text:
best burgers in T.O.
In Scarborough, you have to go to Johnny's....on Vic Park (southeast corner at Sheppard Ave. E.)
burgers are $2 something!!!
re: goober
Now you're talking!
I had the good fortune of growing up about a mile from Johnny's, and to this day I still have found if not hazy memories of being drunk out of my gourd and filling that craving that we all get in the inebriated state by chowing down on a Johnny's cheeseburger, fries, and Coke.
In those days they always had more guys behind the counter than customers in front, which is saying something given the steady turnover. Most if not all of the guys were Greek, and the place could very well have been the prototype for the "no Coke, Pepsi" Saturday Night Live sketch.
My favourite part was that they used to bend the burger in half to check for doneness. Then they'd slap it on a slightly toasted white bun with lots of French's-quality mustard.
My sensible side says that these aren't the greatest burgers in T.O., but man, I'm salivating right now.
Next time I visit my parents, I'm popping in!
re: Mississauga Matt
re: goober
That's one thing I really missed when I first moved to this area from Windsor...the excellent burgs you could find in Essex County. I really wish I knew of a place in TO like Gilligan's in Windsor, where there are many different types of burgers (and meats) in many different sizes (because sometimes you feel like a little one, and sometimes you just have to stuff as much meat as your body can handle) :)
re: james
burger-shack is far and away the best burger joint "uptown." the frozen burgers are nothing to write home about (i haven't had one in about 9 years). however, the homemade burgers are superb. ask for it medium and you won't be sorry. their fries are certainly above average and blow licks' out of the water. furthermore, the prices are solid and supporting small independant places like that always feels good. don't sleep on the shack.
re: Mississauga Matt
re: goober
Please. Johnny's is garbage. All they do is take a pre-formed frozen patty out of a cardboard box that they buy in bulk and slap it on their grill. It tastes like an out of the box burger. I tried it once to see what the hype is all about. Never again.
Whatever happened to Lick's? Have they shut down all their branches?
re: BeenThere
Oh, please. Johnny's is an institution. Of course they use pre-fab burgers and fries. These guys are short-order cooks, not chefs. The secret is to go for the steak on a kaiser - although, having worked across the street at the now-defunct Texaco station for four years, I scarfed down many a cheeseburger, and still go back from time to time for nostalgia's sake. The steak was tender, heavily salted and garliced, and a great treat.
As for Lick's - they have franchised, and are expanding like crazy. On yonge St. from Finch to Elgin Mills, they have three locations - more than McDonald's! My kids now think Lick's burgers are the best available, much to my pocket book's chagrin. Their big gimmick was (and is) the staff sing songs as the orders come in; it's cute the first few times, but we keep coming back because the burgers are so good. But I can't see buying their uncooked patties to take home - they are so damn expensive, why not just grind some good quality chuck and season it yourself?
re: Kevin Bertsch
Johnny's is an institution? Institution of what? Cardboard burgers? I don't know anything about the steaks. The steaks may be good. But, this thread is about the "best burgers" and not about the steaks.
I have tried their burgers, but I haven't tried their steaks. Actually I had the burger only once and it was AWFUL. Never going back there again.
The Lick's burgers are the best I have tasted in Toronto. But there is no location close to me.
re: BeenThere
If you're from the area you would totally understand why Johnny's is an institution. Went to high school around the corner and Johnny's not John Anderson's was the burger of choice at lunch. Also, many a drunk night was spent in on those pic nic table enjoying their cheeseburger. So maybe it is a pyschological thing but Johnny's cheeseburger with fried onions tomates and bbq sauce still my favorite frozen patty and all.
There are Licks all over the place .... if you've been to Johnny's then there is a licks at york mills/don mills one at cummer/yonge and one at yonge/south of 7.
re: fiasco
lick's is decent, similar but inferior to Groucho's (eglinton and also bayview) neither of which are cheap like Johnny's, the once and future king of greasy goodness. The Senator (open only for lunch) and Allen's on the Danforth are also good if you don't mind spending $10 for prime meat.
re: Dan
I tried Johnny's once and wasn't impressed. Frozen burgers don't get me all excited.
Lick's used to be fantastic but since the explosion of franchises it's gone downhill.
If you're on Yonge, north of Major Mac there's Three Coins on the west side. Outstanding burger and huge to boot. You don't need fries with that.
re: Davwud
The only problem with the the Three Coins (which is just around the corner from my place) is it closes at 3:00 pm - yes, that's PM. I have enjoyed many a breakfast there, but any place that doesn't stay open past 3 in the afternoon can't be a great burger joint; 3 AM would help it qualify.
re: Dan
re: fiasco
re: Kevin Bertsch
re: Kevin Bertsch
re: nickdodes
Licks is now a "burger boutique". Are they serious? Licks was once my favourite burger, until they changed the recipe. Their burgers just don't taste the same as I remember them. They seem more peppery or they added some "spice"/ingredient like they're trying to mask something. There's nothing that competes with a simple burger that gives you the flavour of smoke and beef. The Licks at Morningside Crossing has good service, but again the burgers just aren't the same as they used to be.
re: goober
Craft Burger on King near Bathurst it's the best so far, they have an Organic burger and I believe they even have a Buffalo burger, try their Garlic Mayo.. OMFG it's goood..they have gourmet toppings such as grilled mushrooms with rosemary, caramelized onions.. etc....there fries are even good, but if you don't like fries you have an option of onion rings or even salad.. Just a note seating is limited..it's a small place...and the meat is all fresh not pre-cooked and no fillers..
re: lovleyladyT
Too bad I didn't have the same experience at Craft. I found it very underwhelming and average. Burger was ok. It was juicy but gourmet toppings? Everyone's got those now, it's not a point of difference anymore. Good burger, good bun, that's what makes a burger in my opinion. Oh, and also, it's not only that there is limited seating, the seating that IS available, is usually dirty. It's a pretty grungy place that no one ever seems to mention in their reviews.
re: lovleyladyT
Groucho's and Licks's (both chains) serve very good burgers, way better than Mickey D's or the rest. Also try Burger Shack at the corner of Avenue Road and Eglinton Avenue West. Banquetburger, fries (fresh cut) and a drink for $6.25 all in.
re: LuckyChucky
I think there are still a whole bunch of Lick's locations. I am sure a search will find them for you, or a Canada411. I know the one in the Beach is still there and swamped on weekends.
These were always my favorites even though I go there not too frequently. I went about six weeks ago and the burger tasted really different. It had that kind of springy... sausage like... prefabricated bounciness to it, rather than the real garlicly meatiness it used to have. I thought it was kind of like what a Harvey's burger would taste like if they made them that thick.
I am wondering if I got a really bad batch or if they have changed their product? Anyone know? If that is what I am going to get from Lick's from now on I think I'll skip them and go for the chicken or just go elsewhere...
Wondering if anyone else has noticed this...
Oh... and you can now buy Lick's burgers at Dominion to cook at home!
For a really good hole-in-the-wall experience, try "The Chicken and Burger Place" in Etobicoke at Dundas just East of Kipling, or 5096 Dundas St West (I just looked it up!). Great (and huge!) Banquet Burgers, but the best burger on the menu is the Mixed Burger (there is a Polish/Eastern European name for it which I cant remember). Although not strictly a burger, as the Large Mixed Burger is served sans a split bun (it's way too big), it's awesome - a huge patty stuffed with feta and onions, served with fries and half a raw onion (the pungent sweetness REALLY goes well with it, but it's only for those who dig that sort of thing!) on the side. I used to get this as a treat every weekend - almost makes me want to drive up there a few times (moved quite some distance since).
Give it a try! :)
The Golden Star at Yonge and Steeles has been around forever. They make delicious, juicy homeburgers! I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned.
Seriously, try Sci-Fi Cafe & Grill homemade burgers. It's not a well-known place and it's at Dufferin & Steeles.
I hear a lot about Apache Burger, but I had two friends who had quite violent food poisoning after going there so I'm very hesitant about making a trip down there.
Nobody's mentioned Webers.
Yeah I know it is Hwy #11 (or Barrie or Orillia), but there are now 2 Toronto franchises. At Toronto's Pearson airport - one in terminal 2 and now another in terminal 3.
For a while there I used to choose airlines based on whether they departed from Terminal 3 so I could have a burger on my way out, but now they have opened in terminal 2 so Air Canada can have some of my business back. How sad is that.
Anyway, the Weber Burger is not just for cottagers anymore, although I don't know if they ship their fresh patties down daily - I somehow doubt it.
Check out the website for the restaurant's history -especially the story of the bridge. I had heard that it was installed because people were getting killed crossing four lanes of traffic for the taste of a Webers burger. This appears to be a myth ;-)
BTW photo's not mine - it's off the Weber's site
Link: http://www.webersrestaurants.com
re: Yermum
re: Yermum
I meant to follow up on this a while ago.
Stopped at the Webers at terminal 3 on the way through Pearson airport last month and asked about their patties - while ordering one of course. They DO, in fact, send their homemade patties down fresh to the Toronto locations from Hwy 11.
This is not your pub burger with a big fluffy Kaiser and a thick slab of Bison meat - for that go to the Box and Arrow (Guacamole Shroom Burger is my fave there)- Webers is my choice for an honest to goodness Cheeseburger.
I'd also mention that I have come to these burgers recently, and didn't grow up driving up North. No tradition or nostalgia here.
This is Ontario's version of the White Spot. Very different, but many similarities.
For more info on their hamburgers follow the link below.
re: Yermum
The reason nobody mentioned Webers is because the joint on Hwy 11 serves frozen crap and gives you the choice of mustard, ketchup and relish as toppings. I don't believe how so many people can stand in line for a piece of flavoured cardboard on a stale bun. It must be like the kings new clothes. Its two times for me, the first and the last.
Try an A & W burger if you want a treat... Or have a Harvey's Angus when they are around. If you are on Queen West, stop in at the Rex hotel for an incredible burger and live music.
