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- Carlos Marquez
- Juan Dolio
- Dominican Republic
This conversation is closed.
How can God exist beyond space and time?
I'm trying to make sense of this "existence" outside space and time. How can something , anything exist yet not exist in space-time? Something completely disconnected from length, width, height, or point in time....
Is this a "truth" that is beyond human comprehension? For maybe this may be one the "truths" that escapes the human intellect. However there are also non-sense statements that require filtering, I believe that existence beyond space and time is one statement that requires filtering.
Does God pops in and out of existence along with virtual particles? Or is God tightly curled up( about a Planck length?) in one or more dimensions of a Calabi-Yau manifold? Or is this existence as useful as the Cosmic Peanut Butter Theory?
Asking if it's possible means nothing, however. The question to ask is, what makes anyone say this? What is the evidence for such assertions? Show me how does anyone got to this statement.
Please as you deploy your arguments don't conflate suppositions with explanations, for these are not interchangeable. Just because it can be imagined, does not make it valid, or even explanatory.
And no scripture as proof.("Behold, heaven and the highest heavens cannot contain Thee... (1 Kings 8:27)) etc, Please and thank you.
Keep the mental contortions civil & courteous, even artful which is always cool. Let's learn from each other!
"You're everywhere and no where, baby
That's where you're at"
Hi Ho Silver Lining
Closing Statement from Carlos Marquez
The operational word in my question was "how" could god or anything exists beyond space and time?, And the core answer after the often heated exchanges is that some folks believe such a fantastic particular possible yet unable to render a demonstrable explanation -why?- because it is impossible.
The incredible thing is that folks believe dogmas as such without questioning. Is similar to lets say slavery or interracial marriage or the prohibition, many in power used (still do ) the Bible to back up such views and today-thanks in a big part by Secular Humanism- are not active policies in our country. Many a Christian believed that all above mentioned stances were correct just as god exist beyond space and time.
I think that as a whole mankind is evolving away from dogmas into new horizons, faith based or divinely revealed knowledge will take a backseat to reason based knowledge. And for that process there is a demonstrable "How".
Steve Lokers
Jul 28 2013: Carlos,
- +7
Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt. As I read your initial question (I.e. "how can God exist beyond time and space"), as well in reading many of the posts below, I think a discussion of this nature needs some further clarity and guidelines (mutually agreeable of course) before proceeding in any depth.
1.) definition of terms. "God", "time"' and "space" are rather large concepts, which can be defined by various individuals (based on their own experience and ability) in various different ways. In reading many of the posts below it appears this may be a source of some misunderstanding. I would suggest use of mutually agreeable definitional terms.
2.). The question of plausibility. What is plausible? I would suggest coming to some mutually agreeable terms of what is plausible.
3.) methods of knowledge. What are the various ways in which we might "know" the existence of something.
4.)acceptable proof/evidence for existence. What is acceptable proof? I would suggest coming to some mutually agreeable terms for what constitutes acceptable proof of existence.
5.) Finally a discussion of "how God can exist beyond space and time".
A wise man once said, "I prefer clarity to agreement", and i tend to believe that. In any discussion I prefer just that. I'm not trying to argue you over to my position, just trying to find clarity. Along the way we might find we disagree, but at least we will be clear on what it is that we disagree on. We will see how far we get. Sound fair?
Best regards,
Jul 28 2013: Steve,
A very refreshing approach-Thanks!-
Before we begin this collaboration that if I write anything that you find offensive to please let me know. This is a quest and is the journey that I enjoy.
Defining God: If I told you"the world is round" or "water is made up of f hydrogen and oxygen" I think that you would agree that those are well supported claims or "Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the USA"
-you get the point-.
Still other claims have no supporting evidence like "gremlins are green" ( I mean no offense) "Pegasus had wings" In those cases in which the evidence is truly inconclusive, one may legitimately say with regard to a claim, "I don't know whether it's true." every claim must have some evidence in its favor otherwise I think is arbitrary.
To the statement: "Divine being X exist in an inaccessible realm of reality" is either unknowable or impossible. Logic can refute impossible beings, but logic can't show that POSSIBLE beings exist without evidence.
This is perhaps the first block to tackle- help me out here Steve.
Thank you!
Steve Lokers
Jul 29 2013: Carlos,
- +4
Stay with me here, we will get there, but in proper time. Your asking for evidence (item 4) before we have even defined mutually agreeable terms. Common sense and scientific method tell us that all we need to start this journey is : an interest/willingness (basis for inquiry), the formulation of a question, and a hypothesis (conjecture based on knowledge obtained while formulating the question). You've created this TED forum and formulated the question: "how can God exist beyond time and space". I assume that based on this you have some level of interest in the concepts God, space, and time...enough at least to warrant you to have started this TED conversation and pose the question eliciting responses from others.
Many millions of people worldwide currently claim to have knowledge of God, time, and space. This is the subject/basis of our inquiry. Our only requirement initially is to define terms in a manner consistent with, and inclusive of these purported beliefs. The terms will be working terms which can be revised later, until mutually confirmed and agreed upon.
I will start. I suggest a working definition of God to be: the original and creative force of life. Again, this is not asserted as fact, but simply a mutually agreeable working definition to which we can verify/assess plausibility, knowledge, proof (i.e. evidence), etc., later. I believe this definition would be consistent with and inclusive of most beliefs espoused by various current religions. Would you agree?
Jul 29 2013: Steve,
I appreciate your willingness & patience to navigate this issue with me-I'ts Monday(busy) so pardon the late reply-.
Now I agree that we should make "distinctions" so we can build a common language in order to build meaning, I also think that the 6 or so days left on this thread may not be enough time to work on the issue.
On the Deity issue if we were to assume a definition that we know is not asserted as fact we start on shaky ground, can I please counteroffer to you to start first with what is known (time, space for example) to gain traction then move from there to more metaphysical terrain. That way we start with known knows(the things that we know), then to the known unknowns(things that we know we don't know or think we know). Like putting the horse in front of the carriage rather than the opposite. What say you?
It's OK if this process of building a common language takes time-it should- Even if it takes another thread.
Thank you,
Back to work-me
Steve Lokers
Jul 29 2013: Carlos,
- +2
This might indeed take some time. Please understand that a "definition" is nothing more than a common/shared understanding. Its meaning is purely conventional and may or may not have a basis as fact. What determines its basis in fact is the application of some standard for plausibility, knowledge (I.e what can be known), and evidence and proof.
That having been said, I understand your uneasiness and hesitation in starting with the God concept first. If you would prefer we can first define "time" and/or "space". So that we might truly gain some traction in our discussion, I will defer to you. Please feel free to suggest a working definition for "time" and/or "space".
Jul 30 2013: Steve,
To make it a bit more entertaining please watch( to me is a hard concept to explain without graphics aids and math): Spacetime and the twin Paradox
Lenght contraction & Spacetime:
Simultaneity and time Dilation:
Spacetime(University of Pittsburgh)
So space and time, as physical constructs, have to be combined into a mathematical/physical entity called 'space-time', because the equations of relativity show that both the space and time coordinates of any event must get mixed together by the mathematics, in order to accurately describe what we see. Because space consists of 3 dimensions, and time is 1-dimensional, space-time must, therefore, be a 4-dimensional object. It is believed to be a 'continuum' because so far as we know, there are no missing points in space or instants in time, and both can be subdivided without any apparent limit in size or duration.
In Physics we routinely consider our world to be embedded in this 4-dimensional Space-Time continuum, and all events, places, moments in history, actions and so on are described in terms of their location in Space-Time.
Surprisingly the math involved is not really hard-compared to other Physics-.
Please do watch & read the info (I enjoy the animations!) and I hope that the spacetime explanations is satisfactory to you.
Thanks Steve.Jul 30 2013: its probably more of a squashed sphere than round like a circle
Comment deleted
Jul 30 2013: Some,
See above for quantum fluctuations,
Hawkins: Imaginary time: Although not a string-theory idea, it remains a viable option even within string theory since physicists have no evidence that any of the extra dimensions of the universe is not a time dimension instead of a spatial one.
Also Some Guy, notice that in imaginary time calculations are completed they are converted back to"real time" (by using Wick Rotation) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wick_rotation
When the paths are "summed over" the classical path comes out as most probable. So imaginary Time is just a mathematical trick to make an approach(sum over histories) to Quantum Mechanics Mathematically tractable via a Wick rotation.
As we scale down to the elementary particles -the realm of QM- things get really spooky, but for the effects of the ordinary speeds and the ordinary world we live in - I - would like to stay with classical spacetime to develop meaning and a common vocabulary and wherever it takes us.
