Kim Dotcom permitted to livestream his appeal against extradition on Youtube - <AUTHOR> http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/312095/dotcom-given-go-ahead-to-livestream-appeal <comment><USER2> "Kim Dotcom's extradition appeal will be livestreamed, however all footage must be removed from the internet after the hearing ends."

The judge obviously doesn't know how the Internet works, but I applaud his efforts.

<comment><USER3> Just hit the delete button from youtube, and it's gone. What are you talking about.

<comment><USER4> Are you so naive? Someone will capture it, and a few minutes later it's everywhere...

<comment><USER5> ...You do know that was the joke he was making, right?

<comment><USER6> ... once he gets the joke, he can delete your comment about him not getting the joke also. The internet should totally work this way. :)

<comment><USER7> Right to be forgotten?

<comment><USER5> Abstract rights have a terrible history of implementation. See, "Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Rights are nice ideas which are only as meaningful as they are enforced by people with power.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Livestream Link: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw7XhgJhQDHkVrJjiw4CONg/liv...](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw7XhgJhQDHkVrJjiw4CONg/live)

<comment><AUTHOR> Clarification: Live Now!

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> So, how will I be able to watch it?

<comment><USER10> Check @kimdotcom on twitter for that answer and post here if you find out. (I try to keep my at-work browsing mostly technical! (: )

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> For people that watch it will be two thoughts. First will be the amazing number of things the prosecution will say that can't be proved, but they throw them out there to see what will stick. Second is how very boring court trials really are.

</comment><comment><USER12> Has anyone been following this trial? What are the odds that he'll be able to beat the extradition?

If he's extradited, he's probably facing a decade in some US prison :(

<comment><USER13> I'm hardly satisfied with the US copyright regime, but I'm not going to shed any tears for Kim Kimble given his long history of other frauds and scams.

Unfortunately, a portion of his fans either don't seem to be aware of that history, or they choose to overlook because they're wishing for some kind of "stick it to the man" underdog.

<comment><AUTHOR> Apart from the character at the center, this has to be one of the most interesting court cases in recent times, most definitely the most interesting in New Zealand. Just a few of the things that have happened:

* military style raid in New Zealand ( that turned out to be illegal )

* Illegal spying ( and then winning the right to sue the NZ five eyes spy agency )

* copyright infringement is generally not extraditable so extra charges to make the offence extraditable, e.g. conspiracy

* attempts to stop legal defence through seizure of assets, some of which were eventually were won back

Wikipedia article about the case for more info & references : [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload_legal_case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload_legal_case)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Ah yes, Kim Schmitz, AKA Kim Kimble, AKA Kim Dotcom -- Professional narcissist and scammer for over 20 years.

What do you think he'll change his name to next time he needs to run another scam or fleece some investors?

<comment><USER14> it is not really about the person in this case, but about the case (no pun intended). US gov overreached where normal due process should have taken its course.

<comment><USER13> If it's not really about him, then why did he petition to live-stream his own extradition hearing?

The actual legal aspects of the case are easy to record, this is all about creating media-exposure for his personal "brand" and agenda.

<comment><USER15> You don't get it. Kim is an asshat, fine, granted. No one is arguing against that.

But I don't think it's a good idea for us to throw away our rights just so one asshat gets what is coming to him.

<comment><USER13> How does running a private delayed-stream of court hearing have anything to do with the "our rights" you're concerned about?

This whole brouhaha was never about bringing video equipment into a courtroom for publicity.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you deal with potential acquirers? - <AUTHOR> How do you respond to someone who says they are interested in acquiring your business (especially a potential competitor) but won't make an offer until you share your financals and other confidential data? Do you ask them to make an offer without seeing the books first or share your data, hoping they make an offer, but realizing you're sharing confidential info? And how do you differentiate serious offers from time wasters who will chew all your time only to either not offer or low-ball after seeing your financial state? Can you get away with saying: "I'm not sharing you anything until you make an offer?" But then how can you obligate them to that?
And what if they are adamant that they won't make an offer until they see your books and do due diligence? I would think that if investors can make a Term Sheet commitment contingent on due diligence, so can you do that with potential acquirers. But they don't seem to see it that way?
Here's some suggestions we've gotten, but I don't know what is common place or accepted:
* Tell potential acquirers that they must first submit a Contingent Offer providing your books substantiate certain minimum metrics.
* Tell potential acquirers that they have to pay for your time in doing due diligence, setting a flat rate (say, $20k for sake of argument), with the amount counting as a non-refundable deposit towards the acquisition amount
* Use a trusted third party to do a due diligence review, providing your information to the third-party who will not disclose it to the acquirer, but only verify certain required facts or due diligence requests. The Trusted third party inspects the books and doesn't disclose them to the acquirer but knows their desired metrics.
* Breakup fee that penalizes them for walking away.
* Confidentiality agreement with huge damages for disclosing any of the information outside a small group of people in the acquiring company. <comment><USER2> Here is some more general advice: assume acquisitions are not going to happen, and that this whole conversation is probably a waste of time for you. Even if you tell them everything they want to know, they either won't make an offer or will lowball you. And meanwhile it will have been a huge and uniquely damaging distraction.

This model of the world doesn't imply any specific strategy you should follow, but you'll find that adopting it will change the way you think about the situation. You'll stop bending over backwards (why bother, since nothing is going to happen?) which will in turn make them take on the burden of figuring out how to make the deal happen, which they'll do if they're serious.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good advice! But how do you respond to indications of interest? Just ignore them and say you are not interested until they are literally waving cash in front of you, begging to aquire you, or require that they follow specific steps to indicate real interest, such as a Contingent Offer with a due diligence deposit, breakup fee, and strict NDA?

How is this done with the lots of sub $10M acquisitions that happen? Clearly deals are being done here, so I'm sure it doesn't pay to ignore bona fide offers, but obviously there's a lot of time wasters out there too.

What do you advise your YC portfolio companies to do here? Just ignore all offers or refer them to their lawyers or investors?

<comment><USER2> Our first advice is not even to talk to acquirers unless you want to sell the company now. It's remarkable how often founders who don't actively want to sell will talk to acquirers anyway, just to see if they'll make some offer too good to refuse. But acquirers never do that. When their offers are surprising, they are always surprisingly low. And the conversation is far from zero cost. Very far. That's the other big mistake.

<comment><USER3> My assumption would be if an acquirer is willing to make you an offer too good to refuse and you aren't actively looking to sell, then not talking to them would be the best way to actually spur that offer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> With regards to companies, I think pg's answer is the correct one.

In real estate, there is an institution called "earnest money." It is structurally similar to your 2nd bullet point -- a deposit against the eventual transaction price which is forfeited if the prospective buyer doesn't close the transaction within a particular window of time. (It gets returned if the seller kills the deal.) Earnest money protects the interests of the potential seller by screening out bozos. It protects the interests of the potential buyer by reassuring the potential seller that there are 120,000 reasons attesting to the buyer being really serious about the $6 million commercial property acquisition being discussed and therefore questions about e.g. engineering, permits, tenants, etc should be responded to as quickly as feasible.

$50,000 is barely about two work-weeks or less at the rates involved of professionals involve in M&A. If you want a quick out from fishing expeditions, tell them that you're willing to entertain offers but that, to avoid wasting the business' legal/accounting/engineering resources, you'll require $50k earnest money prior to dedicating them to exploring the feasibility of a deal.

A related strategy: "I'm not super-interested in doing an investment / acquisition / etc at the moment, but I'm a reasonable businessman and willing to entertain your offer." "We need a $FOO to get the ball rolling." "I have entertained that offer and do not feel it is the best use of our time to proceed on this at this time." "It is absolutely standard to..." "If your firm really wants to do this, I'm sure you'll figure out a way to make it happen. If not, no worries -- we'll both end this chat no worse than where we started it. Best of luck in your endeavors."

</comment><comment><USER5> I would assume that all agreements are something that can and will be broken. The only thing that works is make them put their money where their mouth is. If they are serious about acquiring you, they must be prepared to spend money to do it: lawyer fees, accounting fees, and money paid to you in exchange for your company. So, make sure there is money on the table: a non-refundable termination fee, which could be a percentage of the theoretical purchase price. I went with 5% with the sale of my company.

A good salesman will never put a price out there first, so you will probably need to come up with that valuation: just put it out there high enough so you will be happy were it to go through, and assume this is the beginning of the negotiation. If you and the acquirer cannot get close in that discussion, this is a good gauge of future success in the other more complicated discussions that will come.

As others have said, get a good lawyer. There are lots of places where this can go awry. When I sold my company (~$450k), I did not understand the difference between an asset sale and a stock sale which has vastly different taxation implications. A good accountant is worthwhile here as well for the same reason.

You can tell them you cannot engage in a detailed discussion without the termination fee conversation completed since you will be spending money as well.

<comment><USER6> > A good salesman will never put a price out there first [...]

Why would that be? Wouldn't a good salesman anchor as many details of the deal as possible in his favour?

<comment><USER7> Naming the first price tends to give up too much information. The other party now knows what you value it at (at either the highest or lowest price, depending on the side) and can negotiate you up or down from there. It also puts an immediate floor or ceiling on the negotiation that could burn you. This is _especially_ true if the information is asymmetrical.

