HackerSurfing: Free Housing and Food for Engineers Visiting SF - <AUTHOR> http://hackersurfing.com/ <comment><USER2> I really hope that some day there is an all female or at least half female hacker house. I really like the idea of a hacker house and love being around smart tech people but some guys don't know how to act around women (I'm sorry but there are guys like that out there and many of them are hackers). It is even worse if you are one of the only single woman in a close community. I've heard from male friends that live in hacker houses that I would feel uncomfortable even though I am a relatively reasonable person and am used to living in messy spaces with other people. Also its nice to be around other women in case you need an emergency tampon or advice on whether you should wear your pumps or your wedges or want to bitch about what its like to be a female hacker.

<comment><USER3> I find the assumption that girls are less messy than boys kind of naive and stereotypical. I suppose messy is ambiguous, does it mean clean or organized?

I remember living in the dorms my first year of college, and I was amused to note that the average boys dorm room was more organized and the average girls dorm room was cleaner. Of course, that is just my experience.

<comment><USER4> I find women are messier but also clean more. So more stuff left lying around but less grime. Where as guys will put stuff away but won't even know if there is a mop in the house.

Completely generalising here based on my own experiences.

<comment><USER5> What's a mop?

<comment><USER4> Not sure if you are just proving my point but here you go: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mop)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> On one hand this seems pretty reasonable. I'm assuming you're going to be out between 20 and 40k if you use a recruiter in the bay area. You can play a lot of games like this if you have 20 to 40k. Reading between the lines it seems like they also select for single/childless people, unless you really expect people to show up with their spouse and children.

Stepping back a moment, I'm stunned and thankful to be an engineer in an environment where lots of people are willing to throw stuff like this at me in return for the possibility I might deign to work with them. Sure beats spamming dozens of companies with resumes and beating my way through hr.

<comment><USER7> I'm thankful and I'm not. On one hand, it's nice to know you're in-demand and can easily earn income. On the other hand, as a working developer, the subtext of a lot of this stuff is frankly pretty offensive.

"Let's throw some stupid, token perks at these developers who don't know how to negotiate for salary so they'll come build my dream!" How about, pay people commensurate with the value they create for your organization and/or demand (in cash, or if you're cash-poor, equity), and stop playing stupid games -- you'll have plenty of candidates.

<comment><USER8> I like the idea of moving some of the risk from the job-seeker to the job- offerer. If the developer gets a hotel room for a week in SF and the trip ends up not resulting in a job, he or she is out hundreds of dollars, and that risk might discourage people from visiting from outside of the bay area. There might be a huge number of developers right on the edge where it doesn't quite make sense for them to take a trip to SF, but free room and board would bring them in. Employers are already throwing tens of thousands per employee at recruiting, so this little investment might make a huge difference compared to other recruiting tactics.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The guy with the laptop in the tub is making me uncomfortable on several levels.

<comment><USER10> That has to be a planned/posed image. There's no way one could focus so intently while hot water bubbles around you..

<comment><USER11> It is possible for sure.

I actually _do_ code in the bathtub, but not like that. You can't reliably hold a laptop on your bare bent legs -- the lack of friction caused by leg hair will make it slide towards you (and into the water if the water is too high). If the guy were to put both hands on the keyboard and code, the laptop would not stay in place.

The only way to do it comfortably is to sit with your legs straight and flat in front of you (in a tub style bath, not a deep jacuzzi like pictured), raise the water level to about .75 inches (2cm) below the laptop (resting on your flat thighs), then lower the flow of water to a hot trickle and open the drain to match the in-flow. The hot trickle is to keep the temperature at a steady state of hotness.

My tub-style bath is not wide enough for my laptop to accidentally fall into the water to the side. The only way it could come in contact with water is if I sloshed around from side to side to make waves, which I don't do.

<comment><USER12> My brother marks his undergrad's papers from his bathtub, and frequently computes there. He has a wood board that goes across the tub. A compromise of ergonomics, but, he maintains its still the best.

<comment><USER11> I actually want to create a bathdesk. My bathtub is layed out like (cross section)

        |
        |wall
        |
        |
        |_     _
        | |tub| |
        | \___/ |___bathroom floor

And I'd make a desk shaped like

        _______
         |   |

So the legs would be like 4 inches and fit into the inside walls of the tub preventing the edge from slipping off the small ledge between the tub and the wall.

That way I could still code with the bathtub more than half full.

<comment><USER13> I'm about as far from a handyman as you can get, but I did manage to make one of these myself. The legs are only about 2" tall, but it sits snug with less than 1/8" wiggle room. While I don't use mine for bringing the laptop to the tub, it has been a delight for books and drinks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Cool, commendable effort. One frustration I have is the (possibly soft) requirement for showing your work ala github profile or something else. I've noticed quite a few job postings where they ask you for a github profile. All my code belongs to my employer and I can't put stuff up on github. Not sure how people who are in this stupid situation deal with the new reality that github is your resume these days?

<comment><USER15> I've been on the same boat (NDA's and stuff) .. my best recomendation is to get involved on opensource and contribute.. I've got tons of good feedback from doing that.

<comment><USER16> I've got plenty of open source code in my github, and the irony is that I don't know if anybody I've interviewed with has ever really looked at it.

They might want to know it exists, but it's not like they do code reviews.

<comment><USER17> I have yet to go to an interview and the employer looked at my github or portfolio. I know it's pushed hard but so far it hasn't mattered in the least.

<comment><USER18> My current one poked through it, but that was three years ago, when just having Github repos at all still had some signalling value.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This marketing approach comes from the time-sharing vacation condo industry. It's common to offer a free weekend in a vacation condo in exchange for two days of listening to high-pressure sales talks.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thankfully, I can guarantee that no one who visits will be subjected to high- pressure sales tactics. Because that would be just lame on both sides - founders want to hire people who are _excited_ to work for their startup.

<comment><USER20> Yeah, it's easy to see how you monetize something like this (hiring a good programmer has $$$ attached to it) and you don't need a hard sell to make it work. It seems like it'd be more like speed dating, where there's an intense sell from both sides but it's low pressure because either side can back out easily.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is brilliant! You could even get the hiring companies to pay your rent for the month if they get a hire :)

Also, I imagine it will be interesting how pre-qualify the guest to make sure they are worthy candidates.

<comment><USER21> That's usually called a relocation bonus.

<comment><USER22> How about we offer a relocation bonus to emergency personnel who work in San Francisco but live in Contra Costa County?

[http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2011/04/24/guess-where- mo...](http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2011/04/24/guess-where-most-s-f- police-officers-and-firefighters-live-hint-not-here/)

"A third of firefighters live in the city, while 16 percent live in San Mateo County, 11 percent in Sonoma County and 8 percent in Alameda County... This could matter tremendously in an earthquake if emergency responders aren't able to make it into the city."

Remember, the 1989 earthquake happened on a clear, windless day. Not so 1906.

<comment><USER23> Firefighters in San Francisco have an average pension of over $108,000 for life after they retire[1]. They are doing just fine pay wise.

[http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2011/06/19/guess-whats- th...](http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2011/06/19/guess-whats-the-average- san-francisco-city-pension/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> This is a great idea and a win win. Now if only we could find the win win solution here: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/opinion/hotel-22.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/opinion/hotel-22.html)

</comment><comment><USER25> Solid recruiting tool! Finding top notch Engineers anywhere is tough no matter where you are - props to people who come up with an innovative approach.

Our startup based here in NYC is doing something similar, lets do a hackersurfing coast-to-coast marathon?

[http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.com/legal- hr/2014/03/11/4-t...](http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.com/legal- hr/2014/03/11/4-tips-for-attracting-google-quality-software-engineers/)

</comment><comment><USER26> He Wefunder guys, thanks for all of this!

Given that this was supposed to happen over a year ago, how realistic is _" In October 2015, the Law changes: Startup investing won't be just for the wealthy"_[0]. Specifically the October 2015 part?

[0] - [https://wefunder.com/jobs](https://wefunder.com/jobs)

</comment><comment><USER27> No no, this was my idea that I was planning to do someday, as soon as I got rich.

Just kidding, great stuff. I hope this lasts and grows.

<comment><AUTHOR> When you are rich, let's join forces and get a bigger, badder mansion!

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> There's a (small) issue with the application form. I linked my linkedin profile, but didn't include the http[s]://, and it threw an error, but then continued submitting the form anyways.

Everything I submitted was kosher, but just in case you're getting any incomplete forms and wondering why.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Awesome, free holiday! Can I bring my wife and 2 year old daughter?

</comment><comment><USER29> Shows the desperation to hire quality employees, but for anyone with solid skills it's a questionable offer, as they likely count on you getting guilt tripped into giving them preference when it comes to job offers while you save peanuts on housing and food (I'd guesstimate that anyone with solid skills could land a six figure job within 2 weeks).

</comment><comment><USER30> I wouldn't be comfortable staying in a house with strangers when I'm already stressed out for being away from home and worrying about days full of difficult interviews. I think the social pressure would crush me and I'd rather stay in a hotel and take time to recharge. It looks like a nice idea for extroverts though.

<comment><USER31> I had the same reaction. If I'm going to be in interviews (however informal) all day for multiple days I'd need to lock myself away in the evening to recharge. I get the impression dinner, drinks, hanging out in the evening would be a part of this as well.

Interesting idea otherwise. Never been to San Francisco/SV and would love to get a taste of what the environment is like there. Maybe an AirBnB for a few days in a hacker house?

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> More of the same that other people are saying -- this is awesome. Don't want to jinx it, but I can't see this not going well, if you get the pay model right and expand when you get the chance and partner with some of the companies constantly flying engineers out for interviews.

