IPad Now Available Thru Amazon - <AUTHOR> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00365F6EG?tag=samiqbits-20 <comment><USER2> It's just not as cool to buy from Amazon as from Apple.

<comment><AUTHOR> but it's easier ;) ... just one click away which works better for lots of ppl which will translate to new customers for ur app and as an added value it's tax free in most states

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Comes with a samiq affiliate link free of charge!

<comment><AUTHOR> I think this is a new step towards commoditization of the ipad and a step forward in making it wildly available before the wave of android-base tablets makes it there first.

Points for amazon getting this deal as this means pretty much a new level of customers for our apps.

That's why I shared it.

BTW I didn't know it was against the hn rulz to add ur referral to news... as every single tech blog and news outlet out there is pasting their own tags on the link... and yes it was free of charge :)</comment></comment>


Foursquare Closes $20 Million Series B  - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/29/foursquare-20-million/ <comment><USER2> Not to be a hater or be a potential-Twitter-doubter, and my thoughts about the product aside, what do these guys need $20 million for? The only exit for a company like FourSquare is a buyout, and is someone really going to pay $30m or $40m for FourSquare?

<comment><USER3> engineers.

marc andreessen did a talk a few months ago at Stanford (get it at ecorner.stanford.edu) where he talks about how the mobile app market looks a lot like the early days of boxed software - a million half-decent attempts but nothing really amazing.

and then came microsoft.

the world of mobile apps seems at present to be an arms race and most of that $20m is likely going to be spent on the guns and bombs of the tech world: great engineers.

<comment><USER4> The last time this company was acquired, it was called Dodgeball. Google bought the talent, canned the project, and then the founders quit and reimplemented it under a different name (Foursquare.) I'd be wary of buying the company for the engineers after an outcome like that.

<comment><USER5> Maybe you wouldn't worry if you were buying the product to develop it and were not planning on throwing it in the closet to wither. I think Dennis was under the impression that they would continue developing the project, not just paying for his talent.

The foursquare guys really do believe in the idea. If I had what I thought to be a great idea, and someone canned it and told me to do some other work, I would quit and start over too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The ascent of foursquare is a big win for Scala and Lift too, given that it's probably the most high profile Lift/Scala project out there.</comment>


512GB MicroSD card on sale in July - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnet.com/news/microdia-will-sell-a-1000-ish-512gb-microsd-come-july/ <comment><USER2> That's cool, but microSDs are usually pretty slow and have low long term endurance (their speeds drop by a significant margin after you use them for a bit). I'd like to see higher reliability and faster speeds that are close to matching the speeds of internal flash storage in mobile. Adopting UFS 2.0 should be a priority over increasing the size.

I'd also like to see microSDs adopt an open source file system such as F2FS and dump the patent-encumbered FAT32/exFAT. Yeah, Microsft won't take that lying down, but if all microSD makers and device makers start pushing for it, I'm sure Microsoft will eventually support an open source file system - it is the "new" open-sourcing-loving Microsoft we're talking about, after all!

<comment><USER3> At least 64 GB Samsung Pro microSDXC card can write about 70-80 MB/s, read 90MB/s. But most other cards are really slow, cheap ones can write just 2-10 MB/s.</comment></comment>


Will making a program a freeware destroy its hopes of getting acquired? - <AUTHOR> The obfuscated full-featured program will be downloadable from the web.
License will stipulate that it is freeware only if used in a non-commercial nature.
Should I worry that prospective acquirers will not consider buying over the software?
Will they think "There's no point acquiring the rights to it since crackers may reverse engineer it or prospective customers may just use it illegally"? <comment><USER2> If someone will want to buy your software, they'll be looking to buy it for a multiply of revenues. As long as you're selling the software and can prove that to the buyer, the buyer shouldn't care about secondary aspects like cracking or illegal use.

That being said, if that's your main concern then don't do it. Implement a trial period or ship demo version with limited functionality.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks.</comment></comment>


Bartz resigns from Yahoo's board of directors - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/11/bartz-resigns-from-yahoos-board/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Venturebeat+%28VentureBeat%29 <comment><AUTHOR> Oh please be true! Won't it be great if a CEO didn't make a fortune leaving a company worse off than when they found it?</comment>


Moths That Drive Cars - <AUTHOR> http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/05/08/182312510/moths-that-drive-cars-really

<comment><USER2> Am I the only one not amazed by this?

Moths can walk. The scientist simply switched what the moth thought was ground with a trackball.

The moth walked to the pheromone as it normally would have.

</comment><comment><USER3> > This is the first time I've heard of an insect running (or driving) a robot.

I could swear I saw a similar project once that used cockroaches.

Edit: Found it. <http://vimeo.com/m/2398096>

<comment><USER4> And the reverse-- remote controlled cockroaches :)

[http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57509894-1/eek-remote- co...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57509894-1/eek-remote-controlled- cyborg-cockroaches-are-real/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is fascinating. Perhaps better than engineering highly sensitive scent sensor devices, breeding moths or other small animals and using their natural abilities as a portion of a larger device could be more effective or economical.

<comment><USER6> Might have to replace your "sensors" a lot, since I'm pretty sure most moths only live for a a fortnight or so.

<comment><USER7> That's longer than the batteries might last.

<comment><USER8> Except you can't kill a battery with a can of Raid.

Maybe large insect repellant purchases will be enough to get a warrant.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon></comment>


Android multiple layout directory considered harmful - <AUTHOR> http://blog.scaloid.org/2013/02/android-multiple-layout-directory.html

<comment><USER2> The answer for buttons in multiple layouts is to factor out common parts of a layout. That is, before adding a button to several layout files, find the big chunks of layout shared by multiple variants and create a single layout file for each significant chunk.

Now you have one place to modify.

What's REALLY harmful is code that goes like this:

if (portrait) orientation = VERTICAL

That is guaranteed to be wrong on some device. The road to that inner ring of hell where testing on dozens of devices is a vain quest for "good" code that makes decisions about layout is paved with code like this.

But if you let the Android system choose among layout files, the chances for a pathological decision about layout are greatly reduced.</comment>


Show HN: Blidder 2.0 – Instagram and Twitter Scheduler - <AUTHOR> http://blidder.com <comment><USER2> Looks good! How did you get access to the Instagram API? We partner with Buffer for this right now as it was in a closed BETA</comment>


Show HN: News Monitoring API - <AUTHOR> https://datanews.io/monitoring <comment><AUTHOR> Hi all, this is the side project that I am currently working on. Datanews Monitoring API gathers hundreds of thousands news articles per day and allows you to easily monitor them for keywords you are interested in. Essentially, I see several main use cases here, such as keyword tracking, discovering new trends, gathering general statistics about news segments of interest (e.g. finding stats about authors), collecting large amount of news articles for data analysis or ML training. The retrieved articles also contain all metadata with them, like url, description, title, authors, image url, etc. There is also a client library for it, so you could get a grasp of the API in several lines of code. I would appreciate any comments/suggestions/problems about the service or maybe about a problem you have, that this service could probably help you in solving. Thank you!</comment>


Goodbye from Linux Action News - <AUTHOR> https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/140977/goodbye-from-linux-action-news/ <comment><AUTHOR> More context it seems:

@JoeRessington 9:13 AM · Apr 9, 2020

> Yesterday my contract with JB/LA/AGC was terminated with immediate effect. > The reason they gave was "gross misconduct". I said "cunt" in front of my > team who I thought were my friends. It turns out that one of them wasn't my > friend. I won't be naming names.

[0] [https://twitter.com/JoeRessington/status/1248282904729395203](https://twitter.com/JoeRessington/status/1248282904729395203)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is unfortunate and unexpected. I enjoyed this podcast.

</comment><comment><USER2> Same for the "Choose Linux" podcast.</comment>


Ask HN: Monitoring tools for LAMP server? - <AUTHOR>

I'm a Fullstack dev at an SMB, we have currently one rackspace server to service our sites (a lot of it is static content).<p>I'm currently the only one who can manage with a terminal, so the server management stuff falls on me at the moment. Rackspace has plenty of health monitoring tools, but I would like something that allows me to go through PHP/MySQL/Apache logs. Preferably something a la jenkins, where after some config work it's as simple as logging in and users can peruse logs. For the moment it's one server, but I do need support for multiple Virtual Hosts. <comment><USER2> Found [http://goaccess.io/](http://goaccess.io/) just this morning. Helped me find someone scraping the site from Jamaica this morning causing 3gb in data transfer.

<comment><AUTHOR> This looks great, and really lightweight. No support for PHP/MySQL log that I can see, but it's a good start

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Try New Relic. There's a free tier. They have server and service monitoring with monitoring & instrumentation plugins for whatever stack you use (e.g. there are plugins for PHP, MySQL and Apache). You'll have a nice web interface the non-terminal folks might even be able to use to monitor performance, error rates, and go deep into individual sessions/stack traces when needed.

<comment><AUTHOR> Woa! New Relic looks great. Two downsides that I see is having a binary on my system and the web interface isn't self-hosted...