Imagine you're interviewing for your first job in a new industry/country - they ask you what you want to earn, and you say "$50,000". Now they can either say "oh, that's much higher than our starting rate" or "that sounds about right" \- they'll almost never say "really? We were thinking $75k."

<comment><USER8> It might go against the business' interests to lowball a hire beyond the base salary, and in many places it is illegal to pay someone a lesser salary than somebody else in the same position. I've heard of the "we were thinking +$xx" happening a few times; I guess both sides end up very happy.

<comment><USER6> > [...] and in many places it is illegal to pay someone a lesser salary than > somebody else in the same position.

So everyone gets the same salary (in the same position)?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> First of all, get a lawyer. I went through the same thing, and talking with lawyers helped me get my head set correctly. There are various firms in SV and TX that focus on this sort of thing. I don't remember their names, but a web search will surely help you find them. Talk to the lawyers, tell them what you want, and what you got. Then have them take care of things. Otherwise, you might end up being liable for stuff you did not know about.

Also, a lot of companies do this to take away your focus. Don't treat the buyout as something real until the money clears. Otherwise, focus on the business.

<comment><USER10> I am going to counter this advice, and say first thing you do is gauge interest, start the conversations, let them push for it. When things are obviously starting to solidify and are getting serious, then consult with an attorney.

I just went through this situation last year, and while taking legal advice early on is good, it's _very_ easy for lawyers to get their share of money. If you already have a relationship with a lawyer, sit down with them for an hour and get an overview, but don't have them do anything like draft documents, review dialogue, etc. They'll want to do these things (billable hours) but they'll just cost you a ton, when 95% of the time the deal isn't going to happen anyway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Here's an answer I wrote to a similar question a couple months back:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6650317](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6650317)

Acquisition negotiations are extremely expensive. Assume they're going to fall through, and that you'll lose a lot in the process.

</comment><comment><USER12> Confidentiality agreement + breakup fee.

Be more worried about wastng your time and diverting attention from running your business than your competitors seeing your books.

Stay focused on your business. Sacca says companies are bought, not sold.

</comment><comment><USER13> Find a founder or board member type person who has been through a couple of these. I sold my company a couple years ago, and it was invaluable to be counseled by proven exit veteran.

Here's some general advice: * Come up with a number that you'd be willing to sell for, mostly to know when a deal is at least good enough * Anyone who is serious about dealing with you will not expect you to work for free, unless you truly have no power, which I suspect is unlikely * Keep growing & running your business until it's not your job anymore * Have fun, and don't make big decisions when tired or grumpy

Good luck my friend :)

</comment><comment><USER14> > * Breakup fee that penalizes them for walking away.

This is pretty standard, especially when there are regulatory concerns. AT&T ended up shelling out more than $1B when the T-Mobile deal fell apart.

<comment><AUTHOR> But what about the typical run-of-the-mill startup scenario where you're doing minimal to some small revenues and the potential acquirer is either a competitor or a larger company? Are breakup fees common in these single to low double digit $M acquisition scenarios?

<comment><USER5> Understand that "common" is a made up concept here. Every acquisition is different. You get what you demand here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Unstated is any indication of your own desire to continue with the business. Why would you entertain the time and effort for a failed conversation? Get this straight first.

Consider the likely possibility that your potential competitor learns of your financial situation, and operations in detail, and walks away, with the intent to modify their own business based on what they learn, thanks to your tutorial.

</comment><comment><USER16> I would impose a breakup fee to penalize them for walking away.That way you can keep non serious buyers at bay and safeguard your interest.

</comment><comment><USER17> I think you have a number of ideas already, anything more specific would probably depend on knowing the unique parameters of your situation. What business do you have that someone wants to acquire?</comment>


FOSS 101: Great/hip open source projects Python/JS/Ruby - <AUTHOR>

I'm an intermediate python programmer with very little JS / Ruby experience (want to learn both though)- and none with open source contributions. So far, that is.<p>Wondering if there any cool (ideally a bit faddish / trendy :) open source project people would recommend to start off my open-source contributions with. Ideally something that has the bureaucracy to review my code / give suggestions etc on how i cam improve my patches, and so i learn something in the balance! <comment><USER2> <http://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask> <http://flask.pocoo.org/>

and explore: <http://github.com/repositories>

<comment><AUTHOR> funny you mention flask - i was going to add that as one of the projects that seem interesting. It wasnt very clear that this would an appropriate project to start of with, as the code review etc doesnt look very formalized?</comment></comment>


Live Search with QuickSilver Style (for jQuery) - <AUTHOR> http://orderedlist.com/our-writing/blog/articles/live-search-with-quicksilver-style-for-jquery/ <comment><USER2> This is nice in FF on the Mac but doesn't seem to work in Chrome on the Mac (not that developers <i>need</i> to support a beta browser quite yet). After building and using some complex web apps, it would be nice if there were search boxes like this that quick-linked to functions in the application. For example, if I am new to a project management application, and need to find something obscure like, "login settings", it would be nice if I could type "login" and see a list of things that matched that function.

<comment><AUTHOR> Odd, I'm using Chrome 5.0.366.0 on my Macbook. The demo works fine.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I was inspired by this when I created a filter-able program for the CHI Conference this year. Hoping to bring this feature to all future conference programs for CHI.

<http://nirmalpatel.com/chiProgram/program.html>

</comment><comment><USER3> The demo really needs to disable autocomplete for the input field: [https://developer.mozilla.org/en/How_to_Turn_Off_Form_Autoco...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en/How_to_Turn_Off_Form_Autocompletion#How_to_Turn_Off_the_Autocompletion_Feature)</comment>


Node.js or Python/Django? - <AUTHOR> I've been using Node.js for quite a while and have become pretty invested. But I can't help but have a "grass is greener" feeling about python and Django. Python is just so much prettier than Javascript, but I feel like I'd be jumping off of the fast- moving node train! I am currently a senior CS student, so I'll also be looking for a job soon. Should I focus my time on python? or stay with node? <comment><USER2> Stick with Node because the job market is currently hotter for it, get into a hot startup to get practical experience and make some contacts, and then wait for the next technology cycle. I suspect that both Node and Django will be obsolete in roughly a year or two.

(My background: I started doing Java Swing before college; wrote a bunch of PHP in college; got my first job working on Java webapps with servlets and JSF; founded a startup that successively ended up using web.py, Pylons, and Django; got into Google where I ended up writing webapps in C++; participated in the rewrite of that C++ server in Java, and am now using straight Django for my second startup. The technology world really does move in cycles. Use whatever you're most familiar with, learn it well, milk all you can out of it, and then move on only when you have to. You can save yourself years of effort by avoiding the latest fad and "grass is greener" syndrome.)

<comment><USER3> > I suspect that both Node and Django will be obsolete in roughly a year or > two.

Quite a bold statement about Django, which I can't agree with.

Django has bee around since 2005 - for 9 years. Longer than node.js lifespan. I don't really see any large competitors in the web framework field that would push Django from its current position.

Check careers.stackoverflow.com for jobs tagged with Django - quite a lot. That shows rather strong position of the framework on the jobs market. Those jobs may not be hip or not in startups, but nevertheless - they are there.

Anyway. Certainly framework fading away is not something new, but I would be surprised if that would happen to Django in the next two years. Five - possible. Two - doubt it.

<comment><USER4> By obsolete, he probably meant that new companies wouldn't be adopting it anymore, and that the only jobs left would involve maintaining legacy code.

<comment><USER5> I seriously doubt that.

There are new sites added to this index every day - [https://www.djangosites.org/](https://www.djangosites.org/)

Chess.com also relaunched using Django in their webstack.

I'd say that things are going to pick up for Django - they've got a solid plan moving forward and they can nip at rails devs by introducing websockets, SSE and WebRTC features which rails doesn't have (out of the box).

The main weakness for Django in my opinion is the community isn't as vibrant and energetic as it is with node or rails.

<comment><USER2> My own startup is using Django, so I'm certainly aware that there are new sites being launched with it every day. I was one of them last week. :-)

What I mean by obsolete is that it is no longer the hot new thing on the bleeding edge of technology. I chose Django _because_ it wasn't the hot new thing; I'm already familiar with it, I've written a half dozen sites using it, and a general rule when founding a startup is that you shouldn't compound market risk with technical risk. Right now, my biggest problem is building a product that users want; I want the shortest path toward getting the big things right, not the sexiest little things.

But Django is definitely showing its age, and the environment has changed in ways that make you work _around_ the framework instead of _with_ the framework. Users are getting accustomed to logging in with Facebook or Google instead of having a separate registration system for each site; this is available with django-allauth, but then what's the point of having a built-in authentication system? Users are increasingly getting accustomed to direct- manipulation user interfaces instead of forms; Django has no support for that, and newer alternatives like Meteor beat the pants off it in that regards. Users are shifting to mobile; Django mobile support is spotty, largely provided by a set of sparsely-maintained third-party addons.