Webers? You have got to be kidding, or gullible, or both.
re: FraidyMan
re: redearth
re: Connoisseur
re: abigllama
re: abigllama
The most inspired cooking at Webbers is the Lawry's Seasoned Salt on the fries. I agree with abigllama, though. It's doing something right to attract all those customers. I think it's largely families stopping on the way to the cottage, so what pleases kids more than plain straight-up food?
Give Big Stan's a try. They're at in the food court with Amato pizza near Queen & Duncan. I haven't had a bad burger there yet!
Shamrock Burgers, in east, east Scarborough.
or, T-Bones in Scarborough.
re: jameskennedy
re: jameskennedy
re: jameskennedy
I've been going to Shamprock Burgers for years, I enjoy their homeburgers. Their regular burgers are prefab and pretty average, but their homeburgers are pretty darned good. They can be a little expensive though, homeburgers start at around $5. Their onion rings are done in a fish and chip batter and are very different from your standard ring, the grease factor gets to you after about 5 or 6 rings though.... Pretty good fries as well.
They must be doing something right, they just opened a second location in Brooklin.
I just tried Lick's the other day. Just another burger to me. Apache was far superior.
Harry's Drive In Kennedy and Lawerence ..... great burgers with fantastic onion rings.
Apache burgers taste like SCHNEIDER'S STEAKETTES I think it's the nostalgia that draws people back NOT THE TASTE
re: philly cheeze
Yeah, the patties are frozen, with a lot of filler... How they would ever be considered a contender for T.O.'s best burger is beyond me.... My votes would be for Golden Star's All Star Burger, Allen's burger (medium or medium rare, otherwise it can be a little dry, as they use 100% sirloin, ground on the premises), the Burger Shoppe burger (very inconsistent, yes, but when it's good, it's very good), Bronto Burger (Dundas West, west of Keele) - a very tasty, never frozen patty - (I think there may be some bread crumbs in the mix, but it's a very moist and flavourful patty), Shamrock Burger, in Scarberia, and Weber's, of course (if I'm driving up north or flying somewhere out of Pearson!)~!!
Places I would never have a burger at again: Johnny's (one of the worst burgers I've ever had - if people enjoy it for nostalgia's sake, fine, but please recognize that it should never be considered a contender!), Craft Burger (the chewiest, most gristly patty my jaws have ever attempted to work their way through), and Acme Burger (they don't seem to understand that precooking the patties IS NOT A GOOD THING!).
re: redearth
Gotta dispute the Weber's recommendation. It's a great place for ambiance and it marks the "official" beginning of "cottage country" for many. Decades ago, it was one of the few places in the area to serve food that didn't feel threatening. But a good burger?
The real charcoal sure smells good, but the burgers have little taste of meat. Just a skinny, overdone, filler-laced frozen puck. (The "Lick's burgers sold in the supermarket can still taste decent at home if you sear them well and serve them rare. The Weber's burgers from the supermarket are as ghastly as those served at Weber's.) Bad fries at Weber's also.
I've been known to stop at Weber's when driving north, but I ain't gonna say that these burgers are any good. I thought the Pearson location had closed.
Burger Shoppe is pathetic and a ripoff. They are in my neighbourhood. I wanted to love the place. I don't.
re: embee
I will admit that my fondness for Weber's does stem from pleasant childhood experiences - I haven't had them in a while, so perhaps they're not what they used to be. The fact that they grill on charcoal does make a big difference, though. As to whether their airport location has closed, I can't say, as it has also been a while since I've flown out of Pearson.
And, to clarify, I listed Burger Shoppe because the very first time I went there, I had what was one of the best burgers I've ever had in this city. Subsequent visits failed to impress, sadly, but that one burger was enough to include them on my list. I only hope that experience will one day be repeated.
re: redearth
re: jamesm
re: jamesm
I really enjoy the homemade beef burgers at Stampede Bison Grill in Parkdale beside the LCBO. They don't homemake their bison burgers, though, so I haven't tried it. This is a good burger that is great value and I like their thin fries.
My burger find of today is at NINE18 at the Turnberry Golf Course on Bovaird in Brampton. They don't ask you how you want it done, but it automatically arrives done medium (perfect). Homemade fries are disappointing (poor texture and no flavour). The NINE18 burger is slightly better than the one at W Burger Bar downtown, for comparison of taste.
Stampede Bison Grill
5 Brock Ave, Toronto, ON M6K2K6, CA
How about Steer Inn burger on Yonge just south of Major Mac. Another one of those places like Apache. Great onion rings
re: Rickshaw
re: redearth
I live about a mile north of the Steer Inn, and have had many a burger there. How you can say the Steer Inn is great, and rip Johnny's is beyond me; they both serve pre-fab burgers and frozen fries. I agree the steak is good at the Steer, but it's good at Johnny's too.
The Steer has much better onion rings, though. They are the best I've ever eaten, and when we order for the family, we don't even bother with the fries.
re: KevinB
I said nothing about the Steer Inn burger, nor did I say the Steer Inn is great, and my enjoyment of the steak on a kaiser there must be considered in the context in which I put it - after a night drinking at the local strip club. Also, this was many years ago - I hope my palate has improved somewhat since then. I stand by my opinion of Johnny's, though. I have only tried the burger there, simply because it was recommended by so many CHers. It is a terrible burger, albeit cheap.
re: Rickshaw
Hubby and I are die hard burger fans and have had Apache, Johnny's, Burger Shack, Steer Inn, and Lick's but the one that is our hands down winner is Golder Star up in Thornhill. It is one of the places we miss most after moving downtown from the burbs.
While their milkshakes do come from a machine - they are really great - I love the Mocha and Chocolate!
As with all places, don't get the regular burger - pay a little extra and get the homemade version.
Just driving past that place makes your mouth water!
re: FresserBesser
Yeah, lots of us - search this board - you'll find lots!
sorry, but if there's one thing you CANNOT find in this city, its a good burger.
i found a very good joint on Dundas west of the 427. it closed a few years ago.
anyone who mentioned BUrger SHack or Johnny's - you might as well eat at Harveys.
anyone who mentions LIcks? Its great for a chain. for a chain. but i give it a 2 out of 5. their veggieburger is much better than the meat burger.
otherwise, i make my own at home. much better than a resto burger.
re: atomeyes
re: redearth
re: redearth
Late reply to this...
Obviously the point is to find the best burger out there. but time and time again, I get nothing but blandness on a bun.
my last two discoveries aren't bad.
JK Gardiner - very rich and decadent burger. served nice a juicy (read: medium done). bun is a home-made english muffin. nice ketchup, dijon mustard, mayo and relish to apply to burger. melted cheese on it as well. my complaint? very very rich tasting. almost like eating butter. but still a good change of pace.
my favourite burger in the city?
believe it or not, its Fionn MacCool's on the Esplanade. Their Friday night burger special is excellent for taste and value. Takes at least 20 min to get the burger. pretty certain they are made to order. nice and juicy, very good flavour to it. served with pickle and tomato on a bun. fries are homemade and done quite nicely - cooked nice and dark and really flavourful.
All of this for $7 PLUS you can order a pint of McCaffreys to wash it down!
re: redearth
Anyone ever try Magoo's?
I just had the burger at Citizen on Queen Street East and it instantly catapulted to the number one spot in front of The Beaconsfield and Allen's!
re: Urusmaritimus
re: embee
re: embee
Their perfect burger was simple -spiced only with salt and pepper I suspect. It was ultimately flavourful because of the quality of the unctuous soft meat. Juicy, juicy, juicy! The bun was soft and if anything, ever so slightly too large for the patty. They serve it with perfectly sweet and soft caramelized onions, with other condiments on the side.
Not sure about cooking it to taste- I trust the chefs there so I just let them do their thing. I suspect they would accomodate!
It is on their new lunch menu and I'm unsure if it made it to the dinner page. Go get one, fast!
re: Urusmaritimus
There's a place near my office at the 400 & Hwy 7 called Paps Bar & Grill. Usually I would go there for their breakfasts (standard fare but good), but a few weeks ago, I went for lunch and decided on their hamburger and sweet potato fries. It was very good. The hamburger: it was moist, and a little pink inside, nicely seasoned, pretty large, and it seemed to be formed by hand. It was grilled nicely. I do believe that there was filler inside, that it was bound with egg and breadcrumb to give it that texture, but I don't necessarily have a problem with that because it reminds me of my mom's burgers. The bun was soft and good, and definetly NOT previously frozen. The sweet potato fries were thin, crispy and delicious. No clue on whether they were frozen or not, but even if they were frozen, they were damn good! YUM. And the whole thing costs less thatn $10 for a sit down restaurant!
Not your everyday burger, but in my opinion the best burger in Toronto is at the Studio Cafe inside the Four Seasons hotel. This is not a $5 burger, but it is also not the silly $30 burger with the fois gras or any other stuff. It is a no nonsense straight forward burger that is by Toronto standards, great. Fancy hotel prices though.
re: mysterydvr
The quality of the burger at Sizzler's has gone way down even in the past 6 months. It's now really gristly, mal-formed, and they always seem to overcook them no matter what the request. I'm pretty sure they're still homemade though, and cheap, probably a better alternative than the McDonald's and Wendy's that pepper that strip.
I have also been looking for the best burger in Toronto and they are few and far between.
Dangerous Dan's - awful
Licks - not much better
Johnny's - not worth the drive
The Golden Star - also not worth the drive
Here are the two that I do like:
South St. Burger Co. - made fresh daily and all are supposed to be medium rare - BUT ASK FOR IT TO BE MEDIUM RARE OR THEY WILL COOK IT WELL DONE. When they are cooked well done - they taste like all the above - but medium rare - excellent!
Also they have NY Fries which are pretty good. $10 for burger + cheese + fries + drink.
The Abbott on the Hill - also made fresh daily and can be cooked rare or medium rare - excellent. $15 for burger/cheese/fries and soft drink.
re: gordini
re: gordini
South St won't cook to medium rare. They claim that they cook to 160 (medium well), but that the burgers will still be pink. They even ask that you specifically tell them if you want your burger cooked "well done".
