text:
- Farokh Shahabi Nezhad
- Tehran
- Iran
CEO & Co-Founder at Idearun, TEDxTehran
This conversation is closed.
Is there any way to prevent religious debates from turning into a big fight?
People discuss lots of things, politics, sports, anything
But when they discuss religious opinions, most of the time, they get all angry and try to win even with fight.
why is that? why that can't be a normal subject?
and more important, How can we prevent this?
Closing Statement from Farokh Shahabi Nezhad
Tnx everyone for their replies. I enjoyed learning from different aspect for this problem.
I can only conclude this : Don't argue with someone unless they are open minded and ready to be changed and challenged.
Feb 20 2013: Probably difficult to have a meaningful conversation when one party believes they have the absolute truth about everything from gods and goddesses down to what to eat and how to manage slaves.
Feb 20 2013: No more difficult than having a conversation--meaningful or otherwise--with those who're equally convinced that "gods and goddesses" don't exist.
I have seen the Niagara Falls of what some would call the supernatural, and the supernatural equivalent of the Great Pyramid of Giza, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, and the Colossus of Rhodes--all the Seven Ancient Wonders of our Supernatural existence and more.
One thing I've learned from my many excursions into the Astral World (so named by occultists and mystics), the only Absolute is the Abode of God--all other loci, and truth, are open to the individual and collective creative power, and energy, of consciousness, including the realm in which we're currently residing.
Feb 20 2013: True - confidence you have the absolute truth on any side of an argument is difficult to deal with.
Although most non theists I know, don't claim to know gods or goddesses don't exist. But suggest they have a reasonable case that there is no compelling evidence for the existence of Zeus, Maduk, Yahweh, Allah, Isis or any other theistic or more generic deistic interpretation. Seems reasonable they don't have a belief in these gods, but good to be open to new evidence.
Others are more certain.
I do find it funny that with 6 billion living slightly to completely different religious supernatural belief systems today and many others held by those who have fallen, the odds are your particular religious or spiritual view is wrong completely or in part.
Your experience sound wonderful and powerful. I might have a different working hypothesis as an explanation but its a wonderful part of the human experience. Perhaps for some, these or possibly related experiences may be out of control and they find it difficult to function in society.
But even dreams are pretty cool. Just familiar and frequent so we tend to take them for granted.
If an experience is enriching and hurts no one, perhaps the interpretation is not such a big deal.
I guess I haven't had all the experiences such as yours, but do meditate and enjoy the different consciousness states I experience. I have also had amazing visions and hallucinations and one OOBE but discount some due to my state of mind at the time.
Whether it is just going on in our brains, or we actually travel or contact other realms outside our mind, its pretty cool.
Feb 20 2013: "I guess I haven't had all the experiences such as yours, but do meditate and enjoy the different consciousness states I experience."
With rumination, one quickly realizes that "consciousness" is the Alpha and Omega of existence. Without it, nothing exists. With it, all possibilities present themselves.
Meditation, the act of going within, opens us to those possibilities, as it concentrates consciousness, and the vast energy stored within it.
"I have also had amazing visions and hallucinations and one OOBE but discount some due to my state of mind at the time."
As humans, we have all the potential of the divine, and, as such, are unlimited in all our ways, and capable of knowing all there is to know, and being all we choose to be.
"Whether it is just going on in our brains, or we actually travel or contact other realms outside our mind, its pretty cool."
Oh, the stories I could tell, and the wonders I have experienced, but, alas, few will believe or accept my tale, either because they're predisposed to disbelieving, or because it's too amazing to ponder.
You're right: "it's pretty cool," by any standard of coolness.Feb 20 2013: Yeah the details are very frustration specially when they can't accept to change their beliefs.
Feb 20 2013: Obey and Farokh,
You have hit on an important factor regarding religious debates turning into a big fight.
Obey, you write..."Probably difficult to have a meaningful conversation when one party believes they have the absolute truth about everything..."
Farokh, you write..."details are very frustration specially when they can't accept to change their beliefs".
I observe that the biggest struggles are when one person not only thinks s/he has all the answers, but ALSO tries get the other person to accept it as THEIR belief as well.
Obey, as you say...no meaningfull conversation can evolve when one person thinks they have all the answers. They communicate as if THEIR truth has to be everybodys truth....and they are on a mission to convince us that they are "right". Nothing can come from that behavior except struggle. Trying to change the other person's belief because they think/feel they are "right" contributes to struggle. When one person in a conversation begins to struggle (fight) , it is common for the other person to struggle and fight to maintain their own perspective, and that is when the conversation beaks down.
We CAN accept a belief as another person's belief without embracing it as our own belief. We CAN be open to thoughts, feelings, perceptions, ideas and opinions of others, without trying to pressure another person to believe as we do. To do that, one has to let go of the idea that our truth, or answer, is the one and only "right" information.
Everything is information....sometimes learned....sometimes proven....sometimes speculation....sometimes beliefs for which there is no proof. Each and every one of us will take the information from our experiences, including what we have been taught by parents, society,etc., and use that information as we choose. We KNOW individuals have different experiences. We KNOW there is information passed down through families, societies, religion, cultures, etc. I experience the differences as interesting:>)
Feb 21 2013: "It seems like this conversation got hyjacked to NDE/OBEs rather than the topic question....
"Is there any way to prevent religious debates from turning into a big fight?""
Of course, you'll see it the way that you see it, and that's your perogative, but these discussions are playing out the question, can we have religious discussions, some of which include a notion of an afterlife, NDEs and OOBEs (which suggest such), the existence of a God, or what have you, and do so respectfully?
If you take the time to re-read some of the comments, you'll find that yes we can sometimes, but not all the time.
No thread was "hijacked," as you've accused, and I say that respectfully.Feb 21 2013: "To do that, one has to let go of the idea that our truth, or answer, is the one and only 'right' information."
I agree: There are as many "truths" as there are people on the planet. I think that it's the proselytizing, the almost relentless attempt to make others believe as you believe that creates the tension, especially when it's coupled with derision, or a denouncing of one's stated position.
I believe that I can respect what you and others believe while at the same time still holding that my position is the "one and only 'right' information."Feb 21 2013: "We CAN accept a belief as another person's belief without embracing it as our own belief"
Good advice.
During an actual discussion or debate it is rare for someone to admit or accept another point of view makes more sense. Kind of like losing face. Sometimes we argue not to be wrong, to win the argument rather than to test and examine ideas.
But then on private reflection afterwards some things might stick and make more sense. Perhaps you can only delude yourself so long when in your heart, or unconscious you find a view counter to the one you espouse seems more correct, even if you argue against it.
There was a stage before I fully renounced my previous religion that I was arguing for the religion, while privately having my own doubts. I'm a bit embarrassed it took me so long to realise I was completely mistaken.
According to some speakers at my old church Henry Kissinger is the anti Christ and the second coming is already late. I guess some Christians have been waiting for the second coming for 2000 years, and expecting it in their lifetime.
It is tempting sometimes to jump in and feel you have been there done that and perhaps frustrated others can not see what you saw years ago. Hurry up and catch up - its obvious. To be dismissive of peoples own realisations will or wont happen in their own time.
One humbling realisation I had was my views over the years have changed a lot. Revolutionary say 10 years ago and refined over the last few,. I like to think they have improved and broadened. IF I was having a discussion with myself from a few years ago I might find the views of my old self some what simplistic. And perhaps in a few years I will look back at my current views, that I put forward in discussions earnestly, and think how naive I was.Feb 21 2013: Thanks Obey:>)
I'm interested in examining/exploring ideas. To me, the life experience is a wonderful exploration, so I wouldn't deny myself more information by thinking/feeling that I have all the answers. Often times, as soon as people think they have the answers, they stop exploring. I'm going to be open to new information as I take my last breath in this earth school:>)
With that in mind, I see no reason for your embarrassment Obey. You know, when I was young, I used to think that by a certain age, things in life would sort of be in order. I got to that age, and realized that is wasn't how I had planned! Ok....next stage will be in order. OOPS....when I got to the next stage/age, it wasn't as planned either....on and on. At different stages in the beginning, I often asked myself....."why didn't I know that BEFORE".....how embarrassing that I did not figure that out sooner!!! LOL
In my 40s/50s, I finally realized that it was the journey, and all I'm experiencing and learning along the way that is important. I no longer try to project into the future. I live one moment at a time. That is not to say that I do not PLAN for the future. It simply means that I realize that life is what happens when we're making other plans...LOL!
I enjoy your comments Obey.....it "feels" like you are genuinely exploring life, and I admire that practice:>)Feb 20 2013: Don't you think, this frequently applies to those who take pride in being "rational"?Feb 19 2013: How can any discussion be done with civility? Listen more than talk; confirm what we hear is what is meant; respect the opinions of all, especially of those who disagree...and above all, refuse to engage or continue with anyone that is belligerent.Feb 8 2013: One thing to keep in mind: our beliefs shape our world view. That is to say, the entire construct of what we feel and know is shaped by our beliefs, whether those beliefs originate from faith or reason.
When you ask someone to change their beliefs, you're asking them to change their world view. This is not only incredibly difficult, even for the most open-minded, but often feels very threatening.
As we know, when humans feel threatened (or their view of reality is threatened), they are more likely to speak or act in a defensive or hostile manner.
I think very few people are actually open to having their entire world view changed, and it's not likely to happen from an online discussion.
Feb 8 2013: Exactly my point as well.Feb 8 2013: ", you're asking them to change their world view" . Very good pointFeb 14 2013: Re: "When you ask someone to change their beliefs, you're asking them to change their world view."
So why are we so casual about the beliefs we instill in children?
Do you know the story of the "ham butt problem?"
Woman's making a ham for a big, family dinner. She goes to cut the butt off the ham and throw it away, and she looks at this piece of ham and she's like, "This is a perfectly good piece of ham. Why am I throwing this away?" She thought, "Well, my mom always did this." So she calls up mom, and she says, "Mom, why'd you cut the butt off the ham, when you're making a ham?" She says, "I don't know, my mom always did it!" So they call grandma, and grandma says, "My pan was too small!"
Let's focus on the mother, she imitated a behavior without the knowledge of why she was doing the thing she was doing. Isn't this true of many of our beliefs and rituals?
We don't ask others to change their beliefs, as much as we invite them obtain the knowledge of their beliefs.
Feb 14 2013: I completely agree: I don't think we should be casual about the beliefs we instill in children. In fact, I don't think we should be casual about any beliefs we hold. We should always be willing to question them, and to dismiss them if they prove faulty.
Jim Smithson
Feb 20 2013: Religion is different than spirituality. Spirituality is a partial experience of the greater. All spiritual experience is incomplete, because it is not possible to know the whole of God. At its best, religion is a dull reflection of God in a little mirror made by the hand of man. At its worst, religion is a tool used by the unscrupulous to twist the will of others or a weapon to subdue ideas that rationality cannot.
- +6
If any discussion begins with recognition that any spiritual perception is incomplete, then a discussion is possible. Then difference can be properly seen in the context that the reflections in two different little mirrors may not be different Gods, but rather reflections of different parts of the same God. God is one, but the one is infinitely complex.
A pretty good rule of thumb is that the more confident the tone of the speaker on religion, the less he knows about God and the more he knows about how to use the tool of religion..Feb 14 2013: Personally I think that when people discuss politics, sports, everything else, they get as angry.
I dont think the subject of God is unique in this failing of mankind.
Feb 14 2013: LolFeb 17 2013: Tify,
You are right as rain.
People can get angry with a baleful glare.
They certainly don't need subject matter.Feb 20 2013: Beliefs are closely related to our identity. When our beliefs are challenged, we take it as a personal challenge - an assault on "who we are". Challenging or ridiculing other people's beliefs has the same effect as ridiculing physical appearance, race, sexual orientation, or tastes. I think, the same mental process is causing derogatory exchanges between iPhone and Android users, as well as soccer fan violence.
I think, people need to spend more time thinking of "who they are" as humans and be careful associating their identity with things, people, soccer teams, bands, brand names, gods, etc. This is how I interpret the religious commandment forbidding to worship idols instead of "I AM WHO I AM".
I like the quote from the film "Lorax":
The Lorax: Which way does a tree fall?
The Once-ler: Uh, down?
The Lorax: A tree falls the way it leans. Be careful which way you lean.
Feb 20 2013: Claims in science can be challenged and are all the time without it being perceived as a personal attack. If a paper or hypothesis is presented and claims are made it is expected that the claimant demonstrate the truth of the claims, to provide evidence and a logical framework, and be prepared to respond to questions and dissenting opinions.
So why should it be an insult to ask anyone making any kind of claim, especially within the supernatural realm to step up and demonstrate, rather than simply assert, that what they claim has merit, something more than just a meme embedded in the minds of a billion people by tradition.
Feb 20 2013: When people study external things, they often do not associate themselves with what they study. This is why people are more comfortable facing challenges of their scientific ideas than facing challenges about their beliefs about themselves or moral issues.
Atheists have their own beliefs which are not to be touched. E.g. there is a widespread belief among atheists that all assertions need to have evidence. This is not true in general. E.g. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," does not need evidence and has none. I tried to question this belief in an atheist forum. I got insults and ridicule in reply and was banned as a "troublemaker". Core beliefs of atheists are not open to questioning.
All people get touchy when their core beliefs are questioned. Scientists and atheists are no exception.
Feb 20 2013: never mind ...you missed the pointFeb 21 2013: "I tried to question this belief in an atheist forum. I got insults and ridicule in reply and was banned as a 'troublemaker'."
We both have this dubious honor in common, having been "banned" from an atheist forum. In my case, twice.
For all their supposed reverence of rationality, they behave irrationally, elevating their atheistic beliefs to the stature of a religion--the very institution they claim to repudiate and scorn.
You could tell, after reading a few of the posts, that most were reticent--and fearful--to deviate from the teachings of their respective guru or mentor, or to question the canons of their faith, lest they invite the ire of the group.
I haven't felt as much pathos for religionist as I felt for these seemingly lost souls, afraid of their own thoughts, and the unreliability of their own minds, as they struggle to place a certain prescribed atheistic overlay the full length of their day-to-day existence.
In short, they were as bound to their beliefs as any religionist.Feb 21 2013: Wilbert,
You write about a certin group of people....
"they behave irrationally"... "most were reticent and fearful"...you felt "pathos" for "these seemingly lost souls afraid of their own thoughts, and the unreliability of their own minds, as they struggle."
Do you honestly think/feel this kind of labeling contributes to furthering a conversation? It appears that you effectively demonstrate why religious debates often turn into a fight.Feb 21 2013: Peter, I understand your point. I agree that we should not be insulted when our beliefs are questioned. But reality is different. People ARE insulted or, rather, feel threatened when their beliefs are questioned. The question is what do WE do about it? I think, it's possible to have a rational response to irrational behavior.
Consider a few analogies. Snakes can bite people for reasons that may not be obvious to us. What do we do about it? Get frustrated that snakes don't behave like people or the way we think they should behave? Declare snakes "evil" and kill them? Or, perhaps, study their behavior, find out under what circumstances snakes bite people and behave in a way that they don't bite us?
All living creatures fear unfamiliar things which they cannot predict and often react with aggression. Same happens when people encounter behavior or beliefs that they cannot understand, explain, or predict. Why would we expect people to behave differently from any other living creature?
Why shouldn't religion follow rules of science? Why shouldn't cats observe table manners? The obvious answer is "cats are not people, human rules do not apply to cats".Feb 21 2013: "If a paper or hypothesis is presented and claims are made it is expected that the claimant demonstrate the truth of the claims."
Take the God Particle (the Higgs Boson), for example, claims were made as to the Standard Model, but the "demonstrated" truth of such claims are still being examined, and which required the construction of the Large Hadron Collider for the claims to be examined and substantiated.
"So why should it be an insult to ask anyone making any kind of claim, especially within the supernatural realm to step up and demonstrate, rather than simply assert, that what they claim has merit."
I've seen ghosts. How do I "demonstrate" that without the assistance of the ghost? I travel outside my body. How do I demonstrate that, unless I take you with me? And there are other claims too numerous to recount, and just as hard to replicate in ways that natural science is required to demonstrate its claims.
Should my claims be dismissed simply because "proof" exists differently in the supernatural realm than the natural, and harder to observe.
Granted, you should exhibit skepticism when claims extend beyond your normal range, but we're faced with such claims daily, sometimes from those who subscribe to one conspiracy theory or the other, and we accept them, if we're predisposed, or we reject them, if we're not.
You suggested it yourself when you use the term, "supernatural." These so-called "supernatural" things usually exist outside the "natural world," and can't always be neatly replicated as with natural events.
All I ask is this: When I and others make supernatural claims, that you reserve judgment as to our sanity, and our veracity.
Even some "natural events" puzzle science. Is light a wave or a particle, or both, for example? Does the observer change the behavior of that which is observed? And, then, there's quantum theory: "A theory in physics based on the principle that matter and energy have the properties of both particles and waves."
Feb 21 2013: Have you ever considered the possibility that while people share the same space they might not share the same reality or the same "rules?" That is, that consistency from person to person is not a requirement in this place. Is it possible that there is no exclusion? Is it possible that all answers are simultaneously right in the correct context?
So is it possible that ghosts exist in your world, but that they don't in mine?Feb 21 2013: You made a comment about atheism behaving much as a religion. You are correct about this. It is a belief system with the same kind of canon and experts and dogma as any established religion. Atheism even has its own saints....although unlike Catholicism or Judaism, they don't yet have funny hats.
No matter what side of the issue you are on, there is no way to produce absolute proof for either position.
So on one hand the religious zealots bang on the scripture that is on the table and the atheists just bang on the table.
Those of us that have had direct experience just hear the noise of their banging.Feb 21 2013: Wilbert, regarding our remarks about atheists, let's not generalize. I agree with Coleen's comment.
To clarify the point, lack of religious prejudice does not guarantee the lack of prejudice. All atheists are different, just as are all religious people (that's, perhaps, the only generalization I can make). It is a mistake to label other people as "fundamentalists" or "creationists" or "lacking a moral compass" or "bigots" just by their faith or lack thereof.
What fascinates me in these debates is how we start with views opposing hypocrisy, bigotry, dogma and end up doing exact same thing that we are opposed to. Didn't this happen to Christianity? When people go too far avoiding these vices, they approach them from the other side.
It's like moderation - "excessive moderation" is self-refuting.Feb 20 2013: This is a very incisive comment. It seems to me that so much of organized religion is about creating an identity. This is as much about who is "in" and who is "out." That is, there cannot be an "in-crowd" unless there are "dorks." You cannot have a "chosen people" unless you have someone that God does not like.
You provoke a very interesting question: What is a person if you strip away all of their identities, or as you put it, their "brands?"
Feb 20 2013: Here is talk about it.
This question intrigued humanity for ages. The concept of "self" is extremely fascinating. It always leads to circular reasoning and defies logic. It cannot be answered by science. I think, this "self-awareness" question is why religions exist with all the references to "I AM WHO I AM" and a host of other circular concepts.
Feb 21 2013: "I AM WHO I AM"
Unconditional being or unconditional existence.
Mark Kurtz
Feb 8 2013: Farokh,
- +5
Perhaps we humans are foolish in the way we handle relations with others. We tend to judge others inaccurately, placing people in "pigeon holes" of identity according to what we understand. We try to force others, through varying techniques, to accept religions and doctrine. Humans have not developed an all-knowledgeable authority. Some have strong convictions even though humans are not omniscient. We tend to think there is something "wrong" with a person who does not accept conversion to his point of view.
