14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/16/14-year-old-boy-arrested-for-bringing-homemade-clock-to-school/ <comment><USER4> Since [1] arguably counts as significant new information [2], I guess we'll leave that one on the front page and demote this one as stale.

I don't feel strongly about this other than not having the story occupy more than one spot on the front page, so if people have strong objections otherwise, we can adjust.

1\. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10230696](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10230696)

2\. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10230555](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10230555)

</comment><comment><USER5> If anyone is actually surprised by the administrations intelligence - I should remind you of 3 events:

\- A teacher confiscates Linux CDs claiming that the student was essentially distributing illegal copyrighted software - because no software is free [1]

\- A system administrator was fired for installing/running seti@home on school computers. There is a lot of controversy about this case - but I read one news article (that I can't find right now) where the administration said they would have been ok with cancer research folding@home rather than searching for aliens with seti@home. This combined with the backpedaling of "oh actually he was a bad employee, stole things, and cost the school millions in extra in electricity costs!" makes me believe that they just wanted to use it as an excuse to fire him and make the position open for a friend/relative. [2].

\- Or an honor roll student suspended for buying candy from another student [3]. His statuses were only restored after it caught media attention.

I would go into my rant about the education system but you should just watch this video [4]

[1] [http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding- our...](http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids- back.html)

[2] [https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=5169](https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=5169)

[3] [https://web.archive.org/web/20080313141623/http://edition.cn...](https://web.archive.org/web/20080313141623/http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/03/12/skittles.suspension.ap/index.html)

[4] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U)

<comment><USER6> If public schools are going to succeed, then many states need to "catch up" when it comes to funding. More funding will attract more teachers, creating a stronger candidate pool.

If you look at the average funding per student by state, Texas isn't doing so hot [1], especially for being the second largest state [2]. There's definitely more to it than just funding, but I think that would be a good starting point.

[1] [http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational- leadership/may0...](http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational- leadership/may02/vol59/num08/Unequal-School-Funding-in-the-United-States.aspx)

[2] [http://www.ipl.org/div/stateknow/popchart.html](http://www.ipl.org/div/stateknow/popchart.html)

(edit) More recent funding figures, from 2013: [http://www.governing.com/gov- data/education-data/state-educa...](http://www.governing.com/gov- data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html)

<comment><USER7> People HATE TAXES. People HATE paying school tax when they don't have children in school or never had children in school.

We under value in society

1) Education (We make fun of smart people who lack social graces)

2) Science (Scoff at all science and under fund Space Programs)

I ran for local School Board in my city. We are a school district with over 90% qualify for free lunch and extreme poverty. Parents pick Charter School over Public Schools (But Charter Schools under perform on test scores and under pay teachers compared to Public Schools (Money goes to the top in Charter which gets 100% of the child's local funding)) My city per student was the state's lowest at $5,700. The next county over some districts were paying over $28,000 per student. My state has the greatest disparity between haves and have nots.

Our school board loves to point to Teacher Union and Teacher Pensions as the problem. How about just give us the money. We need a change in priorities and not freak out about taxes for education. Sadly I don't see this changing and I don't think funding is the number one factor for educational success but it is an easy thing to measure.

<comment><USER8> > We need a change in priorities and not freak out about taxes for education.

People don't freak out over paying taxes for education. Even if they don't have kids in the system.

They freak out over throwing money at a broken system and the solution isn't to throw more money at it.

Attach a specific dollar amount to a student. Allow that student to go to whichever school they want. End of story.

Stop forcing children to go to broken schools.

<comment><USER7> > Attach a specific dollar amount to a student. Allow that student to go to > whichever school they want. End of story.

Allow it to go where there is little to no public over sight, no public school board or checks and balances, under performing scores, teachers paid $20,000 less with no pension, and CEOs making millions. Charter Schools are a part of the problem with American education. Sure some Charter Schools are good so are some Public School but as a whole Charter Schools are not for America's children but for the non-profit and for profit companies that run them.

PUBLIC SCHOOLS are the back bone of our educational system and democracy. Sending to school that take monetary advantage of our tax money with no over sight is wrong for everyone but the people who get the money.

Who is running America's Charter School: [https://schoolfinance101.wordpress.com/2015/07/22/whos- actua...](https://schoolfinance101.wordpress.com/2015/07/22/whos-actually- running-americas-charter-schools/)

<comment><USER9> Public schools also do plenty of dumb things. It's not as though charter schools have a lock on this.

A lot of people want "vouchers" so that private schools are more affordable. And plenty of private schools have a good track record, while having similar per-pupil costs as public schools.

If it costs $1000/student/month irrespective of if a child goes to a public school or a private school, why does the state really care which one the child attends? Why not let parents choose the school?

<comment><USER7> Charter Schools = They take 100% of the money from the public school and the money follows the student.

> why does the state really care which one the child attends?

Well I as a tax payer cares. If those school fare even worst and the administration and CEO/President of the foundations makes millions at the expense of children there is a concern.

Public Schools work and have worked for decades. We have a problem with inner city schools and a big part is unfair funding, but killing public schools and give it over to various schools with no public oversight just government over sight is scary. We vote on our School Boards and Directors. We can protest and get Administrators removed. Can't do that to these Charters School. Also privatizing schools will make being a teacher an even worst job.

<comment><USER9> You're not making very coherent arguments. What's wrong with a voucher system whereby the PARENTS of the children being educated are the ones who determine which child the school goes to? Doesn't that make it very easy for the parents to shut bad schools down very quickly? It seems like that solves all the problems you're worried about, while also providing more choices to parents and students. What's the downside?

<comment><USER7> Voucher and Charter School are two different things. Charter Schools are taking over Public School System. Vochers are evil for many social reasons. I'll just focus on one.

So Vouchers really will be the new segregation tool for the 21st Century. Your money will be used to send kids to religious schools you don't like teaching Islam, Christianity in all its forms, or who knows what and if they want to teach the children ignorance and hate and you as a tax payer just flipped the bill for this and can't stop it. I can't see a good voucher system that would answer my fears of miss used funds spent on poor education back by people groups that will not teach based on various world views that are not politically correct and just wrong. Our Brain Drain in America will go into Nuclear Meltdown.

To quote the 2002 Supreme Court Voucher Dissent: Justice Breyer on Descent "... all religious institutions cannot be given equal opportunities to the government funding and trying to do so not only turns back the clock on the Constitution, but creates a powder keg in our society." [http://www.pewforum.org/2002/06/28/judgment-day-for- school-v...](http://www.pewforum.org/2002/06/28/judgment-day-for-school- vouchers/)

Back ground: I went to private school and graduated with a Theology Degree and worked as a Pastor for years. I absolutely know that many in the voucher movement see the Government footing the bill for their Christian Education. You have no idea how deep Crazy Christianity can get (Westborogh is just the tip of the ice berge). They will spew their version of crazy that they got with no academic or logically training to children with your tax dollars paying for it.

<comment><USER9> So the money for education can only be spent on the kind of education YOU like, and not the kind of education that the parents like? You do realize that's incredibly arrogant, right? You and other enlightened people know what's best, but everyone else who disagrees with you about what's best is unenlightened swine? That's tautological.

<comment><USER7> Your missing the point. They can spend their money where you would be mad. So if they go to a school where history is through the lens of white supremacy and teach that science is evil because it contradicts their narrow version of the Bible and that God created black people because of the curse on Noah's son for having homosexual sin with Noah your fine? By the way a LOT of people believe this especially in the south. (Also BTW Noah's son Cush who did this "looking on his father naked" the scriptures say they went to Persia and NOT to Africa but that is another matter of facts getting way to their fictionalized bibles)

Also show one example where vouchers BETTERED students education? It didn't in Switzerland it actually made their scores worse since 1992.

<comment><USER9> I am saying that if you apply that argument inductively, then nobody should be able to do anything because there will always be someone to object to it. Public money can't be used by anyone for anything because someone will have a problem with it. You do see how that could be, don't you?

I am in group X and I object to things that you value in group Y. You in group Y object to things that I, in group X, value. What do we do?

Once you have a particular group that claims to have the moral high ground for some nebulous definition of "the high ground" the whole argument is lost because so few people agree on so few things.

I get that creationists are annoying, but I'll give them credit for not demanding that science not be taught, just that they wanted their pet theory taught too. That looks a lot more reasonable (from a certain perspective) than the evolutionists who insist that evolution is the only possible explanation ever, with quite religious zeal, despite having only circumstantial evidence. Evolutionary science is nowhere near as rigorous as physics and won't be for thousands and thousands of years of highly accurate recordkeeping. At that point the creationists will have suffered a thorough defeat, but until then, well, truthfully the science isn't settled. At least to the degree of rigor that I would personally care for.

<comment><USER10> > I'll give them credit for not demanding that science not be taught, just > that they wanted their pet theory taught too

This was largely demonstrated to be a ruse by so-called "Intelligent Design" proponents in the Kitzmiller v Dover trial[0].

I would respectfully suggest that you haven't really looked into the evidence that carefully if you question the degree of rigor that underpins evolutionary science.

Large parts of evolutionary theory are indeed based on circumstantial evidence. But the _quantity_ of such evidence is so overwhelming[1] that questioning its explanatory power is rather foolish. It's the sort of evidence where coming up with any alternative hypothesis _besides_ evolution quickly becomes an exercise in futility. Unless, that is, you don't care if the hypothesis is testable or not, in which case creationists have many.

Moreover, evolution does _not_ only have circumstantial evidence. You and I are living through the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria - an evolutionary change that is being observed and documented as it occurs. Fruit flies from the same species have been split into physically isolated groups, allowed to breed over many generations, and subsequently reintroduced, only to discover that they had become reproductively isolated.

There's more evidence discussed here:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent)

Or here:

[http://amazon.com/dp/1416594795/](http://amazon.com/dp/1416594795/)

Or here:

[http://www.talkorigins.org/](http://www.talkorigins.org/)

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_Schoo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District)

[1] For example, here's Wikipedia's list of transitional fossils (so-called "missing links" between divergent extant species) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils)

<comment><USER9> Look I'm not suggesting that evolution is completely unfounded or anything like that. And I agree that we're witnessing it unfold with antibiotic resistance and the like.

But what I am saying is that physics has a lot more rigor for the claims by virtue of how it works, and what people are looking for there. Evolution is punctuated equilibrium and human beings haven't directly witnessed this to the same degree that people have in physics.

I think the direct witnessing aspect is important, even if others may disagree. The reason I think it's important is that there are other _possible_ though _highly improbable_ explanations for various physical phenomena we see on earth.

If there really was a "guy in the sky" he could have absolutely made a bunch of stuff and "planted the evidence" all over the place to fool people. But if also for some reason, he always handled the laws of physics just the way things are now, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

To me it's kind of like the people who suggest that we should try and see if reality is just a simulation being run in a computer. The odds -- at least in my mind -- are absolutely astronomical against. But just because it's a "crazy idea" and there's "no way" it could be true doesn't mean I get to dismiss it offhand and maintain my intellectual integrity.

<comment><USER11> > Evolution is punctuated equilibrium and human beings haven't directly > witnessed this to the same degree that people have in physics.

I don't think this is really true. For most important effects in large domains of physics, _directly_ witnessing the underlying processes is as impossible as directly witnessing the history of evolution (to the extent that "directly witnessing" is even meaningful -- on a detailed level, all witnessing other than of ones own internal subjective mental states is through several layers of indirection.) We witness them indirectly, through various media whose mechanism are explained by other well-tested scientific theories.4

> If there really was a "guy in the sky" he could have absolutely made a bunch > of stuff and "planted the evidence" all over the place to fool people. But > if also for some reason, he always handled the laws of physics just the way > things are now, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

IF there's really a "guy in the sky" exercising arbitrary power over the physical universe, even if he had _not_ always handled the laws of physics in the same way, we couldn't necessarily tell the difference, since he would also have the power to make it so that our perception of evidence we examine at any given time (including our present recollection of what we might have done in the past) is always consistent with physical law always having been the same, even if it wasn't, and even if our actual observations in the past would have differed.

<comment><USER9> How is the idea that our whole universe is merely a simulation inside someone else's computer practically much different than the idea of there being a "god"? From a certain perspective, they're one and the same. They can both change the universe arbitrarily either by changing the rules of the simulation or the state of the simulation.

I agree that both are incredibly unlikely, but you can't say for certain that it is not so.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This hits way too close to home. Not because I have brown skin, or because I've ever been arrested for making "a bomb" that is not a bomb, but because when you're that age you're constantly surrounded and disciplined by people who don't understand you. Or what you're doing. Or why it's cool. I'd be willing to bet part of the reasoning around his arrest is, "Why would a student need to make his own clock?"

I wish I could reach out to the boy and say, "Hey, it gets way better. Later on you can surround yourself with people who not only understand but respect you. You get to spend all day building cool stuff, and you actually get paid very well to do so."

<comment><USER13> Exactly. To quote the Police spokesman; "He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation" and "The concern was, what was this thing built for?"

Why shouldn't he make his own clock?! Why does there need to be a 'broader explanation'? How can one develop an interest in anything if you must first provide an adequate explanation? _sigh_

<comment><USER14> And those guys learning to fly the planes without the landing, why can't that just be an interest! With terrorism, if you want to avoid false negatives, you are going to have a lot of false positives.

NB I totally agree it would be a douche move to charge this kid with some BS, but investigating unusual behavior is much more understandable.

<comment><USER15> Right, but this is a child who is an American citizen, not a Saudi who's been in the country for a few months.

