Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 - <AUTHOR> https://community.logitech.com/s/question/0D55A0000745EkC/harmony-link-eos-or-eol?s1oid=00Di0000000j2Ck&OpenCommentForEdit=1&s1nid=0DB31000000Go9U&emkind=chatterCommentNotification&s1uid=0055A0000092Uwu&emtm=1510088039436&fromEmail=1&s1ext=0 <comment><USER2> Well if this isn't the most validating and ringing endorsement of privately- hosted, open source home automation stuff like Home Assistant [1], I don't know what is. I rigged it with $2 of infrared LED transmitters and receivers hooked to my raspberry pi and automated my TV, stereo, and air conditioner [2]. I am so glad I did this now. I think there is big business, on the order of a full-on electrician, in going around and setting up Home Assistant, some zwave stuff, some IR stuff, etc. in people's homes.

[1] [https://home-assistant.io/](https://home-assistant.io/), very recently discussed on HN: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15521743](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15521743)

[2] [https://partofthething.com/thoughts/adding-a-ir-send-and- rec...](https://partofthething.com/thoughts/adding-a-ir-send-and-receive- capabilities-to-my-home-assistant-based-smart-home/)

<comment><USER3> That's great and I hope there's a fantastic open source community for home automation, especially as I'm getting into it myself this season. But I would wager 99% of home automation consumers won't, don't, or can't do DIY software solutions. So I'm not sure this bonehead move by Logitech really validates the DIY solution, as I don't see one covering the others' market.

<comment><USER4> > But I would wager 99% of home automation consumers won't, don't, or can't do > DIY software solutions.

It's more about hardware. Good luck getting your fire insurance cover damages when your Alibaba sourced board that you operate on the mains (via Alibaba source AC/DC converter) fries your living room.

The issues with DIY here are not hard issues in themselves (grounding, heat protection/ventilation), but they require a custom casing solution which is kind of hard if you don't want to end up with weird looking industrial cases on your wall and ceiling.

<comment><USER5> You can build a system that simply controls commercially sourced, UL listed, mains equipment. That top level comment mentioned using IR but you can also control cheap 433Mhz outlets with simple transmitters and a library like rc- switch for arduino[0].

Home assistant also integrates well with openzwave so you can use most zwave devices including a variety of switches.

[0] [https://github.com/sui77/rc-switch](https://github.com/sui77/rc-switch)

<comment><USER6> Yep, that's exactly how I automate a room fan to turn on over the winter, when the humidity is too high.

A respectable 433MHz controlled plug, an arduino, 433MHz TX and a humidity sensor.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is one reason I don't want to buy into a single IoT thing which depends on a cloud-component in order to work.

Because those are not things you buy to own. Those are things you rent and which only keep working as long the owner is willing to keep them running.

<comment><USER8> I have come the same conclusion after the YouTube app on my smart tv of 4 years old was bricked. I still don't know the best way to avoid this issue going forward (chromecast, roku, other).

<comment><USER9> My approach is to compartmentalise functionality. I have a dumb screen with a Chromecast plugged into it. The screen is the much more expensive part of this setup, but should last for a long time. It supports inputs which will almost certainly be usable, perhaps with dongles towards the end of its service, for at least a decade, if past tech is anything to go by.

The Chromecast could be discontinued tomorrow, but it only cost £30, so I'll just replace it with whatever. Relying on your expensive TV's probably terrible and badly supported software is madness, but it's what most people seem happy to do. It's getting harder and harder to buy TVs that are not smart, and I find it maddening.

I take the same approach with Speakers.

<comment><USER10> Non-smart TVs are mostly inferior panels now, as I understand it.

<comment><USER11> It may be about time to buy only dumb monitors, and buy the television tuner portion as a separate box, if you even still need one.

Of all the television sets I have owned since 1985, the native tuner included inside the device has been used maybe 2% of the time. The only advantage I have ever seen from buying a display screen as a television set is that it comes with speakers loud enough to hear from across a large room, and has as many as six different input ports. None of the screens I now own currently decode their own NTSC/ATSC/QAM signals.

My first "smart" TV was also my last, because LG made it obsolete within months of me buying it. Now it also functions only as a dumb screen, and is not allowed on my home network. Never again.

You don't need a smart television now. You don't even need a television. You need a monitor with HDMI inputs and speakers.

<comment><USER12> I went down this path a few years ago. You're right, but monitors of size X tend to be much more expensive than TVs of size X. At least they did a few years ago.

<comment><USER10> Monitors are less expensive at small sizes, I think. But otherwise I would agree.

<comment><USER11> And at this point, I would be willing to pay slightly more to _not_ pack stuff into the case that I don't want, which may negatively impact the features that I _do_ want.

And if you want a DisplayPort input in lieu of one of the HDMI sockets, that seems to add at least $30 to an otherwise identical monitor, even though DisplayPort is royalty-free. There does seem to be an attempt to segment the market to charge more for displays connected to a computer than for displays connected to a home entertainment appliance.

At larger sizes, I think the assumption is that if you don't have a TV tuner, you're attaching it to a computer, and if you do, you're not. And that breaks down at smaller sizes, where resolution and pixel pitch become an issue for computing, but less so for consoles and DVD players.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I don't understand this. So just because Logitech doesn't see it as feasible to renew a technology certificate with some company, they have to step on their consumers who've already spent their money on Logitech's product?

That's just horrid, and a bad look (and bad consumer relations). I might he stating the obvious, but if a company is going to temporarily license a technology and then develop a product for consumer markets they would do well to continually renew their certs. To do otherwise and act how they did seeds doubt: are we simply buying into a temporarily functioning product that can cease functioning at any time at the whim of the manufacturer? If so why are we buying from them at all if the product we get isn't truly ours?

<comment><USER14> > are we simply buying into a temporarily functioning product that can cease > functioning at any time at the whim of the manufacturer?

This happens a lot. I own several software/hardware products that no longer function because the ecosystem moved on and the company stopped updating the software (either for business reasons or because they simply went out of business)..

The hardware itself is totally fine, I just can't use it anymore because the closed-sourced software is not available or not compatible with my operating system(s).

And it is a bad look for sure. I'm definitely not buying any products from any of those companies anymore.. The ones that still exist at least.

<comment><USER15> Happened to me with a Samsung "Smart" TV which used to have Skype on it, but Samsung removed that app for no reason that benefitted me.

And I have a perfectly functional Epson printer/scanner whose only drivers no longer work on Windows 10.

I could go on and on. That's just what came to mind with 5 seconds thinking about it.

<comment><USER16> > Samsung removed that app for no reason that benefited me

I think it was Microsoft who decided to stop supporting Skype for TV, not Samsung [1]. Did you find a replacement? Perhaps a third-party device that could be connected to TV? I am in the marker for a living room Skype system and I can't find anything suitable.

[1] [https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/8/11178976/microsoft- skype-f...](https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/8/11178976/microsoft-skype-for-tv- support)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Logitech Forums censors "class action lawsuit" as a swear word!

<comment><USER18> What about "clbutt action lawsuit"? :P

<comment><USER19> If have thought 'clarse action' would've been the more obvious substitution. ;)

<comment><USER18> Yea, that one is definitely more readable - mine was a play on "The Clbuttic Mistake" \- [http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The-Clbuttic- Mistake-](http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The-Clbuttic-Mistake-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Seems like it's only the Logitech Link product, not all Harmony remotes.

I've been buying used/refurbished 880 remotes online for the last few years. I still think it's the best IR remote ever made.

<comment><USER21> I have a Logitech Harmony Hub with simple remote, and I would say the radio control (non line of sight) between remote and hub is great. The hub has the ir transmitters in it, and it's sitting inside a cabinet with everything else, and there's an external ir blaster that sits just above to control the tv.

Mine controls tv, Nvidia Shield, Logitech z5500 speakers, and a Blu-ray player. I believe the Shield is controlled by Bluetooth.

Because the Shield is a Google cast receiver, I can press the music button and it leaves the tv off but allows us to cast music (or just play something from the shield with sound only). Everything else is as straight forward as you'd expect, one litmus test is that visitors are able to figure it out easily. I used to have one of the remotes with an lcd screen and I'm not sure it was as straight forward, partly because the remote was so intimidating.

<comment><USER22> Harmony Hub w/ simple remote is the best universal remote out there hands down. I can stand in the kitchen, leave my remote in my pocket while cooking, and just reach in and blindly adjust things like volume, play/pause, FF/RR, all without looking at the remote or taking it out of my pocket. After dealing with a logitech with a screen on it for years this was an amazing change. Also the battery last for like forever.

<comment><USER23> I also added an amazon echo to my harmony hub, and I can use some voice commands (turn tv on/off, pause play, volume). It's a pretty good set up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> One pleasant surprise that I had with my new receiver that I hadn't realized: Modern HDMI has a control bus that will replicate commands like powering on, changing channels, changing volumes, etc. along the bus and other compliant components will play along.

That means that with my receiver and TV, my Xfinity remote is able to control everything I need it to in my entertainment center.

I was getting kind of bummed about the sad state of Logitech Harmony remotes as my old one was failing on me - but it turns out that it no longer matters.

<comment><USER25> Which can be a pain in the rear. I was having a problem with my TV turning on randomly. It turned out that when my Amazon fire was waking up (no clue why it needed to), my TV registered the signal and turned on automatically.

