My Salary Progression in Tech - <AUTHOR> https://georgestocker.com/2019/03/14/my-salary-progression-in-tech/ <comment><USER45> > It's always been my intention to retire early, > I'm interested in making > huge money and retiring early, > I don't begrudge people with their crazy > salaries but I do get frustrated that I can't find success myself.

I am shocked and surprised at the same time (knowing that I only selected quotes of a few commentators).

Shocked to see the same mindset as many managing consultants and investment bankers I have met and worked with. They work a lot with the idea to stop working eventually. Not a single one of them has retired early. Not a single one of them I would call happy or satisfied (again: my bubble).

"Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived." - Dalai Lama

Surprised maybe because I hoped here on HN people might have a different mindset towards money and success. Or: know that there is not a strict connection between the two. To read all this "Keeping up with the Joneses" makes me sad...

Choose life, not career. Find something you love doing and do it for the 'work' itself, not for some postponed happiness.

<comment><USER46> > Choose life, not career. Find something you love doing and do it for the > 'work' itself, not for some postponed happiness.

Insightful story about the investment banker. Your policy about choosing life feels like good advice in light of that story. The implementation details, that's where it always gets difficult.

My story:

I want to make music. I think of music all the time. Whenever I made music I was passionate about it.

However:

\- my music training is limited

\- people that I know who are amazing alternate from being homeless to renting out a place. They are poor.

Do I have that much passion that I want to risk 10 to 20 years of my life in poor wealth and perhaps poor family life?

No. I want to live a middle class life while making music.

Sounds realistic?

Just follow your passion people, the invisible hand will help you.

Obviously I am cynical about this, I sincerely hope you can prove me wrong, for I would love to make music.

<comment><USER47> Look for the middle ground. I realized that I want to work on things I like, but I still need to eat, so I've decided to split my time. I want to work at least an hour to something I'm passionate about. That way, even if I spend more of my time working for someone else, I know I still spend some of my time doing something I love.

So follow your passion, but also your survival instinct.

<comment><USER46> > So follow your passion, but also your survival instinct.

As far as simple quotes go. This sounds optimistic, yet reasonable.

Based on your advice, maybe I should just go to Thailand and freelance as an app/web dev for 3 days per week and play guitar / make electronic music for the rest. I'd wonder how I'd prepare for economic down turns though.

I'd make about: 5000 euro's per month (@ 50 euro's per hour as a freelancer). Living on about 10000 euro's per year, I'd save 20000 euro's after taxes (Dutch, high taxes, yay!). Regardless of that, I guess I wouldn't need to worry about recessions after 2 years of part-time remote freelance work, not in South East Asia anyway.

Sounds doable, at first glance. I need more glances. Especially the, "what about my girlfriend, friends and family?" glance.

<comment><USER48> Worry about a wife and kids when you WANT to worry about it. Living the life you want is the best way to meet a partner who supports that lifestyle.

Maybe one day you'll decide it's time for kids, and both you and your partner decide to head back to the EU for that. Or maybe you'll raise kids in Thailand. Or maybe your partner will get an amazing opportunity somewhere else entirely and you can be a stay at home parent, making beats while the kids are at school.

It's your life. Live it the way you want. Don't worry too much.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> Just for the sake of variety, I started off as a promising young software developer but let idealism and thirst for adventure get in the way :) Besides loving to code, having skills in high demand has allowed me to travel and explore the world for the past 20 years.

1997-1998 - $32k - Programmer for State government

1998-1999 - $86k - Consultant, Phoenix & NYC

2000-2004 - $32k - Software developer for NGO, Amsterdam

2004-2006 - $28k - Developer & Network Admin throughout Asia for NGO

2006-2007 - $14k - Independent remote software consultant while studying Mandarin full-time in Beijing

2007-2008 - $10k - Manager of ceramics studio in Jingdezhen, China

2008-2017 - $14k - Studio Ceramicist in Jingdezhen, part-time remote developer

2018 - $38k - Part-time remote software consulting while pursuing an MFA, Alfred, NY

<comment><USER50> Sounds like a lot of fun stories. Do you have any regrets?

<comment><USER49> definitely not! but the trade-off, of course, is that you'll most likely always be poor, never own a house, and never retire (not that i'd want to)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> My progression:

      23 - 45K  (University sysadmin, east coast)
      26 - 60k  (University research systems programmer, east coast)
      31 - 65k  (SWE, small IHV, remote)
      32-42 -- incremental raises up to $145K (senior SWE, same company)
      43 - 425k (Senior SWE, Google, Mountain View CA)
      44 - 390k (Senior SWE, Google, Mountain View CA)
      45 - 350k (Senior SWE, Netflix, Remote)
      46 - 400k (Senior SWE, Netflix, Remote)
      47 - 525k (Senior SWE, Netflix, Remote)
      48 - 600k (Senior SWE, Netflix, Remote)
      49 - 800k (Senior SWE, Netflix, Remote)

<comment><USER52> What kind of genius does one have to be to earn $800k? Or do you possess rare knowledge and connections in your industry?

<comment><USER53> probably TC, including stocks accumulated that got more value over time.

<comment><USER54> AFAIK Netflix doesn't give stocks.

<comment><USER55> According to their website [0]:

      Each employee chooses each year how much of their
      compensation they want in salary versus stock options.
      You can choose all cash, all options, or whatever
      combination suits you

And what's really freaking cool:

      There are no compensation handcuffs (vesting)
      requiring you to stay in order to get your money.
      People are free to leave at any time, without loss of
      money, and yet they overwhelmingly choose to stay.
      We want managers to create conditions where people love
      being here, for the great work and great pay.

[0] [https://jobs.netflix.com/culture](https://jobs.netflix.com/culture)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> philipp-H These are unbelievably high salaries. In Germany such salaries are possible only at management positions (not talking about IB) of large companies only. I visited US 3 years back and I found everything better - clothing cheaper, food more delicious, people friendlier and houses bigger. Yes you don't have social security and have poverty issues but I would still be in US than in Europe considering the amount of money you guys make. Comparing all this, it seems like we're are being exploited here.

I work in a management consulting firm (not in top3). Salary progression is as follows (all in euros before taxes): 2010-2012- Ausbildung + odd jobs - <USER2> 2012- 55k - full time job 2015-65k- full time job 2017-75k- full time job 2019-85k- full time job

I'm interested in making huge money and retiring early, but seems less certain to do that at the moment. Compared to you and many others here, I feel like I should act soon now, to reach such levels. But actually I don't know what I should do. Any suggestions?

<comment><USER56> Don't focus on the huge money aspect. There is a lot of selection bias here, only few people make this much outside of some very particular areas/companies.

Comparing Germany (where I'm also from) and the US, I'd say that Germany still gives much higher standard of living at the same salary, especially due to lower rents in the big cities.

FYI my progression

120k joining top3 mgmt consulting after PhD, stayed for 4yrs, left when being promoted to project leader (200-250k)

200k in mgmt position at e-commerce company in Berlin

Anyway, I think money matters way less than happiness in the job and a good work-life-balance, at least when you have no debt and aren't struggling financially (=there is enough money left for vacations and some savings)

<comment><USER57> > 200k in mgmt position at e-commerce company in Berlin

For the context: this is an insane amount of money in Berlin, which used to be one of the poorest capitals in Western Europe. Most software engineers make 60-70k.

> after PhD,

A quick question: does it matter from which university one received his PhD in Germany?

I read multiple comments, that unlike in the US and in the UK, most universities in Germany are considered more or less equal.

But wouldn't a MSc / PhD from Humboldt University of Berlin be considered above a MSc / PhD from University of Potsdam when applying for jobs and negotiating the compensation?

<comment><USER56> In Germany the university playing field is much more level than elsewhere. While certain universities stand out in certain areas, it's not a deciding factor in most cases. Many of the small town universities are actually quite renowned.

The big divide is Universität vs Fachhochschule (university of applied sciences), which are in many fields considered inferior unless they have special profile (eg highly international).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> I am Asian but was born and raised in Australia. I have a Bachelor of Science and I work as a web developer, e.g. Spring, ASP.NET, React, WordPress, Drupal, etc.

2013 - 23yo - $45K - First job - Magento developer building eCommerce websites for clients.

2014 - 24yo - $54K

2015 - 25yo - $70K - Second job - Magento / Shopify / WordPress developer, building eCommerce websites for clients.

2016 - 26yo - $75K

2017 - 27yo - $80K - Third job - Full stack web developer - <USER3> using Spring and React to build bespoke solutions for clients.

2018 - 28yo - $85K

I don't begrudge people with their crazy salaries but I do get frustrated that I can't find success myself. I'm really struggling with savings and building up a nest egg for retirement.

<comment><USER59> Web development and other easy domains like iOS / Android are quickly going the way of other craft jobs of the past: Blue collar.

If you want to make above average salaries you're going to have to specialize. Find something that is both challenging (to reduce barrier to entry) and niche (to demand a higher salary). In other words - specialize. Staying as a generic web/ios/android dev is only going to guarantee that your salary becomes more and more diluted by the avalanche of developers entering the field. The barrier to entry is just too low.

<comment><USER60> I really don't agree with this. I'm a 27 year old JS-focused web dev @150k base.

I understand that the bootcamps and proliferation of web-teaching schools have made web dev _seem_ like the easy thing, and I agree that what I do is less complex than these $800k-earning data engineers, but web development in 2019 is no joke. The same goes for iOS/Android.

The types of things these companies are trying to build are not just "slap it together in a week and done" type projects and it takes experience to architect and engineer them effectively. Your average bootcamp grad is not able to do it yet.

iOS/Android/Web development forms the 3 primary portals to a company's clients, and as long as that's true, the value of such skillsets will remain high.

<comment><USER61> Who is a data engineer here making $800k?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Some context: PhD in EE, but spend most of my time coding.

        2011: $100k, industry R&D lab, VA
        2012: $150k, "", ""
        2013: $150k, "", ""
        2014: $0, self-employed and didn't turn a profit
        2015: $100k, academic researcher, Midwest
        2016: $160k, industry R&D, SV
        2017: $165k, "", ""
        2018: $170k, "", ""

Since 2016, I've been working in SV for a company that pays engineers all cash, a modest bonus, and no stock. I like the work and people, but I feel like I'm leaving a lot of money on the table.

Almost anywhere else in the country, I'd be making a considerable amount of money. In SV, it doesn't feel that way. Myself and most of my (unmarried) coworkers are in our 30s-40s and living in studio apartments. I couldn't provide a family with the same lifestyle my parents gave me (a house, two cars, safe neighborhood, good school district, mother could stop working for several years to raise me), and they managed without college educations.

I've recently tried making the jump into a FAANG company or unicorn, but so far no luck. One company was willing to give feedback: I don't have enough experience with large scale systems. It's tough, because I've aged out of junior positions, but I guess I lack the right experience for experienced positions. Still have a couple irons in the fire though.

<comment><USER63> Honestly, time to leave SV if you want to provide for a family. I'm in Atlanta. 10 years experience, 135k base, 150k total comp (401k and bonus). You can easily provide what you parents provides you here for 100k salary, which can be easily had. No one will judge you if you don't have large scale systems experience.

<comment><USER64> As a potentially helpful data point, I've occasionally been approached for senior technical roles in Atlanta, at large non-tech companies, where they've opened with $600-700k total comp. While I've never seriously pursued a job in Atlanta, that market apparently has at least some willingness to pay well for high-end technical talent that I would not have expected.

<comment><USER65> Are you open to sharing which companies? I've looked extensively in Atlanta and haven't found anything near SV comp. Square was the highest that I found.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> Salary progression, no college degree. Cash only comp, no RSUs or anything like that.

      20 - $65k   (Office Rural NY, SE)
      21 - $65k   (Remote, 10 Person Startup, SE)
      22 - $75k   (Remote, 10 Person Startup, SE)
      23 - $85k   (Remote, 10 Person Startup, SE)
      24 - $85k   (Remote, 10 Person Startup, SE)
      25 - $225k  (Remote, SF Series B Startup, Lead SE)
      26 - $225k  (Remote, SF Series B Startup, Lead SE)
      27 - $393k  (Office, SF Series C/D Startup, Principal SE)
      28 - $393k  (Office, SF Series C/D Startup, Principal SE)
      29 - $0     (Took a year off)
      30 - $0     (Took a year off)
      31 - $150k  (Founded a startup)

<comment><USER67> You paid yourself $150k in your first year as startup founder? Huh.

<comment><USER66> Yeah, weird situation, good business opportunity + good funding. The barnacles that come with a high income means that it's hard to cut back. I would have trouble living on less than this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> Where you live influences your salary by quite a bit. You insert javascript ad tags? That's ~70k/yr in southern california, and 150k/yr in New York as remote. If you have experience building a system to handle a billion metrics per day, of course you can jump into a Senior Engineer IV position (or whatever) at 180k... It's hard to talk about salaries when the context is opaque because titles and skills are so fungible on both sides (employers and employees)

</comment><comment><USER69> I did something like this once, but from a different angle. Since salaries usually trend up, it's interesting to look at each salary bump in terms of how much money it makes for you over your entire working lifetime.

For example, if your first job pays $60k, and your working years are say 52 years total, the payout from sustained employment is $3.12 million dollars (52 years * $65k).

