Android Studio 4.0 - <AUTHOR> https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/05/android-studio-4.html <comment><USER2> Did they build a real simulator yet, like iOS? Note, not an emulator, which does hardware stuff. A simulator, so we don't have to use up our entire machine to run another operating system just to run a java app.

Or finally fix the activities and fragment mess?

<comment><USER3> I'm on the emulator team; we've considered this route before, but the hard part about maintaining a simulator is that the contact surface with the host OS is much larger, making it so that we would essentially have to port the current year's version of Android, with all java/C userspace APIs, to all wanted host OSes. This would require much greater resources dedicated to this porting than we're able to handle, and/or we'd need to make the hard choice of only maintaining certain Android versions and skipping certain ones completely. It would also be very difficult to maintain fidelity.

With full virtualization, the contact surface is restricted to a few low level bits in the kernel along with a few HALs/drivers that need to talk to the host for meaningful/fast I/O, like input/network/graphics, and everything else can be kept stock with no modification. This allows us to ship largely the same binaries that would go on a dedicated Android device and have it be able to run on windows/macos/linux easily, and it's how we've been able to keep up with the pace of yearly Android releases.

Edit: Oh and note that we are totally aware of and bummed out by emulator's increasing resource usage as android version bumps up, to the point we're afraid that the next one will finally be the one that really needs all resources of a modern PC; as such, we're looking into ways to minimize the cpu/ram/disk footprint of the system images, keeping only the bits that are actually needed for testing apps (with Google Play Services, and being better at maintaining/promoting more stock AOSP images in the case where GMS isn't needed)

<comment><USER4> Have you thought about streaming emulators from the cloud? I know it sounds crazy but if we can stream games, why not android emulator?

<comment><USER5> We're doing just that at [https://testingbot.com](https://testingbot.com) : stream android emulators and even physical devices. You can control these through your own browser.

<comment><USER6> I'm very interested in this. I usually run into crashes in production on specific devices that I don't own. It would be nice to be able to reproduce them on a virtual device. FYI, the site is not loading atm.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm still amazed and somewhat annoyed by the filesize of Android Studio. And as you keep adding simulators and what not (which inevitably happens), before you know it, Android Studio occupies 20% of your entire disk space.

<comment><USER8> Same thing goes for Xcode.

<comment><USER9> Same for Visual Studio (the full one, not VSCode). I think this just the nature of these giant IDEs that let you target multiple OS versions: if you want to faithfully target/simulate multiple operating systems, you need both the OS binaries and the platform libraries for each of them. As the saying goes, couple gigs here, a couple gigs there, and soon you're talking about real disk space.

<comment><USER10> Check out Zig: in less than 50 MB, it supports cross-compiling on any major os/arch for any other major os/arch, and it compiles most plain C code, and it includes libc headers for linux/mac/windows.

[https://ziglang.org/download/](https://ziglang.org/download/) [https://ziglang.org/#Cross-compiling-is-a-first-class-use- ca...](https://ziglang.org/#Cross-compiling-is-a-first-class-use-case)

50 million bytes is really a lot of bytes, it's just that everyone has become accustomed to orders-of-magnitude bloat, and doesn't realize the 100x duplication and inefficiency which sneaks into just about every part of computing where it can get away with it.

<comment><USER11> Zig is just a language compiler, isn't it? It is comparable to clang, gcc, or Visual C++ compiler. Why are you comparing it with a fully featured IDE?

<comment><USER10> ... because it was claimed that the IDEs are many gigabytes because they "let you target multiple OS versions". Well, you can get the required essence for targeting multiple operating systems and architectures in 50 MB. If a "proper IDE" for a single OS/arch/platform is 500 MB, then one for "multiple" could be about 550 MB. So how does it get up to 5 GB or more? Convenience and junk.

<comment><USER12> Just because Zig can compile for multiple platforms, doesn't mean it can target those platforms like those IDEs could.

For example, with Visual Studio, a large part of the installation footprint are the various SDKs you need to actually build a realistic Windows application (that interacts with the OS, maybe does some COM stuff, brings up a GUI, uses networking..etc) There are also multiple versions of these SDKs, especially the Windows SDKs. Visual Studio also supports a lot of languages, and for some of these languages, there is support going back to very old versions and tech stacks. You can still build Windows XP compatible applications in modern Visual Studio versions.

Can Zig talk to COM? Can it set up a DXGI swap chain? Can I pop up notification toasts as simple as calling one function? How do you package Zig apps for the Microsoft Store?

So yes, you can compile Zig programs for multiple platforms, and these can run on those platforms. But once you start getting into actually interacting with those platforms, you will need all those things you call convenience and junk. Libc is just a fraction of what you need to make applications for a platform.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> 1\. The selected Java SDK API desugaring, though limited, is much awaited. Little things like supporting `java.time` up until API Level 14 make it less painful, don't have to end up using Joda Time even though it officially is not developed anymore.

2\. Good to see Google focus on animations finally

3\. The CPU profiler looks amazing

The transition to androidx has been slow and painful. But overall Android dev experience is improving consistently

<comment><USER14> Mostly [source needed] people use(d) [https://github.com/JakeWharton/ThreeTenABP](https://github.com/JakeWharton/ThreeTenABP) used for this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I miss doing my designs visually, I used storyboards again for a demo app and getting the layout working for all screen sizes just worked once I got the layout right in interface builder.

With coded constraints you need to do that change code / restart cycle, especially with more complex layouts and SwiftUI isn't there yet.

Those motion guides look like what Flash used to have, dearly missed.

<comment><USER16> I don't miss many things about Flash / Actionscript but boy do i miss that development GUI.

Sure, HTML 5 can do everything Flash can do but there is nothing even close to that envioronment for making interactive animation and full games.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> > Clangd support for C++

That's interesting, how common is it to write C++ for Android applications, and with Android Studio? I'm not that informed regarding android stuff but I understood that the native development kit wasn't really that well maintained, making C++ an 2nd class citizen when compared to Java (and maybe Kotlin?).