In fact, they only (barring a cooking goof) cook to very well done. When I insisted on the pink burger they promised, it took several tries and the intervention of the manager before they got it right. However, the pink burger was still dry and bland.
They do have interesting toppings, a judicious selection of which can add some good flavours and moisture, but the patty ain't got it. They do have great shakes, okay fries, and freshly made (though odd tasting) rings. They are quite expensive for what you get, though not the overt ripoff of Burger Shoppe or (especially) Terra Burger.
re: embee
Speaking of Burger Shoppe, I noticed a sign outside the place the other day advertising a Hawaiian burger (pinneaple, I guess, gross on a burger) and a hot dog, which is probable "premium". the first thing I thought was that their business is going downwhill, so they're expanding the menu. I used to really enjoy the burger there, but the last few times, dry and burned. And since the poutine is nothing special, there's no reason for me to go.
re: grandgourmand
re: grandgourmand
I saw a recipe for what they called an "Australian" burger in a very recent issue of Gourmet. They described it on the cover as the burger that would change your life.
It sounded really gross. However, it wasn't April 1 and Gourmet, whatever its failings, doesn't tend to run gross-out recipes (at least, not intentionally).
I really prefer my burgers to taste mainly of burger, with perhaps some good cheese in the center, but I couldn't resist. I topped an Oliffe "Kobe" burger with a slice of grilled pineapple, a slab of old cheddar, and a fried egg with a still runny yolk, plus some onion, tomato, and mayo. I wouldn't want to eat this very often, and it certainly wasn't "life changing", but it was actually extremely good - almost decadent.
re: Davwud
My burger from Jetsun was par-cooked and taken out of a stainless steel pan full of liquid on the grill and finished when I ordered it. The Lick's comparison was spot on.
I talked about it in a blog post last week.
There's a little place on Runnymede, north of Dundas St West. Jumbo Burger. Of course, it might just be nostalgia but I love the burgers. And the fries. And the onion rings. Sigh...
re: redleaf55
Speaking of Runnymede - what about the Yellow Griffin Pub? I've only been once, and I'm not one to speak about quality of burgers, what do others think about it? They've got a wide selection of burgers there ...............
re: redleaf55
Im with you. I used to hangout there a lot when i was younger. My school wasn't too far away and the place is open really late so finding food in the late hours of the night was simple. Not that it was forced it was really good. I really enjoyed the food there and it brings back a lot of good memories when i drive by.
No matter how you feel about "upscale" burgers, I still contend that Bymark has the best burger in town.
re: tjr
I would like to know of burger joints with just two upscale qualities: shoulder beef ground on site daily; hand made patties cooked to order, including medium rare. This is the same level of care we expect at a good fish and chips place, but it is surprisingly elusive for burger places.
re: sugarcube
re: jayt90
I like trying something different and innovative, so Bymark's rendition of a burger and fries caught my eye.
The lobster was not intrusive to the poutine's flavour and the presentation was lovely. The lobster shell was cut vertically and served on the platter in a ying yang manner. Chunks of plump lobster meat settled in nicely with the mound of crisp frites.
The waiter mentioned it was 'poutine style', so in lieu of cheese curds, there was a generous drizzle of béarnaise.
There was definitely beef and a whole lot of it in the burger. You could order it rare because it was U.S.D.A prime beef. It was oh so tender. Alas, there was no fois gras on the burger, but rather shaved truffles. The truffles provided a slight earthiness but my mistake was eating it with the burger, as opposed to taking it off and enjoying it on its own... the subtle flavour was overpowered by the other elements (meat . brie, pancetta)
re: jayt90
While I love a great burger in general, I haven't had better than Bymark's in Toronto. I have been to Allen's, and their burger is great too. The smaller shops, in my experience, often don't have very great burgers (though there are several exceptions).
The lobster "poutine" at Bymark is also great. The only thing I don't like about the burger there is that the onion rings can be fairly bland. They will switch them out with their excellent fries though, if you ask (and if you didn't already have the poutine, haha).
Whether or not a burger is supposed to be topped with brie or truffles is another story, but it's definitely the best tasting burger I've had in the GTA.
Recently, I have felt a certain drive....a drive to find the best, tastiest, hard earned cash-worthy burger in the greater Toronto area. It was a quest I took on with ferocity and one I didn't take lightly. I tried all the ones recommended to me:
The Camel's pulled pork sandwich - at $9 completely not worth it.
Johnny Burgers - greasy and nostalgic
Golden Star - flashback on a bun. Nice and big and juicy!
Bismark - tasty but chokingly expensive
Fire on the Eastside - best lamb burger ever eaten - all burgers should be served open-faced on one slice of herbed focaccia
Licks home burger - greatness with guk
Webbers - classic burger that is nice and juicy but not too greasy that you don't want to jump in the lake when you get up north.
But hands down, the greatest burger I've ever tasted in my life (and trust me, I've eaten a LOT of burgers) was this week at The Globe Bistro. I have never had something that tasted so much like how I imagine a burger SHOULD taste like. It was supersonic juicy on the best house-made bun with parmesan/rosemary fries, handmade smokey ketchup and I think just a little dash of heaven.
If you want to taste an amazing hamburger, please give The Globe a try.
re: Doritolover
"Golden Star - flashback on a bun. Nice and big and juicy"
Nice and big and juicy??? Have I been going to the wrong golden star? Their burger patties are like 1/4th of an inch thick every time I order it, and to me seems basically like the same old burger you'd get almost anywhere else. Comparable to Sonny's, or Johnny's, or Apache maybe even.
I never understood the hype on this place even after eating there a couple times. Do they have 2 kinds of burgers or something? Maybe I've been asking for the wrong one
re: duckdown
re: duckdown
I found the Golden Star homeburger to have a nice irregular shape with excellent charred highlights and was well presented (see photo), but it was also very thin. It was a lot like having an upscale McBurger. Quite tasty, very easy to eat, needs the cheese, bacon, lettuce, and onion to fill out the experience, but totally forgettable in the long run.
I really enjoy just eating a plain burger from M&M with heinz ketchup. Reminds me of my first year on campus when there would be free burgers in res every other week. Simple and definitely quells the burger craving.
I visited Allen's recently and I had a rare burger with goat cheese. It was actually cooked rare (a rarity in Toronto), the bun was wonderful with a good mix of squish to crisp and the meat itself was rich and silky. I felt the burger could have used a little more intense beef flavour and some salt, but once I added salt, I was very pleased.
Having explored the various joints recommended in this thread, I can confidently conclude that the Allen's burger is probably the best burger in the city.
$10.50 for the burger with goat cheese.
(I still wouldn't mind a good 5$ burger though :P )
WOW!!!! Big Boy's Come out to Ajax - yes, way way out here! Whites Rd. & Kingston SE corner in the strip mall. 1/2 #, toasted kaiser, handmade, never frozen, toppings galore - is juicy without being obnoxious about it. I prefer my WD and it is perfect. And the fries... did I mention the fries? Large cut, rustic (peel on) very crisp with fluffy potato inside.
The Big Boy combo is $8.95 - burger w/ all the toppings, fries and canned drink. I have not ventured out further than this but they have other menu items - including a deep fried mars bar (surely a heart-attack waiting to happen???).
This puts Johnny's (Scarberia) to shame for quality, speed, friendly service etc. Seats are very guyish - looks like a truck w/ galvanized metal tables and chairs that are actually car seats. 2 large screen TV's. Busy and capable. Highly recommend!!!
re: Food Tourist
I haven't tried Harbord Room's burger yet but if it's like the rest of the food there it would be amazing. The best burger I've had recently was down the street at Loire Casual Gourmet - it was thick, juicy, pink on the inside, and served on Harbord Bakery's delicious challah.
I must confess that I haven't read all the posts above, but tried Craft Burger for the first time last week. Uh, it was OK, but just OK. After all the raves I've heard about this place, I was expecting it to be a burger epiphany, but it wasn't. Nothing wrong with the burger, had some juciness to it, but I didn't find any "beefy" flavour to it, or that nice char-broil/grill taste. Also, the fries that came along with it were HORRIBLE. They had a paprika-seasoned salt, almost artificialness to them and were extremely salty. I love salt. I add it extra onto almost everything, so if this was salty for me, it was very, very salty. One of us had the onion rings; it looked like it was panko-crusted but soggy, and they were stuck together.
Anyway, all in all what was also hard to swallow was the $25 bill that came with it...2 burgers, 1 fry, 1 onion ring, 2 drinks. I wouldn't have minded so much if they were above average.
Not in TO but in Grimsby -- Joe Dog's. Excellent burgers. It's on the main drag just east of Ontario Street. Great decor, too. They have one in Burlington but I haven't tried it. My reason for going to Joe Dog's is that they have prime rib that's superior to Outback's every Saturday and it's only 13.99 with a caesar salad and fries. They actually serve it rare. But back to the burger; it's so large you might want to pass on the bun and they do a great job of seasoning it.
BTW, do you know that the major chains DO NOT add any seasoning to the meat -- not even salt. The formula they all follow (I'm talking about the U.S. based franchises) is 100% pure beef with about 17% fat content. All the flavouring is in the bun.
I've heard a lot about Allen's burgers. I've lived closeby for years but have never ventured in there. I heard the burger isn't even on the menu, so are there any other "tips or tricks" to getting a good meal at Allens? Just ask for a burger? Do I have to order fries/rings separately or condiments?
re: szw
Just order it. You get Dijon, E.D. Smith ketchup, and some good relish. Everything else is extra. You can order it cooked to taste, including rare. If it comes overdone, I send it back.
I don't think they have rings. The smoked potato salad is very good. Fries (plain and sweet potato, which you can mix) are fresh and okay, but not great. They have most of the standard condiments - the several available cheeses are real.
As to the other food, all I can say is look through the many threads on this board. Some things are good, pricey, but worth it. Other things are reliably bad (e.g., the curries). Many things are much too expensive for what they are, whether good or not. I wouldn't order a $40 steak here.