Perhaps we'd all be wiser to refrain from attempts to taking something OUT of a person, but be kind, loving and teach or share what we know is best from within ourselves. We'd be wise to accept a person "just where they are" in their present belief situation and look for the good in a person. Rather than make rules for others, become the best we expect of others.
Fights involve failures of persons to listen well and lovingly understand a person's point of view. It's better to listen and respect than to jam a person into a jar he doesn't want. Let God do the judging; humans are not qualified to judge another's soul nor do we have supreme capabilities to see into the deeper reaches of people.
Feb 8 2013: Really liked your comment specially the last paragraph.
Mark Kurtz
Feb 8 2013: Thank you. More could be said, i.e. history of racial conflicts, water and territorial claims, ego and false superiority concepts, et al. Humankind learns too slowly on some things. We'd all be better if we look to the future of peace and make peace deliberately through techniques other than harm or war!
- +1
What human being has ever been granted ultimate supremacy over others for all things? We evolve. What is the goal of evolution of thought, of physical, of relationships? This is food for thought.
Keep thinking!
. .
Feb 12 2013: " Make peace DELIBERATELY through techniques other than harm or war " - that would be smart!Feb 18 2013: Not wanting to single out any one religious for holding beliefs that need to be challenge I will add this note: there are 21 states in our country where corporal punishment in the classroom is legal, where it is legal for a teacher to beat a child with a wooden board, hard, and raising large bruises and blisters and even breaking the skin. And hundreds of thousands of children, incidentally, are subjected to this every year.
- 0
Again Sam Harris weights in on the subject, "And the rationale for this behavior is explicitly religious. The creator of the universe himself has told us not to spare the rod, lest we spoil the child -- this is in Proverbs 13 and 20, and I believe, 23. But we can ask the obvious question: Is it a good idea, generally speaking, to subject children to pain and violence and public humiliation as a way of encouraging healthy emotional development
and good behavior?"
Shouldn't we be asking ourselves, "How can this be prevented?"
Feb 18 2013: I couln't agree more.
What we should focus on is not necessarily how to prevent conversations about religion from turning into a fight as is it not the core of the problem. In my view, the core is the potentially harmful religious beliefs themselves, not the debate about them.
Feb 19 2013: Theodore and Anna,
It is NOT acceptable to subject children to pain, violence and humiliation as a way to encourage healthy emotional development. It makes no sense, does not work, and in fact, encourages and reinforces the cycle of violence and abuse in our world. It is ESPECIALLY disgusting under the guise of religion, which often supposedly has a foundation of respect, compassion, kindness and love.
I agee Anna, that it is the potentially harmful religious beliefs that are the problem...not the debate about them.
Feb 18 2013: Good morning Theodore,
- 0
I was not aware that there were still 21 states which allowed corporal punishment.
After reading your comment and Anna's, may I offer a thought?
The scriptural principle you mentioned reads as follow: "The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline."—Proverbs 13:24; see also Proverbs 23:13, 14.
Note that the scripture is aimed at the parents, not adults in general. It is a terrible thing when sound scriptural principles are manipulated to suit the needs of those who want to control others. In this case control children in school.
Look at the insight I found in an article: "Extremes of permissiveness are as bad as extremes of punishment," so noted a professor of child psychology, "but the fact that remediation is easier with the overdisciplined than the underdisciplined child favors leaning on the side of discipline when in doubt."
The professor emphasizes that the motive for giving physical punishment should be loving concern for the child's present and future welfare."
This, in my opinion, is a balanced view, which is in harmony with the scriptural principle.
A loving parent who communicates with their child, and has disciplined them by instructing them in the kind of behavior that is acceptable and the kind that is not, will seldom, if ever have to resort to the rod.
This has been my personal experience.
None the less, I am glad our state does not have corporal punishment in the schools.
Feb 18 2013: While I understand its intent, I question it application when the article also uses language like,
"This is the "Spanking Proverb" now in much disuse and distaste by a permissive Pepsi Generation -- though more and more wonder if it ought to be reinstituted -- The Law of Moses as well as the Proverbs allowed for corporal punishment based on this principle: "Bruising wounds [KJ: blueness of a wound; NEB: a good beating] "
("Bruising wounds"?)
"Spare the Rod, but Note the Consequences" was the title of an article appearing in The Natal Mercury, a South African newspaper, lamenting the modern trend of holding back physical punishment from children at home and in school. Who is responsible for this changed attitude toward spanking? Professor Smythe, a pediatrician at the University of Natal, South Africa, places the blame squarely on child psychologists. "Usually on delving into the roots of an emotional issue," Smythe explains, "one finds the change in attitude starting with psychological dogma. At first violently opposed to any form of physical punishment, then appalled by the consequences of the indiscipline resulting from a creed of no frustrations and no inhibitions."
Smythe is a curious person to be quoting and there are more credible sources on this topic.
"Parents who spank their children are more likely to use other unacceptable forms of corporal punishment." American Academy of Pediatrics
My suggestion is that people view the modern scientific research instead of relying on ancient wisdoms and that we continue to abolish such abuse.
Feb 19 2013: I thoroughly understand your point of view.
- +1
Unfortunately I don't think you understand mine.
If hitting children was the only way to harm them permanently I would have to give in to your way of thinking.
But, verbal abuse and also plain neglect do just as much harm. In neither case is the child struck by the parent, but the results are just as desastrous.
I only remember being struck once by my mom. She struck me once in the arm.
My actions that day were intolerable. I had done harm that was irreversible.
I cried alot after she hit me. Not so much because her slap hurt me, but because I had done something to hurt her, and showed a lack or respect and consideration for her...my mom.
I have never forgotten it. It caught me by total surprise that she would raise a hand to me.
A stern look was all that she usually wore whenever we misbehaved, and sometimes she would verbally scold us.
I know I will not change your thinking Theodore.
But please understand, that when a parent hits a child under the right circumstances and for the right reasons, motivated by a love of the child and his future, the child somehow understands the the pain inflicted is not on him, but on the parent.Feb 19 2013: American reality is schizoid; Capital punishment is legal in 35 state,yet you express indignation that corporal punishment is legal in 21 states.
Feb 19 2013: I oppose capital punishment also. There is however an interesting correlation between corporal punishment and violence and criminality in later life. We can stop the cycle starting with the abuse of innocent children.
"The more children are spanked, the more anger they report as adults, the more likely they are to spank their own children, the more likely they are to approve of hitting a spouse, and the more marital conflict they experience as adults." Spanking has been associated with higher rates of physical aggression, more substance abuse, and increased risk of crime and violence when used with older children and adolescents."
Wikipedia "Corporal punishment in the homeFeb 13 2013: There is a way. We can treat religion like something very personal, like, say, sex. Each has a position and a preference and each knows up to a certain time all are great and after that certain time it's not a priority anymore.
Feb 14 2013: this is a very good point. I feel faith is very personal and private. I certainly never discuss it . I feel it would dilute its value to me.
I suppose in the same way we cover our nudity with most people.
Faith by definition is connected to the feeling faculty. Perhaps there is either confusion,or overlap, between faith and belief ( more cerebral ?). We don't argue with someone else about a personal feeling, - perhaps a sexual one. e.g. "I am feeling such and such..."
"Oh no you're not, you can't be, that is nonsense you can't feel such and such...." etc!Feb 17 2013: Pabitra,
You've actually won the HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD award.
What a wonderfully expressed way to get to the point.
Many years ago, I watched on TV Archie Bunker tear apart the morals of our time.
I was shocked. But intrigued to see where this all would go.
Last month, I watched on my computer, Shameless, a TV show.
I was shocked. But intrigued to see where this all would go.
We are an evolving humankind.
Man made religions will have to change rapidly to keep up with the needs of their believers.
God will still be here with us all.
Religions will be here also.
They will change, dragging their feet, but unwilling to take a back seat.
Wars may be sparked by religions.
They will not be sparked nor endorsed by God.
Feb 18 2013: Thanks Frank. I have no interest in the God that resides in Temples, Mosques or Churches, God in whose name there are fatwas and edicts, God who seeks to control every aspect of my life in public. Long live the god of small things and my secret awe for a wonderful oneness of the cosmos.
Leo Taylor
Feb 13 2013: If we remove the word "religious" or "religion" and replace with "a fundamental belief system" then we may get to a deeper level of the issue. It may not be religion but a core system of beliefs that we live our lives around. Catholicism, republican, vegan, pro-choice, etc. When a fundamental belief is challenged then we, as a species, tend to employ the more basic emotions. Anger, fighting etc.
- +4
Perhaps we need to address that issue, and it may come about with evolution, social sciences, the advancement of morality and mental education.
Can we debate religion? Sure, lets talk about Zeus or Thor etc... but we have socially evolved where those religions no longer hold sway. Hmmm... brings up an interesting idea. I wonder what some of the ancient debates on the Greek gods were. Was it heresy to talk about Zeus' philandering? I never really thought about the religious arguments of ancient times. I imagine that today we would find them rather silly. I wonder how we will be viewed in 2000 years.
Frank Barry
Feb 18 2013: Leo,
- +1
Please keep writing. You have the gift.
Feb 18 2013: Thanks, that is nice to hear.Feb 13 2013: It's faith vs. faith. never a good combination.
And don't let anyone persuade you that atheism isn't a faith in itself. It most certainly is, especially the 'militant' type from the gospel according to St Dawkins.
The stronger one's faith, or belief, the further away from intelligent argument one gets.
The only way intelligent discussion can take place is by genuinely wanting to understand an opposing view. It takes empathy to do that, plus the ability to question one's own standpoint.
By definition, a belief system endemically has no intention of understanding its polar opposite, unless it has the courage to doubt itself - by which time it begins to move out of 'a belief', into a subject for stimulating discussion.
Feb 13 2013: Re: "don't let anyone persuade you that atheism isn't a faith in itself."
How is the absence of a belief, a belief?
What if one says they are a "non-believer" instead of the term atheist?" Is my "faith" now non-belief?
One does not refer to one's self as a non racist.
This is the reason Sam Harris does not use the term atheist.
Re: "a belief system endemically has no intention of understanding its polar opposite"
This too seems to be a questionable statement.
A person with a belief system can understand an opposing belief system with out the intention of accepting.
I understand communism, I do not accept it.
Feb 13 2013: Theodore, there are degrees of atheism just as much as there are degrees of religious faith. The more extreme or fundamentalist they are, the less likely it will be to want to understand their polar opposites.
If a discussion descends into name-calling, belittling and elitist proclamations, there is usually some sort of faith/belief powering that argument. It may be because faith/belief moves too far away from rationality into emotion - thus being less open to a balanced discussion.
We're getting into semantics here, but "non-belief" seems to me not the same as full-blown atheism. Atheism can no longer be regarded as a moderate stance and is almost used as a badge of honour in order to garner affirmations from like-minded others. Thus a preparation for "going into battle" in an argument, rather than seeking understanding.
The very fact that you understand communism means that you can discuss it as much with a communist as you can with a capitalist without getting too heated, and with less likelihood of offense. Am I right?
Understanding affirms or disproves emotional responses, and is a more effective way of approaching religious debate.
Feb 13 2013: Ahhh, the magic words, " seems to me."
So when you write "Atheism can no longer be regarded as a moderate stance" you are really saying, "To me, Atheism........"Feb 13 2013: Who else would it seem to? Should I be supporting every opinion I have with evidence? All evidence started life as opinion > hypothesis > theory before being accepted as mainstream. I enter debates with opinions just as much as you do. You are welcome to accept or decline them as much as you want.
Yes you are right. To me, Atheism seems to be many things. Not least having a presumption towards ridding the world of religion completely, rather than trying to understand why billions of people subscribe to it in some form.
I personally do not subscribe to any organised religion myself and am doubtful of the existence of God. But what gives me the right to devalue another person's way of understanding the universe without having prior understanding of them and why they believe it?
I know you don't do this Theodore - but one never wins debates by inflicting injury on those who oppose. Injuring opposition in a debate is always a puerile, hollow victory.
Leo Taylor
Feb 13 2013: I think over the last 10-20 years atheism as evolved in its definition and use. It may be time to redefine. I understand both your points and agree with both as long as we modify the definition of atheism OR come up with a new word for one or the other.
- +1
Atheism, as a simple lack of belief in a god, I do not add my belief systems. I do not believe in Smurfs either, but I certainly would not call my lack of belief a system. I also do not like classic cars, and I do not go to classic car shows, AND I do not go to seminars about why I hate classic cars and rail against those that do.... For me it is a non issue.
Allan I would agree with your definition if you were to take the idea of Atheism and expand it to a belief system such as Dawkins prescribes. Militant Atheism. OK, that I interpret as something new and more in depth than the denotative definition of Atheism.
Gay used to mean happy, but has evolved so that an individual can no longer use the denotative definition of the word. I wonder if the word "atheism" will go the same way.
Dan F
Feb 13 2013: Hi Leo and Allan,
- +1
The reason a person is an atheist is why this debate can be upsetting to the conflicting religious point of view. Please look at my post below for my explanation of why I am an atheist.
World class naturalist like Richard Dawkins and academic types such as the late Christopher Hitchens take and took issue with religion because of what has been learned, especially since Charles Darwin about biology and how the human condition is less unique from other living organisms than religious belief authorities and systems want to concede, because of the implications.
No one cares if you don't believe in Smurfs or like classic cars, but if you said you don't believe in the spaghetti monster, ears would perk up. Trust me.
Atheism as a consequence of academic knowledge is only becoming better defined.
I like Theodores's rational on this topic.Feb 13 2013: Leo, I think you're right about redefining atheism. Especially since Dawkins seems to have commandeered the word almost as his own, distorting it to represent a blunt instrument with which to club religion to death - in spite of the known evolved capacity of the human brain to intuit the spiritual as much as it can the scientific.
Because of the aggressive connotations many perceive in the word 'atheism', maybe 'unbelief' or 'non-believer' would be a better badge to wear when embarking on a debate that really does want to get somewhere, but can't, because of an almost studied refusal to empathize.
Feb 13 2013: You must be a therapist or something like that. Your statements are in the definitive when they are actually just perceptions, yours, as I have already pointed out. Why the reluctant to own your perceptions? I find it intellectually dishonest to frame the conversation in a knowingly distorted fashion. You do know better, but still resort to this "bad habit" even when your called on it.
Re: atheism
Atheist no doubt defend themselves, even in an agressive manner, because they are so discriminated against by an overtly religious world.
Philosophers such as Plato argued that atheism (as we understand it today) was a danger to society and should be punished as a crime.
During the Early modern period, the term "atheist" was used as an insult and applied to a broad range of people, including those who held opposing theological beliefs, as well as suicides, immoral or self-indulgent people, and even opponents of the belief in witchcraft.
The poet Percy Bysshe Shelley was expelled from the University of Oxford and denied custody of his two children after publishing a pamphlet on The Necessity of Atheism.
Seventeen states still have a law which states you must believe in God to maintain public office of any kind despite the excerpt from the Constitution of the United States, Article VI, Section III: "… no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
So who is doing the labeling here, isn't it those with atheophobia?Feb 13 2013: You forbid me to have opinions, and now perceptions are barred too because you see them as 'distortions' and 'intellectually dishonest'...?
A recipe for good debate is surely one rich in opinions and perceptions? If opinions and perceptions were forbidden, then such a debate would have to be anchored in evidence and dogma from past knowledge - and thus would not get anywhere. Hence the thrust of Farokh's original question.
I don't think it's dishonest to proclaim doubts about current so-called certainties, without having to consult that ubiquitous monkey on the shoulder who keeps whispering: "Evidence! Everything you say must be supported by EVIDENCE!" That may be all very well for logicians in search of their holy grail of WHAT we are - but what about WHO we are?
You might accuse me of being dishonest again, because here comes another opinion:
I maintain that science - incredibly beautiful though it is, will not be able to get much beyond establishing "what" we are. "Who" we are, on the other hand, is not a scientific discipline and I further maintain because of that, such important existential questions render science impotent. Therein lies the problem: Science then morphs into atheism because of that widening gulf of understanding.
I'm not particularly atheophobic. What bothers me are the extremities of both atheism and religious fanaticism, what might be the causes of them and why they cannot be discussed without getting overheated (see original question).
Now, I've put forward some suggestions in an attempt to answer that question. I may be right, I may be wrong, but it certainly isn't intending to be distorted and I am not dishonest.
Yes you're right. I am a therapist. Well spotted.
Feb 13 2013: Let's be clear, I never said you were "dishonest," (or used the word opinion).
I wrote, "I find it intellectually dishonest to frame the conversation in a knowingly distorted fashion."
Here is the evidence: Ahhh, the magic words, " seems to me." So when you write "Atheism can no longer be regarded as a moderate stance" you are really saying, "To me, Atheism........"
This is what, "Your statements are in the definitive when they are actually just perceptions, yours," meant.
Your framing "atheism" as being, a definitive, ""don't let anyone persuade you that atheism isn't a faith in itself."
I am merely pointing out the difference between these two statements.
1) Atheism is a faith
2 I think, ( perceive, believe etc) that atheism is a faith.
...and claiming that you do understand the difference.
Here you qualify atheism, ""non-belief" seems to me not the same as full-blown atheism. (underline seems to me), but again revert back to the declarative form of framing, by using "is," and writing:
"Atheism can no longer be regarded as a moderate stance and is almost used as a badge of honour in order to garner affirmations from like-minded others..."
So you mean "full blown atheism" and we are now informed that this is just opinion, even though it is a declarative statement, that left unquestioned constructs what "is" in a definitive manner? Correct?
In psychology this is akin to me saying, "I make me feel angry."Feb 14 2013: Very good point.Feb 18 2013: WoW...
You folks have cranked up a whole new offshoot. atheism !!!
But I have to say that your arguments are closely aligned with Obama's..
Idea of penalties for the non-purchase of Health Insurance Policies.
In psychology this is akin to me saying, "I make me feel angry."
hahahahahahahahahahahaha what a gas..
Sorry, I am too tired to get involved with this... lol
Feb 18 2013: "I make me feel angry." is a correct albeit awkward sounding statement, as opposed to the more common misrepresentation of emotional understanding, "You make in angry"Feb 12 2013: Basically it is the underlining fear of one's faith being shaken by the opponents reasoning and arguments. Those who have superficial or surface knowledge of their particular faith , are the ones who get more angry and agitated, and they are the ones more vulnerable to the machinations of unscrupulous religious so called leaders.
However, it is very different with those who are learned in the truest of sense in their particular faith. Knowledge is power. They do not easily fall prey and are very steadfast in their own Faith and such people also respect the belief system of other religions.
So I think true knowledge dispensed by the rightly guided leaders of each religion will go a long way in preventing animosity and hatred. Each to his own way in peace.
Scot Wilcox
Feb 8 2013: Usually when people fight over their beliefs, it's because they're not secure in their beliefs. They don't know what they believe is true or not. I think you'll find that the people who fight over their beliefs have hidden doubts about them.
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After years of using Gmail, I am deciding to switch to outlook .com as my primary email. Gmail is a good email provider, but its sluggish at times, it receives massive amounts of spam, its messy looking. Outlook seems safer, it has a cleaner interface, its very fast and responsive, it doesn't read emails to deliver ads. Outlook.com's interface is also very modern in contrast to gmail which seems like its stuck in 2005. There are perks of using outlook also like its interwoven into Windows 8.
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None so far.
I highly recommend outlook.com, if your sick of gmail and are looking for something fresher, safer and more reliable, switch to outlook. You can use either @live.com, @Hotmail.com or @outlook.com for your email address.