And then there are new technologies that promise to throw a huge monkey wrench into the web development ecosystem. Polymer & webcomponents are coming down the pipe, quickly; they introduce the idea of an application as a client-side set of individual downloadable components, which means that a lot of Django's routing, form, and templating infrastructure is no longer relevant. The increasing use of storage options other than RDBMS (Redis, Mongo, RethinkDB, protobufs or JSON on disk) makes the ORM less useful. JS-heavy apps shift the focus from building HTML quickly to building bundles of related JS functionality quickly, and Django has no built-in features for that. The most common solution, Bower, is pretty heavily tied to the Node.js ecosystem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Hard question, which I'm dealing myself too.

Right now I think you should concentrate on Node.js - finish your degree, maybe join some exciting startup or start something yourself. Keep looking at python from time to time. Maybe do some hackathons or tiny projects by yourself.

Node.js is certainly fast moving train. But where would it end up in? I don't really keep my hand on the pulse of the node.js community, but I'm not sure node.js is here to stay in the long run. Node.js will be used for various things for a long time. It has amazing websockets implementation, asyc execution does have some great benefits, but the code. My god is it messy. As mundanevoice points out below - you have to be a very solid and experienced developer to keep it all sane.

About python. I think it'll be around for a while. It is solid, it is readable, it is fast. Python community is large, there's a lot of very high quality tools written for it. It may not be so hip as node, but there's a lot of jobs for python devs out there.

All said, I myself is still torn about this question, though. I know both languages, but I've used node.js in more exciting projects than python. Python is so beautiful, but node.js stuff is interesting. So I'm still on the crossroads - which way I want to go all the way. And should I?

Python is a solid choice in the long run - it'll be around. Node.js? Most likely too, but for what purpose and how many companies would go with it?

<comment><AUTHOR> This is awesome, Thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> It really depends on what you want to do. Python wins big with a wide and varied ecosystem outside the basic web domain. Do things like computational science, data analysis, mathematical modelling, statistics, GIS etc. sound like something you might want to get into? If so python is a much better bet. If ,on the other hand, you're happy in the web services domain where node has its main strengths, then node.js vs python pretty much works out to a draw and there is not too much reason to switch.

</comment><comment><USER7> I am writing Python/Django professionally for two years now. I have also written some Node.js at work and Open Source. ([https://github.com/vinitkumar/node- twitter](https://github.com/vinitkumar/node-twitter)). So, I think I would be able to give some advice.

Node.js is all cool to experiment with and build some projects but it gets incredibly tough when you want to write something complex. I am not saying that it is impossible to build something complex, but it would take a very experienced developer to do all of that in acceptable time.

Python/Django on other hand has a very mature ecosystem and the development is really fast as compared to Node.js which also has a fast start but you get stuck when you need to build something complex. There are many quality plugins for Python/Django which in IMHO much better in quality than npm packages.

Python on other hand is a better language than JS and you won't need to fight the language to write better code (The point is it is very easy to shoot yourself on foot while using JS).

If I were you at this stage of your career, I would suggest to start doing Python/Django and maybe learn some good Golang/C++.

</comment><comment><USER8> There's absolutely no reason you can't be fluent in JS, Python _and_ Ruby. Just try Python for your next project, then maybe try Ruby for the one after that. Or perhaps a functional language like Clojure or Haskell. Each successive language you learn will take about half as long as the last one, because you've accumulated the concepts and it's just learning more syntax.

Node may turn out to be a fad, so don't hitch your wagon to it fully. To be a good (web) developer you are often going to need to learn new languages and frameworks as the tech landscape changes.

</comment><comment><USER9> I've programmed a lot in Python before I started using NodeJS. Once I got over the shock of the tangled mess that can be written in JS, I found NodeJS + NPM very productive. I've never grokked Django well enough to use it in production.

At this point in your career I'd suggest polishing your Node / JS skillz and make yourself valuable to a potential employer. Being so-so with Python (or any other language) is not likely to increase your value in the marketplace.

If I were in your situation, I'd sooner look at Go or Rust than Python, but only once you are earning good money.

<comment><USER10> I always hear people suggesting Go or Rust, but I have never seen a job advertised (in Europe). Am I just looking in the wrong places?

<comment><USER11> Rust isn't even stable yet, so there are very few companies using it in production. The ones that are tend to be pretty exciting, though. :P

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I personally love the Python environment and community. There is very little you ever need that you can't find a module for. It is also a very well adopted language that many developers know and is increasingly popular in education so the amount of people using it is almost artificially increased. Django as a framework is used by a ton of big companies and sites and has proven itself to be very scalable and durable. Node to me is horrible just because of javascript, so take my bias with a grain of salt ;)

</comment><comment><USER13> Why limit your choices to these two? There are more great frameworks and great languages. Ruby on Rails is an obvious candidate. Ruby is a lovely language and Rails is a solid framework, perhaps even the best web framework out there for many tasks. There's also plenty of demand for Ruby/Rails talent.

</comment><comment><USER14> Scala!

You'll have the excellent Play Framework and Spray IO. WebJars, SbtWeb, and its plugins lets you add all sorts of goodness including calling nodejs stuff on your javascripts. And you won't stray too far from the JVM.

</comment><comment><USER15> No harm to learning Python, especially when you are a student and have the time.

You need to learn multiple languages/platforms, and learn to use the best tool for the problem.

</comment><comment><USER16> What is Node.js? It's an implementation of the Reactor pattern along with some package management capabilities plus a bit of hype:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactor_pattern](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactor_pattern)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_package_manage...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_package_management_systems)

Both are possible in Python, while leveraging a _MUCH_ better language.

</comment><comment><USER17> If you have the time, don't jump into Django right away. Try Python without a framework first, if you have time.

</comment><comment><USER18> This is a horrible question, why would you even ask something so stupid and mundane. If I were you I'd just give up and become a wordpress developer</comment>


I was the one who came forward about the Macbook Air - <AUTHOR> http://sam.bluwiki.com/blog/2010/03/confession-i-was-one-who-came-forward.php <comment><USER2> _Daniel recognizes his mistake and is simply trying to put this issue behind him. I regret that this post might make it more difficult for Daniel to do that._

Why the hell does everyone seem to tiptoe around this guy? Asking for bribes isn't some sort of youthful indiscretion, its indicative of a fundamental personality trait that won't change as he gets older.

 _The more I learn about Jason and Loren, the clearer their malicious intent becomes._

Its unfortunate that he didn't do his homework on this one before contacting Calcanis.

From my interactions with Sam, he seems like a good guy trying to do right by others by making something useful for them. He shouldn't be in any way apologetic to these leeches.

<comment><USER3> I don't think it's a fundamental personality trait. Bribery is common in certain countries. Do you think it's because the people in such countries have different fundamental personality traits? Seems more likely this sort of thing is largely determined by the situation. The kid may have just gotten carried away by the power he suddenly found himself holding.

<comment><USER4> Let's say honesty is a fundamental personality trait. One can be honest and bribe in a country where bribery is accepted. That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. It's not the act of bribing that determines one's personality trait - it's the honesty.

<comment><USER5> I don't really think honesty is a fundamental personality trait either. Consider that in polite adult society, there're many times that you are _expected_ to lie, and it's considered rude if you don't. If a women asks, "Do I look fat?", do you say yes? If someone asks you "How are you?", do you go on about how your life sucks and you wish you had their job?

It's more that there are certain culturally-dependent rules of behavior, and considerate people eventually learn and conform to those rules. Oftentimes the rules make zero sense in logical terms; they evolved through long years of accumulated customs.

Most teenagers are still learning those rules, and part of learning them involves breaking them. Didn't you ever push the boundaries as a teenager? Do something that perhaps your parents and other authority figures disapproved of?

<comment><USER4> I was just commenting on how it could be possible that accepting bribery in one country, but not in another doesn't imply a different fundamental personality trait, as was assumed in the example.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> _"On February 5th, Jason Calacanis posted some thoughts on the Techcrunch "extortion" story. I found his article insightful and well written. Wanting to reach out to someone about the issues I've been struggling with, I emailed him and confessed my involvement."_

This is the first time I have actually performed a real facepalm.

<comment><USER7> +1. Reaching out to someone? Not a horrible idea. Reaching out to Calacanis? What in the hell was he (not) thinking? He's the nosy watercooler gossip lady of the blogosphere.

<comment><USER8> He's worse than that. Mahalo is Yahoo 1994 being sold to people as if it's something else. I pity his investors.

<comment><USER9> It's much worse than that. Yahoo 1994 was providing some real value, in terms of organizing and filtering information.

Yahoo 1994 would be something for Mahalo to aspire to.

<comment><USER7> Wow! You guys are _harsh_. Love it. I should have been harsher. :P

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I have to say, he handled it very well considering the circumstances. I don't think Divvyshot was at fault here either, his responses to Daniel were perfectly understandable.

<comment><USER11> It almost sounds like what happens in sexual harassment cases. The victim will often not give a straightforward refusal, because they're trying to avoid the consequences confrontation may lead to. It's not particularly admirable, but it is _totally_ understandable.

<comment><USER12> I've lived in a few different countries and cultures and one thing I've learned is that the reply "Maybe later" is a polite way of saying "I will definitely not do it but I want to avoid any confrontation." It's actually quite surprising how universal this is.

<comment><USER13> Yes, good point - perhaps, because of Daniel's age and inexperience, he didn't know about this social cue and kept on pushing it when he should have read between the lines.

