Why soap works so well on most viruses - <AUTHOR> https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1236549305189597189.html <comment><USER2> I thought it was cells that had a bi-lipid membrane and that viruses had a capsid instead (made of proteins).

Wikipedia says "Some viruses are enveloped, meaning that the capsid is coated with a lipid membrane" \- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsid)

I find the article confusing:

1\. Why does removing the lipid layer destroy the virus if most viruses don't have one in the first place?

2\. How can soap be effective against "most viruses" (as the article claims) if only "some viruses" (as wikipedia claims) have a lipid layer?

3\. Why doesn't TFA mention the capsid at all? I would have thought it should be on the diagram at least.

Edit: A simpler explanation that doesn't have these problems and agrees with all the facts I know is that soap destroys proteins, which is what viruses are made out of. See [https://www.quora.com/How-do-detergents-denature- proteins](https://www.quora.com/How-do-detergents-denature-proteins)

<comment><USER3> You're reasoning from first principles in contradiction of statements of scientific fact that are being communicated to you, however imperfectly. Resolving the contradictions in your own understanding does not constitute a proof. The simplest explanation is that you do not yet correctly understand and that you need further information.

<comment><USER4> You sound well reasoned, but are not countering or answering his questions with anything of substance.

<comment><USER3> He is taking his current understanding and coming to the conclusion that the mechanism by which soap renders viruses inactive is 'actually' because it destroys proteins. I am pointing out that this exercise is futile and does not result in useful knowledge.

If a domain expert says something that does not make sense to you, there is a small chance that the domain expert is wrong, but it is more likely that what the domain expert is saying is correct and your own knowledge is incomplete.

<comment><USER5> Maybe lay people might also share this person's misconceptions/concerns, so it's in the interest of the common person for a subject matter expert to provide them with some citations or supplementary reading (where to go to learn more on your own time).

Critical thinking and asking questions should be welcome and reinforced in the public sphere to improve our collective intelligence and buy-in for hand washing, proper respiratory etiquette, etc. towards containing and eradicating this pandemic, among a multitude of many other greater societal good reasons.

<comment><USER3> Sure. You will notice that I was not criticizing anyone for thinking critically or asking questions. I was pointing out something that I still believe to be a failure of critical thinking, and that we could know a priori that this was a bad way of reasoning about things without reference to prior knowledge.

I notice that my opinion is unpopular with people interested in this topic, and I'm certainly familiar with being wrong about things, but in my opinion going from "an expert told me that envelope viruses are deactivated when soap destroys the envelope" to "the real reason that soap deactivates viruses is because it destroys proteins" on the basis of the semantics of a line from a Wikipedia entry is categorically problematic on the face of it.

Most of us here are in the habit of relying on our ability to discover knowledge by reasoning about limited information. It is how one solves puzzles. It is not how one learns things about the world. Believing that we know something which we don't know is dangerous in this situation. Convincing others that we know something we don't know is also dangerous.

What I am doing right here is exactly attempting to improve our collective intelligence. I am certainly not dissuading anyone from washing their hands. I am encouraging people to second-guess themselves before they second-guess others.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> Anthony-G > The soap dissolves the fat membrane and the virus falls apart like a house > of cards and "dies", or rather, we should say it becomes inactive as viruses > aren't really alive.

I always presumed that viruses, similar to other microorganisms, are alive. Until reading the above quote, I had never considered the idea there was any question about this. I was intrigued by the concept that they many not really be alive so looked up the Wikipedia article [1] which says that

> Viruses are considered by some to be a life form, because they carry genetic > material, reproduce, and evolve through natural selection, although they > lack key characteristics (such as cell structure) that are generally > considered necessary to count as life. Because they possess some but not all > such qualities, viruses have been described as "organisms at the edge of > life", and as replicators.

One of the Wikipedia references is _Are viruses alive? The replicator paradigm sheds decisive light on an old but misguided question_ [2] which looks at different replication mechanisms as a continuum rather than a simple "life vs non-life" dichotomy.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus)

[2] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5406846/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5406846/)

<comment><USER6> As a biochemist, i think it's absolutely clear that viruses are not alive, because they don't _do_ anything. No metabolism, no signalling, no changes in structure, no use of energy or materials. They just float about! It's only when they encounter a cell that anything happens, and then it's mostly the cell's machinery doing it.

If i was a molecular biologist, i would probably think it was absolutely clear that viruses are alive, because they contain a genome, and proteins encoded by the genome, and they use the proteins to make more copies of the genome. What else is life?

<comment><USER7> The virus isn't the lifeform. The virus is just one component needed for the lifeform to exist and reproduce. The lifeform is the infection.

<comment><USER8> So the lifeform is the disease? I think assigning "lifeform" status to an illness is not really helpful.

Viruses are just replicators. Grey/Green/Brown/Bio goo. They are just dumb machines made by brute-forcing (fuzzing) more complex machines' immune systems.

Viruses might be a different branch on the RNA-replicator tree. Probably when the first replicators started some found - again via brute-forced mutations - that there are some replicators that they can take advantage of to replicate themselves.

And it just seems that closing this security hole is neigh impossible as long as we don't start to seriously tinker with that low level of "life" (eg. cellular machinery, transport, nucleus, messenger and transcription security).

<comment><USER7> > They are just dumb machines made by brute-forcing (fuzzing)

But that's no different how the rest of biology works. A parasite like Giardia is relatively just a dumb machine brute forcing itself through my immune system.

<comment><USER8> No, no, of course not. You're right. The same exploitation of complexity- difference can be observed all the way up the hierarchy. But that doesn't make it "living". (Or if you define liveness on a spectrum, like we sort of do with sentience/consciousness, then viruses are alive like rust is conscious.)

It's very likely an invariant of complexity. Trade offs (and friendly turtles) all the way. And of course evolution doesn't optimize for QALY at all. So it's not surprising that it hasn't really spent much resources on closing the gap. And now we try to do it because we do find it a better goal than "just" thriving in every imaginable niche on whatever complexity it's possible. (We want to maintain our complexity plus occupy more niches.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The author wrote an article for Guardian - [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/scienc...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science- soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants)

</comment><comment><USER10> What I'd like to understand is why viruses are less prevalent in the summer due to more humid air, but yet they can exist in the moist body and spread from moist spray from coughs / sneezes.

I haven't been able to phrase the question just right to find the answer to what seems like a conflict.

I think the spray is just a method of transmission with the virus "hoping" to dry out quickly on a dry surface before it falls apart.

But inside the body?

<comment><USER11> I was under the impression it was heat, not humidity, that caused viruses to become less effective.

<comment><USER12> It's hotter inside your body on most days of the year, even if you live close to the equator.

<comment><USER11> Also more humid!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> so this explains why 20 seconds, if anyone would explain that at the first place and not just say out of the air wash for 20 seconds I would remember the motivation and understand and do that otherwise I forget what I do not understand. So typical of the shallow news not to explain.

<comment><USER14> > so this explains why 20 seconds

Where? I've read the thread three times now and I still have missed the part about 20 seconds. Why not 10 or 30?

<comment><USER15> It's a complex balance between the effectiveness of the behaviour and the willingness of people to perform it. That's the usual reason, anyway.

So long as you're not stripping away layers of skin, I don't see why 30 seconds wouldn't be better.

<comment><USER14> Sure, but grandparent spoke about an explicit explanation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I always wondered why surgeons wash their hands using soap (with extreme attention) before operating and not with disinfectants/alcohol/etc.

<comment><USER17> The other way to think about it is the difference between 'clean' and 'sterile'; having no influential chemicals present (clean), and having no living units capable of replication present (sterile). They are actually different concepts that are caught up in the generic concept of 'clean'.

