A New Problem Is Brewing in the Beer Industry: One Million Kegs Are Going Stale - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-new-problem-is-brewing-in-the-beer-industry-one-million-kegs-are-going-stale-11587733224 <comment><USER2> My son in college (well in his apt with his gf, taking classes online) could easily take care of one before it expired. Hell, we could too.

In Germany we had the "beer man" who would drop off beer weekly and collect the empties. This should be adopted in the USA.

<comment><USER3> Germany is mostly pils, heff, and radler. The USA has more beer variety, maybe it's more difficult logistically? Companies in the USA do have a beer man, never heard of individual houses hiring one.

<comment><USER4> _The USA has more beer variety, maybe it 's more difficult logistically?_

No, it's just that for as much that has changed in America since its founding, being a bunch of Puritanical tight asses is still kind of encoded into our societal DNA.

<comment><USER5> The Puritans had beer upon arrival, so don't lay this on them.

<comment><USER6> Yes, beer would be acceptable in moderation by the Puritans and their Protestant descendants. Early Americans advocated temperance rather than complete abstinence. Much of this was a result of seeking a better/perfect society after the American Revolution. Evangelical Protestants spread religion and reform through the USA in what is known as the "Second Great Awakening" from 1790 to 1840. During this time, the temperance movement gained support. This led to a gain in popularity of complete abstinence from alcohol and the formation of various groups advocating for teetotalism. Through the late 1800's and early 1900's prohibitionist movements gained traction including the Anti-Saloon League which was driven by evangelical Protestantism. It was this organization that ultimately led to the Eighteenth Amendment of the United States constitution being ratified and prohibiting sale and manufacture of alcohol.

It has been a battle ever since. The area I live in only recently allowed the sale of liquor in restaurants and bars and still does not sell liquor by the bottle. There were many movements that had influence so perhaps it isn't fair to lay the blame solely on the Puritans, but they did have great influence in regards to alcohol in the USA and the parent isn't wrong, but has certainly omitted details.

<comment><USER5> Puritans, mostly because of the modern misunderstanding of the term, are blamed for all enforcement of any vice in the United States. I'm saying that the larger society, made up of different religious beliefs, has its own course and its social institutions are not constantly controlled by the "Puritans".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> _They are also sending beer that is expired or can't be distributed to a nearby craft distiller to be turned into hand sanitizer._

That's an excellent solution, as the demand for the latter has definitely been going up rapidly in the past little while.

<comment><USER8> There have been issues in that many ethanol producers are not licensed to produce medical-grade ethanol, which is what's required for hand sanitizer. So it hasn't been entirely straightforward to convert biofuel or drinking alcohol production over.

<comment><USER9> I can see why sanitizer used in a hospital would have to be "medical-grade", whatever that means. Why would any other sanitizer need this? If the fluid was safe to drink (most alcoholic beverages are sold for this purpose), why wouldn't it be safe to rub on hands?

<comment><USER10> I don't know about medical-grade but it's usually illegal for a brewery to produce alcohol strong enough to be useful as a sanitizer.

<comment><USER9> Thread parent referenced a distiller. Distillation is the process that turns fermented products into sanitizer and other wonderful fluids.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> simple solution: convert it to malt vinegar. this is a natural process caused by introducing a vinegar culture into the beer. then, sell it to the food industry or divert it to your food holdings (hot sauces or snacks.)

this can also be distilled into acetic acid which is used in everything from solvents to cervical cancer screens and the production of precursors for polyvinyl acetate.

<comment><USER12> I appreciate your second paragraph. That said I couldn't help think, "A New Problem Sours the Malt Vinegar Industry: One Million Kegs Are Sitting Idle"

<comment><USER13> Vinegar can actually get better with age.

<comment><USER14> "It's not idle, it's _appreciating_."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The beer supplier for my local pub actually came by to empty the kegs. They're taking it all back to get get converted into hand sanitizer. Which is a great solution.

As for the pub, they're offering takeout of their normal menu. As well as sell craft beer packages.

</comment><comment><USER16> We here in South Africa, we have actually banned the sale of alcohol and cigarettes while in lock-down for almost a month now.

<comment><USER17> That seems like a bad idea. Many people will die without any alcohol. Forcing people inside and then stopping the sales of cigarettes seems like it would create more agression in the short term.

<comment><USER18> Out of curiosity how exactly would people die without any alcohol?

<comment><USER19> People can be severely addicted to alcohol to the point of physical dependence.

[https://www.medscape.com/answers/819502-79121/what-is-the- mo...](https://www.medscape.com/answers/819502-79121/what-is-the-mortality- and-morbidity-of-alcohol-withdrawal-syndrome)

"The mortality rate from severe alcohol withdrawal and delirium tremens (DT) historically has been as high as 20% if untreated. Early recognition and improved treatment has reduced the mortality rate from DT to approximately 1-5%"

So this means people either die or go to emergency care with severe symptoms that require hospitalization, which obviously is to be avoided at a time like this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> The local breweries in the Seattle area have been collaborating with the restaurants doing delivery for weeks to offload their keg stock. We've been getting growlers basically at-cost. (WA relaxed liquor laws during the SAH order so regular food deliveries can also bring you alcohol.)

</comment><comment><USER21> Time for the US to get into the vegemite business

<comment><USER22> lol, can you elaborate?

<comment><USER23> It's based on brewers yeast extract.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Archival version [https://archive.fo/poekb](https://archive.fo/poekb)

</comment><comment><USER25> People in my office (well, formerly) have been buying kegs straight from the breweries. They were intended for commercial and now are sold to consumer and delivered by the same trucks.

<comment><USER26> Unless it's a local beer, they were buying straight from the local distributor. The major breweries do not ship their product to bars.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> "I volunteer!" I gasp. "I volunteer as tribute!"

(AL located currently)

<comment><USER28> Yeah, if any breweries or restaurants or what have you here in Reno are facing this issue, I'd be happy to help "store" some of it. Know quite a few buddies here in town who'd likely feel the same.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> "Executives say draft beer typically stays fresh for between two and six months."

Need to work on this.

<comment><USER30> Most craft beers, especially those high in terpenes (dry-hopped IPAs come to mind) have flavor drop-off relatively rapidly and are best consumed fresh. Monkish, Fieldwork, Other Half, Tree House etc are some of my favorites but they're usually bursting with flavor the first two weeks or so. "Drink Fresh"

<comment><USER31> I thought that the whole point of Indian Pale Ale was that it would last longer, as in it would survive a sea voyage from England to India in the 1800s (6 months)

<comment><USER32> It would go unspoiled, which is a bit different of a thing than tasting it's best.

Grain has quite a bit of lactic acid producing bacteria in it, on top of it's just being readily available in nature in general, so breweries naturally have a ton of it around. Most common lacto and pedio bacteria, the primary two type of LAB, is not very tolerant to hops. If you make a really hoppy beer, this naturally helps prevent the beer from souring.

Of course, a lot of beer is intentionally soured by these, and basically all beer originally would sour, and it's perfectly safe to drink. Just not desirable in every style of beer.

<comment><USER33> Maybe IPAs were meant to taste as they did after a long voyage to India. Maybe at the end of the voyage was when they tasted their best. Maybe the hops were just a preservative and nobody really liked drinking beer with overly strong hop flavours and aromas.

