A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.? - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/02/opinion/sunday/a-natural-fix-for-adhd.html <comment><USER3> I have severe inattentive ADHD.

1\. There is absolutely no sympathy: The problem with ADHD is that it is a disorder of degree not kind. If I had epilepsy or cancer or had some of my limbs missing then people around me would be supportive and understanding. But not ADHD. Everybody's mind wanders. Everyone would like to only do interesting things. Everyone forgets things from time to time. But, the problem is the degree to which these afflict people with ADHD.

We don't expect someone without legs to walk normally or properly. Yet, when it comes to the mind we have little patience. Somehow, we expect people to get their act together. We label them lazy, unmotivated and indisciplined. A product of poor parenting. We get frustrated that they are not reaching their full potential. In a way, having ADHD in 2014 is like being Gay or having an interracial marriage in the 60s or 70s. Ignorant cynical judgmental people assume that you can will your way out of ADHD through discipline and will power.

2\. ADHD does give you super powers: Insane creativity. The ability to think outside the box. The ability to make off the wall zany connections. Always looking for small advantages and using creativity to your advantage. I use mnemonics to remember things. I hired people overseas who follow up on everything I do. I built products that are on track to doing well. When I do succeed, people write it off as being lucky.

I wish I could write more. But I am actually supposed to be doing something else right now.

<comment><USER4> >I hired people overseas who follow up on everything I do.

Can you expand on this one?

<comment><USER3> Sure. So, I pay like $60 - $70 per month per person. I found highly detail oriented, responsible and non judgmental individuals via elance.com, guru.com, taskrabbit (before it changed its model.) I hired two people.

All they have to do it ping me on Skype/Gmail and ping me every hour for a few hours from Mon - Sat. Once in the morning and 3 to 4 times in the evening. It just takes them a few seconds. That's it. They will just check in on your progress and hold you accountable. They will notice patterns and give advice. Like for ex: If I am not very productive, they will tell me to go to Starbucks so I can focus. Basically I am outsourcing my executive functioning.

I am constantly on the lookout for tips and tricks that worked for other ADHD people who became successful. So, this one I picked from Trudie Styler (Sting's wife). Also it pays to read the comment section of ADHD related articles because that is a goldmine of useful anecdotal information. There was this case where the mom complained that the reason her son did well in school was because he failed a grade and was doing school with along his sister. His sister kept him on track and followed up with everything he was supposed to do. Now that he is about to go to college alone, the mom mentioned her fears about his future. So a combination of these pushed me to build a team around me that keeps me on track.

<comment><USER5> This seems very valuable. Would you be willing to share your hiring process, exactly what you asked of your assistants, ect?

<comment><USER3> I created a profile in the above mentioned sites and posted the job requirements. I mentioned that I was very disorganized and needed help to keep me on track. All I needed was someone who would check in on me every hour on Skype/SMS for a few hours every day. Basically, they would enquire about my progress and how far I have come in the last 1 hour on a particular task.

As soon as you post the job, you get responses within 30 mins. Now, most applicants won't even care to modify their prebuilt response templates or even read the requirements properly. These are easy to weed out. Now, the single most important characteristic of the person you hire is that they should _care_ about your success. You don't want someone who just goes through the motions. You want someone who is assertive and will be your help mate.

After that I made a list of 4 to 5 most important things I wanted to achieve in my life. (Source: Think and Grow Rich) Then made a list of things I wanted to achieve in the next 10 years. 5 years. 1 year and 6 months. I emailed these lists. Then, I made daily, weekly, monthly actionable plans to propel me towards my goals.

This will give them ( and you ) a rough picture of what it is that you are trying to do. The thing is that you can ignore a software reminder but it is difficult to ignore a reminder from another person.

At the end of the day, I get an email report listing all the tasks that I did and those I skipped.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's sad that the article didn't even mention exercise as a potential treatment for ADHD. The OP implies that kids will simply "grow out" of ADHD, drugs, or changing the environment may be enough.

While these are valid solutions, exercise may be equally or even more effective.

John J. Ratey, one of the pioneers of ADHD [1], recently wrote the excellent _Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain_ [2]. In it, he explains in colorful details what happens in the brain, and why exercise may be the best treatment for a bunch of neurochemical imbalances - <USER2> ADHD.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driven_to_Distraction_(ADHD)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driven_to_Distraction_\(ADHD\))

[2] [http://www.amazon.com/Spark-exercise-improve-performance- bra...](http://www.amazon.com/Spark-exercise-improve-performance-brain- ebook/dp/B000SFD21Q/)

<comment><USER7> Exercise is the miracle cure for everything, it would seem.

Though it'd be a moderate help if we could agree on what "counts as exercise" \- a 15 minute walk? Resistance training (how many sets/reps)? HIIT? The fads can be tough on the average person who just wants health.

<comment><USER6> The book ( _Spark_ , link above) analyzes a handful of studies comparing the correlation between the type and duration of exercise, and its effects.

In short: you won't see any long lasting benefits from a single 15min. The best results were achieved at 75-85% of your aerobic capacity, at least a couple of hours per week (total).

You can also benefit from mixing simple aerobic exercises with others that require more coordination and fine movement of your body - martial arts, for example.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 12. Classic, "textbook" example of one. I felt like it was a curse until I was about 20. I was put on Focalin, Ritalin, Adderall, Vyvanse over those years.. they all made me calm and focused. Without my meds, I used to live in my head all day, theorizing how the universe and neurons work.. playing with ideas, twisting shapes in my mind. I was also prone to depression, anxiety, and I hated dealing with emotions.

Then one day, when I was about 23, I did LSD and cannabis together. My whole world came crashing down, and I realized that ADHD was a label that limited my true potential, and made me judgmental of "neurotypicals". After my trip, I realized that I lost about 75% of my visual-spatial ability (I felt out of it for a year or so as I missed having that ability), but I also felt more at peace, open-minded, and in the present moment. I also became a "doer", rather than a "thinker". I do not use any meds at all now; I meditate in the morning for at least 20 minutes, and try to run at least once a week.

With that said, I still like variety, and am a jack of all trades. Last time I did freelance, I loved doing marketing research, design, coding, programming and social media.

<comment><USER9> That's an interesting story. I've read that even one use of LSD can alter the brain (similar to this: [http://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter- personality...](http://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personality- long-term.html)).

<comment><USER8> I took a small dose of shrooms few months ago; it made me closer to nature, and it got rid of my porn/fapping addiction. I really think that psychedelics have the potential to "round" people out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It's weird and frustrating that people label many abnormalities as "diseases".

When I read a list of ADHD symptoms I keep asking myself - how is that a bad thing? Being bored doing unenjoyable tasks, hating homework, "Not seem to listen when spoken to",Struggle to follow instructions,Dash around, touching or playing with anything and everything in sight, Have trouble sitting still during school and homework, Be constantly in motion, Have difficulty doing quiet tasks or activities....

These sound like symptoms of being a kid...

<comment><USER11> I knew a kid that had ADHD. Unfortunately it was just a label - way for a kid to get everything. The kid didn't had ADHD imo, he was just spoiled and his parents were failing to do any parenting. The kid would eat whole mountain of sweets, drink cola all day, play games and scream and cry whenever he was prohibited something. In school he wasnt interested in learning and he basically would do nothing or play portable games all day. He would also not care for others and his needs would be always #1 before anything else.

Parents were really protective of him so they would fight with teachers whenever they would try to do something about it. The kid seemed to be pretty smart and he got all this figured out and used it a lot. But whenever he would be with people he didnt knew in a room, or with no-bullshit people, he would be actually quiet and behaving very good.

 _SOME_ ADHD cases sounds like just putting label on failed parenting to shut parents and avoid being sued by them for not doing any proper parenting.

<comment><USER12> Somebody was reading a list of ADHD warning signs to me from some self help book, which all perfectly described a mutual friend of ours: things like "interrupts other people while they're talking", "doesn't return phone calls", "no respect for authority", "always wants to be the center of attention", etc. I asked, "Maybe they're just an asshole? Isn't it possible to be an asshole without having ADHD?"

Oh, all right, I'll admit: it was really all about me. ;)

<comment><USER11> People LOVE to put labels on things. In many cases ADHD is one of them. This hurts people that REALLY have ADHD though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> So how do you do this in software? Consulting? Startup? I'm a couple years into my first software development job out of school and barely get through the moderate amount of work that's assigned to me right now. I'm afraid of switching to another development job where more would be expected of me (consulting! startups!). Without having these problems under control I may not be reliable despite my talent.

Over the last month or so I've been reading up on product management and it sounds like a good fit. Interact with people, track markets, discover problems, craft creative solutions, have other people figure out the exact implementation... Lately I've been trying to discover broad problems and their solutions in my current position, and it seems to be helping (helps me feel like I'm actually contributing, at least). I don't know any product managers to talk to about their day-to-day stuff though. Has anyone with ADHD found that to be a good career path?

<comment><USER14> Hah. Sounds very familiar. Get yourself in a customer facing role ASAP. This was the advice given to me by a director of product management, who went on to be the GM of our division, and now CEO of a well regarded UK startup.

I switched to delivery consulting after almost 4 years of product dev, and wished I'd done it sooner. There are so many more things to concern yourself with than straight dev work, that your AD(H)D can be a massive advantage.

On the other hand, you will need to teach yourself how to "cut corners" that is antithetical to a software engineering/product maintaining programmer. It's not actually cutting corners, but making calls about when the deliverable should be in the customer's hands with some known design flaws, vs. stuck in beta whilst you wrestle with the extendability.

