Public comments considered harmful - <AUTHOR> http://madhadron.com/public-comments-considered-harmful

<comment><USER2> He seems to be trying to portray himself as a victim here, but he acknowledges that he was the initiator - he spoke out stridently, insultingly in violent and profane language against a whole field. He then explains how terribly he was treated (even though in most of his actual numbers there's a pretty good balance between positive and neutral comments), and characterises it as a "low quality discourse"

His solution is to keep doing it but avoid "public unmoderated fora" because then he can initiate all the monkey dances he wants and apparently he believes people will then civilly discuss what he has said.

I would propose he continue to post publicly (there were valuable things in what he wrote) but if he avoids profanity, insults, extreme and disrespectful statements then he probably won't initiate monkey dances.

NB: the thread about "only two computationally difficult problems" is worth a read as there is definitely more there than his characterisation would leave you to believe:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5123746>

<comment><USER3> _He seems to be trying to portray himself as a victim here_

I don't see that; it doesn't seem like he cares about the comments at all except as an indicator that it's not worth his time participating in public fora. Which is a judgment call he's entirely entitled to make for himself.

 _he spoke out stridently, insultingly in violent and profane language against a whole field._

Intended for an audience that was used to his rants, and could take what he said in context. He wasn't the one who posted it to reddit.

 _avoid "public unmoderated fora" because then he can initiate all the monkey dances he wants and apparently he believes people will then civilly discuss what he has said._

Which is what the group he intended the rant for did. In other words, what he did was not a "monkey dance", and his "belief" was based on actual fact.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> "I agree with the author on all points" is a much less interesting post to write than "I think the author is wrong because X." Indeed, even if I agree with an author, I will occasionally post some criticism, unconsidered edge case, or even try to defend an opposing/unpopular theory. I usually hope that by doing so, I get some criticism of my criticism; I'm really just interested in mentally exploring the topic.

If you asked me the question "When would I ever want to seek public comment?" I would answer "Whenever you want criticism." I will also add that the tone of your writing __will __be reflected in the responses. If you say to the internet: "Fuck you, bioinformatics. Eat shit and die." Expect the general reaction to be "Fuck you too" regardless of how right you are.

<comment><USER5> > _"even if I agree with an author, I will occasionally post some criticism > [etc]"_

I would classify that as positive or neutral. It seems the original author would also classify "substantive criticism" (his words) or "constructive criticism" that way. But he notes that none of the criticism he received was of value, consisting mostly of insults and straw men, which are rightly classified as negative.

His tone may at least be partially to blame. But I've witnessed the larger pattern in plenty of circumstances where tone is not a problem -- it's easy to get insulting, empty criticism from strangers, but it's hard to find _substantive_ criticism except in places that intentionally foster it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I think the concept of "group monkey dance" is a good one- mainly, I think its insightful to point out that people will collectively be much crueler to someone than any of them would be on their own. This is something us nerds are intimately familiar with from uncomfortable social settings in highschool, but it didn't occur to me that the same dynamic might be at work in big internet discussions.

<comment><USER3> _it didn't occur to me that the same dynamic might be at work in big internet discussions._

Really? How many "big internet discussions" have you participated in?

<comment><USER6> My point was that it didn't occur to me that people might be meaner in big online discussions because of the group monkey dance.

<comment><USER3> I understand, but my question still stands. I've been participating in online discussions for many years now, and I saw this pattern very early on. I didn't call it the "group monkey dance", but that just means I didn't know that name for the pattern. The pattern itself was obvious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If you only look at what you are looking at, you'll get discouraged. I've had a few items on sites that got completely destroyed in the comment sections, but a month later, I still have several visitors from those sites on those same articles, and many of them are returning visitors. So, while your initial analysis is correct, I think you will find the long-term surprising. The finding is that despite all the negative comments, the vast majority of the readers actually do like it, but they aren't going to speak up against the maelstrom.

</comment><comment><USER8> In this thread: People posting negative comments with no sense of irony.

<comment><USER9> I don't see the irony. I don't agree with the whole premise that people reacted negatively in public because of the monkey dancing thing.

Another explanation, IMO much more likely, is that people who disagreed with his claims simply chose not engage him in private due to the tone of the rant. Maybe his coworkers and collaborators find it very well to be told to "rot in your computational shit heap", but for most outsiders this sort of thing doesn't signal a willingness to have a polite conversation.

Besides, the top 3 comments on the reddit thread, while "negative" and not thoroughly polite, also addressed some of OP's points and provided information for people interested in the field.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I must say I find the ratio of positive:neutral:negative comments on Reddit vs Hacker News (1:16:24 vs 21:119:21) to be spot on. It's one of the reasons I absolutely love HN (going meta here and a little off-topic!): well-phrased dissenting views are just as likely to be featured and upvoted as the "common take" and on _most_ topics, there is no substantial "group think" effect.

It's also my biggest problem with Reddit, you get instakarma for simply being a d^H jerk or off-topic. I'd like to see this kind of comparison more often, esp. with more data points (17 comments on Reddit is not enough).

Also interesting would be a fourth category being "off-topic" for comments that have absolutely nothing to do with the OP, but somehow propagate like wild fire on certain forums. (Ironic, since this very post is off-topic, no? :smirk:)

<comment><USER11> That ratio is misleading for Reddit since it was posted on a bioinformatics specific subreddit. Of course they were going to be more negative.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> People copy frustration from each other [1] - that is why public speaking and writing needs to be careful. In general people know the rules and they used to speak and write differently depending on the audience and they used to put a lot of work into public speaking/writing to avoid provoking the 'monkey dances'. The internet somehow blurs the distinction, there is so much public writing that we don't have time to put that extra effort, and also it feels like it is private writing - that is why we have flamewars ([http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/online-conflict-in-the- light-o...](http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/online-conflict-in-the-light-of- mimetic-theory/2009/11/25)).

It was a mistake that his rant addressed to his friends was posted publicly, but I am also sure that with some effort it could be made less flamebaiting.

1\. See the mimetic theory by Rene Girard - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Girard>

</comment><comment><USER13> People are inherently critical. Maybe it's some evolutionary effect for human survival, but either way we're all prey. No one is going to agree with you on 100% of the issues, 100% of the time. That's not how the world works. All of us have different influences from different lives and draw different conclusions. A majority may disagree with a minority, but that doesn't give the majority the right to silence opposition. Difference is fundamental to discourse.

</comment><comment><USER14> I really like the advice he left at the bottom of the post.</comment>


Instagram, value and hard work - <AUTHOR> http://lancewiggs.com/2012/04/10/instagram-value-and-hard-work/

<comment><USER2> Pretty poor analysis of today's events.

1\. Misunderstands the 1st rule of breakthrough consumer internet companies. The challenge is always getting users and almost never monetizing a loyal user base. This happened with Yahoo, Amazon, Google, Facebook...strange that people still bring up this argument.

With a flip of a switch the Instagram team could put a banner ad and make >$10M/year but they decided to pursue a more native business model that will take time.

2\. Myspace didn't fail because of some inherent problem with their model, they failed because their team was unable to compete with Facebook.

It's true that Instagram could suffer a Myspace fate but the data so far suggests they're more like the Facebook of their space then the Myspace.

3\. This is the worst point. Every startup has a random success multiplier but Instagram was big enough that the high order bit was their hardwork (persistence) and talent.</comment>


Tell me what kind of product you wish would have existed - <AUTHOR> Tell me what kind of product you wish would have existed and I will try to build it for you <comment><USER2> A Chrome extension that changes the behavior of clicking on an email hyperlink. When I click on the domain part of the email address, I want it to take me to that domain's website. When I click on the first part of the email, it performs the regular mailto action.

<comment><USER3> Another validation. I literally thought of the same thing 20 mins ago. Always a pain to open the URL from an email hyperlink.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I want something like a Herman Miller Embody or Aeron but with a working toilet built into the base of the seat that maybe runs to a septic tank on the back rest or something. I waste a lot of time getting up to use the restroom.

<comment><USER5> Now that I think of it, I'd like something like this too. Would pay $100 more for this type of seat. OP, you asked for an idea, now you got it. Go build it... wait, you were waiting for someone to say a To-Do list for cats?

<comment><AUTHOR> hahaha, This one was really helpful and something probably I would have never thought of, but now that I think about it, I would also like to use something like this. Even I spend a lot of my time going to toilet again and again.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Fall in love with the problem, not the solution.

</comment><comment><USER7> A modular, customisable build server that lets me set up my build system the way I want it without forcing some system on me. And it should have a nice, customisable UI & Dashboard built in.

</comment><comment><USER8> Predict the stock market ... sports results, especially horse races.

</comment><comment><USER9> Tool having the ability to measure emotions.

</comment><comment><USER10> A product which tells me what other people actually want.</comment>


edited to remove - <AUTHOR> edited <comment><USER2> The answer is...it depends.

Ownership of 0.5% equity sounds like "Advisory" shares or "Scientific Advisory Board" which is common for non-full-time participants. However, your stake should be fair in the context of the entire company.

Firstly - You said the company is based on your research, do you mean market research or actual scientific research? Is the scientific research published or secret? If secret research, would the company end up owning your research or would you own it and license it to the company? If the company is based on actual scientific research that you did and you own (e.g., cure for disease, new way to make transistors, etc), you should be getting a lot more, probably in the form of a license fee based on the startup selling their embodiment of your research. If you are literally handing over non-published original research or trade secrets you should be getting a lot more.

