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I got really cool dinosaur shoes in the post
I got a really cool Rolling Stones TShirt with a union jack which will really piss off my anti english uncle
Thank You Brocolee from Harry Benjamin
Moderators: Jason, Toothy, Tonyblack
Dotsie wrote:Anti-English? What did we do? I mean, recently?
And also, pics please
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Trix Clutching Baby Toy
Baby will stay busy discovering the various ways to manipulate the Trix Clutching Baby Toy, which features six rainbow-colored triangles connected with an elastic band. Your child will refine her motor and thinking skills as she manipulates the triangles and creates different shapes and figures. A circle is created when she points the outer corners of each triangle inward; when they face out, your child will see a beautiful star. Move just a few of the triangles to create additional designs. The triangles are made of beech wood that is taken only from PEFC-certified sustainable forests in Germany.
- Recommended For Babies 6 Months And Older
- Twists to form a star, triangle, and other shapes
- Measures approximately 3.75 inches in diameter
- Made of beech wood coated with multiple layers of water-based, natural, solvent-free lacquers
- Lovingly Designed In Germany By Our Talented Friends At Haba
- Made in Germany

subset: commoncrawl


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Chamonix Mont-Blanc offers a wide range of accommodation in either hotels, chalets, apartments, gites, bed & breakfasts or campsites. Whether you're looking for, a pretty hamlet, small village or cosmopolitan town, there's something for everybody in the Chamonix valley.
All accommodations listed in this directory are members of the Chamonix-Mont-Blanc tourist office association.


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Armed with a two-month crash course in undercover drug buys, a youthful wardrobe from Forever 21 and a lot of material from Facebook, the sheriff's deputy identified only by her code name "A-2" was ready to go back to high school.
But could a woman in her late 20s realistically pass as a teenager? Yes, it turns out, and quite successfully.
For one semester, the "transfer student" made new friends, did homework and took tests — all with the ultimate goal of covertly ferreting out drug activity among fellow classmates.
The yearlong sting included two other undercover deputies. Together the trio operated at four North County high schools — Ramona, Poway, Mission Hills and Abraxas — with the investigation culminating last week in the arrests of 19 juveniles and adults.
This type of deep undercover work at San Diego County high schools is rare but was popular in the 1980s and early 1990s as a way to stem growing drug abuse among teens.
The method resurfaced as a possibility following a rash of drug- and alcohol-induced teen deaths in the North County.
Dubbed "Operation A Team," the recent undercover effort was as much about educating law enforcement, schools, parents and teens as it was about getting drugs off the street. And Deputies A-1, A-2 and A-3 were the eyes and ears.
The Sheriff's Department is keeping their identities secret to protect ongoing investigations, but one of the deputies was allowed to give a telephone interview to reporters.
Getting ready for school
For many, the thought of going back to high school is the stuff of recurring nightmares.
Deputy A-2 is fortunate she never had those dreams as an adult. But that didn't cut the anxiety about walking a new set of hallways.
To prepare, she and the two other deputies spent two months on the job with the sheriff's narcotics unit, learning the art of the undercover drug buy.
"It was nerve-racking at first, but after a few times I started to get comfortable with it," she told U-T San Diego.
Next, she had to work on her image. She paired current teen styles from Forever 21 with a Bob Marley T-shirt to show she was friendly to the drug culture. She wore no makeup.
"She already looks very, very young," said sheriff's Lt. Hank Turner of the Narcotics Task Force. "It wasn't a lot of effort."
She spent hours on Facebook and the Internet brushing up on pop culture and picking up new lingo.
When it was time to start school, no one at the campus was told of her undercover role — not even her fellow sheriff's deputy who works as a school resource officer there. Her family was also kept in the dark. The school district superintendent was the only one in the loop.
Her first job on campus was to make connections.
"It's hard to get into a specific type of group, with the way they dress and you have to have common hobbies with them and talk about Justin Bieber and what not," she said.


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How did we determine our absolute favorite Oregon beers? We chatted up brewers, bartenders, and beer geeks of all stripes. We studied who won awards. And then we made some decisions: We wanted an even mix of Portland-area brews and others from around the state. We didn't allow the region's most prevalent beer style—the India pale ale, or IPA—to dominate. We eliminated most seasonal beers and hard-to-find brewer one-offs. And we made it a bottom-line demand that all the final pours be available by tap or bottle here in Portland. (OK, we made two exceptions well worth a drive to sample.) But from the 100 or so beers on our ultimate short list, we made the final cut solely with our taste buds—no ifs, ands, or buts.
We invite you—no, we encourage you—to disagree. Argue with us. Tell us about beers we missed. Just do it nicely, and do it on our website: portlandmonthlymag.com/beer-vote. What better way to celebrate Beervana than to refine our tastes together?


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Featured Blogger
Actually, it's not even a World Title. Not even a little bit. Why? I know I keep harping on this, but it's only because they keep doing it: RUN-IN AT THE PPV TITLE MATCH AGAIN, GOD DAMN IT ALL!! I've been harping on this for awhile so I just decided to compile some notes on the PPV title matches and a couple of notable title changes on IMPACT!!! This does include a No Surrender *spoiler*.
OK guys, I'ma generally try and keep all these WTFs short, sweet, and nasty. This one, however, is gonna be a more meaty post because there's some shit going on here that disturbs me.
Here's the nutshell: 2 weeks ago Kenny Anderson gets beat down by Immortal. IMPACT this Thursday we're shown these little shots of combat boots walking throughout the show. Then in the Immortal match here
I used to think that the Streak should never be broken. It's that one untouchable legacy in the WWE today... or at least it was.
CM Punk is poised for a push of epic proportions. This current angle is one of the best things that I've ever seen on a TV screen and clearly a lot of people agree. They can't even keep his merchandise in stock. If they carry out this angle properly, CM Punk
I think so. This is kind of a reach, but whatever. I'm high and it's fun to think about this stuff.
If the WWE can make some sort of deal with one of the companies over there it would be a huge deal. I don't know what they'd want to get out of it as far as straight up money from the events and TV and PPV and whatever. What I do know is that they have a lot to gain as far as legitimacy,
Sup y'all. Third blog today. That's what happens when you drink wine and use Sheiky Baby's "medicine."
I think this idea of a Cena heel turn is well-meaning but not a good business idea. What is it going to accomplish? Here are the typical reasons why people go heel:
1) For some reason they're not quite over as a face. they need to get vicious and beat the living hell


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This product is currently sold out.
You can obtain status and/or reserve this item by contacting us. We can also be reached by calling toll free 1-866-326-9377 (Dialing from outside the US +01 314 772 3566) between 10AM and 6PM CST (-6 GMT).
Calvin Klein's Pro-Stretch line is a collection of athletic men's underwear created to remain comfortable and supportive through all day wear or during strenuous activities. Made from ultra soft and comfortable stretch cotton the Calvin Klein Pro-Stretch collection is lightweight, breathable, moisture wicking, flexible, and quick drying. The CoolMax® waistband adds another level of comfort by keeping your skin cool and dry. An iconic Red Calvin Klein logo waistband adds stylish details to a functional and athletic collection of men's underwear.
The Trunk from the Calvin Klein Pro-Stretch collection features a classic trunk silhouette with a contour pouch for comfort and support. Shorter cut leg openings allow for unobstructed movement and added comfort during athletic activities or during all day wear.
92% Cotton, 8% Elastane.
Machine wash warm, do not bleach. Tumble dry low, do not iron. Do not dry clean. Wash dark colors separately.
|28-30 in 71-76 cm
|32-34 in 81-86 cm
|36-38 in 91-97 cm
|Extra Large
|40-42 in 102-107 cm


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SKU:014.226 | Red Apple LEATHER
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This 10" Laptop Bag is beautifully constructed to protect your small laptop and provide years of enjoyment. The interior is lined with neoprene and additional padding providing ample security for your computer. On the exterior you will find a slip pocket on back and gusseted pocket with zipper on front. This 10" Laptop Bag is very slim allowing you to carry your essentials including our Leather USB Holder (sold separately). Most Small Notebook Computer Bags can be personalized with your initials to add a personal touch. If the Small Leather Laptop Case is available for personalization an "M" icon will display on the item detail page.
Casual yet distinctive, our Timeless collection is one of our favorites. This leather boasts a polished finish and a soft hand feel, making it a great choice for any leather connoisseur. And with the variety of colors it comes in, it's easy to find a shade that appeals to you or matches with your other accessories. As the name implies, our Timeless collection will hold up through years of use while aging gracefully every step of the way.
Please note: textures in this collection range from light grain to a lightly pebbled grain depending on which part of the hide it's from.
Well made, attractive product. Is just what I was looking for and you can't beat the presentation for a gift. Arrives quickly too!
Great quality. I purchased to carry my iPad in. Very happy with it.
I sent as a gift. The recipient e-mailed me that it is beautiful. It arrived in tissue paper in a protective soft bag There was no invoice. In other words, it was also packaged beautifully. She was thrilled.
Great product. Quality is evident wherever you look. Couldn't be more pleased. Perfect for the iPad.
i like it my only wish that it was a litte bit large other then that it ok
Great product. This is a gift for my wife's iPad and it fits jut right.
This is perfect....just what I needed to carry my i-pad and other things that usually go into a purse! The red leather is beautiful.
Due to the size of this item, it is not available for traditional gift packaging. However, it will arrive in a pouch or drawstring bag packaged in a logo kraft box.


