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Learning from experienceby Staff Writer / Montréal Canadiens
MONTREAL – This past season wasn't the easiest of Mathieu Darche's career for a number of reasons, but he's ready to prove he's still got a lot of hockey left in him.
One year after delivering the best offensive output of his career, Darche – like his team – suffered a few setbacks in 2011-12. After finally hitting his stride mid-way through the campaign, the 35-year-old suddenly found himself sidelined with an upper-body injury in February and was forced to watch the remaining 21 games from the pressbox.
"For sure I would've liked to have played all the games. Things were going well with Pleky [Tomas Plekanec]. The unfortunate thing is I thought I was playing some of my best hockey of the year before I got injured," admitted the Saint-Laurent native, whose season was cut short on Feb. 21. "In addition to some of the things I've brought to the table the past few years, I also added penalty killing to my list of responsibilities this season. But injuries are just one of those things you can't really control."
Getting some key shorthanded minutes will only help the veteran winger down the road, set to become an unrestricted free agent on July 1. Bolstering his resume with two shorthanded goals this season – just one shy of Plekanec for the team lead – Darche didn't just keep opposing power plays at bay; he also chipped in with some timely offense.
Heading into the summer cautiously optimistic that his game against the Stars in late February won't be his last with the Canadiens, the pending UFA is aware he might have to wait a little longer than usual to learn his fate this summer.
"With the new management coming in, we don't know who's going to be in there or what decisions they're going to make. It's out of my hands so I can't be worrying about that too much," explained Darche, who just finished his third season in Montreal. "I still have some good hockey left to play and I'd love to be back here.
"I know it's going to be a long offseason," he added. "The doctors gave me the green light at the end of the year, so my health is coming along and I have some time to recuperate and make sure I'm completely recovered and ready to go."
Since his arrival in the organization in 2009, much has been made of Darche's mentorship skills off the ice, particularly with fellow Quebecers David Desharnais and Louis Leblanc. Though the Habs might have a very different look next season, the Montreal native is looking forward to being a part of the resurgence.
"The team knows what I can bring and they know what I can do. You need veteran guys on your team. I'm confident that I've shown them enough to stay," mentioned Darche, who has 12 seasons as a pro hockey player under his belt.
"But if the organization decides they want to go in a different direction, that's out of my control," he underlined. "I hope with all my heart that I'll be back. I wouldn't want my career with the Montreal Canadiens to end in 15th place."
Hugo Fontaine is a writer for canadiens.com. Translated by Shauna Denis.
End of season assessment: Mathieu Darche
Up Close with Mathieu Darche
Best of the best
Coming back strong
Pacioretty among Masterton finalists


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WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Existing-home sales in May hit the fastest pace in seven months, thanks to a strengthening labor market, expanding inventories and falling mortgage rates, according to data released Monday.
Rising for a second month, sales of existing homes grew 4.9% in May to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.89 million, the National Association of Realtors said. Economists polled by MarketWatch had expected a May rate of 4.75 million, compared with an originally reported pace of 4.65 million in April. On Monday, NAR tweaked April's rate to 4.66 million.
For context, there was an average monthly sales pace of more than 6 million existing homes over the five years leading up to a 2005 bubble peak.
Recent economic improvements signal that sales rates may continue to pick up, NAR said. Mortgage rates have trended down this year, making home loans more affordable — a drop that could support sales. A gauge of sentiment among home builders recently showed that they are the most confident that they've been in five months.
"Sales appear to be moving up again, although the increase to date — over two months — reverses just a fraction of earlier weakening. Sales will need to keep rising to establish a renewed uptrend," said Jim O'Sullivan, chief U.S. economist at High Frequency Economics.
However, at least one major headwind remains: lenders' strict standards for who can get a loan. In the wake of the financial crisis, banks erected high standards for purchase loans. And while there has been some easing in recent months, it's still tough for many families to obtain a loan, particularly first-time borrowers. Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yellen recently commented that banks need more clarity over the extent of their liability in cases of loans that go bad.
Still, lenders who have seen their mortgage originations drop, with refinancing applications plunging, may be hungry for revenue. And as the jobs environment continues to improve, more would-be borrowers will be eligible for loans and interested in taking on a mortgage.
The median sales price of used homes hit $213,400 in May, up 5.1% from the year-earlier period, the slowest growth since 2012. Although homeowners don't love slowing appreciation, cooler price growth may encourage more buyers to enter the market.
"If prices are rising more slowly, this is a good sign for the longer-term health of the housing market," economists at RDQ Economics wrote in a research note.
A drop in affordability and unusually poor weather cut existing-home sales during the first quarter, likely dragging results for all of 2014 below last year's final tally. Indeed, despite May's increase, the pace of existing-home sales was down 5% from a year earlier.
Also Monday, NAR said that there were 2.28 million existing homes for sale in May, a 5.6-month supply at the current sales pace, compared with a 5.0-month supply during the year-earlier period.
On Tuesday, the government will report on sales of new single-family homes, and economists expect to see the annual pace rise to 443,000 in May from 433,000 in April.
More from MarketWatch
Buy Russia and Nigeria: Mark Mobius remains an emerging-markets superbull


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Triathlon returns to Japan's Sendai Bay
By Merryn Sherwood on 04/07/12 at 2:55 am
Triathlon has successfully returned to one of the most affected areas of the earthquake and tsunami disaster in Japan, with the NTT Triathlon Japan Cup/Miyagi International Triathlon Sendai Bay held in Shichigahama.
The event came back on the triathlon calendar only 15 months after the tragic event. Last year's edition, which was supposed to also combine the 2011 Sendai Bay ITU Triathlon Asian Cup, was forced to be cancelled due to the venue condition. This year, a total of 28 men and nine women participated in elite sprint contests, joined by 240 enthusiastic age-group triathletes and 21 teams competing in a relay.
IOC Member and ITU President Marisol Casado said:
"Following the devastation witnessed in Japan's triathlon mecca in 2011, it is incredible that triathlon now presents the first international sporting event in the affected area. After visiting Shichigahama last year, I was shocked and concerned for our triathlon family in Japan, but the resilience and speed of recovery of the Japanese people sets an example to us all.
"It has always been my belief that sport develops values such as inspiration, friends and humanity which are greatly important in times of difficulty. This Triathlon Recovery Festival not only shows the strong support for recovery in the area, but also offers the perfect opportunity for triathletes and locals to become involved and enjoy themselves."
The men's race started at 11am under chilly drizzly rain and Hirokatsu Tayama showed his Olympic preparations were on track with a dominating win. When Tayama exited the water, he already enjoyed a 25-second lead. While a group of eight came together and formed a chase pack, Tayama outclassed those competitors and had a healthy 36-second lead at the bike finish. The 30-year-old Tayama won in 57 minutes 42 seconds. Tayama will join the elusive club of three-time consecutive Olympians when he competes in London this August, and said he would take the experience with him.
Hirokatsu Tayama said:
"I was encouraged by people who revived the triathlon event while recovering themselves from the devastating earthquake and tsunami. I would like to thank those who always give us such a stage where athletes can perform and shine. Their efforts and supports are invaluable. I will compete the Olympic Games in London definitely with hope and expectation of those people in Shichigahama."
In the women's field, 25-year old Hideko Kikuchi outshone the rest and won with a time of 1:05:10.
Story and images courtesy of Masa Takaya


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Our Huntsville homepage offers information on the non-surgical option, the Abortion Pill, as well as, information on Surgical Abortions up to 20 weeks.
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The Best Steak in NYC Might Not Be in a Steakhouse
A new breed of chef with a passion for fresh, locally sourced produce, and a small specialty farm in Pennsylvania, are colluding. Their goal is to topple the ancien regime of traditional steakhouses that inhabit dusty, wood paneled chambers where gruff, cantankerous waiters serve you heaping plates from a ubiquitous generic menu: porterhouse for two, creamed spinach, hash brown potatoes. It is here, in these hallowed halls of beef that the finest steaks have heretofore been exclusively available.
But what if one wants to retain the virtues of a steakhouse—a huge slab of properly cooked beef without the stuffiness that accompanies the ritual of steakhouse dining and with a supporting menu that has higher culinary aspirations? A few years ago I would have said that it was not possible but these days there is a paradigm shift occurring in high-end beef in New York City—an extraordinary cut of beef is being offered in three avant-garde but very different restaurants in the city: Tom Collichio's Craft, David Chang's Momofuku Ssam Bar and Resto (with new chef Bobby Helen) collectively pose a serious challenge to the hegemony of the chophouse.
Once a week Steve Pryzant travels three and half hours from Four Story Hill Farm, his ten-acre property in North East Pennsylvania, and delivers Roen ducks, Berkshire pigs, milk-fed chickens and USDA Prime beef to a select group of restaurant clients. The rib-eye he sells is dry aged USDA prime and has an ethereal tenderness and that prized moldy, mineral rich, blue-cheese like tang that comes from the dry aging process.
