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Citizens Bank's SCAM Operation with Overdraft Fees
Posted by Nofearman on 05/22/2009
PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND -- On Monday evening May 18, 2009, while out of town, I knew I had to get to a computer to add funds to my account as I had several small debits coming in. I knew I had enough to cover 12 out of the 13 incoming debits. I unfortunately never got to a computer to transfer funds. BUT, what I did NOT realize until Tuesday morning is that Citizens "practice" of debiting accounts is NOT, as I thought the smaller debits all paid first, or even as they are posted, BUT "intentionally" from LARGEST debit to smallest. Now, when I called Citizens I was given the canned response that Citizens does this to "help the customer pay for their most important payments first". WOW! Thanks Citizens for knowing so much about ME and what is important to ME! What a nice company, looking out for their customers… And, YOUR WELCOME for the SEVEN overdrafts which you just profited over $270 on.
And get this, on May 19, 2009 my last 8 debits were all under 10$ but of course didn't clear because Citizens overdraft system was sure to deplete the funds with all the higher debits FIRST. Resulting in SEVEN $39 overdrafts for debits under $10
Now, such a comment from Citizens is of course nonsense and we all know WHY Citizens has "designed" their overdraft system to post HIGH to LOW. At least while inquiring at Bank of America about they overdraft policy they were honest enough to admit the "real agenda" of banks employing this sleazy tactics was to increase their bottom line with overdraft profits.
And, I am sure it has added a nice revenues increase to your bottom line. But, I must say it is quite shameful that this "hidden tactic" is being employed against Citizens customers. I can assure you if most people were asked about this they would have no idea HOW the overdrafts policy works AGAINST Citizens customers. Unless, they get to read about such a scandalous experience it is pretty much a hidden policy. I am sure it must be buried in the checking account terms and condition in the 3pt font, somewhere on page 5.
And, to top it off before I knew what happened I charged $6.80 for Chinese food, but with Citizens $273 overdraft charges I was as a result $208 negative (because they charged my account and THEY made my account negative), they charged me ANOTHER $39 overdraft fee. Which would have cleared had they not charged my account $273.
The scary issue here is probably 90% of Citizen Bank customers (and other Bank's customers) are unaware of the details of these seedy overdraft tactics.
I may have to bite the bullet and lose over $300, while I take time to move all my personal business accounts to a more reputable, respectable bank. But as Congress is just now debating the unethical fees being charged by credit card companies, I will do my part to make sure they are aware of, and hopefully also address these unethical "overdraft" practices. Is it illegal? Surprisingly no. Is it disgraceful, immoral, and shameful? Unquestionably!
The days of personal relationships with your banker are OVER. It's just a computer program ready and waiting to suck your account dry with the slightest opportunity.
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Posted by Anonymous on 2009-05-22:
This is nothing new. Most banks have been using creative posting technique for years. There is probably a section in your account terms and conditions which states that they can process your transactions in any order they chose. Perhaps you should read it. You'd be surprised at what else you have agreed to let them do.
You made an incorrect assumption when you knowingly overdrew your account and got caught.
Posted by madconsumer on 2009-05-22:
you gambled and lost.
Posted by msnanny on 2009-05-22:
This same thing will happen everywhere you bank. The only way to prevent it is to not spend more than you have.
Posted by yoke on 2009-05-22:
You admitted you did not have enough to cover all the debits and did not get to a computer to put the funds in that were needed. How is that the banks fault?
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-05-22:
Dump the banks. ALL of the "big boys" reorder transactions for the sole purpose of maximizing fees. Find a credit union. Most process transactions in the order they are received. At least when you do overdraft it is done in a fair manner.
At my credit union they don't even apply an overdraft fee if the overdraft is less than $5.00. Now that is customer appreciation.
Posted by BokiBean on 2009-05-22:
That's nice chuck!! My credit union also doesn't stack withdrawals largest to smallest.
nofearman, come over to the credit union side! They're not in it to pick their customer's pockets..
Posted by Suusan B. on 2009-05-22:
You knew you had overdrawn your account so you gambled and lost. And you will find you have the same problem no matter where you move your money unless you have overdraft protection in place. No sympathy here . . . .
Posted by hopper14 on 2009-08-18:
I agree with the author...Citizens Bank is dedicated to lying and scamming the customer. Hopefully, people will stand up against this business and realize that the only people committing fraud are them! I can't tell you how many times I try to check my account and be the responsible consumer while Citizens decides not to "post" all activity. It's a poor website. Everyone that is saying "you gambled and lost" must be there employee, or have a lot of money in the bank. Yes, credit unions are not this harsh.
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Citizens Bank PA - illegal practices and customer ripoff scams
Posted by Jimmy Panousis on 08/03/2009
I worked for Citizens in PA for almost 2 years. Fran, the Bucks County Regional Manager, pushes OD fees EXACTLY as described in many posts.
We were forced to open checking accounts that had excessive overdraft fees and monthly charges in order to ripoff the customers. Here's how:
We had to open accounts, lying to the customers that the account has "no fees" and put specifically designed waivers on the accounts so that the customer doesn't realize the scam (the maximum waiver you could use was for 1 year...)
Then, when the waiver expires months later, the customers have their guard down and they don't obsess with every line on their statements, they get hit by monthly fees that will overdraw the account (as most people keep in their checking account only enough money to cover their checks - that's why it's called a CHECKING account). The overdraft fees will overdraw the account again and again and so will the checks you write believing that your account is still good....
I routinely had customers with hundreds of dollars in fees by the time they received their statement - we were specifically instructed to hit high school kids, college students and senior citizens.
Another trick we had to use is open a "Gold" checking account to senior citizens who would come in and ask for a savings account by using a high interest rate as a carot and not disclosing the fees (using the waivers as noted above). Problem is, that "Gold" checking account had a high-balance requirement and the poor people would be hit by unneccesary monthly fees a few months later...
And to add inslult to injury we even had telemarketing days and evenings when we were forced to make telemarketing calls (disguised as "service calls" so that the bank circumvents the do-not-call registry laws). Not only these were clearly marketing calls (as suggested by the program feeding us the leads!!!) but also we had to open a number of checking accounts over the phone (the daily and weekly targets were set by Fran again, the Regional Manager).
If only homeland security new how many checking accounts Citizens Bank routinely opens over the phone without proper identification or signatures... all the auditors have to do is go to any Bucks County branch towards the end of the day and ask for the signature cards of the checking accounts opened the SAME day to uncover the illegal practice (this way there is no time to mail the signature card and obtain backdated signatures....)
Stay away from Citizens Bank in PA! I quit several years ago and I am still haunted about the things we had to do...
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Posted by Soaring Consumer on 2009-08-03:
If things are as true as you say, contact the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency right away.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-08-03:
*rolls eyes*
Posted by Eloise on 2009-08-03:
So you are a former employee, huh?
Posted by BokiBean on 2009-08-03:
A lot of whistleblowers are former employees. It does sound like there is some inside information being imparted here.
Posted by PepperElf on 2009-08-04:
if you're overdrafting why are you still writing checks?
that's the problem with a lot (most) of these over-draft complaints.
People make no effort to keep a balanced check book. And when they overspend they blame the bank for the account being in overdraft.
it's sad but... if they took out a pen and paper and wrote down what they spend and what's in the account - including debit card and online usage - then... they would actually KNOW what's in the account and how much they can spend.
bank holds a check a little longer? No problem... you already wrote it down so you're taking that check into consideration.
the problem is people are lazy and don't want to do that.
therefore it's always the bank's fault.
Posted by yoke on 2009-08-04:
The people who do not know about the fee's are the ones who do not open up their statements and balance their checkbooks every month. If you do that you will see the fee's and you can question the bank the first month about the fee's. How can someone go months without knowing about the fee's?
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-08-04:
Wow, this isn't smart....
Fulbright Jaworski remember that name, you may need them.
Posted by Ponie on 2009-08-04:
'...most people keep in their checking account only enough money to cover their checks...' Wow, Jimmy! From where did you glean this profound fact? If people wrote checks (or used their debit cards) making sure they had 'enough money to cover' these transactions they wouldn't be subjected to these fees. I'm sorry they fired you.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-08-04:
Ponie, I'm not sorry. I'd hate to walk into a bank and have to deal with this one.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-08-04:
If you had to do so many crappy things, why'd you stay at that job for so long? You could have been looking for another one while still working for them. And, if you had to do all those horrible things, why'd you wait until now to say something?
You could have filed a report then.
Posted by Eloise on 2009-08-04:
I'd be glad to see you at my bank. I love my bank!
Posted by PepperElf on 2009-08-04:
ponie what's worse than that is that there are some people who actually act like this....
"How can I be overdrawn! I still have checks in my checkbook"
Posted by hopper14 on 2009-08-18:
Wait until it happens to popcorn, pepper and ponie.
Posted by Brian-Z on 2009-08-23:
I too worked for Citizens Bank, and although we were forced to do telemarketing and try to get accounts, we NEVER did these types of tactics. It sounds to me like it is this particular regional manager. I would make a call to the Alert Line about her, I know that you don't work there anymore, but if she is still there then think about all the people that still are there and have to suffer because of her deceptive practices.
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Kroger is worse than Juniper
Posted by DonH on 02/09/2007
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON -- I just opened a Juniper account and now find all the complaints here... scary.
But "RBS Credit Card Services" dba Kroger Personal Finances, Kroger Master Card, Fred Meyer Master Card, (and probably more) burned me worse than any of the reports I see here about Juniper.
In particular their brochure and application invited "Free Transfer From Other Credit Cards" and "No Interest for Nine Months." But it was/is all a crock. Not only did they levy multiple "transfer fees" against me as-of the very first DAY, they reneged on the "no interest" for the transferred balances AND on PURCHASES in THEIR OWN stores (Fred Meyer) PLUS have increased the RATE of interest every single month since I transferred from the "Higher" (12% card)to their "promised" "0% for 9 months." I got stuck for transfer fees plus have had interest raised every single month since, day one (September 2006). Interest of last statement was about 65%: "minimum finance charge"
I tried to report them to local Consumer Protection (State of Washington) but got nowhere. I did report them repeatedly to the BBB in the states they're registered (CT, RI), and yesterday suddenly MY Credit Report shows about a dozen alleged "delinquencies" (according to HSBC Master Card) -- But I get brushed-off by Experian etc every time I try to get a copy of that alleged "Credit Report" - In violation of several state and federal laws.
I paid "Kroger Personal Finances" off COMPLETELY in December 2006 --- but am still (February 2007) being "accessed interest on interest" (on the "0% advances") -- Although I was never late for a single payment since I got the card.
And Kroger Personal Finance is still sending me blank checks imprinted "0% interest" in the same envelopes as the +60% "interest on interest" billing statements.
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Citizens Bank loses my cash deposit for the third time
Posted by Elizabethnh on 09/22/2009
MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE -- I received a message from my landlord today stating that my rent check bounced. I have never bounced a check in my life. I immediately called Citizens Bank who claimed they had no record of a $170.00 cash deposit I made 3 days ago. I knew for sure that I had been there, deposited the money looked at the receipt and thrown it away the next day while cleaning out my pocketbook. After 2 hours of hearing several different people telling me that without the receipt there was nothing they could do, I dug every garbage bag from the last week out of the dumpster, threw on some rubber gloves and went searching. Found the receipt (amongst cornbeef and cabbage remains). Called the bank back gave all the information printed on the receipt at which time I was told that I would have to bring the receipt all the way down to the branch in order for them to do something for me. After nearly exploding on the telephone and telling the manager that I was not going anywhere as I was not the incompetent one, they finally agreed to give me my money and make a personal phone call to my landlord to apologize. True story and third time this exact scenario has happened (with the exception of the cornbeef).
Bottom line.........do not do business with these incompetent people. Its a big headache, a bunch of fees, and a whoooooole lot of bull-isht.
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Posted by saj80 on 2009-09-22:
Are you making these deposits directly or via an ATM? If using an ATM, please stop immediately and start making the deposit directly, person-to-person. There are thousands of stories about cash deposits getting "lost" via use of an ATM. Also, keep all receipts until your deposit posts to your account. I know this may not help you in this situation, but it should going forward.
Posted by JR in Orlando on 2009-09-22:
Scanners are dirt cheap. Since you have computer access, attach the scanner to it and copy every deposit statement into your computer. Only takes a minute, but then you have a receipt to call up if needed.
Personally, I would never make an ATM deposit for this reason. I have a deposit record book I got from the bank. When I write a deposit out, it makes a copy below it. I tear out the deposit slip, and personally deposit the money and checks. Then after scanning, I come back and staple the deposit receipt onto the back of the deposit record book page that is a copy of that deposit. Worked for years.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-22:
There's a reason they can't do things over the phone. Verification purposes and all that mess. There's too much fraud going on out there and identity theft.
If you've made the deposit through the ATM, the people at that branch aren't incompetant either. Most banks don't service their own ATM's.
Instead of throwing fit, why couldn't you just have simply done what they asked?
Posted by goduke on 2009-09-22:
I use citizens. It's pretty simple to check the deposit online -- it shows up immediately after you go to the bank or ATM (I've done both). If it's not there, you have an issue. I keep the receipt for a few days afterwards just in case a question arises. No problems at all.
Posted by Slimjim on 2009-09-22:
That's pretty unusual and extremely unsatisfactory to have not registered your deposits 3 times now.
I'm hoping you will stop throwing out the receipt until you are sure the deposit is in the account. Frankly, I think I would have hung on to them longer after the first incident.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-22:
With that rude attitude I would have hung up on you. There is a reason they need to see your receipt. How about you tell me your name so I can call the bank and raise a fuss like you did and demand all the money from MY (your) account be transferred to mine at BOA. Since throwing a tantrum causes them to override their privacy policies it should be fairly easy to clean you out.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-22:
My point exactly, Lady.
Posted by CrystalSword on 2009-09-23:
And I don't throw out ANY bank receipts, why?...this very reason!!
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-23:
It sort of defeats the purpose of getting a receipt if you throw it out before you get your statement. What are you checking it against?
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Imposing Excessive Overdraft Fees
Posted by Dab1960 on 06/05/2009
BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS -- It's beyond me how they continually get away with these practices of re-shuffling balances and postings to justify charging more fees.
Just recently they have done again. On June 1st, my balance was a positive actual and a positive available. I then proceed to make an ATM withdrawal, and even after my balances were still reflected as positive.
The next day, after 3 transactions, and mind you they were all posted and still reflected positive balances....they charge me $117, for what they are saying is (3) negative transactions, because my card had been run through for authorization, which in turn caused the last three transactions to be negative available balances. Then 24 hours later, the post the transaction from the previous days authorization and charge me another $39. When I called to talk to customer service, they gave me an explanation that still has my head spinning. They said that on June 1st when the card was run through for authorization, the pull that amount of money out and hold it for that pending transaction, which in turn, cause those other (3) transactions to be negative, therefore assessing me $117 for the fees.....but yet, 24 hours later, they post the transaction that they said they pulled the money for previously, and charged another $39.....but if they pulled the money previously....and it was available at that time, why am I being charged?
They contradicted themselves when I called to inquire and they won't refund me any fees, they say it's bank policy and I am the one that should keep better track of my account. It's a rip-off and then they structure the transactions to justify it.
Steer clear of this bank.....they will rip you off every chance they get, and even when you think you've got it figured in, they will manipulate the transactions and justify they're ripping you off.
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Posted by kisa64 on 2009-06-05:
Here's what I do; I keep track of my transactions in a check register, so I know my actual balance at all times. I also do not use my debit card anywhere where a hold may be placed in addition to the purchase amount (gas stations, restaurants, hotels). I used to overdraw my account all the time when I didn't keep a check register, it has now been 18 months since I started doing this and not one overdraft since then. Just letting you know what my experience has been and what has worked for me. Hope this helps!
Posted by yoke on 2009-06-05:
kisa, isn't amazing what happens when you use a check register and not rely on the online banking amount. I use a check register also and have not had an overdraft in years. Even my 16 year old has yet to get a NSF. He also uses a check register.
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-06-05:
kisa and yoke your comments show you have no idea what the poster is complaining about. Read, understand, THEN comment.
His complaint is about being charged two NSF's for the same transaction and the reordering to increase the number fees.
Let's hear your ETHICAL justification for the bank charging two NSF's for a single transaction?
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
Right on Chuck!
Posted by BokiBean on 2009-06-05:
Well said, chuck.
Posted by kisa64 on 2009-06-05:
Sounds like a hold was put on his account when the purchase was made and then the actual purchase was put through later when the merchant submitted it, so I suppose that can cause NSF fees twice for the same transaction! Sorry, but my advice still stands, a check register has solved my problem of continous overdrafting (believe me I have lived thru the overdraft nightmare). Just trying to be helpful, sorry that doesn't meet with your standards.
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-06-05:
Someone please give me a GOOD reason why a bank should charge an NSF fee BEFORE actually posting a transaction. THERE IS NONE!
NSF fees should NOT be charged on PENDING transactions.
Posted by kisa64 on 2009-06-05:
Also, I meant to add that I am in no way defending or trying to justify what banks are doing; I think it sucks, but I was simply trying to share my experience and let others know what has worked for me. Thanks1
Posted by BokiBean on 2009-06-05:
Chuck, looks like you made "Top Advice from the My3Cents Community"!
Well done.
Posted by yoke on 2009-06-05:
chuck, I read what she was saying. I do agree that she should not have gotten a NSF for the hold that is the only fee that should be returned. Hopefully she will find out which place put the hold and not use her debit card there again.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
The reason, Chuck, is that the bank is obligated to pay that transaction when it is presented, whether there are funds or not at that time. I don't necessarily agree that they need to, but they are clearly within their rights to do so. And even though you are dismissive of Yoke and Kisa, the fact is that if the poster had a clue about what was in his account, he wouldn't have incurred any of the fees. I'm just saying...
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-06-05:
Ken, we are not bantering about legal vs illegal. The issue is the bank will screw their customers to the MAXIMUM PERMITTED BY LAW. To hell with ethics and fair treatment.
Posted by dab1960 on 2009-06-05:
I am the original poster of this:
My point is that a pending transaction has caused (3) overdraft fees, even though no negative balances are reflected....and their answer to my questions are contradictory....they say they took the pending money out which caused the (3) negative transactions, and yet I still incurred an overdraft on the pending amount when posted. So if they took the money to cover the pending, causing the (3) overdraft charges, I shouldn't have been charged again for when they posted it. And on the other hand....my balances weren't negative for the (3) that they charged me ofr previously. I have printed the statement and it doesn't show any negative balances until the very last (1), but yet charged (4) overdraft fees totalling $156...for what I can see as (1) negative transaction.
Posted by dab1960 on 2009-06-05:
And I have since written formal complaints to the Federal Currency Commission and The Massachusetts Attorney Generals office.
Posted by Monique on 2012-02-23:
Citizens Buffalo NY I have been through hell and back being told there is nothing I could do, living day to day and all my deposits are made through electronic fuds (merchant depsit) during the two years with Citizens I paid at least 3000 per year in o/d fees. same at HSBC same at M and T I mean the way all these banks noted that this positing debits first even if there is a deposit sitting right next to the debit so I am charged $35.oo then $37.00 per trans then 6.99 per day. I mean thousands they have taken from me and this was prior to everyone one catching on to way banks were processing.. so you are not alone..
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Worst. Bank. Ever.
Posted by Really, really on 03/08/2011
PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND -- Let me start by saying, I live in Florida and my parents live(d) in Vermont.
My mother and father had a mortgage with Citizens Bank. My dad died 10/23/10 and my mother was in the hospital. I was in Vermont helping with things at that time.
Citizens Bank called about payment, I explained the situation (and that my mother would be getting to her financial business when she got out of the hospital). I wrote the check out and had my mother sign it. All was right with the world again.
I returned to Florida in late November, but booked a flight back to Vermont, as my mother was still in the hospital when I left and I felt I needed to get Power of Attorney and take over her bills until she was better.
Sadly, after having flown my mother down to Florida (with her money) so I could care for her in my home, my mother passed away 1/23/11. I had to return north to arrange for her funeral and start the paperwork to become executor to her estate.
I contacted the people that needed to be contacted and explained the situation. Everyone was understanding and sympathetic. However, the day after I contacted Citizens Bank a very rude woman called asking for, first my dad, and then my mom. It was Citizens Bank. I could not believe these people! Even after I told her the situation, she was coarse and rude. She told me to fax the death certificates and executor paperwork as soon as I was named.
After returning home, my sister, who lives down the road from my parent's house and stops in frequently, called to tell me on 2/25/2011 that Citizens Bank called and I needed to call them. I did and spoke at great length with Shayla, who told me to fax both death certificates, my driver's license, my contact information, and a note asking what I can do to keep the account in good standing until the paperwork gets through the courts (how customer friendly is that!?!). I did all of that on 2/25/11.
Thankfully, I had received a check from my mother's insurance and was able to pay all the bills due (I am still waiting for the court to name me executor).
I paid Citizens Bank's February payment (due the 10th) and March's payment on 3/4/2011.
Yesterday, 3/7/2011, I receive two letters from Citizens Bank, one addressed just to my dad and one addressed to both my parents demanding they contact them within 10 days of the date of letter (dated 2/28/11, mailed 3/1/11) or they would turn the account over to a collection agency! My mother and father never paid these people late and have $8000 in one of their local branches. It wasn't like this was a problem account...not to mention the fact that I had spoken to numerous people there explaining the situation AND faxed everything their employee asked me to fax!
Needless to say, I called them in a rage. I did not call the number on the threatening letter, as it is their Consumer Counseling Dept. and I did not need help with paying my bills...although I will probably need counseling after dealing with these inept buffoons.
After dialing and connecting to their automated service, I had to put in my father's social security number so they could "better serve me" and waited for, "The next available representative". Lynn was finally available.
I told her I wanted to speak with a supervisor. She needed the account number I was calling about...thanks for serving me better. I gave it to her and she stated she would take a look at the account. I told her no, that I wanted to speak to a supervisor for the reasons listed above.