I would guess it's mostly used for games?

<comment><USER18> C/C++ is only the only choice for cross platform business logic between windows/ios/android/macos.

<comment><USER19> You can also use Rust (and some big companies are - Cloudflare is shipping Rust on Android/iOS for their warp VPN, and Dropbox uses it in their desktop sync client (not sure if the same code is also used on mobile)).

<comment><USER20> Very interesting. Do you have any sources for people targeting Android with Rust?

<comment><USER19> \- [https://github.com/cloudflare/boringtun](https://github.com/cloudflare/boringtun)

\- [https://blog.cloudflare.com/warp-technical- challenges/](https://blog.cloudflare.com/warp-technical-challenges/)

\- [https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/8ygbvy/state_of_rust_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/8ygbvy/state_of_rust_for_iosandroid_on_2018/)

\- [https://medium.com/visly/rust-on- android-19f34a2fb43](https://medium.com/visly/rust-on-android-19f34a2fb43)

\- [https://medium.com/visly/rust-on- ios-39f799b3c1dd](https://medium.com/visly/rust-on-ios-39f799b3c1dd)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> It's really interesting to me that, in the end, we build interactive screens. Consider all the complexity it takes to build one of those for Android (or iOS), and what it takes to make a a screen for the browser. One requires a whole stack of big, complicated, brittle tools. The other can be achieved in a single html file.

<comment><USER21> You forget that web browsers are very complex programs running on operating systems which in turn also are complex programs.

If you can boot an entire operating system with a single html file, THAT would be impressive.

<comment><USER22> It really depends where you want to draw the line between the code which is part of the "OS" and the part that is the "app". The web platform puts as much as possible into the "OS", while android has far less, so the app has to include much more.

<comment><USER23> I'm not a defender of the "modern web" recursive dependencies approach to building js sites, but the one thing the web platform seems to do better than Android is let the developer focus more onto their own logic, rather than reimplementing basic boilerplate activities. Sadly I've never really found a "one layer higher" overlay for the Android APIs to let developers take advantage of good boilerplates by default - I'd rather not pretend I'll implement data loading from an array or db into a scroll view better than someone else that has thought it through and understands the platform, because I know I won't!

<comment><USER24> The "one layer higher" for Android is Jetpack: [https://developer.android.com/jetpack](https://developer.android.com/jetpack)

Eg for "I'd rather not pretend I'll implement data loading from an array or db into a scroll view better than someone else" that'd be the Paging library: [https://developer.android.com/topic/libraries/architecture/p...](https://developer.android.com/topic/libraries/architecture/paging)

<comment><USER23> I will take a look at Jetpack - it does sound promising as the "next layer up". I was hoping Flutter might try to fill this space - it feels to me that there's no inherent need for the "higher layer" to be platform specific, although there's probably an impetus for Google/Apple to make it so, from the perspective of ecosystem control, developer mindshare, and simply reducing effort to build and maintain.

At least skimming the docs and watching the introduction videos, it does sounds like JetPack might be what I'm looking for! Thanks

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I haven't touched Android development in... Maybe 7 years? And even then, wasn't really in the trenches. I have to imagine boat loads have changed since then.

If I wanted to poke around with some hobby projects, where would be the best place to start from scratch with all the best practices and development tools?

<comment><USER26> Download Android Studio,

read the kotlin koans (assuming you are not familiar with kotlin), they are the best way to get used to that language if you know java, and kotlin is much more pleasant to use than java

Best practices and tools might be harder, a LOT has changed in the past 7 years.

Maybe [https://github.com/ZacSweers/CatchUp](https://github.com/ZacSweers/CatchUp) as a sample ?

After that, it depends whether your hobby is to write an android app, or if the resulting product is hobby.

if it is the former, Compose is lots of fun and will be a big leap in android development. You can already use the dev version.

MVI has also deeply changed how I code Android apps. Again, maybe not needed for the level of complexity of an hobby app unless you want to toy with something different.

<comment><USER27> What is MVI?

<comment><USER28> MVI stands for Model-View-Intent. It's a state management pattern that uses unidirectional flow. Basically you send events (Intents, similar to Redux actions, not to be confused with the Android Intent class..) to your Model, which does a state update and sends out the updated state to the View.

<comment><USER27> Ah okay. Seems to be another name for Model View Update aka The Elm architecture aka Flux pattern.

<comment><USER26> I just skimmed [https://guide.elm- lang.org/architecture/buttons.html](https://guide.elm- lang.org/architecture/buttons.html) .

It does sound very familiar ! Yeah there is nothing new there (and MVI on Android having been heavily influenced by what's going on on other platforms is readily acknowledged).

It is newish (it has been there for several years now) as far as "trendy" Android architecture patterns go.

We started with a bad implementation of MVC for several reasons :

\- what Google ended with (which does not look like it fits what they initially intended, but I digress) with its god Activities has encouraged the community to go in that direction.

\- when Android was first released, the smartphones of the time were heavily CPU and memory constrained. The way applications were built was to best fit these constraints (sometimes in naive ways).

And again, I am not advocating for all problems to use MVI or that it is the one architecture to rule them all. Just something interesting that was very likely not in gp mind 7 years ago.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> > Java 8 language support update: APIs you can use regardless of your app's > minimum API level

Meanwhile in the real world, [https://jdk.java.net/14/release- notes](https://jdk.java.net/14/release-notes)

<comment><USER30> Has the Android world moved to Kotlin then?

<comment><USER31> Yes, Kotlin is preferred language now. Some new Google libraries are targeting Kotlin first. You should not use Java for new projects.

<comment><USER20> Kotlin is great, but if you're looking for max maintainability in the next ~10 years Java is better. It's just so much easier to hire for Java!

<comment><USER32> As an Android dev, I disregarded any company hiring that was not transitioning to Kotlin. It was a major red flag if the project was relatively new. My personal project on spring boot is completely powered by Kotlin and I fully expect KotlinJS to be ready for production in a year or so for full stack development.