I mean, I can't imagine what kind of monster automatically jumps to bomb when a kid makes a clock. Is that how we want to live, constantly being suspicious of everyone different?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Apparently the authorities have determined that the best way to stop terrorism is to discourage any manifestation of personal intelligence, so that the population turns into mindless sheep. "If you don't know how to make a clock, you won't know how to make a time bomb" is their reasoning.

It is seriously disturbing.

I am reminded of stories of kids opening a command prompt and being accussed of "hacking", only this is a far more extreme case.

<comment><USER17> "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor)

<comment><USER18> Stupidity does not adequately explain why they are considering bringing charges of a "hoax bomb", or sent this letter home with the other students: [http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Do...](http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Domain/9/ParentLetter_SuspiciousLookingItematMacArthur.pdf) [PDF] Therefore, malice.

<comment><USER19> "I recommend using this opportunity to talk with your child about the Student Code of Conduct and specifically _not bringing items to school that are prohibited_."

As a parent, can I see the list of "items... that are prohibited"? I'd be pretty shocked if "clock" is actually on there.

<comment><USER12> That's the crazy part to me. They _still_ seem to think and act as if it was a bomb.

<comment><USER20> Remember the Boston Lite-Brite thing? (A more legit incident, since apparently quite a few people were spooked by the devices, but still a case where the authorities over-reacted and refused to back down).

Sticking to the line that something was a 'bomb hoax' keeps the responsibility with the accused: _they_ shouldn't have perpetrated a bomb hoax; not _we_ shouldn't have over-reacted to an innocuous object.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The real question here is: how can we help this kid? I'm not talking about from the legal perspective, but rather what can we (me, you, the larger tech world) do to make it so that this kid and others like him keep tinkering. He needs to know that what he built wasn't wrong, it was awesome.

<comment><USER18> Offer support: [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ws7e8WyQvrsLfhSFvdGot3n9NWK...](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ws7e8WyQvrsLfhSFvdGot3n9NWKfY3XLPBgbHaZDy3k/viewform?c=0&w=1)

Sign up to be notified when some plans are made: [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1zCtwhsEh_zB4PkuwlgAVZRTFV4I...](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1zCtwhsEh_zB4PkuwlgAVZRTFV4IxueXZmvrBb-0VjC4/viewform)

<comment><USER22> Perhaps we can all pitch in on an airplane ticket to someplace he can get a tour of a facility where people like him are valued and rewarded. SpaceX? Mountain View? Cape Canaveral?

Also, if/when he considers higher education I'm sure there are plenty of alumni who could consider opening doors for him.

<comment><USER23> He's been invited to the Whitehouse!

[https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/644193755814342656](https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/644193755814342656)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> A story.

So, this thirteen year old kid with a Syrian father once got flagged up by Hewlett Packard because he was ordering electronic components. I'm sure you can imagine what happened next...

Yeah, Bill Hewlett offered him a summer job, he got hooked on making stuff, wound up founding a company out of his garage with his buddy Steve Wozniak, and created the biggest electronics company in the world.

Thank goodness he never took a clock he'd built into school.

<comment><USER25> _Biological_ father. His (adoptive) father was white, and Jobs _didn 't look middle eastern_, the key part. There's a whole spectrum of skin tones within ethnicities that affects how you are treated in the US more than where your parents originate.

<comment><USER26> > Jobs didn't look middle eastern

Jobs didn't look _stereotypically_ middle eastern.

<comment><USER27> > Jobs didn't look stereotypically middle eastern.

No kidding. Many people in the Middle East are completely "white", by every definition.

In fact, it's amusing that the word "Caucasian" has been corrupted into a euphemism for "white", given where the word comes from....[0]. (Most people who are Caucasian aren't even white!)

While we're on the topic, the most pale and fair-skinned people I've met in my life were not European; they were Indian (Kashmiri). People have this notion of what regions stereotypically map to which skin tones, and this doesn't actually reflect reality at all.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus_Mountains](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus_Mountains)

<comment><USER28> For added comedy points, the word 'aryan' means Indo-Iranian, at least according to Tolkien, who I suspect knows a thing or two about the meanings of words. [http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/i-have-no-ancestors- of-...](http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/i-have-no-ancestors-of-that- gifted.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Things are so different now. When I was in high school, all of the following were common:

\- Boys carrying pocket knives/hunting knives.

\- Boys with firearms in their cars/trucks so they could go hunting after school.

\- Access to a wide variety of chemicals in chemistry class.

\- Access to a wide variety of electrical and electronic components in physics class.

\- Access to a wide variety of power and machine tools in industrial arts/vocational classes.

<comment><USER30> I regularly brought my pocket knife to elementary school. Nobody blinked an eye. It was dull because I used it for digging and prying more than for cutting, but nobody would have cared even if it was sharp.

<comment><USER31> Back in my day, I'd see friends with their glocks at school. Teachers didn't even bat an eye.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> This whole situation screams a breach of the poor boy's liberties.

According to TEX. FAM. CODE §51.095 [1]:

In order for a custodial written statement to be admissible, the following sequence of events must occur: 1) the officer must take the child to a magistrate; 2) the magistrate must then inform the child of his rights to remain silent, to have an attorney appointed and present during questioning and to terminate the interview at any time; 3) the child must knowingly, intelligently and voluntarily waive his rights; 4) the officer may then take a statement from the child; and 5) upon completion of the statement, the child shall be taken before the magistrate again and sign the statement in the presence of the magistrate (and outside the presence of the officer), who will then certify the statement.

This makes me sick that this kid was seemingly wrongfully interrogated. Sad to see that 'doing science while brown' results in him being treated as a second class citizen.

[1][http://www.tmcec.com/public/files/File/Course%20Materials/FY...](http://www.tmcec.com/public/files/File/Course%20Materials/FY13/Judges/Tyler/Johnson%20-%20Juvenile%20Statements%20for%20Magistrates%20-%20BINDER.pdf)

<comment><USER33> How in the unholy bleeding _fuck_ is a child supposed to understand the ramifications of the right to remain silent?!

<comment><USER34> Well even if he did it wouldn't matter much. 5 police officers, multiple school officials in a room, he's the only child. And effectively being bullied, manipulated, into feeling like a guilty sack of shit that should count his blessings and admit their version of his intent and give thanks and apologies. Par for the course. Public school systems are ran by political patsy thugs when you inspect the few ranks below the top.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Go into any Electrical Engineering department at any university and you'll find plenty of students with boxes filled with circuit boards and electronics.

Everybody who's played with electronics knows that stuff is brittle and needs to be protected carefully. One wire coming loose renders your entire work obsolete and unlike software, there's no debugger to tell you where you potentially screwed up...

Racial profiling and ignorance at it's finest.

<comment><USER35> That's not even the issue to me. It's like fine you "suspected" it. How difficult was it to not suspect it anymore? Like did the arrest and the accusations need to happen. It's almost like attempting to traumatize the kid and his peers for no good reason and for what? Security theater? Because he was brown or a Muslim and did not know that brown or Muslim people should not bring electronics that might be suspected with them to school because they should fear being suspected? Perhaps we can excuse his ignorance for not being old enough.

<comment><USER36> > How difficult was it to not suspect it anymore?

Excellent observation. It's really about people conditioned to follow scripts.

These people were missing the "de-escalation script" in which a teacher laughs, puts their hand on their forehead and says,

        "Wow, That scared the shit out of me for a minute there.  Now let's show you how to make a tidy wooden box for your amazing clock project."

<comment><USER35> Well I guess they could logically suspect that he might be doing something more sinister than just bringing around a clock project. So fine get a court order to search his house while keeping him detained at school. Find nothing. Apologize and let him go.

<comment><USER37> I have a feeling a lot of this behavior from teachers and school middle management is driven by fear of having exactly the same sort of irrational punishment come down on them.

Didn't treat the clock like a bomb? Might get fired. Did treat it like a bomb, turned out to be wrong, apologized? Might get fired. Did treat it like a bomb, turned out to be wrong, uhhh... maybe if I get the police involved I can make this _not my fault_?

Reasonable errors on all levels are often greeted with harsh punishment and sometimes demonization by news media. It's not just kids who are subject to it. People are _rightly_ terrified of being blamed for errors that _anyone_ could make, and their behavior makes a lot of sense in that context.

<comment><USER34> It all stems from not having a backbone. Less weasels, more passionate people with some step in their walk. But all the political bullshit that educators have to waft through kills most passion and flare to go against the grain, to do what they feel is right. Unfortunately the nazi-effect is in full swing for most salaried office workers. No one wants to get fired, so everyone just obeys arcane rules and doesn't do anything the least bit outside the box. It's basically raining with grey skies every day.

<comment><USER37> It doesn't help that the consequences of losing a job are substantially higher in the US than in most other advanced economies. _And_ we're easier to fire, on top of it[0]. It's harder to take a stand over small(ish) things when it can bring financial ruin for one's family.

[0] yes, even many teachers. The power of unions in preserving teachers' jobs is highly regional, and often exaggerated.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> > Children are encouraged "specifically [to] not bring items to school that > are prohibited."

What, clocks? Or the NASA t-shirt he was wearing? ([https://i.imgur.com/PMgDR7m.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/PMgDR7m.jpg))

<comment><USER39> Why is he handcuffed?

<comment><USER40> IANAL, I guess it's simply a mandatory protocol for arresting somebody. US police apparently handcuff every people they arrest[1].

[1] [https://www.quora.com/Why-do-American-police-always- handcuff...](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-American-police-always-handcuff- people-they-arrest)

<comment><USER41> Its for their safety so you cant fight back when they are beating / tasing / shooting you.

<comment><USER34> The handcuffs are actually helpful so they can't claim you punched yourself.

<comment><USER38> You'd think.

[http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/handcuffed- black-...](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/handcuffed-black-youth- shot-himself-death-says-coroner-n185016)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> President Obama has extended an invite to Ahmed to show his clock off at the White House: [https://twitter.com/potus/status/644193755814342656](https://twitter.com/potus/status/644193755814342656)

<comment><USER43> Shouldn't he have done proper presidenting to make sure this didn't happen? I see only PR here.

<comment><USER21> The President doesn't control what officials in Texas do... But this is a cool move. It's PR, but it's the best kind of PR, especially from the President that called on the country to become a "nation of makers".

[https://www.whitehouse.gov/nation-of- makers](https://www.whitehouse.gov/nation-of-makers)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> This hits close to home for me too, and I am as WASP-y as it gets.

Just over a year ago I was flying to the middle of US with some prototypes for an agriculural automation system in my checked luggage. Going through DTW and O'Hare to my final destination was fine and went without incident. On my way back, again with a checked luggage bag of protypes and tools, this little airport in northwest IA got evacauted and I was very forcibly questioned about why I was flying with these things.

What struck me was that the larger airports (DTW and O'Hare) couldn't have cared less, but this 5-gate airport in IA freaked out that somebody flying with three laptops in his carryon would also have a bag of tools and equipment.

The best part out of all of this was after everything was cleared up, I asked the head TSA person what I should do in the future to prevent getting searched and interrogated. His answer was "just open your bag and show the luggage agent what is in it." I still don't understand how that would help - <USER2> envision that the conversation would go something like "Hi, these look like pipe bombs. They aren't. You can trust me." and I would immediately be detained.

(Edited for formatting)

<comment><USER45> At the age of 14, I had to fly solo from LGA to ORD for my uncle's funeral. I had a one-way ticket purchased 18 hours before the flight.

We all assumed that because of my age and appearance it wouldn't be suspicious.

Wrong! I was stopped and questioned for an hour before being allowed to board.

<comment><USER44> I can only imagine the effect of an interrogation like that on a 14yr old. I was 24 and was completly drained by mine.

I was questioned by each of the TSA, the local sheriff, and the plane's pilot and an airline rep. Three different interrogations all asking the same questions just to determine if I was going to be allowed to fly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> QOTD from dallas news article: [http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community- news/northwest-dall...](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community- news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20150915-irving-9th-grader-arrested- after-taking-homemade-clock-to-school.ece)

"He's vowed never to take an invention to school again." what a place of learning!

<comment><USER47> That's always the lesson from these sorts of things: don't try, don't explore, or possibly don't trust people in authority to know anything.

<comment><USER48> Which is a double whammy considering all of the other ways schools crush enthusiasm and willingness to explore. Because grades are a measure of "achievement" that discourages people from exploring new subjects or taking challenging courses outside their comfort zone, since that could lower their GPA. And because all course work factors into your grade, not just your ultimate competency in the material, that creates even more incentives to not try anything new. Struggling with new material for even a week or two could irreparably harm your GPA.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> What the hell is a fake bomb? How does a schoolteacher know what a "bomb" looks like? Are we talking about an IED here? That could be literally any fucking thing.

I really doubt that this clock looked even remotely like any of the industrially made ready-to-use explosives.

Sometimes I can't help feeling like some people should be forcibly removed from the gene pool.

<comment><USER50> The ignorant portion of our society thinks bombs have flashing lights and tick thanks to Hollywood. In reality anyone wanting to do harm is not going to make their bomb noticeable.

It reminds me of the Aqua Teen bomb scare back in 2007 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scare)

<comment><USER49> Even then, for an IED to actually be of any use it needs to have an explosive compound, likely in a container of some kind.

Anyone with half a brain would understand that you can't just magically make circuitry explode. That's a whole new level of ignorance, they teach this stuff in elementary school for gods sake.

<comment><USER51> > Anyone with half a brain

That's the problem right there. These people have let their common sense be overtaken by their sense of fear, they're so afraid they aren't thinking.

