Scott Forstall leaves Apple - <AUTHOR> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/10/29Apple-Announces-Changes-to-Increase-Collaboration-Across-Hardware-Software-Services.html <comment><USER2> Here are the major changes announced:

1\. Jony Ive's role is expanded from Industrial Design to Industrial Design AND Human Interface. In other words, Ive is the new Design chief for hardware and software. This is huge.

2\. Scott Forstall is out (after an interim advising role to Tim Cook). iOS goes to Craig Federighi who already oversees Mac OS. So, now iOS and Mac OS are overseen by the same person.

3\. Eddy Cue's role is expanded (he previously was in charge of iTunes, App Store, iBookStore, iCloud). He now also oversees Siri and Maps.

4\. Bob Mansfield will lead a new group called Technologies (wireless and semiconductor).

5\. John Browett of retail is out.

Overall, I view this move as extremely positive.

Tim Cook just elevated his most reliable and capable SVPs to assume more leadership role.

John Ive, Eddy Cue, Mansfield and Federighi have all proven to be pretty spectacular. Ive with industrial design, Cue with iTunes/AppStore/iCloud, Mansfield with hardware and Federighi with Mac OS.

Further, Tim Cook gets rid of his problem SVPs - namely Browett who didn't match the culture of Apple... and Scott Forstall (who advanced iOS in huge ways) but reportedly had problems with getting along with other SVPs and also who disappointed users with iOS6/Maps (and also in my opinion poorly designed and implemented Apple apps... appstore reviews for Apple apps have gone significantly down the last year or two).

Cook will probably give Forstall a good severance package with an agreement that Forstall doesn't go to a mobile OS competitor.

I'm actually more optimistic on Apple with this bold management shakeup. Tim Cook is showing the moves of a bold leader... and it's exactly what Apple needs.

<comment><USER3> I agree! I only see good in these moves.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Anyone who A) likes Apple and B) has ever been in a Dixons store in the UK will be overjoyed with the other departure, Browett (head of retail and previous Dixons CEO) who is leaving _immediately_ (compared to Forstall's year long "transition" departure). Dixons is everything that Apple should never be; terrible customer service, clueless minimum wage staff, horrible retail experience, and generally used only by people who desperately need something immediately or are too naive to find another store.

Recent news out of Apple regarding "cutbacks" at retail suggested he was nudging them in the same direction. Given that he got his first stock disbursement last week and was due _$58 million_ over the next few years if he hung around, I'm guessing he was pushed. Great decision from Cook if that was the case.

<comment><USER5> >> _Anyone who A) likes Apple and B) has ever been in a Dixon's store in the UK will be overjoyed with the other departure, Browett (head of retail) who is leaving immediately (compared to Forstall's year long "transition" departure). Dixon's is everything that Apple should never be; terrible customer service, clueless minimum wage staff, horrible retail experience, and generally used only by people who desperately need something immediately or are too naive to find another store._

I agree, the one thing that irks me though, is that I remember reading the guy was able to convert a sizable part of his Apple stock options only a few weeks ago. That's a quick & cool few million $$$ he made in one year at Apple without any apparent positive contribution :-/

<comment><USER6> Viewed from the other side, though, he did convert $3 million, yes, but Apple saved $57 million.

Apple can afford to lose the three mil. They'll make that back in a few days once somebody who actually _gets_ Apple's retail concept is running the show again. Somebody who respects the model that brought Apple top-of-the-charts customer service ratings. Somebody who respects that if you're making more money per square foot than any other retail store in the world, you might be doing something right.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > Scott Forstall will be leaving Apple next year

> Jony Ive will provide leadership and direction for Human Interface (HI) > across the company

And thus ended the reign of skeuomorphism at Apple. Or, at least, the reign of hyper-realism and hyper-whimsy in UI design. Jobs or Forstall always seemed to favour it, but could you imagine Jony Ive signing off on a Podcasts app where half the screen is a reel-to-reel tape that bounces when you pause?

<comment><USER8> That's what's so weird, though — that particular reel-to-reel design actually seems like a deliberate combination of both influences.

The skeuomorphic look of Podcasts was based on a physical product design by Ive's legendary design influence, Dieter Rams:

[http://www.cultofmac.com/176008/heres-the-braun-tape- recorde...](http://www.cultofmac.com/176008/heres-the-braun-tape-recorder- that-inspired-apples-podcasts-app-gallery/)

In retrospect, the tension inherent in this odd compromise seems palpable. It's like listening to the last album a band releases before they break up.

<comment><USER9> Skeuomorphing physical objects designed by Rams is still skeuomorphing.

<comment><USER10> Skeuomorphic design is rarely as little design as possible which is what makes the podcast design so iconic... er.. ironic.

<comment><USER11> Same goes for this stupid piece of shit <http://www.wthr.co>

<comment><USER9> I was so confused when I saw that app a couple of months back. Why spend so much effort creating an admittedly aesthetically pleasing design, name check Rams and his principles, and so completely miss the point of "as little design as possible" and have a non-functional spinner display for the current conditions?

And having such a prominent °F/°C switch is just baffling. This is not a function used regularly by the vast majority of users.

<comment><USER12> (Shrug) I don't know anything about this app but I don't immediately get the hate for it. It looks cool.

The spinner dial may not be functional, but it could be and should be, because weather conditions change incrementally and (more or less) predictably. If it's humid and cloudy and the barometric pressure is falling, then it would make sense for the spinner dial to move slowly between "cloudy" and "raining" positions, for instance.

And maybe the author of the app is an advocate of the metric system and wants to encourage users to treat the °F/°C switch as a prominent educational feature. Like I said, I don't know anything about it, but the amount of negativity being aimed at the app seems difficult to justify.

<comment><USER9> I'm not sure if that part of the comment was aimed at me: I don't hate it, I just think it fails at reaching or perhaps even understanding its stated design goals.

<comment><USER12> Mostly referring to 89a's criticism (" _Same goes for this stupid piece of shit._ ") I usually reserve language like that for politicians, Sony products, and iTunes, not cheesy weather apps.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Interesting that Eddie Cue remains the company fixer, taking on the quirky Siri and the flakey Maps app just as he was once given a completely fucked up MobileMe.

This is good news.

Even better news is Browett's ouster. The business with his cutting operational corners in retail was a very, very bad omen. If they'd left him in, he might have poisoned a very important well for the company. Hopefully his replacement is closer to Ron Johnson's set of retail and service values.

N'bad, Tim.

<comment><USER14> As much as Apple's software and hardware are talked about, Eddie Cue is also the guy largely responsible for negotiating Apple's superior media offerings which is arguably Apple's biggest lead on their competitors internationally.

<comment><USER15> Great, I'll remember to curse him the next time I can't buy something because it's EXCLUSIVELY listed in iTunes.

Not sure why this is downvoted. At least Apple's competitors allow me to buy their music as Linux user.

<comment><USER16> I just hate how slow the iTunes interface is on Windows, and the fact everything's in m4a/AAC, not MP3.

<comment><USER17> Isn't AAC a better codec than MP3 as far as quality per bit goes?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> People's reactions to this announcement are overly focused on Forstall's assumed support for heavy skeumorphism (and their excitement at his departure as lead proponent). I think his record as head of iOS since its inception is a much more salient issue.

Forstall led development of the fastest-growing, most popular computing platform of the past decade or so with, to be sure, a few notable screw-ups, but mostly incredible innovation and efficiency. While his departure does sound like the result of a power struggle that needed to be resolved, I really believe we're shortchanging his incredible achievements. Forstall's departure is not unequivocally or even clearly a victory for those who are firm believers in iOS and its ecosystem going forward. The only reasonable reaction is that we'll have to wait and see.

<comment><USER19> The thing about Forstall's achievements is he did them all under the shadow of Steve Jobs.

Is it that he had to take a more active role now, and not just be a Jobs man?

Is it that Jobs could bring talented people together and keep them there and Tim Cook is failing to do that?

I'm almost certain it's neither of those, but they serve to illustrate the point: when people think of iOS, Scott Forstall is not even close to the first person they think of giving credit to.

<comment><USER18> I agree that probably neither or those explanations is fully true, but I do believe that Jobs had the ability to harness conflicting personalities towards greater goals.

I do disagree with your last point, though —— I've watched every keynote for the past 6-7 years and Forstall has _rocked_ the iOS presentations. Perhaps I'm biased, but I very deeply associate him with the greatness of iOS, particularly Apple's ability to steadily pick off the "low-hanging fruit" features (e.g. 3rd party apps in 2.0, copy-and-paste, PC-free) with regularity and elegance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Just to be clear, he's not "leaving." He got fired. He got fired because after the map fiasco became apparent, he refused to send out an apology or sign his name to the one Tim Cook sent. (internal knowledge)

<comment><USER21> (No internal knowledge)

I'm surprised he got fired over maps. Mapping is _hard_ \- comparable to writing a search engine. Apple did as well as can be expected for a first attempt. They had some kind of problem with Google Maps, and wanted to build their own capability, which was never going to be easy.

