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New iPad Gestures in iPhone SDK 3.2
9to5Mac continues its tradition of tearing through new iPhone 3.2 SDK for iPad betas, this time digging into beta 4 and finding:
In the gestures folder, you'll see two new types of commands (3Tap.plist and LongPress.plist) that are certainly not implemented in the current 3.1 iPhone SDK.
No idea what these mean yet, but if you were Apple, what would you use the triple tap and long press for? (Aside from morse code!)
There are 30 comments. Add yours.
I would use one of them to bring up something like Dashboard under OSX.
I know from a hands-on video demo of the iPad that I recently saw on youtube that if you do a "long-press" in Keynote it brings up a simulated laser pointer. Maybe this is what the "long-press" is. I am interested in the "rotate" commands. Is that for rotating photos? I did not see this feature in any hands-on videos as of yet.
You don't want to know what I'd use a triple tap and a long press for.
Multiple taps and long presses aren't exactly user friendly IMHO because of having to get the timing just right.
If I were an Apple I would implement multi-finger swipes as system wide gestures. For example a 3 finger swipe from the top of the iPhone screen down could 'pull down' the previous application you used, making it much easier to switch back and forth between apps without needing to implement full multitasking. A 3 finger swipe up the screen could bring up some kind of quick access dashboard with recent notifications, common settings like wifi & Bluetooth and a side scrolling/swipable list of recently used apps.
As you could see in the keynote in the powerpoint part, when you press long on a slide, you can change the order. Wouldn't be surprised if the new gestures are especially designed for iworks on the ipad.
I agree with MrC about the trippple tap, but a long press would not be an issue.
Love the app switching 3finger swipe though!!!
MrC I think there already is a 3 finger tap or something for the accessibility menu on the iPhone 3GS.
Isn't a "long press" what I do before I rearrange my icons on the iPhone?
Triple tap is way too much. And I think we already have the long press with icon rearrangement and copying/pasting.
@Carl: yes 3 home button taps brings up voice command on the 3GS, but personally I don't think that is very accessible!
Being about the only geek in the family I end up being family tech support (I'm sure many can relate) and watching some of the older generations struggle with just double clicks on a mouse I can see they would have a hard time with triple clicks/taps.
Even with long presses, how long should it be? With a shorter trigger time someone holding on to a tap might accidentally trigger the long press and not realize what is going on. Conversely a longer trigger time might lead people to give up holding down and think it is not working. It may seem trivial but for a company like Apple that sells to millions of consumers, one small wrong judgement could lead to a lot of support calls.
Do you suppose these uses of the human fingers are also patented?
@Drake: You think triple tap is much? Isn't that what everybody does when the iPhone slows down? Start tapping the snot out of it only to have several things fire at once?
The "some older people don't know" excuses have to go. Either one adapts, or one doesn't. It's true with vehicles, TV remotes, computers, touch keyboards, triple-taps, or whatever else.
Since when has technology ever waited for older generations to die off?
1) Wait until you're old(er) and your fine motor control isn't what it used to be...
2) What do you propose? If people can't adapt then what? Put them out of their misery????
Computers are supposed to make our lives easier. Apple, for all their other faults, are one of the few big companies actively trying to make computer devices easier and simpler to use.
I was using an Android device for a while, and when I went back to my iPhone, I had to stop myself from using the long press. It's effective and natural to me. I hope we get that for menus in the iPhone.
How old am I waiting to be? I'm 48 now... and I'm also the tech go-to person for all my friends and family. In addition, I provide materials and places they can go to ask questions and solve their own problems. if they don't want to learn, they'll be left behind. Tapping three times quickly isn't exclusive to any age group. Why do I keep reading over and over in these threads that grandma and grandpa are stupid?
If grandpa flew fighter jets in WWII, why can't he be expected to triple-tap on an iPad, for godssake?
My 78 year-old mom refuses to stop using VHS and learn new remotes. Should you and I be stuck with VHS because DVDs are too confusing for her, and remotes having 40 buttons for programming three different machines plugged into the TV is too complicated? She's not stupid... she just chooses not to adapt. So she simply won't be using any DVDs. period.
How many of these is Apple going to patent?
Sorry, I meant Vietnam, not WWII :|
@Mr C
A few straw man arguments.... War tends to necessitate changes in personal priorities (can everyone here fly fighter jets? If not, why not???), whereas video format changes do not. Maybe some people refuse to re-purchase their entire video collection when they see the current format they have works just fine and can pick up videos they like for a bargain in the old format. But that doesn't stop anyone else using newer formats.
The article poses the question of what these gestures could be used for and I gave an argument and example for the use of alternatives, that is all....
I think we can all agree. The bottom line is if you're old the only way you're going to learn a triple tap is to be shot twice in the chest and once in the face. Sarcasm.
Old, young, fat fingers, whatever... If you don't like a phone don't buy it. It's a free market baby, it's not like they're designing something that people are forced to use or can't live without.
The article poses the question of what these gestures could be used for and I gave an argument and example for the use of alternatives, that is all.
It certainly was not all. You suggested technology pamper a minority of elderly people.
Triple tap to toggle 3G
I want to triple tap all you guys alright.
Ya your mom is defenitly beyond stupid!!
And u and you too.
So hilarious, these three lobotomized bozos, who are of course one lonely, pitiable boneheaded . . .
It's effective and natural to me.
I presume you are using CS5 then as I cannot find the star tool or the ribbon brushes on CS2.


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subset: commoncrawl


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NORMAN — Though Oklahoma's baseball season ended last week in Baton Rouge, La., the honors continue to roll in for a couple of players highly responsible for the Sooners' NCAA postseason run.
Right-handed pitcher Jonathan Gray and first baseman Matt Oberste both added to their All-American accolades Wednesday.
Gray, who went 10-3 with a 1.63 earned run average, striking out 147 in 1261⁄3 innings, was named a first-team All-American by Baseball America. He had already been named a second-team All-American by Louisville Slugger.
Gray will very soon join the farm system of the Colorado Rockies, who made him the No. 3 overall pick in last week's draft.
Oberste became a second-team pick by Baseball America Wednesday. Louisville Slugger had already made him a third-team selection.
Oberste hit .373 with 19 doubles, 11 home runs and 60 RBIs. He's on his way to joining the farm system of the New York Mets, who made him the 206th overall pick in the draft, selecting him in the seventh round.
A couple of native Oklahomans — Gray is from Chandler and Oberste from Sallisaw — both stand a very good chance to add to their postseason haul when the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) announces its All-American teams in conjunction with the College World Series.


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Locals with questions or concerns about state government have a new place to turn for help.
Florida State Sen. John Legg opened the doors on his new district office recently.
Legg, a Republican, won a three-way primary race for the District 17 Florida Senate seat previously held by Jim Norman in August. The former state representative now serves people in communities as widespread as New Port Richey, Westchase, Lutz, Carrollwood, Trinity and Land O' Lakes.
The new district office is located at 262 Crystal Grove Blvd. in Lutz. It's open weekdays from 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. Staff members are available to help residents with their concerns or questions in person, by phone at 813-909-9919 and via email at email@example.com.
"We are excited to have our office open and are ready to serve and assist the citizens of Pasco and Hillsborough counties," Legg said in a media release. "Providing quality, prompt and excellent constituent service will and will always be one of our highest priorities."
Staffers Becky Zizzo and Tim Couet will man the office. Zizzo has eight years of experience working as a district executive secretary in the Florida House of Representatives. Couet joined Legg's staff from the Pasco County Sheriff's Office where he served as the community outreach manager and executive director of the Pasco Police Athletic League.
So what kinds of issues can the office help with?
"Any issues statewide we are happy to help with," Couet said.
Do you have any concerns about state government you'd like to bring up with the senator? Share your thoughts in the comments section.


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ELM CITY — You could smell the burned house from a block away – even after a hard rain.
All day Friday, people rode past to look at it. Elderly women stopped with church music playing in the car. Young men in baseball hats stood and stared at the wreckage. They left roses and Jesus candles on what remained of the front steps.
The young man they eulogized was Naquane Farmer, 28, who didn't make it out of the house when a propane heater caught fire in his room.
As a younger man, Farmer aspired to be a rapper. He liked to read and draw.
About two years ago, he broke his neck while break dancing, falling in the middle of a handspring.
For the rest of his short life, he rode in a motorized wheelchair, paralyzed from the neck down. Until the fire took him Tuesday, he inspired his neighbors in this blink-and-miss-it town just north of Wilson. You'd see him sitting in his driveway, face turned into the sun, enjoying a pretty day.
"He was always positive, always upbeat," said his neighbor, Russell. "Some days, he could make me feel a little bit guilty. It seemed like my little problems were bothering me more than his. If a person in a (wheel)chair is happier than you, you need to do some deep examination of your life."
I rode out to Elm City on Friday to try to make sense of these circumstances, to understand how a combination of break dancing and portable heaters could snuff out a life.
It sounds almost comical to say out loud: paralyzed in a break dancing accident. But it happens. I found this in The New York Times in 1984, the same year "Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo" came out:
" 'In the worst injury reported, Efrain Arreola, 25 years old, broke his neck trying a difficult stunt with no training,' said Nadine Filipiak, a spokesman for Saint Mary of Nazareth Hospital in Chicago. 'Mr. Arreola was left paralyzed after attempting a flip to a handstand, followed by a headspin.' "
There's more:
In 2009, The American Journal of Sports Medicine interviewed 40 professional break dancers and 104 amateurs who listed 1,665 injuries including thighbone fractures, slipped discs and concussions. Its authors concluded that break dancing is a potentially high-risk dancing sport.