That's why going after a 9 year old or MIT student with a t-shirt[0] makes sense, because they literally aren't thinking straight because they're so convinced there is a threat around every corner (thanks mass media!).

[0] [https://boingboing.net/2007/09/21/mit-student- arrested.html](https://boingboing.net/2007/09/21/mit-student-arrested.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> People are so worried about terrorists. Guess what: they won! If you don't believe me then try getting on a commercial flight, or try bringing a cool electronics project to school some time.

The _hoax bomb_ charge that they are still considering doesn't make sense to me. As someone who has seen a lot of improvised explosive devices[0] "hoax" means something very specific. I occasionally encountered hoax devices which were deliberately placed to monitor our response. Finding one meant you could be sure you were on camera. Here the police seem to use "hoax" to mean someone got scared of an empty cardboard box, or in this case a cool electronics project. The difference is intent just like selling oregeno or baby powder can get you in trouble for selling drugs if you are portraying it that way. Having something suspicious means it should be investigated, but it shouldn't be a crime unless it is intentionally portrayed as an illegal object.

[0] Roughly 100 in Baghdad in 2005.

</comment><comment><USER53> Of course the reaction to this is completely insane but what's even sillier is that they're continuing to assume that real threats would be things that they can see. If someone wanted to blow up a building they could hide a bomb in a backpack among hundreds of others and never show it to anyone.

It's the same crap they pull at the airport where you _must_ throw out your bottled water; and then their solution is to toss this bottle, which was classified a minute ago as a serious threat, into a pile of other unverified "threats" in the middle of a densely-populated area of the airport. How this kind of thing has gone YEARS without any serious backslash is amazing to me.

It is so out of hand. While certainly bad things have happened and could happen, statistically modern society is pretty safe and we all have to stop being so damn scared of every little thing.

<comment><USER54> I think the liquids ban is dumb, but given that it exists, throwing confiscated liquids into a bin is completely reasonable.

It's one of those weird game theory things. Your goal is to prevent dangerous liquids from being brought onto planes, but you can't reasonably tell them apart from other liquids, so you ban all liquids. Because it's banned, you can be reasonably sure that nobody is going to try to bring dangerous liquids through security in the first place. (Not because people always obey bans, but just because they know it'll be confiscated.) So you can be confident that all the confiscated liquids are not dangerous, and it's safe to just throw them in a bin. Yet you still need to confiscate them if you want to keep people from bringing the dangerous materials through.

If someone wants to blow up a security line, there are much better ways to do it than allowing their liquid explosive to be confiscated, so you can be pretty confident that nobody is going to attack the system that way either.

<comment><USER53> The ban means little because the punishment is nothing. If I want to bring something bad on board, there are two outcomes: I succeed, or I don't, and maybe I have to endure a brief scolding. The difference now is that if I fail, I know my mixture will be stuck in the middle of a huge crowd of people for who knows how long, probably giving me time to go far away.

The decision to throw all liquids into a bin has _created_ a danger that would not have existed otherwise, which means the confiscations have lowered security.

And collectively, unnecessary "security" measures slow down security lines, increasing the probability that more people will be in them and increasing the temptation to target security lines at all. The real goal should be to move people through so efficiently that there is barely a "line" to target in the first place, much less a massive crowd.

<comment><USER54> What danger is created that wouldn't exist otherwise? If people are bringing explosives through and they're being confiscated and thrown in a bin, then without the confiscations those explosives would be making it onto airplanes instead. Having them explode in a bin would be _much_ preferable to having them explode on an airplane.

Again, I don't agree with the liquid ban, but it's a problem with the goal, not a problem with the methods. There's no real evidence that liquid explosives pose a threat that needs to be countered. However, if you take as a given that you're tasked with stopping them, the system as it's set up is a decent way to go about it.

<comment><USER53> The danger is that, thanks to the act of throwing everything into a bin, there is now a practically-guaranteed way to leave a dangerous substance in the middle of a very large crowd and walk far away with no questions asked.

If the person's goal was to bring it on a plane, they're suicidal so they probably don't care if it accidentally blows them up in the security line instead.

If instead they expect to set it down and walk away, they can do that anywhere (even if they clear the checkpoint without having their bottle taken). The difference is that the added "security" has given them a much more effective target than they could have anywhere else.

Before the ban, it was always possible for someone to do either one: get on a plane, or set down an object and walk away. It wasn't happening, which means the old security precautions were just fine. And if it had happened, there probably would have been security camera footage of one suspicious individual setting down an object instead of dozens of suspects throwing objects into a bin.

<comment><USER54> You're not going to be throwing very much in there. I don't think a bottle full of liquid explosives is going to do much.

I don't recall security lines getting noticeably worse after the liquid ban was enacted. It doesn't take up much time relative to the whole process.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> You can't legislate intelligence. Yesterday I went to my daughter's school's open house. When I entered, I was cornered by an administrator and told I had to sign some paperwork before I left. It was the computer policy. After I signed it, the admin said my daughter had to sign it too. She's 4.

<comment><USER56> The intent is not to legally bind her, which it obviously wouldn't. Usually the idea of having a child sign too is the idea having a child explicitly agree makes them more likely to be invested in complying. Whether or not there's any evidence that works, I don't know, but it's not quite as stupid as it might seem at first glance.

<comment><USER57> It is as stupid as it sounds. 4 year old will listen to instructions and if they disobey you take away toys or have silent time, etc.

But signing something? That's just really stupid. It's not enforceable and not even understandable.

<comment><USER58> While the scenario described does sound ridiculous, I disagree that it's "not even understandable." (My understanding is that you meant the four year old wouldn't understand?)

Many toddlers younger than three could grasp the idea of signing something as a promise to do that thing in the future. A three or four year old could easily understand it.

<comment><USER57> sorry I meant not understandable as a blanket policy especially since this is at a school.

I would expect the school (being a place with lots of teachers) to understand that you get the parent to sign the document - with legally enforceable terms that the parent is responsible for whatever the kid does.

That's what a kindergarden - grade 8 elementary school field trip permission form looks like!

I'm sure they've made and processed hundreds of thousands of these forms before. It's just not understandable why they wouldn't do something similar with this open house.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> > The newspaper quoted a police spokesman, James McLellan, as saying that > Ahmed never claimed his device was anything but a clock, and the police have > no reason to think it was dangerous.

But officers still did not believe Ahmed was giving them the whole story.

"We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb," Mr. McLellan said. "He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation.

"It could reasonably be mistaken as a device if left in a bathroom or under a car. The concern was, what was this thing built for? Do we take him into custody?"

Duh, the thing tells the time. And are they saying that if I don't explain why I made something it can be presumed to be a bomb? (especially given "and the police have no reason to think it was dangerous.")

<comment><USER60> >"He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation."

Did it really need a broader explanation? It's a clock.

<comment><USER61> People tend to assume that everyone else thinks like them. Because the arresting officer couldn't wouldn't build a clock for the enjoyment of learning (as opposed to some "broader purpose" like blowing up a building), then nobody else should either. Simple explanation, but likely true.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Stupid kid confused school with a place that supported learning and curiosity.

I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't make it through high school today.

<comment><USER63> I didn't. Growing up with access to the worlds largest library makes high school even more painful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> It is definitely profiling and I bet his race had a lot to do with it.

But I think the same thing would've happened if I had brought such a device to school - having been a super dark dressed goth in school, the fear would've been it's a bomb.

Schools are generally very very extra worried about everything these days, suspending him was unnecessary but with it only being three days I don't see it being a terrible thing. The record will get set straight.

So then this just falls back to being unfortunate racial profiling.

<comment><USER54> The suspension is pretty minor. Dumb, but whatever. At that age I'd have been happy to stay home for three days.

But there's so much more here. He got _arrested_ and put in _juvenile detention_. He was interrogated by the police without his parents being informed.

There's no excuse for this. The police involved should lose their jobs and spend some time in jail themselves. Not a lot, but perhaps a couple of days will get some of their colleagues to look up "probable cause" and "civil rights." The principal should lose his job as well, since he is _clearly_ not mentally competent to supervise children.

<comment><USER65> > He got arrested and put in juvenile detention. He was interrogated by the > police without his parents being informed.

This behavior happens _ALL THE TIME._ The police routinely will get away with what ever they can to get a conviction. The law is complicated and most people don't have a lawyer on retainer.

The police aren't your friend, and you gain _NOTHING_ by talking to them.

<comment><USER54> I wonder at what age a parent should have The Talk about shutting up and asking for a lawyer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> If you're angry with the school's horrible reaction to this, let Jose Parra, [http://www.irvingisd.net/Page/3010](http://www.irvingisd.net/Page/3010), know: (972) 600-5001 / firstname.lastname@example.com. He can fire the principal of that school - Dan Cummings

<comment><USER67> Hey they were recently acknowledged for their use of cutting edge technology!

[http://www.irvingisd.net/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&Domain...](http://www.irvingisd.net/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&DomainID=4&ModuleInstanceID=7900&ViewID=047E6BE3-6D87-4130-8424-D8E4E9ED6C2A&RenderLoc=0&FlexDataID=8876&PageID=1)

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> I think we're making too big of an issue of this. The trial has already taken place and the boy was found to not float... so it turns out he must be guilty.

God forbid that an officer drops his walkie talkie and discovers that IT TOO IS A POTENTIAL BOMB! I mean, it has wires and circuits...

The ignorance here is astounding. I suppose he's lucky they didn't also try him as a warlock for summoning electricity from a magical box.

</comment><comment><USER69> That letter from the school just adds insult to injury.

> talk with your child about the Student Code of Conduact and specifically not > bringing items to school that are prohibited

Since when can you not bring a clock to school?

<comment><USER70> If the school and the police had acted in the correct way this would be no big deal. Hey, we have a device here that could be a bomb. Police show up, call bomb specialist. Bomb specialist laughs in a few peoples faces, the school apologizes, the kid keeps tinkering.

But no they had to go and dig in. Which makes this really wrong on their part. I hate it when organizations take a stance around stupidity.

<comment><USER71> Or even better- start by quietly calling him to the principal's office. Ask him about his clock. Tell him people were thinking he might be wanting to pull some bomb pranks, and that would be a very bad idea. Ask him to tell his teachers the day before the next time he wants to show off his gadgetry. Send him back to class.

<comment><USER72> Or don't do that, either, because it is not right to assume people are going to pull off bomb hoaxes. (Doubly so when the only real reason for the suspicion is skin color.)

<comment><USER70> Yeah but you also don't want to be the admin at a school with a bomb where there were "signs a student was creating bombs before he went ape shit". I agree with the color statement, but not addressing the issue at all can be just as bad as an overreaction.

<comment><USER72> Except there were no such signs, therefore _let 's not be jerks to a kid_.

<comment><USER70> Obviously someone thought there was a sign, even the teacher told him not to show it to anyone else outside that class. I think saying that a homemade clock isn't a sign is greatly underestimating how the news is capable of skewing things to screw people over.

<comment><USER72> I looked at the pictures. Any adult with even the slightest understanding of _how a bomb must physically work_ \--like, "have something that can actually explode"\--should be so utterly certain of its purpose that your concern trolling should horrify them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> So he has a Muslim name, which is why this story went viral. Because racism. I hope everyone is equally outraged by the nonsense that happens all the time[0][1] to kids who aren't named Mohammad in public schools.

Sending your high IQ kids to school with adults who are batting 85 should be regarded as parental malpractice. And the notion that people defend public schools and tell us taxpayers they just "need more money!1!!1" flies in the face of reason and the facts (per pupil spending since the 60s has tripled with no change in test scores).[2]

Public schools suck by their very nature as state-controlled entities. If education is so important (especially today), why do we allow our kids to be taught and schools administered by the equivalents of DMV employees? Of course the poorest kids with broken families suffer the most.

And what happens when charter schools actually succeed? The Teachers Union is there to try and shut them down, with the help of sympathetic politicians (see NYC and de Blasio)[3]

[0] [http://www.roanoke.com/news/columns_and_blogs/columns/dan_ca...](http://www.roanoke.com/news/columns_and_blogs/columns/dan_casey/casey- not-pot-leaf-gets-th-grader-in-big- trouble/article_67dc2868-0f0a-53c0-96ad-595a88391aa3.html) [1] [http://wjla.com/news/local/family-of-md-boy-suspended-for- po...](http://wjla.com/news/local/family-of-md-boy-suspended-for-pop-tart-gun- wants-his-suspension-record-expunged-106748) [2] [http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/mar/02/da...](http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/mar/02/dave- brat/brat-us-school-spending-375-percent-over-30-years-/) [3] [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/nyregion/success- academy-c...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/nyregion/success-academy- charter-schools-force-mayor-bill-de-blasio-to-confront-new-law.html?_r=0)

</comment><comment><USER74> Personally, i wasn't surprised at the display of racially-biased fear at the sight of device that appears to a bystander to look like a bomb. People are people.

But why did it need to lead to arrest, hand cuffs, finger printing after an interview and a casual examination of the device clearly demonstrated it was a clock (there was an engineering teacher who could easily collaborate)? It was an outright excessive reaction to further compound what was a regrettable mistake.

</comment><comment><USER75> In the article it mentions that his engineering teacher advised him to hide it from the other staff. Which is confusing to me. The teacher obviously knew it wasn't a bomb and obviously knew the other staff would misinterpret this. So why didn't the teacher preempt this whole thing by advising the school that "Yes, this kid brought in a clock to show me. No, it's not a bomb no matter how scary it looks."

<comment><USER76> It must be one hell of a clock if a teacher actually told the student to hide it from plain sight!

