Dutch agencies provide crucial intel about Russia's interference in US elections - <AUTHOR> https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/amp <comment><USER2> Best bit - watching the hackers move in and out via hacked IoT security cameras. How very James Bond.

The Dutch have a lot more credibility with me than the 'five eyes' intelligence agencies. This is the first time I've seen claims so specific from people who aren't already tainted by mass dishonesty or political incentives. My inclination is to believe them. I personally find this testimony more convincing than reports from American firms or agencies.

That said, the hack of the DNC in question wasn't "hacking democracy" by any reasonable definition of the term, in my eyes. The leaked documents and emails were controversial because of what they showed about Clinton and the DNC itself. Voters only had more information after that. Claims that this undermined voters has to rely on the idea that if the Republicans had leaked emails they'd have been impacted in the same way but Trump basically leaks anything that pops into his head anyway, so it's hard to imagine. If the documents had been leaked by a DNC insider to Wikileaks instead, the outcome would have been the same and nobody would be freaking out.

Arguably both political parties should be required to release their internal communications to the public anyway. It's not clear what's to be gained by having that information be secret.

<comment><USER3> Small countries will do as they are told.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> > The Cozy Bear hackers are in a space in a university building near the Red > Square. The group's composition varies, usually about ten people are active. > The entrance is in a curved hallway. A security camera records who enters > and who exits the room. The AIVD hackers manage to gain access to that > camera. Not only can the intelligence service now see what the Russians are > doing, they can also see who's doing it. Pictures are taken of every > visitor. In Zoetermeer, these pictures are analyzed and compared to known > Russian spies. Again, they've acquired information that will later prove to > be vital.

Wow.

</comment><comment><USER5> > For years, Painter was responsible for America's cyber policy. He resigned > last August. 'We'd never expected that the Russians would do this, attacking > our vital infrastructure and undermining our democracy.'

Horse. Shit. They've been doing it to us, and we've been doing it to everyone else, for a LONG time.

<comment><USER6> Yeah, seriously. "We never expected this" while, say, hacking Angela Merkel's phone and spying on friendly countries in addition to installing backdoors everywhere...

This list is an exaggeration by someone with an extreme position but every one of these had US involement: [https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing- other-peopl...](https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other- peoples-governments-the-master-list)

It also is missing the ironic involvement of the USA dispatching people to help Boris Yeltzin come back from losing to winning the Russian elections in the 90s (it's not even a secret, see the movie Spinning Boris).

Can someone tell me _exactly_ what the word "hacking" means when people say "Russians hacked the election" over and above what was continuously happening by many countries the whole time?

<comment><USER7> The USA is now the lone superpower. The standards are (and should be) different from 1990s Russia.

<comment><USER8> In your eyes, what does this make China?

<comment><USER9> What's a China? /s. A superpower is defined as "a county that has the capacity to project dominating power and influence anywhere in the world". I'm assuming he didn't know that before, but now we can all agree, US is far from the only country that can project dominating power and influence.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> During the elections there were a bunch of different US citizens and companies that tried to influence the election, such as the released audio tape by NBCUniversal and the accusation of crimes levied against both candidates. From the outside looking in, the US election seems to primarily about different groups trying to do influence the election through scandals and barely anything about politics.

Even the bright line of "Foreign electoral intervention" seems more like a guideline than a rule. If >50% of the shareholders of NBCUniversal is owned outside of the US, does that make the tape an illegal attempt to influence US politics, while if its 49% then its perfectly legal influence of politics? Can we apply the same rule to the public listed owner of NBCUniversal, ie Comcast?

<comment><USER11> >During the elections there were a bunch of different US citizens and companies that tried to influence the election

If I remember the 16 election correctly I'm pretty sure the controversial part was when people's computers were broken into and their private emails were distributed.

<comment><USER10> After all the NSA leaks, can we really say that the act of hacking is the controversial part of the story? All the press and news article focus on the "influence the election" part, with not that much outrage over the actually means in which the influence happened.

Would we not have the exact same situation and discussion if a insider administrator leaked the emails?

</comment></comment></comment><comment> 52-6F-62 This story is wild. Recommended read.

</comment><comment><USER12> so much pride in this article because the dutch helped big brother US.

but why did AIVD hack the russians in the first place?

</comment><comment><USER13> it's a nice story, and that's just what it is. nothing is confirmed by anyone other than a mass media / news outlet, keep that in mind while you read. us democratic party is more friendly with Netherlands than republican party etc. Now that's not saying that this never happened, but need to stay objective and consider the bigger picture.

<comment><USER14> As a dutch person I want to make one thing very clear.

We mostly distinguish not between Republicans and Democrats (since neither fits any political identity here), but between people that make everything about politics and people who don't.

To suggest we fall for the same partisan trap that is currently responsible for the complete cultural and social fabric unraveling in the US is insulting.

We are a much more cultural homogenous country. Our political extremes are not debating whether the earth is round, climate change is happening or if our AIVD has video of Russians hackers doing these actual things.

The fact that Holland shared this information with the US during both presidents (Obama, Trump) is because we have a bone to pick with Russia after they shot down a plane with many dutch citizen in them above Ukraine.

The reason this information comes out at this particular moment, i.e. the timing. Is because Trump bragged to Putin about how the US has such good friends they could see the Russian hackers (remember this happening? Your agencies getting angry at Trump for leaking secrets?). That likely destroyed the operation. So now the timing of the leak of this factually correct information is all about how to do him (personally) the most harm.

This is not Republicans or Democrats. This is about Trump and Putin both getting a knee for their disrespect to us. Please be smart enough to not stand in the way.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> There is no mention of specific electoral interference in the (google translated) version that I read. There is a play by play hacking attack on the state department, with an attempt to install malware on state computers, but nothing is said about the election or how this attack might influence it.

Meanwhile, of course, AIPAC continues to spend millions of dollars per year to directly influence US elections, drawing no such scrutiny.

<comment><USER16> It specifically says that the Dutch watched Fancy Bear hack the DNC.</comment></comment>


Stop the Merger - <AUTHOR> http://attmobile.savetheinternet.com/video-vote

<comment><USER2> The Video Paradies (<http://attmobile.savetheinternet.com/video-vote>) make you laugh and Cry at the same time</comment>


Ask HN: Energy efficient computing chip - <AUTHOR> is it possible to have the cpu equivalent of non-volatile memory?<p>ie. a cpu that does not refresh and consumes no energy in its idle state until some data is available at its inputs? <comment><USER2> In theory static CMOS behaves this way but there is still some power consumption due to leakage. Some microcontrollers have ultra-low-power sleep modes.</comment>


What is Thirdhand Smoke? - <AUTHOR> https://www.oransi.com/page/thirdhand-smoke <comment><AUTHOR> Not posting this because I believe it but rather how the page uses such manipulation to pitch their solution.

<comment><USER2> Right? According to our next study, wrong.</comment></comment>


Using fabric with EthOS - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/degconnect/ethos-fabric <comment><USER2> So you can do degflasher([http://flasher.degconnect.com](http://flasher.degconnect.com)) using your fabric file too. Is it really easy to flash RX 570 4GB using it?</comment>


Global Honeybee Deaths Have Been Blamed on the Wrong Culprit All Along - <AUTHOR> https://www.inverse.com/article/52843-whats-killing-the-bees-really-i-mean-it <comment><USER2> Varroosis and mite infections in general are well known and treatable diseases. The headline is a bit misleading, it sounds like a cause for colony collapse disorder has been found, which it hasn't. Good to see scientists working on and publishing research on anything bees though.</comment>


How to find Even or Odd number without Modulus Operator - <AUTHOR> http://javarevisited.blogspot.hk/2013/04/how-to-check-if-number-is-even-or-odd.html

<comment><USER2> Are problems like these actually asked during job interviews?

I don't mean that this isn't a good topic, just that I always imagined that interview questions would be harder to solve and that they wouldn't ask for contrived solutions (solutions that aren't obvious and could lead to bugs for new coders, while not being better in many other ways).

<comment><USER3> Hi Ryankey721, yes, it does get asked. Interviews are funny, some time you get theoretical non relevant question, some time easy one like this, and very rarely relevant coding exercise.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Dear ${DEITY}, this makes all java programmers look bad. Really all it should say is

public static boolean isOdd(int i) { return i & 1 == 1; }

<comment><USER3> This looks really nice, better than isEven() version.

public static boolean isOdd(int i) { return i & 1 == 1; }</comment></comment>


How to Become Convincing - <AUTHOR> https://dcgross.com/how-to-convince-people/ <comment><USER2> > Listen. Try to ascertain what the person really wants. This requires > listening at a whole new level. When they talk, notice what causes their > eyes their eyes to light up.

This a hundred times. When you have pitched an idea long enough (30 times? depends on the idea evolving) the words just flow out of your mouth; and then you can start reading the eyebrows as the words then require no cognition.

Pitch a story with a digest/summary of your idea, and dive into specific content right there when the eyebrow is raised. The eyebrow will tell you what their value system is. The eyebrow will help you make an impact by letting them lead the conversation, and get follow up meetings.

This means structuring your pitch as a quick scan for them, with reaction- triggering items first. Looking up the background of the interlocutor will help with the order of items.

Also, don't try to say everything you wanted to say. Just let them integrate your item into the coherence of their mind, at their pace. At this point, listening to them is them hearing you.