</comment><comment><USER33> Great idea! How are you about startup founders visiting? Coz I just applied for a couple of days next week!

(ps: Anyone else going to the SaaStr Annual in San Francisco on Feb 5? I'm stupidly excited about it! I live in Minnesota and we don't get cool stuff like that here.)

<comment><USER33> Also, if anyone else in the SF/Silicon Valley area feels like hosting an out- of-town founder in the enterprise space for a few days in early February... hey, hotels are expensive, I'm poor, and I ain't too proud to beg.

If you have a guitar lying around, I can even play a tune or three.

<comment><USER34> If your budget is above $0 but below hotel rates, have you looked at airbnb? Try searching keyword 'hacker'. There's a lot of extra rooms and hostel-type setups around.

Wish I had a better setup for hosting tech folks, but my friends end up having perpetual dibs on my futon and sharing a single bathroom can suck...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> [http://hackersurfing.com/assets/dinner5_s.jpg](http://hackersurfing.com/assets/dinner5_s.jpg) cracks me up. The guy's got wine in a hottub looking seriously at his laptop.. take a break from work man!

<comment><USER36> Macallan 12 – that's a fine scotch! Also, it appears empty, which probably means he's on break whether he thinks so or not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I think its launch is similar to airbnb's. Instead of making money, they aim to find talented people, far more valuable for startups that seek to find such talent (and who doesn't?). I hope this will be very successful :)

<comment><USER28> Making money is so passé

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Hot tub coding. Is that the new thing?

<comment><AUTHOR> That dude lost a bet. My secret plan is to one day make that photo famous.

<comment><USER39> The empty bottle of Macallan in the background makes it just that much better.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> This should be done in a bigger way, with founders and startuppers offering their couch like people do in www.couchsurfing.com... It would be more than awesome

<comment><USER41> There used to be Startup Stay [ _] Not sure what happened to it.

_ [http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/09/startup-stay-lets-you- cras...](http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/09/startup-stay-lets-you-crash-on-the- worlds-most-entrepreneurial-couches/)

<comment><USER42> See Horizon (my startup): [http://www.horizonapp.co/product- hunt](http://www.horizonapp.co/product-hunt)

Similar to startupstay in some regards, but quite different as well: [http://www.horizonapp.co/blog/horizon-approach- hospitality-e...](http://www.horizonapp.co/blog/horizon-approach-hospitality- exchange/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Great idea guys. I hope you get a chance to host some brilliant people from all over the world.

What's been the rate of visitors/job offers since you began hosting?

</comment><comment><USER44> Upon reading the headline, my first thought was, "Good Grief! Are engineers paid so little these days!?"

If I can find my jaw, I might just read the article.

</comment><comment><USER45> It would be nice to have a community of Hacker Surfing so you can go somewhere, code something then go somewhere else and code some more... It would be like nerd consulting vacation, Then when you get back from the coding they come with the job offers :) Then you get to be like the guy who has already commited his code to github and is safe to be with his Mac on the Tub!

</comment><comment><USER46> So can I use this as an alternative to crashing on the couch at noisebridge?

/s

I'm planning on making a trip to SF in the next couple of months to hang out there for a while, and while I'm not really looking to move there (Phoenix actually has a pretty cool tech scene right now if you know where to look), if the right offer came my way, I wouldn't be against it.

Can I stay at your house?

<comment><USER47> What are some of the highlights of the Phoenix tech scene going on now?

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> The WeFunder guys are awesome, super nice people!

</comment><comment><USER49> I just applied and this is really a perfect fit for me. However, I have a hard time seeing who else would be interested in this opportunity. I'm currently traveling and bouncing around so spending some time in San Francisco sounds great.

Anyone else who signed up, what position are you in where living in San Francisco for a couple days works for you?

<comment><USER50> > I have a hard time seeing who else would be interested in this opportunity

Really? SF is one of the most expensive cities in the world, and we're pretty much at the apex of interest in "comp sci" in 2015. My guess is that their inbox will have hundreds of thousands of applications in short order.

<comment><USER49> It's not free rent. Its just for up to a week. Similar situation to job interviews, but most of them will pay for accommodation if they fly you out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Looks very cool. Do you accept people from Europe who'd like to work in SF, too, or is this only for US residents?

</comment><comment><USER52> Only slightly related, but something I've always wondered.. can a residential house the founders live in, and employees work in, be claimed as a legitimate business expense? I see this quite a lot in the US. I looked into it here in the UK and it doesn't work out particularly well tax-wise.

<comment><USER53> The rough answer (I'm not an expert) is that you can deduct costs for a room used 100% for business.

Put a TV in it and you're at risk of it being considered personal space.

I _think_ it's possible to deduct a space as some _fraction_ of the time used for work, but there may be a minimum threshold? I know it can work at 100%, but it's hard to prove 100% business usage -- and I've also heard that it's a tax audit trigger (as in, it raises your chance of being audited).

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> I wish, system administrators and devops engineers who does not code for a living were this much appreciated.

</comment><comment><USER53> Very cool, though personally I'm not interested in moving back to the Bay Area.

The site implies that you're not interested in remote employees, which is a shame; not everyone wants to live in California, and some people have an extended track record of successfully working remotely (ahem ;).

<comment><USER14> It is kind of silly ... in tech, we've got all these amazing tools that enable people to work remotely. I've seen people checkout even though they come in to the office, and people work like superstars while they are remote and working in the middle of nowhere. If you get on a plane once every month or so to hang out with the team, I can't see how it affects anything.

Same is true of investors. Not every great idea in tech comes from the valley.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> This is really cool. Congrats, guys.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! Hope we meet some cool people. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> and Sun Country Air has NY->SF roundtrip flights running for just $260... [http://www.kayak.com/flights/NYC- SFO/2015-02-18/2015-02-26](http://www.kayak.com/flights/NYC- SFO/2015-02-18/2015-02-26)

</comment><comment><USER57> For those serious about creating an environment for women hackers, please contact me. My organization can be the 501(c)(3) fiscal sponsor and we can start a fundraiser campaign ASAP, just like Chapter 92 of Eat. Pray. Love, the movie.

</comment><comment><USER58> The culture of SV is so much better now than when it was dominated by old- school stodgy hardware companies. Its so much more open-minded and pay-it- forward oriented with initiatives like this. Long live this spirit of innovation.

</comment><comment><USER59> Is this going to be an ongoing thing? I actually just "semi-moved" (couch surfing with friends) to SF last week and I'd be interested in trying this out but I still need to update my Github quite a bit...

</comment><comment><USER60> ...Or you could hire remote workers! I'm currently living in SF, but will be moving because of my girlfriend's new job. I'm finding it very hard to find remote roles despite the job shortage.

</comment><comment><USER61> How about free housing and food for engineers who already live in SF?

<comment><USER22> How about free housing for firemen who can't afford to live in SF?

<comment><USER62> You've made a bunch of posts about Firefighters in S.F. Everything I'm seeing is that S.F. Firefighters are some of the highest paid in the world, and have amazing pensions on top of their salaries. I'm curious what your reasoning here is? Just that they live elsewhere doesn't mean they aren't paid enough, it could just mean they prefer to live in another area...

Several firefighters making over $300,000/year - [http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/25/san-francisco-fire- lieu...](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/25/san-francisco-fire-lieutenant- makes-221000-in-ot-due-to-understaffing/)

F.D. is the highest paid city dept - [http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-Fire-Dept- dominate...](http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-Fire-Dept-dominates- list-of-highest-paid-5085237.php)

S.F. F.D. has highest pay in the area - [http://sfappeal.com/2010/08/highest- paid-cops-and-firefighte...](http://sfappeal.com/2010/08/highest-paid-cops- and-firefighters/)

S.F. F.D. salaries are #3 in the country - [http://careers.top5.com/top-5-highest-paid-fire- departments-...](http://careers.top5.com/top-5-highest-paid-fire-departments- in-the-country/)

<comment><USER63> > Several firefighters making over $300,000/year

These were due to excessive overtime. The Lieutenant who made $300k ($50k more than the Chief) tripled his base salary.

> Just that they live elsewhere doesn't mean they aren't paid enough, it could > just mean they prefer to live in another area

It means that in a major disaster like an Earthquake, SF might find many of its emergency responders (not just firefighters) stranded on the far side of the bay.

<comment><USER64> > These were due to excessive overtime. The Lieutenant who made $300k ($50k > more than the Chief) tripled his base salary.

How many hacker news readers do you suppose that work "overtime" get paid for it?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Looks sweet, but in the FAQ they say they can only host 2 people at a time.. given the amount of interest this seems to be getting, seems like it'll be tough to land a spot.

</comment><comment><USER66> The guy on the landing page, sitting in a jacuzzi with Mac and empty bottle of scotch, with the pose of an Ancient Greek Philosopher: advertising at its best!!

</comment><comment><USER67> Looks pretty cool! As someone who already has housing in SF, do you ever open up the Wednesday dinners to non-surfers, or have any other open events?

<comment><USER68> i would be interested as well

</comment></comment><comment><USER69> What is an equivalent service in NYC?

Do you have plans to extend to NYC?

</comment><comment><USER70> I want to come crash here for a week in April while looking for more permanent lodgings. Sounds much easier than trying to rent in SF remotely.

</comment><comment><USER71> TANSTAAFL. Of course it's a recruiting thing.

</comment><comment><USER72> It's located in a pretty decent neighborhood.

</comment><comment><USER73> This is really awesome. I hope to go again one day to SF and stay some days at HackerSurfing.

