How we got a Y Combinator interview but blew it - <AUTHOR> http://www.keacher.com/1113/how-we-got-a-y-combinator-interview-but-blew-it/ <comment><USER3> Being rejected from YC is not necessarily the end of the world. I speak from experience, when my company first started out, we tried to get into YC S11, got the interview, but did not make it. We continued along bootstrapped for a while, and ended up raising a couple millions in Series A. We haven't had to touch the money, we're profitable and have ~30 people now.

Point is, PG is one of the smartest guys around; but don't be discouraged if he thinks your idea is terrible, he's not _always_ right.

<comment><USER4> Did you use a different HN id when you applied? I was curious which group you were part of, but there has never been an application including this HN id.

<comment><USER3> I don't think my HN id was mentioned in the application, but the co-founders were `progolferyo` and `marialegre`.

I'd be super curious what you think of us now, actually. We struggled for a bit to find the right approach but I think we've come a long long way; even though we still have a long way to go.

<comment><USER4> I found it. I vaguely remember the interview, but not what we thought. I asked the other YC partners if anyone else does.

As for what I think of you now, at your stage you can use the same test I would: monthly revenue growth rate. If it's over 20% that's impressive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Why wouldn't you compare it to Dropbox? It makes total sense. As a photographer wouldn't I just drag my photos to a dropbox folder and it would be backed up? I generate a lot of data but not an incredible amount that it can't be backed up through a consumer internet connection.

Now the problem that I face and would like to solve eventually is video editing storage and retrieval. Ever wondered how raw video gets sent around today? Through FedEx in removable hard drives. The sheer amount of raw data is staggering when making any sort of film. Then storing it for archival. All a pain. 1TB of video is common these days. I have a few ideas to solve this and I think videographers would want a solution.

<comment><USER6> Backing up online has two issues: 1) cost. Dropbox does not offer very high storage solutions so far. I have 3TB of videos and photos, where am I going to store it ? 2) access speed and upload speed. Especially upload. It takes forever to upload, unless maybe you have fiber connection...

The technical solution for most people is just not there yet. It's way cheaper to backup on a solid drive and store it at your friend's.

<comment><USER7> There are a few online backup services which let you mail them a disk if uploading would take too long. A quick bit of googling found Mosaic Archive (<http://www.mosaicarchive.com/online-photo-backup/>), for example. I haven't used them & don't know anything about them, but their website says they provide this service. I'm sure there are others too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I've got to give you credit for not being at all defensive. I have a hard time with that, and it's something that I need to get better at. When someone gives you feedback, you need to take it graciously. Either they're right, or you didn't communicate yourself well enough, and that's why they're wrong.

<comment><USER9> Or they are lying.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Weird that they were comparing it to Dropbox, while to me it sounds like they should've compared it to Backblaze or Crashplan.

<comment><USER11> They were comparing it to Dropbox because that's the comparison actual users will make. Regardless of whether they want to brand as 'backup' or 'photo storage', people are starting to view those things equally and Dropbox is an EXTREMELY popular backup tool [1] [2] [3].

Dropbox even launched a feature to automatically capture photos from a device [4]. If they can't answer the 'compare to Dropbox' question well, they can't defend the business.

[1] - <http://www.labnol.org/software/backup-files-dropbox/18634/> [2] - [http://lifehacker.com/5406806/best-online-backup-tool- dropbo...](http://lifehacker.com/5406806/best-online-backup-tool-dropbox) [3] - [http://workawesome.com/software/data-backup-and- sync-3-dropb...](http://workawesome.com/software/data-backup-and- sync-3-dropbox/) [4] - [http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/12/dropbox-responds-to- tumblrs...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/12/dropbox-responds-to-tumblrs- photoset-app-with-new-photo-focused-update-on-android/)

<comment><USER12> I suspect that the target market wouldn't compare it with Dropbox, which gets expensive if you want lots of space. They were building something for serious photographers, with one of the mentioned pain points being the time it takes to backup a photo library. I understand this — I have about half a terabyte of photos (shot in RAW) and I don't take nearly as many photos as some.

That said, Backblaze works fine for me, although the initial backup did take a while.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Perhaps half the reason they kept asking about the business model / trying to compare it to Dropbox was that they were trying to evaluate whether they had a potentially billion dollar + company on their hands, or a niche nice little side business.

It has been discussed in detail in one of PG's essays [1] about how it's only the big wins that matter to them these days and trying to determine whether the company has the chance to become that big is all part of the problem.

The fact that you didn't get into Y Combinator shouldn't have stopped you continuing with your idea. It is a problem that needs a solution and your solution may have ended up being a multi million dollar idea which would have given you both great success. The problem is, the start up space these days and incubators in particular are on the hunt for the billion dollar ideas - thus they can gamble on many, for the few successes to help break even.

At the end of the day, you guys seem really switched on and the effort / level of detail you went through suggests you are capable of success - <USER2> potentially you need to re apply with a bigger idea next time, after reading PG's 'Black Swan' essay to understand what they're wanting to hear you pitch.

[1] <http://paulgraham.com/swan.html>

<comment><USER14> I think ultimately the problem was centering their 'solution' around offsite backup. Most people don't see it as a solution to a real problem, something pressing, but rather as prevention that they might get around to having. Dropbox, on the other hand, solved from day one the nagging problem of syncing between devices, and went further to solve file sharing among people.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Great post. Kudos for having the resolve to follow through on execution and knowing when to move on. Best of luck on your other project!

</comment><comment><USER16> So, why would you develop something for photogs but do it on windows instead of mac? that seems like a bad step, right out of the gate

<comment><USER17> For a prototype, it really shouldn't make a difference. People mock up UI's in Photoshop, after all.

<comment><USER11> That's a mockup, not a prototype. If they're spending development time making a prototype, they should build it for the people who would be using it so they can collect user feedback properly.

I do think, however, that their time would have been better spent fleshing out their business plan/idea and creating some nice mockups rather than trying to slam together a subpar prototype.

<comment><USER17> So call it what you want.

They got meaningful feedback.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> It seems to me that this isn't the first YC interview story that ended with rejection, and being too set on a certain idea being cited as a possible reason why...

<comment><USER19> Also, YC can't accept every applicant, even if that application can accept the solution might change as time goes on.

Maybe it's that YC just saw a pitch a few hours/days before about a similar product with a better team/solution. Maybe it's that YC already invested in a few similar companies in the same space. Maybe it's the lack of a track record of the founders in building things. Maybe it's the black shirts. There are a lot of reasons besides being tied to a solution.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Sorry for thread-jacking: I have a strange feeling seeing CC-entry form on blurity.com without any indication who processes payments. Yeah, it's https and all, but I don't know blurity. I know PayPal and maybe a few other payment processors, or there could be some badges of third-party security monitors (McAffee, VeriSign, etc.) that could reassure me that the page is safe.

Just my 2c.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good point. The payment processor for Blurity is Stripe, but that's not apparent unless you inspect the page's source. I suppose that might explain why some people bail to the PayPal option. Regardless, I'll look into adding something to reassure potential customers of their payment security. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> On your video, it really is amazing how much better a good mic makes the whole thing -- the video part is kind of irrelevant, but being able to clearly hear you speaking without a ground loop hum, wind noise (people doing videos outdoors for some reason!), fan noise from a computer and built-in mic, etc. is a big improvement over many online videos.