<comment><USER3> Someone Pitching An Idea: Its late at night, you're kinda hungry, you also need to get home and you've had a few beers, you _want_ a kebab, but you _need_ a cab. Thats when you need the KABAB - the driver shows up and cooks you your kebab while they drive you home.

VC Dude: raises eyebrow

Someone Pitching An Idea: I've found your value system

VC Dude: get out.

<comment><USER4> What about a KEBAB that brings you kebabs?

That company exists, and it's called Uber Eats.

Sometimes an idea just needs a small tweak to be viable!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Please don't do this. This idea has spread ad nauseum through copywriting, sales, marketing and product management teams.

Whenever I visit a product page these days, I have no idea what it does. It's trying to tell me how much better it'll make my life instead.

Just be direct and stop playing games.

<comment><USER6> Amen! Companies are spewing full-on BS (euphemistically called USP/Positioning etc.) in trying to market/sell their "stuff". In-spite of being a technical guy, often i can hardly understand (due to the obfuscations employed) what the product does, making it difficult to judge the value proposition for myself. There is no more reality and truth, everything is a facade and falsehood.

A good example, was the pitch for a product "Sidekick" here on HN a few days ago. This was basically just a always on tele-conferencing app on a tablet but was posted as "revolutionary" something (their website too was full of hyperbole) and quite rightly, got called out on it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> FTA : "Listen. Try to ascertain what the person really wants."

Funny, to me "convincing" is usually the act of making someone agree to what _you_ have in mind. And I envy those who can do that 'cos usually I don't have the strength to do it :-(

<comment><USER8> Outside of physical force, the way to make someone agree to what _you_ have in mind is to show them how it ties into what _they_ want.

<comment><USER7> Yes of course, but most of the time my ideas are somewhat "on the edge" so it's very difficult fro anybody to accept, so it's tough to convince.

Example 1 : run free software, it's better. Example 2 : what about sharing a car ? Example 3 : what about not buying useless gifts ?

I usually want to convince people _not to do_ things instead of doing more or better. So the odds are against me :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> "Suppose you want someone to quit smoking. The fantasy you want to plant is how youthful they'll feel when they stop. The most effective way to incept a person isn't to say those words. Instead, say something like: "it must feel wonderful to run 3 miles in the wilderness, take a breath of fresh air and really live life."

When was the last time you met a smoker that wanted to run around the block, let alone 3 miles? This article was nonsense.

<comment><USER10> I was smoking the most around the time I was most fit and did a lot of sport. I learned to smoke in the sports club. And drink too and swear a lot too.

People who do sports are no puritans.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I hate these marketing ideas.

I actually tell vendors to strip the first 20% of their presentation because I am not interested in their history and learning that security is important (my pro topic).

I also tell them I will have extremely technical questions so they better have a technical guy.

Lastly, I tell them I will need their pricing.

About 50% of companies actually follow what I am asking them. About 10% is genuinely glad to go that way and we often contract.

I had one company once coming with a demo disk array (ca. late 90's). They told me that nothing can break their RAID technology so I just pulled a disk out and everything crashed. They told me that this is not the way I am supposed to behave and they will not do business with inconsiderate people.

They were so disappointed in me that it was borderline touching. These were the pre-powerpoint times and companies would send knowledgeable people. We ended not buying their product but stayed in touch.

</comment><comment><USER12> Convincing is a function of the evidence and the jury.

If your evidence is strong, highlight the evidence.

If it's weak, practice your Cialdini and Carnegie. Manipulating people is a time honored tactic.

But don't kid yourself about which of the two you're doing.

</comment><comment><USER13> How to Become Convincing

treat everyone like an idiot

disclaimer: only works on idiots

anti-disclaimer: that is 90% of the population, including "successful" people

</comment><comment><USER3> tl;dr

Whenever someone tells you something, don't listen to their actual words, rather make up a story and apply it to them, respond to that instead.

Aso, if you do listen 'be like Kellyanne Conway' and disregard that as well and suggest something entirely different.

I don't have the strength to go on, but that is, and i don't say this lightly, one of the worst things i have read on an internet.

<comment><USER14> Sounds like you're not convinced.

<comment><USER3> How to convince people by Young Ned

Don't tell them to be like Kellyanne fkn Conway

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk</comment></comment></comment>


Uganda hackathon winners is building crowd funding platform to educate poor kids - <AUTHOR> http://www.garage48.org/blogger/somesha-will-educate-children-through-crowd-funding-platform

<comment><USER2> I think they different since with <http://www.somesa.org> the idea is to donate not lend

</comment><comment><USER3> sounds like a less developed Vittana

<http://www.vittana.org/></comment>


[ASK HN] How to accept International Credit Card payment for an Indian Startup? - <AUTHOR>

My startup is based in India and I have only Indian Bank Account.<p>I am using Paypal but is looking for better options since paypal looks to be a ticking time bomb. <comment><USER2> Hi there - You may consider trying [https://www.payzippy.com/](https://www.payzippy.com/) Its owned by Flipkart.</comment>


Ask HN: Why vBulletin / phpBB communities are slow on mobile? - <AUTHOR> I wanted to know why they are super slow on mobile <comment><USER2> Slow as technology or slow as being adopted to use mobile devices to engagement?</comment>


Mail Handlers Used to Poke Holes in Envelopes to Battle Germs and Viruses - <AUTHOR> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/mail-handlers-used-poke-holes-envelopes-battle-germs-and-viruses-180975020/ <comment><USER3> > _And then there were the anthrax attacks in 2001. The Postal Service soon > began irradiating mail sent to zip codes in Washington D.C. associated with > federal government agencies, AND STILL DOES._

A one time event, but we are saddled for life with security procedures and their associated costs that can never be ended. Just like 9/11 and the TSA's security procedures.

<comment><USER4> The relics of this pandemic like huge sneeze guards in businesses are probably going to be around for the next 30 years.

<comment><USER3> The one I'm most worried about is the acceptance of cash.

<comment><USER5> After giving in for a few weeks during the local height of the pandemic, I've come back to pay cash only. I hope everyone who cares does.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "Major Walter Reed, an Army surgeon, proved that mosquitos transmitted the virus that caused yellow fever"

If anyone else also asked himself how do you actually prove that - <USER2> surprisingly, you infect volunteers with a mosquito that has bitten an infected person. Multiple tests were needed to establish the exact timeframe when the person is contagious.

</comment><comment><USER3> > _The (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) recognizes that while it > may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or > object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or > possibly their eyes, this is not thought to be the main way the virus > spreads_

There was a rash of headlines back around May 20 in which news outlets proclaimed that the CDC had changed its guidance from saying that fomite transmission was a concern to wasn't a concern. It turns out that those headlines were based on nothing and those stories were debunked by the New York Times[1]. The CDC had been consistently saying that fomites were an unlikely route of transmission but had tweaked the wording on their website and news outlets jumped all over it as if it were based on new research.

[1] [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus- to...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-touching- surfaces.html)</comment>


Span – An abstraction over all types of memory available to .NET programs - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/dotnet/corefxlab/blob/master/docs/Span.md <comment><USER2> Cool. Interesting value-add inclusion.

I wrote a FileSpanStream class to implement BitTorrent file writes in BTSharp years ago.

While it's not targeted toward in-memory implementations, it is a similar type of wrapper abstraction and might be well understood by developers familiar with the "Span" abstraction (esp. after the Span<T> generic is in the BCL).

I can imagine scenarios where the FileSpanStream could be leveraged for non- BitTorrent use cases. (max-filesize constraints, load disribution, other, use your imagination).

I'm on mobile right now but I'll follow-up with a license-compatible contribution for consideration for inclusion.

P.S. Keep up the good work .NET Core Team. I've been keeping an eye on the project since you've been providing cross-platform distributions and it's extremely exciting. I loved working at Microsoft (especially when the .NET team with Brad Abrams was publishing things like .NET library design guidelines). I miss the .NET that I loved working with in 2004 and the .NET Core project is bringing me back one design at a time. Cheers.

<comment><USER3> The main use cases are actually way more mundane, but also much more impactful. Consider some of the most common string manipulation code you see: grab a substring, compare it to some stuff, branch based on results.

Since strings are immutable and non-sharing, all substring calls will create copies of the substring. With Span<T>, you could instead simply request a span of the string and, with unification in the underlying typing, you can perform all of your string manipulation with no allocations or copying.

<comment><USER2> I'm all aboard the existing use cases for Span<T>. I said that when I said "interesting value add inclusion." for the Span<T> inclusion. Not sure I get your comment.

<comment><USER3> Oh, just clarifying for people that it's not just unusual apps with large blocks of memory that will benefit. Even mundane apps that do a little string manipulation will see the results.

<comment><USER4> I wonder how much string manipulation you'd have to be doing to see a benefit. I still can't use C#6 everywhere at work because some teams insist on being in VS2010 / 2012, so I'd be pretty worried about going to C#7.

<comment><USER5> A lot, I guess. Famously, Java's String worked that way (sharing the buffer for sub-strings and only storing offset and length) for a long time, until they changed that, I think in Java 7 to the same what .NET uses currently (copying the sub-string).

Both approaches have benefits and drawbacks, but apparently copying the sub- string seems to be best for the vast majority of cases and you only benefit from the shared buffer in select cases (also it's a great memory leak opportunity if you don't know how it's implemented). So I guess it makes sense for .NET to _add_ the capability (in a more general form that also works for other things) instead of only having one or the other.

<comment><USER3> The problem with sharing is that you can inadvertently keep a massive string alive by only holding on to a tiny piece of it.

