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"Superb narration"
This was one of the best audio books I've listened to. The narrator was fantastic, doing a variety of different accents really well. The story was interesting and engaging, (although at times it felt like it strayed a little too far from topic and the characters rants became a bit tedious). At times it was laugh out loud hysterical. The language is probably what set this book apart for me -- the dialects, colloquialisms, and plenty of Bengali and English cursing - just funny. But more than that...thought provoking and enlightening -- I felt like I learned a lot about what it feels like to be an immigrant, always a stranger where you live. The author does a terrific job of presenting several differing and relatively extreme viewpoints on God/religion, which I did not expect and enjoyed.
It's quite long, which I also liked - the main story covers about 20 years or so, but there is also a great deal of character history (Bengal, India, Pakistan, Jamaica) included too. It's a fun ride - worth the time.
A great overview of multicultural society. Many voices that can be heard: views of different cultures brilliantly shown to the reader and, even more so, to the listening audience of the audiobook. You actually CAN HEAR those multicultural voices and see their diversity and divergence. I downloaded the book because I thought I should read it, and then, gradually, I have been drawn into it and loved its many voices and viewpoints. It's both poignant and funny, sarcastic and understanding at the same time.
It may be long, but it is really good.
I believe a reviewer should finish a book before submitting a review. What do you think?
"A Really Good Book"
A story of a mouse with man-made tumors and the scientist who made him, twin boys (one who is irresistible to women of all ages), a Bengali family, some Jehovah's witnesses, two lesbians, a few animal rights activists, two veterans of WWII, a failed suicide, lots of recreational drug use, and more. All this in a sometimes funny and poignant story.
The narrator is very good with the various accents and he held my interest throughout.
I truly enjoyed this book and really like this author.
"Quite a listen"
I am so glad I downloaded the audio version of White Teeth because I doubt I would have gotten as much out of (or ever finished) the book. The narration adds a whole new level to the characters.
Yes, this book is long, but come on people, what a mind! Smith has a brilliant way of bringing up modern questions and concerns wrapped up in subtle humor and over the top personalities.
"Beyond Brilliant -Sense of Humor Required"
White Teeth defies description. If you have no sense of humor don't bother. Many spots will cause a giggle and broad smile to cross your face. Then there those that you will undoubtedly laugh out loud. Way fattening if it were edible.
Characters I found to be well developed and lovable. As for a plot, that didn't come clear to me til part three.
All in all this is a unique and addicting novel. Already I know that I'll be listening again, and again. Surely this penning will never grow old.
Now Ms Zadie Smith is there a follow up to White Teeth?
"Great reader"
Jenny Sterlin does a wonderful job on this one. Her reading is engaging and does a great job bringing the different characters to life. Nice timing.
"Interesting... finally!"
When my book club chose this title I checked it out of my local library but couldn't get through 10 pages without falling asleep. I was thrilled to find it on Audible. While it takes forever for the plot to develop... nearly two thirds of the way into the story... I thoroughly enjoyed the narrator. She voiced every character so well you hardly needed to be told who was speaking! While it is a long story and it takes a while for the plot to develop, the reader and ending are worth the wait
"Multicultural comedy of manners (and more)"
I have listened to On Beauty and loved it, but White Teeth really bites into the depth of the divide between east and west, Muslim and Christian (and atheist) with a marvelously rendered set of characters. The plot does have a long developmental arc, but that seems beside the point. The characters and the subplots are of sufficient interest in themselves. The resolution was a bit over the top, but this book isn't about realism. All of the loose ends were tied up in a not-too-tidy bundle, because this story is anything but tidy.
Jenny Sterlin does a great job with the narration.
"Entertaining and enjoyable novel."
Colourful and entertaining! a Good read. I enjoyed the blend of cultures and religions. Zadie Smith has a good grasp of inter-race relationship between 1st generation foreigners living in London.
"Complex, thoughtful but fun"
The intertwining of 3 English families at the close of the last millenium is the subject of this novel that is both thoughtful and light-hearted. The lives of Jamaican and Bangladeshi immigrants are recorded along with the inevitable conflicts between these immigrants and their offspring who grow up in England. A real tour de force.


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Sensational style stems from these window valances. The floral embroidery makes the silky fabric come alive. Your home will blossom with the addition of these window valances from United Curtain Co.
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subset: commoncrawl


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Death Blow to Diet Theories...
Posted 23 July 2004 - 02:39 AM
Now the deathblow.. now people that drink alchahol, their skin gets so nice?.. have you ever seen men drinking beer, their face suddenly goes clearer.. I know everytime I drank alot and got drunk, the next day my face looked way better and absolutely no oil!!!
As I sober up, the oil slowly returns!!??
Now how can that be when ALCHAHOL IS BAD FOR THE LIVER???
go on work that out!!
Someone got an answer why alchahol cures acne (well doesnt cure it but it makes an incredible improvement)
Btw I dont drink anymore, but when I did, I looked preety.and my confidence sky rockets.
Posted 23 July 2004 - 03:16 AM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 03:21 AM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 03:26 AM
By the way I dont reccomend drinking alchahol to high levels, its not healthy.
Posted 23 July 2004 - 03:29 AM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 03:31 AM
You must be making a joke right????
Maybe you think your face looks better on alcohol because you're seeing a bit blurry????? Alcohol stresses your liver and the amount of fat in your blood stream rises. (this is clinically proven)
Personnally i don't think alcohol affects my acne seriously, but a lot of people say it does, i even know someone who has perfect skin but he says too much alcohol will give him some spots.
In reality things aren't black/white and there is some complex chemistry going on. Alcohol stimulates the E1 Prostaglandin series, and counters the bad E2 Prostaglandins. So, you might get less inflammation.
It's quite complex and i'm not the expert on the subject, but i think alcohol has more negative than positive side effects.
Ah, and i don't follow Kiesen or anyone else, i just know that a healthy diet is good for you and for your skin. For example, high sugar intake-->more insulin production --> more sebum production and inflammation. (clinically proven)
This is a very simple example how food can worsen your acne.
Posted 23 July 2004 - 04:58 AM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 04:59 AM
I was just saying that in my old days when I drank and partied, it did make a difference. and I didnt understand why cos technically it should make it worst as it should stress the liver, but it didnt.
My acne killing combination..
No breakfast (i wake up to late and have to rush usually to work or uni)
Tomato salad bread at lunch
1 500mg vitamin b5 tablet / wash face with aloe vera hand wash wipe face with towel (yes I carry a towel in my bag.)
Hi energy excersize afternoon
Eat whatever my mums cooked for me at night lol
I dont get one pimple doing this, but the scars are healing slowly.
Posted 23 July 2004 - 05:42 AM
#10 Guest_Stu :-)_*
Posted 23 July 2004 - 08:05 AM
Hi caroline, hows the water trick going
How does Vinegar help the bodies PH scale. Im curious because i thought the body if anything was to acidic which doesn't help our acne. Veg and fruits are in need to balance the acid alkaline scale. I would guess vinegar is acidic, so how does it help as such
Posted 23 July 2004 - 08:20 AM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 09:11 AM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 04:12 PM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 04:15 PM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 04:36 PM
people are different
Posted 23 July 2004 - 06:21 PM
Posted 23 July 2004 - 08:22 PM
Acne is nice.. I allways fell in love with girls who have acne, I tried to talk to them and get to know them, offcourse acne women have triple standards they dont like guys with acne. they look at me as if they dont suffer the same disease. dogs.
Women are evil and scheemers, but there has to be one that is an angel. all my 25 year life I have looked for this angel, but they are all evil.
Posted 23 July 2004 - 08:38 PM
All Women aren't evil. You just haven't met the right one yet.
Also, maybe they can sense your hateful attitude towards them....just a thought.
Posted 24 July 2004 - 12:58 PM


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Markey Cancer Center Support Groups. For more information, contact Joan Scales at 859-323-1403.
Jin Shin Jyutsu at Markey
The "Now Know Myself" Jin Shin Jyutsu Self-Help program is open to patients, caregivers and staff. It is held on the second Wednesday of each month, 1-2 p.m., in Conference Room 306, Whitney-Hendrickson Building. For more information contact Jennifer Bradley at 859-323-1797.
Jin Shin Jyutsu, similar to acupuncture, harmonizes the energetic system of the body utilizing light touch rather than needles. Jin Shin Jyutsu treatments may be received by working with a practitioner or by using a simple light touch technique known as self-help on ourselves. We use this technique daily without thinking as we hold our hands, touch our cheeks and generally self-soothe. When we do these simple holds with awareness, we become empowered to be a part of our own healing process. Come join us each month as we explore different ways we can use Jin Shin Jyutsu self-help to assist with side effects of cancer treatment and the stressors of our daily lives. All you need to bring is your hands!
American Cancer Society Look Good, Feel Better Program
This program will be held the first Wednesday of each month, 10 a.m. - noon, in the Comprehensive Breast Care Center conference room on the second floor of the Whitney-Hendrickson Building. The program is dedicated to improving self-esteem and quality of life for people undergoing cancer treatment. Download more information or visit the Look Good, Feel Better website for more information.
