LibreOffice: The Next Five Years - <AUTHOR> https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/825598/21fb7c2a3f9358e7/ <comment><USER2> It's weird to me that people complain over "old and ugly" interfaces. Consistency is worth so much more than fad-chasing. Learning something is more worthwhile if you are able to trust that it won't change underneath you.

Take MS Office for example, I was made to learn how to use it in elementary school, we had an exam where we got a printed out page and had to reproduce it in an hour. This was supposed to be fundamental computer knowledge like learning to type.

I still have the same keyboard layout as back then but MS Office now has some janky "ribbon interface" which bears no resemblance to how it used to be. Although it should be criminal for public schools to teach proprietary software, we can forget about that for a minute and instead consider how futile it is to teach things that are not open standards or at least free software. You have absolutely no assurance that this knowledge will still be applicable even just a few years later.

My hope is that free software projects will attempt to preserve old interfaces (making them accessible via initial configuration) when they make updates. Besides, you shouldn't be replacing your GUI if your architecture hasn't got a clear separation between presentation and core logic.

<comment><USER3> The ribbon interface was adopted in 2007. That's 13 years ago.

What is the jank? It's a tabbed interface of buttons instead of menus and sub menus.

The most common operations are descriptive buttons.

Give someone word 2003 or word 2020 who has never used a word processor before. Which one would be more intuitive?

It's bad UI if people just learn where to click. They should be able to think in terms of "I want to do X" and be able to do that as quick as possible.

Of course with specialised tools that's a different story. AutoCAD hasn't really changed its interface but it got superceded in areas by new applications that break people's workflows in a lot of cases.

It's just a word processor. The knowledge you should have gained when being taught was the concepts of what you can do with one.

That should allow you to adapt to different software. Once you've used a word processor you don't need to read the help page for Google Docs.

It's not like switching from Maya to Blender.

I don't agree on the free software projects point. Often they're made by volunteers. And anything too "daring" would be shouted down by the community.

<comment><USER4> I'm going to disagree here.

Alice is a new user who has never used Word before. Between word 2003 and 2020, I grant she'll pick up 2020 much more quickly - point in favour of the new one.

Bob is an employee who uses Word just short of 4 hours a day, 5 days a week writing and editing reports (the rest of the time he spends in Outlook, excel etc.). If there's a task that Bob does 50 times in a typical week, then it doesn't matter so much to him whether it takes a bit longer to learn the command (after about the 150th time he'll have got used to it), but it matters a lot how fast he can do it once he's learnt it. Bob literally becomes more productive by having an interface which he can operate by muscle memory, in a way that more than pays off the initial training costs.

Think of keyboard shortcuts for example: they're completely unintuitive to a newcomer, but with experience, Control+Z and Control+C, Control+V and the like save time, and time is money. My favourite word trick in this category, incidentally, is Control+Space "remove formatting" for text you've pasted in from elsewhere; it doesn't work all of the time though. You used to be able to do Control+Shift+V for "paste as plain text", I don't know which version removed that again but I consider it a great loss. Paste -> Keep Text Only takes just longer enough to be annoying.

<comment><USER5> So what's kept Bob from committing the ribbon interface to memory in the past 17 years?

<comment><USER6> The ribbon interface removed customizability, and inflated the size of all the common commands (and also made it impossible to get them back without 3rd party extensions).

Pre-Ribbon I could have the menus, file operations, font and paragraph settings, and the reviewing tool bar at the top of my screen. I could have the object and image editing at the bottom.

Post-ribbon the exact same amount of space is does a third as much. Reviewing for some reason is now on a separate tab. The menus are less commonly used functions are non-existent, stuck somewhere under "File" which now takes over the whole screen when I open it.

It is not just "different" it's worse. It removes the basic ability to prioritize my interface to the types of tasks I'm doing, in favor of some vaguely defined every-user who is not actually a real user.

<comment><USER7> They've optimized it for the least common denominator, not for specialized use or for power users. Short term this is a positive approach as it's more approachable for people who are just learning or are very lightweight users. But for people who have a lot of experience or use it often, it's a serious regression.

<comment><USER8> I'm a "Power User" and I've memorized every single hotkey on the Excel ribbon interface to the point that I don't care where they are.

Wrap text? Alt H A W

Open settings? Alt T F T

Change to page break view? Alt W I. Go back to normal view with Alt W L

Take the border I currently have on the top edge of a cell and swap it to the bottom? Alt H B M Alt+T Alt+B

Paste values transposing? Alt H V S V E. Want to follow the old accelerator? Alt E S V E also works

Power users don't need to care what the ribbon / menu looks like. They learn hotkeys.

<comment><USER9> I'm an emacs user. You have made me feel warm inside.

<comment><USER10> Emacs is a lot like Excel in many ways: they both make you feel like wizards. I suck at excel, but I've seen some analysts who are crazy good at it. You watch them use it and numbers and shit just start appearing out of nowhere. It's pure magic!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> There seems to be a very large elephant missing from that discussion which is the rise of SaaS office suites. Speaking personally, I'm very glad that there is a free software office suite (as well as drawing programs etc.) However, I sincerely hope that collaborating on documents and presentations by mailing them around to people and trying to merge their edits and comments is never again the norm for me. Shared documents are probably a much overlooked enabler for people to work remotely in the current situation.

Added: They do mention LibreOffice Online but that seems like it should be a more central point in the discussion.

<comment><USER12> I agree, the main point I would expect from "The next five years of LibreOffice" would be a self-hosted competitor to Google Docs and Office 365. There's definitely a place for a local application editing documents, but I don't think that's what's going to matter the most five years from now when compared to a solid web based alternative -- and I also don't think a "code freeze" for the "normal" LibreOffice (not that I'm advocating one) would make the product unusable five years down the road.

<comment><USER13> They have a self-hosted online suite, it's called Collabora.

<comment><USER14> I find it really odd that they chose server side rendering. I only did a very brief demo of it, but I was not impressed.

<comment><USER13> Yes, unfortunately. Makes impossible to work under unstable connections.

I hope Webasm enable porting at least some of the rendering code to client- side in the future.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Democrats in the US House of Representatives just approved a $741 billion defense spending package. It will almost certainly clear the senate and be signed by the president.

Imagine taking enough of that money to support these 40 LibreOffice developers and maybe say 20 more. There would be no need for these acrobatics around source availability.

I understand why the companies need to do this. But there is an existing system for funding things with widespread benefits to society. It's called the government.

<comment><USER16> >Imagine taking enough of that money to support these 40 LibreOffice developers and maybe say 20 more.

There are infinite ways to spend every dollar, why is LibreOffice funding worthy? In other words, why is LibreOffice's popularity so low that it cannot find a way to fund its operations? Which then raises the question - why do you want to fund an unpopular project?

<comment><USER17> I think the idea is that 1% of a b52 bomber might take LibreOffice to an unparalleled place for a libre project.

<comment><USER16> I get the 'idea'. There are more things to fund then there are funding dollars available ... by many orders of magnitude, so you have to make decisions. One of those decisions is whether or not to pay for a certain numbers of b52 bombers. Another, completely separate decision, is whether to fund a very specific niche open source project. Linking those two is disingenuous. If you want funding for LibreOffice, make the case to your representative. Make the case to others so they make the case to your representative.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> As much as I love free software, LibreOffice interface feels old and ugly (to me, at least). It would be nice if there was more focus on the UX/UI design in open source projects. Of course, most programmers are not UX/UI designers, and designers don't tend to work for free on open source projects.

<comment><USER19> No... the problem with desktop software is that creating a good UI/UX is a hard software problem typically solved by software developers instead of designers. Whereas, the accessibility and power of web technologies show that making UI/UX an easier software problem (HTML, CSS, JS) automatically attracts more designers yielding better UX/UI.

<comment><USER20> >making UI/UX an easier software problem (HTML, CSS, JS) automatically attracts more designers yielding better UX/UI

I find this a bit questionable. What are some examples of this good UX and UI? Many HTML-ish UIs I can think of are not good. Slack, Discord, modern Windows apps such as the new settings app for example. They tend to suffer from poor reimplementations of native widget functionality, poor implementations of scrollable elements especially infinitely scrollable ones, low information density and too much whitespace often exacerbated by flat design, janky responsiveness often with high latency.

<comment><USER19> Apart from the remarks about flat design, whitespace and information-density, which are very personal imho, I would say Google Drive, Google Docs, Microsoft Office Online, GitHub source code editor, Visual Studio code, Atom, all do a good job.

<comment><USER21> Good job? Maybe on a beefy first-world computer. The UX goes down the drain if you try to run a few of those apps at once.

<comment><USER22> Doubtlessly the programmers who work on those products use computers with dozens of gigabytes of ram and half a dozen cores or more. They're out of touch with the sort of computers a TON of casual computer owners are using daily.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I hate to rant, but there is a weird sense of entitlement in many comments. An assumption that software should "just work", be completely bug free, have the best design, have developers quickly responding to bug reports, etc, while giving away the product for free.

I might not use an office suite very often, but when I do, I'm grateful it exists and is free/libre. Some orgs (gov, companies, service providers/resellers) do rely on LibreOffice, and they should really make sure that core developers can keep on going.

(I work for a free software service provider/reseller and core developer, this comes up regularly)

<comment><USER24> This is the de facto complaint of open source software, and initially I thought the entitlement can really only be explained by laziness, after all why don't people just bother to read the source code and contribute the feature they want?

But then I realized its way way more rudimentary than that. A substantial amount of software developers struggle w/ interpersonal communication skills, and so often what may have been intended as a polite feature suggestion came across as entitlement, if not bewilderment that a feature doesn't exist through a poor choice of words combined with a lack of empathy that we see everywhere throughout the internet anyway.