The beer selection is excellent, but expensive.
re: szw
The only reason people like Allens is cause they will cook it rare - hence why it isnt on the menu. If you like it rare then go for it. IMO its gross. Out of all the up and coming new places around the city I still find the Gourmet Burger Company on Parliament to be consistently the best. Just dont expect your patty to need a "pad" when served.
re: MindGrinder
There are at least several places that will cook a rare burger, and that isn't why the burger is technically not on the menu. GBC is just another "gourmet" burger joint looking for the possibility of starting a franchise, but with dry patties that lack seasoning, not even in house gourmet toppings can save it.
I'm not a huge fan of Allen's, but GBC is far from the best burger in the city.
re: tjr
re: Googs
Hi Googs, I don't post on most restaurants I visit, usually only if something is mentioned. I've only been to GBC once, and would probably not return; I had a burger with "The Works," with fries and a drink. I requested rare, they cooked it to about medium, but I was in a rush so I didn't bother sending it back. The patty, while pink, was dry; they likely use fairly lean meat. It was also underseasoned (for me). The bun was a kaiser. The fries were fine. My friend had an "Aussie Burger," well-done, and enjoyed it.
It seems like most of the other "Gourmet" burger places that are sprouting up like weeds.
re: MindGrinder
It isn't just about "rare". It is a beefy, juicy burger with great flavour. That they will cook it rare isn't why it's not on the menu.
This was a shtick from before their burgers were discovered by the media- one of those "I'm in the know" gimmicks". At that time, most restos other than fast food places, and even Lick's, would serve a rare burger.
They sometimes promote their burgers on table cards.
Sorry to have to post something negative but Casey's at Yorkdale is not the place for good service and good burgers. They all come very well-done unless you chose the Bison one but it is as thick as a loonie, mid-rare and very spicy. The accompanying fries came lukewarm but the bill was $20 with tip and for what I got -- and mostly what I left on my plate is extravagant.
I had high hopes for the Drake Hotel Burger after reading reviews which sung its praises. Although it was tasty (a good charred crust, juicy meat, cooked medium) unfortunately, by the second bite, I bit into a chunk of gristle. Startled by it and uncertain about what happened I accidentally swallowed it and continued eating my burger. However, when I bit into ANOTHER piece of gristle, I had quite enough. I just didn't want to continue on the chance of biting onto another 'landmine'. I caught the second piece in my mouth and brought it to my waitress's attention. While the waitress was more than friendly/helpful about alleviating the situation (my burger and tart were on the house and she offered to replace the burger meal, which I declined), I won't be trying that burger again anytime soon.
I've been to many of the places mentioned. Apache is tasty, but way too greasy. Allen's is mediocre. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Utopia on College. Its cheap and a generous potion, and they have great fries. Nota Bene does a great burger, but its expensive. Finally I quite like Craft burger, but I find it a little expensive for fast food.
re: dubchild
re: dubchild
re: aser
It might just be me but I find all this medium rare/rare burger business hogwash. To me, a burger tastes best medium. I find that often with medium rare/rare the beefy taste I love in burgers is very much muted. I find with medium it is plenty juicy and you get more beef flavour out of the cooked ground meat. I don't know….. could just be me. I guess to each their own. Medium rare is fine and all, and it is nice and soft but not necessarily my first choice. At the very least I don't think a burger cooked medium is a bad thing. Far from it. A steak… I'll take mine red and bloody but not rare. Again, muted taste when rare. Not beefy. Which to me is the whole point of having steak or a burger.
re: magic
I don't think it's "hogwash," but people certainly enjoy their meats cooked to different temperatures. I know people who aren't put off by red meat, but like their meats well done because that's the flavour they enjoy most. Not my personal preference, but so be it for others.
I prefer beef anywhere from raw to medium rare. Medium rare is probably the farthest I'd be willing to go; medium is unappealing.
re: tjr
What I find a bit discomforting is the notion that a good hamburger precludes those cooked medium. That somehow the marker of good restaurant is one that cooks burgers to medium rare or rarer. It's nice to have choice yes, and if an establishment is providing the option one would hope that they are confident in their product and kitchen staff, or grind on premises. Which is great! But to me cooking to medium rare does not, on its own, instantly qualify a place as one I must visit. As if somehow, if they cook to a customer's request, that means their burger rocks. That is what I find hogwash. I've had a lot of the medium rare cooked to order burgers on this board, and while most of them are good and cost more, at the end of the day, honestly, they're not better than a mom+pops local fry joint in most cases. Also, personally, I just like the taste of medium better.
re: magic
I agree with you. I happen to like my burgers seared outside and rare within. However, cooking the burger rare doesn't mean much if it doesn't taste good. A bad burger is a bad burger, whether rare, medium, or beyond. A poorly seasoned, dry, gristly rare burger doesn't "rock".
I'm okay with medium. I am not okay with "medium well", which is the minimum doneness you can get at most Toronto restos of any type.
The chains, and many independents, all cook universally beyond "well done". To my palate, even the best beef going no longer tastes good long before that point.
re: magic
If a restaurant isn't willing to cook to medium rare, it says a lot about their confidence in their meat quality. It might not always guarantee a great burger, but it's one of those telltale signs I use to find a good burger joint. Process of elimination so to speak.
My preferences are the same as tjr's.....
re: magic
I don't think a burger cooked rare is automatically good, but my preference is more towards this. I've enjoyed burgers that were medium or above, but I'm sure they would have been better less well done as well.
As embee said, bad is bad. As aser notes, if they won't cook a rare burger, they may not be confident in the quality of their product.
re: tjr
Yeah, these are all good points. I for sure agree. I just felt compelled to vent that medium rare/rare need not be the litmus for quality, although yeah, it does bode well for a place if it at least tries to pay attention to the kind of details involved in cooking this way. As embee and ya'll have noted, there are other areas where skill and attention to detail come into play. For me it's mainly about love, juiciness, and seasoning. Places should be judged by how good their burger tastes, first and foremost. I know it's an obvious thing to say, but sometimes I feel people lose sight of this. And I think we've all been to places/had burgers at home that were done medium and were fantastic. Not to take anything away from those who prefer medium rare/rare, not at all. It's just medium need not equal dry. I won't eat dry. Medium done right is a pleasure!
re: magic
That's okay, everyone has their own preference! I don't think most of the people here think a burger done medium is a travesty, but rather that the incidence of overly well done burgers in Toronto is pretty high. Sure, a well done lover's paradise, but not so much for those of us who prefer our burgers on the rare side. So it makes for a tough search to find somewhere that will cook burgers to our preference. Luckily, the best burger I've had in Toronto is probably the one I'm not going to be making at home anytime soon (Bymark), so I'm perfectly satisfied.
re: tjr
I too think Bymark serves the best burger in the city. I loath to bring it up here because people get all uppity about the cost. Plus it really is unfair to compare it to other burgers in the city, it's in a league of its own.
I think I'll head to Golden Star now to satisfy an old school type craving.
re: aser
re: grandgourmand
The Bymark burger was amazing and I noticed a similar rendition being offered at Mark McEwan's One Restaurant (dubbed on the menu as the 'Ultimate Street Burger'). Have you tried this one?
re: magic
Magic brought up a good point which should be developped a little better. "...confident in their product and kitchen staff, or grind on premises.". Ground beef is some of the dirtiest meat out there, that's why its so cheap. Not only is it coming from a part of the animal which may or may not be unclean, but it has been all mixed together and exposed to air. If its been mixed with seasonings, well now you have cross contamination. Fast food joints cook burgers through for safety reasons. It is possible that an establishment will grind a cut of meat to order, season it and form a patty. The questions to ask yourself are, how much am I paying for this burger, and what volume does this restaurant do. If its busy and an inexpensive burger, you're gambling with your stomach. I seriously doubt even the high-end places grind burgers to order.
For the record, I like Allen's. It has a great pub atmosphere, nice staff, one of the best beer lists in the city, and, in my opinion, consistently mediocre food.
re: dubchild
Of course no place grinds to order, that's suicide for the staff, it makes no sense at all for a restaurant to do this.
The main thing about grinding your own meat is that the meat is most likely from a couple cows at worst. Whereas factory ground beef is a molotov cocktail of thousands of cows mixed in one batch. That's the biggest difference.
re: aser
As I understand it, sometimes meat processors do not have the hygienic conditions required for ground beef that is going to be cooked to rare/medium rare. There is bacterial contamination from innards, etc. On a solid piece of beef (steak, roast) that will be thoroughly cooked on the outside but not the inside, that is fine, as the inside has never been contaminated, but as ground beef has the outside on the inside, it needs to be cooked through thoroughly when from such a source, especially for people with compromised immune systems, children and seniors.
The restaurants that are willing to serve steak tartare and burgers rare must know their meat, where it comes from, how it was cleaned and cut and ground (some of which they may do themselves), and they are confident that such contamination has not occurred.
re: Full tummy
re: embee
Wow! How do you always know everything? Hahahaha.
That seems ridiculous. Is this lawsuit fear in the extreme? What makes them do these things?
There must be places using non-pasteurized meat, as from time to time, there is a serious food-poisoning problem. Think there was one a couple of years ago north of Toronto...
re: Full tummy
Well that's exactly my point, you have more control over what goes in, a couple cows vs thousands of cows. The odds are definitely against you with the latter.
Then again, if food safety laws were strictly enforced to the tee, you would not be eating any charcuterie at the black hoof.
It's a personal choice, some will eat ground beef at medium rare, others won't. Plus I have a stomach of a pigeon anyway thanks to eating really suspect asian streetfood as a kid. Built up my tolerance....
re: aser
Iron stomach! I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't have a lot of trouble eating carpaccio, but ground beef gets a bit absurd when even a spot of pink appears. E. coli isn't exactly present in all beef, but if you don't know the provenance of your ground beef, obviously you'd be a bit scared to serve your customers something less than well done.
