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Whirlpool Cabrio Dryers Are Not Worth The Metal They're Made Of!
Posted by Theksmom on 02/05/2009
LONGWOOD, FLORIDA -- I purchased a brand-new Whirlpool Cabrio Dryer from Lowes in August 2008. In October I went to put start a load of laundry and the dryer wouldn't start. I called for service...4 days later a gentleman came out and said the temperature fuse was blown. It will go out when the dryer gets too hot. He replaced it. We used the dryer for about two months and then it stopped working again right after Christmas. Called again, they sent out another repair technician (four days later -- did I mention I have four kids). The same guy came out, couldn't understand why the fuse blew again. This time he tested some other stuff and realized the dryer was not "cycling." In other words, it ran at the same heat constantly, and they needed to replace a part that regulates the heat cycles. They had to order the part, and so we were without the dryer for another week (did I mention I have four kids?) This time another technician came out, and although he wouldn't come right out and say it, indicated the dryers are built wrong and that I would have continuous problems with it.
Today the dryer failed again. I called for service, and they wanted to send another tech out to repair it. I said no way, and asked to speak to a supervisor. What followed was 20 minutes of frustration, trying to get this guy to put me through to a supervisor, which never did happen. First he told me they would send a tech out to confirm the dryer was broken again, and then they would take it to the "next step." Of course, he had no information on what that next step would me. I asked to speak to the supervisor again. He put me on hold again. A few minutes later he came back on the line and offered to extend my warranty for THREE months. WHOOO! I said no dice and asked to speak to the manager again. He put me on hold again. When he finally came back on the line he told me he would send my complaint to the "review board" and I should call back next week to see if they would exchange my dryer! At this point I'd been on the line for a good half hour and he knew I was ready to give up.
So now I still have no dryer, and have to wait to find out if they will "exchange" my piece of crap dryer for another one. I will never purchase another Whirlpool product again.
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Posted by Anonymous on 2009-02-06:
Reviews of the Cabrio line are mostly positive. There are a few complaints that it doesn't get warm enough. You ought to contact Whirlpool directly. By the way, how many children do you have?
Posted by SilverWngs71 on 2009-02-06:
She did contact Whirlpool. The problem is that the call taker had the supervisor on the phone and they were asking the call taker to offer different things. Did you offer to extend the warranty for 3 months what about 6 months? Because the appliance is in warranty it is of no monetary cost to the owner, however it does cost time, laundry piles adding up. What Whirlpool is trying to do and it doesn't look like it is succeeding is to get another incompetent A&E tech to the home. What needs to be done is to have the tech while in the home call into Sears Technical Assistance Center or STAC. If it is someone other than A&E they can call into Whirlpool tech support and speak to a tech about the issue. Only tech support can deem the appliance unrepairable. The tech at the home cannot say its unrepairable, he has to call into the tech support and do exactly what they say to try to get the appliance repaired. The down side to this is that the Whirlpool warranty is for repair not replacement.
Good Luck.
Posted by qualityappliance on 2009-02-06:
The first thing they should have checked is the vent pipe for a restriction. Tha is the primary reason that a thermal fuse will blow. Depending on which fuse blew, (there are 2), one of them comes as a kit and both parts must be replaced.
Silver makes some good points however, My experience with the tech line people is that they are there because they can't acually repair anything. My advice is that if you have a technician that has to get on the phone for advice, you need a better technician.
You have other choices for service in you area.
Alt. #: (407)401-7191
Posted by theksmom on 2009-02-06:
Silver -- The A&E guys have been nice but unfortunately I think you are right about the incompetent thing. Qualityappliance, the vent is clear and both parts were replace the last time they came out.
But there is a bright side to this story. Apparently, someone from Whirlpool saw my post on this site and they called me this morning and are REPLACING MY DRYER!! I cannot tell you how happy I am that they are trying to do the right thing. Hopefully this Cabrio will prove to be more reliable. Thank you Whirlpool!
Posted by horses on 2011-03-19:
I've been having issues with my whirlpool cabrio as well. Second dryer and third time I've had service techs out to check it. This one emits horrible chemical smells and yes it did run for an hour upon first hook up. Does not dry clothes after repeated cyclesand is a noisy bugger. The first one at least did not have smell and noises. So the techs just left and said it must be the machine itself, that it is hooked up fine and I just cleaned the venting less than a week ago. I'm so frustrated and wonder if the brand itself (and model) is bad or what. Now I have to call Lowe's (again!!) to get another one and wonder if I should just get another like maytag. Any ideas on what you would do? Thanks. horses
Posted by erwin on 2012-01-01:
my cabrio dryer still not drying...
i replaced with new heating element- vents all cleared- it runs but cloths come out damp all the time- always have to rerun machine- i get af code occasionally but all looks clear- it stays on 7 minutes. Can anybody help
Posted by joe on 2013-07-10:
I am a service technician myself. I would suggest getting something older from a friend or used appliance store. This is not just a Whirlpool issue. All brands of new appliances are made cheaper and cheaper and are made not to last very long with costly repairs. Older appliances are cheaper to fix, buy, and are made a lot better in the first place.
Posted by Coastie on 2013-07-20:
I have recently noticed a problem with my Cabrio dryer as well. Funny thing is, as far as i know, it's working fine. No funny smells, no odors, drys clothes fine. So imagine my surprise when I pulled the dryer out of it's spot, and noticed the paint bubbled and feeling completely off on the side. I'm thinking this can't be good! I can't find any other information or related articles on this happening to anyone else. Belts, fuses, not starting or not drying, yes...but paint peeling due to heat?? Nope, not one thing. Any ideas?? Thanks
Posted by Matt- Pittsburgh on 2013-07-31:
I also have a Cabrio dryer and had to replace 2 fuses so far and a control board located in the top. It's the heater control board actually.
I'm also having problems with the dryer running overly hot, no matter what setting I put it on. I've started to put the dryer on Timed dry for like 10 minutes on the extra low heat setting and running down to check it. It's out of warranty now, so if anything else happens I will get another dryer. I've already put about 550 into it in repairs.
What else is ridiculous is that the technician service manual for mine was located in the space between 2 control boards. If you take that top piece off you'll see 2 white control boards and between mine was the tech manual. The first time I had the dryer worked on the edges of this manual were burnt to a crisp! I reported the issue to a safety line for Sears, that issue alone could easily cause a house fire without any clothes being in the dryer.
I will stay away from this brand, maybe read up on Consumer Reports next time.
Posted by Robert Wilson on 2013-10-25:
Dunno why WHIRLPOOL has cornered the lemon market. I've had problem after problem with my WP dish washer,(three days after the warranty expired.) I decided not to ever buy another product with that logo. NEXT, I bought a clothes washer from LOWE'S. What a nightmare, my credit card bill was overcharged $i,340.00. When I went to Lowe's for a correction, the person that heads accounting did not seem to understand the problem. That person produced a calculator that was not operable by her. After two hours of teeth gritting, I FINALLY made it through the webs but had to wait 10 days to confirm that the mistake was corrected. WHEW!
Posted by JTDerda on 2013-12-09:
We bought a Brand New Cabrio Washer and dryer, just about 2 years ago. a month ago my wife says that the dryer is making a thumping noise. I procrastinated a bit until I did a load a couple weeks ago. Holy Crap this thing is really banging. While looking how to get the top or front off I noticed i rather large crack along the seam at the rear of the barrel. Now I have to go deal with dimwitted sales people and do the runaround before I take it and throw it through the window of the store! ( I have played this game before, I don't play well!) Reading the list of troubles I see here not one listing of this trouble. I was hoping to find this a manufacturing problem and is known about. Anyone had this issue? I am looking for ammo when dealing with the dimwits!
Posted by Jana on 2013-12-30:
Same thing fuse blowing mine started before warranty had 2 replaced. We purchased extra fuses, my husband replaced 3 blew the third one in less than 20 min. repair man came replaced vent with metal one, replace theromastat, replaced fuse cost another 189 dollar last 3 days waiting on repair man now. I think the fix is BUY another dryer and DO NOT buy whirlpoool!!!! What I have spent on repair man I could have purchased a another brand of dryer. They over heat going to burn someone house down sooner or later!!!!
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Twisted Mess
Posted by Lofty loft on 02/08/2009
KING OF PRUSSIA, PENNSYLVANIA -- I wanted a front loader - my husband wanted a top loader so I agreed once he purchased us the top of the line model at Lowes -- it was the Whirlpool Cabrio. What a great LOOKING machine, and I could watch the cleaning taking place with the huge glass door on the top. Whirlpool should have put a solid top on so that you couldn't see how little the agitation was and you couldn't see the LACK OF WATER. Believe me, there was no sloshing of water. On one sweatshirt I saw what I thought was spots on it. They weren't spots of dirt -- they were spots of water. Half of the shirt had no water penetration at all. Imagine that -- cleaning an item without getting it fully wet. Also, all the clothes came out of the washer TOTALLY TWISTED TOGETHER. You will never see such a twisted mess in any other washing machine. We called Lowes the next day and asked them to get this washer out of here. Lowe's was GREAT. They came the next day (and it was a Sunday) with a GE Profile top loader (no, I didn't get my wish for a front loader.)