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Moderators: Tonyblack, Jason, Toothy
Tonyblack wrote:It''ll be a shame to see you go. We were all young once and maybe said and did some things we regret, but that's what life is all about - making mistakes and learning by them. Nobody is perfect and nobody (despite what they might think) can give you all the answers. You have to go through life picking and choosing the things that work for you.
Best of luck for your future and if you ever change your mind, I'm sure you'll be welcome back.
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Jameson Annex
Physical Address:
Inmate Mailing Address:
Inmates are allowed to receive letters and photos (no polaroids, or nude photos). Your complete name and address must be written legibly in the return address area of the envelope. When sending correspondence always include the inmates name and Identification number as the mailing address above shows, if you know the housing unit please list that as well. Do not mark the envelope or letter in any way. No stamps, pens or pencils, small trinkets, or jewelry or other items should ever be mailed with the correspondence. Staples, paperclips, lipstick, perfume, crayon art, stickers, drawings or markings of any kind will result in the correspondence being returned. Inmates may also receive New paperback books, magazines, newspapers or other printed matter mailed directly from Amazon.com (Be sure to include the inmate name and ID number and send to the inmate mailing address above, for more information read the policy on inmate mail).
Family members and friends can send money to an inmate by means of United States Postal Money Order. Include the inmates name and ID number on the money order and send to the inmate at the inmate mailing address provided above. For more information about inmate funds read the departments policy here.
The South Dakota department of correction encourages friends and family members of inmates who demonstrate a good influence to communicate and visit with an inmate. This can help in the rehabilitation process, and eventually with his or her reintegration back into society. Below are important things you should know if you are planning on visiting an inmate incarcerated in the South Dakota Department of Corrections.
You must be on the inmate's approved visitation list prior to visiting.
Click here to download a visitors application.
Click here to read information about visiting.
Visiting Hours are as follows:
Contact the institution at the telephone number provided above, or if you know the visiting hours leave a comment below.
How to do an inmate search in South Dakota
Want to find information about an inmate incarcerated in South Dakota? Access the South Dakota inmate database of offenders here.


text:
The following is an archive of a post made to our
'vox mailing list'
by one of its subscribers.
road trip to arcata?
begin nbs <firstname.lastname@example.com>
> On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 11:47:49PM -0800, Ryan wrote:
> > Sounds like a LERT type thing, but over the phone.
> Unless they're totally AGAINST having someone come out to their place,
> I honestly think it makes more sense to do this live, rather than over
> the phone. Trying to describe what's on the screen, or trying to figure
> out what is or isn't without being able to see it, can be very frustrating.
> -bill!
> _______________________________________________
> vox mailing list
> email@example.com
> http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox
vox mailing list
Hosting provided by:
Sunset Systems
Sunset Systems offers preconfigured Linux
systems, remote system administration and
custom software development.
LUGOD: Linux Users' Group of Davis
PO Box 2082, Davis, CA 95617
Contact Us
LUGOD is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization
based in Davis, California
and serving the Sacramento area.
"Linux" is a trademark of Linus Torvalds.


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We're sorry, the AutohausAZ.com page you are looking for was not found. It may
have moved or the URL in your browser address line may be incorrect. Your visit
is important to us - the below suggestions should help you find the page you
are seeking:
1. Check the URL entered in your Web browser's address line to make
sure it's correct.
2. Try accessing the page you are seeking directly from the
Autohaus AZ Home Pagezdvbuywqdtduztvccezdvbu, from the
Autohaus AZ Site Map or from the menu at the top.
If you reached this page via a stored bookmark/favorite link on your computer,
please be sure to correct your bookmark to avoid problems on future visits. If
you continue to have problems accessing this page, please


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Hey, i was wounder if there is a possibility of see you guys here in Michigan i missed you guys at mayhem last year had ticket and everything but my car broke down and nobody would give me a ride and ya i just really wanna see you guys live!!!
Replies to This Posting
Re: Michigan
KoRn will be close to MI July 16 in Oshkosh, WI also JD will be in Chicago on the 21. It's not MI but it's close. I'm from Niles, what part are you from? If I knew ya, I would've given you a ride but it would of costed your ticket. hehehe.
"Times are lookin grim these days, holding onto everything, it's hard to draw the line."
Re: Michigan
FYI, this should probably be in the section of the forum labeled Tours.
"Death is but a door. Time is but a window. I'll be back"


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Marketplace Activity
Community Inventory Summary
Users who own this wine
Market Pricing
Average Retail:
No Data Available
No Data Available
Avg Auction:
(of 11 listings - 48 months ) $74.82 Details
(of 11 listings - 48 months ) $74.82 Details
2007 Pichon Baron Bordeaux Blend - France - Bordeaux - Pauillac - Red - Second Growth
France - Bordeaux - Pauillac
Bordeaux Blend - Second Growth
Producer Notes
Chateau Pichon Baron is a Second Growth classified Bordeaux estate located in the Pauillac appellation. In addition to producing a grand vin, Pichon Baron makes a second wine, Les Tourelles de Longueville.
ScoreJR ...
Drink Dates


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rko, edge, jericho, taker, sorry to say cena, hhh, and the future looks bright with miz,sheamus, drew m, and morrison
It's Not Arrogance, It's Destiny!
"Stand Back, there's a Hurricane coming through!"
"Woo Woo Woo, you know it!"
"If you're not down with that, then we've got just two words for ya ... SUCK IT!"
"RAW is JERICHO!"
"We lie, we cheat, we steal"


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Paperwork and Payment
If you are thinking about getting your first tattoo, but are unfamiliar with the process, the thought might meet you with anticipation. Fear of the unknown can sometimes hold us back from doing things we really want to do. You might be concerned that it will hurt too much. You might be worried that you wouldn't know if the artist was doing something wrong.
The best thing you can do is educate yourself on the process of the tattoo application, and that way you will be prepared and know what to expect when you sit in the artist's chair. So, how is a tattoo applied to the skin? From start to finish, this article will tell you exactly how the human skin is transformed into a beautiful work of art.
Please keep in mind that the following outline describes the most favorable situation for getting a tattoo. There will always be differences between one artist and the next, but any major deviance from these guidelines could indicate a problem.
Once you have decided on your tattoo design and your artist, you will be required to show valid identification for proof of age. You may also be asked for your address and phone number, so your artist can contact you in the future if need be. In most studios, payment must be made before services are rendered. It is up to each studio to decide which methods of payment they accept. Whatever method you pay with, make sure they give you a receipt.
Related posts:
- Tattoo 101 – Planning, Getting and Caring for a Tattoo
- Tattoo Aftercare – How to Take Care of Your New Tattoo
- Tattoo Equipment That Cannot Be Reused
- Why Many Tattoo Artists Refuse to Tattoo Hands, Feet ,and Faces
- Advice to Tattoo Removal Patients
- Tattoo Aftercare Contradictions – Product and Procedure
- Complete Guide to Getting a Tattoo For Beginners
- Which Hurts More – Outlining or Shading?
- Biohazard Disposal – Removal of Tattoo Waste
- Shaving Over a New Tattoo


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From 101 Take exit 358 (10th Street) West to first left (Chestnut). Take Chestnut street south 500 yards past the Dodge dealer. Store is on the left between Cresco Equipment rental and Bay area RV.
Our highly-trained staff are professionals in trailer sales, repairs, and customizations. We invite you to visit a TrailersPlus store today for all your trailer and accessory needs.
Find a trailer that fits your needs or contact us to customize an Interstate trailer.


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Nicestore Zencart Template
It has been tested with v1.3.9, v1.5.0, v1.5.1 and found to be working perfectly with them.
Nicestore is designed with keeping the simplicity in mind. Its so plain and simple that it makes your website unique in its own way. All Zencart standards are kept intact so you can upgrade easily in future and can also enjoy all core features of zencart.
Because if its clean and content focused design, This zencart theme is suitable for almost All kind of shops including but not limited to cloths, jewellery, cosmetics, beauty productcs, furniture, home decore items, foods, electronics and other similar nature of business.
This is really great theme, I've used 100's of Zen Cart themes over the years and this is without doubt the best one yet.
The documentation you have supplied with the theme is excellent and so easy for anyone to understand.
Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing what other themes you design and add to Themeforest in future.
Hylton, on item Nicestore – zencart
I would totally recommend this theme just because the author would help me as much as I need to get my website done the way I like it.
He had help me so much to adjust, alternate, and even recommend me what to do with other website related stuff.
Thank you so much for your hard work Lily
Lilyscupcakery, on item Justcakes – html
Nicestore Zencart Template Benefits
- Beautiful Design ( Browse the demo website to know more ! )
- No core files hacking. (it just comes with includes folder. No database or core files hacking required. Upgrade/install third party modules/change theme in future without any mess)
- Isotope implementation.
- Modern techniques for quicker loading. (headjs usages)
- Well documentated code(style file and the code that I have written)
- Clear documentation and installation guide. (Videos coming soon.)
- Well Supported
- jQuery enhanced.
- Easy to browse and focused on converting visitors to buyers instead of bloating decoration stuff.
- Template will be regularly updated, as is in active development.
- Template is very well supported, if you have any question, feel free to contact using profile page form.
1) The images used in demo were bought by us and are not included in the purchase.
2) I have used 'kameron', 'bitter', 'enriqueta" from Fontsquirrel.com
3) Icons used were either made by me or downloaded from icon directories with "Allowed for commercial use (no link required)" license.


