text:
Keyboards are one of the few areas in computing where technology appears to have receded rather than progressed. The first keyboards on computer systems used mechanical switches to detect the depression of the keys. As time passed, economics took over and cheaper alternatives to mechanical switches were found. The cheapest of these alternatives is the dome-switch; which took over as the mainstream technology. These dome-switches are by all accounts an inferior technology. Whilst not in the scope of this review, a full recounting of the benefits of mechanical switches is available: http://www.overclock...-keyboard-guide
Having researched thoroughly the available mechanical keyboards, and taking into account my bad track record with Razer products, I finally decided on Corsair's K90. Without further ado.
Courtesy of Corsair's product page
- Light, responsive Cherry MX Red mechanical switches for fast, efficient gaming action
45g actuation force
2mm to actuation and 4mm to bottom
Rated for 50 million operations
Gold contacts
- Tuned silicon dome key switches: F1 through F12, Esc, PrtScn, Scroll Lock, Pause/Break, Insert, Home, Page Up Page Down, Delete, and End
- Three banks of eighteen G Macro Keys with Macro Record and Bank Select hot keys
- 36Kb of on-board memory for storing up to three sets of eighteen G keys for gaming on the go
- Laser-etched, backlit keys with four illumination levels (off, 66%, 75%, and full illumination) selectable from the keyboard
- Six multimedia keys — Stop, Previous, Play/Pause, Next, Mute, Volume Up/Down — with Solid metal, weighted volume "drum roller"
- Windows Lock key for uninterrupted game play
- Metal top plate for increased strength, durability and rigidity
- USB pass-through connector giving easy access to a USB port on the back of the keyboard
- 2m non-tangle cable Adjustable feet tilt for optimum personalisation and positioning
The K90 is sold as a premium product, and first impressions of the packaging bear this idea out. The box is solid and has enough weight to feel like a quality product. Inside, the packing holds the keyboard firmly in place with plenty of protection from accidental damage during shipping.
Included in the package are a warranty card, a quick start guide, the detachable wrist rest and of course, the keyboard itself. The quick start guide is woefully inadequate; consisting of a large picture showing a USB plug being inserted into a port and a picture of the keyboard. The quick start guide fails to inform the user that the Corsair software is required in order to configure the macro functionality on the keyboard.
The Keyboard
First impressions of the keyboard are good. The keyboard feels sturdy and looks great. The cable provided connectivity is extremely sturdy and has two USB connectors to allow for a USB socket at the top of the keyboard. Also worth noting is the unique design of the keys on the board. They are positioned above the baseplate which gives the appearance that they are floating. Aesthetically this gives the keyboard a great look and in practicality should allow for much easier cleaning of the keyboard.
It's not until you plug in the keyboard and turn on your machine that the keyboard really begins to shine.. Quite literally. The blue back lighting provides a truly unique look. Each of the mechanical switches has a single blue LED shining up under the key providing a bright, solid blue back-light. Unfortunately, on keys that have multiple characters etched on them (i.e. 1 and !) the character at the top is strongly lit with the lower character lit up far more dimly. This small flaw, coupled with a similar lighting issue on the dome-switched keys, detracts from an outstanding aesthetic design.
On top of the standard keys, the K90 has a collection of media keys above the num pad. These media keys are attractive and well laid out, providing the basic functionality you would expect. There is a small metallic "drum roller" that allows for changing volume from the keyboard. The move from plastic media keys to metal drum is quite jarring at a touch, however the metal drum is a nice inclusion and the use of plastic media keys is not unexpected. The keyboard offers two more buttons for toggling the brightness of the back-lighting and a button to disable the start key button during gaming.
Finally, the K90 includes a collection of 18 macro buttons, with a toggle switch allowing for each button to have 3 macros bound to it for 54 macros in total. These buttons require the Corsair software in order to program, however once set these buttons remember the macros assigned to them and can be used on any computer without the software. Given the lack of Mac software, this means the macros can be configured on a Windows PC and used on a Mac.
Usage Impressions
I admit that coming into this review I was sceptical of the benefits of a mechanical keyboard as opposed to other keyboard technologies. It seemed unlikely that the simple change in switches would lead to a noteworthy change in usability or typing habits. I was wrong.
The mechanical keys are outstanding. My typing speed has increased dramatically. While I could not tell you why this is, I suspect it is due to the much faster rebound and the significantly lighter actions of the keys. Having typed the entire review above with this keyboard, I find myself wondering how I last so long with such a mediocre keyboard previously. The texture and feel of the keyboard is outstanding and the action of the keys makes you want to press them repeatedly just for the novelty of feeling their action.
Unfortunately, this brings me to the largest short falling of the keyboard. This keyboard is not entirely mechanical. As noted above in the technical specification, all of the escape, F (function), G (macro) and the key cluster above the direction arrows are in fact dome-switches.
This leads to a glaring and frankly disappointing difference when using these keys. Typing a word is brisk, snappy and feels great. Pressing the delete key to remove a wayward letter just feels.. Smooshy.. It seems such a silly area to try and save costs. The average user willing to spend the money for this kind of keyboard isn't going to object to the extra few dollars required to make the entire keyboard mechanical. Corsair provide a justification for these choices by saying that each of the keys that use dome-switches are keys that you want the full action to be used before the key activates (press it all the way down before the computer registers it). In practicality, it just feels cheap. As noted above, it also takes away from the aesthetics of the keyboard.
The K90 represents Corsair's first crack at a mechanical keyboard. It's a worthy first attempt and represents a great buy if you can get past the hybrid nature of the dome-switch/mechanical-switch key blend. It is worth noting that with the premium market this keyboard targets, corsair ask a premium price. At $160 Australian, the K90 is far and away the most expensive mechanical keyboard on the market. I would be inclined to say however, that it is well worth it with outstanding aesthetics and a great feel.
It is also worth mentioning the K60 keyboard offered by Corsair. The K60 is $30 cheaper and is the same mechanical keyboard as the K90. The K60 lacks the keyboard width wrist rest (replacing it with a WASD wrist rest), blue LEDs and the programmable macro keys. In all other regards it is the same keyboard. If you are looking to save some money or don't need these extra features, the K60 is well worth your time.
- Great aesthetics and build quality
- Outstanding touch and feel
- Strong blue back-lighting
- Programmable macro keys
- Comfortable (removable) wrist rest
- 2 year warranty
- Expensive
- Not entirely mechanical
- A noted issue with LED lights failing
24/03/2013 - Corrected the address discussing the pros/cons of the various switches.
Edited by articuno1au, 23 March 2013 - 20:25.