Down East Wilson Street, where Farmer lived, every neighbor described him as friendly and untroubled by his accident, though he could only move his head.
No one nearby had known him for more than a year or two, and they couldn't say what Farmer had been like in earlier days. Clearly, though, just from glancing at his record, he'd had trouble as a younger man – even doing a short stint in prison for communicating threats.
I wish I'd found someone who knew him better. Both Farmer's mother and grandmother were injured in the fire, and you don't get much sense of people's lives by knocking on their neighbor's doors.
But Elm City is small enough to see every street inside of 10 minutes, from the rusty tin-roof houses to the 19th-century mansions. There's a basketball hoop in the street by Farmer's house and a white clapboard church with peeling paint called Everlasting Tabernacle – a building which leans slightly to the left. Farmer would have passed them every day in his chair.
It all looked familiar because over the years I've visited at least half a dozen houses where somebody died in a space-heater fire. The worst: two children in a mobile home outside Vass in Moore County.
I don't know the circumstances at Farmer's house, which was built in 1925. But often, these blazes break out in old houses where there's no furnace or ductwork, and a space heater makes inexpensive heat.
In the end, I didn't find any moral, lesson or glaring truth in Elm City.
I just stood in the rain at the charred doorway where a young man used to live, wished he'd had a better go at his short life and tipped my hat to eternity.
Shaffer: 919-829-4818


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There is no percentage in me, or anyone for that matter, criticizing you. And since you've effectively become America's conscience, it must be awfully hard to pause for a moment and examine your own. And I would never have become part of an attempt to make you do that if not for a classroom full of angry and disheartened college students.
With the hugely entertaining and highly effective "SiCKO" opening nationwide today, you probably think that dredging up and examining bits and pieces of your storied past is nothing but a petty, narrow-minded distraction. Since your op/ed piece (your post-documentary coinage) on the healthcare industry is a fantastic polemic and your best filmmaking by far, I almost agree with you. Almost.
But still I find myself taking a stand for the only smart and even-handed documentary that's been made ABOUT you, "Manufacturing Dissent." Many have argued that there's little or nothing new in this film, that it merely aggregates your alleged filmmaking crimes and misdemeanors. I guess this category of criticism, as summed up by Hillary Clinton's spokesman Philippe Reines in dismissing two recent books about her, has been called "cash for rehash." (Hey what's her campaign saying about "SiCKO?") The only problem is that the Canadian filmmakers don't stand to make much cash beyond recouping debt, and for many of your international fans, if far less so in media-mad America, the rehash is apparently revelatory.
I know you've heard I appear in the film pointing out the supreme irony that the installation of the Bush regime was somehow an essential ingredient for your ascent to superstardom and financial success. Let's be honest, the Clinton administration was an eight-year slog for you. Opposition is the bee's knees. But ironies aside, the majority of my "Manufacturing Dissent" screen time is spent extolling the virtues of "Roger & Me," the movie that brought us together, especially for its almost incalculable influence on the course of documentary filmmaking...which brings me back to the disgruntled students.
They were pissed off. Since I wasn't sure exactly what anyone would make of "Manufacturing Dissent" or whether it added up to a hill of beans, I screened a working version of the film for several of my film producing classes at the University of Texas at Austin. You'll be happy to know that here, like at many film schools, "Roger & Me" is embedded in the curriculum. When the students learned that you had in fact talked to Roger Smith more than once, it mattered deeply to them because they thought it undercut the entire premise of the film that launched your career. I admit not every single student was horrified by that revelation. The rest were more troubled by your inability to admit the truth eighteen years later. Frankly I was pretty thrilled to see that the current crop of university media hounds still cared passionately about the much cheapened and fungible notion of the truth. So we immediately made the film a class project before, during, and after the SXSW Film Festival.
And mysteriously an attack flyer showed up on campus about me. I don't blame the US Treasury Department, and I don't blame you. In fact in preparing our response, we asked ourselves the question "What would Mike do?" and quickly turned it into a promotional joke - leading some people to think we'd set it all up in the first place because, just possibly, that's also what Mike would do.
Did I know you had interviewed Roger Smith when "Roger & Me" caught lightning in a bottle back in 1989? No. Do I have any first-hand knowledge now that you covered it up? No. But do I fully and completely believe the testimony of people who were there with you in Flint and have absolutely nothing to gain by lying - eyewitnesses like Nader organizer James Musselman or even Roger Smith himself? Yes I do. And of all the answers you tried to give to explain this away - after starting with an all too typical ad hominem Fox News-style attack - I loved this one the most: "If I'd gotten an interview with him, why wouldn't I put it in the film?' Jeez Mike, I don't know; maybe because it would utterly destroy the structural essence of your one-man Don Quixote quest to get to GM's Chairman.
On your way to Cannes this year and continuing at your press conference there, you wondered out loud about why people haven't listened to you - the veritable visionary - all along, and insisted that you've now basically earned their belief in your infallibility.
I'm still in love with "Roger & Me.' But what is it that people were supposed to listen to in your 1989 message when GM had earnings of $5 billion rather than their current losses of $12.6 billion? Rather than asserting that the world's largest corporation was a giant about to fall, your movie argued that GM should have kept the factories open, and kept the union wages and health benefits flowing, because they had a kind of social contract with the community of Flint. What - so they could lose an additional $10 billion if in fact they'd even managed to stay in business? You utterly & completely missed the bigger story of America essentially abandoning and outsourcing all our manufacturing-based industries. And why shouldn't we since the fundamental engines of the economy are always changing. Are there any steel plants left in Pittsburgh?
As for "Bowling For Columbine," you NEVER advocate handgun control in that movie. You advocate a change in the violent, racist American character. Thus once again I'm not sure how you imagine your voice in the wilderness could've stopped school shootings or changed the VA Tech slaughter where the kid had two handguns, was obsessed with his media image, and was also certifiably unbalanced.
On Iraq, you were both right--and just about the first person this side of Noam Chomsky--to speak out publicly in the US - though not the world, or even Canada. Then of course in a fit of delusion, you took "Fahrenheit 9/11"'s blockbuster box office as a sign that you could personally alter the course of the 2004 election. Three years later, you conveniently describe that campaign as "the BEGINNING of the end" for Bush. But it looks like your ego got quite the better of you.
And that brings us back to the present. You're on the side of the fucking angels with "SiCKO" and no lapses, omissions or oversimplifications can detract from its contribution to the greater good. But please baby please, let the movie, which you have so beautifully made, do the talking.
"I think one movie can make a difference." You said this in the NY Times, and it's a beautiful sentiment. Of course there is little or no evidence to prove it. Spike Lee's astonishingly powerful Katrina documentary "When The Levees Broke" hasn't moved policy one inch. Several festival darling films about Darfur, not to mention George Clooney's millions, might have raised awareness, but haven't stopped China from buying oil from the Sudanese government. Forty years and nearly forty films into his legendary career, a documentary giant like Frederick Wiseman recently said, "Films never change anything."
But maybe they can for one person. Spike always credited Errol Morris for saving one man from a life in prison in "The Thin Blue Line." And you yourself have saved individual lives, past and present, by focussing on a specific person's health insurance crisis. Historically the national policy debate has been impacted by meticulously researched and passionately argued books like Rachel Carson's "The Silent Spring" or Ralph Nader's "Unsafe At Any Speed," not by your iconic infotainment or any filmmaking stunts. And yet, and still "SiCKO" has a great chance to galvanize debate. But this time the debate should not be about YOU.
In your own words, again in the NY Times: "I'm not doing this to market the film. First of all, I don't need to market my films. Every time I make a film, it breaks the last record. But I'm doing this because I really want to make a contribution to the national debate on this issue."
So get out of the damn way. But since your archnemesis George W. "The Anti-Christ" Bush makes only a cameo or two in the new movie, I doubt you'll be breaking the last record. But this time, everyone in America should see it.
John Pierson
ABOUT THE WRITER: A lifetime ago, John Pierson sold "Roger & Me" to Warners for the then unheard of sum of $3 million. Michael Moore is "Mike" in John's acclaimed 1996 book Spike, Mike, Slackers & Dykes; his name comes second, but his lengthy chapter was the first one written.
txfilm | April 28, 2011 5:24 AM
John's the man. Yall's a buncha bitches.
...and Mike clearly should have been honest about the interview, how can anyone argue against that? Serious flaming for a pretty respectful criticism.
UTFILMGUY2006 | March 13, 2009 8:33 AM
I'd like to start by saying that I was one of the students in John Pierson's Advanced Producing class to which he makes the claim "And I would never have become part of an attempt to make you do that if not for a classroom full of angry and disheartened college students."
That simply is not true. There were about fifteen of us in the class, many of us being close friends, and I can honestly speak for the vast majority of students because we regularly made our feelings towards John and the films clear both inside and outside of the classroom.
We only chose Manufacturing Dissent after watching many many many other films (none of which were very good, save The Pool by Chris Smith) and not really having a choice because it was getting pretty far along in the semester and we needed to have a film picked. John enticed us with his personal stake in the project and even persuaded us to pick it as he would easily be able to get it into SXSW and Sundance (we all believed if we picked this film we'd get to take a trip to Sundance)
Even with his connections, Sundance wouldn't touch it. And we didn't particularly like it. The people who'd made it were friends of Johns and he seemed pretty apt to get us to choose for our producing workshop or whatever it was. At one point, most of us passed on it, and we even went on to watching other movies before going back to MD because it was getting to be choosing time. So we "chose it" not because we were "angry" or "disheartened" but because it was there and it seemed to be controversial and could possibly get somewhere.
