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There are isolated problems with current patches, but they are well-known and documented on this site.
Microsoft yanks the Win10 1809 upgradePosted on woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge
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In the past few hours — very early Saturday morning US time — Microsoft pulled the Win10 version 1809 upgrade package. Details are sparse (yawn, as
[See the full post at: Microsoft yanks the Win10 1809 upgrade]
dph853AskWoody Plus
I vaguely remember the good ol' days when updates were an occasion marked by anticipation and sometimes joy kinda like Christmas. These days are now akin to the tax filing deadline or the Challenger disaster. Crash & Burn Windows.
Too bad the only way to get 18 months of solace from bad patches and Microsoft info gathering is to unplug from the internet. I'm pretty sure I have a Windows XP install CD around here somewhere…
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GoneToPlaidAskWoody Plus
I too remember those "good ol' days." Those days went down the drain, starting in 2014-04-16 with the release of KB2952664, and then with six subsequent botched updates during the rest of 2014 — the same year that Nadella succeeded Steve Balmer as Microsoft's new CEO. Many of you may recall that one of the first things which Nadella did, after becoming CEO, was to fire Microsoft's Windows Update Quality Control Team. This was the equivalent of firing everyone in the back rooms who directly supported Mission Control at NASA.
Starting on 2014-04-16, there are well over five dozen Windows Updates which all Win7 users should have avoided installing, or which they should avoid installing whenever reinstalling Win7.
Windows Updates has become something like slipping down the side of a mountainside which is littered with rocks and boulders, and with deep ravines. The rocks are botched Windows Updates from which you can recover by uninstalling those botched updates. The boulders are Windows Updates which install deep telemetry. Yet one can recover from the boulders by uninstalling those updates. The deep ravines are some borked Windows Updates which you can not uninstall, and which System Restore will fail in terms of removing the damage caused by those deep ravine updates. The only solutions, in the case of the deep ravine updates, is to either restore from backup or to reinstall Win7. There are no other options in terms of the deep ravine updates.
Nadella is brilliant, yet it is also clear that he suffers from delusional disorder in the sense that Nadella believes that the only thing which is relevant to Microsoft is the Cloud. It is delusional to put all of one's eggs in one basket. Any logical person just does not do this! In other words, Nadella has thrown the Windows historical cash cow under the bus, instead of understanding Sinofsky's delusional failure with Win8 in terms of trying to make Win8 some sort of "adventure" in terms of the "charms" of learning how to use Win8, versus the tried-and-true goals that any new versions of any OS should not require any major learning curve since an OS is just that — something which should always be stable, functional, and in the background.
Nadella factually has issues with certain classes of people. In fact, Nadella famously said that women should never ask for a raise. So where do you all think that us, the "commoners" who use Windows, stand with Nadella? Are we "commoners" even on his radar? I doubt it.
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bAskWoody Plus
Nadella factually has issues with certain classes of people. In fact, Nadella famously said that women should never ask for a raise.
He didn't actually say they shouldn't:
"It's not really about asking for the raise but knowing and having faith that the system will actually give you the right raises as you go along,"
(More that they shouldn't need to.)
After gaffe, Microsoft CEO says he was 'wrong' on women's pay
And he corrected the impression within a few hours:
"I answered that question completely wrong. Without a doubt I wholeheartedly support programs at Microsoft and in the industry that bring more women into technology and close the pay gap. I believe men and women should get equal pay for equal work. And when it comes to career advice on getting a raise when you think it's deserved, Maria's advice was the right advice. If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask."
Satya Nadella email to employees
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Hi Woody,
Win 10 home user here. Gullible, idiotic, and a seeker….
I upgraded to 1809 earlier this week. All seems to have went well. No files missing. Computer functioning fine (thus far).
My question is what is going to happen on Patch Tuesday?
Am I, and others who upgraded going to be offered a Cumulative update for 1809? Or Heaven forbid is Microsoft going to "re-upgrade" to a new version of 1809?
Man, I really I feel bad for the people who lost their files. I am very glad I backup all my files (Two external hard drives).
Woody, if you ever decide to write a book on Windows 10 Windows Updates for Dummies, you could have a long chapter on "seekers."
We have no way to know for sure what MS will do on Patch Tuesday.
Hopefully they will release a Cumulative Update to fix all the problems they have caused. And it will be that version that is re-released through Windows Update for those who have not so far upgraded.
If I were you, I would immediately backup all documents and downgrade right away. Big chance it might go wrong at patch Tuesday now. Some big bug is hiding in 1809 for sure. This disaster was about to happen one day, especially since Microsoft goes for quantity instead of quality nowadays. Time to leave the Titanic… :-/
That will not hring back lost files
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Years ago, I remember seeing an ad in a print publication for backup tools that included the slogan "no amount of cursing will get your data back".
Went to 1809 without a hitch. Windows 10 Pro. Used Windows Update. No files missing.
I too feel bad for the people with problems. Frankly, there is no excuse for people to lose files.
GCG1000AskWoody Plus
Ditto, installed 1809 w/o any problems. All files are intact. Win seems to be working correctly. Sorry for the users who suffered information losses.
Susan BradleyDa Boss
"Anybody who tells you to install patches immediately should be drawn and quartered."
Ssshhh Woody, we need the arrow-fodder. 😉
Edit to remove HTML
Still: whatever happens it should never affect user docs. This time a very important line was crossed. Windows became the most unreliable operating system in computer history. Mainly because of unlimited pushing against peoples will, combined with no quality control.
Totally agree, but M$ is the near monopoly on this, and therefore does as it pleases, and has done for sometime, unless the the powers that be step-in and issue outrageous-sized fines, we will continue to receive this shoddy excuse for an OS.
HA! Point well taken….
How they keep getting away with this???
_Reassigned AccountAskWoody Lounger
Its to be expected that major upgrades affect a small percentage of devices. That has always been the case over the past versions of Windows. The big problem now is that the frequency of upgrades increasing to twice a year has made this a more frequent event. Because this is hardly a unique event to any OS getting a major revision. You have to wonder why users never learn their lesson and perform backups? They seem eager to get the latest and greatest Windows which in my mind is debatable as a" got to have it now". But nevertheless if your going to be a final release beta tester for the rest of us. At least do what your supposed to do and back up your stuff. Who in their right mind trusts any OS upgrade to perform perfectly on every device, every time?
It's for sure not a small amount, that why it got pulled also
I'm pretty sure I have a Windows XP install CD around here somewhere…
I am running Windows Xp as well. Too much problems with Windows 10.
I think a lot of the problem with windows is the hardware being used. It's not uniform. Everybody who manufactures hardware has a different version of this card or that mother board or something new just out. Just like the rims on a car, you can't upgrade a chevy rim to a ford. It doesn't work. Trying to put out an update that one size fits all is just not gonna work.
@anon #222227, That's a fair point but, it's always been the case about different hardware with Windows even it's previous versions prior to W10. What's changed is the lack of a QA dept, where everyone who uses Windows is at the mercy of MS and their buggy patches/ upgrades.No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
That would be a fair point. If not that also (and notoiriously known) Windows 10 creates huge problems on Microsoft's own hardware. The terrible troubles with the surface tablets are just an example. So there really is something more going on. They are just way too eager to push upgrades and updates, to control users and to push them in a closed environment. For a desktop system – already on the decline – that's a death certificate. If the creators of Windows after this disaster still don't understand why Windows 10 didn't reach by far the predicted installations (and why Windows 7 is still gong strong) they have a block of concrete in front of their heads. Precisely this situation is what experts are warning for since the introduction of Windows 10. Keeping yourself as a software maker on a tight release schedule every 6 months despite EVERYTHING and any logical sense sooner or later would lead to some form of disaster. That just happened. If they stubbornly keep on going like this, more disasters will unavoidably happen. A child can see that. Maybe finally listen to your users and give up Windows as a service immediately. It's a dead end road. If you want Windows a service, ceate an OS in the cloud. The time is not there for that to be rolled out on a large scale for everyone (if ever). So wait, just wait. Stop trying to forcedly achieve something over the backs over your users that is impossible to achieve. I really hope someone in Redmont reads this and just thinks about it all… :-/ If nothing changes, the end of Windows will be unavoidable. It's broken by design now.
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dph853AskWoody Plus
It appears to be much easier to keep malicious code and malware off an older version of Windows than it is to patch or upgrade the OS these days. Which is more vulnerable, a well fortified end of life version of windows or anything labelled Windows 7 – 10 that is receiving patches?
Even Microsoft's unilateral retiring of older OS components, protocols and applications can leave one twisting.
