The GitHub Job Interview - <AUTHOR> http://blog.gigantt.com/2011/12/github-job-interview.html <comment><USER3> Really, this is no different from the offline coding test, except that since the code is open source it might be useful to someone later.

I'd never do this Github interview for an open source project that was not very widely used, for the same reasons I'd never work on the company's closed source for an interview: exploitation.

In that sense, working on a toy problem is a big feature to me in an interview process, I know I'm not being cheaply exploited.

Also, other things equal, I prefer to do a code problem at interview because I know it will have helped filter out the fluff from getting into the company I'm applying to.

<comment><USER4> That's why it should be a cool, fun project. It's hard for me to see how one might get exploited by contributing as much time as he wants to an open-source project. Remember, the prospective employee uses the same experience to gauge what it's like to work with his prospective employer.

<comment><USER3> Assuming this company has fun work to do (you'd hope so), there's nothing stopping them just giving you their work.

It doesn't matter that it's open source if you're not going to use it and no- one else apart from them is (a very real possibility).

In essence, I'd happily agree with the article after changing this:

> "You come up with a cool idea of an open-source project"

with this:

> "You find a _popular_ open-source project"

Now you can be certain (not just optimistic) that the wider community will benefit from your work.

(edit: I'm thinking along the lines of jQuery, backbone.js, nodejs, django, memcached, sqlite, Nginx, Hadoop, Linux, ..., not some dev's/company's lonely github project)

<comment><USER4> It's true that you'll have more impact by contributing to a well-known project, but on the other hand the range of activities you can take part in is limited. Well-established projects usually don't call for high-level design activities - the sort that a tech co-founder would need to do. They're more about contributing patches and perhaps a new feature (after you've learned the project, which is usually quite big). Ultimately I think you get the same amount of karma if you work on a pet project and not a well-established one. And there's absolutely no reason why the company's sandbox project can't fill a real need and become popular with time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > Being rejected after two weeks of work doesn't look good on anyone's CV

Why would someone put this on their CV?

<comment><USER6> Background checks will show where you've worked, unless you were getting paid illegally. Still, I agree with you. It isn't something to scream out loud.

<comment><USER7> Background checks are being restricted in CA (by laws that became active in Jan '12), but even before that, I doubt it. Background checks are more like credit checks than employment history checks, except they include law enforcement activity.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> "Not all developers have existing online projects they can point to when you're interviewing them."

After 15+ years of doing open source and being in Sr. Software Engineer positions where I've been responsible for interviewing hundreds of people, I'm convinced now that I would never hire anyone who doesn't have some sort of public online project. I don't care what it is, you must have some code to show.

<comment><USER9> I am pretty sure that majority of people doesn't have public repository. I don't have problem showing my code but it is not public.

<comment><USER8> Here is my problem with that statement:

You are saying that you _only_ have code which is entirely private. This is most likely code you wrote for your employeer, which you can't show me anyway because chances are that it is NDA private. Or, you have code which you wrote for say, an iPhone app which you are probably never going to show to anyone. That is all fine.

However, you are also telling me that you've never integrated any open source projects into your code or relied on any non-commercial external libraries. Or, maybe you have done that.

But then I have to wonder why you've never contributed back to any of these projects that you've depended on. If you are a great dev, I'm sure you found them lacking in some way and wanted to contribute a bit back to them.

Thus, we've come full circle. Any developer that I would want to hire, has figured out that there is a massive ecosystem of open source projects out there. They are integrating them and contributing _something_ back to them. They are drawn to these projects like flys to sh*t. These projects teach them new tricks because they are studying others code. They are drawn to give back to these projects because they are taking so much good from them. That is what makes a good developer in my eyes.

Here is a really good case in point example. Last night I was working with the amazing Underscore.js library, which I'm fairly new to. I found that I wanted to do something with it, couldn't figure it out and made a suggestion on how to improve it [1]. Someone from the community responded quickly, we had a bit of really positive back and forth and in the end I learned something new about the library. I expect that anyone I hire has the gumption to also be doing similar work.

Go fork some projects.

[1] <https://github.com/documentcloud/underscore/issues/425>

<comment><USER10> You'd miss a lot of really good people with that standard. I used to work at Amazon, so I'll use them as an example. (Keep in mind, it's been about 1.5 years since I left, so some of this may have changed.) Amazon has a policy that requires you to get open source contributions approved by legal. That is, legal has to review every commit you want to put into open source to make sure 'it's not in a competing product', reviews can take weeks, and when you ask a lawyer every product is competing.

The whole company is built off of Open Source, but there are teams the fork the projects into internal repositories (Perforce when I left) and put a bunch of Amazon-specific 'things' into them. As a developer there, I didn't use the Open Source sites, docs, or mailing lists at all -- I used Amazon's. We had wiki's, ticket queues, and mailing lists -- all internal to Amazon. Maybe the core team that's doing the forking and merging from the trunk would or does contribute back, but for any given project >99% of the developers at Amazon don't ever work on that codebase -- or with the codebase of any of these projects.

As a developer, we just have a 'team' somewhere that does. If something doesn't work in Tomcat, we don't go find the Apache page and file a bug, or jump on the mailing group, we file a trouble ticket with the team that owns Tomcat at Amazon, and they fix it. Maybe they go to the Apache pages and mailing list, or maybe they just see the line of code in the codebase and fix it, I have no idea.

<comment><USER11> I've been waiting on approval from legal for a diff viewing tool. It has been under review for over a year now. On the one year anniversary of the ticket I pasted in an ascii art birthday cake and there has finally been some progress. It is among the many reasons amazon loses great devs.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I solved a test problem for a company once (gt 500 LOC), but it was after a pre-screen and the stated salary was 130-140k base, not including generous bonuses, in the Midwest. It was also when I had a lot of downtime, so I didn't mind.

Now, I have a hard time finding enough time __for my own projects __, much less for contributing something to a company just for the chance to interview.

Since you're offering single digit equity, it __might __be worthwhile, but for the vast majority of companies, it would warrant a pass.

</comment><comment><USER13> How is this any better than just looking for candidates who have created or contributed to other open source projects? I suppose there would be some good candidates that came from bigger companies and maybe don't have much of a GitHub portfolio, but surely the vast majority of people that would be considered by tech startups would already have some work online.

<comment><USER14> It's all about context. While a candidate might have some code online, you save a lot of time by having some code that you're more familiar with and can utilize to see how they think about a problem.

Also it's good to see how someone reacts to digging around in an unfamiliar code base and see how they familiarize themselves.

<comment><USER4> Context is true. It's totally different to see someone work _with you_ on a project than to rummage around their commits to project you don't really know. The point is to see how it is to collaborate with someone, and that has to be a first-person experience (or take the word of someone you really value, but that's not what you get form random GitHub projects). And also there are tons of developers who never really contributed much to open source. e.g. in the Microsoft world this is not so rare, and you'll miss these people if you _require_ a GitHub reference...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The idea is good, but if you are explicitly interviewing I would add an honorarium to the whole thing.

This way it's not officially a probation - the candidate can even say they were freelancing during this time - so the CV problem doesn't come up AND you don't look the tiniest bit like you are exploiting people.

</comment><comment><USER16> I've had some success by asking a late-stage candidate to take a day off of work, then to come and pair program for a half-day with each of two developers. I paid them the appropriate consulting day rate.

</comment><comment><USER17> writing code during an interview is great, but almost a 180 degree experience to writing code in real life. there are a couple of factors:

* psych pressure

* unrealistic timeline

* googling is usually not allowed, whereas EVERYBODY uses it writing code in real life

* editor/environment is usually not "yours"

* etc..

hence the _way_ you choose to conduct a code test will, in most cases, matter a lot less than the actual _problem_ you choose that needs to be solved. the more applicable this problem is to what your business does every day the better. e.g. sometimes a "red-black tree" is crucial, other times things like a simple mobile CRUD app with a REST web service OR a thin, high throughput TCP/IP based protocol could be a lot more relevant.

of course you can't realistically expect a 100% bug free or even complete code from candidates, especially if you ask for things like an "app" or a new "protocol" => what really matters is _how_ people "get to it".

github or not, I hired several exceptional people not that long ago using a piece of paper and a white board. If it is not a face to face interview, skype and/or google docs are also effective.

<comment><USER18> for what its worth, at my last company once a candidate passed phone screening we would tell them that the in-person interview would include a one-hour coding assignment, and that they should tell us their preferred language and (free) editor/ide and we'd set it up. we also provided full access to google, and the tasks were reasonably easy (e.g. print out numbers in a square spiral, implement a duplicate file finder, that sort of thing). a depressingly vast majority _still_ couldn't do it; contrariwise the good ones would have just as happily done it all on a whiteboard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I've been mulling over the idea of writing a small buggy program, one that doesn't compile, and providing some test cases, then post it on GitHub as a first pass filter.

It achieves several aims:

1\. This approach scales. Send a prospective employee the github url and they can get started.

2\. The programming puzzle can be solved in about 15 minutes. Kind of like a better Fizz Buzz.

3\. The interviewee doesn't feel insulted that the employer expected them to do some work for free.

4\. The employer has some assurance the person will have some source control competency, to be able to check out from a Git. repository.

5\. You could test the prospective employee based on the skills you require. For example: You could even have the puzzle interact with a web service. Troubleshooting the program will involve firing up a proxy or packet sniffer to figure out why things didn't work. It might be a jQuery bug. etc.

<comment><USER20> Why go through all this complication? Use bugs that have _actually occurred in your app_ , repurpose those into coding problems, and see how the prospect solves it. You might be surprised that they fix the bug better than your existing employees (or you).

