Elon Musk Supports His Business Empire with Unusual Financial Moves - <AUTHOR> http://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-supports-his-business-empire-with-unusual-financial-moves-1461781962 <comment><USER2> WSJ has a target on Elon Musk's back. Every week they post something negative about him or his companies. I have a couple of conservative friends who have an irrational hatred for Elon. They rail how everything Elon Musk does is a "scam". The WSJ comments are a reflection of that mindset. More broadly, I wonder why WSJ and some conservatives set a target on Elon. There are literally a gazillion subsidies, tax credits, offshore accounting going around. For example, Hollywood shoots their movies wherever they get tax credits. Texas has attracted large back office operations using tax credits. Data center locations are chosen based upon which state government throws in the most benefits. It seems odd that they would spent so much energy on Musk, whose subsidies are probably a rounding error. It makes me wonder if there are bigger things at stake. Are the WSJ overlords really scared that he is making material changes to energy and transportation that could hurt them ?

<comment><USER3> That's a horrible generalization of conservatives.

<comment><USER2> Ha ! When did I generalize conservatives ? I said a couple of my conservative friends have this line of thought aligned with the comments. I was also just commenting on WSJ's motivation and not conservatives in general. Obviously not all conservatives are anti-Musk. I am not even sure that majority are. But there is no denying that there is a strain of conservatives who have strong anti-Musk sentiments.

<comment><USER3> "More broadly, I wonder why WSJ and conservatives set a target on Elon."

<comment><USER2> Apologize, didn't mean to come across that way. Edited comment slightly to reflect that

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Man, comments on that article are certainly ugly. I wonder why subsidies for Solar/EVs are viewed so negatively while ones for farming/oil/etc are almost ignored.

<comment><USER5> Farm subsidies are justified based on a perception of unfair competition. That farmers would make a loss without help.

You can actually make exactly the same argument about renewable energy. We invested in clean energy because it is a superior, but more expensive product. Fossil fuels are able to compete unfairly by selling a dirty product for less. Without subsidies solar would be forced to track the price of fossil fuels. As oil gets cheaper, solar becomes less profitable.

<comment><USER6> I've heard a number of arguments in favor of farm subsidies, but never one based on "unfair" competition. I'm curious about what you mean. American farmers are incredibly competitive and efficient, so I'm not sure who they could be threatened by.

And I'm not sure how you are relating that point to "clean energy". You say solar should be subsidized because it is a superior product. Are American farm products somehow superior as well? Is grain from the mid-west some how better than grain from Europe? Or is corn syrup cleaner than sugar cane from Cuba?

<comment><USER7> Farmers make no money. The government-supported crop insurance means they don't lose money as fast.

And unfair? We use that word to describe cars, steel, electronics but not grain? A Brazilian farmer can grow grain, haul it using donkeys to a barge, sail it down river to the coast, pay for shipping on a grain scow, and load it on a train to Chicago, for less than farmers in Iowa can afford to grow it. Its got to mean miserable working conditions for people in that whole chain. Is this any different from clothing or iPhones?

<comment><USER8> > Farmers make no money.

Source?

My roommate in college worked on his parents farm every summer and while he worked a lot of hours, he made would make about $25,000 dollars. That's more than any of anyone I know made during the summer except for me (I only made more cause my company paid for my hotel that I lived in plus the taxes on it which were both ludicrous).

<comment><USER7> My family. Our neighbors. The farm accountant, who says nobody he works for makes any money. Sure its just a few data points, but its darn hard to profit with erratic markets and weather. Maybe make money one year in three.

<comment><USER8> What do you guys sell? My buddy is from Indiana and they sell corn of which they have seen consistently growing "yield rates" or some term like that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> In general, a responsible CEO should utilize any legally defensible opportunities to operate the company profitably.

By subsidizing Tesla, the Federal Government is effectively investing in it. Tesla then utilizes tax concessions from Nevada to reduce the cost of building and operating the gigafactory. So in a sense, Tesla is spending the money invested by the Federal Government wisely.

If voters are not happy about the subsidy strategies of the government in general, they should be aiming their ire at their political representatives, not the companies that benefit from the subsidies.

</comment><comment><USER10> Is there an ELI5 version of this somewhere ? I understand some part of it but as a non-native english reader and not-so-financial guy it makes it hard to grasp it all.

<comment><USER11> ELI5: Musk borrows money from banks for his companies. He uses his own stock in these companies as a collateral, which means that they bank can claim the stock from him if he fails to repay them in the long run. It also means that if the stock starts dropping in value, the banks can take it from him and sell it as a precautionary move, since if it dropped too much they would have nothing.

If the banks were to do this, in theory this would hurt the companies. Right there is where my understanding drops off. Can someone else finish the narrative? Why would the banks selling off the stock collateral hurt Tesla ? How is it any different from me selling my stocks and someone else buying them? How does Tesla lose anything there?

<comment><USER12> Sigh! tbh the wsj comments on this particular issue are mostly accurate, though the other issues are debatable.

1\. Tsla is quite volatile. 2\. If it drops significantly by some Y%, Musk's shares which are used as collateral would be called. 3\. When that margin call gets triggered he'd be forced to sell X shares to meet it. 4\. X is very large. 5\. Since X is large, you have a ton of tsla on the market with no demand. Price will drop like a rock, by some Z%. 6\. Say I and you hold Tsla shares. Obviously we are OK with a price drop of Y%, because we know the damn thing us volatile, yet we chose to buy into it because we believe in its upside. 7\. But just because we are OK with Y% drop due to some macro event doesn't mean we are OK with this Z% additional drop due to the way Musk structured his personal investments.

In other words, ordinary investors could end up losing a ton of money (y + z) for no fault of their own, than if they had just lost y% which they had signed up for. Depending on what numbers you attach to y and z, you can make the case this is unfair or very unfair. For his part, Musk claims the probability of the above is low, though definitely nonzero in today's uncertain market conditions.

<comment><USER11> I understand and at the same time there's one little thing I'm missing which has always mystified me about stocks:

Who sets "the price"?

I understand that if a large amount of shares appear on the market with no demand, the entity selling them will lower the price in an effort to sell them. But how does that factor into "the price" that the stock is worth across the market from any/all sellers? How is that calculated? Is it just whatever the stock last sold for?

<comment><USER13> Yes, the stock price represents the last transaction.

If you are looking at a stock trading platform, you will usually also see "Current Ask" and "Current Bid" representing standing sell and buy prices (respectfully) for the stock.

<comment><USER11> Re: the last transaction, what if I sell someone a couple shares of Microsoft stock for $1? That obviously wouldn't affect the stock. Is there some mathematical expression of amount of stock that has to be sold to impact the price? Or is it a question of the sale being done by certain authorized entities?

BTW, if you don't see "reply" under this comment like I don't for yours, you can go to my profile page and "comments" and then you will see the "reply" link.

<comment><USER14> I think if you're a member of the public trading on an exchange, all you can do is ask an authorised entity to accept the "bid" or "ask" price (mentioned by brwnll above), which are set by other authorised entities. Maybe you can trade at another price by not using the exchange, in which case the market price would not reflect that trade, but I imagine that it would typically be difficult to find someone to trade with unless (maybe even if) you set a generous price.

I don't know, but maybe donating securities to charity and accepting a takeover bid could be considered examples of off-exchange trading.

If an authorised entity wanted to set an unusual "bid" or "ask" price, I think that would either trigger a trade (if it made the "bid" higher than the "ask") or (otherwise, assuming other authorised entities don't follow suit) merely signal that particular entity's unwillingness to trade that security at that the prevailing market price and have no effect on the market price.

I don't know whether this differs from exchange to exchange.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I admire how Musk is so certain about his decisions and is willing to risk all.

</comment><comment><USER16> >The financial transactions have raised questions on Capitol Hill, where some lawmakers are concerned that money from federal contracts with SpaceX could be used to help SolarCity.

Do these people not understand that money is fungible? It's like pouring two glasses of water into a pitcher and then trying to separate them again.

</comment><comment><USER17> I understand when he puts his money where his mouth is, but is it ok for him to fund one company with another when they're in different businesses and he's not the only shareholder?

I don't know all the details, but it seems a little strange.

<comment><USER15> He didn't fund company X using company Y's money. He funded company X by taking a _personal loan_ by pledging his own shares in company Y.

<comment><USER18> The article is quite clear about SpaceX buying bonds from SolarCity.

edit: (It does also mention the large personal loans)

<comment><USER15> The article lists out several unusual practices. Buying bonds was just one of them.

The bond purchase would have been approved by the board which would have considered if it was a good investment, those details we do not have. Maybe they were tax exempt, highly rated, secured and carried higher interest?

<comment><USER19> The bonds are great for investors because most of the the terms in there are designed to screw over the customer. These bonds are securitizations of SolarCity leased solar panel rooftop systems. The salesmane I met with in NY told me that was the only way I could get SolarCity panels installed at my home is if I signed the solar lease agreement (which would then be securitized into these bonds).

The lease says that if you default on the lease, by missing a single payment, SolarCity has the right to take back the panels, but you are still liable for the remainder of the lease payments even though you no longer have the panels.

<comment><USER18> Page 9 if anyone is interested:

[https://www.solarcity.com/sites/default/files/sc-contract- re...](https://www.solarcity.com/sites/default/files/sc-contract-resi- lease-2.9.pdf)

<comment><USER20> Hm, in section 16 you also have to pay them for all costs, and you still owe for the rest of the lease, plus compensation for loss of their investment tax credits.