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text: The Office of the Registrar provides the framework for effective student-faculty-staff interaction through the development of the yearly College catalog, course scheduling, classroom assignments, student registration, student records/database maintenance, and evaluation of degree completion. In support of the educational process at Wheaton College, our goal is to provide timely, accurate and personal service to current and former students, faculty and staff while maintaining the integrity, accuracy, security and storage of all academic records. Fall 2014 Registration Online registration is now CLOSED. All schedule changes must be made in person in the Registrar's office. Deadlines: Sept. 30 - last day to drop an A quad course with a "W" grade. Advisor signature required. Oct. 17 - End of A quad. Oct 22 - B quad begins. Oct. 28 - Last day to add a B quad course. Nov. 4 - Last day to drop a B quad course without a "W". Nov. 25 - Last day to drop a full semester or a B quad course with a "W" grade. Advisor signature required. The Fall 2014 schedule has been updated. Course Evaluations Online course evaluations >> are conducted at the end of each quad during the Fall and Spring semesters.


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Product DescriptionTossing your bicycle into the trunk/backseat/hatch takes up precious cargo space(especially if Fido likes to tag along). Hook up your ride with the stylish Kuat NV Core-2 Bike Hitch Mount Rack and you'll have a simple, effective, and easy way to transport your bicycles.
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Get the latest news and information on The Safariland Group products, events and programs,
or view our press release archive.
EVI-PAQ®, a brand of Armor Forensics and provider of solutions to the everyday problems of real-life crime scene field work, has introduced the first evidence box with a window that allows users to view evidence without altering the chain of custody or unsealing the items.
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text:
Miley Cyrus Plants One on Katy Perry — See Them Kiss!
February 23, 2014 Top Stories
Pop star Miley Cyrus kissed Katy Perry her during her Bangerz concert at Staples Center in Los Angeles.
Afterward, Miley exclaimed, "I just kissed a girl and I really liked it a lot," referencing Katy's popular song.
Of course, this was not the only sexual stunt Miley pulled Saturday night. There was also an abundant amount of crotch-grabbing, twerking, grinding on teddy bears, and she even rode out on a hot dog.
Filed Under: Trending Stories, Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, Top Stories


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Comments: 13, viewing 1 - 13
Nice, love the retro sound
Very cool catchy tune!
The chorus of this one is extremely catchy, reminds me of the earlier rock music I got into. Kudos to you good sir.
Dude, very retro. Sounds a lot like the stuff I used to listen to in high school... and that's a good thing!
Now I understand why you're doing a Green Day tribute band.
A bit faster, and a bit more raw, and you'd hook me. Great composition though.
I really like this song Chris. It's nice and happy, good simple hooks, just a great pop song.
Reminds me a little of "You shook me all night long" by AC/DC
wow dude!
Nice tune
Nice stuff, but perhaps lacking a little pizazz.
Awesome tune!
i like this too!
cooool solo


text:
FOR ALL PRESS INQUIRIES CONTACT TREVOR DE BRAUW / BIZ3 firstname.lastname@example.com
FOR ALL BOOKING INQUIRIES CONTACT ANDREW MORGAN/BILLIONS firstname.lastname@example.com
We're on tour now:
9/6 Montreal, QC Casa Del Popolo
9/7 Toronto, ON The Garrison
9/9 Chicago, IL Schubas
9/10 Minneapolis, MN Triple Rock
9/11 Omaha, NE Waiting Room
9/12 Denver, CO Lost Lake
9/13 Salt Lake City, UT Kilby Court
9/14 Boise, ID Boise Contemporary Theater
9/15 Seattle, WA Barboza
9/16 Vancouver, BC Media Club
9/17 Portland, OR Doug Fir Lounge
9/19 Santa Cruz, CA Crepe Place
9/20 San Francisco, CA Brick & Mortar
9/21 Los Angeles, CA The Satellite
9/23 San Diego, CA Casbah
9/24 Phoenix, AZ Last Exit
9/25 Tucson, AZ Flycatcher
9/27 Austin, TX Holy Mountain
9/28 Dallas, TX Index Fest
10/26 New York NY LPR
10/27 Philadelphia PA Boot & Saddle
10/28 Washington DC DC9
10/29 Durham NC Pinhook
10/30 Atlanta GA Drunken Unicorn
11/01 Asheville NC The Mothlight
11/02 Nashville TN High Watt
11/03 Louisville KY Zanzabar
11/04 Cincinnati OH Southgate House (Revival)
11/05 Columbus OH The Basement
11/06 Buffalo NY Sugar City
11/07 Boston MA Great Scott
Here's a new track called IO:
Here's the Official Video of for IO we made with the large trebuchet I designed and constructed:
Here's a track from Anchor called Great Equator:
Here's the official video for Great Equator I made using Electron and Light Microscopes:
Our Indiegogo Campaign Video from Summer 2013:
Zammuto LP 2 from Nick zammuto on Vimeo.A video describing my method of rhythmically scratching the 'locked groove' of vinyl records:
Scratch Edition from Nick zammuto on Vimeo.
Bass Projector from Nick zammuto on Vimeo.
Pitchfork TV DocumentaryFilmmaker Matt Day made a documentary about my studio process, the home we built in Vermont, and the formation of the band leading up to our first shows last february. You can watch it now on Pitchfork TV
Bass Projector
Here's a new video about my method of scratching rhythms into the 'locked groove'...
New Track - Need Some Sun
Zammuto Tour Starts Tonight
Zammuto Tour Starts Tonight
Cyber Monday Sale and Euro Tour
Europe Tour Starts in Two Weeks
West Coast Tour Starts Today
ON TOUR NOW Hey All, We are beginning the second leg of our immense fall tour tomorrow down in DC....
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Western Digital: Well-Equipped to Face the Rising Competition
Awais is a member of The Motley Fool Blog Network -- entries represent the personal opinion of the blogger and are not formally edited.
The success of information technology companies is driven by their ability to innovate. The benefits of moving first also stand to be the greatest in this industry. Some companies try to add to their service portfolio by acquiring other IT companies that possess differentiating products. The recent move by Western Digital (NASDAQ: WDC) to acquire VeloBit makes the company fall under this category.
How does the acquisition of VeloBit benefit Western Digital?
VeloBit is a private provider of breakthrough I/O acceleration technology and server density optimization. Western Digital intends to fully combine VeloBit with HGST, a wholly owned subsidiary of the company. The intended integration will assist in HGST's journey to deliver value for datacenter storage via software utilization, to attain higher performance.
VeloBit is expected to increase storage system performance through more efficient usage of processor and storage resources. This is achieved through an added transparent acceleration layer that utilizes solid-state drives (SSDs) to boost performance.
Together with VeloBit's SSD caching software, HGST will now be better equipped to supply corporations with low latency and high IOPS solutions for larger density. This purchase augments with Western Digital's proposed sTec acquisition for HGST. It also highlights Western Digital's eagerness to enter the enterprise SSD space. The current acquisition of VeloBit, along with the proposed purchase of sTec, should add to HGST's technology standing and IP portfolio, with supplementary engineering and design resources.
Source: Western Digital Acquires VeloBit for Integration into HGST
Western Digital is currently implementing a strategy to enhance value of datacenter storage products on the whole. The acquisition of VeloBit is a partial way to achieve the company's targeted goal.
VeloBit adds immense efficiency with five times higher number of desktops being run at three times lower the cost, while the average boot time would reduce by 11 times. This purchase has also increased the range of Western Digital's service offerings in the high growth enterprise solid-state storage market.
Solid-state runs store data on microchips that command hard drives, rather than magnetic platters. They are usually thought of as faster and more dependable, though at an increased cost.
The acquisition is aimed at catering to the customers' needs. This is planned to be achieved through tightly integrating storage optimization software with the hardware.
Where do competitors stand?
EMC (NYSE: EMC) also has its operations centered around developing and delivering information infrastructure and virtual infrastructure technologies, solutions, and services. EMC recently introduced a range of new products. The new data domain systems will provide four times more efficient performance.
It is expected to provide 27 times more scalability compared to rival companies. Customers will be able to remove storage silos by merging backup and archive data on one storage platform. Cloud backups will now be easier to scale and manage, utilizing the new features included in Mozy.
EMC also acquired privately held Aveksa. This will extend EMC's RSA's vision of Adaptive IAM. Its purpose is to convert traditional static systems into efficient and scalable "situational perimeters" to assist corporations in managing user lifecycles and access across corporate and cloud environments.
NetApp (NASDAQ: NTAP) is also a key player in the industry. The company looks forward to investing $15 million in ecosystem sales collaboration and technology integration with Microsoft to speed up the implementation of corporate cloud deployments. The NetApp Partner Program supplements the company's current offerings in the Microsoft Cloud OS Acceleration program.