Now, after a number of years in customer facing roles, technically leading $1M+ programs, I'm thinking about the move to product management. Looking back, I'd have been a crappy junior PM if I'd jumped straight across.

I've seen people with ADD thrive in the "technical marketing", "demo developer", "internal system's engineer" roles, as they are constantly solving different problems, often with little to no requirement to get it right, document it, or look after their hacks. It does require strong (technical) communication skills, though.

<comment><USER13> Thank you for your advice. Those are the roles I feel drawn to so it's nice to hear some validation of those tendencies :) I'll keep an eye out for them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This article's premise is built on an incorrect understanding of "treating" or "fixing" or "losing" (symptoms).

If: baseline x is underwhelming to the point of painful boredom Else: baseline y is higher and therefore satisfyingly stimulating

Then the fundamental problem of a lacking reward system for "normal" (x) baseline activity remains unresolved.

I have ADHD and decided to try medication for the first time only a few years ago (in my 20's). Sure, keeping things "interesting" and "new" can trick one's mind into paying additional attention towards the daily grind, but not for one second does that mean that ADHD would be resolved.

To make a more clear point, let's apply this thinking to another context: Murderers would be cured if there weren't anyone to murder, right? No. You're supposed to solve problems, not symptoms.

<comment><USER16> That's the thing, I think. Treatment (both cognitive behavioral therapy and chemical) has enabled me to get on with my life in so many ways.

It's not about getting rid of the symptoms - they're still there. It's about knowing when your symptoms are getting the better of you -- and taking agency over them. If my brain is a wall of TV's all tuned to different channels with the volume turned to 11, adderal finally gave me a clicker to be able to turn all but one off. Or, at least, mute.

And in many ways, I'm glad I'm not asymptomatic on medication: many of the downsides of ADHD can actually be huge, huge upsides. I thought it would kill my creative problem solving, going on meds: if anything, it's put it into overdrive. Instead of stashing something in my subconscious and hoping a solution percolates up a few minutes, hours, days, or weeks later ... I can pick up the puzzle, look at it, really concentrate and think about it. It's a life changing thing to realize what it's like to actually ruminate on a problem. On the other hand, I still make the zany off the wall connections between two problems that let me come up with a solution to both of them.

Instead of hoping for the luck of the draw, though, I can stack the deck.

<comment><USER15> I 100% agree. People think ADD/ADHD is "resolved" on meds, but it's not the case. They started me on 27mg of Concerta, then 54mg, then I was (thankfully) moved to Vyvanse and titrated my way up to 60mg. The story hasn't changed - it's still valuable to leverage the downsides into strength. An ADD/ADHD brain is certainly a chaotic one, but going on meds has enabled me to do better planning/execution and to actually complete tasks. Your wall of TVs analogy is great - I often describe my head as the similar murmur you hear from a crowd. Thoughts are like white noise where it's nearly impossible to pick the right one out, let alone stay with it for a while when it's so easy to hear everything else on top of it.

Not to sound skitzo, but I think the meds do a great job of quieting that noise. While medicated, I have the ability to plan a task or project, execute each step, and actually stick with it to the end. It's still possible to get off task, and perhaps worse if you do (since then you're REALLY focused on being off task), but the meds still help me think. But that is where it stops. They don't resolve problems - they provide most of the tools needed to change the way you think so you can work on resolving them yourself.

Now, to the popular point of diet and exercise; I'm sure it's a mix of improved medication delivery, the natural stress relief, and the endorphin benefit that comes with it - but eating well and regularly exercising seems to amplify the medication's benefit by 15-20%. Those two things are marginally helpful without meds, along with several other "natural remedies" that I have tried, but I think a combination of all of the above is key.

My original point was just that the article makes it sound like symptoms should be treated via introducing new parts to the equation which ultimate distract people from boring situations. Yet, ADD/ADHD in its TRUE FORM works 100% independent of one's desire to pay attention. The argument of "BUT VIDEO GAMES ARE FINE SO IT'S CLEARLY CHOICE" is 100% falsified by Dr. Thomas E Brown's research. He provides such excellent insight - I am so fortunate to have met him.

I'll close this novel of a post with an analogy made by Dr. Brown when we met:

"Picture a massive old wooden sailboat with dozens of crew frantically fighting to pull the sails, keep up with the demands of their job, etc. Non- ADD/ADHD folk can get a benefit from medication, but it just speeds up both the captain and crew. ADD/ADHD folk, on the other hand, are instead sailing through a terrible storm at a much faster pace than normal and can hardly see - but the crew still keep up with their jobs. The captain is the problem. In this case, the captain is the only one sped up by the meds, and suddenly, no matter how chaotic and messy that voyage is, it's all under control."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'd say one of the causes for over-medication is the lack of willingness of both parents and children to work on ways to succeed without use of medication.

I have (fairly bad) ADHD and my doctor did give me medicine, but only half the light dosage of Strattera, which isn't a stimulant.

Long story short, I ended up hating feeling comatose from the medicine so much I began to work through my ADHD by structuring my life and finding things I was actually interested in.

But it would've been so easy to give me some Adderall and let me just do my thing, which I believe a lot of parents and doctors do. It's the quick and easy route, but arguably worse in the long run when the children grow up to be adults dependent on managing their ADHD with a crutch instead of on their own.

<comment><USER18> I'm not sure I agree with calling drugs a "crutch".

Nobody in their right mind would tell me that Singulair or Dulera is a crutch for my asthma. Nobody would call albuterol inhalers overprescribed or asthma overdiagnosed either. My allergist always has to tell me not to work my life around my triggers past a certain point too. Yet I hear it all the time about the Adderall and Vyvanse I used to take, and about ADHD. All. the. time.

I have pretty bad ADHD too. My parents didn't want to put me on any meds, so I learned all the coping mechanisms the hard and expensive way _and_ feel that I lost out on a lot of opportunities when I was younger as a result. It's the only childhood issue I still hold a grudge over. When I could finally do whatever I wanted, I felt like a huge burden was lifted with meds because I never stopped struggling with said coping mechanisms anyway. Including stuff like "take a shower" and "eat lunch" on my daily-todo HabitRPG checklist.

Unfortunately I'm trying to get pregnant and had to get off almost everything, so now I'm back to digging myself into a hole, getting frustrated with even my non-standard and fun life. If it wasn't for the fact that I have a partner to rely on, I probably would be telling my obgyn to go fuck herself about her judgment call regarding non-stimulant ADHD meds known to be safe. ADHD is a huge negative impact on my life, and I'd even qualify it as being worse than something potentially life-threatening like asthma >:P

Obviously not everyone is the same, and abuse is definitely a problem. That doesn't equate to a crutch IMO. Not to mention there's a million other problems in the way, one in the US being a lack of accessible and affordable quality health care so people with ADHD can easily get help with non- medication options...

<comment><USER9> I watched a talk by Dr. Barkley a while back and he had a wonderful way of phrasing it (paraphrased): "Suppose you had a person in a wheelchair who needed in your building. Would you build a ramp and then after 30 days take it down, saying 'Well, by now they should have figured out how to get into the building.' NO! It's a remedy for a handicap. Neither should you deny medication to someone with another kind of handicap when they need it."

After I let that sink in I suddenly didn't give a crap about the anti-pharma crowd. I have what I need and it helps me, so fuck 'em.

And yes, without it the daily routine isn't one. Completely there.

<comment><USER19> > After I let that sink in I suddenly didn't give a crap about the anti-pharma > crowd. I have what I need and it helps me, so fuck 'em.

Unfortunately the anti-pharma crowd is actively making it more difficult for you to access your medication, by placing increasingly strict controls on access to Adderall and other Schedule II drugs, placing quotas on production (which cause medication shortages[0]), and other measures to 'combat overuse'.

Of course, the only people this actually hurts are people who need the medication on a daily basis and only use legal means to access it, whereas people who abuse/'overuse' it simply stock up ahead of time, or turn to the black market.

[0] [http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/anatomy-of-the-great- addera...](http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/anatomy-of-the-great-adderall- drought)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> For the past few years I've taken both Adderall and Vyvanse, with the past 2 years being Vyvanse. I thought I would be taking these drugs for the rest of my life if I wanted to be successful, because when I didn't take them, I could not focus on work tasks at all. However, the "cost" of these drugs for me was that I couldn't turn off. I was driven from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed. My social life definitely suffered.

So, as I started a new job this year in January, I decided to make a clean break. I quit Vyvanse cold turkey and started a new job. I've been doing exceptionally. I never thought this could happen. Thinking back on the issue just yesterday I was telling a colleague that I thought this was likely because I must have been bored with the tasks at my previous job, and I've found all the new tasks to be interesting enough to bring out what I consider great performance from myself, though not the insane amount of performance I was doing on Vyvanse.

Anecdotal at best, but I independently came to the same conclusions as this article, for whatever it's worth.

</comment><comment><USER21> "In short, people with A.D.H.D. may not have a disease, so much as a set of behavioral traits that don't match the expectations of our contemporary culture."

<comment><USER22> On a positive note, there are A.D.(H.)D. symptoms that do have upsides and can be worked around very cleverly.

Still, there are some that squarely fall into the problematic kind, for example the problem to go back to a task when disturbed (instead of Task A -> disturbed with Task B -> Task A, you go Task A -> Task B -> Task C) or the tendency to avoid mentally taxing task.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> > Nor am I saying we that should not use stimulant medications like Adderall > and Ritalin, which are safe and effective and very helpful to many kids with > A.D.H.D.

are they really safe and effective? I've taken these after being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and although I believe they are quite effective, I am really surprised they give these drugs to young children. I would not.

