Eating in 10-hour window can override disease-causing genetic defects - <AUTHOR> https://www.salk.edu/news-release/eating-in-10-hour-window-can-override-disease-causing-genetic-defects-nurture-health/ <comment><USER2> I've been on an intermittent fasting schedule (I usually do 16/8) for about a year and a half. I lost some weight during the first several months, but have leveled off to a reasonable weight (which is probably 10 pounds heavier than I'd like, but ~25 pounds lighter than when I started intermittent fasting).

Overall, I don't see any dramatic changes. Lots of people claim to see a significant difference, usually positive, in energy, strength, mood, sleep, etc. But, I generally think all of those metrics are "about the same" for me. Maybe I'm mildly more energetic because of carrying less weight around. But, I'm also at the age where the effects of aging begin to be noticeable...so, maybe just maintaining levels is progress?

Nonetheless, after several years of research into the topic, and related topics like caloric restriction, a couple of years ago I was convinced that the evidence was compelling enough to make it part of my life and started reducing my eating period each day until I was comfortable with 16 hours of fasting each day (sometimes I'll do 20 or 24, if I'm busy and feel OK). I recommend it to people who ask about it, but not because it's a magical cure for all that ails you. I just think the evidence is strong enough to be worth the minor trade-offs. It isn't a risky decision (with the caveat that it probably isn't appropriate for people with diabetes or hypoglycemia or similar)...none of the science indicates negative results, and nearly all of it indicates positive results to one degree or another. It's pretty much like any other diet decision, e.g. eat more vegetables because you'll probably live longer, not because it'll cure cancer or make you an Olympic athlete.

<comment><USER3> _But, I 'm also at the age where the effects of aging begin to be noticeable...so, maybe just maintaining levels is progress?_

The thing is we can't clone you multiple times and treat each replica of you differently, so we have no idea if you would be terribly sick or something by now if you had made other choices.

I'm always fascinated by anecdotes about fasting, etc. But it's actually incredibly hard to isolate one dietary factor and draw firm conclusions about cause and effect.

From what I gather, large scale longitudinal studies are our best data for diet in humans and they conclude things like "A handful of nuts a day is good for you."

<comment><USER4> It's actually not as hard as you think for experimental design to show strong causitive effects - I think randomized controlled trials (in animal and then human models) and meta-analysis are much more effective than epidemiological studies (which don't have effective controls, often don't appropriately correct for other factors, or are specific enough to target specific lines of inquiry and allow spurious conclusions to be drawn).

I've just started doing my own research digging through the literature in PubMed and there's a huge amount of research over the past decade especially that's really advanced our understanding of nutrition and metabolism (that sadly, has yet to get full traction in conventional wisdom/popular science).

Just a few examples from my collection on fasting (at this point I'm tracking hundreds of publications covering a whole range of different aspects of nutritional science, and this is only over the course of a couple weeks of research):

Nørrelund, Helene, K. Sreekumaran Nair, Jens Otto Lunde Jørgensen, Jens Sandahl Christiansen, and Niels Møller. "The Protein-Retaining Effects of Growth Hormone During Fasting Involve Inhibition of Muscle-Protein Breakdown." Diabetes 50, no. 1 (January 1, 2001): 96–104. [https://doi.org/10.2337/diabetes.50.1.96](https://doi.org/10.2337/diabetes.50.1.96).

Bhutani, Surabhi, Monica C. Klempel, Reed A. Berger, and Krista A. Varady. "Improvements in Coronary Heart Disease Risk Indicators by Alternate-Day Fasting Involve Adipose Tissue Modulations." Obesity (Silver Spring, Md.) 18, no. 11 (November 2010): 2152–59. [https://doi.org/10.1038/oby.2010.54](https://doi.org/10.1038/oby.2010.54).

Harvie, Michelle N., Mary Pegington, Mark P. Mattson, Jan Frystyk, Bernice Dillon, Gareth Evans, Jack Cuzick, et al. "The Effects of Intermittent or Continuous Energy Restriction on Weight Loss and Metabolic Disease Risk Markers: A Randomised Trial in Young Overweight Women." International Journal of Obesity (2005) 35, no. 5 (May 2011): 714–27. [https://doi.org/10.1038/ijo.2010.171](https://doi.org/10.1038/ijo.2010.171).

Chaix, Amandine, Amir Zarrinpar, Phuong Miu, and Satchidananda Panda. "Time- Restricted Feeding Is a Preventative and Therapeutic Intervention against Diverse Nutritional Challenges." Cell Metabolism 20, no. 6 (December 2, 2014): 991–1005. [https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2014.11.001](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2014.11.001).

Rothschild, Jeff, Kristin K. Hoddy, Pera Jambazian, and Krista A. Varady. "Time-Restricted Feeding and Risk of Metabolic Disease: A Review of Human and Animal Studies." Nutrition Reviews 72, no. 5 (May 1, 2014): 308–18. [https://doi.org/10.1111/nure.12104](https://doi.org/10.1111/nure.12104).

Fontana, Luigi, and Linda Partridge. "Promoting Health and Longevity through Diet: From Model Organisms to Humans." Cell 161, no. 1 (March 26, 2015): 106–18. [https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2015.02.020](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2015.02.020).

I should add that the evidence was so strong for certain behaviors that I have changed my diet (VLCHF + 16+:8IF) and n=1 shows immediate improvements in weight, energy, mental clarity, and even skin health. Somewhat unexpected because I wasn't eating that badly according to common wisdom (and have maintained a moderate overweight, but stable weight for the past 3+yrs).

<comment><USER3> I've been doing this for more than 17 years. Some thoughts:

1\. Anything that makes a real change will have side effects. Some of those side effects can be negative. For people not familiar with the concept of a healing crisis, this can be a confusing fact. They can end up temporarily feeling worse and conclude this is a bad thing rather than a temporary stage of a process headed in the right direction.

2\. Prescribed medicine typically has a long list of provisos and side effects. If you have a serious condition, prescribed medicine trades short term gains for long term costs. Doctors claim credit for the short term gains, then blame the long term costs on your condition or age rather than on long term drug use. You need to be leery of the possibility that you are doing the same sort of thing and crediting any positive changes to this dietary change and dismissing any negative changes as coincidental or due to something else.

3\. I've seen people post questions to a discussion forum along the lines of "What are non drug alternatives for treating X issue? I would like to participate in a drug trial and they won't accept patients taking this drug. I need to get off it to qualify." So people doing stuff like that are confounding the results of the trial and will report changes in symptoms and attribute them to the drug being tried rather than attributing them to getting off some other drug and using non drug alternatives.

4\. In practice, it's quite hard to isolate one specific dietary factor because dietary changes typically involve at least two factors. If you add some new food to your diet and eat the same calories, it displaces some other food. You can't say for certain if the changes are due to adding the new food or removing what was replaced. If you are experimenting with your own diet, it helps to start with supplements, make one and only one change at a time and track things somehow. This makes it possible to get some idea of what effect X is having.

5\. It's a moving target. If you are calcium deficient and add calcium to your diet, this may be exactly what you need to start feeling better. Initially, more calcium may be better. If your mental model boils down to "more calcium is better," you may wind up resolving the deficiency and then enter a situation where you are actually consuming too much calcium. This can lead to problems that you may not attribute to consuming high levels of calcium because you already decided "more calcium is better." You may develop new issues and utterly fail to relate them to consuming high levels of calcium.

6\. People have a really hard time mentally modeling the road not taken. It isn't completely impossible, but people tend to be bad at it. If you have a specific diagnosis and you know the usual course of the condition, you can compare your health to the typical outcome and make some inferences, but it isn't absolutely conclusive. This is why twin studies are valued: We can't make two copies of you, but if there are already two people with identical genes, that's the closest we get to that.

7\. Life is chemistry and there can be myriad other factors being overlooked. I try hard to track not only diet, but how much I walk, environmental factors, etc. I've done this for years and I still find myself blindsided at times and struggling to pinpoint why X is happening currently.

Most people aren't going to be able to read hundreds of studies. If you can and that gives you a mental model that makes sense to you, awesome. That doesn't actually strike me as a convincing rebuttal. It strikes me as more evidence that it's actually rather challenging to figure out dietary stuff. You won't solve it by reading an article or two.

<comment><USER4> I agree that it's really complex and not straightforward, especially since there are so many unknowns, confounding factors, and since so much is different from person to person (microbiota, genetic and especially epigenetic factors, the effects of hormesis, etc) but at the same time, just because it's complex doesn't mean that science (or individuals) should throw their hands up and say "well, there are no conclusions that can be made about human diet" as that seems to be patently untrue.

Also, just because people can't read hundreds of studies doesn't mean that they aren't out there, or that haven't been done (tens of thousands of studies, of all kinds, which taken together _do_ point to much more specific things than "eat some nuts"), or that it's excusable when medical professionals make recommendations that are contradicted by the preponderence of scientific evidence.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Is it possible that with economic affluence of the West, overconsumption is harmful?

It used to be that there would be days where our ancestors would not be able to bring home any meat so fasting probably was built in as part of our metabolism process.

It was only in the past 100 years that we've seen mass produced sugary food and drinks.

Like the diet difference is painfully obvious when you go to Japan's 7-11. Healthy stuff all around compared to deep fried fast food.

Some days I will only eat 1 meal, and I honestly feel great. The biggest difference being I have way more energy and just feel "light".

These days I've converted to mostly Korean food consisting of rice and veggie side dishes incl kimchi of course. I've lost 4kg within 3 weeks just by changing diet.

Of course can't resist the burger and fries once in a while....but eating primarily Korean food because I'm Korean I realize is the wise choice....our ancestors have been eating the same stuff for millenias so it's probably "right" for my metabolism.

there's a study that showed East-Asian men living in North America have high rate of prostate related issues which has traditionally never been prevalent in East Asia...and also the rise of American fast food chains have collectively made the world a lot less healthier with the increase of diabetes and obesity.

