PORTAL 'tor router' software provides what AnonyBox failed to deliver - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/grugq/portal

<comment><AUTHOR> As an update to the 'anonybox' scandal that befell Kickstarter and the web at large, PORTAL promises to deliver at least the software part of the aforementioned product.

The dev's also mention some small chipped and off-the-shelf hardware that you can purchase on your own to run it. And get this - they don't claim to have made said hardware!</comment>


Tunnel TCP Through WebSockets (CLI Tool) - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/derhuerst/tcp-over-websockets#tcp-over-websockets <comment><USER2> First, as always hats off to the authors for publishing code and hacking on stuff for us all to use.

That said...You could just use corkscrew.

[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HTTP_tunneling](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HTTP_tunneling)

Corkscrew + SSH has been helping individuals escape restrictive corporate networks for years.

Pretty sure SSH for remote server on port 443 plus corkscrew offers more than this solution. (Socks proxy, etc. Very flexible. No need for DNS muckery you would need with this solutions example etc.)

<comment><USER3> Web browser JS can't use HTTP tunneling, unfortunately.

And it's all about the web browser, so...

<comment><AUTHOR> Is it? At least my client is for the command line.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I use since a year [https://ondevice.io](https://ondevice.io) which does ssh and others via websockets. I run it in all my devices an I'm very happy.

I was told by the developer that he uses it also to maintain hundreds of machines which don't have a public IP.

<comment><AUTHOR> well the idea is not to trust any company or service or even reveal my password/key to it. my use case was only escaping the restricted wifi, not managing machines.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is just one TCP connection though, not like a connection to the Internet which you can use to make various TCP connections.

You can pass PPP or SLIP via WebSockets and connect to the Internet that way. That's already used for connecting DOSBox running in a web browser to the Internet: [http://blog.vrcade.io/2017/03/setting-up-a-visp-using- pppow/](http://blog.vrcade.io/2017/03/setting-up-a-visp-using-pppow/)

</comment><comment><USER6> Before I ask my question, let me ask a "am i right or wrong."

WebSockets is a small layer on top of HTTP. And HTTP is a protocol on top of TCP. Right or wrong?

So then why would do this? To get TCP running over port 80 to get through a firewall? Why not just do TCP over port 80?

Like this project [https://github.com/jpillora/chisel](https://github.com/jpillora/chisel)

Edit: above project is also using websockets. okay, i think i understand why you would do this.

<comment><USER7> My understanding is it's because there's no API for dealing with raw sockets in JS. Or rather, there is, and it's called WebSockets. (Depending on how you want to look at it...)

<comment><USER8> Nope, there is actually a core API for dealing with raw sockets in NodeJS : [https://nodejs.org/api/net.html#net_class_net_socket](https://nodejs.org/api/net.html#net_class_net_socket)

Pretty straightforward to use, at that :

      const net = require('net');
      const client = new net.Socket();
      client.connect(port, host, function() {
        client.write("hello !");
      });

<comment><USER9> What this Node module offers is not raw sockets - let's not spread misinformation. ;)

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_socket](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_socket)

It does not even offer real access to a TCP socket, for example you can't set any options or flags in the TCP header of a packet. All that it provides is a way to open a socket and send / receive data. Very useful, but not a raw socket.

<comment><AUTHOR> yup, the core `socket` module in Node.js is meant for that.

<comment><USER9> Wrong again - the socket module does not give you raw sockets. If you were loo lazy to read the Wikipedia link I suggest you reconsider and educate yourself on the subject.

<comment><AUTHOR> you're right, i was wrong, there is no core `socket` module (anymore?). but you were not right either.

node core can only tell if a file is a socket, but not read from it, at least that's what the docs say.

for people interested in this: [https://github.com/santigimeno/node-unix- stream](https://github.com/santigimeno/node-unix-stream)

<comment><USER9> Wrong again. What I said was that there was no native module in Node that would give you _raw socket_ access. And there isn't. Period. The thing you linked to doesn't either. Jeez ... :(

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Do not mute errors. It is a bad practice.

[https://github.com/derhuerst/tcp-over- websockets/blob/master...](https://github.com/derhuerst/tcp-over- websockets/blob/master/server.js#L42-L44)

<comment><AUTHOR> i'm aware that it usually is a bad practice. but mostly it is about handling errors as a valid state of the application, whereas in this case i'm not interested in any connection errors whatsoever.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Instead of stuff inside websockets inside TLS, wouldn't it be more efficient to just do stuff inside TLS?

It's encrypted so firewalls shouldn't be able to tell the difference.

<comment><USER2> Corp firewalls often only ever see HTTP due to their CA certificate being installed on every machine and refusing "anonymous" HTTPS.

<comment><USER11> It doesn't mention whether the client verifies the TLS certificate. If not, that's bad. If it does, then this would have to run on a computer with the corporate CA trusted. It might not be a good idea to run this thing on a computer you don't own on such a restricted network, due to other monitoring on the computer itself.

<comment><USER2> For sure. Corp desktops often have their running programs surveyed. That said those more likely to run this program (engineers and IT folks) tend to run a lot of esoteric software compared to to the typical desktop. A weirdo or two just fall off the edges of monitoring.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Not related to the post, just a general question about WebSockets: can someone explain why long-polling was insufficient?

<comment><USER12> WebSockets are more efficient for rapid bi-directional communication.

But if this is not needed, then long-polling is perfectly sufficient for push delivery.

<comment><USER7> I see. What exactly is the step that is the biggest bottleneck in long polling that is being eliminated here?

<comment><USER12> Mainly avoiding the round trip needed for each payload sent by the server, as mentioned in one of the other replies. It also avoids this issue with data sent by the client.

Note that these things can also be solved with HTTP by using streaming, so WebSocket isn't strictly required as a solution. About the only difference between two single-directional HTTP streams and a WebSocket is that the WebSocket ensures data in both directions travels the same network path, which may make scaling or stateful sessions easier to build.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Setting a wss:// URL as homepage was a clever idea, but GitHub truncated it without making it clickable. :-\

</comment><comment><USER14> TCP over web sockets over TCP.

Sigh. Of course I develop network virtualization software so I'm just as guilty of it.

<comment><USER15> Actually TCP over web sockets [over TLS] over TCP.

How's your buffer bloat? — Fine, how's yours? — Great, thanks for asking!

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> How is this any better than the plethora of HTTPS VPNs which have been around for nearly two decades?

<comment><USER17> Not really better, just an alternative. Chisel is more than likely much faster anyway and does the same thing.

HTTPS VPNs require TLS, and some proxies don't let you use TLS, because you might tunnel with it. It's pretty easy to block most HTTP tunneling because they typically use the CONNECT method. Ones that simply do an HTTP handshake and then pass the socket to a tunneling program can be detected or simply terminated after the session has gone on for a while or transferred a certain number of bytes. BOSH connections are a little more reliable, and I don't know off the top of my head if any tunneling apps support chunked encoding/multipart/etc, but it's possible to implement a tunnel using only valid HTTP methods, but it would be inefficient. Basically, most tunnels can be defeated without negative impact to regular users because HTTP isn't supposed to be used that way.

In comes WebSockets. Since it's a part of the modern web, and disabling them would negatively affect user experiences on the web, you can abuse them to tunnel random crap and proxies can't really do anything about it. The protocol even allows for obfuscation to make it difficult to see what's going over the socket (though it was intended to prevent cache poisoning attacks).

So in theory, if you can reach a target HTTP server, WebSockets may be the most reliable method to tunnel a connection over HTTP. The fact that it also supports multiple streams may make it faster than alternatives. And the fact that you don't need to use TLS may make it even faster, assuming the app you're tunneling does its own encryption.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> My first thought when I saw this was "Hey! I made one of these". Turns out it goes the other way. From websocket to TCP. The thing I made was something where you connect to a socket(typically a unix domain socket in /tmp) and it connects to a web page via websockets.

</comment><comment><USER19> I see some potential to work around corporate firewalls.

<comment><USER20> If you had made this comment to the introduction of HTTP itself, I would today be hailing you as a visionary

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Woohoo! Someone built TCP

built on WebSockets

built on HTTP

built on TCP

This is like where newborn babies and the elderly have a lot in common.

<comment><USER22> WebSockets aren't built on top of HTTP. The initial handshake resembles that of HTTP, but once the connection is upgraded, all compatibility is lost.

In other words, WebSockets is a TCP protocol that mimicks HTTP during the handshake in order to be left alone by proxies and whatnot.

<comment><USER17> (edit) WebSockets isn't built on top of HTTP, but it is effectively an extension of HTTP. Not officially of course - then they would have had to get people to agree to an extension, so instead they called it a new protocol. But basically it's an HTTP request that turns into an obfuscated socket.

<comment><USER23> When WebSockets is negotiated on an HTTP connection, it ceases to be an HTTP connection; there is no way back to HTTP without closing the connection. It's kind of like when you start ppp, slip, or slirp on a shell you dialed into -- it's no longer a shell with a virtual terminal, it's changed into an internet connection, and you (usually) can't go back without dropping carrier and reconnecting.