text:
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
- Goran Kimovski
- Vancouver Bc
- Canada
Senior Technology Consultant, OperatingDev.com
This conversation is closed.
What is the true value (if any) of organized schooling?
There are so many people suggesting that schools kill creativity, learning is innate & children can learn by themselves, no real life skills are acquired in the current school system, etc. -- the list is really long! If this is all true and we all agree that organized schooling needs big reform, I think we have to step back and ask the ultimate question about the value of organized schooling!
I make a distinction between learning, education and schooling -- with schooling being an attempt to govern/institutionalize education and education representing formalized learning. I think this is important as often people refer to school as the only place where education happens, ignoring programs like the Khan Academy or not to mention the millions of homeschoolers in US alone. They also confuse education with learning, but Sugata Mitra's child-driven education shows that the learning that happens when kids are given tools and left on their own devices is neither formal, nor it can be governed. (He uses the term education tad wrongly, though I suppose with purpose as his is an example of bringing learning and education together.)
I would like to challenge the TED community to think about the value of their own schooling or the value their kids currently in the school system are getting and share their thoughts here!
Toni Powell
Mar 23 2011: Oh my, I could write a book about this.
- +6
I homeschooled / almost unschooled my 5 kids for various periods of their lives. Some got most of the time at home and some got only a few years. They are now all grown up and have left home.
I am in a good place to have seen how this works...
We mostly homeschooled because we wanted to raise confident, resilient, caring and curious kids who would make a contribution to their world.
We did not do it to improve them academically, we believed that if they felt good about themselves and others that they could learn anything later on. It was an experiment that we entered into nervously.
We read all we could as almost no one in Australia was homeschooling then. Could it be true that left alone kids would learn on their own. Sounded mad but surprise surprise.... it worked.
Keeping them home for much of their school life made for kids who can teach themselves. On his first year of school our then 14 year old aced the national science exam coming in the top 6%... having done almost no formal science and reading no textbooks. I am still baffled by that! He had a reading age of 32 when he was 12 and we had no focus on academics!
There are so many stories to tell about this... best of all we had virtually no teenage angst, relationship stress and our kids are amazing adults with great marriages and two are making significant contributions to their world.
They are all extraordinarily creative, lateral thinkers and socially confident. They are all very caring and turned into wonderful friends.
4 of them have children and all of them are unschooling or homeschooling their own kids.
I have one question:
"Why do people keep thinking that socializing is best done with a small group of immature people in one age group?" It does not make sense. Our kids were socialized by being with people of all ages and nationalities. They have friends across all age groups.
Mar 23 2011: toni,
Your 'controlled group study' was very interesting, thank you. I suspect the genes your children received (and the people who contributed them) had a lot to do with your children's success. Congratulations, and thank you for improving the gene pool.Mar 25 2011: Hi toni!!
Thanks for your post!
I have a two year old daughter, and considering options, would love to home school, but think I can't if I have to work…
Can you pls send me a list of the bibliography you read/recommend?
jag .
Mar 25 2011: Toni, WRITE THE BOOK,i want to pre order it lol.
- 0
Mar 25 2011: ha ha... I am so mad busy trying to support myself (ie with paying jobs) while I make a film with my eldest daughter that writing a book is the last thing on my mind. Maybe I will get there one day.
Hailey and I have made a few award winning shorts together and are now tackling a feature doc on gratitude.
Hailey is the one who was homeschooled the longest as I got sick for a few years and the other kids were in school on and off but Hailey was already left home by the time that happened.
Dick Deason
Apr 6 2011: "Why do people keep thinking that socializing is best done with a small group of immature people in one age group?" It does not make sense. Our kids were socialized by being with people of all ages and nationalities. They have friends across all age groups.
- +1
Concur 100%. I grew up in Brick and Mortar Schools (60's-70's), but had more opportunities than most to "socialize" with a large stratification of world society. Participation in multiple sports, a variety of recreation, travel across the US, and working with my parents, at home as well as professionally, catalyzed interactions that would never have happened in the best of Brick and Mortar schools. My sons are receiving the same socialization format, and are consistently viewed as highly mature, introspective, and well educated.Mar 16 2011: Lets Just start showing TED talks at Schools and also turn this into a systemic program which will be recognizes by government and integrated into local education systems.
Riley Murray
Mar 21 2011: YEAH!!! (I have learned more from TED in 3 nights of video binge-ing than from 3 months of school)
- +1
Peter Myers
Mar 21 2011: On with the binge!!!! ;-) So true.Mar 10 2011: Maybe the "educational system" (which I'd like to extend to include higher education) was progressive for it's time, maybe not. The point is that it no longer is, because we can recreate all videos and lectures and interactive tutorials at zero marginal cost.
- +1
On top of which, a lot of what they teach you is just wrong, and must be unlearned. 1.) There is no separation of church and state, because a religion is just a way of life, which is what school forces upon kids. 2.) The division between knowledge disciplines is often arbitrary, and knowledge is often not hierarchically structured. For example, at what age should we teach a kid that his brain is more plastic now than it ever will be again? 3.) There is no separation between economics, politics, and religion, because money is a vote upon the allocation of scarce social resources, which means poor people actually have no vote, so we live in a plutarchy. 4.) The legal system protects the wealthy and punishes the poor, and the psychopaths at the top of the wealth hierarchy have little incentive to share with the poor, because wealth doesn't rot. (5) Academia benefits from artificial scarcity by requiring huge time/money costs for people to obtain technical degrees, when in 2011 it should be free for people to be able to learn to do what they want to do, and iit should be free for people to show that they can do what they are fully capable of doing.
Way back before we could afford all this nonsense, we had apprenticeships, because after millions of years of evolution, we basically learn by doing. On top of which, how can you teach someone to do what's never been done before?
You would not entrust a fascist, unintelligent person with educating your child. Yet, that is what our educational system now does, because people who became teachers need to eat, too, and our current political/economic system doesn't have an answer for those people, whose jobs have been made obsolete by technology.
Mar 23 2011: I thoroughly enjoyed that entire post.Feb 16 2011: I'll start by answering my own question first ;-)
I think the value of schooling is in its potential to redefine the institution into a community hub bristling with activities where anyone, not just kids of a certain age, can come and have fun, learn, connect! Hubs like these already exist here in Canada and I believe many other places too -- they're called Community Centres. These are places I go with my family to learn ice skating together, have fun swimming with my kids on a rainy day, provide my daughter with an ability to learn how to play a guitar for an affordable cost, connect with my friends as we're waiting in the hall while our daughters have fun in a rhythmic gymnastic class... It saddens me that we make almost no use of the school -- with exception of the playground -- outside the school hours!