<comment><AUTHOR> Even I was amazed by how much better the audio became. The camera still recorded audio for sync purposes, and it was remarkable how much more "present" the audio from the Zoom H4n was versus the camera audio. I highly recommend getting some sort of dedicated audio solution for anybody doing online video. Something like the Zoom H1 can be had for less than $100, and it will make a world of difference.

<comment><USER21> I really like the Blue Snowball ($50-80) USB microphones for a lot of purposes. Not as portable as an H1, but really convenient.

(I _love_ my H4ns, though -- I use them for everything. For conferences I usually have cameras with shotguns on L, board audio on R, and a zoom doing the same thing near the board. I still use a Sony HDV with 3 big chips and uncompressed HDMI out to an Atomos Ninja, though, and HDV tapes for backup. Picking the best audio track and getting it all in sync is a pain, though.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> The problem with this kind of backup scheme for photographers is that the utility in having a backup is huge, but the cost of doing that backup _at the bandwidth the photographers need_ is ludicrous.

We have worked with many designers and photographers, and all of them have the same problem - they can generate hundreds of gigabytes of important resources in almost no time at all, and even with a relatively solid pipe normal backup solutions just don't work.

What they really need is a bulletproof storage device that can be transported to a safe location when it needs to be. LaCie has some products in this space, but they don't offer the service that the customer needs - reliable, accessible storage.

The real solution is tape drives. Try to sell an Ultrium drive to a designer, though.

</comment><comment><USER21> I don't think photography workflows are really that difficult (even if you shoot raw D-SLR or DMF, it's not THAT huge). Video is where most workflows break down -- you might need 20TB SAN just for your working set, and there's not really any good way to archive ProRes 4:2:2 footage very well. Mostly I see people with numerous 1-2TB hard drives, many of which are infrequently accessed and may go bad.

</comment><comment><USER23> I'm still looking for an automatic photo archival service. I was hoping that Snaposit was that solution. Good luck in your future endeavors.

</comment><comment><USER24> Liquor seems to be a common theme in these stories: someone should open a bar outside of YC...

</comment><comment><USER25> May I ask did PG, Trevor, or Robert have and Ipad or computer in front of them during your demo? -I'd love to know!

<comment><USER26> Not the OP but from our interview: 6 interviewers, two had laptops, everyone else was working from paper or nothing at all.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Paying for Blurity? Meh. There are free AND open source implementations out there, including SmartDeblur (<http://yuzhikov.com/projects.html>) that has been recently publicized all over the net. Here's a detailed article for those who are interested in image deconvolution: <http://habrahabr.ru/post/147828/>

<comment><USER28> Every solution has a free and open source implementation.

It's like saying I'll bake a cake at home with the free and open source implementation available online instead of buying it from the store.

It about how much you weigh your time and the quality of your product.

Of course, there are exceptions, the cake you buy from the store might be bad but, that's unlikely if you buy from a reputed store.

<comment><USER29> I really like the analogy, especially regarding software that needs to run on a server vs an saas option.

Because home baked vs store bought also have some very different qualities, both emotionally and practically. Price is just one difference.

Some people just buy cakes. A few make & buy cakes. People who never buy cakes because they can make it themselves are few, opinionated, and kind of cranky in a lovable way.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Hmmm, they wanted to create Dropbox for photographers...

Have they heard about Flicker (as far as I remember they offer unlimited space for a few dollars a year)?

What's the big surprise they did not get funding? True, Venture Capital bussiness is totally broken, they throw money into a lot of crap ideas, but not _that_ crap.

I guess that Dropbox for storing MS Office documents or Dropbox for storing MP3 files (I have so many of them!) are also weak ideas, given the generic Dropbox can handle that (and Skydrive or Google Drive too).

<comment><USER31> Christ your comment is both rude and ignorant. You have no idea what the tech being proposed was. The point is photographers have huge data volumes to deal with. A similar problem exists with media companies who need to transfer around massive video files - and there is indeed a niche indistry that specialise in providing fast file transfers (e.g using UDP not TCP).

Your sarcastic and insulting commentary is not needed here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Just because you got rejected doesn't mean you should give up or conclude your idea was the wrong solution. Soon all cameras will have wifi capabilities, so my advice would be to consider that if you peruse the idea further.

I was very surprised that your rejection email said "you guys", I know YC keep it casual but that's really stunning word usage coming from an investor. As an EIR I saw many acceptance and rejection emails and never have any been written with such sloppy English. I guess it's part if the YC image, but I'm still surprised.

Your video sucked, and I'm sure you're far better at math and software than presentation skills, but that stuff doesn't matter if the idea is solid. You can hire those people later. Check out the kickstarter video Brydge for an example of how to make a great video.

I would agree with others though, forget Windows, build prototypes for a Mac, because every single photographer uses a Mac.

I think your CSI-like unblurr proves you go both have first class skills, keep at it, there's definitely a product that's not yet been built that deals with photographers' needs specifically. Dropbox isn't is for sure.

<comment><USER33> Regarding the video, we were instructed not to spend too much time on it. As it was, we spent too much time on it. Making a great video is difficult, and ours was there just to meet the requirements of the application. Since we got the interview, clearly it was good enough.</comment></comment>


Lessons learned after 21 weeks at a startup - <AUTHOR> http://www.jasonshen.com/2010/21-lessons-learned-in-21-weeks-at-a-startup/

<comment><USER2> I love working with this guy. Not only is his energy infectious but he's self- aware and constantly tinkering with improving himself. Like he's simultaneously both the bionic man as well as the doctor that's adding a shiny new limb.

<comment><USER3> Aww thanks dude. I'm not sure how the analogy works - (self-aware = bionic man?) but it sounds like a compliment! =P

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> >> _Big companies take forever to get anything done If you think your startup hasn't done a lot lately, take a look at bigger companies. Long release cycles. Projects that go nowhere. I've seen and heard of startups collaborating with bigger firms (which will go nameless) that drag their feet, bring in tons of VPs and ultimately are not worth the time. If you're going to work with a big guy, be prepared._

Would anyone care to elaborate on this?

</comment><comment><USER5> Lesson -- the 24 hour fitness gym in SOMA is a strangely small world. Hi Jason.

<comment><USER3> It's true - that gym contains a higher-than-average level of startup folk. I've met others. Hi Earl. =)

<comment><USER6> Must... Change... Gyms...</comment></comment></comment>


Scrivener Temporarily Withdrawn from Sale on the Mac App Store - <AUTHOR> http://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=348 <comment><USER2> "2.4.1 was rejected on Monday night for a reason that didn't make sense (the reviewer said it wasn't sandboxed when it was)."

I've had some incredibly fun (sarcasm) experiences with the review team for the MAS over the last few months. Reading that sentence got a belly laugh out of me.

The first major WTF that I had with the review team was their insistence that an app I had submitted was calling a private method. A method with the same name was present in an included library but rather than explain that to them I found it quicker just to remove the library (a workaround was simple enough). The hair pulling started when they again rejected the app for _exactly the same reason_. As the app relied on a heavy 3rd party framework it took a lot of investigation to understand what (wasn't) happening. Finally I took out a $50 tech ticket and after a week the engineer explained that the review team's tool for checking API usage was broken and it had nothing to do with my app.

The next time the review team rejected an app (seemingly within minutes of it going into review) because it was "producing garbage output". This time I just did a cursory review of the app before using another $50 tech support ticket. The app was sometimes writing files with the format somefile.ext.sb- randomstring. I suggested to the reviewer that the app was messing up an atomic write and given the sb- part of the filename had something to do with sandboxing. A week later the engineer explained what it was to me -- which was exactly what I had suggested.