Span<T> conveniently side steps this issue by only existing on the stack, meaning that you can't stash away the span somewhere and accidentally keep the underlying buffer alive longer than necessary.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Interesting idea, but most interesting to me is the stack-only restriction. I'm curious how they're going to enforce that, and whether that property will be limited to Span or can be used with other types.

<comment><USER7> It seems that it will CLR-enforced so I would guess that it's not going to be available for any type:

      The fast representation makes the type automatically stack-only, i.e. the constraint
      will be enforced by CLR type loader. This restriction should also be enforced by
      managed language compilers and/or analyzers for better developer experience. For
      the slow span, language compiler checks and/or analyzers is the only option (as
      the runtimes won't enforce the stack-only restriction).

<comment><USER3> Right, ultimately it will be enforced by the CLR type system, much the way most types are in .NET, but practically it will be enforced by the compiler.

You can already see this in the "ref parameters" feature in C# today: they can be parameters to methods but cannot be stored in fields. This implies that they can only exist on the stack.

Similarly, when we add support for ref-locals and ref-returns in C# 7 that will still disallow ref fields, so ref variables will still only be allowed on the stack.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Awesome!

Just last month I developed an algorithm to solve performance issues related to traversing a large graph. The algorithm required an array of hundreds of millions of structs and performance was very important (as one might assume when using a lot of RAM!). Allocating on the native heap worked like a charm!

My solution was too-coupled to the specific problem I was working on, I'll be looking to use Span<T> instead as soon as I have time to convert.

</comment><comment><USER9> Not having to copy big arrays when calling unmanaged C dlls from .Net will be great for performance. I wonder if this is going to open up new security holes though.

<comment><USER10> You can already pass big arrays to unmanaged code without copying just fine: allocate a GCHandle of type Pinned, and pass AddrOfPinnedObject as the pointer.

The use case for Span is more within the managed realm: it allows pointer-like manipulation of memory, without having to special-case it for each type.

And although anything with pointers is of course asking for trouble to some extent, you don't lose any safety in most scenarios (those not involving obvious giveaways like 'unsafe'...)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Are there any good writeups for the new APIs that are coming to .NET? Things like the System.Buffers API don't get the attention they deserve IMO.

<comment><USER12> Well you can watch Joe Duffy's presentation about their work on Midori and how it is influencing C# 7 and future versions.

"Safe Systems Programming in C# and .NET"

[https://www.infoq.com/presentations/csharp-systems- programmi...](https://www.infoq.com/presentations/csharp-systems- programming?utm_source=infoq&utm_medium=videos_homepage&utm_campaign=videos_row1)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13>
      Span<T> is a new type we are adding to the (.NET) platform to represent
      contiguous regions of arbitrary memory, with perfromance characteristics on
      pair with T[]. Its APIs are similar to the array, but unlike arrays, it can
      point to either managed or native memory, or to memory allocated on the stack.</comment>


MonoLisa is a monospaced typeface specifically designed for coders - <AUTHOR> https://monolisa.dev/ <comment><USER2> Nice site but I'll be sticking with Source Code Pro. I make my monospaced font decision pretty easily, how does the letter "o" look, perfectly round? Good, is the letter "c" also perfectly symmetrical? Excellent. MonoLisa is a bit too glamorous, to the point the letter "g" is hugely distracting. I also find the letter heights too tall, a very similar issue I found with JetBrains's new mono font.

</comment><comment><USER3> In my opinion it's rather wide. I already feel certain lack of screen width even with full-screen terminal with two tmux panes, one taken by vim with four windows (1920x1080, 11pt Consolas; I would love to have three 80-char columns with gaps, but it's not enough even for 79-char ones).

Similarly, for print/web publishing most monospace fonts are overly wide and don't play well with the surrounding fonts when used inline or require reduced point size for blocks of code. The very few exceptions are Knuth mono fonts, they look fabulous in print and, I guess, PragmataPro, although I haven't used it myself.

So, in my opinion, trying to make an even wider font is going in a wrong direction.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is nice, but it's not $59 nicer than Inconsolata.

Expensive proprietary fonts are for graphic designers where the right font can pay for itself. It doesn't make sense for developers where Inconsolata is free everywhere, and Microsoft and has Consolas which is free as in beer. Apple has a very well received developer font as well, although I don't recall its name.

Can anyone justify this price tag for me? Devil's advocates accepted.

<comment><USER5> > Apple has a very well received developer font as well, although I don't > recall its name.

Either Menlo ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menlo_(typeface)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menlo_\(typeface\))) or SF Mono

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> If it's wider than Fira Code then it's too wide for me, personally. I often need 4 panels open side by side.

</comment><comment><USER7> I like the spacing better than the other fonts, but the lowercase 'r' is pretty nasty looking. I can't get over that, nor do I think I can use it.

</comment><comment><USER8> You should repost this, the font looks really nice.

<comment><USER9> Is it $59 better than Hack or your default though?</comment></comment>


Nest to join forces with Google's hardware team - <AUTHOR> https://nest.com/blog/2018/02/07/nest-to-join-forces-with-google-hardware-team/ <comment><USER2> I typically do not like Google and a lot of ways the company acts and performs.

However, recently I moved into sysadmin-type work, partly doing work for state governments. Cybersecurity is really bad everywhere, and it's scary, and it's frustrating how abstract and very theoretical all the risk is as it makes hard (justifiably) to take seriously.

Anyway, Google's reputation with security is (fingers crossed) nothing short of "almost bulletproof", and I'd love to see more IoT devices from them. With the recent rollout of Nest Security System, we've actually been advising lots of small businesses to combine this system, along with Nest cameras + fire alarms as a solution to actual physical security and fulfilling compliance alarms. Since Nest also does cellular backup in case of internet outage, we just hook everything up to an APC and the whole system can run for 10+ hours without power or internet.

Also also, Android security sucks. Not Google's fault, but thank god they moved to making their own phones. Maybe that will encourage better behaviors from other manufacturers.

<comment><USER3> Android security is Google's fault. Any kidding yourself that might occur through believing that OEMs deserve any blame for an update mechanism (or lack thereof) in a system designed by Google is pretty easily discredited, especially when you consider it took Google five months to patch KRACK in the Pixel 2, when third party ROM authors did it in _two days_.

Also, Google's "reputation with security" needs some serious nuance: They are very good at preventing types of exploits they care about, but they are a literal joke when it comes to security that interfaces with submitted content and user choice. Consider that the Chrome Web Store is a literal cesspool of malware, and that a lot of websites blatantly try to force you to install extensions through the Chrome Web Store which steal your browsing data. Since extensions are permitted to request such a huge security hole, Google doesn't consider it their problem that extensions do it maliciously.

Because Google doesn't consider something they gave permission to do malicious things to be an exploit or vulnerability, Google can simultaneously claim that Chrome is the most secure browser, and it be literally the easiest browser to get malware with.

I can definitely agree with you that state level government security has a long way to go and is a pretty scary place. But Google can't fix it, because the biggest problem in government security is still humans, a security layer that Google has repeatedly demonstrated no understanding of.

<comment><USER4> >Android security is Google's fault. Any kidding yourself that might occur through believing that OEMs deserve any blame for an update mechanism (or lack thereof) in a system designed by Google is pretty easily discredited

It would seem you still don't understand how Android is built. Google cannot update the phones made by other OEM's. OEM's download the Android source code, add their modifications and create their own forked version of Android. This is like asking Debian to update Redhat's Linux distribution. Blaming Google for the OEM's inability to update their own phones is disingenuous, but it does support your prime directive of disparaging Google every opportunity you get.

>especially when you consider it took Google five months to patch KRACK in the Pixel 2, when third party ROM authors did it in two days.

Those patches were provided by Google incidentally. Additionally, Google patched KRACK in Dec, 2017 on the Pixel phones. So where exactly did you get this 5 months?

>Also, Google's "reputation with security" needs some serious nuance: They are very good at preventing types of exploits they care about, but they are a literal joke when it comes to security that interfaces with submitted content and user choice. Consider that the Chrome Web Store is a literal cesspool of malware, and that a lot of websites blatantly try to force you to install extensions through the Chrome Web Store which steal your browsing data. Since extensions are permitted to request such a huge security hole, Google doesn't consider it their problem that extensions do it maliciously.

Could you point me to the malware on the Chrome Web Store? Since you claim it's a "literal cesspool of malware" it shouldn't be that difficult for you to point to those extensions. I look forward to those links.

<comment><USER5> Google requires device certification to access their services, including legally enforced contracts.

They just don't care about updates, otherwise they would remove certification access to any OEM not providing updates.

Even with Treble they are letting the OEMs do the updates, if they ever take place.

And to add to injury, devices that are upgraded to 8.0 instead of being released with it, don't require Treble compliance.

So, our lovely OEMs are mostly shipping Android 7.0 devices in 2018 to avoid Treble.

It is 100% Google's fault.

<comment><USER6> > They just don't care about updates, otherwise they would remove > certification access to any OEM not providing updates.

I think they care, but they can't do something about it. Because OEM's dislike updates. Updates does not sell new phones.

Google on the other hand actually has it easier if all their devices are up to date. They do not need to maintain old code/branches whatever.

It's still Google's fault that they never had something in place to enforce it. They basically wanted to have anybody on board of the OHA, so they needed to make tradeoffs in their contracts.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think this was the natural progression intended from the beginning and it's a good thing. I personally like the aggregation that Google is undergoing. All hardware under hardware, all cloud related under Google Cloud etc. I understand Kaggle is going to be part of Google Cloud as well. Which makes sense. There was a very large fragmentation of teams previously.

