Wal-Mart Suspends a Controversial Shoplifting Punishment - <AUTHOR> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/wal-mart-suspends-a-controversial-shoplifting-punishment/ar-BBH7s4z <comment><USER3> Would this be as controversial if they money went to a third-party (i.e., not a Wal-Mart-run) charity?

The idea is something good—keeping low-level, non-violent offenders out of the legal system and saving taxpayer dollars. But it does seem to fit the bill for extortion: Wal-Mart protecting the shoplifter from the government in exchange for money.

I wonder if there's a way to get the best of both worlds?

<comment><USER4> > I wonder if there's a way to get the best of both worlds?

A non-profit first-offender education program funded by the police department and/or stores that doesn't require payment by participants would not be extortion and would have the same positive effects without the same incentives for abuse.

<comment><USER5> Why was this insightful comment downvoted?

<comment><USER3> You are aware what website you're on, right? ;)

<comment><USER5> Certainly not that one with stuff that matters!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> At a lot of big retailers try to make you sign a "confession" whether they call the police or not.

Later you get a letter from a law firm demanding hundreds of dollars or they'll take you to small claims to recoup their cost for "investigative expenses". With the promise that the amount will go up if you don't settle.

This is completely separate from any criminal charges and paying them doesn't effect any outcome of that at all. But if you don't know that you're likely to pay to get them to "drop the charges".

[http://www.cbc.ca/news/retailers-demand-shoplifters-pay- secu...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/retailers-demand-shoplifters-pay-security- costs-1.912834)

</comment><comment><USER6> > ...allegations by a woman who said a security guard at a Goodwill store in > Orange, Calif., threatened her with jail unless she paid $500 for the > education program,... The woman, Debra Black, left the store without paying > for a $2 purse she had placed on the arm of her wheelchair while she was > browsing and forgotten about,...

Jesus. I was just reading about this somewhere else, and the deal is basically that suspected shoplifters are locked in a room, given misleading information, and pressured to sign a confession which will be used against them if they later have second thoughts about paying $500 to the "education" company. These companies make payday lenders look good.

<comment><USER7> > the deal is basically that suspected shoplifters are locked in a room

I find this difficult to believe in the case of places like WalMart and Target with phalanxes of lawyers. Goodwill ... I could believe might not be quite so competent.

Target, for example, won't even let their security people so much as _touch_ someone who is literally walking out of the store with something like a stolen TV. The possibility of getting countersued is so high that it isn't worth it. The simply follow them with a camera to their car and record everything and later turn it over to the authorities if they decide to pursue.

I imagine that with facial recognition, what's going to happen is these people will get blacklisted from the stores and flagged if they try to reappear.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I thought "extortion" (ask for money and threat of legal action) was how settlements were supposed to work. Will this set a precedent and have broader consequences?

<comment><USER9> Settlements are for civil cases, not criminal. This was demanding money in exchange for not revealing evidence of a crime to authorities, which is extortion. It would be perfectly legal for Walmart to settle with the shoplifter under an agreement to not _sue_ them.

Criminal cases are the state vs. the citizen, whereas civil cases are citizen vs. citizen. (The same action can result in both types of cases.) You're not supposed to profit by inhibiting the state from prosecuting.

<comment><USER10> That's an interesting legal difference, but what's the moral difference? "Pay me to drop the lawsuit" and "pay me to drop the charges" feel like pretty much the same thing to me.

<comment><USER11> Because the state has an interest in punishing criminals whether the victim wants them to be punished or not.

<comment><USER12> In theory, but it's hard to punish a criminal in a minor crime when the victim doesn't want to cooperate.

So the end result again feels pretty similar.

<comment><USER13> Change the values there a bit and see how you still feel.

Walmart won't report you to the police if you agree to

\- pay them $5000?

\- undertake a voluntary 'community service program' at a Walmart designated location (store cleaner on the shift nobody wants at Walmart) for 20 hours per week for 12 months

Remember, that one conviction for minor shoplifting could permanently impact your life. Eg: limiting job opportunities, places you can live, whether you get to see your children in a custody dispute, whether you are entitled to vote or stand for election.

If Walmart knew someone had virtually no other option, they could press their unfair advantage.

<comment><USER12> A civil suit could easily be $5000, so what's the big difference?

And minor shoplifting is not a felony.

I'm not sure you understand my point. I'm not saying the extortion is a good idea, I'm saying it's not all that different from civil not-extortion tactics.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> This would likely be legal if they took a different approach. They can't say "pay us or we will report you to the police," because that is textbook extortion. However, that doesn't need to be said. Shoplifters know what the worst case is. They could simply say "you have the option to sign this civil agreement, which includes fees that you must pay and a non-disclosure agreement - we will not disclose the existence of this matter to anyone outside of Wal-Mart". Lawyers do this in civil negotiations all the time, with the _implied_ threat of criminal prosecution without the _actual_ threat.

I also find it ironic and somewhat disturbing that prosecutors are mentioned throughout the article essentially saying that the State should have a monopoly on extortion because of the legal protections afforded to criminal defendants. Legal protections in the US are only as good as the lawyer you can afford to hire, and if you're shoplifting from Wal-Mart, the odds that you can afford a decent attorney are about zero. A cynical person might say that perhaps prosecutors are making such a big deal about this because a decrease in shoplifting calls will result in less work, overtime pay, etc. for police, jail/prison guards, probation officers, prosecutors, etc. They don't want to stop feeding the monster.

<comment><USER15> > with the implied threat of criminal prosecution without the actual threat.

I wonder how much difference this really makes. A stronly implied threat might be just as much a threat as an actal threat.

Law isn't maths, after all.

<comment><USER14> They can go pretty far with it. I've seen attorneys actually say "if you don't pay us, we will file a lawsuit detailing all of your illegal actions, and that will be a matter of public record that may open you up to other kinds of actions by various agencies". In that instance, the person being threatened filed a police report for extortion against the attorney involved, and...it went nowhere. So they can get their point across and the law seems to be OK with it.

<comment><USER16> This might be just a case where the law hasn't caught up with what the lawyers are doing.

Extortion is "Pay me ${X} or I do ${Y}".

"Pay me $10,000 or I release these naughty images of you on the internet." is extortion.

"Pay me $1,000, or I will foreclose on your property" is not, because likely you signed a contract agreeing to such a scenario.

Now "Pay me $500, or I'll file a police report..." is extortion (at least according to here: [https://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal- law/violent_cri...](https://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal- law/violent_crimes/extortion.htm) )

Even though you may have broken the law, the extortion of money to prevent the police report is still illegal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > Shoplifting suspects at stores that use Corrective Education are shown a > video and given 72 hours to decide whether to enter the program. The video > describes a six-to-eight-hour online course that promises to explain "why > you make decisions that are harmful or illegal" and teach "life skills."

6-to-8 gours sounds ridiculously long / excessive. "Life skills", really? I smell a scam here, some "educational company" partnered with them and sell them pay-per-participant exhorbitant fees for watching their "video course".

</comment><comment><USER18> "violates state extortion laws." That's great. Hope they lock up those criminals in suits. Our country has a bad problem with letting guys in suits break the law as long as they do so while working for a corporation.

</comment><comment><USER19> I'm on the fence. It's always interesting when a victim has a say in wether a crime gets prosecuted, which often leads to a situation where said victim may use that power to encourage an outcome that is preferable to both them and the perpetrator than letting the justice system handle it in typical fashion.

I'd prefer if home break-ins don't get handled in a "Pay me $x and watch this video or we'll be forced to prosecute" BC while that may be better for both parties, it's likely worse for the rest of society.

Not sure how I feel about petty theft being handled this way.

<comment><USER16> You have a good point on the home breakins. But I think it's the way Walmart is doing it that's the problem.

Walmart should just get one choice, either a criminal charge or a civil agreement. They can't be allowed to threaten both.

<comment><USER19> Hmmm... I don't know how it should be handled, but trying to prevent Walmart from taking this couse of action seems like it would be difficult to enforce within the constrainst of our legal system. Maybe a blanket policy that if you attempt to blackmail/extort/coerse someone into participating in some arrangement of alternative justice (outside the legal system) by using the threat of prosecution, you lose your legal standing as a victim, and therefore your ability to enforce prosecution? Let's say I was raped, and then attempt to extort money from the rapist in leiu of filing charges, I certainly think I would lose some credibility as a victim, and it's unfair to society who deserves knowledge of the potential threat, at minimum. It's important to recognize that the law someone violates is a crime against society as a whole, not just a crime against the particular victim. In this situation, the law is against shoplifting in general (society as a whole can be the victim), not against shoplifting FROM Walmart, so we should be careful to not let Walmart deprive society of our ability to enforce the agreed upon consequences.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> K.. So on one hand, security guards are going mad with power, and not wise about it, threatening people and basically shaking them down. On the other hand, if there was a real educational program that worked, and it was only used on actual criminals, it could provide competition to the state's very bad recidivism rate. I think rehabilitation is one of the hardest things you can do, since you almost have to care about someone more than they care about themselves. It's why I wish Tony Robbins would run for president.