Thanks!Jul 31 2013: Carlos,
I appreciate the links with regards to spacetime. I'm familiar with the concept. Your original question (I.e. "how can God exist beyond space and time") deals with the concepts as separate entities (I.e space and time, not spacetime), as such I would suggest defining the terms separately and independently if one another. Secondly, you state that space and time are "physical constructs", but I'm not sure I agree. How does "time" (proper) have physicality? I would argue that "time" has no physical substance, but is simply a relational quality. The physical and mathematical qualifiers are not necessary. I would suggest definitions that can be more universally applied without qualification. As an example, "time" could be defined as an interval between two points on a conitinuum, a duration.
Kind regards,
Jul 31 2013: Steve,
My original question is prisoner of language, That is I posited it as commonly used in theist vernacular.
It seems to me that time exists as much as your "center of gravity" exists. Meaning, it doesn't really exist in any physical sense since it is an abstraction over our usual language of normal three-dimension existence. That said, it still "exists" in a different but congruent sense within a larger abstract framework. Time is something of a relational entity, in that it describes a relation between two moments (object-states) relative to some standard unit.
At times I grab concepts like spacetime and lace them up as you say "physical constructs" Thanks for keeping me honest.
Is it agreeable to you if we establish that an event must occur in space at a determined time tied up to a frame of reference?
PS I don't think this is going to be a 4 day endeavor, may I suggest we build another thread to keep this alive?
Be well,Jul 31 2013: Carlos,
Indeed, we are all "prisoners of language". I think that is an important sentiment in a discussion such as this. We all (religion and science) should be aware of and respect our limitations, and language certainly is one limitation. For the sake if our discussion, I'm agreeable to the premise "that an event must occur in space (not yet defined) at a determined time (not yet defined) tied up to a frame of reference". Note that in attempting to define "space" and "time", we have used the words "space" and "time", which seems to me circular. More than a definition, we have created a premise. We have not defined the actual content of either "time" or "space".
I hope you will be as generous as we attempt to create a working definition/premise for the term "God".
This may well be more than a 4 day endeavor, but I think it worthwhile. I've got nothing but " time".
Best regards,
Aug 1 2013: Steve,
Let me shoot some arrows your way...
So that we don't get "circular"
Space: Three-dimensional extent in which objects and events have relative position and direction.
Time: A dimension(math. as a way to plot in a graph) in which events can be ordered from the past through the present into the future, also the measure of duration of events and the intervals between them.
See what you think.
Be well.Aug 2 2013: Carlos,
My apologies for not getting back to you sooner. It's been rather busy as of late. With regards to the definition of "space", what is an "extent"?
Aug 2 2013: Steve,
The degree( scope - range - size -) to which something has spread- extent- I'm rather busy as well, so it surely looks as this needs an extension of time ( well defined or otherwise!) so we are both in agreement. What I'm getting from this small process that you and I are engaged in is that is not as easy as it may seem at prima fascia and I bet the source of many a misunderstanding between theist & atheists is the simple "failure to communicate". I understand you don't want to use classic relativistic spacetime for this conversation? is that correct? Thanks.
CarlosAug 3 2013: Carlos,
You will recall in my original post to this thread a quote that read, "what I prefer is clarity to agreement". I think if more people had that approach, regardless of the topic, you might find that most discussions which might at their outset appear to be fundamental disagreements are more often times than not, more simply a series of "failures to communicate". There are other times when when our ability to communicate is hampered by the limits of language and word choice.
With regards to your question, I'm not opposed to use of any definitional terms (classical spacetime, or otherwise). I do believe it is important in definitional terms to separate what we know, from what we posit, from what we do not know. What I am suggesting is that the "classical" definitions used by physics to define "spacetime" lack in some key ways ( I mean no disrespect). We posit that our perception of spacetime has a "dimensional" quality to it, and we go to great length to document its relational qualities to our own senses, but we still don't ever define its content. In a material senses ( I believe you suggested you are a materialist), what is the material content of "space"or "time"?
Once a premise is established (I.e. the concept of "spacetime" or "God") everything that flows after it can appear quite rational and logical, it even provides great meaning to many in providing a shared context in which to describe the events they see and experience all around them. Ask someone to describe the material content on which the premise is built and the true and difficult work begins.
For the sake of our discussion, I'm ok with the definitional premise if you are. Provided we are both clear on what is known and what is posited.
Best regards,
Aug 4 2013: Steve,
OK , so that we have operational definitions to work with , and since you are OK with spacetime, I'll say let's start with that definition with the caveat that if we both see that as we traverse this waters it needs revision so it better explains any other concept then we should get the wrench out. What's in the fabric of spacetime? Let's think of it as a geometrical construct (H,W,L + T). Space and time are not tangible 'things' in the same way that water and air are, or a medium like aether ,spacetime has a structural quality of the gravitational field. For example: We assume that light has constant velocity in vacuo, more precisely it is invariant between inertial frames, and follows the shortest distance between two points. We also know that gravity causes things to accelerate in it's presence. So what happens when light passes through a gravitational field? ---Light changes direction--- the speed is scalar so does not change, but change direction you change velocity(vector) (To accelerate an object is to change its velocity, which is accomplished by altering either its speed or direction and it accelerates). And that means light follows a curved path in the presence of gravity. What we are seeing is light following the shortest path( to us is a curve in 3D), The path it follows is spacetime. It is purely a geometric construct.
Did that make sense?
Be Well,
PS My apologies for not being prompt we had a full house here today.Aug 5 2013: Carlos,
My apologies for not getting back to you sooner. Ive been quite busy as of late. Please let me know if you choose to continue the conversation. I still hold out hope for our little endeavor.
Best regards,
Aug 5 2013: Steve
Will do,
Comment deleted
Jul 29 2013: Ziggy P,
Please do join,see my comment to Steve L and give me your thoughts.
ThanksJul 30 2013: ziggy it would be helpful if you defined universe.
what elements are outside the universe?
3 first the net energy of the universe is zero. second universe creation capability does not mean all powerful. it just means simething is capable of creatung this universe, not every imaginable universe.
4 are you saying the energy in the ubiverse has always existed. no need for a god then. also does this mean energy is part of the universe that you say had a beginning.
how do you know it comes from the same source and wilk return?
5. just an argument from ignorance
it might also help if you define your concept of god.
no evidence for god in your arguments so far.Jul 30 2013: good call asking for definitions.
good luck on the god definition. there have been long ted conversations on this and lttle agreement.
also most can not be verified or use the word for things or concepts that exist e.g god is the universe. god is love. god is what we can not explain. god is a feeling.
god concepts are a confusing jumble many of which contradict each other.
so many must be false.
most of the rest can not be tested. others, well call it what it is, why personify ilove or the universe.
lots of cultural memes and pschologgy going on here.
Shawn S
Jul 31 2013: Steve, It's too bad this thread has been so lost and derailed. I thought I was actually going to learn something. I think you had a great plan that could have brought this discussion somewhere. If you ever decide to take it up in another forum, let me know. I think you could teach me a lot.
- 0
Best regards
PS I too appreciate that "wise man". :-)
Peter Law
Jul 5 2013: When I sit in the garden & watch the bees working the flowers, or the birds hanging from the feeder, it is obvious to me that God exists. When Dawkins gets red in the face insisting that God doesn't exist, it is obvious to me that he is angry with God. My tropical fish have no idea where I live. It is unreasonable of me to expect to understand how God lives; like my fish, I am just grateful that He does.
- +4
Jul 8 2013: Peter,
I'm also at awe at the Universe but that awe alone is not evidence for the existence of any Gods or the Wizard of Oz.Just because we can conceptualize anything but that alone does not make it real. I don't really know if Professor Dawkins is upset at a God he claims does not exists, I dare say that his contention is with humans, but what do I know?
I have two Siamese fighting fish (love the color hues) and it would be unreasonable to expect that fish would figure out Quantum Mechanics or Pre-K Math. Just because a question is difficult to answer we can't say well 'God did it".
"I baked some muffins!"
"What do you mean - there is no how. I baked them - that's all that happened."
"Did you use ingredients? Was there mixing involved? Heat?"
"What nonsense questions. I already told you exactly what happened - I baked some muffins. That's the whole story."
Cheers!Jul 8 2013: Peter and Carlos,
When I sit in the garden & watch the birds and bees doing their thing, I see it as proof that there are birds and bees working in harmony with nature:>)
I agree Carlos, It doesn't make sense that a person (Dawkins) gets upset at something that he does not believe exists. I think one would have to believe it existed to be upset with it.Jul 13 2013: I haven't seen Dawkins "red in the face insisting that God doesn't exist." I have seen him close to red in the face when he talks to creationists who will just ignore any answers.
Beautiful rhetoric Peter. But I find that, no matter how beautiful, rhetoric is not enough to get us close to any truth.