After some back and forth, she said she needed to connect me to the 'correct' department and asked what kind of loan it was dealing with (did she not just get the account number?!?)...I told her it was a mortgage. She transferred me to Denise...in the Customer Counseling Dept!
Denise requested the account number, which I gave her. I told her I didn't need to speak to someone about anything other than the fact that I had notified them numerous times over the phone of the situation and had even faxed over all the things listed above and now I just wanted to speak to someone about the threatening letters and ineptitude of their bank. We had a few more back and forths.
Denise then told me that they had received the faxed death certificates...to which I responded that I knew that, that wasn't the point and that I wanted to speak to a supervisor about the things listed above. She then interrupted me to tell me they had received payment (which I had already told her I had paid with the insurance money); I again went over why I was calling and when she interrupted me the 3rd time, I finally screamed at her...asking her what part of, I know they received the death certificates and payments and that I just wanted to speak to a supervisor, did she not understand?!?
Finally, and very condescendingly, she agreed to get one; asking several times if I would mind being put on hold...each time I told her that would be fine as long as I would be speaking with a supervisor.
After about 5 minutes, Ms. Jennifer comes on the line and informs me that I have contacted the wrong department...to which I tell her, "No, one of your employees transferred me here!" She then tells me that this is the auto loan department (but, Denise told me it was the Customer Counseling Dept?!?) and she would need to transfer me to the mortgage department and to please bear with her and she would supply me that number as well, in case I needed to call back.
She was stumbling over herself because she was lying through her teeth...and, after more hemming and hawing, starts to give me an 800 number, which I finished for her because it was the number I had called initially...she then ignored what I had said and asked to put me on hold to get the number.
When she came back to the phone, she gave me an 877 number (877-754-7366) and was mumbling something about everyone still thinks this department deals with all loans...an email had been sent out, but she guessed not everyone had read their email...to which I responded that that was why I was calling...information given to that bank seems to fall into a black hole.
She then tells me she will transfer me to the correct department.
I'm on hold again waiting for, "The next available representative". Finally Donna answers. She asks for the account number. I calmly give her the account number, my name, and that I'm calling about my deceased parent's account. I also inform her that I have already spoken to Lynn, Denise, and Ms. Jennifer as well as numerous other employees on different occasions and I am just trying to talk to a supervisor. She asks if I can verify who I am by giving her my home address, phone number, and last 4 of my social security. I tell her I have faxed all that information to them and she should be able to see my parent's death certificates and all the other things I faxed and to put a supervisor on the phone. She then says she would just like to get a few bits of...I finally just told her that I would contact my lawyer and hung up.
I have not dealt with one employee there that gave me the confidence I was dealing with a professional business. They are a waste of space and as soon as the executor paperwork comes through, we are paying off the mortgage and pulling all my parent's money out of their bank.
I can only hope my parents insured the mortgage against their death...which might explain why they are so eager to put a loan that has been in outstanding status into a delinquent status for a payment 15 days late.
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Posted by Alain on 2011-03-09:
You might want to have an attorney help you with the estate.
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Boat Repo
Posted by Silent on 11/18/2010
33 cents of silence
PO BOX 1790 FLINT, MICHIGAN -- My family as well as the rest of the country has fallen on bad times.
I am a boat owner for the last 6 years who has struggled with a payment that I was never supposed to have been mine longer than a month.
To make a long story short, I have had to struggled with this burdensome payment that has put my family's well being at a additional risk since I have been injured laid off and lost my personal business. I had advised Citizens of my job status, communicated, asked to have the loan modified, I made sale efforts recently and successfully was able to sell the boat, or so I thought. I connected the bank and buyer and both parties had decided on a price of 20k discounted from 27k and to take the boat on a cash deal.
The auction price of this particular 21' Crownline and trailer even with the low 300 hrs would probably bring 10 to 12k I had been advised by meany local boat dealers and buyers. All that being said, we the buyer and I asked the case worker lady to provide us with the bank wiring instructions and the buyer would wire the 20k immediately. The buyer had viewed and inspected the boat and immediately offered 5000.00 Cash to put down and to wire the balance within 24 hrs!
Apparently bank changed their decision without warning and did not provide the wire instructions to us or answer the our constant phone calls for two days ......I personally called at noon to the bank and asked politely via our case workers voice mail to please call back so we could find out whats was going on? 45 Min before their close of business time on the 10th of November (the dead line date), the nice lady who I had been dealing with got nasty and said we had not called and that we were now passed the given dead line! I was very angry and asked if they were one of the banks that had taken the federal bailout money and if that was how they were going to pay my boat off and double their money? After the heated discussion I offered to return the boat and even drive it to the repossession man who I had spoken with multiple times previously. After hanging up at 5:00 pm the buyer called and said he spoke to the seller twice and was waiting on final closing instructions and we are still 8 days later!
I am trying desperately to keep a repo. And or a bankrupt off my record by paying this boat payment by feeding my family mac and cheese without gifts special treats or turkey for holidays and Christmas the past 2 years going on 3 we were on temporary disability and loans from friends! I can't believe that America is being manipulated by such crooked banks and employees! This is crippling Americans and our economy ! Instead of Citizens Bank of flint Michigan taking nearly double the auction price they would rather bankrupt a small American family who has taken bread off their table and assumed a personal responsibility for helping their institution sell a boat saving the bank thousands in repossession and legal costs! These selfish narrow minded folks are not willing to do their jobs and cooperate civilly to save their corporation from a larger loss that might require them to do their job correctly and fight to help a fellow Americans family who cooperated and communicated honestly during the loan, and went out of their way to find a solution to their own personal 6 year family problem rather than take the easy way out and bankrupt on their personal debt! Shame on these crooks in flint.
Imagine this;
if every boat, house, or car owner in default would try to be responsible, citizens could save 10 k per loan possibly like I am trying to! At that point citizens might be able to fix this little balance problem they have.
Companies » bank (public)
citizens republic bancorp
Of bank bailout commitment
Of total bailout commitment.
Disbursed $300,000,000
returned $0
revenue to gov't $13,875,000
net outstanding $286,125,000
jump to table of transactions
* profile
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map: corporate headquarters of citizens republic bancorp.
Flint, mich.
See all recipients in Michigan
loud, discussed, broke, and barley alive!
Country folks will survive happy holidays good luck America
don't forget to vote!
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Posted by Anonymous on 2010-11-18:
These people that run these banks are full of pricks. They dont care. Plain and simple. They dont care about you or the buyer, or weather or not you get a repo on your record or not.
Posted by werelucky on 2010-11-18:
You lost me where you say the buyer contacted the seller twice and they have been waiting 8 days for instructions. I thought you were the seller. The real reason the county is in the financial mess is because to many people bought to many things they couldn't afford on credit. I'm not sure what the government bailout has to do with defaulting boat owners. As a Citibank stock owner I want to see the bank have it's loan contracts fulfilled.
Posted by warddw1526 on 2010-11-18:
Looking at the list of banks that received bailout money (http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/), Citizens was not on the list.
Although their parent bank RBS did receive bailout money in England
Posted by silent on 2010-12-01:
so far this 3 cents worth has generated a immediate response from citizens and we are working on a resolution.
Posted by trmn8r on 2010-12-01:
Why did you end up with 6 years of payments, when you weren't supposed to have more than one month's worth?
The rest of the country has not fallen on hard times. At least I haven't. I took out a large loan before the bank disaster, but I had enough cash on hand to easily pay the loan if a surprise occurred.
I just wanted to use the bank's money. I'm not keen on borrowing money I don't have.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-12-01:
"The rest of the country has not fallen on hard times." Where have you been trmn8r? Although I am happy to hear you are not one of the more than half of Americans who have been negatively affected in many ways by the recession. Here's a look at just a little of what it's done to the land of plenty and over half of her people;
Posted by trmn8r on 2010-12-01:
I've been living under a rock, evidently. The rent is reasonable, the utilities are low, and as I always have avoided in my life I didn't overextend myself. Therefore the recession did not cause great hardship.
A large part of the problem we have had in the past few years is that many consumers were heavily in debt. People using credit cards without regard for paying them off. Using mortages recklessly. For decades, I have shaken my head that the savings rate in this country is so pathetically low. It was 0% in June 2005. My savings rate was always around 20% or more when I worked.
I'm not alone. The people I know didn't lose their jobs, their cars. I realize a lot of people ARE going through a rough time. But I don't agree with any statement like "the whole country..." Every person is in their own situation.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-12-01:
Most people I know did not over extend themselves either, but due to circumstances beyond their control, businesses going under, hours being cut, layoffs, jobs being scarce or non existent in many areas, loss of medical benefits, etc., many of those people have suffered greatly in the economic meltdown.
Posted by Venice09 on 2010-12-01:
Why didn't you sell the boat when you first realized you couldn't afford it? Unless it's your livelihood, a boat is not a necessity. I don't think it's fair to put yourself in the same category as struggling home/car owners.
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Seven dollars to cash a check drawn on their bank
Posted by Duderoo123 on 10/27/2010
HAMBURG, NEW YORK -- I just sold some old skis and boots to a used sporting good store. The owner cut me a check drawn on Citizens Bank .. simple enough ... so I took the check to the bank and attempted it to cash it. A very polite bank teller informed that because I don't have an account with Citizens Bank, there would be a $7.00 fee for cashing their own check. I just find this absolutely ridiculous; it seems that nothing is a service anymore; there has to be a price for everything .. it was a Citizens Bank check!!!!! ... just more corporate greed .. I will never bank with this company ... EVER!!!
I'm surprised she didn't bill me for the act of attempting to cash the check.
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Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-27:
It is ridiculous, and other banks have the same policy. The only way I get around it is to deposit the check into my own account.
Posted by GenuineNerd on 2010-10-27:
If you don't have a bank account, the only options is to pay the bank's fee, or use the services of a check cashing store, which also charges a fee. Anymore, the only way you can avoid paying a check cashing fee is to open a bank account of your own.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-27:
I know its rediculous, but you could have easily just deposited the check or cashed the check at your own bank and you wouldnt have had a charge at all.
Posted by bob932304 on 2010-10-27:
The bank is doing a non-customer a service. Why should it be free? I don't know of any banks that don't charge for non-customers.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-27:
The bank is doing the check writer the service by allowing the check writer to access their funds via a check. Any fees charged by the bank to redeem the check should be paid by the account holder and not the check casher.
If it were me I'd take the check back to the check writer and demand cash or I'll sue them in small claims court.
Posted by leet60 on 2010-10-27:
This is fairly standard at most banks. Non customes will pay a fee. As for the bank "doing the check writer the service by allowing the check writer to access their funds via a check", the check writer is paying for bank services already. In your analogy every check you write would incur a fee unless your landlord, auto finance company, grocery store, utility etc were customers of the same bank.
Posted by trmn8r on 2010-10-27:
"Non-customer check cashing fees" are very common, and with the recent legislation that cuts overdraft fees, they will probably become even more common.
Google what is in quotes above to see the banks' justification for the fee. I agree with the principle in taking some of your principal.
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2010-10-27:
DancingDan and leet60 are the only two comments here that have a grasp on what is reasonable.
Believe it or not a person I wrote a check to came back and told me they were charged fee by my bank to cash it. The next day I closed $20,000.00 + in accounts. They asked why...you will NOT charge someone to cash one of my checks and me remain a customer. End of discussion.
Posted by trmn8r on 2010-10-27:
Are you suggesting then that my comment is not reasonable? By what authority? I may disagree with a comment, but my head isn't so large I will decide the commenter doesn't have a clue.
Are you aware that some banks charge their own customers now if they want to use a teller? It costs money to pay those people to stand there. And, for example, spend 10 minutes to check someone's id and verify a check is good. How much do you think 10 minutes costs the bank? Zero?
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2010-10-27:
No, I was not suggesting your COMMENT was unreasonable. I was suggesting that BANKS were not reasonable and those two recognized straight up.
Sorry if I offended you, trmn8r, such was not the intent.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-28:
as I said, I would have just taken the check to my bank and deposited it. It doesnt cost me anything to deposit money into my own account, or even cash a check, if I have the available funds. I think its more of a convenience thing. You need the cash that second, so you either pay the fee, or dont cash it. theyre not holding you at gunpoint. I refuse to pay fees to cash checks.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-28:
you know how to REALLY stick it to these banks??? I just thought of it! If they want you to have an account there, by all means, use the check to open an account. tell them you want to deposit 7 dollars (the fee they would have charged you) in the account and take the rest in cash. Then a week later, close the acount and take the 7 bucks, or keep the account open in case you ever get a check you have to cash again. Thats a good way to stick it to em. why should I give them the 7 bucks???
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-28:
Prince-Ceasar, Or just not except checks at all. I no longer allow my renters to pay by check. I'll only accept cash or money order. Causes an inconvenience for the renters but eh it's not my fault banks have became so unreasonable that it's best not to deal with them when possible.
Posted by trmn8r on 2010-10-28:
This is great if you can find a bank with no checks to buy and no maintenance fee and no minimum balance. While these may have been available in the recent past, they will be harder to come by as banks institute new fees to make up for lost income.
What people *can* do is deposit checks in their own accounts. A radical concept.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-28:
Hey Mr. Radical concept what are you going to do when the big national banks start charging you to deposit checks into your own account?
The answer is simple. Only bank with locally owned community banks or credit unions. You'll get far better terms, better service and your business will be appreciated. It's just that simple.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-28:
well the bank Im with has no fees and no minimum balances. I wasn't required to purchase checks for the account either.
Posted by getoverit on 2010-10-28:
I would not have expected the bank to cash the check and would not have even wasted my time trying. I would not expect my bank to cash a check I wrote to someone else.
That's just not the way the system works. Never has, AFAIK.
If, for some reason, I wrote a lot of checks to people who did not have bank accounts and wanted to be sure they could cash them (this is a scenario I'm having trouble envisioning) I would make a point of finding such an account. But it certainly is not something I would take for granted.
tnchuck100: where are you banking now?
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-10-28:
Actually getoverit, it always has worked exactly that way. If you received a check and had no way to cash it, it required a trip to the issuing bank. They cashed it at no charge until recently (past 3-4 years).
Banks are getting greedy and forgetting that it is a privilege to hold OUR money. They want to have our money and then attach all types of fees for allowing us access to it. If you use ATM more than xyz times - fee. If you use a physical teller - abc fee. Now if you write a check to someone who has enough sense to not have an account with their greedy scheming arses - there is a fee for that too. When folks stop using them and start using more cash again, they will get a clue. If I wanted to pay extra for everything, I would just use my credit card.
Posted by Nohandle on 2010-10-28:
When I first joined this website others told us of bank fees many had never heard of before. Initially, members questioned the review. After a period of time it became apparent this neat little idea for extra income was gaining support by many banks. Unfortunately this doesn't make it right.
Say you have ample funds in your account and an individual presents the check you wrote as payment for services. As far as I'm concerned, if he doesn't have an account there but has identification, why should he be charged a fee to cash the check?
Posted by getoverit on 2010-10-28:
Maybe you're right, incrediblee. I honestly haven't tried to cash a check in a long time.
By the same token, I get a lot of service from my bank. I get the ability to use ATMs all over the country, online bill paying that saves me from writing lots of checks and buying stamps, etc., and still write checks when I need to. I pay no fees (but do keep a minimum balance) for any of that, so all they get from me is the use of my money.
The point is that I don't expect to get those services for free. Banks are offering lots of services they didn't in years past and they're not non-profit institutions.
I'm not into some kind of weird love affair with my bank but feel that I get my money's worth. If I didn't, I'd have a different type of account or a different bank.
They're all in competition for our business. Get out and shop!
Posted by acntlaw1 on 2011-01-24:
to avoid that fee, present the check across the counter for payment. The check will credit to your account at 5 that day.
Posted by Obsfucation on 2011-01-24:
This is one fee that SHOULD be illegal. The customer who deposits with the bank is doing so tha the bank will honor his checks. They should not be permitted to charge for what is the very basis of a demand deposit account.
Posted by MotleyCrueGuy on 2011-03-13:
Get over it. Why is it that people have no problem going and spending $7 on a box of screws at Lowe's, or paying $50 to get a haircut, but expect banks to do everything for free?
That $7 means no check holds from depositing at the bank you have an account in, and immediate access to funds - sounds worth it to me.
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Citizens Bank Are Just Paid Thieves
Posted by Sal8231966 on 02/26/2013
NEW BEDFORD, MASSACHUSETTS -- Dear Sirs,
On February 1, 2013 I wrote a letter to you stating:
I have a checking account with you (xxxxxxxxxx) and in 1 year alone you've charged me over 1500.00 in overdraft charges and sustained overdraft fees. I demand you refund all my fees within 72 hours, not 2 months like last time. As you know Citizens Bank has a class action suit against you for exorbitant fee charges. Please respond immediately. I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx
end of letter from 2/1/13
You chose to do nothing and leave me to be responsible for the charges which is UNACCEPTABLE. I opted out of overdraft coverage MANY TIMES, the most recent being JULY 2013 and Nick [snip] said he would monitor my account to make sure I didn't opt into overdraft coverage which I NEVER did and Nick did not monitor the account as he said he would. Since July 2012, Citizens has charged me over 1500.00 in overdraft fees, what's the point in opting out if you're going to charge me anyway.
One time, recently, Citizens charged me over 100.00 (overdraft and sustained overdraft) for a 1.29 charge to iTunes which put my account in the red be less than. 75 cents. After my last letter of 2/1/13 I finally got a callback 2/7/13 and was told the only solution is put limits on my account. Why should I be penalized for your mistakes. I'm on disability so one overdraft charge of 37.00 is like 137.00 to me. Just because I'm disabled physically doesn't mean I'm disabled mentally. I'm smarter than most people give me credit for, in fact when I graduated college, it was in nursing with High Honors. Not only am I smart but I'm very persistent, particularly when I'm being messed with, like now.
I have tried to deal with just Citizens but now I'm going to send this to the media, and put it in my blog. I'm also going to seek a lawyer regarding this, just because you are a big company with a lot of money doesn't mean you can screw the little guy without ramifications, as the recent class action suit against you proved. Of which you settled to pay 137.5 millions small potatoes when you stole billions from customers. If you think "stole" is too strong of a word think of it like this, if someone came in your bank demanding money, wielding guns and wearing a ski mask, that would be considered stealing, your bank is essentially doing the same thing minus the guns and ski mask.
If your looking for a bank avoid them like the plague and if you already have an acct. w/ them RUN
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Posted by trmn8r on 2013-02-26:
If the debit that made the account negative did not result from a one-time purchase, but was a recurring transaction (for example), I believe it would be paid and not be subject to the opt-out.
I monitior my own account do it doesn't go negative, and I get no overdrafts.
Posted by clutzycook on 2013-02-26:
Gotta agree with 8r. Keep track of your accounts (use a old-fashioned checkbook register if you mush) and you won't have to worry about overdrafts.
Posted by JR in Orlando on 2013-02-26:
If a person's bank account runs so close to zero that a $1.29 charge makes it overdrawn, then they should not use a debit card--without keeping a meticulous checkbook register listing ever expenditure. It is fine to not keep track, if you have a big cushion in your account, but to not do it when you are near zero is what causes the problem.
The bank is simply doing what they and you agreed to when you opened the account. It is not the bank fault. The question I have is: If the op has the money to pay $1,500 in late fees, why can't the OP put a cushion of $500.00 in his account and not spend it? That would eliminate most of the problem of overdrafts.
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Stay away from Financing/Refinancing with Citizens Bank Nighmare/Fiasco
Posted by Groupxtreem on 02/01/2013
BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS -- My husband and I are middle aged citizens and we're trying to refinance our home with my husband working full time and me as a part tine worker were offered by Citizens bank a refinancing option to our current home. Since we maintained accounts with Citizens bank, we trusted their offer and began the loan processing in July, 2012. I've to let the world know that, It was nothing but a nightmare process and now after six months, still they didn't close the loan and we lost the deposit $450.00. Citizens bank's loan dept literally taken us for a ride.
We've submitted all the long list of documents within two weeks of the initial processing. Then started following up...2,4,6,8,12 weeks passed by...After 4 months they started asking the same documents we've submitted earlier...We're helpless and the worst part about this was, there was no explanation from the Citizens bank side, why it took so long for responding and queries and what they were doing with our files...For them, the customer satisfaction has no value in it.
We did not understand how such a huge mistake could have happened. Almost six months later they started requesting the same documents and other list of verification again...we kept on requesting them really humbly to stop this processing fiasco and refund our hard earned $450.00. The Citizens bank simply replied NO...We lost our deposit money as well as 4+ months of reduced monthly mortgage payment. The Citizens bank dragged us to this nightmare went with no remorse or apology. It's hard to imagine such bank can do to the long standing customers.
If you are considering Refinancing/Financing loan with Citizen Mortgage, our humble request to run away from them and don't ended up a prey like us. Please stay away from them for loan purposes.
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The Nuvoton NPCE791x is a highly integrated family of embedded controllers (EC) with an embedded RISC core and integrated advanced functions. It is targeted for a wide range of portable applications and provides best-in-class complete EC functionality combined with SPI BIOS flash.
The NPCE791x family is a pin-to-pin compatible, drop-in replacement to the NPCE78nx and WPCE775x families of devices, requiring only minor firmware changes.
All the devices in the NPCE791x family incorporate the CompactRISC ® CR16CPlus core (a high-performance 16-bit RISC processor), on-chip ROM and RAM memories, a rich set of system support functions and a high-performance Flash Interface Unit (FIU) that interfaces directly with external SPI flash memory devices.
System support functions include: watchdog, enhanced PWM, timers, interrupt control, General-Purpose I/O (GPIO) with internal keyboard matrix scanning and I/O expansion support, PS/2 ® interface, SMBus ® interface, UART, PECI 3.0, SPI™, high-accuracy Analog-to-Digital (ADC) and Digital-to-Analog (DAC) Converters for battery charging, system control, system health monitoring and analog controls.