<comment><USER19> Production code baes are never trivial enough for a quick test. They usually require a deep understanding of domain.

Have you ever tried to fix an open bug on a GitHub project? It is non-trivial.

<comment><USER20> Well you don't give them the entire codebase, you package the bug-that-was- fixed into a tiny example app. I think it probably goes without saying to exclude changes in business rules.

Is this not closer to the actual job than Pascal's Triangle?

<comment><USER19> oh I see. I agree with you entirely.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> That is a sensible idea - but i would go one step further.

Ideally you want to learn about a potential candidate's design/coding/debugging/bug-fixing/testing skills. Github project collaboration over a week or so would go a long way towards that.

But you also want to see how well the potential employee communicates with other members of the team, on a day-to-day basis. Some Developers, even good developers, have strong opinions that might rub other employees the wrong way. The key is to look at how well they work as a team.

Having them spend a day or so onsite with your existing team is invaluable. You might also want to consider paying them a nominal amount for the amount of time they would spend on the project. That just adds a professional touch to the whole experience.

<comment><USER20> "Consider" paying them?

<comment><USER22> Note to self: Never work for enry_straker.

If I'm onsite with _your_ team working on _your_ code-base, someone damn well better be paying me for it. Not to mention those kinds of shenanigans are downright illegal in some parts of the world...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Seing code is the way to go in job interviews, and in my opinion can't be compared to solve puzzles, etc.

Thanks to Open Source right now there are tons of public code from people, that's why we have created masterbranch.com a service to aggregate, analyze, and list all you OS but also with the option of include non-open source code (the code is not visible if the project is not open source).

Also, the idea of open sourcing a component, a side project, etc. and ask the candidates to contribute I think is a great way to have an idea about how they work.

<comment><USER24> Hi. The idea is great, but I ran into some issues.

\- it took me quite a long time to find the 'Claim all your identities' - <USER2> should be in the same place I edit my profile.

\- after I claim one account I don't have a link to go back and claim other accounts

\- something is wrong with handling bitbucket projects, it sees only 2 of my projects

\- if I go to 'Claim all your identities' for the second time, I don't see a list of my claimed accounts.

\- no link to jump to my profile in the profile menu (top-right), ther should be one

\- "Your profile is 40% complete" 40% of what?? it begs for a 'learn more'

\- javascript ranks higher in the chart than python although it has less projects (even from the small number it recognizes) and less code

Too confusing.

<comment><USER23> Thanks for your feedback. I'm going to add it to our backlog.

\- About the bitbucket projects, maybe the crawler didn't get all the links, you can send us projects to add going to "Missing projects? Add a project"

\- About the link to go to your profile, there is a tab named "go to your profile" on the main nav-bar

\- The progress bar needs explanations and also some work because is not working properly right now.

\- The chart is ordered by the number of files. Probably we should order it using the number of files, commits, and the time but right now this's the order and maybe this is why is confusing to you.

Again, thanks for your feedback, appreciated.

<comment><USER24> > _About the bitbucket projects, maybe the crawler didn't get all the links, > you can send us projects to add going to "Missing projects? Add a project"_

<https://api.bitbucket.org/1.0/users/{>{ username }}/</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Tufts chemists create world's smallest electric motor - <AUTHOR> http://bostinnovation.com/2011/09/06/breaking-ground-scientists-at-tufts-create-the-worlds-smallest-electric-motor/

<comment><USER2> Feynman would be pleased. It would seem there's no longer " _plenty_ of room at he bottom", and only 50 years after his challenge.

<http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/feynman.html></comment>


Ask YC: What popular web sites were coded in a flash? - <AUTHOR>

I know many popular web sites weren't coded overnight/in a week but a handful actually were..
twittervision.com - "4 hours on Ruby on Rails" (http://tinyurl.com/2bgets)
HotOrNot.com - 8 days - coding under fire... http://tinyurl.com/2ur2z8
Sched.org - "14 hours by two Florida developers with day jobs" (Announced on News.YC - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=126450) (http://chir.ag/)
tinyurl.com - ? (brilliant use of HTTP/1.0 302)
Reading about stories like these gives me hope that there is a slim crack of opportunity for the right application at the right time for the person(s) with the right execution ability and a bit of luck.. iPhone apps anyone? <comment><USER2> The first version of Yahoo may qualify I think.

</comment><comment><USER3> facebook v1.0 was coded in several days.</comment>


How a Pediatrician Became a Detective - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/09/opinion/sunday/flint-water-pediatrician-detective.html <comment><AUTHOR> Dr. Mona is an amazingly courageous individual. I live an hour West of Flint and watched the whole thing go down in the state's capital of Lansing.

Dr. Mona was mocked by the state. The state's two major universities were silent. It must have felt like the weight of the world was sitting on her shoulders but she didn't buckle, in fact she became more outspoken.

But quietly at her alma mater of Michigan State one of her mentors convinced MSU's then leader, Lou Anna Simon, to provide the resources to look into her claims. When Dr. Simon called a press conference to support Dr. Mona's claims the dam broke and within days everyone acknowledged she'd been right all along.

As for Lou Anna Simon, well the Dr. Nassar sex abuse scandal broke and she was forced to resign. Dr. Mona's star however has risen and I think she should be included in a future version of the book profiles in courage.</comment>


The Strange Similarity of Neuron and Galaxy Networks - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/issue/50/emergence/the-strange-similarity-of-neuron-and-galaxy-networks <comment><USER3> It's not that profound. Both networks form through "preferential attachment." Large networks of galaxies form because gravity causes the largest conglomerations to get larger. Similarly, neurons are more likely to connect to other neurons that already have a large number of connections. It's the same principle exhibited by different mechanisms; also the reason social networks look the way they do. See Barabasi-Albert model, preferential attachment, and scale-free networks.

<comment><USER4> > neurons are more likely to connect to other neurons that already have a > large number of connections

how do neurons "know" which neurons have large number of connections?

<comment><USER5> The neurons with larger numbers of connections likely have higher electrical activity in the body.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The argument here is a bit forced. In fact, the entire _universe_ seems to be self-similar. My point is only that there's nothing special, mysterious, or spooky about brain matter (as the article kind of implies). In fact, you can draw similarities between atoms (and their electron clouds) and solar systems.

The self-similarity and fractal nature of our world is indeed puzzling and fascinating, but it goes far beyond brains.

</comment><comment><USER7> "The map is not the territory."

This is a similarity between _models_ of neuron and galactic networks, not the actual networks themselves.

<comment><USER8> What's the difference? If both systems can be modelled in a similar way, how does that not make them similar?

I don't think anyone is trying to make an argument that they are the same 'thing' ("hey, maybe the observable Universe is a 'thought' inside a cosmic brain!"), just that there are striking similarities in structure - which can only easily be seen by a comparison of models.

<comment><USER9> The differences are major. One is made of unconnected stars, largely governed by the laws of gravity, the other one is made of connected cells, governed by the laws of chemistry, electricity (and maybe quantum effects).

The only rough similarity is the looks, and only if you dye the brain tissue in a special way.

<comment><USER10> I have a little hypothesis that I dreamed up a couple nights ago:

Life is exogenous to the universe. That gives life it's meaning-to define what it is through it's impact on the universe. This is because the universe is in average empty and lifeless. The inanimate universe vastly outweighs the animate. Life could not ever overcome the average emptiness of the universe. But still it must try. It must try because if it ceases it becomes the inanimate. Life is that exogenous influence on the universe not attributable to any other physical or chemical process. If you simply cannot explain it then it may be life.

Brain evolution over time is definitely dependent upon physics/chemistry - <USER2> it's also dependent on conditions at higher levels of abstraction. We know neurons change their associations every day based on many factors at the conscious and subconscious levels (observations/thoughts).

<comment><USER11> "Life" is just a particular arrangement of inanimate matter riding the wave of entropy, a complicated fire simmering away on the Earth's surface...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This article seems quite silly, or at least, can easily lead to silly conclusions. There was a brief paragraph at the end that half-heartedly admitted that the evidence wasn't conclusive, but it seems most people didn't read it.

Further, only one paper was referenced - and it was written by the author of the article! Guess what? It has 1 (one) citation.

>Is the apparent similarity just the human tendency to perceive meaningful patterns in random data (apophenia)? Remarkably enough, the answer seems to be no: Statistical analysis shows these systems do indeed present quantitative similarities.

This is not a good argument. The similarity of images is not the similarity of systems.

Also,

>In other words, it tells us how many high-frequency and low-frequency notes make the peculiar spatial melody of each image.

.. come on, man. Come on.

>Based on the latest analysis of the connectivity of the brain network, independent studies have concluded that the total memory capacity of the adult human brain should be around 2.5 petabytes, not far from the 1-10 petabyte range estimated for the cosmic web!

So if I make a 3-petabyte hard drive, it's self-aware? There are a few things wrong with this passage. The first is that no citations are given. The second is that connectivity is not the only important aspect of brain function. The third is that 2.5 petabytes falls firmly WITHIN the 1-10 pb range given. The fourth is that a 1-10 pb range hardly seems to tell us anything.

>Roughly speaking, this similarity in memory capacity means that the entire body of information that is stored in a human brain (for instance, the entire life experience of a person) can also be encoded into the distribution of galaxies in our universe.

No. Galaxies don't fire action potentials. The data points could be mapped to each other, perhaps, but this doesn't mean that the information is the same, given that the information depends on the way the data is read.

