What I found When I analysis million followers of President Trump with nlp - <AUTHOR> https://www.insightninja.net/blog/trump_followers_analysis <comment><USER2> Interesting content but also second the spellcheck point when you are posting about natural language. Also, pie charts are horrible for things with a ton of data points-the second graph kind of pulls it off because "en" is so large but can't make much out of the first graph. Third, while Five Thirty Eight is certainly well known, they definitely make mistakes, as was seen in their complete miss in prediction of his presidency. They are no better than Rasmussen who currently holds Trump at a split 49% approval rate, may want to add them as another source to better balance your fact statements.

[http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/poli...](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/prez_track_feb05)

<comment><USER3> Agreed charts are supposed to make understanding the data easier. This may do the opposite.

<comment><AUTHOR> I thought Pie chart will make the percentage more clearly. Do you have any suggestions for the chart? Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Why the need for machine learning for the second part? It seems like a complicated way to do what you could do with some simple database queries.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's not about some simple word frequencies of words. Some common words like "like" "need" "second" "part" in the dataset of whole documents isn't so meaningful in a specific sentence. Google "tf-idf" will show you more details about this.

<comment><USER3> Ok, I looked that up. Again isn't this something that Elasticsearch would do without needing to set up a machine learning system?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> good content, but run your text through spell-check before posting, and/or send it to someone to proofread.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry for that, I will check it again.</comment></comment>


The silent CVE in the heart of Kubernetes apiserver - <AUTHOR> https://gravitational.com/blog/kubernetes-websocket-upgrade-security-vulnerability/ <comment><USER2> The PoC is mostly correct, but basically is testing for a side effect of the fix, not the presence of the vulnerability. Either which way it's probably still useful, but since we are all geeks here might as well talk about the minutia.

The PoC basically tests that if you create a websocket request that results in non-101 response the socket is closed by the server. That is a side effect of the fix. The way the proxy code works is that on presence of the Upgrade header it first hijacks the HTTP request and dials the target. It then starts a copy loop but reads the first bytes into a http.Response. If the response is not 101 it will exit.

The a side effect is that it just so happens to be that because the connection is hijacked the golang server will not reuse the TCP connection and will close it. But according to the HTTP spec that TCP connection is still valid for reuse so the server does not have to actually close the connection (but it happens to). Where this PoC could fall apart is if you are running kube- apiserver behind a particularly pedantic LB (ALB might apply here). Most LBs will not reuse any TCP connection that had an Upgrade header in it, but if they are smart and read the response they can if it didn't result in a 101. From that perspective a load balancer (or reverse proxy) is not obligated to close the TCP connection to the client.

To fully test the vulnerability you need to find a pod you can exec to and another pod on the same node you are not authorized to exec to. First send a malformed pod exec and get the open socket. Then send another request using the kubelet API to exec to a pod you are not authorized for. Then see if you get a valid response (which I believe is a callback URL for the actually tty stream).

The PoC is still basically valid because it could just give you a false negative that you are vulnerable (not a false positive all is swell).

<comment><USER3> You're analysis is correct.

I did briefly consider this when originally throwing together the PoC. It seemed reasonable at the time to test for the behaviour of the kubernetes apiserver as implemented, not how it could theoretically behave if implemented differently. In the ALB/L7 type use case, I'm not sure a reliable PoC can ever exist, because even if you do successfully exploit it, the second request can be load balanced elsewhere.

Also, I don't believe you would necessarily need a separate pod, the PoC could work by using different endpoints, such as exec vs logs, or even better, try and hit a non pod related API endpoint within kubelet. Unfortunately I tried to get the PoC working quickly, and didn't have a chance to revisit this today to see if it can be enhanced.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Author here. There were maddeningly few layperson details of the actual flaw and impact in the first few hours after the 9.8/10 CVE news dropped. If you're only tacitly following Kubernetes news from afar this article is for you.

If you're an operator still in the muck or need a quick way to test, check out our vuln PoC: [https://github.com/gravitational/cve-2018-1002105](https://github.com/gravitational/cve-2018-1002105)

</comment><comment><USER5> > K8s also allows upgrading apiserver connections to full, live, end-to-end > HTTP/2 websockets.

There's no such thing as an HTTP/2 websocket.[0] Websockets are a purely HTTP/1.1 concept, and they're only HTTP/1.1 until the moment that the `Upgrade` happens, at which point the TCP socket gets hijacked.

I'm confused as to why HTTP/2 is mentioned. I guess they just mean a normal websocket?

[0]: [https://medium.com/axiomzenteam/websockets-http-2-and- sse-5c...](https://medium.com/axiomzenteam/websockets-http-2-and- sse-5c24ae4d9d96)

<comment><USER4> Thx, an error on my part. Will fix ASAP

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Has there been any word of how long this has been known about? I recall a certain group of people talking confidently, open but vaguely about a serious k8s security bug at least a few months ago. Given the number of clusters that undoubtedly had to be upgraded for this, it wouldn't surprise me if this was found a while ago.

Also, my heart goes out to the [big company] engineering manager asking in the GitHub thread if 1.7.x clusters are affected.

<comment><USER2> I'm fairly confident this issue has existed since pretty much the beginning of k8s. It is possible it doesn't go back that far because SPDY used to be used and not websockets. The basic Upgrade logic still applies so I assume it was there. This flaw is actually in quite a few open source projects, it's a common approach and mistake. For most projects it results in a functional bug, not a security issue.

I personally found this issue and highly doubt anybody previously exploited it. This bug was discovered from the perspective of a functional bug and only later realized it had a security impact. So it wasn't like somebody was first hacked, and also a security researcher didn't find it either. Basically this issue is very nuanced and I don't think many would be looking for it (although people will now).

Although plenty of people are saying the sky is failing, this is mostly a privileged escalation issue which means you first need valid access to do something harmful. So it's not a fabulous attack vector because hard multitenant clusters are extremely rare. Searching for anonymous auth on kubelets is a better use of your time.

<comment><USER6> Thanks Darren, I wish I'd read your post earlier to have realized the timeline. I agree with your conclusions re: the sky. Thank you for the write- up and replying here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm really pleased GKE had already patched and updated my clusters before I heard about this on Monday.

<comment><USER8> Agreed, that's the way disclosure should work and it was very nice to go from reading the news of the vuln to reading the GKE security bulletin stating that all masters had already been upgraded.</comment></comment>


37 Signals' New office (pics and video) - <AUTHOR> http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2593-official-pictures-of-our-new-office <comment><USER2> My dream office would be a Swiss chalet at the foot of a mountain. Multiple giant roaring fireplaces going 24/7. Ski in ski out. Girls in Bavarian outfits serving Oktoberfest beer and food. Backbone Internet speeds. 27" iMacs all around with matte screens and SSD's. Treadmill desks. Weightroom, sauna, soaking tub, raquetball, basketball court, full time Swedish masseuse. Banksy tags outside. Old masters and some crazy art from some tag artist friends inside. A Newfoundland that hangs out. No conference rooms. Giant whiteboards that slide up and down like they had in college. Sound proof meditation room. Those Red leather chairs they use on stage at allthingsD. Aston Martin fleet. Ridiculous gun room. Huge bbq, smoker on the rooftop. Taco truck outside. Automated laundry service. Machine shop with 5 axis CNC machines and 3d printers.

