LLVM 3.8 Release Notes - <AUTHOR> http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html <comment><USER2> The most interesting parts of this release to me are OpenMP support by default, and the shrink-wrapping in the code generator.

Shrink-wrapping [1] moves the prologue/epilogue code that wraps functions in order to setup and tear down their stack frames into the parts of the function that actually need it: consider two control-flow paths, where one doesn't actually need stack space so we can avoid performing those unnecessary instructions.

[1] [http://perso.ensta- paristech.fr/~bmonsuez/Cours/B6-4/Article...](http://perso.ensta- paristech.fr/~bmonsuez/Cours/B6-4/Articles/papers19.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER3> See the LLVM release notes here: [http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html](http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html) and the Clang release notes here: [http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/tools/clang/docs/ReleaseNotes...](http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/tools/clang/docs/ReleaseNotes.html)

If you want to keep up with the latest LLVM developments, you might want to sign up for my LLVM Weekly newsletter [http://llvmweekly.org/](http://llvmweekly.org/)

<comment><USER4> Ok, we changed the URL to the release notes from [http://www.llvm.org/releases/download.html#3.8.0](http://www.llvm.org/releases/download.html#3.8.0).

<comment><AUTHOR> The original link linked to both llvm and clang release notes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I love LLVM/Clang but I wish there was a simple tar (or several) I could download and extract on Windows that gave me a full working environment. Finding information on what you need and where you need to put it sucks for someone who wants to just get up and running quickly.

<comment><USER6> You can download a nice installer from here: [http://llvm.org/releases/download.html](http://llvm.org/releases/download.html)

<comment><USER5> Yes but that installer doesn't actually install a fully working environment, you need the standard library from MinGW or MSVC as well.

<comment><USER7> That's unlikely to change any time soon, at least from the LLVM side. They're not really in the business of providing OS API headers. At least there's a Windows SDK download now that is smaller than the whole Visual Studio IDE, and the MinGW-w64 project is working on making fully LLVM-based toolchains more usable over time.

<comment><USER5> It would be nice if they could at least keep the documentation up to date on which MinGW-W64 builds work and which don't etc. I just don't have the time to muck around with things when I can just grab a MinGW build and it "just works" out of the box.

With how friendly Microsoft are getting with Clang I was hoping we might see a LLVM+MSVCHeaders build appear. I am sure it is possible considering the new MS.

I know I am lazy in wanting a one-click solution but my build environment is very important to me. I don't want to have to hack it together using blog posts from 6 months ago that might or might not give me a stable setup. I don't think it is too much to ask for something like TDM's GCC installer.

<comment><USER8> You might like Clang with Microsoft CodeGen[1], a work in progress by Microsoft to add a Clang toolset to Visual Studio 2015 that uses the MSVC backend.

[1]: [https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2015/12/04/clang- wit...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2015/12/04/clang-with- microsoft-codegen-in-vs-2015-update-1/)

<comment><USER5> Yeah I have been following the Clang\C2 work. I guess that is what the LLVM project would rather work with Microsoft towards rather than rolling their own. It will certainly make life easier for cross-platform C++ to use Clang/C2 over C1/C2. Having to install Visual Studio to get it is a bit annoying though, I would prefer to fire up a VM with just Clang and the MSVC/Windows headers to command line compile. Visual Studio is a big install inside a VM which is annoying.

I quick question you may know the answer to, does the Windows SDK not come with the Windows C++ headers anymore? I installed the Windows 10 1511 SDK the other day but even a full install didn't give me any of the stdlib which I thought it would do? I understand they removed the compilers but I thought the headers still came with it?

<comment><USER7> Oh, bummer, I even thought the Windows SDK still had the command-line compilers. What's it good for then?

Most open-source projects don't even bother supporting MSVC, and I don't blame them one bit. MinGW-w64 gives a significantly less painful route to Windows support, and allows you to pretend MSVC doesn't exist in a lot of cases.

<comment><USER5> I am trying to work out what use the Windows SDK is without Visual Studio (which also includes the Windows SDK!).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> [http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html](http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html)

"Slightly less than half of the AVR backend has been merged in at this point. It is still missing a number large parts which cause it to be unusable, but is well on the road to being completely merged and workable."

It would be awesome to be able to use LLVM to cross-compile. Perhaps rust could be made to easily run on a µc at that point!

<comment><USER10> > Perhaps rust could be made to easily run on a µc at that point!

That's being worked on: [https://github.com/avr- rust/rust](https://github.com/avr-rust/rust)

Note that it's mainly the same developer behind the LLVM support as well: [https://github.com/avr-llvm/llvm](https://github.com/avr-llvm/llvm)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> OpenMP FTW!

Also, I'm using libFuzzer in my CPython fuzzer [1], and it's getting more awesome with each release.

[1] [https://bitbucket.org/ebadf/fuzzpy](https://bitbucket.org/ebadf/fuzzpy)

</comment><comment><USER12> Unfortunately the official DEB packages have not been updated in about two months – _nightly_ packages they are not.

[http://llvm.org/apt/](http://llvm.org/apt/)

</comment><comment><USER13> > There are numerous improvements to the PowerPC target in this release

That's interesting, who are the current PPC users contributing to LLVM? Is this all from IBM?

<comment><USER14> Highly quick-and-dirty:

      $ git log origin/release_37..origin/release_38 --no-merges -i --grep \
        'ppc\|power pc' --pretty='%ae' | grep --only-matching '@.*' | sort | \
        uniq -c | sort -rn
           16 @anl.gov
           11 @gmail.com
    	7 @linux.vnet.ibm.com
    	4 @iteratee.net
    	3 @ca.ibm.com
    	2 @hanshq.net
    	2 @de.ibm.com
    	2 @apple.com
    	1 @samsung.com
    	1 @linaro.org
    	1 @imgtec.com
    	1 @googlemail.com
    	1 @codeaurora.org

You'd have to look at the individual addresses to disambiguate who @gmail.com and @googlemail.com are; at least 5 are from a Googler. @iteratee.net is also a Googler.

<comment><USER15> The @anl.gov is probably this: [https://www.alcf.anl.gov/bgclang- compiler](https://www.alcf.anl.gov/bgclang-compiler) See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Gene#Blue_Gene.2FQ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Gene#Blue_Gene.2FQ) "The Blue Gene/Q Compute chip is an 18 core chip. The 64-bit PowerPC A2 processor cores are 4-way simultaneously multithreaded, and run at 1.6 GHz."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I'd have to track down where it is in relation to 3.8 release, but Xan López at Igalia has been fixing all the backend blockers to get LLVM on SPARC64/Solaris working properly for us. Can't let the POWER folks get all the RISC legacy love! :)

</comment><comment><USER17> It seems like rust bundles it's own version of llvm. Are patches from the rust community making it in slowly? Or are there some fundamental differences?

Does Swift do something similar, or does it work with stock llvm?

<comment><USER18> It's strange to say it, given that Swift's principal designer is the original creator of LLVM and given that Apple drives the majority of LLVM development, but Swift does indeed ship its own custom version of LLVM: [https://github.com/apple/swift-llvm](https://github.com/apple/swift-llvm) . I'm not sure if, like Rust, Swift also works on stock LLVM.

This is actually quite common. Emscripten ships its own copy of LLVM as well. Rust and Emscripten might actually be combining their efforts into a single LLVM branch this year, in order to provide better WebAssembly support for Rust.

<comment><USER19> I'm curious if you've seen any of the work in-tree that's going on for a native webassembly target in LLVM? It's still early and super rough, but it seems something you may want to peek at.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> LLVM is a wonderful project, but I dont really know much about this release. How is it significant? Side note, I wonder if this is related to why one of my professors - Dr. Adve - has been so busy lately...

<comment><USER21> [http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html](http://llvm.org/releases/3.8.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> LLVM has done some great things, but I strongly dislike it's license. "Source code under the NCSA license can be incorporated into proprietary products without the reciprocity requirements that copyleft free software licenses raise." -LLVM Wikipedia

For this reason, I will continue to use GCC wherever possible. Not completely on topic, but I just wanted to make the point so that people understand that some of us actually do make decisions not purely from pragmatic standpoints.

<comment><USER19> Clang's an important project if for one reason that is slowly starting to gain footage in GCC. Everything's callable outside of the compiler. You can have the compiler loop in your IDE, for example, and take advantage of its AST manipulation for better refactoring, its unidentified behavior sanitizer to immediately get a warning when you're heading into the tall grass, etc. GCC is stymied on this part by more conservative elements of their leadership that don't want to expose this behavior that is a growing necessity in code development.

<comment><USER23> Even if one insists on sticking with gcc on ideological grounds, one should be glad clang exists because it seems to have lit a fire under the maintainers.

<comment><USER17> The ideological reason to use GCC is to prevent clang/llvm from succeeding, which will drive everyone toward a copyleft product (GCC), which will encourage reciprocity.