Writing in Kotlin really is a nicer experience and with near full access to all the legacy java libraries I would never want to switch back even with the small improvements java has made to be more like Kotlin. I highly suspect as the number of java devs that are exposed to Kotlin increases the number of devs happy to write in Java over Kotlin (or Scala) will decrease. Android going Kotlin first was in part justified by giving the decision makers a short period of a week or two to get adjusted away from java and see how they felt about the language in comparison

<comment><USER20> I agree with everything you say, but that transition will take time. I think Kotlin is a great language, and combines a lot of the best strengths of others while not giving up that JVM tooling goodness. However, I think you still need to have good Java chops to work with Kotlin, at least to deal with those dependencies. In fact, its almost exactly the situation that TypeScript has: yes, its a good language, but you can't really use it well unless you know JavaScript (and in particular, ES6) really well. Edit: sorry, I'm really talking more generally than Android. You're probably right about hiring for Kotlin for Android instead of Java. But Kotlin is targeted at _everything_ , and for that I think it's probably good to wait a bit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> 3D layout reminds me of Firefox's 3D view, which I sorely miss. Wish they brought it back, but it seems unlikely.

<comment><USER34> I never understood why they remove it

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Is android studio same as having IntelliJ ultimate with android plugins? Is it a form of the community edition? Will I miss features getting into IntelliJ because it's a fork?

<comment><USER24> Android Studio has C++ & JNI support which IntelliJ Ultimate doesn't (you have to use Jetbrain's CLion instead for that), which is insanity.

In terms of Android features Android Studio is more than just the android plugins, but if you like the latter then go for it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Lots of improvements for the Gradle plugin, but no mention of Bazel?

<comment><USER37> Me and my team made that plugin. It initially came from the same org that makes Bazel (rather than the other way around), but I think there's now a small team in the Android org that support it.

Nevertheless, Gradle is currently much more popular than Bazel for Android development so it makes sense that this is where the focus is.

<comment><USER38> Do you know if any real, non-trivial Android apps are being built using only Bazel?

<comment><USER37> The majority of all Android apps produced by Google are, and I have worked on one myself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> What's the impact for Flutter devs?

<comment><USER40> Dart, and Flutter plugin aren't supported.

<comment><USER41> Flutter on studio 4 is working fine for me onlinux, just had to enable and upgrade the flutter and dart plugins, only tried on flutter master channel with linux and web devices.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> The new layout tools look great, I'm excited to try them. Especially the revamped Layout Inspector.

Also I noticed that the final 3.x minor release was much faster on my Mac than any of the others before it. I hope 4.0 keeps or improves the performance.

</comment><comment><USER43> What program did they use to do the SpeakerVideo-in-ScreenShare layout they used on the site ([https://youtu.be/f1fHPqAYj5I?t=292](https://youtu.be/f1fHPqAYj5I?t=292))

<comment><USER44> You could do that in basically any video editor that supports multiple layers and masks. Blender is an open source (3D) editor where you can do this with.

Most likely they are using one of/combination of: After Effects, Premiere Pro, DaVinci Resolve, iMovie and/or Final Cut Pro as those are the more standard tools in the industry.

<comment><USER45> I'm curious: Why would you use Blender for this? I consider it a 3-D modeling tool, not a video editor.

Then again, I just started using it. So far I'm pleasantly surprised at its UI. After using the detestable UI in GIMP (and the somewhat hokey-looking one in Audacity), I didn't expect much from open source.

<comment><USER44> > I'm curious: Why would you use Blender for this? I consider it a 3-D > modeling tool, not a video editor.

Because it has a nice video editor in it, that's useful for lots of things.

Might be hard to get into if you never used Blender before. But if you've done 3D modelling in Blender, you'll be pleasantly surprised that your intuition of how to move, scale and generally edit stuff works the same in the video editor as in the rest of Blender.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Android Studio is 1.28Gb memory right now on my MBP. I bet this is normal and is way more memory hog than the previous version.

</comment><comment><USER47> is there hw virtualization on amd processors yet?

<comment><USER3> Yes, you can use the new AMD Hypervisor or use Hyper-V/WHPX, depending on your needs:

[https://developer.android.com/studio/run/emulator- accelerati...](https://developer.android.com/studio/run/emulator- acceleration#choose-windows-hypervisor)

(Edit: On Linux, KVM for AMD should work already; this advice is for Windows hosts only)

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> The very first thing that crossed my mind while reading about the motion editor was: "here comes the Google's 'Macromedia Flash' for mobile".

<comment><USER49> doesn't make any sense, this is for adding animations to apps, not a proprietary format for distributing animated content

<comment><USER48> Yeah, but the animation editing resembles of the same thing done in MM Flash. And I haven't seen that in many many years. That's where the thought came from, not anything else.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> Cant wait for the snap to be updated.

</comment><comment><USER51> As Apple is (trying) to move away from a behemoth Xcode, Google is moving closer to their version of it.

<comment><USER52> How is Apple moving away from XCode?

<comment><USER53> The parent is maybe just thinking of a rumored iPadOS port.</comment></comment></comment>


Cheapest Fault-Tolerant Cluster for Deis V1 PaaS - <AUTHOR> https://deis.com/blog/2016/cheapest-fault-tolerant-cluster-deis/ <comment><AUTHOR> Starting at something like 3 and a half cents for an hour of cluster time with 5 nodes.</comment>


About the security content of iOS 9.3 - <AUTHOR> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206166 <comment><USER2> Waiting for the paper on this:

        Impact: An attacker who is able to bypass Apple's certificate pinning,
        intercept TLS connections, inject messages, and record encrypted attachment-
        type messages may be able to read attachments

        Description: A cryptographic issue was addressed by rejecting duplicate
        messages on the client.

