I don't know - <AUTHOR> http://blog.42floors.com/i-dont-know/ <comment><USER2> I swear to god, every time I read a post by Jason, I wish he was my manager. I consider myself a highly productive person, but constantly hampered, directly and indirectly, by terrible managers. Jason always comes off as the kind of person that amplifies the abilities of his team. That is all...I'm gushing and its embarrassing.

<comment><USER3> Until office politics doesn't allow anybody to be promoted in a management position, we will suffer from incompetent managers.

Ask me how I know.

<comment><USER4> You were recently promoted?

<comment><USER3> Ah ah ah, not exactly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The problem is that the engineer's "I don't know" gets beaten out of you when you speak to users and investors. You get made to feel like an amateur for admitting uncertainty. Which is absurd in the startup world of all places. So it's one of those doublethink situations, where you need to keep your internal accounting separate from the marketing talk. And then you need to know who to tell what on top of that. And then actually deal with the actual uncertainty on top of _that_. As if startups weren't hard enough in general, we're making it even worse for ourselves.

<comment><USER6> Those are probably users and/or investors you're better off not having. Conversely, answering "we're not sure, but here are some parameters of the situation / dimensions" suggests you're at least cognizant of the area.

There's also the case of implausible ignorance: the "I don't recall" defense popular in politics and business PR-speak. This tends to _decrease_ credibility.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> In Indian culture, knowledge (viveka) is always accompanied with humility (vinaya).

Thus, counter-intuitively, saying 'I don't know' is an indicator of the speaker's knowledge, as he is aware of areas of his ignorance.

Contrast with an arrogant attitude of "I-know-everything-or-can-find-it-out" and the fuck-ups that inevitably follow.

Aside: I would really like to know what the solution to keeping the listings updated was. Or, is that a trade secret? ;)

edit: s/Aide/Aside

<comment><USER8> It's interesting that you brought that up. As a westerner, I admit I don't have a great understanding of eastern cultures outside of the few movies I've seen. One stereotype, which I'd like some real clarification on, is the Chinese or Japanese societal culture of "saving face", or honor code. Could you give some insight on that cultural facet and how it pertains to knowledge/humility? I remember after the Fukushima incident, there was some talk of the officials' honor preventing them from admitting things were as bad as they were, making the entire situation worse. Is this pervasive as I'm led to believe? Would this come up in interviews and professional careers? Does it hinder our advances in technology?

<comment><USER9> Just because someone is from India, it doesn't mean they know everything about (incredibly diverse) cultures from every other country on the same continent. It's like asking an American of the culture of Brazil.

<comment><USER10> Yes, "Hey you're from India, what's it like it Japan" is almost hilariously insensitive. (Actually just tragic).

It's along the same lines as:

[Hears X is from country Y] "Oh do you know bob?"

<comment><USER11> > _[Hears X is from country Y] "Oh do you know bob?"_

Which is an entirely reasonable question, because if X from country Y is at the same party as you, then there's a good chance he might know your friend Bob. It's a small world, they say.

<comment><USER12> With smaller countries and specific industries this gets scary close to the truth: If I ever hear about another Finn from a person here in San Francisco, my first reaction is to ask the full name in case I know them - and in surprisingly many cases I do. World is a small place when you're part of a community.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It's not just "I don't know" that is important, but also the next part of the thought: "but I can find out."

Just admitting you don't know is great, but it's not good enough. You have to also be able to take the next step _and find out_.

If I ask two people if they know how to do something, and one of them says "I don't know" and the other says "I don't know, but I can find out," then... well, I don't really need to complete that thought. You can see the difference right there.

But other than that, Jason is spot on. This is something I've been keeping an eye out for for years. When I interview people, I ask a question, and when they're clearly bullshitting me, I'll stop them and say, "It's okay if you don't know." The best candidates will often back down, like Jason did in his example, and say "Yeah, I don't really know, but I'll figure it out."

Bullshitting me with an answer isn't a red flag. It means you're at least thinking about the problem. But admitting you don't know but are willing to figure it out is a far, far superior answer. Very few real-world problems demand an answer RIGHT NOW. Most can wait until some research is done.

<comment><USER14> I happen to be in Army Officer Candidate School at the moment, and this is how the majority of the selection and training process works. A lot of pressure for people to answer things _right now_ , but most of us don't actually know the answer. Without fail, the most motivated and successful candidates are the ones who say "Sir, Officer Candidate ______, I don't know but I will have an answer to you by [hack time]."

<comment><USER15> How can one know how long it will take to get an answer? That's just a lie of bravado, a pressure-driven estimate. It's horrible in a business environment. What happens is the person will give the first answer that makes sense, which, while the answer may be correct, discourages deep analysis of the problem.

I never give estimates, to the great fury of my boss, but I told him I don't want to lie.

Lying is unethical, and accepting a lie, or not calling out a liar, is encouraging unethical behavior.

If someone tells me: "I'll have an answer, or: be done with the work, by a certain date/time, I shake my head, then reply: "Don't make promises. Just let me know when it's done."

<comment><USER16> So how do you handle any sort of software development planning? Do you just tell the client "It'll be done eventually. I'll let you know when.", or would you accept that reply from your employees?

<comment><USER15> That's why agile is used: We'll show you what we have at an agreed upon time (1 week, 2 weeks, 6 weeks, whatever) and you can say "that's fine keep going" or "hmmm, we should change direction."

<comment><USER17> But even with agile, you have to have some kind of idea how long an overall project might take, otherwise how do you even decide if a project is worth starting?

Estimating is hard, but it's an estimate. Problems usually arise when one gives an estimate of 'X days' and what the manager hears is 'It will take X days, and no longer.'