A43 East 19th Street (b/n Broadway & Park Avenue South) Manhattan NY 10003; map); 212-780-0880; craftrestaurant.com
Comes with: Roasted bone marrow
Price: $130 for 32 ounces
Notes: Reservations recommended
The first time I sampled the Four story Hill Farms rib-eye was at Craft and it came drizzled in au jus and accompanied with earthy marrow bones and a small forest of herbs. Because the cut is roasted after an initial searing on a flattop griddle, as opposed to the violent grilling that steakhouses employ, new dimensions of flavor and texture are revealed. The meat takes on a sweeter character, approaching milk-fed veal and one can almost taste the corn used to fatten the animal for slaughter. Texturally the flesh becomes buttery and almost fork tender. I have never before had a steak to rival what a steakhouse can offer but with a far more adventurous menu and effusive service that Craft provides.
Momofuku Ssam Bar
Momofuku Ssam Bar
207 Second Avenue, New York NY 10003 (at 13th Street; map); 212-254-3500; momofuku.com/ssam
Comes with: A different side dish every night
Price: $140 for 32 ounces
Notes: No reservations accepted
Over at Momofuku Ssam bar the same cut is available, also seared and roasted, but served with a shallot confit on top and accompanied by a different side dish each night. On one occasion I enjoyed it with some sweet smoked peaches and onions, on another with salty, bacon strewn fingerling potatoes but you may well end up with market greens and XO sauce, or any number of other dishes. The rib-eye here is as captivating as the one at Craft, though it's also markedly different, taking on an even sweeter character and highlighting an earthy, truffle-like gaminess in the beef.
111 East 29th Street, New York NY 10016 (b/n Lexington Avenue and Park Avenue South; map); 212-685-5585; restonyc.com
Comes with? Bearnaise sauce, pomme frites,arugula salad
Price: $140 for 32 ounces
Notes: Call ahead to check availability of cut, appears as a blackboard special
Resto serves their version of the rib-eye with Bearnaise sauce, golden pommes frites and an arugula salad. They distinguish themselves from both Craft and Ssam Bar by dry aging the beef for an additional two weeks after taking delivery and the result is an extremely pronounced, moldy flavor. The French refer to the fungus that grows on selected grape varieties as "noble rot"; I think the same nomenclature should be applied to the dry aging of beef. And I have experienced no rot more noble than the rib-eye at Resto.
In all three cases the rib-eye offered by these restaurants is exceptional, offering all the virtues of a steakhouse without the formality and limited menu options. The fact that the same cut of beef, prepared in three markedly different ways, equals and arguably surpasses what's offered at a top steakhouse is a testament that both the chefs and Four Story Hills Farm are doing something revolutionary.
All products linked here have been independently selected by our editors. We may earn a commission on purchases, as described in our affiliate policy.


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Vladimir Putin's announcement that he will run for president in 2012 has evoked mass breast beating in the Western media. The indignant response has ranged from direct attacks on Mr. Putin himself to dire assessments of Russia's future prospects under a renewed Putin presidency.
But let's look at some of the most serious accusations leveled at Putin and his Russia. In the right light, we see Russia and Putin have taken some undue heat.
First, critics take aim at Putin for the state of the Russian economy. Many have noted that corruption in Russia is rife and wealth is concentrated in the hands of a privileged few. (True, but data show that income inequality has also risen in the United States and United Kingdom over the past 20 years). Corruption is indeed a problem in Russia, and may continue to inhibit broad economic growth. But let's remember what Putin inherited on becoming president in 2000 – the disastrous legacy of the Yeltsin era.
Under Boris Yeltsin, Russia opened the door to Western economists and followed their "shock therapy" prescription for economic ills, an austerity program designed to control inflation by raising interest rates and taxes, and inflicting deep cuts on state social programs. As a result, Russia's GDP fell by half, unemployment soared, and the measures failed to curb inflation. Indeed, hyperinflation wiped out the savings of millions of ordinary Russians.
Another view of the Russian economy is voiced by Donald Kendall, former CEO and cofounder of PepsiCo:
"I have been involved with business in the Soviet Union and Russia since 1959, and Putin has provided the best leadership the country has ever had. PepsiCo is very happy to have Russia as its biggest international market. It is planning to put $1 billion into Russia over the next two years, bringing a ten-year total to $10 billion."
Mr. Kendall's favorable account of international investment is echoed by that of GE, Cisco, Nokia, Unilever, and Siemens, among others.
Second, there is the portrait of Putin as the arch-authoritarian. To be sure, Putin is, to use the celebrated phrase of my friend, the political scientist Michael Mandelbaum, no "Scandinavian democrat." But again, we should hark back to Mr. Yeltsin. The political consequence of his authoritarian economic policies was a stalemate between the executive and legislative branches that paralyzed the state. Yeltsin sought to disband the legislative branches of government by decree and, in a final act of desperation, called in the Army to attack the parliament building, resulting in 500 deaths and over 1000 wounded.
In comparison to Yeltsin's record, couldn't Putin be seen as a great leap forward from his predecessor rather than as a reversion to authoritarianism?
Third, we have Putin the ultranationalist. The man cannot win. On the one hand, for example, he is criticized for buying loyalty from Chechnya and other North Caucasus republics with lavish subsidies. Certainly, Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov is an unsavory character, but should Putin be condemned for trying to hold Russia together? After all, the US fought a bloody civil war to do just that.
There is another crucial factor here: the strategic position of the Caucasus, which is highly unstable, and potentially ripe for Islamic jihadist extremist forces to the South. It would scarcely be in Russia's security interest simply to cut loose the Caucasus states.
On the other hand, when Putin reveals an internationalist plan, he is once again excoriated – as in his October proposal for a "Single Economic Area" comprised of Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. This may be something of a pipe dream, but should he be scorned for seeking measures that might mitigate a global economic crisis, and envisaging, as he put it, "an effective link between Europe and the dynamic Asia-Pacific region"?
I'm left with two troubling questions then. First, what is the West's problem in understanding Russia's and Putin's point of view?
Moscow certainly feels it has causes for concern as to how Russia is being treated. The fact is that Mikhail Gorbachev felt betrayed by the United States and the West after they reneged on a 1990 promise not to expand NATO bases to Russia's borders in exchange for Moscow's acquiescence on German reunification.
Add to that the bitter pill of US support for the "color revolutions" in the former Soviet republics of Georgia (2003), Ukraine (2004), and Kyrgyzstan (2005), neighbors with whom Russia still feels strong strategic and emotional bonds.
Then there is the clear double standard in the West in its consideration of Kosovo on the one hand and South Ossetia on the other. In the case of the former, the US helped Kosovo gain independence from Serbia, while the US still views autonomy-seeking South Ossetia as an integral part of Georgia. Finally, Russia must certainly remember saber rattling on missile defense deployment in the Czech Republic and Poland in the Bush II years.
The second troubling question is this: Why is the bar always set so high for Russia? I pointed out earlier that criticisms of income inequality that can equally be leveled at Western countries. According to both United Nations and CIA data, the US has a higher percentage of income inequality than Russia. Another example of this double standard is that despite China's rising nationalism and its deplorable human rights record, we have long embraced it as a trade partner.
On the other hand, despite recent renewed assurances that Russia will be admitted to the World Trade Organization, Putin's country is still held hostage by the US Congress to the Jackson-Vanik amendment. The amendment is a cold war-era anachronism that limited US trade with nations that restricted emigration. The amendment was imposed on the Soviet Union 37 years ago as punishment supposedly for long-since abolished restrictions on Jewish emigration.
Russia as a modern state is barely 20 years of age. Let us understand the challenges it faces, exercise patience and with it restraint in criticism, and wish Putin and his nation well, because a good relationship with Russia is a lot better for the United States and the West than the alternative.
David C. Speedie is director of the US Global Engagement program at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs.


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Warner Bros. often says it's "difficult" to make a movie about the world's best-known superheroine. Something tells me that if Warner Bros. ever gets its act together to make a Wonder Woman movie — and that's a big if — that it's not going to look half as awesome as this incredible, fan-made short.
It's directed by Sam Balcomb of Rainfall Films (you may remember their recent and equally awesome Venom short) and stars Rileah Vanderbilt of Team Unicorn, and it features an excellent take on Wonder Woman's costume, features her fighting both men and monsters, and it includes basically everything you'd want or need in a WW movie distilled down into just over two minutes. So while making a Wonder Woman movie may be difficult for WB executives, it appears to be well within the capabilities of regular people. Sigh.


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As New England defender Darrius Barnes kept a watchful eye on the MLS CBA talks taking place in Washington last week, he also paid close attention to important contract negotiations closer to home.
Like the discussions between MLS and the Players Union over the weekend, the give and take between Barnes and the Revolution over a new contract also ended successfully. The team announced on Friday Barnes agreed to extend his contract with the team after a stellar rookie season.
The pair of new deals gave Barnes plenty of reason to celebrate over the weekend.
