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Anand beats Shirov 4.5-1.5 in León
On Sunday Viswanathan Anand defeated Alexei Shirov 4.5-1.5 in their match in León, Spain. On all three playing days the World Champion won one game and drew one to clinch his 8th title in León. Struggling to find his best form, Shirov was no match for an Anand in good shape.
General info
The 24th edition of the Magistral Ciudad de León took place in the León Auditorium, from Friday, June 3rd till Sunday, June 5th. This year the main event was a 6-game match between World Champion Vishy Anand and Alexei Shirov. Contrary to what we wrote before, the rate of play was 40 minutes per game plus 30 seconds increment after each move.
Report days 2 and 3
The second day (read our first report here) of the festival in León started at 12.00 with a lecture by GM Miguel Illescas about the famous Kasparov-Deep Blue match (the eight times Spanish Champion was part of the IBM team in 1997). Illescas revealed that he had given the following advice to the computer company: "You are scientists and do everything with that intention. But Kasparov, when he sits behind the board, is a murderer. Therefore, we have to program the machine to play against a murderer, that is, it sometimes needs to make a move that will not be the best, but bothers Kasparov the most." That strategy was successful, because the Russian lost 2.5-3.5 for lack of control over his nerves, amazed by the style of his inhuman opponent.
Leontxo Garcia and Miguel Illescas during the lecture
Then, back in the Auditorio at 16.30, the second playing day began badly for Shirov. "I was lost before play started," the Latvian grandmaster said afterwards. "I could not find any satisfactory variation against the Caro-Kann during my morning preparation in the hotel. So I got to the stage in not a very good mood. Then I chose a very aggressive line, with the hope that, playing with White, at least I would achieve a draw. This was clearly not right."
In the Advance variation (1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5) Shirov played 4.g4, but the game became a "textbook example" (Anand) of how to exploit this move, and the weakness of a king stuck in the centre. At move 17, in a hopeless middlegame position, Shirov resigned already.
The third game of the match was the most quiet thus far. Anand avoided the sharp Anti-Moscow Gambit this time and went for the proper Moscow line of the Semi-Slav. Many pieces were traded at an early stage and with a symmetrical pawn structure the ending was only marginally better for White. At move 23 Anand decided that a draw was OK.
The podium of the Auditorio
Sunday saw the same scenario for the third time: one win for Anand, and one draw. Like on Saturday, the World Champion was victorious with the black pieces in a Caro-Kann. In his third attempt Shirov tried the move 4.h4, like he had done in his last tournament in Lublin about two weeks ago. Anand was well prepared and quickly gained a small advantage in an ending with two rooks and two knights for both sides.
Again, Shirov was punished for taking too many risks. Activating his king on the kingside was brilliantly punished by Anand. The World Champion successfully played a mating attack based on deep calculation, and forced Shirov to resign at move 41. It was of less importance that the computer engines pointed out that, for one moment, both players had missed an opportunity for the white king to escape the mating net.
Anand beats Shirov with a nice combination in game 5
Although he couldn't find his best form in León, Shirov could at least finish his match with a decent 6th game. In another Moscow Semi-Slav Anand had some slight pressure in the middlegame, but Shirov played accurately and managed to reach a drawn rook ending.
And so Vishy Anand won the tournament in León for the eighth time. In his press release, press officer Leontxo Garcia wrote that it's becoming more and more clear that the Indian is one of the best chess players of all time. And indeed, Anand's play was very convincing and it's not clear whether his chess is any weaker than, say, ten years ago.
Afterwards there was first a press conference of about half an hour with the two players, attended by about eighty chess fans. After this, at exactly eight o'clock, the two were interviewed live for local TV again. "This success shows that it is sometimes beneficial to have a few weeks off from training and tournaments, as I did after I became a father for the first time. I came to León hungry for chess and I am very satisfied with my play," Anand said.
Anand and Shirov at Saturday's press conference
Shirov was self-critical, but one must always be as a chess player: "I will need some days to draw clear conclusions, but obviously I need to change something in the preparation and choice of openings, because that's been my main problem, especially with the white pieces."
Afterwards Anand did a few more brief interviews and both players signed many autographs. Tomorrow the festival finishes with a simul by Shirov. The Latvian GM will play his following tournament game already next Thursday, in the Sigeman tournament in Malmö, where his main rivals will be Anish Giri and Wesley So. Anand won't be playing tournaments in the next few months.
Games 3-6
Game viewer by ChessTempo
Next year the 25th celebration edition of the tournament will be held. Despite the economical crisis in Spain, the organizers hope to create something special for this edition. Although this year's match was quite entertaining, tournament director Marcelino Sión is planning to try to return to the 4-player format. We can only hope that the sponsors, who have been loyal for so many years already, will make this possible.
The writer of this report is preparing a video about the tournament, and also did an interview with Vishy Anand on Sunday night, in which the World Champion speaks about becoming a father, about Kazan, and much more. Both will be published in the coming week, so stay tuned!
Excellent report Peter ! Can't wait for the interview. Was there any prize money for this match ?
2 years 10 months ago
Leon match is another important event for our Tamilnadu World Chess Champion.. During last 60 years only four countries could boast of a World Champion...Soviet Union/Russia, USA, Bulgaria and India.. In spite of being a world champion for almost 5 years, his native country which takes pride in many big sporting events IPL, World Cup Cricket, and other events could not conduct a single big chess tournament involving Anand after he became world champion, . Even Bulgaria initiated top level tournament once Topalov won the championship.. Here is a country where chess was born and today has so many names in worlds richest list of 100 , could not organize even a super grandmaster chess tournament. All it could do was to question Anand's citizenship when a honarary doctorate was proposed to be conferred on him.. What is AICF doing?
2 years 10 months ago
Why do you expect AICF to do anything? In your own words, Anand is the "Tamilnadu World Chess Champion" so let TNCA do something. Very narrow-minded post indeed.
The Powerful Secretary of AICF Mr. Sunder is from Tamil Nadu. Let him do something instead of putting all in his pocket. The billionare Mr. Srinvasan of BCCI india is also from Tamil Nadu. Let this people do something.
The billionare Srinivasan is also a president of Tamil Nadu Chess association.
You know that.
Well observed and said Idli.
I am glad that the Indian fans (a billion strong) are finally speaking up for Anand about whom they should be rightfully VERY PROUD OF. This means being outraged and defending against stupid politicians.
You also make a valid point. As the second-most powerful emerging economy in the world, with so much money to go around and being spent on Cricket, they India and Indians should find ways to spend a little bit of that in support of their one-in-a-billion-billion people's champion.
2 years 10 months ago
Was it Anand's superior play or Shirov's poor preparation? Anyway it was nice for the veiwers to see some exciting chess and some results rather than boring draws.
Thanks Shirov for the bold and attacking play though you lost out in the process to the World Champion. Thanks Anand to show us once again how good you are and a warning for Gelfand to be better prepared than anytime before in his life.
"Some of us are even convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he is the "best chess player of all time!""
There can't be many of you :-)
2 years 10 months ago
Anand is not the most dominant player of all time, neither did he win the most number of tournaments,... but he is the most versatile player of all time. He proved that many times in his still ongoing career. No matter the time control (classical, rapid or blitz), type of chess (classical, advanced, blindfold) or the system of competition (tournament, matches, KO) he has won it all! In that respect no other player comes even close to Anand.
