text:
New Chowhound Design is Now Live!
We're pleased to announce a new design for Chowhound board and thread pages, the first of a series of changes that will be released in the upcoming months. To learn more about the design and functionality, take a look at this video: http://www.chow.com/food-news/131157
Here's a bit of background about why we are redesigning the look of the site:
This is the biggest change to the look of the site since Chowhound (re)launched in 2006! It is absolutely a necessity for us to evolve and modernize the look of Chowhound to compete in today's food-obsessed web environment. To keep the site going strong, change is needed.
The design that you are seeing is the product of 6 months of work and planning. We've conducted user testing with both casual and long-term users and have come up with a design that we believe works for mobile as well as desktop users. We're proud of what we've accomplished.
In the past year, we have seen dramatic increases in our mobile traffic. Our new design addresses the needs of these users, while maintaining the functionality that desktop users rely upon. The design you are currently seeing is a living thing. We will be changing the site repeatedly in the months ahead based on how people are using the site.
We've tested the site extensively before this release, but there may be things that we missed. If you notice bugs, please report them on Site Talk. The best strategy is to start a new discussion about the particular bug, which will ensure that our Engineering team sees it and addresses the problem. For more information on how to report bugs and technical problems, see: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/877664
If you have feedback about the new design, it's helpful to be as specific as possible and bear in mind that we are working to address the needs of many different types of users. Thank you for your commitment to the site, and for taking part in the ongoing process of improving it,
Dave MP on behalf of the CHOW Product Team
Folks, this thread is getting very long, and the latest replies are increasingly focused on hounds sniping at each other, rather than talking about the design itself.
We're going to lock this thread now, but we do want you to continue to comment on the new design. There are follow-up threads describing the tweaks we've been making as a result of your feedback and it would be great if you added any new comments there. The most recent is from Thursday: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881959
But there's also Wednesday:
And Tuesday:
If you come across specific items that are broken, you can also start new threads to report those bugs.
Dave MP, I know this is really repetitious but returning to my office view today, and paging down my profile "view" I could barely discern the difference between posts that had changed and not, leaving aside the little arrows. The distinction between the two background colors and the two levels of darkness of the headers was barely discernable. If the site can show big reg knife and fork icons, it can also use the new button or a similar clear indicator of threads with new content Right now there are three ways you are trying to show it and none of them are intuitive or communicate effectively.
Still too much empty space creating a glare around the type.
Other things seem to be getting somewhat better, thanks.
Seriously, who thought this redesign was a good idea??? I am not a very active user, so maybe my opinion wont count, but this may be the end of the road for me and chowhound. I LOVED this site, but with each redesign it got a little more difficult to use. This is just ridiculous though. First it is really hard to read, to the point that my head is hurting after a few minutes. Secondly, it is confusing as ... Why do the posts say when they were started? I can look in the thread if I want to know that, I want to know when the last reply was! Ugh, ugh, ugh!
The site is somewhat easier to read now. I no longer have to toggle between control + and control - to maintain a constantly readable typeface size.
Also, the Reply box typeface is sans serif (Yay!) and a larger size (double yay!)
I wish there were no gray type anywhere, and especially no gray type on a gray background (the unread posts seem to have a darker type today, but it's still read against a gray background).
Some additional updates were posted by Meredith in a new thread:
There used to be a link back to the regional board at the bottom of every thread. This has now disappeared. On long threads (such as this ones) it would be nice to have so one did not have to scroll all the way back to the top.
Thank you,
EDIT: It appears that you have one for this board. But there is not one on the Quebec (inc. Montreal) board.
EDIT 2: It appears that there is some threshold of comments that has to be attained before the link back kicks in at the bottom. As I use a small screen, this is not helpful. Could the threshold be set so that ALL threads have a link at the bottom to go to the parent board? Thank you very much in advance.
I see it is still necessary to scroll all the way back to the top to respond to the OP, even with a thread that has more than 600 replies. This is an easy fix, why has it been ignored?
There are some major design flaws with the new format.
1. Post width, take your right menu and move it OFF the grey space. Expand the Posting column to take up this space.
2. Lag/load times. I'm not sure what it is up the site is decidely "kludgy" to use now.
3. New post/thread etc. Sorry to burst your bubble but most titles should be in bold by default, this isn't something that should be used to indicate new posts. It should be something very clear and specific such as an icon or clear contrasting color, not something that blends in with everything else as it does now.
Reply seeds should also be collapsed by default if not new and expandable with a + sign on the root post. This lengthy post is a perfect example, you have to scroll through tons of replies you've read before, even if just titles, just to see if there's something new.
Apologies for the negative comments but nothing is really intuitive, and it's just poorly implemented. The new format should really have gone through a public beta before being brought live.
I admit I have not read every response. I'm one who likes the opening words of each posting showing. One thing that I would like (being a self centered, vain, and narcissistic person) would be to have the viewer's name highlighted so that I can be sure to respond to any comments directed at me. In other words, whenever I open this up, anyplace Kaimukiman shows as the poster it would show up in boldface or in red or something. when kaleokahu opens it up, he sees kaleokahu in bold or red or whatever.
Are those RED DIAMONDS for CHOWHOUND "ELITES"?
(I thought they were tears at first).
It is interesting to note the stats from Alexa.com that the reach (Estimated percentage of global internet users who visit chow.com) stats for yesterday was -19.26%. I think the design change is a Fail.
Additionally, looking at where visitors go on Chow.com:
chowhound.chow.com 79.55%
chow.com 24.42%
search.chow.com 0.18%
It seems rather clear that what drives and keeps Chow.com going is the CH section, and you are losing people.
Those are some numbers.
re: Quine
re: Quine
If you look at the stats more carefully and objectively, you will see that there is a weekly cycle to Chow traffic which peaks on Sunday, then falls through the week. After removing the effect of the Thanksgiving peak, the trend in Chow usage has been generally upward. Your conclusion is unfounded, and it is too early to draw any such conclusion.
I've gotten more used to the changes, but still request:
1. Smaller font on the topics page. Seeing, what, maybe 20 at a time takes too much paging to get to a day's worth of posts.
2. Even when going to page 2, still have repeats of maybe 10 posts from page 1, meaning my page 2 really shows only 10 new posts--adding redundancy to the already small # of posts
3. Tiny font in typing replies. Gave up on typing a recipe 'cause I couldn't tell if I had typed 1/3 c or 1/8 cup.
4. Have gotten used to the greys and the left-facing arrow for new, but wonder how long it will take newbies to figure that out--could have been much more intuitive from the get-go
Do like the 1st line repeat on existing replies. Sadly, that's about the only change I see that was an improvement.
I won't reiterate things I've already read; suffice it to say I love change and I seriously do not love the changes here. Suggestions:
1 Pls fix/explain the most common complaints you've seen here.
2 Pls make the # with that <--- with already read posts more meaningful: tell us how many NEW replies, not total number
3 Pls enjoy a big staff meal and vent about how hard it is to improve things in a way that people see as improvement.
re: miss louella
I'm sure the "Brand Manager's" who developed the New Coke , thought the same.
I can indeed confirm that almost none of them work for Coca Cola any more.
Adjust to crappy designformats, issues and all the other bugs and be complacent? My a$$. Ha.
I add content.
No Content. No traffic. Do Not Pass Go. Do Not Collect $200.
"Almost"white field w/black type for responses with grey compressed older post tabs now up.
I like it. -thumbup-
You still need to go back to a white field with black type though. This faint gray field stuff no matter the topic or thread is stll REALLY fatiguing on the eyes and hard to read. After 6 pages or threads I have to leave the site. It's just too hard to read though effectively.
Also fix that crappy 84 point type with waaaay too much white space and info inefficiency on the main chowhound.com page and you MAY be heading in the right direction.
This re-do reminds me to NEVER just hire a bunch of guys with hammers and wood to build a new addition on my house.
Common sense tells me to hire a architect (or in your case a graphic designer that did more than draw "Tippy the Turtle" and do "remote" schooling) to design a well done additon. Or in your case, a web site redeux.
I moderate 2 sites w/forums and Admin a 3rd.
This is laughable in so many ways that i KNOW you can do better.
C'mon CH web team and CBS mgmt.
Don't try and do a forum from scratch if you don't know how.
Tippy the Turtle ref:
The beige background now on display in the Chowhound redesign banner at the top of the page is very easy on the eyes. Replace the snowblind white with that beige, darken the gray, and cut the blank space. That will at least eliminate the physical distress of trying to deal with this loathsome redesign. Then all we'll need to get used to is the folly of rejiggering the design without addressing readers'
most common and oft-repeated complaints.
1. Why gray/gray type, ever? Black type, some bold colors for emphasis, distinction.
2. Bring back the "New" button.
3. Less titles per page is irksome, not efficient.
4. Bring back the "Respond to OP" at the bottom of a thread
5. If we MUST have the preview line on previously read replies, at least please make those a completely different color than the unread replies - NOT a different shade of gray. Again, why gray ever?
6. While you're working on things, why not throw your loyal stalwart posters a bone and give us the ability to unsubscribe from a post we no longer have interest in seeing on our profiles?
7. I haven't seen this yet, so if it has already happened, I apologize, but please let us know what changes you are contemplating making in response to this deluge of valid complaints (they're valid because most people are in agreement on most of them).
Thank you.
re: mariacarmen
re: HillJ
there is still too much gray, as any gray in text for me is too much. it creates a blur that is unpleasant and eye-straining, even on already read threads/replies. i am not a person who complains a lot about headaches, eye strain, etc., and i am not change averse in the least. also, the text is still small in the reply, something i failed to mention above. these are changes that were made for the worse, not for the better. if you like it, that is fine, but you do not need to monitor others.
re: mariacarmen
Well said, Maria, the 99% of us who have complained in honest, about the size, contrast, bad use of color scheme, have pretty much been told by "certain" people here, without diamonds next to their names, about how "changes" are being made, when they are actually only bug fixes. We are still trying to read 8 pt. type in a space that is less than 50% of the page width. Telling people to essentially "suck it up" is an attempt to monitor others. Maybe they are afraid of a mutiny.
re: Quine
You might have noticed that the 8 pt. reply font is gone! Updates for Wednesday are here:
However, I would STILL like to see the column used for the actual read/write area to be widened. Maybe tomorrow. :-)
re: LindaWhit
re: LindaWhit
i did just note a lot of the changes that were made, Linda, thanks for linking to Meredith's post. i'd actually stayed off this site most of the day, and signed up over at egullet. i do like what i see over there, but i'm happy we were listened to (somewhat) and hopefully will continue to be listened to here, as i never really wanted to leave. i was just telling friends how much i love CH, two days ago!
(i also want to add that in no way do i think CH is "caving" to people who threaten to leave, nor should they be guided by that. i certainly meant no threat by my mention of another site, and do not believe my departure would be noticed nor should it be. i'm again grateful that CH is listening to its users.)
re: mariacarmen
egullet is just too stuffy for me, and I dislike the way they shove everything into one thread, even if someone starts a new thread - it's all moved over to the old thread. As I said long ago, I don't want to read a restaurant review thread that goes back 5 years. I prefer the most recent info, the way CH allows an updated thread to be started.