If you then move onto another job 2 years later, and make $70k. The payout for that jump is $500k ($10k * 50 years).

Or another way is to look at how much each pay bump has made for you till now (instead of over your entire potential working lifetime).

This helped put into perspective for me how important certain pay increases were for me and how unimportant others were. For example, big pay increases that occurred recently haven't yet had time to really make me any significant money, but even modest ones from 20 years ago have.

It also _really_ puts into perspective how bad bonuses are vs wage increases. Even a large bonus pales in comparison to decades of small increases.

It also gave me better information when I chose to take a job at lower pay, in terms of how much I was sacrificing, and when I eventually ended back up where I was, how much that choice was actually costing me over my lifetime.

</comment><comment><USER70> Throwaway account; I am currently in my late 30s.

Graduated from Kansas University in 2008.

2008 to 2010 - $50K CTO/co-founder of a small company

2011 - $125K SDE II @ Amazon

2012 - $125K SDE II @ Amazon

2013 - $175K SDE III @ Amazon

2014 - $217K SDE III @ Amazon

2015 - $200K E5 @ Facebook

2016 - $500K E6 @ Facebook

2017 - $800K E7 @ Facebook

2018 - $1M E7 @ Facebook

2019 ~ $1.25M E7 @ Facebook

<comment><USER71> I really need to get these skills up to snuff and get my butt back to the US. These salaries are ridiculous.

<comment><USER72> Not salary. It's total comp. Most of it is stock growth.

<comment><USER71> Makes sense actually. Still the tax paid on the sale of stock (held for a year or more I think) is taxed under the Bush era cap gains values of only 15% IIRC so that's pretty good.

<comment><USER73> When your stock gets awarded, the full amount is taxed as income. If you don't sell that stock for a year and then sell it, any gains from the price at the award date and the sell date are taxed as cap gains so not really.

<comment><USER71> Ugh that complicated things for sure.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER74> I have worked in Spain and Sweden. My salary as developer has been in the range of €32K-€45K in the past 15 years in Spain. It has been around €65K in Sweden (similar to what now friends make in Spain). And it is below €100K as an architect.

The cost of living in Sweden is higher than in Spain. And Spanish salaries in IT has soared. So, economically, it was not worth moving. But, the experience of living abroad is worth the money.

It is difficult to compare with USA salaries as here there is more taxes but you get better services. For me the deal breaker is the equality. I know that people around me makes a living wage. But, I will not discard to move to any other country in the future for the experience as every country has its own charm.

<comment><USER75> It is difficult to compare, but the reality is that especially at FAANG companies the company has good services. They provide transport to/from the office, healthcare, retirement stuff, etc. However, the taxes in Europe are higher.

<comment><USER76> There are some benefits in knowing that the people that make your food, drive you, clean your streets, etc. don't live out of their car.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> I've been pretty fortunate. Hard to believe that in 2004, my little family survived on only $16k. That was a tough year. I was really grateful for government assistance, as we were below the poverty line.

And last year I made more than $2M. I paid more than $1M in income taxes. I hope some of that money is going to help little families like mine in 2004.

2004: $16k

2005: $36k

2006: $47k

2007: $53k

2008: $56k

2009: $63k

2010: $53k

2011: $116k

2012: $152k

2013: $160k

2014: $246k

2015: $444k

2016: $556k

2017: $1830k

2018: $2260k

<comment><USER78> Wow! What did you do that led to such a dramatic growth starting in 2013?

<comment><USER77> I don't want to be too specific, as I'd rather keep this anonymous. But I happened to find myself with some rare and highly valuable skills, and I took on a lot of new responsibilities. I'm now in technical management.

I don't think my success is necessarily repeatable, I just happened to see some opportunities and seize them. I've been fortunate.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER79> I have no qualms letting people know my comp so they know that is possible, and helped many developers in my short 6 year career get better jobs/get life changing comp.

Caveat to my numbers - I am an asian male math PhD dropout from a top 15 graduate program who had hardly coded prior to his first developer job. I also have substantial open source contributions to major libraries, starting from my first developer job.

Nov. 2012 - $51k (in DC)

Sept. 2013 - $75k (new job)

May 2014 - $105k + paid relocation (in Silicon Valley)

August 2014 - $140k (laid off from last job, changed to new one in 2 hours)

Jan. 2015 - $145k (raise at same job)

July 2015 - $160k (laid off from prior job in June)

July 2017 - $280k = $160k base, $15k signing bonus, $105k RSUs in FAANG (laid off from prior job in May)

Sept. 2018 - $303k = $164k base, $14k performance/annual bonuses, $125k refresh RSUs (annual raise from performance reviews at same job - was band limited on the base salary)

<comment><USER80> Are you counting vested RSU? A 400k 4-year vesting RSU should only be counted 100k/year. Also, why do you keep getting fired? And do you tell your employers that you got laid off?

<comment><USER81> Fired =/= Laid-off

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER82> As a developer based in Europe looking at these numbers is quite depressing.

<comment><USER83> Can we really compare them, though? I live in France, where €90k/y puts you in the top 1% salaries. In the US, you'd need to earn $400k/y to be in the same position. Standard of living and other social benefits come to mind.

<comment><USER84> I don't get this thinking. I think everyone is making the comparison to Silicon Valley, which is ridiculously expensive because their are too many people making too much money that all want to be in the same place.

In most of the USA, not only do you make more than you would in France, but things are actually cheaper, not more expensive. Imagine you make $150,000/year, a really nice house cost $300,000 (think $2,000 monthly mortgage/taxes/insurance payment), groceries, electricity, internet, car for a small family is $2,000 month. And that is with a very high quality of life. If you want to live frugally cut all the expenses in half. The company provides health insurance.

I think the biggest difference might be that Americans report their salary before taxes, and I think Europeans tend to do it after taxes. $150,000/year with a small family is probably $110,000-$120,000 after taxes in most states. €90k after taxes is comparable. Just need to consider quality of life differences.

<comment><USER85> I hardly ever comment on HN (I usually lurk) but I felt compelled to due to the sheer amount of false claims in this comment.

First off, can we define "things" in your sentence "things are actually cheaper, not more expensive"? What are the "things" you're talking about?

Education? Eh... not really expensive in the US, is it? the US student loan debt is swelling at about $1.5 trillion... and counting. It speaks volume as to how costly education is in the US. [1]

Healthcare? Hugely expensive for a country as "rich" as the US. Unless, of course, you work for a generous employer and in that case, everything is paid for. Wait a second, I'm told not all employers provide a healthcare plan along with a 401k plan? That's unfortunate. Let's also remind ourselves that the US doesn't provide universal healthcare for all its citizens unlike other advanced industrialized countries. So if you happen to be jobless? You're SOL. Awe-effing-some. Let's move on... [2]

Housing? In SF/SV/NYC/Seattle/Washington/any major US city, housing is extremely expensive as is housing in any major European metropolis such as London/Paris/Munich/Zurich. I bet the $300,000 nice house you mention in your comment must be somewhere in the countryside where nobody lives, right? Let's make this clear: houses located in the middle of nowhere in any European country also cost zilch. Let's take France for instance: 30K euros gets you a 100 sqm house (even bigger sometimes) in the Creuse region. Yeah nobody wants to live there but hey at least I can own a large house for the price of a car. [3]

I could go on and on. I haven't even touched on other topics such as Internet, groceries, rent or insurance. Your comment comes across as plain ignorant and downward complacent. I don't get this tendency of always sugarcoating the US, as though it would make it magically more appealing to the average Joe to move there.

Please back up your claims next time with articles or sources. Just use your favourite search engine.

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#/media/File:Stude...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#/media/File:Student_loan_debt.png)

[2]: [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article- abstract/26746...](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article- abstract/2674671)

[3]: [https://www.seloger.com/list.htm?enterprise=0&natures=1,2,4&...](https://www.seloger.com/list.htm?enterprise=0&natures=1,2,4&places=%5b%7bcp%3a23%7d%5d&projects=2,5&qsversion=1.0&sort=a_px&types=2&LISTING- LISTpg=2)

<comment><USER84> I just live and work in the USA my whole life, if anything I'm wrong about France. I'm not going to bother to refute most of your claims, as the premise is what are the salaries of tech people, not what are the standards of living of jobless people in San Francisco. Most of the US population, including myself and most of my acquaintances, live outside of those major cities, and that was the point I was making. You listed off literally the most expensive places to live in the USA, where the majority of people do not live. Education expenses are whatever you want to pay, we have plenty of choices including cheap choices, and generous scholarships for those that can't afford it but are smart.

<comment><USER85> Amazing.

I just caught you out making stuff up and now you resort to making yet again even more stuff up: "Education expenses are whatever you want to pay" (yeah, let's just buy 1/10th of a Bachelor degree, sounds like a plan to cut the costs), "you listed off literally the most expensive places to live in the USA, where the majority of people do not live" (sure, nobody lives in major cities) (why the hell are they called major cities then? God knows).

This conversation is leading nowhere so I'm just gonna stop responding.

<comment><USER86> We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. Your points appear reasonable, but the personal attacks and nastiness with which you've made them are unacceptable here.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email email@example.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER87> * 2018 $1,155,000

* 2017 $1,259,000 Senior Staff Software Engineer

* 2016 $661,000 _time off

_ 2015 $1,543,000

* 2014 $1,465,000

* 2013 $1,241,000

* 2012 $876,000 Threatened to quit, got a bunch of stock

* 2011 $368,000

* 2010 $318,000

* 2009 $244,000

* 2008 $192,000 Staff Software Engineer

* 2007 $167,000

* 2006 $165,000

* 2005 $157,000 Senior Softare Engineer, Norcal

* 2004 $246,000 _stock sale

_ 2003 $80,000

* 2002 $76,000 Software Engineer II

* 2001 $102,000

* 2000 $59,000

* 1999 $55,000 Software Engineer, Northern VA

<comment><USER61> Still in VA?

Is it typical for senior SWE to make 1.2 million?

How can one reach that point faster?

<comment><USER87> Staff Engineers at FAANG typically make 400-500k/pa. What made the difference was a retention grant. I got a competing offer and they gave me millions in stock, which I accepted and stayed. After I was fully vested, I basically got lucky and found another big company that had a department that was doing some pretty undisciplined hiring and brought me in at Senior Staff. I'm not really doing the job at that level, but they don't want me to leave, so we're in stasis. After the initial grant runs out this will stabilize at ~700k.

I don't know how to repeat what I did. I think retention grants are rarer than they used to be. However, once you get to Staff, you have a lot of negotiating leverage. I received multiple offers with initial grants over 2 million.

Build relationships, progress your career, get good at whiteboard interviews, and change jobs more often to make progress.

<comment><USER80> How often you changed jobs? And what kind of work do you do?

<comment><USER87> I've only changed jobs three times. I should have changed a lot more. I do iOS dev these days.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER88> About three years after graduating I stumbled into some extra freelance work a school friend passed on to me. Then got lucky again by finding myself in a well-paid (for UK) devops niche.

\- 2009: £1,000/yr Mostly depressed, unemployed and unmotivated. Some income from teaching English and arbitraging signup bonuses on gambling websites. Lived close to rent-free by subletting rooms in the apartment I was living in. (Spain)

\- 2010-12: £8,000/yr English Teacher (China, full-time)

\- 2012: £20/hour PHP dev (China, freelance)

\- 2012-13: £16,000/yr Rails dev (China, full-time)

\- 2014: £72,000/yr Rails dev (London, contracting)

\- 2014: £102,000/yr Devops (London, contracting)

\- 2015-16: £60/hr Rails+Go dev (SE Asia, some remote freelancing but mostly not working)

\- 2017: £120,000/yr Devops (London, contracting)

\- 2018: £158,400/yr Devops (London, contracting)

\- 2019: £192,000/yr Devops (London, remote contracting)

<comment><USER89> I've never heard of those 18-19 London salaries. Woah! Finance though surely?

<comment><USER90> I have a few friends in London, contracting whilst working a Single Person Business (lacking the proper terminology). Super high wages £500 - £700 per day, whilst having an effective tax rate or 13%. Boom.

<comment><USER91> Where are you getting 13% from?

If you pay yourself a salary from a ltd company there's ~14% Employers NI, 12%-2% Employee NI Depending on tax band, 20-40% Income tax depending on tax band. If you pay a dividend there's 19% Corporation tax plus 7.5%-32.5% Dividend tax.

So 46%-56% tax on salary and 26.5%-51.5% tax on dividends. Nowhere near 13%, unless you're talking about 'creative accounting' by running non-business expenses through the company to effectively get them tax free.

<comment><USER90> Yeah, by all accounts reading online indicates a 45% tax rate for a sole- trader[1].

I'll have to enquire with the few mates there -- don't see a reason as to why they'd bullshit me. Frankly I have nfi however, apologies for the cop-out of an answer.

1: [https://www.highspeedtraining.co.uk/hub/sole-trader- tax/](https://www.highspeedtraining.co.uk/hub/sole-trader-tax/)

<comment><USER92> > I'll have to enquire with the few mates there

Sole traders are different to one-person Ltd companies. As a one-person Ltd, you used to get a lot of tax breaks, but over the last 5-6 years they seem to have been steadily eroded.

Anyone paying a rate as low as 13% now is probably using a borderline-legal grey-area scheme, which is dangerous because HMRC not only hit those folks up for back taxes when they find them, but put fines on top too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> Some random points of advice after 30 years in tech...