With the competition growing stiff, it may be hard to pick the better performing company. To begin with, my core company, Western Digital, is taking strong steps to increase its market presence by providing highly efficient services. The recent acquisition carries immense upside potential, which will benefit HGST.
However, the company does not have a history of paying dividends. Price appreciation is the only form of return for investors. In my opinion, the investment is recommended for investors who can lock their money for some time till the synergies start reflecting in the price.
With rigorous product launches coupled with the acquisition, EMC has strengthened its foothold in the market. The future of the company is very bright as it strives to stay ahead of others through innovation. The company has also begun declaring dividends from 2013. The company is a buy candidate for investors who look forward to getting regular income along with the price return upon sale.
It's incredible to think just how much of our digital and technological lives are almost entirely shaped and molded by just a handful of companies. Find out "Who Will Win the War Between the 5 Biggest Tech Stocks?" in The Motley Fool's latest free report, which details the knock-down, drag-out battle being waged by the five kings of tech. Click here to keep reading.
Awais Iqbal has no position in any stocks mentioned. The Motley Fool owns shares of EMC and Western Digital.. Try any of our Foolish newsletter services free for 30 days. We Fools may not all hold the same opinions, but we all believe that considering a diverse range of insights makes us better investors. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy. Is this post wrong? Click here. Think you can do better? Join us and write your own!


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Baidu Inc. Stock Buy Recommendation Reiterated (BIDU)
- EXCLUSIVE OFFER: Jim Cramer's Protégé, Dave Peltier, only buys Stocks Under $10 that he thinks could potentially double. See what he's trading today with a 14-day FREE pass.
- The revenue growth greatly exceeded the industry average of 9.2%. Since the same quarter one year prior, revenues rose by 44.3%. This growth in revenue appears to have trickled down to the company's bottom line, improving the earnings per share.
- Investors have apparently begun to recognize positive factors similar to those we have mentioned in this report, including earnings growth. This has helped drive up the company's shares by a sharp 69.91% over the past year, a rise that has exceeded that of the S&P 500 Index. Regarding the stock's future course, although almost any stock can fall in a broad market decline, BIDU should continue to move higher despite the fact that it has already enjoyed a very nice gain in the past year.
- BAIDU INC's earnings per share improvement from the most recent quarter was slightly positive. The company has demonstrated a pattern of positive earnings per share growth over the past two years. We feel that this trend should continue. During the past fiscal year, BAIDU INC increased its bottom line by earning $4.78 versus $3.02 in the prior year. This year, the market expects an improvement in earnings ($30.41 versus $4.78).
- The gross profit margin for BAIDU INC is rather high; currently it is at 69.53%. Regardless of BIDU's high profit margin, it has managed to decrease from the same period last year. Despite the mixed results of the gross profit margin, BIDU's net profit margin of 34.28% significantly outperformed against the industry.
- Despite currently having a low debt-to-equity ratio of 0.51, it is higher than that of the industry average, inferring that management of debt levels may need to be evaluated further. Even though the debt-to-equity ratio shows mixed results, the company's quick ratio of 5.37 is very high and demonstrates very strong liquidity.
--Written by a member of TheStreet Ratings Staff. STOCKS TO BUY: TheStreet Quant Ratings has identified a handful of stocks that can potentially TRIPLE in the next 12-months. Learn more.
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Reader Story: How My Parents and I Partnered on a Win-Win Savings Plan For College
Published on - May 29th, 2011 (by J.D. Roth)
This guest post from Robb Engen is part of the "reader stories" feature at Get Rich Slowly. Some reader stories contain general advice; others are examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success — or failure. These stories feature folks from all levels of financial maturity and with all sorts of incomes. Robb writes about personal finance at Boomer & Echo, where he and his mom (she's the Boomer, he's the Echo) offer their perspectives on saving, investing, and personal finance.
It's that time of year when high-school students are thinking about their future plans and what they're going to do for college. Most will be leaving the nest to live on their own for the first time.
My brother attended college in our home town, so he lived at home, saving on housing expense. However, I decided to get my college experience in another city and, after a long good-bye, set out to live in the campus residence during my first year of school.
Buying a House
Before year two, my parents and I decided to purchase a house for me to live in. We found a five-bedroom house and, since my parents had saved and invested all the family allowance payments they received over the years, we had a nice down payment. ("Family allowance" is the former name for the Canada Child Tax Benefit, which is sort of like the Child Tax Credit in the U.S.)
I assured my parents that I could handle the landlord duties and that I could easily find four students to rent the extra rooms. We opened a joint checking account for depositing rent money and paying the mortgage, utilities, and other bills. To this, we added $2000 overdraft protection in case all the rooms weren't rented year-round or other unforeseen expenses came up.
Good Decision Gone Bad
Unfortunately, much to my parents' dismay, I thought this "house account" could be used for my own personal spending. The overdraft quickly reached the maximum and was never entirely paid the whole time we owned the house!
I'm sure it was horrifying to my mom (who was a banker) to have a child with such poor money-management skills. Luckily, all of our bills managed to get paid on time, there wasn't much tenant turnover, and we didn't wreck the house too badly. After five years, we sold the house for a modest profit.
Since the money was originally earmarked for my education, my parents allowed me to keep the sales proceeds, which I used to pay off my student loans and purchase a new house. (I still own this second house; I live in it with my wife and daughter.) My money management skills are much better now, and I've taken steps to improve my finances since then.
Teaching Real-Life Experience
Despite the recent real-estate market turmoil, I still think this — purchasing a home together — is a great idea for parents who have children moving away to attend college. Buy a house and let your child act as the landlord, managing the bills, finding tenants, collecting rent, and keeping the house properly maintained.
While it's true that I wasn't really a fiscally responsible landlord (that was a huge responsibility for a nineteen-year-old!), this experience taught me many valuable lessons.
Before all of you parents out there are scared off because you think your child will destroy the house and leave you in financial ruin, let me highlight some of the benefits of this rental property venture:
- Establishing a good credit rating for your child. As a partner in this venture, I got my name on the title of the house (co-signed by my parents). It felt pretty good to call myself a home owner at the age of nineteen, but the real benefits were in building up a credit rating at an early age.
- Keeping tabs on your investment. Buying rental property in another city can be risky when you aren't around to check on things. And hiring a property manager to look after the place can be expensive. Although our rental property was located in another city, my parents could still keep tabs on what was going on with the house since their child was acting as the live-in landlord. We shared a joint account for bills, and we could chat any time about any maintenance or vacancy issues.
- Setting up your child for success. Again I was only nineteen when we started this venture. I learned a lot during my five years at this rental property. True, some lessons were learned the hard way…but that's what life is all about — learning from our mistakes. I managed the household expenses, took care of the lawn and simple maintenance (I stress the word simple), found roommates, replaced roommates, evicted roommates, and really figured out a lot about people and how to be a good judge of character.
While I was in school I managed to work 30 hours a week in the hospitality industry. I advanced fairly quickly, using many of the skills I learned while managing this rental property. The senior administration also held a perception of me as being more responsible and professional than my peers. Whether or not that was true, it certainly helped me stand out from the crowd when it was time to be promoted.
A Creative Solution
For all of you parents out there who are thinking about saving for your child's education, remember that there are alternatives to just handing over your money and hoping they make the best decision.
Since the money my parents saved ended up being used for a down payment on our house, I still had student loans to pay off. We didn't come out any further ahead financially, but it was the residual benefits that paid off the most for me.
I know our example wasn't perfect, but I'm thankful for the opportunity my parents gave me. The experience helped develop some tangible skills that I wouldn't have learned by staying at home or living in the college dorms.
This article is about Education, Reader Stories, Relationships, Savings
Are the potential criticisms still supposed to be there in red?
Interesting story. I'm glad it worked out for you all. That was very nice of your parents.
In our town the cost of buying a student property is less than renting a dorm room (though may break even with renting a house or apartment… I haven't run the numbers recently and there's been a lot of new building). So many parents buy investment properties and allow their children to live in them. Living near these houses is usually not so bad when the owners' children are there, but the neighborhood generally crashes once unrelated students are the only folks living in it.
Where I went for undergraduate school, many of the parents did the same thing for their kids. Since the school was located in the countryside of NY state, the cost to buy a 3 bedroom house was less than $150K. If I remember correctly, room and board costs often ran about 25-30% of the total tuition cost. This made living off campus a very affordable, ideal option for some kids that were paying for their education without parental assistance. For the kids whose parents could buy them a house, I don't know if they made any money off of the investment, but they definitely saved on the room and board costs, since it was always cheaper to not be on the student meal plan.
I think the potential criticisms aren't supposed to be there. Hopefully JD doesn't sleep in today!
I don't agree with the first potential criticism, that the parents didn't get anything out of this. From my reading, they weren't really supposed to. The money to buy the house was invested throughout the children's lifetime and to be used for college expenses. They planned to buy this house for their kid long before he would reach college.
