Vitamin D Insufficiency is Prevalent in Severe Covid-19 - <AUTHOR> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1 <comment><USER2> Interesting thing... Vitamin D is one of those things that, when vitamins come up on HN, you will often hear the refrain that "it's the one vitamin that large numbers of people are actually deficient in and ought to supplement."

I've heard that many times over the years and I have taken a Vitamin D supplement on and off (more off than on) over the years.

When this COVID-19 thing first hit, I had a physical scheduled (by chance) just about the same time, and I'd heard about this Vitamin D / COVID-19 connection, so when I went in for my physical, I asked my doctor to order a Vitamin D test as part of my bloodwork.

As it turns out, I was indeed _very_ deficient in Vitamin D. I started taking 4000 IU a day and it's had a noticeable impact on my overall sense of wellbeing. It _could_ , of course, be placebo effect even so. And I have no particular reason to think that it will make any difference one way or the other in terms of me getting COVID-19. But I thought it was worth pointing out one more anecdote that suggests that the old "Vitamin D is worth supplementing" refrain might just be true.

If you're in doubt, and it's an option, do what I did... just ask your doctor to run a Vitamin D test next time you go in for a checkup / physical.

<comment><USER3> Does anyone know of a rule of thumb for how much time spent in direct sunlight is equivalent to a Vitamin D supplement? Is an hour per day (on average) sufficient?

<comment><USER4> I read Michael Holick's book (can't find it at the moment) he was the guy who discovered the circulating form of vitamin D.. IIRC you get vitamin D from the sun in rather large quantities. Just 15 minutes per day with only your face and hands exposed with the sun up at 45 degrees or more will be enough. I'm sure my data is not accurate, but it's in the ballpark. He has tables that depend on how dark your skin is and what latitude you live at.

<comment><USER5> Does one need exposure to direct sunlight, or sunlight coming via glass windows works?

<comment><USER6> Glass windows block the part of the UV spectrum that is needed to make Vit D.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/well/live/does- sunlight-t...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/well/live/does-sunlight- through-glass-provide-vitamin-d.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It seems that the authors misunderstood the Boston study they are citing:

> In a Boston homeless shelter, 100% of 147 COVID-19 positive subjects were > asymptomatic [3].

That study actually excluded N=15 symptomatic people:

> The original cases (N=15) were identified sequentially over a 5-day period, > and each was expeditiously removed from the shelter population at the time > of symptom recognition. These individuals predated the implementation of > universal testing procedures and are excluded from this study.

So, it's rather unsurprising that 100% of the remaining people were asymptomatic.

<comment><USER8> 90% asymptomatic cases isn't surprising?

<comment><USER9> Yes it has been known for a while (a while in covid terms) that a larg number has no symptoms.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This is a very weak study because it is retrospective: they just looked at existing medical records. And they only found 20 COVID patients that had vitamin D levels recorded. But the finding is compelling enough that we should demand better studies.

Actually there already is a better study where they actually tested vitamin D levels of many COVID patients [1]. It found vitamin D was strongly associated with less severe outcomes:

> Only 26% of the cases had 25(OH)D in the normal range, and virtually all of > them (86%) had a mild outcome. ... Just over a third (38%) had 25(OH)D in > the insufficient range, and only one of them (1.3%) had a mild outcome. ... > Just over a third (36%) had 25(OH)D in the deficient range, and their > distribution was pushed further toward severe and critical outcomes. Only > one patient (1.4%) had a mild outcome, while 26% had an ordinary outcome, > 40% had a severe outcome, and 33% had a critical outcome.

Now we should demand a controlled trial where they actually give a vitamin D intervention: this would provide causal evidence. However, avoiding vitamin D deficiency is already very well studied and has so many benefits that I think it is worth everyone's time and effort to do so.

Many people are advising high levels of vitamin D supplementation. However, there is reason to not overdo it on vitamin D supplementation and take just 1700 IU/day (or to just get sunshine) [2]. Of course, getting your vitamin D levels tested (with the help of by a doctor) is the safe way to go about this.

[1] [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484)

[2] [https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/covid-19/update-on- vitamin-d-...](https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/covid-19/update-on-vitamin-d- and-covid-19-using-the-first-observational-study-released)

</comment><comment><USER11> this doesnt pass the correlation vs causation smell test for me.

i suspect VID correlates well with COVID comorbidities, like a sedentary lifestyle, hypertension, and weight problems. the opposite is also probably true, that people with good vit D levels correlate with healthier lifestyles and fewer comorbidities.

<comment><USER12> This systematic meta-analysis paper[1] may be more convincing. The popular youtube COVID-commentating Dr. John Campbell did a review of it about a month ago[2] and has some good comments on the meaningful statistical power and experiment design.

The overall takeaway is this: in people with Vitamin D deficiency (which is very, very common), continuous daily supplementation can lead to up to a 70% reduction in contracted viral respiratory infections. It has a smaller effect the less deficient you are, and is not associated with any adverse effects.

1 - [https://www.bmj.com/content/356/bmj.i6583](https://www.bmj.com/content/356/bmj.i6583) 2 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5yVGmfivAk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5yVGmfivAk)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I find this compelling:

> _Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI_ [Vitamin D > Insufficiency]

Since mid-March I've been trying to keep track of Vitamin D/Sunlight suggestions and papers here: [https://simonsarris.com/sunlight](https://simonsarris.com/sunlight)

<comment><USER13> But if someone is already in ICU doesn't it imply they have been on bed for a while and not able to generate vitamin D?

<comment><USER14> _Breaking: 100% of ICU patients haven 't seen the sun in days_

It just doesn't have the same ring to it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Relevant: vitamin D may actually be a marker of sunlight/UV deficiency (and a deficiency of other beneficial light-produced artifacts):

[https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun- exposure...](https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure- skin-cancer-science)

<comment><USER16> Yes, though older folks can't produce it as well even if they get enough sun. Latitude is another big factor.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> PSA: The darker your skin is, the more Vitamin D you need, either from sunlight or food/supplements.

Pale skin is an evolutionary adaptation to harvest more sunlight to convert to Vitamin D, from when humanity expanded to less sunny areas from Africa.

I'm a little shocked that doctors don't seem to tell black people this. My "survey" is probably only 5 people, but still, people need to know.

<comment><USER18> In recent years there's been some question about whether there is a link between autism and Vitamin D deficiency in some African immigrants. Minnesota has a large population of Somali immigrants (ISTR the largest population outside Somalia itself) and in that community, autism has been nicknamed the "Minnesota disease" because of how prevalent it has become in children of immigrants.

[https://www.minnpost.com/politics- policy/2008/07/mysterious-...](https://www.minnpost.com/politics- policy/2008/07/mysterious-connection-autism-and-minneapolis-somali-children/)

It's an old article, but I haven't been able to find anything newer that isn't based on the same study in 2008.

A similar "outbreak" was noted in Sweden.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> > In an Institutional Review Board approved study performed at a single, > tertiary care academic medical center, the medical records of COVID-19 > patients were retrospectively reviewed. Subjects were included for whom > serum 25-hydroxycholecalcifoerol (25OHD) levels were determined. > COVID-19-relevant data were compiled and analyzed. We determined the > frequency of VDI among COVID-19 patients to evaluate the likelihood of a > VDI-COVID-19 relationship. Results: Twenty COVID-19 patients with serum > 25OHD levels were identified; 65.0% required ICU admission.The VDI > prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. > Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI.

Does this mean they have checked 20 people, 13 (65%) of them were severe and all in the below-75 subset of these 13 people were deficient in vitamin D? Doesn't seem credible to me, I'd prefer some hundreds of people from completely different parts of the country.

By the way, isn't almost everybody deficient in vitamin D anyway? (see doi:10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838)

<comment><USER20> But they didn't even check the Vitamin D levels. They only checked patients that had Vitamin D levels checked by physicians. So presumably this was a different population that was more sick by definition, because their physicans were checking them for Vitamin D deficiency. There aren't many good inpatient indications for checking Vitamin D. It's check for not good reasons sometimes, but most likely these patients were being followed by an outpatient doctor who was looking for something to explain some symptom, test result or problem that they were having.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Most of us are Vitamin D deficient. We do not spend enough time in direct sunlight for an hour with all our limbs exposed.

I've been taking 5000 IU for last 10 years to maintain ~55 ng/mL after finding out I was dangerously low at 12 ng/mL. And I used to live in Australia, the land of constant sunshine.

I avoid listening to the FDA recommended dose which has historically been increasing every few years. Just get your blood work done and supplement to maintain around ~ 55 ng/mL. That's better than listening to generic advice.

Btw. This pissed me off when BlueShield few years ago stopped covering Vitamin D blood tests because of this nonsense:

Most People Don't Need Vitamin D Testing [https://www.bcbs.com/news/press- releases/most-people-dont-ne...](https://www.bcbs.com/news/press- releases/most-people-dont-need-vitamin-d-testing)

"The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force recently found the current medical evidence insufficient to assess the balance of benefits and harms of screening for vitamin D deficiency in asymptomatic adults."

"The American Society of Clinical Pathology contributed the following recommendation to Choosing Wisely®, "Many people have low levels of vitamin D, but few have seriously low levels. Most of us don't need a vitamin D test. We just need to make simple changes so we get enough vitamin D.""

</comment><comment><USER22>
        20 Patients in Study with COV19
          * 65% of them went to ICU (13 patients)
          * 35% of them did not (7 patients)

        Of the 13 Patients in the ICU 84.6% (11 patients) had VDI
        Of the 7 Patients not in ICU 57.4% (4 Patients) had VDI

Thin gruel indeed. But all they are saying is that it's perhaps worth doing a real study. That's fair.

</comment><comment><USER23> They've also been sitting inside a hospital for who knows how long. They cite another paper as saying ICU prevalence is 30-40%, but that's an entirely different patient population. There is no control

</comment><comment><USER24> If you get the test make sure it is the right one! 25 (OH) stays in the blood longer, so this is the more accurate test. (half life of 3 weeks in your blood). Many experts recommend a level of at least 30 ng/ml ... some actually suggest that 50 ng/ml!