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Suspense/Thriller, SciFi/Fantasy
The screen's great existential science fiction film, The Incredible Shrinking Man stars Grant Williams in the title role. While catching some rays on his brother's yacht, Scott Carey (Williams) is enveloped by a mysterious dark cloud. Soon after, he discovers that he's getting thinner -- and smaller. Despite the assuring attitude of his family doctor (the inevitable William Schallert), Scott is losing an inch's worth of height with each passing day. It is finally determined that he has developed an anti-cancer, a by-product of a new strain of insecticide. By the time he's reached the size of a small boy, Scott has become world-famous. But the phenomenon has adversely affected his personality, turning him into a tyrant, lashing out at the world in general and his faithful wife in particular. An anti-toxin briefly halts the shrinking process, whereupon Scott joins a midget troupe, where he is briefly accepted for what he has become. But before long he's shrinking again, becoming so tiny that he is forced to live in a dollhouse. When Scott is attacked by his pet cat, his wife assumes that he's been killed; in fact, Scott, by now so minuscule that even a garden-variety spider poses a deadly threat to him, is hiding in his cellar. By film's end, Scott is no larger than an atom. Uncertain of what is in store for him, he steps out into the mists, summing up his newfound philosophy: Smaller than smallest, I meant something too. To God there is no zero. I still exist! Adapted by Richard Matheson from his own novel, The Incredible Shrinking Man is enhanced by its superb special effects.~ Hal Erickson, All Movie Guide
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Del Mar's housing plan moves forward, food truck ban continues
DEL MAR A much-debated plan that lays out future housing guidelines in Del Mar is now being submitted to the state, after being approved by the Del Mar City Council this week.
Meanwhile, the council extended its temporary ban on new food trucks, saying the city needs more time to develop regulations on such vendors.
The housing document — which passed on a 4-0 vote, with Deputy Mayor Lee Haydu absent — was crafted after more than a month of last minute meetings and workshops.
Council members, staff and residents acknowledged the plan was just the first step in creating a real solution for some of Del Mar's housing needs, particularly how and where to create affordable housing in the upscale seaside city.
"... I'm hoping it's a plan we can make some progress with," said Councilman Al Corti. "I think we need to get serious."
To meet state guidelines, Del Mar must create 71 housing units between now and 2020, with 22 of those units built to accommodate low and very low incomes.
The state began requiring such housing plans — officially called housing elements — in 1969 and Del Mar is the only city in the county that hasn't created a single affordable unit since then, said Kathy Garcia, Del Mar's director of planning and dommunity development.
The city's last housing plan — covering 2005 to 2010 — never gained state certification.
Consultant Veronica Tam, who was hired by the city to help draft the housing plan and has had success with other housing elements, said Monday she believes the document will pass state muster.
"I would say this is a very good attempt, a very strong attempt," Tam said.
Del Mar's housing plan caused controversy when it was presented to the council in late November. Residents opposed parts of it that resembled Proposition J, a recently defeated ballot measure that addressed downtown revitalization.
The downtown provision, which would have modified zoning rules to allow high-density housing to be built near the downtown strip, was removed.
But city Planning Manager Adam Birnbaum stressed the importance of identifying an area that could house 20 units per acre — a designation the state feels would more likely lead to affordable units — if Del Mar wanted its best shot at passing state muster.
"This is an area that receives a high level of scrutiny," Birnbaum said. "In recent meetings we've had with (state) representatives, they were very upfront that they are looking at this with a very critical eye."
In an effort to satisfy state requirements, the city included a provision that could eventually rezone the city's north commercial zone and professional commercial zone to allow for high-density development.
All programs, including high-density zoning regulations, would need to be vetted by the community and the council before being implemented, said Birnbaum.
"We have a whole lot more community work to do after we hear from the state," said resident Bud Emerson. "We have a lot of programs here and each program has an opportunity for community input and for us to tweak it in ways it will fit us."