</comment><comment><USER8> I really wish Google/Nest would end their corporate beef with Apple and integrate with HomeKit. What happened with the openness of Google?

Instead of buying Nest's _entire line_ to outfit the house I'm building, I'm avoiding them completely even though I think their products are at the top of their class.

Nest isn't unique anymore... neither are their cameras... and they are late to the party with the doorbell. Do I think they are great products? Absolutely!! But they aren't in a position of leverage, the market is becoming commoditized, and forcing consumers to use only your app is a poor strategy. Especially considering it wasn't until a few weeks ago did Nest's app support iPhone X's new format, MONTHs after it was available to the public.

<comment><USER9> HomeKit is not using open standards. Google and Nest are. Your question should be reversed. Why doesn't Apple just use OpenThread or one of the competing open source IoT frameworks?

[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/11/google_open_sources...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/11/google_open_sources_thread_in_bid_to_win_iot_standards_war/)

<comment><USER10> HomeKit was announced in June 2014, and _released_ September 2014.

Thread was developed at Nest. The Thread Group was _announced_ July 2014, far into HomeKit's R&D cycle. There wasn't much, or obvious, commercial support for for years. (Although to be fair, HomeKit has taken forever to get traction, too.)

I believe that at the time Apple was also concerned about the quality and security considerations of a Thread-like system. I can't prove or cite this, but having worked with Apple engineers who worked on MFi (ironically, I worked with them at Nest, not Apple), I'm skeptical of the narrative that it was devised as a revenue source. My sense from the culture of Apple when I was there (90s) and everything I see coming out of there more recently is that Apple tries to maintain standards of peripheral quality, security, and compatibility and that have been difficult to find in the Android ecosystem, say, although this has been detrimental in the case of HomeKit adoption and they've finally backed off.

<comment><USER11> Thread was developed in the Thread Group, and like any standardization body, was (and is) open for any company to join at a variety of membership levels.

All members had input in the specification, and subsequent specs.

<comment><USER12> Sweet. Where's the link to the reference server implementation, and how do I point a nest thermostat at it instead of google? /s

<comment><USER11> I know you're being sarcastic, but for folks who are actually interested, you can request access to the Thread 1.1.1 specification here [1], and you can contribute to Nest's open-source implementation of Thread here [2]

[1] - [https://www.threadgroup.org/ThreadSpec](https://www.threadgroup.org/ThreadSpec) [2] - [https://github.com/openthread/openthread](https://github.com/openthread/openthread)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Not sure if this is a smart move, the Brand Nest was far enough removed from Google to feel different to customers.

Now explaining to my mother that we want to install Google Cameras in my Apartment is a whole different deal.

<comment><USER14> It's not clear that the branding will change? Companies can use multiple brands and this one is well-established.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is going to make it hard for direct product competitors to do business with Google now IMO. Before it was made very clear that the two groups were VERY separate within Alphabet.

So as a competitor (say a camera maker) you could feel somewhat OK partnering with Google Home integrations because there were legal protections that data, roadmaps, confidential info wouldn't be shared.

Now they're literally the same person, according to this. Ouch.

<comment><USER16> But they never were separate, right? Nest employees had Google badges and had offices in Google buildings and ate lunch next to Googlers.

This just smells like politics.

<comment><USER17> >Nest employees had Google badges and had offices in Google buildings and ate lunch next to Googlers.

did they? i thought nest was an alphabet subsidiary, and operated as an independent company to Google.

<comment><USER16> Nest was a Google subsidiary before Alphabet was formed. Across the street from their offices are Google offices. I've talked to Nest employees about their use of Google infrastructure, in a Google office.

It didn't seem like there was any more separation than you'd expect of the Android and chromecast groups, for example.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Nest is probably Google's strongest hardware brand (although it has some blemishes). I wonder what this looks like within Google?

Will Google HW products become branded under Nest? Will Nest remain specific to the home? Will the Nest brand be dropped entirely? Will things remain "separate-but-together?"

Will Nest Weave [1] become the default IoT offering from Google, superseding Android Things? Will Nest Weave run on GCP?

I'm guessing there is quite a bit of turf-warfare going on to determine the answers to those questions.

[1] - [https://nest.com/weave/](https://nest.com/weave/)

</comment><comment><USER18> Mozilla's open source home automation project is a very big silver lining to this kind of news. Google has not shown any interest in creating a truly open platform, or in creating lower cost hardware alternatives (no not everyone wants an audiophile speaker in a simple home automation controller).

<comment><USER19> I am excited about Mozilla's project.

It's probably just my Stockholm syndrome of being 100% invested in Apple's ecosystem, but I'm kind of less interested in how open something is (because open often means "slow, takes forever to get anyone to agree"). I'm more concerned about companies actually having an attention span of more than a couple of years.

Is Mozilla's thing going to last for 10 years? Is HomeKit? HomeKit has a better chance. But look at things like Google Weave. What even happened with that?

All that said, HomeKit, even though it seems superior to everything else from a security standpoint, has been moving at a glacial pace. Hopefully this software authentication stuff will make a difference.

The only ecosystems that seem to be sort of thriving are closed, but extensible ones (Alexa, Google Home) and their originators seem incentivized to keep them going.

<comment><USER18> > The only ecosystems that seem to be sort of thriving are closed, but > extensible ones (Alexa, Google Home) and their originators seem incentivized > to keep them going.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I think Amazon has a big advantage in that it has sold a massive number of Echo and Echo Dots and is fairly open in all respects except the actual voice data captured.

<comment><USER19> Right this is my point. The "openness" kind of doesn't matter in practical terms, mostly because the platform is SO extensible and everyone has integrated with it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> My only concern with this move is that Nest products might become less open as a result.

Apple, Google, and Amazon are developing competing ecosystems and Apple has been making/keeping theirs as closed as possible. Amazon has remained relatively open and Google has been somewhere between the two.

I get the feeling that Google would love to be a completely closed system and they seem to be moving in that direction.

<comment><USER21> _My only concern with this move is that Nest products might become less open as a result._

Will they become better tested, or will it work the other way?

<comment><USER20> I guess that largely depends on your opinion of their current level of testing and Google's level of testing for their other hardware. Presently Nest utilizes the Centercode platform to manage a pool of beta testers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> > built with Google's artificial intelligence and the Assistant at the core.

Thank god. Nest cameras' object detection leave a lot to be desired as of present. Like accuracy.

I was going to say that Nest products could use some Google software engineering polish—which they could—but then remembered the state of Music and many Play apps on iOS.

</comment><comment><USER23> The article isn't totally clear, this is a rebranding announcement, right?

<comment><USER24> No, apparently Nest is still both a brand and a coherent unit, but instead of a direct subsidiary of Alphabet it will be a unit inside the larger Google Hardware unit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> So how long before Google pulls support from Amazon devices like they did with YouTube?

I _love_ this silo problem.

</comment><comment><USER26> Weren't they already a subsidiary of alphabet? I don't quite get this.

</comment><comment><USER27> What's happening to the Nest brand, then?

</comment><comment><USER28> Probably the end of Nest as we know it.

<comment><USER29> Has nest really had a successful product past the v1 hockey puck thermostat?

<comment><USER30> The smoke detectors are fucking great. Even if they are expensive they are worth every cent.

<comment><USER31> Those are Nest's worst product.

Failure to detect smoke: "Consumer Product Safety Commission: Nest Labs Recalls to Repair Nest Protect Smoke + CO Alarms Due to Failure to Sound Alert" [1]

False alarms.[2]

[1] [https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2014/nest-labs-recalls-to- repai...](https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2014/nest-labs-recalls-to-repair-nest- protect-smoke-co-alarms)

[2] [https://www.dailydot.com/debug/nest-protect- annoying/](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/nest-protect-annoying/)

<comment><USER32> Perhaps it would be more convincing if these reports weren't over 3 years old. I own multiple Nest Protects, with no issues whatsoever. A year ago, I got pinged on my phone while we were out and about about a CO leak. Turned out we'd forgotten to turn the stove off. Without that ping, we'd probably only have come home a couple of hours later. That alone is worth their cost to me.

<comment><USER33> What's worth the cost? Some saved gas from the stove?

<comment><USER34> Saving a possible inflammation probably?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> I will be so frustrated when Google makes my thermostat stop working by end of living Nest.

<comment><USER36> That seems like an unlikely outcome of this event, not a foregone conclusion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I still don't see the point of the Nest thermostat. It takes seconds to adjust mine for the day, or just turn it low in the morning before work and up in the evening. It's such a minor improvement that I can do fine without it.

<comment><USER38> You have to be physically present to do so. The Nest can be set over the Internet using a mobile app. That's a categorical difference. That's not worth hundreds of dollars to me, but it's a feature some people care about.

<comment><USER39> There's also the option to tie your heating system into your local utility provider's network. My utility pays $25/yr to let them turn down your heat a few times a month, when load is high. Combine that with a $100 rebate on the Nest, and actual cost to me can be recouped in a few years.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> This sounds good, until Google wants me to sign into a Google account to use Nest products and then I have to uninstall them from my home.

</comment><comment><USER41> It really seems dumb to have a thermostat at all. If I have a smart home, why not just have an app for controlling temperature settings? With a google home, I should be able to say "Set temp to 21".

<comment><USER42> A thermostat is the interface to the climate control system, how could you possible remove it from the system? Where would the temperature feedback come from?