</comment><comment><USER74> Wow badass. Hopefully this is still up and running when my current noncompete expires.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ha! Just contact me. We'll make an exception for you. :P

<comment><USER74> I will!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER75> Amazing! Wish it was theres last year I went. Hopefully I can make it again this year!

</comment><comment><USER76> Does the near-highway location of the house concern anyone else?

The correlation between near-highway air exposure and adverse health outcomes is well documented and I have not found a single study, article, etc that disputes the correlation. Below are three articles and snippets (emphasis mine) regarding the aforementioned correlation and how quickly the pollution levels drop over short distances from the freeway.

source: [http://now.tufts.edu/articles/big-road-blues-pollution- highw...](http://now.tufts.edu/articles/big-road-blues-pollution-highways) "Throughout the 1980s and early '90s, _dozens of studies found links between fine particulate pollution and cardiovascular health_. One of the largest and most influential of these, the Harvard Six Cities Study, followed more than 8,000 participants in six towns across the Midwest and New England. Over 15 years, the initial phase of the study tracked each person's health and measured particulate levels in the air over their communities. Its findings, first released in 1993, showed that _even a minuscule increase in fine particulates (just 10 micrograms per cubic meter of air), could cause up to an 18 percent bump in cardiovascular disease_." ... there's reason to think that ultrafine particles, which the EPA does not regulate, are even more insidious than their larger counterparts ... ultrafines can fluctuate dramatically over the course of a morning or afternoon, depending on the weather and how many cars and trucks are on the road. Ultrafines are also _confined to a relatively small area ... close to major highways, often spiking dramatically within a few hundred meters of the source_."

source: [http://www.scpcs.ucla.edu/news/Freeway.pdf](http://www.scpcs.ucla.edu/news/Freeway.pdf) "Studies conducted by SCPCS investigators here in LA show that carbon monoxide and ultrafine particles – the smallest portion of particulate matter emissions and potentially the most toxic – are _extremely high on or near the freeway, dropping to about half that concentration 50-90 meters (~165-295 feet) from the freeway_ ..."

source: [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1971259/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1971259/) " _People living or otherwise spending substantial time within about 200 m of highways are exposed to these pollutants more so than persons living at a greater distance, even compared to living on busy urban streets_. Evidence of the health hazards of these pollutants arises from studies that assess proximity to highways, actual exposure to the pollutants, or both. Taken as a whole, the health studies show elevated risk for development of asthma and reduced lung function in children who live near major highways. Studies of particulate matter (PM) that show _associations with cardiac and pulmonary mortality also appear to indicate increasing risk as smaller geographic areas are studied, suggesting localized sources that likely include major highways_. Although less work has tested the association between lung cancer and highways, the existing studies suggest an association as well. While the _evidence is substantial for a link between near-highway exposures and adverse health outcomes_ , considerable work remains to understand the exact nature and magnitude of the risks."

</comment><comment><USER77> that guy working in a jacuzzi did not understand life.

\--> [http://www.hackersurfing.com/assets/dinner5_s.jpg](http://www.hackersurfing.com/assets/dinner5_s.jpg)

<comment><USER59> I dunno about you but I've never tried working naked in a jacuzzi after having finished an entire bottle of McCallan 12 Year so I can't say I wouldn't enjoy it... maybe he just knows something the rest of us don't.

<comment><USER78> And getting your picture taken at the same time. I think that's the key...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER79> do you plan to support founders who come to SF to seek funding?

<comment><USER80> Interested in this as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER81> Gnarly idea, I wish much success to y'all.

Host college students too or nah?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sure, college students are cool too.

<comment><USER81> Heck yea, once I get more projects under my belt I'll see about applying. Good on you guys for doing such a cool thing 👍

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER82> This is neat, would be nice to see it on a global scale.

</comment><comment><USER83> That's awesome. Wish I could relocate to SF.

</comment><comment><USER22> Read about Sit/Lie and how SF voted to criminalize homelessness in 2010, and you'll see why these "hostels" for tech workers are needed now more than ever.

</comment><comment><USER84> You should make a Couchsurfing profile too.

</comment><comment><USER85> Next free housing for all.

</comment><comment><USER86> How do they keep all girls away from this place? I'm kidding of course.

</comment><comment><USER87> Wow.

</comment><comment><USER88> I've got the personality of John Carmack (or lack thereof), could I still get in?

</comment><comment><USER89> Any plans on making this international? Otherwise, may I suggest the following as a domain instead: hackersurfing.co.us or something along those lines.

</comment><comment><USER90> The picture of the guy in the tub, with laptop, says so much about what is wrong with tech culture.</comment>


The productive, bizarre career of Nobel laureate Elie Metchnikoff - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/issue/36/aging/the-man-who-blamed-aging-on-his-intestines <comment><USER2> Stambler's book also covers Metchnikoff: [http://www.longevityhistory.com/book/indexb.html#_Toc3283199...](http://www.longevityhistory.com/book/indexb.html#_Toc328319983)

</comment><comment><USER3> Metchnikoff had the right attitude to the relationship between aging, health, and science - i.e. that we should treat it as a medical condition and work to fix it - but the misfortune to be born far too early for that goal to be practical.

Some of the International Longevity Alliance folk promote May 15th as Metchnikoff Day, a time to remind the rest of the world that we should be working to cure aging:

[http://www.longevityforall.org/170th-anniversary-of-elie- met...](http://www.longevityforall.org/170th-anniversary-of-elie-metchnikoff- the-founder-of-gerontology-may-15-2015/)

Metchnikoff wrote a short book entitled "The prolongation of life; optimistic studies", and it is well worth reading since it can be found online. He had very modern attitudes in this respect, and the debates he reports having with people around him vis a vis the desirability of treating aging as a medical condition are exactly the same as those occurring today.

[http://archive.org/stream/prolongationofli00metciala/prolong...](http://archive.org/stream/prolongationofli00metciala/prolongationofli00metciala_djvu.txt)

How do we know that we are not too early, like Metchnikoff, or like the optimists of the 1970s? When it comes to our understanding of biochemistry and ability to manipulate our cells, we are as far beyond the 1970s as the 1970s were beyond the gentlemen-scientists working at the end of the 19th century. Why, however, is it different this time? Why are the seekers after agelessness now rational scientists rather than another crop of self-deluded fools or earnest workers overestimating the bounds of the possible? This is a question that crops up. I can recall numerous conversations over the years in which I was informed that someone knew an older fellow who was, back in the day, quite confident in the forthcoming existence of longevity-enhancing therapies, and yet where are those treatments decades later?

So why is it different this time? For one there is SENS, a detailed plan of development leading to rejuvenation treatments that could be prototyped in mice given a billion dollars and ten years, give or take. No such plan could have been formed a century ago, and while much of the basic knowledge that informs the SENS viewpoint of aging as an accumulation of cellular and molecular damage existed in the 1970s, SENS could not have been proposed as a serious project at that time even had someone had the realization. There was simply no way to even guess at how much time and money it would have required to build the tools to build the tools to develop the validation of the theories so as to build the tools to build the tools to develop the therapies, and so forth: it would have been a project on the scale of going to the moon, and with far less certainty of success.

More importantly none of the proposed paths to add decades or more of healthy life put forward in past generations, now obviously naive and wrong, were in any way rigorous or supported by large fractions of the scientific community. Only now do we have that, built on the vast body of knowledge of biology accumulated over the last century, and on the new tools of biotechnology of the past few decades. Only now are large numbers of scientists putting their careers and their reputations into the extension of healthy life. Only now do we have SENS approaches demonstrating life extension and improved health in mice, such as the senescent cell clearance studies published this year, and companies working on implementations.

Why is it different this time? The fact that funding for various scientific establishment efforts to extend life is growing rapidly. Most of these are in fact not going to move the needle all that much, but that isn't the point. The point is that the consensus in a significant fraction of the scientific community and its surrounding institutions of funding and review is that the time has come. Investment and interest in any given field are cyclic, and this present cycle will see billions poured into this field, and old narrow views of the implausibility of life extension swept away. Scientists are the arbiters of truth in our culture, though this is sometimes hard to see, and the rest of the world will follow their lead when deciding whether to take something seriously. That will create a feedback loop of funding and progress in which, yes, a lot of less useful work will thrive, but so will significant approaches such as SENS.

None of this was the case for past generations of what turned out to be deluded optimism. It is the case now. The times have changed, and it is different this time around.</comment>


Domain Names Aren't Irrelevant, But They May Just Become So - <AUTHOR> http://www.dnfblog.com/domain-names-arent-irrelevant-but-they-might-be-in-the-future/

<comment><USER2> Wow, they have a huge, annoying flash video on the bottom left. Good that I use FlashBlock.</comment>


Fight the MOOCopalypse - <AUTHOR> http://computinged.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/fight-the-moocopalypse/

<comment><USER2> This article might have been interesting had its author ever bothered to define the acronym "MOOC".</comment>


ESR: Computer Language Trends in 2009 - <AUTHOR> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1016 <comment><USER2> As for why Tcl won't just up and die, see the SQLite testing thread. Tcl's built like that too, and built well: native threads, Unicode, a very extensive C API. Definitely some pieces missing (OO), but they are being actively worked on. In other words, Tcl is not the most popular thing out there by a long shot, but it's not "dying" either.

<comment><USER3> Tcl is still great when you need to whip up a testing wrapper for a C/C++ library but I think these days Lua is doing a better job at the original goal Tcl set out to accomplish.

<comment><USER4> I have to admit, I really like Tcl's syntax. Some issues, but it was something you could programmatically manipulate without huge pains. And the C interface was quite pleasant, particularly if you had ever dealt with contemporary Perl modules. I was looking into it many years ago as an extension language that was simultaneously not extraordinarily lame but not permitting you raw hardware access, either, and liked what I saw.