My advice to anyone dealing with this is to spend zero time talking to the review team. Don't resubmit (unless it's something really obvious) and don't try to reason with them. Filing a $50 tech support ticket will basically guarantee that someone capable of passing the Turing test (have a conversation via iTunes Connect and you'll understand what I mean) will look into the problem. The tech support team will usually ask the review team to expedite your review once the problem has been solved -- something you'll rarely get if you ask yourself.

<comment><USER3> _Finally I took out a $50 tech ticket and after a week the engineer explained that the review team's tool for checking API usage was broken and it had nothing to do with my app._

Did Apple at least refund your $50 when they discovered it was a bug in their own software?

<comment><USER2> No, neither time. You do get a certain number for free per license so neither of those were actually out of pocket.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> To me, the most interesting part of the story is the parenthetical comment at the end:

      (Incidentally, because of some of the changes we are being
      required to make, we cannot guarantee that Scrivener on the
      Mac App Store will have as good support for .docx, .doc and
      .odt formats in 2.4.1 and future releases. This does not
      affect the version on our site.)

I wonder what's behind this, how it actually affects Scrivener and whether it will hit other apps in the future.

</comment><comment><USER5> This is why I'm (slowly) weaning myself off of Apple platforms after being an Apple user and enthusiast since 1984. A computing platform where the vendor is the ultimate arbiter of what software the user can and cannot run is fundamentally broken.

iOS has always been this way and, though I used it for a while, eventually the stories of apps being rejected for all sorts of reason were too significant to ignore. When Apple tried to dictate the set of acceptable _programming language_ for apps I gave up my iOS devices.

Though I can still run software on my macs without permission, I'm now looking for a suitable replacement for Mac OS as well. It's difficult to imagine a day coming where the Mac would be "app store only" like iOS, but it's not impossible.

<comment><USER6> It's not quite how you make it sound.

Apple is the ultimate arbiter of software that is sold through their store. They do not control what you build and run on your device through Xcode. You just can't distribute the end result. It's still a computing platform, and you can still write and run code. You can make your iOS device compute things.

There is value in being able to sell and distribute the end result — but that's not what computing is, that's marketing.

Edit: Why not make your same complaint about Sony's PlayStation 3? Do you not use that because it is a closed environment, one where you can not run your own software?

<comment> mkr-hn The PS3 isn't a general purpose computer like a Microsoft or Apple PC.

<comment><USER6> But an iOS phone is a general purpose computer? (The discussion was relating to iOS devices, in addition to Macs.)

A PS3 is just another computer in your home. It just happens to be locked down and branded.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I go with direct download over Mac App Store every time when it's available. This story illustrates the reason pretty well.

<comment><USER8> I agree fully – the danger of the walled garden platform has been illustrated quite quickly. Though, part of me wants it to happen more, in bigger ways, so that _everyone_ notices how bad it can be.

Relatedly, I think it's somewhat amusing – I find myself using the Mac App Store the way I sometimes use brick and mortar stores – to look and see my options and then I go see if I can find a "better deal" from a website – in this case, the software publisher's site.

Similarly, the stuff I have actually bought from the App Store is either items that are only available there or are so cheap/single use items that I don't care about shopping around.

<comment><USER9> One person's receipt validation bug hardly means the "walled garden" (so sick of that term) is dangerous because his update review is taking a week. He's the one who made the mistake. Other computing platforms, such as consoles, have had centralized approval over software titles for decades. It's only become an issue to desktop users who are used to the Wild West and are experiencing a transition to the software model that has existed everywhere else for a long time.

By the way, anyone wanting automated Apple receipt validation code should look at Receigen on the Mac App Store. It generates a validation solution with each new version number.

<comment><USER8> The initial mistake certainly was the software author's but that's hardly the most important point.

There are at least three key issues brought out by the original post, IMHO:

1) By moving to the App Store distribution from a previous, independent distribution system, publishers have clearly taken a step backwards in terms of being able to push out bug fixes. This is a huge issue and it's irrespective of what other platforms have to live with. It's a clear downgrade of a valuable feature for end-users and that's a problem – particularly because it's largely driven by policy and not technical requirements.

2A) Even worse, Apple's gatekeeping is horribly broken – approval is so opaque as to almost seem arbitrary and therefore cannot be relied upon. This _is not_ the author's fault.

2B) The standards for gatekeeping, such as they are, are not constant. It seems clear that features that were previously acceptable can become no longer acceptable if Apple deems them to be competitive with Apple products. Or, worse, if Apple alters their products in such a way as to overlap with the _existing_ features of a product in the App Store, a program may no longer be approved – essentially without warning and with no grandfathering due to prior approvals.

So, yes, this story says a lot about the controlled environment of a walled garden ecosystem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> On a related note, Scrivener is the best app I've ever used on any platform. My wife and I use it for legal writing, and I've never found anything that can handle our workflow as well as Scrivener.

<comment><USER11> I really don't get on with Scrivener and I don't completely understand why.

I've gone back to Voodoo pad for writing even though it doesn't quite fit all my needs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Apple's slowly strangling the life out of their golden goose with their capricious and heavy-handed control of their platforms. Their app stores are full of crap already and Apple is just increasingly in the way of developers' and users' best interests.

I really like Apple's technologies but I absolutely _despise_ their idiotic policies.

<comment><USER13> Hmm. I find it annoying too, but I can't help feeling that for my parents (and most other non-techie users) this level of control, with a single source of approved apps, is just great.

<comment><USER12> A single source of vetted apps is fine but Google has already demonstrated that allowing expert users to use alternative app sources doesn't hurt. And I don't see how anybody can argue that required a full review cycle for every minor bug fixes benefits users. I see more and more mobile shops iterating on Android first because there are just fewer hassles.

Also, Apple's refusal to allow developers to do lower-level things like create alternative keyboards means Android users get to use modern input technologies like SwiftKey while iOS users are still pecking away at a 2007 keyboard.

<comment><USER13> _I see more and more mobile shops iterating on Android first because there are just fewer hassles._

Hmm, more like different hassles, I'd have thought: having to support thousands of screen size/hardware/OS combinations must be a huge pain, and less of the UI is given to you for free. Though I speak as someone who's done very little Android dev, and rather more iOS.

It's true that the Mac model (App Store PLUS third-party apps) is preferable for me. But then again, I do like the idea that my parents' machines won't run any unsigned code. I'm thinking of Windows virus support nightmares past.

<comment><USER12> I've been doing Android dev for the last six months or so after doing iOS for about two years and actually accommodating different screen sizes really isn't hard at all as long as you have a designer that understands it's not a fixed layout environment like iOS. Actually the dynamic layout tools on Android make things a lot easier in many cases, certainly far, far easier than AutoLayout on iOS (an API I absolutely loathe).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Be _really_ careful when requesting an expedited review. We learned this the hard way.

Your app update goes into a different review queue, and people who are not be familiar with previous versions of your app will review it. They will pick on things that previous reviewers had already come to terms with (either through discussion with you, or lengthy review).

Edit: more info, this happened with our app "Codea". Because it was a coding app for iPad, the initial review was extremely lengthy (over a month). When we had to urgently update due to a trademark issue, our "expedited" review also took over a month — as if it was being reviewed for the first time (despite having past updates reviewed quickly). It didn't seem to matter that the existing version was available all the while on the App Store, either.

Apple's review process is incredibly weird.