<comment><USER41> Ha, yeah was a quick comment. To be clearer - Why do I need a temperature interface hanging on my wall? Why not split the device into two; a measurement device (small, portable) and a controller (remote control, app, voice controls).

<comment><USER43> I have a "wireless" thermostat (Honeywell Redlink) and there are a lot of problems you have to think through to make it work. In particular, what is the failure mode when the thermostat can't communicate with the furnace? What if your internet goes down and it can't communicate with your phone? You might need a different failsafe for when it's 0C vs 25C outside, but what if your exterior temp sensor stops working or can't communicate with the furnace? Not to mention the security implications of having an appliance on your network.

All these problems are made much simpler with a wired thermostat and battery backup. I wish it was easier, but in this case "smart" doesn't really buy you much energy or UX savings over a simple programmable wired device.

<comment><USER44> If the Internet goes down, you could still connect locally. It could even create its own wifi hotspot, like many devices nowadays.

 _Not to mention the security implications of having an appliance on your network._

Yeah, but the Nest is already connected.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you go about taking notes when interviewing candidates? - <AUTHOR> For instance, do you take notes? On what? About what? <comment><USER2> With pen. I usually bring a printout of both their resume and a list of questions that I've prepared based on a careful read-through of their resume. Then I mark these up with notes during the interview.

</comment><comment><USER3> "Tell me about yourself" while taking notes" Strong No Hire" :)

</comment><comment><USER4> index cards</comment>


Hoʻoponopono, Hawaii's trendy word that's misunderstood - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20180916-hawaiis-trendy-word-thats-misunderstood <comment><USER2> My comment is not about ho'oponopono, it's about cultural appropriation, which is mentioned in the article but probably wasn't why the submitter found this story worthwile. Sorry for that.

Can someone help me out with a dilemma? OTOH, I can see the point that minority cultures have been, and continue to be, horribly mistreated. I can see how cultural appropriation can be hurtful in that context.

At the same time, I can't get past how the whole concept reeks of stuffy nationalism. Can you defend the right of minorities to define and protect their cultures without supporting the idea that the nation or race you are born into defines who you are?

<comment><USER3> My sense is the general argument goes: if you, as a member of the dominant race/class do something (adopt a style of dress, way of wearing your hair, style of music, etc.) which, when it is done by its originators leads to discrimination against them (for example people of African descent wearing their hair in dreads) but becomes cool and even profitable for you (think Elvis playing R&B), that's appropriation. I agree it's tricky because I don't think we want to advance essentialist arguments in general, but the focus is more on the unfairness than the "only X can do Y".

<comment><USER4> If the majority starts doing something then they'll stop discriminating against everybody else for doing it, so that sounds like a net positive. Cultural appropriation is a good thing because it dissolves the boundary of unfamiliarity.

<comment><USER5> If formalwear of the future is to consist of multiple popular styles, and not just the western suit, then we shouldn't discourage people from trying clothing from other cultures.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I practice self-identify throught ho'oponopono (sith) for almost 3 yeas now. This is an "updated version" of traditional ho'oponopono created by Morrnah Simeona, and it became popular with Dr. Hew Len with the help of Joe Vitale (a popular self-help book writer featured in "The Secret" movie). In essence, you take 100% responsibility for all problems that you experience. By taking responsibility, we can become free of them. All problems are nothing but memories stored in our subconscious. With ho'oponopono, we appeal to the divinity (god/universe) to transmute those stored memories into void, and then void becomes filled with love.

So if you have a problem with someone, by taking 100% responsibility, and by doing the cleaning processes, you and that person becomes "free".

I've studied a lot about modern ho'oponopono. I can see resemblances with other books and philosophies such as Eckhart Tolle's Power of Now books, A Course in Miracles, etc.

<comment><USER7> > In essence, you take 100% responsibility for all problems that you > experience. By taking responsibility, we can become free of them.

This was one of my biggest take aways from working up the ladder of starcraft 2. If you don't take responsibility for a loss then you don't have the power to prevent it in the future.

> All problems are nothing but memories stored in our subconscious.

I suppose so

> With ho'oponopono, we appeal to the divinity (god/universe) to transmute > those stored memories into void, and then void becomes filled with love.

Wait, what?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Grew up in Hawaii, had no idea the word was trendy and don't think I've heard it since grade school. Really weird to me.

<comment><USER9> Same.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I love reading about anything related to Hawaii.

Any HN'ers who live there? What's it like for [remote] tech work?

<comment><USER11> Have worked there remotely. It's ok, the time difference is a pain especially for clients on the east coast. Internet was fine. Pretty expensive cost of living, probably wouldn't rush back there. If you're going to deal with the time difference anyway, might as well go all the way to SE Asia and save a lot of cash.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> >Leslie Tuchman was visiting the Hawaiian Islands when she came across the concept of 'hoʻoponopono' in her Reiki class, introduced by her teacher as a word for self-forgiveness.

What is the world coming to when you can no longer trust the people with magic hands?

I knew a reiki master. He broke his leg and had pins put in it at the hospital. So, being a reiki master, he pulled the pins out himself with pliers and then used his reiki powers on his leg. He now only has one leg, after infection nearly killed him, but last I heard is still claiming to be a reiki master.

<comment><USER13> wow. I can't even imagine the amount of confidence you must need to think to even do that AND think it's a good idea. It must have been incredibly painful to do himself too (I'm guessing he pulled them out before his leg was even ready for such a procedure). Having had a few pins in my wrist I can not discourage this enough. wow.

<comment><USER12> He does also take a fair amount of heroin. That probably helped with the process.</comment></comment></comment>


US Patent 9085897: Space elevator - <AUTHOR> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=9085897 <comment><USER2> It's quite amusing that they try to bill this as a space elevator, when it has almost nothing in common with what is typically considered a space elevator: It won't reach space; and it's envisioned as a building rather than a tether to a counter-weight. Seems like billing it as a space elevator is a pure PR move.

Also, is 30% of fuel costs really going to be worth it? According to [1] Elon Musk claimed fuel is only 0.3% of the cost of current rockets. Even if we assume SpaceX slashes the overall cost to 1/10th without touching fuel costs, that still only brings fuel up to 3%. 1% additional savings doesn't seem like it's going to do much to help finance a 20km tower.

Of course if single stage to orbit planes are viable from it, then that may make it more attractive, but it seems peculiar to focus on the fuel cost.

[1] [http://www.space.com/21386-spacex-reusable-rockets- cost.html](http://www.space.com/21386-spacex-reusable-rockets-cost.html)

<comment><USER3> 30% less fuel means smaller, lighter rockets. Compound cost savings over all.

<comment><USER2> That's a good point, but then it is an odd thing for them to care about the fuel savings vs. their claim of not needing the first stage and allowing for single stage to orbit with a plane type launcher, which is a far bigger deal in terms of cost savings.

E.g. consider that Musk a few years ago estimated the fuel and oxidizer costs for a Falcon 9 v1 at ca $200k per launch, with a list price for the launches at $54m to $59.5m. Cutting the cost of the rockets themselves on the other hand, whether by reuse or making them smaller/cheaper will matter much more.

I guess whether eliminating the first stage entirely vs. reuse will matter much will depend on how many times recovered stages can be reused and how much it will cost to prepare them for reuse, as the potential fuel savings are basically rounding errors.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Would this ever hold up in court? This describes the idea of one, without the impl. It is like me stating "I am planning on building a rocket, it will have stuff coming out this end, and it will fly to space". Isn't the point of patents the _how_ as well as the _what_?

Any lawyers able to comment?

<comment><USER5> I'm an IP lawyer :)

The patent covers a pressurized space elevator tower.

However, note that the part they have really patented here is the "plurality of segments and pressurized cells" part. The claims were amended during prosecution, in light of the examiner rejecting them all as anticipated by various references :)

The way to discover this is to go to the USPTO's "public pair" system, enter the application or patent number, click "image file wrapper", and you can see all the correspondence between the examiner and the applicant. You are looking for the rejections and the amendment/claims parts that happened.

In response to this rejection, the applicant added the "divided into a plurality of segments along a length of the space elevator tower, each of said plurality of segments containing a plurality of cells defining a core, and a plurality of stabilization devices distributed along the length of the space elevator tower; wherein the plurality of cells are pressurized with a gas to support the pneumatically pressurized structure; and wherein said plurality of stabilization devices is configured to provide active stabilization of the space elevator tower using a harmonic control strategy." requirements in claim 1.

This means a space elevator tower which was not exactly this would not be covered in any way (because they have given up doctrine of equivalents by amending the claims).

That is just on it's face. In court, if someone came up with a reference for a space elevator with these features, it would be invalid there too ;)

<comment><USER4> "stabilization devices"

"plurality of segments", "plurality of cores"

It's just describing building a tower using multiple sections which is in itself sub-divided. this sounds like a pure concept as well. And still very broad as they didn't specify the size of the sections. Nor did it specify what the stabilization devices are.

<comment><USER5> "his sounds like a pure concept as well"

What do you mean by "pure concept" that's not a patent thing :)

Do you mean an abstract idea?

Because it isn't. It's a method of constructing a physical thing. "And still very broad as they didn't specify the size of the sections."

They don't have to, as long as it's possible to build it.

Again, your complaint seems to be the examiner didn't search hard enough to find references. This is not a simple problem to solve (Trust me, I have worked on it for years)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Here's something that I've been mulling around for some time:

Instead of a vertical structure, as pretty much _every single_ space elevator contains, why not make one that is tangential to the surface of the planet?