EDIT: A picture of the actual device is here.

[http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/dallas- county/2015/09/1...](http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/dallas- county/2015/09/15/irving-isd-student-detained-for-device-resembling- bomb/72339246/) [https://archive.is/Q0OLb](https://archive.is/Q0OLb)

<comment><USER77> This article is the only one to show that the kid did anything wrong. That was plug it in during English class, The appropriate response is to have it taken away for the rest of the day, and possibly a detention if it was really loud enough to disrupt class.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> A similar example: [http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-teen-girl- charged-...](http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-teen-girl-charged-with- felony-after-science-experiment-goes-bad-6521288) / [http://magazine.good.is/articles/people-are-awesome-teen- arr...](http://magazine.good.is/articles/people-are-awesome-teen-arrested-for- science-experiment-now-heading-to-space-camp)

</comment><comment><USER78> When I was in high school there was a guy there we all nicknamed terrorist because he always played for the terrorists in Counterstrike. When the school found out they expelled him and sent the cops out to his place. The cops found nothing, and the school didn't actually have anything to go on, but they still kicked him out for a week, all over a nickname.

<comment><USER79> Holy shit... Is there any follow up on this?

<comment><USER78> Not really. It was just a thing that happened and when the administration backed down nothing else really came of it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER80> This is the crux of the issue:

> "We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb," Mr. McLellan said. > "He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation."

Creative people don't need to have a good reason to make something. They create things because there is joy and satisfaction in creating things. It's a shame Mr. McLellan had such a boring childhood.

<comment><USER81> I don't understand what broader explanation one could possibly give, without starting to sound extremely sarcastic.

It's a clock, you know, for telling the time, because if I made a sundial and brought it in, it wouldn't work because of the walls and roof.

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> The Irving ISD Student Code of Conduct, which the principle alleges the student to have broken, can be downloaded at [http://www.irvingisd.net/Page/5183](http://www.irvingisd.net/Page/5183).

I couldn't find anything in there prohibiting a clock or other non- communication related electronic devices. I didn't read every word so maybe I missed something.

I did find the following under the prohibited items section: "Any articles not generally considered to be weapons, including school supplies, when the principal or designee determines that a danger exists."

But that would seem to create a dilemma in this situation. If it was a bomb it wouldn't be covered by that stipulation, but if it was a clock then no reasonable person could consider it to be dangerous.

If we're being charitable we could assume the principled believed it was a bomb at the time, in which case it would have been covered by other stipulations in the code. But if that is the case then I would think the school should have been evacuated. I don't know if that happened or not.

Also, good lord, I don't ever remember having to sign something like that document (it's a 44 page document that reads like a contract) when I was in school. Is it even legally binding to have a minor sign that?

</comment><comment><USER83> Many comments here on HN seem to feel that this is an issue with Education system or schools. But I as a non American feel is that a common American is too afraid of anything non American or anything strange. The main objective of terrorist organizations is to instill fear in the minds of people and I think they have succeeded in it to a greater extent.

</comment><comment><USER84> The look on the kid's face in that first photo says it all, really.

Welcome to Earth, kid. These will be your fellow human beings. Enjoy your stay.

<comment><USER85> Hell, the kid has a NASA shirt, is a thin nerdy type and brought a science project to school to show it off (instead of whatever illegal things kids bring to schools these days).

I really, really hope someone will pick this up and offer that kid some kind of internship somewhere, if only to keep his moral and spirit up.

<comment><USER38> Five cops, the device presumably in another room, and they needed a kid who looks like his arms are made from toothpicks in handcuffs?

<comment><USER86> What if the kid had gotten his hands on a detonator button transmitter thing? It could have been a disaster. I'm being sarcastic, but I fear that one of these tools might use a similar excuse if you questioned them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER87> Perfect trifecta of bigotry, ignorance and cowardice. And at a school too, where any number of apparently educated staff could have verified what the device was in a moment. Great job!

<comment><USER88> You might have a point if the device was for a school project. But it was his own "invention" which is own engineering teacher warned him against showing around.

He not only showed it around, but plugged it in during English class where it made beeping noises. Do you expect the English teacher should need to "verify" a box of wires and circuits? Who would she verify it with if the kid plays aloof when asked of its purpose?

Just because "authorities apprehend 14yo Muslim kid for home-made clock" doesn't mean you need to start making accusations of bigotry, ignorance and cowardice.

<comment><USER54> Bigotry, maybe. There's a chance (which I'd estimate at smaller than 1%) that there was no racial motivation here.

But I don't see how you can say there's no grounds to make accusations of ignorance and cowardice. Being unaware of what a bomb looks like is clearly ignorance, and being so terrified that you get an innocent kid arrested for it is clearly cowardice.

<comment><USER88> Handcuffs went too far. But that's a protocol issue for US lawmakers etc. We've all seen protocol out of control in the States for a host of different incidents.

No need to react so much in the other direction either, making this kid an ambassador of "freedom to pack electronics in a case and bring it to school" or whatever.

He made an error of judgement going against his teacher's advice, and a ton of bricks came down on his head way too hard. Hopefully everyone can learn something from this.

But you can't deny that "radicalization of young Muslims" isn't a _thing_ these days. No point of covering your ears and insisting everyone wants to get along.

<comment><USER11> > But you can't deny that "radicalization of young Muslims" isn't a thing > these days.

Radicalization of young Muslims is among the reasons why acts based on bias against young Muslims by authority figures in society is especially problematic, as those acts _contribute rather directly to_ such radicalization, and directly serve the propaganda interests of those actively seeking such radicalization.

This would be problematic if radicalization of young Muslims _wasn 't_ a particular concern, but it doesn't become _less_ problematic because such radicalization is a real thing, it becomes _more_.

<comment><USER88> So you don't think it's possible that authority figures can initiate _acts based on statistics_? On research, on scientific data? Or must their motivations always be grounded in bias, unfair discrimination, misguided old- fashioned racial profiling?

The point I was making about young Muslims - I wish it weren't true. But it is true.

Arresting 14yo kids isn't a solution, but neither is patronizingly inviting him and his suitcase clock to the white house.

I'd love watch the video of him checking into whitehouse security with his suitcase clock...

[http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10BF6/production/...](http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10BF6/production/_85589586_16e23342-6ce7-4c4f-b176-88d94cf667b3.jpg)

<comment><USER54> OK, what are the relevant statistics, research, and scientific data? What is the scientifically-determined probability at the time that this kid actually built a bomb, or was at least trying to scare people with a lookalike?

"I'd love watch the video of him checking into whitehouse security with his suitcase clock..."

It will probably be quite boring, because unlike paranoid local Texas policemen, the Secret Service knows what a bomb _actually_ looks like.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER89> The police knew it wasn't a bomb the moment they saw it. Otherwise they would have called in the bomb squad right away.

The fact that they continued to play games and arrest the kid is not for "safety". It's clear they arrested him because of racism.

<comment><USER90> My favorite clip is of the police who said something to the effect of, "When we asked him what it was, he only said it was a clock he didnt tell us why he brought it to school..." so they arrested him for a hoax bomb.

That statement reeks of a story made up after the fact. You can imagine them sitting around their police station after they let the kid go.

Police A: "Oh shit, this kid was just bringing in a clock to show his engineering teacher. There are several witnesses who heard him tell us it was just a clock. And now everyone in the world is watching. We're fucked."

Police B: "Nothing's fucked, bro. Be cool. Think. Think. Wait, he never told us whhhhy he brought the clock to school."

Police A: "Why does that matter? he told us it was just a clock and it is just a clock! Did we even ask why he brought it?"

Police B: "I didnt ask why. Did you? Even if you didnt, its still somethin' you could say."

Police A: "That is so stupid."

Police B: "Still, you know... it is somethin' you could say."

Police A: "That is so stupid. You are stupid. And, we are fucked!"

...later at press conference

 _clears throat_

Police A: "...he told us it was a clock buuuuut, he never told us whhhhy he brought the clock..."

 _glances over at Police B who has the stupidest grin on his face_

</comment></comment><comment><USER91> The letter to this parents: [https://twitter.com/jkfecke/status/644094380534591488/photo/...](https://twitter.com/jkfecke/status/644094380534591488/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

<comment><USER76> Just in case it "disappears" from twitter here it is archived - [https://archive.is/1wJhp](https://archive.is/1wJhp)

<comment><USER92> It's unfortunate that students are encouraged to report 'suspicious' things, but not 'exceptional'. Only bad things can come of it, never good.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> What probably happened here is that the kid bought one of the many digital clock board kits available.[1][2] The problem is that these look just like the TV/movie version of bombs, because, of course, prop people use the same boards.

Not real bombs, though. Richard Marcinko, the founder of Seal Team Six, once wrote that he'd blown up a lot of things in his career and he'd never seen a count down timer with glowing numbers.

[1] [http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-digital- clock-...](http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-digital-clock-kit- based-on-Atmel/) [2] [https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10930](https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10930)

<comment><USER94> Thanks! I was curious about this, because having volunteered for FIRST robotics, I can tell you that the number of HS students in the US with the skills to design and build a digital clock is pretty much 0. Looking at the picture, I think that maybe he re-homed a commercial clock into a different case and added some leads to run it off a battery ... which is still beyond the capabilities of 99% of US HS students.

Either way, congrats to Mohamed for being curious about how things work, shame on his teachers for not doing due diligence (maybe asking the electronics teacher to take a look before calling the police?), and I wish there were more information available about exactly what Mohamed had done, because I find _that_ to be the interesting part of the story.

Not that the response was appropriate, but I'm pretty sure that if I'd taken a similarly looking device into my very WASP-y suburban school, even though I'm white as a sheet, my school administration would have had a similar response. People are really paranoid these days, and right or wrong, we all have to deal with it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER95> Some true stories go viral because they "confirm" what a lot of people think is wrong with society.

Because they go viral, there is a lot of talk about them, which "confirms" even further that this is a Big Problem, and that it is caused by What I've Been Saying All Along.

In reality this is one single idiotic decision by some local knuckleheads. As a social science study, it has a sample size of 1 and a huge selection bias. The problems you think it "shows" _may well be real_ , but retelling this anecdote does not prove that.

</comment><comment><USER96> If police really thought this was a bomb, why didn't they evacuate the school and call the bomb squad? Their motives are suspect.

<comment><USER97> It's all about showing everyone who's boss.

</comment></comment><comment><USER98> The real problem here is that everyone in positions of responsibility in the government -- the school and the police -- feel the need to justify their existence by doing... something. The default action of the school is to call the police, and then what? You have only 4 outcomes once the police are involved: 1) nothing, 2) citation, 3) arrest, 4) death. How many times do the police just walk away from something? That's right. So (1) isn't really an option at all. Citation? For what? They were trying, but you don't write tickets for making "hoax bombs." Killing a scrawny 14-year-old kid is extreme, even for the most jaded cop, so that leaves (3), arrest. Then the legal system has to justify IT'S existence, and, well, we know how this goes. Then the ACLU has to get all up in it, and probably CAIR, and the Justice Department. All because everyone has abandoned their common sense and replaced it with fear and deference to the State since 9/11\. Thanks, Bush AND Obama.

</comment><comment><USER99> This really reminded me of the Star Simpson case. The police actually held her at gunpoint so it was perhaps even worse: [http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N40/simpson.html](http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N40/simpson.html)

<comment><USER100> She ended up with a criminal record, had to plead guilty, and had to state that she feels like she did the wrong thing.

This case put me off living in the USA.

</comment></comment><comment><USER101> Students all over the country should bring digital clocks and circuits to school this week as a protest.

</comment><comment><USER102> Honestly, more and more, I challenge the idea of ever having a child: bright and smart kids have never been so intimidated.

Many of the hacks I did as a child could have gotten me in jail today. Something 'silly' or 'funny' becomes dangerous/offensive/harassment; creativity, ingenuity and imagination are turned into dullness, self-hatred and nihilism.

<comment><USER103> Ironically, you are engaging in the same sort of fear mongering and paranoia that these schools and police are engaging in. You are taking a rare event (idiotic profiling or terrorism) and concluding they are very common.

These sorts of overreactions are very uncommon. That isn't to say these sorts of zero tolerance, jail what you don't understand, actions shouldn't be strongly condemned.

But there are probably hundreds of thousands of kids who are into tinkering and hacking who haven't ever been bothered.

<comment><USER104> Hang on: the route from school misdemeanor to criminal justice is well known and much talked about.

The combination of zero tolerance with police stationed in schools means many children end up with criminal records for very minor events.

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/09/texas-police- sc...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/09/texas-police-schools)

> In 2010, the police gave close to 300,000 "Class C misdemeanour" tickets to > children as young as six in Texas for offences in and out of school, which > result in fines, community service and even prison time

That feels pretty common. It doesn't feel rare.

It's known as the School to Prison Pipeline: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to- prison_pipeline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to-prison_pipeline)

<comment><USER103> How much of that is actual bad behavior. The school to prison pipeline is a worthy discussion.

But this sort insane, zero tolerance of total normal behavior is much more limited.

I agree we shouldn't be using the criminal system of kids who bring pot to school or who get into fights. But it's a different issue than a kid getting arrested for being a hacker.

<comment><USER105>
      it's a different issue than a kid getting arrested for being a hacker.

How so? Actually in some states the kids who bring pot to school are more worthy for being in the criminal system than the kid being arrested for being a hacker, seeing as the former qualifies as actual criminal activity (again, in some states).