Luckily you can disable the CEC stuff on the TV, which solved the problem.

<comment><USER26> Some TVs you can disable the power on feature specifically without disabling CEC completely. I have the option to do so on both my Samsung TVs and my LG one too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> If in Europe: please contact your local consumers organisation or legal assistance insurance and go get your rights! We need case law to go all the way up, even on the smaller losses usually involved in consument product conflicts.

Irregardless of small print, if it's not clear from the outset there is some part of 'lease' (of certificates) involved it seems pretty straightforward to annul your agreement of purchase once the product stops working within the period you could normally have expected it to function correctly. (Even if it is clear from the outset, the day my Philips Netflix-integrated TV With Netflix Button (R) stops showing Netflix, I'm going for it.)

The nice thing about annulment is 100% money back. The less nice thing about anulment is that it is the store that has to pay you back, not the companing producing the product. They need to sort out liability among themselves. It's producers thinking this is acceptable behaviour that starts it. The retailer is only the middle man.

</comment><comment><USER28> Logitech has a bad track record when it comes to hardware that requires ongoing services. I was a Logitech Alert customer, and had nothing but problems with both the hardware and the software. Their power line adapters would take down my entire network. And the software was buggy to the point that it was unusable.

They've abandoned the line of products and a class action lawsuit is in process.

<comment><USER29> In reality, they all do. This isn't just a logitech issue.

Remember that Microsoft couldn't even keep up their DRM servers for their Zune. I would think out of any technology company, MS would be the __last __to drop support for infrastructure.

It's just safer to consider any "cloud required" device to be a rental. Now, its up to the user if that rental is a good deal or not. Sometimes it can be (chromecast). Other times, it isn't.

<comment><USER30> Bingo on cloud required. Devices should be able to work cloud free (stand alone) or cloud enabled.

Maybe PWA's can become the default offline first configuration web interfaces of devices, and sync while the cloud is still available.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Brand loyalty is not rewarded. I will never buy into IoT exactly because of d*ck moves likes this. I also love how they inform the owners 'sorry we're killing your device, but you're entitled to a discount to buy a replacement from us'. Nicely absent is the reassurance they won't pull exactly this stunt again with the replacement hardware!

Also: short paragraph: bad news, device being killed. Longer paragraph: sales pitch...

I'll probably keep buying Logitech peripherals because they are very good quality, but the moment they make a cloud-dependent mouse, I'm out.

</comment><comment><USER32> I found a review of the Harmony Link because I have no idea what, exactly, it is. From what I can tell it's basically an IR blaster that can be controlled via an iPad/iPhone/Android app. There are some value-add features, like access to local TV listings from the app. It sounds like there were limitations, such as not being able to actually schedule recordings from it - in fairness, the review I found was from 2011 and firmware/app updates may have changed this.

But at it's core, the device is an IR blaster accessible over some sort of network interface. It makes no sense that this would NEED some kind of cloud service for regular operation. I can, however, see two pieces that greatly benefit from a cloud service:

1) Initial setup. There are constantly new TVs, DVD players, cable boxes, etc with their different IR codes and quirks. The cloud service would be a good way to house this database so that it can be continuously updated without needing to push a firmware and/or app update. Each firmware/app update could include a base set of IR codes, or all codes as of the time the update was built, so that you can get base functionality without needing the service. Once you've picked a set of devices it can download the codes once and not require continuous access.

2) TV listings. This seems to be one of the value-added features with the Harmony and there's no realistic way to bake this into the app or firmware. This needs to be a cloud service.

Sure, maybe the TV listings will go away, I get that. I even get that they may want to discontinue the product and no longer support the app. But that's no reason to brick a bunch of devices - just say to people "This is no longer supported, the app may stop working with future OS updates, and the TV listings are going to go away."

Ideally they'd also say "Here's our internal API guide that the hardware guys gave to the software guys, enjoy". And in a perfect world, "Here's the github link to our firmware source code that we just released under a BSD license, enjoy."

</comment><comment><USER33> Umm, is this actually happening though? Teh linked forum post is just speculation and then a bunch of people freaking out...

<comment><USER34> According to a Reddit user [1] they sent the following email to all device owners:

\---

Dear [...],

This is an important update regarding your Harmony Link. On March 16, 2018, Logitech will discontinue service and support for Harmony Link. Your Harmony Link will no longer function after this date.

Although your Harmony Link is no longer under warranty, we are offering you a 35% discount on a new Harmony Hub. Harmony Hub offers app-based remote control features similar to Harmony Link, but with the added benefit of the ability to control many popular connected home devices. To receive your discounted Harmony Hub, go to logitech.com, add Harmony Hub to your cart, and use your personal one-time promotional code [...] during checkout.

Thank you for being a Logitech customer and we hope you will take advantage of this offer to upgrade to a new Harmony Hub.If you have any questions or concerns about Harmony Link, please email the Harmony customer care team.

Regards,

Logitech Harmony Team

\---

1: [https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/7bg8gi/logitech...](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/7bg8gi/logitech_is_killing_all_logitech_harmony_link/dpi31yu/)

<comment><USER35> Damn.

That's a shitty way to do it. The better way would be to give them a two year notice, with the discount. By the end, most people would probably have upgraded.

<comment><USER36> "By the end, most people would probably have upgraded.".

Or switched to a different product. IoT products shouldn't depend on the cloud -- or they should explicitly indicate a certain number of years of support based on the purchase date (so the customer knows what they're signing up for)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> This raises a good point of why connecting gear to the cloud that doesn't need to be comes to bite ya.

Ongoing cloud costs for eol products will kill old products quicker.. That shouldn't be connected to, or rely on the cloud.

I own harmony hubs and will have to figure out how to leave.

EDIT: I'll look for products that are hybrid-cloud enabled - ones that offer locally stored and run backends (perhaps an offline-first progressive web apps as control panels that can sync to a cloud API if it exists).

<comment><USER37> Yes, my reaction too is that it means I can't trust my Harmony Hub won't get similarly ditched, so I'll be looking for non-Logitech alternatives. Even if it ends up never being affected by the same, they've ensured I don't trust them any more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> "But remember that this thing came out in 2011, and since then it has been replaced by the $100 Harmony Hub. The Hub, which has the same features plus new ones focused on the smart home, is what Logitech is offering to Link owners as consolation. Anyone with a Link that's still under warranty can upgrade to the Hub for free. If your Link is outside that one-year manufacturer's warranty, you can get 35 percent off when buying a Hub from Logitech's store."

So Logitech is going to scrap an ancient piece of hardware that relies on expensive cloud infrastructure and they are willing to give people a newer version that does all of the same things (and more) for free, and people are complaining?

If you don't want companies to do this with cloud based hardware, you will have to be prepared to pay subscription fees to cover ongoing cloud infrastructure costs. The profits from the sale of the device don't stretch to infinity. It's just basic economics.

The other option (if you don't want cloud based infrastructure) is that you could run your own home server, but then you are going to have to worry about 24/7 connectivity, SSL, firewalls, mobile push nightmares, and all that.

</comment><comment><USER39> This review from 2011 shows how the Harmony Link works, and that it requires a MyHarmony.com account to set up a device, and to control it from an iPhone: [https://www.engadget.com/2011/10/11/logitech-harmony-link- re...](https://www.engadget.com/2011/10/11/logitech-harmony-link-review/)

You don't buy a product which solely depends upon a free online hosted service and then bitch after 7 years of using it for free. Yes, it would be _nice_ if Logitech released its server-side code so people could host the service themselves, but that would require a firmware update too as MyHarmony.com is almost certainly hard-coded in the device.

Personally, I learned this lesson in 2002 when the Dreamcast's online services were terminated after only a year. It's too bad other people didn't seem to notice the parallels in 2011. But the suggestions of "class action lawsuit" is just stupid. You can't sue a corporation into running a free service for you that it never guaranteed in the first place.

</comment><comment><USER40> Logitech is one of these hardware companies that don't care anymore about their customers, the other is Microsoft. I would like to buy new Logitech mouse and keyboard, yet the discontinued the very popular (and best) Logitech MX500/518 and G400 series. The best form factor, the best sturdy robust mechanics, yet the discontinued those series. And they focus now on expensive shitty new designs that no one needs. The same dysfunctional customer experience is with Microsoft hardware, all the great mouse (Intelli series, 6000 series) and keyboard (cable based, robust, traditional key arrangement) products, all discontinued. So I had to locate new unused hardware produced by MS & Logitech many years ago from all over the world, just to have some backup hardware. And no I don't want your crappy new hardware that will make my hands hurt.

<comment><USER41> Fortunately there are a lot of good options for mechanical keyboards from smaller vendors. I haven't been able to find a decent trackball (I miss the old corded thumb trackball Logitech used to make), though :(

<comment><USER42> Logitech just released a new trackball mouse, I believe it's called the Logitech Ergo. It's very nice. I recently swore off buying Logitech products because of bluetooth connectivity issues, but I still bought it because it seems to be a lot easier on my hand (right hand only I believe).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> It's not too difficult to build your own IR blaster that is controlled by an app. I wrote an Arduino library that lets you send device-specific IR commands based on a generic LIRC configuration file. I run it on an Arduino101 and send commands to it via Bluetooth LE. Currently using it with a Windows service for climate control in my rental apartment.[1]

I could share more source code if anybody is interested in doing the same thing.