<comment><USER34> My theory is that people who like these extremely hoppy IPAs have (1) lost their ability to taste more subtle flavors, (2) are performing some kind of signalling to their fellow beer connisseur peers about how much of a beer geek they are.

<comment><USER35> They're just nice. People have different taste. I don't understand why you have to make theories. If I had to I'd theorise people who make theories about people who like hoppy IPAs (1) have sensitive taste buds, (2) are performing some kind of signaling.

<comment><USER9> So meta!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Free beer? Maybe structured to generate tax credit.

</comment><comment><USER37> Beer baths? Good for the skin.

</comment><comment><USER38> Why don't they give the for free to charities?

<comment><USER39> I will instantly register as a beer accepting charity if this happens :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Hey, I'll drink it?

<comment><USER41> My liver is indestructible!

<comment><USER42> Covid-19 is linked to AKF (search). As an older hacker (not a Boomer), I can tell you that the kids who setup microbreweries back in the day first tried to escape into project management and then wound up...not-in-tech.

<comment><USER43> Searching an acronym is like reversing a weak hash... they should be spelled out. When searching AKF I got mostly results about church organisations.

<comment><USER33> I think it's Acute Kidney Failure, but I can't completely decipher the rest of the comment.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Together we can solve this problem.

</comment><comment><USER45> I can't read the article due to the paywall, but I hope it went into the science around heat and oxidation as well as the regulations preventing breweries and distributors from buying back the kegs. Maybe it even offered a glimpse of hope from post-processing via distillation</comment>


A Simple Way to Reduce Suicides - <AUTHOR> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/a-simple-way-to-reduce-suicides/ <comment><USER2> _In September 1998, Britain changed the packaging for paracetamol, the active ingredient in Tylenol, to require blister packs for packages of 16 pills when sold over the counter in places like convenience stores, and for packages of 32 pills in pharmacies. The result: a study by Oxford University researchers showed that over the subsequent 11 or so years, suicide deaths from Tylenol overdoses declined by 43 percent, and a similar decline was found in accidental deaths from medication poisonings. In addition, there was a 61 percent reduction in liver transplants attributed to Tylenol toxicities._

Definitely worth reading, but maybe edit the headline to include the publication date of 2013.</comment>


HFT: lines, radios, and cables – oh my - <AUTHOR> https://meanderful.blogspot.com/2017/05/lines-radios-and-cables-oh-my.html <comment><USER2> My last contract in finance was in HFT, and we did indeed have these discussions about what our fastest routing would be at a sensible price!

I thought that a formation of sharks swimming in line across the Atlantic with optical repeaters on their heads (ie just skimming the surface) could be best for London to NYC minimum latency traffic. Finally a use for sharks with laser beams.</comment>


FB Executive Supported India's Modi, Disparaged Opp. In Internal Messages - johnx123-up https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-executive-supported-indias-modi-disparaged-opposition-in-internal-messages-11598809348 <comment><AUTHOR> The article didn't mention it, but it's relevant that after the news of this broke in India, the lady in question filed multiple police complaints alleging online harassment. These complaints were targeted at anonymous Twitter accounts that had tweeted abuse at her, but also at a journalist who maintains he has never interacted with her in any capacity online or offline and simply posted a set of questions he wished to pose to his Facebook. The Committee to Protect Journalists has come out in support of that person, who has filed a counter-complaint alleging criminal intimidation.

</comment><comment><USER2> Corruption of the political values in Indian politics, media and public in general is surprising. Religious fanatism is on the rise, earlier taboos like horse-trading of elected members is completely normal and is popularised as a master-stroke by the media.

</comment><comment><USER3> Facebook executive who shared anti-Muslim post apologises: Report Ankhi Das apologised to company staff for post that dubbed Muslims in India a 'degenerate community', BuzzFeed reports.

[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/facebook-executive- sh...](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/facebook-executive-shared-anti- muslim-post-apologises-report-200827063537453.html)

Facebook & Twitter is a disease.

</comment><comment><USER4> Net neutrality promised by FB has gone to the dogs.Money comes before ethics.

</comment><comment><USER5> What else can we expect when 50% Ministers in Modi Cabinet are Brahmin while they're just 3% in India [https://twitter.com/0x101/status/1298928597730594816](https://twitter.com/0x101/status/1298928597730594816)

</comment><comment><USER6> Remember this the next time HN commentators decide that Facebook should be the arbiter of truth and censor those who make "factually incorrect" statements.

Of course Facebook is politically biased.

<comment><USER7> There's a more reasonable middle ground where independent fact checkers take that on -- that at least has a chance to get monitary influence out of the picture

<comment><USER8> Independent fact checkers are never independent. There is a lot of money and power to be made in being arbiters of truth.

<comment><USER7> Nothing exists in a void, duh. My point is that one can strive for fact checkers who are independent _of Facebook_.

<comment><USER6> Independent fact checkers are no better than Facebook, in fact in some cases are worse. Politifact, Buzzfeed and Washington Post are all included in the program and none of those are neutral. Politifact regularly spins political "fact checks", and will nuke evidence of their false claims from the internet (including from Archive.org) when they've been caught out.

The number one problem with these fact checkers is that statements usually cannot be proven to the standard they advertise. When Trump speaks, it's usually saturated in hyperbole, exaggeration, imprecise language and metaphors. Politifact use this ambiguity to their advantage to achieve their political goals, usually by labeling a statement false because the figure was off by 2% or Politifact assumed context from a statement that was never given.

If Trump says 37% of people do X, and Politifact posts "actshually, this is FALSE because it's only 35.78%", then that adds precisely nothing and is a clarification without meaning.

In fact, Politifact regularly labels factual statements false if they think some factors behind the numbers invalidate the argument made (which is patently ridiculous, especially when you talk about statistics).

"Fact checking" is so wishy-washy, subjective and rife with politically biased grifters that nobody should be trusted with the censorious power that Facebook bestows upon these biased entities.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I have criticized Trump in internal messages at work, that doesn't mean my employer is structurally biased against the Trump administration. Not sure this would even be the case if I was CEO. The CEO of any company votes one way or the other but that doesn't mean the company is biased.

Overall I think FB is fucked here, they have created a problem they can't solve. They have created a large pool of basically everyone's thoughts at all times, and now people want very specific things removed from that pool, and nobody can agree what those things are.

<comment><USER10> IMO politics should be kept out of work, unless it's part of your job.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Introducing the Template Store for OpenFaaS - <AUTHOR> https://www.openfaas.com/blog/template-store/ <comment><USER2> not directly related, but I have feeling that, sometimes, we, as software designers -- under-estimate the value proposition of a 'single executable/single jar' distribution, for backend services.

If, at design stage we spend a bit more time 'designing' the run-time dependencies and packages of caching frameworks, reverse proxy services, load- balances -- we should end up with more cohesive, single executables/jars/assemblies.

the same assembly, could then be deployed at multiple hosts/end points and started up with a switch at the command line, indicating what particular subsystems need to be executed.

Single file distribution should also help to eliminate, or reduce the headaches that ops/customer teams have to go through when they are deployment our solutions.

I appreciate that docker and template attempt to solve the ease of deployment from another angle: given all decoupled, loosely related artifacts -- here is a 'hat' that manages them all.

But working on a deployment model at the design time, rather than as an after thought (or delegated to another team of devops/etc) -- I think, would help.