An estimate will increase in accuracy the more you know, so if you don't feel comfortable giving an estimate, ask the question: "What information do I need to know to give me comfort for an estimate of Y% accuracy" and ask more questions.

<comment><USER18> > But even with agile, you have to have some kind of idea how long an overall > project might take, otherwise how do you even decide if a project is worth > starting?

If each iteration is producing sufficient independent business value (e.g., not dependent on _subsequent_ iterations), then you don't have to estimate the size of the "overall project" to determine if it is worth starting. That's actually a key part of the risk mitigation provided by agile/lean methods.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This reminds me of what a good PHP dev told me once - he interviewed a bunch of candidates for a company before as a favor, asking a bunch of specific tough domain questions. Almost all of the candidates tried to spew a bunch of nonsense & wiggle their way through them, but only one candidate had the confidence to tell him each time that "I don't know, I would google it". That was the candidate that got hired, and when that person asked down the line why he was picked, the person who interviewed him told him that he was the only candidate to not bullshit him and tell him the answer that reflected how software engineers think.

There is value in people who can tell upfront what their thoughts are, since they are identifying where there are potential problems.

<comment><USER20> Herein lies the problem with DDG - it probably wouldn't sound as good to say "I don't know the answer to that question; I would Duck it."

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> "While there are lots of tactics, there is no one true silver bullet. "

I'm old enough to have worked with Coldwell Banker when they rolled out their commercial real estate operations on the East Coast (they had been only a west coast company at first).

What they did was assign a college student (typically on summer break or part time) to go out to each area and literally catalog all the commercial office space for part of the time and then the rest they would spend in the office calling up the building owner (or manager) and verifying the data collected.

This was many years ago but it worked quite well. A database was compiled and updated.

Bottom line is no matter how you cut this is a manual process.

You know why the yellow pages was such a success? Relevant data that while it came out 1 time per year typically was highly accurate for that year.

They made enough money (by selling advertising to a captive audience) that they were able to employ an entire quality checking and sales organization to verify and collect the data which ended up in a product that was widely used up until the internet came along. But once again they had the profit margin and captive audience to make the whole process work and that was a key part of that success.

</comment><comment><USER22> I really like this idea and try to apply it as much as possible. In my experience, for any kind of teamwork, the faster we get to the "I don't knows", the faster we solve problems, while stating half-truths/guesses-as- facts spreads confusion and kills productivity. I've also noticed that the type of person who is afraid to admit knowledge gaps is usually also the one who looks at me funny or expresses disapproval whenever I use the phrase. It's as if they are confused as to why I would ever admit such weakness.

<comment><USER23> As one of those people who rarely says "I don't know", let me offer a different view: saying "I don't know" is negative and gets you nowhere. Instead of saying "I don't know", say what you do know. Then you're a step closer to understanding than anyone who said "I don't know"; and you're likely to be several steps ahead by the time they get over that hesitation.

Now, guesses should never be presented as absolute facts, but having a guess puts you much closer to the truth than having nothing. If you really, truly have nothing, no relevant knowledge---which should rarely happen if you're well-educated and/or experienced, in which case you're a novice to the subject, where somewhat different rules apply---then say so; otherwise, go with what you know and learn the rest on the way. Will mistakes sometimes happen? Will you sometimes head down dead-ends? Absolutely, but that's part of the learning process and we shouldn't be afraid of mistakes, as long as we're in a process which is tolerant of them. (If you're pushing code to production, for example, then that's a time either to know or not to know, not to guess. But that's the end of the process, not when you're asking questions.)

So if you said to me, "I don't know", I might look at you funny because it's probably not true: you probably do know, at least partially; it just seems like you're not willing to acknowledge that.

<comment><USER24> I hate that. And after I worked as analyst, I started to hate that even more.

Just say "I do not know" and do not waste your and my time with monologues full of guesses and sort-of-related-but-not-relevant info. It does not help. It just wastes time.

If you say, "I do not know" we can work on it. We can file it as an open question until you know. We can ask somebody else or search for information.

And btw, the answer to "Will mistakes sometimes happen" question is: guesses cause them very often and they slow analysis a lot. You just do not see it, because I can not go to you and show you all your wrong guess mistakes. I have to smile and pretend that I trust you while triple checking everything you say which again, slow down analysis.

Working with people able to say "I do not know" is way easier and faster.

<comment><USER23> You're treating knowledge as a binary, which it isn't. My way deals more gracefully with thinking you know and being wrong: since you always say what you know, but allow that it may be just a guess, you're always prepared to back off and rethink it. But if you treat knowledge as yes/no, then when you think you know and you say that "yes", you're ready to go full-steam ahead and you're less likely to turn back, since you already "decided" that "I don't know" wasn't the answer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I wish politicians would have this attitude instead of avoiding the questions and coming out with meaningless statements.

<comment> at-fates-hands I hate to point this out, but when he was running for Governor, Jesse Ventura used to say it all the time. I remember in several of the debates when asked tough economic questions.

"I don't have the answer to your question, but I know if I'm elected, I'll appoint the brightest economic people I can find to solve the problem."

As opposed to other candidates who either talked along party lines and said they would tax the rich or give tax breaks to businesses and rich people.

I still feel like it was one of the most important things he said that got him elected. He never acted like he had all the answers.

<comment><USER26> If he got elected and that worked for him, then awesome, but I could understand why many people would take issue with that way of answering questions.

When it comes to politics, a lot of people aren't looking to elect someone for their decision-making ability. They're looking to elect someone who is making the same decisions that they've made. For instance, people don't want a candidate who will "investigate whether universal healthcare is a good idea". The people have already decided whether or not it is, and they want someone who will agree with them.

