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With the US and China now having agreed to limit their emissions – and China committing to peak CO2 releases by 2030 – the biggest unanswered question now in climate change is this: what will India do? India's leadership responded warily to the China-US deal, and the reason is not hard to fathom. India has immense quantities of coal, and intends to burn much of it over coming decades to accelerate its development.
A quick look at the stats highlights this dilemma. India is immensely energy-poor – it has 300 million of its citizens without access to modern energy supplies, dependent on fuelwood they can gather, often burning dung and charcoal in their houses at a cost of many thousands of premature deaths per year due to indoor air pollution. India also has the world's fifth-largest coal reserves, and the Modi government is making plans to liberalise the state-dominated and highly inefficient (and corrupt) coal mining sector.
So India will burn more coal – the question is how much, and for how long. As the New York Times reports in a recent story:
"India's development imperatives cannot be sacrificed at the altar of potential climate changes many years in the future," India's power minister, Piyush Goyal, said at a recent conference in New Delhi in response to a question. "The West will have to recognize we have the needs of the poor."
Mr. Goyal has promised to double India's use of domestic coal from 565 million tons last year to more than a billion tons by 2019, and he is trying to sell coal-mining licenses as swiftly as possible after years of delay. The government has signaled that it may denationalize commercial coal mining to accelerate extraction.
"India is the biggest challenge in global climate negotiations, not China," said Durwood Zaelke, president of the Institute for Governance & Sustainable Development.
The New York Times story also illustrates some of the devastating human and environmental consequences of poorly-regulated and low-tech opencast coal mining which is typical in India:
The city of Dhanbad resembles a postapocalyptic movie set, with villages surrounded by barren slag heaps half-obscured by acrid smoke spewing from a century-old fire slowly burning through buried coal seams. Mining and fire cause subsidence that swallows homes, with inhabitants' bodies sometimes never found.
Suffering widespread respiratory and skin disorders, residents accuse the government of allowing fires to burn and allowing pollution to poison them as a way of pushing people off land needed for India's coal rush.
"The government wants more coal, but they are throwing their own people away to get it," said Ashok Agarwal of the Save Jharia Coal Field Committee, a citizens' group.
So the conundrum is this: if India burns billions of tonnes of its own coal to reduce poverty and accelerate its economic growth, the resulting emissions will undoubtedly push the entire planet towards a hotter future than would otherwise be the case. If the US-China deal, plus the EU's 40% cut, more or less keep the world on the IPCC's RCP 4.5 pathway, India's surge in coal-burning would likely push us closer to RCP 6.0 (see graph below), and resulting temperature increases of 3C or more. This is especially the case if future emissions from Africa and other less-developed areas in Asia are factored in.
On the other hand, if India decides not to burn much coal in future in order to limit emissions, development could be slowed and hundreds of millions would remain in poverty longer than otherwise.
Climate activists try to resolve this dilemma by insisting that India could move straight to renewables, and indeed India already has a substantial solar programme. But solar is still much more expensive than coal, and is unproven as a reliable source of electricity for entire countries: to put all energy eggs in the renewables basket would clearly be a massive risk for India's leadership. Climate campaigners 350.org recently had an 'India Beyond Coal' day of action, supported by assertions such as this:
Our excessive dependence on coal threatens a future where we can pull millions of Indians out of poverty. Rising costs of coal, reduced availability, excessive deforestation, negative health impacts and the climate crisis are strong reasons to begin the transition towards renewable energy and energy efficiency.
I really don't think this is true. The costs of poverty – which includes millions of preventable deaths of young children, lack of access to water and sanitation, reduced livelihood prospects, large-scale hunger and malnutrition, and so on… are clearly much greater than the direct costs of coal burning, and this equation probably still holds even when the future damages from climate change are factored in.
The proof of this is right on India's border in the shape of China's coal-based development miracle. China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in recent decades, and made such immense strides in its development index that it alone has helped the world achieve most Millennium Development Goals – all based on a manufacturing boom almost entirely fuelled by coal.
Indeed, I would go so far as to suggest that the best way for poorer countries to protect themselves against future climate change might not be to reduce their emissions, but to use as much energy as possible – including from coal – in order to develop richer and more resilient societies. There is a very good reason why hurricanes of an equivalent ferocity kill thousands in a country like Myanmar or Haiti, but only a few dozen at most in the US or Australia. To be poor is to be vulnerable, even in today's climate. The fact that only 'climate sceptics' tend make this point currently is somewhat shameful.
That is why I have a queasy feeling when I see climate campaigners insisting that money should not be spent on supporting coal projects even in the poorest countries like India and Bangladesh. Remember, for any collective action problem like climate change to be solved, the solution must be perceived by all parties to be fair – and it clearly is not fair to insist that India stop burning coal when its per capita emissions are a tenth of those in the US, and historical cumulative emissions (the ones that really matter for the climate) even lower still proportionately.
I really don't see how people in industrialised countries can oppose coal in India or Bangladesh when their own lives are still highly dependent on the world's most-polluting fuel. In Britain we are still burning 30-40% coal for electricity generation. In the US the proportion is similar. In 'green' Germany it is even higher, and Germany is only stopping subsidising its coal mines in 2018 at the insistence of the EU. As a commenter in the New York Times piece put it:
"The gluttons shouldn't pontificate to the emaciated about the virtues of dieting."
Maddeningly, the same environmentalists who oppose coal in India have also opposed the largest alternative clean and sustainable energy source – nuclear. There were enormous protests last year, fomented by Western-funded Indian NGOs, against the opening of Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant in Tamil Nadu. Other proposed sites have been blocked or face years of expensive delays because of opposition.
So the upshot is: India's coal conundrum is real, whatever the wishful thinking of climate activists. Solar on its own will not provide sufficient power to run megacities and industrial revolutions. Without nuclear, India will need coal to develop – a lot of it. Yes, India could use more expensive renewable energy sources, but per dollar invested they deliver less energy than cheaper coal by definition. And moreover, so long as rich countries continue to burn a single tonne of coal in their own power stations – let alone millions of tonnes per year as currently – they are in no position to insist that the poor should be using more expensive power.
I hope however that India's leadership does not become too much of a blocking presence at the UNFCCC international climate negotiations. The principle of fairness – of so-called 'common but differentiated responsibilities' – is well-enshrined in the process, and no-one is about to force India to shutter its new coal stations at the point of a gun. India's leadership needs to take a sophisticated position that acknowledges its development needs but remains a partner in the worldwide mitigation effort. This will involve technology-transfer, renewables, nuclear, CCS and anything else we can come up with.
We're all in this together as a planet and as a species – but the need for fairness is one of our most universal and deeply-held values. If the rich start blaming the poor for causing climate change that will surely doom the international negotiations, and the planet, like nothing else.
60 Comments
What's the progress on getting India to adopt cleaner coal generation technologies, such as coal gasification? That would seem to be a sensible half-way step to weaning them off coal altogether.↓
Clyde, it might be sensible if there were low-cost, readily available and easily-applied cleaner coal technologies. I don't think that this is the case, even if it were, a cost-benefit analysis for India would not support measures which increase the cost of energy.
High developed countries should invest to speed up the price decrease of solar and batteries, so those become cheaper and will replace coal in India.
They have enough sun.
I agree with the sentiments expressed here. We must always remind ourselves that it pays to be rich in a storm.
A secondary issue is the structure of fossil fuel use in developing countries. Look at cement in China. Per-capita cement consumption there is 10 times what it is in Britain. And there is a similar situation with steel making. Zero-carbon steel and cement is not exactly just around the corner. In addition, these countries see energy consumption much more concentrated in industry, where again it is much difficult to decarbonise.
From an environmental point of view "leap-frogging" western economies straight to a low-carbon economy is desirable, but probably not possible. China now burns half a billion tonnes of coal each year to make steel. And if it wants to keep making that much steel it will have to keep using that much coal, more or less.
The US-China deal also raises serious problems of equity. India currently emits 1.5 tonnes of CO2 per-capita. China is at 7 tonnes. This deal means China's will likely peak above 10 tonnes. In this sense, the deal is a "game changer". It demonstrates just how high the bar is for developing countries. If everyone follows China's course – and how can we tell them not to? – the norm will now be above 7 tonnes per-capita. And 7 tonnes per-capita is the EU average.
As you say at the end fairness is the key here. If India, China or anyone else makes products for us, we should accept that some of these emissions are ours. The "polluter pays" argument is simple moral sophistry. The argument did not hold when we were importing cotton made by slaves in the American south and it does not hold today. Emissions accounting should switch to being on a consumption, not a production, basis.↓
And I should add that the sun also goes down in the megacities of Delhi, Bombay and Calcutta. Strangely, many environmentalists imagine that it does not.
"Emissions accounting should switch to being on a consumption, not a production, basis."
