely blind to the online insurgence and get what they deserve. They're the Sears of tech parts.

<comment><USER35> They really dropped the ball on e-commerce with outpost.com and frys.com being entirely separate. They eventually fixed this, but it was too late.

</comment></comment><comment> 52-6F-62 That was a fun read. Kind of nostalgic and jealous. I dreamed of places like that as a kid in rural Ontario. The closest we had was some receding Radio Shack that carried a small selection of parts and had 0 knowledge or enthusiasm for any of it. Back home even that is gone now.

</comment><comment><USER66> The trend varies. We have one Fry's location and two MicroCenter stores in the Chicago area. All of these stores seem to be doing well. They are the only places to walk in and buy motherboards, CPU's, GPU's, etc. and people here take advantage of that.

</comment><comment><USER67> I grew up in Canada in the 80s. Moving to Germany a few years ago I discovered Conrad. It's like stepping into another dimension where the RadioShack from my youth is alive and well...

</comment><comment><USER68> Fry's is a sad story, but not remotely as tragic as what has become of RadioShack.

<comment><USER34> Isn't RadioShack completely dead? Its name and brand were sold of for chump change a few years ago. Anything after that isn't actual RadioShack. Or is that what you meant by "become"! That they completely died out.

<comment><USER68> Yep. It's dead. It died a long time ago though, before it went belly up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> Thee Fry's in Austin is empty. Rumor has it that haven't paid rent for awhile too. I really want them to succeed. So much of my interest in electronics and computing started there staring at components.

</comment><comment><USER70> I was just wondering the other day, how Frys can still have such large stores in the Bay Area.</comment>


Ask HN: Discussion on the future of the WWW (and Tent, Bitcoin, etc) - <AUTHOR>

Hey. So I read the posts here on HN fairly often (I have not posted an awful lot).
Lately, I have been interested in some new projects like Tent.io, OSatus, App.net, Bitcoin, Tor and ones related to quantified-self, privacy, easy registrations (Persona), semantic web.
It got me thinking about the future of the World Wide Web and maybe how it could be improved. I thought that maybe something new could be built that would improve on the current system by taking all the things I just mentioned into consideration since many are related or would be improved if they could easily communicate. When the WWW was first built many of the ways we are currently using it were not imagined, so I am interested in hearing ideas of how it could be improved if we were given the opportunity to 're-imagine' it.
I wrote some of my thoughts out in this post: http://jonovono.github.com/Wpp/.
I love the awesome discussions on here. And thought some interesting things could come out if we just had a general discussion on the Web/internet and anything related.
If you are interested in discussing this further, please email me: firstname.lastname@example.com. I would like to explore this further and hope to hear your comments! <comment><AUTHOR> Link to my 'article': <http://jonovono.github.com/Wpp/>

</comment><comment><USER2> mobile</comment>


Puerto Rico Tax Incentives for Startups and Freelancers - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@peignoir/puerto-rico-just-became-a-new-startup-and-freelancer-eldorado-8e579909581d <comment><USER2> Do they really believe that our memories are that short? One of the main reasons for the most recent financial crisis in PR was due to section 936 of the US Tax code.

Take a read of the most recent crisis: [https://taxfoundation.org/tax-policy- helped-create-puerto-ri...](https://taxfoundation.org/tax-policy-helped- create-puerto-rico-s-fiscal-crisis/)

United States General Accounting Office Report to the Chairman, Committee on Finance, TAX POLICY Puerto Rico and the Section 936 Tax Credit [http://www.gao.gov/assets/220/218131.pdf](http://www.gao.gov/assets/220/218131.pdf)

<comment><USER3> I think the reason wasn't section 936. The reason was more the local government not putting to good use any of the benefits from either the bonds or local companies setting up.

Instead of using those funds to improve education, technical training, create buildings/projects that made sense in the distant future where funds/companies would not be so incentivized to stay here. They went and started building pointless infrastructure projects with arguably benefits or ROI almost always with some sort of controversy on the project builder/developer intentions.

Building statues, pointless sports venues, really expensive projects with zero to marginal benefits to society/Puerto Rico's economy long term.

<comment><USER2> Agree that they were not the most prudent financial managers, my point was as soon as they changed the tax code; there was a 10 year window to sunset it and almost all of the companies left which really decimated the economy where jobs just vanished as they were moved back onshore and satellite offices closed.

