I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets - <AUTHOR> https://vishnubharathi.codes/blog/learning-cpp-2018/ <comment><USER3> "To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it."

This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when moving past the "1-person" projects. Want to contribute to other projects? Chances are they all have very different build setups and configurations when it comes to building, testing, dependency management. That adds some friction even before you start taking a look at the actual code-base.

I understand that a lot of these problems can occur for languages as old as C++, but I wish the tooling was a little more opinionated and worked a little better at guiding newcomers into doing things in a nicer manner.

<comment><USER4> All C/C++ projects I have ever seen used either cmake or autoconf build system. It's pretty standard.

<comment><USER5> That's an availability bias. While cmake is common in commercial settings, I haven't seen autoconf used outside of open source. I've seen scons and meson both used as well at various companies.

Meson seems to be spreading pretty rapidly. After I was introduced to it a few years ago for work, I started using it as my default build system for C++ elsewhere and more C++ devs I know have started using it. I've seen it replace CMake and make at large companies for C++.

<comment><USER6> Why would one use menson over cmake ?

<comment><USER5> Meson is much easier to use and configure for C++, being quite obviously designed specifically with C++ builds in mind. It automagically does the right thing for setting up most C++ build environments by default with virtually no config or quirks you need to learn. It is built on top of Ninja, and generally very fast and efficient. The only real knock against it is that the documentation isn't as good as could be, and it is evolving quickly, but the fact that it often "just works" doing the obvious thing makes it less of an issue. In my experience, setting up a cmake environment has a significantly steeper learning curve and is more work.

The tradeoff is that Meson takes a fairly rigorous "one correct way" approach to how you organize your builds. It doesn't prevent you from doing anything functional but what it forces you to do is very sensible, minimizes the potential for issues in diverse environments, and reduces the degrees of freedom Meson has to sort out. A prohibition on unfettered creativity, advisable or not, in how you manage your builds has turned out to be a blessing in my experience because it codifies what are very arguably best practices in code and then makes it easy to implement them.

I'm fairly agnostic on build systems -- I've probably used a dozen -- but Meson, even in its relatively youthful state, is the best C++ build system I've used so far in terms of getting things done quickly in a maintainable way that is easy to use for average programmers.

<comment><USER7> How would you evaluate Meson as a build system for C projects? I _think_ C and C++ build process is very similar, but I only work professionally with C, so maybe there are some quirks to C++ I am not aware of.

Basically, I wonder if you would recommend Meson as a build system for a mostly C project with maybe some C++ parts and some extra external tools ran on top.

<comment><USER5> I agree with your presumption that it almost certainly _should_ work well but I haven't actually used it for a C project. Offhand, I can't think of anything that I would expect to break.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > My quest for relearning C++ started in November 2018.

That's great! I've been using it since 2013 and still haven't learned it!

<comment><USER9> What language can one say that they fully master?

I've been using Python since 2008-ish on and off for various scripting tasks and small tools, I can't say that I've "learned" it. They keep adding new stuff, some things I forgot, others I never needed.

I've been using C++ professionally since ~2006 and for similar reasons I won't say that I master it either. Metaprogramming is a clear weak point for me, but OTOH I find the whole exercise pointless and unpleasant. Unless one wants to be on the standards body, it's not really worth trying to learn C++ (or any other language) at 100% IMO.

<comment><USER10> It's worth pointing out one measure of complexity: the Stroustrup book (4th ed) is 1376 pages, and that was 2013. Since then there's been how many layers more on top?

As a contrast, the description of Common Lisp syntax fits on a sticky note, but the library and semantics spec take about the same number of pages to describe a similar amount of functionality.

The two extremes represent different locations on the syntax-vs-library complexity tradeoff continuum.

<comment><USER11> > _The two extremes represent different locations on the syntax-vs-library > complexity tradeoff continuum._

I'd say it's a syntax x language semantics x libraries triangle. Common Lisp may have trivial syntax, but there are some hidden gems of complexity in the language semantics level. To this day I don't _really_ understand eval-when, and I've been using Common Lisp for the past 9 years.

<comment><USER10> Yeah that sounds about right. It's a 3 space.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I've learned 15+ years ago, and I stopped paying attention around ~2010, which is just before significant changes were made. Even though I read up on some features and concepts from C++11 and C++14, I feel so disconnected from what's going on as if what I learned was a completely different language.

Can anyone recommend any source for someone with lots of pre-C++11 experience to get up to speed with current capabilities, and the current community?

EDIT: Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

EDIT2: I skimmed Anthony Calandra's list, and most of the new features seem indeed just cute, but not fundamental changes. Still, I want to reiterate the worry I expressed downthread: how much did the underlying semantics, the idioms, and the general way of thinking change?

<comment><USER12> I've been in the same boat--relearning C++ after using C++98(!) for a long time. My first go-to book was _A Tour of C++_ , 2e by Stroustrup. Also _Effective Modern C++_ by Scott Meyers (of _Effective C++_ fame).

Other books I've been reading: _C++ 17 The Complete Guide_ by Josuttis _C++ 17 in Detail_ by Filipek

Lots of good blogs out there. Also the CPP Podcast. [http://cppcast.com/](http://cppcast.com/)

There are also a lot of great blogs covering new features. Also

<comment><USER13> More of a meta-comment, but the underscores you used to presumably get markdown italics should actually be asterisks on HN. Normally it doesn't make a readability difference but trying to parse the book names from your post was a tad mentally painful. Took me a little while to realize the asterisk v. underscore thing so I thought I'd pass it on.

Note: I do wish HN would adopt standard markdown

<comment><USER12> Oops. Sorry. I had completely forgotten HN markdown. I usually use the underscores around book titles with cleartext in mind. I'll remember asterisk in the future.

<comment><USER11> > _I 'll remember asterisk in the future._

Aaand you've just learned all the formatting HN has :). That, and URLs automatically turn into clickable everywhere except the body of a self- submission (i.e. submitting a text instead of a link). Any other formatting here is just convention.

<comment><USER14> _Thank you!_

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I use it every day at work and there are days where I leave thinking its the best language on the planet and others where it makes me throw my laptop through a wall.

Wouldn't have it any other way haha

</comment><comment><USER16> _like let me read the source code of a open source software today_

To me, this is the most powerful reason to learn C and C++. If you know these languages, you can read the codebases of all the things you use and contribute to them (every browser in existence, every Unix in existence, most user space tools, many GUI tools, many low-level libraries that mobile apps use).

Even if everybody stops writing C/C++ today, you'll still be using software written in C/C++ for decades.

And of course, that's a joke -- there's still at least 10x more C/C++ being written every day in the world than any other language that compiles to native code (Rust, Go, etc.)

</comment><comment><USER17> He has no regrets, but does have a basic_regret<char, regret_traits<charT>, allocator<charT>>

Welcome! As someone who's been using C++ pretty much continuously for two decades, I think there has never been a better time to learn it. We finally have compiler competition that has resulted in robust support for the language's great features.

</comment><comment><USER18> Well, after learning C++ there wouldn't be any regrets left to have.

</comment><comment><USER19> > Within C++ is a smaller, simpler, safer language struggling to get out." - > Bjarne Stroustrup

Ah, yes. I think they called it "C".

<comment><USER20> C compatibility was the very reason for which C++ is bigger, more complicated and less safe than a similar language not compatible with C could be.

<comment><USER21> Really? C++ accidentally has a Turing complete templating layer. I suppose one could point to Common Lisp but if you think that is simple....

<comment><USER11> Well, Common Lisp _is_ simple. Except maybe the Metaobject Protocol (which ultimately didn't make it into standard, but it sort of still is). And except eval-when. Eval-when is magic.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Similar experience here ... it took no time to learn c++ because it's not the pre C11 language.

You can make whole applications without touching memory management with RAII patterns; and C++ APIs are usually not the Java OOP monstrosities everyone hates.

Operator overloading is just so damn useful . You can make very elegant APIs in C++ as a result.

</comment><comment><USER23> I also used 2018 to learn and get proficient in C++.

Honestly, I don't really like it. The only real reason for that is that using smart pointers is verbose, but I don't want to do manual memory management where it's possible to instead rely on RAII.

Ironically enough, though, C++ is probably the second of two languages I'd consider my "go to."

<comment><USER24> You dont go from beginner to proficient in any language in 1 year, much less C++.

<comment><USER23> Well, I guess "proficient" in relation to someone who had started with the language 1 year ago. There is definitely still a lot left to learn. I don't intend to claim mastery, though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I am learning Rust currently and it's fascinating. The concepts are very different and forces me to thing differently. I hope that Rust soon supports things like kernel programming, asynchronous networking, GUI programming etc. that C++ is so good at.

<comment><USER26> Rust already supports kernel programming, that is what Redox is. You can do async networking today on stable with tokio and futures or on nightly with futures-await and prototype async/await syntax. You can do GUI programming with gtk-rs.

Its pretty unlikely anyone is going to take on the monumental project of "write a software GUI kitchen sink suite like Qt, but in Rust" any time soon. Not because you can't, but because such projects are by their nature at minimum millions of LOCs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> > started learning C++ in November 2018

> blog post in January 2019

> "learnt" in past tense

</comment><comment><USER28> Many here talk about the complexity of C++. I concede it's a huge language, and not a beautiful one. However, I wouldn't call it that difficult. Being a systems language, once you understand (roughly, sans optimization finesse) how the machine code is generated it starts making a lot of sense. Maybe C++ is even educational because so many nuts and bolts are showing. Personally I'd recommend some systems programming to everyone, but if thats not on your radar at all, maybe don't bother. C is also a fine choice.

