NTPsec is not quite a full rewrite - <AUTHOR> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6881 <comment><USER2>
        * strcpy, strncpy, strcat:  Use strlcpy and strlcat instead.
        * sprintf, vsprintf: use snprintf and vsnprintf instead.
        * In scanf and friends, the %s format without length limit is banned.
        * strtok: use strtok_r() or unroll this into the obvious loop.
        * gets: Use fgets instead.
        * gmtime(), localtime(), asctime(), ctime(): use the reentrant *_r variants.
        * tmpnam() - use mkstemp() or tmpfile() instead.
        * dirname() - the Linux version is re-entrant but this property is not portable.

And so, instead of competent systems code of 1995 vintage, we get ESR code of 1998 vintage.

Presumably, someone else, somewhere else, is solving the problem that needs to be solved, which is to get an NTP implementation that is simple but complete enough for the 98% use case deployed based either on thoroughly modern C code (which looks nothing like a heap of strlcats and snprintfs) or a safer language, like Rust or Go.

Maybe that's ntimed, maybe it's something else. It's not this, whatever the hell this is going to turn out to be.

<comment><USER3> So, were I to seek examples of such "thoroughly modern C code" in order to educate myself, do you have some suggestions where to look?

In particular, would you recommend to do string handling with some string library (e.g. glib has one?), or just use the mem*() functions and manually keep track of the lengths, or what?

<comment><USER2> Check out the recent AGL story on BoringSSL for an idea of what a conversion from 90s C code to modern C code looks like.

Yes: do string handling with high-level string abstractions. No, don't try to freelance it with the mem-() functions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting, this and phk's ntimed are both sponsored by the Linux Foundation. I guess it makes sense on some level to have concurrent projects that tackle the same problem from different directions.

<comment><USER5> Here's ESR's comment on ntimed ([http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6863&cpage=1#comment-1635375](http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6863&cpage=1#comment-1635375)):

 _esr on 2015-10-09 at 09:22:05 said:

>Eric, what do you think of ntimed and their goal of replacing ntpd?

PHK is a bright guy with many clues. I respect him a lot, and I say this despite the fact that he's hostile to me because he thinks my open-source advocacy has encouraged crappy programming. I have not looked closely at ntimed but I have little doubt it is high-quality work, probably as good as anything I am capable of producing, possibly better.

That said, I think ntimed is going nowhere. A clean-sheet design was the right thing from a technical point of view, but it's not what the time-service userbase wants. Large time-service users are intensely conservative and risk- averse; what they want, and what NTPsec will deliver, is not radical innovation but a cleaned-up and hardened version of what they know._

The only active GitHub ntimed fork is for the Amiga/AROS version, and phk's GitHub visible work as of late seems to be mostly on Varnish Cache.

<comment><USER4> _> > I have not looked closely at ntimed but I have little doubt it is high- quality work, probably as good as anything I am capable of producing, possibly better._

Ok, that is just precious. =) One is a kernel hacker and time-nuts regular with one of the world's most precise clocks in his home, and the other recently wrote:

 _> There's a longstanding legend that only Dave Mills ever really understood the Byzantine time-synchronization algorithms at NTP's heart, but I used to be a mathematician and I think I already get most of it outside of a few arcana about statistical filtering of noisy signals._

From a purely technical standpoint, I know who I'd bet my money on.

By the way, phk recently mentioned that he was getting back into ntimed, so fingers crossed that we get two safe and correct NTP alternatives in the observable future.

[https://twitter.com/allanjude/status/635635386832715777](https://twitter.com/allanjude/status/635635386832715777)

<comment><USER5> While he said as of August 23rd that he's agin working on ntimed, that's not reflected in GitHub updates: [https://github.com/bsdphk/Ntimed](https://github.com/bsdphk/Ntimed)

And it bears mentioning that ESR has been working on GPSD for more than a decade (a daemon to extract accurate time from GPS receivers), and he sure _sounds_ math literate to my not entirely untutored ears in various discussions over the years.

Given the well known curse of total rewrites, which I've experienced myself, I too know who I'd bet my money on.

<comment><USER6> > "he sure sounds math literate"

This is the standard ESR parlor trick. Eric took several courses in math and philosophy at the University of Pennsylvania.

[http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/03/interview-with-eric- raym...](http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/03/interview-with-eric-raymond.html) "As a freshman at the University of Pennsylvania Raymond was immediately marked out as a potential math prodigy. Having found school insufficiently stretching for his above average talents, however, he lacked the necessary discipline or emotional maturity to cope with the demands of an undergraduate course, and after suffering a "math burnout" left without a degree."

I'd put my money on phk. Every. Time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Hilarious reading, of course, "I do have an an advantage because I'm very bright"

</comment><comment><USER8> There's at least one thing ESR and phk agree on - the autoconf situation.

I'm looking at the list of tests done in current ntpd.

* Checking whether compiler accepts -g * Checking whether compiler supports C89 * Checking if stdlib.h exists * Check if compiler supports -o * Hunts for just about every command line tool, sed, awk, ln, grep * Is size_t a type?

There are dozens of checks that could be replaced with "Checking for OS = Windows".

There are specific code paths for Digital Unix 4.0, a fix specific to AIX 4.3 with the comment "hopefully adding ... fixing this without breaking any other platform", Ultrix, winnt3.5?,

How many NTP developers routinely test new code against all these platforms?

However it's done, more big name programs need to move on from this.

</comment><comment><USER9> One thing that I find a bit worrying is that there are now two projects that try to create better implementations of the existing ntp protocol, but the protocol itself is inherently insecure. ntp right now is a clear-text protocol with no authentication and no protection at all against man-in-the-middle- attacks. There are two authentication modes from which one is insecure and the other relies on symmetric keys, which is impractical.

There's some work done on ntp security [1], I hope we'll see this implemented soon.

[1] [https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for- ntp](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp)

<comment><USER10> I am assuming that when you refer to "the other project trying to create a better implementation" you are referring to ntimed? It seems that you are forgetting about Chrony and OpenNTPd.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> A real-time guard can handle most of what it needs: packet-inspection, rate limiting, spotting NTP layer abuse, transport security, authentication, small TCB, real-time, etc. Highly-assured guards have been used for about every other insecure app and protocol so I don't see why not this one.

Throw in tech like Code Pointer Integrity or Softbound on client side for extra measure. Or reimplement it in an inherently safer language.</comment>


StartupToDo.com - <AUTHOR> http://startuptodo.com <comment><USER2> That's a brave move, charging for the aggregation of content, and getting the community who pays you to help write said content.

I suspect if this takes off there will be a free alternative that takes this websites place in short order, regardless of how cheap it is.</comment>


Show HN: My fancy new homepage - <AUTHOR> http://ptb.io/ <comment><USER2> This isn't finished.. Your about page gives the following:

>Hey there! This page is included as an example. Feel free to customize it for your own use upon downloading. Carry on!

<comment><AUTHOR> ooops, totally forgot about that! Thanks..

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Maybe keep the menu open by default on desktop? Also, don't push the content when opening the menu?</comment>


'Get Ready for Brexit' Campaign Launched - <AUTHOR> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/get-ready-for-brexit-campaign-launched <comment><USER2> > Launch of largest ever government public information campaign to get public > and business owners ready for Brexit.

While I accept the result here, this is basically the end of the UK tech industry. __*

I would have hoped for better news than this, but it seems that Brexit will wipe out the 'talent' that is in the UK and will make the job search for 'tech skills' even scarce.

Looks like the hedge-funds are just going to get alot richer.

 __* If a no-deal Brexit happens that is.

</comment><comment><USER3> "Based on your responses, you do not need to take any action to prepare for the Brexit deadline of 31 October 2019."

Thanks, but I think I'll start my panic buying now - if only to avoid the rush.</comment>


A Nobel Prize-winning physicist sold his medal for $765,000 to pay medical bills - <AUTHOR> https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/10/4/17936626/leon-lederman-nobel-prize-medical-bills <comment><USER2> Ummm.... this would happen in Canada as well. Nursing home care is subsidized, but only after you have exhausted your own personal assets or income.

My grandfather went into a nursing home in Canada and the gov't took 80% of his pension income and then subsidized the rest. That includes savings as well.

</comment><comment><USER3> This will be unpopular...

He was rejected from _our_ universal healthcare system because of the astronomical costs of keeping a 96 year old man (with a life ending disease) alive.

Those costs exist under every system regardless of whether or not the _customer_ sees those costs.

This is not a defense of our "private" healthcare system. This is a defense of our _public_ healthcare system. They made the rational decision to focus their resources on younger people with better chances of recovery. Dr. Lederman made the rational choice to sell his Nobel prize to extend his life. At least that option was available to him! The same can't be said for people like Charlie Gard.

<comment><USER4> This is a good point - and something ignored by some advocates of universal healthcare (I'm partial to the idea of universal healthcare, but would like to see more honest debate of the issue).

<comment><USER5> Me too. I spend more time in hospitals than the average person my age due to a hereditary condition.

I try very hard to stay well and do precisely what I'm told by medical professionals.

