No, I won't read your amateur Covid-19 "research paper" - <AUTHOR> https://ryanwaggoner.substack.com/p/no-i-wont-read-your-amateur-covid <comment><USER3> This screed is disappointing to me. We tell people to go out and do their own research. We tell people to avoid just buying into group think. We want people to be informed citizens who do research, share their research with others, and are open to revealed facts vs just buying into the most appealing emotion- laden rhetoric.

Some dude does a bunch of research, reasons as carefully as he can about the subject, and openly provides his research and reasoning to others. The very first note in his research is a disclaimer to say that he's a layperson with no medical or scientific credentials. It doesn't appear that he's trying to deceive anyone.

Why the piling on? Why the expenditure of so much effort to silence his intellectual inquiry?

<comment><AUTHOR> The disclaimer was added after the fact.

I'm not trying to "silence" anyone. The author should be free to write whatever he wants. I just think it's irresponsible and I'd like to encourage people with any influence or audience to do better.

EDIT: lots of criticism of me not mentioning that the author added a disclaimer later. It's a fair criticism, I've updated my article.

<comment><USER4> _The disclaimer was added after the fact._

So you're saying that the guy is open to criticism of his work and correcting it.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I don't see how it's irresponsible to work hard at being a more informed citizen and helping to pass that information on to others.

<comment><USER5> The fact that he changed that without taking into account any of the _other_ flaws in his work suggests that he is not, actually, open to criticism of his work.

Here are some examples. He shows charts estimating per age range fatality rates and leaves out the most vulnerable group. He estimates an IFR and thinks that is comparable with a CFR. (They are not.) He is apparently unaware of the fact that IFRs have long been thought to be a bit under 1%. (For example [https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial- college/medicine/s...](https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial- college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI- modelling-16-03-2020.pdf) in mid-March was the paper that convinced the UK to do a lockdown - it used an estimated IFR of 0.9%.) He does his own IFR calculation for the least vulnerable groups without looking at research showing the full IFR. He complains about hospitals being underloaded while refusing to acknowledge that hospitals would be overloaded without lockdowns. He fails to admit that it is extremely hard to limit transmissions within managed care facilities, and in an environment with lots of COVID-19 around you, personal distancing measures provide very little protection. (In other words we cannot simply "isolate the old people" and expect it to work.)

In other words he is ignoring every widely known fact that undermines his position. Which not coincidentally are the facts that lead everyone else to the opposite conclusion from his.

Given that he can't fail to have seen many points like these, his leaving them out of his analysis shows dishonesty on his part. And no, he is not attempting to correct this fault.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > _We can't take a close look at all of that chatter before deciding._

Yes you can. For example, if there's a lot of chatter in favor of reopening, you could find a thorough summary of arguments in favor of reopening - <USER2> like the article you're complaining about! - and do your best to evaluate it on merits.

> _I don't know if he's evaluating the data correctly, or if he's ignoring > other relevant data that doesn't support his conclusion._

Then you'll have the same problem with writings by experts. They have written plenty of articles with basic mistakes, see for example the Santa Clara serology study [1] and the takedown by Gelman [2]. Knowing a bit of math, I rechecked the calculations and figured out that Gelman is correct, even though he isn't an epidemiologist. If you use "context" and "motivations" and "heuristics" as excuses to avoid evaluating the argument on merits, maybe you should rethink what you're doing.

[1] [https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1.full.pdf)

[2] [https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/04/19/fatal- flaw...](https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/04/19/fatal-flaws-in- stanford-study-of-coronavirus-prevalence/)

<comment><USER7> > [...] excuses to avoid evaluating the argument on merits, maybe you should > rethink what you're doing.

I think his argument still holds: experts having made mistakes doesn't change the fact that you are unlikely to be able to evaluate based on merits in the first place. Unless you are an expert in the field, you're highly unlikely to know enough about the other research out there which is valid, applicable and could contradict the findings; you're not capable of proper evaluation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> > The author even wrote the whole thing using "we" instead of "I", which > subtly gives the impression that a group of people collaborated to write > this

Note, this is standard in the academic world, even if there is a single author. But it is a further way in which a phoney might mislead readers into thinking it is a credible academic paper.

<comment><USER9> He used We because his paper is open for PR and he was hoping to get contributions. He offered to change it and even put a disclaimer at the top.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23025809](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23025809)

If you'd like to submit a PR to the original paper you can totally do that and it'll be open for everyone to see. I may not agree with the author but I don't think attacking him is fair (on these points). Based on reading his comments he seems open to discourse and suggestions on his paper.

<comment><AUTHOR> Note that he added the disclaimer later, after being called out [1] for making the specious argument that adding a disclaimer would be "too verbose".

1\. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23030215](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23030215)

<comment><USER9> So he didn't think he needed a disclaimer, had a discussion around it, then added a disclaimer. That's exactly what I want from another human being. Someone who is open minded enough to have a discussion, opinionated enough to back up what they think, but in the end plyable enough to make an important change when they see it.

I might suggest you edit your post to include a nod to his disclaimer, as you've shown now that you know about it but don't mention it in your article.

<comment><AUTHOR> I didn't include mention of the disclaimer because it wasn't in place when I saw the article in question, and I didn't link to the article because I don't think it deserves any more visibility.

Also, just looking at the comments on the original article, I don't think the author is open-minded or pliable, but that's just my .02.

<comment><USER9> But now you know, you could easily add an edit and an "This wasn't originally there but after being outted the author added it."

No I'm not saying link the paper, I was saying your HN link that's all.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> There are some legitimate complaints here, but the point about the paper being well-written seems weird. Would the author prefer the discussion of such an important topic be poorly organized and perfunctory? Also, using "we" is standard scientific practice, not some bluff.

<comment><USER11> > Also, using "we" is standard scientific practice, not some bluff.

No. The standard practice is to use passive forms.

EDIT: I've been informed by the people responding that passive form is now considered archaic, so apparently using first pronouns is now acceptable. This must've changed since I did my research.

<comment><USER12> This is.. a bit historical. While the passive voice was recommended in the past, most journals and advisors recommend using active voice in papers now.

<comment><USER11> Thanks for the update. Back when I did my studies (less than a decade ago) I was told, and all papers were also written, passively.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I think Ryan is mostly right. We can't give everyone a shot at everything, there simply is no way to evaluate every claim from everyone. Imagine if we had to read papers proposing to inject people with disinfectant.

Of course that does leave is with the authority of guilds in each area. They get to define who is a member and who is not, and where the research money goes within each area.

The major problems I find with this approach is that we end up letting the experts decide things that they are not experts in, and we have to trust their own policing.

They cannot within their own guild decide what tradeoffs society should make, it necessarily requires more than one expert opinion, and there's no way to say the concerns of one group must outweigh that of another. It's always a political decision by someone who isn't an expert in every field.

As for their own policing, there are plenty of examples of the experts being wrong. How a non-expert is gonna fix that I don't know, but not having external oversight is a due diligence failure.

<comment><USER14> It's not a real problem though. We can give everyone a shot at everything simply because very few will take it and even fewer will be able to reach the point where their claims have to be evaluated by others or someone in a position of decision making. Having authorities on subjects can't do anything good, it only allows to silence and ignore uncomfortable questions and opinions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> The problem is essentially spam filtering with much higher stakes. A priori the source of an unusual paper might be one of:

\- a genuine innovation from a polymath outside the field or undiscovered talent (Ramanujan)

\- someone outside the field applying a well-understood technique from their own field in a new area (used to be common in bioinformatics back when it was done with Perl)

\- someone in a non-first-world country much closer to the problem or with a connection to traditional relevant knowledge

Then there are the ones which turn out to be wrong:

\- respected but crank-ish behaviour within the field: someone well respected who is extremely enthsiastic about an idea beyond all evidence, such as Linus Pauling's enthusiasm for vitamin C

\- respected but ideological behaviour within the field: e.g. the warring schools of economics

\- novices who are bad at checking their work: students who believe they've solved a famous conjecture but left out a minus sign on page 65. Most senior academics deal with a lot of these routinely.

\- field outsiders getting cranky in another field: William Shockley's opinions on biology

\- freelance not-for-profit cranks: outsiders who are wrong, but simply because of error and not malice

\- for-profit cranks: this is where it starts getting genuinely dangerous, as these people can be high-output and are aimed at the public. All manner of quacks are in this category, such as the "miracle mineral solution" people who have been trying to get people to inject bleach.

\- culture war cranks: The Alex Jones and David Ikes of the world. Even more dangerous as they are not afraid to libel people and destroy those who cross them.

It is no more possible to submit every paper you see to rigorous review and replication than it is to do your spam filtering by sending money to every Nigerian prince who asks for it and seeing which ones send it back. They will destroy you because their capacity to waste your time and effort exceeds yours. You have to go Bayesian; look for red flags that indicate that it falls into one of those categories above.

</comment><comment><USER16> Another thing that really matters - Peer review from other experts in the field. We have mechanisms whose job it is to do what this article was talking about, see if the claims made add up/if the references are interpreted correctly etc. It's obviously not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than no peer review

</comment><comment><USER17> If you only permit established domain experts to voice ideas you will severely limit potential advancements. Innovation is often the product of multiple disciplines intersecting to produce something novel.