<comment><USER4> You're right, many companies left after they 936 decrees expired, but they weren't cancelled right away when the Congress changed the tax code and got rid of section 936. Same with Act 20 and 22, once they are signed, you're good to go for 20 years, even if the laws change in the future.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Wonderful to see people reinventing taxation from the first principles: "awesome country to live in, with great education and social security, but these are expensive countries, from a Tax perspective"

</comment><comment><USER6> Do tax incentives really work over the long term? Some quick searching via Google seem to bring up some negative answers but my search term could be biased ("do tax incentives really work?") and only lead me to answers that backup my question. I'm just curious to know if Tax Incentives actually do work for any city or state. Weren't tax breaks (or the removal of) part of the problem that got P.R. into their current situation?

<comment><USER7> What is your definition of "really work"? Georgia started its tax incentives for Film/Television in 2005 and now it's the third largest film/tv industry in the nation behind California and NY. It's also propped up tourist economies as a secondary effect where people want to go to places where things were filmed. Georgia legislators would probably argue that the incentives there work.

[] [http://www.adweek.com/tv-video/how-atlanta-became-the- worlds...](http://www.adweek.com/tv-video/how-atlanta-became-the-worlds- fastest-growing-film-and-tv-destination/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Act 20 applies to any company/freelancer that exports services from PR,the condition to have lived outside of the island doesn't apply here. And the government just changed the job requirement, so you don't have to hire 5 people anymore, making it available to companies with fewer employees and freelancers.

<comment><USER3> This would mean that as a founder living in Puerto Rico for the past 7-8 years. Could I apply for Act 20 and have my tax rate reduced to just 4% corp income tax as long as we export our services/products?

Hmm interesting.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> My only gripe when they originally enacted act 20 and 22. Was that it required the founder not to have lived in Puerto Rico in the past 15 years or long period of time before arriving here.

Unless they changed it this would forbid founders that are trying to make a company in Puerto Rico able to qualify.

<comment><AUTHOR> It seems the requirement has been relaxed a bit:

"Puerto Rico Senate Bill 864 increases the potential impact of Act 22 by expanding who qualifies for the tax break. Prior to this legislation, Act 22 was only applicable to new migrants to Puerto Rico who had not been residents for the 15 year period before the Act went into effect in January 2012. That period has now been reduced from 15 to 6 years."

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2015/01/27/puerto-r...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2015/01/27/puerto- rico-expands-tax-haven-deal-for-americans-to-its-own-emigrants/#6e6883092735)

<comment><USER3> I only spent two year outside PR for my bachelors. Been back here for 8 years now. :(

Still feels odd trying to help create startups but excluding people that live here. I mean the original purpose was to bring new companies, "expats" to puerto rico which IMO is good at accomplishing.

<comment><USER4> Act 20 applies to any company or freelancer exporting services from Puerto Rico. Act 22 only applies to passive income, so it targets investors moving to the island.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> When I see such a poorly formatted/edited article, it makes me question the integrity and quality of the thinker behind it. I know it's vain and maybe superficial, but if they can't be bothered to consistently format or proofread their work, then I wonder what else they couldn't be bothered to do.</comment>


Aligning a webapp with the API - <AUTHOR> I am considering redesigning a web application so that it is structured the same way as the API. The same URL would take the user to an application in a browser, or a corresponding API endpoint if used programmatically. That could work by checking the request headers.
The goal is to improve discoverability or exploration of functionality. Many of our users might want to use the API programmatically. They could explore the API using the user interface. For a detailed definition of the API, there is SwaggerUI already.
Do you have any experience with this approach or advice? Any opinions? <comment><USER2> [https://github.com/lord/slate](https://github.com/lord/slate)</comment>


Patch for Internet Security Hole May Not Do the Job - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/technology/09flaw.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin <comment><USER2> Am I the only person that's annoyed that he just blogged this? When Kaminsky discovered the original flaw he kept it quiet and got a ton of nameservers patched before it leaked. Now this guy finds a problem with the patch, so he posts it on his blog immediately with helpful exploit code attached. What the hell?

</comment><comment><USER3> The attacker in this scenario appears to be able to deliver 40kpps to the target _before_ the legitimate server's response lands. The writer says he's on a GigE link --- presumably, he means "on the same GigE as the target resolver".