[1] [https://github.com/dantler/infrared-remote- sketch](https://github.com/dantler/infrared-remote-sketch)

</comment><comment><USER44> Hopefully the FTC will take notice of this one.

<comment><USER45> And do what? Logitech hasn't established a specific duty (inc. contract) to keep their devices online for any length of time. So therefore the only test might be "reasonable expectation" which is a pretty low bar.

The FTC are likely pretty powerless in this situation. Only negative PR and taking your business elsewhere may assist here but given the lack of competition in this space, good luck!

<comment><USER44> They shamed Google/Nest into full refunds for bricked Revolv iot hubs. This situation seems similar.

[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/15/ftc_lets_nest_off_h...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/15/ftc_lets_nest_off_hook_over_revolv/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I had a harmony link that literally never worked. I complained to Logitech and got a discount for the harmony hub. Wasn't that happy about it but overall have been pretty pleased with Logitech products and support. And I do love my hub now that it is integrated with Alexa, etc.

</comment><comment><USER47> Are there any alternative servers and Hub/Link firmware out there that we can run ourselves? A quick search isn't turning up anything. I'd rather not give up Harmony remotes; I use my Xbox One as my main media center and the Harmony Remotes are probably the easiest method for controlling it.

</comment><comment><USER48> This is exactly why I went with SimpleControl and an IR blaster. I saw the writing on the wall with the Harmony platform, and it really is a product that a small team can maintain. SimpleControl is far from the only app in this space, but their solution fit my use case best.

</comment><comment><USER49> I think the censoring of words and phrases like "class action lawsuit" is the big news here.

</comment><comment><USER50> This will teach them the consequences of buying Logitech products when they might depend on an online component outside the owner's control. With luck, it will merely teach them the consequences of buying Logitech.

</comment><comment><USER51> You can bet this will happen with all the early adopter smart home devices like Samsung Smart Things once Amazon's and Google's hubs become the standard.

</comment><comment><USER10> What in the hell? I can't see how anyone thought this was a better choice than letting them go outside of a support window.

</comment><comment><USER52> So there is no reason as to 'why' they are being bricked. They just are doing it for the money?

</comment><comment><USER53> Only related, and maybe it's because it's hard to differentiate themselves but I always felt there was only mediocre products and companies in the space of mouses and keyboards (other than kb with cherry mx switches). Moreover their softwares/drivers are usually even worse than their hw.

<comment><USER54> As with most things, you'll only find mediocre products if you don't look very hard. Most people would scoff at a keyboard that cost more than $50, and so almost every store stocks keyboards that cost less than $50 and are as mediocre as they come.

I would also encourage you to look into the broad range of keyboards and pointing devices that exist out there. Mechanical keyboards are more than just Cherry MX switches. In terms of pointing devices, I use a CST Trackball for instance, and it's borderline industrial.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> they did this a year or two ago with their old security camera system and revue set-top-box.

</comment><comment><USER56> I've always found logitech devices to feel sluggish, similar to KDE. Too much pizazz.

</comment><comment><USER57> I've always found logitech devices to feel sluggish, similar to KDE. Too much pizazz.</comment>


Apply HN: Remember – Intelligently search all of your files from one place. - <AUTHOR> Hello HN!
Remember is an intelligent personal search engine that lets you find every moment of your digital life.
We connect to your computer, phone, wearables and the services you use (Facebook, Twitter, mobile apps, etc.) and make all of your data searchable from one place. Going a step further, we run machine learning algorithms on all of your files to understand context so you can search using natural language.
We lose so much time looking for our files; be it notes, messages, photos, videos, audio recordings.
"Let me show you a video I sent Jack it's hilarious!" Stares at phone for 15 minutes looking for it
"I have a breakthrough idea about mitosis, let me write it down." Never gets back to that note again
This must end. We want to help maximise human potential, and we think this as close as we can get to having perfect memory with today's technology.
Founders:
Mert Erdir - Experience Design: BA Product Design in Milan, Italy. Ex-brand ambassador for Samsung, Timbuk2, Betabrand.
Fun fact: http://gizmodo.com/5809621/how-to-upgrade-to-ios-5-today-wit...
Nisan Gulsar - Experience Design: Advertising student. Weteraanikonepaivat (Finland) and Sinfonia di Fiori (Italy) art festivals.
Yigit Demirag - AI Researcher: PH-SFT at CERN (Switzerland) , Google Summer of Code, Bilkent University Nanotechnology Research Center
Kerem Gunes - Back end dev: KAREL Electronics
We know that this is insanely hard to build. We're not saying it's a piece of cake for us, but we're planning to get there by keeping learning and working. If you would love to have instant access to all of your life's work and memories, vote for us!
Demo: We have a demo, but for technical reasons I can't just post it here yet. You can sign up to the newsletter on our website to be the first to know when the beta is out. If you can't wait, send me an email and I'll send you the demo link: email@example.com
http://remember.ai <comment><USER2> Apparently great minds think alike.

[http://datalba.com/](http://datalba.com/)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11484635](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11484635)

</comment><comment><USER3> Would love to use it!

Keep constantly catching myself on the idea that having this kind of search would be so much of use and then here you are.

Good luck, upvote!

</comment><comment><USER4> [lol] trying hard with created-1-day-ago-accounts, eh? you should try again with a working demo.

<comment><AUTHOR> Posted this on facebook, friends chose to support. It's obvious to everyone that accounts with no karma won't get anyone anywhere. But it's nice to have people rooting for you. Even though they didn't happen to be long time Hacker News users.

Thanks for taking the time to check the accounts of commenters. While you're here, would you mind sharing your feedback about Remember? We'd appreciate it!

Edit: Feel free to reach me out via email for the demo.

<comment><USER4> It's not hard to see all new accounts as HN mark them as green, no need to check. I think it is a bad idea trying to boost your submission artificially. It would be great if I can try it immediately, but I don't care enough about the product to go over email. Good luck with your endeavour.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is super cool but what do you mean by intelligently?

<comment><AUTHOR> Conventional desktop and personal search is limited to keywords or exact dates. Humans are not great at remembering those. We're using IBM's Watson, Imagga and our proprietary algorithms together to understand your files. For example; if you took a note about Pablo Neruda, Remember knows he's a poet and you can simply search for your "notes about poetry". If you're looking for a video from the skiing trip you took, just search for that "skiing video from last winter".

Next step for us is to make Remember train itself. Currently you have to teach the faces of people in your life by manually tagging photos in order to organise by face. We're working on using social media data that's already available. Remember will learn your girlfriend's face out-of-the-box because once you connect to Facebook, it will look for your relationships and use your girlfriend's public photos to learn her face all by itself.

All in all we belive this is "intelligent search".

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Looking forward to see the demo. Go Remember Go!

</comment><comment><USER7> I need this in my life! Hope you make it guys.

<comment><AUTHOR> Me too! That's actually how we came up with Remember. We were spending so much time searching for stuff instead of finding :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Great product and great team, go!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you!</comment></comment>


Button Board - Surf the web with only your mouse - <AUTHOR> http://www.buttonboard.com/ Using this site, you can do some basic web surfing using only your mouse.<p>Use Button Board If: 1) You are eating a sandwich with one hand. 2) You have a touch screen. 3) You hooked up a PC to your TV and only have a wireless mouse. 4) You want to avoid any keyboard phishing. 5) Your keyboard just broke. 6) You have a movement disability that makes the use of a regular keyboard difficult. 7) You can't see your keyboard because it's dark and you can't touch type. <comment><USER2> Great. This is a usability improvement. And could be used to defend against key loggers.</comment>


Go 1.5 Beta - <AUTHOR> http://golang.org/dl/ <comment><USER2> Really wish these HN links to download pages were HTTPS. Lots of people at Gophercon on untrustworthy conference wifi that probably wouldn't notice a MITM'd download page pointing to non-HTTPS binary downloads.

<comment><USER3> Yep, the link should be [https://golang.org/dl/](https://golang.org/dl/).

Work is ongoing to make golang.org be HTTPS only.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> changelog: [https://tip.golang.org/doc/go1.5](https://tip.golang.org/doc/go1.5)

It seems to me like they've included Google's trace viewer[0] into the go tool, nice.

[0][https://github.com/google/trace-viewer](https://github.com/google/trace- viewer)

<comment><USER5> From the changelog: > Builds in Go 1.5 will be slower by a factor of about two. The automatic translation of the compiler and linker from C to Go resulted in unidiomatic Go code that performs poorly compared to well-written Go. Analysis tools and refactoring helped to improve the code, but much remains to be done. Further profiling and optimization will continue in Go 1.6 and future releases.

This seems quite a drastic change. I thought compilation speed was one of the pilars of go. In that light, why did they decide to release this anyway?

<comment><USER6> Compilation speed was just a gimmick anyway; the compiler is fast because it doesn't do many expensive optimizations. It was like bragging that using "-O0" makes a compiler so fast. There are languages that require a lot of work just to compile at all, like C++, but for most languages slow compilation is more a measure of how advanced the compiler is.

And it's not just the compiler, the linker didn't even know if a package is used or not, which is why you have to manually remove unused imports (otherwise they would be linked in, bloating the binary).

