Tsū: A social network that shares its advertising revenue with its users - <AUTHOR> http://www.tsu.co/

<comment><USER2> The more I've played with various ways to share revenue with or create economic opportunity for users, the more I've realized that people just don't care about the money. There are of course some notable exceptions to this (Uber, eBay etc), but generally users have jobs and a few extra dollars just isn't enough to motivate them to change a single behavior.

<comment><AUTHOR> People had jobs before doing youtube videos for a living.

I don't think Tsu should be seen as a way to make money (at least not in a near future) but as a way to get rewarded for the content you produce. The same content which makes the value of Tsu. Take Instagram for example, talented people post beautiful pictures which add value to Instagram. And yet they only are rewarded with likes/comments. Tsu tries to fix this.

<comment><USER3> > Take Instagram for example, talented people post beautiful pictures which > add value to Instagram. And yet they only are rewarded with likes/comments. > Tsu tries to fix this.

They get rewarded with feedback, and if they produce good art they can license it through other means. Supposedly the latter should bring much more substantial money than earning a percentage on ads displayed behind a sign-up wall (why not do like YouTube and serve both content and ads to everyone?).

On the other hand, there do exist people who produce good art but choose to not monetize it. I can understand the attitude: unless I'm sure my art is great and will be widely appreciated, any resources I spend on monetization attempts will likely go to waste, only lowering morale. How do I tell my art is great? Well, fame.

On yet another hand, there's the YouTube crowd that makes money on their art without spending any resources on monetization _or_ waiting to validate whether their art is good first. (Maybe this is due to specifics of video production? It's more engaging to consume and the barrier to entry is a little higher than with photography or text content.)

All in all, Tsu sure seems like an interesting initiative, it gives some food for thought and it'll be interesting to see what comes out of it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why can't I just give you money for a service.

I don't want ads.

I don't want you to give me ad revenue.

Just take my money and respect my privacy. Is that really so much to ask.

I will happily pay someone a yearly subscription for a simple social network that respects users privacy.

<comment><USER5> [http://app.net](http://app.net)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Good concept but with the whole referral code and profit sharing paradigm it starts looking a little bit like a pyramid scheme.

<comment><USER7> I may be wrong but a 'real' pyramid scheme works a little different.

        A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that
        involves promising participants payment or services,
        primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme,
        rather than supplying any real investment or sale of
        products or services to the public. (wiki)

So by getting more users they are getting more value (ad revenue). A real pyramid scheme works like this:

        * User 1 sells good G for $n to User 2.
        * User 2 sells good G for $n+1 to User 3.
        * User 3 sells good G for $n+2 to User 4...

Or am I wrong?

<comment><USER8> This is what a pyramid scheme is:

      * User 1 pays $20 to join the program with the promise of getting money back for their 'investment'
      * User 0 gets paid $20
      * User 1 refers user 2 to the program
      * User 2 pays $20 to join the program with the promise of getting money back for their 'investment'
      * User 1 gets paid $15 and user 0 gets $5
      * User 2 refers user 3 to the program
      * User 3 pays $20 to join the program with the promise of getting money back for their 'investment'
      * User 2 gets paid $15, user 1 gets $4, and user 0 gets $1

And so on. Users make money by referring more users to pay in to the program. The people at the top of the pyramid make a lot of money, and the rest of the people lose more of their 'investment'. No goods or services are exchanged, nothing of value is created. As soon as people stop joining, the flow of money stops.

The similarity with tsu is in the pyramid-shaped referral payout scheme, but it is not a pyramid scheme because it doesn't depend on new users 'paying in' to generate money. I don't think this kind of referral payout scheme is uncommon.

<comment><USER9> Am I correct in saying that the only difference from this and a referral program is that there is another product, such as hosting.

<comment><USER10> That's a pretty big difference. Using referral fees to bring in new business for a product with a different revenue stream is sustainable, provided the core product is a sustainable business. There is no way for a pyramid scheme to not collapse.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> A lot of for-profit companies have referral programs (which is what this amounts to), and many of them have a similar multilevel marketing component. So this isn't really anything new or novel.

What I would love to see is an social-media site that is willing to take the concept of sharing profits with its members to the next level and organize itself as a cooperative.

Co-ops, unlike for-profit companies, are entirely owned by their members, and thus any profits they make eventually go back to their members, either in the form of greater investment in the site (which benefits the members) or in the form of rebates (where the profits get divided up and distributed to the member-owners, similar to dividends in the for-profit world).

Of course, the problem with organizing as a co-op is that it's harder to come up with capital, because you can't accept outside investment. But with Kickstarter and Indiegogo and the era of fundraiser-driven product development, I don't think that's as much an issue nowadays.

An added bonus of a social network organized as a co-op is that each member- owner gets a vote -- a genuine say in how things are done -- which is often absent in for-profit companies.

<comment><USER12> check out [http://www.favorsome.com/](http://www.favorsome.com/), you may find what you're looking for

<comment><USER11> I don't see how that's at all relevant to what I was talking about. Favorsome doesn't appear to be a co-op, or anything like one. By the way, I see your only other HN activity is also plugging Favorsome. Kinda spammy?

<comment><USER12> sorry, I'm new to HN, trying to surf and learn about social networks. my very first post was about Favorsome because I found it interesting.

You're right, Favorsome is not a co-op, but since you're talking about a network reinvesting its profits back into the users, I see that Favorsome is doing the same and thought you'd find it interesting, that's all

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> On tsū, users own their content and own their network, therefore they own the royalties generated from advertising, sponsorship and partnership dollars wrapped around their content.

Additionally if any users came to the platform via a user's short code or invitation, then that user will in perpetuity earn a portion of the economics of the newly invited individual and their social network on tsū.

Right now you need an invite to join this up and coming social network. I just found a generic user like [http://www.tsu.co/FunnyImages](http://www.tsu.co/FunnyImages) and created a profile. Hopefully this catches on, then anyone in on the ground floor will have a nice passive income to build on for simply posting.

</comment><comment><USER14> So the network has definitely potential but I think that the pay will be very very minimal, as the number of users but greatly increase the revenue through advertising can not even begin to keep up.

The first impressions were very good, it is nice designed simply and clearly. For this, just not quite as many features. You can not create groups or other but perhaps Tsu has also not at all before.

We certainly have a page on Tsu created where we post extraordinary art and designs. Since we have many followers, you will receive automatically by us money if you do register on our Tsulink. Conversely, of course, just as :)

Get the link: [http://www.tsu.co/WorldsBestDesign](http://www.tsu.co/WorldsBestDesign)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> From all its (future) advertising revenues, Tsū will keep 10% and give back to its users the remaining 90%:

* 50% goes back to you directly

* 50% goes back to the people who have invited you, such as the person who invited him gets 33%, the person who invited him/her gets 33% of 33% (~ 11%), the one after that 33% of 33% of 33%, etc...

The website is invite-only. You can register here: [http://www.tsu.co/xavier](http://www.tsu.co/xavier).

<comment><USER15> How do you plan on controlling fake profiles ? For instance, if I create a bunch of fake profiles linked to a real profile and I post randomly on some fake profiles, access posts from fake profiles from the others, what could be preventing me from doing this (and keep all the advertising money to myself) ?

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't plan anything since I'm not affiliated with Tsu =)

I don't know if they thought about it but since their goal is to give back advertising money to users, doing so won't harm anyone other than the user who referred you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> IF the ones who are popular 50 cents etc gets majority of the money, what is the incentive for the lay person. The average Joe. I mean the work involved is time consuming. Take for example i spent alot of my time hiting likes, and posting random stuff on line. Some good quotes some good poems, and a few pictures. However, 5 hrs have gone by and i don't even see a penny generated. Google has the browser market and i don't get paid from them but i get excellent service and find what i need. So i asked again for the little man why switch over to tsu?

</comment><comment><USER17> Yet another centralized initiative?

Every new initiative is good if it brings new ideas.

But sadly, most new social networks we see try to convince people that Facebook is bad (ads, privacy concerns, etc) instead of convincing them that the new thing is good. IMO, this is backwards. I have never heard someone tell me "Facebook should share revenue with us". I mean come on: Facebook hosts servers, creates tons of jobs and they should now start paying users?

<comment><USER18> Sure thing Facebook has nice servers architecture and most brilliant engineers, but does FB creates any content? That's just a website, an empty shell where people upload content. And FB gets 100% of ads revenue, generated by others' content. Look at content creators like The New York Times's website, they get money through ads by attracting people thanks to their article. Plus you give up all of your rights and privacy, in exchange of a free service. I think the idea is not to "start paying users", but creating a fair platform.

<comment><USER17> That's "just" a website? You are kidding, right?

Facebook is way more than "just" a website: \- the only platform that has managed to make people share this much content \- a way for businesses to advertise and thus make more money \- the maintainer of amazing open source projects such as HHVM or React.JS

I don't think Facebook is perfect. But focusing on the privacy concerns to say Facebook sucks is just wrong. If you're concerned with your privacy, simply don't sign up on Facebook or don't share private content.

According to Wikipedia [1], Facebook makes 7.8$B and has a net profit of 1.5$B. If Facebook gave 90% back to its user base, no way it could survive with the level of quality they provide (accessibility, technical reliabilty, etc).