<comment><USER21> > It's why I wish Tony Robbins would run for president.

When he isn't busy pushing real-estate bubble investing in Canada and other shady financial ideas. Whatever Robbins was 20 years ago, he isn't that any longer. I suspect he simply acquired the desire to make a lot more money with his platform, which lured him into becoming a financial guru. Lately he has been talking about Bitcoin, because he's now Mr Investing Guru.

<comment><USER20> His book Money: Master the Game was really good. His in-person stuff can be really expensive. Hopefully he doesn't end up like Jim Rohn, who was great, but then spent his golden years at herbalife. Jim Rohn's early stuff was so great though.. yea.. I haven't seen Tony totally sell out though, hopefully he doesn't. Where does Robbins push bubble investing in Canada?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> My opinion hinges on how sleazy the conversations are in those rooms. On the surface, it's a cool idea to give shoplifters an option before you involve the police.

You can't ensure that the sell is universally honest, so it's always going to have that risk. Then again, from my understanding it's not as if the police are either, so I guess any public conversation about innovative solutions to deal with common minor crime is good.

</comment><comment><USER23> I wonder if there's someone in Walmart, an accountant of sorts, who sits down and runs a report on all the money they made from desperate people shoplifting stuff on a yearly basis.

Prob the same person who looked at that 0.01% of revenue been squandered away by shoplifters and thought: What if we made that a source of revenue?

Where would this perverse incentive lead? Using commonly stolen goods as lure, maybe in a spot of the store where there's a false sense of privacy then waiting for the perp at the outside and saying: "Surprise, pay us $300 for that $100 dollar thing you were going to stole or you go to jail!"

Boggles the mind

</comment><comment><USER24> 1 - making companies pay for their own property security. good. 2 - <USER2> those programs pay for themselves (so they aren't cut and put back on society). good. 3 - coercing people in a compromised state for profit. not good. 4 - Room for improvement. Yes.

</comment><comment><USER7> The fact that these programs even exist is a gigantic indictment of our justice system ...

</comment><comment><USER25> I'd think so long as the government got their tax portion of the money paid to Walmart / Corrective Education Co. and Turning Point Justice by offenders that they wouldn't care?

</comment><comment><USER26> Mercy == hate, apparently.

<comment><USER27> I'd hate to trust in the mercy of WalMart.

<comment><USER26> then let them bring charges. :-) no one's being forced to do a single thing here. it's a fake injustice.

<comment><USER27> Of course the typical Walmart shoplifter will be educated about the law and have ready access to legal advice. /s

Edit: To Rowdown... Even better HN could charge a fee for throwaways and donate the proceeds to legal aid funds. You'd be doing a lot of good.

<comment><USER26> I hear ya. I just see that angle (education) as being a tangential issue.

If Walmart's purpose here is indeed to exploit people's ignorance rather than to give them a second chance, then I'm with you 100%. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> > officials questioned the legality of asking people for money under threat of > criminal sanctions

Thank goodness -- the state is supposed to have a monopoly on violence. You can argue as to how effective that is (I believe it's commonly believed to be ineffective, though for reasons that are polar opposites depending on political views).

<comment><USER28> Holy cow, -1 points. I'm not complaining, just amazed there are enough people who really think private sector criminal enforcement† is a good idea. No thanks, the word for that is "vigilanteism". I am concerned that there is a privatized legal system and glad that at least Wal Mart has stopped.

†(private sector _civil_ resolution --arbitration -- is often a good idea when there is not a huge power imbalance)</comment></comment>


The first flying car (1959) [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMF99kJGLQc <comment><AUTHOR> Here's an awesome, well funded idea that didn't work - the AvroCar. A true flying saucer powered by three jet engines, it was built for the U.S. Army in 1959.

But it didn't quite fly. It could hover, and move around like a hovercraft, but didn't have enough lift to get out of ground effect. It was also unstable. One of the prototypes was brought to NASA Ames in Silicon Valley (it wasn't called that yet) and spent a lot of time in the big wind tunnel. It turned out that, although there are some theoretical advantages to disk-shaped aircraft, the negatives outweigh the positives as the disk gets bigger.

Around the same time, the U.S. Army was testing the UH-1 Huey helicopter, which worked, carried more payload, and was far more useful. So they canned the AvroCar program and bought many thousands of Hueys. That was the end of military flying saucers.

(The National Archives has posted good, full-length high-resolution copies of the original films.[1][2][3] Short AvroCar clips have been around for years, but they'd usually been through broadcast TV or VHS, with heavy loss of detail. Amusingly, the earliest film was classified SECRET, the second one was marked OFFICIAL USE ONLY, and by the third one, there's no classification.)

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMF99kJGLQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMF99kJGLQc) [2] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdSo31A9j_I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdSo31A9j_I) [2] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opD86VZSWpo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opD86VZSWpo)</comment>


"Indie" doesn't mean "bootstrapped" anymore - <AUTHOR> https://www.indiehackers.com/post/indie-doesn-t-mean-bootstrapped-anymore-a88300c012 <comment><USER2> I've been a full-time 'indie' computer game developer for about five years now and in the gamedev space 'indie' hasn't really meant any one thing for most of the last decade. I'm a solo guy who does art & animation, programming, writing, marketing, and so on (I have an accountant and I contracts a friend who helps with the music), working on original IP, with no outside inventment, self-publishing - which is about as 'indie' as it gets, I suppose. However, 'indie' is often applied to teams of 20+ people, sometimes either with outside investment, or who work with publishing companies. Lots of publishers are 'indie publishers' too, operations are built to work with smaller teams and budgets.

And I'm totally fine with all of that! Proclaiming that "I'm indier than thou" might get you some (utterly meaningless) clout with... well, I don't know who. The main thing is I find encouraging is there's a number of proven ways to run a sustainable software business. And that's nice to know, because if at some point I need to or want to change how I'm doing things, it isn't a one-size- fits-all scenario.

<comment><USER3> How is your game coming along? I've always wanted to make a game (like probably 50% of developers). It's just so much work I can never manage to commit to it long enough to make something.

<comment><USER2> It's coming along fine, thanks for asking! (For reference, it's here: [https://store.steampowered.com/app/654960/The_Eldritch_Zooke...](https://store.steampowered.com/app/654960/The_Eldritch_Zookeeper/))

I've been working on this one for multiple years now, commitment and the art of Finishing Things is perhaps more important than any individual skill-set like programming. Obviously individual skill-sets are important, but you could be the greatest at everything and it's not worth very much if you're _also_ very good at giving up.. In my experience, the first 10% of working on a game is great fun because you're trying different things out, experimenting! And then you have to finish the thing - and getting a decent product to market is a hard slog whether it is a video game or not.

Simple advice to anyone interested in making games - make something small and simple in a single weekend, a snake clone or something, and then go from there.

<comment><USER4> Not OP, but thanks! Willing to share any dets of your setup / stack?

<comment><USER2> Sure! The 'minimum requirements' on the Steam store page is basically my Windows computer, and the Macbook I have ;) For previous games I used to support Ubuntu Linux too, but the cost of supporting such a limited player base didn't work out for me, sorry Linux people, maybe again one day!

I use Unity (currently 2019.3, probably moving to 2020 soon, for the new v2 of the Hybrid Renderer package) and C#. Photoshop for painting with an Wacom Intuos 5 tablet (Adobe Script for slicing and exporting), Spine for animating (highly recommended! Check out esotericsoftware.com), Modo for all my 3D needs. Git for version control, Gitlab for hosting, and lots of Python and Django for the web service parts of my current game, as well as my website. Lots of Google Sheets for marketing and accounting.

And, of course, paper and pens to doodle and make notes and keep track of where everything is at and what I'm working on next.

<comment><USER5> Are you on YouTube or Twitch? This sounds a lot like what I dreamed of when first really learning to program through making (very simple) flash games.

<comment><USER2> Haha, Flash Games were where I got my start doing games commercially, back in 2009! You could license them to different arcade websites and publishers, it was pretty good money for a student.

And yes, I'm on YouTube over here: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVCz-_8VfkVwgB1WzCcuq4w](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVCz-_8VfkVwgB1WzCcuq4w)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Being independent isn't a binary yes/no thing. But people who built their business from their own savings are a lot more independent than people who took investment, whatever the source.

</comment><comment><USER7> If you have minority shareholders, you're not really independent. If you debt finance, you're still independent, IMO.

</comment><comment><USER8> When I depended on poker for my income, I always thought one should work up to the next higher-stake game by building a bankroll at one's current level. People who moved up in betting limits via someone else's money rarely survived there (the level of play tends to increase with higher stakes).

I see a fair amount of discussion about the "what is indie" angle here, but I most appreciated this article for pointing out various funding options that do not carry hyper-growth expectations. I suppose taking any money at all violates the rules of my previous paragraph, but it still seems closer in spirit than traditional VC. I don't know that I'll ever attempt to start a business again, but if I did, I would certainly look more into those options.