Next, 0.5% might be fair, but only if everyone else is getting a fair deal. Your other co-founders -- are they working full-time on the startup? If not, they should not get a lion's share of the equity. If they are, then they should get a large share of the equity. Regardless, everyone should be on a vesting schedule (perhaps 4yrs?) so they dont just outright own a large chunk of equity but rather earn it by working full-time on the startup. As soon as others go non-full-time, they should fall back to just whatever equity vested. This ensures that your co-founders who have large ownership dont walk away (like you) 3mo later, except with an un-earned conveniently large ownership.

Some of this is also dependent on money put into the business. Did you and/or your co-founders invest money into the startup or is it just sweat equity/research? If you invested cash into the business, you deserve more than 0.5%.

Finally, the whole bit of many students working on this for 40+hrs a week seems questionable -- are they being compensated for the work? Who actually owns the work, them, the University, or the startup? Is there an agreement that lays out the ownership and consideration for work? As an investor, i'd stay far away from this company because if it gets popular/large/valuable enough to warrant legal action, I can see either the [slave] students or the University claiming partial ownership over the company's assets. If all this is verbal only, my gut tells me the "startup" is doomed for failure...or...someone is going to get a raw deal. With these things, a shrewed co-founder often claims the business is shutting down and then secretly forms another business with the work/assets/research and get a fresh start and cleans house of any legacy. I'd go with a real startup that lays out ownership, compensation, rights, licenses, etc.</comment>


'Twitter troll' arrested for tweeting joke about tragedy that left six dead - <AUTHOR> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/glasgow-bin-lorry-crash-twitter-4867313

<comment><USER2> regardless of how ridiculous this guys comment is, an offensive twitter comment is no reason to arrest a person. public ridicule, sure. government involvement, absolutely not.

<comment><USER3> Yeah, well, that's why the US included freedom of speech and of the press in our written down Constitution. No right to arrest for "suspicion of making a malicious communication", the malice has to go beyond what appears to be the case here, e.g. imminent threat, or harassment.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: mother developper - <AUTHOR>

From a total tech desert, I'm trying to find a talented dev taking parenting seriously. Where would you look? My project here http://igg.me/at/SayKids <comment><USER2> elance</comment>


Tell HN: It's time, 2 Twitter apps up for sale on Flippa - <AUTHOR>

I've been going back and forth for a while about whether or not to do this, but it's time. Selling UseQwitter.com and TweetSaver.com on Flippa... no reserve, you bid you buy.. 2x1!<p>http://bit.ly/apps4sale <comment><USER2> You're going to have a hard time selling a site without significant revenue on Flippa. I would recommend removing the listing until you've tested monetization strategies(maybe small sponsored links in the emails you send). If you sell this site only on the promise of revenue potential, you won't get anywhere near $75K.

<comment><AUTHOR> first bid is in at $5,000... reserve is met.. it will sell for whatever the bids come in at and I'll be happy with it.</comment></comment>


Pasco, Florida's predictive policing system monitors and harasses residents - <AUTHOR> https://www.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/police-pasco-sheriff-targeted/intelligence-led-policing/ <comment><USER2> "Last summer, the Sheriff's Office announced plans to begin keeping tabs on people who have been repeatedly committed to psychiatric hospitals."

People are going to die because of that.

There is a close friend of mine who, if unlucky enough to live in that hellhole, would have her life made miserable by this. She's a nurse who's never committed a crime in her life. She's also bipolar, suicidal, deals with major depression, and has a less-than-supportive family, so she's been committed a few times. Being harassed by hyperzealous cops who think they're fighting terrorists is exactly the sort of thing that could push her over the edge.

I think—and hope—that this is what does them in. It should never have gotten to this point, but they can wave around terms like "reduced crime" and as long as it's just the bad guys who are being targeted, no one cares.

But I suspect there will be a point soon enough where the sheriff here will find himself answering questions about why his department drove to suicide a mentally ill person with no criminal record, and I hope to god the resulting consequences put an end to this un-American madness, here and everywhere else.

<comment><USER3> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but my father has been practicing civil rights law in central Florida for several decades now, and he's brought multiple lawsuits against police departments there which are very similar to the situation you're describing. In one instance, a young mother with anorexia and mental health issues died after a 300-pound corrections officer sat on her to 'calm her down' until she asphyxiated in her jail cell with multiple broken ribs. This was all recorded on video. She'd been arrested for something along the lines of making a disturbance related to her psychological problems.

There have never been any systemic changes implemented as a result of these lawsuits. If the case goes 'well', the department will pay restitution to surviving family members, but damages for police negligence are tightly capped in Florida, and the department will frequently attribute full blame to the individual officer in question rather than give the impression of general negligence or training problems, which are some of the very narrow means of avoiding the damages cap and making them actually take notice. My impression is that most departments in central Florida treat these cases as the cost of doing business, which is extremely depressing and also indicative of how the cops down there actually feel and act, unfortunately.

<comment><USER4> Someone needs to leak that video.

<comment><USER5> A similar situation occurred in Rochester NY in March. Police called on a guy who was acting out, possibly due to having ingested PCP earlier. He was obeying the officers commands and had been handcuffed, but was acting erratically by spitting at them. So they put a "spit hood" over his head, then held him to the ground until he passed out and his heart stopped. Nothing about how the police responded is humane.

It's all on video:

[https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2020/09/02/d...](https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2020/09/02/daniel- prude-rochester-ny-police-died-march-2020-after-officers-restrained- him/5682948002/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Halfway into the article it started reminding me of the informant networks of the USSR. Officers peeping through windows, feeding data into the system about the target's friends and family while also fining them for any unrelated arbitrary misdemeanor. This is not what crime prevention looks like in a democracy.

<comment><USER7> Except this surveillance machine is even more stupid. The USSR was at least ostensibly protecting its power structure from internal opposition.

These floridian police are basically grooming kids to become criminals by giving them records and harassing their families until they fall unto hardship.

<comment><USER8> _These floridian police are basically grooming kids to become criminals_

What if that was the point? The system is making work to justify its continued existence. The police aren't working for you, they are working for the sheriff, and these interest do not match.

<comment> non-entity This is a sherrif too, so they're elected, not neccesarily by any sort of experience or merit.

Nobody likes to hear it, but I'm willing to bet this person has been in office for a while. Tough on crime is popular among "model citizen" voters even if it utilizes dystopic tactics.

<comment><USER9> what if people who could run against this guy in an election turned out to have high risk pasco profiles?

<comment><USER10> Their grass might be 1/4" too long, or they might not have numbers on their mailbox (examples of justification for police harassment from the article).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Don't miss the disturbing bodycam footage that's linked from within the article:

[https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/p...](https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/police- pasco-sheriff-targeted/body-cam-footage/)

<comment><USER12> These cops are straight up gangsters.

<comment><USER13> This is an interesting observation because historically in East Asia the two are treated as a continuum. It's not uncommon to see former criminals or gangs being employed to fight other criminals in pre-modern China. A similar practice survives even to this day in Japan.

<comment><USER14> The Act of Killing is an incredibly interesting/disturbing documentary about this in Indonesia.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> > The Sheriff's Office said its program was designed to reduce bias in > policing by using objective data.

Data is no more objective than the people collecting or analyzing it.

<comment><USER16> This is very true.

The first lesson in any data science program covers the explict and implicit biases as well as the difference between correlation and causation. It seems the people involved in this system dont even have this basic knowledge.

<comment><USER17> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

<comment><USER16> There's also 3 kinds of liars: you, me, and everyone else.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This is just absolutely stunning. I simply cannot believe this is happening in a democratic country.

<comment><USER19> It's not. Many of the people who are targeted lose voting privileges.

<comment><USER20> Florida is heinous. Statewide voted overwhelmingly to restore rights to returning citizens in a constitutional amendment.

Then, Republicans who control the state leg & Gov. DeSantis passed a poll-tax which virtually excludes 1 million or more citizens who served their time from voting. It's disgusting. It's being litigated but it's too late for this election.... They passed the law a couple weeks before a previous election the timing was on purpose.

There is no statewide easy system/paperwork for most of these citizens to even know how much they owe in ridiculous court fees etc. Let alone it seems a vast majority can't afford to pay if they are able to ever find out. It's indentured servitude to a criminal system (i'm calling the state the criminal in that sentence).

I feel so hopeless about our country. I work in politics. I used to feel optimistic and good about the work we/I have accomplished and making incremental progress. But over the last two years I've grown _this_ close to completely giving up - which feels disgusting. I hate that we've strayed this far. It feels intentional and as someone with a relatively large amount of power I feel virtually powerless.

<comment><USER19> If you can, start a blog. Don't put sensational stuff on it, just… write your thoughts. The laws going on, how you feel about it, that kind of thing.

If you can provide more transparency to your citizens, even if it's just a public diary… either it'll help solve the problems, or it'll help the revolution start a day earlier. (Which depends entirely on whether the people we've trusted with power start using it for the things we gave them the power to do.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Institutionalized & normalized patterns of emotional abuse. This sheriff is running his department like an abusive & controlling spouse/father.

