Apple invests €1.7B in renewable energy data centres in Denmark and Ireland - <AUTHOR> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/02/23Apple-to-Invest-1-7-Billion-in-New-European-Data-Centres.html?1424678531

<comment><USER2> The IT spokesperson from the same party as the former and current mayor of Viborg wrote a very critiqued article about making it attractive to build data centers in Denmark on the 6th of February[1].

Now when this deal is public he will surely boast about his brilliant foresight in the upcoming election...

There's of course no definite proof that he knew about this deal at the time of the article, but the timing couldn't be better.

[1] = [http://www.version2.dk/blog/tid-til-danske- datacentre-76979](http://www.version2.dk/blog/tid-til-danske-datacentre-76979) (in Danish)

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm surprised they placed one in Denmark since Netherlands and West-Germany (ie near Düsseldorf) would be much more central Europe for internet connections.

<comment><USER4> Maybe, because Denmark has a huge supply of wind energy?

<comment><USER5> Actually I believe Apple is going for a long term renewable energy strategy like Amazon, Google and Microsoft. The additional electricity from wind(and maybe solar) can also be sold into the danish/European energy market.

The big picture I see, is that if you look at the Nordic countries, you see that Finland and Sweden has several (unpopular)nuclear power plants. Denmark has a mix of everything, mostly coal and wind. And Norway get most of its electricity from hydro.

Google has built a data center in Finland, Facebook in Sweden and now Apple will build one in Denmark. And I also believe Microsoft is building a data center in Finland.

But few are considering Norway and that may be because electricity in Norway is already very cheap and neither wind or solar can compete with hydro. And you want additional profit by selling energy to the energy market.

Selling electricity is a good sustainable long term investment.

<comment><USER6> There's wind and other renewables (wave/tide) in Denmark, but 48 % of electricity production is coal, so that's the marginal increase of production that Apple [edit: not Google] is actually going to use.

BTW, in Finland nuclear isn't that unpopular, there's currently a new site under construction.

(There is some trouble building it up, though: because the opponents of nuclear power will put just as much resistance to a site regardless of whether it is a 160 MW or 1600 MW plant, the planners make the site as big as possible, and the suppliers (in this case Areva) haven't considered this in the technology. The local nuclear safety authority is also ultra-safety- conscious, which is good in itself, except when slows down the deployment of a new, quite safe site so that the energy is bought off a Chernobyl-type thing near Leningrad).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Interestingly, we don't even have Apple stores in Denmark yet, despite a wealthy and seemingly voracious market. Guess we don't promise enough growth opportunity.

<comment><USER8> Don't have them in Ireland either, just a few authorised resellers. I guess a population of ~5 million isn't sufficient to support.

<comment><USER9> HongKong has 7 million and has 3 Apple Stores ( [http://www.apple.com/hk/en/retail/storelist/](http://www.apple.com/hk/en/retail/storelist/) )

I think it depends on sales, and the popularity of the location.

<comment><USER10> HK is a potential retail destination for > 1 bn consumers in East Asia.

Mainland Chinese cross the border and come back with bags full of Apple products (in addition to LV bags etc.).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Awesome! Living in Denmark, this is huge news!

I would have thought they would place it in Germany or the Netherlands, but in Denmark we can provide the datacenter with 100% green energy, and this is one of the main concerns for Apple.

I wonder what the 300 people would work with, since just maintaining the datacenter wouldn't require that many people. So hope they're moving other jobs to Denmark, and accumulate different job positions there.

<comment><USER12> I am Danish too and I am not sure why we should be able to offer 100% green energy better than the German or the Dutch..?

<comment><USER11> Of course not - but Viborg has plenty of energy, and a brand new 400 kV connection [1]. Would be ideal by Apple to use that, and they've probably gotten a good offer.

[1] [http://energinet.dk/DA/ANLAEG-OG- PROJEKTER/Anlaegsprojekter-...](http://energinet.dk/DA/ANLAEG-OG- PROJEKTER/Anlaegsprojekter-el/Ny-400-kilovolt-ledning-Kassoe- Tjele/Sider/default.aspx)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The Danish plant is about an hours drive from me. There's not much IT related going on in that area so it's good to see that someone is willing to invest.

</comment><comment><USER14> This flew under the radar for me but AWS has "a long-term commitment to achieve 100% renewable energy usage for our global infrastructure footprint."

<comment><USER15> Source? Highly relevant to my interests...

EDIT:

Forgot that was a quote, and used Google — for anyone who's interested: [http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/sustainable- energy/](http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/sustainable-energy/)

<comment><USER16> Interesting that they see renewable and not some term that envelops nuclear, given Bezos' investments in the latter.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I live in Galway, what type of jobs are created in data centres? I'm guessing there's very little, if any software development.

<comment><USER18> Might be some devops, unless it's going to be managed remotely.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> And most definitely not a move designed to sweeten the European Union's mood after their investigation into Apple Europe's (allegedly) illegal tax deals :P

([http://europa.eu/rapid/press- release_IP-14-663_en.htm](http://europa.eu/rapid/press- release_IP-14-663_en.htm))

<comment><USER20> If you have money overseas that you don't want to repatriate because of tax rates (personal opinion: tax rates aren't too high for repatriation), would it not make sense to spend that money on renewables overseas for energy you're going to consume anyway?

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Does anyone have more information? I lived in Galway for several years and it sounds interesting.

> _recover land previously used for growing and harvesting non-native trees > and restore native trees to Derrydonnell Forest_

Sad to hear that. There are not that many trees in Ireland.

<comment><USER22> What?! That's a good thing! Are you sure you read that right?

Frankly, we need more native tree cover, and that's what they're planning on doing, and getting rid of those damned ugly conifers that are only good for wood harvesting. Personally, I'd like to see more marginal land being returned into proper deciduous forests. The problem is that people have difficulty getting to the idea that more forest cover would actually be beneficial to the unforested land as it would protect it from the wind, thus preventing soil erosion, which is an issue, especially in the west and northwest. I'd a discussion about this in a pub over Christmas, and the arguments against boiled down to people not wanting to lose grazing land for sheep, which is reasonable enough, and that forest can be breeding grounds for midges, which is less reasonable.