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Good idea, I am surprised Google Plus is not working that way. As far as I know Youtube is doing similar thing to Tsu: those who upload movies get part of the ads revenue.

</comment><comment><USER20> I earned some cents already. I'm skeptical but lets see how it develops. If you need an invite: [http://www.tsu.co/jsanto](http://www.tsu.co/jsanto)

</comment><comment><USER21> I just signed up and so far I think it is super easy to use! Here is my "short code" [http://tsu.co/YO_MINUS](http://tsu.co/YO_MINUS)

</comment><comment><USER22> If you're looking for a code use: Inkventive and my profile is available at [http://tsu.co/inkventive](http://tsu.co/inkventive)

</comment><comment><USER23> The content so far has been fantastic, and the folks who have signed on include 50 cent, Carmelo Anthony, Le Ann Rimes, Miss Universe, former Olympians, etc. Feel free to check it out at [http://www.tsu.co/invited](http://www.tsu.co/invited)

</comment><comment><USER24> Cayova tried that before (it is now defunct): [http://digitalmarketingplanet.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/cayov...](http://digitalmarketingplanet.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/cayova- a-new-phenomenon-in-social-media-security/)

</comment><comment><USER25> If you want to join, just click this site.

[http://www.tsu.co/Romrick_Sherlock](http://www.tsu.co/Romrick_Sherlock)

Then fill up your registration form. Then earn money ^_^.

</comment><comment><USER26> Check it out [http://www.tsu.co/Donnie_Darko](http://www.tsu.co/Donnie_Darko)

</comment><comment><USER27> Tsu Register is free [http://www.tsu.co/getinvited](http://www.tsu.co/getinvited)

But... it's like earn cts reading emails? u remember?

</comment><comment><USER28> Checkout [https://community.fidor.de](https://community.fidor.de)

A bank with a social community, and you get paid to answer questions.

</comment><comment><USER29> Paid 2 Surf 2.0? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_to_surf](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_to_surf)

</comment><comment><USER30> I really like the idea , I don't care about money , but I like the whole concept ...www.tsu.co/veerraj

</comment><comment><USER31> Pro tip: Apparently tsu.co has dofollow links, so you can generate quality content _and_ get quality links. Try it out: [http://www.tsu.co/seotips](http://www.tsu.co/seotips)

<comment><USER32> Profiles are visible to members only.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> For those of you looking for an invite, join here [http://tsu.co/sauravtom](http://tsu.co/sauravtom)

</comment><comment><USER34> not going to work, checkout Marc Andreessen's take on his own version of the same concept: Ning.

Edit: typo Xing <-> Ning

<comment><USER35> Why won't it work?

<comment><USER36> One issue could be that the $ argument won't work with 99% of users b/c they don't generate enough traffic (i.e. who really cares about, say, $5/month of revenue).

One way to solve it could be to pool the revenue and to position Tsu like this: "90% of revenue goes to a good cause of your choice (climate, humanitarian, etc.), not to 1 huge corporation"

Edit: Every profile would then get a "I Donated $x today" badge (visible publicly) as a feel-good engine. You could then convert the amount to real things like "I paid 2 meals in a 3rd World country today" or "planted 3 trees", depending on your choice of the cause.

<comment><USER37> > One issue could be that the $ argument won't work with 99% of users b/c they > don't generate enough traffic (i.e. who really cares about, say, $5/month of > revenue).

Thats $60 a year? A nice discount on most gadgets. Am I wrong?

<comment><USER36> > A nice discount on most gadgets

Or 1 month of a life in a 3rd World country.

What's more important to us?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> will see how this one will play out. if you have a spare minute, make me rich maybe :) [http://www.tsu.co/gondo](http://www.tsu.co/gondo)

<comment><USER8> Looks like content is only visible to users. I can understand gating the sign up to require an invite, but hiding the content as well will just kill ad revenue.

<comment><USER39> I agree, and the blurry image weight approximately 678KB (~88% of the size in bytes of the whole page). I'm sure there are less costly ways to create a fake page or to show that you are not allowed to view the page.</comment></comment></comment>


Preparing for Web 3.0 - <AUTHOR> http://blog.openconceptual.com/2007/10/education-and-creation-for-web-30.html

<comment><USER2> It's an interesting comparison between the difference between 2.0/1.0 and 3.0/2.0, but the author gives no support as to why he thinks it's education/creation for 3.0 in the future.

Do you think he's spot on, and know any reasons for or against it?

<comment><AUTHOR> Granted. My case isn't very concrete. I'm going by the very general principle that if something isn't growing -- making new connections, adapting, and creating -- then entropy starts to happen.

I don't think the web can grow much more complex without it outgrowing our ability (as both users and providers) to use it effectively -- at least not to its full potential. Therefore growth will probably have to be balanced by growth in our intuitive knowledge and competencies: education.

<comment><USER2> Can you give some concrete examples please?

To me, it seems that the average user has to know less and less about the underlying web in order to use it to do things. Perhaps you're talking about people that build tools on the web?

<comment><AUTHOR> Never mind my last comment.

I should've just said "Second Life." Those users -- at least the ones who stick around -- invest _alot_ of capital (cultural, emotional, financial, etc).

I don't know if Second Life will be the company that gets the next wave right, but I think we should look at what they (and their users) are doing, to see who'll be the big winners in 5 to 10 years.

Here's a fairly recent post on GigaOM about it: [http://gigaom.com/2007/09/26/7-reasons-why-second-life- shoul...](http://gigaom.com/2007/09/26/7-reasons-why-second-life-should- matter-for-biz-executives/)

...and then there's the story posted by pg about declining use of wikipedia:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dragons_flight/Log_analysi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dragons_flight/Log_analysis) ... and my comment on there: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=66946>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> For me the following sentence says that there is no 'bubble 2.0': "The overvaluations this time are not being made by businesspeople and investors, but consumers and users." At worst you could argue that this is a fad but not a bubble. Users cannot create bubbles, only investors can.

<comment><USER3> Also I really don't like the terms: 'Bubble 2.0' and 'Web 3.0'. Can we not wait for some industry consensus before brandishing these terms. (Thanks I had to get that off my chest).

<comment><USER2> Well, I suppose we can do what the batman movies, or Gundam series do. Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman Begins. Gundam Wing, Gundam Turn A, Gundam Seed.

Web. Web Social. Web Ubiqu. Web Singularity.

I guess most hackers don't like the term web/bubble 2.0/3.0 is because it's overloaded, and hence, imprecise. Thus, ripe for exploitation by marketers, which generally have a bad rep with hackers (sometimes with good reason).

I think the author just means "the next evolutionary step of the web" Just as when people are talking about 2.0, they just mean that the web now was far different than it was back in 1996.

<comment><AUTHOR> Nice. I like those suggestions... But wouldn't it be more fun just to steal movie titles. How about The Web Identity > The Web Supremecy > The Web Ultimatum... did I get the order right? Anyone remeber the 'Ernest' films?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> nah, I am still working on my web 2.5.1 rev C application

Yet another article about web 3.0, blah.

</comment><comment><USER5> Gee, my site is Web 2.4 rc1. Will I be ready?</comment>


You'll Hate Windows 8 - <AUTHOR> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/06/windows_8_microsoft_s_radical_operating_system_redesign_will_aggravate_you_to_no_end_.html

<comment><USER2> Apple's key insight was that touch interfaces are _fundamentally_ different than WIMP interfaces. Microsoft's attempt to have its cake and eat it too by smushing Metro on top of Windows and then forcing it down everybody's throat is just going to piss people off.

The right thing to do would be to release Metro as a tablet-only OS and gradually cherry pick the best features for future versions of Windows but they've played the trick of piggybacking everything on Windows so many times now they don't know any other game.

<comment><USER3> I've come to accept the dual personality of win8 and was going to hold off any real judgement until we started to see the hybrid laptops that have touch screens. As of this week, we've seen quite a few and it is strange.

You are touching metro and then may be thrown into classic, where touch is second class. The same shortcomings since Gates started championing convertibles become apparent at an instant. The worst of them, which im sure is configurable, was that touch+drag === click+drag. So in an instant the user is taken from a situation where touch+drag == drag screen around to one where it means highlight. I'm no UX guru, but that was startling.

Old people will hate this.

<comment><USER4> I could see a huge number of people sitting at the Windows 8 login screen with no clue how to click and drag to login. A simple floating tool tip ala 'slide to unlock' would help a lot.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > Last month, Jensen Harris, the director of product management for the > Windows user experience team, wrote a lengthy blog post in which he > documented all the ways that Windows has changed over the last 27 years—and > how people always hated these changes until they got around to loving them.

I still hate the ribbon. I haven't met anyone in real-life who likes it.

I still hate the way the control panel apps are organized, and their weird layout in Windows Vista/7. I have gotten used to it, but I still like the old way better.

The user control agent stuff doesn't bother me any more like it did in Windows Vista, but that's because it doesn't go off all the time like it used to.

I liked the new behavior of the taskbar in Window 7 (just an icon, windows grouped by programs) immediately.

I liked the way notification icons were handled in Windows 7 immediately.