<comment><USER17> There is really no such thing as an HTTP connection. There are request- response transactions, and these can happen without needing to break down the stateful connection they're transmitted over.

 _Ahem:_ [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_tunnel#HTTP_CONNECT_tunne...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_tunnel#HTTP_CONNECT_tunneling)

      In this mechanism, the client asks an HTTP Proxy server to forward the TCP
      connection to the desired destination. The server then proceeds to make
      the connection on behalf of the client. Once the connection has been established
      by the server, the Proxy server continues to proxy the TCP stream to and from the
      client. Note that only the initial connection request is HTTP - after that,
      the server simply proxies the established TCP connection.

Both HTTP CONNECT and WS are designed to work over http proxies, both are designed to tunnel arbitrary application data, both use http to initiate a connection, both use http application ports for these connections, and neither of them return to http request-responses once they're set up.

But somehow, WS is a separate protocol and stops being http, while HTTP CONNECT is just an HTTP extension and becomes some other application proxied over http.

I guess WS is just special.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


The Tor Project's new Android app for anonymous browsing is here - sahin-boydas https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/09/07/tor-project-launches-tor-browser-alpha-android/ <comment> sahin-boydas Additional links:

[https://thenextweb.com/apps/2018/09/10/the-tor-projects- new-...](https://thenextweb.com/apps/2018/09/10/the-tor-projects-new-android- app-for-anonymous-browsing-is-here/)</comment>


Longtime VC Michael Goguen hit with explosive lawsuit - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/11/longtime-vc-michael-goguen-was-just-hit-with-an-explosive-lawsuit/?ncid=rss <comment><USER2> Here is the full official complaint. Warning, it is very textually graphic.

[http://www.scribd.com/doc/304104968/Goguen-Baptiste-San- Mate...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/304104968/Goguen-Baptiste-San-Mateo- Court#scribd)

<comment><USER3> Link to original PDF: [http://openaccess1.sanmateocourt.org/getpdf/pdftemp/20160312...](http://openaccess1.sanmateocourt.org/getpdf/pdftemp/2016031215474009627/A-0001312719-1.pdf)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Human sex trafficking over a period of over a decade? Holy shit, yes, that is a very explosive lawsuit. I thought the headline was overstating things but if anything it's the opposite. No wonder he was fired within the day.

<comment><USER5> She's not accusing him of sex trafficking, she didn't meet him until she was already in the USA:

 _she is described as a "victim of human trafficking since she was 15." It says that she was "brought to America in 2001," "sold as a dancer to a strip club," and that shortly after her arrival, she met Goguen at a Texas strip club and was soon submitting to his "constant sexual abuse" and "relying on his promise that he would help her break free of the human traffickers who held her in perpetual debt."_

<comment><USER4> He was aware of and took advantage of human sex trafficking. I never said that he brought her into the country himself. But he acted to perpetuate the system, which isn't much better.

<comment><USER6> The lawsuit alleges he did these things. They shouldn't be stated as facts at this point.

<comment><USER7> It also seems to "allege" that he already paid $10M. That would be an odd thing to falsely claim, no?

<comment><USER8> He is claiming he was being extorted.

<comment><USER9> Innocent people usually don't pay millions in extortion money though

<comment><USER10> This is false.

Someone might pay millions of dollars to avoid making a spectacle that refocuses their efforts on something they are not interested in dealing with.

"You wouldn't want your wife and business partners to find out that you have a girlfriend, would you?"

<comment><USER9> I don't know how it could be false when I said "usually" (and thus I don't particularly appreciate the downvote). I'd like to see a list of known cases where someone paid $40 million to hide an affair and had nothing illegal to hide. I suspect it is quite short.

If she was under the age of consent, then he either didn't sleep with her and thus had no reason to pay any money or he did and he broke the law. Right? At that point, he wouldn't have only been paying to hide it from his wife and Sequoia but also the government and hence wouldn't be innocent.

<comment><USER10> I don't know how to respond to such a comment, why say anything if you can just weasel out of it?

You're saying he did something illegal. OK.

As someone who frequents HN, you are no doubt aware that people "settle" without going to trial many times. Perhaps he did the math and figured it wasn't worth his time.

See this for what it is: a divorce, without a legal marriage. She's pissed, he's just trying to move on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> Michael's response:

[https://t.co/kZiaYd076U](https://t.co/kZiaYd076U)

<comment><USER11> Michael's supportive friends are a bit much.

"You go Mike! I hate extortionist. You gave her $10M and she wanted more, LOL ... wtf ?!? and she can leave any time. Karma will bite her."

I don't know what it's like to be rich and powerful but I can't imagine an innocent person paying $10 mil in hush money. Though asking for 30 more might look bad in front of a jury.

<comment><USER12> a potential theory is he paid her the money to not tell his wife/kids who knew nothing of the affair, obviously extremely ill advised but plausible

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Michael Goguen appears to be on Twitter attacking Sequoia: [https://twitter.com/negars](https://twitter.com/negars)

It's not clear that he realizes this account can be traced to him, however.

<comment><USER14> How do you know it's him?

<comment><USER15> The earliest tweets on the account send messages to Amanda Goguen

<comment><USER16> For reference, since whoever appears to own the account has deleted the old tweets (which are a bit odd):

[http://cloud.harryh.com/0x111B1K2c0p](http://cloud.harryh.com/0x111B1K2c0p) [http://cloud.harryh.com/2d331L3L080E](http://cloud.harryh.com/2d331L3L080E)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Crazy stuff, indeed. Scumbags at every level of society.

</comment><comment><USER18> Well she got 10 mil out of it. So either way, nothing for me to be concerned with, justice will be done. This is simply a money matter.

</comment><comment><USER19> Curiously, as of a few minutes ago, this thread has been no longer visible on main HN page -- despite its high ranking, and obvious relevance to the HN community.

<comment><USER20> It was flagged by users. That's why most items that drop in rank drop in rank.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Smells fishy - 13 year ongoing abuse? In the States where one can just walk to the police freely? After paying $10M out of $40M extortion to her? Stripper with only one sexual partner? Red lights everywhere...

How is it possible to terminate a guy in the US with unproven allegations? Guilty by default? I am not saying he isn't, but was there a due process already?

<comment><USER4> Do you really not understand how human trafficking and slavery works? Getting out of that situation is not nearly as easy as "just going to the police". There's lots of books on the subject you can read to learn more.

> How is it possible to terminate a guy in the US with unproven allegations?

At-will employment. Anyone can be fired at any time for any reason. Innocent until proven guilty applies to the legal system, not to employment.

<comment><USER22> For the most part, sex trafficking doesn't seem to work - it's one of those things that exists more in the media than reality. There's a huge activism industry and massive amounts of police work around it, but when you dig into the details there's just nothing behind it all. Statistics fall apart - supposed US government stats are just them reporting that the press said something, which was a quote from some politician's speech with no apparent basis, and so on. High-profile stories with films and activist organisations around them like Somali Mam are verifiable lies. Busts actually just arrest the women who are having sex for money. Time and time again, there's just nothing actually there.

Honestly, it's probably just not viable. Too high on the police priority list and involves the victims interacting with too many people not in on the operation. Normal labour trafficking is so much safer

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Can we please stop submitting and upvoting things like this. There is literally zero value in articles like this. These are no better than national inquirer articles and should just be banned wholesale.

I've already flagged. If a few more people flag it it will drop off the front page.

<comment><USER24> I strongly disagree. There is always value in policing the powerful.

If we're going to celebrate the wins (and we should), we have to soberly examine both the losses and the externalities. If these accusations are true, it is our industry that gave him the wealth to cause this kind of harm.

<comment><USER23> Are you going to police the entire industry from your keyboard? Everything laid out in the article is already being handled by the judicial system. Sideline gawking is not adding anything.

I agree the VC system and the start-up ecosystem in general should be more decentralized and sustainable but that is beside the point. Sensationalized articles like this that only work because of people's morbid curiosity are hardly the way to galvanize such change.

<comment><USER25> they add opprobrium</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What was that programming language based on creating new grammar rules? - <AUTHOR>

A programming language was submitted to HN a while ago. I remember that the only thing you could do was to create grammar rules.<p>Does anyone remember what this language was? Or, if you created it, could you speak up? :) <comment><USER2> I've seen a few of these recently...

My favorite, OMeta is a pattern/grammar-oriented language (and one of the most interesting papers I read last year). This comes from Alessandro Warth at VPRI, where Alan Kay and others are doing some really great research: <http://tinlizzie.org/ometa/>

there's the Bondi language and its "pattern calculus": <http://lambda-the- ultimate.org/node/3695>

and the one that's most like you describe is π (Pi): <http://www.pi- programming.org/What.html>

<comment><AUTHOR> Those sound pretty cool. I'll look into them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I think you might be looking for the Pi programming language: <http://www.pi- programming.org/What.html>

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, that's it! Thank you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Prolog? <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1023192> was recently posted. You create relations between terms with clauses and query them to create programs in Prolog.