<comment><USER23> Yeh but in my experience in Ireland, the midges are mainly a problem in the non-native and fast growing species found in the "managed" Coillte forrests.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Can anyone say the type of renewable energy: Is it wind based?

<comment><USER25> "100% renewable" in Denmark usually means a mixture of Danish wind and Swedish/Norwegian hydro. The wind power is highly variable so only fills Danish energy needs on some days, but Denmark has the fortune to be near very large hydro installations further north, which are relatively easy to flex, and provide the remainder via high-capacity links. (For customers not needing "100% renewable", the load is also managed using Denmark's thermal power plants and Sweden's nuclear plants.)

This somewhat unusual arrangement does mean that wholesale spot electric prices are hugely variable, ranging from near-free on high-wind days, to around €0.025/kWh on normal days, to above €0.04/kWh on low-wind days [1]. But you can reduce that risk through long-term contracts.

[1] Forecast for the coming week (look at the DK1/DK2 rows): [http://www.nordpoolspot.com/](http://www.nordpoolspot.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> >>> Apple supports nearly 672,000 European jobs, including 530,000 jobs directly related to the development of iOS apps.

A bit off topic and NOT just Apple related:

When corporates list such achievements as above, they need to do full disclosure like how many old type jobs are destroyed due to their actions/products/services and how much time it took for the effected people to readjust to new reality.

Press statements as above -which we see from several organizations- give the impression of all positives and no negatives which is not true. Public companies are supposed to inform complete truth to public (since some of them are shareholders) and statements as above are not complete truth. Their actions may be innovation to the organization concerned but it is not for the affected. Personally, I feel, now-a-days, modern organizations and their executives are showing the habit of abusing the word of innovation[0] for whatever they do.

This is not just applicable to Apple only but to every other organization in the world. Amazon has to list how many brick and mortar stores are effected in addition to creation of new jobs and similarly vehicle, energy companies has to list the pollution they/their products caused across the world. Cities like Beijing has polluted air and is it not human made through innovated products developed few decades before? If they are proud of positives, they should feel sorry and/or pay for negatives as applicable. Is n't it?

In some cases, measurement may not be easy or indicators/metrics are not defined yet like "number of jobs ...etc". Governments and other competent organizations need to define and enforce them just like enforcing in the cases similar to harassment/discrimination/workspace issues/environmental issues. Even reference year also needs to be defined.

Jobs alone is not indicator and it is just tip of the iceberg of the total effect due to the actions of organizations.

[0] Some background on origin and growing popularity of the usage of the word "innovation": [http://www.business- standard.com/article/opinion/r-gopalakri...](http://www.business- standard.com/article/opinion/r-gopalakrishnan-the-buzz-around- innovation-115021901257_1.html)

<comment><USER26> > they need to do full disclosure like how many old type jobs are destroyed > due to their actions

Except that in the case of Apple, they single-handedly created a whole new industry (app development), empowering individuals to be able to write software without support of, for example, an investor, publisher, or major company backing them.

As far as I can tell, the only things that Apple and smartphones and whatnot helped out of business was those crappy ringtone and text message subscription services. Of course, new laws also helped with that.

You also mention Amazon, who did introduce a ton of new entry-level jobs, yes, but if the stories coming from the order pickers are correct, they're not really great jobs. Plus Amazon is working on making those positions obsolete with further automation (robots and stuff).

<comment><USER27> Smartphones also totally marginalized GPS devices, portable music players, point and shoot cameras, portable gaming devices, heck even flashlights are less commonly used than a decade or two ago. (of course all of these products still exist in meaningful ways, but they are certainly a fraction of their former market size)

You could also say that the iPhone had a direct relation to the loss of millions of jobs at RIM/blackberry and Palm.

I don't think i agree with the parent, however, that a company should ultimately be responsible for the losses a product can create in the economy, that would create a huge disincentive for any kind of innovation. and frankly, the effects of products in this way are likely incalculable.

<comment><USER28> Phones had cameras before they became "smart". Granted they were crappy but so were the cheap cameras of that day.

And I am not sure your point and shoot camera market is dead. Lots of people still don't have smart phones.

<comment><USER27> Certainly, but an old cell phone camera wasn't a threat to a point and shoot - with features like facial recognition, flash, zoom (whether its optical or digital), video capabilities, expandable storage, ease of syncing with computer, night and other various modes.

Smartphones ushered all of those features into the device you already always carry with you.

And as i said, these markets still all exist in significant ways, but are a fraction of what they were at their height before strong competition from cell phones.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Why does it matter that your data center uses green energy?

The "green" is in the production not the consumption.

Had your center instead used a chunk of electricity from a coal plant, the windmill produced electricity instead would be consumed by someone else in the energy network leaving the environmental impact the same.

Had Apple instead sponsored a new windmill farm - then it would have been different.

<comment><USER30> From the link:

> The facility is also designed to capture excess heat from equipment inside > the facility and conduct it into the district heating system to help warm > homes in the neighboring community.

Geography matters, as you can place your data centers where cooling is efficient and where there is lots of renewable energy available/possible to be harvested.

Also, a minor nitpick: please don't say windmill, wind power plants don't mill anything.

<comment><USER8> > Also, a minor nitpick: please don't say windmill, wind power plants don't > mill anything.

Ha, I'm adding that to my list of pedantic points, never thought of it that way.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Good work Apple.

To give some balance to a press release...

I wonder what all that tax avoided money could have bought in society, and what the 3 billion 30% cut they took from developers could have done for those developers. Better apps?

Compared to other electronic manufacturers Apple products do seem to have a much longer life. Lots of people seem to use second hand Apple phones, and laptops... but not so much for other brands.

I wonder why they didn't choose colder countries? Both Denmark and Ireland do have some pretty cold parts. Since cooling is the main energy use, choosing colder countries over ones where they pay less tax would have been a better choice for the environment.

Athenry, Ireland is as far west in Europe as you can go. Meaning it is as far away from most Europeans as possible. But I guess closer to the USA. I wonder about why they chose there if they want to serve their communities best.