Your observation is no consolation for someone who subscribes to that ideology.

(Personally, I do not subscribe to that ideology.)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Encryption Companies Throwing Shade Keeps Everyone in the Dark - <AUTHOR> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/encryption-companies-throwing-shade-keeps-everyone-in-the-dark

<comment><USER2> I applaud Whatsapp for even considering this, but I would not trust it for now, and not just because it's closed source. But they need to allow users to authenticate each other somehow, and they also need to change their privacy policy to match the technical change in encryption. Right now Whatsapp's privacy policy still says Whatsapp can intercept your messages. That's completely incompatible with the idea of end-to-end encryption also found in Signal. So unless they also change that, then they can't be trusted when they say the encryption is just as good as Signal's.

Another alarming thing is that Whatsapp has in fact not posted _anything_ about this. So as far as they're concerned they've never officially stated that Whatsapp uses end-to-end encryption. It was only Moxie the one who claimed that. Not that I don't believe Moxie, but at some point if Whatapp is discovered to have given the data to some evil dictator (or the FBI) they can just say "hey, I don't know where you got this idea that we can't see your messages ourselves, but we can." And they'd be legally covered by the unchanged privacy policy, too.

So if Whatsapp wants the benefit of everyone saying how secure it is for using Axolotl, then they should first _commit_ to that.</comment>


Dropbox's Summer 07 YC Application - <AUTHOR> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/2/app.html <comment><USER2> What happens when I read this:

File syncing. Superset of backups, which people will pay for. Good. Single founder. Bad. But at least he's looking for more people. Went to MIT, 1600 SAT. Probably fairly smart. Wrote a poker bot. Now I'm starting to get interested; has the right attitude. Description of the software sounds plausible but generic. Maybe it's good, but who can tell. But little sister uses it; that's impressive. Scroll down to what he understands that competitors don't get. Wow: very concise and unequivocal. I'm now basically sold. Scroll through the rest. No red flags. Did not make the usual joke single founders make when asked how long the founders have known one another. Good answer to what might go wrong. A-. (Would be an A with a cofounder.)

<comment><USER2> I went back and looked at this application in our system, and I did in fact give it an A-.

An A- means "I want to interview." An A means "I want to interview, even if Rtm and Trevor don't."

I only gave 2 As in s2007. (We funded both those companies, and both did badly.)

<comment><USER3> You should give founders these notes from the application during YC. It's gotta be brutally honest, probably more so than you are to someone's face.

<comment><USER2> I don't actually write this stuff down. That was just what my train of thought was while reading the application.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _"Dropbox synchronizes files across your/your team's computers. It's much better than uploading or email, because it's automatic, integrated into Windows, and fits into the way you already work. There's also a web interface, and the files are securely backed up to Amazon S3. Dropbox is kind of like taking the best elements of subversion, trac and rsync and making them "just work" for the average individual or team. Hackers have access to these tools, but normal people don't."_

That is probably the most amazingly succinct and interesting elevator pitch I have read/heard. It clearly defines the product, the problem it solves, and provides metaphors for better understanding.

<comment><USER5> If you already know what subversion, trac, and rsync are.

<comment><USER6> And since he was pitching to PG - then it was completely appropriate. Your elevator pitch can change based on who you are talking to.

case in point, the pitch to his sister is/was: "You'll be able to keep track of all your high school term papers, and you wont need to burn CDs or carry USB sticks anymore."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I have a funny story about Dropbox which happened two weeks ago. I have a friend who has been running a travel business for about 6 years. During that time, I've hosted her website, email, etc...for $5/month. I've also spent quite a bit of time upgrading her website with each release of the CMS, customizing things and doubling her disk space 3 times (for free) as her email ate up disk space.

Needless to say, I was losing on this deal. So, one day she emails me and asks how much a server would cost. In an effort to save her money, I ask her why she needs a dedicated server. Her response was, "To share files with a new part-time helper." OK, so you sure don't need a dedicated server for that and I recommended that she try Dropbox and if she doesn't like it, let me know and I'll spec out a server for her if that is what she really wants.

A week later she asks me to give her the login details for her account so she can move her email and files over to a new server. Surprised, I ask her what provider and how much she's paying. She signed a 13 month contract with a no- name, 1 person company for $750/month. Oh, and he's not hosting the website...just files and email, so I get to keep managing that.

Lessons learned:

1) I'm apparently charging WAY too little for services rendered.

2) Don't break your neck helping people for nothing, expecting some kind of return later.

3) Don't recommend Dropbox (j/k)

<comment><USER8> I don't actually know what's going on, but it sounds awfully a lot like you like this person and are being taken advantage of.

<comment><USER7> I was happy to do it when she started. She quit her (good) job to start the biz and had no money. Her lifestyle hasn't changed and I figured she was trudging along in the "valley of death". It seems she's doing ok now, but my guess is that this server will be a major strain on her profits and she made an impulse buy. The "company" was recommended to her by someone she looks up to. I actually feel sorry for her because she is getting ripped off.

The experience made me seriously rethink everything I'm currently doing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> brown9-2 Just want to take this opportunity to say that I love dropbox and its an awesome service. Great job by Drew and the rest of the team.

</comment><comment><USER9> So he was a single founder at the time of his YC application. Did he end up finding a cofounder?

<comment><USER10> According to <https://www.getdropbox.com/about> , Arash Ferdowsi is a founder (and CTO). Looks like the entire dropbox team is 15 people.

One of the most remarkable things about this application is how accurately it predicted what Dropbox would be. The idea isn't hard to grasp, but its brilliant execution continues to distinguish dropbox as a surprisingly good product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I think it's fair to assume that YC et al are looking for some or all of the elements demonstrated here - a feasible and practical idea, demonstrated skills, some thought out strategy / swot analysis.

For me, what makes this application as a _sole founder_ stand out from the many other talented people who apply?

> _How long have the founders known one another and how did you meet?_

 _There's a joke in here somewhere._

<comment><USER12> _> How long have the founders known one another and how did you meet?

There's a joke in here somewhere._

I'm curious about what other sole founders answered here. I believe I wrote "Does a man ever truly know himself?" once...

<comment><USER13> "I am currently the sole founder. This has to change for Fleaflicker to survive."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> "The ridiculous things people name their documents to do versioning, like "proposal v2 good revised NEW 11-15-06.doc", continue to crack me up. "

So true...

</comment><comment><USER15> i would love to see how some successful non-yc company founders would have filled this application out in their early days. ie- joshu, pg with viaweb,etc. pretty fascinating stuff.

<comment><USER16> here is one answer of one of the aforementioned parties: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=715667>

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Curious: what happened to accoladeprep.com?

</comment><comment><USER18> It amazes me how many people - normal, laypeople, not smart crazy hackers like us - recommend dropbox for file stuff these days. Kudos for creating something we now can't live without.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yep, I once casually introduced my graphic designer housemate to it. And he swears by it now! In his own words, "Dropbox has completely changed my life".

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> hmm... the last line kind of surprised me, even though I don't think I should be surprised. Do you think the Dropbox folks ever look at your filenames and/or open your files? I guess I similarly wonder if the Google Gmail folks ever read my emails. I'm not really worried about them doing it in some systemic evil fashion so much as some random developer or sysop just looking through things.

Anyway, thanks for posting this. I'm a huge Dropbox fan and it was cool seeing a bit of their history.

<comment><USER20> That doesn't have to be a file from the users. It can be a sample filename he sees his colleagues names; thus trying to solve the problem of versioning by filename by non SCM users.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Amazing application. Out of curiosity, how much equity did YC take? (6%)?

</comment><comment><USER22> haha - sales oriented guy - i do more than that @dhouston!

<comment><USER23> Does providing the blow and hookers really count?

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is an interesting little anecdote from their blog - <http://blog.getdropbox.com/?p=33>

</comment><comment><USER24> A late to the party comment: I (just now!) finished a submission for an SBIR grant.

Even though I understand why the SBIR submission is the way that it is, the simplicity of this application form makes me jealous. :( I've been doing 6am-2am for two days in a row now and not even writing code.

</comment><comment><USER25> Dropbox is indispensable to me. It is my main sync method of my most important Keynote outliner file. I am impressed by their obvious technical mastery as well as their clear idea of how things could turn out and how they could find their niche.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Got to love the guy's confidence.

</comment><comment><USER26> How can people thing this big? I could never even think about such a service. I would be afraid. How do I keep up with free disk space, crashed, backups? I could never do it.

<comment><USER27> This is all taken care of using Amazon S3 services.

Interesting read. I wish dropbox had gone ahead with their initial plan to charge $5 a month for individual users. I would happily pay for this service, but $120/year for personal backup is too much. Something in the $50-60pa mark sounds better. Instead I use dropbox all my shared docs, and backup to my own S3 account for larger backups and one-way sharing of bigger files.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I would give this guy an interview.

