Linux laptops: should you avoid buying Windows? - <AUTHOR> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2013/dec/13/linux-laptops-should-you-avoid-buying-windows <comment><USER2> I noticed one important omission in this article: SSDs. All of the recommended laptops had 500GB hard drives. Modern SSDs are an order of magnitude faster than laptop hard drives in sequential reads/writes and two orders of magnitude faster in random access. Decent SSDs can easily saturate a 6gbps SATA III bus. They have latencies measured in microseconds. They are silent, shock-tolerant, and more energy efficient than hard drives.

Once you've switched to an SSD, any laptop with a hard drive will feel broken. Feel free to skimp on everything else when purchasing a laptop, but make sure you shell out the money for a solid state drive.

<comment><USER3> _Feel free to skimp on everything else_

Not hugely helpful advice?

Among the things you shouldn't skimp on I'd also include the screen, keyboard and RAM. I guess you could skimp on the processor and graphics ... assuming you're not a gamer and don't compile large projects.

Plus, given the high price of SSDs, skimping on everything else might not even make up the cost.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I have run either Linux or FreeBSD (briefly) on every laptop I have owned since my first one in 2002. I have never once booted into Windows since the first thing I do is wipe the disk. However, despite switching vendors several times, every one of those machines has had Windows preinstalled because it ended up being included with the hardware I wanted. Even when I was quite poor, I didn't care so much about getting a refund for the Windows Tax (after all, I was willing to pay the price with Windows included), but I hated the fact that I was subsidizing a company whose product I don't use and who is actively working against my user experience. I'd be happy with paying the same retail price, but with a simple way to donate what would have gone to Microsoft to the Linux Foundation or to pay an employee working on drivers, open standards, or anything else that ultimately improves my experience.

</comment><comment><USER5> I wouldn't risk the pain. You'll have to do a fair bit of research to figure out how easily Linux can be setup on a given laptop, and if you'll have to deal with the UEFI secure boot madness or not.

I just got a laptop from system76.com instead and I'm very pleased with it. No messing about. I know it works with my OS.

If that's not appealing, then Linux works great on Apple laptops.

<comment><USER6> _If that 's not appealing, then Linux works great on Apple laptops._

Yep.

Also, as an aside (relevant because hardware quality is an important factor no matter what OS you have installed): After 15 years of wrestling with non-Apple hardware, I bought a MacBook Pro in 2008, and another one in 2011. I tried using a PC laptop from work a couple of months ago, and I was shocked at how terrible the build quality was. A brand new laptop should not squeak when you use the keyboard or trackpad. Nor should it crash randomly once a day.

After six years of pain-free living with the Mac, I have no sympathy for those that complain about PCs but won't switch.

<comment><USER7> I see you haven't used a ThinkPad.

This is the same bullshit logical fallacy that keeps me firmly opposed to modern Macs. You think, that somehow, a $300 PC will be WORSE than a $1299 MacBook, and that ALL PCs are somehow terrible in build quality.

And then again more bullshit about Windows crashing twice a day. Yeah, maybe, if you have some crappy third-party wireless card with a driver written by some corporate intern in Pascal 18 years ago.

People like you are why my Air is sitting in my closet and why I'm still using a PowerBook G4 in 2013.

<comment><USER8> > People like you are why my Air is sitting in my closet and why I'm still > using a PowerBook G4 in 2013.

How does that in any way follow from what you said, and what do you even mean?

<comment><USER7> Well, really, it doesn't. Sorry for not making my point as clear as it should have been.

Essentially, this whole point that Windows laptops have no good ideas to be gleaned from and that Apple is God is making computers worse. I don't use the Air because it represents everything I hate about Apple: locked-down, stripped-down, un-customizable, unconfigurable, and untenable. Yes, it's damn pretty, but I don't just want pretty. I want pretty, fast, and functional. The PowerBook, and later, the 2006/7/8-era MacBook Pros, represent everything I love about Apple: well-designed, comfortable, functional, easy to use, and post-purchase upgradable.

Apple used to produce machines that were like that, but ever since Ive's been at the omnipresent helm of hardware design, everything I used to love about Apple's machines has gone down the river, so to speak. Yes, the new Mac Pro is exceptionally beautiful on a desk next to a huge 30" 4K monitor, but it doesn't have the functionality necessary to be called a Mac _Pro_. Studios need the expandability provided by PCI-e. TB still has too much latency to be able to be considered against true internal slot expansion. The Retina MacBook Pro is gorgeous, but it doesn't have an optical drive, so putting your high- quality lossless media on it gets to be a pain. It also doesn't have upgradable memory, or even a user-replaceable battery, two things that would be easily engineered if this "0.02mm thinner is better" mentality would die.

But, hey, you can't please everyone. I bet I'm going to be that guy with a 20-year-old computer who's running nothing but a shell and complaining about how the transparent, glass-screened, ultra-thin tablets of the future don't have user-replaceable hard drives.

<comment><USER6> _and that Apple is God_

This is not my view at all. I would buy from any vendor that's willing to drop legacy features such as upgradability in favor of improving the device for people. Apple is the only company that currently does that, so that's why I think their stuff is so hot.

I was wishing for a 15" portable without optical storage for _years_ before Apple delivered it with the current retina MacBook Pro model.

