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Gene Marks, Contributor
I cover technologies helping companies be quicker, better, wiser.
President Obama gave an excellent speech last week in Kansas about inequality in America.
"This is the defining issue of our time." He said. "This is a make-or-break moment for the middle class, and for all those who are fighting to get into the middle class. Because what's at stake is whether this will be a country where working people can earn enough to raise a family, build a modest savings, own a home, secure their retirement."
He's right. The spread between rich and poor has gotten wider over the decades. And the opportunities for the 99% have become harder to realize.
The President's speech got me thinking. My kids are no smarter than similar kids their age from the inner city. My kids have it much easier than their counterparts from West Philadelphia. The world is not fair to those kids mainly because they had the misfortune of being born two miles away into a more difficult part of the world and with a skin color that makes realizing the opportunities that the President spoke about that much harder. This is a fact. In 2011.
I am not a poor black kid. I am a middle aged white guy who comes from a middle class white background. So life was easier for me. But that doesn't mean that the prospects are impossible for those kids from the inner city. It doesn't mean that there are no opportunities for them. Or that the 1% control the world and the rest of us have to fight over the scraps left behind. I don't believe that. I believe that everyone in this country has a chance to succeed. Still. In 2011. Even a poor black kid in West Philadelphia.
It takes brains. It takes hard work. It takes a little luck. And a little help from others. It takes the ability and the know-how to use the resources that are available. Like technology. As a person who sells and has worked with technology all my life I also know this.
If I was a poor black kid I would first and most importantly work to make sure I got the best grades possible. I would make it my #1 priority to be able to read sufficiently. I wouldn't care if I was a student at the worst public middle school in the worst inner city. Even the worst have their best. And the very best students, even at the worst schools, have more opportunities. Getting good grades is the key to having more options. With good grades you can choose different, better paths. If you do poorly in school, particularly in a lousy school, you're severely limiting the limited opportunities you have.
And I would use the technology available to me as a student. I know a few school teachers and they tell me that many inner city parents usually have or can afford cheap computers and internet service nowadays. That because (and sadly) it's oftentimes a necessary thing to keep their kids safe at home than on the streets. And libraries and schools have computers available too. Computers can be purchased cheaply at outlets like TigerDirect and Dell's Outlet. Professional organizations like accountants and architects often offer used computers from their members, sometimes at no cost at all.
If I was a poor black kid I'd use the free technology available to help me study. I'd become expert at Google Scholar. I'd visit study sites like SparkNotes and CliffsNotes to help me understand books. I'd watch relevant teachings on Academic Earth, TED and the Khan Academy. (I say relevant because some of these lectures may not be related to my work or too advanced for my age. But there are plenty of videos on these sites that are suitable to my studies and would help me stand out.) I would also, when possible, get my books for free at Project Gutenberg and learn how to do research at the CIA World Factbook and Wikipedia to help me with my studies.
I would use homework tools like Backpack, and Diigo to help me store and share my work with other classmates. I would use Skype to study with other students who also want to do well in my school. I would take advantage of study websites like Evernote, Study Rails, Flashcard Machine, Quizlet, and free online calculators.
Is this easy? No it's not. It's hard. It takes a special kind of kid to succeed. And to succeed even with these tools is much harder for a black kid from West Philadelphia than a white kid from the suburbs. But it's not impossible. The tools are there. The technology is there. And the opportunities there.
In Philadelphia, there are nationally recognized magnet schools like Central, Girls High and Masterman. These schools are free. But they are hard to get in to. You need good grades and good test scores. And there are also other good magnet and charter schools in the city. You also need good grades to get into those. In a school system that is so broken these are bright spots. Getting into one of these schools opens up a world of opportunities. More than 90% of the kids that go to Central go on to college. I would use the internet to research each one of these schools so I could find out how I could be admitted. I would find out the names of the admissions people and go to meet with them. If I was a poor black kid I would make it my goal to get into one of these schools.
Or even a private school. Most private schools I know are filled to the brim with the 1%. That's because these schools are exclusive and expensive, costing anywhere between $20 and $50k per year. But there's a secret about them. Most have scholarship programs. Most have boards of trustees that want to give opportunities to kids that can't afford the tuition. Many would provide funding for not only tuition but also for transportation or even boarding. Trust me, they want to show diversity. They want to show smiling, smart kids of many different colors and races on their fundraising brochures. If I was a poor black kid I'd be using technology to research these schools on the internet, too, and making them know that I exist and that I get good grades and want to go to their school.
And once admitted to one of these schools the first person I'd introduce myself to would be the school's guidance counselor. This is the person who will one day help me go to a college. This is the person who knows everything there is to know about financial aid, grants, minority programs and the like. This is the person who may also know of job programs and co-op learning opportunities that I could participate in. This is the person who could help me get summer employment at a law firm or a business owned by the 1% where I could meet people and show off my stuff.
If I was a poor black kid I would get technical. I would learn software. I would learn how to write code. I would seek out courses in my high school that teaches these skills or figure out where to learn more online. I would study on my own. I would make sure my writing and communication skills stay polished.
Because a poor black kid who gets good grades, has a part time job and becomes proficient with a technical skill will go to college. There is financial aid available. There are programs available. And no matter what he or she majors in that person will have opportunities. They will find jobs in a country of business owners like me who are starved for smart, skilled people. They will succeed.
President Obama was right in his speech last week. The division between rich and poor is a national problem. But the biggest challenge we face isn't inequality. It's ignorance. So many kids from West Philadelphia don't even know these opportunities exist for them. Many come from single-parent families whose mom or dad (or in many cases their grand mom) is working two jobs to survive and are just (understandably) too plain tired to do anything else in the few short hours they're home. Many have teachers who are overburdened and too stressed to find the time to help every kid that needs it. Many of these kids don't have the brains to figure this out themselves – like my kids. Except that my kids are just lucky enough to have parents and a well-funded school system around to push them in the right direction.
Technology can help these kids. But only if the kids want to be helped. Yes, there is much inequality. But the opportunity is still there in this country for those that are smart enough to go for it.
Editor's note — This post has generated an enormous amount of feedback here on Forbes and across the web. Here are a few of those responses:
Kashmir Hill, Forbes: Trolling The Internet With 'If I Were A Poor Black Kid'
Ta-Nehisi Coates, The Atlantic: A Muscular Empathy
Kelly Virella, Dominion of New York: If I Were The Middle Class White Guy Gene Marks
Cord Jefferson, GOOD: An Ode To A 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
Unbelievable. Mr. Marks' comments demonstrate a writer who is out of touch with his own society. The ability to rattle off a list of educational apps doesn't qualify anyone for social commentary. I find it offensive that a "finger snap" solution, proposed by an "expert" can suddenly eliminate the hurdles of poverty, hunger, crime and prejudice. Private school? Really?
I suggest Mr Marks build himself a moon rocket. All the tools and technology are there. There are examples of how it's been done successfully in the past. All he needs to do is introduce himself to an astronaut or two, and maybe an overworked engineer at Boeing. There are lunar landing simulators all over the Internet. He just needs a little more pluck.
Bon voyage, Mr Marks. Write when you find work…
Slow clap, teapotdome! You took the words right out of my mouth! I'm still trying to understand what the purpose of this article is, other than to boost the ego of a self-professed "short, balding, mediocre" man. I'd like to give Mr. Marks the benefit of the doubt and assume that he somehow believed this exercise in condescension was him trying to behelpful, but if he sincerely wants to help,he should try something that doesn't insult the audience he's trying to reach or ignore the reality of their circumstances.
Wow!!! Teapotdome, dcditrictdiva and adcomments!!! The Epitome of the Perpetuation of Ignorance!!! Firstly, Mr. Marks is providing the recipe for the main dish and where to acquire the ingredients… He cannot profess to be the master chef, because IT does take more then accessibility!!! (All recipes need a little Love, Care and Time)— But, at least he offered a viable means by which an ascension can come out of a stagnation!!!
I think Mr. Marks doesn't realize he's won half the battle being a "short, blading, mediocre" white male. Doesn't he realize those facts alone makes the world his oyster?
I wonder when was the last time he even talked to a poor black kid, but he has all the answers.
Well said! I was thinking the same thing.
HAHAHAH!!! I love your response. The fact that Mr. Marks including "help" and "a little luck" in his response makes it clear he'll be looking for a ton of mini-Horatio Algers running around in West Philadelphia. The Fresh Prince of Bel Air episodes can teach us more about "opportunity" than this blog post (and that show was out of touch with class, too but at least they knew that much of it was a joke)!
"Exercise in condescension"– perfect phrase for this piece!!
darianlewis, you blind ignorance of grasping this article as a whole astounds me. Granted yes, the short, balding, mediocre ex accountant that is Gene Marks did have good intent in what he was trying to say, but that doesn't make what his solutions right. I'm a mid-20s, middle class black man who was a poor black kid whose parents worked to get us to being a middle class family.
The bare bones of it is that Mr. Marks is right, being successful is extremely difficult, now more than ever. And yes he was right by the president's speech was to put fire under the bellies of a rural town to help start a movement of change and progression (kind of the goal of what he wanted to accomplish in his original campaign) But has a biased opinion of what "cheap" "poor" and "porverty" really are. On top of that WAY out of touch of how hard it is to be a student in modern society.
Do you REALLY think is a poverish kid had 200-300 (the cheapest computer you can buy) to buy a computer, he would actually do it instead of you know, helping his family with food, rent, clothes, etc.? Do you really think the most capable student from the "hood" would actually get into, let alone be accepted in a magnet school/private school (lets bring up costs of private school again if he or she doesnt get a scholarship), let alone outside of it in his west philly upbringing? Lastly, do you really believe that society is perfect and that the skilled and bright no matter what get what they deserve?
If you believe in all of that, I am extremely jealous and slightly worried of the blistful ignorance and I also think that you watch too many movies. There is an EXTREME amount of luck that plays into making it out of your surroundings that has to be supplemented by talent, not knowledge. It HELPS to be knowledgable, it PAYS to be talented and it takes LUCK to be successful.
Sir, as a white kid who grew up on welfare in a single-parent home and went on to graduate from Stanford, you might think that I would support you. Instead, I am so incredibly dissappointed in your ignorant "recipe" for success. I got into a magnet school that my mom found out about by sheer accident. I went to the library and read a lot because it was the only place with adequate heat and electricity. The problem? I got evicted more times than I can count. Our utilities got shut off so often. I did not, contrary to your "teacher friends'" assessment, have a computer at home. Had I known about any of these tools (likelihood is that I would not have and that my mother would have been even less likely to as a waitress working 15 hours a day 6 days a week), I still wouldn't have been able to use them. What library system could accommodate all the poor kids (of any race) to help them to realize this goal? Where would I find the time to use these resources when I started to work at age 15? Where would I get my stamina to study "coding" when we didn't have enough food to eat dinner that day? It is articles like these that perpetuate the systemic ignorance of the role class and race play on success and prevent us from real solutions. You clearly do not understand what it is like to be poor, and your blindness is a danger because this article will only reach those who are well enough to-do to have an impact on policies that directly affect your mythical "poor black kid." And those policy makers will make terrible choices that entrench systemic racism and class division even further in our country. Shame on you.
Like you, I was a poor, white kid from a single-parent welfare mom. I attended inner-city public schools before being lucky enough to be accepted to a private prep high school on a scholarship. I agree with everything you've said, but I wanted to add one other point that I think is important.
During my time in public school, there was a definite anti-learning culture. I and all the other A students were teased and picked on mercilessly. In middle school, I had to sneak out through a hole in the fence to avoid being beaten up on my way home. Had it not been for my mother being very involved in my education and not accepting any sort of failure, I might not have resisted the pressure to act out, skip school and generally actively try to not learn anything.
As much as the article is ignorant about the true extents of poverty, as you've pointed out, it's also ignorant of the culture that stops kids in that environment from focusing on their education. Without a parent actively encouraging their child to learn and taking responsibility for motivating their child to succeed, it's almost impossible for a child to overcome the day-to-day pressure from their peers.
Great comment ryanc86. I love it when people who don't know what it means to struggle for lack of the BASICS oversimplify the "solution."
We're going to get better as a country. I have to believe this.
He offered no viable means to anything. It is nothing more than his privileged attempt to pontificate to his peers (i.e., fellow Forbes magazine readers). I am surprised by how much credit you (or anyone for that matter) are giving this man. Look at his audience. He is certainly not addressing any of the "poor black kids" he claims to have so much knowledge and "concern" about. How about putting his money where his mouth is. Since he is in technology, he can go those two miles into West Philly and provide some of this so-called access. Either put up or shut up.
I'm sorry, that was in response to the wrong post. I agree with you totally ryanc86!
He offered no viable means to anything. It is nothing more than his privileged attempt to pontificate to his peers (i.e., fellow Forbes magazine readers). I am surprised by how much credit you (or anyone for that matter) are giving this man. Look at his audience. He is certainly not addressing any of the "poor black kids" he claims to have so much knowledge and "concern" about. How about putting his money where his mouth is? Since he is in technology, he can go those two miles into West Philly and provide some of this so-called access. Either put up or shut up.
This article is extremely idealistic, but not at all realistic. It would take an extreme amount of discipline to accomplish the tasks you propose as a youth. Unfortunately, the lack of discipline and structure is more common amongst inner city youth, typically due to an absentee father and a mother (or grandmother) who works around the clock. In these circumstances survival tends to be the main focus, not academic, technological, and career advancements.
…and my question is …why would not the disparaging comments also be called out? Does one have to be agreeing with this self-serving blog to get noticed?
Methinks that would prove that the blog was written to boost the ego of the writer, for certain… and not to help anyone anywhere… even though a few ignorant people may believe he might.
When you drop this commentary from the sky (you are going to do that right as you wish to tell everyone about your opportunity blog, Mr. Marks) make sure the turkeys you might attach them to are not frozen as that could do actual harm… when of course you had only good intentions.
(PS: for those who don't click links, live turkeys are still dangerous to drop from the sky… even when you have good intentions)
I completely agree, danorris07. I have been teaching in public schools and the greatest concern these kids have is acquiring the most basic commodities. They cannot learn (nor should they) without their most primal needs being met. I don't care how accessible free Internet at a public library is, kids will use their time trying to find work, food and shelter.
I completely agree with your paragraph 2. Thanks.
Thank you as well. All so true.
Mr. Marks, please read this article: http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/its-free-blog/2011/dec/13/opinion-if-i-were-rich-white-dude/
It might help you understand why so many people feel that your article is offensive and rooted in ignorance.
If that remains your stance, you dont bring any of the conversation forward. In fact, you only regurgitate which is known fact. If you're poor and black, you have to tenfold as lucky and talented than their privileged counterparts– these are things everyone has known already and parents are already doing what you stated (refer to the mother JAILED for "lying" about their children's address to get their child to attend a suburban school).
Your article makes several erroneous claims and fallacies that assume black students do not understand coursework, and it disregards the staggering reality that our children are forced to "figure it out themselves." How can a student, who is not even certain he will make it out of high school alive, going to make sound investments into his future? Also, what exists in these communities to sustain ambitions. These kids live in a reality of broken dreams. How are these students to remain optimistic as our those happy-go-lucky, didnt-know-not-going-to-college-was-an-option students from privileged suburban neighborhoods.
Fact is, many of these students live in ever-lasting reality that tells them they have no business. Thats why the students get more grim and less-energetic the older they get. At 5, they wanna be doctors and lawyers. At 17, they wanna be SEPTA drivers, car technicians, and rappers, and at 25, they wanna be anything that gives them money. Regardless of their circumstances, it takes an exceptionally talented person to go to these schools, come back home, and still feel confident and ambitious. It takes audacity to be mediocre is some environments. Your article proposes, in no way, how to mitigate living in a different world; you only put forth the disposition that students are charged to change their own lives and as you pointed out, it isnt fair. You simply end by saying it isnt fair, though…
Then we wonder why racism exists.
I made a forbes.com login JUST to reply to you. This is absurd. I do not even know where to begin. Surely you are reading the comments. You prove that white people genuinely do not know or do not believe that there are lots of brick wall obstacles between these "poor black kids" and your "suggestions." IF you were poor, (and despite what you purport, it is never ok to write poor.black.kid. how dare you) you would never, ever, ever, be able to write from this POV. You write as what and who you are, a white middle everything man who these duh! ideas make total sense to, and why don't these poor black kids get a clue…
You would not be able to do any of these things if you were potentially born with a host of maladies, malnourished, little sleep, poor healthcare, making a choice to leave the house to even get to school knowing that you may not make it back. No video game can adequately show the real life/death obstacles that face these children daily. They can be shot looking out the window. If any of these children make it to puberty, they may have had to choose between survival and illegal monetary gain, gangs, and other daily atrocities that you can never fathom. Good grades? How do you that when you can't even get to school, stay awake, learn with a clean, healthy body and mind, nourished with good food and developing normally? Are you really telling me you don't know, see, hear these stats?
One more news flash for you…most of this nations' poor are WHITE. Can you believe it? What should those kids do? Same recipe?
I know you will defend your thoughts. After all, white is right, correct? Surely, a man exposed to journalism everyday has the ideal white saviour recipe. I hope that somewhere, even if you never admit it outloud, you realize how woefully wrong your article is directed. I also hope that others of your ilk ead it and recognize their own prejudices and biases. This is why racism and bias will only get worse in our lifetime. I am embarassed and ashamed for you.
Grammar was clearly not your learned skill.
I think we can all respect that then. That requires a lot of courage to stand by your beliefs based on no knowledge of racial socialism, no knowledge of of the median scale base income of poverty, no knowledge of local society of you neighbors of West Philadelphia sides from what's provided to you on local television, and no personal experience what so ever. We don't have to tolerate it but we can respect your bigotry.
About 20 years ago I was a poor black kid. I think some of you are missing the real point of this article. It would not be easy for these kids to do the things he suggests, but they CAN do it. There are kids who ARE doing it right now. We live in a digital world now and kids are accepting digital solutions to these problems. Now if they can get these services on their cellphones that would reach an even larger audience.
"that the opportunity is there"
Ah yes, the old "level playing field" myth. Usually put forward by the cluelessly privileged.
Thank you for posting your comment ryanc86.
In order to put Mr. Mark's commentary into perspective, it's useful to understand the source, who is a self-described short, balding and mediocre white male accountant (see top right column).
Aside from the vapid commentary he provides for entertainment value for the more educated audience reading Forbes.com, Mr. Marks has also published a few Idiot's Guide type books and keeps a website cluttered with brackish ads targeting a less educated audience in desperate need of an adage or two with which to console themselves.
Mediocrity is often a product of a limited perspective, lack of initiative, and a sometimes a self-satisfaction that finds fascination with the navel. It is certainly interesting that Mr. Mark's was able to envision a life of ambition and prestige for a poor black kid — ambitions, education and prestige that he himself never achieved. His biographies make no mention of an undergraduate degree… not even high school honors, and definitely not an expensive or prestigious prep school. Indeed, his life could have been better had he grown up in a trailer park home with drug addicted parents. Perhaps then his mediocrity might have been mistaken for success. Perhaps then he might have an excuse for his lack of accomplishments.
Unfortunately, Mr. Marks there is no excuse for your obstinate ignorance. You chose it, and the emptiness of your words echo in the darkness around you.
Mr. Marks, You've failed to realize (or at minimum) admit the ignorant lacings of your article. As a writer for Forbes, you should be first to realize that the gap in prosperity in 2012 stems from 'economics' not 'race.'
There are white, Hispanic and Asian children – you name it – struggling in the same environments as the "poor black" kid you've portrayed. There are also black families on the other side of the spectrum who are affluent – some new to that environment, some have thrived in it for generations.
So instead of making this a race factor, how about being true to the heart of this issue? I suppose that its simple: you still need to fully utilize those free resources to brush on basic economics or that catchy title was just too good to pass on.
I won't even speak on your insensitivity to the exterior factors facing poor youth in America. You suggestions, while valid, are sadly well short of addressing the entire issue. Perhaps you should review pointers from the hundreds of infuriated respondents on this blog for hints.
Mr. Marks,
I was ALMOST, just almost with you until your response. I was what one might consider a "Poor Black Child". I studied hard, got the best grades, and constantly searched for the technology to advance myself.
As a result, I was regularly at the top of my class.
After an aptitude test ranked me in the 95th percentile in the country, I was called into the guidance counsellor's office to review my score. She then asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up.
I was raised in a household that had me believe that a C was a failing grade; I didn't know that an F was possible and was the invention of TV writers.
At age 13, I was reading at a university level and had been reading since the age of 2. I had already decided at the age of 6 that I wanted to be a lawyer and had spent the summer with my cousin auditing classes at his university. In my spare time, I studied Latin using a used Latin-English dictionary. I was ambition personified.
When I told her what my plans were, she responded with, "you have such lovely hair; have you thought about becoming a hairdresser?" She then proceeded to discourage my ambitions and told me how a trade may be more realistic.
Again, this was my guidance counsellor.
Mr. Marks, in the years up until my high school graduation I encountered more teachers, counsellors, and advisors that thought the way she did and my rank on the honour roll did nothing to sway their opinion.
The success that I achieved (and will continue to achieve) has been in spite of all the challenges I faced as "Poor Black Child". All of those challenges came from the teachers and advisors who thought that I would never be able to go beyond being a "Poor Black Child".
Writing has been my hobby since I was very young, and I thought I'd share some advice that was given to me by a mentor:
"write what you know".
So until you have experienced being a poor anything (Black, White, Asian…), please don't condescend to the ones who are living it. They have enough people feeding them BS.
Thank you.
ivyleaguegray "You prove that white people genuinely do not know or do not believe that…"
Actually it proves nothing of the sort. It does prove you are a racist.
One simple question: how can you possibly assume to know what it's like to be black in America?
And for the poor black kids who have guidance counselor's that don't believe in them? And for the poor black kids who don't have access to technology within their household (if they have a stable one at that)? And for the poor black kids whose local library are out of reach, are too dangerous to travel to, or doesn't have computers. And for the poor black kids who are fed the message, reinforced by systems of patriarchy and racism, that the only way out is through sports or music. And for the poor black kids who don't have knowledge of the college application process or how to seek that knowledge? And for the poor black kids that realize college is the best way to attain upward mobility late in high school while their affluent peers have been taking AP courses and getting tutoring from their parents?
I once was a poor black kid, and to some extent I agree with you Mr. Marks–we ALL have to take responsibility for our lives. But what your article so tragically fails to mention are the day-to-days struggles that poverty, racism, and patriarchy put forth. It sure makes it a lot harder to focus on ones bootstraps when you may not have a place to call home, or when you have a family to worry about.
If you were a poor black kid reading this, you'd find a lot missing.
This article is astounding in its ignorance, and ignorant audacity.
Please explain exactly and concretely who/how/when with contact information etc. provides unlimited:
internet access to poor black kids
internet savvy/training for poor black kids
specific school guidance to magnet and private schools for poor black kids
private school appropriate clothing and interview training for poor black kids
health/dental care so that magnet/private schools are not disturbed by appearance/health issues of poor black kids
white-middle-class elocution lessons for poor black kids
social/historical/cultural white middle-class capital for poor black kids
transportation to interviews for poor black kids
application funds for poor black kids
help with financial-aid on-line applications for poor black kids
music lessons and athletics lessons and gear to round out a private school application for poor black kids
and I could go on and on….
and finally
where can we find socio-economic reality education for ignorant white men????
Have you thought about how you can study really hard on an empty stomach. How you can study really hard when you live in a shelter with your family? Most kids do not have access to technology (that is a luxury). Guidance counselor? Have you stepped foot into an inner city school lately?, most schools due to budget cuts are lucky to to even have them, let alone spend enough time with them to develop a good skill.
Opportunity unfortunately is not there for everyone. That's called privilege.
Wow. Your condescending tone is simply astounding. But speaks to your complete ignorance of the social and structural barriers that a 'poor, black kid' faces. I'm sure that one of your esteemed colleagues has brought this column to your attention but just in case, here it is: 'If I were a rick white dude'. http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/its-free-blog/2011/dec/13/opinion-if-i-were-rich-white-dude/
Mr. Marks, you've written a post filled with good intentions. But we know where that road leads. I appreciate that you were up front about your own perspective. You should also be up front about the limitations of that perspective.
Families are struggling with *basic* living costs. Health care, food, rent, bus money. It's not just a matter of studying harder, of using technology, and learning a "good skill."
It is more than a mistake to stick by what you wrote. It is willful blindness to the reality of the racial and socioeconomic divide in this country.
Frankly, this piece is too naive to have run in Forbes.
Your tenacity of belief is commendable; it is a shame that the world doesn't agree with you.
Wow. Standing ovation.
This is the stupidest article ever! It should be titled, "If I were a poor black kid with a well-to-do white man's knowledge!" Is this a joke? I couldn't stomach to read to the end, does the writer say GOTCHA! at the end?
Another random thought that just occured to me just now….
1) If you can't afford a computer in the first place, how can you log onto TigerDirect and Dell Outlet's to buy one?
2) Even if you were able to access a computer to buy a computer to have it shipped to your home in a poverish area, how fast do you think it may/will get stolen before you got to it?
Mr. marks,
I can appreciate your article. As an in transition poor black kid, I see where you're coming from. I say in transition because I'm a senior at Georgetown and will soon be unable to classify myself using that title. My mother made less than 26,000 dollars a year in Southern California and had to support two children and the occasion fourth child also known as my father. I, like the person you describe in your article, went to a charter school, talked to my counselor, worked a part time job, and stayed at my school for ungodly hours to get to where I am today. I understand and agree with your line of thinking that this is what it takes to- well no longer be a 'poor black kid'. My essential problem (besides your choice of words) is your final paragraph
"Technology can help these kids. But only if the kids want to be helped. Yes, there is much inequality. But the opportunity is still there in this country for those that are smart enough to go for it."
This is a horrible way to sum up an already presumptuous and quite over simplified article. Implying that some black kids are not 'smart enough' to go after opportunity is a problem, but pretend for a moment that all poor black kids were indeed smart enough. Would there then be enough resources to support them all? Would they all be able to succeed? Of course not. I recognize that I am an enormous exception to the rule and that I was afforded an amazing opportunity that many of my peers, neighbors, and even my own brother did not have. I don't think this is because they were not smart enough, in fact I know it is not. It is completely useless to point out that there ARE people like me, that SOME people can rise above. The problem is that everyone (assuming their only issue was access to opportunity which it certainly is not) would not be supported by the system in which we operate everyone cannot attend a charter school, everyone cannot get a scholarship to a private school, everyone doesn't have a qualified guidance counselor, everyone can't even get a part time job. It doesn't matter that there are loopholes like the ones you point out because those loopholes cannot support everyone, these "opportunities" can not be taken advantage of by everyone and THAT is a problem worth talking about and in need of fixing. America has a real problem with imagining everyone can 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps' that concept is such a farce and more or less useless example. Excuse me for ranting, but if you were a poor black kid, you might be smart enough to understand that.