The scale on the test results is: Interpretive Data: Deficiency: <10 ng/mL Insufficiency: 10 to 30 ng/mL Sufficiency: 30 to 100 ng/mL Toxicity: >100 ng/mL

"The majority of 25-OH vitamin D (25-D) in the circulation is derived from the conversion of 7-dehydrocholesterol in the skin that is irradiated with ultraviolet radiation in the UVB range (wavelength 290 nm to 315 nm).1-5 The extent of vitamin D formation is not tightly controlled and depends primarily on the duration and intensity of the UV irradiation. Levels produced typically reach a plateau within 30 minutes of exposure." [1]

"Vitamin D insufficiency is more prevalent among African Americans (blacks) than other Americans and, in North America, most young, healthy blacks do not achieve optimal 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] concentrations at any time of year." [2]

[1]: [https://www.labcorp.com/test- menu/36721/vitamin-d-25-hydroxy...](https://www.labcorp.com/test- menu/36721/vitamin-d-25-hydroxy#) [2]: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16549493](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16549493)

<comment><USER25> I think 80 is a better level. People living in Spain and similar regions, who work outside most of the year, have levels up to 220 and they have no problems with it. You should not pursue that value via supplements. Taking 2000IU or 4000IU daily is healthy, but go much higher for longer periods and you end up with calcification of your bones. That's not reversible, and it might kill you in the end.

<comment><USER24> I posted the correct test and got down voted. The other Vitamin D test is not accurate. If you ask for the test from your doctor, he has to specify the one I linked. You can decide for yourself what level you want to target. The other test is not accurate so you can't manage your levels...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I had a doctor tell me he sees women in burkas with higher levels of vitamin D than me. IIRC it was like 5. Have taken 5000iu daily since :(

</comment><comment><USER27> True story: my mom has plaque psoriasis and I was starting to develop symptoms as well (the condition seems to be heritable). I saw a dermatologist about it, and she prescribed a particular cream as well as doing 15 mins of UV therapy every day on the affected areas (knees and elbows were the worst). I wasn't the best at following medical advice at the time, but the cream helped some.

About a year and a half ago, I started taking vitamin D after my doctor told me I was slightly deficient. Within two months, there was no indication of plaques on my knees or elbows, and the little nodules that would appear on my palmar surfaces on my hands and feet became much less frequent. I am convinced that supplementing vitamin D was much more effective than any cream, and definitely less obnoxious than holding my knees and elbows to the sun at an open window on a sunny day. When I get outside frequently, I notice that basically all of my symptoms go away.

Long story short, take your vitamin D! Consult a doctor and don't take too much, since it's fat soluble and can build up to toxic levels in your system; also, since it is fat soluble, make sure your diet has enough good fats to help absorb it (guacamole and olive oil are two of my favorite supplementary foods with vitamin D).

<comment><USER28> I've got great results on using vitamin D for cluster headaches. [https://n.neurology.org/content/82/10_Supplement/P1.256](https://n.neurology.org/content/82/10_Supplement/P1.256)

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Does make me wonder how much of this is VDI and how much of this is the general population having VDI.

<comment><AUTHOR> There are other papers that argue similar. On April 20, _Alimentary Pharmacology and Therapeutics: low population mortality from COVID‐19 in countries south of latitude 35 degrees North supports vitamin D as a factor determining severity_

[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/apt.15777](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/apt.15777)

It also notes:

> It could be argued that the virus spread later to the Southern Hemisphere > and that countries there are simply behind those in the Northern Hemisphere > but as time goes by this argument looks increasingly weak.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I think it's worth pointing out the conclusion in their abstract and what the authors are trying to accomplish: "...we suggest that prospective, randomized controlled studies of VDI in COVID-19 patients are warranted."

<comment><USER31> The alt-text of xkcd 552 comes to mind: "Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'."

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I don't doubt this at all.

But at the same time, isn't it suspected that vitamin D insufficiency is linked with a worse immune system generally?

(Anecdotally it made a big difference for me not getting winter colds ever since my doctor pointed out I had a significant wintertime deficiency and I started supplementing.)

In other words, there's unlikely to be any unique link between vitamin D and COVID-19. That this just falls in the wide bucket of "unhealthier people are more affected by COVID-19", similar to obesity.

</comment><comment><USER31> Interesting.

Okay, let's play with this. Let us extrapolate from the strong correlation found by this retrospective review, and postulate that Vitamin D Insufficiency (VDI) is indeed a major contributing factor in either the severity of a COVID-19 infection, or the chances of contracting it. (I am not claiming this is indeed true, correlation != causation, but I think strong correlations are certainly worth looking at and playing with).

It is my observation that in my local area, the shelter-in-place order has resulted in more people spending more of their time indoors and not going outside as much. The park in my neighborhood is empty. I see less people on the bike trails visible from the roads I take to the grocery store. A nature park 20 minutes from my house, the kind that people go to to get out of the city and the hell away from other people, is closed with COVID-19 as the justification and scary signs threatening fines posted at all the entrances. And so on.

With less people getting outside, and less often, that means more people are getting less sun exposure, and less vitamin D. Assuming that their diets aren't changing to make up for that, that means more people with VDI, and those already with VDI getting worse. As such, if VDI will make it easier to catch COVID, or make the symptoms worse once caught, I can't help but wonder if these shelter-in-place orders intended to slow the spread won't end up shooting us in the foot, setting us up for a 2nd wave more brutal than had people been encouraged and incentivized to get outside more.

I really hope I'm wrong about that.

<comment><USER33> Vitamin D is the only vitamin that the UK's NHS recommends most people take - usually they recommend during winter. With the Covid lockdown they have extended the advice to say keep taking it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Linus Pauling really messed this one up. He went for the C but really wanted the D.

</comment><comment><USER35> Lots of people have been claiming that the currently-summer countries haven't gotten as hard hit. Their reasoning has been that the extra UV is killing the virus.

I wonder if they were correct, but for the wrong reasons. Vitamin D in humans primarily comes from a chemical reaction with sunlight in the skin. Maybe there's an indirect effect there that explains what they were seeing?

<comment><USER36> Vitamin D could also be a factor in the general, well-established trend of cold and flu being more prevalent in the winter.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I've been sick for almost ten years and had low vitamin D levels. Last two years I've finally found some treatments that work for me, now that I'm healthier my vitamin D level has gone up to about 40 even though I rarely go outside and don't supplement. It's typically 5 without supplementation.

Previously, I tried supplementing with 10,000IU daily, didn't help me feel any better and took a long time to get my levels up. Doctor even told me to lie outside in a bikini every day in the sun and not to burn myself. My doc's theory is that some process in sick people uses up their vitamin D and calcium, and that's what needs to be stopped. He says he has seen patients with Vitamin D deficiency where they are cured with supplementation and/or sun, but it's not very common. It's cheap, easy, and harmless enough though to try before moving on to other things.

</comment><comment><USER38> Nobody really knows what the "normal" level of Vit D is. My baseline level is lower than that of my white-skinned father and higher than that of my darker- skinned mother. Does he have too much? Certainly we all live at a latitude higher than where her ancestors lived and lower than where his did. Which of us has a "normal" level?

Outside extreme deficiencies though, I'm not sure that the band isn't relatively large. _But_ it is documented that D supplements for people with low levels of D does seem to reduce the incidence of pulmonary infections in general. There was a good paper on the subject published last December in Lancet (IIRC — i failed to save it in Zotero). So even before COVID-19 became a concern I upped my daily dose.

</comment><comment><USER39> Lots (most) people of colour are below their threshold of "VDI" (vitamin D insufficiency) and perfectly healthy.

The fact that the study doesn't talk about base rates for ethnicities is pretty "striking" (to use a word they breathlessly, and wrongly, use).

<comment><USER40> I would argue that they are _not_ perfectly healthy. Non-severe Vitamin D deficiency has no acute effects, but lifetime risk for developing severe illness does go up.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Does anyone else see the irony of herding people off beaches to protect them from covid-19?

<comment><USER42> When you have Karen's instead of real leaders in charge....

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> There is an app I've been using to track my Vitamin D for a few years now: [http://dminder.ontometrics.com](http://dminder.ontometrics.com)

(Not affiliated with the app, just happy with it.) It tells you the sun angle, peak hour of the day, and maximum time you should be in that day's sun based on your skin type, to avoid getting burnt while still getting enough D.

Be careful though - you might get a little OCD about Vitamin D tracking with this app. I did, and mainly use it now for checking how long it is safe to stay outdoors. (Instead of full blown tracking.)

<comment><USER44> This app seems amazing! Can't figure it out, does it send me a push notification of when to sunbath?

<comment><USER43> Yes, if you want it to. Looking at my notifications screen in the app, it can notify about "D Window Events", and you can even specify the minimum angle of interest.

It can also notify upon solar noon, sunrise and sunset (not the same as a D window of opportunity), and give a daily supplement reminder. Each of these is individually configurable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> open-source-ux Interesting...in the UK, the NHS (National Health Service) recommendation is for adults to take a 10mcg (micrograms) vitamin D supplement daily (10mcg = 400IU). This advice was issued in 2016 after a science advisory body (Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition) published a 300 page report of the evidence on vitamin D and health. [1][2]

The NHS also say more recently in response to the lockdown [3]:

 _Consider taking 10 micrograms of vitamin D a day to keep your bones and muscles healthy.

This is because you may not be getting enough vitamin D from sunlight if you're indoors most of the day.

There have been some news reports about vitamin D reducing the risk of coronavirus. However, there is no evidence that this is the case.

Do not buy more vitamin D than you need._

They also warn:

 _Taking too many vitamin D supplements over a long period of time can cause too much calcium to build up in the body (hypercalcaemia). This can weaken the bones and damage the kidneys and the heart.

If you choose to take vitamin D supplements, 10 micrograms a day will be enough for most people.