I'm sure we've all done dumb stuff in our youth we'd like to forget.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Calacanis does not seem worth trusting based on this.

<comment><USER15> 1\. I did forward the note to Loren, but I didn't think Loren would use it this way.

2\. Loren shouldn't have and that was not cool.

3\. Daniel has problems and needs to get help. I feel bad for him because doing something so extreme at a young age so publicly is, well, not good.

4\. Good on the company who turned Daniel in and who confessed--that's brave. It was also really stupid and desperate to even consider, let alone promise, giving a laptop in return for a blog post. Honestly, if you're company doesn't get attention don't get desperate... just keep trying!

5\. Bad on me for sending this to Loren. I honestly didn't even read the whole thing... I was like "oh here is an email from the dude who got extorted cool... " I actually didn't think it was that big of deal.

6\. If you can do a story about Open Angel Forum on Thursday and get it to the top slot on HN I will gladly give you an Apple Tablet.

Anyway, I've got more important things to attend to at 1AM than Daniel extortion plot fall out.

peace and love,

jcal

<comment><USER16> Why do people downmod Jason's post? Disagreeing is not a reason for downmodding. I was interested in his response, whatever it might be. I want to judge for myself.

<comment><USER15> because they are Jason Haters.... Jayters.

there are a group of them who down vote everything i post... doesn't matter how insightful... TEN DOWN VOTES!!

it's kind of funny.

<comment><USER17> I did not downvote your comment even though your comment sounded insincere and provocative. I did not down-vote because it was already low on points. I think most HN-ers hate downvoting.

 _there are a group of them who down vote everything i post... doesn't matter how insightful..._

I don't have much experience in the industry other than reading a few blogs and even I could not spot any _insights_ in most of your past comments in HN (especially the ones from the SEOmoz debate).

 _Anyway, I've got more important things to attend to at 1AM than Daniel extortion plot fall out._

Really? This is enough to piss off anyone who read it. As far as I can understand you forwarded a private email. You have more important things to do than attending to things you screwed up? I can't understand what is so insightful in that.

(Good that you apologized to Daniel. Kudos)

<comment><USER15> <http://bit.ly/peacenlove>

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Yeah, you made some mistakes, but don't be _too_ hard on yourself. That kind of situation is unexpected and when you're in the moment, it's hard to know how to respond. Good on you for doing the right thing in the end, and for coming clean about everything publicly now. In the end, a person's character is less about never making mistakes than how you handle the mistakes you do make.

</comment><comment><USER19> Loren Feldman's threats against Divvyshot:

> _"If I were ipodrip and divvyshot, Id be be starting to think about damage > control. Arrington cant hide you forever."_

> _"Divvyshot. you have 24 hrs."_

Veiled threats via Twitter? Come on. Unnecessarily dramatic and threatening, childish even.

<comment><USER20> <http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate/>

A little heavier of a threat than just twitter but this Loren guy came out as the biggest scumbag out of all of them for me.

<comment><USER8> Loren's just reporting it - and says he got his info from multiple sources.

He didn't ask for bribes, nor did he tell anyone he'd provide a bribe. Yes he's a dirty, agressive man, that makes puppets of his enemies to mock them, but that's just his personality - his ethics aren't being called into question here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> This account contradicts what Daniel Brusilovsky said during his Mixergy interview (<http://mixergy.com/daniel-brusilovsky/>).

From the interview transcript:

Interviewee: I mean, so there were conversations that I had with this company and both in jokingly in manner and that they may have perceived as the real thing.

Andrew: I see so you and I are sitting and talking and I might want you to write about Mixergy for Tech crunch and I say listen Dan. Why don't you write for Mixergy? Why don't you write about Mixergy on Tech crunch? No there's nothing, there's no loops here. I say what if I give you this Mac book pro that I'm writing? That kind of joke.

Interviewee: Exactly!

Andrew: We're not giving you the Mac book pro but we're kidding around.

Interviewee: Yeah

<comment><USER22> For what it's worth, Daniel told me who turned him into TC, but I agreed not to say.

And these two accounts of the conversations contradict each other. What you excerpted here is pretty much what he told me before the interview.

A few lines down from your excerpt:

Interviewee: There are IMs. They're not made public and hopefully they won't be made public.

<comment><USER23> _Daniel told me who turned him into TC, but I agreed not to say._

Kudos.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I must be missing something (I haven't followed this story), but how is this an issue at all for anyone except TC and their journalistic integrity? Am I supposed to feel morally outraged that a tiny startup even just entertained the idea of giving someone a gift in exchange for blog coverage? Is there actually something here or just self-important silicon valley pundit drama? (god I'm glad I unsubscribed from TC long ago)

<comment><USER25> Seems like its a small start-up founder trying to protect his baby from PR hungry wolves.

<comment><USER26> Yes, especially since these PR hungry wolves gave him 24 hours to confess publicly before they put their own spin on what happened. I commend him for coming out in good faith and being upfront and honest about the situation. I definitely have more respect for him and Divvyshot as an organization after this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I feel for Divvyshot, the actual event seems way beyond their control and this has brought a whole new angle. It just makes me wonder how many other eager startups may have/will/could be put in this kind of situation for 'positive coverage', when they have a lot at stake in their business.

</comment><comment><USER28> I think you guys are way to easy on Daniel using the cover of youth and naivety, at 17 you are more than capable of knowing this kind of behavior is unacceptable. The only reason he would do extort someone like this is because he is fully aware of the power of his position. If what Sam is saying is true.. then there should be no excuse.

<comment><USER15> Correct.

Daniel wants to be treated like an adult when he is writing a story or claiming to be the stage manager at TechCrunch50 (uhhh.... no, he wasn't). Then he wants to be forgiven for a folly of youth when he extorts startups.

He's an adult, he f-ed up and he really never apologized correctly. "A line was crossed" is not an apology... he really should have said "I tried to extort thousands of dollars from companies in exchange for blogs posts and I betrayed the trust of the people who helped me most in my professional life: the TechCrunch team."

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Honest question: why does anyone listen to anything Loren Feldman says?

</comment><comment><USER30> Loren Feldman responds:

<http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate-what-makes-sammy-run/>

Me personally? I signed up for Divvyshot a few weeks ago and forgot about it. I'm about to go check it out again now. I like Sam's attitude and honesty.

<comment><USER31> The tone in that post by Feldman makes my skin crawl. I hadn't heard of him before but I don't think I could ever read anything he's written now. Is he always like that? ICK.

<comment><USER30> sadly, yes. i used to read his blog when it was good natured poking of fun at the tech industry (arrington, scoble etc) but since he seems to have developed some issue with tech crunch, he has become vindictive, nasty and nothing more than an internet troll.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> This is one of those stories that I can't read without thinking "The Valley is a wacky, wacky place".

<comment><USER33> A few other adjectives come to mind, but... yeah. Not sure having glanced at this story really adds anything to my life. It just looks like a big "Internet Drama" piece:-/ I'm sure it's important to those involved, but it really doesn't affect my life.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> The worst part of this story is that it exposed me to the 1938media website. A 45 year old man making youtube puppet shows about bloggers? yikes.

</comment><comment><USER35> For what it's worth, I just signed up for Divvyshot. I had to fight hard not to say "giving it a shot."

</comment><comment><USER36> Now I know not to trust Jason Calcanis. He always seemed like a good guy, if a bit of a megalomaniac.

Anybody who forwards private emails is way beyond the pale of somebody who offers a MacBook Air for good coverage. The latter is an ethical lapse, the former is evidence of a deep character flaw.

Jason Calcanis owes the community a large, unequivocal apology through his newsletter - without ads and hyperbole.

</comment><comment><USER37> I had a long response to all of this drama typed out but in the end I decided to simplify it down to this:

What part of this, if any, is constructive to the startup community?

<comment><USER38> I wonder if there's a smallish set of keywords that one could filter to get a less valley-drama-filled HN, with a higher percentage of that excellent tech content. Maybe filter out anything involving "calacanis" and "techcrunch" and see how it goes (though this particular post would be hard to catch, since the title only alludes to it).

<comment><USER39> Hacker Newspaper removes all TechCrunch stories: <http://hacker- newspaper.gilesb.com/>

Wouldn't catch this story but it would remove a lot of drama.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> I find it ironic that by going around and routinely downvoting anything jasonmcalacanis posts in these comments it makes them much easier to spot; I simply scrolled down and read everything in light grey.

</comment><comment><USER41> personally, I'm sick of this kindergarden. While I agree that journalistic integrity is very important, I fail to see the gravity in this issue to warrant it being blow out of proportions the way it is.

Who cares about some crappy MacBook Air (that whould not have been fun to work with anyways) and a startup like so many others doing what so many others do?

There are so many much bigger issues than stuff like this. Get a grip.

Sorry. I had to vent. Now mod me down into oblivion. I guess European and US cultures don't quite mix - over here, stuff like this just is no big deal.

</comment><comment><USER42> Calacanis is going to love this - that man thrives on controversy, good and bad, and we keep letting him back into the spotlight.

<comment><USER15> voted up

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> I'm surprised the 'ask' was as blatant as it was; I thought it would have been a sort of roundabout quid pro quo, "my project needs this, friends help me with hardware, I make sure my friends get good TC coverage." But, Brusilovsky was young and unsubtle!