<comment><USER6> > our ancestors have been eating the same stuff for millenias so it's probably > "right" for my metabolism.

There might be a genetic factor here. The other thing is that the food habits of our ancestors were more thought out than we think. It might be that what they have been eating is not only better because of genetics, but more healthy in general than the terrible foods we can buy everywhere today.

<comment><USER5> Absolutely. It's fascinating how different dietary cultures develop and adapt to their environment in a surprisingly efficient manner. Nothing is wasted. Need to store meat for long periods of winter? Smoke it. Need it on the go? We'll use the left over bits to make sausages. What? You need side dishes that doesn't go bad for a long time? We'll pickle it, store it under ground to ferment it. Huh, you are throwing away all that extra cabbage roots from making kimchi? Put that in a soup or 시락국 containing high levels of Omega-H3 from the broth containing tiny fishes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Interesting how this time restricted eating seems to differ from perspectives in the intermittent fasting community.

Intermittent Fasting folks tend to espouse avoiding caloric intake for long periods of time every day, but they're fine with black coffee/tea (since it doesn't trigger an insulin response). But here Dr. Panda seems to believe that even coffee would compromise the fasting window: [https://youtu.be/iywhaz5z0qs?t=1h15m15s](https://youtu.be/iywhaz5z0qs?t=1h15m15s)

There goes that 7am cup of coffee...

<comment><USER8> I just signed up and installed their iOS app. You are correct: drinking coffee or tea in the morning starts the non-fasting period. This will be rough for me because I usually have coffee at 5:30am, read or study for 90 minutes, then have breakfast and go to work. I will shift my morning coffee to when I have breakfast.

I have been non-fasting and fasting with an even split of 12 hours / 12 hours per day, so this will be an adjustment.

<comment><USER9> > _This will be rough for me because I usually have coffee at 5:30am, read or > study for 90 minutes, then have breakfast and go to work._

Or you can ignore their advice (others advice otherwise anyway), and still drink coffee as part of your fasting...

It's not like any of this is particularly scientific...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Completely anecdotal, but I had some digestive issues for a few weeks, fasted for two days, and everything returned to normal.

</comment><comment><USER11> I 've spent 3.5/4 years eating nothing except on the weekends (my undergrad). So I would go for 2-5 days at a time without food. Not because of fasting fads or anything, I didn't even know what fasting was. I was just from a very poor family and if I wanted to go for vacations with my friends or party in the weekend or buy a computer I had to save every penny I could. (that's how I bought my first laptop etc). I would eat properly during holidays and the summer only at my parent's home.

I was very skinny, but somehow still had fat. Sometimes I bought pants from the women's section or I would take pants to my mom to sew the waist tighter, because I was so thin I couldn't find clothes that fit me (I have some pictures of me wearing my 108lb girlfriend's pants stashed somewhere). I exercised a bit but seeing me without a shirt you could tell I had manboobs and a tiny-lil bit of a potbelly and no abs at all, not even the skinny ones.

At some point I developed fainting on sight of blood. I would brush my teeth, and if I scratched my gum and blood came out -- I had to run to the bed asap before passing out. To this day I don't know if I was just afraid of blood (blood doesn't affect me anymore), or I had gotten so weak I was actually nearing total collapse. Blood tests were surprisingly fine I just had low iron.

Looking at that period back, I 'm trying to see if the advertised benefits applied to me. I didn't get sick much, but I don't get sick in general. Aging... well what can you say to an 18-22 year old about aging. My libido was low which makes sense I guess. Energy, regular levels. I don't know, I was just a very thin dude, fasting or not, no major epiphanies or amazement. I suppose it's amazing that one can survive fine, no suffering, going for so long without food, but it wasn't better than eating.

I am very surprised at how people swear by it. Maybe life is much worse when you eat 3 meals per day? I don't know, nowadays (early 30s) I eat 2 meals and exercise a lot and I 'm pretty content. I think for me, exercise did the trick that elevated both my mood and my energy levels.

Would I do the crazy 5-day 4 year fast again? If I was young and "hungry" sure, but it's definitely miserable. Food can be a great social thing to do with friends, and a cool experience especially when trying new dishes and restaurants. The huge food diversity in SF spoiled me.

Edit: back then I was very ashamed of my fasting and try to hide it from friends etc. A few weeks ago I was shocked when a coworker told me he was doing a 7 day water-only fast. We 've come a long way!

<comment><USER12> It sounds like you were just starving yourself. I'm going to guess that you weren't eating 2-5 days worth of food whenever you chose to eat?

I'm sorry but going that long without eating just doesn't make any sense. Did you/your family only have the ability to buy/acquire one meal at a time or what?

<comment><USER11> No, I was living alone while going to school. I would starve myself so I could save more money. What is the difference between X day fasts and what I did?

I am not trying to claim that fasting doesn't work, just noting my personal experience. For me it certainly worked in the sense that I saw the fakeness of "if you don't eat for X days you get super hungry or weak/sick/you die", I was perfectly ok.. but not amazing.

<comment><USER12> The difference is that fasters aren't intentionally calorie restricting, they are just time restricting their eating. It sounds like you may have been starving yourself(getting fewer calories than you needed), and also time restricting yourself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> How does 10 hours of eating and 14 hours of fasting translate to humans? The life span of a mouse is much smaller than humans amd their metabolic rate is higher, 4 times that of humans. So I wonder if that would mean a much longer eating window and fasting window for humans.

<comment><USER14> The sun and the moon spin at rates independent of the lifespan of the animal in question.

<comment><USER13> Yes, but the effect of food restriction have more pronounced effect in mice vs humans. So, we cannot expect the same efficacy in humans when fasting for the same periods.

""" Fasting of mice for 48 h (which causes ∼20% weight loss) or starvation of human volunteers for up to 4 d (which causes <2% weight loss) """

[1] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28059587](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28059587)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> There is more detailed research as to food consumption patterns. Basically fasting for around 16 hours a day is good for health. From the evolutionary perspective--that invested in a human body 200K years--the way we eat today is really broken. And our body can't adapt to a new pattern even during 1000 years. Not to mention like 50. A human body during 200K years was not prepared to eating a lot. It needs to store energy and to use stored energy. That's a natural cycle and different function that our body needs to execute. Nowadays we just store energy 24/7.

"Emerging findings from studies of animal models and human subjects suggest that intermittent energy restriction periods of as little as 16 h can improve health indicators and counteract disease processes. The mechanisms involve a metabolic shift to fat metabolism and ketone production, and stimulation of adaptive cellular stress responses that prevent and repair molecular damage."

Here is the link: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4250148/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4250148/)

Also here are patterns of daily and weekly food consumption from this research: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4250148/figure/...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4250148/figure/fig03/)

</comment><comment><USER16> I picked it up from Martin Berkhan's leangains. It was a lot easier than counting calories for long term maintenance, and it kept the lard off. It made sense to me from an evolutionary point of view; cavemen don't eat "3 square meals" before attacking wooly mammoths, and virtually every religion in the world includes a rigorous fasting period, which, IMO emulates hunter gatherer eating patterns.

For me, the main side effect is I feel a lot more alert, and I waste less time during the day, as preparing and eating food takes up less of it. You know that sleepy feeling you get after a huge breakfast or lunch that makes you reach for an extra cup of coffee? It is no longer a problem. Hunger pangs were an issue for the first two days I did this, and haven't been since then. Oh yeah, and I also feel REALLY FULL when I've eaten too much. Keeping your gut empty from time to time helps you to self regulate.

I think I won the genetic lottery as far as aging goes, and I exercise and try to not eat too much junk food, but "so far so good."

</comment><comment><USER17> I've experimented with intermittent fasting, carb cycling, and a variety of other methods.

Intermittent fasting's benefits for me are primarily the lack of distraction and fluctuations in my blood glucose level. I found that consuming protein or fats in the morning does not affect the latter benefit. It seems to me that it's more about a diet that's easy to stick to than dramatically altering one's metabolism.

Lately, I've become more serious about strength training and have given up on it because my caloric needs have skyrocketed (I found myself losing weight at over 3000 calories a day.) and I need to eat frequently to recover.

However, I would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone who isn't an athlete, and to the latter I'd still suggest experimenting.

</comment><comment><USER18> I'm kind of surprised this isn't the default for most people.

For example let's say you eat dinner at 6-7pm and then goto bed at 11pm. After that you wake up around 7am and then maybe eat breakfast an hour or 2 later.

At this point you've gone from about 7pm to 8am or 9am without eating (~13-14 hours) but it fits pretty well into a schedule.

Wouldn't you have to really go out of your way to deviate from that? Of course you would adjust the numbers based on how late you goto bed and rise in the morning, but the ratios would be about the same -- maybe even more fasting if you sleep longer than 8 hours.

<comment><USER9> > _Wouldn 't you have to really go out of your way to deviate from that?_

Depends on the country and culture. In these here parts we still go to work at 8am or 9am, but we dine at 10pm or later (going to a restaurant at 11pm is very common, and similarly for eating at home).

<comment><USER18> What time do you get home from work?

That sounds like an unreasonably long day if you have to be in work by 8am but you're still at a restaurant at 11pm.

I'm from the US btw. I happen to do freelance work but most people I know work from about 9am to 5pm where they leave the house around 8:30am and are home by 5:30pm or 6pm at the latest.

Eating breakfast at 8am and dinner at 7pm is normal for them, or sometimes they skip breakfast at home and eat something small at work.

<comment><USER9> > _What time do you get home from work?_

Depends on the job. Office jobs are nominally 9-5 but it's easy for employees to stay until 7pm or so in some places. Retail shops (anything from butchers and grocery places to supermarkets and shoe shops and electronics shops) close at 8-8:30pm (they usually open around 9am or a little later) -- but those have shifts too (e.g. those working there don't stay all day from 9am to 8:30pm, unless they're the owners).