Maye antivirusscanners should get an option to block unwanted uodates and upgrades. It would make life a lot easier for Windows users. Just a suggestion.
Carl DAskWoody Lounger
3 days after doing a clean install of 1809 on my main PC – still no problems (fingers crossed). But, if MS releases a new ISO for 1809 in the next week or so then I may consider another clean install when I get the time.
Old HP laptop wouldn't upgrade/clean install to 1809 so it is still on 1803 where it will probably stay for the time being.
Not wanting to make light of an obviously serious situation but I had a chuckle at this post by user 'tempemeaty' on The Register site:
"I felt a great disturbance in the Farce, as if millions of files suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
Says it all, really… comment of the week, in my opinion.
Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit.
Whenever Windows 10 (and other MS products) experience a [kvetch] event the usual MS behavior has been to ignore the situation for as long as possible. Public releases contain weasel-worded language to minimize the problem by claiming that it only affects a small number of users and that MS is investigating.
Notwithstanding the usual deflection by referring to "isolated reports", in this case Microsoft's decision to pull the plug on the 1809 upgrade instead of doing nothing while it investigates is tantamount to a guilty plea.
Francois3000AskWoody Lounger
I have upgraded 6 of my machines thus far + 2 client machines, without 1 problem. As I do IT support, I like to jump in early to experience problems and learning how to fix or avoid them(I am my own guinea pig), and I have full backups done daily.
"This time the problem is particularly dire, because it's unclear how Microsoft is going to restore data it deleted." – Many are likely to have permanently lost their data from this. What I would like to know is how something bad ever got with any cursory QA procedure. This feels like the code was never unit tested to make sure it might work correctly before release.
@lurks-about yeah good point I was wondering about that my self, if they have a "Secret" Data recovery weapon I would love to know about it as Data recovery is fraught at the best of times only really effective in about 50-75% of the times in my experience of sufficiently good quality to be used or of use again.
Or the other premise is, do they know where that Data's gone? and how long did they know about this fault? and presumably figured out the destination for all that missing data.
Finally did folks move on and wipe the disk, make other changes try to revert back or render any "Secret" hiding place effectively useless from which to recover the missing Data. Some of us out here cant have a Machine effectively in "Limbo" waiting for M$ to prognosticate and cobble a solution together they have deadlines, work to do and other stuff and a machine "frozen in time" is simply just not on the cards in many instances.
This issue sure has made "Rover ate my homework" a popular (and truthful) excuse!
lmao 🙂 "Satya Nadella ate my Homework!"
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geekdomAskWoody Plus
I'm not looking forward to Patch Tuesday. I can hear the screams from here.G{ot backup} BetaTest
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender TRV=1909 WUMgr
offline▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.572 x32 Atom N270 RAM1GB HDD WindowsDefender
online▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.630 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox84.0b6 WindowsDefender TRV=2004 WUMgr
Reports of the missing files after an upgrade exist in the Feedback Hub from at least 3 months ago:
Sampling of Feedback Hub reports of data deletion from as early as 3 months ago pic.twitter.com/xlfsuEbh1d
— Rafael Rivera (@WithinRafael) October 6, 2018
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BarryAskWoody Plus
I to am a seeker. always have been always will be. I upgraded using the upgrade assistant and lost everything in my pictures folder. Between my back up and one drive I was able to recover most but not all and the then my back up drive failed. go figure.
2 points
A. from what I have read it seems that the problem was the upgrade assistant.
B. i belive one drive is to blame for the data loss. we shall see
Windows 10 Home V 20H2
radosuafAskWoody Lounger
Is Dona Sarkar still tweeting Insider Program is a huge success?MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
They were too busy trying to turn the Insider program into some local community services group, so they didn't even have time to tweet about that yet, not to mention concentrate on reading the bug reports in the Feedback Hub.
Twitter.com is completely blocked from my network. Might as well not even exist, and my household's better for it.
Regarding Ms. Sarkar, don't I recall she is quite fond of using the word "hustling" w/regard to the insider program?
Am I the only one who sees the meaning of that word?
Microsoft Has A Software Quality Problem – absolutely spot on. IOW, getting "feedback" from millions of "testers" is completely useless, with legit reports of serious issues invisible due to all the useless noise.
This bug has been reported 3 months ago. By several "insiders".
It is hard to believe that a company as large and experienced at software design as Microsoft would let the reports of data loss get buried among the fluff. Back in the earlier days of Firefox, I reported several bugs to Mozilla using their Bugzilla system, and I remember distinctly that a dataloss bug was marked as such, and the bug was elevated to the highest level of severity. A confirmed dataloss bug, even one that had affected few people, would be a blocker for the release of the next version, meaning that no release would be possible until that bug was resolved. Dataloss bugs were emergencies!
Even if Microsoft only received a relative handful of reports of data loss, it would be enough for them to move the bug to confirmed status. Once that happens, the bug should have been triaged in such a way that there was not going to be any such thing as it being lost in the noise. The public doesn't get to see the internal MS bug trackers the way they do with open source projects like Firefox, but if MS was doing its job competently, some kind of system would be in place to elevate severe but relatively infrequently encountered (during Insider testing) bugs to the level of importance they deserve.
It's just unconscionable that this bug was reported by Insiders and still made it into the wild to mess up people's actual daily-use PCs. When you have hundreds of millions of users, even a rare bug is likely to bite hundreds of thousands of them.
Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux 5.20.3 User Edition)
As an ex QC manager (not in IT) problems should always be classified by the severity of the issue coupled with the frequency of the issue. Severity should always override frequency. A very severe but rare event should be at the top of the QC queue to be addressed while and common but mild problem is nearer the bottom or at the bottom. But in some quality schemes there is a tendency to blindly use a Pareto diagram (count the occurrences of an issue and solve the one with the most hits first) without considering the severity of the issue itself. The Pareto diagram is simple to implement and requires minimal review of each report. It appears MS is doing something like this, count the hits with no review of the severity of the issue. Thus common but minor issues get fixed while disastrous but relatively rare problems get ignored.
As I see it, Microsoft does again what nowadays it excels in. Boring. Revealing. Embarassing.
…And leveraging mediocrity like nobody's business.
I'm sure they'll try to turn the file deletion thing into a selling point for OneDrive.
"Sorry, didn't mean to delete everyone's files. But hey those who chose, as we suggested, to back their files up to the cloud were able to retain all their data!"
I was thinking the very same thing. And they've actually been saying this already in reference to their OD for Biz for some time in regards to ransomware attacks.
~ Group "Weekend" ~
A certain big name in the Linuxverse once said: "Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done."
Windows 10's motto today is quite different: "Service is to prevent getting work done, but maximising the maintenance needed for getting to that outcome."
I've done some poking (although not extensively) among the problem reports, and one impression that I come away with is that the problem may be related to OneDrive.
I'm only speculating, but it may be that Microsoft presumes that users have Microsoft accounts (and therefore, open access to OneDrive), and then the upgrade process is mirroring files to OneDrive (perhaps as a temporary thing, to be returned after upgrade). The huge flaw in that is that local accounts haven't been accounted for, and if there's no connection to OneDrive, then mirroring isn't happening, and the process that initiates erasure doesn't bother to confirm whether the content has actually been copied (and without introducing errors in the transfer). I also see indications that data stored in non-standard locations (i.e., outside the normal folders in user profiles) may not be affected.
To me, it's incomprehensible that Microsoft could make a mistake that simple (and that consequential), but given how hard they're pushing Windows as a Service, and integration with cloud-based services, it seems entirely possible that there was no significant testing of how upgrades behave (or if testing was done, results not getting adequate reporting and/or follow-up action) for users that are working from local accounts.
I haven't followed reports closely enough to tell, but I wonder what the pattern of successful or problem updates has any corresponding patterns with whether users are using Microsoft IDs or local IDs.
Microsof's Insider Program (the alpha testers) are required to log in with a Microsoft ID. As such, they initially have access to One Drive by default.
When MS released v1803 initially, not all the Insider settings were reset to the default in the public version. It is not unreasonable that you are right in your thinking.
However, there have been numerous reports of the data deletion bug being present in the Insider Preview, and MS not doing anything about it. Maybe the same cause – Insiders not using or blocking One Drive use? Who knows. MS will never reveal their findings.
Microsof's Insider Program (the alpha testers) are required to log in with a Microsoft ID. As such, they initially have access to One Drive by default.
That's incorrect. It's possible to be an insider with a local account. You just have to provide an "app account" for the insider settings and you can refuse to convert the local account to a MS account, as usual. But I seriously doubt that many insiders choose to do this.