I don't know where that came from... seams prudent.

<comment><USER3> Have you considered a career as a James Bond antagonist?

<comment><USER2> Yes but we will antagonize out of touch, established companies with sharks fitted with lasers while making better software/hardware. And have perennially dominating Formula 1 team.

<comment><USER4> You can actually do better by selling software and hardware infrastructure to other evil geniuses working to antagonized (er... disrupt) established companies.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I am biased but this looks insufferably sterile compared to where I work:

[http://tycole.blogspot.com/2010/05/etsy-office-in-dumbo- hang...](http://tycole.blogspot.com/2010/05/etsy-office-in-dumbo-hangar- design.html)

<comment><USER6> Esty's office space looks sweet, but how do they keep that place clean? Even in normal offices I am always surprised how must dust collects everywhere and that is with cleaners coming in every day... can't imagine anyone ever dusting a giant owl.

<comment><USER5> It is a bit of a mystery to me, too, but it's clean. Equal parts office managers, people pitching in, a custodian every night, and my dachshund patrolling the ground for remnants of food.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I guess I'm in the minority but that office doesn't look attractive to me at all.

It left a dark, cold and sterile impression on me...

<comment><USER8> I was surprised by the chalk boards, do other devs/designers people really prefer those over whiteboards?

<comment><USER9> Perhaps it's a contrarian thing?

Most developers use whiteboards, so the exceedingly tasteful folks at 37signals will surely use something more refined.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Looks amazing, just watch out for the "curse of a new building".

[http://steveblank.com/2009/05/15/supermac-war- story-11-the-c...](http://steveblank.com/2009/05/15/supermac-war-story-11-the- curse-of-a-new-building/)

<comment><USER11> Is there anything that Steve hasn't written about? :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Kudos to Jason for giving nice referrals (with links!) to his vendors. I wish we'd see more of this.

[Aside: Is that DHH having a snack at the stainless steel table, and was he really working or just surfing Hacker News?]

<comment><USER13> I'll be writing up a post about what it was like working with each vendor as well. Not sure when I'll get around to it, but I'm looking forward to sharing the experience.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Seems like it would be "loud" to me. While I think it looks awesome, the fact that they have a room for the phone means that it probably echoes a good deal with that roof.

I'm a bit of a Spolsky-ite when it comes to office space - everyone should have an office - so it isn't my dream layout, but I will say the design is very, very cool.

<comment><USER15> It's actually very quiet in person. The space reminds me of a university library. Most of the materials, from the carpet, to the felt paneling, to the corkboard in the team rooms, to the dividers between desks, to the tiles on the rear walls, were chosen specifically for their sound-dampening qualities.

The phone booths are a reaction to our former space where we'd get up and go out into the hallway to take phone calls. They exist because we value privacy, not because the office is too loud.

<comment><USER14> Cool, thanks for the additional info.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I've seen this link of inventionland offices today: [http://www.officesnapshots.com/2010/09/29/inventionland- offi...](http://www.officesnapshots.com/2010/09/29/inventionland-offices/) \- looks even better than pixar's animators booths.

<comment><USER17> Better? How could you stay sane in that environment?

<comment><USER16> Why couldn't you?

<comment><USER17> It's so far-fetched and fake that I'd end up dressing like Willy Wonka and try hiring midgets to do my work.

<comment><USER16> Hah, fair enough! Pixar seems to be doing a fine job in an environment similar to that one though. Probably depends on the job you're doing too. I couldn't imagine walking into a bank that has clerks on a pirate ship... or maybe I could.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Great textures going on. Like the space a lot.

</comment><comment><USER19> Maybe update the story title? The company name is "37signals", not "37 Signals". (Some people consider the distinction pedantic, but I'm a pedant.)

</comment><comment><USER20> I like all the small conference rooms. Would love to have a ton of small rooms. Not for meetings, but when we want to pair/talk something out, often go somewhere where we wouldn't disrupt others. Plus easier for video/phone conferencing with someone remote. Small room, few chairs, phone, table, and a whiteboard. Plenty of markers and erasers, since those always get stolen.

</comment><comment><USER21> I love the textures. I also love the contrast of the wood and concrete. It also looks very well lit.

The first thought that came to mind was that this is the type of office space that Howard Roark would architect. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead#Architectural_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead#Architectural_theme)

</comment><comment><USER22> Very nice. This office seems to fit their philosophy very well -- clean and simple without excess distractions. I wonder if they studied existing research on the effects of workspace on productivity and creativity.

Perhaps, this will start a new trend in office design for SaaS companies.

</comment><comment><USER23> "Very nice, very nice. How much?"

Seriously, very curious of a ballpark figure for the renovation.

<comment><USER13> A bit over a million total for everything including furniture.

<comment><USER23> Thanks. Money well spent it seems :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Congratulations to Jason Fried & David Hansson for new good looking office.

<comment><USER24> why down vote. Should i take my congratulations back.

<comment><USER25> You were most likely downvoted because people don't want threads filling up with a bunch of "congrats!" type comments, which are admittedly friendly but don't really add anything to the conversation.

Even though one or two might not seem like too many, "none" is a simpler heuristic than "how many are there? Ok, we have enough, downvote any new ones..."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I really like the clean industrial style of the new offices.

</comment><comment><USER27> Looks nice, but it's still in Chicago - no thanks :-)

<comment><USER28> I never understood this mentality. Why do all the "Cool" companies have to live on the coast? It bothers me that I have to live 2000 miles away from my family if I want a great job. The Midwest has many appealing features.

<comment><USER29> Please help me understand what those appealing features are. I am not being snarky. My wife is currently trying to get me to consider moving back there because everything is cheaper. Sure, it's cheaper: it is, as far as I am currently concerned, a less desirable place to live. Being from California, I'm clearly snobbish. So seriously, what am I missing about the Chicagoland area? Keep in mind: I'm used to nice weather, beautiful and varied natural environment, and a distinctive culture. And thin people.

<comment><USER30> It really depends on what you are looking for, and all of the points you made are true. However, Chicago has some great things going for it IF you like living IN the city. Chicago's winters are brutal, but the rest of the year is gorgeous. Chicago overall has much better weather than San Fran, though much worse than the rest of the Bay Area. If you want to raise a family, while living in the city, it is both doable and affordable here. Areas like Wicker Park and Lakeview have pretty tree lined streets, brick 3-flats, amazing restraunts, coffee shops, record stores etc etc. The bars are amazing, good music venues, oh and you will never have to get behind the wheel drunk because you cannot walk 5 feet without seeing a cab for hire. There are great artist and developer communities here, as well as a budding startup scene.