Interesting idea. Have there been any moves to this, do you know?
Robert, I also agree with Mark and said so at TEDxVienna Nov 1. Though I wrote THORIUM: energy cheaper than coal, the key technology that makes this possible is liquid fuel. A practical design for mass-producing enough such power plants to satisfy India is nearing completion. The Executive Summary (a bit technical) is posted at thorcon-energy.com.
With abundant, affordable electricity we can tackle other problems, too. Steel-making uses much coal in blast-furnace technology, but direct conversion uses much less coal. Reducing emissions from cement-making is more difficult, but possible by using electric plasma arc heating. But the low-hanging fruit is easy — replace coal-burning electric power plants with liquid fuel nuclear reactors, which can generate electricity at 3 cents/kWh.
the Thorium argument has been a top feature at blogs such as Brave New Climate for best part of a decade, promising cheap and abundant nuclear power, and a solution to nuclear waste. Where is this solution? If it were real, why wouldn't UK be building one of these new reactors?
They are not, they re still building expensive Gen III reactors with all their waste problems.
I would be in favour of nuclear power if it genuinely could, be a) cost competitive, b) avoid diificult to manage waste and proliferation and c) be scalable in the time frame required to address climate change .. which is now!
The only real options here are a combination of large scale quick to deploy renewables AND a reduction in energy use (through efficiency and reducing consumption).
Nothing else is going to cut it.
Indeed in the UK Moltex is designing a molten salt thorium reactor, with funding from John Durham who helped set up the Alvin Weinberg Foundation. The group I am affiliated with in the US has a ThorCon design that we would like to introduce into the UK. Terrestrial Energy in Canada and Flibe Energy in Alabama are both proceeding with designs.
check out on google – china is largest market for:
luxury goods, Jaguar/Landrover, Mercedes, BMW, etc,etc
maybe the West should ban selling goods that the Chinese don't need…
after all, we don't want to be blamed for their consumption (and vice versa?)
Chines car manufacturing, is now largest in the world (and they are not all for export either)
Great articel.
Just one thing, death from household air pollution is not counted in thousands, but in millinos.
I see you point, but I think «thousands» hides the scope of the problem.
Outdoor air pollution is counted in millions – approx 3.5 million according to WHO – attributable mostly to vehicular and stationary energy generation ie burning coal.
It makes no sense trying to reduce indoor air pollution using a technology that increases outdoor air pollution, when there aries very tried and tested technology that produces neither ie solar and wind
@george crisp
We agree that outdoor air pollution is a serious problem. I hope we can agree that indoor air pollution I a serious problem too. Fixing indoor air pollution with coal-burning obviously makes sense for people in India, and I can not say I blame them.
"when there aries very tried and tested technology that produces neither ie solar and wind"
Tried and tested are they? Can you tell us then where in the word this has actually succeeded? Germany is often used as an example off a country that has focused on wind and solar. The sad fact about German energy-policy is that the CO2-emissions is not going down, the amount of coal burnt is not going down, and the deaths form outdoor air pollution you allegedly care so much about is not going down either.
Thanks for your response.
all of the points/ questioms you raise are can be assessed or answered by published evidenced based sources.
I am pretty familiar with air pollution having written articles for publication and have given many talks to the public and my peers on this subject. There's no foubt that both indoor and outdoor air pollution are major global health problems. You are not correct in equating ondoor AP so closely with coal. Dung, wood and other comustibles are more prevalent. In India for example much would be achieved with new stove designs. The barriers are largely cultural and practical.
My understanding is that Germany coal use has declined over yhe last 7 years as has total electricity generation. Again this is testible and I am happy to ne corrected.
Europe is committed to reduce ambient AP and both the heslth impacts and consequent economic costs have been studied. Action on climate change has been shown yo be cost effective through health snd other cobenefits! We sctually save money and lives!
Increasing coal use in the developong world is lilely to have little or negative health benefit. I can provide published material supporting this
"Increasing coal use in the developong world is lilely to have little or negative health benefit. I can provide published material supporting this."
Given the many health-benefits of a high energy lifestyle this seems highly counter-intuitive. Does published material actually take all this things into account? You may be right, but I do find it hard to believe.
The evidence of industrialized economies powered by solar and wind would really be interesting. It may be technically possible, but I seriously doubt that it is economically and politically possible. My impression is that counties that have tried have gotten about the same results as Germany. You can find a graph of German electricity by fuel at http://www.iea.org/stats/WebGraphs/GERMANY2.pdf and total coal use at http://www.iea.org/stats/WebGraphs/GERMANY5.pdf. One could argue that it is a slight downward trend in coal-use over the 20 last years. But the trend is so week that Germany is using about the same amount of coal for energy production as it did 20 years ago. Even if we believe the most optimistic predictions for the so called German energy transition (and I really do not) facing out coal will take at least 30 more years. The French practically decarbonized its electricity supply in 15 years (http://www.iea.org/stats/WebGraphs/FRANCE2.pdf). The interesting thing is that if Germany had chosen the same solutions as France ore Sweden they could have stopped burning coal for electricity by now. It is of course true that coal use is not the only source of outdoor AP but it is a big one. So even if we believe the most optimistic proponents of the German energy transition the some of the people dying of asthma and lung cancer in the coal-smog of German cities are predictable victims of German energy policy.
Denmark is showing the way in CO2 reductions, reductions in coal use, etc.
There's no way after 18years and counting without warming that this deal is going anywhere.
The US have not agreed. A lame duck president based on no scientific evidence of any current warming has said …
And the only reason the Chinese signed up for this, is because they know Obama cannot deliver.
The real reality is that most countries have already given up any idea of reducing CO2 and are only given lip service to the idiot greens who think anything will ever come of these.
Wake up! Smell the oil …. because it's the oil companies who are funding this green non-science through their wind companies.↓
"A lame duck president based on no scientific evidence of any current warming has said … "
Thousands of scientists out there disagree with you. Care to tell us why they're wrong and you're not another right-wing windbag?
Great Mark Lynas! Human development will in the end help the environment, look at Europe. No human sacrifices based on unproven warming due to CO2.↓
One of the stories that is put about regarding rural electrification in India is that that the cost of poles and wires is so high that it would be cheaper to use distributed off grid PV rather than bring grid connection to all these villages.
I was curious about the substance of this and a bit of googling turned up some data on village electrification.
It seems that in reality 94.4% of villages are electrified where that is defined as at least 10% of dwellings having electricity as well as schools, health clinics, government offices etc.
At least to a first order approximation it looks like the claims of the off-grid crowd are wildly wrong and India is following the same path towards rural electrification as everywhere else and that the prospects of off grid PV seriously denting the growth of coal are not very good. PV may produce a useful amount of network support, but more than that remains problematic.↓
G'day Mark. To what extent do you think ENGOs are holding back nuclear development in India (and elsewhere); and what will it take to develop broad ENGO support for a mixed, cleaner global energy portfolio?↓
A typically thoughtful and independent article, Mark.
But "the world's most-polluting fuel" is arguably biofuel from South East Asia. Please recall the impacts that this and other large-scale 'renewables' such as mega-dams have – on wildlife and people. Many scientists see these as the greater environmental problems.
Your climate sensitivity assumptions are looking out-of-date.↓
Which comes first, Climate or the poor? Very simply, they are not mutually exclusive. If you use the bonanza of cheap fossil fuel to destroy the environment, then yes, we have a conundrum. However, if we use that cheap energy to restore the environment and its ecosystem services. (one of which is climate regulation and carbon sequestration). The way you do that is by changing the agricultural model.
When you do that you provide large numbers of jobs for the poor, and restore the function of the carbon cycle at the same time. Produce far more food too. Win for industry, win for the climate, win for the environment, win for the poor. Win for India. Everyone wins except Monsanto and their ilk.
The conundrum India has is in modeling their society after the western model instead of developing their own. They'd do far better developing their own. In other words keep their rural agricultural system largely in place, just adding to it part by part with organic technology and scientific advances, but rejecting agribiz. Yet at the same time embracing other sectors of industry in the cities where appropriate.
See the reason the industrial model in agriculture worked in the West, albeit temporarily, was that we had more land than people. We needed labor in the cities to build those industries and fight those wars. India is different. They have people. There is no labor shortage. What they need is appropriate technology that works in their unique society, not blindly copying the Western model every time.↓
Not many people know that mining in NW Europe initiated reforestry. Firstly because timber was needed in mines but secondly because with abundant cheap coal available, people did not need to burn forests anymore. The biggest copper mine in Sweden, Stora, had planted so much acreage that they are now the biggest renewable paper producer. The discovery of petroleum around 1850 saved the whales, who otherwise had been hunted to extinction for their oil. Fossil fuels bring wealth and health.