A surface full of massacred microorganisms might be 'sterile' \- nothing there can support life, even if given sugar, water, energy, etc. But it's also certainly not clean. If any of the debris from those dead microorganisms could trigger your immune system, were poisonous, or were chemically active they could alter the outcome of a chemistry experiment or trigger an immune response.

Disinfectants by definition kill organisms, but don't remove the constituent components of the organisms from the area. Bleach & alcohol in high concentrations (but not pure!) will also destroy most any organisms (but will not in itself remove the debris of those dead organisms).

Soaps will link chemicals and molecules to water that is flowed over them, and will remove all of those constituent components along with the water. And if the soap is strong enough, it will also dissolve and destroy smaller organisms in the process. A surface washed with soap will no longer have any debris on it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I've always heard a different explanation from the one in the article: that the soap isn't actually killing many viruses or bacterial cells, but rather just getting them off your hands and down the drain so you're less likely to infect yourself when you inevitably touch your face (I assume I'm not the only one who has been discovering this week just how hard it is to not touch your face). Is that not correct?

<comment><USER19> I think that's the case with bacteria, and maybe viruses that are put together in a different way. But from what I understand, these particular viruses are particularly vulnerable to soap.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Dupe: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22517397](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22517397)

Original source: [https://twitter.com/PalliThordarson/status/12365493051895971...](https://twitter.com/PalliThordarson/status/1236549305189597189)

</comment><comment><USER21> This is fascinating and great information for a layman like myself. Especially how the virus uses the cell's machinery to create the virus' own components (rna/lipids/protein) which then self-assemble. incredible.

</comment><comment><USER22> Detergents always work, unless organisms have a thick layer of stuff other than lipids just like human body. Btw, protein denaturants also work, such as bleach

<comment><USER23> Washing your hands with bleach is not very convenient.

<comment><USER24> It isn't, and it can also be really hard on your skin. If you want to avoid infections, it's probably a good idea not to damage your skin too much.

However, bleach could be a good option for cleaning certain surfaces. For example, countertops, hard floors, and bathrooms. I think restaurants also use it to clean tables and maybe in their kitchens.

Since it's getting harder to obtain certain supplies, it's good to know all of your alternatives.

<comment><USER25> It's an essential cleaning supply for that sort of thing.

Another important point is that if you need something particularly sterile (well beyond what is needed for everyday applications), pressure cookers are essentially a home version of an autoclave, and many of the stronger ones are actually pretty decent at it. Be careful of course though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I wonder if some soaps are better than others at destroying the virus. Dawn is famously good at cutting grease, used for cleaning up oil spills off birds, etc. I wonder if it's also better than other soaps at destroying the lipid layer of the virus, or if something like Lava or GoJo would be even better.

<comment><USER6> Shampoo might be best. Most shampoos contain sodium lauryl sulphate, also known as sodium dodecyl sulphate, which is the gold standard for destructive protein-unravelling detergents in laboratory work.

Might!

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Does anyone knows if liquid soap is as effective as soap bars?

I have this argument over and over agin with my wife.

<comment><USER28> Interesting! My girlfriend told me off recently after I washed my hands with a soap bar because we ran out of liquid hand wash. For me it's the reaction of water and soap all together that matters, this happens regardless of the state of the soap (foam, hard, liquid...).

<comment><USER29> Foam ≠ good soap. Almost all commercial soaps are decent soaps (for the purpose of killing organisms/viruses) that vary only in how nice they treat your hands, and how they smell. Consumer soaps add foaming agents specifically so people think "they're working" \- the foam does nothing. Bar soap is still soap, and works' fine - it's just less convenient to use.

Go find an industrial or laboratory soap - that stuff is pure SDS/SLS, flows like olive oil, will remove the top few layers of your skin, and doesn't foam at all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I have been washing my hands with the hottest temperature my skin could handle given it is plausible that heat would inactive more of the viruses.

I have read studies saying this doesn't help.

The skin on the back of my hand is becoming irritated, i am applying lotion.

<comment><USER31> Water temperature has to be about 60-65C and be applied for a period of minutes (longer that bacteria) to harm viruses. Max water heater temperature is about 48C. You're only damaging your skin which will make it more susceptible to pathogens.

Source WHO: [https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/Boiling_wate...](https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/Boiling_water_01_15.pdf)

<comment><USER32> At least some water heaters can be set a fair bit higher than 122F/50C (good for dishwashers), but then you'd really want to use a temperature mixing valve for anything you might touch directly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Not that it particularly matters because it sounds like all soap is pretty effective, but I wonder if a grease fighting dish soap would be the most effective of all. Don't mind me, I'll just be doing dishes for the next few months.

<comment><USER34> Alternate soaps to avoid dry hands, since dish soap will strip the oils.

Tangentially, if you are handling raw chicken, and then try to use antibacterial soap, it cannot penetrate the grease from the chicken. The trick is to use dish soap first, followed by a second wash with antibacterial soap.

<comment><USER35> Skip the second wash. Antibacterial soap is worthless at best and potentially harmful.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Does anyone have any advice about using REST or RPC against viruses?

<comment><USER37> Enough XML can kill anything.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Reading through the thread on Twitter, someone mentioned UV light is very effective in killing viruses. is this true?

<comment><USER39> Washing hands is always the best option. UV might work but you probably would have to do it for a long time and it wouldn't be as effective as soap

<comment><USER40> It would also potentially burn your hands.

<comment><USER41> Yeah, not a good idea for hands! It can be good for disinfecting inanimate objects though.

<comment><USER42> It needs to be a UVC disinfectant bulb/source though, so massive cancer risk increase (and VERY bad for your eyes).

<comment><USER43> Curious why UV is bad for eyes and skin ? The energy kills cells ?

<comment><USER42> It's UVC, so it's ionizing radiation. The sort you put on sunscreen and wear UV-blocking sunglasses to keep from getting skin cancer because of.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Smart people of HN: what are your thoughts on the antiviral properties of flavonoids like kaempferol?

</comment><comment><USER45> TL:DR Soap (and solvents, and alcohols for that matter) reacts with (and therefore breaks down) the types of molecules that make up oils and fats and the viruses in question are held together by fats.

<comment><USER7> The ability for soaps to clean hinges on the same physical manifestation that keep creates hollow cells for life: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micelle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micelle)

<comment><USER45> Depends on if your definition of clean is to render the contaminant inert (which is going to basically always involve some sort of chemical reaction) or to just move it elsewhere.

If you want to wash the problem down the drain then making large clumps out of the offending molecules helps. If you want to actually alter the offending molecules then you'll probably not want something that makes clumps.

This is why doctor's wash their hands while janitors wipe down surfaces with disinfectants.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> The use of twitter as a blogging app boggles my mind.

<comment><USER47> Why not?

It has millions and millions of users, is incredibly easy to share and propagate info, linking is common and easy to understand. The format basically requires concise summaries prior to longform content so you know what you are getting into. You go where the people are.

<comment><USER48> Because it's a terribly distracting method for presenting

<comment><USER48> Ideas of any depth or nuance. This exacerbates an already-problematic tendency towards trivialization on our communications.

<comment><USER49> I see what you did there and I like it.

<comment><USER50> I missed the 1/9, 2/9 and the prescience of counting how many tweets your thread will take.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> *hydrophobic

</comment><comment><USER52> Why is this 25 tweets when something like "lipid envelope" would suffice?

</comment><comment><USER4> Years ago the University of Oregon did research on bacteria and hand washing.

Their finding? It's not soap, it's scrubbing in water.

Scrubbing hands under water did all the work. Neither anti-bacterial agents or soap had almost any effects at all.

I imagine it's not unlike why a stream is safe to drink but a non-moving puddle is not.

<comment><USER53> This article is specifically about viruses, not bacteria. It claims specifically that water alone is not effective against viruses like COVID-19, because they stick to the skin too strongly. It also claims that soap and water together _are_ very effective by ripping the virus apart chemically.