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Jun 20, 2003
Bellwood, Ill. - June 20, 2003 - Sharpie, the world's most popular family of permanent markers and part of the Newell Rubbermaid (NYSE: NWL) portfolio of businesses, is demonstrating how to "Write Out Loud" in its new television and marketing campaign unveiled today. The $7 million campaign begins on June 23 with the first of three television advertisements focused on the breakthrough new products from Sharpie markers. "If you want to make a bold statement - when you want to write out loud - you do it with a Sharpie marker," said Greg Stoner, vice president and general manager of Sharpie. "The program we have put together highlights the bold and expressive nature of Sharpie markers and our lineup of products - from the functional to the flashy." The Sharpie "Write Out Loud" marketing campaign features 15- and 30-second television spots developed by New York-based McCann-Erickson Worldwide. The spots will air on national network and cable television through September. The plan also includes more than 15,000 point-of-purchase displays, as well as grass-roots events and mobile marketing across the country in 2003. The lead spot, "Videotape," features the Sharpie Metallic silver marker, the first Sharpie that can write on dark surfaces, in a humorous tale of male contemplation. Nick, a relatively harmless twenty-something husband sees an upcoming "must record" program on television. He frantically shuffles around to find a videotape to record the show, but the only one available is labeled "Our Wedding" in Sharpie Metallic silver marker. When Nick considers his plan for the tape, the writing morphs to his wife's face as she sternly warns - "Don't even think about it." The spot finishes with the loving couple watching their wedding video together. Two other spots called "Party Cup" and "Moving Day" highlight Sharpies wide variety of markers - from fine point markers available in 12 colors to broad tip markers that come in a range of eight colors.
In addition to media, Sharpie is teaming up with a bold sports figure - San Francisco 49ers All-Pro wide receiver Terrell Owens - on July 1 to kick-off a community education and fundraising initiative. Owens received widespread attention last year for a now famous touchdown celebration where he autographed a football in the end-zone using a Sharpie marker. The kick-off is the beginning of a national tour where a fleet of Sharpie "metallic" all-terrain vehicles will visit retail and community events through the end of 2003. "Sharpie is reaching another milestone thanks to great new products and loyal individuals who continue to support the brand," said Stoner. "There has never been a more exciting time for Sharpie and Sharpie fans."