In addition, not having a hardened position on something _could_ mean that you intend to compromise with the opposition on that issue in order to appeal to more voters.

<comment><USER27> This. Or at least someone who appears to share the same values and decision- making criteria.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> > Kiran explained that he likes it when people say I don't know because it > lends credibility to everything else that they've said.

I'd take that a step further, and say that people who assign proper levels of certainty to their beliefs tend to be credible. Most people seem to only be able to think in absolutes.

<comment><USER29> Hey! I do this! It tends to drive people insane!

<comment><USER28> Well you did a good job by saying "tends to" :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> If you found the post interesting, you may also like reading how Kiran seems to have attacked the question he posed to Jason: [http://divvela.com/post/77189320557/an-army-to-help- you](http://divvela.com/post/77189320557/an-army-to-help-you)

</comment><comment><USER31> Good point, and I agree, I also enjoy working with people who can admit when they just don't know something. It shouldn't be so hard to do, there is a nearly infinite amount of stuff each of us doesn't know -- especially when it comes to forward looking challenges we just haven't started thinking concretely about yet. My favorite response when asked about such things is "I'm not sure; we'll burn that bridge when we get to it".

This topic is even more relevant for software over other types of knowledge, IMO, keeping in mind the Knuth quote "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it".

Even when I'm pretty sure that task XYZ can be completed relatively easily using language A, framework B and API C, I still won't answer in complete absolutes unless I've worked on the compiler for A, written a fair amount of B, and previously exhausted all the functionality of C.

</comment><comment><USER32> Someone who has all the answers, probably has an important answer wrong.

Also, don't look at people's plans, look at their criteria.

</comment><comment><USER33> Some people like to hear "I don't know".

Lots of people do not like to hear "I don't know".

<comment><USER34> Looks like a great way for filtering the ones you want to work with.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> While the point of the article isn't the domain problem, I'll add that the hardest management job I've had was trying to retroactively fix a data aggregation process that had been built manually over many years.

The work was extraordinarily tedious, error prone, yet business critical. We had to keep shimming in new parts of the system, while keeping the old system afloat. While the system was always on the verge of imploding, from the outside, it basically appeared to work, which kept the project chronically understaffed.

I have a lot respect for anyone who aggregates time critical production data from different sources. The nature of the work makes it extremely stressful, yet surprisingly easy for outsiders to underestimate.

</comment><comment><USER36> I like to think of this as being "confident in your ignorance." Whether you're a manager or early in your career, the way in which you admit what you don't know and ask clarifying questions can have a profound impact.

</comment><comment><USER37> If I don't know something I've made it a point to tell them that.

Generally, I follow it up by letting whomever know that I can attempt to discover an answer to the question.

If the question is about how something works, I'll occasionally explain how I think it might work based on how I'd implement it, but again advise that it's just a guess and I really do not know.

</comment><comment><USER38> Its amazing how small people are that they aren't able to admit they don't know something. Its quite common though.

</comment><comment><USER39> I'm slightly exasperated with this mythical cultural fit being used as the end all quality you seek in your potential employee. If someone can please spare some time to write a no-nonsense definition so that even an alien could understand I'll be grateful. All I ever get are hand-wavy explanations.

<comment><USER40> It's an easy way to get sued for discrimination.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> My attitude is that preemptive honesty establishes credibility. Even more when it is backed up by everything else you do.

By contrast up front evidence of defensive behavior is a red flag for me in all sorts of situations.

</comment><comment><USER42> "I don't know" is very good; "I'll find out" is usually better. So I was taught as a plebe at the Naval Academy...

</comment><comment><USER43> [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b708iZ5A_I](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b708iZ5A_I)

</comment><comment><USER44> <title>the_title();</title>

<comment><USER45> fixed.

<comment><USER44> :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I don't know what I think about this.

</comment><comment><USER47> When I read blogs like this I think "Dear Penthouse..." The original humble- brag medium.</comment>


Crying - <AUTHOR> http://www.robinwe.is/explorations/cry.html <comment><USER2> I am a big burly guy with a beard - and I get overwhelmed and cry regularly. Not even from sadness, just from general emotion.

For example last night I watched the trailer for Overwatch[1] and got so excited I started tearing up. I don't know why, anything that triggers ANY sort of strong emotion in me brings it on. Always has.

My wife makes fun of me for it. I don't see anything wrong with it.

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqnKB22pOC0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqnKB22pOC0)

<comment><USER3> Since we all seem to be in a _sharing_ mood...

Also a guy -- no beard -- but (and I'm not joking here)... I watched that exact trailer just now and teared up a little.

As for movies, I have two examples: Up (pure emotion) and The Fountain -- the scene towards the end where he talks to the high priest and Clint Mansell's music takes over.

For me, I think it's generally sort of really _EPIC_ things that do it. Really huge _scales_ also tend to do it, for example some of the star size comparisons, or David Deutsch's talk about relativistic jets[1], or just contemplating the fact that some black holes swallow a solar mass _per day_.

Sometimes it's just "beauty", e.g. I couldn't help tearing up when Carolyn Porco showed the "Saturn Eclipse"[2] picture in her Ted Talk[3]. Some of that, I think, was because of the realization that _we humans_ had actually sent a thing out there to take that picture.

(Btw, I think I'm generally considered a bit of a cold fish among my friends/acquaintances, FWIW. Humans are weird.)

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQliI_WGaGk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQliI_WGaGk)

[2] [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Saturn_e...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Saturn_eclipse.jpg) (WARNING: Image is HUGE!)

[3] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5usqdjsr6Vw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5usqdjsr6Vw) (I won't link you to the exact time because the video deserves to be seen its entirety. If you _really_ want to skip, skip to 15m15s.)

<comment><USER4> Another guy here.