I just can't think of anything I hated at first but ended up liking. Can someone help me remember?

<comment><USER6> I love the ribbon. I just got sick of memorizing arbitrary locations. I also manage IT and see even our more clueless users able to use it with ease. From a non-power user perspective its actually nice.

Not sure whats going on with this metro stuff, but the ribbon has been a pretty big success outside the group of people who have long memorized menus and are annoyed they need to learn something else.

<comment><USER5> It wasn't just the re-learning that was a pain with the ribbon (although that in itself needs to be justified by some gain, which I just couldn't find in the ribbon that hadn't been found in the graphical tool bars in previous versions). It was that lots of functions weren't even there to find! You had to customize the ribbon just to access functions I used every day.

It also took up a third of my screen real estate on my netbook, so I had to choose the 'auto-minimize' option, and wait for it to slide open every time I wanted to change a font size. What a pain...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Windows 8 looks great for phones, tablets and hell the XBOX doesn't look too bad either.

However... PC's need productivity. The current way Windows 7 works provides that just fine. It is easy to find and launch programs. You can open up many programs at once and instantly jump from one to another.

You can see everything you are working on. Its nice.

Metro doesn't appear to allow this. I really don't see why you would use Metro in a desktop environment. Enterprise won't pick it up. They won't want to retrain their workforce to use something completely new.

There is no reason to buy Windows 8 if you are happy with Windows 7. Windows 7 was an upgrade for Vista. Vista was an upgrade for XP. Windows 8 is a completely new OS. Its a different product.

Packaging Metro with Windows 8 desktop editions is fine. However the classic desktop view should be the default. You can then switch to Metro if you want and sync that up between devices or whatever. I get the unified interface across devices. I just don't get why Microsoft thought it was a good idea.

<comment><USER8> Where are you getting this crap that the Desktop is gone on Windows 8, or that it's soooo difficult to enter, that it might just be impossible.

Boot Windows 8 up in Desktop Mode. Make a settings change. Or select it as default on install.

Microsoft is not dropping the desktop or the enterprise. They make an enormous amount of money from that market and work-flow.

<comment><USER9> It seems fairly obvious that Microsoft is anticipating single-device computing and getting out in front of it.

A cell phone that can drive HDMI still needs a nice UI for the little touch screen. Apps that run everywhere might not be perfect everywhere, but it is still a nice feature.

(Perhaps 'single-device' is the wrong description, but the barriers to running the same environment everywhere are shrinking, not growing)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> An aside, but it only occurred to me with this title that MS has set itself up for a "Windows Hate" nickname for this version. We'll see if it becomes a trend..

</comment><comment><USER11> > the company considers the enormous popularity of the iPad a major threat to > its business,

Microsoft clearly has no idea why people use its software.

<comment><USER12> What do you mean? Why do you think people use Microsoft's software?

Without sounding too snarky, I think a large portion of Microsoft's users are either corporate users who are locked-into the MS ecosystem, or are users who are unaware of the benefits of other (IMO superior) OSes. I mean to say that Microsoft has benefited from being the _de facto_ default OS for most normal consumers. This is changing as OS X and Linux distros become more mainstream.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I gave the developer preview a try when it came out and I came to pretty much the same conclusions.

Something about hitting the start button and not getting the menu just feels so wrong. It seems so extreme to make the OS default to one app, full screen all the time. Maybe I'm just old school or whatever but having only one app on the screen at a time slows me down about 1000%. Maybe we'll all be using tablets soon or something and I just need to get over it?

<comment><USER14> Can you explain that a little more? I haven't played with 8 at all yet, but surely they allow more than one app at a time?

<comment><USER13> well you can go into "Desktop" mode which functions more or less like the current Windows with one major exception - that is when you click the start button you don't get a pop-up menu, instead it takes you back to the metro launch page (full screen). It's very jarring for a windows user to lose your start menu.

It feels like they want to keep pulling you out of desktop and back into the metro mode - which is basically a tablet design for using one app at a time (just like ipad, android, etc). For people who like lots of windows open at once it stinks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> "But in Metro, Windows 8's primary interface, that's not possible, because all apps take up the full screen. I could only have one bank site on the screen at a time, and I had to constantly switch between them."

I could have sworn that Win8 had an option to run two applications on a single screen in Metro. Does that not apply to two instances of a single app?

<comment><USER16> Wow! TWO whole apps?

Reminds me of when I went on a bit of retrocomputing geekery and discovered the Synergy Window Manager for the DEC Professional, which boasted of its ability to run "up to four applications at the same time".

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> "Microsoft, though, clearly expects the new interface to become the dominant way to use Windows, so I've tried to spend most of my time using it."

This is important. I've had a lot of "pro-Windows"-friends come up to me and say that Windows 8 is great, "the best Windows so far".

Yet, I only see them spending time in the "Windows 7"-mode, essentially using their computer just like they did with the previous versions of Windows. When they do that, they disregard a huge part of what Windows 8 is, and the direction Microsoft wants to take.

</comment><comment><USER18> Certainly, I may be wrong, but Windows 8 could be a wild success. Currently, there are no good tablets in the enterprise market that allow users both to read and edit documents. Windows 8 gives tablet users access to programs like Excel and PowerPoint with exactly the same level of functionality as they would on a full-fledged desktop PC. This could be a godsend for knowledge workers whose tasks really only require the computing power of a tablet, letting them forgo purchasing a more pricey laptop or desktop.

Also, promoting Javascript and HTML5 as first-class citizens in the Windows 8 environment opens the door to native app development for a massive population of web developers, which is a huge event in software engineering. Web devs will be able to create the same kinds of dynamic UIs with web connectivity as they always have but with the added bonus of file system, GPU, and other kinds of OS access. As a web dev, I'm stoked.

Yes, Microsoft is heavily favoring touch interaction at the expense of the mouse and keyboard interface. It does indeed seem like the unforgiving interface is meant to push touch screen sales, but if people adopt touch screen devices as much as Microsoft is betting, then Windows 8 will be a huge hit. Despite the mouse and keyboard UX, I say kudos to MSFT for trying to advance human-computer interaction beyond the status quo since 1963.

</comment><comment><USER19> I think Microsoft really liked the Office Ribbon, and they really liked the overall reaction that people had to the Ribbon. So they expanded the Ribbon beyond obscuring the menus of their Office suite, to obscuring the entire desktop/tablet.

The only thing a tablet OS has to do is be obvious about how to use the tablet. If you're really good, your tablet OS will be so obvious that people who successfully use the OS won't be able to explain how to use it, because they never had to think about it.

The only thing a desktop OS has to do is not break convention too terribly or suddenly without obvious benefit.

They only thing the two types of OS have to do jointly is don't interfere with each other. They don't need to support each others' metaphors any more than a bicycle needs clip pedals that accept fins.

</comment><comment><USER20> It's very clear to me what's going on here. This isn't a tablet os or a desktop os, because I believe that Microsoft is expecting the distinction between those devices to become less of a factor sooner than later. This os is intended for a mobile workstation type computer (AKA "transformer" devices). The implementation could use some polish, but the intent is that the metro ui is for the tablet or phone interface when there is no large format display or mouse connected. The desktop mode is for when the device is hooked up to a larger display and/or a mouse. However, why there isn't a clearer separation between the two interfaces is beyond me. I think this is a smart strategy by microsoft, the real question is whether they got it right. So far, I'm not convinced. That said, Asus seems to be sold on the idea.

</comment><comment><USER21> To me it looks like Windows 8 is going to be a repeat of Unity interface.

<comment><USER22> ...and KDE 4, and GNOME 3: <http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/how-do-i-turn-this-off/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I still don't understand how this was "first worthy rival" to iPad, at Feb 2012.

</comment><comment><USER23> Well I haven't tried it, but I don't think it'll be that bad. You don't really have to use Metro and stuff like Notepad++ still works fine, so I'm sure you can work just fine with it. So what's the big deal?

<comment><USER17> First of all, Metro is forced upon you as the new "start menu". That's where you end up when you boot the computer.

Secondly, you have to look at the long term consequences. This may be the direction Microsoft wants to take. Will there be a "Desktop"-mode in Windows 10?

<comment><USER6> Will it matter in Windows 10? Its like saying "Whoa, I can't install Norton Commander on this Windows95! This sucks!"

I have no idea what the future holds, but change happens. I'm not a fan of metro but as long as I can get to a classic desktop I don't care. As an IT admin I am a fan of the ribbon because its enables our clueless users to find things and not bother IT.

At the end of the day all these interfaces are designed for the lowest common denominator, not power users or develops. That's how mass software production works. We make dumb interfaces for dumb people and they keep getting dumber and dumber. The market has spoken and even Microsoft needs to cater to the app obsessed teenager and middle aged dad who thinks computers are "too hard." Well, maybe they are. Look at the malware and support mess that is the Windows status quo. Fummy how the HN crowds lambasts Windows but refuses to accept any reformation as well.

Its not all bad. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the DOS days. I suspect this is the usual tempest in a teapot that precedes all Windows releases. End users won't care and power users will get around whatever new limitation or UI they don't like.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I smell link-bait and hyperbole if I see a title and subtitle like this:

      You'll Hate Windows 8
      We may all grow to love it (..snip..)