<comment> nil-sec Do you have an example from the last, say 20 years, where an actual amateur made any significant scientific contribution to an established field? I have strong doubts such a person exists. Simply because science, at the very least, requires you to be aware of what has been done already. Of course there are collaborations between researchers but this is a totally different point.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Here's the article referred to: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23025044](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23025044)

<comment><USER19> Interesting - not quite what I expected from the article.

I think that lines like "So, we feel that we must say that the right to freedom of assembly (along with all of our other rights) are not luxuries that are graciously extended to us by the ruling class" and statements about the "WHO's pattern of lying" make clear that this is a political opinion piece not a scientific paper.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> This is just a hollow pro-credential posturing without any substance to it. What is the point here supposed to even be? That software engineers too dumb to understand statistics and probability, and should just leave this to the 'experts' like the ones the original author was citing in order to make his argument?

I don't understand the critique of tone in this either. Is the idea here supposed to be "I disagree with what the author was saying, so he shouldn't have written it well with a concise tone" ? That is what this comes off sounding like the author here is saying. Like he thinks if your idea is wrong, you aren't allowed to write well or something.

</comment><comment><USER21> Maybe I'm missing something, but this person doesn't appear to be an epistemologist or even any kind of trained philosopher. I'm not sure why he thinks that any of us should listen to the advice about who we should listen to the advice about covid-19 from someone who isn't an expert in a relevant field.

</comment><comment><USER22> So the original paper is sophistry because:

>the author linked to many research papers by experts

>wove an argument together out of all that research

>The tone was authoritative and confident

>it's fairly long and comprehensive

>it's well-organized

War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength. The paper is bad because it is good.

The author of the original paper was more thoughtful than this one's. A good post would have investigated the original paper's claims and responded to them. This is a low-effort take.

</comment><comment><USER23> _" For example, when evaluating claims in a high-stakes, high-uncertainty, high-complexity area, like the public policy approach to COVID-19, a good heuristic might be "does this person have expertise or experience in a relevant field?"_

Ironically, the author of this blog post doesn't exhibit expertise or experience in _any_ relevant field.

</comment><comment><USER24> "No I won't read your amateur Special Relativity 'Research Paper', you dumb patent clerk"

<comment><USER25> Not at all equivalent. Einstein had a relevant degree -- albeit "only" a teaching degree -- and his _annus mirabilus_ papers were not self-published; they were submitted to and accepted by a respected scientific journal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> This post is essentially saying don't even try to comment in an intelligent formal tone, citing sources, etc, on things you don't have a credential for. A surprisingly large number of fields are just applied statistics/probability with some minor domain knowledge tossed in. So people who are familiar with statistical methods can comment on things like this very fast. Further, that guy was explicitly citing people from the field to make his argument, not making some outlandish claim without backing it up.

In this post there is literally nothing about the actual content of what the other person was saying. There is nothing here about what citations they maybe were using incorrectly or misunderstanding.

There is nothing here saying what statistical tools they might have been accidentally abusing. There is nothing here! I'll speak for myself and say I'll judge ideas on their own merits not some empty credentialist garbage.

</comment><comment><USER27> Sounds like we need better heuristics. It doesn't make sense to ignore research papers based on their origin.

Each paper _should_ be evaluated on its merits. A system with submission, voting, and comments (HN/reddit) is a good way to filter the wheat from the chaff. It's hard to believe this basic technology hasn't reached the scientific fields.

<comment><USER28> They have. It's called "peer review". It is just that peer review is a slow process, so it doesn't really work in a fast-moving crisis environment.

Part of peer review being a slow process may be fixable (although it is difficult to compel unpaid, volunteering reviewers to adhere to strict deadlines), but part of peer review being a slow process is specifically that if you do not want to rely on heuristics such as author credentials you need to take the time to really analyze a paper to avoid falling into the traps mentioned in the original article (confirmation bias, being misled by an authoritative tone etc.). And HN/Reddit votes IMHO are definitely not a good example of avoiding any of these.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> It would be helpful if this linked to the original article/paper to put it in context.

<comment><USER29> I disagree, this post applies to many, many discussions/dissections/etc about the current pandemic.

The skepticism in general applies even more widely. The point is to make you think harder next time you read an amateur post on COVID.

<comment><USER19> The post makes a number of claims that I disagree with generally, like the idea that a person who is not a formal expert on a subject has no business offering evidence-based opinions on the subject.

I think a link to the original paper would help me better judge where the author is coming from and whether, in context, he/she is making good points here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Why is this story flagged? I think it's as reasonable to be on HN as the original.

</comment><comment><USER31> I am not going to defend that particular guy. I am surely not going to take this kind of advice from generic Joe Doe.

But here is the example that comes out of Chief Public Health Officer of Canada: "Canada's top doctor told CBC News the federal government could have made earlier efforts to keep the COVID-19 pandemic from sweeping across the country — but moves to close borders and screen travellers for the illness sooner _might not have made much of a difference_."

This _might not have made much of a difference_ really got me. What if it did make effin' difference. When this kind of argument is presented by top health official with top credential I do not even know what to think. Ok the CBC could've misquoted/misrepresented her point of view but then where is the correction?

</comment><comment><USER32> I've noticed the appeals to authority have ramped up since the authorities have been wrong over and over, again and again. At what point do we just stop calling them authorities?

At this point, the software engineer is more believable because he has fewer reasons to lie to you. The "expert" is going to be held up and crucified (in the style of this blog post) if he goes against the accepted narrative. And that's if he's not bought off right at the start.

This isn't the software engineer's credibility problem. It's yours.

<comment><USER5> Note that the reply was itself written by a software engineer as well. There is no particular reason to believe one over the other.

As for "authorities", I distinguish between people who try to understand and think well, versus those who have been recognized by bureaucracies and politicians. The first group has done astoundingly well. The second group has failed over and over again.

Sadly it is the second group that is in charge. And the result has been repeated institutional failures. :-(

<comment><USER4> Yeah... [https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html](https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Why is some random non-academic's uneducated opinion about academic paper relevant, important, literally anything at all?

<comment><USER29> That's not what this is. It's a post explaining why and how you should be skeptical of authoritative-sounding blogs about COVID.

It is more important than ever that people be able to understand what are reliable facts and what is merely opinion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Can't help but notice the author's title, _No, I won 't read your amateur COVID-19 "research paper"_, which suggests it should be about COVID-19, immediately begins by criticizing an unlinked "paper" that seems to be about public policy impact from government actions.

<comment><USER29> And?

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> ,,the author is a software engineer, not economist or epidemologist''

Great! I have tried economist math test for university students, and it was a joke. I wouldn't trust any economist being able to analyze data, as they don't have the scientific background. I would invite any economist to try to solve my computer science calculus university test in 45 minutes.</comment>


Show HN: Explore coding contests and hackathons from around the world - <AUTHOR> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/challenge-hunt/cgbnhngdlmhjbmgkekedepoapmoingjj/? <comment><AUTHOR> Hi fellow HNers!

I am Archit, one of the co-creators of Challenge Hunt.

We felt the need for building Challenge Hunt when we started participating in online coding contests while in our college. We noticed that there was no central place where one could see all coding competitions happening around the internet. So, an year back Chirrag and I built Challenge Hunt as a side project.

Seeing the amazing response from the community we decided to add hackathons, hiring and data science challenges along with coding competitions. Sukhmeet joined and helped us a create a beautiful UI.

It allows you to:

1\. View all active and upcoming: * Coding contests * Hackathons * Data Science challenges * Hiring challenges

2\. Set reminders on upcoming challenges so that you don't miss out on any challenge.

3\. Set your preferred online challenge platforms and Challenge Hunt will show you challenges from only those platforms.

I am really excited to get some feedback and take any question from this amazing community!</comment>


F.A.A. Panel Backs Easing of Device Rules - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/business/faa-panel-would-ease-policy-on-electronic-devices-aloft.html?_r=0

<comment><USER2> It's worth remembering this didn't occur in a vacuum. From Senator McCaskill's open letter to the head of the FAA last December¹:

 _…I urge the agency to embrace the expanded use of PEDs…_

 _…the public is growing increasingly skeptical of prohibitions on the use of many electronic devices…_

 _…such anachronistic policies undermine the public 's confidence in the FAA…_

 _…absurdity of the current situation…_

 _…It is my hope that the FAA will work, with the FCC and other federal agencies where appropriate, as expeditiously as possible to implement common sense changes…_

 _…I am prepared to pursue legislative solutions should progress be made too slowly._

␄

¹ [http://www.mccaskill.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1757](http://www.mccaskill.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1757)

Contemporaneous HN posting: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4914344](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4914344)

</comment><comment><USER3> Only took them, what, a decade? Maybe longer?

Things like this breed distrust in the government. If they had reacted in a couple of years after wifi became prevalent you could easily argue the "we need more testing" angle and people would buy it. But after 10+ years there's no good excuse.

What other stuff is happening right now that the government says is "unsafe" (and thus banned) which is actually safe, and what is "safe" (and thus not banned) which is not?

The only way for a government to have a believable claim to legitimacy is to work ruthlessly to minimize false positives and false negatives and if/when they happen to root out the source of the problem and ensure it'll never happen again. Sadly we rarely see much or any of this.