>It is truly a remarkable fact that the cosmic web is more similar to the human brain than it is to the interior of a galaxy; or that the neuronal network is more similar to the cosmic web than it is to the interior of a neuronal body

Is it really? Seems like apophenia is taking hold again. Of course we want to recognise ourselves in the universe. God made man in his image blah blah blah blah. People should be wary of this way of thinking.

</comment><comment><USER13> milk I mixed with orange juice: [http://i.imgur.com/8wj0l3J.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/8wj0l3J.jpg)

surface of the sun: [https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/thesun-4...](https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/thesun-454657.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER14> > Programs like the Human Brain Project, designed to simulate an entire human > neuronal network

I'm not sure but it is my understanding the HBP plans on studying the human brain from a static measurements of adult specimens. That seems at odd with the cosmological models used here, which are dynamical, building a structure from an initial conditions.

Is there an accurate model for the dynamics of brain during the development of the embryo? If not couldn't we start from the cosmological model and tweak it until it produces a structure that matches the brain even better?

</comment><comment><USER15> 2 more relevant refigures:

[http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/016c28958aab.j...](http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/016c28958aab.jpg)

[http://wwwmpa.mpa- garching.mpg.de/galform/millennium/poster_...](http://wwwmpa.mpa- garching.mpg.de/galform/millennium/poster_large.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER16> As Above, So Below

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrocosm_and_microcosm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrocosm_and_microcosm)

<comment><USER17> Yes, ancient thinkers were starting to notice self similarity at different scales.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Articles like this is why I stay clear of nautilus.

</comment><comment><USER19> Imagine if the "big bang" was actually conception, and the universe as we know it is actually a being...

<comment><USER20> An interesting allegorical approach that begs deeper questions.

Does that mean our solar system is Oxygen or Fluorine? Or are gas giants neutrons?

Are galaxies cells? Do the orders of magnitude map?

Are we then still the universe experiencing itself?

<comment><USER17> You got downvoted by the boring universe police. No speculation allowed, especially if it is grand or contains any hint of the poetic.</comment></comment></comment>


Nexus 6P – Real time customer reviews - <AUTHOR> https://feedcheck.co/blog/nexus-6p-customer-reviews/ <comment><AUTHOR> Every day we will publish a new real time widget. Please tell us if you have a preferred product :)</comment>


Launch HN: A bill pay service and more for individuals and households - <AUTHOR> https://payingsimply.com <comment><AUTHOR> I recently launched a startup to provide cost-effective, on-time bill pay solutions to the everyday person that reduces the burden of keeping track of the various household service providers and utilities that need to be paid. We simply want to make this area of your life easier to manage and be of service to you.

To provide additional value we also give you monthly updates on all your managed accounts, variances from prior months, remind you when any contracts are up, give insights on potential savings, and can assist setting up new accounts, switching providers, and terminating services.

PayingSimply [https://payingsimply.com](https://payingsimply.com)

What makes us different? Check out our FAQS [https://payingsimply.com/faqs](https://payingsimply.com/faqs)

I also posted this on Product Hunt. It'll go live Tuesday, 03/10/2020, at 9AM ET.

Product Hunt PayingSimply Release [https://www.producthunt.com/posts/payingsimply](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/payingsimply)</comment>


Successful women in Open Source: Interview w/ Drupal Core Maintainer Angie Byron - <AUTHOR> http://www.port25.ca/2010/12/08/dev-profile-angie-byron/

<comment><USER2> I first met Angie doing work on Drupal during the Google Summer of Code. Angie's energy is palpable in person and online. It's always been great to work with her and she is one of the main reasons that I still do work with Drupal today.

<comment><USER3> +1. I have enjoyed meeting webchick at the DrupalCamps and DrupalCon and working with her in the issue queues. She's even on IRC most of the time and will gladly engage in code discussions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Drupal wouldn't be where it is today without webchick and it's community. She deserves recognition for her hard work with Drupal 7 and it's nice to see this community agrees.</comment>


A birthday present from Broadcom - <AUTHOR> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/6299 <comment><USER3> If you want to go straight to the horse's mouth and just start hacking (this is _Hacker_ News, after all!), the Broadcom downloads are here:

* BCM21553 VideoCore IV graphics driver source: [http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/Brcm_Android_...](http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/Brcm_Android_ICS_Graphics_Stack.tar.gz)

* BCM21553 VideoCore IV documentation: [http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/VideoCoreIV-A...](http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/VideoCoreIV-AG100-R.pdf)

<comment><USER4> Good ol' gzip download, because fuck source control.

edit: FWIW, a friend who works there told me flat-out to just avoid them (I'm job-hunting)

<comment><USER5> This is almost a universal problem with firmware and chip engineers, who are generally older and more experienced, and thus apparently can't be taught new tricks. There are also issues with bureaucracies in each and every semiconductor company (which are on average decades old) so firmware is usually hot potatoed around by management and ends up lighting the customers' projects on fire almost every damn time. I don't have enough fingers to count how many times I've encountered problems in a project and wasted weeks treading water, eventually to find out that the code examples weren't tested, a parameter that closely effects very sensitive silicon isn't documented, or even that I can't so much as get the documentation for a licensed USB peripheral that is non EHCI compliant (who knew such a thing even existed anymore).

Everyone from Broadcom to Qualcomm (and many more) are guilty of this and it is a very rare treat to find a chip that is well documented with firmware and code examples that work and give you a full picture of what you can do and where the pitfalls are.

<comment><USER6> Wow, armchair engineer, you sound like you really know what you're talking about.

When this old engineer worked on embedded MIPS cores and 802.11[abgn] at Broadcom, everything was under source code control. This was pre-git, so I think we were using cvs. How the hell do you conclude that releasing a zip file means the engineers don't use source code control?

<comment><USER7> Those kids on HN think that everything cool was invented last summer by some new college grad, funny thing is most of stuff was already invented in 70's but who would care about prehistory of computing.

<comment><USER8> Yea. I totally remember Web Browsers, Big Data, and Terabyte hard drives back in the 70's. It's too bad that these things were lost to the ages, only to be re-invented in the present.

<comment><USER9> New names for old ideas.

<comment><USER8> Based on that, SpaceX isn't a big deal, because of the Apollo program, right?

<comment><USER10> Especially because of the Apollo program. SpaceX for all its efficiency, just goes to show how far the present and past few generations have dropped the ball.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Proud to have worked on this during my 8-month internship at Broadcom. It remains one of the toughest and rewarding projects to tackle within the company. I am pleasantly surprised to see Broadcom open up like this and release the full documentation. A step in the right direction for a grossly under-rated company.

<comment><USER12> I've never heard of an 8-month internship. What sort of program is that? Like a semester+summer?

<comment><USER13> My university (Montreal ETS) also do it. They have 3 (real/full) semesters per years. Students usually take 1 of them per year to work as interns. You can technically work as intern for like 5 years and still be considered enrolled into the engineering program. Students will either prefer 8 months internship for well paid jobs or jobs that cannot be done in a 4 months development cycle(like a video game). In the end, it does increase the total time spent to graduate, but students tend to have much lower debts (if not profit) at the end.

These kind of deals seem to be quite widespread in Canada (just like the above commenter show). I know these private sector <-> teaching organization deals are not well considered in some part of the world, but, in the end, someone who just graduated, but accumulate years of full time working experience have an easier time landing a job at the end, at least for STEM jobs.

<comment><USER14> Its a sweet deal for companies if you think about it. Maybe benefits are different in Canada, since I heard that the Govt. provides healthcare, but in the US, the employer has to provide that. Plus, more salary, 401(k) etcetc.

Actually, from another viewpoint, for small companies its very beneficial to hire interns; they can be used to work on projects which might be interesting but have low financial returns.

Which leads me to conclude that > 3 month internships should perhaps be allowed only if you're working at a startup, or small-scale shops that can't really (I mean really really) afford to pay you. For a company like Broadcomm, that doesn't make sense.

Of course, this is just my subjective viewpoint. I'm inclined to believe that my sense of justice might be very skewed.

<comment><USER13> Interns are being paid in every fields but medicine and education. Some technical schools (including mine) will refuse internships paid anywhere near minimum salary (they care way to much about the statistics and marketing, which is, in turn, a good deal for students too). I am not claiming it is Klondike for every interns (it's not), but having a ~20$/h-30$/h mostly tax free salary is really helpful to avoid loans with interest. Education is not very expensive in Quebec, fees will be around 6k$ / year (9 15 weeks courses + 1x internship fees, books/material not included) but after adding the cost, of life, the rent, food and everything, it get to around 20k$/y. Given the state provided healthcare and services the first quarter* of the citizen have to pay for, it is even financial beneficial to some people.

*(The other three would be elders, children and the ones below poverty threshold)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> That's really a surprise. Broadcom is cemented in my mind as one of the hardest companies to get even basic datasheets out of.

I know the saying is "don't look a gift horse in the mouth", but could it be that their graphics cores are not competitive in pure technical capabilities, so they've decided to compete on open-ness? I'm not really involved in that area of hardware/software.

<comment><USER16> Nope (though note, I'm biased for several reasons). In terms of performance per unit area and performance per Watt, VideoCore IV is about as good as you're going to get. There are chips with higher performance GPUs out there, but they get there by brute force: throwing area (and therefore cost) and/or power at the problem.

<comment><USER17> This is confirmed by the recent move of AMD towards extremely hot GPUs. You already see that in the most recent 290x, but they're talking about making hardware that is comfortable running at >100C.

I'm not sure how relevant that is with regards to performance per watt, but I do know that heat is one of the most expensive (by-)products of electricity.

<comment><USER18> Isn't there some theorem of thermodynamics that says your device gets more efficient as the temperature difference between the hot and cold parts of the device increases?