That said - my coworkers seem to be totally happy about Windows Phone and Windows 8 (all tiles/the whole Metro UI thingy) and won't stop selling it to everyone as the best thing ever during lunch breaks. I didn't try it and I'm not a Windows user during the night. While I don't think that it'll be the right thing for me, at least I seem to live in an alternative universe where Windows 8 is anticipated with excitement.

<comment><USER25> Try actually reading the article. It is more balanced and informative than the title suggests.

I feel awkward even having to suggest to an HN'er this...

<comment><USER24> Your implied assumption about me was wrong. I did.

My non native understanding of link bait is defined as using hyperbole in a title to lure in readers. Do you disagree with that definition or with my application in this case?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> What is the "Start" in the upper left corner of all the screenshots I've seen of Windows 8. Is this a button?

</comment><comment><USER26> I miss Win98.

</comment><comment><USER27> I can see the narrative being set up already, just like I could last time with Vista and Windows 7. The first one "sucks" and the one directly following is "great", except under the covers they are basically the same. And with the first one, the one that supposedly "sucks", you get a bunch of backlash blogposts talking about all the ways it is subtly better than its predecessor and how the people slagging it are bandwagon-riding idiots. Weak.

<comment><USER28> That kind of reminds me of the Stockholm syndrome a bit. Vista was very disappointing, because users expected something good after XP, and it wasn't. By the time Windows 7 showed up, users were even more tired of XP than they were when Vista launched, and they couldn't wait for a "decent" alternative. After the low standard that Vista set, they were happy that Windows 7 was at least as good as XP or better.

But now people are not tired of Windows 7, and some just upgraded to it a year or two ago. Add that to the fact that it makes the desktop experience very confusing, and I don't see Windows 8 being very successful.

<comment><USER29> I think people are forgetting the huge performance slowdown with Vista on some hardware. This is the reason I and my colleagues said that it sucked, at the time. Yes, SP1 made it better and the "it sucked" labeled was withdrawn.

<comment><USER30> Yes, and experience is in the details. The difference between Vista and 7 is not prominent, but it is big.

<comment><USER31> Having used Vista and 7 side by side (test environment for a customer) I can say that you're spot on. It's many small things but they add up quickly. One example: network adapter settings are completely misnamed in Vista, a major pain to find them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Regardless of how you feel about the OS itself, I think Windows 8 product are going to have to either be really cheap (to compete against the Kindle Fire) or have some really amazing hardware feature like very good battery life or a better display than Retina Display (to compete against the iPad. From what I can tell, neither of the above will be the case, which means Windows 8 products will be undifferentiated products powered by an OS that is different for different's sake.</comment>


The Isomorphism Shuffle - <AUTHOR> http://doriantaylor.com/the-isomorphism-shuffle

<comment><USER2> "software is a business process that is defined with enough specificity to be implemented as a machine." Great definition.

<comment><USER3> Thanks.</comment></comment>


Edison's Revenge: The Rise of DC Power - <AUTHOR> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/427504/edisons-revenge-the-rise-of-dc-power/

<comment><USER2> I've long wanted to run DC in my house, but there's no standard. Do I run 120v, 240v, 5v, 12v? Which interface do I use? Barrel connectors, USB, cigarette lighter? If we have a large-scale movement to household DC, we'd have these things hammered out without me rewiring every appliance.

If these obstacles were overcome, almost everything in my house could run on DC. Most stuff either converts to DC internally, or doesn't care.

<comment><USER3> Check out the comments to this article. Some say there's one at 24V, some speaking from experience, which sounds sane to me (not an EE but learned these basics and hung out with a lot at college). There's a pointer to a web site in them.</comment></comment>


Cash Might Be King, but They Don't Care - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/25/nyregion/no-cash-money-cashless-credit-debit-card.html <comment><USER2> I've experienced something similar at resturants in TO recently! Not only didn't they straight up refuse cash, they asked me download their app to pay for food.

Obviously I walked out and got lunch elsewhere, but later when I was told that they sell their own currency in the app for CAD in denominations of 5. But their food + tax, is never sold at that amount - meaning, if your lunch is $10, tax makes it $11.3, you have to pay $15 in the app. If you have no intention of coming back, you loose the rest. This is such a scam.

Also what's the problem with accepting cash? It's trackless and it's anonymous - I love it. Why should everything I buy be tracked by Banks, Corps and everyone in-between? Furthermore, unlike credit, there's are no fees associated with it so it's slightly better for the seller too.

Btw if this does not give you a worry, think about this: all your expenses always end up at companies like Equifax. If them already selling it does not scare you, a leak should. Imagine if your transaction history can be used to refuse employment, housing etc. (without letting you know that's the case). Cash does not have any of those issues.

The biggest 2 main issues with cash is - what if I get pickpocketed? and the solution is to never really walk around with more than $50-100. I've been using cash since I was a kid, and I've never gotten pickpocketed. The 2nd one is tracking your expenses - but I personally feel like using cash has made me spend a lot less than when I used my credit card.

<comment><USER3> which restaurant? I've seen a few food court spots go cashless, but nothing about downloading an app.

<comment><USER2> I can't remember the name - it's near union station - Bremner / York. It's a very hipsterish place.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> That is such a dangerous trend.

I perfectly understand the appeal though. Automatic book keeping, no more cash to move around that can temp thieves, less mistakes and cons.

But for the society ?

This just get rid of another grey area, a safety valve, a space so you have margin to maneuver.

Indeed, no systems are perfect, but they will try to enforce their own rules, and have a big inertia and cost to be changed.

Having those greys area allows for people not to be crunched by the unperfect system, or to experiment with alternatives that the system would not let exist.

Without cash, kids can't mess around as much without adults knowing. But doing so is very important to their development.

Without cash, you can't pay for a service that is illegal, even if it's not immoral. Do you know that we have freaking tomatoes that are legal to grow, but illegal to sell in France ? Yes, delicious, healthy tomatoes.

Without cash, you can't finance an activity deemed immoral, even if it's legal. Because people will learn about it and make your life a leaving hell.

Without cash, you can't disappear. But what if you need to ? Do you really trust the system to protect you if your life goes south ? We are not in the movies, the cops won't post guards in front of your house because you dated a drug dealer.

Without cash, you don't have the right to make mistakes. How many of us are perfect ? I'm certainly not, and I paid for plenty of my sins. I have many purchases I'm not proud of, but I would like them to be forgotten.

Without cash, there is no black market. Which mean if I'm looking for something that is not allowed in my country (say, boric acid to kill cock roaches), I can't.

Without cash, society is less resilient. Power outage, network trouble or your card being unusable make you unable to pay for anything.

Without cash, we give way too much power to entities managing the payment systems. Card companies don't like you ? You can't pay or take money anymore. That happened with wikileak, remember ? It was not illegal in my country, but VISA and paypal sure prevented me to make a donation to them. They stopped me to use my money in a legal way because they didn't like it. This is such a slippery slope.

So yeah, cash can be misused in plenty of ways. So can be a knife. But I certainly not want my life to be limited to a spoon-only consumption.

Also, saying it will fight cash laundering is telling only half of the story. The super-rich will still be able to do so.

<comment><USER5> I love cash, but I really dislike coins. What we need isn't a cash or E-payment only, but a Hybrid. You should be able to pay with cash, and the changes should automatically be refunded to a payment system, since the retailer are highly unlikely to change their 98 or $99.99 pricing, those pennies will continue to exist.

This system and tech is already in multiple places in South East Asia. The problem is companies like to hype themselves as a replacement of cash, and most people aren't aware of the privacy concern and implication with a cashless society.

<comment><USER6> Combining cash and card payments gives you the worst of all of them. Buying things takes even longer (giving them cash, them counting it, calculating your change, giving them your payment system card or whatever, them applying your change to that) and you still have all the privacy concerns in the paper trail of what places have been issuing you change and when.

<comment><USER4> When everything works, electronic payment system are way more convenient.

But that's a big problem with our current societies: we keep trading "good for democracy" to "convenient for best case".

People use electronic voting machines, centralize all their data in the GAFAs databases, buy everything from amazon, get all entertainments from DRMized ad saturated controlled medias...

And then, when you discuss at diner about the big world issues, everybody say that "we can't do anything about it".

Well, for a start, we could live our live thinking about the society we are building instead of just what's comfortable right now.

We are enjoying a lof of peace right now in rich countries. It's not going to last forever, since nothing does (and history calls). In 10 years or 200 years, our countries will drift to a dictatorship phase. But it's not an immediate state you get to. It's a slow decent into madness.

You really, really want to have cash to have a healthy society. You need something malevolent players can't control. You need something less centralized so you can't be stopped from using it, or by spied on if you use it. At least for a reasonable small amount.

I get you need control for big sums. There is not good reason for a company or an entity to hide money transactions. But for humans ? There are a ton of good ones, and it's just being a good citizen to stand for keeping it around.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> When the service provider goes down, do the POS systems have a way of batching transactions locally and sending them later? Or are you effectively shut down in the meantime?