Additionally, streams are not generally safe to drink from, despite how pristine they may look[1].

[1] [https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/index.html)

<comment><USER4> How is no one is worried about viruses in moving water vs a puddle? (I've learned a lot about survival over decades, you can't tell me this is new information)

Just like the panic around COVID-19. China, who has more infections and more deaths than anywhere else combined, is already calming down. Yet the rest of the world is just starting in full panic mode.

Some people (medical leaders and scientists, not nut cases) are 100% convinced we should panic. This is not rational.

We have _scientific_ proof that COVID-19 is not a big deal. Yet here we are.

<comment><USER54> > We have _scientific_ proof that COVID-19 is not a big deal.

Are you one of those people who think Y2K was hyped up too?

China is calming down because of a _tremendous_ amount of hard work, and some draconian restrictions on personal freedoms. The virus didn't just die down by itself. We shouldn't panic. But we should also not be calling it nothing.

On a meta-level, this is why societies don't value prevention. And why firefighters who pull people out of wrecked cars are considered heroes, but Nils Bohlin, the inventor of the 3-point seatbelt, usually is not (I think they're both heroes, in different ways). Because we have people who deny there may problem in the future, and then after it's prevented through the application of a ton of someone else's effort and ingenuity say "So it didn't turn out all that bad after all. See? I told you."

<comment><USER4> > ...one of those people...

Ad hominem

Proof question: How many rats do you need to test to determine with a high rate of accuracy a disease's CFR?

<comment><USER54> It was a simple question. And you didn't answer the rest of my post. Are you asserting that China would've had the same outcome if they had done nothing?

<comment><USER4> We already know how bad it can get. It's be tested and proven under lab-like conditions.

If you want to panic and spread irrational noise, go ahead. There's no point arguing with people that don't want to discuss the science side of things.

<comment><USER54> > If you want to panic

Can you please explain where I said that? I'm pretty sure I said "We shouldn't panic" ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22559590](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22559590)).

I'll say it again. We _shouldn 't_ panic. It is counterproductive. But so is passiveness, inaction, and complacency (such as saying "it's not a big deal" as you did). Facing up to a problem, and dealing with it calmly and resolutely isn't panicking.

> There's no point arguing with people that don't want to discuss the science > side of things

I'm not certain what "science" you're talking about here. What "lab-like" conditions? Are you saying containment efforts are unnecessary or unhelpful? I seriously have no idea.

<comment><USER4> Argue with doctors, data and non-panic induced social media. Bring ur lazy sideways anti-science arguing elsewhere.

One example of many, go argue with them.

[https://imgur.com/gallery/mAOTOI8](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAOTOI8)

<comment><USER54> Seriously, what have I said that was "anti-science"? I'm in full, 100% agreement with the link you posted. "Don't overcrowd hospitals, watch for the symptoms, self-isolate, call doctors before going in, flatten the curve etc." Those are the exact measures that need to be taken.

What I was disputing was your original statement "COVID-19 isn't a big deal." If large portions of the population have to take all these measures to keep this thing under control, it seems like a pretty big deal to me.

At this point I feel like you're just trolling. You aren't responding to anything I've said at all.

<comment><USER4> Tell this data it's wrong:

[https://imgur.com/gallery/FETiDTV](https://imgur.com/gallery/FETiDTV)

Anti-hysteria from a _doctor_, argue with him:

[https://imgur.com/gallery/XN9pvQM](https://imgur.com/gallery/XN9pvQM)

(no point in actually discussing anything with you)

<comment><USER54> > (no point in actually discussing anything with you)

I feel the same way. Not one thing I've said contradicts anything you've posted. Definitely a troll. Or you took offense at the first thing I said and are determined to ignore literally everything else I wrote.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> I'm assuming he's talking about toilet soap, not liquid soap. Both are surfactants, but I suppose, still behave a bit differently.

>Consequently, many antibacterial products are basically just an expensive version of soap in terms of how they act on viruses.

In that case, this part would be wrong. You use up toilet soap a lot faster than liquid soap, especially if the dosages of the liquid are managed efficiently.

<comment><USER56> > I'm assuming he's talking about toilet soap, not liquid soap.

... what's toilet soap and how does it differ from liquid soap?

<comment><USER55> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap)

<comment><USER57> Edit: this is nonsense. See comment below.

That says Toilet Soap is any soap used domestically for cleaning. So liquid soap is toilet soap. What do you mean by it?

<comment><USER55> You didn't even read through the table of contents, nor the initial summary. Both soaps have their own, named subsection, while in the abstract you'll find a succinct explanation which will make sense once you've read that liquid soap is a detergent.

>Soap is created by mixing fats and oils with a base, as opposed to detergent which is created by combining chemical compounds in a mixer.

<comment><USER56> You're getting it wrong and you're confusing everybody. Detergent isn't non- toilet soap. Toilet soap can _also_ be liquid soap. It took me all day to figure this out and understand what you were talking about.

Under toilet soap:

> In a domestic setting, "soap" usually refers to what is technically called a > toilet soap, used for household and personal cleaning.

I'm not sure if that also includes detergent like dish detergent, but it's certainly not non-toilet soap.

Under non-toilet soap:

> Soaps are key components of most lubricating greases and thickeners. Greases > are usually emulsions of calcium soap or lithium soap and mineral oil.[5] > Many other metallic soaps are also useful, including those of aluminium, > sodium, and mixtures thereof. Such soaps are also used as thickeners to > increase the viscosity of oils. In ancient times, lubricating greases were > made by the addition of lime to olive oil.[6]

> METALLIC SOAPS ARE COMPOUNDS OF ALKALINE metals or heavy metals and > monobasic carboxylic acids containing from 7 to 22 carbon atoms. The water- > insoluble metallic soaps are of particular interest to the coatings > industry, although potassium and lithium soaps have limited water > solubility.

They can also be lubricants for machines and you don't want to use any of this for cleaning anything at home.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Theory and Techniques of  Compiler Construction (2005) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://www.ethoberon.ethz.ch/WirthPubl/CBEAll.pdf <comment><USER2> I'm collecting compiler resources on Github:

[https://github.com/melling/ComputerLanguages/blob/master/com...](https://github.com/melling/ComputerLanguages/blob/master/compilers.org)

If anyone has other good links, please post.

<comment><USER3> "SSA-based Compiler Design" [1] is awesome, heaps of interesting algorithms.

[1] [http://ssabook.gforge.inria.fr/latest/book.pdf](http://ssabook.gforge.inria.fr/latest/book.pdf)</comment></comment>


Help Us Tell Telly That They Have Exposed 8M Subscribers - <AUTHOR> https://www.riskbasedsecurity.com/2016/10/help-us-tell-telly-that-they-have-exposed-8m-subscribers/ <comment><USER2> The timeline isn't completely clear, but it appears to be less than 10 days since they were first notified. If so, this is irresponsibly early for a public disclosure. CERT's guideline is 45 days: [https://www.cert.org/vulnerability-analysis/vul- disclosure.c...](https://www.cert.org/vulnerability-analysis/vul- disclosure.cfm)

<comment><USER3> Disclosure of vulnerabilities over the last decade has been a challenge and there are lots of different views on how things should be handled no doubt. And it is clear that we are now running into the same issues with data breaches, in terms of vendors/organization being non-responsive, as in the past with vulnerability reporting.

However, to be clear the CERT guideline you pasted refers to vulnerabilities in software, and not open data on the Internet, ie: an active data breach.

If you look at the CERT FAQ as to why 45 days you see this:

\</comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment> Q: Why not 30 days, or 15 days, or immediately?

