The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/01/living-with-ocd-survival-poison-contaminated-food <comment><USER2> I'm appreciative of somebody who also has OCD writing an article like this detailing how the disorder isn't at all like the stereotype of a neat freak. What's funny is, I myself am actually a terribly messy person with books and papers always strewn about (among clothes not quite in the hamper, &c).

What's interesting to me from a personal history viewpoint is that one of my earliest compulsions also centered around door knobs. However, in my case I had to cover the whole surface area of the knob (hah!) with my hand and yank it shut multiple times (the exact number was arbitrary; merely whatever "felt" right) until I was sufficiently satisfied that the damn door was indeed closed. I still do this when leaving my apartment.

Hell, reading this article and writing this comment has "caused" (ie, compelled me to) do some of my own compulsions multiple times already because _just thinking about doing them_ means I need to. Once I get into my head that I "have" to do X, Y, or Z then it's much harder to ignore than if the trigger (or what have you) came up in everyday life. I hope you HNers learned something so me sitting here in my underpants counting powers of 2 and repeatedly moving my head back and forth like a confused pigeon wasn't totally for naught! :)

EDIT: For those more curious about this topic (all dozen of you) I wrote a short piece on my blog attempting to better illustrate the painful bizarrity of OCD through the vehicle of a fictional dialectic: [https://salt.mattwie.se/essays/all- mad.html](https://salt.mattwie.se/essays/all-mad.html)

<comment><USER3> Would it help if you had a webcam pointed at the door so you could remotely verify it's closed and locked? Or do you need some the actual feeling of the door being closed to end the fixation?

<comment><USER4> Really want to see an answer on this

<comment><USER5> I expect it would just move the goal posts, and you would end up staring at the screen to confirm the door is closed or checking the camera to ensure it is pointed at the correct door or some similar way of getting the 'hit' that the door checking gives you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm one of the "chronic checker" types. I used to be really bad about checking and rechecking door locks, particularly, but also the fridge and the garage. If I check absentmindedly and without intention, I'll have to do it all over again.

What really helped me get out the door in the morning, and still does, is actually to video myself doing it. When I got a Palm Zire 72, for the first time I could actually leave within a normal interval because I had a continuous, raw, time stamped record of everything I did from checking everything was off and secure to leaving the apartment and driving away. I refused to ditch the Zire until the iPhone 3GS because the 2G and 3G only did stills. To this day I still do it with my Pixel when I'm flying solo.

Which brings me to the other thing that helped: my very patient wife, who reminds me she saw me do it, you did it right, and get your butt in the car, darling.

The damnable thing about OCD is that a _little_ is very valuable in my regular line of work (medicine). Without it I wouldn't be as careful, I don't think. It means it won't let me take shortcuts and it forces me to be thorough, and that's a very _good_ thing in that business.

<comment><USER7> > The damnable thing about OCD is that a little is very valuable in my regular > line of work (medicine). Without it I wouldn't be as careful, I don't think. > It means it won't let me take shortcuts and it forces me to be thorough, and > that's a very good thing in that business.

That's a really interesting take on the positive aspects of OCD and one that's not often discussed. Thanks for sharing. :)

<comment><USER8> There are a few famous athletes who've said similar things. Ray Allen was an NBA player known for having a beautiful, textbook-perfect jump shot and eventually setting the NBA record for three-pointers. He credits a good portion of this to his own OCD, which compelled him to repeatedly drill the motion beyond reason.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Long time sufferer here.

There is still a _HUGE_ taboo around OCD and mental health in general. A lot of people still think it's all make believe.

In the last couple of months I've starting receiving professional help for a number of themes around OCD that have been traumatising me for most of my life. It's certainly helping, but also very comforting to hear from a professional the kind of issues his/her other clients might be facing.

Don't suffer in silence or try to fix it all by yourself. No matter how bizarre, how dark or how ashamed you are of your OCD you should know you're not alone. A professional therapist has probably heard it, or something very close to it, many many times before.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER10> Mine is earthquakes and tsunamis. I live in Oregon, where we are due for a big one "some day", and I grew up on the Oregon coast, where there historically have been major inundations in some areas.

Every time I drive 101 on the coast, I'm constantly scanning and planning what driveway or what side road I'd go up to get away from a tsunami. "I could turn around and go back to that one road - oh wait here's a new one. OK that one."

If I'm driving across the Willamette Valley and I'm on the other side of the Willamette River from my home, I'm thinking, "OK if I make it across this bridge and then there's an earthquake, I can make it home. But if not then it might collapse and I'll have to figure out how to get across."