</comment><comment><USER22> Every time I read these, it's just horrible science and bad math

"The Sheriff's Office said its program was designed to reduce bias in policing by using objective data. And it provided statistics showing a decline in burglaries, larcenies and auto thefts since the program began in 2011."

Oh really? Where's your control? What did you control for? What were the other factors?

Perhaps it's the same as everywhere else. Maybe people feel more intimidated so they don't report crime. These measurements are self reported and after more intimidation and fear perhaps there's less self reporting...

It's unqualified people making incompetent assessments and unilaterally dictating public policy with gobs of taxpayer money to do it. Just atrocious

<comment><USER10> The article says the 7 surrounding counties experienced similar drops in property crime, and Pasco (the subject of the article) was the only one where violent crime increased.

<comment><USER22> Yes, thank you to the journalists for not letting that slide. We should probably be doing more than just claiming the reasoning is faulty and invalid on some websites though

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Where are the "good guys" fighting against this sort of oppression? Are they relegated to coding encrypted messaging apps or is there a strong network of technologists who are working on legal ways to foil these types of systems?

<comment><USER24> For one, developers can gain some morality and stop working for these companies.

There will always be someone to replace them, but you'll certainly slow down the progress.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> In all honesty, in such situations where persons have become the target of focused policing, it may be time to move cities. Or even move states. Being "in the system" is not a crime but if cops are poking around your house on a weekly/daily basis an incident is inevitable. The time to move is prior to that moment.

This may look like defeat. It is. At the larger scale this would mean cops are running certain people out of town. That is evil. But at the scale of an individual or family, particularly when mental health is an issue, what is best is to not be involved in an escalating situation. Pull up stakes and move somewhere with less oppressive policies.

<comment><USER26> MLK had a quote about injustice that seems highly relevant to this kind of thing.

I would prefer to fight the fires where they start. There are half a dozen states barreling toward a cliff because a generation of Californian's were told "just leave if you don't like it" (and if you don't like that example I could just as easily come up with an East coast one). Price out a condo in Denver if you don't believe me.

<comment><USER27> Could you expand on what you mean exactly by your barreling quote?

<comment><USER10> I assume they meant "barreling towards the exact same problems and policies that make California an unlivable hellhole today." That's usually the context when people talk about Californians migrating to other Western states.

<comment><USER27> Ah alright. Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> "The Pasco Sheriff's Office won a $95,000 federal grant to upgrade its computer systems and hired a small team of civilian analysts. "

I joke, but somehow I think this means a Google Maps license and 3 analysts to copy/paste reports.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> To everyone saying the title was sensationalized and that it's only one county in Florida, I welcome you to come visit my state.

This kind of stuff is widespread in Florida. Sheriff Gualtieri, Grady Judd, Billy Woods, Darryl Daniels, ex Sheriff Mike Scott, Ric Bradshaw, and I could go on and on and on.

Look across the vast swaths of rural land in the landlocked parts of Florida and you'll find the only industry are prisons and policing.

<comment><USER29> The title you submitted ("Florida is a police state") badly broke the HN guideline against editorializing in titles:

" _Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don 't editorialize._"

Accounts that do that eventually lose submission privileges, so please don't do that. If you want to offer your interpretation of the article or the facts, that's totally fine, but do it in the comments, so your view is on a level playing field with everyone else's. On HN, being the one to submit a story doesn't confer any special rights over it. This is important because titles have by far the biggest influence.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Posted article sez: "Then it sends deputies to find and interrogate anyone whose name appears, often without probable cause, a search warrant or evidence of a specific crime.... They mostly grilled him about his friends..."

 _A Law Professor Explains Why You Should Never Talk to Police_ [https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvkgnp/law-professor- poli...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvkgnp/law-professor-police- interrogation-law-constitution-survival)

"you are legally obligated to tell the cop your name and what you're doing at that very moment. Other than that, Duane says, you should fall back on four short words: "I want a lawyer."

</comment><comment><USER31> I was thinking this sounded a lot like Minority Report. Then the article said that this was designed to be exactly like Minority Report. Talk about missing the moral of the story.

It's like reading the Lorax and coming away with the idea that the environment should be exploited for profit.

<comment><USER10> Also, in Minority Report, they stopped violent crime in the act - the person had gotten to the point where they were actually going to commit it. This article is about messing up the lives of suspects and their families to "prevent" them from committing unknown, undisclosed crimes at some point in the future.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Something along these lines graced HN's front page recently, but I'll repeat my comment from there: Read "Weapons of Math Destruction" by Cathy O'Neil. Truly frightening.

</comment><comment><USER33> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung)

<comment><USER34> They're fascists, but it's a poor comparison because the SA didn't have _de jure_ police powers.

<comment><USER33> "De jure" was breaking down in the Weimarer republic like it is in the US today.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Should there be a law that you can't use unrelated laws or violations in order to compel otherwise legal behavior?

</comment><comment><USER36> "...Strategic Targeted Area Response teams, or STAR teams..."

Welcome to Raccoon City (Florida)...

</comment><comment><USER37> top notch original photography in that article.

</comment><comment><USER38> Flamebait editorialized title.

Article is about Pasco County.

<comment><USER39> @dang, is there a chance the title could be de-clickbaited?

<comment><USER40> Why, the title is literally what the system is doing?

<comment> non-entity It is now, orginally the story was submitted with a title along the lines of "Florida is a police state".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Here is the main header rather than the baited title:

Pasco's sheriff created a futuristic program to stop crime before it happens.

It monitors and harasses families across the county.

<comment><USER42> > Pasco's sheriff created a futuristic program to stop crime before it > happens.

That title would not be critical at all. This is about surveillance tech and systemic oppression. I think the title is very fitting.

 _" As they make checks, deputies feed information back into the system, not just on the people they target, but on family members, friends and anyone else in the target's orbit.

In the past two years alone, two of the nation's largest law enforcement agencies have scrapped similar programs following public outcries and reports documenting serious flaws."_

and

 _" Criminal justice experts said they were stunned by the agency's practices. They compared the tactics to child abuse, mafia harassment and surveillance that could be expected under an authoritarian regime."_

<comment><USER43> I agree it's state surveillance and would say systemic harassment and intimidation but I don't see the oppression angle.

<comment><USER7> When the stated goal is to make people move out of the county, how much more do you need to label it oppression?

<comment><USER43> That wasn't the stated goal. That was how a deputy characterized it. A civil rights lawyer on the other hand characterized it as harassment.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> This is a great article; it just needs a better title on Hacker News.

</comment><comment><USER45> home sweet home

</comment><comment><USER46> It's odd how their poster-boy was arrested for stealing a motorized bicycle out of someone's carport. That's far from murder, but not exactly an indicator that the teen is headed on the right path. Seems to be exactly the kind of person who may need some guidance.

Then the author conspicuously leaves out important information. They say targets are selected based on information about their family, but doesn't go into the teen's parent's criminal history. If his father's in prison and his mom has a serious record, and now he's heading down the same path.. that's relevant and necessary information.

It also says the police visited his house 20+ times and they often stop at people's houses without a warrant... but they don't actually say that the police stopped at _his_ house 20+ times without a warrant/reason. They just hope the reader will assume that.

Definitely casting the story in the light they want to cast it in, and omitting exculpatory evidence.

<comment><USER47> It sounds an awful lot more like you're trying to find any sliver of "this isn't so bad" and "but they didn't tell ALL the facts so BIAS" when the report goes over many many other stories in detail and shows how many of them are worse than your cherry picked poster boy example.

This department, this sheriff, and everyone associated with the data entry for this whole program need to be removed from any law enforcement / security positions anywhere, and really should be required to see a therapist themselves for agreeing to contribute to this kind of harassment against others.</comment></comment>


Borders file for bankruptcy - <AUTHOR> http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_17404272

<comment><AUTHOR> Besides their premature international expansions, its biggest mistake I believe was closing its own online store and use Amazon for over 8 years. I mean maybe they weren't savvy enough to understand online presence at first, but it took them 8+ years to finally figure that out?

<comment><USER2> That's certainly one of them. But even in the physical book business, they were falling behind --- their inventory control systems were state of the art in the mid-1990s, but B&N leapfrogged them, while Borders management instead spent money on remodels and improved cafeterias, and trying to bring in other lines of merchandise. (It didn't help that the executives responsible for this came from retail operations like Linens n Things, and didn't know much about selling books.)

More from a literary agent:

[1] [http://brilligblogger.blogspot.com/2010/12/borders-post- mort...](http://brilligblogger.blogspot.com/2010/12/borders-post-mortem.html)

[2] [http://brilligblogger.blogspot.com/2010/12/cold- equations.ht...](http://brilligblogger.blogspot.com/2010/12/cold- equations.html)

<comment><USER3> I moved to place with no B&N close by and as much as I enjoy going to a bookstore I refuse to go to Borders cause it is such a lost cause to find a single book you are interested in there. It is just night and day difference browsing between the two stores.

<comment><USER4> What sort of books are you looking for?! I've got my share of complaints about Borders, and they certainly didn't always have the particular book I was looking for, but I don't think I've ever gone to one where that had absolutely no books I was interested in. Usually the problem is not spending too much money.

And I've definitely never noticed B&N to be any better on that front. When I had a choice, I'd almost always go to Borders first, unless I was already in the B&N parking lot for something else.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is depressing. I know nothing beats the convenience of Amazon and Audible but browsing through a bookstore is an experience which just can't be replicated online... oh well.