I am not saying you should rush out of San Fran for Chicago, but if you are considering moving here you should give it serious consideration.

One caveat, for the love of god don't move to the suburbs. They are filled with mid-westerners. scary.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Sterile, pretentious, cold. As expected :/

<comment><USER13> Come by sometime and you'll see its none of those things.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> On the end of the video, the guy is using an iMac right beside a huge window. No way this would work.

<comment><USER13> It's real, it works. It's a north facing bank of windows - no direct sun.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Gorgeous!

</comment><comment><USER34> The 37 signals worship here is a tad bit annoying.</comment>


Tony Delgado Launches Coding Bootcamp in Puerto Rico - <AUTHOR> https://hackernoon.com/tony-delgado-launches-coding-bootcamp-in-puerto-rico-0bl3y7w <comment><AUTHOR> Tony Delgado is a Puerto Rican-American software developer, businessman, activist, philanthropist, and tech entrepreneur who has started multiple online and software-based businesses. He is the founder of Disrupt, an online media, and education company that has leveraged the power of social media and technology to transform the lives of the students all throughout Latin America. Tony is on a humanitarian mission to help the 3 million people who live on the island of Puerto Rico, by teaching the principles of technology, innovation, and entrepreneurship. He thinks the word "nerd" should be considered a curse word in school, as it shames kids from being smart and excelling in life. He wants to change young people's mindsets and make them become open-minded and have a different view of technology and the opportunities it contains.</comment>


Nvidia Unveils GeForce RTX 30 Series GPUs - <AUTHOR> https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2020/09/01/nvidia-ceo-geforce-rtx-30-series-gpus/ <comment><USER3> I love a small feature he mentioned in the video: Monitors with built-in latency measurement. You plug your mouse into the USB ports on the monitor and it tells you how long it takes the image to change after you move the mouse. Brilliant idea.

It's long overdue to have widely available metrics for latency in consumer tech. Many hardware/software setups have absurdly long latency for no good reason other than that it's difficult to measure. People underestimate the subconscious effects it has on your usage of technology.

I couldn't be happier that phone and monitor manufacturers are finally starting to compete on refresh rates >60 Hz. It's far more important than wide gamut or 8K.

<comment><USER4> That's because our operating systems treat user input as a soft real time problem when actually it should be a hard real time problem. That's why your window manager sometimes can be unresponsive. I've used a hard real time OS for a desktop for some years and the difference with consumer stuff was extreme. You get used to the computer _instantly_ doing what you tell it to do. None of these half second or longer delays between command and result. It's like magic.

<comment><USER5> This is one of the things I still miss about BeOS. On late 90s hardware, the OS wasn't quite hard real-time like QNX but the worst-latency latency was much better than Windows 10 or MacOS on the latest hardware, even in the presence of heavy resource contention — I remember simultaneously surfing the web, downloading video from a camcorder with a Firewire interface which did not buffer, and compiling Mozilla. The UI latency didn't change at all, and the DV transfer didn't drop a packet — everything else got throttled back as necessary, of course, but that meant that, say, GCC took longer to run rather than impacting what I was doing in the foreground.

<comment><USER6> Is it possible to do this with Linux? Giving the UI very high priority etc.

<comment><USER7> My 5 year old uses our first iPad which is over 10 years old now. The keyboard UI from then is still faster than my iPad pro keyboard UI because Steve Jobs valued the priority of that in the stack :)

<comment><USER8> I think Steve Jobs have the same latency sensitive condition as some of us do. Getting irritated when things aren't the speed they are suppose to be.

<comment><USER9> I have an old Panasonic "smart" TV with a daft animated but glacially slow UI.

You can tell the execs that approved that were probably impressed watching someone else demo it but probably never used it themselves.

Jobs would have spotted it was rubbish immediately.

<comment><USER10> OK so this is a partial tangent - but I have a washing machine that annoys the hell out of me for this exact same reason (I know washing machine UI is not a hot topic usually but it damn well should be!)

It has a dial on the front to choose settings. Potentially a great idea to skip quick to the one I want - BUT the damn thing can only detect 1 step of change about every half second. So if you fast-turn it 4 clicks, it still only moves one step. So you have to stand there, slowly turning it, click, click, click, click....

The dial is the biggest design feature on there. Massive. Right in the middle. Bright lights all around it. But they couldn't even be bothered to make it solve the one problem it was there to do.

<comment><USER11> I'm getting angry even reading about it.

It's the kind of thing that'd make you reject purchasing it if only you'd thought to have tested that specific bit of it before buying it.

<comment><USER10> I knew hacker news was the right place to share this story. Only here people would understand the pain I am in!

<comment><USER12> I am almost a day late... But yes.

Honestly, I wish that they would make appliances with physical controls as opposed to digital. At least those are easier to fix/mod on your own.

<comment><USER10> I always think that about modern SLR cameras. They took a series of brilliant, instantly accessible physical dials (around the lens for aperture, on the top for exposure) and replaced them with menus and buttons on a tiny screen. WHY? How is that progress?

I think if someone did a kickstarter for a very simple physical buttoned digital camera it would do very well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Wow, I wasn't planning on upgrading from a 1080 (non-Ti) but the 3080 is so good and priced so well, I probably will. I just ordered a 240 Hz 1440p IPS monitor and I wasn't planning to hit 240 Hz, but this makes it so easy I might as well.

My day job is primarily ML as well, so I might just go for the 3090. 24 GB of memory is a game changer for what I can do locally. I really just wish Nvidia would get its shit together with Linux drivers. Ubuntu has done some great work making things easier and just work, but having them directly in the kernel would be so much nicer.

One thing I'm curious about is the RTX IO feature. The slide said it supports DirectStorage for Windows, but is there an equivalent to this for Linux? I'm hoping someone with a little more insight or an Nvidia employee may have some more information.

<comment><USER14> Don't buy it yet, usually oem versions are more optimised and better value overall.

But i must say 3070 is really tempting for $500 for someone who is not looking to upgrade.

<comment><USER15> Now that the reference cards don't have the blower coolers they are a lot more tempting. I'd still wait for reviews to see how loud they are though.

Up to now, OEM/AIC/AIB cards had quieter cooling systems, but they also make you pay for the silly graphics, the RGB, etc. I don't think the overclocking ability is really that much better. A quiet reference design with a non-blower cooler and a good warranty is what I've always wanted.

<comment><USER16> Yeah, NVIDIA makes blower again. RTX 2000 FE lacks blower design.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> A small thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet, but these cards have native hardware decoding for AV1. With chrome just launching support for AVIF this last week it seems like more and more platforms are getting out of the box support for it. Nvidia is also working with a lot of partners[1] on it it seems. I'm currently working on a social video platform, and having a unified next-gen codec that works everywhere for both images and video would be SO helpful. Hopefully this trend progresses - would love to be able to do some extremely high quality streaming.