On the plus side, looks like I get a free upgrade because I'm using Rackspace. However, I get the feeling that they haven't tested it a lot using Windows 8.1 with 1600x900 resolution in Firefox (but I'll submit a screenshot to them)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If you're just interesting in combing through the logs, you might want to look at loggly.com

Definitely give New Relic a try, they're pretty popular these days.

Splunk is also an option, but is geared more for the enterprise. Might be overkill here.

No matter what you choose, just remember to monitor your load closely, any of these kinds of additions can surprise you with the amount of processing-power they can take up.

</comment><comment><USER5> I've used this in the past: [https://github.com/afaqurk/linux- dash](https://github.com/afaqurk/linux-dash)

Doesn't offer logs, but shouldn't be too difficult to implement.

Edit: See demo here - [http://linuxdash.afaqtariq.com/demo.html](http://linuxdash.afaqtariq.com/demo.html)

</comment><comment><USER6> Loggly has a new relic chrome extension that lets you correlate matching logs (in Loggly) to performance errors (in New Relic). If that's interesting, you can find out more info here: [https://www.loggly.com/docs/new-relic- extension/](https://www.loggly.com/docs/new-relic-extension/)

</comment><comment><USER7> Have you looked at loginsight? It's a VMware product. I believe BMC's patrol also does log monitoring. These seem to be more enterprise tools, I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for.</comment>


Mireo SpaceTime – an absurdly fast spatiotemporal database - <AUTHOR> https://blog.mireo.hr/mireo-spacetime-an-absurdly-fast-spatiotemporal-database <comment><USER2> Very cool! I'm particularly interested in this section:

> SpaceTime database is built on a unique, multidimensional data index that > automatically adapts to mutable and possibly highly skewed data distribution > (which is usually the case with data coming from moving objects). There is > one single multi-columnar index which indexes all associated columns of > records at once. There are no secondary indices!

> The physical model intertwines index and record data – as a consequence, > records that are logically close (based on id, position and timestamp) are > at the same time also physically close. In turn, this maximizes the > throughput of disk reads.

> The main ideas for inventing SpaceTime index came from several inspiring > scientific papers. It is similar to the kd-tree family of indices, but with > two major improvements: first, the index tree in SpaceTime is built using > the bottom-up approach (as opposed to the top-down kd-tree construction) and > second, the process of index creation adapts to particular space-time > distribution of data. Kd-trees work well on a large scale only with static > datasets; our bottom-up approach overcomes this.

Can you provide links to the scientific papers that were mentioned?

Are there any plans to publish a more detailed description of SpaceTime's index data structure and algorithm?

<comment><USER3> Hi, thanks for the interest! Yes, we are planning to publish more details about the novel index structure, so feel free to visit [https://blog.mireo.hr/](https://blog.mireo.hr/) every 2 weeks.

Very soon we will also launch a live demo with 200,000 vehicles, so you'll be able to try SpaceTime capabilities on your own :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Can you give some example of "MSQL" query?

<comment><USER3> Of course. MSQL queries can be as simple as "select * from st.trips", but can also include geospatial functions that we implemented and that are not part of standard SQL: "select vid, sum(sphere_length(x[0], y[0], x[1], y[1])) as mileage from st.segments where ST_Intersects( ST_GeomFromText('POLYGON ((11955008 38520960,11995328 38530624,11998976 38531456,11955008 38520960))'), ST_Line(x[0], y[0], x[1], y[1]) ) and t[0] >= 1569888000 and t[1] < 1572566400 and vid >= 3200 and vid <= 3300 group by vid"

Actually, a query very similar to the one listed above generates the report mileage-in-area mentioned in the blog.</comment></comment>


He wrote the future: On Arthur C. Clarke's centenary - <AUTHOR> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v541/n7637/full/541286a.html <comment><USER2> I met Arthur C. Clarke once. He told me a joke. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NEh8nspzXw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NEh8nspzXw)

<comment><USER3> VERY fun, short and SFW clip.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Clarke made a TV series in the UK called "Arthur C. Clarkes Mysterious World". If you've never heard of it, I highly recommend you check it out!

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke's_Mysteriou...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke's_Mysterious_World)

<comment><USER5> I loved that program when it first came out because of the episode that mentioned vitrified forts - which are still (AFAIK) a complete mystery:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitrified_fort](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitrified_fort)

I also love the account of the meeting that Clarke, C.S. Lewis and Tolkien had in a pub:

 _" An extensive correspondence with Dr. Lewis led to the a meeting in a famous Oxford pub, the Eastgate. Seconding me was my friend, Val Cleaver, a space buff from way back (and now chief engineer of the Rolls Royce Rocket Division). Supporting Lewis was Professor J. R. R. Tolkien, whose trilogy, The Lord of the Rings created a considerable stir a few years ago. Needless to say, neither side converted the other, and we refused to abandon our diabolical schemes of interplanetary conquest. But a fine time was had by all, and when, some hours later, we emerged a little unsteadily from the Eastgate, Dr. Lewis's parting words were "I'm sure you are very wicked people – but how dull it would be if everyone was good."_

<comment> at-fates-hands >> and now chief engineer of the Rolls Royce Rocket Division

Did I read that right? Rolls Royce had/has a rocket division?

<comment><USER5> Turns that Val Cleaver was quite an interesting chap:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Cleaver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Cleaver)

"he became general manager and chief engineer of the Rolls Royce's rocket departments, where he was responsible for the engines which powered the Blue Streak missile and Black Arrow launch vehicle"

Sadly the UK did have our own launch capability - but we only ever launched one satellite - Prospero:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospero_(satellite)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospero_\(satellite\))

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Clarke had such a positive view of humanity. I've read all of his novels and I don't think that he ever had a villian character.

<comment><USER7> I love his work. He's by leaps and bounds my favorite sci-fi author ever. His optimism remains unparalleled.

It's a measure of how much darker the world has turned recently that I've started in the last few years to think of ACC as perhaps a bit naive. Or maybe he was just too far ahead of the times? That's an optimist thought - albeit a long-term one.

<comment><USER8> ironically, the first author i have been inclined to call "the new clarke" is liu cixin, based on the anything-but-optimistic "death's end" trilogy. still has a very clarke-like feel, but dark.

<comment><USER7> > _a very clarke-like feel, but dark_

I've no idea how that is even possible :) so I'll have to read something by that author to figure out what you mean.

<comment><USER8> check out "the three body problem"; it has a very clarke-like sense of wonder tinged with both optimism and melancholy, and the same blend of science and "magic science", but it also adds a dark feel that is nothing like clarke.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> at-fates-hands interesting article about a guy who snuck into his house and what they found:

We Snuck Into Arthur C. Clarke's Home, And. .(2013) : [http://asiaobscura.com/2013/11/sifting-through-arthur-c- clar...](http://asiaobscura.com/2013/11/sifting-through-arthur-c-clarkes-dvd- collection-in-colombo.html)

<comment><USER2> Thanks for posting that. I interviewed Arthur C. Clarke at his house (see joke above), so it was cool to see it again.

<comment> at-fates-hands I did see that, really good stuff.

He seemed like he was quite lucid and articulate, even in his later years. I bet he has a ton of stories he could tell. . .

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> _Arthur C. Clarke: A Life Remembered_ is a good read for those who want to learn more about Arthur Clarke's life. It features lots of photos and stories about Clarke from his brother and other associates. Here's a review of it [1]

[1] [ [http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=29276](http://www.centauri- dreams.org/?p=29276) ]

</comment><comment><USER10> If I only have time to read three, which ones would you suggest?

</comment><comment><USER11> Dec 16, 1917</comment>


PyOpenCL lets you access the OpenCL parallel computation API from Python - <AUTHOR> http://mathema.tician.de/software/pyopencl <comment><USER2> Doesn't seem to support Windows (doesn't build, not even with mingw32+boost)

<comment><USER3> Check the mailing list - it's been made to build with MSVC2008 and the ATI Stream SDK beta that includes a CPU-only implementation of OpenCL.</comment></comment>


Announcing Core ML Support in TensorFlow Lite - <AUTHOR> https://developers.googleblog.com/2017/12/announcing-core-ml-support.html <comment><USER2> For those that do not want to click.

> On November 14th, we announced the developer preview of TensorFlow Lite, > TensorFlow's lightweight solution for mobile and embedded devices.

> Today(Dec.5th), in collaboration with Apple, we are happy to announce > support for Core ML! With this announcement, iOS developers can leverage the > strengths of Core ML for deploying TensorFlow models. In addition, > TensorFlow Lite will continue to support cross-platform deployment, > including iOS, through the TensorFlow Lite format (.tflite) as described in > the original announcement.