Some places (usually the self-run ones) also close around 2:30/3:00pm and open again at 5:30pm or so.

> _That sounds like an unreasonably long day if you have to be in work by 8am > but you 're still at a restaurant at 11pm._

Not "still at the restaurant at 11pm" \- it's first sitting down at the restaurant at 11pm (they'd leave at 12:30 - 1am or so). They I guess you sleep for 6-7 hours or so and wake at 7 or 8.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I have tried eating with long gaps in between but somehow that leads me to lose a lot of muscle mass as well. Recently I was trying it again with an overall caloric deficit but sufficient amount of protein intake but I lost both fat and muscle in 1:1 ratio even with regularly working out.

I don't know if that was just because of caloric deficit or long gaps in between. I have seen the 5-6 evenly spaced out meals in a day work the best for me if I want to maintain/put on muscle mass.

</comment><comment> dixonge-2 I keep reading the study to verify, but the wording is wishy-washy. I can find no numbers that they actually measured the calories taken in by the mice who had access to food ad libitum (24/7). If those numbers aren't measured, you'll never know if the time-restricted mice ate the same calories. Let me know if you can find those calorie intake numbers anywhere...

<comment> dixonge-2 and here's what happened when Panda tracked actual humans - "Even though the participants didn't change the content of their diet, Panda confirms that reducing the hours they ate resulted in the reduction of about 20 percent of calories, which may be one reason why they were able to lose weight."

So it's the calories after all. Regardless, if _any_ technique (well, almost any) helps you cut calories without having to 'count' them, then that's still a win!

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> If it would work on humans, I guess I am good; I cannot (i am never hungry that early) eat before 10am and I cannot sleep if I eat after 8 pm.

</comment><comment><USER21> The comparison was between rats who could eat anytime and rats eating within a 10 hour window. What makes 10 hours the magic? Could it be 11, 12, 14 hours? Is it better if the window is 6 or 8 hours? Would it be different on a day in which the sun shone for 16 hours or 12 his? There is clearly something there but 10 hours seems arbitrary.

</comment><comment><USER22> Better way to state this is: Make sure you have 14hr period where you are not consuming any food (i.e. fasting period).

</comment><comment><USER23> In mice.

Whose genes have been altered.

And who show no adherence to a circadian rhythm.

Not exactly relatable, is it?

<comment><USER24> Humans too I guess:

[https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/changes-breakfast-and- dinner-t...](https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/changes-breakfast-and-dinner- timings-can-reduce-body-fat)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Is it better to eat in the morning or night for humans?

<comment><USER26> Middle of the day for largest meal. Try to eat less before bed so liver can detox instead of digest food while u sleep. Also if your a man try working on peacock pose each morning 30 mins before eating (up to 5 mins) to boost digestion , if woman be careful when menstruating

<comment><USER27> Everything you said sounds like bullshit, do you have any source to back it up?

<comment><USER26> [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0072577/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0072577/)

Through an evolution lense we evolved to not be eating huge meals in the middle of the night. When the liver doesn't have to work on digestion it can better focus on the myriad of other tasks it's responsible for.

As for mayurasana, I doubt any pharma company is going to drop 500 Gs to perform a double blind random controlled study with >1000 participants , but just try it for a month: [http://www.hathayogamysore.com/asanas/mayurasana- the-peacock](http://www.hathayogamysore.com/asanas/mayurasana-the-peacock) """ Benefits of The Peacock (Mayurasana) 1\. Because of the pressure on the abdomen,the blood is directed towards the digestive organs.as the intra- abdominal pressure is increased,the abdominal viscera is toned 2\. Liver,pancreas,stomach and spleen are invigorated.The nerves and muscles connected with the kidneys and intestines are revitalised. 3\. Sluggishness of the liver or hepatic torpidity disappears. """

It's dangerous for women because the intense pressure and slight inversion can mess up their menstrual process during the height of it (3day span usually). Sadly no pharma studies are available on this (what company would drop money on studying that !)

<comment><USER28> Governments would pay for it. As would health insurances. It is in their own benefit that they study this sort of thing. "Big pharma companies" won't because that is honestly outside their field of study, which is the development of pharma products. It seriously isn't worth taking money away from better treatments for malaria or cancer to study it. However, universities and goverments and health insurance companies would be interested. The first is because some universities are research centers and the other two are interested in lowering their costs for health care. Simple solutions are good for these groups.

And about the woman stuff? I don't buy it. Of course they would drop money on it - at the same rate they drop money on menstral studies, anyway (it isn't as much as some other things, but they do study such things). Part of the menstral process is contributed by muscle cramps and gravity. Lying down in general will sometimes make things slow down, especially on the last day or two. Once the person is upright, the person might simply have a heavier flow those days. Without studies, this sort of advice is simply founded in superstition.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Did the mice which had access to food 24/7 eat more overall than the mice with restricted food access?

If so, then the study seems useless because the results can entirely be explained as excessive eating leads to health problems.

I don't see anything in the article saying how they controlled for quantity of food consumed.

<comment><USER30> No the article said that's both groups consumed the same number of calories per day.

<comment><USER29> Thanks. I didn't read it carefully enough the first time but I see that mentioned now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Just don't eat too much

</comment><comment><USER32> I'm not sure how well this translates to humans.

<comment><USER33> I doubt they would do these experiments unless, one way or another, they also apply to us. They are not trying to make mice live longer :)

<comment><USER28> Actually, studies in mice don't always pan out to humans. There are flaws in mouse studies and sometimes the results in humans are wildly different. But mice are cheap, bread readily, and are a great starting point for laboratory tests.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Another major victory in mankind's long quest to render mice immortal.

<comment> ainar-g For anyone wondering about what's wrong with mouse testing, here is a funny but informative video on the subject[1]. One highlight:

>After a drug is confirmed as safe and efficacious in preclinical studies, it is tested in healthy human volunteers for first in man trials. In 2006, a phase I clinical study was conducted for a CD28 superagonist antibody TGN1412 in six human volunteers. After very first infusion of a dose 500 times smaller than that found safe in animal studies, all six human volunteers faced life- threatening conditions involving multiorgan failure for which they were moved to intensive care unit

Source[2].

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvJHq2FJPDM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvJHq2FJPDM)

[2] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964774/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964774/)

<comment><USER35> Which shows that mice are an imperfect model, not that they don't have substantial value.

<comment><USER36> Right? It's like, "Woman dies from water overdosw during radio contest, therefore all water consumption is at very least unhealthy"</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Foursquare, Quora, Path: What Becomes Of The Underachievers? - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/28/foursquare-quora-path-what-becomes-of-the-underachievers/ <comment><USER2> _They have scaled from scrappy outsiders into significant players. They have millions of faithful users. While it's true they have succeeded well within their founders' wildest dreams, they are still among the best of the best, or they wouldn't have gotten to where they are today._

"Scrappy outsiders?" I always felt Path and Quora were overhyped Valley darlings heavily funded right out of the gate.

As for the comment that they are "still among the best of the best", I think it's only possible to make that claim on narrow criteria -- for instance, Quora's Q&A quality in a few verticals, and FourSquare for its check-in data.

<comment><USER3> TechCrunch in particular hyped the shit out of Quora, as many of us struggled to figure out the point of it.

<comment><USER4> I think the point of Quora was just to get engagement up with whatever it took to keep people posting and upvoting. It was addicting, but forget getting answers to questions unless you were one of the sites better known users. Quora is the Zynga of the Q&A format, and created about as much value.

<comment><USER5> I asked just two questions and they were answered in a really great way by people much more involved in the topic than I expected. But I am speaking as someone who grows a slight addiction to Quora. I think the trick is that you have to engage with the community then you can promote your question with credits.

* [http://www.quora.com/Linguistics/Is-there-a-theory-of-how-ca...](http://www.quora.com/Linguistics/Is-there-a-theory-of-how-cases-came-into-languages)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> There is so much more to Foursquare than just checkins! It's such an amazing service; and not for what you may think. It's the best tool to find new, popular or places that I would like based of things I already like or do.

Not only is Foursquare's recommendation engine great; the lists are awesome. It's actually been sad to see them gradually make lists less visible. At least, they still have the TODO list which gives me an easy way to find a place I have been meaning to go. On the venue profile, they used to feature the lists that users made containing that venue. So what I would do is find a place I like and then I could easily find other places based on the list's it was a member of. It makes traveling so much more fun.

The whole social thing about Foursquare is it's weakest point. I don't know why they are emphasizing it so much. Firstly, only an extremely small subset of my friends are on Foursquare and secondly I have enough social networks.

Yes, because of Foursquare I ran into some friends in my neighborhood that I would not have otherwise. But really that's not nearly as cool as the random hotel costume party I found that was trending one night. Or the countless coffee shops, bars and restaurants I discovered while traveling.

So to me the strengths of Foursquare are: * Recommendation engine. * Lists ( TODO and Public Lists ) * International usage. * chance social encounters with friends.

<comment><USER7> > There is so much more to Foursquare than just checkins!

I argue with friends all the time about how Foursquare is a better tool for finding and rating establishments than Yelp. The simple like it/dislike it makes it a much easier way to rate, not to mention they don't allow for long winded rants much like you see on Yelp. I too also use the Lists feature a lot, especially when I know I'm going to be traveling to a new area.

Perhaps the bloggers constant referral to Foursquare as a check-in service is what has kept it from "growing", though they didn't help themselves either by trying to not highlight the other features more.

<comment><USER8> I've never used 4SQ b/c I couldn't care less about "checking in", even for discounts. But I use Yelp all the time, and you guys make a good case for giving 4SQ another look. A Yelp with pure data, no subjective anecdotes, opinions, or rants? Sounds interesting.

<comment><USER9> Lots of subjective anecdotes in the form of one-sentence "tips" you can leave at places, but IMO they tend to be a lot more positive than Yelp reviews, which tend to be disgruntled people kvetching.