He might have been fired if he cheated, by creating a well curated Valley dataset to prove to the other execs what a great job he'd done. That would annoy people.

I've heard rumors that he was seen as "better managing up than down" (impressing his boss, at the expense of results), and that doesn't strike me as something Tim Cook would like very much (both from his reported management style, and the number of stock options he has). I can see that being a last straw from Tim - "You screwed up, now own up to it. Or else."

<comment><USER22> If he did get fired over maps, it wasn't because mapping is hard, or that the app didn't deliver.

It would be because he over promised _and_ under delivered.

Sure, it was embarrassing to Apple to release a half-assed Maps app, but even more so to tout it just a few weeks earlier as being soooo good.

<comment><USER23> > It would be because he over promised and under delivered.

 _And_ alledgedly refused to own up to it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I think there's a few layers to this:

1) Forstall apparently wants to be CEO, and run the company. That puts him at odds with Cook (the CEO), and Ive (who wants to drive Apple's design decisions).

2) He's divisive. There's claims that neither Jonny Ive nor Bob Mansfield would talk to him without Tim Cook mediating. There's also claims that he "managed up" (showed off to the boss) better than he "managed down", and stole credit while deflecting critisism.

3) He was the guy in charge of Siri and Maps.

4) He was probably the one driving the post-Jobs war with Google.

Siri and Maps are Apple's way of fighting Google. Siri competes with Google Search, and Maps competes with Google Maps. There are reasons why Apple wants to spite Google, but the whole strategy could also be Scot Forstall's way of creating his own empire in Apple. Going head to head with Google requires lots of resources, which would all be under Forstall's command.

I don't think it's a good gamble for Apple. Google doesn't really hate Apple. I bet they'll port everything they can to iOS, as long as they can keep pushing their ads. Nexus might see Apple as a competitor, but Nexus isn't worth as much as adwords. As Eric Schmidt said in an interview - "It's their call".

If Apple goes down the path Forstall wants, they'll be going head to head with Google in the things Google is best at. If they stop trying to turn into a data / AI company, they can focus on what they do best - making easy to use devices which sell like hotcakes, and command a fat profit margin.

Android will hurt them, but as long as they focus on their core strengths (hardware, marketing, industrial design, interface design, and integration) they'll continue to do pretty well. They milked the iPod for a decade, despite there being plenty of better value competitors. They can do the same with the iPhone. They can do the same with whatever the next big thing is. I'd say going to war with Google will be at best a waste of time, and most likely a string of humiliating losses.

<comment><USER24> Spot on. I can't help but add that on the day Apple is getting a lot unwanted press, the company you paint as Forstall's rival, Google, is also on HN front page with a remarkably quiet announcement of a $399 10" 300 dpi tablet.

I hope this marks a low for Apple. All things considered, they could do a lot worse. Hopefully they will only keep improving.

<comment><USER21> The only reason I'd buy a Nexus over an iPad is if Google offers great integration (search + maps) on the Nexus, but Apple blocks them from doing the same on the iPad.

If Google was a hardware company (not a search company) I could see why they would screw over the iPad by not porting their apps. But Google is not a hardware company, most of their revenue comes from search. They want Google search (or the next generation, interfaced with their Siri clone) on every phone and tablet. That's why they make Android open source.

Apple can try to screw over Google, by blocking Google apps (or just not cooperating with Google on integration). They can offer their own search and maps, but they'll do a crap job, and end up screwing their customers. It might hurt Google, but it will also hurt Apple (as Android will have a big advantage).

The best thing for both companies is cooperating to get Google features on the iPhone. Sure, Apple may resent Android, but they are just going to have to suck it up. If it weren't for Android, Microsoft would be making the leading iOS substitute, and I can't see either Apple or Google loving that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Does anyone but me here listen incessantly to podcasts?

The latest Podcasts App from iTunes is a skeuomorphic mess. It has a superfluous animation of a reel-to-reel player of course. But it utterly fails at its most basic task: playing a goddamn podcast. But don't take my word for it, it has a 1.5 star rating on iTunes: <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/podcasts/id525463029>

Not to mention crashes... Apple used to make jokes about the Windows blue screen of death. Well, that's my new day-to-day experience with iOS apps. I'm constantly restarting crashed apps over and over.

Honestly, this is good news if Forstall really is the driving force behind the deteriorating user experience of many apps.

<comment><USER26> The Podcast app and the iPad Music app are both a mess, and both happened under Forstall as I understand it.

Trade away the lyric and podcast show info displays for kitsch wood veneer? And a reel-to-reel tape recorder simulator? Move seek controls to weird locations? Replace the easy-to-spot seek knob with a radio needle? Why? So many small steps backward, even if no single one was a deal breaker... negative trajectory is negative trajectory.

If this means they walk some of that silliness back, it's the best Apple news in ages. It started to look like designers who didn't actually use the apps were taking over.

<comment><USER27> I think that's unfair: The "everything is simplistic, monochrome gray" half of Apple's recent design may be more tasteful in many people's view, but it isn't any more _usable_.

I had many situations in which the auto-hidden scrollbars made it impossible to tell that there was more to discover in a scroll view. The CAPS SIDEBAR HEADERS have no triangle indicator anymore, it is impossible to tell without hovering if a section is closed or open & empty. The monochrome sidebars made Finder and iTunes noticeably less efficient in my usage. Many new-style toolbars like Xcode's are not customizable anymore. etc...

And all these things are in line with Apple's hardware design (where I enjoy the simplicity a lot more).

<comment><USER28> The last time I looked, save dialogs for example in Preview were broken too, as the horizontal scroll bar hid most of the lowest row even when you scrolled to the absolute bottom. What were they thinking? That's a pretty serious basic level bug that your UI is blocking your data. Don't they test such big changes?

All kinds of things are broken left and right in OSX but I guess that's just how it is. Mail hangs constantly and silently, you're just not receiving anything anymore. You can't close it (and force quit is not an option anymore?), you have to kill it from command line. The new calendar is brown faux leather all of a sudden, completely different than everything else. And you can't easily select which account you're viewing and setting events for.

It is interesting to note that software functionality and polish above a certain mediocre level just can not be reached.

Sure, sometimes it's understandable that stuff is totally rewritten from scratch since some fundamental new technology made it necessary, and you have to go to a state of more brokenness. But even when that is not the case, it seems software can't go beyond "90% complete" or so, at best it just reaches an asymptotic level where stuff is broken at the same rate as it is repaired.

After the major and hard stuff is done, what the heck are all the engineers and testers working on? If you're not in a hurry to create those big features any more, you could concentrate on at least doing the few new small features very well. But it feels as if OSX UI has taken as many steps backwards as it has gone forward from Snow Leopard.

This happens in other software too. For example Xnview and XFLR5 have both been developed for a long time and have had their ups and downs, and at the moment might be below 50% of their historical level of "perfection". But they're cheap/free mostly one man operations, multiplatform and have had massive rewrites and feature expansions. Often the developer might not even have some supported platform to test platform specific issues on, and it's a surprise they work as well as they do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> He oversaw Siri and Maps, two products which over-promised and under- delivered, and six months ago he cashed out 95% of his Apple stock.

I think it was evident he lost the power struggle and it killed his enthusiasm. His heart just wasn't in it anymore.

<comment><USER30> That's interesting, do you have a source for the stock cash-out?

<comment><USER29> Sure. Here you go:

[http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57425920-37/apple-exec- sco...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57425920-37/apple-exec-scott- forstall-sells-off-95-percent-of-his-shares/)

<comment><USER30> Thanks! Interesting quote:

        Although a major sell-off can sometimes mean an executive
        is leaving a company, that might not be the case with Forstall.

I wonder why this didn't generate any rumours of his departure at the time?

<comment><USER31> I think this is more interesting:

"Forstall has made it abundantly clear inside Cupertino that he would like to eventually be Apple's chief executive, adding that "he wears his ambition in plainer view than the typical Apple executive.""

<comment><USER32> Power struggle. It'll be interesting to see where he goes next.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Interesting that Jony will be overseeing UI. I expect a more minimalistic polish to upcoming interfaces. In other words, this is the beginning of the end for the skeuomorphism trend at Apple.

<comment><USER34> You're the second person that mentioned skeuomorphism. Could you please explain what it is and why it's a big todo? Most of my cursory google searches don't provide any particularly insightful definition of what it is. The blogs/rants usually just dive into why it's good or bad.

<comment><USER33> Skeuomorphism has been interpreted two ways - as decorative elements (leather stitching), and in functionality that attempts to emulate a real world object (page flipping in an e-book).