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Which utilities are having the greatest success with their green power programs? NREL has compiled extensive data on utility green power programs and produced the following "Top Ten" lists of program characteristics and results: total sales of renewable energy to program participants; total number of customer participants; customer participation rates; percentage of renewable energy in total retail sales; the lowest premium charged to support new renewables development; and utilities using at least two percent solar to supply their green pricing programs.
Download Information Release:NREL Highlights 2012 Utility Green Power Leaders
Previous Top Ten Lists -December 2010, December 2009, December 2008, December 2007, December 2006, December 2005, December 2004, December 2003, December 2002, December 2001, June 2001, November 2000, April 2000
* City of Palo Alto provided an updated response after the submission deadline. The updated ranking is provided here but the remaining rankings have been unchanged.
Note: The average net premium for City of Ponca over 2012 was -0.08¢/kWh.
Note: While additional individual utility products may include at least 2% solar, this list represents the overall mix provided by the utility to meet all of its green pricing needs.
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New BCI office open in Cambridge
The Columbus Dispatch - January 18, 2013 2:01 PM
The Bureau of Criminal Investigation has opened a new regional office in Cambridge, Ohio, Attorney General Mike DeWine said today.
The office, at 1225 Woodlawn Ave., Cambridge, will be open part-time for investigators to submit evidence to agency labs in London and Richfield. It also has office space for agents.
DeWine said the Cambridge location will make BCI services more accessible to law enforcement. "The sooner we receive evidence, the sooner we can test it and get the results back to investigators."
Guernsey County Sheriff Michael McCauley said having a local office will help investigators reduce travel time, an important consideration as agencies cope with funding and personnel cutbacks.
The BCI main office is in London, Ohio. Other offices are in Athens, Bowling Green, Richfield, and Youngstown.