</comment><comment><USER29> > ... and an 'enterprise' plan that features, well, a really high price.

I love this part of the plan.

</comment><comment><USER30> Brief discussion from not too long ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=715584>

You've got to appreciate was the directness of the answers to questions on the application.

</comment><comment><USER31> I really think pg should create a very successful business just on reading startups proposals and giving them ratings and charging them for his analysis. Please let me build it for you. Anyways.. more please.

</comment><comment><USER32> Prophecy:

In less then 12 months either Apple, Google or Microsoft will buy DropBox for more than 500m$

<comment><USER33> If none buy by then, then say you didn't say than.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Love the last answer.

<comment><USER35> Re the penultimate answer, inkscape has a shared whiteboard facility, never used it though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> This made me happy.

</comment><comment><USER37> Cool, I wish I could take part in YC too.

</comment><comment><USER38> This is very cool.

</comment><comment><USER39> What happens when Mike reads this:

I think, "Brilliant!" To my eyes, you can tell the applicant is sharp, has put a lot of thought into the problem area, has a breadth of technical skills, has a track record that shows he had ambition, vision and can execute, and oh, by the way, he's out to solve a real problem that people have every day. So yeah, that's a good application to study. And it helps that, since then, at least in my opinion as a big user and fan of Dropbox as it works today, he has successfully executed on that vision and plan. Well done, man. Well done.

And bonus points for having Python in the stack. :)</comment>


The fatal attraction of lead - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29568505 <comment><USER3> Lead paint and lead gasoline are shocking examples of corporate misbehavior.

Interior lead paint was banned in many European countries by the 1920s because of the obvious health risks. But in the US the lead manufactures responded to health concerns with "Dutch Boy" lead paint, deliberately marketed to appear safe enough for a child to use. They actually had advertising campaigns promoting lead paint for childrens' toys, cribs, and bedrooms. Household lead paint not banned in the US until 1978, and it now a major concern and cost for people living in older homes.

The health risks of leaded gasoline were also obvious to many, and ethanol was known as a safe alternative anti-knock additive in the 1920s. General Motors and Alfred P. Sloan tried to hide the risks of lead paint via front groups and manipulation of regulatory agencies.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLoixnECec0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLoixnECec0) Video about Dutch Boy paint advertising to children.

[http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/04/why-it- too...](http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/04/why-it-took-decades- of-blaming-parents-before-we-banned-lead-paint/275169/) David Rosner is the Ronald H. Lauterstein Professor of Sociomedical Sciences and a professor of history at Columbia University. Gerald Markowitz is a Distinguished Professor of History at John Jay College and CUNY Graduate Center. Their most recent book is Lead Wars: The Politics of Science and the Fate of Americaís Children.

[http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/07/violent...](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/07/violent- crime-lead-poisoning-british-export) Yes, lead poisoning could really be a cause of violent crime, by George Monbiot

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/lead-paint- lawsuit-...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/lead-paint-lawsuit- california-tobacco-industry_n_3696533.html) Lead Paint Makers Could Face The Same Fate As Big Tobacco

[http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-history- lead](http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-history-lead) The Secret History of Lead

<comment><USER4> Interesting, I hadn't realized the first bans were as early as the 1920s. Researching a bit now, it seems like concerns were raised by at least the 19th century, and were pretty solid by the early 20th, which is not at all how I've heard it presented previously. I had previously assumed that it was not really known to science until the 1960s or so, which seems untrue.

From what I've found in some quick digging, it seems like the early bans were driven by workplace-safety concerns (rather than residential safety), as unions agitated to ban dangerous substances that had been causing health problems for painters and other workers who were exposed to it (e.g. through sanding). There was a 1921 convention of the International Labor Organization to that effect, but the U.S. didn't sign: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lead_%28Painting%29_Conv...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lead_%28Painting%29_Convention,_1921)

<comment><USER5> Lead paint was recommended by the Federal government and required for many projects for much of the 20th century. This is a (admittedly biased, just look at the URL) page discussing some examples of the history:

[http://www.leadlawsuits.com/index.php?s=699](http://www.leadlawsuits.com/index.php?s=699)

<comment><USER6> This link is very informative with regards to lead paint, it wasn't some corporate abuse, there were compelling reasons to use lead paint and hence it was accepted. It even notes that it was rarely found in interior paints by the forties, it persisted in outdoor paints because it could withstand the elements.

That strength was why it was used in the first place, you could wash it and the concerns of that age were communicable diseases that were slowed or prevented by washing, which the previous interior covering being wallpaper was not so durable and was suspected of easily harboring disease through pores and the glue.

Top it off with the US Government basically telling you to use it. Many of the health concerns for lead use were only seen as manufacturing dangers, end products were not considered unsafe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Surprisingly, the fuel used in piston-powered aircraft generally still contains lead: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas)

Wikipedia says that the amount of lead in 100LL avgas is "about 4 times what was in pre-1975 leaded automotive grade gasoline."

As a private pilot, yes I do feel a bit guilty that my hobby adds lead to the environment ...

<comment><USER8> Thankfully, the general aviation industry in the US is moving away from leaded avgas. [http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All- News/2014/September/0...](http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All- News/2014/September/08/FAA-selects-four-unleaded-fuels-for-testing)

<comment><USER7> Unfortunately (and I say this as a member of the organization), I feel like the AOPA is fighting - or at least dragging its feet - on the issue, since transition to any other fuel is likely to add some kind of expense or inconvenience.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I wonder if leaded gasoline is playing any kind of role in the continued unrest in the Middle East? FTA:

 _Chronic lead exposure causes depression, headaches, aggression and memory loss. ...._

 _[M]any academics now believe leaded petrol was responsible for a global crime wave that peaked in the 1990s. ..._

 _Amazingly, a handful of countries - Iraq, Yemen, Burma, North Korea - continue to use leaded petrol._

<comment><USER10> "Unrest in the Middle East" is a blanket phrase so broad as to be meaningless. What specific conflict do you have in mind?

Keep in mind that the number of vehicles per capita is much lower in Iraq and Yemen (the only two countries you mention) than in the United States.

Your comment rubs me the wrong way since it speaks to a mindset where complicated geopolitical problems can be solved or explained by a simple hack. Don't use lead! Peace treaties to follow.

<comment><USER11> There's no law of the universe that says big problems must have complicated solutions. Checklists have prevented countless mistakes in aviation and medical care. Scurvy plagued sailors for centuries, but the cure was vitamin C. Until the mid-1800's, doctors killed many of their patients from infection because they didn't wash their hands after performing autopsies.[1]

Of course, banning lead in those countries will have a beneficial effect, but I don't think it will quell much unrest. The middle east was unstable well before the introduction of leaded gasoline. And as you said, car ownership isn't as common there.

1\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> In Romania they used to still use lead plumbing until the early 2000s! As a kid, I loved that stuff, so maleable, you could do so many things from it, and it melted so easily. I loved to melt it and cast into into various shapes.

<comment><USER13> I remember chewing on some lead fishing sinkers once or twice before my dad told me I was an idiot and playing with mercury one time when I broke a thermometer. I just wonder what "safe" things we use daily that we'll look back and say wtf were we thinking?

<comment><USER14> Flame retardant furniture and children's clothing is a likely candidate.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Various causes have been credited for the decline of violent crime in the 1990s in the U.S., one of which was the legalization of abortion in 1973. I didn't realize violent crime declined globally at the same time. That makes me think that perhaps leaded gas is a more likely culprit.

Untreated ADHD has also been linked to violent crime, so with any luck we'll continue the downward trend in violent incidence as the treatment of ADHD continues.

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3398051/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3398051/)

</comment><comment><USER16> I'm still impressed by the seemingly high correlation between gasoline lead exposure and violent crimes.

<comment><USER17> Mother Jones had a very interesting story about the topic a while ago:

[http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime- li...](http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link- gasoline)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> The european union (EU) banned lead gasoline in 2000 (~ 2005 "lead free"), USA already in 1978.

Many airplanes can still legally use lead fuel.

source (german): [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorenbenzin#Verbleites_Benzin](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorenbenzin#Verbleites_Benzin)

<comment><USER19> > The european union (EU) banned lead gasoline in 2000 (~ 2005 "lead free"), > USA already in 1978.

These dates are to completely different events.

The US _started_ phasing out leaded gas in the mid-70s (the EPA announced its first regs in 1975, effective 1978) but didn't complete the phaseout until 1996.

The EU did start and complete its phaseout later (starting in 1981, in part because of the resistance of some members e.g. France) but a few member states did so much earlier (Germany started phasing out leaded in 1972 and had completed its phaseout by 1988).

<comment><USER20> Wikipedia[1] lists the U.S. phaseout as having completed in 1995. Some of the countries mentioned in the BBC article are phasing out leaded gasoline: Algeria in 2014, Iraq in 2015.