I've often seen irradiated beef in the US. I'm not sure if embee, or anyone else who does a lot of cross border shopping has any knowledge about it. I was under the impression that, despite the "horrifying" concept of irradiation, that the beef was free from E. coli and whatnot. I'm not really sure what the health risks of eating irradiated beef are, nor do I really care to eat it, but perhaps this could solve the problem?
re: magic
re: aser
re: dubchild
i haven't found the patties at utopia to be beefy enough in flavour. while certainly satisfying this is where they fail a bit for me. i actually find the allen's burgers to have great flavour. they do a good job of rare but i'm starting to think i'd rather do it a bit medium rare to get some good juices flowing in it.
I doubt if anyone could find a better Burger than at T-Bones in Scarborough. For $4.99 you get an 8 oz. homemade sirloin burger which, when loaded, you can hardly get your hands around let alone your mouth and a fresh order of homemade fries cooked to perfection! You cannot go wrong with their steak dinners either!
i might get blasted for this but i dont know whats so great about Goldenstar burgers. maybe it was the day i went but the burgers were subpar at best. they were small and very "ordinary". maybe i orderd the wrong burger.
But a burger that i was very impressed with was the one at Stockyards. it was surprisingly tasty. definiately worth a try. kind of pricy though
re: ttran88
You must have ordered the regular hamburger. They sell a regular, frozen patty that you would get at any dirt ball place. its terrible.
However, they also sell a Homeburger, which is they're store made burger that I find quite flavorful.
Most people who go for their first time end up getting the regular burger because Goldenstar doesn't clearly advertise the distinction other than it being on the menu...
I'm sure I have said it on this board before, but I currently still hold the record at Goldenstar for a Quadruple Homeburger. (thats right)
Its been a while since I've been, but I plan on writing a proper review on it one of these days.
re: Jamie Eats Burgers
re: ttran88
re: Jamie Eats Burgers
Get Yourself over to The Real McCoy in Scarberia. (Markham Rd & Brimorton Dr). I guarantee that you're gonna be a convert.
Order the Mojo Burger (homemeade patty with cheese and grilled bacon) and fresh-cut fries with gravy, or hand-dipped ontion rings, and you'll notice that it's very similar in style to Golden Star or Burger Shack, but each element is just that much better.
No rhyming grillman, and it's take-out or stand at the tiny window-ledge counter only, but definitely TO's best old-school greasy-spoon burgers, fries, onion rings and they make a hella-good neighborhood-style pizza too!
re: Jamie Eats Burgers
re: Davedigger
re: OTFOODIE
I agree with Jamie; if you order the regular burger, you're going to get the same frozen deal that you can get in a dozen places around Toronto. You need to order the (more expensive) home burger, which is a fresh, not frozen, patty. And, like "magic" above, I order it medium. I want the extra char on the outside, and while I order my steaks blue-rare, the consistency of almost raw ground beef just doesn't do it for me.
Now, let's keep it going, folks! Six more weeks, and this thread moves into Year 7!
re: FrankD
re: FrankD
you can even ask the grill man to put on some worchestershire sauce while its grilling. Nothing beats some sweet MSG to enhance the flavour.
I have a suspicion that they include Worcestershire it in their base mix to begin with. However, they won't tell me the secret recipe.
after this discussion, I think I'll going tonight.
re: Jamie Eats Burgers
re: Jamie Eats Burgers
re: Googs
re: Googs
After salty, sour, bitter and sweet, umami is considered our fifth sense of taste. Umami refers to the presence of glutamic acid, an amino acid with salty/savory characteristics. Its presence gives food more depth in flavor, or character. Umami is present in seafood products such as anchovies. Real Worcestershire Sauce is a complex mixture of many natural sources of glutamate, It's a potent brew of anchovies, tamarind, soybeans, vinegar, garlic, shallots, onions, salt, molasses and sugar.
Monosodium glutamate (MSG).is a common and cheaper flavour enhancer that contains the same umami glutamates.
re: longolame
Lea & Perrins FAQ page specifically says there is no MSG in the product. However, "natural flavours" is listed on the ingredients, which is a known catch-all term for hiding ingredients that contain glutamate, such as Calcium Caseinate; Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein (HVP), Hydrolyzed Plant Protein (HPP) , Yeast Extract, Autolyzed Plant Protein, Sodium Caseinate, Autolyzed Yeast, etc. These ingredients are found in virtually all fast food, and a person sensitive to MSG needs to avoid the hidden forms as well.
re: CeeQueue
Ingredient List: http://www.leaperrins.com/lea-perrins...
"Natural Flavorings": http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4676616/
No MSG as far as I can tell.
re: Googs
No, no MSG. But glutamate, which will usually bother people who are sensitive to MSG, is commonly found among those flavourings referred to in the second paragraph of the answer. Labelling laws need to change so companies have to say "no glutamates," which includes MSG, rather than "no MSG," which doesn't include glutamates.
re: CeeQueue
And as mentioned before, anchovies are a major source of natural glutamates. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the physiological reactions experienced after a meal that is laced with MSG (monosodium glutamate), is because of the salt (sodium) component. It is known that combining glutamates with salt significantly increases their potency. A big salt hit can really hit the body hard.
Luckily I seem to have no immediate, obvious adverse reactions to glutamates or sodium but I do need to take medication to reduce my blood pressure. So I struggle to keep that great tasting salt to a minimum.
One of the best burgers I've ever had was from a place called Ciro's located on Bloor and Lansdown.
re: harrisar
re: mykeylykey
re: mykeylykey
re: jayt90
re: CeeQueue
re: jayt90
re: jayt90
Got to Collegiate Lunch today and tried the Collegiate Burger combo. A really good, honest diner burger. Came cooked a perfect medium without even asking. Very fresh, flavourful tomato (so rare to find!). The fries are the frozen variety, but still pretty good. For $5.75, which included decent-quality processed cheese (as opposed to the really thin, cheap stuff that disappears into the bun) and two full strips of perfectly-cooked bacon...you can't go wrong.
Thanks for the reco, Jayt. By the way, have you tried their home fries? They ran out of fries after my order and I saw people getting what looked like crispy, golden home fries with maybe some peppers and onions (they went by too fast).
The place was quite busy at 4:30 when I left (all 4 booths full and a couple more at the counter). Very friendly service, too.
Collegiate Lunch
1024 Gerrard St E, Toronto, ON M4M1Z5, CA
re: jayt90
jayt90, consider the hours edited in. You have to "apply" now to have editing/adding privileges. Here's the link:
re: mykeylykey
Maybe you should rename the list to top 5 mid-scale fast food burger joints.
Also, I had a burger from European meats just now, I would put that way ahead of any of those.
I'm not sure what the mix is (probably scraps since it is a butcher shop) but the burger is pretty wild because it has bitter/sour notes to the beef, yet there is that high fat taste and feel.
best tasting burger I've had in a long time actually.
re: Jamie Eats Burgers
re: Vinnie Vidimangi
re: jayt90
The burger is $2.29 plus tax, from memory.
The bun serves only as a containment modality. The patty is quite large, even after cooking. It contains lots of industrial stuff and includes beef. The flavouring is coarse. The patty has been frozen. It is way over- cooked en masse. (The use of French does not imply that French cooking techiniques have been used.) Then the patties are put into a container. The are taken out as ordered (a la minuit!) and cooked again for five to ten minuits, or until done. What is remarkable is that the patties stay a decent size.
The toppings are rudimentary. No tomato ,lettuce, brie or foie gras. Sauerkraut, off brand yellow mustard, off brand ketchup, onions.
European Meats supplies hot dog carts.
The price is right, and the taste of the burger stayed with me for many hours, for better or worse.
re: mykeylykey
We went to W Burger Bar on College just west of Yonge tonight for the second time. We'd previously had excellent bison and lamb burgers; this time we tried the beef burgers and they were fabulous -- 7 ounces of juicy, naturally raised Ontario beef. Great texture and flavour, and perfectly cooked to the medium degree of doneness I'd requested. Love their homemade panko-crusted onion rings, too. We were happy to see that they've resolved their service issues, as well.
Tom's Burgers 5775 Hwy 7 on the south side near Ovida blvd. Across from No Frill's . They have preformed Schneider burgers. Then they have a fresh ground beef burger with seasonings in the meat, kinda like garlic. The home made burger. I order two and I think they are worth the drive to Tom's. Tom's looks like a small joint, nothing fancy. I will drive from Mississauga to this place. Try the home burger and post your thoughts right here
Apache are not burgers worthy of best in T.O. Neither are Johnny's or Harry's, or Square Boy for that matter. Forget orange pleather seating and old Greek guys with no hair nets and their shirts half open, we are looking for the best burgers. Nostalgia has no place in the conversation.
My votess: if budgeting, or want quick take out: Magoo's.
if budget and time are not an issue, by far the best burger I've ever had (and there hasn't been many here that I haven't tried, is MyPlace Canadian Pub, Jane and Bloor. I think it's about $16, but man, it's awesome.
Square Boy
875 Danforth Ave, Toronto, ON M4J1L8, CA
Nota Bene will be coming out with a ' Wagyu Brisket Burger' in the month of May!! If this is a reflection on how Chef David Lee prepares his food and grilled his steaks ( always deliciously smokey and perfect! ), then the 'Best Burger' crown might be heading their way?!
Nota Bene
180 Queen Street West, Toronto, ON M5V 2A1, CA
re: Charles Yu
Oh my -- one of the best dishes at the Brickworks Picnic back in 2008 was chef Lee's Wagyu brisket burger cooked on a Big Green Egg. It was smokey, beefy goodness personified. He didn't grind the brisket, rather it seemed shredded, or at least very, very roughly chopped. It would be lovely if the Nota Bene version were similar. Not sure if they've got a Big Green Egg set up outside, but that would be heavenly.
Nota Bene
180 Queen Street West, Toronto, ON M5V 2A1, CA
re: TorontoJo
Does anyone have any more info on the Wagyu brisket burger at Nota Bene? I am going on Saturday and would like to know if they are indeed serving it yet.
I've spoken to a couple of staff while booking my reservation and they did not seem overly informative (or informed) in regards to the Wagyu brisket burger. They essentially had no idea what I was talking about. Which to me is a bit of an early dubious sign, already creating an odd impression on me seeing as this is my first Nota Bene experience.