Do not take more than 100 micrograms of vitamin D a day as it could be harmful. This applies to adults, including pregnant and breastfeeding women and the elderly, and children aged 11 to 17 years._

[1] Vitamin D and Health [PDF] [https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...](https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/537616/SACN_Vitamin_D_and_Health_report.pdf)

[2] The new guidelines on vitamin D – what you need to know: [https://www.nhs.uk/news/food-and-diet/the-new-guidelines- on-...](https://www.nhs.uk/news/food-and-diet/the-new-guidelines-on-vitamin-d- what-you-need-to-know/)

[3] Vitamin D: [https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and- minerals/vitamin-...](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and- minerals/vitamin-d/)

</comment><comment><USER45> From a few days ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23086211](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23086211)

There is strong evidence that Vitamin D does nothing. Large scale studies of vitamin D supplements show no benefit.

The article above argues that it is actually sun exposure that brings health benefits, and that vitamin D is just a byproduct. This makes sense. If vitamin D levels are strongly correlated with good health, it doesn't mean that it causes it. There might be some third factor.

</comment><comment><USER46> Question for those more knowledgeable: From the abstract it doesn't seem like they compared this group with other people in the ICU - could the lack of sun exposure for that population play a role? ICU patients with COVID-19 have likely gone from sheltering in place at home to experiencing symptoms that make them unlikely to venture outside to the hospital where they can't leave, all of which means less exposure to the sun. Is a few weeks of staying indoors enough to cause this?

</comment><comment><USER47> Note that some doctors are clueless and diagnose a deficiency of vitamin D based on just one metabolite. Test for both, and don't damage yourself with excessive supplementation.

<comment><USER48> It seems difficult to reach excess vitamin D levels though. From [1]: "Taking 60,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D for several months has been shown to cause toxicity. This level is many times higher than the U.S. Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for most adults of 600 IU of vitamin D a day."

5000-7000 IU per day is probably a safe amount, despite the official recommended daily intake being 600 IU.

[1]: [https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition- and-h...](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy- eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108)

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> So what's the ideal amount of sun exposure to produce enough for a white guy at 45 north? Is there anywhere reputable that calculates this kind of thing?

<comment><USER25> You can read up on it in the book by Dr Holick. He recommends 4000IU daily, but if you're afraid that's too much, go with 2000IU/day. I take 4000IU daily since several years. Get a test before you start, so you have a base value. Test again after a month or two maybe three, and see what the change is.

With sun exposure, the book recommends the following. Go sit in the sun on a sunny day, until you get a mild rose burn. How long does that take? Divide that time over a week, and you're safe. This rose-burn time depends on the time of year, how high is the sun in the skye? How clear is the skye? What is the time of the day? So this value changes a lot for people in norther Europe, compared to people living in Africa.

<comment><USER50> > Get a test before you start, so you have a base value. Test again after a > month or two maybe three, and see what the change is.

This is sound advice, but isn't there a chicken and egg problem right now? We're in a significant part of the pandemic, which I would imagine (assumption) that "routine" tests such as that may not be easy to come by. While at the same time there is notable evidence that VDI is prevalent in severe cases. By the time you get an answer to know the base line, it seems like it would be largely too late to make a possible difference in the short term?

Is there a "safe" amount you could increase it without knowing your base line?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Its not clear they compared to any control group?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's not a study, you can't have a control group in a retrospective review, you can only sort data from the data set. You can complain about the small N, though.

> Among ICU subjects, 11 (84.6%) had VDI, vs. 4 (57.1%) of floor subjects. > Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI (n=11; Table > 2).

<comment><USER51> I guess I was really wondering about confounding variables. That quoted line makes it clear: 100% is pretty damning.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> So VDI is prevalent in the severe disease, but it's also prevalant in the general population.

Numbers in the study are very low and no significant correlation was found.

Lots of interesting postulation in the discussion. Could be worth looking at in a larger study.

Now cue the press stories, and panic buying...

</comment><comment><USER53> Could this explain why the pandemic seems to be worse in NY compared to California and Florida?

<comment><USER54> I think that's about public transit vs automobile usage

<comment><USER53> SF public transit usage is high. Also, the burrow hit hardest in NY is Staten Island, which is very car heavy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> Is there any evidence multivitamins are _harmful_ (not just that there's no proof they help improve health?)

It's because of stuff like this I take one. Maybe I'm wasting money, but absent a harm I feel it's worth it to hedge my bets.

<comment><USER56> Certain vitamins and minerals. Fat soluble vitamins can build up to the point of causing problems. Excess of iron and magnesium may have negative effect AFAIK.

<comment><USER57> For most people, excess magnesium levels would be pretty hard to reach. Unless you count loose stools as harmful, which some forms of magnesium supplements can cause.

Combining calcium and vitamin D can be seriously problematic. And high doses of calcium in general can make you more likely to end up with kidney stones -- those are not fun to pass!

Some supplements can even compete with each other for absorption (calcium & magnesium come to mind), so taking them together in a multivitamin is probably not the way to go.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> Interesting conclusions, but small sample size: N=20.

Vitamin D at normal doses is quite safe, though, so I'll be supplementing my intake now even if broader long-term study shows this to be ineffective for C19.

</comment><comment><USER59> Advice: Get some sun exposure and better food instead of supplements.

</comment><comment><USER60> i loaded up on a bottle of costco vitamins and d3 supplement before we went on lockdown. There seems to be something in the multivitamins that i'm allergic to in high quantities, i.e. after taking them for 3-4 days straight I'll start getting hives. I reduced consumption to 1 mv tablet every 3 days and no problems so far. I'll probably increase d3 intake to 1 2000iu tablet per day and see how it goes.

<comment><USER61> Weird that it took a few days for the allergy to kick in. Do you get hives from other stuff?

I had a bad allergic reaction recently to wine (which was never a problem before), that started as bad hives and progressed to me nearly fainting. Doctor tested me as positive for a grape allergy, but negative to the shellfish allergy that caused hives as a kid.

Anyhow, all of that is to say that the doctor prescribed me an epipen, because apparently it's possible to experience anaphalaxis without having breathing issues. And full-body hives is one sign of that. The near-fainting I experienced was likely due to low-blood pressure, which is another symptom. So just be careful. I had always thought hives weren't a big deal (other than being extremely annoying), but I'm definitely going to take them more seriously from here on out.

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> Maybe Vitamin D deficiency in folks living in the US (also ^ ) contributed to the high number of cases/deaths in the US.

^ Not discounting other factors

</comment><comment><USER63> Will walking for 45 mins in morning help? Do we really need to buy pills and pay to pharma companies?

</comment><comment><USER64> Unfortunately this study shows correlation but not causation. Hopefully more studies are under way.

</comment><comment><USER65> We all stayed indoors for months during to lockdown and now we might lacking Vitamin D.

</comment><comment><USER66> The brilliant authorities around the world have made it illegal to go to parks. In some places, it is illegal to be outside, in front of your own house.

All this of course reduces vitamin D levels.

</comment><comment><USER67> It means you should eat a lot if you are sick..

</comment><comment><USER68> Plus staying indoors isn't helping either

</comment><comment><USER69> That study studied 20 people.

</comment><comment><USER70> fun fact: whale fat is highest in natural vitamin D, bio-availlable and all

</comment><comment><USER71> > Interesting thing... Vitamin D is one of those things that, when vitamins > come up on HN, you will often hear the refrain that "it's the one vitamin > that large numbers of people are actually deficient in and ought to > supplement."

Well, let me add to the narrative, as this was the concentration of my Undergrad studies. Vitamin D, and its analogues are not actually vitamins, they're steroid-hormones and behave as such; look at its molecular structure [1] and its synthesis in the presence of UV light (as this actually how you should be acquiring it).

Most people are deficient in Vitmanin D, the recommended dose of 600 IU are actually not sufficient as many studies, research lends credence to as those that induced viable therapies were often upwards of 4000-10000 IU. The IOM is to blame for this, and a heated debate amongst researchers.

I won't go into full detail on that, but Vitamin D is a critical precursor and reactant in many vital metabolic reactions, my personal concentration was in inducing apoptosis in certain cancer cells with calcitriol, EB 1089, CB 1093, and p53. My proposals were rejected for Independent Studies and I never undertook it in the lab, unfortunately.

> Unfortunately the daily recommended value was established erroneously and > should be much higher. Many research papers mention this...

Exactly. My bible was a Vitamin D book with 100+ chapters detailing researchers that published papers detailing how their models were showing that such low IU of Vitmain D were insufficient, going against the IOM's RDL.

If any of you are so inclined the 2nd Volume of Vitamin D by Feldman has been released [2], its expensive but still way less than what the last copies of vol 1 were that I paid back then.

> Nobody makes any money if it turns out to be a good treatment, so nobody > will fund the research

You have no idea the amount of dismay I felt when I realized this was the case when I was in school; though I would argue they've fund(ed) it in the past, the problem is their is no way to place IP on Vitamin D itself and therefore Big Pharma's business model doesn't apply, so it can show favourable results but it will be killed because their is nothing to bring to Market as an exclusive seller like they do for drugs. Many therapies could have been explored since H1N1, 2009, but it falls on deaf ears and it takes pandemics like these to shake people into delving into Public Health more seriously.

I hope changes are made by motivated students and researchers, ideally outside of Universities because I know I no longer have the patience or drive to try any more.

1: [https://external- content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...](https://external- content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2FjFnVM.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

2: [https://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-Disease-Therapeutics-David- Fe...](https://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-Disease-Therapeutics-David-Feldman- ebook/dp/B078CQTBV1/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=vitamin+D&qid=1588203601&s=books&sr=1-3)

<comment><USER72> So for all of us biochemistry muggles, what should we be taking and how much?

I just want to pip install vitamin-d and be on my way.

<comment><USER71> What's a muggle?

Honestly, if you live in CA like most here just sun bathe for 15-20 mins daily on exposed skin, your body actually has a 'built-in' start-stop system that will actually stop producing vitamin D innately due to a feedback loop. You need to stop before your skin becomes irritated and begins to burn, obviously, to avoid damage. 17 mins for me is the sweet spot for ideal blood serum levels.

> what should we be taking and how much?

If taken as a dietary supplement that is way beyond me, as I'm not a physician and its irresponsible to give medical advice as its specifically related to you and your health.