Yes, it will be substantially more materials, but if made such that the 'tail' of the elevator is trailing the rotation of the planet, it might be partially self sustaining. (Think of a string attached to the edge of a merry-go-round whipping outwards)

One would literally pick a point on the planet and build due west. Due to the curvature of the planet, after X number of miles, you'll be several miles up in the air.

Is this not anymore farfetched than a 100km tall tower?

<comment><USER7> Yes, substantially so.

First off, the way stresses work it is substantially easier to build straight up than in any other direction.

And secondly, you're missing something. Namely, that the only reason why a string attached to an edge of a merry-go-round whips tangentially is because of air resistance. In a vacuum, or if the air was moving with the merry-go- round, the string would be radially-pointing. (There's also a component of "the merry go round is slowing down", but that also isn't particularly relevant.)

As such, it makes no sense to build something this way. About the only case where not building straight up would make sense is if you're slightly off of the equator - in which case you should move to the equator.

Although I suspect you have the wrong impression of a space elevator. You don't build up, you build _down_. You have a satellite / asteroid / etc in geosynchronous orbit. You start spooling out two lengths of wire - one down, one up. When the lower one reaches the surface, you anchor it. Then attach a counterweight out beyond geosynchronous orbit.

<comment><USER8> Actually, building straight down is substantially easier than straight up.

You are incorrect with your statement about "the way stresses work". The reason it is substantially easier to build straight up is due to our implicit basis where up is towards space. This is getting rather high level but stresses are actually tensors and hence are dependent on the chosen basis. If your basis has up pointed towards the north then it is substantially easier to build a different direction than up.

This may seem like a semantic argument but it is actually an extremely important distinction when discussing any tensor (position, velocity, stresses).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I wonder if space elevators should be added to perpetual motion machines as inventions for which the USPTO will demand working models. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion#Patents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion#Patents)

<comment><USER10> I highly doubt it. As I understand it, a traditional space elevator is quite possible to build (we just lack the materials and motivation, chiefly), whereas a perpetual motion machine seems to be ruled out by current understanding of physics.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I sometimes wonder if patents should require building one first.

<comment><USER12> I thought there was some sort of requirement about "reduction to practice."

But according to [0], there is also "constructive reduction to practice", which "occurs upon the filing of a patent application on the claimed invention."

That's not the same thing! Someone definitely got the meaning of those words mixed up.

And yes, I would love to see them try.

[0]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_to_practice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_to_practice)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Take a rabbit, also called a hare, consider that this was conceived and patented by rabbits - yes, definitely a hare brained scheme.- On the analysis side, we have a picture of a 20 kilometer high sail, standing up at right angles, through areas where the air currents go as high as 300 Kilometers per hour(jet stream) and they feel this will stay standing. In my opinion, this will never be built. Small scale models will show the folly of this. By the way, at 65,000 feet, the lift of the helium filled top pocket will have near zero lift. Fools errand

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Press release from 21st July 2015: [http://thothx.com/news-2/](http://thothx.com/news-2/)

<comment><USER14> I love how the renderings completely fail with physics. There is no way that you can land on top of a space elevator like that because of the lack of a centripetal force to hold the planes and rockets in place.

Edit: Oh, that's because it is not a space elevator...

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Oh good. That means that in 20 years, when this sort of thing becomes feasible, new patents can all be challenged based on prior art.

Right?

</comment><comment><USER16> How can they patent an idea everyone's already had before?

<comment><USER17> It's not what we would think of as a "space elevator", it's an inflatable tower 20km high with a landing strip on top.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> This is the first chapter of Neal Stephenson's book "Hieroglyph".

</comment><comment><USER19> This reminds me of a thought I had a while ago. What's the bet the first lot of buildings on Mars will include a copyright office, a patent office, and a court.

</comment><comment><USER20> Better idea: superconducting magnet floats platform up through Earth's magnetic field to low orbit. Conservative field: net zero energy to cycle up and down.

</comment><comment><USER21> Project Heiroglyph actually has a short story that was written along side a technical paper describing how to make this work, it's worth checking out: [http://hieroglyph.asu.edu/project/the-tall- tower/](http://hieroglyph.asu.edu/project/the-tall-tower/)

</comment><comment><USER22> How could you possibly hope to patent-troll someone with deep enough pockets to build a space elevator?

</comment><comment><USER23> Reminds me of

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountains_of_Paradise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountains_of_Paradise)

</comment><comment><USER24> I was excited until I looked at the images included in the patent application and discovered that the space elevator is made out of paper towel tubes.

</comment><comment><USER25> I had this idea before basically stacking balloons, but the math does not work out as a space elevator. You could use it as a launch platform though.

<comment><USER26> I haven't read through the patent, but I heard an interview with them that says they want to use it to launch SSTO spaceplanes. They also are hoping that some company like Boeing will pick up the actual building portion of the task.

<comment><USER27> Why have I heard this before...

"I have a great idea for this app, I just need a programmer to help me build it. No, I can't pay you, but I can give you 15% of the company!"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I didn't read all of it but searched, and saw no mention of weather. Wouldn't a strong wind have a ton of leverage to push this over?

</comment><comment><USER29> This should be re-branded as a nuclear waste ejector, maybe it (and nuclear power option) would get some [more] traction.

</comment><comment><USER30> Feed that with gravitricity. Could be funny and efficient.

</comment><comment><USER31> Can we bring back 'reduction to practice'?

</comment><comment><USER32> an article I submitted day ago is worth reading and commenting on: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10070990](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10070990)

</comment><comment><USER33> here's xkcd on Space Elevators (and fountains): [https://xkcd.com/536/](https://xkcd.com/536/)</comment>


Rosette: a solver-aided programming language that extends Racket - <AUTHOR> http://emina.github.io/rosette/ <comment><USER2> This is seriously impressive stuff. "Solver-aided programming language" might sound esoteric, but it's the natural evolution of the same trend towards higher-level, more declarative programming that replaced 'goto' with 'for', and 'for' with 'map'. You can judge the merit of programming approach by how much it punches above its weight, and the list of applications written in Rosette is short but impressive[1] (especially considering it was only released in 2013). I'm particularly impressed by Chlorophyll, a "synthesis- aided programming model and compiler for GreenArrays GA144, a minimalist low- power spatial architecture":

>We used Chlorophyll to compile an accelerometer-based hand-gesture recognition application for GA144. This application occupied 83 nodes out of 144 nodes. In this demo, GA144 was running on 1.8 V, and the application drew 0.24 mA. This means we should be able to run this application using two lemons![2]

If you've never heard of the GA144, it's an amazing chip designed by Chuck Moore (inventor of Forth) that provides computational grunt comparable to an i7 for a few milliwatts, on a 180nm process no less, at the cost of an awkward architecture of a 12x12 array of chips with very little RAM whose machine language is Forth. Because of this architecture, and despite considerable interest, few have actually managed to program the GA144 to do anything interesting. This demo of an application written in Rosette might just be the most interesting thing anyone's ever gotten a GA144 to do. On that basis _alone_ , I'd say they were on to something.

Aside: imagine a "demoscene" of who could run the most advanced application on a lemon!

[1] [http://emina.github.io/rosette/apps.html](http://emina.github.io/rosette/apps.html) [2] [http://pl.eecs.berkeley.edu/projects/chlorophyll/](http://pl.eecs.berkeley.edu/projects/chlorophyll/)

<comment><USER3> This does seem very interesting! Because of your comment I started reading the architecture document for the GreenArrays[0] chip, and it's totally different to anything I've seen: a network of processing units, and the whole thing without a clock anywhere!

I am interested what makes you say it "provides computational grunt comparable to an i7 for a few milliwatts" though - could you elucidate? Do you mean in terms of performance-per-watt?

[0]: [http://www.greenarraychips.com/home/documents/greg/PB002-100...](http://www.greenarraychips.com/home/documents/greg/PB002-100822-GA- Arch.pdf)

<comment><USER4> Interesting, it reminds me a bit of the game TIS-100[0], similar idea of an array of very simple units interacting by I/O ports, blocking until a read/write to another unit can complete. I didn't know there was a real architecture like that!

edit: It seems the transputer[1] was similar, hadn't heard of that either.

[0]: [http://www.zachtronics.com/tis-100/](http://www.zachtronics.com/tis-100/)

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transputer#Links](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transputer#Links)

<comment><USER3> The transputer actually has a successor called the XCore[0], which is produced by XMOS. They're founded by the same fellow that came up with the transputer (David May).

It's a similar concept again - it's a multi-core chip for embedded applications, and the cores communicate using an on-chip network. Each core is like a regular CPU with a clock though - the GreenArrays approach seems to be completely asynchronous.

[0] [http://xmos.com/](http://xmos.com/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Exactly. Why would I write a custom, small, incomplete and much slower solver by myself for my compiler, when I can just use a fast SAT solver (cryptominisat and friends), which are complete and have an acceptable license.

Looking at scala, pony, haskell, but really any modern language working on dependent types: python, php, cperl, ruby, ...