I can't really speak to the second criticism, that this plan is only for the rich, because there isn't enough information in the story. It would be nice to have some numbers; how much was invested, the cost of the home, the size of the down payment. And also very importantly, what town and what year was the home bought in.
Considering the mother was a banker, it's fair to assume the family had money. But even a rich family may not be able to afford this plan. It depends on the town where your kid goes to school.
A five bedroom house in the city I went to school in would cause at least $400k, which seems pretty out of reach no matter the family's income.
So I think it's an interesting anecdote that could be made better with a bit more information.
It's an interesting concept–if my parents had done this when I went to school, we would have made out like bandits. I started school during a huge real estate bust, and I would have been able to purchase an apartment that would have appreciated well beyond the total costs of my education, within only a few years past my graduation. But if my son were to go there, apartments have become so inflated in price, it would cost us more than his entire education (including dorm residence) just to put a down payment on a space.
8Hi everyone, thanks for your comments so far. I don't think those notes were supposed to be left in the post but since they are I feel it is necessary to address them:
How is this a win-win?
My parents had not saved nearly enough money to send me away to College for 4 years and cover all of my expenses. Rather than just using that money to try and pay for my tuition, books, rent and living expenses they chose to invest that money in a rental property so that I could live rent free while going to school.
And because I moved away from home I was able to apply for student loans to cover my expenses for school (it is difficult to get accepted for student loan subsidies if you are living under your parents roof).
It was my responsibility to ensure the other bedrooms were rented out so that the mortgage and utilities were paid each month.
After we sold the house I was able to pay off those student loans due to the small appreciation in house value and reduction in mortgage principle after 5 years.
So, the benefit to my parents was that even though they didn't meet their savings goals for sending me to College, they were able to leverage the amount that they did save into a scenario that basically achieved the same outcome of covering all of my post-secondary costs.
If we do the math quickly, let's say they saved $20,000 towards my College education, which would cost me a total of $40,000 over 4 years (including living expenses). They used that $20k as a downpayment to purchase a 5 bedroom home within walking distance of campus for $110k.
I took out student loans each year for a total of $20k. A year after finishing school we sold that house for $125k, which allowed me to pay off my student loans and even left a small amount to help go towards the purchase of a new house.
Is this only a plan for the rich?
I don't think so. It's a plan for parents who started saving for their child's education late, or hadn't saved enough. It's an alternative to just giving your child money to spend on rent, car payments, restaurants and booze.
And parents could come up with their own arrangement to split any profits with their child after selling the house. Given the current state of the real estate market in the U.S. I believe there are plenty of 5 bedroom houses available in College towns for under $150k.
I live in a college town and you can not get even a 1 bedroom condo for 150k. 5 bedroom houses = 400k minimum
Agreed. Rare would be the college town with a market of habitable $150K 5bdr houses, and no such thing in a regular town/city with a college in it. Here in Cambridge $150K would cover half a bachelor condo.
Thanks for sharing this part of your story. I think it better explains why this made sense for your parents. For me, going to school in an upper-middle class suburb in California, buying a house was super expensive and not a good choice for most people I knew. Like other commenters said, I am glad it worked out for you!
Echo, I'm not saying there may not be merits in what you and your folks did, but you've got some very fuzzy math going on.
I think at best you've swapped the interest rate for your student loans for that of a house loan, which I am assuming is lower. The trade off is that as soon as you assumed ownership of the house you started paying "the loan" as opposed to student loans which are in deferment until you leave college. Is the difference worth it? I don't know. What are the relative interest rates of a college loan vs house loan? How much interest did you or your parents pay on the house loan while you were in college? What about other costs like insurance, maintenance on the house?
The supposed "win-win" came from capital growth of that house that allowed you to pay off the student loans. This is far from a sure thing, *especially* over a short time frame like 3-4 years. In fact you and your parents were at real risk of making a significant capital loss. Your parents could have lost their initial capital and even more, then you would have been on the hook for your student loans and the house loan!
Except he wasn't paying the mortgage – his roommates were. He says he lived "rent-free". So he traded student loans, which he would've had to pay, for a mortgage, which his roommates paid.
The appreciation rate was certainly a risk – this was probably back in the days when real estate was considered a sure bet. Luckily, it worked out for them.
I got the impression that he meant "rent free" as in, not paying rent, but paying the mortgage. I don't think the mortgage payment was covered by the roommates.
Student loan payments are in deferment, but they still accrue interest during that time.
Depends on if the loans are subsidized (defer interest) or unsubsidized (don't defer interest), at least in the US.
First And Foremost,
This Was A Highly-Fascinating Post Which Truly Did Question & Delve Into Challenging The Contemporary Mindset Of Simply Providing Chilren With College Financing From A First-Person Perspective.
Secondly, As A Fellow Canadian And University Student, I Must Say That I Whole-Heartedly Encourage & Admire Your Parents For *Saving* Their Child Tax Benefit AKA "Baby Bonus" Rather Than Simply Spending It…Too Many Children Can Profit Post-Secondary Education-Wise From This Financial Bonus If Their Parents Were To Place These Payments Into Some Form Of Savings Account. (Perhaps J.D. Can Touch On This Topic Of Parents Saving Their Child/ Tax Benefits Etc. Towards A Child's Future Education Rather Than Their Current Expenses…Hmm…Or A Guest Post?)
Last But Not Least, While I Did Find This Story Intriguing (Speaking As One Who Was In The 19-Year-Old Mindset Simply Several Years Ago) I Would Personally Not Suggest This Housing Concept To Most Parents, As I Feel Many Young Adults Are Not Quite Prepared To Deal With Other Real-Life Expenses Once leaving Home (And Especially Student Loans) Never-Mind Maintaining A House. (This Could Negatively Effect The Credit Rating Of The Parent's Too — A Concept Beyond The Priorities Of Many Of My Fellow Young Students) Again, I Always Do Enjoy Reading New Suggestions & Alternative-Stories Though…
All Of The Best, Robb
This scenario is one that happens a lot in my area because it's a relatively affordable college town. However, there's a lot of run-down real estate around here as a result with resulting upkeep issues. I also know of some horror stories – one grad student friend whose parents bought him a condo expecting to turn around and sell it. 5 years later, they can't get rid of it, won't let him rent it out, and he's stuck paying the mortgage and rent at his place at his new job.
I'm a little confused. If his parents bought the place for him, who is holding the mortgage/title or deed/etc? If your friend does not own the place, he doesn't have to pay the mortgage. Granted, not paying would almost certainly ruin his relationship with his family, but you can't force someone to pay for a place they're not living in and don't have an interest in.
If he does own the place, how the heck can they stop him from renting it out? I'm not trying to be critical. I am just wondering if this is more of a real-estate and money issue or a family dynamics problem.
Plenty of Strata Corporations (Canadian version of Condo associations) have rules preventing the units being rented out to non family members. Breaking the rules can lead to weekly fines which would negate any rent and have to be settled before the Condo could be sold.
Wow – this post is horrible! These parents perpetuated their child's inability to function and called it an investment? The first time money was withdrawn for personal expenses, the joint account should have been shut down.
"Luckily, all of our bills managed to get paid on time" ??? Luck had nothing to do with it – it was the parents propping up a misbehaving adult-child.
"My parents had not saved nearly enough money to send me away to College for 4 years and cover all of my expenses." And how much did Echo save? Since when is it required that parents pay for a full ride to college for their grown, adult offspring?
Echo, you should build a grandparents suite on your house so when Boomer retires, Boomer can live with you rent-free.
Interesting article! but not sure how many parents can buy a house for their child. My education was in a different country, where education costs almost nothing, but I do see people here really struggle for education expenses. You must be from a rich family. And I am sure that $2k mistake made yourself stronger in personal finance area. Good article, even if JD introduced you as a non professional writer, you managed to do well, at least better than I write, and I am learning too
I agree with KS #10. I think this is an interesting scenario, and it sounds like you had challenges in working things out with your parents, and you all agreed to muddle through. So, good for you.
However… I really do not think that it is wise to advise other people to do this. Most savvy PF writers agree that a house is a long-term investment, and you should buy to live for the long haul, not as a pseudo-rental. In your case, what was the advantage of buying over renting? Obviously the education for you was good, but other than that?
I agree with purchasing a house for your college student! I did just that when my daughter moved half way across the U.S. to go to college. The house payment was cheaper than the dorm fees AND I got that tax write-off on as well! She rented out rooms, and had a much quieter place to study than the dorms. I also required her to work part time to help maintain herself. She lived in that house for 8 years at which time we quit claimed the property and she took her proceeds to purchase a town closer to where she worked.
I'm glad to hear from a parent who has done this before and had a good experience!
The tax deduction was another "win" for my parents that I failed to mention in the post. Thanks for bringing that up.
I'm curious if you pay taxes on the rental income, which offsets your tax benefit on the mortgage interest.
I'm not sure what the laws are Federally and in various states on rental income, but I do know that banks are getting stricter because of Federal mandates affecting them, and rental income being deposited into personal accounts is getting flagged for review.