"It was great," Barnes told MLSSoccer.com after training on Tuesday. "I had a pretty good season last year and the Revs thought I did too, so they offered me a new contract. I was definitely happy about it, but I'm even happier about the CBA getting signed. That's a new contract within itself."
The 23-year-old central defender admitted it was a little bit peculiar to have the negotiations ongoing simultaneously, but said he couldn't wait to sign the new, improved deal to extend his stay with the Revolution once the two sides agreed to terms.
"My agent and the front office were having negotiations back and forth and they were able to come to an agreement that both sides were happy with, so we went ahead and put the pen to paper," Barnes said.


text: FILE - In this undated file photo provided by Harvard University Press, President Theodore Roosevelt, posing as an "outdoorsman," points his rifle during a studio photo session. The White House has released a photo of President Barack Obama firing a gun, two days before he is set to travel to Minnesota to discuss gun control. It shows Obama shooting at clay targets on the range at Camp David, the presidential retreat in Maryland, where he says he engages in the sport "all the time." The image was released at a time when Obama is pushing a package of gun-control measures in response to the Newtown, Conn., school shooting. But the image of a U.S. president holding a gun is certainly nothing new. (AP Photo/Harvard University Press, File)


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Police: California university gunman upset about teasing over English skills
OAKLAND, Calif. -- A nursing student expelled from a small Christian university and upset about being teased over his poor English skills opened fire at the school, going from room to room in a rampage that left six students and a secretary dead, police said Tuesday.
One L. Goh, 43, forced the secretary into a classroom at Oikos University in Oakland on Monday, told people to line up and, when some didn't cooperate, began his shooting spree, police Chief Howard Jordan said.
"It's very, very sad," Jordan said. "We have seven people who didn't deserve to die and three others wounded because someone who couldn't deal with the pressures of life."
Goh, a South Korean national, was expelled in January for behavioral problems from the small private school of fewer than 100 students, the chief said. He appeared to have been planning the attack for several weeks.
Goh was upset with administrators and several students at the college, which an official said offered classes in Korean and English and was founded to help Korean immigrants adjust to a new country and find careers in nursing and ministry.
"They disrespected him, laughed at him," Jordan said. "They made fun of his lack of English speaking skills. It made him feel isolated compared to the other students."
Jordan said Goh tried to find a female administrator Monday and began shooting when he learned she wasn't there. The victims, who range in age from 21 to 40, were from various countries, including Nigeria, Nepal and the Philippines.
"It is very disturbing, especially given the magnitude of this incident," he said. "While he's being very cooperative with us, you expect some level of remorse for someone who just killed seven people that he really didn't even know."
Police were still looking for the gun used, which Jordan described as a semiautomatic handgun that was purchased legally.
Goh has no criminal history, but he has debts and minor traffic citations in his former home state of Virginia and was evicted from one apartment complex.
His brother, a soldier on active duty, was killed in a car crash last year in Virginia, according to Stars and Stripes newspaper.
Soon after the shooting began Monday, heavily armed officers swarmed the school in a large industrial park near the Oakland airport. For a time, police believed the gunman could still be inside. But he wasn't.
Instead, officers said he apparently drove about three miles from campus before surrendering to officers inside a supermarket.
Police first received a 911 call at 10:33 a.m. reporting a woman on the ground bleeding. As more calls came in from the school, the first arriving officer found a victim suffering from a life-threatening gunshot wound, he said.
More officers then arrived and formed a perimeter around the school on the belief that the suspect was still inside, he said.
Jordan said there were about 35 people in or near the building when gunfire broke out. Of the seven fatalities, five died at the scene and another two at the hospital. The wounded are in stable condition, and at least one person was released from the hospital.
Art Richards said he was driving by the university on his way to pick up a friend when he spotted a woman hiding in the bushes. He pulled over and, when he approached her, she said, "I'm shot" and showed him her arm.
"She had a piece of her arm hanging out," Richards said, noting that she was wounded near the elbow.
As police arrived, Richards said he heard 10 gunshots coming from inside the building. The female victim told him that she saw the gunman shoot one person point-blank in the chest and one in the head.
Tashi Wangchuk, whose wife witnessed the shooting, said his wife was in her vocational nursing class when she heard gunshots. She locked the door and turned off the lights, Wangchuk said he was told by his wife.
The gunman "banged on the door several times and started shooting outside and left," he said. Wangchuk said no one was hurt inside his wife's classroom, but that the gunman shot out the glass in the door. He said she did not know the man.
"She's a hero," he said of his wife.
At Highland Hospital, Dawinder Kaur's family told the Oakland Tribune that she was being treated for a gunshot to her elbow.
The U.S. Army Reservist, 19, told her family that the gunman was a student in her nursing class who had been absent for months before returning Monday. The gunman entered the classroom and ordered students to line up against the wall.
When he showed his gun, students began running and he opened fire, her family said.
"She told me that a guy went crazy and she got shot," brother Paul Singh told the newspaper.
Goh fled from the school in a Honda Accord that belonged to one of the victims, Jordan said. The suspect was detained at a Safeway supermarket about three miles from the university, about an hour after the shooting.
A security guard at the supermarket approached the man because he was acting suspiciously. The man told the guard that he needed to talk to police because he shot people, and the guard called authorities.
Goh also called his father soon after the shooting and told him what happened, the chief said. The father called authorities.
Police went to the Westlake Christian Terrace senior housing complex on Monday afternoon to speak with a relative of Goh, Nam Ko Young, who's believed to be the man's father, said Young's neighbor, Barbara Ferguson.
Ferguson said she's seen Goh and Young in the lobby and exchanged hellos in the past but that she doesn't know them well.


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You are here: Home ‹ Board index ‹ Jim Carrey Discussion ‹ Recent Photos
Fave Jim pics
Post all recent pictures of Jim Carrey here and share them with us. Please post where it was added.
the last one is sooooo sexy
Thanks a lot Priya, I saved some of them
Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color, choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable!
Plz c direct link:
http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c? ... ff53_large
Ah uh!! No! He looks cute I'll admit that and I do like that picture (I like all their family pictures) but no he don't need to be fat, he don't need to stay fat.
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Oklahoman Scott Downard easily won the Cowtown Marathon, in Fort Worth, with a time of 2:31:40. He outran the rest of the field by more than six minutes, so there was plenty of time to disqualify him before the actual winner even finished.
Downard freely admits that he didn't register for the race. Heck, he didn't even plan to run. But a friend couldn't make the run, so Downard pinned his number on and just blew away everyone else. And this wasn't some fun run: the winner (second place finisher Kolin Styles) qualifies for the Boston and New York Marathons. Tough luck for Downard.
The race director said Downard "understood completely and said he'd come back next year."
Cowtown marathon's first finisher disqualified; runner-up wins [Star-Telegram]


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Twenty-five years ago, on April 15, 1989, Chinese students were mourning the death of a reformist leader. But what began as mourning evolved into mass protests demanding democracy. Demonstrators remained in Beijing's Tiananmen Square, day after day, until their protests were brutally suppressed by the Chinese army — on June 4. Hundreds died; to this day, no one knows how many.
The media captured some of the story of the massacre in Beijing. But Louisa Lim, NPR's longtime China correspondent, says the country's government has done all it can in the intervening 25 years to erase the memory of the uprising. Lim's forthcoming book, The People's Republic of Amnesia, relates how 1989 changed China and how China rewrote what happened in 1989 in its official version of events. Her story includes an investigation into a forgotten crackdown in the southwestern city of Chengdu — which, to this day, has never been reported.
It was in Chengdu, which is now a bustling mega-city with a population of 14 million, that Lim met Tang Deying.
Tang Deying holds her determination in the stubborn set of her jaw. This diminutive, disheveled, elderly woman shuffling into the room in her pink plastic flip-flops is one of the few living links to the crackdown in Chengdu during the summer of 1989.
When martial law troops opened fire on civilians in Beijing on June 4, 1989, the violence was beamed immediately into living rooms around the world. Yet it has taken a quarter-century for details to emerge of the deadly events in Chengdu that cost Tang's 17-year-old son his life.
For 25 years, a single aim has driven Tang's existence: seeking restitution and accountability for the death of her son, Zhou Guocong, who was fatally beaten in police custody after disappearing in the 1989 Chengdu crackdown.
"Right is right. Wrong is wrong," she told me firmly.
That simple mantra became the starting point for me to pursue a trail of evidence sprawling over three continents, including eyewitness accounts, old photographs, hastily scribbled, anguished journal entries, U.S. diplomatic cables and the Chinese government records laying out the official version of events. These disparate threads entwine to illustrate Chengdu's forgotten tragedy, which has been almost entirely wiped from the collective memory.
Protests in Chengdu mirrored those in Beijing's Tiananmen Square, with students mourning the sudden death from a heart attack of reformist party leader Hu Yaobang on April 15, 1989. This soon morphed into mass protests, followed by a hunger strike beginning in mid-May.
Students occupied Chengdu's Tianfu Square, camping at the base of its 100-foot-tall Chairman Mao statue and proudly proclaiming it to be a "Little Tiananmen." The initial move by police to clear protesters from Tianfu Square on the morning of June 4 went ahead relatively peacefully.