And are they wired or wireless? If they're running on Wi-Fi or even cellular it'd be relatively easy[1] to jam. Doesn't even have to be for too long either. Hitting a rival during the lunch rush is more then enough.

> Not surprisingly, the credit card companies, who make a commission on every > credit card purchase, applaud the trend. Visa recently offered select > merchants a $10,000 reward for depriving customers of their right to pay by > the method of their choice. A Visa executive described this practice to CNN > as offering shoppers " _freedom from carrying cash._ "

Yeesh. This reminds me of the PR messages from cable companies trying to prevent the deployment of municipal broadband.

[1]: _And highly illegal..._

<comment><USER8> No way to batch the transactions, because they need to be online to validate the card. While you could potentially batch card-stripe data for later use, (1) you shouldn't even build that capability into your POS system because it would be a major hacking vector, and (2) you can't do so with chip data since the chip needs to be there to perform a calculation with its embedded key.

You're right that disrupting wifi is easy enough, if such an attack actually became common, it's also easy to detect what/who is causing the disruption if you have reason to look for such. Or even easier to just hard-wire your POS terminal.

<comment><USER9> Offline chip and pin transactions are possible and are also used (at least in Europe). Due to security reasons they are usually only used for lower amounts and IIRC there's a maximum total amount that the chip is willing to sign without an online transaction in between. See [https://www.aciworldwide.com/-/media/files/collateral/trends...](https://www.aciworldwide.com/-/media/files/collateral/trends/emv_online_versus_offline_pin_validation_and_transaction_authorization_tl_us_1112_5058.pdf) for some additional information.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Is that legal in US? Poland for example has a law saying that cash must be accepted, refusing cash payments results in immediate fine of about $135

<comment><USER11> In the US, cash must be accepted as payment for (edit: _public_ ) debt. However, there is no requirement that all transactions must accept all legal tender. A business owner can refuse to enter into a commercial relationship with you on the basis of your method of payment.

[https://www.treasury.gov/resource- center/faqs/Currency/Pages...](https://www.treasury.gov/resource- center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx)

<comment><USER12> It's legal but I believe it requires collecting payment upfront to make enforcement practical. The bus company example is pretty good - you get on the bus and pay how they prefer or you don't ride.

If you ate at a restaurant which had a 'no cash' policy, I'm not sure how you would resolve a situation with a client who was willing to pay in cash only. Would the restaurant be able to refuse your cash and say you ate without paying?

<comment><USER13> >If you ate at a restaurant which had a 'no cash' policy, I'm not sure how you would resolve a situation with a client who was willing to pay in cash only. Would the restaurant be able to refuse your cash and say you ate without paying?

I doubt it would be too difficult to find another customer who would swipe their own card in exchange for cash from the cash paying customer... free reward points after all. (Infact many people do something similar in India, we receive a fixed allowance which is tax exempt but can only be spent on food, this is given via a special debit card or vouchers. You pay for someone else's food using the voucher and take cash from them)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> A clean, legal way to refuse service to anyone without a credit card.

<comment><USER15> fwiw they take debit cards, and there are services like bluebird [1] that provide a bank account + debit card (iirc) without a credit check.

but I agree with the spirit of your post.

[1] [https://www.bluebird.com/](https://www.bluebird.com/)

<comment><USER16> Even these services have restrictions. For instance, the service you linked to says in its FAQ that it's only available to non-minor US residents with a valid SSN and a working email account. Cash has none of these restrictions, and it's not hard to imagine scenarios where they are relevant.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Qui prodest?

It is quite apparent why CC companies offer $10k in rewards: they will keep commissions on all transactions.

Anecdote: recently I bought a used car. Initially we agreed on bank transaction, tried several banks, some have low limits so low it would take months to move money. Others wanted transaction fee as high as $200 on 20k transaction.

Gov wants to get rid of cash because of surveillance. Banks and CC companies want to be gatekeepers and tell you what you can and can not do with your money. And to pocket as much fees as possible...

<comment><USER18> Not only do they get commissions, but for the merchants, people historically pay more with Cards than with cash

[https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-science-behind- beha...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-science-behind- behavior/201607/does-it-matter-whether-you-pay-cash-or-credit-card)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> It is worrying that the US would move to a cashless society with _credit_ cards. This is already a reality in the Netherlands and other countries in the EU, but with debit payments being the vast majority, which also have much, much lower fees. Handing off 2-3% of all transactions to Visa/MasterCard is just insane.

</comment><comment><USER20> Growing up in Brazil I got used to preferring card payments over cash, I never carried more than the equivalent of 30 USD(usually around 10-15 USD) on me because of the constant danger of being robbed.

Most places accept credit cards and most of the time I carried cash for cab fare only. When Uber got started I could finally carry close to no cash on me, after a few months Uber ordered its drivers in Brazil to accept cash and was welcomed with a lot of protest from their drivers because doing so would threaten their safety.

</comment><comment><USER21> The annoying thing about cash isn't the cash, it's change. Coins are awful. They're heavy, they take too long to count, and they have no buying power. I will frequently abandon change because I would rather lose money than deal with it / not purchase things at places that have minimums or are cash only.

I understand why users are concerned about this trend, but if you're going to be working with cash you need to round your prices to the nearest dollar and take tax into consideration when doing it.

<comment><USER22> We pay cash for most non-fixed costs in our house so we collect a lot of change. We put the quarters and dimes it in one big milk jug and the nickels and pennies in another. Once every few months we take the quarters and dimes out and roll them up and that doesn't take too long. With the pennies and nickels we just pay the ~10% counting fee to Coin Star.

<comment><USER23> You might check with your bank on counting the coins. My credit union provides counting machines as a free service.

<comment><USER22> Thanks, I'll check that out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> > Visa recently offered select merchants a $10,000 reward for depriving > customers of their right to pay by the method of their choice. A Visa > executive described this practice to CNN as offering shoppers "freedom from > carrying cash."

This is and should be treated as an attack on US currency. It's not treated as such, because Visa sells its product to US gov as trackable and easy to control alternative to cash.

Visa gets duopoly for payments. Government gets citizen spending profile. Citizen gets "freedom from carrying cash".

<comment><USER25> I was floored by the doublespeak in their statement. Freedom from cash?? I already have that. This is freedom to collect fees for visa.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> I rarely use cash these days, mainly due to laziness, and I like the fact that I can use some software to track all of my transactions across accounts so can rationalise my spending habits and commitments.

Cash has that feature too but much more cumbersome to track, and comes with the additional burden of coins.

Reading the comments in this post, I can understand the reasons why people would find this trend concerning, but I'm not really sure what you can do to stem the tide. For example in the UK the use of contactless credit/debit cards used for transactions went up by 147% between April 2016 to 17 [1]

I suspect the trend will keep rising, contactless will probably soon overtake the smaller transactions (< £30) paid in cash.

[1] [http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/contactless_contactl...](http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/contactless_contactless_statistics/)

</comment><comment><USER27> After living in Germany, I can't go anywhere without cash. It's like walking out the door without my keys.

<comment><USER28> And when you're in Berlin, whenever you see your bank's ATM, you know you must get some cash. Soon you'll need it and the nearest ATM is broken, so you must spend a considerable time to find another one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> As someone not in $BIG_TECH_CITY is this something folks are seeing elsewhere or this just another one of those problems only "coastal elites" have? Since I not only use cash for all purchases, but actively refuse to use a card this is a concerning trend.

<comment><USER30> I have only seen it in major cities for now, but the trend will accelerate for all of the reasons given in the article. With chains like McDonalds replacing a large portion of the cashiers with automated ordering kiosks the next big push will be in marginalizing cash purchases and increasing the inconvenience (e.g. ten kiosks available or you can wait in a line five deep to order and pay with cash), but within a decade I can see the option for cash purchases being the exception and not the rule. It will happen much like the ongoing transition to the expectation that you will be carrying some sort of mobile device.

<comment><USER31> Once it hits the economic repressed areas, where the majority of folks don't have debit cards or bank accounts this will run into an issue.

There is a very large and growing set of folks in this nation who use cash and barter only.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> One of the problems I have noticed while using cash is the dearth of "change". In case of a digital transaction, restaurants can simply swipe and charge the exact amount. But, when it comes to cash they ask for "exact" change.

Which makes me wonder, are we running out of coins or something? Or is it some marketing tick that pricing has to be non-zero, odd numbers to increase sales and that makes tendering change difficult?

<comment><USER33> I think it's a throughput thing. Lines are long at places in midtown Manhattan. Counting out change takes longer than waiting for the transaction to clear and offering a receipt.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> horrible trend it is pretty realistic to imagine an attack that cripples major payment processing networks

</comment><comment><USER35> In France, it's technically illegal to pay more than €1000 cash for anything. Because terrorism. Though I suspect it's really because of extremely high rates of tax evasion. Anytime a worker does anything at my house, there is always the quiet option of "sans facture" which means taxes are avoided for the purchase, but also it allows the worker to pretend he never received that income for income tax purposes. There is seemingly a dual economy — an unintended consequence (though completely foreseeable) of confiscacatory tax policy. If the tax rate were 10%, fewer people would bother evading and tax revenues would logically increase (per the Laffer Curve.)