</comment><comment><USER14> I nearly pulled my hair out when a sandboxing bug in 10.7.5 broke one of Apple's own apps.

<http://imgur.com/F5roY1h>

<https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1599>

</comment><comment><USER15> So, for iOS, the app store and apple's possibly arbitrary gatekeeping is the only way to get an app to your users.

For OSX desktop... what are the benefits software publishers get, just marketting/visibility, basically?

<comment><USER16> Not having to run a shop.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> How many users are still using 10.6? Couldn't the description be updated with a note specifying the temporary issue with 10.6? Seems like that would be a lot simpler than taking it down...

<comment><USER18> Anybody with a single core intel machine (there's two of them in my house right now, an old Mac mini, and an old PowerBook that still works fine)

<comment><USER19> The Mac mini 1.5Ghz, a 7 year old model, is the only modern Mac with a single core Intel CPU. The PowerBook line had PowerPC microprocessors, and the MacBook Pro series never had single core CPUs. Apple did however release MacBook Pros with Core Duo CPUs -- OS X 10.7 requires at least Core 2 Duo. by 2007, all models had Core 2 Duo CPUs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> reading through this, it all sounds familiar. then it hits me. this is like trying to get a grant reviewed by the NIH!

</comment><comment><USER21> How's that freedom working out for ya?

<comment><USER9> What does this even mean?

<comment><USER21> apparently it means downvote me</comment></comment></comment>


Let's automate – A story on automated testing - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/apegroup-texts/fuck-it-lets-automate-86fd25dc0a3a?source=latest#ecb2 <comment></comment>


Across Continents: A Stolen Laptop, an Ominous Email, and a Big Risk - <AUTHOR> http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/03/21/470563524/across-continents-a-stolen-laptop-an-ominous-email-and-a-big-risk <comment><AUTHOR> The story, I think, exemplifies human desire to learn and change for the better. No matter what the circumstance, ask for help and you may be surprised!</comment>


Show HN: De-sk, modular office desk system - <AUTHOR> http://de-sk.co <comment><USER3> It's an interesting concept. You need more photos - I need to see how the slats interlock, I need to see photos of how the frame works. My immediate thought was that with a long enough desk (de-sk?) it would bow in the middle. A lot of questions I have don't seem to be answered on the landing page. I think overall, the landing page could be simplified and cleaned up so I don't need to go hunting through the "FAQ" and "Why De-sk?" pages to know if this is the desk for me.

As others have pointed out, I think the biggest weakness is the seams. It looks like it would be impossible to write on. I would suggest that you include some sort of optional desk pad as an add-on.

I'm from the US. Although it doesn't look like you're shipping here yet anyway, you might include inch/pound units too if you plan to ship internationally at some point.

Cool concept, good luck.

EDIT: Here's what I meant by a desk pad, in case it wasn't obvious. This one has a lip so that it stays put, and a metal backing so that you wouldn't feel the slats underneath while you were writing: [https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40246156/](https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40246156/)

<comment><USER4> _> It's an interesting concept. You need more photos - I need to see how the slats interlock, I need to see photos of how the frame works. My immediate thought was that with a long enough desk (de-sk?) it would bow in the middle._

He doesn't explain it but it seems pretty clear to me how it might work. The slats don't interlock. Underneath each slat are wooden tabs (one on each end) that fit snugly inside the frame. Each frame is sized to fit a certain number of slats.

And a long desk won't bow in the middle because the slats run the short end of the frame, not the long end.

<comment><USER5> The long axis of the desk still has a load bearing member that can flex. Presumably if you get a longer desk frame the member would be adjusted (in size or thickness or whatnot) to not bow.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hey HN! I'm Jonathan. I've spent the last few months working on designing and launching a new concept for a desk. It's mainly targeted towards companies / offices -- ie banks of desks. I was inspired by my experience starting a co- working space, and subsequently meeting lots of others running offices and co- working spaces.

It's my first non-digital product, and I'm super excited to share it here first.

I'd love any feedback on the product and the site! :)

<comment><USER6> I love the concept because modularity is clever. You can build many many setups with a few pieces, and it's easy to ship!

I've been shopping for a desk in Oxford & London and I was not satisfied with what I saw. Great timing, I will consider de-sk.

I'd love to see adjustable height. Maybe not with an engine, as that would make the desk too heavy to ship and too expensive or complex. I think a crank handle system would be enough for small frames.

I'd also love to see the possibility of buying solid wood modules, like solid birch, instead of plywood.

PS: You should maybe have a solution for the annoyance of writing over tiny gaps. It doesn't bother me as I always write on top of a leather pad, but I can bother others. Good luck.

<comment><USER7> the concept is slats, slats have been around since man started turning timber into lumber. Point to me what is new.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I didn't immediately see some desktop covering that would make the surface flat and smooth. This is something that some users would have to have - <USER2> writing on paper on the desk, and for mousing.

And since I don't want to have to have a special "desk mat" that looks odd and may slide around, I would skip this desk. Perhaps you can devise one that fits the style and provides the flat smooth surface that some of us would want.

</comment><comment><USER9> Another cool company I've used for the office - Floyd, you buy the legs, and build a desktop/door etc. Can recommend. We built our tops out of 2 sheets of nice grade Russian Baltic Birch plywood glued/screwed together. More expensive but built like tanks and easy to move with the removable legs.

[https://floydhome.com/products/the-floyd-utility- set?color=W...](https://floydhome.com/products/the-floyd-utility- set?color=White)

<comment><USER9> pic of desk/detail: [https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j6mpmq2ozudike1/AAA0rAMeoBg_NnV6o...](https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j6mpmq2ozudike1/AAA0rAMeoBg_NnV6o3ANcvOMa?dl=0)

<comment><USER10> I like your use of the Craftsman tool chest. The printer fits perfectly!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Really great idea. In the awkward spaces city-dwellers like myself have to contend with, finding a desk that uses space well is a massive pain. For my current desk I ended up ordering countertop and building it myself. If this had been around I would have used it. Love the customisation options. As others have said it's a little expensive, but frankly paying an extra hundred quid for a desk (something I use a lot) that's _perfect_ isn't a big deal.

</comment><comment><USER12> There is a lot of questions regarding the way this works

How does the frame even work?

How does resizing work?

Won't writing a piece of paper on this desk be an unpleasant experience?

Your product & site needs a video

</comment><comment><USER13> Hard pass. I hate having any kind of seam underneath my working surface. This product is made entirely of seams.

</comment><comment><USER14> This is cool.

However, all the holes seem to be just at the edge of the boards -- which makes perfect sense. You don't want a hole in the middle.

But:

1) I think dynamic hole locations could be easily replicated on a standard desk by just drilling wherever you want and when you need to change this up, plugging old holes with a plastic cap. So really the main advantage is in being able to change the size of the tabletop, not in choosing different slats with different hole patterns.

2) sit-stand is the new hotness and you don't seem to address that.

3) having the main work surface be slatted is terrible. instead, have larger boards for the main area and a frame that allows just the edge to have modularity. You can still extend a desk by adding a smaller main board or a few full length slats.

</comment><comment><USER15> Nice idea!

I notice people are mentioning the slats as an issue, but after reflection I realized it wouldn't be a problem for _me_ (not to say that others won't find it a problem). I only write on paper as part of a block, and if I need to write on some single sheet of paper I always put a book, magazine or block behind it so that I don't have the hard table surface under the paper. One of the desk mats discussed would be fine too; I was just surprised to realize I don't need it.

