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Why I Drive a 13-Year-Old Car
Published on - January 21st, 2009 (by J.D. Roth)
This is a guest post from Joel Berry.
I recently had a talk with a friend about why I haven't purchased a new car. He can't understand why I still drive a 1995 Geo Prizm. I can afford to buy a new car, but I choose not to. The fact is, driving an older car saves me money!
To prove my point, I ran some numbers. I was surprised by how much money I've saved by driving this car for so long.
Used vs. new
I bought my Geo Prizm in 1995 with 5,000 miles on it. It now has 140,000 miles on it and still runs fine. I paid off the car in 1999. It is now 2008. I haven't had a car payment in nine years.
How much has this saved? Our payments for this car were $250 a month. Over nine years, I've gone 108 months without making a payment. At $250 a month, that's a savings of $27,000.
Over the lifetime of the car, I've spent less than $2000 in repairs. Subtracting this from my savings still leaves me with $25,000 extra over buying a new car right after the Prizm was paid off.
Using past history as a guide, I can assume that my car will need more repair as time goes on. The most recent repair cost me $1,000. Let's assume the worst and say I would spend $1,000 a year for every year that I keep the car from this point forward. Now, let's compare that to the cost of buying a new car.
Assume that I could buy a newer car for about the same $250 payments I had on my Prizm. (I think that number is a little low, but let's just assume.) That means my annual cost for a new car would be $3000. If we figure that I'll spend $1000 a year repairing the Prizm, it still saves me $2000 a year over buying a new car. If I were able to keep the car for four more years, that would add $8000 to the $25,000 I've already saved.
I will have basically saved $33,000 by driving my old car for a total of 17 years.
Other savings
But wait! That's not all! I've also saved money in several other ways not accounted for in the numbers above. Some examples:
- Cheaper insurance
- No down payment
- I've freed up money so that I didn't have to take on as much debt for other expenses
I've also kept the Prizm long enough that the items I did have to replace early on for the car are now covered by a lifetime warranty. Any time my starter, alternator, struts, or brake pads wear out, I can get replacement parts for free from Autozone. I can fix the car for just the cost of labor, or fix them myself.
There are some drawbacks to having an older car. I once had to have the car towed, and then was without a vehicle for five days while it was being repaired. I also spent a few weekends doing work on the car myself in order to keep costs down. The car is starting to rust. And, of course, it no longer has that new car smell.
I didn't include the cost of oil changes or tires in the numbers for repairs. I figured this was normal wear-and-tear that would have occurred no matter which car I drove.
My goal is to drive the Geo Prizm for another four years. I am going to put away $300 a month. (I'm putting away $300 instead of $250 because the price of cars has gone up since 1995.) I'm putting this money in an ING Direct account to use for car repairs and a down payment on another used car. If this works out, I should have $10,400 set aside for a down payment on my next car, and will have spent an additional $4000 in maintenance for my current car.
I realize this might not work for everybody. And who knows? My next car might not be as good as the Prizm has been. But numbers like these are why I have opted not to buy a new car yet. I have better things to do with my money than to keep up with the Joneses.
J.D.'s note: I think Joel's story is awesome. Though I complain incessantly about how much I want a new Mini Cooper, the fact is I'm following Joel's plan, too. I'll drive my Ford Focus into the ground. This story reminds me of Dave Ramsey's Drive Free, Retire Rich. Photo by Jami Dwyer.
Great post! If there's something that you don't need to buy new, and to replace regularly, it's your car. We're seven years into the ownership of the car we bought when we first married. We use public transit and planning so that we have only one car (I know at some point we'll have to get another one), and we're hoping to keep driving our current car for another few years. We love that we have it paid off, and we love that the insurance on it is cheap.
Don't forget however that the repairs you are making for your old car are a sunk cost. On the other hand the monthly payments you will make for the new car are building equity (even though new cars depreciate very fast), so the equation isn't as cut and dried as you might think.
You are very lucky though to only have put in $2000 in repairs. I had a 1998 Saturn SW1 that last year alone I put in $2000 in repairs. This plan works depending on the car. If you have a car that is and will be dependable it works. If your car costs more in repairs it does not work. The $2000 I spent in repairs is about $166.67/month not to mention the time cost of going to the repair shop.
I am following the same sort of plan. Our cars are considerably younger than the Geo Prizm (2004 and 2005) but they are both paid off and we intend to drive them until the fall apart beneath us. When the second car was paid off, we started putting the same amount we paid on the car payment every month into and ING account. That money is for a down payment someday but it is also to be used for any repair bills that come up. Not regular maintenance like oil changes etc. but for bigger, unexpected things.
The only thing I am somewhat worried about is because both cars are a similar age that we will have to replace them at the same time (or close to it). My hope is that we will be able to pay cash for at least one of them or at the very least have a significant down payment for both. Hopefully I won't have to worry about that for quite some time though.
here in Brazil things are a little more complicated. you buy a new car for like 10.000 dollars and after 10 years it is still worth 60% of that amount.
this happens because most people dont have money to buy new cars, so the used ones have great value.
i have a 1995 chevrolet vectra cd, which is worth some 6.000 dollars.
crazy, isnt it?
at least the good about used cars here is that most people dont have insurance on it. i dont. and the annual tax over cars is like 4% of its value. less tax too.
and my car has a 2 liter engine, air-conditioner, all whistles and bells, stuff that new and cheap cars dont even dream of having.
ah yes, i was almost forgetting: here we dont have the habit of leasing cars and be paying them every month for all our lives. people who have more money do that, but most people buy used cars, either cash or financed, and then keep them for several years. we dont put car payments as a monthly expense.
I bought a brand new honda accord last year after driving my 93 camry into the ground (225k miles). I've already paid it off and plan to drive this one into the ground too.
Oh and if you're worried I overpaid for a new car, don't. I was well below invoice and for the first 6 months I could have resold the car for a profit at private sale.
Our cars are 10 and 22 years old, we can easily afford new ones, but don't because the ones we have are perfectly sufficient. The 22 yr old car, ferries my wife back and forth from the train station, and the 10 year old car does the rest. On top of the savings, driving older cars is incredibly green. The manufacture of cars uses vast amounts of fossil fuels. The cost of replacement parts was a tiny fraction of that.
Alas the 10 year old car is getting less reliable, and we feel it is time to buy a new one. But I feel like a new car every 10 years is pretty reasonable.
PS We will probably keep all 3 cars. Put the newest car in the garage for family time and long trips, Give me wife the 10 year old sedan for trips to the station, and I keep the 22 yr old car for daily things around town. That might enable us to get 12-15 years on the new car!
My wife and I are following this philosophy now too.
We are still paying off my 2002 Subaru Forester we bought used in 2006 (about $5600 left on that loan), but we are about to switch our debt snowball to that loan with the goal of paying it off this year.
My wife's car just died (a 1997 Dodge Neon that we road into the ground), but my grandparents decided to give us their 1993 Saab 900S Convertible that had been in storage for over a year. It has 160k on it, but is free and it runs great. Needs a few things here and there, but for a 16-year-old car, it is in amazing shape.
My goal after the Subaru is to never have a car payment again. After this, its monthly payment goes into the debt snowball to pay off our student loans.
Yep. That's why I drive my 1995 Geo Metro. It's mine, it's paid for, and it runs fine. That's all it needs to do. I'll drive it until it falls apart.
Yep, Joel and Jean.
After exhaustive research online in May 2008 for a car that was cheap to: buy, fuel, insure, repair, and, well, cheap on medical bills (i.e., safe), I found my own 1994 Geo Metro on ebay.
I get a ridiculous 50 MPG, use it mostly for groceries and gas but also semi-annual trips to VA to see family (from NC, about 250 miles one way–exactly one 10-gallon tank of gas!), and have paid only for regular oil changes and tuneups, a new battery, and $450 for new head gasket and master cylinder (obviously also shopped around for that price on parts and labor!)
And yeah, she's small, but a hatchback; with the back seat down, I've moved some pretty major furniture–have even sleep back there a couple of times.
ALWAYS, check the CarFax and spring $100 for a certified pre-purchase inspection.
And haggle(!). Final price to buy Gaia (Greek Goddess of Mother Earth because of the 50 MPG)?
$2500, well below invoice for a car in excellent condition.
I love Gaia as much as I would ever allow myself to love any physical object; best car I've ever owned or could hope to!
Happy Wheeling, y'all.
I agree with keeping a car past the end of payments – to a point.
If I'm going to drive a 20-year old car, it is most certainly *not* going to be a domestic econobox.
As a husband and father of four children, safety is sometimes more important than saving money, so I'm willing to pay a wee bit more for maintenance on a larger car with a better safety record.
(e.g. a previously enjoyed Accord or Camry)
I drive a 13-year-old car, too (it's a '96 model, but it was manufactured in November 1995). The way I see it, when you buy a car, you might get a good one and you might get a lemon, but when you have 170,000 miles on a car, you know you have a good one.
@Ryan2 – excellent points, thank you.
I agree with the post wholeheartedly except for one issue which isn't mentioned directly: it partly depends upon where you live and to a degree, your family situation. If my wife were still in her 30′s and was carting our two young sons around, I would not feel comfortable with her in a 13 year old car driving down I-80 in the middle of Nebraska. In the winter.
Other than that, of course it makes sense to hang onto older vehicles and get your money out of them. But when the car's proclivity for breaking down exceeds your tolerance for risk, you may want to consider a late model used replacement.
Good post.
Buying used is also the way to go as well. Two years (especially cars just off a short lease) can be some of the best deals around.
A car depreciates (depending who's doing the talking I imagine) around 30% in the first two years. So just rolling a new car off the lot as the first owner costs you about 15% of the sale price.
Two year old cars are generally still fully covered under warranty (except the new 2-year Tesla bandwagon others might jump in on), and if you can find one with low KMs (say about 16 000KM or 10 000 miles per year) you can get a real winner of a car. I won't talk to much about our – but do your research!
We saved about $10,000 buying our used car and nothing other than regular maintenance (oil + brakes + regular checkups).
On the flip side, this gem of a car I've been going on and on about replaces another used car that was the opposite.
Bought at 13 years of age, it was a cheap Camry. It was a money pit. By the time I'd sunk my first $3000 into it, I had tricked myself into thinking that every problem thereafter was the last. I got rid of it for a huge loss. In that particular case, a $250 investment (or less) in a mechanic looking the car over pre-purchase would have been the investment to make.
Still, I do love me the automobile even if both my wife and I mostly use our legs and public transit now.
Our car was bought used in 2005 (it's a 2003), and we paid it off last year. We're now saving cash for repairs and/or the day we may need a second vehicle.
When my husband's truck was rear-ended and totaled, we decided not to buy a second vechile just yet, which has saved us a ton of money. It's not always an easy arrangment b/c we don't live near public transit routes, but it's been worth the effort.
This plan only has one loophole I can think of: safety. Safety features have improved since 1995. How can one only consider monies saved when safety is involved?
I learned two things about cars from a friend who was an investment advisor:
1) Most of his $1 million (and up) net worth clients drove to his office in old cars. Some were beaters.
2) "The only thing that depreciates faster than a car is food."
This is why I drive a 1997 Honda CR-V with over 127K miles. I hear Chad sitting on my shoulder talking me down whenever I visit edmunds.com.
I am right with you as I have a long since paid off 1994 Sentra that is quite a spectacle to look at, but continues to run without any repairs. I only paid 5k for it 7 years ago. We have two children and the two door and very small nature of it are an inconvenience, but how really cares. I have bigger dreams and things to focus my energy on.
We have 3k-5k saved for a new used car whenever it should go.
Somehow I take solace and pride in the fact that I drive a junker. It also helps curb materialism!
Great post! I drive a '92 Sunbird and as a 26 year old I get a lot of looks from my peers who ask me "why not buy a new car," to which I respond much the same as you did.
I also work with teenagers…who thought it was kind of lame until they got to know the why behind it. Now they think it's cool because it's "retro."
I have money to buy a "new" car (Read: used, but new to me) but will wait a few more years to see what I can get out of my Sunbird.
On the whole, the less you rotate through cars the better (unless you get an occassional lemon).
We do it slightly differently in our family.
We keep one nice car (a Mercedes) and use it when we go on trips, want to be comfortable, etc.
For the daily stuff, my wife drives a 5 year old Toyota Corolla that is still in excellent shape and probably has at least another 3 to 5 years on it.
Maintenance has been less than $1,000 per year, BUT I'm expecting that I'll have to probably put in more than that over the next few years (but it's still worth it).