I wonder why it's still even called "unleaded" in the U.S. when you can't even buy leaded gasoline anymore. Maybe it should just be called gasoline or better yet, petrol. The commonly used term "gas" is confusing because Americans use it to refer to liquid refined petroleum fuel i.e. gasoline, yet also to refer to gaseous substances that include methane and other fossil fuels.

1\. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The use of leaded paint indoors and of leaded gasoline were particularly dangerous, but there are still numerous potential sources of lead exposure, especially in certain industries, but also for the average person. Exposure has decreased, but the safe blood lead level has also been reduced as we become increasingly aware of the harms of sub-clinical lead poisoning.

Two interesting properties of lead's toxicity that weren't mentioned in the article are its potency and its ability to accumulate. A blood lead level of 10 ug/dL is often listed as a threshold for concern (though for children 5 ug/dL or less is more appropriate). A typical blood volume for an adult is around 50 dL (according to Wikipedia), so 10 ug/dL would mean that there are 500 ug of lead in your blood. Lead has a density of 11.3 g/cm^3, so 500 ug has a volume of 44.2 nL. If you have every used a 2 uL pipette, you would have an idea of how small of a volume 44.2 nL is (for those who haven't, it's somewhere in the range of a grain of sand [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28volume%2...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28volume%29)). Although not all the lead we ingest is absorbed and lead is distributed throughout various organs, this should give a sense of how potent of a toxin lead is. Lead is also cleared from the body fairly slowly, so the amount of exposure per day needed to build up to a toxic level is even lower. These two properties, combined with the ubiquity of lead in our society, the long timescales over which it causes harm, and widespread ignorance of or apathy towards its harms are why I find it a particularly frightening toxin.

One source that could be relevant to some in the HN crowd is electronics solder. Although Europe banned the use of lead in electronic components and solder in most applications in 2006 with RoHS, leaded solder is still mostly legal and common in the US (it looks like CA has partially adopted RoHS [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substa...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive#North_America)). It is fairly easy to use leaded hand solder safely, but it is also entirely plausible that a child with inadequate training or supervision could ingest a significant amount of lead while soldering, from the small flakes of solder that accumulate on your workbench, dust, or lead oxides on a sponge. I had no idea how toxic lead was when I taught myself to solder in high school, and I'm glad I didn't do it much then for that reason.

I have recently started using Sn96.5Ag3Cu0.5 (lead free) solder, and although it is somewhat more expensive that leaded solder, with proper tools, plated PCBs, and correct technique it is really quite easy to use. I have some aggressive rosin-activated flux on hand (that requires cleanup) but I haven't needed to use it so far. I would highly recommend trying out Sn96.5Ag3Cu0.5, especially if you're sharing a workspace with children, who are far more susceptible to lead for various reasons.

A fair number of materials that you might encounter can contain lead as an additive, including plastic, brass, bronze, steel ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_machining_steel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_machining_steel)), and metal/hobby/industrial/artist paints. It's always worth looking up what hazardous compounds may be present in something before putting a grinder to it (again, something I hadn't mastered in high school).

More along the lines of the article, here is another particularly egregious historical use of lead as a color in candy. In this case the compound, lead (II) chromate, also contained hexavalent chromium, another particularly hazardous chemical ([http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=aC9NAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA93&dq=%...](http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=aC9NAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA93&dq=%22chromate+of+lead%22+candy)).

<comment><USER22> From what I was told, lead-free solder has a large amount of flux in it to make it half-way usable. Unless you're licking your fingers after soldering with leaded solder, you may be doing more damage to your lungs with the lead- free stuff than you're doing to your body with the leaded. But I'd love to see the numbers on this.

<comment><USER23> I've looked into this, but I'm torn. In my mind the most compelling arguments against lead-free are: of the studies of factory workers who work every day with lead/tin solder, they couldn't find elevated blood lead levels; and that the fluxes in lead-free solders are both more exotic (i.e. less studied for adverse health effects) and a greater proportion of the solder.

The danger of absorbed lead is clear, but it's not a straight line from there to lead-free solder. Furthermore, the process that resulted in the EU (mostly) banning lead solder seems to be based more on the precautionary principle than any evidence of health or environmental damage from solder specifically. Added to that is some definite PR misinformation floating around - it's been hard for me to come to any conclusions.

<comment><USER24> The EU regulation is about preventing lead contamination of the waste stream.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> You know, we really ought to rename Tantalum->Lead, and Lead->Tantalum.

Can someone clarify what the last part of the article was saying?

        In some hotspots - downwind from old smelters, or where
        miners dumped their spoils - it can be as high as 3%.

Does that seriously mean you could scoop a handful of dirt and 3% of that would be lead?!

<comment><USER19> Yes, though I expect it's 3% by mass, so for 1kg of soil you get 30g of lead (30000ppm).

For reference, uncontaminated natural soil averages 10ppm.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> For those that liked the article, it's basically a re-write of one of the episodes of the Elements podcast from the BBC World Service.

You can get the other episodes here: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/elements](http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/elements)

It's very entertaining and highly recommended.

</comment><comment><USER27> My grandparents had lead christmas tree tinsel, which they carefully removed from the tree at the end of christmas and packed away for next year. It was admittedly beautiful, and it hung straight down without fluttering around like that cheap plastic stuff!

</comment><comment><USER28> As nasty as lead is, a few things make me wonder if some of the claims, particularly regarding low levels of lead and IQ, are on shaky ground. The Flynn Effect continued despite lead levels rising during the twentieth century. Now that lead has been eliminated, there should be clear increases in IQ- have these been found?

</comment><comment><USER29> And it tastes so so sweet...

When my friends and I were children we found pieces of lead while dumpster diving. Probably 5 pounds of it. We taught ourselves how to make plaster-of- paris molds and tried to counterfeit the most important thing to us - <USER2> game tokens from the local arcade.

We made only a handful of tokens before we realized the effort was more than the payoff. We had to rebuild the mold each time and break it with a hammer to pull out the token.

We never even tried the tokens. And I think the lead fumes from melting it on a bunsen burner from my Christmas chemistry set probably didn't help us in the long run...

Making nitrogen tri-iodide in high-school had a much better payoff, even if we had to steal the solid iodine from the chemistry class supply closet. This was before the internet and so we learned this one from the anarchist's cookbook. My cat hated walking in the basement after each batch.

Did anyone else experience the purple acrid smoke at the back of your throat?

<comment><USER30> I did the same thing as as a kid with my brother (we broken open batteries instead to get the lead). I never tried to spend the "money" we made, but just used it to impress other kids in the playground. I guess this is where some of the appeal of physical gold comes from - the weight of these coins when held in the hand sure impressed.

We avoided breaking the mould by casting the plaster of paris in two sections. The first you cast to halfway up the side of the coin lying flat and once it sets you rub grease over the top of everything and then cast the over half. Once everything has dried the two half split apart easy. We put in little sticks into the first cast sticking up 5mm so that the two halves could be aligned again after removing the coin. You could use this mould as many times as you liked. I do agree that the effort far out weighed the financial reward though :)

Someone should start making and selling gold plated tungsten coins as a cheap replica of gold coins - I know this sometimes happens as forgeries, but it would be nice to have a few hundred of these to play around with and impress your friends.

Edit. It looks like there is a company in China that actually does this. I have contacted them to see what they cost as I would love to have some of these.

<comment><USER31> Batteries also hold PbSO3 or smth, which mixed with aluminium powder makes very loud bang.

Oh and then the acetone peroxide we used to make from washing liquid. Don't even ask me how I managed to source nitric acid as I just kept it in my room until mason jar lid just disintegrated...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> The crime rate correlation with lead tainted gasoline is fascinating.

Could it be that in lower socioeconomic areas have older cars that produces lead in to the air, and the population ends up breathing a lot of it?

<comment><USER33> You have been downvoted, but you have a point. In the 1970s, you could buy both leaded and unleaded gas at service stations. New cars used unleaded gas, but old ones "required" leaded for various reasons that turned out to be mostly wrong ([http://www.stevelinden.com/unleaded-gas-vs-regular-gas-in- cl...](http://www.stevelinden.com/unleaded-gas-vs-regular-gas-in-classic- cars)). Unleaded was required to work with the catalytic converters that were newly required in cars.

Regular leaded gas was cheaper. My neighbor had the catalytic converter in his car removed (it was illegal) so he could use the cheaper leaded gas.

So there would be an effect in which old cars imply more lead.

<comment><USER34> "It's the model made before catalytic converters, so it'll run good on regular gas. Whaddaya say, is it the new bluesmobile or what?"

