Why I'm Using a Flip Phone - <AUTHOR> https://pam-moore.com/2018/07/25/why-im-using-a-flip-phone/ <comment><USER2> Life with a smart phone is so much better than life before a smart phone. It's hard to realise how recently they came around. I've probably only had the internet on my phone for five years (I've had a smart phone for longer, but I couldn't get the data to work and data was expensive enough at the time I didn't care).

I can communicate with my fiancee even when she's in another country (international sms = fail). I can have a fiancee who's in another country. When I'm on the train I can do something meaningful to me. When I'm not on the train, I can know when it's actually going to arrive so I can do something fun instead of waiting on the platform. If I'm having a discussion with friends I can call up the information I'm missing. I can listen to music and podcasts while I go for a walk or a ride. I can plan my trips instead of listening to the boring parts of conversations. I can take nice photos when I didn't expect it.

I'm not going back to life without a phone. If you're not valuing your priorities with a phone, you won't value them without it. It might make a difference for a few weeks, but then you'll work out how to waste your time without your phone and you'll be back to square one.

<comment><USER3> I'm not a Luddite by any stretch and I've had smart phones since they were quite dumb, but your reasons don't ring for me:

> I can communicate with my fiancee even when she's in another country > (international sms = fail).

It facilitates _instant_ communications. Email across the planet has been around since day one.

> I can have a fiancee who's in another country.

I can assure you this was possible pre-smart phone.

> When I'm on the train I can do something meaningful to me.

The counter point to this is millions of man years wasted streaming mind numbing video.

> When I'm not on the train, I can know when it's actually going to arrive so > I can do something fun instead of waiting on the platform.

Mass transit has had posted schedules for many years. It is nice to see an updated one with up to the minute tracking but it wasn't _that_ inconvenient either.

> If I'm having a discussion with friends I can call up the information I'm > missing.

I'm probably showing my age but I miss having a pointless yet heated argument that couldn't be settled in 15 seconds on a smart phone. The feeling of being right when you finally do get to confirm the answer is worth so much more.

> I can listen to music and podcasts while I go for a walk or a ride.

You don't need internet for that, just some planning to have the content downloaded in advance.

> I can plan my trips instead of listening to the boring parts of > conversations.

If you're describing zoning out of the real world people around you to doodle on your phone that's sad.

> I can take nice photos when I didn't expect it.

Okay this one I agree. The best camera is the one you actually have. Counterpoint is we're approaching peak photo.

<comment><USER4> >millions of man years wasted streaming mind numbing video.

..millions of man years wasted waiting.

>zoning out of the real world people around you to doodle on your phone that's sad.

..humoring pointless gossip so people will like you, that's sad.

My point is that these seem very subjective and judgmental.

<comment><USER5> I mean there were books before there were phones. The point is that phones have added little value.

<comment><USER6> > The point is that phones have added little value.

... to you.

My phone doesn't always have to be solving a problem or completing a task. The other day I was waiting for something and happened to look up the weather. I ended up going down a rabbit hole and re-discovering [https://earth.nullschool.net](https://earth.nullschool.net) \- it was fascinating! It enriched my life, to no particular end. That sort of stuff happens all the time and immensely valuable to me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I don't have a phone. _At all._ Whenever government things or banks ask me for a phone number, I just say none. Persistent computer forms that won't take no for an answer are fed the phone number of the company that is asking for a phone.

Most people find this utterly unthinkable and seem to project their anxiety of not having a phone on to me. What about emergencies? How do you do this? How do you do that? What if this happens?

Truth is, most of those things don't happen and I get along just fine. I talk to people in my life via email or in person. I use videochat on my laptop to talk to people if we need a more intimate and immediate communication than email. I schedule things ahead of time and request that others please do their best to keep to that scheduled appointment. I'm ready to handle a few minutes of uncertainty if they're slightly late or be outright stood up in the case of genuine emergencies. Or I just tell people that I'll be available whenever and that they can come at their convenience between this hour and that hour.

I like my life this way. It's not bad. It's pretty okay.

<comment><USER8> Do you have any family? My parents live in a different country, a phone is a particularly good way of keeping in touch. Ever been ill? How do you get in touch with your GP? Ever had an accident, or witnessed an accident? Ever been a victim of bank fraud, or had to contact the police? I can understand dodging a smartphone, but a phone (cell or landline) of some sort is pretty much a requirement these days.

<comment><USER7> I email my family and schedule videochat.

I don't have a GP. If I'm ill, I just go to a walk-in clinic. I can also schedule appointments online. When I was too sick to go out at all and due to a particular situation I didn't have web access either, I asked a neighbour to make a phone call for me. I live in a city where I can rely on the help of others.

For some official business, I use the landline at work to talk to banks or government. Most of the time I can use the web, though.

It is not a requirement for me to have a personal phone.

<comment><USER8> As youve mentioned in your post, you rely on other people having a personal phone so that you don't need to carry one.

Regarding the GP, this is presumably dependent on the country you live in. In the UK you have a specific clinic you sign up with. None of the 4 clinics I've used have taken walk in appointments, all have required phoning that morning to get a scheduled appointment that day.

<comment><USER9> Reminds me of all my friends who proudly didn't own cars in college.

But whenever we went somewhere they suddenly needed a ride.

<comment><USER7> There's no shame in relying on the help of others and there's no hypocrisy either. I'm prepared to being unable to get a neighbour to let me use a phone. I can accept that. If I'm able to get help, that's great, and if not that's also something I can accept. I have only done this once ever, anyway. Such a rare occasion does not outweigh the happiness and peace of mind that I get by being without a phone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I obliterated one of my smartphones last year after dropping it on concrete while getting off the bus. I freaked out, had no clue what to do since I was low income and couldn't afford anything for quite awhile.

For a few days it was like I was an addict, constantly feeling my back pocket vibrating, constantly reaching to check my phone. After a few more days, I felt very liberated. I felt very free. I started enjoying life more. I started noticing how much the world (at least USA) depends on their phones for everything. I would go out to Reddit meetups without my phone and notice times where everyone would have their heads down, checking various social media platforms and not talking to each other. People would ask how I lived without a phone. I noticed how dangerous the distraction is with people doing simple things like walking crosswalks with their heads down staring at their phones. I noticed a lot of the time the entire bus full of people were looking down at their phones, most doing nothing of any real meaning.