But someone even mentioned the 10000 IU doses that can be administered in severe cases with little to no harm and that's worth noting in terms of toxicity risk.

Personally, I moved to CO from the coastal part of CA partly because of the elevation difference and intensity of Sun in the Fall and Winter months to mitigate my Vitamin D level decreasing and how it affects my health; so my personal optimized blood serum wouldn't be compatible to your own, so even that wouldn't work.

> I just want to pip install vitamin-d and be on my way.

Biohacker hat on: Get some Vitmain D pills and start with taking 1000 IU (as a baseline) and increase the dosage incrementally on a weekly basis while documenting your mood, and overall health and decide for yourself. You get several types of endorphins from it, so when I started to find my effective doses I noticed it alleviated my irritability and frequent headaches.

<comment><USER73> Muggle is a term from Harry Potter meaning non-wizard.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> kalium-xyz Unhealthy people are unhealthy

</comment><comment><USER74> Anecdotelly, in Europe the countries worst hit by the virus have the most strict confinement: Italy, Spain and France.

Makes you wonder if there is a correlation to Vitamin D insufficiency due to lack of sun light.

<comment><USER75> You've got the causality the wrong way round

<comment><USER76> Yeah, and Italy, Spain, and France are some of the sunnier countries in Europe (compared to Germany, UK, Belgium, Scandinavia, etc). If anything I would expect vitamin D deficiency to be less common there.

<comment><USER46> Don't forget Ecuador which is literally on the equator and experiencing a major outbreak.

<comment><USER75> It's the wet season in Ecuador

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> Beaches closed. Parks closed. Hikes closed. Stay inside and deprive the rest of your vitamin D.

<comment><USER78> It really is too bad that all our front doors lead directly to beaches, parks and hikes. How many people could have been saved if we had gardens, roofs and streets?</comment></comment>


How Duterte Used Facebook to Fuel the Philippine Drug War - <AUTHOR> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/daveyalba/facebook-philippines-dutertes-drug-war <comment><USER2> An article about Facebook talked about an internal culture that was zealous about the idea of connecting all humans.

Who asked for that? Think about it for your personal life. Do you want every other human to have access to your eyeballs, even just briefly or by accident?

And on a societal level, how would that _not_ result in conflict and manipulation? To paraphrase a popular quote, it's a lot more work to fix misinformation than it is to misinform people in the first place.</comment>


16-year-old British girl earns £48,000 helping Chinese people name their babies - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/37255033/a-16-year-old-british-girl-earns-48000-helping-chinese-people-name-their-babies <comment><USER2> Interesting points to think about:

\- It's just a wordpress website. You don't need nothing fancy to be successful.

\- Unknown niche market instead of 'going with the flow'.

\- A 16 year old is capable of making a 'good enough' algorithm for a new market.

\- Her (amateur?) pricing strategy/conversion funnel seems more balanced than some made by professionals.

<comment><USER3> > It's just a wordpress website. You don't need nothing fancy to be > successful.

I've observed similar products myself, often ones that are more successful versions of my own creations. I've seen stuff built with spaghetti PHP code, yet it was marketed well and more people were paying money to use it than my own. Yet when I looked at it, the first thing I saw was an SQL injection vulnerability that would allow me to drop the entire database.

It makes me wonder though, if instead of looking at entrepreneurship from the software development side of things, maybe instead I should be trying to build a marketing and advertising agency that builds software. These types of companies seem to make more money than I do.

Yet at the same time, in the marketing companies that come to my mind, the weaknesses in their products tend to be sustainability. I think overtime customers are going to become frustrated with their lack of good support and ability to maintain code and add new features.

Just my thoughts when reflecting on all of this. :)

<comment><USER4> As an engineer I find it an appalling when you realize that quality engineering means nothing in terms of financial success. I used to think that if you build a quality product the users will pick it up and it will become successful when in fact it couldn't be further away from reality.

Thus, bugs and quality are secondary. Why spend $ on engineering and fixing bugs when you can spend that on marketing for much better ROI.

<comment><USER5> I encourage you to stop thinking about the world in binary terms. how much engineering matters for financial success is a continuous function of several parameters. It's never about either not mattering at all or mattering 100%

<comment><USER6> I agree, and to carry it a little further: the essence of engineering is good tradeoffs (can I build an adequate bridge for the needed cost? If I can carry more cargo in this plane, can I make the fuel requirement grow linearly or better? zip we cut the range 10% we can cut the op ex 20% -- will that still work? Do I really need to spec precision resistors or can I compensate somewhere else?

The trade off skills apply outside the engineering domain as well.

<comment><USER7> Except with engineering you're often dealing with non-monetary tradeoffs. The plane serves a valuable purpose _outside_ of making someone some money. The quality work/better marketing tradeoff is all about making someone money by providing negative real-world value to others.

<comment><USER6> You're making a false dichotomy.

Engineering tradeoffs are very much about costs. I could (well once upon a time I could :-) design a bridge that's stable up to a (not very) nearby atomic blast; more stable than the bedrock it's built on. But that would require an unnecessary level of resources (unless atomic resistance is in fact a design requirement). I could design the most super-awesome web site that scales to 40 billion unique visitors...but it's _unlikely_ to be needed (though if some of the uniques are robotic, perhaps it is). Simply choosing an alloy that's simpler to work with the tools on hand is a rescue tradeoff, and those resources are time and money.

Likewise, the plane (I assume you mean airplane) has only one valuable purpose (transport people or goods that someone wants transported) and that is denominated in money. Make it cheaper and more people can fly, or pay less for their gadgets or fresh shellfish.

It's incredibly naive to to say that marketing is some zero-sum game. If you have an amazing bandage that is cheap and saves lives you still have to get the word out.

<comment><USER7> > _If you have an amazing bandage that is cheap and saves lives you still have > to get the word out._

The core topic in this subthread is focusing work on marketing the bandage instead of making it cheaper/save more lives, because marketing has much better ROI than actually providing value to people.

And the word can get out fine by itself, actually. The word of mouth is a pretty effective thing - and a lot of marketing is trying to game it, getting increased profits by destroying its usefulness.

<comment><USER8> Here's an example with the metaphor where marketing is _not_ zero-sum:

1) Person A makes a crappy bandage (Y units of quality) with X units of budget and markets with 9X units of budget

2) Person B makes a decent bandage (5Y units of quality) with 5X units of budget.

If person B were to also market the bandage with 5X units of budget, they will take a larger fraction of person A's market share than if they don't, thus providing more value to people. Yes you can argue that if person A didn't exist, then they wouldn't need to spend this money and the bandage could be cheaper, but this is clearly an example where adding marginal marketing can be a net benefit to society.

<comment><USER7> Yes, I agree that adding a marginal marketing can be a net benefit to society. But the problem is, in the real world, the person A wins - marketing has much better ROI than investing in quality. I argue against the marketing precisely because of its power to paper over the problems with the actual good/service.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> My wife is Chinese and has told me many of the ridiculous English names people have. We've heard Cinderella before. My favorite that we've encountered was a young woman named Pancake.

It's not just a problem of limited access to information, but also limited knowledge of what qualifies as a good English name. All of the people we've encountered were from Hong Kong, which has no Great Firewall to contend with. We've also seen many people using names that haven't been popular in the West in a long time, like Eugene or Doris.

<comment><USER10> I have friends named Dolphin, Fish and Shadow and they know perfectly well that their names are funny. I'm certain that Pancake does too. Having an English name is a bit unreal for them just as it would be for you and me getting a Chinese name, so why not get a funny one?

Also, naming in another language is difficult. Microsoft knows that, as "Bing" means disease in mandarin.

<comment><USER11> "Bing" as it is commonly pronounced in English doesn't exist in the Chinese language. Words with the pinyin 'bing' does, but saying it means 'disease' in mandarin is somewhat disingenuous, because it could refer to any of the four inflection and the very large number of words under each of those, like the word for ice, soldier, sideburns, guests, etc.

<comment><USER12> Bing's pronunciation in English is exactly the downward inflection used for 病

<comment><USER13> Not quite:

\- B- in Chinese is unvoiced, whereas it's voiced in English

\- the -ing in Chinese and English are pronounced slightly differently

\- Bing in English is usually inflected somewhere between 1st and 4th tone -- 病, properly pronounced, has a much more noticeable downward pitch slide

It's fair to say though that if you say 'Bing' when you mean 病, a Mandarin speaker will probably understand you.

Source: am native English and Chinese speaker

<comment><USER12> It is close enough pronouncation wise. Downward inflection is stronger in 病.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> If only the full 'background' was mentioned:

[http://www.cotswoldlife.co.uk/people/celebrity- interviews/li...](http://www.cotswoldlife.co.uk/people/celebrity- interviews/lisa_maxwell_s_life_in_the_cotswolds_1_4122389)

<comment><USER15> Ok so her dad is Paul Jessup:

 _who owns the Great British Teddy Bear Company and Big Red Bus English, offering language tuition to children in China._

so not quite a rags to riches story, but she's still got a website that fills a need and is able to monetise. A lot more successful than many silicon valley start-ups :)

<comment><USER16> More successful by my standards (and yours, I guess), but not by the standards silicon valley uses. I assume lots of objectively stupid businesses are run by people who are capable of doing something profitable, but profitable isn't the goal.

<comment><USER17> In anywhere else where people don't throw billions into moonshots it is the goal. Nobody forces you to work on your small business all the time, you create it, you hire someone to do it, you collect money. If your only goal is to lose as much money as possible, as that means "pre-profit", then good luck.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The site is [http://specialname.cn](http://specialname.cn)

Judging by the amount of well written Chinese text on the page this girl is either a native speaker or she had help.

Nowhere does the page indicate the names are paid. However clicking though the flow takes us several seconds and requires us to agonise over five different qualities. By this time we are now sufficiently invested in this site. We are now so invested and curious we consider paying the 68 RMB price anchor. Luckily there is an ongoing "promotion" that allows you to buy your name for only 9 RMB, what a deal!

This is the work of a genius.