That is to say, I agree with not using the criminal system for those relatively minor excursions, but at the same time I do not see how it is a different problem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER106> Here's President Obama's tweet on the matter --

"Cool clock, Ahmed. Want to bring it to the White House? We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It's what makes America great."

[https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/644193755814342656](https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/644193755814342656)

<comment><USER107> Amazingly clever twist!

</comment></comment><comment><USER108> This is outrageous... They need to offer a public apology to this kid, and take punitive actions against the administrators involved.

<comment><USER109> "They" _are_ the administrators involved.

Don't hold your breath.

</comment></comment><comment><USER110> Well this is what happens when you blare Islamophobia from all the twenty-four hour "news" channels.

<comment><USER111> No, this is what happens when you have stupid police and school officials that are tough on everything. There are enough outrageous cases in the last year for students of a lot of different backgrounds.

<comment><USER112> In this case it's definitely about the Muslim thing.. Their mayor is known nationally for being an ignorant bigot..

[http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2015/03/20/anti-muslim- sent...](http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2015/03/20/anti-muslim-sentiment- bubbles-up-in-irving-and-the-imam-who-has-to-tolerate-it/)

<comment><USER113> Was the mayor involved in this?

<comment><USER112> Yep, she spearheaded it..

[http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/mayor-wont-back-down-from- muslim-...](http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/mayor-wont-back-down-from-muslim- brotherhood/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER114> I posted this once regarding a related incident, but it's appropriate here too.

One day in college, a friend and I decided to pack a plastic bottle with dry ice and hot water. In our hung over state, we thought this would be fun to watch. I was in my apartment. It took all of five seconds to realize that I couldn't rip apart the bottle. So, if the force of this explosion was sufficient to do so, it was probably really fucking dangerous. I figured it was too late to take the cap off -- the bottle was already making weird sounds. So, I threw it in the bathroom tub, and shut the door. Two minutes went by, and I felt momentarily foolish. Almost as I thought "nothing is going to happen," it exploded. The force knocked my friend to the ground. Granted she was tiny, and it was partly from fear, but I felt the shock wave rattle my bones.

I lived in the more expensive apartment building on campus. No one even came to say, "what's going on." If they did, they would have seen the bent metal of the tub's faucet.

And, that was accidentally but _very literally a bomb_.

</comment><comment><USER115> Looks like he's been invited to the White House:

[https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/644193755814342656](https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/644193755814342656)

<comment><USER116> I just experienced a moment of pride in the leadership of our country

</comment></comment><comment><USER117> "You are under arrest for making a circuit board with a clock display, while bearing a name such as 'Ahmed Mohamed' and exhibiting a brown appearance."

</comment><comment><USER118> It seems Amazons recommendation system has acquired 'irony' \- it's recommending [http://www.amazon.ca/Elements-Computing-Systems-Building- Pri...](http://www.amazon.ca/Elements-Computing-Systems-Building- Principles/dp/0262640686). If I acquire it, I will then have to hide it from my son lest he build something and show it to his high school teacher.

</comment><comment><USER119> It's remarkable the difference that ~20 years can make. In middle school, someone's science fair project was building an actual briefcase bomb (with clay). It had a variety of sensors, and laid out (on a tri-fold poster board, of course) the guts of how each one worked.

<comment><USER51> Even 20 years ago that is still unusual.

And even pre-9/11 I'm still not sure what the legal status of that is. Since it was designed to be a "bomb," even if it is inert, several laws do cover that.

Essentially as soon as you describe a pile of distinct legal parts as a "bomb" you've now got a class of controlled weapon even if it has no explosive components.

<comment><USER120> > Essentially as soon as you describe a pile of distinct legal parts as a > "bomb" you've now got a class of controlled weapon even if it has no > explosive components.

Source? If I describe a chicken finger as a gun, is that also a controlled weapon?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER121> This seems like a great opportunity for us to show our support for kids who build things. Would anyone be interested in a GoFundMe to get Ahmed some Arduino gear or send him to an electronics camp? (I would just create one but I'm not sure what people would most readily donate toward -- gear or scholarship funds.)

</comment><comment><USER122> 14 year old boy is going to meet POTUS and he can bring his cool clock. [https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/644193755814342656](https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/644193755814342656)

</comment><comment><USER123> Hey Ahmed - if you're reading this, post the plans to your clock. I'd love to build one in solidarity with you.

<comment><USER124> It's not quite the same, but WIRED linked to some videos of how to make clocks:

[http://www.wired.com/2015/09/make-homemade-clock-isnt- bomb/](http://www.wired.com/2015/09/make-homemade-clock-isnt-bomb/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER125> Why is this a link to an aggregation piece by TechCrunch, rather than the original reported story by Dallas Morning News? [http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest- dall...](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas- county/headlines/20150915-irving-ninth-grader-arrested-after-taking-homemade- clock-to-school.ece)

<comment><USER126> The Dallas News version was submitted at least 4 times, TechCrunch was the one that stuck:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224216](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224216)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224223](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224223)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224649](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224649)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224747](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224747)

<comment><USER125> Thanks for checking that. I wish the mods would replace the link, since rewarding original reporting makes more of it, and rewarding aggregation makes more of that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> norea-armozel I just been reading about this morning and all I can say is what the hell is going on in Dallas? I mean when I was a kid I brought to school a model rocket with some solid rocket engines and all that happened to me was the rocket and engines were held by the principal until my parents could pick them up. But a kid making a clock gets arrested? Seriously, wtf is going over there in Dallas?

<comment><USER29> My school had a rocketry club. Bringing this kind of stuff to school was encouraged.

<comment> norea-armozel I bet today the principal and staff would think you guys were terrorists planning to siege the local strip mall. /s

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER127> Being handcuffed is the worst thing I have ever felt. It is inhumane and should not be practiced in a civilized society. The fact that a 14 year old child with that look on his face felt it makes my blood boil.

</comment><comment><USER128> They can probably change the title to "14 YO boy arrested for not being white and having the name Ahmed Mohamed".

</comment><comment><USER129> A picture of the clock in question would have been nice for inquiring minds to see..

<comment><USER76> Pic here: [http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/dallas- county/2015/09/1...](http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/dallas- county/2015/09/15/irving-isd-student-detained-for-device-resembling- bomb/72339246/)

<comment><USER94> If you watch the video that pic was taken from, you will find that that is a device 'like' the one taken to the school. Here's an actual pic:

[http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10BF6/production/...](http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10BF6/production/_85589586_16e23342-6ce7-4c4f-b176-88d94cf667b3.jpg)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER130> More discussion here - [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10226196](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10226196)

<comment><USER131> ...was wondering how not one, but two stories rocketed to the top (#1 and #2) of the front page.

</comment></comment><comment><USER113> I don't understand where the race angle is coming from. How is this definitely a case of "making while brown"? What's the evidence, besides the kid's brown skin?

I _would_ "stand with Ahmed", but if that means being attached to race baiting and Islamophobia accusations, I won't.

</comment><comment><USER132> > Update at 11:20 a.m. Wednesday: At a press conference this morning, Irving > Police Chief Larry Boyd said Ahmed Mohamed was arrested for bringing "a hoax > bomb" to school -- and not a clock, as Mohamed said he repeatedly told his > teachers.

> But, Boyd said, "we are confident it's not an explosive device" intended to > cause "alarm." Rather, he said, officers determined it was "a hoax bomb" and > a "naive accident."

> As a result, he said, no charges will be filed against Ahmed, and "the case > is considered closed." He also said "the reaction would have been the same > regardless" of the student's skin color.

</comment><comment><USER133> When I was in high school (in Slovenia), I have actually brought a home-made "bomb" to school. It had an LCD and a keypad, you would arm it and it would count down while beeping with increasing frequency, unless you entered the correct deactivation code.

Nobody mistook it for a real bomb and nobody had any trouble with it, except for when it was set up in the middle of class to annoy the teacher :)

A later improvement was the addition of "detorator circuit" based on the flash electronics for a disposable camera, and you could hook up something like a resistor to it which would then be fried by who knows how many volts...

</comment><comment><USER134> I don't want to suggest that what the school and police did to this guy is anything but terrible, but I suspect that he'll actually be fine in the long run. If I were an admissions officer at MIT, I'd jump at the chance to admit someone with an essay "I was arrested for building a clock".

I think the bigger concern is all the people who get in trouble with the powers that be, and don't have media savvy parents with time or knowledge or connections to get something in the local paper and/or get in touch with civil rights organizations.

</comment><comment><USER135> It really saddens me that this kid (or other kids in similar circumstances) could find the experience so traumatising that they lose the motivation/interest to pursue these creative activities.

</comment><comment><USER136> Frankly, if someone showed up with a clock and a circuit board with wires leading to a box on the board, what would people think? Keep in mind, there have been multiple mass shootings at schools already this year. They have to investigate it.

What if someone showed up to the mall with a gun in an open-carry setting? People panic.[2] The setting matters. Especially if the setting in question, a school, has been a victim of mass violence numerous times. This is not a HP lab. They were right to take a look at the device with police. However, this is where things went terribly wrong:

> When Ahmed was called out of class, he said he was brought into a room with > four police officers, one of whom said, "Yup. That's who I thought it was." > [1]

Frankly, the school and police should have been more professional. They weren't. What is more disturbing, is the police have inadvertently admitted they are profiling people in this community. There is far more details in the CNN article:

[1] [http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/us/texas-student-ahmed- muslim-...](http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/us/texas-student-ahmed-muslim-clock- bomb/index.html)

[2] [http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/fort-bragg-soldier- arm...](http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/fort-bragg-soldier-armed-at- cross-creek-mall-sparks-gun/article_01e2e2a6-2fd1-5e88-bd0f-ee0d3990ed63.html)

<comment><USER137> Frankly, if someone showed up with a clock and a circuit board with wires leading to a box on the board, what would people think?

I don't think we should assume that everything we don't understand is a weapon. I don't understand a lot of things, the vast majority of which are not bombs.

<comment><USER136> Did I say that? Don't think I did. You are basically arguing that they should not have investigated?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Here's a photo of the device he was arrested for having: [http://i.imgur.com/upANL9d.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/upANL9d.jpg)

<comment><USER138> What an odd picture. Not sure why you didn't link to a real source. This seems to have a similar looking circuit board:

[http://fusion.net/story/197958/irving-texas-police-arrest- mu...](http://fusion.net/story/197958/irving-texas-police-arrest-muslim-teen- clock/)

But then this article has a completely different picture:

[http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/15/student...](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/15/student- detained-police-mistake-clock-fake-bomb/72348060/)

If it was really mounted in that case in your picture, it's indeed a little funny looking. I mean, all of this politically correct rage is misplaced if the fucking thing _actually_ did look like a bomb. You gotta know that's not something to take into a school...

And who "invents" a clock anyway? It's sort of already-done. I mean, 50 years ago kids were putting together AM radios with electronic kits. At least that's sort-of interesting. It picks up signals from a 1000 miles away--cool! I mean, a clock? Why not invent an inclined plane next?

Oh, well. The media needs to push its narrative.

<comment><USER104> > And who "invents" a clock anyway? It's sort of already-done.

Clocks use a variety of circuit blocks - you need something to keep time; you need something to display that time; you can add other features.

With just "keep time" and "display time" you still have a variety of different methods. You can count mains frequency; you can use crystals and dividers. Displays can be 7 segment LEDs or LCDs or binary or analogue motors. Each require different approaches.

Even if it's just a shop-bought off the shelf kit the student learns a bit of component identification and handling and some soldering skills.

<comment><USER94> I don't think it was even that. From the pics, it looks like he liberated a commercial clock from its housing and put it in a different case. Unless it had battery backup, he may have soldered in a 9V battery connector, but since it still has a power cord I kind of doubt it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER139> Texas Education Agency (TEA)'s Accountability Report shows "NO DISTINCTION" for Science at MacArthur High School in 2015.

You would think these teachers would appreciate all the help they can get to earn some distinction in Sciences.

[http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2015/static...](http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2015/static/summary/campus/c057912003.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER140> Their twitter page promoted their first "maker space" which I have trouble squaring with this story. Is the message the school wants to send: creation, making, and learning is very very dangerous and only allowed under strict supervision?

[https://twitter.com/MacReads/status/643784222394552320/photo...](https://twitter.com/MacReads/status/643784222394552320/photo/1)

</comment><comment><USER141> Is it legal to search and interrogate a juvenile, without the parents present, in Texas?

<comment><USER142> In most states children in a school have little to no rights as the school is assuming responsibility for the welfare of the children.

</comment></comment><comment><USER143> Something doesn't seem quite right about this story. He made a clock and then chose to store it in a metal briefcase with the numbers on the outside. In other words, he built something that looks exactly like a bomb from a movie: briefcase with red numbers on it. Maybe this appearance was entirely accidental; but I would bet that he originally intended it to look like a bomb, probably for humour.

<comment><USER144> And it started beeping in class- depending on the kid's history/attitude sending them to an administrator is not an over-reaction. The zero-tolerance b.s. that happens next is the problem, but even there it's hard to blame administration- I'm sure there's zero tolerance for anything that looks like a weapon, and unfortunately a beeping case full of electronics qualifies.

</comment></comment><comment><USER145> This isn't surprising to hear coming from Texas, the state where legislation has titles like "The Save Orphans of Firemen Act" but actually when you read it, you find out they just want to bulldoze some poor peoples' homes on the east side of town to build a dump. And the bill includes some gerrymandering in the Ferengi print. Texas is like that.