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Click here to view an animated version of this procedure.
The tonsils are glands in the back of the throat. A tonsillectomy is the surgical removal of the tonsils.
Reasons for Procedure
Tonsillectomy is most often done when other nonsurgical treatments have not worked for:
- Chronic or recurrent tonsil infections—Tonsillectomy may reduce the number, but will not completely eliminate these infections.
- Peritonsillar abscess—pocket of infection spreading outside the tonsil
- Enlarged tonsils causing obstruction of the throat
Possible Complications
Problems from the procedure are rare, but all procedures have some risk. Your doctor will review potential problems, like:
- Bleeding
- Temporary breathing problems
- Adverse reaction to anesthesia
- Vomiting and dehydration
- Infection
Factors that may increase the risk of complications include:
- Obesity
- Smoking
- Poor nutrition
- Chronic illness
- Sickle cell anemia
- Bleeding disorders
- Recent or current steroid use
- Diabetes
- Taking anticoagulants or aspirin products
- Dehydration
Be sure to discuss these risks with your doctor before your tonsillectomy.
What to Expect
Prior to Procedure
Your doctor may:
- Do a physical exam of the tonsils, throat, neck, and possibly other parts of the body
- Order blood tests and a urine test
- Review your medical history and current medications
Leading up to your procedure:
- Talk to your doctor about your current medications. Certain medications may need to be stopped before the procedure.
- The night before, eat a light meal. Do not eat or drink anything after midnight.
General anesthesia is most commonly used. You will be asleep for the procedure. If necessary, the surgery can also be done with sedation and local anesthesia.
Description of the Procedure
The anesthesia will be given through an IV or by a mask. The doctor will grasp each tonsil with a special tool. The tonsils will then be cut away from the surrounding tissues and removed. The tonsils may be cut out with a scalpel or hot knife. An electrical current or clamps and ties will be used to stop bleeding at the site.
How Long Will It Take?
About 20-60 minutes
Will It Hurt?
Anesthesia will prevent pain during surgery. Pain and discomfort after the procedure can be managed with medications.
Average Hospital Stay
This procedure is most often done in a hospital setting. It may be possible to leave the hospital on the day of the procedure. Some patients may need to stay in the hospital for up to two days. Talk to your doctor about what is right for you.
Post-procedure Care
- You will be monitored for any negative reactions to anesthesia or other complications.
- After you are fully awake, alert, and stable, you may be able to leave. Arrange for a ride home from the hospital.
When you return home, take the following steps to help ensure a smooth recovery:
- Take medications that are prescribed as directed.
- Avoid talking, coughing, and singing for one week.
- Drink plenty of fluids.
- Avoid spicy, acidic, and hard-to-digest foods.
- Eat soft foods, such as gelatin and pudding, for 3-4 days after surgery. Gradually return to a normal diet.
- Avoid swallowing hard items such as crackers and hard cookies. They may injure the back of your throat.
Call Your Doctor
After you leave the hospital, contact your doctor if any of the following occur:
- Signs of infection, including fever and chills
- Redness, swelling, increasing pain, excessive bleeding, or discharge from the site where the tonsils were removed
- Nausea and/or vomiting that you cannot control with the medications you were given after surgery, or which last for more than two days after discharge from the hospital
- Pain that you cannot control with the medications you have been given, especially if it prevents you from drinking fluids
- Cough, shortness of breath, or chest pain
- Spitting or vomiting blood
- New, unexplained symptoms
In case of an emergency, call for medical help right away.
Revision Information
- Reviewer: Marcin Chwistek, MD; Michael Woods, MD
- Review Date: 07/2013 -
- Update Date: 05/11/2013 -