That said, most of us thought it was a very boring and the class that inherited it the next semester felt the same. We're all friends here at UT and word travels fast especially when it comes to John Pierson. Hes somewhat of a legend here in Austin but for all the wrong reasons. I'm not sure how much longer his stay will be welcome. Janet's great though.
triafra | October 9, 2008 9:19 AM
Open letter to Michael Moore (plus his friends, fans and supporters)
Mr. Moore,
My name is Chris Lowel and I'm pretty much a nobody in every sense of the word, but the few folks who bother reading anything at Moorewatch might know me by the endless rants I've posted there under the handle "biafra".
Moorewatch is where I'd been forever - what's the word - spewing the vilest, bitter, woefully hate-filled monologues against all and any (primarily non-American) visitor who's ever offered any (world)views deviating even mildly from the white, hetero, Xtian, right-wing, hard-line American Way, that is, until even the most die-hard Bush drones in charge there had had enough and decided to ban me from their site, Rightfully and even cosmically so, I've come to realize.
Relegated to silently sulking around online, I actually read your open letters to the people posted there, along with the usual snide responses and derision they invariably drew. Lastly, I took a look into the recently released "Slacker Uprising", which documents your past efforts to swing the vote.
During this time of "inaction", as it were, I've come around to thinking that you do perhaps indeed have God's ear - good karma, whatever the magic is called. Its on record that you saved the life(style) of a major detractor of yours, and then I, too, was recently stricken with a serious illness whilst eagerly adhering to his anti-welfare stance. I'm alive, but $50,000+ in debt.
Thing is, after their taking the helm, constantly encouraging me to take it easy and rest, praise the Lord, read the Bible and "just get some credit cards already" several people I'd long considered my closest friends and allies eventually abandoned me for greener pastures - literally. Four months of second-hand hardship in the form of my fretting over mounting debt exacerbated by unnecessary "conveniences" that amounted to nothing more than late fees and daily runs to Starbucks, was too much for some to bear. They "fixed" my books for me, and then booked.
Case in point: The neurosurgeon who saved my life gets all of $50/month for his efforts while that monthly Amex finance charge swallows $56/month. Oh, and that unused LA Fitness membership? A measly $42/month. I fixed that and other bondoggles, but its not enough to stave off bankruptcy. I've heard that once I'm in the "system", it won't get any better. The operation was successful, but the patient is dead.
Either way, Moore has done it again. And there's a larger point. A society that's not constantly fretting about how to pay for medical bills is a BETTER SOCIETY, and the "magic benefactor" can easily be a single-payer system that would cost less than we pay for health care now, and provide better quality service. Moore is a genius at finding real-world ways to illustrate his point of view. This is an excellent example.
Praise the Lord, indeed: I've come up with a simple idea to clearly illustrate what universal health care - truly caring for your neighbor - is all about.
"Slacker Uprising" has successfully created pre-election buzz, and to keep the ball rolling I suggest you add another dimension of punch to, repeat: demonstrate how free health care, and by extension, caring for your neighbor, works.
Race, creed, color, political leanings, religious beliefs - whoever the person in need, true humanists will always put all and any differences aside, step up and deliver. The haves must always come to the aid of the have-nots; until their vote makes it law, the good people will do so voluntarily and without reserve.
In these, the last few weeks leading to the most important election in modern times, I say post an online donation drive for me at www.michaelmoore.com, set up a counter to show the amount of donations made, the number of donators, and perhaps even a (voluntary) tally of which side of the fence they stand on.
Let's show those voters still on the fence how a new and improved nation will deliver on its promises, and how many are willing to lead by example, not just spout empty platitudes.
I have little use for opulence, living large, and, least of all, waste of any kind, so what I don't need to cover my bills I could, in turn, eventually pass on to the next person in need - hey, starting with the folks at Moorewatch.
What say you? Yeah? Or: HELL, YEAH !!
Proposal Two: Sign into law congressman John Conyer�s universal health-care legislation (HR676). �The Obama health plan is no good. The McCain health plan is really, really no good,� Moore said, explaining that on this issue, his support for Obama comes down to the �lesser of two evils.�
Proposal Five: Remove the $102,000 income cap on the social security tax. �If you make over 102,000 a year, do you realize the people in that category do not pay one dime on wages they earn over $102,000 ... Why shouldn�t they have to pay the same six-and-half to seven percent rate that you have to pay on 100 percent or your income?� Moore cited former presidential candidate Chris Dodd, who said that if the cap was lifted, the resulting income would be able to fund social security for 75 years. He also told the audience to remind their neighbors that President Bush wanted to �put social security in the hands of Wall Street five years ago ... We�d all be Lehman Brothers.�
triafra | October 9, 2008 9:18 AM
Open letter to Michael Moore (plus his friends, fans and supporters)
Mr. Moore,
My name is Chris Lowel and I'm pretty much a nobody in every sense of the word, but the few folks who bother reading anything at Moorewatch might know me by the endless rants I've posted there under the handle "biafra".
Moorewatch is where I'd been forever - what's the word - spewing the vilest, bitter, woefully hate-filled monologues against all and any (primarily non-American) visitor who's ever offered any (world)views deviating even mildly from the white, hetero, Xtian, right-wing, hard-line American Way, that is, until even the most die-hard Bush drones in charge there had had enough and decided to ban me from their site, Rightfully and even cosmically so, I've come to realize.
Relegated to silently sulking around online, I actually read your open letters to the people posted there, along with the usual snide responses and derision they invariably drew. Lastly, I took a look into the recently released "Slacker Uprising", which documents your past efforts to swing the vote.
During this time of "inaction", as it were, I've come around to thinking that you do perhaps indeed have God's ear - good karma, whatever the magic is called. Its on record that you saved the life(style) of a major detractor of yours, and then I, too, was recently stricken with a serious illness whilst eagerly adhering to his anti-welfare stance. I'm alive, but $50,000+ in debt.
Thing is, after their taking the helm, constantly encouraging me to take it easy and rest, praise the Lord, read the Bible and "just get some credit cards already" several people I'd long considered my closest friends and allies eventually abandoned me for greener pastures - literally. Four months of second-hand hardship in the form of my fretting over mounting debt exacerbated by unnecessary "conveniences" that amounted to nothing more than late fees and daily runs to Starbucks, was too much for some to bear. They "fixed" my books for me, and then booked.
Case in point: The neurosurgeon who saved my life gets all of $50/month for his efforts while that monthly Amex finance charge swallows $56/month. Oh, and that unused LA Fitness membership? A measly $42/month. I fixed that and other bondoggles, but its not enough to stave off bankruptcy. I've heard that once I'm in the "system", it won't get any better. The operation was successful, but the patient is dead.
Either way, Moore has done it again. And there's a larger point. A society that's not constantly fretting about how to pay for medical bills is a BETTER SOCIETY, and the "magic benefactor" can easily be a single-payer system that would cost less than we pay for health care now, and provide better quality service. Moore is a genius at finding real-world ways to illustrate his point of view. This is an excellent example.
Praise the Lord, indeed: I've come up with a simple idea to clearly illustrate what universal health care - truly caring for your neighbor - is all about.
"Slacker Uprising" has successfully created pre-election buzz, and to keep the ball rolling I suggest you add another dimension of punch to, repeat: demonstrate how free health care, and by extension, caring for your neighbor, works.
Race, creed, color, political leanings, religious beliefs - whoever the person in need, true humanists will always put all and any differences aside, step up and deliver. The haves must always come to the aid of the have-nots; until their vote makes it law, the good people will do so voluntarily and without reserve.
In these, the last few weeks leading to the most important election in modern times, I say post an online donation drive for me at www.michaelmoore.com, set up a counter to show the amount of donations made, the number of donators, and perhaps even a (voluntary) tally of which side of the fence they stand on.
Let's show those voters still on the fence how a new and improved nation will deliver on its promises, and how many are willing to lead by example, not just spout empty platitudes.
I have little use for opulence, living large, and, least of all, waste of any kind, so what I don't need to cover my bills I could, in turn, eventually pass on to the next person in need - hey, starting with the folks at Moorewatch.
What say you? Yeah? Or: HELL, YEAH !!
Proposal Two: Sign into law congressman John Conyer
fijijohn | July 24, 2007 10:18 AM
So here in the post-modern world, there is no truth. But there is always a motivating agenda which explains why anyone makes an argument?
I'm old fashioned, and I don't buy it. Rather than calling my criticism "strange and muddled," did you ever consider the bizarre possibility that I'm deeply ambivalent about Mike? That perhaps, after loving SiCKO, I'm trying to work things through myself?
The three acts of the letter were my attempt to engender debate on three different points. The first was the truth, or should I say facts, of his debut ROGER & ME. The second was the discrepancy between what message his films have purported to deliver and what they actually say. The third was whether documentaries, by Mike or anyone, do or don't change the world.
SiCKO, with a lot of pushing, will eventually just squeak by Al Gore to be the third top-grossing documentary ever. This is exciting. But on fire? Whatever. Certainly not to the investors in The Weinstein Co. But if you do the math, it's interesting that only about half of the five million followers on his email list will have gone to see it. What is their problem?