</comment><comment><USER24> I'm an adult woman with adhd and it's definitely been an advantage as an entrepreneur. When I hyper focus on our company, brilliant things happen because I can think out of the box and my passion and obsession for our product has my undivided attention. Needing to constantly shift work environments, go for walks, and multitask has worked well for me in my startup life. However, in my former corporate life, it was at times crippling and embarrassing. I really appreciated this article because it elevates the need for those with adhd to choose the work environment best fit for their behavioral needs and hopefully sheds light to a wider audience that adhd is in fact 'a real thing'. In a previous corporate role, when i spoke to HR about my daily struggle working in an office environment with tv's on and lots of cubes with loud people talking, they didn't take me seriously and just thought it was a 'millennial' problem. I had to work saturday nights and sundays just to complete my work because during the work week it was so difficult to focus with all the surrounding noise. I lied to my manager about all my weekend work because she down played the very realness my adhd had on my ability to focus like I was making it up. I hope this article brings to light that many people do suffer from adhd and to take their work environment requests seriously. I hope it also encourages those with adhd to be more vocal about it.

<comment><USER25> I worked at an office park in the SF peninsula for a year and see now why I was the guy always going out exploring. I'd ride my bike around, found out we could get on the roof, checked out all the wetlands surroundings, and asked a whole lot of questions on Quora. Haha, I was the wacky energetic guy. Some of the stuff I had to do just about bored me to tears.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> I was diagnosed with ADHD at a very young age, and have been doing battle with my attention span for most of my life. I had only read a half dozen books all the way through when I graduated from High School, despite reading at a college reading level before I was out of elementary school and having started hundreds of them. The few books that I had read included Les Miserables and War and Peace, both of which I binge-read over a period of a few days, barely allowing myself to eat and rarely allowing myself to shower while I read them. The other ones were Frindle, Tangerine, The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time, and Catcher in the Rye. They were completely consuming. My addiction to video games was so intense and so severe that they were outright banned at my house. I was terrible at school, skipping more than half of my classes, but tested in the 99th percentile for standardized testing, learning a lot of what I should have learned in school by deduction as I was taking the test. That allowed me to get into college, which I later dropped out of, electing instead to buy a one-way ticket to China unsure if I would ever come back. Basically I was either 0% engaged in something or 110%, and if I wasn't engaged it felt like no matter how hard I fought I couldn't force myself to care.

The turning point came when I was living in eastern Ukraine serving a Mormon mission. As per the mission rules, the only books we read were scriptural, we only used a computer for 30 minutes a week to email home, and in my particular mission I spent 90% of my time, every minute from 11 AM to 9 PM (except for a one-hour dinner) walking around, talking to people in the streets.

I don't know if it was age or that I was finally rid of the many stimulants I used to have, but my mind just slowed down. I concentrated on _everything_ , and, perhaps especially because I was speaking Russian, I could literally recall every word of every conversation I had. I sat down in the mornings and studied the intricacies of the Russian language for an hour straight without blinking an eye. I read the Old Testament cover to cover; something that would have made me literally pull my hair out just a year earlier.

Then I went home. I got an iPhone, I got on the Internet, and it all came back. I try to limit the stimulants, (I've become very minimalistic), and I usually spend a lot of the morning with a calmer mind, but... I work online. I love the Internet. And I haven't yet been able to calm my mind like it was for those two years.

It may be a matter of self-control - it probably is, but learning to program is incredibly painful. 10 minutes at a time sometimes with an incredible number of stops and starts.

I don't know what the answer is, nor do I pretend that I can project my experience onto some greater understanding of what ADHD is, how to defeat it, or if it needs defeating, but the experience of feeling like I could finally do all the things I wanted to do because I didn't have anything else to stimulate me was fascinating, and it may be valuable to someone else.

<comment><USER9> Similar story here: early age, 0 or 100, high tests and little completion. The difference is I've been programming for most of my life (I'm not exaggerating; I started at 7y). It's likely because I started so young that I find that's my hyper focus outlet, though I still find that every time I try to learn Java it feels so painful I break something and run away (though I know C, C++, Obj-C, Swift, Python, PHP, Perl, shell, and even some Forth). Don't get me wrong, I know exactly two people that like Java and everyone else says it's painful, but they can do it anyway. I simply cannot. My mind shuts off and boycotts the information until the topic changes. It's infuriating.

Having anything at all near me that supplies instant gratification (electronics, mainly) puts me in what I call "hunted mode". That is, I'm itching for something to switch my attention to and very easily distracted. When I remove such things and engage with the world (and turn off or DND my devices -- important) then I seem to enter "hunter mode" where I can put my focus where it needs to be and hold it.

So, of course I become a professional software developer, right?

Adderall lets me work. Turning shit off when I get home lets me live. Paper books let me read (ebooks for reference, though; I'm not a Luddite).

Which is to say: I'm with ya, and you're right about environmental sensory stimulants. But you're kind of wrong about it being a matter of self control. It is, but the problem is that you (we) lack the control of self-control. That's the nasty thing the article doesn't go into. This is an Executive Function disorder, a "cousin" disorder to things on the Autism scale (ever read a list of those symptoms and check off an uncomfortable few?). That's why we wind up medicated. We do need that dopamine to hang around to push through the daily administrivia.

Yet, the article was right that outside of city life this would be great. But I'm a city guy, so ... yeah.

<comment><USER27> The article insinuates that the core problem is the higher base line of stimulus required for motivation.

How does Adderall fix this?

Do you feel mundane repetitive tasks are more rewarding now?

What about tasks that would feel great even without the medication? Do they overload your circuits then?

Am curious as to how the drug manifests itself in your day to day routine.

<comment><USER28> Sp3000 made a relevant comment in response to this but he may be hellbanned as it came up dead.

The article cites research into dopamine receptor issues in those with ADHD and I believe adderall works to inhibit reuptake so you have more dopamine in circulation than you would normally.

I can't speak for everyone but personally it is never a matter of "this feels rewarding and this doesn't". It's more being able to function vs. not being able to function. Without medication "I know I need to do these things, man I should really do these things, look at this list I made of things I need to do" which can spiral into what may be depression when the things don't get done, people get let down, etc... Whereas with medication you are just able to do what you need/want to do.

With unmanaged ADHD I have many ideas and desires that would be rewarding to complete but I am frequently just unable to perform.

<comment><USER29> It's exactly the same for me.

The article seems to be making a case that people with ADHD should find things to do with their life that don't conflict with their condition.

I think "we have the technology" to give people the ability to alter their brain chemistry to let them do things they wouldn't be able to otherwise, and having that choice available or those who want to take advantage of it is better than not having it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Essential Fatty Acids play a role. It's not productive to focus on just one causal factor normally but EFA deficiency is quite common because of:

1\. maligning of dietary fats

2\. high cost of fish relative to other foods

3\. time and effort required to cook eggs in morning and the tremendous marketing investments in easier but ultimately unsustainable 'foods'

It's a shame that so much knowledge about human health goes to waste because of either ignorance or misplaced priorities.

<comment><USER31> [Citation Needed]

<comment><USER30> I'm not against citations but obviously it would be nice if we were amply schooled in the biological functions of dietary nutrients so that the knowledge was just more tacit.

On some level it feels like you're asking me to link to a proof that a<sup>2</sup> \+ b<sup>2</sup> = c<sup>2</sup> solves for the hypotenuse of a triangle.

To learn about EFA's and their general function: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid)

Here's a start: <i>CONCLUSION: The ratio of membrane omega-3 to omega-6 PUFAs can be modulated by dietary intake. This ratio influences neurotransmission and prostaglandin formation, processes that are vital in the maintenance of normal brain function.</i> <b>Source:</b> [http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12728744](http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12728744)

Some medical observations about EFA deficiency symptoms include: <i>Symptoms of omega-3 fatty acid deficiency include fatigue, poor memory, dry skin, heart problems, mood swings or depression, and poor circulation. It is important to have the proper ratio of omega-3 and omega-6 (another essential fatty acid) in the diet.</i> <b>Source:</b> [http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/omega3-fatty...](http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/omega3-fatty- acids)

Notice the fatigue and poor memory.

Sources studying links between EFA's & ADHD:

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584601...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584601002548) (positive correlation found)

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574158](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574158) (this study doesn't include the term ADHD at all but it does speak of the need for EFA's in hippocampal neurogenesis, the common clinical finding of hippocampal atrophy in depressed patients, and the finding that EFA administration gives a statistically significant improvement in depressed patients in clinical trials. The reason this matters for our purposes is because the hippocampus

<b>Hippocampus and amygdala morphology in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.</b> <i>The enlarged hippocampus in children and adolescents with ADHD may represent a compensatory response to the presence of disturbances in the perception of time, temporal processing (eg, delay aversion), and stimulus seeking associated with ADHD. Disrupted connections between the amygdala and orbitofrontal cortex may contribute to behavioral disinhibition. Our findings suggest involvement of the limbic system in the pathophysiology of ADHD. </i> <b>Source:</b> [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16818869](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16818869)

OK, admittedly, I didn't know or expect to find that people with ADHD often have an !ENLARGED Hippocampus. This doesn't mean that EFA's aren't part of the problem/solution equation though.