Ironically, I actually didn't develop this until I spent about 5 years working for seismologists, so I suppose it's kind of a rational, scientifically driven irrational behavior.

<comment><USER11> Do you commute a long way? Is it possible that it's just your mind keeping busy/creative while you commute? I find my mind playing out similar doomsday scenarios and solutions when I'm doing something repetitive for longer periods of time.

<comment><USER10> It's about a 10 minute drive to work, 15 on my bicycle :)

This is more when on the coast for vacation or when traveling between cities in the valley like on weekends.

That said I know what you mean - I do that when I'm biking with traffic, thinking about what people MIGHT do to cut me off, etc. as opposed to what's actually happening.

<comment><USER12> > thinking about what people MIGHT do to cut me off

That's probably very useful. Keeps you out of trouble.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I was like ten years old when I had to even out things if I stepped on a crack in the pavement. If I brushed by something on one side I had to even it out. If I bumped into something, I'd have to go back and bump the other side evenly.

One day I saw a TV show or a movie where someone was like that and people treated them like they were retarded. So I tried really hard to stop it. Over the next few years, I just got rid of the compulsion. I guess it was weak enough.

Just lucky, I suppose. I still have one terrible one but it doesn't let me talk about it or bad things will happen.

<comment><USER14> I used to have little compulsions like this as a kid, and I know some others who did. Perhaps it's not uncommon? Probably rather different to full-blown adult OCD though

</comment></comment><comment> gator-io I have had a close family member experience and recover from severe OCD. This was at UCLA's child and adolescent OCD program (which was amazing). Let me share what worked:

1) The program first prescribed SSRIs in order to reduce the child's anxiety enough to do the difficult work required.

2) Intense ERP (exposure response prevention) solo and in a group setting. The social aspect of being with fellow sufferers was critical.

3) Coming up with rewards for successful ERP sessions (not food related due to potential overeating)

4) Starting treatment as soon as possible. OCD has a tendency to get worse and harder to treat over time. I clearly saw the difference in treatment efficacy based on how long it took for the child to start treatment.

The link to the program is [https://iocdf.org/clinics/ucla-child-adolescent- ocd-intensiv...](https://iocdf.org/clinics/ucla-child-adolescent-ocd- intensive-outpatient-treatment-program/)

</comment><comment><USER15> I've been dealing with OCD for about 2 decades now (I was around the same age as the author when I got these compulsions).

A lot of it centers around health and death, it goes hand in hand with hypochondria and thanatophobia (fear of dying). It's related to my stress for sure, and I often get panic attacks because I can't let go of the thoughts of having become ill or dying.

It does affect my daily life, I have 'repetitive thoughts' almost the whole day. Not per se bad thoughts, sometimes just worrying about my eyes hurting from wearing lenses - I keep thinking that until it starts hurting.

I have some kind of 'pattern' when it comes to thinking and if I move outside of it, I start repeating myself. One of these is that, as a bilingual person, when I mix up languages in my thoughts that is 'wrong' somehow and I need to start the 'train of thought' again.

Sometimes - the moments I am most stressed - I end up in a cycle of causing more OCD moments by having stress, which causes OCD, ..

At times it just depresses me that my thoughts aren't "normal", I know it's not rational to keep repeating things to oneself, but if I don't do it I have a nagging feeling that just pushes me to do it.

I also think that OCD is not something only the person who has it suffers from, it surely does take a toll on the people around you at times - especially when it makes you seem stressed out all the time and like you're on "edge". At least from my experience.

</comment><comment><USER16> I have OCD, although it's not crippling.

My triggers tend to flare up most at night before I go to bed, or in the morning when I leave for work. Did I checked the hob is off, is the fridge closed, did I lock the door? Did I close the windows? What if I left the iron on and it falls over and starts a fire the house burns down with me inside it?

It's amazing how the mind can "catastrophize" mundane situations.

I live alone which probably makes it worse, but it doesn't affect me too badly during the day.

<comment><USER17> Is that necessarily OCD? I do that sometimes, but I think it's just regular worries coupled with a poor memory (and inattentiveness), that leaves me often unsure if I really did something like lock the car door.

<comment><USER18> Wouldn't it make sense if all humans were along a continuum (possibly non- linear) with regards to OCD symptoms? Pick a point somewhere on that continuum; "normal" to the left, "OCD" to the right.

<comment><USER19> While this is somewhat true, it can easily lead to the idea that mental health problems aren't serious because they are just further along a scale than me.

We all have kidneys that don't work perfectly, so we are all on a continuum of kidney failure, however you'd describe some people as having kidney failure and others not, only a few people would be 'borderline'.