[1] [https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-30-series- av1-...](https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-30-series- av1-decoding/)

<comment><USER18> I'm most interested in when we get hardware encoding for AV1. Encoding is painfully slow right now unless on the low settings.

<comment><USER19> There's not a ton of money in that since most people who would need fast encoding are streaming, and those folks already used capture cards or secondary PCs to record.

<comment><USER18> It would be super useful if it could be done on mobile SoCs. Realtime AV1 encoding on mobile phones would be huge. But even if you don't care about speed, AV1 encoding is still painfully slow. Encoding an hour of video can take over a day on a modern cpu.

<comment><USER20> I'm surprised there's no solutions using mobile phones, which usually have a SoC with hardware encoding for h264 at 4k.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> It's interesting the effect new graphics have on how old graphics are seen. I remember when Resident Evil came out on the first Playstation, at the time, I considered certain game elements like fire and water indistinguishable from reality. Now it looks like pixelated garbage and I ask myself how I could have ever thought that.

<comment><USER22> Oh man - the same here with me - when I first got Morrowind there was an option you could enable in ATI (now AMD) cards at the time that made water look "real". I was able to enable that and was blown away - I was like "well that's it - doesn't get any more real than this". Having loaded Morrowind recently I could not believe had bad it looked lol. Makes me wonder - what are we "not" seeing right now that will make us think this way 10-20 years from now?

<comment><USER23> Hm. Many people here share their sentiments of perceiving older games (or current games) as being close to photorealistic. Personally it never felt that way to me. All games have obvious problems where they don't behave/look anywhere close to reality. If you remove the interactive element and only use somewhat massaged screenshots, then, sure certain elements are basically photorealistic and have been for a while. For example, landscapes look pretty darn realistic. Anything alive or even most man-made artefacts, not so much.

Apart from graphics most stuff in games is pretty rough. Animations are generally bad and ways before reaching the uncanny valley of "getting close"; they're still in the "abstract representation of concept" detail level. AI is dumb (largely for [perceived] player-acceptance reasons). Sound is generally poor; some games still don't use 3D sound. Physics are "abstract representation" level again, some games still have fly-through walls and vibrating items. etc. etc.

<comment><USER24> Yeah... these comments are kinda weird. Hate to say it but maybe they should go outside more lol, computer graphics always looked pretty bad at me, even the clips in today's nvidia presentation looks really unnatural. That's not to take anything away from the technology and the massive advances it represents, just compared to reality it's still really far from fooling a human brain.

<comment><USER25> interestingly many of us feel that there's a huge gap between the past and now. But how many of us can actually verbalize what will change in the rendering of pictures in, say 3 years.

For example, I can clearly see that ray tracing produces better results. But it's a bit harder to tell how better it is, to find the words that describes how better it is. Of course, one can say that, for example, photon tracing is more physically accurate. But still, what words can we use to describe how real (or not real) a still image is ("more realistic" doesn't count :-))

<comment><USER26> Game graphics look sterile, too clean, sharp, plasticky. The real world is messier with less clear separation between objects, things blend together more, subtle shadows, surfaces are less uniform, there is more clutter, dirt, wrinkles, details.

<comment><USER27> Is that an artifact of the graphics capability? Or the art style? I think the two often get confused and many games are specifically designed for a sterile/clean look.

<comment><USER26> Not sure. It's hard to analyze as it's more of a visceral impression. It could be in part the way natural environments tend to structure themselves over time, like how we throw our stuff around in natural ways.

But also, the design often adapts to the capabilities. Games like GTA3 used to have thick fog just to hide the fact that they couldn't render stuff far away in time. You can say that's an artistic choice to give a smoggy big city atmosphere, but clearly it was a practical choice as well. Even today, game designers like to make things dark, blurry and rainy, so that the un-realism becomes less obvious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> * RTX 3070, 499$, faster than RTX 2080 Ti

* RTX 3080, 699$, 2x faster than RTX 2080

* RTX 3090 (Titan), 1500$, 1.5x faster than RTX Titan, 8k resolution @ 60 FPS with RTX on Control.

\---

I hope that if somebody bought an RTX 2080 or similar in the last 2-4 weeks, that they bought it over Amazon, and can return it.

<comment><USER29> As always, wait for the benchmarks before deciding to buy (or return). My guess is the performance improvements are the biggest for raytracing, which I personally don't care for. And let's not forget the huge power draw, requiring a new power connector and a 3 slot cooler.

8N manufacturing process is presumably Samsung, which will probably be beat by TSMC 7nm.

I'm holding out for RDNA2.

<comment><USER28> > As always, wait for the benchmarks before deciding to buy (or return).

Why would you keep a 1200$ RTX 2080 Ti or a 2500$ Titan when you can get at least the same perf for 50-75% of the price with the new products, and much better RTX perf ?

This assumes that with RTX off the new gen won't be slower than the old one, but I think that's a fair assumption, and if it isn't, you can always return the 30xx card in 2 weeks, and buy an used 2080 Ti or Titan on ebay for pennies, once the market overflows from people upgrading for the 30xx series.

People were still asking for 900$ for a used 2080 Ti on ebay this morning, and the 3080 700$ price just destroys that offer. Many owners are going to try and dump these cards for as much as they can get in the next two weeks. I wouldn't buy a used 2080 Ti for more than 250$ today. In one month, these cards are going to sell used for 100-200$. If AMD can only match the 2080 Ti perf, they are going to have a very hard time pricing against the used 2080 Ti market.

> And let's not forget the huge power draw, requiring a new power connector > and a 3 slot cooler.

That's only for the 3090 IIUC. All other cards were announced as being actually much smaller than the 20xx series ones.

<comment><USER29> True, the new generation offers better price/performance vs the previous generation.

Do note that the 3080 is still 2 weeks away (17 sept), 3090 24 sept, 3070 in October.

I would consider getting a non-founders edition though, in the past other brands have had better/more silent cooling for pretty much identical pricing.

Edit: While the 3090 (350W) is the only one requiring a 3 slot cooler, all 3 use the new 12 pin power connector. The 3080 founder edition power draw is still 320W, vs 220W for the 2080.

<comment><USER30> The 12 pin connector has an adapter for two 8pin cables. This is a non issue unless the connector just bothers you for some weird reason.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> All this on Samsung 8nm (~61 MT/mm2). They didn't even feel the need to use TSMC 7nm (~100 MT/mm2). Probably keep the price down and to reserve capacity at TSMC for the A100.

This is like the anime hero/villain (depending on your perspective) equivalent of fighting at half power.

<comment><USER32> >They didn't even feel the need to use TSMC 7nm

They just couldn't get enough wafers. They tried to force TSMC to lower the prices and it backfired.

<comment><USER33> How did it backfire?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> We changed from [https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/special- event/?nvid=nv-...](https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/special- event/?nvid=nv-int-gfhm-55882#cid=_nv-int-gfhm_en-us), which is a video of (what looks like) the same material.