A: We think that 45 days can be a pretty tough deadline for a large organization to meet. Making it shorter won't realistically help the problem. In the absence of evidence of exploitation, gratuitously announcing vulnerabilities may not be in the best interest of public safety. \</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>--

That 45 day timeline is referencing an organization having the ability to fix the vulnerability, and getting the patches out to affected customers so they can implement.

The Telly situation is different. There is an open database exposing customer data (which is simple to correct btw) and they are non-responsive, ie: not even ack'ing the issue or asking for more time to correct the issue. The post does not provide the location of the data, nor details such as a typical vulnerability report would include on how to exploit the software.

Many people will have their own view points on a situation such as this, but the real focus should be on getting the database removed from the Internet as quick as possible, and Telly taking the proper action ASAP.</comment>


Ask HN: How do YOU make money from open source projects? - <AUTHOR>

I am not looking for tips, I am just genuinely interested in what methods people use- Flattr, Gittip etc. <comment><USER2> By running a service - a lot of software today isn't valuable because of the product, but because of the service it provides. Facebook, Twitter or Drobox software is not particularly difficult to clone - many companies built clones. What sets the popular sites apart from clones is the service they provide (community, reach, availability, easy access). I guess that's one of the failures of G+ - the software was there, but the service wasn't.

Our code is in the open[1], and anyone could install it and run it, but there is a convenient web site[2] out there that lets people get the service easily without bothering with an install. We make money from subscription fees for higher capacity.

[1] - [http://github.com/mindmup](http://github.com/mindmup)

[2] - [http://www.mindmup.com](http://www.mindmup.com)

<comment><AUTHOR> This is how I envisage what I would call "public facing" (websites etc) open source projects making money. Do you think this idea of trying to provide the best form of service translates to applications, through regular updates and support for users?

<comment><USER2> many opensource application developers make money from selling auxiliary services (eg premium support) or training workshops around their products. this is particularly a good idea if your target market are developers.</comment></comment></comment>


I Built a Website with Every ACNH Villager, Item, and Reaction - <AUTHOR> https://villagers.club <comment><AUTHOR> So here's short story, I was trying to get into opensource, so I found a repo for a popular AC website, and was like hey, I'll make some improvements and submit a pull request. All is well and good, chatting with the developers, got input and made adjustments... and then they never merged my pull request.

So I got salty, and me and my hubris said, "I could build this exact site in like 3 days"...

So 2 days later my girlfriend and I launched VillagersClub.

If you've ever wondered what every item costs, what materials it takes to craft, if it can be bought, what villagers there are, what a villagers house looks like, what items are in a villagers house, which items you can give to a villager to get them to wear it, which reactions you can learn from which villagers and literally a whole lot more, please check out our website.

Of course, we couldn't have done it entirely alone and the data itself is based off of the public and opensource ANCH Public Spreadsheet Project (linked to in footer of site) where tons of great people are putting their minds together to datamine all of ACNH.

Hope your day is well, take care.</comment>


Ask HN: Idea of building a Pay per Click system - <AUTHOR>

Out of curiousity, how does this pay-per-click works? Any idea on how they built that kind of system? <comment><USER2> Which pay per click system? Who is "they"?

<comment><AUTHOR> Google Adwords perhaps?</comment></comment>


The Location of 'Salvator Mundi' - <AUTHOR> https://news.artnet.com/opinion/kenny-schachter-on-the-missing-salvator-mundi-1565674 <comment><USER2> There was a good podcast ("Against the Rules") by Michael Lewis about this painting, and the incentives towards certifying it as a Leonardo:

[https://atrpodcast.com/episodes/the-hand-of- leonardo-s1!7616...](https://atrpodcast.com/episodes/the-hand-of- leonardo-s1!7616f)

edit: fixed link

<comment><USER3> Link doesn't work. What's the name of the podcast?

<comment><USER2> Fixed -- it's Against the Rules: The Hand of Leonardo

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> What Kool-Aid has convinced anyone that's a DaVinci I cannot guess.

<comment><USER3> Basically nobody seriously thinks it's an actual Da Vinci, but at this point it doesn't really matter. The narrative around the painting makes it a far more interesting work than any second rate actual Da Vinci could ever hope to be.

<comment><USER5> The surrounding narrative bit also worked wonders for another Da Vinci hit "The Mona Lisa". Had it not been stolen it would still be relatively obscure.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I find it fascinating that the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia which is home to the holiest sites in Islam, paid so much money for a distinctly Christian art peace ("Salvator Mundi" is Latin for "Savior of the World").

<comment><USER7> >I find it fascinating that the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia which is home to the holiest sites in Islam

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_h...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia)

"The destruction of sites associated with early Islam is an ongoing phenomenon that has occurred mainly in the Hejaz region of western Saudi Arabia, particularly around the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. The demolition has focused on mosques, burial sites, homes and historical locations associated with the Islamic prophet Muhammad and many of the founding personalities of early Islamic history."

[https://time.com/3584585/saudi-arabia-bulldozes-over-its- her...](https://time.com/3584585/saudi-arabia-bulldozes-over-its-heritage/)

"Over the last few years, mosques and key sites dating from the time of Muhammad have been knocked down or destroyed, as have Ottoman-era mansions, ancient wells and stone bridges. Over 98% of the Kingdom's historical and religious sites have been destroyed since 1985, estimates the Islamic Heritage Research Foundation in London."

>paid so much money for a distinctly Christian art peace ("Salvator Mundi" is Latin for "Savior of the World").

And even more funny is that the "Salvator Mundi" may very probably end up in the new royal palace being built on the site of the bulldozed Mohammed's birthplace.</comment></comment>


Lawsuits fly over Dish Network's ad-skipping DVR - <AUTHOR> http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/25/technology/dish-auto-hop-lawsuit/index.htm <comment><USER2> Love it. Let the fun begin.</comment>


Ask HN: Rails or Sinatra? - <AUTHOR>

Hey, experienced ruby devs. Which ruby framework is best, in terms of flexibility and scalability? I have a background in PHP. I know the basics of Ruby but, I am still learning. Thanks. <comment><USER2> Padrino is the best of both worlds

<comment><USER3> Padrino is pretty good, but really, the docs are lacking in my opinion. For someone new to coding ruby on the web, getting a good grounding with Rails and then using Padrino is, in my opinion, a better idea.</comment></comment>


BLUI: Blowable user interface - <AUTHOR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34SEmMxbNkQ

<comment><USER2> In soviet russia...

</comment><comment><USER3> Wow... good luck using this UI for more than 2 min. The only UI that makes you pass out :)

</comment><comment><USER4> Isn't there a sailing game for one of the portable gaming concoles, where you have to propel the boat by blowing?</comment>


United States Expatriation at an All-Time High - <AUTHOR> https://axibase.github.io/atsd-use-cases/Expatriation_Q2/ <comment><USER2> As an expat, the main reason I'd give up my citizenship is dealing with the extremely onerous IRS and FINCEN filing requirements. Last year I probably spent 20-40 hours on this crap, just to prove I owe nothing. My tax return has been to tax court even though it was 100% perfect, simply because IRS doesn't have the expertise to evaluate their own murky laws around foreign employment. Everything is okay as long as you are a permanent employee without a self- controlled pension. Step out of the bounds and you're in for a world of pain. It seems so unnecessary and stupid to me. You also get double taxed on some things, like house purchase/sales in the UK. Expats really get the shaft from the US gov.

Note it's not cheap to expatriate either. It's 2000 a family member plus possible exit tax. IRS can also pursue you for taxes afterwards if they think you did it to explicitly avoid taxes. There is no 100% escape.

<comment><USER3> The old Hotel California rule. US Citizens are the only people in the world (besides a very small african nation) that still have to file and pay income taxes back home when they are no longer living in the United States. So much for being free.