 _But, hey, you can 't please everyone. I bet I'm going to be that guy with a 20-year-old computer who's running nothing but a shell and complaining about how the transparent, glass-screened, ultra-thin tablets of the future don't have user-replaceable hard drives._

If you can think far enough to see this and formulate it in a sentence, as you have just done, then you don't have to become that guy. When you find yourself at odds with the world, you shouldn't instantly capitulate. But you should be ready to try to find out why people have a different view, and to change if what you find out necessitates it.

Back in the late 90s, I had a similar kind of animosity toward programming for the web. At the time, I thought Javascript was garbage, and traditional desktop apps would rule forever. Because I wasn't willing to actually look at the aspects of reality that were pertinent, the startup I did literally _missed the web,_ which is one of the reasons it failed. (We used the browser as just a way to put up brochures about the software we were writing.) Now I write web apps for a living.

Don't get boxed in by your own stale, unchallenged assumptions about the outside world. Test them.

<comment><USER7> > I would buy from any vendor that's willing to drop legacy features such as > upgradability in favor of improving the device for people

Except that most of these removals don't improve the device for people. If you weren't so blinded by the "Less is always better" dogma, you might have understood my previous point. The changes Apple made to their devices have continually made them harder to use on a daily basis for many people. Go on the forums, there's hundreds of complaints about the extremely small thermal envelope due to the thin chassis. There's even more about the removal of Ethernet, still a very, very viable technology, and yet more about the super- sharp palmrest bevel. There's tons more about the removal of Exposé and Spaces in post-Lion releases, and yet more about the "improved" document handling in OS X. The takeaway is that OEMs are running out of ideas, so more simplistic at the expense of function seems to be the only thing they can think of.

But hey, it's shiny, so it must be better.

<comment><USER6> You decry the removal of Exposé and Spaces, but not many customers missed those features anyway. The average consumer isn't fleeing the platform; in fact, simplifying things in OS X is an asset to most people. After a three decades behind PCs, my father got his first Mac last year. The last thing he wants to do is fiddle with multiple desktops, and the last thing I want is to get a phone call about it.

You're dismissing the new as merely "shiny," but there's a lot more to it than that. Complaining about the lack of wired ethernet ports is pretty much the same kind of thing as people complaining about the lack of the floppy drive and ADB on the original iMac. A bunch of people complained vociferously about it on the internet, mostly before they even had a chance to actually use one. Despite all that, that same machine turned out to be the first in a long string of products that literally saved the company from bankruptcy.

If what you say about building for the future were actually true (that it doesn't improve the device for people), then you'd see it in the company's financials. It can take a few quarters, but companies in this industry fail when they don't offer what their customers really want. (Just look at RIM.) And in order to do that, they have to design and build these things ahead of time, which means their target is at least 12-24 months in the future for refreshes, and a lot longer than that for new product categories.

That Wayne Gretzky quote - "I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been" \- really describes a major driver of Apple's success over the past fifteen years. Listening to customer requests for ethernet ports (most people use Wi-Fi), optical drives (most people download movies), IrDA ports (most people never used it), etc. is a great way to direct the limited resources of the company into building more and more products that people aren't as willing to buy (i.e., less profitable) by the time the company is ready to sell them.

At this point, I have to ask: Why are we having this conversation? If you think it's such a great idea to keep building computers the way they did in 2008, but just with better speeds and feeds, why don't you try making a business out of it? If not, why? This is not just a rhetorical device - I'm completely serious.

\---

As for the importance of what people have to say on forums, I submit the following:

Here's the way people reacted to the first iPod: [http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500](http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500)

"Sounds very revolutionary to me.

hey - heres an idea Apple - rather than enter the world of gimmicks and toys, why dont you spend a little more time sorting out your pathetically expensive and crap server line up? or are you really aiming to become a glorified consumer gimmicks firm?"

"I still can't believe this! All this hype for something so ridiculous! Who cares about an MP3 player? I want something new! I want them to think differently! Why oh why would they do this?! It's so wrong! It's so stupid!"

"It's now at the online Apple Store!

$400 for an Mp3 Player!

I'd call it the Cube 2.0 as it wont sell, and be killed off in a short time...and it's not really functional.

Uuhh Steve, can I have a PDA now?"

"All that hype for an MP3 player? Break-thru digital device? The Reality Distiortion Field™ is starting to warp Steve's mind if he thinks for one second that this thing is gonna take off."

-

[http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/](http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/)

-

I'm not going to keep digging, but you can find lots more of this same kind of crap thinking at the iPhone launch. I remember talking to a friend (an engineer at a major chipmaker) that said, "I don't understand what all the hype is about this Jesus phone."

-

And here similar things were said at the iPad launch: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1080840](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1080840)

<comment><USER9> Btw, fellas, Expose and Spaces is still around, just under a different name in the preferences called 'Mission Control'.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> With good support for Intel graphics, and more laptops leaving out 3rd party GPUs even on Core i7 models, it's easy to buy a laptop with high confidence that Linux will work on it.

But the article glosses over the trickiness of keeping a Windows partition on UEFI machines. Not an issue for me, but it does make me want a Windows license refund more than before.

<comment><USER11> Well it is until you want reliable WiFi and hibernate/suspend that actually works...

<comment><USER12> I've not had problems with wireless under Linux since ~2000.

Suspend/Resume is also catching up.

<comment><USER13> I reinstalled Ubuntu on an Asus that shipped with Ubuntu, and wireless randomly doesn't work on boot. Claims that it's disabled by hardware switch (there is no hardware switch.)