After a week or so I learned how to cope without. I would look up directions and bus routes on my computer before I left. I would check my bank account before I left to do anything that cost money. I brought a notebook with me to keep notes of things I thought about and wanted to look further into when I got home. I noticed new things I've never noticed and learned more about the city I live in, especially the streets and landmarks so I could get around without GPS. It noticeably helped my anxiety and gave me a viewpoint of the world that I feel I hadn't been a part of since the first iPhone was released.

I'm not saying smartphones aren't useful, but I strongly recommend to anyone to take a break from their phone. It really is eye opening in very beneficial ways.

<comment><USER11> My first question to anyone who says they can live without a smartphone: what do you use for two factor auth?

<comment><USER12> Is two factor authentication something you can't live without, then?

<comment><USER11> I wouldn't be able to do my job or access my bank without it, so I'd say yes, I can't live without it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Dumbphone user since 2006 here. Non-Luddite. Main reasons for avoiding the switch :

1) When not using computers for work [or chess] purposes, I want to spend as little time as practical staring at a screen. I have lots of non-computer activities to attend to [gardening, studying, home maintenance, etc etc] and a family to look after.

2) I am a strong adherent to the notion that one is well-advised to maintain awareness of one's surroundings -- what I'd call commonsense alertness -- and my observations of folks using smartphones in public suggest to me that their use diminishes situational awareness because they are a distraction.

2.5) Corollary to the above : I want to set a good example of prudent behavior for my kids, which to me includes limiting recreational computer / phone use [I realize this sounds snobby, but you should see the kids in my neighborhood -- like elementary-school kids -- constantly with their faces buried in phone];

3) Last and also least : expense and durability : decent dumbphones are nearly indestructible and if I distruct one, a replacement is less than $50. Smartphones, on the other hand, tend to be fragile and expensive.

<comment><USER14> You're in a gloomy waiting room. You arrived early, so could be waiting awhile. Nothing to read except a few old Vogue magazines. You're by yourself, you didn't bring a book. Your inventory is a wallet, keys, and flip phone. What is your next move?

<comment><USER15> I would say that your example scenario isn't necessarily an argument for having a smartphone, it is a reason to always have a Kindle with you that contains a few hundred books. (You can leave the Kindle in airplane mode at all times and get everything you want to read from pirated ebook websites, no need to deal with Amazon's ecosystem and DRM).

<comment><USER14> "Never leave home without my flip-phone and kindle" said nobody ever. Your smartphone might have the kindle app or e-reader app or something. You can put it on flight mode, and enjoy.

<comment><USER15> > "Never leave home without my flip-phone and kindle" said nobody ever.

You ought to get out more. Carrying around a Kindle and leaving the phone behind (or, perhaps, getting a dumbphone), so that you are forced to consume more "serious" content during waiting times and to avoid social media, is recommended fairly often on these kind of threads.

> Your smartphone might have the kindle app or e-reader app or something.

The reason for the Kindle's popularity in its niche is the e-ink screen. Some people may find reading ebooks on their phone to be acceptable, while others find the more limited dimensions and LCD glare and brightness of a smartphone to be annoying.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I feel like I've seen a number of these kind of posts pop up recently. It reminds me of 10 to 15 years ago when there was article after article about people getting rid of their TVs, and how liberated they felt. Both topics always feel like a mix of genuine feeling mixed with a bit of validation seeking. I don't know, I guess I've never found either argument particularly compelling.

<comment><USER17> > validation seeking

I agree. I feel the same way when people talk about quitting Facebook. No one really needs to know.

FWIW, I got a basic phone because I was tired of having to charge my smart phone every day. It's nice having a phone that will hold its charge for several days.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Long-time lurker of HN. Finally made an account just to chime in on this.

Most people who disagree with people using "dumbphones" or not having a phone at all seem to say it is entirely an issue with the person's self control. Do we completely blame people for getting addicted to caffeine or cigarettes? No, at least I would not think so. We all understand that those two things are addictive in nature. Why would a smartphone with all the fancy UX, apps, and ease-of-access be different? If a smartphone is geared to be exploit one's attention span and is just as addictive then why put all the blame on people's lack of self control? Sometimes it is easier to go cold turkey much like people do with quitting caffeine and cigarettes.

</comment><comment><USER19> I've got a Windows phone, and sometimes I feel like the gradual decay of its ecosystem is a blessing in disguise. Since app support is spotty, I'm relegated to sticking to the core features only (Edge, maps, music player, texting, camera, Office), which are good enough for most of my needs. (At least for however long until Edge falls behind the other browsers, or maps/traffic gets shuttered, or...) It's already distracting enough with a browser.. it'd be worse with more game support.. :)

<comment><USER20> That's precisely the reason I stick with Windows Phone as well. Even with a flagship-level phone Windows Phone is super slow, so, on top of what you mention, it makes me _not_ want to use it as much.

Being so limited is rather freeing.

<comment><USER21> > Even with a flagship-level phone Windows Phone is super slow

This hasn't been my experience at all. I have the absolute bargain basement Lumia 640 as a backup phone and it feels positively snappy. Perhaps it's because I have barely anything running on there?

<comment><USER20> My Lumia 640 actually feels snappier than my Lumia 950 in some ways. I dont understand that, its been the same with all of the Lumia 950s I've used. The 950 has a nice camera though, and that display is great reading books.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Why I'm Using a Smart Phone

I've thought about this, but I've realized it's not the phone but specific websites/apps that can be time-consuming addictions. I have no social media accounts on my phone, so that seems to prevent a lot of the issues. I do like browsing news sites, but there's only so many times I can see the same story before I get sick of it. I do hate some of the privacy issues that come with a smart phone (certain apps I can't get rid of, I can't change to LineageOS with this phone, etc.)