</comment><comment><USER44> Regardless of whose story is correct (<http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate- what-makes-sammy-run> vs. [http://sam.bluwiki.com/blog/2010/03/confession-i- was-one-who...](http://sam.bluwiki.com/blog/2010/03/confession-i-was-one-who- came-forward.php)), a real lesson for young people in this community emerged: Your character and personality can be more powerful than your fame.

People here have commented on how thoughtful and helpful Sam is. Yet Loren's tone of voice alone has made it probably impossible for his words to be taken seriously. Imagine his above response written calmly - or even just respectfully: He would stand a much better chance of being listened to.

And Jason's approach to the matter appears equally immature. I've never met any of these players, but Sam sounds like he's much older than Jason or Loren. This doesn't mean you have to sound like a "boring old guy" - but it does mean that you give yourself an uphill battle when you speak like a child.

<comment><USER45> My only exposure to this has been this thread and the links posted in it. This has allowed me to see Sam, Jason, and Loren in action. I have no chips in this game, so to speak; having never heard of any of these people before today, I'm as neutral an observer as they come.

Sam comes across as thoughtful, tempted to do something foolish and immoral, but ultimately a guy who did the right thing.

Daniel (via secondhand sources) comes across as a fool who may have sacrificed his career over a macbook, but who seems to have learned from his foolishness. It remains to be seen how he'll weather this.

Loren and Jason don't come across as reasonable or trustworthy to me. None of what they've said here or in the linked stories has made me think "these are people I want to go to for information". Jason seems to have trouble taking things seriously and he's made a lot of excuses for himself. Loren just comes across as mean and vindictive. So I guess my contribution to this thread is to say, Loren and Jason, you've created some image problems for yourselves. I know I'll be taking anything I see your names attached to with a grain of salt from here on out.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Irony: extorting someone into talking about how they were extorted.

Also, Loren just posted another piece on the matter. But I won't link to it because it's total trash. It's one giant attack on Sam's character without saying anything at all interesting.

And if you do go look at the post, be a good citizen and use adblock =]

</comment><comment><USER47> Funny how when the FCC demanded that bloggers disclose any gifts they receive while covering something they were all in arms about it. It was mandated to avoid situations like this. If they want to be accepted as serious journalism they have to expect to be treated as such. If you fuck up, lie, take bribes or violate journalism ethics then expect to fired and hung out to dry.

</comment><comment><USER48> I love Scoble's response to this:

 _I'm more likely to check out Divvyshot because of this post. Thanks, off to check it out!_

Any publicity is good publicity, it seems..

</comment><comment><USER49> [http://www.inquisitr.com/64659/like-meatloaf-through-a- straw...](http://www.inquisitr.com/64659/like-meatloaf-through-a-straw- crunchgate-drags-on/)

</comment><comment><USER50> The only problem with all this nonsense is that Jason Calacanis wasn't the only one who knew. In fact I probably knew before him. He was just the one who Sam confessed to. Did that ever occur to any of you? In terms of this flaming email so what? So Jason sent me an email that I can't even remember which is probably due to the fact that it contained nothing I didn't already know. I don't get this whole thing. No emails of any kind were printed, talked about nothing. Here's my more theatrical response.

<http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate-the-blame-game/#respond>

<comment><USER51> Dude, you are seriously unbalanced. Do you have any talents other than yelling into a video camera? Who appointed you the watchdog of tech industry ethics?

The worst you can say about Sam Odio is that he wasn't more timely and direct with his refusal. As others have pointed out, saying maybe is often an easier way of saying no. In the end he didn't provide the kick back and he did the right thing by going to Techcrunch.

I'm sure you've got your own skeletons and as you so ominously warned Odio, 'you will get what's coming to you'.

Karma's a bitch.

<comment><USER48> If you came in blind to Loren on this particular episode, sure, he comes off as a bit of a tool, but he's playing this as theater. I don't know 100%, but _I_ think he's playing a great "angry man" persona (in a similar way to how Zed Shaw did for a while - just in video form).

I rarely agree with anything Loren says, but he makes for compelling, funny watching. Take his recent review of ChatRoulette, for example: <http://youtu.be/nMlTuS39zC0> \- watching Loren is like visiting one of those theme restaurants that have deliberately bad service.

He also looks like my plumber, so that makes him pretty cool in my book.

<comment><USER51> No, I have seen a lot of his videos and he always comes off as a tool. I've heard Loren and others justify his attacks on people as comedy, but comedy is meant to be funny. And trust me when I say that the dude can dish it but he certainly can't take it.

More to the point of this article though is that he threatened to expose someone and possibly damage their reputation without any proof of wrongdoing.

There's nothing wrong with expressing your opinion about or making light of a situation. What he did is closer to blackmail or defamation.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Samba Documents Provider - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/google/samba-documents-provider <comment><AUTHOR> This is an SMB client for Android, released by Google. Posted because I somehow missed this when it was announced, and it just solved a problem for me.</comment>


Photosynth: Pretty neat iOS app from MS for capturing panoramas - <AUTHOR> http://photosynth.net/capture.aspx And you get a little feel of how WP7's Metro theme looks like on your iOS devices <comment><AUTHOR> And you get a little feel of how WP7's Metro theme looks like on your iOS devices, sort of.</comment>


Make a 60 Sec Video Pitch in 500 Photos, $2 and 1 Day - <AUTHOR> http://avandamiri.com/2011/10/09/60-second-video-pitch-in-500-photos-2-dollars-1-day.html

<comment><USER2> Good advice, but GREAT post. THIS is the type of brilliant marketing that doesn't get pointed out often enough. I think it's because it's so gentle or subtle that it feels "bad" to call it "marketing."

But I'm curious and I think the whole group would benefit if you'd acknowledge your thought process in posting this b/c NOW we're all aware of your company b/c we watched your pitch in an effort to meet our needs. This isn't an accident, is it?

Well Done.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! I genuinely was not looking for feedback on the idea. Not now anyway. We've done some testing on a small scale to realize what we're missing. Hopefully once we get to a real version one I'll reach out here for some feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed the post.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Are you sure you're not violating the Friendly Music license? Specifically this: "Can my video be an advertisement for a product? No." Here's the whole license agreement: [http://friendlymusic.com/docs/friendly-music-license- agreeme...](http://friendlymusic.com/docs/friendly-music-license- agreement.pdf)

<comment><AUTHOR> Looks like you're right. I'll have to pay more attention to the fine print next time!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Awesome. Wish I saw this before I paid (wayyyyy more than $2) for an animated video for <http://recessionitis.com>

I'm def gonna give it a try.. I just got to brush up on my "coloring" :-)

<comment><AUTHOR> It's all about the catchy whistling soundtrack!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Hey, that's a great idea if you've only got $2 or so.

I think you'd get better results if you have a digital camera. I found, even with the cheap camera I had at the time, that putting it on a tripod, and aiming it down at the table, and zooming in the appropriate amount let me take really stellar shots. Many cameras these days come with IR remotes so you can trigger them without touching them (important so you avoid messing up the shot during animation.)

I wonder, though, wouldn't it be easier to do something like this and get better results using a program like Motion? (part of the final cut suite.) I've never used a motion graphics program before, but Motion costs $50, and that's within my budget!

<comment><AUTHOR> The digital camera and tripod sounds like a great version 2 of this. I've never heard of Motion but will check it out!</comment></comment>


Text of Steve Jobs' Commencement address (2005) - <AUTHOR> http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505

<comment><USER2> This keeps popping up every month. We really need some kind of "best of" to avoid this.

<comment><USER3> Doesn't "Hacker News" imply links that are only new? How about an "old" flag that buries the submission and bans the user from adding new submissions for a few days?

<comment><USER4> A no-posting-ban would be way too strong for this kind of error. If we're going to make the distinction that something is old, first of all, pg ought to add better duplicate detection (I've seen cases where the same link can be submitted multiple times if enough time has passed, I think). Secondly, posting something old is almost always an innocent mistake; so if we're going to criminalize it, we ought to at least present the poster with a digg-like "Are these items similar to what you posted?" thing to give them a chance to fix it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Video of the address: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc></comment>


Great online curation of systems papers - <AUTHOR> https://www.systemswemake.com

<comment><USER2> It's probably not wise to link to the HTTPS version when it has a broken certificate.</comment>


Fog Creek is about to go down - <AUTHOR> http://fogcreekstatus.typepad.com/ <comment><USER2> Stack Exchange (Stack Overflow) barely made it out. We are in the same datacenter but we just finished building out and testing a secondary datacenter in Oregon literally last weekend. We did an emergency failover last night after the datacenter went to generators. Read more at <http://blog.serverfault.com>

<comment><USER3> Just curious, wouldn't it have been wiser to put the failover servers somewhere in the Midwest? It's pretty much as far away from the ocean as one can get, making tsunamis/hurricanes/etc. irrelevant, low earthquake risk, and a shorter flight from NYC. Seems a little inadvisable to place the infrastructure in two coastal areas; I guess it's probably about the local talent pool.

<comment><USER4> Yeah, Oregon is known for it's viscous tsunamis and earthquakes. Also if a tropical cyclone hit Oregon it would not be a hurricane, it would be a typhoon. <http://www.diffen.com/difference/Hurricane_vs_Typhoon>

I think the idea of the second data center is that it is far away from the first one.