Steve Lokers
Aug 3 2013: To the materialists,
- +3
Just to remind everyone, the question at hand is " how can God exist beyond space and time". If you are going to force others to define God in strictly material terms, shouldnt you do the same for "time" and "space"? What is the physical/material content of "time" and "space"?
Classical physics typically posits that time and space have "dimension", and goes to great length to document and measure its relation to other things, but what is the physical/material content of "time" and "space"?
There is an current and ongoing conversation string burried deep below between Carlos and myself in which we are attempting to define terms and build some qualifying structure around his initial question.
Best regards,
freshi mind
Jul 31 2013: Why does something need space and time to exist? As long as this existence has no need to interact with current forms of energy and matter, it can exist anywhere, next to you and me, just like another form of energy which doesn't need to occupy any space. Right?
- +3
Jul 31 2013: freshi,
To your question: Why does something need space and time to exist?- because all that we know does-To exists implies that that existence it's in spacetime.
There is no known form of existence that is independent of spacetime or like you seem to suggest , non-spatial, non- temporal.
Jul 31 2013: Before the proof of the existence of something, they all can stay in space-time in the form that we don't know, like dark matter and dark energy. Right?
Aug 1 2013: Freshi,
The laws of physics at the level of everyday life are completely understood. Any new kind of matter or forces that would interact in noticeable ways with ordinary matter would already have been discovered.
Let's say I propose a field that at points of excitation gives us a particle "G" and when that particle interact with us- humans- it triggers a link to the broader field of G that has non-zero value across all points in the universe and since this happens simultaneously in many other humans you are also linked to them via the G field (forming a collective consciousness), moreover I could postulate that in the G field vibrations there is encoded information regarding the universe its formation and about how life was indeed created by this field and its interaction with carbon molecules,EMR, and amino acids to form life. Furthermore the G particle conveys information to humans "talks" to us via electrochemical impulses in our neurons, I can also postulate that the G particle is everywhere as a field thus being not bound by spacetime, it pops from past to future to the here and now, and from multiple universes and more.
Now here is the short analysis: I'm proposing a particle "G" and lets say that it interacts with a proton and the "G" particle goes its own way, if that were true then I would be able to smash protons together and create "G" particles because if the interaction with a "G" particle is so strong that it will interact with a human brain it would have been found-and it hasn't-. So "G's" could exist, but if they do they are not strong enough to be detected, or it would be to heavy to create or too short lived to detect, thus not relevant in your everyday life,- can't blame "G"s for being in a bad mood -
Could there be new forces in nature? -Yes- but they must interact with protons,neutrons and electrons and if they hide they must be either too weak or have very short range thus not relevant in everyday life.
Comment deleted
Jul 31 2013: Thanks for your point. Scientists also suggest multi-universe and 10+1 dimension, so when someone says space and time, does it mean our physical world or a broader concept. Before clearly define all of these terminologies, it would not be easy to carry on the discussion.
I think Brain Greene's talk at TED might be related to what we are discussing here.Aug 1 2013: Alberto,
There is no-nothing in Physics, The nothing with absolute zero value absence of anything is a philosophical concept. (no lab in the world holds a jar of nothingness) we don't know what nothing is in actuality so we can compare it to something.
You are right 0 # 1
All of our known physical laws breakdown at singularities due to the infinite curvature of spacetime. Hence, we say, "One second after the big bang..., An hour after the big bang..., etc." Because, we simply don't know what happened at the instant of big bang. If there were events before the big bang, we cannot use those events to determine what happened in its future, because our laws don't work at singularities.As far as we know, there haven't been a single consequence of the events before the big bang. So, it doesn't make any sense to talk about those events, Of course that doesn't mean the Big Bang theory is complete .
ThanksAug 1 2013: Carlos, I don't know why there is no REPLY by your comment, so have to start this new thread.
Do you think when you say YES or NO, your neuron behaves physically different?
Aug 1 2013: Freshi,
I don't know if my neurons behave differently when I say "yes or no"
How do yours behave?
Comment deleted
Aug 1 2013: Alberto,
In my example the "G" particle if able to interact with a human brain at an atomic,molecular level should been already detected, since that "contact" presupposes a strong interaction. That technology is already available , yet I must admit not calibrated to find my "G" particles or "G" field. I wish they were -I'll be up for a Nobel Prize-, (kidding!).
That said there is a lot of unknowns knowns and unknown unknowns .
Comment deleted
Aug 1 2013: Alberto,
If thee was a "nothing" as you postulate 0=0 I mean nada, zilch, -it just doesn't exists- now that said; If you know of any Research lab or otherwise that has a Jar of nothingness I would rather much like to take a gander at it.
Otherwise BB and the other explanations follow suit.
Comment deleted
Aug 2 2013: Alberto,
I can imagine many things but that doesn't mean that they exist, lets take 0/0 what does that means?IMO-It doesn't mean anything until we assign it value-or take 0 to the nth power where n is more than 0 as an integer so if 0^3=0*0*0=0 so n is the value where 0 occurs n times. But if 0 occurs 0 times the value has no meaning or you can say a^0 then (the value of a string where 0 occurs 0 times) but notice that a^0=a^n-n=a^n/a^n=1 for n#0 ,a#0, thus you can safely assign a^0 a value 1 when-when- a#0.
Well , I'm not a famous scientist nor can I tell you with certainty in a singularity where the laws of physics break and engage it's spooky.
Where will the "perfect nothing" (philosophical) would exist? -I don't know for if it was to exist in this universe it will be bound by spacetime and it will be "contaminated" with something. Thus IMO it has 0 probability to exist.
Thanks again!
Comment deleted
Jul 31 2013: ya, usually, if the theory has a hole, it would take a while to find it and correct it.Jul 31 2013: Perhaps We really don't know if stuff exists or could exist outside space and time.
When you talk about something being beside you you may be talking about another level to this universe. Beside implies it has spacialbpositioning.
Comment deleted
Jul 30 2013: Alberto,
Yes- human understanding is limited , and look at the last 100 years and see all the progress we've made! Sure we probably are just flexing our noggins here , but I've learned quite a bit. It's the Universe quite an enigma?-yes-but just because a problem is difficult we should not stop questioning we keep at it pushing the boundaries of what we don't know.
Think Alberto how many diseases we've conquered, powered flight, information & energy manipulation, and why not?-Physics-
In my opinion you & I can stare at the universe and be awed by it and that is cool, but I want to keep pushing beyond to the unknown-even if I fail trying-
Prof Einstein was a great man.
Comment deleted
Jul 31 2013: Alberto,
Sometimes I think that this incredibly vast and complex universe, with its hundreds of billions of galaxies, its uncountable trillions of stars – all of this – was made just for us? hmm -Nah-
I mean Alberto look at the Sun ( actually don't look at it directly-kidding-) it shines at the "perfect" temperature for us.
If I understand you correctly the world was designed for us( by a Creator) and through revelation(from the Creator) we learn more & more. So if X is perfect for humans, therefore God (or some other creator) made the universe.( I do not mean any offense I'm just trying to understand you).
Why is the sun perfect for us?- It isn't,- we have evolved to make use of the sun as it is. Plants have evolved to convert solar energy into food through chlorophyll. Humans and animals have evolved to harness solar energy for warmth. We have adapted to the environment in which we live.
Science is not Divine revelation but hard work by talented folks,lots of trail & error And Natural Methodology, has brought Science to its present state.
I fell a bit of teleological argument (universe designed with a purpose) but then again I could be wrong.
What Prof Einstein believed is in his experience, and I respect his opinion and yours as well.
There is an element of randomness to our existence take for example the asteroid that hit earth long ago and killed many lifeforms on earth changing the Natural Selection landscape.
Thanks Alberto,
Comment deleted
Jul 31 2013: Alberto,
I think I have answered (as best as I could) your last post. or maybe I'm a poor communicator...
You ask about randomness, Well I'll tell you this is how I see it:First, let's take a look at a couple of the basic definitions of random:
1. Proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, purpose, reason, or pattern: the random selection of numbers.
2. Statistics: of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen; where all outcomes are equally likely, as in the testing of a blood sample for the presence of a substance. Unpredictable.
OK, I would use the definitions above depending on the exact context or situation.I don't dispute that there are patterns in the universe, though, and even in truly random sets — like sequences of numbers — patterns will emerge. The existence of patterns does not contradict the existence of randomness. I also think that, in many circumstances, all members of a set of possible outcomes are either equally likely to occur, almost equally likely to occur, or if not then it's not possible to predict which is the most likely to occur. Theists may often believe that whatever happens does so as part of God's plans for them and the world, or God guiding events and causing certain outcomes to occur rather than others.
I could be wrong but under your lines you think that I believe in an universe without order — that randomness entails disorder — and that therefore the existence of order in the universe means that some God must exist.