SO, we have an every day car that my wife can drive (which she loves) AND we have a nice car to use for business and pleasure . . .
Plus, once every year or two my business requires me to do a cross country driving trip (about 10,000 miles or more), so it's nice to do so in a VERY comfortable car.
I drove my first car, a plymouth neon, for 10 years. I'm amazed your maintenance costs were so low, mine on that little car were definitely higher. Lots of little things broke and I finally got tired of all the problems. I then bought way too much car! I finally paid that off this year and I hope to drive this car another 10 years. It will be great for when we have kids, has all the safety features and still makes me smile. Buying a car that you will be happy with for years is part of that equation.
This post is pretty relevant to me. I have a '01 Nissan Maxima with 180k miles on it. These things seem to run forever, and at this point, I might as well run it until it dies, since the resale value is pretty much nil.
The plan is to save money now so we have $10-$15k banked up when we do need a replacement car. Trying to avoid payments at all costs!
Good idea and inspiring, but as Ryan2 (above) posted, unfortunately, the calculations don't make much sense.
When you buy a car, it is worth some amount of money initially, and then depreciates over time with use. So each year that you have it, you're "saving" less money, because you can only "save" the value of your car. Once it's worth practically nothing (i.e. only scrap), you save nothing. And in fact, it may actually cost you money, because of upkeep expenses.
The calculation that you need to do is: how much did I initially spend, how much has the car depreciated, how much can I sell it for now, how much does it cost for upkeep, and how much will it cost me to replace it.
As Ryan2 pointed out, it's important not to get confused by the numbers.
We have two beaters, a 1991 Chevy and a 1995 Honda (40 mpg), both pass the 240,000 mark. Even though they both were running fine, we took them to a local mechanic for a maintence workover this past summer.
We have the cash to, but never have and never will buy new.
That's a AMAZINGLY silly way of calculating the cost of a car. There is no direct relation between the cost of a car and the payments.
The correct way is to say that the cost of a car is equal to value-loss, plus repairs. So a new car will generally have a larger value-loss, but less repairs.
A new $20K car can easily lose 20% of it's value in the first year, or $4K, which makes it expensive, even if has zero repairs needed.
The most inexpensive car to drive, is the one where the sum of value-loss and repairs is the lowest possible. That's hard to know beforehand — you can get lucky and have a $3K car work for a year with zero repairs, or you can get unlucky and buy a $20K car that nevertheless requires significant repairs.
What is certain is that the first 2-3 years are expensive. Buying a 3 year old car and driving it until it's 13 is almost certainly going to be better than buying a new car and driving it until it's 10.
On the other hand, buying a 15 year old car and driving it for the next 10 years probably isn't a smart idea, quite likely the repairs will cost more than you save.
In addition to this, a newer car can be more fuel-efficient, safer, more dependable and more comfortable. The first of these is directly financially important, the rest also has some value to people, how much depend on personal preference.
Another advantage to driving an older car–less likely to have it broken into or stolen! I typically drive my cars for 10-12 years (around the time that the cost of maintenance and the inconvenience of breakdowns begins to eat into the benefit of driving an old car). Driving an old car isn't a guarantee it won't be broken into or stolen, of course, but I do think it lowers your chances! Also, I tend not to be stressed about little dings, worried about having the car "keyed," etc. I always feel more stressed out the first 2-3 years driving my "new" car.
My dad used to always say that there was never a good reason to take out a loan to buy a car. Thus far in my life, I never have. Of course, I've driven some pretty junky cars, especially when I was younger.
I recently bought a new car (to me). I sold my 95 mercury for a nominal value and purchased a 2004 Toyota Camry. I paid all cash for the purchase. I don't know if it was a good decision or not. It would be nice to have that 11k back, but I also have a car that starts every morning and gets me to work. Plus, I work in a field where clients may make judgments based on your appearance (including what you drive).
I employee this exact same philosophy!
I currently drive a 2000 Jeep Cherokee. I bought it used & currently still owe on it, but plan on driving it well after I've paid it off.
Great article…people should REALLY take note of this article. Yes it goes against popular opinion, but isn't that what we have to do to "Get Rich Slowly"??
Not everything is as nice as it looks at first glance. Firstly, here in Europe (at least in Poland) owning an older car actually makes your insurance more expensive. The insurance company assumes that the older the car gets the more accident prone it is. Secondly, having an older car may save you money only when it is a fairly dependable car. Sometimes buing sth new is more profitable because it brokes less often. What's more, older cars tend to have less economical engines, which means you're going to spend more on gas. However, this post is still a nice tip as upcoming legislation from EU will derogate earlier regulations which forced car manufacturers to publish car specification in order to allow anyone to produce equivalent spare parts. If the new legislation will come in force, only the authorised service stations will have the proper parts and knowledge to repair the car. Driving a rusty, old diesel may then proove even more frugal.
I drove an 89 Nissan Stanza from 93-05. My parents bought the car for me used and I just pocketed the money saving for my next car. In 05 I got rid of the Nissan w/150 mi on it. I bought an 01 Acura for $18k. I paid cash. I'm still driving the car and its still a very nice car. And its still worth $7k or so.
Last year I did put about $1600 in repairs in it. First off I bought a new set of Michelins in January (good for another 65k miles). Then in December I had the timing belt, water pump and 90k mi service done (at an independent mechanic I know and trust). So I fully plan to drive this car for about 4 more years when I should be at 120k miles. I'll reevaluate my plan at that point.
My husband prefers to buy a new car for himself – as long as his "wants" are modest he comes out ok if he drives the car 12 years or more. We basically try to keep the cost of the car (minus repairs, gas, maintenance) to less than $2k per year. In other words I paid $18k for the Acura I have to drive it 9 years. He paid $24k for his Camry – he has to drive it 12 years. OF course things will happen – like accidents and family changes that might require a different type of car. But we try to stick to the $2k/year cost.
Great post! What's great about driving your car into the ground is that it's a strategy that everyone that drives can implement. Put it in your plan to drive your car for at least 10+ years and watch your savings account grow!
Ryan2, Gunnar,
I think it's a perfectly reasonable way to calculate the savings. Here's my justification:
The geo was worth what $13,000 new? After 4 years, maybe it's worth half $6,500? But, what most people do is trade it in (trade in value $4,000), they get a more expensive car, maybe $17,000. They have the same loan, $13,000, and the same payment, and only one car. They 2nd car might be nicer, but it still has 4 tires and one steering wheel.
That's the argument made, and if you look at the expenses that people incur when they get into the car swapping cycle, this is an extremely good estimate.
The problem with the depreciation estimation is that you described is that it tells you how to estimate the cost/yr or cost/mile of his geo, but there are a lot more steps to calculating the cost of the new cars each year, and you'd end up with almost the same number, if you get every step. Finance, dealer vs FSBO price. In Ryan's counter example, if the alternative to the geo was buying a new car, with the same car payment at the end of ten months, then the geo will save you $130,000.
In my experience, buying used, and keeping in the long run means that you can buy your way out of almost any mechanical problems. I think it's a given truth that repairing a car is going to be cheaper than buying another car (even if it's used).
why drive a car at all? I commute to work by subway, which is cheaper then the gas only. And faster.
From time to time I'm renting a car for the weekend. Which is about 90€ for the whole weekend.
And I'm a member of a car sharing community. I can pickup cars anywhere in the city. This costs about 2.30 € an hour plus 0.24 € per km. Including the gas.
So my annual costs are less then 2500€. And I'm always having a car that smells new
I actually like your way of thinking 'saving' the car payment every month. It's using the same philosophy as Dave Ramsay's snowball method of paying off lowest cc debt first to gain a sense of accomplishment which leads to more confidence and less liklihood of abandoning your new and improved budgeting ways. Guess the critics are not seeing the philosophy behind it!!
Concrete thinking is depressing.
Great Post! My car is going on 10. And until it no longer runs, it will be my car. I think though when you do have to buy a car, you should try to find something not too old to make sure you get the benefits of the milage and hopefully some warranty. Just not new.
We try to avoid investing in depreciating assets, too. Most cars are transportation, not investments.
Our current cars are a 1994 Toyota Corolla (165k) and a 2002 Honda Odyssey (80k). They look a bit trashy, but we're OK with that. They run fine.
We've had a few expensive repairs on the Corolla over the past 3 years, but they've been a lot less than a replacement used car.
I remember someone asking Click and Clack when it's time to stop paying to repair a car, and they said that when the repaired car is worth less than the repair *to you*, then it's time to give in. We haven't gotten there yet, but we set a ceiling estimate number whenever we take one of the cars in for repairs.
Or you could ride a bike, walk and take public transportation. If you have a gym membership, you won't need it if you bike and walk. If you skip using your car even 20% of the time, think of the money you'd save, the wear and tear you'd save on your car, and the health benefits. I won't go into the environmental benefits!
As some of the comments above have mentioned, this type of money savings is highly dependent on the individual car, but it also depends on where you live.
In 2003 I was driving a 1994 Dodge Spirit with 169K on it. The engine still ran perfectly, and it never gave me any problems. My problem, however, was that I was moving from New York to Pennsylvania. In New York they use a ton of salt on the roads in the winter, and everyone that lives there knows that no matter how much you was your car it will eventually take a toll on the sheet metal. So the car had some rust holes in it that were completely cosmetic issues and was perfectly legal in New York. When I had the car inspected in PA (one month after getting it inspected in NY), they said in order to pass state inspection I would need to get body work done on the car that would have cost me in excess of the car's worth. Even though the car ran perfectly and still had plenty of life in it, I was forced to give it up because it had rust on it. Every time I drive up to NY now and see 20-yr-old pick-up trucks with only a third of the rear fender left due to rust, I am always a little bitter.
@Emily; and yet I think it's important to look at things we do in as large a frame of reference as possible, because everything you mentioned should weigh into any decision.
And it's a pretty easy, logic argument to make for decreased dependance on the automobile.
OFFTOPIC Warning
I bet if one were to chart the easy access to car loans, with the popularity of tvs and cross reference to obesity we'd see a pretty big increase around there.
I got pretty chubby after I got my first car. I used to bike everywhere. It was a challenge to work back towards what I had going right in the first place.
We just bought a new (to us) car this past fall, we saved up and bought the car with cash. I had been driving a 1999 paid for car that I hated. In the same time period that I owned the 1999 car I have a friend who leased two cars (her first least cost $500 a month and her second lease is $700 a month and she still has student loan debt) and I have another friend who is on his fourth car. Those car payments add up my friend leased her first car for 3 year years and then renewed because she wasn't sure what to do, she spent more than $25,000 on that first lease (I bought my nused car for less than $20,000).
I was able to pay off a new 1992 Honda Accord within 6 months, and it was still going strong in the fall of 2008 with 252,000 miles when I hit a deer . While I had some high maintenance years (up to $2000 on a really bad year), all maintenance costs (including oil changes) averaged to less than $70/month for the life of the car. And my insurance was down to less than $50/month. And I did splurge on occasional detailing (~$130 and worth every penny – I only did it 2 or 3 times over the 16 years), so the car didn't quite have a new car smell, but it was close .
Unfortuntely, with my current circumstances I did have to go into debt to buy a used car, but my payments are only $139/month, and I work at home now, so maintenance and gas are really low for me.
I would have driven that car another 10 years if I could – not just because of the money, but as others have mentioned, it's actually really nice to have a car that you really don't care if it gets banged up, or even totalled (so long as no one gets hurt – I mean, I really do feel for the deer, but no one else was hurt). It was awesome that I knew for years that no matter what happened to that car, I was already so far ahead by keeping it for so long.
So many people didn't get why I would continue to drive the same car for so long – but that's okay, I don't get those people, either.
I too have an older car, a 1993 Honda Civic. I bought it new in 1993 and paid it off in 2.5 years. It has been the best running car I've ever had, only about $2500 of repairs in the last 16 years. I simply like my car, so that's one reason I haven't updated, the other reason is I can only put so much away per month, but I am almost there so when my Civic finally gives up, I'll be ready. Great post.
We do basically the same thing. DH drives an '01 that has 120k and runs great. I got a "new" car (2002 with 60k) in April '08 and sold my '92 with 185k very cheap.