AFAIK the only reasons devices aren't run at arbitrarily high temperatures is that material properties change unfavorably, or you risk fires.

<comment><USER19> The efficiency thing is more about heat engines. When we're just dissipating heat, the relevant relationship is that the rate of heat transfer is proportional to the temperature difference. This is why a hot object that isn't producing heat will cool exponentially. In the case of a steady-state source of heat, the temperature difference will be inversely proportional to the thermal conductivity of the connection between hot and cold reservoirs. Heatsinks and fans are used to increase that thermal conductivity so that the temperature difference stays small enough that the absolute temperature is safe. If you can double the tolerable temperature difference, then you can cut your fan speeds by more than half, or even get by with passive convection.

Or, approaching things differently, if you're only going to keep your graphics card for two or three years, there's no reason to let the fans spin up to an audible level until the chip reaches at least 80 degrees C.

Addressing a common misconception: fan speed/noise is not directly related to how much the graphics card is heating up the room by. Whether you run the fans at full tilt or you let the chip almost melt, the heat output will depend only on the workload.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> _But we're incredibly proud that VideoCore IV is the first publicly documented mobile graphics core_

Wasn't Intel first by virtue of using their in-house "HD Graphics" hardware in Silvermont (Bay Trail-M and -T)? Regardless, this is a _huge_ thing in the ARM world, and I hope other vendors will begin to open up documentation.

<comment><USER21> Bay Trail-M means "mobile" as in "laptop", not "mobile" as in "smartphone". Intel's smartphone stuff all still using PowerVR, including the upcoming Merrifield which will be using the PowerVR G64x0.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> > _" Earlier today, Broadcom announced the release of full documentation for > the VideoCore IV graphics core, and a complete source release of the > graphics stack under a 3-clause BSD license. The source release targets the > BCM21553 cellphone chip, but it should be reasonably straightforward to port > this to the BCM2835, allowing access to the graphics core without using the > blob. As an incentive to do this work, we will pay a bounty of $10,000 to > the first person to demonstrate to us satisfactorily that they can > successfully run Quake III at a playable framerate on Raspberry Pi using > these drivers. "_

At last!

<comment><USER23> Just $10,000? Nice gesture, but they can afford to dig a little deeper. Their card running Quake III at reasonable frame rate on a Pi is a big deal, and these cheap skates know it. (I hope the person who figures it out, doesn't give them the code; just show them and collect $10,000 (A years rent in a bad part of Oakland).

<comment><USER24> (a) They are a charity.

(b) They demonstrated the Pi running Quake 3 at a reasonable frame rate in 2011. There's a picture of it in the blog post.

(c) The competition rules say "To submit an Entry, and Entrant shall email a link to a public GitHub repository containing the full source code for the Entry..." so just showing the result wouldn't be eligible to win. That and they already know what it looks like, because of (b).

<comment><USER25> They aren't really a charity; they sell a product from a manufacturer (the Broadcom SoC) and were started by Broadcom employees. So, in a way, this "charity" is really just a marketing subsidiary of Broadcom.

<comment><USER26> Whatever RasPi is, the fact remains that they're selling a relatively open platform at price near production costs. And that platform just got significantly more open.

And they are now offering a bounty for the creation (refinement, really) of more free software. Which will benefit the entire community surrounding the RasPi. So that is good. Even if they were offering $10 USD, there might be someone who'll take up the challenge just to get the bragging rights.

<comment><USER25> "Relatively open" in the way that your mother was "relatively pregnant" when you were born?

<comment><USER27> Are you suggesting he's a premie?

<comment><USER25> No, I'm suggesting that "relatively open" is semantically null.

<comment><USER26> _No, I 'm suggesting that "relatively open" is semantically null._

I don't know if you are familiar with the embedded world, but a large percentage of the offerings (specifically system on chip or SoC) have NDA requirements for the documentation.

And many of these platforms don't have a decent Linux port, even though they could support it.

Even with SoC vendors such as TI, the graphics core for the OMAP4 (for example) is a binary blob. There is no documentation for that, and no hope that situation to change (in part because TI has exited the mobile phone market).

Please tell us of your mobile platform experience, and what vendors you consider open or closed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> On the one hand as someone who owns half a dozen Raspberry Pis this is really cool news and I hate to look a gift horse in the mouth.

On the other hand, ARM vendors really have to start opening everything up much more than they have or Intel is going to start eating their lunch in the small embedded Linux arena, and I suspect Intel's mobile resurgence with Bay Trail is at least partly behind this "gift" to us all.

<comment><USER29> I don't know anything about mobile, but I've been looking at replacing my htpc ION system (edit: not that it really needs it, frankly it works great) and fanless baytrail boards/cases look _very_ interesting. More cost than a pi + pi codec licensing obviously - but not that much, and all open as you pointed out...

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> The main touchy-feely moment for me here is that a notoriously closed, $17-billion company was brought around by a friendly, gentle approach to convincing it to be more open. Group hug for Broadcom.

<comment><USER31> Same could be said of their (albeit paltry) wifi open driver support since 2011. They at least have one now, for very few chipsets. Doesn't work with any of the half dozen Broadcom NICs I have in my "junk parts" bin, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> This is a step in the right direction. Does this mean that the RaspberryPi can run blob-free now or with one less blob? I don't know what else is needed for the SoC to operate.

<comment><USER16> Not quite yet. We're hoping to be able to provide a minimum-functionality blobless world fairly soon.

<comment><USER33> I think this is another example of how Raspberry Pi Foundation's decision not to move forward with a gazillion different boards, but rather to stick with A and B and let the software evolve, was a good one.

I'm very excited to see what the next year brings.

<comment><USER34> Yea with this happening I think what I would love is a bit more cpu power on the pi. Not even the new 64bit arm cores or anything but an A-15 or A-9 at double the MHz of the existing PI would put it in a huge sweetspot for embedded performance and make it far more usable for a desktop (with ideally more ram too but that's always good).

<comment><USER35> To be fair, the Pi opened the floodgates in terms of ARM boards; there are now loads of them.. not $25 but nothing like the insane pre-pi prices. The beaglebone black from TI is a good step up: 1Ghz A8 (~2x rPi performance), 1GB ram, $45. They don't really need to segment themselves (yet), as others can fill in the gaps.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Well, let's see if someone can get Android to use the GPU now.

And yes, I'm not expecting miracles -- even though Broadcom never released their 4.x port, what they demoed on the-teaser-video-that-was-never-followed- up-on seemed "fast enough" for a number of purposes.

<comment><USER37> IIRC one of the bigger obstacles to RPi Android support was that the driver libs were linked against glibc. There will be other bumps, but just getting these linked against bionic will be a big help.

I'd love to see Android support, if only for Android's recovery system and read-only system images.

</comment></comment><comment> josh-wrale I wonder if anything GPGPU will become of this... I'm thinking it's probably not possible. OpenCL?

<comment><USER38> One of the bullet points on the broadcom blog post is: "Write general-purpose code leveraging the GPU compute capability on VideoCore devices"

<comment> josh-wrale Keen eye (and mind).. Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I'm building an environment for computer vision, and I recently made a client that can run on the rpi (two minute video if you're interested: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSigkvbpb_Q](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSigkvbpb_Q)). I'm not exactly sure what possibilities this opens up, but I'm definitely going to dig into it and find out.

</comment><comment><USER40> Wow. In due time these guys might start actually releasing datasheets to developers who, you know, need to know the register set and API to like, make their chips work. I don't know why the hell these idiots treat their firmware APIs with Manhattan-project style secrecy, but I would highly advise against designing a new product with a broadcom chipset. They are totally asinine.

<comment><USER41> Wow. Much open, such surprise.

What next, a full BCM2835 datasheet?

To put in the words of Torvalds: "Hey, this time I'm raising a _thumb_ for Broadcom. Good times."

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> This is great news. Hopefully this means that ports of android and chromiumOS will be able to utilize this.

</comment><comment><USER43> > In common with every other ARM-based SoC, using the VideoCore IV 3d graphics > core on the Pi requires a block of closed-source binary driver

The Lima driver for ARM Mali is open source and runs Quake 3!

<comment><USER44> > The Lima driver for ARM Mali is open source and runs Quake 3!

But the Lima driver was created by reverse engineering instead of using publicly available documentation.

<comment><USER45> Any open source replacement for the Raspberry Pi GPU driver is going to rely pretty heavily on reverse engineering too. The code they've released runs on the VPU, a custom-designed scalar processor within the VideoCore IV that Broadcom still haven't released architecture documentation or a toolchain for. Without a whole bunch of low-level reverse engineering (much of which was already in progress) it won't even be possible to compile the stuff Broadcom have released. Without working VPU code you can't even boot the Pi, let alone make use of graphics.

<comment><USER16> That's not correct. The code that's been released is for BCM21553, which doesn't have a VPU. There are bits and pieces of VPU assembler in there, but they're unused on the ARM target. The intention is that people port this (ARM- based) drop to run on the ARM on BCM2835. No reverse engineering required.

<comment><USER45> Ah, that makes more sense, thanks! There's an awful lot of vestigial VPU- related stuff lying around the source tree, including what I'm guessing are the unused remnants of a dead build system...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> They donate to WebKit? I thought that was fully funded by apple.

<comment><USER47> Google funds WebKit as well.

<comment><AUTHOR> No, they did fund large parts of it, but forked quite a while ago.

<comment><USER48> They were actually the biggest contributor, above Apple, for a while before the fork.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> This is awesome news. I hope other vendors follow suit.