Default is also triggered if you sell the house, the person buying it assumes the lease, but later has his credit rating drop.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> > He has had a string of triumphs lately... Tesla shares are up 77% since Feb. > 10.

Seems a bit disingenuous to cite a stock price recovery without mentioning its preceding collapse. (they do have a more balanced chart later on in the article)

<comment><USER22> Not only is there a chart, but the article also includes the sentence "Tesla fell 40% from the end of December to February, but has since erased those declines."

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This title makes me think he was going a casino and gambling with the companies' money. Then he is using those winnings to create more companies.

</comment><comment><USER24> Paywall free version?

<comment><USER25> This question makes sense to me. I believe this question, after considering the challenges of monetizing media while maintaining journalistic quality and integrity, is worth considering seriously and deeply.

<comment><USER26> Money value changes though. In the internet text is so cheap that its unreasonable to ask for money for it. That's just how it is. I personally, don't like rain clouds, but I have to accept that water makes me wet. Get over it.</comment></comment></comment>


Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs - <AUTHOR> http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ <comment><USER3> Philip Wadler wrote an interesting critique of this classic computer science text: [http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/staff/dat/miranda/wadler87.p...](http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/staff/dat/miranda/wadler87.pdf)

<comment><USER4> That was interesting. I have a question though. Lazy languages are simpler to deal with for strictly functional data... But what about side-effects? Is the pain of a monad less than the pain of explaining to a student that (defun if (then else) ...) doesn't work? I don't have experience with Haskell, can anyone comment?

edit: Is there anything better than Lisp macros that makes defining an if possible _and_ that supports side-effects?

<comment><USER5> I know both Lisp and Haskell, and I'm pretty sure that Haskell for most people is much harder to learn.

The two biggest stumbling blocks people encounter when learning Haskell are monads and the (powerful but complex) type system.

<comment><USER6> In my experience, learning OCaml is a good way to become accustomed to the type system Haskell uses without having to also learn how to do everything with functional purity at the same time. The type systems are _very_ similar, though Haskell has type classes and OCaml has a much more elaborate module system.

<comment><USER7> Interesting ideas.

I can't imagine myself using them for serious work, but am interested in learning these languages for mental exercise (ref <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=112196>). I attempted nostrademon's Haskell tutorial but had a hard time making sense of things and so forgetting was a problem. Moreso when you don't really spend time poking around for its own sake.

Would either of you recommend OCaml as a gentle lead-in to Haskell, so things can be more easily remembered?

I was offered a good book in ML, but I have even less idea of where that would fit.

<comment><USER6> I'd recommend OCaml over Haskell for real use, actually. Where Haskell is experimental ( _"[...] Haskell has a sort of unofficial slogan: avoid success at all costs."_ -Simon Peyton-Jones, [http://www.techworld.com.au/article/261007/-z_programming_la...](http://www.techworld.com.au/article/261007/-z_programming_languages_haskell?pp=10)), OCaml is intended to be a _practical_ multi-paradigm language, building on new ideas from SML. It has some faults (it's somewhat painful until you understand the type system, and the language seems to be all but designed to give a terrible first impression), but it's a very powerful language. It's not good as a glue language, but for stuff involving heavy numeric processing or complex data structures (e.g. compilers) it really shines. I think it's an excellent complement to Python.

IMHO, the best English-language book on OCaml is _Developing Applications with Objective CAML_, a French O'Reilly book. There's a free, complete translation available online (<http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/oreilly-book/>). I haven't read _OCaml for Scientists_, and I found _Practical OCaml_ by Joshua Smith to be a _huge_ disappointment, FWIW.

_The Little MLer_ is a pretty good book on ML's type system. If memory serves, everything but the last chapter would also apply to to Haskell, though you'll have to transliterate syntax.

Haskell is a really fun and mind-blowing language, and it will teach you a _lot_ , but I haven't found it to be a practical language. (To be fair, you might feel otherwise. This book looks quite good: <http://book.realworldhaskell.org/>) You could probably get a lot out of see- sawing back and forth between Haskell and OCaml, switching when you get stuck with one or the other. They have a lot of common concepts, but they take them in different directions.

<comment><USER8> I disagree completely.

It is true that a few years ago, OCaml was more "practical" then haskell. It was faster and had more libraries.

But today haskell is superior to OCaml in nearly all aspects.

As a language, haskell has always been cleaner and more elegant. It has simpler syntax, a more powerful type system, lazy evaluation, and in general more features.

In terms of performance, haskell has caught up with OCaml and exceeded it. The leading haskell compiler(GHC) has been adding in optimizations one after another the past few years. Deforestation, pointer tagging, parallel garbage collection, and other techniques from various research papers. GHC is a top quality professional compiler built by a bunch of geniuses. Haskell also has several implementations and compilers(GHC, Hugs, yhc, nhc, jhc...) while OCaml has only a single implementation.

In terms of tool support, haskell has a debugger(ghci debugger), a profiler(ghc) an excellent documentation generation tool(haddock), and a standard build system(cabal). These are all superior to their OCaml equivalents(where they exist at all: OCaml build systems usually are a mess of makefiles or autohell)

Haskell is catching up to OCaml in the number of libraries available. Haskell now has a CPAN-like website called hackage with hundreds of libraries for all application domains (see the list: <http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html> ). Libraries can be downloaded and installed with haskell's build system using a single command, with dependencies also automatically taken care of. The haskell standard library is also a lot better then OCaml's. OCaml has two different incompatible list types(one lazy and one strict). OCaml's file handles can be either written to or read from, not both. (It's not possible to open a file for RW in OCaml). And OCaml infamously requires special syntax for doing arithmatic with floating point numbers(1 + 2 for integer, 3.0 +. 4.0 for floating point).

In terms of community I think that both languages are about equal. Haskell has active and beginner-helpful mailing lists and an IRC channel (one of freenode's most crowded).

Overall, I believe that Haskell is more "practical" then OCaml in nearly every domain. The only thing where OCaml might be preferable is high performance numeric stuff. But this might not be the case for much longer when the haskell GHC compiler will soon get it's new native code generator.

Haskell popularity has been exploding in the past few years, with tons of new libraries and books. There have always been myths about haskell that have caused it to have a perception of being impractical, kind of similar to lisp. But the truth is that haskell is a practical language, and depending on what you need to do, it can even compete with other practical languages like java and python.

<comment><USER6> First off, thanks for disagreeing constructively. I was hoping somebody would argue with sources that Haskell has gotten better for practical use. It's a really cool language. You've convinced me to give it another look when I have time.

> OCaml build systems usually are a mess of makefiles or autohell

VERY true. OCamlMakefile (<http://www.ocaml.info/ocaml_sources/ocaml- make-6.28.1/README>) helps, somewhat.

> In terms of community I think that both languages are about equal.

Really? I've gotten the impression that the Haskell community is larger, or at least writes quite a bit more. (And dons on #haskell is really helpful.)

OTOH, OCaml seems to be more portable. Porting GHC to a new platform seems quite a bit more difficult than porting OCaml; its separation of byte- and native compilation helps considerably. (This may or may not be as important to you.) Also, OCaml doesn't need to do as many advanced things for optimization.

All other things aside, I still think that Haskell is probably easier to learn if you are familiar with OCaml first (which was the original question): Haskell requires you to understand several new ideas upfront before you can do much of anything, whereas in OCaml you can pick up functional programming and how to work with the type system before learning to work with lazy evaluation and monads / purity. (You can also use monads in OCaml, Scheme, etc., of course.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Hal Abelson is a smart guy. He does a lot of work concerning law, privacy, and technology, including the internet and mobile devices. You may want to take a look at his book Blown to Bits <http://www.bitsbook.com>

</comment><comment><USER6> Besides the book itself, are there any transcripts fer these videos? I've watched several of them, but some go by rather slowly. (I know: whine, whine.)

</comment><comment><USER10> if you're at all interested in self-growth, watch this with intensity.

<comment><USER11> Agreed. I've watched this series on and off for a few years now and it's always worthwhile.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I've been watching these to get a grasp of lisp, and think they're great - <USER2> least because of the amazingly cool retro-look and haircuts of the audience.

<comment><USER13> These videos and book are certainly way to get some grasp at LISP, but not especially good way, because what is presented as LISP there is Scheme and it is presented in way that I would call too theoretic and oriented towards pedagogical purposes. And intention of SICP is to teach basics of CS, not LISP or Scheme, Scheme is used only as programming language serving this purpose. And for this purpose it is one of best materials that I've seen. But because of this programming style presented here is significantly different from what is useful for practical purposes. So it will help you as programmer in general, but not as LISP programmer.

If you want to learn Common Lisp and especially to use it effectively I would recommend CL-oriented book, for example Practical Common Lisp by Peter Seibel.

But still I'm recommending SICP (at least watch the videos) to anyone who indends to be real programmer.

<comment><USER14> These videos made me a better python programmer. I wrote a small game in python in a lisp inspired style, and thought it was too lispy and so i tried to rewrite it in scheme, just for comparison. I don't know scheme that much, and because of that, i failed.</comment></comment></comment>


Lower Merion [Penn] settles [high school] webcam lawsuits - <AUTHOR> http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/news_breaking/20101011_Lower_Merion_settles_webcam_lawsuit.html

<comment><AUTHOR> As I recall the various law enforcement agencies decided not to do anything which left the civil lawsuits which started the fury. So the end game is that one student gets 175K in trust, another $10K, their lawyers get $425K (why are we surprised it's more than twice what the students are getting?) and of course the taxpayers will be paying the bill.