Some of the comments in this thread are about things people saw in the video (spatulas?), so keep that context in mind.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah I posted the live announcement video and only found the static launch page a few minutes after that. Apologies :)

<comment><USER34> No worries!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> The 20xx series was very obviously the "tech development" release and was a terrible value. It was first gen ray tracing and thus actually unequipped to fulfill its promises. The 30xx series looks to be much better and is probably finally worth the upgrade from 9xx and 10xx equipment.

<comment><USER36> Generally new feature leaps - it is the second release that meets expectations of the initial feature release.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> The pricing is insane. $499 for a card that beats the 2080ti?

<comment><AUTHOR> And to think I was just about to buy a $400 2060 Super. I don't think I'll be doing that anymore.

<comment><USER38> I recently got a 2070 super OC. It really struggles with, say, COD:MW at near 4k Res (3440x1440). Indeed the campaign with RT on doesn't get more than ~50fps. Kinda disappointed really. Get about 100fps in multiplayer with everything turned off/low.

But the cost of a 2080ti was ridiculous especially considering the open secret of its impending obsolescence.

AMD really need to up their marketing budget. From the zeitgeist I've no idea where their lineup sits comparatively. No wonder they only have 20% market share

<comment><USER39> AMD still don't offer a compelling product for the high-end, which Nvidia is taking full advantage of. AMD cards are the most economical on the market and have their own advantages but they're niche (Linux support is much better for example).

AMD got on top of Intel by creating hardware that delivers. Just a few years ago AMD CPUs were economical, but the performance was abysmal, especially in single-threaded applications by comparison. They didn't make a product for the high-end.

I am eagerly awaiting what the next series of AMD cards are going to be able to do. They're talking a big game for sure. But Nvidia has a big software advantage as well as a hardware advantage on AMD and that's likely to be a sticking point for me personally on my next purchase. Nvidia spends a lot of resources on working closely with developers and providing them support they need to take better advantage of the hardware with nvidia-specific features. AMD doesn't seem to do the same, and has had much higher profile issues with their drivers in my experience.

All that said, I hope AMD can provide a product to truly compete at the high- end with Nvidia, to hopefully drive prices down as GPU prices have gone up dramatically on the high end.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Here's the static launch page if anyone's interested:

[https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics- cards/30-serie...](https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics- cards/30-series/?nvid=nv-int-cwmfg-49069#cid=_nv-int-cwmfg_en-us)

<comment><USER40> Thanks! Most importantly: "Available on September 17th"

<comment><USER41> That's for the 3080, the 3090 is Sep 24th, and 3070 is "October", from lower down on that same page.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> It's going to be very interesting to see what AMD counter with. I don't think anyone was expecting pricing this aggressive.

Competition is great!

<comment><USER43> GPUs are still overpriced because of Nvidia's monopoly on high-end cards. The fact that we're so normalized to this after the 2xxx series is kind of sad. It's like praising Apple for a phone that's "only" $999.

<comment><USER44> Without competition from AMD, Intel had normalized quad core chips for $800 on the high end for over 10 years.

<comment><USER45> >Intel had normalized quad core chips for $800 on the high end for over 10 years.

What are you talking about? The i7-3770K (top of the line 4-core chip in 2012) sold for ~$330.

<comment><USER46> I assume you meant desktop only, because the top of line 4 core chip of 2012 was the Xeon E3 1290v2 which sold for almost $900

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> It was behind the exorbitant number of spatulas the whole time!

<comment><USER48> Why does he have so many?

<comment><USER49> Clearly he went to to the great sale they had at Spatula City.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NCmDvrECS8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NCmDvrECS8)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> I have some CUDA code that I need to run as fast as possible, so if I was going to blow $1500, my use case would imply that I should go with two 3080s.

However, I also play around with deep learning stuff, expect to do so more in the future, but don't currently follow it so closely.

Would someone care to ponder on what difference they think a 24GB gpu vs a 10GB gpu will have as a tool for deep learning dev over the next 3 years?

For what it's worth, I'm a computer vision guy, but I did have a play with DeepSpeech earlier this year.

<comment><USER51> I'm fairly lay but imo GPT-3 demonstrates pretty soundly that huge models are no magic bullet- it's got >2x as many parameters as the human brain has neurons and it can't do long division. Dogs and other animals get by just fine having less than 1% as many neurons as humans.

Even a billion parameters is a _huge_ model, and a factor of 2.4x increase is not going to make a tremendous difference in your performance. In particular the data-heavy nature of vision stuff means that you'll be bottlenecked by training more than memory, AFAIK (again, lay).

<comment> i-am-curious This is a misleading comparison. You are comparing a massive model with huge models. What you should be comparing are big models vs medium models that a single consumer GPU will fit. And - you don't need to take my word for it, there's tons of papers - the bigger models definitely perform better.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> This might be an unpopular opinion, but is the new RTX 3070 at $499 and RTX 3080 at $699 really such good value?

Sure it's being marketed as 70-90% better performance at the same price but the value proposition is mainly in comparison to the Turing generation (20XX series) versus the Pascal generation (10XX series). For example of 3070, Nvidia moved the price anchor for the XX70 series from $379 to $499 so consumers are essentially paying for a XX80 card - and should expect XX80 performance. Nonetheless still impressive for the 70-90% performance gain, just perhaps not as much when price-adjusted.

On a separate note, I'm curious about how much of the performance gains is attributable to the node shrink (12nm to 8nm) vs. micro architecture vs. software optimization (e.g. DLSS 2.0 vs. 1.0).

<comment><USER36> > really such good value?

Depends upon how you measure value.

If you can get something better for the same money or a little more, then sure they are good value.

Even if you want something not as powerful or new, these will just send all the older card values down, so for that - these are great value.

Now if you was a TITAN buying type, the GTX3090 is definitely good value.

As for node shrink and how much is it a factor; Would need to factor in clock speeds and memory bandwidth, then need to compare exact comparable features. It's a muddy path. More so with the bigger gotcha that the 12nm node was TMSC and this 8nm node is Samsung, so hard to say, but over the months, reviews will have a good stab at it. Though for me, GamersNexus on YT would be the review I'd be looking for in the weeks ahead.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> 8K gaming is the ultimate gimmick. Even in the ideal conditions they set up for that demo, I'm doubtful those gamers have the ability to detect a significant improvement over 4K.

<comment><USER53> It's all about VR headsets

<comment><USER28> For VR 60 FPS is not enough, but maybe in the next generation with another 2x leap we'll have 120 FPS at 8k.

<comment><USER18> We are at the stage where nothing is enough for either fps or resolution. I use a vive original and its painfully blurry and thats 1080p per eye and a very low fov. For a high fov lens we will probably need 16k per eye at 144hz before people will consider it good enough like 4k for monitors is now. We don't even have the cables to push that much data currently, let alone render it.