Viborg, Denmark makes more sense from a power generation point of view. However, since the power generation is inland it is wasting land which could be used for people and food.

<comment><USER32> This is probably the first time someone has described the west coast of Ireland as "not cold enough".

(More seriously, the choice of Ireland will be for tax reasons)

<comment><USER33> 'tax reasons' are actually why I find this most surprising. The "Double Irish" tax arrangement is being phased out, which has led some to worry that companies that are only here to take advantage of it, may move on.

Seeing the complete opposite happening is very reassuring (as a local).

<comment><USER34> The double irish is under pressure but core Corp Tax is still 12.5%. Much lower than anywhere else. so tax is a good reason to do this in Ireland.

In addition, Irish gov are talking about new R&D scheme which will be like 6-7% corp tax on companies that focus on R&D. Alot of European companies have such schemes and Ireland can't be singled out for being "dodgy" with this. I suspect Apple will benefit from this.

Of course we (being Ireland) wouldn't get all this investment if Apple (and all the other US multinationals) was allowed to repatriate profits back to the US without paying the draconian US corp tax of 35%.

Companies like Oracle, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Cisco have huge amounts of cash sitting there in their balance sheets. They spend it in other countries (and/or issue new bonds) to avoid paying the stupid 35% US corp tax.

Once the Republicans and Democrats get their act together on this, Ireland will be screwed.

<comment><USER35> I'm sure the tax makes it competitive compared others in the same time zone like London, Amsterdam or Berlin, but to me it seems to be succeeding in creating a critical mass of tech skills around Dublin that can stick beyond the taxes. If it was purely down to tax, a lot of companies could have just moved shop to Gibraltar 4 years ago.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Interview with Paul Buchheit - <AUTHOR> http://www.crazyengineers.com/small-talk/1-cover-story/78-small-talk-with-mr-paul-buchheit-creator-of-gmail-adsense-a-friendfeed

<comment><USER2> _We used Gmail internally and all had a lot of email, so we never even considered designs that wouldn't allow for a lot of mail._

Another example of the utility of eating one's own dogfood.

<comment><USER3> Is it?

I would say it's generally a good benefit to have, but I'd say the vast majority of personal email users don't use a lot of mail. Certainly not on the scale of Google engineers.

I'd call it a good selling point and competitive differentiator, but it wasn't some magical thing discovered because they were using it themselves. He said they never even considered other designs.

<comment><USER4> In terms of impact, it's much better to build a product for people who spend several hours/day using email instead of those who login once every few weeks to delete their spam. For the latter case, just about anything is good enough (even Hotmail).

<comment><USER5> Hi Paul, I am one of your fans from Egypt.

 _just about anything is good enough (even Hotmail)_ Hotmail now allows you to mark message as "read", do you believe it? They did not offer this option for years!

Anyway, I have a question for you. I am working on my startup, and I really like your approach: "launch fast and iterate"... but I am afraid of users! I am afraid from their judgements on my startup..

Do you have any solution to "get rid" of this fear?

EDIT: Even if I receive -8, I am not going to change a charachter of this!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I am _very_ big fan of Paul! This guy is more than awesome.

In everytime I read his blog, and in everytime I read something he says... I just learn something new or a good habit that I should have!</comment>


Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat" - <AUTHOR> https://www.whatsonweibo.com/chinese-media-warn-wechat-group-admins-you-can-be-arrested-for-what-happens-in-your-group-chat/ <comment><USER2> > YOU are of opinion it would be proper to establish a company of firemen in > Nicomedia, [similar] to what has been practised in several other cities. But > it is to be remembered that societies of this sort have greatly disturbed > the peace of the province in general, and of those cities in particular. > Whatever name we give them, and for whatever purposes them may be founded, > they will not fail to form themselves into factions, assemblies, however > short their meetings may be. It will therefore be safer to provide such > machines as are of service in extinguishing fires, enjoining the owners of > houses to assist in preventing the mischief from spreading, and, if it > should be necessary, to call in the aid of the populace.

( Plin. Ep. 10.34; [https://www.bartleby.com/9/4/2043.html](https://www.bartleby.com/9/4/2043.html) , or in the original at [http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0139:book=10:letter=34) )

That's the Roman Emperor Trajan denying the administrator of the province of Bithynia permission to establish a fire department. If you let men get together, for any purpose, they'll start talking about politics. It's better to let things burn.

<comment><USER3> What happens if you get women together?

<comment><USER4> Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

<comment><USER3> I have posted and do frequently see "unsubstantive" comments, but somehow the mere connotation of gender is a flag.

From a historical perspective, such a question in even its simplest form is entirely valid given the nature of gender roles in societies. Are/were conspiring women's groups more or less feared than men's? I don't know myself, and my comment was sincere in that regard.

<comment><USER5> Both you and pmontra above are completely misreading thaumasiotes's comments in a knee-jerk reaction. They were simply paraphrasing the intent of the quote from Trajan... If you have an issue with it, bring it up with Trajan.

<comment><USER6> So thaumasiotes was sarcastic here

> Women getting together is fine. Not once have groups of women ever been > known to rebel against the government.

I agree with the sarcasm. Women are generally less problematic than men but they rebel when it matters. Another example, Rosa Parks.

<comment><USER2> Speaking for myself, no, that statement is entirely serious. Women are not now and never have been a direct threat to any government. They don't fight wars.

Would Trajan have known this? Of course.

Compare your descriptions of suffragettes' terrorist activities with the research on how effective terrorist campaigns are at even getting their favored policies implemented. (And then, of course, ask yourself whether Trajan could have been aware of a 20th-century women's movement.)

<comment><USER7> Women work. Withholding labor is a threat to the state. Women were a crucial part of the civil rights movement. Women are absolutely a threat to the state.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The extremely strong freedom of speech laws we have in the US is definitely something we got right. Reading things like this make me really grateful about those protections.

<comment><USER9> except at the moment we're dealing with highly organized paid misinformation campaigns and widespread propaganda under the guise of free speech. This will not be popular on Hn but in my opinion holding users and platforms responsible for the messages they distribute to millions is the inevitable evolution and future of social media, society has demonstrated the inability to responsibly handle anonymous unchecked mass communication - anti vax is just one example and those consequences (Measles is back) are just the tip of the iceberg.