In the abstract opportunity does exist for all but my bigger question for you is did you write this for all the "poor black kids" who read Forbes or for the middle and upper middle class who actually read Forbes? Your sentiment isn't wrong but I encourage you to go listen to as many poor black kids (and poor kids of all colors) and ask them if they think they have opportunity or not. The important word here is listen to them. If you do that I will believe that you actually care about kids in that situation. If not, I just sounds like you are trying to rationalize inequality to make your and your reader feel better about themselves. So if you do care about then and you aren't trying to assuage your guilt then go listen to some poor black kids in West Philly please.
Mr. Marks, you are very confident in the content of your open letter, but I'd be interested to know what research you have done to arrive at the conclusion that there are educational and technological resources available for every poor child. Have you visited libraries nearest poor areas across the country to verify the technological resources you claim they provide? Have you done participant observation in inner city schools or assessed availability of resources (textbooks, computers) within the schools?
As someone who group up in a suburban area and has lived in inner city neighborhoods across the country throughout my adult life, I can confidently tell you are wrong in your assumptions about inner city resources. The cozy library in your neighborhood is not like the libraries in poor neighborhoods with their small, dated collections, limited (often standing station only) computers with long lines and brief time limits, and an often unenthusiastic staff that does not encourage the children. Let's not even get into the difference in resources between the urban and the rural poor– you seem to make the assumption that all these poor black children are in big city settings, a short subway ride away from everything, when a great deal of poor children live in rural locales or mid-sized cities in very isolated settings without access to anywhere without the help of an available and willing adult with a vehicle. I would suggest doing research on the communities in which you speak before formulating opinions. In general, it is always a good rule to do research, rather than make assumptions.
The worst sin of any you have committed here, though, is your ease with saying that a poor black kid needs to be "special" and *work much harder * than an average kid to make it, while an average white middle class child, for example, can sit on the laurels of his or her parents and easily absorb the cultural capital of his or her environment and 'make it'– not be "special", not "work hard". Is that okay to you? Are you comfortable with the way in which society works? You would be better serving the 'poor black kids' you claim to be helping by writing a letter to your peers, the rich white kids, to be aware of the privileges they have, and change the policies that create barriers for their counterparts, for the future of their country. If middle class people knew about the actual conditions of impoverished communities (ie., lack of businesses – work, lack of fresh food venders, lack of transportation, lack of city services, environmental toxins/proximity to factories) they would realize their opinions stem from an ignorance of their own privilege. Acknowledging white and middle class privileges is the first step.
"The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members."
You are a sadly delusional man who walks in the world of white privilege. Come walk in the reality of a black kid in their reality and you'll see what it's really like…wait you don't have to, instead you'll hide behind your pen, paper and pontificate at Forbes…safe pedestal for cowards.
The really amazing thing to me is that you didn't even follow your own "recipe" in writing in article on a subject that you admitted was beyond your grasp.
You didn't "study hard" or "use technology" or "find friendly people who know more". If you had, you would've been able to get in touch with people from community/social organizations or urban schools that would've been able to set you straight. Or be put in contact with actual poor kids from poor neighborhoods, and spend half as much time you think they need to spend on your recipe, on yourself learning from them, in the role of a student, how their world works. If you'd followed your own recipe, you might have decided that it was best to write a different column. In fact, people here have tried to educate you on this and you've just dug in.
Which leads into another important thing that anyone who comes up hardscrabble and becomes successful learns, which you don't mention in your article: the ability to lower one's instinctive shields of self-defense when criticized, and to accept that other people with experience have a point sometimes and that one can be wrong and learn from it. Here, you're doing the opposite. So no, I don't think you'd do that great in the shoes of one of your imagined "poor black kids."
Mr. Marks, the problem is that you have the privilege to stick with what you wrote without having to acknowledge the harm that you have caused by writing it. If you choose not to, you never have to acknowledge the fact that "middle-class" white people like you and I can take this articles as evidence that all that "poor black kids" need to get ahead is their own will to do so and therefore, we need not think about our own actions, the culture of anti-intellectualism in the US, or the systemic prejudice in place keeping these kids back. We can continue to live comfortably believing that we are absolved of any responsibility. It is unfortunate that you are not able to learn from Ryan's experience because his taking the time to attempt to educate you is yet another privilege that you hold and choose to squander. Though you will not accept it, I must say, "shame on you."
Really well said. Any person who hasn't the experience to back up what they are saying, nor the research and citations should write an article on what they know about. The sympathy in the article is obviously well meaning, but so wrongly misinformed. I wouldn't expect a suburb-living middle class computer programmer to have any acquired knowledge on the topic. Doesn't make him a bad person, but someone in the middle class should be learned enough not to talk about the world as though it were some utopic place where all problems are resolved easily and immediately.
First, let me applaud you for acknowledging that you have benefited from being a White Man (as opposed to doing like most of your kind and complain about how you are being reversely discriminated against, as if such a thing exists….)
Insightful commentary. Insightful in the sense that it is always good to know exactly how others view my kind– I am, as many who have commented, one of the poor Black kids that you wag your finger down to…
Your commentary is fatally flawed in that its basis consists of nothing but unwarranted, unqualfied assumptions:
1. you say Black kids can get help from their guidance counselor— in doing so, you falsely assume that all guidance counselors are (1) racially non-discriminatory and (2) adequate enough to advocate for poor Black students. Prime example me. My guidance counselor, a proud Rebel-flag toting man, told me to apply to a trade school and refused to help me apply for a national scholarship that required his signature.
2. You say that Black kids should use technology to get good grades— another fatally flawed assumption that (1) Black kids have access to technology in their classroom or homes or (2) Black kids have the means of transportation to access this technology that you speak of.
3. You then say apply that they should apply to the best schools that they can– assuming, (1) these students know how to properly apply, even further assuming that they have received proper instruction from school officials and parents on how to apply. Take the case of Haitian high school students I worked with, who were unable to attend college because their parents, wary of the government, refused to complete their child's FAFSA papers.
I studied hard and worked hard. I eventually went to Harvard and now am a law student. I grew up in a single parent home. Fortunately, my MOTHER also was educated.
Which brings me to my last point– parental involvement is the primary indicator of any child's success. I was fortunate to have a mother to teach me about college, who had the time to work with my school teachers to ensure that I was being properly served. Some of my friends unfortunately did not have that chance– their parents worked many jobs to support them, and were unable to tend to their educational needs. Or their parents themselves lacked and adequate education, and could not help their children out.
In short, you are right, there are resources out there. But it is dangerous to assume that these resources are readily available to anyone. A look inside in inner city school vs. a suburban school will reveal to you the widening disparities between the 2 entities in terms of accessibility to college preparation.
I am only offended because in the process of your patronizing rant, you assume that Black students are unmotivated and lazy. But Gene, until you have walked a mile in my shoes—-well, suffice to say, you should have stopped at acknowledged your privileged status as White Male.
There's no cure for what you have.
Mr. Marks, I am sure that you have heard from many teachers and other public servants who work with students from a variety of economic, ethnic, regional, and cultural backgrounds. Nevertheless, your essay compels me, a public school teacher, to write. It is not clear why you felt inspired to write this piece. What is the main purpose that you're hoping to achieve? If it's to inspire that hypothetical poor black kid you've conjured up, is a commentary on Forbes the best venue for doing so? Does your hypothetical poor black kid read Forbes or even know what it is? Perhaps a Forbes commentary about what you would do as a hypothetical, wealthy 1%'er would be more suited to the readership. Or rather to the point, you could work as a tutor or as a Big Brother to a real, live poor black kid from a real ghetto. He or she might benefit from a personal, supportive, and steady connection with someone such as yourself who could guide them to see beyond the depravity of their life circumstances. You could achieve real, measurable results mentoring to build one or two individual lives rather than simply postulating with broad, prescriptive brushstrokes. It's not easy work, but you seem like a real smart and resourceful guy. If I were a smart, middle-class, white guy who cared, I'd roll up my sleeves and travel to the trenches to see what really goes on and what I could do to help. As an aside, I've always wondered when people make the argument that you've made, would you be willing to move to the inner city and/or the projects to raise your children? That would be the great social experiment by which you could test your hypothetical situation.
"Because a poor black kid who gets good grades, has a part time job and becomes proficient with a technical skill will go to college. There is financial aid available. There are programs available."
…that you and your republican counterparts consistently vote against, cut, defund, and/or complain about.
Dear Author:
Then take down your article. Individual will is FAR from being the only thing that determines success. Cultural heritage plays the biggest role. Why is that most poor black kids want to either be rap stars or play in the NBA? Why is that most poor black kids in New Orleans are taken to gun violence instead of doing homework? The world is NOT as cut and dry as you make it out to be, and if kids don't have a rigid structure around them, keeping them on focus and providing them with opportunities, as you surely had growing up in your white middle class household and as your kids have now, then they will be taken to the easiest and most popular thing around them. That's why these kids' drive for success gets translated into these other more visible and popular realms.
Again, please, READ OUTLIERS. Thank you.
You should not stand by this bullshit you've written. Just so you know I'm one of the "poor black kids" you're writing about. Let me say first and foremost, you don't know me, or anyone like me. You also don't know my situation or what other concerns I have in my life that may prevent me from doing all that you prescribe in this poorly written article. What is your intent with this article, that some poor black kid stumbles across it and breaks the cycle of uneducated welfare dogs that they are expected to become? Do you think poor black kids read Forbes blogs? If so you're an idiot. If not, you're simply trying to pretend to be interested in fixing the plight of people you could care less about to make yourself seem more enlightened. But I see right through you. Just so you know I independently discovered a l lot of the things you suggest here and I did them myself and wound up graduating from Stanford last year and I didn't need some prick on a Forbes blog to tell me how to do it. Your assumption that these hapless youth have no idea what's available to them is patently false. This article is a disgrace, and you should request that your editor remove it because it makes you look like a clown.
The fact that you continue to stand by your article despite obvious counterpoints to your arguments is appalling. You were never a 'poor black kid' and have obviously not done any significant research into what it is like to be one. Since when is using a 'few teacher friends' as a source of facts appropriate for any sort of article? Pull your head out of your ass and consider what people are telling you.
You would.
Dear Gene, if you really believe that the opportunity is there and "equal" for everyone, why don't you goand live in that same West Philadelphia neighborhood you speak of. Try stepping into the shoes of the poor black kids who if they did all the things you suggest will have a chance. Try worrying about dodging bullets, gangs, prostitution and drugs outside (and sometimes inside) of your home and your life everyday. If you have not considered doing any of these things, your words mean nothing.
Wonderful reply! As a "Poor Black Child" just lucky enough to graduate from Harvard, I concur with your response!
It would be really funny if your blood was replaced with fire. Like, spontaneously I mean. Just walkin' along, fresh set of bootstraps in your shopping bag and then FWOOF "OH GOD MY BLOOD HAS TURNED INTO FIRE. I HAVE NO BLOOD ALL I HAVE IS FIRE. HOW IS THAT EVEN SCIENTIFICALLY POSSIBLE."
Poor kids in poor schools often have poor teachers, poor principals, poor guidance counselors, and poorly-supplied libraries and labs. Rural white kids, urban black kids, and countless kids not so neatly categorized go through the education system like widgets on a rolling track; the track slows down at certain stations while meaningless "product" is loaded on, and at the end of the line, they disembark not always even certain of where to make the next connection. The public education system needs a massive shaking-up. Its failure to prepare programs, teachers, and administrators is the stuff of legend. The kids with financially and socially secure families and communities get some of what they need, but kids from pretty much every other demographic profile make do with scraps and serendipity. There's nothing wrong with motivation and hard work, but the people who benefit most from those variables tend to be surrounded by successful relatives, friends, neighbors, etc. Poor kids in poor communities are no strangers to hard working adults. The trouble is, in poverty, hard work is often not well rewarded. It just burns people out.
Mr. Marks,
It amazes me that you would have the stones to even attempt to place yourself in the mindset of a poor Black kid. Your very station in life makes it completely impossible for you to have any perspective, insight or authenticity to make any of the claims that you make in your article. You cannot say what you would do if you were a poor black kid, because every day of your life, you have been exactly the opposite.
It incenses me when people try to say "what they would do if…" Please don't patronize the African American community or any of the poor communities of our country with your justification of why the status quo works. I was able to acheive a post graduate degree and make a pretty good living, in spite of all of the obstacles facing me in the late 70′s and early 80′s and in spite of the fact that I shot myself in the foot and ended up behind bars like so many other men of color. I blame no-one but myself. I picked myself up, dusted myself off and made a life for my family and I – in spite of. My daughter recently graduated from Washington University in St. Louis on a full academic scholarship – in spite of. And, armed with that "street credibility", I would still never have the unmitigated gall to tell one of the young black males that I work with – in my church, my community and those who I go in to work with in prisons – what I would do if I were them. It's sad that you have no clue that the best thing that someone of your station could do to actually be of any assistance to any "poor black kid" would be to listen to them, see their circumstances and provide a hand up. However, the tone of your article says that you are in favor of the staus quo, a pound of cure that is ineffective, while not even considering the ounce of prevention that could possible stem the tide of insittutional racism and neo-oppression that plagues the USA.
Hi Ryan:
I tend to agree with your line of thinking and thought you might enjoy reading "Life Isn't Fair" http://onforb.es/tiSPUj
1) Use technology to get good grades: As ryanc86 said, many have no access to technology. Libraries in the city are not necessarily close or safe to walk to as a kid. Plus most PC's there book up with the unemployed.
2) Apply to best schools: Many of the parents haven't graduated grade school, much less high school. I was going into computers as a field and never knew of U of I at Champaign, 2 hours from me, who were developing Netscape at that time. These parents are more clueless than the kids. I went into the school of lib arts, never realizing computer majors were in the engineering school.
3) Get help from the guidance counselor: With 2 counselors in a school of 2,000, I got a whopping 5 minutes. "What school are you thinking of?" "Ok, that's good".
4) Learn a good skill: Many kids with non-professional parents don't even know how to research a field, or what is involved in professional jobs. I researched accounting by saying "That looks boring". Never even looked at what it was.
And I was not poor, I was lower middle class white, and top 1%. You are drastically underestimating the barriers.
"Mandates don't create fairness".
However, no mandates or regulations definitely can lead to unfairness like we have now.
By the way, my other comment with 4 points was supposed to be in reply to Gene Marks, I must have hit the wrong button.
I agree. There were 4 of us in a 4 room apartment, with the TV going while mom worked. Three kids to a small bedroom.
I couldn't work in there, and never did homework. When I went to college, we had to live at home because mom couldn't afford the apartment without our financial input. The noise in there was deafening, and there was nowhere to study but on the couch by the TV (that worked well!).
I supported the whole family for 3 months before college, when my mom had Hong Kong flu, as she had no sick time and no health insurance.
@ryanc86 – I couldn't agree with you more. I was a poor black kid in the same situation as yours, and it is only sheer luck that I got into or even found out about the private school that I went to in Detroit. I still had to supplement our family income by sweeping floors and washing dishes and I never got to touch a computer until I got to college. I don't think that a person that grew up with the trappings of middle or upper class life will ever be able to fully comprehend the utter desolation that is the life of a hardworking, but spinning-their-wheels-and-not-getting-ahead poor person.
Mr. Marks, I suppose that I appreciate the list of educational apps. But there are egregious, fundamental errors in your column, and I think it was irresponsibly underresearched. The fact that you were allowed to write it at all, under the umbrella of a well-respected publication, frightens me and belies your privileged status.
The fact that you "believe" that there is equality of opportunity in America doesn't make it true. Didn't you read, for example, the recent study by the Pew Charitable Trusts Economic Mobility Project (a summary here: http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/pdfs/CRITA_FINAL.pdf)? It demonstrates that the United States scores lower than all other industrialized democracies on economic mobility, indicating that–as the director put it–there are environmental factors (that is, institutions and policies) at work that make it harder for a poor kid to move up here than in Europe and Canada.
Or, since you seem to prefer anecdotes to empirical evidence, didn't you watch, for example, Waiting for Superman? The documentary follows several poor kids who "study hard and get good grades" and (in addition) are blessed with loving, ambitious parents. Their economic mobility is by no means guaranteed, though they have taken your advice and applied "to the best schools they can."
Even assuming that your equality-of-opportunity contention is valid, which it is not, I also take umbrage at the incendiary title, "If I Were A Poor Black Kid." Race, poverty, and access to developmentally appropriate education have a complex relationship, to be sure. But you did not so much as make a passing reference to any race-related social advantage or disadvantage. Race was absolutely irrelevant to your piece.
I second ryanc86: Shame on you for writing this column. Since you believe so fervently in these online resources, I challenge you to introduce a "poor black kid" to them by volunteering your time as a tutor or Big Brother.
Another poor white kid here who ended up going to UC Berkeley and then onto medical school. Pretty "good skill," right? Ryanc86 hit every nail on the head. Aside from learning to read well, (which is a skill that many, many rich kids don't have) you are utterly wrong in your assessment. Those of us who have lived through it are the only ones who can speak to this issue with any real expertise. You can stand beside your ignorance, but understand that it won't actually mean or change anything.
This is what helps a poor person of any color become successful: Food. Clothing. Shelter. Heat. Community support. Mentorship (not guidance counseling). A reprieve from violence. One consistent adult. Hope. Financial guidance. Reliable transportation. Health. And it really doesn't hurt if you're the ultimate combination of white, traditionally attractive and male. In other words, lucky.
I know this because most of these things had to come together for me before I was able to start college at the age of 25. I didn't go to high school because I had none of those things, and worked to eat. I now mentor people under-represented in the sciences on how to get into college and then graduate school, and almost all of them do. But I can't remember ever telling someone to learn how to code or try to get a full ride scholarship into a prep school.
Do you see the contradictions in your own comment? "Everyone" along with SIX loaded conditional statements…if, if, if. Essentially you are admitting that opportunity for poor black kids is a one in a million chance.
Maybe you don't understand how difficult many of the items you outlined are to achieve. I taught in low-income schools for six years, so I can share a few points from firsthand experience. Good grades at a crummy poor school? Many times those grades are inflated by overworked or incompetent teachers whose highest expectation is that students sit quietly and turn in assignments. Not how well they've mastered the material. Assuming that anything has been taught in the first place. So straight A's don't mean a high SAT score even if a 4.0 was easy to achieve. Apply to the best schools? How do they know what the best schools are? Who provides them with that information? Oh, yes. Technology, which is not as likely to be present in their home as you believe and their proficiency is more likely limited. An average low-income school doesn't provide students an education in technology use. Guidance counselors? Many low-income high schools in CA have two counselors for over a thousand students. What kind of individualized attention do think that allows for? Make sure they learn a good skill? Who's paying for that? Who's making those opportunities available and known to poor black kids?
Would such a miniscule chance be good enough for one of your children, who you admit couldn't do it on their own? I think not. Yet it's good enough for poor black children. Your tone is an insult because it makes it sound so simple (duh!) when your privilege is precisely what makes these 'solutions' seem so obvious.
I work for an organization that provides educational opportunities for low-income students and we work our butts off to get them to and through college. I believe that "poor black kids" can succeed, but the supports they require go far beyond what you've outlined.
This is like saying I believe everyone can become President if they study hard and go to an Ivy League school. If they get elected to mayor then Congress. If they raise enough money to overcome an incumbent, and if they survive a series of smears and character attacks. Is it impossible? No. Is it likely for everyone? No.
But we don't need everyone to become President, we do, however, need more poor black kids to succeed and your advice doesn't achieve that.
If I were a moderately successful white guy, I'd pursue a parasitic career with a big four firm that sells bullshit to other white people packaged as audit, technology and/or management consulting. I'd pretend that this career qualifies me to give any sort of advice to anyone, because I've been drinking my own kool-aid and truly believe that what I do requires any sort of skill or intelligence. After about ten years of creating terrible PowerPoint slides on topics about which I have no real knowledge, I'd retire into industry somewhere to peddle my pedantic horsecrap for an hour or two a day while a bunch of guys named Amar and Srikant are doing all the actual work and research. After another few decades driving my ostentatious car, pursuing ridiculous hobbies, and making my life as boring as possible, I'd fade into total irrelevance and oblivion
Dear Mr. Marks,
I wholeheartedly disagree with your sentiments, and I don't know if this is one of those pieces just to catch the eye of the public or simply your thoughts on how the world works for a particular class, race, and age group in America, but I believe it to be a truly a misguided hypothetical for the real life of poor black kids.
For a poor black kid it is hard enough to get attention in the classroom let alone from a guidance counselor who is swamped with paperwork for students in trouble, in jail, and on the brink of dropping out of school. If you were a poor black kid, what makes you think that you would be lucky enough to be exposed to the opportunities of higher education and think for even an instant that you could succeed? So many poor black students receive negative reinforcement from their communities so they don't even apply to college because it is too expensive and scared by the common stories of disappointment where dreams deferred never came true. And if we are talking about poor, as in uniform wearing-police dog sniffing- security check at the door-public school-poor, then you would be in a school that is run more like a preparatory jail program to control students behavior rather than a supportive learning environment. In this space, half of the computers would be broken, and you wouldn't know about most of the resources that you noted in the article. And when you would finally access a computer, the internet was always down or you wouldn't be able to access the websites because of school system security.
If you were a poor black kid, your school might be attached to a trade school that teaches you the "good skill" of being a beautician, barber, mechanic, or typist. This is great, right? But is it really great when students in a neighboring community are learning drafting and design, sculpting, marine biology, and get the latest technology to help the better prepare for not only college, but for job opportunities because of the human resources and networks in the community? As these two communities coexist alongside one another, this type of environment continues the cycle of class hierarchy and breeds a culture of expectation.
Yes, there are stories of that one poor black kid that got out, but at what about the rest of them? Is it because they didn't have enough luck in the game of life to win a golden ticket to college and out of the ghetto or are they just too poor in this monopoly of power to buy them a clue? Or maybe the dice were loaded and cards were stacked against them since they are poor and black?
Mr. Marks, I am one of few poor black kids that made it to college, and I don't say this with pride. Out of the 186 students that graduated in my 2008 class, only a hand full went to school and even fewer went to top tier colleges. Every time I go back to my hometown, I find out that someone in my class has passed away, is in jail, or just had a (or another) baby. What's worse is that I'm no longer conditioned to think that hard work and good grades gives opportunity- there are those who buy their way into almost anything. Now that I've been exposed to the world and the knowledge that this is America- a monopoly of power where some people are born not only inalienable rights, but also the privilege of not having to deal with the problems of being a poor black kid- I'm doing what I can to change it.
Beliefs such as yours Mr. Marks are counterproductive to what any student – no matter their race or class- needs to hear. For those poor black students that had enough time to peruse the internet at the library or possibly on their own computer, and found this article, they needed more encouragement to pursue their passion in life, not just "learn a good skill". They need not to hear another story of "you should do this" or "I would do that" from a stranger who has and never will have to live their lives. If we are standing in the land of hypotheticals, I have a question: What would you do to help poor black kids? In the real life of poor black kids, what are you going to do?
A Former Poor Black Kid
Mr. Marks,
Many inner-city children suffer from PTSD and number of other psychological ailments because of the conditions that they are being raised in. How do you propose they deal with that, wikipedia or cliff notes? I suspect that you will be writing about the troops that return from the Middle East and how they should just get jobs and leave the past bombings behind.
Your article is some of the most racist and dangerous garbage I have ever read.
I am a black women from a wealthy white suburban community. I had a mother who was home and prepared wonderful healthy meals, three times a day. I went to some of the top schools in the nation from as early as pre-school, and graduated from an Ivy League University that my mother paid for in its entirety. With all that pedigree I still run into racism on the job front, I still have to suffer off color comments and ridiculous assumptions.
I worked my tail off in school to make all A's and I still have difficulty in this country so tell me how an inner city child is supposed to ignore whatever psychological damage that's been done, ignore whatever neglect they have endured, ignore the fear for their life with gang violence and ignore the overwhelming depression that many of these children suffer and only focus on making good grades.
Did the kids at your school get beat up for making A's Mr. Marks? No, not at my school either.
With all this, I would not begin to try and figure out how young impoverished children should manage a life in the ghetto.
I've had to endure ignorant white men like you my entire life. It's mind boggling how far your head is up your ass.
You are an embarrassment to Americans and a large part of the infestation of racism that cripples this country. Forbes should take your column away from you and your editor should be fired. How dare you suggest that the children who fail academic excellence in the ghetto are simply too empathetic to find recourses. How dare you claim to have the faintest idea of what anybody needs. Focus on you and your family. Read, travel and for god sakes, don't write any more articles.
I've never been more offended. I have many family members who fall into the category of 'poor black child' and feel that you owe them and all the readers of Forbes an apology and then resign along with your editor.
Mr. Marks while I appreciate the thoughts, your white privilege affords you the opportunity to be blind to institutional racism and a government that establishes policies that further marginalizes blacks and others who don't look like or behave like mom in pop in the all American white family photo album. You assume that every parent of a poor black child can afford a cheap computer which is not accurate and you also assume that many inner city neighborhoods have libraries which they don't. In fact, you assume alot and sound just like many GOP/conservatives who espouse that same crap…. just work hard and you will be rewarded and achieve the American dream. Well guess what? You have much to learn about poor black kids and families because owning a LEASE LEXUS and paying on a Mortgage is not FREEDOM! Furthermore, your assumption that poor black kids don't already work hard is frieghtening. I guess you don't think they don't know they have to work twice as hard as others because of the color of their skin or the barriers they face everyday, especially young black men. Hell black children are told from the day they are born that they have to work twice as hard at everything because of the hypocrisy of this country. I think you mean well, but your inherent racism and white privilege blinds you from the reality of the inequities in a system designed to oppress by the powers to be. Additionally, you do not take into account the unhealthy pscyhological functioning of many oppress folks who crumble under the delibitating socio-economics factors they live under. Do some of them overcome these barriers, yes but not enough especially in a world that strips blacks at every level to assimilate. Perhaps you should do some more reading to better understand what I am saying instead of handing out that "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" lectures. Your understated inference here is typical. Btw Obama's middle class message makes me want to throw the hell up.
ou have much to learn about poor black kids and families b
I agree upgradediddy and Mr. Marks white privilege is astounding.