Just knowing that the amygdala is involved should also cause us to form hypotheses about traumatic memories and anxiety type issues being co-involved with ADHD (struggle with learning, self-control of behavior)

Dietary studies are indicated to determine if essential fatty acid supplementation can influence central nervous system serotonin and dopamine metabolism and modify impulsive behaviors related to these neurotransmitters. Source: [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715354](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715354)

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019397](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019397)

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15925295](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15925295)

The brain is sufficiently complex and interconnected that when you see problems like ADHD (which generally seem to be very treatable/preventable/reversible with certain dietary choices rather than inherent structural problems from birth/genetics) strongly expressed in a person then you can be pretty sure that a large portion of nutrients which relate to brain development and health are either deficient or otherwise not being metabolized normally.

One of the first things IMO that should happen when trying to provide treatment for patients with any disease should be to question them about their diet and emphatically educate them on the critical and irreplaceable role of the different nutrients and how a lack of them may be effecting them. (commonly green vegetables, seafood, healthy fats, Magnesium...etc.)

The diet of most Americans in the last few decades may have increased in calories but I think it's become less diverse and inclusive in essential nutrition. This is arguably the cause of the rise in behavioral and mood disorders among our youth.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Interesting that the article goes down the route of providing more stimulus to help treat ADHD.. wonder if there's also a case for reducing our need for more stimuli (e.g. with mindfulness or meditation) or whether that's just too against the grain of how we are moving as a society (in to a more digital, multi-tasked world)

<comment><USER33> > wonder if there's also a case for reducing our need for more stimuli (e.g. > with mindfulness or meditation)

A study was done in Australia ten years ago on a type of meditation that encourages you to be more mindful to see what effect it can have on ADHD. Children were able to reduce or even cut out their medication completely after completing the meditation program.

[http://ccp.sagepub.com/content/9/4/479.abstract](http://ccp.sagepub.com/content/9/4/479.abstract)

[http://www.m.sahajayogaportal.org/papers/manocha.pdf](http://www.m.sahajayogaportal.org/papers/manocha.pdf) (non-paywall link)

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I have only experienced ADHD second hand, my partner has been diagnosed with it years ago, and a good friend of mine as well. I recognise the "coping mechanisms" with alcohol, and the frustration of getting mundane things done.

The article suggests that the intense concentration or "hyperfocus" they have when they find something interesting can be used to their advantage. Both my partner and friend have gotten into occupations where they can do this. But there will always be mundane things that have to get done as well. Everyone has to pay taxes, and has to watch their spending. Few people like to do this, but almost everyone has to. Having a thrilling job does not alleviate you from these things.

So yes, it can probably help somewhat, but it can't "fix" ADHD completely.

<comment><USER14> Yes. Paperwork, taxes, expenses, etc. _sigh_.

No amount of structure can remove the fact that they are inherently extremely unrewarding, and even staring out the window offers more rewards. The stick just doesn't seem to work for my ADD inclined mind - never has.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> This unscientific narrative is dangerous. ADHD can go away over the years, without medication. But you can't predict it, and there is no evidence for particular causes of "remission".

More stimulation is hardly the answer to the social problems arising from ADHD, to drug addictions or a myriad of other problems patients have. It certainly doesn't work against depression, and good luck curing 5-10% of children just by "stimulating" them more.

Coping with ADHD means improving Attention and Focus. The single most effective way is medication. Additionally mindfulness/awareness meditation has been shown to work. Other activities like martial arts or dancing may have similar effects, but less reliably so.

</comment><comment><USER36> I take my 54mg of Concerta (time released Ritalin - methylphenidate - ie, pure government speed) every morning.

6th startup now? They hit about 100 people and I move on. Wonder why?

Job wise in the startup I am the "fixer". The get it done guy. I wonder why?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Excerpt from article:

Another patient of mine, a 28-year-old man, was having a lot of trouble at his desk job in an advertising firm. Having to sit at a desk for long hours and focus his attention on one task was nearly impossible. He would multitask, listening to music and texting, while "working" to prevent activities from becoming routine.

Eventually he quit his job and threw himself into a start-up company, which has him on the road in constantly changing environments. He is much happier and — little surprise — has lost his symptoms of A.D.H.D.

<comment><USER9> Having worked at an ad agency and startups, if you can find an interesting startup you're going to be in a much easier place when it comes to motivation. It may not solve everything, but it'll make things easier.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I'm glad the article spoke to specific regional recruitment issues in the brain and evolutionary advantages. As someone who was diagnosed at a young age and retain the condition through adulthood, it wasn't until I understood the evolutionary advantages to not being able to quiet regions of the brain not involved in the specific activity - that I learned how to self-learn.

Long story short, it's not just the testing conditions in which it's beneficial to not be in a class-room setting, but the learning phase too. Essentially, I'm completely worthless trying to absorb new information in a room full of people. It's nearly impossible to not be conscious of those around me. However, at home - where I can control environmental factors - everything changes. I am not forced to be reactive and can happily concentrate - even with other portions of the brain remaining active (listening, wondering, whatever).

</comment><comment><USER38> I've never been diagnosed but I'm bored all of the time. I'm almost 30. I've been fairly successful in jobs where I'm learning new stuff all the time. Is it possible I'm ADD?

Edit: I got bored halfway through the article.

<comment><USER39> Do you find routines to be near impossible to establish / follow (eating breakfast, waking up within the same two hour period, taking a shower, etc.)? Are you unable to remember anything without a constantly visible list / alerting system? Do certain irrelavant noises cause you to instantly lose all concentration? Do you have a tendency to forget to pay bills for months while racking up several hundred or thousand dollars in fees? Do your relationships suffer as you often go months without remembering to talk to close friends? Are you usually 5 - 10 minutes late for all meetings and social functions due to an inability to accurately predict durations and intervals of time?

Maybe then!

<comment><USER38> Yes, this is basically all descriptive of me :( the relationships thing hits the nail on the head and has been a recurring problem.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> I think I'm having the exact reverse problem. My focus at work is very good, but I feel anxiety levels going up during the day. Drinking coffee sends my anxiety through the roof. Also I'm often so concentrated on things happening _inside_ my head, that I forget to pay attention to the outside world. This is especially problematic when talking to other people (that talk slowly), or in traffic.

Probably these symptoms are not so bad when compared to ADHD, but at times I just wish there was a (preferably natural) medicine to deal with this.

<comment><USER41> You may want to look into the PI variant of ADHD (primarily inattentive.) It's the "daydreamer" type, but you aren't hyperactive. See more details at [http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivi...](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_predominantly_inattentive)

It isn't unusual to have generalized anxiety or a specific anxiety disorder in addition to ADHD.

Definitely see a psychiatrist to get an official diagnosis--it will help you feel better just knowing what you have. Also, I'd recommend seeing a doctor and getting a physical done too. You may have something physical that is causing the anxiety.

I have both ADHD and anxiety. I went to a psychiatrist and got an ADHD diagnosis. In addition, blood tests plus followup tests done by my doctor showed Graves' disease--a thyroid autoimmune disorder that causes anxiety.

Having both of these diagnosed and seeking treatment has provided me with a lot of relief. I strongly recommend you do the same.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> The article wonders at the huge increase in diagnoses that mysteriously disappear in adulthood, but if the author had spent some time at college recently he'd know that Adderall is seen as THE way to ace tests and study more.

It isn't difficult to walk into a doctors office and act and say the right way and things to get your prescription after you get tired of buying it off friends, either.

</comment><comment><USER43> Well huh. I'd never thought I had ADHD, just a complete inability to motivate myself to do things. However, the descriptions in this article describe me perfectly! Everything seems dull, I'm constantly seeking new experiences, the idea of a daily routine terrifies me (even though my father keeps encouraging me to develop one), but I can play piano for an entire day.

<comment><USER44> Ask to see a psychiatrist. A proper diagnosis will require a history going back to childhood.

I'm 33, I was diagnosed about a year ago. It's made a positive difference on my life.

<comment><USER45> I'm 32.

I've spent at least two decades depressed at my inability to get things done.

Earlier this summer, I tried to talk to my psychiatrist about my inability to reign my focus, and how that was severely impacting my life and my ability to accomplish my goals. Her responses both times were dismissive, that "No one likes doing boring things." Obviously... but the things I'd mentioned weren't boring to me. I had no idea how to help her understand.

Do you have any suggestions for talking to a psychiatrist?

<comment><USER44> I think you should see a different psychiatrist.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> i come from a generation where adhd is vocalised using a cash register chime, so i aggressively avoid acknowledging the diagnosis stead the syndromes

> My patient "treated" his [distraction'boredom'frustration'creative > depletion] simply by changing the conditions of his work environment from > one that was highly routine to one that was varied and unpredictable. All of > a sudden, his greatest liabilities — his impatience, short attention span > and restlessness — became assets.

i developed a similar work environment.. i called it distracting my distractions

i often have multiple projects i want to work on with varied goals and requirements and if i start to lull while working i just shift to another project

i used to do this when i was a younger when reading

i would have many books open and scattered on my floor, all open to different pages

my friends might start reading a book at the same time as me and finish the book in one week what took me a four weeks to finish, but after that four weeks was over i would have finished reading three other books as well, each finishing at the end of that four weeks

books are really easy to build productive workflows around: you can immediately determine speed and pace based on time it takes to read the second page and how long the book is; with projects it is more difficult, i may get stuck on one function for hours and another will come out of me effortlessly, it is a now a matter of correctly recognising when i've begun to sludge signalling i should move to another project

most recently i have been taking breaks from work every thirty minutes or so, unless i am whistling through something, and get up and stretch, while giving my back and butt the rest i try to analyse my progress since the last stretch and determine if a project shift would do me good

</comment><comment><USER47> This is pretty much the same approach I took to largely overcome ADHD-like symptoms. I happen to believe that, if you've fallen into a routine, it's time to re-evaluate, anyway - so the tactic of engineering a more stimulating environment seems like a great idea regardless.