But the core design didn't age well, I don't think; dynamic variables, little consideration for modular programming, primitive data structuring tools, etc. I like looking at Tcl-without-the-warts type languages, but it's really just masturbation. Lua is almost as flexible and certainly better put together.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, I remember when I needed Tcl. I bought a book with good reviews, cleared a long Saturday afternoon and sat down to read. Shockingly few minutes later I'd learned the syntax and understood the idea... cool.

(I assume it is the same time frame as your experience, since yours were before the Inline::C module.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Looks like we Erlang people can remain as a cool underground movement.

Thank you ESR.

<comment><USER7> Erlang has 40 projects on freshmeat: <http://freshmeat.net/tags/erlang>

        Java   5316
        C++    4824
        Perl   3730
        Python 3161
        ...
        Erlang   40

It may be that Erlang people don't add their projects to freshmeat.

<comment><USER8> People still go to Freshmeat?

<comment><USER7> Hey, do the math. :-) Where else are projects announced? Do they have comparable numbers? I guess there's _hosting_ at sourceforge, google code and github - but are they easy to browse? (I've never browsed them... I just had a go at github, it's mindbogglingly slow to serve every page, also few java projects). I'm asking these three (3) questions out of curiosity.

<comment><USER9> Where are you located? GitHub's average page response is 400ms according to our NewRelic data.

<comment><USER7> Thanks for asking. I'm in Melbourne, Australia

ping github.com = 192ms

loading <http://github.com/bmizerany/sinatra/tree/work> = 11000ms (11 secs)

wget of the same took between 1000-5000ms (1-5secs)

If there's a lot of javascript, that might be slowing it down.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Perl projects and modules exist in CPAN, so the data has very little relevance. Perl developers tend to push FOSS modules, not complete systems.

</comment><comment><USER11> Favorite quote: "Perl has become the COBOL of web design"

<comment><USER12> Awesome...except it isn't true. CPAN grew more in raw number of distributions than both RubyForge and PyPI in the time span under discussion.

<comment><USER13> CPAN vs RubyForge vs PyPI isn't exactly an appropriate comparison.

Take a look at:

[http://www.google.com/trends?q=python%2C+perl%2C+ruby&ct...](http://www.google.com/trends?q=python%2C+perl%2C+ruby&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0)

vs

[http://www.google.com/trends?q=cpan%2C+pypi%2C+rubyforge&...](http://www.google.com/trends?q=cpan%2C+pypi%2C+rubyforge&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0)

Google Trends isn't a great measurement tool, but the 3 languages have similar search volumes (with Perl declining, Python stable and Ruby ascending), yet CPAN is has a much higher volume than either RubyForge and PyPI. I think the relevance of each repository to its language community isn't comparable.

<comment><USER12> I think new lines of code being written is a pretty appropriate metric. The assertion is that Perl is dead or dying rapidly (the COBOL of web development), but the sheer number of new lines of code being written in Perl (the accelerating number of contributions to CPAN means that more new lines of code are being written today in Perl than 6 years ago) makes that a nonsensical assertion. Python and Ruby don't have to be unpopular for Perl to remain popular. They don't have to be killing Perl to be doing well...they are doing well, growing rapidly, etc. But so is Perl.

That's my only point. Dynamic languages are growing in popularity, and Perl is among them. And, if Perl doesn't grow as fast as Ruby and Python, that's fine, too. It'll still be a few years before Python and Ruby catch up to Perl in usage and lines of code and number of projects. (And none of them will ever catch up to PHP. JavaScript might, though.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> davidw runs a site that does much more comprehensive stats:

<http://langpop.com/>

</comment><comment><USER15> I don't think this is a very valid comparison. Sourceforge is not popular as a repository for a number of the more "modern" languages, and seems to focus more on "end user ready" projects than modules, plug-ins, etc, which is perhaps the primary delivery format for projects in the script-y languages.

Even if you included more repositories, though, still - what's the point? It's good to see trends, yes, but at least try and keep them in the same general domain. No-one is going to be making a choice between developing in C or in Ruby; they are different worlds in so many ways. And even counting projects is a bad metric in itself; someone starting a C project might be expected to have some reason for doing so, and thus he might be likely to at least half-finish it; Ruby "projects" are so easy to start that many developers don't seem to feel the day has really begun until they've tossed off half a dozen crappy new gems.

Nice talking point I guess but I wouldn't read much into these. And personally I am happy to see the fast rate of change and evolution. I would like to see it accelerate even faster. In particular I am hoping to see a mass migration towards a more distributed, federated project hosting paradigm; hopefully the next step after everyone is comfortable with git and the other DSCM systems, which will render this kind of "trends" article even harder to write :D</comment>


Show HN: BuildBubbles – Podcasts with Sound Design from WordPress Articles - <AUTHOR> https://buildbubbles.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hi everyone! I'm Max from BuildBubbles.

More people are blogging than ever. But at the same time, more people today prefer to listen rather than read. So, we thought: What if bloggers could offer a way for people to listen to their content?

Converting a written blog to a podcast involves what's known as text-to- speech. But text-to-speech alone cannot create podcasts that connect with people. Good podcasts need more than a voice to tell the story: They need music and rhythm to create an emotional impact.

That's why we came up with BuildBubbles. It's a web app that can help bloggers easily make awesome podcasts without a microphone or studio equipment.

Bloggers do not even need to know how to edit the podcast. BuildBubbles converts written blog posts into compelling podcasts with sound design! With BuildBubbles, your blog will stand out and you'll reach a much wider audience.

As a content provider, you spend a lot of time creating interesting content. Make sure it reaches as many people as possible!

BuildBubbles is easy and intuitive. Just three steps and a few minutes and it's done! 1\. Paste a link of your WordPress blog post you'd like to convert to a podcast 2\. Choose the BuildBubbles podcast template and voices you want 3\. Edit your podcast if you wish.

Once you're finished, you can download it or embed it in your blog.

We currently have eight templates with ten voices (more are coming) and 100+ choices of music in our library. Our templates are versatile and can be used for a variety of podcasts. We are planning to add more templates every week. We will support languages other than English in the future and add more voice selections.

Please give it a try! We'd love to hear your feedback.

</comment><comment><USER2> Just shared this with a client, thanks for the info!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback from you guys. :)

<comment><USER2> Just wanted to let you know our client decided to sign up for your service. Thanks again!</comment></comment></comment>


Open-Sourcing Habana Back End for Glow - <AUTHOR> https://code.fb.com/open-source/glow-habana/ <comment><USER2> In case you are confused: Habana is an AI processor startup: [https://habana.ai/](https://habana.ai/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Glow, the machine learning compiler that is developed as part of PyTorch, is described here: [https://arxiv.org/abs/1805.00907](https://arxiv.org/abs/1805.00907)</comment>


Don't Jump Off the Cliff with a Parachute - <AUTHOR> http://ethanfast.com/2012/03/startups-off-the-cliff-with-a-parachute/

<comment><USER2> Ethan, just to clarify... When you say you're not enrolled in your Ph.D programme anymore, I'm assuming you're saying you dropped out.

I'm doing an M.Sc. right now, and it's been seriously delayed because of my own entrepreneurial endeavours; my funding ran out a long time ago, so the parachute kind of... disappeared on me. More to the point, my thesis has changed from being my fallback to a mental burden that I keep thinking about but never manage to find the time to finish.

I'd be curious to hear more about your experience. Did you find that your Ph.D was keeping you from investing your whole heart into Proxino? Or that it was too much of a distraction to try to do both at the same time?

I _think_ I'm going to finish mine, because it's sooo close and I've managed to find, for the last few weeks anyway, a few hours a day to push it towards the finish line. But it has definitely been an impediment to the business; likewise, the business has been a huge drain on the thesis :)

I'd really like to hear more about your experience though!

<comment><USER2> Oh, just a small side-note: I'll likely be citing Proxino in my thesis, so you're still building a citation count :P

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Just so you know, Chrome warned me that your startup Proxino.com is a dangerous site.</comment>


Your Startup's Pitch Needs Only These 10 Slides - <AUTHOR> http://blog.visual.ly/10-slides-pitch/ <comment><USER2> This is a tarted up version of Guy's 10/20/30 rule of PowerPoint:

10 slides -- because that's the max a viewer will hold in their head

20 minutes -- because that's the max people will pay attention

30 point font size, minimum -- because people can read it, and you won't cram too much on

These guidelines are useful for all kinds of presentations because it imposes some structure and some constraint on material.

Like all rules of thumb, smart people see the exceptions.

Monday Note says you only need three slides, which I also like. Broadly:

1\. Who we are.

2\. What we want to do.

3\. How we'll make it work, the money pump.

Guy 10/20/30: [http://guykawasaki.com/the_102030_rule/](http://guykawasaki.com/the_102030_rule/)

Monday Note: [http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/05/04/three-slides-then- shut-...](http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/05/04/three-slides-then-shut-up-the- art-of-the-pitch/)

</comment><comment><USER3> After much clicking through, it seems like this is the best view of the original:

[http://visual.ly/only-10-slides-you-need- pitch](http://visual.ly/only-10-slides-you-need-pitch)

<comment><USER4> And here is a link straight to the image (which is the only important content in this case): [http://thumbnails-visually.netdna-ssl.com/the- only-10-slides...](http://thumbnails-visually.netdna-ssl.com/the- only-10-slides-you-need-in-a-pitch_54ff86ab42e89.jpg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> OP doesn't add much to the original[1]. They also have a full-sized infographic[2].