Also, a grommet for the through-hole would reduce the chance of wear on a cable.

</comment><comment><USER16> Way too expensive, sorry. I just built my own: 400cm oak wood tabletop: 200 Euros. IKEA Legs: 18 Euros. IKEA ALEX drawer element: 60 Euros. Putting everything together took an hour.

<comment><USER17> _400cm oak wood tabletop: 200 Euros_

Oak isn't exactly cheap so for that price I assume this is just a tiny layer of oak (sorry couldn't find English term for it) glued on top of plywood or so?

Apart from that: De-sk is sort of expensive yes, but from what it looks like part of that price is quality paid for, it looks sturdy. No matter how smart and well-designed IKEA is, 18 euros cannot buy you something which lasts and doesn't wobble even after disassembling and assembling it again unless you attach it to a wall or so - at least that's my impression after years of using IKEA. I personally really dislike tables with even the slightest wobble for any kind of job. Most IKEA tables freshly built out of the box do not fullfill that requirement. Anyway: maybe they have something new now, what legs did you use?

<comment><USER18> 'Veneer' is the term usually used. At that price, likely not solid, although butcher-block is not terribly expensive: a 240cm one is USD200 [1]. If the IKEA legs are just solid metal, it's entirely possible that it doesn't wobble provided they're affixed well.

Interesting product, maybe there's value in 3 different size slats to alleviate the seams problem while still providing flexibility?

[1][https://www.lumberliquidators.com/ll/c/%27-Builder-Oak- Count...](https://www.lumberliquidators.com/ll/c/%27-Builder-Oak-Countertop- Williamsburg-Butcher-Block-Co.-OAKBB8L-H/10037933)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I wonder how this differs from the usual McMaster Carr table which has the benefit of an actually smooth/consistent surface [https://www.mcmaster.com/#6124T5](https://www.mcmaster.com/#6124T5) and in general just seems like a better deal.

</comment><comment><USER20> I understand in principle how this might work, but the site gives me no visual idea how it actually works.

</comment><comment><USER21> There is another similar concept od modular desk but based on bigger modules and without the steel frame (modules interlock together) [https://www.facebook.com/modulosdesk/](https://www.facebook.com/modulosdesk/)

</comment><comment><USER22> So it's an Ikea equivalent desk for $500 USD?

I'm in the market for a new desk, but this isn't doing anything for me, especially at that price point. Just yesterday I was looking at a sit/stand automatic up/down with built-in USB for nearly $200 less than that. It isn't even clear to me what if any of the replaceable slats I get - I went through the customization process, but other than the color and size it wasn't clear to me there was any options on the slats.

Looks beautiful, I just question its value proposition relative to other desks available from known entities (as well as in my domestic market)

<comment><USER23> Hover over the slats on the table and you will get a pop-up menu that allows you to modify them. Then the total price shows at the bottom. The one I put together came to 447 GBP or $576. It doesn't look like they ship to the US but if they did I expect there would be a considerable increase in the cost.

It would probably be possible to have something similar built for less, especially if you had some woodworking capability and were able to build the slats yourself. This thing would probably have a lot more strength and flexibility than something that comes from Ikea.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I couldn't find any info about how the wire management works. It seems like understanding how multiple slates join together would be beneficial.

</comment><comment><USER25> Site is down for me at the moment it seems. Not loading.

</comment><comment><USER7> Why are the board edges not laminated and instead just exposed particleboard, they are going to get rubbed and start falling apart.

<comment><USER23> It's baltic birch plywood, not particle board. It's extremely stable stuff and not going to fall apart even with a lot of rubbing.</comment></comment>


The Woman Behind Two Men and a Truck - <AUTHOR> http://fortune.com/2017/12/16/two-men-truck-moving-company/?iid=sr-link1 <comment><USER2> > I didn't know anything about moving laws, and one day the state police came > and looked at our paperwork. They found seven moves done without moving > licenses, so I had to go to court, and I paid a fine of $100 for seven > misdemeanors.

Well I can understand the licensing requirements to drive a truck, a taxi, or to work as electricians or plumbers, no one wants untrained drivers or tradesmen on the road due to safety - but why is a license required for moving?!

<comment><USER3> For intrastate moves only about half of US states require a license.

For long distance, interstate moves it's federally regulated and requires a license.

Do a quick google search on 'moving scams' and this should give you a good idea why licenses and regulations are a good idea in this industry. It's ripe for scams and shady characters.

Unbelievable, some of the stories I could tell...

<comment><USER4> > Unbelievable, some of the stories I could tell...

.... go on...

<comment><USER5> Probably not hard to fill in the gaps.

Step 1: encourage people to put the vast majority of their material possessions in someone else's vehicle, and pay for the privilege to do so.

Step 2: drive away.

<comment><USER6> Much more commonly, bait and switch on rates, holding possessions hostage until the new rate is paid, etc.

<comment><USER7> I had a locksmith pull that on me once. They gave me one quote over the phone, unlocked my car, then invoiced me for double.

Car movers are also notorious for this. The fun part there is that if you don't pay the new rate, they hit the road again and it can be another week before you get your car back-- assuming it hasn't been impounded.

<comment><USER4> What's a 'car mover'? Do people pay others to move their car for them? I can understand if the 'move' requires transit over water, but is there another reason for this?

<comment><USER8> I think it's fairly common with corporate relocations for the package to offer to put your cars on a car carrier and send you and the family via plane. I've had this opportunity a couple times and took advantage of it once.

If you see a car carrier unloading a car or two in or near a residential area or in a corporate parking lot, it's quite likely this is part of a relocation package.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Great read. I particularly enjoyed her advice:

> Make it right. The standard reimbursement for moving breakages used to be 6¢ > a pound. If we broke a 10-pound table, we'd be liable for 60¢, but that's > not right. So we used to give an "I'm sorry" box to customers, with a coffee > mug and gift certificate in it, along with fixing whatever we broke. It made > a big difference.

<comment><USER10> That seems like a bizarre way to pay for damages considering weight and value are not correlated at all.

<comment><USER11> Well, they are highly correlated for tables. Or are you selling 10lb tables for 60 cents?

<comment><USER12> And weirdly, I can't think of anything I can buy for 6cents a pound.

<comment><USER4> Adjusting for inflation (using the only date in the article, 1991), that's $0.11/lb in today's money! Hmm, still can't think of anything I can buy for that amount.

<comment><USER5> Bubble wrap maybe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Quite nice to see a local and someone I know personally on HN. A while back at my suggestion we had her at the Lansing Startup Grind:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yfyesm- Cu8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yfyesm-Cu8)

</comment><comment><USER14> I hired these guys and they never showed. I was in contact with them every hour, being reassured they were just running late. Eventually they stopped responding.

By midnight I gave up and threw half my stuff on the curb and UberXL'ed my clothes and small items to my new apartment.

Unfortunately I had a flight at 3am so couldn't handle a cancelation, which is my fault.

<comment><USER15> They're franchised. You didn't hire "these guys", you hired one of their franchisees. I'm sure the company would love to know about your experience.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Finding the right employees is the key to the continued growth of most businesses, but especially in this vertical: 99%+ of the experience of hiring a moving company is directly related to the people who show up at the house to do the hard manual labor.

PS. Set aside some extra cash to give these people directly if they exceed your expectations (at least in the US, not sure about 'tipping'/etc. elsewhere).