<comment><USER9> > overcome ADHD-like symptoms

First, good for you -- really!

Second, it's _very_ important in discussions like this to qualify the target audience. A LOT of people have SOME of the symptoms, even to levels that impair their lives. NOT a lot of those people have full-blown ADHD.

If you have SOME symptoms and things like that help you, that's fantastic. In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical ADHD diagnoses are _assisted_ with such suggestions, but very rarely do they improve things to the point that there is no longer a significant impairment to that person's life. THAT is when medication is a good fit: clinical diagnosis, life and environment changes haven't significantly helped, and there is still a negative impairment on one's life.

<comment><USER47> I realise there are others that likely have much more severe manifestations of the symptoms than me, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you're making out. Surely the line you describe as "full-blown clinical ADHD" is somewhat arbitrary, when the symptoms exist on a spectrum?

I didn't attempt to get myself diagnosed, but yes, it was a significant impairment towards my life, and yes, there still is quite a negative impairment. If I wanted to get routine tasks done with any kind of consistency, I may well have to look into medication.

But instead, I structured my life around a very diverse range of stimulating past-times, and set myself up with very few obligations (e.g. no employer). This leaves a lifestyle of jumping between stimulating and challenging activities, which allows me to be a lot more productive, and achieve much more, than I ever did when I was in formal education or working a repetitive office job.

> In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical ADHD > diagnoses are assisted with such suggestions, but very rarely do they > improve things to the point that there is no longer a significant impairment > to that person's life.

How far did they take the suggestions? Did they quit their job and start their own startup? While I agree that medication is probably the best solution for certain types of lifestyle, I do think adjusting one's environment is an underrated and underexplored solution, that could do with more research.

<comment><USER9> > Did they quit their job and start their own startup?

They forget to shave and flush the toilet, so no. When I mean full-blown clinical ADHD I don't mean interrupting people and being unable to finish a coding project on time. I mean "gets fired from Mickey D's for randomly staring at the walls". Inattentiveness on a scale that's not being discussed in this article or this thread.

Perhaps I feel so strongly about all of this because I've attended group sessions with non-tech people that are truly suffering because of this thing and I don't have any way of bridging the understanding gap with mere comments on a website. This is a difficult malady for those in tech. Outside of tech? It's sink or doggy paddle, and when you sink there's a whole ocean under you, not a swimming pool.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Here's an audio snippet of Alan Watt's perspective on this issue. In general, he sees modern mental illnesses as personality traits. Thoughts?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8B8jMuDZE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8B8jMuDZE)

<comment><USER9> Willfully ignorant of science.

<comment><USER48> How so?

Watts doesn't deny the differences between those affected by ADHD and those who are not. He argues that these differences are best understood as personality traits and not products of an affliction.

This isn't a matter of ignorance, but interpretation of and reaction to scientific discoveries.

<comment><USER9> There is no success because of ADHD. There is success despite having ADHD.

It's not a personality trait that I cannot physically do something I want to do and need to do without medication and, frankly, I'm sick of people who don't experience it offering new theories on it as if they have some grand insight into it.

Get a head injury that breaks your executive functions. Join us. Then try to offer it up as a personality trait.

<comment><USER49> Love a lot of your posts here you're very vocal and well explain. I'm an ADHDer, software developer, avid researcher, fascinated with neuroscience and cognitive science and studied modules of it in university. But I sense you've been reading a lot from Barkley? And Barkley unfortunately can be closed minded(his brother had ADHD and died in a car crash so it's understandable he's negative towards it). We've seen in neuroscience that certain characteristics in ADHD, i.e lack of inhibition can lead to positives. The brain compensates. Honestly, I feel in the next decade ADHD will be looked upon as a subset of personality/neurological traits, more in line with how as Aspergers is been seen nowadays.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> I just read the article and all of the comments and I am still on the toilet... Does that level of hyperfocus mean I have ADHD?

<comment><USER9> Either that or you're constipated.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> Now give me some

</comment><comment><USER52> A harder question:

If ADHD isn't real but the drugs do something with utility what should be societies stance? If somebody wants to, or needs to do work that requires more concentration, how do we justify denying them the opportunity to better themselves?

Much like giving welfare under the guise of disability, this discussion reflects yesterday s ethics on today's questions.

</comment><comment><USER48> I'm not a fan of the perspective from which this article is written. Where the author writes "X is affected by ADHD", I'm inclined toward "X has a short attention span", or "X is hyperactive".

The same perspective is taken by "victims" of ADHD, parents, and members of the media alike. I think we'd all be better off if we stopped speaking of these conditions as external forces acting upon the self, and instead, as mutable characteristics of the self.

<comment><USER53> I don't have a short attention span and I'm not hyperactive. I spend a lot of time thinking about things. I deduce things noticeably faster than my peers as long as it's not socially related. I have intense focus as long as something remains stimulating. When things lose my interest or are pointless they become tedious and it's not about attention span. I cannot stop worrying about assigned tasks to the point of anxiety. There is a mental barrier and I cannot work on the task despite intentions and efforts to do so. Medications don't really help me. They do at first, then they become less effective. An interesting side note about meds: The first time on meds I finally could see social cues and body language. It was a whole new world. I still see them off the meds now that I know about them but I may have trouble understanding what they mean due to lack of experience in receiving those signals. Getting proper sleep, nutrition, and having regular, serious exercise help more than meds. The affliction is very real. Just because you can't see it or refuse to believe in it doesn't change the fact that it impacts the lives of others.

<comment><USER48> > "I don't have a short attention span and I'm not hyperactive"

I thought these were the defining characteristics of ADHD? I'm sorry, please forgive my lack of familiarity.

> "When things lose my interest or are pointless they become tedious"...

I don't understand how this is considered a symptom of anything. To me, this is entirely normal. Things that you aren't interested in _should_ be tedious. The mental barrier you speak of is internal honesty - you don't find importance or interest in X, and consequently, motivation doesn't emerge.

<comment><USER9> You speak with the world view of a neurotypical human. I'm happy for you.

For the perspective of the broken toys in the box, let me explain. :)

When an NT is asked to do a boring, repetitive task, he'll do it for eight hours and then get drunk afterwards to recover. Good job.

When an ADHD-afflicted individual is asked to do a boring, repetitive task, he'll do it for about five minutes and then spend eight hours trying to find a way to not do it again. Or stare at the wall. Or berate himself for not working. Or rack up a disabling level of anxiety because he's not working.

You present this as something everyone does, and you're right to. The disorder comes in when someone _cannot_ do it. Not that the person will not muster some internal whatever to push on, but that the person's brain is physically incapable of doing it. The same kind of incapable as a major depressive being incapable of talking himself out of an anxiety-induced depression.

When it's a disorder, it's a disorder. The problem is that so many people see the high numbers of people being diagnosed and write it off as a fad. It's not. Maybe the numbers are high and some are being misdiagnosed, or maybe we're learning about all the edge cases. I don't know. I do know it exists and it's an impairment and it goes well beyond basic motivation.

I've had "do it or you're fired" moments where THAT wasn't enough to motivate me, and I had a very real fear of being unemployed.

<comment><USER48> First of all, thank you for this in-depth response. It beats the hell out of anonymous and explanation-less downvotes.

I had never come across the word neurotypical before your comment and now, after reading the corresponding wikipedia page, I am aware that it does characterize me (i.e. "anyone who does not have autism, dyslexia, developmental coordination disorder, bipolar disorder, ADD/ADHD, or other similar conditions").

For the majority of elementary, middle, and secondary school, I fit your anecdote pretty well, minus the getting drunk part (I was young, sheltered, and without access to or interest in alcohol).

However, after sophomore year or so, I realized how much time I had wasted pushing through boring, repetitive tasks, and I grew incapable of completing assignments. This turning point left me in the position of ADHD-afflicted individuals for the final two years of high school. Call it burnout, early senioritous, or whatever - the symptoms were the same. With fear of college app rejections as my motivation (like your fear of unemployment), I couldn't bring myself to do mandatory, largely weighted assignments. They were just too boring, meaningless. Somehow I remained motivated up until then. I really don't know how, to be honest.

Out of curiosity, how would you say my realization [and subsequent drop-off in academic performance] relate to ADHD and NT?

On another note, are A DHD-afflicted individuals literally incapable of mustering the "internal whatever" you speak of? Is the ability to conjure motivation entirely absent? It's really hard to compare similarly subjective abilities, like pain thresholds and the like.

Even if this incapability is just that: a true incapability, I'm not certain that portrayal of ADHD as an affliction is a net-benefit. It seems better for people to believe in their own capabilities, even when many are literally incapable, as you say. Similarly, the belief in free will is good for people and society - even if free will is obviously nonexistent. Determinism yields higher rates of depression and discourages self-responsibility.

<comment><USER54> So does the experience of repeatedly failing at tasks you are expected to master.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


New Google SRE book: Building Secure and Reliable Systems - <AUTHOR> https://landing.google.com/sre/books/ <comment><USER2> Hey everyone - Seth from Google here. Thank you for all the positive comments about the book. I'll be around to answer any questions you might have. As noted, the book can be downloaded for free in digital formats.