Hmmm… Is the "app account" a Microsoft account with a Microsoft ID?
OneDrive behaves like malware in Windows 10, if you clearly say you don't want it, Microsoft knows better and pushes this piece of junk time and time again. I don't like it that a service I will never use in my life is so tightly integrated in an already shabby operating system.
Ok. I think we reached the point that as a professional – but also a home user with important / unique files on a computer – you can safely say that Microsoft hit a brick wall with its update/grade schedule. What now? Is this company ignorantly going to keep on upgrading and updating in this pace and basically act if nothing happened? Or will they finally hit the brakes and have some good internal restructuring before any big upgrade is rolled out again? Isn't it time to take a pause and patch for a year and a half the problems that are still there in the versions that are presently used, while not rolling out new versions with new toe curling blunders in it? And then simply call Windows 1803 the final version of Windows 10, followed after those 1,5 years by Windows 11? In other words: back to normal and back to managable for as well the developers of Windows (who are obviously and understandably not capable of keeping up) as well as the users. To give rest, peace and above quality for everyone? Thank you, that would be great and what everyone would like. Project 'Windows as a service' (whatever that meant anyway) failed, time to recuperate and go back to what is normal for any OS.
GoneToPlaidAskWoody Plus
Hi Woody,
Wow. It sure does appear that Microsoft was aware of the issue, based on what you have presented in terms of forensic evidence in your Computerworld news article.
I quote from your news article:
"There were many reports of this precise bug during the Win10 1809 beta test. Microsoft was duly informed through the Feedback Hub, and Microsoft responded 'We've got it.'"
The above quote, if true, speaks volumes about Microsoft's overriding goal to keep time schedules and commitments, instead of quality. What else is there to say, since this is so blatantly obvious?
Best regards
Edit to remove HTML. Please use the "Text" tab in the entry box when you copy/paste.
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I've noticed a correlation between the size of the company and the tendency to explain away problems as "people have screwed up computers".
It's true that SOME people have computer problems – let's be honest, a complex device built from the cheapest possible parts, without error correcting hardware, and possibly maintained badly, might actually lose files on its own. Hardly anyone with any experience at all hasn't had a disk fail, for example, or a bad RAM.
But there needs to be a willingness to accept responsibility, rather than continually try to shed it. No doubt there are engineers in Microsoft who really care, but if their management is forcing them to put out software that's poorly conceived – or just not ready yet – and figures it's okay to release with a certain level of bugs because they can be managed later, then we have what we see.
There are some who say the wheels of progress can't be stopped just to take all the time needed to make things right. Then those same folks inevitably direct their developers to build on top of foundations that haven't been made solid.
As a bit of real world experience at my small software company…
My last customer-reported bug was a case where our software crashed unexpectedly. Our internal instrumentation logged the reason and location, and the customer reported that information with his support request (we don't do telemetry, we ask customers to approve the sending of information).
Lo and behold, his ancient ATI display driver, designed for Vista, ported to Windows 7, and now running in Windows 10 to support his circa 2006 ATI 4800 series video card, had crashed while doing a perfectly valid OpenGL operation. We even discerned why: The 32 bit address space was too fragmented and buffers could not be allocated.
Did we dismiss the problem out of hand because "clearly it was his problem, not ours"? No.
A. We discussed whether there's anything we're doing in our software that increases the likelihood of address space fragmentation.
B. We researched, on behalf of the customer, ATI's latest driver release for his system, where we discovered there is no Windows 10 support for that hardware, and there is no newer release of a display driver than the outdated one the customer is running.
C. We suggested to the customer that he should see if using the available 64 bit edition of the photo editor he is using instead of the 32 bit one would suit his needs.
D. We even suggested a possible modern graphics card replacement, because today's least expensive (i.e., retail price at a few tens of dollars) GPUs will run rings around even decent "gamer" cards from 12 years ago.
E. We suggested that as a workaround, if he can't or doesn't want to do any of the above, after doing a lot of image editing he close his photo editor, log out of Windows, then back in and reopen the editor to get a fresh, unfragmented heap.
While we couldn't directly "fix the bug" for him, the customer, who had taken the time to send in the support request, was actually happy to get this information back from us, since it implied we know what's wrong and why it happened, and armed with information he now can make a plan for what to do about it.
The above analysis and customer response took literally 35 minutes of my time. Because we care and choose to own every problem reported, our quality is now second to none and such reports don't come in very often – e.g., once every few weeks.
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Noel, the difference you are reporting is the realization that the user is often not an IT guru and might understand what is going on. But if someone who does understand what is going on steps they will listen to the report if gives them options to 'solve' the problem. Especially when the expert takes the time to explain layman terms what is going on. No MS 'bafflegab' needed.
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The main thing I never understood of Windows 10 is: why the hurry, pressure, of forcidly introducing new features no matter what. Most important is a base functionality that functions as smooth as possible. All the rest is non-vital. Why not – for example – make the user interface a seperate module and update – at wish of the user – those wonderful but useless transparancy-effects, new colors, new animations etc? Such minor things for sure don't certify for a total reinstall of Windows. I always say: an operating system should be a service to software running on it. Nothing more, nothing less. If the developer of an operating system ads extra's: great. But they should always be optional. This approach could have saved soooo many troubles… Now we are forced to do risky upgrades for minor and mainly unnecessary features a large part of the user community is not interested in at all. That's were it goes wrong every time.
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ZaphyrusAskWoody Lounger
I think all of the Windows userbase would be happier if we could control updates like the pro versions and if Feature updates would be removed.
at least that is what it would take for me to defend Windows 10.Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.
You know folks if you simply must have the new Version from M$ and I realise there are a few that do. Then really try it out in a VHD or VHDX or even a VM as one or two esteemed MVP's here @Noel-carboni and @ascaris spring to mind as the resident Guru's on the subject. I prefer VHD(X)'s basically as often the new version moves on elsewhere after testing either to my HDD/SSD or in the real world as a clean install. The last in place upgrade was Win8.1 to Win10 1507 years ago with no data involved or minimal that was backed up, before that it may have been 95/98 days?? Its not often least ways, he says trying to hide his age lol 😉
Strictly speaking I have done in place upgrades on "Bare bones" no data involved upgrades to fix features i.e. Pet Peeve at the moment Networking, it worked in 1803 but now doesnt in 1809 in an attempt to remedy the issue, unsuccessfully in many cases. But for trusting your "pride and Joy" and all your data well that's an emphatic "Nope!!!"
The good thing is about VM's, VHD's they are reasonably portable, they involve no partitioning and fairly quick to set up. VHDX's takes literally about 10 secs to create, including initialisation, making active and entering the parameter's etc can be done from inside Windows in the Disk partition page or from the CMD line with a USB/CD/DVD install and we are not talking a huge CMD line strings either. Anyways just a thought or something to consider when the next 6 monthly maelstrom comes around, pity really I had fairly high hopes for this version, oh its fine for me as its a clean install on a VHDX away from my Data.
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Thanks for bringing up virtualization. Virtual machines can help with many things, not least of which is evaluating new OS versions.
A computer made in the last 5 years, especially if overprovisioned a bit with higher-end hardware, can probably support running a virtual machine.
I'm quite fond of VMware Workstation myself. I consider it a few hundred dollars well-spent, and I would certainly have had to buy more hardware if I weren't able to boot up, in half a minute, a virtual machine running any given version of Windows for testing.
Perhaps VMware's greatest feature is an ability to save and restore virtual machine snapshots. It's easy to manage a whole bank of successive snapshots and restore one literally in seconds (bearing in mind that my I/O hardware is very fast).
There's nothing like trying to actually use an OS to get to know it, and virtualization allows that without actually committing to something that's difficult to get back from on your hardware.
@noel-carboni yeah virtualisation is definitely the way to go with the current M$ situation, none of the perils of yesteryear that partitioning used to have although its painless these days and with the advent of mostly larger disks users may want to consider a couple of options either setting a partition aside of say about 100GB for testing or a beginners Virtualisation package such as Virtual Box free as the wind and relatively simple to set up, although not top of the line such as VMware or Parallels but it'll get the job done with out too much trauma. You touched on Snapshots the real beauty of Virtualisation its a sweet deal way better for rolling back to happier times, more relevance just lately with what's emerging down the update chute from Redmond. I dabbled years ago with Hyper-V free again to users Wins 8.1 10 Pro and above, however not every machine has the V+ (ed: and I believe applies for Virtual Box as well for x64) setting in the Bios to make that a viable option for X64 (amd64 64bit) I believe its got a whole lot easier though than the old set up with the advent of the new improved "Wizards" (Seemingly Windows has more Wizards than Harry Potter lol 😉 )
When I am done with the VHD and I want keep it as a permanent feature I export it to a Partition typically about 10-15 mins, say for example C:\ its format the C:\ drive, taking care to leave the 3 system partitions in place and then as simple as typing BCDBOOT C:\WINDOWS (but only if it doesent boot for the first time which seldom happens) and your off to the races, Job done. As I have Win7 Pro and Win8.1 Pro on here as well in their own partitions its a breeze using a 3rd Party Util such as Aomei or Partition Magic there's lots of free reputable ones out there. With Win's 7 and 8.1 you can easily image them using Sysprep and capture if you've got the winning combination you want to keep but as they seldom go wrong you spend a lot of time really only just for peace of mind and of course should disaster strike.