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Why listen to mediocre prog if you not a collector
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dr wu23
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Topic: Why listen to mediocre prog if you not a collector
Posted: March 18 2013 at 16:17
Originally posted by desistindo
I have a theory that only collectors listen to prog that arent a masterpiece (at least in personal taste perspective). If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance? Particularly speaking, I have many prog albums and I just linsten back to the tops. Does it occur with you too?
I kind of agree with what he's saying if you look at it from that perspective.
I have 'collected' many prog cd's over the years and some I rarely listen to because they are simply not as good as the others with traditionally higher ratings. That doesn't mean I don't pull them out and play them sometimes because one could always change their mind or 'hear' an lp differently the next time.
So I tend to do the same thing and play my favorites which usually are the higher ranked lp's.
And case in point I have a friend who is a hard core collector (thousands of cd's and lp's ..) of all things progressive rock...and he has told me there are many things he has only played once because they just aren't as good as the better rated ones.
Just saying......
Et In Arcadia Ego
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 24 2013 at 14:49
Sometimes it's nice to listen to an (justly) underrated album just to hear something new. I personally am a rabid hunter for great tracks which will never be on any greatest hits or reunion tour setlist, hidden away in a minor LP, and they are everywhere.
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 24 2013 at 16:57
Yeah, i know what you mean. Sometimes can be more "adventurous" if you pick the "obscure" way in some famous band's discography too.
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 25 2013 at 05:12
Another factor is that we all have a limited amount of time to listen to anything. Let's hypothetically say we can listen to ten thousand hours of music before we die (I'm old, yeah) - if we're limited to ten thousand hours, how much of that do we want to give over to repeat plays of the masterpieces we've already heard a few hundred times? one hundred plays of one hundred overplayed masterpieces would use up most of our allotted time, and we'll have only heard a hundred albums. Why not instead spread it about among 'mediocre' music or non-prog music or dedicate our listening time to new things - the best of 2014 is going to be amazing to listen to, whoever it'll be by, but not yet. And we won't know which of the future music is going to be masterpieces or mediocre or utter doo-doo until we actually listen to it.
Edited by Stool Man - March 25 2013 at 05:13
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 25 2013 at 05:26
Not to mention never listen to any masterpieces by Swans or John Cage :mrgreen:
Edited by Chozal - March 25 2013 at 05:26
The Infinite Progability Drive, feeding you daily progressive/weird music for just a like <3
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 25 2013 at 12:16
The MAGICK difference is that I don't listen to "prog", or "masterpieces", or "star", or "two star", or "mediocre" ... ... and this is one of the most important things when discussing and understanding the underlying current of the original folks that were here 40 years ago (with the music I mean), most of which are highly musically inclined and interested in DIFFERENT music, none of which had anything to do with collecting at all.
In my case, it is all about "my own experience", and none of it has anything else to do with anyone else or anything else ... I may have gotten a little help from a few friends, notably Guy Guden at one time, but that's like saying I didn't have it before, when our house already had things like Alan Stivell and Aphrodite's Child and many Europeans and Latin Americans ... we were a house that was listening to a lot of music! I didn't need anyone to tell me that something was nice, or good ... and that is the main difference on my comment ... besides the fact that I doubt that collecting has a whole lot to do with listening ... for many people ... when you find that someone only wants this Blue Note label or another label, and they didn't care if Miles Davis played elsewhere ... which I have seen in my life!
Other than a handful of folks here, most of us collect experiences, not records, or cd's! Otherwise, the meaning of the music itself ... dies! And very quickly!
Edited by moshkito - March 25 2013 at 12:22
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 25 2013 at 12:56
Ever since first finding this site many moons ago I've been non-plussed by the descriptions we give to 1 and 2 star ratings:
(not withstanding that the correct term is 'completists' not 'completionists')
Because who are we if not fans, and what are we if not collectors?
If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 25 2013 at 20:39
^^^ Maybe it reflects a certain kind of highly zealous, autograph-hunting fan who will buy everything the artist releases because of his identity alone. I am a fan of Scorpions but I didn't like Humanity and didn't have interest in learning what Sting in the Tail would be like. So I am a fan only to the extent I really like some of their work but not indiscriminately so of the band themselves.
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 25 2013 at 21:13
I always took fans in this context to mean more die-hard fans - take a hypothetical 2-star Genesis album - the Genesis uber-fans among us would be more interested than I, a casual acquaintance at best, and the 2 star rating can convey that as much as any rating can. Collectors in the context of a band is that certain band (most everyone has one) where you'll gobble up everything sound unheard no matter how dire others may consider it.
Agree that everyone knows a 1-star means "this sucks" and there's really no need to qualify it further.
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 26 2013 at 07:30
I collect - mediocre albums tend to surface now and then but its worth the effort to get to the masterpiece albums. I listen to the mediocre albums once in a while and enjoy them as they usually have some merit despite the non classic material.
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|Post Options Quote Reply Posted: March 27 2013 at 09:03
Gosh ... now I have to look to see if I have any of these ... if "any", I probably would think that the stuff I have from Pete Brown, is down right close ... I think there was an interest earlier, but it was hard to believe, that a few songs that came off so well written, all of a sudden, came off like crap! I never understood that ... and when I heard his album with the keyboard player from MAN, my only thought was ... this guy is too ripped to know the difference anymore!
But generally, that is the only one just about ... but I suppose that me having a few Mahler Symphonies, Turandot, Mary Queen of Scots, and a lot of Bernard Herrman will ahve many folks scratching their heads!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!
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We Shall Be No More: Suicide and Self-Government in the Newly United Statesby Richard Bell
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Suicide is a quintessentially individual act, yet one with unexpectedly broad social implications. Though seen today as a private phenomenon, in the uncertain aftermath of the American Revolution this personal act seemed to many to be a public threat that held no less than the fate of the fledgling Republic in its grip.
Salacious novelists and eager newspapermen broadcast images of a young nation rapidly destroying itself. Parents, physicians, ministers, and magistrates debated the meaning of self-destruction and whether it could (or should) be prevented. Jailers and justice officials rushed to thwart condemned prisoners who made halters from bedsheets, while abolitionists used slave suicides as testimony to both the ravages of the peculiar institution and the humanity of its victims. Struggling to create a viable political community out of extraordinary national turmoil, these interest groups invoked self-murder as a means to confront the most consequential questions facing the newly united states: What is the appropriate balance between individual liberty and social order? Who owns the self? And how far should the control of the state (or the church, or a husband, or a master) extend over the individual?
With visceral prose and an abundance of evocative primary sources, Richard Bell lays bare the ways in which self-destruction in early America was perceived as a transgressive challenge to embodied authority, a portent of both danger and possibility. His unique study of suicide between the Revolution and Reconstruction uncovers what was at stake--personally and politically--in the nation's fraught first decades.
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The subject of suicide is more often treated by psychologists, sociologists, and philosophers; but Bell is a historian (U. of Maryland), and this intriguing study explores suicide in the context of the early republic. In clear and engaging prose, the author examines public and media attention to suicide occurrences, the rhetoric of self destruction and its infusion into national debate, and how perceptions of suicide reflected fears and struggles in the new nation. Annotation ©2012 Book News, Inc., Portland, OR (booknews.com)
Though suicide is an individual act, Richard Bell reveals its broad social implications in early America. From Revolution to Reconstruction, everyone--parents, newspapermen, ministers and abolitionists alike--debated the meaning of suicide as a portent of danger or of possibility in a new nation struggling to define itself and its power.
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25 October 2013
Learning Technologies 2014 and Learning & Skills 2014 announced
Europe's top learning-sector exhibition and conference: Learning Technologies 2014 and Learning & Skills 2014 announced for 29-30 January; 15th successive annual event; Olympia 2, London; exhibition registration open.
25 October 2013
Top learning companies supporting Learning Technologies and Learning & Skills 2014
Europe's top learning-sector brands are supporting the annual Learning Technologies and Learning & Skills 2014 events; 14 sponsors announced; 230 exhibitor spaces announced.
25 October 2013
Learning Technologies 2014 Conference programme announced
The programme for the January 2014 Learning Technologies Conference in London was published today; debate to focus on how technology is changing learning cultures and what this means for organisational learning and development.
19 December 2012
A guide to coaching for performance at January's Learning Technologies Conference
Learning Technologies has invited Michael Bungay Stanier from Box of Crayons to reinvigorate L&D's participation in coaching, an often overlooked but essential skill for L&D professionals.
18 December 2012
Learning for the YouTube generation
Martin Addison, CEO of Video Arts, will present to the Learning and Skills Group community this week on using video in learning, at a time when learners are more familiar than ever before with accessing video online
18 December 2012
From cost-centre to 'must-have': making L&D matter
L&D is often seen as a cost centre, yet with the challenges business faces, organisations badly need strong L&D functions that execute business strategy: at the upcoming Learning Technologies Conference Robert O Brinkerhoff will demonstrate the attributes of effective L&D leaders.
17 December 2012
What does life-long learning look like now?
At Learning Technologies in January, Professor Stephen Heppell, Chair in New Media Environments at Bournemouth University, will speak at the conference on how, with a new economic landscape, our view of life-long learning is evolving
16 December 2012
Nigel Paine on learning innovation: changing your approach - at Learning Technologies
Nigel Paine, the BBC's former chief learning officer, believes that many organisations must change their approach to learning and returns to the Learning Technologies Conference this January to help the L&D community to understand why and how.
13 December 2012
Future learning environments - Steve Wheeler at Learning Technologies
January's Learning Technologies Conference will take a look at the combination of social and mobile technologies with intelligent systems and the mind-boggling possibilities for learning, through the eyes of Plymouth University's Steve Wheeler.
12 December 2012
Tony Buzan on creativity and learning at Learning Technologies
At the upcoming Learning Technologies Conference Tony Buzan, the inventor of Mind Mapping, will lead a specially designed one-hour workshop on creativity.