<comment><USER4> I hear North Korea has a similar policy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I know many American expats here in Berlin in the high-tech and academic worlds. Many say that the current political climate in the US greased the skids for their expatriation. No one says that the impetus was only the political situation, or that they will never return, but rather that it's a major factor in reducing the resistance to expatriation. For many, even those who aren't particularly partisan, the US political situation has become a source of constant low-level anxiety at best, and that generates a kind of exhaustion that makes it easy to throw up your hands and think "to hell with all this."

<comment><USER6> I don't see how that's rational after what happened in Hamburg last month.

<comment><USER7> There were 15 school shootings in the US last year, according to Wikipedia. Shure, Germany has revolutionary communists, anarchists and néonazis, but the US is a wild place too.

I'm sure this image has been distorted by Hollywood et al., but I have the impression that the US is a particularly violent place, at least when compared to Western countries of similar development.

<comment><USER8> The US is not a particularly violent place for the majority of people in it. There are certainly parts of it that are, but chances are someone reading hacker news would never end up in those parts.

I've lived in Atlanta, Chicago, Boston, Miami, Los Angeles, even Flint, Michigan and have even been to some of the less nice parts of those areas. I've never been mugged or beat up or even threatened really. I've had my car broken into once or twice in 50 years, but I was not in or near it at the time. The image Hollywood projects is extremely distorted. I've even known lots of people who owned or really loved guns, and none of them has ever done anything violent with them as far as I know.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Interesting, but it's been a growing trend. US is one of the few countries that taxes its citizens who move abroad. This leads many to give up their US passport/citizenship. You may also know that US citizens who open bank accounts here in UK have to declare, specifically that they are US citizens. It's basically a checkbox you clear (or not). That is then flagged back to some 'entity' in the US presumably...

One thing I did notice that was interesting. If you click the 'raw data' from the Federal Register and scroll down the list of those who have given up citizenship there is one 'Steven Ballmer' listed..I had to chuckle at that one...

<comment><USER10> >US is one of the few countries that taxes its citizens who move abroad.

More precisely it is taxation by citizenship, not residence.

For example, the Netherlands will happily tax everyone on their _assets_ worldwide, but you're not going to be paying Dutch income taxes if you're not living and working in the Netherlands.

<comment><USER11> > More precisely it is taxation by citizenship, not residence.

Both. Non-citizens (inc. illegal immigrants) are required to pay US taxes just for residing in the United States. The US will actually give non-citizens a unique tax ID (TIN) for this express purpose.

So the US will tax both based on residential status AND citizenship status.

<comment><USER7> To paraphrase: "Illegal immigrants to the US are required to pay US taxes"

That's... Slightly insane?

<comment><USER12> You are also required to pay taxes on profits from illegal activity. Breaking one law doesn't exempt you from following another.

<comment><USER7> Well, if an illegal immigrant files taxes, then they're registered in the system and will be thrown out, right? If you're illegally in a country you presumably have to stay hidden in order to not be thrown out, and if you pay taxes you're not hidden anymore.

<comment><USER13> No. The There are laws against the IRS reporting illegal income to other agencies. If you pay your taxes, the IRS has no problem with you, and any violation you have with another agency is not their problem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The absolute numbers are still pretty small, though. In 2000 273 people renounced their passports. This year, 6800 people have so far. A big increase, but still a drop in the bucket compared to the 700k that were naturalized.

<comment><USER15> That only captures the flow toward countries that refuse double nationality. 9 out of 10 of the most common names for those are Asian (Chinese mainly, at least one Vietnamese and at least two Korean)

Most people will keep their passports even when residing long term abroad.

<comment> torrent-of-ions Many don't keep their US passport even if they can to avoid paying tax.

<comment><USER16> US worldwide taxation is incredibly obnoxious, but the benefits of keeping a US passport still outweigh the drawbacks for many. That's not guaranteed to last forever, though.

<comment><USER17> If I'm correct you only have to do a federal tax return (not state) and you have a tax credit equal to what you paid in your residence country.

So yes, I understand filling a tax return is a chore, but you'll only pay taxes if the amount you paid in your residence country is lower that what you would have paid in federal taxes alone.

Considering how low US income tax is, in most countries you won't have to pay anything.

<comment><USER18> > _how low US income tax is_

Compared to what? The maximum federal rate is nearly 40%. Yes, there are many many countries with maximum rates in the 50-60% range. But 40%, even marginal, is not low.

<comment><USER19> It's _extremely high_.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates)

Sort by max individual rate, it's 8th from the top in a list 221 countries long.

<comment><USER18> Only if you include state rates, which is.. disingenuous at best. It's at least as wrong as saying the US has very low tax rates. If you're talking about expatriation, the IRS, etc, you're only talking about Federal rates. Short of _outlawing_ income tax the Federal government has very little power over dictating state tax rates.

At the Federal level personal taxation is not terrible but it's not low, either. The US has the second higher corporate income tax in the world according to that same chart, and the highest depending on your state of incorporation/operation (if you include state/local).

<comment><USER19> I disagree. The context of the original quote was;

> Considering how low US income tax is

Now I do understand what you mean when you make the distinction that for expatriate taxation based on citizenship, only the federal taxes are considered, but that is not what the original language actually said in the context of the statement regarding how low US income tax is, and weasel language to push a political agenda is annoying at the best of times.

To be scrupulously fair and expose my biases though, frankly even federal taxes alone are high as far as I'm concerned. Any amount is high when you're forced by threats of violence to pay it. The appropriate amount gathered by that method ought to be zero percent.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Makes perfect sense. The US is the most wealthy-unfriendly tax regime in the world. I have friends who have never lived or worked in the US amd yet are asked to pay high US taxes. They hate it and will leave. The people who get naturalized are all people with no meaningful assets. Plus many global banks will not open us citizens accounts.

In other words being a US citizen is no upside and all downside.

<comment><USER21> > The US is the most wealthy-unfriendly tax regime in the world.

I'd like to hear more about this. I'm a Canadian, and our conservative politicians are always saying that WE are the most wealthy-unfriendly tax regime in the world, and that it is stifling investment.

And I keep reading about how in Scandanavian countries, the rich have to give nearly all of their income back to the state, but they are impossibly nice people, so they don't mind. Are Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark friendlier to the wealthy AND providing Universal Health Care to their citizens?

<comment><USER22> Hi. I'm a Russian citizen living in Sweden. I have a work visa.

The income tax is progressive and hits the ceiling of 60% pretty fast. I don't remember exactly but I think it does if your salary is more than 60000 Swedish kronas (around 6000 euros). Universal Health Care is available to everyone who has Swedish ID (I do) and includes higher cost protection for dental services.

Without diving in I can tell Sweden is definitely not friendly to the wealthy but it's very friendly to a lot of people with everyday common jobs with lower and middle level salaries.

<comment><USER23> Au contraire. The high taxes in Sweden are on income (and consumption). Capital gains tax is maximum 30%, the property "tax" is low, and there's no "asset tax."

<comment><USER22> I see. I've interpreted "the wealthy" meaning too narrow and haven't taken in account everything you've mentioned.

Thanks for the info.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> How does one differentiate "expatriate" and "emigrant"? Why is the term "expatriate" only reserved for those who originate from Western countries?

<comment><USER25> expatriate: a person who lives outside their native country.

emigrant: a person who leaves their own country in order to settle permanently in another.

<comment><USER26> So the article is talking about both? Because if you're giving up your citizenship you're certainly not planning on going back.

<comment><USER25> The article mentions 'expat' 24 times, and does not mention 'emigrant' once. The GP's question is a bit of a tangent from the article at hand.

Also, one does not necessarily give up their citizenship to become an expat somewhere else.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> It says the NUMBER of people doing so is at an all time high. How many per capita? The absolute number is kind of silly to use as the population grows over time...