I appreciate that may not have been what you meant, just that your argument lies close to that kind of logic (though maybe by saying non-linear you mean to avoid this trap).

<comment><USER20> Mental health is totally a (multidimensional) spectrum, and in mental health it switches from normal to a "problem" if it's affecting your life. There are a ton of medical conditions where we've drawn lines in where we think it goes from normal to a problem (blood pressure, blood glucose) and I don't think anyone is saying "oh, your blood glucose is just different than mine, you don't have it that bad". We even have the term "prediabetic" to indicate that they are getting to the bad end of the spectrum.

I think it's incredibly useful to realize that all of us experience symptoms of anxiety and depression, intruding thoughts and compulsions, but those who with the problems are just those further along the line. It's not diminishing the issue, it's humanizing the sufferer. They aren't "crazy", they are suffering from something we all can relate to, but just in a manner that's unmanageable.

<comment><USER21> Too often the "spectrum" theory is used to humble-brag about one's own success in the face of self-diagnosed shortcomings. Vocal patients with mild cases of a disease can then receive more support and treatment than less-vocal patients with more severe cases.

<comment><USER20> That always happens. It's people clearing out "toxins" with "cleanses".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Couldn't get rid of all the compulsions for quite a long time (a few years really), but after starting meditating every day I was able to nearly totally get rid of them.

I'm basically finally able to just let go of the thoughts that once seemed overwhelming.

EDIT: To quote the article "because deep down, the sufferer knows the thoughts and compulsions are irrational. However, despite this knowledge, there always remains a terrible "what if".".

That's basically it, I'm able to finally rationally decide that letting go won't have bad effects, so I'm able to let it go.

</comment><comment><USER23> Trigger warning for health anxiety folks. Nothing to see here.

I will never forget one day I opened Hacker News, and the top story was about a 30-year-old programmer named Jonathan (also my name, and I'm 29) who found out about his terminal cancer spreading throughout his body. This was one of many trigger moments in my life.

I struggle against health anxiety. Specifically, I am obsessed with dying young from cancer.

I am not diagnosed with OCD, but health anxiety presents very similar behaviors.

When I feel particularly vulnerable to a specific kind of cancer, I tend to research and wrap my head around probabilities, prevention, and everything I can to hedge myself against that cancer. I'm constantly checking in with small pains in my body.

I have chronic back issues (partially because of my posture while working). Pain exacerbates the anxiety.

For the first two months of this year, I couldn't hold my infant son without ending up on the edge of tears, because I was emotionally convinced I would die before I ever had the chance to see him grow up.

One understated effect of OCD and anxiety is the feeling of guilt you can foster because of your own behavior.

My wife's father recently went through a battle with pancreatic cancer. It was a complete rollercoaster. He ended up having the unlikely type, in a good way - he is now cancer free. But one moment stands out to me: when she came to tell me about what they had found. She started out by telling me, "I don't want to trigger your anxiety..." This both broke my heart and made me feel understood.

This is something that really has more influence on life than you expect. I feel for those of you who struggle with OCD, anxiety, and any other mental health issues. I don't have an answer, other than you are not alone. You're not isolated. You aren't the first to experience this, and you can live your life WITH the struggle, even if it feels impossible.

Seek help. Surround yourself with people who love you and want to understand and help. Don't seek reassurance; seek acceptance.

</comment><comment><USER24> Hi. I have suffered from thinking about the future as something dangerous (a question of life or death) that is determined from each decision I make. It has helped me a lot: 1) The faith: what is going to happen, what should happen. And that to receive it as learning. A spiritual conception has let me not be so attached to life. Knowing that if death comes it has a meaning. And that there is a transcendence. 2) Do not manipulate with the intention of achieving my benefit. Giving meaning to the life of the common good. 3) Communicate: Talk about what happens to my family and friends. Do not keep it for me, expose me. 4) Put myself in the role that I should occupy: At work, as an employee. In my family, as a brother, as a son. With the doctor, as a patient ... This order helped me to a better social development and a greater simplicity in my mind. At the beginning, it cost me a lot to respect the treatment. I thought that I would not be able to develop professionally (I'm a systems engineer), and that I would lose intelligence. But with family help, with patience and learning to be more flexible, medication has been reduced to a minimum. It's a process that has taken me years (and I'm still in process). I appreciate everything that happened to me, because it has brought me many learnings.

</comment><comment><USER25> It's interesting how contamination OCD seems to be one of the most relatable forms of OCD to those who aren't sufferers. I'm glad articles like this are being written (there are a few other good ones out there), but it's unfortunate that this subset of the disorder is the only one that gets attention.