First, decide whether you are more interested in pushing forward on technology or on earning more. Yes, you probably want both, but you should decide which matters more. Also, note that the answer will likely change if your personal situation changes, in particular, if you start a family.

These points are primarily for those who put earning more above pushing technology. I was married early on and that became the priority for me.

\- Always work to make your boss successful. There are a variety of advantages to this. First, if you make them successful and they rise in the company, they are more likely to give you a promotion and raise as well. Second, if they change jobs and go to a place you'd like to work, whether it's in one, five, ten years or more, you'll be someone they call when they need to hire. Third, it makes it much easier for them to go to bat for you when you ask for a raise.

Given all of that, it's also important to work for bosses that you want to see succeed. If you really don't like your boss, and you find it distasteful to help them be successful, work towards their success while you look for another boss.

\- If you want to earn more, ask for more responsibility. I was married when I was an engineer of 3 years. To earn more, I asked to be made a project lead. I delivered several projects, then asked to be made a manager. I managed several people, then asked for a transfer to start and manage a remote sales and service office. In each case, I was given 30%+ raises.

The point here is that you need to ask. Let your boss and HR know that you want to be considered for promotion. Once you've asked, remind them at more or less regular intervals, perhaps 6 months. You want it to stick in their minds that you are looking to move up and at some point, an opportunity may come up that you'd be on the short list for.

\- Change jobs or companies. This is typically the most effective way to get a raise. _The key is to look while you 're still working_. Many people in tech keep their heads down until the company goes through a rough patch and lays off or shuts down. Then, if they don't have runway, they have to take the first position that comes along. If you think you need to move, keep your job and do your search so you can evaluate each opportunity without being under pressure.

\- Treat options or other equity as the icing, not the cake. You can be deliberate about accumulating wealth without windfalls by consistently earning more than you spend and conscientiously investing your savings. If you're able to cash in on options, that is great, invest it, buy a home or whatever. But earn what you're worth in cash.

<comment><USER94> The only thing I've ever seen work to get significantly more money is changing companies. Companies used to give somewhat decent raises 3-8% but outside of that, it doesn't seem to matter what one does. I have a great boss and have been promised raises multiple times. Instead, our CEO cut our vacation in half. The only reason I haven't gone somewhere else is because I work remotely and can put in the most minimal effort. I regret the first few years putting in a lot of effort, getting RSI, solving many problems ... but for what? For nothing. Actually, less than nothing. Due to inflation and vacation taken away, I make less. So I work less. Then people wonder why something like over 80% of workers in the US are disengaged. This is why. Most companies are too cheap to provide proper compensation, vacation, and benefits. Serves them right.

<comment><USER95> I think you have to get really lucky, or really go above and beyond.

I've been at my company for almost two years and I've gotten a net 70% raise across this time frame. Although it's only from 60k to 100k CAD so, YMMV especially in more senior roles.

<comment><USER94> Oh trust me, I went above and beyond. Migrating a live app from mysql to pgsql. ALL the devops work for the entire company, then moving all that infrastructure to Docker and reducing costs so that all our apps run on one cluster of servers. Migrating multiple live apps from one provider to another without downtime. Working late and even weekends. Rewriting a server completely to make it much more robust and less buggy. Rewriting the database and serializer parts of our API because the original coders used super slow implementations. Implementing multiple experiments using various databases to deal with another slow codebase. Dealing with teams of contractors that wrote code so shitty, it would make one cry, it was so horrible. Then having to take charge of their shitty mess because they sure as fuck won't. Saving the company over $100k a year by not using ridiculously priced API gateway services. Bringing in another dev to help out when our other main developer left.

I could go on and on. Any one of those things was above and beyond on its own and I never once got a performance based bonus, let alone a raise. Then we got new management and they rewarded us by cutting our vacation. I am completely unappreciated, or at the very least, that appreciation is not shown in any way that matters. I am, however, no longer at a spot in my life, thankfully, that work defines my life. I still make good money and I focus on other things in my life. I let the execs worry about deadlines and bullshit like that. They can panic and get anxiety all they want, it won't magically get the work done or get it done quicker. As I said, my bosses are decent in all other ways other than appreciating their employees with appropriate compensation / vacation. Who knows, that might change. I'm not holding my breath though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER96> I graduated with a Bachelors in Computer Science in July 2017 in India. All amounts below are the fixed salary without any stock options or bonuses.

2017-2018 - $8k - Backend Dev for major eCommerce 2018-2019 - $10k - same role

Laid off due to downsizing in Nov 2018 with a healthy severance.

Dec 2018-2019 - $17k - Backend Dev for a logistics company

<comment><USER97> Nice to see a non-US/EU contribution. What is the middle class cost of living in your area?

<comment><USER96> I live in a slightly upper class area in Gurgaon since it's walking distance to my workplace and hence save on commute.

Rent and expenses is almost 30k INR (roundabout $450) a month. Apart from that it's all takeout food money and any movies or shopping you might do.

My initial pay was a little too low to afford the place I am living at since I'd almost always run out of money by the end of the month and was living paycheck to paycheck. The first raise did improve situations a bit and I could easily save around 10k INR per month.

My current salary affords me very comfortable living with enough to invest for the future and still have around 30k INR per month in savings.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER98> So I had posted this earlier but I'll post again with another update. I'm based out of Toronto.

        2012 - small business owner                             - 60k AED / yr (no taxes) - built Wordpress websites in my spare time
        2013 - technical cloud marketing intern                 - 60k / yr CAD            - FAANGish company
        2013 - contractor                                       - 30k / yr CAD            - Engineering consultancy
        2014 - Software Dev Fullstack                           - 22k / yr CAD            - early stage startup
        2015 - Lead Software Dev Fullstack / Architect + DevOps - 55k / yr CAD            - very early stage startup
        2015 - Lead Software Dev Fullstack / Architect + DevOps - 60k / yr CAD            - very early stage startup
        2016 - Software Dev                                     - 60k / yr CAD            - medium stage startup
        2016 - Techincal Consultant                             - 90k / yr CAD            - small public company
        2017 - Software Engineer + DevOps                       - 99k / yr CAD            - medium public company
        2018 - Senior Software Engineer + DevOps + SRE          - 120k / yr CAD           - medium public company
        2019 - Senior Software Engineer + DevOps + SRE          - 135k / yr CAD           - medium public company

I was in the process of getting promoted and getting a higher raise, but stuff (some in my control and some out of) didn't work out. I've been focusing on my life for a bit.

<comment><USER99> Thanks for sharing your salary history. I am also located in Toronto and this is my salary history (all CAD):

      2014 - Junior System Administrator    $42k    - fresh graduate, large company
      2015 - System Administrator           $55k    - large company
      2016 - DevOps Engineer                $80k    - <USER4>
      2018 - Senior DevOps Engineer         $95k    - large company
      2019 - Site Reliability Engineer      $125k   - medium-size company

</comment></comment><comment><USER100> I appreciate the increasing trend toward openness. I think it benefits everyone to see what's out there.

My journey All USD $ are gross annualized and approximate. No bonuses/stock. Doesn't include employer-paid health or retirement.

2006, Tenured professor at a community college, $43K to $65K

2011, Developer at a state agency, $84K

2013, Development Team Lead, $90K

2017, IT Manager, $100K

</comment><comment><USER101> For folks in the United States, if you want to help, your earnings history is available via the Social Security website.

[https://blog.ssa.gov/tag/earnings- history/](https://blog.ssa.gov/tag/earnings-history/)

</comment><comment><USER102> Southern New England, not in a metro area. White male, stubbornly refusing to leave his hometown area for his career.

2009: $25 per hour, contractor, on site at giant pharmaceutical company. Built a web app using jsp and tomcat

2010: $55k per year, University IT department. Building web apps in python for university staff. Crazy union contract- 35hr work week and 5 weeks PTO

2012: same job, same benefits, applied for a "reclassification" in the union levels. $75k per year.

2015: $85k per year. Onsite, big media and entertainment company. Cut my teeth building highly available distributed systems.

2017: $135k per year. Remote. Jumped ship to do similar kinds of work at a remote-first startup that could pay more.

2018: same company offered me a raise (without my asking!) $150k per year.

I've never worked more than 40 hours on a regular basis, but production issues occasionally produce a 60 hour week, maybe twice a year or so.

<comment><USER103> What stack / tech did you use for "highly available distributed systems" and do you feel like it helped differentiate your skill set in terms of hireability?

<comment><USER102> Sorry if this is too much text, but I feel like I have a decent sense about this, since I've been interviewing recently. Of course, we all live in bubbles, and there may be some tech bubbles extremely different from mine.

Your tech stack in a distributed system will often be diverse and wide- ranging. In my opinion, no specific combination of tools is very important for hireability, though commonly recurring characters will certainly help your resume.

I write or work on lots of small services, mostly in Java, some Scala, occasionally Go or Python. The JVM is probably the most popular programming platform for this domain but some companies do without it entirely (Go, Python, Node.js are all somewhat popular).

Most services run in Docker containers on AWS. I feel like almost everyone is in the cloud these days.

There are lots of REST APIs, so you'll want a good handle on HTTP. In my work, even more than HTTP, I've dealt with streaming/realtime data coming over Apache Kafka or AWS Kinesis or AWS SQS. Lots of people use RabbitMQ, but I never have.

And I interface with lots of different data stores - Postgres, S3, Dynamodb, Elasticsearch, Cassandra, Redis. And Zookeeper, more for coordination than storage. Zookeeper is fun, but very niche.

In terms of building a resume to get hired in this domain, these are some things you want:

\- Be able to work in a few languages and with several data stores. Be able to talk about which kind of DB is appropriate for what use.

\- Demonstrate proficiency in concurrent programming and asynchrony via multithreading/futures/promises/channels or whatever the relevant constructs on your platform of choice are.

\- Have used some kind of streaming solution or message queue (kafka is neat and widely used, if don't already have one in mind)

\- Have experience with provisioning and orchestration on a cloud platform (AWS, GCP, Azure,...)

\- Be able to talk about tools and techniques for monitoring, alerting, and tracing in systems where a request or a stream element must traverse many services.

\- Be able to talk about typical distributed-systems challenges at a conceptual level:

       * Why and how to partition your data, both in a stream and at rest

       * How to avoid or resolve consistency issues, when and how to trade consistency for availability, coordinations strategies, CRDTs

       * At-least-once processing, at-most-once, exactly-once, idempotency, why you would want each - how and when you can achieve each.

As a side note, I feel like, once you've built a decent distributed system or application, it's easy to make it look good on a resume. Either it's a high- throughput system and you can say you processed X thousands of requests per second with no downtime for a year, or else it's low throughput and you can double down on the fault-tolerance bit "even when we deliberately crashed half of the servers, the service remained available and end-to-end latency was only reduced by X amount". Of course, you need measure some stuff in order to have numbers to brag about. But hopefully you're collecting those metrics anyway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER104> I feel slightly motivated, but mostly crushed by these crazy TC levels.

Although I know I'm doing fairly decent for myself, as someone who is very critical of my own progress or lack of, it feels very disheartening to see people my age making 10x what I am, simply because they are located in SV, doing the same work.

In my area, short of being extremely fortunate to land some amazing fully- remote job, there is not one tech company that pays out anywhere close to 300k+ TC, unless you are in senior leadership or just consulting/doing work on the side.

I understand the reasons for the big disparity, but still... feels bad man.

<comment><USER105> Right there with you. I'm doing pretty decent, making 85k but straight out of college. At a nice start up in a big city. But 800k at Netflix? Good god.. I should mention I'm 'straight out of college' at 27, so that's contributing, too.

<comment><USER106> I would not get depressed, you're talking about an extremely small audience of developers in the field. If anything I'd look at it with aspiration, you're reading up on hackernews and you're straight out of college at a startup. Keep hustling no idea where you'll end up, I assume netflix is not paying kids out of college 800K :D

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER107> I'll throw my experience in government in here because I don't see a lot of that here, I am a government lead now with a ERP team.

USD, Before Taxes, DC area

2010 - 24k - First 'jobs' working Geek Squad and Helpdesk at a Healthcare Firm

2011 - 40k - Quit second job, started grad school, started working for the Feds as an intern in the Digital Forensics space

2012 - 45k - "

2013 - 45k - "

2014 - 50k - Graduated Grad school, promoted to a GS-9 started working in the ERP space

2015 - 56k - Promoted to GS-11

2016 - 68k - Promoted to GS-12, got my CISSP for the hell of it

2017 - 80k - Debated quitting because of lack of opportunity

2018 - 89k - Promoted, given a lot of responsibility and a great opportunity to learn

</comment><comment><USER108> Honest question has anyone else seen salary decreases. I peaked at ~190k w2 contractor so no benefits. But after death march after death march and canceled projects. I got down to ~105. One of my biggest stress right now is due to money. Contributed to by a foreclosure that has a monthly payment. I've been east and west coast and tried FAANG, but unless I waited the vesting it was a drastic pay cut, and the midst of the foreclosure I needed hard cash. I keep on looking at my career and wondering what I did wrong.

<comment><USER109> Most FAANGs pay well even without vested stock, Amazon in particular relies heavily on stock for compensation but provides bonuses the first couple of years to compensate.