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- Mitch SMith
- Katoomba
- Australia
This conversation is closed.
Climate: advancing in the war of the memes
In our new world of productive abstraction and "higher IQ" we have a task never before possible:
The numbers are in - our climate is on a path to present more change than humans can adapt to.
The technology and the need are all present to avoid this outcome.
The only impediment now is a war of memes - truth against fiction.
The battle for political will.
My idea is to arm ourselves with the memic weaponry being utilised by the untruthful against us (the truthful).
Please help me construct memic missiles to turn the tide.
Here is my first salvo:
There are no climate deniers any more - only time-wasters.
This missile is deployed against denialists by simply saying "oh - you are a time waster?" and refraining from using the word "denier"
It explodes by popping the dignity of denial hidden under a false veil of prudence. Then the capsule of "denialism" ceases to become a flag under which to rally.
Can you suggest some more potential memic munitions?
We will need as many as we can get.
"Make no mistake" this is a "war on ignorance"
And, as the numbers show, the stakes are high.
Let us make sure that this war does not produce its opposite like "the war on terror" and "the war on drugs".
Let us actually fight to win. Wouldn't that be a refreshing change!
Let the army of the honest prevail.
Unleash the memes of truth!
etc ... etc ... ad infinitum
(Time-wasters would be advised not to participate here - you will be used for target practice)
Closing Statement from Mitch SMith
2 years ago, I got in touch with my brother to warn him about the impending personal challenges that we will have to face as energy goes into the chaotic weather system that we all live in. AKA climate change.
My brother said I was an idiot - that his church assures him that this is a political piece of rubbish that we can safely ignore.
I was shocked. I am his brother, and he prefers his church.
I tried to let him know, that from my understanding of chaos math, that when this happens, you will not see trends - you will see a massive increase in the dynamics you face .. for instance, el-nino will start getting larger an start becoming more sudden.
Averages will look the same, but in-between, things will get more "bangy".
I was wrong - averages show clear temperature trends - but I was right - listen to the on-the-ground experiences. The winds are becoming more dynamically gusty .. the temperatures are plunging from one extreme to the next, rainfall bangs between drought and flood overnight.
This is climate change.
My brother agrees with me now - because his church recently told him so. So I took the opportunity to let him watch the methane question .. and put him on the list of people to leave behind - we cannot afford time wasters - there is not room left for love.
I am going off grid.
Climate change manifests through our institutions - they are betraying us like falling dominos.
Motherhood, healthcare, education, money, government, markets, technology - all of these no longer work.
They have all been blown flat - not by average forces .. but by explosive "gusts" of change.
Abandon adaptation - recover adaptability.
Turn - face, enjoy - do not look back - let the time wasters burn..
Scott Bell
Oct 1 2013: Mitch. I dig your enthusiasm. Relax. Everything is flowing along nicely according to the Natural Plan......of which we are a part of. Eventually, the Petri Dish is fouled....balance will always eventually be restored. Humans may have the technology. They lack sufficient awareness of WHO the hell they are. All will be restored to balance. Go with the flow.
- +2
Oct 1 2013: Absolutely!
so .. don't just talk about the flow - dive in and enjoy it!
This is the culmination of a lifetime's work for me.
Right now, I'm in - and let me tell you - the water's fine!
There is no such thing as bad-company :)
Lawren Jones
Sep 30 2013: Well, since you don't want to have an intelligent debate with an ignorant time-waster like myself, I'll just move on and let your mutual agreement conversation carry forth.
- +2
Sep 30 2013: self-deleted ...
Oct 1 2013: Hi Lejan,
You see - he just wasted your time.
This thread is not intended to feed the trolls - it is here to exterminate them.
This is a memic weapons factory.
I would have simply flagged his post for deletion - but I'll leave it here as exhibit A.
Notice how the missile works?
you can see the process of self-extermination in operation.
Oct 1 2013: I know, I know Mitch, and you are more than right in what you are saying. Its just that hope dies last and mine isn't dead yet ... :o)
But I will remains silent from now on, not to interfere any further with the intention of your 'land-mimes' ... :o)Oct 1 2013: memic bomb-making is fun.
And it's more than fun, it's critical.
Right now, outside my window, the winds are hitting stronger and more frequently than ever before.
How do I know this?
Well - apart from the obvious meteorological stats:
I know it because my garbage bin has been blown-over every week for the last 6 weeks - the bins were designed to be stable in "normal" wind conditions - that normal is now statistically exceeded by many standard deviations.
This is bad news for my region - fires are a great danger - and it has been 3 years since the fire-danger rating system was expanded to include "catastrophic fire risk"
If a fire erupts in front of the current wind - nothing will stop it.
Today, the winds have caused a power blackout - these blackouts are now becoming statistically significant.
We are presented with a lot of challenge right now - the process has begun .. inconvenience is escalating into huge cost-burdens.
Things are going to be bad - we no longer have the luxury of time-wasters.
My meme war is designed to produce social exiles - they can no longer participate in our community while they are not contributing to it.
The climate debate is no longer a quaint entertainment - it's do or die..
"There are no climate-deniers - only surplus-clowns."
Can you think of another? They have to be snappy and induce a choice between self-exile, public humiliation, or join the effort for our survival.
Oct 1 2013: 'Surplus-clowns' certainly is hart to top for a non English native, and if it wasn't that serious worth a good long laugh.
'Brake block terrorists' or 'pro-active misanthropes' what comes to my mind may either be misleading, as the term 'terrorists' has become an all-purpose description nowadays, or the term 'misanthrope' may not be understandable by those who are acting pro-active as such.
'Voluntary oil lobbyists' or 'unpaid oil lobbyists' may get intellectually received more likely by less sophisticated antennas, as it should be recognizable to those who put themselves into social exile.
'Environmental capitalists' may work as well, even though I am afraid, that the term 'capitalist' does not carry enough if any negative notation to those which are going to define themselves as such.
Effective framing is an art-form and usually dominated by linguists, psychologists and advertising specialists of which in any discipline my knowledge is certainly limited.
'Doomsday's little helpers' may get a message across towards some religious people, but as this day is more expected than feared, at least, should be less feared by those who listened, this may be misleading as well for some. It is also to 'cute' and certainly loaded with more positive associations.
'Time wasters' sounds good to me, as it is self-explanatory in the given context and thats what good framing is about.Oct 2 2013: Hi Mitch,
I just looked up the change in wind speeds in your area on wolframalpha, and the available data plotted over the period starting in 1990 till today is as frightening as you said:
Staring around 2006 and within almost one year, the wind-speed just doubled and stayed this way ever since! Thats a dramatical change!
So I compared this to my area in Germany, yet just by eye, there is no visible change or tendency detectable within the same time period:
I noticed, that in average, its a bit more windy at my place, so you might be interested in the design of standard German trash bins, used for trash which is not going into recycling:
They come in sizes of 120 and 240 liters (cubic decimeter) and the smaller one, shown in the picture, has an 'empty weight' of 9.6 kg.
So far I haven't seen any empty trash bins tumbling over by wind, but I will let you know, when this is going to happen.Oct 1 2013: Hi Lejan,
Damn .. we have generated a lot of value between us huh?
I love the "Doomsday's little helpers" .. that's a nice missile!
You know, I only learned yesterday "what is the difference between a meme and an organism?"
The answer is "potentiation"
A meme has no codon. But it creates a potential for a codon to form.
So a meme is a "non-codonic life-potentiator".
Let the pure theorists go off and understand that .. seems like a waste of time to me - we just intuit this stuff. SO we always have the "inside-straight" and will win over time.
I have to confess - I developed the "time-waster" meme a long time ago - it was a matter of timing to get it inserted.
There was a 50/50 chance that the TED moderators would deny this conversation - it was risky for them .. but it fits with the TED mission .. so more like 55/45 gamble .. a commitment but .. wow - we are ON! All blessings on the TED moderators and the TED ethic - we (at least) have not been wasting our time here!
I find that almost infinitely encouraging .. I suspected as much, but you don't know until you go.
And I want EVERYONE to go .. sitting alone .. stopped and en-caged .. that sucks .. and who wants us to be stopped and trapped?
Time-wasters - while we are nailed-down they just reach in the cage, steal our eggs, eat our children and sheer-off our wool.
That's all over now.
This phase change is done - we will all participate - by now, there is no other choice - I look forward to the results :)
And if I know anything about this world - what I am doing now is being repeated in about 1000 other places - the nature of "antennae people" .. the signal is unmistakeable.
It is not us - but what flows through us that makes the difference.
As Jesus and John the Babtist said: "make straight the way"
In other words - "stop wasting time."
Oct 1 2013: I completely lost the sensitivity of my antenna if there is a significant number of people out there who will be able to kick-start this new era, especially as my prediction of the outcome of the recent election in Germany has become true, which means, business as usual for the next four years...
Even TED does not reflect any significant shift in perception as I would expect to find for an upcoming change of that magnitude. Your optimism is without doubt helping to revive the remaining bits of my hope, but sometimes it really takes effort to get even the most obvious messages across, and this at it seems at times, over and over again.
I have never been good in manipulating people, as I prefer a straight conversation or argument based on facts, which, by their nature should be enough for the 'convincing' part while I remain the messenger. I know by multiple experience, that this only works with open minded and problem solving individuals, yet fails repeatedly against political agendas or intentions rooted in plain protectionism.
On memes, I have to trust in your judgement, if they are going to work and how effective they are, as I am lacking their feedback loop, if they have any, and to associate or trace their cause to effects in case they produce any.
I do sense a lot of value in between us, as it seems that part of our experiences and views resonate on compatible frequencies. Yet I am only assured of what it means to me and have not the slightest clue, what it may mean to others, as if there are any, they choose to remain silent about it. Thats ok, yet cut's of my feedback-loop.
I have hoped for the occupy movement to maintain their momentum, yet its gets harder and harder to hear and join their voices. The couch-potatoes haven't been moved yet, as the level of discomfort hasn't been strong enough to penetrate their coping mechanisms. At least in Germany, this is the case, and only time will show if there is more to expect. But time is part of the problem.Oct 1 2013: The change occurs long before the result is observed.
As an example:
Many years ago, I observed "have a nice day".
It was being used as an honorific of parting .. a blessing if you like.
But I did not like it - it seemed shallow and contained no blessing whatsoever beyond releasing the speaker from the obligation of a real sense of empathy.
So I decided to do something about it.
I started replying to the "have a nice day" with "All the best".