PDF: [https://landing.google.com/sre/static/pdf/SRS.pdf](https://landing.google.com/sre/static/pdf/SRS.pdf)

EPUB: [https://landing.google.com/sre/static/pdf/srs- epub.epub](https://landing.google.com/sre/static/pdf/srs-epub.epub)

MOBI: [https://landing.google.com/sre/static/pdf/srs- mobi.mobi](https://landing.google.com/sre/static/pdf/srs-mobi.mobi)

<comment><USER3> I'm on mobile safari and the ePub and mobi files open as text. This means I can't export them to Apple Books or the iOS kindle app. Could you please trigger a download instead if possible ?

<comment><USER2> Thanks for the feedback. This is a known issue that another user flagged this morning. The team is pursuing a fix. The content-type on the file is incorrect :/.

In the meantime, you can open it in a browser and email it to yourself. Not ideal, but a workaround.

[EDIT]: s/pursing/pursuing

<comment><USER4> I was wondering about that. I knew the native Books app supported both formats. Thanks for the quick response.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The most challenging part of this series is not in the material itself. These insights are learnings through hard experience and scale from Google are invaluable.

No, the hard thing for everyone is to recognize is that most companies are not Google and don't have Google's problems, resources, or time to follow these practices.

Definitely read the material, I will thoroughly, but don't apply this blindly. Solve YOUR problems, not theirs.

<comment><USER6> We were very much aware that not all companies can afford to staff a dedicated security team. We tried to do our best to make sure that the book is applicable to a wider audience: from startups, to big corporations.

(disclaimer: I work at Google)

<comment><USER7> It's not as applicable to startups as you would think. The real calculation startups are making all of the time that this book doesn't mention is "is it worth making this particular piece scale/secure/robust before we run out of money?"

While it's technically true that the advice would apply to startups in the sense that it would improve their reliability, the elephant in the room is that it doesn't matter. The engineering skill at a startup is understanding what's actually critical, and this book doesn't speak to that.

<comment><USER8> The "is it doing X before we run out of money?" question is way overblown in startup land, usually by product people to skew developer time towards more features instead of much needed foundational work.

In reality, this question is almost always instantly answerable. You're either still building out your MVP and desperately need customers to validate your idea, in which case the answer is "No", or you're an established startup with runway and a growing customer base, in which case the answer is "Yes".

<comment><USER9> This doesn't line up with my experience in startups. Security is never taken anywhere as seriously as all of the best practices (including this one) suggest. Same for cicd, etc.

<comment><USER10> Not to be dismissal - but that sound anecdotal.

I think it's best startups are provided with the most tools/options based on their priorities -- including the underlying lessons this book attempts to deliver - is the right path. Then it's up to their values and priorities.

Ignoring my startup experience (as they are all security-related and therefore took it serious), I believe startups that are handling any amount of customer data should be looking at security very seriously.

Now whether or not they do take it seriously is another problem, that doesn't mean the opportunities and advice shouldn't exist.

<comment><USER9> Not to be dismissal - but your experience is anecdotal _and_ from the security industry and has no bearing on the reality of running a startup whose business is not security.

>I believe startups that are handling any amount of customer data should be looking at security very seriously.

What you believe has no bearing at all on the cost/benefits of running a business. In the current regulatory environment, leaking customer data in the US costs less money than losing one big customer for a b2b startup. Guess what that means when it's time to decide to work on a feature for a specific customer or to do a full source code audit of all dependencies for vulnerabilities?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Off-topic: It made me chuckle to see this well-designed page, with great+free content, and also pulling in angular.js, doesn't follow Google's recommended practices for SERP, e.g. meta tags so that pasting the link into Slack, etc. displays some info rather than just the bare URL

<comment><USER12> Is there a Slack setting for this? I personally prefer bare URLs and always have to manually edit my messages to remove the URL info snippets.

<comment><USER13> Yeah as long as you're admin: [https://slack.com/intl/en- fi/help/articles/360001502048-Mana...](https://slack.com/intl/en- fi/help/articles/360001502048-Manage-link-previews-for-your-workspace)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The pdf of the book is [https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/landing.google.co...](https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/landing.google.com/en//sre/static/pdf/SRS.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER15> Is there a more digestible version of SRE concepts somewhere?

I'm just looking for an easier way to communicate core principles and concepts to my team without asking them to sink into 500 pages?

<comment><USER16> The books read quite easy. The first book is just stories from google; it doesn't really prescribe anything- it's a collection of people talking about what SRE means to them and also how it fits together with "devops".

The second book (the SRE workbook) is more prescriptive, walks through practical ways of implementing it.

The most base description of SRE principles is simply that:

1) You automate aggressively and develop or use self-service tools as much as possible (over ops work)

2) you define what "availability" really means; institute an allowance of errors based on budget. Highly reliable systems should get much more attention and budget than lower requirement systems. Make an SLO dashboard; alert based on your "error budget" being eaten too quickly.

3) try to avoid allowing your staff to work more than 50% on operations work; that's your indicator for being overloaded.

<comment><USER17> If somebody was in a hurry, which sections of which book should they start with?

<comment><USER18> SRE Book ([https://landing.google.com/sre/sre- book/toc/index.html](https://landing.google.com/sre/sre-book/toc/index.html)): Chapters 4, 5, 6, 17, 28, 29, 30, 31, 33, All the Appendixes

SRE Workbook ([https://landing.google.com/sre/workbook/toc/](https://landing.google.com/sre/workbook/toc/)): Chapters 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, All the Appendixes

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> The HN account of Ana Oprea (anaoprea), one of the authors of the book seems to be blocked. All comments below are marked dead. Probably because it is a new account with low karma rating or such.

Can any mod here restore the comments?

<comment><USER20> Seems visible now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Looking at the authors, this book would be more about security, rather than reliability.

<comment><USER2> This is correct. This is the third book in our SRE series. It's reliability through the lens of security.

Disclaimer: I work for Google

<comment><USER17> What is the focus of the others?

<comment><USER22> Much more general.

The first book is a solid overview of how Google does SRE and outlining each of the various concepts (error budgets, blameless culture, etc..). The second is more of a practical guide on deploying SRE into an organisation, a lessons learned type of book.

(I work for Google but not SRE, just enjoyed reading the books)

<comment><USER23> Why are 51% of your people contractors?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Any tips for the vast majority of SRE groups where people are paid a fraction of google employees and never given any time to fix things?

<comment><USER25> High pay is great, but doesn't make better software.

Do Googlers get time to fix things?

<comment><USER26> According to the first of the SRE books, engineers working under the SRE banner are expected to devote approximately 50% to operational activities and 50% to engineering intended to make the other 50% easier.

Given that the usual ration is 100% : -100%, 50:50 is going to be helpful in escaping capability traps.

<comment><USER27> It's actually "at most 50% on toil". But of course it's also hard to measure exactly. It's more of a barrier that if we exceed it, the team probably needs serious help!

Ultimately, Google engineers can move between teams pretty freely, so if we allow a team to descend into an operational or a deadline-induced death march, and we don't address that quickly, chances are the engineers will move to another team. It's sometimes frustrating not to have more control as a manager, but it's a very nicely self correcting mechanism and fixes various incentives for us managers.

(I'm a manager in Google SRE. Not speaking for Google.)

<comment><USER26> I like the idea of at least targeting a high fraction of total bandwidth for "making stuff better".

My reference to "capability traps" wasn't accidental, it's a serious risk to any business where maintenance and improvement has low observability vs production outputs[0]. In that situation economists rightly predict that effort is skewed towards what can be observed more easily ("equal compensation principle")[1].

Under those conditions it's easier to fix a time-spent target and observe time allocated, even if only approximately.

[0] [https://web.mit.edu/nelsonr/www/Repenning%3DSterman_CMR_su01...](https://web.mit.edu/nelsonr/www/Repenning%3DSterman_CMR_su01_.pdf)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal%E2%80%93agent_proble...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal%E2%80%93agent_problem#Contract_design)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Just looked through the ToC. There's quite a bunch of topics being covered here. Are there any recommended sections to focus on for someone with limited time that comes from a software engineering background? Thanks!

<comment><USER29> The Introduction chapters, then chapters from the Design and Implementation parts (depending on what your current focus is, one section might be more relevant than the other).

Copy/paste from the preface: "We recommend you start with Chapters 1 and 2, and then read the chapters that most interest you. Most chapters begin with a boxed preface or executive summary that outlines the following: • The problem statement • When in the software development lifecycle you should apply these principles and practices • The intersections of and/or tradeoffs between reliability and security to consider Within each chapter, topics are generally ordered from the most fundamental to the most sophisticated. We also call out deep dives and specialized subjects with an alligator icon."

(Book author here)

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Fascinating. No matter how badly Google fucks up, some people still need to worship them and lick their boots. Somebody should do a study about this phenomenon.

</comment><comment><USER31> What would be the equivalent trio of books for the SWE?

<comment><USER32> Google recently published the SWE Book: [https://www.amazon.com/dp/1492082791](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1492082791)

<comment><USER33> Have you read it? Just curious if you found it to be good because the only review for it wasn't very hopeful.

<comment><USER34> I'm looking for reviews as well. FWIW, there's a list of table of contents available here: [https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/software-engineering- at...](https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/software-engineering- at/9781492082781/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Looks like a valuable resource.

A bit surprised to see that in _Building Secure and Reliable Systems_ , as far as I can tell the word _reliable_ isn't given a precise definition, even when it's contrasted with security.

The preface opens with "Can a system ever truly be considered reliable if it isn't fundamentally secure?" but the terms don't seem to be clarified anywhere. It appears not to mean the same thing as service availability, given the section on the CIA triad.

Am I missing something terribly obvious?