<comment><USER5> FYI, according to your link: "The difference between hurricane and typhoon is that tropical cyclones in the west Pacific are called Typhoons and those in the Atlantic and east Pacific Ocean are called Hurricanes." Last I checked, Oregon is in the east Pacific, so the tropical cyclone would (indeed) be called a hurricane, yes?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> We depend on FogBugz (hosted) to answer our support E-mails. If the downtime is on the order of several hours, I'm fine with it, these things happen. But if (as it looks like) it is on the order of days, I'll be looking for another solution.

When you offer hosted services (not cheap, mind you), you take on responsibilities. Among them are disaster recovery scenarios. We do have ours and I'm expecting any company for a cloud-hosted solution to have theirs.

<comment><USER7> This is precisely why we have a self host requirement for all of our software. We did have a ton of stuff in salesforce but due to a number of problems with salesforce availability and the inevitable problem of relying on British Telecom's infrastructure monkeys, it got moved to a locally hosted dynamics CRM solution with off site transaction log shipping should the office catch fire.

Cost a small fortune but there is nothing more expensive than not being there for your paying customers.

<comment><USER8> Judging by current Twitter traffic for @trello, there is a clear need for a self-hosted version.

<comment><USER9> That's not going to happen.

<comment><USER10> It'd be a smart way for them to finally make money off of it.

<comment><USER9> I'm no longer with the company, so I may be out of date, but the consensus was that it was just too expensive to support licensed products if it weren't necessary. The thing that people don't take into account is that there are an endless number of server configurations that can screw up the application, and for a small company, dealing with each one of those is quite expensive.

So what's the alternative? Keep it hosted-only. The downside is that, yes, outages like this happen. But I would argue that, on the whole, the overall Trello downtime has been far less than the cumulative downtime of people trying to run it themselves. Moreover, this was an extremely unusual storm. Buoys reported waves 5 times higher than anything on record. My guess is, the cost-benefit analysis is still solidly in on the side of having a hosted product in an easily accessible data center.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> We use Fogbugz for all our internal project tracking. The consensus among our engineers is that this downtime is understandable and we'd rather deal with it, even in a mission-important web app, than pay more every month to insure redundancy was available.

Frankly this is just making us appreciate Fogbugz all the more since tracking our time without it will be a real PITA.

<comment><USER8> I don't know what Fogbugz costs, but they really should start charging for Trello now, esp. if they can use some of that revenue to add geo-redundancy.

Trello is fantastic, but now I'm worried that I'm too dependent on it and I should arrange an offline alternative.

Take my money, Fog Creek.

<comment><USER12> Geo-redundancy is a tough engineering problem. We're building a long term solution but it's a lot of work and it's not in place today.

If this is the kind of problem that excites you, we're hiring :-)

<comment><USER13> It's particularly hard to shoehorn in after the fact. Certain development models (e.g. replicated state machines) make it much easier... mix in some magic Paxos dust and it can handle machine failures as well.

Sadly the better implementations I've used myself (or have heard about) are not publicly available. The closest thing in semi-widespread use seems to be Zookeeper, but it's more like Oracle when you really wanted SQLite (standalone service vs. library).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Too bad that the backup generator refuelling pumps have been submerged (while the generators themselves are running).

That sounds like some really ... unfortunate planning of the positioning of these machines, made me think of the Daiichi incident when backup assets failed to come online because parts of the backup infrastructure were destroyed. Not as serious, of course. Fog Creek's hosting isn't a nuclear power plant. :)

Makes me glad I don't work with things that are as hard to test in the real world as these kinds of backup solutions must be. I hope they manage the refuelling, somehow.

<comment><USER15> That's the first thing I thought of too. Seems like there should be a new rule that your backup generator infrastructure should be on at least the second floor.

<comment><USER16> That means that the fuel tanks will have to be there as well or you're going to need some specialized lines/equipment to prime the pumps. How much would a 3" cylinder of diesel fuel about ten foot tall weigh? (What ever it is that would be a crap load of vacuum to produce/maintain). Then you have the weight of the tanks themselves and refilling logistics. All fun engineering problems. :)

<comment><USER17> What if you pumped it up by having a hydrostatically balanced system: instead of sucking up the fuel, pump water down to drive a piston that pushes the fuel up.

<comment><USER16> Interesting idea, I'm not an engineer so I can't really speak to that. It sounds like you'd be adding more points of failure and still have the potential of a submerged pump being and issue. Maybe something other than a piston?

<comment><USER17> A flooded piston would be more reliable than a flooded motor IMO. Lots of reliability critical things like vehicle brakes use pistons. All you would need is enclosed tubing sufficient to withstand the internal pressure. Submersion shouldn't be an issue because the system already needs to be sealed - the pressure would cause a leak if it wasn't already sealed, and in fact flooding would reduce the probability of a leak by reducing the pressure differential.

If you keep sufficient water (up to the weight of the fuel) at the location where it's needed, the entire system needn't need a pump at all when called into action, just a tap - gravity would be sufficient. This is presuming that the fuel is kept at basement level for safety purposes, of course, otherwise you could just keep the fuel where you're storing the water. You can get by with less water and active pumping, since hydraulics are easy to turn into gearing (force multiplication) effects.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> There's pretty much two ways to deal with this. Either admit this is a low probability failure scenario and it isn't cost effective to have global redundancies. The outage will be resolved as soon as possible. Or, admit you failed to build a georedundant HA infrastructure and apologize with a tentative plan to build out a redundant infrastructure in a different catastrophe zone.

 _move_ the servers? On what planet is server infrastructure movable on a whim?

<comment><USER19> It is movable. It would take a few days. We have another DC. We wouldn't say that if we knew it wasn't doable.

 _EDIT:_ Just because it's feasible doesn't mean we will actually do it; just wanted to clarify that we weren't firing from the hip.

<comment><USER20> Wow you expect fog creek to be down for that long when it does? Why can't you just scp everything on there to your other DC? or at least just move the harddrives? Seems like it would cost less time.

<comment><USER19> Kiln alone has >4 TB of data; you want to SCP that with 90 minutes heads-up?

Having power and/or rack space is not the same as having servers, switches, etc. anyway.

Hopefully it will not be down that long. We'll let you know more when we know more.

<comment><USER21> Do you guys do off-site backups?

<comment><USER22> Yes we do. Unfortunately, that's all they are -- data backups, sans infrastructure.

<comment><USER21> Sure, but that invalidates the complaint of it being infeasible to scp out 4 TB of data before your NYC DC runs out of power. Those 4 TB of data are already out of NYC, safely in some other DC where you have hardware. You just need new servers/VMs in/near that DC to restore the backups to.

I'm not trying to 2nd guess your ops team, but the whole point in having off- site backups is to facilitate a your RTO plan in case you lose your primary DC with no warning. I guess I'd be surprised if you don't have a < 24 hour RTO plan in place. With how quickly you can get VMs and even dedicated server provisioned by many hosting providers (minutes to a couple hours), the idea of physically moving servers off-site into a new racks, with new networking, etc... seems kinda nutty...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> So a couple of things:

1) Like any prepared person, I got all my data out of the east coast before this whole hurricane thing. If someone from Fog Creek hooked me up with some emergency licenses while they got their stuff sorted out, we'd be fine. Actually, this would be a good time to switch to self-hosted.

2) Second, while I was doing our hurricane prep, I ran into this blog post from Joel:

> Copies of the database backups are maintained in both cities, and each city > serves as a warm backup for the other. If the New York data center goes > completely south, we'll wait a while to make sure it's not coming back up, > and then we'll start changing the DNS records and start bringing up our > customers on the warm backup in Los Angeles. It's not an instantaneous > failover, since customers will have to wait for two things: we'll have to > decide that a data center is really gone, not just temporarily offline, and > they'll have to wait up to 15 minutes for the DNS changes to propagate. > Still, this is for the once-in-a-lifetime case of an entire data center > blowing up

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lHEK939...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lHEK939AKiEJ:www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/07/09.html+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari)

Obviously this was written in 2007, but they claim to be geographically redundant and have geographic backups that are "never more than 15 minutes behind". Presumably things haven't deteriorated since then.

<comment><USER24> "and they'll have to wait up to 15 minutes for the DNS changes to propagate"

Not sure I see the need for a propagation delay if customers can be pointed to the new site by simply using domainbackup.com instead of domain.com (in other words completely separate dns as well as a completely different domain (even through a completely separate registrar) to a site hosted elsewhere. They can know this in advance of course.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm kind of an optimist; I believe it'll only be a matter of hours total outage. The generator is fine, the equipment is fine, the internet connectivity is fine... the only problem is getting fuel up to the generator on the 17th floor, while the fuel pumps in the basement are submerged. Someone will carry it up 17 flights if need be.

<comment><USER25> They've since completely evacuated the building, no?

<comment><USER22> The datacenter is in Zone A, which did receive the mandatory evacuation order from the city, but we have a few people from Fog Creek onsite or nearby right now and there is at least one person from PEER 1 there right now. Roads to the area are open, life is returning.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> We are beginning to bring down all Fog Creek services (FogBugz, Kiln, Trello, etc.) as our datacenter is shutting down.

fogcreekstatus.typepad.com and @fogcreekstatus on twitter will continue to have updates.

edit: All Fog Creek services have been shut down ahead of power failure. We'll update the status blog as we know more from our DC.