I expect to reach this we will probably have to start using foverted rendering.

<comment><USER28> So the 3090 they announced is shown at 8k on 320 Hz monitors on the presentation. They are quite far still from 2*16k at 144 Hz.

I was surprised over the difference 320 Hz monitors make according to them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> Just compare how much Nvidia is pushing the limits as the industry of leader of GPU's, to how Intel seems to be playing catch-up reluctantly as the industry leader of CPU's. Leadership matters.

<comment><USER55> Nvidia isn't a fab. AMD isn't a fab. TSMC is the fab that beat Intel. TSMC's customers, like AMD and NVidia, are beneficiaries.

So far. As customers of TSMC, in the long term it behooves them for TSMC to have competition.

Further, "leadership matters" is a somewhat ironic complaint given that Intel ran face-first into a brick wall precisely because they were leading. TSMC placed conservative bets on the next node and Intel placed risky bets because they needed the extra risk/reward to maintain leadership. Intel's bets failed (in particular, cobalt wires and COAG). They chose "leadership or bust" and went "bust," at least for now.

<comment> i-am-curious This is such a simpleton take.

The whole reason AMD are able to crank out 128 core CPUs is the CCX architecture - the one people laughed at. No TSMC there. Not to mention other innovations like Infinity Fabric.

In ampere for instance, there are so many innovations, like PAM signalling, 2x shader instructions per clock, DLSS, RTX Voice.

TSMC beat Intel, sure, but that is not the main reason for why Nvidia and even AMD are leading the industry. In fact, ampere is on Samsung 8n.

<comment><USER56> I see you're new here ...

Just fyi, steer clear of the ad hominems. You can disagree with someone without calling them a simpleton.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> lachlan-sneff 3080 ($700) apparently has 238 teraflops of "tensor compute." We're frighteningly close to a petaflop of compute for less than a thousand usd.

<comment><USER57> That is FP16 (rounding up to FP32). It is not sufficient for most HPC compute. Good for ML/AI, at least.

<comment><USER58> For all but the AI/DL crowd the move away from high precision to high-power low precision is a bit sad.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Jensen Huang has a really baller stove.

<comment><USER60> That stove is an Aga and in the centre of his Aga is one of these RTX 30 GPUs. Keeps the whole house warm.

<comment><USER61> Then why does he need the leather jacket?

<comment><USER62> It's actually a full body oven mitt.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> If their performance claims are accurate, AMD has a huge hurdle ahead of it, as the rumour mill only had them drawing even with the 2080 ti with big navi.

<comment><USER64> The rumours I've heard have them beating the 2080Ti, but not enough to be competitive with the top Nvidia cards if these performance claims are accurate. Plus I'd guess Nvidia will launch a 3080Ti at ~$1000 sometime around the release of Big Navi.

<comment><USER28> Or they'll just move the 3070 and 3080 to 7nm TSMC to lower the price. Or both.

<comment><USER64> I've heard they don't have enough production reserved at TSMC to make consumer GPUs on TSMC 7nm and they are only going to use TSMC for Quadro. Plus Samsung is cheaper than TSMC.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> It's interesting that the 3090 is a replacement for the Titan. The $1500 price tag is a bit higher than expected but considering the Titan cost $2500 it doesn't seem too unreasonable.

<comment><AUTHOR> In terms of just nomenclature, I think I like the consistency of having all of the current lineup actually be called GeForce 30XX.

<comment><USER63> The supers/tis/titans will come to clutter it up next year or so.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> Interesting that this card has 8K capable HDMI 2.1 but not DisplayPort 2.0. Wonder when we start seeing DP 2.0 support in products, VESA said late 2020 in the press release.

<comment><USER67> Apologies if this question is super naive, but is there a good reason for ongoing development of _both_ HDMI and DP? At least for my use cases (home entertainment, and work computers) both seem roughly equivalent.

The devices I've bought recently have tended to support HDMI more than DP. So I got the impression that HDMI was "winning" and DP would fade away.

But now it seems like vendors are moving towards video-over-USB-C cables. And the "Alternate Mode protocol support matrix for USB-C cables and adapters" table in this article [0] seems to indicate that USB-C _cables_ have broader support for DP than HDMI. Which makes me wonder if vendors will converge on DP-protocol-over-USB-C-cable?

This makes me nostalgic for the relative simplicity of DVI.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C)

<comment><USER68> HDMI is all about DRM. USB-C is just one of many reasons DP hangs on. The ability to chain monitors is huge for digital signage and other display uses too. Let's hope both continue to be developed since for computing display port is far more useful and free of at least some of the DRM hell of HDMI.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> As much as I like to hate Nvidia for all of the right reasons, this is pretty big and might make me compromise my morals until AMD comes out with something that can compete.

</comment><comment><USER70> I find the naming conventions for computer parts utterly confusing. I'm looking to step away from Apple and do my first (AMD) PC build. Need to find a good overview to read through.

<comment><USER71> 3080

30 <\- represents the generation, previously it was 20,eg RTX 2080

80 <\- represents power within the generation, an 80 is near the top

Higher generation means newer. Higher number means more powerful within that generation. To compare across generations, you need benchmarks.

<comment><USER72> nVidia has the most sane naming convention.

Sure beats AMD. Is an RX Vega better than an RX 570? What about an RX 5700?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> Still no proper Wayland support?

I mean, I get that the primary market runs Windows. But some people like to dual-boot.

<comment><USER74> Why do I need Wayland? Xorg works just fine. Actually better than fine, since you can actually run a wide variety of window managers without having to resort to xwayland

<comment><USER75> xorg is a security nightmare. Also, wayland itself works as well (even better performance wise), it just takes time for all the applications to catch up and enable it as a backend.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER76> All these crazy graphics cards, they still couldn't figure out high density VR displays. I want amazing VR with super clarity. Then I'd invest whatever money they want for a graphics card. LCD gaming just doesn't cut it.

<comment><USER77> It's not that they can't figure out high density VR displays, it's that they're prohibitively expensive to produce. Display miniturisation is not a problem domain that a lot of tech is focused on, so progress is necessarily slower than the more profitable areas.

</comment></comment><comment><USER78> The pricing seems very good. Our company write a lot of CUDA code, mostly for real-time audio processing. It's amazing how much performance you can get with a desktop PC these days. These really are Supercomputers on a card.

</comment><comment><USER54> These look great! It's amazing how much better hardware gets annually. The only thing I was hoping for that wasn't mentioned was hardware-accelerated VP9 encoding, but we can't get everything we want in life.

<comment><USER79> If we were to imagine that VP9 hardware encoding by Nvidia would hold the same standard as their H.265 hardware encoding then we can stop holding our breaths, as we have not missed out on anything of any value what so ever.

For H.265 their encoder is fast, yes, but the quality per bitrate is complete rubbish, requiring higher bitrate than a good H.264 encode yet still contrives the gruesome trick of looking far worse, which entirely offsets all and any point with H.265.