<comment><USER14>
        sudo rfkill unblock all

Why? I don't know, but I have to run this command a few times a year. It's in my history so it's easy to find.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I thought this article would be about System76. I've had pretty good luck with buying a ThinkPad T/X series and just plopping in the latest Ubuntu LTS release.

<comment><USER16> Works great with many Dell laptops as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I had to check the date of the post to check this wasn't dated 2003 or something - his answer seems very dated. Really it's not as hard as he makes out to make this stuff work, popular distros are being updated every 6-months, Intel, Nvidia & AMD get their stuff supported from day one.

</comment><comment><USER18> The article shows that buying Windows with a laptop doesn't cost you much more than no Windows at all. Based on this and my experience, I suggest to get a Windows first and install whatever Linux you like as dual-boot. The reasons are:

1) Having a Windows installed strongly guarantees that you are going to have a functional machine no matter what. Depending on your experience with Linux you might screw things up. If it happens you still have Windows as a back-up.

2) If your aim is to communicate research results, it is very likely that you are going to need to use Office at some point, to interact with your supervisor, colleagues, that don't care about OS and just run Windows (the majority of people). You can use Office within Linux but I find it much easier to use directly from Windows (reduces the pipework and focus on the science).

3) It maybe no longer holds, but a few years ago it was really frustrating to use and connect machines running Linux on a projector. For instance let's say you have to give a talk at a conference, you want to be 100% sure that it will work out of the box and that you don't have to fiddle around to show your slides. Windows does that really well (drivers are primarily developed for it I guess) and allows you to focus on the presentation only (stressful enough). I've witnessed numerous times good science being badly communicated because of this issue, where people try to tune the resolution for 10 minutes before starting and the slides end-up being half-cropped.

In summary, dual-boots guarantees compatibility with the outside world (science research perspective), and you can use your Linux the rest of the time :-)

<comment><USER17> > 2) If your aim is to communicate research results, it is very likely that > you are going to need to use Office at some point

Given that I work in a research department, math/scientific research papers are typically written in Latex - Microsoft's support for formulae is pretty bad from what I hear. Also, it's quite likely that your supervisor will have a Mac, those are extremely popular with academics.

> 3) Windows does that really well (drivers are primarily developed for it I > guess)

PowerPoint can really mess that up, you adjust the the screen so it's just right, then hit full screen and PowerPoint changes it a completely different resolution!

Also, I've seen tons of people struggle to connect to projectors, this is far from Linux-only problem, typical problems are not knowing the hot key to switch outputs, using the wrong resolution, extend vs. clone and not having an adaptor (typically mac, but not always).

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> The author exaggerates the compatibility of Linux drivers on a given Laptop.

</comment><comment><USER20> I know when I decided to buy a cheapish laptop 4 years ago to run Linux I chose Lenovo, it's still running decently well and I have never had problems. However, after reviewing the specs new laptops (since it's about time to get a new one) I am leaning towards a Macbook air or pro. They seem to give more bang for the buck and the OS has everything I need, along with excellent hardware (and outstanding battery life). I could also ssh into my linux tower when ever I need.

That being said, I know I would suggest that the person in this article probably should go with a macbook air. It is better than windows in most respects and also has much of the capabilities of most linus distros.

<comment><USER21> Before looking into Macbooks you should check out Thinkpad X1 Carbon, works flawlessly on Ubuntu, superb build quality and performance. Speaking from my own experience.

<comment><USER22> Another vote for the X1 Carbon. Definitely the way to go. It's too bad hardly anyone knows about it though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Mentions Lenovo, UK based, but does not feature the Linux Emporium, strange.

I personally do not need exceptional speed, so using refurbished Thinkpads off ebay.

 _" This would enable you to wipe the hard drive and install Debian while retaining the option to load either Windows 7 Pro (which includes an XP mode) or Windows 8 Pro if you need them."_

I would _always_ suggest making an image of the hard drive using CloneZilla _and_ using the Windows tool to make a restore DVD before wiping. Should you decide to flog the beast in a year or so, you can restore to factory state.

<comment><USER24> Can you recommend any sellers ?

<comment><USER23> At the Core Duo 2 end of the spectrum (e.g. X200s and X61 in my case), there are quite a few UK ebay sellers selling ex-corporate machines and I have had no problems with two of those, look out for a 30 day return period, and they always do a 'buy it now' price.

Newer i3/i5 based Thinkpads tend to be sold in smaller quantities by individuals so you just have to decide...

There is glugglug if an older X60 will do

[http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/](http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/)

Never bought from them but coreboot and a wifi card with fully free drivers look interesting. If they get newer machines to refurbish, I'll definitely look at one in the future.

<comment><USER24> Thank you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I had the dell xps 13 for a while. At the time, I thought the planets had finally aligned wrt driver support, build quality, and base specs. I was already using ubuntu on workstations and vms, and felt pretty happy with it.

In the end, it was small things that caused problems. For the dell xps 13, it was wireless performance. Also, I got the HD screen, which makes certain applications nearly unusable at the small screen dimensions.

I went back to a macbook air. I know you're not looking for a macbook, but that ended up being my sweet spot.

</comment><comment><USER26> I have wondered about Zareason laptops ([http://zareason.com/shop/Laptops/](http://zareason.com/shop/Laptops/)). Anybody tried them?

<comment><USER19> I haven't even known such a brand existed but their products are fine

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Manufacturers used to offer the possibility of requesting to get a refund for the unused MS Windows license. Did that possibility go away?