</comment><comment><USER27> I'm assuming their servers are in LGA11, according to Internap the basement has flooded and damaged the fuel pumps for the generators. They also said in an earlier email they have no staff on site and are urging all customers to shut down their servers.

Edit: here are the emails I've received from Internap regarding LGA11 <https://gist.github.com/3980482>

<comment><USER28> Cut long lines to make it more readable. <https://gist.github.com/3980570>

<comment><USER29> > For our cloud customers, we will also being shutting down the infrastructure > at this time.

That bit made me chuckle.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> "Given the preparation work that's gone into this, we are confident that all of our services will remain available to our customers throughout the weather." - yesterdays update.

Try not to let your fingers type cheques your datacenters can't cash...!

<comment><USER31> Nobody was really expecting this much of Manhattan to lose power.

<comment><USER32> It's pretty amusing to see you posting this when a couple days ago, you were accusing the media of "blowing it out of proportion". Oh hey, it turns out they were right.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4706959>

<comment><USER31> I never use the words that you "quoted". I said "superstorm" was a stupid term. It's a hurricane. Use a well-defined word when it's available.

(The hurricane was also predicted to weaken to a tropical storm before landfall at the time I wrote that.)

<comment><USER33> Earlier yesterday it wasn't a hurricane though. And shortly after landfall it was no longer a hurricane again - even before it weakened. (cold core => post- tropical cyclone?)

I think using a general catch-all that was not a narrowly-defined technical term that didn't/wouldn't universally apply was actually a prudent and defensible thing. Given their goal of collecting all the concerns of all the stages of the storm under one umbrella.

Even if their motivation _was_ just stupid news branding/sensationalism.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> As a newish customer of Fogbugz, I'm disappointed.

This storm had days, if not a week, of head's up. While I agree "no one expected Manhattan to lose power" (another comment), as someone who heads up development of a SaaS product, I would have spent most of that week planning for worst cases and recovery. I constantly think about the worst case scenarios and how long they'll take to recover, even without huge storms bearing down on the data center.

So, I'm disappointed. I really love the Fogbugz and Trello products. Now I'm in a position where I have to question whether we should depend on them.

<comment><USER9> So, you agree that no one expected Manhattan to lose power. No one expected that in 2003 during the blackouts, either. And in that case, Peer1 was able to keep the servers running without disruption.

This was a monster of a storm, with unprecedented water levels. Buoys around New York reported waves 5 times higher than anything on record.

So consider it this way: would you rather the services be significantly more expensive (remember, doubling the hardware is the _cheap_ part of it) or have the possibility of a few hours of downtime in a once in 100 years event?

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Submerged fuel pumps are the same problem that Internap are experiencing. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4715889>

<comment><USER36> Fog Creek's services are hosted at Internap's LGA11 (75 Broad St) data center.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Seems their previous post[0] from last night showed a bit of overconfidence?

"Consider this the "Everything is Perfectly Fine Alarm."

Having run a few HA Datacenters I don't think that level of confidence is ever warranted.

[0] [http://status.fogcreek.com/2012/10/feelin-fine-no- expected-d...](http://status.fogcreek.com/2012/10/feelin-fine-no-expected- downtime-due-to-hurricane-sandy.html)

</comment><comment><USER38> What's a little surprising to me is that as of now www.fogcreek.com returns nothing but an error message. Presumably they have control of their DNS, and could quickly throw something -- even a simple web page with a status message -- on a server at some other datacenter.

</comment><comment><USER39> This is a good reminder that no system is immune to failure, cloud or otherwise. Georedundancy is expensive and difficult, so it's a delicate trade- off, but engineering good physical backup systems is also difficult.

Our servers are in a state far away from hurricanes, but in a state with many other natural disasters, including tornadoes, so it's hard to say if it's a good trade or not. Interesting question: why aren't there more DCs in Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, or New Mexico? And is physical location a huge determinant in where you colo your servers?

<comment><USER40> I know that Arizona is a huge place for DCs just because there aren't any natural disasters there.

There are a few of them out here in Utah that I know of, but none at the scale that they really could be. It would make a lot of sense to put some out here, I would think

<comment><USER41> I guess one of the most famous DCs in Utah is the NSA one: <http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> Well, good luck to them, both personally and in bringing it back soon.

I only wish Trello hadn't tried to reload on its own, so I could still see the screen before the shutdown. Now all I have is a blank page :(

<comment><USER43> I've managed to successfully failover to our own emergency backup version: <https://twitter.com/williamlannen/status/263294924382937090>

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> And we're back! All Fog Creek services are back on line. Our datacenter has enough fuel for several hours and is working on getting a delivery of more. We are hoping that Kiln, FogBugz, Trello, and all our services will remain up, though things are still a bit dicey.

The details are all here: [http://status.fogcreek.com/2012/10/fog-creek- services-update...](http://status.fogcreek.com/2012/10/fog-creek-services- updates.html)

Thanks everyone for your patience!

</comment><comment><USER44> I initially read that as Fog Creek the company was soon to be going out of business.

</comment><comment><USER45> "When the tide goes out, you find out who is swimming naked." Warren Buffett said it in reference to economic problems, but somehow it applies...

</comment><comment><USER46> Latest tweet from PEER1, Fog Creek's datacenter.

Storm #Sandy highlights value of #cloud storage [http://www.peer1hosting.co.uk/industry-news/us-storm- highlig...](http://www.peer1hosting.co.uk/industry-news/us-storm-highlights- value-cloud-)

<https://twitter.com/PEER1/status/263197209959493632>

</comment><comment><USER47> Why would loss of power cause "unrecoverable data corruption"? Don't modern databases work hard prevent this sort of thing?

<comment><USER48> They use SQL server for StackOverflow, FogBugz and Kiln. But for Trello they use only MongoDB.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> What about Trello, is that implied as well?

<comment><USER50> Trello is now down. We're simultaneously working on migrating to AWS, as well as physically moving the hardware as mentioned above.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> I guess "The Cloud" got rained on in this case.

</comment><comment><USER52> Wow, that kind of sucks for them. I hope they consider prioritizing some kind of geographic replication after the storm is done. It adds cost and complexity (which slows down development, too), but seems like a good tradeoff when you have customers depending on it.

The geographic load balancing side is basically a solved problem (although you don't want to use only DNS-based load balancing like Route53 in most cases), but the hard part is wide area replication of databases for hot failover.

It's pretty easy to do failover if you'll accept a 5-10 minute outage, though.

</comment><comment><USER53> Reminds me of NASDAQ's post from over a year ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2928519>

Good luck FogCreek.

</comment><comment><USER54> Let me join in the chorus of people that are slightly miffed that I don't have access to my Trello boards. In a way it highlights again the importance of local storage and off-line accessibility for web-apps. I just checked and in the trello app on my nexus 7 I can still see (and browse) all my boards for example (the only problem is that the content is a few days old as I have not used the app recently)

</comment><comment><USER55> Can someone explain to me how someone like Fog Creek would let an app like Trello go dark. Dont their carefully selected and perfectly screened engineers get paid gobs of money to prevent exactly this scenario from happening by having data centers in other locations replicate the one you have in your own house.

<comment><USER56> Last time I checked, Trello was a free app...

<comment><USER57> Because, per Spolsky, Fog Creek wants to achieve a widespread adoption first before they start charging for it (with probably a free tier remaining). Other than that, Trello is very much a commercial app.

Fogbugz IS a commercial app, and at $25/mo (if I remember right) it's in the same category as most other commercial apps, i.e. it's not particularly cheap. It's still down.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> I keep hearing that this is the worst natural disaster that people (who are currently alive) have ever seen in NYC.

It's a bummer that their sites are down... but I think I can go a day without my to-do list when they have a once-in-a-lifetime natural disaster.

For perspective, it's not like they have down-time once every few months.

</comment><comment><USER59> Unfortunately smaller Peer 1 companies like mine were told that power was going to be shut and we therefore brought down our servers.

We're still down. I'm happy for FogCreek, and I'm generally happy with Peer 1, but I wish they would have been honest with everyone in this situation.

<comment><USER60> The issue is communication between the boots on the ground and the NOC. Earlier today, we brought our servers down too. People that stayed up (squarespace) have been up the whole time. Until I understood the whole situation, we made the same choice you did. Now that I know more and I spent the day at the DC, I realized we should get 1-2hr warning before power goes out. Peer1 _should_ be running even after all fuel in the header (shared tank) on 17 runs dry... at least for a little bit. I can't guarantee it, but that's my take on the facts I have at hand (I am President of Fog Creek and spent the day at Peer1 and our office. They are currently using my aquarium pumps to try to pump diesel to the tank on the 17th floor).

<comment><USER59> Thanks for your assessment. I actually chose Peer 1 because of the recommendation from FogCreek and I'll still thank you even after this incident.

I think it's ironic, that Peer 1 is getting accolades from Business Insider's squarespace article, while their misinforming email has hurt my firm and the small companies that use our software.