If schools and community centres merge, I believe there is much that will change by itself for how schooling works. From bell schedule, to age grouping, to subject silos, none of those would work in an activity hub. Teachers, students, parents, the community, they will all have an active role in the kids (and everyone else's) education.
What do you think?
Tim Colgan
Mar 9 2011: Great idea Goran. Maybe they could replace the temple/church/synagogue/mosque/etc as well. A true universal community center.
- +2
Liza B
Mar 10 2011: There are some models out there that combine what we consider to be traditional school functions and those of community centers. They're called community schools, and they attempt to make schools a space for families, not just students, by providing services like citizenship classes, early child hood family education, English language classes, job trainings and career services, a community library, a parent resource room and more. I know that this is a model that some schools in the Chicago area are trying, but I think it's a movement that is gaining momentum.Mar 12 2011: Goran, I find your ideas really compelling: expanding the notion of school to include a much wider range of activities and community (especially parental) involvement. Not only could this help transform the emotional environment of school for children, but it might also be a better investment of public money and resources.
- +2
One idea I'd like to throw out in answer to your question of formal school value is that students are exposed to a wider variety of subjects than what they might choose to explore on their own. In fact, I see this as the principal danger of plans such as Ken Robinson's where the child is the primary director of their own studies. We all grow and mature when faced with challenges that don't "interest" us (at least not at first!).
Kait Kenel
Mar 13 2011: I agree with thi, and I think it sort of also has to do with the preparation to function in society well i.e. You're not going to have very many opportunities to pick and choose which parts of a job you want to do, and what better way to understand that than to teach it in a safe, educational environment? And to that effect, it is completely true that you never know if you will truly ever dislike/like something until you try it! It keeps our minds open to new things! However, this is all not to say that our current form of education is providing us with pissibly a 'full-bodied' area of study, and perhaps there are improvements to be made in these areas in order to give people a better sense of a fulfilling education?Mar 15 2011: Independent and personal learning (learner-lead, child-directed) does not mean tunnel-vision learning. In fact, it's hard to think of any teacher with a comprehensive knowledge of all subjects.
- +1
With the advent of online collaborative spaces, sharing ideas does not have to wait until its allocated slot in the timetable in a particular place with particular people.
The trick will be investigating all the opinions and arguments, evidence and theories out there in a way that draws out the relevant and identifies the irrelevant or wildly opinionated or inaccurate.
Peter Myers
Mar 21 2011: The beauty is the trick is not = The Learner leaders lead themselves to the relevant.
- +1
Reflective Lernerleaderingly,
PeterMar 13 2011: I completely agree-- schools, especially public schools, serve important roles as institutes of education, and also as institutions that gather and bring together the community. I work in a community school in an underprivileged and undeserved community, and see the positive effects that the school, which brings together teachers, staff, health care workers, social services personnel, community members, and students have on the holistic well being of the community.
I am trying not to resent the above comments that organized schooling may not be necessary. I agree with Sir Robinson that our systems of education need reforms, however, I don't think we can systematically dismiss the good that comes from our public schools. Schools are places of social as well as intellectual learning, and our hardworking teachers are fostering students' creativity within the confines of the American educational system every day.
I strongly believe that with some creative thinking our public schools can mend some of their mistakes, and foster even more growth among their students.
Mar 13 2011: Do you believe the widely-held view that, in America, a child can only get as good an education as his/her parents can afford him/her, is accurate?Mar 21 2011: Ellen, just a clarifying point: Sir Robinson says clearly that school reform is not the answer, total transformation is.Mar 23 2011: I agree about the community centers merging with schools. I find that ad-hoc organizations (which are really just informal gatherings with a general purpose - but no leader) are very effective, both for learning and a variety of other uses. I especially like your use of the phrase "subject silos"
However something as organic as that cannot be compulsory, which is the biggest problem facing education - how to ensure that everyone receives an education while simultaneously making them want one. As soon as it becomes optional, some will not attend which is a dangerous proposition to a country that wants to entertain the idea of equality in all of its citizens.Jun 25 2011: I love the idea of a community center. I actually discussed having one instead of school and church and all of the other areas of life that segregate society. I beleive they would be more efficient because they would help provide all of the functions all other sociallizing organizations provide, but in one place, so it is more likely for the community to put in a helping hand (that isn't just money), and for the community to accept everyone's differences. Segregating everyone into age groups isn't too different from segregating them based on sex or race. I was much farther ahead of my peers for most of my grade school education, and had they allowed me to further my education by being in a class that was challenging for me, instead of a class that fit my age, I would be even more educated and mature, as well as prepared for the world because I had actually faced a challenge while growing up. *Input that isn't needed follows here* No child left behind is ridiculous, as it tries to put the top of the top with the bottom of the bottom, when children should be able to be in the class based on the education they need, and if they want to be in an even harder class they should be allowed, but if they can not succeed in that class they should be moved down the the next class instead of the teacher just passing them so their own class averages don't drop. The bell curve in education isn't just a theory, it's been proven. Everyone is on a different level, and you can't flatten it out because then some kids get the short end of the stick, and others can't catch up.Mar 11 2011: Right now, school serves at least 3 purposes: education, socialization, and daytime childcare. Any substitute system needs to take all of these into account.
Organized schools have two economic purposes: education of the populace and workforce, and freeing up adult labor for use during school hours.
Mar 15 2011: You forgot to add 'sometime political tool'
David Lane
Feb 23 2011: In the U.S., the motivation for legislating mandatory education was not entirely altruistic. John Taylor Gatto's book, THE UNDERGROUND HISTORY OF AMERICAN EDUCATION, presents very convincing evidence that many of the 'founding fathers' of public education were bigoted phrenologists whose goals were to maintain and exacerbate a rigid, class-based consumer culture. Carnegie, who spent his own money funding the establishment of so-called "public education," believed a primary role of public schools was to separate the children of the poor & immigrant populations from their parents. For him & other privileged white men, these children had to be FORCED to go to school because they were too ignorant to know what was best for them. The poor were poor because they were immoral - and public education would show them the error of their ways and the benefits of obedience to consumerism.
- +4
Public schools were obedience factories: take this class, move when this bell rings, do as you're told, stop talking, be quiet, do your homework, do this because I know it's best for you...
The problem today is that this corruption within the foundations of the public school system has never been rooted out. It is now systemic and there is no antidote. For the most part, public schools are still obedience factories. They exist primarily to provide industry with acquiescent laborers who do not question or challenge the status quo, automatons who believe what they are told and obey. They only thing we have changed is that there is no longer any industry.