— Elwood Blues, 1980, _The Blues Brothers_</comment></comment></comment>


Coronavirus: The Zebra Swan - <AUTHOR> https://spectator.org/coronavirus-the-zebra-swan/ <comment><AUTHOR> Interesting insights into supply chain challenges just a few weeks away. Key quotes:

"I'm tired of hearing the phrase "uncharted territory" because at least in uncharted territory you can pull your canoe over, take a day off, and try to sort through your bearings. We're in uncharted territory on class-three rapids with a tribe of hyper-intelligent axe-wielding bears chasing us."

"There's nothing we can do but prepare ourselves for the consequences of decisions already made."

"This week may very well be the worst one because of the nature of the coronavirus incubation period and the impatience of our modern culture. Many of us have been effectively quarantined for two or three weeks already, and we're feeling the social, psychological, and economic effects of that. It is exhausting, and we want to know that it's working. But we can't know that just yet. We need to trust that it's working even as we see the bad news rolling in this week. We hope we'll see the effects of our sacrifice translate into reduced cases. We trust that we're making a difference, but that faith needs to manifest itself as evidence fairly soon or morale will go downhill quickly."

"We've taken this pandemic, an event clearly unique in the last 100 years, and layered upon it an economic event without precedent. What happens when the world stands still for four weeks? The simple and terrifying answer is that we don't know."</comment>


Experiment: crossover between Reddit and Twitter - <AUTHOR> https://www.woodscreaming.com <comment><USER2> Woods Creaming, risky click.

</comment><comment><USER3> a shout-box with tags?

the beauty of twitter is subscriptions, the "beauty" of reddit democracy</comment>


Ask HN: Summer Reading Recommendations? - <AUTHOR> I'm about to take a few weeks off, and I'd love to hear recommendations from HNers on books they've read recently and enjoyed. I'm open to anything, fiction or non-fiction -- and I'd be particularly interested in subjects other than programming or entrepreneurship. <comment><USER6> _Palace Walk_ , by Naguib Mahfouz

A family drama set in Cairo during and after World War I. It's a long book, but the going is easy. The variety of characters of different ages and temperaments, each with their own preoccupations in a turbulent time, provide a fascinating glimpse of what to me was an entirely unknown society and culture. It's the first book in a trilogy, so if you like it, there are more books waiting.

 _Never Let Me Go_ , by Kazuo Ishiguro

Very sad. It ripped me up the first time I read it. Anybody who grew up feeling different and somehow deficient should read it.

 _Talking to Strange Men_ , by Ruth Rendell

An easy and fast-paced kind-of-mystery by a well-known mystery writer. There are two stories related in a crucial but indirect way. Each story has mysteries and twists that could stand on their own for suspense, but they play second fiddle to the development of several interesting characters.

 _Persepolis_ and _Persepolis 2_ , by Marjane Satrapi

Graphic memoirs about growing up in Iran and Europe.

</comment><comment><USER7> On a "what makes us tick" non-fiction bent:

1\. Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (<http://tinyurl.com/33kv6te>) - fascinating look at the author's theory of Flow, the state of total absorption that accompanies total concentration - so called "optimal experience". Anyone who programs knows this feeling. Really excellent book.

2\. Stumbling on Happiness by Daniel Gilbert (<http://tinyurl.com/38lvdzc>) - not the self-help book it sounds like, but an interesting look at why we're so bad at working out what will make us happy.

3\. The Tiger that isn't by Andrew Dilnot (<http://tinyurl.com/38hntqx>) - interesting guide to our instinctive interpretation of statistics and how the media manipulates it.

4\. Bad Science by Ben Goldacre (<http://tinyurl.com/3yk8woz>) - at once amusing and horrifying look at various aspects of pseudoscience, especially as applied to healthcare.

Fiction:

1\. Anything by Iain Banks, especially the sci-fi.

2\. If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things by Jon McGregor (<http://tinyurl.com/3496d34>) - worth reading just for the language he uses.

3\. American Gods by Neil Gaiman (<http://tinyurl.com/3xyr65w>) - <USER2> fantasy with a darkly humorous side.

</comment><comment><USER8> Here are some nonfiction books that I've enjoyed.

 _How We Know What Isn't So: The Fallibility of Human Reason in Everyday Life_ \- Gilovich - a good book on the inability of the human mind to accept things as random.

 _Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High_ \- Patterson, et all - fluffy but nice short and solid book for better skills at listening and responding in conversation

 _Full Throttle: The Life & Fast Times of Racing Legend Curtis Turner_ \- Edlestein - Curtis Turner was an influential figure in the development of what became NASCAR. I enjoyed the book for his character and as insight into a pass time that I had not really understood.

 _Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day_ \- Reinhart - His latest book on quality home baking. This is definitely a do along with the book kind of read, but I found it to be easy to follow, appealing to detail, and satisfying in producing delicious bread.

 _Vintage Spirits and Forgotten Cocktails: From the Alamagoozlum to the Zombie 100 Rediscovered Recipes and the Stories Behind Them_ \- Haigh - If you're of age, this is an interesting background in cocktails and their evolution in America.

I forget whether it was on HN or not, but I've been enjoying this list of great magazine articles <http://www.kk.org/cooltools/the-best-magazi.php> .

</comment><comment><USER9> I'm reading The Joy of Clojure right now. I've never been able to get myself into lisp, but this book is doing a pretty damn good job.

I think technical books are best combined with fiction, because it's pleasant to keep switching between the two as you get bored. I just finished and highly recommend Fluke by Christopher Moore. Its synopsis does not do it justice: once you start reading it, it's impossible to put down.

<comment><USER10> I think "Lamb" is my favorite Christopher Moore book.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I really like the Sherlock Holmes stories.

They are a bit dated, but still good reads.

[http://www.amazon.com/Study-Scarlet-Sherlock-Holmes- Mystery/...](http://www.amazon.com/Study-Scarlet-Sherlock-Holmes- Mystery/dp/1450596185/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280782968&sr=8-1)

</comment><comment><USER12> Surely you are joking, Mr. Feynman.

D. MacKay: Sustainable energy - without the hot air.

N. Taleb: Fooled by randomness.

M. Karinthy: A journey round my skull.

<comment><USER13> Not a fan of Taleb, who is in love with the sound of his own voice, and who is articulating concepts that may be shocking to pit traders but not so much to anyone who has spent quality time on Usenet.

<comment><USER12> Yeah, he gets repetitive for sure. But I still think the core of his message is sound and (somewhat) counterintuitive (to me at least): you can lose most bets if you win the rare large ones, people underestimate the probability of outlier events, people tend to find patterns in sheer randomness, etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> It's older, but I really enjoyed Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson.

</comment><comment><USER15> I think Haruki Murakami (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haruki_murakami>) is one of the most interesting and weird contemporary novelists alive today. On a similar Japanese tip, also check out anything by Kobo Abe, particularly The Woman in the Dunes and The Box Man.

If you're into sci-fi, as inevitably a lot of hackers are, Jeff Noon's Vurt and Pollen are both brilliant.

<comment><USER16> I enjoyed The Woman in the Dunes as well. Very well written, though it left me feeling a bit disturbed.

Another great novel (also Japanese) is Kokoro by Natsume Soseki. It's not sci- fi and the plot isn't especially thick, however just like a lot of Japanese novels, the focus is on the character development, and it is done very very well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Things you can easily read on the beach:

 _A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again_ by David Foster Wallace.

 _The Master and Margarita_ by Mikhail Bulgakov.

 _Medium Raw_ by Anthony Bourdain (but read _Kitchen Confidential_ first if you haven't already).

Also recommend FiveBooks.com, which does interviews with various academics and "thinkers" each recommending 5 books on a particular subject. It's a bit slanted towards politics but has a fair bit of hard science as well.

<comment><USER17> _The Master and Margarita_ is very good, but you have to take care with which translation you pick up.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita#Englis...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita#English_translations)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> If you like SciFi, I really recommend Ian M. Banks and his Culture Series.

Here is a link to the "first" in the series: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consider_Phlebas>

Basically to give you a flavour, imagine a utopian society where energy is basically free and run by super intelligent benevolent AIs. So basically the citizens have nothing to do but live a completely hedonistic life.

Whenever they encounter "primitive" societies, they try to make them more human and civilized. Basically the opposite of the "prime directive". The organization responsible for that is called Contact. Unfortunately, in order to make these societies more humane they sometimes have to resort to some dirty tricks (like assassinating evil dictators, instigating civil wars, etc etc). The organization responsible for that is called "Special Circumstances".

Another author I find great is Sheri Tepper. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheri_S._Tepper>

SciFi with a feminist bent. Examples are Grass / and the Margarets.

If you want something more acid, anything by Victor Pelevin. Buddha's little finger is brilliant.

</comment><comment><USER19> Capitalism and Freedom by Milton Friedman

Also, as a good counterpoint (sort of)...

Small is Beautiful: Economics as if People Mattered by E.F. Schumacher

I personally don't think the whole book is that great, but the chapter, "Buddhist Economics", is really good and reprinted here: [http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/buddhist_economics/english.h...](http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/buddhist_economics/english.html)

</comment><comment><USER20> If you haven't, read Ender's Game. It's phenomenally well written science fiction.