<comment><USER4> Meh. I can't get too upset about overconservative flight safety regulations. Yes, the risk was utterly minuscule from the get-go, but the cost of an accident in-flight is being weighed against the cost of your fellow citizens not being allowed to log into Facebook.

<comment><USER5> >>Meh. I can't get too upset about overconservative flight safety regulations.

No. No no no no.

Logic like this is often used by the government to justify the existence of things like the TSA. "We need to be overconservative to prevent terrorist attacks." Except it doesn't work when the measures are of questionable benefit whereas the costs are astronomical.

<comment><USER6> A major difference is that the TSA is largely protecting against a fictional threat, while the FAA's safety regulations are, overall, acting on proven dangers and are demonstrably successful.

Airline travel used to be pretty dangerous. Today, in the US, it's about as safe as any human endeavor has ever been. The danger is close enough to zero that the delta cannot be properly measured. Even in the past decade or so, airline travel has become _much_ safer.

This particular policy was almost certainly not useful. But the overall regime of "better safe than sorry" has proven to be highly effective _in this particular context_.

<comment><USER5> >>This particular policy was almost certainly not useful. But the overall regime of "better safe than sorry" has proven to be highly effective in this particular context.

The context here is this particular policy, not FAA's approach to airline travel as a whole.

<comment><USER7> You have to consider the agency and their mandates. What is it that is the FAA's number one priority: to make air travel safe. This means all of their policies are made from that perspective. They are a technical/regulatory agency, they don't really interact with the public. They interact with the airplane industry. As such, it's not really helpful to paint them with the same brush as the TSA or NSA. The FAA maybe slow to adjust their rules, but that doesn't mean it's with malice.

The TSA, on the other hand, is all about interacting with the public to try and make us feel safer about travel in general. Generally, interacting with the public is rarely a strong point for any government agency.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The restrictions predate wifi; they are based on supposed risk from EMF interference. You can't listen to your iPod during takeoff either ("please shut off all portable electronic devices").

</comment><comment><USER9> Good news for humanity, bad news for the print industry. For the last few years, the only time my wife and I bought magazines was at the airport before a flight so we had something to read for the departure and arrival when we had to "shut off all the devices with an on/off switch"

<comment><USER10> I don't know what percentage of overall print volume is covered by airport purchases, but I bet this spells bad news for the newsagents and bookshops at an airport. I wouldn't like to own one of them right now.

<comment><USER11> In the UK the airport 'news'agents now have entire walls of refrigerated bottled water.

There is no law in the UK requiring airports to provide free potable water to the public, so at around $3 per bottle this is an extremely lucrative consequence of security regulations.

Compared to that revenue, selling magazine is old hat!

* I am always delighted at the provision of water fountains in US airports. O'Hare even has ones specifically designed for filling bottles!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I still believe the issue is more deeply rooted in passenger safety than in actual electrical interference. Take-off and landing are generally regarded as the most risk-prone activities for an aircraft. Having passengers at least slightly less disengaged likely benefits everyone. Not to mention it is arguably unpleasant to have 200 tablets flying about.

<comment><USER13> "Sir, please shut off your electronics device as it may interfere with the navigational systems."

"Um, no. Did you SEE that episode of myth busters?"

"Oh. Well.. um.. the real reason is so you pay attention".

You can't just change the reason because your original reason has been proven wrong. If this was the real reason, then they should have been upfront about it.

But like a sibling commenter states - reading a book (as opposed to a kindle), or being deaf (as opposed to wearing earphones - this one's probably a bad comparison..) carry the same 'risks' and neither are banned.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> If you think these rules are absurd, you should see the FAA regulations on equipment you can install into private planes. NASA allows new tech into space WAY faster.

</comment><comment><USER15> So you can talk over wifi.

Let's see how that goes over when 50+ people in a small space start yammering.

<comment><USER7> You could _try_ , but the latency with the satellite or terrestrial towers is going to be significant. Unless you mean talking from one seat to another... in which case, yes, that would be annoying. :)</comment></comment>


The Oldest Cookbook in Korean - <AUTHOR> https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/first-korean-cookbook <comment><USER2> Something of note, Hangul was generally rejected among the literate elites in Korean society for centuries, which were mostly men. However, it found unexpected life as a written language for women, who otherwise didn't have opportunities to learn Chinese script. While some written material exists of Hangul being used to communicate between a man and a woman (usually a husband and wife), evidencing that men _could_ read and write Hangul as well -- which is not surprising as it's fascinatingly easy to learn to read -- most ancient Hangul documents we find were written by some for women.

It wasn't until the 20th century, partially as a counter occupation rise of national and ethnic identity against the Japanese colonizers that Hangul became modernized and accepted as the general script for Koreans.

In North Korea, as further assertions of national identity, all remnants of Chinese characters were purged and many loan words were provided with "preferred" native Korean words. In the South, Chinese characters were/are still seen as a prestige study and was even commonly mixed in with Hangul in newspapers but the use of Hanja is rapidly declining in print.

</comment><comment><USER3> It's interesting to see what Old World cuisine looked like before the spread of New World ingredients.

Editing in a quote from the article for repliers: _' Notably, there's no mention of gochugaru, the staple spice of Korean cuisine. Although gochugaru, made from New World chile peppers, became available during Lady Jang's lifetime, "the book is really about the royal cuisine of her ancestors, when gochugaru was not available," notes Lady Jo.'_

<comment><USER4> As per ginko, this is post Columbian Exchange. However there are older cookbooks, e.g. from 1390[1].

[1] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forme_of_Cury](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forme_of_Cury).

<comment><USER5> Perhaps, but this article is celebrating an ancient cookbook from Korea and not England.

Not only that but: "Some historians even believe it could be the first cookbook written by a woman in all of East Asia."

I am not familiar with the sexual politics/subtleties surrounding food, let alone writing about it, in East Asia. I suspect, given what I know from these parts (England), that women in East Asia had few opportunities to express themselves in any form, let alone a book that comes down through the centuries to today.

I suggest that Jang Gye-hyang did remarkably well and ought to be thought of as one of the fore-founders of a part of modern food. Here in the UK we have Mrs Beeton as a similar example (albeit rather later.)

<comment><USER6> While what you say about opportunities may be true, _The Tale of Genji_ was written by a Japanese woman. It's often considered the first novel.

<comment><USER5> I consider that a non-sequiter. I'm not trying to be rude but you have taken my comment, said nowt about it and then produced a The Tale of Genji which is nothing to do with food or the region we are discussing.

A cook book is on show here and not a novel.

You might like to investigate [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf) which is a poem written about the same time as The Tale of Genji. It isn't a novel as such. It's an epic in poetic form which is basically a long story with a lot of baggage!

Beowulf, I feel, helps to tie England to its roots and there are a lot of roots. A lot of roots, not to mention a tangled thicket above ground!

<comment><USER6> I was responding to this:

> _that women in East Asia had few opportunities to express themselves in any > form, let alone a book_

By pointing out that another woman in East Asia expressed herself in a book, which was passed down the centuries.

I'm familiar with Beowulf; English is my native language. Talk about non- sequiturs!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think it took me a while to understand (after being told by native speakers) that Korean and Japanese are a bit of a linguistic evolutionary puzzle, especially if you thought that because their characters look like Chinese, their spoken languages are related to Chinese.

They are not. The languages must have come first / evolved independent of China, and then a wave of foreign commerce / scholarly / government influence over centuries propagated Chinese writing to them.

So the spoken language uses Chinese based characters to record the sounds in writing, but it may not necessarily have relation to what the sounds are in Chinese if someone were to read the characters as if Chinese. And the spoken language is not at all related to Chinese (aside from some imported words). As if someone encountered English alphabet words being spoken with totally different sounds assigned to them.

That was very interesting to finally understand -- if I've even gotten it all correct...

<comment><USER8> The modern Korean writing system (hangul) is unrelated to Chinese.

Also, it's quite common for languages to be written in scripts originally developed for completely unrelated languages. Maltese is related to Arabic but written in the Latin (English) alphabet, Mongolian uses Cyrillic (Russian), Thai/Lao/Khmer derive from South Indian scripts, etc.

<comment><USER9> That's not completely true. Hangul characters are based off of Chinese characters.

<comment><USER10> Hangul is a syllibary where each character is formed from a consonant and a vowel symbol being merged in a consistent way. Even if a few of those symbol fragments are similar to chineese, the structural differences are stark enough that calling the whole thing based on chineese is misleading and deceptive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This reminds me of the Korean TV drama series Dae Jang Geum also known as Jewel in the Palace.[1]

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dae_Jang_Geum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dae_Jang_Geum)

<comment><USER12> Have you been able to find a high quality subbed version of this anywhere?

<comment><USER11> Unfortunatey, no. :(

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> even more amazing when you realize this was just the first one in the newer Korean script, and they had much older ones in the traditional Chinese script that was widely used by Koreans until recently.

</comment><comment><USER14> It still blows my mind how recent in history humans have been able to pass information into the future or across great distances. It's amazing we know anything.

<comment><USER15> And why oral history was such an important part of so many ancient cultures.