<comment><USER61> What does vested stock mean exactly? You can't sell until after a certain period? If so, how long is that period?

<comment><USER110> A certain number of shares of stock are set aside for you. When they "vest", that means you get them.

The vesting schedule varies, but probably the most common arrangement is that you get 1/4 of the shares per year for the next 4 years. Often you get nothing until you've been there for a year, then get a whole year's worth of stock in one big lump sum, and then get smaller amounts more frequently thereafter.

In the US, the stock is taxed as ordinary income on the day you get it. If its price goes up before you sell it, you also pay capital gains tax on the change in price that happened while you were holding it. (I sell all my stock immediately on general principle, so my capital gains taxes are tiny.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER111> In the spirit of this discussion, I'll share my journey. In 2015, my base was $95k. Today, it is $150k. Including stocks and bonuses, my total compensation went from ~$140k to $220k. In California, but not the Bay Area. I hold a Bachelor's from a pretty good university, but by no means an elite institution.

White guy from a modest background: grew up lower middle class, single mother who worked in retail, got free lunch, etc.

It feels odd to have moved and basically move up the economic totem poll to what I guess I'd call upper middle class. Life for people who stayed where I grew up is quite different than my life now.

<comment><USER112> An income over 220k is easily > 90% percentile. I do not know what upper middle class is supposed to mean. Does it mean 90-95 percentile?

<comment><USER113> > An income over 220k is easily > 90% percentile.

Every source I can find (2014-2018 data from a variety of places) puts it between 97th and just over 98th; probably hasn't changed more than a couple of points since.

> I do not know what upper middle class is supposed to mean. Does it mean > 90-95 percentile?

If by "middle class" one means _petit bourgeoisie_ , then 95th to 99.something percentile for the upper range of that class is fairly reasonable; the _haut bourgeoisie_ are a very narrow slice, and economic classes in that classic sense have overlapping income ranges, because they are more about how one relates to the economy than income level, though the two are correlated.

OTOH, the language of economic class these days is used in many murky and inconsistent ways.

EDIT: Just to be clear, the classic idea of the _petit bourgeoisie_ as the middle economic class of capitalist societies does not mean that they represent the average or some range around the average; the working class makes up the _vast majority_ , the _haut bourgeoisie_ (the class of major capitalists) is a tiny slice that controls most of the wealth, and the _petit bourgeoisie_ are a fairly thin (though much broader than the _haut bourgeoisie_ ), largely relatively rich class that is "middle" in the sense of deriving income from a mix including both a substantial contribution from personal labor (the predominant support for the working class) and a substantial contribution from personal capital (the predominant support for the _haut bourgeoisie_ )—the classic example of that mix being the independent small business owner whose labor is applied to their own capital rather than either being rented out to some capitalist, or gaining returns on capital by renting others labor to apply to it.

<comment><USER114> You could probably draw a quantitative line according to fraction of income paid as tax, since capital gains follow, ahem, different rules. It's good to be king!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER115> Adding mine, all at Google:

      2008: Base  $90K, Total $110K
      2009: Base $110K, Total $170K
      2010: Base $130K, Total $330K
      2011: Base $200K, Total $590K
      2012: Base $220K, Total $680K
      2013: Base $220K, Total $830K
      2014: Base $230K, Total $980K
      2015: Base $240K, Total $990K
      2016: Base $250K, Total $1.2M
      2017: Base $250K, Total $1.4M
      2018: Base $265K, Total $1.5M
      2019: Base $280K

(edited for formatting)

<comment><USER61> The total is after bonus only? Or..?

Any advice for others? Isn't it notoriously difficult getting hired at Google?

Do other non tech positions at Google pay as much?

What about positions like QA?

<comment><USER115> Total includes bonus and equity (which makes up the bulk of it, especially in later years). So some of the increases are also just reflecting increases in GOOG from grant to vesting.

I'm a software engineer. My impression is that pay for PMs (product managers) is very similar, although I couldn't say for sure. Not sure about other positions. And for QA specifically, I believe a lot are hired through a vendor so I imagine it would be very different.

I don't know if I have particularly useful advice. I think honestly it's a mix of happening to be good at what I do, working hard, and being in the right place at the right time (both in terms of ending up Google and being on the teams/projects that I did which helped me rise quickly).

The only thing I would say is that I very much did not go in expecting this or with the idea of optimizing for it. When I joined at the end of 2007, Google was already post-IPO and it wasn't clear (to me at least) that there was "big bucks" to be made there. At that time, it seemed like going into finance or to a startup was the way to go to optimize for that, and I thought I was leaving a bunch on the table picking Google over those. I do think it helped working with the mindset of doing what I truly enjoyed instead of "doing it for the money".

<comment><USER116> What is the nature of your work within SWE?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER117> Didn't feel comfortable sharing on my real account, but thought some might find this interesting.

Gender: male Location: east coast * 2013 - Graduated without a degree in CS. Worked at small start-up for 55k, no equity.

* 2014 - Raise to 75k, 0.5%

* 2015 - Raise to 85k, 1%

* 2016 - Quit for a FAANG. 220k total comp.

* 2017 - After 2 promos at the FAANG, ~330k.

* 2018 - After good previous year, received a special stock grant and made 475k. Same eng level.

<comment><USER118> Holy shit you went from $55k to $475k in 5 years with no college degree.

This is a big reason I'm in tech. What a rocketing salary progression.

<comment><USER61> Would this kind of progression not be possible in finance?

<comment><USER119> That kind of progression is probably very possible in finance, but not without a relevant degree.

<comment><USER61> So it's possible in tech, without a degree at all(OP says he has an unrelated degree)? I keep reading horror stories online of people with degrees, internships/experience, hackathons, projects, all that under their belt having a hard time in their careers. And also a lot of naysayers saying you can't make it far without a degree.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Didn't read the article, I did read the thread.

How do I get into the USA?

The difference is too big, even when I give 20% to charity.

Or any ideas how to become well off in Europe?

Tech feels so much more difficult than manager or other business roles (cognitively). I feel like I should switch if I can't get into the USA.

<comment><USER120> I grew up in Europe (Malta), now in Seattle. I think Dublin is the place to be for tech opportunities and competitive compensation. If you work for a US company you can transfer from the EU to the US with an L1B visa quite easily (it's what I did) as long as the company you work for is okay with the transfer. The L1B expires after 5 years, but you can apply for permanent resident while on it.

<comment><USER46> Thanks for the strategy. I really appreciate it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER121> Created new account to share since my other could easily trace back to me...

Maybe this isn't super relevant since this is mostly about tech but I've found my technology skills are what contribute to give me a huge advantage, even in finance. All figures in USD. All finance jobs are in research.

23: 50k - tech consulting business

23: 90k - same. Relocate to NYC

24: 110k - negotiated at consulting company

24: 160k = 110k + 50k bonus - move to financial company

25: 200k = 110k + 90k bonus

26: 210k = 120k + 90k bonus

27: 150k - joined small team starting new business in finance

28: 150k

29: 150k

30: 500k - business is making money

<comment><USER61> Could you elaborate or expand on the business?

This is your business or you're just someone that got in at the beginning? Like a startup or a division of the company, you were originally at?

<comment><USER121> I can't answer your question without giving away more information than I'm comfortable with.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER122> Wowza, hard not to look at these things and feel twinges of jealousy. It's hard to stay grounded in what the important things in life are....

United States - have perfect SAT and ACT scores, went through university for free

Age 21-28 - Work in NGOs, non-profits - $25k Age 28 Finish Masters degree Age 29-32 - Work in NGOs and non-profits and policy analysis - $32k Age 32-34 - Suicide Counselor - $35k Age 35 - Bootcamp - become Rails developer -$60k Age 36 - $65k Age 37 - ask for raise $80k Age 38 - $85k Age 39 - <USER5> developer/manage projects/do mentoring/keep coding - $90k Age 40 - $92k

Based on these it seems like 5+ years of experience on the backend and frontend with multiple stacks and the ability to manage 4+ engineers, keep backlogs groomed, talk to clients to manage expectations and translate requirements into usr stories and acceptance crtieria, etc should be more than $95k - and yet $95k still seems high for a developer anywhere outside of the US

</comment><comment><USER123> I see a lot of these crazy high salaries (there's nothing much higher than $150 for a sr dev around here on the east) are in SF area.

Are these the exception FAANG salaries or are most companies paying such high salaries out there? It just blows my mind I can't imagine making such money as a dev and I've been doing this for a lot of years.

<comment><USER124> Median total compensation at FB is $240K and at Google $197K as per SEC filings. Folks with $1M figures are probably in top 3-5% in these companies. I would also add that if you are in bay area with $240K total comp and have family, your standard of living is probably not all that enviable.

[https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2019/01/15/median-p...](https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2019/01/15/median- pay-apple-salaries-fb-goog-nflx-msft-tsla.html)

<comment><USER61> How can one see these compensation data's in the SEC filings themselves? Where do I look?

Are you saying some of the people here with 400-800k salaries are top 5% at a FAANG?

<comment><USER50> Managers will usually pull 400k+, I wouldn't say that's a top 5% salary. Above 300k isn't unusual at all. Check out levels.fyi for some examples of top-of- band salaries in each level.

<comment><USER61> Engineering managers?

Are there any non tech management level positions at FAANG that net these types of salaries as well?

<comment><USER50> Yea EMs. I don't know about non-tech.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER125> Canadian Software developer

Salaries in USD, before taxes, including lack of bonus.

\- 2010: Dropout

\- 2011: $0

\- 2012: $33,000

\- 2013: $36,000

\- 2014: $39,000

\- 2015: $42,000

\- 2016: $45,000

\- 2017: $55,000

\- 2018: $0 (startup)

\- 2019: $0 (startup)

What the hell am I doing with my life? I consider myself pretty damn good too. The "startup" isn't going anywhere.

I think I'll go to university. Maybe in 4 years I'll be able to earn $150,000...

<comment><USER126> Without knowing your skills, there's a good chance you've just been working for the wrong companies. There are lots of companies in Canada that pay absolute garbage to software engineers. And if you don't have the skills that higher-paying companies look for (mainly coding+algorithms+data structures in interviews), you can get that without going to college. Also look into working remotely for US companies.

<comment><USER125> The company I worked for was a software shop. Most people there were developers.

I don't really have algorithms and data structure skills. I almost never have to do these things in real life. I have done mostly front-end stuff (web and mobile). Should I go all-in on LeetCode? Will that guarantee a good paying job?

It seems like 4 more years without income to get a bachelor's degree would be worth it considering the crazy compensations people are sharing here. I would earn more in 2 years there than I did in my entire career here.

<comment><USER50> If you can solve a leetcode medium in an hour _and_ get a work visa in the US, then you can easily double or triple that salary. Just throwing this out there: grinding interview problems sucks but it's the best thing you can do for your income in industry these days.

<comment><USER125> I can't get a US work visa. I need a bachelor's degree.

<comment><USER126> There are some US companies that will let you work remotely.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER127> I agree that we need to abolish the taboo of not talking about salaries. It creates an information asymmetry that primarily benefits employers.

</comment><comment><USER128> Currently taking a break from my PhD, although I plan to finish it one day. Here's my salary progression as a CS researcher in Silicon Valley:

2015: $104k (worked in an R&D lab for an enterprise company)

2016: $106k (laid off at the end of the year as part of reorg)

2017: $115k + $10k bonus (short stint as a SRE at a famous company that unfortunately didn't go very well....)

2018: Consultant at a startup for $120/hr. Unfortunately this opportunity didn't last. Ended up taking a research internship.

2019: $95k (promoted to full-time researcher)

I love my current job; in fact, it's one of the best I've had. But Silicon Valley is a very expensive place, and I'm wondering if there are opportunities to do CS research in industry outside of Silicon Valley.

</comment><comment><USER129> 2005 - $15k consulting and college

2006 - $16k consulting and college

2007 - $20k Company 1

2008 - $26k Company 1

2009 - $40k Company 2

2010 - $52k Company 3

2011 - $104k Company 3

2012 - $170k Company 4

2013 - $180k Company 5

2013 - $215k Company 6

2015 - $250k Company 7

2016 - $350k Company 7

2017 - $450k Company 7

2018 - $700k Company 7

2019 - $1.6M Company 7 *

* Based on stock remaining at today's share price.

Only the company >=6 had significant portions of compensation contribution through equity.

I recently interviewed and secured two offers for around $1.5M but ended up staying. Offered role were Distinguished Engineer / VP Engineering.

<comment><USER130> Is company 7 Amazon ?

</comment></comment><comment><USER120> My progression:

2008: Graduated with a BS in CS from University of London. I grew up in Europe.

2008: €30K - Joined a small company in Europe as their only programmer doing vehicle GPS tracking.

2009: €30K - Still there.

2010: €50K - Joined Amazon in Dublin, Ireland as an SDE-1 (entry level) in the AWS CloudWatch team.

2011: €75K - Still at Amazon, same team.

2012: $120K - Moved to Seattle with the same team. Promoted to SDE-2.

2013: $150K - Still at Amazon, same team.

2014: $185K - Promoted to SDE-3 (senior level), same team.

2015: $230K - Still at Amazon, same team.

2016: $390K - Still at Amazon, same team.

2017: $470K - Still at Amazon, same team.