<comment><USER54> Oh interesting, I didn't know the Nvidia encoder was regarded as trash. What tools can one I use to evaluate visual quality of a video file? My proxy for quality has always been bitrate, but I know that bitrate is just chasing visuak quality anyways...

<comment><USER16> SSIM is popular but now VMAF is considered good index.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER80> It's worrying to see GPU cooling system dumping the heat directly onto the CPU, RAM and motherboard components. That's the only thing that left me skeptical after watching the presentation.

<comment><USER81> What do you mean? The fan design is pretty standard. Either way it won't matter, as hot air should be extracted from the case, it's not gonna meaningfully change the temp on anything it hits.

<comment><USER80> The back fan flows the air through a hole in the GPU, past the thermal tubes and carries the hot air above the GPU to the upper part of the motherboard. Which is not in any way a standard design with the hot air going directly outside the PC case.

[https://youtu.be/ALEXVtnNEwA?t=3283](https://youtu.be/ALEXVtnNEwA?t=3283)

<comment><USER81> The non standard part is pushing hot air out of the back of the gpu itself - "dumping the heat directly onto the CPU, RAM and motherboard components" to be extracted by the system fan is what every existing design does...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER82> Very impressive. I predict that they'll be (more or less) sold out at least until 2021 at the very least.

<comment><USER83> I'm glad the 3080 is launching first so I can try getting one of those and if they are sold out I have time to think about whether I want to try dropping more than twice as much on a 3090 instead.

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> Question: what is the sentiment around how this may affect pricing of the non- consumer cards? There was already a disparity, but the gap is now indecent - something like a T4 looks to be worse than a 3090 and more than double the price on basic specs (understanding there are some elements designed specifically for server environments). Is there any potential nVidia will have to shift on these prices or do we have to wait for a next generation of those before we can expect more affordable data center GPUs?

</comment><comment><USER85> Not sure it was mentioned so far, but the reference to photon instead of electron at the end of the presentation could point to future photonic GPU ? [https://www.anandtech.com/show/16010/hot-chips-2020-live- blo...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/16010/hot-chips-2020-live-blog-silicon- photonics-for-ai-600pm-pt)

<comment><USER86> I think it's more likely a reference that long distance high speed communication is done via photons not electrons.

</comment></comment><comment><USER87> NVIDIA, can you please make my GTX 1070 not to tear a screen when I'm scrolling a web-page in a browser in GNU/Linux?

<comment><USER88> Try switching to Wayland.

</comment></comment><comment><USER89> I got a 2080-Ti last year and I have yet to really run into a situation where I couldn't play a modern game, at 4K, with almost everything set to max (but I also don't game over 60fps).

I'm sure this will really push those 4k/120Hz displays, but I doubt the average/causal gamer will really care about this series for a few years.

<comment><USER86> From a fellow 2080 Ti owner this kind of statement that you can max things out without issue is usually true with the latest flagship but falls apart once the next generation comes out and provides a higher max performance envelope for settings to target.

Expect the games demoed in the event due to come out soon (cyperpunk, cod, etc) to not play as well when maxed out as those that were released while the 2080 Ti was the flagship.

</comment></comment><comment><USER90> I am curious how quickly Nvidia will add these to their GeForce Now streaming servers. As of right now, they only stream in 1080p and it seems this could allow them to stream 4k for about the same hardware cost. I'm personally not in the market for a gaming desktop, but happily subscribe to GPU as a service.

<comment><USER91> GFN has been a bear, very hit or miss. Current generation of hardware is either 1080 or 2060. If they start adding 30xx (which they have hinted at in this past) that would be great.

</comment></comment><comment><USER92> Can anyone think of cases where the GPU/Processor unveiled by the maker wasn't actually what they said it was once it is run in real use-cases?

It always felt to me that something similar to the car's gas emissions scandal is just waiting to happen in this industry.

<comment><USER93> The FX series was pretty bad and around the same time AMD's X cards (eg X700) would burn out within a year if you gamed on them, but not fail. The FPS would slowly lower over time. This was due to a lack of a fan inside of the case.

</comment></comment><comment><USER94> The 3080 is '2x faster than the RTX 2080', which was roughly on par with a 1080TI (it had advantages, of course, RTX among them).

3 Generations newer with only a 2x speedup feels like a much smaller leap than the prior generations.

<comment><USER95> I missed a step here. How is the 3080 3 generations newer than either the 2080 or the 1080Ti?

<comment><USER94> 1080ti -> 20xx -> 20xx ti -> 30xx

There were also the 16xx cards.

I'm being downvoted for this.

10xx

16xx

20xx

30xx

That's 3 gens difference.

<comment><USER95> Ah. It seems unreasonable to me to consider the 2080 and 2080Ti as different generations when they were released at the same time. Also I think we should factor that the 3080 at $700 costs _half_ what I paid for a 2080Ti in December (The ASUS RoG Strix, a premium 3-fan model, was going for like $1400 before it was discontinued). By NVidia prices, the 3090 is the true price successor to the 2080Ti.

<comment><USER94> You're right, I shouldn't likely be distinguishing the Ti series (although it is usually a 'toc' generation, like the just announced gen, as Ti variants were not announced).

But that does leave the 16xx generation which was released wholly on its own, in its own year.

<comment><USER96> 16xx series is just lower end 20xx.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Comparing 3080/3070, 3080 is 146% greater TFLOPS than 3070 and VRAM capacity and speed is different. Meanwhile 2080/2070 was 135% greater TFLOPS in same MSRP with 3080/3070\. 3080 looks very competitive.

</comment><comment><USER97> I'm waiting for RDNA 2 cards from AMD.

<comment><USER98> I'm waiting for AMD to show their hand, but this is a very strong first strike from nvidia.

<comment><USER97> Sure, if the bold 2x performance increase claim is to be believed. I'd wait for benchmarks to validate that.

Plus for me, Nvidia is simply DOA on Linux, due them refusing to upstream their driver and hindering Nouveau to reclock properly. So even if AMD won't outdo them, I still won't touch Nvidia.

<comment><USER98> Never had an issue using the proprietary driver on linux, myself.

I know, I know, it would be nice to have a proper FOSS driver, and better for integration, updates etc. But it does work fine, IMHO.

<comment><USER97> Depends, it works for cases Nvidia care about. But what you call integration means all other cases :) And there it simply falls apart or takes decades to be fixed.

<comment><USER98> In linux as long as I can get XFCE going, all thw screens at the right res and scling levela, and the cuda drivers working, I'm generally happy :)

I'm probably pretty easy to please :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER99> I'm guessing that this puts PCs ahead of unreleased PS5 and the new Xbox. I'll wait for the budget model to be released here in two years. Good stuff.

</comment><comment><USER100> I find it nuts that those streamers called the game "smooth as butter" at 60 fps. Even if it was 8K, there is no way 60 fps could feel smooth.