The GE profile is a much better washer. The sound of water sloshing through the clothes is MUSIC TO MY EARS. The GE is even an HE washer as well and Energy Efficient. Who could ask for more?
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Posted by L Lake on 2009-02-09:
I have the Whirlpool Cabrio washer and I generally wash the sheets on the casual clothing cycle I think it is, because if I wash the sheets on their intended cycle, the machine usually gets unbalanced. Yesterday I did wash my sheets on the Sheet cycle and my sheets came out a twisted mess, which took a lot of my time to get unraveled, as well as attempting to get my pillow cases untwisted in this tighten braided mess.
I have also had clothing that was partially wet and that's why I have to wash all of the clothing on the Deep Clean cycle. Sometimes I have to do an extra rinse if I want to get the underarm odors out of my teen's shirts.
I like my washer and one is the water savings as we are metered for every drop of water we use, but there are things about this washer that I don't like.
I've also looked at my laundry washing and I wonder if it's being really cleaned, because in my opinion, the agitator cannot move the clothes around as effectively as a typical washer can.
I was unfortunate to also buy the Whirlpool Calypso washer, which was recalled or something along those lines. I lucked out, because Sears at the time was working under their Customer Satisfaction guarantee and they bought the washer back.
I also puchased the Maytag Neptune and lived through that nightmare. I wish a company like Maytag and Whirlpool would fess up to a faulty product and offer their customers restitution instead of attempting to fool the public and ruin their reputations permanently.
Posted by m-izzle-328 on 2009-02-10:
What do you expect with an exceptional small circle at the bottom and not a standard post agitator? Did you really research the appliance? It does clean the clothing and the twisting is normal operation for the performance of the unit. Do more research before your next purchase.
Posted by Slimjim on 2009-02-10:
m-izzle. I don't think Whirlpool engineers "expected" the machine to characteristically tie clothes in boyscout knots so why would an average consumer?
Posted by BokiBean on 2009-02-10:
Normal operation? Hahaha! If its normal to ruin clothes and linens...then yeah.
Posted by L Lake on 2009-02-11:
When I bought my Cabrio washing machine it was when they were first introduced. I had to get rid of my Maytag Neptune, so I didn't have the time to wait for the reviews on the Cabrio to come in.
I didn't want a standard washing machine, because of all the water they use, as we are on a water meter here. Also regular agitator washers destroy my towels and clothing. I haven't had anything hurt in the way of towels or clothing in my Cabrio. I have only had the braided mess with washing sheets on their designated cycle.
I am for the most part very pleased with it. I will say that if this washer gives me a lot of repair troubles, which knock on wood, in two and a half years I've had none, I would go back to a normal washer that doesn't have electronic anything on it and has a normal agitator.
Posted by sumday on 2009-04-07:
our maytag washer died after less than 4 years so we bought the whirlpool cabrio washer and guess what as soon as we got it home the control knob would not work so its going back as soon as I can borrow my friends truck again. I think I'll go with a GE this time.
Posted by BlogShag on 2011-05-01:
How many of you actually read the instruction manual before using the Whirlpool Cabrio? Probably none of you. With the Kenmore Oasis, a similiar machine, the instructions say to bunch the articles of clothing up before putting them in the tub
Posted by dane1234 on 2011-10-07:
I have had my Cabrio washer for 18 months, and it has performed great. Yes, you have to follow the instructions, but they are not unreasonable.
Posted by Jwanner on 2013-10-07:
I have a new LG HE top loader and I have the same problem. I put 5 pairs of jeans in it and the legs are all twisted and knotted together. It does it to everything and doesn't.t seem to matter what size the load is. I really hate these "green" washers. I think it is because there is no agitator to keep them from twisting up.
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Recall Cabrio F 1
Posted by CABRIO "F" oned on 01/18/2010
I have a CabrioWTW6600SG2 purchased 3/22/08. Light use so I was surprized when F 1 started. I have also experienced "your model # doesn't qualify for any coverage" I didn't purchase x-ed warranty d/t light use. When calling be polite & ask for a supervisor as they are able to approve the parts/service in full. Do not accept NO & arm yourself with all the facts from internet postings. This is POWER TO THE PEOPLE. I am infinatly grateful to the internet & all the wonderful people who have posted to find a solution to this "F1" issue!
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Poorly made product
Posted by Linda Carol on 02/27/2008
WINFIELD, ALABAMA -- Two years ago I bought a Whirlpool Cabrio washer and dryer after my Maytag washer gave up the ghost after eleven years. The dryer was still working fine, but I couldn't find a washer to match it. I decided to buy the Whirlpool washer and dryer to replace both of the Maytags. The washer doesn't run enough water in it to really clean the clothes, makes noise, had to have a circuit board replaced after a month; the dryer had to have the door switch replaced shortly afterwards. The dryer was supposed to dry a load in thirty minutes--try an hour and a half. The dryer has quit heating, and the warranty is expired. The company representative I spoke to was "very sorry" but there was nothing he could do. I have never been so sick of buying something in my life as I am of the Whirlpool Cabrio--Fancy name- sorry product.
Linda Spiller
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Posted by tech47 on 2008-02-28:
if your dryer took 1 1-2 hrs to dry the load was you vent clogged and if so the dryer will shut itself down to keep from catching on fire/whirlpool will at times make a concession on parts only if the appliance is just out of a year/but if the tech that looks at it and determines cust fault or misuse the parts may not be covered
Posted by Linda Carol on 2008-02-29:
To tech47- Just had a tech here yesterday (Thursday). He thought the vent might be clogged--It wasn't. He checked the dryer and the heating element was blown. Had to order a new one ($140.00 for the part). The blown one had thin wire on the coils--He showed me a replacement for another Whirlpool model-- the coils were much thicker. He also told me that the Cabrio came out with plastic knobs, but the replacement knobs were steel. A case of sending a new product out to the consumer without adequate testing imho.
Linda Carol
Posted by qualityappliance on 2008-03-01:
$140.00 for a heating element is quite high, standard sugested retail is $59.20. My guess is it was Sears.
Posted by Linda Carol on 2008-03-01:
To Whomever;
There seems to be several people who are disappointed with the Cabrio and to the techs (?) who have replied;
No it isn't a Sears part-the replacement part my tech had with him wouldn't fit and it would have been $49.00. I believe him as I have used him several times in the past and he has always done a good job at a reasonable price. By the way, he is an authorized repairman for several different companies including Whirlpool.
The techs (?) who have replied say about the same thing to everyone who has complained about the Cabrio and apparently think;
1. The people who complain have never used a washer or drier.
2. The people who have complained don't have the sense to check the vents, and to see if the appliance is plugged in.
3. Can't read.
4. Don't have the right to expect good service out of an $1800.00 washer and dryer set.
Linda Carol
Posted by qualityappliance on 2008-03-02:
The correct element for the Cabrio is also used in the Duet and many other Whirlpool dryers, and has been since about 1996 or so. I carry the part in my truck at all times and if needed by one of my regular repeat customers, I would charge them about $45. for the part, as my last cost of the elements with a quanity discount was $18.99
ps. I was sugesting it was a Sears/A&E technician, not a Sears part.
Posted by Sheree on 2008-03-14:
Had my Cabrio dryer 8 months. The heating element went out, had it replaced, that worked for 2 weeks then no heat again, still under warranty called the tech out, he changed the control borad, no help, then the heating element again, heat for half of a load, that I had to still hang dry. 4 months later, the tech is here every other week and still without a dryer? Any help on what can keep the element from blowing would be greatly appreciated as I am pretty fed up. Wasted $700 thinking I was getting a good product.
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Cabrio Washer WTW6600SW2
Posted by Working Mom 1967 on 02/27/2011
What a disappointment. I bought the set for about 2k in 2007 April. Three short years later it began displaying code F51. The repair man came out at least 5 times with a myriad of theories and attempts to fix it. Ultimately, he replaced the control panel and all electrical parts to the tune of what would have cost me $600. Whirlpool knows they have a real problem with this machine, that's why they sent the repairman out for free to me. The whole ordeal left me without a washing machine for 3 months and lots of missed time from work. Now, 6 months later, Feb 2011, it began being off balance several times, a load. We would re shovel the clothes then with in seconds it was OL. Then I look on the floor and see water leaking. Not just a little, a lot! After seeing on the net this is a known problem I have thrown the thing in the trash and my new NOT Whirlpool machine is coming Wednesday. This is the only time I have taken the time to write a review. I wish I had this advise before I bought last time.
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Posted by Anonymous on 2011-02-27:
3 short years? Excluding Leap Year, what is the difference between 3 long years, and 3 short years? Three years is three years, and that in itself is an extremely long time for an appliance of that nature to not have any problems until then.