However, I use the phone for learning a new language while on the bus/train. I also like getting email alerts about the bus/train (accidents, etc). My bus carrier tells you instantly where the bus is, so I can walk to another bus line if the next one is delayed. Podcasts on the phone are also great. I could do all those things with a data plan and laptop, but it's much too big. I don't actually _need_ any of those things but they are a huge convenience for a long commute.

I try to be mindful of my phone use when out with friends. I like the fact that I don't know what's been going on in their lives via social media so then we can catch up.

<comment><USER23> >Why I'm Using a Smart Phone

Similar usage:

\- I listen to podcasts at 2x and audible titles at 1.5x all day at work and during my commute. 50-60 hours a week.

\- I can talk to friends on 4 continents

\- TerraGenesis throughout the day when I have a minute or three of downtime but not enough time to read a chapter.

\- I don't have to get a map out of the trunk when I need to find my way somewhere, but carry the map in the event shit goes sideways.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I'm mystified by the number of people who think that they've solved the fundamental problem by getting rid of their phone: being that unable to control one's immediate impulses, is worthy of attention.

<comment><USER25> Almost everybody has impulses they can't control; the rational response is to plan ahead of time to limit the damage they do.

<comment><USER26> As a child, sure. That's part and parcel of growing up. But I would expect healthy adults to be able to control their impulses when it comes to things like wasting time on their phone. If someone genuinely can't, they're in trouble, and tossing the phone aside is treating the symptom at best.

<comment><USER27> Impulse control is really hard. But more importantly, it's a losing battle, even for adults, if you use many popular services today. The reason is simple. Most of these services have highly paid and intelligent folks, whose sole purpose is to use the unprecedented private data they have on you, to hack into deep biological impulses embedded in every human built over millennia, to have you use their service more.

Its frankly not possible and anyone who believes otherwise is likely fooling themselves.

<comment><USER24> Possible. Not fooling myself. And the ad tech industry doesn't have the technology to control your mind, or steal your soul. Their efforts remain overwhelmingly wasteful and ineffective.

I would reiterate my recommendation of investigating why you feel such lack of self-control.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I don't see why you can't just control your cell phone habits. Swearing technology off is like cutting off the nose to spite the face.

The optimal setup for me is the basic apps installed (mail, messenger, uber/lyft, finances) with all notifications turned off. Less distraction while retaining the utility of having a smartphone.

<comment><USER29> _I don 't see why you can't just control your drinking habits. Swearing alcohol off is like cutting off the nose to spite the face._

<comment><USER28> Alcohol does not provide the massive utility that comes with modern smartphones.

There are ways to reduce cell phone usage without going to a flip phone.

But, if this is what works for the author then I support it. Removing certain apps and disabling notifications will work wonders for most people though.

<comment><USER30> I think the analogy was meant to be a reflection on what "addiction" means

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I find it easier to just not install apps.

My wife and I have a rule - minimal phone use around one another. We hold each other to it, unless both of us agree to look something up. Perhaps it's because we both think it's rude, I don't know..

Now, although that works generally - my wife will often spend hours pouring over Instagram a week. She too, has mixed feelings about it and on the one hand wants to delete it, and on the other feels she needs it to connect to people. When discussing this with her (she wanted to talk about the struggle she was having), she realized everyone she was worried about leaving behind on Instagram were people we knew from high school - a decade ago.

As soon as she realized that, she deleted it. I think the fact that phones connected us across time and places, make it difficult to recognize we don't need it in many cases. The addiction comes from wanting to be included, but in reality - we're just segregating ourselves; behind the facade of happy photos. The truth we all know is that everyone on Instagram works for those shots, those happy moments, to share with... well, their collective of "friends". Many of whom they will never see again in their lifetimes.

For me, I only install functional apps on my phone, never user it for fun, and already have blocked all news sites outside of HN, Reddit, and a few other niche forums. I can access my investments, bank account(s), flash cards, w.e. - that I don't find addictive. If my phone died, I'd be frustrated (how do we decide who's picking up the kids), but I wouldn't go through withdrawal (I often leave it at home by accident).

Perhaps a healthy approach to the phone is looking at it as a tool, not as a way to be friends. Honestly, it's the social networking aspect of it, that's the issue for people. Life is meant to be fluid and limited - spend time where it counts, building deep relationships.

<comment><USER32> I'm in a similar position, since I only download libre apps unless it's for work or something, I realised after I got rid of my proprietary apps (Instagram being the main one) I didn't get as distracted and became miles more productive. While I have stuff like Telegram and Mastodon I either end up paying attention to a few notifications and moving on or just seeing so much content that I'm too lazy to go through and I feel like that's because neither feature algorithmic timelines, discover pages etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> funny thing, I forgot to bring my phone today, at first I was a bit "Oh Crap!" but I've realized :-

1) I don't actually need it for anything important and I'm super connected via computers for most of the day except when commuting

2) It is a security blanket that feels a bit odd to be without, but I did live most of my life without one

3) Now that I'm forced to look at my fellow train commuters I can see that everyone is looking down at their phones and I have to look at the scenery :)

<comment><USER34> Not sure if this is different based on the culture, but I feel like commuting on a train is the time when having a phone to keep your mind occupied might actually have some of its highest usefulness. In a lot of other social situations you can hope to strike up a conversation with someone you actually might interact with again instead of constantly staring at your phone, but when commuting, people just want to work or sleep or chat or otherwise just be left alone, and the one that tries to strike up a conversation with strangers ends up looking like a weirdo way too frequently, if not being outright bothersome to those around them trying to sleep or focus.

<comment><USER35> When I was a kid we used books for this. And I still do since I am to cheap to pay for data on my phone.

<comment><USER34> Books are obviously fine too! I was just trying to say the phone is handy here due to the inability to socialize, not that there aren't other things that you could do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I don't travel much, but when I do, having the ability to not give a flip about knowing directions ahead of time is mentally quite relaxing.

Anyone else remember the days of printing out map quest directions only to find that they were out of date or really really wrong?

Everything else that comes with a smart phone is an added bonus.

EDIT: As far as notification anxiety. I mean, there's a simple way to deal with that without handicapping yourself: Turn off notifications except for the most crucial items.