And one final go round on the question "who cares if he talked to Roger Smith?" Documentary standards are way different now than they were eighteen years ago, perhaps in large part because of...Michael Moore. But at the time ROGER & ME was released in Dec '89, there was a growing backlash against the film and its maker simply over the fact that the chronology of the massive layoffs was wrong - the friggin' CHRONOLOGY. Can you imagine how Mike might have been run out of town on a rail as a documentarian AT THAT TIME if it had become public knowledge that he did talk to Roger and also simulated a non-existent incident. It would've been a huge scandal.
Not any more.
girlsrockmovie | July 18, 2007 1:50 AM
It is interesting this email conversation is still going on, probably a testament to the passions an interesting filmmaker like Moore can provoke.
fijijohn, if you'll notice I pointed not just to his quotes about homosexuality, but more importantly to his sense that he's engaged in a cultural war. And where he stands in that cultural war. I don't stand in the way of anyone who interprets the bible in any way they see fit, though I suppose you could also read it to say a lot of things no reasonable folks follow literally anymore, but that's another argument (I already have a bible, thank you). My problem is with the stance both you and Westfall have that all you are interested in is "The Truth". Well, I can't quite put my finger on the motivation for your rather strange and muddled criticism of Moore, but Westfall's sense that he's in a cultural war is pretty clear. And that's pertinent, especially since every comment about Moore by the Right involves a qualification like "distorting the truth to push his liberal agenda". I think as long as we're asking how facts and truth can be distorted by agendas, we should just be aware where everyone stands.
michael westfall | July 17, 2007 1:37 AM
girlsrockmovie & bugmenot, our site, which is followed by thousands of people, is not a gay bashing site. That said, we make no apologies for being people of faith. The Bible is the only measure to determine what should be the correct stand on homosexuality and every other issue of importance. If you do not own a Bible I will see that you get one. Let me know, my e-mail is at the bottom.
God loves the homosexual but does not approve of the sin of homosexuality. Both the Old and New Testaments speak clearly on this. If you are sincerely interested in our position on homosexuality please check out No hate speech and no compromise at http://michaelwestfall.tripod.com/id28.html
Rev. Kirby, who writes for our site, wrote it.
Fijijohn, it is interesting that this discussion is still going on.
I think we may be having a meeting of the minds on some points. Hopefully you, and others, are beginning to get a better picture that there is much more to the Flint story. I do appreciate your communicative skills in particular. I agree with your comments that Manufacturing Dissent did show how modern day celebrity has unfortunately, in some cases, replaced true leadership. I spent my entire working life as a liberal involved in social issues so I understand the passion of those people on your site. Some of them have a lot to offer but just need to be redirected so they can learn to think for themselves.
All the best,
Michael Westfall
fijijohn | July 16, 2007 5:51 AM
Why am I still reading these comments?
Hey "girlsrockmovie," way back on june 29 (above) "bugmenot" already provided all the links to demonstrate that Mike Westfall is no friend of gay people. And as I asked half a month ago, what does that have to do with whether Michael Moore did or didn't have an encounter, or two, with Roger Smith?
Mr Westfall's much larger points about who was there at the grassroots political organizing level working hard in Flint to hold GM accountable in the mid/late 80's is far more relevant. Obviously I certainly wasn't anywhere close, but Moore, Musselman, Nader & Westfall all seem to have played a role. The only one of these who essentially claims to have been the ONLY voice of opposition, as portrayed in Roger & Me, is Michael Moore.
And even if Mike Westfall can't see his way clear, Manufacturing Disssent does a good job of showing how modern-day celebrity has replaced true leadership and asking just exactly who we all want to place our faith in as a leader.
girlsrockmovie | July 16, 2007 4:42 AM
Some of Michael Westfall's "documented truth" and "historical fact" that somehow don't "prop up" his opinions. Just thought since everyone's trying to expose everyone's "real" motives here, it'd be nice to know a little about Mr. Westfall:
"On homosexuality, the one-man, one-woman nuclear family has throughout millennia been the cornerstone of civilized society. For UAW officials to support those who practice homosexuality over the profound disapproval and disgust of their members, who live in Judeo-Christian families, is a direct dereliction of duty. To suggest that such convoluted morality is the Word of God is blasphemy. Those who practice homosexuality have nothing to do with labor."
Obviously, there's no "political agenda" involved here on either side. I'm glad everyone's interested only in "the truth". And not, you know, a cultural war or anything...
parisrampro | July 9, 2007 7:26 AM
And as long as we are putting together next semesters reading list for the UT Austin film student, add the Irish essayist and satirist Jonathan Swift to the required curriculum. As a nation, we should worry about the next graduating class of UT Austin!
parisrampro | July 9, 2007 7:15 AM
And, of course, Paine and Franklin were always being accused of talking bullshit and making lies because it sold pamphlets, broadsheets, leaflets and books -- in other words, what they were selling. That doesn't change anything and doesn't make them more or less suspect in their arguments, political satire, or essays.
parisrampro | July 9, 2007 7:08 AM
I think there is a lesson for the students at UT Austin here. There are many different kinds and shades of "documentary" and two of the most popular and successful filmmakers working in this genre today do not follow the shallow rules that most people spout out as "golden".
The two filmmakers I reference are Moore and Errol Morris. Both are essentially essayists and feel no particular obligation to "show both sides of the issue" or "interview the opposition," so to speak. And good god I am grateful for that because how dreadful would that be. Benjamin Franklin never felt the obligation to practice "balanced and objective" journalism. Either did Mark Twain, Thomas Paine, Edward R. Morrow, or H.L Mencken (the sage of Baltimore). And they were some of the greatest political writers of our history. And no less controversial than Michael Moore!
So, I hope the students of UT Austin will learn something in all this -- it sounds like they need a good education.
blue collar | July 5, 2007 12:25 PM
I will give you that Moore is a joker but working class ... never.
Rewriting history and ignoring glaring documented facts to make them fit the story line in Manufacturing Dissent was dishonest. Transferring the workers efforts to others and downplaying their contributions because you don
peggygorm | July 5, 2007 6:26 AM
Excuse me - a prime example of why to preview before you post - The truth is rarely pure and never simple.
peggygorm | July 5, 2007 5:59 AM
The truth is rarely plain and never simple.
peggygorm | July 5, 2007 1:59 AM
Michael Moore comes from a tradition of agitprop and political theater. He is not a documentarian except as a means to his end; he is an activist. He aims his message not only at an audience that would sit through Frederick Wiseman doc, but, at that most underrated and condescended to audience, the American working class. Michael Moore has the audacity to believe that a working class audience can handle a film with a liberal or even much farther left leaning agenda. Unlike a lot of filmmakers (at all budget levels), who can see American workers only as benighted conservative yahoos (the stereotype has moved very little since JOE for most), Moore speaks to his audience with humor, intelligence and directness. He addresses their issues in their voice.
Also how nice that someone says that the Emperor (Republican or Democrat) is stark naked. In a tradition that has a long history (court jesters and Abbie Hoffman come to mind), Moore plays the clown to tell the truth about the King. He is the pin in the Man's balloon.
In these self important times, the truly serious know that playing the joker is often the way to undermine the miasma of corruption and meaningless jargon (on all sides) that pervades all of public life and discourse. Since the right exploits the working class and the left condescends to them or pities them, the most apt speaker of truth for our times just might be a very shrewd working class joker.
blue collar | July 5, 2007 1:05 AM
What a bunch of Johnny come lately biased elitists.
So you are going to slam the actual documented workers who were doing the activist work back in Flint because you don't agree with their politics?
It is interesting that what is said here is that Westfall wasn't a consultant yet the producers spent a day at his home interviewing him, went over his archived material and included him in the film along with valuable ongoing clips of his various worker events. Could the real issue be that Westfall wrote an accurate piece condeming the movie Manufacturing Dissent because it didn't give a fig for the truth of the real story or the workers? That is most likely the case.
Check out.. Roseanne Barr's link
dubiousdoubter | July 4, 2007 11:01 AM
Dear Mr. Pierson,
I am truly sorry for my earlier post. I think I just had too much coffee this morning. I wish you and your family the best. Seriously.
fijijohn | July 4, 2007 7:45 AM
Holy cow. And a happy Independence Day to you too. So if I answer, it triggers more of this. And if I don't, there might be like one person in Namibia who takes this bombardment seriously. So what do I do?
Haven't been a rep in a long time actually, but deeply treasure friendships with filmmakers I backed. So let's do it this way. The book is called Spike (for Spike Lee), Mike (that's obvious), Slackers (Richard Linklater, Kevin Smith) & Dykes, and I've been in close touch with Spike, Kevin & Rick this week. Spike is excited about the Knicks Zach Randolph trade, Kevin got an iPhone, and sadly my Austin neighbor Linklater is not having his annual 4th of July fireworks today. As for the Dykes, Christine Vachon asked me to write the foreword for her recent book, and you just reminded me to drop Rose Troche & Guin Turner a line. Oh and I think we've had them all to Austin at least once, if not twice, in the last year. One title character is noticeably missing. But the invitation is open.
As for the previous post about inaccuracies in the book, I may hate myself for writing this but please do give me some examples. There have now been three editions, each one corrected to the best of my ability. But one day there may be a fourth - another opportunity to make it even more accurate.
dubiousdoubter | July 4, 2007 6:15 AM
Laudable Laughfest
Dear People,
Oh, the irony of it all. It's really quite amusing to read a letter which questions the integrity of a filmmaker of Michael Moore's caliber, written by a man, John Pierson, who's own integrity is highly suspect...in the least!