There is no positive value in organized schooling - unless, as you suggest in your own answer, students and families become invested in organizing their own learning. Until then, the state will always have ulterior motivations for requiring mandatory indoctrination. The modern world calls for independent thinkers who know no "box," much more than think outside it. The only solution is to abandon the system.
Mar 6 2011: I agree. Much of what you mentioned is rooted in exploiting the behavior psychology of human beings. Many can affirm eloquently on the missing element to traditional mainstream education -- creativity and independent thought, etc. -- but would omit the "why" and "how" compulsory education became the way it was. Interesting you mention Gatto's book. I'd also recommend similar but condensed books: "Weapons of Mass Instruction" and "The Leipzig Connection" and also more notably "Deliberate Dumbing Down of America" by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt who previously worked as Senior Policy Advisor in the U.S. Department of Education during President Reagan's time.
I've seen many folks on TED founding schools based on newer ways of learning and teaching. I'd say they light the future way in respect to education, because as Gatto had said, the current educational system is an autonomous organism that is resistant to being reinvented from within.
Liza B
Mar 10 2011: I think stating that organized schools have no positive value is putting it too strongly. The public school system, perhaps created and streamlined for dubious purposes, does one very important thing for children: it provides a space to learn no matter who you are, where you come from, or how much money your parents make. While alternative models of education, like homeschooling or experimental schools, can provide innovative avenues for children to pursue learning, they can't provide to that to everyone. Not all children have parents in a situation to education them at home, or live in areas with access to alternative schools, but the public school system does provide for them. It has been set up to welcome all children, and that is its greatest value.Mar 21 2011: I'd like to reference the Royal Society for the Advancement of the Arts (a British organization similar to TED).
- +2
In the video, the speaker mentions something - the fact that today's schooling is still based on the outdated industrial revolution. Whereas I wouldn't go so far as to say the parallel englightenment period thinking should be done away with, there are some considerations that should be made. The speaker made the following points:
1.) Public schools were designed for the industrial revolution and in the image of them.
2.) You've got factory type schedules (Think how bells mimic shift-changes for factory workers)
3.) You've got compartmentalized departments (For example, is statistics math or social science? Knowledge doesn't have an intrinsic line of demarcation and we should be emphasizing interdisciplinary thinking in todays age.
4.) Students are created in batches (classroom) where their - apparently - most important commonality is the year of manafacture (See how students are grouped together as class of 2011, or 2012. This inadequately explains real learning differences between students of the same age).
5.) Finally, no student is the same and a society that aims at creating a standardized human population will not survive, especially today. Ford's assembly works great with building cars but when it comes to people, you quickly begin to realize that some come pre-built, some with parts missing, some even without instructions. Some of the same parts go in different places for different students. It's like saying a one-size fits all t-shirt is going to fit an octopus.
To answer the question, I do have concerns about publicly mandated schooling, and about the way such programs fit into democracies in general. There is way too much of a distinction between school and life. The two aren't naturally separated and to doing so just increases the tension of the student.Mar 11 2011: Lets consider the primary purpose of schooling: to prepare for later life. Quite rightly, the distinction from learning and education has been made; kids are, undoubtedly, capable of digesting books in their bedroom as easily as in class. However, it does represent a FORM of education and learning that cannot be acquired elsewhere: inane rule following, tolerating others without any respite from their presence and, to a degree, leading a life separate to your home life. These can only be acquired in a formal school environment.
Additionally, even the stifling of creativity could be seen as an essential part of preparation for a life as a cog in society's machine.
Practical issues must also be considered. Governments have an interest in how many people attend school. the more that receive an education, the better; this may be hard to ensure in a home school system.
Home schooling is flawed for a variety of reasons. Parents may not be proficient teachers; parents may not have the time and parents may not care enough to ensure their child's education.
Mar 11 2011: I agree. I don't think anybody would deny that the school system needs continuous review and modification, much like any other organization, but I am concerned that if the Ken Robinsons of this world have their way we will finish up throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Putting a bunch of kids together and letting them be 'creative' doesn't do a lot to teach them how to manage money later in life, or, as Mike Carr says elsewhere in this thread, figure out how much topsoil is needed to put down a lawn in their back yard. I went through a traditional school system where we memorized multiplication tables and historical dates and weren't allowed to answer back to the teacher, but I managed to come out of it with a lifelong love of reading and learning. I don't think it is the structure or syllabus that makes the difference, so much as the teachers and parents.
Mar 27 2011: I would love to know where in any of Ken Robinsons talks he suggests that "Putting a bunch of kids together and letting them be 'creative'" will "teach them how to manage money later in life".
The whole point of personalized learning is to maximize the individual capability of that person, which translates directly into economy.
As a practical example, if you discovered that your son had a natural talent and passion for music he could therefore excel beyond the average rate and eventually compose or even become a session player. amongst many other entrepreneurial opportunities. Do you think that taking him away from his passion and teaching him the intricacies of topsoil and it's applications would be of much use?
Now, if you are concerned about the emphasis on a single subject or a narrow syllabus would lack the comprehensive base of knowledge provided by a traditional syllabus then why not simply be a parent and teach your child how to ration his moneys like any other parent would. Too many people lay their children's futures in the school system and take no responsibility.
Also, just because you have an anecdotal experience where you successfully came out of school and still wanted to read and learn speaks of absolutely nothing for anyone else. I personally LOVE reading and learning, but I failed school so badly they eventually kicked me out. Having that said, in 10th grade, I held the state grade in Biology and won every award in English creative writing. I found those subjects interesting, however Math could never fix my attention for more than a minute.
Everybody is different Revett. The current system offers no personalization whatsoever. It may have worked for your but will not necessarily work well for others.
Mar 27 2011: >Also, just because you have an anecdotal experience where you successfully came out of school and still wanted to read and learn speaks of absolutely nothing for anyone else. . (snip) . . It may have worked for your but will not necessarily work well for others.<
I learned more in 20 minutes pulling books off the shelf at random in the regional central library or one of the city's museums where I often spent my days, than I would all week in high school. Certainly I was fortunate to live in NYC instead of some small rural village without these institutions. The internet has leveled to playing field in that regard. I was graduated because I passed the regents tests, accomplished just by studying the review books. My point is I managed to learn what I have in spite of the education system, not because of it.Mar 27 2011: You are putting words into my mouth. Of course I would nurture my son's skills if he showed talent in a particular area. But my point is that those who would (yet again) experiment with so-called personalized learning are in danger of screwing up the teaching of the basics. Without basic knowledge of the three R's, nobody can function in this world, and basic stuff requires some repetition and rote learning. Suck it up.