I've found that as I age, I've become more emotional (and simultaneously better at dealing with it). I never cried in movies as a child/teenager, but nowadays I find myself choking up during particularly emotional moments in movies, shows, and life. Sometimes I just look at my son for a minute and the same thing happens. I try not to cry around people, even my family, but more because I'm conscious of the effect it has on them (upsetting or, in the case of other people, just awkward).

My theory is that, as I've developed a stronger sense of empathy and experienced more things in my life, I have a more direct emotional connection to events I witness. From what I've read based, this seems to be fairly common.

<comment><USER5> That's a nice theory, but it seems to be common to get emotional with age - senile lability if you want to google it.

My first introduction to the term as a teenager was in Earthly Powers[1]. Didn't get it then, but as I get older (and like you after kids), I find I tear up at stories of sacrifice and generosity.

[1] [https://books.google.com/books?id=PsJyuYIL- _MC&pg=PT6&lpg=PT...](https://books.google.com/books?id=PsJyuYIL- _MC&pg=PT6&lpg=PT6&dq=senile+lability+anthony+burgess&source=bl&ots=kDDxb7XuFw&sig=HLU1AZ7jdGct0OAC4rtDtk9jNRk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigpLaCj_vMAhVS2mMKHfZMDUIQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=senile%20lability%20anthony%20burgess&f=false)

[2] [https://books.google.com/books?id=RRV0DbfOsqUC&pg=PA207&lpg=...](https://books.google.com/books?id=RRV0DbfOsqUC&pg=PA207&lpg=PA207&dq=senile+lability&source=bl&ots=fA9OUjCSZk&sig=WTVmJqiRA2lzjiRWYuMJqIpCNv0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwib_IbJjvvMAhWFLmMKHS0QB9IQ6AEINDAE#v=onepage&q=senile%20lability&f=false)

<comment><USER6> I think there is a difference between senile decay, and the fact that when you are getting older, you have witnessed the fragility of life in ways that most teenagers luckily have not.

I think my empathy is growing as I'm getting older.

I am aware that some people just hardens up or getting more or less traumatized if they experience really traumatic events or periods and I don't think it is that useful to look at war-like events as it kind of go outside a useful scale, but in personal tragedies a lot of people people seems to go softer.

Maybe you have to learn empathy. There are many signs that says it's at least partially so.

<comment><USER4> Empathy definitely has to be exercised and trained regularly to work well. As I understand it (not an expert but I've read up on it on the Internet), children are pretty much incapable of it until ~4 as there's some mental development necessary. If you spend lots of time in an environment where you're not conscious of building your empathy and remembering to use it, your ability and tendency to do so will wither.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> For anyone else who was surprised, like me, that there was so much crying recorded in this article, you might find [a certain Reddit thread][1] interesting. I had been under the impression that basically no-one cried ever, but it turns out that some hormones just seem to make it happen.

[1]: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/4g1pgu/serious_t...](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/4g1pgu/serious_trans_people_of_reddit_what_was_something/)

<comment><USER8> So the author of the article is a male -> female transsexual undergoing hormone treatment?

<comment><USER7> I don't know, but prior probabilities suggest not. Notice, however, that it is not just M2F transsexuals who have "female" hormones in their bodies. Almost everyone has them, and some people (such as females) tend to have more of them than others.

<comment><USER9> I'm intrigued by the "almost". Are there people with 0% female (or male) hormones?

<comment><USER10> There are at least people with hormone insensitivity. An example is a phenotypically female Olympic athlete with AIS[1] (had female sex organs) who was chromosomally male (XY). It caused a bit of a controversy at the time.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrom...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm really glad someone had the courage to share this data.. Growing up I was always under the impression that it was wrong to cry, and it probably exasperated some of my depressive episodes.

Strangely, after becoming a father, I feel like I'm even more sensitive and can cry at the drop of a seemingly innocent comment. I bet I cry almost daily.. But after it occurs, it's refreshing. I feel stronger.

<comment><USER12> My family made me feel like crying was a bad thing, that it was weak to cry and that there is something wrong with you. Never feel this way, anyone who says or thinks this is really wrong, emotions are what make us human and we should be glad to feel things!

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is awesome. I think so much study goes into anger management and trying to understand why we get angry, but it seems that other emotional outburts are often shunned in discussion.

As someone who comes from a family of people (read: Chinese and Southern) who house an intense stigma around crying, it's been a struggle for me to better empathize and understand crying for other people.

I think the author nailed the use of personal logging here - it's not about extrapolating onto others, it's just another form of self-reflection.

</comment><comment><USER14> I had _no_ idea that people cry this much. It's like pulling back a curtain.

<comment><USER15> Kind of the same for me. More baffling for me, however, is the range of discrete emotions she was able to categorize. If I tried, I would probably end up with buckets "upbeat", "fine", and "down".

I found this article very fascinating.

<comment><USER16> If we go by the name (Robin), it's a he. :)

<comment><USER17> Robin is a name used by both sexes, e.g. Robin Wright and Robin Williams. Additionally, the author's website indicates they belonged to an organization for women.

<comment><USER16> Yeah, I just confirmed and came back here to write it. It's She. At the risk of sounding sexist, that relieves me a bit :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Incredibly interesting, and waaaay more data than I expected. The fancy d3 weighted tree/forking chart was fascinating.

> I tried to categorize cries as they were happening (because I wanted to > create a real-time crying dashboard)

Sure, who hasn't wanted to create a real-time crying dashboard?

<comment><USER19> It's called a sankey diagram if that helps. And, yes, they are the coolest.

<comment><USER18> That helps a lot, thanks! I've mostly used Highcharts but now am going to have to dive into d3 to play around with some of this...