There are hundreds of variations of OCD -- basically, a variation for each thing you might have a fear over -- as fear and anxiety are at the root of the behavior associated with OCD. If you can fear it, you can probably create an obsession over it.

Much like the author, I also suffered a "nervous breakdown" in my 20s (and I'm still in my 20s, so this wasn't that long ago...) and tried to get myself hospitalized for the sake of my immediate family, as taking care of somebody in that state is emotionally exhausting. Fortunately, I had terrible insurance at the time that didn't allow for "non-critical" inpatient hospitalization, so I ended up going back home. This ended up being the right decision, because as mentioned in the article, exposure therapy is the best way to treat OCD. Avoidance behaviors actually _reinforce_ the damn thing, only making you worse.

I've thought about writing in more depth about my particular form of OCD, which is a difficult one to treat as my compulsions are entirely mental (compulsions are just reassurance seeking behavior, and you'd be surprised at the mental gymnastics one can try to jump through to reassure themselves about a situation). I consider myself very fortunate for having lived in a city with one of the best OCD clinics in the country, as I went through a few months of clinicians and psychiatrists not really understanding what was happening to me, before ending up at the right place.

Writing about OCD is incredibly exhausting, because as many other people have related in this thread, even reading about OCD tends to be triggering to sufferers. Writing about it is basically saying, "hey, I don't mind exposing myself to old and new anxieties over and over and over, with the potential to make my next few weeks miserable", so the people that do it are admirable. Probably healthier for it, too, given it's basically therapy.

I can't imagine what it's like to write a novel, like John Green did with Turtles All The Way Down, while also being a sufferer. I'm sure medication must help. ;)

<comment><USER26> I relate very keenly to this and found this resource really helpful: [https://www.intrusivethoughts.org/ocd-symptoms/pure- ocd/](https://www.intrusivethoughts.org/ocd-symptoms/pure-ocd/)

The main thing that has helped me has been meditation. I've also found labelling of thoughts to be very powerful. If you can realize what's going on and label it as anxiety, it takes the sting out of it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> the fact that this article got upvoted so much probably also explains why there are always paper towels available and a waste basket near every restroom door in the bay area right?

I literally possess binary memory when it comes to "what is clean" and "what isn't clean (touched the floor, public restroom, etc)" for most of my things. Also used to have "San francisco shoes" and "South bay shoes"

<comment><USER28> >I literally possess binary memory when it comes to "what is clean" and "what isn't clean (touched the floor, public restroom, etc)" for most of my things.

after working in tissue culture where sterility matters (to put it lightly) i have developed a similar mentality. in the lab, it teaches you to be overly careful with things because a lot of the time you have to throw them out if they get dirty, and often the bar for "being dirty" can be as low as "was exposed to air while uncovered". it causes a lot of very wasteful carryovers into real life.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> This scene played out almost every night, except I learned to be quiet so no one would know I couldn't open the door because of a mysterious feeling that if I didn't do it "right" something horrible would happen.

I didn't quite realize it, but how many people suffering from OCD are motivated by "something horrible" happening? Like I wonder how many people have compulsions that aren't motivated by something bad happen?

<comment><USER30> For most OCD sufferers, it's the "do this or you'll die" thing (at least, from what I've read).

> Like I wonder how many people have compulsions that aren't motivated by > something bad happen?

I'm one. I have compulsions, and none of the obsessions involve me being certain of impending death if they aren't carried out just so.

For me, it's an extremely intense feeling of _wrongness_. Not like morality; just that there exists some "right" way to do certain things, and doing it any other way is somehow inherently wrong or incorrect. Why would I willingly do something the wrong way?

It makes my skin crawl if I do it wrong. Like there's a physical sensation of "You've screwed up; go back and do it again until you do it right." My stomach drops and I feel that one shiver you get when you're just a bit too cold.

Of course, I'm never compelled to do _useful_ things the right way. My go-to example is from a few years ago. I eat cereal a lot, and historically have mostly always eaten Smart Start and Raisin Nut Bran. Maybe four years ago, I branched out and got some Cinnamon Life for the first time since I was a kid. I ate the bowl of cereal and all was well. Then I tried to put the box back on the shelf... and I couldn't. It was wrong. The box was printed wrong, and I didn't know what to do. You know how there's those interleaving flaps on the top? I like to put my boxes on the shelf such that the flap the goes on top is on the left and the nutrition information faces out (that way I can pick it up with my right hand and easily open the box and pour into the bowl — any other way of doing it would be _wrong_ , somehow). But the Life box was printed such that the flaps and the nutrition information were at odds. I had to make a choice: either face out the nutrition information and have the flaps wrong, or put the flaps correctly and have the wrong side of the box face outwards.