<comment><USER3> I'm my opinion Docker solves this fairly well, by basically having a declarative virtual machine. It's a lightweight representation of the dependencies of the application. Instead of bundling all dependencies into an executable Jar, you can define the environment for you application. Then it's still a _command line switch_ away.

What your suggesting is the operating system is the _hat_. You will have all sorts of configuration issues on that level rather than the Docker level.... I guess you can't escape the hat!

<comment><USER2> I probably failed to express a particular direction I was arguing for.

I was imagining a particular approach where ./mysolution is the delivered artifact that has compiled in business logic modules, all the technical modules, eg in memory caches, etc (basically anything that does not demand on horizontally distributed infrastructure for a single instantiation).

      ./mysolution  -start="myxyz_microservice" -start="myabc_microservice" -common_cfg=/etc/myxyz/common_config.cfg

would allow to instantiate different parts of the system (by specifying different startup name) that use the _same_ executable (jar/.net assembly) and the _same_ config. on chosen set of hosts or containers.

Clearly a few foundational services cannot be 'compiled' in.

Analogy, may be a bit too far fetch, is why unikernels (eg includeos.org ) are attractive design approach.

They simplify deployment, reasoning about versions of components(and therefore security), they and speed up cold restart time.

That 'single jar' does not eliminate the need for OS containers (docker, bsd jails), of course.

But because of common configuration, and compiled in parts -- the docker/ or host os configuration for such solutions, in my view, would be simpler than for the 'stitched together by configs, version dependencies, and config templates' solutions.</comment></comment></comment>


Real Hoverboards? - <AUTHOR> http://growld.com/hoverboards-finally-arrived/ I thought mayyyybe for a second but after seeing Terrel Owens it looks so fake. I love how they don't even explain any of the tech lol. <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7341539](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7341539)</comment>


What IDE is best for someone new to  Python ? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> TextMate, or Emacs if you know it.

No, they're not IDEs. But I bet you'll find them to be better than IDEs.

</comment><comment><USER3> I've used Komodo at <http://www.activestate.com/products/komodo_ide/> and it's very good. ActiveState has also released a free Editor at <http://www.activestate.com/products/komodo_edit/> that looks promising.

I'd encourage you though to do something simpler. If you're on a Mac go buy Textmate at <http://macromates.com/> and get acquainted with the command line.

</comment><comment><USER4> Emacs. Use CUA-mode and tabbar-mode if you aren't familiar with the Emacs keybindings. That's what I do.

I'm also fond of Wingware, but it's a commercial product. I found it wasn't quite enough of an improvement over Emacs to be worth paying for. Also, like many IDEs, it takes a while to bootup and requires a fairly large screen, both of which were annoying on my 1024x768 VMWare-inside-a-laptop instance.

</comment><comment><USER5> The Wing IDE ( <http://www.wingware.com/> ) is by far the most polished Python IDE, but will cost you.

Although, if you have an open source project apparently they may waive the licensing fees.

<http://www.wingware.com/> <http://www.wingware.com/store/prices>

</comment><comment><USER6> SPE IDE - Stani's Python Editor

<http://pythonide.blogspot.com/>

</comment><comment><USER7> Yoy may want to watch <http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8158216898634409900>

I am a Vim + iPython user ... not power user mind you :P

</comment><comment><USER8> IDEs don't matter much for beginners. I'd say: use whatever you can get working in the shortest time, and start coding. IDLE (shipped with Python) or text editor + interpreter are the two prime contenders for that.

</comment><comment><USER9> I used IDLE when I was learning Python, but I like PyScripter now:

<http://mmm-experts.com/Downloads.aspx?ProductId=4>

</comment><comment><USER10> I would say SCite editor, I grew up coding with it :-)</comment>


Google I/O 2017 - <AUTHOR> https://google.com/io <comment><USER3> Honestly, as someone who has been playing around with/working with AI in some form (previously bayes nets etc...) since the 90s and trying since 2012 to build our computer vision company - every keynote from AFGAM makes me want to give up a little more each time.

It's like even with a world class AI team the majors just blow past everyone with their on demand scale, access to data, hardware, people and distribution.

In the past three weeks the products that were shown at conferences (GTC, Build, I/O) would have been 100 different independent companies, with very highly trained, specialized PhD level researchers and developers only 5 years ago. Now this stuff is just baked in to the top platforms.

This has been happening for a while, and I've been saying it for a while too. No clue where to go from here honestly.

edit: The point I didn't make here but is subtext is that, IMO ML/AI is the last frontier for technology (an IMO humanity) so if a few dominate it, its kind of game over for the existence of smaller players generally.

<comment><USER4> I've been wondering for a long time whether machine learning will break the long-time tech industry lifecycle we've all come to regard as some kind of immutable law of nature.

Traditionally, 1) we start with big, established companies in tech. 2) A few people, dissatisfied with the trammels that big companies place on their employees, leave, found a new company, and then, 3) through superior grit, gumption, execution, flexibility, and speed, steal market share from the big companies. As the new company grows, 4) it accumulates organizational scar tissue and is slowly infiltrated by incompetent careerists, and finally, 5) becomes the very company that the founders set out to create.

We've been going through this cycle since the late 1950s, when the "traitorous eight" left Shockley Semiconductor Laboratory to found "Fairchild Semiconductor".

Machine learning might stop this cycle by breaking step #3. Big companies have access to huge data sets that no group of human developers, no matter how talented, can match. Even slow, hidebound, and barely-competent use of these data sets can squash upstart smaller companies.

It'll be like a planet, full of water and life, with a core that cools to the point where it can no longer sustain plate tectonics. Without constant replenishment, the crust seizes up, the oceans boil off, and the life dies. The tech industry will become Mars.

<comment><USER5> Generally agree with OP that ML is one of the last viable frontiers for the current generation of computer tech. We are basically taking the data generated by machines invented decades ago, and using statistics to optimize a few % of productivity points more out of them every year. This optimization applies to humans to - one day you'll be required to have an OBD dongle monitoring your driving data to get car insurance, for instance. Many facets of your life will be monitored and fed into a company's individualized production function or pricing equation.

When the economic cake is growing slowly, every last drop of productivity enhancement counts, and ML is doing a good job at shaving a few basis points off basic costs, such as energy (see DeepMind's work on Google's datacenters), transportation (autonomous cars), and human capital (making some simple jobs redundant). That's why everyone is piling into IoT/ML/AI right now.

What ML is NOT doing is creating a new paradigm/market/computing platform. It's optimizing old markets and technologies. It's not baking new cakes.

We'll see a new platform soon. The cycle of human technological progress has been chugging along steadily for a long time and has sped up exponentially in the past 200 years. I'm sure some new tech will come along soon that will allow us to bake more cakes instead of spreading icing ever-thinner on the ones we already have.

<comment><USER6> Generally agree that ML is _often_ shaving off a few % after all the low hanging fruits that can be achieved without it have been exploited, but...

> What ML is NOT doing is creating a new paradigm/market/computing platform. > It's optimizing old markets and technologies. It's not baking new cakes.

This is simply not true: there are many products/markets (such as automatic translation, speech recognition) that are simply not possible without this progress in ML.

<comment><USER7> What's the paradigm?

In translate it replaces a naive translator's job. In speech recognition it gives you a new-ish interface to systems.

In prediction and personalization it gives you what you likely want. (Local weather, local traffic info, local news, in the language it knows you understand, in the format you prefer, at the time it think you most likely want it, etc..).