</comment><comment><USER6> I'd said before(and still believe today) that the best option for Borders is to be aquired by Amazon. Then you could browse the stores and sample what you wanted before you bought it. They could do in store promotions unique to each store and when you ordered from them, you could ship it to your local store free the same way that Wal-Mart does now. Also, you could pay cash in store or use your Amazon account to check out. It's a perfect fit IMHO.

<comment><USER7> That would never happen.

The problem is that Amazon has no operations in certain states to avoid charging sales tax. Buying Borders would put them in every state.

<comment><USER8> Integrating the amazon web store with Borders would put them in every state. Conceivably they could still buy Borders and operate it as a subsidiary without having it affect amazon.com's ability to operate without having to pay sales taxes in every state.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Get used to this. Borders is clearly just the weakest of the pack. Lots of book stores have tried to diversify into markets they don't understand to try to compete. Culturally, they can't handle amazon or apple working in their space.

As tablets and phones drop to the 300 / 150 range respectively, bookstores are going to go the way of music stores in the very near future. B&N has a great chance right now with Nook Color. They should drop the e-reader only aspect and launch a fully supported android device with a kick ass e-reader in it.

Lots of people root their Nooks and turn them into good tablets, B&N could pop out a basic tablet at $250 right now and eat a huge chunk of the market that's going to appear near the end of the year.

</comment><comment><USER10> Borders was a revelation when it came to the Washington, DC, area. There were decent bookstores here already--at least a couple of which it helped kill--but nobody else had that stock and that range of subjects. Maybe at the Maryland Book Exchange in College Park you could have found _Transaction Processing: Principles and Techniques_ at one end and literature and history at the other, but nowhere else that I can think of.

There are still independent bookstores hanging on here. Reiters has technical and scientific books, squeezed down though from what it was. Bridge Street Books on the edge of Georgetown, Kramerbooks at Dupont Circle, and Politics and Prose out Connecticut Ave. all seem to be doing ok.

</comment><comment><USER11> What is happening with the books in the stores? That's what I'd like to know.

I'll have to wander over to one that is closing tomorrow and ask.

<comment><USER12> Bankruptcy != closing down

See: tribune company, gm, chrysler, delta, us airways..

<comment><USER11> The article linked to [http://www.bordersreorganization.com/Reorganization_Closure_...](http://www.bordersreorganization.com/Reorganization_Closure_List.pdf) which is a list of stores that they are planning to close. Two on that list are reasonably near me. Presumably _something_ needs to happen with the books in the soon to be closed stores. Frequently in that kind of situation they are sold at a considerable discount, and if that is the case then I would like to take advantage of it.

<comment><USER13> Brick & mortar bookstores usually have contracts that stipulate if the books don't sell, they can return the books for more or less a complete refund. The books you see with considerable discount are often those taken back by the publisher and then sent back out as 80-90% off. Softcovers aren't even returned--- the bookseller just rips off the covers and sends those back to minimize shipping costs. In high school, I worked in a B. Daltons (a now defunct Barnes and Nobles subsidiary) and it made me sad when I was tasked with tearing up a cart or two of books every few months.

I imagine the inventory will either be returned, destroyed or else shifted to their still remaining stores rather than a circuit-city-style liquidation sale.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The world changes, there isn't enough market in high street bookstores wedged between small local bookshops that also sell used and Amazon or supermarkets on the other.

If bookshops can't make enough $/sq ft then another type of store will move in.

<comment><USER15> What makes you think other stores are going to be better of?

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> First it was the record shops. Next it was the video rental stores. It seems odd when you think about it that it wasn't the book stores first?

<comment><USER15> Not really. Physical books are fundamentally different from their digital counterpart in a way that records are not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Wow, you'd think this was the end of all physical bookstores. People should calm down.

First, other retail bookstores still exist. Barnes and Noble is doing just fine, for example.

Second, used bookstores are doing pretty well actually. And with the ability to sell their inventory online through amazon, alibris, half.com etc. a lot of used bookstores are seeing a renaissance.

If you want to keep your favorite local bookstore in business I suggest paying them a visit and buying a book.

<comment><USER17> Borders was a pretty big piece of the B&M book market, and a lot of us have fond memories of the place. It doesn't surprise me that people are freaking out.

When Waldenbooks went downhill, I was pretty sad about that. I spent a lot of time in that store. After that, I didn't bother getting attached to any of the others.

And to be honest, since Amazon, I haven't spent much time in a B&M book store. It's just so much cheaper and easier to order online, and quite a few of their books let you peak inside them as well. (Not that I had much luck picking good books from bad by peaking in them in the store anyhow.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I'm going to have to explain to my children what a bookstore was. Sad, because I'm not sure anything can replicate that feeling of being surrounded by knowledge and stories or browsing aisles of obscure magazines. Neither I suppose could anything replicate riding a horse down Market Street or jumping on a ship departing from from Pacific Street.

<comment><USER4> Errr... libraries? (at least for being surrounded by knowledge and stories)</comment></comment>


Spend the Money for the Good Boots, and Wear Them Forever - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/02/your-money/spend-the-money-for-the-good-boots-and-wear-them-forever.html?ref=business <comment><USER2> > _I would have had to buy those $50 pants at least 17 more times over the > years, spending more than $800, to get as much use out of them as I have > from my Moonstone pants. Not only would I have had the cognitive, emotional > and logistical drain of perpetually having to replace the old pants, as I've > alluded to in a previous column, but I would have spent more than twice as > much money in the long run._

On the other hand, with the cheaper boots:

1) you could also follow fashion (different style every year or so),

2) you wouldn't care as much about damaging/etc them (like some people e.g. buy an expensive car and then are paranoid about keeping it new and mark free to the point that they don't enjoy it [1]).

3) You would have $250 left on hand that first year (that instead took you 5 more years to recuperate), which, depending on inflation, your needs at the time, etc, might be better than saving $500 over 17 years.

4) And, of course, while this might work for boots and similar ever-same goods, for stuff whose tech progresses rapidly and market is commoditized, e.g. smartphones, the $1000 model you'd buy in a year would end up useless compared to modern devices in 3-4 years, and with no resale value (a twice as capable new model could end up costing $200).

[1] Ferris Buller's friends father would be a typical example.</comment>


Texting on the move turns your walk into an ungainly lollop - <AUTHOR> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/06/30/texting-move-turns-walk-ungainly-lollop/ <comment><USER2> I kind of feel sad watching people walking head down, not noticing anybody, busy in a virtual reality, getting a phone neck.

They are with one foot in the matrix.

I think we need to step back once in a while and rethink what is really important to us.

<comment><USER3> What if they are texting someone important to them? Their child, spouse, or parent they'd rather talk with than random strangers who pass by.

<comment><USER4> Going by the mostly vapid, unhappy expressions on their faces, I'd say no. And why would the alternative be talking to passing strangers? Why not just take in yourself and your surroundings, or be in your head without distractions? It's not that you have to always do that to be a person, but you _have_ to be able to, and if you're not, talking to people who are equally unable isn't even being social anymore, it's just a blob. Which brings us back to the vapid expressions when reading and communicating. I think they're not really _doing_ anything as much as simply waiting life out.

<comment><USER5> i don't put on a happy face when i text my girlfriend. doesn't mean i don't enjoy texting her.

<comment><USER4> That's great, but the expressionless faces also don't necessarily mean everyone is texting your girlfriend, or enjoying it if they do :P

When I even just read a book, I often catch myself with a grin or a frown. So if being glued to smartphones is enhancing so many lives so greatly, where are the signs of liveliness?

<comment><USER3> Just a counter example: people in Flow don't usually show outward expression of happiness, but it is widely considered a positive experience.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_\(psychology\))

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I know this is meant to be a "dang kids" piece, but hey, that means that texting while walking might fool gait-analysis cameras.

<comment><USER7> Unless everyone also has a unique texting gait as well.

<comment><USER8> Now you're giving them ideas.</comment></comment></comment>


A Viable Career as a Freelance Logo Designer? - <AUTHOR> http://imjustcreative.com/a-viable-career-as-a-freelance-logo-designer/2009/09/08/ <comment><USER2> _Right at the beginning, I decided to drop the multi-disciplinary graphic design title. Too much to focus on, too much to try and market and frankly, way too much competition._

I often wondered why more people don't find their niche as freelance designers. I made a nice living a few years back as a freelance designer for hair salons (truly ironic as a bald guy!). It made it so much easier because it's a much smaller space, and the word of mouth in that industry makes marketing effortless. The problem with freelance is that it is hard to scale yourself.</comment>


Microsoft Buys GitHub with Phil Haack [Podcast] - <AUTHOR> https://dotnetrocks.com/?show=1553 <comment><USER2> Assuming they don't get too school girl giggly (which they've done in the past when copious amounts of whiskey were involved), this should be a good conversation. Haack left Microsoft several years ago to join GitHub. Initially he just worked on a Windows client for GitHub but today is a Director in the client apps division which oversees projects like Electron and the Atom editor. His insights on having been part of the open source movement at MSFT and being involved with some beloved tools at GitHub makes his insight and observations most interesting!</comment>


Smart, gets things done, opinionated: some thoughts on technical hiring - <AUTHOR> http://alexpounds.com/blog/2013/05/14/smart-gets-things-done-opinionated

<comment><USER2> My WebSense filter at work blocked this for "sex". Is there sex-related language, or is the work filter just set waaay to strictly?