I debated the best compromise for some thirty minutes, until my roommate came home and asked why I wasn't in class. I hastily shoved the box on the shelf (flaps correct, nutrition information be damned) and made some excuse about having missed my alarm. I was completely preoccupied with my decision for the rest of the day, and haven't bought Life since because I can't deal with the stomach-sinking feeling of having done something wrong.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> An interesting podcast episode that talks a bit about OCD is [https://www.npr.org/programs/invisibilia/375927143/the- secre...](https://www.npr.org/programs/invisibilia/375927143/the-secret- history-of-thoughts)

</comment><comment><USER32> One of my obsessions is that objects aren't the "right temperature", even if I intellectually know they should be.

This has led to many a burned hand throughout my youth as I would reach out and touch a hot stove or incandescent light bulb to make sure they were really hot like they should be.

</comment><comment><USER33> I'm using a throwaway account and trying to keep personal details sparse to keep this as anonymous as possible. Also, despite my frustration with the situation, I'll attempt to be as neutral as possible.

My significant other was always "germ conscious"; clean hands, no shoes in the house, etc. Nothing over the top or alarming. However, over the years, there have been huge shifts in behavior and routine in regards to keeping clean. This person has made the house the "clean zone". All attempts are made to avoid contamination from the outside world.

The routines in the house start with the notion that you are dirty if you've been outside. "Outside" isn't inherently dirty, so things like yard work and actual dirt are okay. Basically, if you've driven anywhere, you're dirty. Anything that you or your clothing touches (while dirty) must be cleaned. If it's the floor, it must be cleaned immediately to avoid tracking germs through the house.

The dirty rules apply to everything. Anything brought into the house from outside is dirty and must be cleaned before use.

Strictly speaking, the basement is dirty. Touching (nearly) anything means that your hands are now dirty. Shoes or slippers must be worn before going downstairs.

Shoes must be removed before coming in the house, but you can't step where your shoes have been...otherwise your feet are dirty also. Sandal wearers must wear socks in the house.

We have guests over, but all walkways must be cleaned after they've left. Any surfaces they touched or sat on are cleaned as well.

Work days must end with a shower and change of clothing after coming home. It doesn't have to happen immediately, but one can't sit on furniture and should be careful not to contaminate anything.

The furniture, floors, cabinets, handles and counters see regular cleaning with either lysol wipes, alcohol wipes or lysol spray.

One larger issue stems from the fact that my spouse is a medical professional and is fearful of transmission of things like MRSA. While there is a real concern there, I'm of the opinion that the cleanliness routine is too extreme. This person does not typically do not work in a hospital, but when they do, they have a routine that must be followed.

\- The car must be sanitized

\- Shoes are removed outside and sanitized

\- Clothing is removed in the basement and put into the wash immediately

\- Person showers, which unfortunately means a naked stroll across the house from the basement all the way to the bathroom.

\- Clothing is washed again

\- The washer is now washed

After drying on the line, the clothing is washed again and the line is sanitized

All items on the person (jewelry, purse, bags, phone, pens, etc…) must be sanitized

This behaviour has slowly gotten worse since we started living together. The logic is consistent, but new behaviours are constantly being added. Where I'm really beginning to become concerned is that we recently had a child. I'm hopeful that this will encourage positive change, as some behaviors aren't sustainable with a antsy child. But, I'm concerned that they will get worse and that the child will pick up on these behaviours.

Early signs of concern with the child: The showering rule applies to everybody. So, somebody has to hold the baby while the other showers. You can't put the baby anywhere, because that would be dirty now as well. This has already become problematic now that the baby is almost three. Basically, somebody is stuck with a squirmy kid that you can't put down for upwards of 20 minutes.

ANY attempt at discussing this has been met with extreme hostility, to the point where I'm afraid to mention or question the germaphobia.

I try to be very patient, but I believe that I've enabled too much of this behavior for fear of sacrificing a happy household.

<comment><USER28> this might be medically unadvisable, but i have found that education goes a long way towards disarming the notion that anything can ever really be clean if it is in your house. i helped one of my friends be _slightly_ less obsessed with cleanliness this way.

let's say you bleach down a perfectly smooth countertop in your kitchen. okay, it's clean, there's no bacteria there. for about two seconds. probably less, in reality. we can't see microorganisms with our naked eyes, but they are as much a part of our physical environment as the air.

put differently, you can't make them go away by cleaning compulsively. not even for a moment. not in your home, at least. sure, if you see mold growing on food, throw it out. but you aren't about to out-clean nature's ability to survive.

remember, nature has been playing the game of "gotta inhabit every potential niche, ESPECIALLY if nobody else is there, because then there will be more room for me!" for a few billion years. a lifetime spent applying cleaning products isn't about to make any headway, nor will it prevent disease beyond a certain minimal level.