It puts some "smart" into things. But translate is just a smart dictionary, it's not a real translator, for that we need stronger AI (something like the Jeopardy playing Watson + Google Knowledge Graph / FreeBase + language translation + it should ask questions if it doesn't understand something).

ML is amazing, but it's just a slow march toward more and more adaptive smarts (general intelligence) in a box (hence artificial). And there's probably a tipping point for that. When it can start to learn, or program itself, blablabla... ( [https://intelligence.org/2013/04/29/intelligence- explosion-m...](https://intelligence.org/2013/04/29/intelligence-explosion- microeconomics-released/) )

<comment><USER6> If we look at things from that point of view, then nothing is new.

What are computers good for? They are just replacing a calculator, which was just replacing some manual calculation machines, which were just replacing mental calculus.

A "naive translator's job" cannot translate arbitrary sentences for free and instantaneously. We are not far from real-time (and quality) translation that will make it possible to talk to somebody in a foreign language and have everything translated on the go (there's already a feature that replaces text in a foreign language _in_ the image you're viewing).

I don't know :) I think I'm quite satisfied with the level of disruption ML is bringing to the world. And I feel people are constantly pushing away against this ("This is not real AI!") every time we start to understand how these things work.

Reinforcement Learning is the case of a program teaching itself (without training data or instructions) but I still, some will argue it is not AI because "it's just maths and engineering hacks", I guess.

<comment><USER7> I understand how ML/AI works, and there are great things like collaborative filtering, self-driving whatevers, "expert systems" (IBM Watson), magical image processing (which just shows how much detail our own brains just imagines and fills in for us in non-ideal conditions).

I'm not saying it's not real AI, I'm saying I can't wait for the time when these separate components/models can be "synergized", when one big system can be trained for multiple tasks, and when it can train itself tasks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I know it's just par for the course, but I always get annoyed how peppy and fake these keynotes are. When they go with this kind of faux-personal style where they're staging calls to their mother on stage, etc. It actually comes across as the opposite of personal and just seems really rehearsed and distracting. I'm actually not sure who they're speaking to exactly when they go with this approach as I feel like most other people would have the same reaction as me. But I guess I don't know that for sure.

<comment><USER9> I suggest purchasing a scarf, growing a beard, wearing some flannel and extremely thick glasses, and getting some cold brew coffee to sip. Things will make more sense then.

<comment><USER10> > purchasing a scarf

either steal a used one, or knit one yourself

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> So Youtube is announcing "super chats"... Basically if you pay, your message to a live stream is highlighted so that the streamer can notice it.

Basically is the camgirl business model, fifteen years later.

Nothing bad, just...lol.

<comment><USER12> The way she said "Cool, no?!" after demonstrating this and the little silence after was half-way embarassing...

I mean, they sure DO know that this feature has been on twitch for one year now, right? It should have been a side note somewhere or an announce on a product blog, not a full blown stage demo...

<comment><USER13> I think the point of it being presented at I/O was a new API that lets Youtube streamers sync up the "superchats" with anything they want in the real world.

<comment><USER14> Why didn't Twitter make this money a long time ago? All those tweets scrolling across TV for free...

<comment><USER15> Because tweets are mostly curated for TV audiences. Paying for top tweets would show that editorial staff doesn't give a flying fudge about their audiance, and simply want to make money (which you are also giving it to them by sitting through commercials).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I've always been somewhat underwhelmed by AI stuff but Google is rocking it. As a long time iPhone user I'm really tempted by their stuff (if it wasn't for the privacy creep). Apple isn't even in the same league as Google when it comes to AI and services.

<comment><USER17> _> if it wasn't for the privacy creep_

The sad thing is, I'd pay Google $500+/yr to use their tech... _if_ they could guarantee a firewall between any of my data moving outside of Google-proper.

<comment><USER3> What do you mean? Google doesn't re-sell your data to third parties - <USER2> wouldn't make any sense. Third parties pay (bid) for the chance to put their ads in front of you...

<comment><USER18> Not making sense doesn't translate to guarantee. Third parties also include governments.

<comment><USER19> (I work at google)

FWIW the privacy policies pretty clearly outline that your information isn't given to third parties. So this is already guaranteed.

<comment><USER20> I think what would make ethbro more confident, and myself as well, was if there was a way to pay that included a contract ensuring my data _could not_ be used in certain ways without my express permission.

To clarify, I don't worry about the Google of today, I worry about the Google a decade from now, or even worse, the company that buys a chunk of it down the line that feels no such compunctions about using that data however they see fit. A legal contract would go a long ways towards preventing this possibility.

<comment><USER19> I'm obviously not a lawyer, but to my knowledge, a privacy policy is a contract that ensures that your data cannot be used in certain ways without your express consent. A future google would have the option to update their privacy policy, but they couldn't use your information unless you opted in to the new policy (which companies often do by saying "if you continue to use this, you opt in").

<comment><USER20> > but they couldn't use your information unless you opted in to the new policy > (which companies often do by saying "if you continue to use this, you opt > in").

Yes. I'm working under the assumption (which may or may not be correct) that an official legal contract (and not just a privacy policy which _may_ be enforceable as a contract depending on locale) would both require more formal acceptance (i.e. typing in your name and the date for a digital signature and a note that it's illegal to sign if you are not that person instead of just a click on a button saying "I accept"), and provide a much easier time for any individual wishing to pursue legal action against an entity that violated it (which should keep most of those violations at bay).

In other words, I see privacy policies as new, unstandardized, not taken very seriously by many companies, and possibly useless in some jurisdictions. That may or may not be accurate, as I have no legal experience.

<comment><USER19> Then wouldn't the right course of action be to talk to a lawyer and not ask google to charge you for something they already do for free?

<comment><USER20> Whether they charge you or not is irrelevant to the point I'm making. Whether they make it part of the standard offerings, or charge for it, some people would like some assurance that they have actual legal control over their data and it's harder to subvert than an accidental click, and they have some recourse should that data be abused.

This is not a problem unique to Google. I'm far more worried about Facebook than Google with regard to this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Based on the Google I/O talk about actions/home/etc it is seems like they are speaking directly to Amazon. Clearly they aren't looking at Facebook, Apple, or Microsoft here. They have Alexa in their sights.

That said, I _really_ hope they improve the hands free SMS interactions. My phone tells me I have a text and asks me to say 'listen' to hear it, but it doesn't start listening for the word until it beeps, so we enter into a staccato repeated 'listen' wait 'listen' wait then finally the text is read. Then after its read, it says "Say Ok to send a respond" not just "Would you like to respond?" where answering yes or no would be fine. It never vocalizes what special phrase you have to use to answer in the negative (if you're wondering it is 'cancel'). So here's hoping for a much better dialoging system.

<comment><USER22> I don't know. Much of the reason I keep Facebook at all is because I share photos with family and friends.... what they're talking about right now (Google Photos) pretty much solves that problem without my friends/family just needing a phone.... which means I don't really need Facebook for the one reason I've kept it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Oh man, it seems that Android Go is a better system than Android itself. The features they presented - like easy off-line sharing, downloading YT videos, data usage management up front - are ones we should have had on normal Android phones for a long time.

<comment><USER24> Agreed. Greater efficiency, lower power and data usage... are those not things that premium phones can benefit from also?