But on hearing the news that troops had opened fire on unarmed civilians in Beijing, the citizens of Chengdu took to the streets once more. This time they knew the risk; they carried banners denouncing the "June 4th massacre" and mourning wreaths with the message: "We Are Not Afraid To Die."
Soon the police moved in with tear gas. Pitched battles broke out in Tianfu Square. Protesters threw paving stones at the police; the police retaliated by beating protesters with batons.
At a nearby medical clinic, the bloodied victims of police brutality lay in rows on the floor. Kim Nygaard, an American resident of Chengdu, recalled that they begged her: "Tell the world! Tell the world!"
A row of patients sat on a bench, their cracked skulls swathed in bandages, their shirts stained scarlet near the collar, visceral evidence of the police strategy of targeting protesters' heads.
But the violence went both ways: Dennis Rea, an American then teaching at a local university, watched, horrified, as the crowd viciously attacked a man they believed to be a policeman. The crowd pulled at his arms and legs, then dropped him on the ground and began stomping on his body and face, crushing it.
Eight people were killed that day, including two students, according to the local government's official account. It said the fighting left 1,800 people injured — of them, it said, 1,100 were policemen — though it described most of the injuries as light.
But U.S. diplomats at the time told The New York Times they believed as many as 100 seriously wounded people had been carried from the square that day.
Protests continued into the next evening, and as June 5 turned into June 6, a crowd broke into one of the city's smartest hotels, the Jinjiang. It was there, under the gaze of foreign guests, that one of the most brutal — and largely forgotten — episodes of the Chengdu crackdown played out after a crowd attacked the hotel.
More than a dozen Western guests initially took shelter in the quarters of the U.S. consul general. But in the early hours of the morning while returning to her room, Nygaard saw what looked like sandbags piled in the courtyard. As she wondered what they would be used for, she spotted a flicker of movement and realized with a chill of horror that the sandbags were actually people lying face-down on the ground, their hands secured behind their backs.
"I remember so well, because I was thinking, 'Oh my God, they're breaking their arms when they're doing that,' " she told me.
Eventually, two trucks pulled up. Nygaard remembers that moment vividly: "They piled bodies into the truck, and we were, like, 'There's no way you could survive that.' Certainly the people on the bottom would have suffocated. They picked them up like sandbags, and they threw them into the back of the truck. They threw them like garbage."
Five separate witnesses described the same scene, which was also mentioned in a U.S. diplomatic cable. The witnesses estimated they had seen 30 to 100 bodies thrown into the trucks.
The local government made no secret of the detentions. The Whole Story of the Chengdu Riots, a Chinese-language book recounting the official version of events, notes that "70 ruffians" had been caught at the Jinjiang hotel.
As to what happened to those detainees and how many — if any — of them died, it is impossible to know.
The Chengdu protests were immediately labeled "political turmoil" on a par with Beijing, with the protesters seen as "rioters," stigmatizing all who took part. This instant rewriting of history was the first step toward lowering a blanket of state-sponsored amnesia over the events of 1989.
Why does it even matter 25 years later? It matters because of Tang Deying, who has been punished for her refusal to forget. Her son, who was detained riding his bike home on June 6, never emerged from police custody. She was told by another detainee that he'd been beaten to death. On her quest for an explanation of his death, she has visited Beijing five times to lodge official complaints. Each time she was intercepted and sent back. She has been detained by police, beaten, placed under surveillance and twice locked in an iron cage.
But her stubbornness paid out hard-won dividends. In 2000, she was presented with a photograph of her son's corpse, which confirmed the painful knowledge of how he died. Blood was congealed around his nostrils and on one side of his mouth. There was a large bruise across his nose, and his face appeared swollen and uneven. One of his eyes was slightly open. On seeing it, she fainted. In death, her son was still watching her.
In 2006, she accepted a "hardship allowance" of almost $9,000, becoming the first and only person to be given a government payout in connection with a 1989 death. The authorities expected her to stop her activities — but she hasn't. She says those responsible still need to admit their culpability.
What happened in Chengdu 25 years ago matters enough that the local government continues to devote financial and human resources to muzzling Tang. Her treatment shows how scared the Chinese authorities are of their own recent history.
A quarter-century ago, the government used guns and batons to suppress its own people. Now it is deploying more sophisticated tools of control — censorship of the media and the falsification of its own history — to build patriotism and create a national identity.
Though China's citizens have become undeniably richer and freer in the post-Tiananmen era, Tang Deying's experience shows the limits to that freedom. Simply by keeping alive a memory that others have suppressed or simply forgotten, Tang has become seen as a threat to social stability.
What happened in Chengdu matters because it shows the success of the Chinese government in not just controlling its people, but also in controlling their memories. In the China of today, that most personal space of all — memory — has become a political tool.
Twenty-five years ago today, students and intellectuals went to Beijing's Tiananmen Square to mourn the death of a communist leader who was seen as a reformer. That gathering soon evolved into a mass pro-democracy protest.
The protests grew larger and larger as tens of thousands moved into the square, until finally they were crushed by the Chinese army in early June. It's believed hundreds were killed. The international media captured the story of that massacre, but very little of the history that came up in this conversation with our colleague Steve Inskeep.
STEVE INSKEEP, BYLINE: This part of the story comes from Louisa Lim, NPR's longtime correspondent in Beijing. She says China's government has done all it can to erase the memory of the uprising, and she set about to reconstruct the events of 1989 in a forthcoming book called "The People's Republic of Amnesia." Her story includes an investigation of demonstrations and repression outside Beijing. This news was hardly covered even at the time. She went to the scene in the southwestern Chinese city of Chengdu. Today, Chengdu has a population of 14 million.
LOUISA LIM, BYLINE: The sites that were so important in 1989 still remain today. So, there's a statue of Chairman Mao, which is in the main square. And back then, that was where the students staged their hunger strike. Nowadays, you're much more likely to see BMWs and Audis just kind of zooming past the statue. So, the city itself has had a facelift. It looks very different from what it did back then.
INSKEEP: So, you tried to reconstruct what happened, and you write that at the beginning, these protests in the city of Chengdu, which is a city of many millions of people, were kind of small, kind of lame. What were they like, and what happened?
LIM: So, in Chengdu, there was a student movement, just like in Beijing, and it really mirrored that. Students occupied the square in Chengdu. They had their hunger strike. But what was different was that on June the 4th, after the protests in Beijing were put down by army troops, in Chengdu, people came out onto the streets, and they came out onto the streets in protest against the brutality in Beijing. Thousands of people marched to the square with signs saying things like we are not afraid of death. And there was then this inevitable crackdown. Even according to the Chinese government's own accounts, eight people were killed, including two students in Chengdu, and more than 1,800 people were injured there. And I spoke to an American who was teaching English in Chengdu at the time, Dennis Rea, and he described to me how he saw wounded people being ferried out of that square.
DENNIS REA: The members of the public had joined hands to create a safe passageway for people who were constantly carrying in wounded citizens. And we saw them come in, you know, on people's shoulders, draped over bicycles and carts. We were probably in that precise location for about 20 minutes. There was never a time when I don't recall somebody being carried in.
INSKEEP: Hearing this account of it, reading your reconstruction of it, I begin to get a sense of maybe tens of thousands of people on the streets or more at that point. How did the news of the crackdown in Tiananmen Square and Beijing - the story that we know about - affect the story in Chengdu as the days went on?
LIM: The people of Chengdu became evermore enraged by the behavior of the authorities, and the fact that people were being beaten. And they began to target government properties. So they burnt down state-owned markets, started setting fire to police cars. Then they targeted a very large, state-run hotel - the Jinjiang Hotel, which still exists - and that was the site of a second crackdown by the authorities, which was witnessed by quite a large number of foreigners who were saying in that hotel.
INSKEEP: And one of these people that you spoke with was a woman named Kim Nygaard. Who was she and what did she see?
LIM: So, Kim Nygaard is an American, and at the time she was based at one of the universities in Chengdu. She had been sheltering in the hotel at the U.S. consul-general's residence while there were these kind of battles outside, teargas in the streets. And then when she went back to her room afterwards, she was told it was safe. As she looked out of the window into the courtyard, she saw bodies on the ground. At first she thought they were sandbags, and then she saw movement, and she saw how a policeman was tying or wiring the arms of a prisoner together. And as she watched, she was convinced that they were breaking the arms of the protestors. And then she watched as two trucks pulled up.
KIM NYGAARD: They piled bodies into the truck. And we were, like, there's no way you could survive that. Certainly, people on the bottom would have suffocated. You know, they picked them up like sandbags, and they threw them into the back of the truck. They threw them, like garbage.
INSKEEP: Kim Nygaard, a witness, speaking there over Skype. And this is just one of the eyewitness accounts that you've gathered, Louisa Lim. There's another person who describes heads being bashed with iron rods. This was a pretty brutal crackdown in Chengdu.