<comment><USER10> I strongly disagree. There are many ways to combat misinformation that do not involve censorship. There is nothing to applaud about oppression driven government censorship.

<comment><USER11> If I may use a bit of reduction, isn't the logical conclusion of freedom of speech that truth simply doesn't matter?

If every idea is acceptable, and I cannot face consequences for anything I say, then what difference is there between the statements "Apples are fruit" and "Apples are the square root of 45"?

Certainly, that's not the level of free speech we're at, but all this clamouring for unrestricted free speech makes me almost as worried as the threat of censorship.

<comment><USER12> You can certainly face consequences, just the government cannot be responsible for imposing them. I'd much prefer that bad and dishonest ideas be dismissed and the speakers censured by their community rather than jackbooted thugs forcing silence at gunpoint.

It's obviously not a perfect way of going about things, but I think it definitely errs in the right direction.

<comment><USER11> It's just that on the scale of the internet, the breakdown tends to be: 3X of people come out in support of your ridiculous idea, X people actively disagree and 100% - 4X ignore it, where X is some small number.

To an outside observer, you must have a good idea, after all, you have so many more people in agreement than detractors!

Which basically makes it impossible for "the community" to hand you any consequences.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This makes me think of this Reddit meme I saw in the Gaming section, the gist of it: if you mentioned some specific chinese massacre in a game with chinese players, they would all leave the game.

<comment><USER14> There is a large copy-paste block with English and Chinese spellings of "Tibet, Xinjiang Autonomous Region, Tiananmen Square Massacre 1989" that also frequently gets posted on sites like 4chan and YouTube to ward off Chinese commenters. I imagine it's not very effective, however, since these sites are blocked on the Chinese Internet, so any Chinese users would by default be posting via an encrypted VPN.

<comment><USER15> That's… one of the more interesting things I've read today.

<comment><USER4> The parent referred to "Chinese commenters" (and "ward off" was bad enough), but your comment seems to imply that they're all "CCP astroturfers". That's against the site guidelines. Would you mind reviewing them? [https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

Obviously there are real issues to be discussed here, but to do so well means we have to get good at not doing things that kill real discussion, and denigrating large groups en masse is one.

<comment><USER14> I don't know what the comment to which you've replied said originally, but it's true that China pays thousands of people to astroturf comments on the Internet. This fact has been established by the international press and also by the Chinese government. Furthermore, people in China aren't stupid, and many are aware of this phenomenon as it is quite prevalent on the domestic Chinese Internet (Weibo, WeChat, etc).

Are all positive comments about China made by the "wumao army?" Of course not. Are many such comments astroturfed (Edit for clarification: speaking of the broader Internet)? Absolutely. Would it be racist to point out the existence of the large and well-funded groups paid to make such comments? I don't think so.

Obviously, this isn't a cudgel to be used against any pro-Chinese government comment or argument. "Wumao" is often employed as a slur. But it is 100% a real phenomenon.

[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia- pacific/7783640.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7783640.stm)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army)

[https://youtu.be/yCnnPf2OnHo](https://youtu.be/yCnnPf2OnHo)

<comment><USER4> Everyone knows that's a real phenomenon. The issue I was addressing was people's tendency, unfortunately very common, to conflate every Chinese commenter, indeed anyone advocating a Chinese perspective, with CCP astroturfers. That's a serious problem on HN. (I don't think it was colanderman's intention to do this and I'm sure that's why he edited his comment after I replied to it.)

The temptation is strong, when encountering views one dislikes, to regard the person expressing them as disingenuous and pushing some sinister agenda. This is why the site guidelines explicitly say " _Please don 't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried, email us and we'll look at the data._"

As geopolitics between China and the West heat up for reasons totally beyond this site, users here need to remember that HN is an international community where all are welcome. Being welcome, among other things, means not being slurred because of your national origin, language, race, and so on. It's nice that HN feels like a small and intimate place, but it's not a living room—when you post here, you're broadcasting to an audience of millions. Many come from very different backgrounds than you or I or any of us does, and they have just as much a right to be here as you and I and any of us does.

The image of "warding off Chinese commenters", which you invoked in your comment upthread, is dismaying and exactly what we don't want here. People need to listen to each other more, not less, when there is distance between them. I don't want to be part of any site that works against that.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

<comment><USER14> Perhaps my initial word choice evoked the wrong assumptions. Allow me me rephrase.

I've related a dismaying image because the reality is dismaying. One group of (mostly awful and hateful) Internet users "wards off" another by copy-pasting what are to them, for all intents and purposes, magical runes. Scribe them down and the others disappear, banished by some arcane and unseen force. The crazy thing is that these runes may _actually work_ , because the targeted users live under a system of censorship and surveillance unprecedented in its scope, scale, and level of detail.

That's nuts. It's utterly fascinating. It's (the block-text posting) not behavior to be emulated anywhere on HN. It is absolutely dismaying. And as a story, it's also completely on-topic and within site guidelines.

<comment><USER15> For context, the comment I edited out was a joke on the "magical runes" aspect. But, thinking it in poor taste to use the Chinese people in general as the butt of the joke, I framed it specifically about astroturfers. In context (and, given that said "runes" don't recognize such a distinction), the joke did (unintentionally) read as an implication that all Chinese are astroturfers, as dang rightfully indicated; hence my redaction.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I guess:

1.Most people who can not read Chinese believe "detained" or "arrested" is on the photo of the newspaper as a proof. Is it true? Ask your friend who can read Chinese what the head line says. If the author was honest, she should explicitly stated that "detained" or "arrested" is from other source but not from the image. She is manipulating readers perception while she can claim she didn't lie.

2.No body notice the date of the newspaper is missing. If I say this is quite old news , would anybody be supprised? Is the missing date accidental?

Here's my anecdonal experiance:

It the photo true? Yes.

Is CPP tighten the control of WeChat? Yes, Just as the photo shows. a while ago. There's no warning of arrest though.

Are there any WeChat admin arrested that public know? Yes, somebody selling pornagraphy content.