Ah, well.

</comment><comment><USER2> This is in Pennsylvania not NJ.

<comment><AUTHOR> Right you are; thanks for the quick correction.</comment></comment>


Why Quantum Computers Cannot Work I – Prof. Gil Kalai - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSpphjNm33g <comment><USER2> Gil Kalai and Scott Aaronson should debate this (and put the video on the internet).</comment>


Crosswalk comes to Ionic - 10x performance boost on Android 4.0-4.3 devices - <AUTHOR> http://ionicframework.com/blog/crosswalk-comes-to-ionic/

<comment><USER2> More precisely : _In older Android Devices (4.0-4.3), you'll see about a 10x improvement of both HTML /CSS rendering and JavaScript performance and CSS correctness._

10x performances, after losing much more in the first place ...</comment>


Why I switched to Mac after being a long time Windows evangelist - <AUTHOR> If there is one singular problem that stands out in my mind as making using Windows consistently unpleasant it is random daily freezes that interrupt work.
I've used Windows loyally for over two decades, from my first Gateway computer to the compact Dell at my desk at work today.  I've used Windows Server 2000, 2012, 2016, etc.
Every single use case for Windows is plagues with the same problem for the last two dozen years.  Consistently, Windows freezes, locks up, crashes explorer, between 1 and 7 times per week.  I don't miss this "feature" when I switched to Mac.  There was a phase on Mac that it would take a good 30 seconds to wake up after being asleep but this bug seems to go in an out.  I will trade this bug on Mac for daily Windows freezes anytime.
Since no one has ever addressed the issue, I'm finally calling out some common causes that I have seen.  The most common causes I have found aside from failing memory which is always a possibility:
1) Group policies 2) DCOM permission errors 3) RealTek audio drivers
Has anyone ever listed the group policies that cause Windows to lock up while they are updating every day at 3:00 PM?  I know they exist, and I would love to see a list.
DCOM, what is the point and why do I want remote access always available on my computer?  Why does Cortana need to have a constant connection, and why does DCOM errors in the event log cause Windows to lock up?
Finally, RealTek drivers.  These are the worst.  Why does an audio driver cause my entire desktop to crash?
If anyone could answer these questions for me, I would be eternally grateful and I will forward them to Microsoft promptly since in 24 years of using Windows, they still haven't fixed these basic user experience problems. <comment><USER2> > Consistently, Windows freezes, locks up, crashes explorer, between 1 and 7 > times per week

This doesn't happen to me. As it stands, my laptop hasn't done a power cycle since the last Windows update (10th). You are the common factor here, so the group policy (as you mentioned) is a good starting point. Try leaving it alone. Additionally, it could be 3rd party stuff that you typically install; Realtek is suspect because their software is utter garbage. Windows now includes support for a universal driver (Aria, or something to that tune) so you may be able to skip the Realtek installation entirely. The only driver I've installed on Windows in about half a decade is for the graphics card.

<comment><USER3> I work in aerospace and my organization is on windows. I have never encountered a more productivity - killing operating system in my life. Forced reboots for upgrades, laptops that randomly won't reauthenticate after wake, network drives that fail to map, other transient network problems, you name it.

Day to day, the biggest obstacle to getting my job done is consistently Windows. It's a thoroughly wretched piece of software.

<comment><USER4> > laptops that randomly won't reauthenticate after wake, network drives that > fail to map, other transient network problems, you name it.

Sounds like a problem with the System Administrators at your workplace. For example who is still using mapped network drives? Group Policy is the modern way to do it and has been for over ten years.

As to the two network issues, I'd have to dive into the event log to see why. I've seen WiFi drivers cause this, specifically a HP driver that took almost a year to get fixed.

Poor technical support and setup will hamper your work on any operating system.

<comment><USER5> Not for nothing but I haven't needed tech support on the job in 7 years. That's precisely the last time I used Windows professionally. Prior to that I'd spent a decade running Windows at work, across multiple organizations and had similar experiences as described.

I completely buy that a competent IT dept can make windows painless, but I haven't needed any support competent or not on Mac or Linux.

<comment><USER2> > I haven't needed any support competent or not on Mac or Linux

An overreaching admin could be precisely why Windows was such a pain for you (or the poster, who mentioned GPO). That is one of the downfalls of Windows - it's enterprise ready, which means that your experience is at the whim of another person or policy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I recently bought a MacBook Pro because it for a majority of the time it simply works. I feel like MacOS stays out of my way. On Mac, there is the app dock at the bottom, and the task bar at the top. Swipe between full screen programs. Simple. On Windows 10, there seems to be WAY too much going on. Press the start menu (which is an actual menu again), and there are tiles spinning everywhere and way too much clutter. Plus changing system settings is a pain too. I wish I can directly get to the original windows settings menu (for example, change hostname) but the process turns into this: Windows 10 menu, Windows 8 menu, Windows 7 menu, then finally the old school menu. To be fair, MacOS does hide some of its settings, but they are much easier to find and often relocated, instead of BURIED under different menus.

<comment><USER7> FYI - I just learned this trick (which was actually introduced in Windows 8 or 8.1): right click the start menu for a shortcut to a lot of system-level shortcuts (Event Viewer, System, Disk Management, etc).

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I went to the, possibly, only university in the country that did not have C & UNIX. In 1973, at USF Tampa, we had an IBM 360 system, complete with punch cards. Horrible. Engineering required Fortran IV, boring, and the instructor smoked. I finally worked at a defense contractor, which used DEC's VAX 11/780 running VAX/VMS. I was hardware and a good-natured soul introduced me to VAX/VMS. VAX/VMS was painless, easy to learn and use. In October 1981, IBM came out with the IBM PC. $6,000 with a monochrome monitor, no hard-drive, and DOS 1.0, not much more than a loader. Over time, MicroSoft improved DOS and eventually started the Windows franchise with Windows 95. The MS hired Dave Cutler away from DEC to be principle sw architect on the Windows New Technology. Windows was good and MS was innovative. Prices came down. Capability went up. But a new "feature" showed up: software "viruses", then trojans, then on-and-on, building a $10Billion per year anti-malware industry. I still stayed with MS. I liked and knew the user interface. Then came Windows 8, 9, and 10. Over time I had had periodic positive discussions with folks who knew and used C, UNIX, GNU, Linux. My wife is legally blind and finds her way around the display partly by vision (limited) and partly by memory. Windows 8-10 made computer use by my wife impossible. I switched to Linux Mint 17.3, love it, enjoy it, have fun with it. I installed Linux on both mine and my wife's machines, on a friends machine, and no-one has any complaints. Starting on Monday, 22 May 2017, I am teaching my 11yo grandson how to program in C on Linux. I doubt that I will ever go back to Windows.

<comment><USER9> > MicroSoft improved DOS and eventually started the Windows franchise with > Windows 95

Windows 95 was, iirc, Windows 4.0. The Windows franchise started well before Windows 95: 1985 for Windows 1.0.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I've had the opposite experience. Used Windows for 2 decades and rarely had problems. Switched to macs 4 years ago and all of them (4) crash a few times per week.

<comment><USER11> Did you install some (the same) software on all four of your macs? A few crashes per week per mac, on all four macs, seems more than a coincidence. I have had three macs and they always ran very stable. I only reboot when macOS updates require it.

<comment><USER12> Def seems more than a coincidence. But wouldn't OP having consistent crashes in recent years (past decade) for Windows indicate something similar when Windows for many people is pretty stable?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I find stories of someone switching to Macs at this late date very interesting, because it seems like the benefits for switching were always better a while ago.

Given Apple continues to gain market share, maybe I'm wrong.

<comment><USER4> > Given Apple continues to gain market share, maybe I'm wrong.

In Mac? I'm pretty sure they're steadily losing market share[0]. The whole market for desktop computing (inc laptops) has compressed, but Apple seem to be losing share faster than PC competitors.

iOS they remain in good shape however, but the OP's post was specifically about Mac/PC.

[0] [http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-mac-lost-most-pc- market...](http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-mac-lost-most-pc-market-share- in-2016-chart-2017-1)

<comment><USER13> Apple did lose market share in 2016, but its rebounded the last two quarters and is back to outgrowing the market. And note that the Macs average sales price is 2-3x the average PC price, and even increased the last quarter.

[http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/04/11/apples-mac- continu...](http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/04/11/apples-mac-continues-to- buck-worldwide-pc-shipment-decline-in-q1)

2016 was the the only year Apple failed to outgrow the market in at least a decade, its market share was as low as 2% before Jobs came back.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I don't get the regular crashes on my Win10 desktop I use for all my side projects and gaming at home. However, what I do see:

\- Firefox freezes constantly requiring force-quits. Reinstalls and updates don't help much. Probably Firefox's fault.

\- Mouse randomly clicks off in a different monitor, or in the upper left corner, losing application focus. While a minor annoyance while typing, photoshopping, using hotkeys, it makes me flip my shit when I'm gaming.

\- Wakes up from sleep without reason or indication or any way to stop it: The actual fuck. This is the worst. I have fiddled with every setting and registry entry that has anything to do with the computer's sleep state, captured logs to view activity leading to power on and after, changed OS's, formatted, switched hard drives, everything. This bugs the shit out of me, as my aging desktop is loud and hot and makes my bedroom a terrible place to sleep. I have scripts and shortcut keys from my wireless headphones to put my computer back to sleep from my bed, but what the heck is this anyway.

These are all random quality of life improvements that shouldn't need to be so hard to put in place.