There's lots of virtualisation options for folks out there and with this latest "Data crunching/chomping" episode its time folks took a second look at virtualisation and with this little free utility VHD Attach by Josep Medvadip of MIT Boot time attachment as a partition would show is now done automatically and painlessly without having to manually attach so that little niggle is successfully put to bed 🙂
We have paused the rollout of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update (version 1809) for all users as we investigate isolated reports of users missing some files after updating.
I personally found that the Adobe Flash files and the related registry keys are missing, although it looks like Flash 32-bit acts as if it is installed on the system. I am not sure if this is a new implementation of Adobe Flash in Windows 1809 or it is related to the missing files. I found the same on an upgrade, but on a clean install too. Not the same thing on the server equivalent 2019 where the files and registry settings are in their expected location. But Server 2019 is more like the
LTSBLTSC version of 1809 which I haven't tried.
For those who missed it, here is how Adobe Flash can be removed correctly and completely from Windows 10 and 8.1
How to remove the built-in version of Flash in Win10 and 8.1
2 users thanked author for this post.
I can confirm that it was expired from WSUS too.
I can see expired:
Windows 7 and 8.1 upgrade to Windows 10, version 1809
Feature update to Windows 10 (consumer editions)
Feature update to Windows 10 (business editions)
which in other words means all upgrade versions.
The Feature update to Windows 10 files can be used for clean install after minor processing with tools published elsewhere to convert ESD to ISO.
However, the clean installations are likely to be less affected, as one could assume that there are no personal files to be deleted on the system when performing a clean install.
3 users thanked author for this post.
It is increasingly clear that Microsoft does not now, and has not (since the release of vista) given a d**n about users of their products. If you are long and strong enough you can afford to buy "concern" from Microsoft in the form of various support contracts.
But, that does not improve the quality or security of their products.
The largest installed base of Windows 10 is personal computers and devices. Very few of those users can afford support, and lack the knowledge or patience of those who maintain and administer business/corporate systems; they struggle with the concept of virtual machines. In other words, they are the suckers that P.T. Barnum referred to, and are not capable of dealing with the plethora of bugs, failures, and disasters that Windows 10 has become. In simple terms, they are collectively overwhelmed.
Microsoft's response has been a shrug, "Yeah? So?" (insert the sound of a herd of crickets in a vacuum). Microsoft does not care, they don't have to.
Any operating system should be just that. If any specific user needs Candy Crush Soda then they can install it. It should only require security fixes and bug patches, when they arise, not on a schedule, and not all wadded up into a single humongous cumulative olio that is (probably by intent) impossible to effectively and reliably troubleshoot.
We were all told that Windows 10 was free. Which, "…from a certain point of view, is true…" Microsoft's profit comes from all of the user data that it collects, and sells. The telemetry is massive, complete, and integral to Windows. It cannot be entirely turned off.
A user can't easily block updates, and adherence to only accepting security updates is no protection, as a failed security update is frequently fixed, but is only available as part of the next cumulative update which of course includes all of the schlock that the user is trying to avoid.
The only solution is to stop using Windows. As I mentioned earlier, an operating system should be just that. A user should never have to interact with the OS, other than to sign in and launch applications. When features, tools and programs begin to be embedded the OS becomes bloatware, and now requires more effort and knowledge to maintain. Like a vehicle, the user just wants to start it up and go somewhere.
Linux is not the solution, but it could be part of one. There are multiple user interfaces available, which should be the only interaction with an OS. There are many apps and programs that will accomplish nearly all tasks required, with the exception of most games. Setting up a dual boot Linux/Windows system is not beyond the capability of most users, they just need clear concise and easily understood directions to do so.
Bellyaching, b***ing, and whining will accomplish nothing. Only a noticeable and significant move away from all things Windows will get Microsoft's attention. Whether it changes any is unknown, but we all must fight the good fight. No one else will.
The only solution is to stop using Windows.
Seems like a fair number have actually stopped getting new versions, given the stats that show that usage of Windows 7 isn't falling off. Personally, I'm still rockin' 8.1 and 7 on my two hardware systems myself, and rather enjoying their lack of Windows 10-ness.. 🙂
Microsoft lost me as a customer when they decided I needed to pay twice for Windows 8.1 after offering me a free upgrade to Media Center Edition that installed then just botched my license. After that, zero additional money has made it from me to Microsoft.
I probably built one of the wings of the Redmond campus for all the dollars I spent in the last 40 years, or influenced to be spent by the companies I've been at.
I made a pact with myself that I would actually buy Windows 10 and become a customer again if they actually made it worth buying. Hasn't happened yet. Hint, Microsoft: Bloating it further and making it more intrusive isn't the way… Higher quality, better features will do it.
Chronocidal GuyAskWoody Lounger
I think a lot of the problem with windows is the hardware being used. It's not uniform. Everybody who manufactures hardware has a different version of this card or that mother board or something new just out. Just like the rims on a car, you can't upgrade a chevy rim to a ford. It doesn't work. Trying to put out an update that one size fits all is just not gonna work.
I forget who I was discussing this very issue with some time ago, but I think some of Microsoft's issues boil down to them trying to mimic Apple, while having none of the control over the hardware infrastructure that allows Apple's approach to be successful.
They're approaching the Windows update process as if they have even an inkling of the vast myriad of unique hardware combinations that exist in the PC environment. The "insiders" were supposed to be able to mitigate that, but how many people who put their own blood sweat and tears into a custom built CPU are going to throw it to the dogs by testing new updates on it? How many dedicated render farms, gaming rigs, and number crunching boxes are ever going to be subjected to new patches to make sure they don't explode? The PCs that may be at the highest risk of a catastrophic failure due to a botched update might also be the ones that will never get tested before it's shoved down their throat.
In the past, Windows versions were built to a standard that would work across a broad range of modern hardware, and then there was time for hardware manufacturers to adjust, and upgrade their products on that new baseline over the life of the OS. That doesn't happen anymore, because MS is ripping out the foundation every 6 months, and leaving all the hardware developers reeling as they try to adjust to all the things that MS felt like changing.
Microsoft does not remotely possess the time, resources, or dedication to test every conceivable hardware configuration that they are pushing Windows 10 into. They can't even get Windows 10 compatible with their own in-house hardware, for crying out loud. I'd be astonished if they can even test on 1% of the configurations that they are bound and determined to stuff full of their latest and greatest OS. It's a process that's been doomed to fail from the start.
With all the language thrown about in recent times about how it's your responsibility to stay patched, and it's up to you to stop the spread of malware, the rhetoric is starting to sound a lot more like how you're required to vaccinate your children before they're allowed into public school. And that's what Windows Update feels like now, a mandatory vaccine against.. whatever the latest threat is. That's all well and good, but what's the acceptable loss rate for PCs that have a fatal allergic reaction to the vaccine?
I really hope this disaster comes back to bite Microsoft's hind end clean off. Something has to knock some sense into them, and I just hope it doesn't take anything more serious than this to do the trick.
Still, the present situation didn't find it roots in hardware. Even that would be solvable. A problem related to hardware is solvable by an updated driver. Nowadays, the hardware – despite the fact it might not look like that at first sight, is more standardized (and relatively limited) then ever before in the history of Windows. What was the cause once again was simply arrogance. The 'we know what is good for you'-attitude. The pushing of hardly tested updates and upgrades. Using home users as guinee pigs. Sneakily changing users privacy settings every time again. Pushing apps no one needs nor wants. Injecting advertisements. Forcing people to use Windows as Microsoft wants it. Think Edge, the browser debacle for example. In short: the problems stem from an ununderstandable company policy. The 'milking out' of users. Somehow, they keep getting away with it. But for how long? This bug was clearly one step to far. Even if it turns out it was just a quirk, an unlucky interaction between a buggy OneDrive and something deep inside the installer: this should never have happened. Right now is the time for crisis management at Microsoft. If they don't change headings in a drastic way, it will be done soon for Windows 10. If not already too late. As a company, you don't want this c*** on your systems. As a home user neither. That's the message they must read in all those complaints. Not only the ones presently outed, but the ones outed since the intro of 10. If they don't listen it's over soon.