My remark about the way I was taught was intended to illustrate the sentence that followed: namely that I believe it is the teachers and the parents rather than the learning' style' that make for a good education.
Finally, go back to my original premise: "I don't think anybody would deny that the school system needs continuous review and modification, much like any other organization...". Challenging and, in some case, modifying the way things are done is always healthy, but making radical changes such as are constantly being proposed -- and have been for the past 50 years -- will almost certainly have unintended consequences. Many of the school system's current problems are the result of experiments and changes that have been made already.
Peter Myers
Mar 21 2011: Matthew - "Home schooling is flawed for a variety of reasons. Parents may not be proficient teachers; parents may not have the time and parents may not care enough to ensure their child's education"
- +5
Parents don't teach - Children learn
Mar 27 2011: PreciselyMar 25 2011: "Home schooling is flawed for a variety of reasons. Parents may not be proficient teachers; parents may not have the time and parents may not care enough to ensure their child's education."
If there are flaws in homeschooling, these aren't the ones. No uncaring parent is going to take on the gargantuan task of homeschooling. It's way easier to put them on the big yellow bus every morning than it is to invest your life in helping them learn. As for proficiency in teaching, a homeschooling parent is a tutor working individually with each child at his or her own pace with a love for and a stake in the future of that child that no classroom teacher could ever have.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above comment that it's the children who do the learning in the first place. It's my job as a homeschooling parent to provide the resources, the direction and the assistance needed for my children to educate themselves.
Vijay Raman
Mar 27 2011: Much more choice and diversity in education will emerge in the next decade.
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Public schools will begin to serve the community better by being unbundled; half of us would synthesize a personalized road-map for our children by selecting a few school programs and a variety of other relevant/innovative programs/resources, while the other half would continue to choose full time school for our children for a variety of reasons. Effective school programs/teachers (the baby v bath water) measured by attendance would factor to shape funding...Mar 28 2011: A school model founded on the principal that all human beings are not created equal, all humans have varying competences; have vast and subjective interests, capabilities, motivation, etc. would increase the likelihood for success for more children.
A system that teaches critical thinking, problem solving, self-reliance and inter-dependence would increase the likelihood for success and possibly happiness, for more children.
Ray Jefferd
Mar 20 2011: Schools as presently constituted are not working at most levels. I recommend parents should read "Dumbing Us Down" by John Gatto. It may seem radical to some but I think that nearly all K-12 schools should simply be closed. Sadly I find that school architecture and prison architecture look very similar, why is that? I recently seen a poster, printed I believe by a local school district. The headline read, 40% of children in Grades 4 to 7 reported being bullied. That is the self-reporting number. What is the real number? Much higher I suspect. The schools would be an even bigger disaster if not for a lot of very dedicated teachers, working within a disfunctional system. Children need less schooling not more. Age segregation is the source of many of the problems in schools. Teacher centric vs Student centric is another major problem, schools and curriculums are designed for the needs for the convenience of teachers and the education bureaucracy, not to meet the real needs of students. I urge parents to think about educating their children themselves with the support of friends and family. Throw out the standard curriculum it is totally counter productive to real learning. Let children follow their interests, they get bored easily so they won't be inactive for long. It is my experience that for learning to occur, the material must have meaning and context. The standardize curriculums have neither for every student past and present that I know. Trust your kids, spend time with them, it doesn't really matter what you do, just be around them, for when they need you, they are very capable of independent and self-directed learning. Get off their back, stop nagging. Just be there for them. If you cut through it all, if both parents are working at jobs outside the home the result is minimal time with their children, these children get that they are just not that important to their parents. Think about it.Mar 19 2011: Just watched Khan's video and it points out several important points that were key in my choice to homeschool my children. Slow/Gifted is a snapshot, not a permanent state. No Swiss Cheese holes in learning. And more.
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I very much like, and think appropriate, the shift that Khan mentions - to humanize the classroom and use that time to work out rough spots, including having the kids help each other. A school that offered that would be a useful sort of schooling. And it would involve the kids in the process instead of them being more passive receptors and regurgitators.
I found this post/speech by a valedictorian intriguing - http://americaviaerica.blogspot.com/2010/07/coxsackie-athens-valedictorian-speech.html. She gets it.
Mar 21 2011: Hello Jean,
Would you like to live in New Zealand in a home education village?
Mar 23 2011: Pretty sure that depends on the village, Peter ; )
Jon Wolfe
Mar 22 2011: Learning the pecking order.
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Mar 23 2011: And if you're good, manipulating it. Amazing how complex those interactions were when kids are all shoved into a small space with little to do or dream of and no outstanding social structure!Mar 21 2011: I friend of mine just shared this with me: http://www.slate.com/id/2288402 (Why Preschool Shouldn't Be Like School -- New research shows that teaching kids more and more, at ever-younger ages, may backfire.)
I'd like to share few excerpts here as they're highly relevant to this discussion:
"Direct instruction really can limit young children's learning. Teaching is a very effective way to get children to learn something specific. But it also makes children less likely to discover unexpected information and to draw unexpected conclusions."
"That means, it's more important than ever to give children's remarkable, spontaneous learning abilities free rein. That means a rich, stable, and safe world, with affectionate and supportive grown-ups, and lots of opportunities for exploration and play. Not school for babies."Mar 21 2011: Our family has a broad range of educational experience (public, private, homeschool) and we are always looking for ways to expand educational experience. When the children were young we put a large world map on the wall in the dinning room and would constantly refer to it during dinner discussion, as a result my American children have an uncharacteristically strong understanding about world geography. When we traveled, my wife would read aloud books that had themes connected with the particular regional that we were traveling through. These books were not travel books, but literature. We once took an entire vacation to explore the "underground railroad" after reading Uncle Tom's CabinMar 21 2011: I find this applicable to so many other subjects! While I can see how it would be hard to run some chemistry experiments outside the classroom, I still remember how some of my early exposure to it made me interested to learn more -- I still like to put bread in my mouth and chew it for a long time, resisting the urge to swallow, so I can get the sweetness that comes as sugars get formed by the chemical reactions in the mouth ;-)
Overcoming the false environment problem and extending the learning outside the classroom is a major issue that requires involvement from the students, the parents, the community really. For example, to keep presence of French in our home (and we're already bi-lingual with English and Macedonian) we're turning the language into one we use to play. With a bit of an effort on my side, I am trying to remember few words and learn few sentences myself and then challenge my daughter to teach me more by playing guessing or matching games. This past weekend we did a pretend game calling some girl from Paris on the "phone" and my daughter spent 3-4 minutes talking in French with her in an unscripted conversation -- it turned out the girl was poor and we needed to make some cloths for her, but the materials were on a different planet ;-)
I'd love to hear more ideas how to keep the experience in the schools spill out of its walls. Rather than turning to homeschooling, I would like to help schools reinvent themselves so they can offer rich learning experiences and become environments where the authentic self is appreciated and the learning is the goal!