Though, I'd be (happily) surprised if Alain Colmerauer read HN.

<comment><AUTHOR> No, it wasn't Prolog. It was relatively new and unknown.

It wasn't a logic language; you actually created new syntax for the language, with BNF rules.</comment></comment>


Android SDK supporting Java 7 (lang)? - <AUTHOR> http://tools.android.com/recent/androidstudio032released

<comment><USER2> No, the JDK.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes! It is indeed supporting the Java 7 features.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Spend time on increasing conversion rate or increasing site visitors? - <AUTHOR>

I recently built a Website Hosting Provider website that converts approximately 5% of unique visitors. I know I need 400,000 visitors at this rate to hit my income goal - should I focus on getting more hits or high conversions? <comment><USER2> From my experience 5% is generally (depending on service obviously) a pretty good conversion. The real question comes down to ROI though I guess. How much do you need to spend to increase conversion and how much revenue will that generate? Likewise how much would it cost you to drive more traffic? This ROI will change over time. Sounds like (albeit with limited info to go on) that it might be cheaper for you to drive traffic at the moment but as your traffic gets higher, and keywords you need become more expensive then they focus may very well shift.

<comment><AUTHOR> Saved your answer - Thanks for your input! I thought 5% was decent myself. I like your ROI suggestion. Any recommendation on where to start? PPC to drive traffic looks like a scary way to burn capital right now. You think its my best option?

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> You should increase both if you have low traffic and low conversion. But once you get to a certain point, focus more on conversion. Increasing visitor count doesn't necessarily mean the ratio of sign up will stay the same. Focus on increasing the number that matters.

<comment><AUTHOR> Makes sense. I guess I'll focus on more traffic for now to see if that 5% is something I can hold. Thanks for your input!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> i guess that depends on your current traffic. 5% sounds quite good to me, but it depends on absolute numbers. if you have 1.000 unique visitors a month you propably should focus on getting more traffic. on the other hand if you have 100.000 uniques a month a/b split testing would be a great way to increase sales.

hope that helps, martin

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks Martin! I will focus on getting more traffic for now, I think. More than 100 so maybe its not too soon for a/b split testing. Thanks for your input.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Instagram for your terminal - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/justinmakaila/Instagram-terminal

<comment><USER2> Isn't including your own client and secret API keys not a good idea?

</comment><comment><USER3> I see it has a jpg to ASCII mode, but doesn't tell you it's a dependency you need to install</comment>


AppSumo.com not honoring lifetime deal and deleting reactions in Facebook group - <AUTHOR> here is full context - https://imgur.com/a/aP9ZZ
I am interested if people here think this is okay or not.
In short, they sold lifetime license for their own product (KingSumo) that functioned as Wordpress plugin and recently remade it into a SaaS. We were informed on email to give new version of KingSumo a try. I couldn't login and was then informed I have to pay for it because it is separate from the wordpress version that I paid for.
I posted about it in their facebook group, which caused uproar from all buyers, but eventually they shut it down and any new post I make gets deleted immediately.
What do you think of this? Is it too much to expect the $49 or $149 licenses to apply to $8/mo new version?
Someone else wrote this: (which feels to me like it makes sense) "Now, we have invested in a plugin, they took our money and converted it into a SaaS model. That does not feel ok. The plans for this must have been known 3 months ago, when you sold the plugin version. It simply makes the lifetime deal from last November feels like a type of crowdfunding to get funds for the new version…" <comment><USER2> As bad a taste as it might leave, I'm not sure there's a leg to stand on here. You can still use the product you bought in the form you bought it (as I understand it), under the license you bought it, and you'll still get access to "lifetime updates" included. Granted, there might not be any futures updates to be eligible for as part of that, but unless you had an SLA on a roadmap, seems likely there's no real recourse here?

Business-wise, having a sale on something you're going to deprioritise/eventually sunset passes my smell-check, though there's a slight whiff with the leading point around "lifetime" (given that the lifetime seems to be, ahem, pretty short...).

</comment><comment><USER3> Sounds like feigned outrage to me; you're conflating a software product (WP plugin in this case) w/ an ongoing SaaS product -- I don't see how you could expect one to honoured by the other.

Are you still able to use the Plugin? Or are your forced to use the SaaS product?

> so you can continue using the Wordpress version... and we're going to keep > support it

Yep, you still have your WP Plugin w/ "Lifetime Support", don't see a problem, sorry.

<comment><AUTHOR> The SaaS is not ongoing, it was released 2 days ago. And in November they sold us the only existing version, the wordpress version knowing they will soon release the better SaaS version.

This what their FAQ on website originally said about the Wordpress use: (they changed it recently)

"However keep in mind we're focusing the most resources on our new version going forward."

<comment><USER3> Tbh I can't see what is so wrong about this.

> [https://kingsumo.com/pricing](https://kingsumo.com/pricing)

It looks like they are offering an going SaaS version that they host for you, and a self-hosted WP version that you can install yourself for a fixed one- time price.

> ... the $49 or $149 licenses to apply to $8/mo new version?

The prices for self-hosted now look a lot more than those (early- bird/introductory?) prices you guys paid.

Sorry if you feel wronged, but I think you need to understand that this is a pretty common pricing structure, i.e self vs hosted pricing.

<comment><AUTHOR> The pricing page you're looking at now was changed today or so. You would be totally right, if we knew about this before today.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> To clarify... AppSumo sold people a WordPress plugin for $49 for one site or $149 for unlimited WordPress sites on Black Friday which offers unlimited giveaways and mailing list integration. AppSumo still offers the standalone WordPress plugin but has also launched a SaaS app that integrates with WordPress as well as other systems. This SaaS app is offered for $0/mo for unlimited giveaways and mailing list integration. They also offer a pro version for $8/mo which adds in the ability to custom brand your offers. This ability to custom brand was not a part of the product you purchased on Black Friday. The publisher is giving one year of access ($96) to this new pro offering to people who had purchased the WordPress plugin.

I'm unclear what the issue is. If you'd like to use the current plugin on WordPress because you like the integration, you can do so. If you'd like to use the new SaaS product on WordPress or any other site, you can do so for free. If you'd like to custom brand, a new offering from this publisher, you get a year of it for free and you can pay to do so after that. Were you expecting the publisher to give you their new offering with a new feature you weren't promised and didn't pay for for free forever?

<comment><AUTHOR> yes,

same as with every other deal on AppSumo ... I wasn't promised Zapier integration from Mailshake, but have it ... I wasn't promised image templates from Missinglettr, but have them .... etc. this is how AppSumo deals just are ... because they promise lifetime licence

When you go to McDonalds anywhere in the world, you expect a similar cheeseburger because of the brand/platform ... when you get used to the same cheeseburgers and then suddenly you get something awful ... you would be surprised too .. and outraged at McDonalds

Did you even look at the facebook thread in the link? There are now dozens of other disappointed people, you can't have that unless you set a wrong expectation. There are countless other AppSumo lifetime deals that don't have any problems like this, because they do upgrade us on features as expected. If you can't deliver on it, then don't sell it right?

<comment><USER5> No offense, but you are a great example for the rule that giving people privileges for free is a bad idea because they will take them for granted and be upset when you no longer give them those privileges for free.

If you go to a take-away and always get extra napkins for free, you feel entitled to those extra napkins for free, so when they no longer do that you feel like you've been wronged although the extra napkins were never part of what you paid for.

AppSumo didn't take anything from you. They just didn't go above and beyond their duty this time for whatever reason and now you feel like you've been cheated because you justified the expense for yourself based on the expectation that they'd do it again.

<comment><AUTHOR> "AppSumo didn't take anything from you. They just didn't go above and beyond their duty this time for whatever reason and now you feel like you've been cheated because you justified the expense for yourself based on the expectation that they'd do it again."

well yes, although not super precise ... the "above and beyond" tends to be specified as free updates for life ... it's just that it's not exactly specified as what that means, since nobody is a fortune teller and the product owners don't even know themselves what feature they will add three years later ... but I guarantee you, that the moment when all appsumo deals stop promising future updates ... half of the people will stop buying ... this is not a stolen napkin, not something extra ... this is an important feature of the appsumo deals ... we buy those deals ... and many (if not most) of us don't even use the products much, knowing we can use them 3 years later when we need them and they will be up to date ... in the fb thread, none of us have even used KingSumo yet .. it would be pointless to stack up on apps that won't work as best as they can later

<comment><USER5> > in the fb thread, none of us have even used KingSumo yet

So you're complaining about something you bought that you don't even have any intention of using right now?

> knowing we can use them 3 years later when we need them and they will be up > to date

Nothing on that site says it won't be maintained for 3 years, just that it likely won't get any new features (unless they port them over from the new SaaS).