<comment><USER37> Printing out maps sucked. Usually the only way I could manage a long journey would be to stick a summary of the major routes somewhere where it could be glanced at safely, e.g. whilst stopped at traffic lights. I'd make it within a few miles of the destination then get lost and have to pull over to read the map. This was better than the alternative of having the traditional map- reading conversation* whilst driving, though.

I tried dedicated satnavs but they always seemed to be quite expensive, not always reliable and a bit of a hassle to keep updated. The iPhone 3G (inc. S) was OK but its GPS wasn't sensitive enough and it usually resorted to shouting out random directions when in a city centre. Later iOS devices seem better, as do Android phones even of the same era as the iPhone mentioned above. Google maps has been very good, though the reporting of my position to Google isn't something I care for.

* \- Which turn should I take at this junction? \- How am I supposed to know? \- You have the map. \- How should I know where we are on it? It doesn't make any sense! etc. etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> I had a similar feeling when I removed all social media apps and games from my smart phone.

Whenever there's a lull in activity (like waiting for a bus, at the doctor's office, etc) I used to mindlessly swipe and scroll away. Now I pay more attention to the physical world around me (the bus stop has a map, what kind of magazines does the doctor like, etc)

But I wonder if the author could get the same benefit by cancelling her mobile data plan.

<comment><USER39> See, I'm OK bringing a book or sketchbook to the doctors office. I'm also fine with mindlessly playing a game.

This sort of thing keeps me from getting irritated while waiting in a place like a doctor's office. It makes me a more agreeable person overall.

The bus stop isn't as bad - they have a schedule and are usually on-time. There is only so often I can stand to look at a bus stop map, after all. That novelty wears off after using buses as primary transportation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> 2 Key events in my life :

1\. Purchased an iPhone1 10 years ago - changed my career & life.

2 Purchased a Nokia 3310 1 month ago - suddenly, the physical world around me has expanded. I feel I just woke up after 10 years.

<comment><USER41>
      'physical world around me has expanded'

care to elaborate?

<comment><USER40> Taking a walk to the park without the iPhone takes longer, because you are forced to spend attention on everything but the phone. Distance = speed x time. If perceived time goes up; distances are greater. Ergo - world around you expands.

<comment><USER42> You can have a smart phone and not use it all the time. It's a matter of self control.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Sounds like the phone's not the problem. Just don't twitter, instagram, facebook, snapchat or whatever you do 24/7 and simply use it for its most useful features. Ditch every social app, delete your accounts. Maybe turn it off every day at a fixed time (quite a while before you're in the bathroom brushing your teeth). Leave it at home when you're going for a walk. It's not like there's nothing inbetween a flip-phone user and a hopeless smartphone addict.

<comment><USER44> > Just don't twitter, instagram, facebook, snapchat or whatever you do 24/7

The point is that choosing to not do these things is _hard_ for a lot of us. Getting rid of a smartphone is a decision you have to make once. Not using Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, Hacker News, and Reddit is a decision that you have to make tens to hundreds of times a day, every day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Anyone have tips on some good US flip phones that work with modern networks (4G)? In a perfect world, with GPS (but not required)?

<comment><USER46> Nokia 8110's back out.

<comment><USER47> From the few reviews I managed to find it seems like hot garbage. Shame, I had high hopes for it to be my daily driver. Looking into Punkt Phone and/or Light Phone 2

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> I'm using Nokia 108. It's small and light, the battery lasts 2 weeks (1 week if I listen to radio often), it's a phone. I don't worry if it falls and breaks (and it doesn't break easily, I washed it with my jeans once and it still works, just had to buy a new battery).

If I need internet access I have a tablet in my backpack, it's much more convenient to browse on a bigger screen and without worrying battery will drain and I won't be able to answer calls. The hurdle of taking the tablet out is enough to discourage constant checking for notifications, but when I need gps or have to wait for 30 minutes in a queue somewhere it's there.

</comment><comment><USER49> I ditched my smart phone in 2015 and went 2 years with a "dumb" phone that couldn't do anything other than SMS and calls. The first couple of months was a bit "hard", but after a while I did not miss a thing from my smart phone days.

That said, I did go back to a smart phone last summer. But something strange has happened. Apart from using the camera, and apps like Signal and a sudoku app, I use my smart phone more or less like I used my "dumb" phone. I hardly ever browse the web, check e-mail or anything like that. I pick it up if it rings, or I need to call someone. And the occasional photo and game of sudoku for my own enjoyment. I have no social media, I don't share the photos I take, I don't feel the need to stay connected.

And when I'm not on wifi, it's more or less a "dumb" phone with a camera. I don't use data traffic. Haven't for the year I've had a smart phone again, and I don't see the need to start using data traffic. If I have access to wifi, great, I can use Signal, if not, those who need to contact me has my number and can get in touch with me the old fashioned way.

<comment><USER50> I had the same dumb phone from 2007 until it fell apart in 2015. I got a smart phone, but didn't use it for anything other than dumb phone tasks. Sure, the screen and camera were much nicer, and I could browse the web, but it didn't seem alluring. I only needed to charge it about twice a week.

Having maps and GPS turned out to be more useful than I expected, but once I go somewhere once or twice, I don't use it to get to that place anymore. I thought Google Authenticator would be the killer app for me, but I use it so rarely, and I have KeePass do that now anyway. I've never gotten the point of social media, so I completely missed the bullet there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> I have read that women with children, whether working at a paid job or not, tend to be chronically short of sleep. They do studies and women with small kids talk about sleep the way starving people talk about food.

I piddle on my phone when I'm exhausted. They used to do studies and find that lots of TV watching correlated to being too exhausted after work to do anything else. I think checking nonsense online when tired is the new TV watching when tired. We often do that on our phone because it's super convenient.

Women also tend to be more at everyone's beck and call than men. So presumably the phone facilitates the access of people who expect her to be at their beck and call and she can't figure out how to ditch that expectation without ditching the phone.

I have arranged my life where this is no longer true. I just cannot relate to a lot of the articles complaining about what a burden their phone is. I fairly often read articles or comments about what a burden it is and the subtext I hear is "My phone is the leash that my social circle has on me and I can't not reply." That's an alien concept for me at this point.