2018: $511K - Still at Amazon, same team.

2019: Left Amazon last month. You can read more about why here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19135399](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19135399)

All figures are gross income as shown in my W2. My last 3 year-end (Dec) paystubs: [http://imgur.com/a/EgIVQln](http://imgur.com/a/EgIVQln)

Ask me anything.

<comment><USER131> Graduated in the late 90s with a degree in CS. I read this and I wonder, where the hell did I go wrong? If this is commonplace, then how did I fail so spectacularly?

<comment><USER132> A significant portion of his compensation was via recurring Amazon.com stock grants (RSUs). By year 4+ most employees are looking at least 3 separate stock grants vesting every single year.

Had you bought $100,000 of $AMZN in 2010, it'd be worth $1.35M today (and $1.6M in September) which would go a long way toward evening things out in a similar manner.

<comment><USER120> It's true that a big part of my comp was in stock, but I only meaningfully gained from stock appreciation in 2017 and 2018. In the other years stock appreciation accounted for only $5-$15K. I sold all my stock as soon as it vested, so I sold a lot at $200, $300, $400... etc. Even in 2017, I got it at all under $1000. Now it's $1700.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER133> These salaries sound astronomical compared to earning potential in UK companies. As an Architect, average salaries are around £64,000. Does anyone know how like for like roles pay in the UK for US companies? I can't see Amazon paying £200k for a software developer?

<comment> dev-thrwy-593 That figure must be for outside London, no? Since there aren't too many UK salaries here I'll add mine for London, all in GBP:

\- 2006-2009 45-60k Employee, US investment bank, Analyst

\- 2010-2012 300/day Freelance, full stack web dev

\- 2013-2017 105k Employee, tech lead at a startup

\- 2018-2019 700/day Contractor, Senior Python Developer

<comment><USER133> It's a UK wide average. Specific industries like banking will pay a markup. Also expect a 15-20% higher pay in London due to increased living costs.

<comment> dev-thrwy-593 Banking pays poorly compared to tech roles at private equity and hedge funds. Even losing out to Silicon Roundabout and even sleepy Whitehall at the moment, though it is all fairly volatile.

I suppose trying to work at any of the smaller FAANG offices in London might be the best you can do in the UK?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER134> Well, yall can have mine.

2005: Graduated with a BA in Political Science and a fairly strong background in SQL. I've stayed in Texas my whole career.

2005: first job, web dev, $34k, govt pension

2006: salary bump to $40k

2007: new role as data analyst, $55k

2008: cola bump, $58k

2009: data warehouse lead at school district, $72k

2010: cola bump plus a raise, $78k

2011: first contracting role, equivalent of $100k

2012: lead BI architect, $125k, company pension

2013: same role, bonus, $130k

2014: same role, bonus, $130k

2015: consultant with a firm, $135k

2016 and 2017: cola bumps to $140k

2018: promotion, $152k

And I've turned down offers of $180k because I like my work life balance.

<comment><USER63> What's a promotion after BI architect? Manager?

<comment><USER134> Well I switched to consulting in 2015, but I'm now a pre sales analytics architect serving the Southwest.

So my promotion is more technical scope (BI/DW, ML/AI, IoT, Big Data, "DataOps"), more customers, more leadership, and more commercial responsibility (i.e. I have a quota.)

<comment><USER61> How can one get into this field?

<comment><USER134> I guess my pithy answer is I've never got tired of learning. Four straightforward steps that you've no doubt heard before, but I can confirm they do the trick:

Establish internal credibility. That is, the confidence to speak credibly on a given subject, be it a platform or tool, a technique, a concept, a prediction. Roll your sleeves up and get dirty coding. Even on-rails tutorials force your brain to make the connection between the concepts and the technical reality. Especially for Big Data and ML/DL workloads. Put this all on a public repo. Search GH for relevant repos, fork them, and code walk them - <USER6> Python/R/Scala scripts. Compete on Kaggle, that's obvious. Answer questions on SO, and attempt to replicate problems you find on SO yourself - this yields a lot of benefits, as most SO questions are edge cases. Join the user communities and help forums for popular platforms and read the newest entries - again, you learn the most from others actually practicing in the space. And still an extremely effective technique is to just directly search for e.g. "Spark shuffle joins" on Google and look for real people with real opinions - that you can then test yourself in an environment. When you've already read the blog post or watched the YouTube video or taken the Udacity course the guy across the table is talking about - you really establish credibility.

Teach others what you know. True trial by fire; share what you've learned. You'll learn how to overprepare, communicate and speak plainly, connect with those different than you in personality, behavior and skill, read rooms, provide feedback, take criticism, and most importantly - you'll really, really learn the ins and outs of the material.

Read voraciously. I skim-consume about 25 books a month using my company's Safari subscription; have built up a pretty good "reading recommender" system of Twitter users, subreddits, aggregators, blogs, etc; And not just technical books - books on business strategy, behavioral economics and psych, industry- specific blogs and journals - if you can't explain what you're doing in terms of risk, dollars, or time, you're doing it wrong. (Also a good life pro tip: download every interesting thing you read into a single repo and put a crawler on top of them. Even if you don't know the answer, you know you've read it somewhere and can retrieve it.)

Learn from others. Reading is great, in-person is better, mentoring is the best. Reach out to everyone in the field. Ask them (like you just did to me) what they're reading, what they did, ask follow up questions, share what you're doing with them. I find keeping a list of "questions you'd like to ask" while you're working through material (especially on industry/business) to be invaluable when you meet someone who can potentially answer them.

These days I spent probably 15-20 hours a week just reading, learning, doing, in prep for the 20-30 hours a week I spend educating, communicating, and (hopefully) selling.

One thing to add: I usually am focusing on 2 things at a time, no more, no less. If you can combine them, even better - learn Kafka for streaming and Grafana to visualize it; learn Azure SQL DW or Redshift for distributed DW and Spark for processing; etc.

My real evolution came when I realized I was happy being the dumbest person in the room, and that curiosity is a superpower.

<comment><USER61> Wow, thank you for all that. I really appreciate the advice. I appreciate the time you took into typing all that out.

I have some follow up questions if you don't mind:

>have built up a pretty good "reading recommender" system of Twitter users, subreddits, aggregators, blogs, etc;

How can I do this? I follow a bunch of influential people in tech and VC last I logged into Twitter, is this what you're talking about? One of my favorite Twitter users is @patrickc, he always has book recommendations.

Any other tips or advice to better optimize my twitter feed?

>And not just technical books - books on business strategy, behavioral economics and psych, industry-specific blogs and journals - if you can't explain what you're doing in terms of risk, dollars, or time, you're doing it wrong.

Any suggestions? Book suggestions for business strategy, behavioral economics, and psych? I'm into these books too but sometimes it's hard to see the concrete connection it might have to my day to day dealings.

>(Also a good life pro tip: download every interesting thing you read into a single repo and put a crawler on top of them. Even if you don't know the answer, you know you've read it somewhere and can retrieve it.)

Sorry, I'm not THAT technically savvy, is there a tutorial or video i can gleam to learn this? It sounds super helpful because I do have a habit of referring back to something I learned online because its in one of many bookmark folders in my browser.

>These days I spent probably 15-20 hours a week just reading, learning, doing, in prep for the 20-30 hours a week I spend educating, communicating, and (hopefully) selling.

What are you selling exactly?

>One thing to add: I usually am focusing on 2 things at a time, no more, no less. If you can combine them, even better - learn Kafka for streaming and Grafana to visualize it; learn Azure SQL DW or Redshift for distributed DW and Spark for processing; etc.

This is good advice, I think. I'm attempting it right now. By focusing on learning java and selenium. Do you ever feel FOMO about what you're not learning or reading though? Any way to combat that?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER135> Graduated UC Santa Cruz in 2007, did odd-jobs until 2012. All of the following jobs are in San Diego, CA, USA.

2008-late 2014- Odd jobs and data entry as a temp: ~$28k

Oct 2014- 1st developer job, Touch This Media: $50k, no benefits

Jan 2016- company was in trouble, $35k

July 2016- took 3 months off for a programming bootcamp, took two months after to find a job

Jan 2017- The Control Group, $75k plus benefits, 401k, paid time off. Worked as a full stack dev

Late 2017- DiegoDev $91k, remote, front end engineer

Early 2018- raise to $96k

<comment><USER61> With a degree, and dev experience, why did you decide to attend a bootcamp?

<comment><USER135> My degree was in literature, and my dev experience was very basic. The company I was at before the bootcamp used git, but did not use classes, SOLID, unit tests, some sort of CI/CD pipeline or build tools. My resume was only getting very basic experience, so I decided to speed it up a little, especially since I was starting my dev career at 28 or 29.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER136> I have a bachelors degree in Math & CS from a mid tier state university.

      2012 - 85k Big Co in NJ
      2013 - 90k Big Co in NJ
      2014 - 95k Big Co in NJ
      2015 - 65k Startuo in NJ
      2016 - 75k Startup in NJ
      2017 - 100k Big Co in NJ
      2018 - 100k Big Co in NJ
      2019 - 130k Big Co in Dallas

What i found in my experience:

      1)Interviewing is a skill in itself, do it regularly
      2)When interviewing, interview for multiple jobs so you can negotiate better
      3)There a max and a min that the company has in mind for a particular position, if they like you enough to offer you a job they will be willing to negotiate. To find out max and min, see roughly what those type of jobs offer in your area. I've found that if you are NOT working in cities in NYC, SF, Boston, then for an senior engineer (i.e 7+ years experience), the range is around 110-140. There is almost a hard cap for IC engineers in non major cities to around 150-160k.

</comment><comment><USER137> I have an associates degree in an unrelated field.

For work, I implemented and maintain part of the CI/CD pipeline (AWS Code Pipeline configuration, pretty simple), spin up and maintain AWS infrastructure, hack on the cloud formation templates and our internal build scripts, and do a portion of the helpdesk admin work for some of our large clients. Troubleshoot individual nodes. I work remotely in a small town in the US with a relatively mid-low cost of living.

I make 67k/year. I feel like my needs are met. My work/life balance is great as no one gives me any crap for sticking to a regular work day. I'm not supporting a family or anything. I'm able to contribute 15% to 401k. Otherwise, I'm not quite paycheck to paycheck, but close.

Looking at some of your salaries, I feel envious. I'm not sure my skill set demands more but maybe it does? I don't know if I should feel underpaid. I also don't want big heavy golden handcuffs.

<comment><USER138> Talk to other companies about openings and see what they offer. You don't have to take their offers, and you can have some good conversations.

</comment></comment><comment><USER139> From these data points/my experience, the only semi-repeatable way you'll make $350k+ money as salary is senior FAANG employee based in the US (comp outside the US for the same FAANG positions is usually way less), senior position in finance in a good bonus year, or contracting working your butt off for multiple clients

</comment><comment><USER140> I am a little hazy of the old figures, but they are roughly correct:

        1997 £12,500 - Visual Basic Developer - Small B2B company in South West England
        1998 £14,000 - as above
        1999 £15,000 - as above
        1999 £17,000 - as above
        2001 £14,000 (6 month contract) Visual Basic - Advertising Agency in London
        late 2001 unemployed for 6 months - dot com crash!
        2002 £21,000 Visual Basic/PHP - South England
        |
        2013 £32,000 same company, just steady salary progression
        During that period I also did some freelance Rails development. Maybe earning extra £3,000 to £8,000 each year.
        2014 £20,000 Quit full time work. Part-time Rails developer
        2015 £20,000 Part-time Rails developer
        2016 ¥6,500,000 Rails Developer - <USER9>
        2017 ¥6,565,000 Rails Developer - <USER9>
        2018 ¥6,565,000 Rails Developer - <USER9>

</comment><comment><USER141> My progression (pre-tax):

2000 - £8/h (Summer job coding)

2001 - £15/h (Summer job coding)

2002-3 - (Other job)

2004 - £160/day (Freelance)

2005-6 - £200/day (Freelance)

2007 - £275/day (Contracting, London)

2008 - £450/day (Contracting, London)

2009 - €65K (Employed, Europe)

2010-12 - £500-600/day (Freelance)

2013-14 - $100K (University, Bay Area)

2015 - $120K (University, Bay Area)

2016 - $360K (FAANG, Bay Area)

2017 - $425K (FAANG, Bay Area)

2018 - $500K (FAANG, Bay Area)

2019 - $660K (Different FAANG, Bay Area, estimated)

</comment><comment><USER142> From [https://secure.ssa.gov/mySSA/start](https://secure.ssa.gov/mySSA/start)

Total income. Never received stock/RSUs/etc. All positions were more-or-less individual contributor. Never worked in a large city.

      2000 $ 37,663 First real job (software developer)
      2001 $ 42,164
      2002 $ 42,561
      2003 $ 50,567
      2004 $ 50,001
      2005 $ 89,541
      2006 $100,541
      2007 $108,299
      2008 $114,333
      2009 $122,458 Team lead
      2010 $133,764
      2011 $135,101 Went 100% remote
      2012 $145,651
      2013 $151,963
      2014 $152,985
      2015 $156,734
      2016 $172,678 ~$50k bonus pre-tax
      2017 $176,794 ~$60k bonus pre-tax
      2018 $225,846 ~$80k bonus pre-tax

</comment><comment><USER143> Thanks for sharing. My takeaway is that I'm happy to know that east coast co's are willing to go to that $180K+ level. Would be _much_ more interested at that level on the east coast (e.g., VA) as opposed to an AirBnB level ($250K+) in SV.