<comment><USER7> This is plain wrong, the main reason the compiler is fast according to the authors[1] is because it handles dependencies more sanely than C/C++.

[https://talks.golang.org/2012/splash.article](https://talks.golang.org/2012/splash.article)

<comment><USER8> You're more than welcome to write C in the fashion that the go compiler enforces, and get much faster builds. Their compiler is young and immature relative to things like GCC and stating that it may be missing expensive optimization features is not "plain wrong".

<comment><USER7> That suggestion is not really practical as you need to make the same requirement from all your third party libraries. While gcc will spend more time optimizing than go, the main reason for the speed difference at the moment IS unnecessary work done by the preprocessor because of the primitive importing.

<comment><USER9> No, it's not, unless you count time spent compiling inlined functions and templates as "preprocessing time" (which it isn't—it's compilation time). Time the difference between clang++ on -O0 versus -O3 if you don't believe me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Of particular note, Solaris support in Go 1.5 is greatly improved thanks to the work of Aram Hăvărneanu; Oracle sponsored most of that work.

Notably, cgo is now supported on Solaris as of Go 1.5 beta.

The same should hold true of various OpenSolaris-based distributions such as Illumos, et al.

<comment><USER11> You welcome. Mdb, DTrace, and SPARC64 support coming soon too...

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> > The DNS resolver in the net package has almost always used cgo to access the > system interface. A change in Go 1.5 means that on most Unix systems DNS > resolution will no longer require cgo, which simplifies execution on those > platforms.

This is great news if you're on one of those systems supporting it, using the net module and don't like the libc dependency, or if you're doing a lot of concurrent DNS requests.

</comment><comment><USER13> If you use Go and you can, please try it out and file bugs. [http://golang.org/issue](http://golang.org/issue)

</comment><comment><USER14> I'm excited to see experimental support for vendoring. One nice thing about go is that the dependency management is part of the core language design, but it always fell flat when you needed specific versions of a library. Vendoring solves that huge issue, I hope it works as nicely as they claim.

</comment><comment><USER15> These are pretty big to me:

 _The garbage collector is now concurrent and provides dramatically lower pause times by running, when possible, in parallel with other goroutines._

 _By default, Go programs run with GOMAXPROCS set to the number of cores available; in prior releases it defaulted to 1._

But how important is this? It doesn't seem like it affects the average user:

 _The compiler and runtime are now written entirely in Go (with a little assembler). C is no longer involved in the implementation, and so the C compiler that was once necessary for building the distribution is gone._

<comment><USER16> Rewriting the compiler in Go was a precondition for improving garbage collection, according to Rob Pike. The old C codebase was complex and finicky, and, to an increasing extent, contributors to the Go language often know Go better than C.

So, that more complex garbage collector is a product of that less-sexy rewrite.

<comment><USER15> Great explanation, that explains a lot!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > The "stop the world" phase of the collector will almost always be under 10 > milliseconds and usually much less.

Well we can toss out Go as a suitable language for real-time applications such as video games and audio processing.

<comment><USER18> Why the down-votes, I think this is a valid point. In case of real-time, e.g. video games, you want to render every ~15ms and doing that with a GC is really NOT trivial. I do not say, GC-languages perform bad, they actually are great for throughput, but doing low-latency stuff is still hard.

<comment><USER19> The new GC reduces pauses to the single-digit milliseconds. Rendering every ~15ms seems reasonable under those constraints. Plus I don't think a game engine will typically put a lot of pressure on the garbage collector.

I don't think the new GC precludes Go from being suitable for writing games. On the contrary, I think it is now more suitable, and look forward to using Go for writing games myself.

<comment><USER18> It is funny that just after I wrote this, I spotted another article on the frontpage: [https://sourcegraph.com/blog/live/gophercon2015/123574706480](https://sourcegraph.com/blog/live/gophercon2015/123574706480)

So I admire their goal to reduce latency (it's probably a latency-throuhput tradeoff) and I always get told that real-time (which in my opinion requires low-latency) is possible in GC-languages, I just do not know how to do that reliable. But I hope I am wrong and it is possible to go real-time with a GC as it is often a prerequisite for high-level language features.

<comment><USER20> ISTR that producing a clean sign wave on a scope requires a real-time operating system, and it was one of the first tests for seeing if your real time linux patches worked.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> > Also in the crypto/cipher package, there is now support for nonce lengths > other than 96 bytes in AES's Galois/Counter mode (GCM), which some protocols > require.

This should be "96 bits".

</comment><comment><USER22> Wrong binaries in go1.5beta1.linux-386.tar.gz, don't work on linux 386. Looks like they are for amd64.

<comment><USER19> Thanks for the report. We're using a new tool to roll the release binaries, and you have discovered a bug. On it.

<comment><USER19> It's now updated. Please download the new file (sha1 70112cca6a7225bacac4a32ffab2d97bcd7613f4) and confirm that it works for you.

<comment><USER22> It works now. Thanks. Even tried cross-compilation, works too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Has anyone spotted the documentation for the new shared library system yet? Plugin-based architecture is one of the biggest things I've wanted in Go and it seems to finally be happening.

<comment><USER24> The closest thing to documentation is still the design document: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nr- TQHw_er6GOQRsF6T43GGh...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nr- TQHw_er6GOQRsF6T43GGhFDelrAP0NqSS_00RgZQ/view)

I've been playing around with it, here's a neat example that does shared library partial bindings for http.Server in C and Python: [https://github.com/shazow/gohttplib](https://github.com/shazow/gohttplib)

<comment><USER25> Is it possible to dynamically load libraries that have been compiled with -buildmode=shared in runtime from within a running Go program? The design doc talked about it IIRC.

<comment><USER26> According to the release notes [1], "For the amd64 architecture only, the compiler has a new option, -dynlink, that assists dynamic linking by supporting references to Go symbols defined in external shared libraries."...so I assume if you want all of your Go signatures visible in your shared Go libraries, you can do it on x64. I have not tested this myself.

1 - [https://tip.golang.org/doc/go1.5#compiler](https://tip.golang.org/doc/go1.5#compiler)

<comment><USER25> the question though is how do you go about actually loading it? can it be done without patching the runtime, or without running some C based "bridge" that loads the shared object file? I'm talking about a plugin architecture, say, where I want to load an implementor of an interface from a .so file, etc.

<comment><USER26> Based on a cursory overview of the design document, this appears to be done by not putting all of the Go signatures in the library (e.g. ELF headers somewhere) but instead based on a hash. From the design document [1]: "The shared library should include a hash of the export data for each package that it contains. It should also include a hash of the export data for each shared library that it imports. These hashes can be used to determine when packages must be recompiled. These hashes should be accessible to any build tool, not just the go tool." To me this is basically saying that so long as the hashes of the .so file match your binary, your dynamic load should be able to trust the uses of the same interface known at compile time.

I have not yet seen the "plugin" package in [https://tip.golang.org/pkg/](https://tip.golang.org/pkg/) as promised under the heading of "A new package" in the design doc.

1 - [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nr- TQHw_er6GOQRsF6T43GGh...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nr- TQHw_er6GOQRsF6T43GGhFDelrAP0NqSS_00RgZQ/view)

<comment><USER25> But I'm wondering - will this mysterious "plugin" package require changes in Go's core runtime, or can I implement whatever functionality it will expose right now. It looks to me like it can't be done without some C bridge/glue while not changing Go itself.

<comment><USER27> The mysterious "plugin" package does not yet exist, and won't be in the 1.5 release. I would encourage you to try to implement it and send in the changes. The ideas in the execution modes doc are being steadily filled in by people who need them.

<comment><USER25> Do you have any pointers as to where do I start? I mean I can see how I can probably do it with a C bridge, but I don't know the runtime well enough to attempt to do it without it. Glad it's written in Go now :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Can anybody clarify what is meant by " Generate machine descriptions from PDFs (or maybe XML).", " "Read in PDF, write out an assembler configuration"."? That sounds . . . ambitious.

[https://talks.golang.org/2015/gogo.slide#22](https://talks.golang.org/2015/gogo.slide#22)

<comment><USER28> Here's an example: [https://github.com/rsc/x86/blob/master/x86.csv#L37](https://github.com/rsc/x86/blob/master/x86.csv#L37)

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> go1.5beta1.darwin-amd64.tar.gz don't work on mac os x 10.10

<comment><USER19> It works on my 10.10 machine. Can you please file an issue?

[https://golang.org/issue/new](https://golang.org/issue/new)

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Thread on mailing list:

[http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.go.general/159797](http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.go.general/159797)

</comment><comment><USER31> cool Release! i realy like the all the improvements in tooling. thx!

</comment><comment><USER32> is this worth learning

<comment><USER33> [http://javascriptissexy.com/understand-javascripts-this- with...](http://javascriptissexy.com/understand-javascripts-this-with-clarity- and-master-it/)

<comment><USER32> what does this have to do with go</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: A workout logger written using React/Redux - <AUTHOR> https://ewolo.fitness <comment><USER2> You may want to change the wording on the "Why Ewolo?" page. At a glance, it looks like you are saying it is: platform specific, not user friendly, and not flexible.

That may just be for users like me who see the title, then go straight to reading the bullet points.