</comment><comment><USER146> For the purpose of being fully informed, and because you won't see this photo shown much, here is the homemade clock that Ahmed brought to school. [1] [http://www.wired.com/wp- content/uploads/2015/09/AP_250782557...](http://www.wired.com/wp- content/uploads/2015/09/AP_250782557912-582x462.jpg)

Regardless of what someone looks like or what their name is, if you see them at a school with a device like this and it's beeping, I think it's reasonable to call the police. Allow them to come and have someone with expertise ensure that it isn't a bomb and determine the student's intention. Hopefully the police that arrive do their job well - with diligence, compassion, professionalism, and without animosity or bias.

Police were called, he was detained and questioned, and then released without charges [2]. It's a tragedy that we see bombings and shootings in schools - but we do see them, and far too often. These are the times we live in. So how should this have been handled?

Hopefully Ahmed doesn't lose any passion for science or electronics because of this afternoon, but I think if people handle the situation with rational thought rather than instigation, then he will have a much better chance at that.

1\. [http://www.wired.com/2015/09/heres-bomb-clock-got-ahmed- moha...](http://www.wired.com/2015/09/heres-bomb-clock-got-ahmed-mohamed- arrested/) 2\. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning- mix/wp/2015/09/16...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning- mix/wp/2015/09/16/they-thought-it-was-a-bomb-ahmed-mohamed-texas-9th-grader- arrested-after-bringing-a-home-built-clock-to-school/)

<comment><USER147> For the purpose of being fully informed, and because you might forgot you have seen this photo, this is what happened when the police arrived: [https://twitter.com/OfficalPrajwol/status/644011809351962625...](https://twitter.com/OfficalPrajwol/status/644011809351962625/photo/1)

Regardless of what someone looks like or what their name is, if they did not do anything wrong and is 14 years old, I think it's reasonable to expect them not being handcuffed and parade out of school in front of their peers. It's hard to take in good faith that the police have done their job well - <USER3> diligence, compassion, professionalism, and without animosity or bias.

Police were called, kid were arrested, detained massively erroneously, interrogated without the present of an attorney [0], and potentially having his life turned upside down, or side way (for better or worse). It's a tragedy that we see people without understanding of Bayesian statistics (or frequentist, for that matter) - but we do see them, and far too often. These are the times we live in. So how should this have been handled?

Hopefully _some_ will learn that reasonable and probable cause needs to have some basis in certain priori, and that opportunity cost and the boy who cries wolf are really and very harmful issue. I think if people handle the situation with rational thought rather than instigation, and understand that P(massacre | kids = 14 years old in the US) is some number that probably is smaller than IEEE floating point error, then everyone will be better off for that.

[0]: [http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/us/texas-student-ahmed- muslim-...](http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/us/texas-student-ahmed-muslim-clock- bomb/)

<comment><USER146> The police detained him until they could investigate the device and question him about his intentions, then released him. Sounds like a rough afternoon, but hardly a ruined life. He's been released and he's exonerated.

> Hopefully some will learn that reasonable and probable cause needs to have > some basis in certain priori, and that opportunity cost and the boy who > cries wolf are really and very harmful issue.

I put the security of a school full of other kids above the 'opportunity cost' of being questioned by police. I'm guessing many other people would as well - especially the parents of the other kids at the school.

> understand that P(massacre | kids = 14 years old in the US) is some number > that probably is smaller than IEEE floating point error, then everyone will > be better off for that.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Just because it doesn't happen in the US often, doesn't mean it won't. 14 years old are involved in violence all over the world, especially in bombing incidents.

<comment><USER147> If you truly assume that the world is a dangerous place that we really need to be _that_ careful, then it's the opportunity cost of the police force of NOT preventing the actual problems (there has to be some bad things being done/ will be done that is not prevented, right? That's the basis of your argument).

And if they truly believed it was a dangerous bomb, was the school evacuated?

> Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Just because it doesn't > happen in the US often, doesn't mean it won't. 14 years old are involved in > violence all over the world, especially in bombing incidents.

This is not even wrong, and it's terrifying if politicians would be thinking the same way as you does here. There is no guarantee EVER that anything will, or will not happen. But due to the limited resources and capability that we human have, we have to act and behave rationally based on the _probability_ that something will happen. A scenario that comes from an unfounded basis and human imagination can not be treated with the same weight as a scenario that has some more reasonable chance to happen (based on past performance or what not). And note that P(something) indicate the probability that something can happen (or your belief of something to happen, in Bayesian interpretation), it has nothing to do with past performance/ events. The past changes your belief of P, but probability is predicting the future.

People in certain area of the world are involved in violence all year round, having bombed dropped on their roof, their hometown decimated. Are you preparing for that scenario to happen to you in the US in the present? Why or why not?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER148> I used to make FM transmitters (very small 'bugs') and take them to school to sell.

But I was white, so unlikely to get arrested/expelled.

<comment><USER149> I was thinking of buying one of those on Ebay - do you see any better alternatives these days?

</comment></comment><comment><USER150> Why is there never any intelligent person with enough of a moral compass to intervene and tell these people to leave the kid alone?

</comment><comment><USER151> My daughter is about to work on a IoT-ish wearable using conductive thread, a LilyPad Arduino board and battery pack. As a school project.

I'll report back if she ends up in prison. It's not Texas, but Indiana isn't much brighter unfortunately.

(Thankfully the school is more hippy than dippy, and the teachers are aware and excited about the project).

</comment><comment><USER152> This really needs to end in a civil lawsuit.

<comment><USER153> In fairness it was probably staged by the father to end in civil lawsuit.

"His father, Mohamed Elhassan Mohamed, came from Sudan and is famous for arguing against anti-Islamic policies"

<comment><USER47> His father has been in the news several times.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/muslim-at-koran- trial-s...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/muslim-at-koran-trial-says- he-didnt-know-the-holy-book-would-be-burned/2011/04/05/AFKNR3oC_story.html)

<comment><USER98> That puts the whole thing in a different shade of light. Seriously. I wrote the kid on Anil's support page, but this makes me feel like there was more going on here than is being reported. I know, surprise, surprise, right?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER154> When I was ten, 1971, I asked my father for a chemistry set for Christmas. My parents were divorced so when vacation was over, I had to return to living with my mother. This involved a short plane ride from SoCal to NorCal on PSA. I was traveling by myself.

I recall putting my bags on a table so they the airlines people could look at what I was taking on the plane. When the FLIGHT ATTENDANT looked at my chemistry set, she turned to another official and said: "He could make a bomb out of these chemicals", My first reaction was to laugh.

I waited a minute while the adults thought it over and said: "I'm 10, I don't know how to make a bomb or anything. I jusy got this for christmas!"

They taped it up and made me check it, so I could not carry it on to the plane. To this day I marvel at the idea that a child would be suspected of making a chemical bomb.

</comment><comment><USER155> > In short, Ahmed was arrested for making while brown.

This sort of demagoguery masquerading as journalism has got to stop. Upvoting exploitative personal political propaganda like this contributes to an atmosphere of narrow-mindedness on HN that plays to the bigotry of its readers, with the majority of comments here responding in like.

I'm certainly not defending it, but in reality this sort of (over) reaction, is perfectly explainable when you consider the risk of government employees responsible for the lives of children NOT reacting and being wrong.

Yes, those involved need some education, but no more so than the author regarding journalistic ethics, or the commenters here stirring up a witch- hunt. You can see all the anti-Texan/Conservative/School/Government-ists overreacting here right on cue.

<comment><USER54> You're right that the reaction is explainable by pervasive CYA and the risk of not reacting and being wrong.

However, you're missing that pervasive and institutional racism is a big part of that risk.

Imagine a kid brings an actual bomb to school, the authorities don't react, and he detonates it. Then what?

The kid's race is going to play a huge role in how that decision is analyzed afterwards. If the kid was white then the discussion is likely to be of the form, "We need better mental health treatment to catch this stuff early!" If the kid was the wrong shade of brown then it's going to be, "He was obviously a terrorist and the administration should be thrown in a hole for not taking appropriate measures."

<comment><USER155> I'm not ignoring institutional racism, merely not assuming it, which is consistent with the American justice system tenet of never presuming guilt, even when you really want to and everyone around says you should.

You're making a lot of wild assertions that really are tangential and not intellectually consistent with my original point that there are no facts specific to this case to support the author's narrative, merely the assumptions and presumptions you espouse.

<comment><USER54> I love it when "guilty until proven innocent" gets brought up in internet conversations, as if it were somehow the right way to have a conversation.

This isn't a court of law. Skepticism is, of course, always warranted, but equating it with high principles of justice is ridiculous. We're not putting someone in prison here.

And institutional racism against certain categories of brown people is far beyond a mere assumption at this point. Just ask one of the many, many such people who get "randomly" selected for additional security screening every time they take a plane, for one random example.

You say that we shouldn't assume racism here because the incident is adequately explained by CYA. I say that CYA is _not_ an adequate explanation without also looking at race, because CYA would not have happened like this if the kid had been white and named John Smith.

<comment><USER155> You're misunderstanding, mischaracterizing, and conflating your own arguments.

It's a rhetorical appeal to authority, so implicitly, in addition to anyone who shares my respect for and identifies with the values of the American legal heritage, I agree with it. Therefore, even though it has no direct application, as you unnecessarily point out, it is a rhetorical convenience for delineating our very different views of right and wrong.

You misunderstand / mischaracterize me in that despite the existence of institutional racism, I think it is morally wrong and intellectually dishonest to presume or even assert that the specific police are racist, without personally specific supporting evidence.

        And institutional racism against certain categories of brown people is far beyond a mere assumption at this point.

Ha, ah yes, the old, "I'm not going to justify my stance, because anyone who disagrees with me is self-evidently delusional." It must be nice to use leverage your inclusion in the ideologically "privileged" majority as an excuse to ignore the merits of my argument. Some would refer to this as a microagression.

I'm not interested in engaging the rest of your arguments. It's not related to my original point, there's too much material to cover, and we clearly have wildly divergent views of right, wrong and what constitutes appropriate treatment of the individual police officers in this situation.

I will say, to avoid being mischaracterized, that we are in agreement that the student was mistreated. We merely draw different conclusions as to why. Mine upon the specific facts; yours upon generic presumptions, assumptions, assertions and other views that are not specific to this situation. As a personal admission, I don't see any avenue for myself for effective communication with someone that communicates as you have chosen here.

<comment><USER54> Oh yes, the good old "my argument is based entirely on facts, while yours is based entirely on nonsense, so they are not comparable."

Except I don't see a single fact in your original comment.

Sorry, but we're both in the same boat here. We're both making political comments while bringing in our own biases based on a lot of assumptions about how things went down. The difference is, I admit it.

<comment><USER155>
        "my argument is based [...] on facts, [...] yours ... on nonsense, [they're] not comparable."

I said your stance was based on presumptions, mine on facts, which are by definition incomparable since one is the basis for a conclusion, the other is a search of evidence to fit a pre-concieved conclusion and is typically based on prior context or experience.

        Except I don't see a single fact in your original comment.

Then you missed it. The TechCrunch author's controversializing use of race is not supported by any specific facts and is merely a presumption based on circumstantial evidence.

Now, we're in agreement that you believe presumptions are sufficient to reach different conclusions, and I do not.

        while bringing in our own biases based on a lot of assumptions

You're confused and not following along. Not only do I make no assumptions on this issue; that assumptions should never be made is my _whole point._

        The difference is, I admit it.

Your position is that we both make assumptions. My position is that assumptions should not be made and that your stance is justly objectionable. Do you see that admitting the above would not only be a self-contradiction, but, in fact, it would be a reversal?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER156> The Nanny State didn't Show Up, You Hired It.

[http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3095062/posts](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3095062/posts)

</comment><comment><USER157> This is the logical result of "if you see something, say something."

And, I can assure you that almost any science fair project found in a bathroom or under a car would look suspicious. So would a backpack or cardboard box.

</comment><comment><USER158> _" Because it consisted of a board with a digital display and a tiger hologram on the front, the teacher recommended he hide it from the rest of the staff._"

Anyone know why the teacher had him hide it? Are they restricted from having electronic devices and toys at school? Is it because the teacher thought it looked suspicious?

Either way it's unfortunate that the teacher didn't just ask to hold on to it until after school was out. If one reasonable adult had stood up for him before another adult freaked then it may not have been an issue.

</comment><comment><USER159> POTUS liked it [https://twitter.com/potus/status/644193755814342656](https://twitter.com/potus/status/644193755814342656)

</comment><comment><USER160> Condition 1. As long as teachers are drawn from most the lowest deciles of the graduating class, this will continue.

Condition 2. As long as we fail to value the education of children, Condition 1 will continue

Condition 3. As long as the majority of parent perceive that the life outcome of their children are less important than the parent's own desires for money, assets, sexual intercourse and self validation, Condition 2 will continue

Condition 4. As long we are humans, Condition 3 will continue.

Iterate ad infinitum ( or recurse if you love Lambda )

</comment><comment><USER161> Next time he should build a cuckoo clock that shouts Allahu Akbar.

</comment><comment><USER162> This doesn't surprise me. People are paranoid about bombs and terrorism, and most average people have never seen an exposed circuit board. To them anything with a circuit board and wires looks like the bombs they've seen on TV. I've had an arduino hooked up to an ipod for an art installation confiscated by police. Of course part of the problem was lack of communication by the administrators who had given approval for the project.

</comment><comment><USER163> This sort of thing is very sad, and a symptom of a larger problem. School district policy is a largely political process with a variety of actors with their agendas involved. Making effective change involves people with children in those schools coming together and making their opinions known. We have had a couple of successes in the bay area using NextDoor as a communication portal for this sort of activism.