The former is just a matter of aesthetic preference. Where skeuomorphism gets dangerous is in the latter case.

A perfect example is the horrible address book in OS X. It looks like a book, and therefore the user expects it to function like a book. Yet, it doesn't. It's this area of interaction design that has run afoul at Apple.

<comment><USER35> You give "page flipping in an e-book" as an example of dangerous skeuomorphism, but then cite Address Book as why it's bad. I'm a bit confused. I get why you don't like Address Book, but do you really think page flipping in an e-reader is bad too? If so, why do you think that?

<comment><USER36> The dichotomy is what's dangerous. Address Book looks like an book, so I'll try to interact with it like that. When that doesn't work, I get confused, angry, and it's generally a "failure" from a UX point of view.

Neither form of skeuomorphism is inherently bad, but it's easier to shoot yourself in the foot and ruin the UX when you move from decorative to functional.

<comment><USER35> Yes, I get the complaints about Address Book. But "page flipping in an e-book" is either really poorly written, or was not referring to Address Book to begin with, since Address Book is not an e-book. Hence my question.

<comment><USER33> Indeed, they were intended to be separate examples.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Interesting timing on the announcement, given that the stock market is closed today and likely tomorrow too.

As both a fan and shareholder of Apple, I'm very pleased to hear Browett is out. The stories that came out a couple months ago about the changes in Apple Retail did fill me with admiration for his management style.

Also, given how Forstall is described in a Business Week profile[1], _and_ that Bob Mansfield is not only sticking around, but heading up a new team, I wonder if Mansfield laid out an ultimatum to Tim Cook about 'him or me'.

[1] [http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/scott-forstall-the- sorc...](http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/scott-forstall-the-sorcerers- apprentice-at-apple-10122011.html)

<comment><USER2> Regarding Mansfield, it's interesting that Apple announced his retirement a few months ago: [http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/06/28Bob-Mansfield- Appl...](http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/06/28Bob-Mansfield-Apples- Senior-Vice-President-of-Hardware-Engineering-to-Retire.html)

Then Cook convinced Mansfield to "unretire" and become an advisor: [http://gigaom.com/apple/shedding-light-on-apple-exec- drama-w...](http://gigaom.com/apple/shedding-light-on-apple-exec-drama-why- svp-bob-mansfield-unretired/)

And now, Mansfield heads up a huge new group called Technologies (wireless, semiconductor, etc).

What a roller coaster for Mansfield... but not just him, the entire management team because they're all working together and dependent on each other.

<comment><USER38> I think retaining key talent is one of Tim Cooks' most important jobs... and this shows pretty clearly that Mansfield was tired of his previous job, wanted to retire, and Tim found a way to create a position that interested him, or at least, would keep him around for a couple more years.

And this new section, I think, could be really important.

Apple has been really innovating in silicon and wireless technologies, and they're at a point where this will increasingly be the source of key competitive advantages.

I suspect Mansfield's job is to integrate this division, get it whipped into shape and then recruit a replacement to lead it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Can everyone saying "it's unfair to dump him due to Maps, because mapping is hard" realize it has nothing to do with the quality of the application, but the quality (or lack thereof) of the PR and management of customer expectations.

If Apple had come out 3 months before iPhone5 and said "Look, we really need to divorce ourselves from Google Maps as we can't be relying on an arch- competitor for such an important service, but please be aware that our new Maps app will have issues for several months as we work out the kinks based on customer feedback", and reinforced that message several times, the issue would have been close to a non-issue - and I think most people would have understood.

Instead they came out and said "new Maps is the greatest thing since sliced bread!" (paraphrasing) which was downright wrong and people rightly felt let down.

<comment><USER40> I don't know about that PR move you suggested. It's not very becoming of the market leader to publicly express that their own product that hasn't launched yet, and won't for 3 months, is buggy and incomplete - and to be patient with them while it gets fixed. I don't agree that calling it the best ever was such a great move, but that's what Apple does.

In a couple years, it won't matter what happened with the Maps launch. It'll be great by then. And nobody will be talking about it - just like 0 "average consumers" talk about antennagate.

<comment><USER39> It's not very becoming either that the CEO of such an image concious company has to make a such grovelling apology for such an embarrassing failure...

I agree that in the long term Maps will be great and people will have forgotten the ill-planned launch - except perhaps Scott Forstall.

<comment><USER40> You're right too, but that's a better move than a preemptive apology. They have the "report a problem" feature in the Maps app too, so it should help organically grow.

I do miss Scott Forstall on stage, he was a good presenter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Ive heading up "Human Interface" now. Say goodbye to the Rich Corinthian Leather on every third App.

<comment><USER42> hallelujah!

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> Another upside: iOS and OS X are now both run by the same person. Hopefully this means that when there is convergence/overlap between the two platforms, it will be done more thoughtfully, rather than taking something from one and awkwardly bolting it onto the other one a la Launchpad.

</comment><comment><USER44> At first I was shocked by the headline, but after reading the story, I actually think, this could be amazing.

Getting Jony Ive to oversee both industrial and software design, could lead to something very exciting, that provides the innovation, the software, has been lacking.

I have full confidence, in Eddy Cue, Craig, and Bob their new roles, and hope this means Bob will stay on longer.

As per the direct no apology firing of Browett.. Sweet! I was actually hoping for that. I was insane to gamble with the Apple stores reputation and service for a litle more margin. Having now seen a Dixons, I have no idea, why he was hired

</comment><comment> k-mcgrady John Browett didn't last long. Jony Ive overseeing UI should be interesting and might bring an end to the skeuomorphism bug at Apple.

I wonder how this will affect iOS. Forstall has been in charge from the beginning (afaik) so we might see some big changes and even better integration with OS X now that Craig Federighi is in charge of both teams.

Edit:

I wonder if Forstall's departure has anything to do with Mansfield staying on?

</comment><comment><USER20> So... can we now all agree that Tim Cook is a good CEO?

<comment><USER45> I don't know if anyone ever doubted Tim Cook as a good/credible CEO. The only issue is whether or not he can be jobs-level which is unlikely but remains to be seen.

<comment><USER3> I think jobs-level is unattainable really. I am just hoping Cook is a consistently great CEO.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Jony Ive is now responsible for HI guidelines across the company?

That could turn out great or horrible. (I'm not sure whether obviously great hardware designers can also be great UI designers.) I'm optimistic for now. Hopefully that means bye bye overt skeumorphism.

(I do think Apple's UIs have in the past always been above average, sometimes excellent. Their fashion choices, however, have at times been horrible. It would be great if Apple could change the second, not necessarily the first part.)

<comment><USER47> The man's got taste. That's good enough for me. Though I fear that it probably _is_ "bye bye overt skeumorphism", but what if the new ideology is "hello excessive minimalism/removing every last _pro_ feature left"? Let's hope not.

I don't use iCal or Address Book much, so I don't hate that stupid skeumorphism like the rest of the world (I like it though when it's used sparingly and isn't just keep getting in your way)...

<comment><USER12> _The man's got taste._

That was true of Jobs as well... but holy crap, have you seen his yacht?

Unfortunately, good aesthetic judgement in one area doesn't always carry over into other areas, even those that seem closely related. Human-machine interfaces have a functional aspect that can't be handled by dashing off yet another homage to Dieter Rams. Ive hasn't yet shown competence in this aspect of design.

<comment><USER23> > That was true of Jobs as well... but holy crap, have you seen his yacht?

On the other hand, have you seen the designs the approved for the future HQ?

<comment><USER48> To be honest, the new HQ design looks both bombastic and anonymous to me. I especially wonder what it's going to look like from ground level; I have a sneaking suspicion that the circular facade is going to make it look like you're at the back of the building no matter where you are. But it's very hard to judge these things in advance from a few illustrations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> Given that 50% of the posts talk about skeuomorphism and honestly I didn't know what it was, here's the definition from Wikipedia: _"A skeuomorph, or skeuomorphism is when a product imitates design elements functionally necessary in the original product design, but that becomes ornamental in the new product design"_.

<comment><USER50> It's a new word for an old concept: a decorative anachronism. Obvious examples from outside the world of computing include stone pillars in front of important buildings, and rivets on jeans.

It's abused here on HN as short-hand for app decorations that people don't like, like the infamous leather treatment on the calendar.

But there are plenty of "skeuomorphic" aspects to iOS that I never see anyone complain about (and sometimes compliment), like inertial scrolling or sliding on/off switches.

<comment><USER28> Inertial scrolling is tremendously useful, you can scroll more with fewer swipes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Can't wait to read this thread on Quora. [http://www.quora.com/Apple- Inc-2/Why-is-Scott-Forstall-leavi...](http://www.quora.com/Apple-Inc-2/Why-is- Scott-Forstall-leaving-Apple)

<comment><USER51> I'd love to read it too. Unfortunately, I can't: """ Sign in to read this page. You may only read Quora content while logged in.