Personally the tips are more useful than Yelp reviews. I don't have time or inclination to read long-form reviews, 4sq tips are much more relevant when I'm sitting down in a restaurant and figuring out what's especially good on the menu.

IMO they made a mistake. The Yelp-killer app should've been separated from the 4sq brand, not the other way around. Foursquare is forever known as "the checkin app", if they really wanted to pivot IMO they should've called it something else entirely.

<comment><USER6> Actually that brings up another thing I really like about Foursquare. You don't just see tips from random people, page's can also leave tips. I have learned all sorts of fun facts from tips left by the "History Channel" or "Food Network".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> To me, all three are the modern Myspaces - albeit much smaller and insignificant in comparison to back then. The brands have been around and stand for something, which will make it hard to pivot and instill excitement in the user base. To me, all of the three have lost their raison d'etre.

Quora had a lot of potential, but only a subset of people actively used the service and formed it into something that won't appeal to the masses.

Foursquare was great for the unique check-in/gamification thing, but after Facebook made check-in just another feature, there really wasn't a reason to go to Foursquare anymore. With checkins gone and Yelp being as big and well established as it is, there is even less reason to go there now.

Path frankly I never thought had any reason to be there in the first place - no idea how to pivot that thing into anything useful. A "custom-designed, one- of-a-kind bespoke app" if you will...

</comment><comment><USER11> They all make me wonder if money is too loose again. I look at all of them and ask: did they really need to get to such scale to learn that they had big issues?

I have the most sympathy for Foursquare, in that their previous incarnation got purchased and ignored by Google [1], so I can see why Foursquare's founders just decided to do the same thing over again. But it seems like they could have noticed these problems 2 or 3 years ago.

Quora and Path, though, have spent an awful lot of money in ways that make me wonder if they would have done better if they had a lot less cash in the bank, and thus more need to prove their hypotheses in the small.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodgeball_(service)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodgeball_\(service\))

</comment><comment><USER12> Quora is annoying as hell. You need to log in to see the answers or do anything. Talked to one of the dev why they do this and he sorta dodge the question, I got the hint so I left it as is. Quora is useless to me in general and Stackoverflow is much better.

Path, I've heard of path and I don't care for it. I've moved away from Facebook and hardly use it anymore. So yeah, the mass migration of Facebook and other social site is probably a trend.

Foursquare, I admire it a lot. I love the business model and the app is pretty decent, better than Yelp that's for sure.

<comment><USER13> It also does some shady things to increase engagement. I sent a Quora link to a friend, she created an account to be able to read it and the next day I got an email from Quora that she followed me (it also said that she is already following four other people). In reality, she did nothing. She just read the article, didn't follow anyone.

<comment><USER14> On June 4th I asked Quora to permanently delete my account. When I started reading answers there, I don't think you had to "sign up to read" as the front page now requests (without an account). It's gradually escalated what's required until I just found it too onerous to participate. I don't want to share my interests with them and I certainly don't want to share my contacts list with them.

I'm probably an outlier but I really only found a couple interesting questions a month, so I don't think I'll miss Quora.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> For those of us outside California Quora seems little more than a silicon valley circle jerk.A better branded version of the old experts exchange,though its not hard to brand yourself better than the company with the second worst url in internet history(I wonder how mole station nursery is doing these days?). The very the people who have benefited from the internet revolution move to limit access to publicly provided information,information they themselves did not even create.Nice job kicking out the ladders from under you. If I ever get hit on the head and want to live life as some someone else's virtual pet ill be sure to check out foursquare as well(oh you went to the pub,who's a good boy?Have a virtual cookie). Stack Overflow does a lot wrong,half of my favourite answers are marked as closed for some arbitrary reason but at least it can provide open and accurate answers to questions in specific problem domains. In the land of the blind the one eyed man is truly king.

<comment><USER16> Funny, didn't hear about mole station before. I can only imagine the amount of confusion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> And of the three only Foursquare got anywhere close to mainstream conciousness, but failed to convert it. As others have observed, the location and local information space seems to be a real killer.

Ultimately though they are simply attempts to create get rich quick fads with no compelling hook for normal people. I think it only puzzles those inside the bubble that such things don't fly too readily.

</comment><comment><USER18> I'm still baffled at how everyone considers these startups to be "underachieving". In terms of becoming the next facebook or twitter? Well, no shit. That's a borderline impossible standard.

Compared to 95% of their peers (which are, at least statistically, true underachievers in that they never made it into the mainstream or at least the tech-mainstream, or didn't survive long enough that we would recognize them today), they're waaaay on the right side of the bell curve.

Indeed. What a bunch of slackers!

<comment><USER19> Completely agree. Underachieving according to what criteria? The criteria of modern capitalism of high velocity ever increasing profit for their investors and shareholders. Not about popularity, sustainability or user base, but money.

<comment><USER20> I think they are interpreting pivots as a sign that the founders and/or investors wanted to change direction, because the previous direction wasn't succeeding.

I'm all for small, sustainable sites which provide a service and don't try to monetise too desperately. But when you take $50 million in VC funding, surely the founders know they're boarding the ten-times-return-or-bust train?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Quora is the only one of these that interests me primarily because most answers are posted by people using their actual names. Yeah it's not perfect and it has a lot of issues, but this is a big selling point for me. There are advantages to anonymity, but there are also advantages to sticking faces onto posts. Quora should be the place for the latter, and should play that up more.

<comment><USER22> just my opinion but the login wall totally kills Quora.just saying.Not going to log into that stuff just to read an answer.

And the UI/UX hasnt been updated for years.Doesnt feel modern.

Just my 2 cents about why i dont use Quora.

Could have been a great tool to build E-Reputation for engineers.

<comment><USER23> Exactly why I have never even visited Quora.

Facebook login required? Forgitaboutit. I've never had a facebook account and never will (sure, I know you maybe can use another service...but just it isn't worth my time).

<comment><USER24> Quora was started by ex-Facebook CTO / VP Eng, who previously lead "Facebook Platform", i.e. the login requirement now seen at Quora. However, most of the world moved on.

[http://pando.com/2013/07/23/move-fast-break-things-the- sad-s...](http://pando.com/2013/07/23/move-fast-break-things-the-sad-story-of- platform-facebooks-gigantic-missed-opportunity/)

[http://www.crunchbase.com/person/adam-d- angelo](http://www.crunchbase.com/person/adam-d-angelo)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> What's Quora's business model? Maybe I'm just missing it, but I don't see any way for them to make money. No advertising. No premium accounts. Anybody know their eventual plan for revenue?

<comment><USER26> They have no business model. That's the problem they're facing. They expected higher growth and higher user numbers. They expected to heavily displace sites like Answers.com and Yahoo Answers, and that did not happen - both of those are mainstream, have not lost traffic due to Quora, and Quora has never managed to go mainstream in terms of scale.

Quora has to abandon the Q&A space as they've known it (aka pivot). There's no possibility of ever, under any circumstances, justifying a $1 billion valuation, much less say a $3 billion valuation (which their most recent investors have to be hoping for at least), in the traditional Q&A space. Answers.com is three times the size of Quora in terms of traffic, and they're worth maybe 1/5th what Quora is.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> My analysis of Quora joining Y Combinator: [http://newslines.org/blog/why- quora-joined-y-combinator/](http://newslines.org/blog/why-quora-joined-y- combinator/) Short version: the complete lack of business model forces Quora to seek out the next stage of investors.

<comment><USER28> I don't think you understand the type of investors that show up at demo day. Hint: they aren't writing the 8 and 9 figure checks you think Quora is hoping they'll write them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> they were fads. Variations/customizations in one way or another of a social networking. The social wave has passed and the crystallization in its wake has left only options significantly differentiated in parameter space from each other - FB, Twitter, Snapchat, WhatsApp.

<comment><USER30> I don't know that the social wave has passed, but it does seem like single- serving social apps are on the way out unless they have a difficult-to- replicate twist to them (like Secret or whisper).

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Is the actor who played Jango Fett supposed to be the poster boy for underachievers?

<comment><USER32> It's not really appropriate, given the movie's content - the main character, Jake "the Muss", destroyed his family through his alcohol abuse and horrific violence directed against them (see the film Once Were Warriors). In this film, he tries to deal with the consequences of what he has wrought.

It's a pretty bleak story, and it has little relevance to "a bunch of overhyped and heavily investor backed startups didn't pay off."

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I love reading outsiders flail when trying to understand something like Quora by thinking in terms of naive, business-as-usual lenses.

<comment><USER34> I love it when insiders flail thinking they are rewriting the rules of business. I also love it when they completely misunderstand the term business- as-usual.

The opposite of business as usual is a project. A temporary , uncertain venture with a defined finish point.

By your statement Quora is simply a project, not a business.

Keep up the superior attitude; it's working well for you.</comment></comment>


New urine test can quickly detect whether a person has a healthy diet - <AUTHOR> http://sciencebulletin.org/archives/9296.html <comment><USER2> Looks like it determines "healthy" based on WHO standards which I did not read up on. Being lazy and on mobile, I did not dig into what the urine report yields (boolean? point scale?). I like the idea, but one worry is that it could give misguided results similar to the "low fat insanity" that has plagued the US for decades and encourage bad dietary habits.

</comment><comment><USER3> I wonder if/when this test will ever be implemented as a condition for setting health insurance rates.

</comment><comment><USER4> My scale also does this.

<comment><USER2> What scale do you have?

<comment><USER4> One that is always telling me I weigh too much :( I don't pee on my scale man.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: I need powerful and very fast, but silent servos. Where? - <AUTHOR>

I'm currently working on a robot, and this robot needs to be really fast. Think of it like a robotic arm, but it needs to move about as fast as a human can turn his head.
For that, I need appropriate servos that can immediately make such a motion, without a long spin-up time. The effect is that natural movements should be simulatable with that.
Of course, I'd like the servos to be as quiet as possible and as small as possible. The question is : what servos do I buy? Money is not a problem. <comment><USER3> I've worked on similar tech before (not for a robot though), and found the best option to be a DC motor + optical feedback sensor. It's also the most cost-effective solution.