</comment><comment><USER9> Indie Hackers has been a great resource for a long time and filled a need. Hope in search for growth, IH doesn't lose its soul.

</comment><comment><USER10> > Jason Fried of Basecamp ... who'd somehow found a way to make millions of > dollars building SaaS apps without raising any funding.

It's a common misconception to think that Basecamp never took any investment but in fact they did from Jeff Bezos.

[https://signalvnoise.com/archives2/bezos_expeditions_invests...](https://signalvnoise.com/archives2/bezos_expeditions_invests_in_37signals.php)

That said, it helps prove the OP point that's it's possible to raise funds and remain independent.

<comment><USER11> It also at the same time is one less successful example of someone finding a way to make millions of dollars without raising any funding.

Every time I see someone using Basecamp as inspiration for bootstrappers I perceive it as very dishonest.

That said, I think it is a very good thing that there are more options for funding high growth tech startups that do not require a _"go unicorn or go bust"_ mindset of the VCs.

It certainly a great innovation (even if it's not exactly a new idea) in the startup ecosystem

<comment><USER12> > Every time I see someone using Basecamp as inspiration for bootstrappers I > perceive it as very dishonest

How far are you willing to take this?

What if he had borrowed money from his grandma? What if they couldn't afford servers AND rent so they stayed with his parents? Or they couldn't get a lease on their own, so a friend co-signed?

The reality is that we all accept some form of help with our businesses at one point or another that takes some of our stress away. You'd be searching long and hard to find people who became successful with no form of investment at all. And even if you did, what would that prove?

<comment><USER11> It proves nothing to you, I draw the lines of my perceptions to my own benefit.

I believe every bootstrapper has some kind of self-funding. So whenever I see a story of a successful bootstrapper, I assume self-funding, and I don't consider it dishonest in my perception of the story. If the bootstrapper happens to be a millionaire already, and the "self-funding" is in the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars, I don't consider the inspiration applicable to my own case, but I would probably not call it "dishonest".

All of your small-money examples look to me as in this category as both honest and applicable to my case.

One of the lines that I draw is that calling "bootstrapper" a company that received, let's say $100,000, from a billionaire in order to help with growth is dishonest in my perception.

From the tone of your comment, you seem to have the impression that I am a purist of some sort about the technical definition of "bootstrapper" and that I am policing how other people use it as some sort of crusade. You are wrong. I was sharing the filter that I use when interpreting this kind of story. I create these filters because I am a wanna-be founder myself, and I have decisions to make, decisions that are influenced by what I read about what happened to other people. I have to establish a gross probability of success with each decision. Deciding to pursue funding is one of those decisions. So when I read about bootstrappers I try to filter as honest or dishonest (also along other dimensions, as applicability).

So this search of mine of what I consider honest or not would prove nothing to you or to anyone. I don't care. It is not the reason I do it.

<comment><USER13> Basecamp would be close enough to where it is now with or without Bezos' stake. Assuming they aren't lying. The most it did was let them get a bit more aggressive on growth vs profit since they had less skin in the game and the PR received from the funding. Which would've been big but not that big of a deal back in 06.

Is Atlassian not bootstrapped to you either? Or 1Password? They both took money super late into their game or for taking money off the table. i can see saying Atlassian or GitHub aren't bootstrapped, but things are different these days. In prior years they may have just IPOed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> "Indie" has been marketed into meaninglessness like "Agile", "Hacker" or "Mindfulness". These terms usually lose their meaning once they go mainstream and become cool.

</comment><comment><USER15> It's like music</comment>


Housing shortage will bite California's economy - <AUTHOR> https://calmatters.org/articles/commentary/housing-shortage-will-bite-californias-economy/ <comment><USER2> We can't let everyone and their dog into CA. It's great CA is popular, but being too popular is can also be a problem (see Venice Italy). Why not fix up Detroit and the rust belt and fill those empty houses instead? Spread the load.

<comment><USER3> Will you be the first to move?

<comment><USER2> Let's draw straws.</comment></comment></comment>


OpenAI Playing Sonic - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FHHuRTkr_Y <comment><USER2> An updated OpenAI will be playing with a team of semi-pros (casters) on Aug 5th, so that'll be interesting to look at.

<comment><USER2> Link because I forgot: [https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/1019788033959157760?s=21](https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/1019788033959157760?s=21)</comment></comment>


95% Data-Center Cooling Energy Reduction Thanks to Fluid-Submerged Servers - <AUTHOR> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/04/9-percent-data-center-cooling-energy-reduction-fluid-submerged-servers-mineral-oil.php

<comment><USER2> If this is such a great idea, why aren't Google, Amazon, Facebook, Rackspace, etc. using it? They're really smart folks, and they have teams doing nothing but work on this stuff. I suspect that they've already considered this and rejected it because of some cost not considered by the oil-immersion folks.

<comment><USER3> google and facebook have requirements for data center reliability that are, ah, quite a bit different from most of us further down the food chain. My understanding is that google has some data centers that simply run on outside air with no provision (other than just shutting the whole damn thing down and routing traffic elsewhere) for days when outside air is too hot to use.

When you own the application stack, and when you are willing and able to handle failures at that level, there are all sorts of optimizations you can do; optimizations that are not possible if you have a bunch of individual boxes that can't go down.

Even amazon's SLA tends to focus more on the ability to bring up new nodes rather than saying anything about the longevity of your existing nodes.

As for rackspace, you have a point; they are in a space where uptime on individual servers matters. However, judging from their prices and their scale, they have industry-leading levels of margin, and they get this margin, in part, through having a good reputation. I bet that the reliability hit they'd take trying something new is large enough to scare them away from trying much anything radical in this regard. Every sysadmin knows that you take a reliability hit whenever you change anything, even if it's a good idea in the long term, and how long that reliability hit lasts depends largely on the complexity of the change.

Now, I'm not saying that oil immersion is the right answer; we've seen it talked about, tried, and we've seen it fail many times; It's got lots of problems. Someone has got to implement it well, and then make the required parts standard before it will catch on; something that is almost as difficult as implementing it well in the first place.

But the fact that google and facebook don't use it does not mean it's not useful for people with different data center requirements.

<comment><USER2> Great post! I thought about all of the companies in my list as having the exact same general problem, and I see now that's not true.

Could you elaborate on what the problems are? They are probably interesting.

<comment><USER3> I don't have any special knowledge of google or facebook. (I worked at Yahoo for a while as a sysadmin, but that was some time ago) I have maintained web applications from the hardware up, and I have run co-location and VPS businesses.

But hosting hardware (or virtual servers) that other people run stuff on is a fundamentally different thing than running an application soup to nuts.

Like I was saying, if you own the app, there are all sorts of nice failover things you can do that makes the failure of one physical bit of hardware (or even a whole data center) not as big of a deal. This means you can put less effort into keeping your servers and datacenters up, and just keep more spare capacity around instead.

If you are renting hardware (or virtual hardware) for someone else to run an application on, transparently dealing with hardware failure becomes /much/ more difficult. I mean, especially with virtual hardware it's not entirely impossible to move people off a failed server, but all the methods I know of for doing so are extremely expensive, either in terms of infrastructure, licences, or complexity. (and usually all three)

I mean, at yahoo, at one point I fucked up and took out a data center. Now, I was on pager, sleep deprived and generally not performing well, but with a few commands, I was able to redirect all traffic across the country to another data center. Sure, my mistake cost the company quite a lot in terms of additional latency, but it was better than being down, right? It would be nearly impossible to do the same with a co-location or VPS company.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Cray did this first. In the 1970's. They also did it cooler than these people will. The Cray-2 had a cooling tower which used artificial blood (flurinert) for coolant.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2>

</comment><comment><USER5> It seems a downside would be that this uses more space. The racks are mounted horizontally. Convert an old data center to this and they'd only be able to install roughly half the amount of machines as before.

<comment><USER3> Eh, squarfootage is /really cheap/ some places. Right now, it'd be much easier for me to find cheap squarfootage than cheap wattage.

Unfortunately, there is something of an inverse correlation between the cost of squarefootage and the cost of bandwidth; especially at the small end of the scale, bandwidth is /extremely cheap/ here in the caltrain corridor of Silicon Valley. Squarefootage is /extremly expensive/ so you are partly correct.

The thing of it is, though, there's fiber along nearly all railroad right of ways. Now, getting that fiber off of the railroad right of way and into your data center, that can be a rather large capital expense, and often when you get out in the boonies there are fewer players in the secondary markets; less competition means you pay more per unit bandwidth. But the ongoing cost, especially if you use a lot of bandwidth and can bypass most of the middlemen? might not be that high.

Even in Silicon Valley, where bandwidth is cheap and squarefootage is expensive, power is even more expensive. With a very small increase in capital cost I could make my own servers 8x more space efficient; with current power costs? most data centers won't let me go any more dense than I am now, so there's no point. (Depending on the cooling system the data centers use, it can be harder to deal with one really hot rack than two racks that are each half as hot.) So really, giving me half the space and twice the power would work out just fine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> As with all things in life, there are tradeoffs.