Hello Hans,
You said, "Fossil fuels bring wealth and health." That isn't always true. But your point is valid. Fossil Fuels can bring Health and Wealth. But they can also bring poverty and sickness. It's a fundamental universal axiom that it is never the tool that is good or evil, it is in the use of that tool.
As long as their policy reflects the knowledge that for every bit of coal they burn, they need to sequester an equal amount of carbon in their soils, then they can become a leader of the world in appropriately applied technology. Failing that, they simply add to the mistakes we in the West made and are paying for now with climate change, dead zones in the oceans, contaminated air, food and water supply etc….
Scott, global warming is in its essence a problem for the rich, the rich of 2100. Because if you look carefully at the RCP8.5 scenario, in 2100 there are no poor countries left. People moved in the 1800 to the mines, why? To find work and to get rich as life in the countryside was harsh for the poor, much harsher than in the cities. Karl Marks was wrong, he wrote his book living on a pension, he never had to work in his life. Read Ridley's The rational optimist.
I have read parts of that book already. One of the best chapters contains a discussion about Holistic managed planned grazing. Here is a rancher in Australia that is using modern technology to restore failed ranches and return them to both profitability and productivity, with an added side benefit of sequestering large quantities of carbon in the soil. It takes full advantage of technology like electric fencing, steel manufacture, computerised technology in the handling gates and pens, etc… That's appropriate technology. Yes all those require FF use and mining, but they are put to a purpose to regenerate the environment. They are actually part of the fight against AGW, part of the fight to feed the world, and also profitable to the people involved, all simultaneously.
Your idea that AGW is a problem for the rich of 2100? Sorry, it is immoral for us to force our grandchildren to pay the cost for our destruction of the environment. Those environmental costs need addressed now by the same people who caused them. Which is why I expressed already to Mark, they are not mutually exclusive. It the cheap energy from fossil fuels is used to reverse climate change instead of cause climate change, then you can do both.
Talking about immorality: what is more immoral leaving a problem with the future rich to solve or force expensive measures for which the poor of the present have to pay. Every active CO2 limiting action is hurting the poor, be it by expensive fuel costs, expensive electricity costs or expensive food pricing. Recently the oil price dropped twenty percent, that is very good news for the poor. In the past, environmentalists were concerned with pollution of the present, now they are more concerned about the possible problems of the future rich. Pollution is a problem, CO2 is not a pollutant. Currently CO2 is not a problem: we have a mild warming, no increase in storminess, and a longer crop season. India has pledged to provide countrywide 24/7 electricity by 2019.
We have full rights to pick the current low hanging fruits and eat them ourselves. What would you say to a landowner if the poor came to buy cheap apples from his yard, and he would reply to them : "no these are not for you; they are for the rich of the future. Go and buy some expensive alternatives in the supermarket in the high street." Would that be a morally just act?
Do you understand the logic error in a false dichotomy? I ask this because that lat post set up more false dichotomies. For some reason you seem to be focused on choices A or B and ignoring the 1000's of other choices available.
Let me explain. You said, "Talking about immorality: what is more immoral leaving a problem with the future rich to solve or force expensive measures for which the poor of the present have to pay."
That is a false dichotomy because it ignores the fact that there are countless ways to address ecological issues that are not expensive and can help the poor without sacrificing the ecology for future generations. That means you can feed the world and help the poor and regenerate the ecology simultaneously. So while your two choices set op a false dichotomy of two bad unethical choices, and attempt to try and figure out which bad choice is less bad than the other, the true ethical choice is to reject both and instead use appropriate technology and business models. (reject both A and B and choose C instead)
There is no false dichotomy, there is only poor people of the present who need to get rich at the fastest possible route. Because every delayed year is killing people now, that's how serious it is. I visited Bangladesh in 1996. At the airport my taxi has to plough its way through litary thousands of people begging and knocking at my car window. I saw children literaly living in the gutter. I had a meal at a middle class house and at six oclock the electricity would shut down as it was rantioned over other parts of town. Scott, do you want jobs for the poor? Buy clothes manufactured in Bangladesh! You wrote the above post with 24/7 electricity, internet and a computer available. Every Bangladeshi should have it. Wealthy people are healthy people.
The only way that alternative solutions are presented as profitable, is by blowing up potential future adverse side effects of the cheaper options: coal and nuclear. "Oh but it will harm our grandchildren". I am urging you not to focus on the problems of the RICH and VERY WEALTHY people of 2100, there's nothing you can do about it as it is a boundary value problem and not an initial value problem. It's very easy to make a worst case projection: heck Malthus already made one in 1798! Please focus on the problems of the here and now.
The most ridiculous example of new technology was when I saw this lady in a shantyshed who was given a smartphone to monitor her PV system. The smartphone already was worth one local annual salary.
You want a win-win example? Plant trees. Provide solar stoves together with kerosene stoves, so people can cook also in the rainy season and don't get indoor smoke from wood stoves anymore.
There is nothing wrong with letting the future rich pay for us poor. It is fundamentally unethical to make the poor of this century pay for the rich of this century by promoting the very expensive alternatives. ("No bread? Let them eat cake"). Just ask yourself: how many lives can we save here and now. The future will take care of itself, it always has.
Did you ever wonder where those masses of starving poor came from? When an agribiz company like Monsanto following the industrial "green revolution" model, drives 1/2 the population off their farms because they are too small for the industrial business model…. in the name of helping the poor starving populations of the world, what happens? It creates more poor starving people than it helps. Much more. Then by destroying the ecological womb at the same time, it insures even more mass poverty into future generations.
That's why I have said from the beginning, nothing wrong with coal, it's the use you put it to that matters. Use that coal for energising a rural landscape that also values the small farmer (and associated infrastructure) and boosts yields per acre without driving them off the land..something small organic farming business models can do far better than conventional, and you have used that bonanza of cheap energy appropriately. Not only that, but intensive organic methodology can also reduce the country's carbon footprint by as much as, or in some cases even more than, what is released by the cheap fossil fuels, simply by sequestering that carbon in the soil. And that of course increases the yields per acre even more! Now suddenly you are in a positive feedback loop, each making the rest even stronger. Win for the environment, win for the economy, win for the poor, win for future generations, even a win for the wildlife. The whole country benefits when you address problems with a holistic framework like this.
But if you use coal inappropriately and ignorantly to try and "fix" your problems without looking at unintended emergent effects like ecological destruction, you end up in a negative feedback curve and more poor starving masses than you started with. Like trying to run up the down escalator! Lots of effort, little gain. And once you run out of energy, then all earlier hard fought gains quickly eliminated.
What you are saying is India must require a part of the population remain as farmers rather than following their passions in high tech or medicine or ??? This is perhaps the most frightening and elitist notion I can imagine.
Interesting new topic, Monsanto. Now if you would have read Ridley carefully, then you would have discovered that monopolies aren't free markets. So yes I don't agree with Monsanto's business model. OTOH, I don't think that directly subsidising ailing small farmers would be helping safeguarding a true free market and increasing efficiency lowers market price for the consumer by itself, monopolies and kartels are price increasers. And no, the beggars of 1996 in Bangladesh were not chased from their grounds by Monsanto – who wasn't in agro anyway then – they fled to the city hoping for a job, and you know what: They found it in the rapidly growing textile industry. The GDP of Bangladesh almost tripled since 1996.
Organic farming needs more acreage for the same yield, so with a rapidly growing population that means a direct assault on nature's reserves. So a bad idea. Carbon footprint is also a horrible metric. It's of the same logic as: "If everybody would live like a Roman landowner, there would not be enough slaves in the world"
"intensive organic" is an oxymoron. Using coal appropriate I can agree with, coking coal to make steel, steam coal with scrubbers to make electricity for everybody. So that everybody in the world can read our comments on this fine blog, and reply to the comments.
Mark needs to get some extra server space…
Who said that? Only you. Certainly not me. And the farmers committing suicide? They are not committing suicide because they are so excited about leaving the farm and entering high tech medicine. That's for sure. Maybe more because a corrupted short sighted elitist government influenced by Western models devalued the farmer and then drove them from their ancestral farms?
Hans Erren,
Who said anything about subsidizing small farmers? I am a conservative and a conservationist and a small farmer all rolled in one. Conservatives don't ask for subsidies, they fund their own ecology projects with the higher profits contained in a better managed landscape. I can easily compete with the big boys without subsidies. The big boys make a couple hundred dollars an acre and must have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in equipment to do that, meanwhile the land deteriorates. I make 10,000 dollars an acre with almost no equipment costs and my land gets better every year. In fact, here in USA it's the big boys who get the subsidies just so they have a chance to compete with the likes of me. Otherwise they'd all go bankrupt. But I can do this because I have accessibility to high tech infrastructure appropriately applied. I have rural electricity, good roads, electric fencing, clean water, internet, education etc… Now if you use the cheap coal to provide rural electrification. Then you have many possibilities for the small farmers in the way of pumps for water, refrigeration, heating, electric fencing, electric power tools, canning etc…. all of which can be used by the rural population to better themselves without needing subsidies. Just build the public infrastructure and educate the population on the new high tech intensive organic systems.