Anand is versatile indeed, and this also puts Carlsen's performances in all formats in perspective. He won Amber rapid the last years, as well as the rapid minimatch against Anand last year, he is the last of the two to win Amber blindfold, and when he won the World Blitz Championship he scored 2-0 against Anand. In classical chess he has won many tournaments the last years and has usually been first on the rating list. So in all it's only in matches Anand has been clearly superior to the teenage Carlsen 2008-10, when Carlsen hasn't played any matches. Just the fact that Anand can be discussed as a candidate to the greatest ever title ahead of players like Kasparov and Lasker shows that Carlsen already has come a long way when he isn't too far behind a legendary player like Anand already as a teenager.
@ gg
''..Carlsen already has come a long way...''
He has indeed. He's also showing more vesatility than his x-coach, Kasparov.
But skipping out for a commercial break to avoid the candidates matches was a horrible call. ..cost him dearly. Lost time. Lost respect from peers and fans!
Sportsman. Character plus Results separate the men from the boys.
A long rough road ahead. We'll soon see if the ton of hype his media men have heaped upon us about him.... will weigh the poor feller down.
"skipping out for a commercial break to avoid the candidates matches was a horrible call. ..cost him dearly. Lost time. Lost respect from peers and fans!
Sportsman. Character plus Results separate the men from the boys.
A long rough road ahead. We'll soon see if the ton of hype his media men have heaped upon us about him…. will weigh the poor feller down"
I guess Carlsen's dislike for the cycle changes and Kazan format quickly made him the least liked chess player in the world. But I see him as an honest person being unhappy with the way FIDE handled the cycle and not wanting anything to do with it. All the talk about tons of hype being heaped upon him by his media men sounds exaggerated, I think Carlsen is an underappreciated player if you look at his results the last years. 3000+ performance in one of the highest rated tournaments ever, 2800+ and #1 as a teenager, winner in Amber rapid/blindfold, first in the World Blitz after going 8-0 against the others in the top five, repeated wins in super tournaments like Nanjing, London and Wijk, etc. I don't even think he cares that much about chess compared to someone like Kasparov, I wouldn't be surprised if he quit playing much earlier than people expect.
There might be more than you think!
Two-thirds of the world's population are resident in Asia, let alone the Asian immigrants around the world!
Maybe some Indians think there is at least a shadow of a doubt that Anand should be ranked ahead of Kasparov. :-) Anand is a great player but was no problem for Kasparov most of the time (14-1 in wins or something like that the last dozen years they played each other). Anand reached the #1 spot for the first time in his 38th year (at that age Kasparov had already been #1 for 17 years), and has soon gone four years without winning a single tournament. It's just not enough to be the greatest ever but definitely top ten, maybe even top five is within reach.
It is a question of context, and interpretation.
A few months ago, I had dinner with a few of my Asian friends - Indians, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis, Chinese, Filipinos, Malaysians, Indonesians, and even Malays, all of them chess players. Mostly former chess players but some current ones as well.
An interesting topic of discussion was - "what if Kasparov was born in India and Anand in esrtwhile USSR?" and the overwhleming opinion was "Anand would have been the world champion by the early nineties, while Kasparov's reign would have been very short - if at all"!
2 years 10 months ago
Agree with you Stanley Peters. Anand is the greatest chess talent ever, as stated by people like Topalov himself. You know he is the first grand master from india. How many GMs might have been there leading to Kasparov in Russia?!, Actually Anand came out from nothing, and still he is getting stronger with age, it seems. You dont have to worry what age he became world number 1, but he is world number 1, people doesnt beat him often, and he was always on top3 for most of career. Regarding tournaments, just look at the rating lists on the years when Kasparov was on top. Kasparov was 2800s and others far and few most of them below 2700.His peers were not as strong as Anand's peers. Right now there are 3 and potentially many more above 2800. But still Anand remains on top. Everybody has access to srongest chess machine s and they are making use of it, and a person from older generation remains on top as ever. This is miraculous and unbelievable!! Kudos to Anand.
2 years 10 months ago
I am from India.
Everybody knows Anand is a great player but please dont even compare him with Kasparov.
Even if you are from India... It used to be that home country umpires would be officiating in test matches between two cricketing nations. I believe India was the first country to ask for neutral umpires when they have to play in India. That is the neutrality of Indian umpires!
So it does not matter where you are from, the merit of your argument is what matters.
Shirov really disappointed this time. He was playing some very risky and dubious lines and got crushed by Anand. Such tactics might work against 2600 rated players, but not against the Champ. I hope he picks himself up.
Anand was well-prepared in Caro-Kann and used perfectly mistakes made by Shirov. He didn't really push that hard with white in the last two games and it's amazing to think that Anand could have scored more if needed.
2 years 10 months ago
Looks like Shirov could use some mainline Caro-Kann knowledge :)
2 years 10 months ago
Shirov has problems against Anand, not against the Caro-Kann in general. His overall score with white (from chessgames.com, all formats) is +36=25-15 - that's a bit misleading as it includes relatively weak opponents. But since 2007, he beat 2700ers Morozevich, Topalov, Kamsky, Eljanov and Jobava (some wins were crushing). His all-time losses were against Anand (6*), Karpov still going strong (4*), Ivanchuk, Kramnik, Grischuk plus - OK - Nisipeanu and Vallejo who are nominally weaker but always dangerous.
"press officer Leontxo Garcia wrote that it's becoming more and more clear that the Indian is one of the best chess players of all time."
For many of us this has been clear for quite some time. Some of us are even convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he is the "best chess player of all time!"
Glad to see Mr. Garcia becoming more and more aware of GM Anand's rightful place in chess history.
Ironically, Anand is probably the first to admit he never absolutely dominated the chess scene the way Fischer, Karpov and Kasparov did in their days. Isn't it enough to say that he's currently the best player in the world? Perhaps one day he can prove he is in the same league as the guys mentioned above - e.g., by beating Carlsen in a match.
@Arne Moll
"Ironically, Anand is probably the first to admit he never absolutely dominated the chess scene the way Fischer, Karpov and Kasparov did in their days"
Anand is a humble man. Not prone to boasting. In a league of his own.
The naked truth. F-K-K would not have >>absolutely dominated<< the chess scene of their day had they faced the same level of competition Anand faces day after day.
2 years 10 months ago
Your last remark may well be true, but a "naked truth" requres some evidence - being merely your guess is not quite enough.
The level of opposition Kasparov faced was hardly weak if Anand and Karpov are supposed to be the strongest players ever except for Kasparov.
"The level of opposition Kasparov faced was hardly weak if Anand and Karpov are supposed to be the strongest players ever except for Kasparov."
No, it wasnt weak. It was very strong. But, when compared to the army of super talents Anand has been up against: Gelfand, Ivanchuk, Kamsky, Kramnik, Ponomariov, Topalov, Grischuk, Aronian, Carlsen, just to name a few, Kasparov had it easy.
Evidence for "naked truth" about level of competition.
There are several others but let me just state one example.
The fact that Kasparov quit from chess at or around when he was 40 years of age. Smyslov was 63 when Kasparov played him for the challengership. Either Smyslov was so strong and greater than Kasparov, that he was playing in candidates final at 60+ age. But no one says that. Or it is that the weak competition allowed him to stay at top for long. Then no wonder Kasparov dominated such weak field!