1\. Fire hazard can be higher, depending on cooling fluid.

2\. OHS regulations to do with handling the cooling fluid.

3\. Congratulations, you are now a plumber!

4\. No more hot-swapping of components.

5\. You may need exotic parts that don't break in the cooling fluid.

6\. Custom equipment may be very expensive.

7\. What happens if you can't get another batch of cooling fluid?

Liquid-cooled systems, including full immersion, are not new -- I believe the Cray-2 was the first system to do this and it was maintenance nightmare.</comment>


Ask HN: Which publications do you read? - <AUTHOR>

Hi HN readers,
I've been lurking for two months now after a tip-off from a software dev friend. Primarily my question stems from my aspiration to learn to code from scratch using sources that are reliable for accurate and helpful content.
For full disclosure, I work for several international software companies in a marketing capacity. So I am also interested to find out if our PR efforts are vindicated by your responses.
My hunch is that HN readers don't have a loyalty to one publication in particular, but prefer to source content from all over, and ideally at the source i.e. from bloggers and website press offices.
Thanks <comment><USER2> HN, The Economist, BBC News, The Guardian, Foreign Affairs, NYT, Financial Times, and a few choice subreddits.

</comment><comment><USER3> HackerNews, TechCrunch, Nautilus, Armin Ronacher's blog (although this is not a publication, its pretty regular, and his posts are good).

</comment><comment><USER4> great question. here's a subset of my RSS feeds i call "Must Read". i work in comp sci research, specifically cybersecurity R&D.

[https://gist.github.com/anonymous/1a35cdf12ccbf437b4a4](https://gist.github.com/anonymous/1a35cdf12ccbf437b4a4)

</comment><comment><USER5> hackerNews and BBC</comment>


1970s Bunker Home, 26ft underground. Complete with fake yard. - <AUTHOR> http://architecturefinds.com/picture/51136/cold-war-era-home/

<comment><USER2> > _... for up to a year after a nuclear strike_

After 30 minutes in this hell hole, I would probably walk outside and take a deep breath.

</comment><comment><USER3> Oh how the rich have bad taste.</comment>


Super-Cheap Health Tests - <AUTHOR> http://www.technologyreview.com/demo/429609/super-cheap-health-tests/ <comment><USER2> They are also working on cheap, paper based dna/rna tests( "molecular medicine"), which are really precise diagnostics for many kinds of diseases.

Wide spread molecular medicine might hold the keys to much better disease classification and in result much better treatment. And this precision could transform many parts of medicine from intuition based, to algorithm based. All those could really lower costs.

Really hope they succeed.</comment>


People on Probiotics Focus Less on Bad Feelings, Study Finds - <AUTHOR> https://www.braindecoder.com/can-yogurt-lift-your-mood-1090505524.html

<comment><USER2> I am planning to get a probiotic anyways, wouldn't mind trying out the one that was used in the study.

This will be one instance where I would not mind an affiliate link ;-)

<comment><USER3> I'm still swithering whether to go full steam ahead and try this - [https://orders.generalbiotics.com/orders/new](https://orders.generalbiotics.com/orders/new) \- however I currently use the one that Bulk Powders sell which correlates to a period of steady weight loss (that was also in the summer period when I drank more water and carried a 5kg rucksack 5 miles daily)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is a great article and study. We see more and more evidence that the human consciousness and decision making is distributed and in more places than the brain. Lots of articles in last 6 months about how our "gut" influences decisions based on bacteria, microbes, and flora.

</comment><comment><USER5> This study performs a randomized, blinded, placebo-controlled (all good) trial to determine the effect of probiotics using a self-report survey. However, the trial is horribly underpowered [1] (N = 20 per group). There's little reason to believe the differences are true effects, rather than statistical noise.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_power](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_power)

<comment><USER6> It may be true that this particular sample is too small; I haven't looked at the experiment in detail. However, just pointing out that n<=20 per group isn't enough of an argument to justify this statement. Significance is about more than just the sample size. The idea that it's impossible to get significant statistical result with small samples is a common misconception.

<comment><USER5> True. The study provides the requisite observation variances and effect sizes for this analysis as well.</comment></comment></comment>


Unathenticated Backup and Password Disclosure in HandsomeWeb SOS Webpages - <AUTHOR> https://www.portcullis-security.com/security-research-and-downloads/security-advisories/cve-2014-3445/

<comment><AUTHOR> Funniest vulnerability ever!</comment>


Apple and News Corps. "The Daily" Newspaper Hits The iPad - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcompany.com/1723317/the-daily-ipad-newspaper-apple-news-corp-murdoch-digital <comment><USER2> > _"The presenters at the launch event were careful to note the Daily isn't a > "static" publication, but that new pages can be "dropped in anytime"_

I once read a science fiction novel where the protagonist was employed doing that exact same thing and now here Apple bringing us that future!</comment>


Stripe CTF Post Mortem: A Would-Be Hacker's Tale - <AUTHOR> http://www.stephenwhitmore.com/stripectf/ <comment><USER2>
        <?php
        echo `cat ../password.txt`;
        ?>

That doesn't look like the work of a very talented hacker. Whatever happened to readfile() ?

The attack could also have been a lot more interesting if .php files were disallowed but short snippets like this could be hidden inside GIF images.

<comment><USER3> In one of the rounds the attack was exactly that, payload inside a gif

<comment><USER4> Really? Which level was that? I don't recall using such a technique, but maybe there were multiple solutions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> He didn't talk about the last level for some reason.

<comment><AUTHOR> The astute reader will also note that Five and Six were also not discussed. From the fourth paragraph, "I will be discussing a subset of the nine challenges".

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> last challenge?</comment>


21 days without a whinge - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/commentisfree/2016/aug/23/experience-my-attempt-to-go-21-days-without-a-whinge-took-me-six-months <comment><USER2> whinge = complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way</comment>


CLIPS: A Tool for Building Expert Systems - <AUTHOR> http://www.clipsrules.net/ <comment><USER2> This calls for a shameless plug to Drools. Disclaimer: I'm in the core development team :) [https://docs.jboss.org/drools/release/7.20.0.Final/drools- do...](https://docs.jboss.org/drools/release/7.20.0.Final/drools- docs/html_single/index.html)

<comment><USER3> As someone who is only recently getting into rules system development, outside of the manual, are there any other great references you would recommend for understanding rules systems like modern Drools?

<comment><USER4> You might find the CLIPS docs useful [0]. iirc, DROOLS was at least in part inspired by CLIPS. Plus the CLIPS docs are very well written as noted elsewhere.

The book "Expert Systems: Principles and Programming" [1] is also good though now out of print.

[0] [http://www.clipsrules.net/Documentation.html](http://www.clipsrules.net/Documentation.html) [1] [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0534384471/ref...](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0534384471/ref=lpr_g_1/002-8157855-8752009?v=glance&s=bo)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I only spent a few minutes with it, but highly recommend the user's guide. I thought it was clearly and well-written, and also pretty funny.

> A fact such as (duck) or (quack) is said to consist of a single field [...] > As a simple analogy, you can think of a field as a picture frame. The frame > can hold a picture, perhaps a picture of your pet duck (For those of you who > are curious what a picture of a "quack" looks like, it could be (1) a photo > of an oscilloscope trace of a duck saying "quack", where the signal input > comes from a microphone, or (2) for those of you who are more scientifically > inclined, a Fast Fourier Transform of the "quack" signal, or (3) a TV- > huckster selling a miracle cure for wrinkles, losing weight, etc.).

</comment><comment><USER6> Ah CLIPS!

There are a few moments in my life as a young programmer that I remember as mind-expanding. CLIPS was one of those moments (along with arrays, files and recursion).

It's forward-chaining (not backward, as Prolog is) so you can see the database of facts build up step by step. A nice bridging point between procedural and declarative programming.

And a foot in the door for parens-based syntax (it looks a bit like LISP) without the s-expression model.

</comment><comment><USER7> I've been using this in our Python project via clipspy ([https://github.com/noxdafox/clipspy](https://github.com/noxdafox/clipspy)) and it's been pretty nice. Clips is really REPL-centric and provides a lot of good debugging tools. It's powerful and fast. The maintainer (Gary Riley) also does a great job answering questions on SO. Pretty happy with it.

<comment><USER8> Gary was also one of the first and primary authors of CLIPS.

If I recall correctly, a summer intern in the AI section under the Mission Planning Directorate, whose name I have forgotten, developed a prototype or a proof-of-concept of CLIPS. At the time, 1984-ish, the AI group at JSC had many expensive Symbolics and Lisp Machine computers running ART. The intern's project showed that a pattern matching rules based engine could be developed in a conventional programing language for distribution to traditional cost effective hardware.

<comment><USER9> > a conventional programing language for distribution to traditional cost > effective hardware.

In 1984, C was considered a new programming language. The VAX first came out in 1977, and the Sun 1 in 1982. Traditional hardware in 1984 would be an IBM mainframe.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> CLIPS is a very neat tool with a very broad range of applications.