</comment><comment><USER52> I'm doing this since 2016 and never looked back. Also I got rid of FB and Google and am far more focused now. It was easy for me because growing up in the 70/80ies I never became as addicted to it. Looking at my kids I have many regrets for being positive about technology while they grew up. As an engineer I felt it was normal to expose them to screens from an early age. If I could go back in time this is what I'd change and regret the most: exposing my kids to this shit.

If I look at younger people I hang out with it's sad to see some of them would have a panic attack if asked to leave home without their phone. It sounds totally crazy to them. They grew up with parents constantly reminding them to bring their phone, and they would have gotten into trouble any time they would forget the phone, run out of battery or be otherwise unreachable. It's panic passed down from (my) generation ...

</comment><comment><USER53> Smart phones are great but also a great source of distraction. It has taken me a lot of practice and discipline to not use it to zone out on various social media or political news.

</comment><comment><USER54> I've never really owned a smartphone before 2013, despite the first iphone being released in 2007

When I used to travel a lot a few years back, I went extremely low tech. I wanted to appreciate the beauty each city had to offer and nature as it was meant to be.

I didn't have a data plan and would just memorize maps at the hostel before I set off for an adventure.

To tell the time I would simply just look at the sun and shadows projected. I would know this after the first day since I would have some benchmarks there. The sun rises from east and to the west, but the amount it changes per hour depends on what hemisphere you are in. And the season too ?I believe?

Consequently, this is how I would determine where North, East, West, and South is. I would have a mental model in my head based on how many steps I took to know where I am on the map. I used mostly relative positioning and landmarks in densely populated cities to determine this.

I would carry a paper map with me though, in the event I got lost.

The only downside to having no smartphone is that nighttime navigation was extremely difficult. There was no sun to navigate, I couldn't use the northstar since the lights in the city were too bright to see it.

People think I'm joking when I use sun navigation but I am not. Looking up at the sun is actually sometimes faster to determine the time and direction then having to whip out your phone. This was true especially during flip phone times, but not so much because of how useful smartphones have gotten / smartwatches.

Historically using the sun to determine time was how it was always done since Ancient greek / Egyptian times with Sun Dials.

I also used to parasail too, sometimes on the lake I relied on sun navigation to determine where I was at, since whipping out a phone or looking at a compass is sometimes not reasonable at the time. Especailly when I have my hand on the rudder and the other on ?whatever rope controled the mast?

</comment><comment><USER55> I also use a flip phone but I never had a smartphone to compare it to (other than temporarily connecting a TracFone for GPS when I travel).

I walk a lot and see so many people with their head pinned to their phone, and I've almost been hit 3 times from people flying through stop signs while texting in the middle of the day. Anything that might be so addictive that you can't even drive without constantly checking your phone can't be good for you.

Really though, a flip phone works well. You end up using it as a phone, but they also support texting too which makes you capable of communicating with everyone else in a pretty normal way.

</comment><comment><USER56> 20+ years w/out watching TV, yet there is a TV right there on the family room for the occasional movie or soccer match.

No need to ditch a very useful device, need discipline to use it wisely.

<comment><USER57> I'm almost in the same area as you. I have a TV and I use it very sparingly. The difference with smartphones is that the smartphone's applications are engineered to be addictive, which is not the case of TV. There's another important difference between the two: you don't carry your TV all the time with you.

<comment><USER56> True in all accounts. I guess we need stronger discipline then :)

I am working it out with this approach: no social network apps, turned off all notifications (however the red dots over app icons bother me still), uninstalled email app (I do check it _on demand_ using the browser email app), airplane mode at night, off the pocket most of the weekend.

My biggest concern is that using a phone killed my reading habit. I guess reading short shallow posts is the actual problem. Really pissed about it. I try to read a book and my attention span lasts for a couple of minutes. I tried kindle to keep the form factor. No luck :( I used to read a lot, a lot!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> If there is a flip phone that has good audible support, I'd be tempted. If it also had decent strava support, I think I'd be hard pressed not to use it.

<comment><USER17> Yeah, it only works for people who only really need their phones for the phone calls. It doesn't make sense to get three devices (basic phone, mp3 player, fit bit [or something else]) to replace the one that served those purposes before.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I think as more and more people find that they need or want to take back control over gheir time, more people will follow her in this direction.

Main question will be whether small screen flip phones will be made with modern modems to connect to modern infra wich may not support older Gen wireless nets for too long.

An old flip phone would work if it supported mainstream authenticators.

<comment><USER60> Lots of scaled-back phones are being made with LTE. E.g.

[https://www.kyoceramobile.com/duraxv- lte/](https://www.kyoceramobile.com/duraxv-lte/)

[https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_3310_4g-9046.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_3310_4g-9046.php)

[https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_8110_4g-9089.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_8110_4g-9089.php)

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> I've felt a similar urge recently to turn off the noise. I was feeling especially burned out by the never-ending work pings over email and slack. Deleting a few apps I couldn't moderate and disabling ALL app notifications except Messenger (which I use with close friends and family only) has provides a huge improvement in my mental health. There's also an app called Moment I've been using to track my phone use and try to move toward more intentional ways of usint devices; I had pretty shocking numbers when I first started tracking. We should use the technology, not let the technology use us.

</comment><comment><USER62> I feel like if I could have one device that lets me take really nice pictures (like portrait mode on iphone) and only do texting and phone calls and maps, I would be a pretty happy person. Maybe airline apps for boarding passes and stuff. I can survive without email/slack/all the other bullshit.

Life goes on, if it's an emergency I'm sure someone will get a hold of me somehow. But I want to take pictures of my wife and dogs, I want to text her and my friends, and I don't want to get lost. Music streaming is nice too. That's about it.

I guess I am just bitching about social media to be honest...

<comment><USER63> Social media apps are easy to uninstall, and that's what I've done. For the occasional Facebook event / messenger use case I need (some people insist on communicating through these), I use mbasic.facebook.com, which I think is the mobile web FB for the developing world. It's very fast, very barebones, but has all the features you really need.