</comment><comment><USER18> I had a look at the website (specialname.cn for those interested), and one thing that stood out is that she's definitely trying to hide the fact that it was founded by a 16 year old girl.

Normally, I'd say there's nothing wrong with that and also absolutely no need to mention it, but in this case she's specifically misleading people who visit the site.

Scroll down to the bottom (or view the about-us page - [http://www.specialname.cn/about-us/](http://www.specialname.cn/about-us/)) and compare the picture there to picture in the bbc article. One of those pictures is not like the other.

The blurb is then even more misleading - saying she's been visiting China regularly for the last 12 years and is often asked by colleagues to give English names for Chinese babies.

Now, given her father's business, I'm sure it's quite likely that she's been visiting China for 12 years, but I'm pretty sure she didn't have many colleagues when she was 4 years old.

Mad props to her for setting up a site like this, and I can see the reasons for wanting to bend the truth with her background, but it just rankles a little to see this being done.

<comment><USER19> Why does that rankle you? People are biased and you have to work with that. This is no different than one person companies using the royal "we" in the website copy.

<comment><USER20> I think there's a difference between a solo freelancer saying "we" and said freelancer presenting a picture of some random people in a random office as "his team".

<comment><USER21> How have you established that they're random people?

<comment><USER20> In this specific case? Well, it's a stock photo: [https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-images- female-...](https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-images-female- mature-student-holding-her-tablet-posing-stairs-smiling-camera-image35781709)

<comment><USER21> Ah, I see, yeah that is pretty dishonest.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> >But Beau doesn't know which names are the most popular on her website, and she's "happy about that".

This could go hilariously wrong. Her algorithm attempts to match names with personality traits. Some personality traits will be more popular than others, therefore some names will be more popular. Depending on exactly how it's all weighted, some names may be heavily biased towards or against. Without feedback and adjustment to maintain a sensible distribution she could well end up naming every third baby the same thing. Without anyone ever noticing until the next census.

Which gives me an idea for a website! "namemybabyaliceorbob.com"

<comment><USER23> The names she's selling aren't used for official names, more like nicknames.

See [http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2009/04/the_na...](http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2009/04/the_names_du_xiao_hua_but_call_me_steve.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> A bit of reflection - If I were in the same situation as the girl was, I would have named the baby and left it there. Hmm.. No wonder how many opportunities I am missing every day.

</comment><comment><USER25> This is a fake marketing story. I guess her mother is the website owner, at least the website's about page suggests so in Chinese.

<comment><USER18> No, I think the about page is just trying to hide the fact it was started by a 16 year old.

The image is just a stock image: [http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-160492445/stock-photo- portra...](http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-160492445/stock-photo-portrait-of- a-smiling-mature-female-student-at-desk-against-bookshelves-in-the- library.html?src=fAN1L3wX9vKY63BAa-9O6g-1-14)

Yes, the text is also misleading, but again it seems more to hide the fact that she's 16. Her father has businesses in China so it's likely that she _has_ been visiting China for 12 years. I doubt she's been giving English names to Chinese babies for that long though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Now if I could just think of something to sell to the Chinese, and find a partner in China to help me set up hosting over there.

<comment><USER27> Go for it!

1\. You can find good translators on UpWork

2\. Use Alibaba Cloud (www.aliyun.com) to setup a server anywhere in China.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I'm confused, how did her website get around the restricted internet in China? The article mentions there are other similar baby naming websites, but China does not have access to them . What makes her site special?

<comment><USER29> GFoC does not block sites by default; it functions as a blacklist.

[http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/quickly-check-site-visible- grea...](http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/quickly-check-site-visible-great- firewall-china/)

You can check any site here: [http://www.greatfirewallofchina.org](http://www.greatfirewallofchina.org)

However, I could not find the website for "Special Name" to check; does it exist?

Edit: Address is [http://www.specialname.cn/;](http://www.specialname.cn/;) it was very hard to find on Google.

<comment><USER30> Its actually in the top of the op article

<comment><USER31> I don't see it there.

<comment><USER29> Oh, I see it now; ridiculous bold dark purple anchor style on bold text is impossible to notice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> The article makes out that the girl built and designed it herself. This is not the case, it's a slick, locally designed site ( Chinese language etc ) even the link at the bottom is for a parent company of some sort. It's a highly developed and tested site, this is no one person, overnight success.

</comment><comment><USER33> The big difficulty here is letting people know that the project even exists. Most people here could build it, but figuring out how to bring in customers is the hard part.

</comment><comment><USER33> It's kind of a problem. I knew a Chinese girl who chose the English name "Squirrel." When I told her it wasn't a real name, she didn't quite understand.

<comment><USER34> I dunno, that's definitely on the verge of working as a name. You can certainly imagine that as a nickname.

<comment><USER35> Yep - Douglas Squirrel ([http://douglassquirrel.com/](http://douglassquirrel.com/)) is a guy in London who does a lot of work with startups, and he is mostly known just as 'Squirrel'. Really cool guy, by the way, if you get the chance to talk to him at a meetup.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Two things I wonder about.

1\. does the money legally go to the girl or her parents/guardians (I guess a 16 y/o is still a minor), and how much of this is taxable?

2\. how exactly is the tonality established for the English names?

<comment><USER37> The minimum age to register a company in the UK is 16.

The minimum age for part-time work in the UK is 13, with exceptions for modelling and acting. Age 13-14, the most common job is delivering newspapers, since at this age there are big restrictions on working hours. At 15, it's more common to work in a small supermarket, but I think it's become a lot less common than 10 years ago. (Of course, there are unofficial jobs, like gardening and cleaning cars.)

If this girl pays herself the whole £48,000 as a salary, the tax would be £12,693.20 leaving £35,306.80. Under 16s don't pay National Insurance (healthcare + unemployment etc tax), they would take home £39,600.00 from the same salary. The first £11,000 of salary is tax free, regardless of age.

[https://listentotaxman.com/](https://listentotaxman.com/) will calculate this.

[https://www.gov.uk/child-employment/minimum-ages-children- ca...](https://www.gov.uk/child-employment/minimum-ages-children-can-work)

<comment><USER36> Thanks for a constructive reply.

<comment><USER37> In general, 16 is actually the more important age in the UK in practical terms.

At that point, one can move out from their parents, no longer attend school, have sex, marry, join the army, consent to your own medical treatment, and apply for a passport without your parents' consent.

Though it's generally not considered good life choices to be doing most of these this young.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> How is she accepting payments in china? Does AliPay have a good system for that? I'm more interested in how one sells into china easily from the outside. Does paypal work ?

<comment><USER39> She uses Alipay Cross Border [https://global.alipay.com/ospay/home.htm](https://global.alipay.com/ospay/home.htm) which converts every transaction to GBP and remits the value to a GBP bank account.

(Try going through to the payment page and you see the conversion to GBP happening.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> The concept of marketing to an international audience fascinates me. I head up a small web design + development agency in South Africa, and recently I've set my sights on finding international clients, specifically in the US. How do people generally go about this?

What kind of marketing went into this girl's business to do so well in a country that she doesn't even live in?

</comment><comment><USER41> I used to live in China and met some students with very unusual English names. My favourite of which was 'Finger'. When I asked him why he chose the name he answered 'I like Kurt Cobain and he played the guitar with his finger'. Not sure what was wrong with Kurt.

</comment><comment><USER42> I would like to know how she assigned personality traits to each English name

Elegant, Motion, Sensitive, Insistent, Confident, Honest, Clever, Creative, Optimistic, Reliable, Keen, Have empa

And how many names there are in the DB? between 1320=PERMUT(12;3) and 95040=PERMUT(12;5)

ty

</comment><comment><USER43> Is it common for Chinese people to give their children English names, or is the intended audience native-english-speakers who are living in China?

</comment><comment><USER44> The website isn't even loading. The influx of HN readers must be overloading the low-bandwith servers.

Edit: Finally made it on.

Clicked a few icons (for which I believe represented personality traits) and then I was asked to pay money. Who would actually purchase this unintuitive random name generator? Chinese are absolutely delusional for using this, then again they'll eat anything up that comes from the Western World.

Imagine if your son or daughter asked you how you came up with their name. Your response, "bought it for $11.99 on the internet".

</comment><comment><USER45> Googling "special name" turns up the BBC article. What is the FQDN of the actual website?

<comment><USER46> It's [http://www.specialname.cn/](http://www.specialname.cn/) I think it's getting hammered at the moment

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> stock image of a woman : "Hi I'm the CEO ..."

"please wait until our experts choose a special name for your baby ..."

Where goes the line of white lies?

Reminds me of "Catch Me If You Can" and "The Wolf of Wall Street" movies.

</comment><comment><USER38> Why didn't I think of this? HMMM could this work for other asian languages?

<comment><USER48> Maybe, but I know in Vietnam, all citizens are required by law to have a traditional Vietnamese name.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> kinda unrelated, if I want to start an online business similar to this one to charge oversea users, how can I implement the payment system?

what payment system would be available globally?

</comment><comment><USER50> Three guesses at what inspired Beau Jessup's passion for helping parents to not give terrible names to their children.

<comment><USER51> ;-) Both Beau and Jessup are far more common names in England than the US (249th vs 1580th for Beau).

<comment><USER29> It's very unusual for girls, probably because it literally means "male" ([http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beau](http://www.merriam- webster.com/dictionary/beau)).

1 in 1,589 boys ([http://www.babynamescience.com/baby-name/Beau- boy](http://www.babynamescience.com/baby-name/Beau-boy))

1 in 235,542 girls ([http://www.babynamescience.com/baby-name/Beau- girl](http://www.babynamescience.com/baby-name/Beau-girl))

<comment><USER52> _It 's very unusual for girls, probably because it literally means "male"_

No, it is from French: literally, "handsome," or the masculine form of "beautiful." Still an odd choice for a girl. The definition you quote is what it has come to mean in English, but it is really a shorthand.