</comment><comment><USER28> Well written and well presented.

This exactly the kind of solid out-reach that gets me to click through and take a look at the axibase product.

</comment><comment><USER29> >Abraham Lincoln's second term was viewed as the tightening of federal authority to excessive levels that ultimately led to the American Civil War

By Lincoln's second term, the American Civil War was already underway.

</comment><comment><USER30> Based on the names, could it just be that the baby boomers are retiring and going home? They are a very large demographic and I imagine their options for reasonable priced healthcare insurance are shrinking.

</comment><comment><USER31> I find myself in the odd position of hoping for republican tax reform to happen, if only for the repeal of FATCA (S. 869)

</comment><comment><USER32> Its funny to see if a first world country citizen moves to another country he is called an Expat and the third world citizens are called immigrants.

A common misconception. If you have given up your US citizenship, you are an immigrant. Not an expat.

<comment><USER33> People have a reason to make that distinction. You are not bound to see humanitarian aid for expats anytime soon.

Also, i dont think it's a term reserved for westerners. What do you call a rich saudi who currently lives in miami, an immigrant?

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> So they replace constant low-level anxiety of politics with low-level anxiety of getting hit by a truck?

<comment><USER35> The traffic fatality rate per capita in Germany about 40% of what it is in the US.

I assume you were referring to terrorist attacks, but a stupid, inattentive, or drunk driver will kill you just as dead.

<comment><USER36> Case in point: the number of cyclists killed in Berlin traffic 2016 was higher than the number of people killed by terrorist attacks. Providing safe traffic infrastructure may have a better ROI than all the anti-terror measures. It's just that we have accepted traffic deaths as inevitable and they happen one by one and terror attacks are one big event that people think is somehow magically preventable. (In truth, the 2016 attack would have been preventable had autorities arrested the attack instead of stopping the existing surveillance, but most traffic death would be preventable as well)

<comment><USER37> Traffic deaths are not entirely accepted. There is a constant trajectory of better infrastructure and more safety systems in vehicles.

Of course we are still accepting traffic deaths at some level, but there is a lot of effort and resources devoted to reducing them over time. It's just expensive and disruptive.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


JPlayer - A jQuery HTML5 Audio/Video Library - <AUTHOR> http://functionn.blogspot.com/2012/03/jplayer-jquery-html5-audiovideo-library.html#.T2dlMA-YBD4.hackernews <comment><USER2> Interesting coincidence. Just found this library at around lunchtime today after having meddled with VideoJS and OSM Player. While VideoJS seems to have the fastest setup time, its the least flexibile and i couldnt even get OSM working. I found jPlayer to be the more robust and flexible. Seems like they've thought of pretty much everything. Its like the jQuery of media playback. Im expecting to use this a lot more in the long term.

</comment><comment><USER3> I've used this on a number of projects and it's served well. Being able to customize the player interface using HTML/CSS is awesome after coming from Flash players with limited or difficult customizations.

One concern is that it hasn't been updated for going on 2 years, but if it's just wrapping the HTML5 <video> tag then perhaps it just doesn't need to be updated as it does it's job well...

</comment><comment><USER4> How does this compare to SoundManager2 ( <http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/> )? SM2 seems more actively developed, and looks to play nice in JQuery pages as well. Any reason to prefer one over the other?

</comment><comment><USER5> Seems kind of spammy to link to this blog entry, which doesn't appear to actually provide any information, rather than <http://www.jplayer.org/>.

<comment><AUTHOR> sorry for that, it is just my blog. Shameless self-promotion :-(</comment></comment>


Show HN: SocialSign.me - About.Me for Your Email Signature  - <AUTHOR> http://socialsignme.appspot.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> My cofounders and I at The Shared Web hacked this together one of the days this weekend. It lets you indicate all your social services, and then we create a pretty signature you can put in your email. Definitely a MVP, but it works - so we put it up. Thought it would be a useful service for people. Would love to know what you think!

You'll notice one of the social services is The Shared Web. We're going to be launching The Shared Web publicly soon, so feel free to sign up at www.thesharedweb.com for our beta invite list!

<comment><USER2> I'm firmly in the "email should be plain text" camp but this is nicely done.

<comment><USER3> On the brighter side, this will also appeal to those who already have atrocious e-mail signatures and improve your encounter with them.

Sometimes you have to play their own game.

<comment><USER4> You're right. We were inspired to do this after using rapportive and finding it very useful to have the picture of the person who is emailing you show up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Why can't I add my own website to my signature?

<comment><USER3> It'll be there eventually. I think they're waiting to implement it, until they include a general placeholder that fetches the favicon.

<comment><USER6> +1 totally agree. think this is the biggest oversight of an otherwise cool service.

needs to include your personal website/blog & company site/blog as options

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Typo "textare" in footer.

You mention creating a signature "like this one" but then the actual signature creates an ad for the service as an extra - obviously you want word to spread, but there might be a more subtle way to do that, and also disclose it in the example - a ? icon maybe?

I know it's an MVP, but you could have a few theme/style options pretty easily - different layouts, icon sets, colour schemes, etc.

Good luck.

<comment><USER4> Thanks for the feedback. We'll definitely disclose in it in the example and think of a more subtle way to help other people find out about it. We actually added it in at the end - that's why it is not in the picture example - and we thought it would be okay because you can delete the link once you paste the signature in Gmail. If people like this, we'll definitely consider spending some more time adding a few themes/styles, or open it up so others can create themes for it.

<comment><USER7> Maybe have a checkbox (checked by default) and "Help spread the word about this free service." They can uncheck that to skip the little ad.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> It's a bit of an indie site, but <http://endor.se> could also be interesting as an optional addition.

flavors.me and a general website link would also be great.

<comment><USER4> endor.se looks very interesting. We may consider the ability to enter any site you want and we'll try to grab the fav icon for it, so we can show it nicely in the signature.

<comment><USER3> Sounds like the best way to approach it.

Only the basic services are necessary, as they give people an idea of what the service can be used for.

A laundry list of service icons in your signature also gives a slightly ... weird impression. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Please add a stackoverfow icon? As a developer, SO is basically my resume.

<comment><USER4> Will do. Thanks for the suggestion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> if facebook picture isn't public, shows broken image. Also would like to add my own links. Maybe provide a few additional fields with a generic web icon.

<comment><AUTHOR> Definitely. Will add option of which image to use (twitter, fb, linkedin or quora profile pic), or perhaps even let users upload a service.

Will also add the ability to create field with a generic web icon.

<comment><USER10> You should just use Gravatar.

<comment><AUTHOR> Gravatar looks interesting - will check it out, and see if we can incorporate it. Thanks for the headsup.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The Copy to Clipboard button doesn't appear to be working for me in Firefox 4.

<comment><USER4> Will take a look at that right now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> The profile image brought in from Twitter was broken when I tried it out.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, did you use an FB account as well? It tries to use your FB pic first if an FB username is specified, and then goes for the Twitter pic if no FB username is specified

<comment><USER12> I didn't add my FB Account at all, so it had nothing to pull from there.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hmm.. give it a go again and let me know if it's still buggy - I think it should be fixed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Can you add about.me?

<comment><AUTHOR> That's meta. Yes. I think will just do something where you can select from a bunch of different services to add. Will take a quick stab at it today :).

Perhaps add hackernews as well as an option?

<comment><USER3> >Perhaps add hackernews as well as an option?

I'm sure a lot of people would love that.

GitHub is also a must.