[1] [http://blog.visual.ly/10-slides-pitch/](http://blog.visual.ly/10-slides- pitch/)

[2] [http://thumbnails-visually.netdna-ssl.com/the- only-10-slides...](http://thumbnails-visually.netdna-ssl.com/the- only-10-slides-you-need-in-a-pitch_54ff86ab42e89.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER6> What is interesting to me about this is how quickly this simple image exploded all over the net. I linked a few sites below that all are very similar to this. They have that simple infographic, a link to Kawasaki's page and the well known adage less is more. Image has been circulating since at least march 18th and already appears at ~100 domains. Just found another on entrepreneur.com[4]

</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>=

Edit: OP I am sorry if you are a legitimate entity but this image appears on 100 different domains, the article title appears across many as well. I have found the exact fraise on different articles across the web and your account is only 16 days old with 3 comments. I apologize, but I am flagging this, it is a stub article of blogspam and is not the original source (kawasakis site) so I am flagging this.

</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>=

edit 2: I unflagged this post[5]

lifehacker[0]

marketingprofs.com[1]

finance.yahoo.com[2]

pinterest.com[3]

[0][http://lifehacker.com/the-10-slides-you-need-to-pitch- your-b...](http://lifehacker.com/the-10-slides-you-need-to-pitch-your- business-idea-1691072480)

[1][http://www.marketingprofs.com/chirp/2015/27357/the- only-10-s...](http://www.marketingprofs.com/chirp/2015/27357/the- only-10-slides-you-need-in-a-pitch-infographic)

[2][http://finance.yahoo.com/news/only-10-slides-needed- pitching...](http://finance.yahoo.com/news/only-10-slides-needed- pitching-181011923.html)

[3][https://www.pinterest.com/pin/206110120423126618/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/206110120423126618/)

[4][http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/244098](http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/244098)

[5]still quite skeptical but I would rather let a spammer go free than boot a real user.

<comment><AUTHOR> Vonklaus, I can assure you it was not my intention to spam anything. I went on Kawasaki's website before posting on HN and could not find any reference of it. Clearly, as you pointed out, I did not check if the same content was already in other sites/articles/blogs. Since it came from Inc.com, which is quite a common source, when posting it on HN I thought it would flag as already posted by somebody else. But it wasn't. Anyway, in the future I will check if any article i would like to post is already too common on the web.

<comment><USER6> </comment></comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>=====

edit: I unflagged the post.

</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>=====

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. Let's leave it to the mods to resolve. :)

<comment><USER7> this is the first time I'm seeing this image so I'm glad it wasn't flagged in the end

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Not so different from what we have known since 2007 [1], right? It would be nice if we could focus on discussing the diffs of what was cool in 2007 and what is cool now, instead of presenting a complete new deck that isn't all too different. Building on existing stuff instead of building from scratch.

[1] [http://venturehacks.com/articles/deck](http://venturehacks.com/articles/deck)

</comment><comment><USER9> In my experience, this is horseshit.

You should make your deck as simple as possible but no simpler. Really, you want it customized to whom you're pitching. If your audience wants to know a lot more about your financials, then one slide probably isn't enough. If he wants you to go deep about your solution, then one slide isn't enough.

If it's just you and your audience knows your background well, then you don't really need to waste time on a slide about yourself. It just comes off as self-preening. If it's an ambitious project with a lot of moving parts, then you will need multiple slides to get through your team.

Presenting to an audience is about knowing and serving your audience. A lot of people don't want to waste time on a deck, because all it really represents is time you blew on a deck.

You can clearly see how much time Guy blew on his 10 slides presentation from how gorgeously it's laid out- a lot. When you see that sort of thing, it means a lot of copy editing happened to get the text just the right length. In other words, the tail was wagging the dog.

What's noticeably missing is any meat. If 10 slides are what you need, show me actual correlation between length of deck and closed funding and how that centers around 10 slides, and isolate other factors to demonstrate causation. You won't find that in his pitch, because there is no correlation. It's mostly about who you are and/or a demonstration of progress.

I've closed more money with a demonstration of the product's progress than the right deck. It's more important to execute (you can stop here if you like) and then for extra credit, show your pitch to multiple potential backers at the same time in order to improve odds you'll have multiple options that can hurry each other along.

<comment><USER10> +1 to killer demos, my favorite tactic as well( _), but obviously only where appropriate - there 's lots of things you can't 'demo' and instead use an appropriate proxy, e.g. testimonials from famous people. Works best if the demo is actually aligned with product development and not a distraction for fundraising.

-1 to whining about glossy decks: for consumer products where design is key, the decks have to reflect your aesthetic.

re killer demos - after killer demos, I immediately get hammered by go-to- market questions, thus demanding a slide deck for visual thinkers... which in turn requires integration with the demo, so you end up with the usual formula:

1\. audacious vision (~1-3 slides) ==> audience thinks, "no way, can't be done."

2\. ...KILLER DEMO... ==> oh sh_t, they did it. My head just exploded.

3\. team, go-to-market, competition, etc. (~5-7 slides) ==> these guys are serious and have thought it through.

adam

(*) $100+M, 6 deals, 20 years, two recessions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Nothing new there... It would be cool to have current and successful examples of decks by stage (concept, prototype, growth...)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I have dug out a Techcrunch article which tries to give a more data-based approach to the whole thing (looking in reality at the whole funding search process, not only at the number of slides. Clearly there are some limitation in what they tried to do, but it beats the generalistic "This-is-all-you-need- in-your-deck" approach

[http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/08/lessons-from-a-study-of- per...](http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/08/lessons-from-a-study-of-perfect- pitch-decks-vcs-spend-an-average-of-3-minutes-44-seconds-on- them/#.ohymgc:cdoY)

</comment><comment><USER12> Yeah, instantly reminded me of Dave McClure's "How to pitch a VC" presentation from 5-6 years ago:

[http://bit.ly/1g9aTMP](http://bit.ly/1g9aTMP)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> As note in another comment (by erikb) "what to include" has crystallized on these items (problem, team, etc..) for a while now. What has evolved has probably been the space dedicated to each (we are down to 1 slide each, and I assume Guy does not mean 20 bullet points Font 9) and possible the relative weight... e.g financial projections have definitely lost weight and apparently can now be merged with key metrics)

</comment><comment><USER13> Url changed from [http://www.inc.com/larry-kim/your-startup-s-pitch-only- needs...](http://www.inc.com/larry-kim/your-startup-s-pitch-only-needs- these-10-slides.html), which points to this.

</comment><comment><USER14> Guy Kawasaki is awesome, but this is a bit derivative

<comment><USER15> The approach was more novel when he first started beating this drum well over a decade ago. You have to compare it to 1999-era corporate powerpoint practices. We've come a long way in terms of expectations of the medium.</comment></comment>


Chris Lattner on Swift - <AUTHOR> http://nondot.org/sabre/ <comment><USER2> Chris demonstrated Swift and Playgrounds at WWDC 2014:

 _" I can build anything with Swift... from a social media application, all the way up to a high-performance, 3D game using Metal."_

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMAV6owYh4#t=6436](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMAV6owYh4#t=6436)

He wrote this chapter (entitled _LLVM_ ) in the book, "The Architecture of Open Source Applications":

[http://aosabook.org/en/llvm.html](http://aosabook.org/en/llvm.html)

* * *

On the general topic, I wrote this [1] a little earlier in another thread; I'm just impressed with how Apple is becoming a gaming powerhouse.

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7841744](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7841744)

<comment><USER3> Did he mention anywhere Swift will be open sourced, the way LLVM has been? If not, why?

<comment><USER4> Does it really matter ? While I think Swift is an amazing language, it would be much less useful outside the closed ecosystem of Apple. The same thing happened to C#, it never really took off outside Windows.

<comment><USER5> C# is extremely popular in the gaming industry.

<comment><USER6> A small sector perhaps, but it isn't that popular if you look at the entire industry, i.e., AAA games. No one is writing CoD or Witcher in C#.

<comment><USER7> I respectfully disagree. You can't downplay the massive indie game libraries or even AA games out there. They're not breaking records, but they make a large amount of sales.

There are several massive communities that use Monogame (even still use XNA) and Unity. It's huge in the indie community, and is basically how the XB1, PS4, and Vita expect you to make games for their systems. The Vita Tool Chain is mostly C#.

Sure, no one is writing AAA games that require maximum graphical capabilities in C#, those teams use C++ exclusively (often with a scripting language on top). At that point that is really the only language AAA games use if they are made from scratch, otherwise they are using an engine already made in C++.

Bastion, Magika, A.R.E.S., Dust, Fez, Rogue Legacy, Reus, and Terraria are just a few made in XNA/Mono. And looking at total sales amounts, some of those games definitely had revenues over a million dollars.

That's not including unity games like: Shadowrun Returns, Rust, Wasteland 2, and Hearth Stone. These games made very good amounts of money, again, not 100% AAA, but still industry veterans.

<comment><USER6> I suppose you're right, I shouldn't have downplayed them. I just think you need to segregate the two groups as they are almost completely different industries. To say that "C# is really popular in the video game industry" is misleading.

<comment><USER7> I can mostly see your argument. It makes sense. The indie and AAA industry are two different beasts, but they are the same industry.

It feels like one of those big business vs small business issues. If you have the man power and the resources, you can go much farther much faster. But not every starting company can afford the overhead of going full C++ and Engine heavy.