<comment><USER53> Technically, the girls named "Beau" should have been named "Belle".</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Hong Kong Protests: the dark, silent (and hidden) side of Hong Kongers [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcw7lcZA7SE <comment><AUTHOR> If YouTube asks "Sign in to confirm your age", here is an embedded version which doesn't require sign in:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Hong_Kong/comments/de4a7s/hong_kong...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hong_Kong/comments/de4a7s/hong_kong_protests_the_dark_silent_and_hidden/)

Why does YouTube do this? Allow embedded media on Twitter and other websites to play without restriction, but when you try to watch with YouTube, permissions are enforced?</comment>


Scala's Types of Types - <AUTHOR> http://ktoso.github.io/scala-types-of-types/ <comment><USER2> > A major difference from Java in Scala is, that container types are not- > variant by default!

Only arrays are variant "by default" in java (which was a huge mistake). Variance for generic collections is specified at use, not at the type definition level.

> This means that if you have a container defined as Box[A], and then use it > with a Fruit in place of the type parameter A, you will not be able to > insert an Apple (which IS-A Fruit) into it.

No. What this really means is that you can't assign an instance of Box[Apple] to a val/var of type Box[Fruit].

<comment><USER3> The last part makes sense, no? If you could do

List<Fruit> fruits = apples

Then you could add an orange to the fruits list, and it would appear among the apples.

It doesn't seem like you can fix this without immutability?

<comment><USER4> If you really did have a case where your list is a list of apples, wouldn't you type:

List<Apple> apples = aps

If you're using a general type Fruit, and can't stand any fruit that isn't an apple, you probably need to use the more specific Apple type.

<comment><USER3> I mean, the problem of assigning `fruits = aps` is not that you get apples in your fruit list, but that now elements added to fruit (not of apple type) also get added to `aps`.

The assignment sort of goes both ways like that.

<comment><USER4> Ah, your point makes more sense now. Immutability would help a lot here, it seems.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The following has always had me a bit puzzled, be interested in responses.

If bottom type corresponds to no(thing) and top to any(thing) where does every(thing) and some(thing) fit in? Is there any semantic distinction between any(thing) and every(thing)? There should be, right? For me, some(thing) that had type any(thing) would be an _individual_ but some(thing) that had type every(thing) {actually the mind boggles a bit here} would be a _colection_, the collection of all existing or living things. In fact Ruby has the notion of Objectspace. So we can say things like ObjectSpace.each_object{|x| p x}

<comment><USER6> The any type is an "or" of all your types. Any value in your type system belongs to the top type. The bottom type is a type for which no existing value belongs to this type.

What would an "everything" type be? I'd guess the "and" of all your types, meaning "any value that belongs to all (non-bottom?) types" (e.g. an imaginary 0 symbol meaning zero float, empty list, empty string according to the context). If you want your "every" type to consider bottom type, then the intersection is empty.

Likewise, the "some" type would be a type containing values that belong to at least one type, which IMO looks like the "any" type.

<comment><USER7> An "everthing" type is impossible. It would not only have to be a float, a list, a string, but also a tuple, a monad, and _everything_ else. So 0 _might_ work as an empty string, and 1 might work as a string, but 1 wouldn't work as a dictionary at all, or as a monad, or...

<comment><USER6> In that case the everything type is just bottom.

(edit: to be clear, the bottom type, aka zero/empty type).

<comment><USER8> Bottom's not a type; it's a value that inhabits all types.

<comment><USER9> If you consider subtyping, Bottom is a type IIRC, In the category with types as objects and subtyping relationship (a->b if b is subtype of a) as morphisms, Any is the initial object and Bottom is the final object of the category

<comment><USER10> I think normally one considers the opposite category, where arrows go from subtypes to supertypes, because it can be embedded in the usual category of types and functions, by considering each arrow as the upcasting function.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > if (false) 23 else null

Why isn't the type of this expression Null?

<comment><USER11> Because the type "Any" is the least upper bound of Int and Null. [http://ktoso.github.io/scala-types-of-types/#unified-type- sy...](http://ktoso.github.io/scala-types-of-types/#unified-type-system-any- anyref-anyval)

<comment><USER6> Well, sure, but the over-approximation is surprising given that false is constant and "if" is supposedly a well-known construct.

<comment><USER12> thats a very slippery slope.

      - (0 < 1) is a constant.
      - ((10 + 10)*15 > 0) is a constant.

where do you draw the line _in the type checker_ at working these things out?

<comment><USER13> Exactly. The type checker does track constants (`false` internally has type `Boolean(false)`), but it won't drop `if` branches. That happens later, as you can see in the (abridged) output of `scalac -Xprint:all -Xprint-types`:

      [[syntax trees at end of                     typer]] // constif.scala
      class ConstIf extends scala.AnyRef {
        def m: Any = if (false{Boolean(false)})
          23{Int(23)}
        else
          null{Null(null)}{Any}
      }

      [[syntax trees at end of                 refchecks]] // constif.scala
      class ConstIf extends scala.AnyRef {
        def m: Any = null{Null(null)}
      }

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Calling those "types of types" is highly misleading. The term "type of types" has a very precise technical meaning: [https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/type+of+types](https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/type+of+types)

<comment><USER9> Also, kinds can be viewed as the "types" of types, right?

<comment><USER10> Sure. If your hierarchy (values, types, etc.) stops at kinds, I'd rather call them kinds, but even TAPL informally explains kinds as "the types of types" (p. 441, quotation marks in the original).</comment></comment></comment>


Can Poland's Faded Brutalist Architecture Be Redeemed? - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/t-magazine/poland-brutalism-architecture.html <comment><USER2> :').... look at poland politics today. save the country first, then the architecture! beautyful country with great rich culture and people, being destroyed now and sold out to the EU for personal interests of these politicians. if that goes through... forger about saving anything there....</comment>


A conversation with Gilbert Strang [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGYcSjrqbjc <comment><USER2> In 2009 I was applying to grad schools and was a complete nobody shmuck. I was walking through MIT on a grad student visit and we went past the offices of both Gil Strang and Sigurdur Helgason and I told the grad student guide that I just had to give it a try to say hello.

Not only did Gil Strang say hi, to some totally random nobody, but he invited me into his office, asked me about my undergrad studies (he even knew one of my undergrad professors well), and said a lot of nice and encouraging things about sticking with mathematics and finding a career. Siggy Helgason wasn't in, unfortunately, but I remember Gil Strang referred to him as "the national hero of Iceland" and said I should say hi to him too since I was interested in differential geometry.

What a guy! So gracious with his time in a way that too few academics are (which ended up being part of why I quit a PhD program about 4 years after that talk with Gil Strang and started working instead).

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Here's the link for his upcoming book and new MIT course videos that be will posted online in a few weeks:

 _Linear Algebra and Learning from Data_

[http://math.mit.edu/~gs/learningfromdata/](http://math.mit.edu/~gs/learningfromdata/)

<comment><USER3> Any news on the release of the book? Where to buy and when? much appreciated.

<comment><AUTHOR> The book is "expected to appear in December 2018" [1] (send an email to the address located on the cover page below to get updates / early notification)...

[1] [http://math.mit.edu/~gs/learningfromdata/dsla_dlnn.pdf](http://math.mit.edu/~gs/learningfromdata/dsla_dlnn.pdf)

<comment><USER3> Thank you!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> His linear algebra video lectures from 1999 are fantastic: [https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-06-linear- algebra...](https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-06-linear-algebra- spring-2010/video-lectures/)

I used them ~2006 when I was college. Someone I know who just graduated this year in mechanical engineering also found and used them independently from me.

In my social circles, we've always talked about Gilbert Strang as the best math professor who never actually worked at the university we went to.

<comment><USER5> > we've always talked about Gilbert Strang as the best math professor who > never actually worked at the university we went to.

I very much relate to this. I've never attended the same school of any of my favorite professors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Forever grateful to this man. 18.06 is my all time favorite online course, it's hard to beleive it was recorded so many years ago.

</comment><comment><USER7> Was so grateful that my linear algebra professor at Drexel back in 2004 managed to get Strang, the author of our textbook, to take Amtrak down to Philadelphia for a guest lecture. Learned more that day than any other, and gladly waited after class to have him autograph my textbook!

</comment><comment><USER8> I remember watching the MIT OCW videos for linear algebra and thinking ... this guy came to the Earth to teach this subject. Amazing intuition.

EDIT: Makes me wonder .. what are other examples of teachers who teach their subject soooo well.

<comment><USER9> > this guy came to the Earth to teach this subject

Exactly that!

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I wish he would do an online course on advanced stuff like presented in Golub and van Loan.

</comment><comment><USER11> He's a great teacher but I prefer to see linear algebra from the point of view of linear maps/operators/transformations and matrices as their representations. His approach goes rather from matrix arithmetic as far as I know.

<comment><USER12> Is there an online course that covers linear algebra in that way?

<comment><USER13> Gil Strang taught 18.06, the more calculation-focused and elementary version of linear algebra, when I was at MIT. The approach mentioned by the OP was what was taken in the more theoretical version, 18.701. I think that class has notes and lectures on OCW.</comment></comment></comment>


Virtualmin (a YC company) has a new website, feedback wanted - <AUTHOR> http://www.virtualmin.com <comment><USER2> Overall it's extremely nice. Some unfiltered random things that I thought:

\+ So much text on the front page I didn't read any of it.

\+ The favicon "fit into" the logo. Trivial, but pleasing.

\+ The first thing I wanted to see after screenshots was the demo, but I only found that by scrolling to the bottom.

\+ The demo seems to be on a slow machine or something because it's not very responsive and the UI graphics (rounded corner GIFs) loaded slowly (no keepalives?).

\+ The quote "Your software kicks ass!" seems a _little_ risque for your intended audience. It stood out to me at least.

\+ "Docs" navigation option made me thing of Google Docs & Spreadsheets which through me off.

\+ Navigation links are a bit non-standard and seem unimportant because of their size.

<comment><AUTHOR> I finally have to accept that pg was right...I talk way too damned much, and everyone agrees. So the text is getting a serious pruning.

I'll make the demo more visible. The demo is, in fact, on a slow machine--it's a qemu instance on the server itself. I'm moving it to a much faster xen or EC2 this week sometime. It is now doing double duty as the Webmin demo server, so at any given time there are several people logged in. It's working pretty hard for such a wimpy system.