Many people that I've met in the hospital do not. They're often older and should know better, but they'll hear "No foods or liquids", and sneak in beef jerky before surgery anyway.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Universal healthcare will need to cover all of these people who don't listen to medical advice, and will return because of it.

From a private insurance or single payer insurance perspective there may not be a difference between the two.

All I know is that I must have good medical insurance at all times, otherwise I will be screwed in so many ways.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If well known, well off, high profile people like Lederman get wiped out by ill health and no one cares just think how much worse it must be for the more average person. I really enjoyed his "God Particle" book. RIP.

<comment><USER7> He sold a lot of those books. What happened to the money? It's not like he didn't do well as a scientist and director of a major Department of Energy lab, and $1 million that comes with the Nobel.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> You would think that University of Chicago could sacrifice 0.1% of their endowment to help out someone who had brought them so much prestige.

<comment><USER9> They probably weren't even aware of his situation when this happened.

<comment><USER8> Yeah, you're probably right...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> To face a horrible illness and have that be compounded by having to give up a symbol of your life's biggest achievement must have been awful. The UK isn't perfect, but I'm very glad to live in a country where this sort of thing doesn't happen.

<comment><USER6> How do you come to that conclusion? The UK government won't fund a nursing home unless you have exhausted most of your assets. See, for instance, [https://www.carehome.co.uk/fees/feesadvice.cfm](https://www.carehome.co.uk/fees/feesadvice.cfm). I dare say it might still be better than the US but I don't know for certain.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Anyone else surprised he could get so much for it?

<comment><AUTHOR> A Russian billionaire paid USD$4.1 million for James Watson's Nobel Prize. In an act of stunning decency he apparently returned the medal to James Watson.

[https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/09/russian- bill...](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/09/russian-billionaire- usmanov-james-watson-nobel-prize-return-scientist)

<comment><USER11> Wow that's amazing

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> > The United States routinely has health care prices well-above the rest of > the country.

Above the rest of itself?

<comment><USER13> Yes, you need to shop for medical care, the costs can be drastically different from one hospital to the next... I think there's a website designed to help you do that but I can't find it right now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Very sad news. Dr. Lederman was an excellent teacher in addition to being a researcher. He encouraged lecture participation and making educated guesses (I had a freshman year class with him and I didn't even know he won a Nobel until the end of the semester).

</comment><comment><USER15> sensational headline ...

tenured professors are the top 1% of academia and they have a pension no?

maybe he sold it to live out his final days with premium care.

maybe they decided his surviving wife would've rather had a liquid estate instead of a shiny medal in a closet.

<comment><USER16> Mostly no, they do not. PIs are typically paid little, given their worth on the market for their skills. Even though he was 'famous', he got his Nobel at ~70 years old, meaning that he spent most of his earning years 'unrecognized'. I know you can look up any University of California professor's earnings here: [https://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/state- pay/art...](https://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/state- pay/article2642161.html)

For instance Professor Vickram Chandra of UC Berkeley [0] made ~$91k in 2016 [1]. Other professors make more, like Professor Alexandrova of UCLA who make ~$146k in 2016 [2]. You can poke around the UCs and compare. Do remember that most PIs labor in grad school for ~7 years, earning barely anything.

I do not know of other databases for other universities that do this, but many US states have sunshine laws that make professor's salaries public information. I know that Colorado also mandates that all public employee's emails are public information too and I think other states do this as well, though I do not have a list of them.

[0][https://english.berkeley.edu/profiles/22](https://english.berkeley.edu/profiles/22)

[1][https://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/state- pay/art...](https://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/state- pay/article2642161.html?appSession=887L947CK3UM98E4DB378779Z503C4T6TB5OJD2OJ495LF1Z091E7RD5BR409ZKV79G3UD4N4ITQ59HA712A8GKV9TKJ5RVF757MHBY9O6J6JO1335OAS2G5NHH1822F&RecordID=493784&PageID=8&PrevPageID=2&cpipage=1&CPIsortType=&CPIorderBy=&cbCurrentRecordPosition=8&Mod0LinkToDetails=True)

[2][https://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/state- pay/art...](https://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/state- pay/article2642161.html?appSession=6B3RKRX1H8VB3IZ31YUKSNP966M6LA9697C9GSP7250BB7CEW9D7607C763RRFMZWEG7R4T2OI1W88L50X9M48768FH16L85SVZ2SX2N5S2H93C726P0P38HI3TV5901&RecordID=329255&PageID=8&PrevPageID=2&cpipage=1&CPIsortType=&CPIorderBy=&cbCurrentRecordPosition=1&Mod0LinkToDetails=True)

<comment><USER15> the question the article raises is not whether theyre paid their worth but rather whether theyre dying paupers

I looked up my friends PI at Berkeley. (no Nobel) $300k

pension 50-75% of salary + retiree healthcare benefits

hard to say someone in that position is going to end up destitute unless they make terrible life choices.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This is extremely surprising to me. Healthcare plans from universities tend to be extremely good. How did this happen?

</comment><comment><USER18> only in america, indeed! in many countries, he'd just die at home.

</comment><comment><USER19> Hundreds of years from now, when this time period is documented in history books, my great great grandchildren will look back on our greed-driven for- profit healthcare system as a shameful black mark in American history, just like we look back at the history of slavery today. They'll ask "How could a democracy have allowed random, treatable health conditions to ruin people financially?" They'll be horrified by how greedy and barbaric we are as a people, same as how we look back at the Civil War era society that promoted slavery.

<comment><USER20> I think comparing this to slavery, the Indian wars, Jim Crow, etc. more than a little hyperbolic.

There's a big difference between using violence to control other people, take their land or systemic disenfranchisement and the best healthcare being affordable to a big chunk of the population.

Things that are Really Bad(TM) involve people actively doing things that we consider highly immoral today. Healthcare is just a case of failing to find a workable solution. The situations are very different.

<comment><USER21> It's deeply immoral to use violence to control people. It's deeply immoral to hoard money and resources (to "be rich" in today's language) and ensure the system of resource hoarding continues over generations through lobbying and corruption. That's the extent of the comparison -- the magnitude of the immorality -- and I think it's fair?

<comment><USER22> >"It's deeply immoral to hoard money and resources"

This sounds like "it's deeply immoral to plan ahead" to me.

<comment><USER21> To me, there's planning ahead, with a large emergency fund and survival supplies for one's family, and then there's hoarding money and resources.

"When you start talking about whether it is moral to be rich, you end up heading down some difficult logical paths. If I am obligated to use my wealth to help people, am I not obligated to keep doing so until I am myself a pauper? Surely this obligation attaches to _anyone_ who consumes luxuries they do not need, or who has some savings that they are not spending on malaria treatment for children. But the central point I want to make here is that the moral duty becomes greater the more wealth you have. If you end up with a $50,000 a year or $100,000 a year salary, we can debate what amount you should spend on helping other people. But if you earn $250,000 or 1 million, it's quite clear that the bulk of your income should be given away. You can live very comfortably on $100,000 or so _and_ have luxury and indulgence, so anything beyond is almost _indisputably_ indefensible." ~ Nathan Robinson, _It 's Basically Just Immoral To Be Rich_

<comment><USER22> Or you can save all that money to work on your own projects like curing cancer. Eg, tens or hundreds of billions of dollars are being wasted every year on crappy (not even reproducible in principle) medical research:

[https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2016/01/14/paul-glasziou-and- iain-...](https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2016/01/14/paul-glasziou-and-iain- chalmers-is-85-of-health-research-really-wasted/)

How do you expect anyone to compete with the government and fund useful medical research if they aren't allowed to accumulate enough wealth to compete with the tidal wave of crap that governments are producing? You need to "hoard" at least a couple hundred million dollars to even hope to compete with that.

<comment><USER21> Maybe we can agree if people in positions like Larry Ellison's or Elon Musk's were hoarding money with the intention of funding medical research, setting up entities that make it difficult-to-impossible to blow it all on buying a Hawaiian island or lifting a car into space for entertainment, then we wouldn't be having this exchange.

If you look at the latest news stories about Memorial Sloan Kettering (ProPublica is a place to start) and conclude that the government should minimize involvement in medical research for the betterment humankind Because Competition... you will certainly find plenty of friends, I suppose

<comment><USER22> I'm not saying competition is good for medical research, but having done medical research I am well aware of the unbelievable rate at which crappy papers are being published. And then when you try to publish a paper you're expected to somehow address all these previous crappy papers... We simply need some alternative to the current system and they are all being drowned out because they simply cant compete funding-wise.

Also, think about Elon Musk with 22 billion ([https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/elon-r- musk/](https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/elon-r-musk/)). His entire wealth is what governments currently waste on crappy medical research every couple months.

Lets say NIH is producing 99.99% crap (about 1 in 10k papers is useful) at ~$30 billion per year. Elon musk could set up MIH (Musk Institutes of Health) that is 100x more efficient (producing 1/100th the papers, but that are "only" 99% crap) for ~$300 million/year. After 73 years, about one human lifetime, the fund would be bankrupt. That's why I say you need to accumulate at least a couple hundred million dollars to hope to have an effect.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> The fact that losing the birth-lottery and getting sick can make someone financially-poor through absolutely no fault of their own is astonishing.