Regardless, any info would be appreciated. Thanks!
I'd like to nominate Great Burger Kitchen. I've been twice. The first time I was very happy and the second time I had the lamb burger and it was fantastic. I subbed out the blue cheese for feta.
My buddy had a bacon double cheese burger and said it was one of the best burgers he's had.
Great Burger Kitchen
1056 Gerrard St E, Toronto, ON M4M 1Z8, CA
re: Davwud
Must get back there soon. Anyone have fries? Poutine? If so, how were they this time round?
Edit: Btw, you might consider posting a review on Chow... The handful of reviews are almost without exception by people who have never posted to Chowhound... And they're universally negative.
re: Full tummy
re: Full tummy
Wow, those reviews actually seem... unbelievable. We've been twice and have had very nice experiences. Much better bargain than The Burger Shoppe and the poutine, indeed, is really great. We've heard similar reviews from others in the hood. Not sure where this mass of unhappy reviewers came from.
Burger Shoppe
688 Queen St E, Toronto, ON M4M1G9, CA
I know this may sound strange, but the best burger i had in this city has to be the Bacon-Cheese burger from Swiss Chalet. I am 100% serious. I was totally forced to order this burger by a friend, as he guarenteed that I will love it. Mind you, we only visit the one in Markham off Woodbine Ave North of Steeles.
I dare you to try it, u will be toally surprised!
Now other than Swiss Chalet, I love Hero Burgers, they have the best gourmet toppings.
The 6 oz With Peameal Bacon and cheese is absolutely delectable.
I have tried the burger shack, and their burgers are pretty good, next time no fries or onion rings. They were a tad too greasy and distracted us from the actual taste of the burger.
Dangerous Dan's Diner, from what I hear have a great burger, apparently voted the best in T.O... Will try in the near future.
Bon appetite!
Hero Burgers
100 Wellington W, Toronto, ON M5H3X7, CA
After having read all the comments here dating back some SEVEN years, I can see how much passion some people have regarding the simple burger. It all boils down to personal taste. Some of you who hate Johnny's have recommended places that some of us would shun after trying their burgers. For me the burger has to be juicy and with simple flavours i.e. salt, pepper, (and smoke if cooked over charcoal). Gourmet toppings? Then you're ruining your burger, but that's IMHO. Johnny's, yes they are pre-fab and they don't hide that fact, is juicy and has decent flavour. Golden Star was a very good burger when I had it years ago, I can't comment on it now, also juicy and simple flavours. My biggest disappointment was Big Boy's at BOTH locations. I had high expectations of this place considering the hype I heard about it from others. I basically got an over priced dried out burger with not much flavour. It kind of reminded me of the burger at Wimpy's, big but dry. Hot House Cafe, IMO, did have a very good burger (again it was years ago when I last had their burger so I can't comment on it's current state) and the server would ask how you wanted it done. Lick's is now a "burger boutique", and though they are not dry, the flavour seems to have changed in their burger. It just tastes different now and I'm not sure if different is good. Of the chains, I really enjoyed A&W's Uncle and Papa burgers. I found them very juicy (Scarborough Town Centre location) and flavourful. I had the sliders at Pickle Barrel during a Bar Mitzvah and they were quite good.
Hot House
35 Church Street, Toronto, ON M5E 1T3, CA
IMO Best in T.O.
Grindhouse Burger Bar (King West )
Original Indian Motorcycle (Temperance)
Craft Burger & Gourmet Burger Company make mediocre attempts at being a "gourmet burger".
Big Smoke Burger
573 King St W, Toronto, ON M5V1M1, CA
Grindhouse Burger Bar
365 King St W, Toronto, ON M5V 1K1, CA
Just had a burger at Woody's Burgers on Lakeshore Blvd near 40th Street. I am not a big burger fan in general, however this was one of the best burgers I've ever had. I had the Gorgonzola stuffed burger and it was yummy. They offer lots of different condiments/sauces/mayo's to add to your burger. I did not have a side dish so can't rate those, although they offered salads, fries and sweet potato fries. They have a website woodysburgers.com I say this place is a must try.
re: fryerlover
re: duckdown
My burger was well done, no red in the middle, and I do like to see red. However I did not find it overcooked or dry, although maybe the gorgonzola covered that up...lol.
I'm not much of a pulled pork fan, although that could be becuase I've never had a good one. I had one years ago at Hard Rock cafe and so much sauce the bread was saugy and it was dripping grease......that kinda turned me of of pulled pork.
Brand new place called The Burgers Preist ("redeeming the burger one at a time") just opened at Queen E and Coxwell across from Harvey's. Amazing high quality burgers. Try the veggie - aka 'The Option". I'm not a burger person and I love this place.
re: frelma
For those who don't know, you must cook a burger to a minimum of 160 degrees (that's about medium well), it's the ministry of health's standards and could cost the business owner a law suit and his entire business to cook the meat any less. The best burger can be measured in a few ways. 1. Quality; if you're looking for real quality then get ready to open your wallet. 2. Quantity or Value: a cheap and tasty burger ie; Apache or Johnny's is sometimes all you need. I think south street is the opposite of both, way to expensive for what they're serving. Having said that, the bun is just as or more important that the beef in between, it can save or ruin a burger. In any case don't confuse quantity with quality, and most of us have cravings for both.
re: toburger
re: childofthestorm
re: jayt90
It's actually an Ontario Health Regulation. My guess is any place that grinds their meat on-site can cook it to whatever temp they want.
Burger law: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/5556...
re: childofthestorm
found this, but didn't bother to varify the source...I'm quite certain it's true.
"Isn't anyone familiar with Ontario Regulation 562, which is reportedly upheld by Toronto Public Health? It states that the internal temperature of ground meat (except poultry) must be 160F. I have read the "guidelines" but to get a Green Pass, the city states that you must meet or exceed O. Reg 562."
no way man
Hands down, no contest, miles ahead of all others...
Allen's on the Danforth
re: katiemo
Okay, I guess, if you can get past the snooty service and the meagre, mediocre (at best) toppings. Just because it's one of the few places in the city that grinds their own meat and allows you order the burger to your preferred doneness doesn't, sadly, make it the best place in the city for a burger. My backyard grill still rules the roost. For now.
re: katiemo
I had the BEST BURGER EVER at Lolita's Lust a few weeks ago. Better than Globe (my previous fave) and miles ahead of Allen's (which I wouldn't have voted for anyway). I have yet to go to GBK or Burger's Priest, but I will, soon. Maybe right now. The burger came with cheddar and bacon and was just the right kind of greasy a 7 month pregnant woman wants, but not too greasy to cause heartburn. It was cooked to order - medium rare, with a nice grind to the beef. Yum! If I weren't at work downtown right now I'd go get one!
Lolita's Lust
513 Danforth Ave, Toronto, ON M4K1P5, CA
re: thenurse
Hooters Western BBQ Burger. I planned on just having wings, but after reading the posts on this board for the last couple days, I've been looking forward to a good burger. And a good burger was had! Juicy burger. Good size bun. Was contemplating getting a second one, if not for eating nachos, wings and fried pickles. Will be going back soon!
I grudgingly admit that Burger's Priest is the best burger in the city, but for the B.S. you have to put up with there, I would much rather Great Burger Kitchen, which I think is solidly in the number 2 slot. It also doesn't seem nearly as unhealthy, yet it's still a big, juicy, flavorful patty, excellent fresh toppings, and way more choice for less money. Plus the new location in St. Lawrence Market has lots of great seating with big screen TVs and it's licensed. Add to that a very friendly and attentive staff, and you've got near perfection!
St. Lawrence Market
92 Front St E, Toronto, ON M5E, CA
Great Burger Kitchen
1056 Gerrard St E, Toronto, ON M4M 1Z8, CA
re: jmeggs
re: shekamoo
re: jmeggs
re: jmeggs
re: jmeggs
re: jamesm
re: jmeggs
I've been there twice in two weeks. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I wasn't overly impressed the first time, so I wanted to go again to see if I missed something. I experienced no "BS" whatsoever, the staff was helpful, patient and friendly - but I don't think it's the best burger in TO. It's *good*, and the ingredients are incredibly fresh, and the buns are great - but for my money, I still prefer Allan's and Craft Burger.. actually, add Nota Bene and Beaconsfield to that list too... but it's very convenient and I haven't experienced a lineup... so I will be going back. I like how there's always parking - not the case with Craft Burger.
1154 Queen St W, Toronto, ON M6J1J5, CA
Nota Bene
180 Queen Street West, Toronto, ON M5V 2A1, CA
Big Smoke Burger
573 King St W, Toronto, ON M5V1M1, CA
re: justpete
I enjoyed burger priest but compared to in & out prices, it is rather expensive. The burgers are slightly bigger than In & Out's but the prices are more than double. I'll be back, but not exactly rushing.
Perhaps they're comparing themselves to Shake Shack as their prices line up with that. Then again they're not paying NYC rent.
Stockyards offer a decent alternative at a cheaper price, they also do griddle burgers and grind in house. Allens I can get a med rare burger w/ a fine pint. Maybe even Golden Star?
re: aser
Compared to a combo at Harveys across the street, BP isn't much more expensive for a tastier burger. I get the feeling there's more than just meat in a Harveys burger. BP might be emulating Shake Shack and In n Out, the dude is from Cali afterall, but if they don't have the custard flavors of the month like Shake Shack. That'd be a nice addition, but prob. more trouble than its worth.
re: GoodGravy
Hmm, I would disagree w/ that, a double double (burger only) at BP is $7.99. You can get out of Harveys w/ a burger combo (fries/drink) for under that I'm sure. Again, I haven't eaten in Harveys in over 10 yrs so I could be wrong.
Double double combo at BP is $14.19 I think, maybe more?
A double double at in & out is $3.35, a shack burger (same thing) is $7.25.
re: aser
But how can a single operation in Toronto using high quality ingredients and producing what many think to be the best burger in town compete in prices with Harveys(which serves truly disgusting junk food) or even a more quality US chain like In&Out, or even a rather small but probably well established NY based franchise?