<comment><USER25> > why don't people just bother to read the source code and contribute the > feature they want?

It is a bit far fetched to expect non programmer users to read the source code, much less contribute the feature (i.e. from requirements gathering to feasibility analysis, to design, implementation, testing, and release) isn't it?

That is the kind of work that only a compensated team would do, especially and something as complex as an office productivity suite. In other nonprofit areas, your organizations doing work rely on charitable contributions from donors who share the same interests. Until such a time that such donors exist, it's hard to see how the development model is funded.

> A substantial amount of software developers struggle w/ interpersonal > communication skills, and so often what may have been intended as a polite > feature suggestion came across as entitlement

They might have interpersonal issues, but it seems like the deeper issue here is more with the incentive model, not with the developers' personality traits.

<comment><USER26> So you say most of the users can't utilize freedom to change program. Neither coding, not testing, not money, not individually, not collectively.

In other words - they take someones else work for free and give nothing back. And then they complain about quality.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Why so much talk about the ribbon? This article has nothing to say about that. This is about a Personal Edition and an Enterprise edition and how little revenue its actually coming in.

Basically, libre office won't be libre anymore. Looks like Enterprise is gonna have a commercial license.

By the way, I think the ribbon is far better than the ugly dropdown menus. It's also been over a decade since it was introduced. Some of yall are so resistant to change is bordering on zealotry. I hate to remind everyone about dropbox but dropbox.

<comment><USER28> > _Basically, libre office won 't be libre anymore_

The personal version still will be, right?

Now this would be something to worry about if all new feature development were put into enterprise, and the personal version stagnated.

But from my experience in enterprise software, enterprise features are generally not even applicable to consumer users at all. They're things like single sign-on, approval workflow integration, private cloud integration and whatnot.

It's not as if a bugfix for page margins will make it to the enterprise version and not the personal one.

So this doesn't feel like something to worry about. If it provides the necessary financial resources to keep the personal edition alive, then I'm all for it.

<comment><USER27> Yeah I'm cool with it too, it's just not quote unquote true free software anymore. Which should be big news, but basically the whole first page of comments is all about the MS word ribbon

Madness of crowds for sure

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> It might sound stupid, but looking at the marketing plan attached to this article ( [https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/jzryGw7XDkJadmo#p...](https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/jzryGw7XDkJadmo#pdfviewer) ) I wonder how they could deliver such an important message in such a messy way. There are context slides together with strategy slides, together with marketing slides, together with analysis slides. the best one is slide 48, which seems to be a leftover of the initial storyline?

I really like LibreOffice and I try to push its usage where I can, but reading about a potentially risky development strategy in such a messy way makes me wonder if it has been thought out so well or it is a muddy idea reflected in unclear writing.

</comment><comment><USER30> Huh. I just tried Calc (18.104.22.168, Ubuntu 18.04) again this morning for the first time in a while and it crashed in seconds after right-clicking a few column headers. It's repeatable.

When trying to navigate the very confusing document recovery dialogs to restart it, it then launched as Writer not Calc.

I really wish it was an option but JFC. My experience with has always been so bad it doesn't even feel worth raising a bug report.

<comment><USER31> Could you make a video of that? I am clicking myself silly (ubuntu 18.04 / 220.127.116.11) and cannot repeat that behavior. I use calc a lot and it rarely crashes (less than excel/windows which, on my ms surface tablet, actually quite regularly crashes or hangs).

<comment><USER30> Sure, here you go:

[https://imgur.com/a/PZMaqff](https://imgur.com/a/PZMaqff)

org.gnome.Shell.desktop[4355]: Window manager warning: Invalid WM_TRANSIENT_FOR window 0x9000024 specified for 0x9000965 (LibreOffic).

You have shamed me into raising a bug ;)

edit: raised, the 6.0 branch is EOL, doesn't happen in 188.8.131.52

<comment><USER32> yup, that's the thing, people love to complain on random social media platforms, but most people can't be bothered to report bugs. been guilty of it myself as well of course

<comment><USER33> As someone who frequently encounters bugs, let me explain why I don't usually bother to file bug reports: No one cares.

Choose any large long-lived open source project at random and search their issue tracker and I guarantee you can find at least 3 open bugs that are 5 years old or more. I know, because I've run into these bugs, as have dozens of others, and went to report them only to find they had already been reported years ago with no action taken by the developers.

Filing bugs takes time. You're going to want reproducible steps, you're going to want logs, you're going to want me to try different things. That's fine, and I'm willing to do that to get my bug fixed, but only if I think you actually give enough of a shit to fix it. I don't enjoy wasting my time any more than you do. When I see 5 year old open issues your tracker, where several users have chimed in, submitted logs, etc. and you've done nothing, I assume you don't care so neither do I.

Worse yet, many developers are downright hostile to users reporting bugs or, god forbid, making feature suggestions. Spend five minutes in GNOME's issue tracker to see what I mean.

<comment><USER34> For example, I encounter this bug every day when I open Firefox (latest version) on i3wm. "Opened 9 years ago."

[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686747](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686747)

<comment><USER26> Bug is open, "firefox57 - wontfix" means "would not be fixed in Firefox 57"

* Create New Account

* Edit Bug

* Tracking Flags: $version => affected

* Save Changes

Do it for every version. It is extremely hard to know is issue resolved or not. I've tried to reproduce session restore on Developers Edition - nope, I can't. There is no minimal xmonad config attached. Is it solved by ewmh (helps at least with fullscreen)? If bug "is simple to fix" try to fix yourself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Do people use LibreOffice because it's open-source or because it you don't have to pay for it? In either case, the "enterprise edition" they envision will fail to service either camp.

If you have to spend any money at all, you might as well spend the money that MS Office costs. Or else, the main competitor is not MS Office but Google Docs.

<comment><USER36> The people _I_ know use LO for essentially political reasons.

I've never really tried to use anything other than MS Office, because for my whole career I've been interacting with people on Windows using standard Windows/MSFT tools, and so any inconsistency / glitch in document exchange would automatically be my fault if I insisted on using LO or Apple's tools or whatever.

Plus, honest go God, Word and Excel are really, really good at what they do. Word got their more slowly, but once Excel ate Lotus 1-2-3, there really never was another competitor there, and Excel just kept getting more and more powerful. It's a wonderful tool.

(Now, there ARE people who learn Excel but refuse to go further -- into a true database, or into a proper business intelligent /reporting tool, or whatever -- and end up creating their own really janky versions of these things within Excel with macros and insane formulas hidden out in AA:5234 or whtaever; that's a problem for sure. But it's not so much an Excel problem as it is a problem with the lack of an obvious next-step ramp for those users.)

<comment><USER37> >for my whole career I've been interacting with people on Windows using standard Windows/MSFT tools, and so any inconsistency / glitch in document exchange would automatically be my fault if I insisted on using LO or Apple's tools or whatever. //

How long is that career? Over my working life StarOffice/OpenOffice/OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice have been far more compatible (for relatively basic documents) with other versions of MSWord than MSWord has, I don't really have experience of cross-compatibility from the last 5 years or so though.

<comment><USER36> 30 years.

And no, what you say absolutely has not been my experience. Any rich formatting tends to get lost or munged, and support for stylesheets / templates between Office and non-Office platforms was woefully lacking.

If you're alone, sure, the free or Free option might be a good choice. But your time has value, so if you're collaborating with other people using true Office, just use Office. You'll be happier.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Is there a manifesto or document anywhere which lays out the economic case for (US) Federal grants to develop free software? How many developers and how many projects could be staffed full-time with a billion dollars set aside annually for an Office of Open Source Software?

(Of course such an office would descend into a cluster-[bleep] of political warfare over topics that have nothing to do with developing software so spending nothing probably gets as much done in this area than creating a government office which costs money and doesn't get anything accomplished.)

<comment><USER39> A better deal would be Fed paying MS, then MS charging other countries all over the world and MS collects big $$$ in profits and US tax paid. Much of SV started like this too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> > Another pathology is that there are companies who ship LibreOffice, often > claiming support, but then file all their tickets up-stream and hope they > are fixed for free.

Lmao... but thinking again, given the average user's bug-filing abilities, a professional bug-filer might actually be useful.

<comment><USER41> Indeed. I created this initiative some time ago, but sadly have not been able to get folks responsible for deployments involved: [https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Guidelines_for_public...](https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Guidelines_for_public_and_private_sector_deployments)

I guess it's just another reflection of the passivity we witness everywhere.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I am looking forward to future development of LibreOffice. For me it has become better and better. I've never had a new installation, or update of LO which made me think "If only I had stuck to the old version!"

More and more I am using plain text formats these days, which I then convert into other things, but from time to time it is nice to have LO at the ready, knowing, that it is free software and as such will always be available, in our collective resources.

A friend of mine recently complained about pictures disappearing and floating over text area margins in their document and having to put them back in in a 200 page document. I've never had such a problem. However, there seem to be some rough edges left to improve.

I cannot complain about the user interface actually. To me it is quite intuitive and I find everything I usually need rather quickly.

</comment><comment><USER43> It seems like this whole thing could be solved by renaming the tag from "Personal Edition" to "Lite Edition" or something. People want to use and "office" product for work, duh. The document foundation keep arguing that funding is needed and the users keep arguing that they want a free version for commercial use and that naming is important because "the boss won't read the license agreement but look at the name! Personal Edition"

Why are people on the defensive always so blinded by the obvious? If you understand what people are getting upset about then, on the first line of the letter, they should state, unambiguously, exactly what people are having an issue with. Instead, the introduction is about the success of LibraOffice which is not contended and actually somewhat irrelevant. Then this:

> So it is a bit surprising to see the project's core developers in a sort of > crisis mode while users worry about a tag that showed up in the project's > repository

This sentence just tells the reader that you still don't understand what the fuss is about because you are referring to past good will and not the simple fact that the name is wrong. Readers want to know that you understand their point of view before they are willing to read about your point of view.