I suppose you have to give up some features, but given how few of the features on most apps I do use, I think this could be an acceptable tradeoff.

<comment><USER25> Just wait until eventually someone over the XDA forums creates an Android Go based ROM with those features back, but still with the more efficient kernel and base system.

I'm actually pretty stoked for this to be honest! Can you imagine if there was the possibility of switching those profiles in real-time, like an upgraded version of the "battery saver" that already exists.

<comment><USER26> Would be possible to use Android Go on old devices that are stuck on old android versions? if that possible it would be awesome.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> The I/O keynote always bothers me. Apple and AWS have great Keynotes that get me excited to develop on their platforms. Google's always comes across as too self congratulating.

<comment><USER28> You mentioned that Apple has great Keynotes and at the same time you wrote that "Google's always too self congratulating"?

Didn't you mean the opposite? Apple is always so self centered on their presentation that it is hard to watch.

<comment><USER27> They're self centered but it's about stuff that is relevant to me. All this talk about Google Assistant is useless to me as a developer. At least Apple talks about stuff I'm able to plug into.

<comment><USER29> Are you really watching the keynote? They literally just released TPUs to developers.

Last time I watched wwdc they had staged a standing ovation for a trashcan...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Wow, Kotlin is now a first class supported language with Android!

</comment><comment><USER31> I feel nervous admitting this, but I don't see much of value here. I am definitely not typical, I realize, and often the major benefits of technology don't become apparent until a while after they are announced. But, right now, before people show me why it's amazing, I see these things as small marginal improvements.

I'm an open minded person, though, so I'm interested to learn what I'm missing.

<comment><USER32> I agree to some extent, but the Google photos features are always a really nice touch. Having it remind you to share pictures of people you just took a picture of, or being able to share your entire library with a spouse is really useful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> The demos always get a bit excessive. I'm no journalist, but I'd be way happier if they just told us what they added and moved on.

<comment><USER34> I feel like if tech announcements should just be basically patch notes. Why all the pomp?

<comment><USER35> The answer is obvious: some people like it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I can´t help to think this was not a business as usual I/O, it feels like the concretization of the exponential nature of technology development, sported nowadays a good deal by deep learning. Notice that a good portion of the products presented in I/O weren't just a result of many people grinding away on a problem (say, iterating on a new version of a operating system), but where "machines" worked/trained on a problem in order to do something useful for us.

This is not news to me nor anyone here I am sure, but seeing it realized on a keynote where a company gives us an update on what was accomplished in roughly a year and seeing it realized in a more wholesome approach/platform (Google Assistant), instead of scattered along different products, just made me realize that a fundamental mindshift is happening on a more global scale. From makers ("I will make this machine/software so that it can help with X") to leaders of machines ("I will give the necessary conditions for the machine to help with X").

</comment><comment><USER37> I thought it was funny how video previews and superchats have been around forever in porn. Google lens made me genuinely excited. The most important bit was also the shortest: designing nets with nets. I wonder what nn experts think of that little sidenote.

</comment><comment><USER38> Watching this reminds me that the satire in HBO's Silicon Valley is pretty spot on.

<comment><USER39> Shots for each time they said platform in the keynote will get you alcohol poisoning

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> This all looks awesome (e.g. google assistant, google lens, google home, etc) but I would rather pay some $ for the service and have the guarantee that my data are my data ... than have it for free and have google mine my data to sell me ads or sell profiles to who knows who.

Maybe others are willing to trade the privacy creep for it being "free" but I'm not.

It would be great to have the option.

<comment><USER41> Google simply does not do this. They are very transparent about their security and privacy policies and I encourage you to read through the policies. Google uses the data internally to improve your experience - they are not in the business of selling your data to third parties.

<comment><USER42> > Google [...] are not in the business of selling your data

Not today, not yet

<comment><USER43> If that is your concern, how would paying into the system improve things in anyway?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Google Photos "shared libraries" looks awesome!

<comment> forgot-my-pw Just be careful not to take nudes while your kids photos sit in a frame behind you. Auto send to mom.

<comment><USER23> We're in for some fun times.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I would like to know more about that black magic of removing things from photos in the foreground.

<comment><USER6> [https://www.technologyreview.com/s/539936/erase- obstructions...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/539936/erase-obstructions- from-photos-with-a-click/)

<comment><USER45> Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> My wallet is ready. Hoping for some nice new devices.

<comment><USER47> Hope for some way of making sure Android doesn't turn into Windows XP (ie, millions of no longer supported devices connected to the internet).

<comment><USER48> Doesn't? It's already a much bigger problem than Windows XP. There are _billions_ of Android devices shipped each year, and a miniscule proportion get updates. Even the best devices for updates only get them for a couple of years.

If this isn't a disaster bigger than Windows XP, it'll only be because most of the devices end up in landfill.

<comment><USER49> This is an absurd comparison. The number of devices running Gingerbread (which is 7 years old) is around 1% [1]. At the time when XP was 10 years old, its usage was much higher.

I understand that phones don't receive updates (I've had several myself), but practically speaking it only takes about 3-4 years for the world to move to new Android releases. As of today, over 50% of devices are Lollipop (3 years old) or newer, and over 75% are on Kitkat or newer (4 years old). I've been around long enough to remember the days when people were complaining that they would never be able to take advantage of _Froyo_. That has clearly not happened to us; Froyo is long dead and gone at this point (and it's worth noting that Froyo is about the right age to compare to XP at the time of its deprecation, and has nowhere near the usage).

The Android update situation is definitely bad for security, but the situation is simply not in the same class as Windows XP. I'm pretty sure up until the point where Microsoft forceably deprecated XP, there were still new computers (especially in places like China) being sold with it. With Android, old phones become obsolete and get replaced by new ones, and manufacturers do adopt the new OS versions for their new phones which causes updates to make their way to users (albiet slowly). I don't think you could buy a new phone (even in China) with Froyo today.

[1]: [https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html](https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html)

<comment><USER47> How many Android 5 devices are still receiving security updates?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> link to direct youtube live

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2VF8tmLFHw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2VF8tmLFHw)

<comment><USER51> The irony, YouTube can't keep up with the streaming.

<comment><USER52> It can, it's your network that's the issue.

<comment><USER51> My network is fine, and it broadcasted Build 2017 w/o problems.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> LCD Soundsystem had this giant farewell show at Madison Square Garden complete with documentary and album saying it was there last show ever. Now they've come back to play tech conferences? Lame

<comment><USER54> They actually reunited a few years ago, have been playing shows since then, and are releasing a new album this year. They didn't get back together just to play a show at a tech conference.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD_Soundsystem#Reunion_and_ne...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD_Soundsystem#Reunion_and_new_album_.282015.E2.80.93present.29)

<comment><USER55> Yeah, they were a headliner at Austin City Limits last year...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> SuperChat sounds like Jackass coming to Youtube, can't wait ! Parker/Stone satirised it 17 years ago in Fat Camp episode, it's gonna be so awesome :)

</comment><comment><USER10> Google in full offence on ML/AI. Their computing advantage enables them to outperform everyone else at this point. AI dominance and monopoly is in sight.

</comment><comment><USER20> I don't have time to watch this, but I would like to go back and find highlights and hear about some interesting stuff earlier than later. Can someone point out a good liveblog/livetweet source?