It may be true that Mr. Moore uses questionable techniques in order to get his point across, but is this immoral or unethical? Perhaps. Does he use these techniques to include and exclude information for the purpose of manipulation? Perhaps. Is he a narcissistic, egomaniacal windbag guilty of shameless self promotion? Perhaps. But what of Mr. Pierson?
A cursory glance at his resume will show you that Mr. Pierson is most often credited as a �Producer�s Rep�. Well, what is a Producer�s Rep, exactly? Well, they are a lot of things and they wear many hats, but essentially, they are middlemen who stand at the crux between art (the filmmaker) and commerce (the studio, distributor etc�). It is a position that holds a certain amount of weight and requires a certain amount of gravitas, a position that frequently often requires that its holder, lie, cheat, beg, borrow, and steal. It is a position that demands duplicity, as that is par for the course in this business of show.
The Independent film business has always been a hotbed of the shallow and the craven and Mr. Pierson has often been at the center of this circus of grotesquerie. His reputation as a vein and venal opportunist precedes him, wherever and whenever he enters a festival room.
If you do a little research, look at his history, question those whom he has represented, you will quickly see a pattern start to emerge.
The landscape of Mr. Pierson's history is littered with the bodies of those whose films he has badmouthed, including some they he later came to represent.He has always been known as the guy to walk away from if you see him coming your way, "Oh no, it's Pierson. We're fucked", as one successful filmmaker recently said to me.
If you take a look at his filmography, you will see that he once repped such indie classics, as "Crumb" and "Go Fish", but that was long time ago. [A PORTION OF THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY indieWIRE, WHICH HAS CONTACTED THE REGISTERED USER WHO POSTED IT.] Why don't we ask John about his relationships with all the filmmakers he's worked with in the past? Is he in still in touch with, friendly with, on speaking terms with any of them? I would gladly supply you with their personal email addresses so that you can ask them yourself, but that would be an invasion of their privacy. However, you should consider this question, why doesn't anyone want to work with John Pierson?
Pierson implores Moore to let "the movie do the talking" and accuses of him of letting his ego get the "better of him". Well, that's fucking hysterical. A filmmaker with a big ego? There's a big shocker! Speaking of ego's�
I always find it ironic when documentarians go to some third world country with their first world equipment to document the atrocities of their existence under the guise of shining a light on or bringing attention to their plight. It's laughable. If they really gave even one shit about the people they have chosen to document, they would put down their camera's and microphones, pawn that equipment, and use that money along with the rest of their budget to truly help these individuals. But they think it�s more important to make their movie than to actually do anything about it. This is not true of all documentarians (Mr. Moore's personal contributions to his causes are well documented), mind you, but it is certainly true of Mr. Pierson. His idea of "help" is to bring "happiness" to the indigent (no pun intended) by showing them B Movies in a rundown theater? That's fucking priceless.
Perhaps you should think twice about moralizing when your own behavior has been, shall I say, less than perfect. Hmm...less than perfect? Nah, too easy. How about reprehensible?
Hollywood Agent
quill33 | July 4, 2007 4:13 AM
Dear Mr. Pierson,
You were confronted on your book tour promoting Spike/Mike on more than one occasion. The most common complaint made by those who dared to question your "authority" amongst the sycophants was about the widely-known inaccuracies in your book. You were not merely nor exclusively accused of simply "exaggerating" events, but you were called a "liar" by more than one reader and at more than one signing. Your reaction to their comments was ALWAYS the same as far as the three readings I attended. Your response, the "Write your own books if you don't like mine." line was repeated at all three events. So, what's my point?
My point is this. Your own response to the criticisms about the inaccuracies in Spike/Mike is a perfect example of how to skirt an issue. If you were truly concerned about the truth, why not start at home? You have never (as far as I am aware) addressed any of the questions regarding the accuracy of your own work. In fact, you admit to it in your last post, your response, "write a book of you own", is not an answer, it is a polite way of saying, "I don't care what you think". Well, why not? How come you have yet to answer the questions about those inaccuracies (questions that I will not repeat here due to time and space constraints) of which you are quite aware?
It appears that you have taken our own advice or you have at least done so by proxy as someone promoting a film questioning the motives and tactics of Mr. Moore. The only difference is that a film was made in lieu of a book.
What if you approached Mr. Moore at a reading of one of his bestsellers and said, "Michael, there appear to be some inaccuracies in Roger & Me" and he responded, "Well, if you don't like my movie, maybe you should make a movie of your own" Would that answer suffice? I don't think so.
fijijohn | July 3, 2007 9:01 AM
With SiCKO, it is because it's not just on the left; it's on the side of the angels - and also highly entertaining. Let's fan whatever box office flames are there since every American should see this film.
Here at the end of the TrackBack trail, it seems like multi-posters psmith, bruhrabbit and bugmenot were a bit like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego repeatedly going into the fiery furnace for their beliefs and coming out unsinged.
Here's the thing about raking me over the hot ad hominem coals. I can't find any "specious personal attacks" in my letter. Not one. And truly, if you can find one student who feels that I've "foisted upon" them, I will resign my teaching post instantly.
A little bit of factual clean-up before we all move on with our lives:
1. Mike Westfall was absolutely NOT a consultant on Manufacturing Dissent. He was an invaluable source of footage showing Mike & Roger in dialogue.
2. I did not make Manufacturing Dissent, I am not a filmmaker, nor have I ever had black tape over my mouth.
3. The second Mike/Roger encounter was at GM's January 1988 gala at the Waldorf-Astoria. Since Roger & Me was already underway by February 1987, we can certainly agree that it was still underway a year later.
4. The cost of a good education at UT for a Texas resident is extremely modest - one reason it's a pleasure to teach here.
5. I do not have, nor did I write anywhere above, a single "allegation" about how Mike has treated me. Fair and square. Same for me, I hope. But all these riding his coattails contentions aside, I honestly do believe that, at least in some small way, I helped him earn his initial national fame...and fortune.
6. I have never claimed that I'm either cool or important. The filmmakers ALWAYS come first. But it's true that years ago on book tour, I did encourage people to write their own books if they didn't like mine.
In closing, one final thought about Mike always being on the right side. If Al Gore was in the White House, we would not be in Iraq, the Supreme Court would not have shifted to the right indefinitely, and An Inconvenient Truth would not have won an Oscar. One of these two people supported Gore in 2000: a) Moore b) Pierson. Who was it?
rick caine | July 3, 2007 3:51 AM
What if the guy who is the most widely viewed and most popular documentary filmmaker in history also turns out to be one of the biggest bullshitters? Does that undermine his credibility and therefore thwart the impact of his arguments? Do we care, or is it just about selling movie tickets? What to do with someone who has wrapped himself in the cause so thoroughly that it is impossible to seperate his film marketing from the cause? Is it acceptable to engage in some of the deceptions Moore has used to spread his message? I'm still wondering myself maybe that's why Manufacturing Dissent strikes such a nerve and sells out whenever it screens. Betsy A. McLane is right, doc history is littered with fakers and flim-flam artists, but this is not what we should be celebrating and emulating. Can you imagine if the journalism community decided to put Jason Blair and Stephen Glass on pedestals instead of drumming them out of the business? How about if booksellers decided to rally around James Frey? I have no problem with Michael Moore's causes (of course the US as one of the most affluent countries on earth should have universal health care to provide essential medical care for the least amongt us, of course something should be done about US gun crazy culture that sacrifices over 30,000 American citizens a year to firearms deaths, and of course a company posting record profits has an obligation to the community which allows it to prosper) it's how he gets there, his technique, his method, is what is examined in our film. I hope you get a chance to see it and you can decide for yourself how you feel about it. Allow me to quote Michael Moore from Manufacturing Dissent wherein at a press conference at the 1989 Toronto International Film Festival he was asked what kind of techniques are acceptable for a documentary filmmaker to use when making a doc. His answer: "I think you can do anything you want, use any technique you want, as long as you tell the truth." Does the truth matter, shoud it? Or is falling on the right side of an issue good enough? Please discuss.
alpha zebra | July 2, 2007 10:19 AM
What bothers me about the attention Pierson's getting is that he's trying to tie himself to Michael Moore's coattails, rather than going out himself and doing a piece (documentary, hit piece, comedy, whatever) on a major issue. Posing with black tape over your mouth, as if somehow Michael Moore had the power to silence you in any way, shape, or form, is just ludricrous.
Say what you will about Moore, at least he focuses on issues of substance - the devastation experienced by an entire region of this nation by plant closings and outsourcing, the impact of America's firearms laws and culture, the lengths to which politicians will manufacture a story to rally America to a war, and now the adverse impact for-profit insurance companies have had on America's health care system.
Moore is still a little guy (a man with a net wealth of a few million is still a little guy compared to the health care and pharmaceutical behemoths, or even the personal wealth of a Dick Cheney or a Condoleeza Rice) going after giants. Pierson is an opportunist going after a little guy who's garnered himself notoriety for going after the big guys.
Put another way, if you don't like what Moore's saying or how he's saying it, you can simply not pay to see the movie or buy the DVD, or you can change the channel. The powerful people and corporations Moore has gone after don't give their victims that choice. As for whatever allegations you have about how Moore has treated you, you should be well aware that as a celebrity he has people coming at him all the time - some with honorable intentions, some to con or fleece or exploit him, and some, unfortunately, who are mentally unbalanced and may do harm. In the circles of celebrity, nobody has forgotten about Rebecca Shaeffer, or the con man who bilked quite a few famous Hollywood types out of millions and millions. Frankly, if I were Michael Moore, I'd blow you off directly, as someone who was looking to sponge fame off someone famous rather than earn it himself.