<comment><USER44> "Lite Edition" isn't much better. The usual name for this kind of thing is "Community Edition", which has no negative connotations. But I don't see why it needs any special name. The LibreOffice brand is already harmed by the continued existence of OpenOffice, which many people still think of as the default free (as in beer) office suite despite its obsolescence. Complicating the LibreOffice name will only make things worse. IMO it should remain plain "LibreOffice", and the paid support version can be "LibreOffice Enterprise Edition".

<comment><USER45> Someone from TDF responded to a similar comment on Reddit:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ho0n51/update_on_lib...](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ho0n51/update_on_libreoffice_naming_and_tdfs_ecosystem/fxfer3k/?context=2)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I just loaded up LibreOffice to give it a try, I would like to move off of Google as much as possible. 5 minutes in, I'm like, this is not that bad! Then this happened:

> Due to an unexpected error, LibreOffice crashed. All the files you were > working on will now be saved. The next time LibreOffice is launched, your > files will be recovered automatically.

I really require tools with multi platform live collaboration--I've been looking at Apple's Calc, as a possible switch, as well.

</comment><comment><USER38> Maybe I'm seeing what I want but it seems that the plan is for the document formats and editing programs to be free while generating revenue from infrastructure around delivering something "Sharepoint-like" (or a SaaS service to do similar), complete with a throat to choke/vendor to blame if things go sideways. I don't see this as fundamentally different from the choice of running CentOS versus paying for RHEL: the latter is the same software but comes with enterprise assurances that allow the CIO to sleep at night.

I'm sure there's someone could write a compelling essay along the lines of "Free Software isn't free of charge" if someone were inclined to pursue it. Even people like RMS have to eat from time to time.

</comment><comment><USER47> > The problem is compounded by companies that sell inexpensive "support" for > LibreOffice, but which are not involved in its development and are not > really able to provide that support. Those companies "file all their tickets > up-stream and hope they are fixed for free". Companies working in that mode > have no problem pricing their offerings below those of the companies doing > the actual work (and thus winning much of the business that does exist). In > addition, they simply call their offerings "LibreOffice", which actually > looks more authentic than services from other companies, which are trying to > build their own brands around LibreOffice support.

Is this not a cut-and-dry case of trademark violation?

</comment><comment><USER48> Every time I open LibreOffice and see the loading logo... I'm amazed it's free software.

I'm thankful to everyone that has contributed to it.

</comment><comment><USER49> The Document Foundation should - IMHO - employ a more nuanced, and "deeper", community funding effort. Even though, when downloading it, we see a payment link - there is almost no motivation to press it:

1\. We are in a hurry to go on with the download.

2\. It's called a "donation" \- which it isn't. It's support for the project, financing further development and bug removal, and should be presented that way.

3\. We have zero information about the situation The Document Foundation is in, what it needs money for, what its income stream look like and why, etc. I think Thunderbird ([https://www.thunderbird.net/](https://www.thunderbird.net/)) has been doing a better job in that respect.

4\. There doesn't seem to be an effort to encourage or even make-it-easy-for users (corporate or individual) to engage in community activity, of the kind that increases commitment to the project and also awareness to the importance of supporting the project financially.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>

Also - please consider actually supporting both projects I mentioned, financially:

* LibreOffice: [https://www.libreoffice.org/donate/](https://www.libreoffice.org/donate/)

* Thunderbird: [https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/](https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/)

and consider doing some volunteer QA work on LibreOffice by reporting bugs or even getting into the code. I, particularly, am very involved with Right-to- Left, Hebrew and some Arabic language issues.

</comment><comment><USER50> Instead of delivering the dead and long stalled project Apache should admit the failure of OpenOffice (with their commit rate vs LibreOffice's one it's obvious) and redirect to LibreOffice instead. They should officially deprecate it. Right now they are stealing potential users of LO with their substandard product.

</comment><comment><USER3> I haven't used Libreoffice in years.

Did they ever update the UI styling?

I remember it had a very "java" look to it.

You know that feeling when you open an app, you know it's going to be a bit janky.

<comment><USER51> It has visual class libraries that give LO a slightly different look depending on what you're running it on.

I'm typing this from a Debian system running KDE Plasma, and my LibreOffice reports using the gtk3_kde5 VCL. It uses Qt5 widgets and looks, for the most part, like a regular KDE Qt5 application. It no longer looks or feels like a Java application. Because it's not - Java is optional except in LibreOffice Base. You can disable JRE in the options, and LO parts that are not Base will retain nearly all functionality.

<comment><USER52> To be completely fair, it never looked like a Java application.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> > so nobody thinks in terms of buying support for any office suite[.]

In my experience working in a repair shop, people only think in these terms when buying an office suite, regardless of if they'll actually use the official support. This only applies to individuals though, not corps.

</comment><comment><USER54> I'd like to use a open source text editor. But libreoffice text rendering is so bad, i cant use it. At least thats the case for me on osx, but i think this applies to all plattforms.

Just compare text rendered in libreoffice and to the one in pages. It hurts my eyes.

<comment><USER55> (LO Dev) Unfortunately, mac has the least interested programmers available to debug issues, and there is some weird interaction going on with our rendering on macOS that we can't track down.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> They do a great job.

But I use [commercial] Softmaker Office. They offer a free version too: [https://www.freeoffice.com/en/](https://www.freeoffice.com/en/)

<comment><USER57> Thanks for posting this.

I'm looking for a MS Office replacement, not heard of Softmaker Office before. I'm still using an old version of Office, but it doesn't work well on a high DPI screen.

What's your experience with Softmaker Office - anything you're missing from MS Office (if you've used it before Softmaker Office)?

<comment><USER58> I miss nothing. Buts thats me. If you need visual basic scripts, maybe it is not for you. AFAIK it has its own scripting language. There is no risk to test the free version. You can actually use the free version, the limitations are not tremendous. I always buy it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Personally I find LibreOffice Writer to be fine for my regular reports until something goes wrong and then it's like old versions of Word.

For example, occasionally when I'm making a numbered list the tenth item and beyond will be bounced over a full tabstop which looks horrible. Then I'm trying to work around the problem by messing with the tab stops which causes problems for the rest of the document.

It's really hard to fix when something goes wrong as a casual user. Inserting images/figures is fraught with peril too. I sometimes find myself hacking the doc until it looks presentable and then not touching it. It's like those old "smart" systems that weren't quite smart enough to get it right, but would fight you tooth and nail when you tried to undo what they did.

For what its worth I prefer the consistency of its interface over the ever changing ribbon of Word. Word also tries to guess what you want and when it guesses wrong it's really annoying.

</comment><comment><USER60> We kind of need a version of CC-BY-NC. Preferably with a governance model that then distributes money from commercial licenses to contributors... Or government funded Open source. There is no reason for society to try to do something as intrinsically cooperative as building software through market mechanisms.

</comment><comment><USER61> Summary"

 _... There is the Personal Edition, which would be "forever free" and only available from the Document Foundation. This release would be tagged, according to the plan, "volunteer supported, not suggested for production environments or strategic documents". The alternative would be "LibreOffice Enterprise", which would only be available from "ecosystem members". This version would come with commercial support and a corresponding price tag. ... "There will be an X month gap between the release of the two versions: LibreOffice Online Enterprise and LibreOffice Online Personal"._

</comment><comment><USER62> Have any of the support companies tried paying bounties for tickets? Seems like it would get revenue pointed at the bugs/enhancements that customers wanted worked on.

Do they have a subscription to pay LO directly?

</comment><comment><USER63> I don't mind LibreOffice's interface in general. Only a sublime style Ctrl+p find would make a huge difference. That alone would put it's interface on top of MS office in my opinion.

</comment><comment><USER64> I find it noteworthy that LibreOffice Online is what's bringing in cash according to TFA. What it might tell us is that the prevalence of cloud and online services today is just a consequence and natural market reaction to F/OSS proliferation. LO/OO.o themselves have open-sourced their product many years ago when it still was owned by Sun (I even know developers in Hamburg who worked on it in the 1990's when it still was called Star Office).

</comment><comment><USER65> I have a few questions that don't seem to be fully answered in the post.

> This "Personal Edition" tag ... has the purpose of differentiating the > current, free and community-supported LibreOffice from a LibreOffice > Enterprise set of products and services provided by the members of our > ecosystem.

Will this "LibreOffice Enterprise" be Free as in Freedom? Would I be able to package it up myself and call it "Community ENTerprise Office Suite"?

<comment><USER45> This isn't really changing anything. LibreOffice is under the GPL. It's just a marketing attempt to get large organizations to realize that they should contribute back to the ecosystem if they rely on LibreOffice.

<comment><USER65> LibreOffice is currently under the LGPLv3 and the MPLv2, not the GPL.

Further, the document refers to 'new products' that could be under the 'LibreOffice Enterprise' umbrella. Could any of these be proprietary? Do we have any assurances?

<comment><USER45> You are correct. I don't know how I fabricated that idea.

In response to your second point, there seems to be strong opposition to open core from some key players in the community.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> Personal Edition implies it won't have important collaboration features needed in organizations. And whether that will be true or not isn't the issue, less volunteers and non-profits will end up using LibreOffice, instead they could just called it Community Edition like every other FOSS project. They will end up with less volunteer contributors, but maybe that's what TDF wants, it's a pity.