<comment><AUTHOR> There's no sex-related language, though it might not like the photos in my portfolio.</comment></comment>


Amazon to hand over Echo audio from alleged murder after defendant consents - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39191056 <comment><USER2> This should be a lesson to people who don't understand the distinction between "can't" and "won't".

If you're running things yourself and control the encryption keys required to access your data, then your service provider _can 't_ be compelled to release your data as it's not possible[1][2].

If you're delegating all of that to your service provider and they have access to the raw data, then you are putting all your trust in them to protect your data and prevent it's release. And that has to cover everything from hackers, to snooping employees, to the Feds.

[1]: _Kind of ... I don 't recall the Apple/FBI case going to court for a final resolution so it's possible they can compel the service provider to hack you to get the keys but at least they can't get it directly_.

[2]: _And obviously they can always come after you with a court order or rubber hose (or both)._

<comment><USER3> >If you're running things yourself and control the encryption keys required to access your data, then your service provider can't be compelled to release your data as it's not possible

The court can just hold you in contempt until you do[1]. They also probably won't buy "I forgot".

[1]: [https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/04/child-porn- suspe...](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/04/child-porn-suspect- jailed-for-7-months-for-refusing-to-decrypt-hard-drives/)

<comment><USER4> If you delete the data, prior to getting the notice to produce the data and it wasn't deleted in anticipation of such a notice, sure the court could hold you in contempt, but legally you've done nothing wrong.

You cannot easily make a third random third-party delete your data.

<comment><USER5> You might put yourself in a worse position if the court compels you to produce the data, but now you can't. You better be very certain that you are able to prove that you deleted the data prior to any notice, or you might find yourself in for a long jail stay.

This is what a lot of people overlook - when the court compels you to produce evidence, or ill gotten gains, saying ,"I can't" \- isn't a legal defense.

<comment><USER2> > This is what a lot of people overlook - when the court compels you to > produce evidence, or ill gotten gains, saying ,"I can't" \- isn't a legal > defense.

We're getting closer and closer to testing that. IANAL but I'd imagine that some combination of the 4th and 5th amendments should cover that situation. The onus would be upon the prosecutor to prove that you destroyed the evidence after the fact.

As a general rule, one does not have to prove they didn't commit a crime, the prosecutor has to prove that they did. Where this gets murky is if a judge orders you to present the non-existent data as contempt of court may apply.

<comment><USER5> There's lots of case history where people are faced with a court order compelling them to return ill-gotten gains, and when they claim "I can't do it, I don't have the money." \- they are found guilty of contempt of court if the court believes otherwise. Burden of evidence is not on the court to prove you do have the money, just as in this case, the burden wouldn't be on them to prove you can retrieve the data....

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is a non-issue. The audio Amazon receives is from only-just-barely-before the wakeword up to and through the command or timeout expiration. Yes, it's possible that the defendants cat meowed right before the murder and it sounded like "Alexa". But it seems incredibly unlikely.

Prosecutors are just trying to cover every base but the likelihood that this will yield anything is very low.

<comment><USER7> > The audio Amazon receives is from only-just-barely-before the wakeword up to > and through the command or timeout expiration.

I wonder, how on earth do you know that, that you are able to dismiss it with such confidence as a non-issue. That's the problem with proprietary systems (proprietary always-on microphones at that). I would be surprised if they _weren 't_ actually listening and analysing and storing data from the microphone feed at all times.

<comment><USER8> You can just watch the network traffic from the device to see when it is streaming audio.

Now this obviously doesn't rule out the device saving stuff locally, but plenty of people have verified that it does generally only send lots of data to the server when you have just asked it to wake up.

<comment><USER9> It is possible it's doing local voice recognition on all audio, and just sending the text in their payloads. If the content is encrypted, there's no way for any network snooping to determine what they're sending.

<comment><USER10> This is software... saying there's "no way" is usually incorrect.

For example, you could root the device and disable the encryption.

Or, you could perform experiments in a controlled setting where you play a series of identical recordings to Alexa and measure the statistical similarity in the outgoing data for each. The encryption scheme probably provides more entropy than just the audio, so maybe statistical analysis wouldn't help, but it's a start.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> How is echo audio data substantially different than something like a tape recorder that was live in the man's home? What about a cell phone that was on a call at the time of the alleged murder?

I definitely understand wanting to ensure reasonable privacy for users, but to me it feels an awful lot of a stretch to say that the echo is off-limits in this case.

<comment><USER12> Comparing it to a tape recorder is interesting. If we consider this device to be the same as a tape recorder for the purpose of admission of evidence: (1) In some states, by having this device and turning it on you have now indeed consented for the conversation to be recorded - which would alarm most users (2) In other states, it is illegal for the device to be functioning without consent of all who are conversing, and the recording is thus inadmissable as evidence. Quite the opposite of what I think you're implying by that comparison. We keep seeing that treating new technology under previous legal definitions is very unsteady ground. You can see how comparison to previous technology would protect privacy and hinder investigation in this case, but on the other hand it makes me think of compelling you to give up encryption keys because well, they're not "papers" like the 4th amendment refers to (an argument which HAS been used before). So given that, how am I supposed to know what my actual rights are in a case like this, when it's so freely interpreted either way depending on the specific case?

<comment><USER11> Thanks for the insight.

In regards to comparing new technologies against previous ones to understand their legal definitions, it feels like the burden is on technologists to navigate us through the ethical minefield. I'm not very aware of what place ethicists have in many tech corporations, but it feels like most of us just build straight ahead and figure out the implications afterward. Not that we should halt progress on everything until we know if it's "good", but maybe a tech ethicist could be a kind of QA role during product development.

<comment><USER12> Definitely. I think I've heard Google has a handful of ethicists on staff? I don't think it's fair for the burden to be entirely on technologists either, though, but I don't know how else to progress. Uber & friends make an interesting case in this area too: Does that business model technically violate laws in various locales? Is it fair to existing taxi companies to just throw those laws away too quickly for them to plan or without re-addressing the original issue they were there for? Could they get lawmakers to re-assess the need for those laws before they had demonstrated their value and popularity? A lot of catch-22's.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I own an Echo and this is part of the reason it now sits unplugged. To be honest, it doesn't provide enough value for me to consider potentially compromising the privacy of my home.

<comment><USER14> Mentioned this in another comment, but they can only reveal voice data IF the victim said "Alexa" when the crime was taking place. If the victim didn't say "Alexa" that day, then there's nothing to reveal.

<comment><USER15> The main thing I'm taking away from this is that, if I ever find myself getting murdered, I'll just keep shouting "Alexa" as a last ditch attempt at getting justice from beyond the grave. Can't hurt.

<comment><USER16> I was thinking about this -- I'm too afraid to try it, but if I said, "Alexa call 911", does that functionality exist?

Is there a skill I can install that would let me say something like, "Alexa start recording audio to the cloud"?

<comment><USER17> "Alexa call 911" doesn't work (at least currently) and it looks like it's against Amazon's rules to try and create a skill that calls emergency services: [https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/alexa/alexa- sk...](https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/alexa/alexa-skills- kit/docs/alexa-skills-kit-policy-testing)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> > Amazon has agreed to hand over data from an Amazon Echo that may have been > operating as an alleged murder took place, after the defendant consented.

A much more interesting question is if Amazon would have released the data without the defendants conset.

<comment><USER19> Well Amazon actually refused at first, even when presented with warrants requesting the data, saying that they didn't see how the data would be relevant.

[http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39063113](http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39063113)

<comment><USER18> I know that, I'm just pointing out that handing the data with persons consent is absolutely nothing extraordinary.

Many people (also in this thread) are worried and unplug Alexa because of these news. Some accuse Amazon of putting up a fight for PR only.

From my point of view, these news add nothing substantial to the Alexa customer privacy debate. It is unclear if Amazon would have (finally) handed the data over without customers consent. It is unclear how far would Amazon go fighting for customer privacy.

<comment><USER20> It's newsworthy in this case because of the initial refusal.

Not because it adds anything substantial to the privacy debate, but because it means we won't get to see if their argument would be held up by the court.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Can you call emergency services via Amazon Echo? I've read on a car forum I'm part of about someone who was working on their vehicle without jack stands and got trapped when their jack slipped. They used Siri to call their wife and jack the car back up. They probably would have died without it.

I can easily forsee a future where consumers _ask companies_ for voice assistants that turn on automatically when they detect duress (not needing to say "Alexa ...") before one where governments actually compel product manufacturers to do this.

<comment><USER22> For all you know, it could be recording all the time, and since it's a closed device, you can't prove otherwise.

<comment><USER23> Yes and for all you know that table you bought could include a large battery, LTE receiver, and a microphone and could be recording your every sound as well.

There's a limit to how much paranoia is warranted, and in this case I'm firmly in the "it's not" column. Yes, it could be recording your every sound for months on end and uploading it to evil amazon, but not only would they be in some hot water legally in some areas, but the media would have a fucking field day with it, and for what gain?

To be able to listen in on your conversations?

And if you want to argue that it could be remotely updated to target you to always record that data, you could always be targeted by inserting a microphone into anything else of yours (good 'ole bugs).