<comment><USER14> I've been thinking about that a lot lately (mostly in terms of my own memory) and a fun random thing I've been thinking of is that it's really impossible (at least to me) to visualize something with any meaningful fidelity. I can describe a scene, but that's just my description, it's so blurry.

When I hear a song I like, I can pretty much repeat it note for note when I whistle, and it conveys really the same feeling and meaning, but it's also a bit blurry on account of the details getting fuzzier like lyrics, specific instruments etc... but it feels a lot more authentic to the original memory/experience than anything I can ever visualize.

What I'm saying, is that I wonder if there's something special about how spoken/vocal memory sticks vs other kinds of memory.

<comment><USER16> I noticed that there is something there about vocal compared to visual. Some years ago while messing around memorizing/reciting pi, I always thought I imagined the numbers visually and recited from there. I'm bilingual and a friend asked if I can do it in my mother tongue. It was weird, I was surprised I was struggling. I definitely recite(in my head) in English, then I visualize the numbers than I translate.

It was surprising because when I was even younger I thought I had a photographic memory, I noticed it got weak over time and with memorizing some of pi I thought I was bringing it back. And here I find it was mainly vocal. With the points brought up here for oral tradition, it makes sense that vocal memory has stayed strong.

<comment><USER14> I wonder if it's mostly about the cardinality of the options.

Songs are made up of only a few discrete notes, but strung together, but visual memory doesn't really have a good analog. Pixels? That's not how we think. Maybe there is a way to remember a visual scene, the closest I can think of is the memory palace technique, and it's just damn hard to hone, but it really is effective.

I think the trickiest thing is error correction. In a song, a missed note is a riff, and likely close to the real note, in memory palace, there's a risk it's just way off and even that being way off fucks up the next step in recall, with no way to repair it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > she describes how the noblewoman would look down at the village during > dinnertime, to see which homes did not have smoke rising from the kitchen, > meaning the household had no rice to cook. She would then invite families in > need to work on her land so she could feed them.

What a wonderful person. I'm glad her work is being preserved and honored.

</comment><comment><USER18> >In one of Lady Jo's many anecdotes about Lady Jang, she describes how the noblewoman would look down at the village during dinnertime, to see which homes did not have smoke rising from the kitchen, meaning the household had no rice to cook. She would then invite families in need to work on her land so she could feed them. "Even the term 'superwoman' is not enough to describe Grandma Jang," Lady Jo says.

I'm extremely confused by this take. Nobles have an obligation to not let their cattle starve to death. This excerpt makes it sound like she's being charitable by letting her peasants plant, grow, and harvest the food that is then used to compensate them for their labor.

<comment><USER19> You're assuming that Korean political/economic system was the same as the one of Europe. It was not.

Nobles didn't own all the lands or people around them. Some of non-noble people owned their own lands, others didn't and had to rent lands from landlords.

So the story that you quoted means that Grandma Jang was generous to poor people who have neither lands nor money to rent lands, and allowed them to work on her lands.

<comment><USER18> How is that generosity and not exploitation?

<comment><USER19> Those who worked not just did the work but also got paid. That's what I assume. I don't really know what the truth was (nobody would know), but the intention of the story is that she provided a "job" to those poor people.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Any reference to the original cookbook (translated or not)?

<comment><USER21> Korean Wikisource: [https://ko.wikisource.org/wiki/%EC%9D%8C%EC%8B%9D%EB%94%94%E...](https://ko.wikisource.org/wiki/%EC%9D%8C%EC%8B%9D%EB%94%94%EB%AF%B8%EB%B0%A9)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Does anyone have a link to an ebook copy or scan?</comment>


Philae Lander Nears a Cosmic Touchdown - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/science/space/philae-lander-nears-a-cosmic-touchdown.html

<comment><USER2> Hats off to the team who made this work with the available power budget, considering the spacecraft was not really designed to go out that far away from the sun.

Both Rosetta and Philae would have been an excellent use case for nuclear batteries, which would have allowed the lander to send data back for decades. Granted, most of the science data can probably be gathered within the window we have now, but it would have been nice to have a longer-term sensor up there.

<comment><USER3> I had no idea this was the case:

> Scientists hope that Philae and its 10 instruments will conduct 64 hours of > work before its batteries drain.

I'd figured with all the effort to get it out there that it'd be set up to ride the comet down and give us a first-person view of what happens as it loops around the sun.

Such a pity.

<comment><USER4> The DLR article says that, if the solar panels work, it'll last a lot longer - until it gets too close to the sun and the heat gets too great (about 2AU):

[http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10081/151...](http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10081/151_read-12011/year- all/#/gallery/17045)

<comment><USER3> Ah, that's much better. Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Here's an amazing gallery of images from a distance of 10km: [http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/High...](http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Highlights/Top_10_at_10_km)

<comment><USER6> I love how the tail, or at least the coma is already projecting into space. I believe it's as far as Jupiter, but the most volatile components must be starting to vaporize.

The spectacle as it gets near the Sun will be gorgeus. And so it could be watching the tail slowy snowing again on the rock.

I wonder if it will break. Other comets are known to fragment in the hottest point. The "duck" shape suggest that's possible, but the perihelium is even longer than Earth's.</comment></comment>


Google internal server error (?) - <AUTHOR> https://www.google.com/search?q=695033 <comment><USER2> A much better headline would have been "Googling for 695033 results in an internal server error".

That actually sounds somewhat interesting, as opposed to the pointless transient noise generated everytime Gmail or GitHub go down for a few minutes.

<comment><USER3> Reminds me of the CBM BASIC bug where you would get weird behaviour (rather than SYNTAX ERROR) if you entered line numbers that didn't fit in 16 bits, but whose first five digits matched a number in the $8900-$89ff range.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> > "Our engineers have been notified and are working to resolve the issue..."

Their engineers are currently going to be receiving many notifications of this very, very odd bug!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> What the..?</comment>


Founders beware: accelerators offer upside, but only if you're ready - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/14/founders-beware-accelerators-offer-upside-but-only-if-youre-ready/

<comment><USER2> "I'm not sure who decided that three months was a magic number for accelerator programs."

That's kind of funny to read. I never thought about it before, but I suppose the others must not emphasize the origins of their features, which must in turn make them seem rather arbitrary.

The 3 month duration comes from the fact that YC was originally meant to be a summer program for undergraduates (<http://ycombinator.com/start.html>).

<comment><USER3> So did the other accelerators simply copy your model?

<comment><USER2> I wouldn't say "simply" because they did it at different times and with different degrees of fidelity, and many have now copied copies.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Having been through one of the smaller accelerators named in this pier I just want to say, amen. Nobody talks about the stress of being picked over by investors like a piece of meat, and of falling out of favor with the program's organizers, because you're not showing the traction in the first ONE or TWO months they thought you would.

For those who can handle the pressure cooker, a big payoff is possible. But yes, buyer beware.

</comment><comment><USER5> Without a doubt the proliferation of accelerators means a lot more opportunity for startups. But keeping in mind that these are for-profit enterprises is critical to success.

</comment><comment><USER6> I missed the bit about founders in the title and was wondering why would accelerators in a device not be able to detect up? The the dead rotation axis wouldn't interfere.

</comment><comment><USER7> Funding seems to be the only proxy for how we're judging accelerators, so some of this is expected. Think we'll see more and more companies joining that already have traction--because they can leverage the program better to get big rounds than someone at the mvp stage. Sort of a shame that is the goal.

</comment><comment><USER8> Good to mention market transparency after demo day. I hadn't thought of that. Though, once you build the prototype, you'll be looking for funding anyways.

Maybe it's just the most efficient form of presenting? I feel like the benefits at that stage really outweigh the risks.</comment>


Experience with the Mergenthaler Linotron 202 Phototypesetter (1980) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~bwk/202/summer.reconstructed.pdf <comment><USER2> Discussed a couple years ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10505349](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10505349).</comment>


iOS: Say no to storyboards - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@tsaizhenling/say-no-to-storyboards-3048538ec359#.5c4npnixk <comment><USER2> I've tried using Storyboards and Xibs in the past, but I think they're too annoying in practice for many reasons (some mentioned in the article):

\- Merge conflicts

\- Can't effectively search & replace

\- Slow to open

\- Can't inherit xibs / create subclasses of xibs

\- The properties that can be visually edited for a view are quite limited

... and in case a dev opts into auto-layout ...

\- Autolayout is like an extra magic layer

So whenever I have the chance, I just implement my views in code, doing all positioning in layoutSubviews. It's not _that_ much more work and it's easy to modify and reason about.

</comment><comment><USER3> I've never been a huge iOS developer - I've written a few apps and got them into the app store but never as a career.

I've always considered Storyboards to be the equivalent of using Dreamweaver. You can get by with it on small projects, but a much better product can be produced if it was just written by hand.</comment>


Ask HN: In SF for a month, where can I meet fellow developers? - <AUTHOR> Hi HN!
I'm a software developer from Europe, and I'm currently on holiday for a full month in San Francisco. This is my first time in California.
I've heard so much about the big companies here and also the startup culture, so I would love to meet other developers working here!
Do you have any recommendations on meetups/events/bars/etc where I could meet fellow developers?
Thanks! <comment><USER2> I am not really sure whether it's a great meet-up place, but I've always found it filled with interesting people and skillfully prepared libations: The Interval Bar at Fort Mason, the home of the Longnow Organization ([https://theinterval.org/](https://theinterval.org/)).