As a repair tech in that field for several years, I found the toughest problem to be the operator of the equipment. They had it set in their mind that there way of loading was the right way, since they had been doing it that way all of their lives. Often times, they would neglect to follow the manufacturer's recommendations on load capacities and so forth.
As an example, I serviced a machine at a major hotel chain. I retrained the entire staff on how to operate the machine properly and then left the building to my next service call. I left my clipboard on top of the dryer, and when I returned to retrieve it, the employee had went right back to doing the same stubborn method they were doing in the first place.
I'm not insinuating this about the OP by any means, I'm just saying there are often two or three sides to every story.
Posted by Ytropious on 2011-02-27:
"I found the toughest problem to be the operator of the equipment."
Took the words right out of my mouth! Some washers can handle user error more then others. It sounds like Cabrios are very prone to overloading and breaking. My mom has a pair of Cabrios that are only 2 years old, but are working. Washing machines, especially top loaders (if your cab is a top loader, my moms is) are very easy to overload with clothing. Just because there's some free space doesn't mean you underloaded it.
Posted by Disgusted Owner on 2011-07-21:
As far as I am concerned, this washer is an expensive piece of junk. I have been getting the infamous F51 Code on my machine. Thank goodness for the net--that is where I found out that Whirlpool knows they have a major problem with these machines. I will be very polite when I call then and maybe they will take care of part or all of the bill. I have had Whirlpool washers before and never had any problems with them.
Posted by Mimi on 2011-08-02:
Only two years old and a repair that cost us approximately $250. What a disappointment!
I hear a good many complaints about the Whirlpool computer model washers. Next time, I'll disregard the brand, buy the cheapest washer and replace it if something goes wrong.
Posted by DAVE on 2013-09-28:
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Lowes / Whirlpool / A & E Appliance Repair
Posted by Jackie V. on 07/11/2008
LEAGUE CITY, TEXAS -- FIRST MISTAKE - I purchased a Cabrio washer from Lowes 9 months ago. The washer does not support the large capacity for which it is marketed without having to minimize the size of the load and rewash clothes. I could never use the high speed spin cycle because it spun so tight it would make holes in the towels and clothing.
2nd mistake - I dismissed this because I did not want to deal with having to wait on a repairman so I dealt with it on my own by not using the high spin cycle and by rewashing when odors were not removed.
A week ago the washer began to leak. First available service in the suburbs of Houston was 4-5 days. The repairman from A and E came today. While he had to top portion up to work inside, the under side of the top is severely rusted and dropping particles of rust on the plastic portion of the top of the tub. Repairman said he couldn't find anything, left. The washer is still leaking.
I call whirlpool and talk with a supervisor by the name of Cody (ID# 4211) who deals with customers who make appliance purchases from Lowes and inform him of problems as they unfolded. I request he replace the washer with a unit that does not leak, is not rusting, and can be used in the capacity as it is marketed. He apologizes numerous times and informs me that whirlpool warranty does not include replacement ONLY repair. The best they can do is to send another repairman in 4 more days.
On a more positive note, I called and spoke with the manager of the Lowes store which we made the purchase and they have agreed to let us return the washer. Thank you Lowes! It will not be a Whirlpool nor will I ever purchase a Whirlpool again.
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Posted by Anonymous on 2008-07-11:
First Miststake,buying an appliance from a hardware store.
Second Mistake,letting A&E into your home.They are the worst.
My advice would be to find a local appliance store that could handle Maytag/Whirlpool warranty
I have the Cabrio,and so far so good.
Posted by ejack053824 on 2008-07-11:
I have the Amana front loader washer and dryer. Couldn't ask for anything better!
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Whirlpool Is Ripping Off the American Consumer
Posted by Dirtydave on 08/01/2012
ORLANDO, FLORIDA -- The washing machine is a total piece of S--T! It is a known fact that the control board is faulty, there are thousands of complaints about it on the internet, for example Google the F51 error on the Whirlpool Cabrio Washer. The scum bags at Whirlpool refuse to take responsibility, but they will be happy to charge you $400 or more to fix their junk, or they will sell you a one year warranty for $360 to fix their junk.
Yes Whirlpool is happy to sell you a $500 piece of junk and then charge you $400 more to fix their garbage. Basically Whirlpool wants you to pay $900 for a $500 washer that isn't worth $50
They are robbing the American consumer. I have a Sears Kenmore that I bought used 4 years ago for $100, it still works perfectly while this over-priced Whirlpool piece of junk is a paper weight.
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Posted by ok4now on 2012-08-02:
The Whirlpool Cabrio washer has to be the appliance with the most complaints. Yes Whirlpool is well aware about the faulty control/idiot board. They're making a ton of money on the junk replacement parts so they have no incentive to fix it. This is a disgrace when a company knowingly sells a defective product to the uninformed public. A class action suit should be brought against them for ripping so many people off. Good post.
Posted by leet60 on 2012-08-02:
I have found most high end and high efficiency models to be nothing more than a repair bill waiting to happen. Overall, the intended savings on energy and water bills is negated by the repair bills.
Personally, I still use the older basic model washer and dryer. 6 years into a low cost set with no problems.
Posted by trmn8r on 2012-08-02:
It will be a shame if manufacturers stop making basic washing machines because of water consumption regulations. A lot of the newfangled stuff appears to be unreliable, costly, and a headache.
Posted by Nohandle on 2012-08-02:
I'm one of those who purchased a Whirlpool washer and dryer set I guess about 7 years ago. The washer is a top loader and I'll never forget the deliveryman/installer told me he expected top loaders to not be available that much longer. I didn't actually comprehend what he was saying at the time but I do now after reading all the complaints we hear. I don't have a friend with a front loader who is pleased, no matter the brand.
Yes, let's save as much water as possible. How are those low tank toilets working out for many? Yep, those that require two or three flushes to clean. That saves a lot of water, doesn't it? The water lines in older homes just are not as efficient as newer neighborhoods. How are the high efficiency light bulbs working out? Those that require a hazmat team to dispose of.
I hope my washer continues to work. It's something I don't care to deal with.
Posted by CowboyFan on 2012-08-02:
The desire for the latest electronics cause a lot of problems in machines such as washers and dryers. By their nature, electronic controls are expensive to repair. It is better to buy high quality, basic machines, than electronic ones.
I have a Sears washer (15 years old) that has a (one) knob that you turn to start the washer. It just keeps on working (although the knob broke, so I have to squeeze the shaft tight, or use pliers to turn it.)
Posted by WP2008 on 2012-08-02:
Hello Dave. My name is Melanie and I am a representative with Whirlpool. We apologize about the frustration you have experienced with your washer. If you would like us to look into this further, please provide your name, the name of the site you were contacted on (My3Cents), your user ID name (Dirtydave), your phone number, your address, the full model and serial number, and email the requested information to firstname.lastname@example.com. We would be happy to review your concerns further. Sincerely, Melanie.
Posted by Sheila on 2013-04-03:
We purchased cabrio w/d combo 2/08. Loved it for about 3yrs and then started to fall apart. Called factory authorized service company, but problem wasn't detected on 1st call. Called again
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Whirlpool Cabrio... Really Bad Design
Posted by Mslklfsgr8 on 02/23/2012
I bought the Whirlpool Cabrio H2Low Wash System... Model #WTW5700XW1... and I am sorry I ever bought them... at least the washer. It's that "NEW" technology of washing clothes in little, or almost, no water that is the HUGE problem. The washer does NOT have the middle agitator post and I think that this is a BAD design. When you have a washer FULL of clothes, or even just half full, and they are hardly even covered with water, and I have a glass top lid on my washer so I CAN see, the washer does a LOT OF WORK washing and spinning clothes without enough water in the tub to effectively clean the clothes. Without enough water I've had clothes come out that didn't even smell clean... YUCK!! Another problem with the low-water washers is my clothes were being destroyed! I HAVE found a work-around though. I set the dial to "BULKY ITEMS" and I leave it there for EVERY load... no mater what size. BECAUSE... when it's set to "BULKY LOAD" the washer fills with water every time, how's THAT for saving water! That's the only way I feel the clothes are getting clean! This new idea of saving water by washing your clothes in hardly ANY water is a BIG MISTAKE. In fact... if you think about it, it doesn't even make sense! I know that when I wash the clothes now in the "FULL TUB OF WATER" and take the clothes out they smell clean. Kind of defeats the purpose of saving water doesn't it. I would like it if Whirlpool would make an agitator post available for those owners of these low-Water washing systems "Free of Charge" that can be retro-fitted, I think that is the only answer to this poor design.
For all those who have commented about how they feel the Cabrio, or even other Low Water wash systems, is efficient and works like a charm please excuse me while I run next door to my daughters house who, just today, had her Cabrio washer picked up by Lowes because they took it back due to the fact that THEY were unable to repair it! She purchased her Cabrio one month before I purchased mine. Oh, yes... and they gave her a full refund of her purchase price because she certainly did NOT want another Cabrio... in fact she is now using a second washing machine she had in her garage which is about 5 or 6 years old and works better than her high priced, inefficient Cabrio, which didn't even last one year!