<comment><USER29> Many programming languages try to have perfect symmetry and because of that, fail to be useful in the real world. C++ has constructs such as template specialization that allow symmetry breaking. Symmetry breaking is what makes nature beautiful and therefore I would argue C++ IS a beautiful language. C++ is complex because the world is complex. Just as a mountain is shaped by time and the elements, C++ is also shaped by decades of experience and change.

This is what also makes Bjarne one of the greatest language designers. Where most designers would have gone off making new languages, Bjarne has been polishing the C++ stone the whole time.

<comment><USER30> The complexity of the world arises from simplicity. All complex things in the universe in the end are just atoms.

Is it better to build a complex programming language that handles real world complexity?

Or is it better to build a simple programming language where complexity is an emergent property than in turn use that to handle real world complexity.

One issue of building a complex programming language is that if you build the language to handle one type of complexity, it becomes hard mutate or shift that programming language to handle a different type of complexity. This is essentially the issue with whats happening with the newer versions of C++.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> "C++ is hanging around for a long time ( 34 years till date according to Wikipedia). It is powering some of the world's oldest and stable piece of software written over all these years."

Autodesk AutoCAD (36+ years old) CAD software is one of those piece of software that is still widely used today and very likely used to design physical products many people use today from your toothbrush, office chairs, towering skyscraper buildings to parts of a jet plane you've flown in from your last vacation.

</comment><comment><USER32> > "I have to pay: First and main concern being that the standard study > materials for reading about C++ are not free."

I don't think this is more than a minor issue. If you can't afford it, the book is very easy to obtain online for free, either through piracy or a paid / free trial Safari Books Online subscription. If you felt so inclined, you could pay for the book after making money with the C++ it taught you.

<comment><USER33> The last draft is always available for free from. The standard committee website.

The document is definitely not a good way to learn the language.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I'll take this opportunity to plug Bo Qian's C++ videos on youtube if anybody is interested in learning modern C++. They are to the point, code-focused, don't waste time on basic syntax, and cover a lot of ground (lvalues and rvalues, move semantics, inheritance types, etc.). Only issue is they are only current to C++11.

</comment><comment><USER29> I like that the author mentions the STL explicitly. The STL is one of the most beautiful libraries ever written. There are few language libraries that are as clear and well designed as the STL. Alex Stepanov is completely underrated outside the C++ community.

<comment><USER35> Some wouldn't agree: [http://wiki.c2.com/?StlSucks](http://wiki.c2.com/?StlSucks)

Personally, I find Scala standard library much easier to work with and at the same time much more flexible and powerful.

<comment><USER36> That is pre-C++11 and woefully out of date. To pick out the first two "defects" listed: std::auto_ptr was deprecated in C++11 and removed in C++17, and std::unordered_map was introduced in C++11.

<comment><USER37> It's kind of frustrating how much vocal (often outraged!) C++ criticism comes from people who haven't seriously used the language in years, if ever. It's just noise.

Like a few days ago I saw a bunch of complaints about how C++14 and beyond were adding so much stuff and it's just bloat or overcomplication. No! Using that stuff makes my life so much easier, whereas C++98 was indeed a miserable nightmare.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Perhaps this is an appopriate place to ask:

What is the best C++ IDE on the Mac?

In particular, fully project-aware autocomplete is a baseline feature. Does emacs or Vim offer an autocomplete plugin that matches the power of IntelliJ, or even Xcode?

Is CLion worth the money? Other paid alternatives?

<comment><USER39> If you're comfortable with emacs, irony + rtags does pretty much all the IDE- type things I need it to. You can autoconfigure rtags based on your build system (supports basically all of them). you get variable type hints, function arg hints, contextual autocomplete (including template stuff), jump to definition, find references, you can fuzzy find and jump to methods/identifiers/symbols across your project, compiler warnings highlighted inline, it's a pretty good setup. I use the doom-emacs distribution which has it all configured and ready to go, im sure spacemacs also has a good setup

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> One can't just learn C++ in one year, imho.

<comment><USER41> I've been coding heavily in C++ for now over 2 decades, and when I interview someone I typically can get a pretty decent picture of within a general 3 - <USER2> year range of how long they've been coding based on the various details they gave when answering the questions about the language. And yes, of course someone could have 10 years experience, or the same experience for 10 years and never grow, but in general I found I am pretty spot on.

So I agree, 1 year doesn't even begin to cut it. You need more than book knowledge, you need the experience of watching your masterpiece crumble under its own weight (sometimes several times) or have the joy of hunting some obscure bug because you failed to recognize the trap you had set for yourself.

I certainly wouldn't want to scare anyone off from C++, because personally I find the empowerment is worth the pain. It just takes time to learn what to avoid.

<comment><USER42> >you need the experience of watching your masterpiece crumble under its own weight (sometimes several times) or have the joy of hunting some obscure bug because you failed to recognize the trap you had set for yourself.

Very good point, but that's by no means unique to C++. Maybe that level of experience ;) in a related language, plus a good working knowledge of C++ would be acceptable?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> It's too bad he made no mention of the concept of undefined behavior in C++. When coming from any language with consistent semantics, UB is a nasty surprise that makes you seriously question how correct your code is.

</comment><comment><USER44> I'm in the exact same boat as you. I've been mostly writing JavaScript for the past 2-3 (with some Go, and more recently Flutter).

I've started to learn some C++ a few days ago, mostly go get into lower level code and into game development (Unreal), and I've found it to be pretty great!

I've been going through A Tour Of C++ and it's a great primer on the whole language. I also read the Learn X In Y Minutes on C++ to get a feel of it before diving in.

What are some high quality, small C++ projects I could play around with and read the source code? I'd like to explore it in more practical use next.

</comment><comment><USER45> I studied C++ during university days and after that I never got a chance to learn it seriously due to my job commitments as a web developer. I did work on C# but not C++ professionally. I always admired my friends who could write good C or C++ code.

So many times I wish to learn it seriously but these new editors for web development and Python made me lazy enough that I wish to have some environment and way to write and compile C programs easily.

I heard modern C++ is way better than what it was in early 2000. I want to give it a try, hopefully, I will be able to learn and implement Pointers properly.

<comment><USER46> I have spent my whole career writing C or C++. While it is true that I write code at a different layer of the stack than is common for languages like C#, I wouldn't say it is particularly admirable. There are intermittent cool things that I get to write in C (data structures, protocol stacks, etc.), but for the most part it is just plumbing. There are lots of cool things that people get to implement higher up the stack too.

<comment><USER45> Will you recommend some source? I mostly have a Web Developer and Python background

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> > I feel that [a programming language is] just a tool to instruct a machine to > do something.

I can't stress enough how true this is.

<comment><USER48> Machine code is just a tool to instruct a machine how to do something. Programming languages are for human-to-compiler _and_ human-to-human communications.

<comment><USER49> While you are right, i see a lot of enginners making bad decisions for the right tools to use for a giving problem, based on psychology and emotional reasoning.

Things might even work in the end, but you can end with a weak project that wont scale or will crumble when faced with the destructive nature of time.

I know its a controversial topic, but i think a little bit of zen-budhism training of the mind can make wonders in making those sort of decisions, where the unbalanced parts of our psychology will eventually show up and cripple what could be a great thing.

I am an IT enginner, but i practice a lot of self-mind vigilance to understand my decision making process, to avoid making the most confortable decisions and going for the write answer, no matter how painful and expensive it may sound.

To give an example of this, i remember for instance CouchDB vs. MongoDB, where the concepts were layout in CouchDB, but it was done in Erlang, so as soon someone did almost the same thing in a language that suits a database development well like C++, the tool sky rocket and reach all of its potential.

The language i see this happening the most for instance is Python. Where you have great concepts and great enginners but where a lot of them shouldn't be using Python for that particular goaç. Again here i can use Mercurial as an example of a great tool in a bad fitting language (for the given tool, as Python might be a great fit for other use cases).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> Why you think anybody regret learning c++?

</comment><comment><USER51> One does not just "learn" C++.

</comment><comment><USER52> Hi, I guess I'm a little out of the loop... Why would someone generally have regrets? What language "should" be learned in 2018 instead of something like C++ (which it sounds like is becoming obsolete)

</comment><comment><USER53> > Because you just can't start reading the source code of a code base from top > to bottom.

This is obviously not what one should do. Read the test cases first is what I do. It makes for much quicker iteration.

</comment><comment><USER54> I learned it this year, with cmake. Then i moved onto go.

I tried rust, but they keep changing it and breaking modules i need to use!

<comment><USER55> Rust in stable releases hasn't made any serious breaking changes since 1.0 in 2015. There were tiny breakages in edge cases caused by more or less bug fixes, in line from breakages you might get when upgrading GCC to a newer version.

If you find your dependencies are breaking:

• Keep a lockfile (Cargo.lock) committed in your project, so that your deps won't suddenly get updated to some newer, potentially buggy/incompatible version.

• If you're updating dependencies, also update the compiler. It's possible that new versions of dependencies require latest version of compiler.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> I wonder what you'd think about Rust.