I can see how this could be a useful teaching tool, but at the same time there's a huge amount of risk for the parents and the student.
I do think only a rich family could do this without risking financial disaster – the parents need to be able to afford to make that full mortgage payment on top of their own in case the son can't for some reason. And they need to be able to afford it for the next 30 years, in case the house depreciates or doesn't sell.
It seems clear that this family could do that, so in their case it was a great idea and worked out well for them. Like others have pointed out, the particulars of the college town also made a huge difference. Where I went to school (Austin and Chicago) a 5 bedroom house near campus would cost half a million at least. Even then, I did know of students whose parents bought them a house (I remember one guy who had 8 housemates).
It's tough to generalize and say this is only a plan for the rich. It really depends on the market where you're buying. My family certainly isn't rich, and the house we bought cost $110k. We could have purchased a "nicer" 3 bedroom home for $150k, but liked the idea of being closer to the University and having more bedrooms to potentially rent out.
We did a lot of research on the housing market and in this case we felt that the risks were reduced due to the very low vacancy rates. It was never really an issue for me to find tenants, although the turnover was fairly high.
I don't think we could have shared this purchase with another family though, so I agree with you on the potential problems that may arise in that scenario.
When my son was studying Engineering (a 5-yr degree at the university he was at), we were offered the opportunity at the end of his second year to go together with other parents and share buying a house. We thought about it a little bit and then realized owning a house in another city just didn't appeal to us (especially sharing–who would do what work on it?). Only one family ended up buying one and their son had to skip (Engineering) classes when they needed a plumber, furnace repairman, etc. to come out. He also had to deal with finding tenants (not always easy), making sure the utilities were paid, etc. I'm so glad we didn't add that stress to our son. 4-5 years isn't enough time for a real estate investment, in my opinion (at least, not in most places). Houses rise and fall in value and aren't short-term investments.
Okay, quick question: Is Robb an only child? I could see this arrangement creating a real problem in families where there is more than one child. My siblings and I lived quite far apart in university, but my parents would never dream of giving one of us a financial advantage over the others. Any thoughts?
In the post I mention that my brother chose to stay at home and go to school in our home town. He actually played football for our home town University.
My parents saved equal amounts for both of us, so my brother received the money to cover his education expenses.
Good point about equitable distribution for your kids though.
@Echo Thanks for the response I actually meant families where two or more children moved away from home. Saving equal amounts for each child is one thing, but how would that work managing two mortgages? (Possibly in addition to one's own?)
I don't have kids yet, but this sounds like an interesting idea to start planning for early on.
My husband bought a condo when he was entered grad school, and his parents co-signed the loan (although never had to pay the mortgage – it was a repo at the very bottom of the market, so it was affordable on a grad stipend). A couple of years later, his younger sister transferred to the same university as an undergrad, and he had a roommate vacancy. She (i.e. their parents) paid a very affordable rent — much less than the going rate in town by then. (I think my in-laws also appreciated having an older brother there to keep an eye on her!) So it can work under some circumstances.
Your parents sound like very trusting people but, then again, you sound like you were quite trustworthy at 19 too.
Having been in the landlord business, I would not follow this same route. The potential for nightmares is too high for me personally and you were fortunate, by the sounds of things, to have not had too many problems with roommates.
My kids are all at college and my primary focus for them ~ and their focus too ~ is to graduate with highest honors possible. To me, that means focusing on school with a part time job to bring in money to help with rent as needed.
One of my kids rents a studio apartment with a fellow student friend right across the street from campus. When the lease is up in August, we plan to rent a 2 bedroom unit in the same building with 5 roommates. That will cut my rent expenses down to zero. My kid earns enough from a part time job to pay the small balance of rent. I want this particular kid to learn money management skills and this seems like a fair way to do it. Our student loan balance is very small.
Another of my kids was in the army reserves and, now, Physician Assistant school and rent is paid for by the US government. He spent over a year in Iraq. Student loan balance zero.
Another kid is RA on the college housing block and the single room is paid for. Student loan balance zero.
There's more than one way to skin the proverbial cat but buying a rental (read: animal) house for my kid to play landlord gives me the shivers!!
Kudos to you and your parents for making it work though
Yes, this was definitely an unorthodox approach and I certainly don't believe that it's for everyone. It was an interesting experience for both me and my parents.
Look at us now, my mom and I co-author a personal finance blog!
My parents offered to buy me a condo (well, buy a condo with me, and I'd have to pay back the downpayment because they were going to use a HELOC). This was while I was in grad school. I am glad they didn't.
I have seen my classmates have both good and bad experiences being a landlord. I really think it depends on the town. Where I went to college, houses were really cheap. Almost everyone lived on campus, so there were no student ghettos. A friend managed to get a house a block from school for an affordable amount, and she enjoyed being a landlord. She was able to use the profits to buy a better house later.
On the other hand, while I was in grad school, I was in a larger and trendy city. A friend bought a cheap house and flipped it with her parents (lots of $$ in — her parents are house flippers). Being a landlord was okay, but she had to take a loss to finally sell the house after the crash of real estate.
Honestly, it could go either way. I'd caution parent and student to be clear about expectations (for example, the first personal withdrawal from that joint account would generate a swift conversation). And I'd also work hard to be sure the house stays in good condition and does not degenerate into crummy student housing that costs a fortune to fix up for a family. And, as a final personal note, be sure to buy a house with good insulation if you're buying in the north. I lived in a student ghetto house one year. Plastic on the windows to save energy, and I realized I could still feel the breeze through the wall. Water froze on the inside of my walls. I bailed out of that house ASAP.
Like you said, this situation can work well for some, and for others it can be a bit of a nightmare. You need to know who to trust and then do your research on the housing market.
How is this a win for your parents? It's a win for you, but what did they get out of it? Also, this is a plan for the rich. How many people can afford to buy a rental property like this?
I cosign a 2 bedroom condo when my brother worked on his PHD. He rented out one room and that was enough to cover mortgage. He sold the place for a little profit after 5 years. It worked out very well.
This was in Texas so the condo was affordable back then at around 60k.
At $60k that sounds like a pretty sweet deal!
An experience like this is invaluable! I am sure you learned a lot from it. It gave you hands experience and probably helped to make yur judgment more mature. That is how you distinguished yourself from your peers. My children were involved in my businesses which included a fast food restaurant and income property (apartments & shopping center).
Why do people think Robb's family was rich?
The property was just over $100k – you need a down payment and a willingness to take some risk.
That's not the same thing as being rich.
I think that is still out of reach for many families, and even more out of reach if the kid attends college in a town with pricey real estate.
I know my family would have been in no shape to take on a project like this. The only way I would have considered it (and figured out the numbers, how long I'd take to graduate, how much I would need to work, etc) is if I knew I wanted to stay in the area after graduation. Now I'm in professional school and I KNOW I don't want to stay anywhere near hear (sorry Essex County, you're justnot that lovely), so the conversation is moot on that point alone.
One thing to keep in mind when figuring the math in this case is that if he went to school in Canada (which he may well be since he mentions the Canada Child Tax Benefit), he's not pay 40-50k in tuition costs, more like 5-6k.
Tuition costs where I went to school (yes, in Canada) were about $400 per class. 10 classes per year = $4000 x 4 years = $16k
Books were another $1k per year.
@ Kate, it depends on the program and the school. Robb's tuition costs were obviously lower because he went to school several years ago (at least). Tuition has gone up significantly at some schools, and many have re-regulated tuition (i.e. a science, computers or business degree might cost you more than an arts degree).
Still, we do get off easy compared to the States, but Americans seem to have more money from scholarships and bursaries than we do so maybe it balances out?
wow, i had no idea the numbers were so different! thanks for educating me about that.
You need some degree of wealth — at least on paper — to qualify for a second mortgage…
Hi- I really liked this article! I wish I had thought of saving the child-tax credit for both of my sons to help fund college or to purchase a rental property for them to live in and help manage in college.
I agree that parents who partner with their children to help them learn life lessons are doing their child a favor.
Robb, thanks for an intriguing idea. I"m going to suggest this to my sons to consider as another way to save and plan for the future- before they start having children
Thanks Michele, I don't know if I will do the same for my daughter when she is at that age but I will definitely consider it. In the meantime, yes I am saving the Child Tax Credit towards her education.
In university, I lived in a house owned by an acquaintance's parents and it was terribly run. Because we shared a bathroom, a kitchen, and a living room with the landlord's daughter, neither party was subject to the Landlords and Tenants Act. This ended up being both good and bad for us – bad because there was absolutely no maintenance and good because we were able to terminate our lease with two days notice and not lose any money.
Due to that situation, I would never consider buying a house for my child to act as a landlord during university.
Given that housing and meal expenses comprise a significant percentage of student loans out there it is not a bad idea for people to consider this as a reasonable option.
While I commend you on a job well done with your investments (house and education), I have to say I think this is a best case scenario. I don't think this is something people should try with their kid unless he/she seems very responsible to begin with.