        CVE-2016-1788 : Christina Garman, Matthew Green, Gabriel Kaptchuk, Ian Miers,
        and Michael Rushanan of Johns Hopkins University

<comment><USER3> The blog post (which includes link to the paper) has been submitted here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11332377](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11332377)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Hmm:

        CVE-2016-1752 : CESG
        CVE-2016-1750 : CESG

I wonder if that's <[https://www.cesg.gov.uk/>](https://www.cesg.gov.uk/>), which is "the Information Security Arm of GCHQ". If so I guess we should be thankful that they saw these vulnerabilities is a risk rather than an opportunity.

<comment><USER5> Government uses iPhones -> Government reports iPhone vulns.

<comment><USER6> And this is exactly the way it should work.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Apple's basically saying "Here are a bunch of bugs _that are not fixed in the version of the phone the FBI has_. You don't need us, or source code, or anything other than to hire someone to take advantage of these holes. Go away."

Nice timing.

Probably pissed off a bunch of the intelligence community today.

</comment><comment><USER8> So many memory corruption issues, I'd like to think in 5/10 years time this would be solved and everything written in a safe language but maybe I'm being optimistic.

<comment><USER9> Thats the same thing people said 10 years ago.

<comment><USER10> The people saying that 10 years ago were quite obviously being unrealistic. Holding such an opinion back then was essentially predicting that C++ would be replaced by Java, Python, etc.

Now, we've got languages like Rust that offer improved safety mechanisms without really sacrificing expressiveness or runtime performance the way "managed" languages do, so there's a real alternative for software that needs the highest performance or best battery life.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> "This issue was addressed through improved input validation." Valuable refresher for everyone.

</comment><comment><USER12> Is the big security roll up here due to external or internal scrutiny of iOS security spawned by the FBI inquiry perhaps?

<comment><USER13> Seems doubtful. The overwhelming majority of the CVEs have external reporters cited.

Instead, I expect iOS 10 and the fall hardware announcements are where we'll start seeing signs of any really big changes, e.g. an Apple push to seal itself (and government actors) completely away from customer data access.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Am I reading this wrong or does it not say which devices received fixes? Or is it not including which devices were affected?

<comment><USER15> The issues reports are OS level rather than device level. Every device that can run iOS 9 gains these fixes. Full list is at [https://www.apple.com/ios/whats- new/#compatibility](https://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/#compatibility) , but basically iPhone 4S+ / iPad2+.</comment></comment>


What Does the Mt. Gox Meltdown Mean for Bitcoin? Maybe Not Much - <AUTHOR> http://freakonomics.com/2014/02/25/what-does-the-mt-gox-meltdown-mean-for-bitcoin-maybe-not-much/

<comment><AUTHOR> Andreessen:

      In the early days of the Internet, you had various fly-by-night
      ISPs, some of them went out of business. You had various fly-by-night
      e-commerce operators, some of them went out of business.

...

      Mt. Gox has to fail in order for Bitcoin to go mainstream because
      Mt. Gox was never set up to be able to take Bitcoin mainstream,
      which is basically what's happening now. The good news is we have
      many new companies that are much more serious and much better run.</comment>


A Graphical OS for the Atari 8-bit computers - <AUTHOR> http://atari8.co.uk/gui/ <comment><USER2> One of my research areas is security or trust enhancements in compilation. Synthesis, too. Almost all of that work focuses on 32-64 bits due to limitations of lower ones. Yet, I keep seeing projects such as this and SymbOS that blow my mind in what can be done with so little hardware. I think the implementation techniques used in them probably contain plenty of wisdom that could lead to improvements in embedded compiler and metaprogramming research. Maybe even 32-64 bit systems in just making better usage of resources.

Need to have a whole collection of articles for implementing HLL constructs and algorithms effectively in 8-16 bit systems. Maybe 4bit while we're at it to give these 8-bit show-offs a challenge. ;)

EDIT: Editing to add the interesting link below I found on 4-bit computing courtesy of Wikipedia's article on 4-bit. Interesting part was how manufacturers brought offer to developers as invite only. Wonder if they've since transitioned to 8-bit.

[http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/12/10/consider...](http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/12/10/considerations- for-4-bit-processing/)

<comment><USER3> That sounds like an interesting subject. Could you please link me to your research or other relevant information?

<comment><USER2> I'll email you some of the work I've posted. Background is high assurance security engineering. Dealing with software lifecycle, compilers, etc are part of it. Meanwhile, I just posted an essay with references relevant to the topic you're interested in:

[https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/09/understanding...](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/09/understanding_s.html#c6705056)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting observation: Despite it's graphical resemblance to early Mac OS, preemptive multi-tasking actually makes this OS substantially more advanced.

<comment><USER5> With 30 years of additional development time, you'd expect some advances.

<comment><USER2> Haha yeah. This and SymbOS are what we might see in an alternative future if all the chip fabs announced: "Ok. We tried to scale. The physics were just impossible. You have to keep using the same hardware and just do more with it."

Much more interesting than I thought they'd be, though. :)

<comment><USER6> Another example is here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3-J2-VeoH8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3-J2-VeoH8) a port of wolfenstein 3d I wonder what people will be putting on raspberry pis in 30 years? :)

<comment><USER2> If they ported Wolf3d, that would be awesome. That was just a guy walking around in a Wolf3d room. Lamest vid ever. Is there one of them actually playing the game, sound FX, shooting bad guys, etc?

Nonetheless, the 8-bit stuff described here does make one wonder what people will do with raspberry pi's in 30 years. Might be really cool stuff. Two teams give me a hint at where it might go based on prior lightweight work:

[http://www.menuetos.net/](http://www.menuetos.net/)

[http://web.syllable.org/Syllable/index.html](http://web.syllable.org/Syllable/index.html)

They both run with limited hardware. Moving things like graphics and audio to dedicated hardware as many SOC's do today will only expand what you can do with minimal processors.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > _After a further six months of nagging doubts about the proprietary "window > mask" technology I had designed, I decided to take the plunge and do what > Jörn had suggested might lead to a considerable increase in rendering speed: > namely, to abandon the window masks (which, it turned out, might as well > have been called "regions"), and use a traditional dirty-rectangle window > management system, as used in SymbOS._

This is pretty funny when you recall regions were a key part of the original Macintosh system software — as described in "I Still Remember Regions":

[http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=I_Still_Remember_...](http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=I_Still_Remember_Regions.txt)

See also "Busy Being Born", currently on the front page:

[http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Busy_Being_Born.t...](http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Busy_Being_Born.txt)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10188952](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10188952)

</comment><comment><USER8> The site might be down right now...