The equation of randomness with disorder is incorrect,My thinking does not entail that the universe be disordered and order can in fact arise spontaneously, without any directed intervention from a conscious being. It can't be denied that the universe has order, structure, and patterns. I don't accept the idea that order, structure, and patterns are incompatible with randomness or that they require the prior presence of some "designer"Jul 31 2013: Alberto,
I appreciate your line on the thread but to the question: How can God exists beyond space & time?
Comment deleted
Aug 1 2013: Alberto,
Obviously there are patterns in our universe , we can calculate the orbit of the moon or the rotation of Earth for example, and yes once there was more spacetime available after the BB-and the energy"thinned out"- some (things were cooling down), matter began to form. And the mechanics of such events are known. This is also true for solar systems, galaxies, the calcium in your bones or the iron in your blood.
Your other inquiries for spontaneous life, or life with no purpose is off topic but I think that you are implying a fine tuning of the universe and a designer -so fine-tuning, if it existed, would demonstrate design.That argument assumes teleology in regard to life as a premise in order to prove teleology. It is, to a certain extent, a circular argument.
Also you are assuming that order cannot come out of chaos?-it has- we are here.
Still, order randomness chaos, patterns etc, the questions still remains: How can God exist beyond space & time?
PS sorry for late reply I've so busy , thank you for your patience.
Steve Lokers
Jul 30 2013: Alberto,
- +1
I agree with you with regards to the inconsistency of any attempt to define God as a coporeal being (God by definition would not be God, if you could). I'm puzzled, however by your statements that "it is laughable....". Is it the " belief" that makes it "laughable", or the attempt? Surely you understand that both the religious and the scientific mind attempt to "explain the forces that created the universe...", they simply do it in different ways.
Best regards,
Comment deleted
Jul 30 2013: Alberto,
Laughter is a good thing. We should never take ourselves too seriously. We also should understand and appreciate our limitations. But just because we have limitations does not mean we should not attempt to learn as much as we can (both scientifically and spiritually) about the universe in which we live. These limitations never seemed to stop Einstein in his pursuit. If anything these limitations simply provided him a heathy sense of wonder and respect.
It's the pursuit not je end that is worthwhile.
Best regards,
Comment deleted
Jul 31 2013: You might enjoy reading this interview with a biochemist:
- 0
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201310/davey-loos-science-researcher-explains-faith/Jul 31 2013: god in this sense seems to be describing our ignorance about the universe.
what it is and why it is this way.
not necessarily a person or intelligence.
to assume a person or intlligence is behind these unknowns is simoly an argument from ignorance.
the order in a crystal does not require any agency. as to the fundamental nature and existence of the universe there is no sign of any agency just human nature to assume one to explain stuff we dont understand.
there could be agency but just in the same way little gods might be arranging atoms in a crystal. they could be. but know way to know if magical undetectible agency behind anything and everything.
the reasonable position seems to be to withold belief on the claims of invisible agency whether it be for crystaks, gravity, disease, universe origins etc until there is sufficient evidence.
ignorance is not evidence for agency.Jul 31 2013: then why explain with or label what we do not understand, god?
seems to be personifying ignorance?
Aug 5 2013: The subject of how can God exist outside of space and time has been discussed and the subject has evolved , that is normal simply because if one for example talks about the existence of say a carrot then the subject will evovle, overall we acquire a greater and wider understanding, time and space however have no material existence, time is but a man made sun calander time and space is the void with matter in it , space itself cannot be touched seen felt , its the very question einstein would fail to answer me if I asked him how he managed to fuse time and space to create spacetime by which his GR is based upon.
- +2
As for the existence of God and the creation of life to continue the subject below then the odds of a complex molecule as noted by the astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle made a statement using Rubik's cube in order to illustrate the likely odds of acquiring a solitary biopolymer molecule. These biopolymers or to be exact biological polymers, which are large molecules, such as found in nucleic acids or found in proteins. Sir Fred then demonstrates by the illustration below as to the improbability of evolution and natural selection managing anything.
At all events, anyone with even a nodding acquaintance with the Rubik cube will concede the near impossibility of a solution being obtained by a blind person moving the cubic faces at random. Now imagine 1050 blind persons each with a scrambled Rubik cube, and try to conceive of the chance of them all simultaneously arriving at the solved form. You then have the chance of arriving by random shuffling at just one of the many biopolymers on which life depends. The notion that not only biopolymers but the operating programme of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order.
If one delves deeply into scientific hypothesis one will realise that proof of anything within seems lacking other than they have the dogmatic presence of science dominating.
Mind S
Aug 4 2013: Ross,
- +2
I notice that the talk of Dr. Gerald Schroeder forms the corner stone of your posts. I like to share with some reflections.
A scientist, particularly one with a religious commitment, isn't expected to always behave and think scientifically and some scientific workers still bear medieval mindset. Persons of this sort have psychological drives, emotional tendencies and a legacy of theistic programming that decelerate the horses of reason and logic. A bench mark is that these people can't get along with uncertainties/unanswered questions (as though one has to decipher all ultimate puzzles in one's life time) and thus feel an urge to accept absolute, final, though irrational, answers to find personal peace, tranquility and comfort. These non-scientific drives make some smart people say very stupid things and commit gross errors.
It is like the example of that scientist who was attending a conference on smoking and cancer with a cigarette in his mouth and when he was asked why he said "I know that what I do is non-logical but I can't do otherwise".
On the necessity of ethics and honesty I completely agree with you and this also points to the fact that acquiring intelligence or talent in certain discipline doesn't guarantee personal maturity or foster humanitarian attitudes. These aspects represent other traits of the human personality (note how a genius like Newton was actually an aggressive, revengeful man and participated actively in anti-Catholic politics)Aug 2 2013: Friends,
The past few hundred years have witnessed a significant degree of tension between science and religion. Since very early on, religion has provided a certain way of making sense of the world -- a reason why things are the way they are. In modern times, scientific explorations have provided their own pictures of how the world works, ones which rarely confirm the pre-existing religious pictures. Roughly speaking, science has worked to apparently undermine religious belief by calling into question the crucial explanatory aspects of that belief; it follows that other aspects (moral, spiritual, cultural) lose the warrants for their validity.
In ancient times religious concepts and mandates were unquestionable-some still think that way today- and state enforced(today that also happens) Can God exist beyond space & time (spacetime) ? would've been sacrilege.
With the refinement of the scientific method science reaches conclusions based on observations (filtered by scientific process) rather than just stating : "Venus IS the goddess of Love" a non-seen(or measured) event. The answers is to hide Venus in a realm beyond measure, making the goddess either unknowable or impossible. The only Venus left to mankind is the one inside the person mind and to that "version" of the goddess aim worship and praying.
Osiris was very "real" to the Egyptian charioteer, as Ares to Greek archer, countless people in these and other cultures believed in the veracity of their faith.They "baptized" children they consecrated homes , they pray for blessings etc.Just as we do in 2013.
I'm looking for a complete, coherent, and simple way for understanding reality, Deities make things complex, there are alternative explanations which do not require anything outside a completely formal, materialist description.God(S) are a venerable conclusion, brought up to date by modern cosmology; but the dialogue between people who feel differently will undoubtedly last a good while longer.
Aug 3 2013: Dude, the further I scroll down the more comments I see deleted, more than in other conversations... am I next?... what is going on?...
Anyways, I think you would really like a four volume work entitled 'The Masks of God' by Joseph Campbell that traces "religion" through Primitive Mythology, Oriental Mythology, Occidental Mythology, and Creative Mythology. Most people have NO IDEA how close-minded and culture-biased their deepest, most sincere, most individualized thinking is. Time and space are much better cult leaders and brain washers than anyone gives them credit for. A large one volume recommendation would be Sir James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough'
Once you see the continuity in how humankind has conceived of the world and their place in it through all the advances (evolutionary, technologically, and otherwise), it becomes sooooo much easier to see how how f-ing complicated and yet eerily clear things are....
Aug 3 2013: Daniel,
The long arm of TED is at play(i guess). It's been volatile at times, I remember "The Power of the Myth" PBS series & book , I think I have it in my library ,I'll dust it off and have a gander.
ThanksAug 3 2013: Eerily clear.... I mean, like, send a satellite/spaceship like Voyager out into the unknown with a little treasure trove of human-kind-so-far on it.... a little of the best of all of our something out into such great nothing and that really puts everything into perspective...
Don Anderson
Jul 31 2013: Did space, time, matter, energy, etc. exits before the big bang?
- +2
And could there be a parallel dimension in which the big bang never happened?
Here is an imagination exercise: Try imaging a dimension a in which the big bang resulted in light instead of matter.