I won't hold my breath for an apology email. That's life in the big city.

<comment><USER59> It's 7:30pm in NYC and after a few persistent support requests, we're back up.

Thanks to Michael and Joel for sharing their information and assessments with all of us.

And now that we're up, thanks to Peer 1 for doing their best in a trying situation.

<comment><USER60> Send me an email at my name at my company and I'll keep you updated with what I know.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> Curious: What kind architecture shows a 503 error when your servers are dead (like they are currently doing), but can't show an error status page? Presumably that server is not in the dead datacenter.

Or is it just that something at the datacenter level is redundant?

<comment><USER26> We've shut down all of our servers to protect data, except some of the outermost infrastructure and gateways. That 503 is coming from HAProxy, our load balancer -- it's unable to send your traffic to any of the (powered-down) servers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> Does anyone else find it funny to think of the internet running on diesel?

<comment><USER63> You might be surprised to know how much is normally running on petroleum: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_New_Y...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_New_York#Petroleum)

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> No redundancy what-so-ever? What an amateur operation. I still say Joel is a fraud.

EDIT: this site is amazing - divergent opinions seem to be actively discouraged given how many "points" I've lost thanks to stating mine. Is the point of this site for all of the members to think in the same way?

<comment><USER20> Ofcourse they have redundancy, just not cross-datacenter redundancy. And if you knew anything about cross-datacenter redundancy you'd know that cross- datacenter redundancy is something you do not decide upon lightly.

Then again, having cross-datacenter backups that can easily be taken online would be a bit more professional than 'we want to physically move the servers'.

<comment><USER64> Are you kidding me? If you run big sites like FogBugz then _ofcourse_ you have cross-datacenter redundancy. It's not complicated to host your staging site in another physical location and point the DNS records to it when things go pear- shaped.

<comment><USER20> Yes, so this staging site of you has exactly the same databases as your production site? Without customer data Fogbugz and Trello are useless. This means that this simple staging site of yours needs to have all data replicated to it, which means it also needs the same hardware provisioned for it, effectively doubling your physical costs, your maintenance cost and reducing the simplicity of your architecture. Ofcourse, if you're big enough you can afford to do this, and one could argue fogcreek is big enough. I'm just saying it's not a simple no-brainer.

What is a simple no-brainer how ever is to have offline offsite backups that can easily brought online. A best practice is to have your deployment automated in such a way that deployment to a new datacenter that already has your data should be a trivial thing.

But yeah, if you're running a tight ship something things like that go overboard without anyone noticing.

Remember the story of the 100% uptime banking software, that ran for years without ever going down, always applying the patches at runtime. Then one day a patch finally came in that required a reboot, and it was discovered that in all the years of runtime patches without reboots, it was never tested if the machine could actually still boot, and ofcourse it couldn't :)

<comment><USER64> Data should be backed up to staging nightly _anyway_. There should also be scripts in place to start this process at an arbitrary point in time and to import the data into the staging server. You do _not_ need to match the hardware if you use cloud hosting since you can scale up whenever you want.

Here's where it gets really simple. Resize the staging instance to match live. Put live into maintenance mode and begin the data transfer to staging (with a lot of cloud providers, step #1 and #2 can be done in parallel). As soon as it finishes copying, take live down, point the DNS records at staging and wait for a few minutes. Staging is now live, with all of live's data. Problem solved. Total downtime: hardly anything compared to not being prepared. Total dataloss: none.

<comment><USER20> I fully agree that this is how it could, and perhaps should be done. But you assume they are already on cloud hosting, which they obviously aren't. Ofcourse this is also a choice that has to be made consciously. Especially since fogcreek has been around a lot longer than the big cloud providers.

You can look to Amazon to see that cloud architecture brings with it hidden complexity that also increases risk of downtime while you relinguish a lot of control on for example the latency and bandwidth between your nodes.

What I don't know by the way, is wether the total cost of ownership is larger for colocation or for cloud hosting.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What to do when you have hit the salary ceiling? - <AUTHOR>

Hi, need a bit of advice here. I am a software professional with 8 years experience. I am in Europe.
I am truly a full stack developer meaning I can code in java, javascript, Python, Erlang and I am learning scala and GO. I know distributed systems very well. Maintain heavily loaded cassandra and hadoop systems on a daily basis. I setup continuous delivery for my company and I do all things devops starting from chef code to automating out 400 node AWS cluster which changes dynamically.
I can learn anything in no time. I have been a late bloomer meaning I slacked off for quite sometime. Joined a startup and rediscovered the love for technology. used Linux for the first time and now I help people in my company with all things linux. I am a computer science graduate from a very reputed university. My basics are clear, so learning something is really never hard for me.
All the above in the last 3 years.
Now here is the dilemma: I have hit the salary ceiling. I make good money but it's just impossible here to make more money as an employee. Startup in Europe don't pay much and for we don't have the US culture where better gets paid more.
What do I do? I want to make more money. I can bring a lot on the table for a company if they pay me. I don't want to just settle for whatever I get paid. I want to learn more, work more and get paid more.
I am not the startup kind of person. I just don't have it in me. However, I can join someone else's idea. But I can't go for low pay and equity. I need more salary. <comment><USER2> The quickest thing to do would be go work for a company in the Bay Area.

You can do this from Europe without too much trouble, since a lot of good companies are waking up to the idea of remote teams. I, for instance, split my time between France and England, work for a company in the US, and bill out at a rate that would make sense were I fighting to live in the San Francisco housing market.

The second option, which you can also do without leaving home, is to start your own software product company. You'll start out with a huge salary cut (to zero), which you can hopefully mitigate by doing your buildout during nights and weekends while keeping your current gig. But the upside is unlimited.

</comment><comment><USER3> I think your ceiling here is made more of glass than concrete. Look for new opportunities outside of your current employer. If your skill set is truly as strong what you think it is, you can even find US companies that will hire you to either work remotely or come work here.

If you've truly hit the salary ceiling, you should consider other pursuits in life that don't involve making more money. You're already making more than enough.

The answer, at least in the US, is "if you can't make more where you are, leave."

</comment><comment><USER4> Why have you hit a salary ceiling? Is this because you work at a small company and you literally earn the most of the engineers around there? If so, you can move to a much larger successful company (their pay ladder will scale quite a bit higher). Or you can stay at the small company, by offering to have a higher impact. That's the nice thing with small companies: you can actually make a difference (and pocket the difference). Is there anything you do that contributes to the company actually making money? If so, do more of it.

In any case, developers are usually better considered (ie., higher pay) at software companies [exception: banking]. Make sure you work for one (kelukelugames suggested Microsoft). Don't be a cost center.

</comment><comment><USER5> Consider contracting (in addition to) your day job. My day job reached peak salary 2 years ago(160-ish as an engineer), and I started taking on remote contract work for larger IT companies(eg VMware and Cisco, not John Doe's Lawn Service). My contract earnings soon eclipsed my salary by double, and eventually triple. The rest is history as they say... I wish I had done this years ago.

TLDR; If you want money above all else, work for yourself, and contract out to companies that have deep pockets. With your skill set, you shouldn't have much trouble getting in the door.

<comment><USER6> How did you get in touch with these larger IT companies?

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> If you've hit a salary cap at startups, and care that much about salary, it's time to leave startups.

Generally, startups leverage enthusiasm and equity opportunity in order to pay less for their talent. Meanwhile, big boring multinationals pay ridiculous salaries in order to fulfill all the dull but critical needs of themselves and their clients. And there's a whole continuum in between.

If you do like startups and want to stay around, start negotiating for the perks that won't hurt their burn rate so much: equity, time off, R&D opportunities, etc.

</comment><comment><USER8> You could try join a proven startup like DropBox or AirBNB etc. They should be able to give you a good salary and equity and there is still scope for it to go up.

Or you can foray into sales, or CTO role at your smallco. Then as a director negotiate shares.

However sounds like you'd be good as a technical cofounder. You said "I can learn anything in no time" and it sounds like you are ambitious.

You could also launch a lifestyle business like many on HN have done, which can slowly grow to beyond what a dev could earn in a job.

</comment><comment><USER9> Move to London and start contracting, established companies have deep pockets (ex. 600 pounds per day for a right skill set) while the projects can still be very technically challenging.

</comment><comment><USER10> Microsoft Europe has a salary cap?</comment>


Chrome Safe Browsing Blocks Piratebay as Harmful - <AUTHOR> https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/ <comment><USER2> In Firefox:

"Reported Unwanted Software Page!

This web page at thepiratebay.org has been reported to contain unwanted software and has been blocked based on your security preferences.

Unwanted software pages try to install software that can be deceptive and affect your system in unexpected ways."

Maybe I do want the software .....</comment>


Google Meet is free. Here's how to master its most useful features - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/how-to-use-google-meet <comment><USER2> Requiring people to have a Google account or similar is probably the primary reason why competitors such as Zoom had any chance to begin with. They can call it a security feature as much as they like, though I suspect "loss leader" is more correct. But for business use, it means Google Meet is a no go. We simply can not require customers to have this or that account before they can join a video conference.

<comment><AUTHOR> Whether it's Google Meet or Zoom, for a host, you need to sign up. For a participant, you don't need to. Correct me if I am wrong.</comment></comment>