<comment><USER28> I was involved in some Windows Refund stuff in California. Many manufacturers later added language to their marketing and packaging claiming that bundled software was an integral part of their product and could not be returned separately, nor resold separately. If you tried to return it separately for a refund (as the Windows EULA text seemed to suggest), they would say that that was only an option if you returned the entire product.

So, my impression is that it's actually become dramatically more difficult for most manufacturers because they're specifically trying to prevent customers from getting a refund just for bundled copies of Windows.

I've imagined that some of these policies might violate (or be unenforceable because of) antitrust, consumer protection, or copyright laws in some jurisdictions, but I don't know of specific cases where they've been challenged on these bases or what the results were. I still look forward to a future in which the price of proprietary operating systems is actually able to operate as a disincentive for people to buy them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> If you get a laptop with mostly Intel (especially gpu) components it is pretty much guaranteed that any major Linux distribution will work out of the box just fine. The thing with preinstalled GNU/Linux is the same with preinstalled Windows: abysmal configuration. Even Dell fked up with their xps13 linux thing.

</comment><comment><USER30> Reading the article, it sounds like it should carry an "Advertising Feature" sub heading. I've long thought Scofield is a hack. This piece confirms it.</comment>


Salesforce buys word processing app Quip for $750M - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/01/salesforce-buys-word-processing-app-quip-for-750m/ <comment><USER2> I love Quip. My business heavily depends on it but this makes me very nervous. Its like Microsoft taking over Sunrise and stripping it for parts.</comment>


What makes an idea something worth a startup? - <AUTHOR>

I have a great idea. What are, in your opinion, the questions to think about to check if it is, or isn't, a amazing base for a startup ? <comment><USER2> Will lots of people pay you lots of money for it? If not, will lots of people pay you a little money for it? If not, will a few people pay you a lot of money for it?

Any of the above would lead you to then ask yourself whether you or your team have the right skills/experiences/capital to pull it off and then you need to understand if the cost of acquiring customers leaves you room for profitability (basic CAC vs. LTV).

I'd recommend and go talk with a bunch of your prospective customers to get feedback on the idea. Look for trends in what they are saying to understand if there is a compelling need or not.

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks eskimoroll .</comment></comment>


Asm.js performance improvements in the latest version of Firefox - <AUTHOR> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/asm-js-performance-improvements-in-the-latest-version-of-firefox-make-games-fly/

<comment><USER2> Not bad. On a related note, it seems that with FTLJIT, Safari now beats Chrome (V8) and Firefox-without-asm.js on asm.js benchmarks:

[http://arewefastyet.com/#machine=12&view=breakdown&suite=asm...](http://arewefastyet.com/#machine=12&view=breakdown&suite=asmjs- apps)

This is great news for anyone for whom V8 was already good enough, although Safari's still handily beaten by Firefox with asm.js mode, which is handily beaten by native. I wonder whether Apple is interested in implementing a special asm.js mode for Safari, which, LLVM being LLVM, might surpass Firefox.

</comment><comment><USER3>
      together with all the other work on optimizing
      asm.js, allows it to run at around 1.5x slower
      than the speed of the same C/C++ when compiled
      natively

Running at 67% of native speed, and backwards compatible with all non ASM.js browsers? That's pretty great!

<comment><USER4> I am working on a project based on asm.js technology. From my experience very limited and simple asm.js code might be compatible with "all non asm.js browsers". In particular I found IE9 wouldn't work with some compiled code. IE10 so far so good (but slow of course.)

<comment><USER5> asm.js relies on typed arrays, and IE9 doesn't support them. So I'd be surprised if IE9 was able to handle any asm.js code.

<comment><USER6> Emscripten can emit code without typed arrays. It's fairly slow but does work in IE9.

<comment><USER4> Yes, you are right, but I found back then that not all code can be compiled without these arrays. Can't remember why right now tho. So there are certainly issues with browsers not supporting typed arrays.

<comment><USER6> Yes, it is tricky to compile without typed arrays. It means we need to disable LLVM optimizations, and also a lot more undefined behavior in C will fail (anything that assumes memory aliasing).

With a little effort stuff can be ported, I ported CPython that way. But typed arrays is far better.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> That asm.js demo of Angry Bots [1] is damn slick. In Chrome (2013 macbook air) it's a bit choppy, but on Firefox 30 beta it's very smooth.

[1] [http://beta.unity3d.com/jonas/AngryBots/](http://beta.unity3d.com/jonas/AngryBots/)

<comment><USER8> works well on FireFox even with an old computer,but yeah it's a catastrophy on Chrome or IE.Good for Firefox that could become the Gaming Browser. Bad for us devs that will have to learn C++ to get good perfs out of game,because you cant write asm.js by end.

<comment><USER9> Eh, it's possible to write asm.js just much harder than regular JavaScript.

Keep in mind Operating systems were written in assembly, asm.js is not as bad as assembly in some regards.

<comment><USER8> I'm not writing an operating system.The point is you cant get these perfs with using regular javascript.ASM.js is not regular javascript,since it's a subset.

<comment><USER9> No, but this operating system is the example of most performant, least resource hungry application I can think off. If you need performance you don't write C, you write assembly. Same with asm.js.

<comment><USER10> You try to avoid writing in assembly unless you absolutely have to, because it's a big maintenance pain _and_ unless all your assumptions are correct it may not be as fast as the compiler.

It's not worth bothering with unless you're vectorising or want to use some other instructions that are not normally emitted (e.g. ARM add-with- saturation).