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Posted by Mario The Great on 2012-02-23:
The Whirlpool Cabrio is a very efficient and effective design. While I agree with you that it "feels" like your clothes aren't being washed with enough water, they are. It takes some time to get used to it, but with the use of HE soap and patience, your clothes truly do get clean. I gave a Kenmore Oasis HE model to my mother and she also believed the same about the water usage. Now she's a happy camper and loves it to death. It just takes some time in getting used to it. :)
Posted by Churro on 2012-02-23:
I have a Cabrio and 'knock on wood' it still works. I must say mine does a really good job cleaning clothes. I use the recommended settings and it does a far better job than any old style agitator washer I've ever used. Mine doesn't have a glass lid which is probably a good thing. I'm sure if I saw the process it might taint my perception a bit.
I only use Tide HE detergent which seems to work really well and the clothes come out smelling wonderful.
Given the Carbrio's soiled past perhaps your machine is defective?
Posted by FoDaddy19 on 2012-02-23:
As the others have said. It's a fine design that works well. In fact, it's the agitator in the older designs that really tears your clothes up. You have to understand that the new HE washers rely much more on centrifugal force to get the dirt out rather than agitation. It's actually much gentler on the clothes that way, and the clothes come out of the washer dryer than they would with a traditional machine, which cuts back on the time needed in the dryer which translates to less energy use, which saves you money in running costs.
Posted by nikalseyn on 2012-02-23:
We are in the process of looking at washers and took a look at the Whirlpool Cabrio. After both in-store and online research, I would not buy one. First of all, they are really much too expensive---around $683 and from everything I have read plus talking to people who actually have them, they do not do a good job of washing your clothes and because of the low water used, your clothes come out still dirty, smelly and you will most likely start to find and smell mold. All this to save a couple of bucks energy---which you pay for anyway. Don't waste your money on these high efficieny washers---water is cheap and you won't save the planet by using them. All you will do is feel good about something. What? Who knows. But you will feel good.
Posted by Venice09 on 2012-02-23:
"This new idea of saving water by washing your clothes in hardly ANY water is a BIG MISTAKE. In fact... if you think about it, it doesn't even make sense!"
Another person who found this out the hard way. You are exactly right. It doesn't make sense. And the proof is in the finished product. Clothes are either clean or not. It's not hard to figure out the difference.
I wouldn't take a Cabrio for free. All the people posting the same complaint can't all be wrong. It was my first impression when I saw one of these washers, and it has turned out to be true. Water is needed to clean clothes properly. Water alone can be more effective than detergent. Without enough water, the job just doesn't get done.
Properly designed top loaders with agitators do not harm clothing. Lack of water does. It creates too much friction that causes material to pill.
All the complaints about Cabrio are almost identical. Can all these machines be defective?
Posted by Anonymous on 2012-02-23:
This must be a design flaw with the Cabrio because I bought a Samsung HE top loader and I love it. Yes, it uses less water than my 20 yr old, old washer but I have yet to have an issue with my clothes not being cleaned or any pilling. It has a sensor that balances the load and sets the water level based on the size of load, no matter what setting I use.
Also, water is not cheap..at least not where I live. My water bill is about $75/month, down almost $15 from prior to the new machine, so it does make a difference.
Posted by Venice09 on 2012-02-24:
Where I live water is cheap and abundant. I have no need or desire to conserve. If the residents don't use it, I don't know where else it can go.
Just, it sounds like Samsung works more like it's supposed to. I am still so leery of this design. It first got my attention in Sears several years ago because of the glass top. I think it was a Kenmore, and it was very expensive. But when I saw the inside, I was extremely skeptical. The description given by all the complaining OPs is exactly what I imagined the problems would be. I wouldn't buy one unless I could try it first, regardless of brand. It's too much money for such a high risk.
Posted by Anonymous on 2012-02-24:
A lot is the mental perception derived from the images seen through the glass top. If only other aspects of our lives were seen the same way, we might change a ton of things. "Out of sight...out of mind."
Posted by WP2008 on 2012-04-12:
Hello, mslklfsgr8! My name is Emily and I am a representative of Whirlpool. We apologize for the frustration you have experienced with your washer. For your convenience we have product troubleshooting available at Whirlpool.com/Owner_Center under Product Help as well as the option to schedule an appointment with a local Whirlpool certified technician. If you are in need of further assistance, please mail us directly at email@example.com with your name, user ID, phone number, address, model and serial number as the website on which you were contacted. We would be happy to review this further. Thank you, Emily.
Posted by Jim on 2013-01-07:
I bought a Kenmore with this design and a solid top, therefore you can't see in. Either Whirlpool or LG makes the Kenmore HE washers now, but the inside and the panel design look more similar to Whirlpool. My wife loves it, though I don't really know what she sets it on, I have a suspicion it's the bulky setting. I told her to take it with her when she left cause she needed something new, not ready to give upon her. An older top loader I was using gave up spinning and so I purchased a Cabrio. It has a glass top and I can see what it's doing. I can only get more than a trickle of water on any setting, including heavy duty, unless I use the bulky setting. Now because I look at things objectively I see a good system and I would bet there is a metering problem with these washers when it come to the water level. On all of the settings I have articles of laundry, no matter what the load is, that never even get wet or pulled into the hub area. I don't think for a minute Whirlpool designed this washer to be such a dud, that just wouldn't make sense. So, I'm speaking to the Whirlpool rep that seems to watch these boards and I challenge you to find the problem that exists with these washer water levels. When you have whites that are dry in spots before they go to the spin cycle there is something wrong. Since it washes so well on bulky I imagine with the proper water levels on all settings these washers would be the thing to have.
Posted by toothmaid26 on 2013-03-20:
i have the cabrio washer and dryer the biggest pieces of junk have nothing but trouble.after the first year water pump had to be replaced.now the washer wont spin replaced some parts still dont work so far $175 into this junk and it makes holes in your thinner t shirts yes that is where those holes come from this washer i know other people who have this washer and have holes in their clothes so check your clothes not just one hole 5 or 6 in a cluster. then my dryer has been fixed 2 times biggest pieces of junk that i paid about $850 for each one of these pieces of junk !!!!
Posted by Agitiated on 2013-06-05:
I tried the Cabrio H2low and sent it back. I filled the large capacity washer and the low capacity water left some of the clothes dirty, as if they were never washed. Yes they may come out "smelling" clean, but I want to SEE clean clothes. This is the worst washer ever!
Posted by Vashon964 on 2013-07-19:
I own a cabrio set and the clothes come out both filthy (not rinsed properly) and often have holes in them - couldn't believe it at first until I started reading other reviews. We were trying to support the local hardware store and bought the set with our new house - pretty much without checking the units out at all - "energy and water efficient" sounded great but who would have thought a product could perform so poorly? Having a repairman come out before we toss them but since it seems a design problem I don't hold out much hope. As far as the dryer goes - it hardly gets warm - we are saving energy alright, hanging clothes to dry is very energy efficient.
Posted by mary m. on 2013-07-22:
Very interesting reading these review. Have had my Cambrio H2Low over a year now and complaining about it all the time. I so wish I had it taken back the first month I had it. At first I use dry HE detergent and blobs of it were stuck on the clothes after "washing". I did switch to liquid detergent and we run everything with a second rinse. So much for water saving. Some clothes still look dingy after washing and also am finding small holes in T-shirts.I read where others set all their washes on "bulky". I am going to try that and see if it helps. I am very unhappy with this washer. The dryer isn't much better.
Posted by TDB on 2013-07-27:
I have used it several times and have taken clothes out from the center of the load which were not even wet!! How is that even possible? Washer was not overloaded and yet there was not enough water or agitation to extend into the center of the load.
Posted by WhirlFools on 2013-08-24:
Oh Joy, I feel like I won a lottery when I bought a barely used few months old Whrilpool Cabrio Washer in the garage sale for $50. Thought 50 bucks is justifiable to replace my 15 year old Whirpool Washer with Agitator that just doesn't fail. Except for inexpensive Motor coupling and dog from which I have to replace once every 2 years. BIG MISTAKE and I feel I was victimized. It has a glass top and I can swear, dirty clothes are starve of water throughout the wash cycles. Clothes smell clean due to HE Detergent but still stained and dirty. I tried to reset the water level per service manual but that didn't help. Glad I searched online and happy to know that it's not just me. The Bulky setting fills the tub halfway but not all the way to the top like what others claimed. Well, so much for the excitement. I am putting back my 15 year old Washer in Service. It's kinda noisy compare to Cabrio but it gets the job done the way it should, no complain. I have to put out the POS Cabrio in front of my house with a big sign, "FREE, PLEASE TAKE ME". Cry me a river but I will not trade my 15 year old Washer to the so called Energy Efficient Washer. Whirpool's Technology is going downhill and it's a disgrace in todays modern living.
Common people, do your homework before replacing your antique washer.
Posted by Raquel on 2013-09-20:
Haven't had mine a year and already not working. It started to sound like something was stuck in the drum and then just stopped. I've unplugged it to reset but still not working.