</comment><comment><USER57> There's plenty of years left to get to hate it (I learned C++ in 1998 and have kept relatively up to date)

</comment><comment><USER58> C++ is also the language to know if you're going to be writing EOS smart contracts.

</comment><comment><USER59> great article, I learned a lot from it:

1\. Current setup and where to go learning (the books) 2\. It also had nightmares in colleague with C++, but yes, C++11 fixed a lot of it. 3\. Nice links to the other tooling.

So, author, thank you for your post!

</comment><comment><USER60> what about the old and tested makefile with autotools? I still think they got the job done pretty well and I'm using them.

</comment><comment><USER61> What's there to regret? For purely edification purposes, there isn't a better OOP language ( though it encompasses other paradigms as well and isn't purely OOP ) since it doesn't have training wheels. You could hurt yourself with it but it certainly allows you to explore and learn.

Also, you could "learn" it in a year, but it takes you a lifetime to master it.

<comment><USER62> C++ is not very canonical OOP. And by that I don't just mean it's multi paradigm nature, but it's realization of OOP features. Using C++ teaches you mostly about using C++ and doesn't really transfer across the paradigm.

<comment><USER63> I think that statement would have to be classified as inaccurate. using C++ teaches you mostly about general purpose programming and it's pretty easy to go from C++ to python to Java to bash, etc.

<comment><USER64> Nonsense. C++'s template system behaves unlike any other language (things like SFINAE and the techniques that use it do not transfer), C++-style RAII is relatively unusual, I don't think any other language requires the programmer to think about virtual versus non-virtual inheritance, the C-derived sequence point rules are obscure and much looser than most languages' evaluation rules, the exception-safety rules are unique to C++, most languages don't make you track the minutiae of a dozen different integer types with inconsistent promotion rules, textual macros are abominable, C++ has more obscure control flow constructs than most languages... meanwhile the language has no standard support for true sum types, garbage collection, unit testing, poor library tooling, a limited type system... which means you don't learn the general- purpose techniques that rely on these things.

If all you know is C++ you will be able to produce a limited amount of working code in a handful of C++-like languages, sure - but even in Python or Java or Bash you'll produce very unidiomatic code if you write in C++ style. If you tried to work in e.g. Smalltalk or Erlang or even OCaml you'd really struggle. It is not a good way to learn general-purpose programming, because the language is hugely complicated and most of the complications are C++-specific.

<comment><USER63> well, that's just like, your opinion, man ( big lebowski reference for those too young to know ). The reason I disagree with you is because I have never met a C++ programmer who only knew C++ and couldn't easily do work in some other language, but of course plenty of people know other languages and can't do C++. Yes, SFINAE and RAII - you can go for many years of working in C++ without writing much code using either one of those.

<comment><USER65> That is more like an example of Blub paradox in action: You can write in everything as if it were C, you can't write C as if it were everything else.

Except that it makes a point that is subtly different from the one pg originally raised in discussing Blub paradox: If you only care about shipping something, you aren't inclined to think about abstraction as a goal state, and that's what these other languages are doing: handling things with a goal of adding abstraction that for a C++ user is out of reach or requires considerable knowledge of the C++ standard. Users of Python or JS don't know what a pointer is, and that's intended by design, because for most applications it is an implementation detail and automating it away is desirable.

When most software was written in assembler, data structures more complex than an array were often avoided, because it was difficult to code and debug them. And if you were an assembly coder of that era, you might well say that you didn't see the point of structured programming, or that you could easily get the same effect in fewer bytes. And to some degree, you'd be right, because you would just design a smaller scope of application that makes those techniques viable.

Trying to write something resembling modern C++ style in x86 assembly, in contrast, would be as fruitless as a JS coder trying to use C++ like JS, since your abstractions wouldn't be there. You'd have to learn the thought process of a lower level coder and apply those strategies instead of the ones you are comfortable with.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> >Cmd+F

>"Rust"

>3 results

T-h-r-e-e? How is this even possible?

</comment><comment><USER67> Unless your job demanded it I can't think of a compelling reason for a Node guy to learn C++ as their go to choice of OO language. Why not Java? Even Python is a good gateway to OO for folks coming straight form Node background.

<comment><USER68> Someone has to actually do all the native programming that powers scripting languages and VMs.

<comment><USER69> I think some people forget that it's not Javascript all the way down. Wish I could click the up arrow twice.</comment></comment></comment>


Andrews and Arnold is xkcd 806-compliant (2010) - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrews_%26_Arnold <comment><USER2> Not that you'd ever need to.

Their support is excellent. Email, IRC, usenet, SMS. In fact, I bet RevK (company MD) is on their IRC channel right now.

Added bonuses: native IPv6, no CGNAT, no traffic shaping, anti-censor stance, black-box canary. You can even send them GPG-encrypted email.

Disclaimer: very satisfied customer.

<comment><USER3> As a dissenting voice I never found A&A to be half as good as they presented themselves to be. I was a customer for just over two years.

I had poor, lossy line performance for most of my time with that ISP, with no resolution to any of the support tickets I opened. No interest from any of their staff in investigating. Eventually I had to contact BT Openreach on my own initiative, not an easy process for a retail customer, and arrange engineer visits to correct.

Yet the MD boasted on his blog of how he bullied BT into fixing his parents' broadband over Christmas one year. Nice if you're in the family.

When I migrated to another ISP ( using the correct migration process ), A&A put a broadband cessation order on my line and killed Internet access a week later.

My current ISP doesn't require 'shibboleth' code-words. They listen to the enquiry and respond appropriately.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I've been keeping a running tally of the real-world things invented via XKCD comics, I'll add this one. [http://euri.ca/2013/xkcd-is-the-new-donald- duck/](http://euri.ca/2013/xkcd-is-the-new-donald-duck/)

<comment><USER5> Curious about the amazon random bit that was mentioned. I read the author's tumblr page but didn't see the results of the bot.

<comment><USER6> He has been posting some of the monthly shipments in his blog: [http://randomshopper.tumblr.com/](http://randomshopper.tumblr.com/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> After working for a company similar to comcast, I wish there was a password to get to tier 2 or the NOC. "Yeah I'm at your hub site, it looks like one of the cards in the CMTS I'm on has a faulty uplink cable" "Sir can I get your account number again?" "kill me"

[http://i.imgur.com/UANtI.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/UANtI.jpg)

<comment><USER8> The one that blows my mind is when Comcast installers have to call in to what seems like the normal help desk.

<comment><USER7> We had a FIOS installer call and be on hold for two hours just to get our fiber setup. He just sat on the carpet and started to snooze.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Worth every penny. I find it staggering that so many people make cost the biggest factor in their choice of ISP. The last two years of being an Andrews and Arnold customer have been my happiest with an ISP.

<comment><USER10> I wish there was something like this in Spain. Huge opportunity for someone who knows what they are doing in that area I would say.

<comment><USER11> People just won't pay for it. I pay £25/mo for Zen (A&A offer a similar plan for the same price), but TalkTalk and Virgin are a third of the price. For a third of the service, but SHEER CHEAPNESS is actually a marketing point.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Based on every interaction i've had with A&A, I can't think that this is needed. Always been a pleasure, and I'm not even a customer.

</comment><comment><USER13> So is Indiana University.

They use Shibboleth as an intermediary authenticator across their data servers. Saying something regarding Shibboleth means you get someone who knows 4 languages (at least). And usually, when that layer fails, you NEED someone from the data center.

Last time that happened, the rack was on fire...

[https://kb.iu.edu/d/bdag](https://kb.iu.edu/d/bdag) [http://shibboleth.net/about/index.html](http://shibboleth.net/about/index.html)

</comment><comment><USER14> This is the problem with treating every customer similarly. Frankly, considering the user data and customer segmentation that a company like Comcast (or other providers) should have, you'd think that it would actually be a significant cost savings for them to be able to tag customers as "tech- savvy" or not. This way when tech-savvy customers call, you don't waste their time (increase chance for churn) or the Tier 1 CS rep's time (hard hourly wage cost).

<comment><USER15> Might work if there's a way to filter out the tech-savvy posers from the people that are actually tech-savvy. More charitably there's a wide range of tech to be savvy in. I've had a customer tell me they were a expert in last- mile access systems because they "are a expert WinSock programmer".

People that think they are tech-savvy but actually aren't tend to do things that are worse than the normal user and have a attitude about it. You can't afford to waste your Tier 2 rep's time or burnout points on them.

On the business side we do tag customers as tech-savvy but it's based a bit on trick questions. E.g. When assigning static IPs do they understand CIDR or do they insist on talking in terms of Class A/B/C subnets? Do they throw a fit about /31 subnets not being valid? Do they insist that a /32 subnet mask on their PPPoE connection is invalid and that the gateway can't be outside the subnet?

There's nothing worse than a IT consultant that presumes to know more than the ISP about running a network (they almost never do).

To a degree we use how much they pay for their connection as a proxy for knowledge. It seems like customers that optionally pay for higher end service or business products have a understanding of the business value of the connection and are pretty reasonable about their expectations.

Example: customer with a $3k Dedicated IP+BGP link that's called in for a outage and the call went "oh, outage? how long? ok, call me if you think it will take longer than that". Customer with a $60 DSL calls in yelling and screaming about losing thousands of dollars in sales and such. We're like, really? Thousands of dollars a minute and you didn't see business value in a backup link, redundancy, or a SLA?