Support for Core ML is provided through a tool that takes a TensorFlow model and converts it to the Core ML Model Format (.mlmodel).</comment>


Viewing Angle and Distance in Computer Workstations (1994) - <AUTHOR> http://www.allscan.ca/ergo/vangle.htm <comment><USER2> Those preferred viewing angles from Hill and Kroemer ( [http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00140138608967228](http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00140138608967228) ?) seem distinctly low. My uneducated guess is that those results, from people asked to use computer workstations in 1986, probably reflect hunt-and-peck typists' need to move their eyes frequently between keyboard and screen. That leaves you in basically the same situation as a seated touchscreen user or seated pen-and-paper draughtsman, for whom a diagonally sloped work surface is the best compromise between the near-vertical viewing angle of a cinema screen and the need to see your hands while avoiding gorilla arm. (While the dead- level surface of most modern desks is mostly optimised for piling crap on.) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8444990](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8444990) For touch typing I assume that a more cinema-like viewing angle is better.

<comment><USER3> These days, though, there's an odd mix of typists, because everyone is self taught, and most people have begun typing as soon as they learn how to read and write.

Both touch typing and hunt and peck typing are in severe decline. Mobile devices have created all kinds of mutants, and no one gives a shit about " _the home row_ " anymore. I watch those old videos about posture and training oneself to type without looking at the keyboard by typing endless garbage over and over, and I have to laugh, because I've never seen anything less important seem like such obvious brainwashing.

<comment><USER4> >because I've never seen anything less important seem like such obvious brainwashing.

I take it you're not a touch typist? What kind of wpm do you get?

<comment><USER3> WPM is an archaic metric, and as my top speed I target only a reasonable conversational pace in chat windows, comparable to verbal conversation. Anything more is kind of a waste. As long as people don't feel like my pace of typing is lagging during a chat, I don't really need to be much faster than that.

I don't have a problem meeting those demands, and composing my thoughts, and contemplating what I wish to type usually consumes more time than the act of typing itself.

Bandwidth measured in bytes probably makes more sense these days. But again, I haven't bothered to measure how fast I type, other than a gut intuition for how often I get sniped in chat rooms, when people beat me and say something before I can, alongside how impatient people seem to get with me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Key findings:

 _" Every one of the subjects ... judged the eye to screen distance of 20 inches to be too close. All accepted a 40 inch distance. Grandjean reported an average preferred viewing distance of 30 inches ... the closer the object, the more downward people wanted to look. When the target was 40 inches away, the preferred viewing angle was -30 degrees. When the target was moved in to 20 inches, the downward preference increased to -38 degrees. The head was not permitted to move during these tests, so the downward gaze angle was caused solely by movement of the eyes."_

In a multi-monitor system, each monitor can have a different distance and font size, to avoid the eye being locked into a single focal distance for many hours. In a single-monitor system, vary the distance between user/keyboard and monitor.

<comment><USER5> That's fine for young people. But at age 65, my eyes do not have the ability yours may to focus at a variety of different distances.

I use and recommend a pair of single vision computer glasses. These are adjusted to let my eyes focus on a screen 20" away, which happens to be my viewing distance for a laptop in normal use. My eyes are completely relaxed when viewing a screen at that distance.

I could have picked any other distance, like the farther distances discussed in the article, but then I would be stuck at that viewing distance. I wouldn't be able to use a laptop display at all but would have to always use an external display placed farther away.

Since I do want to be able to use the laptop all by itself, e.g. when traveling, I had my glasses made for that 20" laptop viewing distance.

So when I use a second monitor alongside my main laptop display (like the portrait mode 24" 4K monitor I use next to my high-DPI ThinkPad or MacBook at my home office), that monitor _must_ be close to the same 20" distance, or it will be out of focus and I won't be able to use it comfortably.

<comment><AUTHOR> Have you seen magnetic reader clip-ons where the additional lens is custom made and positioned to match the curve of your distance lens?

[https://buychemistrie.com](https://buychemistrie.com)</comment></comment></comment>


Ive Lost my Faith in Apple - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/all-things-apple/654703f2fe4b

<comment><USER2> I hadn't heard about medium.com until today, but now I know it's a blog for whiny know-it-all "designers"!

>"When notifications are present, however, that same action opens the corresponding app. So, we must either learn to swipe from the very bottom or risk opening the wrong application from time to time."

Isn't this how it works now? Why does this require learning a new behavior?

>"The new Mail icon is particularly horrid. I'm happy they simplified it, removing the sky backdrop, but the gradient is all wrong."

What does this mean? Excuse my ignorance but how can a gradient be "all wrong"?

Combined with cullenmacdonald's comments, I fail to see a single substantive argument here...

</comment><comment><USER3> > Their flat buttons give little information on their state, the sliders are > incredibly small...

What? The states are literally black and white...

Also, the volume slider is the same size as the old "double tap home button and then swipe right twice."

</comment><comment><USER4> "Ive". Pun intended?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes.</comment></comment>


Shade Ransomware Decryptor can now decrypt over 750K victims - <AUTHOR> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/shade-ransomware-decryptor-can-now-decrypt-over-750k-victims/ <comment><AUTHOR> The Troldesh folks (developers of Shade Ransomware) closed up shop and decided to release the keys for 750k victims.

This article is a follow up, as Kaspersky has developed a tool to allow ease of decryption.

Previous article of the team closing up shop: [https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/shade- ransomw...](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/shade-ransomware- shuts-down-releases-750k-decryption-keys/)</comment>


Ask HN: Anyone had experience with "feature creep" prior to launch? - <AUTHOR> I've got a product I'm yet to launch, and am already finding myself overwhelmed by different things that it could do.  They're all super cool additions that enhance the original function, but I'm worried about the initial iteration being too convoluted upon launch.<p>Has anyone had experiences with packing tons of features into a product before going out?  I only ask because the whole "feature creep" thing is usually contained to products that are already out there.  I couldn't find much advice online regarding if best to go meaty or lean when when going to market. <comment><USER2> Yes. Nearly every time. Don't do it.

A product that has users is better than one that doesn't. It is harder to explain to users what a fat product does than a lean product. It is harder for users to understand a fat product. It takes more effort to maintain and improve a fat product than a lean one. These are all costs, not benefits.

"Launched" is a feature, probably the most important feature you can have. If it turns out that you launch it and nobody cares, you can always add more features and launch it again.

<comment><USER3> "If it turns out that you launch it and nobody cares, you can always add more features and launch it again."

Or reconsider your approach/market research if nobody uses it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Generally speaking: Your time is better spent making the core-offering better, vs adding a bunch of extraneous features.

If you're going to beat the competition at (whatever it is you're doing), it will likely be because you do _one_ thing very very well...not because you do 20 things so-so. When you pack on too many features pre-launch you become the tech-equivalent of the donut shop who also sells Chinese food, smoothies, burgers and breakfast sandwiches (you do a lot of things, but you do them poorly).

You can totally add on more features later, but don't do it at the expense of your core offering. And if your core offering is done, then there's no reason not to launch right now.

So in summary: Build the core first, launch it as soon as it's ready, then add more features later...especially after your customers start telling you what features they want!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Makes a bunch of sense.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Everyone is inclined towards adding features; it's just in our nature I suppose. The experienced folks know how to exert discipline in this area so that you aren't working on vaporware.

Eric S. Raymond said it best back in the day: "Release Early, Release Often"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often)

I personally like to say, "Ship and Iterate."

</comment><comment><USER6> First off, there's the "you ain't gonna need it" philosophy [0]. And secondly, how do you know they're "super cool" additions? Talk to your users and let them decide how valuable these features are.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_aren%27t_gonna_need_it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_aren%27t_gonna_need_it)</comment>


Snowdin: the elf that leaked the naughty list - <AUTHOR> http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/snowdin-the-elf-who-leaked-th.html <comment><USER2> "Snowdin"?

Was he trying to refer to Edward _Snowden_?

Or is his brain _snowed in_?</comment>


Show HN: Catching hold of users "likely" to bounce off a website - <AUTHOR> http://blog.webengage.com/2013/11/06/introducing-leave-intent-based-targeting-now-convert-users-exiting-your-website-pounce-on-bounce/

<comment><USER2> I think this is a nice alternative to the hideous window.onbeforeunload popups. However, the popup animation is very slow, I would say just flip the css display to block for an instant pop. And because the popups are at the bottom, they're easily missed.

</comment><comment><USER3> This might be cool from a js side, but isnt it really scummy to shoot out a pop up when someone is about to leave?

Maybe its just a pop-under or something to that effect... but gross.

<comment><AUTHOR> You are right about the obtrusion part hobs. But then the whole idea behind this was to add more "targeting" layers make the end solution more relevant to the user trying to exit - so, e.g, you can choose to ONLY implement this solution for your SEM traffic. Ain't that cool for marketers spending a whole lot of money to get users on their websites?</comment></comment>


Less Than 1 Year Until The Internet Runs Out of Addresses - <AUTHOR> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/less_than_1_year_until_the_internet_runs_out_of_addresses.php <comment><USER2> The world isn't going to end when we "run out of IPv4 addresses", because it can't: a huge portion of all the world's networking software can't deal with IPv6 addresses and can't be forklifted out.

The train has already left the station on NAT; end-users (and components in the "internet of things") expect transient addresses, and large-scale apps are designed so that rendezvous points are the only things that need fixed addressing.