*We have 118 chemical-elements; it has 118 light-elements.
*We have conscious life made of groups of chemical-elements; it has conscious life made of groups of light-elements.
*We have time, and I would think Albert Einstein would say "time is meaningless there".
*could the life there be what religions calls Angels?
HeHeHe, enjoy!
Jul 31 2013: Don,
You ask an extremely important and valid question that dazzles scientists all over the world (folks get up every morning to work on it)! It's still an open question. Perhaps nothing existed, Perhaps another universe or a different version of our own. Perhaps a sea of universes, each with a different set of laws dictating its physical reality.
To your second question: a second parallel dimension in which (our?) BB did not happened? or it didn't have one of its own? -to me?-unknown-
Man, what a Question !
Jul 31 2013: http://www.ted.com/talks/brian_greene_why_is_our_universe_fine_tuned_for_life.html
As the topic implies, this universe may not be the only universe, ergo there might have been other Big Bangs, or this could be the only universe and there have been and will be a series of BIg Bangs.
He has another good talk that gets into string theory which suggests that we have eleven dimensions, including time, rather than the traditional four, including time that we are aware of.
And another good one:
Notice the word 'multiverse.' I remember when I saw the word on the title of the TED Talk and I just paused and took a deep breath in, held it a while, and let it out slowly....Jul 30 2013: I take a fairly simple approach to this question. What does space and time exist inside of?
We know space and time exists. If everything must exist inside of space and time... then that would mean that space and time would have to exist inside itself in order to exist, but that doesn't make any sense. Therefore there must be some property which allows space and time to exist without it having to exist inside something else.
Objects within space and time are spatial and temporal objects, and therefore require the spatial and temporal dimensions, via space and time, to exist. SpaceTime itself cannot be a spatial or temporal object, for it would require itself to exist before it could exist... within itself. Since spaceTime doesn't need to be a spatial or temporal object, then I imagine it isn't too far of a stretch to say that there are other objects that are not spatial or temporal. Some of these non spatial or temporal objects may very well be used to generate space and time itself, like some trans-dimensional machine, but thats an idea for a later date.
So not only could God exist beyond spaceTime, many many other things could as well.
That's my opinion anyway, not scientifically proven fact by any means , but I think it holds up pretty well.
Jul 30 2013: Sterling,
Spacetime is "all else" at any given point in the known universe is "the" container.It does not require a "place to exist , it is "the" place itself." objects that are not spatial or temporal" is not logical since "to be" in any place(in this universe or other) any object would have to exist in a place and a time(otherwise there will be no object to exist).
We can postulate the existence of a place that is beyond our known space & time but so far no-one has come up with the goods.
Interesting post Sterling!
Comment deleted
Jul 30 2013: Some,
No contradiction-Even those particles that pop in and out existence posted in our space- time continuum.
Is Space, there is no-nothing, and things do exists in spacetime.
Thanks!Jul 31 2013: Carlos,
Do you think that existence depends solely on having a place and a time assigned to something, allowing it to exist? If yes, then why?
Jul 31 2013: Sterling,
Something or anything that exists in this -our universe- exists(or existed) in objective spacetime. Short answer-Yes-
I don't follow Plato's form theory,
I think about it in this terms: Let's say I have a glass jar and inside of it is the "perfect" medication that cures cancer. You and I will see that is empty(unfortunately).
So,we may imagine a medication that indeed could cure such a disease,but in the realm of the imaginary or the ideas -well is useless - unless, unless the idea is available as a fact in this spacetime that is, it can be obtained in a place and a given time. It will be a lot of hard work,-even luck-who knows? to bring such a blessing to mankind.
Or like in Engineering, you can have an idea of the "perfect bridge" or you may think that a "perfect bridge" is independent from your conscious idea of it and has some sort of metaphysical existence of its own (who in a metaphysical realms needs bridges, or perfect bridges for that matter?) but to me the "bridge" is the we one that was planned and built and folks and vehicles transit on.
Are my ideas the "truth"?- I don't know -but they sure work for me.
Thanks Sterling.


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Police investigate theft of 121 memorial plaques - UPDATED 1pm 07/06/12
Last updated at 13:15, Thursday, 07 June 2012
TWO men arrested in connection with burglary and theft have been released on police bail.
The pair, aged 39 and 30, were arrested in connection with a burglary at a house on Undergreens Road, Barrow, at the end of May and the theft of memorial plaques from the town's Thorncliffe Cemetery over the bank holiday weekend.
They have been released on bail until Wednesday June 27.
A total of 121 memorial plaques, most of which marked the respects of people who died in the mid 1960s through to the very early 70s, have been recovered by police.
The majority are undamaged but two have been damaged beyond repair.
Detective Sergeant, Mike Wallace, said: "Whilst we are aware of the names on individual plaques that have been recovered, anyone who has concerns about their loved one's plaque is asked to contact Thorncliffe Crematorium to assist the ongoing investigation.
"The memorial plaques were all stolen from Thorncliffe Crematorium and are mixture of copper plating and lead.
"We believe that the motive behind this heartless theft was the scrap metal value that these may have fetched.
"Fortunately, we have recovered them before the majority have been damaged.
"We have also recovered a larger metal plaque depicting a sailing ship that we suspect is stolen and are trying to trace its owner.
"There is a possibility that this has also been stolen from the crematorium but this has not yet been confirmed.
"If you have information about this plaque that can help us, please get in touch."
Police are appealing for anyone who visited the cemetery over the bank holiday weekend or who saw any suspicious people or vehicles in or around the area to contact Barrow CID on 101.
Their investigation into the burglary at Undergreens Road, which happened between 8am on Wednesday May 30 and 4am on Thursday May 31, is also ongoing and officers are supporting the elderly woman affected.
Police are keen to trace the following items that were stolen during the burglary:
Brass Candlestick approx 7 – 8 inches tall
Boxed brooches, one round in shape with silver and diamantes flower design
Pearl necklace with rear chain and string of 3 pearls at front
Dark Wood jewellery box
Black circular leather look jewellery box, flat on top with a handle and lock in the middle
Silver bar brooch with amber stone in middle
Silver tankard
Barrow Rugby embroidered motif
Anyone with information is also asked to contact police on 101.
First published at 16:55, Wednesday, 06 June 2012
Published by http://www.nwemail.co.uk
Have your say
Name, shame and make their punishment fit the crime. Make them undertake some hard physical work cleaning up our Cemetery grounds perhaps repairing, under supervision, the damage other vandals have cause to memorials there.
The sooner the legislation that says scrap metal dealers may not pay cash is enacted the better. Prejudice perhaps as an older person but many of my fellow pensioners will agree with the sentiment
i was going to post info i had received from cemetary manager who said it was section 38 plaques stolen --poeople who died in the 1960 's but after reading a lady who died last year has also gone can it be just too much to get the right information? as if it is fact my parents plaque has been removed watch this space as the matter WILL NOT end in court as i am totally unhappy--magistrates court here i come all 6 feet 5 and 18 stone ex marines !!!!!!
View all 33 comments on this article


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KENTUCKY (12/18/13) – What happened today? Here's a list of a few notable events that occured on this day in history.
1707 – Birthday – Charles Wesley, co-founder (Methodist movement)
1892 – "Nutcracker Suite," Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky's ballet, premieres
1892 – Richard Owen, English zoologist (Dinosaurus), dies at 88
1936 – First giant panda imported into US
1946 – Birthday – Steven Spielberg, Cincinnati, director (ET, Close Encounters, Jaws)
1963 – Birthday – Brad Pitt, Shawnee, Oklahoma, American actor (12 Monkeys, Fight Club)
1966 – Dr. Seuss' "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" airs for first time on CBS
1970 – Birthday – Cowboy Troy, American rapper
1978 – Birthday – Katie Holmes, Toledo, Ohio, American actress (Dawson's Creek, Batman Begins)
1980 – Birthday – Christina Aguilera, American singer (Genie in a Bottle, What a Girl Wants)
1983 – Wrestler Hulk Hogan (30) weds Linda Claridge
1988 – Seattle Seahawks win their first ever division title with 9-7 record
1997 – HTML 4.0 is published by the World Wide Web Consortium
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Andrei Arlovski returns to UFC - MMA Fighting
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Neither White nor Arlovski's manager Leo Khorolinsky were available to further comment on the news.