That so many people I personally know in America are absolutely fine with this is something that blows my mind. I think it's insane, but I'm a "socialist" Canadian who shouldn't be pushing my crazy ideas on the southerners.

<comment><USER24> This story isn't really about "losing the birth lottery", so to speak. Its about someone not being able to afford nursing home care.

The fact is that the US spends much of its money on caring for the elderly already, and there is, as the article notes, medicaid for those who cant afford to pay for nursing home care. As a result, im a bit confused as to why he had to sell his medal.

<comment><USER25> It might be along the lines that you have to have a minimum of assets to and money to qualify for some of those things. You know to prevent middle class and wealthy people from abusing the system designed for people who can't afford care.

Having something that you could sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars therefore may be a disqualifer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> >The cost of receiving care in a nursing home can also present a significant burden. A private room in a nursing facility costs, on average, $7,698 per month. And Medicare, which covers the vast majority of Americans over 65, generally does not cover long-term nursing care.

>Many Americans do end up getting Medicaid to cover nursing home bills — but that often requires selling off significant assets and dwindling down savings in order to fall below the public program's income requirements.

The costs are so high is because much of that money goes to subsidizing Medicare and Medicaid, hence the socialist aspect of having to downsize your assets to qualify.

<comment><USER27> Hospital costs are high... because of medicaid? You sure you don't want to trot out the old chestnut that they are also high because we're subsidizing the rest of the world's low medical costs? Pull the other one.

Also the last sentence you wrote doesn't make sense. Please justify your use of "socialist aspect of downsizing assets to qualify".

<comment><USER25> I think he's trying to dog socialism by attaching it to the wealth requirements for qualifying for medicare/medicaid. IE you can't have hundreds of thousands of dollars in asestes and property and qualify. I don't perceive this as a problem with socialism, so much as preventing people that could pay for care trying to leech off government programs because they don't wanna and are butt hurt because poor people don't just die in a gutter.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> We should consider the possibility that Dr. Lederman's financial problems happened _by design_.

After all, why should ordinary people be allowed to slowly amass modest fortunes to pass onto their heirs?

If you want to know who is truly elite in America, see whose debts cannot be discharged through bankruptcy.

<comment><USER29> The way Medicaid works is they'll pay for a nursing home once you run out of money. They also can claw back some related person gifts (or other transactions) that happened within the past few years.

If you have a lot of assets you want to pass to your heirs, but not enough assets you don't mind selling to pay for your end of life care, it's best to give to your heirs over the course of your life.

The downside is a substantial gift while the giver is alive has a paperwork burden, as well as a loss in the step-up in cost basis you get when giving after death. The upside is you get to see how your heirs use the gift and you can express your feelings directly, rather than through rolling in your grave.

<comment><USER26> Very interesting way of looking at it, almost a philosophical approach.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> People that do not benefit society at all, like celebrities that are known from that they are known, can buy a diamond ring for 1.5+ mil dollars. And the people awarded with highest, most prestigious award that human can receive for pushing humankind further and further can't afford to pay for medical bills. There is something really wrong with the world in which we live.

<comment><USER31> Perhaps I am missing something, but the Vox story says that he _could_ afford to pay his medical bills. He sold some assets, and paid his bills. There are much better arguments for universal health care than someone with almost $800K in unneeded assets. Taxes should first subsidize health care for those who can't afford it on their own.</comment></comment>


The most popular subdomains on the Internet (2016) - <AUTHOR> https://bitquark.co.uk/blog/2016/02/29/the_most_popular_subdomains_on_the_internet <comment><USER2> www counts as a subdomain?

<comment><USER3> Yup. Technically, a subdomain is just a part of a domain.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subdomain](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subdomain)</comment></comment>


Startup School 13: How to Find Product Market Fit – Peter Reinhardt [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.startupschool.org/videos/13 <comment><USER2> Very important talk. Not sure when the phrase was popularized, but my introduction to it was in Marc Andreessen's blog post [1]. This entire series of posts in his blog are worth reading, by the way. Marc calls this "The only thing that matters", and it is definitely true.

I like this video because of the emphasis on the role our psychology plays in the search for product-market fit. Understanding people/users well - what they _mean_ when they say "this is interesting" is really important. Systematic de- biasing of our own mind is an important idea in this talk.

Richard Feynman's famous conclusion to his report on the shuttle Challenger accident said "Nature cannot be fooled"-similarly, markets/users cannot be fooled. Either a product or service solves their problem or it doesn't. Anything in between needs to questioned carefully and observed (in an unbiased way) closely. Feynman also says "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool". Same idea as Peter's -- and a very important one!

I wish more founders talked about "what product-market fit feels like" (once they found it) - because only with enough samples, new startup founders can better understand whether they have achieved pm-fit. However, I wish video shouldn't be mistaken for thinking: "my Show HN post tanked, so I don't have pm-fit". I think it is worthwhile trying to understand what he means. It is quite clear when you _really_ solve a problem that someone else has. It is also a great feeling.

One of the reasons why finding pm-fit is hard is because there are too many variables. Peter simplifies it to some extent when he says that while searching, one must be clear if you are changing the market or the product. This is correct, but in reality, these adjustments are quite subtle. So paying close attention to these constant/rapid adjustments (stepping back and thinking about them) is quite important.

I like the conclusion of his talk: you will know when you find it.

[1] [http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_startups_part4.html](http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_startups_part4.html)

<comment><USER3> People often describe finding pmf as an explosive, overwhelming moment, when customers are pulling the product out of your hands.

I wonder if there are any hugely successful companies that experienced in more subtle, gradual way. Instead of that one moment when they were overwhelmed by inquiries from prospective customers, they ground away slowly and steadily with hard-working sales and marketing teams. Instead of one big hockey stick moment, they just grew sales by 70% every year, year after year.

<comment><USER4> In my experience building the product for my company, FareHarbor, what you describe -- steady growth driven by ever-improving software and hard-working sales -- is more familiar. (This is in the SaaS / SMB world).

We launched with just enough features to serve a single client. For a while, each new client needed something more. After something like a year we were able to onboard _some_ new clients without changing anything about the software -- that's when I felt confident we were onto something. Nevertheless we didn't suddenly experience a deluge of customers, phones ringing off the hook. Perhaps sales got easier, onboarding got easier, people had heard of us already. But even as we were growing by several times each year, we were still "slogging it out", doing the work.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I found segment.io in the early days of a new job and quickly set it up. I started playing with it and siphoning off some live data using a pretty rough shell script calling curl. Peter and another colleague saw what I was doing and came to my company to meet in person. I recall booking the largest, most impressive conference room we had and a 10AM meeting.

Peter and his colleague showed up and walked me through using Segment. The told me that I was the only one using their API via curl and that they were impressed with what I had been able to cobble together so quickly.

Peter took out a tiny Moleskine-type notebook and drew a diagram of what was next on the roadmap for Segment. I recall how neat and detailed the diagram was and how thoughtful Peter was about what he was doing next.

Peter and his colleague also revealed to me a sort of sister company they were familiar with that was creating an API around professional identity as a service. This sounded a lot like [https://www.fullcontact.com/](https://www.fullcontact.com/) but was something else.

I've since moved on from focusing on that type of data. HN seems to feature a fair amount of content about Segment. I enjoy keeping up with their progress and wish them all well.

</comment><comment><USER6> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4912076](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4912076) is the show hn for anyone interested. It's funny reading that post I would not have realized that product market fit has been found.

In fact, there's been so many show hn's that have been way way way way more successful and I have seen nothing from them.

</comment><comment><USER7> Besides it being a great and no-BS talk which I very much recommend, I think the title is a bit misleading.

The talk does a good job explaining how to _identify_ PMF (i.e. how to tell fake PMF apart from real PMF), but unfortunately doesn't do much explaining on how to _find_ it.

<comment><USER8> Probably there isn't a real method of how, except for repeatedly trying things out until you hit something, a thing which is actually described in the talk. He says that reaching PMF once only lightly helps you reaching it again, and he thinks that the real help you gain from it is how to identify it once you have it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> He keeps warning not to write thousands of lines before talking to customers (as you often hear from biased survivors). But it sounds like they didn't find PM fit by talking to customers. Rather they identified -- perhaps out of desperation and exhaustion -- 0.1% of the code they had written that they thought might be useful and threw it out there. The takeaway really seems to be write as much code as you can, if one-tenth of one percent is going to be the golden nugget. Also, I suspect that they were able to use that other code and the processes around it to capitalize on their good fortune.

</comment><comment><USER10> This is a great and really honest talk. I really enjoyed it. In particular the description of how one risks spending too much time building something that no one really wants but everyone is kind enough to tell you is a good idea.

</comment><comment><USER11> This is one of the best talks of the startup school for early stage companies, Peter could not be more direct and clear to define what exactly is a product market fit. I hope this is something which is consistent with all successful companies.

</comment><comment><USER12> It's a great reminder of what PMF actually looks like and just as important: what it doesn't look like.

</comment><comment><USER13> Most important takeaway for me was "fail faster". He talks about the first two attempts going on for a year and a half and burning through 5/6th of their money before they hit product market fit.