<comment><USER9> Yeah, but assembly generally isn't portable (x86 assembly is different than ARM assembly, etc.), that's what makes it biggest pain IIRC.

Asm.js on the other hand, is portable and just that makes it way better than any regular assembly. Also it seems better looking than regular assembly (no registers as such, no jumps, etc.).

It's a huge step back compared to plain JS, but it's not that impossible to write in.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Makes me think of this video "The Life and Death of Javascript " which brings what the future could be like with asm.js: [https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and- death...](https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of- javascript)

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm looking forward to Unity in the browser. The web player has never worked on Linux.

Unfortunately, the first demo terminates my browser with a segfault.

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0

<comment><USER13> Segfaulted for me as well. FF v29.0.1, Arch Linux x86-64, kernel v3.14.3, Intel HD4600 under Mesa/Intel DRI v10.1.3. The WebGL test link posted by azakai does exactly the same thing though.

Discussion: [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=181408](https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=181408)

Worked really smoothly on Windows.

<comment><USER14> Does your crash show up in Firefox's about:crashes page? The crash report might show whether it odds the same missing GL symbol the Arch Linux discusses.

<comment><USER13> about:crashes doesn't exist, but yes

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The Dead Trigger 2[1] game runs amazingly smooth on FF 29.0, Debian, Kernel 3.2 and is amazing to play.

I have been playing for quite sometime now, but the only problem is I can't find how to change the guns. There is no menu options or anything.

[1] [http://beta.unity3d.com/jonas/DT2/](http://beta.unity3d.com/jonas/DT2/)

<comment><USER6> Tab changes the guns. Also 1,2,3 do weapon-related effects (one of them is a grenade, I think).

<comment><USER15> Yeah. Found it. 3 throws grenade. Tab - next weapon, q - previous weapon.

Played it for an hour or so.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I hope one day it will not be possible to run manually-written JS in browser. You would need to use a safer language that compiles into an asm.js module.</comment>


Bullet Journaling (2016) - <AUTHOR> https://www.popsci.com/bullet-journal-guide <comment><USER2> This article reads like someone stumbled onto something they liked, then reasoned backwards to why everyone should use it.

Like all productivity things - if it works for you, great. But maybe don't assume your thing is _the magic thing_ that will fix everyone else's problems just like it might have your own. Likewise, there's a pretty big difference between something that feels productive and something that is productive - something that constantly grates the back of my brain whenever I look at some of these over-elaborate bullet journal examples.

<comment><USER3> The other thing to remember is that these systems change over time. I'm a productivity nerd - I constantly change what I do and what works for me, because at different times in my life (say every ~2 years) I stumble across a system that works better for the next period. There is no magic bullet.

<comment><USER4> What are you using right now, and what did you use before that? (Main day to day system)

<comment><USER5> Not parent, but I can chime in with my current system: Simple logs that I can search and copy.

The key for me is that it's not about the format. The format changes with the context: I have a different logging strategy for fitness(Fitnotes app, and since I was just gifted one this past week, a Fitbit) from the logging used for programming notes(repetitive short block comments with date, time, and sometimes title). I have a generic diary text file that contains catch-all musings, but I am increasingly using different logs for different tasks since I don't currently face a lot of time contention that would necessitate a detailed calendar.

My logs are not just what happened but also what I wanted to happen on that date. I'll often copy-paste the same to-do list when I didn't finish it that day, or "redraft" the same thought an hour after I first logged it, with some elaborations. Keeping it around, I learn what is or isn't working at a glance by skimming over these repeats hours to months later.

Having the date and time is essential to this because it makes the log a progression: my recent activity is my most important, most of the time, and so in the case of the programming logs, I can gradually edit and eliminate them as the code changes and the momentary thoughts of "I need to do this next" grow irrelevant, while if it's something like a log of weight/reps/sets, I just want to copy, increment the numbers a little higher, and add a note about anything weird that day that may have made me change plans.

When I really need freeform notes I will turn to paper, and I can see bullet journaling techniques being worth trying in the future for adding some structure to those. As long as I have dates I can usually recreate the context of any particular note, though.

Something I just thought of: is there a browser extension that would automate logging my history when I want to research something? That's a pretty common task that I currently address manually with a lot of right clicks and ctrl+C's.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Ryder Carroll just released his book _The Bullet Journal Method_ in October 2018. Highly recommend giving it a skim; it's a highly opinionated template about where to start with Bullet Journaling (kind of like Ruby on Rails or React for Bullet Journaling).

That said, if you are just getting started, it's way too easy to fall in the trap of setting up the tool instead of actually being productive. You want to fail cheaply and quickly: I'd recommend starting with unstructured paper (loose-leaf paper or a memo pad or whatever is handy) and doing just rapid logging for two or three days to see if you find it helpful. (The list of bullets can be found at [https://bulletjournal.com/pages/learn](https://bulletjournal.com/pages/learn)) If you find that helpful, then you can dig deeper with buying the book and/or buying a notebook.

<comment><USER7> Yeah, that's a problem/trap I fall into a lot with any sort of productivity aid. Omnifocus was a nightmare for me. I never did finish tweaking it to be just "right" because I really didn't know what "right" was.

<comment><USER8> Oh, holy crap THIS.

I tried with OF for a long time, but I never got it quite right - plus, mobile capture seemed needlessly slow and fiddly, and then they rev'd the tool to include WAY more white space and WAY less information density, and that was it for me.

I ended up in OrgMode, of all places, which is kind of funny since I wasn't really an emacs person before. Obviously, I am now.