</comment><comment><USER67> Can we expect an Auto-Update within the next 5 years?

<comment><USER38> What's wrong with updating via Flatpack or AppImage (or Brew or Chocolatey)?

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> About people hating change, in my IDE an update renamed a menu from "revert" to "Rollback" , for a while I had issues finding this menu because my brain was searching for the old text and just skipping over the new one.

Is it my fault that change causes productivity loss? Should we take a pause and train ourselves after each software/webpage does a change?

</comment><comment><USER69> Kind of odd that they don't compare themselves to Blender and its successful foundation in the article, not even mentioned once.

</comment><comment><USER70> Is there a hosted service for LibreOffice online ? I wish I could find a better replacement for Google Drive.

<comment><USER71> I recommend checking out ONLYOFFICE. They have a personal tier with a small online storage for free. And everything is AGPLv3.

[https://personal.onlyoffice.com/](https://personal.onlyoffice.com/)

<comment><USER52> OnlyOffice are not a community-oriented project, with their aggressive usage of AGPL+CLA, previous policy of withholding parts of code and throwing the rest over the wall once in a while, and their compatibility is far from what they claim: LibreOffice is far better compatible with MSO. Also, feature-wise it's crippled in comparison not only with LibreOffice proper, but even with LibreOffice Online.

<comment><USER14> > LibreOffice is far better compatible with MSO

Why do you say that? I trialed both of them with an array of complex Word documents and OnlyOffice far outperformed.

<comment><USER52> > > LibreOffice is far better compatible with MSO

> Why do you say that? I trialed both of them with an array of complex Word > documents and OnlyOffice far outperformed.

Not in my experience. OnlyOffice often failed to render simple documents LibreOffice had no problems with at all.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER72> I was hoping to find an actual plan towards making the software better, more usable, and desirable. Instead it's just a "marketing plan" about splitting apart something that lags behind.

Where's the vision?!

</comment><comment><USER73> So much talk about UI this and that - how about leaving UI and feature set alone and instead focus on speed and memory foot print?

Though recent versions are better, it still feels slow compared to Office.

</comment><comment><USER74> If LibreOffice is offering a paid version for extra features / services, considering what they are already offering, I would certainly paid, or at least have a strong interest.

</comment><comment><USER75> Wordstar and Wordperfect were easier to use imo.

<comment><USER76> I still remember the inconveniently tall keyboard templates (e.g. [https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&q=wor...](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&q=wordperfect+keyboard+template)) for WordPerfect to tell users where all the function were. Give me the ribbon bar anyday.

</comment></comment><comment><USER75> GUI was a mistake.

</comment><comment><USER77> so basically iceweasel vs. firefox again. I'm fine with that (and still miss the icon)

<comment><USER78> Could be that the enterprise will include some cloud sync for auto backup (like O365/OneDrive), of course that will not be free. Best case (call me naive) but it could just be that the personal edition simply does not ask for the syncing, worst case, it will nag you constantly.

<comment><USER77> well, if you're paying for the cloud, you can pay for the free-as in freedom- software as well I guess ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER79> Is there any electron gpl based Word and Excel alternative? I always imagined running on top of electron helped you skip a lot of work and helped the app not look like shit/LibreOffice

<comment><USER20> Libreoffice looks like a native desktop app. How do electron apps look better than that?

<comment><USER80> Plus, it is possible to customise the icons and colour scheme. There's light mode, dark mode, blue mode, even pink...</comment></comment></comment>


UI/UX designer is more important than programmer - <AUTHOR> http://www.okendoken.com/2012/05/uiux-designer-is-more-important-than.html

<comment><USER2> It's not who's more important.

\- You need a designer to design a product

\- You need a developer to make it work

\- You need a marketing person to sell it

Miss on any of those and you're missing an important part, so I'd say all three are equally important.</comment>


Poll: Preferred alternate JVM language - <AUTHOR> http://thecodegeneral.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/jvm-language-popularity/

<comment><USER2> I think a better way to phrase the poll would be: Which alternative JVM language do you actively use most?

I've met a lot of people who like and use groovy and have it in production but almost nobody who actively uses clojure or scala. Maybe I am biased by my social circle or maybe people are just answering the poll based on what language they think is coolest and not the one they actually use.

<comment><USER3> Depends on what you want to know of course but I'm more interested in what people would prefer to use. I'd imagine that many people are still using Java and I wonder how many would prefer to switch.

For me, I use Scala at work now but I'd prefer to use Clojure. Probably an even better poll would be what do you use and what would you prefer to use.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I know this is about the alternatives, and I'm probably absolutely mad, but I still prefer Java over all the new alternatives.

It still feels "solid" and dependable and without much fluff.

<comment><USER5> [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2952732/samples-of- scala-...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2952732/samples-of-scala-and- java-code-where-scala-code-looks-simpler-has-fewer-lines/)

<comment><USER4> I only have one comment to reply to that with:

null, Null, None, Nil

At least I know which null I'm referring to in Java!

<comment><USER5> Very important feature that. I usually choose my language based on such important considerations. Busy deleting my Scala code as I write this and rewriting it into Java code 5-10 times the size so I don't have to suffer from being confused between null and None. Something in the back of my head tells me it has something to do with the infamous null pointer exception...

<comment><USER4> I'm not confused between null and None. That's obvious and wholly pointless.

You should know that you must initialise all types to a default value. Then you don't need a language feature for "None". Being lazy or stupid is not a reason to add a language feature.

Oh and none of my code has thrown an NPE for over 10 years. That was when I started using pre and post condition checking which ultimately solves a lot more problems than some language feature.

There is nowt wrong with null, if you truly understand what it is.

<comment><USER5> That's a lot like arguing that since my C++ code hasn't segfaulted or leaked memory in 10 years that garbage collection in Java is essentially pointless. I also don't see much need for classes in that new-fangled C++ thing since my assembler code has a "solid" feel to it and has worked reliably for years. Being too lazy to initialize registers correctly is not a reason to add more features.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I didn't like this poll, with only being able to make one choice. Should be a "favorites" poll. I rely pretty heavily on both Clojure and JRuby for my work, and for experimental learning projects. I would have liked to vote for both languages.

Edit: I just took the poll a second time, problem solved :-)

</comment><comment><USER7> At least the list of languages is looks reasonably exhaustive. No inclusion of Mirah or Nice though.

<comment><USER5> According to Wikipedia work on Nice slowed around 6 years ago... <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_(programming_language)>

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> A rather useless question. The word "prefer" is much too vague.

I'd be rather interested in how much experience people actually have with these languages and whether they plan to continue using that language in future projects.

<comment><USER5> The popularity of a language is important. If developers don't like a language they won't use it. Look at Ruby a few years ago as an example of a popular language which was hardly used which became on of the most widely used scripting languages in modern times.

<comment><USER8> I'm not sure though whether "prefer" (prefer for or as what?) actually measures popularity ... but what kind of popularity anyway? Fanboy-fellowship? People actually using it for work that earns them a living? Hearsay/gossip?

With respect to your ruby example, I have been using ruby for about 10 years but stopped doing so a few years ago. So please excuse me if I fail to see your point. :-)

<comment><USER5> Commonly used and popular are not the same thing. I happen to know a number of developers who hate Java, but code in Java for a living. By popular I mean number of developers who actually enjoy using the language. There are better ways to measure usage e.g. job ads on indeed.com.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This could be a rather interesting poll. Might provide some data around the popularity of alternate JVM languages rather speculating.

<comment><USER9> Voting has only just started, but Scala in the lead for now :)

<comment><USER5> Not so fast... Clojure also getting some votes.

<comment><USER5> Xtend and Ceylon faring extremely badly, Kotlin only slightly better. Looks like a 2 horse race with Scala and Clojure in front.

<comment><USER10> The JVM is already crowded.

Personally I think Xtend, Ceylon and for that matter Kotlin are "me too" languages, just trying to get some piece of the pie, and most likely won't go nowhere.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I did vote on Scala, but actually I would rather that we return to languages that compile direct to native code.

<comment><USER11> I agree, I much prefer native compiled languages. I really like clojure and used it for about a year. I stopped because In doing a lot of embedded development so I need to use C and Ive been using C++/qt for desktop gui apps. Since then, though, Ive been kinda put off going back to clojure because its not native compiled even though I like the language itself.

<comment><USER10> There quite a few Lisp environments that compile to native code as well. Have you explored that route?

<comment><USER11> Not really. I've toyed with both Common Lisp and Scheme and while I love Scheme for its simplicity and minimalism (at the core, anyway), in my mind they're both really quite different from what Clojure provides. Common Lisp seemed much too clunky and patched together to me, compared to how Clojure is designed to cleanly sit on top of its sequence abstraction, Clojure's notion of time and concurrency and even just how Clojure eliminates the need for some of the parentheses that are required in CL.

I'm sure its a matter of taste (and I actually do quite like Scheme, I guess just not enough to try and make it work for me right now...).

Having said that and ignoring Clojure, I also appreciate languages with a little more syntax sometimes, so I guess that's also held me back a bit. I should give Scheme or Common Lisp another try and see if I can't use it for my current work, but its hard to set the time aside, I guess.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'd like to see ABCL in that list (a Common Lisp implementation for the JVM).</comment>


For Tesla Owner, Losing a Wheel Was Just the First Surprise - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/11/business/tesla-motors-model-s-suspension.html <comment><USER2> Ah, Keef Wivanef still trawling for attention I see?

TL;DR: Keef Wivanef is a Tesla troll.