</comment><comment><USER14> my favourite talk until now, a lot of practical advise, and it's fascinating to see the pivots.

</comment><comment><USER15> How does pmfit work with the 7% wow growth guidance?

<comment><USER16> I'd recommend [http://blog.samaltman.com/before- growth](http://blog.samaltman.com/before-growth)

"I think the right initial metric is "do any users love our product so much they spontaneously tell other people to use it?" Until that's a "yes", founders are generally better off focusing on this instead of a growth target."</comment></comment>


Differences on Cybertheft Complicate China Talks - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/world/asia/differences-on-cybertheft-complicate-china-talks.html

<comment><AUTHOR> This is where the USA gets its comeuppance, and rightly so. The utter hypocrisy of Obama claiming that any hacking of US infrastructure is "an act of war" while simultaneously doing that very thing to trading partners such as Germany and China illustrates the absurdity of the situation.</comment>


People Are Having Sex with 3D Avatars of Their Exes and Celebrities - <AUTHOR> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5yzpk/they-cant-stop-us-people-are-having-sex-with-3d-avatars-of-their-exes-and-celebrities <comment><USER2> Mandatory - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrrADTN- dvg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrrADTN-dvg)</comment>


How to Save Ourselves From the Irrational Economy - <AUTHOR> http://discussionleader.hbsp.com/goldsmith/2008/11/dan_ariely_how_to_save_ourselv.html <comment><USER2> Behavioral economics play a much larger role in macro economics than most people believe, explaining such things as sudden drops and surges in share prices that classical economics have serious problems with. Unfortunately, as the article argues, much economic commentary by massmedia is stuck in the era of classical economics.

If you want to learn more, and gain some insight into how these mechanisms work I recommend watching Daniel Kahneman's 45 minute Nobel prize lecture from 2002: [http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economics/laureates/2002/...](http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economics/laureates/2002/kahneman- lecture.html)

<comment><USER3> I think there's a more fundamental problem with any commentary (economic or otherwise) by mass media. It hardly seems objective these days.

There's also a self-fulfilling prophecy problem with media coverage of economic information. If you tell everyone things are getting bad, it would seem rational that they would sell their assets (making things worse). If you say there's no bottom in sight, not many people would feel like re-entering the market.

<comment><USER4> Yes. This is a double-edged sword, though. The similar bubble happens if you constantly read that some assets are going to rise infinitely (eg, real estate).

See Soros' reflexivity.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The title was misleading. It's quite unfortunate that irrational choices can seem appealing when the market is manipulated, and it is even more tragic when it is done in the name of the American Dream and ends up wrecking families' finances permanently.

<comment><USER3> Yeah, I've been getting a hunch that there's some significant market manipulation going on over the past year. Particularly the strength in the dollar and the weakness of gold.</comment></comment>


Get a Midlife  - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/sunday-review/get-a-midlife.html?_r=2&hp&pagewanted=all <comment><USER2> And this other study comes to the opposite conclusion: "People are least happy in their 40s and early 50s. They reach a nadir at a global average of 46".

<http://www.economist.com/node/17722567>

<comment><USER3> Obviously, I have no first-hand experience to speak from, but I can't help but think that there's likely to be some systematic bias involved in asking exclusively people over 65. I'm not claiming I know specifically what it is, but it seems overwhelmingly likely. It may have something to do with their 40s being the most recent previous "era" of their life; they're so far removed from the person they were when they were 20 and 30 that it's just not fathomable to go back to that.

I don't necessarily know what it would be, but I'd take the results of the poll with a grain of salt, especially considering this contradictory link.

<comment><USER4> > _they're so far removed from the person they were when they were 20 and 30 > that it's just not fathomable to go back to that._

I asked my wife's grandfather on his 88th birthday: Forget the mirror, how old do you feel on the inside? His answer: 33.

As a 48 yo, I gotta tell you I wouldn't believe I'm mentally past 22 without the mirror. But maybe that just means I'm incredibly immature. :)

<comment><USER5> I am 38 and still mostly feel like a teenager. There is an interesting look at the issue [http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/03/what...](http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/03/whats_your_perm.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> As someone nearing that middle, I think a lot of it is which direction you look. Was high school your peak, is this moment the peak, or will next year be the peak? And what do you mean by peak? Physical, mental, spiritual, social?

</comment><comment><USER7> Lots of proof-by-example and "look at this product sold to improve your life!" towards the bottom of the article -- ugh.

</comment><comment><USER8> The points he brings up applies well to 'older' startup founders. It's hard to quantify but that extra life experience does make one better at negotiating, give more confidence in ones abilities, make you better at BS-detection and so on and so forth.

Additionally, you've probably passed through the various stages of being motivated by wanting to impress women, by wanting to gather materialistic wealth (and fast), by wanting to impress your peer-group, older founder is now doing it for more intrinsic reasons which makes for sustainable long-term motivation and commitment.

I say this as a 30 y.o guy who's currently learning how to code (previously a product manager at BigCorp) so I can build my own project this year. Sometimes I think to myself I wish I did this earlier but then I realise that the sum of my life experience has put me where I am now.

</comment><comment><USER9> I know I'm just one data point, but I'm happier now at age 49 than ever before.

</comment><comment><USER10> Step 1: Get a life.</comment>


Ask HN: Resources for Systems Programming in Lisp - <AUTHOR> When I read about history of computers, I see a lot of Lisp based systems and programming environments that were essentially complete operating systems and development environments built on lisp.
Unrelated to lisp but equally intriguing is smalltalk-80 systems were essentially similar complete operating systems written in smalltalk.
Are there any modern resources where systems programming is explored in such high level programming environments?
Are there any modern computer designs based on the constructs of these languages (example a computer architecture based on maybe cons cells, and can be directly programmed in Lisp, or the elements of computation abstracted as objects, which communicate through message passing)
I wish to explore that side of computing and it seems to be very hard to find reading and physical resources to get set up.
I have read the elements of computing, PAIP part 1 and currently reading the Anatomy of Lisp. I also plan to read Lisp in Small Pieces. Having said that, these books do not seem to exactly have what I am looking for, as excellent reads as they are!
Some links are welcome! <comment><USER2> [https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano](https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano)

Mezzano is an operating system written in Common Lisp.

</comment><comment><USER3> Erlang is a good tool for exploring message passing. Or rather OTP (Open Telecom Platform) at a different abstraction layer. Or the Beam virtual machine at yet another abstraction layer. For a modern (virtual) Lisp machine, you can probably do worse than working in Emacs.

To me, there's rarely a reason to bake a specific abstraction into hardware. The whole idea of computers is the ability to compute anything that is computable.</comment>


WebKit Remote Debugging - <AUTHOR> http://www.webkit.org/blog/1620/webkit-remote-debugging/ <comment><USER2> An interesting side benefit this opens up the possibility of debugging languages that compile down to JavaScript, such as Coffeescript or Objective-J.

Just attach an editor or a terminal via a websocket, provide a mapping layer between the high-level (Coffee) and low-level (JS) source (line numbers, variables and such), and you're in business.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'd be willing to pay good money if someone managed to hook this up with Vim. Making changes on Webkit and copy/pasting back is a pain.

I understand it's not trivial, as a lot of html/css and even javascript may be conditionally echoed to the browser by some php, python, etc, so a quick dirty search/replace plugin hack won't do.

But still, if someone took it for himself the job of doing so, we'd finally have a decent web developing workflow for a change.

<comment><USER4> +1 but with Emacs.

Given there are well established debugging tools in Emacs (and Vim too?) I cannot imagine this being terribly difficult, assuming the protocol is reasonable and consistent.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Awesome! Weinre <http://pmuellr.github.com/weinre/> provides similar but more limited functionality and has saved me in so many mobile-specific WTFs I've lost track.

<comment><USER6> Weinre also works where this currently does not (on mobile devices where you generally can't just run a custom version of the browser for testing purposes).

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Has anyone built a WebKit for iOS? I routinely use the Mac Webkit for desktop debugging but a quick google search reveals no such beast for iOS.

Does anyone have any idea if it is or can be done? Remote debugging on iOS would be _outstanding_.

</comment><comment><USER8> This is enabled in the blackberry playbook by default, which is a really really compelling reason for me to get one.

I have wondered 1. why it isnt enabled in android webkit by default, 2. how hard it would be to enable given the source, 3. if any android devices are coming out with it enabled.

but I havent had enough time to do anything more than wonder, weinre is doing an awesome job in the meantime

</comment><comment><USER9> Nice to see a member of the Chromium team posting on the WebKit blog. Time to change the name from "Surfin' Safari" to "Webloggin' WebKit"? :)

</comment><comment><USER10> this in mobilesafari would be a godsend

<comment><USER11> I got excited when I read their intro that talked about how mobile platforms lacked the real estate for proper debugging, until I realized there's no way this is going to help in current iOS mobile app development.

I'd be surprised to see Apple adopt this. It would be interesting to see this supported in the iPhone simulator at the very least.