<comment><USER57> Here:

[http://www.anandtech.com/show/11409/the-google- io-2017-keyno...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/11409/the-google- io-2017-keynote-live-blog)

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> Monthly Android updates everywhere please.

<comment><USER47> Yep. And tie it to 'Google Experience'. No updates? Then no Play store, no Gmail.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I'm really hoping they talk about the Starcraft 2 API they're working on. Looking forward to getting my hands on a tool less finicky than BWAPI.

</comment><comment><USER60> Did google make _another_ new chat platform?

<comment><USER39> Nope, they made a box

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> Why, oh why is the sound that bad? Sounds like they're adding reverb for the live sound and just use that for the stream...

<comment><USER62> It's at Shoreline amphitheatre, so a little reverberation is kinda inevitable. Someone should develop an AI to delete reverb, though.

<comment><USER9> don't think that would really require 'AI', no?

or is 'AI' the new 'Algorithm' like 'API' is the new 'server'

<comment><USER62> Definitely the latter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Great stuff for google home but I thought they already had almost all of this

</comment><comment><USER64> Is there no ATAP session in google I/O this year?

</comment><comment><USER60> Kotlin? Why not golang, I wonder?

<comment><USER65> Long story short, Kotlin is easy to support without substantive (any?) changes to Android runtime, golang would involve much more effort.

It's also not clear to me there's any desire to write applications in golang.

<comment><USER60> Native android application development is totally not my community. I admit I have never even heard or kotlin.

Actually, at the coworking space I'm currently streaming the conference at, _nobody_ had heard of kotlin.

edit: AH, Kotlin runs on the java virtual machine. That makes much more sense to me now.

<comment><USER65> Sorry, that's the context I should have provided! (Knowing that also probably explains why they cut to a shot of the JetBrains CEO in the audience, since Kotlin originated there.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> These Google people. They are so full of themselves. Yet they fail to deliver a profitable product besides serving ads

<comment><USER67> Seems like they are doing pretty well to me..

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> "Have my router pw, Google"

edit: Should have emphasized the using camera part.

<comment><USER6> 1) It already has it when you enter the password manually. 2) What do you think Google will do with your router password?

<comment><USER68> Yes. But are we really going to ingrain our mindset that taking pictures of passwords & sending them to the Cloud is safe?

<comment><USER69> Tons of people already save their passwords in Chrome/SmartLock</comment></comment></comment></comment>


The Meaning of "Aquemini" - <AUTHOR> https://theundefeated.com/features/outkast-aquemini-anniversary-twenty-years-south-something-say/ <comment><USER2> > The idea of having pride in the South has for a long time generally been > associated with whiteness. "Southern pride" conjures images of Confederate > flags and a longing for a time when the states below the Mason-Dixon could > own black people. But what about black Southerners? What do we have pride > in? Growing up in Mississippi, I didn't find any pride in my elementary > school named after Jefferson Davis. I didn't find pride in the Dixie flag > fluttering above my head every time I drove through downtown Jackson.

Growing up white in Atlanta I am so grateful for a southern pride orthogonal and antithetical to hateful slavery dominated, white "Southern pride". I'd still have pride in Atlanta without Outkast, but they really gave Atlanta and the south in general a new voice.

<comment><USER3> Agreed to all of the above.

The southern hip hop scene is fantastic - I think BROCKHAMPTON is carrying the torch well right now with their last release.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwk0juwZJk8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwk0juwZJk8)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I love this album. It's got my vote for the single best piece of art made in the 1990s. I don't know of anything else that has the range of content (going from swagger to fun party music to exploring the depths of the "black experience"), while also pushing ahead on the form/style front, from a couple of underdogs. It's also worn the test of time (and many, many repetitions) quite well, which doesn't have to be the case for revolutionary works of art.

</comment><comment><USER5> I was raised in Atlanta and I instantly bought tickets to see them play their first comeback show at Coachella. It blew my mind that the Coachella crowd, while awesome welcoming people, were lukewarm about the fact that OutKast was reuniting. In Atlanta you grew up indoctrinated with OutKast we literally danced to Hey Ya in middle school physical ed.

I got to see them a few times on the comeback tour but I wish they had got tapped for the Atlanta Super Bowl halftime show instead of Maroon 5.

<comment><USER3> I was at that Coachella show. It wasn't particularly great. Andre didn't even face the crowd for a significant portion of the show and performed facing away from the audience.

I grew up loving Outkast too, and I still do because I recognize just how important their impact on hip-hop was, but I can't say I was blown away by the live performance.

<comment><USER5> The Coachella show was rusty, for sure, I was exhausted from the day too so I don't blame the crowd for the energy dropping towards the end

<comment><USER3> I don't know if this is true but I think I read somewhere that andre has major performance anxiety which actually contributed to the band breakup.

Either way Aquemini and Stankonia make my top 25 of albums ever made and I'd say I have pretty eclectic taste in music.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This album is one of the best of that decade, period. It's futuristic, grimey, cerebral, and danceable all at once. The duo is at their peak and the guest verses are extremely memorable.

"Conceived under the influence of toxic wasted doctors, computer buggin, debuggin devices, and vice versa. And various viruses! Performed with laser light precision and verbal precision. For a linguistic ballistic lobotomy. Mind fuckin neuro psycho sodomy of the medulla oblongata. Exit your mind down your spine and out your behind. Fuck you."

That George Clinton spoken word verse is seared in my memory.

In my opinion, it took more than a decade before we'd see the emergence of hip hop artists who could pull off comparable alchemy with regularity.

</comment><comment><USER7> >We thought that being like a New Yorker was the pinnacle of black culture, and that if we could make it out of the South, then we'd make futures for ourselves.

As a black New Yorker who has also lived in the South, I'm glad the inferiority complex is eroding. Sorry it was there in the first place. New Yorkers can be so insufferable. "It's the best city in the world!" is held as gospel truth there. But what that _actually_ reveals is how parochial they are! Funny people, funny place.

Maybe it's a sort of Stockholm Syndrome: you must convince yourself of this otherwise the rats, rent, noise, and expense couldn't possibly be worth it.

<comment><USER2> There few cities where scraping by for a couple years is thought of as an accomplishment.

I love NYC, but I'm glad I don't live there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> It makes me happy to hear that OutKast has had way more recognition and success than I realized. From the moment I first heard those horns in SpottieOttieDopaliscious I knew that these were guys to pay attention to.

</comment><comment><USER9> Outkast on hn?? I love it. Southernplay..., Atliens, aquemini were in constant rotation in high school. Them southern boys are like the Beatles of hiphop... their albums are front to back gold.

</comment><comment><USER10> Great album. Amazing that ATLiens, Aquemini and Stankonia came out within a few years of each other. This cemented OutKast as arguably the greatest hip hop group ever. And then shortly after, they released an album that won the Grammy for Album of the Year.

</comment><comment><USER11> Most iconic hip hop formations or individuals (still) make a lot of buzz outside or around music. Outkast simply planted their work and let it explode. It feels like their marketing has always been a little bit of an understatement. It is almost too easy to forget about dre and big boi, but their work is immortal and is some of the best music has to offer.

</comment><comment><USER12> I remember watching that Source Awards when he made that statement. Some of the crowd were booing when they won the award which is why he said it. It took hip hop a minute to respect Outkast. Well I should say East Coast Hip Hop. The East coast vs West coast battle was still going on strong and both sides weren't ready to deal with the music revolution coming from the south which Outkast represented. The 90s were a crazy time in Hip Hop. But by the time Aquemeni came out they had earned their respect and that album just solidified their status.