Google text-only cache: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://atari8.co.uk/gui/&strip=1&vwsrc=0)

</comment><comment><USER9> I just started getting into programming on the 6809, which looks to have be designed by the same developers as the 6502. Wonder if in a few years I'll be able to do the same :)

Edit: I'm reminded of OS-9, but I don't believe that matches the bullet points from the article

<comment><USER10> 6809 was Motorola.

MOS took engineers from Motorola who made the 6800 chip, cloned it and MOS 6501 was pin compatible with the 6800 and the 6502 changed two pins. Motorola sued and won over the 6501 but not the 6502.

The 6809 was a 16 bit chip IIRC. TRS-80 COCO used it. It was the original chip to be used on the $600 Macintosh project until Steve Jobs took it over and changed it to the 68000 CPU.

6800 cost $300 and 6502 cost $30, guess which ones the 8 bit video game consoles and computers wanted to use?

<comment><USER11> I'm pretty sure the 6809 is still considered a 8-bit processor. You could treat 2 of the 8-bit registers as a 16-bit, but it was still 8-bit registers.

<comment><USER10> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809)

Apparently it is 8 bit with 16 bit features.

I had a friend in high school who upgraded from the TRS-80 COCO to the TRS-80 COCO2 and offered me his old computer. I already had a Commodore 64 and I told him no, to give it to another friend who didn't have a computer yet. I should have taken it so I could run OS9 on it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I guess my Atari 400 won't run it (only upgraded to 48k - yeah soldering), but my 130XE looks good for it. I didn't know about flash cartridge (or Ultimate 1MB/Incognito). If the mouse uses the joystick port, how does it work (paddle?)?

<comment><USER12> Doing preemptive multitasking (with hardware memory protection, more or less) was actually not too hard on the 130XE (and the variants that added more RAM... I had mine up to 320K at one point, and some people even had 1 or 2 MB).

The extra RAM on those machines appeared in 16K banks that could be switched in and out by setting a control register.

Code in one 16K bank was totally isolated from code in other banks. Obviously code that wasn't located in that part of the address space could access anything that was in the currently switched-in bank, but there was no way for one bank to directly access another.

I wrote a primitive multitasking kernel (nowhere near as elaborate as this) using a C package that simulated a 16 bit machine by using multiple bytes of Page 0 as pseudo-registers. You just had to save those off before switching banks and jumping back to the other task.

It actually worked reasonably well, but not fast enough to be practical.

Yeah, I'm old.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Here is the development thread, starting in 2009.

[http://atariage.com/forums/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the- atar...](http://atariage.com/forums/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/)

</comment><comment><USER14> I wonder if this is a stock 6052 running this OS? Anyone know?

<comment><USER15> _In addition to this, Jörn convinced me that pre-emptive multitasking was possible on the 6502, so in May 2014, I began the arduous task of converting the existing code to run from a bank-switched cartridge, while simultaneously designing the pre-emptively multitasking kernel._

 _What is especially heartening at this stage is that the 8-bit Atari can actually run a pre-emptive scheduler, and run it well – in spite of the 6502's fixed stack._

Looks like it is.

<comment><USER16> In 1987 I published a preemptive multitasking for 6502[1] (Apple II). If I remember properly (it's only been 30 years or so), the stack is fixed at $100, so all you need to do on a context switch is save the stack somewhere else and restore it. That's 256 bytes to move around. I used the mouse card as an interrupt source (video refresh) to get a regular source of interrupts.

[1] I can't find any trace online, except for some weird Word document of what must have been the original README file.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Is the code up somewhere? It sounds very innovative and I'd like to check it out.</comment>


List of cases US Supreme Court will hear in the 2019-2020 Term - <AUTHOR> https://www.oyez.org/cases/2019 <comment><AUTHOR> There are several important cases that are coming up, e.g. see below for some discussion on prominent pending cases:

      * Cases to watch: https://www.axios.com/supreme-court-cases-2020-census-gerrymandering-lgbtq-discrimination-43e9c931-78aa-42a8-b32a-1f385f0a262a.html
      * https://www.npr.org/2019/10/07/765091522/the-supreme-court-march-to-the-right-fast-and-furious-or-incremental

In addition, here are some I found interesting:

      * Age discrimination: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2019/18-882
      * Public access to legal annotations: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2019/18-1150
      * May a state abolish the insanity defense: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2019/18-1150
      * How broad can the law be against encouraging or inducing illegal immigration for commercial advantage: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2019/19-67</comment>


Bypass Paywalls Clean for Firefox - <AUTHOR> https://bitbucket.org/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-firefox-clean <comment><USER2> Glad to see you back! Was it again adam's complaints getting you blocked?

BB is not as intuitive for me as github, I couldn't find where do you search in all their repositories not only in your own. And their sourcetree thing doesn't want to install by me for some reason.

<comment><AUTHOR> No, BitBucket has some bugs indeed. But you can also clone the repo in GitHub client. Btw BB's clone-link already contains 'git clone' in the front.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Refactored extension/add-on with lots of new sites, bug-fixes, add custom sites and update-notification.