</comment><comment><USER6> Interesting, but I wanted to read an easier example. For example see: [http://emina.github.io/rosette/doc/rosette- guide/ch_essentia...](http://emina.github.io/rosette/doc/rosette- guide/ch_essentials.html#%28part._sec~3aqueries%29)

</comment><comment><USER7> Something very similar for Haskell, as a library: [http://leventerkok.github.io/sbv/](http://leventerkok.github.io/sbv/)</comment>


Live stream development of our open-source project - <AUTHOR> https://floobits.com/bsears90/servicebot/file/config/redux/saga.js:33 <comment><AUTHOR> We are live streaming our Notification System development of ServiceBot. Github link is: [https://github.com/service- bot/servicebot](https://github.com/service-bot/servicebot) Please give us feedback :)</comment>


Grant Imahara, host of MythBusters, dies at 49 - <AUTHOR> https://www.wlwt.com/article/grant-imahara-host-of-mythbusters-dies-at-49/33305253# <comment><USER2> Duplicate: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23828444](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23828444)

<comment><USER3> There have been several. We've merged them into [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23828253](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23828253).

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's definitely a sad moment. I tooked photos of him and the group when they visited dragoncon in Atlanta around 2009 / 2010\. Something cool happened, I was invited to a after hours party with the whole team. I had to chancel my previously scheduled competitive drinking at that time but of course I did.</comment>


Ideas are Worth Nothing - <AUTHOR> http://kevendones.posterous.com/ideas-are-worth-nothing

<comment><AUTHOR> @jamesbritt I understand your point, but 37 Signal's was an already establish business bringing in some type of revenue from their products. Once you have a successful product that is selling people are going to copy your idea and revenue model no matter what. It's simply the sad truth. Your job as an entrepreneur is to create a barrier to entry, the harder the entry point the least you have to worry about it.

</comment><comment><USER2> im so fucking sick of the "ideas are worth nothing, execution is everything" meme. execution on a poor idea is just as "worthless".

<comment><USER3> Contrast this mantra with the periodic stories of people stealing other sites, business process, and, well, ideas.

For example, when HuddleChat, a knock-off of 37 Signal's Campfire, was released, there was a bit of a frenzy. Someone copied all the ideas in the app, and apparently those ideas were worth something.

Simple, high-level, abstract ideas may have lower value; detailed ideas, ideas about execution and presentation have more value. At some point, they are worth protecting.</comment></comment>


Salesforce Developer Conference with Guy Kawasaki (Business Web Apps are becoming a big deal - My thoughts from attending yesterday) - <AUTHOR>

<comment><AUTHOR> My cofounder and I went to the Salesforce Developer Conference in Santa Clara yesterday. The highlight was Guy Kawasaki's extremely entertaining talk. He also included some very good advice on getting funding - specifically to keep any slide presentation to investors to a total of 10 slides, and he included what should be on them. (I'll be getting those in the email soon - if you're interested let me know.) Also, his very humorous point that you should keep your presentation point size to a maximum of 50% of the maximum age of your audience, usually 30 points.

I think the technical highlight was seeing Adobe's Flex and Apollo in action. Truly impressive. Salesforce has also opened their API for mashups and created their own language, APEX, run on their "cloud" that developers can use. Their idea is to create a high value platform on which business applications can be built and communicate with other business data. Google was there as well, demonstrating how to connect salesforce to Google apps.

Salesforce currently has over 600,000 paying subscribers at a price of $60 to $250 per month per user, with some very large companies that have up to 20,000 plus users. They do plan to profit heavily from developers that work with them, from 10% of any subscriptions by app exchange developers, to large costs for exhibiting at their conference, etc.

One of the featured speakers at the event was the CEO of a 6 person company in Toronto that develops exclusively for Salesforce's app exchange. They are currently in line for making 2.4 million this year after bringing in 1 million last year. Of those 6, only two are in the same location. He owns 100% of his company with no outside investment.

There is no doubt that a seismic shift is taking place for businesses using web applications instead of supporting their own IT infrastructure. I think this is similar to the Lotus 123 explosion with PC's.

<comment><USER2> What data leads you to the conclusion that a seismic shift is taking place? I imagine it is a very big step for a company to trust a web service with their data (I can't really bring myself to do it, and I am not even a company). There is also the issue of reliability - Google probably won't go away over night, but any other web application provider just might. How do you continue to operate your business then?

<comment><AUTHOR> Those are good points. To be successful, any business web application will have to have a very good explanation of why their service provides an extremely high level of data security. To solve the potential of a web app. going away, the application needs to provide a very easy way for the business of extracting all their data in a form where they can easily deploy that data using another application.

The seismic shift is being made possible partly by Salesforce. Their users tend to be the top tiers of management and sales, and they have completely sold that level of users in so many small and extremely large corporations. This means that the rest of these companies' users are easy targets to shift over to web applications if a meaningful service is made available as the upper management fully understands web applications and their value. Having that new set of web application operate seamlessly with upper management, and feed financial data back to upper mangement for analytics is a very big deal.

The seismic shift is being made possible by reliable secure data platforms. We plan to use S3 and have an xml option for extracting all data. For businesses, the ROI of using web apps is growing tremendously. The cost of providing all that infrastructure in house is huge, and the applications they currently use are very poor at collaborative work, which is what most businesses need. So the door is open right now in a way I've never seen before for business web applications that work well and connect to other applications. The key is interconnecting all of the companies data - something most companies have only dreamed of until now that the web approach can provide in an elegant and low- cost way.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Please send those slides if you can to email@example.com. Thanks so much!

Joe

<comment><USER4> <http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2005/12/the_102030_rule.html>

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'd like the slides/info, thanks. toisanji _AT_ hotmail.com

<comment><USER4> <http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2005/12/the_102030_rule.html>

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> can you give me the name fo teh toronto company - might have some work for them. udai00 (at) gmail.com

<comment><AUTHOR> <http://www.crmfusion.com/></comment></comment>


Crunchbase now has an API - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/15/crunchbase-now-has-an-api-so-grab-our-data

<comment><USER2> PG, If you could add a "Working On" or "Working For" element to our user profiles, or if everyone decided on a standard format, we could create a nice little widget with the Crunchbase API.</comment>


The Ego's Curriculum Vitae – The Coffeelicious – Medium - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/the-coffeelicious/the-egos-curriculum-vitae-c57b5151930a#.efnnssg3u <comment><USER2> Please post such links only with the article title and leave the extra bits at the end off, per [https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)</comment>


Plaid Deletes GitHub Issue Exposing Imitation of Bank Login UIs - <AUTHOR> Plaid imitates major bank account UIs in their login forms to make users more comfortable submitting their bank credentials to Plaid. This issue was addressed in this Github issue (archived from WaybackMachine): http://web.archive.org/web/20190415103059/https://github.com/plaid/link/issues/68
The Github issue has since been deleted, as shown here: https://github.com/plaid/link/issues/68. I'm hoping this isn't a repost, but this behavior seems ridiculous to me, and I'm hoping to bring it to wider attention (if it isn't already).
Edit: post flagged for some reason. Oh well. <comment><USER2> Hi all - co-founder of Plaid here. We're in the process of migrating this repository and replacing it with a dedicated iOS SDK repo, JS SDK, and (soon to be) Android SDK. However, I messed up the order of operations with this migration and can empathize with the reaction. I personally chatted with a lot of the commenters on the original issue before we did this and more than happy to engage/get feedback from anyone else over email/phone/in-person. Feel free to shoot me an email at william [at] plaid [dot] com if you want to chat/have any feedback.

<comment><USER3> No offense, but I think we'd all be better off with open bank API standards in the US.

<comment><USER4> Obviously. But why would banks ever do that? They see Robinhood, Lending Club, Venmo, etc as competitors. No way there going to open up API's to them unless the government forces the banks to do it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Here's my main beef with Plaid: a lot of times when you use it as an end user you have no idea that you're giving one of Plaid's customers full history on all of your transactions, accounts, credit cards, loans, etc. Plaid presents you with a ToS that you will probably never read.

Compare that to something like "Sign-in with Google" or "Sign in with Github". They put it in plain english exactly what the website you are signing into is asking permission for and you explicitly say I'm ok with that.

<comment><USER6> I wonder if an enterprising attorney general could try to go after Plaid for CFAA violations. They are arguably making unauthorized, fraudulent access to banks' computer systems.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Seems to have happened not because they deleted that specific issue but because they have disabled issues in general for that specific repository. Take a look at [https://github.com/plaid/link](https://github.com/plaid/link) and see there is no "Issues" tab. When doing that, it removes all existing issues.

<comment><USER8> as an owner of multiple orgs, I dislike that I can't disable new issues while retaining history.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> > Plaid imitates major bank account UIs in their login forms to make users > more comfortable submitting their bank credentials to Plaid.

But it's even worse than that. They're training their users to ignore the security advice that their banks and other web providers have been trying to teach them for years, which makes them more vulnerable to phishing attacks. As one of the commenters on Github said[1]:

> _This is horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible practice. Any > malicious actor can copy your design and present a perfectly genuine-looking > Plaid input form and gather bank credentials from victims. There 's > absolutely no way to tell whether a Plaid input form is genuine without > examining the HTML source of the page, which is far beyond the ability of > almost all users. What good is your $1000 EV cert and your brand's hard-won > trust if the user just sees Wacky Joe's Discount Dolphin Assholes, secured > by letsencrypt.org in the area of the address bar where we've been telling > them to look for a trusted name for about the last decade?_

The commenter's next paragraph also bears repeating:

> _You guys need to get your act together and realize that you 're not in the > business of hosting Wordpress blogs or building marketing pages for the > latest Barbie Rides Horses Again game somehow still coming out for the > Nintendo DS. You collect bank credentials. Re-read the previous sentence. Do > it again. Essentially my entire net worth is kept in my Schwab brokerage > account which shares the same login as my Schwab checking account. If > someone gets my Schwab credentials and I don't notice before they empty me > out, my life is over. You simply cannot half-ass security best practices for > the sake of UX convenience._

[1] [https://web.archive.org/web/20190415103059/https://github.co...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190415103059/https://github.com/plaid/link/issues/68#issuecomment-440894224)

<comment><USER10> I completely agree, but having your life savings under the same login as your checking account is insanity. Maybe I'm overly paranoid but I wouldn't even log in to my broker from my phone.