If you have read it a long time ago, re-read it!

<comment><USER15> Also, if you love the book, it might pay to avoid reading anything about Orson Scott Card, particularly any recent interviews.

I've let what he stands for as an individual colour my enjoyment of his novels, which is a pity as they're some of my favourite in the genre.

<comment><USER21> I'm a huge fan of Orson Scott Card, so take the following with a grain of salt.

Despite "recent interviews" which most people really disagree with, I still think almost all his fiction works are great. So if you liked Ender's Game, be sure to pick up other fiction books by him. I especially recommend "Songmaster" and "The Worthing Saga".

<comment><USER22> I remember reading something about him personally and tried to not let it taint my recent reading and then next year rereading of Ender's Game. I've forgotten what I was so upset about, thankfully, so I can still enjoy that and Speaker for the Dead for what they are.

I don't often get really emotional when I read books anymore (I'm newly in my 30's), but Ender's game just hit me so hard. I'm glad for the experience.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Recently finished _The Endurance: Shackleton's Legendary Antarctic Expedition_ \- An extraordinary true story and possibly the best book I've ever read.

</comment><comment><USER24> A Game of Thrones by George R R Martin. Fiction. Fantasy, but not _too_ fantasy; it's almost the same as the world we live in. But Martin is a genius. His world is deep and it seems like he's lived there for years. His characters are fascinating and unique, to a level I've never seen before. His writing style is subtly distinct, enough that you don't notice it initially but you gradually pick up on small changes that he made and appreciate it more. Last, his plot writing is truly masterful. If you're familiar with it, this is sort of "The Wire" of fantasy books.

<comment><USER25> +1 for A Game of Thrones.

As a side note HBO picked up the rights to AGOT and is currently filming the series which should be airing sometime in 2011.

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/>

Martin is an incredible writer and the books have lots of depth. His characters are amazing. I've read them a couple times and continue to find them fantastic.

Martin chooses each detail that he writes about with intent, while not always apparent on your first reading, he has an artful way of layering plot points or connecting characters with subtle details.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> My favourite books read lately are Here Comes Everybody by Clay Shirky and Perrotta's Metaprogramming Ruby. If you haven't read Free by Chris Anderson, it's also highly recommended. It's just an article, but Anarconomy by the Copenhagen Institute for Futures Studies was a very interesting read (<http://www.cifs.dk/doc/medlemsrapporter/MR0309UK.pdf>).

If you are willing to check out an audiobook, World War Z is truly an amazing book. Absolutely the best audiobook I have heard so far.

Enjoy your weeks off!

<comment><USER27> The print version of World War Z is very good as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I just finished Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace.

It's a 1000-page kind of experimental fiction about entertainment/addiction.

It took me a while to read, but is something I'd recommend, anyway.

<comment><USER29> So, what's the jest of it? Someone told me that if you finish it, the joke is on you ;)

<comment><USER30> While witty enough as a throwaway comment, I disagree and recommend IJ to anyone who likes nested (recursive!), variable scope humor. The experimental portions of it do not thrill me except insofar as they are amusing.

The novel is a sort of intersection of so funny it hurts and it hurts so much it's funny.

The eponym of the title is apt for one of the viewpoint characters, who is unable to communicate by the end of the story (beginning of the book), and much more so his father, who is a very type of Yorick: mute by being dead, of excellent fancy, etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Two of my favourite summer books:

 _The Great Gatsby_ by F. Scott Fitzgerald

 _Generation X: Tales for an Accelerated Culture_ by Douglas Coupland

Any friend of Gatsby is a friend of mine.

<comment><USER32> > The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald

I read Gatsby and came away with two thoughts:

1\. How incredibly well constructed. Almost every paragraph weaves a story together that starts off slow and then accelerates incredibly rapidly.

2\. I think it's so popular because it paints a picture of rich people as actually unsuccessful at what really matters to them, depraved, inconsiderate, immoral, and miserable and hollow on the inside. Note how frequently the book is recommended by English professors with no money who generally hate wealthy people - it's like, "see, they're like us, just _even worse!_ "

Worth reading, though, at the very least to see what the fuss is about. It is incredibly well-constructed from a writing standpoint.

<comment><USER33> I think it's more a fact of describing the life of upper class people. The poor characters are not so well painted too. But they live (or want to live) in the upper class world, in the book. We have only flash of the world of the "poor".

The narrator, also, is from a bourgeois family (Nick graduated from Yale).

So maybe it was just a novel describing a world. A World fading away.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Fiction:

\- Someone already mentioned Neil Gaiman's "American Gods", but it's so good, I'll mention it again :) Very well constructed and has its specific atmosphere...

\- Anything by Iain Banks - "Walking on glass", "Wasp factory", "A song of stone" are definitely not light reading, but worth spending some time on them. His science-fiction is much simpler, but... didn't get me as excited as "Walking on glass".

Non-fiction:

\- "Leading Lean Software Development - Results are not the point" ([http://www.amazon.com/Leading-Lean-Software-Development- Resu...](http://www.amazon.com/Leading-Lean-Software-Development- Results/dp/0321620704)) is the best team / organisation / project leading book I've seen. I hate most of books like that with passion, but this one is different. I can't wait for the next story they introduce in every chapter. It touches many topics useful for anyone working with even one other person and you can read it like a good adventure book - it's got clear examples, interesting quotes and in-depth but not boring analysis.

<comment><USER35> There's Iain Banks (The Wasp Factory), and there's Iain M. Banks (other books). Same guy--the latter is science fiction, and always worthwhile; the former is his "experimental" fiction, some of which I can't figure out the point of. The Wasp Factory isn't SF but is good: the story of an average British boy, his odd circumstances, and the odder resolution of his problems.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I've been into Klosterman lately

Downtown Owl (novel) Sex Drugs and Cocoa Puffs (essays on pop culture) Eating the Dinosaur (more essays)

Other Novels:

Lolita - Nabokov White Noise - <USER3>

</comment><comment><USER37> I recently went on a Ernest Hemingway bender after not having read much fiction in a while (sort of a gray area for these novels since a lot of it is based on Hemingway's experiences during the wars); I would highly recommend:

For whom the bell tolls & A farewell to arms

Out of those two, I liked _For Whom The Bell Tolls_ a little bit better.

</comment><comment><USER38> "Into Thin Air" (Krakauer) Journalist/Mountaineer account of an Everest expedition gone wrong. Read it, ponder, but know that there is some controversy. Very interesting look into expedition dynamics.

"Mountains Beyond Mountains" (Kidder) An account of Paul Farmer's work in Haiti, and later in other parts of the world. If you are interested in public health it is a great read, and may provide a fresh angle on recent Haiti <-> world politics.

"Three Cups of Tea" (Oliver, I think) Greg Mortensen starts building schools in Pakistan / Afghanistan. Adventure ensues. There's some definite political bias here but it's worth a read.

Fun summer read: "World War Z".

Unrelated, I use Shelfari [<http://www.shelfari.com/>] to organize my books- to-read, if you need an organization tool.

</comment><comment><USER39> For anyone interested in the human side of Nigerian "419" spam email, I recommend the funny novel "I Do Not Come to You by Chance" by Adaobi Tricia Nwaubani.

<http://www.amazon.com/Do-Not-Come-You-Chance/dp/B002KHMZOA>

</comment><comment><USER40> Here's my partial book list, if you look under "Favorites" you can use those as my suggestion :)

<http://books.google.com/books?uid=5646369799681106085>

</comment><comment><USER41> Some recents:

 _Surely You're Joking Mr Feynmann_ is a good read.

As is Vonnegut's _Cat's Cradle_

As is Hugh Laurie's _The Gun Seller_

And I'm just getting into Orwell's _Keep The Aspidistra Flying_ which is quite good too.

</comment><comment><USER32> I just started "The Ultimate Sales Machine" - looks really, really promising. Author gives good general advice you might've already heard before (sell to current clients, have a good training program, consistency and processes), but he actually takes the time to write about how much "pigheaded discipline and determination" a given policy is going to take to implement. It's been a good read so far, very synergistic with E-Myth for those who like E-Myth.

</comment><comment><USER42> * Go to <http://www.thinkingforaliving.org/topics/shelf>, close your eyes, move your pointer around at random , buy the book the pointer rests on, scroll down; repeat five times. You can't go wrong.

* Points of View - A Tribute to Alan Kay -- the second hardcover edition just came out, and it's downloadable as PDF at <http://vpri.org/pov/>.

</comment><comment><USER43> I really enjoyed "Grumby" by Andy Kessler. It's about a fictional (very fictional) Silicon Valley startup. Light read and people here would probably enjoy it.

</comment><comment><USER44> _How Buildings Learn_ by Stewart Brand.