I trust it in a way I don't think I ever really trusted OF, and I find myself using it much more consistently and religiously. It's been really good for me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It seems to me that people have trouble with being bored. So they need to fill their time being 'productive'. Instead of drawing fancy headers for 'Wednesday' or 'Spanish' you could also just doodle for the heck of it. No, no, no, you are not allowed to just draw for the sake of drawing, you must be working on your productivity.

That is all fine of course, but I think you'd be a lot happier just drawing for fun and being smart and efficient about handling your todos as many have stated here, through basic lists on any piece of paper.

<comment><USER10> Consider: drawing a fancy header as a way to clear other things out of your mind and start considering things like "just what the hell _do_ I want and/or need to do today?".

Consider: unique headers and other doodles act as memory aids when you are flipping through old journals looking for a particular thing. "I'm pretty sure it was close to a drawing of a blue cat eating pie."

I won't argue that Western civilization doesn't have a huge problem with wanting to pack every moment full of "useful productivity" though. If one of these gives someone an excuse to get down to some serious doodling then I can't see that as bad.

<comment><USER9> It is easy to find arguments for anything in hindsight as you did and that doesn't make the 'method' anymore valid or generally useful to everyone and I didn't say it is a bad thing.

I find it a shame that apparently many of us have problems with doing things just for fun without feeling guilty about not being productive. You can do whatever you want with your time though and for any reason. I am not telling anyone what to do here ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Frankly, like so many other "productivity" tools, you end up spending more time "using productivity tools" than you actually receive in benefit. Especially journals, since they continue to grow indefinitely, becoming an entire project in themselves.

I prefer a whiteboard, precisely because there is only a certain amount of space. Divide it about 2/3rds between "older generation" and "younger generation", garbage collect aggressively, and you're done with learning the process. Write whatever you like. Stick things to it with magnets, if you have the better magnetic kind, or blue painter's tape, if you do not.

<comment><USER12> Agreed. Never could find a tool/technique that didn't wear off after a few months.

I try to follow this rule of thumb: "Never let an item cross your desk (or inbox) twice if you can avoid it."

Which means you try to action something the very first time you see it.

<comment><USER13> Yeah. JFDI is about as simple and effective as it gets.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I eventually moved on to todoist, which I like a lot, but the bullet journal was really valuable for me in the past. Especially all of the addons the community has invented.

My favorite by far was this habit tracker, which is self explanatory: [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/c1/56/cac1563b454d07db2662...](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/c1/56/cac1563b454d07db266240fc45854ed1.jpg)

I ended up slightly modifying their bulleting system to better meet my needs - I wanted more granularity in rebalancing tasks across days/weeks/months since I have to reschedule the majority of my tasks at least once, but overall it's a really fantastic system, and probably the most resilient I've ever found for my flavor of ADHD.

I recommend planning the journal upfront somewhat. I browsed pinterest and instagram exhaustively for photos of how people structured theirs, and planned mine once I felt I had a good grasp of what ideas were available.

</comment><comment><USER15> I feel like the act of writing down things on paper is becoming way to buzzwordified. Personally I just write notes, todos, calendars etc down on a college notepad, no need for all sorts of supplies or fancy notebook, and no need to subscribe to any one religion of how to do it.

Find some paper, find a pen, write stuff down. Keep it simple.

<comment><USER16> I have adopted one convention: If I need to act on something later, I put a box to its left. Once I acted on it, I tick it off with a checkmark.

For example, during I a meeting I realize a problem in our software which is unrelated to the actual meeting agenda. I jot down a box and a few words in my college notepad. Later, when I have a few minutes, the "few words" are expanded into a proper ticket in our issue tracker and the box is ticked off.

I strive to tick off every box in my notepad by the end of the day. Sometimes that just means writing it down elsewhere (Email, electronic todo list, OneNote, Jira, etc).

<comment><USER17> I do something very similar to this. I put a box to left of action items, but instead of checkmarks I put '/' if it's in progress and then 'X' when it's complete. This allows for quick visual scans of what things still require attention.

For anything I run into that's a problem (gotcha, bug, mistake that requires a task to be re-started), I mark with '*' in left margin. This makes it easy for me to quickly find it later.

For things that are super important, I draw a box around the whole entry.

I'm also very conscious to keep things very brief and intentionally obscure (don't write last names and never write customer names), to avoid potential problems of having any sensitive information leaked. If I'm working with Marty McFly of Acme Inc. on a joint project Time Travel v2.0, I would only write things like 'respond to Marty concerns'.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I spend my day at my laptop and on my phone for professional reasons. Any task-list tool needs to live there.

After years of trying different tools, Things 3 has stuck. For reasons I'm not even totally clear on. Maybe it's the nice clean look. Maybe it's the sync between laptop and phone. It's not radically different from any other piece of task-list software. And yet, it seems to work for me.

Admittedly it's tough to take Instagram-friendly photos of it to brag to everyone how cleverly organized I am...

</comment><comment><USER19> I personally observed that write down things with pen and paper help memory, I also observed that reading thing on paper instead screen help again and finally mere write down in digital help comprehension like on paper but being able to modify anything "cost-free" reduce a bit the attention you punt in writing. Vocal dictation is awful.

But there is a big but: I'm really disorganized. I try to be organized on regularly basis and it work at first, after start to decline until I reach a point that I came back and focus again on reorganize.