<comment><USER144> Companies in NYC and Boston will go well above $200k for senior people. I'd estimate salaries in each of those markets is only ~10-15% below SVBA. Obviously they have much higher cost of living than VA or most other places. Having Google, Facebook, etc. open large offices has brought up salaries a lot.

<comment><USER61> How long to get to senior level?

<comment><USER70> it depends on what kind of growth you want and what terminal level you are able to sit at. If you want to be an IC (individual contributor), then it many positions in FAANG cap out around $300K unless you do crazy shit. Moving into technical leadership (either manager or principal) is the key to the next level.

<comment><USER61> What does it mean to be an IC?

How does one move into technical leadership?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER145> In SF Bay Area:

1999-2006 - $55k (starting) to $70kish various jobs at a startup. Began in an implementation role, moved to software engineer

2006-2008 - $80k-$95k as a QA engineer at NetSuite

2009-20012 - $95k-$105k as a SWE at NetSuite

2012 - $110k as a SWE at an early-stage startup

2013-2014 - $120k-$140k as a SWE at a different startup

2014 - $150k as a Sr SWE at a different C-stage startup

2015 - $158k as a line manager at same startup

2016 - $170k (?) as a line manager at same startup

2017 - $190k as a manager-of-managers at same startup

2018 - $205k as department head at same startup

2019 - $220k as director of engineering at different late-stage startup

All this is base salary, excluding equity and so forth. Very recently, bonuses have started to be a thing, so base salary is a little less relevant than it was.

</comment><comment><USER146> Here's my fairly unusual salary progression, since we're all sharing:

• 2011 — $80k at a startup in CA, a year out of college

• 2012 — $90k, and we got acquired by an industry big fish

• 2013 — $90k, but got laid off in the middle of the year

• 2013 through 2018 — making random software, traveling, and using up my savings; made some money, but not enough to count as "salary" in any real sense

• 2018 — $240k ($180k base) as a senior SWE at a FAANG

Given my long stretch of being a software ronin, I didn't expect to get what I got in 2018, but I did my research (mostly on Blind), asked for what I wanted, and then asked for a little more on top when I realized that I was selling myself short.

<comment><USER61> What is Blind?

Do you think your degree helped?

Is $240k a lot or a little as a senior SWE at a FAANG? Don't freshers hired out of school get offered tht much?

Any advice for others?

<comment><USER62> Blind is an anonymous messaging app where people talk about their salaries, employers, and other topics. It's somewhat toxic.

$240k seems in the range of normal for most of the FAANGs. Of course it can go much higher.

It doesn't seem like the typical new hire just out of undergrad gets that much to start.

<comment><USER146> Agreed that Blind is a crap community, but their numbers are more accurate than I've seen anywhere else (including levels.fyi).

<comment><USER61> [https://www.teamblind.com/articles/Topics](https://www.teamblind.com/articles/Topics)

this is it? any reason for the toxicity? poor moderation?

<comment><USER146> Yep. Anonymity is the focus, so people are more than happy to air their racist and sexist laundry. Lots of 4chan-style garbage. In terms of career advice, it's also very mercenary and salary-driven.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER147> This is great. It would be beneficial to also see other forms of compensation including bonus at a minimum, RSUs, etc. Sometimes a dip in salary might be explained by these other factors, so it might tell a more complete story.

</comment><comment><USER148> 2008-2010: Waiter: 6£/h

2010: Intern 4$/h

2011: Intern about 6400£ after taxes for 2 months

2013: 28k/year

2014: 40k/year

2015: 55k/year (£)

2016: Contractor with full employee benefits, remote, python, startup - $75k/year. Small bonus after the startup was bought.

2018: two remote contracts. Working 6 days a week for 12h. After taxes and all my expenses - I live very comfortable lifestyle - I was saving for retirement 10k USD a month.

Now: 81k$/year. 9-to-5, remote, python. I live in central Europe, so I save up about 40% for my retirement. Not sure how to invest money, most likely I'll start my own start up and copy something from US.

My life is really great. I wouldn't trade it for 250k+ Silicon Valley job.

<comment><USER103> > Not sure how to invest money

Low fee index funds

<comment><USER149> This. virtually all "fancy" funds do worse than the Dow jones index.

<comment><USER150> You probably mean S&P index, which is what most index funds index against.

Dave Ramsey recommends mutual funds with higher fees but that consistently beat the S&P 500. I have some money in some that I found like that, but still probably half in index funds.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER151> 18 years old: 4k$ / year (after the first year in the university, Russia)

19 years old: 7k$ / year (promotion)

20 years old: 42k€ (moved to the Netherlands, switched job)

21 years old: 50k€ (promotion)

22 years old: 70k€ (switched job, still in the Netherlands)

23 years old: 81k€ (promotion, this year)

</comment><comment><USER152> My progression:

2004, 23: $150 NZD/day (level designer, NZ)

2007, 25: $45k (web developer, SD)

2011, 29: $62k (web developer, MN)

2013, 31: $82k (software engineer, MN)

2014, 32: $92k (s. software engineer, MN)

2015, 33: $98k (s. software engineer, MN)

2016, 34: $107k (operations manager, MN)

2017, 35: $130k (devops engineer, MN)

2018, 36: $125k (devops consultant, MN)

</comment><comment><USER153> 19 - co-op while in well known lower end of 1st tier (not top 5) engr school - 16k/yr

20 - internship at big 5 consulting firm in NYC - 45k/yr (summer only)

21 - full time at same firm - 61k-ish

22-5 some small raises

26 - move to mid size well known federal gov consulting firm in DC - 76k/yr

27-28 - some raises to 86-90k

28 - smaller/mid consulting firm - <USER42>

28-33 - raises through to 175k

change to independent, and hourly rates, but will list the following as yearly; however from this point, I have to pay my own taxes, insurance, retirement, etc. still better off however, as taxes are lower compared to salary/employee, and rates are higher.

34 - <USER11>

35 - <USER12>

36 - <USER13>

37 - <USER17>

38 - <USER15>

39 - <USER16>

40 - <USER17>

Last couple years are the same rate, but working fewer hours to enjoy work- life balance.

<comment><USER154> How do you make the leap to consulting? Any special skills allowing that rate?

<comment><USER153> How did I? or how does one? ;-)

I feel I got lucky in a way. Along the way I met one small company owner that I worked with on project to bring in some of their developers onto my team. A few years later they were looking for a contractor. Right at that time another coworker bluntly told me that I was way undervalued and literally gave me an hourly rate that they felt I could easily ask for. I asked for even a little more ;-) And got it!

The work is _exactly_ the same. Again, lucky. The logistics of starting the company can be facilitated with a good tax professional/accountant. The majority of that is paperwork.

The technical skills are a combination of deep expertise in both front end and back end, which is kind of rare in government contracting, plus the big 5 consulting background, which gives you credibility, plus being honest about what you know and dont know. Believe it or not, honesty goes a long way. It's your personal brand, after all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER155> Entry ones are harder to remember, but here goes. Leaving company names out since they're mostly small and it would be obvious who I am. Numbers are mostly approximate.

      19 - ~$20/hr Doing remote web dev for my college in WV.
      21 - $60k Doing GTK/C for avionics place in Milwaukee
      22 - ~$25k Went back to school, MS in Computer Vision, worked as TA/RA
      24 - $68k C++, small science software company near Boston
      25 - $78k same company
      26 - $92k Jumped to mid stage startup (still Boston doing integration of machine learning algorithms (Python/Matlab)
      27 - $100k
      28 - $115k (promoted to Data Scientist)
      29 - $125k
      30 - $136k started leading small team of analytics developers
      31 - $145k started leading both teams of analytics developers and data scientists, also started working remotely from a midwest state.
      32 - $155k

Seeing some of these salaries for remote developers for SV companies makes me wonder if maybe that's the ticket. Do they really just not adjust based on location? My mid term goal is to be able to save up enough to give a few years runway to do whatever. It's tough to fathom moving on though because I really do like the area my current company is in.

EDIT- formatting

</comment><comment><USER156> My numbers: I have a BSc and MSc in mechanical engineering but never found a job in that field where I want/need to live, so fell back to software dev. Amounts in Canadian rupees before tax (I pay an average ~25% of my gross income as income tax)

2011 - $21k/yr grad student scholarship

2015 - $55k/yr startup that died in ~6mo

2016 - $60k/yr contract at a university

2017 - $72k/yr + pension as manager + developer at said university

2018 - $90k/yr startup, software dev morphing into architect / product lead

</comment><comment><USER157> Crazy saleries in the bay area compared to EU. How many hours do you guys work?

</comment><comment><USER158> My progression (total comp):

      India:
      2010 - $7k
      2011 - $8k
      2012 - $10k

      2013 - <USER19>
      2014 - <USER19>

      US SF Bay Area:
      2015 - $110k - Sales engg
      2016 - $125k - SWE / Devops
      2017 - $150k - Senior SWE / Devops

      Changed companies
      2017 - $200k - Senior SWE / Devops

      Changed companies
      2018 - $240k - Devops / SWE (FAANG-like)

</comment><comment><USER159> \- 2012: $60k and a Big 4 consultancy

\- 2013: $65k, first employee at a startup

\- 2014: $70k

\- 2015: $130k, SWE1 at Twitter

\- 2016: $155k, SWE2 at Twitter

\- 2017: $180k

\- 2018: $222k, Senior SWE

\- 2019: $280k

BS from a relatively unknown college. Working out of the Colorado office.

</comment><comment><USER160> My abbreviated progression (by company):

2002 - 2012: $55,770 + ~3% => $85,000 + ~3% (EE to SysE, Dallas)

2012 - 2016: $78,000 => $95,000 (Senior SWE, Dallas)

2016 - 2018: $160,000 + $20,000 => $166,000 + $26,000 (Senior SWE, NYC)

2018: $180,000 + 20% + $15,000 (Team lead, aborted after five months, NYC)

2019: $180,000 + 20% + $112,500 (Senior SWE, working towards Staff soon, NYC)

I used to have a more detailed history, but I seem to have lost it.

</comment><comment><USER161> 2014: $0 - Dropped out of school

2015: $45k - <USER20>

2016: $75k - First big boy job

2017: $90k - Second job

2017: $110k

2017: $125k

2018: $135k - Third job

2019: $155k - Fourth job

2017 was a trainwreck. All positions are generalist (mobile, full stack, devops, design, etc.) because company sizes have been tiny. Figures do not include stock or bonuses because that number is pretty much zero.

I live in a major metro area and feel massively undervalued but I don't want to sell out to BigCo

</comment><comment><USER53> A spreadsheet was created last year with french salaries of startups, it's pretty informative.

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zjvz- Ud2TR3rco2BTq0X...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zjvz- Ud2TR3rco2BTq0X0Ovr29ohASCRiAATwmAX5YY/edit#gid=1145296357)

</comment><comment><USER162> Here's another take. CS degree from a top university, spent my entire childhood doing Linux and Windows stuff. I only started taking my career seriously over the past 7 years or so. I'm in the Bay Area.

2012-2015: $100k, sysadmin 2015-2017: $100-150k, random projects 2017-2019: $150k, devops 2019: $200k, devops manager

I've only started to develop some level of self discipline in the past few years. Before then, I wasn't even working 40 hours a week. I'd have some brief bursts of productivity where I'd automate something or crank out a project really quickly, but most of the time I was messing around with new technologies.

Given what I'm seeing here, I think I'm going to start looking at working for a FAANG. It's always been my intention to retire early, and I could probably operate at burnout levels of productivity for a few years in exchange for being able to finish funding that plan.

</comment><comment><USER163> This is such an odd survey, especially when framed as "White people especially need to talk about their salaries because marginalized folks in the same fields often have no idea they're being swindled by employers."

How knowledge of me making $X helps anyone? If you think that you're underpaid, the only thing that will make difference is a competing offer. Reducing experience, amount of work, kind of work and value to the organization, to just 2 variables - race and number - won't make any difference.

Instead:

1\. Know your local job market. 2\. Make sure you're working on right things. 3\. Be a team player. 4\. Make your bosses happy (usually that goes hand-in- hand with working on right things and being a team player).

I made good last year, but it's because I happened to be at the right time in the right place, and put a lot of hours of work. Would putting a number and my race on that give you any insight into that?

<comment><USER164> > Would putting a number and my race on that give you any insight into that?

I believe your analysis is unfairly reductionist and doesn't really capture the spirit of the tweet. If I was asking you for advice about salary, I'd definitely be interested in everything you mentioned, what your skills are, how you got to your current position etc. The issue is that marginalized groups often find it hard to advocate for themselves because of issues of perception and also they lack the knowledge required to properly negotiate. It's hard to know what numbers to throw out when you don't even have a range or you don't know what the social protocols / customs are regarding negotiation.

The point of sharing isn't to trivialize your hard work but it's to help people who are just as qualified and talented as you not fall through the cracks.

<comment><USER163> Software development is a huge professional field, with people doing all sorts of things, in all kinds of companies. A bunch of numbers pulled off of the international forum (HN) with such variability in job descriptions and levels, is just that - a bunch of numbers.