<comment><USER15> I have a Win10 laptop which it's performance is nowhere near a gaming machine. 3 Firefox flavors are installed on it (2 of them with a lot of extensions) and I don't remember the last time I've seen them crash or require force-quits. Don't have a good guess about the experience you have been through with it.

About that mouse issue; have you ever tried a different mouse or reinstalling it's driver? I don't know Mac and I don't remember how it was on Linux, but if a mouse clicks or moves just a little bit, that wakes the system up on Windows machines. Till you got the random mouse clicks, it looks like it's a #1 suspect.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16>
      Has anyone ever listed the group
      policies that cause Windows to lock
      up while they are updating every
      day at 3:00 PM? I know they exist...

I can't wait to hear about this one. In all my years of reading about security and systems administration... What on earth? A global stop-the-world policy update that spans time zones? Why have I never heard of such a thing?

Could it be that this only happens on OP's machine because of a failure to remove malware?

</comment><comment><USER17> Windows 10 Creator's edition was incredibly unstable for me: after the upgrade, it would hang within minutes after boot. Each and every time. This went away after upgrading firmware of my Samsung SSD EVO 840 drive. But yeah, windows has never been an industrial strength OS like QNX and UNIX are.

</comment><comment><USER18> why not just dual boot?

<comment><USER19> Agree. I have a Mac for the sole reason that I can boot into any OS I want and thus run/debug any app I want.

If there was a Windows laptop that allowed me to boot into macOS with relatively simple set up (meaning as simple as Bootcamp setup) I would strongly consider it.</comment></comment>


Show HN: A central place to know about your favorite Avengers. Works offline. - <AUTHOR> https://www.amitmerchant.com/pocket-avengers <comment><AUTHOR> It's built on top of React.js. Check the source-code here: [https://github.com/amitmerchant1990/pocket- avengers](https://github.com/amitmerchant1990/pocket-avengers)</comment>


Scoop: Apple delays iOS features to focus on reliability, performance – Axios - <AUTHOR> https://www.axios.com/scoop-apple-delays-ios-features-to-focus-on-reliability-performance-1517278421-d7722a3b-402e-4804-8f24-719154bf2a8e.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twsocialshare&utm_campaign=organic <comment><USER2> I personally think MacOS needs more love in the stability department than iOS, though.</comment>


Why SpaceX Needs to Land a Rocket on a Floating Drone - T-A http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-15/why-spacex-needs-to-land-a-rocket-on-a-floating-drone <comment><AUTHOR> Amazingly enough this article misses the primary reason that ship landings are still useful even with land landings are possible - you can use way less fuel, since you can position the ship near where the first stage was going to fall anyway, rather than having the rocket fly back to to pad. Using less fuel for the landing means that you can use that fuel to lift a heavier payload.

Of course with the trickier landings, smaller landing targets, saltwater, and additional transportation risks, I'd expect landings on droneships to be only used when land is not an option.

<comment><USER2> Yup and while launchpads are at a serious premium, space in the entire ocean is not. They could in theory launch many rockets on the same pad over the course of a few days and land them all on separate "drone transport ships".

<comment><USER3> > Yup and while launchpads are at a serious premium, space in the entire ocean > is not. They could in theory launch many rockets on the same pad over the > course of a few days and land them all on separate "drone transport ships".

Or combine land and sea landings; Falcon Heavy boosters will return to the cape, the central core will land downrange on a barge.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I thought "floating drone" in the title referred to something like a massive airborne quadcopter. Now _that_ would be something!</comment>


European Parliament asks member states to grant protection to Edward Snowden - <AUTHOR> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20151022IPR98818/html/Mass-surveillance-EU-citizens%27-rights-still-in-danger-says-Parliament <comment><USER2> The most interesting part of this is, of course, the following excerpt:

"By 285 votes to 281, MEPs decided to call on EU member states to "drop any criminal charges against Edward Snowden, grant him protection and consequently prevent extradition or rendition by third parties, in recognition of his status as whistle-blower and international human rights defender"."

<comment><USER3> Well, they can call all they want but I don't think their opinion will override extradition treaties.

<comment><USER4> Why not? The US ignores treaties whenever it's sufficiently convenient.

But certainly, that is the excuse that will be used.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As Snowden twitted: "This is not a blow against the US Government, but an open hand extended by friends. It is a chance to move forward." I hope the US stops for a second and hears the rest of the world and its own citizens.

</comment><comment><USER6> I don't see this ever happening but it would make me very happy.

</comment><comment><USER7> How is he supposed to get there without a passport?

<comment><USER8> Airport Procedure [Germany]

Asylum seekers coming to Germany by air from a country of origin considered safe as well as refugees without passport asking for asylum at the airport are subject to the so-called airport procedure. This special procedure was introduced in 1992 when the fundamental right to asylum in the German constitution was altered. They may not leave the area of the airport and are accomodated in the transit area. Their request for asylum is heard and decided on by the BAMF (Federal Office for Migration and Refugees) in a summary procedure. Only if the request is approved or if the BAMF does not come to a decision within 2 days, will the refugee be allowed to enter Germany and to go through the regular asylum procedure. If, however, the request is refused as 'evidently baseless', the refugee may be deported without further judicial review. His/her only way then to avert this is a claim for [Eilrechtsschutz] which, however, is granted most scarcely. Many refugees in the transit area are awaiting their deportation for weeks.

[http://www.proasyl.de/en/topics/basics/asylum-from-a- to-z/](http://www.proasyl.de/en/topics/basics/asylum-from-a-to-z/)</comment></comment>


Apple's power over Facebook ought to worry the rest of us - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/31/18204559/apple-facebook-feud-market-research-platform-power <comment><USER2> On the other hand, the fact that Apple applies the same rules to Facebook as it does to the rest of us small developers, is a good thing. Apple protects his customers. Of course, you may ask who controls the controller, and whether "Do no evil" is enough, but Apple plays a role that no state is able to provide currently.

<comment><USER3> But they don't, and they certainly play favorites.

\- So far, they have taken no action to Google's similar behavior ( and yes, the removed the app, but after Facebook was punished )

\- They had a huge privacy bug with Facetime that they have brushed it under the rug, which may expose underlying privacy issues ( how is this possible if the connection isn't established before you consented? )

Apple has done some good, but it's no saint, and should not be a vigilante.

<comment><USER4> Looks like they did do the same thing with Google today.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > And just like that, Facebook's entire day was wasted.

Well, yeah, because

> the team within Facebook that built this market-research program appears to > have acted recklessly

Although "appears" is a weasel word there because they definitely did.

</comment><comment><USER6> Please explain which part of this timeline is where Facebook was innocent: \- 1. Facebook publishes app that steals user data to App Store, disguised as a VPN and it gets removed because it violates the terms & conditions that Facebook agreed to \- 2. Facebook publishes similar enough shady app through program meant for enterprise app deployment, violating another rule on top of violating the previous set of rules again, also they access children's data \- 3. get punished, rule-violating enterprise app distribution channel gets suspended

Thought experiment: If you published an app to Microsoft's Xbox One store which spies on users' out of app habits and therefore breaks the rules and got removed, then proceeded to send everyone jailbreak kits for xboxes and trying to incentivise them to use the app that way and got punished for it, would you feel that Microsoft has it out for you?

<comment><USER7> Apple's actions in this matter are unsurprising.

However, we should all be continually disturbed that one company has the final say over which executables are allowed to run on one of the largest computing platforms on earth.

Comparing the iPhone to a game console is fair, but game consoles are for very specific purposes (running interactive entertainment) whereas it's increasingly common for the iPhone to be a person's _primary_ computing device.</comment></comment>


To Make Sense of the Present, Brains May Predict the Future - <AUTHOR> https://www.quantamagazine.org/to-make-sense-of-the-present-brains-may-predict-the-future-20180710/ <comment><USER2> Another theory along these lines is by Jeff Hawkins of Numenta in his book "On Intelligence". He called in the Memory prediction framework.

<comment><USER3> I was going to mention this [https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.03971](https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.03971) which was partially inspired by Hawkins' work.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Kind of tangential, but I've always liked to think of memory as "predicting the past". I think we experience time in the direction that we do because it's easier to predict what's going to happen in the direction of less entropy. Given our current state, it's much easier to reconstruct what our state in the negative time direction must have been, as opposed to what our state in the positive time direction will be. Basically, our memory and our experience of time has a direction specifically because of entropy.

</comment><comment><USER5> I pretty much assume that IF we were all knowing of the state of everything (matter, energy, & anything else that is / could be) and IF we were all knowing of the rules that defined the state transitions that we could predict the future (the state of everything at some observation point)

We will likely never satisfy the above 2 assumptions, but our brains try to do the best they can with their limited sample of data / last gen processors. So sure, we may never predict future states with 100% certainty like above, but definitely with some % > 0

<comment><USER6> not on an infinitely small scale: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle)

on a macro scale, with a reasonable margin of error, sure. The problem comes when small scale effects begin to have large scale consequences: human thought might be chaotic enough (in the physical, not colloquial sense) to be like this. In fact there is a whole branch of physics/math that deals with this issue: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory)

<comment><USER5> I'm no expert on chaos theory, or physics, or much of anything, but directly from your 2nd link:

"Chaos: When the present determines the future, but the approximate present does not approximately determine the future."

Seems to support part* of my theory more than defeat it. Perhaps our current understanding of existence does not allow us to predict the future state of complex systems due to our level of uncertanty at a micro scale. Perhaps some day we will come to a better understanding that will.