</comment><comment><USER36> Hi, I want a physical copy. I went to see how much they were to ask HR to buy one for me and found it was $52 on Amazon! What's up with that?

<comment><USER37> That seems pretty reasonable to me for something like this, I just purchased it myself for $90 CAD, and generally I see these types books around the $100 CAD mark.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> In a somewhat cynic remark (and having nothing against the authors), I cannot think of a better timing to assuage someone about Google's competency after the numerous outgages in GCP these weeks. The "Compliments of Google Cloud" sticker on the cover makes sure to reinforce the association.

<comment><USER6> In a somewhat snarky reply, I can assure you that the book release was planned long in advance, unlike the outages. ;)

(disclaimer: I worked on the book)

<comment><USER38> Ah, sorry then, my bad.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> What does a lizard have to do with SRE?

<comment><USER2> Great question. As an O'Reilly author myself, I can tell you that we have no control over the animal selected. There's a fun animal selection process, but the publisher's decide.

Disclaimer - I work for Google and worked on this book.

<comment><USER40> Hey, at least you didn't get Cthulhu on the cover, like Andrew Lombardi's _WebSocket_.

<comment><USER41> Or Robert Seacord's Effective C

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> > In our experience, when you use a hardened data library such as > TrustedSqlString (see "SQL Injection Vulnerabilities: TrustedSqlString" on > page 252)

That is not my experience. Yes, the most simple SQL injection a newbie attacker would try, is running a query directly on your database using stuff like" ' OR '1' =='1' "

However, one can do a lot of other things like getting the schema, table names and the actual data in the tables by observing the answers and timing. When I did my master's degree, on the course about database security the teacher said there isn't any mean to 100% prevent SQL injection.

There are other means to protect data, like not using a single app user to access the database, use security rules at database level together with security rules at app level.

One clever trick is to return fake data if you detect a smart ass is trying to access data he shouldn't, rather then tell him he is forbidden. Let him enjoy his fake data. :)

<comment><USER43> _One clever trick is to return fake data if you detect a smart ass is trying to access data he shouldn 't, rather then tell him he is forbidden. Let him enjoy his fake data. :)_

That sounds like a lot of effort for something that should never happen if your real security systems are working, and a _huge_ problem if something breaks and returns fake data to real users. It would look like their accounts have been compromised which is _far_ worse for the business than any amount of enjoyment you might get messing with an attacker. Honeypots are useful in some very specific situations, but you need to be really careful where and how you implement them. Generally, leave them to the network security team.

In my experience _anything_ you do that tries to be 'clever' is a bad idea. Implement the simplest possible solution that solves the problem, otherwise it's going to blow up in your face one day.

<comment><USER44> It's also a big problem if the hack gained any publicity. Who's actually going to believe "no no, it was actually fake data that got stolen"?

<comment><USER42> It's not about making the attacker think the data is valid. It's about not letting him know whether the data is valid or not.

<comment><USER43> If the attacker doesn't know then no one will know, so when the dump gets uploaded to pastebin with the title "10,000 records from <your service>" and that gets reported in The Register everyone will believe it's a real breach. You would then be in the position where you have to persuade the public it isn't. That would be very difficult because no one would know whether the data is valid or not.

If that's the strategy you want to use that's up to you, but I think it's immensely risky and provides no practical benefit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> The title is very generic though, not indicating what type of systems. Like if I am working in embedded systems, should I read the book? I skimmed through a few pages, still no idea..

<comment><USER29> We define systems in the Preface: "In this book we talk generally about systems, which is a conceptual way of thinking about the groups of components that cooperate to perform some function. In our context of systems engineering, these components typically include pieces of software running on the processors of various computers. They may also include the hardware itself, as well as the processes by which people design, implement, and maintain the systems. Reasoning about the behavior of systems can be difficult, since they're prone to complex emergent behaviors."

(Book author here)

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! I just bought the first one. Just kidding. In my 'to buy' queue.

</comment><comment><USER47> By the way the story in chapter one about a smard-card was very amusing to read!

</comment><comment><USER48> "use containers" \- no no no - containers and kubernetes are horribly insecure and in a multi-tenant situation not even an option

great marketing google!

</comment><comment><USER48> another gem "ptrace sandboxing" ala gvisor which is horribly slow and shouldn't be used for production systems

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19924036](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19924036)

seriously - what is going on at google nowadays? has it always been like this?

</comment><comment><USER49> Ok

</comment><comment><USER50> A little ironic, but aren't parts of GCP down right now?

[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/08/google- ou...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/08/google-outage-hits- gmail-snapchat-and-nest)

EDIT: looks like this comment didn't resonate well with some readers.

<comment><USER51> You might argue that the Google SRE books are part of a recruiting strategy, and the GCP service creates a massive need to recruit more SRE.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I know it can happen to anyone and that every system will eventually go down no matter how many resources are spent or how smart you are. Heck, it might even be financially prudent to not chase those last 9s of uptime.

But r̶e̶l̶e̶a̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ posting this hours after a huge outage that affected most services for over an hour and also less than 12 days after a similar multi-hour outage seems somewhat ironic.

 __EDIT: __guess I hurt someone's feelings.

<comment><USER52> Upvoted since I was going to make the same comment. I have been dealing with some downfall from that issue today.

As a user of their cloud services, my perception of their reliability is pretty low compared to competitors. I still like GCP the best though.

<comment><USER53> > As a user of their cloud services, my perception of their reliability is > pretty low compared to competitors. I still like GCP the best though.

I guess we tend to notice more the flaws of the services we use the most

<comment><USER52> Not in this case. At work, we use AWS and GCP, everything that runs on top of Kubernetes is deployed on both clouds. If I isolate the number of service stopping incidents this year for that vertical, I can find 3 on GCP's side, and zero on AWS.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> Piotr and Anthony: any relations?

<comment><USER6>
      Le*v*andowski != Le*w*andowski

Seriously though, there is no relation that I am aware of. It's a very common surname in Poland (source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewandowski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewandowski)).

(I'm Piotr Lewandowski.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> The book has no value unless the goals and the lessons are internalized.

</comment><comment><USER23> Let me guess. Now trying to destroy careers of security folks and replace with bad practices from the mouths of managers at Google. Wow! Gee. I'll buy a paper copy and burn it. 99% of people here are not in Google's use case, so this info can not apply. Brag brag. If you didn't learn the lesson from last book, enjoy. I'm just amazed by Google's ability to run huge kubernetes clusters all on windows, with zero networking or Linux skills, I'm impressed.

<comment><USER56> Did you get rejected while Interviewing at Google? It's the only plausible explanation for the vitriol on your throwaway account.

<comment><USER23> Are you a Linux Systems Administrator? If not, stfu.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> I'm wondering if this has floated to the top of HN because of the recent GCP outages (both a few days ago and from this morning). I'm trying to figure out if this is coincidental or ironic.

NOTE: As a heavy user of GCP we we're affected by the three most recent outages (GCIC20005, GCIC20004, GCIC20003), but I definitely feel for those that were impacted.

<comment><USER11> Coincidence and irony aren't mutually exclusive. In any case, it's not surprising that free books about SRE have been noticed by HN users during a time of widescale quarantine.

<comment><USER57> I'm surprised by the down votes. I still find it intriguing that during an outage the SRE handbook floats to the top.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> I scanned the introduction, but failed to see any concrete information on the expertise of the authors on security. Can anybody speak to the expertise of the authors on security?

In particular, I am interested in specific projects or initiatives they directed or lead. The state of systems before and after these projects. If there were any long-term regressions after their involvement.

To be even more concrete if possible:

1\. What was the project and what would occur in the event of unmitigated compromise?

2\. What was the threat model?

        2a. Why was that the appropriate threat model given the possible outcomes?

3\. How did they validate that the project met its goals in mitigating the threats in the threat model?

4\. What level of resources would be necessary to compromise the systems they were trying to protect?

        4a. Would the system prevent compromise by a red team with a $1 Billion, $1 Million, $1000, $1 budget?

        4b. What resources did the red teams have?

Personal questions for the responder:

1\. Would you feel comfortable using the processes you have used in the past to develop a system where compromise would result in the loss of human life?

2\. If you answered yes, what project and process and why do you believe that it sufficient?

3\. If you answered no, do you have any first hand knowledge of systems that achieve that standard?

4\. What is the best system that you have first hand knowledge of that has achieved at least that standard? Is there a non-theoretical gold standard?

<comment><USER59> > "Would the system prevent compromise by a red team with a $1 Billion... > budget"

Are there any such systems deployed in the world today?

<comment><USER48> jp morgan chase has a security budget of $600M/yr

[https://www.secureworldexpo.com/industry-news/jpmorgan- chase...](https://www.secureworldexpo.com/industry-news/jpmorgan-chase- cybersecurity-budget)

<comment><USER58> That is red team + blue team. Also, it makes no claims as to the effectiveness of their systems, only how much they spent. Spending money does not mean spending money effectively, if anything declaring how good you are by how much you spent is anti-correlated with quality in almost everything e.g. "I spend by far the most money out of all my friends when repairing my car." is probably more of a sign that you are getting cheated rather than high quality repairs. The other point is you actually need to successfully defend against the attackers. If you have a $100M/yr red team budget that you use to run 100 $1M red team operations and every single one compromises your systems, that does not mean you need a $100M budget to breach the systems, it means you need $1M or less. You would need to successfully defend against all operations in the year to have any confidence that your defenses are comparable to your budget.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> Genuinely curious: What secure and reliable systems has Google built? Nothing really springs to mind.