Meanwhile, we'll eventually hit a point of scarcity with IPv4 addresses where allocations will stop being political and become market-driven instead.

Finally, all talk about a shangri-la of direct v6 addressing ignores the fact that no matter how quickly ISPs adopt the protocols, and even after the majority of Internet software that end-users demand are ported to handle v6 addressing, BGP routing still isn't going to scale to individual direct addresses. What's the current situation on prefix filtering at the major ISPs? How easy is it to get a /24 (even) portable?

<comment><USER3> Here's a link to think about:

[http://www.circleid.com/posts/20090609_verizon_mandates_ipv6...](http://www.circleid.com/posts/20090609_verizon_mandates_ipv6_support_for_next_gen_cell_phones/)

"The device shall support IPv6. The device may support IPv4"

This is requirements for the LTE devices from Verizon. Of course all the devices being linux-based, I expect dualstack for quite some time.

As for provider-independent addresses, I understand you should be able to get /48: <http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-483.html>

As for the Locator-ID split problem (which what the BGP scaling problem is about), there are a number of experiments going on at the moment. LISP (<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-farinacci-lisp>) is one of them. There was a few more but with less memorable names (edit: memorable for me. because I did hear more about LISP)

Of course the world is not going to end. It will just start developing an ever increasing slice of IPv6-only, whereas IPv4 growth is bounded.

Google, Facebook, YouTube, Netflix are already IPv6-enabled. This is "The Internet" for your average mom and pop consumer type. And maintaining the NATs with the few million hosts behind is a bit of work. So I would not be surprised if a cheaper "IPv6-only internet" options might emerge.

Full disclosure: my day job is at cisco. And untangling the creative NAT configurations and bugs caused by them has paid my bills for the past 10 years. Everything posted here is my personal opinion and not of my employer.

<comment><USER2> Or,

"The device SHALL support IPv6. The device MAY support the Internet."

Pure grandstanding.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> The real problem isn't address exhaustion, it's managing the migration from IPv4 to IPv6 and running mixed networks in the interim. I deal with 3 ISPs on a regular basis. Of which only 1 (Comcast, surprisingly enough) has their act together and can provide you with IPv6 connectivity. Meanwhile out of 5 datacenters I regularly deal with there is not a single one that can provide a direct IPv6 routing to the rack. So for the moment, at least for the networks I deal with it's IPv4 and tunneled IPv6 and given the nature of the business, IPv6 is really not on my priority list, and won't be until it actually saves people enough money to cover the switching costs.

</comment><comment><USER5> There are many corporations hording Class B blocks. Lots of them. Time to use them or lose them.

This is also a Windows problem believe it or not.

Class E block has 268 million addresses but no existing version of Windows will see/talk to them.

<comment><USER6> The E block is really 'reserved' and 'meant for test purposes'.

If Windows can't talk to those IP addresses they're actually within spec. Though it is a useless waste of a lot of bits.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I figure one change that will happen at the beginning of this "crisis" will be that ISPs will start NATing traffic, as tptacek said.

A lot of ISPs already have policies for not having daemons on ports, so they could use that as justification for not having your own IP completely accessible from every port (which I don't believe would be possible without explicit port forwarding from the ISP itself).

What would this mean for end users' internet? Not much, but IPv4 IPs would be shared by multiple users (hopefully not many at first). A lot of websites have session policies and all sorts of mess based on the remote address, so it will be interesting to see how the aging webapps deal with the change.

I figure servers will get first priority at v4 addresses. Yeah, there's useless crap going on like IRC vhosts, but I figure once the market closes in on the addresses people will likely sell them (hell, I know people squatting on address blocks until the 'apocalypse', thinking they'll score a huge profit!).

Fun times.

<comment><USER7> But wouldn't the end users be behind a double NAT in this scenario? (ISP's nat, end user's router's NAT.) Lots of voip protocols break when they try to deal with double NAT, and I'm sure there are other that will break too.

<comment><USER3> Even single NAT is not trivial when a few hundred thousands of active users are behind it, just because of the sheer scale.

For a major part of the users "The Internet" == "The Web", and applications like Skype use any available transport including avian carriers, this limits the impact.

But does having NAT increase the code complexity and increase the maintenance cost ? It does.

So, I would treat it as a short-term high-interest loan. If you do not have other choice - sure, go for it. But if you can avoid it - you will avoid a couple of gray hairs too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is just until the last /8 is assigned to an RIR, right? There will still be plenty of IPs available in many locations throughout the world... it'll just be North America that will have a hard time of it.

<comment><USER9> Why North America? For the most part North America has mature deployment of Internet services. What is really driving IP address exhaustion right now is Asia where millions are coming online for the first time. They are the ones that will have a hard time when unused IPv4 addresses become scarce.

<comment><USER8> I would think that in places without heavily established infrastructure, it would be much easier to deploy straight to IPv6.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Perhaps the only reason we're running out of IPv4 addresses is because you can still get large blocks of IPs for questionable reasons like "IRC vhosts" and "proxies"...

<http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.arin.ppml/8304>

Plus, both internet connections at my workplace gave us 6 IPs without us even asking for them.

<comment><USER11> Plus, you _can't_ get smaller blocks allocated even w hen you need them.... I have a legitimate need for an independent /24 that I can BGP route around to a few datacenters. ARIN says I can only apply for a /22 at the smallest. People are forced to apply for more address space than they really need in order to get any at all.

As for hte reasons "WHY" - it was never supposed to be a judgement as to relative value - only that they were actually needed and going to be used. IP addresses were never meant to have value in the first place.

<comment><USER10> Fortunately that's very close to changing. The ARIN Advisory Council recommended adoption a month ago and now it is just awaiting board review.

<https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2010_2.html>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Not to make light of the situation, but I've been hearing this same thing for the past 6 years. It gets a little old and diminishes the message.

* We already have our /48 bought & deployed in production.

</comment><comment><USER13> Make me wonder why our hosting provider keeps handing over 6 IP addresses for free each time we order a server (we usually don't need them).

<comment><USER14> What is the company, and are you otherwise happy with their service?

<comment><USER13> Softlayer, and yeah, they're great (at least on their dedicated hardware, not sure about their cloud services).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The internet will not run out of IP addresses, a market will develop for internet addresses and as price increases those that own IP blocks will sell them to those that need them.

There might be a business in there setting up a clearing house for IP addresses.

</comment><comment><USER16> Four syllables: IPv6.

</comment><comment><USER17> I heard that a year ago.</comment>


Ask HN: Help me track down a lunch thief  - <AUTHOR>

Our company has been growing and we've added a lot of people in the last six months.
About a month ago, I received a report that an employees' lunch was missing from the community fridge. I've received a similar report from a second and third employee as of today. The hot pocket box was there, but alas, the hot pocket was not.
In discussions with the people affected, we agree to several things:
1. Our company has a very "one big family" vibe. Putting up "stop stealing our hot pockets" sign or mounting a camera over the fridge is not what we want to do culture wise.
2. We want to catch the one person who is stealing stuff, remove them from the company and get back to our usual way of living.
Within these parameters, we've got several ideas, none of which sound quite clever enough:
1. Buy some of that "it only shows under UV light" powder, then go around after something is stolen shining it on people. Obvious holes.
2. Put a camera inside the frige and hope we get a face and a known "honeypot" lunch taken.
3. Put some kind of RF device on the food, wait until something goes missing and walk around until it registers.
HN, I need something better. We need to turn this bad thing into an awesome crime solving event. Suggestions welcome! <comment><USER2> Firstly, you need/want to have a supply of food to give the people who have their stuff stolen. That will add to the family feel, and let people know you're looking after them. Ask them not to tell anyone, and let them know you're dealing with the situation diplomatically.

I wouldn't go with a sign. People already know that stuff in fridges belongs to other people, a sign simply poisons the atmosphere. You can put in a secret camera, and from that you should be able to identify who it is. However, from what you say it seems that you'd prefer not to do that.

So instigate a pattern of people working from home one or two days a week. Shift the patterns around - with people's agreement - and keep a track of who is on when lunches go missing. Over time you will find that there are fewer and fewer people who are always present when things go missing.

Beware that there may be more than one thief! However, on the assumption that there is only one, you can probably narrow down the possibilities quite quickly with very careful planning.

Is there a chance that the thief reads HN? If so, you're in trouble already ...

</comment><comment><USER3> IANAL or anything even remotely resembling one, but it seems to me that this could be begging for legal trouble if an employee was fired for this. I could be very wrong, but depending on how you go about this it has elements of entrapment, etc. all over it.

EDIT: Also seems like a very minor issue. I'm tempted to think that you're trolling. Perhaps this person wasn't aware it was someone else's? Really, I think a memo reminding everyone that their own food is their own should be enough to clear this up.