Sign In with Facebook I Already Have a Quora Account

Why do I need to join to read this? Quora is a knowledge-sharing community that depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. """

I'm going to put out a request to 'stop linking to Quora', because we readily decry this shit when expertsexchange does it, but when a Valley Darling does it, it's OK?

(Interestingly, they're A/Bing 'forced' login - when I loaded the page again in an incognito window, a "Cancel" option suddenly appeared.)

(Edit: the cancel option is worthless, every answer is unreadable and covered with: """ Join Quora for free to read this answer.

Connect to Facebook Connect to Twitter

Connecting helps us surface content that is relevant to you. We'll never post without your permission.

I don't have a Facebook or Twitter account. )"""

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> Wow, this is great news all around. Jony Ive can only improve the Human Interfaces we've seen, and although he was obviously good at a lot of things, Forstall did tend to over-promise and under-deliver (Siri, Maps). This makes me feel great about Cook as CEO.

<comment><USER52> And good riddance to Browett.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> I'm not an Apple insider. Pushing Google Maps away seems to me like a political decision reserved for someone like Cook, not Forstall. If Cook shoved Google out and tasked Forstall with the impossible task of developing a better maps offering in what amounts to a year, this would be a sign that upper management jumped the shark, not Forstall himself.

<comment><USER54> Maps was started while Jobs was around, so at the very least you can't accuse Cook of that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> The writing was on the wall:

Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem? [http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/29/does-apple-have-a- sco...](http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/29/does-apple-have-a-scott- forstall-problem/)

Apple Retail Leadership Tells Stores It 'Messed Up' Employee Working Hours, Refutes Layoffs [http://www.nasdaq.com/article/apple-retail-leadership- tells-...](http://www.nasdaq.com/article/apple-retail-leadership-tells-stores- it-messed-up-employee-working-hours-refutes-layoffs-20120816-00774)

</comment><comment><USER6> Nobody's posted this yet, so I'll give it a try.

Dear Scott,

Could you please start up NeXT again? That would really rock.

Thanks, Bud

<comment><USER56> Forstall was the executive most like Steve Jobs within the company, so it will be interesting to see what he does next. He got forced out, just like Steve did. Now will he start a new company and get acquired and become the CEO down the road?

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> Everyone's mentioning Maps/Siri, but my most recent disappointment with an Apple product is the UI, performance and structure of Game Center for iOS.

I've never been inclined to use it before the recent release of Letterpress which necessitates its use and it a steaming pile of you-know-what.

It's so jarring going from the lovely minimalism of the Letterpress game into parts of Game Center to manage match/friend requests.

It's the sort of experience that's had me worried about Apple, and this is (tentatively) good news, as I gather he was heading up the part of Apple responsible for such products.

</comment><comment><USER58> I'm actually surprised that they allowed John Browett to receive his first batch of grants before they showed him the door. Didn't seem like he had long after some of his recent communication problems.

<comment><USER59> I'm not - it's part of the requirement to provide some renumeration (esp. in stock) for departing executives regardless of tenure as their inside knowledge is very dangerous in the wrong hands.

It's also a lesson to the hiring team: you know you'll be paying some decent compensation regardless of who you hire or for how long, so learn to do your job well and hire the right person. Ounce of prevention and all that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> Everybody here talks about Ive being opposed to skeuomorphism , does anybody have any examples of what the UI would look like under the leadership of his design principles? I can't even imagine it.

<comment><USER61> Like this? <http://wthr.co/>

(although I have to say, it looks beautiful but is an awful app)

<comment><USER9> God save the design world if an app with a spinner display for non-linear, non-rotational, non-user-controlled data and a prominent switch that maybe 5% of the users will use more than once is the future of Apple's UI.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Looks like he got shitcanned for the Maps fiasco.

<comment><USER63> Sounds more like the outcome of a long and bloody power struggle to me, though the maps fiasco may have helped decide the outcome.

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> I'm relieved about this. Pretty much all of the missteps at Apple that I've cared about were related to this guy. I'm confident that Ive will clear things up soon.

</comment><comment><USER65> Who wants to bet that Marissa called him already? Seems like the perfect fit for the new Yahoo mobile oriented strategy, does it not? I have no clue to be honest.

<comment><USER66> Keep in mind he has a year transition period at Apple. After that, Apple likely gave him a list of verboten companies as part of the severance. Google is certainly on that list. Yahoo may or may not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> While mere speculation, I do not think he is leaving over Maps directly. I personally think there was internal tension over making sir Jony head of leadership and direction for Human Interface and he quit over that -- also there is the possibility that he was perhaps looking to run Apple as CEO at some point but that does not seem to be in the cards.

</comment><comment><USER30> Most interesting part:

         John Browett is leaving Apple

So his views on retail really did not fit Apple after all.

<comment><USER11> Not that interesting, anyone familiar with his work could tell you he's a bad fit

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> I feel very sorry for Apple. Scott was a major catalyst that made things happen at the company.

<comment><USER69> ...but on the other hand, there's been speculation for _years_ that his management style was very bad, and the source of frustration in the engineering teams, as well as his friction with the industrial design team.

<comment><USER9> So he was just like Steve then?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> This makes me incredibly excited for Apple. I would rather that Siri and Maps hadn't belly-flopped the way they did, but iOS is getting really long in the tooth, and Apple have made some seriously weird design decisions with the platform.

</comment><comment><USER71> Scott Forstall is already rich thanks to Apple, but he lost a lot of money by being fired. 75,000 RSUs vesting in 2013, 100,000 RSUs to vest in 2014, and 75,000 in 2016. That's a lot of dough ($151M at today's share price).

</comment><comment><USER72> Well, if he truly wants to emulate Jobs he needs to have his wilderness years outside of Apple's bosom. As the prophecy has foretold he'll return in 11 years to retake his spot as rightful CEO.

</comment><comment><USER60> I think one of the worst examples of UI design by Apple is the iCloud website. It's just so slow and clunky. I can't believe more people aren't complaining about it.

<comment><USER73> Yes, it is slow and clunky, but better alternatives are next door. So why complain?

<comment><USER60> I actually like to use it for the calendar and the notes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER74> Bold action often results in great things.

Apple has always strived to couple great hardware design with great software. Excited to see them bring the two departments closer again.

</comment><comment><USER75> Interesting to see confirmation of Bob Mansfield's continued role in the company. He'll lead a new group, "Technologies", responsible for wireless and semis.

<comment><USER7> It's unusual for Apple to hype something like this, but in that note they mention Mansfield's semiconductor team "have ambitious plans for the future". I doubt that simply refers to making the A7 faster and more power-efficient.

<comment><USER76> ARM on desktop, perhaps? No one has ever designed a desktop-class chip with ARM architecture, so that's one 'ambitious' direction one could take.

<comment><USER77> Hahahaha.

So you've never heard about what the ARM was originally designed for?

<http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html>

I guess that was a while ago! And it certainly was desktop-class. It beat the pants off a 12 MHz 286.

<comment><USER76> Ok, got it. :) Let me prepend my original statement by "Since the A500 and the subsequent failures, ..."

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER78> John Browett is leaving too - that didn't last long.

</comment><comment><USER79> Lots of supposition and subjectivity.

I'm pretty much clueless on this topic, but from a quick scan this seems like pure gossip. I've learned nothing at all except for various HN opinions, and I have trouble understanding if and/or what the substance is here.

What am I missing? Put another way. What does anyone on HN actually uniquely know about this situation. Could someone help simplify this?

</comment><comment><USER80> Looks like Maps fiasco was too much to handle. Didn't they ask their SVP of hardware to leave when they had antennagate?

</comment><comment><USER81> Wasnt he supposed to be the next Steve Jobs? He was noticeably missing from the last event. It was strange that they didnt have ios updates to talk about (that is when he gets on stage).

<comment><USER82> My observation was that _Scott_ wanted to be the next Steve, with his autoskeuomorphic behavior. That he spent the last 15 years working for Steve is probably also a factor here.

I think some people assume he was being groomed for that position, but I never sensed that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER83> Is there a chance that the move away from skeuomorphism and putting OSX and IOS under one umbrella is a response to the direction Microsoft is taking with Windows 8?

</comment><comment><USER84> I guess this is the serious blow to Apple. Many people across the board will reconsider their position with the shares of APPL. Time to take the profit.

</comment><comment><USER85> I'm expecting a move away from Skeuomorphism towards minimalism now that Jony Ive is the head of "Human Interface"

</comment><comment><USER86> Shame. He had great stage presence at the Apple shows.

</comment><comment><USER87> Is this an instance of Think Different?

</comment><comment><USER88> I wonder what this means for the possibility of future Apple devices having haptic touchscreens.

edit: What was the downvote for?!