text: Discuss as: Ready for some soccer? By Rich Shulman Wednesday Jun 9, 2010 8:53 PM Email Tweet I love how they are able to all head the ball in unison. It will be interesting to see how the American sports audience responds to 64 matches broadcast live on major networks.


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Miranda Kerr's Beauty Secrets For A Happy Marriage; K-Stew's Future At Balenciaga: A Discussion; And More…
What are Miranda Kerr's secrets for keeping husband Orlando Bloom happy? A little lipstick and some lingerie—life lessons she learned from her grandmother. "Every day, put a little makeup on, put on some nice underwear, and you'll keep your husband," the Victoria's Secret Angel advised on late-night television yesterday. [Daily Mail]
For anyone wondering how the 36 models that walked the icy-cold Chanel Métiers d'Art runway last night in Scotland managed to keep their breath invisible, the answer is simple: "ice cubes pre-walk," according to backstage regular Jaquelyn Jablonski. [Twitter]
With Alexander Wang officially in at Balenciaga, inquiring minds want to know if that means Kristen Stewart is out. The Balenciaga fragrance face might not jive with Wang's ties to Liberty Ross, the model and wife of Rupert Sanders, with whom Stewart had a very public affair this summer, conspiracy theorists assert. There's been no official comment from the French house—or Coty Prestige, which holds its fragrance license—but our bet is K-Stew will stay put, even without Nicolas Ghesquière, who brought her there in the first place. Fragrance contracts are binding, don't ya know. [E!]
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Note: For WMU Football score updates, text BRONCOS to 80373
KALAMAZOO (WQLR) – Name a sports injury and PJ Fleck has probably read it on an injury report for his football team. Whether he was prepared for it or not, the Broncos' first year head coach has sincerely embraced the "next man up" mentality, and so has his team.
For those unfamiliar with the idea, "next man up" is the idea that when a starter goes down, the player behind them is ready to fill their place.
Through any number of concussions, sprains, and broken bones the 2013 edition of Bronco Football has had to combat a firestorm of injuries with youth and inexperience. Before the first snap of the season against Michigan State, Western Michigan's offense touted a youthful exuberance thanks to a broken ankle suffered by their leading receiver Jamie Wilson. Wilson was looking to build on what was a sensational freshman campaign where he hauled in 67 receptions for 792 yards and six scores and was named MAC Freshman of the Year. Instead Wilson's shoes have had to be filled by a corps who Coach Fleck proudly dubbed the "No Name Crew". True Freshman Corey Davis was leading the "No Name Crew" with 23 catches for 335 yards and two touchdowns through four games. His fourth game was cut short due to a concussion he suffered against Iowa, and did not play in the Broncos MAC opener with Kent State.
Next man up? At least in the case of the Kent State game, that distinction goes to sophomore Kendrick Roberts. The Flint Southwestern grad hauled in four catches for 73 yards in the Broncos 32-14 loss to the Golden Flashes. Despite the loss, his contributions weren't lost on his head coach.
"Thank God for Kendrick Roberts," Fleck said Tuesday at the weekly press conference.
Through his endless optimism, Fleck also knows the reality of a senior quarterback throwing to a group of inexperienced and largely untested receivers.
"The comradery that's built during camp and practice just isn't there when you're having to constantly shuffle in a new group,"
Fleck explained, and quickly followed up with, "That in no way explains or excuses our record, but it presents the challenge to our coaching staff to tweak the game plan to set these guys up for success."
Senior quarterback Tyler VanTubbergen has struggled in 2013, throwing nine interceptions against three touchdowns.
Following Coach Fleck's lead, I'm not about to explain away the 0-5 start for Western Michigan with youth and inexperience. I will, however, advise Bronco Nation to look beyond the 0-5 record, the youth, and the inexperience. Instead pay attention to what's going on during this valuable learning process. The players that are building the future and will be writing the history for Bronco Football are playing right now. Getting caught up in the X's and O's and wins and losses might make us miss the "Next Man Up."
Western Michigan (0-5, 0-1 MAC) travels to Toledo (2-3, 1-1) on Saturday October 5th. Listen to Robin Hook and John Creek starting at 2 pm on 96.5 FM WZOX