<comment><USER12> It's not quite the same, but <http://jsconsole.com/> is useful for providing a console for mobile devices.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> So they can have a minimal HTTP server builtin with Webkit, can I access that some Javascript API?

</comment><comment><USER14> Will be interesting to see what security ramifications this has.</comment>


Introducing transparent pricing - <AUTHOR> https://open.bufferapp.com/transparent-pricing-buffer/

<comment><USER2> I admire the idea of transparency on principle but wonder how practical it is long term or under likely scenarios in the future of a company.

And I wonder how that profit compares to similar businesses? And if it is sustainable? (Just to start...)

A quick search provides some rough "data" on other small businesses: "The average net profits of a small manufacturing wood products business, with $2 million in revenue annually, according to the website "Biz Stats," is 14.56 percent per year. Medical equipment and suppliers, with $2 million in revenue, have a net profit margin of 26.95 percent annually. By contrast, computer and electronics products return a net profit of 53.94 percent, and the food processing sector, according to "Biz Stats," has a net profit margin of 10.28 percent." ([http://smallbusiness.chron.com/average-profit-margin- small-b...](http://smallbusiness.chron.com/average-profit-margin-small- business-23368.html))

</comment><comment><USER3> There are lots of ways to run a business and this is one.

It reads like what you'd expect to read from a charity.

<comment><USER4> They are probably more transparent that a lot of charities, the approach is great and the whole culture seems very neat.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm surprised by how low their profit margin is - at least on these $10 plans.</comment>


Why primary care will soon only treat chronic conditions - <AUTHOR> https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2019/11/why-primary-care-will-soon-only-treat-chronic-conditions.html <comment><USER2> I want everyone on the team. I want the best my budget can handle. I have requirements for technical positions that are posted with factors on how the candidates will he judged. Attributes of all the candidates will not be looked at by the technical review team. They will score and the winner gets an offer. There is one more thing. If I pull data on my NAICS code and see that women or minorities etc are not apart of the workforce, you bet your ass I'm going to put them first. Disabled veterans are prioritized. I do not believe the actual data pull for the rate of return specified. Statistics is something I want all the details, or it is just fluff.</comment>


Climate Change Confuses Most Americans - <AUTHOR> http://www.solarfeeds.com/justmeans/14728-climate-change-confuses-most-americans

<comment><USER2> _The two percent of researchers who aren't in agreement deserve to heard. But they do not deserve equal time in the media. Imagine if you owned 98% of a business but your less-knowledgeable partner with only two percent had as much sway as you. It's a ridiculous way to approach business and a ridiculous way to present such an important issue._

This gets on my nerves -- science is not the same as running a business. I'm pretty sure that a large part of the said 98% are dogmatically accepting the view of the majority and are too afraid to test any hypotheses...

<comment><USER3> I'll admit there is something troubling about surveying only Climatologists in that they've built an entire industry around Global Warming. If someone could prove man-made GW didn't exist you'd probably see 2/3 of the available Climatology grants disappear overnight.

That said I think there's a bigger flaw in this survey and that's the question itself. The question, as stated in the graph, is "Credibility of Evidence for Anthropogenic Climate Change". Not "Scientists who believe Climate Change will cause a cataclysmic change in our environment"

I think everyone agrees that our presence on Earth is having some impact on the environment. It seems insane not to believe that. The question is to what extent and that isn't addressed in the survey.

<comment><USER4> I agree. It is like doing a survey on the importance of AI research and only surveying AI researchers. A much less biased survey would also include CS and statistics researchers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Scientific truth isn't determined by what percentage of scientists believe in it -- it's determined by who can show convincing experimental proof to back up their hypothesis. At the time that Einstein published his theory of relativity, the overwhelming consensus among physicists was that he was crazy.

Also, no real scientist would find a result convincing if there wasn't enough information published to allow them to independently verify the experiment. Using this criterion, 99% of "climate science" is not science.

</comment><comment><USER6> My oh my, without weighing in on the state of climate science or the use of Word Art for blog images, this line is a real screamer:

"Poll after poll has shown that almost 100% of climate scientists accept the evidence of climate change and believe we're the main cause"

Let me see : 100% of the people employed in a field agree that the field is important? Obviously there is so much bias in that I'm surprised anyone would make such a statement.

Let me restate : 100% of butchers agree that being a vegetarian is not good for you.

It's interesting, though, the HN crowd rarely gets into arguments over CC/AGW anymore. I guess it's already been said and there's nothing new.

</comment><comment><USER7> This is disgusting propaganda written either by morons or by corrupt individuals who deserve no space on HN. Go Google for Hal Lewis' resignation letter from the APS if you want a glipse of the truth on these matters.

<comment><USER5> I'll second that: definitely go find Lewis' letter and read it.

And if you want a glimpse of some thoughtful scientific discussion of the other (skeptic) side of global warming, go find the blog "Climate Audit" (and no, they're not funded by big oil or the Republicans, and I have no connection with them other than being a reader).</comment></comment>


Two Ex-Googlers Want to Make Bodegas and Mom-And-Pop Corner Stores Obsolete - <AUTHOR> https://www.fastcompany.com/40466047/two-ex-googlers-want-to-make-bodegas-and-mom-and-pop-corner-stores-obsolete <comment><USER3> It's honestly impressive how tech people continue to exhibit a complete lack of social awareness. This is a product no one asked for (NYers actually enjoy bodegas as they are), and the PR seems to be blatantly pro-gentrification (i.e. getting rid of one of the few viable business opportunities for lower- class immigrants is spun as a good thing).

<comment><USER4> If that's true, they'll fail. What I worry about in regards to businesses like this is cream-skimming.

For example: these bodega guys sell the most popular items at higher margin; those items drove additional foot traffic into the bodega who then bought the next tier of items. Or someone needed the next tier and picked up the more impulse items while there. Once the cream has been skimmed, the economic model of the bodega is no longer available, so the shops vanish, which inconveniences everyone.

This is the Uber model too: pick off the wealthier passengers, leave the dregs to taxis who are required by law to pick everyone up.

This model has destroyed dry cleaners in SF; as a bonus the dry cleaning startup failed as well, but by that time the damage was done.

It's capitalism, sure, and in case you're wondering I'm not advocating for regulation to prevent innovation. But personally I try to avoid these cream- skimming businesses even though I am in the "cream" demographic.

<comment><USER5> > It's capitalism, sure, and in case you're wondering I'm not advocating for > regulation to prevent innovation.

Capitalism doesn't require regulation to prevent innovation. It requires regulation to prevent _exactly this_ from happening: Large anomalous but short-lived ventures killing small-scale existing markets.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is such a stupid idea. These "pantry boxes" aren't going to replace bodegas. Who's going to restock them? And how soon? They literally just do not have the physical capacity to scale. Also: no beer, no tobacco products, no coffee, no ice cream, no hot food - basically the things that people go to bodegas for (but they have Lacroix!)... Not to mention some of the clerks are pretty friendly, at least in my area.

<comment><USER7> These people should study Japanese convenience stores. I doubt anyone can improve much on the fundamentals of that business model. I visit the local conbini every night, and it serves as my bank, post office, and of course source of snacks.

I saw a tv show about how the managers of each conbini uses a sophisticated app that aggregates inputs like weather and sales trends to anticipate demand for each product and help order and deal with logistics. Every cash register has a set of age bracket buttons, so that can track age demographic even for cash sales.

The original breakthrough of 7-11 when it first franchised in Japan was to use the stores as a distributed warehouse where almost all inventory is for sale almost all the time. Since then, they've been chipping away at refinements and there's plenty of competition, not to mention jobs for immigrants, etc.

I read somewhere that the average person in Japan spends around US$6.00 per day at a conbini. Even with all the costs, that's a pretty healthy revenue stream.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> It seems like it would be far less controversial if they took the cute machine learning tech and ran a b2b company that helped existing mom-and-pop stores service their communities.

<comment><USER9> Yes but how would we get to witness an epic flop when two overpaid children of privilege who only heard about bodega cats from @bodegacatsofinstagram get smacked in a face by realities of bodegas?

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> This is essentially a vending machine, but more importantly, and the reason it cannot replicate the NYC bodega experience... no cat.

<comment><USER11> No cat, no bags of ice, no limes, no beer and no deli sandwiches - <USER2> this vending machine "Bodega" when it doesn't have the staples of a bodega is offensive to my new york sensibilities.

<comment><USER12> And the owners don't robbed at gunpoint every few months.

Sorry, a high school friend's family owned a bodega in Bushwick before it was "gentrified." That's the main thing I remember about their business.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it...or pivot.

[http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2003/11/13/bus_391181.s...](http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2003/11/13/bus_391181.shtml#.WbnDjsiGPDd)

</comment><comment><USER14> Kind of reminds me of this Vox video about vending machines in Japan: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJzVLXmBG4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJzVLXmBG4)

</comment><comment><USER15> So, basically a hotel mini-bar?

<comment><USER13> Worse, a hotel mini-bar placed in the middle of the street.