</comment><comment><USER17> Back in 2002 one of their trucks (St Louis MO) parked and blocked my car at a Quiktrip as I parked in the parking lot to get breakfast. When I came out I saw my car was blocked. I could not find the drivers and asked about it in Quiktrip and nobody knew, some even laughed at me. I was 29 minutes late when the drivers finally showed up to move their truck without even as much as am I'm sorry.

I never used their service but they were illeaglly parked when they blocked my car.

It has been along time since. I suppose I can forgive them.

</comment><comment><USER3> Can confirm, the moving industry is still a 'good ole boys network.' I've seen quite a few well-funded startups in the space fail and one of the culprits (among many) is usually because the movers are very skeptical of new services.

Seems like a lot of her early success was choosing the right franchisees. It's notoriously hard to grow a moving company. Would love to know more about their process back then.

<comment><USER18> There are probably some lessons from McDonalds in that - having restaurants run predominantly by teenagers, yet swamping the world. I assume the secret is a strict system plus solid leading staff who make sure the underlings stick to the plan?

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> This is great. Tongue in cheek TLDR (said with a lot of admiration as a divorced mom with two sons myself):

How to accidentally become CEO of a multi-million dollar moving company: Get divorced. Support your two sons' desire to make a little extra money by taking out an ad for them as local movers. Keep getting calls after they leave for college. Run with it.

</comment><comment><USER20> The bit on a moving license was interesting. One one hand, I'm sure there's a decent (if opaque) rationale behind it, whatever it is.

On the other hand, it was clearly a burdensome and annoying regulation to jump through, although clearly not crippling.

How could government constantly reevaluate law to determine a careful balance between cost and benefit?

<comment><USER3> It's actually a good industry to look at for any economist looking to study regulation affects.

In the 80s they deregulated the industry which led to a proliferation of shady movers and scams. Since the 80s they've been slowly adding back in more and more regulation.

<comment><USER21> The interesting part though is how the established companies limited the number of licenses that could be issued. That kind of regulatory capture is why "more regulation" vs "less regulation" is an overly simplistic lens through which to view situations. The nature of the regulation can be very important in protecting incumbents, although there is probably a certain quantity of regulation where the inherent complexity of compliance becomes a similar barrier.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> The 80s medium duty F-series really has a timeless look. You could replace the G-vans with modern equivalents and that 80s F-series would fit right in.

>they found seven moves done without moving licenses

Um, WTF. I wouldn't be surprised by this in 2017 in some city but back then?

<comment><USER23> The moving business is all about licensing. What state lines are you crossing, what are you moving, what states are your trucks certified in (emissions etc), how many guys do you have in the truck...

<comment><USER22> But that's more of a DOT/Commerical trucking thing, not a "moving license" thing.

<comment><USER23> Movers usually own and operate the trucks

<comment><USER22> Right. They'd be under DOT rules about commercial trucking which are stringent and micro-managerial enough that I don't see the need for separate licensing.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Gameboy Advance development by example: Drawing and Moving Rectangles - <AUTHOR> http://kylehalladay.com/blog/tutorial/2017/03/28/GBA-By-Example-1.html <comment><USER2> As an ex Gamebody (pre Advanced) developer that got a great job doing professional development after playing around with developing on an open source emulator, I have to say that I got into doing it because it was just great fun.

These machines are small enough to fit in your head when you're developing, and you really learn to get 'down to the metal' when your builtin libraries are memory addresses and ranges. The development is fast and fun.

I totally recommend checking it out and making a couple of games on something like the Gameboy or Gameboy advance. An excellent learning experience.

<comment><USER3> I was tinkering with Gameboy Dev using a C library(even bought one of those flashable cartridges), but found the resources/documentation to be kind of all over the place. Do you know of any better resources for learning Gameboy dev?

<comment><USER2> Unfortunately I am not aware of the modern documentation resources and a quick search shows they're just as scattered as when I was looking them up, possibly more now.

The hard part back then was finding _examples_ generally, but that's also the fun part in that you read all the specs for the machine you can find and let your imagination run wild. Assembly is kind of like that and the machines are small enough that, with enough background knowledge, they can be made to do some pretty interesting things.

Like learning anything, just read the every doc you can find and write code is the best advice to get started :)

<comment><USER4> A good place to start would be poking around github for "CS 2110 gatech gameboy". CS2110 is the intro-to-low-level course at Georgia Tech, and about the middle third of the course could be described as "getting comfortable with C syntax in the completely foreign environment of a gameboy advance by writing games". As a result, there are some provided libraries that are very extensive. For everything else, there's tonc.

Most of the time the course doesn't cover the more advanced features (mode 0? or was it 4, or 6 that did sprites and textures) but it was a fun introduction to something, and I got to write flappy bird in C when flappy bird was still culturally relevant.

<comment><USER3> I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is a good start, but I really hope this guy figures out the hardware sprite system soon or he's going to be in for a world of performance hurt. There's really not very often a reason to draw directly to the framebuffer.

I ran into that same problem with a few games I wrote for the PSP[1,2] in high school. I did all the rendering by drawing color values directly to the framebuffer. Quickly all of your CPU time per frame is taken up by drawing pixels and you have no time for game logic. This doomed my projects to small scale, and I didn't have the interest in learning actual PSP hardware programming and rewriting the rendering to use it.

[1] [http://brightnightgames.com/games.php?game=dyox](http://brightnightgames.com/games.php?game=dyox) [2] [http://brightnightgames.com/games.php?game=abahd](http://brightnightgames.com/games.php?game=abahd)

<comment><USER6> On a side note: from what little I've read, it seems like on some older systems like the NES/SNES, there isn't ever any direct manipulation of a framebuffer by the CPU — everything that appears on the screen is the result of the graphics chip drawing either a background or a sprite. Anybody know if that's correct?

<comment><USER7> I've done a bunch of NES development. You are correct that the framebuffer is not modified directly.

For the background, there are two layers -- the 2 pattern tables are 256 8x8 tile images each using 2 bpp color. The name tables are what is actually displayed. Each tile in the background is an index into one of the pattern tables. (Determined by a global selection bit).

However, in some cartridges, the pattern tables are mapped to RAM. This lets the game simulate drawing into the framebuffer directly. Some games use this for drawing variable width fonts, for example. Battletoads does some cool parallax effects. It turns out that the pattern tables have just enough bits to fill the whole screen with a monochrome image, so you could treat it as a framebuffer (it requires timing changes to midframe, though). I created a demo for that [http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14884](http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14884)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Nice post about getting started with GBA dev.

It is worth noting that to do anything serious on the GBA you need to use the tile+sprite modes for graphics. That is really the way to get decent performance.

The way it done in the article is still a good way to start out but you would probably transistion quickly to some other video mode.

Having a flashcart and running your homemade program on a real GBA is a really nice experience. I totally recommend it.

</comment><comment><USER9> I really wish there was a modern, standardized handheld with an open-source OS and SDK for learning, tinkering, home-brew apps and indie games. The Switch form-factor with detachable controllers, but focusing on 2D graphics, would be perfect.

<comment><USER10> You're describing the PocketChip exactly: [https://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip](https://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip)

        The harsh limitations of pico-8 are carefully chosen to be fun to work with,
        encourage small but expressive designs give pico-8 cartridges their own
        particular look and feel.

It's entirely open-software _and_ open-hardware, and it's focused on 2D indie gaming. It even has breakout pins.

<comment><USER11> PICO-8 is not by the people behind PocketCHIP, it's just bundled with it.