<comment><USER4> Great suggestions. We'll take a look at those.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> would be great to allow you to link to a blog</comment>


Ask HN: Database with Pull Requests? - <AUTHOR> Howdy HN,
I'm working on a volunteer project that will be creating a public database of election and ballot information. I'd like for people to be able to submit proposed updates to the data for review, similar to how you can submit a pull request for code changes on github.
Is there a platform/tool/database that lets people collaboratively manage a dataset like this?
The nearest examples I can think of are:
1. Github/Gitlab/etc. - Code-management platforms that keep track of version history and have the ability to have branches, issues, and merge requests.
2. Open Street Maps/Open Railway Maps/etc. - Wiki platforms that have version history and have tools for collaborative management of the map dataset.
However, I can't seem to find such a platform for collaborative database management. I guess I could try to hack in that kind of management by basically making the dataset a series of flat files on github and let people use that to file pull requests, but then things like foreign keys wouldn't automatically update. <comment><USER2> Not exactly like pull requests, but I'm working on a versioned open source database system:

[https://sirix.io](https://sirix.io)

Basically each commit results in a new (efficient) snapshot which shares database pages, which have not been touched by modifications. Furthermore record pages are not simply copied when only a single record has been inserted/updated/deleted.

Basically you could always revert to a former revision and commit a new version.

Kind regards Johannes

</comment><comment><USER3> Can you host a sqlite file on GitHub instead of using flat files?

</comment><comment><USER4> A wiki + document search?</comment>


Outsourcing in India - <AUTHOR>

Hi everyone, I have been building a software product for the past 2 years. I'm now leaving my 3rd Indian software development company and looking to hire my 4th. To say that I have had bad luck is an understatement. Has anyone had a really great experience with a company in India? Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks <comment><USER2> Where are you located? We develop from Argentina, and we focus on quality. www.prosart.com

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm in California. I've never considered Argentina, they don't get to much attention as being a tech country.</comment></comment>


The Secret Seat of the Knights Templar - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20190724-the-knights-templars-mightiest-stronghold <comment><USER2> The Knights Templar have a greater mystique since they were suppressed, and revived only by fiction writers from Umberto Eco to Dan Brown; but to me the Knights Hospitaller are in some ways more impressive for managing to hang on to their state-without-a-country status for so long as the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. They even had a substantial air force at one point as part of a scheme to circumvent treaty restrictions on Italy.

<comment><USER3> Yes!

I highly recommend Roger Crowley's _Empire of the Sea_ to anyone who wants to read about Malta in the 1500s when it was a key in the battle for the Mediterranean between the Ottomans and various European forces in various alliances (or not)

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3418555-empires-of- the-s...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3418555-empires-of-the-sea)

<comment><USER4> Does roger have any relation to aleister crowley?

<comment><USER5> Now I'm confused who Ozzy is singing about in the song titled "Mr Crowley" :(

<comment><USER6> Come on guys, it's not an uncommon name by any stretch of the imagination. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowley_(surname)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowley_\(surname\))

<comment><USER4> May not be an "uncommon surname" \-- but there is ONE prominent very significant in history crowley!

Who the fuck do you think we are thinking about in this context. Frank Crowley the farmer?

<comment><USER7> No, he probably meant the one from Good Omens

/s

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Very strong _Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars_ [0] nostalgia reading this.

0: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Sword:_The_Shadow_of_th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Sword:_The_Shadow_of_the_Templars)

<comment><USER9> You can buy the game on mobile/tablet these days.

Highly recommended!

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> And if you want to read more about how the curse unfolded, have a lot of time to spare and can either read French or get your hands on a suitable translation, Maurice Druon's "Les Rois Maudits" is the epic multi-volume tale of a medieval dynasty's decline that you'll want to read.

<comment><USER11> Which is one of the influence of G.R.R Martin for A Song of Ice and Fire (GoT). Not for the dragon part, but rather the constant feuds and betrayals between noble families.

What is interesting is that even if is fiction, most of the main characters have existed and are more or less historically accurate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> "Paris in the fall, the last months of the year, at the end of the millenium. The city holds many memories for me, of music, of cafes, of love, and of death."</comment>


Ask HN: What are the recommended books on Social Influence? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I assume if you're asking, you've likely already read "How to Win Friends and Influence People". If not, do so.

One of the themes in it is how listening is a skill and applying it is one of the most powerful ways to influence people because it conveys to people, "I have an understanding of your concerns. When I advocate a course of action, I've done the work to take these concerns into account and evaluate trade-offs with them. You can trust me on this."

Books which also discuss the skill of listening include:

* Difficult Conversations, by the Harvard Negotiation Project

* Thanks for the Feedback, by the Harvard Negotiation Project

* and a bit of Decisive, by Chip & Dan Heath

Though the other things it says about decision-making processes are likely more useful, since persuasion involves influencing decision-making

Lastly, because both listening and persuasion both kinda depend on forming a good Theory of Mind, I'll recommend Thinking Fast and Slow. It is a bit farther-removed from your question, but also very generally useful.

</comment><comment><USER3> "Influence" and "Pre-suasion" by Robert Cialdini

<comment><USER4> +1 for this. I came across it while reading Farnam Street blog. The book really helped me level up at work</comment></comment>


Interview with Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google: "You don't learn very much when you yourself are talking" - <AUTHOR> http://iinnovate.blogspot.com/2007/03/eric-schmidt-ceo-of-google.html <comment><AUTHOR> By Guy Kavasaki: The guys at iInnovate posted a lovely interview with Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google. Among the topics they covered were:

Anti-trust _

Innovation_

Competitive advantages _

Motivation of entrepreneurs_

Maintaining the entrepreneurial spirit _

Traditional and non-traditional organization design_

What Microsoft and Yahoo does that impresses him _

Invention of disruptive technologies

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Sorry, I just realized this is a dupe. Dan posted the same link a few hours ago:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=5471>

<comment><USER2> I'd class this as a problem. Delicious solves this by having the link on submission checking for uniqueness. If the link has been submitted previously you can't re-submit. The submission process should also be checking for link aliases (/index.html, index.htm, index.php).

Should be added to the todo list.

<comment><AUTHOR> news.yc already takes care of that. I was able to get by it because I posted a direct link, while Dan's link went through Guy Kavasaki's blog.

<comment><USER2> Damn, missed that. How do you check, rectify for that? aside from honesty? It's a matter of the more authoritative source, so how do you check one link is more authoritative than another algorithmically?

<comment><AUTHOR> If I were to tag this link, it would've been "Guy, Kavasaki, Eric, Schmidt, Google, CEO, Interview". There is a good chance Dan would have done the same. So tagging helps a lot.

Moreover, tagging leaves open the option to build recommender systems through collaborative filtering. I believe one of the reasons Reddit's recommendation tab was broken for so long (and still is) was because it was difficult to relate content without the use of tags.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


TDD with Django – Pycon 2015 3-hour tutorial by Harry Percival - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQjmz9wCjLA

<comment><AUTHOR> The script is available on his website - [http://www.obeythetestinggoat.com/static/tdd- workshop.zip](http://www.obeythetestinggoat.com/static/tdd-workshop.zip)

The great book on the same topic can be read online as well - [http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000000754/index.ht...](http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000000754/index.html)</comment>


Lossy text compression - <AUTHOR> https://hackaday.io/project/5689-lossy-text-compression <comment><USER2> I like this. Would love to see the whole bible done, and online. (I'm not religious btw, just curious).

<comment><AUTHOR> [http://www.lord-enki.net/king_james_ltc.txt](http://www.lord- enki.net/king_james_ltc.txt)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Since reading doesn't actually involve a letter-by-letter examination of the material, I wonder how a lossy compression algorithm that used words with the right shape would do compared to lossless compression?