Are there any trouble with WeChat groups because of politics? Yes. I have been inside at least 2 groups with many members havning strong anti-government sentiments. The consequence is the groups were shut down because of many anti- CPP content. The admins openned another group , hand picked up all the old members into the new group because the "shut down" was that anybody in the group can only see his/her own words but not others. The admin can still access all the members information.

What do we behave in the new group? Still the same but use twiseted expression that anybody knows meaning while avoid automated censorship. No human really read messages to detect sensitive word but robot. Usually replace some words sounds the same but wrong characters.

What if you can not help expressing anger against government? Don't do it in group but in your "Moment" and use images with text content instead of text that robot can detect. Even most Chinese believe this can cause trouble from government but one of my friend did this all the time. Nobody from government pay attention to him.

I totally against censorship. But I also don't like media selling their own ideaology with disinformation. Tell truth please.

<comment><USER17> > No body notice the date of the newspaper is missing

The article itself mentioned a date, Oct 8, 2017, when the "new" regulation come into effect. So yes, this is old news.

Reading the article in Chinese, I do understand that the main focus of the new article is cracking down illegal activities like distributing pornography (which is illegal in China), gambling, scamming, etc, which are problems on the social networks that are quite important to solve.

I didn't see anywhere in the Chinese article that mentioned "politically sensitive information", "bring news about Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan that has not been reported by official news channels", publish "military information." The sentence "spread rumors" is mentioned in combination with "scamming" and should be focusing on "scamming" part.

But again, there's nothing surprising that western media interpret this in a completely different way. That's just one thing they all love to do.

<comment><USER2> > illegal activities like distributing pornography, gambling, scamming, etc, > which are problems on the social networks that are quite important to solve

Distributing pornography happens all over, right on the street. And on the regular internet, outside of chat groups.

I would not say that distribution of pornography through private chat groups rises to the level of "important to solve" given the infinite other very easy ways to get it.

<comment><USER17> Well, different country, different laws

<comment><USER2> Different country? I'm talking about China. And you?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> > it is not allowed, as this article lists, to post "politically sensitive > information", "spread rumors," "bring news about Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan > that has not been reported by official news channels,"

Well that's just Orwellian...

<comment><USER19> Those words are never in the Chinese report being referenced, and I have to call out this article being just a lie

<comment><USER20> Maybe they changed the link, but now it's definitely there:

1、政治敏感话题不发 don't post on politically sensitive topics

2、不信谣不传谣 don't believe rumors, don't spread rumors

3、所谓的内部资料不发 don't post so-called internal information

4、涉黄、涉毒、涉爆等不发 don't post content involving pornography, illegal drugs or explosives etc.

5、有关港澳台新闻在官方网站未发布前不发 don't post news about Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan before it has been reported by official websites

6、军事资料不发 don't post military information

7、有关涉及国家机密文件不发 don't post state secrets

8、来源不明的疑似伪造的黑警辱警的小视频不发 don't post suspected fake videos of unclear origin that smear the police (search 南应 on YouTube for a recent example of what's probably meant by this)

9、其他违反相关法律法规的信息不发 don't post other information that violates related laws or regulations

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Censorship coming soon to a neighborhood near you. You don't have to look too far to point fingers at censorship. Our Social Media overlords just banned "conspiracy theorists". What if I like watching conspiracy theories for the heck of it because the MSM is nauseating merchant of "truth".

<comment><USER22> My rule of thumb is that people who get banned for saying "out there" stuff are controlled opposition and people who get banned for saying common sense and obvious stuff are real opposition.

<comment><USER23> What's common sense and what's out there depends on the reader.

<comment><USER22> That's by design. By keeping it vague it becomes more broadly applicable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Man am I glad I live in a country with strong freedom of speech protections.

</comment><comment><USER25> There is something like this in Malaysia as well, under the previous government. The way that some people deal with this is make everybody admin.

</comment><comment><USER26> It's basically another way to spread fear to encourage self censorship. If admins believe they are liable for anything non-kosher, then they'd actively censor it themselves to avoid potential wrath.

Throw in a few news articles of someone being arrested for a trivial group post, and it becomes an example of 杀一儆百 which translates as "to kill 1 as a warning to 100"

<comment><USER27> Predictable consequence of the GDPR: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18863496](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18863496)

<comment><USER28> Sorry but, what does the GDPR have to do with this story about China? China doesn't care what laws Europe writes.

<comment><USER27> I didn't mean to imply they are subject to it. It's another example of something new assisting the self-censorship trend (as noted in the story the commentator I linked to gave).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> If you run a group and allow criminal activity to continue on that group without moderating said activity, why wouldn't you be held responsible?

</comment><comment><USER30> This is why full end to end encryption is required.

<comment><USER31> How do you know someone in the group chat isn't a spy for the government?

<comment><USER32> How do you know the government does not already have the root cert anyway

<comment><USER33> I hope some day we have RISCV phones where you can swap processors and all software is auditable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> real-hacker A few years back, some software is banned from Chinese internet because its release number is 6.4

<comment><USER34> Source?

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> We are biased on HN to consider technological solutions to an ideological problem: there are powerful people who benefit from sowing distrust. Ideally, the Chinese leadership wants each citizen afraid of their neighbors.

This is easier to do in a society when large family ties are much weaker (due to one child policy).

<comment><USER36> From my experience, China and most of Asia has _very_ strong family ties as a core tenet of their culture.

<comment><USER35> Yes, very strong small family ties.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> So, no Winnie the Pooh fan fiction groups? Damn.

</comment><comment><USER38> Make everyone an admin of the group!

</comment><comment><USER39> In the UK you can be arrested for teaching your girlfriend's pug to heil as a joke.

<comment><USER40> While the prosecution was dumb (it was clearly a joke), he did turn out to be a huge right wing racist anyway

<comment><USER8> Is it an American thing to not care if someone is a "______" when talking about their protected rights?

<comment><USER40> Im far from American however

<comment><USER29> Hence the question.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> This has already been happening in India under the current govt

Any Anti PM post gets the Whatsapp admin arrested under National Security Act!

Of course, there must be some stupid party supporter who probably had to file a case or something.