<comment><USER20> It seems this was made with Google Charts.

[https://developers.google.com/chart/interactive/docs/gallery...](https://developers.google.com/chart/interactive/docs/gallery/sankey)

<comment><USER18> Hmm, I checked the source when originally reading it and thought I saw a d3 link but you are correct. Thanks for clarifying.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I love this thread. I've been a long time HN lurker, but only fairly recently did I create an account and start contributing.

See the honesty and emotion on these comments really makes me feel I'm hanging out with a good bunch of people. It's so refreshing compared to the toxic communities of the other large social sites.

I'm a cryer. I cry a lot, I'm also clinically depressed with social anxiety, which makes social interaction difficult, so my emotional are mostly on the surface anyway. Crying for me is the best form of emotional release. I cry at the big ending in films, I cry at the end of amazing books (The Green Mile totally destroyed me, I was in business class on a plane at the time, blubbering my eyes out...).

On balance though, I also get very angry often. I guess you can't have one without the other...

</comment><comment><USER22> I almost never cry. Some of my friends joke that I cry once a decade, but honestly that is pretty close to the truth. I'm not ashamed to cry, and I don't try to not cry, or anything like that, I just almost never want to cry...

<comment><USER23> Same. I get called heartless for it sometimes. But I think I'm emotionally stunted overall anyway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Long distance relationship, infidelity breakup, family illness, and bedbugs all in a year? Yikes, glad they already had a therapist to speak with.

<comment><USER15> I don't think the article mentioned bed bugs.

<comment><USER25> It's in the sankey diagram.

<comment><USER15> You're right of course, that whole image failed to load for me on the first visit. That's a beautiful visualization.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Everyone is an emotional being; whether they show it to the world regularly or not. I'm normally a very stoic, "serious", sometimes up-tight and irritable person. I know I've turned off many people from the way I interact. But get me in-front of someone I can truly connect with, and I'm a whole different soul - I laugh, smile, my heart flutters, I'll cuddle up to a partner, the works. It all depends how comfortable the other person makes me feel.

I'm very into personality typing and identify as INTJ for Myers Brigg (Which is the smallest subset at ~1-2% of the population). I met a girl the other week that I found out was INTJ as well and we connected instantly on a whole new level - still blows my mind when I talk to her; and we were both able to share that very quickly. But we're both very stoic and have our guards up in public until we click well with someone and can relax.

</comment><comment><USER27> Fascinating dataset. I think ending a long term, long distance relationship (and then finding out he was married all along), probabaly skewed this dataset upwards.

Last time I cried was watching the most recent episode of Game of Thrones. And then watching YouTube reaction videos of that episode, a little less crying with each video. Hodor...

<comment><USER28> I cried at the end of that episode because I hate puns

<comment><USER29> At risk of spoilers, I don't think that's a pun. It's just an abbreviation.

<comment><USER28> It's a pun played in meta-reverse and it sucked

<comment><USER30> No, there's no word play involved. There's no joke in their either. It's just a misheard word.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> The data collection, analysis, and emotional honesty of this post are extremely impressive.

</comment><comment><USER32> Disney movies.

Literally every single Disney movie gets me to cry. Usually towards the end, around the climax when the soundtrack let the harps and violins kick in.

Not sure if it's me or Disney has some special Crying Department which meticulously orchestrates a crying storyboard.

<comment><USER33> > Not sure if it's me or Disney has some special Crying Department which > meticulously orchestrates a crying storyboard.

My money is on a Crying Department. The entire business of Disney is in creating and exploiting emotions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> It's amazing how much variability there is in how much people cry. Also, the intensity obviously varies a lot: I've never cried for longer than maybe 5 minutes.

Personally, I'm tempted to start a similar log but for the exact opposite reason: I cry so little that I don't remember the last time I did, and I would like to.

</comment><comment><USER34> Since everyone is talking about their crying habits - I have this very annoying tendency to get teary eyed/cry when having intense discussions with some people. Especially if there's any hint of negativity in it. Awkward for obvoius reasons. So I just tend to avoid these.

</comment><comment><USER35> The crying post is good, but also the rest of the website. Amazing amount of data.

</comment><comment><USER36> I dunno... I find the notion of crying as a reaction to fictional (or even non-fictional) media... foreign. I find this notion foreign. (Man, just a goatee, almost 33). I do consume fiction, but I just don't 'suspend disbelief', as it is called. Call me a fiction grinch, but it's just the way my brain works.

I recently changed jobs and moved to a new city. When, after a long hiring process I was given the job, I cried a little (like 10 seconds), out of joy. Then, once I arrived in the city, it was hard to find a new home but I faced it without victimism: _I_ decided to move, so I had the obligation to face whatever hardships would emerge along the way. But the day I finally found a home and everything started to settle, when I finally had the keys, I sat down on one of the rooms and, beer in hand, cried, but out of relief and joy also.

When I was younger I used to cry easily, but as I'm getting older I just don't cry often anymore. Somewhat it has become a reaction reserved for existential highlights, so to speak.

<comment><USER37> This is fascinating to me. Do you consume fiction purely for analyses of the writing/acting? Of course, either of those things done poorly can quickly make one focus on the fabricated nature of it, but to not have any real capacity to entertain fantasy as reality when there are no obvious negatives or doubts to point out seems to be a rare thing.

If you're unable to "suspend disbelief", what is the actual gain from that experience if no engaged entertainment value is received? Does it only come from being a so-called "grinch"?

<comment><USER36> I definitely prefer non-fiction. I do make an effort to connect with people about current series/movies. But it is an _effort_ , not something spontaneous. I feel bad sometimes that I can come across as too analytical. I'm not! I feel awe and deep emotion looking at documentaries, for example, or at the space station footage of the Earth. That is mind-blowing and very moving.