Surely we don't have the full picture yet, but i think we have a lot more reasoning to do before I will accept that existence is unreasonable

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Interesting that now we transfer this prediction capability onto machines

</comment><comment><USER8> _Different brain regions … trade in different kinds of prediction._

Seems like disparate departments within organizations do the same.

</comment><comment> s-shellfish Calling it future prediction is problematic. We can't predict the future. It's a controlled delusion and sometimes some people will try to override your own reasoning system, and you honestly don't want to give them that power in exchange for it.

It's called inferencing. Sometimes we have so much information we don't understand why things make sense in the order they do. It's not future prediction. It's confusion between information that is relatively predictable because it's stable information with very little variation, plus confirmation bias of being correct about highly variant information we are not accustomed to being right about in a particular order.

Do not call it future prediction. Sometimes you will be correct about things before things happen. That's just chance. If it can happen, it can happen, it's in that space. But it's fundamentally flawed reasoning. There's still a whole open space of things yet to be experienced. That's what existence is defined as. You don't know what you know until you know what you know. It's not magic. It's called experiencing new things.

Calling it future prediction primes you into bias. Which closes you off from opportunities eventually, because you literally stop being able to see things for how they are truly.

Pattern matching brain. Being able to comprehend reality is absolutely vital to survival. Don't get lost in the waves of chaos. People can and do try to take control of confusion.

<comment><USER9> I think you're thinking of prediction at a way higher-level than this article is (although I admit I only skimmed it).

What I got from the article I felt was fairly obvious - it's more like 'to catch a falling object your brain predicts where it will be by the time your hand moves into position'. This seems pretty elementary to being able to function at all - things like predicting how we will need to shift our centre of gravity to walk on uneven terrain, etc. It seems entirely reasonable that we are constantly making these 'micro-predictions' on a subconscious level. This is also necessary to be able to navigate a 3D environment based on our vision, which is based on a pair of overlapping 2-dimensional projections.

So what you're talking about doesn't make much sense to me at this level. Reasoning about future events is completely different to the subconscious mental models of our vision system or language processing. At the level the article talks about, mostly the worst you can be taken advantage of is things like being tricked by an optical illusion.

<comment> s-shellfish Physics equations about balls falling are more accurate. The body and mind are good at guessing. That doesn't mean they are right about everything it guesses, especially models of cognition. Why bring up the the subconscious? How does that support anything?

> mostly the worst you can be taken advantage of is things like being tricked > by an optical illusion

Imagine living your whole life under an optical illusion. That should at the very least, be a choice you can choose between.</comment></comment></comment>


Raspberry Pi Projects to Inspire Your Next Build - <AUTHOR> http://blog.makezine.com/2013/04/14/47-raspberry-pi-projects-to-inspire-your-next-build/ <comment><USER2> If anyone wants a quick way to play Arcade and Playstation games on their Raspberry Pi, I'm maintaining a distro that does just that: <http://pimame.org>

<comment><USER3> Looks like just what i needed. However, i couldn't find much information about it on your site. What kind of systems does it support apart from PS1 and arcade machines? SNES? NES? Megadrive? What kind of controllers? Xbox 360? How are ROMS loaded? USB?

Answers to these questions should be easily accessible to any prospective user (i don't have my Pi available to test the distro), but then again, i suspect this project only started very recently and you're already planning on updating the website.

<comment><USER2> Yep. I recently launched PiMAME.org - Most of the info is on <http://blog.sheasilverman.com>, but this weekend I plan on updating the main site.

Right now includes AdvanceMAME, GNGeo (NeoGeo), and PCSX_ReARMed (Playstation).

The installer is available on github: <http://github.com/ssilverm/pimame_installer>

I'm planning on adding AdvanceMESS, SNES9x, and MAME4All this weekend.

<comment><USER3> Great! There're also videos on your blog which is helpful. I'll be keeping an eye on this project, and once i get my Pi back from, i'll be sure to check your distro out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Anyone considering doing a raspberry pi project may want to look at the new beaglebone black. It is marginally more expensive, has better performance, is completely open and has a fairly good software support community.

<http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black>

<comment><USER5> Mine arrived two days ago. Beautifully laid out, two symmetrical 46-pin female headers, micro hdmi and microSDHC. Boots flawlessly and looks like a usb drive to Win 7. You need a magnifying glass to see some of the components on its underbelly.

John Clark has just created a new website called armhf.com which has step by step instructions for loading Ubuntu 13.04 into eMMC memory. Site's 20 days old and provides image downloads.

Chose this board as the controller for a Techno-Isel to 3D printer conversion.

<comment><USER6> microSD slot and _normal_ HDMI I believe

<comment><USER7> HDMI connector on the BeagleBone Black is (unlike the Raspberry Pi) micro- HDMI.

<comment><USER6> You are right. On closer inspection of each picture I now understand what the ports are: [http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2013/05/02/back-in-stock- beagle...](http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2013/05/02/back-in-stock-beaglebone- black/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I really like the Pi. My model B Pi arrived today along with an 8 channel ADC that will be used for my new data logger project.

</comment><comment><USER9> I hat those click-click-click galleries.

<comment><USER10> What kind of gallery do you prefer?</comment></comment>


The Four Steps to the Epiphany - <AUTHOR> http://www.hn-books.com/Books/The-Four-Steps-To-The-Epiphany.htm <comment><USER2> I love his definition of a startup: "startups are a temporary organization designed to search for a scalable and repeatable business model.". Solid, concrete advice in this book - advice you can disagree with, not just apple pie advice.

Compare "Four Steps" to "do more faster", another highly recommended startup book.

First, both books have off-putting titles. I'm much more likely to buy a book called "The Customer Development Model" than anything that sounds like it's marketed to the naive or flaky: "epiphany?", "do more faster?". Can we please stay pragmatic and grounded?

Apart from that, the books are worlds apart. "Four Steps" _is_ pragmatic and grounded. The "do more faster" book starts with an essay by Tim Ferriss, the author of "The 4-hour workweek."

As long as we're talking about Steve Blank, here's a couple of other books that I've read and liked because of things I've read on his blog/book:

* Business Model Generation, by Osterwalder & Pigneur

* Crystal Fire, by Riordan & Hoddeson

* A Radar History of World War II, by Brown

The last two book because of his "secret history of silicon valley" posts.

</comment><comment><USER3> Highly recommended: <http://www.custdev.com/>

(E-)book that summarizes the 4 Steps into a usable reference guide, with case studies mixed in.

</comment><comment><USER4> Just read this in the last month and devoured it. I'm currently doing a lot of thinking about how to apply the ideas that drive entrepreneurship to the international development sector and the ah-ha moments from this book were incredible. Interesting to see the parallels - both sectors are trying to solve poorly defined and understood problems with new solutions, especially in the case of a new market.

I think this leads to a lot relevant lessons to be learned between the sectors - mostly international development learning from entrepreneurship. Just started a series of blog posts on this here: [http://theborrowedbicycle.ca/2010/11/tech-startups-and- human...](http://theborrowedbicycle.ca/2010/11/tech-startups-and-human- development-different-worlds/)

</comment><comment><USER5> This book has been very expensive in the UK. So I wrote to someone at Steve's ranch and ordered a bunch at bulk rate, which I'll sell cheaply soon. If you're interested, please sign up at <http://laughingcomputer.com>.

</plug>

</comment><comment><USER6> I'd love to get this book in Kindle format. Anyone know if an ebook version is coming?

</comment><comment><USER7> And you still can't order it in Germany :(

<comment><AUTHOR> If you want to buy this book and can't, email me from my contact info. We'll figure out a way to get it and ship it to you.

That's really whacked. It's also whacked that a kindle format isn't out. Lots of folks who would like to read this book -- and would benefit from it -- can't seem to get connected. We need to fix that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Read it last year at Zed Shaw's recommendation. Very terse writing, but a great deal of valuable information.

</comment><comment><USER9> lots of good stuff on the author's blog as well:

<http://steveblank.com/>

</comment><comment><USER10> I wish this book had been available around 1996! Even so, I'm glad to have read it more recently.</comment>


How I Beat Depression - <AUTHOR> http://hackerhmb.tumblr.com/post/45169323236/how-i-beat-depression <comment><USER3> I would say the suggestion to work with a doctor should be struck and replaced with a suggestion to work with a psychotherapist or psychiatrist. Doctors (other than psychiatrists) are not trained to deal with mental illness beyond diagnosis and prescription. You'll need to see a doctor if you want to try drugs, but the only reason to have an ongoing relationship with a doctor is so you can try different drugs if the first one they prescribe you doesn't work.

Your doctor _might_ provide helpful counseling, but then again, so might a teacher, clergyman, friend, or any other untrained person. (I suppose these are all worth trying if you know one who might help you.)

Psychotherapists, on the other hand, dedicate their professional lives to EXACTLY what you want: relief of suffering from mental illness. It isn't an exact science, and your therapist's particular background, talents, and personality make a big difference, so it isn't like there's a professional qualification that guarantees good results, but at least their professional goals, training, and experience aim at what you need instead of at something else entirely.

<comment><USER4> In the UK the family doctor (GP) acts as a gatekeeper to other services. Thus, seeing your doctor is excellent advice for people in the UK who are depressed. Your general point - don't get the treatment from a regular doctor - is a good point.

In theory you should get a quick assessment, and then a referral to PCAT team (Primary Care Assessment and Treatment) - these people will either take you on for short form talking therapy (probably cognitive behaviour therapy) with possibly some medication; or they'll refer you on to a community team; or they'll send you back to the GP.