<comment><USER4> I can vouch that this isn't a troll question. Having worked with him for a while, he's asking a good question about how best to keep his company family intact without making everyone feel like jerks about the whole thing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Ghost Chillies (or any other sufficiently "burn-off-your-mouth" chillies) are the answer. It's not high tech, but you're guaranteed to find the lunch thief (they're the one rolling on the floor), warn them off taking food from the fridge, and not have to put your employees through the "suspicion" deal.

I'm not sure what liability would be like, but technically, they're in the wrong for taking property that's not theirs. How were you to know that someone would eat your SUPER-MEGA-HOT pocket?

<comment><AUTHOR> I think this would "do harm" and go a little far...

I should really add it to the list though, its not the first time I've gotten the suggestion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> If your company has a 1 big family vibe, what makes you think this person is doing this maliciously? Maybe he just thinks everything is fair game for the taking.

</comment><comment><USER7> [http://www.compactappliance.com/Summit-10.1-Cu-Ft-All- Refrig...](http://www.compactappliance.com/Summit-10.1-Cu-Ft-All-Refrigerator- with-Locking-Compartments-FFAR10LOCKER-/FFAR10LOCKER-,default,pd.html)

</comment><comment><USER8> It could be a misguided prank gone wrong. Yet you jump to the worst (find and fire) without really knowing what's going on. It could be one of your most effective employees, and all they need is a little socialization.

<comment><AUTHOR> It could be, but I doubt it. We do not have a history of office pranks. Each person who came to me was kind of shaken up, not over the lunch per se but over "what is going on with this place that people are stealing from me."

The victims on this, imho, are the people who have built a good place to work, want to eat lunch in peace and can't.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Just saw this and thought about this HN thread: [http://www.thinkofthe.com/product.php?name=anti-theft- lunch-...](http://www.thinkofthe.com/product.php?name=anti-theft-lunch-bags)

</comment><comment><USER10> This was a problem for my grandmother once. My grandmother's father made her a sandwich with some Epicac(sp?) in it and the thief went home early that day...

</comment><comment><USER9> Small paint bomb - works for ATM's :)

You can make something that blows up when they open the container..

</comment><comment><USER7> Binary Bisection.

Give half a personal day. Was the food stolen? If yes, give 3/4 another bonus day...

</comment><comment><USER11> turd sandwich.

</comment><comment><USER12> To be the devil's advocate, were the stolen lunches marked with the owner's name? Someone could be under the impression that anything in the community fridge is up for grabs.

</comment><comment><USER13> You might not think this is relevant, but I do. Based on what you're describing, here's my guess as to the percent of market wage that you pay your employees: 18. (Just counting cash here, not any other form of compensation incl. equity.)

Am I right? Close? Honest question...</comment>


The New Intolerance of Student Activism - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new-intolerance-of-student-activism-at-yale/414810/#article-comments?single_page=true <comment><USER2> I found one quote in an op-ed in the Yale Herald regarding the controversy especially surprising and revealing.

> They [Erika and Nicholas Christakis] have failed to acknowledge the hurt and > pain that such a large part of our community feel. They have again and again > shown that they are committed to an ideal of free speech, not to the > Silliman community.

It is simply incredible to see anyone criticized for having a strong commitment to the freedom of speech. It's all the more amazing that it happened in a newspaper and on a college campus. The paragraph (as well as the rest of the piece) also seems to acknowledge that the demands of the protesters are at odds with the rest of the community's right to free expression. At a minimum, it acknowledges that the Christakises' position is one of principle, while failing to respect that fact.

The newspaper is offline now, but the op-ed was located at [http://yaleherald.com/op-eds/hurt-at-home/](http://yaleherald.com/op- eds/hurt-at-home/). It's still available in Google's cache.

<comment><USER3> They seem to be okay with freedom of speech for themselves, but not for the freedom of speech that goes with a reaction. Furthermore, why should freedom of speech trump community? We all recognize that in certain groups you don't just say whatever you want for the sake of it (e.g. try that at work and see how long you last); harmony within a community is important. Arguing for knowingly offensive speech/actions negates the importance of harmony.

<comment><USER4> Per the letter she isn't arguing for offensive speech, she's asking (among other things) when does certain speech (here represented by costumes) become offensive? A paraphrase: Why can my friend's 5-year old _white_ daughter dress as Mulan, but a 22-year old white woman can't? That's a valid _question_. She's not declaring that the latter is ok, but _asking_ why we currently accept the former and not the latter. At what age is the distinction made between "Oh, she's so precious" and "She's appropriating a culture that's not her own!"?

And if you want to go with community and what's appropriate. It's a fucking college. Colleges are places of discussion, learning and debate. College is the place to be offended. To learn why something is offensive, why something else is not, and determine whether offense is appropriate or not.

<comment><USER5> As a non-American, what is wrong with a 22-year old white woman dressing as Mulan ?

<comment><USER4> I don't know. But some people find it to be crossing a line. I don't get it, but I'm also not in a particular minority group (religious minority in my area, but I don't get upset about sexy nun costumes) that's commonly discriminated against.

Some people might see it as cultural appropriation. But it's a fictional character. Similarly, my ex-girlfriend often (with the approval of her Taiwanese and Chinese friends) dressed in some traditional Chinese outfits for Halloween for several years. None took offense, they encouraged it!

It's really hard to tell what's going to offend and what's not.

<comment><USER6> The concept of cultural appropriation as somehow offensive is misguided in my opinion, but

"with the approval of her Taiwanese and Chinese friends"

Is the wrong argument to make. It's the equivalent of "I say offensive black jokes around my black friends and they think it's funny."

<comment><USER7> The aggrieved always initially present their offense as being representative of the entire community of x. Saying "my friends are OK with it" is a way of saying "you don't speak for all X" and puts them in a position of replying "well maybe the people who know you best and live in your community aren't offended, but they should be according to this essay on critical race theory.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> There is a disturbing trend over the past few years of using social activism as a pretense for outright harassment and bullying. The most disturbing part is that it allows the harassment to happen completely out in the open. The harassers will gladly sign their own name to the actions, with the implication that if anyone should question them then their detractors will be the next target.

Welcome to the New McCarthyism.

<comment><USER9> > The harassers will gladly sign their own name to the actions, with the > implication that if anyone should question them then their detractors will > be the next target.

> Welcome to the New McCarthyism.

New? How does this differ from the Old McCarthyism?

<comment><USER10> >> "New? How does this differ from the Old McCarthyism?"

I'm not the OP, but I think the OP's claim is that this McCarthyism pretends to be about social issues instead of pretending to be about communism.

<comment><USER9> Communism, as presented and as applied, was and is nothing but a social issue.

<comment><USER10> Undoubtedly true in one sense of the word. But "social issues" for today's Yale undergrad probably pertain more to The Patriarchy and racist microaggressions than to the things that most self-professed communists discuss.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Anyone remember when students seemed to be actually fighting for freedom of speech, and universities were about challenging people's ideas and assumptions? What went wrong all those years ago?

Seriously though, this sort of thing worries me more than any government activity or corporatism. Who needs authoritarian politics where (what seems like) a decent amount of the next generation wants to shut down anything they deem 'offensive' or 'uncomfortable'?

<comment><USER12> The Christakis family is quite powerful at Yale, certainly in comparison to the students trying to get them replaced. They were Co-Masters at a Harvard house, and one of them extended that position to Yale. In 2009, one made Time magazine's list of the 100 most influential people in the world. ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_A._Christakis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_A._Christakis))

Yale students do not get to run their own university. So when they want to replace some backwards, incompetent administrators, they must turn to activism. They can't merely decide to hire better ones.

> "this sort of thing worries me more than any government activity or > corporatism."

Thanks for sharing your priorities. Government and corporations are the dominant power structures which lead to international mass murder ("war"), subordination/obedience, surveillance, mass incarceration... But students replacing backwards administrators are most worrying of all.

<comment> rm_-rf_slash I think the poster may have a point. Student activity is an indicator of where society in general is going. If students are so easily swayed by their definition of intolerance, it can have serious ramifications throughout society.

Those students become the next consumers, neighbors, managers, politicians, lawyers, judges, and, indeed, activists. Their power is not in angry protests, it manifests slowly, in the kinds of products people sell or buy, or laws we promote or demonize.

The reason I suspect student intolerance is perceived as a big problem is that for whatever nasty things THE SYSTEM is up to today, those students represent who will run it tomorrow.

<comment><USER13> There were approximately 20 students that I saw in the video. Out of thousands. I think society is going to be okay.

<comment><USER14> And yet I can't read HN without seeing this garbage.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The problem with this article is that the author is claiming that all this outrage is over one email, and thus the reaction is disproportionate and damaging.

The outrage might be over the top for a single email, but that is not the context experienced by the students protesting. As a white guy with a good job, the Atlantic author and I share the privilege to experience race if and when we choose. From that perspective, it's easy to call this "a fight over Halloween costumes"

For the women who say they were turned away from a "white girls only" party, and for many others, it's not a fight over an email about Halloween costumes. It's about having administrators who acknowledge the reality that they experience on an ongoing basis:

It's worth reading another side of the story before jumping to conclusions: [https://medium.com/keep-learning-keep-growing/what-s- really-...](https://medium.com/keep-learning-keep-growing/what-s-really-going- on-at-yale-6bdbbeeb57a6)

When you see all the context that the Atlantic author, Mr Friedersdorf, chooses to ignore, you should think about the political agenda behind a piece like this.