So C# being 'really' popular in the AAA side of the industry is a tad misleading (though can be used as a language on top of the engine, for tools (where it is probably most used), and for tool-chain), to discount it only due to the top 33% of companies usage, is a bit unfair to the quite large and growing indie and AA crowd.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It's amazing that Apple managed to go from hatching the idea in mid-2010 to releasing a fully working framework 4 years later, with tight IDE integration, huge amount of testing and compatibility without a single leak (that I've heard of).

<comment><USER9> The existence of a programming language named Swift under internal development at Apple had leaked. What it was for wasn't clear – it certainly wasn't clear that it would replace Objective-C.

<comment><USER10> can you give a reference?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Great to see the credit to Bret Victor and Chris Granger's Light Table. Apple's resources can really help move forward these new ideas of what an IDE can be. If Swift is successful, a whole generation of young developers will use and improve on these ideas. Very exciting to see what happens.

<comment><USER12> Why do Bret V and Chris G get all the credit for something invented in the 90s? E.g. Steering programs with time travel ([http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.33....](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.33.538&rep=rep1&type=pdf)).

<comment><USER13> Because they made some impressive demos to reintroduce the concepts at a time when the audience is ready for them.

<comment><USER12> Fine, but if this guy was just inspired by and knew about LightTable and Bret's demos, he is missing a lot of good ideas and experiences that have been gathered over the last 30 years in doing similar things. They are destined to relearn the past.

<comment><USER13> I agree, and frankly I think Bret Victor in particular hasn't until recently referenced his influences enough.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> He does not have a beard. I'm very skeptic this language will be successful

<comment><USER15> I think the beard test is for OS developers.

<comment><USER16> Matz with a beard: [http://www.rubyist.net/~matz/images/matz- beard.jpg](http://www.rubyist.net/~matz/images/matz-beard.jpg)

He grew it specifically as a response to the "beard test" for programming languages.

<comment><USER17> Macintosh- and facial-hair-related: [http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Moustache.txt](http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Moustache.txt)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> It is nice that he mentioned Light Table. I would not be surprised if Swift ends up really benefitting Clojure adoption indirectly. I think one of the big hangups for newcomers is that, if you don't have experience with a Lisp, it's often difficult to understand the benefits of interactive development. If a large amount of new programmers become exposed to it, they'll be more open to other options that provide similar or better interactivity.

<comment><USER19> The only thing that makes me sad is that because of their focus on secrecy, they're doomed to relearn all that we learned along the way. Having played with the swift playground stuff, just an hour long conversation could've made a big difference.

Such is the way of Apple though.

<comment><USER20> On the other hand by keeping it secret and internal they avoided making bad decisions due to defensiveness and stubbornness.

An example of this is Go; they don't actually take input from outsiders (generics) and when they have had to give in to outside ideas they implement it poorly just to be different (exceptions as panic). They would rather people put in a no-op printf to avoid the unused package error rather than letting it be a warning because of their own self-righteousness.

Apple's secretive process may not be ideal, but there are far worse processes out there.

<comment><USER21> Wow, I'm not sure how to begin responding to that.

Go has taken a lot of suggestions from the open source community. Check the Go 1 mailing list discussions for examples. But panic existed before the opensource release and is not a substitute for exceptions, and nobody has actually proposed a viable generics implementation. The unused variable/package thing is a fundamental to the project's goals of working well at scale, and tools like goimports alleviate the pain (sometimes the answer is tools, not language changes).

Overall I'm pretty dismayed by your characterisation of Go as an open source project. We have a lot of great contributors from outside Google and your ignorant comments do them a great disservice.

<comment><USER20> I realize I'm in the Lion's Den. I feel that if you stepped outside the Google employee and Hacker News bubble you would see Go stubbornly refusing to have modern features, as I do.

I've been programming for 30 years and have written code that is in every Linux distro, and yes I did read the Go mailing list occasionally in the early days. But if it makes you feel better to call my opinions ignorant then I hope that's working out for you.

<comment><USER22> > I've been programming for 30 years and have written code that is in every > Linux distro

A very strange argument from authority considering Ken Thompson is one of Go's designers...

Considering the fact that 700 people attended the inaugural Go conference, and the variety of speakers ([http://gophercon.com/schedule/](http://gophercon.com/schedule/)), I think it's safe to say that Go has gained traction far beyond the Google employee and HN "bubbles".

<comment><USER20> The argument of authority of Go designers is actually my point. By designing the language in public (even before having source available) they now don't want to admit their errors, and neither do their supporters, because they are authorities, supposedly. I'm thinking of Pike in particular.

By keeping these discussions private, the Apple team did not need to protect their egos or their authority. We do not know who is responsible for which decisions at which points in the design, and they don't feel the need to defend their choices in public.

<comment><USER23> The Go team has admitted several errors publicly (e.g. var binding for range loops, some standard library design) on multiple occasions. Those errors won't be changed because we consider preserving backward compatibility more important. You could say that holding on to backward compatibility is "defensiveness and stubbornness", but it's really just making a different decision to what you may have done in the same situation.

In fact, your premise is almost entirely incorrect. Probably 95% of Go's language design happened before it was open sourced, so it's in exactly the same situation as Swift. The Go language hasn't changed a lot since November 2009.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> It looks like Rust was a major influence. It has been interesting seeing all these posts claiming Swift borrowed from _their_ language.

Obviously there is a lot of feature influence between languages but it was interesting to see the ones he called out explicitly.

<comment><USER25> It's a bit of a Rorschach test, sometimes. People see what's familiar to them.

<comment><USER26> Great way of putting it. I see Ruby in it personally, and loads and loads of C#, but I have heard the Rust thing before from other people.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> His take on the "x years of swift experience" meme is pretty great:

 _" Looking forward to next month: I'll be the first and only guy with 4 years of swift programming experience :-)"_

[https://mobile.twitter.com/clattner_llvm/status/473835365137...](https://mobile.twitter.com/clattner_llvm/status/473835365137416192)

</comment><comment><USER28> > I hope that by making programming more approachable and fun, we'll appeal to > the next generation of programmers and to help redefine how Computer Science > is taught.

I'll be cynical here: can this be done if the language ends up being restricted to apple devices?

<comment><USER29> To me, this is going to be the only thing that matters : dill this language be used for non-apple platform coding. I've been looking for a language just like that for a very long time on the server side for example.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Really excited for Swift. I've tried and failed many times to learn Objective C and felt that the barrier to entry was a bit to high for myself. As a someone who writes JavaScript for a living, Swift is very inviting.

<comment><USER31> Not trying to be rude, but if you've tried and actually FAILED to learn Objective-C multiple times, then you will have a much bigger problem with actually learning the Cocoa framework yourself. Objective-C does have a non- standard syntax, but its barrier of entry for actual learning is purely psychological and not technical.

<comment><USER32> Maybe the mistake could lie in starting with Objective C without first learning C? I'm thinking that a reasonably solid C foundation helps a lot in understanding why and how Obj-C works.

<comment><USER33> I went straight from a CFML/Java/Javascript web developer to picking up Objective C in a week. I had some coaching from a C/C++ expert, who learned ObjC on the fly and wrote a first draft of an app I designed, but from there I worked out how to solve my own problems and eventually became a moderately high skilled ObjC developer.

I have subsequently leveraged that ObjC experience to become somewhat proficient in plain C, a skill I appreciate today and something I might never have learned otherwise.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Site seems to be buckling under load. Google cache: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://nondot.org/sabre/)

<comment><USER35> Here's a screenshot of the page [http://i.imgur.com/C51LXnz.png](http://i.imgur.com/C51LXnz.png)

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I'm not sure if it's XCode / playground acting up, but array equality is broken for me: `[1, 2, 3] == [1, 2, 3]` returns false. This seems to contradict the core declarations though:

/// Returns true if these arrays contain the same elements.

func ==<T : Equatable>(lhs: T[], rhs: T[]) -> Bool

Works alright for dictionaries. Is there a bug tracker for Swift anywhere to report this?

Edit:

Whoops, copied wrong declaration. ContiguousArrays actually work fine, but require an extra cast. e.g.

ContiguousArray([1, 2, 3]) == ContiguousArray([1, 2, 3])

<comment><USER37> var one = [1, 2, 3]

var two = [1, 2, 3]

one == two

That's because Swift checks for safety first (variable declaration).

<comment><USER36> Can you explain what you mean by `checks for safety first (variable declaration)`?

This issue only seems to affect arrays. Strings, numbers, and dictionaries are fine.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Another interesting thing to note is that because Swift really began in roughly mid-2010, Steve Jobs probably had his hand at least slightly in it (obviously not as a programmer).

I guess my point being that there was likely some more specific reason for why it gained momentum later.

<comment><USER39> I dunno, it's possible but OTOH it's hard to imagine a guy like Steve Jobs, for whom (as far as I know) coding wasn't a primary concern, and who was dealing with cancer and much bigger fish in the i* products, being any more than tangentially involved in what would have been at the time a fledgling research language project. He was probably aware that it was happening, but I doubt that he played much of a role. Apple is after all a massive company filled with many smart people and who knows how many research projects.

<comment><USER40> I think it very likely Apple have all kinds of 1, 2, 5 and 10 year road maps for all their products (software and hardware).

Given that almost all of them rely so heavily on Objective-C, I expect they've had a road map for that (and XCode and the whole tool chain) for a very long time.

Given the plan is now to phase out ObjC and replace it entirely with Swift, I think it's extremely unlikely Steve didn't know about it, and endorse it.

<comment><USER41> He did say that it wasn't A major Apple focus until last year, when they actually got together and did all the end work.