How Kasparov dominated?
Kasparov thoroughly lost to Kramnik without winning a single game. Kasparov - Karpov matches were always a toss up with neither one dominated the other. We can't take the results of Kasparov - Anand seriously since it wasn't conducted under neutral supervision. Kasparov ducked Anand afterwards in 1998, 1999 and after 2000 when Kramnik asked Kasparov to play Anand for challengership. Around 2007 again Anand asked Kasparov for a match. In all these occasions, Kasparov only let his propaganda team do his work with his ratings and tournament results which everyone knows is manipulatable. Only if Anand had access to computers like he had later on and like he has now without having to rely too much on seconds, Anand - Kasparov would have been very one sided in Anand's favor. Knowing this, either Kasparov avoided Anand or Kasparov's sponsors were preventing a clash to avoid brand name damage! It is damaged anyway now from overwhelming success Anand is producing!
Do we need to go into Anand lightning skills, his rapid records, his childhood beating GM's in classical games within 15 minutes on more than one occasion, his simul floor, blindfold, fischer random skills, move accuracy, chess skills as admired by his seconds, opponents, his end game skills etc? Kasparov is no way comparable to Anand. Carlsen has played blitz with Kasparov, defintely he can tell, if you don't believe me.
Although Shirov lost, in my book he is still a great player. I am totally biased in favor of sharp play. Anything else is just boring. Good to see some kick ass chess after the snooze-fest at Kazan.
Too bad Peter does not have a twin. P1 would have covered this and P2 would have covered the Polish federation 's Kings Gambit tournament. I don't know if there is anybody better than Anand (right now) in terms of preparing for a specific opponent.
2 years 10 months ago
Scary the ease with which Anand dispatched a player of Shirov's caliber. Watch out Gelfand!
I forgot to add:
Thank you Peter! I give you a hard time, all the time but I'm just having a bit of fun (at your expense of course). Thanks again. :)
2 years 10 months ago
Anand does well against unbalanced players anyway, and he is stronger than Shirov to start with. Anand dispatched Kramnik and Topalov by playing on their weaknesses, but I will be very interested to see his match strategy against Gelfand because Gelfand is a very well rounded solid player.
'but I will be very interested to see his match strategy against Gelfand because Gelfand is a very well rounded solid player.'
One cannot get any more well rounded solid player as Kramnik, or so was the myth. Every player will have weaknesses as we are all human. Its up to their opponent to probe and find out what the weaknesses are. In the Anand-Gelfand match one will have to find out who will be successful in doing that.
Karpov and Kasparov are two obvious players, who were stronger than Vishy. But after that it's not so obvious.
Lasker was very dominant, but then again he played very rarely at times. It's hard to compare with modern times.
Alekhin is my favorite player of all time. But other than Capa he did not have any elite competition and they didn't even play in the same tournaments after Buenos Aires.
Botvinnik also played very rarely when he was the champ and he wasn't that great during those years. Smyslov had a great stretch in the 50s, but I can't see how Anand's results are worse in the 00s. Spassky had a great run from the mid-60s until his match against Fischer. But Anand has been a real force for a quite longer time. Fischer probably has the highest peak of them all, but it's only 4-5 years at best.
Anand has been a top3 player since 1995. That's 16 years and counting. Very impressive.
We can add that current era is the most competitive since the 50s and 60s. Then we had older generation in Botvinnik, Keres and Reshevsky and young guns in Smyslov, Tal, Petrosian, Spassky, Bronstein, Geller.
In the 90s-80s we had older Karpov, Kasparov in his prime, young guns in Kramnik, Anand, Ivanchuk, Topalov, Leko, Kamsky, Shirov, Gelfand. Later Carlsen, Karjakin, Aronian. That's probably even stiffer competition than in the 50s-60s. In both cases counting only those who were close to championship level.
Meant 90s -00s. And forgot to add Bobby to the 50-60s class.
2 years 10 months ago
I agree with you that Kasparov is a stronger player than Anand. But I am fairly certain that Anand is a stronger player than Karpov. There's no doubt in my mind. It would be interesting to see statistics on their play to validate.
There are two sides with Karpov.
On the one side he did totally dominate when there was an obvious lack of talent. You had old squad like Kortchnoi, Tal, Spassky and even Smyslov. They were no match to the young champion. Karpov did win pretty much every tournament.
But Karpov played a lot of games against Kasparov. That's the toughest competition you can get and Karpov lost only a few games more than he won. So they were very evenly matched.
In the end Karpov was a clear #1 from 1974 until around 1984/85. Then #2 until around 1995. That's roughly 20 years as top2 in the world. And if not Kasparov (the strongest of all time) he would have been #1 all those years. Even Anand can't touch that yet. If Anand wins 2-3 matches, then you could starting to make a case that Vishy is #2 after Garry.
2 years 10 months ago
"Well rounded and solid player" - any player fits that description better than Kramnik?
Jenson fan
2 years 10 months ago
Kramnik isn't well rounded he is too focused on positional play. This means he very often gets superior positions however his lack of energy, and slightly less than optimal calculation and below perfect attacking skill means he often doesn't finish off his opponent. Anand can defend better than anyone ever has and is probably second most precise attacker behind Kasparov.
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Explore Undiscovered Food, Fashion & Fun.
Sometimes, on a cold winter's night, you need something to warm you up. Sometimes, on that same night, you're stuck at a holiday dinner next to your aunt who asks fourteen times why you aren't married. Here's a drink from chef Michael Chernow to help you get through.
Get the recipe. Buy The Meatball Shop Cookbook online at amazon.com, $28.


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Lavender & White Pettiskirt
Our Gorgeous pettiskirts feature an elegant ribbon at the waist! Each Pettiskirt is made with layers and layers of soft chiffon which makes it perfect for twirling.
Celebrate special moments such as birthdays, holidays, photo shoots with a special pettiskirt. Pettiskirts are also fun for everyday fun, pair them with a some leggings for an extra touch.
Baby | Girls | Boys | Gifts & Occasions | Shop by Designer | What's New | Furniture | Room Decor | Baby Blankets
Meal Time | Bath Time | Play Time | Baby Accessories | Baby Apparel | Baby Bedding | Baby Shower Gifts | Unique Baby Gift
Hand Painted Wall Letters | Mommy Jewelry


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What We Do
The Office of Communications & Marketing (OCM) develops comprehensive communications and marketing strategies to support initiatives that are central to IU South Bend's mission.
Working with individuals across the campus, we extend and reinforce the goals and identity of IU South Bend through various media. Our goal is to create the right communication tool produced in the most professional and cost-effective manner and deliver information in the most useful and integrated way.
Communications Strategic Planning
Media Relations
Crisis Communications
Social Media Engagement
Print & Digital Design Services
Copywriting & Editing
Web Content Management


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Customer Reviews for New Additions Simply Chic Vertical Blind Alternatives
"Great product"
By Lake girl from Indian lake pa
We bought these blinds for the sliding glass door in our living room. We live in west pa where the winters can be quite cold. The blinds provide a very elegant look to the living area while providing insulation from the cold and protects our flooring and furniture from the afternoon sun. I have two other rooms with sliding glass doors and will be replacing the vertical blinds that came with the house with these elegant looking blinds.View this product
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The curtain fit great and blocks out all light. Very happy with purchase. Instructions were very difficult to follow and required two people to install. Once up, works great.View this product


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AAA Car Buying
2007 Honda Accord EX-L
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When we find your dream car, AAA Car Buying will negotiate a great price for you and help arrange financing. We can even protect your vehicle with an Extended Service Contract.