The doctor may skip the PCAT referral and send you straight to a community team. They'll do an assessment and either take you on, or send you back to the GP with advice for treatment.

If a community team take you on you'll get a care coordinator, a care plan, a consultant (psychiatrist), and access to different meds and different therapies. Frustratingly, you might not be allowed access to short form CBT while registered with a community team. If you need hospital you'll get hospital.

In an emergency the GP will just call the crisis team for you (in theory crisis teams are available to anyone who needs them at any time, but it's usually better to go though a GP unless the crisis team already know you). The crisis team will assess you for a stay in hospital (either informally (voluntarily) or under section of the MHA (detained against your will to protect your safety)).

Of course, that's the theory and often the practice differs.

And, you can avoid some of that process by getting a private psychotherapist. Look for BACP registration. (There are probably other good registration, but BACP is the one I know.)

About psychiatrist:

I've met lots of psychiatrists.

They've almost always been "odd".

To become a psychiatrist in the UK you need to do the regular medical school. That turns you from a medical student into a doctor. (But not a doctor that can practice unsupervised.) You then do Foundation Year One and FY Two. (This is practice, supervised, in hospitals etc.) You then become a registrar. Eventually you become a consultant in your chosen speciality, which gives you the power to practice unsupervised.

All of this means that you have great, up to date, in depth knowledge of modern treatments and medications. It also means you're a bit of a basket case to make it through that process. Your bedside manner is likely to be interesting.

I'd strongly recommend people avoid psychiatrists unless the illness is severe or resistant to other forms of treatment.

As always: I am not a doctor and I have no training and all of this is just my opinion and etc etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Exercise is incredibly important b/c of all the positive neurochemical effects it produces.

But if you're exercising by yourself, it's easy to skip it, especially if you're already feeling down.

It's better to take part in some kind of team or class activity where there's a little bit of social pressure to show up.

There will be mornings when you think, "I don't want to go, but I don't want to let those guys down," and so you wind up doing it.

<comment><USER6> Exercise is almost never a bad idea. However, the evidence that it helps with depression has recently come under question: [http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120822-does-exercise- help-...](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120822-does-exercise-help- depression)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> this is the biggest misconception when it comes to clinical depression... that you can or did beat it. You can never or will never beat clinical depression, only suppress it. Beating something is finite and means that it can never happen again. The author gives great advice in the article about what steps he did to suppress this bout of depression, though if he doesn't stay the course chances are it will come back. The scary thing about clinical depression is, even if you continue to do the things that worked in the past to suppress it, it can still come back.

The one piece of advice that he doesn't give (or he might have and i'm just not catching it) is realizing that you have to listen to the people around you when they tell you that you look depressed. At that point, you need to get help immediately so you don't fall further down the hole.

btw... I'm not a doctor or anything. Let's just say that I have extensive experience with clinical depression and bipolar disorder.

<comment><USER8> I came here to say something similar - you do not "get over" clinical depression caused by a biochemical imbalance in your brain. It does not get fixed without making biochemical changes to your brain.

The advice the author gives is very sound advice (exercise, for example, does indeed induce biochemical changes in your brain), but without first becoming convinced of the advantages of getting treated, and taking the time to understand how those treatments effect you and how you need to actively participate in them, the rest of his suggestions are near impossible to follow through on.

The stigma around psychological and psychiatric care do not help the situation; however, the numerous stories on these issues here on HN I do hope shed some light on those that are still suffering without help to know that there always is a chance to get better, and it can be as easy as calling your doctor or telling your friend you need help. Or even talking to one of us here who have been suffering from depression and suicidal ideations for many years - I certainly would be more than happy to talk with anyone who is struggling with these issues.

<comment><USER9> Except exercise _does_ make biochemical changes in the brain. One example: <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3311131/>

<comment><USER10> I don't know why someone downvoted you, that's an excellent point. I think that in some subset of people currently requiring medication, some may be able to replace it with exercise to successfully treat it. I don't know about other people, but though I need both medication and exercise, the latter makes me feel discernibly much better. The medication just gets me out of bed and into my running shoes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> There are different shades of depression, some more manageable than others. I don't think medical science (or anyone) has figured out the worst of it yet. Author David Foster Wallace before his suicide: "The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."

</comment><comment><USER12> Cognitive behavioral therapy is also very effective in many cases (and can work on its own without medication, depending on the situation).

<comment><USER13> I'm a huge fan of CBT. Recent studies have shown that if a person is dedicated to CBT it can actually have the same positive effects on the brain as medication, without the negative effects of medication.

It is important to note, however, that the person must commit.

<comment><USER7> and its also important to note that just because it worked for your buddy doesn't mean its going to work for you. it also means that just because it worked one time doesn't mean its going to work the next time. the best thing to do is to be monitored by a doctor so you can get the medical help right away if you need it.

<comment><USER13> If you are working with any competent professional they should be able to identify when you will need medical help right away.

There is a huge movement in north america to through drugs at everything. In Europe they take an entirely different approach on a lot of front and are seeing more success than us in those areas (ADD immediately comes to mind)

I'm not against medication, but I am against rushing to medication. I'd much rather someone try various forms of therapy first. CBT is just one of them, and happens to be working at a rate equal to or greater than prescription medication.

Edit: I wanted to thank you for the reply. Discussion surrounding the topic is critical to progression.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> What if you're depressed because you're afraid of death?

(I wouldn't say I'm depressed -- not in the clinical sense anyway; but I do spend what I imagine is an abnormal amount of time thinking about it because of mother's passing away when I was younger).

<comment><USER15> _What if you're depressed because you're afraid of death?_

In that case, you shouldn't take any advice from HN unless that advice is to talk to a professional.

It's a lot like legal advice, sure people on the internet can talk about the issues, but they're probably wrong and even if they're right it's still unwise to take what they say at face value. The people with the professional capacity to help you can't do it well online for all the obvious reasons.

<comment><USER16> That only partially makes sense. For comments/suggestions found on HN that have potential side effects, absolutely take them with a grain of salt and consult a professional... i.e. medication, psychedelics, etc.

But for some of the suggestions, the advice is fantastic. Exercise more? Eat healthier foods at regular intervals? Practice positive thinking about the world and your life? Any one of them could help. ALL of them could help. And they can't hurt. Take every piece of "no-strings-attached" advice you can... and then ALSO consult a professional.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I don't think one can actually _beat_ depression but instead only really cope with the symptoms. I know that sounds awful and kind of defeatist (and I could be wrong) but I think the idea that you can actually conquer this disease sets you up for failure.

I first noticed my own depression when I was just a 13 year old kid and first sought help just before the end of high school. I've been through the entire range of emotion from hopelessness to being suicidal and through it all I was always most upset that I couldn't actually beat it. I would try and fight so hard to make it just go away permanently and be like "normal" people but it just never happened. I eventually took to self medicating and became a polydrug abusing heroin addict for about 5 years.

Five years later I realize that, for me, there is no "beating" it. There's just learning to cope with it. Before I realized this my main focus was trying to make the terrible way I felt just go away and to be happy. Now, rather than fight it, I work around it. I realize that a negative mood or feeling of worthlessness is not objectively true but instead just part of the sickness just like the author here says.

In addition to most of what this post talked about I would say the most important thing is knowledge of self. To recognize and realize that what you're experiencing at any given time is really a complete distortion of reality is step one to recovering. Then to know what triggers those thoughts and knowing what works best for you in terms of mitigating them is the ultimate goal (with the understanding, of course, that you may not be able to completely defeat the experience but certainly minimize it). I learned these things and now, five years later, I still have depression but it's not debilitating. Whenever it decides to come around I'm able to push it aside completely or mitigate those symptoms and I've been able to do that because I've built the kind of lifestyle where people rely on me and I'm often running from one activity to another. Some might say it sounds like running from the disease but really my busy lifestyle is what keeps it at bay. Rather than having the time to dwell on how awful life is and how worthless of a person I am, at worst I'll have thoughts like "shit, now I have to go do this thing and I totally suck at it and everyone hates me" which isn't exactly a great thought but certainly beats being alone thinking of killing yourself and when I finally reach my destination and do whatever I need to do I've proven to myself that whatever I was thinking before was just plain wrong. Again, that's a worst case scenario. I've gotten to a point now where thoughts like that are the minority thankfully.

So I'd just hope anyone else struggling with clinical depression is able to take a step back and evaluate their own thinking, understanding their own vulnerabilities and coping mechanisms in addition to seeking out lots of professional help (and yeah, exercising is amazing for this disease).

<comment><USER18> I've suffered from MDD and tried to kill myself several times, the last attempt was very serious and I almost did die.

Now, almost a decade later and I think I can say I _have_ "beaten" depression. The cure? Time, therapy, loving intimate relationships and judicious use of psychedelics.

<comment><USER19> I'm curious about the psychedelics, can you share more? What drugs? How often?

<comment><USER18> If you explore my previous comments and submissions you'll find some information about these matters.

In summary, there are a great deal of published resources about psychedelics, but they tend to be inaccessible to those without a good deal of psychedelic experience coupled with a penchant for reading academic or esoteric literature. Thus, for largely sociological reasons, most 'typical' modern users of psychedelics are not at all schooled in academic knowledge about them. On the other hand, the vast majority of systematizing, intelligent, intellectual types do not have sufficient experience with these compounds to really understand or effectively critique the literature about them.