When I have a problem with my cable connection at home I focus on helping them get through their script as quickly as possible to reach the escalation or dispatch stage. If this means I'm dragging out a Windows 7 laptop because that's the fast path through their script, so be it.

<comment><USER11> > Might work if there's a way to filter out the tech-savvy posers from the > people that are actually tech-savvy. More charitably there's a wide range of > tech to be savvy in. I've had a customer tell me they were a expert in last- > mile access systems because they "are a expert WinSock programmer".

Actual tech support call: "Now, before we start, I've got four Microsoft degrees." That to someone with an _actual_ degree.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> See also: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth)

</comment><comment><USER16> Is xkcd becoming a RFC/ISO replacement for no-nonsense protocols and compliance standards?? If so, I welcome it.

</comment><comment><USER11> I'm with Zen, but if I wasn't I'd be with A&A. They are the only two ISPs in the UK worth spit.

</comment><comment><USER17> They offer a great service but you really do have to pay for it.</comment>


Coronavirus might be the biggest trend in Google search history - <AUTHOR> https://www.fastcompany.com/90477301/what-are-americans-googling-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak-celebrities-and-disney-world <comment><USER2> You can also deduct the words "in Google search"</comment>


New Twitter Redesign - <AUTHOR> https://fly.twitter.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> The first thing I noticed is that they're moving the content pane to the right, and moving stats/metadata to the left column.

I remember when Twitter first had the metadata pane on the right. It was unusual, and a lot of sites follow suit -- especially with Twitter Bootstrap, which defaults (in their templates) to content-on-the-left.

I wonder why Twitter moved content to the right -- which seems more traditional.</comment>


New CEO of Yahoo Marissa Mayer is pregnant - <AUTHOR> http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/16/mayer-yahoo-ceo-pregnant/

<comment><USER2> I've never seen the tech version of celebrity gossip before. I hope this doesn't become a thing.

<comment><USER3> Normally tech people are men and not attractive... (gross stereotype)

<comment><USER4> I don't know.. if Dave Winer became pregnant, I think it'd make the HN front page.

<comment><USER5> Hopefully without any visuals.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _"My maternity leave will be a few weeks long and I'll work throughout it."_

Showing her tenacity and super strength there! My wife was wiped out for months :-)

<comment><USER3> Has she had a kid before? She may be underestimating the toll on her life.

edit: "that her _first_ child is due October 7"

<comment><USER6> Typical engineer approach. "Sure, we can squeeze that project out in few weeks, no problem". Always over opportunistic. Just wait till she get hit with postpartum depression...

<comment><USER7> On the other hand, if she has adequate resources, depression can largely be addressed. Modern medicine has understood for example, that paxil does NOT go through the mammaries, so is safe for breastfeeding (not comfortable with that, but then again, I'm not in that situation).

Also proper nutirition and support structure can largely remove the stress that exacerbates pre-natal and post-partum depression.

With her wealth, she would likely be able to "tough it out" by throwing a bit of her money at some of the likely problems. She would likely have a doula, midwife and doctor, not to mention a night-nurse, etc.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Peter Thiel-backed startup Luminar goes public via $3.4B SPAC - <AUTHOR> https://www.themiddlemarket.com/articles/peter-thiel-backed-startup-luminar-goes-public-in-3-4-billion-merger <comment><AUTHOR> Matt Levine on SPACs: [https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-27/spacs-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-27/spacs- aren-t-cheaper-than-ipos-yet?sref=E8WUw9Ax)

I don't agree with the entirety of his argument, but it's definitely... unusual to see SPACs get so much attention all of a sudden. Also SPACs of this size are few and far between.

As I've noted elsewhere, SPAC transactions do have some benefits relative to IPOs such as private bookbuilding (vs investor roadshow), faster speed, comps are defined by seller meaning valuation is not dependent on equity analysts' views (instead the discussion is principal-to-principal)... So it's a trade- off. Still doesn't explain why suddenly they are all the rage. My hypothesis is that investors are gradually becoming more comfortable with its idiosyncrasies and as such the acronym is no longer a four-letter word</comment>


Skype Drive by Download - <AUTHOR> http://knaik94.github.io/netsec/2016/04/22/Skype.html <comment><USER2> Skype likely uses the standard Windows components for its embedded browser which means Internet Explorer. Apps that embed browsers is a good reason to always ensure that Windows is fully up to date and you're not using an outdated version of Windows like XP or Vista which can't run an updated copy of IE11 (the current release). It's similar to the issue on older versions of Android that used the outdated browser component of the host operating system within apps... which was nearly always out of date and insecure on US carrier- branded handsets.

</comment><comment><USER3> I had to add 0.0.0.0 fpdownload2.macromedia.com to my HOSTS file because Skype kept wanting to install Flash Player.</comment>


Few-Shot Video-to-Video Synthesis - <AUTHOR> https://nvlabs.github.io/few-shot-vid2vid/ <comment><USER2> If someone wants a business idea take this tech and use it to offer a service to fix up old videos. At least for a few years (10-20) there should some market. I recently paid of have some family vhs tapes converted to .avi files. Those vhs tapes are originally conversions of 8mm film. This is what most of the video looks like

[https://i.stack.imgur.com/tqPDO.gif](https://i.stack.imgur.com/tqPDO.gif)

Actually that's probably better than average. Enough to bring back memories but pretty awful and hard to look at more than a few moments especially from the flicker.

Seems like a perfect job for computational video processing

<comment><USER3> The flicker would be a challenge but you can use something like DeOldify [1] or super resolution [2] on the frame sequence to improve the colour and resolution... although you may get some weird artifacts between frames using image models rather than models built for video.

Generally video models are quite far behind image models because they're so much higher dimensional (much more computationally expensive and expensive to annotate) but I'm sure it's a matter of time before someone releases a DeOldify type model for video (if one doesn't exist already).

[1] [https://github.com/jantic/DeOldify](https://github.com/jantic/DeOldify) [2] [https://github.com/idealo/image-super- resolution](https://github.com/idealo/image-super-resolution)

<comment><USER4> For super resolution of video, the best thing I've come across is _TecoGAN_ which uses adjacent frames for extra information, creating a consistent flow between frames.

[https://github.com/thunil/TecoGAN](https://github.com/thunil/TecoGAN)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Deepfakes were just the very thinnest end of the wedge. We're only a few years away from video not being a reliable proof of anything at all.

<comment><USER6> I wonder how this affects the gaming industry.

<comment><USER7> I hope it helps bring down world-building costs. Currently a lot of projects are impossible to indie developpers simply because of the amount of manual labour involved in modeling and texturing.

<comment><USER8> One of the effects of deepfakes is that it makes the inherent value of simulating reality to the utmost detail vanish over time. Our whole mass entertainment industry is built by worshipping the quality of simulation (for example, those flashy VFX effects, realistic landscapes, and Lapunzel's long hair.) Right now, those details are achieved by hundreds of animators, motion capture actors, and technicians, and by having huge render/simulation farms. When virtual realism becomes easily replicable (by regurgitating previous data through a deep learning pipeline), the old values of simulating reality will soon vanish over time, and therefore the indie artists would be able to compete in a fairer level than the entertainment monoliths.

However, one of the problems of deep learning is that you need to have a good dataset first, but how are you going to build one? Well, the big game companies wouldn't reveal their models and textures that easily. For indie artists to utilize this technology, there needs to be a centralized community project built around gathering and preprocessing data, rather than waiting for someone like Adobe or Autodesk do it.

<comment><USER7> Good points. Same holds for any other industry where data is important. Data is power, because it's legal to thwart competition by not sharing data. It's plain to see how without regulation this leads to uncooperative data behemoths.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> "The code is ready for release, but we're still waiting for lawyers to resolve some legal issues. Once it's approved we can release it." \-- issue #1

Kudos to NVIDIA Corp. for the planned release of this code. It seems to have a lot of commercial potential. Maybe they see it increasing demand for their hardware.

<comment><USER10> Actually I suspect it's more because of the push in the research community for improved reproducibility.

<comment><USER11> What are you basing that on? Having source tied to a paper is very common in computer graphics and has been for a long time.

<comment><USER12> Really? I'm doing a Ph.D. in sci-vis and my experience has been that people don't release code. One time I emailed a group asking if they were going to open source their code (and asking questions about some parameters that were unexplained in their paper) and a week later they responded by telling me to go the tutorial page on pytorch (seriously.... just ghost me if you're going to pull that kind of crap). It seems to me that a lot of groups keep code as a "secret sauce" per-say. Personally I feel that's anti-scientific, reproducibility is a fundamental element to doing science.

<comment><USER13> Big and famous groups/companies usually do release their code nowadays.

I'm automatically suspicious when someone doesn't, even though I guess most of the time it's nothing nefarious. It's just extra work and effort to bring the code into presentable shape and that effort could be spent on the next paper. Once the paper is published, the material benefits have been reaped, publication count incremented. Of course this is a short-sighted view, because in the long term not only the paper counts matter, but also one's general reputation within the community.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I'd like to see these videos in higher resolution. I have to squint to resolve any detail here.

<comment><USER15> I imagine this would be much less convincing in higher resolution.

<comment><USER16> The Paper includes some higher resolution examples which are quite convincing

<comment><USER15> The paper is a PDF file, is there another video component I'm missing?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> It seems to do motion transfer alright but the legs in the dancing video get warped instead of moving so there's some frames where they have triangle legs vanishing at the knee. [https://youtu.be/8AZBuyEuDqc?t=34](https://youtu.be/8AZBuyEuDqc?t=34)

Maybe if you scale up the training data the model is going to learn some better warping, but I think to really get better photorealism there has to be a 3D component, some kind of distance/movement estimation like in [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1704.07804.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1704.07804.pdf) and a shape inference/transfer step.

</comment><comment><USER18> Why are researchers pushing deepfake?

<comment><USER19> They're not pushing deepfakes, they're pushing video-to-video synthesis. Deepfakes is one of the many things you can do with it, and not nearly the worst or most interesting (despite the media attention it got).

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> In five years they will have adversarial networks produce hyperrealistic videos of anything.

Can't wait to see FOX News anchors deepfaked to have the exact opposite views.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you constructively criticize your employees? - <AUTHOR> Hello HN,
I started a small one man company with time as I gained more customers I got another person to help me with the programming.
But since then I find myself doing more work trying to fix his code and trying to get him to work in a way that doesn't upset our workflows.
Shamefully on my part, I get really angry and I want to scream at the poor guy but I don't want to make him feel bad. When I get angry I end up taking a few mins off my work to calmn down and then get back to work and try to help him. Or I end up doing his work for him.
How do you guys deal with situations like this, how do you help people get better and make them better programmers without making them feel bad? What do you do when you are angry about the quality of work of someone?
I am honestly a bit scared I get angry, since this is me managing just one person, I have more projects I want to work on so I will need to get more people in, and I don't want to be the sort of person that screams and terrifies people, but instead someone who helps build people. <comment><USER2> Some reframing might help.

0\. Constructive criticism is only constructive if the person asks for it. When given voluntarily, it's just criticism.

1\. Your coworker instead of your employee.

2\. The work instead of his work.

3\. My workflows instead of our workflows...by which I mean that your workflows may need to change to become our workflows because our workflows needs to be more than just how you do it.

4\. People learn over time.

5\. Focus on what the person knows not what they don't know.

6\. Managing people means getting the hell out of their way. It doesn't mean telling them how to do each little piece of their job. It doesn't mean jumping in and berating them over every little mistake that has not yet been refactored.

7\. People often yell and scream as a response to stress. Add sufficient staff so that work is not always in a crisis. This means spending more money and maybe that means getting better paying jobs which is what an owner ought to be doing.

Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER3> 1) Add a code review step to your workflow.

2) Institute a weekly 1-1 meeting. This meeting is about what's going well and what's not going well in the business, in your collaboration, and in your interpersonal relationship. From both sides.

Do this every week at a set time. Frame it as a check-in. Listen to what he has to say about what's going on, and also bring up anything that's causing you problems. Frame your concerns not by stating "your work isn't good enough" or "you need to follow this process in this way".

Instead mention that a deadline slipped because you didn't realize something had been completed. Explain that the reason you ask him to use process XYZ is so that you'll know what is and isn't ready to ship. Then ask him how you can (together) avoid that problem in he future.

Basically, you're pointing out (objectively, without blame or attack) a problem that impacted the business, demonstrating how it's linked to the behavior you want him to change, and asking him for a solution within certain parameters (which makes him invested in the solution because it's his idea).

3) if he's unwilling to engage in fixing problems that impact the business, or if his work quality doesn't improve after a couple months of code review (and code review should go both ways so a) he can see how you do things and make suggestions of his own and b) it feels less hierarchical) -- well, you're the boss. Fire him and find someone you can work with better.

</comment><comment><USER4> Make sure your acceptance criteria for the deliverables and definitions of done for each stage in your workflow are explicit.

In future design your hiring test filter out candidates who don't understand the bars for quality that you require.

If you want staff which are "switched on" and learn things like the above through observation you may need to pay more to hire better quality staff.</comment>


YC Emails Out - <AUTHOR> Rejection emails anyways <comment><USER2> Just got mine, quite disappointed, I thought I had a decent chance. Keen to hear the stats on applicants and interviews given.

</comment><comment><USER3> I got mine too. Hehe. I applied for both the core and the fellowship programs. Does it mean I was rejected by both? I just got one email.

<comment><USER4> YC has already confirmed in another thread that the rejection apply to both, sorry

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Just got mine aswell! haha. No worries though this does not dictate our success. :) Best luck on your business.

</comment><comment><USER6> We got our rejection now. We were certain of an invite for interview but then such is life . Keep Hustling Guys

<comment><USER7> Jw how much monthly revenue did you have?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Reject too, it is really sad :(

Be called for the interview would be fun. I wish I could speak more and better about the project directly to someone. Talking is better than presenting something.

And as I received only two votes in the apply topic, I have no chance.</comment>


Google Express Is Now Free - <AUTHOR> http://www.elischwartz.co/google-express-now-free/ <comment><USER2> I read this as "Google Express is dead." I paid for the membership but never used it as it was sub par compared to Amazon Fresh, Amazon Prime Now, and Instacart.

</comment><comment><USER3> Looking forward to this coming to Canada.</comment>


Ask HN: Learning How to Live? - <AUTHOR> I keep discovering that I'm living wrong:
- I drink coffee in the afternoon
- I eat unhealthy food
- I drink soda
- I drink bottled water
- I don't recycle
- I drink while eating
- I brush my teeth right after eating
- I rinse my mouth right after brushing my teeth
- I don't floss properly (or at all)
- I look at blue lights before going to sleep
- I sleep on my stomach
- I breath through my mouth
- I don't sleep with white noise
- I wake up with a loud alarm
- I don't sleep 8 hours a day (and don't track sleep cycles)
- I snooze multiple times
- I don't take cold showers
- I shampoo every day
- I don't use conditioner
- I use aluminium-based antiperspirant
- I don't exercise
- I don't protect my skin from the sun
- I wear clothes that don't fit
- I leave the AC/heater on during the day
- I leave the lights on
- I buy a $5 Starbucks coffee every morning
- I drink coffee
- I drive for 1 hour to work every day
- I sit on my thick back-pocket wallet
- I sit at my desk all day
- I multitask
- I have 100 browser tabs open
- I have 100 files on my desktop
- I type in QWERTY
- I don't touch type
- I use my mouse instead of keyboard shortcuts
- I use a monitor that's too low
- I procrastinate on important things
- I never empty my inbox
- I don't use a calendar
- I don't take advantage of 401k matching
- I try to time the stock market
- I don't have emergency savings
- I don't save for retirement
- I have credit card debts
- I buy lottery tickets
- I smoke cigarettes
- I drink alcohol
- I watch porn
- I masturbate
- I swear
- I lie
Where can I find an exhaustive guide that explains how to live properly?
I understand that everyone is different and that "properly" can be highly subjective or controversial (don't get too caught up on the above, mostly fictional, examples), yet I think we could do a much better job at making it easy for people to be aware of their bad habits, inefficiencies, and missed opportunities. <comment><USER2> Why can't you time the stock market?</comment>


Unpluq – Device to regain control over your smartphone - <AUTHOR> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/unplug/unplug-transform-your-phone-into-a-distraction-free-device <comment><AUTHOR> We started a project to reduce smartphone distraction 8 months ago, because we got distracted by our phone so much during studying that we wanted to do something about it. Unpluq helps you to regain control over your smartphone usage. Through combining a physical key and Android software, it enables you to decide when to transform your smartphone into a distraction-free device. With Unpluq you will be able to spend time on the things you find meaningful in life, since it enables you to focus without the distraction smartphones inevitably bring along.

</comment><comment><USER2> Nice idea. But I would be a bit worried as my usb port tend to quickly get flimsy

Just note about HN guideline, if you are presenting your own product your title should have a "Show HN:" at the start.</comment>


Clarissa – A Personal Bot - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/Clarissa-Bot/Clarissa.git<p>In dire need of other developers. Currently only 2 devs (myself and a friend) are committing. Email me @ email@example.com your GitHub username if you are interested. <comment><USER2> What is your license? There doesn't seem to be one listed in your repo.</comment>


Google Made My Daughter Cry Today - <AUTHOR> http://matthovey.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/google-made-my-daughter-cry/

<comment><USER2> > "I'm very, very close to moving all my family's email accounts off Google."

Says the guy who registered a Gmail address for his children when they were born and buys a _Chromebook_ for them, since it's great and everything is in the cloud.

What can I say.

<comment><AUTHOR> Exactly. I was a fan; now... not as much.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Very Bad: firstname.lastname@example.com

Bad: firstname.lastname@example.com (gmail)

Good: email@example.com (or your-lastname.com)

your-lastname.me or your-lastname.com - is the domain you own.

Once you own your own domain and mailbox - just use platform providers (or ISP) for what they are useful for - as a temporary convenience tools. Always maintain backups of your mailboxes under your control.

If ISP or platform-provider will misbehave - scrap them for then better offering.

<comment><USER4> The problem with that is that it's unsustainable. How many ie. Ben Adams would this work with, email@example.com? 1. Now Ben Adams owns `adams.me` and has no incentive or mechanism to offer his domain to the million other people with his last name.

<comment><USER5> His point is more "own the domain you use for email" and less "firstname.lastname@example.com," I think.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Reminds me of a story that made the rounds in 2011 [0]. The title is almost the same ("Google made my daughter cry" vs "Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.").

[0] [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/hey- google...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/hey-google- thanks-for-making-my-daughter-cry/2011/12/12/gIQAhYx9pO_blog.html)

</comment><comment><USER7> The number of people saying "It's the law" as if that has any intrinsic meaning is a little astonishing.

Also, from COPPA: _While children under 13 can legally give out personal information with their parents ' permission, many websites altogether disallow underage children from using their services due to the amount of work involved._

So it's not merely a governmental problem. It's a problem with how much work companies are willing to put in to let children access their services.

<comment><USER8> It suits Hacker News to believe that the government is causing Google to disable accounts, even though that is not true.

<comment><USER9> It isn't a belief. Even if Google obtained parental consent by law it still can't market to children-- since Google's services are a giant marketing engine, it is reasonable for them to disable children's accounts.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> vezzy-fnord Although I personally oppose it and find it asinine, I'm pretty sure COPPA is federal law.

</comment><comment><USER10> "I'm very, very close to moving all my family's email accounts off Google."

To where?

<comment><USER11> i'm sure that this guy whiningly (not a word, but you get what I mean) continuing to use gmail... will really show google

<comment><USER12> Tangential, I know, but sure it's a word:

[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whiningly](http://www.merriam- webster.com/dictionary/whiningly)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> We had this same experience with my daughter around the same age. This is also an issue with Android devices that desire (require?) a Google login when setting them up.

If you need to have a Google account to use a Chromebook, and the under-13 crowd can't have one, then why do they market Chromebooks to kids and families? I shouldn't sign into it for her, since then she would have unfettered access to the net (including my email, Google Wallet, etc.) as ME, right?

</comment><comment><USER14> All online birthdays are 00:00 Jan 1, 1970. Maybe not for a 9-year-old, admittedly, but start of epoch is easy for techies to remember. I have yet to see a birthdate form on the web that would actually be served differently between this and my actual birthdate.

</comment><comment><USER15> This got me thinking, as I have many primary-school clients ("K-6" schools) making extensive use of Google Apps for Education to give the students access to various services like gmail, drive, sites, blogger.

So I just did a search, and found the following question and answer on productforums.google.com[1] from 2009...

Question:

 _We currently have Google Apps Education in our school. Our teachers in the elementary and middle school have expressed a great interest in using Google Docs in the classroom. I read on the web that there is a age restriction of 13. Is there anything in the terms of service that indicates this and what is Google 's position on using Google docs in k-5 classrooms._

Answer:

 _If you are using Google Docs within Google Apps Education Edition for your school domain, your school assumes the responsibility for complying with COPPA and the information that students submit. When offering online services to children under 13, schools must be cognizant of Child Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA). COPPA is a regulation that requires parental consent for the online collection of information about users under 13. Per the Google Apps Education Edition Agreement, any school administering Google Apps Education Edition acknowledges and agrees that it is solely responsible for compliance with COPPA, including, but not limited to, obtaining parental consent concerning collection of students ' personal information used in connection with the provisioning and use of the Services by the Customer and End Users._

 _Parental consent and notification could take place in form of a permission slip granting use of Google Apps and /or other technology services at the school. For more information on complying with COPPA see the FTC's website at www.ftc.gov/coppa._

EDIT:

From [2], google have also said:

 _Asking for age information helps us provide features like age-appropriate settings to our users, who are interacting more every day with the people they know. Under our policies, Google doesn't allow users who are under the age of 13 to have Google Accounts, unless they are using Google Apps for Education accounts through their school. This is similar to a lot of online services, as it 's very complicated for many providers to offer better solutions for children that meet the relevant regulations._

[1] [http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/google- educati...](http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/google- education/K2PJEQyl754)

[2] [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/hey- google...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/hey-google- thanks-for-making-my-daughter-cry/2011/12/12/gIQAhYx9pO_blog.html)

</comment><comment><USER16> It's the law:

[http://www.coppa.org](http://www.coppa.org)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Prote...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act)

<comment><USER17> Indeed. This problem is caused by the U.S. Government, not Google.

So more accurately: A US Federal Law Made My Daughter Cry

<comment><USER18> That's not correct. More likely, they were too lazy to be COPA compliant.

<comment><USER9> COPPA compliance includes no marketing to children, even with parental consent. So they'd have to operate a completely different platform for children. Plus their business model is based on marketing, so they'd take a huge loss operating a second platform for kids. It is stupid to expect Google to accommodate children.

<comment><USER19> It's not really a second platform, is it? It's more like adding a single configuration bit to an account that determines whether it is eligible for marketing campaigns (or whatever else it is they can't do with children).

It's even likely that they already have such a thing in place for debugging purposes.

<comment><USER14> I'm intrigued by this system you suggest that manages to get an entire engine for obtaining 'verifiable parental consent' squished into a single configuration bit, along with an engine to directly notify parents, to allow parents to view all the collected data, and provide deletion from backups. That's one busy bit.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Pro...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act#Compliance)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Eyeroll.

</comment><comment><USER21> Kids cry and cops eat donuts. So ?</comment>


Facebook to Launch "GlobalCoin" Cryptocurrency in 2020 - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48383460 <comment><AUTHOR> I think it will be interesting to see the details of this project. Most of the current offerings do not have anywhere near the technical sophistication that FB can bring, and especially as they iterate I think they will leave every other cryptocurrency in the dust.

</comment><comment><USER2> It will be centralized. Under Facebooks control. And even if some kind of realy hinest and pro-users TOS would be possible, I don't trust that my password is safe in Facebook imagine my money. This is another thing for "dumb people".</comment>


Professor quietly takes student's work and files it as a patent in China - <AUTHOR> https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/135907/my-research-paper-filed-as-a-patent-in-china-by-my-chinese-supervisor-without-me <comment><USER2> This is absolutely hilarious, a really funny little grift.

Having said that, the resolution to this is obvious - the professor is going to get quietly asked to leave the university, the patent could never be used since there's very clear prior art - not that it ever would, since it's only valid in China, the student doesn't seem like they're actually pursuing the idea, and if it were ever applied I suspect it'd only be a pretext which would screw you in China anyway.

Obviously the idea of pursuing the professor for stealing the work seems likely to be a dead end. Of course getting a guilt payment out of the university may be one avenue, although UK universities are pretty tight and perfectly willing to throw their staff under the bus.

I've got to say, I can't imagine this is the only time this has happened. Maybe we're about to find a whole slew of these incidents.

<comment><USER3> Bad idea. In his interest to keep the professor's marketability high so he can pimp the patent.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'd talk to a solicitor in Hong Kong. Offer them 20% contingency on any royalties they can get you.

</comment><comment><USER4> Maybe he was paid to transfer the work to China, in an espionage kind of way.

</comment><comment><USER5> To what degree are patents like this respected and/or enforced in China?</comment>


Ask HN: Is Fingerprint Authentication in phones a good idea? - <AUTHOR>

Why is Fingerprint Authentication a good idea? I never understood why?
What if a Fingerprint Phisher app acquired a young adult's fingerprint when he/she was young and stupid? How can that young adult change his/her fingerprint so it cannot be used once he/she grow up to be a rich professional?
I never I understood what is good news in this.
http://mashable.com/2015/05/22/android-m-fingerprint-authentication/ <comment><USER2> As a sole form of authentication, no, absolutely no. Fingerprints have a lot of disadvantages, even relative to other biometrics. Extremely easy to steal/spoof, not actually unique, and impossible to revoke on account compromise.

You can make the argument that they're mildly useful in 2 (or more) factor auth-- probability that someone has both obtained your password AND lifted your prints is somewhat less likely than either alone.</comment>


Pen Testing Ships. A year in review - <AUTHOR> https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/pen-testing-ships-a-year-in-review/ <comment><USER2> "password re-use across an environment is endemic..." What is the solution against this? I just can't identify with the "D'OH!". People want to get their work done. They will use whatever gets the job done. If there is an easier, better way they will use that. So how can we provide them systems where the easier, better way is also safer? What is the current best practice in this area?

<comment><USER3> I would love to know this as well. The rise of 2FA has made everything more secure for sure, but it has made usability plummet like a rock on Jupiter. Especially in a corporate environment where you have multiple layers of tokens, authenticators and passwords.

Password managers do help, but you still need to click and enter and copy paste many many times a day.

If only someone like apple / microsoft / google came up with a comprehensive solution to all this - as they seem to be the only entities big enough to shoulder such a monumental task.

I mean Apple sorta kinda does, but only for its own services. I have an apple watch, it knows that its me and its authenticated. The proximity with my laptop unlocks it automatically - so far so good, but why can't I use the same thing for github/google/microsoft websites? Why can't safari send some sort of token through to then authenticating that its me? I mean if you're afraid it might be someone else at the computer - _check the damn watch proximity again_! And if there's a need for personas - sure but they are all still linked to me. I would imagine there could be like a system dialog where I choose which persona to send to a specific site/app. /rant

<comment><USER4> I can't imagine 2FA on something like a ship at sea, that may or may not have a working uplink to high latency satellite internet, and probably not SMS that many 2FA providers use.

<comment><USER5> Which is why your second factor would be a physical key, authenticated locally. 2FA doesn't have to require internet access, it just needs two factors!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The cruise booking hacks caught my attention...

In any case, I still find myself removing sticky notes on monitors with passwords. One time, I caught them mass producing login credentials on avery label sheets. I nearly lost it on the poor reception staff.

<comment><USER7> I used to keep a fake password sticky on my monitor to make people like you lose it. :)

<comment> yjftsjthsd-h It would take some work, but I'd really love to have a password that, if entered, would trigger an alert (and maybe power off the machine or something). Then put that booby-trapped password on a bit of paper and stick it under your keyboard or wherever.

<comment><USER8> There's a company that makes exactly this - [https://canary.tools/](https://canary.tools/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> One of the competitions in Hack the Machine[0] brings in a copy of the setup of the bridge[1] of a ship and you're allowed to attack in a lot of ways. It was impressive.

[0] [https://www.hackthemachine.ai](https://www.hackthemachine.ai)

[1] [https://www.hackthemachine.ai/track1/](https://www.hackthemachine.ai/track1/)

</comment><comment><USER10> Stupid question: What are "OT" and "IT" in this context?

<comment><USER10> Answered my own question:

Information Technology (IT): "The entire spectrum of technologies for information processing, including software, hardware, communications technologies and related services. In general, IT does not include embedded technologies that do not generate data for enterprise use."

Operational Technology (OT): "Is hardware and software that detects or causes a change through the direct monitoring and/or control of physical devices, processes and events in the enterprise."

[https://www.globalsign.com/en/blog/it-vs-ot-industrial- inter...](https://www.globalsign.com/en/blog/it-vs-ot-industrial-internet)

So basically OT is IoT and embedded devices, and IT is everything else on your network.

<comment><USER11> Yes, think of OT as the device that connects sensors to actions: When this limit switch is tripped, that servo is activated. You may also want to know how many times each switch is activated, and the status of the servo, so the information gets sent over to IT for logging and display in a HMI.</comment></comment></comment>


Probabilistic Models of Cognition - <AUTHOR> https://probmods.org/ <comment><USER2> I'd like to mention that the research center behind this, the Center for Brains, Minds, and Machines (CBMM), has a great youtube channel: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGoxKRfTs0jQP52cfHCyyRQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGoxKRfTs0jQP52cfHCyyRQ)

Some of my favourite videos:

\- Neural Representations of Language Meaning - Tom Mitchell [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRBf8BWAG3k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRBf8BWAG3k)

\- Computational cognitive science - Josh Tenenbaum (co-author of probmods) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WQO9e5Mdj4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WQO9e5Mdj4)

</comment><comment><USER3> Just a heads up that church has now been replaced by webppl: [http://webppl.org](http://webppl.org).

<comment><USER4> Indeed. And there is now a webppl version of the probmods textbook: [http://probmods.org/v2](http://probmods.org/v2)

<comment><USER5> Thank you for sharing. I have tried completing probmods twice, but gone sour in the syntax twice.

Third times the charm :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Very interesting and well presented. If it were me I would try to provide a few concrete examples, ideally with figures, in the introduction but I'm a visual person.

<comment><USER7> The JS version of the text ("v2") linked above seems to answer your wishes. Interactive in your browser.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I really like the concept but I don't really want to learn a niche programming language to interact with the site.

<comment><USER9> Church was the original probabilistic programming language used for the book, and as per another comment in this thread and a draft PhD dissertation[1], WebPPL is the successor to Church.

"Niche" is probably in the eyes of the beholder if the audience is deliberately diving into probabilistic programming languages and probabilistic cognitive models.

[1] [http://library.meritology.com/fundamentals/chapters/1a-In_a_...](http://library.meritology.com/fundamentals/chapters/1a-In_a_nutshell)</comment></comment>


Show HN: Chrono Weekly – Watch news and trivia each Tuesday - <AUTHOR> https://www.chronoweekly.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hello

I am the creator of Chrono Weeky.

Apart from the pretence attached in modern day.. I find watches interesting. The history attached to models and the fact that each one was built with a specific problem to be solved is something I enjoy reading about. Perhaps others will too.. and so this news letter was born.

From the website:

"Chrono Weekly curates watch news and trivia from around the web.

Every Tuesday we will send you selected headlines from the industry along with some interesting data and trivia on a selected watch. There will also be a few interesting articles to read in your spare time."

My inspiration for this was Go Lang weekly and Better Dev ([https://yeo.space](https://yeo.space))

Thank you

P.S. The rules say signup pages aren't allowed as they can't be tried out. I don't think newsletter signups fit into this as you need to go on the list to receive the newsletter. Happy to be corrected by moderators.

P.P.S Since the first issue is coming on the Tuesday, there are no previous issues to read on the website but they will be made available.</comment>


LSD: cultural revolution and medical advances - <AUTHOR> http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Issues/2006/January/LSD.asp

<comment><AUTHOR> When asked why he was able to design the circuitry and build the Apple computer before anybody else, Steve Wozniak said, "It's probably because I did more LSD than they did."

<comment><AUTHOR> It was an illumination that goes on inside: in ten minutes I lived a thousand years. - George Harrison</comment></comment>


A better "industry best practice" for comparing address books - <AUTHOR> http://blog.textie.me/post/17261989750/keeping-your-address-book-private

<comment><AUTHOR> I wrote this post. We have opt-in, hash-based address book comparison working in a fairly popular consumer app, if anyone is interested in sharing experiences. I recommend it as the way to go.

</comment><comment><USER2> tl; dr: Send hashes of email addresses in the contact list instead of sending the addresses and compare.</comment>


Illinois proposes $1k registration fee for electric cars - <AUTHOR> https://nypost.com/2019/05/10/illinois-proposes-1k-annual-registration-fee-for-electric-cars/ <comment><USER2> This doesn't make much sense seeing as the gasoline tax burden of an electric car should be getting picked up by the power company.

Though, seeing as gas taxes are frequently used as proxies for road usage, I can see the concern. One can't get a thumb on road usage based on KWh from the power company or the gas used to generate that additional power since bigger turbines are quite a bit more efficient than car engine's at capturing the energy from burning a unit of fuel.

Also, full EV's (at least sedans) tend to be heavier than their ICE counterparts. This may not seem to have much impact, but the damage done by a vehicle rolling down a road goes up with 4th power of the weight transferred to the surface per axle. Small increases in weight have increasingly large repercussions for road maintenance over time.

I actually don't see a Machiavellian motive here. Somebody just realized that the old proxy for road usage tax to raise money for road upkeep wouldn't work for full electric vehicles.

Now whether or not they did a good job at articulating why they were doing it, I leave as an exercise to the student. However, I think I could live with this.

I kinda wish the formulas and math involved for stuff like policymaking for upkeep of public infrastructure was a bit more accessible. I feel like if people had a function to look at that didn't necessarily require a bunch of esoteric engineering knowledge to make sense of, tax policymaking could be treated more as the collective action mechanism it should be rather than the bogeyman everyone makes it out to be.

Not that that'll ever happen.

</comment><comment><USER3> I see the dirty hands of the IC car makers here. Their argument - to level the playing field versus gas in terms of taxes that are built in to gasoline/diesel. This is valid, but the average car pays $300-400 annually in gas taxes. They need to make this an annual mileage fee at renewal time to be truly level. So the car makers want to kill the atmosphere as well as boost car repair/rust money. Time to get rid of these politicians</comment>


Ask HN: Depreciation of AWS reserved instances? - <AUTHOR> Is it possible to depreciate the cost of AWS 3-year reserved instances?  Researching GAAP guides and other resources I am still left with an ambiguous feeling.  Is anyone doing this or not doing this and how/why?  Thanks! <comment><USER2> You can not depreciate it, the asset you have is the prepaid balance for services not yet rendered. As the service is rendered per period you will reduce the asset.

Take this as my opinion not as advice. I am not licensed to give you advice on this topic.

</comment><comment><USER3> It can be done. Dedicated tenancy is generally required, and your auditor needs to be on board with it.</comment>


Unsubstantiated Report Has Compromising Information on Trump - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-intelligence.html <comment><USER2> CNN reported that John McCain got this information a while back and that he found the contents of it so damning that he personally gave it to the FBI director James Comey. The FBI already had received those reports from this intelligence firm but still it says a lot that McCain thought it necessary to personally deliver them.

Here is a link from BuzzFeed that they site as a source: [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump- Intell...](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence- Allegations.html)

Note: These are just allegations at the moment and the link is not proof of anything but it is still pretty insane.

<comment><USER3> If there is any actual proof it needs to be made public at all costs. This is not the time to protect methods or some other crock. Unsubstantiated info isn't all that useful, however, since it is easy to brush off.

<comment><USER4> And I already have.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> At this point I'm almost certain this is a fake report, which will only strengthen Trumps position.

What is that line from Batman? Some men just want to watch the world burn?

This must all be very amusing to the person sat somewhere on his laptop pulling the media's strings.

<comment><USER6> So it turns out the author is a former head of MI6's Russia desk and a past president of the Cambridge Union and is now in hiding, worried he's going to get bumped off. Not what I expected.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Why on earth is the NYT publishing an "unsubstantiated report"??? Is journalism really dead?

<comment><USER8> This report was briefed to the POTUS and PEOTUS today and several top Congressman by intelligence officials. That alone makes it newsworthy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> "includes specific, unverified, and potentially unverifiable allegations of contact between Trump aides and Russian operatives"

"It is not just unconfirmed: It includes some clear errors."