Chronocidal GuyAskWoody Lounger
The fun thing though.. we honestly do not know that this was not hardware related. As far as I know, there's been no definite answer on what caused this. All signs point to someone screwing up a bit of software, but what if the glitch was caused by a particular device driver for a particular piece of hardware?
I've seen screwy database management produce events and bugs that literally should not be possible, because the cause and effect appeared completely unrelated. Imagine walking outside to your front yard, punching your mailbox, and it sets your car on fire. It's what happens when code gets shoved through development so fast: it turns into a mess of spaghetti, and there's no way limited beta testing is going to discover all the catastrophic corner case landmines the software is hiding.
True, but I meant this more as a general observation.
Carl DAskWoody Lounger
If you are on 1809 and see no data loss, stick right there. The issue is in the updating process, not after you've gotten there.
Thanks, Susan.
Looks like I was never in danger of losing anything during the 1809 install because all of my files are on a second solid state drive which I always unplug when installing Windows (any version).
I do this to prevent the Windows boot files ending up on the wrong partition/drive which seems to happen quite a lot from what I've heard over the years if you have more than one drive and you don't unplug all except the one Windows is being installed on.
Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit.
There are a lot of good cases to be made for doing things "an atypical way". In your case you've chosen to take control of where your data is stored, vs. just putting it in the folders (e.g., "My Documents") Microsoft prescribes for the task.
There's nothing wrong with doing so, and in fact it can exempt you from the kinds of problems like this one where doing things "the typical way" leads to the operating system losing your files.
Microsoft, it seems, would like us to lose sight of the "geeky" parts of using an operating system and "just let them handle things". That – and this whole "…as a service" idea – might be more viable if they didn't have butterfingers.
CybertoothAskWoody Plus
A question for you, @woody:
In your CW post, at the end you provide a number of links to reports of this bug that showed up in the Feedback Hub. However, clicking on any of those links leads to a page that says:
This content is available only in the FeedbackHub app through the Windows 10.
But you did post the links, so there must be some other way to reach them? Otherwise I can't imagine what the use might be of posting the links.
P.S. It really does say "through the Windows 10″ and not "through Windows 10."
They are probably only available if you log in with an Insider ID.
Actually, it has to be accessed through Windows 10 even if you are a Windows Insider with a valid Windows ID because I am and it will only allow me to access the Feedback Hub through Windows 10.
At this point, anti-virus programs and security experts should start classifying Windows Updates as a form of malware. Whereas before they strongly urged enabling automatic update to get those security patches in — here it seems like, if you patch Windows, you're installing malware onto your computer.
Signs that maybe other operating systems are the future and Windows is something to be banished to the history books and the digital archives.
No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
2 users thanked author for this post.
g3bAskWoody Plus
I am curious I would like to know if the version 1803 is now available again since 1809 was pulled due to bug issues? On the official windows site.
I d/l an ISO file a few weeks ago to use with the rufus boot tool. Has anyone used that to do a clean install?
Thanks for your replies,
@g3b as of 0220am MST it looks like its back to 1803 on the Win !0 web site so if that's what you need you may want to "hussle": https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10. As for doing a clean install sure it works fine just select make .ISO for another Machine, read the M$ settings i.e. if you need something else don't use the M$ settings but for using Rufus you, ideally need to create an .ISO for use on another machine its all fairly self explanatory.
1 user thanked author for this post.
woody & Susan, check out this article from the Thurrott.com web site titled "Microsoft Has A Software Quality Problem"
it was posted a few days ago
Yep. Mehedi's right, of course. The question is (1) Can Microsoft fix it? and (2) Will Microsoft fix it?
And that highlights a fundamental problem with Microsoft's testing process for Windows.
Obviously no-one investigates the lower percentage of issues, which mean bugs get through.
the Feedback Hub simply isn't capable of dealing with issues from millions of users, especially when the app is mostly used by fans to provide feedback
Therein lays the problem, a feedback hierarchy/ prism is required to slow the process down and evaluate every issue, meaning longer release cycles 🙂
Quotes extracted from the article: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/187407/microsoft-has-a-software-quality-problemNo problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
"Because these issues aren't widespread, most of these reports from Insiders had low levels of upvotes, ranging from 3-10. That means Microsoft likely never even noticed these reports from Insiders"
Thx @ep for posting that and from the article above that quote, So does that mean Bug's and Major Show Stoppers in the Insider Programme are actually voted on in some kind of convoluted FaceBook style popularity contest as to determine whether they warrant attention or not?
Presumably that's where M$'s much vaunted AI comes in, not so much Artificial Intelligence more like whatever gets the most Votes gets fixed. Sure would account for a lot.
1 user thanked author for this post.
SueskaAskWoody Plus
Good point @BobbyB. I am an insider and sometimes I will just give a thumbs up without comment to the Feedback hub. For example if the post states please do not deprecate a certain program, I think a thumbs up is appropriate for "I agree". If there is an issue or problem however, I only give a thumbs up if I am having the same issue. Generally I would comment with supporting information. As an insider, my understanding is that you should always search to see if what you want to post is already posted.
Until your comment, it never occurred to me that upvotes could be for popularity or to get attention for the issue (and not necessarily the number of insiders having the issue). Searching for "missing files" for my build (1809) I found a post titled something like "After the upgrade I am missing some files" with 147 upvotes. Oddly this post only had 3 comments. Perhaps this was a grouping of posts combined by microsoft. Some individual posts describing missing files were categorized under file and folders and other individual posts were categorized under an update category. If you searched for "deleted files" you get another set of posts.
The feedback hub could use revisions. Similar posts fall under several different categories. Sometimes it is not easy to find an issue already posted because of the terms or category that is was posted under.
A simple improvement for the Feedback Hub would be to have two ratings. Thumbs up for "I Agree" and a separate button/link for "I have this problem too"
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text:
Freebie H.U. - Facility Sci-fi set with P9 lighting and P4 version.
Created by seachnasaigh and MrSparky, here's a free detailed sci-fi set for Poser (and other apps) which comes in two flavours...
One for Poser 9 and all versions of Poser that supports the new emit light feature.
One for eariler versions of Poser and other apps.
The P9 version contains both a prop (.PP2) and .PZ3 scene with everything ready to go, including all the parts, information and instructions needed to make this work with the new lighting system work
The P4 version contains the same models and a few extra parts. Including a security section and consoles not in the P9 set. This version does NOT contain any lighting props, shaders or P9 based materials.
Plus theres templates (excluding lights) and full details of how this works, limitations and other important stuff in the readme file. !! Note: Unlike most readmes this one does need to be read before using!! :)
To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time such a set with Poser 9 lighting has been created and released for free. Also a very big big thanks to seachnasaigh who did all the amazing lighting work on this model.
Please note for a short time the actual download will be exclusive to CP. Thats to say thanks to their team for giving me a free copy of P9. After that, it'll be avaliable at my site and other places.
Alisa Uh-Lisa Posts: 1,299
Wow! This looks amazing, guys - many thanks!! :)
Elowan Posts: 388
Thnx mrsparky! Very nice set
ledhead Posts: 1,586
Looks pretty cool!
tsarist Posts: 1,386
Thanks Sparky!
I can't go download it now, but tomorrow. Oh yes.
Kesha2009 Posts: 108
Thank You :~D
Looks great, thank you very much!
Loaar Posts: 0
Is it just me or can you not "buy" a free item from poser direct unless you pay for the extended download service?
You can remove the extended download service from your cart by clicking on the rubbish bin next to it.
Loaar Posts: 0Kalypso said:You can remove the extended download service from your cart by clicking on the rubbish bin next to it.
I tried that and also tried to zero it out but it didn't work. I swapped to Firefox instead of Safari and it worked, not sure why it didn't with Safari though.
Thanks for the set, looks great.
Epithumia Posts: 4
Older versions of Firefox had trouble with the cart dustbin too.
Thanks, for the set, Mr Sparky.
The premade .pz3 renders as advertised. The P4 version loads fine too.
I'm afraid there is a problem with missing .obj files in the P9 library version, though.
I know the readme says this is Poser being pernickety about the path, but with all thanks the freebie, I don't think these files are in the zip file at all.
Note the files with unchecked boxes: these are the missing ones.