It is used in medicine as a diagnosis tool: [https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/64c0/672703724bd32e04b94c10...](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/64c0/672703724bd32e04b94c10254f478213bf86.pdf) [http://www.jatit.org/volumes/research- papers/Vol4No10/5Vol4N...](http://www.jatit.org/volumes/research- papers/Vol4No10/5Vol4No10.pdf)

In software security for malware detection and categorization: [https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/4724664](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/4724664)

In gaming for driving AI: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S1CkfzEHSU&t=489s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S1CkfzEHSU&t=489s)

And plenty of other fields.

It's a very good solution for complex problems where a large amount of knowledge or expertise is required in order to reach a solution. Its documentation and REPL are excellent for those who want to approach fundamentals of AI by solving concrete problems.

It also comes with several language bindings allowing to integrate it with other AI/ML platforms such as tensorflow, numpy etc.. In the past I helped few students which were trying to bring together machine learning models and expert systems to benefit from both worlds.

</comment><comment><USER11> Back in 2003 I worked for a startup that used CLIPS. While it's quite powerful and expressive, as the number of rules grows it becomes very difficult to reason about and debug them. The application logic becomes spaghetti-like and very brittle. So it's an interesting paradigm to learn about, but not very useful for real-world applications IMO.

<comment><USER12> Sounds like game logic. There was a board-game prototype a friend was working on, and I suggested using a rules-based approach for coding the game logic.

More recently, I was tempted to make a tool for the designers on Storm Casters to specify game and meta-game logic like this, but had to abandon that due to higher priorities.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Clips was inspired by Charles Forgy's OPS5 that was implemented in Common Lisp and introduced the Rete algorithm that is also used in Clips.

I didn't do much with Clips but OPS5 was a large part of my working life for years (supported commercial versions on Macintosh and Xerox Lisp Machines, extended the Rete algorithm to support multiple worlds for an internal project).

<comment><USER14> Clips was directly designed based on ART (Automated Reasoning Tool), an expensive early Expert System Shell written in Lisp. Unfortunately ART seems to be lost...

<comment><USER15> I think that the story is that CLIPS was inspired by ART's rule syntax, but developed independently and without access to its source.

<comment><USER14> I thought the developer had access to the ART software system, software written in ART and ART documentation - since that was what NASA was using already to develop rule-based expert systems?

Given that ART was written in Common Lisp and exposed a full Common Lisp inside, it would also be trivial to get large amounts of information about its implementation (data structures, functions, arglists, documentation, traces, macro expansions, disassemblies, ...). I'm pretty sure ART itself had extensive debugging&tracing tools for the rules engine.

Not having source to some Common Lisp software, says very little, when the full Common Lisp environment is available for introspection.

I wouldn't expect that ART was shipped in source to its customers. But I would expect that both ART and the underlying Lisp had excellent introspection capabilities.

[http://clipsrules.sourceforge.net/WhatIsCLIPS.html](http://clipsrules.sourceforge.net/WhatIsCLIPS.html)

> The prototype version of CLIPS was developed in the spring of 1985 in a > little over two months. Particular attention was given to making the tool > compatible with expert systems under development at that time by the > Artificial Intelligence Section. Thus, the syntax of CLIPS was made to very > closely resemble the syntax of a subset of the ART expert system tool > developed by Inference Corporation.

Since ART was what they were using.

> Although originally modelled from ART, CLIPS was developed entirely without > assistance from Inference or access to the ART source code.

Sure, it wouldn't say anything else in their position.

<comment><USER16> I would point out that the vast majority of conspiracy theories fall off the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down, but that's exactly what someone who's involved in a conspiracy would say. If you believe we had access to the ART source code or were smart enough to glean large amounts of information about its implementation, you also have to believe that we were too stupid or inept to make use of that knowledge. The crown jewels of the ART source code would have been their specific implementation of the rete algorithm and there's no way you could look at CLIPS performance at that point in time and compare it to ART and come to the conclusion that we knew anything specific about their implementation.

<comment><USER14> The points that were mentioned on the CLIPS history page were 'compatibility' and 'syntax'.

I would guess to be compatible one would need to know both syntax and semantics (what the constructs are doing and how a rule system executes the rules) of the constructs of ART. Having access to documentation and actual implementations helps with that.

I never did say anything about source code or performance. I would also not think that people were stupid - especially since they were smart enough to develop expert systems.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> For some reason I was under the impression that Expert Systems were in some way a sort of evolutionary dead end and weren't used any more.

Is this not the case?

<comment><USER18> Rule based systems can be extremely useful for certain types of problems. I'm working on incorporating a rule based system into our business code to allow easier changes to that logic by the people it affects.

As for expert systems in terms of ai, I do think that's gone by the wayside, but probably not entirely gone (ditto for decision trees).

<comment><USER19> Would you mind sharing which rule-based system you're working with? IMO Answer Set Programming is very useful for things like this. The language is small and maps straightforwardly onto intuitive ways of thinking about rules. It's closer to Prolog than things like CLIPS but really neither forward- nor backwards-chaining. It's hiding all operational specifics from you, which makes it very scalable as a representation. I think it's something many teams would do well to reach for when they take a first stab at implementing business logic in a rule-based format.

<comment><USER18> For the moment it's just a tiny language and interpreter I've been building, taking inspiration from other rule-based systems. We wanted something that'd run in our application and we're running PHP (:-/) so I didn't have too many options. (I'd really love to open source it once it's complete, but we'll see.)

I'll have to look into Answer Set Programming more as I havn't seen it before. Thanks!

<comment><USER19> Cool!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> If you need this sort of thing only embedded within a fast, scalable graph database, check out Stardog ([http://stardog.com/](http://stardog.com/)).

</comment><comment><USER21> An emscripten version (runs in browser, just one file ;)

[https://github.com/nilqed/jsXSI](https://github.com/nilqed/jsXSI)

</comment><comment><USER22> We use it in our main application. We have more than 2000 rules and with JNI, we have been able to add web services.

</comment><comment><USER12> So, I didn't really like Prolog when I had to study it for a class, but I'm generally fond of rule-based systems. Would love to try them as a way to specify game-logic.

Hmmm. I think I just figured out what I'm going to do for my next game jam.

</comment><comment><USER23> Surprised to see lack of any comments on experts systems domain from the semantic technologies perspective. Is it because both domains are disconnected (concepts-wise, tools-wise or otherwise) or because people from the experts systems domain don't see any value in semantic technologies? Or something else? A larger related question is what is the optimal strategy for integrating semantic technologies with / into AI systems (except for real-time AI, e.g., autonomous driving, where semantic approach is most likely not feasible performance-wise).

<comment><USER24> Expert systems are AI. (and some of us are salty about statistics creeping overreach on terminology).

It seems to me that HN might not be too frequented hy people who work with symbolic AI, but expert systems and semantic tools are very, very deeply connected. In fact, semantic technologies are derived from work on expert systems, and using JESS with RDF store was part of my coursework at university.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> CLIPS! It's still alive 21 years after my first experience with it!!!

Amazing!

</comment><comment><USER26> Probably better to use modern Prolog instead?

<comment><USER18> Sometimes it's much easier to state rules in a forward chaining system.

Why is it inherently better to use a bakeards chaining system under all circumstances?

<comment><USER27> Backward chaining is goal-driven, it's aimed at answering specific questions where you can prune your search space effectively. This is opposed to data- driven forward chaining where you basically keep looking at what things can be derived without having specific queries in mind. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, it depends on circumstances and use cases. In dynamic systems where there is a lot of data changes/data is fed in dynamically, backward chaining gives you a completeness guarantee whereas FC is eventually consistent (specific answer you are looking for might be not triggered yet). On the other hand, FC is useful when we want to use triggering behaviours - once a specific information is added to the system, a trigger can be executed/specific action can be taken.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I use PyKnow which is based on CLIPS!!

Is the resurgence of expert systems finally a thing after statistics-all-the- things fatigue?!

<comment><USER12> The new hotness is combining both so that your NN doesn't think an upside down school bus in a field is a rectangular flower, or a lamb in a child's arms is actually a cat.

<comment><USER29> Haha so true. When trying to communicate this historical cycle to people I have been referring to this deck lately: [https://www.darpa.mil/attachments/AIFull.pdf](https://www.darpa.mil/attachments/AIFull.pdf)

Can't wait till marketing folks run with "3rd wave AI".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> An emscripten version (runs in browser, just one file): [https://github.com/nilqed/jsXSI](https://github.com/nilqed/jsXSI)

</comment><comment><USER30> They gave a lot of IAAI talks! WOW! I gave only one, from our joint work with GM.

It looks like they were able to make expert systems useful.

Our work on KnowledgeTool might be equally useful!

After all, it appears that their work was stuck with C, and our work on KnowledgeTool was based on, was a pre-processor to -- sorry to mention this -- PL/I. But, gee, they based on C, so mentioning PL/I should not be so bad!