This will be worse as it'll be automatic as China MITM's everything

<comment><USER42> Pretty interesting comment. Let me see a reputable source which backs up 'anti pm message arrest under national security act'. I googled those and found just one arrest in a state which said

> Asked why Shinde had been suspended, Sharma said, "He has not been suspended > just for the message. In the past, too, complaints were received against him > for favouring certain political party person and showing political > inclination. The WhatsApp message he posted is one of the reasons why he has > been suspended." Asked what exactly did he mean by showing political > inclination, Sharma said, "I won't be able to give all the details. But the > past complaints and WhatsApp message are the reasons he has been suspended."

source: [https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumbai- const...](https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumbai-constable- suspended-for-sharing-anti-pm-message-on-whatsapp-4892293/)

<comment><USER43> Forgive my naivety, but aren't Whatsapp messages encrypted? If so, how can the authorities see what's written in them?

<comment><USER44> I thought only 1-to-1 messages were encrypted and group chat wasn't.

<comment><USER45> Whatsapp does E2E for groups, which have upto 256 members. A Matrix dev said they scaled E2E to groups with thousands.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> British media: you can be arrested for makes jokes on twitter or calling a woman a woman.</comment>


Rescuing America's roadside giants - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36534695 <comment><AUTHOR> I feel in Michigan growing up we missed some of this era. However we still have:

Paul Bunyan and babe:

[http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2125](http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2125)

The UniRoyal Tire

[http://www.uniroyaltires.com/about/gianttire.html](http://www.uniroyaltires.com/about/gianttire.html)

World's largest stove (sadly it burned after being restored)

[http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-world-s-largest- stove](http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-world-s-largest-stove)

Last my beloved alma mater's Sparty of which there are now two

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparty)</comment>


Elliptic Curves as Python Objects - <AUTHOR> https://jeremykun.com/2014/02/24/elliptic-curves-as-python-objects/ <comment><USER2> This post is part of a series of 8 posts on ECC and its applications, and for those interested you can find all the posts in the series under "Cryptography" here: [https://jeremykun.com/main-content/](https://jeremykun.com/main- content/)

<comment><USER3> I really enjoy your blog. When are you going to publish a math book for programmers, covering a broad selection of programming-related math topics? I think you mentioned this possibility in a past blog post. I'd buy it.

I'll also make note of your Patreon:

[https://www.patreon.com/user?u=615882](https://www.patreon.com/user?u=615882)

<comment><USER2> 250 pages in, and slowly chugging along. Join the mailing list, if you want updates and a preview (when it's ready): [http://jeremykun.us11.list- manage.com/subscribe?u=99aa071e97...](http://jeremykun.us11.list- manage.com/subscribe?u=99aa071e97df95d3a140b1a3f&id=fbe11f6b59)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> If you like this you may possibly enjoy my blog post about creating an elliptic curve for cryptographic use (for fun): [http://blog.bjrn.se/2015/07/lets-construct-elliptic- curve.ht...](http://blog.bjrn.se/2015/07/lets-construct-elliptic-curve.html)

I also have a lot of elliptic curve code for Python here: [https://github.com/bjornedstrom/elliptic-curve-chemistry- set](https://github.com/bjornedstrom/elliptic-curve-chemistry-set)

</comment><comment><USER5> See also elliptic curves in the great SageMath: [http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/curves/sage/scheme...](http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/curves/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/constructor.html) [http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/curves/sage/scheme...](http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/curves/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_point.html)

</comment><comment><USER6> this inspired me to write similar code for julia.

[https://gist.github.com/ityonemo/2eca5fe5854ca6ef1154c896d79...](https://gist.github.com/ityonemo/2eca5fe5854ca6ef1154c896d79f5a36)

One of the really nice things about the julia is (I think) that it should allow you to seamlessly use the same code to transition to finite fields by overloading the / operation.

Also, each time you build a new EC, the typesystem will JIT the A & B constants, so instead of a lookup, it's an immediate constant in the machine code.

The tradeoff with julia is that all concrete types must be leaf types, so you can't overload the standard EC point with the ideal (zero point). On the one hand, that does make your code a bit convoluted - you're effectively unrolling the type checking that python is doing behind the scenes. On the other hand, the performance implications for not having to muck around with complicated type graph traversals should be fairly obvious.

edit: indeed it's fairly easy with a trivial prime field implementation.

[https://gist.github.com/ityonemo/c74ebd8a968e5fc7826762bf6a4...](https://gist.github.com/ityonemo/c74ebd8a968e5fc7826762bf6a442e6a)

</comment><comment><USER7> Notice that there is a RosettaCode entry about it:

[http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_arithmetic](http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_arithmetic)

</comment><comment><USER8> Wouldn't it make more sense to make `point` a factory method on instances of curves?

<comment><USER2> Personally, I have always found these patterns make more sense in a large- scale engineering context (to avoid others misusing a library) than a primer whose goal is to teach one about math. I don't think anyone would realistically use this code for a production application (it's quite slow, and vulnerable to certain timing attacks anyway)

<comment><USER9> While _dkarapetyan_ used the term factory, which awakes deep rooted emotions in anyone who learned Java at university, the point is not really one of using a pattern or not (even though the pattern may make sense here).

If you have a curve already, it makes sense to get one of its points. Having a method on the curve class that gives you a point would be just as easy, if not easier, than creating the point and passing in a reference to the curve.

The reason you might use a factory is because we have different kinds of points being returned (Point and Ideal) - why not use a factory do return the correct one? The reason of course, which may not be obvious, is that these are points in a projective space and the ideal point doesn't have an (x,y) representation. (x,y) really means [x:y:1] and the ideal point is [0:1:0].

So using a `factory` is not necessary, as you know when you are creating the point what type it will be (either Point or Ideal) - there is no case where you would get the Ideal and not already know that it is the Ideal (at the point of object creation, that is).</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What is your opinion about Google Stadia? - <AUTHOR> Hype or Flop? <comment><USER2> Not interested into gaming as a service at all but do hope that it encourages making even more games to be native GNU/Linux games.</comment>


I was offered $1M for my Go package – and I said No - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@matryer/i-was-offered-1-million-for-my-go-package-and-i-said-no-57f358e2755e#.hjmxjrby0 <comment><USER2> I'm going to assume that the end of the article is hinting that there is some sort of IP battle over the Go package in question i/e perhaps OP mistakenly worked on the project during work hours or over company bandwidth.