My parents did the same thing with my sister in college, but without a joint account. They still ended up paying lots of money for her credit card debt when she graduated eight years later. Luckily, the house wasn't too badly taken care of and my parents were able to sell it.
Sounds like a great idea that has high upside, but severe downsides. If your child is bad with money, several bad things could happen:
1. Child gets bad credit before graduating college
2. Parents may be on the hook for payments
3. If parents don't have the funds, their credit could get a hit
Personally, I would have liked the experience, and being a Finance major, I hope I would be able to manage money in college.
I'm glad it worked out for the author. Personally I wouldn't risk it event though I think rentals are a good investment otherwise.
This might work out in some areas but finding college towns where the numbers work is not easy. There are a few. I know one town where a 4-5 Bed house goes for $150-$175k range and rents would easily cover all your bills. But many cities it would be prohibitively expensive to buy housing.
Buying rental property short term carries a lot of risks. First you have the expense of closing a mortgage. Then you have the cost of paying a realtor to sell it. In a short period of time you may lose money unless you're banking on the property appreciating. Not a safe bet nowadays. Thats not even mentioning the other risks of being a landlord. I also wouldn't assume you can rent all your rooms out 12 months of the year, many college towns turn into ghost towns in the summer months. There can be some tax benefits from depreciation but those are paid back in taxes when you sell. Worst case the property goes down in value and you are unable to sell it then you are left being a long distance landlord in an investment thats losing money.
My friend's parents did this for her older sister, and they had to budget very carefully because they either had to charge the renters for a full year (even if they only lived there eight months) or were often left without renters in the summer months.
We just did this for our oldest. She is planning on attending MSU. So we found a foreclosed home three miles from campus, 1400 square feet and purchased it for 17m two years ago. While she is attending the local community college, we have been slowly updating the home. No, we are not rich, just budget our funds tightly. But I figured if it was less then what room & board would cost us, we would be ahead. Plus whatever we get for renting the other 2 rooms. By the time she is done with vet school, we will turn around and sell it. It depends on the market if this is feasible for every family.
Sounds like a great plan Brigitte, good luck!
"purchased it for 17m two years ago"
Did you maybe mean 17k as in $17,000?
Yes sorry, the house was $17,000. I have updated the roof, the 2 bathrooms and the kitchen. This past fall, I install a furnace & water heater. This has been all with cash as I saved up for the next step. So no mortgage.
Last year my husband got a 12 month contract in Lansing so we used the hse M – Th and came home on the weekends. I still need to fix a room upstairs, siding(really optional)and the garage. But as my cash flow allows.
We had a family friend do this, but all three of their kids went to college in the same beachy town. It is now a vacation home, about four hours from their permanent home, and saved dorm costs for a cumulative 12 years while also bringing in roommate income (it's basically paid for itself).
I think this type of arrangement is a terrifically creative way to avoid racking up room and board debt.
I love this idea. Since my husband and I live in Houston, TX, we could actually do something like this if we ever have a kid and he/she goes to college. The houses around campus are $150k-$250k and we could definitely have enough for a good downpayment and the first year's tuition…then it would be their responsibility to save the profit between the mortgage and the total rental income to use for years 2 and on…
Thanks for the idea!
We live near a college town and this is quite common. Parents buy for four years and sell it to the next parents. The houses are well within range of this being possible for regular middle class couples.
@Samantha #71
Yes, my roommates were paying the mortgage. 4 roommates at $300 rent per month each covered mortgage and utilities for that property.
I lived there without paying any rent or utilities, with the exception of a few months during one summer where I only had 2 roommates.
Graduating college debt-free should be the goal of every student (and a tremendous gift from their parents). How do you do it? It might involve changing expectations about what college is, but in general:
- Save first, reduce expenses through scholarships or living at home, then pay as you go. Size your education to what you can afford doing that.
- Look for other alternatives like work-study programs or employer-sponsored tuition grants.
It was interesting reading this post by my son and all the comments. I'd like to clarify some points:
-We definitely are not rich. I'd classify us as middle class only.
-Buying the house seemed like a better alternative at the time to living in res. Mortgage payments have been mentioned, but you don't live anywhere away from home for free, whether res or a rental.
-I never would have put my credit worthiness in jeopardy. Working in a bank I was able to keep tabs on what was going on with the account. I'm sure the house was only cleaned when I came to visit. I threatened and he promised – and it worked out.
-I made some good investments and just (and I mean Just) barely rescued the money from the "Asian Flu" crisis which wiped out a lot of mutual funds. Most of this was used for the down payment.
-We assumed an already existing mortgage so we didn't have to qualify for two mortgages.
-Remember this was back in 1998 well before the housing boom, especially in that town. With an original approx. $12,000 down payment we netted (after legal, real estate etc fees) just under $36,000 when we sold in 2003
-Would I do this today? Most probably not.
I agree that this could be a really great way to teach college kids about managing money. It also helps them begin to understand the true cost of things in the "real world".
I had a friend who used this same strategy with her parents but ended up getting burned; they bought a nice four bedroom house for about $80k and invested around $15k in fixing the basement and a few other things. They did all this on an ARM loan with the first 4 years in interest-only payments, figuring that this way she'd have three tenants paying the much smaller interest payment and she'd be able to cash out with a tidy profit before the she had to start paying back on the principle. Unfortunately, all these plans were made and the house was bought in 2006, when real estate was still looking like a rosy investment. Then the bubble burst and now her house is worth much less than the loan she took to buy and improve it. Her formerly tiny interest payments have become large principal and interest payments, and the only way out looks like a big loss. It didn't sound like a bad plan in the beginning, but the ending really goes to show how risky it can be…
I think this will definitely vary from city to city as well as what the housing market is doing right now.
After the huge housing bust a few years ago, now would be a GREAT time to do this.
On the other hand, anyone who bought a house in 2006 or 2007 (sorry Hanna!) would have been burned big time.
It is so incredibly hard for me to relate to stories like this, especially ones that reference how "my parents hadn't saved up enough money for me to go to college". I never, ever had any hope or expectation that my parents were saving for me to go to college, and because of that I worked hard to get good grades, do tons of extra-curricular activities, and every summer from the age of 14 (in between 8th and 9th grade) I worked more than full time to buy basic necessities for school like books, supplies, clothes, and to pay for any expenses incurred by my activities such as cheerleading uniforms. I also bought my first car.
This was not a win-win for you and your parents. This was a win for you, and I'm glad it worked out. I just recently turned 28 and I know I sound like a curmudgeon about this but if you voluntarily picked up, left the offer of free rent in your parent's home, and went to another state I fail to see why your parents felt any obligation to do this for you. This is purely a philosophical difference in opinion, of course, and I realize I may be alone in being completely confused at what I see to be a strange and unhealthy expectation that parents should underwrite whatever college experience a child chooses to have.
I received a full scholarship, but if I had not I had already planned on attending a local community college and moving in with my father and paying him rent while I worked full time and went to school. Even with the full scholarship, I worked full time. You mention working 30 hours a week, having no rent, and using student loans to pay for school- I'm curious to know where your earnings from that nearly full time job went? That seems to be a financial aspect left out of the story, and I'm interested to know if you invested it, saved it, etc.
I'm also a bit appalled that you would simply help yourself to 2,000 of overdraft protection, although the "misunderstanding" may have been the fault of your parents for not clearly explaining what the money was for. I'm not trying to come off harsh, please read my tone as one of being just kind of shocked and confused, and having no way to relate to family dynamics/expectations of financial support.
I'm not sure what is so shocking and confusing about parents wanting to support their children's education.
Many parents have savings goals for their children to attend University. I didn't hope, and certainly didnt expect that my parents would help pay for my education.
How does choosing to attend University in a different city change the fact that my parents had put away money for our education every month for over a decade?
They didn't take it out of their retirement account, it was ear-marked for our education all along.
I didn't expect everyone to relate to the story because it was not the typical way to help put your kid through school, and it's not without risk.
Judging by all of the comments, some people are already doing this, others are thinking about doing this, and many would never ever consider doing this.
It's not shocking or confusing to me that people put away money for their children to go to college- but to me that is pure icing on the cake of all the other things one's parents provide. I'm shocked in general (not just in this instance, as I may not have explained very well) that underwriting the education of one's offspring has come to be an expectation, with what seems to be little to no boundaries or limits.
My point about going out of state was that, had you stayed *in* state, as you stated your sibling did, your parents would not have needed to purchase a home for you, because you could have lived at home, perhaps you could have gone to a community college the first two years and saved up, thus stretching the money they had saved and the money you were earning further.
As I thought I made clear in my original comment, I realize this is just a difference of opinion. I'm glad it worked out for you and your parents, and I'm not making a unilateral value judgment on your respective actions. I'm simply saying that I'm often surprised at the "blank check, anything goes, whatever my kid wants to do about college I'll go along with" attitude that many parents take in their approach to dealing with funding college.