Mini-bars are at least attached to your name and credit card for the duration of your stay.</comment></comment>


Accidentally Quadratic Node.js left-pad - <AUTHOR> http://accidentallyquadratic.tumblr.com/post/142387131042/nodejs-left-pad <comment><USER2> A second, steeper, linear trend indicates to me that there is another O(n) operation that is presumably amortised (or cached) for smaller values of n. I'm not familiar with the string implementations in either V8 or Chrome, nor their memory allocator implementations, but id assume that's where someone should look to find that second linear trend.

A quick tip to the author for when you plot regression lines: always include the R^2 value. I'm not entirely convinced the entire trend in the second graph is "linear".</comment>


Ask HN: I don't know how to raise money. How should I? - <AUTHOR>

Throwaway.
I don't know how to raise money.
What's a first time entrepreneur with a solid technical & business background, tons of experience, a working product in the hands of soon-to-be-paying B2B customers supposed to do to get started raising money?
I have a MVP plus product, a handful of beta B2B customers--some decent brand names--and some that will probably convert to paying customers in the next few month--talking about a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars a month per customer.
I've read Paul Graham's "How to Raise Money" [0]. I read the same from others' blogs: Don't raise unless you know you need the money. I know I need it to scale and grow quickly. Still, I don't know how to go about raising it!
I've spent years as a developer and product manager. I have a solid MBA. Something a little different? I'm in my late 30's, have a spouse and kids and am leaving a cushy corporate job.
How do I go about raising money? Cold-call angles/VC's and ask to meet over a coffee? Go to start-up competitions? Apply to an incubator? I thought about applying to YC but think I don't fit the demographic (age and family) and I don't have a co-founder.
How do I start? Are there specific advisers out there that help with this? Some book or blog post I haven't come across yet?
When should I start raising money? I've heard I should give myself a 6-month run-way, but I can't put my business on hold while I do that. BTW, having a co-founder is starting to make sense for this one reason now.
How much should I raise? I've heard an estimate of (monthly need x 18 months) and I've also read that I should just guess [1].
How do I start? And then what do I do next?
0 - bit.ly/1iSAUvB
1 - http://read.bi/1dqtJcD
EDIT: Fixed formatting <comment><USER2> Where are you based? This will have a large impact on your next steps. Don't cold call VCs, that isn't the way to go. Go through your network. Maybe even leveraging the network of your clients, if you have a good enough relationship with them.

Do a bit of research into the VCs/Angels in your area. Find out who they are, what sorts of businesses they like. Get on angellist. Build a network there. Talk to people. Keep working. If you've got B2B customers and money coming in, focus on that. For most companies, that is more important than raising a first round of funding, assuming you can continue to bootstrap. The more money you have coming in and the longer you go without, the better leverage you'll have with investors, and possibly an easier conversation.

You say you need the money to scale and grow quickly, but are you sure you need to scale and grow quickly? There are definitely some businesses that do need this, but not all. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement and think 'I need money to scale', but what specifically do you need the money to do? Hardware is so cheap at the moment, and you're a developer, so those costs are minor. If you think you need money to scale with marketing, you don't at this stage. Wait a month, or two.

I've started the fundraising dance, and worked for a VC on a few of their start-ups, and I can tell you that it is very time consuming.

As far as getting a co-founder, everybody says to do it, but that isn't so easy either. Start looking.

Basically, my advice would be to network as much as possible, and get as much advice and help as you can. See what you can do with favours and such, without going for funding right away.

See if you can build your business to 10,000 a month. That may mean getting somebody to help you out, and that may mean sharing equity with that person. It doesn't necessarily mean they are a co-founder. Co-founders and employees are very different animals.

Congrats on taking the first promising steps with your new venture. Best of luck.

<comment><USER3> Great advice!

What worked for me is to contact friends who are now in a very good finantial position. I have a high school friend and 3 years ago, when I was starting with this startup thing, he told me that he would like to listen to my ideas if one day I needed investment. So, now I need, I am ready to make an investment worthy, so I went to him, he liked the idea and he said yes!

He is not "smart money", and not connected at all with the rest of the market or the VCs. But is someone I can trust, smart and have the money (he is investment banking). Good enough for me.

But even if this works, by all means keep creating this network with VCs, successfull founders and mentors.

Also, you didn't apply to YC because you thought you didn't fit the demographics?!?! WTF?!?! You are quiting a job to do something with very low chances of success and is influenced by stupid myth? C'mon! Apply first, raise doubts later!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Move to the Bay Area. The actual financial EVs are strongly in your favor starting here over anywhere else. Your family might be far more open to the idea of moving here than you think. Ask them. A lot of people, including kids, have been properly convinced by the media that California is kind of awesome.

I think Oakland is the best place to actually build a company while raising a family here right now, by a long shot. The Oakland hills are fantastically livable, and the city of Oakland desperately wants you to start a successful company that will eventually want a waterfront corporate campus in the redeveloped area around 5th Avenue east of Jack London Square. However, your initial fundraising will happen in San Francisco and Mountain View, so San Mateo is the cheap, nice, developed, delicious, urban core halfway between San Francisco and Mountain View.

Befriend the leaders of companies that are leading angel and venture funded companies. Instead of asking for money, ask for advice.

Sign up for [https://angel.co](https://angel.co), fill it out, follow your friends and people you're a fan of.

Apply to incubators, including YC, for the experience of getting rejected from incubators while psyching yourself up for the experience of getting rejected by angel investors and honing your short form pitch.

Does your business school ever invest directly in companies founded by startups, or is there a group of alumni investors? Ask.

Do any of your well-paid coworkers and bosses from your previous job want to invest and live vicariously through you?

I like 1.5 million as a totally arbitrary amount you should raise.

<comment><USER2> You're assuming he is even American. Not everybody can move to California.

Also, 'liking' 1.5 million isn't the way to go about raising funds. you need to know what the money is for and how it will be used. I suspect anybody who went to an angel/vc and said '1.5 million will do as an arbitrary amount' would get laughed out of the room.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> You have an MBA, can't you leverage that network? maybe some of your classmates has some insight, or maybe there's a university service that helps new companies (there is one at the university where I did mine).

I would definitely try to network as much as I could, go to startup events, meetups, demos, etc. though your product isn't at the demo stage.

I think pedalpete's advice is good as well.

<comment><AUTHOR> "...though your product isn't at the demo stage"

You mean demo even though it's in advanced stage?

<comment><USER5> To be honest, I don't know if you should. But it seems that to raise money you have to put yourself out there and get contacts. I think PG mentioned referrals are a good thing.

Here's Steve Blank's (tongue-in-cheek) flowchart on how to get a VC meeting:

[http://steveblank.com/2012/10/17/how-to-get-a-vc-meeting- the...](http://steveblank.com/2012/10/17/how-to-get-a-vc-meeting-the- flowchart/)

I've never been in your place so I don't know if my advice is applicable and I live outside the U.S.

The other advice posted seems good.

Edit: other links, from Fred Wilson on how to pitch them

[http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/fred-wilson-on-pitching- un...](http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/fred-wilson-on-pitching-union-square- ventures.html)

From Wired, how to get a meeting with a VC:

www.wired.com/business/2007/07/how-to-get-a-me/

Another interesting link (european-centric):

[http://venturevillage.eu/12-things-you-need-to-know-to- get-v...](http://venturevillage.eu/12-things-you-need-to-know-to-get-vc- funding)

hope they help :) and good luck !!! Do tell us if you succeed! (or not, but let's think you will :) ).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Why do you need to raise money if you already have customers lining up to pay?

It sounds a bit like you are on the verge of making money from what you know how to do and instead of just doing that, you're trying to do something you don't know how to do first.

What is wrong with bootstrapping for now, focusing on delivery, and fundraising (or not) later?

The end goal of any business is not fundraising, but cashflow.

<comment><AUTHOR> I need to raise money for a few different reasons.

Right now, though I have an MVP-plus, a lot of the work that's being done is being done manually (e.g, analysis, report creation/generation, etc.). If I want to scale and get beyond a handful of beta-customers, I need to automate those processes. I've analyzed what it would take, and it's something that's out of my range to boot-strap. If I don't automate, or even partially automate, I'm going to be stuck with a handful of customers. With automation, I can add dozens, if not hundreds of customers.

Secondly, not only are some of my customers asking for a whole new incremental feature set, but I see the market ripe for the picking. In order to develop these new features, it'll require a new wave of development (for mobile) that I also can't self-fund.

Outside money would help in both of these, allowing me to move beyond perpetually having a few customers to growing this venture into a growing business.

<comment><USER6> All that makes sense over the medium term.

I still don't see a clear short term advantage in chasing funding _right now_ rather than converting a handful of potential customers into actual customers. That's not to say that there isn't one.

A potential customer who says "I would buy this if you added mobile" is a poor prospect at this point. They are a poor fit for your product [and in many cultures "maybe" is a less confrontational way of saying "no."].

Focusing on your strengths - design and delivery lead to validating or failing to validate your ideas more quickly and should your ideas validate, then attracting funding will be easier and it is more likely that you will do so on favorable terms.

If your ideas validate, then it will probably only be partially, and having that information before spending capital will allow you to spend capital more efficiently. For some people raising capital in your circumstances makes sense - particularly if they are good at it. By your admission, you are not.