Mr. Marks thank you for your thoughts, but your article is rather condescending and speaks volumes to your cultural ignorance. I guess you are handing out advice based off the assumption that poor black kids don't already know what to do to better their circumstances. You also left out a signficant part of this equation and that is "institutional racism" that is killing black communities. Just because "segregation" was deem illegal doesn't mean that other means of social controls are not in place. Furthermore, segregation is still well and alive especially within the educational system. Your article is not far from that of Newt's last week about poor minority children being lazy. In fact, you write from a position of white privilege that blinds you. Please spare black children and our communities the "just work hard speech and you will be rewarded for your work" Owning a LEASE LEXUS and paying on a mortgage, ain't Freedom for us! Hell black children are told from the time they can walk by their parents that they have to work twice as hard as others because of the color of their skin and because of the hypocrisy of this country. Your assumption that poor black children parents can afford cheap computers is just that an "assumption", your assumption that inner city neighborhoods have libraries is also false… your assumption that black children don't go to the library is also false.. You are just all over the place with "assumptions" and your inferences and allusions feed right into those who think that poor black children don't have any values or don't work hard or don't know what the hell they have to do to get the crumbs this world hands out to them. You also fail to take into account the unhealthy psychological functioning that many have due to the delibitating socio-economics they live under and their inability to deal with their circumstances. Do some overcome these barriers, yes, but not enough and it has nothing to do with their work ethic either. So do us black folk a favor, spare us your self-righteous sanctimony, we already know we have to work twice as hard. Perhaps it is you that should work twice as hard at looking at other sociological reasons why poor black children don't have access to the opportunities who skin color ain't white.
love you guys responses.. funny as hell
I would like to know how much experience you have with the inner city community in West Philadelphia? Your article is filled to the brim with the nasty ignorance that perpetuates the inequities our country is facing! Do you have any idea how hard it is for these children? I do… I taught at Gratz and King. Can't you see that there is so much more to this problem than just "hey kids, do well in school"? I would just like to address the things you said in your comment above quick a second too…
You say the "opportunity is there for everyone if they…." and then you list a bunch of things. But what you are failing to realize is that many (probably most) children in poor households DON'T have the opportunity to "study hard and get good grades". Because for most people that means putting in EXTRA time outside of the classroom, which many of this 'kids' just don't have.
I would also venture a guess that using "technology to help them get good grades" is another opportunity that many poor children aren't lucky enough to have. In fact, they might not even have much access to technology in school. These schools are incredibly under-funded. I didn't even had an overhead projector in my class.
Also, getting "help from their guidance counselor" can be quite tricky as well. You see, there is so little money for these schools the typical student load for a counselor was 400-500 students. Now in a more affluent school system (at least in the ones I attended) that was never the case. A counselor had 100-250 tops. Let's take one more look at the counselor thing for a sec. The counselors in affluent schools help their students with applications and other little things like deciding on classes etc. But, the majority of the guidance comes from home. They might have a handful of kids that need intensive individual attention. It is the complete opposite for an inner city counselor. There may only be 15-20 (out of their load of 400-500 students) that truly understand how academics work and what goes in to college applications etc.
I guess what it comes down to, is that an article like this one breaks my heart… It only spreads ignorance and ignorance can often become fear and hate. I beg you to shadow an inner city teacher for a month and learn about these children you think you can related to enough to say what you think you would do in their shoes. Do some research on inner city education. Look into Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Please… I'm asking from the bottom of my heart. I know teachers that you can shadow or at least visit. I know students that you can talk to. I even have literature that I can suggest.
Thinking the way you do is kind of a cop-out, as a country we have to admit some ugly truths to ourselves and start figuring out how to help the problem instead of ignoring it or making it someone else's problem :(
There are many opportunities for people in this country regardless of race or income. For you to spell out, step-by-step, the ways that these problems can be overcome from your own lofty perspective is by no means an answer to the problems of racial inequality that this country has been facing since it's inception. I have no doubt that hard work has contributed to whatever success you have, but the fact of the matter is that your work, and the thought behind it, are pitifully poor. I suggest that rather than advise "Poor Black Kids" on how to achieve your levels of greatness, you examine your own shortcomings and actually immerse yourself in the problem on which you write with such painful ignorance.
Hey Gene,
I'm that poor black kid you're talking about. I grew up in low income housing in Newark, NJ. I went to a magnet high school because I happened to have a talent for playing an instrument. If there were computers as readily accessible to me in the '80s as you believe there are now for young people in the inner city, I would have been the one to take advantage of the programs you mentioned. I met with my guidance counselor regularly in my Senior year and went to college on full scholarship. I graduated with a 3.49999 average (just missed cum laude!) and went on to a successful career in advertising. I'm married, currently working full-time and make enough money to raise my black kids in a suburban environment–a far cry from how I grew up. BUT MY LIFE IS A BLESSING, NOT A RULE OF THUMB.
I wish my story was the same for all of my peers. My parents had the benefit of being employed full time throughout my youth. My mom worked for the phone company and was able to give my sister and I opportunities, such as music lessons and bus ride vacations, which helped us see more than the city limits of Newark. I didn't have parents who were strung out on drugs. I didn't have 6 or 7 other brothers and sisters to help raise. We were never homeless. My dad, an immigrant from the West Indies, was able to get a "good job" for blacks back in those days. He would often comment how the white men he worked side by side with would consider him "different" from other blacks.
My parents divorced when I was 12, but my dad was always around. We would spend weekends with him. Many of my peers in my low income neighborhood didn't even know of the existence of their biological fathers.
Before this becomes my autobiography, let me point out that the "luck" you spoke of has been a tremendous part of my life to date. I call it faith. My belief in God and religious upbringing made all of my opportunities possible. But my story is an anomaly.
Might I add that I'm also female, which opens more doors for me in the corporate setting. I have yet to work in an environment where there are even 3 African-Americans at my level, and I can't even remember the last time I worked directly with an African-American male. My current level of achievement separates me from many of my friends and peers from "way back in the day."
Today, my mom refuses to leave Newark, and when I go to visit her, I am reminded that the poor black youth today have to deal with so much more than I was even subject to 30 years ago. Your recipe is so easy? Come with me down to Irvington, NJ, where I used to run a literacy program for youth. Use your money, resources, and influence to touch the lives of these poor black youth you are so interested in.
I'm just sayin'.
Are you really this ignorant?
Suppose the guidance counselor is not adequate, and does not do his/her job well? I have no problem saying ALL my "guidance counselors" DID NOT provide much guidance if any at all throughout my entire high school, college, and grad school matriculation, and this is a middle class BLACK woman from middle class Wisconsin. Who is your audience?? Black children from West Philly? Since you claim they have a lack of access to technology how will they read this article? Instead of writing airy, shallow articles on Forbes.com where most likely you will only catch the eyes of your other ignorant peers, how about we put this plan of yours into action?
Would you, oh great middle class White savior, who has all the answers, dare to VISIT West Philiadelphia and MENTOR one of these "poor black kids" that you speak of. Because unless you have the gaul to actually ACT and truly walk in the shoes of a poor black child, or help with changing of minds and helping a child succeed, blaring your arrogantly narrow-minded opinion over the web isn't solving a damn thing.
Mr. Marks, I'm highly offended by so much of you wrote. I plan on using this article as a key example of the white privilege and racial ignorance that still pervades society today. Racial disparities in education begin before kids enter the first grade. How is any 6 year old supposed to know this information, and the gap only widens from there. What was even the point of this article. Are benevolent school teachers supposed to print it out and hand it to the good, poor black students as a blue print for success. One comment box cannot contain the number of ways you have outed yourself as a racially ignorant and insensitive, middle class…you get the idea.
!!!!!! #right #wellfuckingsaid
did you even think that alot of these poor balck kids come from violent filled, drug/alcohol infested, homes?? did you even think alot of these poor black kids have abusive parents and dont care if these kids wander the street at 10 pm at night? you have to be quite ignorant to write a coloumn like this and not even be in a poor black kids shoes..i grew up wit drug addicted father for most of my life..i had very promising potential..was a honor roll student till i hit a certain grade and everything went down hill..i didnt know it then but i was depressed..to see my father that way everyday..to blame myself and thinking he would die and never come home.. i could never focus again..till i barely passed HS and finished college wit a 3.4 GPA..my mother was the only one who continued to push me..i was one of the lucky ones..some are not..case in point, you have no idea why these kids psychologically fail or how much stress there under when they go home or if they can even go home..SO TO THIS author YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT U ARE TALKING ABOUT!
gene marks, you are wrong. doing the best in your circumstance is, of course, necessary. but to ask the extraordinary of an entire population is ludicrous and statistically impossible. since you do not know what it entails to be poor, i dont know how you can suggest ways to manage it. if you have never worked a full-time job while in high school, had younger siblings, lost your home while still in secondary or primary school, lived in a one parent, one income home, or had any burden that comes with being poor, i dont understand how you can suggest solutions. it is significantly easier to get good grades when school is your only responsibility, but most poor people are not afforded that opportunity.
i attend an ivy league college now, my parents (i had 2) sacrificed IMMENSELY (ive never seen my dad by new clothes, a new car, new anything) to allow me the opportunity to go to good schools … e.g. living in an apartment with a 5 member family in a neighborhood they could not afford so i didnt go to a terrible school. and i wasnt even that poor. STILL all of my opportunities were not strategic, known, planned. Had it not been for my parents choosing to live in a neighborhood they could not afford, I would have never accessed the high school program I applied to. I would not be a this school. I would have had to rely on scholarships instead of needbased financial aid. And even being "not the poor," I feel the strain of "poverty" as I am IN COLLEGE. When I can't afford my thousand dollar books, when I can't study abroad, afford to do internships, register for classes bc the need-based financial aid doesnt cover a couple thousand that my parents dont have — understand that stress/instability detracts from the ability to perform.
put yourself in a situation where you dont know where your life is unstable, and see how well you perform.
omg..i was just thinking this…did he even think that alot of these poor balck kids come from violent filled, drug/alcohol infested, homes?? did he even think alot of these poor black kids have abusive parents and dont care if these kids wander the street at 10 pm at night? this guy is a fool..an ignorant fool at that..i grew up wit drug addicted father for most of my life..i had very promising potential..was a honor roll student till i hit a certain grade and everything went down hill..i didnt know it then but i was depressed..to see my father that way everyday..the violence i saw between him and my mother..to blame myself and thinking he would die and never come home.. i could never focus again..till i barely passed HS and finished college wit a 3.4 GPA..my mother was the only one who continued to push me..i was one of the lucky ones..most dont even make it past teen yrs…case in point, this ignorant racist guy has no idea why these kids psychologically fail or how much stress there under when they go home or if they can even go home for fear of being killed..so to this author i say i unless u were a poor black kid than i suggest u take a seat!!
Your ignorance is overwhelming and insulting. Your article clearly reflects the narrow-minded, self-righteous and pompous views of a "middle class white guy" raised by the same type of family and background. Stick to "mediocre accounting" as you are ill-qualified and a disaster as a commentator of social and cultural issues!
What gets me more upset is that you continue to "stick" to what you wrote. Even if they are able to beat the odds, study hard and get good grades, have access to a computer and get into a good college, does not mean that they will find success. When they graduate from their urban school system and find out that they have barely an 8th grade education when they are compared to everyone else, then they are still lagging behind! In addition, every year it is more difficult to get into college and stay in college. The costs of a college education is ridiculous and soaring every year. Even if they are more than lucky and earn a scholarship for tuition, what about transportation, books, eating at school, and all the other things needed for college. Then let us say they are really beating the odds and graduate from college. It is still harder for minorities to find a good paying job.
Please stick to writing about the business of technology because you have no idea about the business of poverty, the business of racial stereotypes and definitely the issue of being a poor black kid.
If you still think all this is possible, why don't you move to the other side of the city and enroll your kids in that school system. Just that much is enough to limit their success – and they are not black!
I understand your intent, I appreciate that you recognize that you have more privilege as a white, heterosexual male but try doing something with that privilege. You can be an aid in providing the opportunity you think they deserve. Don't hide behind your computer and hope someone else does. Pay it forward.
If I were a "middle aged" & "mediocre" white guy who is the senior manager at KPMG, I would go into these schools, and work with these "poor black kids" I think I relate to. In order to make their futures brighter, I would teach them how to utilize the technology that I claim can save them from their "misfortune", show them that it is there in the first place and offer a just bit of my larger salary to get them the "cheap technology some parents can buy…to keep their kids off the streets" instead of trying empathize with them and their "2 job" having parents from my corner office where I can observe such "misfortune" 20+ floors above. – I would also change the title and the tone of this over generalized, over simplified and terribly dismissive article.
-also: black kids aren't the only demographic who need help in this country or even in Philidelphia. They aren't the only demographic that are poor either.
his is a typical self hate that he heaps onto society for his own good
I'm with you ryanc. As black woman who grew up a "poor black kid" I busted my butt to get into Yale, but when I got there, I almost left after 2 weeks because I was so unprepared and so out of place. The title of this piece "If I was a poor black kid" is the kind of title that makes one wonder what the author was thinking. Serioulsy??? What he means is if I was a middle class (whatever he means by that) white guy acting like I knew jack about being poor or black in the inner city I'd make the following ridiculous assumptions. Another key thing that's left out here, that Mr. Marks is so glaringly ignorant of, is how poor black (white, latino, asian, arab, etc) kids are sometimes beaten down by the world and told by teachers, administrators, parents, or fellow students that they are nothing and will never amount to anything. I work with inner city students right now and you wouldn't believe the stories I've heard. People are constantly telling poor black boys that they will end up in jail if they don't be have, whereas a middle class kid may be told he/she wont get into a good college. That kind of language scars a kid and sets their expectations for themselves.
Also, how about the fact, Mr. Marks, that our poor communities are having to fight tooth and nail to keep our schools and libraries open? And what is fighting to get into a charter or magnet school, but fighting for scraps?
Thank you Ryan C and everyone else for pointing out the devastating effect of poverty. Just because a few us of poor kids make it to a good college doesn't mean poverty has no meaning, and it also doesn't mean that the continued poverty of our families has no effect on us into our adulthood. Get a clue Mr. Marks and the next time you get the bright idea to write an article like this, actually visit west Philly first, walk into a school, talk to some students and families and check your assumptions at the door.
You are naive.
Suggest you stop by the OWS demonstrations and spend time time gathering empirical and anecdotal evidence to support your claims of how hard work and perseverance equate to success in this country for not only poor black youth but for the ir poor and former middle class white peers.
I further suggest that you get out of your office more.
You need to spend 1 year teaching in a low performing school in North Philadelphia and you will disagree with the premise of your article. You are very misinformed about what's happening in our nation's schools.
What you fundamentally fail to understand is that access to information, and specifically information about how the class and employment system in the US functions, is itself a form of privilege.
Basically what you are saying is, "If I could take everything I've learned in 40-some years of living on this planet, all the knowledge and wisdom I've gained, and go back to middle school for a do-over, I'd do really well, even in bad circumstances!"
Well of course you would – we all would! Unfortunately, even the brightest, most motivated middle schoolers do not possess the wisdom of adults. That is why they need adults to teach and guide them.
What makes bad schools bad is, in part, the inability of teachers to really mentor each student, for many reasons including high teacher-student ratios, the need to constantly deal with serious problem kids, and the fact that it's a lot harder for hungry, stressed-out, often traumatized kids to sit and absorb life lessons than for basically OK middle-class kids to do so.
What makes poor communities poor is, in part, the fact that adults aren't in a position to give good advice. I know several people from poor backgrounds whose parents, minister, and high school guidance counselor all advised them to take on crippling student loans because that was what they saw as the way out. (Of course the Republicans will turn around and blame those people, who were aiming for the only beacon of hope they could see and taking the only grown-up advice they could get, for being "irresponsible.")
Your argument boils down to, "If by some miracle a poor black kid's brain was suddenly flooded with all the knowledge and ability to navigate "the system" one normallly acquires through attending college and spending adulthood in the company of upper-to-middle-class people… then that kid could reasonably aspire to attend college and spend adulthood in those people's company."
Well, yeah.
But not terribly relevant to actual children.
You just don't get it, do you, Mr. Marks?
@ryanc86 I don't think bringing this issue up is anything to be ashamed about. I fail to see why people are so obsessed with political correctness when the critical issue facing the US is the improvement of education across the board. That means a meeting of the middle from both policymakers and kids (and their families), in which the former are obligated to pave new educational opportunities and the latter to appreciate and use them to their full advantage. Gene is pointing out a dearth of the latter, and that's something we need to address at many levels. Self-motivation and culture are two contributing factors, as are wealth and safety nets, which are outside the scope of this piece.
I am Asian, and my parents immigrated to this country with literally nothing but the clothes in their backpacks but they worked hard and emphasized the importance of education. For a time when I was young, I attended an all-black elementary school in Brooklyn because that surrounding was where we could afford to live. The moment I stepped into the school I was made fun of and ridiculed with racial epithets by many of the black students there simply for being Asian. And when it came time to study I was one of very FEW kids you'd find in the library. It wasn't a fancy pants library but there were books and resources there the poorest of the poor could use to learn themselves out of poverty. That's where I picked up computer programming books in my spare time. Even though I didn't major in CS in college (you and I share the same alma mater btw), I learned enough before that to pursue software engineering as a full-time career. On my spare time I am developing initiatives to help more poor students take full advantage of some of the resources mentioned in this article (i.e. khanacademy).
Many inner city libraries aren't equipped to accomodate all students in theory but we haven't even reached a point in which they are used to capacity and poor students are fully taking advantage of the status quo. Like I said, it involves a meeting in the middle. I'm sure there are minorities who have the same opinion about this and had they written an identical piece, it wouldn't so harshly criticized. I wonder what Amy Chua has to say about this. Lets get over political correctness and work towards improving children's education.
Parents with high (or at leats some!) expectations is most important. My parents literally did not read a book to me that I can ever recall (my mother agrees), yet I did very well all through school. My mom helped my on a few writing assignments is all (because she had a manual typewriter). I sure do not recall them helping me like we have to do with our kids. My dad grew up a son of a (not so smart) farmer and divorced parents, yet he learned engneering in the Navy and became an engineer.
BUT, I knew my parents expected me to do well in school, and I saw my very smart older sister go to college and struggle one semester, so that made me work even harder I suppose.
Having professed or protested, publicly, your belief, we wouldn't expect that you would now admit that you could be wrong. It's called "commitment" in psychology. Let's be honest, you don't know what it's really like to be poor, you just think you do, and you don't have any real legitimate basis for the belief you hold. This is a common theme observed among the ignorant right; they believe something, therefore it's true. Maybe before coming to believe something it would be wise to do some of the research you suggest to determine what your belief ought to be. It would have a much greater chance of being true and based in reality. In other words, do what you suggest those poor folk do. You obviously didn't.
A kid in poverty can't afford a personal computer but public libraries have plenty of them. Gene himself writes that NONE of what he has suggested is EASY. But one can get started by getting his butt in the library.
"You know, sometimes I'll go to an 8th-grade graduation and there's all that pomp and circumstance and gowns and flowers. And I think to myself, it's just 8th grade … An 8th-grade education doesn't cut it today. Let's give them a handshake and tell them to get their butts back in the library!" – Barack Obama
I agree with many of your points Gene. I am hispanic but I attended a charter school. KIPP and Dave Levin one of the founders of these amazing charter schools was my principal. I worked hard got good grades got accepted to Andover, Choate,Deerfield among other great private boarding schools and into Loyola in NYC among other NY based private school. I decided on a private prep in Pennsylvania and I had a great experience overall. I worked hard and yes I was the girl from the Bronx but I met the right people many 1% who are now some of my closest friends. I do think you generalize a bit because it is not so easy for many people. Those schools do fund but there are other costs that I know many cant't fund and also some people are more disadvantaged than other. Other than that I do agree that opportunities are there but many people just need better support networks and people to care. Also, knowledge is power and I know people who have never heard of prep schools or programs. Overall, you are a brave white man because you know this was a bit controversial but I cant say that your overall message is wrong. I agree like in anything in life you have to work hard and make your own future. regardless of the barriers one faces in life.
what a simpleton. of course he doenst care about your story. he doesnt care about facts or reality. thats how liberals and socialists are. liberalism is his religeon and all he cares about is his ideology. he feels like hes a better person than you cause hell do anything for poor blacks even if it hurts them. its a mental disease of narciccism.
black has nothing to do with it. its about helping the poor unless you are a leftist tool. then its about yourself and you need to yell you wanna help blacks, so people will like you and you can feel better about yourself.
dont have kids out of wedlock. dont have kids when youre not married and dont have a job. dont have a kid before you graduate college and get married and you wont have a POOR BLACK CHILD. but gene wont go there…he likes his ridicluous feelgood puff nonsense.
you can come to this country, be non white, not speak the language, and be a billionaire in youre lifetime. this whole story is a liberal lie, put up for the sole reason that gene marks wants people to like him. what a joke.
Mr. Marks,
To stick by what your wrote, shows you are willfully being intolerant, not to mention showing a disregard to what journalistic practices would really make your argument sound.
1) "If your momma tells you she loves you, check it out". Have you ever checked out your ideas/beliefs with the reality today? Have you ever talked with a poor black child as to why they aren't applying your recipe to success? I don't think so, because if your recipe wouldn't be so pardon the pun, black and white. It would also wouldn't really so heavily on external objects but rather internal characteristics to which really make a person succeed.
2) Why only target poor black kids? Did you realize as you wrote your formula that it comes across as biased, discriminatory and plain flat out bullying? Why target low-income blacks as an example for how anyone without advantages could succeed? Do you think that poor whites,Asians and Hispanic kids know the success?
3)By the time you were 8,9 or 13 how much of the world did you understand? As a former teacher, who is black and comes from a upper middle class background with access to superb education, I taught in low income schools and even abroad. I won't digress in what differences I learned in their schooling vs mine, but one thing I did learn, which made me a far better teacher than any of the education that prepared me to be a teacher, was, they are learning everything for the first time. While I had high expectations for all of my students based on my experiences, I could not disregard their experiences in the learning process. In order to raise the achievement levels of my students, I had to remember and remind myself often that children do not have the same problem solving skills that I have been taught by what ever age they were, nor do they have hindsight that gives them the complex perspective we have as adults.
I hope for the sake of your children's sanity you remember that. If not, expect see them in therapy. A LOT.
While I agree with your solution for how children could set themselves up for success, I hardly doubt children (who are trying to get their days without getting shot at, bullied by classmates and people within their community, deal with poor performing teachers, and school administrators, and all the other stuff that separates their environment from our "Andy Griffin Show"-like environment, are just being lazy.
Why do your article/blog post a service, do a follow up by actually talking to sources to validate your point.
Hi Gene, I believe you are still missing the point that many have made. When you are poor, you are lacking in adequate nutrition and other bare essentials needed in order to live a healthy life. Constantly having to struggle can be a motivation for some, but as a child, this is hard to deal with, when you see your mother or father at their whit's end to make ends meet. This takes an emotional toll on children who then lack the motivation or the will to take advantage of all the things you note. It's hard to study when your stomach is grumbling. It's hard to get adequate sleep when your home is too hot or too cold, because running the furnace or the a/c makes the bills much harder to manage. Not only are children having to do more to take care of themselves, because more than likely, the parents work 2/3 jobs, they also have to take care of their siblings. These children become adults much sooner than other children their age. The fun of childhood gets stripped away because their responsibilities are different. You are expecting a child to not only help their parents with their siblings, but to also juggle school work and trying to go out and find all this technology you talk about? That is a lot of pressure. I think you should run this experiment in your home. Don't buy all the food you normally do for yourself and your children, turn the furnace down to 65 degrees to save on energy bills, stay out late and let your kinds fiend for themselves at night because you're at your "second" job. Strip away all the computers in the house (because not all poor black children have a computer,sorry but those teachers lied to you). Take away the cell phones and other luxury items. After you do that for a few days, I bet you and your family couldn't do it for a week. Your children will be hungry and not care about their school work, they just want a meal or they want the heat to rise a bit so they can at least feel comfortable in the house. You have neglected to put yourself through a situation in which you feel you have the right to speak on. You will never understand what it's like to be black and live as a black person, no matter what someone tells you or what statistics show you. The next article you write should be an apology for your remarks that have been totally and completely offensive and not thought through.
that's rich! "thank you for your comments, based on first-hand experience, but i still stand by my pontifications on a topic from which i am so completely disconnected because this is how i think the world should work."
@imadime, LOVE IT.
If I were an ignorant white guy trying to prove my ill-conceived point, I would learn how to write in proper English without dangling prepositions or fragmented sentences and I'd know when to say "If I were" rather than "If I was."
Dear Mr. Marks,
I am a school teacher who has taught in impoverished areas in the USA, New Zealand, and India. In all these areas, the culture and socio-economic circumstances affecting students are the same: limitations on money and time. Money due to the difficulty of buying a computer and putting food on the table. Time due to the needed after school job that limits the time the students can study.
Please, before you have given a recipe for success, please spend time teaching in these areas you have spoken about for more than three years. Then, and only then, may I start to believe you if you can provide more concrete examples of when your recipe works, more than 5% of the time.
Thank you. Teachers would love to add one to their ranks.
This is not true nor even remotely accurate presently or historically. There are truly interesting conversations happening around this article that should be posted…
wow, Gene, remind me not to hire you as a …. well everything.
Your disconnect with the stark reality poor people live in, is total and complete.
Many comments on this page point why you are dead wrong. It's like you don't hear what people say.
Let's put it like this:
If you were a middle aged, balding white guy, slightly overweight, you might get married to Angelina Jolie (insert favorite celebrity here) and have 10 lovechildren with her, if …. you work hard, get a complete makeover, hair implants, find a movie exec who wants to produce your script, etc. etc.
Yes. That might happen. And you know what?
your chances on this, are 10 times better than your mythical black kid. Even if he makes it, like for example … Obama? He will get discriminated against, lied about, racially abused, just like his under 12 kids … So, why bother?
I'm certainly not the most capable student from the "hood", I have accomplished the following in my life thus far:
- Born and raised as a black kid on the west side of Chicago.
- Was accepted into Whitney Young High School's academic center for gifted 7th and 8th grade students.
- Graduated from high school in my junior year.
- Got a BS in Computer Science from the University of Illinois' college of engineering.
- Am now a senior software engineer at Opower, a startup which is consistently ranked highly amongst startups to keep an eye on by Forbes and other institutions: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/28/most-promising-companies-11_Opower_WWEQ.html
My story is far from unique… I have several friends who have nearly the same background I do, and have achieved far greater levels of success.
I'm not terribly talented, but instead was taught to value hard work and to always put forth my best effort.
The only significant stroke of luck which has factored into my life thus far was to be born to an incredibly caring mom who sacrificed almost any creature comforts for herself (sans the occasional Daniel Steel novel) to be able to afford (both financially and time-wise) to give me every possible opportunity to be successful.