I noticed this the other day talking to my brother. He was excited about a new episode of House of Cards? I think. I watched it, it was cool. The representation of all the forces and intrigues inside American politics. Interesting! But then I tried to small talk, and said regarding the current election (and I am not American, btw): 'You know, I think Hillary is as corrupt as Sanders and Trump!'. He said with a blank face 'Oh sorry, I don't really know about that'. I immediately felt the disconnect between us.

I follow American politics mainly through Stephen Colbert and other comedians; I'm not _too_ analytical and dry as to just read serious journals or political books: I like entertainment, but entertainment that _contains_ at least a little bit of information about reality. I just can't spend a weekend watching a fictional series when I could be learning something about the real state of affairs, even superficially.

And I just don't want to judge people that like to do that, I even consider it as the normal, balanced thing to do. But I do feel how other people judge me for my preferences of entertainment, but I just can't help it.

<comment><USER38> Fiction can help you learn meta stuff.

<comment><USER36> No doubt about it. My background is in the humanities! I started out working for a literature magazine and going to college to study philosophy. Then my brain wandered and decided that it wanted to learn about programming, machine translation and related stuff. I _do_ like and value fiction, and you're right: fiction can give you 'big picture' ideas, metaphors and can shape the meaning of our whole experience.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is super interesting, I've found that as I've aged I cry a lot less than when I was younger. If gender makes any difference, I'm a woman. I found that when I was younger I cried a lot, at all sort of things. Now I find it difficult to cry, and I kind of miss that emotion, because I think it's an important part of what makes us human :(

</comment><comment><USER39> Can anyone explain how the visualization with the header '? -> ?? -> ???' (a little past the middle on the right hand side) was generated?

I'd really like to know how spreadsheet data gets turned into that awesome D3 diagram!

<comment><USER40> [https://developers.google.com/chart/interactive/docs/gallery...](https://developers.google.com/chart/interactive/docs/gallery/sankey#overview)

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> This is _so_ well done!

Could you talk about how you kept track of this when you were away from your computer? Any app etc? did you make a record right then? or just a mental note and then trancribed later?

I apologize for focusing on the logistics part of it :-)

</comment><comment><USER42> My crying is triggered by positive stories. Most of the times, specifically by solidarity demonstrations.

Sports, natural disasters, simple day-to-day actions. Whenever i feel there is real and genuine altruism.

I rarely cry by sad or melancholy reasons.

</comment><comment><USER43> I read somewhere the author of Starship Troopers, Robert Heinlein, wrote that when he realized he couldn't cry he took steps to learn to do so. I am a man still learning.

In my self help group for recovery from abuse even some of the women could not cry. We thought this was from bigger people saying, "If you don't stop crying I'll give you something to cry about" and also we thought they were bloody liars, unable to admit to us that our crying upset them and they didn't want to feel (just as they took substances to avoid feeling)

</comment><comment><USER44> So many people here admitting they cry with an undertone that they feel various levels of bad for doing it. @donatj even said his wife makes fun of him when he cries.

We have got to make this a non-issue. Its so insane to me that in Western culture someone isn't allowed to express a perfectly normal aspect of their physiology. Its like shaming someone for puking. It may not be pleasant but not doing it is way worse.

I sincerely believe we should be pushing back and HARD when we're shamed for crying. "We" being anyone because, lets face it, women are shamed for it too.

<comment><USER45> Maybe crying is seen as an intense emotion for rare occasions so when someone seems to be crying every weekday or over trivial things it demeans the powerfulness and impact of crying.

Also because of it's reservation for truly impactful events random crying can seem fake or artificial. 'Attention whoring' as the kids like to call it.

You cry at a funeral, you cry at getting a parking ticket. If you cry at both you're kinda putting them on the same level eh?

<comment><USER44> Sure, there are attention whores but the existence of an outlier of people doesn't seem to me to be a very good reason to shame most people for something that our bodies are designed to do.

The parking ticket thing reminds me of a teenager I worked with once who got a speeding ticket. He started getting really choked up about it. To your point, was it really a big deal? So he got a speeding ticket. He should put his big- boy pants on, pay it and move on, right? Except, what we found out later was that he was crying because he knew what his abusive father was going to do when he got home.

So yeah, sometimes they are on the same level. Context matters.

<comment><USER46> This. I'm a grown-ass adult and cried when my father left after visiting. Was it because I was too much of a wimp to be alone and needed my parents? No. It was the shock of having seen someone I'd known my whole life age noticeably, a feeling of simultaneous concern and powerlessness over an array of health concerns, and anticipatory grief centered around the certainty that he will one day die and we both will experience incredible pain as a result.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> If this began happening to me I would consider it a serious medical issue. Crying on a daily basis? That seems debilitating.

</comment><comment><USER48> Looking at the "heat map", it looks like the OP needs to start going to bed on time, like 10pm, on a regular basis. It seems she is staying up late and crying a lot during that time, perhaps because emotional things and overwork are getting her at that time. Put the phone on Do Not Disturb and check out at 10pm.

<comment><USER49> Or the opposite: She was already feeling those things and could not go to sleep because of them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> What a great study! We engineers and rational-thinking oriented people tend to disregard how our emotions affect us on a daily basis.

Makes me wonder... Would I want a emotion tracker (app or hardware) which lets me study ME? Yes

Do I want it in the cloud or to be made money from? Not at all. An opening up of emotions opens me up to a lot of abuse.

</comment><comment><USER51> During allergy season my eyes are always on the verge of tearing up. Then even mildly enthusiastic conversations will cause my eyes to fully tear and that makes me feel emotional. It is embarrassing and often leads me to abruptly end conversations.