PICO-8 is available for desktop platforms as well, it is not open-source, and there's a 3D version as well, called the Voxatron.

Both are really cool projects, but not open-source software.

<comment><USER12> > and there's a 3D version as well, called the Voxatron.

Voxatron is a game (even though you can make expansions on the engine), and predates PICO-8

<comment><USER13> .. ah yeah, about that:

[http://www.lexaloffle.com/bbs/?tid=28325](http://www.lexaloffle.com/bbs/?tid=28325)

You can run PICO8 carts in Voxatron now. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Woah, first ever video game system I could make games for. I'm not sure if that adds to or removes from the magic...

</comment><comment><USER15> The Gameboy advance homebrew tutorials where my first introduction to C (before then I was using turbo Pascal.) Homebrew is great and devkitpro is really easy to mess with.

</comment><comment><USER16> Thanks for this post, it really is quite interesting! Tonight I'll try to set up the gba simulator and try to make something small in it as well. It looks quite fun :-)

</comment><comment><USER17> To the author: there's a standard header file <stdint.h> that might come in use for your various typedefs.

</comment><comment><USER18> not being able to get GBA to do 3d is probably a good thing, you can achieve a much better effect using billboarding and creating something like space harrier or outrun.

I'd create something using raycasting and prerendered billboards if 3d was a mush.</comment>


Red Programming Language: 0.6.0: Red GUI System - <AUTHOR> http://www.red-lang.org/2016/03/060-red-gui-system.html <comment><USER2> Rebol has always interested me, as a person that follows programming languages. There seems to be a spark of insight to it. I wasn't aware that there were free and open source languages inspired by it (or made by its author), nor had I heard about Red. I'm impressed by what I've seen so far and am going to have to take a closer look!

I have suspected that a well-enough designed programming language could subsume many programming tasks that are currently different languages or data formats. There are so many. It looks like Red is attempting to tackle that problem directly - I'm curious what headway can be made.

<comment><USER3> Rebol itself was open sourced a while ago, but IIRC that didn't include the GUI system, and few third parties seem to be interested. Last update to the github repo [1] was two years ago…

If we're talking about Amiga almuni projects, DragonFlyBSD seems to be the healthier one.

[1] [https://github.com/rebol/rebol](https://github.com/rebol/rebol)

<comment><USER4> "If we're talking about Amiga almuni projects, DragonFlyBSD seems to be the healthier one."

I've never heard it referenced in connection to Amiga. How is it related?

<comment><USER5> It was started by Matthew Dillon, known for several prominent pieces of Amiga software, like the DICE C compiler.

I've never used it, but supposedly several DragonFly features were inspired by AmigaOS.

<comment><USER4> It's here in the "Not a microkernel" section:

[http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=766375](http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=766375)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> For minimal introduction to Red -> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_(programming_language)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_\(programming_language\))

Coming up next -> [https://trello.com/c/11bblhBn/133-0-6-1-android-gui- support](https://trello.com/c/11bblhBn/133-0-6-1-android-gui-support)

Come chat @ [https://gitter.im/red/red](https://gitter.im/red/red)

</comment><comment><USER7> Looks phenomenal, but the syntax is way too alien for me personally.

EDIT: just went to this page, that's some crazy stuff with very little coding, never heard of Red or REBOL before, what language paradigm is that?

[http://easiestprogramminglanguage.com/easiest_programming_la...](http://easiestprogramminglanguage.com/easiest_programming_language.html)

<comment><USER6> Red/Rebol is basically LISP without parentheses (highly dynamic and homoiconic). Syntax is weird but easy to grasp. Red/Rebol is basically a All- in-One Package as a tiny executable contains a lots of useful functions for which you would require the use of big, heavy libraries in C/C++.

Red/Rebol allows for very clean (subjective term!), short and concise code, which allows for easy long term maintenance and also leads to more work done in less amount of time.

The syntax is a big deviation than the imperative C-Style languages people are used to. But if you ask me, then well, it is for the good.

<comment><USER8> REBOL syntax is even closer to Logo. Logo is well-known for its "turtle graphics" drawing system but beyond that it is actually a full-featured dynamically scoped (traditionally) Lisp.

<comment><USER9> >REBOL syntax is even closer to Logo.

Heck, now that you say that, I think I agree, intuitively, though did not think of it before (and I've been checking out Red lately, and Rebol some time earlier). (Used Logo as a kid.) I'll have to analyze why. Interesting observation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> For people who would like to learn REBOL: [http://easiestprogramminglanguage.com/easiest_programming_la...](http://easiestprogramminglanguage.com/easiest_programming_language.html)

<comment><USER11> See [http://re-bol.com/rebol_quick_start.html](http://re- bol.com/rebol_quick_start.html) and [http://re- bol.com/short_rebol_examples.r](http://re-bol.com/short_rebol_examples.r) first, then [http://business-programming.com](http://business-programming.com) . The beginnings of the same docs for Red are at [http://redprogramming.com/](http://redprogramming.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Yes please. More people need to be experimenting and working with reactive GUI for native.

</comment><comment><USER9> Apropos of Rebol (which inspired Red), Douglas Crockford has said that it was an influence on JSON, IIRC.

Also, Rebol is mentioned as a (readable) data format, here:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON)

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm digging this. While it's too early for me to dove in, I can definitely see this language having a future. It's nice to have languages questioning the current paradigm of what a language and syntax should look like. These kinds of experiments, even if they happen do go nowhere, are important for the future of programming. They help change and form opinions and inspire thoughts of what a programming language could/should look like. Each language created helps us pave the way for a more optimal future by seeing what doesn't work and what does work and then taking those notes of benefits and drawbacks to help create future technologies.

</comment><comment><USER14> Last I looked into Red someone said they weren't ready to draw attention to Red. I can't find the source now, but figured if Red's creators aren't even ready to attract attention, it's too early for me to hop on board.

Is there any truth to this? Whatever the case, I will learn Red eventually. It looks really awesome. The project has ambitious goals and seems to be achieving them at a good pace.

<comment><USER15> Red is still alpha and certain important features are still missing (see roadmap for details). But it is not some hobby language, Nenad, the author, is very dedicated as are other members of Fullstack Technologies (company behind Red), so you can expect Red improving at steady pace.

I am really glad you like Red. It is already useful as it is now. Check the Red room on Gitter (sorry, I am on phone now, so no link), there is lot of people willing to help you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> is the gui backend coded width direct windows system calls or there is a layer ? I'm thinking about the work to be done for other systems (linux, os x, ...)

<comment><USER6> As rebolek said, yes, there is a layer. The blog states that `Flexible backend support that can be mapped to virtually any kind of UI library.` which means that the abstractions used are good enough to support different OS. There are plans to support View (gui) on each platform (desktop/mobile) that Red supports. But it's going to take some time. Lots of other features to be added as well :D .

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> If they can deliver truly cross platform GUI toolkit it would be huge. No one has quite pulled it off yet. But frankly the task is so large it is hard to have much hope.

</comment><comment><USER18> Awesome work in less than 1 MB! Red could be a very interesting platform for iOT and embedded systems.

Red works also pretty neat with Wine. Just the shell cursor is not in sync with the input (usually one char ahead).

Is there way to run a GUI script without the shell popping up? Compilation of a script takes many seconds. Is that normal? Is there a FFI?

<comment><USER6> For wine issue, see [https://github.com/red/red/issues/1618](https://github.com/red/red/issues/1618) . Short Summary: You need the Consolas font installed.