Posted by Tina on 2013-10-05:
i bought a Whirlpool Camprio T2 low 1 1/2 years ago and today it stopped in th middle of a rinsing cycle. I shut it all down and decided maybe it was best to start over and nothing is working. I also experience holes in my clothes and some discolouring (blotches)..Not Happy at All!!
Posted by Linda Tate on 2013-12-11:
I have to carefully place my clothes around the inside of the washer or at the end, there will be a dry item pulled tightly across the top if the other wet items.
This morning, I tried to wash a queen size mattress cover and parts of it came out dry. So twice more I ran it through the Rinse and Spin and it never came out fully wet. Mine is 2 years old, but my husband gave me the go ahead to get a new washer. No whirlpool cabrio for me, I'll be looking for an agitator model if one exists.
Posted by jason on 2013-12-25:
I sell and service appliances and first you have to understand the dept of energy set these water usage standards not the appliance manufacturers. they would have changed nothing but they are fined if they don't meet the standard placed on them. when searching for a washer don't be deceived, if I says HE that means low water consumption even in a "normal top load". they also have a smart water valve that senses water temps and will mix cold water with hot to reduce temp. machine should have cold luke warm and warm on console instead of cold warm and hot. this all being said with my opinion as a servicer speed queen still builds a monster. stainless inner drum with metal outer drum, high spin speed, normal water valve and full water usage of approx. 60 gallons not 33 like HE's. the awn412 speed queen should cost you around 649 but my 100 percent of my customers that purchased this machine have made the effort to actually call me and praise this machine. that's unheard of in todays society. I sell whirlpool,samsung,frigidaire,amana,maytag,speed queen,whirlpool estate,roper ,and kitchenaid to mention a few brands. by the way when your in your big box stores talking to a salesman that cant take the cabinet off the machine talking about something he knows nothing about you need to understand maytag.whirlpool.amana.kitchenaid.whirlpool estate.roper.and jenn air are all owned by whirlpool and are very similar and in some cases identical machines. I think its funny when I hear someone wasn't happy with the whirlpool they bought so they went and got a maytag. they bought the same machine with a different name. by the way there are more restrictive regs coming in 2015 so get a washer now. also if you research it you will find speed queen is built by alliance industries who happened to build maytag 40 years ago. and if your wondering how speed queen still fills while others don't they chose to pay the fine for not conforming to govt regs. this he business also didn't have to happen and quickly as it has. some companies implemented it early to get ahead of the curve. amana ntw4650 is my second choice mechanically by the way. it using about ten gallons more that he's and you can use regular detergent. hope this is helpful
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Whirlpool Does Not Stand By Appliances F51 Code Issues
Posted by Cherrycu2 on 01/08/2012
BENTON HARBOR, MICHIGAN -- I purchased Cabrio WTW6300WWO energy efficient washer and it started displaying the F51 code one month outside of the 12month warranty. Afterwards, I called Whirlpool customer service for assistance and they wanted to charge me over $200.00 for replace and labor for technician to come look at the washer. Afterwards, I did some research and found there was a class action suit and recall on the previous model for this same issue; which was confirmed by customer service at Whirlpool. However, this model was not recalled per the customer service representative at Whirlpool and she was unable to provide me a solution; without me having to pay more money for a brand new washing machine I just spent over $500.00 purchasing. I am stuck with a brand new washing machine and went a brought an older model washer that has the small tub with agitator investing another $300.00. I think Whirlpool should stand by their product being they are such a reputable company. Whenever, I am in an appliance store and customer ask for my opinion, I definitely advise them not to buy a Whirlpool and the customer service is no help when they may have an issue. I tell them my story and they just stand in disbelief. The best advertising is word of mouth for a company and if Whirlpool doesn't care to help fix the issues of their appliances then why should I care about upholding their reputation and providing sale leads. Whirlpool is clearly aware of the F51 service codes because they recalled the previous model. I wish I had done my research before I purchased this Whirlpool product but I have never had an issue before with the older models of Whirlpool. I thought they were a great appliance company that stood by their product.
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Posted by At Your Service on 2012-01-08:
This is why it is so very important to consider the warranty coverage that is both, being provided, and the coverage offered as an extension to protect you in the event of problems. Almost all appliance manufacturers provide a one year, limited warranty with the purchase of their product(s). Extended warranty coverage can be available very inexpensively, with good backing to provide coverage for years beyond the manufacturers' time frame. CBS News did a fantastic report on this a few years back. You can find this article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/10/earlyshow/contributors/raymartin/main3156565.shtml
Whirlpool makes a great washer in the Cabrio design, but there is a certain percentage that is going to have problems before the consumer expects. Again, a very good reason as to consider this important part of the purchase.
Many manufactures have even started cutting back further on the provided coverage. Some are just being offered for a mere 90 days. As long as the consumer feels warranty coverage isn't something they should have to concern themselves with, the manufacturers will comply.
Truly, the Cabrio has received a great deal of accolades within the industry, along with their sister product, the Bravo. Well worth owning. Even though it would have been $200, it was less than the replacement and, IMHO, been a lot better washer overall.
Posted by Venice09 on 2012-01-09:
Thank you for posting a separate review, Cherrycu2. I completely agree with your assessment of the situation, as do many other consumers. You are a victim of what is called planned obsolescence. It's the manufacturer's strategy to get consumers to buy extended warranties, which would be unnecessary if the products were made with any level of quality in the first place.
I have to say that based on the reviews I've seen on this site alone, I would not take a Cabrio for free. It sounds like a disastrous piece of junk not worth owning, and certainly not worth the investment of even more money for an extended warranty.
I am really sorry you are stuck with this junk and had to resort to purchasing an older washer to get the job done. That speaks volumes!
Posted by madconsumer on 2012-01-11:
great comment AYS!!
Posted by 2cent-er on 2012-01-28:
Early models did have an F-51 prob that was corrected. almost all F-51 problems now- are caused by clothes under wash basket or seal failure[non HE detergents OR crapo parts-failing too soon can cause this]F-51 simply means no or improper motor movement detected..call a local servicer-he/she can easily diagnose your problem. if it's just clothes [since it's so new-i suspect this is your problem]-not a major expense.
Posted by Blakarino on 2012-12-06:
My experience with the Maytag Bravos:
3 years no problem. Recently code F51. Appliance guy tightened the allen screw that holds the motor cover on the bottom of the washer. The washer works fine now. He said the screw had backed out ~5 turns. I believe the RPS is attached to the cover and when loosened it dropped down low enough not to "see" the trigger.
Posted by Laura B. on 2013-02-19:
Remember the "good old days" when a laundry pair would last 20 years or more? I am in my 50's but this was not THAT long ago! The costs are ridiculous for this POS! The thinking with this purchase was that "if I buy top-of-the-line, it will last a very long time." Believe me, I will NEVER buy Whirlpool again, and will stick with the least cost with the necessary functions. It's more do-able to replace a washer that costs $300 every 5 years than $2200 every 5 years.
Posted by Mike J on 2013-08-11:
I purchased a Cabrio and have the same issue, F51. This has been an issue for alot of people. The comments on here about it being the owners causing this issue is wrong. Do some research if you doubt this product has built in issues. I have used whirlpool for all my life as had my parents. The cabrio will likely keep me from buying another whirlpool again.
Posted by Katrina Rollings on 2013-11-17:
Whirlpool Bravos sucks. F51.= throw the thing out.
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Posted by Truth4me on 12/09/2009
I purchased a Cabrio set, washer and dryer. I spent almost $2,000. The washer is the worst washer I have used in my life. It 'locks' which is not a good thing, because you cannot see what is actually happening while it moves (if it moves at all). You can unlock it but it stops the whole process. The washer does not clean simple stains. It does not use enough water to do so. Or detergent. The washer has torn my blankets and my clothes have been ripped - this is due to the agitator arm that the Cabrio does not have - so when the clothes spin, the clothes go around each other and tightly weave together. Any large items like sheets and blankets wind inside themselves, sort of like the dryer, and this results in all the clothes winding up inside the larger pieces thus resulting in clothes inside (which is all clothes) being so bunched up and wrinkled, the dryer cannot possibly return your clothes 'wrinkle free' or even close to that term. This winding action also results in the clothes stretching around themselves and pulling apart, so the clothes are either stretched, torn, ripped or ruined.
I have tried everything in the last two years to remedy all problems, but none have succeeded.
The dryer has auto settings which don't amount to much - if one or two items get dry first, the drying action stops, it beeps and continues to just tumble (so they are not supposed to wrinkle) until those items are removed. This process continues - so the entire load is not dry all at once, which results in going back numerous times to remove clothes and restart the machine. The clothes never return wrinkle free. I have to iron everything. The clothes that come out of the Cabrio washer are many times so wrinkled there is no way they can be close to 'wrinkle free.'