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Published on January 25th, 2012 | by ziggy6
One Simple Way to Conserve Water at Home: Take a Navy Shower!
There are many great and pleasantly simple ways to conserve water usage at home. Want to save an extra 50+ gallons of water each and every day? Here's one way you may not have considered before: take a navy shower! No, you don't need to shout "yes, drill sergeant" or drop and do fifty push-ups at any point in this process. It's actually one of the better ideas to come out of the military…
A navy shower is a method of showering that originated on ships at sea, where freshwater supplies were frequently in short supply. The idea is quite simple: Turn on the water and rinse, turn off the water and scrub down with soap, and then turn on the water once again to clean off the soap. Really, that's it.
Simple Home Water Conservation
Instead of having the water run for the entire duration of the shower (which is ultimately very wasteful – you'll be no cleaner for it, believe it or not!), the shower is on for a mere two to three minutes.
Need more convincing? Amazingly, the average 10 minute shower requires 60 gallons of water. That's 240 gallons of water for a family of four, just to shower once each day! A navy shower, however, can use as little as 3 gallons! To make the argument even more convincing, this resourceful individual did the math to calculate how much money that simple change would save you.
Combined with a low flow showerhead, you'll be on your way towards greater water conservation at home!
Image credit: flickr via Squiggle
6 Responses to One Simple Way to Conserve Water at Home: Take a Navy Shower!
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We did this in the scouts, also. At a lot of camp grounds, the showers had pull chains. The shower was only on while you were pulling on the chain.
What about the issue that my tankless water-heater, which supposedly saves energy by not needing to keep a tank of water hot on standby, takes about 5 minutes to warm up before I won't risk hypothermia by getting under the water?
You want it realy Navi-like? Keep the shower cold and this will make sure that you don't waste water. I remember my travelling in Nepal. A hot shower was a bless, but hey: How many gallons did I save there?
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Last fall, an already promising-looking trailer was dropped, and this new one suggests that the film, if not an Oscar contender, will at the very least be an energetic and well-told sports biopic. Written and directed by Brian Helgeland, newcomer Chadwick Boseman takes on the role of Robinson, the first star player to break the color barrier in Major League Baseball, facing enormous controversy and threats to his safety. The supporting cast is pretty solid, with Harrison Ford growling his way through as supporting Brooklyn Dodger exec Branch Rickey, Nicole Beharie as Robinson's wife, and folks like Christopher Meloni, John G. McGinley and more popping up.
"42" rounds the bases on April 12th. Watch the trailer below, followed by a featurette about the making of the film with more footage.
triguous | January 10, 2013 10:23 PM
Looked promising until that terrible rap took me out of the moment completely. Not necessary at all. And a bit of a slap in the face to the struggle Robinson endured. If only he had this song on an iPod, he'd have been so much better off. Ridiculous.
Real | January 10, 2013 6:22 PM
This looks really good!
rob | January 10, 2013 2:14 PM
oh my god, that looks amazing. Can't wait!