Tesla asks goodwill customers to not tell everyone about their free repairs so everyone doesn't expect free repairs and sue when they have to pay.</comment>


Git Does Not Have Branches - <AUTHOR> https://email@example.com/git-does-not-have-branches-add468b5b4a0 <comment><USER2> To be blunt, if this is a problem you're using git incorrectly.

Why would you commit code for fixA on featureB?

If you're having issues with commits like this you have a people problem, not a fit problem.

<comment><AUTHOR> Actually, that is exactly the point - Git can be used in ways that obscure history. That is why correct and uniform use are important in a project. As for your question -look at the graph again. fixA was NOT necessarily committed on featureB. Very likely it was not. But it looks that way, due to the way Git manages branches.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Yes; I find this one of the frustrations of git. Sometimes I want to know the larger context around a specific commit, and the commit message does not provide that. Commit messages are, in my experience, good at describing what, and maybe a low-level why, but not a high-level why. Knowing branch names is a good way to find out a high-level why.</comment>


Show HN: Lumber – a CLI to generate your admin microservice - <AUTHOR> http://www.forestadmin.com/lumber <comment><AUTHOR> Github: [https://github.com/ForestAdmin/lumber](https://github.com/ForestAdmin/lumber)

Demo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cKSsBxrvR8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cKSsBxrvR8)

</comment><comment><USER2> So you clear the forest by turning it into lumber, then you enter it?</comment>


I Wore an Expensive Watch While Traveling and People Treated Me Differently - <AUTHOR> https://www.thrillist.com/expensive-watches-worth-respect-travel <comment><USER2> This reeks of confirmation bias. The guy started with a stereotypical belief that rich people are really impressed by expensive watches, and by considering the times that he _just felt sure_ he was impressing people with his expensive watch, he felt able to conclude that his belief was correct.

On top of which, he kind of had to come to the conclusion that the watch makes a difference, in order to have an article to write. If he reported a negative result, he wouldn't get a lot of clicks for that.

</comment><comment><USER3> Interestingly; I've used this before in sales but not to actively be nicer to be people (though perhaps it came across like that) but to more effectively target my time. For many people, if they're looking at items that are $4,000-$7,000 they're tire kicking. But, if someone has on a Rolex (not even that expensive ) or maybe a Hublot... I'll even settle for an Hermès, just to say that they're more likely to purchase. That's not to say that many people with budget wactches don't have the income to spend, just that people who spend money on watches sometimes seem more likely to splurge vs save on expensive luxery goods.

</comment><comment><USER4> The obvious next step is to buy a fake expensive watch. It doesn't have to carry a brandname or even a fake name based on a brandname.

But there are dozens of luxury watch brands. So unless they are an aficionado, most people won't know that the one you wear is not a super-high-end brand which is so rare that they have never seen the name.

<comment><USER5> There are also a bunch of companies making genuinely nice watches for a few hundred dollars.

<comment><USER3> It's not really about the niceness of the watch. I think it's about name and exclusivity, with these "super" high end watches. (More then $40,000)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Might be a nice article but I couldn't even read it because of the email popup that I couldn't dismiss (or missed how to do it easily).

<comment><USER5> Had exactly the same problem. A really obnoxious site

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Reads like a fluff piece written just to sell expensive watches to people who lack substance but want to impress other shallow people. Or am I just being cynical?

<comment><USER8> So when you begin a conversation with a stranger, how do you estimate his depth?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> So if works for an expensive watch, but not an expensive phone, where does that leave an expensive smart watch, ala Apple Watch Edition?

<comment><USER10> The Apple Watch is tacky, it's not a statement of wealth or style by any means. It's a big ugly square that looks like it belongs on someone's ankle while on house arrest. It's made by the millions by a bunch of robots and underpaid Asians; There's no story to it, no history, no movement, nothing to talk about other than "yep it's my Apple Watch".

Don't get me wrong, I have an Apple Watch and I wear it as needed. But it's not a "watch", it's a wrist computer, and everybody has a computer, it's a common good.</comment></comment>


Gruber on iPhone Blacklist: It's a Core Location Blacklist - <AUTHOR> http://daringfireball.net/2008/08/core_location_blacklist

<comment><USER2> I'm going to run tcpdump on my iPhone for a while. To see what it will connect to. Checks like this must be done periodically I think. Who know what other things it is checking or sending to the mothership.

<comment><USER3> Please post your findings on Hacker News! Cool idea!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Apple is covering their ass... I think it's a fair measure.

<comment><USER5> Huh? When has a hardware vendor ever been liable for actions caused by third- party software installed by the end user?

<comment><USER6> Most iPhone users will not understand the responsibility divide between hardware vendor and third-party software.</comment></comment></comment>


Razer Softminer - <AUTHOR> https://www.razer.com/softminer <comment><USER2> I'm interested to see what they're actually mining, or if they're just hooking up users to a multipool.</comment>


Plastic Plates, Cutlery, Cups to Be Banned in Europe as of 2021 - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-27/plastic-plates-cutlery-cups-to-be-banned-in-europe-as-of-2021 <comment><USER2> Stated Problem:

"With plastics accounting for around 80 percent of marine litter"

Government:

"the EU rushed through deliberations on the planned restrictions in less than a year."

Solution:

"Ban the plastic that doesn't end up in the ocean".

Good job.

Maybe someone should have told them the plastic in the ocean comes from countries without trash service, and from fishing, maybe they could have funded some charity work or NGO's or something.

This ban isn't going to help a thing.

So if I'm hosting a birthday celebration for 50 people, I'm supposed to what? Ask guests to BYOC (bring your own cutlery)? Waxed paper plates and cups work OK (although not for hot drinks), but bamboo cutlery gives me a nails-on- chalkboard feeling.

<comment><USER3> It's not a binary choice of being 100% perfect or not bothering - it's about small, meaningful steps in a better direction.

<comment><USER4> Is it really "meaningful" to chop trees instead of using petroleum for single use items? I don't know exactly, but the impact difference on trash in the ocean will approach zero.

<comment><USER3> > I don't know exactly

You sum up a fundamental problem of the world so well - you don't know, but you damn well wont let that stop you from formulating a strong opinion about it!

<comment><USER4> The point of view I'm expressing is skepticism of one thing accompanied by basic knowledge of another. You, on the other hand, are all knowing and skepticism has no place for you.

<comment><USER3> > I don't know exactly, _but the impact difference on trash in the ocean will > approach zero_.

Sorry, I couldn't see your healthy skepticism as it was blocked from view by your statement of fact.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Fun statistics:

      2010 total plastic marine debris[0]: 4,800k - 12,700k metric tons
      2010 EU plastic marine debris[0]: 50k-120k metric tons (Higher than the US by ~1k)
      2010 EU plastic marine debris percentage[0]: 1%
      2016 EU export of nontoxic garbage to a country in top 10 plastic marine waste[2]: 269,000 tonnes (a lot missing statistics so wide error bars here)
      2015 percent of nontoxic garbage export that is plastic/mixed[1]: ~9%
      Hours wasted digging through overly verbose pdfs and mislabled charts: Too many

      Probable amount of EU plastic that gets exported to top 10 country: 26.9k - 53.8k tonnes
      Crude adjusted EU ranking if 100% of the doubled amount makes it into the ocean: ~10th
      Incredibly crude adjusted EU plastic marine debris percentage: 2%

Other stupid things learned: Netherlands imports hilarious amounts of garbage [3]

[0]: [https://www.iswa.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Calendar_2011_03_...](https://www.iswa.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Calendar_2011_03_AMERICANA/Science-2015-Jambeck-768-71__2_.pdf) (the footnote of table 1 specifically)

[1]: [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics- explained/index.php...](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics- explained/index.php?title=Waste_shipment_statistics_based_on_the_European_list_of_waste_codes#Non- hazardous_notified_waste_based_on_LoW)

[2]: [http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do](http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do) (You'll have to screw with the customizations to get useful statistics)

[3]: [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/waste/transboundary- waste-...](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/waste/transboundary-waste- shipments)

</comment><comment><USER6> I wonder how that will interact with airlines usually using plastic cutlery in economy.

<comment><USER3> They'll probably just use one of the many greener alternatives.

In the UK I've started to notice the emergence of plastic alternatives, e.g. M&S have wooden cutlery for take away food now instead of plastic. It's good to see.

If only we could make some progress on disposable coffee cups...

<comment><USER7> The paper straws that have become commonplace in UK cafes are terrible. They get all soft an ruin the taste of drinks.

I understand there is a problem, I just don't think we're nowhere near good solutions.

<comment> crooked-v There are good paper straws out there, they're just a tiny bit more expensive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Dumb, this is a waste management issue almost 100%</comment>


Partnerships with people on the spectrum yield rich research insights (2017) - <AUTHOR> https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/partnerships-people-spectrum-yield-rich-research-insights/ <comment><USER2> Seriously my dream job. I am OK with programming but far better with debugging issues of human conception, but people have a hard time giving me a chance if they experience me in person. I am less sensitive to the forces that so often lead them astray. I am wrong a lot! But I'm quick to announce it. The useful part is mainly that I find a _different_ set of bugs. If they give me a chance.

<comment><USER3> A programmer with a dream of becoming a fertility doctor.

<comment><USER4> I would posit what was meant here is conception, as in understanding and not procreation.

Unless your comment is just being facetious ?

<comment><USER5> I think they simply mean "made or caused by people"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "He says Dawson can be a harsh critic, but she often spots logical errors that he and his colleagues have overlooked."

On the spectrum, and this is totally me. I tell my coworkers "I am not saying you are wrong or right, just that your logic doesn't sense."