(Ignore the fact that you can't see the whole list - the ones off the bottom of the window are all valid.)temp.jpg536 x 1200 - 235KPost edited by Epithumia on
Kalypso - thanks for helping Loaar here.
Loaar - are you using a mac? I gather that can make a difference though it can be the same on a PC.
Like I can't remove the "insurance" at CP using IE, but can using firefox.
Also remember you don't need the CP insurance on freebies. If you need a repeat download of a freebie there, just 'buy' it again and remove the download service during purchase. Plus its important to note contary to popular belif that if you do pay for CP insurance the artist does not recive anything.
PS: Glad you liked the freebie.
BTW - just to clarify. That "insurance" is only at content paradise not my site. At Poserdirect and Sparkyworld most of the freebies are direct downloads. It's only the odd few that need to be downloaded from other sites, such as Chris's mega-cool gunhed model.
Epithumia - thanks for that info - let me check that out and I'll post back in a bit.
Alisa Uh-Lisa Posts: 1,299mrsparky said:
Also remember you don't need the CP insurance on freebies. If you need a repeat download of a freebie there, just 'buy' it again and remove the download service during purchase. Plus its important to note contary to popular belif that if you do pay for CP insurance the artist does not recive anything.
I wouldn't pay for the insurance anyway. I think that most vendors, if you provide proof that you bought the product, are nice enough to give you another download if needed. This is one of the SM policies that makes me buy almost nothing from CP other than occasional First Friday deals
xantor Posts: 27
Great. thank you. :-)
trumarcar Posts: 489
Fantabulous!! Thank you very much.:-)
Epithumia - just ran through this and can see whats happened here.
I know P9, PP2010 and PP2012 can sometimes struggle with spaces in filenames. Apparently the issue relates to the search settings, which I have no idea on how to change. Hence the line in the read me.
Figured simplest way was to change the filenames, which meant the material lab-tab couldn't see them. So I went back to an eariler version, which unfortunately didn't have those OBJ's in the new runtime structure. I've now added those files and updated the zip. That should remove any bugs, but for best results I'd say use the preset just in case.
Though I'm not surprised this happened. In fact I'm surprised theres not more issues with it. I don't just mean the simple pathing/file mistakes that can creep in when you blend runtimes from 2 artists, but the whole new way of lighting in P9. It's an incredibly complex system to setup, use and understand. Certainly takes ages to render with it.
Indeed I think without seachnasaigh's help, I couldn't have done it all. So I think we should all say a big thanks to him for putting in such an amazing amount of effort into this.
Alisa: The free approach is the one I've always taken.
Equally I can see why CP does that and also why customers don't like it.
Though at least it's not as bad as some companies. Needed some help from a large video software company recently and despite the crew I'm working for having a stupidly expensive full monty package. The video company said the only way to get help was to buy support tickets online at 8 quid (plus tax) for each 1/2 hour of support.
Can you imagine if all the poser sites did that or treated customers like airlines do. Now thats a big scary monster:)
Teresa Tyllo Posts: 141
Thank you soooo much for this terrific scifi set, MrSparky and seachnasaigh!
Love your freebies!!! :) :)Post edited by Teresa Tyllo on
Should we redownload the P9/PP2012 version?
SteveM17 Posts: 894
Possibly a dumb question: will this groovy looking freebie work in Daz Studio?
Kalypso - you can re-download if you want to.
Though as the bug only affected the P9 prop, it'd be quicker to parent everything to the floor and save the model back to the props library.
SteveM17 - Not a dumb question at all, the P4 version most certainly will work fine in all versions of studio.
Can't say the same for the P9 version as thats got extra bits to make the P9 lighting system work.
Though remember when you load any poser model into studio (not just this one) sometimes you might need to tweak the materials to get super duper quality. Heres an example of what I mean here....
...also please remember thats not a flaw with the model, poser or studio. Just how these apps read each others files differently. Kinda like trying to fit a vauxhall steering wheel to a ford.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
This was the year an increasingly plastic-faced Gordon Ramsay nailed down another season of MasterChef; Anthony Bourdain took aim (again) at the Food Network, this time to bitch-slap Paula Deen; and for a brief moment when Gwyneth Paltrow appeared on the cover of Bon Appétit, it seemed as if new editor Adam Rapoport would turn the magazine into a sort of Us Weekly with Cuisinart ads. Telling as these moments in food were, they weren't exactly cultural touchstones—not like the work of the men and women who make up this year's CHOW 13. Our third annual look at the most influential people in food and drink investigates the things that define us now: social and viral media, kitchen technology, and an overall yearning for authenticity via ingredients either foraged or made.
To create the imagery for this year's CHOW 13, we hired Liz Lomax. The New York–based illustrator has a unique process in which she creates figures out of clay, then houses them in 3-D environments made out of insulation foam. She photographs these dioramas, and voilà!
Ready to meet the people who together make up the face of the zeitgeist? Behold the 2011 CHOW 13. —J.B.


text:
Kavre Johnson ( Male ) was 24 years old at the time of the arrest. Kavre Johnson was arrested on 2019-11-26 10:23:29.KAVRE was arrested in LUBBOCK, Texas. The address information we have on record is: 2717 3RD STREET, LUBBOCK, TX 79403. The arrest was made by JAL .
Below you can find more information about the charges of Kavre Johnson (if available).
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Not the Kavre Johnson you were searching for? Use the search bar above to find the correct record or view all results for Kavre Johnson in All States.


text:
Sara Groves: Enjoying Beautiful Days
- Andrea Bailey CCM Magazine
- 2006 8 Feb
In last month's issue of CCM magazine, we selected Sara Groves' new disc, "Add to the Beauty" (INO), as our choice for "Album of the Year." And while we're not at liberty to mail each and every one of you a copy, we can point you in the right direction. It all starts with the artist herself. …
When you first shake Sara Groves' hand, you're sure you've met her somewhere before. She reminds you of your best friends from college with her Puma sneakers, hoodie, wispy ponytail and petite frame. Over lunch she munches on Thai food, articulately discusses the book she's reading about international justice and asks if you've heard of this great new singer/songwriter named Ray Lamontagne. Later, as you're saying goodbye, you find you have the urge to hug her and say, "We should hang out sometime!" But then you remember she's leaving tomorrow to join Jars of Clay, Chris Rice and author Donald Miller on a 24-city tour. And you realize you probably feel so oddly close to her because — well, to listen to her music is to see inside her soul.
"It's such a reflection of where I am," Groves agrees, "and that's so moveable or always changing, morphing. …"
Honest, heart-to-heart music has been Groves' trademark since a record called "Conversations" (INO) officially introduced the world to the homegrown-Minnesota-schoolteacher-turned-artist in 2001. She'd already released an independent CD leading to multiple signing offers, but Groves and her husband, Troy (who's also her manager), were patient until their ministry/artistry clicked with INO Records. Featuring pure, Sarah McLachlan-esque vocals and unabashed lyrics such as "Right now I don't hear so well / And I was wondering if you could speak up / I know that you tore the veil / so I could sit with you in person and hear what you're saying / but right now I just can't hear you" ("Hello God"), "Conversations" was hailed by critics for its brilliant songwriting and established Groves an immediate, devoted fan base. It also catapulted her into the role of mentor/hero to emerging artists such as Bethany Dillon.
"Sara is the kind of artist I could listen to every day for the rest of my life and, honestly, never grow tired of," says Dillon. "The other day there was something hanging over our house – just heaviness – and I went over and put on 'Conversations,' and it totally changed the atmosphere in the room. Her music welcomes Jesus into a room without it seeming forced or contrived. … There's such a sweet brokenness and honesty in her music that makes you want to live like that and see the Christ-ward life like she does."
Artists in the new school aren't the only ones who have come to "truly appreciate the depth and heart of Sara's artistry," as Jars of Clay lead singer Dan Haseltine puts it. "I'm a fan of both her music and the heart and passion behind it." If you, yourself, are a fan of "Conversations," or 2002's "All Right Here," or 2004's "The Other Side of Something," you've waited on pins and needles for Groves' much-anticipated fourth studio record, "Add to the Beauty." You're expecting the familiar poetic thoughtfulness and stark realism, and the feeling that you're reading letters from a friend or, perhaps, she is reading your letters in her songs.
And you aren't disappointed. But something's happened since the last time you heard her. A quiet change has taken place. As a result, Sara's music – once more melancholy in nature – is now more defined by hope and joy.
"I hadn't felt that sense of redemption [for awhile]," Groves says in hindsight. "I was feeling like, 'I'm not changing; no one around me is changing. Can people really change?' There's just a lot of bad news. … I was really fixated on the chaos and on sorrow and despair in a lot of ways."