You don't need to like them, you don't need to own them, and you don't need to be somewhere that has them, but some of us see utility in devices like this. And to me it's well worth the trade off that my recordings could be used in a court of law when requested with a warrant and I agreed to it.

<comment><USER24> The comparison between a bugged table and a device whose primary purpose is to always be listening to you is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

Amazon provides cloud storage and processing to the web. Given their history of relatively ruthless (if strategically smart) business moves, I don't think it is unreasonable to consider that they could store this data for use down the line or do so at government request. This is all software based permissions that seem to be one invisible server side tweak away from becoming an always recording (not just listening for a wake word) device.

I got an Amazon Tap because it required a button push to record. They just enabled the option for always listening just like the echo. In theory I control it, but clearly I do not in practice.

<comment><USER23> To be completely honest, the "save this at government request" is a real threat, but there is nothing that amazon can realistically do to prevent that (short of physically not manufacturing the device to have a microphone, but even then is it that much of a jump from "forcing them to write code" to "forcing them to add a microphone"?)

But in terms of adding this kind of surveillance stuff for greed? I just don't see it paying off. Regardless of how shady or ruthless you think amazon is, they aren't going to brazenly break 1-party and 2-party listening laws. And all it takes is one guy somewhere who owns one to discover it and it's all over.

People are more than willing to give up information for very little gain, there's no reason to try and "steal" it illegally. If the argument is that amazon is a greedy company willing to do unethical things for money, where's the money in this? Where's the money in 24/7 audio recordings vs recordings of when you are speaking to the thing?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> At this point I assume they have a warrant, so I don't understand what the problem is. People should assume their devices can and will be used against them. A much more tricky conversation is when a friend of mine discovered that fragments of his a session with his psychologist recorded by his Android Wear watch.

<comment><USER26> > people should assume

What I assume is that the bill of rights will not be subverted just because I use technology. The right to not be subject to search and right to not self incrimate.

<comment><USER25> It's a nice sentiment and sounds like a good legal argument. However, your constitution doesn't do me any good and doesn't help you with foreign states. Five Eyes has been a legal work around for years so keep fighting the good fight, but in the meantime I will keep expecting the best and assuming the worst.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> > after the defendant consented

<comment><USER28> But how long before lack of consent is considered incriminating?

There are also many different jurisdictions which don't have 5th amendment style protections.

<comment><USER29> Wouldn't a jurisdiction without 5th amendment protections be unconstitutional?

<comment><USER30> We do not all live in the USA.

<comment><USER29> This case does though and considering its a 5th amendment case I'm not sure how it would be relevant internationally.

<comment><USER31> The basis premises (privacy amidst a sea of devices which record at various times and save these recordings off-site) are universal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I thought Amazon claimed this was impossible and they didn't have this audio?

</comment><comment><USER33> If the defendant consented, couldn't they just log into their own account and get the audio?

In the app, you can hear back all the queries you made to Alexa.

</comment><comment><USER34> I haven't seen a compelling use case for these things yet, including visiting the homes of people who own one. But I sure have seen a lot of deal-breakers.

<comment><USER35> I know someone who is smart and reasonably concerned about privacy issues, but she loves the thing - uses it instead of a shopping list. I was quite surprised that she would compromise for such a trivial convenience, but it made me revise the likelihood that they'll be more widely adopted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Seriously, screw google home and Amazon echo. If I wanted a wiretap, I'd go to FISA court.

<comment><USER37> Odds are you already carry one around with you every where you go.

<comment><USER38> It does not matter whether he carries, there lot of people around him who would carry. And for that matter i dont even believe regular land line phone.</comment></comment></comment>


H.R.2818 - Surveillance State Repeal Act - <AUTHOR> http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/2818 <comment><USER2> Stunningly interesting exceptions and, if I'm reading this right, not necessarily an improvement:

"Repeals the USA PATRIOT Act ... except with respect to ... the acquisition of intelligence information concerning an entity not substantially composed of U.S. persons that is engaged in the international proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."

"Requires orders ... to direct ... any person or entity must furnish all information, facilities, or technical assistance necessary to accomplish such surveillance

\- in a manner to protect its secrecy and produce a minimum of interference with the services

\- that such carrier, landlord, custodian, or other person is providing the target of such surveillance

\- (thereby retaining the ability to conduct surveillance on such targets regardless of the type of communications methods or devices being used by the subject of the surveillance)."

</comment><comment><USER3> All the negative waves [1] :-) This is primarily a bill where some folks can vote for it, feeling confident it won't pass, and get re-elected by "trying to shut down those rogue intelligence agencies." But it can also get people elected, just like the tea partiers got elected on the fear of government over spending, liberals can get elected on the fear of government oversight. Mixing up the opinions in congress is always a good thing in my opinion.

[1] Yes a Kelly's Heroes reference.

<comment><USER4> I remember such a vote on the Iraq war back in Tony Blair's time in office. My MP's re-election literature said he voted against the war on Iraq, so I looked it up and sure enough there were 3 votes in total. He voted twice for the war and once against. Technically he's correct he voted against the war.

This is the kind of thing that gives me no faith in the system. I still write letters and vote, but we need greater democracy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> _Repeals the USA PATRIOT Act_

Okay, so there's effectively zero chance that this bill will ever pass.

The PATRIOT act was a power grab, and governments don't willingly give up power. The only way this would pass is if the members of congress were in danger of not getting reelected if it didn't.

<comment><USER6> > were in danger of not getting reelected if it didn't

I'd rather say this would only occur if they were in danger of being lynched if it didn't. Losing a reelection has never been a huge incentive to put government power in question. On the contrary they'd rather lose once and come back in 5 years with the same powers in place (or more).

<comment><USER7> Or more likely, move to a cushy, well-paid position as lobbyist or "VP of Regulatory Affairs".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This bill was introduced by Rep. Rush Holt, a Democrat from New Jersey (12th District). Here's a statement from him on surveillance issues:

[http://holt.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view...](http://holt.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1204&Itemid=18)

</comment><comment><USER9> in order for a bill to become law,

1 - it has to be agreed by a couple of committees, 2 - exact copies have to be passed by the two chambers of the congress, each of which are controlled by opposed factions, which disagree about almost anything and rarely compromised 3 - it has to be not vetoed by the president.

So probably it won't pass. In fact, I wonder how can they get anything passed these days.

</comment><comment><USER10> Something tells me this won't pass.

</comment><comment><USER11> A couple of laws will never be enough to stop the NSA's antics (including probably also the CIA's and FBI's).

It's out of control, anything short of "desperate" measures will not correct the issue.

<comment><USER7> I think you're right.

Even if the law was changed to explicitly disallow these unconstitutional surveillance programs, these agencies would simply break the law and cover it up in a shroud of secrecy. The whistle-blowing provisions might help encourage upstanding individuals to pierce that shroud of secrecy, though.

Unfortunately, so long as government officials and the political elite have de facto immunity from prosecution of any and all criminal behavior (up to and including torture and premeditated murder of US citizens), all the laws and exposure in the world won't change their pattern of criminality.</comment></comment>


Equifax engineer who designed breach portal gets 8 months of house arrest - <AUTHOR> https://www.zdnet.com/article/equifax-engineer-who-designed-breach-portal-gets-8-months-of-house-arrest-for-insider-trading/ <comment><USER2> This title is extremely misleading.

If you actually read the article, he is sentenced for insider trading. Sure, he designed the breach portal but that information only allowed him to gain the information that there was a security breach announcement imminent.

<comment><USER3> Agree! And what about the executives of Equifax who did the same thing? They got off or did I miss the news on them?</comment></comment>


The road to hell is paved with SAML Assertions - <AUTHOR> http://www.economyofmechanism.com/office365-authbypass.html <comment><USER2> This is one hell of a security vulnerability! How did this not get more attention?</comment>


What would you do? Boss thought I copied code from Web - <AUTHOR>

My boss recently instructed a coworker to rewrite my feature behind my back, and I found out by chance. More than a week and dozens of panic attacks later, he told me that he thought some of it was stolen because he didn't think I was capable of writing sophisticated JavaScript. I am a green dev, but I spend tons of time outside of work becoming a better developer, and primarily I have focused on JS because that is the bulk of what I do at work. I was completely baffled by this accusation and just explained to him that I spend lots of time researching and want to write the absolute best code possible. He seemed to understand, but this situation makes me extremely uncomfortable. It is insulting on multiple levels to think that I am so incompetent that I would steal. Has anyone else encountered this? <comment><USER2> I would leave that job as quickly as possible. Life is too short to work for a boss who is crazy.

You have the drive to learn and grow. Go to meetups, user groups, etc. and get to know others who are like-minded. You'll build the connections you need to find a better job, even if you are a junior dev. They'll see your passion and potential and hire you for that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you so much for this. I will start going to meet ups ASAP. I have worked so hard to get into this industry (I am almost completely self taught, no tech degree) and all I want is to work with passionate people who are inspired by my passion. I want to make awesome things and be better than I was yesterday. This current job is so disheartening.

<comment><USER3> Also, if you see startups you like, apply for jobs there. I know that sounds really basic but I'm surprised how often folks don't apply for jobs they could get (or fear they need a warm intro, etc.). Companies, esp. startups, are so hungry for engineering talent that, IMHO, it's very much a meritocracy, and you don't necessarily need relationships, etc.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is good to know. I think a startup would be a great fit for me in many ways.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'd update your resume and look around. Things could get better at your current job, however, if you are able to find something new, you should consider it..especially given your current issue.