The article is wrong though. While the night made the East coast vs West coast rivalry worse, it didn't start it. A rapper named Tim Dogg making a song called F __k Compton did. There was already tension but that really started the simmering.

</comment><comment><USER13> Aquemini and Stankonia are both all-time classics.

</comment><comment><USER14> Loved this album, but took my many many listens to get into it. It's the entry point to Rolling Stone magazine's top 500 albums if you ever decide to work your way through it

<comment><USER15> I find that most, if not all of my favorite albums, took many listens to get into. It may be just that my brain is resistant to new things, but I almost never like good music on a first listen. It is not like I dislike good music upon first listen, but it doesn't have the easy to listen catchiness of pop music. It often makes you work for it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Great album, but it's not Purple Rain or Thriller, because I don't really want to spend the rest of the month explaining the n word, among others, to my kids. Ah, well. It's a problem comparing music across genres, as they said.

<comment><USER17> We formally learned about slavery in elementary school. The teacher wrote "nigger" on the board and said we couldn't speak the word. Eventually, your kids will learn the word, but it won't be from you. It'll be from their asshole friend that dares them to say it to someone. Smart kids can handle more than we give them credit for.

<comment><USER16> If you're going to drop it on a kid carte blanche, you have some responsibility to put it in context. And it's really not about the language, so much as it is the theme of the music. The South may have something to say, but you have to have some years or seriously hard living behind you to hear it.

A five year old can handle Purple Rain and take quite a bit from it without any assistance, even if they will have to be older to "get" the song/album more fully. There is a lot of music that's really just targeted to adults and simply does not have the broad accessibility as the two albums the author referenced. I feel like Aquemini is one of these.

<comment><USER18> > a five year old can handle Purple Rain

helluva thing to say about an album that includes "Darling Nikki"</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Cracking the Crypto War - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/story/crypto-war-clear-encryption/ <comment><USER2> So, Ray Ozzie wants us to build into every OS on the planet a way for government and police to officially Ransomware our devices against us?

Is anyone surprised that there are those of us who participated in Crypto Wars 1.0 that think this is a horribly bad idea?</comment>


Hacker News Cologne Meetup on Sep 28th - <AUTHOR> http://www.meetup.com/Hacker-News-Cologne/events/28811261/

<comment><AUTHOR> Everybody is invited for good time with like-minded hackers in Cologne!

Location: Hallmackenreuther in Cologne. <http://goo.gl/pjKuG> Time: Wednesday, September 28. 2011, 1900 hrs / 7 p.m. CET

Speaker: Oleg Podsechin has volunteered to hold a talk at the very first HN Meetup Cologne! Yay!

Drop by for chats, beers, hacking and good times all around!

More links:

* <http://groups.google.com/group/hacker-news-cologne/>

* <http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169662586450362>

<comment><USER2> 90% probability I will be coming, from Aachen.

<comment><AUTHOR> Awesome! We'd love to see people from Aachen here - Thanks for making the journey!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Does anyone want another HN Meetup in Berlin this fall?

<comment><USER4> HN Meetup in Berlin would be great.

I'm considering coming to the Meetup in Cologne, but if we can schedule one in Berlin, that could be 2 great meetups in a matter of months!

<comment><AUTHOR> Let me know if there's anything we can do to help you smooth the trip to Cologne! We'd love to see you here! :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Awesome! Thomas Bachem (<http://www.facebook.com/thomas.bachem>) has announced he's attending and would have time to hold a talk. Which topics would you like Thomas to talk about?

</comment><comment><USER3> Just made an HN post for a Berlin meetup next month:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3039618>

Please vote on this thread if you like to have such an event.

<comment><AUTHOR> Cool! I've been waiting for a good excuse to go to Berlin this fall! ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I have a cold but I could do a 5 minute reprap talk if I'm feeling better by then. Would that be a good idea?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sounds good! 5 Min lightning talks are cool! Do it! Gute Besserung. :)

<comment><USER5> Okay. I'll let you know (and bring printed stuff). How do I reach you?

<comment><AUTHOR> You can reach me at firstname.lastname@example.com <http://twitter.com/blacktar> <http://facebook.com/Blacktar> Skype: blacktar gtalk: blacktar iPhone: +4915140133149 Landline DE: +49 (0) 221 3023 9530 Landline US: +1 (408) 533-8042

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Nice, I'm in! If it just wasn't such a pain to travel from Remscheid to cologne with "Deutsche Bahn".

<comment><AUTHOR> Awesome! My sympathies regarding Deutsche Bahn!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> This looks interesting, I didn't know there were enough HN users in Cologne.

<comment><AUTHOR> We hope there's enough in CGN to keep this going as a regular event with cool speakers each time! Show up and show support! :)

<comment><USER7> I will :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'd love to stop by but Bad Mergentheim is a little too far away for me :(

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, maybe there are enough HN readers up for a meetup in Heilbronn or Stuttgart?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm in! Would be great if some new faces stop by :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes! Looking forward to see you there! :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Sadly too long of a drive from Stuttgart :(

<comment><AUTHOR> Maybe you can start a HN meetup in or around Stuttgart? How's the interest down there?

<comment><USER10> Just from what I gathered over the years: not that many HN people arround :(

(or are there?)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Great! just around the corner :) I´m in!

</comment><comment><USER12> wish I could be there. but not in cologne at that time. enjoy and see you next time!

<comment><AUTHOR> Oki! See you next time, Bumi! :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Are there any meetups further down south e.g. in Hessen by any chance?</comment>


Are there any reason to use Silverlight front-ends over HTML/JS web apps? - <AUTHOR> http://www.3birdsmarketing.com/solutions/ I'm working at a company, where upper management is leaning towards using Silverlight instead of my recommendations to stick to native web applications.It may end up not being up to me, but I have staked my career and learning path on Web Applications being the way to go so it surprises me.
Has anyone had any success in building Silverlight apps?
It is for our products front-end. It will be tool for building websites, newsletters so I figure it will be even more awkward to use as we'll need to be laying out HTML with in the Silverlight environment which from what I can tell is going to be grossly inelegant. That's just one of the immediate/obvious issues I can see.<p>How is the OS X version? Does it lag behind in versions? Is it buggy? <comment><USER2> I thought this would be an 'ask hn' type thing, but it appears to just go to a marketing page.

I'm not sure there's much of a compelling reason for using Silverlight or Flash or JavaFX for front-ends in most cases. If you have a particular design or interactive needs and there's already a library or component that works in the particuar front-end tech you're looking at (a silverlight charting lib, for example), then it'd probably make sense to use silverlight. However, that's mostly from a pragmatic cost-only view, nothing to do with the technology qualities itself.

From what I recall, Silverlight does make it somewhat easier (compare to Flash) to interact with javascript on a page where the SL app is hosted. However, javascript interacts with javascript even better.

The bigger question to ask, imo, is are there things you can't do in JS that you need to? If so, use SL/Flex/whatever. Realize that you're likely limiting the audience somewhat, especially if you're going the Silverlight route. However, doing cutting edge JS is also going to limit the audience somewhat too, as not everyone is running (or can run) the latest browser versions.