<comment><USER34> The OCD notion of cleanliness doesn't always have really anything to do with any real germs or other pathogens. "Dirtiness" is more an abstract concept that varies and develops over time.

<comment><USER33> I think, in this case, it's the fear of the known that is the problem. "Dirty" is the concept used to describe all the reasons to clean stuff. But, real- world issues like MRSA are scary and the root of this slippery slope. Combined with the fact that my spouse works in a highly contagious environment doesn't help.

<comment><USER35> What an awful situation for you both. Would a change of career be possible/practical/helpful?

<comment><USER33> Possibly, but my partner finds the work extremely enriching. I'd hate to upset that balance as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> > _Most people still think having OCD means you're a neat freak or like your > shoes precisely lined up in the closet. Come to my apartment; I'll show you > that's not true. OCD is not a personality or preference. It's a mental > illness that can have devastating effects on how you live and interact with > the world._

Well, yes, but it can also manifest in being a "neat freak" (and not just of the mild kind).

</comment><comment><USER37> i used to be plagued by worries who some might relate to all kinds of stress disorders or obsessive / compulsive disorders. Recently in my life i found actually, that these things are stress, and that (i finally managed for a short while to..) if i resolve this stress in my life, this whole background noise of worries and negative thinking just goes away. like it's not even actually my own thoughts or something...

Not trying to tell how the mind or psychology works, but after a few diagnoses of incurable mental problems, i found that actually these were all wrong, and the problem was just plain stress. it;'s very hard and painful to accept and resolve these things, costs a lot of self-reflection and self-acceptance of the dark side to put it simply, but i'd want to encourage anyone who suffers from these things, to the point of being depressed for years and years on end, that there is hope to grow beyong yourself, to places more calm and beautiful than you can even imagine.

Keep up hope and positivity, and look into yourself for positivity and you will find it.

~peace

</comment><comment><USER38> I am not gonna post this as anonymous, because I need to put this out of my chest: I am absolutely terrified of blood pressure being high/measuring it.

I was giggling (and almost crying) while reading the article, because putting it out into words makes it sounds really ridiculous, stupid, and obvious, but for us while we are following one of our 'mental stories', it feels very real.

I have the same stuff OP wrote about, but with blood pressure. I am absolutely terrified of 'having high blood pressure' because of traumas of the past, and stuff that was said to me that kinda stuck. I fear having my blood pressure measured and having that makes it go up as I try to measure it. It sucks and is really detrimental to my mental health.

I have anxiety and panic attacks. Whenever I feel uneasy or feel my heart beat faster and/or stronger in my chest, I think: "what if my blood pressure is severely high right now? that is why I am having these symptoms! what if... what if... what if..."

I have measured my blood pressure probably a million times and usually at the third reading it is fine (I need to measure 2-3 times because the first reading is always a little high, because I panic - heart rate goes up, my breathing gets strange). By the time I end my ritual, the blood pressure is always fine at 11-12/7 or 12-13/8, and I get relief for some days or weeks (the thought goes away).

I have also countless times doubted these good readings and thought 'what if by the time I just got this good reading it got back to being high? I don't know right now, it _could_ be high right now?'. These doubts made me do insane things like measuring it all the time for some weeks (I'm past that phase, thank goodness).

I have also made my wife measure it while I sleep "just to make sure I really don't have high BP all the time" \-- turns out, because I am sleeping and unaware I am about to be measured, my blood pressure readings (even the first one) are always good. I still can't let go of it...

Almost every time I go to cardiologist or anything related to heart/blood pressure, if the doctor approaches me to try to measure my BP, my anxiety goes off. And the reading is usually a little high. On rare occasions, if the doctor is understanding of my fear/condition and talks me out of it (and has patience), I get a good reading and that brightens my day up more than earning a million bucks.

Like I said, writing it out makes it sound _so_ ridiculous to me, almost like a play. I just wish I wasn't cast to it...

'what if' is the true enemy.

PS: I jog 2km 5 times a week and swim 1.5km 3 times a week. I am still not convinced I am healthy and strong - if i get any palpitations from strenuous exercise "hey it could be my bp or my heart acting funny"

PS2: I have done multiple ekgs, dopplers, 24h ekgs, all fine. The only exam I haven't done yet is the '24h blood pressure readings' because guess what -- terrified of having that stuff stuck to my arm for a whole day.