I realize my curiosity about what you did with the money you were earning, and questioning the use of the 2,000 overdraft, may have been too prying and uncomfortable for you to answer and thus I apologize. I was just trying to wrap my head around the full financial picture, and it wasn't until I started typing up my comment that I realized it hadn't been addressed in the original article.
My entire comment was more of a tangent on the way paying for college for one's children can seem like a pretty bad deal for the parents, who all too often seem to have expectations put on them of supporting whatever the child wishes to do. All too often I hear "well, I was offered a full scholarship in my home state, but I wanted to go away to an Ivy League school to get my English degree, so I chose to take out loans to pay for out of state tuition and a dorm and my parents paid for half of it". Some variation on that theme. To me, part of being a good, frugal example to one's children is stepping in and saying "um, I'm not paying for you to go off to another state if you can get a good education here for much cheaper and you can be more personally responsible for it".
Step one: be born to parents who can afford to save or invest all their child tax credits…
I have a meta-question. There is an assumption behind this post, and most people accept it, that it is the obligation of the parents to save money for their child's college education. I work with many people who also assume that they will pay for their child's college education (also their cars, but I have no question that *that* is unnecessary).
I paid for my own education, and I feel like I appreciated it much more than other students. I feel like I have more pride in myself than I would if I had a free ride. I internally debate over whether or not I should be responsible for paying for my child's college education. I know that I was in that situation because my parents couldn't afford to help me. But what if they could have afforded to? Is it morally correct to pay for a kid to go to college or can it be said that you have a moral obligation to let them earn their own adult education? I'd like to see this as perhaps a question to the readers. What do others think about this?
I agree with you, Lindsay, about the assumption behind this post. You expressed yourself better than I did up above, in my comments and subsequent conversation with Echo.
I also had no expectation that my parents would pay for college. That motivated me to work harder in school to graduate valedictorian so that I could get a scholarship. It motivated me to take on many extra-curricular activities during the school year. Due to a lack of funds, I began working every summer from 8th grade on to pay for school supplies, clothes, and all costs associated with extra-curriculars.
When I went to college, I worked full time and went to school full time, yet I often had more free time than my friends who only went to school because I was forced to manage it and schedule it in. I had an active social life, 3 jobs totaling about 45 hours a week, and I maintained the GPA required for scholarship. Again, because I knew I had to graduate within 4 years or I'd have to pay out of pocket, I did. Whereas many of my acquaintances who had parents paying didn't graduate for 5 or 6 years.
As I said above, to Echo, I suppose I can understand a certain amount of help that is agreed to prior. As in, the parents say "here's what we'll do, here's what you need to do". What I can't STAND, however, is the situation I described above- the expectation that a parent just gives a blank check to underwrite whatever harebrained plans his/her child has. There is an incredibly large difference between saying "we'll let you live here rent free while you work and go to school, as long as it's a public, in state school, and we expect you to fight for scholarships" and saying "sure, flit off to Harvard, states away, and get an English degree while we co-sign the loans and take out a second mortgage".
It's the "anything goes and parents have to pony up the cash or else they're crappy parents who aren't preparing their kids for life" mentality that bugs me the most.
I agree with you that the blank cheque approach is wrong, there definitely needs to be some guidelines in place. In our case, the money my parents saved was for our post-secondary education and we wouldn't have received a penny had we not gone to school.
My situation was a bit different since I left home, but that just changed the delivery method, not the intentions.
I think you are making an incorrect assumption about me leaving home to go to school.
First of all, I live in Canada, not the U.S. All of our schools are public. I didn't "leave State", I moved 2 hours south of Calgary to attend a different University.
The University I went to was probably a bit cheaper as far as tuition goes.
I understand your point about leaving home to go to a more expensive school like Harvard and expecting the same parental support, but I just wanted to clarify that wasn't the case in our situation.
Ironically, I work now for the same University that I attended back then and, as an employee benefit, our kids get free tuition if they attend school here (if I'm still working there in 16 years).
If my daughter decided to go to school elsewhere it would definitely impact the amount of financial support we could give to her.
Echo, I'm sorry you feel I'm making assumptions about you, that was not my intent with anything I said to Lindsay in this thread. I know I referenced our conversation above, but this entire comment thread and my response to Lindsay was no longer about your specific situation. It was, as she said, about the assumption behind the post, which is that parents pay for college (at all, in part, in full, however that help may look). Any examples I may have used here were not meant to be construed as any kind of assumption about your parent's approach. As I said, she expressed herself far better than I did when she questioned the underlying philosophy behind taking such action in the first place, and the expectations placed on parents when it comes to financing the education of their children.
I am very sorry for overlooking the hyperlink in parentheses referencing the fact that the Family Allowance is Canadian. By overlooking that I certainly did make an incorrect assumption that this story was based in the US.
There is a very similar story here, except that the person is from Alabama.


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Leading UAE Firms Announce Support of Second Dubai International Film Festival
Sun Nov 27,2005
Dubai, November 27, 2005 – Some of the UAE's leading businesses and corporations today pledged their support for the second Dubai International Film Festival, signing on as founding sponsors of the high-profile event scheduled for December 11 – 17, 2005. The top tier of sponsors now represents some of the fastest-growing industries and firms in the nation, with Dubai Duty Free, Emirates Airline and Madinat Jumeirah – The Arabian Resort returning as founding Festival sponsors, and the addition of Dubai Properties and telecommunications giant Etisalat. Each organization has pledged its full support to the Festival. The Festival, which aims to bring the best of world cinema to Dubai as well as act as a showcase of Arab cinema to the world, has grown tremendously from its inaugural year, with an increase of more than 30 percent in the number of films alone. Next month's Festival is also expected to top DIFF 2004's high number of celebrity attendees from the American, European, Arab and Asian film industries. Festival Director and CEO Neil Stephenson said the solidarity shown by the five headline sponsors will go a long way in building a better festival for the community and increasing Dubai and the UAE's profile on the world stage. "Dubai and the UAE have a long-standing tradition of creating and building the best and the brightest in everything they do, and today we find ourselves in the company of the best and brightest in their respective industries," Stephenson said. "We are proud to join hands with these industry leaders, whose vision for the future of this emirate and this nation matches our own." The sponsors' renewed participation is a mark of their confidence in the Festival, Stephenson added. Although Etisalat's subsidiary E*Vision and the Dubai Holding-operated Dubai Media City were involved in different capacities in the inaugural Festival, Dubai Duty Free, Emirates and the Madinat Jumeirah retain their roles as top sponsors. "Any worthwhile film festival takes a few years to establish a strong foundation, and it is in that spirit that we welcome these five community leaders onboard as our founding sponsors," Stephenson said. "The logistical, financial and experiential support and goodwill they have extended to us are vital to our progress, and we look forward to working together as partners for many years to come." Management representatives from the five top-tier sponsors also shared their views on the new relationship. Colm McLoughlin, Managing Director of Dubai Duty Free, the third-largest duty free operation in the world, said the Dubai Film Festival gives a needed boost to both the local art and culture scene as well as providing a strong platform for talent in the region. "Our relationship with the Dubai Film Festival is a meeting of like-minded, world-class institutions, each with the potential to change perceptions and break new ground in this region," McLoughlin said. "We are happy to be associated with the Festival as it enters its second year." Dubai Properties, one of the youngest and most successful property specialists in the nation and the developer behind such iconic projects as Business Bay and the Jumeirah Beach Residence, said the company's involvement with DIFF was part of its investment in the community. "We aim to give nothing but the best to our stakeholders, and the Dubai International Film Festival fits in with that vision," said Nizar Khoury, Chief Marketing Officer of Dubai Properties. Ghaith Al Ghaith, Executive Vice President, Commercial Operations Worldwide at Emirates, one of the fastest-growing international airlines in the world, echoed many of these sentiments. "The relationship between Emirates and the Dubai Film Festival is a meeting of equals, and a symbiotic and mutually beneficial one," Al Ghaith said. "We have a shared purpose of bringing the world to Dubai and taking Dubai to the world; and are pleased to renew our relationship with the Festival after our positive experiences last year." From telecom giant Emirates Telecommunications Corporation \"Etisalat\", Mohammed Hassan Omran, Chairman and CEO, said the corporation, which has been actively associated with social activities that help raise the status of the UAE regionally and internationally, was honored to have a larger role in bringing the Festival to the local community. "Etisalat is honored to have a larger role in bringing the international film festival to the UAE," said Omran. "We believe in the festival's mission of bridging the cultural gap between the East and the West. Moreover, we are proud to support an event which will improve the understanding of the Arab world, especially with the festival being a successful platform that showcases the tremendous cultural potential within our country." Serge Zaalof, general manager of luxury Arabian resort and Festival epicenter Madinat Jumeirah, congratulated the DIFF management team for improving an already stellar framework. "As a major sponsor of the Dubai Film Festival for the second consecutive year, Madinat Jumeirah – The Arabian Resort is delighted to be involved in this event which celebrates art, culture and international understanding on a global level. We have planned some unique and exciting promotions that will be taking place throughout the resort for movie enthusiasts and the rest of the community visiting Madinat Jumeirah during the Film Festival. DIFF has become a highly anticipated event in Dubai and is proving to be popular internationally. We are looking forward to our involvement this year and once again celebrating the international film industry," Zaalof said. The second Dubai International Film Festival will be held between December 11 and 17, 2005, and will feature approximately 100 films including features, retrospectives and short films. DIFF 2005 is divided into 12 distinct programs - including five brand new additions - each focusing on a particular category of film.