END ... (3 of 3)Mar 21 2011: I attended high school in a very rural area. 99.98% of my school body was Caucasian. Not only that, but by the time I graduated, I was the only senior who had participated in four years of art class. There was no cultural variety, the closest I experienced was the disparity between Catholics and Non-denominational Christians. Oddly enough though, this fostered a sense of creativity in me personally. This austere setting gave me a drive to want to be better than any of my class mates, I wanted to transgress these boundaries we all lived by.
I realized–at about the time of exiting secondary education–that organized schooling was truly only a way of reinforcing conventional knowledge and setting some form of standards to live by. Unfortunately, I'm not able to speak from the viewpoint of someone who has experience growing up in an urban setting. The cultural variety, and hopefully the availability of more than 5 AP classes would more than likely foster a much more creative student body.
Even having said all of this, I believe that truly great teachers, those who can magnify these "standards" imposed by boards and governments can really be the true savior to this endemic.
Mar 23 2011: Too bad we are rather poor at finding these truly great teachers. I have no doubt though, that they exist :)Mar 20 2011: the true value of organized schooling is just that, its organized into manageable chunks of time so that we can pretend to follow a daily routine. the way things are going now in the world, with around the clock outsourcing, cheap labor and virtually free and excellent modes of education and training, tables have turned on the system of education itself. We should have greater international collaboration between schools around the world now, we are no longer a country, we are one species, we can communicate on skype and twitter and video chat with whomever we want, the barriers have been broken forever. time for educational institutes (from kindergarten to university level) to accept the technology and move ahead. Students should decide their own syllabus based on current trends and industry requirements, a modular approach, abolish the fixed university syllabus (univeral courses).
Amy Gleason
Mar 15 2011: I think that education has been institutionalized to the point where kids are losing interest and not gaining what they need from the experience. I have 3 bright kids at home who have spent more time sitting in a desk doing worksheets than any other task. They are lukewarm about their experiences in school, because the routine has become so monotonous. I agree with Robinson that school is so output-based in a way that is very limiting to a child's potential. I dislike hearing that schools are cutting programs that kids so desperately need to stay interested and challenged through using their body or a different part of their brain. The way we educate children needs to change!
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Mar 16 2011: I completely agree. I just had a conversation with an English teacher who has over 170 students. Her school district is now making her give weekly email updates to the parents about their childrens' grades, and they are now required to keep the grades online and available for the parents, as well as updated weekly.
So, we used to trust our teachers with our children. Instead we have bogged them down with meaningless tasks. I can see communicating with parents at parents' requests and more often than every 6-9 weeks through report cards. To have to send an email to 170-250 parents (some may be divorced or separated) every week, and compose it in a professional way, that's either going to turn into form letters, or it's going to take 10-15 minutes per email. Add on 5 minutes per student for weekly grading reports being input into school computers to post online and we'll be generous and call it 20 minutes total. 20x170 is 3400 minutes or more than 56 hours PER WEEK. Feel free to knock it down to 10 minutes per student instead of 20 since those form letters will show up very soon. So only a mere 28 hours a week on frivolous duties.
Now imagine what great lesson that teacher could have spent her time on. Imagine how much more time she could have spent giving thoughtful feedback on writing papers or essay responses. ALL gone. She now has to hand out workbook assignments or get them to write short paragraph answers to questions instead of full-on research papers or essays about the last novel they read, etc., or in some other way eliminate excellent teaching with mediocre teaching because her bosses are morons.
My point is that many teachers are feeling the same way as we are.
Mar 16 2011: Scott, I agree with you! Just because we have technology, we are asking teachers to do extra work. It just does not make sense. We need to use technolog wisely. Just suppose if every email message that we recieve on the Internet were letters from the postal carriers. Our homes would be full of letters, and unfortunately we will not have the time to read all of our letters. Our trash containers would be full, right? Principals or superintendents should not provide extra work to teachers unless they have experienced the process themselves.VanceFeb 27 2011: Kima,
In structured learning environments, students learn to:
-meet someone else's expectations
-meet deadlines
-function in conjunction with their peers
Feb 27 2011: -in classes-indoor,outdoor, experimental--in groups, students learn from each other, collaboration. But I don't know how structured it has to be. Depends on the students.
--the question few people ask is--do kids want to be educated. I would say no. Being a student is a choice. Something has turned kids off from learning. It is laborious, a chore, boring to them. You cant teach somebody who doesn't want to be taught who doesn't care.
So how do we get kids to care, to be curious, to love learning. I feel that they need to be outside in the environments related to the topic at hand. But administration, often the same people trying to tear down education and privatize it--throw up obstacles and reject experiential learning. They want order order order, structure--its kinda fascist. And kids don't respond well to fascism.Mar 10 2011: Children can also gain confidence and skills as they interact with peers. They learn how to handle problems. They learn how they are in dealing with adults or authority figures. And they learn how it is to be away from mom and dad for a time. Public school isn't the only place these things could be learned, and poor lessons can be learned in the same arena - they could learn to feel inferior as they interact with peers, etc. I have heard of a child whose self-confidence was destroyed by a teacher.
I've seen many positives in my children attending public school, which they've only done 25% of the time, but for a positive experience, a parent needs to be watchful, attentive, engaged with what's going on with the child at school.
Children should not go to public school too early - age 8 is early enough.Jul 24 2011: The education in public schooling my not be the the best. But, it provides the basis of social communications and I weigh this as important if not more than the quality of schooling.Mar 30 2011: While we are on this topic of education, I found this to be amazing: http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110329/ts_yblog_thelookout/for-12-year-old-astrophysics-prodigy-the-skys-the-limit. This kid is 12 years old and has an IQ of 170! My question is...is he the product of organized schooling?