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The AAA Auto buying tools app makes shopping for a new car simple and stress-free. You can contact dealers and AAA for purchase. Share car details on Facebook, Twitter or email. Current app is available for iPhone users only. Get the app
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Learn what you need to know before you buy a new or used car. Check out AAA's online Auto Reviews today!
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Dear Mr. Shultz: Recently, I purchased the fourth family vehicle through the AAA Car Buying Program, and the ultimate reason is due to Mike Willand at the Sun City West office. From the first to the fourth vehicle purchased, Mike has taken a genuine... - Donna Batie
We just purchased a NEW Honda CRV with Paul's assistance this past week. We saw him for the first time at the end of last week on Jan 10th and we picked up the new car on Jan 14th. Now that is amazing service. We thought we should just get a used car... - Leif J.
As I'm a very busy professional and mom, I don't often take the time to comment on personal experiences based on purchases etc. However, as I know they do matter a great deal I wanted to be sure to take time out of my day today and send well deserved... - Emily B.
Mr. Shultz, I would like to thank you and AAA's Car Buying service for helping us to find our first car. I would especially like to recognize the hard work of Paul Leeman, our car buying consultant, who worked long and hard to find us a really great... - Alyssa M.
Hi Mr. Shultz, I wanted to send you a short note about how happy and pleased I was with Paul Leeman. The last new car I bought was in 1997. The only thing I remember about that purchase was being at the dealership all day. I spoke with Paul on the... - Sonja A.
Mr. Shultz, I wanted to let you know what a pleasure it was to buy my new "used" car with Paul Leeman! I have used the AAA Car Buying service in the past to purchase a total of 3 used vehicles. I had such a wonderful experience with AAA and Luther... - Linda K.
Hello Mr. Shultz: Last week I purchased a new vehicle through AAA with the help of Michael Willand. This was my first experience with AAA and I wanted to let you know what a wonderful experience it was thanks to Mr. Willand. I have purchased many... - Angie M.
Good Evening Joe, My name is Ryan K. and I recently purchased a used car through the AAA Car Buying Service at the Chandler, AZ office. I wanted to take a moment to compliment the job Wade Wilkinson did for my girlfriend and I. We recently moved to... - Ryan K.
Dear Bill, Thank you so much for taking care of my car when I needed help the most! When I called you on Thursday you asked if I was home and I was. You sent me a driver with a loaner car within an hour. The next morning you called to say my car was... - Roberta R.
We have been contemplating the purchase of a new car for some time now but we both dreaded the experience of dealing with local Toyota dealerships due to our past experience. In 2004, we drove to a Tucson Toyota dealership with the intention of buying a... - Bob & Mary B.
Dear Joseph, I am writing you to express my satisfaction with the car buying consultant at my neighborhood AAA office on Thunderbird and 75th Avenue. My father, Jerome Roland, used your assistance in the 90s to buy a car, and again 8 years ago. As a new... - Kimberly R.
Every aspect of how Joe Shultz and Mike Willand handled our transaction was professional, courteous, and efficient. They both were amazing at how well they handled everything. They saved us money. They got us the perfect vehicle for our needs, one... - Lee & Sandy M.
Recently my husband decided it was time for a new car. Purchasing a car is rarely a satisfying or enjoyable experience. One always feels the best deal was not made. After talking with friends who had used the AAA service, we decided that was the way to... - Vicki B.
Dear Mr. Shultz, My wife and I recently bought a car through the AAA car buying program and cannot say enough about what a pleasant experience it was. The difference between the AAA program and having to shop at individual dealerships is tremendous. I... - Jim P.
Dear Mr. Wilkinson, I just wanted to send you a quick email to thank you for helping me find and purchase my Mustang! I know that we were rushed since my parents were leaving and therefore we probably made you work harder, so I just want to let you know... - Marie R.
Just a quick note on behalf of my husband and I about our car buying experience with Paul Leeman. We were return customers from some years ago and thought there could not be a better way of purchasing a car than through AAA. When we met with Paul we... - Phyllis & Joe C.
I wanted to thank you for making the purchase of the 2112 Mazda 3 new car so effortless and easy. It was fun buying the car using AAA Car Buying Service for the second time. I used Consumer Reports to find three Cars which I felt would fit my needs, then... - David C. K.


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Let Them Eat Cake!
Material List
- Krylon Interior Exterior Multi-Purpose Primer
- Krylon Interior/Exterior Flat White
- Krylon Interior/Exterior Gum Drop
- Extra Large Size Round Tin
- Medium Size Round Tin
- Small Size Round Tin
- Extra Small Size Round Tine
- Fresh or Faux Hydrangeas
- Leftover Newspaper/Recycled Paper
- Painter's Tape - 2" Width
Project Instructions
Step: 1
Start by spraying the tins with Krylon Interior/Exterior Primer (51318). If the tins already have a design on them that you are tyring to cover, you may need to spray a couple of layers of primer. Allow paint to dry between layers.
Step: 2
Once all tins are evenly coated and dry, spray all the tins with Krylon Interior/Exterior Flat White (51502). Wait for the paint to completely dry.
Step: 3
Take the extra large, medium and extra small tins and tape evenly spaced vertical lines all around the side of each tin.
Step: 4
Cover the top and bottom of each tin used in the previous step with either tape or newspaper and spray Krylon Interior/Exterior Gum Drop (51513) around the side of each tin.
Step: 5
After the paint dries, carefully remove the tape from the sides.
Step: 6
Finish off with a protective coat of Krylon Matte Finish (1311)
Step: 7
Decorate with fresh or faux hydrangeas or other flowers that align with your color pallet.
Step: 8
Display with cake accessories on a table or even a cake plate or cake pedestal.


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Posted on 2/22/2013
Janet English
The Appalachian District Health Department is currently accepting applications for an Urban Community Transformation Grant (CTG) Project Coordinator.
This position is based in the Forsyth County Health Department but the work will demand travel across counties within the region (Appalachian District, Wilkes, Surry, Stokes, Forsyth, Davie, Davidson, and Yadkin). Work priorities will be focused in Region 3 urban counties: Davie, Forsyth, Stokes, and Yadkin.
For more information and to apply go to http://www.apphealth.com/career-opportunities/>.
Scroll down to Current Job Opportunities and click on Human Services Planner/Evaluator II under Forsyth County - Winston-Salem, NC
799 North Highland Avenue
Winston-Salem, NC 27102
(336) 703-3100
(336) 748-3292
Communicable Diseases
(336) 748-3644
Medical Records Information
(336) 727-8135
The mission of the Forsyth County Department of Public Health is to advance policies
and practices that promote equality in health, prevent disease, & protect the environment.
Adopted by the Board of Health 1/7/09.
Copyright © 2014 Forsyth County | Contact the Webmaster | Site Map


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The DCX400 DECT 6.0 cordless accessory handset is compatible with the Uniden DECT4000 cordless phone series and features 2-Line functionality. This accessory handset provides the clearest voice reception available and can easily be used with Wireless Home Networking (WLAN) systems without negative impact. This phone offers state-of-the-art technology that provides brilliant sound & maximum voice security without interference from other wireless devices. Expandable to 10 handsets.Compatible with the DECT4066, DECT4086, DECT4096 cordless phone models.