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The Great Reset Has Arrived
The Pew Research Center has near-impeccable credentials with its polls, which is why yesterday's—which showed Mitt Romney ahead by four points among likely voters—inspired mass panic among supporters of President Obama. Andrew Sullivan was at the forefront of the freakout. In a post titled "Did Obama just throw the election away?", he excoriated Obama's lackluster debate performance:
"I've never seen a candidate self-destruct for no external reason this late in a campaign before. … I'm trying to see a silver lining. But when a president self-immolates on live TV, and his opponent shines with lies and smiles, and a record number of people watch, it's hard to see how a president and his party recover."
Sullivan will have more grist for the mill if he wants to continue to voice his disappointment with Obama. This morning, the Democratic-leaning Public Policy Polling released a national poll that shows Romney with a two-point lead over Obama among likely voters, 49 percent to 47 percent. Markos Moulitsas, founder of Daily Kos, calls this "disastrous." The major polling averages have already changed to reflect this shift in the race, and they all show a sizable decline in Obama's overall performance. The Real Clear Politics average gives him a 0.5 percent lead over Romney; the Pollster average gives him a two-percent lead over Romney; and Talking Points Memo has Romney with a 2.4 percent advantage.
If you're an Obama supporter, this looks like a fail of epic proportions. But there's reason to believe that the worst is over. Ignore sample sizes or partisan ID or any the other polling Kremlinology that's popular on Twitter. The only thing you need to know about the Pew and PPP polls is that they were taken in the immediate post-debate period, from Thursday to Sunday. Thanks to tracking polls from Gallup and Rasmussen, we know two things about the aftermath of the debate. First, that Romney received a decent-sized bounce of three to four points, and second, that this bounce began to subside as exuberance from the debate died down.
Gallup, in particular, is instructive. Its three-day tracking poll, from Thursday to Saturday, showed Romney close the gap and turn the race into a tie, 47 percent to 47 percent. But its seven day poll, conducted from October 1 to October 7, had Obama with a five-point lead, 50 to 45. Either the results of October 1–3 were strong enough to outweigh the results of 4–6, or Sunday showed a serious dropoff in Romney's support.
Rasmussen polls conducted during the same period suggest that it was the latter, and Romney saw a decline in support during the weekend. According to Rasmussen, Romney went from 49-percent support in the immediate post-debate period to 48 percent once Thursday was dropped and the sample was limited to Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Likewise, PPP found that support for Romney dropped as the weekend came to a close: Romney won Thursday and Friday by a combined 2.5 points, while he won Saturday and Sunday by just half a point. The bulk of responses (75 percent) were received on Thursday and Friday.
Romney's four-point lead in the Pew poll is consistent with what I've described. In all likelihood, Pew recorded an outstanding performance for Romney on Thursday and Friday, which dipped a little on Saturday, and then further on Sunday. The Pew poll reflects Romney's improved standing with voters. But odds are good it doesn't reflect the reality of public opinion, especially given new evidence that the debate bounce was short-lived: The most recent survey from the Washington Post and ABC News shows both candidates with improved favorables, but Obama still ahead of Romney by eight points. And, most importantly, Obama's job-approval rating remains near (or slightly above) 50 percent, a good sign for any incumbent. So there's the silver lining Sullivan was hoping for.
After the debate, I said that the president's loss wouldn't matter. More evidence is needed for a definitive judgment, but for now, it's fair to say that was wrong. The debate has shaken up the race and pulled Romney into a near toss-up with President Obama. He's not winning, but he's closer than he's been all year.
Tue, 2012-10-09 19:35
In June and July we saw things slipping back and forth a lot as well. It was at the end of July that Obama began to pull away. I'm sometimes VERY embarassed to be a Dem, because honestly, we're such wusses about all this.
If Robme had lost the debate the Republicans still would've insisted he won. When Obama inevitably comes back--they'll still insist that Thurston won. When Obama wins reelection, they'll insist that Romney won. Because they're arrogant fat heads.
We actually could use some of that confidence
Wed, 2012-10-10 10:03
The middle east is about to self immolate. European economy is a train wreck, with China and Japan looking weaker. Muslims have started war against America, and dead bodies are bumps in the road. The U.S. economy is about to crash and burn. Our stock market is about to take a nose dive.
So Obama talks about big bird. Now I know for sure Obama is qualified to be class president but not POTUS.
Fighting Mad in L.A.
Wed, 2012-10-10 11:46
OK ckwn, what is your point? Obama failed to invoke the spells he learned at Hogwarts umm I mean Harvard and prevent international calamity around the globe so we should give the Whitehouse to this dude who has the following credentials: ran a small state in the Northeast, ran an Olympics, was a vulture I meant venture capitalist, and has been running for President for the better part of three decades?
Do you really think that Pirate Romney is entitled to OJT at this time? I sure do not.
Fighting Mad in L.A.
Wed, 2012-10-10 11:45
OK ckwn, what is your point? Obama failed to invoke the spells he learned at Hogwarts umm I mean Harvard and prevent international calamity around the globe so we should give the Whitehouse to this dude who has the following credentials: ran a small state in the Northeast, ran an Olympics, was a vulture I meant venture capitalist, and has been running for President for the better part of three decades?
Do you really think that Pirate Romney is entitled to OJT at this time? I sure do not.
You need to be logged in to comment.
(If there's one thing we know about comment trolls, it's that they're lazy)