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"Hey there, was wondering if you could please check out my fan fiction: http://thetwilightsaga.com/group/sethluvrs/forum/topics/chapter-1-first-glimpse-seths Thanks. :)"
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It is indeed a pleasure to welcome you to the "Twilight Saga" Discussion Group. It is, in my opinion, the finest "Twilight" discussion site on the web. Our group "The Rose" discusses different topics from the Saga novels. If you would like to share in our discussions, just go to: http://www.thetwilightsaga.com/group/theofficialtwilightbookdiscussion/forum choose a topic that interests you, and join in on the discussion. From all of us it is my pleasure to say. WELCOME HOME!
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I'm looking for new programs/ opportunities for this winter. Free to travel and want to use it! Full Cv by PM, but recent experience includes 12 Meter World and Multiple NA titles, VO 70, many well known big boat programs. Still ISAF Cat 1, 210#
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John Greystoke and his wife are killed in a helicopter crash while investigating a mysterious meteorite site. Only their young son J.J., nicknamed Tarzan, survives. A group of gorillas discover the boy in the wreckage and takes him in as their own.
Tarzan grows up learning the harsh laws of the jungle for nearly a decade until he encounters another human being - the courageous and beautiful young Jane Porter.
It is love at first sight. But things get dangerous when William Clayton, who travels to Africa with Jane under false pretense, reveals his true and greedy intentions.
Tarzan, now a man like no other, must use all his jungle instincts and intellect to protect his home and defend the woman he loves.
Directed by Reinhard Klooss, 'Tarzan 3D' features the voices of Kellan Lutz, Spencer Locke, Jaime Ray Newman, Robert Capron, Brian Bloom, Mark Deklin, Jo Osmond, Brian Huskey among others.
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8 Celebrity Couples Who Broke Their Engagements
Sometimes, a long engagement is just a sign that two people are extremely busy with work and other responsibilities, and don't have time to plan a wedding, let alone set a date. But, as Newsroom star Allison Pill, 27, and her former fiance, Tropic Thunder star Jay Baruchel, 30, just showed by ending their two-year engagement, sometimes it's a sign of trouble in paradise.
The pair, who have been together since meeting on a movie set in 2010, announced their split to Us Weekly, following some lonely tweets from Jay. "Alone again, naturally," he tweeted, before deleting the cryptic message.
Of course, broken celebrity engagements are common in Hollywood—a place where relationships are deemed "long-term" if they make it past 90 days. How can we forget Brad Pitt and Gwyneth Paltrow's matching haircuts, wardrobes, and sad faces after ending their epic engagement? Not to mention the end of Bennifer, aka Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck, who went from boats and Bentleys to a big mess back in 2004. Check out the most memorable celebrity engagements gone wrong!
View the gallery: 8 Celebrity Broken Engagements
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Tracy Unified School District has hired four new assistant principals — two at West High School, one at Kimball High School and one at Kelly School — for the new school year beginning Aug. 12.
The school district announced the new hires in a press release on Tuesday, July 23 and all four have already started at their new positions.
Taking the assistant principal slots at West High are Barbara Silver and Zachary Boswell.
Silver, a former assistant principal at Kimball High, will be replacing West's former assistant principal Troy Brown, who was promoted to the school principal in early March.
Silver was chosen for her nearly 30 years of educational experience and her work as assistant principal at Willow Community Day School, Tracy Adult School and Kimball High.
She has a doctorate in educational administration, a master's degree in multicultural education and a bachelor's degree in international relations and Spanish, all from University of the Pacific.
Boswell is stepping into a new assistant principal position created from a counselor vacancy at West High. His educational experience includes five years as a high school principal and English at Sanger High and Lincoln High of Stockton.
Boswell has a master's degree in educational technology from National University and a bachelor's in English from California State University, Fresno.
Replacing Silver at Kimball is Michael Stagnaro, who comes to TUSD with eight years of educational experience.
In addition to teaching social science in Los Banos Unified School District, Stagnaro worked as an associate professor at Bethany University, where he obtained his bachelor's degree. He also holds a Master of Divinity from Princeton Seminary.
TUSD officials have also named former North School teacher Christopher Harvey as Kelly School assistant principal.
Harvey replaces Eric Lobaugh, who served the kindergarten-eighth-grade school in an interim capacity during the 2012-13 school year.
Harvey has 12 years of experience in education and joined TUSD in 2005 as a math teacher at North. He previously worked as a Tracy Adult School administrator and taught in other school districts.
He holds administrative credentials from California State University, East Bay, in Hayward and a bachelor's degree in liberal studies, with a minor in human development.
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(WMC-TV) - There are a lot of reasons people may choose to live in Memphis. The Mississippi River's location makes the city a shipping and transportation hub, something Memphians have known for quite some time. But did you know the Bluff City is one of the cheapest places in the country to settle down?
According to Kiplinger.com, a personal finance and business website, Memphis is the fourth cheapest city in which to live in the United States.
Kiplinger compiled its list based on the Council for Community and Economic Research calculations of living expenses in 307 urban areas with populations above 50,000.
The Cost of Living Index measures the price of housing, groceries, utilities, transportation, health care, and miscellaneous goods and services.
The 10 finalists are from across the country, but they all have "super-affordable housing options for renters and homeowners".
Memphis, the biggest city in Tennessee, also has half-a-million more people than the next largest city on the list, McAllen, Texas, which ranked second for cheapest city.
But, as Kiplinger says, there are "no big city prices" in the Bluff City, where one can easily find and buy a home for under $100,000, a feat practically unmatched in any other city the same size.
Kiplinger.com also noted Memphis is home to three Fortune 500 companies (FedEx, International Paper and Autozone), as well as numerous colleges and universities.
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Credits & Info
- Uploaded
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- Daily Feature March 2, 2002
If you liked this, check these out!
Plenty more like this here!
Arrogancy Characters evolve, relationships develop, and what you think to be true turns out in quite unexpected ways.
Author Comments
First things first - I was recently laid off! If anyone knows of any open illustrator or graphic design, etc. positions, please let me know! Now, on with the description:
This is the "small version" of Arrogancy: Chapter 3. The full version is too large to place on this site - Tom said he'd do it manually later. However, I decided to upload this more "accessible" version for modem users.
This version is lacking lip syncing and voices. The full version is available on my site.
In the third episode, the story and animation evolves even more. It's around 5 minutes long. Uh...that's about all I can say.
Warning: For those of you that come here to strictly see random violence with an overabundance of blood, naked dress up pictures, and stickmen shoot em ups with backgrounds exported from Swift 3D - you won't find it here, so don't download this and then give me a zero because it wasn't what you wanted to see. This is the third part of a continuing series, so you may be lost if you don't view the other two first.
See if you can find spots for the following NG movies in this episode:
Xiao Xiao
Work It
Pico 2
Rated 5 / 5 stars September 9, 2004
that was really really awsome they keep geting beter as they go along
Rated 3.5 / 5 stars September 5, 2004
you realie on tweening way to much in this. And you are oviuosly void of good voices.
Rated 4.5 / 5 stars September 4, 2004
Other than no voices it was ok
It was ok, but you've done better!
Rated 4 / 5 stars August 26, 2004
Bah I dont even wanna talk bout it
Rated 3.5 / 5 stars August 7, 2004
keep on truckin
improving but still needs a lotta work. fight scene much better than last time (but thats not saying much...). time for chapter 4...