The wish for my fellow to encounter the best that life can give was genuine - and it conveyed my commitment to my empathy for my fellow in parting. You actually cannot say such a thing without feeling it.
Within a few months, no one in my town was saying "have a nice day".
Within a year no one in my country was saying "have a nice day"
Within 4 years, the fake blessing was completely wiped from the Earth.
These days, it is only uttered as a sarcasm or a curse.
IT was replaced by my "all the best" and it was replaced by other honorifics like "god bless" and "take care" - others were doing just as I was - and it worked.
That took 4 years for a global result pre-internet..
This one will take less.
Those who have committed to the Earth's destruction in policy decision, and those who have vested interests in preventing this phase change will all be doing desparate flip-flops and trying to claim the high ground as if it was their idea all along.
All that stuff doesn't matter - they are already exiled and will soon find the need to earn their way back into community.
Attribution is not required - only results.
Those here have the advantage of knowing what to look for.
And that seems like a lot of fun - and some wisdom to tell our children.
It's a crystal seed. Once started - cannot stop. Takes time.
So you see,
It doesn't matter how many people actually pick it up here - if they repeat the time-waster meme, it will propagate exponentially. The crystal medium is ripe.
If my attempt fails, my fellows will succeed.
Oct 1 2013: Could you please also observe the phrases 'How do you do' and 'How is it going' if they are used instead of saying 'hello' or 'hi'. Both of them are bare of any real empathy while used in this context, which then is inflationary while used in another or meant literally. I never got used to this custom in the US and the UK and it feels as shallow as you described.
But your example is very interesting. May I ask if the change in custom has changed its reals sense of empathy as well? Has this deepened society for a better, or has it 'just' been an exchange of phrases?
I noticed quite a view changes within my native language and its frequency as well as its velocity of propagation has kept pace with the overall acceleration of live in my country and during my lifetime. I don't find and increase in depth of meaning, on the contrary, some words have even lost in value of their original meaning. 'Friends' or 'Freunde', as it is called in German, is one of this devaluated words and lost its original meaning faster than ever since the introduction of facebook. As languages aren't static, there is no problem in that, the problem is, that no alternative word has been created to preserve the original meaning.
But what strikes me most is that younger generations seem to have lost their intuitive sense for rebellion against the older ones within their settled establishment. For years there are no provocative trends anymore and it seems as most of the youngsters have become one indistinguishable smartphone / internet / facebook blob. There are no claims for any change whatsoever. This is what I am concerned about and I can only hope of not being 'up to date' enough to know where to look at nowadays.
Crystals stop growing the moment they've consumed the consumable and if more than one crystal spawned within one 'substance', they'll stop at boundaries. If this applies for memes as well, what I don't know, but assume, then the time of initiation may be of high importance.Oct 1 2013: Several theories have been formed in the past about 'synchronization of ideas', as throughout the history of our species, there seems to be evidence of uncoordinated synchronic development stages, as if the 'time was just ripe' to give birth to several but unconnected minds across the globe of within large areas of separate nations.
The creation of the periodic table of elements is one example of many where ideas hopped in existence at the the same time but different places.
Rupert Shaldrake, a British biologist created a theory about this matter, which he called the 'morphic field' yet never got respected by his peers due to a lack of sufficient evidence.
As Shaldrake assumed these 'morphic field' to be also effective in societies and not only within organic cells, he substituted chance by this concept of 'synchronization of ideas'.
If he was right, memes would likely to be able to 'communicate' in this 'morphic field' as their essence is based on the same building blocks as those of ideas.
To me and regardless of this theory, the starting point of crystallization of a meme is of high importance, as it has to compete with other memes about a scarce resource out of which it is only able to crystallize. Once this resource got transformed by a meme, it takes a lot of energy to melt this crystal structure for it to recrystallize in a different meme.
In solid-state physics phase changes within solid structures are not impossible, yet need in any case external energy for it to happen quickly and coordinated, whereas diffusion processes could be seen as usual yet mainly local fluctuations of meme-changes.
For climate change, the main meme which was to overcome short-term is actually one of the most powerful and widespread we have today, and which is called capitalism.
The essence of capitalism doesn't care for environmental issues, as it is not in its 'genes' and time-frame and couldn't care less about it.Oct 1 2013: The seeds you are spawning for 'your' memes got to face Goliath globally to be of any use to save the climate within the remaining time-frame. And as most of the substance has already been crystallized by the 'American dream' it will be very difficult to melt it away at places, where capitalism just enters its heydays. Ironically, the spawning seed, the origin of that meme is, as you rightly say, just about to face its third-world country stage but it remains to be seen if this is weakening the crystal fabric deep enough for other memes to take over.
Wounded predators are known to be highly dangerous and unpredictable in their next reactions, and if it is able to arise anew but as a Phoenix or if it goes wild in despair, remains to be seen. Regarding timing it seems questionable to me for climate saving memes to take over this weather hardened, wounded giant. And even if it would work on this giant, the moment it does, it would have lost its global dominance and influence already at that point, as beforehand, the crystal structure woudn't yield for any other meme to take over. But on this I am open for surprises and would like to be proven wrong.
But then there are also the new Goliath which just awoken and their promised fresh carrots are still sparkling bright for all those chasing memes who are hunting them. Changing those with carrots who do not sparkle anything alike, and to regrow those crystals, may be more difficult as to deal with the falling Goliath.
Either way, good memes are facing a tremendous challange ahead of them and they got to go deep fast for them to make a difference right on time, as otherwise, they may just ease the beginning of the decay to be exchanged by more testosterone oriented ones soon after...
But as I said, hope dies last, so lets get our memes spread ...Oct 1 2013: The boundary in language-based memetics is the language itself.
To cross language barriers, the meme has to be translated creatively .. and sometimes that is not possible .. there are cadence rules .. rhythms and rhymes that are part of the message "shape".
Best to look at basic cellular-autonomata to understand how this works. As McLuhan said: "the medium is the massage" - I'm not sure how this translated in the German edition - the deliberate misspelling of "message" has a specific effect in English. ;)
However, the meaning of time-wasting is probably easy to translate in any language.
I insert it into the "sociosphere" now simply because the state of the sociosphere is primed and ready for it to do its work. I didn't do that priming - all I am doing is the tiny little push to get the seed crystal started in the place made for it. All the heavy-lifting has been done by the scientists.
If I am lucky, my own bit of heavy lifting will ensure that the resulting crystal-culture is prepared for the deeper objectives hidden in the "time-wasting" seed. I have 3 or 4 more jobs for that little tree ;)
Fruit for the next season perhaps. It's not just climate change - it's the cause of it as well.
With the Occupy Wall Street movement - that has done its work, there's no need to save it.
Chris Hedges is doing the comms work leading on from that, but I note that he is fatigued and resting right now.
Chomsky is getting really old .. that's sad. But he's still doing some lifting.
Wolff and Harvey are flat-out getting the "global south" prepared .
And in the mean time, USA is beginning to feel what it's like to be a third-world country - the seigniorage that once allowed USA to use the rest of the world to off-load liabilities is nearly ended.
I am not sure who is doing the work in China, but all reports seem to indicate they have already jettisoned their time-wasters and are now going through a new cycle of exploitative resurgence - which will last until the collapse of USA
Oct 2 2013: In German schools we are taught in English class, that in 20 out if 10 cases the sentence structure in German can not be transferred 'one by one' into the English language. The ratio is that bad, if not worse... and because no one is listening to teachers anyway, Germans tend to have this funny word orders while speaking or writing in English.
But the meme you created is different!
'All the best' is one of this very rare exceptions in which almost all words align in their order in both languages.
'All the best' translates into 'Alles Gute' by just dropping the 'the'. Beautiful! :o)
The context in which 'Alles Gute' is used within my native language is exactly the same your meme now occupies in yours. Its been around since I can remember and is still in use today. It is of versatile use and applicable for close friends as well as for people we don't know that well. And it is appropriate on official occasions as well.
Generation of students will like you for your meme, Mitch, even in foreign countries... :o)Oct 1 2013: You need to look at this - it's extremely important for understanding the facebook/twitter "blob" thing
Chris Hedges covers the net porn problem in his latest book .. I can hardly believe how much PTSD a single man can withstand - he's been at all the horror-zones of humanity in the last 30 years ..
The Euro is already dead - I helped Greeks to organise alternative currencies 4 years ago - they were designed to destroy the Euro .. sorry about that - hadda be done. But the local currency principle will work just as well in Germany, so all is not lost - and it will work better in Germany because you already have the distributed power network well advanced. Merkel is a lot smarter than she shows.
My kid introduced me to 4chan a few years ago - don't despair about the kids. You just can't see it
I like the stuff that is done with flash-mobs .
Oct 1 2013: Mitch, the link you've shared opened the most excellent talk which I have heard for a long time!
Brilliant! Everything just falls naturally in its place. This is how it is. This is how its meant to be.
Thank you very much! Thank you very much indeed!
I got to sleep now and will answer you on my new 'tomorrow', which is slightly off the official time zone I am in at the moment ... the curse of being a night owl, I suppose ... ;o)Oct 1 2013: Could you or Lejan in a couple of sentences just define for me what the expression "facebook/twitter "blob"thing" means?Oct 1 2013: I'm aware of Sheldrake's work.
I write to him occasionally.
His work is right on the edge of physics, if not beyond, and I don't expect any great advances there soon - there seem to be a lot of incremental steps before the actual mechanism is revealed. Although his basic premise is sound and his experiments are rigorous.
I support his efforts.
In the memic sense, Once a crystal medium has been fully crystallised, then it becomes the medium for the next crystallization - one does not un-crystallise it.
The wounded animal will die - you only need to stand clear .. and not have a vested interest in its meat. One is content with wounding a predator - the objective is not to eat it, it's a matter of efficiency because there will be a new predator soon enough.
One needs not win - only fight.
David knew how to use his sling - he grew up with it.
The capitalism beast is already panicked and thrashing about in its death-throes.
What climbs out of its corpse might be better.
It will probably be better to begin with. Just as capitalism was better than Feudalism.
If I get any success influencing it to conform to tribal collective limits, it will do a lot better.