You are right to feel annoyed by this. I would. I think anyone who put the time & effort into something would too. Hopefully your boss will figure it out one day.

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks, i will definitely update my resume. i moved 800 miles for this job, so there's an extra layer of frustration there, too. i don't want it to have been for nothing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> If you're not copying from the web (with appropriate attention to licensing) you are seriously doing it wrong. Especially on an internal facing enterprise product. Sounds like your boss is a moron.

<comment><AUTHOR> ha - that's a good point. i hadn't thought of that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> That does not sound like a recoverable problem.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's what I am afraid of. I am very uncomfortable with the culture of conniving and suspicion that seems to be rampant here.

<comment><USER6> If I was accused of plagiarism, I'd start making plans to leave. I don't say that lightly; this might, I think, be the first time in my overlong time on HN to give that piece of advice.

<comment><AUTHOR> this is my first job in the industry, and i've only been there for less than 3 months. i'm afraid i won't be able to find another job with my experience.

<comment><USER7> You are probably _drastically_ underestimating the marketability of "can write production-ready JavaScript given sufficient time browsing docs & without copying it directly from StackOverflow."

And I only say "probably" because it sounds like you're looking for a local W-2 gig, and there are some places (e.g. rural Idaho) where there's likely to be a shortage of potential employers.

Elsewhere, consider "any company with senior programmers to report to" as a location which is probably hiring, or at least entertaining applicants - regardless of what any public listings may say about what openings exist, or how much experience or what madcap assortment of skills any job postings say that they'd like (yes, like).

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for the perspective. I take the requirements on job listings very literally and definitely underestimate what I have to offer. I will broaden my search. I am not in a tech hot spot, but also not in the middle of nowhere.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Welp, we're always looking for front-end devs. [http://www.tapad.com/about- us/careers/openings/](http://www.tapad.com/about-us/careers/openings/)

<comment><AUTHOR> thank you for the link! if i had the experience you guys were looking for, i would absolutely go for it.

<comment><USER8> Meh it's flexible. I wrote the front-end job posting and handle reviewing the resumes. If you want to post what your current resume I wouldn't hold any formatting errors and whatnot against you. It's not like you have anything to lose.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Who is having the panic attacks, and who thinks the code is stolen? I'm guessing a) you, and b) the boss, but the antecedents aren't clear.

Using code from the web _without understanding it_ is not a good thing. But I would think worse of somebody who (for example) spent a week reimplementing in Perl what he could have installed from CPAN. (Do I understand everything I pull down from CPAN? Umm, well, I understand how to use it.)

<comment><AUTHOR> yes, you're right about a) and b).

the bottom line was that he didn't understand my code, and he thought i wasn't smart enough to write it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Show of hands. Who DOESN'T copy snippets of code from the net occasionally? Anybody? Cobol programmer in the back, your hand has been noted, you can put it down now...

<comment><USER11> Do answers on StackOverflow count?

<comment><USER10> I would count that, yes. Any time you think "I need to do X" but don't know the syntax, do you hopelessly read through help docs or do you Google it and keep going?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Ermmm well we all learn by observing other codes out there many times and rest of it troubleshooting isnt it?

If it works, it works. Why bother re-writing it anyway? Unless its refactoring.

If its me, Ill confront him and ask him about his insecurities and if theres any issues.

But thats just me.

</comment><comment><USER13> The one time I encountered this was in 9th grade. The health class teacher wasn't used to people writing good essays. I got an A on the first essay of the year, and she wrote on the paper "Good job, if you actually wrote it."

Her and I did not get along very well that year.

<comment><AUTHOR> ugh, i would imagine not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Is your boss a dev? Did he think you straight copy/pasted from the internet? Did he even ask about the licensing?

Your boss sounds incompetent, but these answers would probably help us understand.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, he is a dev. He thought I copied/pasted. He did not ask about licensing.

He also told me that "inner JavaScript classes" are inappropriate for enterprise code. I asked him to explain what he was talking about - he meant my object constructors. He said I could not create new java (yes, java) classes in my JavaScript code. ????

<comment><USER15> > "inner JavaScript classes" are inappropriate for enterprise code. I asked > him to explain what he was talking about - he meant my object constructors

I'd guess that he and the product do not tend to use javascript objects when writing code - which means that the code was above his (and the product's average) coding head. This also means that it wasn't the best way for you to code the project.

For a code review to pass, the reviewer should think about the minimum person working on the project and whether they would understand or make guesses when fixing it - or at least know where / when to get help.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for that feedback. These are the kinds of thing I can't learn on my own. There is absolutely no formal code review, much to my surprise; in fact, the closest thing to "process" here is to push to UAT as fast as humanly possible. I would love to work in an environment where I felt as though I were actually learning from my coworkers and from the process.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> 用你的优秀让他哑口无言~

</comment><comment><USER17> yea man that is no good. most bosses would kill to know that their staff goes home and learns on their own. run, fast, and far.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you, I will take this advice to heart.</comment></comment>


PNG Image Metadata Found Leveraging iFrame Injections - <AUTHOR> http://threatpost.com/png-image-metadata-leading-to-iframe-injections

<comment><USER2> It's a clever idea, but not a malware attack - just a way to hide what the attack does and make it more difficult to detect. It still needs some javascript code to extract the malicious payload from the image.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't see how the embedded JavaScript can be used without the accompanying malicious loader script.

As I see it, this is just another form of obfuscation. Not an entry vector.

<comment><USER4> Indeed. The clever part though is that since the code is never loaded as text, the normal ways of detecting and combating it will have a hard time. Such an image can be hosted on imgur or imageshack, and anti-virus/anti-malware mechanisms in the browser would never look over it like they would if it were a .js file.

<comment><USER5> It's not unknown though, there's been PHP malware that executes an images exif data previously.

        $exif = exif_read_data('/homepages/clientsitepath/images/stories/food/bun.jpg');
        preg_replace($exif['Make'],$exif['Model'],'');

This particular one operates in a similar way but with significantly more stealth, even if you were looking right at it you wouldn't immediately suspect that it's a backdoor executing code. Looks a bit odd, but if it was shoved in a thumbnailing function or something similar you might never notice, doubly so if the code it's executing is a client supplied image.

[http://blog.sucuri.net/2013/07/malware-hidden-inside-jpg- exi...](http://blog.sucuri.net/2013/07/malware-hidden-inside-jpg-exif- headers.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Not really newsworthy, just obfuscation. If it was yet another libtiff CVE, then I'd be worried.

</comment><comment><USER6> Article calls this steganography but...I'm not sure it really is, as the payload is hidden in the file format's metadata...not _encoded_ into the pixel data.

<comment><USER7> Steganography is about hiding, not necessarily _encoding_.

One of the earliest examples of steganography comes from ancient Greece: the king of Miletus would shave the head of his messenger, write the message on the top of the head, then let the hair grow back to hide the writing; the recipient would then shave the messenger again to see the message.

I do not think this qualifies as encoding.

<comment><USER8> This does qualify as (very poor) encoding, to me - the malicious code is stored in padded ASCII, which has to be decoded to unpadded before being interpreted.

It doesn't use metadata, though, and I wouldn't call it steganography, since the image the data is in is never intended to be seen.

<comment><USER7> By such a definition, any form of expression is encoding, isn't it?

<comment><USER8> Pretty much, except in coding theory you have to be explicit about your alphabet. Hall took this further, by positing that in television, viewers use individual and heterogeneous decoders.

Anyway, the point is that the channel used to communicate the message in this case is unconventional, and that's why I consider encoding to occur. A casual observer would assume the datastream to encode an image, not a program, and as such the program can be said to be explicitly encoded, rather than implicitly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Yet another reason to leave javascript off.

<comment><USER10> What do you do when you want to use websites that by their very nature require javascript? Or do you only ever read content site? No webapps? You don't use any web-based Saas products? Complex e-commerce?

If the answer is 'yes' then that's fine but even if we disregard what could be termed 'gratuitous use of javascript' (which in many cases is an attempt to improve usability) then there are still many, many useful sites that just are impossible without javascript.

<comment><USER11> Leave JavaScript off for casual browsing, and enable it for trusted sites.

Or, leave JavaScript off for casual browsing, and use another browser altogether with JavaScript enabled for trusted sites.

I don't do either, but there's nothing to prevent someone in principal saying "I trust this stuff = JS on, everything else = JS off".

<comment><USER10> I can see an argument for this but I'm a web developer and it's important that I experience the web the same way as the vast majority of my customers and users will - otherwise I'm living in a bubble. Same for Adblock.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> So it's javascript code that won't be caught by a virus-scanner... imho, once you need a virus-scanner for javascript, you've already failed. Serving _any_ javascript from an un-trusted source is a failure. Sad that half of the web- based advertising industry is based on this principle.

</comment><comment><USER13> This technique has been around since prior to 2008 at least, the biog entry below introduced the code[1], along with providing a tool to compress your js into an image using ruby [2].

The technique has a legitimate use as a suave compression method and was termed "super packing" in 2011 [3]

[1][http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/08/imageinfo-reading-image- met...](http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/08/imageinfo-reading-image-metadata- with.html)

[2][http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/canvascompress/](http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/canvascompress/)

[3][http://daeken.com/superpacking-js-demos](http://daeken.com/superpacking- js-demos)

<comment><USER14> It both greatly amuses and somewhat surprises me that there is even a Javascript demoscene...