PS BTW organic and intensive are not oxymorons. Traditional and intensive are oxymorons. Organic is not the same as traditional. Some examples of intensive organic agricultural methods include System of Rice Intensification (SRI), Managed Intensive Rotational Grazing, Pasture Cropping, several polyculture and/or permaculture methods. Maybe it is you that need the education first? That way you could tell when your assumptions and long held belief systems are fundamentally flawed?
Happy to learn about intensive organic farming. I remember the old organic shop in the 80's with fruit and vegetables full of stains and in the corner those soft biscuits that were made without sugar.
I think we agree on coal!
You said, "Happy to learn about intensive organic farming." I'll post both Layman's citations and further in depth citations, one for the overview and the other for more scientific/working knowledge. Hope this helps:
SRI :http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/feb/16/india-rice-farmers-revolution and http://sri.ciifad.cornell.edu/
Managed Intensive Rotational Grazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYWYU5V8JOo&list=PLmwY2K-O1lmVe3ZPq1j3WwjjiUxOJZ0Ee and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI and http://learningstore.uwex.edu/assets/pdfs/A3529.PDF and http://www.savoryinstitute.com/media/40591/Savory_Institute_Carbon_RestoringClimateWhitePaper_April2013.pdf and http://www.grazingbestprac.com.au/research/grazing/AGEE3851%20Grazing%20management%20impacts%20in%20north%20Texas%20v12011.pdf
Pasture cropping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnDg-FJiOec and http://www.milkwood.net/2010/12/07/why-pasture-cropping-is-such-a-big-deal/ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khNprFGW0N8&list=PLmwY2K-O1lmVj69XENVjDNOHv8AtVQc2_
Various polyculture/permaculture methods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJk4R1xpMC8&list=PLmwY2K-O1lmUmMwoyjfZ8kkEAHqMy-olT and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apZJT-0BruU
I of course only scratched the surface. It would take years for you to educate yourself on just what I know, and I know just a tiny, tiny % of what's available.
But the most important thing to take from all this is that it's all about the soil. That soil needs carbon. Coal spews much carbon into the atmosphere. So potentially we could have an industrial model including fossil fuels and all the social benefits that brings, and also use that excess carbon to regenerate our soils. The problem is that industrial agriculture turns the carbon sink that is our soils into an additional emissions source. So both Fossil fuels AND our agricultural soils are flooding the atmosphere with too much carbon. It's unbalanced. Too much going in the air and not enough coming out. But if you flip agriculture worldwide from an emissions source into a sequestration sink, then you can get all the benefits from fossil fuels AND simultaneously by putting it in the soil, get benefits in increased productivity there as well!
Oh and BTW I only agree with you about coal, if and only if it is directly and inextricably tied to carbon sequestration in the soil by improved organic agricultural models. Without that, it is incredibly harmful. As I said before, it is unethical and immoral to force our grandchildren to deal with the mess we made of the environment. But as long as those two are linked and in balance, sure, fossil fuels are a great tool! I agree with you 100%
I haven't forgotten about you. You said, "Happy to learn about intensive organic farming."
I sent a whole bunch of citations about that to get you started. But I believe due to the number of links, it will be delayed by moderation.
They make progress towards less CO2. Even in the high mountains of Kashmir:↓
"There is a very good reason why hurricanes of an equivalent ferocity kill thousands in a country like Myanmar or Haiti, but only a few dozen at most in the US or Australia. To be poor is to be vulnerable, even in today's climate. The fact that only 'climate sceptics' tend make this point currently is somewhat shameful."
Powerful post Mark, and brave statement there. Thankyou↓
"the biggest unanswered question now in climate change is this: what will India do?" Modi answered that question in Australia last week: India will go for growth, primarily driven by (increasingly Australian) coal, also by nuclear (Australian uranium). Anyone who knows India, as I have since 1972, would know that this is the only sensible and humane approach.
China limiting its emissions? It's planned annual growth in GHG emissions up to 2030 equals Australia's annual emissions; yet in Brisbane, Obama panned Australia after praising China. By 2030, China's urbanisation push will be largely over, the population is expected to decline. Renewable energy will be almost all hydro, other will be about 2% of total emissions in 2030, coal stations are powering ahead. Modi will do what China is doing.↓
Hi Mark, a good article, I'm pleased to see your take on India's situation.
When you say of India's prospective coal-burning that "the resulting emissions will undoubtedly push the entire planet towards a hotter future than would otherwise be the case," there are some doubts as to whether rises would be as great as you suggest, e.g. the "pause" in warming since 1998 and the attendant re-evaluations of sources of warming, and recent studies which suggest that equilibrium climate sensitivity is in the order of 1.3-1.7, significantly less than the IPCC's projections assume.
Even if warming does resume, I have often argued (I won't go into detail here) that the future is always uncertain, our capacity to predict it has always been poor, and the best response to suggested CAGW is to increase our capacity to deal with whatever unknown future eventuates. This means pro-market, pro-growth policies, policies which increase flexibility, self-reliance, innovation and entrepreneurship, rather than the GHG emissions-reduction which have high costs for little, if any, apparent benefit. Most proposed remedies to potential CAGW involve heavy centralised government control and direction, which is anathema to an innovative, self-reliant, productive society.
The prospect of high reliance on non-hydro renewables seems very remote. There were two good articles which explain why on Judith Curry's blog recently – well worth a read if you haven't seen them. They are by "Planning Engineer," who has over 30 years' experience in the electric utility industry and has overseen generation planning and transmission planning. He is a registered Professional Engineer with a Masters in Electrical Engineering and graduate training in Policy Analysis. He has served and continues to serve on a variety of regional and national committees in the power supply arena. (PE adopted a pseudonym to avoid the hassle and delays associated with getting clearance for his articles if he used his real name.)
India will be fine, China has set the precedent.
Indi will say, our emissions are much lower, we intend to peak around say 2040 (though they will probably say 2050 and negotiate hard to be seen to do a deal, and settle on around 2040, lots of lee way)
pure international politics. then pressure on the West to 'do something' LOL
what I don't understand, is why Mark hasn't been called a 'coal shill' or 'climate denier' yet by the usual suspects… any sceptic, writing this article would have been, as they have been pointing this dilemma out for years (Llomborg being one such voice, though like most sceptics he has never denied climate change, nor that man contributes)
c'mon. Mark has favourably cited the GWPF, that's heresy.↓
Hi, Mark, my post of 22 November at 10.51 pm is still in moderation. The only possible reason I can see is that I included two hyperlinks to Climate Etc – there's nothing in my text which could cause offence.
I hope that it eventually sees the light of day!↓
Your historical temperature graph is incorrect. Temperature has leveled out from the last years of the past century to no net increase today. Your graph shows it rising, that is not true.
It's not clear from the graphs you isolated from the body of their associated reports that they include the upper ocean layers.
This is one of several recent reports that postulates that upper ocean warming may have been underestimated. Sorry for linking to a paywall, but the summary and some important graphs are placed in front of it.
Upper ocean warming is not a problem but a blessing, expressed in degrees the increase is futile, due to the high heat capacity of water.
Great piece, but I have to note that climate skeptics are not the only people making the point about the moral need for more energy production (including fossil) in developing countries. e.g.:
The Power Gap Behind India's Mass Blackouts http://nyti.ms/OznCEs via @dotearth
Dispatches from Rio and Nepal: Knife Fights Over Firewood http://nyti.ms/LlTnnv via @dotearth↓
I've no idea where Mark Lynas got the idea that only "skeptics" make the point that to be poor is to be vulnerable. (Deniers are quoting this comment gleefully as if they invented the poor – and some of them probably did!) Sure there are a lot of hypocritical deniers who've suddenly developed a love for the "poor" and, after ignoring their plight for decades, suddenly decided they want to "help" them by selling them oil and coal.
However there have for years been IPCC reports focusing on ""Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability" which have highlighted the particular vulnerability of less developed countries. Other organisations and individuals have constantly highlighted the particular vulnerabilities of poorer countries in regard to climate change, including the complex array of issues surrounding energy, health, education, economics and environment.
Many individuals and organisations have been working to reduce this vulnerability, not least of which are those who've been bringing for the first time, electricity to millions of households – via solar energy. Many less developed countries have a population distribution that makes old-style energy production and distribution horrendously expensive. They can and are taking advantage of more nimble systems available today by advanced renewable technology, so they don't have to put all their eggs the one basket (coal) or go in the pure linear route taken by developed countries: coal to renewable with, in some instances, nuclear as a supplement.
There is one point on which I agree with Mark – that we are all in this together and playing the blame or guilt card won't help. We've got to move forward looking forward and, hopefully, collaboratively – helping each other, not pointing fingers and saying "I won't until everyone else does".↓
Well said!