In this scenario my digital world is essentially organized thanks to automation and periodic cleanup, my physical world of sparse note on any peace of paper I may get at hand, left anywhere, forgotten, only the ticket I regularly collect when I refuel my car and I periodically forget to register with only casual look at my on-line bank account... Well make me practically unable of such proper&clean records...

Long story short: a prize, but personally I have to stick with org mode...

</comment><comment><USER20> I have been doing journaling long before Bullet Journaling was a thing. Started with Moleskine and now I use Leuchtturm1917 that was mentioned in the article. Cycled through many pens, but liked only two: Uni-ball Onyx and Pilot V5 Hi-tecpoint (that I currently use), both in 0.5mm thickness.

I still do a lot of PIM stuff on the computer and iPhone: Google Calendar, Informant got TODOs, lists in Paperless app, because portability of a phone and other niceties like calendar reminders are hard to beat. I use journal mainly for more free-form things and brainstorming that involves drawing doodles, mind maps, and also some reflection.

<comment><USER21> I like the Signo 0.5 mm pens; its ink dries quickly enough for left-handed use.

My only annoyance is that when they are near-empty, the lines get spotty and inconsistent instead of turning brighter/weaker.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I used a bulletjournal for one year. It's very nice and has something zen-like to sit down and write on paper with a nice pen, but in the end I spent too much time maintaining the system. I tried to come up with cool spreads for tracking movies I want to watch, money I borrowed to people, credit card balances over time visualized and and and, but most of these spreads became annoying to update and drifted into being not complete, or I started dreading having to update it every month.

I also didn't like creating the monthly spread at the beginning of each month. Yes the point is that you get an overview of what's actually going on, but the more often I did it, the more often I didn't want to do it. It also meant that my bulletjournal monthly spread had to be kept in sync with my digital calendar which I needed for nagging me about events. Actual future planning was another restriction that was very difficult to get around. The yearly view works ok-ish, some other more complex systems were too much for me to try.

After a while, despite me really wanting to use my system, it just wasn't convenient. I spent too much time adding data into it, couldn't immediately jot things down when I was on the go, still had to use an app, and had more weight in my bag. I didn't like the feeling when I knew I forgot to write things down and my daily spread being incomplete. It was also pretty restrictive in what I could actually do given that it's just paper and ink.

I am bouncing between different setups these days but have been with Things 3 and a GTD-ish kind of approach now. I am now and then grabbing my BuJo though and still want to give it another proper go at some point. A completely digital version with a free-form ish text based editor similar to taskpaper or agenda would be very appealing!

<comment><USER23> Org mode in Emacs... it's old, but it works. It hyper links. It exports to almost any format. It lets you have complex notes. It can do agendas. It's awesome at searchable notes. It's plain text.

<comment><USER24> Is there anything equivalent for Vim or other text editors like TextMate, Sublime, TextWrangler or so? Asking because I don't use Emacs but do use Viim and other apps.

<comment><USER23> Nothing as complete that I know of. It isn't crazy to use Emacs just for Org Mode. At least check under the hood and see what you think some time. I know some vim users that use Emacs solely for Org :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Last I checked Leuchtturm1917 is not dead.

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TSIMW4](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TSIMW4)

<comment><USER20> Author probably meant that the other notebook is now in vogue.

<comment><USER26> Ironically, the Amazon link to the other journal _is_ dead. (It's on Amazon, you'll just have to search manually.)

<comment><USER27> OT: $37+ AUD, crazy.

<comment><USER26> What's crazy is the AUD price, which is higher than current exchange rate would suggest. Should be about $30AUD. But I don't have to tell you about Aussie prices, eh?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> My issue is that I have dismal handwriting and my hand hurts after writing more than a word or two. I have always been a typer, hated writing by hand.

It is easy to say now I should have learned to write better as a kid, but it isn't like I didn't try. I am 35 now, I think that ship has sailed.

I will stick to digital.

<comment><USER11> I learned, as part of other neurological investigations, that I may suffer from "dysgraphia", which is actually neurological difficulty with writing that doesn't affect other common tasks (e.g. typing). Turns out it's in the sort of family with dyslexia and dyscalculia, but much less diagnosed since it is less relevant these days.

So maybe it's not about how hard you tried or a failure of learning, but that you're just not meant to write longhand and it's not your fault. I certainly felt better about my abysmal handwriting after learning some of the mechanisms behind it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> This is easy to dismiss with the wide spread use of digital tools, but something about doing this seems to be deeply beneficial. And the bullet journaling technique specifically is surprisingly flexible and effective. I think some of it's features could be transferred into our digital tools.

<comment><AUTHOR> It should translate directly to a Surface and Surface Pen. So you get the slow thought of doing something with a pen and the accessibility of a digital medium.

<comment><USER30> Also consider an e-Ink alternative like reMarkable. Less features, but closer to real paper.

<comment><USER31> The hype looks good on this, but the reviews are pretty brutal. Losing pages on export, then updating the original file to the lossy file? Yikes.

<comment><USER30> I think the import/export is no longer lossy since the recent updates, they've been fixing tons of issues.

I've only got it a week, so fingers crossed they fixed that one.

<comment><USER31> That would be great. I may ping you in a couple weeks to see what your opinion is. I really like the _idea_ , but I also have a notebook and a camera in my phone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I tried using Bullet Journal for a few months this past year and what I loved most was the modularity in it. It was easy enough to use it month to month and let it evolve versus diving headfirst into the massive world of it. What worked out best was the index piece of it by making it easy to flip back through your notes.