As for the quote being little risque, that's OK in my book. We're not the stodgy choice (that'd be cPanel), so the stodgy "nobody ever got fired for buying cPanel" folks won't buy what we're selling anyway. I think it's downright wonderful that a customer said it on a whim, so I couldn't help but take the opportunity to share it.

I've renamed Docs to Documentation.

I'll try bumping the nav links up a notch.

Thanks for the great tips staunch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Clean look. Good fonts and colors. But way too much text. I'd guess you could (thus should) cut three quarters of the words on the page. Also, it's not clear enough that the screenshot is a screenshot: it looks like a form on the page.

<comment><AUTHOR> I knew you'd say that (about the too much text). Everyone seems to agree, though. Somehow I still manage to talk too damned much.

Text is being pruned as we speak. I'll see what I can do about the screenshots.

<comment><USER4> I'm sure you are already doing this. But "The four best ways to manage your server

Virtualmin offers four methods for managing your server: Web, mobile device, command line, and remote API. Virtualmin is always available, no matter where you are or how you want to work."

can be...

Virtualmin is always available, no matter where you are. You can conveniently manage your servers through Web, mobile, command line and remote API.

I'd delete the entire paragraph following Try a live demo. Just replace it with a link saying live demo.

With the watch a video paragraph can't you put the picture of the video with a link and a play button on it here?

The little I know about writing I learned from "On writing well" - Zinsser. His chapter on simplicity is worth the price of the entire book.

<comment><AUTHOR> "With the watch a video paragraph can't you put the picture of the video with a link and a play button on it here?"

That's a great idea. Why didn't I think of that?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> A few thoughts:

\- too much text.

\- it isn't immediately obvious to me what the differentiators are for your product vs. competition

\- Brighten up the site. Your audience may be technical, but that doesn't necessarily mean we don't like colour. Of course, these things are subjective.

\- might want to make the screenshot even larger - or zoom into an interesting feature. Visuals break up the page and draw the eye.

\+ the quote at the top is good

\- you say 'the four best ways to manage your server' and then make the user search thru a paragraph of text to figure out what you mean. Call the 4 ways out with more emphasis..

\- don't think you need the 'The New Virtualmin.com' section. It's like a sausage maker boasting about improvements to their factory... Perhaps you could make better use of that space by focusing on the product. \- Use more visuals - perhaps to highlight the top 3 features of your product

There are more positives than I have mentioned but calling out what needs to be improved would probably be of more use to you.

<comment><USER6> Hrm. I didn't like the quote at the top myself. I thought it focused too much on the people making the thing, rather than something like "Thanks to Virtualmin, I can manage 31415926 servers in just 10 minutes a day!" or "Here at hornywetsluts dot com, virtualmin has been a blessing - it let us take our business to the next level"... Something customer focused, in short.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'll point out the non-obvious fact that everyone is seeing a different quote, every time they load the page. So, the quote you didn't like is probably not the same one the parent did. ;-)

It's just nice things people have been telling us lately. The selection of quotes will grow over time.

I should probably grill you two to find out exactly which quotes you did and didn't like.

<comment><USER6> Aha, wasn't sure, should have quoted it. It was something to the effect of "I'm sure you already know this, but you rock".

Not to comment at all on your degree of 'rocking', just that as a quote it doesn't do too much for me:-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Basically I like it, but it could be more user-friendly, communicating what you do with significantly less cognitive load.

Needs a tagline with the logo - tell me very quickly what it is you do. Could even use the intro sentence "[Virtualmin is] the world's most powerful and flexible webserver administration tool" as tagline.

You could then use the main textblock to make the the product's essential features bolder and simpler to grok; less paragraphy, more bullet-pointy.

I would also minimise the bottom bits into link+sentence and make them clearer/brighter. Sell the product in the main block: you don't need to sell the links to the demo/video with whole paragraphs, just present them clearly.

Off the main page, you need some whitespace at the bottom of the landing pages (buy & download). At the moment the footer is squashing the text.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks dood. Excellent advice.

Everyone, pg included, agrees that I talk too much. So I'll definitely cut out some of the unnecessary exposition. Now that you mention it, it seems obvious that I don't need to tell people why they would want to see the demo or the introductory video. It really takes another pair of eyes to spot these kinds of things (maybe design gods can do it all for themselves, but I never would have figured it out for myself).

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The screenshots need to NOT fly by. Put a link, "Next ScreenShot" at the top. I call this the "Forbes Magazine slideshow problem", because forbes does that to a ridiculous degree.

One thing: I've used products like this in the past, and really didn't like them. Yours certainly looks nicer, but the big problem is that most admins (most good admins) like to stay closer to the command line. So, a quick suggestion: When someone envokes this or that command by clicking around, stick it in a rolling log, clearly visible.

So, if I press "Start Tomcat", I see a little box that says:

/etc/init.d/tomcat5 start

...and if I press "Restart Machine" I see:

shutdown -9 now

...if you know what I'm saying. This will allow people to see precisely what's going on, and let them ditch the admin screen as needed and replicate the commands manually.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey mynameishere,

Thanks for the suggestions. I was kind of worried about the screenshots, myself. I'll add forward/back clickies.

Actually, we're pretty much with you on the "show people what's happening" train, though we don't always show the command being executed (it's often not actually commands, but processing of configuration files and such--restarting services is a tiny part of what we do), we do generally show the command line output of the commands we run. So, restarting a service does give you back the results from the initscript.

And to go further on that theme, my book (published by No Starch in '03 and now combined with Jamie's book from the Bruce Perens Open Source series and online for free at <http://doxfer.com/Webmin)> is pretty heavily focused on connecting up the GUI to the command line. We're not into hocus pocus and hiding the system from the user--our interest is in making it easier to get things done right fast.

I'll also mention that Virtualmin is based on Webmin, which is religious about being polite to command line editing of configuration files. You can twist your httpd.conf into a tiny little ball and toss it in a corner, and as long as the syntax is valid, Webmin will deal with it correctly. It respects comments, the order of the file, and won't overwrite your changes (except where it has been told to do so). It is a wholly different kind of product than Plesk or cPanel (which are pretty much all-or-nothing, and don't permit anyone else to touch the config files). Webmin's got over 300,000 lines of code to deal with all of that stuff correctly...nobody else even tries.

But, now I'm talking too much. ;-)

Thanks again for your thoughts.

<comment><USER9> Another problem with the rotating screenshots...I clicked on the small version to see it bigger and got a different screenshot.

<comment><AUTHOR> Is that a problem? I kinda thought the variety was interesting. But, if it's disconcerting rather than exciting, I'll make it a bit more predictable. Shows what I know. ;-)

Anybody else find randomized screenshots on the front page (and then not matching the big version on the screenshots page) troublesome?

<comment><USER9> Problem was when I saw a screenshot with details that interested me, I clicked on it hoping to get a larger version. I did get a larger version, but it was a larger version of a _different_ screenshot.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Not to kick a dead horse, but I agree with everyone that there's too much text. It isn't just a problem on the front page, but all across the site.

On another note, why is your software better than cPanel?

<comment><AUTHOR> "On another note, why is your software better than cPanel?"

That's actually the same note. If you had the question when looking at the website, others will too. ;-)

I'm working on a new comparison chart (the old one was too wordy) to post to the website sometime soon.

Short answer:

We're mobile capable. Nearly everything in the browser UI degrades to a usable mobile accessible version

We're clean and polite to the underlying system. Sysadmins who've dealt with cPanel or Plesk on the command line will know how valuable this distinction is.

Comprehensive and easily scriptable command line and remote API.

Ruby on Rails and Gems support in the next release this weekend

PHP 4 and PHP 5 simultaneously with php.ini and PEAR modules management

mod_fcgid with suexec (rather than the old and rather clunky suphp)

spam/AV filtering per-user and per-domain

built-in WYSIWYG website builder

nice database GUIs for MySQL and PostgreSQL (I believe they are nicer than phpMyAdmin and phpPgAdmin, but if the user disagrees we also provide those)

70+ easily installable applications (compare to Fantastico at $199 extra), including SugarCRM and a few others that nobody else has the guts to touch because they're so damned complicated to install

comprehensive monitoring and alerts (also mobile capable)

optional Google Analytics (and Quantcast and MyBlogLog) injection into all pages, regardless of how they're served--static, PHP, Ruby, CGI, whatever

tiered pricing, so someone with a couple of domains doesn't have to spend $450

There's more, but I'm talking too much again...

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Just a small point, but on Firefox on Linux the "Lost Password / Register " links don't render properly (unless you make the font really small). Makes the page look a bit messy.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I noticed that, too. That was due to some other suggested changes. Should be fixed now in the style sheet.

<comment><USER11> Nope, still there for me :( Although it's broken in a different way now...

<comment><AUTHOR> I see. If you've forced bigger fonts it pushes things around some. I'll have to work on that. A white-space: nowrap for that div makes the login form unbreakable, but it can break the rest of the page with fonts even two notches bigger than what I've specified. That's a problem (I force bigger fonts myself, quite often...).

Thanks for pointing it out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Very cool! I did not get one part: are you the same team who makes webmin?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes. Jamie, my co-founder is the primary author of all 300,000+ lines of code in Webmin and the 90,000+ lines of code in Usermin. (I'm not entirely convinced he's human.)

<comment><USER12> Kudos to your cyber-cofounder :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The question I was thinking was: Who exactly is this product for?</comment>


CVE-2015-3641: Bitcoind Unspecified DoS - <AUTHOR> https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures&diff=57082&oldid=prev

<comment><AUTHOR> Appears to be just now disclosed.

Still marked as reserved @ [https://cve.mitre.org/cgi- bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2015-3641](https://cve.mitre.org/cgi- bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2015-3641)

Did I miss an public post about this, or was a fix secretly committed that fixed this?