Something to keep in mind: tiny servos (and even stepper motors) can provide the blazing speeds you need...... but not with the torque required. Speed and torque are commonly traded-off against one another. You'll need to first determine what sort of resistance/weight the motor will be pulling/pushing, because a lightning-quick motor that will turn in-place the minute any counter-pressure is applied is way worse than a middling-speed motor with decent torque.

<comment><AUTHOR> A DC-Motor with optical feedback sounds like a pretty good option. They are also much cheaper, are they not?

Would I be able to control such a motor appropriately with a standard board like the arduino? Imagine I were moving 2kg 30centimers, and I want this to react as a human hand would (same speed, start time), would this even be possible?

<comment><USER3> Way cheaper.

And controlling it with an arduino is no problem. You've got to main options for the sensor - either an optical tracker that is pointed at the shaft and detects the presence of a striped/marked point which appears once every revolution, or the (cheaper but just as reliable, really) solution of an iR sender/receiver pair monitoring the turning of something (imagine a motor shaft turning a fan. The iR pair would be positioned perpendicular to the fan blades, each time a blade crosses the path of the iR, a signal is generated).

iR is cheaper.

An arduino (or just about any other microcontroller) has an operating frequency way over the rotational speed of the motor. Both optical and iR sensors can easily handle the relatively-slow rotational speed of the shaft. I've used an MC68k from, what, 20 or 30 year old production lines(?) to pull this off. The code is dead simple, just connect the iR/optical output to a counter (which comes built-in in several of the arduino input ports) (you'll need to run it through an inverter first, if you're doing the iR approach) and then loop over the count until it's moved as far as you need it to.

The human hand isn't crazy fast the way you're thinking. If you've ever seen a stepper motor snap from one position to another, _that_ is real acceleration. Basic DC motors typically have lower acceleration than that - <USER2> acceleration and speed will vary greatly depending on the model chosen.

2KG is _not_ a light weight. I would have recommended the stepper approach, but you'll need motors about the size of your fist running at 12V and a relatively high current to rotate an object of that size. Basic statics says that the farther away from the point of rotation a weight is applied, the stronger its force. You've got 2KG distributed (I assume) evenly across the 30cm surface, it's going to be quite the weight to turn against gravity, so stepper motors are out.

Servos, which are basically your run-of-the-mill DC motors with their own close-lood feedback system will work. But you'll have better luck with the larger variety of DC motors available online or in your local electronics store.

<comment><AUTHOR> Nice, that's exactly the info I want to hear. By the way, I need to also measure the position of the object being turned. That is, I was intending for my robot to have two modes - training mode and execution mode, so your DC suggestion makes it even better.

Thing is - I don't want to skimp on the positioning logic - I need it pretty accurate in space (sub millimeter) and in time. Overshooting the target is fine, I'll correct it with one of those algorithms.

What is the most arduino compatible and accurate measurement method that will handle both use-cases? I should be able to use it both to control my DC motor, and also to record the position of the wheel being turned, even when the motor is switched off?

<comment><USER3> You can't. Once your device is switched-off, you can't know what position it will start up in. The easiest option is to have an initialization routine that will move the motor to a known position. For instance, move it all the way clockwise until it jams (assuming there's a limited range of motion) or until it signals a button, whatever that it has reached a position. This is known as calibration or zeroing.

<comment><AUTHOR> What I mean is that the item it is turning is marked, so I can detect it's position. Using infrared perhaps?

<comment><USER4> You can get motors with encoders built into them that are very, very accurate. You can decode their pulses into position with a quadrature decoder like the HCTL-2020.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> If money is not a problem, then I think you should not try to hit the perfect solution the first time. Trying to do that will make it harder to get started. I had to build a linear motion platform last spring. Since I had never done anything like that before I decided to just start buying stuff and testing it. I started with some small servos and brackets from Trossen Robotics - [http://www.trossenrobotics.com/c/hobby-servos-for- robotics.a...](http://www.trossenrobotics.com/c/hobby-servos-for- robotics.aspx) and some Phidgets USB controllers from <http://www.phidgets.com/>

I started with the servos because it seemed cheaper and I could start without having to build a lot of stuff.

Then once I was happy with being able to control a two-axis setup with a little webcam on it using Python on a Linux box, I moved up to some 185oz-in steppers from Keling and some more Phidget stepper controllers. One of the big motors with a toothed belt can lift a full can of paint and hold it indefinitely.

I chose the Phidgets over Arduino because I didn't want to have to simultaneously learn a new toolchain while I was concentrating on the mechanical stuff. I figure I can always go to an Arduino or other controller if I need to shrink things down.

Having now worked with the steppers, I would second the idea of using DC motors with some kind of external feedback, maybe optical shaft encoders or something. Even with steppers, where you can count the number of steps and know where you are, you still really need to be able to run it into a limit switch in order to find some kind of a zero point.

</comment><comment><USER6> Maxon will occasionally donate motors to students in my experience, but I have not found them to be particularly generous with hobbiests and their motors tend to be fairly pricey.

You might consider the motor control packages from this guy <http://www.kelinginc.net/index.html> or similar. They close the loop for you and you position your motor based on a pulse train which can be generated by a variety of devices. The step-direction control of the servo does tend to generate more vibration than other kinds of inputs, but is very easy to interface with.

There are others vendors as well, just search for hobby cnc and servo and examples will pop up. Advanced Motion Control also offers servo amplifiers which take other forms of input than step and direction which might be quieter.

As mentioned before, gear boxes are a big producer of noise as are powertrains in general. Toothed Belt drives, especially at low speeds or capstan drives for finite rotation machines can be very quiet.

To figure out your motor sizing you need to estimate the speeds and forces / torques on your system. From there you can estimate the power your system needs to produce and then calculate a gear-ratio based on the available motor torques and powers available from off the shelf devices. Maxon's catalog has design rules, equations and worked examples if you want samples of the math.

For what it is worth, I would guess that the Kelling 350W motors would be able to move a 2KG mass with what looks to be high accelerations and speeds with a decently designed drivetrain.

</comment><comment><USER4> Maxon is a Swiss company that makes very high power-density motors that are commonly used in high-end robots.

(I don't know if they're the quietest.)

<http://www.maxonmotor.com>

I suspect most of the noise is generated by the gearbox. That makes this seem hopeful: [http://www.maxonmotorusa.com/media_releases_maxon-Koax- Drive...](http://www.maxonmotorusa.com/media_releases_maxon-Koax-Drive- KD-32.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> This is exactly my problem. I can look at the picture and see the information, but how do I figure out if that motor will do what I want it to do without buying it and programming it?

I need to move 2kg through space in a natural manner - is there any series of numbers I can apply that will allow me tell if that motor would be suitable for this?

<comment><USER7> Call them, tell them what you're making, and ask for a sample. If it doesn't work, "adjust" your story. Most suppliers will gladly ship out a sample if it is likely that you would buy in bulk in the future. Some will gladly ship to hobbyists. Depends on the person you talk to.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm unlikely to buy bulk later. You sure that they will give me a free motor just because I ask for it? Sounds...too good to be true :)

<comment><USER7> <http://www.ladyada.net/library/procure/samples.html>

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> DC stepper motors + gecko driver should be a cost effective solution. Define natural movements though.

FYI. For example a head turn does not follow a single axis turn (around Y for example). Imagine a line drawn by eyes as head turns, eyes follow an arc. In fact, every single animal motion (human and other animals) follow an arc. First thing you learn when doing an animation.

</comment><comment><USER9> Forgetting motor type for the moment, you need to give us numbers.

How fast? How much mass must be moved? The inertia of the assembly? Required acceleration?

Once you know this, then you'll know how much power is needed to move the object. At that time you can start searching motor databooks to find one that's suitable.

And then don't forget you'll want to figure out how precise the motion must be (how much overshoot/undershoot is permissible?) so you can start with the electronic/control system design.

Fun stuff!!!

</comment><comment><USER9> Maxon motors are about as quiet a motor as I've ever used. But be prepared to open that wallet wide :-)

[edit] OK, from reading your responses below I think I misunderstood what you meant. I'm not talking about the typical cheap R/C servos. Maxon makes precision balanced motors with just about every parameter you need to know specified. And then you can just put an encoder on the endcap to close the loop.

But the first point still holds: we're talking at least an order of magnitude cost-wise, from R/C servo motors.

</comment><comment><USER10> You'll probably find some in Japanese or German robotics research labs.... good luck buying some off the shelf!</comment>


100 top sites for the year ahead - <AUTHOR> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/dec/18/internet-websites <comment><USER2> That list has a site that lets you file Freedom of Information requests and check out FOIA's that others filed.

That's an interesting idea. Do we have something like that?

I see there's this: <http://www.rcfp.org/foi_letter/generate.php>

I like the idea of making it social though. Create a FOIA and read FOIA's filed by other people to get ideas about what records you should be asking for.

Thoughts?

</comment><comment><USER3> 4% were funded by YC.

</comment><comment><USER4> seems like an empty list, they don't even have Mint for the "Money/finance/ consumer fightback" category....but they made sure to give Twitter related stuff its own category...wtf

<comment><USER5> They also describe zopa as "a human-centred way to loan money to people in the developing world."

Zopa is a great service and I would happily recommend it but the UK, USA, Italy and Japan are not developing nations.

</comment></comment><comment> jim-greer It's good to see JayIsGames getting that link - excellent reviews and commentary on indie, casual, and web games...</comment>


Creating Forms in React in 2020 - <AUTHOR> https://blog.logrocket.com/forms-in-react-in-2020/ <comment><USER2> The custom hook feels overly abstracted, but I'm tired of the repetitive `useState` setups... This seems like a great minimal approach :)</comment>


Java bytecode hacking for fun and profit - <AUTHOR> http://cory.li/bytecode-hacking/

<comment><USER2> I remember discovering that referencing things outside of the local scope cost an extra bytecode back when I did battlecode. Also calling a method cost an extra one too, so ideally you'd just copy paste your methods all over the place!