Whether you've seen hardship in your own life and the lives around you, or you've switched on the news lately and wanted to shut your eyes, you can probably relate to the questions Groves brought before God: "Where are you?" "Where have you been?" and "How can you be good and yet these things happen?"
"His overwhelming response to me," she says, "has been through redemption, through the lives of people redeemed, and then through my own life redeemed, and through recognizing the small redemption in a million little places in my life. My shutting down and my fear and fixation on the bad news were kind of not allowing me to see."
And seeing has meant believing for Groves, who has seen God actively at work in her friends' lives during the past year. One dear friend was on drugs, living on the streets of Kansas City with her boyfriend. One day, she got up and knew that was all she would ever be if she didn't leave her boyfriend. So she did. "To walk away from something when there's nothing else there, that's a bravery that goes unnamed a lot of times," Groves says.
She's also watched another friend stick with her husband through an extramarital affair and have two more children together. "It's not instant, it's not ultra-miraculous healing. It's waking up each day, making hard choices, [doing the] small things."
Seeing this has moved Groves to a new understanding that while life's always going to be a struggle, there's something good, true and beautiful happening – something worth fighting for.
"…I feel like for the first time, maybe in a different way, I'm not a skeptic anymore. … I used to kind of always take a stance of, 'We're always in this grime, and maybe God's going to help us.' And if there's any difference on this album and in this message, it's that, yeah, we're always fighting the good fight. … But I feel like something broke loose in me. … I feel more hopeful now about those skirmishes, and more hopeful about the fruit of it. I feel like the fruit is good, and the Kingdom is good, and what He promised us is real. … It's written in your heart, and it's doable to actually have fruits of the Spirit and the Spirit of God resonating in your marriage and in your family and in your life."
This awareness prompted Groves to write the lyric "Redemption comes in strange places and small spaces," on the album's title track. Another song, "Rewrite This Tragedy," her favorite on the record, also has roots in the idea of redemption being manifested in our broken lives.
"I feel like I finally quit [relying on my own strength] in many areas of my life and said, '"Lord, you know. You write this. I can't write this any better. I can't change my patterns. I can't change my cycles. I keep coming back to the same junk. …' I feel like God has really rewritten my life in some amazingly brilliant ways."
If you listen closely, all the tracks on "Add to the Beauty" are tied together by this redemptive element, a response to Groves' former skepticism. "They all tie back to 'The Other Side of Something.' If you were to play 'Like a Skin' from [that album] – 'It feels like I've been waking up only to fight with the same old stuff / change is flowing / it fills me with such doubt / come on new man / where have you been / help me wriggle from the self I'm in / and leave it like a skin upon the ground' – you could then go and play 'Something Changed Inside Me.' It's my answer to 'Like a Skin,' this feeling I've had that people just can't change. And the realization that not only have other people changed around me, but I've changed."
Groves takes this inward shift one step further by exploring the concept of "add to the beauty," the phrase she uses to describe the works God has prepared in advance for us to do. Adding to the beauty is "the Kingdom coming. It's a little brick. It's a little mortar," she says. "Now then, how do we live with this change in our lives, with this divine rewriting that's taken place? What's this thing that God's set me here to do because it's not just to groom my personal faith all my life. I've grown up much of my life grooming my own faith. In the American church, we are so good at that. We've got the ultimate worship experience. … We've got every resource under the sun to perfect our personal devotional life, and now what? You don't go to school to keep going to school. You go to school to then go do something."
For such a deeply personal album, Groves needed a producer who would help her capture the essence of her piano-driven sound. Her friend Charlie Peacock (Switchfoot, Nichole Nordeman), who had co-produced the elaborate "The Other Side of Something," recommended Sara return to a "Conversations" feel for this next album. "You're a mom and pop store. People trust you," he told her. While Groves knew she couldn't go back thematically, she did "feel a compulsion to take beautiful pictures of the songs, not to prop anything up." The two of them started tossing around names of other producers, and she felt an immediate tickle when Peacock suggested his one-time mentor Brown Bannister (MercyMe, The Afters). Bannister had produced several of Groves' all-time favorite albums, including many by the hero of her youth, Amy Grant.
"When my husband Troy and I met with Brown, it felt like a great fit. What Charlie had said about Brown was, 'You can't find a better song photographer than him.' And that's exactly what happened. He has an amazing sense for the songs. He doesn't come at it with a preconceived idea of what it's going to be. He comes at it kind of wondering, 'What does this song want to be?'… He was very transparent as a producer; he wanted my input."
"Every word, every note, every texture, every musical stroke is so important to Sara," Bannister says, "not because she is a control freak, but because she cares so deeply that every aspect of the recording should be a servant to the revelation and truth that God has given her to communicate. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to guess how refreshing it is to work with an artist like this. I laughed, I cried, and by the time this goes to print, I will have ordered the T-shirt!"
The combination of teaming with Bannister and pursuing new songwriting collaborations stretched Groves beyond anything she's ever done. "Ed Cash was my counselor/cowriter,' she relates as she reflects on her cowriting experiences. "For me, getting to songs is such a personal unearthing of things. Peter Gabriel has a song called 'Digging in the Dirt.' It's all about … digging in the dirt … this introspective thing, and for me, songwriting is like that. [With] Gordon Kennedy … I was in awe. I was kind of quiet that whole time because I was pretty star-struck. … He just laid out these gems, these ideas [for] the bridge from 'Loving a Person.' And then Matt Bronlewee was just a ball. We just talked for two hours and then in 30 minutes wrote 'Add to the Beauty.'" As a result, Groves says her writing has improved and her songs benefited. "I'd love to do it again!"
Gifted by these new thoughts and processes, "Add to the Beauty" is a landmark album for her. "I finally scratched an itch that I've been trying to get. … I did it – I used the least church language I've ever used and yet made the clearest declaration of faith I've made in my career. And to me, that's a goal I've been striving for, to speak to people's hearts, not to their culture, not to their church background, but … I want Eve and Adam to be able to listen to this album under the tree and say, 'Isn't that true? Isn't that the thing?'"
Her joy is contagious, the joy of a friend who's figured out that nagging worry, found a new kind of peace and reached out and given some of it to you.
Looking toward the future, Groves acknowledges a new opportunity to come alongside other artists and offer her example. Though she calls herself "an uneasy mentor," she's struck by the fact that she's been making music for eight years now. "It doesn't take long to grow up on someone's music," she says with a laugh. "I am excited and nervous because … even in myself I've been mentored by so many – Jars of Clay, their action from afar, watching their work with Blood:Water Mission. And then Charlie and Andi [Peacock] – I hope that I'm a Charlie and an Andi in Minneapolis because I'll tell you what, they've influenced so many people, and they bring the Kingdom alive in so many cool ways."
What else might the future hold for her, Troy and their two little boys? Groves isn't sure, but she's OK with that. "I feel very positive these days. I feel very aware of good news these days. I feel very aware that God is up to something and that I get to be a part of it, and these are exciting times to be alive."
© 2006 CCM Magazine. All rights reserved. Used with permission. Click here to subscribe.


text: Microsoft Flight Simulator X just got cooler: when you strap the Vuzix VR920 headest on and look around, the camera follows your movements. The goggles show you an interactive 3D cockpit, while onscreen, onlookers see a 2D version. Vuzix (which was called Icuiti until a week or so ago) will soon launch an A/V version for $350 which connects to DVD players, phones or anything else with a composite video out. Video by Nick McGlynn [Vuzix]


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Church sends message of support, love to football squad
Pastor hopes pregame dinner outshines negative impressions of school
When the football team from Southwest Early College Campus took the field at 63rd Street and Swope Parkway Thursday night, there was a group in the stands that wanted more for the players than just a win.
A few hours before the game, the team walks together to nearby Wornall Road Baptist Church for a meal and a whole lot more.
The church serves a pregame dinner to the players in its basement, a meal that the Rev. John Mark Clifton said lets the players know that they are valued and loved.
He said that's an important message for students whose school is sometimes in the news for the wrong reasons.
"I know out there in the city, there's some people that when they hear 'Southwest,' they think bad things," Clifton said.
He told the players that when he hears the name of the school, he thinks of them.
"I don't think of bad things," he said.
The message is sinking in to the teenage football players.
"It's nice," said Hense Todd. "(It) puts a smile on your face to let you know that somebody else cares about you and loves you."
"With all the bad things that have happened, they give us a little joy. They're always looking out for us," said player Alex Moore.