<comment><USER7> You use grammatical errors with your coworkers to make a point about the universality of fallability?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> That way someone on the spectrum parses those questions ... reminds me much of my interaction with my daughter and some other people I know. It is so characteristic ...</comment>


macOS Removing Python/Perl/Ruby Runtimes - <AUTHOR> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos_release_notes/macos_catalina_10_15_beta_release_notes <comment><AUTHOR> "Scripting language runtimes such as Python, Ruby, and Perl are included in macOS for compatibility with legacy software. Future versions of macOS won't include scripting language runtimes by default, and might require you to install additional packages. If your software depends on scripting languages, it's recommended that you bundle the runtime within the app. (49764202)"

"Use of Python 2.7 isn't recommended as this version is included in macOS for compatibility with legacy software. Future versions of macOS won't include Python 2.7. Instead, it's recommended that you run python3 from within Terminal. (51097165)"

</comment><comment><USER2> In other words, Swift should suffice.</comment>


Values based brands/icons for licensing - <AUTHOR> So, I've been thinking about service/marketplace where people could create and market icons that represent values. Kind of a values based trademark marketplace.
- Like I won't share your email.
- we don't use child labor.
- If I lie or misrepresent the truth I'll appoligize and set the record straight. (politicians)
Companies and politicians could license these icons and if they break the licensing contract they lose the license and can't use the icon.
If the brand is outside the control of the company it makes it harder for the companies to break promises.
You could follow icons with values you share and find companies and representatives you share values with.
Obviously this is something much bigger than something I could do, but is this something that would help the shit storm of lying and changing/confusing licensing terms, etc.?
It could start with just icons that correspond with sections of terms of service agreements. which are easy to verify but makes it really easy for consumers to identify icons that represent values you desire.
Are there values you find important that you would like  companies and/or politicians share(live up to) with you? <comment><USER2> How do you prevent duplication? For example there are a lot of "this food is good" logos created by obscure "medical" societies, that are irrelevant, but you can get a few to paste in your potatoes chips bag so it is magically healthy.

In particular, in the third idea, why can't each politician make his/her own logo and make a version for each election?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> To me this has possible network effects and provides a social benefit. Does it make sense as a non-profit?</comment>


MovieLens – Non-Commercial, Personalized Movie Recommendation System - <AUTHOR> https://movielens.org/ <comment><USER2> Here's the dataset they use. I have used this as part of developing and testing the fitness of recommender systems in the past: [http://grouplens.org/datasets/movielens/](http://grouplens.org/datasets/movielens/)

This predates some of my more recent work with the grouplens database, but here is a parser I put together for the data awhile back: [https://github.com/posborne/mlcollection/blob/master/mlcolle...](https://github.com/posborne/mlcollection/blob/master/mlcollection/datasets/movielens/movielensparser.py)

</comment><comment><USER3> This looks interesting, but I'm always sad to see consumer web apps still requiring you to sign up before you can try it out. Missing out on so many potential users. 1) sell the product then 2) ask for the customers info

<comment><USER4> What would you expect to try out without an account? The whole point is using your personal ratings of movies get new recommendations.

In most cases, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you, but in this case, the experience is pretty tightly tied to having an account.

<comment><USER5> Maybe ask the user to enter three movies they like and then give a recommendation based off those three. I'd be more compelled to sign up once I see the recommendation it returns isn't completely off the mark.

<comment><USER6> That's a lovely idea in theory, but in practice any recommendations made off three data points are far more likely to discourage than encourage you from ever using the service again.

Recommendation engines require a lot more training (by you) to be useful (to you).

Worse yet, without the modest investment in time, including thinking up a new password, there's a very high risk people will randomly click just to see what the results are, which muddies the water for other users.

In any case, non-identified recommendation source data would need to be kept in a silo until the user identified / validated they were not just fiddling around. And that becomes a major mess to manage the data.

Having said that, I do respect people's right to tilt endlessly at windmills in HN comments.

<comment><USER7> Couldn't it be done via cookie?

<comment><USER6> Sure, but the big problem is not so much the tracking (IP, agent, cookie, etc) but the small number of data points.

To properly evaluate the quality of the data you can get out of a recommendation system, you need to put a useful amount of half-way decent data into it.

It's a relatively small cost to create an account -- it took me less than 30s, most of which was recording a new set of credentials in my password store.

One possibly intentional side-effect of requiring even a very simple registration process is that it may reduce the amount of cruft going into the engine. </speculating>

<comment><USER8> All that is all good and well, but for two things:

\- it took me less time to input enough ratings to get useful recommendations than to register

\- the registration asks for unnecessary information

Solution: if you don't want cruft in your dataset throw away recommendations not linked to a registration. If the users finds the recommendations useful, offer to save the profile by registering.

It's not like you are going to get any less cruft by forcing users tonregister. The only difference is that you are going to end up with a lot of throwaway accounts.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Oh wow, blast from the past. I remember rating hundreds of movies on this back when collaborative filtering was fresh and new...

<comment><USER10> Just signed in for the first time in years... the bulk of my ratings were done in 2002!

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> [http://criticker.com/](http://criticker.com/) is a good alternative. For each movie, it shows you ratings from users sorted by their rating-similarity to you. I've found it really helpful to see all the ratings in addition to getting a predicted rating. I often use the individual ratings to figure out whether a movie is in the cluster of what people-like-me watch, and also to see whether opinion is unanimous or divisive.

<comment><USER8> It might be great, but personally I don't like the UI. The throwback layout, poor spacing and positioning spiced with non-relevant and distracting ads just put me off. But then again that's just me, I bet somebody loves it.

I do however take issue with numerical scoring that is then changed to a value based word score upon submission. People are notoriously bad at scoring things on a 0-100 scale. It also begs the question why there is 0-100 scale when a non-disclosed word score is applied anyway.

The final nail in the coffin was that they lost my activation email and won't let me in without it. To add insult to injury there isn't an option to resend the email. The only way to proceed is to email support and wait upon their indulgence.

NEXT!

<comment><USER11> Yes, it's imperfect and a little ugly.

> then changed to a value based word score upon submission

Your numerical score is still there. You can pretty much totally ignore the descriptors and think of the tiers T1-T10 as percentiles.

> begs the question why there is 0-100 scale

This lets you rate to any granularity you like to precisely order your movies. After you have a large number of rated movies, you might want to tweak the scores to bump a movie into a higher or lower tier.

Also, if you already have ratings in imdb, you can import them with [http://www.criticker.com/?im](http://www.criticker.com/?im)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I rated 43 films, then selected "Top Picks for You" and got 0 results. So I decided to not watch a movie and instead go for a walk. Which turned out to be exactly what I needed. Five stars.

<comment><AUTHOR> Have you tried selecting the "warrior" mode? The same thing happened to me but after I selected "warrior" mode, recommendations popped up.

Edit: It seems that the "wizard" mode is updated daily or so.

<comment><USER8> Same here. The wizard mode seems broken. As soon as I rated more than a handful of movies it started showing 0 recomendations.

<comment><AUTHOR> It seems that recommendations by the "wizard" mode are updated daily or so. I signed up yesterday and got nothing with the wizard mode. It starts to show promising results just now I checked.

<comment><USER8> You'd think that they wouldn't make it the default mode then. Or at least warn the user.

Regardless what the root cause is the end result is that it's broken from a user perspective.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Despite there being so many of these sites, most of them kind of fail for me.

For instance... last night I was wanting to watch a movie, but the kids needed to watch it too (as they can't be left unattended with me watching a movie in the other room :)).

So I went off on a search for a movie to watch... with a rating filter -- it needed to be either G or PG.

Nothing. No recommendation site, Netflix, or anything let me filter movies/shows this way. Yes, you have the 'Kids' section on Netflix, but most of the stuff there is deathly boring for adults, I was hoping for something good for both kids and adults.

I ended up not watching anything.

<comment><USER14> Although not a personal recommendation site, instantwatcher.com allows you to filter Netflix titles by rating and sort by a lot of other useful criteria such as production year, rotten tomato rating etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Something like this would be useful if you could cross-reference your recommendations with others. If I have a set of recommended movies, tell me which movies are also recommended to members of my family, so that we can find the one we are most likely to all enjoy.

</comment><comment><USER16> Neat, I worked on this project while at the U of M under the instruction of now passed John Riedl.

<comment><USER17> Shit, I hadn't heard that John Riedl died. I'm really sorry to hear it. I never had a chance to take a class with him, but Professors Konstan and Terveen were incredibly influential for me.

<comment><USER18> Riedl is the reason I have my job :( I would not be where I am without him.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Proof that Netflix doesn't need all that effort to deliver a laggy, annoying, UI. Seriously, the core functionality is essentially the same. MovieLens seems like it might replace Netflix for me. Not-terrible recommendations and a decent UI. Though I've only been using it a few days so we'll see, but it can barely end up _worse_ than Netflix eh?

</comment><comment><USER20> Any way I can upload my IMDB ratings .csv to this?

</comment><comment><USER21> I can't seem to get past the captcha :( Anyone else?

<comment><AUTHOR> Me too. It seems to depend on browser. I did not pass on Chrome but pass after switching to Safari.

<comment><USER21> Very weird! I just tried in Safari and all I had to do was tick a checkbox as opposed to identifying pancakes and street signs in Chrome.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Very cool, I wish they had a public API to query!

</comment><comment><USER23> this has been one of my favorite sites for years.

</comment><comment><USER24> I'm torn. On the one hand, I just spent a few minutes rating about 100 films, and the quality of the recommendations is so much better than Netflix's garbage that it's mindblowing. As in, we've spent half an hour browsing Netflix trying to find something to watch and settling for something meh, whereas here I have a full page of recs with 5 minutes input.