Jun 25 2011: IQ isn't necessarily tought, it's innate. It's the ability your brain has. At least that's what I have been tought by this organized schooling...If I'm wrong correct me because I'd rather be educated for what's right, than just thinking I knwo what's right.Mar 28 2011: It can´t be reasonably argued that traditional schooling has no value. It can´t be reasonably arued that homeschooling or unschooling have no value. We have too many incredible success stories that come from each of the myriad paths. At the very least, the institutions have the key elemnents of space, shelter and resources, not to mention the people who care happen to be in these institutions. It´s a question of evolution, or I should say an answer. Evolving ourselves and allowing our institutions to evolve. There is no good reason why my alma matter can´t instantly and incredibly morph into a learning explosion with the tools we have to offer at hand. Our system is outdated, there is no question and the kids in our schools don´t act the way you, I or their parents want them to. Remember though that the most important thing still exists, and that´s that they do want to go. Even if it´s solely for the company, they still want to go. They just don´t want to go and be force fed. Just like you and me, they (I should say we) want to do what we want to do, and we don´t lke it when we can´t. All it takes is a little breathing room, maybe a little kick from the outside. Maybe a little help from the passionate writers that present here, maybe the right tool? But I think it´s really just a little more room to be who we are.Mar 27 2011: Organized schooling is to me like any other energy. Neutral. For instance, the voice is neutral but it can carry negative words and ideas or loving words and ideas. The value will be based on the values at the top.
PeaceMar 26 2011: It is more or less impossible to deny that schools and colleges are serving a great purpose in our lives. In addition to education that we receive or try to receive its is incredibly important for social learning. We are all interdependent on each other and social interactions are an imperative part of our life. Now there are some clear changes that need to happen in the schooling of our children. Thinking must be emphasized over rote memorization, there cannot be too much emphasis on that. Additionally, the children that excel should not be targeted by other as nerds and bullied around, there needs to be a system to prevent that from happening. We cannot allow punishment for being good at what you're supposed to do. Teachers need a lot more training in helping the students that require more time to comprehend certain topics. Khan Academy is dead on that just because you receive an 80 an exam does not you fully understand at 20% you're still missing an important chunk of the topic. These are things that need to be debated and really brought into light. There should not be spending cuts in education, that is absurd. Especially today when our country is going through a real crisis in education. It is a disgrace and absolutely disgusting that today teachers are facing lay offs and their measly salaries are being labeled extravagant. It is the limit of irrationality.Mar 25 2011: Ultimately, I believe that education needs to be totally reconstructed. My organization is doing a lot of work in redefining education and creating the next generation of leaders. We need to create intellectual communities that radically revolutionize our world and our communities.Mar 25 2011: As a current college student, I feel both empowered and limited by my current education. I feel grateful for the incredible diversity of courses I have been able to take, and the larger world view I now see as a result of my liberal arts education. However, I also feel frustrated, when I am particularly passionate about a subject and there is not flexibility in the curriculum to explore areas that interest me more; I am also frustrated when we are forced to learn topics that do not apply to fields we are interested in.
To me, there is a lot of value in organized education in that it is the most efficient way we know of to educate the majority of people (although there are certainly great alternatives out there). I feel that students should be encouraged to search for outside resources and given opportunities to explore their passions. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to embark on any sort of auto-didactic work, but they should be encouraged as much as possible along the way.
jag .
Mar 25 2011: Bad Side: For me, as a uni student one of the values of organised schooling is fuc*ing stressing out the students, by overworking them and teaching in inefficient ways, whilst simultaneously excepting students to be excellent at studying (without ever teaching students effective ways to study!).
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Good side: If your on a course you like, then there will be parts that are very interesting, and these are enjoyable to experience.
L Alex
Mar 25 2011: I have taught in the public sector for seven years. I taught in the private sector for three years. I can appreciate the comments and great insight given; however, everyone here are invested parents or invested individuals. Public education does work. Could it be better? YES! Presently, public educators are in a fierce battle against the powers that be to protect the education that they WANT to impart. Because of the insane dependency on testing, administrators are actually telling teachers to look at the state mandated tests and make sure the students can pass. ~This is not an education.
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Invested parents/individuals want an education that teaches students to ask more questions. So do teachers. I/we want to have in depth discussions on art, music, politics, literature and science. I/we want to empower our students with the confidence to ask questions and then the ambition to find answers to those same questions.
Public education does need reform; however, it is public. Not all parents are as involved and it shows in the classroom. As many of you have posted, education starts at home. Some parents are not physically available for their children because of financial burdens or others are not interested. All of these students are in class with your wonderful child.
If we truly want to change education, then we need to come together. Communities and education. Children need someone to look up to and help them make sense of their world. Those children who do not have support at home might find support from a parent/adult that is interested in them.
A lot of decisions are being made about education without educator/parent input. If you want to be informed or you want to make a difference, get on the school board. Talk to the teachers. Visit their classrooms. Ask questions.Mar 23 2011: The true value of organized teaching is evident in the evolution of science and technology. So much so that many have access to computer technology which allows for mass, cross social spectrum discussion on the importance (or not) of organized schooling....
The relation of organized schooling to educational achievement thus leading to social development thru technical advancement cannot be underestimated....hopefully for better & not worse.
The ability of organized schooling to deal with the longer term negative effects(i.e. social exclusion due to perceived inferiority) of organized schooling, well that's another matter.....I believe that is why more and more people are now trying to find alternative education methods which teach for 'better' individual and societal needs.....
Certain legacies of Organized schooling have bred social instability.....i.e. increased industrialization & mechanization leading to accelerated environmental depletion , warfare induced technical evolution surges, diminished self reliance, diminished local, national and international resilience, raising of false hopes (many are losing faith in the higher educated, is there another book burning on the way ?)....
In Organized schoolings' favor, many of these negative legacies of our recent evolution can be attributed to the increased dependency on money as a social organizer rather than the implementation of organized schooling.
We now live in an age where there is a growing battle between resource and ability to access it, those that have battled to the 'top of the money tree' don't understand the incentive to climb down and share the view...hence the growing perception that society is becoming more exclusive than inclusive.....
There surely is a valid argument to whether the 'Enlightenment period' of organized schooling should be renamed....
1) The un-enlightened period
2) The era of accelerated social instability
3) The era of the Ivy League Legacy of Social ILLS ( The era of ILLS)Mar 23 2011: Central governments now have highly evolved planning capabilities, just look at the construction of places like FEMA. It's a reaction to existence in a dangerous and increasingly fragile world.
Evolution clearly shows a 'wish' to enforce order on chaos. Organized schooling is I believe part of that wish.
The question now is whether government led society (i.e. the United Nations) can utilize much of what was & can be gained from organized schooling and implement it to bring about a stable environment on a globe of peaceful equal opportunity, with a long term view of propagation of our species, across the known universe.
You would think this would mean investing in the positives of technology & organized schooling i.e. educating for our needs including the reduction of competitive job procurement, alternative energy, massive land reclamation and reinstating, openly structured government encouraging the participation of all, geo-engineering to influence natural cycles…….