This Accessory Handset Is Compatible With the Following Series: D2280
The DCX350 DECT 6.0 cordless accessory handset is compatible with the Uniden D3500 cordless phone series and features CELLLiNK�, connecting up to 4 cell phones using Bluetooth�. Transfer 6,000 phonebook names & numbers from up to 4 different cell phones (1,500 per cell phone). Works even without landline service - as an extension for Bluetooth� enabled cell phones. This accessory handset also features Call Blocking, Silent Mode (Ability to turn all handset ringers on or off at a touch of one button) and ECO Mode for longer battery life. Expandable to 12 handsets.Compatible with the D3580-2, D3580-3, D3588, D3588-2, & D3588-3 DECT 6.0 cordless phone models.
Copyright © 2014 Uniden. All Rights Reserved


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Cellulite is a dimpling of the skin that universally affects women, men, and children who sleep in beds made out of golf balls. Even out epidermises with this Groupon.
Choose from Three Options
- $26 for a pair of black HotPants (a $72 value)
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The classic shorts style of HotPants targets fat and cellulite on the hips and bottom with infrared technology. Made from thinner, lighter material, full-length flares target areas all the way from the buttocks down to calves. Specially designed for nonworkout wear, nude HotPants discreetly slip beneath work dresses and footie pajamas. Click here for some reviews from satisfied customers.
Shipping is $7.50 for locations within the contiguous United States; please allow 3–4 weeks for delivery.
This deal's value may fluctuate based on currency exchange rates.
Zaggora's founder Dessi was scrambling. She needed to lose a little weight before her wedding, but none of the weight loss products she used seem to move the needle. Eventually, she took matters into her own hands, inventing her own effective method for slimming down. Zaggora's multi-layer capris, tops, shorts, and blazers put the heat naturally emitted by the body during exercise to work burning more calories. By trapping and redirecting this thermal energy, Zaggora wearers can burn up to 11% more calories than they would when garbed in traditional workout clothes, and 50% more calories than they would while napping in a sweatband.
Zaggora's flagship product—the hip-hugging HotPants—naturally and efficiently amp up weight-loss regimens by targeting fat deposits with infrared rays. Made from a comfortable bioceramic material, the shorts' Celu-Lite technology smoothes thighs and other dimple-prone areas by warming body tissues and promoting lymphatic drainage. This process dramatically boosts energy expenditure before and after exercise, and even aids in eliminating the toxins responsible for cellulite.


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Hugo Bosca, A young Italian immigrant and leather craftsman, founded a tradition of crafting exquisite leather goods in 1911 when he made his first Bosca purse. Three generations later, our family continues to live and work with Hugo's vision in mind. Renowned for originality and quality, our wide range of luxury goods introduce the heart and soul of Italy to an American aesthetic – blending style, functionality, and elegance. Much more than just accessories, Bosca is a way of life.
We are introducing a new Bosca product line, distinctively named the CUCITO collection. Correctly pronounced coo-chi-toe, the word derives from the Italian verb cuciare – meaning, "to stitch." … MORE


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Compaq Gateway CrystalScan 1024NI Free Driver Download
Displays, Display, Monitor
See details of driver package which includes support for this device.
Device Name
Gateway CrystalScan 1024NI
Supported Operating Systems
Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 98SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 2003, Windows Vista
Uploader Notes
This is the display adapter for the Presario 1275 laptop. It may work for other 1200 series.
Uploaded By
Brian (DG Member) on 7/20/2000
Driver Package
352064.zip (987.9 KB)
Hardware Ids Supported
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Reviews Summary
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Features such as waterfall seats, high-density foam padding and under-seat supports ensure not only maximum comfort but maximum stability as well. With stain treatment, extended warranties and a wide range of upholstery colors and frame finishes, Hertz Furniture's banquet seating provides the best in both durability and design.
Formal events such as wedding receptions and yearly galas require furniture that suits the occasion. Churches and non-profit organizations which host formal events on a regular basis, should own some banquet furniture so they don't have to waste funds renting. Getting the right tables and chairs to and from the desired location on time can be quite complicated. Having the furniture on site will save money in the long run and eliminate the hassle and worry.
Banquet chairs are the ideal seating option for a social hall. While there are other temporary seating options available, none are as elegant. With padded seats and backs and elegant designs, they offer the stability and strength of high-quality furniture with the versatility of portable pieces.
Stacking chairs are always convenient to have around. They are designed to be piled high, saving space in storage and facilitating easy transport. Stack bumpers on their legs prevent them from getting scratched, so they will stay in great shape through many holiday parties and anniversary celebrations.
When choosing stackable chairs for a specific space, it is a good idea to coordinate the upholstery with wallpaper or paint colors. If the room that the chairs will be used in has elaborate decorations, a simpler chair pattern might be better. Alternatively, a very plain room might benefit from chairs with a more lively and colorful design.
In addition to the color and pattern of the chair upholstery, there are also different material options. For a less formal setting in which chairs will be used often, vinyl is a great choice. Vinyl is highly durable and very easy to clean. Fabric has a more elegant appearance and is available in a huge selection of styles. We have upholstery fabrics that will fit a wide range of budgets and rooms.
Another important component of stack chairs is the frame. Frame material determines the weight capacity and strength of the chair. While chairs with less durable frames might seem cheaper in the short term considerations, stronger chairs will last longer and ultimately be worth the extra investment. Frames are available in a selection of finish colors so you can create the perfect combination of upholstery and frames.
The shape of the top can be quite a distinguishing feature on a banquet chair. We have models with dome tops and oval backs as well as the classic rectangular back. Rounded tops have a softer, more stately appeal that can help make a space look more classy.
Appearance isn't everything, though it is quite important. The distinct padded backs and seats of banquet chairs make them suitable for all-night events. Watching people squirm during a speech or toast is never fun. When all party guests have a supportive seat, they will be able to pay attention longer and appreciate the speeches and dedications that many people have spent time preparing. Cushion thickness determines how comfortable your guests will remain throughout the evening, so it should definitely be a consideration when selecting stacking chairs.
At Hertz Furniture, we know how important it is to find the right banquet chairs for your social hall. Our great selection of stacking chairs includes models that will suit a range of budgets, styles and preferences. If you need help determining the ideal seating for any space, contact the Hertz Design Center for free project-planning advice.
- Refined By
Oval Back Fabric Stacking Chair, Painted Frame
Dome Top Custom Stacking Chair- Chrome Frame
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Premium Fabric Stacking Chair
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Dome Top Custom Vinyl Stacking Chair
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Basic Custom Stacking Chair, Gr 2
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Dome Top Custom Stacking Chair - Chrome, Gr 2
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Dome Top Custom Stacking Chair
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Premium Vinyl Stacking Chair
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Dome Top Custom Vinyl Stacking Chair, Chrome
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Basic Custom Stacking Chair - Chrome Frame
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Dome Top Custom Stacking Chair, Gr 2
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Basic Custom Stacking Chair - Chrome Frame, Gr 2
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Oval Back Fabric Stacking Chair, Chrome Frame
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Basic Custom Vinyl Stacking Chair - Chrome Frame
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Basic Custom Vinyl Stacking Chair
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Basic Custom Fabric Stacking Chair
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When you buy from Hertz Furniture, you don't need to compromise on ideals or preferences. You get great warranties, quality and designs all with the additional benefits American made products. With everything from office desks to school chairs conveniently organized on this one Made in USA page, you can definitely afford to buy American.