I contacted Whirlpool corporate office with a letter and photos- the staff members who called had not 'read' the letter, were terribly patronizing and I became increasingly agitated (pun on words there). The letter never was seen by anyone in the executive offices, and the woman from their consumer affairs dept. told me she never read the letter either. Two weeks after her call, I called because I had heard nothing from them. Still waiting to hear. I definitely should have bought a washer with an agitating arm for about $300 and a simple dryer about the same price - I do intend to purse this matter because, after reading all the reviews which also reflect the same outcomes, I believe we have a good case against this company's products.
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Drilling Fluids Processing HandbookBy
- . ASME Shale Shaker Committee
Written by the Shale Shaker Committee of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, originally of the American Association of Drilling Engineers, the authors of this book are some of the most well-respected names in the world for drilling. The first edition, Shale Shakers and Drilling Fluid Systems, was only on shale shakers, a very important piece of machinery on a drilling rig that removes drill cuttings. The original book has been much expanded to include many other aspects of drilling solids control, including chapters on drilling fluids, cut-point curves, mud cleaners, and many other pieces of equipment that were not covered in the original book.
Drilling Engineers, Petroleum Engineers, Derrick men, Students in petroleum engineering departments, managers or supervisors in any company, small or integrated, that deals with drilling.
Hardbound, 700 Pages
Published: November 2004
Imprint: Gulf Professional Publishing
- BiographiesPreface1. Historical Perspective and Introduction2. Drilling Fluids3. Solids Calculation4. Cut Points5. Tank Arrangement 6. Scalping Shakers and Gumbo Removal7. Shale Shakers8. Settling Pits9. Gas Busters, Separators, and Degassers10. Suspension, Agitation, and Mixing of Drilling Fluids11. Hydrocyclones12. Mud Cleaners13. Centrifuges14. Use of the Capture Equation to Evaluate the Performance of Mechanical Separation Equipment Used to Process Drilling Fluids15. Dilution16. Waste Management17. The AC Induction Motor18. Centrifugal Pumps19. Solids Control in Underbalanced Drilling20. Smooth OperationsAppendixGlossaryIndex

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According to the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons, the majority of injuries and hospitalizations for people 65 years and older are the result of falls in and around the home. If that fallen senior is found within one hour, they have a 92% chance of being found alive. If found later, their odds of survival significantly drops.
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I have been working at Lockheed Martin full-time for more than 5 years
Pros – Lockheed Martin has great values and provides products that protect the war fighters and America. I think the compensation and benefits are very good compared to the rest of corporate America. You work on very advanced technology which is rare.
Cons – There is a lot of opportunity for advancement especially with the baby boomer generation getting close to retirement which Lockheed has a lot of. Unfortuntely you need to be in Engineering or Finance to really have any possibility of real career advancement. There aren't a lot of opportunities for the rest of us despite our strong leadership abilities.
Advice to Senior Management – Don't just look at someones education or current position when it comes to leadership positions. If someone has strong character, values, and work ethic they will probably be a better manager than say someone who has an engineering background but doesn't know how to work with people.
Yes, I would recommend this company to a friend
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I have been working at Lockheed Martin full-time for more than 5 years
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The frenzy to click makes us forget what matters
The Americans call it Monday morning quarterbacking, describing the self-appointed experts who stand back after the event and sagely offer their wisdom as to how a game was won or lost.
The Monday morning quarterbacks have been out in earnest in Australia the past few days gloating over the (apparent) failure of Click Frenzy, the biggest retail experiment our country has ever seen, in which some of the nation's biggest stores tried to fight back against lethal competition from foreign-based online stores.
The fact that the website crashed unleashed a wave of ridicule and, bizarrely enough, genuine anger towards the stores themselves and the operators of Click Frenzy.
Having your website crash because of the weight of public demand is unfortunate, but it is still a nice problem to have as it underscored people's willingness to spend their money locally. It is also something that can be rectified next time.
Instead of commending the retailers for doing something for local jobs and businesses, people have been going bananas about the fact that they missed out on the bargain of their choice, claiming that some of the bargains weren't really bargains at all, moaning that they spent too long waiting for the site to load.
In terms of human behaviour it has been a bit like the Christmas sales where people will half kill each other to be the first to get to the $50 plasma television.
Yet it is the retailers who have been copping all the flak, much of it from the mainstream media, much of it on social media, where the hashtag #clickfail saw the public pile on to register bitter disappointment.
The ACCC is now involved, amid dark warnings that people might receive spam emails from the retailers they signed up with for up to five years.
This is despite the fact that they can go through the simple process of clicking "unsubscribe" and never receive an email again, if they actually bothered to read the terms and conditions.
It puzzles me how the Click Frenzy episode has been discussed and reported. It is only superficially about our ability to shop and save some money. It is actually about something much more important than that - human beings and their ability to hold on to their jobs.
Australians have a weird kind of ambivalence towards their actions as consumers and the viability of industries which they regard as iconic.
Most Australians would agree that it is important that we have our own local car industry, even if they have a Hyundai or a Daewoo in their driveway, and they will criticise governments for failing to stem the loss of Australian jobs, even though their own actions as consumers have helped to create the problem.
I am not advocating protectionism at all, as tariffs distort markets and are economically unsustainable in the long term anyway, but I would encourage a bit more clear thinking on the part of those who can't see a link between their actions and the industrial realities.
Online shopping is different from the tariff argument though. The difference involves tax. Goods purchased from overseas shopping websites do not attract the GST under the value of $1000.
Even if the goods are valued at more than $1000 there are still ways of getting around paying the tax anyway. This is not a level playing field at all for Australian retailers.
Not only is it a good thing that local firms are banding together to promote domestic online shopping, despite the technical difficulties with this nascent website, I would argue the retailers should muscle up in their demands for the application of the GST on foreign goods.
If you oppose that, that's fine, but you would have to concede that what you're effectively saying is that you would rather pay $50 for a pair of jeans than pay a little bit more and keep someone local in work.
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Tim the Toolman says:
"$50 for a pair of jeans than pay a little bit more and keep someone local in work."
Why the dishonesty? You know (or should, if you've been paying a tiny bit of attention), that the disparity is orders of magnitude greater than the GST. If it was not, I doubt there would be so many people shopping from overseas. We're not talking about, on say, a $440 backpack I was looking at buying, a difference of $44. I can pick it up on my travel through London in a few weeks for around $290 AUD. So you're not asking for people to absorb a 10% difference, you're looking at, on this product alone, a difference of roughly 50% (inclusive of GST).
My wife ordered another bag, and paid the same for shipping, the one she wanted which was not in stock locally, and a purse (over $100) for the same price she would have paid to walk into a store to buy the bag.
The differences are not trivial nor can they be hand-waved away by claiming that the GST is responsible or even a large component.
Andrew says:
It's not about GST. You could go ahead and add the GST if you want but most products bought from the US will still cost 50% less than they do here.
I do wonder how you expect that GST to be collected cost effectively.
Slim says:
That the website crashed was entirely avoidable, hence the ridicule. The operators tell us they expected 1 million visits in 24 hours. This was a poor assumption to begin with. Even so, that is about 50,000 an hour or close to 1000 per minute. It's not that hard to anticipate the need for massive reserve capacity. Instantly scalable server technology is available through Amazon's S3 platform, for example, which can scale from 50 hits an hour to millions almost instantly. That the entrepreneur behind this scheme didn't anticipate this, or worse, didn't care, speaks directly to his competence. It's not rocket surgery. Not good enough.
Davo says:
Why did they think putting dozens of major retailers on one website and trying to sell everything in 24 hours wouldn't make it crash? Every retailer should have their own website on their own server and just be accessible all year round. But if the prices are going to be not much different anyway why bother. I can order from Germany or America just as easy from home as ordering from Sydney or Melbourne.
Schmavo says:
I would like to hire the brains behind Click Frenzy to organise all that free publicity for my business. Priceless! I wonder how graysonline feel about the hype?
Shane From Melbourne says:
"I am not advocating protectionism at all, as tariffs distort markets and are economically unsustainable in the long term anyway,"
Protectionism doesn't seem to have hurt the Asian countries who are heavily protectionist but eschew obvious protectionist measures such as tariff barriers in favor of regulating currency exchange, foreign investment, foreign land ownership etc. Meanwhile free trade countries like the United States and Great Britain are doing poorly.
Ally says:
I can't believe you're bringing this back to the GST issue. To start with, how exactly are you proposing that it be collected on overseas purchases? I can't see how you can force foreign companies to do it. Or are you proposing that customs should be doing it as packages enter the country?
As well as this, any person that shops online will tell that avoiding the GST is not why they do it. It's because there is a huge mark up on products in Australia, the range is smaller and the service is crap. A lot of the Australian retailers that are online have slow turn around times for orders and charge like wounded bulls for postage.
Complaining about the GST is just local retailers trying to push the problem on to someone else so they don't have to have a good hard look at their business models.
Mike says:
"This is not a level playing field at all for Australian retailers."
Yes, they can't compete on price. Have they maybe thought about competing on something else, like service? If they're offering the exact same product for double the price, chucked in a bag by an eye-rolling teenager, then my patience for their bleating is very limited.