Our use of KnowledgeTool was to monitor server farms and networks. There in particular we were trying to do problem detection. So, in expert systems,

         When I see A and B and
         5 or more cases of C
         without a D, then it
         looks really bad --
         raise an alarm.

and, thus, have staff investigate.

And this statement of a symptom, test, for something wrong, was supposed to come from operator experience. So, broadly the idea of KnowledgeTool for that work was not to find better ways to monitor but just to encode what operators had already learned, mostly just from experience.

Hmm .... In such monitoring, we have two ways to be wrong, (1) a _false alarm_ where we say that the system is sick when it is well and (2) a _missed detection_ where we say that a system is well when it is sick.

So, we want the false alarm rate, to be called the probability of Type I error, and the missed detection rate, to be called the probability of Type II error.

Quite broadly there is a trade-off between these two rates: If we accept a higher false alarm rate, then we stand to get a lower missed detection rate.

Not all means of detection are equivalent: Some poor detectors have really high rates for both false alarms and missed detections, and some good detectors have really low rates on both of the errors.

A problem with expert systems was that we had no idea what rates we were getting or if our detectors were poor or good.

Commonly at least in principle we can adjust the rate of false alarms. That is good because (1) a false alarm sends the _bridge staff_ on wild goose chasing and (2) false alarm rate too high is a standard complaint.

Looking at the problem in a little more detail, we easily had wide, deep rapidly flowing oceans of data. So, we could easily have data on 1000 variables with the data for each variable arriving at 100 times a second. So, write some expert system rules? No thanks!

So, I dreamed up a solution, basically, right, as guess from Type I/II, a statistical hypothesis test but one that is both distribution free and multi- dimensional, maybe the first such. False alarm rate can be set in advance of collecting data, and is in a useful sense for each selected false alarm rate has the detection rate the highest possible (for that false alarm rate).

I did this work to improve on expert systems for monitoring. Yes, I published the work, in _Information Sciences_.

Ah, beating expert systems! What's in the paper is some applied math based on some advanced pure math prerequisites, especially an idea from ergodic theory. What's in the paper really SHOULD be deployed. I suspect that more could be done.

Well, the OP starts with

> Developed at NASA's Johnson Space Center from 1985 to 1996, the C Language > Integrated Production System (CLIPS) is a rule-based programming language > useful for creating expert systems and other programs where a heuristic > solution is easier to implement and maintain than an algorithmic solution.

Gee, I thought that my "algorithmeic", really original mathematical statistics, was easier than doing as well with heuristics.

<comment><USER31> What is the title of your publication? Would love to give it a read.

<comment><USER30> See my answer to your question just above!

From you, too, we want to hear what utility you see in the paper!</comment></comment></comment>


What is the best way to monetize a Facebook page? - <AUTHOR> http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-monetize-a-Facebook-page

<comment><USER2> I've found clear calls to action that lead users to a custom landing page on your site work. The key is to tailor everything to the FB experience, design of the landing page on your site included.</comment>


How the NSA obtains and uses airline reservations (2013) - <AUTHOR> https://papersplease.org/wp/2013/09/29/how-the-nsa-obtains-and-uses-airline-reservations/ <comment><USER2> This recent CCC talk demonstrates that airline reservation data is wide open:

[https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7964-where_in_the_world_is_carme...](https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7964-where_in_the_world_is_carmen_sandiego)

<comment><USER3> Somehow, that not only the NSA has it, but basically anyone, is reassuring.

<comment><USER4> I think that one of the interesting aspects of this talk was explaining that the airline companies really have no incentive to fight abuse beyond recognizable fraud.

I mean, someone could build some really interesting services on top of these holes, one I was thinking of is that for customers who do not check into their flights before a certain period of time, somehow one could get those flight codes and change the information, and then people nearby the airport can hitch the ride while everything looking good from the perspective of the airline company or even a Frequent flier miles as a service, where someone just creates accounts by automatic means, and scans for trips that don't have ff codes applied and uses "their" code for it and passes those miles to someone else for a price.

As we amass more and more data, and devices get cheaper to leak stuff, i wouldn't be surprised to see some interesting power shifts from traditional incumbents (the NSA's of the world, to more lean operations who are increasingly in a position to mine/exploit similar large amounts of information at scale).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Now I'm waiting for the story about how they are vacuuming up the output of all those license plate readers.

Meaning, there is no current such story I'm aware of. But I'm _certain_ it's being worked on. And if not by them, directly, that they are ensuring they have a feed from/to the resulting system.

We encounter little in the way of stories about all this data collection, that demonstrates these agencies' claimed restraint. At this point, you pretty much have to figure, if and when they can, they will.

P.S. Think that "domestic" jurisdiction will stop them? I'll just remind you, among other things, of the stories about just how much of the U.S. can be interpreted as being withing 100 miles of an international border. The CPB's jurisdiction within that territory, per reported documents. And the CPB's "need" for data analysis of people transiting its... "system".

I'm just speculating... But so far, it seems almost no speculation has been too outlandish to be eventually realized.

<comment><USER6> im guessing will prob just piggy-back on the system that tracks the rfid chips in your tires

<comment><USER7> well, that's disturbing.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/3kl3e9/which_manuf...](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/3kl3e9/which_manufacturers_insert_a_rfid_tag_inside/)

<comment><USER8> Seems like this was de-bunked reading the comments [1], the system would have to be incredibly huge considering the RFID tag inside the tire is only a few inches (so it is not generating a very far field - the 20 feet seems incredibly far for such a small tag).

On top of that it would be far easier to just track the giant visible license plate since we already have that technology available.

The destroying with a camera flash is legit (not because of the flash but because of what seems to be caused by capacitors in the device - light reading on this so I may not be correct) however many users point out why read that when there are much easier ways to track a vehicle where-a-bouts.

Interesting and disturbing however much more complex then just OCR!

[1] [https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/3kl3e9/which_manuf...](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/3kl3e9/which_manufacturers_insert_a_rfid_tag_inside/cuynazn/)

<comment><USER6> had just been assuming the readers were embedded in strips laid under the roadway :/

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> That NSA was tracking flight data was no great reveal. When we fly we share that fact with countless international organizations. Government boarder services. Airport secuity. Credit card companies. Insurers. And certainly the airlines. Anyone who thinks that air travel was ever private, pre or post-911, doesnt appreciate the number of information systems involved with moving people across boarders via aircraft. The data was always open to whatever organization could express a reasonable need.

<comment><USER10> just because it is this way doesn't mean we can't do better.

<comment><USER11> What would be better in this case? Should anyone be able to show up to an airport, pay for a ticket and board a flight anonymously?

I'm a pretty staunch libertarian and even I can see the benefit here. Until we reach the border-less, one-world utopia that so many people seem to be gunning for, it's valuable to know who is coming/going from your country.

<comment><USER12> > Should anyone be able to show up to an airport, pay for a ticket and board a > flight anonymously?

People can already do this when boarding a bus, boarding a train or riding in a taxi.

<comment><USER13> Buses, trains and taxis only threaten their occupants. Planes can be weaponised as missiles.

<comment><USER14> Ground-based vehicles can definitely be used as offensive weapons. Plenty of examples of people not in vehicles being injured. The truck used in the attack in Nice, France is a very clear example. Granted, it wasn't a transit vehicle, but there's no reason why one couldn't be.

<comment><USER13> There's a psychological difference between taking out pedestrians and taking out a building.

<comment><USER14> Your claim was that taxis, buses, and trains couldn't be weaponized, not that there was a psychological difference between them. A bus or taxi can be run into a building as well. (I'll grant a train is different.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The Secure Flight program isn't a secret, and already shows that every flight that originates, terminates, or flies over the US has its data sent to the US Government.

This is a bit short of what's being shown in the article, as it doesn't send the whole PNR. However, it does make it clear that data connections exist, and already share flight and passenger data...the bulk of what's interesting in the PNR.

See this doc[1] for examples of what is sent.

[1][https://www.trams.com/home/support/notice/tsa_secure_flight_...](https://www.trams.com/home/support/notice/tsa_secure_flight_program_- _gds_format_samples)

Edit: Worth noting that if you already have the PNR record locator, and the information already sent via SecureFlight, it's fairly easy to get the rest of the PNR data.

</comment><comment><USER16> The "timestamped IP address", 172.24.96.31, is in the private network RFC1918 space — I doubt that was the IP address of the end-user. :)

</comment><comment><USER17> I first heard this 13 years ago. A friend visited an airline, and had a set of cables pointed out to him: "That's the feed to the NSA".

I thought it was well known that the NSA had feeds into the airline reservation system. We know for sure that the CBP gets data from all flights which overfly the US, or which _might_ overfly the US.

There are well known stories about planes making unscheduled landings in the US (emergency, storm, delays, etc). Cue CBP opening the front doors, walking down the aisle, and pulling one guy off the plane.

"Sorry sir, you are forbidden to enter the US, and you have just done so illegally. You're under arrest".

Except for most people, we haven't cleared customs, and haven't tried to enter the States. So the rest of the passengers are "OK". Mostly.