And YES, it would be noticed if you left! So please don't.
re: LindaWhit
Personally, I've always preferred the egullet format (and site design) to Chowhound's.
And, yes, I definitely prefer the single thread concept. Of course, I'm not really interested in a review from five years ago. But I'm probably interested in five weeks, or five months, back - particularly when it's a review from someone whose views I respect. That said, my home (UK/Ireland) board has a declining number of folk posting so it is becoming less of a place of interest to me (Twitter and Facebook seem to be increasingly replacing discussion boards - not that I use either)
re: LindaWhit
re: Quine
re: mariacarmen
Your complaint about GRAY is very real.If it wasn't there would not be a PLETHORA of tinted lenses for pilots,sailors and shooters to choose from in gray on gray,trimmed in gray and low to ZERO horizon conditions.All measured in numbers of pink and gray layered tint.I have two or three early on posts addressing the gray,all tongue in cheek smarmy and TOTALLY serious.
The optic nerve to the brain problems were observed,SOLVED and addressed about this decades ago.Bound ledgers were/are green tint with a black/blue contrast to reduce ERRORS.No one gave a whit about fatigue or any of the human problems.The boss only gave a sh*t about mistakes he might have to eat. GRAY is cheap,REALLY CHEAP just check any printer,even 21st century on a bad day.
PS I get the same "monitoring others" feel that you have/re Hill J
re: lcool
re: mariacarmen
mariacarmen you're welcome
Babies,no way.Some/many of us began our computer years on the "old gray curved" screen,no colour.I,for one remember people that had to give up contact lenses,change glasses etc to be "screen specific" for visual acuity without headaches and work.There were a few that had tinted covers over the monitor screen to modify curved gray.
re: mariacarmen
re: GH1618
However, you are about the only person who has stated it in various threads, GH1618.
The overwhelming response is that the pale gray-on-slightly darker gray-with even darker gray sidebars-next to stippled gray outside sidebars is very wearing on the eyes for *most*.
re: GH1618
re: lcool
1. I can't tell anymore which posts I have viewed in the past, and which ones I haven't.
2. Have to scroll all the way to the top of a topic to post a reply to the original post.
3. Only 20 topics per page, but if I want to head to page 3, I can't go there directly. I have to go to 2, and only then does the page 3 icon appear.
4. Finding the color variation between white background [new post] and the grey background [no new post] very hard to differentiate even on my 30" monitor.
Those are my major complaints. I suspect that others have mentioned all the little things that are annoying me.
I have a few iPhone specific questions. When I open the Chowgound home page, I am seeing only 20-ish posts and have no way that I can find to get any more or move on to the next page. Since Chowhound is my go-to page for perusing when I have a free moment, this is just so depressing. And - when I'm trying to find a thread on a certain board, I have the "5 dots" at the bottom, but after that cannot get any further.If it is an older thread, how do I get there? Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong or missing here?
re: Mothership
On a different thread, meshane posted a work-around for the five-page limit: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8815...
I think it's unacceptable to have to emend the URL simply to get beyond page 5 in a long thread. I'm a comparative newcomer to using CH on a smartphone so I'm not sure how much this will affect me. But I know that on my laptop and desktop I am regularly scrolling through very long Cookbook of the Month threads and to be cut off before reaching the end could be extremely annoying.
re: JoanN
re: JoanN
re: JoanN
I agree that it's an unacceptable solution to actually have to edit the url on a smartphone in order to access content, where that is the only possible way to get to that content.
My big pet peeve is where a website decides what's best for everyone without allowing for options that people want. Since only 10% of users view more than 5 pages in (as was stated in another thread), then too bad if you're in that 10%.
If I haven't been keeping up on an active board, I very often want to quickly scan through the posts going back a few days, which in the new format would be way more than 5 pages. (In the old format, it would be about 2 or maybe 3 pages back.) And again, in this scenario, smaller fonts and more per page would be ideal. I have a hard time reading the post titles quickly with such a big font (on the PC -- I am waiting for the fix for Android to make it actually usable on Android). I literally have to move further away from my monitor as I read them. I have never had to do that before.
I do like the changes that were made today -- it's easier to read the threads. And count me in for liking the preview on the already-read replies.
Please allow mobile users to actually access the site's content without resorting to manipulating url's.
One other suggestion -- rollover text. Very easy to add, and it would make some of your important unidentified icons a bit clearer.
re: hbg1
Just to clarify, it's not 10% of pageviews that have gone past the first 100 threads, is 1/10th of 1 percent. That's 0.1%.
I do agree that editing a URL is not a great solution for that 0.1%, but I wanted to make sure that power users know how to do it if they are in that group.
As I mentioned on the other thread, the mobile experience is designed to be a streamlined experience providing most users with what they look for most of the time, and we will continue to make adjustments and appreciate constructive feedback.
re: meshane
Thanks for the correction and response - sorry I hadn't gone to find the other thread that quoted the numbers.
I do see a bit of a conflict in that the site has clearly been redesigned for mobile, and hopefully the major bugs for mobile users will be resolved quickly. But if that's the case, then why completely block a lot of the site's content from mobile users?
Right now I mostly use the site on a PC, but like many I am moving more toward mobile access. I can't say that I've spent more than a few minutes on this site on my Android phone because of the font issues. It's not usable there right now, but if/when that is addressed, I'd like to be able to have the same experience on my phone that I do on the website. At least please allow us to access the regular site as an alternative if we so choose.
One other unrelated point that people have mentioned, that I'll bring up here. I would really like a way to remove a thread from my list. I've had to completely unsubscribe to email notifications because I replied to this thread, so that I would stop getting hundreds of emails about it. But in general I like the email feature, and didn't really want to turn it off. Allowing me to remove this post from the list, or even better, have a separate control for receiving email notifications, would really be helpful.
I noticed that people have been requesting this for a long time. Is there a reason that this has never been implemented?
1. Smaller font size for thread titles
2. Less grey, and black type, not grey type
3. "New" button
4. Be able to respond to OP without going to the top of the page.
5. More thread titles per page
6." Link, flag and reply" available at all times
Just off the top of my head...
It would be great if you fixed this problem with closing parentheses at end of lines under certain conditions like (http://example.com)
Reported to a friend at CBS Interactive years ago, but seems to have persisted through several upgrades.
You can see more examples, including some without a URL before the paren, see a few posts down in:
re: will47
They did all this work and _still_ haven't fixed this bug? Wow.
FWIW, one work-around is to put a trailing space after the closing parenthesis, at the end of the line:
(See, it works!)
But it would be better if this bug was simply fixed.
terrible. i posted on the Boston site that the font size is too big and there is too much scrolling. That post appears to have been deleted.
This is a really bad design. It is hard to believe it was tested with users.
- Though many people hate seeing the first line of text from collapsed posts, I don't think it's a bad change. It is distracting at first, but I got pretty used to it in the course of a day, and it can give you idea of where the conversation is at a glance.
- I think the contrast between those collapsed posts and new posts has been increased in the last few hours, and that is a good thing. Even a little more contrast might help.
- Like others, I'd prefer to have more than 20 threads on the 'Latest Chowhound Posts" page.
- I like that the avatars are bigger and easier to make out when they do appear. But I would prefer to still have avatars show up next to second-tier replies, even if they were small. They help me quickly find particularly trusted posters at a glance.
- Now that you've got all that extra space, consider maybe restoring the "Discussions You Might Also Like" section to its former glory, including more than three threads. Just a thought.
I can't scroll through all 477 posts on my iPhone to see what others have said, but I have a couple of concerns about the font. I access the site primarily on an iPhone. 1. I don't like the giant font on the first line of the thread title. Can the title font be all the same size (the smaller size please). 2. The new font for posts is hard to read. There is not enough head space around the text, I have to squint a bit when reading which is uncomfortable. As a mobile user, I found the old site easier to read.
Hate the new site: 467
Like it: 4.
re: magic
In all fairness, many people don't like change, and I hated the last redesign almost as much as this one, and got used to it.
I think with a forum, we forget how used we are to the design being a certain way, and any kind of change can be pretty disruptive.
That said, I do find it hard to believe that the folks who did all of this extensive testing didn't find the new version difficult to navigate.
re: will47
They have made some changes today that I consider to be a real improvement comapred to what I was seeing this morning, but there is still work to be done. And many are still having problems.
I agree that people don't like change but when the overwhelming majority of posts are complaints and not kudos something has to be done or you risk losing them.
It looks like CH is listening, somewhat.
Can you please end this thread so that I stop getting emails from it? Start a new one maybe?!! At this rate, my Inbox will be full in a few hours!
re: TeacherFoodie
re: LindaWhit
We've been down that road, with little real resolution.
It's awfully strange, because an "unsubscribe from thread" function seems like a no-brainer from a user experience standpoint. Also, it would be great to have an option to be notified only when your post has been replied to.
I can only surmise there must be other reasons that an unsubscribe function has been very consciously and deliberately omitted.
Mr Taster
re: Mr Taster
re: LindaWhit
re: John E.
Ditto, I really regret posting on that Best Cooking Shows thread that one time or so. I was done with that thread years ago yet there it still is - high on my profile page, mocking me. Le sigh.
Kudos though CH for changing the typing font in these reply boxes.
MUCH better. :)
re: Mr Taster
re: TeacherFoodie
re: MacGuffin
re: magic
I have thought for a long time that Chowhound should let you both *subscribe* to threads you're interested in, but haven't posted in, and *unsubscribe* to threads you have posted in, but are no longer interested in seeing updates from. If this is already possible, let me know how.
Indeed, the LARGE TYPE edition might be nice for the visually impaired, or perhaps on cell phones, but on a computer it just ends up being annoying.
And frankly, it looks amateurish - as though it was designed without user readability in mind.
Apple manages to make its site look good on a computer AND on an iPhone without it looking like early 80's experiments in desktop publishing.
Hey everyone, Just wanted to share a link to the post where I describe the changes we made today, based on large part on the constructive feedback we've gotten from users: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881622
More coming tomorrow. Thanks, Meredith
Today is my first time to see the redesign on my PC.
My biggest complaint is the font size and small number of topics shown/page. Not enough topics per page was a major complaint after the last redesign, and thankfully, the powers that be corrected that mistake.
The other major complaint in the previous redesign was too much white space, and those in charge fixed that by making the sides of the page something other than white. This latest design is just too gray. I was able to fix that somewhat by using NoSquint to set a white background and black text, but now I'm stuck with something similar to the "too white" old design. It's still better than the new color scheme though.
I agree with the people who say the font size needs fine-tuning. Too big on the listed topics, about right on the shown replies, and too small on the reply I'm typing now.
Until today, I'd only seen the new design on my iPad and the deficiencies of the new design weren't as apparent there.