It's about how the foundation you build something on top of determines its adaptability to change/new usage patterns

</comment><comment><USER45> A People's History of the United States (Zinn) [[http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States- Present/...](http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States- Present/dp/0060838655/)]

There's so much history that _isn't_ taught in school (politically covered up) and Zinn presents many of these little-known history gems. Be warned, there is a light liberal swing.

<comment><USER46> Zinn is an ideologue who picks his facts based on the social goal he is trying to achieve (imposition of a Marxist system in the US):

<http://hnn.us/articles/1493.html>:

"Objectivity is impossible," Zinn once remarked, "and it is also undesirable. That is, if it were possible it would be undesirable, because if you have any kind of a social aim, if you think history should serve society in some way; should serve the progress of the human race; should serve justice in some way, then it requires that you make your selection on the basis of what you think will advance causes of humanity."

<comment><USER47> troll much? Nothing, in any of his writing, and certainly not that quote, give any indication of a desire to "impose a marxist system". Sounds kind of like your the ideologue here. I fail to understand how relating the experiences of those who built the country you probably think you value would be such a threat to its survival.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> I've been following the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan (RIP) which is one of the most famous fantasy series of the past 50 years, and all of Peter F. Hamilton's novels, which can only be described as epic space operas. Both authors are worth reading, but be forewarned that getting through the (currently) 12 books in WoT will take quite a bit of your time.

<comment><USER15> Some of the customer reviews on amazon for Robert Jordan's later books are hilarious:

 _"Those who can appreciate great setup will really love this book. Personally, I thought the setup in books 8 and 9 were good ... but this was absolutely stupendous. Fans of total plot inertia will be in heaven."_

 _"Some other notable developments:_

 _The quality of tea has really taken a nosedive since the early books in the series, and it's starting to negatively impact the morale of our heroes"_

[http://www.amazon.com/Crossroads-Twilight-Wheel-Time- Book/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Crossroads-Twilight-Wheel-Time- Book/dp/0812571339)

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> "East of Eden" or anything Steinbeck. The art of storytelling is vastly underestimated in the startup world. If you know how to tell a good story, writing blog posts, doing marketing copywriting etc ... suddenly becomes much easier. Reading world-class fiction teaches you this skill. For a slightly geekier read: "The Glass Bead Game" by Hermann Hesse.

</comment><comment><USER50> Just finished reading "Small Pieces Loosely Joined" (<http://www.smallpieces.com/>) which is a wonderful read on why we care about the Web.

The author's previous work called "The Cluetrain Manifesto" (<http://www.cluetrain.com/> ) is also a nice read

</comment><comment><USER51> Not in any particular order, but I'd highly recommend these interesting books:

How to run a Thriving Business - Ralph Warner (the founder of Nolo book)

The Death of Ivan Ilyich - Leo Tolstoy (I read this based on a recommendation by a fellow HNer)

Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions - <USER4> Ariely.

The Winner-Take-All Society - Robert H. Frank, et all.

Gun, Germs, and Steel - Jared Diamond.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> To get things started, this HN thread from a few months ago has some good suggestions: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1226736>

As does Derek Sivers' book list: <http://sivers.org/book>

</comment><comment><USER52> logicomix - a graphical novel about bertrand russell, logic and the history of computation.

diary of a very bad year: interviews with an anonymous hedge fund manager/the big short: inside the doomsday machine - two books about the financial crisis.

<comment><USER21> If you like Logicomix and other math fiction, I highly recommend his previous book, "Uncle Petros and Golbach's conjecture".

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> I just read and enjoyed _The Architecture of Happiness_ by Alain de Botton.

</comment><comment><USER54> The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better

It charts a connection between the income gap and everything from crime to illness and under-education. Got it two weeks ago. Blew me away. Easy to read too.

</comment><comment><USER55> _When Genius failed_ , a story related to (and mentioned in) _Fooled by Randomness_.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Genius_Failed>

</comment><comment><USER56> Read Shantaram if you haven't. [http://www.amazon.com/Shantaram-Novel-Gregory- David-Roberts/...](http://www.amazon.com/Shantaram-Novel-Gregory-David- Roberts/dp/0312330529)

</comment><comment><USER57> Atlas Shrugged

<comment><USER58> I would be surprised if most here hadn't read it, whether they agree with it or not, simply because it is so famous in tech circles.

<comment><USER59> I'm going to shock you lot and tell you I haven't read it although I've heard mentions of it from hackers that seem to live by it and quote it. What's so good about it?

EDIT: Just recalled that it's a book by Ayn Rand which to me came across as a total looney at the time.

<comment><USER58> She was kind of looney (if you take what she writes at face value) but she does have some interesting ideas, which can changes your outlook on your life.

But no you don't shock me by not having read it - I specifically said that most people would have read it, which means that it may not make as good a suggestion as, something that is less well known.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> * Bouvard & Pécuchet - <USER5>

* The hero with thousands faces - Joseph Campbell

<comment><USER49> I'll see your Flaubert and raise you an "Eugénie Grandet" by Balzac. Classical storytelling genius.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, by Jonathan Safran Foer.

</comment><comment><USER62> Ishmael by Daniel Quinn--a novel about the most basic of assumptions civilization makes about humanity's manifest destiny. Eye-opening.

<comment><USER51> I had to write a book analysis on Ishmael for my Composition 110 class. I was a freshman, and it was my first year in the US. I had the worst time reading and understanding it (though I think the professor cut me some slacks and I managed to get an A in the class). I haven't re-read it ever since, bad first impression.

<comment><USER62> That's too bad--some of the most interesting parts of the book are analysis of Western religions and their common conclusions about the role humanity plays in the universe. Pretty eye-opening stuff

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Charlie Stross's Laundry novels are a lot of fun. Sort of Lovecraft meets James Bond meets Dilbert...

<comment><USER64> I'm a huge fan of Charles Stross's "Accelerando".

I also love (most) of what William Gibson has written, including his non- science-fiction stuff like "Pattern Recognition" and "Spook Country".

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis

</comment><comment><USER66> Recent favorites of mine:

Anathem - Neal Stephenson

A People's Tragedy: Russian Revolution, 1891-1924 - Orlando Figes

The Big Short - Michael Lewis

</comment><comment><USER67> I highly recommend Kurt Vonnegut's books. You should try _A Man Without A Country_.

<comment><USER68> I read Breakfast of Champions a while ago and really enjoyed it. I'll have to check that one out.

<comment><USER67> I haven't read _Breakfast of Champions_ yet, but it's on my list. _The Sirens of Titan_ is also a good one.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> 1\. The Black Swan

2\. Fooled by Randomness

3\. The unbearable lighness of being

4\. Ahead of the Curve (Its about a student's experience at HBS)

</comment><comment><USER70> Such practical and classic recommendations!

I'm just trying to make it through A Clash of Kings and Dune.

</comment><comment><USER71> Daemon and Freedom TM by Daniel Suarez. It will rock your world trust me.

</comment><comment><USER72> Coma, by Alex Garland. Choose a day when you can read it in one sitting.

</comment><comment><USER73> Just finished _The Restoration Game_ by Ken McLeod, I recommend it.

</comment><comment><USER74> Delivering Happiness by Tony Hsieh (Zappos CEO)

<comment><USER75> I'm reading this right now. I have to say, I saw Tony on an episode of the Apprentice and was left with the (apparently wrong) impression that he didn't have much personality.

However, in his writing, he comes across as humble, hard-working and brilliant. He also strikes me as someone who is a little crazy and probably a blast to hang out with.

The book is a great read and inspirational for anyone contemplating the tough road for a startup founder. It gives you a fascinating window into the mind of an entrepreneur who has built and sold quickly (LinkExchange) and then went on to build an "overnight success" 10 years in the making.