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Denali- Great Mountain View- 5br/4ba-Hot Tub-North Georgia Mountains, Georgia Vacation RentalsCabin rentals in both the Blue Ridge GA and the Ocoee River areas. Great fall scenery and tons of warm weather fun. Rafting, hiking, biking, horseback, fishing, are all nearby from any of our cabins. Give us a call for your next mountain getaway...
Luxury Rv for RentAtlanta, Georgia RV RentalsThis is a 40' Monaco Diplomat 40k miles. Many upgrades - two plasma TV's with built in DVD players, satellite, two slide outs, fully contained with 7500 onan quiet generator and diesel engine. Sleeps six adults. We deliver, charter or you can drive.... US $199 Per Night
Southern Cross Guest RanchMagnolia Midlands, Georgia Dude RanchAll-inclusive guest ranch offering an outstanding horseback riding vacation, unguided riding opportunities, excellent cuisine and delightful accommodations. The 200 scenic, rolling acre property features pool, hot tub, game room, bikes, and more....Starting at US $115 Per Night


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Reviewed By: Brian House on 12/17/10
We are having a rough winter here - lots of freezing temps, ice and snow and these gloves handle them with ease.
These gloves provide great cold weather protection at an inexpensive price. The windproof fabric keeps your fingers toasty warm in extreme conditions. Choose same size as regular cycling gloves. Women go one size smaller.
These gloves feature:
Aerotex water/wind proof palm and back
Micro fleece brow/nose wipe on thumb
Amphib palm gripper
Secure fit velcro closure
Reviewed By: Brian House on 12/17/10
We are having a rough winter here - lots of freezing temps, ice and snow and these gloves handle them with ease.
Reviewed By: A customer from Brooklyn on 2/3/11
The gloves keep my hands warm in 20-30 degrees for about an hour, but they don't breathe at all, so they actually get a bit sweaty. They are also a bit big for my 30-year old female hands/wrists. For the price I can't complain though. Better sweaty than frostbite.
Reviewed By: A customer from seattle washington on 3/5/11
They work very well, but for a long ride (30) miles your hands will start getting cold, I should purchase the other ones (Seal Skinz Waterproof Gloves).
Reviewed By: A customer from Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA on 10/6/12
The gloves kept my hands warm on a very cold drop down Mont Ventoux, France last week. Conditions were a good test as it was frosty cold, rainy, and foggy with strong winds. The fabric portion worked well as a nose wipe!
Reviewed By: Michael Bohler on 11/5/12
Keeps my hands warm on short rides down to about 40F. Lots of nose wiping soft material on the outside.