John, if you really are a filmmaker and you think Moore is wrong, pick an issue he's gone after and take the opposite view. Do a comedy in defense of the NRA, or the health care industry, or Bush, or corporate downsizing. Come to the defense of these poor, put-upon mega-corporations, or these politicians who hold the strings of power in their hands. If you have a problem with the message, find the testicular fortitude to take a real stand and back it up. Put your pro-Bush doc up againt Fahrenheit 9/11 and accept the results of the court of public opinion (and box office). As it is, you're going after the messenger, and not to put to too fine a point on it, but whether or not this is your intent, it smells like petty jealousy.
documentarydiva | July 2, 2007 8:19 AM
This lively, though terribly insular debate is most heartening. It proves that arguments about documentary form & content are as vital & viscous as they have always been. Poking behind the screen to discover facts & "truths" is the best way for audiences to become informed about any filmed subject. We can all acknowledge the marketing magic of "Mike" as extraordinary in the modern documentary world. (Although Ken Burns deserves props here too.) And I must confess that some of the easiest money I ever made was working for WB on the Oscar campaign of ROGER & ME. The fact that Mr. Moore raises public discourse about important subjects & about documentary itself good for all of us. The fact that others challenge his work is even better.
Jonathan, ever quietly erudite, Miller's above post puts it best, and I would leave it at that, but for one thing. The fact that Mr. Peirson is moved to this investigation by his teaching experience is also heartening. (What forces of ego are involved I can only speculate.) To say, as some do in their comments, that to make a film is much more important than to teach about film is ridiculous. True, I have often been a teacher, only seldom a filmmaker, but a teacher reaches people directly and often very forcefully. If the criterion of effectiveness is to create change then our teachers, who do that every day in millions upon millions of ways, rate far more attention than documentary filmmakers. I hope Mr. Moore makes a film about the scandalous ways the US treats its teachers--from kindergarten through graduate school.
And remember guys--you are only following in the greatest of documentary ego traditions. Flaherty & Grierson started this debate among fact, art, ethics and the purpose of the documentary over 70 years ago. Read the history and figure out where, if, you fit in.
Betsy A. McLane
girlsrockmovie | July 2, 2007 7:16 AM
This is all pretty funny...especially since Pierson asks what motives Michael Moore has, and what he expects to happen as a result of his films. I would ask the same thing of Pierson--what did you expect this open letter to accomplish? Honestly, it's somewhat incomprehensible. You say in your comment that you want people to discuss Moore's politics, and yet you give a good part of your letter over to implying Moore is a liar. It's hard to imagine an "open" letter as passive aggressive, but I think you've managed to achieve the feat.
Also somewhat comical to criticize a guy for having a big ego and letting his stories be about himself, considering the last film you produced was a documentary about yourself. Covering the all important issue of trying to set up a movie theater on an island. Powerful stuff.
I also think its funny that your students were so mortified about Moore's manipulations. Anyone who really thinks Moore makes honest-to-god documentaries--I've got a bridge named Borat to sell you. It's best to think of his films as exactly what they are, political agitprop satire. The fact that he crosses ethical lines is distressing, but those ethical lines are all in the films themselves. No need to dig up conservative wingnuts to imply the Moore conspiracy. The moment Moore beat up on a barely cognizant Charlton Heston in "Bowling for Columbine", any barely cognizant filmgoer should have some idea of what he's up to. It reminds me of the big expose book Albert Goldman wrote about John Lennon where he reveals that Lennon was...a drug addict! Really?! Maybe that's why he wrote the song "Cold Turkey"?
I agree with Pierson that there's much to argue about with Moore, and much that he does that works against his own politics. But to start the conversation with specious personal attacks which he foists upon his poor students rather than taking full responsibility seems somewhat counterproductive. Just what are you trying to say, Mr. Pierson?
Finally, for a guy who's been in the biz as long as Pierson has, I'm blown away that he would say Sicko didn't catch fire on its opening. It averaged more than $10,000 per screen on 440 screens! Second only to Ratatouille! More than Die Hard! Sure, that's no Farenheit 911, but nothing else ever will be. At no point was Bowling for Columbine at that many theaters and making $10,000 per screen, as a point of reference.
Ultimately, Moore cuts a wide swath across our cinematic and political landscape, and whatever policy changes he effects or doesn't, he's an undeniable force. I don't think Bob Dylan (did you know that Bob Dylan isn't his actual name?!!?!?) actually changed the world when he sang "Masters of War", but does that mean he should've closed down shop?
psmith | July 2, 2007 6:35 AM
"Does anyone out there care to post something on the more expansive issue of what Mike thinks his films are saying, what he hopes to achieve with them, and whether they accomplish anything on a practical policy level?"
Why not just read one of the dozens of interviews he's given? Isn't it obvious that he wants change and that he thinks his films might be catalysts for that? It seems clear that Pierson has an issue with quantifiable results with the "accomplish anything on a practical policy level" comment. Does that mean that Pierson would suggest Moore simply disappear from the discussion altogether? What would this "accomplishment" look like? As for "catching fire," I'm a little surprised by the bandwagon-jumping by Pierson to dismiss the financial success of the film based on what is essentially three days of viewings in less than 900 theaters. "Bowling for Columbine" didn't hit its highest weekend gross until its fifth week. Does that mean it didn't "catch fire" either?
psmith | July 2, 2007 6:17 AM
Two things:
1) "John Pierson, who is arguably the coolest guy in American Indie filmmaking..."
Huh? How's that? Based on what criteria? And what exactly does being "cool" have to do with a damn thing? If you really want to have a "real debate," maybe the place to start is by avoiding high school fawning over who's the "coolest" person in the room, as if that lends any credibility whatsoever to the discussion.
2) "this ignorant, drive by internet character assissination you are currently engaging in." Wow, now that's funny, given the tone of the piece that we're all commenting on. I suppose Pierson's own intentions and motives shouldn't be critiqued even though that's what he's doing to Moore?
indie-guy | July 2, 2007 6:01 AM
Pierson's attitude is ironic given that his book is similarly riddled with omissions and exaggerations, solely to make the case that he is somehow the most important person in indie film history. And when anyone would complain, his stock response was to say that anyone who objected should write their own book.
rick caine | July 2, 2007 4:50 AM
Just for the record, John Pierson, who is arguably the coolest guy in American Indie filmmaking, has no financial interest in Manufacturing Dissent. He stated his motive and interest in our film which is linked to his student's interest. Don't we all wish we had a prof like this when we were in school? And although you haven't seen our film it hasn't stopped you from commenting on it. It would be helpful if you just slightly better informed then we could have a real debate as opposed this ignorant, drive by internet character assissination you are currently engaging in.
bruhrabbit | July 2, 2007 3:26 AM
no because none of us have that kind of hubris
marcycordero49 | July 2, 2007 3:26 AM
I would like to know John Pierson's financial stake in the success of Manufacturing Dissent, and whether this open letter--and other extensive PR efforts he's conducting on its behalf--are an effort to create buzz with a bottom line for himself. The mediocre documentary has poor word of mouth, and bleak distribution opportunities. Its rather sad that Pierson has sunk to this.
fijijohn | July 2, 2007 3:09 AM
It's been an interesting weekend where I'm sad to report, self-promotion ansd spinning aside, SiCKO did not really catch fire.
Many of the comments above have been rather insular. Does anyone out there care to post something on the more expansive issue of what Mike thinks his films are saying, what he hopes to achieve with them, and whether they accomplish anything on a practical policy level?
bruhrabbit | July 2, 2007 2:07 AM
if self promotion is a sin then I guess every film maker is going to hell
mr.frisbie | July 1, 2007 2:43 AM
What a shame. One shameless self-promoter wrapping himself in the flag hounding another.
jonathan miller | July 1, 2007 1:10 AM
I think the two sides of this debate (if one can call it a debate), are about -
what is the relationship the filmmaker wants to have [or should have?] with his or her audience
To be respected for the persuasive demonstration of his/her intelligence and perceptiveness?
(and cleverness)
Or to be respected for showing faith in the intelligence and perceptiveness of the audience?
galeninjapan | June 30, 2007 8:16 AM
Bush's reputation has been going down the toilet for the past few years and yet he hasn't commented about Moore...
acephotony | June 30, 2007 7:34 AM
Why is it important? Are you kidding? It's crucial for documentary filmmakers (and everyone, frankly) to care about, debate and regularly reassess what the line is to draw when fabricating or staging things in a non-fiction film. It's actually a really interesting and relevant discussion. Lost interviews that may or may not exist aside, cutting a scene to make it look like the mic was purposely turned off when it wasn't, crosses that line, in my opinion.
bruhrabbit | June 30, 2007 7:05 AM
Again- why is this important other than as a way to avoid the subject matter of what Moore is talking? Seriously- it's only important for the purposes of the cult of personality that exists in this country. Let's deconstruct moore because it's easier than dealing with healthcare.
marshwiggle | June 30, 2007 7:02 AM
It's seems you're all neglecting to address what, to me, was the most shocking thing in Manufacturing Dissent - not just that Moore left an interview on the cutting room floor, but that he faked the famous climactic moment where he finally gets to speak to Roger Smith at a shareholder's meeting and his mic is cut off. According to Jim Musselman, Moore actually did speak to Smith at that meeting (the transcripts were printed in Premiere Magazine), but he shot that footage of him getting cut off separately, then spliced it in to Roger & Me, to make it look like he had been cut off. This is what Smith responds to in MD, saying "We never cut him off; that's not our style". Smith says he never responded to Roger & Me because the press was so bad that his advisers told him it was better to simply not respond. That isn't stupidity, it's the same strategy practiced by Bush and Moore, as well. Bush has never personally responded to Fahrenheit 9/11 because it looks better if he simply ignores it like it's not worthy of comment. And, in the same way, Moore declines comment on Manufacturing Dissent by saying he hasn't seen it. Yeah, right - I find it hard to believe that someone with an ego as supersized as Moore's would not watch a movie that's all about him - he just figures, like Smith did before him, that it's better to simply not respond.
bugmenot | June 30, 2007 5:36 AM
[Bush's reputation has been going down the toilet for the past few years and yet he hasn't commented about Moore...]