In case anyone cares, this thread is from the last mega design change : http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/726572
Nothing changed then, and now it is worst.
What works and is good for mobile devices does not necessarily work or is good for people viewing the site on computers.
The design of each board - narrow margins, giant fonts - makes my eyes unfocus and I have to move way back from my computer screen in order to read the titles. Good for seniors and mobile devices, bad for anyone on a computer.
While individual posts look ok for size, the grey text on a grey background is hard on the eyes. And what's with the super teeny tiny font for the reply boxes? Why can't we have normal font sizes??
You know, most sites have a mobile version of their regular site, not a single version that caters to mobile devices.
Many intelligent and helpful comments here. For those who would rather leave than offer constructive suggestions for improvement to evolve the site: In the spirit of the season ""If they'd rather leave then perhaps they had better do so and decrease the surplus site population.
re: Bacchus101
re: Bacchus101
But we have already been told, the new design is it, what's the use of giving constructive suggestions? Been on this site for 6 years now, it used to be my first and most read site. I've seen it go through many design changes, all for the worst, and corrections were for bugs only. This is not my first rodeo here.
Where as I used to happily spend hours reading topics and posts, now it is just minimum.
There are better sites out there, ones with good content, active discussions and a usable photo album. If Chow doesn't wish to compete, so be it.
Tavern on the Green used to be a great restaurant, now it's gone.
P.S. No site, like any other business, can have a "surplus population". Especially one that depends on ad revenue.
re: Bacchus101
Everyone from digg left to go to reddit after they botched that redesign.
Anyone know what the best chowhound alternative is, apart from blogs?
Anyway, it is the year 2012. I thought the problem of designing a web-based message board was solved 20 years ago.... guess i was wrong.
re: Dustin_E
Best alternative site? Probably Egullet. Which has a very nicely designed forum. Although I prefer the general "vibe" of Chowhound, so I come here. Perhaps it's time for a change. My eyes are literally in pain as I type this, thanks to the terrible color scheme.
As an aside: The Chow.com site is nicely skinned. It boggles the mind that a site like Chow would want to create an inconsistent look and feel. Which makes me wonder whether this same skin will be applied to the rest of the site? That will certainly be interesting...
re: davis_sq_pro
I've never liked either the look or the "vibe" of egullet. People might not know that egullet was originally started as an alternative to chowhound by people who were either banned or left in a fit of pique over what was then Jim Leff's moderation policy. Then after all kinds of nasty internecine fighting they ended up having a purge of their own. Maybe they've grown up some since then, but they've always had what I think of as a cliquish, boys'club, know-it-all tone.
re: Ruth Lafler
re: Ruth Lafler
Wow! Just clicked over to egullet to check it out, try to get a feel for it. While, I can't speak for the tone of it (yet), it's design clearly has it over this new one. Clicking back to CH was such a shock! Why would any site want to have miles of blank space? And in such camouflage colors, making it so difficult to read?
re: Quine
Egullet is practically useless for my purposes, since it lumps all of California into one board and has relatively small participation.
Different board formats have different pros and cons. For example, there's no way to compress read posts on egullet discussions, nor can they be threaded to easily see who is responding to what.
re: Ruth Lafler
I prefer Egullet's spin-off, www.mouthfulsfood.com to egullet. Wading through the in-jokes and chat there is time-consuming but there's a pretty high quality level of content once you wade through it all.
re: Chris VR
Went to the mouthfulsfood site in hopes that it would be an improvement in design over this site. It looks to me as if this new design here is a copy of their site. Bad idea. The moderators here say they are working on answering our complaints. I'll keep checking for a design that doesn't give me a headache for a few days befoe I give up. I read Chowhound.com for pleasure. If the eyestrain causes me pain, I'll miss the site but I won't be back. Oh, besides the contrast issues, this type face is pretty but it is also hard reading.
re: Ruth Lafler
I know about the whole Chowhound / eGullet split.
I think that both forums have their own quirks -- I read and post on both, but I prefer Chowhound most of the time. Yes, eGullet's stated policies and mission are pretentious as hell, *but* the actual people there tend to be reasonable, and are less likely to rise to flamebait than folks on here.
While both Chowhound and eGullet have overactive moderation, I think eGullet has a bit better signal:noise ratio - while its silly signup policy is a bit exclusionary, that, combined with the lack of focus on regional specific stuff and its overactive combining of threads, also results in a lot less of "I'm visiting LA from New York -- what restaurants should I go to" kind of questions.
re: Bacchus101
re: MacGuffin
Hi MacGuffin,
The reason that discussion was locked was because I started this new discussion instead, right when the new design went up. It was more useful for us for people to comment on the actual new design, and not just the mocks that were provided last week.
However, locked discussions are not supposed to disappear from your profile. I just looked at this too, and it's a bug. Hopefully this will be fixed soon, and thanks for alerting me to it!
re: Dave MP
re: lcool
re: lcool
Just a bit of ancient history, this actually was deliberately chosen behavior, but the site evolved until it basically became a bug.
Once upon a time, there were only a small number of discussion on people's profile pages -- the exact number varied over time, but it wasn't paginated to include your entire history like it is now. The idea of that page was to let people keep up with active conversations, and we didn't want to sacrifice one of those precious slots to discussions that were locked, because by definition, they couldn't be active anymore. So we specifically excluded locked threads.
Eventually, the user pages evolved to where they are now, with a user's whole history on them, but the restriction to open threads remained.
re: Jacquilynne
Jacquilynne,greetings on day 3 I think there is still a time line,clock problem.I was here last evening,12 December ?22:30/23:00 EST and your reply had some time on it then,yet now 08:25 13 December your reply is only "about 10 hours ago".I don't know how close,accurate the "clock",time stamp should be,different by 2+ hours seems a bit much.
That is way I thought I remembered "locked threads",thanks for confirming.
I wouldn't mind a "delete thread" option in my profile.I could,would purge 40% almost instantly.That would,for me and others maybe leave space for the odd closed thread we do want handy,easy to find.
PS,the little red diamond made relocating this a day later,the proverbial cake walk.
re: Dave MP
Ooooh, yet another bug . . . whatever happened to testing it before going live?
Yesssss . . . clearly more important to satisfy the corporate suits (who profit from, but do not use) this site than the people who DO use it. And as long as we continue to use it, the corporate suits can make more money via an increase in ad rates . . . .
re: zin1953
re: donovt
re: carolinadawg
re: donovt
re: donovt
re: carolinadawg
Here's the deal, I responded to someone who said "clearly more important to satisfy the corporate suits than the people who DO use it". My point is of course you satisfy the person who signs your pay check.
Not sure what line of work you're in, but I've never had a job where I was able to tell my bosses "no, I'm going to do it a different way than I've been instructed".
re: donovt
>Not sure what line of work you're in, but I've never
>had a job where I was able to tell my bosses
>"no, I'm going to do it a different way than
>I've been instructed".
wow, maybe this was the CHOWHOUND ENGINEERING TEAM's "Charge of the Light Grey Brigade" moment.
re: donovt
re: donovt
Gee, I dunno . . . phrased like THAT, no -- but in EVERY job that I have ever had (and, FWIW, I'm 59 now and have been working since I was 16), my boss was willing to LISTEN to my idea if I thought I had a better one . . . and that includes sole proprietorships, family owned companies, and multi-million dollar corporations.
Maybe you just never tried?
re: zin1953
re: MacGuffin
re: GH1618
re: GH1618
re: MacGuffin
"And I don't see your posts getting yanked"
laughing hard at that
been around since the beginning,under an old user name,now this one with some long gaps
my replies enter the "Ether Triangle" ......frequently
To a degree I agree with your "looking to attract" remark.
But I think that's going on a lot damn near everywhere.
I think my replies addressing "the gray" have remained because I have been anal careful,correct and not alone.
re: carolinadawg
Cheesy illegible abomination with blurry type and a user interface that looks like it was intended for 5 year olds.
The new design is so hard on the eyes that on my 22 inch monitor I find it almost illegible.
It literally give me a headache. WAY too much white space. No contract. Very little way to pic out what you want.
The use of the first sentence in someones post even when it is collapsed is VERY distracting.
You guys really blew it. FAIL,
While I'm not exactly Thrilled with this New Design, and after leaving the site and returning several times I have to say the Main issue for me is the "look" of a page. On the "Latest Discussion Page", the page I call the Main Board, the title of the threads is too large and too bold. The date, etc. is too small and too light. I really have a headache from trying to read light against dark and vice versa on other pages as well.
Has anyone had issues with being kicked back to their profile page when in the middle of reading a thread??
What the???
re: Ruth Lafler
Is it this? If so, apparently this is soon to be fixed.
re: DGresh
re: The Dairy Queen
It seems you can be be kicked back to your own profile page or another member's profile page.
It happens when I expand on someone's name and my mouse cursor simply then hovers over that expanded name. I will be kicked to that person's profile page. Whoever it might be.
The point is, none of this should be happening. Seems to be a really huge bug. How this was missed is beyond me. Soooo easy to catch.
re: magic
Yes, I've been kicked back to my profile when in the middle of reading (or maybe replying, I'm not honestly sure) to a discussion. I haven't really been able to discern a pattern or what triggers it, so I haven't mentioned it. I thought it was just me.
As far as constructive feedback:
1. Most important: please either darken or enlarge (or both) the text of the actual posts. It's too small and too monochromatic right now.
2. Please do a little something more to make new posts more conspicuous. When you're looking at your MyChow page it's great that the name of the category is red AND that there's the little arrow, but I think that's too subtle. Maybe at least make the arrow red?
And it's even more subtle when you're scanning the posts within a category--you don't even have the benefit of the category in red.
3. I'm not crazy about the "preview" of (collapsed) posts you've already read within a discussion because it makes it hard to identify the new posts, but I suppose I could live with it.
Maybe instead of having the "preview" of previously-read posts ever present, could you make the text appear if you hover over the collapsed post with your mouse?
4. Is there a bug with the editing feature right now? I can't seem to edit my posts once I exit the discussion... I like to have the freedom to edit my posts even after leaving the discussion. Sometimes I leave to go find a link to another discussion so I can edit that into my post, etc.
5. I don't mind the disappearing/reappearing link/flag/edit/reply, but I do worry how newbies will find them... I imagine I'll adapt.
I know some people probably worked really hard on this for six months. I don't mean to be negative and I hope I'm not coming across that way. I'm an old hound and new tricks come slowly to me.
Thank you!
re: The Dairy Queen
"3. I'm not crazy about the "preview" of (collapsed) posts you've already read within a discussion because it makes it hard to identify the new posts, but I suppose I could live with it. "
My eyes are excellent. No vision issues. It is simply tricky, as you suggest. Not sure we should have to live with it though. It should not be that way.
re: magic
re: DGresh
re: Ruth Lafler
As I said, I could probably get used to the ever-present preview of previously-read posts within a discussion, but I'd like to see it be de-emphasized compared to the new posts within the discussion. Scrolling this thread in search of the new posts is a perfect example of why this matters.