<comment><USER74> Yeah, having made the jump to 144hz g-sync, fixed 60fps looks hilariously bad.

Though my 13 year old self eeking out 20-30 fps playing bf2142 would probably disagree.

</comment></comment><comment><USER101> I just want to see an OCL-Hashcat bench of the 3090 :)

</comment><comment><USER102> This looks reassuring. After the first couple rumors/teasers, especially regarding power consumption, I feared that NVIDIA mostly just sat on their hands and would just release something that's mostly a bigger version (more execution units, ram) of the current Gen. I think they did that once some years ago. Seems they actually did improve on the technical level too for 30xx. :-)

</comment><comment><USER37> The 3080 requires a 750W PSU, while the 3070 only requires 650W. Given I have a 650W, that might tip the scale for me.

<comment><USER103> These numbers never meant anything. I run a 1050Ti on a 200W PSU - <USER2> recommends 450W minimum. Add the TDP of your GPU, CPU and add about 100W for accessories = what you actually need. Nvidia recommends a much more powerful PSU than needed just in case.

<comment><USER104> I feel like this used to be more true in the past. These days CPUs can exceed their official TDP by quite a large margin, and while in theory they should only do so temporarily, many motherboards default to unlimited boost clocks. (Then again, perhaps you're never going to fully utilize both CPU and GPU at the same time...)

<comment><USER103> That is correct. Nowadays a 75W TDP Intel CPU can use as much as 200W for short bursts. That wasn't the case in the past. However, it should still be possible to find out that maximum draw value for many motherboards and pick a PSU accordingly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER105> Any news about that open source thing they promised to unveil this year? Or they lied as usual?

</comment><comment><USER106> Well my 2080TI still runs Factorio without issues so I suppose I don't need to upgrade

<comment><USER107> Ya, but we'll know, and more importantly, you'll know. Go ahead and upgrade.

</comment></comment><comment><USER108> What's the expected delay between reference card release and OEM card release?

<comment><USER109> 2-4 weeks

</comment></comment><comment><USER110> Jensen's stovetop is the billionaire'a equivalent of a tricked-out RGB setup.

</comment><comment><USER111> I wonder about the ML performance compared to my current setup of 2080TIs.

</comment><comment><USER112> As someone who runs data models at home in addition to 3D rendering, 3090 is a must buy for me. I imagine it will be sold out within minutes and supply will be an issue for months.

</comment><comment><USER113> Would this be able to drive a Pro Display XDR? (From Windows.)

</comment><comment><USER114> Very cool. I'm wondering about whether RTX 30 Series cards are compatible (interfaces, form factor, etc.) with Quadro RTX 8000. Thoughts?

<comment><USER114> Replying to myself. Still not sure about the form factor, but, unfortunately, it looks like the RTX 30 Series cards - well, at least, RTX 3090 - have a different socket interface when compared to 2080 Ti (12 pins versus 8+6 pins).

</comment></comment><comment><USER115> 10,496 cores on the 3090. That's just insane.

</comment><comment><USER116> How many studios are even going to produce art assets at the level of fidelity that 8K provides? These installs are going to be huge.

<comment><USER72> Higher resolutions IMO are not about the models themselves, but the edges of them.

A character model can look decent in 1080p, but the edges of the model in front of the background will be jaggy. Various anti-aliasing techniques can only do so much.

Besides, I know I'm more interested in higher frame rates. I'd rather do 1440p @ 144 hz than 4K @ 60 hz.

And I don't think there are even any 8K monitors out yet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER117> I am trying to build a deep learning workstation. How likely do you think Nvidia will roll out RTX 3090 Ti or RTX 3080 Ti?

</comment><comment><USER118> Problem with AMD is their drivers, nowdays drivers are 50% of what makes a good graphic card.

</comment><comment><USER119> I wonder if the pricing will drop once AMD releases their ray-tracing PC GPUs.

</comment><comment><USER120> When would the Quadro cards based on Ampere likely be released. Any ideas?

</comment><comment><USER121> I bought a 2080 like 2 weeks ago. Luckily EVGA has the step up program.

</comment><comment><USER122> So it seems that the 3090 will be priced at 1499$. This is kind of insane.

EDIT: For people comparing this to the Titan RTX, no. This GA102, not GA100. It's the cut-down version of Ampere. GA100 will come out, and it will be even more expensive.

<comment><USER123> Virtually nobody needs a 3090, much less a gamer (let's be honest, though, many will buy one regardless). For the people that actually do need that horsepower, it's unbelievably cheap _for what you are getting._ You could have easily paid twice that a year ago for less.

<comment><USER124> > Virtually nobody needs a 3090, much less a gamer

I'm tempted to get one just to avoid having to think about upgrading a graphics card for another 10 years. Plus I can do some ML messing about as well for resume-driven development.

<comment><USER125> Cheaper and better to get three $500 GPUs every three years.

<comment><USER124> Best I can get for $500 now (~£377) is an 8GB GTX2060 - 5x fewer cores, 1/3rd the RAM, 2/3rd the memory bandwidth of the GTX3090 which is £1399. Plus I really don't want to upgrade my PC again for at least 5 years - just done that and been reminded of why I hate it.

<comment><USER122> Maybe you should spend 500 pounds and get a 2070 super?

<comment><USER124> But then I'm getting even closer to the GTX3090 price!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER126> Guess I'm not keeping my 2070 super for long then

<comment><USER106> To be fair most games run great on any RTX card. What are you playing that would benefit an upgrade?

<comment><USER74> If you want 144hz, even a RTX 2080 Ti can't hit it on 1440p on max with most games. I have a 2080S and I'm pretty disappointed with the performance, especially with Ray tracing on.

For example, RDR2 runs at around 50-60fps on ultra on my rig. Very disappointing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER127> did they leave out the price of the 3090 in the article or did I somehow miss it? All I see is the 3070 and 3080 prices.

<comment><USER128> It's $1500

</comment></comment><comment><USER129> so are they definitely dropping the 250$ demographic using the rtx excuse to forever up the entry level price?

</comment><comment><USER130> That looks good!!! Can we upload already?

</comment><comment><USER131> dude has a lot of spatulas at his house!

</comment><comment><USER132> That is an alarming number of spatulas.

</comment><comment><USER133> It looks really huge.

</comment><comment><USER134> He sure likes his silicone spatulas.

</comment><comment><USER135> But can it play Crysis?

</comment><comment><USER136> I have a GTX 970 that I bought for $379 in 2015. Does Nvidia make flagship GPUs in this price point still?

<comment><USER137> Unfortunately not since Nvidia has had such a monopoly on the high-end GPU market.

Interestingly enough, it looks like the $379 in 2015 dollars worth $415 in today's dollars which makes the $500 for the 3070 seem slightly less shitty. I didn't expect the cumulative inflation to be 9% since then..</comment></comment>