Surprisingly, Battlecode was much more representative of doing a startup than any hackathon thing I've been to, even though you did silly bytecode optimizations.</comment>


Ask HN: Thoughts on the new landing page for our email reduction service? - <AUTHOR>

https://lightermail.com<p>We're in private beta and just redesigned our landing page. Was hoping to get HN's opinion as to whether we're communicating effectively. <comment><USER2> Very cool styling - there are some messaging concerns as karolisd mentioned.

For instance, I was a bit confused as to why I was reading about other services / how you don't change my inbox labels and configuration instead of reading about what you provide. (The "Manage your inbox, don't change it" messaging)

Are you A/B testing your goals and content? Your email signup goals are fantastically straightforward which a ton of sites are lacking.

Full disclaimer: I am helping with a framework called Xander (<http://www.xander.io>) that does multivariate testing - let us know if we can help. There's also optimizely which is a YC startup and pretty cool for straight A/B tests.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback! We're not yet A/B testing the landing page yet (working up to a more public push where that will come into play). That's a very interesting point about discussing our competitors instead of ourselves.

Xander looks pretty cool. The Google Analytics tie in is crucial. I'll probably be testing it out in the coming weeks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> My main question was "Does this work with Gmail?" and I see you've answered it in the second placeholder text (but not the first) and in the bottom right.

But if it's Gmail-only for now, maybe mention that right at the beginning?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback! We had discussed this some, so it's good to get other opinions on it.</comment></comment>


Power searching using grep - <AUTHOR> http://opensourcehacker.com/2012/05/29/power-searching-using-unix-grep/

<comment><USER2> grep and in general regex mean survival.

i have to admit that in my early unix years i did not understand (the power of) grep until i learnt perl. funny, isn't it?

<comment><AUTHOR> I use it almost every day, but in a very limited way and I can't say I really understand it I just have a feeling that it you could use it so much more

<comment><USER2> what really got me into re in the first place was "the dragonbook" back in 1990. very good background stuff.</comment></comment></comment>


VW electric racer smashes Pikes Peak's overall record - <AUTHOR> https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/24/vw-id-r-pikes-peak-breaks-overall-record/?guccounter=1 <comment><USER2> This is a great record. It's too bad they paved that road, though. It wasn't that long ago that everyone was dreaming of breaking 10 minutes in Unlimited, but a little asphalt has made that very do-able but not as fraught with danger of going over the edge.</comment>


Automatically Applying HLint Suggestions - <AUTHOR> http://mpickering.github.io/posts/2015-11-22-hlint-refactor.html <comment><USER2> I always wanted something similar for C++ to exist. But people seem to think linting is entirely different than thing demonstrated here.

<comment><USER3> clang-tidy will fix (some?) problems it detects, if you pass it the -fix flag.

[http://clang.llvm.org/extra/clang-tidy/](http://clang.llvm.org/extra/clang- tidy/)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What are some good YouTube channels for developers - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Code Bullet is entertaining and probably the accessible to the general public that I've seen.

Strange Loop has a page with a four year backlog of talks, many of which are pretty good.

</comment><comment><USER3> If you interested in Typescript, GraphQL, or React.js you might like my channel [https://www.youtube.com/c/benawad97](https://www.youtube.com/c/benawad97)</comment>


Putin's Goal Is to Bring Down American Democracy - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/putin-american-democracy/610570/ <comment><USER2> If that's Putin's goal I'm pretty sure he can sit back and watch at this point. We've gone from immigration check points being no where near the border to now states and communities enacting their own travel bans and "papers please" check points. Democracy is already suspended in some areas because people protesting this absurdly risk adverse overreaction are being arrested for violation of the rules they are protesting.

He doesn't have to do anything but watch at this point, because most people seem to be welcoming these changes.

How many states have postponed primaries? The real question is will they be postponed indefinitely? With the fear mongering, the lack of likely hood of a vaccine being produced and distributed in the near term means it's very likely. What does that mean for the presidential election, no one knows at this point but I'm guessing plans are being made. Most likely that the president can't remain in power but we can't hold and election so it falls in to the line of succession.

Putin has to do nothing at this point.

</comment><comment><USER3> there is no democracy in America.</comment>


Google to train 2M new Android developers in India over next 3 years - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2015/12/16/google-to-train-2m-new-android-developers-in-india-over-next-3-years/ <comment><AUTHOR> Also related is their Accelerator program for India, Indonesia and Brazil. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10750930](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10750930)

It's a sound strategy: to compete against Apple from the other side of the market scaling that side of the market up.</comment>


Show HN: Experimentera – Crowdsourcing platform for randomized control trials - <AUTHOR> http://www.experimentera.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hi everyone, I just set up this site. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

The site is a crowdsourcing platform for randomized control trials, where anyone can start and/or join an experiment. I do have plans to integrate health and fitness tracking APIs into the site, integrate more machine learning decision-tree models with confidence intervals, and the ability to automatically relaunch experiments for replicability. Thanks!</comment>


We need to put our cameras away - <AUTHOR> http://seersuckermag.com/lifestyle/read/we-need-to-put-our-cameras-away

<comment><USER2> I definitely agree to a certain extent. I go hiking regularly and I wear a chest-mounted camera harness for my DSLR, which I always take. I take 50 to 100 photos on each hike (unless it's a place I've been to before) and I definitely notice that the hike becomes somewhat more passive for me in that regard.

However, in this case I'm documenting the trails for a hiking guide, so there's definitely a legitimate reason for me to do so. Once I have documented an area already, I tend to photograph much, much less along the trail unless I really find something worth taking a photo of and enjoy the hike in a much more active manner as a result.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yea I agree. Separating purpose from pleasure is definitely important. But I would guess photographing for purpose today is in the minority. And I don't think Instagram counts as purpose.</comment></comment>


I bought a Mac. So sue me. - <AUTHOR> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/perlow/i-bought-a-mac-so-sue-me/16509

<comment><USER2> feel sorry for reading this article, this guy is a huge dipshit. so much for my karma.

<comment><USER3> Upvote from me, I similarly don't care if I get karma burned on this one. This tripe can barely be called journalism and certainly doesn't belong on HN.

<comment><USER4> I've seen better posts by teenage girls gushing about some new band on MySpace.</comment></comment></comment>


NetBSD-7.0 developer interview: Leonardo Taccari - <AUTHOR> http://beastie.pl/deweloperzy-netbsd-7-0-leonardo-taccari/ <comment><USER2> Nice to see this appearing on HN, this is shaping up to be a great interview serie!

For info, the first one was with Jeff Rizzo : [http://beastie.pl/deweloperzy- netbsd-7-0-jeff-rizzo/](http://beastie.pl/deweloperzy-netbsd-7-0-jeff-rizzo/)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Well seems we got the hn death hug :)

Contacting the server admin, here's a google cache of the content, sorry for the trouble folks!

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NqbcMBC...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NqbcMBCwAo4J:beastie.pl/deweloperzy- netbsd-7-0-leonardo-taccari/)

<comment><USER3> It's back online. Thank you for sharing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Sincere kudos to Leonardo.

I used to hang out with him and some others in #netbsd-it on freenode some years ago (when I was using NetBSD).

He is a very nice guy.</comment>


Why the U.S. Chills Its Eggs and Most of the World Doesn't (2014) - <AUTHOR> https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/09/11/336330502/why-the-u-s-chills-its-eggs-and-most-of-the-world-doesnt <comment><USER2> Because they scrub the protective coating off them, making them much more vulnerable to spoiling. #stopclickbait

Australia only started washing eggs recently, in the last 10-20 years. Before then you could leave eggs on the bench for 2+ weeks with no issues, now they need to be refrigerated if you're going to keep them longer than a couple of weeks. It's silly.

<comment><USER3> I can't recall ever seeing refrigerated eggs in Australia. Where do you find them?

<comment><USER4> Just bought some from Coles.

<comment><USER5> But at Coles, they're not sold in refrigerated sections. At least the ones I've been to in Melbourne.

Bought free range eggs at Coles yesterday. I still put them in the fridge when I get home out of habit; not sure why now. :)

Edit: Found this article, probably inspired by TFA linked to story. [https://www.businessinsider.com.au/should-you-refrigerate- eg...](https://www.businessinsider.com.au/should-you-refrigerate-eggs-in- australia-2014-7)

<comment><USER6> I stopped refrigerating eggs, when i found out I can make better fried eggs if they're at room temperature. :)

"if you keep your eggs in the fridge, then you should let them come to room temperature before cooking – if you start with a cold egg, then you're more likely to end up overcooking the yolk trying to get the white to set."

[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2012/no...](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2012/nov/08/how- to-cook-the-perfect-fried-egg)

<comment><USER7> Huh. Now here's news I can use!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> European (German) here. Though I've been traveling to the US a couple of times I've never realized the fact that eggs are washed and refrigerated there. Here in Germany eggs come with a best-before date and an additional date stating when you should put them in the refrigerator. Example for eggs bought in the second half of March: best before April 16 2019, chill from April 10 2019.

I usually put eggs in the fridge once I got them from the grocery store, so they will last a bit longer. I've never run into any issues with this and it seems to be way less energy-intensive.

</comment><comment><USER9> Thanks for this post: I've always wondered why I don't have a problem with eating eggs from my backyard hens, even after a couple of weeks sitting on my benchtop, whereas the supermarkets always have them chilled (I'm in Oz). I never knew about the thin film layer on the outside!

<comment><USER10> Honest question: how do you clean your eggs? Chickens are not fastidious about where they poop.

<comment><USER11> When you have 6-20 hens the issue is a bit different from several hundreds. The nesting box tends to be pretty clean and you put in fresh hay to encourage them to lay the eggs there rather than some hidden part of the yard (a constant risk, and spoiled eggs smells similar to that of a decomposing animal except it seems to continues forever).