Time is not linear, nor is it cyclic - closer to say it's a spiral, but more likely to be chaotic .. something like the Lorenz strange attractor ..Oct 1 2013: @Fritzie:
"The facebook/twitter blob thing"
Is a parasitic medium that exploits the juvenile attachment deficit resulting from faulty communities which institutionally lack dense, inter-generational affiliative structures.
Unlike the other blobs: childcare, schools and jobs, the facebook/twitter blob is less regulated and results in far deeper peer-generated stressors - e.g trolls and griefers..,
Cultural impoverishment is also pandemic in the F/T blob e.g. degraded vocabulary, reduced affiliative capacity, generational deficit (to name just a few)..
All such blobs are directly harnessed by the corporate advantage dynamic which has almost completed the total destruction of densely affiliative communities worldwide.
Thankfully, these blobs are counter-balanced to some degree by specialist forums. TED being one example. However, all blobs hold in common the exploitation of affiliative deficit in the real-world communities of those who participate - that includes us - the process of social atomisation began before we were born, it is just more pronounced in the communities our children are born into.
(Sorry - that's more than one sentence - but the first sentence will do as a definition..
To say it in media-speak:
Blobs are the vast human landfills of the tribeless.
As I understand it, these landfills are now being drilled for meta-methane using a process loosely termed "crowd sourcing", but also known as "spying on the populace" or "systematic mass-violation of privacy")
Oct 1 2013: Thank you. Sometimes I may miss some of your meaning because I am not from Australia. The word "blob" didn't communicate to me. I am also not on Facebook or Twitter, so any slang or word code that emerges there will likely not be familiar to me.
I know these cultures are useful to understand, but to me the cost of wading in to make my own examination is too high, given the other things I do in my life.
Meanwhile it is worthwhile for me to wade into Coursera or edX to feel how those organizations work.
I understand the concept of affiliative deficit. Marketers do as well. I am sure you know Seth Godin's book Tribes. The point, as I understand it, which has inspired many online businesses and business strategies, is to tap into the human need to feel connected to similar people and to gather them as a customer cohort or to provide that as part of the customer experience. Loyalty or commitment to other customers then ties people more firmly to the product.Oct 1 2013: @ Fritzie,
Lejan just coined "blob" on-the-run ... I liked it and now it is a jargon that all 3 of us can now translate. I happen to like it because I enjoyed the original "the blob" movie.
They guy pokes the blob with a stick and holds it up as it oozes down the stick, then he turns the stick down - expecting it to drool off on the ground, but instead it still oozes up the stick towards his hand.
Blobs are like that .. like the tar-baby, they are sticky - and like the movie blob, they eat you.
I think I've gained a few insights on tribes that Seth Godin overlooked. I'll be using them to dismantle his damage. The purification of the totem being the centre-piece for that .. the elegance is that corporations won't be able to use it on their customers - it will be more apt for devolving corporations into worker-owned enterprises.
Oct 2 2013: In the context of group formation and information exchange within and between them, the property of viscosity of such blobs could be interesting for theoretical models. As a sub-group ore relative, 'blob' rimes beautifully with 'mob' and may well make its way into your tribe-research. And it comes under common license as well! :o)
Talking about license, I stumbled across an interesting link which may be interesting to your studies on tribes and memes:
GLEAMviz offers a free to use Simulator for the simulation of world-wide epidemics, which may could be tweaked (or hacked) to simulate the spreading of memes.
The simulation is based on three modules. The 'Epidemic Model', 'Mobility Data' and 'Population Data'.
If I am not mistaken, the 'Mobility Data' will be based on travel-routes of transportation of people. For memes this wouldn't be the only exchange ways, so additions could be added to integrate all other forms of information-spread as well. Telecommunication, media networks, the Internet, social media networks, TED, etc.
I haven't played around with this software yet, but if the infectiousness was a definable variable within the Epidemic Model, it could be used as 'acceptance level' for memes or as 'resistance level' against them.
Memes have been described to have gone 'viral', so I don't see any reason why principles of epidemiology or its methodology shouldn't work on them as well.
Well, besides rewriting and hacking some code, simulations are known for their difficulties in getting them right and to define proper boundary conditions, but as a former IT specialist, this should be a peace of cake for you and/or your network... :o)
The GLEAMviz Simulator comes in Windows, Mac OS and Linux, so plenty enough to choose from.
Now, that I think about it, I would actually be surprised if similar software wasn't already put to use on the dark side of the force. And they probably know by the second how long public awareness lasts ...Oct 2 2013: Hi Lejan,
Many thanks for the links - the Wolfram Alpha facility is fun to play with.
Have you seen Wolfram's TED talk?
Whenever I look at these seasonal graphs, I am always curious how they would sound if converted to a sound format. There is clear seasonal periodicity - but there are also hints of specific harmonics.
The human ear is far more sensitive to harmonic content than the other senses.
I suspect that the Wolfram data does not show peak gust-speeds. The 2011 wind event took out a large number of trees and caused a power outage of 3-4 days - this is not apparent in the graphs.
When looking at the effects of higher heat levels in a system, it is not surprising that kinetic energy also rises. So the so-called "climate pause" can easily be seen as temperature converting into wind-energy rather than temperature .. the IPCC tells us that most of the energy-rise went into oceans .. but that's only part of the story.
The virology programs are fun .. my kid has one that tracks epidemics as a game.
The best one for experimenting with cellular automata is netlogo .. it has example programs and you can create your own scenarios. It is a free download and is used in the complexity course at complexityexplorer.org ..
As a culture, we have acquired an unhealthy disrespect for the sensitivity of human perception and experience. The scientific method is designed to assist our perception - not to replace it.
I think it's a waste of time to spend enormous amounts of time scientifically verifying perceptions that are clearly functional.
I have a certain feel for linguistic memes - doing mathematical models helps that process but cannot equal it. On the other hand, having models to verify feelings is handy - so long as observational data is sufficient to confirm outcomes.
The time for brushing-off time-wasters has come. This will become more apparent as the USA falls into chaos while their federal government is shut-down by these time-wasters. It becomes painfully clear
Oct 4 2013: 'Have you seen Wolfram's TED talk?'
Well, now I have, but it got a bit overshadowed by the fact, that wolframalpha has changed its business model. Actually, it might not have been changed at all, but the last time I used it, it sill was in Beta testing and this without a given clue, that it would turn into a 'pay per computing time' engine. I had to rephrase my request several times to gain the climate data at our places, so that the 'free processing time' was sufficient to return the desired results.
If Google would have used this model, they would never have gotten into pole position.
And as wolframalpha is using trackers on their site, there shouldn't be a need to pay for it in order to maintain this service. But I might be mistaken here.
The GLEAMviz Simulator was a bit on the disappointing side to get quick results as a noob :o).
My first epidemic didn't break out and so did my second and the manual wasn't clear enough to me to understand how to set-up the infectiousness of my diseases to finally get them running... :o) Also its runs as a client, which makes it impossible, at least for most people, to get it hacked to predict on memes. But it contained a very nice visualization module which contained interesting statistics on 'hospital beds' and 'doctors' per population and its distribution.
Thanks to you, I remembered the online course and registered almost right in time, and yes, the netlogo examples were quite interesting to play with.
I do not agree with what you say about the scientific method and that it '... is designed to assist our perception'. It is highly desirable if nature was to be described in those ways, but as much as we found about it, it refuses successfully.
Many scientific findings are beyond our perception and can only be described, rather than truly understood. The particle/wave dualism is one of those and way off our perception, even for scientists.Oct 4 2013: As for a method, I wouldn't consider this disrespectful towards the 'sensitivity of human perception and experience', especially as 'sensitivity', which is related to 'sensor' is known to have a highly misleading potential. The disrespect I would agree on, is the elitist status those methods were allowed to gain, and the devaluation of 'handwork' and 'craftsmanship'.
In fact, my experience within the field of science itself was pretty positive in terms of acceptance of handwork and experience, as technicians and 'handyman' were highly appreciated in those fields. Later I found the complete opposite within the 'real world' of our economy, in which the 'white collars' did their territorial domination all over the place and to put the 'blue collars' at the end of the packing order. To me, this is a consequence out of capitalism, not out of the spirit of science. But science isn't immune and unfortunately got infected, as it depends on the system.
True scientists to me are not related to any academical degree. It is a civilized form of curiosity and to find answers instead of claims. And it never ends, which is part of the fun!
Let's find out, if time-wasters can be imploded on themselves without causing to much waste in time and damage on those who do better. I hope it will work out in time.
John Reid
Oct 8 2013: I like Montaigne's: "The less a thing is known, the more fervently it is believed."
- +1
Oct 8 2013: This is not surprising.
The Bayesian learning system starts with a belief.
The assumption is that this belief will be used as a benchmark by which results will modify the belief.
Unfortunately, this depends on levels of "potentiation".
Human brains have 3 major strata of potentiation - from Sodium/potassium to Calcium to myelin.
Once an un-tested belief persists to the calcium stage, it is very difficult to shift.
That is OK if the rate of change is inter-generational.
But if the rate of change requires change within a lifetime - we are in trouble.
We are simply not adapted to it.
And when the rate of change is due to our own actions.. that is .. hilarious ... if you are not a human being!
Steve Wallis
Oct 8 2013: Mitch,
- +1
I appreciate your kind words - and other off-line conversations. More perspectives are better, A growing idea in some academic circles is "triangulation" - that we can't really understand something until it has been analyzed using three (or more) approaches).
You do bring up an interesting idea... that some may be addicted to certain ideas.
You make some good points. At the moment, it seems difficult or impossible to be sure if any given meme would help or hinder. Given the variety of people and groups, a meme that helped one group to change their minds might simply strengthen the resolve of another group to remain entrenched.
To delve into the specific theories of what might work... or not... I would need to do a lot of analysis on existing theories. Which, sadly, I don't have the time for.
Just a couple of quick anecdotes... The "got milk" campaign was very catchy. But mainly because it had a huge amount of money supported the many repetitions.
When religious fanatics predict the end of the world... and it does not end... I think I recall somewhere that 90% become disenchanted... while about 10% become even more fervent supporters.
Oct 8 2013: Memes are very interesting phenomena.