<comment><AUTHOR> [https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin- dev/2015...](https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin- dev/2015-June/009135.html)

To be announced July 7th</comment></comment>


A World Without Strings Is Chaos - <AUTHOR> http://beyondloom.com/blog/strings.html <comment><USER9> I wonder how many of the solutions would still work for arbitrary unicode strings. It looks like the author assumes only ascii exists. Perhaps the interns would be better off if they were taught that "reverse a string" is a fundamentally dangerous (and pointless) operation in almost any real-life context. Strings are way more complex than people give them credit for.

<comment><USER10> It's not clear to me why reversing a string is dangerous or pointless.

<comment><USER11> An array of characters reversed loses the original meaning of the characters. Other than looking for palindromes, there's almost nothing in the way of practical uses of a reversed string that can't be accomplished by subscripting the string and iterating from the end to the beginning.

<comment><USER12> I found this little gem on Software engineering StackExchange: [https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/2469...](https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/24691/what- do-you-use-string-reversal-for)

Suffice it to say, there are many interesting uses for string reversal :)

<comment><USER11> Interesting, but questionably useful. If you're converting integer bases or obfuscating email addresses, there are much better approaches that don't involve a bad hack

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Dyalog APL:

        0 - Multiplicity (count character)
        'h'(+/=)'fhqwhgads'

        1 - Trapeze Part (palindrome)
        (⊢≡⌽)'racecar'

        2 - chars which appear more than once
            (not too happy with my Key ⌸ ones)
        {k←{⍺,⍨1<≢⍵}⌸⍵ ⋄ k[;1]/k[;2]} 'applause'

        3 - reordered letters
        'teapot'{⍺[⍋⍺]≡⍵[⍋⍵]}'toptea'
        ≡/(⊂∘⍋⌷⊢)¨'teapot' 'toptea'

        4 - chars which appear once
        {k←{⍺,⍨1=≢⍵}⌸⍵ ⋄ k[;1]/k[;2]} 'somewhat heterogenous'

        5 - musical chars
        'barfoo' {∨/⍺≡⍤1⊢⍵⌽⍤0 1⍨⍳≢⍵} 'foobar'

        6 - sort strings by length, ascending
        {⍵[⍋≢¨⍵]} 'books' 'apple' 'peanut' 'aardvark' 'melon' 'pie'
        ((⊂∘⍋(≢¨⊢))⌷⊢) 'books' 'apple' 'peanut' 'aardvark' 'melon' 'pie'

        7 - Most frequent character
        {k←{⍺,≢⍵}⌸⍵ ⋄ ⊃k[;1][⍋k[;2]]} 'abdbbac'

        8 - reverse words
        {⊃{⍺,' ',⍵}/⌽¨' '((~=)⊆⊢)⍵} 'a few words in a sentence'

        9 - <USER2>
        1 0 0 1 0 1/'foobar'

        10 - <USER3>
        1 0 0 1 0 1 {'_'@(⍸~⍺)⍺\⍵} 'fbr'

        11 - <USER4>
        {'_'@(⍸'AEIOUYaeiouy'∊⍨⍵)⊢⍵} 'FLAPJACKS'

        12 - Consonants Rdx
        {⍵/⍨~'AEIOUYaeiouy'∊⍨⍵} 'FLAPJACKS'

        13 - Word replace
        ⍸'a few words in a sentence' {idx←⍸⍵⍷⍺ ⋄ idx,←idx+¨⍳¯1+≢⍵ ⋄ 'x'@idx⊢⍺} 'words'

        14 - <USER5>
        ? a recursive one shouldn't be so hard, but..
        {0=≢⍵:'' ⋄ ... } 'xyz'

        non-recursive, much harder:
        https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Doc/Articles/Play202

<comment><USER14> Nice! Here are some J solutions. Unfortunately, I only have time for a few, right now. Hopefully, I can add some more later:

        'mississippi' +/@:= 's'         NB. 0 - <USER6>
        (-:|.) 'racecar'                NB. 1 - Trapeze Part
        (~. #~ 1 < +/@|:@=) 'applause'  NB. 2 - <USER7>
        'teapot' -:&({~/:) 'toptea'     NB. 3 - Sort Yourself Out
        (~. #~ 1 = +/@|:@=) 'foo bar'   NB. 4 - Precious Snowflakes

<comment><USER14> Just for posterity, here are the rest I came up with:

        'foobar' (e. ] A.~ +/@(!@i.@- *&|: >:@i.@- $&> i.)@#) 'barfoo'  NB. 5 - Musical Chars
        (/: #&>) 'books';'apple';'peanut';'aardvark';'melon';'pie'      NB. 6 - Size Matters
        (~. #~ [: (= >./) +/@|:@=) 'abdbbac'                            NB. 7 - Popularity Contest
        |.&.>&.;: 'a few words in a sentence'                           NB. 8 - esreveR A ecnetneS
        'foobar' #~ 1 0 0 1 0 1                                         NB. 9 - Compression Session
        'fbr' [`(I.@])`($&'_'@#@])} 1 0 0 1 0 1                         NB. 10 - Expansion Mansion
        '_'&(I.@e.&'AIUEOaiueo'@]}) 'FLAPJACKS'                         NB. 11 - <USER8>
        -.&'AIUEOaiueo' 'FLAPJACKS'                                     NB. 12 - Cnsnnts Rdx
        'one fish two fish' [`($&'X'@#&.>@[)@.e."0 _&.;: 'fish'         NB. 13 - TITLE REDACTED
        (A.~ i.@!@#) 'xyz'                                              NB. 14 - It's More Fun to Permute

Note that 14 is trivially non-recursive. I am fairly happy with these solutions, especially 5 and 13 which took the most thought.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15>
      This is the TXR Lisp interactive listener of TXR 233.
      Quit with :quit or Ctrl-D on empty line. Ctrl-X ? for cheatsheet.
      1> (countq #\h "fhqwhgads")
      2
      2> [[callf equal identity reverse] "palindrome"]
      nil
      3> [[callf equal identity reverse] "racecar"]
      t
      4> [(opip (mappend [iff (op > (countq @1 @@1) 1) list] @1) uniq) "applause"]
      "ap"
      5> [(opip (mappend [iff (op > (countq @1 @@1) 1) list] @1) uniq) "foo"]
      "o"
      6> [(opip (mappend [iff (op > (countq @1 @@1) 1) list] @1) uniq) "baz"]
      ""
      7> [[mapf equal sort sort] "teapot" "toptea"]
      t
      8> [[mapf equal identity sort] "apple" "elap"]
      nil
      9> [(op mappend [iff (op eql (countq @1 @@1) 1) list] @1) "somewhat heterogeneous"]
      "mwa rgnu"
      10> [(do and (= (len @1) (len @2)) (search-str `@2@2` @1)) "foobar" "barfoo"]
      3
      11> [(do and (= (len @1) (len @2)) (search-str `@2@2` @1)) "fboaro" "foobar"]
      nil
      12> [sort '#"books apple peanut aardvark melon pie" : len]
      ("pie" "books" "apple" "melon" "peanut" "aardvark")

Yawn ...

      13> (perm "xyz")  ;; non-recursive, lazy, written in C.
      ("xyz" "xzy" "yxz" "yzx" "zxy" "zyx")

<comment><USER15> Erratum:

      8> [[mapf equal identity sort] "apple" "elap"]
      nil

Should be:

      ... sort sort ...

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I was thinking I really need to research how to efficiently deal with strings in a certain language that doesn't allow them to be accessed as arrays of characters. Because then I could get started on porting some C code to it.

<comment><USER17> Ha ha. Rust? I suppose it depends on the context of what you're trying to do.

Edit: if it is Rust most of the time you'll want to use character iterators/map/filter/etc. Then benchmark.

<comment><USER18> The Rust docs have good sections on this:

[https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch08-02-strings.html](https://doc.rust- lang.org/book/ch08-02-strings.html)

[https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/primitive.char.html](https://doc.rust- lang.org/std/primitive.char.html)

TLDR you _can_ straightforwardly access as bytes, or iterate as "Unicode scalar values" as stored in the 4-byte "char" type.

(But a "Unicode scalar value" is not exactly equal to the colloquial meaning of "character".)

However: If you care about valid UTF-8 inputs not breaking the function or intent of your code, it's probably time to understand the problems Unicode is actually trying to address, and apply those considerations to what you're trying to do. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I hate string processing. Is there any widely used programming language that _does not_ support strings? I mean, you can do all of math, scientific computing, and graphics without strings. Forcing your language to support strings will inevitably impose compromises that make the language worse when you do not need them. I want such a language, unencumbered by the intrinsic uglyness of strings.

<comment><USER20> Futhark has only the most basic string support -- string literal syntax, which which is just sugar for a utf-8 byte array. It's a functional array language that generates fast GPU code, and as a GPU program is essentially a pure function (no input/output), string handling is very much a secondary concern. Futhark is used exactly for math, scientific computing, and graphics, and not for strings.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> That is an absolutely delightful Mouse Hunt reference I wasn't expecting today.

</comment><comment><USER22> Can somebody explain the title to me? This is just a collection of puzzles.

<comment><USER23> It's a reference to a quote from the 1997 film _Mouse Hunt_.

[https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/MouseHunt_(film)#Lars_Smuntz](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/MouseHunt_\(film\)#Lars_Smuntz)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Physicists will be disappointed ;)

<comment><USER25> And orchestras...

<comment><USER26> And solo guitarists too.

<comment><USER27> And puppeteers

<comment><USER26> Oh, I forgot about politics..</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Justices Won't Hear Appeal of NY Internet Taxation - <AUTHOR> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/justices-hear-appeal-ny-internet-taxation-21068231

<comment><AUTHOR> Looks like internet taxes are here to stay. We need to focus on simplifying sales tax calculation and remittance.</comment>


Interview with Steve Klabnik - <AUTHOR> http://www.maskmagazine.com/the-cyborgoisie-issue/work/steve-klabnik-interview

<comment><AUTHOR> Looks like the site got DoSed by HN. Here is the Google cache:

[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:idihHm...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:idihHmnwcm4J:www.maskmagazine.com/the- cyborgoisie-issue/work/steve-klabnik-interview+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)</comment>