</comment><comment><USER50> Quick noob question...is the Pi still the best/most flexible option for general hardware hacking? What about ARM dev boards from Samsung, Qualcomm etc?

<comment><USER51> 'Best' can measured in a few ways, the RPi has a huge community, and it's certainly a bargain (though you will end up buying a bunch of odds and ends to get going). The Beaglebone Black is probably the other major contender, way more GPIO pins, can boot from the onboard memory, is ARMv7, for $10 more.

<comment><USER52> BeagleBone Black has just one USB port, which is often very inconvenient. For example, if you want to run Octoprint accessible via WiFi and control a 3d printer, two USB ports will be needed. Certainly, a USB hub is an option, but it makes the setup more brittle (some USB WiFi dongles won't work over some hubs) and more expensive.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> This is genuinely great news & a vast improvement over the previous graphics driver!

Hopefully this means we'll see proper DRM / Gallium support for the IV & I'm looking forward to seeing what people can come up with now that they have full access to the GPU.

Congrats to Eben & the team - you've done good.

</comment><comment><USER54> This is incredible. Thank you Broadcom!

</comment><comment><USER55> I remember how satisfying it was to get that demo to work back in 2011 (thanks to the help of Dave Emett). Feels like an incredibly long time ago now! I wonder what framerate people will be able to achieve...

</comment><comment><USER56> It's great news. It's also not quite enough to get rid of the entire binary blob, as the article notes near the bottom. (I have the feeling some didn't read that far.)

</comment><comment><USER57> Oh woah - I'm very happy about the BSD license. This means people can more easily potentially spin up business around this platform. I wonder why they chose it...

Does anyone have any insight?

<comment><USER16> BSD-like licenses seem to be the standard for userland graphics libraries. There's a lot of useful stuff in there (for example the shader compiler) that may be of general use elsewhere, and we wanted to make sure people could use it.

The 3-clause BSD is a compromise - we're happy for the stuff to be used but it's nice to get some credit :)

<comment><USER57> Thank you for the clarification. It seems overly generous =)

Often code is GPL'd with pricey licenses for commercial applications - <USER2> always makes me think twice about investing my time into familiarizing with it.

I'm very impressed they aren't trying to make a quick buck here. It sounds like they have a very innovative long term strategy that will pay off many times over.

I think your competition is also fantastic, as it will encourage people to open source their improvements.

Thank you for all your hard work Dr.Upton

<comment><USER16> You're most welcome. Good times.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> My favourite part of this announcement is:

* Okay, so sue us __: we launched on February 29. __Please don't sue us.

</comment><comment><USER59> This has been my biggest disappointment about the raspi since day one. If true, this is huge news indeed.

</comment><comment><USER60> Would be awesome if we soon see OpenCl on the RPi. Now I've got to go find mine!

</comment><comment><USER61> lol i lost it...

> Okay, so sue us: we launched on February 29.

> Please don't sue us.

</comment><comment><USER62> Celebrate the open source release of the drivers by giving out a price for making a non-free software run on it? Also one that the intended audience of the hardware is not allowed to play? Seems a bit odd.

(The Quake 3 engine is open source and free nowadays, but the assets and maps are not, so you cannot run "Quake 3" without using the demo. So "Quake 3" is non-free.)

<comment><USER63> Erm, I'm pretty sure you can use a shareware version (!) of the Q3 assets. Or any of a number of other things.

The idTech2 and idTech3 engines are standbys of the open sores community--it makes sense to use them for testing graphics drivers. You are far more likely to encounter a bug in your driver than in those engines.

<comment><USER62> Even if free as beer, the demo version is non-free, in an open source sense.

Sure, but you could use any of the many projects built on the open Q3 engine that are actually free as in speech. (And maybe child-friendly)

Also, to be clear: I find it odd, but still a fun endeavor.</comment></comment></comment>


Operating Broadcom Wi-Fi Chips as Arbitrary Signal Transmitters, Like SDRs - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/seemoo-lab/mobisys2018_nexmon_software_defined_radio <comment><AUTHOR> There are some interesting applications...

 _Matthias Schulz, Jakob Link, Francesco Gringoli, and Matthias Hollick._ __Shadow Wi-Fi: Teaching Smartphones to Transmit Raw Signals and to Extract Channel State Information to Implement Practical Covert Channels over Wi-Fi. ___Accepted to appear in Proceedings of the 16th ACM International Conference on Mobile Systems, Applications, and Services, MobiSys 2018, June 2018._

 _Matthias Schulz._ __Teaching Your Wireless Card New Tricks: Smartphone Performance and Security Enhancements through Wi-Fi Firmware Modifications. ___Dr.-Ing. thesis, Technische Universität Darmstadt, Germany, February 2018._

But the papers are nowhere to be found. Just went through peer review and still waiting for public publication?

<comment><USER2> Secure mixnet using Android devices would be very cool.

<comment><AUTHOR> Chaum's Store-and-Forward mixnet or Tor's Realtime Onion Routing? I think both can be built with Wi-Fi Direct on Android. But the end-point security may be less-than-ideal...

<comment><USER2> I don't know. Maybe Riffle. Mostly it was the idea of using a custom spread- spectrum channel with strong encryption.

Edit: + covert channels

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is exactly the sort of thing why FCC wants to lock down wlan ap/router firmwares. So, while a cool hack indeed, it is also bit unfortunate that it also kinda justifies FCCs position

<comment><USER4> Yeah that's not a strong argument at all. The 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands are known widely as "garbage bands" due to how terrible they are to work with (e.g. rain will heavily attenuate your signal, they're literally how microwaves work to cook your food, etc.).

Moreover, there are plenty of radios on the market that transmit all kinds of noise on these channels that _isn 't_ WiFi (e.g. my neighbors had a baby monitor that I could tell when it was on by how shit my WiFi was at that moment, FPV drones somewhat frequently use this band with proprietary analog video transports, etc.) This is permitted because these channels are "unregulated" (or, more realistically, "regulated for unlicensed operation").

On top of that, the FCC's official statement on this very topic was that what they really care about is the amount of _power_ being put into these channels, as some aftermarket router firmwares of varying repute would let you crank the output wattage above FCC regulations for these frequencies (<1W power to stay within unlicensed operation regulations for 2.4GHz), and apparently some in- market WiFi routers picked up those firmwares as a "supported" option (I think ASUS and Linksys were both named). Most of these routers have since patched themselves to stay regulation-safe.

So, go nuts, just stay below 30 dBm/1W from the transmitter in 2.4Ghz channels or prepare for a visit from the FCC. (You'll have to do your own research for 5GHz).

<comment><USER5> Does this mean the 3W and 5W amplified Wi-Fi dongles all over ebay aren't actually legal? :(

I realize they're probably terrible quality, and that they're really just Wi- Fi dongles with amplifiers tacked on, and that overly loud signal amplification destroys close range performance - but still, I'd been meaning to get a couple of these and see how good they are.

<comment><USER6> Please don't

<comment><USER5> Forgive my denseness, but I'm honestly/genuinely not sure what you mean by your comment.

<comment><USER6> My comment was to discourage illegal and generally noisy low quality WiFi equipment that degrades the shared spectrum

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It is impossible for you to redistribute this software or any sort of resulting binary.

It would be based on both their GPLv3 and their no-military licenses simultaneously. The linked requires another depot based on GPLv3 to function and perform patching. The resulting software would then undistributable as you cannot possibly comply with both the GPLv3 and their no-military license. GPLv3 would permit distribution to military and not permit you to restrict them and the other would prohibit military.

Additionally this should be considered a violation of Gitbub's Terms of Use. It is intentionally discriminatory against another group: Any given military. For example, the content hosted on GitHub is intentionally discriminatory toward the Deutsches Heer.

</comment><comment><USER8> Considering the wildly varied performance of smartphone GPS implementations I'd love to use this to build my own WAAS emitter so that when me and 10 of my closest friends play ingress we're where we are supposed to be. But that would be based on using a higher accuracy source (think pucks that have better antennae, higher accuracy GPS chips and can see the other satellites as well).

Unfortunately I don't think some people could ignore the potential for abuse. _If only I could be 15 feet to the left_ where the other guy's crappy GPS puts him. At some point I'm hoping my city will put up a few WAAS transmitters to help in the glass canyon that is our downtown.

</comment><comment><USER9> Only in WiFi bands.. so not super flexible as you would expect from an actual SDR rig.. or maybe I'm missing that it can actually transmit in other bands ?

<comment><USER10> This particular hardware may be limited to those frequencies but I believe the Mediatek combo chips that do WiFi+BT+GPS+GLONASS+Beidou+FM as well as GSM are capable of a much wider range. WiFi and BT are at 2.4GHz but GSM/UMTS/LTE reach up to 2.6GHz and down to 800-900MHz, and the various navigation systems use frequencies in the 1.x GHz range. From what I've read, only the FM hardware is different due to its vastly different frequency (76-108MHz, although the hardware could probably go beyond those ranges slightly) but everything else is based on the same SDR.

<comment><USER9> Which chips are those? Most of those solutions I had seen were not actually a single output stage but rather each band had dedicated pins that went out to dedicated PA's in many cases. So wifi/BT has its own antenna and front end etc.. same for the other bands..

<comment><USER10> Start on page 34 of this:

[http://www.datasheetspdf.com/datasheet/download.php?id=73999...](http://www.datasheetspdf.com/datasheet/download.php?id=739995)

The combo chip itself probably has multiple SDRs internally so that e.g. you can use GPS and WiFi/BT simultaneously, but they can be connected externally to the same antenna through a diplexer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is a continuation of a 2016 work on bcm4339 firmware.