They don't tend to poop when laying eggs and usually leave the nest imminently when done, being quite loud and signaling to the rest of the troop. Collecting a newly laid egg becomes a bit of routine, and I get a feeling so is the laying of an egg by the hens.

Working with animals you also do get a bit more used to chicken poop and just deal with it if an egg here and there is not perfectly clean. I tend to wash those before using them in cooking. It is pretty fair trade for getting: "free" eggs, insect management in the garden, weed removal, and naturally enjoyment of having social animals.

<comment><USER9> As you say, where the chickens lay is always scrupulously clean (--They keep it that way, moreso than us). The boxes are elevated and they go there just to lay (& tend to sleep nearby, but elsewhere). I've never had poo on the eggs: but even if there were, I'd pretty much ignore it.

<comment><USER12> My parents kept chickens when I was growing up and this is what I remember too, from all the times I was tasked with collecting eggs from the (elevated) boxes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It's funny that if you tried to sell US eggs in the UK, they'd be illegal, and the UK eggs would be illegal in the US.

But Japan has the best eggs and you can eat them raw or half-cooked without any fear of salmonella.

<comment><USER14> There are plenty of countries where you can eat the eggs raw. You just need eggs laid by chickens in a normal environment, rather than from the insanely messed up industrial chicken industry that some western countries have opted for.

<comment><USER15> How does industrial chicken rearing change the quality of the eggs such that it's no longer edible raw?

<comment><USER16> They feed the chickens concentrates and keep them in locked up in "batteries". Some of them die there and they're not removed immediately. There are plenty of horrid videos on Youtube.

Compare that to a soil growing chickens that scrape around for worms and eat grass, corn, wheat and leftovers from the kitchen. In fact that's the best part: you can feed them most most vegetable leftovers as long as they're fresh. Only the younger ones need to be fed some concentrates until they grow up because they're quite vulnerable to diseases carried by other birds, especially pigeons.

<comment><USER17> "Some of them die there and they're not removed immediately"

In the US I don't believe you have to remove the dead chickens before introducing a new generation of chickens to the shed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> it's funny how folks from different countries throw shade on the ones that treat their eggs differently, as if that is an indication of which country is better. Every few months a thread on Reddit gets this going. Nice to see an article that says that both approaches work about the same.

<comment><USER19> Don't mistake it for blind nationalism.

I think EU countries are proud that they can achieve desirable outcomes like long-life, safe-raw, unrefrigerated eggs, through desirable practices. The EU's production is over 40% free range, an increasing chunk organic and depending on where you are, a choice in breed.

If those are the sorts of things that you care about, it is only right to "throw shade" on counties like the US, where 82%(!) of their layers are caged and you _have to_ disinfect the eggs because of their awful conditions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I was originally introduced to the concept of non refrigerated eggs on an episode of the Netflix (branded but not) Original The Big Family Cooking Showdown [0]. They did a home visit and I thought it was weird that they kept their eggs in a box near the windowsill. Obviously since it was common practice they didn't give a background about why it's done that was in England. I've since seen more than a fair share of cooking shows based abroad that have that same unrefrigerated eggs technique, in the back of my mind I'm thinking about the general shelf life and temperature that's needed to keep the eggs from spoiling.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Family_Cooking_Showdow...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Family_Cooking_Showdown)

<comment><USER21> Coming from an unrefrigerated country eggs last 4-6 weeks on the shelf at room temperature (<25°C) from laying date, so generally 3-4 after purchase. Not sure how long they last after washing + refrigeration but I assume it's pretty much the same.

<comment><USER22> 3-5 weeks in the fridge and a year in the freezer [1].

[1] [https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-long-do-eggs- last](https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-long-do-eggs-last)

<comment><USER23> People from all over the world are reading this, just about coming to terms with the idea that Americans store eggs in the fridge and now you're saying they'd put them in the freezer? A step too far!

<comment><USER22> Honestly posting that link was the first time I'd ever heard of someone putting an egg in the freezer. Kinda grossed out right now, not gonna lie.

<comment><USER24> They're honestly exactly the same provided you let them thaw slowly first. Forewarning, I once I tried freezing the eggs in their shells and they exploded all over my freezer. Would not recommend.

I don't eat eggs anymore, but when I did back in my bodybuilding days I'd have containers with raw egg which I'd dump into boiling water for my poached eggs in the morning. These turned out alright. For scrambled eggs or omelettes, putting them in the pan still frozen is a recipe for disaster.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I buy them not refrigerated, and put them in the fridge at home because where I live "room temperature" can easily go as high as over 40C.

South Sardinia, Italy.

</comment><comment><USER26> One thing this article doesn't touch on: the most obvious methed for detecting spoiled eggs is the smell of hydrogen sulfide. Refrigeration increases shelf life but detecting presence of a sulfurous smell is more difficult when the egg is refrigerated. If freshness is in question then allowing the egg to reach room temp prior to giving it 'the sniff test' is recommended.

<comment><USER27> I've always just done the float test, I don't know how reliable that is though.

<comment><USER28> Totally not an expert on eggs nor salmonella, but I've lived in some really dry places and eaten plenty months-old eggs without getting sick from them... The time-to-fail-float-test seems like it's as much about the relative humidity where the egg is stored, as it is about the age of the egg.

I think grandma's advice is probably best: Don't crack eggs straight in to whatever you're making. Easier to fish out shell pieces, and you're not going to accidentally mix in a rotten egg.

<comment><USER29> Nobody told me your grandma's advice, I had to learn that the hard way. In a week I spoiled two omelets and wasted 8 eggs because the last one I cracked into the pan was rotten—twice! Now I always crack each egg into a small bowl before mixing them

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Wow, wait till you hear about unrefrigerated milk!

[https://newrepublic.com/article/119086/europes- unrefrigerate...](https://newrepublic.com/article/119086/europes- unrefrigerated-uht-milk-could-help-save-environment)

<comment><USER31> Long shelf life might be desireable, but the UHT process has a really bad effect on taste. I prefer buying fresh, short expiration date milk.

<comment><USER16> The UHT process destroys milk proteins. I'd rather eat maturated cheese than drink UHT milk any day.

<comment><USER32> It doesn't destroy them - it denatures them meaning they have different form and size etc. You still have the same amino acids in there which is, if we believe in digestive science, all that we need (your body will also break the protein).

I am sure things are more complex then that simple explanation. While I expect less nutrition from UHT milk (vitamins are degraded on higher temperatures, fat globules change their structure etc) its probably safest option out there.

I prefer goat milk. Goats usually eat more diverse food, their milk is more similar to human milk than that of cow, is less industrialized etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Crazy fact from the 19th century: if you store unwashed eggs in a slaked lime solution, they will last more than a year unrefrigerated:

[https://youtu.be/yUYgguMz1qI](https://youtu.be/yUYgguMz1qI)

<comment><USER34> To this day in Chinese and related cuisines there is a technique for chemically preserving eggs: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_egg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_egg)

They're quite odd!

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> This really sucks if you are homeless and don't have a refrigerator. Another great source of protein unavailable. (as once it's washed, you can't safely keep them at room temp anymore).

<comment><USER36> If you are homeless, a much bigger problem is that raw eggs are fragile, easily broken and make a mess when broken. Plus most homeless people have no means to cook.

If you are homeless but living in a vehicle and have some means to cook, there are ways around such issues. For example, you can store cold items in a cooler, no refrigerator required.

When I was homeless and sleeping in a tent, we sometimes kept perishables for short periods by leaving them outside the tent overnight in cold weather or keeping them in the backpack and keeping it out of the sun. If careful, butter sometimes stayed semi solid for a few days.

Modern refrigeration is not the only possible solution. It's just the most familiar for most Americans.

<comment><USER37> you can eat raw eggs

<comment><USER36> Of course you can. You can also eat raw meat. Most people don't.

Plus, a high percentage of homeless Americans have serious health issues. If you are, for example, being treated for cancer, you aren't supposed to eat, for example, raw cookie dough because of the raw egg it contains.

<comment><USER37> Eating raw eggs is a common thing in india, for the protein(although this is incorrect as cooking eggs leads to more protein absorption). However if i were homeless, why wouldn't i just crack open an egg and eat it? There is almost zero risk of salmonella

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Have hens.

We never put the eggs in the fridge. We leave them in the mudroom unrefridgerated until we need them, at which point the eggs het a rinse there before they go to the kitchen for immediate processing.

</comment><comment><USER39> I heard it's not recommended to eat raw eggs in the US. Or perhaps part of the US. Is that a thing? E.g. do people avoid making mayonnaise?

<comment><USER40> I grew up being told that, due to "bad eggs" that could get you sick.

<comment><USER41> In the UK there was a massive scare about Salmonella in eggs in the 80's, which resulted in many people believing it was unsafe to eat raw eggs.

In reality the risk was tiny, and is now non-existent: [https://www.bbc.com/news/health-41568998](https://www.bbc.com/news/health-41568998)

The situation in the US may be different, though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> Okay understood. But does refrigerating them make them last longer? I'm nomading through South America and of course the eggs were not refrigerated. Didn't worry me much, but I still put them in the refrigerator with the assumption that a cold dark environment will make the last longer. no?

<comment><USER43> In the article it says "Another perk of consistent refrigeration is shelf life: It jumps from about 21 days to almost 50 days."

<comment><USER42> Thanks. I skimmed right past it I guess.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> As an American I was always told to be cautious of eating undercooked or raw eggs because of the risk of salmonella. Is this still a real concern of the eggs are pasteurized and refrigerated?

<comment><USER21> Eggs aren't pasteurised, they're sanitised by washing in the US. As the article says this removes the protective coating that keeps bacteria out, so refrigeration is required to reduce bacteria infiltration.

The salmonella would be present on the outside of the egg, so if you're paranoid simply wash the egg immediately before use if you're going to consume it raw.