There are lots of reasons to look for school furniture that is made in the USA. If we want to teach our students to be patriotic, we need to demonstrate our own patriotism in the classroom. By furnishing a learning space with American made school desks, student chairs and bookcases, we send a message to children that we are proud of our country and our home-grown goods. They will understand that there are many reasons to be proud to be an American.
When you go shopping for furniture made in the USA, make sure to really check the label before purchasing anything. While some companies might claim that they are only using American labor, it is possible that certain steps in the assembly process are happening overseas, or that international parts are being used with the assembly process in America. It is important to demonstrate to manufacturers, the American public and the world that it does make a difference to consumers when they have furniture made in America.
There are tons of benefits to purchasing made in USA furniture. First of all, America has very strict standards regarding pollution in product production. When you buy American, you help keep a cleaner environment for the future of our children. When you purchase products without looking for the made in USA label, you don't know what they might contain or what kinds of conditions they were made under. Products from overseas might have been made under substandard working conditions, in factories which are causing tons of air pollution or using child labor.
American labor standards and worker conditions ensure that your office furniture is only produced under acceptable conditions. Made in the USA products have been manufactured through processes which take into account the safety of the workers, the quality of the products and the impact on the environment. When you buy American, you celebrate our country's independence and promote a self-sufficient economy.
When you buy domestically-produced furniture, you can feel good about your purchase. It's great to know that it was made under particular conditions, in compliance with strict standards. You also know who made it. The production of American made furniture creates jobs for our country's citizens. It is always important to support the American labor force, and buying furniture made in the USA is a mutually-beneficial way to do so.
At Hertz Furniture, we know what is important to the American consumer. With our wide array of American made furniture, you can be patriotic and still rely on the quality, style and reliability you have come to expect from Hertz Furniture. So next time you are looking for furniture made in the USA, you can simply come to this page to buy American. Need help choosing which great models will fit best in your space? The experts in the Hertz Design Center will be happy to help with free project-planning advice.


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Rafael Lozano-Hemmer's "Levels of Nothingness" at the Guggenheim
When artist and curator Hilla Rebay hung Vasily Kandinsky's paintings at the Museum of Non-Objective Painting, which she convinced her lover Solomon R. Guggenheim to open in the late 1920s, she created a sensual environment for them with colored walls, faint music, and perfumed air. It was an approximate construction of an inner, spiritual harmony unencumbered by reminders of nature, in keeping with the ideas of Kandinsky's influential tract "Concerning the Spiritual in Art." While multimedia updates of art from an older period risk becoming mere bells and whistles on a body of work that stands on its own merits, Kandinsky's intense interest in synaesthesia—and his exhibition history with Guggenheim's collection—make it seem like he might be sympathetic to opportunities for multiple sensory stimulation afforded by today's data processing technologies. Perhaps that's why Works & Process at the Guggenheim Museum commissioned an immersive light-and-sound piece from Rafael Lozano-Hemmer to mark the opening of the museum's major Kandinsky retrospective, the first for the artist in more than twenty years. Levels of Nothingness, which Lozano-Hemmer developed in collaboration with philosopher Brian Massumi, takes its inspiration from Kandinsky's 1912 essay "Yellow Sound." The installation generates visuals from phonetic data produced by reading philosophical texts by Kandinsky and others. (At the performance, Isabella Rosselini will kick off the readings, and audience members will be encouraged to continue). Rather than translating one kind of information into another to spell out a neatly servable metaphor—as Lozano-Hemmer did, for example, with Pulse Park, which presented Madison Square Park as a living organism by animating it with lights activated by the heart rates of passers-by—Levels of Nothingness promises to be more meditative and fuzzy, suggesting the connection between thought and ...
Speaking in Third Person
MIT Press recently published Third Person, an essay collection that follows First Person and Second Person in a series exploring how new media has changed the roles of author and audience. Third Person declares its subject to be "vast narratives," which editors Pat Harrigan and Noah Wardrip-Fruin define as cultural products that extend beyond the physical and temporal parameters usually associated with their medium. While most television detective shows devote one episode to one investigation, The Wire, for example, can stretch a case out over a season, and the continuity of characters and settings puts demands on a viewer's memory that other shows rarely make. If the Harry Potter series of books is considered the authoritative source of that fictional world even after the release of the films, Lucasfilm delegates storytelling duties for Star Wars among books, movies, and animated series, and each addition extends the fictional universe in new directions in time and space. Vast narratives can also be generative frameworks that allow for many reconfigurations of the characters and settings over several instantiations, as in computer role-playing games and their pencil-and-paper counterparts like Dungeons & Dragons.
Camera Ready
"You have to love dancing to stick to it. It gives you nothing back, no manuscripts to store away, no paintings to hang in museums, no poems to be printed and sold, nothing but that fleeting moment when you feel alive." Those are the words of Merce Cunningham, whose death this summer—a month after the passing of Pina Bausch—provoked a wave of public musing on the difficulties of dance's notation and preservation, as critics expressed a bleak resignation about the medium's supposed transience. So it's a fortunate coincidence that the Institute of Contemporary Art in Philadelphia is starting the new season with an exhibition that demonstrates what dance has "given back" to photography, film, and video. "Dance with Camera" encompasses fifty years of art—from classics like Eleanor Antin, Bruce Nauman, and Mike Kelley to emerging artists—and all the works are rooted in choreography and modernist approaches to movement. Several of the artists make work for both theaters and galleries, and their use of the camera builds on live performance rather than serving as a record of it. Choreographer Kelly Nipper considers motion's relation to stillness by bringing dancers to her photography studio to isolate moments, while Flora Wiegmann adapts dance phrases to places outside the theater and the camera's lens. Elad Lassry's 16mm films exploit the metaphoric potential of the dancer's disciplined severity, her unity of mind and body. These artists make their camera an active agent in the work, rather than a documentary device. Their concern isn't extending a dance's duration in memory, but expanding the capabilities of the camera through the associative and compositional possibilities of dance. The exhibition opens Friday and runs through ...
Interview with Grace Kook Anderson
Through October 4, the Laguna Art Museum in Laguna Beach is presenting "WoW: Emergent Media Phenomenon", an exhibition that considers the fantasy environment of the massively multiplayer online role-playing game World of Warcraft and its broader cultural impact. It includes works by gaming-conscious artists like Tale of Tales and Radical Software Group as well as pieces produced by staff at the company that develops WoW, Blizzard Entertainment. Curator Grace Kook Anderson answered a few questions about the show.
What aspects of World of Warcraft as an emergent media phenomenon do you find most interesting as a curator?
WoW has been a rich subject. What I find compelling in this game is that the narrative lineage passing through J.R.R. Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons sets the framework of the game, but the players add that extra narrative layer. Another aspect that is remarkable is the democratic nature of cultural production that a game like WoW stimulates, such as the enormous volume of fan art and machinima to artists working in different media. And as an MMORPG, WoW is also a network and a community for so many people. It is amazing how game culture and reality interact.