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Jura Impressa Z9 One Touch TFT Super Automatic Coffee CenterAs comfortable as we are with smart phones, wouldn't it be nice if our other appliances operated with such ease? While we can't help you simplify that complicated toaster oven (seriously, is it a toaster or is it an oven?), the Jura Impressa Z9 is here to streamline your java routine. Featuring a TFT color display with a customizable home screen for maximum convenience. Easily replace and rename up to six programmable drink options on the home screen by choosing from the integrated drink library. Learn More$3,699.00
Krups Falcon EA844250 Superautomatic Espresso MachineEnhance your coffee experience and soar to new heights with the Krups Falcon superautomatic espresso machine. From the very beginning you'll notice this majestic machine guides you through the complete start-up process and straight to the main event - brewing! When you reach the home screen you immediately have one-touch access to an espresso, ristretto, coffee, hot water or steam. For rich and creamy steamed milk, simply attach the Super Cappuccino accessory to the Falcon's steam wand and milk container of your choosing and select the steam option from the home screen. With operations so instinctive, it's as though Mother Nature intended it. Learn More$999.99
Jura Impressa F8 TFT Automatic Coffee Center"Impressa" your friends with the new Jura Impressa F8 Automatic Coffee Center! Delivering high quality, freshly brewed espresso or coffee with a touch of a button, this machine pulls out all the stops with the TFT color display, its vast array of pre-programmed drink choices and optional "expert" customization. Learn More$2,199.00
Jura Impressa C60 Automatic Coffee CenterAlways improving and keeping well ahead of the curve, Jura has created a machine that simultaneously mimics and improves on it's predecessor. Meet the Jura Impressa C60! The clear successor to the Impressa C5, this machine offers the same necessary functionality to one-touch your way to the drink of your dreams, all while offering a more convenient process. Learn More$999.00
Saeco Minuto Carafe Automatic Espresso Machine & Coffee MakerNever again will you have to wait a 'minuto' for a fresh espresso, coffee or cappuccino. The Saeco Minuto Carafe provides a freshly brewed caffeine jolt with just a touch of a button. Simply adjust the coffee lever down for espresso or keep the lever in the upright position for coffee. Navigate the home screen by choosing from five different coffee strengths ranging from extra mild to extra strong. When a milk-based drink is a must, remove the hot water spout and attach the milk carafe for a one-touch cappuccino. Learn More$1,299.00
Krups Barista One-Touch Fully Automatic Espresso MachineGlimpse into the future of superautomatics with the Krups Barista One-Touch. The EA9010, an update from its predecessor (the EA9000), brings new meaning to superautomatic with its fully integrated one-touch digital screen and easy to read illustrated options. Customize up to eight different recipes per user profile for volume, temperature, and coffee dosage desired. Or simply start-up the Barista One-Touch and select from one of 17 pre-programmed recipes with just a touch of a button. Learn More$2,499.95
Saeco Gran Baristo Espresso Machine with Removable Bean ContainerThe Saeco Gran Baristo with removable bean container arrives on the scene as one of the most advanced superautomatic machines to date. Offering the sleek silhouette of a slim computer tower and new functionality to boot, we're certain this machine will more than please the pickiest espresso and coffee drinkers in your life. Learn More$2,499.00
Saeco Gran Baristo Superautomatic Espresso MachineContinually improving the bean-to-cup experience, the Saeco Gran Baristo now makes cleaning and maintenance an effortless task with their one-finger removable brew group. Auto-cleaning and descaling cycles have also been streamlined and now require 80% less water than previous Saeco superautomatics. Reduced water consumption helps save water for the fishes, creates a 'greener' machine and less tank refilling for you! Learn More$2,199.00


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Likishi Dance Costume Leggings
This complete dance costume shows how masks are normally one part of a larger ensemble. The mask is sewn directly onto the costume of looped bark and fiber, which fits tightly over the body of the dancer. Seedpod rattles and metal bells added a musical aspect to the performance.
Although they are danced by Luvale men, mwana pwevo masks depict women. In order to own and perform with a mask, a man had to symbolically marry it by paying the carver a copper ring as a bride price. In so doing, the dancer made a commitment to honor and care for the spirit represented by the mask. In return, the dancer was able to earn his livelihood performing at local festivals.
This text refers to these objects: ' 36.548; 36.554; 36.549; 36.550a-b; 36.551a-b; 36.552; 36.553
- Culture: Luvale
- Medium: Bark, rope
- Place Made: Zambia
- Dates: late 19th or early 20th century
- Dimensions: 41 x 25 1/4 in. (104.1 x 64.1 cm) (show scale)
- Collections:Arts of Africa
- Museum Location: This item is on view in African Storage Annex, East Gallery, 1st Floor
- Exhibitions:
- Accession Number: 36.549
- Credit Line: Museum Collection Fund
- Rights Statement: Creative Commons-BY
- Caption: Luvale. Likishi Dance Costume Leggings, late 19th or early 20th century. Bark, rope, 41 x 25 1/4 in. (104.1 x 64.1 cm). Brooklyn Museum, Museum Collection Fund, 36.549. Creative Commons-BY
- Image:
- Catalogue Description: Brown and tan bark rope trousers worn by dancer as part of a Pwo dance costume. See 36.548 Condition: Worn.
- Record Completeness: Best (89%)


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News & Public Affairs
Bob Buckhorn Inaugurated as Mayor of Tampa listen04/01/11 Seán Kinane
WMNF Drive-Time News Friday Listen to this entire show:
Tampa has a new Mayor. Bob Buckhorn was inaugurated this afternoon in a ceremony at the Tampa Convention Center.
The seven members of the Tampa City Council also took their oaths of office this afternoon. Mary Mulhern, Yvonne Yolie Capin, and Charlie Miranda are returning members. Mike Suarez, Harry Cohen, Frank Reddick, and Lisa Montelione are new Council members. Miranda was elected new chair with four votes.
Mayor Buckhorn:
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"Look around this room, ladies and gentlemen. If you eve...
Tampa mayoral runoff hits final day - will it be Ferlita or Buckhorn? listen03/22/11 Kate Bradshaw
WMNF Drive-Time News Tuesday Listen to this entire show:
Tampa voters have just a few hours left to cast a ballot in the race for mayor and several City Council seats. Throughout town, candidates have amped it up for the home stretch despite a paltry turnout so far at the polls.
"Hi, we're calling on behalf of Bob Buckhorn. He's running for Mayor today."
With just hours to go, campaign workers at mayoral candidate Bob Buckhornâs Ybor City election headquarters were still plugging away this afternoon, dialing everyone listed on the voters r...Be the first to comment
Final Debate Between Tampa Mayoral Candidates03/21/11 Robert Lorei
Radioactivity: Live Call-In (Friday)
Good morning, welcome to Radioactivity. I'm Rob Lorei. Tomorrow (Tuesday) Tampa voters will select a new mayor. The two candidates in a runoff election are Bob Buckhorn and Rose Ferlita. Last Friday they sat down with me in the WEDU-TV studios for their last face-to-face debate. We'll replay that debate on the first part of today's program and then take your phone calls.Be the first to comment
Last Call with Ed Turanchik03/10/11 Mitch Perry
Radioactivity: Live Call-In (Tuesday)
Ed Turanchik came on the show to talk about his campaign running for mayor of Tampa.Be the first to comment
Buckhorn and Ferlita go head to head for the first time listen03/09/11 Janelle Irwin
WMNF Drive-Time News Wednesday Listen to this entire show:
Last week, Rose Ferlita and Bob Buckhorn beat out Dick Greco and two other challengers for Tampa Mayor. They will face each other in a runoff in two weeks. The two candidates debated head-to-head for the first time last night at Blake High School and touched on some tough topics.
Job creation is on the minds of just about everyone in this struggling economy and Tampa is no exception. Tampa Mayoral candidates Bob Buckhorn and Rose Ferlita are promising to bring jobs to Tampa. Ferlita said...Be the first to comment
In what direction is the Governor and Legislature planning to take Florida?03/09/11 Robert Lorei
Radioactivity: Live Call-In (Wednesday) Listen to this entire show:
Good morning, welcome to WMNF's Radioactivity. I'm Rob Lorei. Coming up today St. Petersburg Times columnist Dan Ruth will discuss the Governor's State of the State address, worker opposition to some GOP plans and the Tampa mayor's race.Be the first to comment
Iorio praises city staff, chastises Gov. Scott in final State of the City Address listen03/09/11 Kate Bradshaw
WMNF Drive-Time News Wednesday Listen to this entire show:
Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio delivered her final State of the City address at the Tampa Convention Center this morning to a room full of supporters. She had glowing things to say about Tampaâs progress over her tenure, but Iorio said there was one missing piece.
Iorio said she had some lofty goals in when she first took office in 2003. The mayor, who leaves office at the end of this month due to term limits, said she accomplished most of them.
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"I talked about opening up the river to the peo...