Events at the Computer History Museum are often worthwhile even though it means a trip down the Peninsula to Mountain View to visit. [https://www.computerhistory.org/](https://www.computerhistory.org/) The museum itself is interesting as well.

The Internet Archive ([https://archive.org](https://archive.org)) is home to an active community intent upon building an archive of information, especially digital information.

</comment><comment><USER3> I think that a good place to start is at meetup.com.

</comment><comment><USER4> Meetups are always good. If you're interested, the Twilio Signal Conference is this week. [https://signal.twilio.com/](https://signal.twilio.com/)

</comment><comment><USER5> Visit the Internet Archive! They do regular lunch tours on Fridays but if you call and tell them you'd like a tour they'll set something up!</comment>


Show HN: Conquer the learning curve of web development - <AUTHOR> http://owenfar.com/professional-web-developer/ <comment><USER2> My suggestion is to consider a more detailed author description because one of the reasons people buy books is based on expertise and the current author profile does not convey much.

That doesn't mean that the tone of the book can't be informal or enthusiastic or peer to peer. Consider the author profile and the book content to be separate content written for two different purposes and by 'different' authors.

Good luck.</comment>


China reclassifies dogs as pets, not livestock, in post-virus regulatory push - <AUTHOR> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-dogs/china-reclassifies-dogs-as-pets-not-livestock-in-post-virus-regulatory-push-idUSKCN21R1VI <comment><USER2> In the US they're classed as chattels, more or less the same as any inanimate object like a wheelbarrow.</comment>


Show HN: Detailed data on every cannabis retailer and producer in Washington - <AUTHOR> https://www.topshelfdata.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hi folks, I'm one of the founders. Happy to answer any questions. A few tidbits:

* The data comes from WA public records. Can you believe that every single plant, harvest, and retail transaction is not only stored (that's a law called traceability) but also made available as a public record?

* We have been live since January, 2017, so this is very new.

* The model is SaaS, we have several paying customers already.

* Most of our customers are cannabis businesses in the state, using the site to understand price, competition, and benchmarks (what products to sell etc.).

<comment><USER2> How do you feel about this data being recorded and available, considering existing Federal Laws supersede state and local laws, making everyone on here an admitted criminal, if the Federal Government chooses to enforce already existing laws?

<comment><USER3> Americans are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

<comment><USER2> Tell that to the ATF

> As provided by 27 C.F.R. 478.11, "an inference of current use may be drawn > from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled substance or a > pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time"

Therefore any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition.

[https://www.atf.gov/file/60211/download](https://www.atf.gov/file/60211/download)

Obtaining a medical marijuana card, or purchasing it recreationally is an admission of guilt as far as they are concerned

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting timing given that the Federal government has recently shared that they will "step up marijuana law enforcement". I wonder if some Fed might buy a subscription for the purposes of initial planning.

<comment><USER5> I assume it would be easier to get the data directly from the state government, right?

<comment><USER4> If it's aggregated from multiple places, probably not. Cross-agency requests, I imagine, aren't fun. Especially when it's potentially pissing off the receiver of the request. I assume Washington is big on "state rights". They would need to at some point if they planned on using it in court, but paying a small sum for already aggregated would potentially make the planning part faster.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I am working on a project processing public data and reselling it, similar to you. Is it legal to resell public information? What rationale did you use to defend paying for it? Also how did you arrive at/figure out your pricing?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the questions. My apologies for the slow response, HN is throttling my comments. Here we go:

1\. I'm no lawyer, but we did confirm with the state public records office that we can charge for this -- so yes, selling this data is legal. I think this is true for other public data sets as well, considering the numerous businesses that pull public records data, munge, and resell (e.g., background checks).

2\. The rationale for charging for it was simple: the data in its raw form requires processing that our customers can't afford to do. If you're a retail store, hiring a programmer or even Excel-savvy analyst is too expensive. These businesses are happy to pay a fee to access this data.

3\. Pricing: we spoke with numerous potential customers when developing the idea and product. Pricing is a part of the product, and was something we tested by asking for their tolerance.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm curious of why you offer a free tier instead of just a trial period. Seems like this would be pretty valuable data for other cannabis retailers.

<comment><AUTHOR> We debated this one quite a bit, and ultimately went with a free tier instead of free trial because: (a) it gives us public free content that can be used for SEO, and (b) reduces the barrier for trial and sign up.

Finally, the free tier is data from a year ago instead of the most recent publicly available data (2 months ago), so while retailers can get some benefit, the paid tier is much more fresh and actionable.

<comment><USER7> My mistake! I read that as they can get data for the last year, not that it was year old data.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is cool! Is similar data available for other legal states? Are you working on implementing similar services for those states?

<comment><AUTHOR> Traceability exists in all states where it is legal, so other states do collect this level of data.

However, Washington is the only state with an incredibly transparent public records law that makes this data available to the public.

Given that, and to answer your question: no, we do not plan on implementing this in other states -- but we do have some related cannabis industry software ideas that we will launch in a few weeks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> what kind of format does the public record give you?

Is it reasonable or do you have to scrape through and make your own JSON?</comment>


Reactive PostgreSQL for Meteor - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/numtel/meteor-pg <comment><USER2> If you're not using meteor, but are interested in using this in node, take a look at the library it's built on: [https://github.com/numtel/pg-live- select](https://github.com/numtel/pg-live-select)

At a glance it looks like it creates triggers on the fly and tears them down. I'm curious how scaleable this is, is trigger creation a locking activity in postgres?

<comment><USER3> Creating views and triggers on the fly does sound like insanity. There's got to be a better way.

<comment><USER4> There is: logical decoding [http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/static/logicaldecoding.ht...](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/static/logicaldecoding.html) I wonder why the author chose to waste time on this instead of doing things the proper way.

<comment><USER5> I'd guess ignorance? I'd never heard of 'logical decoding' before and the name of the feature doesn't lend itself to easy understanding.

That said, thanks for pointing this out - it looks like yet another very useful PG feature!

<comment><USER6> At times it feels as if the entire Nosql industry was created by people not reading the Postgresql manual.

edit: thanks for the link to logical decoding, looks very useful.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think it's great to see this. I was really impressed by the insight/design of allowing the user to specify the invalidation functions, rather than trying to solve the (very difficult) problem of automatically determining the exact set of invalidation criteria. It may be that the user can determine a better invalidation function anyway, because they have domain-specific knowledge (e.g. how often a table changes).

(I'm a meteorite, but commenting in my personal capacity)

</comment><comment><USER8> Whether this is the right approach or not, I'm glad to see people trying to make the meteor sql support happen. Many people aren't really to adopt Meteor unless it has sql support.

</comment><comment><USER9> There was (or is?) also fork of PostgreSQL which implemented streamed queries.

It was way ahead it's time, maybe it's dead by now. But they still have the site here, weirdly named TelegraphCQ: [http://telegraph.cs.berkeley.edu/](http://telegraph.cs.berkeley.edu/)

Direct link to 2.1 last version: [http://telegraph.cs.berkeley.edu/telegraphcq/v2.1/](http://telegraph.cs.berkeley.edu/telegraphcq/v2.1/)

<comment><USER10> Interesting... I'll take a look at this.

It would be awesome to write a Postgres extension in C to implement Live Selects directly. Due to this project's developmental legacy this was considered from the start but is definitely on my radar.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is a cool hack, but no latency compensation or database only on the server. I would rather use a package that adhered to the core principles of Meteor.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed. Can't wait for the baked-in psql support in Meteor.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Looks great! Does this have something to do with the official SQL support that Mateor has in the pipeline?

<comment><USER13> I don't think this was developed by MDG [1]. Just as amazing work though!

[1] Author - [https://numtel.github.io/](https://numtel.github.io/)</comment></comment>


EA exec jumps ship for Zynga - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2011/04/26/ea-exec-zynga/

<comment><USER2> Hiring top people from EA is precisely the wrong way to increase game quality.

<comment><USER3> You're looking at this backwards, this is good for EA. Of course its not going to help Zynga, but its going to clear out the cobwebs at EA and increase their quality. Out of those two producers, the one with greater potential to (and proven record at) creating high quality product is EA. I'm not saying its all been gold, but they actually try, and some of it has even been gold; that's much more than can be said about Zynga. Everyone high ranking jumping ship from EA to Zynga clearly cares more about maximizing profit than producing quality product.

I don't mean to imply that all game designer/devs should suffer for their art, or that Zynga doesn't have people who don't care about the craft, but seriously, this is Zynga we're talking about. The "fast-following", scamming, addict player seeking, facebook feed raping, watered down game developing, Zynga. If someone is willing to go to Zynga, they're probably the kind of person responsible for EA's criticized practices, quality escaped EA in spite of them, not because of them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I have to say that I have great respect for Zynga. They have overcome their roots in "Scamville" and built a growing business that now looks like the Facebook to EA's Google.

Despite the fact that I don't play any of their games I find myself rooting for their success since I'm very tired of the EA sequel factory.