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If you prefer your accommodation on the rather grand scale, Fiesta Americana Grand Guadalajara Country Club could be right up your street. Rated with 4 stars, this accommodation is certainly higher than average.
Common areas including a restaurant, a bar/lounge, and even a coffee shop/café, are accessible at Fiesta Americana Grand Guadalajara Country Club. A spa/wellness center, available at the hotel, is a recommended addition to your itinerary. Services you can enjoy during your stay are, for example, a baby-sitting service, an express check-in/out service and a ski storage. Not only leisure guests are welcome here; a conference space on site shows this hotel has conveniences for the business guests too. Take your pick from 208 rooms found here. With public transportation being a little on the tricky side, a paid airport shuttle bus can prove to be a convenient addition here. If you're wondering where you should leave your car, rest assured; there is a paid valet parking service available.
Air conditioned rooms are available at Fiesta Americana Grand Guadalajara Country Club. A housekeeping service is one of the convenient services offered when you stay in one of the rooms of this accommodation. Internet is provided via wireless high-speed Internet access (complimentary). You find a coffee/tea maker in the rooms here.
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Book Discussion on Invisible Ink: Spycraft of the American Revolution
John Nagy, founding member of the American Revolution Round Table of Philadelphia, presents a history of espionage during the Revolutionary… read more
John Nagy, founding member of the American Revolution Round Table of Philadelphia, presents a history of espionage during the Revolutionary War. Mr. Nagy explores the spy efforts used by the British and the Continental Army that ranged from hidden compartments in hollowed bullets to dictionary codes and musical notation. The author recounts that American commander-in-chief George Washington was very interested in spycraft and counter-intelligence and maintained a large network of spies. John Nagy discussed his book at the Fraunces Tavern Museum in New York City. close
*The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.
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Hack in Action
Lieutenant Governor Tim Murray is exactly the kind of politician Deval Patrick railed against four years ago. He's also the reason Patrick may win again in November.
Some of this cash may be left in the bank after November, at which point it could be used to finance higher aspirations. Murray has raised more than $3 million since taking office, stratospheric receipts for a lieutenant governor. On a single day in July, which happened to mark the eve of a bill-signing orgy that ushered in major policy changes, Murray banked more than $38,000.
No one has ever run for lieutenant governor regarding it as a final destination. Murray is neither flagrant nor shy about his electoral ambitions. He is considering running for the U.S. Senate in 2012 but more likely he'll run for the governor's seat in 2014 — assuming, of course, that his current boss wins this November.
It's actually the race after this year's that will prove the toughest for him. If Murray is to advance, to whichever office, in whichever year, it will not be on charisma or outsize personality but doggedness, running a campaign oiled by the thousands of favors turned and phone calls returned. That's the kind of campaign politicians used to run, and perhaps the only kind Murray can. He'll somehow need to convey to voters that an insider can sometimes be more than a cynical bureaucrat, that a professional politician can be (gasp) good for politics — a lesson even Deval Patrick has come to appreciate.


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The Christmas spirit may be easing the bitter feud between Courtney Love and Frances Bean Cobain , her estranged daughter by late Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain . On Tuesday, 20-year-old Francis reached out to her mother on via Twitter , writing, "@Courtney merry Christmas kooksmcgee."
Mom was overjoyed and replied to Frances, "That was best Christmas gift ever. proudest mama in the world thank you Bean. means the world to me." She added, "That tweet was the best gift ever, its all I need even if its a dammed social network. Miss that little head of yours. That beautiful little head, and those long legs."
Three years ago Courtney lost at least temporary legal guardianship of Frances and at the time TMZ reported that a judge issued a restraining order prohibiting Courtney from contacting her then-17-year-old daughter, although the website reported the documents were filed under seal. Since then mother and daughter have been involved in a series of public feuds, including one in which Frances blamed Courtney for the death of her dog and cat.
Copyright 2012 ABC News Radio


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Sat Radio Merger: One Step Closer
The proposed merger of XM and Sirius has passed the Department of Justice gauntlet. This was one hurdle that was uncertain for the deal, but the DOJ decided that allowing the merger would not lessen competition in the media landscape.
Naturally, the opponents to the deal are all crying about the decision and repeating the same claims about legalized monopoly, the satcasters defiance of existing rules, the expectation that the merged company will raise its subscription rates (why is that a concern to terrestrial broadcasters?) and more. The DOJ doesn't see it that way, and neither do I.
The next step in the process is the visit the FCC. From what I see, the unbiased parties believe that the FCC will agree with the DOJ, although there will likely be some restrictions and conditions imposed on the deal. Will the merged entity be required to surrender some of its spectrum? I doubt it. Will the combined service radio be required to include HD Radio? Possibly. If so, that's a win for that technology.
Now I wonder how the opponents, who have spent huge sums to publicize their opposition, will justify the cost of their efforts to their constituents.
With less than 10 days left in the first quarter of 2008, FCC Chairman Kevin Martin stated that he doubts the FCC will complete its review of the proposal before the end of the quarter. That's an easy bet. I'm sure the pressure will increase to have a ruling by the end of the second quarter. The FCC will move carefully, and will receive many visits from the lobbyists before this decision is made.
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Action Alert from Wisconsin Network for Immigrant and Refugee Rights
WCADV is part of the Wisconsin Network for Immigrant and Refugee Rights (WNIRR). There are many similarities between the victory of achieving a strong VAWA reauthorization and the hopefully successful push for comprehensive immigration reform. In fact, protections for immigrant victims of domestic violence were a source of contention in Congress during the reauthorization process. WINRR just sent this action alert drawing the connections between VAWA and comprehensive immigration reform and asking folks to express their disappointment with Sen. Johnson for his NO vote on VAWA. Please see below and take action today.
Action Item:
1. Call Senator Johnson at (202) 224-5323
2. My name is (____) and I am a constituent from (City). I am calling to express my disappointment with Senator Johnson's vote on VAWA. Senator Johnson wanted a bill that would fail to protect all victims of domestic violence specifically undocumented, and indigenous women and the LGBT community. As our senator we are calling on you to provide good leadership for an immigration reform bill with a path to citizenship that treats Wisconsin's immigrant families with dignity.
Have a few extra minutes to spare?
Call Congressman Ryan to applaud his decision on VAWA (608) 752-4050
My name is (____) and I am a constituent from (City). I am calling thank you for voting in favor of the Violence Against Women's Act which protects undocumented women along with indigenous and LGBT communities. Please continue to provide good leadership on an immigration reform bill with a path to citizenship that treats Wisconsin's immigrant families with dignity.
Selected Resources
Voting Guide for Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault Victim Advocates
This guide is meant to help advocates assist their clients with the voting process. With the passage of the Wisconsin photo ID voting law, there is a lot of confusion about who can vote and how they can vote. The guide explains how survivors can register to vote and ensure they have the proper documentation to vote. In this volatile political climate and budgetary climate, we need survivors' voices and participation at the ballot box now more than ever.
Hope. Vision. Future. A Plan for Providing Services to Domestic Violence Victims in Wisconsin
The Wisconsin Coalition Against Domestic Violence and the Governor's Council on Domestic Abuse has created a long-range plan for serving Domestic Abuse victims. This document includes an overview of Wisconsin Domestic Abuse Programs, including statistics, services, populations served, and a financial picture. Recommendations address the issues of Economic Justice, Financial Self- Sufficiency, Housing, Legal assistance and Primary Prevention.
2011-2012 Legislative Agenda
WCADV and WCASA Milwaukee Sick Pay Brief
Domestic and sexual violence take a tremendous toll on public health and safety in Milwaukee. This brief, filed by WCADV and WCASA, supports the Milwaukee Paid Sick Days Ordinance which permits victims paid leave to obtain services from these organizations.
2013-2014 Legislative Agenda
Changes to Wisconsin Unemployment Insurance for DV Victims - Dec 2009
WCADV Policy Development Coordinator, Tony Gibart, offers the following summary of how Wisconsin unemployment statutes have changed in response to The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA).
DCF Brochure about Domestic Violence and W-2
This brochure from the Department of Children and Families explains some of the resources and protections available to W-2 participants who are or were victims of domestic violence. It is to be given to all W-2 applicants and participants. Hmong and Spanish versions are also available.
Fact Sheets Related to Brookfield Shooting
These two fact sheets cover topics that were implicated by the shootings at a Brookfield, Wisconsin salon on Sunday, October 21, 2012. They address (1) domestic violence and the workplace and (2) restraining orders and firearm surrender.


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