<comment> norea-armozel I'm glad you mentioned this. I was on the fence initially and even had a bit of a spat with Popehat on Twitter over it (blocked by him now, heh). In the end, I'm getting really tired of people taking one side of an issue as the universal truth when there's much more going on. Some people may not be good at explaining things like the woman in the FIRE video, but that doesn't seem to be the entire story or even a significant part of it.

Worse yet, some are taking this as a launching point to dispose of the "safe space" concept without knowing what exactly defines a "safe space." For people who don't have anything to lose (white, rich, heterosexual, and non- transgender) this is fine. But for the rest of us who depend to communicate and get support on safe spaces online and offline it's a big deal.

<comment><USER16> _In the end, I 'm getting really tired of people taking one side of an issue as the universal truth when there's much more going on._

This is what I find missing in most discourse anymore. It's like nobody has a feel for nuance anymore so every issue is black or white and couldn't possibly be anything else.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Most troubling is that no one stands up to these bullies. I saw this firsthand as a student at a similar institution in the last few years. The faculty, administration, student leaders, and even trustees at these schools are split between a minority who support the activists and a majority who dare not speak out, lest they become the next target. Instead of standing firm and true to the age-old academic principles of free expression, inquiry, and exchange of ideas, they try to appease these groups in hopes that they'll go away or move on to another target. But each extorted victory only emboldens them more.

<comment><USER18> They appeal to these groups because they bring money. I go to a Jesuit school and they appeal to these groups as well (even if they couldn't care less about Jesuit values) because well, they pay.

</comment></comment><comment> rm_-rf_slash I have a theory that the Internet has done two things to make people less tolerant of others, instead of more.

First is the echo chamber phenomenon, which I'm sure we are all familiar with and requires no further introduction.

Second, I suspect, is the amazing speed at which technology has upended the world. Where technology can have an impact, it can change things at light speed compared to what our parents and grandparents put up with.

Take TV for example. For decades, televisions were tiny, expensive black-and- white boxes. Then after a while they became affordable, small-but-not-tiny black-and-white boxes. Took a bit longer until color television was the standard, less time for decent resolutions to be expected, even less for HDTV/4K. Not to mention the proliferation of content from 1-5 channels to thousands.

I believe that as technology changes life at a rapidly increasing pace, people's expectation of a rate of change is accordingly affected. We want things now, or tomorrow, or next week if we're really looking forward.

Mix that attitude with an echo chamber and you have a sizable cohort of well- meaning young people who are perturbed - if not outraged - that the societal ills of thousands of years of cultural development haven't been resolved yesterday, and anybody who calls to question the new attitude or the speed of its implementation must have a racist/sexist/pro-refined-sugars agenda.

<comment><USER19> As long as the change is a good one, it's for the best that it be done quickly. Look at how quickly public opinion shifted on gay marriage and marijuana legalization relative to similar issues in the pre-internet age. I expect that most people on hn approve of those changes and are therefore happy that they don't have to wait another 30 years for them to be enacted.

</comment></comment><comment> vezzy-fnord When I saw the reemergence of postmodern feminism and critical theory brewing up over the past couple of years or so, initially on fringe alt-media like Tumblr blogs, I just expected it'd be another brief intellectual trend that would fizzle out.

Nope, it exploded into an all-out culture war I couldn't have imagined.

Unsurprisingly, all this identity politicking has been met by a swift reactionary movement in bile like _The Daily Stormer_ becoming surprisingly popular given how niche the ideology generally is. It's a buffoonish competition of "more persecuted than thou".

Meanwhile, liberal values get to bite the dust.

</comment><comment><USER20> Only $13.81, new: [http://www.amazon.com/Closing-American-Mind-Education- Impove...](http://www.amazon.com/Closing-American-Mind-Education- Impoverished/dp/1451683200).

> The student explodes, "Then why the fuck did you accept the position?! Who > the fuck hired you?! You should step down! If that is what you think about > being a master you should step down! It is not about creating an > intellectual space! It is not! Do you understand that? It's about creating a > home here. You are not doing that!"

Bloom places a heavy emphasis on extolling to college students the virtues of western intellectual tradition, and reactions like this one show why. Willingness to entertain ideas that could cause social disharmony is actually pretty unusual among world cultures. It's unusual in the western world, but even more so nearly everywhere else. It's not the natural order of things. It's a discovery, an achievement, but one that can be lost to time.

</comment><comment><USER21> From what I have experienced in college so far is that either a student has experienced something or not, and the students who have not experienced something are the ones to protest. Students who have not experienced racism or Genocide-from the article- only know it from what they learned in school, online, or some other medium. So when they think they hear something that is about those "things" they jump up and go crazy. The last part of the article is what I am mostly talking about.

I could also talk about the first part too, like the video of the girl yelling at Nicholas is so interesting. You want to stand up for something, yet you cannot have a conversation about it and just yell at the man?

</comment><comment><USER22> When political correctness goes wrong...

Seriously though, what is wrong with people these days that they can't even have a dialogue?

Is this the result of the us vs. them propaganda started by George W. Bush? The result of an education system which forces students to only memorize, and not to think? The result of a generation of helicopter parents?

Regardless, it's scary to think that in this day and age in which we consider ourselves so 'progressive', people attack others' beliefs (even very moderate ones) with a zeal that would make ISIS proud...

<comment><USER23> > Seriously though, what is wrong with people these days that they can't even > have a dialogue?

Postmodernism. Seriously.

When you teach that there is no real truth, that "truth" is merely a sociological construct, that all speech is only about power (because it literally _cannot_ be about truth), and a bunch of impressionable 18-year-olds listen and believe you, and start to act on what they believe, this is what you get. Why would you expect something else to happen?

[Edit: slight softening of language, so that it was not unintentionally accusative.]

<comment><USER22> Not going to lie, wasn't expecting an answer. I really like your explanation (if not the direction it may lead society)...

Edit - your language was fine. I still like your explanation. Provocative language belongs in discussions like this regardless, even though I didn't take your message that way.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I think understanding this situation completely requires an enormous amount of empathy. Whether one agrees with the protesters or not, it's unfair to characterize them merely as fighting against freedom of speech. I am sure they recognize the speech aspect of this, but to them, that is second to what they perceive to be the central issue: equality. Arguable perhaps, but I hold that the issue of equality trumps that of speech.

This issue is related is part of a larger trend whereby arguably minor transgressions trigger significant protest (see the Atlantic's coverage of Oberlin). My take is that after an oppressed class completes the initial leaps and bounds toward equality, tactics of old (e.g. nonviolent peaceful protest) cease to effect further change. New tactics therefore must evolve in order to close the remaining gap. This gap is relatively small, but its size isn't the point - the fact that a gap, based merely on class identification, exists at all should not be accepted.

The current tactics might not be perfect - I posit they are still evolving. But they do effectively utilize available resources and processes (e.g. content virality) to draw massive attention to issues.

As for their characterization by MSM (e.g. the protesters are "bullies", they have fostered what is uncharitably called a "victimhood culture") we are simply observing (or participating in) the attempt to resolve cognitive dissonance between evidence of social inequality and the intellectual status quo.

</comment><comment><USER25> It's pretty crazy to me that I fought with my campus 10 years ago for pro- speech issues, it seems the administrations haven't gotten any more tolerant of speech (if anything less tolerant) and the students now seem to be fighting the administration in the opposite direction!

I think there are mix of issues going on here that are getting handled oddly.

1) Debating ideas versus the validity of groups. In my opinion if there's overt racism, there is room for the campus to intervene to make sure they have an inclusive environment. However if they're debating something (intentionally picking something else) like whether or not there should be dogs on campus or whether or not dog owning is a good idea in the abstract, this is a completely fair discussion. Unfortunately both types of discussions are happening which is making the debate more difficult.

2) Offensive speech Some people will hold and express ideas that others find offensive. As long as this speech is not designed to directly dehumanize or devalue contributing members of the community this probably has to be allowed to have a healthy dialogue.

3) Lots of poor judgement. I suspect many of the incidents (other than the overt racism which is separate) that have crossed the line were not intended to be offensive, but I think some of them were deeply offensive. If you do something deeply offensive I think it's reasonable to be received with a somewhat hostile reaction (demands for apology, anger towards group, etc). This is probably not the most effective way to engage people, better to try to explain why what they did is deeply offensive. I think it's completely reasonable for the school to try to encourage a positive, thoughtful interaction between people without trying to police every minor injustice.

<comment><USER25> This line pretty much summarizes the issue: "They're behaving more like Reddit parodies of "social-justice warriors" than coherent activists"

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Reminds me of the "In College and Hiding From Scary Ideas" NYT op-ed [1] that lists a lot of similar scenarios to the one at Yale.