</comment><comment><USER89> Sacked for Apple Maps?

</comment><comment><USER90> Hooray!

</comment><comment><USER38> It wasn't always obvious that Cook would be the CEO of Apple after Jobs left. This is the job Forstall wanted, but that Apple didn't want him for. The job went to Cook, and so Forstall was either going to have to find a place to be happy in Apple or he'd be on his way out.

This gives a smooth transition to the large teams under him over the next year or so, in exchange for more vesting of his shares.

People saying this is about Maps or Siri or Skoumorphism are focusing on relatively petty issues.

This is about how is going to be the leader of Apple. Tim Cook turned out to not just be the interim CEO, and waiting a year for the transition is respectful all around-- and is enough time for everyone to know what the right direction for their lives is.

Forstall may want to do a startup-- where he'd certainly be a CEO.

</comment><comment><USER91> I cant wait to hear reactions from the fanboys when Cook is out : "Oh yeah , best opportunity ever for Apple...", Whatever Apple does is ,strangely ,always a good decision from its followers perspective...

</comment><comment><USER92> man behind skeuomorphism in apple's ios?

I remember watching him in a keynote showing the piano app on iphone when they announced appstore/iphone. I was blown away by that demo.. those were the days maan..</comment>


Now that steve's gone ... - <AUTHOR> http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/26/now-that-steve-jobs-has-finally-gone/

<comment><USER2> The Paul Keating Insult app is a potential goldmine...</comment>


The Many Flavors of "Low-Code" - <AUTHOR> https://www.infoq.com/articles/many-flavors-low-code <comment><USER4> As someone who writes code for a living, I have to admit I'm intrigued by "low code" software development tool. Or at least tools that use less code that traditional software development.

I don't see writing code as being the main value I deliver. Instead, I see that value as being the ability to take high level and often vague business requirements and turn them into something a computer can execute.

Sometimes, I'll use tools like Node RED and Unreal Blueprints and can see the value their kind of approach would bring to application development. I write code where I need code, but can define data flow through the application visually by connecting components together. I find that this helps me understand at a glance an applications inputs, data flow, and outputs. I'm not sure how well this would actually scale, though. It's not like this approach hasn't been tried over and over for the past few decades.

<comment><USER5> >> I'm not sure how well this would actually scale, though. It's not like this approach hasn't been tried over and over for the past few decades.

I'm not sure either, but i remember reading about hospital management software for the middle east implemented using low-code.

So maybe, the current software ecosystem, which is brilliant for innovation, finally found the trick ?

</comment></comment><comment> munk-a My personal favorite[1] for low code is Excel - nothing is quite like trying to budget time to support the work other departments are doing (sales, accounting, BI) and get redirected at "pure development work" only to end up having to either convert or support the complexities someone built into an Excel spreadsheet over a period of two years.

Low code is, IMO, at it's best when it's restricting the solution set to a small category of problem, the more specific the better, and the more limited the the low code is at it's ability to interact with that problem the better as well - I've always ideally viewed CSS as a sort of low code setup like this, the backend will render some complex tags in a reliable format - <USER2> the UI folks can go through and mark it up as needed to make it pretty... CSS has, I think, failed to deliver on this goal at this point - UI/UX has always ended up needing to rework the markdown in some way to make things mesh well - and with react it's losing even more power, but I was hopeful about it for a time.

[1] /s, just to be clear.

<comment><USER6> OH lovely having worked at a company that in part was derailed by some opaque excel spreadsheet - you will have to forgive me if I am not so sanguine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> It feels like we always get a bunch of "low code"/"no code" solutions right when one computing paradigm is nearing maturity and the next computing paradigm is just getting started. Ironically, we get them on both sides - <USER3> mature technology gets commoditized by tools for business planners, while the new technology is still toy-like enough that you can do interesting stuff without hardcore CS knowledge.

The end of the minicomputer era (1981-1986) gave us rules engines and expert systems for minicomputers, and spreadsheets for PCs. The end of the PC era (1995-2000) gave us Visual Basic and Delphi for GUIs and HTML, Flash, and "View Source" for the web. The end of Web 2.0 (2007-2009) gave us website builders and Flash game builders for the web and Interface Builder for the iPhone. We're reaching the end of the web/mobile/cloud era, seeing a lot of those domains being commoditized, and yet blockchains still feature mobile GUI wallets and cut & paste token contracts.

In between transitions, when the next computing paradigm is growing fast, you actually need to know how to code. Performance gets pretty important when people actually start using your product, features need to be pumped out before the underlying platform is ready, and best practices aren't yet well- known.

<comment><USER8> Re: _Performance gets pretty important when people actually start using your product_

Depends on your product. Facebook and Twitter require a mass audience to be viable, but not all businesses rely on the "network effect" for success. There are a lot of niches with a small audience.

<comment><USER7> The "niche product for a small audience" business model is itself more popular at the edges of a technology cycle than in the middle. At the beginning of a technology cycle, the infrastructure is primitive, the markets are unknown, and so entrepreneurs have to look for small markets of passionate early- adopters that don't care about how primitive the technology is. At the end of the technology cycle, the really big use-cases have already been filled by giant companies that you can't realistically compete with, so you have to look for the smaller niches that aren't worth it for them to enter.

In the middle of the technology cycle, when the mainstream market is aware of the technology but sitting on the sidelines waiting for it to become useful and the infrastructure is just barely getting good enough that you can build high-quality consumer products, there's a mad land-grab to gobble up these giant markets before anyone else does. That's when coding ability is really crucial, because the infrastructure is not yet good enough that just anyone can build a product that's "good enough" for a mainstream market, but it's good enough that the really skilled, dedicated, and talented can.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Low Code / BPM / Doodleware solutions are always the pits. Instead of letting you write code, we will give you either a half arsed UI (always Eclipse based) that spits out a million lines of horrific XML, or else they will give you an insanely complicated UI, that spits out a million lines of XML. And there's always a "script node" or "java callout" that end up with 90% of the smarts.

And I hope you like testing in real environment (SIT or Prod, sometimes you get to choose!) as they are almost always impossible to unit test.

For a sensible perspective on low code, as always, Mr Fowler has some well thought out advice: [https://martinfowler.com/bliki/BusinessReadableDSL.html](https://martinfowler.com/bliki/BusinessReadableDSL.html)

<comment><USER10> As someone who works on a "modern" low-code platform, your comment reads like someone who hasn't used the state of the art.

I've had to manipulate actual XML maybe once in a year; and usually because of an insane legacy DB schema. I'm sure it happens but I don't see it much. In fact XML isn't a huge factor. You know it's there, but you don't really care.

Also they aren't "always Eclipse based", lately they are browser-based, which will irritate people just as much (but the web is something more of a "growth market" than Java IDEs).

Modern platforms have built-in testing suites. I have seen individual rules or UIs with hundreds of tests. (Process models remain hard to test, though, much to everyone's frustration)

The plugin problem is real, even in modern platforms. That said, pick any platform - the web browser, an IDE, even a game engine. For a lot of users, entirely dependent on plugins. It's just part of life.

<comment><USER9> What's an example of a state of the art platform? If I have used one I didn't realise it was good (and although I do use one of these platforms on a daily basis, it is old, eclipse based).

The browser based ones also drive you crazy, at least you can right click to find all the hidden configs on the IDEs...

I agree plugins are a real problem.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> In my experience, the lowest-of-code solutions involve tuning a stack to the domain or environment. Most existing frameworks try to be everything to everybody, which gums things up with complexity and/or debugging headaches when they don't work as expected.

The best frameworks are kits of decomposable or separable parts that make it easy to tune to your org, including throwing out parts your org doesn't need. Trim trim trim.

Do keep a library of handy add-ons, but don't pre-gum-up your stack by including them by default.

The downside of this approach is that you must know the organization fairly well.

</comment><comment><USER11> Low code is designed for some specific purposes. If all you need is what it is designed for, that's totally fine.

The biggest problem is their price and their nature. Many of them are really expensive. And many of them is closed source, which is pretty ironic because everyone is open source nowadays. Except it can be dominate in that area, I don't think it is valued for a professional developer,

The customisation is poor if you want to do something that is is not designed for, and maintaining is also a nightmare if it is written by a non-disciplined developer.

For quick prototype and you can't hire skilled developer, yes. But don't expect you can do too much with that tool and with that person. The biggest bottleneck in software developer is the people not the tech.

</comment><comment><USER12> Surprising this left out the dominance of Salesforce for business process and general CRUD type apps.

<comment><USER13> It's interesting that nothing open source has emerged in this space.

Lots of choices in the closed source space. Salesforce, Airtable, Quickbase, Google AppMaker, Knack, Zoho, etc.