Either way, should have taken the Benjamins.</comment>


Does Web Host server location matter if using CloudFlare? - <AUTHOR>

I currently have an account with 97cents.net and am puchasing a second as their service to date has been exactly what I require.
They have just started offering EU hosting in Luxembourg which they claim is not subject to DMCA takedown enforcement and is better suited to freedom of speech and customer privacy.
As I am not in the EU, I don't really want to host there, but if I use CloudFlare, will than mean that I get the benefit of locally hosted content with the protection of Luxembourg Privacy? <comment><USER2> Except for the US, no country is subject to a DMCA takedown enforcement from a purely legal point of view. Of course, local law (which might have similar implication as what the DMCA aims at) is still applicable.

As to the location, CloudFlare basically works as a proxy. The further the server is away the higher latency can/will be. However given that CloudFlare does cache certain resources, it will decrease the importance of location a tad. Only for static/cachable resources though, everything dynamically generated will still have the same latency.</comment>


WYSIHTML5: A better approach to rich text editing - <AUTHOR> http://xing.github.com/wysihtml5/ Open source rich text editor based on HTML5 and the progressive-enhancement approach. Uses a sophisticated security concept and aims to generate fully valid HTML5 markup by preventing unmaintainable tag soups and inline styles.
Twitter Bootstrap Plugin: http://jhollingworth.github.com/bootstrap-wysihtml5/ <comment><USER2> I'm using the Twitter Bootstrap styled version of this in a current project. It looks stunning: <http://jhollingworth.github.com/bootstrap-wysihtml5/>

<comment><USER3> Cool! That's the first thing that hit my mind - how would this look in bootstrap? Thanks for doing and sharing this!

<comment><USER2> Just to be clear. I didn't write this! I just used it.

The credit for writing this goes to James Hollingworth: <https://github.com/jhollingworth>

<comment><USER4> Thanks :) Glad you like it!

<comment><USER5> Thanks for this. I would most definitely use this on my website. The only thing missing is the ability to add youtube embed code. Any way to make that happen?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> On a side note, it's worth mentioning W3C has a working group to standardize in-browser HTML editing (<http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/editing/raw- file/tip/editing.html>).

The spec is still not settled, but safe to use as a guideline for an implementation. If libraries align their command API implementations with the specs, it would be easy for them to port to use native commands as the browser support gets strong.

</comment><comment><USER7> Wouldn't it be more desirable to have these WYSIWYG editors serialize to a non-HTML markup (like textile or markdown) to reduce the hassle of user-input sanitization on the back-end? (e.g. stripping script and iframe tags). What's best-practice these days for storing and displaying rich-edit user input?

<comment><USER6> Depends on the use case. If you are using it in as a website authoring tool, it makes sense to store the rich-edit user input as HTML itself.

However, in a scenario like commenting or composing a message (where only limited editing options are available), storing in a format such as Markdown make sense.

<comment><USER8> Are you aware of any such editor that does store the data in Markdown or something similar?

<comment><USER9> Take a look at bergie's Hallo editor:

<http://bergie.github.com/hallo/markdown.html>

He also has an interesting project called Create:

<http://createjs.org/>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Whenever I see "new rich HTML editor", I notice that there is no table editing. What's the point of editor that is missing the most needed function? You could argue that it is not needed, however lack of this function leads to cases of copy-paste from word/excel with bad markup.

<comment><USER6> Aloha handles Tables perfectly (including merge/split of rows & columns, plus pasting from Microsoft Word).

Check the demo - [http://aloha- editor.org/builds/development/latest/src/demo/b...](http://aloha- editor.org/builds/development/latest/src/demo/boilerplate/)

<comment><USER11> Looks nice, but the Aloha licensing basically requires you to buy a license if you're going to use it commercially, whereas this one uses the very simple and open MIT license.

<comment><USER12> Furthermore, I've been trying to get them to sell me a commercial license for months. Someone sometimes emails me back, but they have yet to give me a way to give them money.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Looking at the examples, I don't understand how this is "a better approach" to editing, because the HTML it outputs does not follow best practices. The HTML it outputs should look like a competent human had authored it, but currently it uses line-break hacks for paragraphs instead of semantic paragraph elements (two <br> elements aren't really a paragraph, it just looks like it), adds underline elements with Ctrl+U (these should be reserved for links and defined in stylesheets anyway) etc.

</comment><comment><USER14> Valid HTML5 markup? It's certainly not semantic.  should be ,  should be

<comment><USER15> You might want to take a look at this:

[http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current- work/multipage/...](http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current- work/multipage/text-level-semantics.html#the-b-element)

<comment><USER16> You might want to read this bit from that section: "The b element should be used as a last resort when no other element is more appropriate. In particular, headings should use the h1 to h6 elements, stress emphasis should use the em element, importance should be denoted with the strong element, and text marked or highlighted should use the mark element."

From the looks of it - while just about legal, it's the worst option going.  etc are far more preferable and 'right'

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I like it a lot. It's fast, not bloated, and has a decent feature set. I could see myself implementing this.

</comment><comment><USER18> Very nice. We discussed a lot whether to use the same  approach on text editing when working a project of ours called Quabel. In the end, we went even further with a pure DOM-based editor (via contenteditable) and no hidden <textarea>. However, we encountered lots of cross-browser issues because of the differences in contenteditable behavior when using FF / Chrome / Opera and later dropped contenteditable alltogether. I chuckled when noticing the odd editor behavior when pressing backspace at the beginning of a list item because we had exactly the kind of oddities.

</comment><comment><USER19> This is a fantastic rich text editor, easily one of the best I've seen. If I remember correctly, 37signals uses it in the note writing feature of the new Basecamp.

<comment><USER20> Correct.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> A little related: If anyone is interested I've been working on a WYSI-Markdown editor. [http://draftbin.com/c3993540679e0a1af4e5704a208b60ceb46d20dc...](http://draftbin.com/c3993540679e0a1af4e5704a208b60ceb46d20dc/)

Haven't gotten around to a github repo or fixing some pretty annoying bugs. But, there it is.