<comment><USER5> But not of the Zynga clone factory.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Many Zynga rank and file employees and executives have come from EA's main office at Redwood Shores, good deal for Zynga.

</comment><comment><USER7> Flagged. Please keep gossip off HN.</comment>


Ask HN: Next Steps After YC Rejection - <AUTHOR> A large number of startups are going to receive a rejection notice from Ycombinator today. To quote Sam Altman, "Best of luck, and don't give up."
Many cofounders are looking at huge corporate salaries vs. barely making ends meet trying to start a company. There's a lot that they don't know and a lot places they could use a ton of help.
For everyone who doesn't make Ycombinator tonight, where are other places to get help as a startup? (More than just alternate incubators, though I'd love to hear about those as well) <comment><USER2> I think it's important to step back and ask yourself to objectively look at the bigger picture. Lots of people / companies probably applied as a way to jump-start their funding efforts, grow their networks, and learn from advisors. That sounds great but remember, objectivity...

1\. If you were accepted, you would not suddenly have more money in your business account overnight.

2\. If you were accepted, you would still have more effort to get through before meeting people

3\. When you meet these advisors and contacts, you're not immediately using them to their fullest benefits from day-0.

... _and then_ there's still the matter of not just learning what you're being taught, but executing on it correctly. That does not happen overnight through from a single email. That comes from adapting and evolving as an individual and team, regardless of if you're in a bootstrapped company, incubator/accelerator, VC-funded, etc. It's a process that takes time. Use that time wisely with what you have available and what you can make available.

</comment><comment><USER3> There are so many great resources. Being accepted by YC is not "make or break". If your business is viable and you work hard, you'll get there.

But every business needs guidance, we're all in this together, so I love this question.

If you're in the Bay Area, finding great startup advisors is not a huge task (outside of bay area, it may be more work, I don't know from experience). Either way, the goal should be to seek those with relevant experience, and just get in front of them however you can. I recommend the following as a start: \- AngelList (scout out advisors/angels in your relevant industry) \- FounderDating \- LinkedIn

Other notable accelerators/incubators: \- Techstars \- 500 Startups \- AngelPad

I'm not one for luck, so I like to say... Get to work, the world is ready for you!

</comment><comment><USER4> Chris Heivly, founder of MapQuest and The Startup Factory, is interested in talking to anyone who was rejected by YCombinator and wants advice or direction. He holds regular weekly office hours in half-hour slots, and a video chat might be a good start to getting on your feet again. If you are interested, please email email@example.com for further details.</comment>


You Are a Rogue Device (2013) - <AUTHOR> http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/you-are-a-rogue-device/Content?oid=18143845

<comment><USER2> Good reporting, though I wish the author wouldn't bury the most important paragraph at the end of a longish piece.

This is not a purely local issue. It's a coordinated Federal surveillance program masquerading as a local initiative.

      If federally funded, locally built surveillance systems with
      little to no oversight can dump their information in a fusion
      center—think of it as a gun show for surveillance, where agencies
      freely swap information with little restriction or
      oversight—that could allow federal agencies such as the FBI and
      the NSA to do an end-run around any limitations set by Congress
      or the FISA court.

<comment><USER3> How would one go about FOI requesting the location of all these devices?

<comment><USER4> Federal government will say it's a local issue, talk to SPD. SPD will eventually cite confidentiality agreements with Aruba Networks. When pressed, one of them will provide outdated and/or incomplete data citing jurisdictional boundaries and pleading lack of technical resources to adequately address the request.

They've already repeated the drone playbook, public apologies and assertions that only certain capabilities will be used.

<comment><USER5> Your answer sounds suspiciously like "give up before trying". I say the correct answer is try, and if you're thwarted, think about it and try some more.

If anyone is interested in getting involved, you can call or email the EFF. [1] They've done stuff like this before, and they'll help you get started. If you want someone else to get involved, donate to the EFF. [2] Or even the ACLU [3], because they'll eventually be the ones to defend some victim of the system.

[1] [https://www.eff.org/about/contact](https://www.eff.org/about/contact)

[2] [https://supporters.eff.org/donate](https://supporters.eff.org/donate)

[3] [https://www.aclu.org/donate/join-renew- give](https://www.aclu.org/donate/join-renew-give)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Google should follow Apple's lead and spoof the phone's mac address while wifi scanning to prevent this kind of tracking.

[http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ios-8-mac-address- randomization,...](http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ios-8-mac-address- randomization,news-18937.html)

<comment><USER7> Is no one else in the least bit cynical about the timing of MAC randomisation from Apple? Release iBeacon, then shut off an approach others could use to build a competing system.

<comment><USER8> I'm moderately cynical about Apple's motivations. I think they've done it because it helps them make money, not for any altruistic reason. Having this feature helps Apple sell iPhones to us, and the iBeacon platform to advertisers.

I don't think that makes a difference though, because Bluetooth LE beacons (iBeacons) are better in this respect - regardless of Apple's motivations.

If your Alice's iPhone senses Bob's iBeacon then no information is revealed to Bob about Alice - an iBeacon can't receive, they're transmit only [1]. It's only once Alice installs Bob's app that Bob can get an indication that Alice is near one of his iBeacons.

1\. [http://radar.oreilly.com/2014/03/ibeacon- basics.html#_iaW3P0](http://radar.oreilly.com/2014/03/ibeacon- basics.html#_iaW3P0)

<comment><USER9> > I think they've done it because it helps them make money, not for any > altruistic reason.

These are not orthogonal concepts.

<comment><USER8> You're right, I should have said: altruism was a secondary concern.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> If your wifi is on, cities are not the only people tracking your location. It's a huge industry - Euclid Analytics, Cisco, and others are providing stores with a customer's path, dwell times, etc. Connecting your MAC to your person is trivial with more than one visit to a store in which you pay with a credit card.

It should be noted that iOS 8 randomizes the MAC address during wifi probes, so with iOS 8 you will not be trackable unless you install the store's app.

<comment><USER11> You can massively fuck with stores trying to track people, and infect their databases with fake MAC addresses, using Pry-Fi - [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.chainfire.p...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.chainfire.pryfi)

<comment><USER12> "infect" doesnt quite seem to fit, but yeah +1 for Pry-Fi. I just wish it would let me set a specific MAC for a specific SSID. ie xfinitywifi will let you on if your mac is 00:11:22:33:44:55

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Reminds me of ctOS from Watch_Dogs.

In the game, the fictional Blume Industries sets up a massive, city-wide network, connecting almost everything to the central ctOS supercomputer. One of the ways they build public support for this system is by first providing free wifi to the public in and around Chicago.

I know this isn't perfectly analogous, but wifi networks popping up for ostensibly benevolent purposes and then being used to track people seems close enough to warrant a mention.

<comment><USER14> How old are you?

<comment><USER15> I'm not sure if this helps you out, but I'm 33, and it also reminds me of ctOS.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> This system was disabled.

[http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Police-deactivating- contr...](http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Police-deactivating- controversial-WiFi-network-in-Seattle-231692161.html)

[http://seattletimes.com/html/latestnews/2022269628_spdwirele...](http://seattletimes.com/html/latestnews/2022269628_spdwirelessxml.html)

<comment><USER17> Except they are still broadcasting SSIDs... so not so disabled.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Isn't it much more likely that they're building this network for their own internal needs? Police cars have computers, fire department personnel sometimes need to download building plans on site, etc.

<comment><USER19> I'm sure that is _part_ of what they are building it for. But given all the data from Aruba about the system's tracking capabilities, and the department's dodgy answers about its intended use, I think it would honestly be a stretch at this point to think that's _all_ they are building it for.

<comment><USER18> You can probably request a copy of their grant proposal via FOIA. Having seen similar grant proposals for other cities (admittedly not in a few years) I would guess that their primary rationale is ensuring connectivity for first responders even if the cell network is down due to a disaster or some other event. I would be surprised if they considered surveillance to be a factor.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> From the documentation for Analytics and Location Engine 1.2.1 (ALE):

 _Location API

This API retrieves Retrieves historical location objects for a specific MAC client. The last 1000 historical locations are stored for each MAC address. This API also publishes a location event if ALE receives an RSSI reading from a single AP for a station...._

The API appears to return an X/Y coord pair which is associated with a campus, building or floor map. It also returns an accuracy value for the XY pair.

I dug into this because I was curious if it was getting actual GPS coords but it looks like it's using access point data and floor maps and (now I'm guessing) it may be using multiple RF antennas per AP which lets it separate an area into pie slices. That and signal strength will give you not-too-bad location data.

From:

[http://support.arubanetworks.com/Documentation/tabid/77/DMXM...](http://support.arubanetworks.com/Documentation/tabid/77/DMXModule/512/Default.aspx?EntryId=13705)

<comment><USER21> Yeah, things like location engines aren't for an outdoor citywide deployment, they're really more for trilaterating your position within a controlled area so you can localize someone's device to one corner of the office. It also helps if you have information on the floor plan so you can adjust the signal strength for attenuation from walls -- that's the kind of precision you're looking at.