So I respectfully disagree with your assertion that social mobility for black children raised in lower income areas is limited only to the movies. Furthermore, I feel that statement is incredibly harmful for "poor black kids" to read.
Are the odds against them astronomically high? Absolutely. But I feel it is incredibly wrong for us, young black professionals, to say or do anything to discourage them from trying.
Acknowledging that this is an anecdote, I still think this illustrates the need to deconstruct the idea of an archetypal school system. Because that is NOT necessarily the school system available to a poor black kid.
Gene, I think the primary issue (as pointed out by other commenters) is that you seem to believe that poor black kids can be the primary agents of change.
Studying hard is meaningless if the material being taught isn't valuable, or if the curriculum being taught is lacking. Whitney Young had training in computer programming and business software (Word, Excel, etc.) back when my neighborhood school, which my mom taught at, didn't have computers for student use at all.
Applying to the best schools costs a significant amount of money. When your family is at or below the poverty line, test and application fees are far from trivial.
Guidance counselors at low-income schools frequently end up spending a significant amount of their job doing crisis management and social work. Helping elementary students with their academic careers, especially when I have personally seen 800:1 student to counselor ratios at these schools, tends to take a back seat.
The primary agents of change are people like you and I. People who believe that given the proper guidance and resources, poor black kids can be successful. But if one truly believes that, I feel it places the greatest burden on us to provide those things to them… not the children.
no shit, i was in the same place. this fool doesn't know shit. he's a one percenter who needs to shut the fuck up.
Mr. Marks
I am a 21 year college junior, but I am also a poor black girl. I am appalled at this article. To assume that all it takes for anyone to succeed is a little more effort offends me. The fact of the matter is you know of all of the resources that are available because you are a fairly wealthy white man! As a college student I am still unaware of some of the resources you listed, not because I have not done research, not because I have not tried, but simply because growing up in my neighborhood they were not available! To assume that our young black children are stuck in the situations they are in because they do not want to get out is ridiculous! Have you ever gone to bed hungry not because you just didnt feel like it, but because there was no food? Have you ever experienced a home without lights or heat in the dead of winter? I can safely assume that you have not! NOBODY desires to be stuck there! The issue is not that our children do not want to get out, the issue is that the people who have the chance to help them are too busy writing offensive articles!
Incredible. This explains a lot about why things aren't changing – and in fact, are getting worse – for the poor of this country. I read this article with particular interest as I am a graduate of not just one but actually two of the magnet schools mentioned in this article (Masterman for middle, and GHS for high). As a "poor kid" from North Philly, raised by a single teenaged mom, I know I was extremely fortunate to get into those schools. However, I can also tell you that getting into a good magnet school is not the road to easy street. "Getting out" of poverty is not so straightforward as you seem to imply, Mr. Marks. Believe it or not, there are not lots of organizations sitting around anxious to give money to poor kids to go to college. And should us poor kids find our way to college, then what? Read every essay ever written about how to land a job after college, and you will find mountains of advice about taking summer internships, volunteering, working in student government, etc. Except for most poor kids in college, those aren't options. We have to work nights and weekends and every spare minute to support ourselves. You cannot imagine the sacrifice it takes just to purchase the suit necessary to go on interviews.
I am now a teacher in a low-income public school, and your assumptions about what is available to kids in that situation are very, very wrong. Those of you out there who are far removed from poverty and were tending to think Mr. Marks had it right, please, PLEASE listen to me when I tell you that I have experienced, lived in, and now work in poverty every day – and it is NOT the bundle of opportunity Mr. Marks states here. My kids are desperate for computer access. They WANT computers. They don't have them, and their parents don't have them money to buy them- cheap computers are Target? Really? How privileged do you have to be to believe that $400 is no big deal? Our school has some computers – but under NCLB, we test – monthly, quarterly, annually – so much that we have a published schedule every month of who is using the computer room for tests each day. There is no room in the schedule for taking classes to the computer room for instruction. And sure, the local library has TWO computers for the whole community – but since the state budget was slashed, it's only open 4 hours a day 3 days a week – and those are all during school hours.
My kids miss days and days of school because of their TEETH. Their teeth. Parents don't have health insurance because of their low-wage jobs, and the state plan doesn't cover dental unless its emergency. So they don't get to see a dentist until something goes horribly wrong, and then dentists are so overbooked in our rural community that they still have to wait days or weeks to get in. This is a reality of poverty that has nothing to do with willpower or guidance or "sage" advice. This is an interfering factor in education that is a direct result of policies that are in effect because people like you, Mr. Marks, believe that the only "problem" faced by poor kids is that they are "brainless" (?!?!!?) and simply don't know the path out of poverty.
I could go on and on about the barriers my kids face that have nothing to do with their will – the poor nutrition (a direct result of policies which impede access to nutritious foods), the constant moving (because their parents need to take work wherever they can find it), the lack of parental oversight and involvement (because parents work 2 or 3 jobs and aren't allowed time off for parent meetings) – and that's not even getting into the insurmountable challenges our school faces with budget cuts and lack of resources. I entered an English classroom that had NO BOOKS. Mr. Marks, I challenge you to teach children how to use Google Scholar when teachers don't have access to books to teach them how to read. Its not as easy as it sounds, I promise you.
What we need to do, as a country and as individuals, is stop spending so much time asking what the path "out of" poverty is and start asking how we abolish poverty as a reality for millions of Americans. Why, in the richest country in the world, where some individuals can make 12 times the entire budget of our school in a bonus, do we still have a crushing problem of poverty?
Before you cite me as an example of someone who "got out" and made good, please let me point out that I spent over a decade working 2 and sometimes 3 jobs. I waited tables for over 15 years. I didn't graduate from college until I was in my 30s (many semesters and years "off" because I had to work). And I was lucky (!) enough to get into a car accident that left me with a small settlement that helped me support myself while I attended college (still needing to take out bone-crushing debt just for a my state school). Is there any way we can figure out how to solve this problem so kids aren't hoping for lifelong scars that help them get enough money to survive college?
GENE, YOU totally missed the mark and wrote your opinion without any due diligence. You certainly have not put in the leg work to spend time in these environments to grasp the magnitude of the issues. GENE, how many people have YOU helped with these methods? Would YOU dare to write about those who have found successful methods of helping "poor black kids"? No! YOU rather insult those on the front line, as if YOU are the genius and your 2 minute, "simple minded", methods are the missing link! Stop writing about issues and people YOU don't CARE about!
In sticking to what you write, you are merely flaunting that you grew up in a more affluent household than any of the poor children you naively propose you will help with your "advice." I would really like to hear you answer some of the tougher questions: (1) How likely is a kid to persist when they are teased mercilessly about doing well? Many black kids have to face the added burden of being perceived as acting "too white" when they do such things. Further, it was really hard as I became more educated to not feel isolated from my family that neither understood nor always liked my intelligence." (2) What do poor kids in schools with terrible guidance counselors do? How do they get the information they need or the support for that matter? (3) How do kids without regular access to computers with an internet connection use your largely web-based approach to self-improvement? (4) How do kids discover the "right tools" for their own advancement (or how do parents discover them for their kids) with the increasing amount of information and distractions on the web? (5) What if a child has a natural gift for music, art, language, political science, statistics, etc….should they be forced to be your coder just because they are poor and black and you, in your infinite generosity, decided that you are their personal savior? Your hubris is one that many supposedly well-intentioned, well-off people peddle. You think you know what's best, but have you considered how much harder it is to simply live your day-to-day life as a poor person struggling to survive? Have you considered what a great degree of untapped strength and resources that could provide? The real issues, which you completely neglect, are that schools are funded based on income level: wealther districts will generally have better teachers, facilitites, curriculum than poor districts. Tracking, which often codifies for life the socioeconomic inequalities in our society, occurs at a very young age and prevents kids of certain socioeconomic groups from advancing without extra effort. Why should a poor, black kid have to work eight times as hard to accomplish the same thing as your privileged, white children? That you don't see a problem with that is disturbing. That you don't feel the need to qualify or retract any of your bombastic statements shows delusion at best and a thorough lack of intellectual curiosity.
Hi Mr. Marks! I think you have the wrong idea of what it is like to grow up in a poverty stricken environment. When you are a person looking from the outside in, it is easy to say what you would do, but that changes when you are actually in that situation. You stated that the opportunities are there if you " study hard and get good grades, use technology to help them get good grades, apply to the best schools they can, get help from their guidance counselor, and make sure to learn a good skill." but everything isn't as black and white. You are not looking into the gray areas. It is hard for poor black students to make school their first priority when they see their parents struggle to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. Their first priority is to get a job so they can help with the bills and make sure their family has a place to sleep. It is hard living in poverty stricken places and having school as a priority, because people there face the problem of having to deal with crime, and violence that occurs in those types of neighborhoods. So their next priority is to stay alive, and to keep their mom and younger siblings safe when they walk out of the door every day.
Do you really think it would be that easy to study and get good grade when everything around you is a distraction. When you live in apartment with walls so thin you could hear everything going on in the next rooms, I think you won't be able to focus. And do you think you can go to a library that is far away from where you live every day to do homework and study because, libraries are not found in your neighborhood, while you try to work and help put food on the table. And like one person mentioned do you really think people are going to spend their money on computers when they don't even have light, running water or heat in their houses. I don't think a computer is a priority in that instance. And I'm sure you know this but ill mention it anyway, applying to schools also cost money that poor black kids don't have.
And think about the quality of schools these poor black kids are going to. They have a lack of good books needed to prepare for upper level classes, or SAT's. They have over crowded classes which make it hard for them to get the help needed to succeed in the class. And now school are facing budget cut which make it even harder because now they have the lack of teachers. You have teachers who went to school to teach one thing, stepping in to teach another subject because the school had to let some teachers go. I can go on and on about the education system, which all points back to the fact that getting good grade and applying to the best schools don't always work out. It's not that simple.
Another thing you overlooked is the fact that many of these poor black kids don't have access to much information about scholarships, and programs geared to help people in their condition. I don't believe it is a problem of them not using their resources but, them not knowing the resources are there.
In middle class neighborhoods you have total access to information about these kinds of things. You can pay people to tutor your kids with their SAT's and ACT's. You can afford to enroll them in these programs like Kaplan, and AList. The schools in your neighborhoods have classes dedicated to college and career readiness, which teaches your kids about all of the opportunities out there. Schools in poor neighborhoods don't have those classes, and they usually make up for this with after school programs.
Poor black kids are usually forced to rely on after school programs to let them know about, fee waivers and how to access them. They rely on after school programs to give them access to computers and books, they rely on after school programs to give them classes to help them with college and career readiness skills. They also rely on after school programs to keep them off of the street, and to keep them productive. But of course even those after school programs are being cut, due to budget cuts so kids are no longer aware of those many opportunities.
In conclusion, what you said is true, it is possible for poor black student to succeed, but it takes a lot more than what you included in your recipe for success. It take people who have the skills and resources, people like you and I to go and show these kids the way to success by letting them know that there are other opportunities. And when we tell them about those opportunities, we have to help them get access to the resources they need to get the opportunities. And I believe you had good intentions when writing this article but all I ask is that you take into account all factors before writing. I ask you to put yourself in their shoes first before you say what you would do if you were in their shoes. Then you could see that it is easier said than done!
Well, sir, people with such blatantly problematic solutions to major social issues like inequality rarely cling so firmly to their warped beliefs unless they really think they're true. I'm surprised you think you're right.
I don't even know where to begin in response to your article; nearly every point you made is either flawed, simplistic, or both. You're right: ignorance is devastating to our world, but inequality is just as real and just as damaging to those that are affected negatively by it. Race and class not only exist, but have been proven to predetermine one's life chances with startling accuracy (especially class, as most people born into the lower class die in the lower class). Believe it or not, the very title of your article is racially antagonizing, as it suggests that poor black children must not only act in the way that you prescribe, but possess certain qualities that lead them to classes in computer science. What does that say about lower class black children (such as myself) who are interested in the humanities? Does that not make us smart enough to succeed? From what I gathered, this is exactly what you were saying.
Not that my personal experience alone trumps your views, but as a poor black student who attended the best high school in the area and now attends one of the best universities in the world, I must say that it takes a tremendous amount of luck for some people to succeed. I was lucky to live in a northeastern city with lots of good schools around and people who encouraged me to do well. Needless to say, this is not very common. Despite my intelligence, I myself had a guidance counselor who told me not to apply to Ivy League Schools and to consider going to trade school because I was poor. And I faced difficulty getting sufficient help from other adults because of their expectations of me as a black person.
It is possible that you thought you were helping by writing this article, but you didn't. I suggest that next time you feel the need to propose solutions to inequality, do some research first.
Ryan, I am sorry but the problem is not that there are not enough computers in the library. The problem is that the poor people that go to the library to use the computer aren't looking for the things mentioned in this post. The problem is that education is not that important anymore, and many give up, accepting their role at the bottom of the society when there are many people that want to help. Read more in my reply to the comment above, to upgradeddiddy
Regardless of what Gene Marks knows about poor people, the truth is that a lot of what he said is correct. And upgradediddy, it is completely false and unproductive to say that private schools would not accept a student from a poor neighborhood, or "the ghetto." I am an African American at Columbia University, the son of 2 African immigrants, who grew up poor in PG County in Maryland, outside of DC. This is not the worst part in America, but i attended boarding school with poor students from Trenton, Newark, Baltimore, DC, Harlem, Philadelphia, Asbury Park, and many more places. The school was a boarding school called Peddie, a very expensive school, but they give so much money in financial aid that I went to school almost for free. Many of the students from the cities I mentioned had witnessed deaths before their eyes, or lived around drugs, or had seen guns first hand, owned by their friends. But minorities have an advantage in that these predominantly white schools don't want to be predominantly white, they want to be diverse. But the problem is, not enough minority students try to go to these schools. Many will pay for you to go for free, if you just apply. But most do not. There is a lack of information out there, and if it wasn't for PROJECT MATCH, based in DC for minority students, I would never have known of such opportunities. The only reason I am able to go to Columbia University is because I went to boarding school. They guide you the entire way. I went to Fay School from 7th to 9th, and then Peddie until 12th. It was a blessing. This man is trying to share such opportunites with others, instead of condemning him or trying to look for ignorance or racism, just go and share what you've learned with those around you who might be serious about their education as well. So many people want to give money to poor students, but they are too lazy to go out and find them. So we must take the initiative ourselves, and find them. That's all I have to say.
Ryanc86, I agree with you completely.
GeneMarks, of course that is what you would do- what most adults who grew up in a middle class family would do if they were thrown into a poor family/neighborhood and had all the given knowledge, ease and likely abudant love of growing up in a middle class family.
You cannot look back with an adult's frame of mind after being raised in a white middle class family and accurately or fairly say what you would do as a poor black child- it's impossible for you to know or understand what it would be like. It is naive at best and ignorant at worst. Sadly, many kids from low-income families deal with much worse things than low-quality schools. Many of these kids are fighting only to survive. How can a child seek out things they don't even know are available when they don't have the safety and security that you enjoyed growing up? If you want to help these kids fight to succeed, you should donate your time to mentoring.
Are you saying that, if Mr. Marks had the resources, people to show him how to make it, and enough drive, he would not be able to build a "moon rocket", whatever that is? Or are you one of those that thinks, because only certain people do something, everyone else cannot do it? Poor students with that attitude have already lost. Thank goodness I didn't have parents to teach me that kind of attitude
Hi Mr. Marks! I think you have the wrong idea of what it is like to grow up in a poverty stricken environment. When you are a person looking from the outside in, it is easy to say what you would do, but that changes when you are actually in that situation. You stated that the opportunities are there if you " study hard and get good grades, use technology to help them get good grades, apply to the best schools they can, get help from their guidance counselor, and make sure to learn a good skill." but everything isn't as black and white. You are not looking into the gray areas. It is hard for poor black students to make school their first priority when they see their parents struggle to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. Their first priority is to get a job so they can help with the bills and make sure their family has a place to sleep. It is hard living in poverty stricken places and having school as a priority, because people there face the problem of having to deal with crime, and violence that occurs in those types of neighborhoods. So their next priority is to stay alive, and to keep their mom and younger siblings safe when they walk out of the door every day.
Do you really think it would be that easy to study and get good grade when everything around you is a distraction. When you live in apartment with walls so thin you could hear everything going on in the next rooms, I think you won't be able to focus. And do you think you can go to a library that is far away from where you live every day to do homework and study because, libraries are not found in your neighborhood, while you try to work and help put food on the table. And like one person mentioned do you really think people are going to spend their money on computers when they don't even have light, running water or heat in their houses. I don't think a computer is a priority in that instance. And I'm sure you know this but ill mention it anyway, applying to schools also cost money that poor black kids don't have.
And think about the quality of schools these poor black kids are going to. They have a lack of good books needed to prepare for upper level classes, or SAT's. They have over crowded classes which make it hard for them to get the help needed to succeed in the class. And now school are facing budget cut which make it even harder because now they have the lack of teachers. You have teachers who went to school to teach one thing, stepping in to teach another subject because the school had to let some teachers go. I can go on and on about the education system, which all points back to the fact that getting good grade and applying to the best schools don't always work out. It's not that simple.
Another thing you overlooked is the fact that many of these poor black kids don't have access to much information about scholarships, and programs geared to help people in their condition. I don't believe it is a problem of them not using their resources but, them not knowing the resources are there.
In middle class neighborhoods you have total access to information about these kinds of things. You can pay people to tutor your kids with their SAT's and ACT's. You can afford to enroll them in these programs like Kaplan, and AList. The schools in your neighborhoods have classes dedicated to college and career readiness, which teaches your kids about all of the opportunities out there. Schools in poor neighborhoods don't have those classes, and they usually make up for this with after school programs.
Poor black kids are usually forced to rely on after school programs to let them know about, fee waivers and how to access them. They rely on after school programs to give them access to computers and books, they rely on after school programs to give them classes to help them with college and career readiness skills. They also rely on after school programs to keep them off of the street, and to keep them productive. But of course even those after school programs are being cut, due to budget cuts so kids are no longer aware of those many opportunities.
In conclusion, what you said is true, it is possible for poor black student to succeed, but it takes a lot more than what you included in your recipe for success. It take people who have the skills and resources, people like you and I to go and show these kids the way to success by letting them know that there are other opportunities. And when we tell them about those opportunities, we have to help them get access to the resources they need to get the opportunities. And I believe you had good intentions when writing this article but all I ask is that you take into account all factors before writing. I ask you to put yourself in their shoes first before you say what you would do if you were in their shoes. Then you could see that it is easier said than done!
I published this comment before without adding my credentials, so here they are: I am a black student who recently graduated from a school like the one I mentioned in my comment. I know I probably would have made it this far, to an Ivy League University, without the help of others which is how I am able to speak about what I feel is missing from your recipe of success. Determination, hard work, is definitely necessary, but it takes a lot more than that!
If I Were a Ignorant Middle Class White Man
by Briana Ohene on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 2:53pm
I recently read a post one of my friends had on their feed:
"If I Were A Poor Black Kid"
First of all, let's just start with the damn title, "IF I WERE A POOR BLACK KID", I knew the article was going to be some bullshit based on the title this man chose to use. The title is insensitive and shows absolute disrespect for black people and their struggle.
Gene Marks: "My kids are no smarter than similar kids their age from the inner city. My kids have it much easier than their counterparts from West Philadelphia. The world is not fair to those kids mainly because they had the misfortune of being born two miles away into a more difficult part of the world and with a skin color that makes realizing the opportunities that the President spoke about that much harder. This is a fact. In 2011."
Why is it necessary to state that your children are no smarter than kids their age from the "inner-city". Of course they are not smarter! They are more privileged than their counterparts!
Gene Marks: I am not a poor black kid. I am a middle aged white guy who comes from a middle class white background. So life was easier for me. But that doesn't mean that the prospects are impossible for those kids from the inner city. It doesn't mean that there are no opportunities for them.
Ummmm yes you are right you are NOT a poor black kid, and life was easier for you so how can you state that these "inner-city" kids have these so-called opportunities if you are not a poor black kid to even experience what opportunities may be available to them?? This is a contradiction..
Gene Marks: I believe that everyone in this country has a chance to succeed. Still. In 2011. Even a poor black kid in West Philadelphia.
Once again, If you are not a poor black kid and have not had the experiences of a poor black kid. How can you say that EVERYONE in this country has a chance to succeed? Let's evaluate why this statement is bullshit and in fact a privileged statement. For one, this country was built off of free labor, free labor that black people have never benefitted from. Who benefitted from this free labor?? For generations whites have had the upperhand because of the money inherited and passed on for generations..FREE $$ Black people on the other hand have had to work very hard for pennies to maintain family households with BOTH parents working and sometimes the children. To save any money to be passed down to their descendants would be impossible, instead the descendants are left with nothing at all or debt. This is why 40acres and a mule/reparations has been an ongoing controversial topic for years. Systemically black people are at a disadvantage.
Gene Marks: It takes brains. It takes hard work. It takes a little luck. And a little help from others. It takes the ability and the know-how to use the resources that are available. Like technology. As a person who sells and has worked with technology all my life I also know this.
Really? And how do people know about these resources? You say you're speaking from the standpoint of being a poor black kid. If you were a poor black kid whose parents were not aware of these resources and the technology how do you expect the kid to know about the resources? From the barely-funded puiblic school they go to? Where teachers are trained to discipline students and not teach, where kids tend to focus more on their empty bellies than their academics because they cannot focus?, where there are 35-40 students crunched in one classroom with barely enough seats, desks or updated textbooks to go around? where teachers are underpaid and fed up? In this day when public libraries are being closed; how do these kids get the information to even know what available resources out there when they are not being told? How would they know where to look what sites to go to? Is this something that a white kid from a middle class family has to worry about? How do they get their information?
Gene Marks: If I was a poor black kid I would first and most importantly work to make sure I got the best grades possible. I would make it my #1 priority to be able to read sufficiently. I wouldn't care if I was a student at the worst public middle school in the worst inner city. Even the worst have their best. And the very best students, even at the worst schools, have more opportunities. Getting good grades is the key to having more options. With good grades you can choose different, better paths. If you do poorly in school, particularly in a lousy school, you're severely limiting the limited opportunities you have.
Yes, I agree with hard work and the best grades one may have some open doors for them to succeed and advance. But what about the poor black kid who was never given the proper education due to the lack of resources? What about the poor black kid who cannot focus in school because there is a fight in ther class everyday? or the kid who cannot complete their homework because they have to work nights, or help their parents at night with siblings so that they can work? or what about the kid who is automatically told they are a behavior issue and shipped off to "special ed" classes or told they have a learning disability because they view numbers and words differently from their counterparts? It is absolutely true with hard work and the grades it opens up opportunities. But what does it take for the kid to be able to focus on there grades and not be hungry, or to focus on grade and not worry about being attacked in their neighborhood because everyone around them is struggling to make it as well? How can we make it so that it is easy for them to focus on grades and how can we help them get these grades?
Gene Marks: And I would use the technology available to me as a student. I know a few school teachers and they tell me that many inner city parents usually have or can afford cheap computers and internet service nowadays. That because (and sadly) it's oftentimes a necessary thing to keep their kids safe at home then on the streets. And libraries and schools have computers available too. Computers can be purchased cheaply at outlets like TigerDirect and Dell's Outlet. Professional organizations like accountants and architects often offer used computers from their members, sometimes at no cost at all.
Again, people do not get information like this out of the sky. We are told these things we are educated on what resources are out there. Are you going into these inner cities with your "I know technology" shit and educating familes and schools on these resources and websites? And white middle class man of course it would be easy to say there are sites where you can get computers cheap but what is cheap to you is not cheap to the average poor black kid or parent who is struggling. If i had to choose between a "cheap" 100$ computer or paying rent/putting food on my families table what do you think I would choose?
I think if I were a Ignorant White Middle Class man I would think it was that simple too. If I were a Ignorant Middle Class White Man I would read up on black politics and the social/racial/economical injustices to get a better understanding of why this poor black kid is not afforded certain opportunities. I would read books like Pedagogy of the Oppressed, Race Matters or Frantz Fanon's The Psychology of Oppression. I would also read books by other white middle class people like Peggy McIntosh's White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack. I would go into the communities and talk to the people and hear and understand what they are trying to say. I would go into the black communities and observe the conditions of the poor and go back to my community and observe some more and come to some understandings as to why both neighborhoods are so different. I would research systemic racism/oppression and environmental racism to getmore of an understanding of why things are the way they are. I would look at capitalism and its affects…but most of all I would take off those fuckin rose- colored glasses and check my privilege.
-Advocate for the Black Poor Kid
For apart from inquiry, apart from the praxis, individuals cannot be truly human. Knowledge emerges only through invention and re-invention, through the restless, impatient, continuing, hopeful inquiry human beings pursue in the world, with the world, and with each other.
-Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed
There is, in fact, no teaching without learning. One requires the other.
-Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of Freedom
Having been an inner city school teacher, let me just reiterate some of the comments that people from inner city upbringings have mentioned:
1. Computers are not this dime a dozen item that you seem to believe. I had few students with computers at home, and fewer with internet. I spent a lot of time with my kids after school, and never remember a single one mentioning any of the websites you named, except Wikipedia. On top of that, I can name few teachers who were familiar with those sites – so who would tell the kids?
2. Do you expect six year olds to teach themselves to read? 68% of inner city 4th graders are behind in reading. Its a tricky skill to teach oneself. Especially if you don't have books at home and your parents don't want you walking around your neighborhood to and from libraries by yourself when you're 7 and they're at work. By the time you're old enough to have independently figured out how important these skills are, you're going to be extraordinarily behind. Which won't help you get into private or magnet schools.
3. Guidance counselors. Some are great. Many are not. At the first school where I taught, the college counselor did not tell any students (in honors classes or otherwise) when the PSAT would be offered until 2 days before test day. She was a very nice lady – but I never found her to be the most helpful for students.
I'm sure you were well-intentioned in writing this article. But you seem to have missed that kids often are not learning the basics. Its really hard to study effectively if you can't read See Spot Run – doubly hard to teach oneself to code in that case. Add in all the other basic skills (I had kindergarten teachers regularly tell me about the amount of time they spent just teaching kids to hold pencils) kids often need just to be able to meaningfully work hard – and I assure you, most kids just don't have the resources to get where you think they "can."
Its only 2 miles to the "poor black kids"? I'd encourage you to spend the 60 cents on gas and do a little more research before your next article.
Thank you for exhibiting a propensity to remain adamant it the face of overwhelming odds.
It assures me that my original assessment was correct and gives me further reason to shun any other articles that you may present for our reading pleasure.