Yet we have and have had….natural environment degradation by over industrialization, investment in the war machine rather than the mediation machine… suppression of alternative energies and other technologies, because of it's perceived infringement on the profit making abilities of the private industrial ladder of hierarchy….the ignorant stupidity of elitism out of step with the needs of a growing world population on a planet of 'finite' resources.
Irrespective of waffle….organized schooling seems to have reduced (at least in this country) occurrences such as this…
http://www.opendemocracy.net/paul-rogers/toll-of-worldMar 23 2011: After over 30 years in pubic schooling my answer to the question, "What is the true value (if any) of organized schooling?" is simple: Congregation.
That said, the complexity of the question rests with its verb.Mar 23 2011: I do not have much to say about my own school experience apart from it gave me lots of time to dream about what was going on, on the other side of the mountain. Mind you this was on the coast of Norway were every person has a mountain to face, at least a big rock! BUT I will say something about the schooling of my 3 children that are now grown up and all creative thinkers. They went to Waldorf schoolsl. I am amazed that nobody in these comments has mentioned the international Waldorf school movement. In short the philosophy behind there thinking is (to use a metaphor) to "kindle the fire rather then fill a bucket."Mar 21 2011: While I understand the "environment to learn and experience" aspect -- which is where my idea of merging community centers and schools and turning them into learning hubs is focusing too -- I find that the opportunity to learn skills like learning to follow directions or socializing with adults can be found elsewhere too and is not unique to schools. As a matter of fact, in a rural environment or the traditional indigenous cultures, these skills are acquired without any plan or curriculum as the nature of the interactions in those societies provides for daily opportunities to learn those skills.
One thing that is offered by learning environments that work and seem to be lacking from the school setting is the opportunity for the learner to immerse in the experience. As long as the kids are split by age and the curriculum controlled by the teacher or some far removed bureaucracy, the schools will only provide false sense of immersiveness -- as one French teacher described to me the environment inside the French Immersion schools here in Canada. (sadly, my own daughter is in one such environment, which is a point of pain for me, but that is a different story!)
What the teacher meant by the false environment is that in her classroom, she is the only one that is constantly using French and is motivated (or at least incentivized) to keep on doing that as a way to offer the experience to the kids. The kids find it very easy to slip back to English, since once they're outside the classroom, they have no reason to keep speaking French.
CONTINUES ... (2 or 3)Mar 21 2011: I am overwhelmed by all the responses and I would like to thank everyone for contributing their thoughts so far! I find this topic of immense importance not just to me but to every parent and educator I had a chance to talk with as I am working to organize TEDxKids@BC. Understanding the value of schooling and education is one of the goals for the conference as we're trying to bring speakers together that have experienced learning in various ways and are applying their passion and skills in doing inspiring work or pushing forward some amazing ideas. The three things we all try to understand are:
- What makes us the authentic selves we all seem to show when not inhibited by social pressures or need to comply?
- Do we become those authentic selves as we grow up or we've always had them with us and what we really learn is when to be someone else?
- If the current schooling system teaches us how to comply and keep the authentic selves in a hidden place, can schooling and education ever be positive forces that nurture our propensity to be curious about the world, wishing to discover it for ourselves, create new value through our passions, and maybe even change it!?
I agree with many of the comments why the current system doesn't provide enough value or on the contrary does more damage instead. However, my interest is not in finding the flaws, but finding if the concept of "learning in an institution whose goal is teaching" has any value in it at all.
One underlying theme I can see bubbling up from many comments is that schools provide an environment where the kids can learn and experience stuff they ordinarily have no chance to in other places. Some of the learnings called out seem to include how to follow directions, meet deadlines, work in groups. On top, some of you suggested that we need schools for the socialization aspect, in particular the opportunity to interact with adults outside the family circle.
CONTINUES ... (1 of 3)


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Good value
By Pharis
from South West Missouri
About Me Avid Cyclist
See all my reviews
Comments about Nashbar Essential Socks:
Good product at a fair price.On sale
Bottom Line Yes, I would recommend this to a friend
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great buy
By hoy
from Denver, CO
About Me Casual/ Recreational
Much more quality than the low low sale price would suggest
By the orange rider
from Chesapeake, VA
I've worn them at 65 and 85 degrees and they were comfortable at both temperatures.
Nashbar is a great product
By Rick
from Superior, CO
Nashbar products are freaking awesome. Great stuff these socks are wonderful. Highly recommend.
Good socks, good price
By UntastyPastry
from Milwaukee, WI
Good socks, been wearing them on my commute for a couple of weeks, on the trail a couple of times so far, and occasionally just walking around in my street shoes when I run out of regular socks and need to do the wash. They are thin, comfortable, dry out quickly and don't retain footstank as much as regular socks do. Will definitely buy more.
(0 of 1 customers found this review helpful)
Good value.
By Sampson
I got these socks to have something more specific to mtn biking to keep my feet warm, dry, and prevent blisters,etc. I wear these everywhere now. I ordered two pairs and may get more soon. They did the job and seem to be great. I'll see how they hold up. Note: they don't prevent rash when you wreck, but no one said they did. :)
Nashbar socks are simple but high qual
By Trekking down the road
from St. Charles, MO
This is about my fourth or fifth purchase of Nashbar socks and the quality is always there.
Can't go wrong with these
By skcyclist
from carpinteria, ca.
They're not top of the line.. probably won't last as long as higher priced socks, but I expect satisfactory wear out of these comfortable socks for running or cycling. A good deal for the money.
My go to socks
By Canuck
from Dundee, Oregon
These are my favorite socks, have multiple pairs in different colors. I wear a size 9-9.5 shoe and the L/XL fit perfect. They breath really well on hot days. Have also used them on colder days (mid 40's) with out my feet getting cold so they seem to be very versatile. The blue and red are my favorites!
Good Sock
By T-Bone
from Katy, TX
Good sock for the money... I've had owned several pairs through the past ten years.
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Italian Floral Medallion Percale Sheet Set
Simply sublime, our bedding features a medallion-adorned trellis printed on fine cotton sateen in a soothing palette.
- 100% cotton sateen
- Sheet set includes 1 flat sheet, 1 fitted sheet and 2 pillowcases (1 in twin set)
- Twin fitted sheet fits mattresses up to 14" deep; full and queen fitted sheets fit mattresses up to 16" deep
- Pillowcase has a European end-flap closure
- Imported
- Machine wash
- In petal or lilac
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Italian Floral Medallion Percale Sheet Set
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Italian Floral Medallion Percale Sheet Set
Italian Floral Medallion Percale Standard Pillowcase
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