Is this seriously meant as a criticism of BP's price point? Maybe I am mistaken and you are just comparing the prices without saying anything about BP
re: shekamoo
Shake Shack started out as a single operation too, granted owned by a famous restaurateur.
I like BP's burgers, but is it illegal for me to say they're "overpriced"? It's simply my opinion. I used comparable products in the marketplace to explain my stance. Harveys was brought into the picture by another poster. The product is nowhere near its quality, that's a given. Prices were pointed to repute the claim BP is only slightly more expensive than them, which isn't true.
At the price point BP is charging, I would rather have a medium rare burger at Allen's where I can sit down comfortably and enjoy a pint. Also, I brought up Stockyards above, very similar business model to BP. Their prices are cheaper, bigger portions, similar quality.....
No need to get your knickers all knackered, BP makes a good product. I find it a bit overpriced factoring its location and setting (ie. lack of seating), that's all.
re: aser
haha, I dont know about knickers and knackers and illegality and all, I was trying to make a point in a respectable fashion to the effect that your comparison with US prices is not a fair comparison to comparable products in the market to base a claim about BP being overpriced. although it is well within reason just to maintain that BP is overpriced given its location and setting, it is not reasonable based on a comparison with US places.
Now, the comparison with Allen's and particularly Stockyards is surely fair. I would reply that BP's burger is better than Stockyards (although I am a huge stockyards fan), and that the service at Allen's makes the burgers absolutely worthless to me. but that is my private opinion.
re: shekamoo
Maybe it's slightly unfair to compare their prices to US operations. However, I feel they open themselves up to it because they're "COPYING" note for note another company's product line. Simply put, they're biting, and I'm sure he'll be the first to admit to that.
Based on burger alone, I would rank BP as equal to In & Out, with Shake Shack improving upon In & Out's formula.
Again, I'll revisit BP, just not as often as I would hit Allen's, Stockyards or Golden Star. Probably avoid BP in the winter as I don't have the option to go outside to eat if all 5 stools are taken.
For some reason, i've never encountered any service problems at Allen's, on numerous visits. Perhaps I've been lucky, who knows.
re: aser
You're not the only one. While I liked BP, I found it expensive (considering what you get) and it's not within walking distance, so it's automatically out of the picture unless I'm in the area. It's probably the best fast food burger I've had in Toronto, but Craft is cheaper and almost as good when they cook the burgers properly, plus I don't have to travel. And Craft has better fries.
I agree, considering the price anyway, that Allen's burger is much better. I'm actually kind of surprised that the people who usually rag on the price of burgers don't complain about the prices at BP. $15 for a fast food burger? But you're willing to pay because they use "good" ingredients? But a burger made with much better ingredients (which you are not willing to pay for) is a rip off? What?
Sometimes I just don't understand CH.
re: aser
Shake Shack and In & Out don't operate in Canada so a price comparison isn't as useful since neither competes w/ BP. Harvey's is across the street so it's a direct competitor. Stockyards, Craft, Allen's are far enough away as not to pull customers away from BP or Harvey's. A Harvey's and BP combo comparison with like for like offerings would be the most useful if you were selecting solely on price, but clearly, CHers order taste, cost, decor, and convenience differently, hence the different opinions. A BP double double might be $8, but a Harvey's double cheese is around $6. While it's a significant (25%) difference, in real terms, the $2 diff might be worth it to people for the difference in taste and quality.
re: GoodGravy
re: jmeggs
re: szw
I think my problem is every time I'm there it's super busy. The guys behind the counter tend to get a little flustered when it's busy and will tell people it will be ten/fifteen minutes (I've seen this twice now) for orders, almost as if they want to dissuade you from ordering. I personally don't mind the wait, I think it's worth it, though their space is so small and seating so limited that you're forced to wait outside.
It would be great if they could move (or open a second location) that's a little bigger and a little closer to the core. My impression, from how busy they are and how much they charge, is they are probably doing very well, so maybe this will come to pass! :)
re: jmeggs
Have to disagree re BQM. On a friend's recommendation for the burgers and onion rings, I went one night and ordered a burger + rings combo. With a coke, it came out to something ridiculous like $18. WTF. I got it to go, as I live a few minutes away.
The worst part is that the burger was meh. It was beefy, but really not worth the cash. AND they gave us fries (too oily, all stuck together) instead of the onion rings. I will not be going back.
Believe it or not, I really love the burgers at Milestones, especially one called the American burger which has smoked bacon and cheddar.
Fantastic moist, beefy taste and slightly pink.
I've tried most of what was mentioned on this board, but aside from Golden Star's, Milestones is my go to.
I just found out that Five Guys Burgers is now operating around the GTA. One in Mississauga and the other in Vaughan. Anyone tried their burgers (not the US locations, but the ones here) ? How does it compare to an Allen's or actually BP's? Burger's Priest, to me, is the best burger in T.O.
2150 Burnhamthorpe Road West
Mississauga , ON L5M 4Z5
7600 Weston Road
Vaughan, ON L4L 3B1
re: scarberian
Some Woodbridge location reviews near the end of this thread:
And Mississauga discussion here:
Recent visit to Allen's resulted in $75 for 2 burgers, single order of half sweet / half regular fries, and 4 beers. Yikes !
I like the atmosphere and the burger was good (however no "crust" on the meat this time), but the service was abysmal (waiter was distracted by personal issues and kept disappearing for extended periods), fries were horrid (I don't think mushy when I think of fries), and to charge me 25 cents for a leaf of romaine or a slice of tomato seems very petty.
My only burger and beer destination has just slipped off the list.
Have to put a vote in for Big Boy Burgers! They have two locations - one in Pickering and one in Scarborough! Outstanding burgers including a bun that does not look like it came out of a Dempsters bag and out of this world fresh cut fries. Their menu looked great and I only wished I could have tried a few things on it! Next time maybe! The prices were extremely reasonable too!
re: Hooter1
re: Davwud
I live 0.5 km from Big Boy in Pickering, and I have not ventured in because a review I respect said they pre-cook their burgers. I have even heard this about GBK, Jones and Gerrard, but that is not close to me. If someone here says Big Boy burgers are cooked to order, juicy, full beef flavor, and maybe even pink in the middle, I will walk across 401 and the tracks to try them.
re: jayt90
Perhaps you both should read a few more reviews, or actually try the place yourself! I recently tried both Johnny's and the Real McCoy. Big Boy beats Johnny's hands down. The Real McCoy and Big Boy are close, but Big Boy's wins on the fries! The buns are definitely not Dempsters!
re: jayt90
Think of a bigger Harvey's burger and you've got Big Boy. Full of filler and gets the overcooked bready crust on the outside to boot. I ate there once, their fries were terrible as well. They tasted like they'd been par-cooked then sat for a few days before final frying.
I will admit they look impressive, the proof is in the taste/texture.
Hooter1, have you seen them prepare a burger there? Mine was pulled par-cooked from a stainless steel tray and finished on the grill. To make matters worse, the cook then broke the patty in half to make sure it was cooked through. Maybe I should have complimented them on giving me two burger patties for the price of one!
Try, Starr Burger, Shamrock, Shake Rabble and Roll, all in the Durham region. They are all superior. Next up I feel you'll tell me Pete's Big Bite is the second best burger joint in Durham.
re: Dr Butcher
re: Dr Butcher
I agree with you doc about Big Boy. I tried them twice (both locations) and I found their burgers dry. I ordered the ones made in house (not frozen) and they came out dry with not much flavour. It was also a bit pricey considering the end product. As for their fries, it was nothing to write home about. Both meals were quite disappointing and I was hoping Big Boy would come through. I still have to try Real McCoy from all the positive reviews it keeps getting.
Best Burger = Harbord Room
I wasn't thrilled with my first visit to the Harbord Room, so I didn't go back. Some friends have been going on about their burger. They felt it was better than Gabardine or Marben. I believe someone else mentioned it on this post how good it is. So I finally tried it and agree it is the best I have had in this city. My favourite is still the burger at DBGB in NYC, but this was very similar to that burger. What made HR and DBGB's great is a soft brioche bun and a flavourful and juicy patty. They are both simple straight forward burgers with no fancy toppings, but what makes them work is they're rich, juicy, and have a texture that melts in your mouth. My only criticism is they are both a touch salty. I will definitely be back for another.
488 Wellington Street West, Toronto, ON M5V 1E5, CA
Harbord Room
89 Harbord St, Toronto, ON M5S1G4, CA


text:
Hi There!
Recently I purchased the final assault map pack (I am not elite pro) and have since then not found out how to play it! All I get is some message saying that not all map packs downloaded, playing with original maps!!!
Surely I don't have to effectively get an elite membership (or just get all the maps) a year after the game came out just to play the maps online???
Yeah, there's an issue with Map Packs and it seems only Elite Premium members are not affected.
Retrieving data ...

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Dairy producers are more informed than ever
Dairy producers are more informed than ever
finding even greater returns with MAX® – Cargill's proprietary nutrient management software application.
Volatile feed costs are nothing new and dairy producers know this all too well. The drought of 2012, followed by the constantly shifting weather patterns of 2013, has played a role in this dynamic shift in prices. Yet despite these problems, innovative dairy producers have discovered success in avoiding feed cost uncertainty with Cargill's MAX® system – an innovative software application designed to help meet the nutritional needs of dairy operations.
"The MAX system is the industry's most accurate and consistent resource for nutrient information and analysis," said Mike Jerred, Dairy Technology Lead, Cargill Animal Nutrition. "We offer business partners access to our global network of information, which is updated on a daily basis."
Cargill works with on-farm management to customize solutions that are specific for each operation. Nutrition, ingredient expertise and management recommendations are all part of what the MAX system offers to dairy producers.
Accuracy is key
The MAX system leverages Near Infrared (NIR) technology to better serve Cargill customers. NIR has been at the forefront of increasing efficiency with testing ingredient samples. It allows for results in 60 seconds, compared to three days with older lab testing methods. That makes for faster on-farm decisions and less wasted time.