Liberated from GitHub, now on BitBucket: [https://bitbucket.org/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls- firefox-c...](https://bitbucket.org/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-firefox- clean)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> New Chrome-weblink (BitBucket): [https://bitbucket.org/magnolia1234/bypass- paywalls-chrome-cl...](https://bitbucket.org/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls- chrome-clean)

<comment><USER3> The Android version requires installing the Yandex Browser. Does anybody know if this browser is safe? Or at least on par with Chrome and Brave?</comment></comment>


Useful Time and Date Functions in Erlang - <AUTHOR> http://gist.github.com/104903

<comment><USER2> Cool, I chucked up a date formatter thats along the same vein

[http://github.com/daleharvey/erlang_util/blob/249d7d1e31ed58...](http://github.com/daleharvey/erlang_util/blob/249d7d1e31ed58876d5fd2733734720d4989d6fd/dh_date.erl)</comment>


You Will Never Know This, Maybe Even After You Die… - <AUTHOR> http://statspotting.com/and-you-will-never-know-this-till-you-die/

<comment><USER2> If this is new to you, read <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia>

<comment><USER3> This is also a good reference, if perhaps a little technical for lay reading: <http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia/></comment></comment>


VCs Are Smarter Than You Think - <AUTHOR> http://billyngu.posterous.com/vcs-are-smarter-than-you-think Just wanted to share this. I had a lot on my mind, so I hope it isn't too incoherent. Hope this helps someone out there. <comment><USER2> You didn't find a smart VC (he is of course smart), you found a caring genuine individual who decided to help you out. He took the time to help you get to a point where you could better understand your business. Sometimes we all need someone that can help clear our heads.

<comment><AUTHOR> I can totally agree to this. He had a very unique spin on the same things people were trying to tell me. It definitely helped bring clarity to me in a very direct way. Cheers!</comment></comment>


Gmail for domains has been down for an hour - <AUTHOR>

Is anyone tracking this?<p>I cannot send email on any of my "google apps for domains" accounts, or whatever they're called this week. <comment><USER2> Everyday there seem to be a couple posts about Google/Gmail being down for domains/that country/whatever. Unless these posts link to an article explaining hows, whys or anything relevant, I think these posts are utterly uninteresting. To keep polite.

<comment><AUTHOR> What if there's no blog post?

I could write a blog post saying exactly what I said here.

<comment><USER3> Key phrase: "explaining hows, whys or anything relevant".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> In the future it might be useful to use <http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/> to figure out how wide spread the issue is.</comment>


Asn HN: Idea for SaaS – an API to create product images that show scale - <AUTHOR> Occasionally, on Amazon, I've seen that some products will be positioned near a silhouette of a person, for scale. This results in an image that cleanly relates the relative size of the product to the consumer, likely resulting in higher conversion rates, but at the very least better expectations and overall customer experience.
I was wondering if an API that produced such images would be useful to people who sell physical products, but who do not want to go through the hassle of manually creating these "contextual" images (eg, hire a person to hold or stand next to the product for a photograph, or pay for a photoshopped image).
Nearly all manufacturers, retailers, _sellers_ have the canonical white-background image of the product, and they could boost their sales, reduce returns, and provide an overall better user experience by simply sending the canonical image to an API at a cost of, say, $1 each.
They could try it beforehand for free, which is fine, because it will contain a "SAMPLE" watermark across the image. If they don't like the results, they need not purchase the "clean" image.
The API could allow customization of what to show for context (silhouette of person? a dog? a bike? your own thing? (just train it by moving by superimposing a few sample objects for us).
Seems like it checks all the boxes:
1) Big customer base. Anybody who sells stuff online and uses pictures.
2) Great UX. Anybody can drag said image into some UI and see a sample result, and then pay for the "clean" download of it.  Developers can use an API.
3) Very specific problem with very specific solution.
4) Insane margins. Fully automated.
The only trouble seems to be sales. But by offering free images (with "powered by ProductImageApi" watermark), and/or by hustling with sales (where salesperson can easily include a link to the images the prospect _could_ buy right now), it seems like an easy sell.
Thoughts? <comment><USER2> how would the image be generated?

if i sell a car vs a ring, i would have to manually scale it no?</comment>


Ask HN: How do you find a good manufacturer? - <AUTHOR>

My wife and I are in the web design/development business (long time HNer) but we have a "side project" that requires us to manufacture a physical product.  Without going into details and revealing our idea, it's essentially as complex as a "cereal bowl".  The only requirement on material is that it be able to sustain hot temperatures (similar to a hot bowl of soup)
My question is, being a web hacker I don't know the first thing about finding manufacturers and effectively working with them on this product.
Is there a good online resource for finding manufacturers?  Have any of your worked with good manufacturers on a small-ish scale?
We're not looking for Wal-Mart volumes, just a small affordable supplier that can work with us to make the best possible product.
Thanks HNers! <comment><AUTHOR> Searching HN I found this: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=189879](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=189879)

Which brings up the idea of a "design" company and a "sourcing" company. Besides personal referrals, is there a marketplace to find these folks?

Also found this: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=571884](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=571884)

Not a lot of helpful links, but some good discussion on the process.</comment>


Ask HN: Where should i be looking for co-founders? - <AUTHOR> I'm a 2nd timer, recently moved to the bay area. Had a startup back in 2012, currently consulting.<p>I have a great idea (yada yada) but not sure where potential founders are hanging around the bay. Thoughts? <comment><USER2> Don't look for a cofounder. Just start working. The farther along you get, the more prepared you will be for the "opportunity"... if/when a good potential cofounder comes along. Some people call this luck.

ps. The same advice goes for anyone looking for a romantic partner.

</comment><comment><USER3> The standard advice is that potential co-founders should come from the people already known well enough that they can be trusted, productive, and committed.

My take is that a cofounder is should be someone I want to make rich _and_ who hopefully wants to make me rich. It shouldn't be an arm's length relationship or the blush of a new love.

Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER4> Most difficult problem in startups currently imo

<comment><AUTHOR> Definitely.</comment></comment>


Warby Parker built a 1,400-employee company by focusing on team culture - <AUTHOR> https://jilt.com/upsell/warby-parker-culture/ <comment><USER2> I have so many problems with this article, and of course Warby Parker in general. First off, it seems they're going to commit the cardinal sin of every Silicon Valley company - completely ignoring anyone who isn't in the head office. Balloons on every desk - let's just ignore the vast majority of employees are sales staff who don't have desks.