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Press Release
Atlific Hotels Announces the Opening of Copper Point Resort in the Heart of Invermere's Golf Country
Invermere, B.C. (May 20, 2011) – Just in time for golf season, Copper Point Resort proudly opens in the heart of the Columbia Valley, British Columbia. Managed by Atlific Hotels, Copper Point Resort is Invermere's newest upscale resort, offering guests onsite access to two magnificent existing golf courses, The Ridge at Copper Point and Copper Point Golf Club.
"Guests of Copper Point Resort will enjoy luxury amenities in a comfortable environment, surrounded by incredible golf and mountain views," said Philippe Gadbois, senior vice-president, sales and marketing, Atlific Hotels. "We are thrilled to open such a stunning resort property to accommodate the many golfers and outdoor enthusiasts who continue to visit the area time and time again."
Developed by award-winning Rohit Communities, Copper Point Resort is located just over three hours away from downtown Calgary. The Invermere hotel's sleek new guestrooms feature hard wood and slate floors and natural leather sofas. Each suite is fully equipped with a gourmet kitchen complete with granite countertop, stainless steel appliances and a barbecue on the private balcony. The only things that can upstage the 203 guestrooms and suites are the breathtaking mountain, valley, or golf course views from each of the suites' large windows and balconies.
Copper Point Resort features indoor and outdoor swimming pools, two outdoor and one indoor hot tub, a fitness centre, sports court, an on-site market and two on-site golf courses, making it the perfect family destination. With seven more magnificent golf courses within a short drive, guests will easily spend more time on the green than in their rooms. Guests of the resort will also enjoy the near-by hot springs, hiking trails and beautiful beaches on Lake Windermere. Additional features include a clever concierge who is available to attend to all guests' needs, designated suites for pet owners and expansive meeting space to accommodate up to 200 guests for meetings and weddings.
Copper Point also introduces Elements Grill, a contemporary restaurant with indoor and outdoor seating that is sure to become a destination for foodies and golfers alike. Helmed by Executive Chef Shane Bauer, the new Invermere restaurant offers contemporary cuisine with an emphasis on seasonal fare. Elements Grill serves breakfast, lunch and dinner as well as room service. The restaurant's ultra fresh seasonal menus offer 'smart food' selections to inspire a healthy, active lifestyle as well as a tapas and light snack menu. For those looking to indulge, Elements Grill also offers exquisite desserts, expertly prepared cocktails, and gourmet coffees, all best enjoyed on the wrap-around outdoor patio while unwinding after a round of golf or catching a game on the patio's large outdoor T.V.
Ask about opening Stay&Play Golf Packages from just $259* per night for a two-night package including one round for two at Copper Point Golf Club, and one round for two at The Ridge at Copper Point.
To book a golf retreat, getaway or Rocky Mountain wedding please visit www.copperpointresort.com
For press-ready images please visit: http://www.cleanpix.com/cleanpix/portal/WBZh-dbG-mY8
About Copper Point Resort
Copper Point Resort is the newest luxury resort in Invermere, British Columbia. Just opened in May 2011, this four season resort is the ultimate family getaway, providing something for everyone including two on-site golf courses, indoor and outdoor swimming pools, three hot tubs, a sports court, on-site market, the contemporary Elements Grill and so much more. Guests of the resort enjoy hiking, power boating, swimming and white water rafting in the summer and heli-skiing, snowboarding and skiing in the winter. The resort offers 203 contemporary guestrooms and suites all featuring superior finishes. Ideal for weddings and events, Copper Point offers expansive meeting space with spectacular views for up to 200 guests. Discover Copper Point Resort. The new champion of sophisticated casual in the Columbia Valley.
About Rohit Communities
Rohit Communities, a division of the Edmonton-based Rohit Group of Companies, is a leading developer and home-builder in Edmonton offering new condos, townhomes, duplexes and single family homes. With over 25 years of experience, Rohit has won numerous awards including being named Edmonton's 2010 and 2011 Home Builder of the Year. It also offers new homes in Fort McMurray and luxury condos for sale in Kelowna. Rohit Communities' newest addition to the group is Copper Point Resort. For ownership opportunities please visit www.rohitcommunities.com or www.copperpoint.ca
About Atlific Hotels
Atlific Hotels is one of the fastest growing hotel management companies in Canada operating over 40 hotels with offices in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. Named Company of the Year in 2009 by Hotelier Magazine, Atlific Hotels has 50 years of experience managing well known Canadian hotels, resorts, and extended-stay properties and has built a reputation for best in business accounting reporting, exceptional sales and marketing programs and sound operational systems. Atlific Hotels' parent company, Ocean Properties, Ltd. operates over 60 hotels throughout the United States. Together they manage over 100 properties in North America with a total of 16,500 rooms, which include independent hotels and resorts as well as internationally recognized hotel brands. www.atlific.com
Media Contacts:
Roanne Goldsman or Rachelle Stark
Aerial Communications Group
416 787 6577


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Follow this item and we'll let you know when the price drops
Specifications & Dimensions
|Color and Styling:
|Black Oxide
|Product Overview:
|Awl-Punch Type:
|Warranties & Coverage:
|General Warranty:
|Lifetime Warranty
|Materials & Finish:
|Allloy Steel
Ratings & Reviews
Product Description
Save valuable time and knockout those pins, bolts, and rivets easily with this Craftsman punch set. This set features chrome vanadium steel blade that is heat treated to ensure long lasting strength and durability. The punch also features a black oxide finish which ensures a corrosion resistant tool.
All Craftsman Chisels and Punches can be used with the punch and chisel holder.
Part # 42839
4 Pin Punches
1 Lineup Tool
1/16" x 4"
Part # 42881
5/32" x 7"
Part # 42901
3/32" x 4"
Part # 42882
1/8" x 4 1/2"
Part # 42883
5/32" x 5"
Part # 42884
- Available for Gift Wrap
Added on May 13, 2010
Overall, others give this:
Reviewers may have received a benefit, like a sweepstakes entry or rewards program points, in exchange for writing a review.
Those benefits were not conditioned on the positive or negative content of the review.
Most Helpful Reviews
Laurel, MD
via sears.com
This is a no-frills, basic punch set. I purchased these for light duty automotive work. I'm satisfied with the variety provided in this package. My only concern is the length of the smaller punches ? I wish the striking ends were just an inch or two longer. Also happy that these were made in USA.
Central City, NE
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I have used these fairly hard (abused) already and they seem to be holding up just fine.
via sears.com
Nice set for the price.
Fairfax, VA
via sears.com
I was lacking any punches on the small end of the range, and this set filled in that void nicely. Note that the larger alignment tool is stamped that it's not for impact use, so don't count on being able to hammer on it. As others have noted, the smallest of the punches doesn't hold up to any hammering, so be prepared to take advantage of the lifetime warranty if you give it any abuse.
Miami, FL
via sears.com
As of May 2014, the online orders are still Made in the USA. The quality isn't top of the line, but it is very for general purpose good. They should last a while.
via sears.com
they are good
Garden Grove, CA
via sears.com
I love how the Craftsman 5 pc. Punch Set works. I set some nails into my crown molding. The air pressure was off for the first setting and left the nail head up a little. Hitting it with a hammer was NOT an option. It would have damaged the wood and stood out like a sore thumb. This punch set tapped it into place with ease. Crisis adverted and my wife is happy with the results. They are tough and will last me a life time. My son will like these one day down the road too. If he needs to borrow them. Just another product that Craftsman made right.
Middletown, RI
via sears.com
Perfect and gets the job done
Bowdoinham, ME
via sears.com
There are many uses for a set of punches. Small pins that need removal to peening.
Newport News, VA
via sears.com
- Free shipping! Orders $59 or more Offer ends 01-Nov-2014 See details.
- Spend $199 in tools from Sears and enroll in the Tool of the Month - www.sears.com/toolofthemonth Offer ends 31-Dec-2014 See details.
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- Online Only! Extra Savings on select tools Sold by Sears! Offer ends 04-Oct-2014 See details.