> it would be pointless to stack up on apps

So you've been bargain hunting, hoping to snipe great plugins for cheap early on so you won't have to pay the full price when you need them later (or when they get features that make them actually useful to you). Sounds like we've at least found the reason why AppSumo doesn't consider the "pay once" model sustainable anymore and is moving to a SaaS model instead.

It costs money to develop these plugins. You paid a fraction of the regular price. You got more than your money's worth already. You just didn't luck out and pay for something that'll turn out to be incredibly useful to you later on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> IMHO, there are issues on both sides.

Using words like "lifetime deals" entice customers but also sets expectations which might be hard to maintain. Especially when when companies they oversold their promises and the generated fees might not be enough to hire devs and keep the product running. Personally, I think lifetime should at least include 5 years of service, irrespective of version changes.

From the looks of it, the lifetime plugin sold very well and Appsumo realized later that web app and subscription model are a much better fit. So, I doubt they knew 3 months ago that they might end up doing this.

On the flip side, companies do grandfather existing customers to newer and potentially expensive plans. So, if the webapp is better and faster then I think asking people for more money isn't wrong. If the wordpress plugin continues to work and is updated then it is an expected solution.

</comment><comment><USER7> This seems like a branding vs product issue.

Kingsumo is the brand and the products are 1) a SaaS, 2) a wordpress plugin.

From their FAQ ([https://kingsumo.com/faq](https://kingsumo.com/faq))

> I use the WordPress version. Why isn't my login working for the web app?

> If you already have the WordPress plugin, you'll need to register again. > This new web app version is different than the WordPress plugin version. > We'll continue to support both, but since they're two separate products you > can register for each.

</comment><comment><USER5> You got what you saw: unlimited use of the WordPress plugin. I don't even see mentions of any guarantees about updates -- but as long as they maintain the plugin for say 3-5 years or so I think the "lifetime" claim is perfectly valid.

The SaaS app is an entirely different product, as evidenced by the fact you're saying it even looks different. It also has a different business model.

If you buy a finished product you don't normally expect new features to be added if it's not on a subscription model. If it's explicitly "early access" or "beta" software you might reasonably expect it to be polished and maybe get whatever features it is currently missing (if they have been advertised or are obviously necessary for it to fulfill its advertised purpose) but a finished product is a finished product.

My understanding of a plugin being sold with a "lifetime license" would be that I get any updates to that plugin for free but that that won't include new "major" versions. Similar to how if I paid for MS Office 1997 I wouldn't expect that to mean I also get a free "upgrade" to MS Office 2000.

If you saw enough value in the plugin to justify the purchase and keep it past the 60 day no-questions-asked money back guarantee, there's frankly no reason to be upset unless they stop providing security updates or no longer maintain the plugin for compatibility with newer WP versions.

Would you be equally upset if they never released the SaaS version but still stopped adding features to the plugin (while still offering security and compatibility updates)? If not, what difference does it make they now also offer a SaaS product?

You bought a software product and an implicit guarantee of keeping that software product in a working condition. You didn't buy a team of developers continuously working on improving that product and adding new features.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interestingly enough:

[https://appsumo.com/kingsumo1-black- friday-2016-offer/](https://appsumo.com/kingsumo1-black-friday-2016-offer/) \- the 2016 sale says "free updates for life"

[https://appsumo.com/black-friday-kingsumo- personal-2017/](https://appsumo.com/black-friday-kingsumo-personal-2017/) \- the 2017 black friday sale suddenly does not have that (seem like here they already knew they will sell SaaS soon, but this is rare on appsumo to not promise updates for life, most probably overlooked this)

All AppSumo lifetime deals include all future upgrades (unless they clearly specify its 1 year licence or so), this is the general expectation, and that's the point of it.

Many deals are kinda broken and unusable at the point of their sale, but people will buy they in hope they will become great in future. Yes its kinda like beta versions.

This is happening time and time again ... many AppSumo deals changed dramatically and the lifetime deals are still honored, some even change their pricing models completely, but in some shape or form, the lifetime deals are still honored. It's basically early funding and exposure (more importantly).

When I bought Mailshake it was pretty basic, but damn, they still keep adding features. They could have done the same and say, hey, if you want the new Zapier integration, you gotta pay for it, but they dont do that, because they set certain exepcation with lifetime licence.

The point is that this didn't go as expected.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> What was the lifetime license for? Updates? If so, are they still updating the plugin? If it's still being updated, and they didn't just abandon it altogether a few months after you bought a lifetime subscription, it seems to me that you got what you expected and what they told you you were getting.

<comment><AUTHOR> Its the first picture "Unlimited giveaways / No subscription fees"

In their FAQ they said this: "keep in mind we're focusing the most resources on our new version going forward." but changed it since and claim they will update it ... but look as those products separately ... they are like night and day ... the wordpress version has outdated design and only the new version looks good

<comment><USER5> You bought the "outdated design" three months ago so presumably it was good enough then. I don't see why you think you're owed a flashy new design unless they explicitly teased the new design back then without revealing it was for the SaaS app.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I do not see a problem. The plugin still works. I do not fault them for deleting your posts as they are factually incorrect and only spread your invalid interpretation of the situation.

</comment><comment><USER10> Depending - you might be able to take them to small claims court. Given the small value, they likely wont fight it.

You'd have to come with the terms of service though.

Given the value, it'll be a huge headache for them to fight it. They'll likely just convert you all over. If not, they'll have to pay damages, which would be awful for them (if there's a few thousand people).

</comment><comment><USER11> if ($haz_sumo ~* "/sumo-plugin/") {set $happy "1";}

if ($sumo_makes_more_than_it_costs ~* "/making-$$$/") {set $happy "${happy}1";}

if ($happy = "11") {set $no_problem "true";}

</comment><comment><USER12> You are screwed!</comment>


Open-Source 3D Graphics Design: Where to Begin - <AUTHOR> http://media.bemyapp.com/guide-open-source-3d-graphics-design/?utm_source=bma&utm_medium=ycombin&utm_content=&utm_campaign=media <comment><USER4> >If you're sensing we don't recommend Gimp very highly, we don't. Gimp's downside is difficult to discuss tactfully. Gimp suffers from forever living in the shadow of Photoshop. Gimp's development is also closely tied to both Richard Stallman's GNU values and the GTK+ widget toolkit. For the final time, your humble author will quit trying to rewrite this paragraph to explain what's wrong with Gimp, and just scream "POLITICS!" and then run away. You figure it out.

Heh. Whenever you ask someone who doesn't work with image editors _professionally_ (that doesn't mean "use it quite often", it means, having real-world deadlines depend on productivity), they'll point out how many "features" Gimp shares with Photoshop. But features don't mean shit. The interface is a bulky mess. Tons of "little" things don't quite work as expected. And then, when it comes to the truly heavy-weight features, of course Gimp doesn't compare.

Out of curiosity, I tried installing Gimp to see how much has changed (for the better?) since I last checked it out. The tool interface doesn't quite fit into its window by default so you have a tiny little scrollbar at the bottom that you have to scroll to see the full text. I resized it. After popping out a submenu, it once again didn't fit.

Free/open software projects are so idealistic, I kinda want to support it. But it's so rare that anybody in these communities gets interface design. It's not unheard of (Firefox is a positive example in my book) but it's rare. Photoshop's main advantage is it's clean interface: [http://f64academy.com/wp- content/uploads/2013/06/The-Interfa...](http://f64academy.com/wp- content/uploads/2013/06/The-Interface.jpg)

<comment><USER5> >> It's not unheard of (Firefox is a positive example in my book)

Well, I'm not trying to say it's not without it's difficulties, but designing a browser's UI is not even just not in the same court as putting together something like Photoshop, it's not even the same sport.

Photoshop's UI/UX isn't...great, itself, I'd say.

It's far from intuitive. I use the example of Photoshop when explaining software that really learns better when you have someone over your shoulder teaching you.

I find people can't even 'get' photoshop until I sit them down, spend an hour and show them the basics of what's what. Then they can explore.

This is...technically still good UI/UX. If, for such a 'pro' level tool, after an hour or less of slight instruction, a user can find their way around, that's cool - but I think the 'de facto' standard of UI/UX these days is 'pick up and instantly understand how to use'. PS doesn't translate to that, and GIMP could fill that void, and even create a _better_ UI/UX, if they could find some dedicated, passionate people to do it.

Lord knows I wish I had the time.

<comment><USER6> The issue with Photoshop is that the core abstractions were built in 1990, for 1990 hardware and GUI conventions (based on ideas from software for 1970s graphics workstations). Over the years, additional features (sometimes gimmicky ones designed to demo well in 5 minutes) were piled on top of this core, but nothing was ever removed.