This is known as having your cake and eating it, too.

<comment><USER18> Everything in your post rings false.

> 13 years ago. A friend visited an airline, and had a set of cables pointed > out to him: "That's the feed to the NSA".

13 years ago, that is 2004 noone would openly talk about the NSA, Room 641A was only exposed in 2006. I would also venture that in 2004 noone had or needed a direct feed to the NSA, the Internet would already do. In case you do not remember, how 2004 was, by 2000 you have Expedia, Travelocity, Priceline, Hotwire, Tripadvisor all launched. Edit: as comments below and the article itself points it out, the NSA would get your data from the GDS if it's there, what I mean here is that OP claims a dedicated line running to the NSA when it could have just used the Internet instead of a dedicated line to connect to your system. By 2004, the Internet was plenty established for that. That's all I meant.

> There are well known stories about planes making unscheduled landings in the > US

This is, in fact, extremely rare. A flight which does not start or end in the USA rarely has the need to fly over it. Europe/Asia - Central America would and not much else -- and there are very few such direct flights, mostly only to Mexico City. Even a London-Bogota flight wouldn't.

> CBP opening the front doors, walking down the aisle, and pulling one guy off > the plane.

While the previous event is merely rare this would be extraordinary and all over the news, even if not mainstream news. All the news I can remember about law enforcement boarding an emergency landed plane is about unruly passengers, not this Bond shit. So... source?

<comment><USER19> > I would also venture that in 2004 noone had or needed a direct feed to the > NSA, the Internet would already do. In case you do not remember, how 2004 > was, by 2000 you have Expedia, Travelocity, Priceline, Hotwire, Tripadvisor > all launched.

That doesn't cover airline bookings that happened via travel agent or directly into the booking system. Many airline reservation systems pre-date the internet (SABRE, for example, came online in 1964), and much of the architecture driving the airline industry is archaic (which is one reason why a system outage can have such a massive impact on flights).</comment></comment></comment>


Advice for replying to Epic's Megagrants response inquiring for more information - <AUTHOR> TLDR: 1 - How frank should I be regarding the ability to realistically estimate costs for VR software development, particularly as an independent developer?
2 - Is my response effective?
"Before we can finalize our review, the team would like to know a bit more information about your project. Do you intend to release this as open sourced?
The amount requested was not captured on the application. Is there a specific amount needed for your project? If it is above $25k we ask that you provide a high level breakdown of how the funds would be used. We have found it useful to use a phased approach."
My Reply:
In regards to open source, from the beginning I have planned to allow users to build their own scenarios, then upload them to a cloud, where other users can rate and download them.  This will allow the Fire & EMS to take the most challenging calls of their careers and recreate them in VR. Usually they are charged a premium for this type of customization.  For example, Chiefs will frequently ask how much it will cost to customize the pump panel to match their trucks. (the color/names/location of valves) They are amazed when I show them how Unreal, through features like Blueprint, can make customized experiences much more affordable. (and in my case, included with the software).
Additionally, I currently have a free "Escape From Fire" module for school aged children to learn how to escape a fire.  I have no intention of charging for it.  For convenience, here is a link to that module.
As a nontraditional, independent developer, I think it's too early to estimate the total cost of development.  Rather, I need a year to be able to work on this full-time and 6 months to promote the simulator so it can be self-sufficient (I've spent 3 years on this part-time). The budget I've requested includes a year of my current salary at the fire department and other incidentals like hardware or conferences. <comment><AUTHOR> Here is the high-level break down I plan to provide. Again, high level makes me think it should be pretty brief, considering the amounts:

Salary 127,500 Hardware/demo equip 20000 Software Assets 7500 Consultants/Tech Support 10000 Conference Exhibits x 2 10000

Total Request Amount 175,000

*this lines up just fine in excel/email draft</comment>


The theory of infectious origin of the Alzheimer's disease - <AUTHOR> https://padiracinnovation.org/News/2020/03/the-theory-of-infectious-origin-of-the-alzheimers-disease <comment><USER2> > Preclinical data have indicated that microorganisms associated with > periodontal disease may contribute to the pathology of Alzheimer's disease.

I read damage to the nasal epithelium can allow pathogens to reach the brain:

"New research from Griffith University has shown that damage to the lining inside the nose increases the risk of bacteria sneaking into the brain via nerves, potentially causing long-term health issues." ... "Bacteria and viruses, and resultant neuroinflammation, may even contribute to neurodegenerative disorders, such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases"

[https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03-injury-nose- bacteria-...](https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03-injury-nose-bacteria- brain.html)

<comment><USER3> So... I should stop picking my nose? Seriously asking

<comment><USER4> Yes, but not for that reason.

<comment><USER5> Is it because of the Danger Triangle?

If you pluck those hairs, germs and particles near the follicles can get inside and cause an infection. He described the concept of a "danger triangle," or the area on the face between your mouth and nose that's susceptible to passing infections on to the brain.

[https://www.businessinsider.com/why-you-shouldnt-pluck- your-...](https://www.businessinsider.com/why-you-shouldnt-pluck-your-nose- hairs-2016-7)

<comment><USER4> Well that and it is disgusting.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> We've gone from under $9 trillion about 15 years ago, to I'm guessing, $25 trillion in national debt.

After this one is over, perhaps we can add a few billion for research into diseases like Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, pancreatic cancer, etc ...

...and the millions that Bill Gates asked for pandemic research 5 years ago.

<comment><USER7> More is good, but the NIH alone is already spending $2.8 billion/year on Alzheimer's research [https://www.alz.org/get-involved-now/advocate/research- fundi...](https://www.alz.org/get-involved-now/advocate/research-funding) and that's not including spending from other government agencies (both US and international), charities, or pharma companies.

<comment> mark-r Most Alzheimer's research money has gone into the Amyloid hypothesis, which hasn't resulted in any fruitful results.

<comment><USER8> Disease research isn't about avoiding mistakes, it's about taking chances and exploring avenues that look promising.

Failure is essential to learning.

<comment><USER9> Tell that to the grant boards and agencies who spent over a decade refusing to fund any Alzheimer's research unrelated to the amyloid hypothesis.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm not able to access this content, but I've noticed several theories about specific chronic diseases being the effects of persistent infections that haven't been widely recognized as such.

If any of the theories are true, it means that many research efforts have been unwitting attempts at turning symptomatic carriers into asymptomatic ones.

</comment><comment><USER11> It's just sad that we've had this theory for over thirty years and continued to pursue the amyloid hypothesis in spite of overwhelming failure of treatments targeting amyloid.

My father has fairly late-stage Alzheimers and I can't help but think we'd have a treatment by now.

</comment><comment><USER12> If this ends up being true, does it lead to any potential lifestyle changes or medical interventions that could help lower one's risk of Alzheimer's? Are these infections measurable and curable with antibiotics or something, and we just don't bother doing it because there are no noticeable short-term effects?

<comment><USER13> I have a strong belief that there definitely are lifestyle changes you can make in order to lower your chances of getting Alzheimer's, and there is some support for them, although they need more research in order to confirm the exact magnitude and effect. Some of the ones which I believe are worth taking a closer look at are listed below:

– Regular exercise may delay Alzheimer's in those at high risk of disease: [https://inews.co.uk/news/health/regular-exercise-delays- alzh...](https://inews.co.uk/news/health/regular-exercise-delays-alzheimers- high-risk-men-women-628337)

– Dr. Dale Bredesen Protocol: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712873/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712873/)

– Control Hypertension: [https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2020/01/controlling- hype...](https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2020/01/controlling-hypertension- reduces-dementia-risk-but-only-if-done-early/)

– DASH diet: Healthy eating to lower your blood pressure: [https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition- and-h...](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy- eating/in-depth/dash-diet/art-20048456)

– Insulin Resistance and Alzheimer's Disease: Bioenergetic Linkages: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5671587/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5671587/)

– Alzheimer's Disease Is Type 3 Diabetes–Evidence Reviewed: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/)

Some good reading and support for the herpes / viral hypothesis is provided below:

– Alzheimer's risk 10 times lower with herpes medication: [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322463](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322463)

– Alzheimer's Disease-Associated β-Amyloid Is Rapidly Seeded by Herpesviridae to Protect against Brain Infection: [https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(18)30526-9](https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273\(18\)30526-9)

– Another interesting link: In India, people have a much lower incidence of Alzheimer's, and one of the primary reason is usually attributed to Indians eating a lot of Turmeric. It turns out in fact that one of the primary compounds in Turmeric is Curcumin, and its shown to help against herpes: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2668156/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2668156/)

Our current issue today is the we wait for things to go wrong and then we attempt to address them instead of trying to find the root cause and proactively trying to tackle the problem early. At the same time, finding the root isn't necessarily easy, and performing longitudinal studies that would confirm a lot of these hypothesis would also be extremely difficult to implement, so I don't necessarily have the solution to addressing the problem.