Buckhorn and Ferlita in runoff for Tampa Mayor - Greco left behind listen03/02/11 Janelle Irwin
WMNF Drive-Time News Wednesday Listen to this entire show:
Tampa Mayoral candidate Bob Buckhorn, just moments after learning he had beat out front runner Dick Greco in last night's election, summed up what turned out to be a surprising upset. Buckhorn celebrated his victory last night at JJ's Sports Bar in Ybor City. But his victory celebration won't last long. He will need to continue on his campaign trail for the March 22 runoff against Rose Ferlita. Buckhorn defeated Greco by a narrow margin of only 384 votes according to unofficial election ...Be the first to comment
Interview With Rev. Thomas Scott Who Is Running For Mayor Of Tampa02/21/11 Robert Lorei
Radioactivity: Live Call-In (Friday) Listen to this entire show:
Good morning, welcome to radioactivity. I'm Rob Lorei. On the first part of today's program we'll hear from Tampa City Council Chair Thomas Scott who is running for mayor. He previously served two terms on the Hillsborough County Commission. Later in this program we'll hear from Tampa City Council member Linda Saul Sena who is organizing a pro-high-speed rail rally today at noon at Tampa City hall.Be the first to comment
At Channelside mayoral forum, Greco explains panty raid statement listen02/09/11 Kate Bradshaw
WMNF Drive-Time News Wednesday Listen to this entire show:
As the Tampa Mayorâs race hits the home stretch, the five candidates are each fighting to distinguish themselves as the one best prepared to lead the city out of the recession. The five met in the second of three debates slated for this week.
Anyone whoâs run for office in the past year or two knows that a campaign message has to be mostly about jobs. At a mayoral debate at the St. Pete Times Forum, the five Tampa mayoral candidates hammered the jobs message home. But fielding question...Be the first to comment
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OncoLink Team
The Abramson Cancer Center of the University of Pennsylvania
Last Modified: July 9, 2014
Pronounced: A-bir-A-ter-one AS-e-tate
Classification: Anti-androgen
Most prostate cancers need supplies of the male hormone testosterone to grow. Testosterone is an androgen (hormone) produced by the testes and adrenal glands. Abiraterone acetate works by blocking an enzyme necessary for the production of testosterone. Without testosterone, the cancer cells may either grow more slowly, or stop growing altogether.
Abiraterone acetate is given as a tablet that should be taken once a day, on an empty stomach, 1 hour before or 2 hours after eating. Take the tablet(s) whole with water; do not chew break or crush them.
The blood levels of this medication can be affected by certain foods and medications, so they should be avoided. These include (but are not limited to): rifampin, phenytoin, St. John's wort and dexamethasone. Be sure to tell your healthcare provider about all medications and supplements you take.
There are a number of things you can do to manage the side effects of abiraterone acetate. Talk to your doctor or nurse about these recommendations. They can help you decide what will work best for you. These are some of the most common side effects:
Most men find that hot flashes decrease after a period of time on the medication. There are a few things you can do to help with hot flashes. Several medications have been studied, including some low doses of antidepressants (such as venlafaxine and Paxil), and certain hormone therapies (medroxyprogesterone acetate and cyproterone acetate). Non-medical recommendations include: keeping well-hydrated with eight glasses of water daily, wearing cotton or lightweight, breathable fabrics, dressing in layers, exercising on a regular basis (generally walking exercise is best), practicing relaxation exercises, and avoiding triggers such as warm rooms, spicy foods, caffeinated beverages, nicotiene and alcohol.
This drug can affect your reproductive system, resulting in sperm production becoming irregular or stopping permanently. In addition, you may experience erectile dysfunction or a decreased desire for sex during treatment. Talk to your urologist about options for treating erectile dysfunction.
Exposure of an unborn child to this medication could cause birth defects, so you should not father a child while on this medication. Effective birth control is necessary during treatment, even if you believe you are not making sperm. Pregnant or breastfeeding women should not touch this medication without wearing gloves. Men who are sexually active with a pregnant woman must use a condom during treatment and for 1 week after stopping treatment with this medication.
Talk to your doctor or nurse so they can prescribe medications to help you manage this side effect. In addition, dietary changes may help. Avoid things that may worsen the symptoms, such as heavy or greasy/fatty, spicy or acidic foods (lemons, tomatoes, oranges). Try antacids, (e.g. milk of magnesia, calcium tablets such as Tums), saltines, or ginger ale to lessen symptoms. Read the Nausea and Vomiting Tip Sheet for more suggestions.
Men who take hormone therapy for extended periods of time are at risk for bone thinning (osteoporosis). You may be advised to take calcium and vitamin D supplements to help prevent bone loss. You may have a bone density scan (DEXA scan) to assess your bone health. If your physician determines that you are at high risk of developing osteoporosis, they may recommend additional treatment with a type of medication called a bisphosphonate to help strengthen the bones. Learn more about bone health after cancer therapy.
Abiraterone acetate can cause elevated blood pressure (hypertension) and fluid retention. Your oncology team will monitor you for these side effects. If you experience headaches, dizziness, fast heartbeat, rapid weight gain or swelling in your legs or feet, notify your oncology team.
Your oncology team can recommend medications to relieve diarrhea. Also, try eating low-fiber, bland foods, such as white rice and boiled or baked chicken. Avoid raw fruits, vegetables, whole grain breads, cereals and seeds. Soluble fiber is found in some foods and absorbs fluid, which can help relieve diarrhea. Foods high in soluble fiber include: applesauce, bananas (ripe), canned fruit, orange sections, boiled potatoes, white rice, products made with white flour, oatmeal, cream of rice, cream of wheat, and farina. Drink 8-10 glasses on non-alcoholic, un-caffeinated fluid a day to prevent dehydration. Read Low Fiber Diet for Diarrhea for more tips.
Your red blood cells are responsible for carrying oxygen to the tissues in your body. When the red cell count is low, you may feel tired or weak. You should let your doctor or nurse know if you experience any shortness of breath, difficulty breathing or pain in your chest. If the count gets too low, you may receive a blood transfusion. Read the anemia tip sheet for more information.
While on cancer treatment you may need to adjust your schedule to manage fatigue. Plan times to rest during the day and conserve energy for more important activities. Exercise can help combat fatigue; a simple daily walk can help. Talk to your healthcare team and see OncoLink's Fatigue Tip Sheet for helpful tips on dealing with this side effect.
Abiraterone acetate can cause liver toxicity, which your doctor may monitor for using blood tests called liver function tests. Notify your healthcare provider if you notice yellowing of the skin or eyes, your urine appears dark or brown or pain in your abdomen, as these can be signs of liver toxicity.
This medication can cause muscle and joint pain or aches. Talk to your healthcare provider about medications to help with this pain.
Some men report mood swings and depression while on hormone therapy. It can be helpful to talk about concerns and feelings with a partner or close friend. If you find that feelings of sadness are interfering with life, talk with your team about finding a counselor experienced in working with cancer patients.


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Narrow your search
Gotye's "Somebody That I Used to Know" has become the most-tagged track ever on Shazam's track ID service, topping 11 million tags and a likely sell through of 1 million downloads.
The company today revealed that Gotye's "Somebody That I Used to Know" was its most popular track in the U.S. this year.
There's a lot to love about Kumobius' new game. CNET Australia talked to Gotye touring musician Tim Shiel about how he created Duet's amazing soundtrack.
Welcome to "Medieval Land Fun-Time World," a decidedly odd -- and decidedly hilarious -- take on "Game of Thrones."
The awards show offers some good examples of how to use social media.
Apple's digital music store shows no signs of slowing down, even in the face of new competition from the likes of Pandora and Spotify.
This music video from Melbourne band Clubfeet was shot in one continuous take — but it doesn't look like any normal one-take video you've seen before.
We dropped a staggering £1,033,000,000 on digital video, music and games, an 11.4 per cent rise on 2011.
The world's largest social network compiled data on the top trends, memes, and events of the last year.
Want to see what your fellow countrymen and women were streaming in 2012? Spotify spills the beans on the music listening habits of Aussies.


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Pay R4 929 for a five-night stay for two people, including return airport transfers, welcome drinks, a fruit basket and a one-hour massage, valued at R10 100
Pay R6 951 for a seven-night stay for two people, including return airport transfers, welcome drinks, a fruit basket and two one-hour massages, valued at R13 880
Pay R13 770 for a 14-night stay for two people, including return airport transfers, welcome drinks, a fruit basket and five one-hour massages, valued at R26 948
The Hotel
A spectacular new hotel by the multi award-winning Kalara group, Code blends cutting edge architectural style with exceptional levels of comfort; making it the ideal choice for the discerning traveller. Set on the luxurious island of Koh Samui, guests can enjoy all the fantastic facilities one would expect to find in a five-star setting, including a breathtaking infinity pool, state of the art gym, steam room, spa, restaurant, barbeque area with a bar and pool table, and sweeping tennis courts. Boasting an awe inspiring panoramic ocean view across the turquoise waters of the Gulf of Siam, guests easily spot the popular islands of Koh Phangan and Koh Tao from their private balconies. Each Code suite is impeccably appointed and custom-designed to provide guests with the highest level of uber-chic and modern luxury; a further indication for Code winning several design awards for both 2011 and 2012. Best described as flawless, the stunning Code boutique resort is second to none.