Could you discuss a few of the artworks you selected and how they expand on these aspects of gaming in general and massively multiplayer gaming in particular?
In the case of quite a few of the artists, WoW imagery or content is used to point to greater issues, such as questioning the idea of networking and community or looking at the implications of globalization and the threat of terrorism. Aram Bartholl led a workshop and performance takes an aspect from the ...!--more-->
Looking At "Looking At Music: Side 2&"
A year ago the Museum of Modern Art's media galleries hosted "Looking at Music," an exhibition of process-based work from the 1960s and 1970s that included music videos by pop icons like David Bowie and The Beatles (as well as cult favorites Captain Beefheart and Devo) amid works by Nam June Paik, Joan Jonas, and other avant-garde heroes. Caitlin Jones expanded on the inclusions and their mutual connections in a review on Rhizome; I also wrote about how it traced two paths in process art, which were exemplified by the music of John Cage and Steve Reich. Whatever a viewer brought to the show, it's safe to say that everyone felt a thrill from the incongruity of watching Bowie's Space Oddity in MoMA's white boxes. The approach helped tear Cage, Paik, and their cohorts out of the textbook, and demonstrated that while ideas germinated in strongholds of the creative intellect like Darmstadt or E.A.T.'s "9 Evenings: Theatre & Engineering," art did not exist in a vacuum. With "Looking at Music," curator Barbara London set an agenda continued in an essay published in the March 2009 issue of Artforum, making a case for the study of music video in terms of process art in the late twentieth century.
Now "Looking at Music: Side 2," on view through November 30, offers the flip side as it takes the exploration of the topic into the late 1970s and early '80s. If art-world favorites set the tone in last year's exhibition, "Side 2" is dominated by album covers and concert posters. A sprawling mural of work by rock'n'roll photographer Bob Gruen overlooks a monitor showing a grainy video ...


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Ben Crawshaw's book about cruising the Mediterranean in a craft made using free boat plans
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Yacht Linotte rescued from rocks by oar
[ad#intheboatshed-post] This gut-wrenching but finally satisfactory set of photos records the day Francois Vivier-designed Stir Ven pocket cruiser Linotte was rescued from rocks by the rowing crew of what looks like a pilot gig. I shouldn't think that's happened too … Continue reading
Posted in Boat plans and books of plans, Boatbuilders and restorers, Culture: songs, stories, photography and art, Events, Locations, Modern boatbuilding, Racing rowing and paddling, Rowing boat, Sailing cruisers, Small boats, Suppliers, Traditional clinker, Uncategorized, wooden boat, Working boats Tagged Francois Vivier, Linotte, pilot gig, pocket cruiser, rocks, Rowing boat, small yacht, Stir Ven 5 Comments


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All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Forum devoted to track & field items of an historical nature.
23 posts • Page 1 of 1
All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Britain has developed some great 800 and up (say 10k) runners. Is it obvious that they dominate US in those events or is there room for some debate? Given the complexity of comparisons across the board - a reasonable or hands down deal?
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Well, there are a lot of ways of looking at this . . .
The easiest to look up is national scoring in T&FN's World Rankings (although that only compares from 1947 to present). The Yanks are ahead in the 800, 1500, and steeple; the Brits are ahead in the 5k, 10k, and marathon. If you add them all up the US barely comes out ahead.
(That's men only; consider the women and it's neck-and-neck in every event except the marathon, where our women are by far the best nation in the world in national scoring.)
But that's only one way of looking at it. You can look at Olympic gold medals, Olympic medals, number of superstars, world records, all kinds of things. They have us totally whipped at the 5k and 10k, though.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
so in a fantasy (right?) "distance carnival", putting everyone in the same meet - all eras, all things factored. wha happens - outcome? btw for what its worth I've mulled this over for quite a few years - intrigue i spose (i think we all do it from time to time?) - and my better than average, but not expert, knowledge has resulted in ... posting this here. gota bite the bullet and render a verdict/decision. of course 'arguments' accepted, not excepted.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
How does the US fare against GB on the all time 800/1500 lists? Probably not all that well, even with our much bigger population, I'd suspect. I would think the 1500 we'd be buried all time.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Well, that's something we can look up.
Top ten performers, from T&FN's lists:
1:41.11 ...... Wilson Kipketer (Den) 97
1:41.73 ............... Seb Coe (GB) 81
1:41.77 ......... Joaquim Cruz (Bra) 84
1:42.28 ......... Sammy Koskei (Ken) 84
1:42.34 ....... Wilfred Bungei (Ken) 02
1:42.47 ... Yuriy Borzakovskiy (Rus) 01
1:42.55 ......... André Bucher (Swi) 01
1:42.58 ........ Vebjørn Rodal (Nor) 96
1:42.60 ........... Johnny Gray (US) 85
1:42.62 ...... Patrick Ndururi (Ken) 97
3:26.00 ... Hicham El Guerrouj (Mor) 98
3:26.34 ........ Bernard Lagat (Ken) 01
3:27.37 ... Noureddine Morceli (Alg) 95
3:28.12 ........... Noah Ngeny (Ken) 00
3:28.95 ......... Fermín Cacho (Spa) 97
3:29.18 .... Vénuste Niyongabo (Bur) 97
3:29.29 ..... William Chirchir (Ken) 01
3:29.46 .......... Saïd Aouita (Mor) 85
................ Daniel Komen (Ken) 97
3:29.67 ............ Steve Cram (GB) 85
We're behind, but neither nation can claim a particularly strong presence.
Really deep all-time performance lists are available at
and at
Have fun comparing!
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
no no no!, I guess I'm not necessarily (well actually I'm not) thinking all time lists - but more all time competitors i.e., whitfield, wottle, wohlulter, cunningham, ryun, scott, liquori(?), mills(?), schul(?), pre, bedford, pirie, moorcroft, etc.
take everyone (you choose) from every era (20s, 30s, (before) til today, have a meet of just 800, 1500(or mile - I like the mile), 5k and 10k - and come up with results. Times, at least from the discussions I've read, are not necessarily the sole factor. Everyone at their peak.
not just fastest times ...
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
OK! I'm sure the placings I come up with will stir a lot of argument, since they are totally subjective.
The USA-GB Men's Distance-only Time Machine Dual meet
1)Coe, GB
2)Woodruff, USA
3)Lowe, GB
1)Ryun, USA
2)Ovett, GB
3)Coe, GB
1)Stewart, GB
2)Schul, USA
3)Pirie or Moorcroft, GB
1)Foster, GB
2)Mills, USA
3)Bedford, GB
You didn't mention steeplechase , but if you want it . . .
1)Marsh, USA
2)Ashenfelter, USA
3)Brasher, GB
Scoring 5-3-1, the Brits take us 22 to 14 (we close to 23-22 if you include the steeple). I really think the 2nd places I gave to Mills and Schul were gifts, as they were based on only one season (and pretty much only one race).
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Mal Whitfield would out-kick Woodruff or Lowe for 2nd place.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Whitfield might very well have beaten Woodruff. But not by out-kicking him.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
I thought this would come up. Honestly, the pick for Coe at #1 is harder to defend in my mind than Woodruff over Whitfield.