LIM: It was a very brutal crackdown, and even today, it's difficult to know how many people were targeted. And when I went to Chengdu, the thing that really started me on this quest was meeting one woman, Tang Deying, who lost her son that day. He, she subsequently discovered, was beaten by police and she was actually given a photograph of his corpse which clearly showed that he had been beaten to death. But she, even someone like her, who's campaigned so very long to try and find out exactly what happened, she was unable to tell me whether there were other victims in this way that she knew about. I mean, when I asked her that question, she just looked me straight in the eye, and she said: Even if I knew, I wouldn't tell you. And I think, to me, that was a sign of just how taboo this topic is in China today.
INSKEEP: Why is it so important to the state to keep this story hidden in plain sight, as it were? Because people know that something terrible happened. Why are they so determined to put the lid on the details, if they can?
LIM: Well, people know overseas that something terrible happened in China in 1989. But in China itself, the collective memory is really being lost over time. And I think 25 years ago, I mean, China suppressed its people with bullets and clubs, but now it's using these much more sophisticated tools of control. It's really manipulating history in order to create a national identity and to try to build patriotism. So, I think that's why what happened then is still important today. It gives us a window into what preoccupies the Chinese government. After all, this is a government which really sees the threat within, rather from outside.
INSKEEP: Louisa Lim's new book is called "The People's Republic of Amnesia." She's a correspondent for NPR News, a longtime Beijing correspondent. Thanks very much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.


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READ about Piers Morgan's long career in journalism here.
Amidst the very public and political uproar that comes following revelations of additional indiscretions by Anthony Weiner, this evening "Piers Morgan Live" welcomed the man responsible for bringing the latest lewd information to the forefront of the nations conscience, Nik Richie.
The creator of the gossip website TheDirty.com, Richie published the sexually-themed photos and text messages sent by the New York City mayoral candidate that lead to Tuesday's impromptu press conference.
Talking live with guest host Donny Deutsch, the man born Hooman Abedi Karamian explained how he obtained the "dirt":
"She came to me. She was a fan of the site, and she confided in me. And, I told her to send me all the information, all the screen shots, because I personally didn't believe her at first," said Richie, talking about the woman known only to this point as "Sydney Leathers. "We spent the weekend just connecting the dots, and I drilled her. I basically said, you know, you've got to convince me if you're going to convince America."
According to Richie, Weiners' relationship with the woman began with an e-mail, and grew to involve social media:
"She actually e-mailed Weiner in 2011 and it wasn't a nice e-mail. She pretty much bashed him for the whole original sex scandal, and Weiner never responded," Richie told Deutsch, as a live studio audience hung on every word. "He must have been feeling creepy one day in 2012 and looked at his Facebook e-mail and saw that she sent this scathing e-mail and he poked her on Facebook, and she poked back and, you know, 'the Weiner' decided he wanted to be 'Carlos Danger' [a Weiner alias] and it got crazy."
As the assembled gang of viewers giggled at Richie's tale, Deutsch called for serious conversation, and asked his guest about his intentions:
"What do you, as a member of the 300 million people of this country say to yourself before you put something out like this," he wondered.
Richie insisted he's merely giving the masses what they want:
"I look at the internet and say 'privacy is gone, there's no such thing'. To give people their voice is my goal."
Watch the clip for more of Deutsch's discussion with Richie, and for the next edition of "Piers Morgan Live," watch CNN every night at 9.
» Follow "Piers Morgan Live" on Twitter
» Follow "Piers Morgan Live" on Instagram
I'm a democrat and think Anthony Weiner did, at one point, have something to contribute to our society. At this point, it's time for him to tuck his Weiner back in his pants and get the hell out of the public eye. If not for his own perverted sense of self , but for the sake of his extremely talented wife and his family.
Too bad they don't make tongue condoms for this insane psychopath serial adulterer.
What the hell is Star Jones doing commenting on anything? How embarrassing for CNN and especially a show with Piers Morgan's name on it. Yuk.
I do not understand why these women are commended for "standing by their man". They are only thinking of themselves and doing a disservice to all of the rest of us. Weiner is a disgusting pathetic narcissist and he should NOT be elected to represent anyone – his wife on the other hand seems like a respectable, talented, loyal and intelligent woman – she should dump him and run for mayor herself. That would be the best example to set for her son.
Amen, sister!
thank you God ,you are not like the people of America.
I think Nik Richie is trash for creating a forum that allows people to slander others without consequence.
Carlos Danger never pulls out
~ from Jimmy Fallon show ~
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It's Super Cute Sunday so here's some ridiculously cute animal pictures to make your day even better!
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If you're a fan of cute animals you should check out The Animal Hour in The Junior Club with Alex every weekday from 2pm!
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Why not get out and explore Lee Valley Regional Park and attend some of our fantastic and varied events? Whether you like walking, wildlife, birds, gardens, sport, kids' activities or boat trips there is something for you.
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Kickstarter Is Not a Store
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It's hard to know how many people feel like they're shopping at a store when they're backing projects on Kickstarter, but we want to make sure that it's no one. Today we're introducing a number of changes to reinforce that Kickstarter isn't a store — it's a new way for creators and audiences to work together to make things. We'd like to walk you through these changes now.
Creators must talk about "Risks and Challenges"
Today we added a new section to the project page called "Risks and Challenges." All project creators are now required to answer the following question when creating their project:
"What are the risks and challenges this project faces, and what qualifies you to overcome them?"
We added the "Risks and Challenges" section to reinforce that creators' projects are in development. Before backing a project, people can judge both the creator's ability to complete their project as promised and whether they feel the creator is being open and honest about the risks and challenges they face.
The new section will appear below the project description of projects that launch starting today.
New Hardware and Product Design Project Guidelines
The development of new products can be especially complex for creators and seductive to backers. Today we're adding additional guidelines for Hardware and Product Design projects.
They are:
- Product simulations are prohibited. Projects cannot simulate events to demonstrate what a product might do in the future. Products can only be shown performing actions that they're able to perform in their current state of development.
- Product renderings are prohibited. Product images must be photos of the prototype as it currently exists.
Products should be presented as they are. Over-promising leads to higher expectations for backers. The best rule of thumb: under-promise and over-deliver.
We've also added the following guideline for Hardware and Product Design projects:
- Offering multiple quantities of a reward is prohibited. Hardware and Product Design projects can only offer rewards in single quantities or a sensible set (some items only make sense as a pair or as a kit of several items, for instance). The development of new products can be especially complex for creators and offering multiple quantities feels premature, and can imply that products are shrink-wrapped and ready to ship.
These guidelines are effective for all Hardware and Product Design projects that launch starting today.
We hope these updates reinforce that Kickstarter isn't a traditional retail experience and underline the uniqueness of Kickstarter. Thanks for reading, and thanks as always for using Kickstarter.
UPDATE (Monday, September 24): We just posted an update answering follow-up questions from this post. We've also pasted the content of that post below.
Kickstarter announced that it's prohibiting product renderings in the Hardware and Product Design categories, but "rendering" can mean a lot of things. What does Kickstarter mean?
To clarify, we mean photorealistic renderings of a product concept. Technical drawings, CAD designs, sketches, and other parts of the design process will continue to be allowed. Seeing the guts of the creative process is important. We love that stuff. However renderings that could be mistaken for finished products are prohibited.
Do the new guidelines mean that Kickstarter will only accept Hardware and Product Design projects with finished products?
Not at all. We simply ask creators to share with backers exactly what's been done so far, show how the product currently works, and explain how it will be completed. In short, we expect creators to show their work. Backers have shown that they're happy to get involved in projects that are in earlier stages when the creator is clear about the remaining work and their ability to complete it.
Do the new guidelines apply beyond Hardware and Product Design projects that are developing new products?
No. The new guidelines only apply to Hardware and Product Design projects that are developing new products. These guidelines do not apply to Design projects like the LowLine and +Pool or Hardware projects like Stompy: The Giant Rideable Walking Robot. Why? They aren't developing new products that backers are expecting in their mailboxes.
How will Kickstarter know whether something is a simulation or rendering?
We may not know. We do only a quick review to make sure a project meets our guidelines. If an obvious simulation or photorealistic rendering is spotted during that review, that project will not be allowed to launch. If a simulation or photorealistic rendering is discovered after a project launches, that project will be canceled. Everyone should continue to use their best judgment when deciding whether or not to back a project.
Kickstarter announced that Hardware and Product Design rewards could only be offered in single quantities. What if my product works best as a pair or as a set of five?
As we noted in the announcement, sensible sets are fine. If your piece of hardware is best offered as a set of five, that's okay, however you couldn't also offer it as a single piece. Creators will have to decide what works best for their project.
Final thoughts?
We created Kickstarter so more creative work could exist in the world, and last week's changes are in service of that mission. We're confident that these updates will lead to an even better Kickstarter. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us, and thanks for being a part of it!
Michael WalkoSuperbackeron
I like this, I felt like in the last year kickstarter was becoming less about struggling creative people and more about established companies wanting to take zero risk on a venture.