[https://2016.mrmcd.net/fahrplan/system/event_attachments/att...](https://2016.mrmcd.net/fahrplan/system/event_attachments/attachments/000/002/897/original/nexmon_mrmcd16.pdf)

RaspberryPee wifi chipset (BCM43438) is a close cousin and previous work (monitor mode, sending raw frames) was ported last year.

[https://dev.seemoo.tu-darmstadt.de/bcm/bcm- rpi3/tree/master/...](https://dev.seemoo.tu-darmstadt.de/bcm/bcm- rpi3/tree/master/firmware_patching/nexmon)

so there is a chance this could to, it would mean $30 self contained 2.4/5 GHz SDR.

</comment><comment><USER12> Halfway to making a handheld radar.

<comment><USER13> What's the missing half?

<comment><USER14> Quadrature receiver.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Nice to see that instead of a free license they've opted for a bullshit made- up one where they want you to cite their papers.

<comment><USER16> The license is MIT but not MIT. It's the MIT license with two additional conditions imposed;

\- The one you mentioned about citation.

\- "The Software is not used by, in cooperation with, or on behalf of any armed forces, intelligence agencies, reconnaissance agencies, defense agencies, offense agencies or any supplier, contractor, or research associated."

[https://github.com/seemoo- lab/mobisys2018_nexmon_software_de...](https://github.com/seemoo- lab/mobisys2018_nexmon_software_defined_radio/blob/master/LICENSE)

Even just the one about citation is problematic but IMO the condition about armed forces and so on is even worse. I kind of see where they are coming from but I wish people just used standard MIT and acknowledged that yes your software might end up being used for something that you do not agree with morally.

And if they are going to impose such restrictions, why stop there? Why not also say that you cannot use the software to transmit for example child pornography? And how about saying that you cannot use it to spread false information, fake news etc?

I would be exaggerating, but not much, if I were to say that as soon as you introduce one or more moral restrictions into a software license, you are implicitly saying that any moral concern _not_ mentioned is ok.

How about terrorism? They didn't say anything about terrorism so I guess using their software for terror is fine as long as the terrorists are not an "armed force", an intelligence agency etc.

Technology has infitinite uses, a whole host of which are good, probably as many that are bad, and likewise an uncountable amount of uses that are either neither or both, and very many that will be one thing for some people and the other for other people.

It should in my opinion not be the job of a software license to pass moral judgement. Either you release your software for anyone to use for any purpose under the terms of an unmodified license accepted by the community or you might as well not bother trying to be open source at all.

<comment><USER17> > Why not also say that you cannot use the software to transmit for example > child pornography?

Because it's already illegal, so the point would be a noop. On the other hand, contracting for the army is legal and one of the places where licenses may be reviewed/enforced internally.

Same for terrorism. (Also, why would terrorists respect the license)

<comment><USER18> But as parent said, "Technology has infitinite uses", so what about the other infinite uses?

<comment><USER19> Well I guess you can divide them in illegal uses (license does not matter) and legal uses (license could matter). I guess from all the legal uses, the authors disliked military etc. use enough to exclude it. Their choice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> This opens up some exciting new ways to break radio spectrum laws! (I see the Raspberry Pi W is supported there... Hmmm...)

<comment><USER21> Or get a ham radio license and go wild (within the limits of that license)

<comment><USER22> You have a point. 23cm band gives you a bandwidth of 60MHz to play with. The 13cm (2.3-2.45 GHz) playground also happens to be within the frequency range of your microwave oven (2.45GHz) so experimenting with high ERP in that area will probably have physiological consequences.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I'll stick with my RTL-SDR thanks :)

<comment><USER24> RTL-SDR is RX only.

<comment><USER25> It also has much lower bandwidth than a wifi chipset. (And doesn't even get close to the 5 GHz range.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> What was required to achieve this result ? That is, what did these folks have to break in order to gain control of the wifi chip in this way ?

How does this work compare to gaining (similar) access to the baseband processor on a phone ?

There should be a bounty for that ...</comment>


What was that big bet? - <AUTHOR>

I don't remember what this whole computer science argument was about but I was really interested (apparently too interested to remember). It was about this guy placing a big bet that something != something. Sorry for such ambiguity, but I can't recall the details. <comment><USER2> It's about P vs NP, and it wasn't a bet, it was just a statement that if the result had been proven then he, Scott Aaronson, would pay money.

You can read more about it here on HN:

<http://searchyc.com/submissions/NP?sort=by_date>

If you want authoritative commentary then Lipton's blog is the place to go:

If you want an overview of what it all means, I'm about to start writing a series for the non-specialist, non-mathematician, and you can vote for where you'd like me to start:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1674804> [https://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/the-p≠np-proof- is-...](https://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/the-p≠np-proof-is-one-week- old/)

</comment><comment><USER3> P!=NP:

"If Vinay Deolalikar is awarded the $1,000,000 Clay Millennium Prize for his proof of P≠NP, then I, Scott Aaronson, will personally supplement his prize by the amount of $200,000."

<http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=456>

<comment><AUTHOR> Precisely! Thank you!</comment></comment>


Minnesota woman broadcasts police stop and shooting on Facebook Live - <AUTHOR> https://www.facebook.com/100007611243538/videos/1690073837922975/?pnref=story <comment><USER2> Facebook can't sell itself as a new live media platform and then just remove videos that are politically disturbing.

As an aside, this is the 559th person killed by police in the United States this year. His name was Philando Castile. They were pulled over for a broken tail light. He was shot with a 4 year old child in the backseat of the car.

(you can find the video on youtube, twitter, and elsewhere, but be forewarned, it is disturbing)

<comment><USER3> 600th, if you count every death by a police officer: [http://killedbypolice.net/](http://killedbypolice.net/)

<comment><USER4> Being killed by police is still pretty rare in the US, even if you're not white. But then there are all the adverse nonlethal interactions.

I wonder if it's common enough for concerned people to have live feeds. Perhaps triggered by loud noises, shock waves, voice commands ("help!") etc. For groups, watching each other, and the environment.

<comment><USER5> If you compare "being killed by the police" to other causes of death, then yes, you can call it rare.

However, 600 killings in just over half a year is deeply troubling when you compare it to other first-world nations. For example, in Germany, the police kills approximately 6-8 people per year [1]. If you scale this number by the US/German population, it's equivalent to 24-32 police killing per year. Clearly, the U.S. has a problem.

[1]: [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_...](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_Deutschland)

<comment><USER4> Yes, the US does have a problem with police violence. And through mobile tech, it's being better documented.

<comment><USER6> Don't you see why we need police body cams? Imagine if the police had forced her to turn off the phone. This video wouldn't exist. We wouldn't have even known about this.

I remember being pulled over by the cops. I was on my phone while he was doing the license check, and the officer told me to turn off my phone. I complied, so it's interesting to see how this woman luckily got away with recording the video. If the police had told her to turn off the phone, there's nothing she could have done at that moment in time. All transparency of the incident would have been lost.

He's dead. My professor once said, "The police have gone from 'Serve and Protect' to 'Seek and Destroy'."

<comment><USER7> >the officer told me to turn off my phone. I complied

Why did you comply? He has no reason to ask that of you.

>If the police had told her to turn off the phone, there's nothing she could have done at that moment in time.

If a police officer tells you to turn off your phone, you don't have to listen to it. They cannot legally compel you to do that. They can tell you step back, and you should definitely take a couple step backwards if so. If they want you to stop recording, they need to arrest you and have probable cause for that arrest.

<comment><USER6> I'd rather comply then risk getting shot to death.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> After reading a few comments on how to behave when police stops you and how to tell them you're carrying gun I can't shake the feeling that this country is trapped in some sort of a deadly staring contest, if you blink you can die. You have armed people trying to police a nation where everyone can have a gun, and many do. With this sort of tension on a daily basis things will go wrong, someone will make a mistake, which seems to be what is happening every week. And then people see the news, get scared and buy more guns, because they feel in danger, and later you read more comments on how they should calmly explain that they had a gun when police stopped them.

<comment><USER9> Literally the only intelligent comment on here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> It appears someone posted it to YouTube

Pretty grim

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wuyXayGMB8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wuyXayGMB8)

</comment><comment><USER11> America has some institutional and cultural problems that no other developed, westernized democracy has, at least in terms of the extent of the problems. One of these is policing.

What happens in these cases is taxpayers will need to pay for a settlement. The officers, and their departments, are often not held seriously accountable. In the recent shooting of Alton Sterling that just happened, the officer's body cameras "fell off." Oh, oops. Why is that acceptable? Compare this to other professions: A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license. Police should be the most transparent of organizations, and the most scrutinized, not immune to it. What happened to protect and serve?

<comment><USER12> > A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It > is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license.

Medical errors are a significant cause of death. If the responsible clinician involved lost their life savings every time someone died after a mistake the US wouldn't have any doctors.

It also sounds like a lousy way to prevent medical error or to learn from mistakes.

Did you mean "mistake", or did you mean something like reckless negligence?

<comment><USER11> >Did you mean "mistake", or did you mean something like reckless negligence?

The comparison was to the body camera falling off, which seems closer to reckless negligence, but we don't often hear that language used when discussing policing. Maybe it should be, but let us please not go microscopic in a debate about the meaning of words here -- the comparison is valid, I believe, and I don't think you've shown why it is not?

All my argument is saying is that the bar is set extremely high for doctors, extremely low for policeman, and that police officers have an equally important job to do in society, and should be subject to similar standards.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> > "ma'am you're just being detained right now until we can get this all sorted > out."