So I'll mention a few quality sources that, if you study them, will almost assuredly arouse your curiosity:

* The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide (published book)

* The Antipodes of the Mind (published book)

* The Journal of Psychoactive Drugs (not just about psychedelics)

* Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved (published book, of particular edification and interest are the essays that precede the synthesis portion of the text)

* The research done by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)

LSD has proven itself to be quiet beneficial in social situations many times in my life. For example, while 'up' on a moderate dose of high quality LSD, I watched a very attractive guy play guitar and sing at a house show. This led to me having an amazing fantasy experience days later where I finally started to deeply connect to my sexual desire for other men. This precipitated my decision to affirm my bisexual inclinations and pursue them, thus overthrowing years of internalized shame and confusion regarding this issue.

DMT and other very potent tryptamines have also proven to be potentially valuable in my experience. For example, while under the influence of a powerful dose of an orally administered research chemical tryptamine, I literally was able to relive my previous suicide attempt and forgive myself for such self destructive violence in a very deep and healing way. Words literally can't describe the true magnitude of the experience and the positive after effects are still in my life and personality years later.

Not very often but not infrequently either.

<comment><USER19> Thank you for sharing this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> There are reasonably priced sunlamps that I hear good things about in the treatment of depression. Also, use common sense: pursue positive people (and avoid negative), exercise (no matter how lightly), eat healthy, pursue goals (no matter how trivial). There are multiple avenues to happiness, and pursue the ones that your body responds to.

</comment><comment><USER21> Hello,

Can anyone provide any advice on how to help a friend through depression? I met this friend about a month and half ago and he recently opened up to me about his depression. He's been in and out of depression since high school (about three years I think; he is currently on medications and getting help; he's reached out to me first (we're studying abroad in Asia) and I would like to help in anyway possible. My questions are:

1) How much do I reach out and ask to hang out/eat/etc.? 2) What are the boundaries I should be aware of? Should I bring up the depression and ask him how he's doing every day? other day? week? 3) Any general advice (I went through semi-depression for about 6 months, but it was not anywhere near as drastic) (I also helped a friend through depression last year which was almost suicidal)

Thank you. I appreciate any advice you can provide.

<comment><USER22> Having a strong social support network is a good foundation for dealing with depression. My best advice to you is just be available for when he wants to talk. Let him know that if he ever needs to talk, be it day or night, you're there for him and that he can call you. Thoughts of suicidal ideation or self- harm can come at any time and he will need someone to talk to during those times.

Onto your other questions. The amount of time that he spends hanging out with any individual won't matter too much; having him be in company with people he enjoys several times a week is what is key. What this means is, it doesn't have to be you particularly but if he is hanging-out with others at least 2 or 3 times a week it would be beneficial.

The only boundaries that exist are the ones he implements. Generally, you'll just need to ask him how he's doing and not 'remind' him of his depression everyday, but how often you do that should be down to him to decide.

The best piece of advice I can give, is to observe him. If there is a drastic change in behavior or energy level, that is when you need to intervene and either try to get him to talk or just get him out of the house.

Overall, the above article is a good basis for coping with depression. The author hinted at, but never explicitly said, two key points that I feel the need to reiterate. If your friend is taking medication or is thinking about medication it can take awhile to take effect, on the magnitude of weeks or months, and that not all depression medication is the same - if one pill isn't working move onto others. Second, if your friend is seeing a therapist, again, not all therapist are the same. If he is not connecting with the therapist personally then his treatment is going to be much less effective.

I hope that helps.

<comment><USER21> Thank you very much - I really appreciate your advice. He recently switched medication, and I'll ask him if he's noticed any changes yet. Thank you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> It's impossible to "think yourself" out of depression or "do something good" out of depression, unless it's just a temporary down mood.

The way I beat depression is by doing pure mental exercises on focusing on the actual physical areas of the body where depression is felt, without trying to change/fight/eliminate the feeling itself.

I came up with this technique during lowest point of my life and was almost shocked how fast I moved from suicidal to almost fully content state.

This proved to be very powerful technique as it dissolved pain at it's roots. The speed of that approach for me was like taking antibiotics compare to taking vitamins.

I can also second advice on exercise and better eating habits.

<comment><USER24> It sounds like you independently discovered mindfulness meditation. Good for you!

<comment><USER23> I actually practiced mindfullness meditation with, lets say it, zero results. The method I used is more, like: "love your enemy" or rather "love your pain", or more precisely be aware of the areas of the body which are feeling pain. Negative thoughts are just light energy sparks causing pain within the body. This bodily pain is heavier, more resident energy that could become alive on it's own, even without further thinking. It was really frustrating to me to wake up in the beautiful morning and within 2 seconds feel heavy wave of depression dawning on me again. I didn't even had time to think and was wondering why it is happening to be. Until i realized that depression lives in the body, not in the mind. Once I started paying attention to the body, the depressive thoughts and depressive emotions starts to disappear. This is more what Eckhart Tolle was writing about, albeit without specifics that I added to my practice.

As i started to see results - I started having fun with it, like looking for negative emotional reactions within me on different thoughts or situations and then frying and washing these emotions off and away by applying the method.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Maybe this will help someone: A lot of times suicidal thoughts are not about a death wish but about a wish for silence in your head. I think realizing this can make a difference. Whatever the case: don't be ashamed, get help.

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm really happy that these posts are getting onto the front page. They are very important.

I want to add one thing. Working with a doctor is important, but work with a psychologist as well. Especially if you are resistant to going on meds (and I don't blame you if you are...). A good psychologist may be able to offer you treatment options that better suit your needs.

Also, if you aren't getting what you need from your Dr or Psychologist then move on and find a new one. Keep doing this until you find someone who genuinely cares about you, and wants to work with you to get you feeling better.

<comment><USER26> Medications obviously aren't for everyone, and certainly there's no one size fits all medication, but as someone who tried several medications that interfered with my clarity of mind, finding Wellbutrin has made a real difference for me. It works along a different pathway than other anti- depressants. It's known to increase focus. Rather than feeling like I was experiencing the world through gauze, I feel more... like me, sans the crippling depression.

YMMV, but I find that every (exceedingly legitimate) objection I have towards medication simply became immaterial in the face of feeling better.

<comment><USER27> Feeling "more like yourself" is one of the more common descriptions of what it feels like to be on a medication that's working. I'm glad you found something that worked and you're feeling better.

<comment><USER28> I always feel like myself, and myself is always changing. I just prefer the versions of myself that aren't bleeding profusely or have eye-burning headache or dizziness when I stand up or lower back pain or etc etc

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Just a couple of notes on the medication part:

Yes, you will probably feel worse during the first couple of weeks of the regimen. This is common enough that your prescribing doctor should warn you about it, and s/he should set up some way of monitoring your progress - appointments twice a week for the first month or something like that. It should also be clear from the documentation that comes with the pills.

Second, you should only change your medication after consulting with your doctor. In this case it looks like the course was "I took the meds for six months, and then I felt better so I stopped", which is not recommended. The relapse rate is significantly lowered if you take the meds until you have no symptoms + 6 months (or longer, if it isn't your first depression).

Third, it really is very recommended to slowly taper of the medication and not go cold turkey. The side effects will be much worse if you just stop. Also, the relapse rate. Once again, discuss any planned changes in your medication with your doctor.

</comment><comment><USER30> I've been fighting depression since one year ago and I'd like to share my story with you guys and hope to get some warming advices. Quick introduction: I've always been a self-educated about computer science, but my mother always wanted to see me studying in a _regular/acknowledged_ way. When I turned 25, I started feeling very bad: my career in information technology was going really good and since I didn't passed through the academical stages (exams, graduation, etc) I felt like I didn't really deserve such professional "glory" (sorry for quick and dirt english).

So I decided to join the university: I started passing exams, and finally I could go to bed with a clear conscience! One year ago I received a job offer from a big enterprise, a job that could have change my life. This job (9h/5d) would not allow me to continue my university career and they gave me one week to decide. It was really hard, and in the end I refused that job.

My odyssey begins from this point. I had a panic attack on the first day of university after my choice, a huge panic attack that I thought: "I'm gonna die". After that event, my condition degenerated: I was no longer able to go out from my house, neither going downstairs to feed the dog. Everytime I went outside, I had a panic attack, it was a nightmare. Because of this hard form of agoraphobia I was neither able to go out and see a psychiatrist. I also developed tinnitus in my left ear and a painful hypochondria.

It took about 4/5 months before I realized the actual cause of my depression: in this age of economical crisis, when people commits suicides for not being able to pay debts, I rejected a permanent full-time contract. After this realization, my condition started going slightly better: I had no more panic attacks and I was able to go out with my gf and my friends.

At the time of this writing, one year after my first crisis, I'm still not able to go to places with many people, ot taking a train, or staying away from home for too long.

I see that such a condition is common to many computer programmers, I think that alienation caused by working on computers make things worse. At some point, I also considered the option of giving up with computer science, but it's not possible, it's really the only thing I can do.

I'm still fighting depression, I'm still not able to answer the questions "where would you be now to be happy?" , "what would you be doing now to be happy?". It's really sad when you can't answers these questions. Is it ever happened to you? How did you behave?

<comment><USER31> I'm sorry to hear about your predicament pawnhearts. Have you managed to get to a counsellor yet?

<comment><USER30> Not yet, ZenoArrow.

I'm "fear of fear", and I can't be strong enough to face up regular life situations. And I have to find a solution, I have to find the strenght to do something before summer comes. Hot wheter increases depression.