</comment></comment><comment><USER76> Good to great - Jim Collins

</comment><comment><USER77> Some books I've read this summer, which I can recommend:

\- The Facebook Effect -- well-written insider's account of the history of Facebook and its ambitions. [http://www.amazon.com/Facebook-Effect-Inside- Company-Connect...](http://www.amazon.com/Facebook-Effect-Inside-Company- Connecting/dp/1439102112)

\- The Quantum Enigma -- an accessible digest of quantum mechanics and its philosophical consequences. [http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Enigma-Physics- Encounters-Cons...](http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Enigma-Physics-Encounters- Consciousness/dp/019534250X/)

\- Flesh & Machines -- a lightweight history of robotics and some wacky speculations by MIT's Rodney Brooks. [http://www.amazon.com/Flesh-Machines- Robots-Will-Change/dp/0...](http://www.amazon.com/Flesh-Machines-Robots-Will- Change/dp/0375420797)

\- The Language of Life: DNA and the Revolution of Personalized Medecine -- a well-backed account of what is or will be possible in medicine thanks to a better understanding of the genome and increase use of DNA sequencing for prevention, diagnostic, and treatment. [http://www.amazon.com/Language-Life- Revolution-Personalized-...](http://www.amazon.com/Language-Life-Revolution- Personalized-Medicine/dp/0061733180/)

\- ... by David Sedaris -- Funny short stories. Perhaps The Santaland Diaries for something light but really amusing, and When You Are Engulfed in Flames for something darker and more well-known. Also, if you like short stories, I heartily recommend Children Playing Before a Statue of Hercules, a varied collection of short stories selected by Sedaris. <http://www.amazon.com/David- Sedaris/e/B000AQ3YUW/> <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0349119759> [http://www.amazon.com/When-You-Are-Engulfed- Flames/dp/031615...](http://www.amazon.com/When-You-Are-Engulfed- Flames/dp/0316154687/) [http://www.amazon.com/Children-Playing-Before-Statue- Hercule...](http://www.amazon.com/Children-Playing-Before-Statue- Hercules/dp/074327394X/)

\- Dreams of My Father -- Barack Obama writes candidly and beautifully about his childhood and early adulthood; it's not a political book, and it's worth reading for the writing alone. [http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father-Story- Inheritance/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father-Story- Inheritance/dp/1400082773/)

\- Mathematics: The Loss of Certainty: a chatty history of mathematics, and its perception. [http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Loss-Certainty-Galaxy- Book...](http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Loss-Certainty-Galaxy- Books/dp/0195030850)

<comment><USER13> Regarding Sedaris, I highly, highly recommend consuming him in audiobook format.

David Foster Wallace's "Consider The Lobster" is also an excellent audiobook; he figured out a way to do the footnotes via audio.</comment></comment>


Google App Engine - Migrating to the high replication datastore - <AUTHOR> http://blog.shnap.com/migrating-to-the-google-app-engine-high-repli

<comment><AUTHOR> The backend for our photo sharing app Shnap (www.shnap.com) is 100% hosted on App Engine and recently we went through the process of migrating our datastore to their new high replication datastore. If you guys are on App Engine and are thinking about migrating, I hope you will find this blog post useful.</comment>


Ask HN: Who is iamdevloper on Twitter? - <AUTHOR>

Fun question. Someone like me doesn't know who is @iamdevloper who very popular on twitter. <comment><USER2> It's supposed to generalize developers - so no one in particular. Seems to be someone who's got a good sense of humour and knows enough about the tech industry to produce satire -- you know, there are few things as vexatious as reading someone analyze comedy, so I'll stop here. He/she is probably popular due to a large number of people finding the content funny and/or relatable and retweeting it.

</comment><comment><USER3> I think that's the idea.</comment>


Challenger and Mobile Banks - <AUTHOR> https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/bank-accounts/challenger-and-mobile-banks-aj0mj7w688r5 <comment><AUTHOR> " Their future will lie in your willingness to share your spending data with businesses that have partnered with these new banks, receiving deals based on your spending patterns and behaviour."

This wasn't made clear to me when I signed up, just goes to show that banks can make more selling your data, than selling you their services.

<comment><USER2> I very much doubt that - Monzo's whole plan was to do this and they still couldn't pull it off and become profitable with it.

I think the future of challenger banks is in offering competitive services at much lower overheads compared to the legacy banks. Starling Bank is a good example of that IMO, and as far as I know they're profitable.</comment></comment>


Who Is Johng77536 And How Did He Game Twitter? - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/27/who-is-johng77536-and-how-did-he-game-twitter/ <comment><USER2> I'm horrified and I honestly hope my stock portfolio won't be affected tomorrow at morning call.

</comment><comment><USER3> twitter, meet xsrf. xsrf, meet twitter.

</comment><comment><USER4> Slow news day?

</comment><comment><USER5> sounds like csrf to me.

</comment><comment><USER6> John G raped and murdered my wife.

<comment><USER7> This is a reference to the movie "Memento", however misplaced it may be.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What's the best developer tutorial you've read? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Hmmm... not sure about tutorial. One of the best books I read when learning to program was "Effective Java". Was an awesome book about API design that would still be relevant today even if Java itself isn't exactly cutting edge any more!

Also... I recently wrote a course on Building an App from Scratch with Ruby on Rails. It still has a ways to go to be "Best" caliber. Check it out and let me know what you think: [https://www.nimblehq.com](https://www.nimblehq.com)

BTW... what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe I can help.

</comment><comment><USER3> Best course available at udemy. Udemy :[http://bit.ly/Udemycoursefree](http://bit.ly/Udemycoursefree)

[https://techtriyo.com/latest-smart-home-technologies-for- sma...](https://techtriyo.com/latest-smart-home-technologies-for-smart-home- innovations-2018/)</comment>


Electrick: Low-Cost Touch Sensing Using Electric Field Tomography - <AUTHOR> http://yang-zhang.me/research/Electrick/Electrick.html <comment><USER2> This is awesome. Does not compare to touchscreens, but wildly useful for hacking interactive real world objects. Would appreciate a DIY hardware guide from the creators and open source code for processing the signals. The full paper does have some detail but not sure if it's enough to run with.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is cool. I wonder if in addition to changing the current injection electrode, dynamically varying the resistance at the electrodes can help increase the resolution.

Changing the resistance dynamically can change the current distribution on the surface. This can be used to change the gradient around the touch location to further refine the position. Edit: clarity and typos

<comment><USER4> Well I guess you have a topic for your next whitepaper. :D

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm really excited to see electric field sensing mature like this, but I sense a potential problem with RF emissions down the road. Can this stuff get FCC class-B certification?

<comment><USER6> The paper seems to say they use 200 kHz sinusoidal waves for the field. If that translates directly into what I see in an FCC table of frequency allocations, then that is in the AERONAUTICAL RADIONAVIGATION regulated by FCC Rule Part Aviation (87) [1]. They are driving the signal at 6 Vpp (peak-to- peak), at most 0.42 mA current with the lowest-resistance spray. I don't know how to even crudely calculate radio interference from those specs, so would appreciate someone giving guidance on where to look for a start.

What worries me about this approach is the need for calibration. I don't see anywhere that indicates they've tested to see the effects of the wearing down of the topcoat and conductive spray layer upon the accuracy. It would be cool to be able to simplify a light switch installation to slap(electrodes)-spray- spray-calibrate, it would suck if I had to re-calibrate once every few years.

Now if we can figure out how to beam low-voltage, low-amperage power over building distances and through insulation, then we could remove _a lot_ of copper runs. Beam just enough low power to drive and sense these kinds of control surfaces, and control relays sitting in front of the actual devices' electrical connections.

[1] [https://transition.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf](https://transition.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf)

<comment><USER5> That's great detail, thanks for looking that up. The 200Khz wave may not be a big deal, but when you start getting strong harmonics then things really go south in your certification tests.

Once on a capacitive screen controller design I had to stick in some pseudo- randomization on the electrode PWM to avoid this coupling. It was a pain in the ass.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think there is a lot of potential for sending with electric fields. A lot of animals like sharks can basically see using an electric field. It would be amazing if we could replicate that.

<comment><USER8> I'm imagining a replacement skin that sends touch signals to the brain, so if you've lost an arm you can feel using your prosthesis. I know it wouldn't work for non-living objects, but imagine being able to regain the sensation of human touch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Didn't Disney present similar technology a few years ago?

<comment><USER10> "Touché: Enhancing Touch Interaction on Humans, Liquids, and Everyday Objects" [1] and "Botanicus Interacticus: Interactive Plant Technology" [2] used a single electrode and machine-learning classification in order to distinguish between different types of touches and touch locations.

Using multiple measurements (as Electrick does) provides much more robust tracking than these.

[1] [http://www.chrisharrison.net/index.php/Research/Touche](http://www.chrisharrison.net/index.php/Research/Touche)

[2] [https://www.disneyresearch.com/project/botanicus- interacticu...](https://www.disneyresearch.com/project/botanicus-interacticus- interactive-plant-technology/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Cute, but very low resolution. The paper describes sensing a 4x4 array. Multi- touch is possible, but fingers closer than 10cm can't be resolved. The paper doesn't say anything about ambient humidity. That will affect this approach. So will skin dryness.

It's nice, but not better than existing touchscreen technologies.

<comment><USER12> While I agree with you that transparent touch screens are currently underutilized in the sex industry, this technology will enable things beyond your wildest dreams.

<comment> _-__--- I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but did you mean to reply to a different post here? I don't quite see the relevance of what you're saying to anything that the original post covered.

<comment><USER12> Yes, OP said nothing about sex work. No, I am replying to the right post.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Can anyone eli5 how it works? I couldn't seem to tell.

<comment><USER13> How about ELI15? Touching a conductive surface reduces voltage in that area. Place sensors around the perimeter, and rotate the source of voltage to triangulate the location.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Would this be useful for robot touch sensors?</comment>