text:
Would you like to see more of Panama?
I think the only place I haven't visited is the island of Bocas del Toro.
Would you recommend Panama as a country to visit?
Well, it has nice things, but the only thing they can improve on is customer service, and then it'd be a place I could recommend to everyone with whom I exchange ideas.


text:
The twenty-first century will see the continued development of amazing new computer-based technologies. No matter your future career, if you want to excel, you must be able be to understand these technologies and converse with those who provide them. To meet those goals, Loyola offers courses for non-majors. Each of these courses satisfies one sciences/mathematics core requirement.
CS111 - Introduction to Computers with Software Applications
CS112 - Introduction to Computer Science
CS116 - The Internet and the World Wide Web
CS118 - Computers, Robots, and Minds: Introduction to Intelligent Computing
CS120 - Topics in Introductory Computer Science
The Computer Science Department collaborates with other departments on interdisciplinary projects. Such a collaboration led to an interactive computer art display in the Fine Arts Gallery late in Fall term, 2010. Please contact the Department chair to discuss ideas.


text:
Very.co.uk 'style superhero' by St Luke's
Very.co.uk has launched its Christmas ad starring its brand ambassadors Fearne Cotton and Holly Willoughby.
The spot, by St Luke's, positions the online retailer as a "style superhero" that solves all of its customers' gift-related dilemmas. It was written by Ed Redgrave, art directed by Dave Wigglesworth and directed by Henrik Sundgren through Acne Production.


text:
Texas' pursuit of Ca. businesses a war of words
California needs a slogan as catchy as "Don't mess with Texas." Or maybe that should just be our state motto.
It would be a lesson to all Californians, even a call to arms: We're not only losing our golden sheen, we're being outshone by a lone star.
In the ongoing war for businesses that can be the lifeblood of a state's economy, Texas Gov. Rick Perry helped launch a $24,000, seven-day ad blitz Monday on six California radio stations — from San Diego to the Bay Area.
The ad is airing less than two weeks after Gov. Jerry Brown cheered in his record 11th State of the State speech, "California is back."
On Tuesday, Brown told reporters who won't stop asking him about the ad: "It's not a serious story, guys. It's not a burp. It's barely a fart."
(As an aside, what we really need in this war are bumper stickers boasting, "Our state's former presidential candidate can beat up yours." Perry fell short in 2012, but Brown lost in 1976, 1980 and 1992!)
As breezy music swells in the background, Perry begins his new 30-second spot by saying, "Building a business is tough, but I hear building a business in California is next to impossible."
He ends the ad with this line: "Visit texaswideopenforbusiness.com and see why our low taxes, sensible regulations and fair legal system are just the thing to get your business moving to Texas."
The Californian in me immediately went for sarcasm: How about texaswideopentoridicule.com? Then the traveler in me (whose sister lived in Austin, Texas, for years) thought: Perhaps Perry is right.
Republican political consultant Jennifer Jacobs of San Diego certainly thinks so.
"Rick Perry warned many, many times that businesses would flock even faster to Texas if Californians continued down the path of ever-increasing punitive taxes," she told me. "Why wouldn't he lure good jobs and businesses? The reason this is a problem is because we (as a state) certainly cannot do that in reverse."
"Why do you think we can't?" I asked her.
"Oh, c'mon Matt," she said. "If we could, we would. I can see the marketing campaign now. 'Please come here where we penalize businesses from Day One. We have ever-increasing taxes on you if you dare to be profitable. Try it. You will like it.'"
I replied: "You made your point — and probably my column — right there."
On the other hand, San Diego writer Andy Cohen doesn't buy Perry's proclamations.
"How's that Texas education system coming along?" Cohen asked me facetiously while sharing a link to a story headlined, "Judge Rules Texas Public School Funding System Unconstitutional."
"Or Texas' plan to kill research at (the University of Texas)?" Cohen continued while sharing a second story headlined, "A Clash Over the Future of Public Higher Ed."
"That ought to attract plenty of high-tech businesses," he added.
Taking a broader view Tuesday was San Diego branding consultant Todd Mendoza.
"California should be worried, but not just about Texas," he said. "Also Utah, Florida, Louisiana, Nevada."