Where it fell apart the most for me was on weekends when I wasn't working, or with a notebook all the time. So I'd just end up opening my phone and then forgetting to move the notes over. And vice versa, if I forgot my notebook I wouldn't have my notes on me.

I've been trying to find a digital solution that lets me keep a notebook at work and easily put those into digital tracking. The closest I found was Agenda ([https://agenda.com](https://agenda.com)) but it's kind of over engineered for my needs. I know Notion is well liked, but again it's overly complex for my needs.

</comment><comment><USER33> I left writing notes by hand since digital alternatives are easier to archive and search. But the remarkable has given me a useful tool that combines both.

Initially the software was lacking, but it seems to be the exception to the rule that electronic devices don't tend to improve over time without upgrading to the next model

I have a coupon code somewhere (that also benefits me) in case anyone is interested

</comment><comment><USER34> Personal preference: cut out notches or add post-it "flags" or something to pages to mark categories, either as a replacement for an index page or to augment it. You can easily add more than one per page, and it makes it super duper simple to flip through them quickly.

</comment><comment><USER35> At work, I use elements of bullet journaling but instead of using a paper journal I use my personal DM channel in Slack. This way I can quickly paste useful code / data into my journal and run searches efficiently.

</comment><comment><USER36> I only use my bullet journal for summarizing things I did yesterday, to capture screenshots/gifs for sysadmin related tasks, to make an ongoing study about something has changed over time (UX/UI of a few sites), to write about challenges I currently face. It's there if I really need it. It only captures past events so it doesn't become a maintenance task

</comment><comment><USER37> These kinds of systems tend only to work for people who don't need to coordinate their schedule with a significant other. Using online synchronized tools was the only way to prevent our family from constantly being unaware of upcoming events because only one person recorded it on paper somewhere.

</comment><comment><USER38> This page blocks browsers running an adblocker, so here is the content of the article: ___

One notebook could replace all the productivity apps that have failed you A nerd's guide to bullet journaling

By Amy Schellenbaum December 30, 2016

bullet journal Notebook. Pen. That's all you need.

Photo by Estée Janssens via Unsplash

You may have heard of bullet journaling, probably from your sister or your coworker or some other enviably competent person you have the pleasure of knowing. It's a productivity pocketknife—customizable, indispensable, satisfying to use—that is helping people track and organize anything and everything in their lives.

Its popularity blossomed in spring 2016 and intensified as back-to-school season approached. Now that January 1—a heady day for the latent productivity nerd—is so close, the bullet journaling community is evangelizing in full force. Myself included, I guess.

Intrigued? Here's everything you need to know.

What is bullet journaling? First of all, the system is totally analog. By that I mean it is done with a notebook (any notebook!) and a pen (or pencil, if you're one of those people). It's so simple it's stupid. It's so simple it's brilliant, too.

The idea first percolated in the brain of a dude named Ryder Carroll, who explains the concept very succinctly in this video. The basic premise is this: you have one book that contains every list, note, and plan in your life. It's like a planner, except not at all like a planner—because there are no templates and no rules. Because of this, it's very flexible and low-pressure. It's nothing more than you can handle; it's exactly as ambitious or exhaustive as you need at the exact time you are using it.

The concept hinges on just two "requirements" (they're not really required, honestly): an index and numbered pages. These elements let you see, at a glance, where to find the exact list you want to refer to—goals for the month, plans for your trip to Bermuda, health insurance reminders, etc.

<comment><USER39> Thank you. The page is still trying to load after making over 500 requests in 5 seconds. The amount of garbage that gets loaded is insane.

Look at these generated urls!

c-3sux78kvnkay76x24ijtx2ekshkjrex2eius.g01.popsci.com/g00/3_c-3ccc.vuvyio.ius_/c-3SUXKVNKAY76x24nzzvyx3ax2fx2fijt.kshkjre.iusx2fpyx2fgrr.k5gij614.pyx3fo76i.sgx78qx3dyix78ovz_$/$/$?i10c.ua=1&i10c.dv=18

<comment><USER40> I hate the way Popular Science loads all this garbage in a failed attempt to get people to deactivate their ad blockers. Awful UX.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I tried bullet journaling for a while.

The one thing I took away from it was how useful it was to have your own index for a book that can be filled with random stuff from all sorts of topics. All my years of going to school and having different notebooks for each class, and I never once realized this obvious technique for keeping everything in organized in one notebook.

<comment><USER42> One question: how do you create the index if you don't have the content yet? How do you decide the length of that topic? Do you just guess?

<comment><USER43> You leave blank space for the index or table of contents and add page numbers as you write the content.

So algebra notes might be on pages 2-10, 20-23,43-47; shopping lists on 11 and 19; Christmas ideas on 17-18. You can of course leave blank pages after a shopping list for the next one, but with an updated index and page numbers you can easily find the next shopping list page (you can also write "continued on page ..." at the bottom).

Another very different system would be to use binders (or digital notebooks) where you can easily add pages. However, then page numbers become tricky and you lose the chronological information of what was written in which order.

<comment><USER44> > However, then page numbers become tricky

Back when we were programming in BASIC, the 'solution' to the equivalent problem (line numbering) was to start by incrementing in tens rather than ones.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Ummm, all I see is a cookie notice.

Oh, and it wants to load two other URLs (cookiebot.com and nanovisor.io) that sound pretty iffy.

Why not point to [https://bulletjournal.com/](https://bulletjournal.com/) ???</comment>