Bootstrapping into perpetuity is one extreme. Slowing down right now to raise capital is the other. It is not an either or. There is a middle way, wherein you do not have to jump an additional hurdle before validating. All I've got to go on, is what you have said. It seems pretty well thought out, and my $0.02 investment in your business is based on your description and my gut feeling about human nature.

Good luck.</comment></comment></comment>


AllNurses.com founder kills family and himself - <AUTHOR> http://www.startribune.com/investigation-continues-into-deaths-of-greenwood-family/326692481/ <comment><USER2> This is really sad. Here is an article for Startup founders and how to cope w/ stress and protect their mental health: [http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-startup-founders- can...](http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-startup-founders-can-fight- stress-and-protect-their-mental-health/)</comment>


Show HN: Senior meets junior – Connecting engineers over side projects - <AUTHOR> https://www.smj.dev <comment><AUTHOR> I've noticed that people with really interesting side projects don't always have the bandwidth to execute at the pace they want.

At the same time, I find a lot of junior developers looking for opportunities to expand their craft. It's easiest to learn when you have something real to work on. But without opportunities that provide real world project experience, it's hard to get real world experience.

I thought it would be nice for junior developers to get opportunities to put their name on a project, while also seeing how something gets launched with real users works.

<comment><USER2> Really like this. I have a dozen ideas, and a lot of experience in back end / infrastructure, but no front end experience. I debated hiring college kids, but I don't have the money to pay a decent wage...

I didnt go through the whole thing, but is there questions for ownership considerations? Or questions to limit the country (for legal considerations).

This might only be a concern if there is "potential for money" \-- but what projects dont have that, at least in ad revenue?

Just concerned about being paired with someone outside the US, and needing to find a lawyer to draft a contract correctly for 2 different countries

<comment><AUTHOR> Im not sure this is the exact solution in your case. It sounds more like you are looking for labor, rather than a contributor.

I don't have answers around ownership/legal. In short, the idea should be that the project's owner is also the sole legal owner. If you write code for someone else's project, you don't sudden get a stake in the project.

Definitely something to work through.

<comment><USER2> I'm looking for a contributor, but I also know people are flakey... Especially the group I hoped to work with (college students).

I intend to do my share, how do I ensure a contributor does theirs and not make my life hell if we decide to put ads on the page after they disappeared several months prior?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Scrolling down pushes to the next view and then the back arrow leaves the application. This is very frustrating especially since this last question is free type in very large text.

This looks like a great idea though and I think it has amazing potential.

<comment><USER4> This appears to just be a form hosted by a third party survey tool. The OP isn't responsible for the tech.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> You should collection city as well. It makes a lot of sense to connect people who are in the same physical location, as meeting up can setup a bond for mentorship, that remote cannot as easily.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes! This is a great point. Right now, I'm talking with each person before moving forward with them, so I gather it later. I'm actually leaning toward connecting people who living in drastically different economic climates. Ie. global south-north.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Really cool idea. Does it matter whether the project is intended to ever make money?

<comment><AUTHOR> Not at all. I think sharing code/collaborating on projects will have its issues that I haven't figured out yet. Of course people dont want their IP stollen, but also you might be able to make some kind legal bond. I definitely don't think this is open source only.

I had a talk with the first user and he seemed to understand this as a bridge to start working on Node.js. What he wanted was any concrete opportunity to work on anything, and didnt care about being paid. He signed up as a junior dev, but really is a senior contract engineer.

<comment><USER4> Yeah, I think my biggest concern (as a senior) would be negotiating ownership stakes in the case of an actual product launch. It could end up being tough to make sure the junior is satisfied with their stake but also realistic about it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Not sure if you signed up yet, but would you be open to chatting about this?

This is exactly what I'm trying to hash out: [https://calendly.com/rememberlenny/20min- smjdev](https://calendly.com/rememberlenny/20min-smjdev)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Simple and Comprehensive Vulnerability Scanner for Containers, Suitable for CI - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/knqyf263/trivy <comment><USER2> [https://www.reddit.com/r/docker/comments/bpd2ro/a_simple_and...](https://www.reddit.com/r/docker/comments/bpd2ro/a_simple_and_comprehensive_vulnerability_scanner/)</comment>


Italia initiated investigation against Google, Apple and Dropbox cloud services - <AUTHOR> https://www.agcm.it/media/comunicati-stampa/2020/9/CV194-CV195-CV196-PS11147-PS11149-PS11150 <comment><AUTHOR> Translation: \--- CV194-CV195-CV196-PS11147-PS11149-PS11150 - <USER2> initiated against Google, Apple and Dropbox for cloud computing services

The proceedings relate to alleged unfair commercial practices and the possible presence of unfair clauses in the contractual conditions.

The Competition and Market Authority has initiated six investigations against some of the main global operators of cloud computing services. The parties involved are Google (for the Google Drive service), Apple (for the iCloud service) and Dropbox, each affected by both a proceeding for alleged unfair commercial practices and / or violations of the Consumer Rights Directive and one for alleged clauses vexatious included in the contractual conditions.

In particular, the investigations for unfair practices against Google and Apple concern the failure or inadequate indication, when presenting the service, of the collection and use for commercial purposes of the data provided by the user and the possible undue influence in towards consumers, who, in order to use the cloud storage service, would not be in a position to give the operator their consent to the collection and use of information concerning them for commercial purposes.

The same complaints are also raised against Dropbox, which is also accused - in addition - of failing to provide in a clear and immediately accessible manner the information on the conditions, terms and procedures for withdrawing from the contract and for exercising the right to reconsider. In addition, not to allow the user the easy use of out-of-court dispute settlement mechanisms, to which the professional is subject, with the necessary information to access them.

Proceedings for unfair clauses, on the other hand, concern some contractual conditions set out in the relative models of the aforementioned companies, such as: the operator's ample right to suspend and interrupt the service; the exemption from liability even in the event of loss of documents stored in the user's cloud space; the possibility of unilateral modification of the contractual conditions; the prevalence of the English version of the contract text over the Italian version.

Rome, 7 September 2020</comment>


Get the Anti-Startup and Anti-Angel Provisions Struck From Dodd's Banking Bill - <AUTHOR> http://www.davidblerner.com/david_b_lerner/2010/03/get-the-antistartup-and-antiangel-provisions-struck-from-senator-dodds-banking-bill.html There is a rather large missile rapidly approaching America's innovation culture. Predictably, it has been hurled in the most careless of manner by a group of uninformed politicians and their staffers in the form of Senator Dodd's sweeping Banking Bill. Putting aside the merits and thrust of the Bill itself, (which ostensibly seeks to regulate the banking industry), there are two provisions in it which, if not removed ASAP, will essentially wipe out a large chunk of one of America's engines of innovation- namely angel investing. These provisions will raise the bar on the definition of an 'accredited investor' from $1M in net worth or $250K in annual income to $2.3M in net worth or annual income of $450K! It will also hamstring angel investing by slapping any such investment with a 120 day SEC review. <comment><USER3> Article Summary:

Buried inside of the new banking bill is a provision that will raise the requirements to be an accredited investor. The new bill is proposed by Chris Dodd, the senator from Connecticut. The requirements are increasing from $1m in net worth or $250k in annual income to $2.3 million in net worth or $450k in annual income. Angel investment will also have to undergo a 120 day SEC review.

[http://hnsummary.com/2010/03/30/get-the-anti-startup-and- ant...](http://hnsummary.com/2010/03/30/get-the-anti-startup-and-anti-angel- provisions-struck-from-senator-dodds-banking-bill/)

<comment><USER4> My understanding is that the $1M requirement was signed into law by Reagan in the early 80s.

$2.3M is that amount adjusted for inflation.

You can make a case that the $1M limit was too low (at the time Reagan signed the bill), but imo it doesn't make sense to argue that - in general - <USER2> limit should not be adjusted for inflation

<comment><USER5> However the costs to launch a business have also decreased in the mean time, as have the size of angel investments.

<comment><USER6> The thing is, they're not just dealing with startups -- they're also dealing with fraudulent ventures calling themselves startups.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> My inner cynic wonders if the rest of the bill is as clueless about the other industries it regulates, as it is about startups.

<comment><USER8> the politicians aren't clueless; they know their job is to support the multi conglomerates - killing competition and funneling taxpayer money to those conglomerates via bailouts

<comment><USER4> If that were the case, why is Wall Street lobbying against the Financial reform bill ?

Most expectations are that Wall street will spend tens of millions of dollars against the bill

<comment><USER9> Who's saying it's not bad for many if not most companies?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm confused why anyone would put this provision in a bill. Does anyone have any background that might fill in the motivation here? They always talk about being pro small business, but this seems fairly blatantly against it.

<comment><USER11> I think it's most likely an attempt to cut down on fraudulent hedge funds. Currently, having "accredited investor" status is sufficient and usually necessary to invest in hedge funds, prvate equity funds, and startups. During the dénouement of the financial crisis, many mini-Madoffs were discovered, usually in the $5-200 million range. Most of these were pyramid schemes dressed up as hedge funds, but a few were fraudulent startups as well.