So the end result is sort of like a junk drawer filled with weird kitchen appliances. You have your grandma's beat-up cast iron skillet and rusty chef's knife with some chips in the handle; these need some maintenance but are still your most flexible workhorse tools. Then you have a melon baller and potato peeler you picked up at a flea market 2000, a popcorn maker that you bought for your college dorm in 2003, a waffle iron you found abandoned when you moved into a new apartment in 2007 that makes waffles shaped like zoo animals, and just last year you were given a fancy bluetooth sous vide stick as a wedding present but the bluetooth is kind of flaky and sometimes you need to re-enter the settings 4 or 5 times before it works.

After long experience, if you put everything together you can usually make whatever meal you want, but sometimes it takes some creative license with the recipes, and folks observing the process are mystified.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > Blender suffers from the habit of redesigning its entire interface every > other version, although it seems to have calmed down lately.

I think this is a bit misleading. The last major UI overhaul was in 2011 with blender 2.57. Since then the UI has changed very little. There have been many new features, sure, but I can't think of anything that would be exceptionally disorientating.

<comment><USER8> Recent versions of Blender have some _really_ annoying usability issues though. For example, various panes work differently depending on whether you're using the Blender Internal engine or the Cycles rendering engine. To a new user that means you can be following a tutorial and just not have a button or an option available because you haven't swapped to the right renderer - <USER2> would make sense to group renderer specific options in a way that make it clearer why you don't have something available.

<comment><USER9> Cycles is the way to go. The legacy engine is included as a default for reasons unknown. They honestly should make it an optional plugin to avoid confusion.

<comment><USER10> BI is still there because it has a wealth of functionality that Cycles doesn't yet, and because it's _really_ fast by comparison.

<comment><USER9> You get what you pay for. A lot of times the real-time OpenGL render looks better than the legacy render.

<comment><USER10> Yeah, I know. I've seem the side-by-sides.

But if you just need a fast render...

<comment><USER9> Cycles in preview mode isn't bad, you can tune it, and it's also possible to incrementally render in real-time. It looks all dithered, but it works quite well.

Its performance will only increase as GPU acceleration options improve. CPU performance is pretty much at a dead-end now, it's barely improved in the last half decade but to slam more and more cores into the chips, while GPU performance is increasing rapidly even now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I am missing the "3-D" in Inkscape, Gimp, and in the "honorable mentions" Paint.NET, Krita and IMagemagick ... Title: "A Guide To Open-Source 3D Graphics Design" Real title:"A LIST of open source graphical programs, some of which offer 3-D capabilities"

<comment><USER12> And not a single mention of any of the open source CAD tools available. Pointless article.

<comment><USER10> 3d ARTWORK. Not 3d work.

Do you know any artists who work in BRL-CAD?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Is anyone aware of a project that would be creating an open source alternative to SketchUp?

It's one of the two pieces of proprietary software (other being Mathematica) I rely on day-to-day life. I've even considered starting such a project, but it's near the end of my very long TODO list and I'm unlikely to have time to make it into something usable by the general public.

I really enjoy using Blender for my more art-oriented 3d needs, but I use SketchUp for more engineering oriented tasks like making drawings for my woodworking projects.

<comment><USER14> Would a full-blown CAD like SolveSpace be overkill for your uses?

[http://solvespace.com/](http://solvespace.com/)

discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12650290](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12650290)

<comment><USER13> Yes, it's probably overkill. What I'm after is the simplicity, even if it comes with limitations. My woodworking plans are pretty simple, and I have no need for fancy shapes or parametric stuff (I can't design more complex things than I can cut and chop with chisel and saw).

I wouldn't go designing fancy shapes for machining with SketchUp, but it's great for doing plans for simple projects.

<comment><USER15> Yep, Sketchup is excellent for planning out woodworking. It lets you figure out how everything will fit together in 3d space, and then you can just measure all your cuts in your finished design.

I really wish there was an open source alternative, or at least a linux one (Sketchup works ok in wine).

<comment><USER13> I've been _really_ considering starting a SketchUp -style 3d drawing program project. I have a background in 3d graphics and data structures/algorithms, so it would be right down my alley. But I don't have a lot of time on my hands :(

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> > _Gimp's development is also closely tied to both Richard Stallman's GNU > values and the GTK+ widget toolkit_

Gimp is indeed tied to the Gimp Toolkit+, but it has almost nothing to do with GNU anymore (and it never had much of anything to do with rms, so trying to smear Gimp by association is kind of mean). In fact, the Gimp developers themselves are quite hostile to the idea of doing things like changing the language to fit GNU recommendations. When I suggested that they shouldn't refer to it as "open source", they were the ones who shouted "POLITICS", refused, and ran away.

So, if you dislike its UI, don't blame GNU or rms. Probably shouldn't even blame GTK+. Just blame Gimp.

<comment><USER17> POLITICS seems like a good file to include along with README, LICENSE, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Recently, Disney/Pixar open source their USD and other tools: [https://github.com/PixarAnimationStudios/USD](https://github.com/PixarAnimationStudios/USD)

Very good demo Video from SigGraph 2016: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmH4KYcmHOo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmH4KYcmHOo)

Pixar Courses at Khan Academy: [https://www.khanacademy.org/partner- content/pixar](https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/pixar)

</comment><comment><USER19> I think the biggest thing missing on the list is a full featured compositing package. Fortunately there's Natron:

[https://natron.fr](https://natron.fr)

</comment><comment><USER20> All those "the Blender UI is awful" might be correct, I don't know because I don't have a comparison, apart of freecad, which has a possible even more awful UI. But what I love about those two projects is the UI mode where you can open a console which shows the API calls which are triggered if you make an UI action. This enables you to easily write some scripts making the UI obsolete. Of course you still have to understand the UI which sometimes needs a lot of googling.

<comment><USER21> It's true that typically "craftmanship" (I don't know a better word) software has a "terrible" UI in the sense that it doesn't follow typical (let alone platform) conventions, has bad discoverability, etc.

The issue is that these tools are used in day in and day out by a specific audience that is willing to make the investment to surpass the bad parts of the UX. It's not like a 3D artist can choose to skip using a 3d package - <USER3> in many cases the choice which one will also be dictated by external factors. Once the initial hurdles are surpassed, the UX of the tools _does_ work well for that flow. It has to, because that's the customer base.

Basically, these tools can afford to suck in the basic UX because they can't really "bounce" users there.

<comment><USER14> I think it is reasonable to judge the merits of professional software by its usability for trained/experienced professional users. And then suddenly many UIs that might superficially appear bad become very efficient tools.

I do believe that by that metric Blender UI is not that bad.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> No love for MyPaint? :( [https://github.com/mypaint/mypaint](https://github.com/mypaint/mypaint)

</comment><comment><USER23> Blender: reinventing their UI wheel, never making it round.

</comment><comment><USER24> Blender is simply bad UI-Design. It has nothing to do with a learning curve. I ve used alot of open source software, and the UI is usually the equivalent to english-aristocratic mansion, where every late addition is glued to the main house like a little bay window. And the first strange keyboard and control preferences (can we put a terminal in for that), will be forced down your throat. And i can handle this. Usually you find the configs and tailor them to something more adhering to common user-expectations. But then all the tutorials become useless for you. And that is where its over. I would really have loved this project to succeed. And in parts it has. There are awesome plugins for nearly everything. (Evolutionary Algos for Animation creation for example) But its completely disregard for UX-Standards have prevented it from making a industry-impact. A 3 year subscription to the max, is more expensive then it was 1990. [http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php?t-182943.html](http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php?t-182943.html) That's how a self-inflicted defeat looks like.

<comment><USER25> Blender is not actually that bad. 3D modeling is just a hard job. You have to make a set of 2D tools that are fundamentally conflicted with the 3D work you're trying to do. You cannot realistically use Maya or 3DS Max in a professional setting without also learning a raft of keyboard shortcuts and non-standard UI.

I keep hearing this "Blender doesn't adhere to common UX standards", but nobody ever says which particular parts are the non-standard UI elements. They don't use a standard UI toolkit, but that's not the same thing as not using standard UI design. I look at it right now and I see: tabbed documents, buttons, sliders, textboxes, accordion panels, all in relatively easily recognizable formats.

You have to right-click instead of left-click to select things. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that initial, small, tiny road bump encourages people to look up tutorials instead of trying to forge ahead without any training.

But there are some things that are just not going to be easy. There is a reason why materials are separate than textures. The modifiers interface has actually been drastically cleaned up and things like particle emitters greatly simplified within even the last year. Where it has "non-standard UI elements", it's because there is no standard UI element to do the job. The shader node editor is quite intuitive, if you ask me.

So again, if you're going to complain about a specific thing, please cite specifics.

So save your money and put the effort into Blender. 3DS Max is not $5000 better than Blender.

<comment><USER21> _Blender is not actually that bad._

No, Blender is not bad, it's terrible.

You need a tutorial video to understand how to close a pane, and even then it's hard. That has got nothing to do with 3D modeling being hard. It could've been a word processor and it would still be terrible.

And yes, window panes are very much a standardized UI part which has a completely non-standard interaction design in Blender. For no reason.