Dan on
I bet more electronics projects will be failing to get funded, since they rely on minimum quantities before they can get the product in question produced.
I also feel this is KickStarter's 'digg moment' as a pervious poster mentioned. Just like Digg's changes forced people to find other sites such as Reddit because they refused to accept they were wrong, this is going to force people to evaluate their options when it comes to crowdfunding.
It's so simple to automatically add a 'PROOF OF CONCEPT' banner on any image (KS staff can easily verify this in seconds, since they already approve each project), there is absolutely no reason to punish both the creator and backer.
Everyone else has already said what I think about this, I just hope KS will reconsider these changes.
Jeroen Depuydt on
Perhaps you should disallow video as well. Who knows a good speaker will hurdle those innocent backers into backing a project that isn't that nice after all...
I don't agree with disabling renders _at all_. You're not going to an investor with a crappy prototype - even though it works perfectly. You show both rendering _and_ back up your hardware/programming work with relevant information.
It's great that you want to make it more clear that people are not necessarily buying a product, but supporting a (new?) company/project/dream, but you should revise and test how to do this best. Hope you revise your decision after finding other sensible ideas to do this.
JR Sanchez on
Please reconsider the rendering rule and the quantity rule. Many backers want rewards for them and their family/friends. Thank you!
EpicSesh on
If there's a problem with projects not delivering the goods, then lets put in place a sellers contract to all backers in if I miss my delivery date, I get X days to cure my missed deadline, after which backers can request (and get) a refund on their purchase. If they want to stay and wait for product, they can, but this requires the project to deliver on their timeline and also provide a more realistic timeline. I will gladly make our project the first one to operate under this proposed rule/contract and leave the new rules announced today in the dustbin. (the risks/challenges part of the KS page was great tho - keep that) ;-)
Tiffany Ross on
Kickstarter's not a store, yet I don't see ANY rules about companies coming onto Kickstarter with projects they explicitly state they are posting to get into production FASTER, as in, these products are going to come out regardless of if their Kickstarters succeed or not, because they will have the funding in the future. They are using Kickstarter AS a storefront between them and the customer. Hmmm... no rules against that and that's far more of an issue in the 'store' argument, because they have an established and continuing base of participants.
Charles Waugh on
Interesting article over at Forbes about the ZionEyez video-glasses project that has not shipped, nor communicated well: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/08/20/the-truth-about-kickstarter-and-zioneyez/
Is there a problem with ZionEyez? YES!
Might the backers lose some money? YES!
Might there be a lawsuit? YES!
Did all the backers understand the risks when they backed the project? NO!
QUOTE from the article: "...Kickstarter arguably doesn't make it clear enough to backers what it means to back a product. Backers are NOT backing companies, they are backing ideas about things that it MIGHT be possible to do or make. There's no way for Kickstarter or the people making the pitch to guarantee that any given idea is as good or as practical as it seems." [emphasis added]
THAT is the issue, plain and simple.
Will there be issues with some projects? YES!
Will some backers lose a small amount of money? YES!
That's called RISK.
And risk is what the CREATORS do when they start the project - they take a huge risk of their time and money and are willing to let others in on it for a small amount of money and a small reward.
My take on the new guidelines:
> The 'Risks and Challenges' section is only as good as the creators can write and the backers believe.
> Restricting renderings and simulations is shortsighted and silly. The idea of raising funds is to say: "This is what we want to do - help us get there because we can't so it alone! Yes, it's risky, but we think that with YOUR HELP we can do it!"
> Restricting lot size to ONE - terrible, terrible, terrible. That cuts the backer's interest level AND the creator's ability to get to volume BOTH.
All in all, a bad idea that assumes the creators are the only problem and absolves the backers of the requirement of thinking.
Jodi Chen Gramigni on
Love the changes. Kickstarter is for creative thinkers and that is exactly what you are promoting. Bravo!
Radast Design on
Can you please provide further clarification about the use of renderings. For our kickstarter campaign we feature only real photographs of our completed prototype, but we also use CAD renderings to explain detail/functionality that can't be done in a photo (without cutting our product in half). We also use one rendering to make the point that our design can be produced in custom colors. The rendering shows the prototype exactly as it is built, just in a different color. Is this still not allowed? We truly appreciate any clarification that you can provide, and we also support the new changes! This is a wonderful medium and we applaud your efforts to improve it and to protect the interests of creators and backers alike!! Thank you.
Shawn Swift on
Fluffy: You clearly have no idea how much work goes into producing a hardware product. I was working for three months full time on my project before I launched it on Kickstarter, and by that point I still only had hundreds of pages of notes, schematics, and 3d renderings of my circuit boards to show for it. Three months after my project ended, I'm still working full time on it, and I still don't have an assembled board to show for it, because designing circuit boards involves a whole lot of cad work, and only once all that is complete can you move on to actually producing the prototype, which I am finally getting to this week after all my months of effort.
And it is your choice what you invest in. If you don't want to invest in a project because there's no prototype, that's your decision to make, but you shouldn't doom hundreds of projects by forcing your choice on others.
becca on
I have backed 17 projects on Kickstarter, 11 of them were $50+ contributions. I am a big believer in Kickstarter and the potential it presents. I want to support people that are figuring out how to make their product. And I want to get some of these products in the end. I wouldn't, out of the goodness of my heart, pledge someone 5 times what I was considering pledging, because I don't have the kind of money to just plain donate to someone. But if I know I'll receive something for that money sometime when a product is eventually produced, I can justify the up-front cost, and give multiples to friends, which is a great way to spread the word about Kickstarter.
Kickstarter is not a store, it is an investment in creativity. And the reward system means that you receive something for that return. Why should we not be allowed to invest more and receive more? Why should I not be allowed to increase awareness of Kickstarter and the creative products that result by sharing them with the world?
Also want to quote a few other people here, who said it better than I could have.
"This policy shift is a clear statement from Kickstarter that they fail to understand what they've really created - an amazing pre-purchase storefront for emerging projects that wouldn't exist without the shared financial risk of early adopters. Risk = reward(s). A simple concept for most."
"A lot of hardware projects need minimum orders to enter into mass production economically and allowing someone to order 2 or more can make it much easier / cost effective to reach that goal."
"your policy still clearly states that Creators must A. deliver or B. offer refunds. As long as that is there, there's no legal grounds for 'Risks and Challenges'"
"Finally, as many have noted, by forcing a creator to have a working prototype in hand before listing a project, it has essentially become a store and not a place to gain backing for a idea. They might as well just start their own website or sell on Etsy or something, and not give you and Amazon your cut. These rules may potentially end the design and hardware portion of Kickstarter as they leave or other crowd funding sites. If so, that is too bad, since Kickstarter is the best one out there."
Malachi de AElfwealdSuperbackeron
I have spent over $2k on 53 projects. I think I should have some say on whether I'd rather see a CAD mockup (which I might consider) or just text with no images (which I would NOT back). Since the renderings are a normal part of the design process, I think it is inane to prohibit them. Saying that you can only show finished products is like demanding that you *only* use Kickstarter as a store.
I guess the only good that comes out of this is that the Kickstarter company itself will get a smaller cut of my paycheck.
Kouture Crochet on
Yes, that's life. It's hard. So what?
And just as backers have a choice to not back projects, creators that are too lazy or too whiny or too "it's hard to get a prototype working waaaah" can always get funding for their ideas some other way.
Yes, I sound like a total jerk. But I am way nicer than any investor would be if you gave them a drawing and said now give me money. That's the way it is. Maybe it's not fair, but when you ask people for money you should show a working prototype.
Cutter on
You have to allow for renderings and simulations but simply make certain that there are written (and in the the case of video written and verbal) disclaimers stating that this what the creator visualizes the end product to look like. Anyone ever involved in the production product knows that there's generally a very great deal of difference between prototype and finished product. It's difficult to sell people merely on words alone.
agpage on
I like to goal, but the implementation is WAY off. I would much rather Kick-starter add some custom disclaimer to the pledge process, and limit the total permitted pledges.
I have backed 2 projects. One was a book I am still waiting on. The other was a custom LEGO accessory. Since they hole point of the project was to pay for the mold, these rules are silly. Yes, they could have done a custom print on a 3D printer, but it would have had NO bearing on their ability to deliver product.
My Vote, Keep trying Kickstarter.
Joshua Megerman on
Thus far I haven't had a KS project go "bad" on my, though I have had a few delayed (and several others are still on the long road to delivery, but not yet late). I think the Risks and Challenges section is an excellent addition, and serves to demonstrate that KS projects are not guaranteed. But I think the other two changes are questionable, at least as absolutes:
1) Renders and other concept art can show not just the planned idea, but the evolution of how the project got to where it is, and where it hopes to go. I do think any non-photograph needs to be labeled as such, but it's very easy to take a picture of a mock-up and call it the real thing too. Also, concept art can be used to get feedback from the backers which ultimately can change the course of the project to be something better than originally planned.