Gerry Harveys propagandist says:
"If you oppose that, that's fine, but you would have to concede that what you're effectively saying is that you would rather pay $50 for a pair of jeans than pay a little bit more and keep someone local in work. "
Is this a paid ad for Harvey Norman/Westfield/The rest of the Australian Retail Mafia?
The fact of the maater is that for years Australian retailers have been gouging the Australian public, and in the pre Internet days thry could get away with it because the public didnt know any better. Well those days are over and now the Australian public can order direct from overseas retailers like Amazon etc. Now Jerry and the retail Mafia are crying foul to the goverment its not fair the Australian people arent buying our overpriced goods!! (and by overpriced I mean much more than the 10% GST) Tax them!!
I have noticed with considerable contempt since the Retailers campaign started that the goverments position keeps slipping.
Orginally it was no where not going to put GST on goods under $1000 it would cost more to run than we would get back in tax.
Then it slipped to we need a comittee to look into it
and lately its got to we should probbably do it
How much money has the Retail Mafia donated to the major political partys to get this turn around thats what I want to know?
Meh says:
The internet has decimated regional pricing policies and Australian sellers need to ban together to get products at close to the same price as availble internationally.
Camera's through Kogan's, which are essentially imports from HK, are 2/3rds the price of locally sold products. Even with postage and a 10% GST, I still saved around $200 on a DLSR for christmas.
Before ordering I tried every major sellers "Price Match" service and not one would come within $200 of what I am paying. Can't give the locals much more of a chance than asking to be sold to at the price you can get it, I was even willing to pay an extra $50 to $100 to keep it local.
Hmmmm says:
Wow Penbo, bit of a mismatched 'article'. What exactly are you trying to say?
ClickFrenzy - They underscoped their infrastructure, datamined their clients and wasted hours of peoples time - why should the target clients be angry?
Unsubscribe - LOL are you serious? Here is how it works.
You sign up under the Privacy Policy, you dont read the part that says they have the right to sell non personal information to 3rd parties. Guess what - email addresses are considered non personal information.
So you unsubscribed to the ClickFrenzy spam, how do you unsubscribe from the 20 companies they sold your data too?
Replying Unsubscribe to a spammer only lets them know the email address is active, then they will on-sell that to another 20 lists.
As for Aussies retailers of which I used to be one.
Guess what we cant get away with 20-30 % markups anymore. Sorry guys we screwed ourselves here with globilisation.
Cut down to 10-15% - Actually fire your shit staff that dont give customer service and actually think about how to get people into your bricks and mortar stores. Plenty of businesses are still doing fine.
Sell 30 Items at 10% + instead of 10 Items at 30% +
Worlds changed and whinging has never been scientifically proven to reverse it.
Kika says:
"If you oppose that, that's fine, but you would have to concede that what you're effectively saying is that you would rather pay $50 for a pair of jeans than pay a little bit more and keep someone local in work"
Paying GST or not is irrelevant! GST is a tax, right? So retailer doesn't 'earn' GST, it pays GST earned on their goods and services back to the ATO on their BAS statements. Unless you mean keeping public servants working for the ATO in their jobs… that is?
J.Locke says:
It's not just about saving money. The quality of goods and service don't match the high prices. Sure, charge me a bit extra to keep someone in a job, but don't sell me cheap rubbish served with a load of rudeness.
Retail is making the mistake of trying to be expensive and backwards at the same time. They're going to have to pick one.
St. Michael says:
Hmmm. Hunch ate my response? Let's find out:
Penbo, some of this article is seriously misleading. You should consider retraction or correction of an aspect of it.
"The ACCC is now involved, amid dark warnings that people might receive spam emails from the retailers they signed up with for up to five years. This is despite the fact that they can go through the simple process of clicking "unsubscribe" and never receive an email again, if they actually bothered to read the terms and conditions."
I bothered to actually go and read ClickFrenzy's Privacy Policy, which (per clause 3.1) has to be read in association with and therefore forms part of the terms and conditions of using that site. You can find the Privacy Policy: http://www.clickfrenzy.com.au/privacy-policy.html
The most germane provision I found was this one:
"3.5 With your consent, we may share your personal information that you provided to when you register (including registration for specials, updates or promotions via email) with our affiliates for direct marketing purposes. Subject to your continuing consent, your personal information will be processed for direct marketing purposes for a maximum of five (5) years from the date of your consent."
I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that when you first registered for ClickFrenzy, there was a small box you were required to tick which said, in effect "I agree to the terms and conditions" before you could go on the site.
If so, guess what: you consented to clause 3.5 above.
Clicking "unsubscribe" does just what it says: it removes you from ClickFrenzy's subscription list—but it does not wipe your details from their affiliates, i.e. their advertisers. For that, you would have to somehow e-mail ClickFrenzy and demand the removal of your details—independently of an unsubscribe. I'd be betting most people won't do that. And ClickFrenzy has no control of your details and doesn't even try to control them once they've gone to third parties.
In other words, the ACCC's dark warnings are perfectly justified. Unsubscribing gets you off ClickFrenzy's mailing list. It doesn't remove your details from its system, or indeed all its other systems. You should be correcting your article in light of that.
Although I'm sure this part of the Privacy Policy would bring a song to your heart, given your attitudes to intrusive security legislation against bikies:
"4.1 We may disclose your personal information to third parties in the following circumstances -
(a) if required to do so or permitted by law;
(b) to various regulatory bodies and law enforcement officials and agencies to protect against fraud and for security purposes; and
(c) to our third party service providers as well as to our related entities for the purpose of providing links to products or responding to your enquiries."
MF says:
"...but you would have to concede that what you're effectively saying is that you would rather pay $50 for a pair of jeans than pay a little bit more and keep someone local in work."
A little bit more? No problems. When you can buy Levi's from the US for $20-25 and they're over $100 in Australian shops, that's not a "little bit" more. That's a joke.
I would love to support Australian retail and am prepared to pay a small price premium to do so. But the Australian price premium is a national joke. If anybody thinks introducing the GST on items less than $1000 is going to make a lick of difference to people's online shopping habits, they're deluding themselves.
Kevb says:
"If you oppose that, that's fine, but you would have to concede that what you're effectively saying is that you would rather pay $50 for a pair of jeans than pay a little bit more and keep someone local in work. " - It's not my responsibility to support a business just so people have a job. Businesses have to earn their sales just like anyone else. I'm not going to buy from a local store just because they are there.
If you want to stem the bleeding from lost sales, shut up, stop whinging and start innovating and thinking of creative ways to win the customer over. I don't even know why I have to say this because anyone who runs a business should know that this is just part of the job.
steve says:
"Most Australians would agree that it is important that we have our own local car industry"
Since when?
Last time i checked the government was subsidising our car industry with $3b a year. And there was apparently 50 thousand workers in the industry, so they could have just given them all $60k a year each. Most workers would have probably been better off.
Why is this industry needed? What logical arguments can you make to convince me that an industry that requires so much subsidy is worth keeping? Surely the money could be better spent putting the people in the car industry to a more useful cause.
SAm says:
Retailers calls to have the GST on imports is nothing to do with 'saving jobs', they know it, we know it. Its all about spite. Its about some form of financial penalty for being 'unaustralian'. Its this nasty, vindictive attitude that people have had enough of, and why you wont find much love for retailers among many people.
It is not a crime for people to try to get the best deal so quit supporting such a nasty, dead industry
david says:
People will drift back to the shopping locally when the Aussie dollar drops against the US dollar.
YaThink says:
I am assuming that you had to do this piece in a hurry Mr Penberthy and didn't get time to do any research on it? In tech worlds they were complaining about all the advertising that this media hype was getting prior to the event itself. Small "Australian" online retailers were also complaining. But I guess they don't pay the various media organisations big bikkies in advertising so no-one is interested in them?
Basically, just viewing the site prior to launch would have had to make you suspicious. For something that was supposed to be the next big thing, it was not even built with custom software, instead with Free Open Source software (that had been customised, and not very well). A small retailer who sells at the market with an open source e-comm system is fine, even a larger one who has paid decent money to customise an open source piece of software is fine, BUT, for what these guys wanted to do, not a hope in hell and just about anyone with any knowledge of online software could have told the media who were fawning all over these people that.
I won't even start on their 'self-hosted' cloud rubbish as I would need my husband to do the technical stuff there. But again, was never going to work. Then we get to the pre-registration? Hello? Why would that be needed at all unless you were trying to make money out of email lists? You wanted to have an indication of visitor numbers, fine, just put in a little form, there was no need to datamine at all, that alone is suspicious.
What is probably most satisfying, is that there are a lot of small australian online retailers who do ok but never get the same advertising as the likes of Myer etc., they also don't have the same mark-ups. Most survive with a 10-15% mark up as the regular online purchaser is aware that the costs of running an online business are lower than a bricks & mortar one. Hence, they expect a lower price, even with GST added. These big boys tried to do what they have always done, get away with a heap of publicity and not really offer a bargain. Seriously, on some of that product they would have still had about a 100% mark-up (instead of their usual 300%), but without the added costs you would have in a 'real' store. Can you honestly blame all the little people for not crowing when it is found that the big PR ploy from the likes of Myer, Harvey Norman etc., who have spent decades trying to push smaller business to the wall fail?