Edit: Before you downvote this, download Blender and try to close a pane. Just try it!

<comment><USER26> >It could've been a word processor and it would still be terrible.

Like vim or emacs?

>window panes are very much a standardized UI part which has a completely non- standard interaction design in Blender. For no reason.

It's called "tiled window management". Lots of people find it more comfortable to use than the classic overlapping windows.

<comment><USER27> > It's called "tiled window management". Lots of people find it more > comfortable to use than the classic overlapping windows.

True, but when speaking about "lots", we have to keep in mind that tiled window management for the general public died together with Windows 1.0. That probably puts the percentage of the public who's ever used tiled window management around 0.001% of the total PC using population :)

<comment><USER28> > True, but when speaking about "lots", we have to keep in mind that tiled > window management for the general public died together with Windows 1.0.

And came back with Windows 8 :-)

> That probably puts the percentage of the public who's ever used tiled window > management around 0.001% of the total PC using population :)

<comment><USER27> Well, the awesome success of Windows 8 kind of reinforces my point :-)

<comment><USER28> But the market share of Windows 8.1 is currently 8,40%.

[https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market- share...](https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market- share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0)

<comment><USER24> Defenders of open source, rally around the OS-outcast - for he who is condemned by the public, may he be horrible and atrocious as can be, is our brethren in spirit.

You know how bad it is, if Microsoft lowest-point is your high point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Trying to be constructive: How much work would it be to rip the current UI out of blender and replace it with one, that adheres to humanity's standards and defaults?</comment>


Exalting Data, Missing Meaning (2017) - <AUTHOR> https://blog.andymatuschak.org/post/159340765257/exalting-data-missing-meaning <comment><USER2> Excellent article.

 _Worse, it [data obsession] deprives us of truly meaningful insights that are available via philosophy, intuition, and stories, but not yet fully explicable through quantitative systems._

This is why the lack of scientific evidence is never sufficient to discredit a fact. If there are no scientific studies about something, it's OK to rely on intuition and stories, and act upon them, until sufficient data is gathered for scientific inquiry.

<comment><USER3> I agree with your overall point, and even the broad case in which we should not take data as superceding rational non-quantitative examination of the world. However,

>If there are no scientific studies about something, it's OK to rely on intuition and stories

This really depends on what the stakes are, and it doesn't tell us much about whose intuition or whose stories to believe. For example, I'd be pretty annoyed if I were thrown in jail for writing a pornographic story if the law were to decide that there isn't sufficient data (or the data isn't convincing to them) and so they go with the intuition that it'll cause some horrific outcome if someone were to read it. Similarly, there are some pretty strong philosophical arguments against the role of intuition overall, especially in our lawmaking and moral capacities.

We can stretch it further; most people have the intuition that there are meaningful moral facts. Yet, moral nihilism is a position often taken seriously in philosophy, even if only in certain contexts. Empirical data on the matter is merely informative at best. Should we make laws on the presumption that moral nihilism is true, or that it is false?

<comment><USER2> It didn't occur to me that someone would apply this to moral facts, but why not.

In your example, the role of intuition becomes problematic if laws were based on it. Except that such intuition won't turn into a law unless a majority of people adopt it, which _generally_ won't happen if it's not plausible enough. Although it could happen, and I agree with you that it could become dangereous, if reason and experts' opinions stop being highly valued by society.

> Should we make laws on the presumption that moral nihilism is true, or that > it is false?

How should I interpret the "Should" in this question, as "In order to be consistent, should we make laws...", or as a moral obligation :) ?

The underlying assumptions in your question are 1) that there should be a single principle based on which we make laws, which is not necessarily true, that's why we end up with all kinds of inconsistencies, 2) that lawmakers care about philosophy when making laws, which doesn't hold for me.

I'm not well versed in philosphy, so I'm arguing here from my basic understanding of things. Laws are practical. What would be the practical consequences if laws were made on the presumption that moral nihilism is true?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> The problem business faces when looking for a competitive advantage is that anything well understood ... is no advantage. Take double entry bookkeeping. Clear evidenced based link between good accounting and good results, so every business does it. There is basically no advantage gained over the competition from good accounting.

So companies are fighting over the scraps of advantage at the margins where there might, or might not, be an advantage in doing things a certain way. Trouble is very few people can actually evaluate evidence (everyone says they can, evidence is not many people are right). The situation quickly becomes absurd.

</comment><comment><USER5> Distilled: Meaning before metric, measure before method (2MBM) [https://www.agendashift.com/2mbm](https://www.agendashift.com/2mbm)</comment>


Mitsubishi Quiets Car Noise with Machine Learning - <AUTHOR> http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/human-factors/mitsubishi-quiets-car-noise-for-your-ohsoimportant-phone-calls/

<comment><USER2> Does it seem crazy to anyone else that a purely software noise reduction system is planned to be released in 3 years when it already seems to be working? Not like it is a safety critical system.

</comment><comment><USER3> And here i thought this would be something that benefits the general public by making cars _actually_ more quiet. Instead it's just a noise filter for phone calls in cars.

<comment><USER4> I was thinking the same application from the title but had the opposite reaction. Why would anyone bother investing in making cars quieter when the ground swell all pushing towards electric?

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Does this seem a bit overkill or a "just because we can" sort of thing? Noise- canceling microphones have been around for a _long_ time, and they work surprisingly well.

</comment><comment><USER6> I really though this would say: "Mitsubishi quits car noise by not selling cars anymore".</comment>


Mega Millions Odds: Are they ever in your favor? - <AUTHOR> http://www.circlemud.org/~jelson/megamillions/ <comment><USER2> There's a reason my Dad always called lotteries the "Math Tax".</comment>


Backup of the Human Race: 116 images NASA wants aliens to see - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAN1kt4SG9E <comment><USER2> Excellent:

        This video contains content from WMG
        and Warner Chappell, one or more of
        whom have blocked it in your country
        on copyright grounds.</comment>


How to make HTML disappear completely - <AUTHOR> https://medium.freecodecamp.com/how-to-disappear-completely-2f23ddb14835#.k5n3my8sh <comment><USER2> This is something to check</comment>


14 Year Old Vending Machine Mogul Rejected 30M Buyout - <AUTHOR> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/technology/recmed-taylor-rosenthal-techcrunch-disrupt/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_tech_pool <comment><USER2> Can anyone explain what prompted Six Flags to buy 100 of these, or what has everyone excited? First-aid vending machines aren't new, nor are these products that Six Flags doesn't currently sell. You can already buy some of this stuff at gift shops, and everything else is (and should be) handled by EMT on site.

Not saying this isn't a novel idea, just haven't wrapped my head around the business model that hasn't already been done before, so I feel like I'm missing something. Is it increased visibility in park leading to more sales? Ability to eliminate some EMT staff? Ability to charge people for supplies instead of giving them away?

<comment><USER3> They don't expect to lose more money on this than they'd have payed for the advertising this provides.</comment></comment>


US Welcome of Three Scientists Helped China Become a Global Tech Superpower - <AUTHOR> https://beta.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/2176252/now-locked-head-rivalry-us-once-helped-china-kick-start-its-science <comment><USER2> The recent rhetoric of fear of rise of China as a competitor are super interesting as an observer.

For most of post-world-war era, the US tried to make (sometimes bomb) countries into making them more like America. China did that. Then they were called copy cats. Now China makes more and better goods and services and America (at least the local fear mongerers) seem shocked, taken by surprise and adversarial.

Which begs the question, didn't America always want other countries to be like them?

Another interesting aspect of the rise of the "others":

For so many years, American higher education invited (and also sucked money) off of foreign students. For the large part, they stayed here and innovated and started companies and made America a tech powerhouse at the expense of the countries that raised those kids.

Then America started becoming more protectionist, which caused these budding young well-educated adults to go back to their own country with American education and American experience. What did the protectionists think these kids would do in their home countries? Twiddle thumbs? Of course they'll make competing products. They are skilled, educated and already such risk takers to go to a foreign land when they were young. The complete recipe for entrepreneurs and leaders.

Really really funny to observe. As a non-partisan observer, it almost seems like a high school bully scrambling to protect their turf while the nerdy kid built themselves up over the summer and is doing everything better.

It's funny and sad at the same time. I wonder if there's a phrase for this feeling.

</comment><comment><USER3> The ending paragraph is interesting:

"For Liu, China's rapid rise as a tech giant has not put his mind at ease. "Don't always say things like 'our country is amazing' or 'we are taking the lead'. Just work hard," he said, referring to state media propaganda that has since been toned down in light of the trade tensions. "We still need 30 years to catch up with the US.""</comment>


Show HN: Listen to the Internet with BingeWith - <AUTHOR> https://bingewith.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> We've been working on BingeWith, a platform to consolidate and listen to audio versions of our favorite content. You can browse different categories or authors to find something to listen to by clicking on the tags.

Some folks have asked to integrate with BingeWith by having the player on their site so we've also made plugins for popular blog authoring solutions like WordPress and Medium so folks can host the player on their own.