Apparently owning a gun and letting the police know of that fact is enough to get you killed. Good luck sorting things out.

<comment><USER14> Not making any judgments or assumptions about what happened in this case, but there are better and worse ways of informing a police officer that you're carrying.

To start, not all states obligate concealed carry permit holders to inform police that they are carrying. However, if you're pulled over, and you do want to inform the officer, keep your hands on the wheel and calmly tell the officer that you have a permit to carry concealed. Tell them that you are currently doing so -- again, without having moved your hands. Ask them how they would like you to proceed.

You will probably be asked where the firearm is located. They might ask you to step out of the car so they can temporarily relieve you of your weapon. They might just say something like "don't reach for yours, and I won't reach for mine." Bottom line: let the officer guide you, and keep your movements slow and deliberate.

DON'T say the words "gun" or "weapon" or anything like that. Those are keywords that can trigger an instinctive reaction in the officer, and they might not be able to hear anything else you say thanks to a rush of adrenaline.

Interestingly, Minnesota is not a state where CCW holders are obligated to disclose their permit or weapon to peace officers.

<comment><USER15> The officer didn't even try to help the man as he was bleeding all over the car and clearly unconscious.

It's just unconscionable that a trained safety officer would allow someone to bleed like that, and even worse that the officer pulled the trigger.

<comment><USER16> The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out.

I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.

<comment><USER17> LEt's not play doctor after death. He shot 4 times someone who revealed he was open carrying, and had his daughter in the car.

Then he didn't provide basic assistance to someone shot even though he his trained for it.

<comment><USER16> How do you know he is trained for administering GSW treatment? We don't know the full story here and I was just trying to point out why the protocol is basically to secure the scene and wait for backup when you're alone.

<comment><USER18> I am only adding these posts for posterity's sake - in MN, there is an obligation to aid individuals who have been harmed and MN officers are trained to do this. Indeed, reports exist of MN officers responding to gun shot wounds (GSWs).

See my earlier posts:

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=12047969](https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=12047969)

[2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048024](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048024)

<comment><USER16> And again I will suggest that and officer will not do that alone, before backup arrives after a shooting like this. I saw somewhere else that once backup arrived they started CPR which would be in line with what I am trying to point out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Yesterday a man was killed by an officer in Louisiana. Headline: "Man shot by BRPD multiple times to chest and back; two officers placed on leave".

How the heck is "leave" a punishment worthy of homicide? And why are these videos always recorded by witnesses rather than body cameras on the police?

If we want to stop this from happening then change the officer's punishment to be a prison sentence, strap a camera on every police officer, make the footage available to the public, and fire people when the camera "falls off" or is "obstructed".

<comment><USER20> They are placed on leave because, even for Cops, we afford them the presumption of innocence. They are on leave while the investigation proceeds. I'm noting this exogenous to the video evidence that's in the public record now, and that I still believe that leave is appropriate while an investigation proceeds. Otherwise what we have is mob rule. I'm by no means defending the conduct of the officers that we've seen in these videos, but rule of law matters here. Even for Cops.

<comment><USER4> They're placed on leave because they might be guilty, I think. Because we want to keep trigger-happy cops off the street. If they're clearly guilty, they're fired, even before trial.

<comment><USER20> No, it is standard practice to place an officer on leave for _any_ officer involved shooting. It has nothing to do with them being "trigger-happy".

<comment><USER4> OK, so _why_ do they do that? Just PR? Out of concern for the officer?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Why can't we just take guns away from police officers. It would improve the safety of minorities, and also likely help reduce the attitude problems many officers have.

</comment><comment><USER21> Why has HN taken this off the front page without explanation?

<comment><USER22> Probably deemed to be off topic according to the HN guidelines: [https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

Although personally, it struck me as very strange that someone who's just witnessed her partner being shot (and who is currently in some need of medical treatment) that her reaction is to reach for her phone and the live streaming feature of an app. I certainly think that falls under "evidence of an interesting new phenomenon".

Edit: I don't mean "strange" in any kind of moral judgement. My heart goes out to this woman and her child who had to witness this and who've lost someone close to them. I mean strange in the sense that this isn't how I would expect someone to react.

Police brutality has been a serious problem in the US for decades, and it seems that putting a streaming video camera in everyone's pocket might help shift the narrative back in the people's favor.

<comment><USER4> Her actions demonstrated _amazing_ presence of mind. She's probably not trained as an EMT. But she did think to document the situation. It's just very lucky that they didn't shoot her too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> As someone who carries on a regular basis, the #1 rule when dealing with the police is compliance.

Yes sir, no sir, the weapon is on my hip, my hands are on the steering wheel and you don't move unless told to do so. A cop is always on edge during a traffic stop but even more so after you tell them you have a weapon. Quick movements after you tell them you are armed is not going to end well.

Obviously we don't know the whole story here as the video starts after the shooting, but hopefully there is body cam footage to clear everything up.

<comment><USER2> Oh, I think since cell phone cameras became ubiquitous we know enough stories to know the whole story, even if we haven't seen the exact details of this particular case yet.

<comment><USER16> > we know enough stories to know the whole story, even if we haven't seen the > exact details of this particular case yet

So you're assuming something happened without any evidence? That is a horrible way to go about things.

We saw the same thing in the Micheal Brown case, people threw crazy stories out there about him being executed with his hands up and people rioted, looted, and burned the town down. Then a few months later we saw the actual evidence that proved he attacked that officer, ran away, and came back.

<comment><USER2> I'm not assuming anything. I know that despite whatever happened in this particular case (though it would seem rare to tell a cop you have a gun and then try to shoot him with it, and then be a cop freaking out, cursing and shaking over what you have just done, and by all accounts this guy was a super stand up guy, great school employee, no rap sheet, etc, etc, etc), that despite whatever happened in this particular case we have a problem with institutionalized violence against bodies of color in the United States, especially Black males. We have a structural problem with highly militarized police that believe they are fighting a war against the people they are paid to protect. We have a problem with holding those police accountable for their actions. The whole story is a long story, starting with slavery, continuing through redlining and segregation, etc but this whole story is a story about cops that kill more people in a day in this country than other industrialized countries have in a year. It's a story about unarmed Black men being killed at disproportionate rates even while white mass shooters are brought in alive and heavily armed. It's a whole story about a lot of things actually - a prison industrial complex grown bloated, a war on drugs that doesn't work, police training that is incomplete or wrong, complacent citizens, etc.

But again, I'm not passing judgement on whether this particular killing was "justified" or not. I'm just saying we already know the whole story, and the whole story is bigger than this particular tragic ending.

<comment><USER16> I'd agree with you that some police are too heavy handed for the everyday situation. However, there are a lot of violence / gang problems within the black communities in the US. That leads to cities and police forces cracking down on those violent areas which leads to even more heavy handedness and even more distrust by those communities. Its a perpetual cycle.

It seems that we need a revolution on both sides for anything meaningful to happen. Sadly we probably won't see that happen anytime soon.

Hopefully we can at least pass some meaningful reform related to drug imprisonment which would keep a lot of people out of jail for petty things, which just ends up feeding the cycle to begin with.

<comment><USER18> I can't fully address your comment as I don't have access to the relevant data (regarding black community violence and its correlation with "heavy handed" police).

What I will suggest is that overall violence does not seem to be correlated with the rate of police killings - see the third image in ref. 1.

[1] [http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015](http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015)

EDIT:

I can't reply to you due to the HN rate limit. Please see my response below:

I appreciate your response but I take issue with the data source behind that post (ref 1). I don't intend to take it apart fully, but it _appeared_ to included factors (e.g., average commute time) that:

1\. Systematically disfavor urban areas

2\. Have little bearing to the question at hand, whether violence is correlated with police killings

Additionally, my claim above (2) is that violence and police killings, across the municipalities with the highest rates of police killings, _are not correlated_ (ref. 3).

[1] [http://places.findthehome.com/#guide](http://places.findthehome.com/#guide)

[2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048043](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048043)

[3] [http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54ecf211e4b0ed744420c5...](http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54ecf211e4b0ed744420c5b6/t/5677f85d1115e0704eb36ed3/1450702944850/)

<comment><USER16> Just via some quick googling, here are the most dangerous (violent) cities in the US. A lot of them match up to the top of the list you provided.

[http://kdvr.com/2015/05/08/by-the-numbers-here-are-the- most-...](http://kdvr.com/2015/05/08/by-the-numbers-here-are-the-most- dangerous-cities-in-america/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> this is heartbreaking

i am so saddened by the loss of life and i am so amazed by lavish and her girl

they are both affectingly strong

my best attempt at keeping my composure as well as them:

are officers trained to withhold giving medical aide?

i've seen this a lot in police videos, especially where a death is involved

why is this officer continuing to point a gun at a dying person?

was the officer preparing to shoot either the person bravely live broadcasting the situation in defiance of the gun, or the child in the backseat, if one tried to apply pressure to the wound or offer water to the victim?

<comment><USER4> She might have grabbed the gun, and shot back. That seems very unlikely, I know. But that seems to be how police are trained.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> once the lady was cuffed on the ground, I had to turn off - her anguish / pain got real fast. and to see her daughter in the background... :(

<comment><USER12> [https://youtu.be/Z1mlD3t2DV0?t=8m55s](https://youtu.be/Z1mlD3t2DV0?t=8m55s)

"it's okay, I'm right here with you" most heart breaking words from a 4 year old.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Currently the top story on the New York Daily News and the Washington Post.

</comment><comment><USER26> Link is dead.