For instance, the "nyan cat" meme had absolutely no functional or cognitive content and was a particularly successful meme. It might be possible that it triggers an unintended opiate response via the primary field of perception.
When we use words (extrinsic information) for a meme, it operates in the autobiographical-self substratum - in the field of secondary perception.
It therefore relies on common language as a medium - and through that to any opiate channel in the brain.
For instance, (as a conjecture) the "LOL" meme is propagating nicely - partly because it includes the datum of laughter - which has direct access to neural opiate responses via the empathy mechanism.
Similarly the "I [heart-shape]NY" thing propagated well, along with the "I [heart-shape] ..." derivatives.
So I suppose our memic munitions might work better if they contain a subliminal opiate. i.e. positive words and symbols.
Perhaps something like "Climate action for fun and profit" or "Solar smells nicer"?
John Reid
Oct 7 2013: Mitch, try not to concern yourself too much with this issue of Deniers. It is your own unshakeable, ongoing faith that really matters. Deniers will always be with us, whatever they are called. Throughout history people of faith have had to face down Deniers. Just take heart from the fact that Deniers often come to a bad end; Socrates was forced to take poison and Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest.
- +1
Oct 8 2013: Many thanks John.
You are right - denial(time-wasting) is only one aspect of the climate issue.
As a pathology, it begins to look like a clash between world-views - and that these world views become trenchant by way of tribal identity.
If a meme was to have any effective payload, it would act to dissolve a tribal membrane via the common world-view defining that tribe.
The tribe of deniers is proving to be a belligerent one. It is already employing destructive pay-load memes against other tribes through such memic missiles as "climate-gate".
Perhaps a better strategy would be to work on memic defence systems?
The other alternative is outright pogrom. I can see the tension building for just that, and would like to head it off if possible.Oct 6 2013: Denial is a mental disorder?
When someone learns of the sudden, unexpected death of a loved one, at first he or she may not be able to accept the reality of this loss, therefore death is denied.
Climate deniers also cannot cope with the reality of the loss of a lifestyle they know and love. Therefore MMGW is denied.
Oct 6 2013: Fair enough.
Perhaps chronic denial might be equated with chronic depression?
I see it as a problem when denial impedes necessary action.
On a personal level, I suppose we should allow folks to stand in the way of inevitable death .. but as a community, we do not have the luxury of allowing a few imprudent time-wasters to make that decision for us all.
I will concede that it is no easy thing .. that anything outside the ordinary must be scrutinised before acceptance.
On the other hand, we have some intrinsic problems with perception .. for instance, it was related that some South American natives were unable to actually see the Spanish ships offshore because they had no basis to perceive such a strange thing.
Douglass Adams put it so eloquently as the "SOEP" cloaking device (the infamous Some One Else's Problem field) .
Anything that can help us penetrate that field would be a good thing in my opinion - as it not only affects us all, but requires us all to do something about it.
Comment deleted
Oct 4 2013: hmmm ..
"Let's do something about the climate for a change."
Daniel Orbis
Oct 2 2013: By using steam reforming to make hydrogen, instead of burning to make electricity, we can capture all CO2 and cease making air pollution. Piped to towns and cities, H2 fuel cells make local electricity and power vehicles.
- +1
"By disengagng with the atmosphere, we can still use hydrocarbons to power the world."
Oct 5 2013: I'd really like to see some definitive sources for this concept .
This looks to be very important.
What is the best source for us to follow-up?
Daniel Orbis
Oct 2 2013: By converting captured CO2 to algae and using the algae for fertilizer, we can put CO2 into our food instead of the atmosphere.
- +1
"We could end climate change by having it for dinner."
Oct 3 2013: Hi Daniel,
Yes, there are a lot of adaptive strategies available to us.
Unfortunately most of them cannot sustain the overheads of wealth-concentration.
The denialist time-waster is not stupid, he/she is simply defending personal wealth concentration.
This concentration is maintained by the damage of other people - and species.
If you have any regard for the principle of justice, you will see the time-waster as a criminally insane individual - and often tribes of psychopathic individuals.
And what actually is justice?
Justice is the expression of empathy - the acknowledgement that we cannot survive alone .. what's good for you, is ultimately good for me.
Time wasters are lacking the capacity for seeing the "good for you" part of the equation.
This infers some kind of mental or neural damage ..
Those with these mental problems cannot be healed if we keep pouring our time into helping them build their defences. In other words, don't feed the trolls.
By acknowledging that they are wasting our time - we move on and their walls of denial starve and collapse.
This war of memes is not aimed at time-wasters - it is aimed at us.
Recognition of time-wasting releases us to get on with it, and frees them to heal.
It will also have benefit for other domains, e.g. political economics (as the USA can see right now).
The joy of participation is the goal. Anything delaying that? .. not worth attention..
eat climate change?
A nice meme!
Many thanks!
Oct 3 2013: I wish they would get on with it.
Its transformative, not adaptive, as it seeks to change the mechanism of how we make primary power and in so doing stop offloading CO2 and pollutants into the atmosphere, which would improve a lot of people's health and halt the climate debacle. That you can use the best carbon reducer nature has created to turn the CO2 eventually into fertilizer and food fills a lot of bellys.
Once we've made the switch, 20 years (again, if they would just get on with it - this was big in 2002), we could all relax and stop beating ourselves up.
Meanwhile, if it is necessary to work with the devil to get things done, the utilities and coal oligarcy are still in the game, but now they're truly clean, and twice as efficient and still making money and now rid of a huge liability risk - perhaps what it takes to get them finally moving.
Oct 3 2013: Clean?
Have you been to a coal mining operation lately?
I take issue with money - not so much money itself, but how it is utilised to over-concentrate wealth.
I also have suspicion about efficiency. There is the hard-barrier of general entropy - how it inserts into energy-transformation, but there is also something going on with how inefficiency contributes to bio-diversity .. there's something fundamental in there somewhere.
I keep returning to entropy .. life requires a negentropic envelope .. a bit of delayed entropy stored for varying time-spans .. this envelope enables adaptability to what is, in essence, a chaotic universe .. you could say "life is lumpy".
It seems plain to me that life ceases to exist when the negentropic envelope collapses to the baseline entropic gradient (that gradient being expressed in energy flows - in our case, solar radiation.
So what are we doing? We are collapsing the long-term envelope stored in fossil fuels .. well maybe they had no function apart from being used by us.
Returning to direct sunlight seems hazardous to me - it represents the absolute smallest negentropic envelope you can get. It might even precipitate total monoculture ..
The collapse of negentropy stored in diverse species might not be a good idea.
I suspect that a diverse biosphere greatly enlarges the total adaptive capacity for the lumps life presents. A reduced capacity puts us at risk of the large lumps - those we haven't seen before.
I suspect that the current consumption of the fossil-fuel store is premature. The adaptive need was never there - but by deflating that store, we precipitate the need.
Do you have any links to the technology you mention?
Sounds interesting.
(edit: - I think that most people actually are getting on with it - but time-wasting is not a luxury we can afford.)Oct 4 2013: 'algae for fertilizer'
Combine this with 'terra preta' and its own CO2 capturing capacity and our soil may come alive again.
Mike Colera
Oct 1 2013: This sounds like the beginning of another " us and them " conversations where it becomes if you show me your facts, I'll show you mine and then we'll see who has the bigger facts.
- +1
So, I am taking the third position.
Mankind has use carbon based fuels since the beginning and even before the industrial revolution. There has been lots of smoke which is not good to breathe in. Some have said that this smoke has effected our global climate. Others say the proofs are inconclusive.
But the truth as I see it is that we are exhausting the world's supply of carbon based fuels...renewable carbon based fuels are limited as they compete for land for man's basic fuels. Other fuel sources.... nuclear: uranium is limited... Water: everything but the sewage pipe has been dammed up... Wind and solar inconsistent. Power distribution systems that are 100 years old and past improvement. The cost of replacement is astronomical.
What to do?
Man needs an inexpensive source of power. It is the life blood of civilization. Best guesses put new sources... like fusion... hundreds of years in the future. Other experiments in tides, fuel cells etc. hold promise but are still experimental.
What are we talking about. There are real challenges out there and we are discussing "names"?
Oct 1 2013: Hi Mike,
This is way past us-and-them.
We don't have time for that anymore - this is us -
and if we have a tomorrow, we might get a little left-over time for "them".
It's fun and it's legal.
All the things you have mentioned are exponential problems - as far as I'm concerned, most of them become manageable when we stop over-consuming.
But that's not the intent here. The intent here is to clear-through the turbulence and get motion released.
United action on climate change precipitates into action on all the other issues you mentioned - it's a contagious joy-in-unification.
It's exactly what the time-wasters fear - and they cannot stop it now ;)
We are out of patience - the risk now exceeds the price of our compassion, the costs are already higher than they should be.
But all is well - the liberation of community motion is exhilarating - join it, enjoin it, enjoy it.
Barry Palmer
Sep 30 2013: Hi Mitch,
- +1
I think you are right about using memes, and I especially like "war on ignorance". However, the time-waster label will probably not work. The abortion battle started off with each side trying to label the other side, and eventually they both had to recognize that groups have the right to name themselves, and that the discussion had to be abut the issues, not the people.
In the climate debate, I think the time wasters have an Achilles heal, and that is short term self interest. Since carbon based energy is clearly not sustainable, it makes the motives of its supporters very suspicious. I do not know how to translate that concept into an effective meme, but perhaps a simple slogan like "carbon is temporary" might work.
I think the final solution for many of our environmental problems is about two generations down the road. My grandchildren, when they reach adulthood in a few years, will be determined to leave their kids a sustainable, much cleaner world. Until then, too many rich people have too much power, too much at stake, and too little wisdom. I am afraid that before things start to change in a big way, a great many people will suffer, and the environmental damage could possibly be catastrophic.
Edit -- after reading my post, I thought of "carbon = catastrophe".
Oct 1 2013: HI Barry,
Since the Renaissance, we have made the error that people and cultures are rational.
Well .. they are, but that rationality is not linear .. surface logic does not apply.
Edward Bernays and his ilk have proven this comprehensively.
Since the propagenda brigade are the ones attacking the truth, we are on the back-foot ... but the game is not difficult when you know the rules.
All I can say is - watch this space .. this kind of thing takes about a year in physical community up to the national level .. and about 2 years in the global language group (in this case English)..
With the rapid distribution of the internet, I expect this memic insertion to take-hold somewhat .. quicker.
Just try out the missiles when you get the opportunity.
You just deliver the bomb and walk away.