On the other hand, I don't know if I'm very impressed with anything yet, the recommendations seem obvious. It's more like a neat visual collection manager, I'm not sure I "feel" anything crazy going on in the background beyond what looking at IMDb best-of lists would produce. In other words, the value seems to be in the Netflix-ish "cover collection" display, unconstrained by the limits of their selection.</comment>


Show HN: Find articles you read in the past within seconds - <AUTHOR> https://digital-brain.co/ <comment><AUTHOR> As a power user of Chrome, I've always wanted to go back to certain articles that I had read — but I was always faced with pages and pages of Chrome history.

So we built out DigitalBrain — a chrome extension that automatically will categorize what you're surfing and put it into different buckets+ based on what subject/topic it is using NLP. We also help you annotate and take notes within those articles.

Please let us know what you think, we're happy to answer questions about anything. Let's change how we use our browser history.

Here is the demo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TqLgZPSi-4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TqLgZPSi-4)

Sign-up for early access: [https://digital-brain.co/](https://digital- brain.co/)</comment>


Show HN: Graphite V2 – Cross protocol decentralized productivity suite - <AUTHOR> https://app.graphitedocs.com <comment><USER2> If you just want to see what it looks like: [https://www.graphitedocs.com/img/docs.gif](https://www.graphitedocs.com/img/docs.gif)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hey all! I'm Justin, the founder of Graphite. Graphite is a decentralized, secure, and private productivity suite. Think of it as a secure and private alternative to G-Suite and Dropbox. Graphite has been around for about a year now with continued improvements in that time. But today marks the biggest release in its short history.

Version 2 of Graphite brings the promise of user-selected storage providers to fruition. Users can now select Blockstack's Gaia storage, IPFS, Dropbox, or Google Drive. It also brings the introduction of a new authentication option. Previously, users could only sign in with Blockstack. Now, they can sign in with uPort.

Even with these changes, users will be able to collaborate like they always have, and everything remains encrypted with keys the user owns. Graphite, as far as I can tell, is the first app to offer decentralized collaboration across protocols.

There may be some bugs as this was a huge rewrite of the entire app, so please let me know if you find any. But I'd also love general feedback. Thanks!</comment>


Show HN: Learn how to get press for your startup for free. - <AUTHOR> https://www.mailroom.press/month/ <comment><AUTHOR> Two weeks ago Mailroom Month got to #3 on Product Hunt.

[https://www.producthunt.com/posts/mailroom- month](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/mailroom-month)

We're running a programme that teaches devs, designers, and product people how to get journalists to write about your business, product, startup or idea by using real journalists as examples.

PR is often a huge roadblock for people who can build hot-shit products but struggle to get the media response it deserves.

We send a reporter to your email with expert advice on how to pitch them — every day for a month during July.

We're currently going into our second week so if you enroll today you will have missed a few issues.

However, these coming two weeks focus on tech-only publications so I thought it would be perfect timing to drop in on HN and see if anyone had any questions or wanted to join in.

So far, close to 12,000 have enrolled including employees from some of the largest startups but I didn't want to post here until we'd started getting stuff out the door.

If you have any questions free to reply here, tweet at me @SupArchie or send an email to firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER2> "#3 on Product Hunt" is not relevant, I imagine. This title should be changed.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good point. Just changed it. Didn't expect it to get such a good reception there so thought it might be relevant as a bit of validation.</comment></comment>


Music that upsets expectations is what makes your gray matter sing - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/issue/2/uncertainty/composing-your-thoughts

<comment><USER2> An early cybernetic device interacted with musicians as part of a live ensemble. The machine detected novelty in the sounds it was hearing and would grow "bored" if the musicians' improvisations did not keep up. People who played with it interesting experiences. (I can dig up a reference to this if anyone's interested..)

<comment><USER3> A quick search yields this: [http://www.girlwonder.com/2010/09/a-network-of- constant-inte...](http://www.girlwonder.com/2010/09/a-network-of-constant- interactions-and-communications.html)

      "Gordon Pask developed musical cybernetic systems that count as early
       cyborg hybrids. His 1953 Musicolour machine accompanied musical
       performers. As the performer or group played, Musicolour responded with
       lights and movement to the music would change, creating a sort of
       hypnotic effect for those who played with it. But if the performer
       became too repetitive and did not engage the machine enough, Musicolour
       would grow bored and stop responding—the first cybernetic art system to
       do so. [4] Pask also noted that while people trained the machine, it
       trained them back, creating a feedback loop in which performers felt
       like the machine was an extension of their minds and bodies.[5]"

[4] Gordon Pask, "A Comment, a Case History and a Plan," in Cybernetics, Art, and Ideas, ed. Jasia Reichardt (Greenwich, Conn.,: New York Graphic Society, 1971), 77.

[5] Ibid., 85.

<comment><USER2> For those who asked, yes it was Pask. Cheers biot. I first heard about it in the book "The Cybernetic Brain: Sketches of Another Future" by Andrew Pickering, which contains other eye-opening gems.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Good article and actually having audio to illustrate the things the author talks about is helpful. For people interested in diving into this concept more deeply, there's a whole theoretical/analytical approach around musical expectation that was developed back in the 90s by Eugene Narmour: The Implication-Realization model ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implication- Realization](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implication-Realization)). Interestingly enough, it looks like the predictive power of the model holds up pretty well when tested in the real world: [http://www.erin.utoronto.ca/~w3psygs/SchellenbergCognition.p...](http://www.erin.utoronto.ca/~w3psygs/SchellenbergCognition.pdf)

I've been out of the music theory game for a while, so I don't know if anyone's doing much with the I-R model anymore, but it's a fascinating approach to music analysis.

</comment><comment><USER5> Although the 'Nokia Ringtone' was attributed correctly to Tarrega in a footnote, its title was never mentioned. The piece is called 'Gran Vals'.

<comment><USER6> Just listened to it on youtube - this upsets the expectations by having a ringtone in the middle of some otherwise lovely music!

<comment><USER7> The piece: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQzUx3QW2Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQzUx3QW2Y)

Too right, too right.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> One of my favorite jazz pieces is Happy Madness off a Jobim compilation album. The whole piece tries to get you to hear a specific note, and then tricks you with a different one.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIphJGkY3Rw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIphJGkY3Rw)

</comment><comment><USER9> Now _this_ is music theory! There was this heated discussion back here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8472157](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8472157)

Well, that notation-jargon is still not real theory, and this stuff from the nautil.us link here is. This is the stuff to understand if you want to understand music.

</comment><comment><USER10> Reminds me of the bit about Chopin leading listeners on for the satisfying note/chord in this Benjamin Zander talk: [http://www.ted.com/talks/benjamin_zander_on_music_and_passio...](http://www.ted.com/talks/benjamin_zander_on_music_and_passion)

</comment><comment><USER11> Cool post! I think as technologists seeking to build tools for music creation, browsing, etc. there are some high level points to take from Professor Berger's article. As we deploy machine learning to match listeners and songs, we're often blindly satisfying expectations, when the entire essence of musical experience seems wrapped up in upsetting expectations.

</comment><comment><USER12> This is a cool post, it's interesting how our brains react to unexpected changes in the music. It's almost as though we receive a rush of endorphins when our brains guess the upcoming melody and are proven right, which makes us slightly off put when it is different

</comment><comment><USER13> Article crashed my Firefox on mobile, was wondering why...

Then I did a network trace on desktop and see that the header PNG image is 1 megabyte. The whole page with all those SoundCloud iframes are a whopping 9 megabytes. Ugh.</comment>


I Listened to Emotionally Vulnerable Strangers on Reddit - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@stervy/i-listened-to-emotionally-vulnerable-strangers-on-reddit-c1f70ae727ed <comment><USER2> I mean no harm to op, I'm sure you're a nice guy. But... the header of this post reads like a parody:

> Medium.com

> Ex-product @Google. Philosophy, Minimalism, Productivity

> 3 min read

> I Listened to Emotionally Vulnerable Strangers on Reddit</comment>


Boston Dynamics introduces its latest future robot overlord - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/836363175960403968 <comment><USER2> It gets scarier and more brilliant every time.</comment>


Cross-platform development: Mobile Flutter Apps That Run on the Desktop - <AUTHOR> https://feather-apps.com/ <comment><USER2> What happens if an app is calling something like google sign in? Plugin found here: [https://pub.dartlang.org/packages/google_sign_in](https://pub.dartlang.org/packages/google_sign_in)

Haven't tried it out on iOS but on Android it will prompt a dialog with the google accounts that are registered in Android.

Anyhow, this is really interesting, I'll keep an eye on this.

</comment><comment><USER3> _A compiler and libraries which run your Flutter app on Mac and Windows_

no linux support ?...

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry no - just Mac and Windows for now.</comment></comment>


GitHub system status API - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/blog/1348-github-system-status-api <comment><USER2> This is great. Needs to find it's way into bundler. ;)

<comment><USER3> Bundler is a tool to manage which versions of which gems a project depends on – I don't see how this API could go "into" Bundler. I think you mean that you want somebody to write a gem that provides a Ruby wrapper for this API.

<comment><USER2> Not sure I agree. There is a shorthand github option in bundler already which is there (presumably) due to the fact that a good percentage of the gems are sourced from there.

It would be helpful if pre-bundle update to know that the significant gem source is not available and exiting.</comment></comment></comment>


Thoughts on Yahoo BOSS Monetization (from Duck Duck Go Founder) - <AUTHOR> http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2009/02/thoughts-on-yahoo-boss-monetization-announcement.html <comment><USER2> great post. Where _are_ the competitors in this market? Could duckduckgo have been made with Google tools?

<comment><AUTHOR> Not under their current terms because Google won't let you change the look, content, or order of the results, or let you omit some--all of which I am doing with Yahoo's feed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> We use our own optimized BOSS results as a feature over on <http://bug.gd> \-- and I couldn't agree more with every single one of the points in Gabriel's post.