Koh Samui
While guests may spend the majority of their time soaking up the sun in the breathtaking infinity pool, or freeing up tension with a glorious massage at CinnamonSpa, exploring the island of Koh Samui is a must. The home of luxurious five and six-star resorts, Koh Samui boasts a pristine international standard golf course in close proximity to Code, and the legendary celebrity hangout called Nikki Beach Club is a mere 15-minute drive from the hotel. Set against a backdrop of tropical beaches, coconut groves and heavenly, natural scenery, the island also boasts some of the region's finest restaurants and world-class destination spas. As one of the most popular and sophisticated resort islands in Thailand, your Koh Samui retreat guarantees an experience you won't soon forget.
If Steve Jobs had designed any hotel this is what it would look like! The staff were extremely accommodating - unlike other high-end hotels; the beach was like paradise, the food in the restaurant- sublime, the only downside was that we couldn't stay for longer.
– Seher, K


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Steelers notes for Browns gamePosted by on November 20, 2012 – 11:09 am
Check out the Steelers notes for this week's game against the Cleveland Browns.
Posted in News | 7 Comments »
7 Responses
to "Steelers notes for Browns game"
By Wayne Zeidenstein on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply
Hope they beat the browns!
By Mike Carrasco on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply
The Steelers are in good hands with Charlie Batch at the controls. Charlie Batch is a Veteran QB and has done the job before and he can do it again. The Almighty will guide him over this little bump this week without any problems. Next week the Almighty will help him to tear the Ravens apart with ease. Have no fear Charlie Batch is here. See you all on Sunday!
By Kathy Hinsman on Nov 21, 2012 | Reply
Let's go Steelers! We need 2 important wins this week and next.
If God is a Steelers fan (and I think He is) he'll bring Ben back to us for next week's game against the Ravens. Charlie will do a great job this week but we need Ben to beat the Ravens.
By Chris on Nov 21, 2012 | Reply
Hey, I am going to the game in Cleveland to watch the Steelers beat the Brownies again…anybody know whether the Browns will wear their white or Brown colors?
By Chuck hewitt on Nov 21, 2012 | Reply
I Just want to say Hines Ward, Great blocker,reliable receiver,And might I add a QUARTERBACK.! We are steeler nation we live and die steelers. why is it that we couldn't move the football with 2 veteran Quarterbacks and 3 running backs at home before an awesome croud..How is it that we have players who play the game of football get paid huge amounts of money but have a difficulty moving from the right side to the left side,
By Chuck hewitt on Nov 21, 2012 | Reply
By Bonnie Alfred on Nov 22, 2012 | Reply
The Steelers will be fine it doesn't take just one man to win it takes the whole team and they work well together. Hope they win which I think they will they are the best team in more ways then just playing the game. GO STEELERS!
Sorry, comments for this entry are closed at this time.


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AAMFT provides a unified voice for all marriage and family therapists. We believe that relationships are foundational to the health and well-being of individuals, all forms of the family, and communities. We know that family therapy is effective and that family therapy works. We also believe that consumers should have access to mental health care, including the services of marriage and family therapists.
Over 25,000 family therapists, practitioners, educators, researchers, and students have made a commitment to support the AAMFT's mission through AAMFT membership. AAMFT members live in the United States and throughout the world. AAMFT members work in a variety of settings such as independent practice, academia, agencies, hospitals, EAPs, and schools. While the practices are diverse, AAMFT members share a common belief that relationships matter, and that family therapists can help strengthen relationships and individual's health and well-being.
Where do MFTs work?
Marriage and family therapists work in a variety of settings including:
• Inpatient facilities
• Employee Assistance Programs
• Health Maintenance Organizations
• Community Mental Health Centers
• Business and Consulting Companies
• Schools and Head Start Centers
• Social Service Agencies
• Universities and Research Centers
• Courts and Prisons
• Private Practice


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Its location alone – in the heart of Hamburg and yet right next to a large park – sets the CCH apart. The ICE train station is right on the doorstep, it's just a 15-minute taxi ride to the airport and there are 20 four-star hotels within a ten-minute walk. The city centre with its shopping arcades, theatres, galleries and museums is only around 500 metres away.
In addition to its unique location, the CCH offers a range of modern congress facilities – including award-winning technology, 23 rooms that can be flexibly arranged and provide seating for 12,500 in total, and a 7,000m² multi-functional exhibition hall right next to the conference area. All in all, the CCH has more than 10,000 square metres of exhibition space. Together, Hamburg Exhibition Centre and the CCH provide two highly professional venues for the trade fair and congress sectors, and they can be easily used in conjunction with each other thanks to their close proximity.
Around 280 events are held at the CCH every year. Forty large-scale events for a total of more than 240,000 participants have already been booked for the period up to 2016, including the World Lions Convention and the Protestant Church Conference in 2013.


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Avant-Garde, Technologically Advanced Fashion is Theme of Kent State University Museum Exhibit, Shifting ParadigmsPosted Oct. 29, 2013
Professors from the Kent State University School of Fashion Design and Merchandising, Margarita Benitez and Noël Palomo-Lovinski, recently opened their co-curated exhibit, Shifting Paradigms: Fashion + Technology at the Kent State University Museum in the Broadbent Gallery through Aug. 31, 2014. The exhibition examines present examples of clothing, accessories, and online business models that utilize or are developing new types of technologies. The exhibit features a diverse collection of technologically advanced and avant-garde fashion and accessories. Visitors will appreciate the collaborative creative output of these designers, artists and technologists, which are beautiful and suggest the enormous possibilities for the future of fashion. The Kent State University Museum is located in Rockwell Hall, on the corner of Main Street (Route 59) and S. Lincoln Street on the campus of Kent State University. This exhibit is supported by the National Endowment for the Arts. For more information, please call 330-672-3450 or visit www.kent.edu/museum. Admission is $5 adults, $4 seniors, $3 students up to age 18, free for Kent State University faculty, staff and students. Parking is free. Hours for the Museum as well as the Museum Store, located just inside the lobby, are Wed., Fri., Sat. 10 am – 4:45 pm, Thurs., 10 am – 8:45 pm and Sun., 12 pm – 4:45 pm.
"There are some amazing pieces from local, national and international designers and artists. One of the pieces, Intimacy White by Studio Roosegaarde, is a dress made of smartfoils that turns transparent when you get close to it. I think this dress is particularly special to show here due to the history of LCD technology and KSU," said Benitez.
Shifting Paradigms: Fashion + Technology is divided into four sections. Generative Technology uses algorithmic patterns on a computer to create surprising design outcomes. Democracy of Preference presents mass customization tools that allow consumers to co-create with brands and designers to create one-of-a-kind individualized products. Technology and Expression examines designer's ability to utilize technology in new and exciting uses, expanding notions of creativity and communication.
The DIY portion of the exhibition explores fashion technology within the making movement by showcasing toolkits and materials anyone can use in their own creations and designs.
"I'm particularly fond of the DIY sections as I love the fact that anyone with a little time and not so much money can play with integrating technology into their own fashion creations," said Benitez, whose passion lies in interactivity and interaction design with an emphasis on interactivity in textiles and fashion."
This exhibit will be an eye-opening experience into advancements affecting the way everyone dresses or interacts with fashion in the future," said co-curator and professor Palomo-Lovinski. "The exhibition is unique in Ohio and Kent State Museum. We have an amazing collection of international and national cutting-edge artists."Full list of designers included in the exhibition:
1 X 1 Studio (Cait Reas + Casey Reas)
Beta brand
Cedric Flazinski
Mary Huang
Nervous Systems
Simon Thorogood
Marloes ten Bhomer
Ying Gao
Zaha Hadid
Valérie Lamontagne
Anke Loh
Alexander McQueen
Bryan Oknyansky
Anastasia Radevich
Studio Koya
Studio Roosegaarde
Lisa Shahno
Squid London
American Apparel Thermochromic T-Shirt
Stoll Fashion & Technology
Otto Von Busch
ELECTRONIC INTERFACE SWATCHBOOK / Georgia Tech
We are also including some snippets of runway shows and images from these fashion designers:
Alexander McQueen
Hussein Chalayan
Balenciaga by Nicholas Ghesquiere
Issey Miyake
Iris Van Herpen
Viktor & Rolf
For more information contact:
Effie A. Tsengas, email@example.com, 330-672-8398