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Aventura >Food & Dining > Grill Time Restaurant
16145 Biscayne Blvd, Aventura, FL | Directions 3316025.924473 -80.154077
Mon. - Thu., Sun. 12am - 10:15pm;Fri. 12am - 3:30pm;Sat. CLOSED
Neighborhoods: North Miami
Excellent – This place is the best!!! The service and the food!! Simply amazing!
Best kosher restaurant in Miami – Grill Time is an anomaly in kosher dining. The food is fresh, the portions are plentiful. the ambience is wonderful and the servers are all very attractive young Israeli women who are there to please.
Upon being seated you'll be served a complimentary array of fresh salads and breads, and from there the menu is extensive and exciting. The appetizers are always spot on (I'm a big fan of the short ribs and the small wraps) and the main meat and chicken dishes are always a pleasure (try the grilled baby chicken rubbed with lime on a skewer, its healthy and delicious). I wouldn't recomend the fish dishes, they are the only flaw in this otherwise perfect dining experience.
Bring your kids or have a meeting here, the host and servers are very accomodating. This is a 'family' restaurant par excellence.
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**Valid on Economy shipping method only. Not valid on any other shipping method. Order total determined after any other discounts are applied and does not include any applicable taxes. Offer subject to change without notice. Limited time offer.
**Offer valid online only. Offer valid on full-priced styles only. Not valid on Stretch Sole, Busy Day, Chawaii, Ocean Minded, Crocslights & Collegiate collections and the following styles: 14558 Cyprus IV Heel, 15313 Leigh Graphic Wedge, 15626 Harborline Nubuck Loafer, 15607 TMNT Clog, 14850 Crocs Chameleon Shark Clog, 14851 Crocs Chameleon Seahorse Clog, 15682 Crocs Chameleon Whale Clog, 15684 Crocs Chameleon Octopus Clog. Cannot be combined with any other offer or discount. Quantities limited. Offer ends Monday 4/21/14 at 11:59 p.m. MDT.
Fairway Golf Hat
Every ounce counts — here's one of the lightest and most comfortable hats you'll come across on the course. You might not find another hat quite like it — it'll help you keep your cool even when your game is way off.
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6050Lawmakers focus on college security after Newtown
Associated Press
HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) — Connecticut lawmakers are considering ways to boost security measures at the state's colleges and universities, in addition to primary and secondary schools, following the deadly massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
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The Hampton style is a new wool, casual rug design from Capel Rugs. Hampton rugs have a flat woven construction. The goldenrod colorway is a beautiful addition to our assortment of gold and yellow area rugs.
This site is best viewed under Internet Explorer 7.0 or higher © Copyright 2014 Capel Incorporated Trademarks of Capel Incorporated


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2014 Champions of Change
On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 the White House honored ten leaders who are "Women Veteran Leader Champions of Change." The event recognized women Veteran industry leaders, highlighting their incredible contributions to our nation's business, public, and community service sectors.
2014 Women's History Month
March is Women's History Month. As the nation celebrates Women's History Month, VA salutes women Veterans for their accomplishments and contributions to society. Throughout the month of March, VA will host a series of events to celebrate the successes of women Veterans.
A New Resource for Female Vets
Female Veterans have a new resource for information on VA health care and benefits:
Women Veterans Outreach
VA wants you to know about the health care, benefits and services available to you.
Veterans Crisis Line:
1-800-273-8255 (Press 1)
Social Media
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs | 810 Vermont Avenue, NW Washington DC 20420
Last updated April 2, 2014.


text: That is a DIVERTER valve, not a shower control. It is intended to send water to one of several devices, i.e., hand held, tub spout, and/or hand held shower. It CANNOT be used to control the water temperature. You need a shower control valve, and then the diverter is connected TO IT if you have more than one shower head. The tempered water INLET is where the flow from the shower control is connected. Obviously, your "plumber" is not a "PLUMBER" or he would have known this.