2) As many people have stated, sometimes quantity is a requirement to make a project viable. Having 1000 backers each getting 1 copy of something might not be financially worthwhile, but if the backers wanted 2500 of them it might. While I do think that sane limits on quantity makes sense (e.g., no wholesale-sized orders), but if someone wants a half-dozen of something that could still be reasonable.
Hopefully you will continue to evaluate your policies and their effects on projects, and can revise them again to provide a reasonable and viable middle position that accommodates the majority of both creators and backers.
David Snell on
These proposed changes seem like a bad idea to me also. Risks... Ok. Although people that have worked them all out in advance often mention their contingencies in their offering. As a backer of many projects most of which are hardware or design I have to disagree with the render and multiple items rules. While I often do not get multiple, some projects I have and would want to. I do not favor the "retail packs" some projects offer as rewards but in those cases I usually avoid those projects. The renders really rubs me the wrong way though. I do most of my own designs in renders (work and home) before I make a prototype. It costs a lot of money to get some things prototyped and not everyone is lucky enough to have a 3D printer, decent tools, or the ability to make a circuit board on their own. By requiring a prototype it seems that Kickstarter is hurting the smaller projects and individual concepts disproportionately.
Tom Byrer on
Oh, thanks to Richard NL, I've uncovered a clue why KS is making such drastic measures; Hanfree was drastically underfunded & now one of the partners is being sued. They did have a real-life working prototype, but during refinement (which took too long after) increased their Bill of Materials & costs for mass production exponentially.
So I don't really blame KS for making the moves, though I still believe that they are too heavy-handed. Here are some points I think KS, backers, & creators need to take:
+ Bill of Materials
Creators tend to grossly underestimate this, esp for smaller runs. I think KS should force creators to list a semi-detailed BOM.
+ Lack of profit
Risk + time = profit, that is how life works. People need to understand ALL their time (posting, promotion, testing, shopping for manufacturers) is valuable.
Kickstarter = grass roots angel *investing*
Many investments & business fail. I think 1 int 10 do really well, & half are lucky if they do OK. Everyone needs to know that there is a decent risk of failure with any venture. You can lower risks by research, but be realistic.
Gregg Housh on
Most people have said it better than I feel I could on here. These changes are horrible. Reverse them or lose a LOT of the funders and watch a LOT of projects not get funded.
Vasilios Lazaris on
If we show the actual sample of our product, can we also show a rendering too?
I ask because the footwear rendering I have offers an "exploded" view which shows the inner workings of the footwear that otherwise could not be seen with my actual sample.
Scott Van Zile on
As a designer on a severely limited budget, the ability to use renders to express a form and a function allows me to not have to pay for tooling and manufacture costs for a run of 1 unit, or pay a prototyper to make me something. which is part of the purpose of the kickstarter in the first place. For projects with tight tolerances and thicknesses that aren't able to be 3D printed, this puts a severe limit on the ability to demonstrate functionality simply because of the cost associated with getting the project to a point that we can present it as a feasible product.
Bill Trammel on
I understand the reasoning behind these changes. However, removing the ability to use renderings at all seems a bit extreme. As long as the rendering is clearly defined as such, the same purpose is accomplished. Professional design firms use renderings all the time, because they're cheap to produce and accomplish most of what is needed for proof of concepts. For some products, there is no way to demonstrate what the final product will look like without raising the money (to produce the molds, parts, etc. ). This creates a chicken/egg problem, which in my opinion ultimately ends up with less money for the creators and, as a result, Kickstarter.
Scott Van Zile on
How can one be expected to sell an idea without one of the basic components of marketing, which is the visualization of a finished product?
Barry Beams on
The distinction between live working mechanical drawings versus only an artist's rendition is not being stated, and I urge the blog monitors at KS to add this differentiation to the policy description.
Mechanical drawings of a from Solidworks, Inventor, ProE, etc, are the actual CAD design. Used in conjunction with pictures of prototyped parts, they help the prospective backer to see the form and function of the actual design..
Artist's renditions, however, are pure artwork, which can be made very misleading since the function doesn't need to be included. If the intent is to prevent misleading artistic renditions, and the distinction from actual mechanical design drawings in included, then the policy is sound.
Stephanie Clarkson on
FluffyKitten: actually, you do not sound like a jerk. But you are *exactly* depicting the badly informed attitude that made Kickstarter decide to do this ill-thought out thing which makes Kickstarter into a pre-order store, and not a place to invest.
It's great if a creator has a prototype that is working in their garage. I want to see that. But I also want to see what the creator will do when they get to bring the product to market. They *cannot* do that right now, THAT IS THE POINT OF KICKSTARTER. Renderings are the only way to show me what this garage made item will be. If I see the final prototype that is ready to go to market, and I back *that*, then Kickstarter is a store.
I have invested through kickstarter based on 'here's a drawing of what I want to achieve'. You are actually being very silly if you don't think that is how startups some times *have to* work, and I am not sure that there is any common ground here, because you are really misguided about how first round funding usually works in tech (both software and hardware). I genuinely have no idea how to tell you that what you are describing will kill most ideas.
When I have started an idea, I go to my friends, and I say, "Let me describe this for you." I tell people about it. I make sketches. When doing software, I have often made walk throughs that would simulate the process, so people can get a feel for what I want to do. Simulations, rendering and prototypes are *how people show* their vision. It's the most basic way that we tell someone, "I have an idea."
Terry Cabeen on
In the interest of having my comment completely lost in this massive pile of comments, I'm really disappointed in the rendering rule for hardware projects. I think this would have negatively impacted the campaign of (for one example) Pebble. For hardware projects, the goal is to attain the level of funding required to make attractive, usable prototypes. The first hardware product I helped fun, b-squares, turned out to be a phenomenal disappointment of shoddy build quality and laughable lack of oversight. Even the product info sheets included with each square were wrong. The front was for one square, and the information on the back was from another square entirely.
And yet I continue to back hardware projects that show early prototypes and product renderings. Why? Because I want to see these things come to fruition. I want that beautiful rendering to become a beautiful product, and I'm willing to put my money behind that wish.
If it doesn't work out, then I can chalk it up to whatever I want, because I pledged my money with high hopes and low expectations.
Now, I can see what you're trying to achieve with the rest of the goals, even if I don't adore them all (like forbidding multiples), but banning hardware renderings just seems like it would cripple otherwise brilliant projects.
Ken May on
No rendering or product simulations is a bad idea. You state that "Kickstarter is not a store" but now developers will be forced to have complete polished products to show for their backers. This leads backers to believe this is a store and not a unique startup system. I think the ability to show people your vision and the components you have come up with so far makes kickstarter unique and not the other way around.
Dave Zucker on
As a frequent backer and potential creator, I'm not happy with some of these changes.
I fully support adding a Risks and Challenges section, and also a notification to backers that Kickstarter is not a store.
However, disallowing renderings, simulations and multiple quantity rewards is severely limiting, and will result in an overall drop in quality of the projects posted.
Renderings and simulations - Kickstarter is effectively preventing projects from accurately communicating what the features of a product will. Why not go the next logical step and prevent projects from even describing what they will do? "You can only write about what a prototype can do at the time of writing, not what the final version will do," seems like a overly-limiting rule, right? Disallowing renderings & simulations is effectively the same thing.
Multiple versions - I get that these are essentially bigger risks for backers, but an outright ban on this seems draconian. Perhaps Kickstarter could add a new category of rewards - essentially a "higher risk" set of rewards. This category could come with extra warnings. Another mechanism to deal with this would be to add penalties for creators who fail to deliver on rewards in this category - if the creators don't want that extra responsibility, they could choose not to create any rewards with penalties.
Kickstarter: you have done so much right, please reconsider some of these changes.
amix on
You shoot yourself into the feet. It's simple: People (they are the ones who bring the money) WANT to shop on Kickstarter. I started as a simple supporter and pledger, now I feel I am a shopper for state of the (he)art products. It's a wonderful side-effect and getting things pre-production to a much (sometimes) lower price gives people a real reward. This does shape the character of Kickstarter further. You should not try to work against it, but cultivate it, so it does not get out of hand. Don't work against it, work with it.
Oh, and the old web-design was much more user-friendly. You are not very user friendly at all, atm. Comments could be much better organized, for example.
Bobby Davis on
One of the thrills of backing a Kickstarter project is watching the project develop from a napkin sketch to a full on tangible product. I love watching the creative process unfold.
I don't think those that advocate the "prototype required" rule have any idea of what it cost to have a prototype made. Sure, spending money on a prototype makes the creator have some "skin" in the game, but for many creators who need a "kickstart", it's going to be a choice of Prototype or Rent.
Like the old saying goes, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.".
Too bad that a few high profile "fail to deliver" projects make it harder on Kickstarter and the Kickstarter community.