Yes, it's different.

No, it's not the end of the world for major/medium sites. For our site (and likely DuckDuckGo), the added SLA will be a (perceived) risk softener.

Yes, Yahoo is letting down its new "open" developer community by changing the revenue plans from passive to actively invoicing.

It could be worse-- they could be putting the changes into place sooner. But I think a lot of developers were expecting the passive plan, so offering both options would be better.

</comment><comment><USER4> monetizing BOSS is a decent idea in theory, but its clear they should have telegraphed this earlier in the program

the real issue here is that this will not and cannot reverse an obvious issue with ysearch - it continues to underperform google in use, revenue, and quality. selling ysearch to msft to me is a no-brainer, the costs for running this service are astronomical, the ad system (panama) is a perennial underperformer, and frankly search is not critical to yahoo's bread and butter businesses...banner ads on key properties like news, sports, finance, mail, and groups.

ysearch has never really made financial sense for the company, i suspect bartz will not be religious about making futile frontal assaults on google like jerry was</comment>


Ask HN: Would you fill out a survey after rejecting a job candidate? - <AUTHOR> If you rejected me for an interview or position, or I did not hear back after a while, would you fill out a short survey to help me improve?<p>The questions would be multi-choice, e.g. poor impression of CV, insufficient experience, insufficient qualifications, large number of applicants, etc. May also gauge how likely you would be to assess the candidate for a position in the future. <comment><USER2> Yes!! Definitely, I think it's important to help each grow regardless of whether or not you received a position. I interview about ~10 people a year for my company :)

</comment><comment><USER3> I would, but I expect my HR rep would instruct me not to.

</comment><comment><USER4> absolutely not. only benefit is a lawsuit

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I'm from New Zealand where the work atmosphere is I guess less litigious.</comment></comment>


Life with My Robot Secretary - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcodesign.com/3052646/innovation-by-design/life-with-my-robot-secretary <comment><USER2> I think this is the future of AI services. 100% automated is hard, but 90% is easy and 99% is doable with investment[1].

If you can build a system that is good at knowing the things it doesn't understandand, and can hand them off to humans, if the system can handle a large (and increasing) proportion of the work automatically then you've got yourself a potentially very profitable service business.

This is how Magic ([https://getmagicnow.com/](https://getmagicnow.com/)) operates as I understant it.

[1] Completely made up numbers to support my argument.

</comment><comment><USER3> Just wow.. Kudos to the guys behind this.</comment>


Show HN: Remotion – Quick video chat for remote teams (macOS only) - <AUTHOR> https://remotion.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hey folks,

I'm Alexander, cofounder of Remotion. We help teams get into quick video chats instead of scheduling meetings or texting. This makes remote collaboration faster and less isolating.

We're in beta (macOS only for now) and looking for as much feedback as possible. If you're up for a 15 min video demo/call to share your thoughts and maybe onboard, please email me at alexander [at] remotion [dot] com. Alternatively, if you'd rather just try the product, feel free to sign up directly and shoot me a note with feedback.

Interesting data point from beta thus far: 47% of conversations are <10 minutes—people are getting unblocked and saving time instead of spending hours in Zoom or Slack.

Thanks!

<comment><USER2> This looks great! How would you compare with Tandem?

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I've been using Remotion for the past 2 weeks with my startup twingate.com. Here are my thoughts thus far:

\- It only works if enough people remember to open it every day. We started with just our frontend team of 4 people and since we're at the end of a sprint and doing a lot of code reviews it's been getting a lot of activity.

\- It's more viral than I thought. We went from 4/25 to 12/25 teammates using it in the past week. I typically join a call maybe once a day, but I'm seeing other teammates jump on a call every hour (just saw two people start talking while I was typing this comment).

\- The UI is small so it's fairly easy to ignore (especially on a big monitor)

\- Since videos are limited to a small circle, ending calls after 5 minutes feels more natural than ending a Zoom call

\- Screen sharing is pretty good, but you can't limit sharing to just one app

My theory on why Remotion has picked up so quickly with our team: Working remotely can be lonely. By no means does this _solve_ loneliness, but it definitely gives you back a slice of that working-in-an-office vibe.

</comment><comment><USER4> My wife's company has been using Remotion and she says it's sped up decision making and helped the team feel closer together</comment>


Ask HN: What do you use to host/publish your blog? - <AUTHOR> I've gone through a bunch of different ways of publishing my blog, from Wordpress to static site generators and ultimately Medium. They all had their issues, but a recent thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15507538) brought this back to mind<p>My question is, what do you use for your personal/company blo, why, and would you recommend it? <comment><USER2> I have 2 blogs, both on WordPress. My web development blog is on a DO droplet and uses the Roots stack, Trellis, Bedrock and Sage. [https://roots.io](https://roots.io)

I've done a lot of WordPress development, custom themes mostly. I can't always use Bedrock and Trellis due to hosting constraints, but I would never choose anything other than Sage for a theme development project.

The Roots projects have always been ahead of the curve as far as WordPress development goes. Whether it's things as simple as name spacing, or actually taking advantage of PHP 7 features, to using Composer to manage dependencies, gulp to automate build processes, Ansible for automated provisioning and deployment....

I could go on and on, but I'm loyal to these tools because they've consistently pushed me to learn new things. I also enjoy the workflow.

My personal blog is hosted by Automattic, on WordPress.com, strictly out of convenience.

I'm looking around at other options however. I've thinking it might be time for me to move on from WordPress. Partly from the Roots stuff constantly driving my curiosity, and partly from being unhappy with the direction the WordPress project as a whole is taking.

I've been looking specifically at Ghost, Craft, various flat file solutions, and have even been considering taking a crack at building my own blog with Python. (Python because I've been learning it and have really been enjoying it)

</comment><comment><USER3> We had been using Ghost to host our company blog (via Digital Ocean) it has been super super easy not to mention the cost is dirt cheap on DO. I would recommend it for a few reasons. 1) Easy to use editor to write the blog posts (W/drag and drop image insertion) 2) You can find a perfect template and easily upload it to the blog, and tweak as needed. 3) They have AMP templates.</comment>


Ask HN: What kind of philosophy do you read? - <AUTHOR>

I have been fascinated with ethics and questions on free will recently but the historical philosophical discussions tend to be too boring and use unnecessarily complex words to explain the concepts. That puts me off. How often do you read philosophy and if yes, how do you deal with the style of writing?<p>Or maybe some of you think reading Science in general is better investment of time? <comment><USER2> One of the things I learned quickly when I became a philosophy major is reading philosophy is a skill. I remember the sensation of realizing I had read six pages of Descartes _Meditations_ and had been at it for an hour. Philosophy requires unpacking in some of the same ways a book about a programming language written without mercy for beginners will.

To a first approximation, if I am reading philosophy these days it's Wittgenstein's _Philosophical Investigations_ unless I am looking for a reference [e.g. last week I looked at Putnam's _Reason Truth and History_ because I was thinking about the ant's portrait of Churchill in relation to the role of interpretation of data. I'll also find myself in Plato occasionally...though that's often via the internet rather than the bound Jowett volumes.

Stretching philosophy a bit, I am these days often looking at logic and mathematics, and regretting a bit roads not taken. These have the same interest in accurate language I enjoy.

Anyway, reading philosophy as an investment sounds horrid. Read something you enjoy.

[edit] You might enjoy the philosophy bites podcast: [http://www.philosophybites.com/](http://www.philosophybites.com/)

</comment><comment><USER3> If you haven't already read them, Sam Harris' Free Will and Moral Landscape are totally worth reading.

[http://www.amazon.com/dp/1451683405](http://www.amazon.com/dp/1451683405)

[http://www.amazon.com/dp/143917122X](http://www.amazon.com/dp/143917122X)

</comment><comment><USER4> My favourite is Nietzsche's "Genealogy of Morals". Here is a taste, from a section on punishment, in his second essay (text from [http://home.sandiego.edu/~janderso/360/genealogy2.htm](http://home.sandiego.edu/~janderso/360/genealogy2.htm)):

In order to give at least an idea of how uncertain, how belated, how accidental "the meaning" of punishment is and how one and the same procedure can be used, interpreted, or adjusted for fundamentally different purposes, let me offer here an example which presented itself to me on the basis of relatively little random material: punishment as a way of rendering someone harmless, as a prevention from further harm; punishment as compensation for the damage to the person injured, in some form or other (also in the form of emotional compensation); punishment as isolation of some upset to an even balance in order to avert a wider outbreak of the disturbance; punishment as way of inspiring fear of those who determine and carry out punishment; punishment as a sort of compensation for the advantages which the law breaker has enjoyed up until that time (for example, when he is made useful as a slave working in the mines); punishment as a cutting out of a degenerate element (in some circumstances an entire branch, as in Chinese law, and thus a means to keep the race pure or to sustain a social type); punishment as festival, that is, as the violation and humiliation of some enemy one has finally thrown down; punishment as a way of making a conscience, whether for the man who suffers the punishment— so- called "reform"—or whether for those who witness the punishment being carried out; punishment as the payment of an honorarium, set as a condition by those in power, which protects the wrong doer from the excesses of revenge; punishment as a compromise with the natural condition of revenge, insofar as the latter is still upheld and assumed as a privilege by powerful families; punishment as a declaration of war and a war measure against an enemy to peace, law, order, and authority, which people fight with the very measures war makes available, as something dangerous to the community, as a breach of contract with respect to its conditions, as a rebel, traitor, and breaker of the peace.

</comment><comment><USER5> I like Badio.</comment>