On a citywide level, though, you don't need that to get an idea of where people have been bringing their phones, just the detection by the access point in question is a major piece of information, readily placing you within a block or so of most APs. Of course, besides the wifi angle, the cell phone companies have something a lot like this too, and sometimes sell it or give it to law enforcement anyway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> > How well can this mesh network see you? How accurately can it geo-locate and > track the movements of your phone, laptop, or any other wireless device by > its MAC address? Can the network send that information to a database, > allowing the SPD to reconstruct who was where at any given time, on any > given day, without a warrant? Can the network see you now?

I feel like Betteridge's law applies here. Yes, it could. Maybe it does. Do you have any evidence of these claims? Nope.

> Note that he didn't say the mesh network couldn't be used for the > surveillance functions we asked about, only that it wouldn't.

Yes, that literally every enterprise access point in existence could be used for that type of surveillance, so of course he didn't say it couldn't be used for that. That would be lying. So what more assurance could we possibly have than "it wouldn't"?

<comment><USER23> I think there's a big difference between a large enterprise's access points and those that cover a city.

First off if your employer is spying on you, you at least have a chance to quit and get another job. Further that new job might not require that you move to avoid surveillance. Also many/most employers don't care enough about specifically where all their employees are to do such a thing. Finally a lot of the employers who do care enough have implemented ID badges. ID badges don't necessarily give you a happy feeling inside since they make it obvious that management doesn't trust everyone equally. But at least the tracking that they do is explicit: you know you're getting logged every time you badge through a door.

Imagine the outcry if a city implemented a badge ID system that you needed just to travel anywhere. That literally conjures images of "Papers, please" and the like.

The problem is that they have -- without any real, widespread public knowledge or approval -- implemented a small portion of a fairly draconian we-track-you- everywhere kind of system.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> A MAC address is NOT a 'fingerprint'. Anyone could broadcast any MAC address, so I can't imagine it holding up in court as evidence.

<comment><USER25> True, but that assumes a degree of technical fluency, which American courts have repeatedly failed to demonstrate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Ruckus Wireless can do this as well and works a bit better IMO than Aruba.

</comment><comment><USER27> The title needs to be updated to reflect the article date.

<comment><USER28> Ah yes. Thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is Detective Monty Moss. [http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MIg3We8iXbw/0.jpg](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MIg3We8iXbw/0.jpg) If you see him at a restaurant or shopping or out with the family, _politely_ approach him and _politely_ let him know that you don't appreciate his efforts.</comment>


Facebook gets into the meme-making biz with experimental Whale app - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/19/20972076/facebook-whale-meme-photo-making-app-npe-new-product-experimentation-ios <comment><USER2>
      One does not simply 'force memes' or 'make memes'.
        - The Internet</comment>


The Path - <AUTHOR> http://bhargreaves.com/2011/08/path/

<comment><USER2> "Paths" seem like the ideal organizing principle for lean web services. I think if my company made this part of our vocabulary, it would indeed make our processes more lean for improving UX, managing marketing and feature prioritization.</comment>


Review My App: WhoMails.Me. Scrape Your GMail Account For Contacts - <AUTHOR> http://whomails.me/

<comment><USER2> Without wanting to be too pedantic, I'd need to see a privacy policy before you get past the "A third-party service is requesting permission to access your Google Account." page.

I'm also not 100% what the content of the email you send me will be. A list of people who email me? What format will the export be in?

Nice landing page though!

<comment><AUTHOR> good call, I'll add in a TOS. In general, it's "we're not touching your data"

And you receive back a CSV of names/emails

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Doesn't GMail already allow you to export your contacts?

It also has a contacts api and IMAP support, so why do I need to use this website to scrape them? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by scrape?

</comment><comment><USER4> I could see this being really useful for contact emails addresses (like firstname.lastname@example.com). This would be perfect to pull out all those addresses of people that have contacted you to include in a newsletter or update.

</comment><comment><USER5> Cool. Small copy change you might consider is something like "We export your Gmail contacts. And email them to you." Maybe also a sample of what the email's going to look like.

</comment><comment><USER6> Looks good--and works! One quick piece of advice for users--if you use a separate email client and delete emails from your Gmail inbox after they're downloaded, using the default "Inbox" scraping option will only get you the emails you haven't yet downloaded. Instead, use "Sent Mail" or "All Mail". However, by and large, you'll still only get emails that you sent, not emails sent to you.

</comment><comment><USER7> How do I know you aren't storing my data long term?

Also what is the point in this when gmail already recognizes who I talk to often and adds them to my contacts list? I am just having a hard time understanding this.

</comment><comment><USER8> Really good idea.

Anyone know of good tricks to extract contact info from Outlook email? ( XObni is good; but it doesn't let you export the data atleast not in the free version)..

</comment><comment><USER9> Why?

</comment><comment><USER10> I like this but how can I do more than 5000 emails?

<comment><USER10> If I have an email sent by Person A to people B C D and E, and E is me, will this app also pull emails and names for B C and D? (as well as A)?

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I just get an error when I click grant access.

</comment><comment><USER12> simple = good.

</comment><comment><USER13> Nice!</comment>


Feds eye crackdown on digital coin offerings - <AUTHOR> http://thehill.com/policy/technology/344410-feds-eye-crackdown-on-digital-coin-investments <comment> dan-compton The problem with this kind of legislation is that it is unsustainable. The complexity and rate of emergence of digital markets will easily outstrip the governments ability to regulate them over the coming years. Of course, (slow) regulation like this will be disregarded by the community and progress will continue. It's possible that the rate of growth and profitability inherent to these markets will enable the market-builders to re-write government before government can write software to enable effective regulation.</comment>


The Economist endorses Barack Obama - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12516666 <comment><USER2> Even if you don't agree with The Economist, you have to admire its talent for making an argument. It's one of the few voices of reason in the global media circus; its coverage is always insightful and nearly always balanced; and, having read it, you come away with a much better understanding of the issues.

For anyone who appreciates good writing, their Style Guide is invaluable: <http://www.economist.com/research/styleguide/>

<comment><USER3> > its talent for making an argument

As usual the Economist says little with a lot of words. This particular piece is a shallow recitation of campaign impressions with zero actual policy analysis. You don't learn anything by reading it.

<comment><USER2> Quite the contrary: it has a reputation for conciseness and well-expressed, informative views. What would you have us read instead?

To quote its Wikipedia article, 'The publication boasts a tight writing style that seeks to include the maximum amount of information in a limited space. Atlantic Monthly publisher David G. Bradley described the formula as "a consistent world view expressed, consistently, in tight and engaging prose."[12]' -- <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist>

<comment><USER3> Find me one fact or analysis angle in that piece that the representative reader didn't already know. It's like getting Joe Blow's take down at the bar except with tighter prose.

<comment><USER2> It's purely an opinion piece, an endorsement. It summarizes the existing arguments for and against and comes to a logical conclusion. I, for one, didn't know that they conducted their own global presidential poll - <http://www.economist.com/vote2008/> I also wasn't aware so many conservatives had jumped ship, including 27 newspapers (last week's 'Lexington'): [http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displays...](http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?subjectid=3856663&story_id=12470555)

I read The Economist because I don't always have time to read entire articles about every little development on every issue. How many New York Times articles would you have had to read to gain as much information as from this one Economist piece?

Again, what would you have us read instead?

<comment><USER3> A breezy, superficial understanding of complex issues is worse than none at all. You'd be better off knowing that you know nothing rather than having an article like that represent your knowledge.

> what would you have us read instead?

Off the top of my head Stratfor covers similar territory as the economist, but much better. It also has its biases. For economic analysis John Maudlin's newsletters aren't a bad place to start. Go read one and see how much more information and analysis dense it is compared to the economist.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> "Our main doubts about Mr Obama have to do with the damage a muddle-headed Democratic Congress might try to do to the economy. Despite the protectionist rhetoric that still sometimes seeps into his speeches, Mr Obama would not sponsor a China-bashing bill. But what happens if one appears out of Congress? Worryingly, he has a poor record of defying his party's baronies, especially the unions. His advisers insist that Mr Obama is too clever to usher in a new age of over-regulation, that he will stop such nonsense getting out of Congress, that he is a political chameleon who would move to the centre in Washington. But the risk remains that on economic matters the centre that Mr Obama moves to would be that of his party, not that of the country as a whole."

Here's hoping the Republicans keep 41 seats in the Senate, or else the economy restrains the Democrats from doing too much damage in their likely unopposed 2 years in power.

<comment><USER5> Here's hoping the Republicans get the message, abandon the illiberal religious BS, and we can have proper debates about what sort of role the government should have in the economy. Yeah, right:-/

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> And from Nature,

"This journal does not have a vote, and does not claim any particular standing from which to instruct those who do. But if it did, it would cast its vote for Barack Obama."

Would any other respected British publications like to chime in?

</comment><comment><USER7> Nice that the Economist is endorsing Obama, but the major problem I see with him is that he wants to make alternative Energy the cornerstone of the American economic revitalisation.

I think that's wrong. Energy independence is a fine issue, but I believe that the new government should pay as much interest to the real advances in science that are coming.

The internet has opened up a new frontier for science. Not the little toys that allow you locate your friends on your mobile phones, but the more fundamental changes - milions of people can work on the same thing at the same time, knowledge can be available to everyone at no cost, communication can happen globally without any problem, and hardware is cheap and fast.