At the moment I'm trying to work less and study/read/distract more. I spend great time on the road by car on my own or with my girlfriend, going nowhere and listening to some music I used to listen when everything "was fine".

Some times I can't even remember "how I was" before the whole depression thing. I look at my old pictures and I think to myself: "I was this guy. Really? I used to go to concerts, meet a lot of people, everybody used to love me. Who am I now? And why?"

<comment><USER31> I'm sorry to hear you have had tough times recently pawnhearts.

I understand that the road to recovery might feel hard to find, but you'll maximise your chances of finding it if you can get help from others. Please contact a counsellor. Reaching out for help is a humbling but often vital part of emotional recovery. If you can please do it today or tomorrow.

One piece of advice I can give you now is that looking back at who you were and trying to recreate that isn't likely to be helpful to you. Instead, consider what you can do now to help improve things in the future. If you're not sure where to start (apart from contacting a counsellor as discussed), can always start with improving your diet, finding time to exercise and getting into good habits with your sleep pattern. It's surprising how much our mood is influenced by these things, and they are simple tasks to focus on.

Best of luck with your recovery. :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> _Stay open and allow others to help. Realize you need people around you to who can be a support network. This is the hardest thing to do when you are suffering from depression._

Couldn't agree more. When I was suffering from depression, I was so stubborn about wanting to face it alone and not "force" my friends and family to get involved, because I'd be becoming even more of a burden to them and to society than I already felt I was. I just felt this burning sense of shame and worthlessness at the mere thought of asking for help.

Hackers are admired more than ever, but I think it comes with a price. When everyone sees you as this superman who can make and do anything and knows everything, it's gotta make it that much harder to reach out for help.

</comment><comment><USER33> Having read a lot of the comments here there seems to be two main thoughts. That depression isn't something that can be beaten and that it can be beaten.

Personally I think both camps are right, in many of the cases where people have beaten depression I think there is a common element be it Cognitive Behavior Therapy or psychedelics these practices can change your brain. Meditation can also change your brain significantly and this is how I believe I have 'beaten' depression.

So no you can't beat depression without changing your brain and changing your brain can be a risky business and perhaps when you do change your brain you are no longer the you that was depressed...

</comment><comment><USER34> The points are good however usually the depressed person can't do anything by him/herself. In my own case, I was not going out of my house for very long time and I avoided seeing any people I knew. I did not admit that I am depressed so I was blaming myself so much which was draining me as well. The only thing I knew was 'Realize you can get better' and I knew if my certain problem gets solved then I will get better but I did not have any energy to do that. After a year I found a girlfriend which helped me a lot on that problem until it was finished. It was such a tough time!

</comment><comment><USER35> This is a really important post. Something I've noticed is that more people climb in the Bay Area than anywhere I've ever been before. I wonder if its at all related to the stress and personalities contained there?

<comment><USER36> The West is also a great place for climbing (geographically speaking) - <USER2> better than many places I've lived... but I'll also vouch for climbing being a great activity. Ultimate Frisbee as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I think the key to dealing with mental conditions is to identify/diagnose/recognize it, accept it and work with professionals to learn to manage it. My own struggle was with acceptance. In my mind, my depression was due to the label placed on me via diagnosis. It took over a decade to find the right support system. My advice to those with mental conditions is to "Never give up!" May sound cliche... Yet although these conditions may not be curable, they can be manageable.

<comment><USER37> here's an account of my own bout with a mental health condition:

[http://adriancunanan.com/blog/2013/3/12/heres-to-the- crazy-o...](http://adriancunanan.com/blog/2013/3/12/heres-to-the-crazy-ones)

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> I'll agree with the working out regularly being good for your health, both mental and physical. Exercising has gotten me through some tough spots in my life and it has always been a major coping mechanism.

Another thing that has always worked for me has been laughter. Whether it's watching a classic movie like Dumb & Dumber, reading reddit/r/funny, or catching The Colbert Report, laughing eases all the little things that otherwise might eat you up.

</comment><comment><USER39> Everything that makes you happy or sad is in your mind. So I would suggest that it is not about beating depression but achieving a balance of the two. One cannot completely eliminate depression type or extreme joy type feelings from one's life. So it is good to develop a balance that leads to the understanding that shit happens. But this too shall pass.

</comment><comment><USER6> One other thing worth noting: consider whether you might actually be bipolar, especially if antidepressants aren't really working for you or make you worse. A lot of Bipolar II cases (where manic states aren't as dramatic and depressive symptoms dominate) are misdiagnosed as unipolar depression.

</comment><comment><USER40> Walking definitely helps. Last year was a particularly rough one for me in a lot of ways and just going back to the mountain town where I grew up and hiking for a few hours in the forest really helped me to change my outlook. I consider it the most important thing I did.

</comment><comment><USER41> Thank you for this post. Your post really rings true for me. I have been suffering from depression for the past year, but this week has been especially bad. I hadn't sought help until recently. I have been encountering many of the things you describe.

</comment><comment><USER42> Fischer Wallace Cranial Stimulator + Neurotransmitter Supplements (5HTP, etc)

This is worth a try for anyone with depression. There are many different causes, but brain chemistry can be an issue caused by your lifestyle alone, as well as other stuff.

</comment><comment><USER43> Don't forget natural sunlight.

</comment><comment><USER44> I am wondering if anyone has tried any online intervention for anxiety or depression. Some of them have strong theoretical background (like CBT that is mentioned in another comment). Any impressions?

<comment><USER45> Online access would make it much more accessible, especially for those who are introverted and have social anxiety like me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Matches well with this: [http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelellsberg/2011/07/18/how-i...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelellsberg/2011/07/18/how- i-overcame-bipolar-ii/)

</comment><comment><USER47> Great perspective. Question for the HN community: Why/How is it that small communities like HN have removed the stigma attached with mental health while larger society has not?

<comment><USER16> There's a lot less stigma attached when it's a (relatively) anonymous forum, when you're not face-to-face with the people responding, when you have a large support group because people who understand and care find YOU (via your headline) rather than you having to find them, and when someone who responds in a negative way is likely to get downvoted and called an asshole.

There are probably still people on HN who respond negatively to an admission of depression, but they're (wisely) keeping quiet.

<comment><USER27> I've never considered my username here to be particularly anonymous. Apparently it is, as I just discovered, but anyone who knows me would recognize my username.

To be honest, the number of people who are open about mental health problems in posts like this is fairly surprising to me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Try 2+ years of it, unfortunately (for them) someone is going to 1 up me now.

</comment><comment><USER49> powerful tools for fighting depression: 1) learn to dance and go dancing regularly (for ex. salsa or tango) 2) take cold showers daily 3) exercise

<comment><USER45> Why cold showers?

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> These can be very hard things to do when you're depressed. It helps if you have someone motivating you. I'm on my way out of a pretty serious slump and the same things have helped me as this article has described. I've been surrounded by positive family members, I've been on a generic of Lexapro, I've been running/jogging/fast-walking two miles a day and I've been reminding myself that I _didn't_ feel this way a year ago and that in a year I might feel completely better again.

Anyone who's ever been depressed knows that even on a good day, just _thinking_ about your depression can evoke panic and sadness and a "relapse". I'm using the Seinfeld calendar system. I try to keep up a streak of good days and use that to motivate and reassure me. (Frankly, the fact that I even clicked on this topic and wrote a comment means I'm feeling better. I had to skim and mentally skip over much of HN during the weeks after Aaron's suicide. :( )

</comment><comment><USER51> Heroin helped me beat my bouts of depression, although the downside being extremely addictive which seems to bring you right back where you started but in all honesty, depression is caused by fixation, ironically heroin taught me how to relax and "let go" of the angst caused by fixation while at the same time my mind was completely fixated on it. To each his own, you gotta stop reading about how to cure an illness, you have to act, find meaning even though it's meaningless.

</comment><comment><USER51> Also a more interesting question would be, are people working in startup, especially single software vendors more susceptible to depression? Look at Aaron Schwartz guy, all those times he was depressed, look at his increasingly erratic and tendency towards martyrdom. The pressure from idiot zealots finally tipped him.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm the author of the article and I asked myself this question before I wrote it. I posted some data here which came out of that research: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5272763> but it didn't get much traction. When I compared across disciplines in the original dataset (using software programmer as the discipline) there wasn't a strong indication that they were more prone to suicide than other professional jobs. I don't remember exactly but doctors, lawyers, dentists were toward the top of that list.

One challenge is that the dataset I reference doesn't have data post 1998. Since our discipline has grown and changed since then a more recent dataset might show something more interesting.

<comment><USER51> I think the actual software programmer job working for a company is different than someone working alone erratic hours, building apps, marketing, selling, and breaking even. It's quite challenging in itself to produce good software product let alone selling it and breaking even so it'd be interesting to see some statistics for single founder startups or micro software vendors.

I would say the stress is the biggest for SaaS type of software products, as someone posted a video here about "Constant Contact", it's described as the slow ramp of death because it takes so long and hard to reach that magic upward slope.

These are all just my magical assumptions based on my own situation and experience. I'm sure there's ton of positive, empathetic, emotionally intelligent coder/hacker/entrepreneurs although there's lot of Aspies, who studies have shown to be greater risk of depression.

<comment><USER28> Stress (and financial instability) has its own set of health problems, but that's not depression. Depression has more mundane physical and neurological causes, whereas stress disorders are caused by the pressures of difficult lifestyles like running a business on your last nickel or being ultraompetitive in your career or being a soldier at war.</comment></comment></comment></comment>