Maybe make the text of the preview of collapsed/previously-read posts a lighter shade of gray? Or make the text appear only in mousing-over instead of being ever-present? Or, maybe just making the text of NEW posts bigger and/or darker would be sufficient emphasize new posts in comparison to the previously-read posts? NOt sure.
Not sure. But, it's not a deal-breaker for me.
re: DGresh
re: DGresh
re: DGresh
I agree with too narrow, too-large fonts, and too much wasted space.
If you want to make it more usable on mobile devices, why not do what most forums do, and present a different version to mobile devices? Maybe more people are visiting on these devices, but that doesn't mean that those of us on normal computers should have to suffer.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all of the comments here. We're listening and working on some changes based on the most frequent and constructive feedback we're hearing. You'll be seeing adjustments in the next couple of days, and more over the next few weeks. That said, we are not planning on moving back to the old design. Our goal is to make improvements on what you see here more frequently moving forward, working iteratively.
The only thing I'd like to underscore is that we are listening, and it's a lot easier to hear feedback that is actionable and concrete. Thanks to all who numbered their thoughtful responses and are working with us to improve the experience for everyone.
Dave MP
re: Dave MP
re: LindaWhit
re: barryg
re: LindaWhit
The only time I access Chowhound on my phone is when we're on vacation & I need to look up a restaurant or thread I saved for our trip. And that is usually only once because it's so cumbersome to navigate I say forget it & do w/o the info. A dedicated app would solve that problem, while leaving the conventional website alone so those of us who use it the most can continue doing so.
re: barryg
I have an ipad and I have the same issues w the new format on my ipad as I do on my macbook:
- grey on grey is simply unworkable. After 10 mins my eyes are tearing and I'm getting a headache - I don't otherwise have vision issues, don't require glasses.
- large font of headers and white space translates to minimimal relevant content on a page
- other font (eg poster's names) far too small
Irrespective of my ipad and smartphone experience though, it is neither practical nor realistic to compose COTM reviews, restauraunt reviews, trip reports and the like from a mobile device. While this re-launch was positioned as "maintaining the functionality that desktop users require" it is abundantly clear that the latter was simply not a priority, or a consideration.
What we have is a smart phone app that's passing itself off as a website. I keep looking for the option to select the "full website" version.
re: barryg
re: LindaWhit
re: Quine
Seems that way.
I mean, I *KNOW* they're busy. But a heads-up to the users to give us some idea of what's going to happen would help stave off the continual "this sucks, why did you change it, change it back!" comments.
It's a food message board. How about throwing us a little amuse bouche?
re: LindaWhit
Basically, Some PTB decided that this is it and that's all. Now CH looks awful and is totally useless on my phone, I am a Android person. So will not be using it on my phone any more. On my laptop, I have a width of 11 inches on my screen, and the subject/content is only using 5.5 of that space at 100% zoom? Why? And it is not ads that I have blocked, I checked it out in an incognito window.
Others have outright said this "great new design" is unbearable enough that they are taking a break or finding a new site (Yep, I have that new site already picked out). And that is just those of us who care enough to even comment, the lurkers or the vacillaters are just going to slide out the door.
re: Quine
I don't agree that that's what we were told. Change is inevitable, on any site. And, I agree that feedback like "THIS NEW DESIGN SUCKS, BRING BACK THE OLD DESIGN" and the like is not helpful. He acknowledged our complaints, and said they are working on addressing them.
Also, the changes don't happen overnight, and I personally would rather they be working on making the fixes, versus responding to hundreds of messages on the message board. Responding to all these posts and giving continual updates would be a full time job in itself.
re: Dave MP
New site ,do I actually like it?NO
Navigation ,all is fine on the desk top,tablet and laptop
THE GRAY ON GRAY COLOUR,trimmed in gray is an eye sore,solved for the moment.CH through rose coloured glasses,who woulda thunk it.My Vizslas and Chesapeake Bay Retriever are not interested in who is or is not blameless for mixed messages sent wearing shooting glasses in the house.
Does it matter? NOT A WHIT I'll get used to it etc just like every other thing that mucks with my habits.It doesn't seem any harder than my electric bill,now two pages instead of one WITH LESS STATISTICAL INFORMATION to make room for 2/3 of a page of propaganda AND PICTURES.
re: Dave MP
Okay, to start with the most obvious -- changes that have no particular point/functionality:
1. having to mouse over the reply, etc. links
2. changing the specific "boards" to the meaningless "categories"
Things that have negative functionality:
1. having the link to the "latest post" rather than the "first unread post" -- I don't know if this is fixable, but it's completely worthless as-is, since there are unread posts scattered up and down the page. Since you've added a "sort by number of posts" functionality that's going to encourage people to add to existing long threads, it becomes even more unworkable.
re: Dave MP
DaveMP -- for what it's worth, I do think that despite the deluge of (mostly negative) feedback you've been receiving, you can make the site better than it was before if you implement the changes that are being discussed.
It's remarkable how much agreement you see in these threads about things that need to be improved & things that were better before.
There is one fundamental issue I have with your approach, which is the idea that you need to change the non-mobile UX to make it better for mobile devices. I actually really dislike your mobile implementation, and I really disliked it the last time you updated your mobile implementation -- because both times you seemed to actively discourage the ability to scour through lots of content very quickly. You seem to have translated that concept to the non-mobile site too (e.g. so few topics on a single page).
To me, that is the main thing to which if you don't fix pretty quickly, I will likely lose interest because of the usability problems that brings. A lot of the other things (e.g. the mouse-over requirement on Reply / Edit etc) are things I don't really get or like, but can learn to live with.
re: Dave MP
re: Dave MP
"That said, we are not planning on moving back to the old design. Our goal is to make improvements on what you see here more frequently moving forward, working iteratively.
The only thing I'd like to underscore is that we are listening, and it's a lot easier to hear feedback that is actionable and concrete. Thanks to all who numbered their thoughtful responses and are working with us to improve the experience for everyone."
Sure you're listening. Based on the overwhelming negative responses, if you really were listening, you would go back to the old design, at least until you have addressed the issues that so severely affect usability for so many. BTW, I'd love to know what alternate universe your beta testers came from, if they thought this new "design" was a good idea.
That said, the one thing I like is the first sentence (or partial sentence) being readable in collapsed posts. It's a timesaver in deciding which posts to uncollapse.
The things I hate (and this is by no means complete, as I consider the site to be so unusable that I haven't used it enough since the change to get really familiar):
-- Enormous thread titles
-- Gray-on-gray
-- Small text in posts (and even smaller when posting!)
-- All that extra padding around open posts
-- Getting rid of the red "NEW" button and replacing it with the stupid curved arrow. So unintuitive. As others have said, if you have to explain features in an interface, there's a problem. The "NEW" button took up too many pixels?
Some of the other changes mentioned sound like terrible ideas as well, but until some of the basic problems are fixed, I'm gone.
re: Steve Green
re: Steve Green
Beautiful, Steve. I also like the 'first sentence (or partial sentence) being readable in collapsed posts. It's a timesaver in deciding which posts to uncollapse.' That is a good addition.
I also agree with all you don't like.
I guess what is a bummer about this is that, clearly, whomever is in charge made the decision to try to get new readers/users/whatever regardless of how many stalwarts they lose. Apple does this at times, my NPR station just did this, making wild new changes no one likes and their response being, 'We are catering to new people, screw you people who have supported us for so long." Chowhound seems to be doing it, too.
As a long time supporter and poster, I sincerely am not sure I can hang around if the threads continue to look as ridiculous as they do now with huge letters and so few posts per page. It's insulting.
re: Tom P
What I don't understand is how this will keep new users? Won't they be annoyed by the same things that we are on this site without even knowing what the site was previously like? I can't speak for how it works on a tablet (come Christmas day I will!) but I visit Chowhound on my iMac and iPhone and I prefer the old version.
re: Tom P
>>what is a bummer about this is that, clearly, whomever is in charge made the decision to try to get new readers/users/whatever regardless of how many stalwarts they lose.<<
It's a tried and true policy at CBS to alienate your existing viewers because you have some pie-in-the-sky notion that by doing so, you'll attract new viewers. And then when you recognize the strategy doesn't work, you make your program (or, in this case, website) so awful, whoever's left watching it is glad when it's finally canceled (cf. As the World Turns, Guiding Light).
But there's not a finite number of spaces available on the internet, CBS, so your applying this policy here is even stupider than on TV.
re: Dave MP
"Thanks to all who numbered their thoughtful responses and are working with us to improve the experience for everyone."
#1: What does "numbered their ... responses" mean?
#2: What qualifies as "working with [you] to improve ...", as opposed to working against?
#3: What does "Our goal is to make improvements on what you see here more frequently moving forward, working iteratively" mean in proper English?
I am running across a bug - or at least I assume it's a bug - when I'm reading a thread with collapsed posts and I want to expand one that is collapsed. When I click on the post, instead of expanding it, the entire thread will close and I'm being taken back to the page I was on before (the list of threads).
One more thing -- count me among the people who think "catagories" is dumb. Isn't "recipes" a category? Isn't "videos" a category? Isn't "blogs" a category? What makes the things in "categories" catagories? They're message boards! So why don't you say so?!
I love Chowhound. I am not adverse to change, at all. But this looks like it was designed for 3rd graders. Are we all that lowest common denominator that we need such large print, yet so many things hidden? I loved how when I came to chowhound, the boards I used most were right at the top. And you've hidden the top threads on each board. Yet everything is now so big you can't fit many things on the page so everything is not as accessible as it used to be. This is a design to have to suffer to get used to rather than lifting the site to a new level.
Hi Dave, aside from reading the tiny little date stamp to the right of the red sticky topics, how do we know if there's a new post in there? Blue room posted the January COTM nominations thread after the release and I only noticed because I happened to see the topic bouncing around on the chowhound home page.
Thank you,
re: The Dairy Queen
re: jen kalb
Pardon my (perpetually acute) confusion, but if you go to the Home Cooking category, you'll see two red topics pinned near the top there:
QUICK LINKS: Cookbook and Dish of the Month 1d
FAQ: Guidelines for the Home Cooking Board Aug 29, 2012
There is no "number of posts" or little arrow there as there is for regular posts (am I overlooking something????)... Just the titles of the links and the tiny little time stamp indicating the last update off to the right.