FWIW, 3birds, if you're reading this, come on our to our PHP/MySQL meet up next week - we're in Carrboro, and you're in Chapel Hill :)</comment>


How the marvel of electric light became a global blight to health - <AUTHOR> https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-marvel-of-electric-light-became-a-global-blight-to-health <comment><USER2> This is ridiculously narrow minded.

The health consequences of using combustibles (fire, candles, etc.) and breathing their particulates would be far worse.</comment>


Let's Stop Pretending Facebook and Twitter's CEOs Can't Fix This Mess - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/story/ellen-pao-facebook-twitter-ceos-can-fix-abuse-mark-zuckerberg-jack-dorsey/ <comment><USER2> It's amazing how similar this narrative is to the criticism of Apple after their encryption dispute [1], right down to the "blood on your hands" and "profit-over-safety" tropes.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_d...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_dispute#Support_for_FBI)

The debate should include discussion of the degree to which these large companies mediate the exercise of fundamental human rights.

<comment><USER3> I agree there needs to be more discussion about the degree to which large companies can impact peoples human rights.

I think there's an important distinction in the criticism though, even though the rhetoric might be similar.

Apple was holding its ground against the US Gov't and defense community to avoid setting a dangerous precedent that would violate their user's rights.

While it's true that in some ways Facebook, Youtube, or Twitter are defending user's free speech, I think there's some question as to how they (or their algorithms) promote extreme views.

Does everyone have free speech if you give the most extreme voices a megaphone?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is reprehensibly crass. As a former CEO of Reddit, the author is uniquely qualified to know just how difficult and intractable a problem online harassment is; to portray it as having a straightforward solution, which could be implemented tomorrow if only the evil Zuckerbergs and Dorseys of the world weren't so greedy, is baldly dishonest and irresponsible.

<comment><USER5> Do you recall Ms. Pao's time at reddit and the actions which took place at the time? She lived this. Directly. She dealt with this. Directly.

It may be intractable to go 100->0 on harassment. Sure. But what if you could go to 50? To 20?

Is the difficulty in stamping out all harassment enough of a hurdle to not try stamping any of it out? Or is it just window dressing to ignore the issue. She says it's the latter.

If anything, her story makes it clear that it really isn't that hard to identify groups and communities that breed harassment then take action against them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> These questions get brought up too late. Of course they are much harder to address when a company is at virtual hyperscale.

Investors wanted growth, and they got growth. Growth also comes with consequences, but it's a lot harder to convince investors you aren't doing work contributing to growth in order to look at non-immediate consequences.

</comment><comment><USER7> Because we saw how well the author, Ellen Pao, fixed reddit.

</comment><comment><USER8> As long as our online conversations and social interactions are mediated by third parties that are incentivized to manipulate them, those third parties should face the kind of scrutiny that Pao is suggesting. In my view, the long term solution is (ideally market-driven) disintermediation of these third parties. The same is true for banking. As long as our financial transactions are mediated by third parties with an incentive to manipulate them, those third parties should face intense scrutiny. But ideally, they will be disintermediated rather than refereed in the long term.

</comment><comment><USER9> I think the solution to this problem is pretty simple:

Sites like Facebook, Twitter, etc. need to invent an entirely new language for people to communicate in and simply make the expression of these kinds of ideas semantically impossible.

<comment><USER3> I think a lot of anger is misplaced from people who are calling for a lot of censorship. While people complain about it, it's not necessarily the problem that FB/Twitter/YouTube allow extreme views on their platform. It's that they amplify those extreme views.

I don' think they set out trying to do it, but their algorithms do seem to prefer things that get a reaction out of people (positive or negative). If someone posts something hateful, a lot of people may click on it or respond, but that doesn't mean it's good.

Social media companies put a lot of faith being put into machine learning on human behavior, but people don't behave perfectly rationally. Especially when they're scrolling through Twitter to kill time on the can.

People who call for censorship have gone too far, but if you think Facebook/Twitter/whatever are doing an A+ GreatJob when it comes to social responsibility I strongly disagree.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Another anti-free speech nonsense article. Did you guys not read 1984 or Fahrenheit 451 in high school?

Free speech is very important, especially the one you disagree with.

<comment><USER11> Free speech means you have the right to call the President of your country a moron without legal consequences. It means you get to have political debates.

But it doesn't mean you get to harass people, send death threats, post people's private information (doxxing), and spread nude photos that were never supposed to be released.

<comment><USER12> From the article:

> _Taking down shitty content works...a place for meaningful conversation_

Right now you'll find (or won't, rather) people on Twitter banned for sharing factual but 'problematic' news articles or for referencing crime statistics.

A good number of users might find such views 'shitty' and not 'meaningful' and that's where the problem lies - people are being deplatformed, not for the red herrings of doxxing and celeb nudes, but simply for having opposing and uncomfortable opinions.

Again, from the article:

> _I still need to use Twitter for work, but my personal view is that any > content I contribute is promoting white supremacy_

Madness. Anyone with such a bizarre personal view ought not to be taken seriously.

<comment><USER11> > Right now you'll find (or won't, rather) people on Twitter banned for > sharing factual but 'problematic' news articles or for referencing crime > statistics.

These crime statistics are often being used to push a racist agenda, and private entities are under no obligation to be a platform for that.

> > I still need to use Twitter for work, but my personal view is that any > content I contribute is promoting white supremacy

> Madness. Anyone with such a bizarre personal view ought not to be taken > seriously.

I will agree that that bit she said is bizarre. Not really sure what she meant by that. I wouldn't dismiss everything else she said just because of one line, though. Each individual statement should be evaluated by its own merits. Picking one statement, using it to decide she's crazy, and then using the opinion that she's crazy to dismiss everything else starts to get close to being an ad hominem.

<comment><USER12> > These crime statistics are often being used to push a racist agenda

I agree in part. I don't think the agenda matters though. You shouldn't be banned for sharing facts.

> private entities are under no obligation to be a platform for that.

Of course, but is 'agenda pushing' on a public forum really a surprise? And why can some types of agendas be pushed and not others?

Whether you agree with what's being shared is irrelevant - the point is there should be fairness and consistency when implementing policy. That has not always been the case.

> Picking one statement, using it to decide she's crazy, and then using the > opinion that she's crazy to dismiss everything else starts to get close to > being an ad hominem.

Sure but if somebody believes that merely posting on Twitter promotes white supremacy, it signals that they're slightly hyperbolic and so should be taken with a pinch of salt.

<comment><USER11> > I agree in part. I don't think the agenda matters though. You shouldn't be > banned for sharing facts.

The agenda absolutely matters (see below). Claiming some of these people are simply "sharing facts" is dishonest. If someone with a racist agenda tweets something about black crime, it's not just for simple educational purposes, they're trying to rationalize attacks on black people. They're trying to stir up their followers to strengthen their hate.

> And why can some types of agendas be pushed and not others?

Because agendas based on racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, etc. are inherently malicious and lead to violence against innocent people who's only "crime" was being black/gay/trans/a woman/etc.

> Whether you agree with what's being shared is irrelevant - the point is > there should be fairness and consistency when implementing policy. That has > not always been the case.

Agreed, it hasn't always been consistent, and I think that's what Ellen's point. Facebook/Twitter pretend to be against hate speech by banning lesser- known users, but they allowed the popular extremists like Alex Jones and Richard Spencer because they bring in a lot of traffic to the platform. They sold their morals for cash.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>