Decentralisation of power works admirably at the village scale in rural sections of poor nations. Power grids are horrendously expensive, even for developed nations.
However, poor people from the countryside are now moving to cities in droves. This will, no doubt, be the Urban Century. It is the cities where centralised power, notably for industry, performs well. There are, however, millions of roofs even in Mumbai where solar PV could make a difference and help temper emissions and monopolies on power gneration that tend to raise the price of energy.
The problem in India is not that the villages aren't connected to the grid,. Most rural villages in india have grid connection, it's the poor in the villages that are not connected.
"On the other hand, if India decides not to burn much coal in future in order to limit emissions, development could be slowed and hundreds of millions would remain in poverty longer than otherwise."
.. is a false conclusion. One by ignoring the alternative solutions: distributed renewable energy for example, and two, not accounting for the implicit health costs of coal.
Indoor air pollution kills around 4 million people each year (not to mention the colossal associalted morbidity) but outdoor air pollution kills over 3 million, and coal is one of the significant contributors to this.
Clearly the solution is not to replace one polluting activity with another, but to look for cleaner and healthier (and in fact more sustainable eg water use) solutions.
There are quite a few studies in the medical literature that highlight the costs of coal in health terms, and they can completely outweigh the benefits of coal. Until we include these currently externalised costs, we cannot have a neaniful disucssion in this subject.↓
The agreement between America and China does not stand up to scrutiny. Obama is unlikely to be able to deliver, and the Chinese have just bought themselves 16 years without criticism before they renege on the deal. It's unlikely that they even believe in AGW, especially as they have their own scientists not bought and paid for by Big Green. They have already embarked on a programme for renewables, mainly wind, solar, and hydro and that remains the same, and is not altered by any agreement. As they are probably not bothered about AGW, their motive is fear of fossil fuels becoming in short supply due to political interference in the countries from which they import.↓
The Chinese do indeed have their own science community.
And the irony is, because of the lack of influential climate denial nutters they accept the science (as they logically should) and are acting upon it. You should remember per capita Chinese emissions are about 1/4 of those of Australia. So it is rather difficult to point the finger at them and insist they act before we do.
I suggest that this cannot be ignored by even top Chinese government officials as they commute to work …
George, australia is a bad example, china just passed France in their per capita emissions.
Australia ,with huge proven nuclear reserves, has not one nuclear power plant.
Mark, we are working on an approach that does not have to deal with the morality or political impracticality of asking impoverished Indians not to burn more coal. It's economics. We are developing a molten salt reactor power plant that can be mass produced and deliver electricity at 3 cents/kWh. It's clean, safe, and cheap. India's limited financial resources dictate that they must generate as much electricity as possible for the investments they can afford. They will opt for nuclear power. There is more about this in the book THORIUM: energy cheaper than coal, Here's a 3D rendering from the engineering design
and here's a technical introduction
Mark, your essential points here are well taken. That is: India's development needs demand more, not less affordable energy. And for now, that is still coal.
But your suggestion that India take a more "sophisticated" approach to UN climate negotiations is less convincing. If anything, the Indian government's candor is refreshing, and potentially more useful than the kabuki of the UN's chronically futile quest for a global "climate protection" compact.
China's more sophisticated approach, as noted, comes down to little more substantive than Prince Potemkin's villages.
Your post also seems to overly emphasize a per-capita basis of equity or fairness. There is an alternative view that "excessive" fertility and population growth themselves unethically burden ecosystems, and hence should not be rewarded with dispensations. Indeed, it is the difference in the views of whether GDP or population is the proper denominator in assessing shared responsibilities for AGW mitigation that lies at the heart of of UNFCCC perpetual gridlock.
This is not merely an academic distinction. While much of the developing world, like all of the developed world, has more or less made some of the normal "demographic transition" to lower fertility and thus reduced or even negative population growth, in much of Africa fertility remains persistently high. As a result, projections which had seen the world's "peak" human population as leveling off somewhere around 10 billion recently have been revised upward toward 12 billion.
You noted correctly that poverty is the most insidious form of pollution — in its destructive effects — and that greater wealth can make countries both cleaner in their environmental impact and more resilient in coping with all kinds of hazards. But a key part of the mitigating effect of national wealth has long been understood to be the demographic transition to low fertility and eventually zero or negative population growth. If that is not part of the equation, then the equity implications of demography loom larger.
Regarding the AGW issue, what should be clear from your observations and is that the only effective solution will come not from the regulatory approach the UN has emphasized but the technical fix: developing breakthrough technologies that can provide clean energy alternatives that are cheaper than coal. More advanced nuclear power systems may be close to meeting some of that need, but conventional nuclear power still entails collateral hazards that need fixing. Electricity still is only part of the equation; alternatives to liquid and gaseous fossil fuels also are need.
A number of centers and analysts — the Breakthrough Institute, the Copenhagen Consensus Centre, and others — have called for shifting the emphasis away from the regulatory obsessions of the UN and too many climate activists to what is needed instead: an aggressive effort to accelerate energy innovation.
Moreover, simply throwing more money at conventional R&D programs will not suffice. For one thing, a sluggish global economy and government budget constraints are likely to limit what further discretionary funds can be provided. For another, the centralized approach focused on government labs and universities lacks the agility and breadth needed to achieve important innovations at the pace required.
A "Plan B," stressing open science, open innovation, and broad trans-national collaboration is described in detail here: http://j.mp/NrgInnov.↓


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No Limit RC UK's first show of 2010 took place on 27th/28th March at Pembrey Race Circuit - (Home of Welsh Motorsport), which was hosting that weekend a round of the [full size] British Truck Racing Series. The advertised race day was Sunday; Saturday was qualifying only and this was reflected by the number of people who attended. Therefore this day was used to tune and test our RC cars - Trophy Truggies, Savages and Baja 5Bs.
Sunday turned out to be a bright and dry day which drew in the crowds. Pembrey Circuit had provided us with 2 of their circuit cars which the No Limit crew incorporated into the ramp-jumping which, as well as giving some serious air-time, made for a fun and exciting display and demonstrated what HPI RC cars are capable of. Thanks to Phil Davies (Pembrey Circuit Manager) and Dan for making the weekend so enjoyable for No Limit RC UK!

subset: commoncrawl


text: Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - FIFA Stands for.... Speak Korean Now! Korean Job Discussion Forums"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!" FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in FIFA Stands for.... Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Off-Topic Forum View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message sidJoined: 02 Feb 2003Location: Berkshire, England Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject: Yaya wrote: I reiterate a person who defends cricket should've joined the gay parade in Seoul Sunday. It's not cricketers who spend 90% of the game mincing around on the sidelines in tight shiny clothing. Back to top YayaJoined: 25 Feb 2003Location: Seoul Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:04 am Post subject: sparkx wrote: Yaya wrote: So where is your proof, loser? You poo-poo other people's sources yet cite none of your own except your burger-flipper derived intellect. Quote: Please refasten the muzzle on your mouth, loony, but before that, make mine a double Whopper. What's with your obsession for the fast food industry? Seriously man, its nothing short of creepy. Did some 17 year old burger boy biatch slap you with his spatula when you asked for extra tartar sauce on your Fillet O' Fish or something? Well, that's what I think of many of the whiners on this board in that they couldn't even dream of becoming french fry guy one day. And well, Dogbert is a long-term sufferer of some mental disease who stalks me frequently. Please urge him to seek the help he needs. Back to top peemilJoined: 09 Feb 2003Location: Koowoompa Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: Federal Bureau of Investigation? Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Off-Topic Forum All times are GMT - 8 HoursGoto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Page 5 of 5 Jump to: Select a forum Forums:----------------FAQJob-related Discussion ForumGeneral Discussion ForumOff-Topic ForumTravel ForumCurrent Events ForumTechnology ForumBuy/Sell/Trade Forum You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot vote in polls in this forum This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling. Contact Dave's ESL Cafe Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe


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Same-Sex Couples: Celebrate, Then Call Your CPA
After celebrating the Supreme Court's decision, same-sex couples may want to phone their accountants. Jonnelle Marte joins MoneyBeat.
This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.