<comment><USER36> > If the tax rate were 10%, fewer people would bother evading and tax revenues > would logically increase (per the Laffer Curve.)

No, they don't logically increase. We just tried that experiment in Kansas, and it failed badly. They ended up reversing tax cuts since revenue took a beating.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Don't credit card companies charge a fee, which you can avoid by accepting cash? Is that charge usually worth avoiding the hassle of handling cash?</comment>


Treatment of 5 Critically Ill Patients with Covid-19 with Convalescent Plasma - <AUTHOR> https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763983 <comment><USER2>
      Viral loads also decreased and *became negative* within 12 days

How does _viral load_ become _negative_? Do they subtract antibody count from virus count?

<comment><USER3> I think they mean negative as in "not positive" (for virus).</comment></comment>


Show HN: Meatshields – A free, online, turn-based strategy game - <AUTHOR> I made an in-browser game called Meatshields (https://meatshields.com) which allows players to play a turn-based strategy game against many different players simultaneously.
The game is heavily inspired by Advance Wars and I wanted to give people the multiplayer experience I loved from my childhood. I couldn't find an online version of the gameplay that I really loved (Advance Wars By Web (AWBW) is FANTASTIC, but there are actually a few gameplay mechanics in Advance Wars that I take issue with that I wanted to try to balance myself), so I decided to make my own.
It's still pretty rough around the edges in some aspects but the game is fully playable and has a tutorial and optional AI opponents if you don't want to fight real humans.
Right now it's just the ground units that have been slightly rebalanced, but a lot of the other great features of those games have been included. <comment><USER2> Guest mode (even view only) will be nice. Mandatory registration is not good.

</comment><comment><USER3> The link [https://meatshields.com](https://meatshields.com) doesn't seem to load (ERR_TIMED_OUT)

Receiving too many visitors?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, a lot more than I was expecting which was probably super naive of me

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'll have to take a look at this later. It kind of looks like a more strategic take on agar.io?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Oh wow, the poor server is having trouble handling the new traffic! Thanks for checking it out though! Will try to resolve asap</comment>


Saudi Aramco made a $111bn profit in 2018 - <AUTHOR> https://www.economist.com/business/2019/04/06/saudi-aramco-made-a-111bn-profit-in-2018 <comment><USER2> Wow! I wonder what they'll do with all that</comment>


Ask HN: What's the best way to learn accounting for founders? - <AUTHOR> For those who never took an accounting course or worked in accounting, how did you learn, at least to the point you got comfortable with running a business? <comment><USER2> Find a SaaS services which sells accounting. We have two in my region and they integrate into our financial and tax systems and automate most tasks, to the point where you'll probably never need an accountant. Even if you do, that's a service they sell as an extra.

If such a thing doesn't exist in your country, build it before someone else does.</comment>


Why Our Mental Health Takes a Village - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-our-mental-health-takes-a-village-1516640136 <comment><AUTHOR> I'm a big fan of this concept: an essential element to resilience is to have a strong support structure, ideally friends, or people who are going through a similar thing.

In that vein - shameless plug:

I've been working on a service (www.campfire.care) to build peer support groups for any focus. Groups of 5-10 people with the same issue meet regularly via video and stay connected via chat.

The idea is that we are fundamentally social creatures, and struggling with a challenge alone is unhealthy. Peer support can be really effective + inexpensive, an is a largely untapped resource

Would love any thoughts / feedback!</comment>


Engine Yard Releases Rails Development Directory source code - <AUTHOR> http://ostatic.com/blog/engine-yard-releases-source-code-to-its-rails-development-directory

<comment><USER2> The link to the source code (omitted in the article) is <http://github.com/engineyard/rails_dev_directory></comment>


Google's "iLost" Motorola ad faked an address to "lose" iOS 6 Maps - <AUTHOR> http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/27/googles-ilost-motorola-ad-faked-an-address-to-lose-ios-6-maps

<comment><USER2> Why does Apple Insider continually use "Google" in this story instead of Motorola Mobility. Yes, Google owns them but they are still their own entity. It's silly to suggest that since a company owns another company that they oversee everything that company does. I think it's fair to say "Google's Motorola Mobility", but if you just read this article you would think that Google itself was behind the advertising campaign.

<comment><USER3> If Google owns the entity then Google better be behind these campaigns

<comment><USER2> Have you never worked for a large corporation that owned or was owned by another entity. I have and I can tell you that while we were owned by someone else we still operated as an individual company. Their may have been some changes, but day to day operations were very much unchanged.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Just because a piece of land doesn't have a building on it (even if it isn't currently legally buildable) doesn't mean its address "doesn't exist". New York City is glad to point you at the address: [http://gis.nyc.gov/dcp/at/f1.jsp?submit=true&house_nbr=3...](http://gis.nyc.gov/dcp/at/f1.jsp?submit=true&house_nbr=315&street_name=e+15th+st&boro=1)

<comment><USER4> Likewise, the stretch of "E 15th St." in Brooklyn is actually named "Marlborough Rd." on the ground in the stretch where #315 is located: [https://maps.google.com/maps?q=315+E+15th+St,+Flatbush+-+Dit...](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=315+E+15th+St,+Flatbush+-+Ditmas+Park,+New+York,+NY&hl=en&ll=40.641141,-73.964413&spn=0.00556,0.011319&sll=40.641638,-73.952494&sspn=0.044483,0.090551&oq=315+e+15th+st+flatbush+&gl=us&hnear=315+15th+St,+Brooklyn,+Kings,+New+York+11215&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.64122,-73.964431&panoid=aZqAgwpPE- FX0xIFYhHMWw&cbp=12,206.68,,2,-7.76)

It does look like the city understands the alternate name, not that that'd help you when you're out looking at street signs: [http://gis.nyc.gov/dcp/at/f1.jsp?submit=true&house_nbr=3...](http://gis.nyc.gov/dcp/at/f1.jsp?submit=true&house_nbr=315&street_name=e+15th+st&boro=3)

<comment><USER3> Just checked and Bing gets it too!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Errata to the writer: the hotel name you could not locate in Sapporo is written in kana, specifically katakana, one of the four distinct alphabet and glyph systems the Japanese written language requires.

Only the name of the city of Sapporo is written in kanji as you suggest.

</comment><comment><USER6> Are we sure the Apple hasn't fixed this since the release? I know people were complaining about getting sent to Brooklyn for what should be Manhattan addresses.

>So why would anyone actually be "looking for 315 E 15th" in New York? The only reasonable reason would be to locate an actual address that does exist in Brooklyn

I'd be really surprised if Apple is checking whether particular street numbers are assigned when it is finding their location. That seems very dependent on iffy data. In fact, I just checked it, and it will gladly locate an address past the last number on a street, and just put the number at the end. (If you get really crazy with the number, it will say 'Approximate Location') Google does the same thing.

</comment><comment><USER7> Why fake a location on a flawed map? Was the goal just to get caught in doing that? It seems a bit silly to do something like that since Apple Maps is in such a bad shape.

<comment><USER8> All they had to try was "53 and 3". Apparently the Ramones were singing about Singapore :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> You know "Sequences and screen images simulated"?

Know why that is on most cell phone ads?

Because other manufacturers complained of deceptive practices in advertising when Apple would talk of how easy (and quick) it was to do something on the iPhone compared to other phones...

<comment><USER10> Actually that message was present long before Apple was popular. Digital images are always super-imposed onto devices after filming because the camera picks up the actual device screen as somewhat washed out.

I do love the anti-Apple explanation you have concocted from thin air though. Plausible enough that some might buy it. However most on HN won't buy it because they aren't 12.

<comment><USER9> One apology: "Sequences shortened".

And, no - the 3GS was targeted for a class action:

[http://www.wireless- weblog.com/50226711/the_iphone_3g_class_...](http://www.wireless- weblog.com/50226711/the_iphone_3g_class_action_lawsuit.php)

"Twice as fast at half the price"

The venerable 37S acknowledged that, as a result, the 3GS ads started including that phrase.

[http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1328-apple-iphone-ad- sequence...](http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1328-apple-iphone-ad-sequence- shortened)

[http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/03/30/siri-la-suit-fake- ad...](http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/03/30/siri-la-suit-fake-advertising/)

But nice pro-Apple shilling to make me sound like the bad guy.

\-- signed, an iPhone 4, 4S, iPad 3, 2G nano, 160GB classic iPod owner.

<comment><USER10> > One apology: "Sequences shortened".

Sorry, you're altering to your entire point from start to finish with this 'minor' correction? Had you actually said "Sequences shortened" I wouldn't have replied. However you didn't. You said: "Sequences and screen images simulated" a different phrase that appears in ALL commercials that show a screen on camera.

> But nice pro-Apple shilling to make me sound like the bad guy.

Two ways to look at this:

1\. Either you intentionally lied, so you're just a prick trying in vain to save some face.

2\. It was a genuine mistake, in which case _bravo_ on this humble concession.

<comment><USER9> "Sorry, you're altering to your entire point from start to finish with this 'minor' correction?"

Granted, I can see your point, definitely.