Ryan – well put. I'm thankful to see that your life experience has helped you to see that living isn't as black and white as those who don't know poverty think it is.
Here's the thing. You are not a poor black kid, and have never been a poor black kid, and you thus have no idea what you would do if you were in the position of a poor black kid. You simply cannot conceive of the day to day issues that come along with being poor and black in America today. You mentioned "getting help from their guidance counselor", but this makes an assumption that there are guidance counselors whose case loads are not so large that they simply cannot focus on improving student lives. You mention, "[using] technology to help them get good grades], but key to this is a basic understanding of computers, much of which is gained in computer classes at schools. If you are a truly POOR black kid, you don't go to a school with the resources to provide you with this knowledge. I don't feel it necessary to go into any more of the specifics of your argument because its premise is innately flawed. You will never and have never, had the experience of a poor black kid. Your argument is based in some fictional perception of what their lives are like. But that's all it is; fiction.
home run! you can be on my team any day of the week. well said.
Gene, I'm sorry you are dead wrong. I grew up "humble", well more than "humble." The opportunity may be there for people but networking is done at the highest echelons – I'm sure your buddies from Lehigh U and University College of London are a wee bit more networked than someone from a Community College.
It's incredibly naive of you to throw out names of sites/social media tools/and online media to educate as a solution. Most of these kids are lucky if they get enough foundational education much less assume they have the time (and foundational knowledge) to absorb all of this.
Now if YOU said, "I am writing this from the perspective of someone who knows this is possible because I spend my weekends in West Philadelphia exposing children to these types of educational tools." I'd have more respect for you.
I can't even believe Forbes published this. BOO on them!
Boo on you and Forbes. I can't believe they published your article.
You're incredibly naive if you actually think you suggesting these solutions will work. If you said in your article "I spend my weekends working in West Philadelphia exposing children to this, and it's working" then I'd have a modicum of respect for you.
Networking (what you call LUCK) happens at the highest echelons. You should know this first-hand since I can only assume that more networking happens through your Lehigh and U of London contacts than any community college could have given you. (If you had gone that route.)
I grew up in a very humble environment. I didn't have time (and wouldn't have time today) to do all of the things you suggested because I was busy working nearly fulltime plus school since I was 14. You see, we didn't have money for me to even have clothes or modest spending money. While your suggestions might work in some sort of utopian world – they are simply not implementable.
I CHALLENGE YOU to give 100 hours in the next 6 months to educate children in these schools in West Philly on all of your suggestions. Keep me posted! Forbes has my email address. I live close by and will take you out for coffee at Marathon (1818) in June.
Best of luck!
Jenny Simon
Gene, you admit having no concept of what it means to be poor let alone a black kid so, your suggestions fail to coincide with the day to day realities of what it really means to be black & poor in America. SKYPE? Are you kidding me? How many poor households have access to a computer? Are you aware of how poverty affects one's aptitude for learning? As a fellow journalist, I find your article written without thorough research and very much condescending. I guess long time education activist Marian Wright Edelman has been wrong all these decades about educating the underserved…"The inability to get health care because people lack insurance, kills, less traumatically, and less visibly than terrorism, but the result is the same. And poor housing and poor education and low wages kills the spirit and the capacity and the quality of life that all of us deserve."
Rose Scott
Mr. Marks,
Having been raised by a single mom AND spending five years in public education as a teacher, I find your lack of insight appalling. Spend some time in the classroom, get some "real" black friends and THEN advise. I did not have two parents, I did not have guidance counselors who cared about me. I was raised in a poor neighborhood. I DID go onto earn two bachelor degrees and a master's degree.
Angry white mom in Cali (That's California)
While you're making all of these obviously ethnocentric arguments predicated primarily on the assumption that the tech is even available to the student, perhaps you could have taken time in your education to realize that it should be "If I WERE a poor black kid……" Obviously the person that edited your title realized it, even if you as the author didn't. I doubt this will make it to being "called out" but maybe, physician, you could heal thyself before giving advice to groups about whose situation you know nothing.
Mr. Marks,
You seem very sure of your arguments. I imagine you have some evidence to support them, but since you are so certain of this, I would like to challenge you to prove your statements.
There is, unfortunately, no way for you to become a poor black kid. But, you can very easily find many kids who fit your description (you can hardly argue that there are NO "poor black kids who study hard". Lets say, for arguments sake, that these kids want very much to succeed, but haven't heard your advice yet. I challenge you to find one poor black kid, offer him this advice, and see if it works. To make things easier, you can even find one who is particularly promising in terms of intelligence and work ethic and even continue to offer him guidance and support along the way. If your theory is correct, he or she should succeed without fail. This does not need to be a hypothetical scenario; You can simply go to your local chapter of Big Brother Big Sister, fill out an application, and be matched with a promising young student who is seeking mentorship and guidance.
And if, by some poor turns of fate, you cannot find a suitable person, you could even try this experiment on yourself. Try, for a month, to live like a poor high school student without Internet access, health care, a permanent home, or regular food. Try in that time to continue to make sure all your daily responsibilities are fulfilled, that your bills are paid, and be sure to study for and take a standardized test, fill out thorough and well-written college applications, and don't, under any circumstances, forget to file your FAFSA.
I and the rest of your readers will be interested to know the results.
The utter claptrap written in the article is almost too simplistic and completely wrong to reply to. But I felt compelled to make a few brief statements. Firstly, Gene Marks you have not a single clue what you would do as a poor black child ( or a poor child of any "race"). To attempt to project yourself in such a role is pure fantasy.
But let's examine a few facts. I'm quite certain that you're aware of the systemic and physiological changes that manifest in the human mind in the first 2-5 years of life. Changes that profoundly shape a person's entire life.
Proper nutrition and learning stimuli actually arrange synaptic paths and patterns that determine learning ability. But since poor children have access to nutritious sustenance and and loving resource filled homes I guess that isn't a factor.
There are so many factors that keep the cycle of poverty going that it sickens me to hear some pasty faced privileged twit, no matter how well intentioned spew this pablum as if it were an actual aid to solving the myriad problems our nation is facing. In short you have absolutely NO clue what you would do if you were born into systemic poverty with no safety net. To assume you do smacks not only of bald ignorance but hubris as well.
Mr. Marks,
I'm very disappointed in this article. Before I go on to tell you why let me tell you that I'm a black lower middle class female, in college, from Philadelphia and I am alumna of Central (one of the magnets you mentioned). I'm disappointed at the fact that you believe that being successful is as easy as good grades and technology. There are a few flaws in your thinking. 1) How does the poor black kid know he wants to be successful? I mean most of the peers I grew up with didn't know they wanted to succeed unless their parents or whatever family member raising them cared enough to tell them how important succeeding is practically all the time. 2) Have you seen technology in Philly? with libraries closing permanently in some places and with the school district being so broke, poor schools don't stand a chance. The thing about the magnet schools, or at least Central is that they aren't completely dependent on school district funding because they have alumni who give back. Also most of the kids who get get good grades in the worse off school end up at college for maybe a semester or 2 and then drop out because the high school they went to did not adequately prepare them for college. I mean this poor black kid you're imagining is a miracle story. It would be very hard for a child to accomplish so much without help from family and community, after all it takes a village to raise a child. Plus this technology bit is very far-fetched I mean I knew kids in my high school who only got to use the internet when they came to school and since there isn't a computer for every single student even in central it makes it more likely that there are even less computers in other schools that are not of the same caliber. I understand you're heart may be in the right place but as one student who got very lucky (my mom cared enough about my education to have me bused out to the white schools in northeast philly for elementary and middle school so that I had the opportunity to go to a school like central) I just feel that your answer is too general and with that said I think you're either really naive or you don't really care about the poor black kids.
Gene, your assumption that "opportunity is there if they study hard and ged good grades" is so, so simplified. You completely have no idea what it's like to worry about daily safety, to deal with challenging (to say the least) domestic situations, to not *have* good leaders in your life to provide the guidance that you assume the "poor black kid" would have the common sense to possess or have access to – you just really have no idea.
If you want to deal w/ a 1% metaphor, put it this way: it's not about what to do when you're in the cocktail party – it's about knowing who to befriend, how to speak their language, what to do when you get there, how to integrate…good lord. Gene, I trust you don't mean anything malicious but your article illustrates exactly why none of the well-intentioned but incredibly wrong policies are NOT working and how this widening gulf between the reality of the "American dream" of a stable middle-class life and its attainability is beyond most peoples' grasps – even those who have studied hard and gotten good grades.
Please – for the good of all, please rethink your words, and carefully reconsider pitching ANY article positing "if I were"…because you're not. And you don't get it. Not until you have walked a day in the "other's" life.
Perhaps it is not what you intended, but this reply to someone who has firsthand experience to what you only imagine seems somewhat arrogant. If you do happen to find that magical student you desire (and they do exist) who is also lucky enough to get the right push, I think you will find that they will have no interest in working for business owners like you. They have already demonstrated a drive to succeed that would likely not be satisfied by settling for working for you.
Is this a serious comment? I'm actually laughing right now. This is the worst analogy I've heard in a long time, and it's even more amusing when -every- sentence sounds like it's being yelled with great enthusiasm. ("!!!")
At least Gene Marks can rest assured that he has equally-incompetent supporters.
As a black woman, I agree with most everything you wrote BUT the fallacy is you believe that somehow this is a "poor Black" problem instead that plagues ALL races with limited resources and knowledge! "Society" (White Upper Class men) has a tendency to overlook the hordes and hordes of poor people who are NOT Black!
I'm a 25 year old mixed kid from Oregon, who's currently working through Level 2 of the PGA. I taught myself to read at the age of two, attended a private college on an academic scholarship, and am currently trying to make it in America. Your article is annoying because you act as if going to a good college is the be all and end all. Most kids in school are idiots, cheating and lying to professors just to get the degree. That being said, the golf industry in this country is a mess, and no matter how intelligent I may be, the money is still not there. I am currently designing a web page for a top 100 instructor, for free to build a portfolio, but there are so many other issues that go into life after college. Why do you have to say "poor black kid?" Why not mexican, asian, filipino or jewish? Why is it ALWAYS black and white. Because you're simple minded, and because your readers can understand this. Btw I loved Obama's speech.
I think this article is great for a middle-class black or any other race kid who didn't want to go into the class of the poor black kid. One thing that I think is important to remember is that any kid has to have basic need met in order to have a good learning environment. To be safe. How many poor black kids do you know that are in a safe neighborhood or in a safe school or that are not pressured to be in a gang. Oh thats right! You don't know what it's like to be poor or black and probably forgot what it's like to be a kid.
I disagree. The technology you speak of can take a child 3 steps forward, but their environment can take them five steps back
Mr. Marks,
Your right and your wrong in your assessment of a poor black kids capabilities to "succeed" in life.
First, I applaud you acknowledging the role that race and poverty have in preventing individuals from "bootstrapping " their way into the mainstream ranks of the middle class.
You seem to have with the right attitude and have not simply dismissed the travails of the impoverished as a condition brought upon by their own " vices".
Your also right that there are tons of opportunities to receive the academic tools that will help one get through school and acquire that coveted career that "we all want".
However, where you went is explained by your iniatial paragraph where you admit that you are not a "poor, black kid". your not, and given that one's mindset is conditioned by our environments and don't quite understand why these kids don't always take advantage of these opportunities(assuming they know they are present and accessible)
However, I'll give you an analogue that might help you realize the problem.
There are numerous sources of information concerning health available to the average man. Every major urban area has an abundance of health facilities accessible to a healthy man with funds. Yet, many men do no regularly go to the clinic/hospital/ health facility even when something is terribly wrong with them. Why is that? Well, the answer can't be explained by reference to accessibility and availability of health resources. They might as well be invisible for many men.
In a nutshell, many poor black kids(and white and Latino) have a completely different understanding of success from you and I and for them, aspiring to go to college is something OTHER people do, people from another world, time and place. It's truly a foreign idea for some.
Mr. Marks,
Your right and your wrong in your assessment of a poor black kids capabilities to "succeed" in life.
First, I applaud you for acknowledging the roles race and poverty have in preventing individuals from "bootstrapping " their way into the mainstream ranks of the middle class.
You seem to have the right attitude and have not simply dismissed the travails of the impoverished as a condition brought upon by their own " vices".
You're also right that there are tons of opportunities to acquire the academic tools that will help one get through school and acquire that coveted career that "we all want", they are assume to much the availability of these resources to many poor, black kids.
However, you are also in error. The root of your error was addressed in your first paragraph where you admit that you are not a "poor, black kid". your not, but you've erroneously put yourself in the shoes of a poor,black kid WHILE retaining your mindset as an educated, driven member of the middle-class.Given that one's mindset is conditioned by our environments you don't quite understand why these kids don't always take advantage of these opportunities(assuming they know they are present and accessible)
However, I'll give you an analogue that might help you realize the problem.
There are numerous sources of information concerning health available to the average man. Every major urban area has an abundance of health facilities accessible to a healthy man with the proper funds. Yet, many men do no regularly go to the clinic/hospital/ health facility even when something is terribly wrong with them. Why is that? Well, the answer can't be explained by reference to accessibility and availability of health resources. They might as well be invisible for many men.
In a nutshell, many poor black kids(and white and Latino) have a completely different understanding of success from you and I and for them, aspiring to go to college is something OTHER people do, people from another world, time and place. It's truly a foreign idea for some.
For this mindset to change poor, black kids need radically new models upon which to base personal identity and from which to internalize a new model of personal achievement, not simply libraries, magnet schools and advanced technology(all that helps as well) They also need help to cultivate habits for academic achievement. Many value school but have not developed the habits of reading and studying needed to do well. Many have parent(s) who care about their child's education but are poorly educated and/or work, often relying on relatives or older children to babysit and thus not always available to monitor their child's activities. When you compare how many hours a day poor black kids dedicate to homework against other groups they fare poorly. They often end up spending a lot of time socializing with peers, many of whom do not provide good models for academic achievement, and thus, while social and even certain creative verbal skills are refined and well-developed(this includes oral verbal skills) their literacy suffers significantly. I could go on an don't but I'll emphasize that it's just not about access to and availability of resources for academic success nor is it necessarily about an "oppositional" attitude towards school. It's about priorities and where one see's oneself in the larger social schema.
I challenge you to teach at a school you describe, "I wouldn't care if I was a student at the worst public middle school in the worst inner city", and see if that changes your perspective. I've spend the last 3 years of my life teaching at a school that has been described as such. Having technology in the home is something that's rare. Only my most privileged students have access to technology in their home. A more common reality is homelessness, only eating breakfasts and lunches given to them at school, and a constant struggle to survive in the midst of poverty and violence.
Yes, the opportunity is there. Where you went tragically wrong is to assume that everyone has the same opportunity to take advantage of that opportunity. Read what ryan said again. They don't, and it's not their fault that they don't.
sad to see that this is really nothing more than a perspective written from a white man's view. This is an inappropriate article as this is amongst the worst form of race-baiting when performed. Think of the historical context:
1) Whites have been giving the Indians advice – we wiped them out
2) Whites gave the African Americans advice – and lynched, robbed and did everything we could to keep them down for centuries
3) We give people of any culture advice without once having enough simple courtesy to look into the mirror and realize the simplest of facts:
We've done a lot of harm in the name of giving advice to others.
That's why I refute such articles based upon the premise that you simply are not qualified to give advice because you are not a member of the population to whom you speak. The article, no matter what motivates you, comes off as arrogance to the audience you claim to be writing this to.
If you reall y want to reach someone, stop writing advice articles and start volunteering. Actions will speak 1000x louder than articles. Volunteer and help someone grow up under better circumstances – be a Big Brother, be a role model, help mentor a child, feed a family, volunteer to help the homeless, use your knowledge to do something that makes a difference instead of writing from behind a console.
That will be a million times more positive than any article and you know it.
However, it would also require you not to site there and pontificate so easily as well.
Have a nice day. Do volunteer and make a difference instead. It's better than merely writing articles and might give you a taste of real life for a change.
Having conviction around an idea is good…when backed with action. Otherwise its drivel.
Please forgive me if you are in fact taking your views to "Poor Black Kids" in a medium they have access to, e.g. the streets, but trolling in a business magazine read by everyone but poor black kids is drivel.
Your better than that Mr. Marks. Pick up you 3G wireless laptop, put on you best kicks and hit the streets where these kids are. No, Skype can't help you here!
Mr. Marks your ignorance and blindness to reality has prevented you from seeing that you are saying these things because you are a white guy in white guy shoes, not a poor black kid in a poor black kid's shoes. While the advice you give is the right advice, you write it in a "these poor black kids should know better" voice. You fail to acknowledge that these poor black kids, are like any other kids, influenced to think what they think and lack the thoughts they should be thinking because of their own circumstances and surroundings, those of which you've never went through, and not because they some how need to stop apposing your non new advice. Now my advice to you is to put your self in peoples shoes before standing on top of the hill and giving advice while pointing with your index. That being said, understand that not every shoe can be worn for the purpose of trying it out to give advice.
Yes, you would stick by what you wrote… Unfortunatley, because you are not and never will be a "poor black kid" you haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about. This article is an embarrassment to you and offensive to me.
I am an African-American female, who fortuntaley was born into a middle-class background. I did not face the majority of the hardships children born in less favorable circumstances faced. My grandparents raised me; encouraged me; loved me; and provided the best opportunities that they could for me (to include sending me to private schools).
Children need that support system. That is why they are called children. A child does not inherently know what they need to be successful. How many of these children you speak do you think will be afforded the opportunity to read your article? Or even their parent(s) for that matter? Get a grip, a clue, whatever it is you need to discontinue making blanking statements about a matter you have no idea about. None. Better yet, get up off of your seat of do nothing and donate your time and money to helping these children acquire these tools that you deem so easily accessibly in their lives, homes and neighborhoods. Your words mean absolutely nothing, but your time and money can mean a great deal.
You would. You also have absolutely no idea.
Saying opportunity is there for anyone IF they study hard is like saying anyone can be a billionaire IF they have lots of money. That's great, but both statements operate on an invalid assumption. For poor children, deciding to study hard isn't any more of an option than just deciding to have more money. You can't read at night if your parents can't afford to pay the electric bill. And you can't keep studying if you need a job to survive.
And I did not by any means grow up poor. My parents gave me every opportunity possible. So I am frankly confused as to how, if I can figure this out, you can be so blatantly ignorant.
Do you have children? I propose an experiment: Send them to live with a mom living in that neighborhood two miles from you for a year. No help from you. Let her children stay with you. See how well they each do. Sound like a good idea? If not, then deep down, you know your article here is wrong.
Enter Your Comment
Hey now, don't assign to all white people the opinions of this idiot. I grew up white and privileged, and *I* still know this guy is an idiot.
Believing success for poor children simply depends on them deciding to study hard is no different than believing being a billionaire depends simply on deciding to have more money.
For many poor children, deciding to study hard is simply not an option. They're too busy worried about needing to eat.
Are you really that naive? I wish you were a poor kid of any race.
Mr Marks, I agree with your article … yet you are missing a cornerstone piece, black children are never taught how to think and our culture reinforces conformism to a degree that would shock most people. I enjoy talking with white people and pointing out the huge difference in our culture, this is a big one, when whites come in contact with people different than themselves the worst thing that may happen in a social setting is the will be ignored or excluded … with black people it brings out deep seated insecurity, so you will be verbal torn down and maybe even physically attacked. This is the source of the "acting white" issues where black improving themselves are met with contempt. All that conformity suppresses individualism needed for go thinking skills, then they will be drawn to learning and self expansion. But I'm an empiricist, I taught my son and a group of his friends lateral, counter-factual, falsification (Popper), skeptic thinking skills …. C students to A students that have a passion for learning.
Of course, they would have to be informed about such opportunities. I take it you're going to launch a massive campaign to educate the children in question and their families about how they can improve their situation. I congratulate you this momentous first step.
Of course, if everyone does what you suggest, then there is nothing about learning technology that will make kids who follow your advice stand out in a job hunt. But don't worry about that. Just try to figure out how to tell them about your wonderful column, which they probably aren't reading unless they are already following your advice anyway.
What you wrote was simply blatantly ignorant. While you say it's hard for "poor black kids" (since you don't know anything at all about what it means to be a poor black kid) to do the things you suggest, it's much much harder than you would ever know.
Difficult to study hard if your school doesn't have enough money for books, your teachers don't necessarily care about you, your school doesn't have enough money for "technology", your family doesn't have enough money for "technology", hundreds of other kids want help from their guidance counselor, it costs money to apply to schools, it costs much more money to go to those schools, in our current economy full rides to school are hardly present and you'll end up in debt before you finish school, and they don't have Gene Marks there to teach them code, a skill many privileged people lack but have the resources to learn but poor black kids have neither the access to technology or the instruction.
Try not to write about what you don't understand. Also, I would like to see you volunteer to teach code to "poor black kids" maybe you'll learn something.
You believe those opportunities exist because they did – for you. People of color and people who live in poverty and people of color who live in poverty have very different experiences in our society – than middle class white men.
yes. yes. yes. yes. yes.
Then why did you specifically title this thing to reference black kids? About 1/2 the people in the US below the poverty line are white, if you add in the Hispanics this means that most of the countries poor that Obama was talking about aren't actually black.
Beyond that, would you give different advice to a poor white or Hispanic kid? Probably not, so this raises three possibilities:
1. You did not know the above stat and think most poor people are black
2. You did not think it's necessary, for whatever reason, to address poor white or Hispanic kids
3. You wrote this in your spare time, didn't really think it through, and made a mistake by bringing up race in the context of a discussion about economic mobility.
#1 would make you ignorant and #2 might make you look stupid, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, say you're a human being like the rest of us, and go with #3.
This is beyond ignorant. WOW!
Just because you believe something doesn't make it a fact sir! Your article is based in fantasy and frankly extremely insulting.
Yes. Me also as a poor black kid growing up who is now middle class (well lower middle class) person has to disagree with your posts also. Your not taking into account all of the obstacles that people face when trying to gain access to many of those things. We would have to do a lot of walking to get to where we need to be (and Im not complaining because I was a walkaholic when I was young) but most are not. Most of the laziness that prevents them is inherited from people who lack motivation themselves. Sure we would need to change the stereotype but your not understanding how hard it is. I used to love going to the library when I was young because thats when the internet was just getting started and I was curious. But I would get jumped by some guys sometimes who were all about trouble. And Im not a weak guy, Im definitely not the one to run or pick on, but things like that happen all too often. And stuff like that change kid's paths in life from motivation to do good, to participation to fight back. Also, by the time someone reads an article like this they are either in highschool or far in middle school. the habits they have are already running their lives. Hard to change a players game in the bottom of the 9th. You had some good ideas in an ideal situations, but like Ryan showed you, its a lot worst than you think for most. Almost unimaginable. Both of my parents were on cocaine as I grew up. My dad kept me fed, but the drama of drugs also ran through my house. Things that can change you forever. So I applaude your attempt, but you offering this explanation to poor kids is as silly as me explaining to millionaires what to invest in.
If anything, my compliments on writing an article that gotten so much attention in recent days. That being said, I know you wouldn't of written this article if:
1. You lived your life being black and poor
2. Understood gender in America
3. Understood race in America
4. Have a knowledge of sociological and historical issues of Black America
5. Were truly aware America's tradition of racial and social stratification
6. Were truly aware of your "White Privilege." "So life was easier for me," does not equal awareness.
I wonder if you are asking yourself why so many people are so incensed?
Well I can only liken your article to the time Barbara Bush said of Katrina victims in the Superdome:
"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them."
Said with such guileless ignorance: I can not fault you. The reality is you sincerely don't any better. While not being overtly racist like Mrs. Bush's comment, your article was truly ignorant. The overall tone of the article was appalling, the premiss being "poor black kids" have so many resources to succeed, why don't they? Your article doesn't say, "If I were poor black kid and I were the best student in my school, I still may not be getting the same caliber of education as my white suburban counterparts." And yet, it is a reality that exist in our educational system. It also doesn't say is, "If I were a poor black kid my use of technology is severely limited, because my over-crowded school, can not afford classrooms with computers, or even new computers to keep up with ever changing technological trends." or "My community is so poor, they have little to no funding for libraries, after-schools programs, much less program which I can learn to get more "technical."
What really infuriated me is that your ignorance is detrimental. Without realizing, you've given some the belief that, "poor black kids" can succeed; they're just not trying hard enough to find the resources available to them: an audience that includes the top 1%. You've conveyed, to some of your readers, to an audience equally as ignorant as you this thought. I hope you do learn from this experience. I hope you sit and contemplate the tone, of your article. Lastly, I hope you look into community outreach programs in your city that help these "poor black kids," lend a hand and learn stories of what some of these children at times have to endure.
Mr. Marks, I just read your article and although I agree that opportunities exist for poor black kids to be successful, I don't agree with the way you made it seem as though ignorance of opportunity is the reason they are unsuccessful. I was this poor black kid you speak of, and I am successful. At age 26, I have exceeded most expectations I had for myself. I studied hard, I made good grades, I googled everything I didn't know, I went to college, and I am now successful. Just as you said in your article. Yet, I have six good friends, who like me, are poor black kids who did the exact same thing. They followed this exact recipe for success, yet they are still in search of jobs. They don't lack drive, they aren't ignorant. Yet, why aren't they successful like you said they would be. Well, I'll tell you why. This is due to inequality in our world and the fact that most people who aren't minorities will ever understand that it takes not only these things you speak of to be successful, but also diversity laws inacted by the government in certain circumstances or some other form of good fortune to be successful. Unlike you, we didn't know anyone to give us reccomendations for jobs. And honestly Mr. Marks, if it had not have been for diversity in the workplace laws, I wouldnt have the job I have right now. Everyone at my current place of employment wondered how i got here when i first arrived. Before I even spoke a word, they already had this preconceived opinion of me. So tell me, if i had to interview with these people for the job, i was doomed from the start. Even though i studied, made good grades, and all the rest you speak of. So its not about ignorance of opportunity that hold that poor black kid you speak of back. IT IS THE WORLD'S PERCEPTION OF THAT POOR BLACK KID THAT HOLDS HIM BACK!!
Wow, after reading all these well-written, intelligent, polite and informed comments almost unanimously declaring you uninformed, foolish and condescending… you still "will stick to what I wrote"
You Sir, are a class act.