</comment><comment><USER4> Interesting project - it could be taken further and apply some form of txt speak dictionary (E.g. Great->gr8 etc)</comment>


Ask HN: What is the best method for handling a large number of domains? - <AUTHOR>

Working in an agency type environment where grabbing domains for clients tends to happen quite frequently. We've been holding our domains with one registrar for the sake of simplicity and I'm starting see this more as a single point of failure rather then something convenient. I'm curious if there is a consensus regarding holding a large number of domains - is it better to split them up amongst many accounts? or is having the single account fine as long as security is maintained properly?
Thanks <comment><USER2> Having all domains with a single _trusted_ provider is the best way to do this. In my opinion that leaves only two parties, Gandi and Moniker.

Moniker has been bought and sold a couple of times now so I'm not too confident about their status, but when Monte was still running it they were top notch. I hear nothing but good about Gandi.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks!</comment></comment>


Making maps with noise functions - <AUTHOR> http://www.redblobgames.com/maps/terrain-from-noise/

<comment><USER2> One thing this misses is how to make plateaus: it uses a power law to make plains at zero altitude, but those end up getting flooded. Whereas real geography has plains at sea-level, flat seabeds, high-altitude steppes/prairies, etc.

<comment><USER3> There was a nice recent paper in JCGT that dealt with using noise to model terrain. It does a nice job of creating gently rolling hills.

Modeling Real-World Terrain with Exponentially Distributed Noise ([http://jcgt.org/published/0004/02/01/](http://jcgt.org/published/0004/02/01/))

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Red Blob Games (run by Amit P) is an invaluable resource for anyone wanting to learn about making game maps, pathfinding, noise functions, and other related concepts. I especially recommend his article on polygonal map generation. I used his work on grids as a starting point for a hexagon-grid map generator written in Haskell which my friend and I worked on this summer.

</comment><comment><USER5> Wow, that was really well done. I could follow along with the concepts and code and near normal reading speed. I look forward to playing with those ideas.

<comment><USER6> Amit is very good. His site is an invaluable resource, I hope Stanford never takes down his pages.</comment></comment>


Pono Music player with ultra-high resolution recordings (FLAC) - <AUTHOR> http://www.ponomusic.com

<comment><USER2> For those interested in the hardware, apparently it contains an ESS Sabre 9018 DAC together with a minimum phase apodizing digital filter from colorado based Ayre Acoustics, besides the other mentioned design decisions.

I don't know about the bits that matter around the DAC, but it's certainly more audiophile brew than your garden variety Cirrus, Wolfson or TI DAC'd phone or tablet arrangement.

None of which will matter that much if the masters are sub par.</comment>


Bittorrent declares war on VoIP, gamers - <AUTHOR> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/01/richard_bennett_utorrent_udp/

<comment><USER2> The author here comes across as too biased and passionate to be taken seriously. I understand that he wants to hype up his story to draw in readers but his "The sky is falling" attitude obscures any of the real issues and considerations involved.

Bittorrent, legal issues aside, is being throttled by many ISPs. It is only natural for bittorrent to fight back. There will be casualties, but I can't see ISPs throttling all UDP traffic, breaking VoIP. The internet won't break in some "Congestion Collapse".

I also disagree that P2P applications would be indistinguishable from VoIP without deep packet inspection as the author suggested. The network usage statistics for VoIP and P2P must look quite different and should be easily distinguished.

<comment><USER3> Seriously. Its a 5 liner in a tc script on any linux box to make udp streams behave nice and share the bandwidth without driving up each others latency.

I think ISP's can figure it out. The fact that many isp's are also telcos presents a far greater threat to voip than bittorrent, tcp, upd or otherwise.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Gaming and VoIP both tend to be very low bandwidth. Seems like it'd be very easy to throttle all UDP traffic down without hurting either of them. Latency is way more important for them than bandwidth.

</comment><comment><USER5> Followup: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=382152>

</comment><comment><USER6> Why the sky is in fact NOT falling: <http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?pid=379206#p379206>

</comment><comment><USER7> Flagged as FUD.

Seriously, read the other links... the whole thing is just flamebait.

</comment><comment><USER8> Isn't UDP, by definition, unstable packets that could be dropped at anytime?

<comment><USER9> Any packet can be dropped at any time, for TCP or UDP. So the protocol stack or application needs to deal with it and re-send, using a backoff policy.

Its worth looking at IM2000 and the pertinent questions that D. J. Bernstein asks about a future mail infrastructure.

<http://cr.yp.to/im2000.html></comment></comment>


Show HN: Splitit – A way to easily split receipts - <AUTHOR> Hi guys, I made Splitit (https://splitit.io) which an app I used to help me pay for lunch at work and fairly split the receipts.
I track where we went, who bought what, how much they used of each item, and how much they owe me.
It's not super complete, there are some glaring things missing, but I'd appreciate feedback on the idea and it's existing implementation.
Written using ReactJS talking to Django. The website and client side are hosted on Netlify (super amazing) and the API is hosted on Heroku.
Feel free to register and try it out! <comment><USER2> I see following message

"Sorry, for right now is disabled, but will be fixed very soon!"

<comment><AUTHOR> Just fixed it and you should be able to sign up for updates. If you want to just register for the app go to [https://app.splitit.io](https://app.splitit.io) and click the register button.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Prety good concept ngl</comment>


Blog Post: The Dark Side of Rust Language - <AUTHOR> http://diego-pacheco.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-dark-side-of-rust-language.html <comment><USER2> > Rust has issues with String. Rust has 6 String types. String, Str, CString, > Cstr, OsString, Ostr

Absolutely spot on! You add Path, PathBuf & ffi into this mix, it becomes tiring very soon. I think a quality of life improvement is needed in this area.

<comment><USER3> Its not a Rust problem, any project that mixes using string with passing them to C FFI and operating system API will need to handle those somehow differently. In Rust this is expressed with types and necessary checks/conversions are verified by compiler. In other languages its developer responsibility to deal with the problem of (sometimes subtle) differences, there is nothing here to fix really.

<comment><USER2> > there is nothing here to fix really

I get the rationale behind the need for different types. When I say quality of life improvement, I meant standard conversion functions between these types which would suffice for most of the use cases. Maybe a separate crate for this would be a good start.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Google search results - <AUTHOR>

I was searching for Starbucks menu and was surprised to see the result directly within the Google search results. Nowadays, you can get most of your answers for your searches without having to leave Google.com.<p>I am assuming this type of service will increase in future and Google seems to like to keep the users within Google.com. Isn't this bad for the website owners and content creators? <comment><USER2> Yes it is, and it is a legal gray area.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_aspects_of_hyperlinki...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_aspects_of_hyperlinking_and_framing)

[http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/website- permissions/lin...](http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/website- permissions/linking/)

 _" One court found framing to be a copyright infringement because the process resulted in an unauthorized modification of the linked site. (Futuredontics Inc. v. Applied Anagramic Inc., 45 U.S.P.Q. 2d 2005 (C.D. Cal. 1998).) In another case, The Washington Post, CNN, and several other news companies sued a website, TotalNews, which framed their news content. Under the terms of a settlement agreement, TotalNews agreed to stop framing and agreed to use text- only links.

While case law hasn't developed definitive rules on the issue, a framer is more likely to be found liable for copyright (or trademark) infringement if copyrighted material is modified without authorization or if customers are confused about the association between the two sites or the source of a product or service."_

\- See more at: [http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/website- permissions/lin...](http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/website- permissions/linking/#linking_and_framing)

</comment><comment><USER3> That data in particular may be "rich snippets" or "structured data" \- I have no idea if it is though

[https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/99170?hl=en](https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/99170?hl=en)

<comment><USER4> correct - the majority of the time this data (known as Knowledge Graph or Knowledge Vault) is pulled from the schema on the website (via structured data) but Google also uses a number of other sources, mainly Freebase and Wikipedia but also privately owned websites as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> My Co worker and I have been talking about this for a while. If someone is getting the information they need (and it comes from out site), but they never leave Google, how do we measure the impact of that?

</comment><comment><USER6> google have permission</comment>