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This guy holds the towel for Gore I believe. Hoping the Legion introduces themselves if this guy gets to return a kick. Btw, do you think Vernon Davis remembers the last time these guys played?
49ers RB Anthony Dixon says team prepping for the 'She-Hawks'
One the NFL's best emerging rivalries got another boost with a couple of tweets from former college teammates in anticipation of the San Francisco 49ers' showdown with the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday night.
49ers running back Anthony Dixon tweeted (then deleted) some bulletin board material this week.
Dixon tweeted: "Extra weight on the racks all week getting less sleep preparing for these She-Hawks I love hostile environments Imma feel right at home…"
FARRAR: Seahawks and 49ers ready to renew the NFL's best rivalry
Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright, who was Dixon's college teammate at Mississippi State, responded to Dixon's tweet (then deleted) on Wednesday night.
He wrote: "@Boob24Dixon lol the she hawks!! I'll be sure relay the message to the fellas.. Its gone be a long night for you and the forty whiners."
Last season, the 49ers beat the Seahawks 13-6 in San Francisco before the Seahawks got revenge in Week 16 with a 42-13 rout in Seattle.
"Nothing gets me fired up like degrading women" - Anthony Dixon
Some teams HAVE won Superbowls, Some teams have NEVER..... There is a reason fro that.
This sadly, is what constitutes smack talk nowadays. Can't say anything non-PC. The players I watched growing up would laugh at this vanilla-lite back and forth. Whatever happened to I want to eat his children (yes, that was Tyson, but you get the point), or showing some real hatred instead of this contrived BS between old college teammates.
The Seahawks vs 49ers is NOT....I repeat NOT.....one of the league's best rivalries.
Yes both teams are good....but that a rivalry does not make. The teams do not legitimately hate one another. West coast team fans tend to root for other West coast team fans for some odd reason.
It is blasphemy to compare this barely there rivalry to such great rivalries like BRONCOS/RAIDERS, PACKERS/BEARS, REDSKINS/COWBOYS, STEELERS/RAVENS.....
If the Seahawks will they retire another jersey? I don't know, maybe they'll retire a jersey for the hotdog vendor, considering the only other retired "jersey" is for the "12th man". LAME.
Glad Seahawk fans finally stopped bitching about the Super Bowl from 2006. It only took them like 5 years, by that time Pittsburgh had already won another Super Bowl title.
Why do they allow these 35 IQ morons (maybe generous) to "answer" questions? Just play the game ya dolt.
Blah blah blah......GO HAWKS!
Must have taken him a while to come up with that. College education got a real work out, huh?
Seattle is scum and so are their fans.
I believe the correct term is Sea Chickens
Slow news day, it seems.
49ers will dominate.
'Extra weight on the racks all week getting less sleep preparing...'
Hmm... so tell us how you prepare for men.
Who is Anthony Dixon again? I'm sure the Seahawks are trying to find info on him as we speak.
@yadda71 If Seattle wins, are they going to retire the second jersey in franchise history? Maybe you can hang the hot dog vendor's jersey up there with the 12th man's "jersey". Clowns.
@TyWagner "or beating women" -half the NFL
@EdEsposito1 Some teams live in the past, some teams live in the now.
@fabio.fantone The players you grew up watching probably don't even remember their own names.
@fabio.fantone Yes, back when hate -was-hate and men-were-men. where is the hate, people?
@gooniegoogoo4 Ohhh come ON ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we HATE,,,,,,,,,,,,, its just that people in Seattle are so liberal they like to hide their hate and disguise it as envy. Like geez that Kaepernick fellow has nice ink- translation - Thug inked up like a prison lifer and looks like one too.
@riley8 who's the bigger dolt? The guy making the comment or the people like you eating it up?
@ElvisHitler troll much?
@ElvisHitler Spoken like a true scumbag, ElvisHitler.
@ElvisHitler hahaha Seattle is scum lol. The city is great and so is the team so are u referring to the mariners? lol
@ElvisHitler Why exactly are we scum? I don't live in Seattle but I've visited there several times and its a great city and a great team. I've been to San Fran once as well and thought the same thing. Do you hate us because we beat you last year? Your team won a game as well, just saying..
@HeathKocan Or Seadderall Seahawks, if you prefer.
@x72 OH YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH they dominated all right ,,,hahahahahahahahaha
The score ,,,,,29 - 3 They could NOT score a TD ,,,,, talk about an A$$$$$$kicking. Where are all you trash talking Californicators now !!!!!!
@DarrenZancan I was looking at the list of Super Bowl champions and I'm still trying to find the Seahawks on there.
@yadda71 @EdEsposito1 yeah and the 49ers have been better and are better than the Seahawks.
@Mech @matt37 Mech, do you own one of those popular #12 jerseys with the name "Fan" on the back? LOL, you guys have a lot of talent and a bright future. But you forget that we've done about as much in SF in the last two seasons as Seattle ever has. That is, win two division titles and lose a Super Bowl.
PS: You guys stole that lame "12th man" schtick from a college team.
@matt37 @HeathKocan A San Franciscite ,,,, talking about drugs ??? I am sure you know more then I. But isn't that gay town home to Barry the drug King Bonds,, I am sure he is a consultant to the whiners. More estrogen in that town then on OWN's whole network.
@Mech @x72 Yawwwwn. Good for you-you kicked our butts last night, again. Lot of good it did you last season. Still couldn't win on the road. So you better hope you get that home field advantage.
And happy to admit it, no excuses-great game by Seattle last night. But slow your roll-no one wins the Super Bowl in week 2. I know Seattle doesn't know a lot about Super Bowls or winning, in general, but that's how the NFL works.
@mystafugee @DarrenZancan Yeah look at XL when we beat the Steelers and the refs stole the game,,,,, worst moment in NFL refereeing history.
@matt37 @mystafugee @Mech @yadda71 Oh please ,,, Germany has a history of winning also,,,, they just lost that one big game like you.
@mystafugee @Mech @matt37 @yadda71He's also won as many as the entire Seahawks franchise.
That was a royal butt kicking, again! But slow your roll Seattle fans. I know this Week 2 game was one of the biggest in the history of your franchise, but no one wins the SB in Week 2. Relax.
I know Seattle isn't used to a lot of winning, but that's how it goes.
@mystafugee @yadda71 @EdEsposito1 Watched any football games recently !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1) Setting a Guinness World Record for noise in a stadium
2) Retiring their 4th jersey in franchise history....for "the 12th man"
3) Being the only franchise to win (and brag about) a division title with a losing record
4) Complaining about losing their only SB......still..........even though they lost by 11 points
5) Being gifted a Week 1 game vs Green Bay in 2012
6) Naming MATT HASSELBECK the quarterback of their 35th anniversary team
@Mech @matt37 Blah Blah Blah. You guys kicked our butts that game and you kicked it last night too. And you still haven't done anything noteworthy in the history of your franchise. I'm sorry if a gift TD last year and winning a Week 2 divisional game were two of the highlights of your franchise's history. We'll see what happens this season.
@matt37 @Mech @x72 It aint no roll,,,so now slowing. I didnt say we would win the super bowl,,, I said we we would beat YOU,,and we did. Then I got a bunch of trash talk from you losers and even after the Hawks kicked your butts you still trash talk. Living in the past must be good for you ,,maybe when SF was a decent city normal people could inhabit t,,they had a good team. But no more.
@matt37 @Mech @mystafugee @DarrenZancan And you will find SF in the list of losers who complain about crowd noise.
@Mech @mystafugee @DarrenZancan Mystafugee, you have to look at the list of "Wannabe SB Champions who are still complaining about officiating, even though we lost by 11 points". That's where you'll find Seattle.


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Sunday, September 16, 2007
He weighs, she weighs
It's all over the place: the evening news, magazines, actuarial tables, notes being sent home from schools.
BMI, or Body-Mass Index, is a number derived from height and weight. There are plenty of internet calculators to help you come up with yours. You are classified as being underweight, normal weight, overweight, or obese based on your BMI.
There are several reasons not to like the BMI, detailed in any number of places. My objection today is to it's gender-neutrality. There is no difference in BMI classification for men and women. Putting aside issues of muscle mass, or changes in body composition based on age, we're still left with the same chart for men and women. An average build, in-shape male always weighs more than an average build, in-shape female. Why should this not be reflected in the BMI charts?
This is where the BMI loses it's mainstream credibility, at least my experience. Mildly obese middle-aged males who look at their 'goal weight' on a chart are generally dumbfounded - they haven't seen a BMI of 25 since they were 17 years old. But when they ask me "I'm supposed to weigh the same as my wife is supposed to weigh?" it's hard to answer yes.
A woman with a BMI of 18-20 looks very trim. A man with a BMI of 18-20 looks sickly. I suppose one could claim that these perceptions are based on misogynistic ideas about what makes men and women attractive, but I don't think so. We have different growth charts for boys and girls; why the same weight chart for men and women?
3 comments:
- Rob said...
Agreed. Plus, BMI has little correlation with anything significant. Hip to Waste ratio is the best. I always laugh with patients when we look at goal weight. Those numbers are actually really misguided as far as numbers to put in front of people. They don't really reflect health, in my opinion.
- September 16, 2007 at 9:40 PM
- rlbates said...
I always (and still do) liked the formula for a healthy weight(I think from old insurance standards)-- a woman 100 lb for the first 5 ft of height plus 5 lb for each addition inch of height [range is +/- 10%]. For men, it's 100 lb for the first 5 ft of height plus 6 lbs for each additional inch of height [range is +/1 10%]. So for me at 5'4" the range is 108-132 lb. But a man at 5'4" would be 119-145 lb.
- September 17, 2007 at 7:41 AM
- Dr. Smak said...
Rob - do you measure waist to hip? I tend to ignore the BMI except for patients somewhat close to it. For those who are very overweight, I try to set a reasonable weight loss goal instead of shooting for the impossible.
RLB - I like that rule as well. Much simpler, too!
- September 17, 2007 at 8:31 PM