Telling black people what they already knew..wow. Now lets flip it ….White people should quit spending America's money try to get other people to think like them. White people should pay back the people they raped dry before they say something about what help they need in the first place. White people should right there wrongs first. The story does not say what a non lucky child should do just get crushed in the gears of Earth? What you thinking is true-ish but we know that …smh even the playing field , stop jail states …take jails off the stock market
Hi Gene Marks,
A few questions: what qualifies you to offer this advice? Have you previously worked or lived in an inner city neighborhood? Have you reviewed data and research on existing barriers to educational opportunity? In what ways do food access, safety, violence, drug activity at the neighborhood level, the built environment, transportation access, racial profiling by authority figures, mental health, health insurance status, social capital, parental education, class, race, body weight, social desirability, inner city social norms, and teenage employment complicate the underlying problems you speak of? What indicators do you have that technology, good grades, and guidance counselors are the key resources for upward mobility in inner city neighborhoods? Is your advice consistent with experts and their field research? Are you being proactive with your advice and reaching out to "poor black kids" in West Philadelphia?
This is nothing more than spaghetti on the wall and it certainly did not stick, sir. It very much seems as if you "winged it" and decided to offer some pie in the sky advice. I commend you for the effort, but your tone, delivery, and cultural disconnect is terribly insulting. Seriously, the title alone is cause for concern.
In the future, please let your opinions of other cultures be informed by direct interaction, qualitative research, and field experts as opposed to your own subjective experiences. Because, at the end of the day, you will remain a privileged white man and continue to see the world through a lens mired with your own experiences.
Black in Philadelphia
Gene- Why don't you go into West Philly and find a kid that you could shadow for week. Live in his world, see what he faces daily. Then come back and write an article about it. Wonder if it will be the same outcome… doubt it.
Mr. Marks, if I was a well to do middle aged White guy working for Forbes, it would be easy to sit down and pull together a list of research outlets an other resources that might help to make a poor Black kid a success. Being poor brings with it a host of other issues that you have not considered. Being a Black child in this country and being poor, you cannot even begin to fathom what it's like. The world should be as simple as your simple minded essay. Try living in a neighborhood where you worry about surviving day by day – and I mean dodging bullets and other evils. Try having nothing to eat and trying to stay focused. Try living in conditions not worthy of an animal. I don't think any child is born aiming for rock bottom, least of all Black children. Children by definition are reliant on the people charged with their care, when they don't have that, how exactly should they aim for the stars? I was born in abject poverty. I dreamt big, but had it not been for the love of my adoptive parents I would not have made it out the circumstances I was born into. Like most rich Republicans, you'd like to blame the least able to defend themselves to puff yourselves up.
While these suggestions have worked well for many, technology isn't really the core answer – getting the right information is. And context is everything, which differs dramatically between poor and not-poor environments — using technology means having technology at home or school; applying to the best schools possible requires having application fees; success with a guidance counselor is limited to having guidance counselors at your school. Placing the burden of overcoming environment on the young adult is to not understand that environment. I went to a disadvantaged city high school. Expecting green and stressed teenagers to rise above that is a tall order, and I came from an education-oriented family. What eventually helped me was found outside of my environment … seeking role models (people in my community, in the news, in books), and talking to people in professions of interest. We have to find better ways of exposing youngsters to life's rewarding possibilities … rather than expecting them to figure their way out of the darkness with a computer.
My mama taught me, if you do not have anything nice to say then say Bless You. So, Mr. Marks, Bless You.
But I will say this, in theory you suggestions would probably work. However when a child's basic needs are not met, you know, things like food, shelter, water, compassion, a child will most likely not care about what their grades are. They would be more concerned about where their next meal will come from or where they are going to sleep that night.
I have a couple of questions for you Mr. Gene, how do suggest a child do the things you suggest when the school district they are enrolled in has lost its accreditation and has no funding do to the loss of accreditation? How do you suggest a child do the things you suggest when they are homeless and living in a car or in an abandoned building and there is no internet access or library because it was shut down due to the violence in the neighborhood. How do you suggest a child do the things you suggest when they are so hungry the child will eat dirt just to take the edge off the hunger pains? Have you ever been so hungry you would eat the garbage off the side of the road? Have you ever stepped foot in an inner city school? How can you suggest these children just take initiative when they don't even know where to start because they are not from the realm of "hard work pays off"? The realm these children are in, is the realm of survival. Let me ask you this Gene, have you ever had to live in the realm of survival and I am guessing you haven't, so how do you think you can "suggest" anything regarding these children?
This whole article would surprise me, but being from a white family in the racist south I hear this facade of racism all the time. Just because you don't outwardly say "them jungle bunnies need to do better." doesn't mean we can't hear it when you type it.
"While these suggestions have worked for many, technology isn't really the core answer – getting the right information is. And context is everything, which differs dramatically between poor and not-poor environments — using technology means having technology at home or school; applying to the best schools possible requires having money for the application fees; success with a guidance counselor is limited to having good guidance counselors at your school, if any. I went to a disadvantaged city high school. Expecting any teenager to rise above those circumstances is a tall order, given the nature of the unformed teenage mind coupled with obstacles all around. What eventually helped me was found outside of my environment … seeking role models (people in my community, in the news, in books), and talking to people in professions of interest. Society has to find better ways of exposing youngsters to life's rewarding possibilities … rather than expecting them to figure their way out of the darkness. It's up to infromed adults in the room to shed light. A computer is only as good as the person using it, and that's where the argument about technology as a route to success actually fails.
Great response!
Great comment.
Dear Gene,
Great article. I thought I would share with you another brilliant piece on poverty that really resonates with some of your own views. Enjoy!
After reading the article, I have a few questions. How many poor black families do you currently know? In writing this article where did you acquire the research? Did you do a survey? Are you citing scholarly research? Lastly, is this article totally based on your personal opinion?
I agree with Ryanc86. His blindness is a danger because of the audience it will reach. It took so much more for me to strive and to make it.
I was actually offended by his comment that single parents were just plain tired to do anything once they got home. I am sure there are many corporate America people that can make that same argument.
I am a young single mother and I do work two jobs and also have a Masters degree. My five year old daughters education is very important to me and I make the time to take her to the library, show her how to use my computer at work, and get her involved in helping others.
No one, especially not my guidance counselor, sought that I received scholarships. Scholarships at my school were given to those whose parents knew the guidance counselor/worked at the school .
@andrewlevine ~ Although I'm more inclined to agree with what I believe is the "intent" of Gene's article, I find your response to be quite thoughtful and thought-provoking. There so much I'd like to say on this important topic but I'm studying for the LSAT and I just do not have enough brainpower left to share lucidly. :~>
You cannot help that you are completely ignorant to what it would ACTUALLY be like to be a poor black kid, but you do not have the good sense to realize it. Instead you have written an embarrassingly and disgustingly condescending article. I think that you have good intentions and I understand your desire to believe in the notion that, "the opportunity is there for everyone" if they work hard, but that just isn't true. Maybe you should do some volunteer work with organizations that attempt to help or mentor real poor black kids so that you can hope to begin to realize what their reality actually is.
This is also a great response to your article: http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/2011/12/13/if-i-were-the-middle-class-white-guy-gene-marks/#.Tuq4SHZWGPX
You wait until your final paragraph to point out that kids don't have the brains to figure all that out themselves, a fact which renders your long diatribe completely pointless. You're able to credit your parents' instructive and guiding role in your life, but you're infusing your narrow views into the decisions that a "poor black kid" could make as if children have the foresight to know how the consequences of their choices will turn out. At what age precisely do you expect poor children to begin researching prep schools that will get them to the best colleges? Many an affluent Black parent thinks back to what they wish they could've done differently when they were poor Black kids, but they're aware that whatever they didn't learn from their parents couldn't benefit them in their early decision-making.
Your argument–not that you have much of one–should be directed to parents. Read Thomas Shapiro's book, "Hidden Cost of Being African-American" and have more respect for the historical factors that affect what situations–economic and other–we're all born into.
With an Ivy League MBA, and 3 other college degrees, I can certainly attest to the benefits of knowledge as an equalizer, but I did not grow up knowing how the system really worked. Nobody where I lived knew, and therefore there was nobody there to teach that to me. I'm privileged, however, to have had a mother who reminded us that we had opportunities to improve ourselves through learning. It wasn't until much later that I mastered that learning to chart my own course, but by that time, I wasn't a poor Black kid any longer.
You're right to the point, my friend; and I couldn't agree more. I'm from very poor background, a child of Latino immigrants, and although I had the opportunity to get degrees in Engineering and Law, I can't forget those childhood friends of mine (some of them smarter and/or better students than me) that just felt behind in life. Mr. Marks is well intentioned, but is sooooo wrong! No matter how intelligent and well educated you are, it is hard to understand something you've just not lived. He just doesn't understand that many, in fact most, of the decisions and actions he would do or take if he "were a poor black kid", in the life of a real kid are or have been made and taken by others… even before the kid himself was even born.
How well do you think your children would do (with the natural talent and personalities they have) without the guidance of you and your wife? How well would they doo without your supervision of homework, without knowing that your expectation of them is high, without you and your wife as role models??? Yes, there are children who manage to get an education, in spite of their environment, but most excel at least partly BECAUSE of their environment …
You're right to the point, my friend; and I couldn't agree more. I'm from very poor background, a child of Latino immigrants, and although I had the opportunity to get degrees in Engineering and Law, I can't forget those childhood friends of mine (some of them smarter and/or better students than me) that just felt behind in life. Mr. Marks is well intentioned, but is so wrong! No matter how intelligent and well educated you are, it is hard to understand something you've just not lived. He just doesn't understand that many, in fact most, of the decisions and actions he would do or take if he "were a poor black kid", in the life of a real kid are or have been made and taken by others… even before the kid himself was even born.
I'm also from very poor background, a child of Latino immigrants, and although I had the opportunity to get degrees in Engineering and Law, I can't forget those childhood friends of mine (some of them smarter and/or better students than me) that just felt behind in life. Your intentions are great, Mr. Marks, but so are your ignorance. No matter how intelligent and well educated a person is, it is hard to understand something you've just not lived. You just don't understand that many, in fact most, of the decisions and actions you would do or take if he "were a poor black kid", in the life of a real kid are or have been made and taken by others: people, government, circumstances, etc.
Again, this is the problem. How can you dare to even think that you have the answers to what it takes to be a Black American. Do you know how many Black children are put in a box before the age of 8. Can you imagine being a child, but not having your child like actions taken as such, but instead deemed criminal or dare say sick and needing medication. Black children do not have the luxury of having a drinking and pot smoking hangout that all the cops know about but blow off as kids being kids. But let a Black child get caught with a joint, you can best believe these same cops will empty his pockets, put his hands behind his back and set the stage for him being in the system. How dare you even imply that you know what it is like to attend school as a Black youth, dealing with teachers who may already see you as a test case and believe your path is already written. Some guidance counselors are partial to certain students whom they feel are more deserving or give them a warm fuzzy feeling. If you can't relate to a child's experience, you are more likely to not understand or have compassion for their journey.
Do me a favor, go to a makeup artist, live like a Balck man for a week. Shop in the mall, see if you get buzzed into stores, see where you are seated at a restuarant, try to hail a cab, go to a rental agency/broker etc. After a week you may understand the Black experience and how dealing with bias, both subtle and direct can be a heavy load to bare. Or better yet, have your neice or nephew do the same and apply for jobs, smoke a joint, hang out at the local store parking lot, ride the transit line. Then Gene maybe I could take you seriously.
Mr. Marks, may I suggest that you make an attempt to observe the school and home life of a poor black child before you continue to make yourself look like an… Well, you know. Why don't you begin by watching "Waiting for Superman" or reading the Annie Casey Foundation's recently issued report, which indicates that high school drop out rates among impoverished minorities can be predicted by the third grade? How about paying a visit to an inner city classroom? Before you continue to seek an audience for your ignorance, give some thought to the number of poor children who have certified learning disabilities, but who do not progress beyond a second grade reading level by the time they graduate from high school — if they graduate.
I am completing my degree in education, with special education certification. I am an honor student, and I cannot wait to teach our poorest (and largely ignored) children.
Don't spend your time speaking about that which you know nothing of. Take a look at the schools – start with schools in the West Philadelphia area. Volunteer. Contribute. Sit in on a class or two. Take a closer look at the weight of poverty on the lives of these children in the form of inadequate food, substandard shelter, academic unreadiness, and poor services. Find out why some of the parents of these kids — 150 years after the Emancipation Proclamation — have not changed their minds about who they are, and who still exist as "free slaves".
I won't tell you how to be white and middle class, I promise. Don't tell poor black children how to be who they are. Instead, do what you can to make things better for them. Anybody can spout.
the ingredients are up to the individual to provide. His recipe is EXCELLENT and FOOL PROOF.
YES, PRIVATE SCHOOL. You think too small and narrow. That's what I think. Everything he said is true.
Thank you for the article. I stand by you because I know what you say to be true. I am a African American female who grew up in extreme poverty, abuse, and neglect–but I was very smart in school, and I LOVE TO READ. I did not go as far as I could have because I made unwise, uninformed choices and before I knew it I had a baby. Her name is Natakie and I have kept her to your exact formula since she was born (since that was all I could pass on to her-my love of learning) and today she is exceptional. She attends one of those exclusive prep schools (almost at no cost) plays piano and violin and swims and is excellent in Math, Science, and Latin. It has taken WORK and TIME, but she not facing the same disadvantages that I did. Your formula for success is right, but tough. You have to know what you want and know that you CAN ACHIEVE IT. Many people have no faith in themselves and what they can accomplish. Me and my daughter? We can do anything!!! BTW…I am a senior at U of M, still studying and still learning and consequently still paving a secure path for my future. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.
Those kids are poor not handicapped or retarded. THEY CAN LEARN and do ALL that he has said if they want to. As an African American female who knows all about poverty (your mom worked-mine did drugs) I am sick of people making EXCUSES for us. WE ARE CAPABLE OF MORE THAN PEOPLE WILL GIVE US CREDIT FOR. Shame on you!!!!
um, no it's knowledge. You have to know that your situation is bad, be intelligent enough to figure out how to change it and go about doing so. It's sure fire–luck HAS NO SAY in this matter. Beyonce, J.Lo and Lebron James–those are the lucky ones. That's luck and talent, KNOWLEDGE is a level up:)
How did those slaves EVER learn to read and write and cook and sew WHEN THEY HAD ALL THAT OTHER STUFF? D E T E R M I N A T I O N.
Your problem was that you DID NOT KNOW YOURSELF. With the accomplishments you list you should have laughed the comments off…I mean really? Sure we face/faced BS, but honestly is up to us. It's all in one's attitude. No one was EVER able to convince me that I could/should ONLY be this or that. Being intelligent-I knew that I could do what I wanted. AND I did…my failures are my own. No one stopped me EVER-and I never believed that they could.
How could you NOT TELL THEM? Not everyone knows what they should. You have a responsibility to do more than just offer a hand up–TELL THEM WHAT'S UP?!?!?!
I think you are living in a dream world if you think poor kids are just all of sudden going start using the internet to solve their problems. You seem very flippant in how you dole out what you would do if you were a poor Black kid when you don't seem to know anything about that situation. I agree there is opportunity. I grew up without my parents, raised by my grandmother who worked nights for the post office. I ended up with an engineering degree, a PE and a MBA. I have a wonderful life.
However, I was one of ten black boys that grew up in the same street in Queens, NY when crack cocaine became rampant. Out of those ten, I'm the only one that went to college. The rest are either dead or ended up in jail.
I don't say this to brag, but rather to point out that because of the long term problem that has existed with the African American society in this country, it is silly to think that because you in hindsight would do "this and that" to succeed would apply instinctively to everyone else. Again, I believe there is opportunity for everyone but the reality is that poor kids have a lot to overcome in their environment and America is not doing enough to push them in the right direction despite all our money and power.
You don't seem like a horrible guy, let's just start there… you're just a little ignorant when it comes to an African American child's experience in America. Our experiences are all very different and because you have never been a "Black kid" you could NEVER understand the psychological aspect of the Black kid's struggle. I honestly think that's why you're being responded to the way you are, you didn't even touch that part. I was blessed enough to have parents who wanted to shield me from things. I was a poor black kid and just because I'm doing better than others I grew up with does not make me special; it makes me one blessed young woman. If you were a poor Black kid sir, you would be worried about the necessities in life which most people take for granted- shelter, food, clothing, water… then maybe education and opportunity after a long list of other things. If your brain with your experiences were transplanted into a poor, young Black child you probably would be confused as Hell because what you wrote is not real life for most Black kids. This article (to me) reflects what you, Gene Marks the White man, think you'd do if trapped in a Black kid's body- so for that I can't be angry. I'd possibly give you a week to last though lol. This article has a provocative title but that's all it is, and you can stand by what you've written because you don't know anything else. Yes Obama is great inspiration but he barely can even touch the topic of being a person of color in America properly because of criticism. I'm sure if he did, you'd respectfully never speak on a subject like this (at least publicly). It's kinda like "live it first, then you tell us what you'd do" because as of right now, it's just a bunch of gibberish. Oh yeah, and just being real… you're a white guy, a writer for Forbes.com writing about being a poor child of color. That's kinda hilarious but totally offensive to folks that still feel the effects of white privilege. I don't know if you realize it but this article could definitely be characterized as just that, an exercising of your White privilege. I hope that maybe I brought you a little perspective, and I wish you well.
I'm not a poor black kid. I was a poor hispanic kid. When we moved into town and went to the school to register me…guess what we talked to the all knowing guidance counselor. The counselor suggestion was to get by cause I wasn't going to get into college. So maybe they do know all but some can't get past your race to help you. I had to do it alone. And if I had to do it again. I'd skip the counselor.
Instead of writing a long elaborate response, I will simply say this, take a walk one day in a "poor black kid's" shoes; better yet, a middle class black man's shoes. As a black man, walk into a interview with a group of middle to upper class white males and be smarter and more qualified and see what happens…. Just walk into a restaurant or a clothing store and watch the manager greet all of your white counterparts and ignore you. You could never explain to me what happens when a "poor black kid" takes YOUR advice, graduate from a college with honors, and walk into the real world and be shot down (figuratively) because he his black. So, until you can change racism and inequality you can keep your advice to a "poor black kid".
Excellent response, I could not have said it better myself. It's very interesting how the advantaged are always speaking on the disadvantaged. It's like someone describing chemo treatments who never had cancer, IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Mr. Marks, you are looking at this with the assumtion that "poor black kids" would have the same self esteem and coping skills that you, a middle class white man has. This basic lack of understanding is prevelant in our society right now, and as a social worker, I can see all the damage it does. If anything, your article has brought this debate back to the public's attention, and I thank you for that.
We can not ask children to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and then take away the bootstraps. Poverty is more than just finances – it is often a sense of hopelessness as well. By telling people it's their fault, they just don't work hard enough, we are enabling this hopelessness to continue. Perhaps you could do some research on the subject to learn more.
Speaking of technology; it might interest you to know that 98% OF learning-disabled poor students who are FULLY ELIGIBLE for assistive technology are never offered this valuable tool. Anybody can have an opinion, but when you have this type of an audience, you should make some effort to know what you are talking about.
Your a nice guy, your article is very sincere, but SO SIMPLISTIC. Its like you feel that poverty is the ONLY distraction to a poor person, what about violence, what about libraries with only an hour a day of access, if you can get to one? What about teacher that thinks your a "lost case" already. Even if you got good grades you could still get crushed in college because your preparation sucked, if you could even get in. You know as an black man I made it out of "poverty" but it was largely due to luck. My parents moved out to the U.S. and left me with my aunt in Canada for a while before I could join them, and I had no friends or TEACHERS to help me become a "good" student. My teacher told me to my face "you've run out of second chances here, I'm not going to help you." What happens to kids who aren't "special" and can't just switch schools once they are labeled a bad apple? The funny thing is, I had to leave the country, then try avoid the public school my parents took me to, and miraculously bypass auditions and entrance exams to get into a magnet school, which only happened because I was fluent in a second language (many Canadians are), so someone hundreds of miles away thought I was "special" because being bilingual wasn't common in America like it was in Canada. Then I had to change my friends and beg my way into honors classes and fail at some until I was smart enough to grade in AP and a 3.7 weighted GPA. Even then I didn't know about guidance counselors until it was too late. I got one scholarship for $1000. But luck prevailed again and I got a full ride to a local school due to a tobacco company settlement vs. the State of Nevada. I begged my way into Honors College, and eventually got into sales and made it to the middle class. But it wasn't luck. I know it was Jesus all the way. I just hope that guys like you that are sincere help inner city kids get access to technology and help them find safe havens where they can actually get REAL time away from violence because they need time and teachers to catch them up. Some of these people don't have parents or are actually hungry in school. It runs deeper. I work at a university now, and its hard for adults to learn to write code and even they only succeed with friends that are programmers. Can you show me where the programmers are in the inner city??? Oh, that's right they aren't there. They are in the suburbs with expensive computers writing sweet articles like yours. (BTW a bargain computer is 200-300 bucks, not affordable in the hood.) Please use Google Scholar to inform yourself before jumping into realities you are uneducated in. Who were your sources for this "academic" article anyway?
I typically do not respond or comment on articles such as these. However, as a poor black kid turned college administrator I felt I had to say something. I actually have more questions than comments.
Mr. Marks, do you know any poor black kids from West Philadelphia? Have you spent time talking to them about their lives, their hopes and dreams? Have you talked to them about what they believe their opportunities in life may be? Have you spent time in their neighborhoods, homes or schools? Have you?
Based on your article, my assumption would be no. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
How can you write an article on what you would do, if, given that you are not a person of color and never have been a "poor black kid"? Your intentions may have been a good one, but as they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions; your perspective on poverty etc. is still that of a white middle class, middle aged man. Your demographic information is the definition of white privilege in this country.
Until you truly put yourself in a position to fully understand the experiences of the "poor black kid", people of color and other oppressed groups in this country, your comments and opinions will continue to spark the attention that you have gotten and by many seem uninformed and ignorant.
Bottom line, your providing a "coulda", "woulda", "shoulda" opinion on an experience that you have not lived or will every have to live.
As an educator, I encourage you to go into West Philadelphia and get to know the "poor black kid" that you spoke of in your article. In the meantime you may want to read up on the work of Peggy McIntosh and Tim Wise.
You can "believe" it all you want Gene, it doesn't get you any closer to being right. There is plenty of room for thoughtful debate and discourse on solutions to disadvantage and poverty. But to be meaningful that discourse requires a common understanding of fundamental facts. I'm sure you're a nice, well-meaning fellow, but make no mistake – you don't have the slightest clue what the realities of true poverty and disadvantage are. Exhibit A is pretty much everything you wrote above. And so your suggestions, while well-meaning, are about as helpful and sensical as suggesting a quadraplegic swim his way to shore if he finds himself in the middle of a river with no help in sight. I mean, all he needs to do is use his arms and legs right?
You can "believe" it all you want Gene, it doesn't get you any closer to being right. There is plenty of room for thoughtful debate and discourse on solutions to disadvantage and poverty. But to be meaningful that discourse requires a common understanding of fundamental facts. I'm sure you're a nice, well-meaning fellow, but make no mistake – you don't have the slightest clue what the realities of true poverty and disadvantage are. Exhibit A is pretty much everything you wrote above. And so your suggestions, while well-meaning, are about as helpful and sensical as suggesting a quadraplegic swim his way to shore if he finds himself in the middle of a river with no help in sight. I mean, all he needs to do is use his arms and legs right?
As an ex-poor black guy, I'm utterly mystified by the flak you're taking. I can understand critics saying that some of your advice is real hard for many black kids to follow. But that's very different from saying it's bad advice. It is, in fact, excellent advice. So what is everybody so het up about?
Mr Marks its amazing that with all of your advantages you can't do better. Your recipe is a no-brainer in a vacum.
It is clear that you don't know and you don't know that you don't know. Dangerous. If you really care I encourage you to spend deep time in impoverished educational settings of any racial make-up.
This article reinforces the stereotype that white guys don't need to know much to succeed. The fact that you editor at Forbes accepted this piece is further discouraging. You and the editor need to give Forbes their money back.
Mr. Marks,
As a pre-service teacher in a school that focuses on urban and inner-city education, I can tell you right now that the opportunity is NOT there for every student. There simply isn't the technology available that you seem to think there is. Some schools have it, yes, but it's not in every school and not every child has access to it. Besides that, many of the students in the schools we're placed in for observations and student teaching come from homes where the parents either don't care or don't have time to be involved. The students with involved parents do fairly well, but that's not the case for many of them. Besides that, these "poor black kids" are being taught by middle class white women who think like you — that if you study hard and get good grades — anything is possible. And when the students don't do that to the teacher's ideals, she usually resorts to giving up. I observed in a classroom like this. The teacher had been at the school for 4 years. She told me she "loved her students to death," but not once in the 10 hours I observed did she give any indication to them that she cared. She essentially told them they were stupid. Why would any kid want to learn if their teacher is telling them they're stupid?
The opportunities are NOT always there. Students don't always have the motivation or desire to learn, and teachers and parents aren't always there to help them see the importance.
Gene, we all ought to applaud hard work and the people who overcome their hardships, but the notion that simply studying hard and getting good grades is all it takes ignores many other factors
For a couple of decades my mother worked teaching home bound children in a number of districts in our hometown. The children at the wealthy schools had access to computers in school, modern books and parents who could spend large amounts of money on their car. The children in the poor schools had no computers, twenty year old books and households full of distraction such as houses of prostitution being run out of the back rooms.
The most common causes for homebound status in the wealthy schools were long term illnesses and periods of time in mental health facilities, in the poor schools they were pregnancy and gun shot wounds
hardly a level playing field and more disheartening than your starry eyed prognostications anticipate
The one thing left out in all this is dealing with the threat of violence that many kids suffer in low income areas. My friends from the schools in the city of Richmond have crazy stories they luckily survived. But that's what kids did there, survive. Not much of an education happening, just an attempt to keep kids under control. It seems many schools, over crowded and under supplied, are this way these days. Teachers are more referees than educators.
upgradeddiddy– do you have any suggestions for readings about this topic and that support your point of view?
The inequality around us is more than kids not applying themselves nor them not taking advantage of the resources available. Let's look at the unemployment rate for 2006 comparing the races as it relates to having a Bachelor's or higher:
Blacks: 2.8%
Hispanics: 2.2%
Asian: 2.1%
Whites: 2%
Also, if we look at the statistics for those who only have a high school diploma, we will see an even greater indication of this obstacle.
Blacks: 12.8%
Whites: 5.9%
Hispanic: 5.5%
Asian: 3.8%
It is not a lack of smarts nor can it be contributed to laziness or any other excuse people give-especially those that have never experienced that type of upbringing.
You mentioned how 99% of the students at a charter school in W. Philadelphia are black. Philadelphia is the fourth largest predominantly black area in the U.S.-with 82% of the population being black. So, the black population in any school in Philly would not be lower than any other race.