GIR: Get It RightSuperbackeron
@kickstarter I have a technical question related to the new Risks and Challenges section. I can't find the answer anywhere on the KS site. I'm trying to build line breaks and/or bullets into the "Risks and Challenges" section of my about-to-launch project. After all, I'm outlining the challenges we faced! But any formatting (including spaces and line breaks) is simply eaten up by the editor -- not saved. Can you guys add the same WISYWIG formatting options to the R&C section as there are in the Project Description? I understand why no HTML is accepted, although some simple options like < p > and < /br > would be a welcome alternative. Right now, that section looks very jumbled on my page! I'm quite close to submitting it for approval, and would really appreciate your guidance.
Greg Kaminski on
While I understand the reasoning behind prohibiting simulations and renderings, doesn't that contradict the purpose of Kickstarter? Small-quantity development and manufacturing of custom components for prototypes are expensive. Isn't that one of the reasons you would use Kickstarter? Otherwise, it's just pre-ordering. Am I missing something?
Kirke LawtonSuperbackeron
I'm fairly new to Kickstarter, having funded 4 successful projects, none of which has delivered anything (nor have they missed any deadlines). Having said that I have told people that I LOVE Kickstarter, but frankly I was a little surprised by the "Kickstarter is not a store" line. That's what tells me that this is a critical campaign. Kickstarter does feel like a store. I think the spirit of these changes are spot on; I'll let others comment on the specifics.
The one thing I would recommend is that you add "Kickstarter is not a store" to the home page and feature it on every page--and not in some ironic, cutesy way (not that you would). Every page should also include a bold statement like "Not every funded project will succeed, by supporting a project you are helping someone develop something new, but there is a real possibility that the project will fail and you will not receive what was promised/intended." That is a 100% true statement, that would surprise many supporters and cause them to think twice. That's the point.
Keep up the great work.
John Harding on
I'm just a backer, not a creator. I've backed 7 projects. 1 got funded, realize he couldn't do it and gave refunds. 1 other delivered - but much later than anticipated - but communication was good so I didn't mind at all. The other 5 are still in process.
I think all you need is the Risks and Challenges section and more concentration on the KS site in general that this is a funding / investment site.
Other than that, as someone else put it - the individual investor can make all the other decisions for themselves.
I suppose putting a watermark disclaimer on renderings "rendering not actual product" wouldn't be a bad idea. (Always make me laugh when I see that on food boxes "serving suggestion", "magnified product" etc. Wow, I was expecting 3" square cheez its and I only got these pesky little things!)
I understand that KS wants to protect it's idea and it's brand. It needs to weed out some of the bad apples. But that's probably best handled by some form of longer lasting agreement between KS and the creator (if you're found to be fraudulent then KS should be able to throw it's weight behind suing you - after all bad apples ruin the community).
I wonder if KS is receiving outside pressure to change?
However, even with all these restrictions in place I still love KS - maybe one day I'll post my Mr. Fusion project...
Lucas Jensen on
Am I crazy, or will this "no renders" thing force Kickstarter to become MORE store-like? People will have to have working prototypes if not finished products to be able to show something to potential funders, which is more like selling a product than an idea.
Stephanie Clarkson on
Lucas: Bingo. You're not crazy.
T123 on
Kickstarter has now got it BACKWARDS; and I sure hope I'm not the cause of this...
For months now, I have been saying that, indeed, Kickstarter is becoming and acting more and more like a "store" ... a pre-sales platform, particularly for gadgets. I warned that more and more "Backers" were really acting and believing they were "Consumers/Purchasers" of the products offered at the various "Reward" levels. The problem with "acting" like a store, but not actually "being" one... is that Kickstarter is not taking any responsibility for fulfillment, returns, sales tax, etc.. In fact, Project Creators have absolutely no obligation to deliver their rewards ... they could be late, poor quality, or simply disappear.
So what's the solution? Disallow renderings and simulations? No... I think renderings are more like what Kickstarter was intended for -- i.e., to fund creative projects. Creative projects start with an "idea" (e.g., renderings and simulations ... or music, art), that then need to be turned into physical form.
The more practical suggestions I recommend:
(1) Limit the number of items that can be used as rewards. Again -- Kickstarter is a FUNDING platform, not a PRE-SALES platform. {Or stop lying about its purpose.}
(2) Limit the amount a Project can fund over its initial Goal to 2x that Goal. This makes Projects pick realistic Goal amounts that are not "too small", since if they low-bar their Goals, they limit the potential over-funding; but if they make the Goal "too large" (in order to maximize that 2x over-funding amount...), then the Project has a greater risk of failing to meet the Goal. To me, this is a perfect balance.
Steve King on
I'm the developer of the HAND Stylus Kickstarter project... If you look at my project video, you'll see I had a pre-production prototype and that I also showed 3D renderings of the HAND Stylus to better explain internal mechanisms, features, functions, and to illustrate the full scope of the design process—going from concept sketches, to mechanical drawings, through 3D CAD work, to rapid printed rough prototype, to finished machined prototype. Are you saying this is no longer allowed? I think what I demonstrated in my project video showed I had a mastery of ALL the steps necessary to go from concept to completion. If I understand you correctly, I'm now required to show fewer steps rather than more. CAD work and renderings are integral to modern, computer-aided product development and instills confidence in a designer's capabilities. I'm all for disclaimers, warnings, etc., and I could probably live with the restriction of offering just single items for rewards; and I heartily agree with those who point out that non-product rewards are more likely to prove to be distractions, costly, and time consuming; but asking a product designer to not use disclaimed CAD renderings in addition to prototypes will, IMHO, create more problems than it solves. I would suggest you convene a meeting with a dozen of your most highly successful project designers and really work through a solution to the Caveat Emptor dilemma. Please reach out to your most successful product developers and prolific backers (I've backed nearly two dozen projects in addition to being a developer) for input. A well-considered course correction would go a long way to reestablishing confidence that your "New Rules" were subject to refinement in light of input from backers and developers . Please reach out... please stay flexible... please foster creativity rather than choking it off... and, yes, make sure the buyer is aware of the risks and understands that Kickstarter is NOT a store. I think you're moving in the right direction... but that you're course should be corrected. Regards, Steve King
Joshua JabbourSuperbackeron
Yep, I don't see how this will make Kickstarter less of a store. If the only product or hardware I can kickstart is something I already have completely designed and fabricated, then only finished products will be offered. So there will be both: a) less hardware products overall and b) only completed ones, ie what you could already buy in a store. A may be the goal here, but I can't even begin to see how B makes Kickstarter less of a store...
JC Wright on
Kickstarter: You've heard it once, you'll hear it 1000 times. You're wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. The only thing you got right (which you're also going to hear 1000 times) is the Risk section. You'll still have people who lie and misrepresent but you can't stop that. You just can't.
My BIGGEST gripe is with the quantity issue. I recently supported LIFX. If I had the money I would be pledging at a sufficient level to do my WHOLE HOUSE which would require approximately 20 bulbs. Unfortunately I can't quite afford that yet so I only got two...with the hopes that this support will allow them to further refine the concept so that in a year or two or three I can buy 18 other bulbs for a fraction of the cost. Now while I wasn't able to purchase more than 2, I know many other people were. And honestly, when you look at their concept what the hell good is ONE LIGHT BULB. You're screwing up Kickstarter. If you don't fix it, someone else will be happy to collect the 5% from all the tech/design companies that are basically being shown the door. Who knows... maybe it will be me?
Micheal T on
I had to create a Kickstarter account to just say that the new rules are very bad and hinder creativity. I understand the end goal but Kickstarter just remove a vital tool from the creator that can't render simulated or rendered images? What about the people that have spent thousands of dollars on renders before this God awful policy! Now they have to spend another thousand dollars for a working SLA model and those things are expensive! Kickerstarter just killed a lot of hardware projects. I think a time frame of the first of the year would have been better instead of slamming future projects in the face. Sorry for the rant but this new policy is not good for the community.
Manuel Desrochers on
I'm not completely against this new sets of rules but I think you should revise/loosen some of them.
Risks and challenges section : absolutely yes. Very important to let the backers know about the riskier parts of making a new product.
Simulations and Renders: I think it should be allowed but only if you have a physical prototype to show or if you can demonstrate some of the "real life" work you did to get there. Renders and simulations should be duly identified.
Multiple items rule: I think this should be left to the discretion of the backers if they still want buy multiple items and help the project to get funded faster after reading the new Risks and Challenges section... ; ) It's already very hard for project owners to get people to visit and back the project so they should be able to offer larger rewards if wanted.
No matter what these new guidelines will need to be explained and detailed with specific examples.
Jake Dunham on
Understand changes will increase the effect of less "faked" projects. but GREATLY reduce ideas and concepts that are closer to production values. I think it would be better to have a deposit or a liability claim for each project so that creators / projects need a minimum pledge amount to submit their designs and this will protect Kickstarter from fraudulent projects. That also comes with some issues like deposit amount per project / type of project, liability amount in general, But i still feel this may resolve this issue with the rules. By completely blocking product images and simulations and forcing people to show final images; many projects will not make it to the site, and therefore we will see less great ideas and concepts.
The whole purpose of Kickstarter is to come as a community and support your fellow creator to get your projects up and running when you (the creator) may not have the resources to start it.
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