No, but plenty of Republican outlets have moved to comment (including the president's father). Apples and oranges.
It is a huge sticking point for me. Moore allegedly secures a lengthy sit-down interview with Roger Smith during production; he dares to magic the interview into thin air; and General Motors miss a grand opportunity to smash his reputation to bits.
In Manufacturing Dissent, Melnyk and Caine also charge Moore with twisting remarks made by President Bush during the annual Alfred Smith memorial dinner out of context. In Fahrenheit 9/11, Bush quips:
"This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite - I call you my base."
Bush was only joking, it is pointed out, yet Moore would have his viewers believe Bush was appealing to a wealthy elite.
But if Moore was attempting to play the scene straight, why did he not mute or remove the laughter that followed Bush's remarks? One can clearly observe people laughing in the clip he used. Moore's actual point, simply made, is that many a true word is spoken in jest.
Hope you don't mind having your own opinions and theories tested. I have found several good arguments elsewhere, and I'm regurgitating them.
bugmenot | June 30, 2007 5:32 AM
[I can answer that. In the film Manufacturing Dissent, Rick and Debbie called Roger Smith and asked him this very question. His answer was that he didn't feel a threat from Moore.]
Not even when GM's reputation was going down the toilet, and fast?
Roger & Me made an impact. No denying it.
bugmenot | June 30, 2007 5:24 AM
I'm taking these arguments as I find them. Let's test them further. Can you kindly provide verifiable evidence as per Roger & Me production date/second interview? I find it most difficult to accept your explanation that "gigantic corporations" were, well, just plain dumb in 1989. Corporations have been under attack for decades.[1] There are literally hundreds of books on many different topics. If this interview occurred, I'm inclined to believe General Motors would have had something to say about it (and 'bamboozled' Roger Smith, a lot sooner). That's not unreasonable, is it?
Mike Westfall says he worked with Debbie Melnyk and Rick Caine for the best part of a year. They visited his home and the University of Michigan to examine his archived material. Much of the worker stock footage in the film belongs to Westfall.[2] The relevance is made clear in this sentence:
"Michael Moore was my guest at GM stockholders' meetings before his "Roger and Me" movie. At these stockholders meetings our blue-collar activists would confront Roger Smith on the issues that Moore would come to declare as his solo issues."[3]
I'm not smearing this person (or anyone else). I find him genuinely repulsive. Examine his work and see if you don't come to a different conclusion.
[1] http://tinyurl.com/j6hcy
[2] http://tinyurl.com/2n9hvo
[3] http://tinyurl.com/34dfv8
galeninjapan | June 30, 2007 5:04 AM
"Moore also dismisses rumours of a mysterious second interview, positing that if he truly had secured an interview with Roger Smith during production, then attempted to keep the footage a secret, General Motors would have publicized news of the interview throughout the media to discredit him. But they did not. (Perhaps they were in on the conspiracy.)"
I can answer that. In the film Manufacturing Dissent, Rick and Debbie called Roger Smith and asked him this very question. His answer was that he didn't feel a threat from Moore. If I was a multi billion dollar company I wouldn't care about some lowly filmmaker either.
psmith | June 30, 2007 4:46 AM
Why don't YOU get out of the damn way, Pierson, and quit reminding everyone about your past ties to people who still matter. Go tell your "angry" undergrads some more war stories that will pump your ego back up.
bruhrabbit | June 30, 2007 4:29 AM
If your students are getting angry at Moore about a documentary done back in the day, then no offense, but you should have questioned your student's priorities. With outsourcing, the Iraqi War, global warming, the healthcare crisis, indeed the cost of their education, the squeezing of the middle class and multiple other issues- this is what they choose to get angry at? Again, to me sounds like wrong priorities. At the end of the day- who cares. Was the documentary on the whole right as to its concerns over the effects of globalization? If your answer is "yes" then this is a little like arguing over the music Nero played as Rome burned. Or to put another way- this is like how the press in 2004 would equate a minor mistake by Kerry with a big one by Bush. It's been called the false equivalency approach. Let's conceed he may have made errors. I don't see how that changes the main point of the stories he's telling. I say this as someone who understand Moore himself is probably not a nice guy or someone I would want to know personally, but then I don't need to know him to like his work for what it is- entertainment with a social bent meant to start a dialogue.
fijijohn | June 30, 2007 2:47 AM
I made a vow to let the film community debate what I've written without interceding. But every rule has an exception, and "bugmenot" has made it a practice to post similar items elsewhere.
So here we go, for the last time I hope. When did the shooting of Roger & Me begin? Well experienced documentarians Kevin Rafferty and Anne Bohlen went to Flint to help Mike get started in February, 1987. You could look it up. Nothing mysterious about the second Smith interview. It happened in 1988 as per Jim Musselman. I myself had always made the argument that GM surely would not have failed to publicize these encounters, but Roger Smith actually speaks to that point in Manufacturing Dissent. In a nutshell, gigantic corporations were a lot dumber in disregarding their critics in 1989 than they are now. Strategic stupidity, not conspiracy.
In many ways, Mike Westfall does seem to be a loose cannon - no disrespect Mr. Westfall - was not a consultant, and is not even interviewed in the movie. And for that reason, I did not mention his name. But even if he is a gay basher, he did eyewitness Mike talking to Roger and I'm not really sure what one has to do with the other - assuming we're not on Fox News. But you'll notice in my letter, I do invoke the name of the exemplary Jim Musselman, a true mensch with nothing to gain who now runs a socially progressive small record label. He's gonna be a lot harder for you to smear. Oh and I also cite the aforementioned co-star of the movie, the guy who's "missing" from the empty chair on the poster, Roger Smith. He's long retired and still doesn't quite seem to know what hit him.
Gotta go. Almost time for Mike on Larry King.
bugmenot | June 30, 2007 1:29 AM
[When the students learned that you had in fact talked to Roger Smith more than once, it mattered deeply to them because they thought it undercut the entire premise of the film...]
Michael Moore says this early confrontation occurred in 1987, several months before he committed himself to making Roger & Me. Other sources corroborate this, noting that during production, Roger Smith was unreceptive and declined repeated requests to be interviewed. So Moore obtained the original footage of his earlier encounter and for a time considered including it in his movie, before eventually rejecting the idea. (To this extent the footage ended up on the cutting room floor.)
Moore also dismisses rumours of a mysterious second interview, positing that if he truly had secured an interview with Roger Smith during production, then attempted to keep the footage a secret, General Motors would have publicized news of the interview throughout the media to discredit him. But they did not. (Perhaps they were in on the conspiracy.)
[And mysteriously an attack flyer showed up on campus about me.]
Michael Moore's secret agents - they're everywhere!
[I fully and completely believe the testimony of people who were there with you in Flint and have absolutely nothing to gain by lying...]
Michael Westfall helped Moore get into the GM conference hall to confront Smith before his Roger movie. Westfall also served as a consultant for Manufacturing Dissent (along with truth teller Jim Kenefick). Alas, Westfall spends a considerable amount of time on FreeRepublic.com bashing homosexuals and .... people who promote the "homosexual agenda" like Michael Moore. According to Westfall, it is going to take Jesus Christ to stop liberals like Moore! Check out his website if you do not believe me.
Shame on you for believing people like Michael Westfall over Michael Moore.
[1] http://tinyurl.com/2ef335
[2] http://tinyurl.com/2etmhm
dbblock | June 29, 2007 9:56 AM
Interesting read, John, as always. No, films don't change policy but they do change hearts and minds (remember that one? - certainly turned my head around about war). My daughter was 15 when she saw The Corporation and came out of it determined never to work for one. She was 16 when she saw An Inconvenient Truth and shortly after decided to major in Environmental Studies, with an eye for doing policy work down the road.
Not sure what MM's agenda really is, I imagine it's a mix. Generally speaking, if you make docs purely with the goal of changing the world, you'll come away frustrated (and likely debt-ridden). But that doesn't mean you're not making a huge impact.


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Thursday, December 09, 2004
MIAMI (OHIO) (5-2, 0-0 MAC) at VALPARAISO (3-3, 0-0 Mid-Con)
WHEN: Saturday, December 11, 2004, 2:05 p.m. CST.
WHERE: Athletics-Recreation Center (5,000), Valparaiso, Ind.
RADIO: WVUR (95.1-FM, Valparaiso). Andrew Stem and Ron Caster broadcasting. Also available on the web at www.valpo.edu/athletics.
TV: Tape Delay. Comcast Cablevision Local Access. Dick Harlan and Paul Curtis broadcasting. The game will air on Dec. 16 at 7 p.m. and Dec. 17 at 12 p.m.