As far as the question you asked yourself, you can always speculate, but until you have actually lived it, you will never know what you would be able to do…
Gene – I'm a white middle-aged white-collar guy who grew up upper-middle class and stayed that way. It would be easy for me to agree with your advice to young african americans, if I hadn't actually spent some time in public schools in Chicago and seen what they're facing. Gene — a challenge. Get your phone. Call the principal of an elementary school in the bad area you reference. Ask to volunteer in a classroom for two weeks, maybe an hour or two a day. Talk to the kids and the teachers. Most importantly, hang around and talk to the adults who pick up the kids. Give those adults your advice in person. Really. Then write a follow up to your article. You need to know the subject you're trying to cover. And you do not. Two weeks. Pick up the phone now, call a principal, volunteer. You simply do not, not, not know anything about the subject. And once you do, I hope you'll write again with new and better ideas.
Geez-Louise, Gene- Caught the tiger by the tail with this one. Just heard Rev. Al dissing you on the radio and Smerconish applauding. Methinks a clarion call to participate in multiple team sports would've gone a long way toward mullifying the opposing masses. But that's just the musings of a former single parent kid from 69th St. who used education and technology –and team sports–to improve his lot in life! Endure the storm!
Mr. Marks,
::sigh:: (That's a heartfelt, burdened sigh, not a sarcastic one!)
No doubt your intentions were good, and your heart was in the right place when you wrote that article. However, your article brings to mind, "forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do." In your case, what you SAY.
You know not what you say because you have not, and can never have, any idea what it is like to be BLACK in America. You have no idea of the odds that are stacked against you, whether you're rich or poor. You can't have that experience because you're just not black. So sorry to state the obvious, but that's a major factor to be considered when you're write a piece such as the one you wrote.
You know not what you say because you have not any idea what it is like to be POOR. I sincerely hope that you never have to find out.
Additionally, you know not what you say because you rely on hearsay, and second- and third-person input, to guide your thought processes. That is like being a person who wears glasses, trying to wear someone else's glasses on top of your own, while trying to look through a microscope; everything is distorted.
I have a challenge for you: come visit the school where I teach in Kensington, North Philadelphia. Of course, if you live near West Philly, you could visit there, but you wouldn't have the opportunity to talk me. I am BLACK teacher. I was POOR, and as a SINGLE MOTHER, I raised a daughter in North Philly, who later whose daughter attended Central High. I currently serve poor, black children, the very ones you write about. Come visit, and acquire FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE of your topic.
IF you should decide to come, you will need to remember one thing: POOR IS POOR, whether you're black, white, Asian or latino. Being poor is, in and of itself, a challenge. However, being poor and MINORITY, particularly POOR AND BLACK, well, that's a horse of a different color.
If you'd like to meet my challenge, please reply to my comment, and contact me!
A formerly poor (but still black) teacher
Your article was a kind attempt to address the problems of inequity. However, by focusing only on blacks it became made it racist. The challenges of the poor are not solely the problems of African Americans. Inequities make life hard on Hispanics, Asians and although I agree they have it easier, Whites too. The way out of the ghetto is so much more than computer access. Just access to a quality education, without sub coming to the lure/safety of gangs and drug sales, is a challenge. Proper health care, role models, visible positive alternatives, and family support is a challenge to many poor. By choosing the title "Poor Black Kid" you are ignoring the larger problem and creating a different problem.
Great note. Of course some people make it out of dire circumstances. But many don't. I got the benefit of educated white parents who had the money to send me to college (no debt). My fiancee's parents were connected so I got a great job out of college. Eventually, I became an entrepreneur, what conservatives would call a self-made man. But every step of the way I was helped by a network of family, friends, and education paid for by my government. The message for poor children was right on, but everything has a context. I work with a neighborhood action coalition in my downtown San Jose neighborhood where one street is historic homes, and the next street is single moms and the near-homeless living in tiny apartments. I see kids every day who are not going to get out of their circumstances. Some will, but many won't. They won't have computers or be educated enough to get maximum value out of them. They won't have parents who read or discuss finance and politics at the dinner table. They won't have friends whose parents are connected to help them get that next job or promotion. So, yes, by all means let's teach kids to apply themselves, but let's also advance in their experiences and education.
I agree with ryanc86. In contrast to his self-motivation (which I stand up and applaud) I have a friend who is female, now in her 40s. Her parents weren't wealthy but not poor either. After only one month in high school she begged her parents to let her drop out saying she "couldn't do the (school) work". All through school she made B and C grades and although not failing by any means, they let her quit. She pats herself on the back for working under the table, mostly at bar-tending, boasts about having never paid any social security, and cheating the government by not paying taxes on that under the table money she earned. In short, she hasn't put much into life, hasn't planned for the future or any sort of retirement. She doesn't have a good worth ethic and yet she expects to have a decent retirement. On what, I ask? There are lessons to be learned here. First, her parents did her a terrible disservice letting her drop out of school. Second, her desire to do nothing with her life except basically take up space is the height of pure laziness. She told me she doesn't want to work. I told her that when you get down to it, nobody would want to work if they didn't have to. The rest of us do it because we want to have something and to have gotten it for ourselves. I also told her that if everyone did as she has, there would be real problems with that. Whenever you wanted to buy groceries there wouldn't be anybody working there, and if you wanted to stop and grab a burger there wouldn't be anyone working there either. There is nothing wrong with earning a living. There is everything wrong with waiting for someone to "give you something". By working we are all giving something back and not just taking away a paycheck.
Here is the problem in a nutshell: You ask "what would I (a middle-aged white guy) do if I were a poor black kid?' You did not ask 'What would a poor black kid do?'
Basically, you assume that "poor black kids' read Forbes.
Seriously Mr. Marks. It's good that you defend your opinion that your article was not written to be taken out of context but perhaps it was written to generate talk, response, and what of course you knew would bring traffic by the boatloads to Forbes to read your walk in the shoes of a poor black kid.
As a journalist and now a teacher who teaches journalism I often tell my inner city students about the power of a headline. I'm sure if you had given this article a more tech title like "What Kids Need To Do Today To Succeed In The Future" or left off the poor black kid hook, the hits to this page wouldn't nearly top over half a million. I think you are a bit misconstrued as well when you mention in the article that these kids had the misfortune to be born two miles away. The way things are in society today it's a misfortune to bring any child into a world with such problems but saying that being born black is a misfortune is well…..well….downright politically incorrect!
Of course, I came here after seeing the printed article on the desk of a teacher and wanted to leave a comment. I am not going to blast you from here to kingdom come or provide an eloquent cursing out of your obvious inability to really understand what it means to be a poor kid regardless of race. Your suggestions are great but totally unrealistic. The tech tools are there but our children have to be able to read beyond a second grade level to use them. I have students in high school who unfortunately can't read. Watching Ted talks or viewing content from Khan Academy is wonderful but if they can't sit still for five minutes because they are suffering the affects of being crack babies, or having ADHD or just not wanting to be in school, no amount of technology is going to make them smarter. To get good grades they have to be able to academically meet the minimum grading standards. Can't do that if you have been passed along all your life and can't do basic math, write a complete sentence with subjects and verbs agreeing, or reading classic works of fiction, non-fiction, history texts, math word problems, etc. Then to add insult to injury you suggest they learn to write code.
I took everything you said with a small grain of salt as we tell them often the same thing about getting good grades and being self motivated. They can succeed and many do but we don't need to hear the solution from you. You don't need to go to a charter or a private, or any other magnet school to get a good education. I am black, but not poor, but grew up with many friends who were. We had no technology back then just pens, paper, and books. We didn't need magnet schools because the curriculum was structured to teach us the basics. None of this Whole Language and Mental or Everyday Math were part of how we learned to add, subtract, multiply, and divide. We learned phonics and how to diagram sentences. We graduated, went to high school, and many of us went on to college and earned degrees and are successful. Sometimes poverty itself drives one to want better regardless of peer pressure, support from home, or the color of one's skin. Don't be condescending in an elite middle-age, middle-class white man way and then say you were just saying what you would do IF you were a poor black kid.
I suggest our poor black kids invent a virtual reality game where people like you who have no idea of what it's really like to be poor in general are required to actually walk and live some time in the shoes of poor people, especially those that are black. I would recommend you become a seven year old black male living in West Philly's projects. You mother is a drug addict who has men come through your roach infested apartment like a revolving door. None of them are your daddy and most look at you with hate and disregard as they have sex with your mother in front of you. There is nothing to eat in your refrigerator and the stove broke months ago. Somebody beat you up and stole your winter coat so now you wear a hoodie sweatshirt as your protection from the cold. You have no boots and your sneakers have a hole in them so when you walk to school your socks get wet. Your only meals come from those served in school which right now have been reduced to pretty crappy but at least it's something. The older gang members keep harassing you to join the gang, deliver packages, and promise they will protect you and get you a coat. When you are in school you are too tired to pay attention because you haven't been able to get a good night's sleep because you are cold, the apartment is noisy, or you just stay up because. You don't read because you can't so you hope the teacher never calls on you to read aloud. She probably doesn't because so many of your classmates struggle with reading out loud too and it takes forever so you are asked to read silently and discussion will follow. You act out, fight, curse, etc. to hide your academic shortcomings. You get held back a couple of times in elementary school but by the time you turn 15 you've got to go.
Throughout the simulation make sure you ask your mama for a computer and internet access in the house. When you're in school fuss at the principal because your classroom doesn't have any computers and your class only goes to the school library or computer room once a quarter.
High school gives you the opportunity to cut class, hang out in the hiding places with friends, or just choose not to come to school at all. Make sure you ask your teacher if he/she has a copy of Cliffs Notes for whatever you're reading. Nothing like having a little help with understanding complicated texts and ideas. Oh, but you can't read so this is moot. Ask your teachers too about those online study tools and TED talks, and Khan Academy. Then pay close attention to the empty stare you'll get back because they don't have a clue these tools exist either. When you can make $4,000 in one afternoon on the corner selling drugs instead of spending seven hours in school, the money wins out. When teachers, counselors, parents, ministers, mentors, etc. tell you good grades are the key to your future and you have such potential you look at them like they're crazy because you see your future in the $4,000 stack in your pocket. Why spend time in boring classrooms when you can make more money in a day selling drugs than you'll make getting a job, paying taxes, and living a middle-class lifestyle. You drop out because a good business means you have to invest time. Heck, with money like that you can buy a middle-class lifestyle and still be part of the poverty stricken sub-culture. This is where you thrive. You do learn to use technology including GPS on iPads to track where your dealers are, financial statistics on your lucrative drug dealing business, one click access to your lawyer in case you get arrested, and a cadre of exploitative videos of women and girls who will do anything for the lure of a new hairdo and an outfit. You might still have interest in math and science and you might watch the Science Channel, National Geographic, and Mythbusters.
Now as an adult you might find out about TED or some of the lectures that are available online with professors from MIT teaching calculus and physics or psychology, or literature. Imagine, we can all get a MIT or Harvard education for free. We just won't get the paper degree but knowledge is power. You decide that your shorty is gonna be smarter than you so you plop him down at 4 in front of your computer because the brain can assimilate all kinds of things into the subconscious. He'll learn through osmosis.
You encourage other young poor black kids to go to school because the gangs don't want uneducated people working for them and neither do you. And every now and then when you get a shorty under your tutelage you have a flashback that once upon a time this was you.
This is but one scenario. In your case you need to run several simulations including:
1. Being a slave captured in Africa and brought and sold on the auction blocks in America. Working the fields, getting beat, having your family taken from you etc.
2. Growing up in the Jim Crow South in poverty and being a poor black sharecropper taking responsibility and caring for his family.
3. Being poor and white without a father and watching your mother struggle to make sure she does better for you.
This list could go on and on but until you actually are a poor black kid you can't even begin to try and visualize or think what you would do if you were really a poor black kid.
If you were a poor black kid like some of the students I have taught, you would get mad when you read this and want to find the person who wrote it and kick their ass.
When they remove the VR from your head it is only at this moment that can you really write such advise. I'm sure if you could really be a poor black kid this article would have a completely different slant. But then again, a poor black kid wouldn't be writing for Forbes.
Since you are inspired by words that get you to thinking, perhaps the best advice that can be given to you is to stop thinking altogether.
I agree that technology can be an important pathway out of poverty. My only complaint about your article is that you haven't a clue as to the effects of grinding poverty. We're you to live in that tragic circumstance that almost 50% of Americans now suffer, I think you might have a different perspective. At the same time, we'd have to remove your middle class acquired skills and knowledge. Then I'd love to see how motivated you'd be. I'm sure you are quite a nice man, lamentably, you know nothing about poverty and it's perverse effects.
You are commended for making it out of your situation. However, there are always exceptions to every rule. There will always be those who make it regardless of their circumstances. Do not confuse the issue here. We're talking about what it would take to rescue the average poor kid. Or any kid for that matter. I can relate to overcoming major obstacles to growing up poor. However, I hope to never take for granted the blessings I received along the way that made my escape possible. I will also never forget those around me who failed and why that may have happened.
I applaud Marks' essay, and wholeheartedly agree with what he says. Unfortunately, there are far too many Americans that wish to demonize "the white guy" for "knowing what's best for the poor black kid". Well, those that scream and shout can accuse Marks of being a racist and undermining the plight of the poor. What they don't like to face is that people like Marks want to see that poor black kid succeed. He does make it clear that poor blacks have a more difficult time because of their socioeconomic status and skin color. No one denies this. Those that disagree with him never mention what their solution is to get black kids out of the ghetto, now do they? None of these folks want to be told (by a white male) how they can succeed. They take "offense" at being given advise on how to use tools of technology to use it to their advantage. They don't want to hear it. It takes hard work and ingenuity plain and simple. Why should we not hold all races to the same standards? In the culture of poverty, "school ain't cool", and if you "act white" you are alienated from your ghetto peers. If you don't place a high value on education/good grades/hard work, you will be stuck in the poverty cycle. These folks that demonize Marks seem to think that the Federal Government owes them a living. Marks is right- there are PLENTY of opportunities out there. Ya just gotta get off your butt and onto the internet. Turn off MTV and tune in. This is 2012- stop blaming the 1%, the white man, the rich… Whatever happened to self reliance? Everyone seems to demand a handout these days. Has anyone ever heard of Roland Fryer here? Now this is a man whose opinion I would like to hear on this matter….
Just read this article- well said!
I went to college and the college I went to had more students than they could handle so I don't know where all of these "opportunities" are. I went to college and now I might qualify for the WIC program.
The census says that one out of two people are poor so therefore poor people are paying taxes for things they can't afford.
If you want to get into electronics, a 2 GHZ Oscilloscope can cost $28,000 dollars.
You can't make anything in this country because of a lot of the current laws.
Patent reform is needed because only the rich can afford patents. A kid in West Philadelphia can't afford $1,000 or $2,000 for a patent and you need lawyers because the patent system is broken.
The author should go live in West Philadelphia because if he owned a $28,000 oscilloscope, he wouldn't own it very long because the other people living there would steal it from him.
Technology is very expensive to learn. I went broke trying to start my own computer company and your skils can become obsolete in one or two years because that is how competitive it all is.
Holy crap you are pathetic. So people lash out at your stupid op ed, and now you want to act all butthurt about it? Of course technology can help underprivileged kids find greater opportunities, but how many underprivileged kids do you think actually have access to any of that? Less than you think, obviously. So now your feelings are hurt that nobody liked your shitty advice, boo hoo.
Your piece is not racist or misguided, it's the truth and I am right with you. Your piece hit home for me. My bio – Af Am female, born 1965, 2 parent household (one educated up to 8th grade, other thru 11h grad), North Philly native (now live in NJ), attended LP Hill gr. K-7,Strawberry Mansion gr 8, tested into Girls High but opted for HSES (was only school offering computer science at the time) Oh, forgot to tell you I researched these schools on my own at age 13 (no internet, just good old-fashioned brochures, signed up for the entrance exams, etc), graduated 2nd in class, attended Temple for entire senior year of high school, only child in family of 4 kids to attend college, offered several scholarships to college – chose RPI (Troy NY) but accepted was into MIT. ALL of this was possible because of doing EXTRA, having good teachers in my path, help from affirmative action policies,etc. It's all possible, and I have many friends who have done the same – engineers, scientists, top execs of Fortune 500, etc. My son and some of his friends, despite having many of the advantages of the majority, including parent tutoring from the womb, constant guidance, tools, good public and private schools, stimulating extra curricula, etc. JUST DON'T GET IT. We have let in some wicked things (ie. tv, video games) but w/ restrictions to wknds only. I'm hands on as an at-home mom by choice. There are many kids in North Philly and similar places that would run circles around my son because what he takes for granted, they would cherish. Thanks for the websites – heck, I was not familiar with a few of these. I will share them with my 'not a poor black child' son, and will make sure he incorporates them as tools. But will he continue to do so on his own? Jury's still out but…
I suppose that would be true if you had a guidance counselor who was paying attention and had the time to provide such support…and if you had the opportunity to study with your belly full of good and nutritious food, uninterrupted by everything that financial distress in a family can cause…and if you weren't concerned about your safety….and if you weren't in a society that treated you like a "problem" long before you EVER had a chance to do all of the things you suggest.
I think the problem is that your simplistic viewpoint continues to blame people based on their race and circumstances with very little insight to the societal infrastructure that creates the privilege you so enjoy (and apparently have enjoyed for generations). If you wish to understand, read a bit more. Read "The Warmth of Other Suns" and "The History of White People" to learn more about the realities of other people of all races who live in poverty.
Your technology may help many things and may even provide a way out of poverty for many people, but the fact is, you really don't know what you would do if you were a poor Black kid – I suspect you wouldn't know what to do if you were a poor dad trying to raise a kid. This is not an attack on you as a person, just a different perspective on the tunnel vision "solutions" that you describe in your article.
I feel it's easier to blame the poor Black kids for their situations than to point the finger at the "middle aged white guy" partly responsible for creating said situation. Got your attention? Great! I'll attempt to explain: The article seems to make the assumption that "poor Black kids" don't try to "get the best grades possible" ect. It says NOTHING about the realization that no matter the academic level you obtain there are MANY who will deny you fair opportunities BECAUSE you are Black. Period. If I were to write an article titled, "If I were a Middle-Class white Man", I'd state how I would ADMIT (and in some ways take responsibility for) the atrocities of my ancestors instead of DEMANDING persons of color simply, "get over it." NO amount of time will delete what happened or its impact on Blacks, whites,this country, or the world. I would further explain how I, as a middle- aged white man would need to honestly deal with my covert racism opposed to hiding behind socioeconomic status and trumped up data/numbers as a defense to why I and/or many of my white counterparts don't HIRE Blacks. It's EASY to tell Blacks what to do- hell, this is the type of relationship whites (and many Blacks) have become accustom, but how do you sell a product and don't HONESTLY believe in it's efficacy? I live in New Orleans where there there are SO many young Blacks here having graduated from college and even graduate school like they were TOLD to do their entire lives only to get to the "door of success" and be told their school of choice wasn't good enough! I contend this is a psychologically and emotionally damaging as seeing a "Whites Only sign when all you want is a cool drink on a hot day. School for many Blacks (particularly Black males) is often just another institution that serves as an invalidating, berating place that does little more than break the spirit and asserts the "white is superior" ideation (sort of like jail). Also, please note: whereas integration can force Blacks in to white schools, what it can't insure is the fair, equitable, honest treatment of Blacks by white (and others who maintain a covert bias) teachers, administration, and staff. If I were a white, middle-class man I would shake my sense of paternalism when it comes to Blacks as I would be forced to observe many Blacks don't feel as if my people or I do them many "favors". It may come off as being stated harshly, but if we want to HONESTLY dialogue, let the truth be told. There is much research that speaks to the large degree of mistrust Blacks have for whites. Said research also tends to show such mistrust is a major factor keeping Blacks from utilizing many available services (like mental health counseling) opposed to being "unaware" of their existence. Smiling in the face of whites and cursing them as they walked away is a conditioned behavior for many Blacks as it was necessary for safety at once. This behavior still continues, as Blacks understand they must forfeit speaking out to maintain. As I middle-aged white man I would have to do some soul searching and ask myself, "do I really understand the plight of Blacks in America? The world? When it hit me that I in fact didn't, I would actually take time to ASK POOR BLACK KIDS some questions, spend some time with them and their families, or even conduct empirical research before I stated what I would do as a poor Black kid with the thought process of a middle-aged white man. Please, misunderstand me not; I'm totally assuming your heart is in the right place with this writing- it's the simplicity of your ideas. I agree education is duly important for Black children having once been a denied right but the "achievement gap" existed before computers and the accompanying technology. This gap was explained by the PARENTS socioeconomic status, not the cognitive abilities of the child (which was rightfully noted in your writing). We need to get to the ROOT of this issue. We can't put a Band-Aid on a severed leg. Giving a computer to a 5th grader when they are underfed or homeless will prove ineffective, I assure you. It is my belief that if you want to help poor Black kids, employ their parents. Thanks for the interesting read sir, good luck, and pardon any typos! <3 *From a poor Black kid*
**Also not in NO way am I accusing you of being racist… :)
… please note in NO way am I accusing you of being racist… :) ( dang iPhone… Sorry about the typos! I'll reply using a desktop next time!)
Mr. Marks, you cannot imagine the effects of poverty… and what you would do is definitely informed by the experience of the privilege you have as a white male in this society, not the reality that of black poverty in America.
So if all of this was true, how did you garner admission to Stanford, and graduate? Was it an affirmative action hand-out diploma, or did you somehow figure out how to succeed in spite of your impoverished upbringing?
Sure, it 's not easy, but enough people scratch their way out of poverty to find success, that it provides ample proof that you have a good shot at it if you follow Gene's advice.
Gene. You get it. Unfortunately, you're laying the blame for the lack of success that most people face right where it belongs. And you're realizing that most people don't like to be reminded that their own shortcomings are the main reason for their plight in life.
It's much more fun to blame someone else for your own shoddy decisions.
the problem is you are a white man and have no idea what it is to be black. period.
Poor Black Kid from West Philadelphia Speaks out to Forbes Editor http://thesquabbleroom.blogspot.com/2011/12/poor-black-kid-from-philadelphia-speaks.html
Poor Black Kid from West Philadelphia Speaks out to Forbes Editor http://thesquabbleroom.blogspot.com/2011/12/poor-black-kid-from-philadelphia-speaks.html
Mr. Marks,
After reading your column, I'm still bewildered by the mindset that still pervades our society when it comes to race. For some, it may appear that we've made great strides when it comes to race relations in America. But I'm here to provide you with a little reality in this, the 21st century. Being from an all-white middle class gives you no credence to speak for a community that you have no ties to. If your parents, or in many from the Black community, PARENT is the sole provider for the family; the best case scenario is that the single-parent works a job struggling at making minimum wage. There may be other siblings in the household, so living conditions may not be the most ideal. In this case, the only item of technology in the home may be the television. Trying to make the best of the public education is impossible due to the fact that those who lead our education system are out of touch with the needs of our students. So, while we're trying to get our (black, red, brown, poor and underprivileged) students to pass state based testing that has nothing to do with real life application in the real world; these students fall further behind the economic, social and educational divide.
Whenever a young person in the lower rung of the ladder speaks of any future aspirations, society continues to promote either sports or entertainment. What happened to community investment from our corporations, civic and political leaders who talk a good game but show their hands with the balance sheet or the electoral vote? I'm reminded of the saying; "talk is cheap" and it is evident every day. Whether Black, Latino, Native, or even those profess to be Islamic, we have to always prove ourselves harder than many of our white counterparts. So, before you try to sympathize with the lives of others, get down in the trenches where we really live and then speak what you really know, not what you've assumed of others.
I wonder how much time you have spent personally trying to provide opportunities for poor black kids in West Philadelphia?
Are you personally assisting any "poor black kid(s)" in West Philadelphia?
Yes, we all see your thought process. The issue is most definitely how you framed this process. The article is incredibly imperialistic. You have no idea the barriers faced by a "poor black kid". Obviously some people are able to work hard and get out of a system of poverty, but it's not just as easy as "work hard, find useful tools." Who gave you the right to speak for a demographic that has long suffered from an oppressive culture – one that you've obviously benefitted from?
You could have framed this article differently and you'd have been OK. You need to actually listen to where all this backlash is coming from – it's not just internet raging. You are re-producing a system that makes it OK for privileged white men to tell others how to act. Even if black children "work hard", you still have this problem: The public school system in this country was created by white men, so white children tend to grow up with a better intuitive sense of how to act within the school system. Cultural understandings of how to act differ between race, ethnicity, gender, and class, and just assuming that everyone will have the same ability to "assimilate" to the system is offensive.
Why didn't your mom and dad turn off the TV, and demand quiet time so that you could do your homework?
Life of a black child in poverty (8 years old)
Wake up for school with last night's clothes on.
In the bathroom looking for a rag to wash my face.
Mom still in bed with her new boyfriend. Did she feed him the rest of the food?
Mom don't buy breakfast food because I'm suppose to eat breakfast in school.
I dig in the dirty clothes for a pair of pants and get dressed.
Before I go out the door, Mom appears to say have a good day in her house coat.
She locks the door behind me. I rush to school to eat breakfast.
During the day I can't concentrate on what the teacher is saying because I'm wondering will I be able to get in when I get home. Will her new boyfriend still be there? Will she cook today? More important, will I eat today? I'm working hard to stay out of the way of the neighborhood bully who teases me about my clothes and my shoes. I'm, working hard to be accepted by my peers. I want to laugh with them instead of having them laugh at me. Tell me again what I should be working towards? There is no one in my environment to tell me what I should be doing.
Schools out and I'm in no hurry to get home. Boys on the corner want to be my friend. Joe the bigger boy said I can ride his bike for while if I like but I would have to do him a favor and take this bag around the corner to Mr. Anthony. Wow, I was riding that bike for hours. Next time Joe said he would pay me for delivering because I do a good job. Maybe I will be able to save and buy a bike of my own. I'm home and Mom isn't here. I turn on the TV and cable is off. I look for food and there is none. I lay across my bed and fall asleep with my clothes on. And tomorrow is the same as today. Tell me again how am I suppose to succeed?
There are those who are destined to succeed and there are those who need a lot more than what you are offering.
You say the opportunity is there "If…if…if" Sorry Mr. Marks those are extremely big ifs. The access to technology is not as easy as you make it seem. How many poor, ghetto schools have you visited lately? How many single-parent, or grandparents raising children in the worst, godawful ghettos have you visited? Have you ever had to hold it and not go to the bathroom all day because the toilets in your school didn't work? Have you ever had to use mimeographed copies of books and share them with other students? Have you ever been so hungry you couldn't concentrate on what was in front of you much less figure out the wherewithal to find access to a computer. Sorry sir, but I think at worst you are delusional, at best simply naive.