So, unless you're constantly clicking on these red "pinned" links to see if there's anything new in there OR paying attention to the tiny little time stamp off to the right, how do you know there's anything new in there to look at?
re: The Dairy Queen
thats right. it takes a lot of action to get access to the actual threads which is definitely not going to encourage maximum participation. Unlike the stickies on other boards, which are not interactive and do not change much, this one is highly important and needs to be bigger and show activity openly, as before
re: The Dairy Queen
We've changed the focus of those sticky posts to reference information and relatively static links to things, rather than ongoing discussions. We wanted to still provide links to the Cookbook and Dish of the Month thread in someplace people could always find them, but the threads where the discussion is happening will be floating on the boards, not stickied up top.
re: Jacquilynne
re: Jacquilynne
I guess the feedback that you are getting is that the approach is not fully worked through and will probably reduce participation. given the activity levels on the board, the threads can float out of view and get lost unles htey are more prominently placed or highlighted. It is substantively different than all the rest of the stickies (I agree that the de-emplhasis of the rest is a good idea)
1. It is very confusing to determine what threads have been read and where there are new posts. A "new" icon would be more user friendly than the arrow or the shades of grey.
2. Font in reply box is too small and serif (in IE9, anyway)
3. Font for thread titles and time of last reply is way too big, while font for author and date started is way too small.
4. The light grey font colors are very difficult to read---nearly no contrast on the white or grey background.
5. I do not find the navigation any easier than the last design--too many clicks to get to the boards I want to read.
6. Avatars only appear on the top level posts... why? I love seeing the avatars!
I am sure that a lot of hard work went into these changes, however it does not seem like many of the avid posters here are happy with the changes (including me). I hope that the powers that be consider the opinions of the long time posters and tweak this new design to truly be user friendly. Otherwise the content may suffer.
OK, here's my thoughts after actually using the site for a bit. I am an admin on another non-cooking, and not nearly as active site that just underwent a design, so I'm especially aware of how easy some things are (or aren't) to change.
Overall, I don't mind the new design. The "unread posts" color thing doesn't bother me (ie the two different greys). I also like the "hover over" feature to reply to a post, and the "teaser lines". I also have found it to be easier to follow the threads that have a lot of "sub threads" going on, as there appears to be more steps for replies (I hope that makes sense).
Here's what I think should be changed/improved upon:
-As already mentioned numerous times, it would be nice to see more threads on each page. I would think that just decreasing the font size of the thread titles would allow for this, and should be an easy fix.
-I also miss having the "day" dividers. Not really applicable on the very busy boards like Home Cooking, but useful on boards like my local Mountain States board that only get a couple posts a day. That way you can see if a thread is days old, without having to rely on looking at the date.
-Also as already mentioned, the font color of the grey is not good. I have excellent vision, and am using a wide screen monitor, and it causes eye-strain even for me. A simple change to black would alleviate this problem.
-Another already mentioned, the font size in this reply box is too small. It is causing eye-strain as I type this reply.
-I really really miss the "reply to original post" button at the bottom of the page.
Otherwise, the rest of the changes are fine and doable, at least for me. The only issues really are aesthetic ones, for me anyway.
Looks like the design is already being tweaked a bit, but it's still wasteful of space and my patience. With the narrow type field and large-font headers, most topic headers run to two lines and some to three. The line breaks work against quick intelligibility and slow down reading.
another shitty bug is when one starts typing a reply, it's written over whomever you're replying to, making it illegible.
the fact that one has to scroll to the top of the page to reply to the OP?
please. you got a lot of work on your hands.
re: linguafood
Not sure what you mean by "it's written over whomever you're replying to, making it illegible." If I hit the reply button everything below it scrolls down, and a reply box pops up. Similar to how it worked before, although the fonts don't look as nice.
Actually the new reply box has a big benefit from my point of view: The old system's dynamic reply box would disappear if I accidentally hit the back button for whatever reason. This caused me to occasionally lose a large post I'd been working on for a while. The new one sticks around if you go back and then forward again, thereby preventing at least some forms of user frustration.
re: davis_sq_pro
ah, ok. it disappears now once one starts typing. the first reply i wrote today was writing over the gray text "replying to....", and it looked like letter salad. sorry. i guess that's been fixed now.
still hate the overall design, but I'm clearly not alone in that. i'll wait and see what (if anything) you fix in the next few days.
sorry it's so unpopular '-(
re: davis_sq_pro
I'm sorry, but the new design is just awful. Way too much wasted space, less content presented per page on a PC, and everything, from the font choices to the color scheme makes it extremely fatiguing on the eyes.
Many people will bitch any time what they are used to changes, but in this case, it's not just that. It's become significantly less convenient to use on a PC, which is the only way I, and I imagine most people, will actually provide content. I know mobile is the new "thing", but people aren't going to be typing any detailed posts on a phone or tablet. Driving away the primary vehicle for people to provide this is going to kill the site.
Okay, I tried. I really did. I popped back on a few times last night and now this morning, and I just can't. It hurts my eyes and there's nothing intuitive about the functionality. Plus, the post column is much too narrow, and it looks like it was just plunked down in the middle of a design created on an entirely different platform. There's absolutely no continuity between this part and the rest of the clutter bordering it, and it's all just a clunky mess to my eye. If the site had looked like this when I first stumbled upon it years ago I wouldn't have bothered sticking around.
I know you all worked on this for a long time so I hate to trash your effort, but I'll be taking a vacation from Hounding for now...all the while hoping this new design goes the way of the last one so I can get back to enjoying it & participating.
I miss the separation by day on the boards pages. There are some boards with less activity that I catch up on every few days rather than daily, and I liked being able to easily see how far back I'm looking. Since I may not open any of the posts as I scan the board, I often can't tell by color (dark/light gray) where I left off. I realize you have the date of the last post listed for each one, but I am finding it much harder to find the spot where I left off if I have to calculate the date and watch for it, since the day of the week is no longer displayed anywhere, and all the posts are running together.
This is a case where I'd rather see some extra space taken up for the benefit of clarity of the posts.
(My very first reactions were FONT IS TOO BIG, where is the "new" icon, and too much space is being wasted, but those have been thoroughly covered by everyone else. I'm trying to get used to the light/dark gray differences but it's definitely a big adjustment.)
re: hbg1
But they're not boards anymore, they're "categories". Urgh! I guess that's yet another way to dilute CH into Chow. I wouldn't be surprised if, before too long, the term Chowhound were completely eliminated from this site.
Right now, I'm only following this thread to see what will happen with the new design. I can't be bothered to deal with this horrible new interface.
I like the link at the top with "latest post," but you need to go a LOT further with it. Unfortunately, if you click it and there are some "older" posts than the "newest" further up, you miss posts. Please, please, please, make it float down the lefthand side of the screen so it can be used to navigate ALL of the posts since the user's last visit to the thread. This would be a huge upgrade.
I like the new design - though I would agree that I'd like to see more postings on each page - there is an awful lot of blank space. It makes things jump to the next page very quickly when you are just browsing the recent posts...
I used to go to the bottom of the page and scroll and read my up.
The topic's font is overly large, and the board it belongs to is a bit small. Why change the old font proportions dramatically? Harder to skim multiple thread titles and harder to try mentally filtering the topics on the main chowhound page.
Also hate that there's less topics per page.
The color scheme and other graphics are alright. I currently feel indifferent, but will probably warm to them.
I tried the site on my ipod touch this morning (the only mobile I use,) to see if the experience was better for me than on my laptop. It's not. (And I don't really contribute content of any length on my ipod on any site, I would never type up a restaurant review or even a recipe on it, for example, so the experience on an actual computer and not a device is far more important to me.)
I thought maybe I was just tired last night and that's why it was causing eye strain but now it's morning and I'm well rested with a cup of coffee in me and it's still really unpleasant. (I'm really trying to give it a chance here... but I really really think it's awful.)
I'm not trying to be rude by saying this but it reminds me of the early very unsophisticated message boards of the AOL era... and there are good reasons they don't look or operate like that any longer.
A roll back would be a good idea.
I'm usually one to give changes a chance, but this new format is really horrible. All the different shades of gray really do give me a headache. I HATE, hate, hate the large font on the topics screen. I rarely search past the first page on any topic and this will make it worse. I find it hard to find the new replies on a board, the colors blend too much. The reply font size in incredibly small and hard to read. I miss the "new" bubble for threads that I'm watching.
What I wish Chowhound had done is added a like button for posts I like but don't want to comment on. Add an option to be removed from a thread I no longer want updates on.
I don't know who these beta testers are, but they didn't do a very good job. Chowhound should have recruited those of us who are most active.
Poor showing Chowhound IT dept. If you're not going to make it better, at least don't make worse.
This redesign may work on an iPad or iPhone but it is WRETCHED in the Droid environment. I can not pinch down the excessive size on anything which makes reading and replying almost impossible. Also ehere is the link to the profile page in the mobile version?
This "update" is hideous and unusable. My boss would have taken discplinary action against me if I released something as poorly executed as this redesign. It has no redeeming features. CH is following in the footsteps of the Food Network and dumbing the site down beyond belief.
re: DiningDiva
re: JoanN
Thanks JoanN, I tried that this morning but didn't see the link to the profile page.
I just checked my smartphone again and clicking on the 3 bars doesn't yield a link to the profile page on the Droid platform. There are links to everything *except* the profile page :-(
I know that each and every Site design change that Chow-CH has done, in the 6 years I've been a member has met with multiple amounts of dislike. This is now the worst.
Instead of making an Chow app for smart phones and tablets, you have made the site itself an app that fails quite badly. I just tried this on my phone and just like here, it fails. It is TOO BIG on my phone. Everything about it is much worst, now. I've been sliding away from CH, more and more this past year, due to a few factors, most editorial, but now this "design" shows that Bling is now where CH is headed and content is going out the door.
re: Quine
>>> I know that each and every Site design change that Chow-CH has done, in the 6 years I've been a member has met with multiple amounts of dislike. This is now the worst. <<<
Agreed. however, since nothing ever changed from those changes, I'm confident nothing will ever change here . . . god forbid, one admits to making a(n expensive programming) mistake -- fear of the pink slip trumps all.
re: Quine
on my new Android, the site is much more accessible with this change - it can more quickly be properly sized and is locked in a viewable position and doesnt float right and left, However, following threads and moving around my boards (sorry, "categories" - I guess the PTB thought that "board" was an outmoded term - is much less intuitive
It seems like all these issues like sizing for the different ways the user accesses should be dealt with by the site software designers - I would question why WE should have to address this on our individual devices. Its not like the tablet is the only way Chowhounds view this, at all.....
The lack of any real beta testing (or responses from those who beta tested, if they exist) and the very few responses from Chow managers or product team members regarding these "downgrades" is rather telling.
You're going for the quick-hit folks vs. the long-time posters with your redesign. Quick hits come and go; the long-time posters are part of your bread and butter. Those long-time posters (me) will come here less frequently because it's just too unwieldy to use.
re: LindaWhit
re: LindaWhit
re: Foody4life
re: Foody4life
BUG report for mods:
using IE9/Win7 laptop. Edit button functions only while still active in the current thread. Example, I post a reply, the reply appears in the current thread and I can click Edit to make a change. The Edit box opens and the reply is available for editing as normal.
If I navigate back (out of the thread) and click to re-open the thread, the Edit button does not function for my most recent post(s). All within the two hour timeframe.