I have no problem with an NA group asking participants to respectfully focus on recovery and minimize talking about all the crazy shit you did as an addict -- participation is voluntary, after all. Imposing a similar "safe space" in the real world is obviously impossible. Attempts to ostracize those who dare suggest that a university campus should model the real world instead of a safe space is really insidious.

[1][http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith-s...](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith- shulevitz-hiding-from-scary-ideas.html?_r=1&referrer=)

</comment><comment><USER27> If the students articulated a reasoned response instead of acting out an emotional catastrophe; they would be ignored. The real issue is the 'viral promo' culture which encourages ridiculousness and outrage.

</comment><comment><USER28> The author fails to give this story proper context, and it seems like many in this thread have not read the article and are simply venting based on the title and a brief glance over of the author's arguments.

This is not a demonstration of "SJW" or students acting like sheltered children. It's about students protesting against a campus culture that they feel discriminates against them. Such as when a frat house explicitly banned black girls from entering on Halloween. [1]

This is the closest the author comes to addressing the real issue, rather than picking anecdotes and quotes to defend his thesis while hyperbolically [2] bashing the "activists":

 _Some Yalies are defending their broken activist culture by seizing on more defensible reasons for being upset. "The protests are not really about Halloween costumes or a frat party," Yale senior Aaron Lewis writes. "They're about a mismatch between the Yale we find in admissions brochures and the Yale we experience every day. They're about real experiences with racism on this campus that have gone unacknowledged for far too long. The university sells itself as a welcoming and inclusive place for people of all backgrounds. Unfortunately, it often isn't."

But regardless of other controversies at Yale, its students owe Nicholas and Erika Christakis an apology. And they owe apologies to other objects of their intolerance, too._

This is bad and misleading journalism written to generate views and stoke a flame war by bringing in the popular theme of college-student-as-inept- coddled-child-who-fights-for-trivial-things-and-bullies-others.

[1] [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade- point/wp/2015/11/0...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade- point/wp/2015/11/05/a-confrontation-over-race-at-yale-hundreds-of-students- demand-answers-from-the-schools-first-black-dean/)

[2] _This beggars belief. Yale students told to talk to each other if they find a peer's costume offensive helplessly declare that they're unable to do so without an authority figure specifying "any modes or means to facilitate these discussions," as if they're Martians unfamiliar with a concept as rudimentary as disagreeing in conversation, even as they publish an open letter that is, itself, a mode of facilitating discussion._

<comment><USER29> I read the context for the article in several other places, and the original Christakis mail, and I think you're incorrect.

There _was_ apparently a racist incident at a frat house, but Christakis had nothing to do with it. The ire Christakis faces appears to derive entirely from the email Erika Christakis wrote. When the girl in the campus quad screams at Christakis that he's disgusting, should resign, and should not be able to sleep at night, she's yelling because he refuses to apologize _for the email_.

<comment><USER28> I, too, read the letter, which was my impetus for doing further research of my own. It seems pretty benign and progressive when read with no surrounding context, so I found it hard to believe that some of the smartest students in the country would have such a poor reaction towards it.

This was the big deal, apparently:

 _" There was so much coded language in that e-mail that is just disrespectful," said Ewurama Okai, a junior._

I'm not arguing against free speech, but it seems like many interpreted her comments to be accepting of a pervasive and ingrained culture of racism at Yale.

It's unfortunate but understandable that some students got so worked up that they behaved poorly and acted on emotion, rather than rationally, which they later did with the petition and various letters/articles addressing the issue.

We should be focusing on the overall themes of the argument rather than the specific anecdotes of what one student said or did which may not be representative of the entire body.

<comment><USER29> To me, it sounds like it's a crime to be wrong about something regarding racial issues at Yale.

The Genius annotation of the letter makes a lot of totally reasonable arguments, reasonable enough that I would characterize the whole letter as "somewhat wrong-headed" now. But _so what_?

<comment><USER28> So if something is wrong, you fix it!

I'm not sure that calling for the Christakis' resignation is the correct remedial action, but if you were being discriminated against, wouldn't you be angry and ready to fight? Especially if you were promised a safe haven from racism and discrimination at one of the country's most elite schools?

Most of the stuff I've seen on Facebook from Yale students has been directed towards the frat, so I'm surprised there isn't more of a mention of that whole incident in this story either.

<comment><USER29> Well here's "activism" in a nutshell for you. By screaming, spitting on people, and trying to oust them from their jobs, the protesters have assured that virtually nobody who isn't already on their side is going to care about their concerns.

If the Chisakises had an actual problem with racial insensitivity, their opponents were given ample opportunities to allow Nicholas and Erika to hang themselves with their own words --- the protesters wrote open letters, had campus debates, &c. Instead, they jumped the gun.

<comment><USER28> The sad thing is that HN is responding in a similar manner, with people quick to judge and condemn the students as spoiled children.

I don't have a horse in the race, and I wanted to call out the author's blatant bias, and yet I was immediately downvoted to the bottom of the thread.

I am disappointed to see these knee-jerk reactions gaining consensus when we have precious little insight into the issues at hand and how they are actually being dealt with.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> seems to me like a huge part of the problem here is treating the screeching of tantrumming children as if it were the reasoned speech of mature adults.

at some point the university administration needs to simply stop acknowledging this as an acceptable form of communication. it isn't. once those children leave the university they'll discover that for themselves all too soon.

</comment><comment><USER31> As a liberal, I am embarrassed by the simplistic display of liberal values at Yale.

It all seems rather childish. Erika wrote the most open wise letter that basically expressed the desire to not render judgement.

The students are angry that they didn't want to judge others.

Sounds a lot like the troubles Jesus got into personally.

</comment><comment><USER32> Anyone who says "apologize to me" is a schoolyard bully imagining themselves as Rosa Parks.

<comment><USER23> There are situations where the only way to create progress is for the perpetrator to realize that what they did was wrong, _why_ it was wrong, and try to fix things (as much as possible). It's not a totally wrong concept.

The way it's being applied on college campuses is insane.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> College is changing so much. Ten years ago college was a place where you went to be challenged in your beliefs, ideals, perceptions on reality and society, and be regularly offended by people and ideas that were not your own. I can't imagine trying to go to college today. We've traded freedom to learn and express ourselves, for the freedom to be free from anything uncomfortable or offensive in any way. WTF.

</comment><comment><USER34> The use of poisoning language is what has given them power for so long. Luckily their overuse of labeling _everything_ to be problematic/racist/sexist is going to be their downfall. When air conditioned offices began to be labeled sexist [0], reasonable people began to see through all the bullshit.

It is sad that the absurdity has been allowed to go on for so many years before the average person decided to be reasonable and push back. I'm glad that people are finally waking up and realizing that a culture where _dressing up for Halloween_ is "potentially offensive" is absurd [1].

I fear a world where I can no longer purchase a kimono because it has been labeled as "potentially offensive" and "cultural appropriation" of the Japanese people by a group of disproportionately white "progressives". While ignoring how the Japanese people feel about it, of course. Also - even if you were Japanese you wouldn't be allowed to wear a kimono. After all, it is possible to appropriate your own culture [2].

[0] [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11760417/Air- co...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11760417/Air-conditioning- in-your-office-is-sexist.-True-story.html)

[1] [http://www.geneseo.edu/community/show-your-true- face-2015](http://www.geneseo.edu/community/show-your-true-face-2015)

[2] [http://www.mrctv.org/blog/ontario-high-school-halloween- cost...](http://www.mrctv.org/blog/ontario-high-school-halloween-costume-can- t-appropriate-your-own-culture)

</comment><comment><USER35> If the students are bullying, then name them! The only way I can see to stop a bully is to fully expose them.

<comment><USER8> This is exactly the tactic those bullies use on their victims. "But it's okay because we're on the right side" is exactly the reasoning they use, as well.

<comment><USER36> But right or wrong is what is of actual importance. Your attitude of relativism is at the heart of anti-intellectualism: the belief that there is no difference between right and wrong, it's all just opinion. I do believe in right and wrong, and I believe you should fight for what is right using the best techniques you can.

Saying that effective tactics should not be used because bad people also use them only disempowers those under attack.

<comment><USER8> I do believe in right and wrong, but I do not believe that there are no bad tactics, only bad targets. Internet vigilantism isn't going to work out for anybody, it'll only perpetuate the cycle without resolving the core issues.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Who was it that said "You have freedom of speech, not freedom from speech" ?

</comment><comment><USER37> Universities are dead a source of innovation and critical thinking. They'll probably lumber along for another century or so from pure inertia, but the people with really new, radical ideas are going to go elsewhere.

Between the censorship, "safe spaces" where people refuse to even think about an idea they find offensive, the decline of academia as a viable career path, and the overwhelming tuition costs, I think talented and ambitious people are going to be spending as little time as possible at universities in the future.

</comment><comment><USER38> At least part of the blame lies in these colleges' Women and Gender Studies departments. I don't know if any of you have ever taken a WGST class, but at my school (Ivy) it was essentially institutionalized activism. People were _taught_ that they were victims. It had very little intellectual depth, no alternate theories were taught, and the students who did best were the ones who "felt" the strongest about the "injustices".