<comment><USER14> Actually Yazz.com is open source and a low code environment so this is not true

<comment><USER13> Ahh, hadn't seen that before. I stand corrected.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Low code is definitely the more high level and declarative way to code where best practices are taken care of by platform itself in various areas which matters the most while doing software development.

You don't have to focus much on "HOW to get it done" but on "WHAT needs to be delivered"

Here is the list and comparison of some of the best low code platforms out there in the industry

\- Zoho Creator \- Appian \- Microsoft PowerApps \- Mendix \- OutSystems \- Google App Maker \- Quick Base \- TrackVia \- Salesforce App Cloud \- Nintex Workflow Cloud

[https://www.pcmag.com/roundup/353252/the-best-low-code- devel...](https://www.pcmag.com/roundup/353252/the-best-low-code-development- platforms)

</comment><comment><USER16> Would be cool to see "no-code" as one of the flavors here. I'm betting on it being possible to empower non-engineers to make apps in a startup I'm working on AppsCanvas ([https://appscanvas.com](https://appscanvas.com)) which is a platform for building out apps with integrated an API / backend. Basically a whole app building & deployment system wrapped up for non-technical people.

I've been putting a lot of thought into low-code, and what the right escape hatches are to allow developers to use a tool like mine without feeling constrained. That's proving to be tough to balance though!

</comment><comment><USER17> We have explored many platforms from zoho creater, coda, airtable, outsystems and mendix. While we are building DronaHQ. ([https://www.dronahq.com](https://www.dronahq.com)) Would love to get your feedback as professional developer and citizen developer.

</comment><comment><USER18> It will be sad when the vast majority of developers are automated away, it's going to hit them so hard because most of us don't believe it will happen due to hubris. Most think it will take some general AI to happen when we don't need that.

<comment><USER19> I would imagine a pretty good chunk of the work is close to being automated. I imagine (perhaps in ignorance, I am not a web or systems dev) that computers are close to being able to engineer stuff like site reliability (at least for small to medium scale businesses) without human input. problems with well defined "good" or even optimal solutions are low hanging fruit for machines.

that said, we're a long way away from feeding a copy of the latest c++ standard into a machine and getting a working compiler out of the other end. no matter how well written, it is still quite a feat to turn a human-language specification into executable code. even harder is to turn a loosely defined set of requirements (often gathered from people who don't really know what they want in the first place) into a solid spec in the first place. perhaps this is the hubris you are speaking of, but I think most developers who are more than brainless code monkeys are quite a ways away from losing their jobs.</comment></comment>


Where can I meet smart people if I've graduated from college? - <AUTHOR>

Where do I go to find other people who are smart? <comment><USER2> Grad school.

</comment><comment><USER3> <http://pursuit.me/>

<comment><USER4> <http://www.meeteor.com> \- we'll introduce you to people who fulfill your goals, or have common interests and backgrounds.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Your question is a bit perplexing.

\- Smart people implies that there are stupid people.

\- Your difficulty of finding smart people implies that they are few and rare (in your vicinity).

Conclusion: You'd should perhaps ask yourself which category you truly belong to. Or maybe you truly were the only smart person from your collage...

When I was in collage I met a lot of smart people, they were good at different things.

Protip: What do you mean with "smart"? Good at mathematics? Programming? Social skills? Ambitious? Often when people want to hang around "smart" people they confuse them with "rich people with lots of connections". And those people ain't necessary smart yo' they be dumb as a door knob. Privileged however.

<comment><USER6> Generally, the most telltale sign of "not-smart" is someone being easily swayed by emotion or persuasion, gullible, pandering, and full of misplaced idealism or concern. Often not-smart people will exhibit these things and you feel embarrassed for them. Examples are people who fall for stupid sales pitches, executives that fall for buzzword technologies, blatant pandering to an authority, or someone is simply confused by basic conversations.

Some people get good at masking "not-smart" by doing things like repeating back what is said to them as their own idea later in the same conversation (very weird) or attributing their belief to someone else "Bill told us that Microsoft Bob was going to be big, so we installed it on all the systems at our company."</comment></comment>


"Rails Is as Rails Does" - Dreamhost Clarifies Their Comments on Rails - <AUTHOR> http://blog.dreamhost.com/2008/01/10/rails-is-as-rails-does/ <comment><USER2> I see that Dreamhost has raised their bid: now they're offering a free hosting account to anyone who can help make Rails work on their system.

Six whole dollars per month! Why, to justify an extravagant development budget like that, the upside must be _enormous_!

</comment><comment><USER3> >DHH also went so far as to recommend we not treat the Rails community as a 'paid vendor' and to 'wipe the wah-wah tears' from my chin. While that is a very valid request, I don't believe it applies in this situation.

Great. What a way to spoil good will of the community.

>Additionally, our business will not be significantly affected one way or the other by the future actions of the Rails community.

Then why are you whining? Why did you write that 2st post in the first place?

>That said, I would like to see Ruby on Rails reach toward that critical mass of users, and thereby become a larger portion of our business.

Huh? You just said it's not.

>If Ruby on Rails were made to be simpler to use with a wider range of hosting environments, big and small, that would ultimately benefit Rails itself far more than it would benefit DreamHost or me personally.

Sure, maybe it would but what are YOU doing to help? Whining is NOT helpful!

I'm not a Dreamhost customer but these idiotic posts have made me resent Dremahost and I will avoid ever dealing with them and ever recommending them.</comment>


How the Black Sea shaped the ancient Mediterranean world - <AUTHOR> https://www.historytoday.com/reviews/around-other-pond <comment><USER2> There is hardly anything in this article on the influence of the Black Sea on the Mediterranean world. The article is a review of a book on Mithridates and the Kingdom of Pontus (which had a lot of contact with the Mediterranean states).

<comment><USER3> I was also really disappointed about how it did a good old bait and switch as well. Grab your interest by mentioning hannibal, then switch to talking about some guy's research of a little known personal kingdom on the shores of Turkey. Hardly what the title would lead you to believe.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The archaeology of Crimea is pretty interesting; abandoned Soviet submarine bases, Genoese castles, Pontic and Byzantine ruins. Chersonesus was one of the most fascinating places I've visited ... and you can go swimming amidst Greek/Pontic ruins. I'm assuming the rest of the Black Sea coast is similarly interesting.

Kind of difficult to get there as an American at this point, but for everyone else.

<comment><USER5> My socioeconomic determinism conspiracy theory for the filibustering of Crimea: one can find deepwater ports anywhere, but how else were the Moscow elite supposed to send their children to Artek?

Artek then: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NepI7BTYpnY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NepI7BTYpnY)

and now: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMTN6udbBKc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMTN6udbBKc)

<comment><USER4> Thanks for that; stayed in a hotel near there when I visited Yalta.

I tried using Ukrainian politeness on people in Crimea in ~2011 and got what amounted to "speak Russian or die Americano running dog," so my theory of what happened there is considerably simpler.

<comment><USER6> Most Crimeans were speaking Russian as a first language well before the takeover (the Russian Empire took the peninsula directly from the Ottoman Empire and started moving Russians in after). You'd be about as likely to encounter Crimean Tartar as Ukrainian.

<comment><USER7> That's why I find the Crimea situation so complicated, making the big assumption that I have the history correct.

You have the Tatar Exile during WWII, people re-settling the area, and then later Crimea was borderline on being independent or part of Ukraine during the dissolution.

So you end up with the fact that, whether right or wrong, Crimea is full of ethnic Russians who were lukewarm about being part of Ukraine in the first place. So as sketchy as the whole annexation was, was it wrong? I honestly can't say it is, which is probably why Russia felt they were able to take that chance.

<comment><USER8> > So as sketchy as the whole annexation was, was it wrong?

As a Russian who generally thinks that both Russia and NATO need to back down from the pissing contests they engage in...

Yes, it was wrong. Ukraine was done wrong by it. It was not done legally. Even if it was done with respect to the doctrine of self-determinism (I generally approve of secessionist movements), it was not done _correctly_. There are correct means of going about secession, and the War in Donbass was not one of them. It was a thin pretense for other geopolitical ambitions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalatta%21_Thalatta%21](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalatta%21_Thalatta%21)

(I wouldn't be surprised if the turkey scenes in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ_2YTkxWug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ_2YTkxWug) were filmed in the former Pontus. The clip itself shows the _telenovela_ can be found in any culture...)

Edit: people in the Pontic region traditionally were into (vertical) transhumance instead of transhumanism.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumance#Caucasus_and_nort...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumance#Caucasus_and_northern_Anatolia)

<comment><USER9> ...?

<comment><USER5> Sorry, had to manually url-encode the exclamation marks. Try now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This article covers a broader time frame of the history of the region. I think it's a bit much to say, as the article says, that the Greeks were "gobsmacked" by the rise of the Kingdom of Pontus. The area has a very long history in the ancient world.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontus_(region)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontus_\(region\))

</comment><comment><USER11> As the topic is about the Black Sea, this could also be interesting for the audience - one of the oldest gold treasures found (4,600 BC to 4,200 BC): [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_Necropolis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_Necropolis)

More pictures in the Bulgarian version of the article.