... same sex couples forty few victory yesterday when the Supreme Court struck down the Defense of Marriage Act ... Dome was a lot of people calling me five to four vote ... that's not all they are celebrating couples may now be open in prior years tax returns ... for CP to refunds from Uncle Sam ... now that their marriages are recognized by the federal government to know Mark A has the story on MarketWatch and joins us today to talk about it ... on yet you know look you wanna play for and simply parents and anyone player ... yes it's really important ... so you know I have talked about it a different issues that same sex same thing up was having a scene with an additional time to file ... multiple tax returns because they are retired mentors I recognize the Federal government ... yesterday to pay more in taxes ... silly to want to do is ... go through into the numbers may be preparing sample return of what it would have cost you if you have ideas into an intimate couple ... and you should be able to go back and then to get those returns to the ICU where many ... U attention to reading your story that the sense that this is not such a cut and dried thing where ok the Supreme Court has the decision ... this is the law now ... this is it's it's usually going to be gets tax on the state level on the federal way it seems likely same sex couple are still going to happen we do a lot of that flight illegally lot of verbiage ... so what's happening now that the federal government will recompense them a surprise hit in May to once a move to another that does not recommend the new could be in a situation where ... the federal government will acknowledge there may be just awesome eighty five individual is at the state level ... so it's not the end of the essence of the yes so let's run through a couple of them here on the first one he is ... the gift and this is the cute wanna write about gift tax and estate planning yes so they did friends a K a Bright estate taxes were at the core of that ... so what happen now if your marriage is recognized in the federal government than ... they should be able to pass sometimes assets tax free two units of you know for months custody of their ... wares before if one person passed away ... Ian had Air me ... be stuck with a big tax bill so you basically when you take the lead for years the planning ... Steve him I if you set up a trust some people did that to mean am I sometimes they send ... you Melanie give your spouse now merry go accessory that you know which will give them unlimited access to that many tax free ... on the deal was stressing the word to cemetery visit value him and to the fact ... that you're honest you ... income taxes until then it's right so of course a lot of people one thing and maybe and of being more in taxes but this is what if one spouse makes more than the other ... chances are you will face a smaller tax if you file jointly ... so do the math type an amended return if you can and see if you didn't you might ask how far back can you don't ... send the money you can go back up to three years ah Lord two years from the DUP that I was ... so perfect ... and then health benefits health benefits of ... a lot of companies did not offer benefits to same sex houses ... but the ones that can house offered as a taxable benefit ... so imagine that would add up and about a thousand dollars the year for some of these couples now that tax and not an issue ... you in a sentence and every visit me once hostile somewhat generous time in the end there ... ah maybe you can also go back and condiments be turning in some of the money I think Baucus's wild so ... hard to keep in mind you know Mark A think you're a good stock ...


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As expected, DREAM officials have scrapped a planned contest between Todd Duffee and Nick Gaston.
With ex-UFC heavyweight Todd Duffee (6-2 MMA, 0-1 DREAM) injured and Gaston (5-1 MMA, 0-0 DREAM) the victim of a recent knockout loss, both fighters were left unavailable for this weekend's "DREAM: Japan GP Final" event.
Rather than scramble to add an additional bout on extremely late notice, DREAM event producer Keiichi Sasahara on Wednesday announced the event will proceed with eight official contests.
"DREAM: Japan GP Final" takes place this Saturday, July 16, at Ariake Coliseum in Tokyo. No North American broadcast plans have been announced for the event (officially dubbed "Fight for Japan: DREAM Japan GP Final – 2011 Bantamweight Japan Tournament Final").
Duffee had hoped to rebound from back-to-back losses that cooled his
quick rise to the top of the prospect list. After being released from
the UFC in fall 2010, he took a short-notice fight against Alistair
Overeem for the DREAM interim heavyweight belt at the promotion's
"Dynamite 2010" event in December and was knocked out cold in 19
Meanwhile, six-time King of the Cage veteran Gaston opened his career with five-straight victories. However, "Afrozilla" was defeated by Tyler East in Oklahoma on June 24.
With the late scratch, the full card for "DREAM: Japan GP Final" now includes:
- Champ Gegard Mousasi vs. Hiroshi Izumi (for light-heavyweight title)
- Champ Hiroyuki Takaya vs. Kazuyuki Miyata (for featherweight title)
- Champ Marius Zaromskis vs. Hayato Sakurai (welterweight non-title fight)
- Masakazu Imanari vs. Hideo Tokoro (Japan bantamweight-tourney finale)
- Keisuke Fujiwara vs. Kenji Osawa (Japan bantamweight-tourney third-place fight)
- Tatsuya Mizuno vs. Trevor Prangley
- Drew Fickett vs. Tatsuya Kawajiri
- Bruno Carvalho vs. Eiji Mitsuoka
For the latest on "DREAM: Japan GP Final," stay tuned to the MMA Rumors section of MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).
(Pictured: Todd Duffee)


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Galactic Fossil Revealed in Infrared Light
This animation demonstrates the power of infrared light to see what visible light cannot -- a newfound bundle of stars called a globular cluster. The movie shifts from a visible-light image to a near-infrared image to a new mid-infrared image from NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope. The visible-light image is from the California Institute of Technology's Digitized Sky Survey and the near-infrared image is from the NASA-funded Two Micron All-Sky Survey (2MASS).
Globular clusters date back to the birth of our galaxy, 13 or so billion years ago. There are about 150 clusters sprinkled around the core of the galaxy like seeds in a pumpkin. Astronomers use these galactic "fossils" as tools for studying the age and formation of the Milky Way.
Most clusters orbit around the center of the galaxy well above its dust-enshrouded disc, or plane, while making brief, repeated passes through the plane that each last about a million years. Spitzer, with infrared eyes that can see into the dusty galactic plane, first spotted the newfound cluster during its current pass. Astronomers then searched for past references to the cluster and found only one undocumented image from the Two Micron All-Sky Survey.
Follow-up observations with the University of Wyoming Infrared Observatory helped set the distance of the new cluster at about 9,000 light-years from Earth -- closer than most clusters -- and set the mass at the equivalent of 300,000 Suns. The cluster's apparent size, as viewed from Earth, is comparable to a grain of rice held at arm's length. It is located in the constellation Aquila.
Astronomers believe that this cluster may be one of the last in our galaxy to be uncovered.
The Two Micron All-Sky Survey false-color image was obtained using near-infrared wavelengths ranging from 1.3 to 2.2 microns. The Spitzer false-color image composite was taken on April 21, 2004, by its infrared array camera. It is composed of images obtained at four mid-infrared wavelengths: 3.6 microns (blue), 4.5 microns (green), 5.8 microns (orange) and 8 microns (red). The true-color image from the Digitized Sky Survey was acquired with red and blue filters.
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text:
There were three of them floating around New York this weekend, surrounding him, swelling his head, the Big Man.
Page Six reports that at the SNL afterparty, Pips was supported by "friends' Olivia Wilde AND Mila Kunis. Both have been linked to him, and both happened to leave around the same time he did. Attached photo from the party – you can see Olivia smiling behind Justin and you're looking at the back of Mila's head.
Mila was back in Boston yesterday on the set of Ted. Olivia meanwhile hit up the screening and afterparty for The Hangover Part 2 in NYC. And then there's Jessica Biel, also in town, hoping he might notice her, at a Revlon event yesterday wearing a green velvet Gucci pantsuit which looks great on her, is very chic, I wish I could, but … why not in October? Reminds me actually of Gwyneth Paltrow in Tom Ford for Gucci many, many years ago, remember? Click here to see. It's obviously a different cut, from a different time, but at the time, it was the 90s, this was a statement, and she, of course, was the girl to make it. I wonder what Tom thinks of this current green throwback.
So what and who is Justin doing?
Here's how I see it:
He wants Mila. But she's making him wait. So he's waiting with Olivia who needs some fun off her divorce anyway. And Biel? Well, Biel's getting shut out. That sh-t is DONE.
Photos from Wenn.com and Bauergriffinonline.com and Demis Maryannakis/Splashnewsonline.com and NPG.com
JT, Gaga, & all his girls Pt 2
There were three of them floating around New York this weekend, surrounding him, swelling his head, the Big Man.


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A confessed Alaska serial killer who targeted people across the country told authorities he planned to strike again in the state if he had gotten away with the murder of an 18-year-old Anchorage barista, the FBI said Thursday.
"He wasn't going to stop," FBI spokesman Eric Gonzalez said.
Israel Keyes, 34, prepared a body disposal cache in the summer of 2011 for a future target, Gonzalez said. Murder kits also have been recovered in New York and Vermont.
In Alaska, authorities recovered the cache containing a shovel and two large bottles of Drano from Eagle River north of Anchorage. Gonzalez said the drain de-clogger would speed up decomposition of a body.
Keyes told authorities he killed barista Samantha Koenig and at least seven others over the past decade, including Bill and Lorraine Currier of Essex, Vt., in June 2011. The couple's bodies have not been found.
Keyes was found dead Sunday in his Anchorage jail cell after he killed himself by slitting a wrist and strangling himself with a rolled up sheet.
Before his death, Keyes said he sexually assaulted Koenig after abducting her in February from the coffee stand where she worked. He told authorities he then strangled Koenig and left her body in a shed outside his Anchorage house for two weeks while he went on a cruise.