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After two months of shooting in Chicago, the NBC midseason drama "Crisis" has "gone on an unplanned hiatus" as of Friday reports Deadline.com. Rich Moskal, of the Chicago Film Office, confirms the show has suspended production through next week.
The political thriller (which bears narrative similarities to CBS's "Hostages") stars Gillian Anderson and Dermot Mulroney. The break is intended to give the show's writers time to rework a few storylines, per Deadline, which isn't necessarily a sign of trouble.
The last several weeks have been busy for TV in Chicago, with six series currently shooting: "Chicago Fire" and its forthcoming spinoff "Chicago PD" (NBC); "Betrayal" and the midseason comer "Mind Games" (ABC); and the single-camera comedy "Sirens," which comes to USA sometime next year. "Crisis" is the only one not set in Chicago; the suburban locations where it shoots stand-in for the Washington, D.C. area.


text: If Cinderella's happily ever after was more prints than prince, the process probably would have required more than bippity boppity boo.Instead of pumpkins, there'd be Inspirare. An incubator for fresh and emerging designers, the site launched this month as a fairy godmother to the fashion set.Based in SF, the company selects top talent from a pool of uploaded submissions, working one-on-one with each designer to create a limited capsule collection for its online shop. Final looks are selected through member votes and forums.It debuts with five labels (including Oakland-based Lila and June) with plans to rotate looks in November, December, and January. As for designs, think more Anna Dello Russo than Princess Aurora (Inspirare aims to showcase an architectural, edgy, and modern aesthetic).Collaborations with schools like the Academy of Art University are already in the works.Because with talent like this, it's truly a never-ending story.Available at inspirare.com, $200-$500. Photos: Courtesy of Inspirare


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Welcome to the Jacksonville University Alumni Association! With more than 24,500 alumni, your network of former classmates and friends is bigger than you think.
Our staff works to help you stay connected with your alma mater through the WAVE Magazine, special events, and so much more. Our sole purpose is to further the mission of Jacksonville University by serving our alumni and helping you stay in touch. So get involved and you'll wish you never left campus!Check us out on our social media sites:
Looking for a former classmate? Click here to visit our Stay Connected page for more information.
Graduated from Jacksonville University in the past 6 months? Get a JU license plate for FREE! Click here for details
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Jacksonville University
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Jacksonville, FL 32211


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When Holtman began teaching in 1983, Wellborn had a computer lab. Later, each of the school's classrooms was outfitted with a lone computer and then came Internet labs, she said. Today the veteran teacher is learning how to use smartphones and tablet computers, which began changing education shortly after they hit the market about five years ago.
"We can't just close our eyes to all those changes," Holtman said. "It's ever-evolving and teachers have to stay on top of things."
She spent time this week with roughly 270 other educators at Jacksonville State University for CORE Academy, a three-day conference that wrapped up Thursday.
"Things like this are extremely necessary," said John Hammett, dean of JSU's College of Education and Professional Studies. "This is an opportunity for professional development for teachers to come in and look at what other teachers in the region are doing."
In the past five years, K-12 schools have undergone a digital transformation as districts have incorporated laptops, tablets and smartphones into classrooms. The transition began in Calhoun County three years ago when Piedmont City Schools started issuing laptops to each student in grades four through 12.
During the last school year, the Calhoun County Board of Education invited students to bring their own mobile devices to class. Next year Oxford City Schools and Jacksonville City Schools will roll out initiatives to outfit students with take-home computer tablets.
Jacksonville Superintendent Jon Paul Campbell said the conference comes at a perfect time for his school system. Seventy teachers from his system attended the CORE Academy.
"The topics are so relevant for what we are doing," Campbell said.
While administrators move forward with plans to implement popular technology initiatives and teachers learn how to make them work, some are wondering whether the the digital transition is coming too quickly.
Jacksonville High School geometry teacher Seth Taylor is entering his fourth year as an educator. He uses technology for education extensively and said he supports the transition, but he said it also concerns him.
"It's moving too fast to be effective," said Taylor, who taught a class at the conference.
Campbell and other area superintendents have said they are working to ease educators' concerns about the transition through professional development provided at workshops like the CORE Academy.
The event included more than 50 classes and instruction from employees from the technology company Apple Inc., JSU professors and area educators who have successfully integrated technology in the classroom. Sessions touched on incorporating gaming into education, using technology to teach math and creating interactive activities for class, among other topics.
The CORE Academy is a by-product of a Collaborative Regional Education program, which traces its beginning to the collaboration between JSU, Piedmont City Schools and Apple to outfit students with technology. It expanded to include 19 school systems as local educators realized they were encountering the same challenges and opportunities because of the technology, said Alicia Simmons, director of Planning and Research at JSU.
Saks Elementary School Principal Hector Baeza said he was attending the workshop to learn about the latest technologies and teaching strategies so he can help his teachers next year. The key challenge for educators working through the digital transition, he said, is learning how to use the technology effectively.
Teachers must be certain they are "making the technology a part of the lesson and not making the technology the lesson," Baeza said. "If you're open to change it doesn't matter whether you're a first-year teacher or a 25-year veteran."
Staff writer Laura Gaddy: 256-235-3544. On Twitter @LJohnson_Star.


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Sororities and fraternities are almost too deep and far-reaching to define on paper. They are more than social groups that gather for parties. Their purpose is not to accumulate as many trophies as possible to show off to the public. Their members do not all look, dress, and act alike. These organizations and their members are not chosen as a special elite class to which one has to wear a pin to belong.Sororities and fraternities are tools for individual growth and development. They may be compared to miniature societies which essentially teach the principles of a democracy. There is a place for everyone. The older, more experienced members are present to guide the new members into their own position. Each organization offers opportunities in every field so that everyone can fit in.
Contrary to the belief of many people, sororities and fraternities do not strive for members who will conform in dress, interests, thoughts, and ideals. A Greek organization pledges individuals because it thrives on the unique characters, ideals, and opinions of its members. There is a place for the individual who is interested in activities and also the one who emphasizes scholarship. There is a place for the one who is elected to homecoming court and also the one who works hard on the float. It is only through these varied interests that a sorority or fraternity benefits an individual. One receives an education in all phases of college life, or on a wider scope, all phases of society.
The members of a Greek organization are sisters and brothers, sharing a strong bond of love and acceptance. Through this close relationship with others, you will reach a fuller development of your own character.
What is a sorority or fraternity? It is one of the the most worthwhile and rewarding groups to which one could ever belong.
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Where Mesa County's stimulus dollars go
More than $50 million has been promised to various agencies in Mesa County through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. A new breakdown of stimulus projects and funding by…
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Civilization: Beyond Earth interview - everything you need to know about the new factions, aliens, technology and more
Civilization: Beyond Earth has been announced. We're the first in the world outside of Firaxis to play it, and you'll be able to read my hands-on impressions in the next issue of PC Gamer UK. While I was at Firaxis, I had the chance to sit down with the two lead designers, Will Miller and David McDonough for a comprehensive hour-long chat about every aspect of Beyond Earth. Read on for details on Beyond Earth's affinities, its dramatic sci-fi tech research web, orbital gun platforms, alien Siege Worms, new high-concept win conditions and loads, loads more.


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Bruello Experience
A full immersion in the authentic flavours of Tuscan cuisine with an exclusive guided tour to one of the best winery producing Brunello di Montalcino.
The package includes:
- Accommodation for three nights in one of our Signature Suites
- Late check out at 1PM (upon availability)
- VIP Treatment on arrival
- Free entry to Salvatore Ferragamo Museum
- Breakfast Buffet
- One gourmet dinner for 2 people in Borgo San Jacopo Restaurant (5 courses with wine pairing selected by our sommelier)
- Gastronomic basket in room
- Montalcino Wine Experience at Castiglion del Bosco Winery
Castiglion del Bosco experience includes:
- Round trip transfer Lungarno Collection hotels in Florence / Castiglion del Bosco
- Guided tour of the winery exploring the process "from grape to wine"
- Wine tasting of 5 wines including Brunello di Montalcino
- 5 course Lunch at Osteria Canonica
Cancellation Policy
48 hours before arrival the reservation may be cancelled free of charge.If the reservation is cancelled less than 48 hours prior to arrival, we will need to charge the rate for one night to your credit card.
To guarantee your reservation, a valid credit card number is required at the time of the booking.
Information and Reservation
Reservation Office Lungarno Collection
Telephone +39 055 2726 4000
E-mail: email@example.com