</comment><comment><USER12> For folks interested in this, Fernand Braudel's magnum opus "The Mediterranean and the Mediterranean World in the Age of Philip II" is an incredible work of history, studying the Mediterranean and the societies around it.

<comment><USER5> The "making of" is almost as impressive: Braudel was an involuntary resident of Oflag XII-B while working on it.</comment></comment>


Why A.I. Is Just Not Funny - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/blog/why-ai-is-just-not-funny <comment><USER2> "They "trained" C.A.N. on more than 81,000 paintings from 1,119 artists ranging from the 15th century to the 20th century. The A.I. experts wrote algorithms for C.A.N. to emulate painting styles such as High Renaissance, Impressionism, and Pop Art"

None of this is "Intelligence" it is just averaged copying.

Intelligence requires self awareness. Until computers become self aware this is all hokum.</comment>


Popcorn Time repository is now self-hosted - <AUTHOR> https://git.popcorntime.io/

<comment><USER2> How come not GitLab ([https://about.gitlab.com/](https://about.gitlab.com/)) ?

<comment><USER3> Stash is nice, I don't see a reason to use GitLab over it IMO.

<comment><USER2> Sorry I meant because of the license. Stash has limited number of users, and requires you to upgrade the license to have more than 10.

GitLab CE on the other hand allows unlimited users for free.

That's what I thought at-least, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

<comment><USER4> Atlassian is very OSS friendly and provides unlimited user open source licenses for all of their products: [https://www.atlassian.com/opensource/overview](https://www.atlassian.com/opensource/overview)

EDIT: That is to say, they provide a special unlimited license for all of their products to OSS projects.

<comment><USER5> Isn't Atlassian afraid of getting sued, though? It seems like a HUGE risk to take on a project like Popcorn Time. Then again, Atlassian makes millions of dollars annually.

<comment><USER4> The open source license is for self hosting, not OnDemand, so I'm not sure if there are really licensing implications there or not. Does an OSS license equate to an endorsement in a legal sense? I don't seem them generating a lot of ill-will from a PR stance.

<comment><USER6> I would actually think that providing hosting to Popcorn Time would be positive PR: people who contribute to Popcorn Time would spend the most time interacting with Stash and are unlikely to be morally opposed to Popcorn Time. While people who are opposed to Popcorn Time are much less likely to check what Popcorn Time's repo is being hosted on or who gave them a license... Basically, Atlassian's generosity would only be noticed by Popcorn Time supporters.

That being said, I'd still much rather see Popcorn Time hosted on an open- source platform like Gitlab.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Is it safer to register a domain with a swedish registrar? - <AUTHOR>

Would registering to a Swedish registrar provide some protections against the ICE seizure hullabaloo that is going on right now? <comment><USER2> Safer than what?

<comment><AUTHOR> Safer than large U.S. or larger European mainstream registrars.</comment></comment>


Apple iSight - <AUTHOR> http://www.minimallyminimal.com/blog/apple-isight <comment><USER2> This is the sort of design Apple could execute before it became so successful it started believing its own bullshit. It's a design that embodies the joy the designer had designing it. It's not relying on marketing collateral convincing we rubes that it is magical. It's not relying on holding all our photos hostage or our faith in the sunk cost fallacy when it comes to all those apps.

It is a product that directly competes on design and aesthetics. Not corporate strategy.

<comment><USER3> Has it occurred to you that maybe it is your perception of Apple that has changed, and not the company? Because Apple has always had a corporate strategy.

<comment><USER2> My perception of Apple has changed. In my previous perception I never would have written anything positive about it. And at the time the device came out or was on the market I would have harped on its pomposity via aesthetics...and it's still their.

But this is the sort of design that gets executed when a portfolio still matters. It just does what it does and isn't about corporate synergies in the cloud or lock-in subscriptions or users making naked pictures of themselves type activities. It's not different for the sake of just being different...lens specs are printed on the lens because it is a lens and printing specs on the lens is useful...and so it wasn't up for debate by a marketing committee who don't know or care about lenses.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I remember getting one of these at WWDC 2003. That was a nice surprise. Wonderful design.</comment>


CS Unplugged - teaching CS witout a computer - <AUTHOR> http://csunplugged.com/index.php/activities.html <comment><USER2> They concentrate on algorithms. Good for them. That is how it should be taught.

<comment><USER3> I say, wrong. That's not how it should be taught. Well, actually, concentration on algorithms is good, but AFAICT, it's only algorithms there.

Part of the reason Computer Science is such a great subject is that it combines theory with practice in such an easy and elegant manner. There's a reason I got into CS before I got into math - because CS (well, at the time, it was more like just Java than CS) gave me an opportunity to make something and see results. This type of response from a subject fosters creativity and interest, and overall makes the subject more motivating and interesting. If you only teach algorithms, all of this is lost.

Also, you've got to admit it, someone who knows all the standard algorithms but can't design one of their own or code/debug it is useless.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting. I got my 'CS' degree from a college that correctly called it "Computational Science" ... not "Computer Science." I guess it isn't that much of a stretch for me to think of learning CS without a computer.

</comment><comment><USER5> ugh, sure fire way to cut out anyone who actually likes to build stuff.

</comment><comment><USER6> Ridiculous. Next they'll say you can teach Sex Ed without...</comment>


Artificial Personas and Public Discourse - <AUTHOR> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/01/artificial_pers.html <comment><USER2> It worries me that "artificial personas" are being systematically vilified. We don't have AGI; these personas are created by humans running software, publishing content also made by humans running software. It is stereotypical pseudonymous publishing. That is legal and encouraged and explicitly protected.

Until computers can decide to publish by themselves, this is just another form of human publishing. Calling them "bots" is a slur. They are pseudonyms of the real live human running the software that posts under these names.</comment>


Olivia de Havilland, sophisticated star of Hollywood's golden age, dies at 104 - happy-go-lucky https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/olivia-de-havilland-dead-gone-wind-adventures-robin-hood-star-was-104-720040 <comment><USER2> As a Go player, my favourite anecdote about Olivia de Havilland is that her father became so addicted to the game in Japan that his wife divorced him. He married a Japanese woman and went on to write the first Go book written in English.

<comment><USER3> Wikipedia and other sources seem to paint a darker tale.

> Lilian and Walter met in Japan in 1913 and married the following year; the > marriage was not a happy one due in part to Walter's infidelities.

From [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_de_Havilland#Early_life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_de_Havilland#Early_life).

And apparently in his wife's own words

> spoke like God, but behaved like the Devil

from [https://books.google.com/books?id=nmjetV92THsC&pg=PP1#v=onep...](https://books.google.com/books?id=nmjetV92THsC&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=spoke%20like%20god%2C%20but%20behaved%20like%20the%20devil&f=false)

It doesn't seem like Go was the reason for the divorce.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Wikipedia maintains a list of films now in the public domain. de Havilland's films are of the right age to be on the list, but don't appear to be. Most of the films on the list got there from failure to renew the copyright, a requirement which has since disappeared.

> Prior to 1988, all motion picture films published after 1909 with a > copyright notice where the 28th year of copyright would occur before 1988, > had to be registered and before the 28th year, the registration had to be > renewed, or the copyright for the film would expire and it would enter the > public domain. This would apply to all films registered for copyright prior > to 1960. Copyright renewals became optional in 1988.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_in_the_public_do...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_in_the_public_domain_in_the_United_States)

<comment><USER5> Copyright has abandoned any pretext of serving a public interest - it's reason for existing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Deathlist 2020 [1] looks to overtake a 17/50 record set in 2017.

[1]: [https://deathlist.net/](https://deathlist.net/)

<comment><USER7> Wow. Imagine for a moment being a famous person of a certain age and making that list. As if strangers on the internet are betting on, almost plotting your demise.

<comment><USER8> I think the list is interesting in a cultural sense, but I agree that the way it works is disturbing to say the least. Consider the discussion post for Phillip Mountbatten[0] for the kind of enlightened discussion the site hosts...

0: [https://forums.deathlist.net/topic/8107-1-prince-philip- duke...](https://forums.deathlist.net/topic/8107-1-prince-philip-duke-of- edinburgh/)

<comment><USER9> It's interesting to compare how these two are described:

Prince Philip - Casual racist

Henry Kissinger - <AUTHOR>

Philip said some racist things, and Henry is only alive because the US doesn't let its citizens stand trial for war crimes. Henry going to hell this year would be a bright spot in an otherwise shitty year.