Remember - don't feed the trolls.Sep 30 2013: Creative name-calling does not seem like a promising or original place to start, though it obviously has a lot of appeal to those attached to a "them" and "us" mindset.
A good test of a proposal is to ask yourself how it would work on oneself. What if lots of people started saying to you, "Oh, you are a time-waster?" Productive?
Sep 30 2013: Fritzie, has it been productive to coin and spread the memes 'war on terrorism' or 'axis of evil'?
Personally, I don't think so, as all of those memes tend to support 'generalizations' and prevent for 'differentiations' on views on certain subjects. In drastic cases those memes even exclude any controversial debate and only allows for 'you are either with, or against us' categories, which have never proven to be advantageous in any debate.
But how do you penetrate such memes when they have been coined on a subject already? What do you do when reason and arguments doesn't work anymore? Is it then to remain silent and to step aside for those dominating memes to finally take over, or to use those same principles to counter and undermine them? Elegant? By no means, but what alternatives are there in those situations?
I am afraid, that climate change has become more and more a battleground of memes instead of reason, which for my liking, should be its only source to draw from and this without any interfering agenda.
Unfortunately and due to many reasons, these kind of debate seems to be impossible on many subjects, which makes it necessary to seek for counter-measures within the arsenal left for a debate. Not preferred, but unavoidable in times of need ...
Sep 30 2013: I think you and I agree that these strategies of language are popular but have not moved discourse about important problems toward anything rational, objective, or productive.
I don't know whether there is an equivalent in Germany but have you ever heard kids in a school yard exchange name-calling insults like: You are an ____. No, YOU are an ___. No, YOU are an ___... It doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Belligerent postures only escalate conflict and push people more surely into their corners.
There has to be a more constructive approach than trying to be the better name-caller. Election campaigns in the US have a lot of this back and forth "clever" language-slinging and slick packaging. It's mostly just ugly.
Oct 1 2013: Yes, we have this equivalent here in Germany and I am certain, that it has been around here on the forerunner of todays schoolyards before your and my nation formed into what they are today.
Maybe your parents taught you the same phrase than mine how to deal in those situations:
'The cleverer give in.'
Which, if we think this through today, only gives way for stupidity ... which I dare to propose to rethink those consequences ...
If children get into those kind of 'repetitive arguments', we usually expect a teacher or parent to intervene and to cool emotions down on both sides and to settle a compromise.
But what do we do if there is no such teacher or parent? Does this mean, that stupidity will get its way, because the cleverer is expected to give in?
On 'climate change' I expected the methods of science to be valid to be excepted as such a teacher, or parent, but surprisingly, it isn't.
So what do you do now, being a child on the school yard? Do you step aside and give room to those who are willing to play Russian roulette with all the kids, or do you keep trying and shouting to get the gun been closed away?
If the best of science does not make any difference anymore, Fritzie, I am afraid, there isn't anything left to expect to be a 'more constructive approach'.
Especially by the fact, that science itself is often incapable to 'bite the hand which is feeding' it ...
If you got the money, you can buy any research result you'd ask for. And regardless how sad I am in writing this, this is the way it is. And it is not in the interest of 'big money' to chance the given situation,because if it was, we wouldn't have this conversation here, as all the technology needed is already at our hands!
I am open if you have a working 'more constructive approach' in this situation as the one Mitch is proposing here and I will be the first to adapt to it, if it is likely to succeed...Oct 1 2013: I don't know the phrase "The cleverer give in." Could you write the original German expression? I may recognize it that way.
Still, schoolyard advice is intended for situations that are utterly trivial rather than for things that matter. For things that matter, I expect you and I were both taught that integrity means holding your ground if you know you are in the right.
I do not personally understand the posture of not wanting to get the best possible understanding of an issue. I do not have any magic way of getting adults to seek this.
But my not knowing something that will reliably succeed does not suggest to me that we should be doing something that I feel certain will not succeed.
Oct 1 2013: The German saying goes: Der Klügere gibt nach.
In which 'Klügere' is the comparative of being 'klug', which means 'smart', 'clever' or 'intelligent' and 'to give way' or 'to yield' which is the meaning of 'nachgeben', which is seperated in 'gibt nach' in this sentence.
This phrase is still in use today in Germany, and nevertheless it bears some wisdom, it also bears some false advise, as it does not consider any given circumstances.
I agree with you, that not knowing any better way how to get 'the best possible understanding' should not lead to 'be doing something that I feel certain will not succeed'.
But as we have no better or 'magic way' at hand, on this time sensitive issue. we simply have not the luxury to wait any longer for 'the last skeptics', 'unconvincables' or 'lobbyists' to finally turn in.
Just on its own, and even without the risk of climate change, it is difficult enough to make the people realize and sensitive about our current behavior and that it is neither responsible, nor sustainable nor healthy to us and the environment we need to survive on this our planet.
Any denial of scientific evidence for man-made climate change is wasting time.
In fact, we don't even have the luxury for the usually welcomed debate in science at all, as this as well is wasting time instead of finally acting and preparing ourselves.
Especially, as we can only win in this situation, even if science was completely wrong in what it is warning about.
We know, that the fuel of the engine of our world economy is running on is limited. This is, I hope, beyond any debate. What is debatable is, how long this fuel may still last. But compared to the risks we are taking in not changing now, it doesn't matter how long the remaining resources may still last. There is no way around it to find alternative energy sources, so why not changing now, where it may stop worse things to happen?
This isn't only logic, but also wise but as the clock is ticking, what do YOU do?Oct 2 2013: Hi Fritzie,
the first time I encountered the term 'blob' was in a forum for strategy computer games. There, and for battle simulations, it was used to describe a more unpleasant situation in which an opponent is grouping all of its units in one single big pile, instead of placing them individually spread in whatever tactical order or arrangement. Strategically, blob formations can be extremely difficult to come by, especially if the weapons arsenal does not allow for any kind 'area bombing' or such alike, which of course depends on the game and/or the era of warfare the game simulates.
Blob formations are effective, because they outnumber any other formation in close range battle and even though it is a strategy in itself, it is often despised in gamer communities.
Due to the density of units within a blob and depending on the graphics of a computer game, it is often quite difficult to identify and to count the numbers of units the blob is made of, which in return makes it difficult to choose for appropriate counter units.
Those games usually end in blobs fighting blobs, which from a tactical viewpoint are lacking any kind of challenge or, for some gamers, even aesthetics.
Its a bit like if you watch second graders playing a soccer game, in which 20 little ones are chasing the ball all at the same time while forming a big moving blob in doing so.
In my analogy about young people I used this term to describe, that, as a generation, they appear more and more indistinguishable from one another, compared to generations before, which seem to have had a stronger tendency to form into groups, sub-groups, etc.
And as smart-phones and the Internet has become more and more a center of youth formation, their tools have all become the same, which may be reason why I've got the impression of a loss in variety.Oct 2 2013: I know the word "blob" but did not understand the meaning as you two were using it. Now I do.
I understand the idea in youth soccer. When my husband was set to coach a team of little ones, a family friend advised him that most of what would be involved would be calling out from the sidelines: "Don't bunch up!"Oct 1 2013: Hi Fritzie.
Well .. us and them was a problem I worked on for a few years.
I recommend the work of Jane Elliot to see how this works and how us/them is a default property of human tribal dynamics. An essential part - whether we like it or not..
At this point I am compelled to start putting years of research into action.
Recent thought into the ecological role of tribal dynamics is the last piece of the puzzle.
Watch it unfold.
Results here will be instructive, but other channels will carry the proofs.
I am reasonably confident.
Oct 1 2013: Yes, I think we can see tribal dynamics acted out all around us, not to mention throughout history.
Oct 1 2013: Well,
I have a ton of time for you .. and I gotta say this:
There is time for observation, and there is a time to dive into it and participate.
Right now is a time to "get wet".
It might be the last chance for a lot of us.
I'd rather those I love get that chance.Oct 1 2013: I certainly believe with you in action and live that daily. Many do and differ mainly in the issues they believe are urgent, the particular ones among those issues to which they decide to invest their energy, and their preferred strategies in the moment for advancing them.
I respect your efforts.
Nadav Tropp
Sep 30 2013: So you're claiming infallibility and moral superiority, therefore the skeptics need to shut up?
- +1
I'll just go ahead and show myself out, seeing as I'm very much a skeptic. I'd hate to impose my need of better evidence on your black and white world view; the grey would clash with the curtains.
Sep 30 2013: self-deleted ...Oct 1 2013: Many thanks Nadav -
I am not interested in time-wasting - my time or yours.
If this topic is not for you - that's perfectly OK.
Oct 1 2013: I see the sarcasm failed to properly convey over the internet...
Oct 1 2013: Hi Nadav,
Yes .. Sarcasm is a big risk when talking in just-text.
Text does not have the rich redundancy of face-to-face communication.
At some point we will all have to work out what that means.
Many thanks for your contribution!
Good food-for-thought.Oct 11 2013: here's an outline for any animators or short-film makers here:
(it's based on the practice of whalers to use live-penguins as fuel to fire the whale-oil vats:
paragraph 3: http://www.penguins.cl/penguins-peril.htm)
2 penguins are in the middle of the penguin-huddle one Antarctic winter.
One says to the other "this sucks - it's freezing and windy, we've been doing this every winter and us penguins have been doing it for a million years! There must be a better way!"
The other penguin thinks for a few seconds and says .. "OK - I'll do something - be right back"
After a day or 2 the second penguin comes into the huddle to his friend's side.
He's pushing an iron pot in front of him. Trailing from the pot is a long hose which disappears into the distance.
The pot is radiating heat - and all the penguins gather close and give out a cheer!
What a guy! No more freezing for months every year!
The picture pans back along the hose and it can be observed that, at the edge of the huddle, the hero-penguin is quietly knocking out penguins on the fringe and dragging them into an ice cave.
In the ice cave we can see where the heat is coming from - it's a furnace.
The unfortunate mugged-fringe-penguins are being thrown on the fire.
What a guy!
I recon this penguin meme is good for 3 or 4 30-second episodes.Oct 11 2013: "Climate change is like Adam Sandler. It sucks and it doesn't quit."
Oct 11 2013: LOL!
c'mon - I like Sandler .. well .. the penguin thing anyway ..
Hey! - Did you know that when Whalers ran out of wood to stoke the whale-oil vats, they found that penguins burn really good?
This was back in the days when oil came from whales ..
Who are the penguins now?