I want to be helpful, but simply throwing the number around is not it.

<comment><USER163> FWIW, the most useful link from the original discussion on Twitter: [https://twitter.com/KeirstenBrager/status/109436626260242022...](https://twitter.com/KeirstenBrager/status/1094366262602420226)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER165> 2004-2008 > 45k - Tech consulting fixing spyware etc

2008-2010 > 80k - SEO / Bartending weekends 50/50 split

2010-2012 > 55k - Building servers for DC's

2012-2013 > 60k - Helpdesk Support - Law firm

2013-2015 > 65k - Cisco VoIP tech - <USER21>

2015-2018 > 70k - Electronic Trading Support - <USER22>

2018-Now > 110k - Same as above - Different country same company

</comment><comment><USER166> Software engineer

      Year) Salary - Bonus - <USER23>
       1)  50k - 10%  - Company 1 - small private tech consulting firm (NYC)
       2)  60k - 10%  - Company 1 (NoVa)
       3)  70k - 15%  - Company 1
       4)  80k - 15%  - Company 1
       5)  90k - 15%  - Company 1
       6) 100k - 15%  - Company 1
       7) 105k - 15%  - Company 1
       8) 135k - 15%  - Company 2 - series C startup, sales software (SF)
       9)  25k -  0%  - Company 3 - seed round, business tools, co-founder (SF)
      10)  60k -  0%  - Company 3
      11) 160k - 10%* - Company 4 - series A startup, transportation, acquired a year before (peninsula)
      12) 180k - 15%* - Company 4
      13) 220k - 25%  - Company 5 - series D startup, fintech, acquired a year before (peninsula)

*Actual bonus payout was about a quarter of it

<comment><USER78> After reading all of the other posts here I'm shocked you're not making 2M at line 13. I don't know if there's a bias for the ultra-high earners to post their income here, albeit anonymously, skewing the perception of what's normal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER167> I'm a bit late to the party but I can't help but feel overwhelmed by the huge salaries everyone is making. Congrats to everyone!

2006 - 2014: €16k

2014 - 2017: €21k

2017 - now : €40k

These are gross salaries. I work in Portugal (36yo). I did web development up until 2016 in agencies/consultancies. Now I'm working for a startup.

</comment><comment><USER168> I made a decision somewhere in my career after working at some big and small companies is that I really like the small company vibe, you get involved with many aspects of the business and have a lot more freedom to set technical direction. I also noticed a weird effect in a number of bigger businesses where money wasn't as much as a problem and as a result people tended to innovate less.

But I always feel, given my broad old school / new school skillset built up over decades, I could do better elsewhere moneywise.

Theoretically it would be better for me to start my own business, but where I am I get to concentrate on product creation and solving a broad range of technical problems which is super fun!

</comment><comment><USER169> It would be interesting to see something similar from someone that worked in SV for 10+ years.

<comment><USER170> Grew up in Silicon Valley:

1998-2002 High school, Barista, Subways, $7/hr 2003-2007 USMC, $25k/yr 2007-2008 Apple, knowledge manager, $50k/yr 2008-2009 Gawker, BusinessInsider, writer, $30k/yr 2010-2011 SF startup, marketer, $55k/yr 2012-2013 Google, HR admin, $60k/yr 2013-2015 Berkeley startup, tech lead, $80k/yr 2015-2017 Started own consultanty agency, $50k/yr 2018-2019 Digital agency, PM, $100k/yr

<comment><USER61> you've had a wide variety of positions. how did you manage all that? did you educate yourself before interviewing at companies or was the purpose to have a wide breadth of knowledge so you purposefully sought out a variety of positions?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER171> Here's my antidote to the astronomical salaries posted here:

2012-2014: 25k USD graduated, teach English in Japan

2014: 30k Join startup. Fails.

2015-2017: 25k Back to teaching

2018: 40k try my hand at IT again. Fail.

2019: 30k teaching once again.

If you're worried about your 70k tech salary realise things could be a helluvalot worse.

</comment><comment><USER172>
      Age  Salary  Job  Title
      ---  </comment><comment>  ---  -----
      16   ~$10k   1    Software Developer (MI)
      17   ~$10k
      18   ~$10k
      19   ~$10k   2    Research Assistant (MI)
      20   ~$15k   3    Software Engineer Intern (MI)
      21    $35k        Software Engineer
      22    $35k
      23    $45k
      24    $70k   4    Software Engineer (MI)
      25   $130k   5    Senior Software Engineer (Seattle, WA)
      26   $160k        Principal Software Engineer
      27   $165k

The ones beginning with "~" were part time jobs that paid hourly. None of the jobs offered bonuses or stock.

<comment><USER173> I appreciate you took the time to right-align the salary numbers!

</comment></comment><comment><USER174> I've traded $ for time twice so far, and overall I'm okay with that.

      1999 23k first full-time job, hourly, Maryland
      2000 25k
      2001 28k
      2002 30k
      2003 34k
      2004 36k
      2005 39k promoted to salaried position
      2006 76k moved to Silicon Valley as SWE, Mountain View
      2007 88k
      2008 106k company bought
      2009 158k residual stock
      2010 153k new gig in RWC
      2011 133k
      2012 149k new gig in Mountain View
      2013 146k
      2014 137k
      2015 168k company bought, new gig in SF
      2016 181k
      2017 165k new gig in Santa Clara
      2018 161k

</comment><comment><USER175> Here's mine. I graduated school in 2013 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering, but at the time of graduation I already knew I wanted to actually work in software.

Year - Age - Total Income - <USER24>

2014 - 23 - 36k - Test Technician in Santa Barbara, CA

2015 - 24 - 40k - Test Technician in Santa Barbara, CA

2016 - 25 - 46k - Finally made the switch to software, worked for a couple different startups in Portland, OR.

2017 - 26 - 38k - Full-stack Developer for couple more startups while I honed my skills

2018 - 27 - 87k - Landed a contract with a large apparel company

2019 - 28 - 111k - Converted to full-time with large apparel company. Senior Software Engineer.

</comment><comment><USER176> Point of contrast:

I'm Chris from Airwindows. I develop audio software and in recent years, give all of it away for free and as MIT-licensed open source. I've recently been cited by name in the New York Times in an op-ed about a subject I pioneered. I've recently worked out a method for dithering to floating point mantissas and released the code under Unlicense (public domain) after refining and improving the code in public discussion with Alexey Lukin of iZotope. This is the (very much a game of diminishing returns, mind you) cutting edge of digital audio R&D and I got the last word: mind you, I had to, because I release open source and Lukin's suggestions though brief were not being accompanied by licensing, making verbatim use of his code legally problematic. Because of what I do for a living and the knock-on effect of people reusing my code in the expectation that they can do that safely, I'm compelled to take that very seriously.

I make $15,204 a year.

I think there is no correlation between capital and any kind of merit, value, or even basic function. At this point, nothing you do no matter how useful or significant will change your financial position so it becomes an entirely separate issue from 'what work can you do' or 'what do you love'. I expect to die, not soon thank goodness, from issues related to poverty.

Until that time, I get to be Chris from Airwindows, and I'll be able to continue to do these things I care about. On the other hand, if I hadn't scratched my way up to $15,204 by now I never would, and I'd be trying to do the same work (as I'd have many of the same thoughts and ideas) out of a shopping cart and dying much sooner still.

The really interesting thing is how most of my Patreon (that's the mechanism, while it lasts: then I die) is composed of people in roughly my wealth position. It appears there is a class interest: if you as a very wealthy open source advocate can use my code (as the 'idea making' class) you'll do so happily, but as soon as you learn I make $15,204 a year, this becomes a compelling argument for not sending any of your wealth out of your class into a lower, less worthy class that should not have wealth. That's how it works out in practice. I think the mental model there is, if my financial position had merit, it would have far more money, therefore giving it more money would only lead to things like me making physical stuff and giving it away (or distributing it at cost to other poor people) thus wasting it or actively sabotaging the wealthier class by giving resources to a poor class.

And this would indeed be what I would do :D

And so these discussions must be viewed in terms of class interests, sometimes quite consciously expressed.

(note: Vermont resident, not a metro area)

</comment><comment><USER177> It's interesting that in U.S and probably in other countries people talk about their annual salaries. Where I live we talk about our monthly salaries after all taxes have been deducted. So when I look at his last number $189,000, how can I convert it to actual monthly income(or are Americans payed/paid two times a month?). Probably I have to deduct income tax and health insurance, right? And there is also this 401k. Or are there any other hidden taxes that workers in U.S. have to take into consideration?

</comment><comment><USER178> I'll post mine because I know there are other juniours reading this who feel like shit when they read how much other people are making. All cash denominated in CAD. I have no degree for what it is worth.

\- 2017: Internship, $3k /month

\- 2018: Sysadmin, 70k/year

\- 2019: Raise, but no promotion, 82.5k/year

I tried to interview in January for some software dev positions, but failed on the coding portion of the interviews. I'm studying hard to learn to program and hopefully by the end of the year I'll be able to interview for some $100k jobs.

</comment><comment><USER179> In Orlando, Florida except for my first job. All values are essentially total compensation since any stock I have gotten from any of these companies has had zero value.

2007 - $42k Junior Game Designer in Australia

2008-2012 - $45k-$55k (QA Programming Lead)

2012 - $70k Software Engineer at a new company

2013 - $80k Software Engineer raise at same company

2014 - $90k Promoted to Software Development Manager at same company

2015 - $95k Software Engineer at a new company

2015 part 2 - $140k via freelancing

2016 - $70k First employee at startup I helped start

2017-2018 - $80k Raise at startup

2019 - $155k Remote for engineering team that used to be based in Boston.

</comment><comment><USER180> Wow y'all have some crazy high numbers.

Memphis TN (on the low end of the US cost-of-living scale), all at the same place.

Early 2007 (right out of college): ~$48k (hourly equiv., contractor)

Late 2007: $51k (salary, "real colleague")

...(no notes... IIRC there were like 2 promotions in there, a couple percent standard raise the other years)...

2013: $81k

...

2017: $96k (promotion / transfer)

I also _started_ with 4 weeks PTO (up to a hair over 6 now), which I hear is a fair bit higher than usual. OTOH it's a privately held company, which means there's no such thing as stock options.

</comment><comment><USER181> East coast but not big city:

2018: $49k (first SE job) 2019: $52k (first raise!)

<comment><USER182> Aside from the year, that is so similar to my first SE job:

East coast but not big city: 1999 $48k, 2000 $52k

I suppose inflation has been mild. Showing up in the height of the Y2K/web frenzy sure helped. I got myself a nice embedded RTOS kernel developer job before even finishing my degree. Meanwhile, everybody else was running off to invent web development or repair COBOL.

People graduating just a couple years later slammed into a dead market.

<comment><USER183> > I suppose inflation has been mild.

True, but 20 years is 20 years. 50k in 1999 corresponds to 75k in 2019.

[http://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1999?amount=50000](http://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1999?amount=50000)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER184> I thought I knew that some people make up to 250k, but some posts here are jaw-dropping.

Just to share my part, all in (South)West Germany and in EUR as software dev:

2014: 28k

2017: 33k (raise)

2017: 40k (new job)

2018: 46k (raise)

</comment><comment><USER185> IT Security, Established company, East Coast, remote 80%, $ in USD.

2011 - Graduated B.S. Info Assurance, 55k, Security engineer

2012 - New company, 65K + 5k bonus, SOC analyst

2013 - Same company, 75k +10k bonus, SOC lead

2014 - Same company, 100k + 10k bonus, same position (sabbatical for 1 yr)

2015 - Same company, 125k + 12k bonus, SOC manager

2016 - Same company, 135k +12k bonus, same position

2017 - Same company, 145k +15k bonus, same position

2018 - Same company, 172k +20k bonus, promoted

</comment><comment><USER186> 2011-2012 Epic in Madison, WI 60k

2012-13 unemployed

2013-15 grad school position ~1200/mo 20hr a week python developer

15-16 unemployed

2016-2018 29k GBP in London, python dev

First half of 2018 65k usd in DC

Second half unemployed

2019 50k IT staff

I'M SUCH A FUCKUP

<comment><USER58> You've managed to live in different cities for work, e.g. Madison, London, DC! That means you've gained invaluable life experience. I'm pretty jealous of that TBH.

</comment></comment><comment><USER187> Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area

2012 - $55k software engineer out of college at a Series B startup

San Francisco Bay Area

2013 - $95k software engineer at same Series B startup

2014 - $120k software software engineer at new Series C startup

2015 - $130k full stack engineer at new Series B startup

2016 - Minor CoLA increase

2017 - Minor CoLA increase

2018 - $140k lead frontend engineer at angel, friends and family round startup

2019 - $150k pay increase at same startup after raising seed round

Edit for formatting.

</comment><comment><USER188> "The winner is the one who gives the most away." \-- Larry Wall

Perl bookends the career of the author of this article, so respect pls

</comment><comment><USER189> I never understand why we look at salary only.

My experience in tech companies in Bay Area. The stock is a huge part of the income, and, as we move up the ladder, the income is skewed toward stock heavily.

Then, we misleadingly report only salary like this director of Facebook makes $300K a year. No, they probably make like 10 millions a year with stock.

<comment><USER190> At least in the non SV tech companies, stock and bonuses don't matter as much. In large companies that is different, of course; but most developers don't work for large tech companies.