In the real world, attackers with that vantage point have better ways to hijack the DNS; for instance, they can usually reconfigure the target server.

Your LAN is way, way more owned than the Internet at-large is. Pretty much every network attack devised since 1992 still works on an internal network. The reason this doesn't kill you is, you don't let strangers on your internal network.

<comment><USER2> Oh, you're right, I really shouldn't skim. That does seem useless, it says right in the article the attackers were connected directly to the nameserver</comment></comment>


More Developers for Co-founderdatingSF Lunchbunch - <AUTHOR>

Iphone, Web, Android...come join a forming group of web designers and entrepreneurs for a casual twice a week lunchbunch to find your next project/start-up. Meets in San Francisco, tuesday and thursday lunches. email me the event organizer, Tricia Rampe, email@example.com  and see my personal business website. www.artcrush.me <comment><USER2> anyone know of similar events around the peninsula? i'm in cupertino and as enticing as lunch in the city sounds, it's a bit far.</comment>


Repo.js - A jQuery Plugin To Easily Embed A Github Repo Onto Your Site - <AUTHOR> http://darcyclarke.me/dev/repojs/ <comment><AUTHOR> Found via: [http://functionn.blogspot.de/2012/06/repojs-light-weight- jqu...](http://functionn.blogspot.de/2012/06/repojs-light-weight-jquery- plugin-to.html) \- Functionn - Open Source Resources For Web Developers & Designers</comment>


Earth-friendly EOMA68 Computing Devices - <AUTHOR> https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/progress-and-events <comment><USER2> From reading the entire talk page, for me the author has a limited view on what has happened.

He asked about COI and got

"As the author of the EOMA-68 standard, and as a co-creator of a crowd-funding campaign around several implementations of that standard, you have both a legal interest (as the primary author and copyright holder of the standard) and an economic interest (as an implementor) in the entities that this article is about."

as a first answer. Which is what the author didn't like and asked for 'clarifications' holding the opinion that

'do i have an interest in promoting the SUCCESS of EOMA68?" no i do NOT.'

which sounds surreal if you are the co-creator of a standard and run a crowd campaign for a device based on that standard, irrespective of the device being and/or standard being open.

The reasonable answer by the Wikipedian is

"Here is a video of you promoting the EOMA-68 initiative. Here is another. And here is an interview, in which you say, in relation to EOMA-68 and its implementations, things like, 'Let me tell you a little bit about why I'm doing this and why people should buy these products.'"

Looks like the author has also a very different view on crowd funding:

"it is a common mistake that a lot of people make. crowdfunding is a gift economy"

Otherwise read the talk page, it's much more fun than the blog post.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:EOMA68](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:EOMA68)

<comment><USER3> Wow. I don't think the EOMA68 author is really the sort of person you want in charge of an open standard. They also seem somewhat conflicted, beyond WP:COI, for example, regarding patents he says:

> i'm a SOFTWARE LIBRE DEVELOPER. do you know what that means? it means we > DON'T LIKE patents!

But on his LinkedIn page we find:

> as a result of my exploration in implementing encryption algorithms on an > ASP, I also came up with enough new ideas for Aspex to be able to generate > over six new patents.

To be honest, I don't know what exactly is meant by a 'Software Libre Developer' anyway, it seems to be a strange way of saying 'Open Source Software Developer' but with some kind of hidden subtext.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Good grief. Wikipedia has a problem with pages that can only be evaluated by experts. They could be perfectly good, or they could be advancing an agenda. I noticed this with their page on the Analytic Hierarchy Process, which is a somewhat scammy group decision making technique promoted by a cult-like group of business consultants. (I've compared it to Scientology -- it has a charismatic leader and even uses special electronic gizmos to make you feel like it's more sciency.) It's hard to fix the page because nothing on it is wrong, exactly. But its sheer length and loving detail, and the utter lack of criticism or reference to alternatives, makes AHP sound way more legit than it actually is.

<comment><USER5> I think that even more broadly, Wikipedia is incapable of handling any topic primarily of interest to a narrow 'interest group'. Those topics have a limited number of people who are qualified to work on the article, and it's possible that there will be one who is _qualified, interested, and unaffiliated_ to do the editing.