The more major problem I have with WP is that their product is entirely generic and their entire business model is just to sell the same thing everyone else does but invest in a different style of woke signalling marketing. Which is exactly what this article is. The whole thing just reads as a "Isn't it great that we're in the growth phase so we can completely ignore our costs!". Tell me about when your sales _dropped_ and you kept your staff motivated and happy - that's what I want to know. I don't want to know staff like free stuff - I already know that. It's kind of easy to keep retention rates high when all your staff are so knew that there's no legacy systems to deal with and they haven't been at your company long enough to grow out of their jobs.

This article brings literally nothing knew to the table. But to be fair, it's literally an article on an e-mail marketting website.

<comment><USER3> The product is generic, but the incumbent competition charged exorbitant price for glasses frames and offered poor customer service.

Charging more reasonable prices is of course very replicable, and the mail order model has been replicated by other companies.

The characterization of ignoring the sales staff is very at odds with my experience - the staff at their brick and mortar stores I've been to have been very helpful and capable.

<comment><USER4> I've purchased three pairs of Warby Parker glasses, and a lifetime of "incumbent" glasses before and after that.

All of WP's glasses I've owned were somewhere on the scale between "garbage" and "fine as a backup pair". Cheap plastic. Very poor fit. Lenses that easily scratched. Messed up prescription multiple times (thankfully their CS is pretty good).

I'm thankful that my insurance allows me to own a "real" pair of glasses, which would normally cost ~$400, from my optometrist. Because the ~year that I experimented with WP was without a doubt coupled with the worst glasses I've ever worn in my life, and I've been wearing glasses since the first grade. I'll only ever be returning to them _maybe_ for prescription sunglasses, and even then my optometrist often runs bundles with glasses (on insurance) + sunglasses for 50% off sticker.

I respect that they're opening the market up for people who aren't lucky enough to be able to consistently afford better glasses. But I don't believe this is what we should want as a society; everyone should have access to great vision, and shouldn't have to resort to rebranded chineese knock-offs just to live their life to their best potential.

<comment><USER5> Why would a quality pair of glasses have to cost $400? You can get a quality SLR camera for that, which would seem to have way more sophistication that a pair of glasses. What am I missing?

<comment><USER6> Insurance companies and Luxottica

<comment><USER7> Chances are that if you're buying glasses you're probably getting a brand that's directly owned by Luxottica (LensCrafters, Sunglass Hut, Apex by Sunglass Hut, Pearle Vision, Sears Optical, Target Optical, Eyemed vision care plan, Glasses.com, Ray-Ban, Persol, Oakley, etc). They also manufacture for an impressive string of luxury brands (Chanel, Prada, Giorgio Armani, Burberry, Versace, Dolce and Gabbana, Miu Miu, DKNY, and Tory Burch). [0]. It's an impressive roll-up of a number of retailers and brands by a not widely known Italian company.

[0]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxottica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxottica)

<comment><USER8> Its a monopoly that abuses its power to extract money from hapless consumers, most of whom just want a pair of decent eyeglasses to function. I've made a conscious decision to avoid purchasing from them as much as I can, but do continue to buy from Ray-Ban. See: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM)

<comment> barry-cotter 33% of the US market is a monopoly?

> The company says that the market is highly competitive, and their frames > account for ~10% of sales worldwide and ~20% in the United States.[42][41] > Euromonitor International estimates that Luxottica's market share is 14% > worldwide, and the second-largest company in the industry, Essilor, has a > 13% market share. The third-largest player is Johnson & Johnson, with a 3.9% > market share. As of October 2018, Luxottica and Essilor have merged into a > single company, EssilorLuxottica, representing almost a billion pairs of > lenses and frames sold annually.

<comment><USER9> If you check price segments, the monopoly hypothesis gains support again. They own all the the higher end, including all the fashion / lifestyle brands.

<comment> barry-cotter By that logic Apple has a monopoly in smartphones.

<comment><USER8> Incorrect. Samsung etc. have phones that compete in the luxury smartphone segment with Apple. Luxottica has no such alternative (as of now, WP seems nice but it remains to be seen if they will focus on this market segment in the future).

<comment><USER10> There certainly are high-end, well-made, good-looking, and bloody expensive frames out there (i.e. everything WP isn't) that aren't from one of Luxottica's brands. Off-hand I could think of at least Gold & Wood, ic! berlin, and Mykita.

WP's story seems to be sprinkling some SV magic dust over decidedly pedestrian frames, not going after the high-end.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Honest non snarky question, why does it take 1,400 employees to sell mail order glasses, which are essentially a quasi-commodity product? What are all those employees doing? And since TFA says that balloons are put on the new hire's desk it implies these are all desk jobs, implying they probably outsource their manufacturing to factories in China.

I ask because I worked at a company that sold machinery at scale (which is much more complicated than glasses, which don't require novel engineering). We did all our physical manufacturing in-house, we had a manufacturing floor on the other side of the wall from the cubicles. We had somewhere between 250-275 employees to run the entire shop, that's manufacturing, engineering, software (embedded and application), marketing, IT, sales, logistics... Not sure if we outsourced our cleaning crew or not.

I wouldn't expect a mail order glasses company to have more than 500 employees.

<comment><USER12> This is going to sound _really_ insensitive, but I've noticed that trendy VC- backed startups often hire people that they believe are smart, but who often turn out to be entitled and ineffective, and thus the company needs to hire more employees than is typical to get the job done.

I think there's also a tendency for people not spending their own money to chase absolute outcomes rather than Pareto outcomes. e.g. if an 85% solution costs $n, startups often spend $10n on the 100% solution. My guess is that if you're a founder spending your own money, you'd pick the 85% solution.

<comment><USER13> On the other hand, what is a startup if not an experiment? Especially a VC- backed startup. Hiring non-traditional employees in non-traditional ways (compared to enterprise companies), playing around with headcount and job roles in non-traditional ways, and seeking non-traditional ways of doing business. Many of them fail, but the ones who succeed often change the way business is done in multiple industries.