Please reach out at firstname.lastname@example.com if you have any questions.

</comment><comment><USER2> Very cool stuff from this brand - I'd highly recommend their offering. Voice is the next evolution of transformative content, and BingeWith is a major player making it happen.

</comment><comment><USER3> What TTS engine does it use?, the voice is really good compared to others i have used. Also the voice breaks when the speed is changed(on mobile).

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! We have a medley that we work with as well as our own engine. Thank you for the speed change on mobile. We're on it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The design is minimalist and the voice is great. I use it in my medium blogs. Great product.

</comment><comment><USER5> I use BingeWith on my blog and love that it makes my content more accessible!

</comment><comment><USER6> BingeWith is such a cool service!

</comment><comment><USER7> try BingeWith out!</comment>


7 Things You Need to Know About Building A Movement - <AUTHOR> http://ivanasendecka.com/2012/01/29/tribes/

<comment><USER2> Supercool shipment! True story folks! Nice to have you along for the ride Ivana

<comment><USER3> We only talk, what we walk, don't we?;-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Perfect engagement strategy Ivana!

<comment><USER3> Thank you, there! I hope some of it will be helpful to you as well.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: how do you pick a worthy developer from Odesk or other outsource site? - rush-tea

I have a project that I want to get done with, and it requires PHP and MySQL expert.  I post my project at odesk and others, of course I got responses.
Now because my background is not in CS (I work as a Product Manager and in big companies, I don't have to go through this process when I develop my products and ideas as I have engineering teams at my disposal. Also my tech background is in wireless industry, not web 2.0), how do I interview and select qualified and worthy developers to build my project? Most applicants are from India or Eastern Europe. I am in bay area.
Thank you for your response.
PS: if anyone here is interested in working on my project, please feel free to response here and I will contact you.  Thanks. <comment><AUTHOR> Look at services like Forrst or even through Hacker News rather than services like these. You could find a great developer but you'll find a lot more terrible developers in my experience.

</comment><comment><USER2> Good you need to follow the process

1\. Identify one very good guy 2\. Take help from him to get the team 3\. get their previous projects 4\. how mnay projects in git etc...</comment>


Interview with a startup selling umbrellas - <AUTHOR> http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/talking-to-the-umbrella-seller-fella-part-1/

<comment><USER2> For your convenience here are continuations of the interview. The last two answer comment questions.

[http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/talking- to-t...](http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/talking-to-the- umbrella-seller-fella-part-2/) [http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/the- umbrella...](http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/the-umbrella- seller-fella-answers-your-questions-part-one/) [http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/the- umbrella...](http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/the-umbrella- seller-fella-answers-your-questions-part-2/)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> And an update:

[http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/catching- up-...](http://internationalbs.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/catching-up-with-the- umbrella-seller-fella-part-1/)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for doing that Shib71... wasn't sure whether I should</comment>


Google Cloud Platform vs. Amazon Web Services - <AUTHOR> https://dev.to/bugfenderapp/google-cloud-platform-vs-amazon-web-services <comment><USER2> Great motivations behind migrating to GCP to take advantage cost, MySQL and privacy.

Why would not you chose other dev-friendly players like DigitalOcean, Exoscale? Are there rationale behind not adopting multi-cloud?

I would have suggested ([https://magic.cloudureka.com/#!/compare](https://magic.cloudureka.com/#!/compare)) to help you measure your ROI from AWS to GCP (and other cloud options), even before the migration.</comment>


CHiP smart oven bakes perfect cookies in under 10 minutes - <AUTHOR> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1503077171/chip-smart-cookie-ovenfresh-cookies-in-under-10-mi <comment> xkcd-sucks It's a great deal!

Cheapest "CHiP" cookies (12 months * 'classic'): $0.88/cookie

Premade Nestle chocolate chip cookie dough: $0.11/cookie

Frozen homemade cookie dough, ingredients cost fudged up x2: $0.08/cookie

But, the true cost of homemade dough is much higher: We're well-paid unicorn startup employees, so the value of our time brings up the cost to like $1.44 per cookie.

And buying premade cookie dough from Walmart lowers our earning potential inordinately, because it's trashy and trashy people don't get hired by unicorn startups.

Finally, the CHiP Oven won't become another useless kitchen appliance that takes up space, because with slight modifications we can also use it for making tortilla espanolas and reflowing PCBs.

<comment><USER2> Annie's organic pre-cut cookie dough for 12 chocolate chip cookies: $1.49 at Grocery Outlet!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> A standalone appliance that can only bake 4 cookies at a time. And they claim to be environmentally friendly. I am really failing to understand the use case.

<comment><USER4> If I could hazard a guess, I'd say it caters towards people who like the taste of fresh-baked cookies, without the hassle of having to prepare your own dough.

Plus, home baked cookies don't last for more than a couple days, so to make a big batch would be wasteful if you live with only one or two people.

Personally, I agree that buying a 4-cookie oven is a silly conceit, especially when you have have an oven in your own house. I might buy their dough, though. I'm fairly lazy and don't want to come up with a recipe...</comment></comment>


Windows 10 marks the end of 'pay once, use forever' software - <AUTHOR> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/31/rising_and_ongoing_cost_of_windows/

<comment><USER2> I have my finger hanging over the mouse button ready to click install Ubuntu. I'm not a cash cow waiting to be milked.

<comment><USER3> I will be switching to Ubuntu as well. I have encouraged my friends to do the same.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> What will Microsoft be doing a year from now in regards to pricing and services? This really requires some clarity, because so far Win10 is not looking good from a privacy perspective IMO. It's not easy to recommend an upgrade right now with so much unanswered questions regarding data usage and price roadmap. What is their strategy after the first year?

<comment><USER5> Pricing for Windows 10 has been announced, $110 for Home and $199 for Pro. You have 1 year to upgrade for free, then you have a license for Windows 10 forever for that machine and you'll be supported for the lifetime of that device (as defined by Microsoft). If you don't upgrade within that year then you'd have to pay for the upgrade.</comment></comment>


A Cheap 12-Core, 30-Watt Ubuntu Cluster - <AUTHOR> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTExNTM <comment><USER2> For comparison, you can now get < 35-watt Intel Ivy Bridge processors, with 2 or 4 physical cores. Would not be surprised to see them outperform on a performance / watt or performance / $ basis, especially if you're running OpenCL accelerated computations on the GPU.

[http://ark.intel.com/products/65703/Intel- Core-i5-3470T-Proc...](http://ark.intel.com/products/65703/Intel- Core-i5-3470T-Processor-\(3M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz\))

<http://ark.intel.com/products/65735>

[http://ark.intel.com/products/65714/Intel- Core-i7-3517U-Proc...](http://ark.intel.com/products/65714/Intel- Core-i7-3517U-Processor-\(4M-Cache-up-to-3_00-GHz\))

<comment><USER3> the wattage measured here is not just the processor, its also the entire boards.

Ive done some benchmarks testing Intel Atom processors Atom330's and D525's against Tegra3 processors. On average the Terga3 processors outperformed the Atoms 4x-8x in Flop/s per Watt.

Admittedly that is not the only important metric, but gives an initial performance comparison between ARM and x86 performance

<comment><USER4> That being said, the Atoms themselves are nor a good benchmark in performance / Watt. I'd rather be interested in a comparison vs. current gen. xeon or interlagos systems. Sounds silly, but ARM has been making progress and I could see them being used in the future as companions to GPUs in computing clusters. With current GPGPU computing models like OpenACC it does not really make sense to put 16 race horses (Interlagos) besides an ant colony (Fermi GPU), except if you head for high flexibility.

<comment><USER5> Well, I think Intel wants Atom to compete with ARM for that market, so it may be relevant.

There's also Nvidia's Project Denver, which will probably come out in 2014. It's based on the 64 bit ARMv8 architecture, it's a custom CPU made in collaboration with ARM, and I think they want to pair it with their next-gen GPU architecture Maxwell. It's intended for servers and supercomputers.

<comment><USER4> I've heard about that Nvidia project. I think they are on the right track. The only thing that's missing is enough programmers (und thus software) for this model. As an example (and I'm saying this as a layman in terms of databases) I think that DBMS might be able to profit a lot from the GPGPU based model. For high read traffic databases you could scale a system with n GPUs, based on how much "storage" the database needs (the storage being the GPU ram, continuously mirrored to harddisks when writes occur).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Ah, I like the general idea, but why bother with a cluster of ARM for 12 cores? You can get a 12 core AMD in one machine.

Or if you want really low power usage, there is this [http://www.tilera.com/sites/default/files/productbriefs/Tile...](http://www.tilera.com/sites/default/files/productbriefs/Tile- Gx%208036%20SB010-01.pdf) with 36 cores on one chip (of course that's not especially cheap).

This doesn't seem like a very useful example.

<comment><USER7> yeah this 12 core cluster costs about $2,000 for 12 Panda boards.