Android, their most popular end-user product, is a security disaster [1].

Chrome, "the most secure browser in the world", has a huge list of serious vulnerabilities [2].

[1] [https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~drt24/papers/spsm- scoring.pdf](https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~drt24/papers/spsm-scoring.pdf)

[2] [https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability- list/vendor_id-1224...](https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability- list/vendor_id-1224/product_id-15031/opec-1/Google-Chrome.html)

<comment><USER11> You believe that Google Accounts, GMail, and GDrive are fundamentally insecure and unreliable? Compared to what?

<comment><USER60> You mean the same Google services running on top of data centers that the NSA had infiltrated and was monitoring for years?

<comment><USER11> You mean the same program that also "infiltrated" (I guess you take those companies at their word that they weren't cooperating) every other tech giant? Again, that's why I asked "Compared to what?" What is your favorite tech company, uninfiltrated by the NSA while also serving billions of users, whose SRE books would be more worthwhile?

<comment><USER60> Assuming that an answer to your question is even quantifiable (it isn't since you're asking me to prove nonexistence), how is it relevant to my original question?

The security failures that allowed the NSA to come in were comical. Deliberate choices that Google made are for the most part responsible for the Android fiasco. In fact, Google is one of the behemoths that put us all at -ever increasing- risk in the name of profit and so far have done precious little to reverse course [1].

[1] [https://seclists.org/dailydave/2020/q2/1](https://seclists.org/dailydave/2020/q2/1)

<comment><USER61> Can you suggest another company with the experience and expertise at this scale to go with the unbesmirched reputation needed to write an information and helpful book on this topic?</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Git 1.7.8 release notes - <AUTHOR> https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/12/2/316

<comment><USER2> > "mediawiki" remote helper can interact with (surprise!) MediaWiki with "git > fetch" & "git push".

Git never ceases to impress me ! I hate web-based wikis because they force their users to edit within a browser, so this one is very welcome.

<comment><USER3> Looks like this feature was a student project: see <https://github.com/Bibzball/Git-Mediawiki/wiki></comment></comment>


$300 Home-Brew Street-View Camera - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/the-300-home-brew-street-view-camera/

<comment><USER2> $300 is about the right price point for a workable car-surveilance system. I'd like to have something to make a record of:

        - People who hit your parked car with their doors
        - Police walking up to your window to talk with you
          (No voice recording, of course.)
        - Interactions with other cars & traffic signals

The 3rd one bears some explaining: I would like a record of what is happening because people in an accident often flat-out _lie_. I hate that. Also, I want my own evidence pertaining to traffic lights. If traffic lights can have cameras, I want my own photographic record of the lights!

<comment><USER3> Maybe in the future the Police could give you a commission for selling them footage of traffic violations. _evil laugh_

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure if you'd have to pay some people to report things like like 'going slow in the passing lane', 'tailgating' or other annoying and dangerous driving. Heck I'd like to be able to perform a citizens arrest on people for not indicating.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> From the IEEE source [1] it says that he bought $25 web cams for the project (apparently MSRP$75). I doubt the side-facing cameras get any type of picture quality at all at 30mph, let alone 62. (Update: motion is _extremely_ blurry at high resolution [2]).

Also, from the IEEE article "I wrote a Python script to capture the eight 1280-by-1024 JPEG files. That capture takes about 8 seconds." That results in 8 non-synchronus pictures, taken at 8 second intervals.

At 30mph (44 feet per second), eight seconds is a 352 foot gap—a standard block in Manhattan is about 264 by 900 feet [3], which leaves you _one capture every 1.3 blocks_ on the short streets.

Interesting way to make a 360 degree camera. Completely unreasonable for a 360 degree camera _in motion_.

.

[1][http://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/hands-on/diy- streetview-c...](http://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/hands-on/diy-streetview- camera/0)

[2][http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=232323867291121678&#...
[3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_block

<comment><USER6> Mount the whole thing on the top of a broomstick with a switch on the bottom. Walk, set the stick down (activating the switch), hold it still, waiting 8 seconds (maybe the PC could make a sound when the capture is complete), and walk on. You could map out a reasonably sized neighborhood in an afternoon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> The OpenStreetMap project does stuff like this:

They've just started stitching together aerial shots from small planes into flat "satellite" images that they can trace map features from. (Yahoo also lets them trace some of theirs, and the bought some for coverage in Palestine but this lets them fill in the gaps):

[http://www.cloudsourced.com/2009/09/22/openstreetmap- takes-t...](http://www.cloudsourced.com/2009/09/22/openstreetmap-takes-to-the- skies-above-stratford/)

Flickr just announced that you can associate photos with streets, buildings etc in openstreetmap via machine tags:

[http://code.flickr.com/blog/2009/09/28/thats-maybe-a-bit- too...](http://code.flickr.com/blog/2009/09/28/thats-maybe-a-bit-too-dorky- even-for-us/)

There is an OpenStreetView but they've only just started, not much more than a domain:

<http://openstreetview.org/>

</comment><comment><USER8> Eyes in the back of your head!</comment>


Level up your VsVim - <AUTHOR> https://fuqua.io/blog/2017/08/level-up-your-vsvim/ <comment><USER2> Does anyone have experience with Vim modes in non-vim editors, VS or otherwise? I've been considering maybe moving to something with a GUI for a while, but I can't imagine ever abandoning vim-style modal editing for anything other than maybe kakuone-style modal editing. Does the various vim plugins do what you want them to do? How well do they support more advanced Vim features like text objects, marks, mappings and macros? How well do they support Ex-commands like :s// or :g//?

<comment><USER3> I tried Vim bindings in Atom for about five minutes before the inconsistencies pushed me back to regular Vim (this was back when I started learning).

I switched to emacs/evil-mode a while ago (maybe 7-8 months into using Vim) and I've really enjoyed it. Evil does everything I want (at least that I know I want). There _are_ unsupported features, but not ones I'm familiar with.

Text objects are supported and the ports of commentary and surround have worked great as well. Marks and macros are fully supported.

I much prefer emacs-style remapping, and there is a package, vim-leader, that gives you a nice way to define leader mappings.

I can't speak for :g// (don't really use it and on a phone at the moment so I can't check) but :s// works well.

My overall opinion is that vim-style editing is second to only rolling your own modal editing style (there is an emacs package that lets you do that, I believe) and that emacs as a host editor _for_ that editing is hard to best as well. To be fair, I'm a really big fan of Lisp, so that's also part of the draw for me. Magit is something else to try out as well. In my opinion, it's much better than fugitive.</comment></comment>


Beautiful Code – When was the last time you marveled at a piece of code? - <AUTHOR> http://nvie.com/posts/beautiful-code/?utm_content=buffer19631&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

<comment><USER2> I marveled at my own solution to a Challenge Question, but the CTO didn't even look at my source, he passed it to his engineer who found that it failed test. That meant that I was not invited in for an on-site interview.

What gets me down is that I had a partial solution that would have passed all the tests had I persisted, but I felt that it was stylistically poor so I rewrote the entire thing from scratch. That would have worked but by writing the entire program twice, I didn't leave myself enough time for adequate testing.</comment>


Believing widely doubted conspiracy theories satisfies a need to feel special - <AUTHOR> https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/09/01/believing-widely-doubted-conspiracy-theories-makes-some-people-feel-special/ <comment><AUTHOR> Original title, edited for length: 'Believing widely doubted conspiracy theories satisfies some people's need to feel special'</comment>


What the future of education will look like - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/david_perell/status/1228873220167753728 <comment><USER2> Completely agree with his points here. What I see is an online education platform is going to be the disruptor here. The ba, ma, PhD will be disrupted by this platform. This platform does not exist yet....but when it comes it will be something like Netflix which people don't take serious at first, traditional academics will tell you why traditional University is better but young people will flock to it and the final capitulation will occur when employers accept this platform's credentials over traditional degree. This will occur because students learned valuable skills that employers want.</comment>


Why DAGs Are Overrated - <AUTHOR> https://danieljaouendevelopment.com/?p=68 <comment><USER2> I've been thinking for a long time about the question of why production rules and logic programming are less popular than they are, and one of them is much like what you point out: if the parts of your program form a graph that is assembled by the runtime/compiler, each node (roughly a line of code in a normal programming language) has to be annotated with enough information to find the nodes it connects with -- much of which is implicit in the structure of a normal sequential program.</comment>


Tell President Obama to support the Federal Research Public Access Act - <AUTHOR> http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=966

<comment><USER2> Note that Elsevier has vowed to oppose this: [http://lj.libraryjournal.com/2012/02/legislation/elsevier- ba...](http://lj.libraryjournal.com/2012/02/legislation/elsevier-backs-off- rwa-support-still-opposes-mandated-open-access/) This is the very essence of a Big Company trying to hold on to its outdated business model which is in fact a direct threat to public good.

Signed and forwarded to lots of friends in the Academic community.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> For the lazy, here is the petition: <http://wh.gov/04u>

Yes, we all know that online Whitehouse petitions won't have as much effect as calling/writing your congressional representatives. But this is such a 'niche' issue that I could imagine something as small as a this having a real effect.

But call/write too, if you are so inclined!

</comment><comment><USER3> I just signed the petition. If nothing else, it was very satisfying.

<comment><USER4> That's what the petition system is for.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I was very excited but doubtful until I noticed "Tell" in the title.</comment>


Cool tool to check your DNS propogation across the globe - <AUTHOR> http://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/news.ycombinator.com

<comment><USER2> DNS doesn't actually "propogate" geographically, though. It just gets cached and discarded.</comment>