</comment><comment><USER164> I find 'Refuse to be Terrorized' by Bruce Schneier to be an excellent account of mindset of people in a post 9/11 world: [http://archive.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securi...](http://archive.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2006/08/71642?currentPage=all)

</comment><comment><USER165> I'd love to send this kid a gift certificate for some free waterjet and laser cutting. Does anyone know how to get in touch with the family?

<comment><USER32> [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ws7e8WyQvrsLfhSFvdGot3n9NWK...](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ws7e8WyQvrsLfhSFvdGot3n9NWKfY3XLPBgbHaZDy3k/viewform?c=0&w=1)

here is a google doc where you can tell them just that yourself (:

</comment></comment><comment><USER94> Anyone have any actual technical details on what Mohamed built? Judging from the pics I've seen, it's clearly a commercial PCB. I'm wondering if maybe he worked out a power supply or display driver himself or if he simply re-homed a commercial clock into a cooler case... I don't expect that anyone in the 'news' actually cares enough to go into detail.

</comment><comment><USER166> When tasked with the protection of human capital, it's not a big surprise that the administration takes the most extreme response when confronted with uncertainty. That being said, the Engineering professor could have prevented the whole situation if he had just kept it in his class for the rest of the day instead of advising the student to "hide it".

</comment><comment><USER167> Making while brown, really? That's the best explosive phrase they could come up with?

Maybe it was stereotyping of one kind of another or maybe not. When Asians or whites are arrested under questionable judgement is it also appropriate to say making while while or Asian?

Dammit, there is an injustice here, but going inflammatory is not helpful. Who does the editing for tv? Are the awol?

</comment><comment><USER168> What's _incredibly_ sad to me is all the kids whose parents wouldn't let them leave the house with a homemade clock.

"What are you doing? If you take that to school they'll think it's a bomb!"

Even Ahmed's engineering teacher advised him not to show his clock to any other teachers. Fear and suspicion are the default now. That's heartbreaking.

<comment><USER169> The war on terror is over. Terror has won. The people of America are terrified. Osama bin laden has successfully dragged U.S. into conflicts in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq(there would be no war if not for 9/11), ISIS(who appeared from power vacuum left by U.S.) and Syria. U.S. has spent trillions fighting wars and maintaining bureaucracies' expansions that feed on the terror of the American people, and in return through security theatre further encourage this terror. U.S. is in a positive terror feedback loop. It is a kind of hell the U.S. nation state will never escape.

On the plus side, where the end is coming into sight, so is a new beginning.

</comment></comment><comment><USER170> Are the authorities here abnormally incompetent or is there something really wrong in the community where this happened?

<comment><USER171> There is something really wrong in this nation. Texas is just in a leadership position.

</comment></comment><comment><USER172> So, what can be done to help this kid? What can be done to make sure he doesn't lose his love of learning?

</comment><comment><USER173> Perhaps the correct response would be to ban circuit boards and items containing circuit boards from school grounds.

This would be quite educational, as everyone learned the hard way that cars, clocks, cell phones, loudspeakers, and so forth are packed with "threatening" fake bombs.

</comment><comment><USER174> > Ahmed was arrested for making while brown

This line really bothers me. Probably because I simply don't think this way. I don't see color in people.

It is because of this, perhaps wrongly, that I can't accept the idea that this kid was arrested because he is brown. I think a white kid would have been arrested just the same.

Why?

Because the problem, as I see it, is our schools, in some areas, are bastions of ignorance. And this goes beyond K12 into colleges and university.

The problem in this case is an "Engineering" teacher who probably isn't anything close to an engineer. In other words, incapable of evaluating what the kid actually built. For this teacher what was in this little box might as well have been alien technology.

Why do I say this? Because it would have taken any engineer all 30 seconds --if that-- to understand what this kid built.

This could not have been the first time this kid brought some of his work to school. It sounds like he is really into making stuff. His "Engineering" teacher should have known this and should have known his profile.

My oldest kid had a "robotics" class in middle school. In quotes because the teacher would come into the room, sit down and browse the 'net on her iPad while the kids did whatever they wanted. She got to earn extra cash by pretending to teach this class. The union protected her from any potential consequence of her ineptitude. The only reason the other kids learned anything is because my son actually taught them (we have an FLL table in our living room).

Now in college, he's come across the same sort of thing. A calculus 1 "professor" who quite literally copies from the book onto the blackboard and will not answer any questions during class. Students are asked to write the questions down and they might be answered during the next class. She clearly knows nothing. And, to be politically incorrect, is likely to have gotten her job due to "equal opportunity" rules. If I didn't devote a serious amount of time to help my kid Calculus he would have come out of that semester way behind in his understanding. I feel sorry for the other kids if they didn't have a parent with the requisite knowledge and the time to do the teacher's job at home.

Yet in another case, a professor in an arts class devoted half of nearly every class meeting to a monologue about her ongoing attempts to become an actress, professional dancer, whatever. No tests. No teaching. Just ranting about various aspects of her personal life every class. At the end everyone got an A. Sad. Truly sad.

There are many problems with our schools. I feel a huge part of it has to do with ignorance, incompetence and union contracts that prevent us from a "survival of the fittest" approach to evolving good schools with truly intelligent, well-informed, balanced, knowledgeable teachers.

Then there's the deeper political element. Teaching, K12 through University, is largely populated with a wide spectrum of people of Liberal ideology. There was a study [2] that concluded some majors have a ratio of 44:1 in favor of left to extreme-left teachers. And, with that, comes the use of their position to indoctrinate kids --consciously or not.

If you don't think this is a problem, please take a moment to go through the mental exercise of inverting that ratio. How about 44:1 extreme right teachers? Or, today's favorite punching bag, 44:1 Islamic extremist teachers?

Right. The extremes are not good for anybody. Before you jump-up in joy if you like the idea of academia being permeated by left-leaning teachers you need to take a rocket up to low earth orbit and consider what that looks like from many points of view and what the consequences of a mono-ideology might have on society. As an Atheist and moderate Libertarian I feel I am firmly rooted somewhere around the center of both ideologies in many ways. I am with most Liberal social ideas while wanting to see less government intervention and a Conservative fiscal approach to things. Having a 44:1 ratio of teachers pushing one ideology on the kids is a bad thing, no matter where you are standing.

And so, there's also a high likelihood that the teachers who are ignorant, acted like morons and had this kid arrested are Liberal and highly intolerant [1]. Nobody wants to talk about how, for some strange reason, the Left has become the most intolerant group over the last several decades. Principles are great to put down on paper, but, if you don't follow them, what do they mean?

This kid was arrested due to everyone around him being ignorant morons.

A few videos to consider:

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd4-WXw2SM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd4-WXw2SM)

[2] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVE-7OFk_tk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVE-7OFk_tk)

<comment><USER175> > This line really bothers me. Probably because I simply don't think this way. > I don't see color in people. It is because of this, perhaps wrongly, that I > can't accept the idea that this kid was arrested because he is brown.

If you really "don't see color", then that's commendable. If you don't think it's possible that _other_ people see color -- well, that's just willful ignorance.

The rest of your comment is irrelevant speculation. You have no idea about the political backgrounds of the teachers of this school. And if _I_ had to speculate, I wouldn't think it's likely that you'd find a lot of hard-line liberal teachers in a suburban Texas high school, in a town whose mayor is notoriously anti-Islam. [1] In any case, it wasn't the teachers who put this kid in handcuffs and interrogated him, it was the cops.

I'm not going to watch a couple of hour-long videos of talking heads, but I'm well aware that people like Sam Harris believe liberals are "intolerant" of anti-Islam sentiment. I'm struggling to see how it's relevant to this issue.

[1] [http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest- dall...](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas- county/headlines/20150319-national-islamic-furor-focuses-on-irving-vote- tonight.ece)

<comment><USER174> > If you don't think it's possible that other people see color -- well, that's > just willful ignorance.

I didn't say that anywhere. Yes, of course, bigots do exist.

Perhaps the greater point is that we shouldn't jump at any conclusions, including one that proposes this kid was singled-out because of the color of his skin or his religion. Nobody knows, right?

I am proposing it was ignorance on the part of the teachers, particularly the Engineering teacher.

Had I been in that position I would have had the kid do a full presentation in front of the class on how he built the clock and how it worked and perhaps see about having him teach the other kids how to build their own in school or as a home project.

Had other teachers expressed concern I would have said something like "Calm down, he is a great kid who'd been tinkering with technology for years. We need to encourage him, not smash him down. He just build a fantastic clock. How about everyone learns from him.".

Then again, that's me. A non-engineer engineering teacher might think he is looking at Martian technology that could end life on the planet.

This kid should not have suffered one bit due to the ignorance of the adults that surrounded him at school.

Beyond that, I think about what he said in the video: They took him into a room with five cops who interrogated him. I, as a parent, would be angry beyond description for that alone.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER176> And then teachers (some of them at least) complain why are they getting paid less? Go figure...

</comment><comment><USER177> This is so wrong! Instead of encouraging tinkerers, schools have become a dumbing-machine.

</comment><comment><USER178> All parents should send their kids to school with clocks tomorrow as a show of support.

</comment><comment><USER179> The case seems a little reminiscent of what happened to Aaron Swartz, large bureaucracy is unable to understand what someone is doing and so it attacks them. Fortunately it appears that the outcome will not be tragic.

</comment><comment><USER180> I feel so sorry for the kid :( I used to make my own beeping LED flashers with BC109C transistors and AA batteries when I was his age, and brought them to school to show my friends how cool electronics is.

</comment><comment><USER181> And now, every time that kid thinks about pushing the limits of his own personal education, he will reflect on this event and think twice. Will his effort be worth the outcome. Sad day. Very sad day.

</comment><comment><USER182> President Obama just tweeted: "Cool clock, Ahmed. Want to bring it to the White House? We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It's what makes America great."

</comment><comment><USER183> Ahmed and his family have started a twitter account, @IStandWithAhmed:

[https://twitter.com/IStandWithAhmed](https://twitter.com/IStandWithAhmed)

</comment><comment><USER184> Texas doesn't deserve this young man. Come on up to Seattle.

<comment><USER185> By all means, paint 20 million people with the same brush.

<comment><USER186> You make it sound like Texas has no other stories about a regressive education system.

<comment><USER185> Having grown up in the California school system and then moved to Texas I can assure you that is not an attribute unique to Texas.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Did they call the bomb squad? Nope, they never believed it was a _real_ bomb. Did he ever claim it was a bomb? Nope, never.

Somehow they still claim that Ahmed made a "hoax bomb".

</comment><comment><USER187> With such paranoia as this, you also can bring the inventive genius of a nation down.

The US has so much talent, but when such things will continue to manifest, the terrorists already have won!

</comment><comment><USER188> At my school somebody _did_ build a small time bomb and he made it go off in the dust bin at the playground. Even then the police didn't get involved.

</comment><comment><USER189> Reddit turned up a picture of the clock

[http://i.imgur.com/jGZ8RBU.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/jGZ8RBU.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER190> Reminds of that time where I ordered an Arduino online only to have it stuck and ceased at customs because terrorists that's why.

</comment><comment><USER191> 1) Nerdism is stronger than religion or race. 2) We need younger teachers who don't think circuitboards are bombs.

</comment><comment><USER192> Why aren't these good officers out looking for Flavor Flav? I mean, let's stop all this nonsense.

</comment><comment><USER193> Public educators frequently make stronger arguments for home-schooling than I ever could.

</comment><comment><USER194> Engineering While Brown.

<comment><USER195> And while jade helm is still in effect.... The kid with the homemade clock was how "it" was to begin.

</comment></comment><comment><USER196> Make Magazine should put him on the cover of their next issue.

</comment><comment><USER197> I really hope that the teacher gets fired for this stupidity

<comment><USER198> The press release from the school tells you everything about how they view this situation. They took a bad course of action, and now they're going into overdrive to justify why everything the adults did is ok. They'll probably add even more restrictions on what students can bring to school to make sure they don't look like fools again.

</comment></comment><comment><USER199> When they outlaw clocks only outlaws will be on time.

</comment><comment><USER200> Sounds like the four "arresting officers" were so ignorant they didn't know that you need explosive material, not just a trigger, to form a bomb.

</comment><comment><USER201> No, he was arrested because his name is Ahmed Mohamed. The clock was just the pretense.

</comment><comment><USER202> This guy fucks

</comment><comment><USER28> _" What are you doing out?"_

"Walking," said Leonard Mead.

 _" Walking!"_

"Just walking," he said simply, but his face felt cold.

 _" Walking, just walking, walking?"_

"Yes, sir."

 _" Walking where? For what?"_

"Walking for air. Walking to see."

 _" Your address!"_

"Eleven South Saint James Street."

 _" And there is air in your house, you have an air conditioner, Mr. Mead?"_

"Yes."

 _" And you have a viewing screen in your house to see with?"_

"No."

 _" No?"_ There was a crackling quiet that in itself was an accusation.

 _" Are you married, Mr. Mead?"_

 _" No."_

 _" Not married,"_ said the police voice behind the fiery beam, The moon was high and clear among the stars and the houses were gray and silent.

"Nobody wanted me," said Leonard Mead with a smile.

 _" Don't speak unless you're spoken to!"_

Leonard Mead waited in the cold night.

 _" Just walking, Mr. Mead?"_

"Yes."

 _" But you haven't explained for what purpose."_

\---

Excerpted from Ray Bradbury's short story 'The Pedestrian'.