I think the main reason they're changing the definition of "accredited investor" is because it also affects who can invest in hedge funds, not because they're trying to affect startups per se. This is probably classic "unintended consequences."

<comment><USER9> I wasn't aware there were _many_ "mini-Madoffs"; I heard about one or two, maybe three. Could you point us at a source to back that assertion up?

(One should also be cognizant of Buffet's "when the tide runs out, you see who's been swimming naked". While I don't think he meant it in this way, "genius is a rising market" and when the market goes down a lot of scams are driven out into the open because they can no longer keep their game afloat.)

In general, great efforts have been made to paint hedge-funds as eeeeevil, but with little to no evidence that I'm aware of (note Madoff was't running one ... in fact, didn't he make a big deal about his _very_ low management fees?).

And I don't see how this is related:

The ostensible purpose of this legislation is to decrease systemic risk.

Preventing smaller investors from making necessarily small investments in whatever by definition isn't going to have much effect. The issues are big numbers, not small ones. And how does the 120 day delay fit into this???

Devolving the regulation of these investments to the states might in theory help, not that the SEC is a whole lot more useful than a potted plant (cd Madoff).

Regulating VCs as hedge-funds makes _no_ sense whatsoever (that's not a point you're making, but I can't help but wonder if they're related).

<comment><USER12> > I wasn't aware there were many "mini-Madoffs"; I heard about one or two, > maybe three. Could you point us at a source to back that assertion up?

Off the top of my head: Wextrust. <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/business/12wextrust.html>

I actually did some contract work for them in 2007, shortly before they were busted. I was never paid beyond my retainer. I found out why it was so hard to collect when the story broke in Crains Chicago. Normally I'd fight to get paid but they're now in receivership and I don't feel like taking scraps from charities and individuals who were wronged for so much more than I was.

edit: I understand that's just an anecdote, not real data. Basically media coverage is rare if the scheme is less than $200 million. There are some larger ones that never get attention because very wealthy people get taken and don't want to be made fools of for investing into these companies. I've got friends who work in the real estate business who've told me about several in the Chicago area that have been taken down or are under investigation. It was shockingly widespread, and I'd estimate there's easily thousands active worldwide.

Here's an incomplete list of ones that made the press in 2009: [http://madofffraud.boomja.com/Ponzi-Schemes-Reported- in-2009...](http://madofffraud.boomja.com/Ponzi-Schemes-Reported- in-2009-22206.html)

<comment><USER9> Thing is, < 200 million US$ frauds aren't systemic risks. Yeah, we need to police them, but they don't threaten the system. Madoff's only did because he was such a "pillar of the community" (of Wall Street).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It's clear that this administration is very much against startups....with government takeover of many industries, healthscare bill designed to tax investments/burden small companies with large health premiums, and now this. What can we do? Well, unless we remove the politicians that keep voting for these proposals, we will have no choice but to relocate to a friendlier country that doesn't try to kill startups at its infancy. In this day and age, anybody can launch a lean startup overseas.

<comment><USER13> Exactly which industries have been "taken over"?

<comment><USER8> Auto, Banking, Student lending, Home Mortgage, Healthcare.

<comment><USER14> I downvoted this because it's rather subjective as to what the definition of "taken over" is and you provided no evidence to support your broad claims.

<comment><USER15> Student lending isn't subjective, it's completely taken over.

<comment><USER16> Not so much. The U.S. government has always assumed all of the risk on student lending and was essentially just giving free money to certain private lenders without getting anything in return. It's removing a layer of bureaucracy more than it's a government takeover.

[http://www.coffeehousetalks.com/2010/03/landmark-day-for- edu...](http://www.coffeehousetalks.com/2010/03/landmark-day-for-education- finance.html)

<comment><USER15> The government was getting plenty in return, an educated populace.

That "bureaucracy" was a private industry. Now it's gone.

<comment><USER9> Errr ... is the formerly private bureaucracy going to be replaced by ATMs or the like?

I'm not aware of any claims that this will result in a net loss in loan administration headcount.

<comment><USER17> Just like the "online tax industry" is fighting to keep the IRS and state tax services from offering direct online tax filing.

I'd likely still use tax-prep software, but I'd like the option to file directly to the irs without an intermediary trying to charge me for services.

I guess that would be another "government takeover." :|

<comment><USER9> That just shuffles who in the private sector gets the data to the IRS, although as long as they're successful they'll ensure the employment of more government workers to oversee the paper to digital capture system.

I'm talking about the necessary people, wherever they are, who then have to process the paper work, deal with random out of band requests, dun people who don't pay up, etc. etc.

That work has to be done _somewhere_ (unless you prefer the model of Medicare with it's low, low overhead and insane level of bogus claims).</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Using Birds of Prey to Take Down Drones - <AUTHOR> http://www.wsj.com/video/using-birds-of-prey-to-take-down-drones/C83316C0-AE70-471C-8D53-EF9D2BE07E77.html <comment><USER2> couldnt the spinning blades injure the bird? I think the japanese police drone net is a better option but perhaps it is harder to catch the drones whereas the brids have been hunting and catching moving prey for a long long time so are much better at it.</comment>


Just started a blog, any feedback? - <AUTHOR> https://timd.one/blog.php <comment><USER2> There are no separate links for your posts. Not sure how have you created them, but you might want to try

\- WordPress \- Blogger

or best for programmers.

\- Jekyll [https://jekyllrb.com/](https://jekyllrb.com/)

and hosting it on GitHub pages.

Let me know if you need help setting it up.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for pointing that out, I'll definitely need link-able posts! Hopefully I don't have to redesign everything.

FYI, I'm just using Bootstrap and plain HTML/CSS/PHP with one or two JS functions.

Jekyll+Github looks like a pretty nice setup, although idk if it's worth the effort to change now.

<comment><USER2> Linkable posts are always useful. If you are worried about the effort. Please have a look at the one that I own. [https://ranvir.xyz/blog/](https://ranvir.xyz/blog/).

The basic version, [https://github.com/barryclark/jekyll- now](https://github.com/barryclark/jekyll-now)

I also use the basic CMS, [https://siteleaf.com](https://siteleaf.com) to manage it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Okay, I think individual posts should be linkable now. Does [https://timd.one/blog.php#pc-build](https://timd.one/blog.php#pc-build) work for you?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Your articles names are misleading (you were not building CPU, but PC) and it resonates more like newbie blog than a proper dev blog worth od ycombinator. Get more xps and try again. Also, are you asian?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, I have a horrible habit of saying CPU instead of PC since my brain thinks "ComPUter=CPU", even though I know the distinction.

You're right about it sounding like a newbie blog: there's no technical content (yet! I just wanted to get something up), and I've added explanatory stuff for things every real programmer should know. Instead of catering to everyone, I should choose an audience and write specifically for that.

I know nothing I have written will be front-page of HN, but you gotta start somewhere, and for me taking the inital step is the hardest.

I'm not Asian. What makes you ask?

<comment><USER4> hah - I had a high school teacher (~20 years ago - she taught the computer class) and she constantly called the entire box a 'cpu' too - a few of us gave her grief for it but it was all in good fun.

BTW I think your blog looks clean, good luck with it. Getting to the front page on HN isn't that hard, it's only a matter of time if you keep submitting.

Oh yeah - and definitely make separate pages for each blog post like rangerranvir mentioned - absolutely essential.

<comment><AUTHOR> Glad I'm not the only one, I may have picked it up somewhere. And thanks for the encouragement!

Yeah, I didn't realize that at all until he pointed it out. I will definitely need a way to share a link to a specific post...</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Haskell Code Navigation [video] - <AUTHOR> http://begriffs.com/posts/2015-07-27-haskell-source-navigation.html

<comment><USER2> Now all we need is something to take advantage of all these annoying to configure/setup tools and have something people can easily start with.

I know that ide-backend is attempting to provide something convenient for such tooling, but I'm not sure what the overlap with tools like codex, hasktags, and others used in this video are.

<comment><USER3> You're right I think ide-backend provides almost all of this. It was all working in FPComplete's web IDE. I think Chris Done is working on emacs integration with ide-backend.

<comment><USER2> I believe this is it:

[https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack- ide/tree/master/s...](https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack- ide/tree/master/stack-mode)

I haven't had a chance to set it up yet sadly, there'll probably be a release before I get a chance to set it up anyway :P</comment></comment></comment>


At CES, Impossible Burger 2.0 tastes too real for vegetarian reviewer - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnet.com/news/impossible-burger-2-0-tasted-so-real-it-made-this-vegetarians-stomach-turn/ <comment><USER2> Will it be cheaper than angus beef? If not I'd call that impossible alright.</comment>


A Mozilla developer re-invented Reactjs in 40 lines of code - <AUTHOR> https://hackernoon.com/a-react-redux-replacement-in-40-lines-of-code-c6f39437f1b9 <comment><USER2> This is rather interesting. My immediate thought is I wonder if without many more lines you could isolate components a bit more and replace innerHTML at an individual component level.

<comment><AUTHOR> It might be possible in the future. Right now the main dev wants to keep it as minimal as possible.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> A direct link to the repo: [https://github.com/stasm/innerself](https://github.com/stasm/innerself)</comment>