AND, growing up in the ghetto you don't just get to say what YOU would DO. "If I were a poor black kid I would…" NO, Mr. Marks you cannot SAY what you WOULD do, simply because you would not have that kind of luxury or control no matter if you had the will. It takes a lot more than sheer will when you are poor and black because THOSE experiences are legion and will have a myriad of outcomes depending upon 1) your environment – i.e. how much you have to fight to survive on a daily basis, on down to dodging stray bullets; the presence of parent(s) in your life; the education level of your parent(s) or whomever is raising you, and whether or not they are substance abusers and/or generational welfare folks; whether they have jobs and can even afford to FEED you, much less encourage you to succeed or guide you. Yes, there are kids in the ghettos who can rise above, but they can do so because more often than not, SOMEBODY, whether another family member, a teacher, or somebody who just happened to care, stepped in and helped ensure that success.
I was one of those poor black kids Mr. Marks and I know that had my family not been intact when I was young, and had my mom and dad not had help from my grandparents, and aunts and uncles who took me out of the ghetto school and put my sisters and me into private Catholic schools, and led us to success by their examples, my outcome would be quite different from what it is now. Your article says that all it takes is "will" and "desire," and "good grades," and you mix those few ingredients up into a supposed tried and true recipe for success and tell us what you you would do if you were poor and black. Do you understand that "poor and black" is just the TIP of the iceberg? How about poor, black and born crack-addicted or with fetal alcohol syndrome? How about poor and black and born to a teenage mom who drank 40 ozs and smoked Kools when she was pregnant with you? How about being fed chips, candy and soda for breakfast? How about having to figure out how to make money to feed yourself and your brothers and sisters because your mom has checked out and dad is nowhere to be found? How about seeing drug dealing, prostitution, and learning how to dodge bullets when you're 4 or 5 years old?
The "poor and black" experience is not monolithic Mr Marks where one solution or "recipe" applies. It is varied and complex with nuances you couldn't even begin to dream about.
Unfortunately your article will only serve to perpetuate this simplistic notion believed all kinds of people, regardless of race, want to believe about the ability to "make it in America" – "you just have to have the desire and maybe a little luck." Try again. Along with "desire" and a "little luck" how about having all of the stars aligned in perfect symmetry, a permanent roof over your head, your own bed and not somebody's couch or floor, food on the table, access to "free" technology when you look like a scary ghetto denizen, or everyone's idea of a thug, and how about lining up some "angels" ready, willing and able to see past what you look like on the outside to the core within?
Oh, and one last question, where did you do your research and how many ghetto kids and ghetto dwellers did you interview for your article?
I hope you will use your experience to reach out and help others who don't know their options.
If Gene Marks was a poor Black kid, he wouldn't have a learning disability that makes accessing literary and print materials difficult, if not impossible. He wouldn't have any chronic health problems like asthma or diabetes, nor would anyone in his family, and he wouldn't be worried about getting beat up on the way to school for carrying too many books. He wouldn't have been abused as a child and had his brain flooded with cortisol, thereby limiting his hippocampus's capacity for memory for the rest of his life. He wouldn't speak English as a second language. He would have somehow had the language exposure from birth that middle class kids have, and not have had language delays or receptive and expressive language disorders – and therefore would not have been delayed in learning to read, and therefore would not have fallen behind his classmates, and therefore would not lose faith in his ability to succeed as a student. If Gene Marks was a poor Black kid, he wouldn't have any mental health problems like anxiety or depression that affect memory and concentration (despite living in poverty), and wouldn't have an emotional disorder that kept him out of class because he couldn't stop himself from throwing a temper tantrum. He wouldn't be in special education. If Gene Marks was a poor Black kid, he would have played with Black-skinned, curly-haired dolls and action figures as a child, and seen movies with Black heroes and he wouldn't see himself through the eyes of the majority culture. If Gene Marks was a poor Black kid, we wouldn't be having this discussion….
The issue isn't that your deduction above is terribly flawed, Gene. The issue that you overlook the massive obstacles that stand in the way of inner-city kids meeting those "if" prerequisites you list.
Where do you live at ? If you don't mind me asking and how old are you and do you have any children ?
What if you were a poor white kid? BTW, our country has more of them than the poor black ones.
Wow… you're my hero. Thank you for your comment.
Even your response to Ryan's comment shows how out of touch you are. He couldn't have put it any better and you still don't get it.
Mr. Gene Marks;
I know you were trying to say that just because a kid is black and poor does not mean they can't succeed. They have much more than just being poor to deal with. I am a middle class, middle aged white guy in small town Vermont. My town has quite its share of poverty and I am appalled at what little kids from poor families have to deal with these days. I think you should spend a year or 2 living "in the hood" and working at one of these inner city schools to help those kids learn about and use the technology in your piece. Then you would see its not so easy as you think. These kids are dealing with abuse, neglect, drug use, and hunger. I am sure you are a nice guy but you are way out of touch, as is most middle & upper class white America.
Life is only as fair as we make it.
What I do not understand is why did you have to be a black kid? There are black children in the middle class and poor white ones. It would have been better suited as an article for poor children in general because despite the color of their skin education will be their means to an end.
Here is the thing: you do make some good points. However you underestimate what these kids have to go through.
It's not as if all of them live in environments that allow you to study. In some places you could get killed for walking around with books under your arm pit.
Now, fair enough, if you want to get out of the hood, you gotta do whatever it takes.
However, your article presents a rather simplistic point of view.
The reason why many people are upset is that you don't fully grasp that reality.
Try this – turn of your heating for a week and eat only a sandwich, or two, a day for a week.
Then try doing your work as usual and be the best in your office/company.
Imagine that for the first 15 years of your life. Then come back with your advice.
You have presented a lot of valid points, it's just that you missed the practical side of things.
You haven't come across a racist guidance counsellor Mr. Marks.
Thank you for your well written response. I was outraged as I continued to read this article and so surprised that someone could be so clueless, with all due respect. I mean I think Mr. Author was very well intended, and that's great. But, do you know what it's like to be poor? You can't just wave a magic wand and become a computer expert. That made me so angry. You should really think about what you write before you put it out there on such a large scale level. People will think that if those lazy dark people just worked a little harder, they would succeed. I've worked hard and gotten good grades since the beginning of time and I'm still not out of Dodge! How dare you? I'm sorry, but your article made me ridiculously angry. Things aren't that simple. What people maybe really should do is become a mentor — go out there and help that kid instead of asking him to help himself, when obviously he can't b/c he doesn't know how (in many cases). It's kind of different when the responsibility is on you to help the people who really do have a disadvantage. (No, I'm not black. Yes, I am an informal mentor to a very young girl, and you know what? That's hard — it takes effort and time and organization and I'm not always perfect at it. But I'd like to make a difference in her life if I can.) I don't ask her to help herself. I help her until she can help herself. I think things would change if people could take a vested interest in the life of others, in a meaningful, invested, and heartfelt way.
Thank you Ryan! This was a powerfully written piece. You are very insightful.
Gene: You may believe that this is the land of opportunity, but it truly isn't.
I'm a woman of color who happens to have the benefit of a white husband. My two white sons are treated so differently than my black son.
Even when doing all the things that you suggest, I find that blacks are never afforded the opportunities that mediocre white students are afforded.
Not one word you say rings true to me as a 50 year old black woman who came out of foster care who also has the benefit of five white brothers.
You are promulgating a myth. The question becomes, why?
Just curious … aren't there actually more poor white kids or at least just as many? why didn't Mr. Marks address any comments to them? It's not like turning away from education is now or ever was a black thing — like lack of opportunity, it goes along with poverty. And prejudice. And believing what you hear on television, like: Things are getting better all the time. Meanwhile, the Rich and the Super Rich have been laughing all the way to the bank … for years.
The main problem I had was that Marks didn't seem to realize that poverty is a problem that transcends race. Where does poverty come form? Paul Krugman pointed out in a recent column that the incomes of the top 0.1% of all income earners in America went up 400% over the last 30 years — while everyone else got a 27% raise. It's more difficult to keep that idea out of circulation in the Internet Age — but not impossible. The tax breaks bought and paid for in the halls of Congress — tax breaks that can only be enjoyed by the wealthiest Americans — amount to robbing the rest of us blind. I guess a lot of people still think that's okay, or that only the robbers can create jobs in America … by exporting capital … to China, for example. Why shouldn't we try to amend the tax code so that "Neither any American taxpayer nor any organization doing business in America shall pay tax on his or its income at a rate less than the highest rate paid by any American taxpayer" … ? After that, the only argument would be over at what level, exactly the taxpaying onus would kick in this year fo keep the government solvent and retire the debt in an orderly manner. Warren Buffet thinks it is "ridiculous" that he pays tax on his income at half the rate paid by his secretary. You'd think so too — if you had any sense. Or any sense of fair play. Or maybe you should peruse The Tax Evaders Wall of Shame that was published in the Washington Times.
I doubt Mr. Marks has ever looked at the appalling history of lynch law documented case by case in the Wikipedia.
If I Were A Greedy White Amoral CEO…
I would, talk to my fellow Greedy White Amoral brethren about ethics, repent and change my ways.
I would pay my fair share of 35% income tax or more and not seek loopholes legal or otherwise.
I would not use my position to seek political favors.
And I WOULD NOT lose 1.2 Billion dollars.
Mr. Marks it goes way deeper than just being a poor black kid — believe me and I wasn't raised a poor black kid although I am black. I was raised in a middle class home in the suburbs of Chicago. My father was a Pullman Porter that made descent enough money that he could raise 5 kids and my mother didn't have to work. It's not you (it ain't personal Mr. Marks; its just the view and temperament of the whole doggone white community at large. It's ashamed we (black people) will have to go to their graves with having no great stories to tell about how after the 1965 Voting Rights Act; people really reached out and things did change. But, we're in America! She has her flaws.
Oh, please!! No one cares about you're "tough week". (Excuse the fact that I'm a month late) I refuse to feel bad about your personal attacks when you have blatantly undermined many of the experiences that poor black kids face on a daily basis. I encourage you to re-read this piece that you have written. Try your hardest to understand why people would even be slightly offended. I would like to go out on the limb and say that I believe you are a smart man. I want you to try your hardest, again, to seek out where you could have gone wrong with this piece.
Please do not take this challenge, and do ignore this comment, if you have only written this article to get attention. If that is not the case, then I would also like to challenge you to try and stay with one of these poor black kids for a week. If the opportunities are as plain and clear as make them seem, then I would like for you to write another piece validating your findings.
You have embarrassed yourself, your parents, your company, and the institutions you are affiliated with.
I would, however, like to congratulate you on creating a piece that "gets the people going". You've created a lot of traffic; and I'm sure Forbes would like to keep you on the team for that accomplishment alone. But your ignorance is too much to bare, and there will be an investigation on why you've made this choice to purposely ruin your career.
Thank you for your time,
I must say that i do not agree. I am a black female in the middle class and i am also still in high school. One would be surprised with how many kids in just my senior class have to drop out of school to help there parents make next months rent. My senior class started with 625 and is now down to only 524. Studying hard and reading is not effective if you're not in school and with a high school diploma This kind of perspective is exactly why nothing in this economy changes.
The problem isn't even the opportunities presented, race, location or anything like that. It's cultural and it's a lottery. A huge slap to the face is that some of the gifts people are born with aren't technical and therefore they make inferior serfs to whomever is writing checks these days. (Read: 1%) As many had stated many parents aren't aware of these programs, a lot of parents are under the assumption that ANY college education leads to job opportunities and many parents just don't CARE. They tend to have their own problems. I have a friend who's mother has a super well paying job at town hall and he has a degree in graphic design and I'd love to see him move out of her house sometime soon.
On the other hand. I grew up poor as hell, with a mother with bipolar disorder and a brother with autism. But I also live in suburban long island. With just that change I had so much at my disposal. I'd walk to the library with my brother at 11 years old and use their computers. I'd do that every day. It wasn't because I thought to myself "Hey one day computers will save me from this life of poverty" it was "Boy do I love computers". And never once did my mother ever sit me down to do my homework or give 2 turd flakes about my grades and so my grades were just slightly above average. The reason? I was having too much fun coding to care. And because I had to make my own money, I got manual labor jobs. So I spent a couple weeks learning G-code and now am pursuing a mechanical engineering degree. It pains me when I see my friends who can play guitar like gods, write compelling narratives, paint the concept of sadness, and I can't help but look at the tv and wish they were hiring these people. You know what will happen to them? They will graduate from community college with liberal arts/business degrees and get jobs elsewhere and make less money then me. Why? Because their gifts are different then mine. I'm the dweeb who's skills make me the perfect slave so that the children of the 1% can continue to never learning anything. The only people I've ever known to die of overdose were just bored rich kids.
Perhaps Sir, you should do research on how much better and better equipped technologically speaking schools in the middle and upper class school districts are….
Schools in inner city areas are often sub-standard. And it takes a caring guidance counselor to give a damn and help a child.
You really are an idealist aren't you? Either that, or you're incredibly blind…. There's a reason that exceptional teachers make the news or have their stories made into movies when facing the challenges of inner city students…. And there's a reason there's only a handful of them…
You're writing as if you were a poor black kid with YOUR background and knowledge.
If you took your present self, made yourself poor and black, and put yourself into the life of a present-day kid from West Philadelphia, this is the person you're imagining yourself being.
The reality is, you aren't and never have been a poor black kid from West Philadelphia.
If you grew up as a poor black kid in West Philadelphia, YOU WOULDN'T BE YOU.
Anyway, you will learn much more if you do not take the comments personally. They are attacking your views in your article.
It really doesn't matter if you had a "tough week." You need to take responsibility for the schtuff you wrote here. And the IMPACTS IT HAS on REAL PEOPLE.
I saw your point. I didn't grow up poor, but marriage to the wrong man (and more to the point a child with him) did send me into the financial problem direction very fast, as his commitment to support and the value of a good education was like his commitment to the marriage…
Where I part ways with your points though, even though I understand them, is placing all this sense of responsibility on these children that you have admitted even your children don't have, things even your children don't think of, and they live a much less stressful life. It is the PARENTS of these children you need to address, because it is not the child's job to get himself ahead and in life and draw the attention of those who can provide such opportunities to himself, it is his PARENTS' job!
To prevent being born poor from turning into a lifetive of a vicious cycle:
These are the options that parents can take if they are serious about getting their child a great future.
I needed more help than I had, but you will be surprised how even strangers are willing to help you when they see you are trying and not just set on maintaining your lowest common denominator.
People want to feel good all the time…he's talking about the typical future of a poor black child here, what is there to feel good about? When you feel good about something you are psychologically NOT motivated to do a darn thing to change it!
No, you don't have to know everything you just have to WANT BETTER FOR YOUR CHILD THAN YOU HAD FOR YOURSELF. Long as you have that want in your head as a parent you will get out there and figure out what you have to do to make it happen.
Again, if the parents have no ambitions for their child(ren)…only a rare lightning strike so to speak will allow that child to luck out and rise above the circumstance.
This article was distributed in my wife's all black school. It is getting around the black community and all of the feedback is not negative.
this article was distributed and discussed at my wife's West Philadelphia charter school, which happens to be an ALL BLACK SCHOOL (2 white students out of 500). All students in the first graduating class were admitted to 4-year universities. Something like 90% of them enrolled and are succeeding today at major universities. It is no accident that articles like this are distributed at an all black school that demonstrates a high level of success. Great work Mr. Marks. To all who think this is ignorance…OPEN YOUR EYES!
Ok NOW your article makes more sense. I was curious as to why you seemed to be stating that "poor black children" all live in West Philly. Perhaps the background for this piece should have been stated in the story.
I do agree w/you to a certain extent. Education is paramount. However, I was raised in a two parent home. My father worked f/t for a good company, my mother p/t. As an adult, I know now that there were times that they struggled hard to get by. I was a child that didn't have to study hard in elementary school and I was accepted into Masterman. Even then, I didn't take advantage of all of the opportunities that were given me but I still managed to do okay for myself. As some of the previous comments state, your intelligence doesn't always put you at the top. It can't hurt any, but oftentimes circumstances and being in the right place at the right time can make a person's future.
This is a very interesting point of view. I came to realize that if it were a black author that wrote this, a lot of the responses would have been different (yes, this is coming from a black woman).
Well sir, I'm not so sure that I agree with you. Basically What your saying is that there is no hope for the people from a poor neighborhood, that no matter how hard they work they will never be able to get into one of those private or magnet schools. That they should just give up now because there is absolutely no hope for them to get into a good school.
Sir, I'm not going to let that happen to me. I am going to put my heart and soul to get into the places I want to go. I don't agree to everything that man has written, but I do agree that some of these kids aren't doing anything to help their futures. I know because I'm only 14, and I used to walk the halls every day seeing my peers ignorantly wasting their time.
You said, and I quote, " It helps to be knowledgeable, it pays to be talented and it takes luck to be successful", but I say, it PAYS to be knowledgeable, It's a BLESSING to be talented, and it takes WORK to be successful. And if you think I'm being naive or ignorant, well that's you. But personally, I'd rather stay both of those things, because if I do, at least i know there's hope for me.
Thanks. From one poor kid to another, thank you for your understanding. I hear this same bs from liberal college professors that declare they understand what it's like to be poor. The problem with poverty is not about the amount of books you have in your house but not about having enough money!!! How can I focus on education when I don't have enough food to eat or hot water in my home? How can I focus on education when my parents are not involved in my life at all? These stupid solutions are ill thought and do not work. Annnnnd then you've got the ethnic thing, let's say I learn all these things and do all this crap and become some poor, black success story, let's say that happens. What happens when my smart ass encounters white racism? White people are not a liberal as they claim to be and when they encounter a black person that is much smarter than they are they often panic and do some of the oddest things. What would I tell the "poor black kid"? I would tell him never to listen to any advice from liberals that are trying to "help" him. The help they offer is not truly help but pity. Pity that would not see you rise above them or be on parity with them but just below them.
Have you considered the fact that while your "recipe" looks good on paper, the vast majority of "poor black kids" are too concerned about if they're going to be able to eat dinner that night as opposed to researching the best schools in their area. I was blessed enough to grow up right at the bottom of the "middle class" line, whilst i witnessed my friends from church and even some from my neighborhood begging to come to my parent's house simply because they knew they would be fed. And back then (the 90′s) computers were a luxury that even WE didn't have. Many of my peers had parents that didn't own vehicles and rode the bus or walked EVERYWHERE they went. So if they just so happened to have "stumbled" across some miraculous school that could change their lives, there was a guarantee it would NOT have been in our neighborhood, or the bus would take forever to get them to the other side of town. MOST of the teachers/guidance counselors were only concerned about keeping their own jobs, and very few of them went that extra mile for their students. If a student showed potential to be a very smart student, they were held on to in order to make the school look better. There was no, "Hey, you seem to be doing really well in your classes. I've got some information on a charter school that would suit you really well." NO… Besides, children can't apply to go to schools on their own (DUH) so a parent would have to do it for them. And before that parent would do it, they would have to be convinced. Which in an impoverished black family, every decision is made based on finances and ease, simply because there is not enough time in the day or money to be thrown away. If the child is going to school a mile away from home and there is not an unnaturally amount of paperwork to be completed (public school system) the parent is more likely to lean towards that option as opposed to applying to the school, applying for scholarships, submitting financial aid information, figuring out transportation (and if the child will be riding the bus, they have to learn the route, apply for a bus card, and pay for the card, which also costs money) for the EXCELLENT charter school on the other side of town. That's a sacrifice that is not up to the CHILDREN, but instead up to the parents. One that most inner city parents would be reluctant to make.
Like someone commented earlier, libraries only have so many computers, and not NEAR enough to fill the need of the inner city students. When you're there, you only have an hour (tops) to utilize a computer and only after your session is done you have to get back in line to wait to use it again. (Still goes on to this day) so until you know what actually goes on as a "poor black kid" i suggest you do more research before writing such an article. I understand your intentions were good, but please, it is so much more than that.
I am an international student who's here in the U.S purely for education. My family is still back where I came from. I study neuroscience. The only reason I am on this forum is my personal interest in sociology of this vast melting pot. The fact that I did not grow up here does as much in giving me objectivity as disqualifying me as a judge to situations like this one. I don't even speak your language that well, which I know you can already see. However, I have an open mind and would like to know how other people experience the world. Ryanc86 sir, your comment was an eye opener. Having a family that could provide enough credit history to let me get a loan to come study here, I'd categorize myself as being from the middle class as well, though a different country. It means I have to admit humbly that I did not know what it's like growing up like you did. It is truly admirable that you brought yourself that far, getting in a school I wanted to get in, and now providing level-headed other-side-of-story which helped people like me broaden our horizons. When I first read the article by Mr. Marks, I thought the "recipe" was relatively reasonable; this is a country where anything is possible as long as you work hard enough to deserve it, after all, or so I want to believe. But you brought up the point that there are in fact so many stress factors in poor kids' lives that even IF(I emphasize the "if") the technical resources are available to them, they would be too wound up by other aspects in their lives to use them. A seminar in developmental psychology that I attended addressed something similar: instability in home environment is correlated to pre-school childrens' concentration at school. May I attempt to suggest, therefore, that the real problem at hand is not how hard the poor black kids need to work (or in plainer words, how MUCH HARDER they have to try compared to middle class kids), but how much the government should help parents, guardians, or social services eliminate unstable home environments? That way, the differences between the inner city kids and those from the suburbs would be at least lessen. So Mr.Marks, your thoughts on how the youngsters from inner cities should work hard stand corrected, but maybe actually putting yourself in their shoes and take other factors of their lives into consideration will help with future assessments.
This is my first time making a comment about a domestic issue. And it is 9 months after the original was published, too. However, I wonder how my point of view is like in other readers' eyes. Please comment.
THANK YOU!!! EXACTLY what I was thinking/feeling as I read this.
'I still stick to what I wrote,'
Ah, the old 'screw the facts' line.
Mr. Marks – how does an inner city gets access to technology? Have you seen the state of technology available in inner city schools? Or at the lowest-of-the-economic-barrel homes? How do you get help from guidance counselors when they are either absent or tell you you will never be anything because you are Black or Puerto Rican or whatever? These are no exaggerations by the way.
Don't get me wrong, I believe the chances for upward mobility still exist, and that good grades are a necessary condition. But they are not sufficient. If you had dropped unrealistic suggestions like "use technology", your article would have had a more realistic feeling to it.
For a person in such poor conditions, usage of technology is a must to progress. But that is what I call a TBU: "true but useless". It is not an actionable piece of information.
It's almost like saying "get a job" to the unemployed, or telling Gilligan to eat something other than coconuts and fish. You can't simply tell the most dispossessed kids "to use technology". You might as well tell them to go eat cake!
Nope. Sorry. You're looking at an entire nation FILLED with college graduates who can't find work, and high school students who are competing for jobs with those who are massively overqualified.
While some of what you say MAY work for a TINY percentage of poor, disadvantaged kids, it is NOT a solution and in many ways is a disservice to those populations who struggle.
You are assuming that only the brightest, most driven, articulate and sophisticated kids MIGHT be able to overcome ENORMOUS challenges with the fortitude you DO NOT expect from regular upper and middle class folk. It's ridiculous.
I'm sorry, but I have seen with my own eyes what the old boys' networks have created, and let me tell you – it is NOT hard work. The children of the rich and connected get into amazing schools with mediocre grades. They are GIVEN positions they do NOT deserve. They go on to vote Republican and look down on the poor.
Think about those freaking BAILOUTS for chrissake. Did those CEOs and highly educated/supposedly intelligent, driven, talented executives make good decisions? NOPE. They ran crying to the government for a bailout and now they are looking down their noses at the great unwashed, as always.
Why don't you write an article about how THEY ought to work their assess off to save their companies – and avoid melting down the world's economic system – instead of insinuating that most poor kids just aren't trying hard enough?
Also – you DO know that the schools the poor attend are bare bones, with the worst teachers, facilities and most likely NO guidance counselors, yes?
Please go and spend time with actual poor families for a change instead of writing fairy tales.
Forbes, Mr. Marks….. Brilliantly written piece!!! I am a middle-aged black man, that does see the reality of opportunity in light of adversity, inequality and ignorance… Make sure some how not just the Forbes readers are privy to this enlightening article….. Once again Thank You Mr. Marks for sharing!!! (For sharing is caring!!!)
Yours is a great comment. The reality is that these kids cannot succeed, regardless of technology available, without human intervention… in the form of a capable parent, a teacher who takes them under their wing, or a mentoring program. As a former "poor kid," I can tell you that those same things were available to me as once of the poorest kids in the school districts I attended, but unless a parent or mentor points them out, or helps you shut out the day-to-day struggle in your own life, you'll never partake of them.
True which is what I wish was mentioned in this article. It would be lovely if instead of sitting back and looking down on people from their computers, people like Mr. Marks would take their message directly to the kids.
It is not always a lack of intelligence but a lack of people pushing them to do their best and realize that they're life doesn't have to lead to a dead end that keeps these kids from succeeding.
Good point. Which is why I frequently visited my alma mater to speak to the children about the opportunities, encourage them to apply to programs, and to move beyond their comfort zones.
So…when is the author going to lead a fundraising effort to purchase these computers and pay for the monthly internet service fees? And…are they going to sponsor computer classes to teach the children and their parents how to use them if they don't already know how? Who is going to transport them to and from these classes?
It should be that simple right?
Trixie, I agree with you 1000%. I grew up working class and was raised by grandparents who did not know how to push me academically. If it were not for my coaches and teachers, I would not know how to make sense of all the things available to me. Matter of fact, I would not have had to guts to believe those things could make a difference in my life.
It's not sharing. Sharing is providing something you have to people who don't have it. Marks tells "kids" how to get into a good high school so his target population is 10-12 years old. Since poor black kids elementary and middle grades children don't have much access to Forbes and wouldn't think to look search it for educational advice for individuals, there's not much chance of his words reaching people who might be able to benefit from them.
In my church, we call it "Preaching to the Choir."
Yeah speaking to them frequently is going to go a long way…not.
Human Intervention…thank you for understanding that a computer and extensive independent research and decision making cannot address the core of this "issue" Mr. Marks highlights.
darianlewis…brilliantly written?? …really??? …I do understand the importance of taking advantage of resources when they are presented to you, but many of these kids live within circumstances that don't allow them time to stay alive let alone take out time to take advantage of resources. And like someone else mentioned in these comments, love, adequate care, and support from a HUMAN is needed first and foremost before any MACHINE (technology).