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GREEN BAY, WI (WTAQ) - The Drought of 2012 keeps getting worse in Wisconsin.
The U.S. Drought Monitor said today that 87 percent of the state's land area has moderate to extreme drought conditions. That's up from 78 percent a week ago.
Two-thirds of the 48 mainland states are still in some form of drought, as farmers complete a corn harvest that's getting smaller.
Thursday, the USDA reduced its estimate of the corn harvest to 10.71 billion bushels, down from 10.73 billion in September. The average yield is 122 bushels an acre, almost a full bushel less than July's projection.
The only part of Wisconsin that's not in a drought is the Door County Peninsula – and the same was true a week ago.
The lowest category – abnormally dry – is now limited to far northwest Wisconsin and a small section from Manitowoc to Sturgeon Bay.
Extreme drought conditions remain in far southern Wisconsin – plus a small part of west central Wisconsin from Black River Falls to Adams-Friendship. Otherwise, much of the eastern half of the state is in a moderate drought, while most of the western half is in a severe drought.


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- Sheet set designed by Jennifer Judd McGee
- Duvet cover is yarn-dyed and made up of a cotton seersucker fabric
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- For complimentary swatches, please email email@example.com
- 100% cotton with super soft finish
- Machine washable
- Don't forget to add our hypo-allergenic Natural Harmony™ comforters and pillows
Details, details
Show 'em what you're made of
Care instructions
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At The Land of Nod, nothing is more important to us than providing safe, high-quality products to you and your family. We believe that kids' products should be able to handle everything kids throw their way (literally and figuratively). That's why all of our products have an 18-year quality guarantee. And, hopefully, your kids will no longer be sleeping in bunk beds by then.
Who's there?
Cologne who?
Cologne me names won't help.


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am I going overboard?
Find a Conversation
|Mon, 10-31-2011 - 3:50pm
I think I might be going overboard... I now have:
-been drinking 48-70 oz of water a day (compared to 8-12 before)
-have some robitussin (no dm this time - to replace the mucinex dm)
-bought some grapefruit juice
-ordered preseed
-ordered Wondfos (50 for under 10bucks on amazon what a deal - I only hope they are easy to read, even the CBE brand OPK's are not that easy to read. I have had some medium dark lines and some barely visible lines but certainly nothing "as dark or darker than" the test line as suggested in the enclosed literature)
My CM sucks usually but I think it is slightly better now a few days after drinking a lot of water. Still, I would call it scant but watery (with little white blobs in it... not sure what that is exactly). It isn't that far into the cycle I feel I would have EWCM yet though, I think tomorrow is the day for EWCM and hopefully a darker OPK line.
THe last time we TTC'd I didn't really do any of this, no charting or anything... so the effort this time should certainly be rewarded :) I say if not this month, then by December with all my attempts. Not that I give up if nothing happens by December but I think that is when I will begin to get more discouraged.
BFP's to all!
|Mon, 10-31-2011 - 4:31pm
Oh yeah, I forgot about the DHEA I also got... I feel a little nuts, seriously.
|Tue, 11-01-2011 - 6:22am
|Tue, 11-01-2011 - 11:17am
I am right there with you Michele. When I conceived my other children it was so easy! How can 2 years make such a difference? When are you testing with your OPKs? I'm a nut and test at least 2x a day so I don't miss it. Some cycles I get a very strong pos that lasts for 2-3 days and some cycles it is barely pos and only lasts for <24 hours. I find the wondfos pretty easy to read, and after a few cycles (Which I hope you don't have) you will get use to what is a pos for you. I like to keep all mine lined up until after I am sure that I O'd so I can see how they look. They are always so pretty. Now if only the Pink wondfos would do the same thing!
Good luck this month
|Tue, 11-01-2011 - 11:29am
Thanks you guys! EmorysMommy, I test once a day. I only bought the CBE combo pack for this first month of OPK's. One HPT and 7 OPK's so I only have two tests remaining (but should get the wondfos by then). To be honest it says not to test if you have peed in the last 4 hours, really??? I pee every 1-2 hours while awake, because I pretty much am drinking liquids the entire time. I can't give up a beverage in my hand to test multiple times a day, so I only test in the morning on 1st pee. Maybe I should try to test multiple times a day once I have a better understanding of when it will be I could do multiple tests closer to O time.


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The Other Washington
In her ongoing project "East of the River," acclaimed area photographer Susana Raab explores the other side of Washington, D.C.—the poverty-stricken, blighted communities in the far northeast and east of Anacostia River that seem to go unnoticed, eclipsed by the classical monuments, political imbroglio and international intrigue, literally, next door. Though arts organizations and business incubators have slowly begun to move in among the boarded-up houses in these neighborhoods, they still remain very poor. Of all large American cities, Washington ranks fourth in income inequality.
When it comes to local politics, writes Tom Sherwood in Politico Magazine, D.C.'s eastern neighborhoods have become important territory. If Vincent Gray hopes to win reelection despite a growing corruption scandal, he must maximize support among the African-American voters concentrated in these communities. And he has turned to former mayor and current popular Ward 8 councilman Marion Barry (Ward 8 includes Anacostia) for help.
Here's what the other side of Washington looks like.
Above, an ATM at a gas station on Martin Luther King, Jr. Ave SE in Anacostia, dispenses cash in increments as low as $1.00. This is the poorest area of Washington, D.C.


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This may not be quite as dramatic of a reveal as the Audi R8 Dione done by SR Auto Group, but pictures of the Canadian tuner's next project – the Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 Project Dakhan – seem to speak for themselves in terms of aesthetic beauty. Of course, this was a simple task considering the Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 is a hot car all on its own. So far, SR Auto Group has added ADV1 (model ADV.1 05) rims which seem to be the only teasing addition to the super car except for the sleek, and always pleasing, all black exterior.
Any other modifications made under the hood, or otherwise, have been sealed tight. However, the subtle changes made to the vehicle at this point were enough to pique our interest, especially since we have seen plenty of projects done by SR Auto Group that have exceeded our expectations, such as the Audi S5 Typhon and the Audi R8 V10 Project Valkyrie . Coincidentally, both of these projects also came in all black mode possibly suggesting a future trend for our Canadian friends.
We'll keep you posted on any other details we can scrounge up for this hot little Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 Project Dakhan.


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Join Now
Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.
Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!
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I've been asked by a client if it's possible to have all the pictures from a recent portrait session on an SD card so they can see them on a digital frame.
Obviously they would be fairly low res and there's alway the risk of them being copied (they've already spent lots on framed images).
Just wondering about the pros & cons and peoples thoughts.
I agree, if they've already spend a lot on framed images and you're happy with the amount of profit you've made then I would let them have the low res images on SD card for free.
It's also good advertising because people who visit that client's house will see more of your work, or other family members might want prints done of images they see on the digital frame.
Quote: images they see on the digital frame
Has to be said the " Digital Photo " frames are the latest must have toy, So they are bound to be a talking point amongst people and thier guests, Probably more so than pulling out the family album....
So the potential for further work as a result is fairly high....!
I'd be tempted to add a logo, Discreetly of course, But that might not go down to well.....
If you know what kind of photoframe it is, then you could resize the images to fit yourself. Trust me, images rezised to fit your average digital photoframe really are not worth copying! Unless it's a large, hi-res one, in which case you could sneak in a wee logo!Last Modified By BubbaG2000 at 9 Apr 2009 - 1:33 PM
This sounds like a great idea actually. With the price of SD cards these days it could be worth offering as opposed to a CD of images...
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***Visit the NEW Twinsburg City School website at*** www.twinsburg.k12.oh.us
Martin AhoTreasurer / CFO330-486-2017
Nancy WagnerAsst. Treasurer330-486-2019
John FrammartinoAccountant330-486-2021
Donna KellyBudgetary Officer330-486-2018
The Treasurer and his staff work cooperatively with the Superintendent to support the District's educational mission. Together all the financial transactions for the District get processed.
"Clean financial books are vital to accountability in government," Auditor Yost said. "The Twinsburg City School District is clearly committed to maintaining accurate records, and I am proud to present this award to the district."
The Auditor of State Award with Distinction is presented to local governments and school districts upon the completion of a financial audit. Entities that receive the award meet the following criteria of a "clean" audit report:
The Auditor of State's office, one of five independently elected statewide offices in Ohio, is responsible for auditing more than 5,600 state and local government agencies. Under the direction of Auditor Dave Yost, the office also provides financial services to local governments, investigates and prevents fraud in public agencies and promotes transparency in government.