For fairly obvious and somewhat depressing reasons.

<comment><USER54> Until I got to "viewing screen" I thought this was going to be a transcript of some real police encounter. (I didn't notice "but his face felt cold.")

</comment></comment><comment><USER203> Cross-posting from [1]

Is there any study to ascertain how these kind of incidents affect children psychologically, the effects of which manifest only years later? (Let's assume that this boy is a gifted engineer, and this incident leaves deep psychological scars not expressed in the next few years, but eventually leads him to take up activities later in life which are harmful for American citizens)

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10225962](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10225962)

<comment><USER204> Honestly, I had a very similar thing happen to me at an even younger age. Almost got expelled for hacking when I was just making stupid shit with batch programming. Similarly, I made a crappy little audio amp a couple years later at the same school, and again, almost got expelled for "making a weapon and bringing it to school" (they thought it was a stungun)

All it did was make me anti-establishment at a slightly younger age. The kid in this story knows that what he's going through is bullshit, and he's likely to have something pretty good come out of this due to all the media attention. If anything, I'd suspect it would drive him to create more, because if there's something kids like to do it's sticking it to the man.

<comment><USER205> Nothing quite so extreme for me but I remember being kicked out of class and sent to see our sadistic assistant principal for "trying to cause a panic" in my computer class.

This was around 1993 or 1994 and I was in 11th grade. I was in some fairly "bonehead" computer class and we often worked on simple projects and saved them to floppy disks to take home or work on later.

At the time, the family computer was still an aging Commodore 128 but I was working mostly in DOS at school so I'd bring home my disks and work on projects on my dad's work laptop. Dad's work laptop included a primitive virus scanner so of course I scanned the disk I'd been using on the school network. The scanner finds some minor virus and cleans it up (in retrospect, I guess it could've easily just been a false positive but who knows).

After taking the disk back to school and working on projects again, I scanned it at home the following evening. Virus once again detected. So the next day in class I mention to the teacher that there's probably some innocuous virus on the classroom network and offered to help get rid of it. I was interested in that stuff even if I was still mostly a novice.

But instead of giving me a new project, the teacher flipped out. She accused me of trying to start a panic and disrupting class and sent me to see the ass. principal. Now, this dude hated kids (especially the ones who clearly had no respect for authoritah). I had to sit in his office without speaking while he held a (no joke) half hour conversation on the phone with his friend about some fishing trip they had planned for the weekend. Afterward he reamed me out and basically told me I was full of shit because the teacher wouldn't lie about such things.

In the end, it was my first lesson in "people who don't get computers or trust them will often avoid dealing with issues that make them uncomfortable and possibly view you with hostility for suggesting otherwise."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER111> I guess he realizes how lucky he is, that he had not had his soldering gun on him. He would have been shot on sight. /not sure if sarcastic, sadly.

And back in the day we played with sodium, benzene, nitroglycerin, nitrogen triodide as part of the curriculum.

With the way current students are treated - the surprising thing about pupils going postal, is that so few of them are.

On the other hand that is a great way to incubate terrorists. Local and organic.

</comment><comment><USER206> What really strikes about this story is the fact that Ahmad was the party who came forward to the teacher and notified him of his invention and even demoed it but that wasn't enough for the school staff to deter suspicions since and this elementary school logic level if he were intent on doing harm, he would have concealed completely the fact that he built such a device and kept the info to himself without sharing with anybody till the operation is carried out.

But apparently everything is indeed BIGGER in Texas and this applies to stupidity, ignorance and prejudice as well.

</comment><comment><USER207> So how do we get his idiot school admin fired? That's the only way to fix this now. He's essentially marked the kid for life now with an arrest record because of his own stupidity. If our society doesn't punish these people (and it doesn't) then this would be a good use for Twitter shaming. He deserves to lose his job.

</comment><comment><USER208> This post is a living embodiment of this CGP Grey video[0].

[0]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc)

</comment><comment><USER209> Honestly, when I was 14 I would have thought it was cool as hell to have a realistic looking suitcase bomb if I had the skills to make one.

I am kind of leaning towards this being a publicity stunt, as a digital clock project really wouldn't require much circuitry, wiring or case space(with the result looking nothing like a bomb ). That being said I find it absurd for the child to be detained over any of it.

<comment><USER210> In the little video, it looks like a lot of it was just cannibalized parts. I'd be interested in the actual thought process that built the monstrosity (and I say that as a person who just loves that sort of gizmo work). When I was his age, I didn't know anything about proper electronics, and so I only took stuff apart and tried to figure out how to get it combined. I remember one of the big problems I had was figuring out enclosures, and frankly a $5 box from Target really would be the perfect thing; the other stuff likewise followed similarly.

Think of it as the Git-R-Done philosophy, like installing Postgres for a single two column table. It ain't elegant, but I wouldn't make a kid feel bad for trying.

</comment></comment><comment><USER211> Why would anybody be surprised by a pumpkin-positive cop? They're explicitly selected this way: [http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs- cops/sto...](http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs- cops/story?id=95836)

</comment><comment><USER212> There is likely more to this story.

I'm basing this on 3 facts:

1\. In 2015 it's highly unlikely that you could build a home-made clock that would be of the size and shape resembling a bomb - that is, unless it was made to look like a bomb.

2\. Ahmed, his father, and anyone else with a phone camera (that is on Ahmed's side) would have posted a picture of the clock, or given a full description of it (size, shape, etc), in defense of Ahmed - that is, if it made sense, otherwise they would not. And I have not been able to find an image, nor a good description.

3\. The initial teacher told him not to show it to anyone. You can break this down into that teacher having one of two opinions: A) It really did look like a bomb or B) its all about racism / hate / being anti-Muslim / anti-brown in that school (check the school's panel [http://www.irvingisd.net/domain/2031](http://www.irvingisd.net/domain/2031) \- that school is half brown and black).

<comment><USER54> You're assuming that it actually looked like a bomb.

It clearly did not. (There are pictures linked elsewhere in this comment thread, so you can see.) What happened is that a bunch of complete idiots _thought_ it looked like a bomb, only because they have no idea what a bomb looks like, and they are additionally ignorant of their own ignorance.

</comment></comment><comment><USER213> The situation sucks, but I find it so amazing, the outpouring of support for the boy from everybody! Hopefully his faith in people will be restored.

</comment><comment><USER214> Why not link to the original news article instead of to a blog that quotes it?

<comment><USER215> Because at least for me, the dallasnews website has been pretty much down all morning.

</comment></comment><comment><USER216> only in america

</comment><comment><USER217> this is fucked up beyond belief.

</comment><comment><USER218> 'Murica.

</comment><comment><USER219> I guess we can add science-ing while brown to the list of de facto racist laws in america

</comment><comment><USER220> This story is at 1 and 2 on both reddit and Hacker News. Why is this so interesting?

<comment><USER221> Because it's a person making something, authority denying him that for stupid reasons, etc. It has all the elements of something that appeals to hackers (in the "maker" sense).

But seriously, if you have to ask you will never know. This is more of a "you get it or not" thing, related to how HN's targeted demographic feels on such issues.

<comment><USER220> I'm not a banker or a lawyer, I get the story bro, I just don't recall ever seeing a story reach 1&2 in both places at the same time. I would maybe expect the discovery of extra terrestrial life to get that kind of fascination.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER222> Wow, this thread makes me ashamed to be nerd. It's all bashing the intelligence of administrators/educators while hypocritically trying to make the point that we shouldn't scorn groups of people. "Hey, kid, if a person can't tell a clock circuit from a bomb, it invalidates all their motives and education."

</comment><comment><USER223> <sarcasm>Hey maybe bomb making might be correlated with success in Silicon Valley [http://valleywag.gawker.com/peter-thiel-admits-the-paypal- ma...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/peter-thiel-admits-the-paypal-mafia-built- bombs-in-hi-1632734435) </sarcasm>

</comment><comment><USER224> I have kids at school and I'm actually for the responses from the teachers, yes it's overacting and could be dealt with _much_ better, but being overly alert on this is better than ignorant.

and it's better to show it at his house instead of at school for things like this I feel.

<comment><USER225> "things like this"

Please clarify. Things that are relevant to what you are studying in school and have been approved by your teacher for you to bring into class?

For someone who is speaking out against ignorance, this statement sure comes across as... ignorant.

<comment><USER88> Where did you get the idea it was "approved"?

Let's look at the facts...

1\. His own engineering teacher "suggested that he not show the invention to other teachers." He should have listened, but...

2\. During his English class the case made beeping noises. Not smart bringing it to English.

3\. When questioned, he didn't explain what it was all about, and was described as playing "passive aggressive".

4\. He calls it an "invention", but a digital clock in a case is not an invention. He's 14 years old, not 8. There's nothing inventive about it.

5\. Admitted in the video he chose a "simple cable" to lock the case so it "wouldn't look threatening". So let's be clear, he _did_ think about the possibility of it looking threatening, and his own teacher warned him about it.

Are the pieces coming together for you?

if he's smart, which apparently he is, then he should move on from clocks in cases to something that approaches an actual invention.

<comment><USER225> _" Ahmed, for his part, wanted to bring the clock to show an engineering teacher. Because it consisted of a board with a digital display and a tiger hologram on the front, the teacher recommended he hide it from the rest of the staff."_

This statement implies there was a conversation with the teacher before bringing it in and that the teacher told him to bring it, but to not bring it out in other classes/in front of other teachers.

Your other points are not even worth replying to and border on trolling. You're upset that he didn't invent something new at 14? Building a homemade clock is too simple for his age and only 8 year olds should do it? This is one of the most insane posts I've ever seen on HN.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER226> So... kid with an Arabic name, whose father is a belligerent Islamist known to the townspeople to rail against imagined anti-Muslim racists in the town square, shows up at school with a homemade electronic device with a timer on the front of it. He takes someone's bad advice to conceal it under his clothing, and walks into a classroom where it starts _beeping_.

I think reasonable people can understand why the police might have been called.

It was of course _unreasonable_ for the police to have actually arrested the boy, once they found out what they were dealing with. Reading between the lines though, maybe the article's use of "arrested" just means they took the kid home to his parents.

<comment><USER227> The father is an anti-Islamist. Anti. It means opposite. The guy is sufficiently anti-Islamist to go run for president of Sudan. That takes some dedication.

Muslim != Islamist, just as Christian != Westboro Baptist.

<comment><USER226> The article said the father is outspoken _against_ (presumably imaginary) anti-Islamic policies.

You may not know this, but Sudan is ruled by its Muslim, Arab north and is often quite happy to enslave or murder the black Christians in its south. Hardly a model of an anti-Islamist republic.

<comment><USER47> I'm not sure what kind of policies he's outspoken against, but if someone is against policies that they perceive to be hostile to Muslims, how does that make them Islamists who want to establish Islamic rule?

He is a Sufi (mystic, esoteric) and more than a bit eccentric. I saw his brand of Islam described as "New Testament" elsewhere. He has tried to argue (contrary to most Islamic scholarship) that the earlier peaceful Meccan sections actually abrogate the later warlike Medinan sections of the Quran. I don't think he's any sort of Islamist at all.

"He says he has serious issues with the hardline, traditional readings of the text, and he's writing a book about his reading of the Koran -- with working titles like Jesus Among Us With the Quran, or The New Understanding of the Quran."

[http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/why-mohamed-elhassan- the-...](http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/why-mohamed-elhassan-the-dallas- imam-who-played-defense-attorney-in-quran-torching-church-says-he-admires- terry-jones-7130292)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER88> Sounds like he was asking for it.

Notice in the video he says "he used a simple cable to lock it so it wouldn't look like a threat".

People are forgetting that there's nothing impressive about a "clock in a case". He called it an "invention". Sorry kid, you're 14, not 8. Nothing inventive about sticking a digital clock in a case.

His own engineering teacher suggested he not show it to other teachers. So what does he do? Takes it to English class where it makes beeping noises. Real smart kid, real smart.

It's a clock in a case. NASA are not interested.

Then, when first questioned he was apparently "passive aggressive", not explaining why he made it or why he brought it to school. Gee kid, you're really making all the smart moves.

Ask yourself, why would his own teacher suggest he not show it to other teachers? Here's why... his "invention" looked dodgy as all hell.

Hashtag "I'm not standing with this kid, not this time".

<comment><USER228> I can't see anywhere in that diatribe where he was asking to be arrested. The outrage is at the reaction here, not the kids level of martyrdom. We still aren't supposed to arrest 14 year old jerks with PCBs.

<comment><USER88> I'm sure it's always diatribe when you don't agree.

"Asking for trouble" is what I mean. The default processes in the USA are not what I'm talking about, but everyone here is defending his "right to be creative". Nobody is saying "hang on, he put a clock in a case, brought it to school, not part of any school project, advised not to show it around, showed it around anyway and was passive aggro when asked about it".

He was asking for trouble, and got it.

<comment><USER229> > showed it around anyway

A teacher discovered it when it beeped. I'm not sure how you've lept from that to "showed it around".

EDIT:

> and was passive aggro when asked about it

I'm not sure where you got this from either.

<comment><USER88> > 'I'm not sure where you got this from either.'

The police officer was quoted as saying he was "passive aggressive" when questioned about the device.

<comment><USER87> Haha wow, have you ever met a 14-year-old?

<comment><USER88> Yes I have.

The point was that the police said he acted very differently in his video than he did when questioned.

We've only seen his victim video. And finally his clock...

[http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10BF6/production/...](http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10BF6/production/_85589586_16e23342-6ce7-4c4f-b176-88d94cf667b3.jpg)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>