Every startup is an experiment in doing business a different way. If they went with the 85% solution or hired off-the-shelf employees, they'd just be another small business. There's nothing wrong with being another small business, but startups are so drastically different that we came up with an entirely different term to talk about small businesses who do things in wildly non- traditional ways with the hope that those non-traditional tactics will lead to unprecedented success. We call them startups.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> In my experience 360 peer evaluations will be gamed. Employees cosy with each other but not necessarily in exactly the same team will give each other good reviews and won't ask for reviews from their direct teammates. They'll pull out extremely harsh criticisms without warning, and without fully understanding the person they're reviewing. Btw, this isn't just my personal experience. Here's a bit from that NYT piece on Amazon again:

> After she had a child, she arranged with her boss to be in the office from 7 > a.m. to 4:30 p.m. each day, pick up her baby and often return to her laptop > later. Her boss assured her things were going well, but her colleagues, who > did not see how early she arrived, sent him negative feedback accusing her > of leaving too soon. ... "I can't stand here and defend you if your peers > are saying you're not doing your work," she says he told her. She left the > company after a little more than a year. ... Ms. Willet's co-workers strafed > her through the Anytime Feedback Tool, the widget in the company directory > that allows employees to send praise or criticism about colleagues to > management.

( [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside- amazon-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon- wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html) )

<comment><USER15> It appears the manager did not comprehensively 'arrange' this for the employee. Part of this job would have been ensuring that this information was transparent, and the decision fair.

If employees are complaining, it is presumably a mix of a) company culture issues and b) a lack of information that meant they perceived it as unfair.

<comment><USER14> c) they've been given an easy outlet to complain without taking the time to understand what's going on. Complaint as gamification. d) other.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I hate to sound cynical but I am very skeptical of the chart that claims employees place a higher importance on "Culture and Values" compared to any/all of "Senior Leadership, Career Opportunities, Business Outlook, Work- life Balance" or that they value "Compensation and Benefits" least of all

<comment><USER17> I noticed that too. This seems more like how Senior Management wants things to be. Culture doesn't cost money.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Pretty surprised this hasn't been flagged already. It's clearly content marketing that doesn't have anything of substance.

As for Warby Parker, it is not a particularly innovative technology company, which is neither a good thing or bad thing on its own. I will give it credit for being a solvent business with a working business model. I interviewed for a pretty high level position there and was pretty unimpressed. I got the impression of a company that has an undifferentiated product, more funding (and likely dilution) than they should, fairly slick marketing, a healthy dose of startup kool-aid combined with altogether pretty ordinary people who were really sure they were doing something more technologically sophisticated than running a DNVB.

Given how late stage they were, I was surprised by their offer being as mediocre as it was, and I took a competing one. No regrets.

</comment><comment><USER7> The podcast "How I Built This" featured an episode with Dave Gilboa & Neil Blumenthal the founders of Warby Parker. It's an interesting background into why they chose the eyeglass market and some of their initial problems. The podcast can be found at:

[https://www.npr.org/2018/03/26/586048422/warby-parker- dave-g...](https://www.npr.org/2018/03/26/586048422/warby-parker-dave-gilboa- neil-blumenthal)

</comment><comment><USER19> The article has definitely been fluffed up by marketing, but if you read it with a critical perspective, there is a valuable message: _The company network is a cheaper retention strategy than career /salary growth_

People are less likely to career-hop to the next $10k boost that a headhunter sends them if they like their employees and feel like their time is well- spent.

</comment><comment><USER20> The 60 minutes episode on Luxottica and why glasses are so expensive was interesting context for reading about Warby Parker.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM)

</comment><comment><USER21> A lot of things are important, but in terms of sustainability and longevity onboarding has to be in the Top 3. Whether it's new employess or new customers, establishing the foundation for the ongoing relationship is essential. It's not something that should be assumed, left to chance, etc. Else, the odds of having to back fill that hole - and probably failing to do so - at some future date is going to be very expensive.

</comment><comment><USER22> I had a pair of WP frames that were just fine (my first pair of glasses). When they broke, I ordered not one, but two pairs of similar acetate frames for $20 from Zenni. Quality was identical, so much so that I wonder if they came from the factory. A pair from one company cost 10 times the other, and they both came quickly in the mail... I don't anticipate that this will be sustainable.

The Takeaways section is pretty funny. It reads like an rote instruction manual for an extraterrestrial middle manager who has never socialized with human beings before. Straight out of Office Space.

</comment><comment><USER23> Unsuccessfully tried to order my third pair of Sibley's last week but they were discontinued. :( Got the Wilkie instead but just not the same. Too large and a white line I didn't notice online. Still ordering through them is a great experience.

</comment><comment><USER24> PSA - If you have a Costco membership, try getting your glasses there. Great prices, pretty decent selection, will fix and tune your glasses free for life.

</comment><comment><USER25> Zenni Optical eats Warby for lunch. They are over hyped and over priced.

</comment><comment><USER26> [deleted]

<comment><USER27> This is another market entirely. A lot of those 1400 employees are retail, which can't be auto-scaled away as easily.

I mean, if they can make meaningful jobs that pay ok without shady business practices or bad work conditions, more power to them. I'm all for leveraging people more effectively, but sales and in-person support is a nice job I still like being done by humans.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> IMHO, as long as founders are engaged, employees will be happy.

<comment><USER29> What makes you think that?

<comment><USER28> Past experience, leaving companies because founders are not showing up for months etc. Besides, article also mentions compensation is not the first reason to stay in a company? I believe everything else needs an involvement from top to the bottom, that is what I wanted to point out.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Cyber Hacker – Hacking Simulator for iOS - <AUTHOR> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cyber-hacker/id980884110

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi guys! We would like to share with you some work that we finished recently. Hope you enjoy it.

Cyber Hacker is a game designed to simulate a complete hacking experience. Steal files, attack servers, create viruses, do Social Engineering and much more!

Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you!</comment>