<comment><USER27> fb probably shut it down. It had footage of a shooting. Very sad and grim stuff.

<comment><USER28> My guess would be she sold the rights to the highest bidder.

FB probably had no choice but to remove it.

<comment><USER2> This just happened an hour ago and she is reportedly still in custody.

<comment><USER10> Why'd they need to arrest her?

<comment><USER29> Police do this to build a story retroactively -- we shot a person, so ... to make it excusable we arrest their "accomplices" because officer so and so will make up some report about how they threatened his life with a gun. If they don't arrest her, then it looks like murder. Also if she was arrested, her side of the story immediately is less believable -- "clearly officer had a good reason to arrest her, we can't trust her words".

This happened in another case, where a person was shot in a store (Wal-Mart perhaps). Police then proceeded to heavily interrogate the partner and try to get them to admit the victim was "unstable", "drunk", "violent" and so on. Because it builds an excusable story so the officer is cleared of charges quicker (they don't have to actually resign and move one town over to another dept., but just get a 10 days paid vacation).

<comment><USER30> Reminds me of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6UhXivPyw4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6UhXivPyw4)

"Earlier today I spoke to their deputy leader Rory O'Connor, who under broadcasting regulations must inhale helium to subtract credibility from his statements."

(The actual broadcasting regulation was that Sinn Fein politicians couldn't have their voices heard on TV at all -- interviews, statements etc. had to be dubbed over.)

<comment><USER31> Why couldn't they have their voices heard on TV?

<comment><USER30> Britain wanted to delegitimize Sinn Fein.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9394_British_broadc...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9394_British_broadcasting_voice_restrictions)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> The disturbing thing for me is the cop seemed more concerned with keeping his gun out and barking orders than in administering any sort of aid. It seems the God complex is strong in this one that he can't even render aid to a dying human being but instead belittles him "I told you not to move" as if that excuses all of this. That lack of compassion is so disturbing.

I'm not a cop, I don't know why it is more important to point a gun at a dying man than render aid, but that's just one of the many thoughts this video evoked for me. So sad. I'm sure there's much more to this story to come.

Edit: if you are going to down vote please explain why. The cop is literally watching the man die right in front of him.

<comment><USER16> Posting this again as I replied to another user above:

The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out.

I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.

<comment><USER31> I care not why the officer himself didn't administer aid, but why the no aid was called in time.

<comment><USER16> Aid would have been called by the dispatcher when the officer radios in that there was a shooting.

<comment><USER31> Would have, but it wasn't.

<comment><USER16> Source?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad cop with a gun.

<comment><USER34> Really? Because this guy in the car had a gun, may have been a good guy, and was shot by a police officer.

<comment><USER35> From what little information we have so far, he _was_ a good guy, with a minor criminal history who sought to improve his life, ultimately resulting in working the same job for over a decade. That last point is more than can be said about a lot of us here on HN, let's be frank about that. Other than my own business, I haven't held a job longer than a few years. It shows a commitment to his community and the kids he literally and figuratively served while on the job.

He tried to do what he knew was the right thing to do. Sadly, it wasn't _exactly_ the right thing in the eyes of the officer involved. Therein will lie the crux of this matter: what led this officer to believe that shooting the man was the correct response? Where did the system fail? Was it at the precinct leadership level? The academy level? Societal or socioeconomic? Because there was a pair of failures here: something or someone failed to prepare the officer for how to handle this situation, and more heart-breaking, something or someone failed to keep the man alive.</comment></comment></comment>


Tanglewood: A brand new game for the Sega Mega Drive - <AUTHOR> http://tanglewoodgame.com/index.html <comment><USER2> I came across this a few weeks ago, what really fascinated me was the development kit video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLfNgKutK-g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLfNgKutK-g)

He uses an original SEGA Mega Drive/MegaCD development kit, and a crusty old PC to go with it. I'll never complain about my developer tools again.</comment>


Soylent: A Very Bad Idea - <AUTHOR> http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2013/03/soylent-very-bad-idea.html <comment><USER2> Someone needs to explain the difference between correlation and causation.

Birthday parties are very strongly correlated with living longer. Party every day, you'll never die, right?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I've gone on the diet that Giles mentions (Eat to Live by Dr. Fuhrman) and I've also had a significant amount of weight loss, but none of the other benefits Giles experienced (as far as I could tell).

There's actually a meal-replacement shake called Shakeology that is made from all-natural ingredients (among others, I'm sure). The two problems I had with trying to replace one meal a day with a Shakeology shake are 1) at $5 a shake (just for the powder), it's really expensive, and 2) after a week or so, I would get ravenously hungry half an hour after drinking the shake.

It would be interesting to compare Soylent and Shakeology on a vitamin or even chemical basis.

</comment><comment><USER3> I read this as a thinly veiled "eat whole foods" argument. Same criticism applies to such arguments as was voiced in previous articles about soylent. Just as a simple counter example, I don't like tomatoes and therefore don't eat them, so far I'm doing just fine, so clearly whatever "phytonutrients" exist in tomatoes, the human body clearly doesn't "need" them.

I'm still far more interested in whatever the results of the Soylent guys experiment turn out to be than whatever the results of this guys fad diet turn out to be because at the end of the day, what's being done with Soylent is at least marginally scientific in nature.

</comment><comment><USER4> Most of my college meals consisted of pizza, ramen, and soda. The human body does pretty well with the shit I often give it. If someone wants to hack their body to improve their health; I'm all for it.</comment>


Show HN: Detect Throwaway Accounts [Firefox Exploit] - <AUTHOR> https://diafygi.github.io/detect-throwaways/index.html

<comment><USER2> You sure it's a proper bug?

Unless you're scraping IP addresses, this didn't work.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm not quite sure what you mean by scraping IP addresses. Care to elaborate?</comment></comment>


Why Android Updates Are So Slow - <AUTHOR> http://www.marco.org/2013/03/19/why-android-updates-are-so-slow <comment><USER2> I think comparisons between update the frequency of two different types of software is foolish.

"Operating system" means different things to different people, and Android is not a OS in the sense that iOS is one.

iOS is the software that comes preinstalled on the iPhone. Android is the cross-platform environment that companies like Samsung use as a base for the software that comes preinstalled on their devices.

An "iOS release" is the time when the ROM that is delivered to the iPhone is finished and has been tested. An "Android release" is a milestone when about 70% of Samsung's ROM is finished, and they now start adding customizations, applications, QA etc.

New features to the Apple app store and iTunes are part of an iOS version update. The Play store, Google Music, Maps etc are updated multiple times each year, often to devices that are based on an older version of Android.

Don't get me wrong: Version legacy is a problem for most Android engineers. It becomes better with every release (2.3 is much more fun to code for that 1.6 was). But of course we would all like to work for the latest version as soon as it is released.

But on the other hand: At least we __do __have a cross platform technology like Android now. There used to be 100s of devices before Android was around, and companies like Apple still do this "make a new app just for our phone" thing. I'm very glad that today I can write a single application for HTC sense and Samsung TouchWiz. It's not a 100% perfect cross platform environment, and somestimes I still have to write some extra code for each devices.

But a 90% cross platform technology with legacy problems is still much better than not having a cross platform technology in the first place.

As for the consumer point of view: "Android" is not what he is buying. If a device gets updates or does not depend on the software, but on the service provider who is responsible for the software on your phone. That is usually the company that you bought the phone from.

Samsung's top phones get an OS update about once per year, just like Apple does it. For about two years after it was released, which is worse than Apple, but not aweful.

Some vendors are better (Google, Asus), some are worse (LG, Motorola). But that is not a software issue. It's just a misunderstanding that companies and press are not good at explaining to consumers: That Android is not an alternative to the iPhone. Galaxy S, HTC One and Nexus are, and you don't get the same software and service if you buy any of these.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> "The Android way: Our problems become your problems."</comment>


Nike's Self-Lacing Sneakers Turn into Bricks After Faulty Firmware Update - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/my-left-shoe-wont-even-reboot-faulty-app-bricks-nike-smart-sneakers/ <comment><USER2> At least they don't explode like these ones.

[https://www.news.com.au/sport/basketball/basketball-fans- roa...](https://www.news.com.au/sport/basketball/basketball-fans-roast-nike- after-zion-williamson-goes-down/news-story/d382f31ca145e5e61b6ff1071a704328)

</comment><comment><USER3> "My left shoe won't even reboot."

This just cracked me up. I didn't think we'd be here so soon.

</comment><comment><USER4> A pretty big single point of failure and no fallback</comment>


WhatsApp puts new limits on the forwarding of viral messages - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/7/21211371/whatsapp-message-forwarding-limits-misinformation-coronavirus-india <comment><USER2> Tech companies having so much power over whose speech goes viral and whose doesn't is not good. They are acting as publishers and not platforms.</comment>


Labor Shortage Persists in Some Fields  - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704376104576122581603676882.html <comment><USER2> I would have to agree with the summation of the article and also say that it is corporate Americas own fault for the situation. The sniper like focus on short term market gains has corporations cutting at the first sign of trouble it is no wonder that the talent is now charging rates to reflect this reality and scarcity.

</comment><comment><USER3> They were doing so well, and then in the penultimate sentence they mess it up by inevitably confusing Java with JavaScript.

<comment><USER2> I don't think it was a mistake, JavaScript is a very hot skill right now. Most serious (not just designer with slight JavaScript skills) JavaScript devs are making 20-30% more than their Java counterpart.

I do Objective-C, Java, and JavaScript freelancing, right now, I am booked solid with all JavaScript work. I can charge double, for JavaScript, the best rates I can get for Java.</comment></comment>