<comment><AUTHOR> Reworked the text - hope it reads better now: [https://ewolo.fitness/why- ewolo](https://ewolo.fitness/why-ewolo)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> A couple of other cool features in the works are

\- Add goals and ability to track weight

\- CSV export, take your data and use excel to make your own charts if you're looking for something specific

\- Youtube links to videos for exercises for proper form.

A really cool long term feature would be to use some ML to allow exercise discovery / make workout recommendations based on goals.

All feedback is welcome!

(Edit: formatting)

<comment><USER3> Feedback:

A way to rearrange exercises

A way to change the exercises I do in a workout over time (common practical point many gym trackers miss)

Tracking a down or up set (weight starts at 100lb but next set you do 90lbs)

These are all things you'll run into once you start using tracking/logging apps substantially.

I've worked on my own tracker for these reasons and more, but can definitely attest that features for a logger come best by using it yourself for months to years before committing to new (potentially unimportant) features. Some of the features you mentioned (YouTube vid links for example) are not things you really want or need (and can clutter) a tracker- whose point is to TRACK not TEACH.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi! Thank you very much for the feedback and I already have moving exercises around in the pipeline.

This is a very useful feature and but mostly useful for post workout logging and I decided to defer it to the next release which should be in a month or so :)

An easy way to increase/decrease weight is also a great idea.

Cheers,

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Workout logging is an interesting product/User Interface problem. There are a lot of workout logger apps, but not a single one has emerged as a clear leader in the space. Why is that? Also, a lot of tech savvy people that go to gym, still use the trusted pen'n'paper approach. Why is that?

One reason is that training regimes differ a lot - a single app is unlikely to be a good for strength training (training is build around 3-5 big movements with a few auxiliary exercises), body-building (more movements) and crossfitting.

Other reason is that convenience of pen and paper input is still hard to beat, and for reason or another, people don't get enough value from the digital views to their training history and performance.

<comment><USER5> For me, its about not unlocking the phone everytime (i am used to screen locks) after minute (typical set duration) and log my stats. So I prefer pen and paper. What would be cool though is the ability to log my stats using voice input and that would be easier and more convenient as I am almost always with my headphones (with mic support). So, then I can simply say something like "exercise 1..set 2.. 12 reps.. 80 pounds" and it should log it. This will save lot of efforts to take out my phone and log workouts manually..

<comment><USER6> I'm assuming you have a home gym because I can think of nothing more silly than being the guy sitting on a bench in my crowded commercial gym speaking his stats into a phone.

<comment><USER5> No. I don't have home gym. But, my gym is nearly empty during my workout times (6 am mornings). But, I wouldn't care and use mic even in crowded gym if its more convenient. :P

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> There is also /r/bodyweightfitness excellent recommended routine app on [https://github.com/mazurio](https://github.com/mazurio) iOS and Android - compiled versions in [http://www.bodyweightfitness.co.uk](http://www.bodyweightfitness.co.uk)

</comment><comment><USER8> Looks pretty cool. I also recently developed an app to track strength training workouts. I also used React/Redux for the web app. The iOS app is native though (supports offline mode and offers Watch app) and Android is in- progress.

[https://www.rikerapp.com](https://www.rikerapp.com)

Good luck with your app!

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, I just checked out your app and a few quick notes:

\- the web version costs money after 90 days but the app is free. Why the differences?

\- it seems that I cannot add any other exercises apart from the ones provided, would be nice to be able to quickly log what I wanna do.

\- the records list view on mobile is a bit squished (i.e. I find it difficult to horizontally scroll)

\- no support for super-sets: I do a lot of circuit training and I somehow managed to add this feature to Ewolo using a rest parameter. I'm still not sure what the best way to model this data would be without making it cumbersome.

Anyways, nice work though that you got a web and a native iOS app out there. It seems that making a nice, simple workout logger is not the easiest job.

Good luck to you as well!

<comment><USER8> Thanks for checking it out - really appreciate the feedback. Some responses:

"the web version costs money after 90 days but the app is free. Why the differences?"

Because the web version stores your data on my server (and thus making it syncable to all your devices) - and so for that capability (and to cover my server operational costs), it's a paid feature. But if just using the iOS app, all of your data is by default stored locally on the device (I'm using Sqlite for that), and so that's free (since I don't incur any operational costs for that).

"it seems that I cannot add any other exercises apart from the ones provided, would be nice to be able to quickly log what I wanna do."

I thought about that in the beginning, and ultimately decided against it for simplicity; and would instead go the route of incrementally adding more and more exercises myself to the app. But will perhaps re-think this.

"the records list view on mobile is a bit squished (i.e. I find it difficult to horizontally scroll)"

Will look into this. I'm currently using an OSS library for the records display, and so I'll see if there are params I can tweak.

"no support for super-sets: I do a lot of circuit training and I somehow managed to add this feature to Ewolo using a rest parameter. I'm still not sure what the best way to model this data would be without making it cumbersome."

I also struggle with how to model supersets - more so from a UX standpoint. You're totally right - you'd think a rep tracker would be easy, but as you get into it, there's quite a bit of complexity that emerges. I think I have a good way to handle supersets, but that will have to be for a future release...currently trying to get the Android app (and Gear app) done.

Thanks again for the comments.

[edit - typos etc]

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I actually built something similar using React/Redux, but I've been moving away in favor of plain old Javascript. Usually I'm working out at home and using my laptop, but if I'm out at a friend's house, I'm using an old iPad. There was a noticeable lag, doing certain things on the React/Redux stack, that disappeared when switching to plain JS.

[https://getsore.com](https://getsore.com)

</comment><comment><USER10> Iphone - Safari (incognito):

\- if I switch from kg to lbs via button I will see lbs only for new/re-added exercises with the same kg->lbs button (I can still convert but the label says lbs instead of kg)

\- if I register I get error with registration (maybe because of 2letters as full name?) however I hit register again with same data and now account already exists error.

</comment><comment><USER11> Nice work and nice idea, a clean and functional UI can be motivating in and of itself. But definitely rework this part:

> To convert from kilograms to pounds, enter the weight in kgs and hit the > convert button. To re-enable the button delete and re-add the exercise.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you very much! Yes, it seems that the units are a real pain point. This will be customizable in the next release.

Would you believe it if I told you that I myself use Kgs and need to convert every time? I had to make some decisions for an alpha release and this was one of them (I just picked the lower unit as default)!

<comment><USER11> It's more that functional buttons shouldn't just disappear like that. Why not have it change to "Convert to Kgs" when the input is in pounds?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Doesn't render anything at all if cookies are blocked. So many times but it's not getting to me.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ruh ROH - you shouldn't really need cookies at all, I'll have a look asap and see what's wrong!

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I have looked a while for a good app to log strength training workouts. I'd invite you guys to check out Progression App [http://www.progression- app.com/](http://www.progression-app.com/). I honestly don't think there can be much better than that.

It's only Android so admittedly doesn't solve the multi-platform issue.

</comment><comment><USER14> why is it's only merit that it's built with react/redux? Is it not enough to solve a particular problem of workout tracking, that you must do so using the development framework of the day?

also:

> Account only required if you wish to save your workouts.

this is a WORKOUT LOGGER. What am I doing, as a user, if not logging my workouts? There is no other value proposition. Users do not benefit from entering their workout histories and NOT hitting save - and this site only does one thing. It would be like seeing in a food store "checkout only required if you wish to purchase your items".

As an effort to launch a product, it's commendable. Lots of checkboxes to hit, and not nothing to hit them. But if you're ACTUALLY trying to launch this as a real service... There is much to be desired - and it has nothing to do with CSV exports or using react to do it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello and thanks for your feedback!

Part of making this service was to learn React/Redux and see how different it is to Angular. I've read quite a bit but there's nothing quite like learning by doing something bigger than a todo app - the front-end is open sourced on Github and I plan on writing a few blog posts on what I've learnt building Ewolo, hence the title.

Regarding the text, I wanted to let people know that they can try out the interface without needing an account. I agree with you that it sounds a bit dumb and I'll try to word this better :)

If you have any more ideas on what it would take to really hit it out of the park, I'm all ears!

<comment><USER15> I'm trying to learn React/Redux - do you have any tips/guides on learning how to get register/login working?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes I can definitely try and help you to the best of my ability. Feel free to email me: firstname.lastname@example.com

Also, just to let you know that my timezone is CET :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Always nice to be able to log your bodyweight when you exercised

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, this is a crucial feature that is coming verrrry soon! It's especially motivating to see how well you have done compared to how much effort you put in.

This plus some neat graphs on what your personal records are :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Was it necessary to mention React/Redux in the title? What value does it bring?

<comment><AUTHOR> I've been reading and doing tutorials but I wanted to build something useful to really be able to compare it with angular/jQuery (where most of my experience has been).

I plan on writing a couple of blog posts on what I learnt as well plus the front-end is open-sourced on Github :)

I've been using Ewolo heavily myself and thought that it might be useful for others as well.

<comment><USER17> React and redux have nothing to do with the product usability. No one gives a fig about what technology is being used under the hood if you only provide the link to the final product.</comment></comment></comment>


Google announces next Chromebooks and a Chromebox (desktop replacement) - <AUTHOR> http://chrome.blogspot.com/2012/05/next-step-in-chrome-os-journey.html <comment><USER2> I think whats unsaid here, and particularly telling about the Chromebox, is that Google is gunning to be a replacement for Windows in the workplace.