At one extreme, the result is what's linked here: unqualified editors produce inaccurate content, and reject anyone more qualified as having a conflict of interest. In the worst case, knowing enough to edit competently becomes _evidence_ of bias, and the chances of producing an accurate article drop to 0.

At the other is the pattern you described. I don't know AHP, but several of the articles on personality tests suffer from similar-sounding issues. They're not _wrong_ , but they've very visibly been edited by true believers, and the tone is bizarrely approving (or, at times, disapproving). You get pieces with 5,000 words of praise, followed by 100 weasel-words of 'Criticism', simply because the believers cared enough to go dig up sources and write good content.

I'm not sure there's any good way to break through this dichotomy, since the problem is a shortage of people qualified to analyze the article.

I do know, though, that it only takes a tiny amount of malfeasance to move the problem from bad to catastrophic. For instance, the EOMA68 article saw the hideous sequence of someone _deleting_ sources, then using _unsourced claims_ as grounds for a deletion request. Wikipedia does have some issues with bullying by senior editors, and in fragile cases like this it can have enormous consequences.

<comment><USER4> > In the worst case, knowing enough to edit competently becomes evidence of > bias, and the chances of producing an accurate article drop to 0.

This is why I haven't edited the AHP page, in fact. I know AHP is an inferior approach for a host of technical reasons, but the fact that I've drawn that conclusion means I can't maintain a neutral point of view.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Original title seems to have been "I'm Supporting the 'Deletion' of the Wikipedia Page" which is a tragic story of Internet bureaucracy.

<comment><USER4> I think the original title is more appropriate, even if it doesn't match the title of the page. Perhaps the link should go to

[https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro- desktop/updates/pro...](https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro- desktop/updates/progress-and-events/#wikipedias-eoma68-page)

With a title change to

"Wikipedia's EOMA68 Page"

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> From reading this I could not find out what was going on.

From what I tried to understand, someone running a crowd funding campaign on a 'EOMA68' device denies he has any conflict of interest with writing a 'EOMA68' wikipedia page when there is $175k on the line.

Not that I'm a friend in any way on how 'Wikipedians' act.

<comment><USER6> Author said that if (s)he believed there was a legit conflict of interest, they would have declared it. They asked Wikipedia folks for clarification, after which the bureaucrats started some administrative process and proceeded to edit the page with incorrect facts.

FWIW, the EOMA68 crowd funding campaign is to create a open hardware laptop that can run entirely with free software, and all of the designs etc are open source and available to the public (afaik).</comment></comment>


Show HN: AARToolkit – An opensource Unity framework to explore AAR concepts - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/exii-uw/AARToolkit <comment><AUTHOR> Hi Everyone! This is the code part for a recently published paper that explores the idea of augmented augmented reality (AAR), found here: [https://jjhartmann.github.io/AugmentedAugmentedReality/](https://jjhartmann.github.io/AugmentedAugmentedReality/)

We use a tiny actuated projector that is attached directly to an AR HMD to enhance the user's environment by projection mapping content. This gives the AR user a way to enhance their environment outside the headsets field-of-view while also solving some issues related to accommodation-vergence conflicts (VAC) by projection mapping to nearby surfaces.

Crucially however is the affordances this can provide when communicating with external, non-augmented user. The projector can be used as a bridge between the real unaugmented world and the virtual environment the AR user resides in. Imagine if you could show a collaborator a 3D model by using a perspective mapping so it looks 3D to the external user? Or collaborate on documents through an ad-hoc large display? These are some of the designs we look at in the paper, so if that sounds interesting, check it Github repo and paper!</comment>


U.S. Govt: Harsh Punishments Needed to Deter File-Sharers - <AUTHOR> http://torrentfreak.com/u-s-govt-harsh-punishments-needed-to-deter-music-pirates-130212/ <comment><USER2> Hmm, by this logic will we see fines for speeding rise? Or is there a strong, well-tread argument for proportionality that can be raised here?</comment>


The Flop That Saved Microsoft - <AUTHOR> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/10/microsoft_zune_how_one_of_the_biggest_flops_in_tech_history_helped_revive.single.html

<comment><USER2> Well, it hasn't saved Microsoft _yet_. Yes, the Zune's UI has had huge influences on both Windows Phone and Windows 8. However, Windows Phone hasn't been very successful, and the success of Windows 8 has yet to be determined.</comment>