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An Ambleside volunteer has been declared as Oxfam's International Person of the Year.
Barrie Wendt received the accolade not only for his work at the Ambleside branch, at which he has volunteered for over 22 years, ever since retiring. But also for the business retailing systems he has developed and introduced nationally, which keeps over 700 Oxfam shops in the UK running smoothly.
Annually Oxfam receives £30m from its 700 UK shops, including £50,000 from the Ambleside store. Many of the shops 30 volunteers gathered to celebrate Mr Wendt's award.
A GIANT picture frame is touring the Lake District this month to 'frame' the stunning landscape in the style of a work of art.
The large four metre by two metre frame is being positioned in various locations to show off some of the area's most spectacular views.
The frames are part of the free Sine Dubio (without doubt) Festival of Art – a new 'dynamic and interactive' art festival for the Lake District.
Sophia Newton, of Sine Dubio Art, said: "The Lake District has long been a source of creativity for poets, writers and artists. We wanted to highlight this by framing the area's breath-taking landscape and showing just why artists keep coming to the Lake District for inspiration.
The festival will champion the work of 15 artists from across northern England – including nine local Cumbrian artists. Claire Bentley-Smith, an equestrian artist from Leeds, will also be creating live art during the exhibition, as well as running classes.
The Sine Dubio festival will take place at Low Wood Bay, on the shores of Windermere, on the weekend of February 16-17. Entry to the festival, which runs between 10am and 6pm on Saturday and Sunday, is free. For more information about the Sine Dubio Festival of Arts, visit sinedubioart.com
ARCHAEOLOGY enthusiasts are being urged to get involved with the third and final stage of a project looking at the industrial past of the Lake District.
'Reflections on History' is a joint project by the Lake District National Park and the National Trust and provides opportunities for local people to learn about the past industries of Windermere.
The project has already looked at the industrial themes of woodland and water power but the third stage, starting in April, will take place at the lead mines and slate quarries in Grasmere and Langdale.
An introductory day, including a guided walk to Banks Quarry, Langdale, will be held next month for would-be participants to find out more.
"No prior knowledge or experience is required and on-site training will be provided by qualified archaeologists," said LDNPA Archaeology and Heritage Assistant Holly Beavitt- Pike.
"However given the remote location and nature of the sites it is important that volunteers can demonstrate a reasonable level of fitness in order to take part in the work," she added.
The day begins at 11am on March 9 and is at Langdale Village Hall, Chapel Stile.


text:
Rachel Dove-Baldwin
Staff Writer
WILLIAMSON - Numerous defendants have been taken into custody in Mingo County, with several law enforcement agencies being involved in the arrests.
Misty Dawn Dillon, 30, of Borderland Rd., was arrested by Mingo County Sheriff's Department (MCSD) Deputy M.J. Miller on charges of violation of a protective order, domestic battery and domestic assault.
According to the criminal complaint, the defendant's husband, Jonathan, called Mingo County 911 and reported that his wife Misty had come into his home; slapped him in the face and then proceeded to cut his telephone cord and also threatened to stab him. The victim had been issued a restraining order against his estranged wife and it was still in effect at the time the incident occurred.
Jessica R. Johnson, 30, of Gilbert, was taken into custody by West Virginia State Police (WVSP) Trooper C.A. Douglas on charges of DUI, driving on a suspended license, leaving the scene of an accident where property damage was reported, failure to render aid and failure to maintain control.
The defendant was operating a 2003 Ford F-150 on Rt. 10 in Ben Creek when she allegedly traveled across the centerline and struck a 2006 Chevrolet Silverado driven by Willis Johnson, Jr. After striking the other vehicle, Johnson is said to have continued without stopping until she reached the parking lot of Bonnie's Place Convenient Store. First responders located the defendant and transported here back to the accident scene.
Trooper Douglas administered a series of field sobriety tests to Johnson, who was unable to complete them. A DMV check revealed that the defendant's driver's license had been suspended for multiple reasons. She told the officer she had taken prescription medication before getting behind the wheel.
William E. Mullins, 27, of Delbarton, was arrested by MCSD Deputies Miller and J.R. Fitch on charges of domestic battery after he allegedly became involved in an altercation with his father, striking him in the face with his fists, which resulted in facial injuries and a laceration to the left eye.
Justin Willie Hensley, 20, of Dans Branch, was taken into custody by Williamson Police Department (WPD) Patrolmen B.W. Gibson and J.L. Marcum on charges of disorderly conduct, obstruction, public concentration and contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
While on patrol on w. 3rd Ave. in Williamson, the officers observed two individuals exiting the Phoenix Grille with an alcoholic beverage in each of their hands. Upon questioning, the patrolman could detect the strong smell of alcohol on their breath. While conducting the investigation, it was discovered that one of the individuals was underage. During the process, Hensley is said to have become very irate and refused to cooperate and acted in a threatening manner. He also refused to take an alcohol breathalyzer test and was placed under arrest.
Dewey Hopson, age unknown, from Accoville, was arrested by the Gilbert Police Department on charges of reckless driving and left of center after officers responded to a 911 call of an erratic driver weaving back and forth across the center line.
A traffic stop was conducted after the driver was observed operating his vehicle into oncoming traffic, narrowly missing striking a car. Hopson then is said to have driven off the roadway and collided with a concrete fixture.
Officers from all agencies within the county encourage all who are planning to travel during the holiday weekend to use caution and to obey speed limits. Additional patrols will be on the roadway through Sunday, as they will be on the lookout for law breakers.


text:
$500,000/municipality $750,000/Federal Tax ID
Energy Efficiency Fund
$500 - $100,000/project
The Connecticut Energy Efficiency Fund offers financing through electric utility implementation of the Small Business Energy Advantage Program. The combined rebate and loan program offers Connecticut Light and Power's (CL&P) and United Illuminating Company's (UI) small business and industrial customers efficiency improvement loans and rebates for participating facilities. Business customers with an average 12-month peak demand between 10 kilowatts (kW) and 200 kW qualify for rebates; municipal and governmental facilities are also eligible. A utility contractor conducts an energy assessment of the facility and submits a proposal of possible energy-efficiency measures, estimated energy savings, customer incentives, and financing options. Once approved by CL&P or UI, an exact rebate amount is determined. In addition to the rebate, the remaining cost of the project can be paid off in the form of a zero interest loan directly from the utility.


text: Growing Up On Tour Available Online! We now have Anna's film available to buy online, and also have a feature now available with an interview with Anna and Peter, a preview video showing clips from the film and all the techincal info you should need to know before purchasing. Growing Up On Tour Feature Buy Growing Up On Tour Online! Share : Tweet ‹ Peter to be honoured with the 2004 Music industry Trusts' Award New signing Daby Toure support Peter Gabriel on tour ›


text:
Book 'Unforgettable Holidays' offers and earn Triple JPMiles.
Unforgettable Holidays' offers a unique opportunity to relax and rejuvenate in some of the best hotels in the world. Tranquil surroundings, elegant interiors and beautifully landscaped gardens with reflection pools create a soothing and intimate ambience.
Reservations are subject to availability of rooms allocated to this offer at the time of making the booking.
At The Oberoi Vanyavilas, accommodation is in a Luxury Tent.
For The Oberoi Vanyavilas, transfers are from Sawai Madhopur railway station.
Meals (as specified in the offer) will be served in the restaurants.
At The Oberoi Vanyavilas, offer is applicable till June 30, 2013.
Standard cancellation policy applies.
Offer cannot be combined with other promotions or offers. Complimentary children room is on room only basis including taxes.
© Jet Airways (India) Ltd.


text:
Moderators: Blitzen, Almighty Benny, Silent-sigfig
Natalya wrote:Fredde, you don't win the internet with this.
You ARE the Internet.
Natalya wrote:The only impartial way to do this would be to have judges who are not playing. Or just say everyone is a because they showed up.
Killer Karetsu wrote:Lol the swedish church is awesome.
I could even drop by! Is the age range free?
Warhead wrote:my head burns with War.
Alex wrote:Colette wrote:The only thing we have in the USA are bald eagles, a dysfunctional government, and a right to vote for that dysfunctional government.
Edit: Oh, and legos that cost 50% less than the rest of the world. Can't forget that.
Not necessarily true. I got a great deal off of a polish bricklink store for my crimson dawn guys, who were much cheaper there than they would have been at any US store. The torsos were $0.60 each, with 60 odd torsos, while most places had them at over $1.30 each and only had around 1-5 torsos. I ended up getting the torsos, heads, helmets and weapons for 20 guys for about $40, although I had to find legs somewhere else.
Also, despite our problems, the USA is still pretty awesome. Compared to many other countries, our problems are pretty small. A massive obesity epidemic for example is far easier to deal with than mass starvation. Our dysfunctional government still functions better than many others, such as Greece, Russia, China, Egypt, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea or Somalia, to name a few.
Bragallot wrote:Just ask Silverdream. He decides what's true and right, and what someone said or meant at some point, even if they didn't. Clearly he is the most suitable person for fixing this mess.
Bluefog wrote:I mean, I could just throw my feces at you and my feelings would be conveyed adequately.
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text: There has been some talk about the song Little black submarines being a rip off of a led zepplin like sound. Particularly stairway to heaven. I think I disagree. I will agree that they have similar song progression, but I don't think there is any problem with having a similar song progression as a great song... I hear songs what follow smells like teen spirits progression all the time. What do you guys think?