This is the third year that the church has organized the pregame meal for the team and its cheerleaders.


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The Fellowship of Christian Athletes engages coaches and athletes to grow in their faith and sport.
Enter the email address associated with your account, then click Submit. We'll email you a link to a page where you can easily create a new password.
© Copyright 2020, Atlanta FCA International. All Rights Reserved. Login. Site Map.


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WASHINGTON — A gun control advocacy group backed by New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg began airing a television ad Thursday that thanks Sen. Pat Toomey for his work on background checks.
The Mayors Against Illegal Guns 30-second spot shows the Capitol building tilted with ominous clouds overhead. A narrator says, "Washington likes to argue" as voices talk over each other in the background. Then happy music swells as a smiling Toomey appears. "Sen. Pat Toomey likes to get things done," the narrator continues.
"Courage and commonsense that's Pat Toomey," the voiceover concludes. "Tell him to keep fighting for background checks."
Toomey, who was the lead Republican in a failed push for expanding background checks on firearm sales at gun shows and online, has seen a bump in his job approval since his very public effort last month. His numbers went up nine percentage points in a Franklin & Marshall College poll released this week.
Since the vote failed, Toomey has been adamant that he's moved on to work on other issues, particularly economic ones. But gun control advocates, the White House and many congressional Democrats have vowed not to give up.
Though Toomey is not up for re-election until 2016, it won't be an easy win for the Lehigh County Republican who won by only two points in a 2010 GOP wave year. It will also be a presidential campaign year, when Democrats tend to outperform in Pennsylvania.
But Toomey has made some new friends now if he wants their help. Bloomberg told The Morning Call during a brief chat at the White House Correspondents Dinner that Toomey will now always have his support after he stood up to his party for gun control.
"Americans want elected officials that have the courage and independence to stand up for common sense legislation, even when special interests oppose it – as Senator Toomey did when he co-sponsored gun safety legislation with Senator Manchin," Bloomberg said in a statement. "We need more leaders who are willing to reach across the aisle and find common ground, so that we can keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the dangerously mentally ill and reduce the gun violence that results in 33 murders every day in our country."
The ad is airing in Philadelphia and Harrisburg through May 22.


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These showcase all that's great about Indian food: They're vibrant, light, and fragrant. For a spicier patty, add a second stemmed and minced serrano chile.
- Yield
- Makes 6 servings
- 2 (8-ounce) russet potatoes
- 1 1/2 cups fresh breadcrumbs made from crustless French bread, divided
- 1/2 cup finely grated carrots
- 1/4 cup finely chopped red bell pepper
- 1/4 cup finely chopped onion
- 1/4 cup finely chopped fresh cilantro
- 2 tablespoons finely chopped peeled fresh ginger
- 1 serrano chile, stemmed, minced
- 1 teaspoon salt
- 2 large eggs
- 1/3 cup (or more) vegetable oil
- Chaat masala* (optional)
- Paprika
- *Chaat masala is an Indian spice blend available at specialty foods stores and Indian markets.
- Place potatoes in medium saucepan. Add enough water to cover by 1 inch. Bring to boil, then reduce heat to medium and cook potatoes until tender, about 20 minutes. Drain; cool.
- Peel cooled potatoes, place in medium bowl, and mash. Add 1/2 cup breadcrumbs, carrots, and next 6 ingredients. Mix lightly (do not mash). Divide mixture into 12 portions, using about 1/4 cup for each. Shape each portion into ball, then press lightly to form patty about 2 1/2 inches in diameter. Do ahead Can be made 6 hours ahead. Transfer patties to large plate, cover, and chill.
- Preheat oven to 200°F. Whisk eggs in medium bowl to blend. Place remaining 1 cup breadcrumbs on large plate. Coat patties first in egg, then in breadcrumbs, pressing to adhere. Transfer patties to clean large plate. Heat 1/3 cup oil in large skillet over medium heat. Working in 2 batches, cook patties until brown, about 5 minutes per side, adding more oil by tablespoonfuls as needed. Place patties on rimmed baking sheet. Transfer sheet to oven to keep patties warm.
- Place 2 patties on each of 6 plates. Drizzle patties with Ginger-cilantro chutney , sprinkle with chaat masala, if desired, and paprika.


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Our lives completely changed on December 31, 1996. I know that every day a parent somewhere experiences that same change. While it is impossible to reach every mother or father in the world who is forced to deal with the loss of their child, it is my prayer that this little spot on the web will become a source of hope, healing and understanding to at least some of them.
I began construction on this site in September of 1998 as a way of bringing something positive out of my own personal loss. I am almost certain that tears will fall while you read through our site, but that's all right. I invite you to browse through the links above. They have been lovingly put together for you. You'll notice that each of the areas listed above (ie. My Bryan, Support...etc) have a graphic associated with them which will appear in the same place as the "star flower pot" you see above. While in a section, you can always return to the main page of that section by clicking on it's graphic. Links that say "home" will always bring you back here. Please feel free to contact me or sign our guestbook. We like to know you were here.
We're glad you found us,
ATTENTION: Due to family circumstances - additions to this site are being made rather slowly. Please be patient with us during the next few months.
All text, design, and layout
© 1998-2002 Julie Blair Lane


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Village of Bayside responds to increase in coyote sightings
City holds seminar to give residents advice
Coyote sightings are on the rise along the Northshore, and the Village of Bayside is taking action.
Viewers from several Northshore communities emailed WISN 12 News pictures taken recently of coyotes in their neighborhoods.
Bayside resident Peggy Yee took a picture of a coyote in her back yard just before the first snowfall. She said she's been on high alert since then.
"The most I've seen is usually two walking together," Yee said. "Some of them are mangy-looking and scary, and if there are small dogs around, they are known to be attacked, and it's hard to get them to leave your yard. They are very brazen and they're used to humans now and they just lay there and look at you."
Village leaders said they see more coyotes out for mating season because spring is around the corner. They said they want residents with small pets and children to be aware of the ways to protect themselves in case they come face to face with one.
City officials have tried several ways of dealing with coyotes in the past, from spraying wolf urine to putting traps into community parks and trails. They said the best tool is education.
Officials organized a seminar on Wednesday to give residents tips on how to act if they see a coyote near them or their small pet.
Lynsey White Dasher, an urban wildlife specialist with the Humane Society of the United States, said coyotes are typically afraid of humans, but people typically don't react when they see the animals.
"So it's important to yell and wave your arms and say, 'go away, coyote,'" she said. "You can blow (a) whistle or shoot them with a water hose or squirt gun."
White Dasher said if a coyote approaches you, establish your presence instead of running.


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Percona is glad to announce the release of Percona XtraBackup 1.6.2 on 25 July, 2011 (Downloads are available here and from thePercona Software Repositories).
This release is purely composed of bug fixes and is the current stable release of Percona Xtrabackup.
All of Percona's software is open-source and free, all the details of the release and its development process can be found in the 1.6.2 milestone at Launchpad.
New Options
--version option has been added to the
xtrabackup binary for printing its version. Previously, the version was displayed only while executing the binary without arguments or performing a backup. Bug Fixed: #610614 (Alexey Kopytov).
- As exporting tables should only be used with
innodb-file-per-tableset in the server, the variable is checked by
xtrabackupwhen using the
--exportoption. It will fail before applying the archived log without producing a potentially unusable backup. Bug Fixed: #758888 (Alexey Kopytov).
Bugs Fixed
- When creating an InnoDB with its own tablespace after taking a full backup, if the log files have been flushed, taking an incremental backup based on that full one would not contain the added table. This has been corrected by explicitly creating the tablespace before applying the delta files in such cases. Bug Fixed: #766607(Alexey Kopytov).
- In some cases,
innobackupexignored the specified
xtrabackupbinary with the
--ibbackupoption. Bug Fixed: #729497 (Stewart Smith).
- Minor file descriptors leaks in error cases were fixed. Bug Fixed: #803718 (Stewart Smith).
Other Changes
- Improvements and fixes on platform-specific distribution: #785556 (Ignacio Nin)
For more information, please see the following links:
- Downloads: Binary distributions, Percona Software Repositories


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2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying
A Philadelphia couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another of their children has died.
Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing.
Philadelphia Judge Benjamin Lerner said at a hearing they violated the most important condition of their probation: to seek medical care for their remaining children.
The Schaibles have yet to be charged in the death of the 8-month-old boy last week, after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for days. Authorities are awaiting autopsy results.
Catherine Schaible's lawyer says the couple are good parents, and that they are deeply distraught over the loss of another child.
More: PHILADELPHIA: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying