'Demonically Clever' Backdoor Hides in a Tiny Slice of a Computer Chip - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hides-inside-computer-chip/ <comment><USER2> Past: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11819149](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11819149)</comment>


Psychological Research on Conspiracy Beliefs: Associations W. Personality Traits - <AUTHOR> https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.00205/full <comment><AUTHOR> Original title was too long, so edited it a litte bit. The original was: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Psychological Research on Conspiracy Beliefs: Field Characteristics, Measurement Instruments, and Associations With Personality Traits</comment>


The new MacBook Pro is kind of great for hackers - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@ageitgey/the-new-macbook-pro-is-kind-of-great-for-hackers-64c1c577a4d2 <comment><USER2> I returned my MacBook Pro 15' earlier today. Here's why:

* Graphics card glitches - I paid close to 4K so I don't have to deal with quality control issues.

* Touchpad is just too large. I found myself resting my palm on it all the time, and sometimes (clicking) without realizing it. Also, if you like lying down and working (which I do sometimes because of a lower back problem) the size of the touchpad will make you work extra hard to avoid accidental clicks.

* Had the machine for ~ 10 days, used the touch bar less than that. Definitely not worth the money. Hopefully in the future, they'll have the 15' option without it.

* The bootcamp experience just sucks (this was my primary reason for returning it). Currently, there's no way to gracefully switch between discreet and integrated gpu, so the battery life is terrible, like two-and-a-half-hour maximum battery life terrible. gpu-switch doesn't work either. In fact, if you use gpu-switch you'll have to rebuild both macOS and Windows as the machine will just hang when you try to boot into either.

* Recovery mode has many issues with network connectivity. A few times, I had to tether/connect to my iPhone hotspot for it to go through.

* Sharp edges everywhere.

The specs are very underwhelming too, but I was willing to tolerate lower specs for higher build quality. I actually just picked up an XPS 15 9550 from Microcenter. Got the 2.6Ghz, 16GB (expandable to 32GB), 512GB SSD, 4K touchscreen for $1350 (an open box, new for $1499).

<comment><USER3> What is an ideal Linux distro for programmers using the XPS 15?

<comment><USER4> Ubuntu/Xubuntu

<comment><USER3> I checked, but I couldn't find out if Dell still has that Sputnik programme they did a few years back, where you could order one of these with Ubuntu LTS preinstalled. I'm wondering if everything "just works" yet.

<comment><USER5> They do indeed still have the Sputnik program running. Barton George (from Dell) still updates his blog[0] with status info[1].

[0] - [https://bartongeorge.io/](https://bartongeorge.io/)

[1] - [https://bartongeorge.io/2016/10/04/the-new- xps-13-developer-...](https://bartongeorge.io/2016/10/04/the-new- xps-13-developer-edition-lands-in-europe-and-united-states/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> USB-C charging looks great on paper but disappoints when devices don't charge.

Your device may support a subset of the different USB charging protocols:

        * USB 1.1 lo power: 5V/100mA
        * USB 2.0 hi power: 5V/500mA
        * USB 3.0: 5V/900mA
        * USB BC (battery charging): 5V/1.5A
        * USB quickcharge 1.0/2.0/3.0, proprietary Qualcomm standard
        * USB PD (power delivery) 5 profiles offering up to 100W (5/12/20V @ 1.5/2/3/5A)

MacBooks also use a nonstandard 15V USB-PD profile.

Unrelated to the MacBook, but problems i see with USB-C are:

Chargers may offer cryptographic signatures in the future for authentication against a whitelist at the device.

Second and most problematic: The MacBook is a good citizen here, but many laptops (HP business series, Dell XPS series) only support USB-C PD with profile 4&5 (20V/3A+). This rules out the car dongle as well as cheap USB power banks.

The connector is always the same, the customer cannot deduce charger/device compatibility. The experience will suck.

Edit: typos/formatting

<comment><USER7> Wow, that's more horrible than I thought. Thanks for the summary.

I am honestly befuddled by USB-C. The allure of a universal connector? That's kinda pointless when the cables look mostly the same but support different feature subsets. It's insanity.

It's bad enough that many manufacturers (I'm looking at you, Dell) don't differentiate between USB 2 and 3 Type A. C is so much worse for this.

Instead of a pretty good $1200 13" Air we have a $1800+ cersion that's lost features (MagSafe, worse keyboard) to be a hair thinner that also requires $200 in dongles to connect to anything.

Seriously, fuck you, Apple.

<comment><USER8> I don't know why you are getting downvoted(I guess it's the fuck you at the end), but I absolutely agree - if a cable fits in a port, it should just work. Anything else is horrible design that's user hostile. Apple sells an LG USB-C display, and if you use the USB-C cable bundled with the MacBook Pro, it doesn't work. And you don't get an error message - it just doesn't work.

Some companies, for example Nintendo, figured this out a long time ago. Notice how with their consoles, if the disc/cartridge fits in the console, the console will always play it, even between generations. The customer shouldn't have to research arcane names and study symbols on cables - if it fits, it should just work. And USB-C is just a mess at the moment.

<comment><USER9> > Notice how with their consoles, if the disc/cartridge fits in the console, > the console will always play it, even between generations.

Well, that's not quite true. Both the Wii and Wii U have a standard-sized disc slot; on the Wii you can insert small GameCube discs into that slot and they'll play, but on the Wii U they won't. On the portable side, 3DS cartridges do have a tab to prevent them from fitting into a DS, but that wasn't the case for the handful of games exclusive to the brief-lived DSi.

Recent Nintendo consoles have also had compatibility issues with standard storage devices. The Wii supported SD cards, but wasn't compatible with SDHC cards, which are almost all cards with a capacity of 4GB or higher. This was eventually rectified with a software update... but the update only applied to the system menu, not to games which could access SD cards themselves, including notably Super Smash Bros. Brawl. The Wii U, for its part, supports storing games on external hard drives, but doesn't provide as much power over USB as most hosts do, requiring the use of a USB Y cable and a separate USB power source even for drives that don't normally require external power.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> No, sorry, the new MacBook pro sucks for hackers. It's great for prosumers who like gadgets and benefit from USB-C. Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance.

I get it that prosumers like to think of themselves as "hackers", but ...that's just not how it works. Come on.

<comment><USER11> In my own (possibly and probably inaccurate) opinion, I feel as though "hackers" aren't the people who need professional gear to do professional (or daily) tasks. They're the ones who can make the most out of as little equipment as possible.

"See that toaster over there? It's been reprogrammed to automatically deposit my cat's food every fourth hour and have it warm as well."

"That 2009 dinosaur of a smartphone sitting in the corner? It's an IP surveillance camera."

"That first generation Xbox, it's powering the zoom feature of the Hubble Telescope."

That last one might have been a bit of an exaggeration, but my point is that something isn't great because it's the latest. Something is great because someone increased it's value after using it or created something of higher value than the equipment used to create it.

> Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance.

To address this point... some might. But not all will. And I certainly think that fewer will than the generations before. I really hope USB-C will be as great as these companies say it will, but until then I'll happily use my different ports that work as they are expected to.

<comment><USER12> All professionals need professional gear to do professional work. That's kind of the definition of a professional - someone who can afford the right tools, and knows how to use them to get a job done quickly and competently.

Turning a toaster into a cat feeder is tinkering, not professional hacking. There's nothing wrong with tinkering. But it's the difference between wiring up a Raspberry Pi as a heating controller, and building a company that sells fully licensed and certified heating controllers all over the world with support infrastructure.

One is hobby project, the other... isn't.

A useful definition of a professional tool is one that lets you forget you're using it because it's so transparently intuitive you never have to think about its needs.

I don't think the 2016 MBP does that. The ports are (literally) a side issue. The problem is more that Apple are thoughtlessly losing their reputation among professionals, because Cook, Schiller and co don't seem to be thinking hard enough what they're doing, and don't appear to have an understanding of what their professional customers are looking for.

...Which is not something super-thin for the sake of it, or with a gimmicky touch bar. It's something expandable with ports that "just work", no physical or metaphorical rough edges, with the option to have decent memory (i.e. 32GB) and a reasonable processor speed bump.

This shouldn't be hard or controversial, but for some reason it seems to be beyond Apple's understanding.

I'm hardly a hater. I bought the 12.9" iPad Pro last week, and I'm loving it. But the laptop format is challenging because you either stay conservative, or you go full experimental with (say) a dual-display clamshell. or even a touch panel instead of the trackpad.

Half-hearted innovations like the touch bar glued onto an ungenerous spec look like gimmicks for the sake of it, not serious attempts to improve professional productivity.

<comment><USER13> I still don't understand this seemingly rigid idea of what a "pro" needs in a computer. (High performance, who cares about the battery life or form factor.) Surely it depends what your line of work is.

<comment><USER14> I'm a programmer, mostly web based apps and related servers. For my usage, I _need_ an SSD (~512gb) and a recent cpu with 16gb+ ram. The touchpad has been what kept me on the mbp... Looking at the Razer Blade Pro, love the keyboard layout, but its totally overkill for my needs.

An integrated gpu, with a higher end i5, with a big ssd and lots of ram for half the price would be more appealing to me.. even bringing a lower rez screen would be okay for my needs... love the for factor though.

Everyone has different needs, as you said.

<comment><USER15> > I need an SSD (~512gb) and a recent cpu with 16gb+ ram.

Can you expand on that? I've seen this with folks in the movie/production industry but for webdev it seems like that's more of a want.

What's your daily task load, where integrated GPU and 32GB of ram are tasked?

<comment><USER14> I didn't say an integrated gpu and 32gb are taxed... I said I needed an SSD greater than 256gb (512), and at least 16gb of ram. However, in many corp environments if you need those, you get a hefty machine.

If it's being taxed, it's probably because some idiot spec'd an HDD that pulls resources too slowly For modern JS dev, you _really_ need an SSD more than anything else. Mainly because the build/watch process is tracking many thousands of small files which is significantly worse on hdd. 60+ seconds vs. under a second for any change to take effect in the browser. This can be as much as an hour a day wasted. The 5 hours of wasted time in a few weeks are more costly than the upgrade to ssd.

\-- edit

As to 512gb, it's because after all the software, that can take 100gb... creative assets well over that depending on the projects... it's easy to hit 240gb between the OS, software, projects, and assets.

Beyond that, show me off-the shelf hardware that can be configured with 16+gb ram and a 512gb SSD that doesn't have the other stuff I don't _need_?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> After a week with a 13 inch, what I've mainly noticed is how physically unwelcoming it is:

The edges are very sharp, and the air vents on the bottom are right where you grab the laptop to pick it up, which gives it a knife-like feel. Also, by expanding the track pad far beyond it's useful size, there is now no gap between it and the space key. I have discovered that I have a habit of resting my thumb just below the space bar and now I tend to bump the pointer on accident now. The arrow keys are now a continuous run of keys with no way to orient quickly like previously (where the side arrows were slightly smaller and made it obvious where the up key was without looking.) . Finally, the keyboard action is very short, as you would expect with such a thin laptop.

I do most of my work with an external keyboard and monitor, so it isn't that big a deal to me, but I can see it being hard on people who use their laptop exclusively.

<comment><USER17> >>The edges are very sharp

Just curious, have you used Mac laptops previously? Because sharp edges are something that have existed since the original MacBook Air.

I do agree they are annoying though. I always have outlines on my wrists after using my laptop on my lap for a while.

<comment><USER16> Yes, I have the 2014 version of the 13 inch macbook pro. The increased sharpness is very noticable to me, particularly where the underside vents are now placed, creating that knife-like feel when you pick it up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I am disappointed by the Touch Bar. It is such a small and dim screen and a lot of attention is required for interacting with it. There is no tactile feedback, so touch typing is impossible. QuickType and Emojis are useless for me. It might be a good accessibility feature, but QuickType is much too slow and the upward movement of the entire hand/arm interrupts the flow of typing. I think the Touch Bar is great for designers who can benefit from a 'general purpose touch/slider input device' (e.g. for color mixing, navigating timelines, parameter fine-tuning). It might also reduce cognitive load a bit since it reduces the need for memorizing keyboard shortcuts. On the other hand, users who are blessed with a good memory will probably not benefit very much in that regard because pressing a key combination is much quicker than scanning and touching the Touch Bar.

The only attractive feature of the Touch Bar model really is Touch ID. If Apple would sell the Function Keys model with a Touch ID power button and one more USB port, I would happily buy it. But right now, I am a little bit confused and baffled by Apple's new MacBook Pro product line. I think I am going to wait another generation to see whether Apple gets back on track and whether the Touch Bar can stand the test of time.

<comment><USER19> The function keys were never used for anything in OSX, as the "culture" is to use key chords instead. So even if it's not used much, I think it's an improvement.

<comment><USER18> I use the function keys a lot for changing volume, screen/keyboard brightness, pausing/playing music. I also launch Terminal and Firefox to F3 and F4, I heavily make use of ESC for all kinds of things (VIM, closing UI dialogs) and I occasionally use the function keys for some shortcuts such as finding the next occurrence with F3 in Foxit Reader, F10 to compile, F7 to show the desktop, F6 to switch between Karabiner profiles. For me it would be quite a loss.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I bought a new 13" MBP with touchbar and I'm returning it on Monday. I don't like the keyboard and I _really_ don't like the touch bar, and I seem to only get about 3 hours of battery life. I'm going to stick with my early 2014 MacBook Air until Apple figures their stuff out.

<comment><USER21> Is the keyboard like the one on the Macbook? I tried it once in an Apple Store and didn't like it either. It feels weird to not really press the keys.

<comment><USER22> It took me a couple of days to get used to the Macbook keyboard. I had a similar transition time the last time Apple made a major change in their keyboards.

I'm kind of astonished at how many people turn their noses up at different things based on a first impression, even in groups that you might consider early adopters of tech.

<comment><USER23> > It took me a couple of days to get used to the Macbook keyboard

To be (un)fair, you can get used to a rock in your shoe as well. That doesn't mean you should.

Having to "get used" to a keyboard to return to your previous typing ability seems to be a contra-indicator of the new Macs having a good keyboard.

<comment><USER22> That's reading a lot into my words. I was happy to "get used" to the new keyboard because I thought it was awesome that my laptop had become thinner and lighter... two things that I value more than having a keyboard that might be slightly better.

<comment><USER23> Thinner and lighter only matter when carrying it around. Keyboards matter when you're using the computer. Most folks who use their computer 8 hours or more a day that I know tend to do more with the keyboard than they ever do lugging it around. So the keyboard really matters, even in small increments.

I'm also going to make what I think is a reasonable assumption and say that a vast majority of folks are going to carry their laptops around in bags. In which case, the 7 ounces saved (for reference sake, this is about the same weight as a 45 watt power brick, minus the extension cord) is nearly meaningless, and the half inch on each dimension will be completely meaningless.

<comment><USER24> If that were true, 13" wouldn't be the most popular laptop size.

<comment><USER23> The difference between 13" and 15" for size and weight is much greater than the size and weight savings afforded by the new keyboard. Also, both the 13" and 15" MacBook Pros have the same keyboard.

On a side note, I think that a 13" monitor hits a sweet spot. It fits in a lot of bags, has just enough screen size to be productive without requiring an external monitor, and the performance difference between 13" and 15" computers is usually quite small (if it exists at all).

<comment><USER24> > The difference between 13" and 15" for size and weight is much greater than > the size and weight savings afforded by the new keyboard. Also, both the 13" > and 15" MacBook Pros have the same keyboard.

It's a cumulative process. My first Macbook was a white 13.3" polycarb core 2 duo. The new 15" MBP is a pound lighter, almost half as thick, and only half an inch deeper and an inch wider. Samsung has a 15" laptop that's under 3 pounds, making it very palatable even for people used to a 13"-er.

At what point along that evolution should Apple have stopped striving to get smaller?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This entire article is raving about a single, relatively small but important detail that Apple has been notoriously hostile towards and worst at up until now: cross-manufacturer port compatibility. So hostile that they went out of their way to find ridiculous loopholes in their compliance with the EU's Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding on USB-B.

Yes, it's a great feature, but giving Apple so much credit for introducing it is the ultimate irony.

<comment><USER26> > ridiculous loopholes in their compliance with the EU's Common EPS Memorandum > of Understanding on USB-B

Care to explain? I'm not familiar :)

<comment><USER27> The EC organized a voluntary Memorandum of Understanding for mobile phone chargers, where the major phone companies stated their intent to standardize on a common phone charger. (depending on who you ask, to avoid the EU making a binding rule about it otherwise)

Apple signed this too, but as we all know didn't actually add a micro-USB-B connector to their phones like everybody else, but just providing an adapter to USB, which was not forbidden, but arguably against the spirit of the memorandum.

Citing wikipedia, _Some observers, noting Apple 's continued use of proprietary, non-micro USB charging ports on their smartphones, suggested Apple was not in compliance with the 2009 Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding. The European Commission however, confirmed that all MoU signatories, "have met their obligations under the MoU,"[15] stating specifically, "Concerning Apple's previous and present proprietary connectors and their compatibility with the agreement, the MoU allows for the use of an adaptor without prescribing the conditions for its provision"_

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply)

<comment><USER28> I would disagree with their choice if micro-USB wasn't so lousy mechanically.. I've had more Micro-USB devices fail due to socket failure, than anything else.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Be careful with the idea that the charger is just a regular USB-C charger. These laptops will draw 3-4 amps at 20 volts. Most phone chargers are designed for 1-3amps at 5 volts, so they would only provide a trickle of charge to these laptops. Older chargers (and computers ports!) can be damaged by these higher power draws. Also, the USB-C cable the Macs come with is rated up to a hefty 5 amps. Some of the cheap phone cables out there could actually pose a fire danger if they were to handle 5 amps.

<comment><USER30> Are the MacBook USB-C ports special in some way that makes them USB-C and also a non-standard charger port?

If not, then they must be compliant USB-C ports and therefore would not be supplying an incorrect voltage. As far as I understand the fundamentals of electricity, current doesn't matter. A 5v USB power source that can supply 100 amps would still only supply whatever the device was designed to draw when charging.

But all of that is moot if the MacBook ports are "special" USB-C ports and somehow they negotiate a voltage higher than 5V.

<comment><USER31> The USB Power Delivery (USB-PD) spec allows devices to negotiate up to 20V - the key word, however being "negotiate", means this is no different than how older USB charging solutions work (start at 5V+100mA, negotiate to whatever the client device can handle and what the host will allow).

I'm always amused by how uninformed many people are about USB and power supply, if devices can't negotiate something that works for both ends they just stop. It's a shitty situation to be in if your device fails to charge, but devices that follow the USB-IF rules will never draw more current than the power source can supply, and the power source will never supply more than the device has requested.

<comment><USER30> So if I plug a dumb device into it that only makes electrical contact, it won't make that negotiation.

So, so long as Apple's MacBook USB charger is compliant, it won't destroy anything USB that I plug into it, so long as those devices are also compliant. Right?

<comment><USER31> A "dumb" device that doesn't negotiate will get the minimum 5V@100mA that the USB spec allows, dedicated chargers often decide to not drop the power after the negotiation window is over but a proper host device (laptop, etc.) will drop all power if a device fails to negotiate.

So yeah, if you plug something into the Macbook charger it will either not charge (dunno if it supports traditional USB power specs since it's a type-C only charger) or charge as any other charger already does.

<comment><USER32> Re: "dumb" devices, this is how it's supposed to work, yes, but I don't think I've ever seen a charger that won't happily dump 1A into a resistor wired over the power pins - including brand name (Apple) chargers and yes, the USB ports on a MacBook Pro. I've never seen a modern device supply only 100 mA.

For devices that DO attempt to negotiate, yes in those cases usually you'll see it work according to spec.

I haven't tried USB-C yet, it would be interesting to see if devices have gotten stricter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I'll just go ahead and contradict the running opinion and say: I like my 2016 MacBook Pro 15".

I've owned a few Macs and this one is my favorite. Despite my initial impressions, I _really_ like the keyboard. I'm also quite happy with the trackpad which I've found to be excellent as usual and not picking up stray contact.

The only place I'm not "ecstatic" or "pleased" is with the TouchBar - and to be clear, I'm not displeased. I just don't really notice it. It's there doing its thing and I'm using the laptop, doing my thing. Occasionally I need the escape key and tap where I'd expect the escape key to be and while I don't get the tactile feedback it works.

All in all - the TouchBar is a net zero to me. I didn't lose anything by losing my Fn keys but I don't feel I gained anything with the TouchBar except TouchId which is nice.

TL;DR: Overpriced? Definitely. Pleased with product? Yes. TouchBar? No strong feelings. Returning it? No.

<comment><USER34> I'm finding it really odd that people are praising the new keyboard. I must admit that I have only tested it in the Apple Store, but I find it terrible, the short travel feels really bad to me. Is this something that you just get used to?

<comment><USER35> Bought my new MBP yesterday. I was expecting to have to get used to the keyboard, but was typing on it just fine straight away. Now I actually prefer the feel to my previous 2012 Air.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I have an 13" since almost a week. I think it's great. 95% of my time is spent in iTerm/VSCode/XCode/Android Studio.

Some remarks:

\- Keyboard, especially arrow keys, took me 2 days to get used to, but now it feels weird typing on a old macbook. I actually love it and prefer it now.

\- The thumb + touchpad thing mentioned elsewhere here was definitely a big problem in the first day or two. It isn't anymore (guess I got used to it? not sure because I didn't try to avoid it)

\- USB-C is freaking awesome. I bought an adapter with ethernet, HDMI, usb 3 and SD that actually replaces the 3 adapters I had to carry around. And because of UPD, I only have one cable to plug to the mac and everything is there including power.

\- I don't miss magsafe as much as I thought I would. Although I would happily buy an adapter if it is thin enough (some are coming).

\- Touchbar is actually pretty great, although it being a touch screen, the lack of touch feedback can be annoying at first. Pretty ESC is annoying at first, but I got used to it and don't mind it now.

\- Touchbar would be an _awesome_ medium to get notifications (such as long running terminal jobs etc...)

\- I didn't get any of the battery life issues people are talking about. Actually, I get 8-10 hours out of it easily (ie plug it at the end of the day because I forgot it was unplugged).

\- Thinner bezels around the screen makes it somehow look bigger (even though the visible area is the same size and the screen/lid itself is smaller).

\- HiDPi is freaking great. Finally I can use a 4k monitor smaller than 32" and still get retina display (1440p HiDPi and other intermediate resolutions up to native 3820x2160 are fully supported)

\- It is really thin (no thinner that a Macbook Air, but still). It's feels really great.

\- Actually, I just noticed that because it is thinner, my wrists don't get hurt by the edges like they used to (the exact opposite of what someone mentioned here).

<comment><USER37> Sad to see all these "I get used to it", we spend money to enjoy, not to make ourselves suffer...

<comment><USER36> Getting "used to something" doesn't necessarily mean suffering, or compromising. In my case it wasn't at all.

I do enjoy this laptop a lot, thank you very much.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> USB-C is awesome. It is the future and in some ways it is good Apple are being the way they are.

But... I wish Apple would put USB-C in the iDevices (honestly why does the iPhone and iPad use Lightning when USB-C exists??). It is annoying that I can ditch all my cables _except that one fucking extra Apple cable_.

<comment><USER39> To not piss people off with changing the port on the iPhone again.

<comment><USER38> IMHO they should have done it with the iPhone 7 has they ditched the 3.5mm jack forcing people to buy headphones that will only work with an Apple iPhone or iPad. Hell not even their laptops have Lightning ports so they are literally useless for anything else.

I also find it amusing that they released the new MacBook Pro with a 3.5mm jack when they clearly don't need it. It makes even less sense on a laptop than a phone IMHO.

<comment><USER40> They will do it next year, so they could sell more USB-C-Lightning adapters for Lightning headphones people bought for iPhone 7.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I don't get it. It's bad for hackers because of the tepid software updates, increasingly developer unfriendly application environment, lack of full touch in an age where every other manufacturer does that ad a standard, and awkward meshing with its own ecosystem.

USB-C is pretty great, actually. Still pretty raw for the mainstream tech crowd, but it's not like that for tech-literate consumers.

<comment><USER42> Since when do hackers want touch-screens on their laptops? I feel like that's pretty much the least hacker-y feature a laptop can have.

<comment><USER43> I only speak for myself when I say it's something I would love to have at my disposal.

Seeing my colleague intuitively reach out to the screen to use the Android Virtual Device when we're discussing something convinced me it was actually a nice thing to have.

<comment><USER41> Testing touch UI design with a mouse pointer is futility embodied.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> > The new charging block that comes with the MBP looks exactly the same as any > traditional MBP charger

Actually not, the convenient little 'arms' for the cord are missing. And the cord itself is rather stiff and not very flexible … and there's no green / red charging status light either. It's OK as a USB-C charger but it looks and feels different from a traditional MBP charger.

<comment><USER45> The "arms" on MagSafe adapters are actually bad for the cable - wrapping it around them puts undue stress on the cable, which causes them to fray faster. And a stiff/inflexible cable should also prevent it from fraying.

Seems like Apple took an proprietary, easily-damaged charging cable and replaced it with a standard, less easy to damage one.

The charging indicator light is a definite loss, though.

<comment><USER46> As someone who took good care of my MacBook charging adaptors and cables, I found them to be perfectly durable. Those arms are only problematic when one wraps the cable 'immediately', instead of giving an extra loop and then beginning the winding.

<comment><USER47> Mbp chargers fall apart quickly. 'Taking good care' in this context sounds like 'you're holding it wrong'

<comment><USER46> I'm not sure what you mean

<comment><USER48> He's referencing Steve Jobs' email response to the iPhone 4's antenna issues.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> Finally somebody writing a realistic post about the USB-C port situation! So much short sighted whining when this really is a great step forward.

<comment><USER50> Probably because OP has an Android phone.

I'd _honestly_ love to use my laptop's Ethernet dongle with my iPad or iPhone, but that won't happen. Apple has just recently doubled down on Lightning with the Apple TV Remote, the iPhone 7 headphones and the new Magic Trackpad/Mouse/Keyboard trio. For iPad accessories, they've even introduced the all-new Smart Connector instead of a USB-C port on the side of the iPad.

<comment><USER49> Check this out...

NooQee USB Type C Adapter to Lightning 8-Pin 2-Pack [0]

NooQee Lightning 8-Pin to USB Type C Adapter 2-Pack [1]

[0] [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M340K3B/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M340K3B/)

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K496YTC/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K496YTC/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> TL; DR: _" USB-C all the things" is great... if you use android phones._

Author conveniently avoids mentioning that the charger is another usability step back (no more plastic hooks to keep cable tidy), or that those external USB-C batteries are not really powerful enough to give you anything but a handful of extra minutes, or that, er, Apple's own phone doesn't get any of these wonderful improvements. and of course...

 _> You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters_

It's well-known that the current quality of USB-C cables and adapters is very random, to say the least, up to and including serious electrical damage.

Interoperability is good, but it looks like Apple just introduced a new series of trade-offs that are sub-optimal. Regardless, to say that a laptop is great "for hackers" because it has USB (A,B,C, whatever) ports is just silly. I mean, you can't even change your hard drive here.

<comment><USER52> Yes. The title could have been "USB Type-C is kind of great for hackers", but would that get the same amount of readers? Probably not.

I think the next iPhone will have USB-C. It would make little sense for Apple to commit this heavily on the laptop side while keeping their proprietary connector in their phones.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Sorry, the charger comes with Microsoft surface series has an additional USB port, so I can charge my phone and laptop at the same time. And I won't buy some so called stupid USB c monitor just for meet the needs of the new macbook. This article perfectly described how awful the dongles world looks like.

</comment><comment><USER53> > Now I only need to bring one power cable to the café instead of two and I > can charge my computer or my phone interchangeably. This is so nice!

I've never even thought of bringing a phone wall charger with me when I have my laptop and laptop charger. Just plug the phone into the laptop if it needs charging.

<comment><USER54> Which still requires the charging cord

<comment><USER53> With an iPhone, (or any other phone that doesn't charge over USB C), this is always the case.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> I have no idea how we got to the USB C connector mess. I thought one of the hard fought battles of the tech ecosystem was "if it fits, it will work". What is the rationale for using the same connector for incompatible use cases?

<comment><USER56> Yeah, this is going to be a nightmare for non-technical consumers. It's almost shockingly bad.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> Author forgot to mention new MBPs dont use USB-C, they use _special Apple variant_ of USB-C. Variant that doesnt work with ordinary dongles, from hdmi dongles producing flickering mess to USB 2.0 dongles _silently corrupting files_ from pendrives.

<comment><USER58> Not sure why your comment was down voted - [http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c- th...](http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c- thunderbolt-3/)

<comment><USER59> Thunderbolt 3 is not a "special Apple variant". Most new high-end laptops these days have Thunderbolt 3.

[https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products?tid=14&field_comp...](https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products?tid=14&field_company_nid=All&field_prod_os_value_many_to_one=All&field_prod_tb_version_value_many_to_one=All)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> The article goes on and on about fun new stuff that you can do (and I don't deny them).

But we can't do the same old things we NEED to do, like keep using all our existing cables and devices (including mice!). Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB ports in just one generation.

Regarding the "it's the same plug as your phone":

It's not! iPhones have lightning cable (ironically, their own phone!).

<comment><USER43> > Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have > included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB > ports in just one generation.

This. Dropping all the old ports was a step too far, I think. It's forward looking, but it's an inconvenience today.

I'm sure a smoother transition would've been more welcome.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> > You can even charge your MBP and phone together from one of those generic > portable USB-C backup batteries

That is kind of cool -- but how many batteries is it going to take, in practice, to juice up a MBP from empty?

<comment><USER62> I don't know the specs of the new MBPs, but my mid-2015 MBP's battery is 7530 mAh at full charge. You can get portable charger batteries that are much more than that these days; this one [1] is 26,800 mAh, which in _theory_ could charge my MBP 3.5 times. In practice, less than that, but still probably at _least_ two full charges.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-26800mAh- Re...](https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-26800mAh- Recharged/dp/B01LRQDAEI)

<comment><USER52> You can't directly compare mAh values, as they're an unit of electric charge. The amount of energy depends on voltage, too. Power bank manufacturers are basically running a marketing scam; the batteries they sell have 3.7V while USB uses 5V. What's more, the MBP battery voltage is something around 12V.

So the 26,800 mAh power bank has a capacity of 26,800 mAh * 3.7V = 99,600 mWh = 99.6 Wh of energy. Meanwhile, the 15" MBP has a 76 Wh battery. So theoretically you can do about 1.3 charges; realistically I'd say one full charge.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> This MacBook Pro has given me good reasons to learn to build a custom PC. I am okay dual booting or visualizing OS X in Linux or Windows.

On the other hand, I am impressed how Asus, Dell and Razor has allowed use of external desktop top notch NVIDIA graphics card in their laptops along with USB C and RAID support while keeping system upgradable.

[http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade- stealth](http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth)

Thanks Apple.

</comment><comment><USER64> Just got my 13" two days ago and _very_ happy with it so far. I had a 13" before, got a 15" at work and my girlfriend has the 12". I was almost ready for a 12" myself, and am glad I waited. Although it is noticeably heavier than the 12", and not really objectively that much lighter than the previous versions, the new 13" has the same "just pick it up with one hand" feel that the 12" has. It is wonderful.

My 2 year old daughter has watched me unlock it with my thumb and tries to do the same without succeeding :-) And she can't mess up the password input field either, because there is none. (She can get my iPad into a "reset" state in seconds that I have to then recover from backup. I still have no idea how she does it).

I did have to remove the Siri button from the toucher because (a) it is too close to the delete key and (b) I just don't need Siri that often. The UI for that is pretty neat, by the way: the mouse is able to move into the touchbar, so you can just drag'n'drop into and out of it.

Since I remap my modifiers anyway (caps-lock -> control, where god and Digital Equipment Corporation intended the control key to go), I had no problem mapping the now largely useless control key to escape, although I haven't had a problem with the soft escape key yet. Nice benefit: bringing up the force- quit panel is now very easy.

I really like the USB-C so far, will be far fewer cables and power adapters on upcoming trips. While MagSafe was nice, I won't miss the always fraying cables, especially since they were permanently attached to the power brick, so frayed cable → new brick.

I was surprised how quickly the TouchBar became unremarkable, though the fact that there is a single button to open a man-page for the currently typed command in Terminal is definitely kinda cool! Volume/brightness adjustments take a little more looking (for now), though the fact that you can scrub from the "key" without lifting despite that the control is elsewhere makes it pretty easy. And scrubbing media via the TouchBar is definitely way, way less fiddly than via on-screen controls.

The keyboard looks much classier than my previous MBP's, and I prefer the feel. But then again, I seem to be weird when it comes to keyboards, for example I _loved_ the Amiga 1000 keyboard and hated the big-travel, clicky/noisy keyboards on the original IBM PCs that everyone else still raves about.

EDIT: 95% battery, watching youtube video, 7h+ remaining.

</comment><comment><USER65> > Now I only need to bring one power cable to the café instead of two and I > can charge my computer or my phone interchangeably. This is so nice!

Unless you have the two most common phones (Apple or Samsung), or any of the many others that don't yet support USB-C.

</comment><comment><USER4> On one hand, I must admit that I didn't consider all this.

But quite franky, this post only makes me excited about USB-C and usb-c enabled monitors.

I wonder how much power can a laptop draw from a monitor though.. I currently have a ThinkPad W530 with a 170W power adapter which literally is a brick (in both shape and weight). I wonder if a monitor could power a such-power-hungry beast).

</comment><comment><USER66> > You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters like this by the handful on Amazon > for cents

But beware of the really cheap ones, they can burn your "legacy" USB ports:

[http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb- type-...](http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-c- cables)

</comment><comment><USER67> _> You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters like this by the handful on Amazon for cents:_

Buying a proper USB-C adapter is not trivial.[1] I read somewhere that Amazon subsequently removed a lot of bad listings/sellers but that doesn't mean a _new_ batch of bad adapters are selling now 2016.

 _> In a year or two when we all have junk drawers packed full of extra generic USB-C cables that cost nearly nothing, we're going to look back on this and wonder why everyone was so worked up._

Because Apple didn't synchronize the _USB-C-is-the-future_ simultaneously across all new products. The brand new iPhone 7 is Lightning instead of USB-C. The brand new yet-to-be-released AirPods' recharging dock is Lightning instead of USB-C. That's what leads to the mob mocking Apple's product strategy requiring the clutter of dongles.[2]

[1][http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/google-engineer- leave...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/google-engineer-leaves- scathing-reviews-of-dodgy-usb-type-c-cables-on-amazon/)

[2][https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5a6lbd/it_just_works...](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5a6lbd/it_just_works_apple/)

</comment><comment><USER68> I need a GPU and as much RAM as possible to run VMs. The new MBP, with wimpy graphics and 16 GB of RAM, does worse than a Razer Blade (also USB C, has been out since early 2016)

</comment><comment><USER69> Most of the article seems to be "port compatibility between Apple laptops and Google phones", and doesn't work for those with Apple phones.

</comment><comment><USER70> While we're at it... I just got my 15" MBP and I can't get pass the fact that the keyboard backlight is noticably uneven - e.g. the clover logo in Command buttons isn't fully lit, "alt" text on option etc.

Is anyone else seeing this or is it a faulty unit?

<comment><USER71> Same here. Also my down arrow is really loud on release. Scheduled an appointment with Apple to sort these issues out.

When I look at the black screen from a wide angle (either from left or right) the surface looks uneven. This doesn't have any impact on picture quality though. Does somebody know whether this is due to the anti-glare coating?

Otherwise I'm really happy with my non-Touch Bar 13" model (i7, 16GB).

</comment></comment><comment><USER72> Not saying anything about the new MBP, but I would be really wary of connecting a $2000+ device to a random no-name $9 car charger. Heck, I'm not sure if I'd even want to connect my smart phone to that.

</comment><comment><USER73> Nearly half of the article was about USB-C.

Guess what? MacBooks are not the only ones with that port. $900 laptops have them, and most have at least one USB-A port as well.

Not sure what any of this has to do with hacking.

</comment><comment><USER74> hackers -> people who use Apple laptops and android phones?

<comment><USER75> I think that's a pretty common setup for many hackers, yes. Some only buy it for the hardware, but I see plenty using macOS as well.

<comment><USER76> For the HN definition of hackers, maybe.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> Hackers? Looks like hackers mean people who like gadgets in his post. They are NOT hackers at least.

If hackers mean software/hardware engineer or someone who like programming, a laptop with only USB-C ports is a total disaster because hackers usually have to deal with legacy hardware/system.

</comment><comment><USER78> It is discussed here that you could charge one laptop off another. Okay, cool. But what if they are both plugged in, then you attach them over USB? Do they both send a charge out, possibly cause one or both to fry? And what if you have multiple sources of charging plugged into the machine?

<comment><AUTHOR> Good questions! It's all in the USB Power Delivery [1] spec. The devices will do reasonable things.

For example if you plug four power sources into the MacBook Pro (one in each port), it will take power only from the source that is supplying the highest power.

Or if you plug a cell phone into a USB-C hub, it will suck as much power as it can to charge it's battery as quickly as possible. But if the hub needs more power temporarily to spin up a hard drive, the charging device can momentarily reduce it's power draw and then resume charging when the extra power is available again.

[1] [http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/](http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER79> "...we're going to look back on this and wonder why everyone was so worked up."

My reaction: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncgoPKklVE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncgoPKklVE)

</comment><comment><USER80> What happens if you plug the monitor into your Nexus 6P? Do you get a regular Desktop?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sadly the Nexus 6P doesn't support any kind of direct video-out (USB-C, HDMI or otherwise). It came out before the USB-C screen mirroring specs were finalized. All you can do is chromecast over the network.

But hopefully by this time next year, new cell phones will generally support screen mirroring over USB-C. Some phones (like the LG G5 [1]) already support it.

[1] [http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2016/06/connect-your- lg-g5-t...](http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2016/06/connect-your-lg-g5-to-usb- c-monitors-for-mirroring-charging-in-one-cable/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER81> Apparently the author has just discovered standards.

</comment><comment><USER82> Is there a technical reason why Apple does not provide a MagSafe-style USB-C cable with the new MBP? Is it pure carelessness?

<comment><USER83> Looking at a USB-C plug compared to that of a MagSafe, I'm not sure they would have been able to come up with anything as well-designed as the MagSafe itself. Rather than make due with a more clunky design similar to the Griffin BreakSafe, I suspect they chose to omit it.

<comment><USER84> You could do Griffin BreakSafe style on the charger side and not laptop side, so it would look nice.

<comment><USER83> _it would look nice_

In your opinion, perhaps. I don't think the designers at Apple agree. If they did, I think we would see something similar to the BreakSafe from Apple.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER85> Sounds useful for the very few macOS or iOS developers who happen to have Android phones.

</comment><comment><USER86> So USB-C sounds great. Too bad the laptop offering it has a crippled keyboard.

</comment><comment><USER87> tl;dr: USB-C is awesome, because Android phones that use it are awesome. Oh, and Apple made a USB-C device, finally, too.

</comment><comment><USER88> Computing appliances are not computers. Great for children tho.

</comment><comment><USER89> i didn't see the part that it's "great for hackers"

</comment><comment><USER90> I read this as "fan boy with too much money replaces every peripheral he owns with USB-C; looks for ways to justify being an early adopter while showboating".

Fuck given? 0.

</comment><comment><USER91> My biggest problem is that there are only 4, whereas I use 5 on a daily basis with my MBPr.

<comment><USER92> On the previous version there were only two, so I guess you're that much closer to your 5 devices you need.

<comment><USER91> 5 ports _total_ \- magsafe, 1 thunderbolt, 2 USB and HDMI are plugged in right now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> Personally, I've been waiting a couple of years for Apple to drop the USB-C bomb.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9360128](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9360128)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9490224](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9490224)

The new USB-C iMacs ship in the spring. I'm not sure why PC's haven't started the transition. USB-C is a no-brainer.

<comment><USER94> You can't be serious in thinking PCs haven't started offering USB-C ports. Go to MicroCenter or Fry's and try to find a motherboard for a current-gen proc without USB-C.

<comment><USER95> Most modern motherboards _have_ USB-C, but they treat it as a special case -- you typically get one or two USB-C ports at best, and the rest are type A. (Often, some of those are even USB2.)

<comment><USER96> Probably a chicken-egg thing. I, for one, don't have a single USB-C device at home. Zero. Nothing that can plug into a USB-C port without an adapter. No plans to buy anything that does, unless I'm forced to by computer/phone manufacturers. I would be... _unenthusiastic_ about a motherboard that emphasized USB-C over other ports. _Includes_ it, so I have the option to start transitioning? Sure.

Work's similar. There are a couple USB-C Android phones floating around, but the other end of their cables is— _drum roll_ —USB-A.

<comment><USER93> I think that's my point. PC vendors are slow to change. Not to worry, 2017 will be the breakout year for usb-c. Several hundred million phones will ship with it:

[https://www.cnet.com/pictures/phones-with-usb- type-c/](https://www.cnet.com/pictures/phones-with-usb-type-c/)

It'll be common on Dell's, HP's, etc. Get ready for your usb-c headphones: [http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-offering-free- usb-c-35mm-h...](http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-offering-free-usb-c-35mm- headphone-adapter-all-bolt-buyers)

<comment><USER97> PC vendors can't afford to tell users to throw away all of their accessories every time a sexier connector comes along. Some other vendor will include a ps/2 port or a parallel port or USB type A and if buyers want to keep using the stuff they have, they'll buy the new computer that has the ports they want. Apple can do whatever because if you buy the old model for better ports, you're still buying from them.

<comment><USER93> Absolutely no one said that they need to replace all their legacy ports. Adding a couple of the small USB-C ports to the front and back is all that's needed on desktops. On laptops, putting one on each side should be doable.

A computer that you buy today will last 7-10 years. I guarantee that there will be lots of USB-C devices in 3 years.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Sierra Club Says It Must Confront the Racism of John Muir - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/us/sierra-club-john-muir.html <comment><USER2> He's a nice easy target cause he's dead and it won't change anything.</comment>


Ask HN: What are the some passive income strategies you do beside your IT job? - <AUTHOR> Amazon FBA, Dropshipping etc. Please share your stories. <comment><USER2> Low cost S&P 500 Index fund. Very passive :)

<comment><USER3> Almost the same thing... the ETF with the ticker SPY.

When I researched this years ago, I concluded the costs were less expensive than any S&P 500 mutual find I could find. Not sure if that's still true or not.

<comment><USER4> You can also invest directly into an index fund rather than going through an ETF. Depending on your situation, both have pros/cons.

Many companies offer index funds, though Vanguard's seem particularly popular (possibly because they invented index funds, IIRC).

<comment><USER5> They are also popular because the company is owned by the share holders of their funds. So huge dividends and salaries aren't going to employees or shareholders.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Mostly Passive: Real estate rental

Not as passive:

Amazon FBA: Run a side business selling products on Amazon. I have hired 1 part time employee now that works tasks I have outlined during the week. I work 1 to 1.5 days per week organizing the warehouse and custom orders. In the green after 3 years. It's also fun for me.

<comment><USER7> Do you sell products you're making, or are you buying and selling?

<comment><USER8> Probably buying and selling. There was a Planet Money episode on this, an entire industry of people who just buy things from Toys 'R Us (and other retailers without a significant online presence, esp on Amazon), and selling it on Amazon.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Like some others here, I have an Amazon FBA business but I treat it as my full-time job, even though I've automated a lot of the grunt work and employ a VA for the things that can't be automated.

I did, however, find a little unsolved problem on Amazon that sucks up seller's time, so I built a solution[0] for it with about a month of work, and now it generates >$2k/m with 1-2 hours of customer support work every month.

[0] [https://azlabels.com](https://azlabels.com)

<comment><USER10> Your label product is the best answer on this thread and ironically there are no comments. Knowing an industry, finding a need and building it is the ultimate passive income business. Don't know much about your market but I think you could increase prices to $0 / $20 / $75 per month.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Nobody is gonna just dump their secrets into something like this :D

But.. in case people don't mind. How feasible is it to make passive income by having a blog? I mean by having advertisements or amazon click-thru links.. is it worth the time to set up and use a blog to generate passive income?

<comment><USER12> That's not passive. You have to keep writing content to keep people coming back.

<comment><USER13> not very passive, but in some cases blog posts can be popular for years and therefor generate revenue for years (but not in many fields/topics)

-> kind of passive in the long run

<comment><USER11> I guess this might be true more for technical blogs, ie,. a dev blog explaining how to download a piece of software or repeat a case study discussed in the blog.

For example, I was blown away by how useful & accurate this guy's medium blog was for setting up apache.

[https://medium.com/@JohnFoderaro/how-to-set-up-apache-in- mac...](https://medium.com/@JohnFoderaro/how-to-set-up-apache-in-macos- sierra-10-12-bca5a5dfffba)

(just used this for a class, I'm not pushing anything for anyone)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Rental properties, managed by a 3rd-party professional company.

<comment><USER4> This is an interesting idea. Are there any information sources you'd recommend to people who are curious about this strategy?

<comment><USER15> Check out the Bigger Pockets website. The 3rd party managers are called Property Managers. Make sure you look at reviews to find a good one, there are many out there that will end up costing you more than you save. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Being married isn't all that passive, but it is a great income strategy.

Having kids is a terrible one.

<comment><USER17> How is marriage an income strategy?

<comment><USER18> Getting married is, without a doubt, _by far_ the best financial decision I've ever made. I doubled my income and only very marginally increased my living expenses. I'm saving more money now that I ever thought would be possible, and that savings generates income in itself as capital gains and dividends which is reinvested and compounded. It's friggin amazing! After several years of marriage our _passive_ income (dividends and capital gains) has become significant.

That being said, I wouldn't advise doing it solely for financial reasons. :)

<comment><USER19> You _would_?

<comment><USER18> Woah, Whoops! Typo - wouldn't. Fixed, thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Are Amazon FBA or drop shipping still passive? Both of those still require significant time dealing with exceptions.

<comment><USER21> Last time I read about passive income here on HN it was mostly non-passive side hustles being shown.

Or stuff like ad revenue from apps or sales of books. Maybe passive now, but probably took quite some effort getting to there. It may be passive if the long tail is much bigger than the initial investment, but for most people I guess it's not.

<comment><USER22> By that definition, no income is passive, because everything takes some effort to set up.

<comment><USER23> Passive tends to mean earning money on rents from capital instead of your time/labor. The grey area is brokerage and arbitrage where you are earning money from risk.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I created an app a couple years back that I still work on regularly. So it's not super passive, but I only manage to spend a few hours a week on it. Generates around $1,XXX/month profit. It's called Meta Meme, it's in the iPhone App Store if you want to see it.

</comment><comment><USER25> I made an app a year ago. I did it in an afternoon with 0 experience in mobile apps, using Rails + turbolinks ios & Android. It's really crappy but it generates $150/month. Not bad for the time invested.

<comment><USER26> Care to share what the app is?

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> The Vanguard High Dividend Yield ETF (VYM) has a 3% dividend yield and a minuscule 0.08% expense ratio.

If you buy 500 shares of VYM, you can expect a passive income of $100 per month.

<comment><USER28> For the lazy, this would require an ongoing investment of just over $40,000 currently.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> I have 4 rental properties. Selling 2 though since they are too far from me (GA and OH). Each under $30K.

<comment><USER30> Wow. Curious, how do you fund your purchases past the 1st or 2nd rental home?

I'm finding it difficult to get loans. No-one talks about this issue.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> If by "passive" you mean a lot of fun, I play bass & gig around town as well as running a non-commercial internet radio station - goatradio.org. Being a musician / audio engineer generates a decent amount of cash.

</comment><comment><USER32> I know HN is rather negative toward cryptocurrency in general, but for me it's fun. I run a small mining farm in my basement. It keeps my sysadmin skills sharp and more than pays my electric bill.

On a side note: none of this is really passive.. mining, real estate, and drop-shipping are all very active income streams. Unless you were born with a silver spoon, you probably won't find truly passive income.

<comment><USER33> What equipment do you use to mine with? How re your returns?

<comment><USER32> My farm consists mainly of rx 580 graphic cards. Due to depressed markets, my returns are just okay right now. Luckily my equipment has been paid off since December. To put things in perspective, a single 8GB rx 580 costs around $400 (if you're lucky) and only makes $0.80/day. During the peak at the end of last year, they were making well over $3/day each.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Build a website [https://toptalkedbooks.com/](https://toptalkedbooks.com/) use ROR and Big Query. Use AA to handle server cost.

If you like reading, you can find most popular books in the past year here. [https://toptalkedbooks.com/hackernews/2018](https://toptalkedbooks.com/hackernews/2018)

</comment><comment><USER35> I would say its easier to be focused than general for the small timer. I made a niche ERP integration with an app, then sold it for 150/monthly to 20+ customers. I've done other things like building a plugable CMS and making components but that focused approach I first mentioned was easy money compared to those.

<comment><AUTHOR> Please share the link of your product.

<comment><USER35> This is just for enterprise customers where they wanted a snap-in mobile ecommerce app that integrated with their very niche ERP system you probably haven't heard of. It is just a software subscription agreement with no product site. I'm embarrassed to show on here anyway as its 5 years old now but you get the idea. My wife suggested I do this and it was low hanging fruit, meaning clients wanted it, there was no competition to build it for them as no one really knows that ERP so it was just a pretty easy step to decide. Peter Thiel said "competition is for losers" and I know what he meant in this particular case although on a tiny scale of very niche customers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I'm on duty a few times per week, it's not too active though. Doesn't qualify for passive and has a huge entry requirement, but a very good way of having a double income, since I'm mostly paid to sleep away from home.

<comment><USER37> Like with the National Guard?

<comment><USER36> Just veterinary emergencies :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> I built the bulk of an Android app awhile ago and now it makes a nice passive income off of ads. I do end up making updates to it though since I love to use the app too, so it's not entirely passive I suppose

</comment><comment><USER39> Airbnb

<comment><USER23> As a related one, considering Twisted Road (sharing site for my motorcycle).

<comment><USER40> I was just wondering about something like this. how does insurance work?

<comment><USER41> With Turo (I'd imagine this service is similar), the service or the customer has to provide it. The risk with these services is competition: the better it is, the more people start using it...and then the parent business takes a bigger cut (see AirBnB).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> Can someone explain how they are using Amazon FBA?

I generate some passive income from (by spending 1-2 hours a week):

\- stock & cryptocurrency picking

\- Calls with industry research firms

\- Earn.com

<comment><USER43> How are any of those passive?

<comment><USER42> Passive in terms of time commitment and effort. I don't think there are truly passive income streams unless you have substantial capital to invest in the first place (eg: vanguards and rental property)

<comment><USER44> I think scalable income is a more useful concept than passive income. What I mean by scalable income is when you can increase your income by investing more capital, but keeping time commitment and effort at the same level. In my view purely passive income is either some instance of rent-seeking, or simple risk- free return on economic growth. But even those require a minimal level of effort.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> AI driven stock trading robots, the best hobby ever :-)

No customers, no employees and no investors and truly location independent...

<comment><USER46> That sounds pretty fun. But after you get the basic workings right, isn't it just a latency war with other trading bots (meaning the lowest latency gets in the most profitable trades)?

If you had a uniquely good trading algorithm isn't it effectively just trading by hand but faster? And related question, if you're doing a lot of trades, wouldn't trading transaction fees eat you alive?

<comment><USER45> Not really, because I am not into HFT, so latency is not a problem for me... (I don't have the money, 100s of millions for infrastructure to compete with the big boys)...

Sure, I can do it all by hand, the key here not speed, but automation... I rather be fishing or drinking beer by my pool instead... Trading fees: 5$ fee on $50k/$100k position is frankly irrelevant for example...

<comment><USER46> Have you been able to beat the index funds historically?

<comment><USER45> Sure, double digits return per year on average... making money in the market with 6-7 digits account is easy, the challenge is to make similar returns with let's say 100M+ account, but I am not there yet :-)

<comment><USER47> Any book recommendation? I come from a "boglehead"-centric approach [1], stating that the market is so efficient that it's virtually impossible to beat it in the long term as a mere mortal, so one might as well just buy indexes and get the market return, hoping that in the long term capitalism will continue thriving. And that's what I've done, fully investing my high 6 figure (soon to be 7) liquid net worth into index funds.

The only exception to the rule would be if one has some sort of technical advantage (e.g. HFT infrastructures) or "insider" information.

Was curious to hear if you have any resources that in your opinion could make me change my stance? Thanks

[1] [https://www.bogleheads.org/](https://www.bogleheads.org/)

<comment><USER45> OK, here is one book for you: More Money Than God by Sebastian Mallaby

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Money_Than_God](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Money_Than_God)

My message is this: do not settle for the average - everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, developer, speculator, you just need the drive and to put the hours...

Passive investing for me is a big mistake, because it ignores the risk management, especially for small accounts (less than few millions), people just cannot afford to be losing money for extended periods of time, just look into Japan's Economic Bubble and Nikkei index, every passive investor in it is still at about 50% loss for almost 30 years and counting...

To make money in the stock market, you have to have a system that makes money, not only on the way up, but on the way down as well... For me, personally, my money are too important to leave them to such a "buy and hope" investing strategy...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> i have a very lucrative program, i have already made about 200 dollars in about 4,5 days, here's the link: [https://bit.ly/2HlmIhf](https://bit.ly/2HlmIhf)

</comment><comment><USER49> How much does it cost to hire an FBA employee(s)? I have well over half a million in liquid assets that makes me passive income through investments, but I'm thinking of investing a portion of that into an FBA or drop shipping business, but keeping it as passive as I can. In the past I've never done it because I just can't be bothered into putting part-time job effort into it.</comment>


Types of Web Traffic - <AUTHOR> https://www.plerdy.com/blog/web-traffic-types/ <comment><USER2> Type 1: bails when immediately confronted with a modal popup.</comment>


Sony starts another standards war - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080107-sonys-transferjet-to-take-on-bluetooth.html <comment><USER2> Surprised? Nope! Sony is king of the propriety format from the overpriced Memory Stick to the UMD Disc. It's all about the money; Sony hopes that by flooding the marketplace with these formats at least one will be adopted as an industry standard. This leaves Sony in sole control of it with the potential of licensing the technology to other companies, and making even more money.</comment>


NASA said to be investigating first allegation of a crime in space - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-49457912 <comment><USER2> Before I clicked on the story, my first thought went back to the Apollo 15 "Postal Covers Incident". Each of the three crew members received $7K from a stamp dealer to bring stamp collector memorabilia to the lunar surface and then return them to be sold by the dealer. No criminal charges were filed, but I wonder if the incident might be more properly considered the "first allegation of a crime in space". From the the Wikipedia article: "There was a Justice Department investigation into the covers. Its Criminal Division decided in 1974 that no prosecution was warranted, but the Civil Division the following year assumed the covers would be retained by the government. Kraft wrote, "it was questionable that any law had been broken and [the Justice Department] realized that dragging astronauts into court would not be a popular pastime."

I was surprised that it was not mentioned in the BBC story.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_15_postal_covers_incide...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_15_postal_covers_incident#Distribution_and_scandal)

<comment><USER3> There's also the "Skylab Controversy" \- when a group of astronauts aboard the Skylab went on strike and turned off their radios to protest too long of working hours.

I assume that since most astronauts are Air Force personal, they committed insubordination, although were never tried for anything.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylab_controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylab_controversy)

<comment><USER2> Interesting take and I agree. I always thought of it as a labor-relations issue rather than a crime. However, the article states, "a single day on Skylab was worth about $22.4 million in 2017 dollars, and thus any work stoppage was considered inappropriate due to the expense". Makes the Apollo 15 scandal seem like peanuts.

<comment><USER4> It's interesting to consider how the balance of power tilts between strikers and management in a situation like that. On one hand, the astronauts cost NASA much more money and opportunity cost from lost experiment time than perhaps an ordinary strike. On the other hand, the astronauts only have limited supplies and the strike will eventually break itself.

<comment><USER5> On the other hand, NASA has been known to put astronauts on a "never flies into space again" list for even the smallest indiscretion or misstep. Engaging in something the equivalent of a very brief labor stoppage can be a literal career ender. Not that any of the astronauts on Skylab couldn't walk out the door of NASA and into a new job in the aerospace industry at probably 175%+ of their former government salary.

<comment><USER6> _> Not that any of the astronauts on Skylab couldn't walk out the door of NASA and into a new job in the aerospace industry at probably 175%+ of their former government salary._

Curious, what are the job opportunities of ex-astronauts? I assume they're not the kind of openings to be found on linkedin.

<comment><USER7> I don't know about modern astronauts, but bear in mind that at the point when the Skylab missions happened there were only about 50 astronauts total in the US. Only about half of those had actually flown in space. I have a feeling that being one of the ~25 people in the country with space flight experience was enough to open doors at basically every aerospace company, most large defense contractors, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> To be honest, this really doesn't feel like it needs to be a news story of this magnitude. It feels more like some revenge tactic of said "estranged spouse", but perhaps a better strategy here than to blow up a huge investigation over almost nothing is just to change the damn password.

<comment><USER9> Seems very... vindictive and an overreaction by the spouses part to be contacting the agencies:

> She filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and her family > lodged one with NASA's Office of Inspector General, accusing Ms. McClain of > identity theft and improper access to Ms. Worden's private financial > records.

The fact she was an astronaut put her in an unique vulnerable position in the divorce process, where there are thousands of additional administrative rules she must observe. Normally this would just be a personal issue between two adults or merely a police investigation.

<comment><USER10> She was using government property at her workplace to do these things. If I was using my work computer and network to do improper things online, I'd expect my employer to be contacted about it.

The difference here is that she was basically stuck in the office for months. But that doesn't make it OK.

<comment><USER9> Sure but can't the police handle the identity theft accusations? Which will of course end up involving her work so they'd find out either way and will likely respond in kind.

Why bring the FTC and NASA Inspector General's Office... other than to inflict the maximum amount of punishment?

<comment><USER10> That's a specific way of asking, "why bring the employer into it?" And the answer is, because their resources were used to commit the alleged crime.

<comment><USER9> Which I mentioned doesn't necessarily have to come from an outside agency or inspectors office to have consequences both at work and with police.

<comment><USER10> None of this was necessary, but it's all perfectly reasonable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> How is it known that she accessed the bank account if she didn't do anything beyond checking the balance? Similarly, why is it being investigated if that's all she did? If you take out the "from space" element of this, it's pretty uninteresting and probably happens all the time without being investigated.

<comment><USER12> The information is in the original New York Times story.

"Ms. Worden [the 'estranged spouse'] put her intelligence background to work, asking her bank about the locations of computers that had recently accessed her bank account using her login credentials. The bank got back to her with an answer: One was a computer network registered to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration."

<comment><USER13> That's incomplete, though- NASA has terrestrial computers.

<comment><USER10> If Comcast can tell you which customer had a given IP address at a given time, I'm sure NASA can figure out that a given IP address was the one used for ISS traffic.

<comment><USER14> Or perhaps they used GeoIP: [https://www.xkcd.com/713/](https://www.xkcd.com/713/)

<comment><USER15> I knew I was gonna find this here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Imagine being thousands of miles away for earth floating in the space at 10000 m/h speed , witnessing endless darkness of space, witnessing biggest mystery of life...and still being worried about financial situation back on earth.

Human mind is funny.

<comment><USER17> Stanley Kubrick already poked fun at this in "2001: A Space Odyssey" (1968). Midway to Jupiter, astronaut Frank Poole reclines and utters robotic-sounding commands to the much-more-human-sounding onboard flight computer HAL while HAL displays a video of Frank's parents blowing out candles on a birthday cake, singing Happy Birthday to Frank, and telling Frank they're working on fixing problems with his payroll. A few hours later, Frank's lifeless corpse would find itself drifting through space.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Due to me meeting Anne from her flying Kiowa helicopters with my dad, I may soon be able to say that I personally know a space criminal.

<comment><USER19> What a time to be alive.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Space law is the same as that of international waters right? Will that hold up for long or does it need revision. interesting!

<comment><USER21> FTA:

 _So if a Canadian national were to commit a crime in space, they would be subject to Canadian law, and a Russian citizen to Russian law.

Space law also sets out provisions for extradition back on Earth, should a nation decide it wishes to prosecute a citizen of another nation for misconduct in space._

<comment><USER22> I is weird. I expected something like the laws for international waters, i.e. the flag of the ship determines the jurisdiction.

In case someone in the (former) Space Shuttle kills another person on purpose, I expect USA to prosecute him/her in spite the nationality of the murderer.

Perhaps there are special rules in the ISS because each module is from a different country??? (What happens if someone shots from the Russian module, the bullet goes to the European module and it kills someone in the American module?)

<comment><USER23> This has indeed been covered [1]:

> Let us suppose that an astronaut located in the module of State B shoots a > weapon and injures another astronaut located in the module of State C: On > which territory did the offense actually take place? In order to eliminate > all these practical problems, the territoriality principle was again > excluded, and instead the active nationality principle was adopted as the > basic rule for criminal matters on the ISS.

The "active nationality principle", which is part of the space station agreement, the treaty governing the station, states that jurisdiction belongs to the state of which the perpetrator is a citizen. There is also a secondary "passive nationality principle" which applies if the perpetrator's state doesn't prosecute them, and allows the state of the victim, or which owns any property which was damaged, to take jurisidiction.

[1] [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270646335_Criminal_...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270646335_Criminal_Jurisdiction_in_International_Space_Law_Future_Challenges_in_View_of_the_ISS_IGA)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I thought this was going to be about the allegations ROSCOSMOS made that the hole in the Soyuz capsule were due to sabotage rather than a manufacturing error.

<comment><USER25> She was allegedly checking if payment for the drilling arrived from Roscosmos. It was smart to use spouse bank account.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> My favorite line from the article:

> As space tourism becomes a reality, so might the need to prosecute space > crime

<comment><USER27> Forget the Space Force -- what we really need is the Galaxy Police!

<comment><USER28> Or, "Team America: Galactic Police"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> While not related to the issue at hand, I thought this line was particularly funny:

> Ms McClain has since returned to Earth.

Sounds like something out of a novel!

</comment><comment><USER30> If I am given credentials to a bank account willingly by someone, but am not officially a person on the account, am I not allowed legally to use the account?

I ask that, since it appears there was no hacking involved here, so I assume this is an account she had access to from when they were together.

<comment><USER31> Change gender of the Accused. A woman and man go through a divorce, the man continue to keep tab of his ex-wife through their previous shared bank account. Does that sound like a crime, even if there was no hacking involved?

<comment><USER30> Are you asking me what I think of it on an ethical level? I was more curious about the actual legalities of it or not.

Because if it is actually a crime, me and my partner have been committing that crime on some of our accounts.

Personally, I don't find it to be criminal no. Like giving keys to my appartment to a friend when I'm away on vacation to check on my dog. Obviously, if they come in my house and steal things that's different, but if they were to come in for some seemingly reasonable reason and I didn't want them doing that anymore I should ask for the key back or change my lock.

A divorce can be a pretty nasty thing for all parties involved. Had you shared your bank account with your significant other in an informal way, such as giving them your user/password for it, but not actually made them an official account holder, and during the divorce if the partner signs in for something seemingly reasonable, like making sure there's enough money to pay the bills, I also don't find that criminal. You probably need to have a talk about this, and might want to change your password if you don't want this happening anymore. Again, would be very different if money was transferred out and stolen.

<comment><USER32> Entering a property without permission, key or not, is trespassing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Reminds me of:

[https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/us/06cnd- astronaut.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/us/06cnd-astronaut.html)

Is there something in being an astronaut that triggers such behavior?

</comment><comment><USER34> In space no one can hear you...plea?

That aside, what laws govern space station citizens?

<comment><USER35> From the real article:

"The five space agencies involved in the space station — from the United States, Russia, Japan, Europe and Canada — have long-established procedures to handle any jurisdictional questions that arise when astronauts of various nations are orbiting Earth together."

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/us/nasa-astronaut-anne- mc...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/us/nasa-astronaut-anne- mcclain.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share)

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I suspect NASA will turn this over to some other investigative body and serve in a consultative role. I don't think NASA wants to a police role.

</comment><comment><USER37> So once the Space Force "launches" next week, would this be under their jurisdiction?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Force)

</comment><comment><USER38> I was just watching this Star Trek The Next Generation episode last night where they were investigating Captain Picard. So in my imagination this is just like that.

</comment><comment><USER39> Law in space: marslegalcode.org

</comment><comment><USER40> So what?? Why is this news? Everyone's same sex marriage tabloid tongues lolling out?

</comment><comment><USER41> This is pure click bait.

</comment><comment><USER42> They're capitalizing NASA wrong throughout. It's irritating.

</comment><comment><USER25> > .. extradition back on Earth

She could seek asylum in Russian part of ISS.

<comment><USER43> It's too late for that since she is back on terra firma. The article isn't clear about whether the accusation was made while she was still in orbit.

With apologies to Lt McClain, I would be interested to see this case go far enough for her to pursue a jurisdictional defense. I doubt it is serious enough for that though, but it would be good to get some precedent set before there is a serious crime out there.

<comment><USER44> Is "you can do all the crime you want in space" the precedent we want as a species?

<comment><USER25> Yes. Have you seen The Expanse documentary?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Cljbin: A Clojure pastebin with code evaluation - <AUTHOR> http://cljbin.com/

<comment><USER2> Cool! I also wrote a pastebin in Clojure: <https://refheap.com>

It has an emphasis on being excellent for Clojure but supports a lot of languages via pygments. It seems that it is becoming the defacto #clojure pastebin.

My plans for RefHeap in the future include supporting basically everything gist supports (without using git for anything other than versioning the project itself ;)) and code evaluation. A friend of mine is working on an API- based code eval service that will support tons of languages. We plan to tie that into RefHeap when it is ready.

Anyways, good work. Hit me up in the IRC channel. Perhaps we can join some forces or something. :>

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't even use Clojure, but DAYUM this app looks sexy.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I would love feedback! ❤

<comment><USER4> "Paste" is not an intuitive synonym for "run." If you type or paste some code, you've already pasted. In JSBin it's render. You should just say run.

Also it's always forking, maybe I just want to edit the current without changing the URL.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback @Detrus! I plan on adding a "Run" functionality that can be used before "Saving"/"Pasting". As for editing, that might come down the line if I add something like BrowserID for signing up/in.</comment></comment></comment>


Nerd Dating: Y Combinator/WePay's Bill Clerico & Jenny McCarthy - <AUTHOR> http://www.bravotv.com/the-millionaire-matchmaker/season-5/videos/jenny-mccarthy-has-a-thing-for-nerds Episode is next week...kind of awesome! <comment><USER2> I've watched this show a few times. I'd highly caution against anyone going on the show if your objective is to actually find a match (as opposed to being on TV for the fun of it).

Patti (the host) will consistently throw the millionaires under the bus and humiliate them at any opportunity so that she can boost her ego. Her main objective isn't to make matches. It's to make good tv, and by extension generate drama. (Bravo's tagline is: 'We love drama')

<comment><USER3> A lot of the stuff she does is basically shit-testing, and framing. Truth is 90% of the guys bight that stuff, and then you're out. "Women test men for all sorts of reasons, and it's mostly an unconscious process. Attractive women have a lot of options, and prefer men who are STRONG OF CHARACTER. If you were an attractive woman being chased by hundreds of guys, how would you go about eliminating the losers? You'd TEST them, in subtle ways that test for strength and personality. If you did this on a regular enough basis, this behavior would become unconscious and automatic. Women will ALWAYS test you! Deal with it, learn how to handle it, and move on." [1]

Example I saw in the video.

Patti: "Are you nervous?" ...

Patti: "Do you think she's gorgeous?"

Bill: "She looks gorgeous"

By answering those questions, what Bill did is he bit into the frame and accepted her to control the situation. Notice how Patti leaded the conversation, and Bill played along.

tldr; Patti's not being a bitch, she pretty much doing what every attractive women does to a guy -- only she's doing it with no intention of dating them, rather to quickly dissect the guy

\---

[1] <http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/fswiki.cgi?Shit_Tests>

<comment><USER4> ...and for this exact reason, I can't possibly believe why a "nerd" with the power and status of a startup CEO would go on a show like this. There aren't a lot of nerds who have the social skills to handle the stereotypical attractive Western woman's endless series of tests and burning hoops. And given that this is a TV show meant for entertainment, I don't really see the upside. At least unless you're able to not take this stuff as a joke.

Reality shows are built on the premise of testing people's strength of character, so most of our demographic would just ending up looking like chumps. Which, given the host, is probably the hidden premise of this show -- putting high-status men in a position where they are likely to fail. Unfortunately too much of Western culture is built on the notion of keeping up appearances and maintaining your perceived status, instead of actually having real skills and accomplishments under your belt.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I feel I should chime in since I know BC. I've been dating a girl now for 2 years because of a party he invited me to, and have to admit he handled this way better than I could have (and he has way more game than I do). I was a big wimp when it came down to it: I carried a ring on one of my fingers because I knew if I intentionally "lost" it from a girl I was talking to who I really liked, I had an excuse to go on a first date with her. At some point, this girl (now my girlfriend) at this party gave me her phone, and what else would I do with it besides call myself so that I was guaranteed to get her number? I'm really surprised she talked to me after that. I did get the first date though.

I think the points they made were valid; a lot of women seem to love gossip and things that I don't find interesting, but apparently that's a great way to start/carry a conversation with the type of woman who goes to a bar.

Most women I have met at bars were not interesting to me though. Nearly every girl I've dated has had something nerdy about her and I've met them through my own social circles; my last girlfriend was really into graphic design and the one I'm dating now studied biomedical engineering. Birds of a feather flock together?

</comment><comment><USER6> Fortunately most women aren't like this. It's still disappointing that a popular show can be so viciously anti-intellectual.

In my experience, women are interested in hearing about the guy's passions, not less so if that passion is building a transformative startup.

<comment><USER7> Not only is it dangerously anti-intellectual, it also has some terrible flirting advice.

Telling her that she looks gorgeous? Really?

<comment><USER3> Actually, the way that Bill COULD have responded would be something like:

She: Do you think she's gorgeous ?

He: She's the most beautiful girl I've seen.....in the past 30 seconds

<comment><USER8> "She's the 2nd most beautiful girl I've seen.....in the past 30 seconds"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> "CEO, Internet Payment Company" -

This guy dropped 600 pounds of ice outside PayPal's dev conference. He really can't get some producer to use his company's name on television? Although after watching the clip, I think I can understand why Bill wouldn't want WePay's name associated with this piece of fine television.

</comment><comment><USER10> Jenny McCarthy is the antithesis of nerd culture. Why is she associated with us?

<comment><USER11> I believe the title of the show is "Millionaire matchmaker", the show seems to be propagating the stereotype that men should be wealthy and women pretty. Thus if you're looking for up and coming millionaires the tech industry might not be a bad place to look, especially if you're looking for men who have made their millions before 40.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Box.net founder/cfo was also on this same show.. but don't ask me why i knew that..

[http://www.bravotv.com/the-millionaire- matchmaker/season-3/h...](http://www.bravotv.com/the-millionaire- matchmaker/season-3/hillel-and-dylan)

</comment><comment><USER13> Anyone care to mirror it for us non-US folk?

</comment><comment><USER14> Nerd represent! The clip was pretty funny. Does anyone know if we will be able to watch the full episode online?

</comment><comment><USER15> Well played, Bill, well played.

</comment><comment><USER8> Bill Clerico came off as an Always Frustrated Chump. He needs to shake that off if he wants to be a ladies man. I suggest he start off with a few cover- to-cover readings of The Game.

They already got him started with some advice:

"if you want a 10 you got to be a 10 mentally and physically"

<comment><USER3> I think you mean average frustrated chump

<comment><USER8> I stubbornly stand behind my words. An always frustrated chump is way behind the average frustrated chump. Nevermind I stand corrected. I do think it sucks how they edited it so the highlights of it were them hammering him with advice. It's a conspiracy against nerds. It's a SoCal entertainment industry conspiracy against the Silicon Valley. We all know which is better.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How Is My Company Blocking Clojars.org and Maven.org Downloads? - <AUTHOR> I am perplexed as to how my company is picking off my traffic and rejecting it.
What I know:
- My company uses a proxy to "inject"(not sure a better term) their own SSL certs into my traffic so they can decrypt https traffic. This is evidenced by the Chrome cert button that shows the issuer name, in some cases it is (my.company.com) So there is that. - We are also on a company vpn.
How the issue arises:
- When I try to pip install a new dependency my company issues their cert, which makes the download fail. - Additionally, when I try to connect to maven.org and clojars.org, the cert issue also arises. - At this point I know I can manually download and build dependencies, but I'm just curious at this point.
The confusing: - I have a company phone, with personal hotspot, and a personal vpn installed(not a company vpn) - If I connect my laptop to my hotspot, and turn on my personal VPN, my laptop shows the sites that were originally being intercepted, as not being intercepted. For instance clojure.org use to show(my.company.com) as the cert issuer. Now it shows Amazon. Cool, so I'm not being blocked anymore.
- However, I go back to the terminal to install the dependencies with leiningen, and it says "Cannot transfer artifacts from clojars.org and maven.org": my.company.com - I have confirmed that the VPNed certs to both of those urls are no longer intercepted with my hotspot. - So, somehow my company is still able to mess with the downloads.
Any ideas why? <comment><USER3> I believe that your CLI tools are not set up to use your personal VPN - <USER2> they default to your company one and get MITM attacked.</comment>