Hate it. I suspect that I'll become a much less frequent reader/poster. May still post when I have a question that needs answering but much less likely to contribute to threads started by others because the functionality is so much diminished, for all the reasons others have mentioned.
Just wondering where the Report button is now residing. Not that I'm about to report anyone...
P.S. Just now noticing that the "Edit" window has been removed. That's a [i]real[/i] mistake.
Is it possible to give 'hounds the option of linking the device they use to the layout(s) offered? Such that tablet users are given the most appropriate page design; laptop users another.
I consult Chowhound most regularly on a large, desktop screen, and so the new design appears quite wrong: wrought as though I the reader were a tall, skinny model (which you have to admit is not quite right for a food site) rather than a plump & happy gourmand.
I'm really frustrated that the board pages only show 20 threads now. I visit the my home board several times a day, if only for a few seconds to see what's new. I do a quick scan of threads with new posts to see if there is one that I'm interested in opening. With only 20 threads showing, I now have to navigate to a second or even third page to see which threads have new content. I am much less likely to navigate to that second page and will therefore miss out on content.
The font size and egregious use of white space harkens back to the last major redesign -- which was modified quickly to address these exact same concerns.
On the opposite end of the font size spectrum is how ridiculously small you've made the user names in the new posts. I realize that CBS is catering to casual users who couldn't care less about who posted something, but it really matters to me (and I'm guessing to the many long time posters). I've gotten to know the posters on the boards I frequent and I know who's posts are more valuable to me than others.
While I see value in seeing a preview of older posts in a thread, it's VERY difficult to distinguish new posts in all that sea of text.
I'll just leave with these parting thoughts: Chowhound gets visits because it provides thoughtful and knowledgable content provided by regular posters. Redesigning the site for lurkers and one-hit users and ignoring the needs of the regular posters may increase traffic in the short term, but in the long term, you will see a decrease in participation from regular users and therefore a decrease in the useful content that draws eyes here in the first place.
re: TorontoJo
Chowhound gets visits because it provides thoughtful and knowledgable content provided by regular posters. Redesigning the site for lurkers and one-hit users and ignoring the needs of the regular posters may increase traffic in the short term, but in the long term, you will see a decrease in participation from regular users and therefore a decrease in the useful content that draws eyes here in the first place.
re: LindaWhit
re: LindaWhit
+1,000,000. THIS. Chowhound is one of my trusted online sources for all things food, because I recognise the user names of regular posters - and after years of reading their posts, I respect what they have to say.
Those user names are a very useful part of how I navigate if I've been offline for a few days, and I'm really disappointed that someone feels the need for valuable information like that to just disappear from view.... I wish that the Powers That Be had considered consulting with the user community before making such sweeping modifications.
re: LindaWhit
I haven't spent much time on the site since the redesign, normally I check in a few times a day but I have been reading this thread for only a few minutes and my head already hurts, even before I started typing this reply in what appears to be a freaking 5-point font. So for me, it's already reduced my traffic in the short term.
re: TorontoJo
I, too, am annoyed that there are so few threads per page. Even worse is that when I open the home page on my cell phone, I only get the 20 threads without ANY means to go to page 2. You only get one page!!!
Ditto just about every other complaint here, especially taking away the old "NEW" icon.
re: TorontoJo
People who post on the site should be treated like customers/clients. After all, we contribute financially to the site in two ways:
1. We click on the site. We click on the site a lot. Those clicks generate revenue for the site.
2. We provide content FOR FREE that the site then uses to generate revenue. According to the stats posted yesterday, almost 80 percent of the visits to the site are to the chowhound message boards, not to the portions of the site created by paid staff.
So why aren't we being treated like valued customers or clients?
They say they asked people to test the site, but apparently no one who is an actual regular user participated. Or at least, no one who will admit to it. I know I responded to the last request they sent out for people to give opinions on the site and got no response.
re: Ruth Lafler
re: Ruth Lafler
re: mcf
Agreed on the tweaking vs. full rip-out.
The claim is "The design that you are seeing is the product of 6 months of work and planning. We've conducted user testing with both casual and long-term users"........
and yet NOT ONE regular/long-time user has spoken up about being part of this user testing.
If beta testing by regular and long-time users had *actually* been done, perhaps so much tweaking wouldn't be necessary.
re: LindaWhit
I'm in total agreement on those points, and it really does lead me to believe that we non mobile users (or those of us with older eyeballs) are not seen as a desirable nor important demographic to TPTB.
Given our spending ability and intense interest in food, that may be unwise, but it's their web site, and if they're trying to make us feel less than wanted or welcome, this was a very strong salvo. :-/
re: mcf
re: Ruth Lafler
re: mcf
Nope. They're willing to admit they got the details wrong, but so far unwilling to admit the whole concept is wrong. Among other things, they could restore the old design while they work out the kinks and actually do some real beta testing (the fact that they've fixed some things that were both obvious and easy to fix means they clearly did NOT do that) on the new one.
Also, they could do some serious thinking about which parts of the new design are good functional design and which are attempts to be "cool" and "contemporary" that are really only important to (1) programmers who like to play with code, and (2) people who have to make presentations about their cool new site design to their bosses.
re: Ruth Lafler
I couldn't agree with you more. The first format was so easy to read and use, the one prior to this was worse but I could deal with it, and this is some designer's idea of what's best for us...the IT equivalent of the labels on the cans of generic food. Unfortunately, their bosses are just as clueless as they are. Reminds me of the all-but-unreadable new GMail.
re: Ruth Lafler
re: mariacarmen
Right now, I a, looking at 4.5 inches of thread in ocean of wasted snowblind Blank screen (available screen width for me is 12 in. So this is a good idea how? And on my android phone, it is so big and you have to tap dance (literally) to try to size down *each* page you want to read, it's a total fail. Hope they didn't pay those beta testers too much. Ah heck, they were probably only the "moderators" anyway.
As for the fact we (CH) provide 80% of the traffic and CONTENT on Chow.com, is VERY reverent because half the stuff in Chow, is a rewrite of some CH thread!
re: Ruth Lafler
Very hard to read if you older...You must be going after the Hipseters
If older comments left in partial vew and latest comments fully opened are going to be the same font/color a thread that exceeds say 20 comments the thread starts to appear visually confusing and mashed together. In the light of day, with morning eyes on, the thread is too wordy visually. Consider a color diff btwn older and new comments. But if you took the partial comment on older remarks away every long thread under this redesign would be easier on the eyes. Right now it looks like cartoon caption bubbles floating on white space.
Seriously? SERIOUSLY? The new layout is a disaster:
- needlessly excessive use of white space
- fonts less readable
- indentation / threading less apparent
- information density needlessly diminished by at least 50%
- count of posts in thread and time of posting comically exaggerated.
Some of this might be understandable if the appearance was actually improved, but it's almost an excursion into early (pre-2006) CH history. Very disappointed that it now requires twice as much effort to engage the site content.
A couple of things on an iPhone.
1) I think someone posted already but there is no way to see more than five pages in a category. This is a pain as now the COTM and DOTM threads aren't sticky.
2) I'm trying to find threads that I have clicked the star button on but I can't find them. Am I missing something?
I like that you can easily link to the latest post instead of having to hunt for it. I also kind of liked the preview of the posts and being able to expand them if I want to continue reading. It would be nice though, to be able to collapse any particular post as well.
re: AntarcticWidow
re: AntarcticWidow
The problem with Latest Post is that is the LAST post - and if there were 30 replies prior to that last post? You still have to scroll back to find those open, unread posts.
But I agree on the "Collapse Read" button. They *used* to have that - but for whatever reason, too it away. :-/
I'm assuming the inch of dead space on each side of my laptop screen is there so that it will fill the screen on a smart phone. But that begs the question, why wouldn't you just create an app or a dedicated site for mobile users? Was mobile.chowhound.com taken? This is asinine. It doesn't include unique usability features in a mobile environment nor is it appealing on my laptop.
I've never enjoyed the CH mobile experience on my iPhone, but that was fine because I could read there and then save my replies for my laptop. Now you've ruined the laptop experience too. Thanks a lot.
re: soypower
I only use an iPhone (laptop died recently) and the new design is an improvement on the old for me. I agree with you that it would have been far simpler to create a mobile version and not change the existing version so much. An app would have been even better and I would have happily paid for it.
re: Frizzle
re: barryg
While it is highly unlikely that anyone in Engineering will care, Adobe InDesign CS6 makes this ridiculously easy to do. I sat through a demo that took about 15 minutes to produce a page that fit on 3 different screens - laptop, tablet and smartphone. Maybe the designers need to upgrade to CS6?
re: soypower
re: Robert Lauriston
I defer to your understanding of the technical matters involved. I'm still perplexed at the decision to keep one site for all users though. It just makes no sense since almost all other websites I frequent have either a mobile app or a dedicated mobile site. The ones that don't have either of those, format their page for desktop users. This is the first one I've seen that does it ass-backwards.
I see some people are positive on the first line being displayed in COMPACT mode. I think that is a GIANT mistake too ... in a long thread such as this, the extra text makes it much more computationally expensive to notice short new replies which are expanded.
having a "global" piece of data like a subject field be visible in a preview mode may make sense but displaying the first line does not serve a purpose ... the point of the preview is to give you a "hint" whether to bother to click or not. something like a subject line in an email may give you a hint what the message is about. the first lime doesnt really do that ... it doesnt signal enough about the continuation. it doesnt add much more than the name of the author.
i'm still laughing about this thread. 75%. about 25% sad.
i didn't complain the last time you guys changed things (well, i did because i couldn't make the one-click access to my saved boards link - an actual problem, which STILL doesn't work - but not about general aesthetics. but this is ugly, hard on the eyes (yeah, i got a headache, even though i thought people who were saying that were being dramatic), too busy, counter-intuitive and not user friendly for the home user nor the phone user.
i particularly hate the preview on each reply to a thread. it makes it very difficult to distinguish it from a new post - there ARE times when a reply is just one line! this feature makes for the messiest change on this site. it all feels very .... childish. of course, i'm sure you're all saying that about all of us. but perhaps listening to your most ardent, loyal followers would be prudent.
I absolutely hate it!!! This is a detestable abomination. The very large bold type is such a distraction that it kills my desire to remain on this forum. I don't know what the purpose is that you intended by this nonsensical design but it is likely to alienate a lot of long time CH users like myself.
So long & goodbye.
This thread is quite the lynch mob...I'm going to focus on being constructive.
I like the preview text in collapsed posts. I'm clicking a lot less to get context on new replies, and I appreciate that.
Agreed about issues with font size - if you want a more mobile-readable site, or even more ad exposure, fine, make the fonts bigger. But make ALL of them bigger. I don't understand why the title of the thread is HUGE while the last poster info is tiny. This is the part that makes no sense to me, from either a usability or a design perspective.
Finally, why can't we see avatars on threaded replies? I only see them on the OP and replies to the OP - once a conversation begins, it's hard to keep straight who is talking in the subthread without their avatars next to their comments.
re: Wahooty
I also like the preview text - very helpful.