If you're talking career accomplishments, then Whitfield has much more than Woodruff. BUT since the statement was "everyone at their peak", you must realize this: Woodruff ran 1:47.0 indoors in 1940, while Whitfield's career PR was 1:48.0 eight years later. Woodruff also ran an "adjusted" 1:48.0 in 1937 (see http://trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/discus ... thread=324). If we use our imaginary time machine, I'd put the house on Woodruff.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Hey, before anyone corrects me, Whitfield's PR was actually 1:47.9 in 1953, and his 1:48.0 was in 1952. Anyway, Whitfield never came even reasonably close to the WR, while Woodruff may have been cheated out of one, and his indoor mark was only 0.4 off of the outdoor record.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
For the 6mile/10K, remember that Frank Shorter beat Bedford in the 1972 Olympics.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Let's talk Whitfiled again:
We are talking about winning here.... he knew how to do that ! ( 2 OG gold proves it. )
Plus he was FAST! Was a world-ranked 400 runner or close to it. Ran on 1600 relay team in both 48 and 52 OG's I think, for a gold and a silver. And that 52 team only lost a 3:04.0 WR because Jamaica was a tenth faster.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
My files don't show Woodruff ever being beaten in the 800 meters after he entered college (although I'd be happy if someone corrected me, because then I'd know more). He won the Olympic 800 before he was even eligible for NCAA competition.
Woodruff was also fast in the 400, with a PR of 46.7 at a time when the WR was 46.1.
It's an iffy choice, but the data I went from told me Woodruff.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
jsquire, I bow to your obvious historical expertise and knowledge. Looks like Woodruff was a super one lapper too.
But can't you at least give Whitfield 3rd place ??!!
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
yep yep - this is what i'm talkin bout -
Food for thought re: Mills and Schul: both were WR holders; Mills ('tie' with Lindgren in SD)the yr after the miracle and Schul the yr of his 64 win. Mills was not even on the map for Oly medals while Schul was the favorite as I recall.
Never put the pencil to it, but (cringe) always felt like GB was somewhat ahead. Thought about steeple after I originally posted - and my .02 is it belongs.
And I hope this does stimulate some argument. My brief list of names seems just that - brief. More guns out there? - runners or progosticators?
- is it me or is Whitfield kinda lost to the all but died in wool T&F crowd?
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Schul set AR at 13:38.0 before Tokyo, but WR was Kuts's 13:35.0 from '57. Clarke broke that w/ a 13:34.7 in January of '65.
Yes. Schul was the favorite. T&FN's international panel of experts went for him unanimously in the Olympic Preview issue.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
2)Woodruff, USA
3)Lowe, GB
2)Ovett, GB
3)Coe, GB<
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Sorry about that last one--hit "send" before replying. That won't do. Let's try again.
2)Woodruff, USA
2)Ovett, GB
There's some funny reasoning here. Let's recall that Coe never won an OG Gold at 800m. Ovett did (beating Coe in 1980). In the 1500m, on the other hand, Coe won 2 OG golds and Ovett just one bronze. You have to rate Coe over Ovett at 1500. I'm not sure where I'd rate Coe in the 800, but he lost too many big ones to be rated #1 in that event, even if you confine the universe to US and UK runners.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
More Whitfield stuff. The maddening thing about him is that he almost never ran for time in the 800 but at the end of '53 he still had 9 of the best 16 times of all times in the 800/880. He was unbeatable from 1948 to 1954 except '51 when he was in the Korean war. He mastered any tactic and won from the front and from the back. He was a superior tactician to Woodruff and he was a better 400m runner. He was more than worldclass in the 400. He was number 1 in the world in '49 and '53. He ran 45.9 when Rhoden had the w-rec at 45.8. He was sometimes better than the Jamaicans.
Unlike Woodruff he beat anybody who was anything in the 800 during those years. (Woodruff never ran in Europe after '36 and thus never ran against Harbig when he was at his peak.) Whitfield lost only 2 early-season races during his career. Lastly, he was an incredible doubler. In '53 he set a world-rec 2.20.8 in the 1000m than came back within the hour and ran U.S. record 440 in 46.2. Whitfield and Woodruff, incidentally, had identical 4.12 mile bests. And yes he had 10.7 100m speed. So count me in the Whitfield camp. In the Britain/U.S. thing the Brits had a string of overlooked 800/1500 guys in the 50s : Brian Hewson, Derek Johnson, Mike Farrel and Mike Rawson. In earlier days they had Wooderson who was world class and more from 800 to 5000. He has surely been overlooked by all of us on the various threads.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Hey, you guys said "peak", not "career". In total career I'd go this way:
1)Ryun or Coe, depending on the importance you place on the OG
2) and 3) Take your pick of Ryun, Cram, Coe, and Ovett
Whitfield had a long and consistent career. But statements like "he never ran for time" sound like excuses for not running fast -- go look at the Keino/Ryun thread, and think about saying "he never ran for time".
Not only did Whitfield never even remotely approach the WR, he barely broke Woodruff's unnofficial (but statistically valid) AR of 1:48.0. One year after he retired, Tom Courtmey took the AR all the way down to 1:46.8 (and Lonnie Spurrier's 1:47.5y that year was intrinsically equal to Courtney's mark). That same year, 1955, Whitfield's PR wouldn't have ranked among the world's top ten. Whitfield's marks were not stunning by pre-WWII standards, and were quite ordinary soon after he left the top.
That said, marks are the least important criteria for evaluating a career. However, others have made clear to me marks are quite important when evaluating someone's peak performance. My evaluation is that Coe had a greater peak than any US or British half-miler, but it was for only one season (1981).
Now if we include the whole Commonwealth, then things get really interesting.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
Very informative and interesting stuff for me.
Somewhere else (either here or another site) I mentioned (outside of our US v Britain guideline/criteria) that a T&F staffer - (I think one of the Nelsons) wrote an article on an all time epic 'dream mile' with fairly detailed commentary on the race, how it unfolded, and a dramatic finish.
As I recall this fantasy piece was written in late 60s (?). And I'm thinkin it was in T&FN. It was quite entertaining and (Per) ... - guess who the winner was? Was a surprise to me.
Perhaps someone here recalls, although it would be quite dated now.
Sorry to depart from original.
Re: All time distance: USA v Great Britain
I remember seeing this while perusing back issues at my university's library. Will dig it up within 24 hours, if no one else beats me to it.
I'd have to say that at least Morceli and El Guerrouj would be added to the field. If we put in a rabbit (and who better than Tom Byers?), I'd say Morceli wins. No rabbit, that's hard to pick.
23 posts • Page 1 of 1
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"The card turned out great! The yellow color was a little more green than I had expected and the print was very slightly grainy, but otherwise loved it!"
"I loved the design of these cards and the color options were perfect! I wanted something classy, slightly (but not overly) trendy, and quirky. I love how they came out. The thickness and texture of the paper was perfect and the printing quality was spot on."
"I am so happy with my baby girl announcement card it came out so beautiful. i used the Pearl white simmer (awesome paper) and the rounded trim (nice detail). The costumer service is excellent. I used the designer review and they called me (which i was not expecting) to make sure i was going to received the designer preview. I was also surprised with the shipment, it came so fast! You have a very happy happy happy costumer."
"Thankyou for such beautiful Birth Announcement cards. The design and quality exceeded our expectations. We will definately be ordering the Christening invites through your company. Thankyou again!!"