When he returned, Keyes tied up Koenig and posed her body to make it look like she was still alive. He then took a Polaroid of her with a newspaper dated Feb. 13, which was 12 days after her abduction, according to the FBI.
Keyes made a photocopy of the picture and typed a ransom note on the back demanding $30,000 from Koenig's family. He then sent a text message to Koenig's boyfriend on her cellphone with directions to where he'd left the note at a local dog park.
Keyes dismembered Koenig's body and put it in a frozen lake north of Anchorage after drilling a hole in the ice with a chain saw, according to authorities.
He was arrested in Lufkin, Texas, in March after using Koenig's stolen debit card at ATMs there and in Alaska, Arizona and New Mexico. He was facing a March 2013 trial in Koenig's death.
Koenig's remains were found in April after Keyes told authorities where to look.
Keyes didn't identify any other victims or say where the remains were, other than to say four were killed in Washington state and one was killed on the East Coast, with the body disposed of in New York.
Shortly before his arrest, Keyes attended a sister's wedding in Texas, where he ranted in mid-ceremony about how he didn't believe in God, Keyes' mother's pastor told the Anchorage Daily News in an interview.
Jacob Gardner said Thursday that he was driving north with Keyes' mother and other relatives from their home in Wells, Texas, to Deer Park in northeast Washington state, where Keyes' funeral is planned for Sunday. Gardner said it was a convenient spot for family and friends. The pastor said he was preparing a sermon.
Gardner said some of the preaching at the Texas wedding was directed at Keyes.
"We were greatly desirous to see him saved, and greatly desirous to see him denounce his atheism, which he was steadfastly holding to and defending," Gardner told the newspaper. The wedding "ended essentially with Israel, you know, raging against the Gospel, against God and just breaking down into tears, weeping.
"But he did not repent, and that was the last, what I would call, the last stand of God's grace."
The FBI released new details about the discovery of weapons and other items connected to Keyes at an upstate New York reservoir.
FBI spokesman Paul Holstein said an April 18 search in the Adirondacks town of Parishville turned up a bucket containing a silencer, .22-caliber Ruger frame, ammunition and a flashlight, all linked to Keyes. Divers on April 24 found the bolt and barrel of a gun used during the killings of the Curriers. Divers found a gun owned by the Curriers on June 5.
Keyes owned property in the Adirondacks.
Gonzalez confirmed that Keyes buried a murder kit in the woods on the banks of the Winooski River in spring 2009 in Vermont, then dug up the cache two years later and used the weapons in the Vermont killings.
Keyes traveled extensively in the U.S., landing at one location and targeting victims randomly hundreds of miles away. Keyes told authorities he robbed several banks and used money he made as a general contractor to pay for his travels.
Koenig was an exception to the distance rule. Keyes had never seen the barista before but chose the coffee stand because of its location and because it stayed open later than other stands.
Anchorage police said Keyes also targeted others in Alaska before killing Koenig but always backed off before acting.
In May 2011, he focused on a couple at Point Woronzof, a popular park area along the Anchorage shorefront.
Lt. Anthony Henry, commander of the homicide unit, said Keyes backed off at the last minute after police inadvertently arrived during a routine patrol.


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Glen Perkins caps All-Star Game with perfect ending
MINNEAPOLIS --- The Minnesota Twins have not had much to celebrate in recent seasons.
Once the model low-revenue franchise when it won six American League Central titles in a nine-year span from 2002-10, the Twins lost at least 96 games in each of the last three seasons. They are 44-50 this year and 10 ½ games off the Detroit Tigers' pace in the division race.
However, it was like that golden era returned Tuesday night at Target Field when the American League beat the National League 5-3 in the All-Star Game.
The crowd of 41,048 was on its feet and cheering loudly when Twins closer and local product Glen Perkins took the mound in the top of the ninth inning to protect the AL's two-run lead. He retired the side in order on nine pitches to get the save.
"I wasn't fighting back tears but it was an overwhelming feeling to hear the crowd," Perkins said. "Kind of the buildup as I walked out of the pen and then it got louder and louder, and then I was jogging in."
The crowd only got louder as Perkins got closer to recording the final out and began chanting his name.
He started the inning by getting Arizona Diamondbacks catcher Miguel Montero to fly out then struck out Pittsburgh Pirates utility player Josh Harrison. Perkins then finished it off by inducing Colorado Rockies outfielder Charlie Blackmon to ground out to second base.
"Those are the things that don't happen during the regular season," Perkins said. "It was a moment where you realize why you play the game and what makes the game so fun --- it's the fans in the stands."
Perkins used to be one of those fans in the stands when the Twins played their games at the Metrodome, which has since been imploded to make room for construction of a new stadium for the NFL's Minnesota Vikings.
Perkins was born in St. Paul, grew up in Stillwater and lives in Lakeville. He also starred at the University of Minnesota and has spent his entire professional career in the Twins' organization since they choose him in the first round of the 2004 amateur draft. He made his major league debut two years later.
"Coming in here and hearing the reception, hearing how loud the fans were, it makes me want to get to the playoffs because it felt like a playoff atmosphere out there," Perkins said.


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Wednesday, March 28, 2012
Chastity - a Foundation of Life
Probably the most basic change, which has taken place in European and European based societies since the Second World War is the idea that sexual intercourse should be based on mutual attraction rather than on long-term commitment.
Until at least the 1940's, it was taken for granted in most of Europe and America that sex is something generally limited to marriage. If the married partners are attracted to each other, that's fine, and if they aren't so much, then they will live with that. However marriage was for life and normal, respectable people did not have sex outside marriage.
Today, this has completely changed. About 40% of babies are born to single women in the United States. (For women under 30, the majority of babies are born to single women. This compares to a 5% illegitimacy rate in the 1950s.) Additionally it is roughly estimated that several percent of presumed fathers are not really the father. Based upon this, I think we can estimate that about half of sex takes place outside of marriage in Western societies today.
In earlier times, men and women were largely segregated and women were required to dress modestly in public. After a brief courtship or an arranged match, couples married at a young age and remained married until one partner died. Eroticism and sexual excitement played a small role in people's lives. This is still true in traditional cultures today.
In recent times, especially since about 1970, adults see sexual gratification as an essential part of life, if not as a right and an entitlement. During a lifetime, people progress through many relationships, some longer, some shorter, all with the purpose of gratifying both partners to the greatest extent possible.
The problems caused by this are very serious.
- Depression. In a sex-based relationship, many times one partner is happy in the relationship while the other is dissatisfied for some reason and leaves. This can trigger depression. We can speculate that this may be one of the major reasons for an increase in the rate of depression since the Second World War in Western societies.There is extensive research indicating that people who have fewer sexual partners and who marry young are on the average happier. Whores and whoremongers are generally miserable.
- Disease. Frequent changes in sexual partners cause sexually transmitted diseases to flourish, resulting in physical suffering, infertility and sometimes death.
- Sexual abuse. When women bring new men into the home, as boyfriends or husbands, their daughters from previous relationships are at a high risk of being raped by them.
- Child Neglect. In "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: The 25 Year Landmark Study", Judith S. Wallerstein explains in great detail the emotional problems and mental anguish suffered by children who grow up in divorced homes. Many children in single-family homes live that way because one parent felt he or she would have greater sexual satisfaction in a different relationship.
- Abortion. Millions of babies conceived out of wedlock are simply killed before they are born.
Having sex with whomever you want to is probably similar to eating whatever you want to – it may sound good at first, it may not seem to make much difference for a few years, however the long term effects are deadly.
There can be little argument that the Orthodox Jewish practice of chastity is ultimately far better for everyone involved.
25 comments:
"There can be little argument that the Orthodox Jewish practice of chastity is ultimately far better for everyone involved"
Can you expand on what practice you are refering to and how this practice is specifically an orthodox Jewish one?
- Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:58:00 PM
- jewish philosopher said...
There's a link to click.
- Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:05:00 PM
re "There's a link to click"
I clicked on the word "chastity". It directed me to a page with the heading "Kosher Sex. That word "chastity" does not appear on that page at all. Are the practices on that page what you are referring to as chastity. If yes, it's an odd use of that term.
- Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:34:00 PM
sadly, none of the problems you list are prevented by keeping these halachos.
- Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:09:00 PM
- jewish philosopher said...
Chastity refers to the sexual behavior of a man or woman acceptable to the moral standards and guidelines of a culture, civilization, or religion. In Jewish, Christian and Islamic religious beliefs, acts of sexual nature are restricted to the context of marriage. For unmarried persons therefore, chastity is identified with sexual abstinence. Sexual acts outside or apart from marriage, such as adultery, fornication and prostitution, are considered sinful.
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 4:56:00 AM
"Having sex with whomever you want..."
straw man
Cults are notorious for controling the sexual activity of its memebers. par for the course.
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 7:48:00 AM
- jewish philosopher said...