THE COACHES: Valparaiso is led by Keith Freeman, who is in his 17th season of coaching, and 11th with the Crusaders. He is 307-168 overall and 178-121 at Valpo. Miami is led by Maria Fantanarosa, who is 115-92 in her 8th season overall and 108-72 in her 7th season with the RedHawks.
SERIES RECORD: Miami leads the all-time series 5-0. The RedHawks won the only other meeting at the ARC, 77-74 in overtime, during the 2001-2002 season.
LAST MEETING: Miami defeated Valparaiso 83-71 on December 30, 2003 at Millett Hall in Oxford, Ohio. Jenna Stangler recorded a double-double for the Crusaders with 24 points and ten rebounds, while Kathryn Knoester added 14 points. Kim Lancaster led Miami with 21 points, while Colleen Day added 20 points and 14 boards.
Valparaiso will look to defeat Miami (Ohio) for the first time in school history on Saturday afternoon as the Crusaders put their two-game winning streak on the line against the RedHawks. This marks the sixth meeting all-time between the two schools, and the fifth straight year they have met on the hardwood.
DIALING LONG DISTANCE: After making just 14 three-pointers in their first five games, the Crusaders caught fire on Wednesday, making a school-record 17 treys. Valpo shot 54.8% (17-of-31) from beyond the arc.
MYERS DRAINS SEVEN THREES, ONE OFF SCHOOL MARK: Carrie Myers had made just seven career three-point field goals prior to converting seven times against Central Michigan. The seven triples in a game was one off of Lynda Kukla's and Suzie Hammel's single game mark of eight. Myers finished the game with a career-high 23 points.
BECHTOLD STEPS UP BIG: The shortest player on the team (5'4") filled some of the biggest shoes on Wednesday. Lauren Bechtold made her fourth career start and scored a career-high 17 points, including 5-of-8 shooting from three-point range. The junior point guard also dished out a career-best seven assists.
DOUBLE TROUBLE: Jenna Stangler leads the team in scoring averaging 17.3 points per game. The senior forward has tallied double-figures in each of her first six games this season. The double-figure streak is extended to eight straight games including the last two in 2003-2004. She has tallied 20 or more points twice already this year.
CRUSADERS TAKE CARE OF BASKETBALL: The Crusaders are averaging just 11.5 turnover per game. Valpo leads the Mid-Con in fewest turnovers per game.
NUMBER 300 FOR FREEMAN: Saturday's game versus Miami marks the 300th game Keith Freeman has coached at Valpo. He has posted a 178-121 record in 11 seasons with the Crusaders.
MIAMI NOTES: Miami enters today's game 5-2 on the season after defeating Butler 73-62 Wednesday night on the road. The RedHawks jumped out to a 14-point halftime advantage on the way to the victory.
The RedHawks earned their first postseason berth last year when they advanced to the Second Round of the WNIT. Miami was picked to win its third straight Mid-American Conference East Division title this season.
Cindi Merrill leads the RedHawks offensively. The junior guard is averaging 15.7 points per game after pouring in 22 against Butler. She is also grabbing 6.3 rebounds per game. Amanda Jackson is the only other RedHawk averaging in double figures, posting 11.9 points per game. Laura Markwood leads Miami in rebounding with 6.7 boards per night.
Today marks the second of four straight road games for Miami. The RedHawks will travel to Seton Hall next Saturday before concluding the road trip at Manhattan.
Copyright ©2014 Valparaiso University Athletics. All Rights Reserved.


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David Grossman is the author of two books of journalism, several children's books, a play, and six novels, including Be My Knife and his latest essay collection, Death as a Way of Life: Ten Years After Oslo. He lives in Jerusalem.
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A slightly delayed, but yet still informative version of the award.
Tonight, the New Jersey Devils got blown out by the Los Angeles Kings 6-1 in Game 6 for the Kings won the 2012 Stanley Cup. This recap goes into the many ways how terrible the Devils were in this...
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Stanley Cup Final Game 5 Thread - Delaying the Inevitable? Also a teaser from today's Q&A with Murray and Boudreau
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To get a lean look, many men are working out in a room full of women doing The Bar Method.
The workout is not new. It was developed by a dancer in the 1950's, but recently men started to show up at classes.
Maika Manrin, co-owner of The Bar Method in downtown Seattle, says she now notices an increase in the number of men taking her classes.
"Well they're walking by and they see a class full of beautiful women working out, they want to know what's going on in here," said Manrin. "So the smart ones come here."
Tri-athlete Clint Patterson takes the class.
"There are moments during the workout when I'm like, I want to stop," said Patterson.
That's saying something. Patterson has completed five Ironman triathlons. He says because of The Bar Method, he's stronger now at 42 than he was at 22.
"I feel like I'm in the best shape I've been in my life," he said. "I'm faster than I've been before. I'm faster running. I'm faster on the bike."
The Bar Method co-owner Bev Currier says it gets men flexible, too.
"A lot of men that come in here. It's like, ask them to touch their toes, they can't touch them," she said. "It's a one hour workout. They can get the strength and the flexibility in one hour."
With weights, a ballet bar and balls, it's a workout that can make a grown man wince.
And Patterson agrees. "It's tough."
Related links:
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I have a JVC KW-AVX710 7 inch CD/DVD player for sale, it was in my last truck for about 6 months and I no longer need it. It's in great condition some of the specs on it are belowJVC KW-AVX710 7-Inch In-Dash Double-DIN CD/DVD/MP3/iPod Bluetooth-Ready Touchscreen Receiver Overview:■AM/FM radio, DVD, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD, CD-R/RW, VCD, MP3/WMA/WAV, MPEG1/2, iPod receiver■4 x 50 Watts maximum power with two preamp outputs■Seven-inch widescreen TFT LCD touchscreen with 480×234 resolution■Includes auxiliary input, iPod direct control; add JVC modules for HD/SAT radio, Bluetooth■One-year limited warranty This sells for 589.00 at Amazon.com and I am asking 300.00 obo. Though there is no remote with it, it fell out of the truck and I can no longer find it but in all honesty it's not something you need for this. The DVD player is almost completly touchscreen and works great, you can check the reviews on it. I will also include a set of RCA cables for an iPod. If interested please email me at email@example.com and I can send you a picture of it
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LAKE PLACID — Paul O'Shea of Ireland rode Primo De Revel to victory in the $75,000 Equine Insurance Services/Great American Grand Prix of Lake Placid to culminate the 44th-annual Lake Placid Horse Show, Presented by Sea Shore Stables, LLC.
O'Shea was one of six entries from the starting field of 34 to reach the jump-off by riding without penalty over the 14-jump first round course designed by 2008 Olympic course designer Steve Stephens. The first to return for the 8-jump tiebreaker was Heather Caristo-Williams of Saugerties on Evening Star. She finished with 4 faults and a time of 41.795 seconds.
Next up was U.S. Olympic veteran Margie Engle of Wellington, Fla., who has been a Grand Prix winner in Lake Placid a record seven times. She took over the lead with a fault-free ride in 39.409 seconds on Royce, a 9-year-old, Oldenburg gelding.
The next two riders failed to catch Engle before O'Shea, 36, returned on the 12-year-old, Belgian Warmblood owned by Michael Hayden. He finished clean in 38.189 seconds to claim the win. Engle placed second and Caristo-Williams finished third.
"I watched Margie go and when I saw her do six strides between fences 2 and 3 I changed my strategy to do the same," he said. "I had thought at first that it would ride longer. I rode as fast as I could without overdoing it."
Engle said that her first concern was to go clean. "I didn't ride all out because, going early, I knew I had to be clean to have a chance. I knew there were places that I could get caught and Paul did a beautiful job."
The win by O'Shea of Kildimo, Ireland marked the fourth straight year that a rider from Ireland has won the event, following wins by Darragh Kenny in 2010, Jonathan McCrea in 2011 and Kenny again last year.


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The Monroe Master Gardener and Friends are once again potting up their favorite perennials, annuals, houseplants and vegetables to sell to the public, by donation, on Saturday, May 4 at the Monroe County Extension Office. The sale will run from 8-11 a.m. with no early sales.
The Monroe Master Gardeners and Friends have ongoing projects all around Albia and the proceeds from the plant sale are budgeted out for the numerous projects. They are a non-profit volunteer group with the annual plant sale as their main fundraiser, so with your generous donations for their plants they are able to support their various community projects all around Albia. They hold monthly meetings on the second Thursday of the month at 6:30 p.m. and often host educational features. They welcome anyone with a desire to or love of gardening.
The Monroe Master Gardeners and Friends would like to promote the public to bring their plastic pots, 4-packs and flats for us to reuse. Reuse, renew, recycle are three things we try very hard to incorporate into our daily living.
"Iowa Master Gardener" is an educational and volunteer service program of the Iowa State University College of Agriculture and ISU Extension. Through the Iowa Master Gardener program, interested volunteers receive advanced training in horticulture and environmental topics of special value to the home gardener. In exchange for this training, Master Gardeners share their time and knowledge on approved projects within their communities.
If you have any questions about the Master Gardener and Friends group, the Master Gardener program or about the upcoming plant sale please call the Monroe County Extension office at (641) 932-5612.


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A swarm of about 10 police cruisers, lights and sirens going, responded to a possible burglary in Diamond Bar Thursday but it turned out to be a false alarm.
The cops were sent to a possible burglary in the 22000 block of Cello Drive about 1:45 p.m., according to Los Angeles sheriff's Lt. John Saleeby.
When they arrived, they found a door open but no burglar, Saleeby told Patch.
The resident had left the door opened, the lieutenant said.