The next sentence in my original post, though, referred directly to my intent: complaints that the ad deceived as to how "easy (and quick) it was to do something on the iPhone" versus reality.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Technical Debt in Machine Learning Systems (2015) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://papers.nips.cc/paper/5656-hidden-technical-debt-in-machine-learning-systems.pdf <comment><USER2> The combination of glue code and pipeline jungles are, along with feature engineering, one of the biggest pain points we've observed in users. This stuff gets copied and pasted everywhere, turns unmaintainable, and then is next to impossible to optimize.

It's as if a lot of ML framework authors believe that most users are researchers... in reality, data is rarely clean, rarely in the right format, and usually needs to be intermingled and transformed with other data before it can be useful.

<comment><USER3> Part of the problem is that if you gave 20 developers/data scientists/ml engineers the same the set of data and asked them the do data prep and feature engineering, you'd probably have them come back with 20 different approaches.

To avoid pipeline jungles, teams need to agree to certain API's that their data processing code will follow e.g scikit-learn helped many people standardized around fit/predict/transform for their machine learning algorithms. In the future, I expect we'll see this expand to other parts of the process, such as feature engineering.

Towards that goal, I work on an open source library trying to do this for feature engineering called Featuretools. You can check it out here: [https://github.com/FeatureLabs/featuretools/](https://github.com/FeatureLabs/featuretools/)

<comment><USER4> AutoNormalize (part of FeatureTools, to those unfamiliar) is one of those most useful libraries I've used in awhile.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This seems like a very useful framework to consider ML systems in.

The thing about an ML system as such is that such a system is intended to turn big mounds of data into a predictions/classification without a human having to directly considered the multitude of questions otherwise addressed in large scale software design. IE, a multitude of boundaries and criteria are replaced by one criteria - "it works". The thing is that this set of boundaries and criteria still exists even if they individual setting the system considers the situation solved. This manifests both as the world changing over time and as other people not being perhaps as satisfied with the results of the system as those who created it, this being just two potential gotchas.

</comment><comment><USER6> YNews [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17341128](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17341128)</comment>


Show HN: I made a minimalist spaced repetition tool - <AUTHOR> https://memordo.com <comment><USER2> Theory / 2 Cents: don't just work on a GUI for spaced repetition cards, invent an open file format for spaced repetition (perhaps an XML plus an schema, or a JSON based file format, a subset of HTML or markdown, etc...).

The idea is that you create a file format spec, perhaps even some open source libraries to operate on the file format. And then you sell a really nice GUI for editing that (perhaps a web page, perhaps a mobile app, perhaps both?).

If your format is good people will use it, perhaps create new editors for it: if you have competition on GUIs it means you succeeded :-). Some people may be willing to pay for a hosted version or an app, others will likely host it themselves, I'm sure people would donate to you, the main developer if that was the case.

<comment><USER3> I created a file format designed for sharing data in-between language learning apps (JSON based + signature). It's not released yet but if someone is interested please reply below. It would be great to have software other than mine using it.

<comment><USER4> I'm definitely interested.

<comment><USER3> Thanks for your interest! I'll edit the spec draft a little more, write a quick big picture explanation and then send you an email.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Creator here. As a University student I was struggling a lot with the huge amount of information I needed to remember for my courses. I started using spaced repetition (Anki) and it worked great! I enthusiastically shared this method with my family but they got overwhelmed by the complexity of the Anki interface and all the options. I wanted to change that.

So I built memordo. I focused on creating a minimalist but still productive interface for creating memory cards that supports image, latex, code and clozes. I also built a chrome extension so you can add memory cards instantly whether you are reading pdfs or wikipedia.

I learned so much coding, like rendering latex instantly in a chrome extension, or the painful complexity of wysiwyg editors. I ended up using a vue based framework called tiptap. It works as a wrapper on top of prosemirror. ([https://github.com/ueberdosis/tiptap...](https://github.com/ueberdosis/tiptap...))

Anyways, I would love to hear what you guys think about this project!

<comment><USER5> I've spent about 10 minutes kicking the tires so I may have missed things which are actually there. These are my thoughts, excuse the roughness of it all:

* Editing - Keyboard shortcuts for committing a card? Undo system in the editor would be useful. Contextual help for the icons on hover.

* Decks - Perhaps separate tab for this rather than the side panel being the only way to view them

* notifications - Avoid the alert pop up for notifications when the user does an unexpected action. Maybe the area under the CARD CREATOR title might be the place for it.

* navigation - there should be quick navigation to study or desk views always present. Having to click on the side panel, then click is a little inconvenient.

* New Cards - it's possible to get to the Card Creator without any decks created. If I want create a new deck for this card, I'd have stop editing and click the side panel. Surely typing a new deck name in the Deck form on the Card Creator would be less confusing?

You'll get two types of users coming to this app. Those who are familiar with spaced repetition apps and those who aren't. I'd recommend spending time on polishing the onboarding experience for noobie users. For the more experienced user I would expect a few features if this was going to be a more modern anki- lite, like a deck view organisable in a folder format or tags, or an undo system for the editor.

Having an exportable format is extremely important for me personally. Might be different for other people.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi. Thank you such much for your feedback! I have noted all of your valuable points down. Thanks for taking the time!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Please, do not use white lies on your web.

This is not free to use. This is useless on free. It's like tesla saying that chargers are free to use on front page, then on pricing: but only first 0.1kWh.

this is dark pattern.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a valid point. What do you think would be respectable amount of free cards? - or is having a card limit even the right way to of differentiate between free and premium?

Very interested in hearing your points - i'm totally new to this.

<comment><USER6> I appreciate you responding.

I would say 250+ and no more than 1000 should be more than enough. Usually doing 20..40 new DAILY is a max if you are doing anything bigger.

I would allow users bigger db (1000..5000) but would limit to the moment they will reveal (open) 250 new cards.

You want them to create habbit. This needs more than few weeks. Completly dont worry about them using 200 or 500, if habbit do not kickin, they will leave you no matter what you offer.

p.s. my experience come from doing 20k rep spacing english. It took me around 10 years of daily doing it.

p.p.s. I paid for my 20k english course, 15 USD. that was for the app, complete 20k cards with phrases and VOICE audio. Mind it. 15 usd. Your tool would cost 10yrs _12_ 5 whooping 6000 usd :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for insight, i'll definitely use it! It is a valid point about your English course but myself I don't use SRS for language learning I use it for mathematics, cs, and economics, so that was why I implemented latex and codeblocks. But I think some sort of predefined/shareable deck solution could solve this problem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm always curious on what type of feedback the author really is looking for or if it is just cheap ad.

$5 for unlimited and basically 25 cards for 'free' makes it quite obvious that this tool does not provide anything the market already offers.

Aren't people analysing what is already out there?

Anki/Ankiweb is free. What student will every pay $5/month for your service? No one.

I assume that you will visit your subscription numbers, your page counts for a few weeks, you will see no magic and sudden richness, and either you loos interest or you discover that someone is misusing your server through some bug and you shut it down.

I don't wanna be pessimistic, don't get me wrong, but i really want to know what your mental idea was showing it here.

If you really wanna have feedback: \- Make it as simple and fast and easy to create new cards/decks \- Add an IOS/Android App; Either native or PWA \- Fix your unicode stuff , doesn't work everywhere just because it works on your pc \- Actually teach people how to write proper cards; Your description, to be honest, is as shitty avg as any other website

And as a final point: Actually think of something which is worth $5 per Month and makes any difference to what the market already has to offer.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you so much for your valuable feedback! This was a proof of concept of the idea of creating cards through a chrome extension. There is still a lot of crucial features missing, and I know that now. But from my experience Anki is not an easy tool to use for non-technical users, so the aim for memordo is to have the easability of quizlet but the functionality of anki.

<comment><USER8> I take advantage of that complexity though. For example, I practice intentional vocabulary acquisition by adding cards in my own custom note type called 'Vocab.'

I installed AnkiConnect add-on which allows me to communicate with Anki over a simple HTTP API and complimented it with a CLI tool which automatically fetches the audio or whatever is needed to fill in the fields for the card and adds it to Anki.

So all you have to do is open the terminal and write "add [word]". And the magic happens:

1\. A card which the agent is prompted to pronounce the word, followed by the correct pronunciation.

2\. A card which the agent is prompted to write down the word after hearing the pronunciation.

3\. A card which requests a random example sentence featuring the word, served by a local server. ([https://i.imgur.com/11E3IqE.png](https://i.imgur.com/11E3IqE.png))

The last card is the most helpful, it provides comprehensible input in the form of unique sentences that uses that word, so you get acquainted with the word's collocations, the context in which it is used and etc.

<comment><USER9> > I take advantage of that complexity though.

So do I. I suspect we're not the target users of the app then.

The target user is probably someone who'd write math equations as "a^2 + b^2 = ?" instead of learning how to use LaTeX in Anki.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I think you'll need to offer something significantly better than what is already available for free on other apps to really get traction. This space is already pretty crowded -- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flashcard_software](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flashcard_software) \-- but I still think there's plenty of room to improve on what current services offer.