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Changes in service on the R, E, F and M subway lines that began Monday night are suspended for the remainder of the week. .
Crews performed maintenance, repairs and clean up work until 5 a.m. on Tuesday, but inclement weather including a snow storm and bitterly cold temps has put the Fast track work on hold.The cancellation allows for the MTA to free up personnel to deal with the snow.
WTXF-TV330 Market StreetPhiladelphia, PA 19106-2796Phone: (215) 925-2929Fax: (215) 982-5494


text:
Bald is Beautiful Hairless & Small Breed Rescue is an organization in Greenville, South Carolina that cares for abused, unwanted, and abandoned dogs.
Their Facebook video of dog dancing on the couch is making people smile and bringing attention to their cause. Take a look at the video, which is attached above.
One commenter, David Galloway, wrote "Happens every time they leave the liquor cabinet unlocked, what can I say we are party animals!"
Several commenters had to spoil the fun with words like, "I think he's just scratching his back and a soundtrack was added...that be my hunch folks," from Jason Durishin. These comments don't stop Faye Bohannon from being amused, "I can laugh for days just thinking about this dancing dog."
So cute!
Join FOX 29's Mike Jerrick and the Good Day Philadelphia team for a tasty night of yummy treats benefiting local youth.
KTBC FOX 7119 East 10th StreetAustin, TX 78701Phone: (512) 476-7777Fax: (512) 495-7001


text:
via the Doctor Who Facebook Page:
England in the 1920s. The Doctor and Romana make a chance discovery of alien technology that leads them deep into the heart of the English countryside where a malign presence lurks…
Doctor Who: The Auntie Matter audio adventure, starring Tom Baker and Mary Tamm, is now available from Big Finish Productions. Listen to the trailer and get your copy here: http://bit.ly/W6z4eh
Reblogging because AUNTIE MATTER


text:
Product Details
- Brand: PAPYRUS
- Contents: 1 Card with corresponding envelope
- Size: 5 in. x 7 in. (127 mm x 178 mm)
- Envelope: Orange with light orange liner
- Materials: Paper
- Process: Colored foil, embossed
- Packaging: Cello sleeve
- Age: All
Now you can use your rewards online. Learn more ›
PAPYRUS believes that life is a celebration.
Our fabulous selection of greeting cards, custom invitations, stationery, gift wrap & more are perfect for any occasion.


text:
The Colorado Avalanche claimed forward Aaron Palushaj from the Montreal Canadiens on Tuesday.
Palushaj, 23, has spent the season with the AHL's Hamilton Bulldogs. He had seven goals and three assists in 21 games before suffering a shoulder injury in mid-January.
The native of Livonia, Michigan was selected by the St. Louis Blues in the second round of the 2007 Draft, and was dealt to the Canadiens for Matt D'Agostini on Mar. 3, 2010.
In 41 career NHL contests - all with Montreal - Palushaj has one goal and four assists.
Also on Tuesday, the Phoenix Coyotes placed forward Alexandre Bolduc on waivers.


text:
Sustainability Matters: June 13, 2014
An exposé by The Guardian reveals human trafficking and slave labor on Thai fishing boats is at work in supplying major supermarket chains (including Walmart and Costco) with cheap shrimp. [The Guardian]
The F.D.A. issued, and then backpedaled from, a ruling banning the use of wood planks in cheese making. [NY Times]
Lower U.S. corn yields are expected in the future as climate change and water shortages affect farmland. [Grist]
What's in the juice? The POM Wonderful v. Coca-Cola Co. Supreme Court ruling could leave the door open for further litigation against deceptive marketing label... Read more >
On The Menu: Week of June 15
Here's what's happening at the Beard House:
Sunday, June 15, 6:00 P.M
Celebrity Chef Tour: Seattle
For reservations or more information, please visit celebritycheftour.com. For sponsorship opportunities, please contact Julie Marshall at 212.633.9145 or email@example.com.
Monday, June 16, 7:00 P.M
Boston Birthday
Christopher Coombs already has a lot to celebrate: he oversees Boston's elegant and acclaimed Deuxave, and he was a 2011 Food & Wine People's Best New Chef nominee. What's more, his birthday is on this date, and he's throwing his own Beard House party, complete with exquisite spring fare and birthday cake!
Thursday, June 19, 7:00 P.M
The Craft of Lehi... Read more >
Throwback Thursday: Adam Rapoport Interviews Daniel Boulud
In 1995, former JBF associate editor Adam Rapoport (who is now Bon Appétit magazine's editor-in-chief) interviewed Daniel Boulud, who had recently won the James Beard Award for Outstanding Chef. In their candid conversation, Boulud revealed a love of motorcycles and a now dated fitness purchase. Read on for more.
AR: Where did you have your last memorable meal?
DB: My last memorable evening – meal, maybe not – was with a thousand people at the Waldorf-Astoria for the Elton John AIDS fundraiser. David Bouley was cooking for a thousand people and I was really impressed by the quality of food. The concert with Elton John and Sting and all these mega movie stars around was great. I don't have the chance to go out and enjoy an evening in New York too often. But that was the highlight of my year almost.
AR: When you do go out, where do you eat?
... Read more >
What We're Reading: June 12, 2014
Just in time for summer, a round up of the nation's most innovative iced coffees. [NYT]
Start-up firm Coffee Blocks suggests swapping egg yolks for milk in your morning brew. [LAT]
New FDA research says expecting moms should eat more fish for healthier babies. [NPR]
Introducing Space Lettuce: NASA begins vegetable production aboard the International Space Station. [NPR]
A Harvard study links breast cancer to re... Read more >
What We're Reading: June 11, 2014
The history of fro-yo in New York, and the new trend that's threatening it's dominance. [Food Republic]
David Beckham confirms rumors about 'Beckham Bistro' opening in the U.S. [Daily Star]
Despite criticism, a Kentucky restaurant defends its "no-tipping" policy. [Cincinnati.com]
What you should know about Mad Cow disease. [ABC]
Mislabeled packages pose a serious threat to those with food allergies. [... Read more >
Ingredient Spotlight: Green Strawberries
When strawberries arrive at markets in spring, brightening folding tables like rescue flares, they affirm the mantra of the seasonal eater: good things come to those who wait. But some chefs have intercepted the fruits before peak ripeness, and now green strawberries, more tart and acidic than their red elders, are showing up on menus at the Beard House and at high-end restaurants around the country.
Whether it signals a new, more subtle shading on the palate of seasonality, or a more elastic idea of what's edible, the trend itself has been developing for a while: in the first season of The Mind of a Chef, aired in 2012, René Redzepi improvised a dish of raw scallops, pea juice, and raw green strawberry slices for David Chang.
The immature... Read more >
What We're Reading: June 10, 2014
Far more than beef and broccoli: niche food-delivery services are on the rise in NYC. [NY Daily News]
In a time of drought, logistics and the law prevent water from flowing to California's needier areas. [NPR]
When it comes to sugar and nutritional value, the differences between fruit juice and soda are few. [NPR]
... Read more >
Eat This Word: Marcona Almonds
WHAT? Prized around the world, Marcona almonds are round, flat, and tan, and the trees on which they grow require tender, loving care. Marconas, which come from Spain, are typically eaten peeled, fried in olive oil, and salted. Spanish cuisine may have more uses for almonds than any other cuisine in the world. Although we once read that almonds "exert a relaxing effect and enhance intellectual activity," we suspect the real reason the Spanish eat so many of them is simpler—taste. It's no wonder they have been called the "queen of almonds."
WHERE? Bay Area Brasserie
WHEN? June 20, 2014
HOW? Crispy Quail Quarters with Fig–Balsamic Sauce, Marcona Almonds, and Piment d'Espelette
What We're Reading: June 9, 2014
Forget kale: camel's milk might be the next superfood. [Citizen Times]
San Francisco's gourmet toast trend is taking the nation by storm. [Market Watch]
Which is better for you, honey or sugar? [Huffington Post]
Suggesting links to deforestation, a new report reveals the potential dark side of doughnuts. [NPR]
Farmed fish might be able to feed the world, but will it destroy the environment? [... Read more >
Rhubarb Desserts
We love rhubarb for the energizing tartness it brings to sweets. Here are a few recipes to try while these springtime stalks are still in season.
Port-Poached Rhubarb with Ricotta and Walnut Crumble
Homemade ricotta transforms this exceptionally simple dish, but high-quality, store-bought ricotta will work in a pinch.
No time to bake a pie? This crunch delivers the same tart, jammy flavor in less than half an hour.
Greek Yogurt Mousse with Poached and Candied Rhubarb
Candied rhubarb: it's our newest obsession. Tart, sweet, and so hard to stop eating. For a simpler version of this dish, pair the ca... Read more >
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