<comment><USER39> Oh, this is so me. Except I'm constantly convinced I'm having a heart attack. For some reason I associate a fast pulse with imminent death. Then I start to panic and the adrenaline floods in and guess what? My pulse gets faster and the cycle continues.

It usually comes up out of nowhere when I'm alone, like I'm convinced I'm going to pass out and nobody is going to know and I'll die for lack of treatment. My doctor actually laughed at me when I described taking a shower, feeling my pulse go up, and imagining passing out, the hot water running out and me dying of a combined heart attack / hypothermia / drowning situation because it would be hours before anyone noticed I was missing. Don't get me started on what goes through my head while driving alone on a highway or, the horror, being out on a lake in a canoe.

I try to ride my bike at least 16km a day, and it does help condition me to experiencing a high pulse without sudden death. EKG, stress test, heart ultrasound all came back perfect save for the palpitations, which my doctor described as "extremely, extremely benign." I feel better for a little while after every test but it inevitably comes back, as if I constantly need a medical professional to explain to me that I'm not dying.

Are you considering treatment? I'm certainly thinking about it at this point.

<comment><USER38> Reading your answer made me feel a little less crazy (thank you?). It is actually reassuring to know there are people experiencing the same stuff and doubts, and that i'm not alone.

We all should really talk about this with our friends, coworkers, etc. We should let the word out. I don't know about you but I feel embarrassed of this condition, like I'm a lesser person because of this. And not talking about it makes me even more anxious... I don't like admitting it. When I talk about it freely (like I am doing now, in a somewhat leap of confidence (hopelessness? haah)) I feel way more relaxed and the monster becomes a little smaller.

We are probably fine bro! You certainly wouldn't be able to bike 16km with a heart condition. It's all in our heads.

Also, there is a lot of it to being a perfectionist. I somewhere read that having a low pulse is a good sign. When I'm really relaxed my pulse is like, 60-58bpm.... now picture this:

I am at work right now, sitting in my chair, typing this and juggling 10 other tasks, I am definitely not relaxed. Just measured my pulse using a cellphone app, I'm at 70bpm, which is quite good (since the normal range is 60-100). BUT:

\- Why did I measure my HR in the first place just because I read about yours, even tho I am not experiencing any kind of symptoms right now?

\- Having measured it, and seeing a pretty normal number, why am I not satisfied? why am I apprehensive that it's not the 'best' number that could come out, it's only a 'good' number? I would have had some reason to be worried if i was sitting here feeling absolutely nothing and then I got a reading of idk, 105bpm. So why everything has to be always perfect in my head?

We create these fantasies that things are/should be clear cut in real life, but we know everything is chaotic and imperfect. As we cling more and more into our 'perfect mental models' we suffer because it will always mismatch with reality.

We should take a moment to stop and be grateful for what we have, instead of suffering for not attaining the perfect unattainable pattern we strive for.

Answering your question: I have taken meds before (Xanax), and all symptoms went away, and then my ocd kinda receded too, I had a phase I simply forgot about all this and just __lived __.

I am off it now because my doctor said I am already experienced enough to power through the panic attacks, and she knew I have a preference for not being on meds if I can (which is where I am now - trying to be sane and exercise and eat well and just power through).

My BP phobia is really hard on me but if I don't relapse to the 'measuring everyday all day long' stage I am not going back to meds, nope. I want the real thing.

Right now I am managing it quite okay, following the shrink's recommendation to just NOT MEASURE IT. not even if i have symptoms, not even if i have palpitations. The thought occurs to me and I try to acknowledge it and talk myself out of it, much like starting to meditate.

Sorry for the huge answer but I felt 'at home' sharing this with you since it looks like we are very similar in this regard. Hope this helps you and everyone that reads this.

If you wanna reach out, I am here.

o/

<comment><USER39> Well, reading yours made _me_ feel less crazy. I feel like you don't hear about this aspect of mental illness that often. It's like a weird cross- section between anxiety, hypochondria, and OCD (which I hadn't considered before). My doctor referred to it as "hypervigilance" and it seems like there is plenty of literature out there concerning it.

This study actually looks pretty interesting: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862826/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862826/)

I stopped actually counting my pulse a while back. It wasn't exactly willful... more like I just don't want to know because it's probably artificially high and it's not like I've ever felt better after checking it anyway.

I know I'm in good health, which is where the "I'm not dying, just a little crazy" thoughts come in. When it gets really bad most of my energy is spent remembering that I can do things like ride 16km and feel just fine, despite feeling like I can't breathe and my heart is going to jump out of my chest and my nerve endings feel like they're on fire. Xanax has been recommended to me but I'm very reluctant to start down that road. I can't really justify why, it just seems slightly scary or somehow unpleasant.