Mobile and larger screen size sites should be separate - as is standard.
I was also wondering about the avatars on replies.
Another positive is that even though this thread has grown to over 200 posts, it rendered very quickly. Before, anything over 200 posts took a while to load, even on a cable modem connection.
Edited to add (after editing a typo)...
Another quirk is that the initial response box is tiny type but when one edits a post the typeface is larger (thankfully).
I find that I wait before reading anything on the site because the pages look like they're still loading, as if the white spaces are going to fill in and the text is going to snap into a "normal" appearance.
Plus, it's annoyingly buggy -- replies don't post, or they can't be edited, or you click on something that kicks you out of the thread completely.
re: Ruth Lafler
I figured out what the "problem" is: the wide margin to the left of the topic heading looks like a space that something should be loading into. Subconsciously I'm waiting for something to load into that space. I suppose I'll get used to it, but it's an odd design element.
re: Ruth Lafler
"problem" is: the wide margin
I doubt we will get used to it.I don't think it is a permanent fixture as is.
I see it more as an unoccupied row of papered store fronts in a newly finished strip mall.Billboard space for sale waiting for Ad $.
You build it and they will come.
There was also something from Jacquilynne about some use of it in a response to Caroline1's question regarding the old "who's reading" box at each thread that went missing.
re: lcool
I wasn't referring to the excess empty space on the left side of the screen (which seems to be OS specific, since I don't have that problem on either IE or Chrome on my desktop, but do on my laptop). I'm referring to the space inside the box for the topic immediately to the left of the first letter. It's big. It's a spot that seems designed to have some kind of symbol. When you open the topic it's the space where the avatar and like/FB/Twitter buttons are, but on the topic listing page it's just a blank area that looks like it should have something (like "new").
re: Ruth Lafler
OK I follow your specific "empty space" answer
I am no guru,geek or expert in this stuff ,but
If in the future they were to offer isolated,limiting options for "partial" print,share etc and or email,3 posts instead of an entire thread without going through hoops and tools to do it an icon install space needs to be there.Better to add an icon/option to existing space that we are done bitching about than f8ck with us yet again,the re-tooled PAGE.
HELL maybe,BIG maybe there will even be an icon/star/word system that actually FACILITATES a system that works for an internal CH searches.
Just a bit of forward,proactive thinking.....and I maybe dead wrong
I'm an iPhone only user. I've looked forward to this redesign for a long time as it was hard to participate with the old design.
I do see some improvements for mobile users but I have to agree on the font being huge.
Also, is there any way iPhone users can upload photographs to their posts? I was hoping that might be among the improvements.
I can figure out and get used to the navigation and other changes but I echo the posters who mention headaches and eye strain. I don't know enough about website design to know why it happens, but I'm finding it difficult to spend a significant amount of time reading any threads, especially a long one like this. My eyes hurt and a headache is starting up after going through just some of this thread :(
.. EDIT no workie for me no matter how hard I click my mouse! Can't edit recent post (<30mins old) using IE9/Win7 desktop
.. GREY / GREY screen background will drop my daily use from more time than it should be - to flash on off once a day.
.. NEW icon on thread list must return. Different shades of grey for thread list, arrow in count boxes, all suck.
.. MOBILE site ease of use is important, but a lot of us (and a big value of this site) are more extensive posters. We use a laptop or desktop and tend to share longer reports or reviews.
If I can't stand looking at the screen for >3 mins, I'm less inclined to post a review. Alternative is turning Chow posts into the 3 word twitter length yelp posts. The Diner, Anytown USA "food was good."
Would love to hear which "users" beta-tested. What they liked and what they may have disliked in the process. You'd figure they'd chime in here...
re: Foody4life
re: LindaWhit
re: LindaWhit
Closest I could find ... http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh...
re: LindaWhit
Yup, it seems those 'beta testers' are no one we recognize from people who hang around here alot....
Haven't seen any log-in from someone who is a dedicated chowhounder on common threads, who is saying they 'participated' in any beta-testing' or asked for their opinion about how this should look/work for those of us who USE THIS SITE?
This is actually kinda comical. My 5 second reaction to your 6mo redesign was "cant see enough threads on screen without scrolling" and "where is the NEW icon"?
And apparently this is the same "5 second" reaction ~everyone else had.
Did nobody question either of these in the 6mos of testing?
Did you confuse "try to make more mobile friendly" for "must make worse design choice than much ridicules recent University of California logo change?"
Both seem to be textbook failures of "What problem are you trying to solve?"
Is there some place to vote to see whether the current design is polling say 90-10% against or closer to say 95% against?
ok tnx,
re: psb
Well, psb, all I can say is you got my "like' button. Not trying to be simplistic, but WHAT is this thing going on here?
What problem WAS CH trying to solve? Why can't we see each other's posts and the following threads of othes posts and response's easier if there was supposed to be an improvement.
I guess, the core question IS, WHAT was the core improvements meant to BE? If some MOD could explain the point of all this, that would really, really help.
Otherwise, open up a MOD thread for what feedback you need about your intensions, and how it has failed, and what you were looking for....
re: psb
I just came into this thread again by clicking the "Last Reply" - the last person replying was TeRReT with this post:
HOWEVER - there were about 8 other posts I hadn't read in this thread, some that were timestamped prior to TeRReT's post, some that were timestamped after.
The "Last Reply" is completely useless as it will go to the LAST REPLY, wherever that might be, NOT the "First Unread" post, to which it *should* link for each User.
By sending me to the last post in the thread, it skips over several replies to various posts of mine, as well as other replies, and I *still* have to scroll back to see if there was anything else written earlier in the thread.
I'd rather have "Last Reply" actually go to the First Unread post in any particular thread. Otherwise, why bother having it? I'd rather use the PG DN key to quickly scroll through a long thread.
re: LindaWhit
re: mariacarmen
Yeah, and it's REALLY bugging me. I clicked LAST REPLY on this thread this morning, and it shot all the way down to barryg's post WAY below this one:
And yet I had about 20-25 new posts I hadn't yet read above and below it.
STUPID. Gah. I seriously cannot believe after the last update fiasco, this downgrade wasn't tested.
1) When replying in iPod, post reply button is off the screen to the right.
2) Can't edit my posts after about 10 minutes despite the edit button remaining.
3) After replying with my iPod it does not reset the screen/font size and leaves me overly zoomed in on already overly large text.
4) After editing a post on my iPod it leaves me zoomed significantly more then after a normal reply which is already too much.
This is SO AWEFUL that I can hardly speak - oh, write to you about it; why is the new interface so PALE?
It is like you expect every person who hangs out on CH to have a 20/20 eyesite; It is FREAKISH that you would turn the main threads of discussions into a GREY color!!!!!!!!!!!
How can we talk to each other if everyone is paled out to a tiny fraction of their feelings and thoughts?
This is NOT a good move.
I would say, perhaps the organization, and headings are allright as you have changed them - but NO WAY should a thread going actively on should be GREY as we all reply.
Please. REALLY????????
Who did you consult on these changes? I never saw an opportunity to be on a "board;" or an "insight committee" about what you were choosing. This is JUST ridiculous, and not inclusive of your members.
From a long-time WFD, COTM, DOTM, and various posts person. YOU, CHOWHOUND, have not spoken to me, and left me behind in some crazy attempt to find new members, while leaving me cold - no preheating necessary, as I can't be interested in turning on the heat. YOU have messed with goodness, sugar and spice.
SO messed up!
1. Smaller font on the front page so it can load more topics again
2. Ability to collapse expanded posts
3. Keep username always with no expiration time
4. Don't have reply/flag fade in/out, keep them showing all the time, especially on mobile.
5. Reply to OP at bottom of thread
The rest I can get used to. Change is necessary, websites need to constantly update to keep with other sites changing, and change is often difficult to contend with, but some of these changes are not well thought out, or the reasons for them are not being explained.
A font change is easy, a colour change is easy, but you seem to have a problem with keeping the username, I will never understand why you want to have it disappear.
re: TeRReT
re: DGresh
Dave MP 12/06/12 7:30AM
In the new design, usernames will remain in the 'last reply' timestamp for the first 2 days since the last reply. After that, it will revert to just being the date.
Of course, if an older discussion gets updated, the username will appear back in the timestamp again for 2 days.
I would prefer the username always remain.
In further discussion I believe they suggested considering extending the 2 days to maybe 7 but they don't actually explain the merit or reason for username to be removed, so any number of days still does not make sense to me.
re: TeRReT
re: Ruth Lafler
re: zin1953
re: Ruth Lafler
It's not a junior assistant programmer. It's their head honcho or honchos who want to justify their continued employment by fiddling with unnecessary redesigns. They probably already started on the next one.
Also, anyone else notice that when you type too fast, some characters are dropped in the new system?
re: Ruth Lafler
On the mouseover, my guess is that they were thinking that it lets the eye focus on the message rather than having many other UI elements in the box which could be distracting.
However, I don't think it's a good idea. Facebook didn't feel the need to implement something like this, not sure why it would be better here.
I really don't understand why someone would think the username feature is a good idea.
re: TeRReT
Why can't you put more topics on a single page?
Like about 10 times as many topics as you have now.
It feels like you don't really want us to see any topics that are more than a couple hours old. Not a good move.
This is really painful. Please fix this or at least let me go back to the way it was.
What elements from the old Chowhound were you trying to improve?
re: steve h.
re: gingershelley
re: gingershelley
On my laptop I saw a tied in Facebook like post count so I imagine you can like a post through Facebook, but I see no such feature on my iPod and I don't really use Facebook so it does not interest me much anyways.
But what is annoying on my iPod is having the post reply button off the screen to the right, so after typing this I have to drag the screen over to click reply.
re: gingershelley
I'm going to have to agree with bbqboy on the 'like' button business. On this thread I don't recall anyone expressung this desire except for you. I have seen it mentioned on other threads. I don't think this site needs to emulate Facebook. They might start uneeded legal action if a 'like' button were added. Beseides that, not everyone here is on Facebook.
So far not a big change. I DO like being able to see the first line of a collapsed thread (the postings that were seen last time you opened) it makes it much easier to understand the comments to that posting. I agree that the board listings are way to big and the individual thread postings are too small. Not the end of the world, but not convenient. For the most part it seems to be much ado about nothing, but perhaps I will change my mind after working with it. I still wish the OP date would show next to the OP name so I knew if it was a 4 year old thread, but CH seems intentionally oblivious to those comments.
re: KaimukiMan
re: ellabee
re: LindaWhit
I think ' THINK that I am replying to you LW, but this is so catastophic, I can hardly write....
Why are our threads where we are all talking 'grey'?
What is this new 'connection' thing that connects no-one with the links at the bottom?
Where is the simple 'like' button everyone asked for? Really? We can't even be trusted to simply like things on here? It could have been coded for only a reply to reply with people who spent a certain amount of time on CH.