Agree with the others that your pricing doesn't make sense. You want to get users to the hook point of SRS. Very few people reach this point [0], and having an arbitrary card limit will only make this worse. I would provide a very generous free trial period that has all the features of the full version -- perhaps something like 60-90 days. If someone is actually still using the app at the end of the trial, they'll be really easy to convert because they see the huge benefits. The reality is, the vast majority of your sign ups will not reach that point, but a bigger proportion will if they don't have the arbitrary card limit that prevents them from seeing the real value of SRS.

Best of luck to you!

[0] There's a blog post out there from an author of free SRS software that laments how awful the conversion rates were because users just don't stick with SRS, but I can't seem to find it.

</comment><comment><USER11> By minimalist I didn't realize you meant minimalist in features, just design. Regardless I think everyone, not just power users, could benefit from a SRS, but part of me thinks that the time investment that is required to get started on Anki is what keeps people going when they're still in the early stages. It's kinda like a buy-in.

Do you support exporting your cards into a csv format?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your feedback, very valuable! I'm very much still at the early stages of this project, I decided to go public to get feedback as soon as you could add a card from the chrome extension and then study it.

There is no support for exporting cards, but I have noted it and will consider it in the future. Thanks again for your comment!

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> What I'd like is a system to let me browse, create and organize my "notes," to use the Anki term of art, in a literate, flexible way. You could probably build it on top of Anki using tags and/or data hidden in HTML, but I think it would provide enough added value to justify paying for it.

Basically, I want WorkFlowy for Anki notes. I should be able to organize my notes into hiearchical categories and browse them easily. Currently, it's difficult to find the gaps in your Anki deck on a given topic unless you're very careful and thorough with your tagging. And even then, only being able to view one card at a time makes it hard to quickly scan through the cards under a given tag.

<comment><USER13> This sounds very similar to [https://www.remnote.io/](https://www.remnote.io/).

<comment><USER12> Wow, that's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for the tip.

Edit: I see that you're actually the creator. Thanks for making this!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> It is hard take an idea, spend the time to build, and make it live. Congrats on doing this!

I'm not the target audience, so I can't comment on the value proposition. I'll just point out a few things I noticed on the site:

\- The "Free" signup button brings you to the login and not register page. Also the $5 pay link goes to login too. I used the $5 link and then clicked register. Registered and was never asked for payment. \- On the register, suggest not asking for username creation unless you really need it...just use the email as the username. \- The step-though-guide last step has "next" and doesn't do anything. Should be close. There are a few good step guide packages out there you might want to consider. \- In the app, clicking "Upgrade" give a 500 error. \- If you try to create a card before creating a deck says need to select a deck. People probably will first click on create card first, so suggest have a default deck that you can select right away. \- Created a single card and says I have 2 cards when studying. I think counting both sides of the card.

</comment><comment><USER15> For some reason I find the website really hard to read, maybe try something like this? [https://imgur.com/a/cNWZosc](https://imgur.com/a/cNWZosc)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. I definitely have to iterate on the frontend design, I still have a lot to learn. But I agree on your picture that I need to de-clutter the frontpage. Thanks for your feedback!

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Have you tried the open-source SRS [https://www.memcode.com](https://www.memcode.com) folks? With images & formatting & SM2 spaced-repetition algorithm too.

</comment><comment><USER17> Good idea in principle, appears to be well executed, but this must not be a service. Just because it can be made into one, it doesn't mean it should be.

No reason whatsoever why this can't be a locally hosted offline web app that uses local storage for its state. I can see some people wanting to do their exercises using several devices and for that an optional syncing service would make sense, but adding a permanent online dependency for what is inherently an offline app operating with local data makes zero sense. Even if it were free.

</comment><comment><USER8> Just to let you know, clicking on "Features" or "Pricing" doesn't work if you are not on the home page. It can't find the anchors which are located on the home page.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey man thanks! still a lot of learning to be done on the frontend..

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Awesome, I'm going to try it out. I really think there's a lot of room for professional SRS tools.

A few things I've found using SRS.

\- I often want to practice on the go, but Anki's mobile offering isn't great for inputting new cards, or managing partial cards (i.e. I think of a sentence I don't know).

\- I have a couple modes of operation. When I'm studying I'm often at a computer, so I want bulk input/output - i.e. create a lot of cards fast.

\- Offline support is essential, since my study time is usually during my commute.

Anyway, congrats on launching!

</comment><comment><USER19> New SRS tools are great but I am yet to see anything that Anki and Polar doesn't provide.

Rather than seeing half-baked closed source apps like this I would just prefer more devs contributing to Anki.

</comment><comment><USER20> Small nitpick: your main headline on the site has a typo in the word 'knowledge'.

That said it looks interesting, but for me personally the only big reason to switch away from Anki would be more keyboard controls so I don't need to switch to the mouse and back for some menu interactions. Then again syntax highlighting in code blocks does sound like a neat feature for some situations.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your thoughts and very valuable nitpick (I have fixed it now). I definitely agree that keyboard controls are very essential to the card making process, and I will look into that!

<comment><USER21> Hi, nice work with this! Another small typo under the "Retain information with Spaced Repetition" header in the first bullet point, effecient -> efficient.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for spotting the typo! I have fixed it now.

<comment><USER22> One more: 'A _breif_ title' on the /suggestions page.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you! I have fixed it now :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I applaud your efforts but you have to think of some other pricing model or none at the moment.

</comment><comment><USER24> Hi. The "features" and "pricing" links no longer work after you click on "Demos" or "What is Spaced Repetition?" links.

Also, it might make sense that the bar holding those links remains visible at the top... or not.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi. Thanks for your valuable observation - I have fixed it now :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I made a tool like this when I was 11 years old, to help me with my homework.

(This was in the Apple ][ days)

</comment><comment><USER26> What is Spaced Repetition? Never heard of it.

<comment><USER27> The very first non-navigation-bar text on the linked site says: "The Next Generation Spaced Repetition Tool to help you Retain More Knowledge: Create memory cards anywhere on the web", which should give some clues. A little lower down there's a link saying "Click here to check out our 5 minute introduction to spaced repetition", linking to ... a brief explanation of spaced repetition and why you might want to use it.

Anyway. The idea is that when you learn something, you are likely to forget it eventually, and that when you _remind_ yourself of something you've learned that postpones the likely forgetting by an amount of time that increases according to how long it was since you learned it. So if you want to learn something and retain it, you should keep reminding yourself just before you would have forgotten. Fortunately, it seems that for most of us the time we remember a thing for is somewhat longer than the time between reminders, which means that learning something this way doesn't take an unreasonable number of reminders before it's lodged in your brain long-term.

So: a spaced repetition system is a thing that helps you learn. You give it a bunch of things you want to learn; it tests you and remembers -- separately for each individual thing -- when you were last tested and how you did. If its algorithm matches your brain reasonably well, a fairly small investment of effort can help you get a lot of stuff imported lastingly into your brain.

The most common use of these things is for learning foreign language vocabulary, but of course that's by no means all you can do with them.</comment></comment>


20 bucks says Soylent is a viral marketing campaign - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/20/4448650/20-bucks-says-soylent-is-a-viral-marketing-campaign

<comment><USER2> It is a remarkably effective buzz-generator, especially considering it does nothing new that isn't being done (better) by other existing companies. It'd be a great relief if it is a marketing gimmick for a movie. Maybe they should give out samples for screenings?

But, if it's real, maybe they could go a step further? Why bother even drinking it? Why not sell naso-gastric tubes with instructions for fitting? Obviously lack of xray (to make sure it's going to your stomach to feed you, and not to your lungs where you'll aspirate the food and die) is a problem, but they appear to have ignored all the other problems.

</comment><comment><USER3> [Face-palm]

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_Room!_Make_Room](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_Room!_Make_Room)!

It's actually not named after the movie, it's named after the artificial food that appears in Harry Harrison's book "Make Room! Make Room!" (the movie is extremely loosely based on the book). Steaks manufactured from soy bean and lentil are called [in the book] Soylent.

Soy bean and lentil, not people.

<comment><USER4> The article is referring to the movie, not the book.

<comment><USER3> Perhaps you misunderstood my point, the article is incorrectly referring to the movie, the Soylent product has and continues to reference Soylent from the book.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> well, what do you think? Crowdhoster is made by Crowdtilt which is also a YC company, and PG never denied saying it was the "pivot of the century" so has YC been in on it from the beginning?</comment>


Rewrite It ...and other programming best practices. - <AUTHOR> http://thintz.com/essays/programming-best-practices

<comment><USER2> While the author makes some good points, I think he gets a little too enthusiastic, e.g. near the end:

" _Your program will always be better off if you spend a day writing it 6 times, rather than designing it 6 times and writing it once._ "

Yes, but something like design, write, redesign, rewrite, rewrite... will likely be even better. And the more experienced you get---in the domain, the particular problem and orthogonally, the language, libraries and so on---the more you can do detailed design upfront and less code rewriting.

</comment><comment><USER3> More times than not, I've found rewriting code leads to more problems than fixing some trivial error. Some small bug in the code is not necessarily a symptom of a horrible design that will destroy your project.

I don't know about the random guy who wrote this article or his experiences, but I rarely find myself with a few weeks to throw away rewriting code that works.

I submit to you <http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?RewriteCodeFromScratch> for a more reasonable and comprehensive discussion of the topic.</comment>