<comment><USER10> Not holding my breath for Henry, as the deal he signed with the Devil obviously made him immortal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I had no idea she had a legal thing named after her. Of course, it was well before I was born. But, still.

The article mentions in passing Hattie McDaniel, one of her co-stars in _Gone With the Wind_ :

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattie_McDaniel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattie_McDaniel)

<comment><USER12> It also mentions _Every Frenchman Has One_ , which was a "best-seller". What are recent US best-sellers explicating other cultures? _Educated_? _The City of Falling Angels_?

(I'm not sure either of those portray the other in a sympathetic light. Considering that de Havilland immigrated to france, I'd bet hers did.)

 _Leap of Faith_?

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> The Adventures of Robin Hood is incredibly entertaining to this day. Claude Rains is an excellent villain, and the action is fast-paced. RIP Golden Age of Hollywood, RIP Ms. de Havilland.

</comment><comment><USER14> It'll be a nice tradition if everybody who turns 100 publish a short letter for the next generation documenting lessons they've learned and advice they would give. RIP Havilland.

<comment><USER12> I haven't read it yet, but _The View from 80_ may be interesting.

[https://www.csmonitor.com/1980/0917/091702.html](https://www.csmonitor.com/1980/0917/091702.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> A woman of principle, successfully navigating her way between the communists and the anti-communists in Hollywood

[https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-olivia-de-havilland- bucked...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-olivia-de-havilland-bucked- dalton-trumbo-and-helped-save-hollywood-from-itself)

</comment><comment><USER16> Hitler himself may have watched her in Captain Blood or Robin Hood. She lived to be astoundingly old and was supremely talented.

<comment><USER17> Another time marker: an American slave ship survivor may have seen her in Gone with the Wind.

[https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/last- slav...](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/last-slave-ship- survivor-descendants-identified/)

<comment><USER16> Haha you win. That is absolutely bonkers to think about.</comment></comment></comment>


Rails Creator's New Custom Hypercar - <AUTHOR> http://www.secretentourage.com/lifestyle/autos/pagani-zonda-hh/

<comment><USER2> But... but... but... they're not a _startup_! They're just a... a... _small business_!

Must be all that crazy _blog money_ they have pouring in. I'd have a car built by spacemen too if I had an award-winning blog!

</comment><comment><USER3> To those who don't know of DHH's passion for cars - he is a huge car guy! He races Lamborghinis on the weekends - He has/had a White Gallardo LP560-4 that he raced at Autobahn Country Club.

<comment><USER4> and has moved on to club racing: <http://twitter.com/dhh/status/20155491804>

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Wow! That looks pretty awesome. It's interesting to see what buy/do to express themselves when they have the money. Personally, I couldn't care less about fast cars but I'd be straight onto one of those Red Bull Air Race planes and a private airfield. What would you do?

<comment><USER6> Agreed on the car - but each their own.

Me? I'd buy or build a hockey rink. I've always wanted one, ever since I started skating as a kid. Yeah, not very flashy but maybe I'll hire some extravagant architect to create something really unique/different. Actually... I kind of like that idea. Dream updated...

<comment><USER6> Wow no love for hockey or ice rinks, or unique architecture...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> 37 Signals go truly rockstar, from their "Appetite for Destruction" beginnings they're entering their "Use Your Illusion" period, just hope they don't end up going the way of "Chinese Democracy"

</comment><comment><USER8> The first paragraph of the article basically says the only reason it is a custom car is because of US rules and regulations, but then the end mentions he will never drive it in the US and it will stay in Italy..

<comment><USER9> You might have read it that way but I don't think that was the author's intent. In fact, the Zonda has gone out of production (twice so far), so the only way to get a new one is to order one custom.

Not that "production" versus "custom" means a lot in such a low-volume car.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I like driving a great deal and have thought about buying something serious but can't get over how radically ten reliability drops on cars that are much over $100k.

My favorite so far, though, is the GT-R. It drives like a video game. If I owned one I am sure I sure I would get in trouble, though.

There are some really great old cars out there that are not particularly expensive. I am looking around for an e30 or e36 m3...

</comment><comment><USER11> While tacky, this makes me wonder what the market is for custom built cars. You always see these nifty concept cars that never see the light of day. Yachts are already custom built, this would be a sort of... land-yacht, I suppose, occupying the same niche in terms of status signaling toys, while at the same time being more practical.

</comment><comment><USER12> _Fuck You Money_ for EU citizens

</comment><comment><USER13> Is that a rocket engine a la batmobile?

[http://www.secretentourage.com/wp- content/uploads/2010/08/zo...](http://www.secretentourage.com/wp- content/uploads/2010/08/zonda3-copy.jpg)

<comment><USER4> no, it's just the 4 exhaust tips collecting into one outlet

<comment><USER13> But surely flames still do shoot out?!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> My esteem for DHH just fell a few notches. What a tacky, ugly, gratuitous waste of money. Obviously he's entitled to spend his money however he likes but this doesn't show much class.

<comment><USER15> Criticizing one's fantasies doesn't show much class.

<comment><USER14> Hardly. If any of my friends let me buy a car like that I'd be angry as hell once I came to my senses.

If you must dump money on a car at least get something that doesn't look like a running shoe, like a jag or something. All that one is missing is a blonde bimbo in the passenger seat.

<comment><USER15> Dude, some people just like cars, you know?

Welcome to nobody cares what you think about their hobbies. Population: 6 billion.

<comment><USER14> _Welcome to nobody cares what you think about their hobbies. Population: 6 billion._

That's one thing we have in common at least.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Foxpass (YC S15) helps companies manage employee access to internal systems - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/29/y-combinator-backed-foxpass-helps-small-companies-manage-employee-access-to-internal-systems/

<comment><AUTHOR> Foxpass started here as a "Show HN" back in February ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9039027](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9039027)) and now we're part of the current batch.

Would love your feedback and of course I'm happy to answer any questions!

<comment><USER2> You and your team must be saints. This is arguably one of the most boring and monotonous problems to solve. Good luck!

<comment><USER3> Every technical problem is boring and monotonous to somebody, the trick is to find someone who can get interested in it and pay them to deal with it.

With any luck I'll be paying Foxpass to solve this one for me in the near future.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Currently we're using JumpCloud, prior to that we used OneLogin before they had a ton of outages.

Would love to switch to you guys, since integrating with Google Apps as an LDAP/RADIUS server is our one-and-only use case.

Question: Do you guys guarantee encryption-at-rest for key storage? What about 3rd party master encryption keys?

<comment><AUTHOR> We'd love to have you as a customer! We don't store any plaintext secrets. Passwords are bcrypted and public keys can safely be public. If I misunderstood your question or if you want a more in-depth answer, please drop me a line: aren@.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is similar to [https://www.meldium.com/](https://www.meldium.com/), a team password manager that helps with user permission management. It's a problem I've been waiting for someone to successfully solve. Good luck!

P.S. Showed this to another YC startup and they want to try it.

</comment><comment><USER6> I worked at OneLogin and always lamented that we didn't care about managing engineering-level access at all, esp since that was actually my job at OneLogin. Definitely impressed with some of what I see.

</comment><comment><USER7> Nicely done guys for spotting the schelp blindness. I have been at many large enterprises where due to the pain of manging passwords everyone uses the exact same pass.</comment>


Trump asks vaccine skeptic to lead commission on 'vaccine safety' - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-to-meet-with-proponent-of-debunked-tie-between-vaccines-and-autism/2017/01/10/4a5d03c0-d752-11e6-9f9f-5cdb4b7f8dd7_story.html <comment><USER2> Because hundreds of studies done across the globe showing their safety and necessity are wrong. So are all the researchers who have broadened the Autism spectrum , thus allowing thousands of previously undiagnosed kids, and adults, to get the help they needed. Forget peer review, huge study groups, the ability for others to replicate results independently... you know that whole pesky scientific method. Lets just believe a few politicians and celebrities, and their feelings...

<comment><USER3> On the other hand, I don't want a non-skeptic who doesn't care about safety to start just injecting drugs into everyone.

It's good to have a skeptic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I would like news articles to characterize the subject and themselves to be characterized:

Subject: 95% Conjecture, 5% fact Discussion: 25% Conjecture, 75% fact

People deceiving themselves or others by claiming facts, asserting a subject as the truth, is harmful since many people will not read critically. Having a disclaimer up front seems responsible, "Cigarette's kill", etc.

On the other hand what I'm asking for is a potential violation of the freedom of speech.

<comment><USER5> You always get to the problem of "decider of truth" in these kind of approaches.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> The leg braces make you faster Forrest, that way you can run away faster from Poliomyelitis and the truth.</comment>


Autonomous Brakes May Have Stopped Berlin Truck Attacker from Killing More - <AUTHOR> http://gizmodo.com/autonomous-brakes-may-have-stopped-berlin-truck-attacke-1790571821 <comment></comment>