<comment><USER40> It might not have been a major focus until last year, but I'll bet it was on road maps for many, many years preceding that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I feel like swift is really a good view on the future of programming. And it seems that in the future we have really two different kind of software engineers. As we make programming mainstream and easy, we will see some new people able to use langages like swift and dev good apps without having the slightest idea of what is happening underneath. We used to have at least a common background between software engineers but I think it gonna slowly disappear. Is it good or bad? I can't make up my mind yet, but I'm really considering more and more to go back to lower level langages as I feel like the upper levels are going to be crowded by young generations.

<comment><USER43> "Underneath" just means "the level below where I'm writing". This has pretty much always been true, the way systems are layered. You write install scripts? Apps? Libraries? rendering engines? Drivers? OS? Firmware? Chip layout? You probably don't really know what goes on 'underneath' your layer.

<comment><USER42> I agree but I feel like with swift it's kinda reaching an extent and it really doesn't push you toward learning any other layer. Swift + playground feels like the new dreamweaver to me. Either people are gonna write ugly code that shows them what they want to do or keep building quality apps, I don't know, I guess future will tell us. But I guess my main point was just that where I personally would try to reduce the gap between the different layers so we developers know what happens from A to Z (at least on the software side), the industry is clearly adding layer on layers such a way it's nearly impossible to control and understand the whole thing.

<comment><USER44> Our entire software industry is built on the power of abstractions. While its always great to know as much as you can about the layers you are building on, solid abstractions that allow you to get away with NOT knowing that unless you want to or need to optimize to extremes are a great thing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I can't afford to ignore it as it matures, but with my dev setup right now, I just can't afford it. Hoping to see this work well in Linux and Windows.

<comment><USER46> XCode6 runs alongside XCode5, you can safely play with Playground and build apps in the simulator, and even install iOS8 on a dev device and deploy there, without affecting your toolchain

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> Swift "greatly benefited from the experiences hard-won by many other languages in the field, drawing ideas from Objective-C, Rust, Haskell, Ruby, Python, C#, CLU, and far too many others to list." I have been wondering if in fact this language will be Open Source, since it is said to have taken from other programming languages, some of which are Open Source, yet the decision to make it Open Source has not been made? Lock down.

<comment><USER48> In general, a _language_ is not open source; its _implementation_ is.

<comment><USER47> Right, well, let's see what happens. I kindda agree with Gordon Haff ([http://www.cnet.com/news/apples-new-swift-coding-language- ho...](http://www.cnet.com/news/apples-new-swift-coding-language-hopes-to- lock-down-errors/)) on being disappointed that Apple did choose a more open platform, but I suppose this can change in time, like with Microsoft recent changes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> Extremely excited about this language's versatility. Also great to see the work of my school's Alumni and professors going into production. This is the third time I've come across the LLVM compiler in industry use (albeit nothing to the scale of iOS' language) - anecdotally during my internship search this last semester. Will be very interesting to take Professor Adve's compiler course soon.

</comment><comment><USER50> Apple really took a big step. Waiting to see amazing stuffs done with Swift.

</comment><comment><USER51> Looking forwards, here's a dream roadmap if this WWDC is any indication.

playgrounds for iPad, interface builder for iPad and finally Xcode.

</comment><comment><USER52> I like js, but not swift.

</comment><comment><USER53> Swift is a little complex.

Does it compile to Object-C?

<comment><USER25> No, it compiles from source to LLVM IR to native instructions, just like with clang or rustc

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> I wish Apple had selected a different name: [https://www.ci.uchicago.edu/research- projects/swift](https://www.ci.uchicago.edu/research-projects/swift)

<comment><USER55> Name a letter or a word and there is some project out there that had it before. If you come to grips with this now, your adult life will be much easier.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> Funny how he forgot to mention Golang somehow while that seems to be one of the bigger inspirations for the language.

<comment><USER57> I don't understand why people keep comparing Swift and Go, as they have diametrically opposed philosophies. As stated succinctly by Bryan O'Sullivan (one of the most prominent people in the Haskell community) on Twitter:

"It's interesting to compare Swift and Go. One has caught up to the 1990s in language design, with the other firmly in the 60s."

Swift includes many of the language features that have been touted by the academic functional programming community for years but which have not made a large impact in industry, like algebraic data types, pattern matching, and Optionals. The designers of Go apparently looked at the past few decades of language research and decided that none of it interested them. The only really innovative parts of Go are its concurrency support, which Swift seems to be completely lacking.

<comment><USER58> _The only really innovative parts of Go are its concurrency support, which Swift seems to be completely lacking._

Worth noting that one of the greatest problems in software development is concurrency support and its ease of use/robustness.

It is a critical and growing issue.

In contrast, having or not having generics, optionals (in C# these are nullable types), algebraic data types (which in Go is interface, albiet minus the type set checking) make a marginal, vanishingly small difference in programmer productivity or application performance/stability.

99% of the articles about the profound importance of generics are people building nothing of interest for anyone, and it is exactly that vaguery of design that makes generics seem so important.

Concurrency, however, is everyone's problem. It is _the_ modern programming problem. Nothing is more important.

And FWIW, all languages draw from each other, and of course they should learn from each other. It is very likely that Go influenced Swift in subtle ways, but it is obvious why that wouldn't be referenced.

<comment><USER59> Genuine question: what does Go provide in terms of concurrency that Swift + GCD doesn't?

<comment><USER60> I would argue that Go has it more "baked in."

But I'm actually curious as well. Given that Objective-C (and now Swift) have GCD, what language features are needed to bring concurrency up to par with Go?

I'm sort of reminded of what Microsoft did after Task Parallel Library came out with C#. People didn't pay attention too much to what MS was building until async/await came out (along with tooling support). But async/await built upon TPL. So it's probably a matter of time for Apple to do something similar on top of GCD, if they're going to do something. But I doubt it's going to look something like Go.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I like Chris and what he has done, but...

>>The Swift language is the product of tireless effort from a team of language experts, documentation gurus, compiler optimization ninjas...

Seriously? What is a "documentation guru"? What is a "compiler optimization ninja"? I find language like this so distracting and asinine that I had to stop reading. Am I the only one?

<comment><USER62> Yes, you are the only one. Replace "guru" with "expert" and "ninja" with "expert" and continue reading. There are already no real ninjas in the world and soon there will be no real gurus. No one thinks twice when someone is called a marketing wiz (there are no real wizards any more). Language changes and metaphors using archaic terms are commonly introduced.

<comment><USER61> That's funny, because when such language is used in job postings, they are overwhelmingly frowned upon by HN folks. But I guess it's OK when someone like Chris does it...

edit: judging by the downvotes, he seems to have a lot of fans. :)

<comment><USER63> Likely downvoted because this is the stupidest, most pointless comment thread on an otherwise decent page. Contributing to it is what's overwhelmingly frowned upon by HN.

(Yes, I know. I could use some downvotes.)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Germs and ancient migrations help explain our world of 'haves' and 'have nots' - <AUTHOR> https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2019/01/29/how-germs-and-ancient-migration-help-explain-our-world-of-haves-and-have-nots/ <comment><USER2> A lot of these debates ignore that evolutionary success is simply defined as persistence. If population A has 90% infant mortality and lives on $1 day but has genetic descendants 1000 years from now, then they are evolutionarily "better" than population B that has <1% infant mortality, lives on $100 day, and has no genetic descendants 1000 years from now. Declaring one group a "have" and another group a "have not" is myopic. Literally every group on the face of the earth at some level believes they are "chosen" and superior to other groups. The only way to actually tell though is to see which genes are still geneing 1000 years, 10,000 years, etc into the future. To date it's not even clear that multicellularity is that great of a branch to be on.

<comment><USER3> > To date it's not even clear that multicellularity is that great of a branch > to be on.

Doesn't it hurt to realize your multi-cellular brain came up with this?

Of course you want multi-cellular life. It's the only known answer of nature capable of particle physics, space exploration and postulating one's bad ideas on HN.

You shouldn't become that agnostic to your place in the universe, and unless a couple of much better reasons aren't more obvious to you, at least because people will think you like insulting yourself, together with your entire branch of life, that also includes the reader.

<comment><USER4> If the point of a gene is to reproduce itself, the GP's conjecture is likely correct.

Evolution itself is non-judgemental and has no inherent bias to the development of spaceflight over, say, a massively distributed system willing to tolerate huge die offs. They are simply two different approaches (not even strategies) for dealing with local conditions.

<comment><USER3> I kind of see the utility in prevailing in the universe can much more be an active and guided persuasion through us humans (maybe by proxy, through whatever robotic arks we can come up with), because it can be so much more effective than a passive and kind of brittle and to me unconvincing process of post-solar system panspermia.

<comment><USER4> You may have a bias towards humans but nature doesn't care: all the bets are played in parallel.

In fact by your own preference, the unicellular organisms are more likely to successfully spread their DNA (as it's "packetized" into a complete organism) via the surfaces of the robot ships you describe than the multicellular ones are.

<comment><USER5> Gumby is right here. While it's obviously important to US whether or not we survive, Mother Nature doesn't care whether we live or die.

As long as the genes keep propagating, she's good.

I think it's healthy for humans to look to their own survival, but I realize that Mother Nature only cares for the propagation of genes. We should never confuse the one with the other. We should never start to believe that Mother Nature has an interest in our survival more than the survival of some other fish, or alien lifeform far away, or some bacteria, or virus. That could be a fatal mistake for us.

<comment><USER3> I see my argument solely as one driven by my own survival instinct.

And as it's nature that biases me towards my species, is it wrong to try live up to that and build those spaceships?