Some factors which I may have already listed above and which I strongly suggest you implement if you do want to lead a healthier life and prevent dementia are provided below:

– Daily exercise (both aerobic intertwined with strength training).

– Daily fasting (eating in a 4 – 8 hour window along with periodic 2-3 day fasts).

– Healthy diet: Stick to a mostly plant based diet. Eliminate high-glycemic index simple carbohydrates and replace them with healthier low-glycemic index choices (i.e. include lots of high fiber foods along with low GI fruits and vegetables). Replace bad fats (artificial trans fats and saturated fats) with good ones (fish, nuts, olive oil, avocados). Avoid highly processed foods and foods with added sugar.

– Take a teaspoon of turmeric daily (with black pepper, which increases its absorption).

I remember reading how Japan went from producing products which were garbage when it comes to quality and transforming themselves into becoming the kings of quality within quite a small time frame. The way they did this is through simple focus on root cause analysis and transforming their manufacturing processes from being reactive to introducing proactive measures and always focusing in on finding and addressing the root cause. I really wonder when medicine will start taking the same approach. It wouldn't be an easy transformation, and the incentives today also aren't exactly aligned to make this viable yet, but hopefully we see some changes within the next century or so, since the evidence to me seems to indicate that we could get a lot further by taking a look at lifestyle factors rather than the reactive measures we employ today.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Most autoimmune disorders are either infections or gut dysbiosis, which is actually pretty close to an infection too.

It's sad the establishment is taking so long to accept this. There are papers in Nature / Science showing really strong evidence for some autoimmune disorders.

See this previous thread for an extended discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21917884](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21917884)

<comment><USER15> Have the establishment really been pushing against these ideas that hard? Molecular mimicry seems to be a rather old idea, but I'm thinking that the push back is maybe more about what to do with this idea treatment wise. You've definitely done more research and reading in this area, so perhaps you could expound on how the establishment is being slow?

<comment><USER16> Extremely hard.

I was given a preliminary diagnosis for an auto immune (Sjogrens) because among other weird symptoms I put down that antibiotics would resolve symptoms for several weeks.

Doctor had noticed that people with Sjogrens often did better on antibiotics. He informed to find a rhumotogist that understood this.

I can't find any locally, and mentioning it gets me dismissed.

They have been taught that it's nonsense and they refuse to listen.

Bringing in research just annoys them.

<comment><USER17> First time I've heard of someone else with this experience - do your symptoms fluctuate with infections as well?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This is why methylene blue probably works as an Alzheimer's treatment. It's an antiviral that can cross the blood brain barrier.

<comment><USER19> Use of methylene blue derivatives for Alzheimer's treatment has been definitively ruled out.[0]

[0] [https://www.alzforum.org/news/conference-coverage/first- phas...](https://www.alzforum.org/news/conference-coverage/first- phase-3-trial-tau-drug-lmtm-did-not-work-period)

<comment><USER18> They published an article after this on it, showing good results in 2017[1] with a large author list, and they have a new trial underway[2]. Would be a ridiculously cheap therapy.

[1] [https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of- alzheimers-...](https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers- disease/jad170560)

[2][https://www.nia.nih.gov/alzheimers/clinical- trials/trx0237-m...](https://www.nia.nih.gov/alzheimers/clinical- trials/trx0237-mild-alzheimers)

<comment><USER20> I wonder how early one would need to start treatment to have an effect, and if you could somehow start it a decade or more before symptoms begin, would it maybe prevent onset all together? Since it begins 20 years before the onset of symptoms.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The original article has been removed, but you can still find the archived version here:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20200327181753/https://padiracin...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200327181753/https://padiracinnovation.org/News/2020/03/the- theory-of-infectious-origin-of-the-alzheimers-disease)

Full text:

The theory of infectious origin of the Alzheimer's disease The hypothesis that Alzheimer's disease has an infectious origin, has a long and controversial history. The data at the origin of this hypothesis are contradictory and mainly associative in nature, without it being possible to demonstrate a causal link. Interest in this theory has been renewed, however, by several recently published observations. In the section Viewpoint de la revue Nature Reviews Neurology, Ben Readhead, a researcher at the Biodesign Institute's ASU-Banner Center for Research on Neurodegenerative Diseases, joined several distinguished colleagues to discuss the idea that bacteria, viruses or other infectious pathogens can play a role in Alzheimer's disease.

First, it has been shown that the amyloid β can act as an antimicrobial peptide and that selected microorganisms can seed the deposition of Aβ in mouse models.

Second, genetic data has rekindled interest in the role of herpesviruses, in particular the human Herpes 6 virus (HHV6), in Alzheimer's disease.

Third, the epidemiological data from Taiwan suggests that antiherpetic drugs reduce the risk of dementia.

Preclinical data have indicated that microorganisms associated with periodontal disease may contribute to the pathology of Alzheimer's disease.

Finally, genetic, pathological and modeling studies of Alzheimer's disease have shown that the immune system plays an important role in Alzheimer's disease.

A hypothesis that has never been favored by researchers This hypothesis may have been rejected too quickly. For example, microorganisms do not only cause acute illnesses, in fact certain microorganisms can hide in the body for decades in latent form, causing damage intermittently or after long periods of silence.

In addition, being infected does not necessarily mean being symptomatic. For example, out of the millions of people infected with Mycobacterium tuberculosis, only about a tenth of them will develop tuberculosis. Likewise, most people infected with HSV1 do not develop cold sores so it is possible that asymptomatic carriers of this virus were often mistakenly included in the control groups. It should also be noted that many viruses of the Herpes family (HSV1, HSV2, VZV) live preferentially in neurons.

A role for an infectious agent - in particular the herpes simplex 1 virus (HSV1) - in Alzheimer's disease (Alzheimer's disease) was proposed about 30 years ago based discovery of HSV1 DNA in the brain tissue of a large proportion of the elderly, followed by evidence that e the virus confers a high risk of disease to carriers of the ε4 allele of the gene apolipoprotein E (APOE * ε4).

Shortly after the detection of HSV1 DNA, two different species of bacteria, Borrelia burgdorferi and Chlamydia pneumoniae, were implicated in Alzheimer's disease, and a third species, Porphyromonas gingivalis, was recently added to the list.

Doubts remain, however Nevertheless, it is known that an acute end-of-life infection, such as pneumonia, can cause a dramatic increase in the amount of microorganisms in the brain. They will then be detected post-mortem but that does not mean that these microorganisms are at the origin of the Alzheimer's disease. In addition, the issue of reverse causation is never really addressed: For example, clinical Alzheimer's disease can lead to poor dental hygiene and, therefore, damage to the oral microbiome.

Indeed, there are many challenges to prove the theory of microbial origin of Alzheimer's disease. A potential challenge is that each drug has a relatively narrow spectrum of antimicrobial activity. However, since a large number of microorganisms have been associated with Alzheimer's disease by a range of researchers, it would be difficult to interpret what a negative result in a clinical trial would mean, which would necessarily use a specific antimicrobial.

Another problem is the duration of the disease. We know that the underlying pathology of Alzheimer's disease begins 20 years or more before the onset of symptoms. So, how to prove that an infectious process that occurred decades before the onset of symptoms, really contributed to the disease process?

One may also wonder why bacteria or viruses would escape the innate innate immune defense mechanisms, which are responsible for protecting the brain against such an invasion.

<comment><USER22> > One may also wonder why bacteria or viruses would escape the innate innate > immune defense mechanisms, which are responsible for protecting the brain > against such an invasion.

Well there is Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis. Which is a delayed complication of measles that happens from months to decades after infection.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subacute_sclerosing_panencepha...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subacute_sclerosing_panencephalitis)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> > Preclinical data have indicated that microorganisms associated with > periodontal disease may contribute to the pathology of Alzheimer's disease.

That shouldn't be too hard to test: is the proportion of dentists and dental hygienists with Alzheimer's significantly different from the general population? It's just a homework problem for a Biostatistics course.

<comment><USER24> There are a wide variety of ways to test this, yet no significant link has been found. I see this hypothesis come up a lot on HN. It's a favorite around here.

Consider this: HN generally attracts the intelligent type of personality. What scares that type of personality most? Losing the gift of intelligence. What is the most common thing that can take that away? Dementia. How do you make yourself feel safer about such an unpredictable thing as dementia? Convince yourself that it's caused by something that can easily be controlled with modern medicine - microbes. It's not so scary anymore, is it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Aging and infectious agents are both environmental insults. The cell doesn't care so much about the difference. Result is the same.

<comment><USER15> What exactly do you mean by this?

<comment><USER25> It's not surprising infectious agents contribute to neurodegeneration. They are an insult to your body.

Much like a car rusting out over time due to salt in the winters.</comment></comment></comment>


Collection of Recent Functional Programming Talks - <AUTHOR> http://www.vimeo.com/user2191865/videos/sort:date <comment><USER2> shouldn't that be "Collection of Recent Haskell Talks" ?

<comment><AUTHOR> There's more than just haskell talks, though the recent ones are from the Haskell Symposium at ACM SIGPLAN</comment></comment>