</comment></comment><comment><USER191> To the author: were any of these cleared positions? Typically those command a premium and require some sacrifice as it applies to personal lifestyle choices. CACI often requires clearances for government clients, for example which is why you might see a drop when moving to Motley Fool (a commercial customer)

<comment><USER182> It's only a sacrifice if you'd actually want to do things that would raise concern.

On the other hand, it is a huge benefit if you'd rather not be surrounded by people with those kinds of concerns. It's nice to know that none of your coworkers are likely to steal your stuff, commit acts of violence upon you, spill fentanyl on your desk, embezzle the company's assets, offer you food items with unmentioned unconventional ingredients, or do anything other than be calm and level-headed.

<comment><USER192> Those are pretty extreme. For me and probably 90% of other devs who don't want to get a security clearance, it's because of prior drug use. I don't even do anything like that other than smoke weed these days (which I would easily quit if I needed to for a job, though I still think that's very outdated BS) but the government seems really scared about people who've even previously used drugs.

No, I'm not going to spill fentanyl, weed, or any other drug on your desk and I'm also not going to lie during the clearance process to say that I've smoked weed less than 50 times in my life - but apparently that means I can't get a clearance.

<comment><USER153> it's not the drug use that is the problem. a lot of the time it is about honesty. If you try to hide anything on clearance paperwork, and they find it (they always find stuff), that's immediate disqualification.

there are people with all kinds of backgrounds, and some with drug use in their background, with active clearances. it's not automatic any more. just be 100% honest.

the adjudicator needs to make a determination of whether they think you could be compromised in some way. just because someone smoked weed in college or got a DUI once doesn't mean they can be compromised.

<comment><USER191> Meta, but I wanted to say congrats on your throwaway name. Nicely chosen.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER193> South Florida (Fort Lauderdale)

2013 - $45k - test engineer

2014 - $50k - <USER26>

2014 - $82k - new company, switched to software engineering

2015 - $89k - raise + adjustment for finishing masters degree

2016 - $94k - raise + promotion

2017 - $98k - <USER26>

2018 - $105k + $15k RSU - raise + company wide adjustment, also first time given RSU bonus

I'm fairly happy with my progression, plan to stay at the current company for the forseeable future.

</comment><comment><USER194> In Poland, we have a great online forum with a dedicated topic for salaries.

[https://4programmers.net/Forum/Kariera/233131-ile_zarabiacie](https://4programmers.net/Forum/Kariera/233131-ile_zarabiacie)

Do you know similar places for the global market?

</comment><comment><USER195> My progression is probably more on the unusual side. Not amazing compared to folks with 1m+, but I feel I did the best so far with the cards given to me.

2006 - $6k - system administrator

2008 - $14k - <USER28>

2009 - $18k - <USER28>

2010 - $32k - swe1, enterprise

2012 - $48k - swe2, same place

2015 - $135k - swe2, relocation

2017 - $150k - <USER29>

2018 - $200k - swe4 (bigger enterprise)

</comment><comment><USER196> Sharing my numbers (all numbers include bonus and liquid stock). I graduated with a degree in computer science. All are in the bay area, all are Android development.

2016 - $110k + $10k sign on = $120k @ BigCo

2017 - $125k @ Startup

2018 - $155k @ Same Startup

2019 - $225k + $50k sign on = $275k @ BigCo

</comment><comment><USER197> As someone working in Japan paid around or below most of your junior salaries.. oof.

<comment><USER198> Same goes for the UK if you're not in London.

I'm not in London. :/

</comment></comment><comment><USER199> Full disclosure: Im in college right now.

2015: $1.43 per hour (camp counselor) 2016: $12 per hour (Data strategy Intern, NY) 2017: $23.25 per hour (SWE Intern, OR) 2018: $48.75 per hour (SWE Intern, SF) 2019: ~$160K per year (SWE NY)

<comment><USER153> congrats! you are on a great track. after doing this so many years, the higher you start out, the higher it goes later

</comment></comment><comment><USER200> SWE, based out of Southern Ontario, postgraduate degree, Asian male immigrant, all in CAD

2014 $72K junior, a startup in Kitchener

2016 $75K mid-level, same startup

2017 $100K mid to senior level, a startup in Toronto

2018 $108K senior, same startup

2019 $145K senior, another startup in Toronto

</comment><comment><USER201> 2016 - Graduated college with CS degree, startup job @ 75k, 1%

2017 - startup shit out, went to 1 company, 85k a year, left that company (really bad situation), second company 100k a year

2018, 115k (same company promoted me)

2019, 150k switched to a FAANG

</comment><comment><USER202> My progression

Year 1: 230(130+ 40 signing + 40 stock + 20 annual bonus)

Year 2: 265(135 + 50 signing + 50 stock + 30 annual bonus)

switched companies between year 1 and 2. expect total comp to go down next year but do expect refreshers

</comment><comment><USER203> Europe edition here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19398192](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19398192)

</comment><comment><USER204> Throwaway but thought I wanted to share:

BS in UX-related & MBA

2003 BS

2007 65k* (UX @ public)

2008 80k* (UX @ public)

2010 MBA

2012 110k* (Product @ seed startup)

2012 80k* (Product in competitive industry @ funded startup)

2013 0* (Startup @ self)

2015 105k* (Product @ funded startup)

2016 115k (Promotion @ funded startup)

2017 135k* (Solution Architect/remote @ public)

2018 138k

*New job

</comment><comment><USER205> Damn! Right now, I'm making $24k as a Full Stack Developer (remote) for a US company with 10yrs. of experience. Now I believe that I'm way underpaid.

</comment><comment><USER206> 2016 3000 usd per annum as an it dude. 2017 3500 usd per annum as an it dude. 2018 3500 usd per annum as an it dude. 2019 4000 usd per annum as an it dude.

</comment><comment><USER207> Throwing myself in the pool here.

My salary progression in SF while working at small/medium-sized startups.

No college degree.

All base.

In my early 20s, 2014 - 105k, SWE

2015 - 110k, SWE

2016 - 115k, SWE

Now my mid 20s, 2017 - 130k, Senior SWE

2018 - 135k, Senior SWE

2019 - 145k, Senior SWE

</comment><comment><USER208> Late 2017 - $120k - Amazon Canada 2019 - $200k - Google Canada

If I decided to go to US, I'd make a lot more money in both cases.

</comment><comment><USER209> 24 years as a dev (estimated - can't remember all these ...)

Mostly SFBayArea...

1995 - 30k (startup)

1996 - <USER30>

1997 - <USER31>

1998 - 100k (consulting)

1999 - <USER32>

2000 - <USER44>

2001 - 80k (dotcom crash)

2002 - <USER34>

2003 - 120k (bank)

2004 - <USER42>

2005 - 90k (startup)

2006 - <USER42>

2007 - <USER39>

2008 - <USER42>

2009 - <USER39>

2010 - <USER44>

2011 - <USER41>

2012 - 150k (contracting)

2013 - <USER42>

2014 - 1M (startup sold)

2015 - 60k (startup)

2016 - <USER43>

2017 - <USER44>

2018 - 500k Eng mgr

2019 - 600k expected

<comment><USER210> Working as an eng manager where?

</comment></comment><comment><USER211> pre grad here: 2015:13/hr general purpose it intern (wpf & sql dev, help desk) 2016:15/hr sysadmin intern (wrote bash scripts all day) 2017:15/hr college help desk 2018:25/hr intern (Python, Angular)

</comment><comment><USER212> My salary progression in Paris:

\- 2009: 35K - software engineer

\- 2010: 37K - software engineer

\- 2011: 39K - software engineer

\- 2012: 41K - software engineer

\- 2013: 47K - software engineer

\- 2014: 50K - software engineer

\- 2015: 55K - software engineer

\- 2016/2017: 35K - unemployment system salary, while I was an entrepreneur

\- 2018: 65K - senior software engineer

\- 2019: ? (I'm now a manager)

\-----

Some thoughts:

\- my salary is very low compared to some mentioned in this thread, and yet I don't have the impression to be underpaid, in comparison to other engineers in Paris, and of course, in comparison to other French people. I'm the best paid among my Parisian friends (and probably among all those who where within my school class in high school, when I lived in a small French city, where 2000€/month is already great) Of course, I could do a lot more but before this year I wasn't a manager. To earn more as a software engineer without leadership responsibilities, you have to be part of the bests. Not my case I think.

\- I feel it's very hard to exceed 90/100K. I know a few VP at 120K/130K but it's an elite. It's even hard for them to find a job position.

\- retrospectively, the tech job market in Paris was very depressing before 2011. No start-ups (so no equity), very few tech companies, low salaries. I've been hired at a low 35K, as almost all the fellows from my engineering school. Today, an engineer in Paris started at 40 and is at 50 in two years.

\- sometimes, I regret that all my "VIE" contracts (a program that allows french people to go work in French companies abroad) collapsed in the month of January 2009, just after the beginning of the financial crisis... But it would have been to work for the Societe Generale in New-York or for Safran in Houston, not for Google or Facebook. And I wouldn't have met my wife, so really no regrets.

\- I also admit that in my first years in Paris, I was almost more in bars and movie theaters than in an office. Maybe it'd have been different if there was already a startup scene at this time.

\- the start-up when I worked today tried often to hire foreign engineers. Everyone is generally very excited to come work in Paris, but has difficulties to get past the salary barrier. In these moments, I have to be the best advocate for the French health and unemployment system, which is great but, let's be honest, doesn't replace the crazy salaries I see on this thread. I like our system mostly because it helps my grand-mothers to live in a decent way, but if I was alone here, without a sense of solidarity, and without the desire to make my life here, I'd think it's a waste.

\- in 2016-2017, I was an entrepreneur. It's been tough and it's been a failure (not a big failure, but still a failure). But thanks to the unemployment system, I was paid around 35K/year.

</comment><comment><USER213> Wow, from IT Admin to VP of Software in 8 years is very impressive.

<comment><USER190> It was a startup; so being VP of Software didn't feel that impressive, but thank you. I built the mobile app, firmware, the deployment pipeline for the site, etc. Since [Jewelbots was open source]([https://github.com/jewelbots](https://github.com/jewelbots)), everything we did was on Github. Although if you want to see the firmware, you have to dive in deeper on the Arduino side to see it (Jewelbots firmware repo itself is not in the open; though I have no special insight as to why that is).

</comment></comment><comment><USER214> Senior Engineer (EE) in SV: 130,000 base, 25K RSU

</comment><comment><USER215> I'd have liked to read this but the giant popup ad literally covered the entire screen of my phone. Guess you still get my click for monetization...

</comment><comment><USER216> 2017: 0$ 2018: 0$

</comment><comment><USER217> total comp, C++, white, male:

2018 $197,000 boston

2017 $155,000 boston

2016 $140,000 boston

2015 $64,000 my startup

2014 $137,000 nyc

2013 $117,000 nyc

2012 $99,000 nyc

</comment><comment><USER218> 34K.

45K.

74k.

116k.

</comment><comment><USER219> "Privilege is a large part of the equation; the privilege to not care; the privilege to be a white dude in an industry that (either intentionally or unintentionally) caters to white dudes. Yes, this reflects playing the game on easy mode. I have no doubts there. I'm writing that it's not enough because I am too privileged to be able to see what non-white dudes should do. So if you're a white dude reading this, make it better for everyone by not being cheap on compensation (and recognize any potential bias or privilege you may have)."

\- what a cringy statement. an industry that caters to white dudes. literaly the CEO of the biggest software company name on earth is an indian. the CEO of one of the top chipmakers on earth is an asian woman and a big chunk of engineers are from china and india but ok whatever. what does the end of the statement means? if you are not white you can be cheap on compensation?

</comment><comment><USER220> This is very American centric. Whites in Europe are lucky to earn half that on architect positions (please don't come up with "standard of living" and "social services and benefits").

<comment><USER221> Don't forget that this is before taxes, retirement savings, healthcare and other deductions.

You can't just hand-wave away "standard of living" and "social services and benefits".

These may be things you take for granted but a large majority of the population has to have a large emergency refund in case they get severed from their company without any notice for any reason (Compare that with job security in France or Germany).

Consider you need to save a ton of money yourself in government sponsored accounts such as HSA or FSAs for future healthcare expenses that you can't possibly estimate when you're 20 years old. (Compare that with the NHS in England).

Consider you need to sock away a ton of money in 401ks and IRAs so that when you're 50 with no job prospects, you don't end up on the street and can actually have a decent retirement. Nobody is paying serious pensions and hardly anyone can survive on social security. (Compare that with the savings pillars in Switzerland).

Now considering all this, you still think his salary is HUGE compared to a Western European one? I highly doubt it, I have already run the numbers myself.

<comment><USER222> The biggest thing I missed when working in the US was 5-6 weeks annual paid leave. 10 days off/year means people are highly incentivised to apply to/present at conferences tho

<comment><USER84> Was that normal? I'm used to 10 company holidays plus 3-4 weeks of paid vacation.

<comment><USER222> It's the standard, some big companies offer a bit more

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER223> Worked for 5 years at big tech.

Never made it above 180.

sigh.

</comment><comment><USER224> Just blacklisted your site at the corporate firewall ... your pop-up ads are not omay for our 200k users.</comment>