<comment><USER4> That's up to you — I also think spaceships are great (and also don't really see the point of putting humans in them). We're all just telling you that nature doesn't prefer you or me to the amoeba, nor vice versa.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Environment vs genetics is a minefield for anyone who tries to be objective. Just say that differences are in 99% shaped by environment and you are fine and safe for today. However a lie is good for a short time, but really bad for a long term. Especially if it becomes a base for, let's say, a national policy.

Also, saying it is mostly environment makes individuals blame others for their own failures - "I am perfect, the environment is wrong and has to change".

A sad thing is that scientists that study this question get publicly destroyed.

<comment><USER7> >Just say that differences are in 99% shaped by environment and you are fine

You can find flaws and inconsistencies in their logic easily though. People have no issue with saying that height is genetic for example. Even racially, it's ok to say Asians are on average shorter than Africans

But imply intelligence is genetic, and now there are issues. For some reason we are told that evolution and genetics stop at a human's neck

My question is that if intelligence isn't genetic, why doesn't somebody teach a dog, or cat, or bacteria how to do quantum mechanics? Surely it's just environment right?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Another good read that says something similar.

Guns, Germs & Steel: The Fates of Human Societies [https://www.amazon.com/dp/0393973867](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0393973867)

And the documentary based on the book:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgGw8kZnJxE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgGw8kZnJxE)

<comment><USER9> It might be a good read but at best its pop science at worst complete bunk (close to the latter). There was a book about this topic written by an actual historian much earlier: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_Imperialism_(book)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_Imperialism_\(book\)) and where Diamond tried to answer very broad questions and his broad answers break down in detail, Crosby makes similar points but approaches as a historian, limits his arguments and actually practices proper scholarship.

<comment><USER10> Out of curiosity, can you explain, or point to some writing about why you think the theories in the book are close to "complete bunk"?

<comment><USER11> [https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2017/09/04/guns-germs-and- ste...](https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2017/09/04/guns-germs-and-steel- revisited/)

There are also a ton of good critiques on /r/history, /r/askhistorians, and /r/anthropology. I can't remember which I've read. Ones like this are typical:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8nr7xd/thoug...](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8nr7xd/thoughts_on_guns_germs_and_steel_by_jared_diamond/)

<comment><USER12> That first link entirely ignores that IQ tests have been shown to be culturally dependent. Likewise for the aptitude tests he conflates them with.

Pretty sure if you wrote an IQ test where your standard population was a group of people living in a harsh jungle environment, urbanite Westerners would come off thick as pigshit.

Or an aptitude test for "How good are you at tracking cassowaries without being disembowelled by them".

I've read good dissections of what's wrong with Diamond's work, that link is not one of them.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Brain Query Language – wtf is this? - <AUTHOR> https://www.brainql.com <comment><USER2> I have no idea but I found removing the text and running the site in full screen mode results in one beautiful screensaver:

[http://imgur.com/a/yGr1Q](http://imgur.com/a/yGr1Q)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This, along with [https://msdn.microsoft.com/magazine/mt788621](https://msdn.microsoft.com/magazine/mt788621) makes me wonder if we should be afraid</comment>


"It has YouTube, but unfortunately no flash"- Mossberg- iPhone 2007. - <AUTHOR> http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/8570

<comment><USER2> Edit title please, should be 2007, not 1997.

<comment><AUTHOR> Whoops! (maybe it just felt like the interview was that long ago) -thanks</comment></comment>


Climate change, common sense absent in pending new US farm bill - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/opinion/the-farm-bill-should-help-the-planet-not-just-crops.html?src=recg

<comment><USER2> "Common sense" says we need biofuels (ethanol from corn) to cut down on GHG emissions to curb global warming... so what's the problem here?</comment>


The Making of Aprilzero: Part 2 - <AUTHOR> http://aprilzero.com/journal/launch-of-aprilzero/

<comment><USER2> Ended up being a longer post than I was expecting, forgot how many mockups I went through :p</comment>


Ask HN: What should I do with my job? - <AUTHOR> Hello, HN!
I need your advice!
I have been working on the same project for about 10 years already. This project evolved a few times, but it is kinda the same for many years. It pays good money. It's fully remote programming work. So I don't have to spend more than 4-5 hours completing all tasks for the job. But sometimes I work about 7-8 hours per day and after those pushes I feel super exhausted, sad and depressed for days. I do not get satisfaction from this job and at the end of the day I feel that I have wasted another day.
The work is not hard, it's more on the side of being boring and the challenge if there any is about quantity of tasks. Also I think I am the best in my team/project and I do not see anybody from I can learn in the company - this saddens me very much.
I sporadically take courses about Crypto, AI, do little project for that, but nothing big. I am not sure what is wrong with me? I keep looking for side projects all the time, but since my main job occupies most of my brain, it is hard to have big side projects same time. I feel a little at dead end b/c I have responsibility to feed my family and not sure if I can leave it now.
I have tried to build games, released on for free and was demotivated, that it got very little attention. I have an urge to complete projects, b/c my job does not give me sense of completeness at all. I have doubts which area of expertise to pursue: AI or ML or games in general. I want to have a little pride in what I do.
What would you suggest?
Thank you, HN.
You have been great help in the past.
I had to post from new account b/c of employer can read this. <comment><USER2> This might sound weird, but you might try seeing a therapist as you begin your new journey. It sounds like this long time of being unfulfilled might have left you with a touch of depression, or at the very least demotivated. It's kind of amazing what a few good conversations with a pro can do for your motivation.

Second, I'm not sure what your current stack is, but it sounds like it's old enough that you may need to retrain yourself some, depending on your area of focus. Whether it's through a legitimate course, or self taught, the evolution of a 10 year old product has likely left you in the cold.

Of course, it depends on exactly what you'd like to do, which is the most important thing (and something a therapist can help with). If it were me, I would note down everything about my current situation I really don't want to or can't give up (remote work, low stress, good salary, etc) and what I'd like to or need to find in the next job (a welcoming team, new and shiny tech, learning every day) and then prune the list to your satisfaction between negotiable and non-negotiable for a new situation. But you have to be realistic, if you want something like $200k/yr in Iowa working for a low stress agency, you're never going to get it.

After that, just start looking, maybe even put yourself out to a recruiting agency if you don't know how to begin the search. It's not really hard to find new positions with a lot of experience, it gets harder to find the ones you want.

You've got a lot of experience under your belt, hopefully you made the best of it, because it could make employers quite interested in you.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for advice.

Do you think that working on the same project for many (10) years affects me negatively and makes me to see world clearly around me harder?

<comment><USER2> Everyone is different- me personally, if I worked on the same tech product for 10 years I would go insane with boredom... probably. But I just couldn't fathom a universe where I ever would have worked on anything that long. I've never been anywhere more than three years and spent my entire career consulting or doing agency work precisely because I couldn't imagine being in a role where I was just doing the same thing for a long time. Even when I worked for product companies, I was in professional services customizing the product or some variation on the theme- each project was one of a kind (though similar) and I was usually in and out in under 6 months.

You say that most days are about a half day, that's a lot of free time where I would've been building my own ideas, playing with the latest and greatest, and have been reading about what all the "cool people" were doing. If I could, I would've applied some of these new learnings to my day job, but having been in PS for a pretty old Java product, I know what it's like to be kind of stuck with what you have (like writing code for Java 5 when Java 7 is out).

I'm probably very different than you though, I'm a builder not a maintainer, I can't stand maintenance. Other people are so good at maintenance they make me feel stupid and lazy. We like what we like- and I would think that if you were working there that long you probably like maintenance/steady type work more than I do. It might just be a change of scenery that you need.

Going back to the first comment, I think your first steps should be around figuring out what kind of work would make you happier- and not the kind of BS where if it isn't something you love don't do it. Be pragmatic, what is it you NEED to be happy about the job you will perform. What is missing from your current position that leaves you so depleted? What would give you energy in a new job. Is it the people around you, or lack thereof because you're remote?

I don't know how you've spent your available time as it pertains to the tech world around us, but I'm sure there will likely be some catching up to do, does that interest you? Does it scare you?

All of the questions are why I really think seeing a pro would be beneficial. No one is going to give you the right answer, you just have to get there yourself- that's life.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Why can't I unsubscribe to privacy policy updates? - <AUTHOR> I have been getting too many emails for privacy policy updates. I really don't want to know, and I already unsubscribed to many of these services. <comment><USER2> It's a best practice to notify users when a company policy on privacy of user data is updated, including updates on Terms & Conditions that have various rules for users to follow [1].

[1] [https://termsfeed.com/blog/update-notice-legal- agreements/](https://termsfeed.com/blog/update-notice-legal-agreements/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Funny fact - if you ignore all the email, the services should care that they delete all private data. Or you can reply to all these emails with the request: Please send me an export of all personal data you stored in the last years.

</comment><comment><USER4> To be fair, it's the basis of a good list of companies that you will contact post-25th to get them to delete all data they hold on you.

</comment><comment><USER5> The recent onslaught has to do with every organization trying to address GDPR prior to Friday.</comment>


Marketing firm Exactis leaked a personal info database with 340M records - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/story/exactis-database-leak-340-million-records/ <comment><USER2> It's so nice to see a headline that doesn't use shitty passive voice for a flagrant fuckup:

> _Earlier this month, security researcher Vinny Troia discovered that > Exactis, a data broker based in Palm Coast, Florida, had exposed a database > that contained close to 340 million individual records on a publicly > accessible server._

</comment><comment><USER3> From the article:

> _The leak doesn 't seem to contain credit card information or Social > Security numbers—it does go into minute detail for each individual listed, > including phone numbers, home addresses, email addresses, and other highly > personal characteristics for every name. The categories range from interests > and habits to the number, age, and gender of the person's children. "It > seems like this is a database with pretty much every US citizen in it," _</comment>