<comment><USER8> Facebook Twitter and linkedin came pre installed on my Samsung phone, and can't be removed (or even hidden as far as i can see)

<comment><USER64> That's terrible! What carrier is that evil?

<comment><USER8> EE in the UK. I wasn't aware it was my carrier bundljng it, I thought it was Samsung!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> There are new feature phones available in the market, with the benefits of modern technology such as better display, keyboard, battery.. Its probably not advertised much, but it is still there, and very much available.

</comment><comment><USER66> I've definietly got a problem with this. I don't feel anxious without the phone, in fact I quite enjoy it. But with it, I find myself checking it during any mental downtime. Brexit-fueled anxiety has caused me to compulsively check the news multiple times a day for a while now. It must be destructive to my mental process.

I'm not going back. I love the camera, I love having my books and music with me everywhere. I love the GPS.

But I can't wait for iOS 12 so I can slap obtuse time limits on my Twitter and browser use.

<comment><USER32> To be fair, this might just be a news-based issue rather than a phone-based one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> I have a kindle fro reading, ipod for music and a box that makes tvs into android TVs.

A simple phone for calling is enough for me. Plus the nostalgia.

</comment><comment><USER68> Why does it have to be an actual discussion? Why do have people argue about their reasoning of their usage of phones in any way? Like it's your life, do whatever you want! Fact is smartphones make life easier Fact is people are addicted to, if they are, not your problem. Well if they don't cause accident's while texting and driving...

</comment><comment><USER69> I just always select "Dont allow" when prompted for notification unless its a messaging/finance app, I get less distracted a LOT compared to all those useless notifications like "You've been away for x hours heres what you missed" Am on the way of unscribing a lot of promo emails to currently.

<comment><USER70> Exactly! Turn off all notifications, unless the app is specifically a communications app (calls, messages). I switched off notifications for emails as well, they can wait until I check manually.

Facebook/Instagram/Parking/Maps/whatever apps just spam you with notifications that don't matter.

</comment></comment><comment><USER71> I like my flip phone because it cost $40, I get prepaid service for $9 a month, it holds its charge for a week, I can drop it and it still works, and no one is going to hit me on the head and take it away from me.

On the other hand, it's embarrassing when I use it in downtown San Francisco.

</comment><comment><USER72> See also: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/magazine/how-to-go- back-t...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/magazine/how-to-go-back-to-a- flip-phone.html)

</comment><comment><USER73> No worries people, we've got you covered ! With KaiOS !

( [https://www.kaiostech.com/return-nokia-8110-banana- phone/](https://www.kaiostech.com/return-nokia-8110-banana-phone/) )

</comment><comment><USER74> There's a privacy aspect to also consider. Many flip phones don't have front facing cameras and gps chips in them. It's nice to know big brother isn't watching me(as much).

</comment><comment><USER75> I have used a flip-phone for the past five years and two years before that I didn't use a cell phone at all. Though I didn't need to write an entire article defending my choice.

</comment><comment><USER76> Is there a modern dumb phone (physical keyboard, LCD display) still smart enough to sync with my Google Contacts? That's one convenience I'm not willing to give up on.

</comment><comment><USER77> Welcome to the new "I don't own a Television"

</comment><comment><USER78> Seems self defeating to sit down here and write about how my screen addiction isn't problematic, so maybe I'll just go for a walk instead.

</comment><comment><USER79> iPhone SE without App Store, I don't mind dumb phone but I want a modern dumb phone.</comment>


I'm a freelance copywriter - <AUTHOR> http://getcoleman.com/ <comment><USER2> Going through his portfolio, my sarcastic side trying to find something that will somehow justify for my mind why a person's writing is so good that he gets paid for it consistently. Flip through, see [0] A picture of a boy playing in a puddle with a Washtub on his head, with the caption:

"The joy of being five.

You've got just 365 days to capture it".

Ok, now I get it. (goes to my soon to be 6 daughter and gives her a huge hug, and wish I have taken more pictures, and telling my wife I just got something stuck in my eye)

[0] [http://getcoleman.com/wp- content/uploads/2016/02/1_Jessops-B...](http://getcoleman.com/wp- content/uploads/2016/02/1_Jessops-Bath-Boy-2.jpg)

<comment><USER3> Yeah, very evocative.

Being not-very-emotional, I always figured that "they grow up too fast" wouldn't hit me, but it has. There is so much more I wanted to provide my son (the oldest, age 7). I wish that I could just put his growth timeline on pause and continue to get to enjoy him, at least until I feel like I've gotten the TODO at least half-way cleared out.

7 years gone by, 7 more years and he'll be 14. Half of his childhood already slipped through the hourglass and I barely noticed it. Can't take it.

Same story with his siblings. It seems that no matter how much time you spend with them, it will always feel like it evaporated, and there will always be stuff you wanted to do but couldn't get to. I don't expect that to change, but the sadness in that slippage is profound.

I hope the future, where they're all old people, is somehow competitive with the present. Hard to conceive how that could happen right now.

Speaking of something in eyes...

<comment><USER4> This Cat Stevens song always brings something to the eyes.

[https://youtu.be/7OqwKfgLaeA](https://youtu.be/7OqwKfgLaeA)

<comment><USER5> This is not a Cat Stevens song.

However, Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam did write "Father & Son" \- which brings tears to my eyes... when I think of my son and my dad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you want a general term for this sort of thing: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StretchText](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StretchText). (The original note describing the concept: [http://i.imgur.com/jOCOQGI.png](http://i.imgur.com/jOCOQGI.png))

<comment><USER7> That image is an absolutely fascinating historical artifact. He's describing (in a related paper) the essence of web sites _in detail in 1965_.

It's difficult to even imagine how few people were thinking of such things when they were so far removed everyday life and culture.

Tim Berners-Lee I thought was much more well known for starting a revolution with the world wide web. I hate to say but the web seems a bit less of an insight when you know that Hypertext had already been so well established for almost 25 years.

[https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson)

<comment><USER8> He's actually describing the essence of something _much more ambitious_ than the World Wide Web, if you can believe that.