The ISO certification of google apps, a cheap desktop replacement directly integrated into google products, a laptop that keeps in sync with its desktop counterpart, these are all significant steps into creating a fully cloud-based workplace.

A chromebook may not become your home computer but it may soon be the cheap laptop the IT guys at your work start issuing to employees who don't need the heavy lifting power of a mac or windows machine...

<comment><USER3> Google may gun for whatever it wants to, but sales of Chromebooks have been really dismal so far, and I seriously doubt the Chromebox is going to be much different.

>but it may soon be the cheap laptop the IT guys at your work start issuing to employees who don't need the heavy lifting power of a mac or windows machine...

The Chromebook isn't much cheaper than equivalent laptops with which you can access Google apps as well as run other programs.

<comment><USER4> I would consider this the "test" phase for Google. They are testing the waters, getting feedback, and adding as needed. Agile development applied to hardware - and (I hope) soon coming to Motorola.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't get it. And I'm almost a Google fanboy. I got a chromebook at Google IO last year. I use it very sporadically .. typically when my iPad is out of power.

The chromebox looks nice .. but can it really compare with a Mac Mini I have hooked up to my TV? I thought Google TV was supposed to take on that role.

Google TV, Android and Chrome ... there can only be one!

<comment><USER6> Google TV is Android 3+ with some UI changes to make it better suited for TVs. Eventually, I think they will merge Chrome OS's great looks into the Chrome app for all platforms (especially Android), or at least do some kind of merge with Android and Chrome.

<comment><USER7> I don't like the idea of having "one UI" for all form factors, like Microsoft tries to do. I think that will only lead to being optimized for one form factor, and significantly underoptimized for others.

Personally, I'd like to see them use some kind of "UI modes", so you have a phone mode, a tablet mode, a TV mode, and a desktop mode (which may or may not be the same as the tablet one, but would probably be better if they are kept separate).

Of course, they should still make them resemble each other as much as possible, but you can't use a tablet UI for a TV, and you can't use a phone UI for a desktop monitor. So when I dock the phone into a PC monitor, I want to see the desktop mode, and when I dock it into the TV, I want to see the TV mode, and so on. I don't think there is such thing as "one UI for everything". It may be good for one form factor, but for all the others it will be mediocre at best.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I cannot believe the pricing fail here. It's insanely overpriced for what it is -- and the reality is -- from someone who has tested one of these new Chromebooks -- the thing STILL has major usability issues. Chrome OS has too many bugs to depend on even if you live in a Google-fied cloud-centric world.

Still, on what planet does $330 for a desktop and up to $550 for a netbook make sense, especially when you don't get a Windows license (assuming you're selling to schools and businesses here)?

The netbook is dead and the iPad is the product that Chrome OS's target customers are actually buying in droves.

<comment><USER9> If you don't like it, don't buy it. I personally think the Chromebook is more useful in both education and business than an iPad. Although perhaps not as useful as a slate might be (but those will cost >$1000 give or take and Windows 8 is looking to be maybe not as good as people were hoping).

What if you lose or break your computer - something that happens all the time in schools - with a chromebook it doesn't matter, just login to another one. In businesses, the chromebook would require virtually zero IT overhead. What if you don't want to spend extra on overpriced apps with less functionality than free ones in the browser (like Pages vs. Google Docs + Google Cloud Print) What if you actually want to quickly type up documents/code without having to pay an extra $60-$75 for a keyboard?

It's $550 for a 3G chromebook, compared to $629 for a 4G or $529 for a 3G ipad. Pretty comparable - not to mention the firmware on the chromebook is open so I would expect to see people running ubuntu or android on these devices, too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> [http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/slick-new- chromebook-...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/slick-new-chromebook- first-chromebox-desktop-out-from-samsung-today/)

</comment><comment><USER11> The Chromebox feels about $180 too expensive.

<comment><USER12> compared to what?

<comment><USER11> Compared to what I need and what I'm willing to spend for the features the product offers. It fals short of what I need a desktop to do, so that means it's better suited as a TV-connected device. But the GoogleTV does much of what you'd want a Google device that's connected to your TV to do and only costs $100. Alternately, many TVs will offer GoogleTV integration if that's what a consumer really wants. Or, if you've got an Apple ecosystem of devices in your household, the AppleTV and Mountain Lion will likely offer you better connectivity for that content. If you're a gamer then an XBOX360 and the myriad of supported streaming services it now offers (Amazon, HBO, MLB, etc.) can stream the most-common services to your TV. But let's say your desktop computing needs are different than mine, and you still want a desktop PC. A cheap Inspiron offers all of the Google browser-based services PLUS you can run all of the Windows applications too, so why not go with that instead? You can get an underpowered device that can do basic desktop stuff for less than this costs, or if your needs demand it, you have the option of adding better hardware to meet your specific needs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Edit: Apparently there are shortcuts that are not typical on Windows that apply to the Cr-48. I was a dope with my chromebook all this time! I should have known better.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts#Tex...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts#Text_editing)

Original comment:

Unfortunately these laptops still have the same problem as the original Cr-48. None of these keyboards are suited for basic text editing as they lack the home/end/delete keys, which would be a minimum for a lot of people, and the entire 6-key cluster still-in-place would be much preferred.

This is the keyboard, by the way, which is identical my old Cr-48:

[http://ecx.images- amazon.com/images/I/815Dnur3O6L._AA1500_.j...](http://ecx.images- amazon.com/images/I/815Dnur3O6L._AA1500_.jpg)

Making blog posts, using google docs, jsfiddle, Ace, StackOverflow, etc. All of these are a frustrating experience after a while if you are used to using a normal keyboard and are then forced to forego the home/end cluster.

If the difference between a tablet and a Chromebook is a keyboard, why can't they take writing seriously?

<comment><USER14> Macs don't have home/end/delete. Personally I don't miss them.

<comment><USER15> They kinda do, actually - fn+left/right is home/end, fn+up/down is pageup/down, fn+backspace ("delete") is forward delete.

<comment><USER16> I like the way you said kinda - sometimes they aren't as you would expect.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> If I am able to watch videos that are stored on my Google Drive on a Chromebox connected to a television I would be very interested in this.

<comment><USER18> For $200 you can get a Boxee Box from Dlink, which has a HDMI out, a very slick remote and will play back 1080p videos over wireless from any network share (it's basically a physical manifestation of VLC).

<comment><USER17> Currently using a WD Live which does pretty much all you said although the interface is kind of poor. Only paid $50 though, but I'll check the Boxee out.

<comment><USER19> The Boxee is based off of XBMC so it will be a night&day improvement over the WD.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I'm glad to see them iterating, and in exactly the way they should -- The original Chromebooks were a neat concept, but too underpowered.

</comment><comment><USER21> But can something like the chromebook survive in a ipad world? Maybe for some, but while I could be in the market for a chromebook (if it came before the ipad I would properly own one) but a tablet fits my 2nd computer device much better.

I can survive with only a chromebook, so it would need to supplement my main computer, and in that regard I think my ipad (or properly a android tablet) is a much better suplement.

<comment><USER8> No. It can't. And that's why it has been an utter failure in the marketplace.

Google toyed with subsidizing the costs more to try to use it to push more enterprise services to business and education customers but it never gained traction (and from I understand, they were practically willing to give them away).

The large-scale use case for Chrome OS is minuscule.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> So Chromebox is Mini-ITX, or is it smaller?

I sure hope this inspires other companies to release more smaller desktops. I don't see any reason why we should have to keep lugging around giant boxes anymore.

And actually you can get very powerful systems in Mini-ITX now, doesn't have to be bargain-power like these Chromeboxes on Amazon. Although dual-core is probably more than enough for most things.

</comment><comment><USER23> Sigh, this sounds neat "The new Chromebook and Chromebox, based on Intel Core processors, are nearly three times as fast as the first-generation Chromebooks."

Except when you click the 'buy now' and go to either the NewEgg or the Amazon store all you get are Atom N570 choices or the Celeron for the ChromeBox. Did somebody forget to the HW guys to use the new Ivy Bridge processors?

Is this some sort of weird "Quick lets announce something before Apple creams us with the new Macbook Pro?" (ok that is a bit cynical but still). I'd love to see the 'new' Chromebooks that can compete with the 'old' Macbook Air because I'd love to have something with the build quality of the Air and the simplicity of ChromeOS to recommend to my non programming friends. You're letting me down Google, bad dog, no biscuit.

<comment><USER24> Why would Google push towards the high end? They already have people complaining Chromebooks cost too much. It would be a massive waste of money and effort to build MacBook Air style Chromebooks, with an absurdly small market even if done well. And I don't think Google could do that well.

<comment><USER23> I would love to hear more about how you reason to "absurdly small market."

When I look at the market, and especially after the pretty remarkable success of the iPad, I see a clear line from smartphone, through smart tablet, to smart laptop. My expectation is that Apple will release an iOS based version of the Macbook Air for just this reason.

This is my reasoning for that expectation. The iPad has taken a chunk out of the laptop market. A number of folks who would have bought a laptop bought an iPad instead this year. The number one reason that folks give for _not_ replacing their laptop with an iPad is that "they can't type on it." and carrying multiple elements around (bluetooth keyboard etc) is inconvenient.