Personally I think the people who expected to get big bargains were silly. Did they honestly believe Myer would give you 90% off something? Sorry Mr Penberthy, no Monday morning quarterbacking here. If the media had actually had a few online software 'experts' have a look over this before they shouted this scam from rooftops, instead of just talking to the so-called 'entrepreneur' behind this (ask some techs what his reputation really is?) they would not be looking so silly now.
The big end of retail town got what they deserved! As they say in Hustle "You can only con a greedy person".
Smulder says:
The real agenda of the Australian retailers is not the 10% GST, it is the $150 customs fee that applies to all imported goods over the threshhold, and the 2 weeks it takes to clear customs… not to mention the paperwork involved to get your goods released.
Noone cares about the $2 GST added on top of the $20 book you bought from Book Depository. But if your $20 book is now over the GST threshold, and attracted a $150 customs fee, 3 hours of paperwork and 2 weeks to clear, it might not seem so attractive.
Their aim is to make it so expensive, time consuming and difficult to buy that DVD from Amazon that you are willing to pay their 400% mark-ups instead.
The GST issue is just a distraction, and people are falling for it hook, line and sinker… including The Punch it seems.
Redeker Plan says:
This consistent whinging about the GST is a total red herring. 10% is not what's driving me to shop online; I would happily pay 10% extra to be offered the full range of clothes, shoes, etc. that are available to consumers in other countries, in a shop I could walk into, try them on and buy that day. But sadly, this is simply not the case.
Example: a couple months ago I needed a pair of casual good walking shoes/sneakers that were suitable for wearing to work. I've always worn Rockports even though they're hideously expensive and many of them are not the most attractive shoes. So I looked up their Australian website, saw some really nice ones I liked in a gorgeous range of colours, got a bit excited (comfort AND style – whatever next!) and looked up stockists. Rang the nearest Athlete's Foot and asked them if they had this particular shoe. Answer "Yes". After payday, I dutifully travelled to the nearest Athlete's Foot. Yes they had the shoe. They had it in black or oatmeal coloured leather, at $189 a pair. The other EIGHT colour and fabric combinations on the website were not offered in Australia. The lovely young bloke working assisting me looked around before whispering that I "should maybe try online".
So I tried the ugly ones on, and the young bloke wrote down my US size. I went home, got onto Amazon. Looked them up and there they were – all colour and fabric choices available in my size. One pair I liked was US$55. Another was $58. I bought both, and even with shipping at over US$20, I got two pairs of shoes that I loved for less than the price of one pair of the arse-ugly ones being flogged at me here. Even if the GST HAD been applied I STILL would have been ahead!
So should I feel guilty about not supporting Australian retail? To tell the truth for a couple of hours I actually did feel a bit bad about not being able to give a sale to the young guy working at the shop here, as he was a fantastic help and offered great service. But I'm not going to buy shoes I don't like at a rip-off price just because some retail buyer thinks that I'll accept whatever crap gets thrown in front of me.
But nah, Australian retailers; you keep telling yourself it's about the GST….
Rich says:
Unfortunately, so much brand name product in Australia is controlled by a single distributor who gets exclusive control and can therefore mark up the products horrendously. They could get away with it before people became aware of just how much extra we are paying. Well, they can't do it anymore. For this reason, unless i only see a reasonable price difference, I will not generally support local as they have a history of fleecing us when they had the chance.
Disgruntled Goat says:
Retail will always exist in Australia, lets face it there is always that new shirt, replacement toaster, new batteries you need to get the same day instead of waiting days to weeks.
That said more needs to be done to reduce the cost of items! rents NEED to be dropped for starters for retain tenants also one thing is the local pricing on digitally distributed items is a massive SCAM, for versions of Adobe products you are looking at hundreds if not an extra K more for a product DOWNLOADED over the net, also the local steam store will sell a new release game for the EXACT price as a physical copy (though Valve does have those awesome "summer" and "xmas sales".)
One last thing Australians simply are being gouged by car rego, utility bills, food prices so most of us will look online to save money and get things we like!
expat says:
It is far more complicated than just the GST and retailers marking up prices.
The cost of running the business in Australia is far greater than that of any of the online retailers.
You can start an online shop with the servers based in cyprus for minimal tax, the minimal labour, warehousing and servicing in the philippines, selling direct to Australian consumers and not be expected to comply with a single rule or regulation within Australia including the ACCC.
Tell me why anyone would want to have a brick and mortar retail business in Aus?
Debbie says:
Last Xmas I ordered some military books for my husband for Xmas from an online store in the US and a couple of others ( that were in stock and availalbe) from a store in Melbourne over the phone. 3 days later my books arrived - from the USA, at less than 50% of the cost of the books here. 2 weeks later, my books arrived from Melbourne!
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This page contains Harry Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix Hints for Nintendo Wii called "Attacking teachers" and has been posted or updated on Jul 17, 2007 by namaan1712. Let us know what you think of this Hint by thumbs voting.
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Why Easter Doesn't Often Connect with Unchurched People (And How to Change That)
Chances are there will be far more people in your church this weekend than normal.
And chances are a good number of them normally don't go to church.
What's so sad is that many unchurched people will walk away from the most powerful story ever told unchanged, unaffected, and they won't be back (until next year…maybe).
That's a great question, and the good news is once you know why, you can do something about it.
Yes It's Spiritual, But It's Also Practical
You could say that the reason unchurched people leave holidays like Christmas, Easter and Good Friday largely unchanged is because God hasn't opened their hearts. Or that they're just closed. Or that it's all up to God anyway. And there might be some truth in that.
But the reality is that some churches will be more effective at retaining unchurched people because they've figured out what the greatest challenge with major Christian holidays is.
It's familiarity.
Unchurched people know the Easter (and Christmas and Good Friday) story. They just don't care.
3 Things Unchurched People Think
While I don't think you can poll peoples' thought patterns, I think you can pick up on them. If I had to guess what unchurched people are thinking when they walk into the room on a major Christian holiday, here's my guess. Here are three thought patterns I think I've met over and over again in the people I've talked to:


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It's Advising Awareness Week in the Wisconsin School of Business! Check back each day this week to meet the academic and career advisors for your major and learn how to make the most of your advising experience. Today, meet Deb Tobin and Jamie Marsh Finco, the advising team for the Finance, Investment and Banking major.
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To schedule an appointment with Deb for academic and course-related questions:
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CHICAGO – Governor Pat Quinn today addressed the annual Illinois Governor's Conference on Affordable Housing where he discussed the state's commitment to affordable homeownership and his new Welcome Home Illinois loan program for first-time homebuyers. The mortgage assistance package has seen significant interest since its launch in March – so far 384 Illinois residents have reserved $46 million in total financing. The conference is part of Governor Quinn's agenda to drive Illinois' economy forward by improving access to affordable housing.
CHICAGO – Governor Pat Quinn proclaimed Tuesday, April 22 as "Earth Day" in Illinois and urged residents to get outdoors and involved in keeping Illinois at the forefront of conservation and sustainability. The Governor also discussed the work the state is doing to improve sustainability and protect our environment. Today's proclamation is part of Governor Quinn's agenda to protect our natural resources and ensure a clean and healthy environment for future generations.
Happy Earth Month!
CHICAGO – In an effort to stamp out child abuse in Illinois, Governor Pat Quinn joins Children's Home + Aid and the Illinois Blue Bow Committee to create the Governor's Pledge. The Governor's Pledge, launched in April for Child Abuse Prevention Month, urges the public to take an active role in the prevention of child abuse and neglect.
Take the Pledge!
CHICAGO – Two weeks after first launching the Welcome Home Illinois loan program, Governor Pat Quinn is traveling to cities across Illinois to raise awareness of the program, discuss its benefits and explain how people can participate. The Governor is visiting Chicago, Rockford, the Quad Cities and Peoria to discuss the impact first-time homebuyers have on the state's economy and urge them to act fast while the program is available. The events are part of Governor Quinn's agenda to drive economic growth by making homeownership more affordable in Illinois.
SPRINGFIELD – Days after receiving positive feedback from bond rating agencies regarding his fiscal year 2015 budget plan, Governor Pat Quinn today unveiled a six-year, $8.6 billion construction program that will improve roads and bridges throughout Illinois while making major investments in public transportation. The projects are part of Governor Quinn's agenda to create jobs and build a 21st century infrastructure that will drive Illinois' economy forward.
The Governor's Office is joining with members of the General Assembly, state agency representatives, parents, school administrators, teachers, labor unions and advocacy groups to examine governance, funding and other issues associated with the education options for blind and/or deaf students.
The Governor's Office is joining with the Office of the Comptroller, the Office of Management & Budget, the Department of Human Services, the Department of Revenue and the Department of Corrections to begin the process of modernizing the State's Financial Accounting Systems.