<comment><USER5> I may be wrong, but I think the PandBoards are not really meant to be put in servers (they are meant as development boards, right?), and they are significantly more expensive than if you'd buy a 12 core ARM cluster specifically meant to be used as a server.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I can't imagine that the 96 core cluster would be either power efficient or cost efficient compared to Intel offerings. Assuming 3 watts and $100 per core (which align fairly well to the figures presented in the article), 96 core cluster would draw nearly 300 watts and cost nearly $10000.

Contrast that to eg Intel E5-2650L[1]: 8 cores, 16 threads, 70 watts and $1200 price. Obviously the whole system cost would be much higher, but I find it hard to believe that you couldn't get/build two 2-socket systems with such CPU for $10000. The CPUs alone would draw 280 watts, which would put the whole system power consumption in the same ballpark as the ARM cluster.

Remaining question would be performance. ARM cluster would have 50% more (logical) cores, but I'd imagine that Intel would have far higher per-thread performance. And for lots of tasks the 100M Ethernet of the Beagleboard as an interconnect could become a bottleneck.

[1][http://ark.intel.com/products/64585/Intel-Xeon- Processor-E5-...](http://ark.intel.com/products/64585/Intel-Xeon- Processor-E5-2650L-\(20M-Cache-1_80-GHz-8_00-GTs-Intel-QPI\))

</comment><comment><USER9> Finally a Hackernews post that inspires poetry:

      Snoozeworthy mobos
      But wooden dish drying rack?
      Stroke of pure genius!

</comment><comment><USER10> Would be interesting to know what application it's actually going to be running? what task it's going to be doing?

<comment><USER11> It's for Phoronix to test new ARM-based software products, mainly benchmarking. The second paragraph:

 _This cluster will be used for delivering some interesting ARM Linux benchmarks, of course! It's also being used for Phoronix Test Suite purposes for creating more MPI/cluster benchmarks for some of the commercial/enterprise clients, coming up with more ARM Linux benchmarks in general, and this hardware is also going to be part of a much larger (~96+ ARM core cluster - details to be shared at a later time) cluster._

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I like the idea of independently replaceable boards, but the drying rack isn't the answer. It may be great for heat dissipation, but you'd be surprised how many dangers are present in an apparently empty room (dust, ceiling leaks, your hipster keychain, etc.).

<comment><USER13> Why isn't there a market (equal to the one for boards like these) for enclosures, "home racks" or something similar to house these things? Or is there a market but this guy just wanted to save a few quid?

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Wow, my employer sucks and is blocking Phoronix. Anyone want to summarize this until I can check it from home?

<comment><USER11> Six dual-core PandaBoard ES boards stuck in a wooden dish-drying rack :) One of these draws a max of 5-6 watts under heavy load, so the whole "rack" should stay around 30 watts during cluster benchmarking etc. It's not completely assembled yet so there are no real numbers. Total cost about $1500.

<comment><USER14> I was seriously considering trying something like this with either the Raspberry Pi or the APC <[http://apc.io/>](http://apc.io/>).

It looks like one PandaBoard can roughly match the CPU horsepower of four APC boards at a slightly lower price, so that's good to know. The Raspberry Pi might still beat out the PandaBoard in terms of purchase cost-to-Megahertz ratio. We'll see. :-)

<comment><USER15> Don't just look at MHz/$. The Raspberry Pi has a ARM v6 compatible core vs the PandaBoard which has a v7-A core, i.e., Raspberry Pi MHz < PandaBoard MHz.

<comment><USER9> Do you know of anyplace that quantifies the actual performance difference of the different ARM versions? Just want to see the general improvement jump over time

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Might be handy for a cheap Memcached/Redis cluster. I wonder if there are boards with the full 4gig of RAM? Probably 1 or 10 gig network would be better for that, though.

</comment><comment><USER17> 100 Mb Ethernet doesn't sound like much. How performant are these ARM processors compared to x86-64? Are they 32 or 64 bit? What's the type or RAM?</comment>


Big data: Oracle, Cloudera about to make it rain - <AUTHOR> http://www.itworld.com/it-managementstrategy/239851/big-data-oracle-cloudera-about-make-it-rain

<comment><USER2> Oracle, Cloudera PR Flaks: Your data is like a stripper, and we want to help you throw dollars at it to make it wiggle?

</comment><comment><USER3> Oracle already have a big data solution, its called Coherence. I wonder why they aren't using that?</comment>


If you only work on your malware on weekdays, you might be a CIA hacker - <AUTHOR> https://qz.com/954523/if-you-only-work-on-your-malware-on-weekdays-you-might-be-a-cia-hacker/ <comment><USER2> I've put some thought into similar deductions in the distant past. And measures to avoid them.

Still waiting for the day a leak is attributed to the French because of the length of lunch breaks inferred from timestamps.

<comment><USER3> How long is a typical French programmers lunch break?

<comment><USER4> 1.5-2hrs unless there is wine involved...

<comment><USER5> Can we avoid French bashing here? This is not reddit.

<comment><USER4> Lighten up? I'm not trying to abuse the French here, I've really observed this when working with several French teams!

I found it amusing, if you're offended then my apologies, it was written with a light heart and no intentional malice; and I gauged it by my not being offended by those who comment on observing the various stereotypes applied to my specific situation but alas my skin is thicker than others..

I don't think there is any value in using lunch length as any kind of meaningful metric, can we put the guns away?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> _Symantec had already concluded that Longhorn was a group based in North America. That was partly based on the American time zones they saw, but also on the finding that Longhorn primarily targeted devices in Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East—and seemed particularly averse to American computers._

Now the CIA is going to claim that for national security reasons, they're going to have to hack American computers too.

<comment><USER7> Humor aside, one wonders how much increased communication could facilitate common malware usage between the CIA, NSA, etc. If some common malware were developed and distributed agnostic to foreign or domestic targets, it could be a conduit for other, more targeted software to be deployed, and otherwise not appear, based on detection, to specifically target foreign or domestic machines.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The CIA's dos and donts specifically mention putting build timestamps into others time zones: [https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/03/the_cias_deve...](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/03/the_cias_develo.html)

<comment><USER9> Yes but domains are registered and C&C servers are activated, things that can be tracked on other ends like clients and public databases.

So what they really need to do is make a queue system for actions like that and have them execute randomly during weekends. Would require a lot more patience and long sightedness but I don't see any other way of masking it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> > "On one occasion a computer in the United States was compromised but, > following infection, an uninstaller was launched within hours, which may > indicate this victim was infected unintentionally," the blog post said.

A surprisingly refreshing feature.

</comment><comment><USER11> Great example of a headline that captures something really interesting about the story without lying or misleading readers.

<comment><USER12> It does mislead the reader, because this pattern is the case for most malware, and has been for over a decade. If you only work on it on weekdays, you are probably _not_ a CIA hacker.

<comment><USER11> I disagree. The headline clearly states that if you only work on weekdays you "might" be a CIA hacker, implicitly admitting that there are also non CIA hackers working on weekdays. What I found funny and interesting about this is that if I were working on malware and making exciting progress I definitely would not be able to resist working on the weekend. The idea that there is a government employee who is paid to create malware but sees it just a 9-5 thing that he doesn't care about when he clocks out is pretty funny to me.

<comment><USER13> I don't know this for a fact, but I assume people working on top secret CIA malware probably can't work from home. They'd have to go into the office and access the code from a secure computer.

<comment><USER11> I'm sure you're right. Which is why you only see activity on weekdays.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> If every government entity can fake/scrub/modify time zones, how are time zones are a "tell" at all?

Let's say the US uses French time zones and France uses US eastern time zones. You've discovered malware that for whatever reason has time stamps for US Eastern.

Is it really from the US or is it from France? How would you deduce such a fact? I posit it would be better to see who the malware is targeting: entities may be averse to targeting their own countries.

<comment><USER15> > Let's say the US uses French time zones

I know you're only using France as an example, but it's even more ridiculous when you consider that (mainland) France has one time zone (CE(S)T), which it shares with more than a dozen of other countries (central Europe + most of the western Europe + majority of Scandinavia + former Yugoslavia).

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> That's actually pretty funny.

Article mostly talks about the validation that security companies got from recent leaks, when before it could only be based on update and domain registration times.

Kind of makes the US look silly with that oversight. Though even if they did fix themselves, it's not like you could change behavior on the old stuff.

<comment><USER17> It also might be on purpose -- if you have a signature, then unsigned things aren't you, right?

I suspect it was largely accidental, though. Heck, there's been private entities I know who have ended up with tells that pinned them to timezones.

<comment><USER18> Easy to do with e.g. postings to forums, including those about bitcoin...

<comment><USER17> I've generally given up trying to conceal anything above what city I'm in.

There are just too many information leaks that can be used to track people back to regions, and I honestly don't care if people know I'm one of millions of people.

(Whoops, there goes another -- there's only 53 US metros above 1mil people and 34 above 2mil.)</comment></comment></comment></comment>