When you get a device which has a high quality screen, and an attached keyboard, and can be used anywhere on 3G, you will capture a much bigger chunk of the laptop market.

Now granted, I've been working this since 1999 when I pitched the 'appliance' laptop to Venture funds (they declined to fund because they didn't feel anyone could ship a product against windows and succeed), and I pitched it to the Android team when I was at Google (and while I take no credit at _all_ for ChromeOS it did a lot of the things I had proposed in my JaDE project, so they were on the same wavelength). When I did my VC pitch I had commissioned some surveys and found that a significant chunk of people who owned a computer didn't want the "compute" part, they wanted just the web browsing/emailing/document prep part. Further it _bothered_ them that their computer had all this stuff that they never used, and was often a source of exploits by third parties.

So as I pushed inside Google for this the primary push back was "Ok, I got that already, its my phone doofus. C'mon network computers are soo last century, didn't you work on diskless workstations back in the stone age? How did that work out for you?" And I get that its not very sexy to propose the 21st century equivalent of the VT100 but that did not change the fact that the _data_ says that people want these things.

So I keep hoping Google will/would step outside their complexes and build a laptop killer. And they are getting closer and closer. These machines are clearly an improvement over the first generation both in software and in hardware. I feel like they had an opportunity here to get out in front of Apple, but given the announcement I don't think they did.

For me, it makes June 11th (Apple's WWDC keynote) more interesting than it might otherwise have been.

<comment><USER24> I have no doubt that "network computers" are going to have a bit of renaissance soon. I just doubt that people will be in a rush to buy a $1000 version. People may like simpler computing experiences, but they won't buy just based on that. The iPad took off cause it is a sexy (and fairly cheap) product. The simplicity just enhanced the experience. High end Chromebooks would basically require the purchaser to value simplicity over everything. They would have to not buy cheaper computers that check off more features and can even run Chrome themselves. And I just think the amount of people who are aware of their limitations and will spend more than the average person to accommodate them is very small.

<comment><USER23> Thank you for that response.

What is really cool is that we may see folks actually get this choice and then we can come back around and talk about it again.

A funny (and true) story: I got to intern at IBM in the late 70s. The Altair 8800 was getting a lot of press and Apple had just jumped in with the Apple II. I lusted after a Sol-80 at the time. Anyway, there was an on going discussion at IBM as to whether or not anyone would really pay what it would cost to make a "real" computer for individuals. So they built one, it ran a hacked up version of the software their other computers ran called TSO/MVS. It had a very serialized 370 architecture to cut down on complexity, and limited batch capability. It would have retailed for about $17,000 to make the kinds of margins IBM expected. (many of the parts got reused in the 5100 but that is different story)

It was a total failure of course, nobody wanted a computer for themselves, it was just a bunch of overly ambitious EE's over promising and under delivering by using calculator chips to make something that could run stored programs. IBM was not a calculator company, so that was a market they weren't going to enter. A complete renegade at IBM had a different view and built their vision in a widely derided project in Boca Raton FL (even _then_ it wasn't much of a tech bastion). The resulting machine, the IBM PC, was a huge deal. And like the iPad it surprised its own maker at how many they sold.

I relate that story because I think we're on the cusp of one of those changes. My instincts tell me that this is one of those times when renegades have an advantage over the common knowledge. I call it out so that folks can watch it happen, or not. I'm really going to feel foolish next year if nothing has changed but I'm totally ok with that. At the moment it feels like Christmas Eve to me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> The chromebox really needs to be $200. I have a Cr48 and I went and threw Win8 Consumer Preview (and it runs VS2k11 Beta - not the best experience but it is not unusable) on it. Maybe 1 or 2 iterations later, this will be a very competitive offering.

</comment><comment><USER26> Does this raise the chances for a "Google Drive for Linux" release within the next weeks?

<comment><AUTHOR> Chrome OS is a very different beast from desktop GNU/Linux distributions so I don't think that's a fair assumption.

<comment><USER27> It's really not, once you get beneath the user-facing skin (most of which is, obviously, implemented as just a bunch of Chrome extensions). It's a Linux distro running X.org. It's much (much!) closer to Ubuntu or Fedora than it is to Android.

<comment><USER7> I believe it was built in Ubuntu. I know they worked with Canonical on it before they announced it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I'm really sad that the Chromebox only has Bluetooth 3.0 (not 4.0/LE), and the Chromebook 550 doesn't seem to list Bluetooth at all.

LE would be amazing for the kind of corporate environments the Box would work in -- as a user presence/locking token.

</comment><comment><USER29> Despite the initial Chromebooks being widely considered a failure, they push on with the next iteration of this product. Google has the kind of determination that only obscene amounts of money can buy.

<comment><USER7> It was mostly a pricing failure, one which they unfortunately repeated again this time. Yes, it did have usability problems, and it has been greatly improved, but you know as they say: there is no bad product, only bad pricing.

Chromebooks would sell for $200, or free on contract with LTE. They won't sell for $450.

<comment><USER30> $30 a month for business customers if they'd open it up to the general public. And with a few meg of free 3g.. I can imagine that taking off nicely.

I'm waiting for them to get rid of the 3 unit minimum.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Do you still have to use a google account to use chromeos?

<comment><USER32> I believe you can sign in as a guest, but it won't save your browser settings. Since ChromeOS is all about having data "in the cloud" and keeping as little mutable state on the computer as possible, I guess this makes sense.

Can we coin an abbreviation for "in the cloud"? I put it in quotation marks to avoid the unconscious eyerolling that I do when I use that phrase in a non- ironic fashion. "ITC"?

<comment><USER31> PLAYD - possibly loses all your data?

How's that one?

<comment><USER33> Google's data centers are slightly more reliable than the average laptop hard drive.

<comment><USER31> But are they as reliable and available as a laptop and a USB stick? That's a hard one to prove.

<comment><USER7> I assume they make back-ups all the time, so yes. Definitely more reliable for most people.

<comment><USER31> That's a pretty big assumption, for example:

[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/09/atlassian_cloud_stor...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/09/atlassian_cloud_storage_outage/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Google's still trying to sell netbooks? Really? Sometimes I wonder if they are aware that the iPad has completely obliterated the market for underpowered/overpriced netbooks.

<comment><USER14> Completely different market. People don't type on an iPad for long periods.

<comment><USER34> So there's actually a market of people that don't want a fully capable laptop, and don't want a tablet + external keyboard, and want a web-only miniature laptop? I think these Chromebooks are targeted at market that actually does not exist.

<comment><USER35> And this based on what? One data point (You)?

<comment><USER36> Please stop. We don't always have to ask for data to prove one's opinion. Opinions are opinions, you can have them without data to back them up, basing them on your own experience, they are still valid. If you have a different opinion discuss that instead of just dropping the stupid [citation needed].

I'm not saying whether I agree or not with the OP, but I certainly disagree with your way of having a discussion by not having one.

Also certainly Chromebooks are somewhat puzzling because of their overlap with Android tablets, especially ones like the Asus Transformer to which you can attach a keyboard and have basically the same thing with a slightly different OS that sync your data everywhere anyway.

Having a discussion on how they are different and why both would be useful is an interesting conversation to have, shutting it down with "where's your data" is stupid.

So, if you want to discuss, provide your reasons why they are useful instead of trying to shut off people with petty arguments.

<comment><USER35> I'm calling out the arrogance of people to make conclusions just based on one data which is usually just their own.

In my other comment, I said I don't know anybody who watches Big Bang Theory. But I can't make a statement that nobody watches it just because I don't know anyone who does.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Good Idea to Build Web Apps with Polymer Today? - <AUTHOR> I've inherited a Polymer application that is a little out of date and I've been coming up to speed on it and also looking at upgrade paths to the latest version.
The application isn't too big so migrating to something else would be possible and I'm trying to weigh my options here.
I'm hoping to hear from people who have built or currently developing Polymer applications and others who've investigated using it but decided against.
I have some concerns about continuing to use Polymer however because the documentation feels pretty bad, compared to other web frameworks. The testing suite they implemented I'm not sure really if it's stagnated or not (web-component-tester) and overall there doesn't seem to be a lot of development on Polymer in general.
I've heard a lot about web components and how "they're the future" talk on here, but I also only ever here Polymer mentioned when there's a web assembly or web components topic posted on here so the usage feels rather small (I've spent most of my time developing React applications for context).
I do really like how portable web components are. It's much easier to write up a web component than it is a react or vue component and the ability to port those around the application is very convenient.
Thanks for any feedback! <comment><USER2> We're using Stencil.js in my company right now, but almost went with litElement(the tech underlying Polymer) instead. I think Ionic's commercial support is what swayed us, although I would personally have been happier (arguably) with litElement.

I think it's viable, absolutely.</comment>


Ask HN: Are you using AngelList for recruiting? - <AUTHOR> I'm curious who out there is using AngelList for recruiting and what your experience has been like.
How are you managing candidates and the process after you've been connected via AngelList? Sticking with emails back and forth? Moving to another system?
We've posted some jobs and have received a flood of candidates and it's a bit overwhelming really to manage it all.
How are y'all solving this? <comment><USER2> We use AngelList at 42Floors and have developed a pretty good system. We have four positions posted ([https://angel.co/42floors](https://angel.co/42floors)) and get a steady stream of applicants across all roles daily.