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> It seems like this is allowed by design, so am I missing something? Why hasn't such a "feature" been turned off by all the newest browsers and rendering engines?

I know this method could have been made available for canvas image editing purposes but is there any legitimate reason for allowing javascript to be executed as well and not to strip it out automatically?

<comment><USER16> What's happening isn't that the canvas is being told "load this image, find some Javascript in it, and execute that", which would make your comment make sense. Instead, it's just being used as a means of getting the PNG bytes and turning them into a string of characters, which gets passed to a callback that's passed into the loadPNGData function.

As far as I can tell, it's more than anything a means of smuggling exploit code past antivirus &c., and into the browser -- presumably nothing is looking for Javascript source hidden in a PNG file, and there's nothing to say it couldn't be obfuscated further.

On the other hand, being able to strip the code out of the image and execute it requires being able to execute Javascript code on the target browser already, so I'm really not sure what benefit the technique has for the attacker; if you can get your target to run your script loader, you can probably just get your target to run your _script_.

<comment><USER8> I believe the point of the technique is that it may avoid some heuristics that malware scanners use to identify loaders.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> >relatively new way to distribute malware

>JavaScript code stored in an obfuscated PNG

they reinvent the wheel agian?</comment>


"Modern" SPA Development on Salesforce (React, Typescript, Etc) - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@charlie_77818/how-to-build-modern-spas-on-salesforce-4342ca4679d3 <comment><AUTHOR> Author Here: I know there are a lot of React / Typescript dev's around here and I thought some of you might be interested to see how you can bring the tools & frameworks you're used to into Salesforce.

Hopefully, this shows that you don't have to learn salesforce's proprietary languages (Apex/Lightning/Visualforce) to start building on their platform.</comment>


The Mutilated Chess Board, Revisited [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://www.solipsys.co.uk/Writings/TheMutilatedChessBoardRevisited.pdf <comment><USER2> triggers infinite tabs in Firefox for me

<comment><USER3> See this help article for a resolution to your issue:

[https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-repeatedly- open...](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-repeatedly-opens-empty- tabs-or-windows)</comment></comment>


Beneath the Yew Tree's Shade - <AUTHOR> https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2015/10/31/beneath-the-yew-trees-shade/ <comment><USER2> This is a decent introduction into this fascinating cultural history, but there is much more to the myth of the yew tree and sadly we seem to have lost almost all understanding of it. Medieval stories in both England and France relate certain trees with the fairy world, the yew tree being one of them. One lovely story that combines these myths is _Sir Orfeo_ [1], which is a delightful poem in Middle English and also has a translation into modern English by a young Tolkien [2]. It is a re-telling of the classical Orpheus myth, with Eurydice being taken by faeries instead of bitten by a snake. Relevant to this article, she is taken while sleeping under the shade of a tree at noon, and the fairy world to which she is taken is actually a Hades- like place where the dead live. The name/description of the tree in Middle English, though not exactly "yew" in the available manuscripts, has raised speculation that the tree is meant to be a yew tree in the source story or earlier translations.

The fact that multiple cultures across such a breadth of time have continued and created mythical connections between the yew tree and death is intriguing. Maybe it speaks to some natural or innate quality of the tree, or just the amazing staying power and transferability of certain myths. Regardless, I think the mythologizing of the physical world in these ways renders some beautiful and engaging stories that we lose through our modern disdain for myth and our retreat from prolonged physical interaction with the natural world.

[1] [https://auchinleck.nls.uk/mss/orfeo.html](https://auchinleck.nls.uk/mss/orfeo.html) [2] [https://allpoetry.com/Sir-Orfeo](https://allpoetry.com/Sir-Orfeo)

<comment><USER3> Perhaps the chemotherapeutic properties of yew bark were known in some way to the ancients.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> An interesting use of a yew tree: [http://www.themeaningoftrees.com/node/352](http://www.themeaningoftrees.com/node/352)

</comment><comment><USER5> The Paris Review podcast begins November 8th

subscription rss: [https://rss.art19.com/the-paris- review](https://rss.art19.com/the-paris-review)</comment>


Can I have multiple Git repos from a single project folder? - <AUTHOR>

I have a project that I want to maintain in Git.  It is a web-project that I develop in Eclipse.  Essentially, there are two components:

  1) the main service engine (i.e. the Java code)
  2) the web-files (i.e. the HTML, JSP, CSS, and JS files).
 I'd like to maintain this all with Git but I'd like to have distinct repos for each component of the site.  So, is there a way to have multiple repos from this single project folder?  More specifically, is it possible to have multiple files from a single folder belong to different repos? <comment><USER2> if you want the files interleaved in the same folder hierarchy (ie. not separated into engine and web-files as @shorbaji suggests) to my knowledge there is no way to do this. I doubt any folder based version control system will allow you to do that. You would have to use something like RCS :shudder:

If you are considering such a structure, ask your self: why? This is not a common structure (thus the lack of tool support), but your problem is common.

If you want to separate your files into two subdirectories as suggested, I recommend using a top level git repo to track all of it, and using git submodule for your engine:

        projects
          | engine # directory containing you engine code
             | .git
             | files...
          | MyProject
             | .git
             | .gitmodules
             | engine # a clone of your engine repository above
                | ...
             | the rest of your files ...

If you don't know how git submodule works, read the man pages.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ya, I was thinking about doing exactly that. I figured that might be the best option, but thought I'd ask in case there was some Git feature that I just didn't know about. I'll probably go this way. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> If you have these components in separate folders within the main project folder simple create a git repo within each folder.

      $cd engine
      $git init .
      $cd ../web-files
      $git init .

If you have one folder within the other, you can do the same but use .gitignore</comment>


Can WheelTug, a Driveable Aircraft Nosewheel, Save Airlines Money? - <AUTHOR> https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2020/09/11/can-wheeltug-a-driveable-aircraft-nosewheel-save-airlines-money/ <comment><USER2> If it is really "less than 3 inches wide", it is most likely a wheel hub motor with a much bigger diameter. 3 inches thick would be a much better description. (This is all conjecture.)

<comment><USER3> Doesn't say it's 3x3.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Later Locker: for content that sucks on your mobile phone - <AUTHOR> http://laterlocker.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey HN,

Just thought I'd show you guys something that I quickly threw together this weekend.

It's a webapp that for websites that suck on your iPhone/Android/mobile phone. Later Locker lets you email a link to the webpage to an email address and have it automatically appear on your computer. Sites like the <http://nytimes.com> or <http://newegg.com> are kind of annoying to view in your mobile browser. So, you send a link to the webpage from your phone and automatically appears on your desktop!

Still really rough, but would love any feedback/suggestions you guys have!

Using mailgun for parsing!

\- Benny

<comment><USER2> Have you thought about using a bookmarklet instead of e-mail on the phone?

<comment><AUTHOR> I've thought about it, but bookmarklets on the iPhone (not sure about android) is exceedingly annoying. Marco Arment (Instapaper founder) wrote about his experience here: [http://www.marco.org/2010/10/10/an-open-enhancement- request-...](http://www.marco.org/2010/10/10/an-open-enhancement-request-to- the-mobile-safari-team)

<comment><USER2> I built something similar a while back (<http://pagestackandroid.appspot.com/> if you're curious), for iOS I found that the easiest way to set up bookmarklets is to add them on the desktop (Safari or IE) and then sync to the phone. At the time bookmarklets didn't work on Android so we ended up making a native app (I think you have to register for the "share text" intent, it's been a while).

<comment><AUTHOR> Whoa, that looks awesome (and really good looking). Thanks for the tip :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Open source alternative for Android/Chrome: <http://www.2cloudproject.com/>

The experience is really nice because it uses the native Android 'share link' dialogue.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm a bit confused. By "magically appears on my computer", do you mean "open email and click link to open webpage in browser"? Or does it actually just open right away, somehow?

<comment><AUTHOR> If you keep the webpage open (extension to come), it'll open the link that you sent to the service. It'll be there waiting for you when you get back to your computer

See my reply to derek

<comment><USER4> Gotcha. So what happens if I don't have the webpage open on my desktop, or if I send multiple links?

<comment><AUTHOR> It just queues up on the website, and thus no magic :(

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is awesome! A simple idea, wonderfully executed. Couple of features I'd like to see: * An RSS/Atom/whatever feed of the articles, so they show up in my feed reader/Calibre * The exact same thing in reverse; Often, I'd just like to boil the text off a web page and read it on my phone on the morning/evening train commute. This possibly changes the scope of your weekend hack to something a lot more complex..

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks gnok!

Indeed, an RSS feed would be cool. In the queue ;)

The reverse is solved by Instapaper or ReadItLater. This is the reverse of those apps :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'd really like push support to the app, like the Handoff app, but in reverse. <http://www.handoffapp.com/>

<comment><AUTHOR> There is! (if I understand correctly)

It's hacky, but if you keep the webpage open, any links you send from your mobile will "push" (technically, it pulls) to your browser!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> The font of the headers looks a bit jagged for me for some reason. Not sure why but it really stands out. You may want to look into that.

</comment><comment><USER8> Been talking with @handoffapp about this and they say they're working on the same problem. Nice to have something in the wild though.</comment>