You're more likely to catch something from a salad these days anyway.

<comment><USER45> You can buy pasteurized eggs, either in-shell or as liquid egg products, in the U.S.

<comment><USER46> I haven't been able to find in-shell pasteurized eggs for years.

You can pasturize them yourself, but the margins are pretty tight, and there is no way to verify you were successful.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Interestingly in France it depends on the shop. Some refrigerate, some not.

Then everyone I know of them promptly in the fridge at home.

</comment><comment><USER48> > We ... Scandinavians, tend to be squeamish about our chicken eggs, so we > bathe them and then have to refrigerate them.

Not here in Norway we don't.

<comment><USER49> No, that sounds inaccurate. Some stores do refrigerate them in Sweden, but they are certainly not washed.

In addition, if any of your hens are found to have salmonella, the entire hen population is killed off: [http://www.svenskaagg.se/?p=20022](http://www.svenskaagg.se/?p=20022)

<comment><USER50> I have never seen eggs being refrigerated

I don't know if eggs are washed or not in Sweden, but I have never seen an egg with poop on it

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Best quote: "a dirty egg with poop on it is no big deal. You brush it off when you get home"

</comment><comment><USER52> Europe vaccinates chickens, USA doesn't. USA chlorinates chicken meat, Europe doesn't.

American chlorinated chicken is widely known about in Europe thanks to brexit

<comment><USER53> It was actually already widely known thanks to the TTIP negotiations (see e.g. [https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ttip- fears/](https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ttip-fears/)).

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> vaccination vs refridgeration

which uses less energy ?

</comment><comment><USER55> [2014]

<comment><USER56> Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> EU average rate of Salmonella is 23 per 100k people, USA is 16 per 100k. So it appears the USA way works better.

<comment><USER22> Sorry, do you have some source data for that? Is the difference entirely attributable to the way eggs are stored and processed, or are the Europeans getting salmonella from other sources? It is my understanding that the US and EU have fairly different agricultural regulatory frameworks.

<comment><USER58> The _confirmed_ incidence rates in years 2015 and 2016 are 14.85 and 14.51 (cases per 100000 population) in the USA, and 21.0 and 20.4 in the EU. Sources:

* National Enteric Disease Surveillance: Salmonella Annual Report, 2016

[https://www.cdc.gov/nationalsurveillance/pdfs/2016-Salmonell...](https://www.cdc.gov/nationalsurveillance/pdfs/2016-Salmonella- report-508.pdf)

* Annual Epidemiological Report for 2016: Salmonellosis

[https://ecdc.europa.eu/sites/portal/files/documents/AER_for_...](https://ecdc.europa.eu/sites/portal/files/documents/AER_for_2016-salmonellosis.pdf)

However, the incidence rates vary widely among European countries. Portugal had very low (< 4) incidence rates over the period 2012-2016, while the figures in Czech Republic over the same period were ridiculously high (around 100).

In the UK, where eggs sold on shelves apparently are required by law _not_ to be washed, the incidence rates in 2015 and 2016 are 14.6 and 15.1, which are on par with the US figures.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> "In America, unrefrigerated eggs can KILL you and you WON'T BELIEVE the reason why."

fixed

</comment><comment><USER60> Mods, please change this garbage clickbait headline to, "Eggs need to be refrigerated in the US because they come pre-washed."

<comment><USER61> It's not clickbait, it's slightly editorialized, but nothing in it is false. The US refrigerates their eggs, and most of the world does not.

<comment><USER60> If this isn't clickbait, what would you consider an example of clickbait?

<comment><USER62> Top 207 reasons why US chills its eggs?

<comment><USER63> Number 4 will blow your mind!</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN:How do you optimize your environment for productivity? - <AUTHOR>

I'm trying to figure out what type of office space I should get.  How much do you think ambient natural light plays on your productivity for developers?  I have Good keyboards, dual monitors, comfy chairs do you think plants are important?  Just seeing if I'm missing anything. <comment><USER2> Not productivity related, but the most important thing IMO that an office should have is a view of the outside. It is more than just something nice to look at. If you spend as much time as I do in front of your monitor(s) you need to regularly focus on something in the middle to far distance to reduce eye-strain. I've done a quick search on the internets to find this: <http://www.pasadenaeye.com/faq/faq08/faq08_text.html>

I've no idea if this is scientifically proven or anything, but looking away from the monitor every once in a while can't be bad for you.

<comment><USER3> I read somewhere that this apparently is also one of the patterns in the book A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander. I don't own a copy yet so I can't confirm this.

<comment><USER4> Workplaces and workspaces are the subject of patterns at each scale. Windows and light are also themes.

Patterns are listed here: [http://www.patternlanguage.com/leveltwo/patternsframegreen.h...](http://www.patternlanguage.com/leveltwo/patternsframegreen.htm?/leveltwo/../apl/twopanelnlb.htm)

The book is excellent, I can't vouch for membership on the website.

The biggest issue with computer monitors and light is of course, glare.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Have a clean desk is my #1. I work in a corner office with 4 windows, 2 in front of me and 2 to my right side, I do believe seeing outside has helped a lot compared to my last job where I had one window behind me. I also setup my whiteboard away from my desk so it causes me to get up. Keep all blinking lights (printers, routers, external HDDs, etc) hidden behind or beneath something. Other than that it's just good headphones and having lots of music.

</comment><comment><USER6> get natural light, get fresh air, get quietness.</comment>


Ask HN: I'm building a Medium alternative. Would you pay to host your blog here? - <AUTHOR> Hey all,
I've been building https://imprint.to, a social blogging platform meant to address issues with Medium. The goals are to...
1. Make content accessible to readers. No paywall, and your content will be discovered by the right audiences. 2. Keep content online, permanently, at the same hyperlink. 3. Let writers own their content. Allow custom domains, provide analytics, and let writers monetize freely. We'll also never tamper with blogs or posts.
I've been thinking about two ways to sustainably monetize the platform.
Option 1: Ads or sponsored posts. Pros: Low barrier for writers to start a blog, meaning more content on the platform. Cons: Ads worsen the quality of news feeds and compromise users' data.
Option 2: charge $5/mo to bloggers for blog hosting.
Pros: Recurring revenue helps fulfill the promise that their content will be online forever (like Svbtle/Posthaven). May select for higher quality posts, as paid users might be putting more effort into their blogs.
Cons: Less content on the platform, which indirectly hurts the community aspect.
What do you think? Would you pay $5/mo for these features? Or do the network effects created by a free/ad model work better? <comment><USER2> Lots of paid blog hosting services around, so clearly some people do pay for that. (And FWIW while I'm not in the target market, a service like this is something I'd recommend over Medium). You frame it as a "Medium alternative" \- what makes it that compared to other blogging services?

<comment><AUTHOR> Most blogging services let you build and host a blog for a monthly fee.

But they don't include the community aspect. I want to preserve the audience that Medium provides writers out of the box, meaning writers on Imprint get both a reliable place to host, but also a good place to find readers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Likely no. I think most people here would rather go through the effort of setting up a static page on Netlify or otherwise. Even if your service is top notch, the features you're describing would definitely eventually require an increase in pricing.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback. For you, would the social aspect with natural traffic coming in make the price worth it?

<comment><USER3> Sort of, but since it's on a platform is it really "natural" traffic?

Think about it, why do you think FinancialSamurai was always just a decent looking WordPress page and never a Medium or FaceBook blog?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> As someone trying to practice my writing via blogging myself, I'd be pretty interested in Option 2.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great to hear! Would sponsored ads on the main feed, but not on your personal blog, be a turn off?

<comment><USER4> Yikes, I missed this! I would say that sponsored ads would be a turn-off, I would personally prefer to pay a subscription in a manner akin to write.as.</comment></comment></comment>


Need help rebuilding my web product - <AUTHOR>

Hey guys... I'm at Stanford right now and I've been building a web product for the past few years and finally have something to show for it (users + revenue... woohoo!)
Now that I have my proof of concept and some solid backing... I've been thinking about re-writing this given my market strategy... but my engineering skills aren't what they used to be and I'm not 100% aware of all the tools and options out there given all the things I want to do (refine recommendations with, etc.)
I'd love to talk to someone who is a project manager or program manager-type and has experience rebuilding entire web products and is familiar with the full stack, and might be able to help me out by helping me think about the pros and cons of various frameworks, and might be able to help me think about the kinds of programming hours/resources I'd need to put into this
thanks!!! <comment><USER2> Hey I work as an engineer for a web startup in palo alto pretty close to stanford. I have worked across the entire stack. Honestly, I don't think any particular choice for a framework/language is going to matter much. You should choose whatever you feel the most comfortable with or have the most experience with. Also, why do you feel compelled to rewrite it? The time you spend rewriting it might be better spent on customer development, marketing, etc. You can contact me at andmahn1@gmail.com if you want to meet up in palo alto.

</comment><comment><USER3> It might pay in certain cases to get directly from the horse's mouth. Talk to web programmers of various stripes to get an idea of what's suitable for you.

Talk to project managers too, but do remember if you ask a PM, you will get a long project plan that will take months - while the market changes right beneath your feet. The reverse applies for programmers, but at least you get to meet people who may be interested in actually working on your actual product

<comment><AUTHOR> that's a really good point, i guess i was hoping not to get stuck into the typical php vs. ruby vs. whatever conversations, wanted to approach it as a discussion around here are the 3 core functions and stay flexible on the languages/frameworks so the PM thing kinda made sense :) in any case it probably makes sense to talk to folks directly as well...

<comment><USER3> Reading your reply, I'm not so sure about what you want. If you want engineering options, talk to an engineer. If you want good design, talk to a designer. Shouldn't you be the PM ?

<comment><AUTHOR> im a bad PM, hence the reason why i need to talk to someone, im not hiring for a position, just trying to have a chat with someone who can share their thoughts</comment></comment></comment></comment>