text:
Moderators: Tonyblack, Jason, Toothy
Tonyblack wrote:Should that be bald rather than bold?
Selkie wrote:We watched Priest this evening. It's a sort of dystopian future vampire meets cowboys meets warrior priests movie. The good points - it was only 90 minutes long and the bikes were pretty cool.
Tonyblack wrote:I treated myself to the digitally remastered boxed set of Carl Sagan's 'Cosmos'. That series blew my mind in the 80s when it came out. I got the book of the series and even 'The Music of Cosmos' album. But I haven't watched the series since that first time around.
It's even better than I remembered it!
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


text:
Track using Order ID
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- Track individual Orders
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|Number of Songs
|Memory Size
|Model Name
|Model ID
|FM Tuner
|Yes, 30 Preset Stations
|Searching Methods
|MP3 Audio
|8 to 320 kbps, Supports Variable Bit Rate (VBR)
|Play Mode
|WMA Audio
|10 to 320 kbps, Supports Variable Bit Rate (VBR)
|Additional Features
Backlight, 40dB Channel Seperation, 40 - 18000 Hz Frequency Response, 78dB Signal to Noise Ratio, Digital Rights Management, 8 - 320 kbps MP3 Bit Rates and VBR, 10 - 320 kbps WMA Bit Rates and VBR, Built in NAND Flash Memory, Mass Storage Class Compliant, Keypad Lock, Firmware Upgradeable, Volume Co...View More
Backlight, 40dB Channel Seperation, 40 - 18000 Hz Frequency Response, 78dB Signal to Noise Ratio, Digital Rights Management, 8 - 320 kbps MP3 Bit Rates and VBR, 10 - 320 kbps WMA Bit Rates and VBR, Built in NAND Flash Memory, Mass Storage Class Compliant, Keypad Lock, Firmware Upgradeable, Volume Control, 150 mAh Battery Capacity, Operating System: Windows XP (SP3), Windows Vista, Windows 7, Compatible Headphones: Philips SHE1360/97 Headphone, Philips SHE3570WT In-the-ear Headphone (White), Philips SHE2641 Headphone, Air Free Headphone
|Battery Type
|Lithium Polymer
|Max Power Output
|10 mW
|Recharging Method
|USB-based Charging
|Warranty Summary
|1 Year Philips India Warranty and Free Transit Insurance.
|22 g
|82 mm
|28.7 mm
|10.5 mm
|Display Size
|3 Line
|Display Type
|Display Resolution
|128 x 64 pixels
|IO Device
|Headphone (3.5 mm), USB (2.0)
|Yes, (For Access to Updated Support Documents, Manuals, Future Firmware and PC Software Upgrades)
|Audio Playback Time
|13 hrs
|Sound Settings
|FullSound, Funk, Hip Hop, Jazz, Rock, Techno, Classical
|Audio File Format
|Voice Recording
|In the Box
|Sales Package
|AY3819 Headphones, Quick Start Guide
Please Note: All products sold on Flipkart are brand new and 100% genuine
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Abhishek Tyagi
Jun 19, 2015
Amazing device.
Arpita Chakraborty
May 14, 2015
Awesome !!!!!!!
Nidhish Dessai
Mar 18, 2015
Best for the price
Feb 16, 2015
Please do not buy this product...
Rohan Verma
Nov 1, 2014
Nice Product
'Top Reviews' lists the most relevant product reviews only. Show ALL instead?Expand all Reviews
Sep 17, 2011
InfoSome info I want to share.
Basker V
Sep 26, 2011
Not good for recordingRecording:I primarily ordered this for recording song practice sessions during my daughters' music class. Turned out that it is awfully inadequate for this purpose. Its recording capabilities are very weak if the unit is any further than a feet away. Even when kept near, its sound quality is awful as it clips a lot. Hence do not buy this unit for recording purpose(for class lecture etc) as Sony is better model for the same.(rating 0 out of 5)
Soumyadip Pal
Oct 16, 2011
Does what it's meant to do. Very well.Bought this player from Flipkart after I lost my older Samsung U5. The price advantage and delivery promptness at Flipkart is unquestionable, so I'll only talk about the player.
Vijay George
Sep 21, 2011
GoGear Mix - slow and unreliableI ordered this player a month back and as always, buying it was a breeze on Flipkart. It was also delivered well in time.
abhay dawar
Nov 29, 2012
one word AWSOMEgot yesterday from flipkart in just 2 days really really awsome mp3 player in this price range.
gaurav rajput
Aug 16, 2012
awsome bass and sound qualityFirst of all flipkart you rock's .your service is fantastic and response of comstumer service is very very good.
Rahul Maney
Jul 25, 2012
A VFM product | Review after 1 year useBought this product from Flipkart almost a Year ago, purpose was a good MP3 player , when Running or travelling. This little rocker has not disappointed. Although i agree that it does not match the SONY but it does come pretty close. The build is strong , the display is clear and informative, the options very user friendly. Plus it has RADIO option with Preset (Which i Missed in my BB).
Sudipta Ghosh
Feb 3, 2012
Value for MoneyIt is a quality product at this price.
nagen bhai
Jan 24, 2012
excellent value for moneybuyed the cute little thing a month ago. overall a nice player with decent sound quality.
Neeraj Pandey
Aug 31, 2011
Go for it!I was pretty low on budget when I planned to buy a MP3 Player but now I realize it was a great decision.


text:
Marlowe Tall Bookcase
Decorative inset panels, beveled edges and a plinth base give our Marlowe bookcase a distinctive feel.
- Handcrafted of American hardwood with fine birch veneers
- Features 3 adjustable shelves, inset panels on sides, and adjustable glides beneath the plinth base
- Lightly distressed
- Furniture Tip Restraint included
- Wipe with a soft, dry cloth. Avoid direct sunlight and heat to protect the finish.
- Wood swatch is 6" square; free shipping
- GREENGUARD Gold Certified. Meets or exceeds stringent chemical emissions standards. Learn more.
Shown in white.
Marlowe Tall Bookcase
- Overall: 34"W x 14"D x 59½"H
- Shelf: 30"W x 12"D x 1"H
- Weight: 97 lbs.
Marlowe Tall Bookcase
Wood Swatch - White


text:
The Pregnancy Risk Assessment Monitoring System (PRAMS) from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and state health departments, collects state-specific, population-based data to monitor maternal and child health indicators. Each state samples women who have recently had a live birth by drawing from the birth certificate file. Data are weighted in order to provide representative estimates of a state?s population. Because the data are based on a weighted sample, PeriStats also displays 95% confidence intervals, provided by the CDC, to assist with interpretation of rates and comparisons (see also FAQ on confidence intervals).
For more on PRAMS methods and questionnaires, visit the PRAMS website.
Select PRAMS data are available on PeriStats, including the following subtopics, with many also available stratified by maternal race/ethnicity, maternal age, household income, and Medicaid status:


text:
Texas Architect Sept/Oct 2010: Design Awards
This issue highlights the 2010 TSA Design Award winners. The eleven featured projects range from the new Lance Armstrong Foundation headquarters (LIVESTRONG) in Austin to the Pearl Stable restoration in San Antonio. Also included are articles about Galveston's historic churches restored after damage from Hurricane Ike; Austin's Arthouse renovation and expansion; and a look at risk management--the perils of substitutions. Texas Architect is the official magazine of the Texas Society of Architects/AIA.
40 t e x a s a r c h i t e c t 9 / 1 0 2 0 1 0


text:
The environment in Madugandí is wrapped in color and mystery. It is a visual delight to view hundreds of homes made from wood and palm leaves, with colorfully dressed Guna children nearby. Unlike the Guna Yala region, little is known about these Indians, since they have not been an official indigenous territory for very long. That fact makes the village even more tranquil, with little influence from the modern world.
In this area you can purchase an authentic mola, handmade by the Guna women. This traditional art has received worldwide recognition for the beauty and quality of their handcraftmanship.
Madugandí is located approximately 90 kms east of Panama City. It is conformed by the following 12 communities: Akua Yala, Ibedi, Pintupu, Icandi, Piria, Cuinupdi, Nargandi, Ogobnawila, Diwar Sikua, Capandi, and Tabardi.
How to arrive
- Car: Take the Pan-American Highway heading east towards Darién until you reach Bayano. Contact the Guna there and decide which of the above-mentioned communities you wish to visit.
What to bring
- Water bottle
- Insect repellent
- Comfortable clothing
- Activities
- Observe flora and fauna
- Purchase authentic molas


text:
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Posted 11 December 2012 - 18:15
Posted 11 December 2012 - 23:43
ASTEROID FLYBY: Newly-discovered asteroid 2012 XE54 is flying through the Earth-Moon system today approximately 230 thousand km (0.6 LD) from Earth. The space rock is about 36 meters wide, a little smaller than the Tunguska impactor that leveled 800 square miles of Siberian forest in 1908. Using a remote-controlled telescope in New Mexico, astronomers Ernesto Guido and Nick Howes photographed 2012 XE54 streaking among the stars on Dec. 11th:
Guido and Howes dedicate this image to the memory of their longtime friend and colleague Giovanni Sostero.
This asteroid will not hit Earth, but it is close enough, and thus bright enough, for amateur astronomers to track using backyard telescopes. When Guido and Howes photographed it this morning, it was shining at magnitude +13.
Astronomers monitoring the asteroid might have noticed an unusual eclipse during the early hours of Dec. 11th. According to calculations made by P. Tricarico, 2012 XE54 "will likely cross the Earth's shadow, causing a partial eclipse of the asteroid a few hours before reaching its minimum distance with the Earth. Asteroids eclipsing during an Earth flyby are relatively rare, with the first known case of asteroid 2008 TC3 which was totally eclipsed just one hour before entering Earth's atmosphere over Sudan in 2008, and asteroid 2012 KT42 experiencing both an eclipse and a transit during the same Earth flyby in 2012."
Stay tuned for updates.
Source: SpaceWeather.com
Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:19
^ That's merely an unsupported theory -- not an established fact.
Other theories involve comets.
Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:11
Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:30
^ Witnesses who actually saw the object stated that it changed course a few times, before the explosion.
As the body neared the ground (forest), the bright body seemed to smudge, and then turned into a giant billow of black smoke, and a loud knocking (not thunder) was heard, as if large stones were falling, or artillery was fired. All buildings shook. At the same time the cloud began emitting flames of uncertain shapes.
It also left considerable radiation behind. (sound like an ice & rock comet ?)
After the event, the skies were lit up at night for days, hundreds of miles away.
At around 7:17 a.m. local time, Evenks natives and Russian settlers in the hills northwest of Lake Baikal observed a column of bluish light, nearly as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky.
Draw your own conclusions.