To manage the process, we've designated our product manager to handle the inbound engineering interest and our customer support manager to handle the inbound sales, ops, etc. interest. When a match is made on AngelList, we have a simple form email that allows an interested candidate to schedule a 10 minute Skype call with someone on the hiring team to discuss the position and the candidate's background. We have three employees who do these Skype calls, and each blocks off 1-3 hours per week for Skype hiring calls (allowing us to do 18-54 initial Skype screens per week) in just 3-9 total hours. Last week our team spoke to ~30 sales/ops candidates and 5 engineers. If we like the candidate and they like us in our brief 10 minute call, we bring them in for lunch, and then eventually, for a project.

My email's in my profile if anyone wants to know more.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the detailed response! Sounds like that is working pretty good for you guys.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is interesting. I am building a applicant tracking and organizational system right now. Never thought about applying it to AngelList, but that would be a good market.

</comment><comment><USER4> There's a really great tool called www.theresumator.com out there that is easy to use and works great. (I don't work for them, I work for SAP.)

As for AngelList, I've got a posting out there for a co-founder but not getting many hits but that's due to it being an equity thing with no pay.

You can definitely find people on there and they are fairly responsive.

</comment><comment><USER5> @bradleyjoyce

I am trying to create a service in this space. Basically I help you sort/search through all the resumes, obviously after knowing your requirements well enough.

If you are interested, send me an email at email@example.com. I can provide you with details.</comment>


Apple's Strengths and Weaknesses - <AUTHOR> https://stratechery.com/2017/apples-strengths-and-weaknesses/ <comment><USER2> > iPhone growth may be slowing in the face of saturation and elongated update > cycles, but that only means there is that large of a base from which to earn > App Store revenue.

An interesting point. But revenue from app services has to be pennies per customer; very little in the face of device revenue per customer.</comment>


France Gives in to the Hashtag - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/opinion/france-gives-in-to-the-hashtag.html

<comment><USER3> "Mot-dièse" isn't even a correct translation. It is literally translated as "sharp-word", so there is a confusion between 2 distinct signs:

\- #, the "croisillon" sign (hash)

\- ♯, the "dièse" sign (sharp)

Therefore the literal translation should be "mot-croisillon", not "mot-dièse".

And on the subject of the the Académie Française, the Commission générale de terminologie et de néologie and the Délégation générale à la langue française et aux langues de France (DGLFLF), the problem is that they often try to find translations to words that, in my opinion, shouldn't be translated.

For example, the DGLFLF has a website [0] where people can suggest french translations for english words. Here are some words from the website that it is pointless to try to translate:

\- BitTorrent

\- barcamp

\- Facebook

As a result, the proposed translations are often ridiculous (filoutage, langage à objets, offre groupée).

Another problem is that the people working there are not technology-fluent. That's why they come up with wrong translations such as "accès sans fil à l'Internet" ("access without wire to the Internet") for Wi-Fi, which is incorrect as a Wi-Fi connexion does not always imply an Internet connexion.

That said, some english words have a great french translation :

\- firewall -> part-feu

\- mailing-list -> liste de diffusion

\- byte -> octet

[0]: [https://wikilf.culture.fr/](https://wikilf.culture.fr/)

</comment><comment><USER4> I think the Académie Française is doing a very poor job. In Québec we have the Office Québécois de la Langue Française, which is much better at finding French equivalents to modern technology terms. A few examples:

\- Cloud Computing -> Infonuagique

\- E-Mail -> Courriel (vs. France's mél... how the hell do you pronounce that)

\- Hashtag -> Mot-clic (it is indeed a keyword, "mot-clé" that you can click)

And a whole lot more...

<comment><USER5> Don't forget the wonderful "pourriel" mixing "poubelle" (trash can) and e-mail to designate spam, If only it would have crossed the ocean.

<comment><USER6> I always thought pourriel was from "pourri" (rotten/lousy) + "courriel".

Both convey a correct meaning for spam!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Linguistic purity movements continue to strike me as largely pointless. It seems better that language evolve naturally -- as long as it remains effective as a communication medium, what is the issue?

<comment><USER8> No.

Everybody knows that languages naturally evolve on their own. The advantages of the "Académie" are:

      - it slows down the evolution allowing better choices.

      - although the language is still driven by everybody using it, it is stirred in the right direction by linguists and authors, usually making choices consistent with the rest of the languages, its history and roots.

The best example of what happens when such a mechanism isn't in place is the "biweekly" and "irregardless" mess in english!

I am really fond of the "Real Academia Española" as they go even further than their french counterpart, and regularly change the spelling of words to reflect their modern pronounciation.

<comment><USER9> > _I am really fond of the "Real Academia Española" as they go even further > than their french counterpart, and regularly change the spelling of words to > reflect their modern pronounciation._

The Académie does that too, but people are so used to having irregular or (apparently) illogical spelling that the new spellings catch on very slowly. It works though, and today you rarely see someone write "clef" instead of "clé" or "cuiller" instead of "cuillère". A few verbs got their accents changed from "é" to "è" too, following modern pronunciation. All that was in 1990.

<comment><USER10> I think it's partly because when spelling was standardized in the 17th-18th century, it was done with a "learned" view that spelling should reflect a word's origin. So you get "doigt" for finger because of the latin _digitus_ , the circumflex to denote an S that has become silent (hôpital vs. hospital), and even overcorrections (that have been recorrected since), like nénuphar -> nénufar (ph is used to denote places where there used to be a greek phi, but nénufar comes from Arabic)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Here's an interesting question: How do the French decide on gender (and hence the article to use) of imported English words (same question can be asked for many of the European languages that have grammatical gender, e.g. German)? This Guardian note provides some answers ([http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-125...](http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1251,00.html)), in French imported words are mostly masculine.

Some examples I pulled from this ([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-3917...](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-391745.html)) thread for the gender of Internet in various languages:

      * Spanish: Generally assumed to be masculine but the Real Academia Espanola page lists it as "amb", i.e. undecided gender (http://buscon.rae.es/drae/?type=3&val=internet&val_aux=&origen=REDRAE)
      * Russian: Интернет - <USER2>
      * Welsh: rhwngrwyd - feminine (but that's because "net" (rhwyd) is feminine, itself borrowed from Latin neuter rete, retis "net.")
      * Czech: masculine
      * Hebrew: masculine, although the more commonly used "net" (reshet) is feminine.

It's commonly taught that grammatical gender in languages (at least in IE languages) is semantically meaningless, i.e. they are just arbitrary classifications. this may not be totally true. If you have 10 minutes this article (PDF file: [http://lera.ucsd.edu/papers/gender.pdf](http://lera.ucsd.edu/papers/gender.pdf)) by Lera Boroditsky has an in-depth discussion on this topic.

French and German native speakers: Can you provide examples of English borrowed words that have feminine gender?

<comment><USER12> Grammatical gender in German isn't really arbitrary; it is usually determined by the word's suffix (though there are plenty of exceptions). For example, computer is grammatically male in German, like most words ending in -er.

Things can get complicated if a loanword does not have a suffix that exists in German (or is reasonably close to an existing suffix). In this case, you may get regional variations (that can be pretty random) or the grammatical gender of the German translation of the loanword may be adopted instead.

Examples of feminine loanwords: E-Mail (because the word "Post" in German is feminine), URL (because words ending in -el tend to be feminine).

<comment><USER13> > E-Mail (because the word "Post" in German is feminine)

Tell that to the Schluchtenscheißer, they insist it's neutral.

<comment><USER12> As I said, there can be regional variations, but most people classify E-Mail as feminine, not neuter [1].

[1] [http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/E_Mail](http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/E_Mail)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I will start a tumblr account dedicated to news published all arround the year that are april-fools-worthy.

<comment><USER15> [https://reddit.com/r/nottheonion](https://reddit.com/r/nottheonion) ?

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I grew up in France and my favorite (french) literature teacher (and best one, IMO) once told me that it was in the nature of languages to evolve. This was especially true with French as a result of the abondance of cultural exchanges throughout the centuries.

Over the years, French has had influences from many languages including Arabic, e.g. the word "Abricot" (the fruit) comes from that language. It also provides an indication as of where a given new word has been originated.

He also said that it is up to the people to dictate the usage of new words. Some new words have been suggested by the Académie Française to replace words that had been taken from other languages. But in the end, if people dont use that replacement, then it is the (foreign) word that will be adopted in the dictionary.

He gave the example of "shopping", a word taken from the English and widely used in France but reluctantly used in Quebec for cultural (political?) reasons.

</comment><comment><USER17> > accès sans fil à l'Internet

Replacing an English word with a phrase containing an English word.

Hard to imagine why it failed to catch on.

<comment> guard-of-terra Add to that, "wi-fi" doesn't imply "internet access".

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> C'est classe, mot-dièse

<comment><USER10> Did you hear about that new language Microsoft has come up with? They call it "do dièse" (and they have a project called "fa dièse" for some reason).

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> "access without wire" vs "wireless access"

<comment><USER20> Of course the proper translation for _" accès sans fil"_ is _" wireless access"_, but the author points out that it is translated _" literally"_, and indeed _" sans fil"_ literally means _" without wire"_.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> So...they surrendered?</comment>