There have been numerous studies where facial expressions can affect emotion. It is a positive feedback loop [1]. The situation I described above isn't a facial expression per se, but does anyone else feels like eye strain or irritants (soldering?), makes them more emotional.

[1] [http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2010/04/16/botox- may...](http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2010/04/16/botox-may-diminish- the-experience-of-emotions/)

</comment><comment><USER52> i read this and sent my wife a link. she wanted to know why i was analyzing her crying. i told her i just wanted to run a neuralnet on her crying data.....

[http://i.imgur.com/NE380tW.png](http://i.imgur.com/NE380tW.png)

<comment><USER44> Weirdest save I've ever seen dude. Kudos. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> This is such a wonderful blending of genres. We techies often can seem (or be?) detached from emotion. The rigor with which analytics were applied here ("real-time crying dashboard"!) is genius. So funny and so true.

</comment><comment><USER54> I don't cry often. But a common types of cry I have is in narratives when someone achieves something.

For example, I cried reading The Devil in the White City when the Ferris wheel started moving for the first time.

</comment><comment><USER55> Weird anecdote. Grief can lead to health damaging anger, when sometimes you need to cry. Pardon the metaphor but it really feels like leaking the pain out instead of keeping it rotting inside your head.

</comment><comment><USER56> I haven't cried for years, and I don't wear that as a badge of honour either, it's just never been a thing for me.

I've had the 'lump in the throat' moments, sure, but not breached the wall to have the dam burst in quite some time. In fact I think the last time I properly cried was when my dog was euthanised and that was 12 or so years ago. That was the first time I'd seen my Dad completely broken too.

</comment><comment><USER57> Is anywhere near this amount of crying normal? I have never tracked but I would suspect it would be more like 1x every year or two if we remove allergies.

<comment><USER58> It really depends on the person, the culture and family they grew up in, their physiology, etc. For me, one of my primary reactions to anxiety and stress (or especially the feeling of release once a stressor event is over) is crying, so that's at least a couple of times a month. Some people just get overwhelmed with emotion (not necessarily sadness, any type will do) or have found crying to be a useful physical reaction because of the hormones that get released and the often cathartic feeling of being able to express your emotional state, even in private to yourself.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> Hey, girls cry more (typically) than guys.

As noted in the article, different people have different sensitivity levels that their emotions must meet before the waterworks start. Just because you cry less than the author does not mean that her amount of crying is abnormal.

Personally, I cry just as much as her if not more.

</comment><comment> Jean-Philipe For me, crying was mostly related to lack of eating and working out, lack of sleep or from too much work. The triggers were real, relationship problems, work related issues, you name it. But as long as I eat well and work out, I can take on a lot of personal problems without crying.

</comment><comment><USER60> Holy wow, I am genuinely surprised. I would never have imagined that it's possible for grown-up people to cry more than one or two times per year, let alone cry enough times to gather stats about it!

</comment><comment><USER61> I cry, maybe 3 times a year, and tear up maybe 10 times a year. Last year was really rough, so it was a bit more, but I have no idea how someone could cry -that- much and still have a livable life.

</comment><comment><USER62> Well executed analysis. It takes real commitment to follow through and track these results, then actually do something with the data. Better than a lot of TEDx talks I've seen lately.

</comment><comment><USER63> I've had a lot of 3's and 4's, and a couple of 5's in the past year. It's been rough. :(

</comment><comment><USER64> After staying up for 3 days straight coding with caffeine, I had a cry spell. It was like a religious experience.

</comment><comment><USER65> I think I have cried twice in ten years. I don't cry if possible, and certainly not in public.

</comment><comment><USER66> Go Cats

</comment><comment><USER67> Edit: I have retracted this post; it came across in a way that I did not intend it to. Thank you to those of you who explained the response I received.

<comment><USER67> Why the downvotes? Did you all read the entirety of my post? As someone who almost never receives downvotes on HN, this is frustrating. Please provide constructive criticism rather than leaving me in the dark.

<comment><USER68> Because people who try to diagnose other people with disorders out of the DSM over the Internet after a brief interaction with their life are generally considered to be in a state of arrogance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> > _I 've always considered myself to be a bit of a crybaby_

No, that's some ridiculous amount of crying. I wonder if it's severe depression or Pseudobulbar affect or some hormonal disorder.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudobulbar_affect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudobulbar_affect)

<comment><USER28> The crying is associated with relatable emotions. The fact that crying is so routine for them is probably a little neurotic (in a clinical sense, not in a pejorative sense). The person is probably a good candidate for some Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) or Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT). That can be useful to challenge some of the narratives that we tell ourselves and others when we think of things that make us sad.

For example, we might think of a breakup and say to ourselves, "I put two years into this relationship and now I've been dumped. Everyone is going to know that Sarah doesn't want to be with me anymore. What's worse is I wasted all this time only to breakup and be further behind in my relationship goals. I miss Sarah. This is awful." Those types of thoughts are natural and can certainly make you cry

CBT or REBT teaches you to challenge those assumptions. "This is not awful. This is merely inconvenient. I'd rather be sleeping next to Sarah tonight, but I was single for eight months before I met her and I can certainly sleep alone (even though I'd rather not). I wish Sarah still wanted to spend time with me, but I can't change the fact that she does not. We got along pretty well for much of the time and everyone knows that. People breakup all the time and my friends will understand that we gave it a good try. I would like to meet someone soon so that I am not alone, but I've learned that I can be reasonably happy alone for long periods of time"

<comment><USER70> She's already in therapy, which accounts for a lot of the crying. And I think finding out your partner is married to someone else would cause a lot of crying in anyone who's otherwise emotionally healthy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> Notice how many cries are due to relationship-based issues.