If there is one thing you can get out of Trump's election, it is the methods of very powerful actors being brought into the light. Presumably due to the threat they face, panicking is revealing their structure and nature. This appears to be a full blown war.

edit: Oh and by the way, looks like was a 4chan hoax that started early November. Expect small font corrections over the next week. Thats Fake News for you.

edit edit: 4Chan hoax part was the "golden shower" section, that had been fed to political consultant and journalist Rick Wilson. This was included in the report.

edit edit edit: Quotes I provided were from Buzzfeed who first broke the story, at which point other papers covered. [https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports- allege-t...](https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump- has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.meDe2PGWV#.tuRgb8K7o)

<comment><USER10> Do you have a link to something describing the hoax?

<comment><USER11> From the hoaxer himself here...

[https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5nbqfu/mfw_the_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5nbqfu/mfw_the_cia_rick_wilson_buzzfeed_and_evan/dca75so/)

Even other news stations are calling out BuzzFeed for publishing #FakeNews.</comment></comment></comment>


Can you start a small business with free software?  - <AUTHOR> http://launchlab.co.uk/article/Business-tech/Can-you-start-a-small-business-with-free-software/704

<comment><USER2> I should wonder about the opposite: Can you afford to use for-pay software if a free alternative exists when you're a startup ? After all, every little advantage counts and if your competitor uses free software and you don't (assuming both are equally fit for their intended purpose) then you have a disadvantage to overcome.

Every little bit helps, free software is a big bit of help.

</comment><comment><USER3> short answer - 90 per cent yes. There are always costs involved but plenty of software available to kick things off - paid upgrades will be necessary later on.</comment>


How do you know when it's time to move on? - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@jonnym1ller/how-do-you-know-when-its-time-to-move-on-cf154fdd5907#.p2cf2tan4 <comment><USER2> The author only answers with what amounts to "feeling it's time to move on". As much as I respect his courage to make the decision, you can never "know" which road is best - just ask Robert Frost. But I've always taken his poem to mean that you need to make the best of the road you choose - and if you're consistently unhappy, perhaps it's time to take the proverbial "other fork".</comment>


Markdown-preview-sync: A quasi real-time vim markdown preview plugin - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/pingao777/markdown-preview-sync <comment><AUTHOR> A quasi real-time vim markdown preview plugin implement by java, support:

Code Highlight MathJax Custom CSS GFM-Table TOC</comment>


Ask HN: How do I build a Linux phone? - <AUTHOR> I have zero knowledge about what it takes to build a linux phone, please help me understand what I need to learn to be able to build one.
I can spare maybe $20k to experiment over the course of my learning and can travel to shenzhen if required.
How do I go about doing this?
I want to start by installing ubports and postmarketos on a device like the nexus 5 and understand how the OS works. What else would I need to learn to reach my goal of building a linux phone? A learning path would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Somewhat related : is it possible to stick a raspberry pi compute module in a phone form factor and boot raspian? That would be a cheap way to start. <comment><USER2> [https://hackaday.com/category/cellphone- hacks/](https://hackaday.com/category/cellphone-hacks/)</comment>


Physics can explain the fastball's unexpected twist, new study finds - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/11/physics-can-explain-the-fastballs-unexpected-twist-new-study-finds/ <comment><USER2> If it couldn't I would be very worried.

<comment><USER3> Well, I think we mean that we don't currently know how to use physics to explain it. The way stones move in Curling is another example. There's ideas but I don't think there's a consensus.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> How is this different from the Magnus effect?

<comment><USER5> The article's subtitle might lead you to believe reading the article might help you get a little more info.

> MORE THAN JUST THE MAGNUS EFFECT —

<comment><USER6> But the body text at no point discusses the difference. They did disprove a theorized non-magnus effect for the two seem fastball; it's still entirely the axis of rotation.

The only thing unrelated to the Magnus effect discussed as being real was the knuckle ball, but that's a no brainier since those are thrown with minimal spin.</comment></comment></comment>


Flutter (YC W12): The Startup That Wants To Put The World's Webcams To Good Use - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/26/flutter-app-webcam-y-combinator/

<comment><USER2> _Say you're sitting at your laptop, listening to music while responding to emails, writing code, or reading blogs. Then your phone rings, and the typical scramble ensues: You minimize your browser, maximize your music app, and search frantically for the pause button or volume control — all, hopefully, before you miss the call. Sound familiar?_

Wait, am I really the only guy who just hits the mute button?

Cool technology, but that's a strange use case.

<comment><USER3> I don't have a mute button. Actually, my laptop has one, but I'm usually on an external monitor with the laptop lid closed, so I couldn't get to it anyway.

There's always the speaker menu that I can pop up and select mute, but it's unnatural enough that my brain goes into panic mode when it needs to shut off the sound quickly. I'd probably just slap the power switch on my external amp.

So, this strikes me as a much, much more natural user interface than what I assume _most_ people have on their existing system.

<comment><USER4> I have a similar setup (external monitor with the Macbook lid closed) But in my case (and possibly for other Macbook users with the same setup), closing the lid makes the webcam inaccessible as well.

<comment><USER3> Ha, that's a rather obvious thought that didn't even occur to me. I have a Logitech webcam on my external monitor, too, though, so it wouldn't be a problem. :-)

Maybe if I primarily used a laptop directly, I'd have a different opinion, but having played with alternative input devices (e.g. Bluetooth remote control), I really like having a unified method of muting all my media, and in a familiar form factor. Since holding my hand up seems very natural and familiar to me, I imagine that I'd like this hand-recognition system.

<comment><USER5> Hi Guys, we just hated using our keyboards and mouse to control music. Especially, when it's in the background or when we're few feet away. We're just in alpha and launched one gesture - we hope to add many more soon. Thanks for your kind comments and feedback!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "as evidenced by the 11,000 people who downloaded Flutter in the first 11 days it was available, and the 400,000 gestures the app logged from those users ... "

Anyone have it installed? It would be cool to get a review of how tolerant the gesture recognition is.

edit: from watching the whole embedded video it's an interesting kind of "gesture" they look for based on the signature of your hand rather than the movement. Really interesting.

Also: Can you opt out of having data generated from a webcam pointed at you at all times uploaded to some dudes server?

Now that we're swinging back to local/native apps are we (the people who make the apps) really going to give up the data we get from the web model? Or are we going to normalize spyware completely to keep our dashboards full of metrics?

Boy, if people got pissed over the pickpocketing of contact details by an app they installed on their phone imagine how fun the rhetoric will be when someone starts "data mining to increase user engagement and product penetration" with webcam data.

<comment><USER5> Great points and feedback for us. The app works locally on you machine, so no video data is leaving your laptop. Nothing to opt-out when we're not collecting anything.

It is only available for Mac right now. We will have that info on our site as soon as we can. Thanks!

<comment><USER6> That's great. Also what I assumed at first, the gesture count triggered some alarm bells I guess.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think it looks pretty cool, but I feel like outside of maybe some of the webcam games and at home applications they demo'd ...it might suffer from the "social awkwardness" (I don't know a better word) that comes w/ new stuff like this.

Siri was about my limit. I wouldn't be caught using these gestures in a public place, kind of like trying to take photos with your ipad.

<comment><USER5> We hope that at some point gestures become small enough that you don't have to feel socially awkward. At some point, in future, we will interact with machines just like we do it with other humans - through voice, touch, vision... we hope to enable vision, and if it is natural then it is not socially awkward. We love your feedback. thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Skype/iChat video automatically mute my music.

The big thing for me will be trying to get past the webcam light being on all the time, and could something be recording?

They should really come up with filters that obfuscate people to some extent, but still pick up motion, then this would feel better...

<comment><USER9> Yup, I agree. Also it would add extra CPU usage at all times. Of course, you could make it like Siri in that you have to press some key to turn it on. That solves all 3 problems, though I wonder if the webcam activates fast enough for the intended immediately-stop-the-music use.

<comment><USER5> Great point. CPU usage was a concern for us, that is why we spent months optimizing it. It right now uses on average ~5% of your CPU. (20-30% when you do a gesture, 2-3% otherwise). Please try the app if you have Mac and send us more feedback, we would love to hear from you!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> That's basically Kinect for Windows, but using your built-in webcam, right? And targeting gesture controls for apps, vs. games.

I can't find system requirements on their web page, but the demo video shows it running on a Mac.

<comment><USER5> Yes, again, it is for Mac, and we are sorry it's not more obvious. We will add system requirements page as soon as possible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Why not an app tied to the mic that recognises your ringtone and mutes everything? That means I reach for my phone rather than have to make any gestures first.

<comment><USER9> Another practical use of the technology in Shazam! Just gotta make it fast enough, which you probably could considering you just check it against one song vs. every song.</comment></comment>


Damnatio memoriae - <AUTHOR> https://www.tillett.info/2017/10/05/damnatio-memoriae/ <comment><AUTHOR> I know this might seem political, but it is really technical. How do we use technology to stop evil from happening.</comment>


Women in Silicon Valley - <AUTHOR> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7685453.stm

<comment><USER2> I hope they talk to Livingston.

I still remember Bebo when it was just a glorified address book. As the founder said, I signed up, but never went back.</comment>


Mobile networks caught selling your emergency location data to bounty hunters - <AUTHOR> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/02/08/mobile_companies_selling_locations/ <comment><USER2> In a country where everything and everyone is for sale, this is hardly surprising unfortunately.

</comment><comment><USER3> > Privacy advocates stunned that explicit rules ignored, blame head of FCC

A fox guarding the henhouse.

</comment><comment><USER4> I try to ignore politics, but how do republicans justify this kind of abuse? Isn't this simply regulatory capture by the telecoms?</comment>