Ted Nelson's idea was/is called "Xanadu":

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Xanadu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Xanadu)

The Xanadu vision is centered on a hypertext system, like the Web. But _unlike_ the Web, it also includes such things as:

\- A mechanism for embedding live documents within other documents ("transclusion": [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transclusion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transclusion))

\- Bidirectional links, that updated themselves automatically when the address of the linked document changed (see [http://dubinko.info/blog/2009/11/22/how- xanadu-works/](http://dubinko.info/blog/2009/11/22/how-xanadu-works/))

\- An addressing system that goes beyond just documents to let you link directly to any range of content you wish ("tumblers": [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbler_(Project_Xanadu)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbler_\(Project_Xanadu\)))

\- Automatic, redundant cross-network storage of all documents (a built-in Wayback Machine)

\- A micropayments system for content creators to sell access to what they create

\- Strong identity built in (a necessity if you want to also have payments built in)

... and much more.

Xanadu is (in theory anyway) a much more sophisticated system than the Web is even _today,_ never mind the Web as it was when TBL first designed it. Back then it was so much more crude than Xanadu as to barely merit comparison.

But in a way that was TBL's genius, because, while the Web was much more crude than Xanadu architecturally, it was something that _could actually be implemented_ with the early-'90s technology he had on hand. Xanadu, a much grander vision, was _so much_ grander that it has defied fifty years' worth of efforts to implement it. (Back when _Wired_ was worth reading, they ran a good piece on the state of those efforts circa 1995: [https://www.wired.com/1995/06/xanadu/](https://www.wired.com/1995/06/xanadu/) It's still defying implementation today, more than twenty years later.)

So we ended up with the Web we have, which kinda sorta works except for all the ways that it really doesn't. (Paying content creators, for instance.) Ted Nelson saw all those problems coming, all the way back in 1960, and he tried to come up with a system that would head them all off. He hasn't succeeded (not _yet_ , anyway!), but you have to admire both the vision and the attempt.

<comment><USER9> I favorited your comment so I can point people to it who have trouble grasping "worse is better". This is a much better example than clos vs scheme or linux vs microkernels.

<comment><USER10> It is a good example indeed.

Though when dealing with people who reject "worse is better", remember that some people may not grasp the idea, but others may grasp it very well and just consider it a _bad thing_ \- a problem to work around.

<comment><USER11> I mentioned "Worse is Better" on this site a few days ago and received this comment:

> "Worse is better" has nothing to do with it. Stop saying it every time > anything you think is bad comes up. It's incredibly arrogant, the way people > basically spam "worse is better" like they're in Twitch chat every time C, > Unix, HTTP, or anything else that they perceive as imperfect comes up.

It didn't occur to me that I was being offensive.

<comment><USER7> You're not being offensive. It's an important, non-obvious, under taught engineering principle. I understand the phenomenon he's describing and it's unfortunate he can't tell the difference.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> OMG, this is awesome. Favorited!

I actually am a freelance copywriter. I probably fall pretty close to "If you need a freelance copywriter, you could phone me. Or not."

Except s/phone/email.

This may partly explain my poverty. Perhaps explosions and aggression is The Way.

Tao te Copywriting

Edit: He says he's flexible. Makes me think of this:

[http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=flexible&qs=n&form=QBIR&...](http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=flexible&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=flexible&sc=8-8&sp=-1&sk=)

(I confess: I might be a former gymnastics student. Maybe.)

</comment><comment><USER13> Its rare that you come across a unique personal pitch tactic with this much selling power and focus. For me, this was one of those rare occasions where it actually happened. This guy seems very good at what he does.

<comment><USER14> Creativity and novelty are always rewarded. No one gets noticed doing the same pitch everyone else does.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Reminds me of this old " _Microsoft Re-Designs the iPod Packaging_ " [1].

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k)

</comment><comment><USER16> Can someone explain this phenomenon to me: [http://i.imgur.com/lIAwLXP.png](http://i.imgur.com/lIAwLXP.png)

<comment><USER17> Second one looks like a spam.

<comment> Method-X It's more hard sell. HN responds better to soft sell.

<comment><USER16> The second one links to the very same URL (and actually came first). What's also interesting is that HN didn't block the 2nd one at all; they should've kept the first one only.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Are websites like that supposed to carry a warning for epileptics?

<comment><USER19> There are W3C recommendations on photosensitive epilepsy; the key recommendation is to keep the flash rate of any large area of the screen below 3Hz. This recommendation follows broadcast television standards. The flash rate on this site is 2Hz, so it poses a relatively low risk of triggering PSE.

[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#general- thresholddef](https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#general-thresholddef)

<comment><USER20> Thanks for that. I'm clearly bad at estimating the frequency, since I thought it was probably below the threshold recommended. Glad to know I was wrong.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I've been doing freelance writing for 4 years now.

It truly is about presenting those small wisps of childhood joy through simple stories. Unfortunately, only small projects are fit for that, as corporate staff generally loathes any risk or anything different from the "standard".

For example, I was once asked to do a Christmas video for a plumbing company and was shown the last year's version, which was simply shot after shot of the company's staff saying their names to the camera.

I decided to write an actual Christmas carol about a mouse that got stuck in the drain due to broken dishwasher hose on Christmas Eve and got saved by the company's employees. Though the client praised my writing skills, she said the script got rejected because the higher-ups didn't appreciate the thought of mice in customers' homes.

</comment><comment><USER22> Love it! This is great communication, and I'd like to book Joe even though I have no copy that needs writing. (Or meet for a cup his namesake.)

</comment><comment><USER23> Trifling bug report (but in this sort of thing it's worth getting the details right): one of the versions has "fewawards" instead of "few awards".

[EDITED to add:] Er, I was assuming that this was posted by the person who wrote it and that the latter is therefore reading this. But it looks like it wasn't, so maybe he isn't.

<comment><USER24> Call him and let him know.