<comment><USER9> You also might not want to keep your entire life savings in a single account. It's convenient, but also a single point of failure.

And if your life savings gets big enough, it might exceed the account balances that are protected by FDIC ($250K) or SIPC ($500K, I think).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> _michaelckelly commented on Dec 7, 2018

@skierpage and @briangordon we appreciate your concerns, which is why our compliance team vets anybody who uses Link. As to malicious knock offs, this is a matter that most successful companies lookout for and deal with -- as we and our security team do._

This person should not be allowed to provide services that use bank APIs. Who should do the preventing? Banks.

</comment><comment><USER3> Plaid needs to be exposed as one of the most unethical companies in SV. If people are worried about online privacy then they should really be worried about a company that is so deceiving and makes it basically impossible to revoke permissions on something as sensitive as access to your bank account and transaction history once granted.

<comment><USER12> can you revoke by changing your password?

<comment><USER3> I'm not sure, but does it matter?

I take issue with a product that markets to consumers as an easy way to _authenticate_ for the purpose of pulling or pushing funds, but is actually _authorizing_ developers to scrape years of transaction history in 20 minutes, my real time balance, my phone/email/address etc. without another level of permission. It's disgusting.

I just wanted an alternative to microdeposits to prove to an app that I own a bank account, not give the app free range to steal all my bank data in the process of doing so.

<comment><USER13> In Europe we have PSD2 and similar things which are working towards much more of an oauth type of situation.

<comment><USER14> In Europe there are industry consortiums working specifically on the account access topic: [https://www.openbankingeurope.eu/](https://www.openbankingeurope.eu/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Hah. This is the only company that has ever f—ked me over. I'm a self-employed consultant who flew out to SF to work with them and was told the gig was off the working-day before we were set to begin. My lawyer said I absolutely had a case but I'd need to be prepared to open an international lawsuit against them (I'm UK-based) and I just couldn't muster the effort. They got away with it.

They also quite cheerfully asked me 'Hey! Next time you're in the area we'd love to look at working together?' Classy.

</comment><comment><USER4> Not to downplay the security implications here, but Plaid has pretty much changed finance. It's a straightforward case of trading security / privacy for functionality. Apps like Venmo, Robinhood, Wealthfront, and most every other financial startup would not exist without Plaid.

</comment><comment><USER16> This is the first time I'm hearing of Plaid and is it actually something banks have signed-off on and are ok with? This whole thing looks to make for a bad precedence.

<comment><USER17> Absence of open banking standards and regulation produces such monsters.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Since HN doesn't turn URLs in text submissions into clickable links like it does in comments, here are the URLs given for your clicking convenience.

[http://web.archive.org/web/20190415103059/https://github.com...](http://web.archive.org/web/20190415103059/https://github.com/plaid/link/issues/68)

[https://github.com/plaid/link/issues/68](https://github.com/plaid/link/issues/68)

</comment><comment><USER19> I feel it's worth bearing in mind that this is normal to the point that the financial regulator in the UK standardised the activity as part of the EU-wide PSD2. It is being phased out in favour of open banking in the next couple of years, now that there's a requirement for more OAuth-like approaches. (In fact, Plaid just launched in the UK on the open banking APIs)

Banks are well aware that this is a thing and they're not that bothered.

If you want to see this improve, maybe push on US regulators to formalise it?

<comment><USER20> Here the Finnish Financial Supervisory Authority stated in Jan 2018 that this practice is not allowed:

[https://www.finanssivalvonta.fi/en/regulation/interpretation...](https://www.finanssivalvonta.fi/en/regulation/interpretations/01_2018/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> The scariest thing is whether they keep downloading transactions or just verify i own the account like they make you think they're doing.

<comment><USER22> In today's economy, data is the most valuable asset a company can own, and financial/transaction data is the holy grail. I would be very surprised if their current valuation could be justified purely on their subscription sales alone.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Hard delete of an issue over closing it or closing comments... for such a security sensitive issue... under the rug sweeping.

<comment><USER24> Well, thanks to the fact that you can't delete anything off the internet it will still be presented as evidence in court some day.

This confirms to me that staying as far away as possible from plaid is the right move.

<comment><USER23> What would you recommend for ACH bank account verification?

<comment><USER25> Micro deposit while cumbersome and slow, works fine.

I don't believe access to all of my most personal data should be 'frictionless'.

<comment><USER14> Micro deposits definitely do not work fine. If banks offered an authenticated way to confirm bank account & routing number instantly and without access to txn history, would be much better.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Plaid really do seem a little dodgy to me. In the UK they are effectively offering a PSD2-API forwarding service, which seems very much against the spirit of PSD2 and the open banking initiatives.

<comment><USER26> It's very convenient. But also very expensive (maybe) The raw costs of getting an AISP licence are about £1000 in the UK... but that's ignoring all of the time and effort to understand PDS2, legals etc but $500+/month for Plaid to do it for you ? I'm not sure. Sounds avoidable like vendor lock in to me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I really hate that transferwise essentially requires me to use Plaid, yet they don't support RSA keys!

</comment><comment><USER28> This is depressing. It feels to me like the number of tech unicorns that have been caught red handed doing something immoral/unethical/illegal is starting to outweigh the ones that haven't.</comment>


Jim Dunne, photographer who revealed automakers' deepest secrets, dies at 87 - <AUTHOR> https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2019/08/21/jim-dunne-man-who-revealed-automakers-deepest-secrets-passes/2065600001/ <comment><AUTHOR> They're called spy photographers. This guy created an entire industry. Maybe it's more important in Detroit than elsewhere.

There are photographers sneaking pictures of European cars too. Oddly there's no one sneaking pictures of early versions of Japanese, Chinese or Korean cars.</comment>


Most Smart Home Developers Are Hobbyists, Not Professionals - <AUTHOR> http://arc.applause.com/2015/09/15/smart-homes-apps-developers/ <comment><AUTHOR> Take that, Bob Vila. Or Tim Allen. Or ... ummm, who is the current "it" guy in DIY home projects? Mike Rowe?</comment>


Which language should I learn? - <AUTHOR>

Right now I am student with very good knowledge of c/c++. But I do have a idea for building a web based application which language should I learn to start a startup? And where should I start learning that? <comment><USER2> Any of several languages would fit that bill, including PHP, Ruby, Python, Java, JavaScript, C# and others. As important as choosing a language is selecting a web framework and also learning how to build a web application.

For a novice, I would recommend the free "Engineering Software as a Service" course[1], which uses the Ruby language and the Rails framework to teach the fundamentals of web development.

[1] [https://www.edx.org/course/uc-berkeleyx/uc-berkeleyx- cs169-1...](https://www.edx.org/course/uc-berkeleyx/uc-berkeleyx- cs169-1x-engineering-1377)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, looking forward to it.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Can anyone list the startups using Haskell in production? - <AUTHOR>

Also, along with startups, are there any exclusive haskell shops, or companies dependent on haskell for infrastructure? <comment><USER2> There's no comprehensive list, you could ask around at Cafe, consulting firms (Galois, Well Typed, FPcomplete), or meetups/user groups.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/x8qnh/do_you_use_ha...](http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/x8qnh/do_you_use_haskell_in_business_what_do_you_use_it/)

[http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=haskell+hir...](http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=haskell+hiring&sortby=create_ts+desc)

<http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry>

<http://cufp.org/conference/schedule>

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks....

Btw, do you use haskell as your primary language?</comment></comment>


Love and Loss on Mount Jefferson - <AUTHOR> http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2016/01/17/love-and-loss-mount-jefferson/78367928/ <comment><USER2> I've climbed that route in late summer and it was the closest I've ever felt to death while climbing. We didn't have the right gear or skills and shouldn't have been there. I remember throwing myself on to the ridge at the top of the glacier mentally exhausted from so much unroped climbing. I didn't tie into a rope for over a year after that.

My thoughts are with the families. When I read this it hit really close to home.

</comment><comment><USER3> Seems to be very broken.</comment>


What Deep Breathing Does to the Body - <AUTHOR> https://www.thecut.com/2018/12/what-deep-breathing-does-to-your-body.html <comment><USER2> I've found box breathing to be helpful: [https://ritualize.com/box-breathing- military-secret/](https://ritualize.com/box-breathing-military-secret/)

<comment><USER3> Gave this a try a few times over the last 24 hrs. Interesting way to control thought process and definitely takes a little more focus than just yoga style breathing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I was gifted a Fitbit over the holidays and have been using it, essentially, to make myself get up and do household chores once an hour, 9-6, and to monitor my sleep schedule. It's led me to do more cardio and dramatically shift my sleep, and I noticed that I've started to wake up while deep breathing. So I guess there is some kind of general activity level thing going on that governs how you breathe, too.

</comment><comment><USER5> Shameless self-promotion:

For those who are curious about monitoring breathing patterns: [https://www.aidlab.com](https://www.aidlab.com) (a chest strap with a respiration sensor)</comment>