</comment><comment><USER22> Feature request - ability to add 'notes' to a document. I'd imagine these as toggleable divs that would be able to be inserted anywhere in the doc, then made visible or not by toggling a class. When 'on' the visible portion would just be a small box/space/marker that, when clicked, opened up a larger div with the full note.

I'd tried to do this with the YUI and Dojo editors a couple years ago, but my JS-fu wasn't good enough. I'm possibly better now, and maybe wil try my hand at adding that to this editor (which looks nice for a lot of applications) but someone else with better skills could probably lay the foundation for a 'notes' system much better than me :)

<comment><USER23> > Feature request - ability to add 'notes' to a document. I'd imagine these as > toggleable divs that would be able to be inserted anywhere in the doc, then > made visible or not by toggling a class. When 'on' the visible portion would > just be a small box/space/marker that, when clicked, opened up a larger div > with the full note.

I think this suggestion fully qualifies as something they don't want to do, "[to create] unmaintainable tag soups and inline styles".

<comment><USER22> Who said inline styles? A class and an ID on a span tag inside a larger block would be all that's required. The clicking stuff would be applied outside of the document editing area.

This is the sort of reaction that makes me hesitant to even attempt to fork/patch it, because if this sort of thing wouldn't be accepted back in to the main trunk, I'm stuck maintaining a separate branch.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Looking at the examples, I don't understand how this is "a better approach" to editing, because the HTML it outputs does not follow best practices. The HTML it outputs should look like a competent human had authored it, but currently it uses line-break hacks for paragraphs instead of semantic paragraph elements (two <br> elements aren't really a paragraph, it just looks like it), adds underline elements with Ctrl+U (underlines should be reserved for links and defined in stylesheets anyway) etc.

<comment><USER24> Want good WYSIWYG html? Try out Apple Pages, export to E-Pub, extract and look at the xhtml files. After pretty printing it's almost like human authored. It seems that we still need the Apples and Adobes of this world.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> How is it doing the speech input for Chrome? Is this an offline API provided by Chrome or backed by a Google web api?

<comment><USER26> <http://slides.html5rocks.com/#speech-input>

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> This is very nice! And it feels very light weight, too. I've been looking for a saner rich text editor for a while...

</comment><comment><USER28> We really need to escape the tyranny of the browser "design mode," with all its quirks. These RTEs are really lipstick on a pig, sadly.

Does anyone know of a JavaScript RTE that does all the text layout and formatting itself using pure JS?

<comment><USER29> The RTE for Google Docs is written in Javascript, bypassing design mode:

[http://googledocs.blogspot.com/2010/05/whats-different- about...](http://googledocs.blogspot.com/2010/05/whats-different-about-new- google-docs.html)

The code isn't officially released anywhere, but someone grabbed the source, prettied it up, and put it up here: <https://github.com/benjamn/kix- standalone> Obviously you can't use it for anything without a proper license.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> wysihtml5 is a decent editor. It's fairly lightweight in comparison to the other editors. I feel that its approach to DOM changes makes it easier to create cross-browser consistency. However, I feel the event system could really use some work and I find myself working against the editor to add new features. I would prefer if the framework made it easier to add new features rather than having to change the core to get the desired result. (and maybe I just need to spend more time with it.)

Oh, and I should add that the built-in parser isn't very flexible and requires lengthy configuration.

<comment><USER31> Could you go into a little bit more detail on how you think it compares to other editors?

And more specifically: what are your thoughts on the Aloha editor?

<comment><USER30> The problem I have with most editors is that they try to be like a piece of desktop software. "Install me and get all of these features including themes and plugins." That's not what I want. I want an API. I want a consistent cross-browser approach to wysiwyg html editing that doesn't weigh in at 200+k minified.

What does Aloha come in at? (Web Inspector is telling me 1.6MB!)

I haven't used Aloha but my impression is that it's trying to be like all the other editors like TinyMCE or CKEditor.

wysihtml5 is lightweight, which is nice. It provides a command API so that I can wire up commands to my own toolbar and provides state management. But I don't like that some built-in commands don't offer up enough externalization, like autolinking. Or that I can't cancel an event like beforecommand. beforecommand doesn't even tell me what command is being fired. (or if it does, I couldn't find out how.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Creating a simple editor which works, seems to be quiet hard, judging based on all the horrible examples we have of existing ones. Hopefully, they'll keep it clean and don't add many new features.

<comment><USER32> It's hard, especially if you want to support IE8. You need a 100-line function simply to get cursor position in a cross-browser fashion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> "(…) It uses a sophisticated security concept (…)" —Does anybody know what does this mean? Does this concept have a name, a description or anything?

<comment><USER34> As far as I can tell, it's referring to the sandboxed iframe.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> The only way to add an image is to enter a URL? An upload feature would be great, most of my sites / clients require it.

</comment><comment><USER36> IE in browser support: IE8+

yay ;-)

<comment><USER37> Out of curiosity is it working in IE8 for you? Doesn't appear to fully work for me using IE8 on XP. The editor buttons and most of the page don't appear.

<comment><USER38> The editing does work for me, no buttons show but I am not sure if the demo is tailored to show that off.

On IE7 nothing really happens.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Any idea if/how this integrates w/ Vanilla Forums?

</comment><comment><USER40> I desperately want this as a Wordpress plugin.

</comment><comment><USER41> Now make a WYSILatex editor in html5 :)</comment>


Ask HN: Should I install Hadoop/Spark/IPython in Docker? - <AUTHOR> I have several machines that I want to quickly setup to have Spark and Jupyter Notebook. Is it a good practice to install everything with Docker or is there an alternative? <comment><USER2> Seems like you might want to read up a bit about virtualization vs containers.

Tldr; For performance where you will run the OS directly on the hardware (or in virtual machines) and install the same services with the same config on all machines look into a CM tool like Rex ([https://www.rexify.org](https://www.rexify.org)).

For massive scaling out services look into cluster managers for Docker like Kubernetes. It will be a steep learning curve if you have no experience.</comment>