I say SHAME! all this is silly. I have seen NOTHING that makes my regular-user experience better.
WhERE were the focus groups, or reaching out to regular users to ask what WE looked for in a re-design? I have NO idea who the MODS/EDITORS are trying to please. Please. PeeShaw.
re: LindaWhit
re: KaimukiMan
re: KaimukiMan
and yes, i was wrong, they did add the OP date. well thats two things done right.
graphically it sucks, the typeface is hard on the eyes, and the few colors used are jarring rather than enhancing. And if they want to get rid of avatars, just do it, why make them round?
Ok, this is an edit, so I got it to work.... seems like it took them 6 months to pick a typeface and go retro with a black and white scheme so I can use my 1964 zenith as a monitor.
Yet another reason *NOT* to have the light grey/dark grey. I just went to this thread with 155 replies
And kept hitting the Pg Dn on my keyboard to quickly jump down to wherever the first unread post was.....and I almost scrolled right past it. The light gray (unread post) vs. dark gray (read post) is virtually undiscernible during a quick scroll to move quickly in a long thread.
Go BACK to the white for unread posts so they can be seen - PLEASE?
re: LindaWhit
re: LindaWhit
I just clicked on that thread -- which I've already read and even replied to -- and all of the posts were expanded. Why? They should be collapsed if I've already seen 'em. (Never mind the difficulty in finding new replies, but that's been a problem on here forever -- only made worse in the new design.)
After about a half-hour's use on a laptop...
GOOD: 1) Jumping to the last reply when a user clicks in the "Last Reply" column on a board page. 2) Showing the first line of each collapsed response on a thread page.
OK: Replacing the "New" icon with bold text and an arrow icon. This conveys more information than the previous scheme, and other, standard board software uses a similar approach.
AWFUL: 1) All the wasted vertical space. 2) The low contrast between text and background, which has already given me a headache. (Seriously.) Didn't we confront these very same issues with the last redesign?
BUG(?): Jumping to the top of a thread, rather than the first reply (as previously), when a user clicks in the "Replies" colunn on a board page. Of course, what would be the most helpful would be to jump to the first expanded reply.
NB: I just tried to view the introductory video, getting the message, "The video you have requested in unavailable or may have expired."
Would someone please tell me where to find the COTM stickies.
re: JoanN
re: JoanN
There are now links to the discussions for Cookbook of the Month just under the title of the board in red text. All of the actual discussion threads will now float with other threads on the board. We hope this will offer a combination of having an easy link so people can always find them and having them be part of the regular conversation on the boards rather than something that's separated off.
re: Jacquilynne
re: JoanN
Ah, sorry, should have checked if you were using the mobile interface. Stickies still aren't visible on mobile, but now that the actual discussions for the Of-the-Month projects aren't stickied (just Quick Links to them), you should be able to see them in the regular discussions.
Sprint LG Optimus S using Dolphin HD browser- there is no way to reply!
The link/flag/reply buttons that magically appear when you hover a mouse cursor over them on a PC simply do not exist on my phone browser.
It's just unclickable dead grey space.
Mr Taster
re: Mr Taster
In any case I'm not sure what the point is of them "magically appearing". At least on my browser (Firefox on Windows 7) the space into which they appear is just gray space anyway. It's not like they save any space while they're hidden. It simply makes them less obvious if you don't have your mouse in the frame. So you think "there's no way to reply". And in some cases, apparently, that's actually true.
re: DGresh
Well, I was trying to reply to the original post, but couldn't figure out how on my iPhone. And I don't need to read discussions from across the room. I get almost nothing on a page - im not going to spend time scrolling thru 50 pages to read a thread. i mean - seriously oversized and I don't have great vision. The grey/grey issue is pretty serious too. Total bummer:(
re: Mr Taster
re: Mr Taster
IMHO, any site redesign which requires a video to help users understand it, is not an improvement in usability.
If it's not self-evident, then you're making it too complicated.
As an occasional poster and frequent user of Chowhound for over six years, this really just makes me sad...
P.S. - Also tried the new site on my iPhone. Not impressed with that either. The lack of an option to go to the Desktop site is especially irksome.
re: MarkhamDee
re: MarkhamDee
> IMHO, any site redesign which requires a video to help users understand it, is not an improvement in usability.
SO, so true. This is my rule #1 of designing pages and forms: if people use it wrong, or have to ask for directions on how to use it, THE DESIGNER DID A BAD JOB. The current version of CH is non-intuitive in addition to being ugly and clunky. I have a hard time believing that this was beta-tested by actual users, given that the comments on this thread are running approximately 99.9%-0.1% against.
It may have taken 6 months, but the changes I've seen are not for the better, IMO. Not being able to scan more than a few threads per page sucks big time. And I'm nearsighted, but the font and icon sizes look like they belong in Reader's Digest's Big Print Edition.
Not so likely to be spending so much time here contributing... eGullet anyone?
re: kaleokahu
re: Breadcrumbs
Hi, breadcrumbs:
\I had an Aha! moment about the egregiously large fonts... Increase the font size to absurd = more right-hand space for the things we don't care about: ads. This is about maximizing revenue, not making the site "better."
Aloha, and See You When You Hele to eG,
re: kaleokahu
Also, take a look at My Discussion (for me and I assume many the main entry point to the site). The distinction between viewed and unviewed threads is almost imperceptible, with no difference in the headers as with other boards just a teeny weeny difference in the grey tone. So very tastefull and idiotic.. PLEASE bring back the NEW marker or some other very definite demarcation so I know what I have looked at already
Was it beta tested by users?
re: ElizabethS
re: ElizabethS
If the changes were beta tested they were tested by betta fighting fish. No human should have approved these changes (some fish did). Everything seems geared toward mobile users. Also, I can't wait to see what they put in all that wasted negative space over on the right-hand side.
re: Cheese Boy
I just booted up on my new LenovosUltrabook - windows 7 with Goggle Chrome -the whole site only fills 2/3 of the page I had figured it was a problem with all the new ad blocking that myoldfashioned corporate machine was doing but no - the site is now all empty space and I have to scroll and scroll. And this reply box type is just TINY hard to read and edit. As a content provider Id just like to say that I am not going to be doing that - adding content- very much for the foreseeable future from my smartphone,its just too laborious, so CHOW had better work to make the computer view -as well as the smartphone view - work well if it expects folks to actually write. Ive never seen a website that looks as lame as this one does right now - dimensioned to fit on a smartphone. with all this other space available - all the other sites I visit seem to be figuring out how to adjust to make both readable. Recognizing that things may be more complicated than I understand, please please keep working on this.
re: jen kalb
Just looked at it on my Galaxy Tab (Kindle size) and the new fonts are so big they overrun the screen, even when I try and downsize it.
Man, this is like playing cards with the old folks who need the deck with the giant numbers on it.
Also checked it on my smartphone. Once again the entire thing was too huge to fit on the screen. Downsizing helped some, but that messed up the spacing on the actual posts. CH has been difficult to use on a smartphone at best. It's still difficult
So far not finding the new format very user-friendly :-(
re: Cheese Boy
In general, de-emphasizing the pinned threads - or turning them into a FAQ is a good idea since they took up too much space.
But I think the HomeCooking Board still needs more work given the importance of the COTM, dish of the month and voting and nomination threads. Having to find the tiny link, (in comparison to the size of the thread headers below) click through to it and then find the area of interest in the undifferentiated text below - where is the big bold text and headers where it is needed? is confusing and harmful. Im sure this will get fixed, right? Seems like it just was not fully thought through.
re: jen kalb
The more clicks it takes to get somewhere the less people will bother. Right now you have to know what the COTM and DOTM are and where to even look for them to find them.
I've visited far less boards since the last redesign making them take more effort to get to- I will probably decrease what I read here even more if it continues to increase in the effort required.
Jeez, I can't tell what I've read and what I haven't read...I'm soooooo confused
And why is the first sentence of each collapsed thread displaying. That made it even harder to try and find new posts in a long thread. I couldn't tell where the new posts started and the old ones ended. Very confusing to the eye.
re: kengk
Word. Plus lots of people who say they are going to leave. FLOUNCE!!
But I am not a fan of this 'upgrade' and hope the engineering team is hearing the feedback.
My latest thing is that now when I click to expand messages I see them all not just my unread. I have to scroll thru a bunch of history to get to the new content. Le sigh.
I am with everyone else in terms of feeling that the greyness of the site both makes it difficult to read and makes it feel very old. I'm not sure why you have taken away some real functionality here. Both the labeling of threads as 'new' and the larger number of post on the subject threads were very helpful to the reader. Now they're gone, and we have these threads that are practically yelling at you.
Agree with the others that the type size is way too big and the poor use of real estate.
As a reminder - here's a link to an archived page that demonstrates how many more threads were evident
re: ElizabethS
Exactly. The old view, even though you had "Show Saved Boards" open, still shows MORE listed threads than the new format. Just think about how many you can see when the "Show Saved Boards" is closed!
Pics below of the new format and the old format as seen on my laptop at home:
Holy moley. Just took me 5 minutes to figure out how to reply on my iPhone.
It's a hard job Dave to take all this criticism in and persevere. And you know I feel your pain being in IT and all that. But I hate the new look and feel too.
I'm hopeful the team will take the feedback and iterate.
I have to agree with the majority here. The ridiculously large font when entering a board (er, category) limits the number of threads viewed at one time is annoying. And that annoyance is compounded by the fact that the "New" tag has been removed. Add to thast the whole light gray\dark gray approach to unread\read threads is giving me a major headache. You don't really have to have taken a design course to know that black print on a white background is the easiest to process. Also, I too find the first line of an already read post to be distracting. And I'm giving myself eyestrain reading this in the Reply section.
For the record, My Categories does appear (laptop with IE 7).
I tried the new design with three browsers: Mozilla Firefox, Chrome and Internet Explorer. The My Categories (saved boards) selection appears with Firefox, but is missing when using Chrome or Internet Explorer. This needs to be fixed.
Another objection to the huge font for headers and the pointless and wasted white space, that results in users getting less information on the screen in an actually less readable format.
I'm talking about a conventional computer screen as with a desktop or laptop computer. If the redesign is intended for smartphone screens, it's no use to me.
Also, where are the flags for threads with posts I haven't read yet? Have I got to waste my time opening every thread just in case? Sheesh!
Okay, since everyone is complaining, I'll give you one thing I like: the preview line on the collapsed posts. Very helpful for long threads with multiple tangents.
re: Ruth Lafler
re: Ruth Lafler
Ruth I agree. That's the ONE thing I really like. It's nice to have a little bit of an idea of what someone is saying "me too" or "+1" to. Other than that, I agree with everyone else. Particularly regarding the huge wasted space when looking at threads. I see just 3 or 4 topics on my full size monitor. This is silly.
re: Ruth Lafler
50 shades of gray
Anyone else notice the letters cut off on the justfied left side of the OP comment? Nearly every OP has a few letters missing on the left column within the first two lines.