You are putting yourself at serious emotional risk if you allow your happiness to be driven by another person, regardless of who it is.

IMHO, your emotional success should be based upon things you can control, and if it's not, then you need to make more rapid decisions as to who or what is allowed to take part in your life.

<comment><USER72> So your recipe for, "emotional success" is to not be affected by other people?

Got it.

<comment><USER73> Is it really wrong though? Making your emotional state dependent on others is a terrible thing to do to yourself, because people can be fickle and change. Emotional independence is tremendously helpful for emotional well-being.

<comment><USER74> "To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket - safe, dark, motionless, airless – it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least to the risk of tragedy, is damnation. The only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is Hell."

\- C.S. Lewis, _The Four Loves_

Yeah, you can get hurt. For sure, be wise about who you become emotionally dependent on. But not having your emotions entangled with another's is to miss one of the great joys of being alive.

<comment><USER75> I've experienced that "great joy" too many times. For some people, the harm is a lot more than the good... you get used to the good quickly, but it takes a lot more time to get used to the harm.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Single Dad Building Sequel To "Jetpack" Video Game He Built As A Teenager - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/03/single-dad-building-sequel-to-jetpack-video-game-he-built-as-a-teenager/

<comment><USER2> I am personally glad that techcrunch chose to highlight the fact that Adam is a single dad. Often in our industry we glorify and highlight the college lifestyle of a bro-grammer. It is refreshing to read the experiences of a developer that has a life outside the domain of software development, and discusses their attempt to be creative, perform, and possibly innovate. This I think is a healthier approach for a population that will ultimately age, marry, and possibly have children. A population that, as they age, will ultimately struggle to further realize a desire to stay creative, productive, and relative in youth centric world without forgoing a healthy family life- balance.

<comment><USER3> And here I was, thinking, why bring up the "single dad" thing. Oh! Must be to make the guy seem more in need of funding - if we donate to his kickstarter project, we'll be helping not just him but his child(ren?). I don't like it.

<comment><USER4> Yeah. I am very wary of anything on Kickstarter, there's nothing to stop them from simply walking with the money or producing a crap game in a day. I prefer to donate my money to reputable charities.

<comment><USER4> I find it legitimately interesting that I am getting downvotes for disagreeing with the illusion of a perfect world where everyone is honest.

<comment><USER5> If I were to venture a guess, it's got more to do with the presentation of those ideas, rather than their substance.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I spent untold hours with the original game.

I don't want to be a downer but I have a hunch that a sequel this late after the original is only going to appeal to nostalgic gamers who played it. From what I saw in the video it doesn't look like Jetpack 2 is going to offer anything new other than new graphics and 2D physics. The original was a great game for its time but it's pretty dated by today's standards.

What I want to know is how these new features will update the game and provide an innovative new experience. I played the original but playing it again with new graphics and gimmicks isn't going to excite me. If the video demonstrated some new puzzle mechanics enabled by physics or new challenging enemies or twists on the game play mechanics I think I would have a far better opinion.

Instead I feel like it's just going to be a clone of the original with a couple bells and whistles. That would've been great if this were 1996.

<comment><USER7> While I agree with your take on what the game will be, I'm firmly in the "yes that's exactly what I want" camp. Update it a little, give me new levels, and for God's sake don't ruin it like they did Bomberman.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The original is freeware and runs nicely in dosbox (warning, it is rather fun). I'm backing this just as a thank you for making the original free.

</comment><comment><USER9> I've been waiting for this since 1996! After ten years without any sequel I asked Adam in an email if I could make a free tribute sequel since it had appeared to become abandonware and got this reply:

"Hi, We are planning to make it but haven't had an opportunity to start it. Maybe in a couple years.."

A few years later it seemed really puzzling, and frankly I thought he was in denial that the sequel would ever be made. So excited to see this finally come to fruition!

</comment><comment><USER10> See <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4197570>

</comment><comment><USER11> He should make a $10K donation level to let the donor submit someone else's likeness as the nemesis.

</comment><comment><USER12> The other Jetpac was updated by Rare a few years ago. (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetpac_Refuelled>)

</comment><comment><USER13> I was disappointed to find out this was the 1993 MSDOS game Jetpack (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetpack_(video_game)>), not the 1983 Jetpac from Ultimate Play The Game (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetpac>). Probably reveals something about my age...

<comment><USER14> You might be pleased to know that game has been remade on Xbox Live Arcaade already, and is great fun! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetpac_Refuelled>

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I remember this game! I made countless levels messing around in the editor, it was really the most intuitive level editor I've ever used.

<comment><USER16> Another (even older) game with a dirt simple level editor. Repton for the BBC.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNRlnNIOXwk> (turn volume down , the music will make your ears hurt)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I loved this game! Does anyone else remember the "Jetpack 2 in 2000" message when you closed the game?

</comment><comment><USER18> I'd also love to play a sequel to God of Thunder. I spent so much time playing that one.

</comment><comment><USER19> Jetpack is my favourite childhood computer game. This is awesome.

</comment><comment><USER20> How is "single dad" relevant? Genuinely curious.

<comment><USER21> I read it as mostly being a very short, somewhat poignant, way of saying that life has taken him pretty far from being a sixteen year old kid writing games, but that putting out this game will help him reclaim something that he feels he's lost or is at least at risk of losing.

And that is something that at least some people will feel a connection with, maybe especially people who would care about "Jetpack" in the first place. The kind of people who were once carefree 16 year old video game players, who are probably the kind of people who he expects to be attracted to his Kickstarter campaign.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> As a single dad myself, I'm rooting for the guy. This is a great opportunity and I'm glad Techcrunch is picking up on the story. Hopefully this happens for him.</comment>