<comment><USER23> I found his email address and sent him an email. I got a reply saying the error had already been noticed. (It hasn't actually been fixed yet, though.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Fascinating and educational to see all those variations! Reminds me a little of _99 Ways to Tell a Story_ by Matt Madden: [http://mattmadden.com/comics/99x/](http://mattmadden.com/comics/99x/)

<comment><USER6> I haven't read _99 Ways to Tell a Story,_ but when I read Raymond Queneau's _Exercises in Style_ about a decade ago (in English translation) I was delighted by it. Though I have not reread the book recently, 2008-me would heartily recommend it.

I've noticed that exercises in style (in writing or in visual art, comics, video games and what have you) and practices like constrained writing and their analogues in other media seem to resonate with a certain type of computer/math nerd. It affects even those who would rather not associate with anything described as "literary". I think being a nerd predisposes one towards enjoying a kind of formalism in art.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> I could refer to this when writing cover letters. First line in my most recent cover letter "I was ecstatic..." fail... My eyes were popping out of my head when I came across this listing.

edit: following through the progression, it would not be hard to emulate this and get responses but then the problem comes back to your actual competence. Thanks for sharing this is helpful.

edit: would probably help to dissect this for visible-progression, but the pattern seems to be:

feel free -> if you need -> hello I'm -> then more and more dictating, not so much choice, you need to choose me.

</comment><comment><USER27> Check out the business cards in the projects listing, they are gold.

</comment><comment><USER28> Perfect example of a clever functional component to convey your business / sell yourself.

One usability note: I would turn 'less / more hard sell' either side of the slider into links that move it forward/back as keeping my mouse pressed down on the slider reading through all the options was a little cumbersome.

<comment><USER29> You can also use arrow keys to progress the slider one step at a time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I get a 403 error when I try to access the site ;(

```Forbidden

You don't have permission to access / on this server.

Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.```

</comment><comment><USER31> Just love the website content and slider. So wish that many more sites were like this. We could all save time by reading the one sentence version and move on.

</comment><comment><USER32> Interesting to see "call me on _phone number_ " in stead of "call me at _phone number_ ". Is that the appropriate way to say it where this guy is?

<comment><USER33> Yes it's a UK number and that is an acceptable way to say that in the UK.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I really like it. Might have to mimic your style for an editor friend of mine. Do you incorporate this style somehow into your business cards (if you have any at the moment)?

<comment><USER28> Good idea for business cards like this. Could leverage multi-design printing such as Moo's Printfinity[0] (allows for a different design on every card).

[0] - [https://www.moo.com/uk/about/printfinity.html](https://www.moo.com/uk/about/printfinity.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> The site is down. Resource limit hit.

Edit:...and it's back again.

</comment><comment><USER36> Clever, effective and no Oxford commas.

<comment><USER37> I see what you did there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Genius.

</comment><comment><USER39> warning, flashing on the rightmost setting.

</comment><comment><USER40> Why is this here?

I mean it just sort of reeks of advertising.

That and that website is really unoptimized.

</comment><comment><USER41> He should change the description from "hard sell" to "hard on the eyes."

<comment><USER42> Check out [http://lingscars.com](http://lingscars.com). It will desensitise you.

<comment><USER43> Agreed.

Lingscars.com is arguably the worst money-making website on the Internet [0].

[0] [http://metro.co.uk/2015/02/15/welcome-to-lingscars-quite- pos...](http://metro.co.uk/2015/02/15/welcome-to-lingscars-quite-possibly-the- worst-and-weirdest-website-on-the-internet-5063801/)

<comment><USER42> A little anecdote, a few years ago I posted a link to her site here. Moments later the traffic from Hacker News took down her site and she took to Twitter to complain about the "Hackers" that brought her site down.

<comment><USER26> Is there a way to DDOS your self on purpose? I want to bench mark my servers. I saw that there are some tools, damn... need to refer to some old forum threads...

<comment><USER44> Not exactly a (D)DoS tool, but it comes quite handy, too – [https://github.com/shekyan/slowhttptest](https://github.com/shekyan/slowhttptest)

<comment><USER26> Thanks, I was wondering how you get that "Build/Passing" thing on the GitHub.

I'm also not sure if Apache is outdated, like I should really move to NGINX or Node/Amazon, I have yet to configure overflow handling (forwarding traffic in the event of a server not being able to handle it all) I was looking at public cloud before, kind of interesting, said something like $0.010/ or maybe $0.10/GB not sure if that was storage or bandwidth but yeah. I also wonder how hard/how you should create quick "copies" or "images" of your application and then be able to forward traffic to that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> fucking genius

</comment><comment><USER46> A mild point, but I don't think it's good copywriting to ask a yes/no question. Still, a clever website.

<comment><USER46> Downvotes: I've worked in advertising for over 10 years. Most copywriters try to avoid the direct yes/no questions in headlines. For effective headlines, go scan the cover of a Cosmopolitan magazine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> Isn't this what advertising agencies already do, but with deep learning (based on your past behavior) instead of the slider?

</comment><comment><USER48> Uh... why is this on the front page of HN? Feels like spam but I'm probably missing something.

<comment><USER49> Drag the slider.

It's not about the person, or his job. It's about the clever concept.

<comment><USER48> Thank you! I didn't notice it; think it was not visible on my old Android but could see it on my Mac desktop.

<comment><USER50> I hit the downvote on your comment before realizing what you meant, and I agree, the slider is a little subtle, even on a desktop. I think it might go better at the top, before the text.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Common, we're not here to get advertising, even if it's well done, I really don;t care about your skills, your supposed talent, and you B&W website. You might want to think you're special, but I still want to see something I could think of of special..

<comment><USER51> btw nice hack : getting ~400pts on a saturday night, with this kind of uninteresting content. Growth hacking is good only when you've got something edgy to sell</comment></comment>


Now for Gitlab - <AUTHOR> https://zeit.co/blog/now-for-gitlab <comment><USER2> I was a little confused on how this differed from GitLab CI. The CEO of Zeit gave me a response:

[https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/1108035208903684096](https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/1108035208903684096)

"GitLab + Now gives you a multi-cloud, multi-language/framework serverless solution with built-in CI/CD, TLS (Let's Encrypt), DNS with zero maintenance or configuration.

Most CI solutions involve painful config, fine-tuning & dedicated folks keeping it up to date."</comment>