Compilation takes a long time currently. It is normal. Fast Compilation Times are an objective for 0.6.5 release.

For FFI, see [http://static.red-lang.org/red-system- specs.html#section-15....](http://static.red-lang.org/red-system- specs.html#section-15.1)

As for `Is there way to run a GUI script without the shell popping up?` , IDK. So better ask it at the gitter chat room.

<comment><USER18> Thanks for the detailed infos!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> im not sure this language is popular enough to do this kind of post without taking the second-third paragraphs to explain to new people why its worth to get interested in this shiny new thing

<comment><USER20> It's from the language's own blog - and they have a perfectly valid "about" section on that page (It's a modern REBOL-inspired language).

What I found mostly interesting with the post (other than playing with the GUI examples after downloading the current build), is that they announce full I/O and networking support will be in 0.7!

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Okay so it's yet another programming language to add onto the other hundreds of them, it can make GUIs that are Windows 7 era sort of. The syntax looks way off from most other programming languages.

Honestly, this looks like a mess and I don't understand the purpose of it if it's meant to be used by real users. Why would anyone prefer this?

<comment><USER22> Kind of quick of judging something you don't know. I too find the syntax alien to me, but I don't automatically assume that means it is a bad thing or a bad syntax. If you look at smalltalk, LISP or forth they all have very different syntax which will seem alien but usually they are all quite simple below the surface and quite quick to learn.

Plenty of languages with familiar looking syntax which are horribly complicated. E.g. like C++ ;-)</comment></comment>


Washington's signature-writing machines rumble into the digital age - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/washingtons-signature-writing-machines-rumble-into-the-digital-age/2014/04/11/3bb38bc0-afad-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html?hpid=z4

<comment><USER2> This is so bizarre. The point of a signature is that it's an unreproducible way of marking that you have personally approved something.

There is no difference between an auto-pen, and just giving your secretary a stamp saying "the bearer of this stamp speaks with the authority of senator X".

The only difference between the stamp system I described, and an auto-pen, is that the latter can be used to trick gullible people into thinking a real human pressed a pen to the paper.

<comment><USER3> > The point of a signature is that it's an unreproducible way of marking that > you have personally approved something.

That is why that exists -- because it creates that _impression_. A stamp would look cheap and distant, a pen on paper looks mostly indistinguishable to most from a real signature.

If I write a letter to Obama and get a response with a signature, well I can at least dream that Obama could have signed it personally. If I get a stamp from a secretary, I know he definitely didn't.

It is about ceremony like the article said. Pen on paper signature has very long been an "important thing". Signatures bind contracts, put people in jail, sign loan applications, sell companies, etc, etc. That has been entrenched in the culture and it explains why these things are used.

<comment><USER4> A handwritten signature is basically worthless.

I make it a point to sign something mocking the form whenever presented with a signature box to make this very point.

<comment><USER3> Not sure what you mean.

It is obviously not worthless since it is required everywhere. So large number of people and organizations hold that it isn't.

> I make it a point to sign something mocking the form whenever presented with > a signature box to make this very point.

Again I am confused about that. So you are buying a car, a house or making a deal with an attorney, do you just write "fuck you" in the signature box, put a smiley face in there?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> We had one of these things in the back room of an alumni development office that I worked in 10 years ago, which was used to sign appeals and thank you letters to big donors. I was surprised when I saw it, because I assumed printing technology could do a pretty good job of approximating a signature. I was told nothing could copy pen on high-grade paper.

Another outdated signing technology I encountered when I lived in Taiwan was the "chop" ( 印章) which was used to sign everything from post office receipts to contracts. It was easily fabricated, and in fact I recall a case while I was there involving a lower-level executive at a bank who made one out of soap and pulled off a scam worth tens of millions of dollars.

But when I pointed out how easy it was to copy, my Taiwanese friends pointed out that Western signatures could also be copied.

<comment><USER6> > Another outdated signing technology I encountered when I lived in Taiwan was > the "chop" ( 印章) which was used to sign everything from post office receipts > to contracts.

They use something similar in Korea and I believe Japan as well. There are some differences though between signing and stamping your seal. Both systems have terrible security. For example, forgery in signature based countries is unbelievably common -- it doesn't even have to look like the original person's signature to "work" in most contexts.

Some interesting things about the seal system, at least in Korea but I think it's probably true in other stamping countries, I can give my seal to somebody to stamp on my behalf and the transaction is perfectly legal. Whereas I can't easily give somebody my signature ahead of time. We deal with this in signing countries through power of attorney paperwork and the person granted the power of attorney just uses their own signature on your behalf. It's basically the equivalent function, and terminating the power of attorney requires getting back physical possession of your stamp or 인감.

It's actually pretty common, with the large Korean diaspora, to give a trusted person in Korea your stamp so that you can maintain property or take care of other business or legal obligations remotely.

In court cases concerning forgery in signature countries, the victim is sworn in, shown the signed document and asked "is this your signature" and or "did you sign this" and the victim can confirm or deny it.

The equivalent in seal countries has been harder to prosecute and presents two kinds of "forgery". Either somebody using your stamp without authorization, or using a fake copy. It's kind of turned into a bit of a mess and after a couple thousand years, at least in Korea, they're moving towards a digital based signature system if I recall correctly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Is this article supposed to be suggesting that autopens are an example of "outdated, bloated government"? Because those machines look like they would be really cool to have (although also maintenance-heavy).

When I think about how much I love HelloSign, I can imagine the appeal of a physical machine that does the mundane work of signing for you.

Plus, it always drove me nuts when my elementary school sent home letters "from the Principal" and the Principal's signature had JPEG artifacts in it.

<comment><USER2> Gotta admit, those jpeg artifacts make his signature hard to forge.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> In an office I used to work in the personal assistants were adept at forging their boss' signatures for exactly the same reasons that these machines are used. I think this is probably quite common.

</comment><comment><USER9> This is a red herring if I've ever seen one. Honestly, why should anyone care about how members of government sign documents when we have such dire problems as ballooning inequality or an ongoing push toward totalitarianism?

<comment><USER2> "as long as we have big problems, nobody should discuss or work on smaller ones"

<comment><USER10> Well opportunity cost is a real thing. If a problem is small enough it may just not be worth worrying about at all.

I upvoted the article because I thought it was interesting, not because I thought the knowledge was useful or important.</comment></comment></comment>


Reddit is down - <AUTHOR> HTTPS://Reddit.com <comment><USER2> "For emergency maintenance" on the home page.

[http://www.redditstatus.com](http://www.redditstatus.com) shows:

 _In progress - Scheduled maintenance is currently in progress. We will provide updates as necessary.

Dec 20, 20:00 PST

Scheduled - We'll be doing a quick database swap which unfortunately requires a (hopefully) short downtime._

Is the "emergency maintenance" page the default? "Emergency", "scheduled", and "unfortunately" don't seem consistent to me.

</comment><comment><USER3> Confirmed here aswell (QLD,AU)

Edit: [https://twitter.com/redditstatus/status/811421037183135744](https://twitter.com/redditstatus/status/811421037183135744)

</comment><comment><USER4> ...and it's back.

</comment><comment><USER5> And this is Reddit after being called a good site.

</comment><comment><USER6> It's down for me as well.</comment>


The Department of Defense Wants You to Design Its New Biohazard Suit - <AUTHOR> https://www.fastcodesign.com/3063169/infographic-of-the-day/the-olympics-of-olympics-graphics <comment><USER2> The link is wrong?</comment>