What this means is that humanity is about to make a new intellectual leap forward. It's not there yet because the tools are not yet available that actually allow it work efficiently, but facebook and future generations of such connectivity tools will make it possible.

When these methods are applied to biology or robotics, the combined intellectual avility of human beings made lead to some type of exponential effect that will finally allow us create things that we cannot dream of yet.

We are standing on the chasm of the unknown. We should be forging forward, looking for new things, not focusing on that that we know.

It's an adventure like the adventure of first flight. Governments should recognize this, and they should focus on non-commercial research that will take us to where we could be.

<comment><USER8> Wikipedia et al. work because they can be divided into a bunch of little orthogonal fiefdoms for a bunch of internet tinpot dictators. It's accretion, not collaboration. You can't crowd-source a rocket to the moon.

<comment><USER7> You may not be able to crowd-source a rocket, but you sure as hell can crowd- source a moon crawler robot. The size and skill level of the robot building community is amazing, and these people can only find themselves now because of the intenet. And only now is there so much information available for the new ones.

One guy writes the motion detectors, another writes the pan-tilt, everyone reviews everyone elses code and suggests improvements. If this were effective today, we could have giant leaps forward. Soon it willl happen.

<comment><USER8> You're talking about making a conventional device in an unconventional way. I'm talking about making something completely new.

Historically, groundbreaking scientific work has been done by one or a few extraordinary individuals (Einstein, Watson and Crick), and groundbreaking engineering work has been done by carefully selected groups led by an extraordinary individual (Oppenheimer, von Braun). I don't see how the Internet changes that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> _Conservative America also needs to recover its vim_

Until I read that I had no idea that "vim" was defined as such: vim -noun lively or energetic spirit; enthusiasm; vitality

<comment><USER10> The sentence is particularly acute if you adopt this interpretation of the word "vim:"

<http://www.unilever.ca/ourbrands/homecare/vim.asp>

It's time for Conservative America to clean house. Where did it go wrong? Entrepreneurs and startup enthusiasts should be falling over themselves to vote Republican. Speaking from the outside, it looks to me like the Republicans are on the verge of losing a generation of its strongest natural supporters.

<comment><USER11> "on the verge of"

Probably already happened.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I thought politics was a no-no here?

<comment><USER13> I suspect it's really more political debating on HN that's an issue. It's so close to the election most of us are likely looking at political news in another tab, anyways.

<comment><USER12> You're probably right. It was more meant as a subtle hint instead of the all too common "not hacker news" comments.

Besides, not all of us are from the US...

<comment><USER14> Neither's The Economist. ;-)

<comment><USER4> I love that magazine. It's hard to get such a global perspective from any other periodical.

<comment><USER3> It's very good for getting an easily digestible survey of world news, but the business and economic analysis articles are horrible. It's all so "pop" and way behind the curve if you read better newsletters. It's also annoyingly leftist and pro-war; they pushed hard for the Iraq invasion, for example.

<comment><USER15> "annoyingly leftist and pro war" - that's not a combination you hear every day.

<comment><USER3> It's not odd if you don't conflate the meaning of left and right with Democrat and Republican. The Bush administration has been solidly left.

<comment><USER16> Bush is No True Scotsman, apparently.

<comment><USER3> I'm not sure what you're getting at. Bush is a national socialist, and an imperialist. He fooled some conservatives in 2000 when he talked quite a bit of the talk, but that fell apart quickly.

In modern American history warmongering has overwhelmingly been the business of the left. Guns and butter and all that. Go count up military actions and pair them to presidents.

<comment><USER17> _Bush is a national socialist_

That's an interesting choice of words.

<comment><USER5> Maybe he's trying to qualify for Godwin's law.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> > _"If only the real John McCain had been running"_

That pretty much sums up why I ended up voting for Obama. McCain of 2008 != McCain of 2000, and the Presidential race was the lesser for it.

</comment><comment><USER19> It is easy to keep experts around and say things which people want to hear. May be Obama is doing that. It takes guts to say what you believe in like McCain has done on certain issues. That shows McCain will do what he is speaking currently once he gets in power, if Obama is just speaking what his experts tell him to there are lot of chances he might not do what he is currently telling, the reason he gets elected.

</comment><comment><USER20> Let's save the political stuff for reddit.

</comment><comment><USER21> Wait a minute, that's like nothing compared to Joe the plumber endorsing McCain. ;P

</comment><comment><USER22> I was actually under the impression the economist leaned towards the right.

<comment><USER5> > What, besides free trade and free markets, does The Economist believe in? > "It is to the Radicals that The Economist still likes to think of itself as > belonging. The extreme centre is the paper's historical position." That is > as true today as when Crowther said it in 1955. The Economist considers > itself the enemy of privilege, pomposity and predictability. It has backed > conservatives such as Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. It has supported > the Americans in Vietnam. But it has also endorsed Harold Wilson and Bill > Clinton, and espoused a variety of liberal causes: opposing capital > punishment from its earliest days, while favouring penal reform and > decolonisation, as well as—more recently—gun control and gay marriage.

[http://www.economist.com/help/DisplayHelp.cfm?folder=663377#...](http://www.economist.com/help/DisplayHelp.cfm?folder=663377#About_The_Economist)

<comment><USER22> just my impression from there steadfast support of US in Iraq. good to see they go both ways, its a great news mag that I love to read.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Hmmm... The Economist is a UK magazine, isn't it? There is a suggestion that another UK publication - The Guardian - helped win the election for GW four years ago when it asked its readers to write to American voters in swing states pleading with them not to re-elect Bush. If I recall correctly, many recipients were angry at this perceived interference in US affairs (from the former Colonial Masters, of all people!) and this may have persuaded them to vote Bush although initially they were wavering.

</comment><comment><USER19> One thing for sure we are not enough informed. Look at this comment where Tim O'reilly endorse Obama. How many of who support Obama know this?

[http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/10/why-i-support-barack- obama....](http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/10/why-i-support-barack- obama.html#comment-2044972)

<comment><USER24> Look, if you're going to diss Obama, do it with facts. Don't link to bullshit claims that have all been disproven. It's people like you who fuck things up for the rest of us. You're a shitty piece of scum. And yes, I think my saying that on HN is appropriate: you're pushing known lies on the rest of us. (Comparing Obama to Hitler? Honestly? That is, if you did indeed link to the correct comment, which I'll repost and debunk below.)

 _American turning it self into a third world country,_ I'd suggest you look up what exactly a third-world country is.

 _By Electing a man "Barack Obama" who straight out supporting KNowN Terrorist, this is just a Fact now_ No he hasn't.

 _Los Angeles Times has a video of Barack obama supporting a torrorist and toasting him, on Video_ Not quite, no.

 _To many facts there, THe left wing like Pelosi and many other Or trying to stop this tape from getting out,_ No, they haven't. If you mean Bill Ayers, Obama has addressed this matter specifically. He's hiding nothing.

 _If it was Hillary or JOhn McCain, you can rest assure this tape would already be out, But more facts MSM is suppressing this video,_ The video that has been on every news network? MSNBC had a story specifically about this.

 _Like so many third world Dictators in other country, Who control the Media, CNN, MSnbc , los angeles times, New york times, So many other Medias_ Yet... when people write good things about McCain, that's considered free speech? What?

 _WHo trying to elect a Man who supports Terrorist, Barack Obama,_ Still no.

 _No one calling Barack a terrorist, but he sure does support them,_ No he doesn't.

 _His Track record is sure proving this, ,, Rev Wright, Ayers, Rezko Barack Obama sure love surrounding his self with Crminals,_ Despite the Ayers claims being thoroughly debunked? Or the Rezko incident being entirely minimal? Or do you mean Wright, who Obama not only denounced but whom - in my opinion - actually made a good set of points in his speech?

 _Hitler started out this way, Going after the simple Young crowd, to elect them,,then after he is elected its to late, the country in turmoil, and lost, History has proven this,_ Every politician uses the same tactics. Lincoln did this. Washington did this. Sometimes people elected in times of crisis do good things.

 _Why do you think Barack Obama created his own Seal,_ You mean the seal of Ohio, which looks like an O?

 _Why do you think he is trying to make this country a Socialist country,_ By supporting the same progressive taxes McCain is on the record as supporting?

 _ALL the signs are there, Bias Media, criminal as friend,_ Huh. Sounds a lot like McCain and Fox.

 _the man has no real agenda_ The man with a 200-page documented agenda? Or McCain, whose entire site is becoming an Anti-Obama site with nothing Pro- McCain on record?

 _and for the simple fact, Barack Obama has his Own News Station, to get the lies out there,, THat News Station is Msnbc, Followed by CNN, the 2 most bias News media stations,_ Hmm. I remember an article saying Fox was the "most bias News."

 _by next year after Obama is elected, American will be in a Depression there will be food line, TO SHARE THE WEALTH, SURE SOUND LIKE RUSSIA TO ME, DONT THIS SOUND VERY FAMILIAR!!!!!_

Sounds kind of like FDR, the man who helped push America back in shape. I mean, Bush caused this depression.

But enough argument. You're not looking for argument. You're looking for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. You are scum. You are below awful. You're the man that makes the world worse. Flagged, and I'll be ashamed if you're still allowed to comment on this site after pulling shit like this.</comment></comment>