"Cargill has state-of-the-art labs," said Dave Cook, Global Research and Development Director, Cargill Animal Nutrition. "We provide the accurate analysis our customers need to ensure they are delivering as consistent a result to their cattle as possible."
Cargill has been able to create the industry's most accurate models for almost every aspect of a ruminant animal's life. Taking that information from Cargill's global network of resources allows for the most connected understanding of the industry, including 10,000 scans globally per day.
"We've invested over $10 million into MAX system enhancements since 2008," said Cook.
"And the next generation of technological advances are already being programmed into MAX."
Formulating diets for a dairy producer and making a recommendation for them means understanding the unique aspects of each dairy producer's operation. A strong understanding of the ingredients available on-farm is the foundation for creating a smart nutrition program.
The ability to compare nutrient sources offers dairy producers the power to make informed purchasing decisions from nutrient suppliers, saving them time and money.
Greater returns
The MAX system has improved feed consistency and efficiency of dairy operations worldwide. Better nutrition amounts to better herd performance, and spending 5 cents more per day on a cow can equate to 15 cents per day in return. It delivers powerful ROI that cannot be found with other systems.
To learn more about the MAX system, contact a local Cargill representative or visit Cargill online.


text:
By John Vogl
Larry Playfair has known Lindy Ruff since 1979. They were teammates in Buffalo for seven seasons, and they've worked together through the years as key members of the Sabres' alumni association.
After the Sabres lost to Winnipeg on Tuesday night in a boo-filled, uninspired performance, Playfair sensed his time with Ruff in the organization was nearing its end.
"I watched Lindy's press conference after the game, and it's as down as I've seen him in a long, long time," Playfair told The Buffalo News tonight. "I don't typically do it, but this morning I watched it again on Sabres.com. You can just see he's tried everything he can try and the guys aren't responding. If he's out of answers, I look at it as maybe my friend Lindy Ruff gets a break now.
"I know he came here in hopes of winning a Stanley Cup. I think he put a lot, lot more pressure on himself than anybody else did. I'm thinking maybe this might be just a chance for him to catch his breath, you know?"
Here is the video of Ruff's news conference following the 2-1 loss to Winnipeg. They will go down as his final postgame remarks as coach of the Buffalo Sabres.
taggedLarry Playfair | Lindy Ruff


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Slideshow posted in Photos | Thursday, December 08, 2011
1 of 5:
Dianna Agron, who plays Quinn Fabray on 'Glee,' appears at Nylon magazine's dinner party to celebrate its December/January issue. She appears on the cover, depicted on a cake that was presented at the event on Dec. 7, 2011 at the Writer's Room in Los Angeles.
( Photo / Michael Buckner / WireImage)


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Hugs for veterans; slugs for money-wasters
Column | Dec 6, 2012 | 3:44 PM
Hugs for veterans; slugs for money-wasters
Column | Dec 6, 2012 | 3:44 PM
Un debate: Diversity, Advertising and Creativity
Story | Feb 16, 2012 | 4:34 PM
How do young professionals embrace the value of their diverse background and how can they turn that into meaningful objectives in their lives? Now, more than ever, companies are looking to hire fresh perspectives of young, diverse, individuals to help...
Orange County Library wins Library of the Future award
Story | Mar 29, 2011 | 4:32 PM
Orange County Library snags the Library of the Future Award from the American Library Association. The annual award goes to a library that "demonstrates innovative planning and development of patron training programs about information technology....
Recipe extra: Tracy Zampaglione's Italian Love Nests
Story | Nov 30, 2011 | 4:41 PM
Tracy Zampaglione, public-relations administrator for the Orange County Library System, was one of four national finalists in a recent Cook's Country magazine recipe contest for old-fashioned family favorites. Her Italian Love Nests was one of 120...


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Cellar/Tasting Notes "The Cuvee Prestige, the 2006 Haut-Condissas (60% Cabernet Sauvignon and 40% Merlot from the vineyard's finest parcels), possesses a more saturated color as well as additional structure, body, and intense fruit. The finish is heady and long. This offering should drink nicely for 12-15 years...
Cellar/Tasting Notes "This is one of the finest wines I have tasted from this highly regarded terroir that has rarely been exploited to its maximum potential. Loads of chalk dust intertwined with sweet kirsch, black currants, licorice and camphor jump from the glass of this full-bodied wine, which has terrific fruit..
Cellar/Tasting Notes "Soft and generous fruit, its tannins enveloped by a warm and ripe juicy fruit layer. The wine is already delicious, showing sweet tannins and a subtle touch of wood."
Cellar/Tasting Notes An enormously appealing style of wine with a dark plum/purple color to the rim, its sweet kiss of subtle oak intermixed with Asian spice, plum sauce, black cherries and black currants pushes some of the oak to the background. Plump, opulent, low in acidity and very sexy, this wine can be drunk over..
Cellar/Tasting Notes "Blueberry, licorice and sandalwood, with a solid core of fruit. Velvet and mineral. Lots going on. An impressive wine from tiny yields. 75 percent Merlot and 25 percent Cabernet Franc."
Cellar/Tasting Notes "Intense aromas of blackberry and smoke. Full-bodied, with velvety tannins and long finish. Solid and tight. As it should be."
Cellar/Tasting Notes "A wine that succeeds in combining great depth of flavor and structure with an impressive array of flavors. On top of the tannins is juicy black fruit, cocoa, a welter of spice and ripeness. The acidity and new wood put the wine into a more modern style."
Cellar/Tasting Notes Great nose of blueberries, spices and hints of walnuts. Full body, with a lovely finish of well-integrated tannins and a long, long finish. This is structured yet all in finesse. Best in years.
Cellar/Tasting Notes This is another astonishing effort from this small estate. The 2007 is one of the sexiest, most opulent yet powerfully concentrated wines of the vintage. There is not a hard edge to be found in this voluptuously textured, deep St.-Emilion. Abundant aromas and flavors of chocolate, charcoal,..
Cellar/Tasting Notes "A blend of 91% Merlot and 9% Cabernet Franc, this wine, which is made under the administration of Hubert de Bouard, tips the scales at 14.5% alcohol. Loads of chalky minerality from limestone soils are obviously present in this wine, which has a dense purple color, a viscous, full-bodied..


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How many plots of 80,000 acres of forests are left in North Carolina? Surely the answer is not many, and it might be just one.
That is Hofmann Forest, purchased by and named after the late Julius Hofmann, N.C. States universitys first dean of forestry. It was to be and has been a resource for research in one of the countrys best colleges of Natural Resources. It should always be so.
Unfortunately, however, some university officials are rationalizing the intention to sell Hofmann through the Endowment Fund of N.C. State as a way to make some money and support the college for the future. That is a shortsighted and wrong-headed idea, and it speaks of high-ranking university officials spending too much time talking to one another and discussing ways to do the deal and virtually ignoring some faculty members and conservationists who have demonstrated passionate opposition to the sale.
Indeed, some 1,000 people have signed an online petition, a sizable number considering the issue has been fairly low on the radar.
There are in fact some problems with the way the deals being done. This is public property (the university might split hairs over ownership by a foundation versus the university, but that doesnt matter), but the buyer who has made the offer has not been identified. The attitude of officials seems to be, who cares as long as we get the money? The propertys estimated value is about $120 million.
Why is identity an issue? Because the business interests of a buyer might offer a clue as to what that buyer might do with the property, even though NCSU officials say theyll arrange for students and faculty to still have access to the land for research. Thats likely to be a temporary arrangement, however, should the buyer find a way to make a big profit on timber rights or development. It would be naive of the university to think that it can sell Hofmann to a private interest and that nothing will change.
Second, this property already generates about $2 million a year in income from pine tree harvests. Thats a pretty good return on an asset that also provides research opportunities for students.
And, if timber prices and real estate prices are somewhat low right now, why move ahead? University officials can call in consultants to guide them on deals such as this, but officials in academia are typically not experts on real estate transactions.
It is somewhat annoying when N.C. State officials hold the details of this deal in secret and convey an attitude that seems to say, Its our business and nobody elses, and well do the right thing. Those officials, be they deans or a chancellor, work first for the people of North Carolina, who have a right to details, period. Period. It is insulting to them to operate behind closed doors, and this way of doing business will not give the universitys leaders credibility when the deal is done.
But it should not be done. Some, in fact more than some, in the university community have raised valid objections to this sale, and they deserve to be heard and respected. Once leaders start a ball rolling on something like this, theyre reluctant to back down in acknowledgment that perhaps their initial decision was misguided. But, in fact, admitting that perhaps a first decision was wrong reflects strength, not weakness, in a leader.
And NCSU Chancellor Randy Woodson could demonstrate, in halting this process, that he has listened to credible faculty members and others and in the course of this can hold on to a valuable asset. It could, after all, be sold at some later point. But once its gone, it is lost.


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Maryland Robotics Center news archives: Nikhil Chopra
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UAE students, Northrop Grumman engineers tour robotics laboratories
Visitors were in town for the annual AUVSI conference.
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Nikhil Chopra named to editorial board of leading systems and control journal
Chopra will be an associate editor of IEEE Transactions on Automatic Control.
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Chopra is principal investigator for NSF nonlinear system tracking control grant
The research will enhance the tracking performance of robotic systems under sensor constraints.
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Miniature Robotics REU students give final presentations
Ten undergrads from around the country give talks on their summer projects.
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Maryland Robotics Center featured on live TV broadcast
Robots from five research groups help promote Maryland Day activities.
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Visit of Dr. Nader Vahdati to UMD
Assoc Chair of the Mechanical Engineering Dept at the Petroleum Institute, visited UMD.
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Nikhil Chopra receives NSF grant for wireless sensor and robotic networks
Researcher will investigate fundamental issues in control and distributed coordination.
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Department Welcomes New Faculty this Fall and Spring
Dr. Byeng Youn and Dr. Nikhil Chopra join the department as Assistant Professors.
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