These students then take these lessons out into the open, and are infernally convinced that they are _Right_ and everyone else is wrong. It is shameful that these pseudo-philosophies are allowed to be taught in school as if they have any intellectual depth. Their only purpose is to radicalize the students into being loud self-righteous people.

So there's that, plus there are completely ineffectual helicopter parents who have coddled their children so much that they grow up spoiled. I saw the video of that person at Yale shouting at the professor - if my mother saw me do that she'd slap me in the face. What a despicable display of disrespect towards a reasonable man.

<comment><USER39> > People were taught that they were victims.

As opposed to what? Teaching that we live in a fantasy world where everyone is actually treated equally?

<comment><USER38> There's a middle ground between victimhood and equality.

"To accuse others for one's own misfortunes is a sign of want of education. To accuse oneself shows that one's education has begun. To accuse neither oneself nor others shows that one's education is complete." \- Epictetus

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> No surprise that literally the worst article on the Yale race issue would be the one that shoots up HN.

> Erika Christakis' ... message was a model of relevant, thoughtful, civil > engagement.

That is a parody of bullshit.

She refers repeatedly about "censure and prohibition but do read the email she is complaining about [1] and tell me where the requirements are:

[1] [http://pastebin.com/TLGSdaTg](http://pastebin.com/TLGSdaTg)

> Yale is a community that _values free expression_ as well as inclusivity. > And while students, undergraduate and graduate, definitely _have a right_ to > express themselves, we would _hope_ that people would actively avoid those > circumstances that threaten our sense of community or disrespects, alienates > or ridicules segments of our population based on race, nationality, > religious belief or gender expression... There is growing national concern > on campuses everywhere about these issues, and we encourage Yale students to > _take the time to consider_ their costumes and the impact it may have. So, > if you are planning to dress-up for Halloween, or will be attending any > social gatherings planned for the weekend, please _ask yourself these > questions before deciding_ upon your costume choice

From the genius annotations to her email [2] by April Joyner:

[2] [http://genius.com/8083098](http://genius.com/8083098)

> it is hard for me to give credence to a claim that there is something > objectionably "appropriative" about a blonde-haired child's wanting to be > Mulan for a day

 _This is an example of a straw man argument. The original email from the Intercultural Affairs Council said nothing about blond-haired children wanting to be Mulan—or children at all. The email listed "wearing feathered headdresses, turbans, wearing 'war paint' or modifying skin tone or wearing blackface or redface" as examples of Halloween costumery that could be culturally insensitive. Christakis also likens college students, most of whom (legally speaking) are adults, to young children._

<comment><USER29> There are plenty of things in Erika Christakis email I disagree with too. But the student protesters aren't demanding that their disagreement be heard. They're demanding that Nicholas and Erika Christakis resign from their position over it.

<comment><USER40> My main point here was the tone of Friesendorf's article and his ridiculous glorifying of Erika Christakis' email which starts off 'I don't wish to trivialize' and then proceeeds to (foreshadowing) actually trivialize the issue by reducing concerns about college students in blackface to 6 year olds wanting to dress up like Mulan.

For the larger issue of whether her husband or she or both should resign/be fired or not that's a more complicated issue and I don't see much of a serious conversation in the comments here. For people who's job description includes being "responsible for the physical well being and safety of students" to be this tone deaf on race[1], resignation strikes me as a legitimate demand.

[1] "Nicholas says, if you don't like a costume someone is wearing, look away, or tell them you are offended." The less said about 'look away' as a policy, the better. As far as 'telling people what is offensive', correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that exactly what was happening in the first place when they sent out an email that essentially said 'maybe don't be an asshole this Halloween'?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> The Atlantic (and, unsurprisingly, the current season of South Park) have done a great job highlighting the problems that extreme PC-culture can create.

</comment><comment><USER42> I'm not gonna get down the rabbit hole of discussing if these students are coddled or if they behave like little kids, but it is very scary how their first reflex is always to go after the job of the person who disagrees with them.

In today's society it is incredibly violent to go after another person's job. It is what they've been doing for many years, 8 hours a day, it is a way to provide for their families. You're basically trying very hard to hurt a whole household just because one person disagrees with you.

<comment><USER43> It is certainly a misguided and disproportionate tactic, but it is not a violent one.

<comment><USER44> This is absolutely violence

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0)

<comment><USER29> No, it's not. It's yelling. Yelling is not violence. Words mean things, and if you need an illustration, think of all the times the police have used the false equivalence between discourteous or angry speech and violence in order to harm people.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> Considering the reactions here to this incident, I wonder if at some point there will be a counter reaction by certain colleges.

I wonder if some universities will start advertising that they don't care about "safe spaces" and "puppy time". In the end, in the US, universities are in it for the money, and there seems to be a market for students who want to learn and not have to deal with this BS.

<comment><USER45> The danger of cultural waves like this is that there might not be a market for schools that stand up to it. If this mentality is prevalent enough in a whole generation of students, there may never be a school willing to stand up to it. It'll just become the new normal.

<comment><USER19> Come on now. There will be at least _a_ school that stands up to it. There are still universities that ban premarital sex, for crying out loud.

<comment><USER46> Sure. But will they be around in another generation? If so, will they still hold on to their (current) set of values?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Alternate theory: Professors may go on leave accept lucrative private industry jobs then come back 5 years later to a promotion. Mean while people who have social and institutional power will continue to pretend that these students were a threat to the status quo.

</comment><comment><USER48> It is unfortunate, but traditional liberals will have to ally with some rather distasteful right-wingers to end the insanity.

<comment><USER49> SJW's are authoritarian, much like distasteful right-wingers. These people are like a secular version of the Christian Right.

<comment> rm_-rf_slash Wow, I never saw it quite so clearly like that. You are right. The SJW angle really is the "logically" equivalent doctrine of religious dogma.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> PCU into the Netflix queue!

</comment><comment><USER51> As far as I can tell, all the students in this outrage should be expelled. I doubt even a community college would want them; let them wallow in obscurity and reflect on their misdeeds.

<comment><USER8> It's their position as victims that lets them get away with these actions in the first place. Further "victimizing" them will only give them more power. It will let them further capitalize on the "David vs Goliath" war against the university itself, and the media will inevitably side with the underdog victims.

<comment><USER52> I disagree.

Expel them, escort them off campus, get restraining orders to keep them away both physically and virtually. Shut down all of their student accounts and access. When they resist toss 'em in jail and sue them.

Responding weakly to this kind of madness (and it _is_ madness) will only lead to anarchy.

<comment><USER8> Individually, they are expressing freedom of speech. What is the basis for expulsion, jail, and civil suits?

<comment><USER52> No reason need be given for expulsion. Yale AFAIK is a private university and business and can do as it wishes.

The reason for jail would be violation of a restraining order. The reason for civil suit would be damages to the university's image or property.

The problem could be cleared out in 3 days and not a stir of it left after a week, were the administration willing to maintain control of their campus.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Retro Arcade Museum Closes In Downstate New York - <AUTHOR> http://www.vendingtimes.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=EB79A487112B48A296B38C81345C8C7F&nm=Vending+Features&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=9634729EA6BD4A088728A533A12A9307

<comment><USER2> Applying blindly a stupid policy can make no good.</comment>


Diesel 2: Using generators for async (and back again) - <AUTHOR> http://devblog.bu.mp/generators-and-back-again

<comment><USER2> Does anyone else see a trend in this migration to async style programming? I've been working on a similar issue for a while now involving a similarity search engine with nested state machines.

I can't quite tell if my perception of this trend is skewed by my current perspective or if there are more people exploring this model of programming. IMHO, some things get much harder to reason about without some good tools.

<comment><USER3> I think the move to async frameworks is primarily precipitated by the fact that a file handle (which is, essentially, what an async framework holds per connection) is substantially lighter weight than a thread. When you're talking about writing a server that can handle thousands of concurrent connections, threads just become computationally infeasible.

<comment><USER4> That depends a lot on your OS and your threading mechanism. It used to be pretty bad on Linux for example, but the modern NPTL implementation is much better. And even then it still doesn't mean that your language has to stick to a 1:1 threading model.

The main problem with threads is the relative complexity of the programming and debugging model. I don't really see a complete migration from threads to async, I see a migratino from threads to a multitude of models, where async is just one of them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm curious if PEP 380 (yield from) would make greenlet less convenient.

<http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/>

<comment><USER6> Yeah, PEP 380 definitely adds some more heft to generators-as-threads, removing a fair number of the problems I cited in that post.

<comment><USER5> Which remain?

The advantage of generators as threads is that they work with other Python implementations like Jython and IronPython. It would be nice if whatever Python adopted in the core wasn't still inferior to greenlet based libraries.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Congratulations, you've just re-invented Eventlet.

<comment><USER8> "Now with 100% less crazy socket monkey patching!"</comment></comment>