So you'd be completely fine with your daughter sleeping around with a million different guys? After all, anything else means you're in a cult.
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:20:00 AM
once again, a straw man.
man, you dont understand logical falicies. i mean its obvious to me - but cmon
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:46:00 AM
- jewish philosopher said...
I'm bringing conclusive data proving that chastity is good and promiscuity is bad, and you're mumbling "straw man, straw man". You've got straw in your head.
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:50:00 AM
it would be nice if you would not mischaracterize what someone else's position is to help your argument. that is a strawman.
there are not 2 choices here - chastity and promiscuity.. that is your flaw
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 12:28:00 PM
- jewish philosopher said...
That's the way it is. Like war and peace, honesty and lying. You can't be a little bit chaste just like you can't be a little bit pregnant.
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 12:55:00 PM
That type of all or nothing thinking seems to be what this blog is all about.
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:53:00 PM
- jewish philosopher said...
No. I don't automatically condemn things for no reason. Sometimes sex is good, sometimes it's bad.
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:13:00 PM
S you can either have sex with only one person your entire life, or thousands of people??!!! Thats it???
Man, you are a dolt
- Thursday, March 29, 2012 8:30:00 PM
" Sometimes sex is good, sometimes it's bad."
That's what I'm talking about. To you, something has to be either good or bad, right or wrong, nothing is in the middle.
Sometimes a thing is neither good nor bad, but just IS.
Like old people dying, having brown hair or the sky being blue.
Or consenting people having sex.
- Friday, March 30, 2012 2:20:00 AM
- jewish philosopher said...
"S you can either have sex with only one person your entire life, or thousands of people"
You can either use sex in a responsible way, which takes into consideration all the consequences for everyone involved including unborn children, or not.
"something has to be either good or bad"
Wrong. Somethings are better or worse. Raping your mother for example is worse than visiting a prostitute, however that still isn't as good as having sex with your wife. And even with ones wife there's a difference between pressuring her to have sex when she's not in the mood and being a caring husband who wants to satisfy her needs. Plenty of shades of grey.
"Like old people dying, having brown hair or the sky being blue."
Those aren't choices anyone is making. Sex is.
- Friday, March 30, 2012 4:48:00 AM
Couple of things:
JP is probably more on the mark than not. It is probably healthier mentally for people to form solid relationships and marry someone with the idea that monogamy may be hard, but it is better.
There is evidence that kids are not sleeping around as much now as say ten years ago. There is also clear evidence that as people mature, they tend to see the wisdom in marriage and monogamy. Young people are another story, and there is a big danger period for younger folks – there is depression, suicide attempts, eating disorders, wanton behavior, feelings of inadequacy.
Not everyone succumbs for sure. Mostly my friends were champions during their young years – succeeding in college and grad school, developing careers, treating themselves and women well. Marrying and commiting to family and children. But this is NOT everyone's experience.
I think where JP may go overboard a bit is thinking that society cannot mend itself – it does. Mainly people I know do not smoke, do not drink much, and eat healthy. This is a lot of educated folks now – we learn and try to improve. The nineteen sixties are over for many.
Finally – JP believes one has to go "all the way," and live a chaste life etc. I just think that dating is a part of learning about yourself. Maybe not sleeping around – but even intimacy and affection with the opposite sex is a way of learning about yourself.
While I think frum marriages are very admirable in many ways, I also know that the divorce rate is climbing in the frum world. I also know for a fact that frum men engage in extramarital touching at a high enough rate that, here in NYC, it is as real as the fact of homelessness in our streets. I did my own research on this one – it happens.
This is just to say that men will find ways, even in the frum world, to touch other woman. They are denied any affection/sexual experiences prior to marriage – and during marriage it is obviously not permitted. But there is something going on in the frum world regarding sex that is, while not officially permissible, a kind of open secret perhaps?
But I think JP is right in his alarm at our crazy world. Here in NYC, some great women marry late or never. Mostly they seem afraid of not getting the chance to have children. Men are often turned off to the whole thing. Of course many marry, but many don't.
The baal t'chuvah of today is often someone seeking sexual/marital sanity, and not finding it in the secular world. They may not want all of the frum life – but they seem in large part drawn by the hope of a family life and community. We can pretend all we want: community matters, people long for stability. And for the average guy/gal in NYC, it can feel hard to find.
- Friday, March 30, 2012 2:25:00 PM
- Ironmistress said...
The middle way between abstinence and promiscuity is moderation.
I have my youth. And I do not regret anything. I have been happily married to the same man for almost twenty years now and I have never cheated him.
It is okay to have fun and practice adult life in your youth before going steady. But once you've gone steady, then it is being true to your lawfully wedded spouse. And I really doubt my hubby would have liked to marry a virgin - an absolute beginner in sex and someone he'd have had to teach the bed things from the beginning.
That is how we understand it in Scandinavia.
And yes, I have many male friends whom I am just a friend and nothing else.
- Friday, March 30, 2012 4:09:00 PM
- Ironmistress said...
There are awfully wide grey areas between war and peace and between truth and lying.
Half-truths are the most subtle means of deceit there are. What makes it so insidious is that it is not telling the untruth: it is just omitting essential parts of the truth.
- Friday, March 30, 2012 4:14:00 PM
- jewish philosopher said...
"The nineteen sixties are over for many."
Casual sex seems to alive and well.
STDs are spreading at a good speed
while illegitimacy keeps rising
"but even intimacy and affection with the opposite sex is a way of learning about yourself."
But happens to the resulting kids?
- Friday, March 30, 2012 4:23:00 PM
- jewish philosopher said...
"The middle way between abstinence and promiscuity is moderation."
That's what Judaism teaches: not celibacy, not debauchery, moderation.
- Friday, March 30, 2012 4:23:00 PM
Of interest on the subject
- Saturday, March 31, 2012 11:49:00 PM
"And yes, I have many male friends whom I am just a friend and nothing else."
That seems predictable, seeing as how the women in this video unanimously attested to having male friends, and men were universally more doubtful about the ability for men and women to truly be "friends."
It's great that I joined a faith community, where people are less delusional about this issue. Apart from the emotional harm done to women who engage in frequent sexual hookups, men also suffer if they buy into this platonic friend nonsense, and really need to get a clue. If a man is interested in a woman, but she's not ready to take him seriously as a potential spouse, he should move on. If a college age, or older, man is not interested in a long-term relationship (marriage), he should not draw a woman into physically intimate relationship (or better yet, he should grow up and recognize the value of marriage like a mature human being). Respectful acquaintances are maybe a possibility, when kept within modest guidelines, but a woman who wants emotional intimacy with a man should be willing to take the whole man seriously. If he really wants more, but she is not prepared to offer it, there's a good chance she's just using him and he should GTFO.
- Sunday, April 01, 2012 2:19:00 PM
So J.S., do you insist that your daughters wear chastity belts when they patronize mixed gender supermarkets?
You'll never know when a glimpse of a large cucumber might stir amorous suggestions in their sheltered minds.
- Monday, April 02, 2012 2:28:00 PM
- jewish philosopher said...
You probably shouldn't be allowed near any other people or vegetables.
- Monday, April 02, 2012 2:30:00 PM


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TODAY Jake turned 36!
We love him so much and tried to celebrate him the best we could.
Ella, my HUGE helper in the kitchen, helped me make his cake on Friday afternoon. And why not help? Helpers get to lick the bowl! Chocolate cake with peanut butter frosting and topped with Reese's. It's so good. We make it almost every year for Jake's birthday.
Lily & Ella helped me set up the "party" Friday night. Then Saturday morning we had a family breakfast complete with waffles, nutella, strawberries & whipped cream.
Now, we also had a new concrete driveway poured today. Not what I would pick to do on my birthday, but it was what Jake picked. We've been wanting to do this for a while. So Jake & the girls spent most of the day outside. I kept the littles inside and out of the wet concrete!
We enjoyed dinner all together with some dear friends of ours. Jake picked the dinner menu and then we finally got to dive into THE cake!
candle says "29! again"
We love you Jake - Daddy! Happy 36th Birthday!


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About the Activity:
Unravel the Edakkal caves in Wayanad, that are considered amongst the finest sources, showcasing the prehistoric etchings on rocks. It has roused the interest of several historians and archaeologists around the globe.
Meet at Kalpetta anytime between 10am to 3pm for the experience of 3 hours. Head to the caves that is located at nearly 1200m above the sea level and atop a mountain range known as Ambukutty Mala. You will be required to climb uphill. Behold the view as you reach the Edakkal caves. It is believed to have occurred naturally and is considered as the earliest instance of human settlement. The exact year of the formation of these caves can't be figured out, but according to the inhabitants the caves are nearly 5000 years old.
Witness the carvings on the rock walls that depict the figures of the animal and humans and also the various instruments which were used by the humans during the ancient times. After some riveting moments, head back.