Also, you're right. I should communicate with those around me a little better. It gets very awkward trying to explain an attack away.

Thanks for talking!

<comment><USER38> > Well, reading yours made _me_ feel less crazy.

Btw, I believe my wording made you think that somehow I said that you're crazier than me ahhaah and I feel better because I know there are 'crazier people than me'. English is not my first language, so sorry :-) What i really meant is that it feels good to _know_ there are people going through the same stuff, because usually when we are having these symptoms, we tend to feel really alone ("why does this only occur to me?"), which is wrong -- there are lots of people going through this.

Don't be scared of Xanax, I took it for two years and it really helped. It won't cure you, but it will do better: if you're struggling too much (daily) it will give you some time off to reorganize your thoughts and understand the whole situation (when you're in panic you're not able to have a logical train of thought, right?). And with better understanding comes better mental tools to deal with it (reassurance, previous experience, etc).

Have a good one!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Doors are always unlocked for me, I have to go back and try it a few times. Or the dog will 100% somehow get through the other doors in the way, pull the handle, then run into the road. Also if I sleep with the bedroom window open he'll 100% definitely jump out of the window when I'm asleep. Fun times.

</comment><comment><USER41> To add to the comments here, it's also important to stay very humble about those compulsions, knowing that they can appear anytime in life, when you have kids, when they to go college, when you lose a parent etc, even sickness can bring it.

</comment><comment><USER42> I don't known if I have OCD or I'm just a over thinker. Most of the time I must process the words I'm about to say to another person. I have a hard time making spontaneous conversations.

</comment><comment><USER43> Not a sufferer of OCD, but anxiety and depression (and associated neuroticism). One of the scary things to accept is that you have no control over what you think, free will is a (darn good) illusion.

Since we have no idea why these obsessive and dark thoughts are occuring in psychiatric patients, the best thing you can do, as a patient, is to get good at identifying all the bullshit that's going through your head: "No, that random crowd of people doesn't deeply despise you", "No, you don't have to kill yourself because you can't finish your studies in regular time", "No, you won't be laughed at because you're looking for an SO"

Precisely none of the fears I had have ever come to pass. I am, relative to people I interact with, (by a huge margin) my largest critic, which can be disabling, when every time you make some small trivial mistake you think "Oh god, nobody will ever forgive me for this, what a stupid PoS you are". It's all a fiction told by a disordered part of the mind.

On the bright side, things have been improving a ton for me since when it was really bad a year ago, but it takes medication (not an option for everyone), time and lots of patience.

One of the best things I came across on the web are the works of Robert Sapolsky, biology and neurology professor at Stanford. Specifically his 25 part lecture series: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL150326949691B199](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL150326949691B199), his talk on depression: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc) and his book "Behave" (there's more from him, just look around).

It's not that I learned some "magic fact" that suddenly frees me from all nonsensical thoughts, but it has opened up the complex, nuanced world of human biology and behavior and numerous interactions between genes and environment, between mind and body or between different functional parts of the brain (obviously a course like this can only give a broad overview).

There's so much hidden stuff happening that, without us being conscious of it, influences who we are, and yet one doesn't have to be a plaything of one's environment, because several of these factors can be influenced like which experiences you seek and which you avoid, once you are aware that these things can shape you. That said, a lot of stuff like your genetic predisposition, prenatal environment, childhood, external stressors (e.g. death of close relatives and friends) can not be changed, but it also matters _how_ you think about them.

One will not become resistant to psychiatric illness no matter how fancy and elaborate you think about it or yourself, but it takes off the edge of thinking of oneself as this especially hopeless case. And equally importantly Sapolsky's course/book shaped my thinking of others, made me much less prejudicial (I sometimes catch myself with prejudice, but normally I notice), much more aware that everyone else is also subject to the same rules and phenomena that govern human thought and behavior and there's nothing "wrong" with them (in the sense that they're just "an evil person" or somesuch thing).

</comment><comment><USER44> I never knew ocd had anxious thoughts to them. I thought they were thoughtless compulsions.

<comment><USER45> It doesn't primarily manifest as anxiety, more of an intrusive thought (obsession). E.g. until you have washed your hands, you are actively aware of a feeling they are unclean and need to be washed. This can amount to distractability and irritability, which is remedied by the compulsive act (washing hands). Combined with the highly co-morbid condition of ADHD, the intrusive thoughts can impair ability to manage attention.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Ugh. What a terrible affliction to have.

</comment><comment><USER47> I thought this was referring to XKCD's "What if".

</comment><comment><USER48> I've OCD and i was on a verge of complete failure.

Untill a friend recommended me to try Ashwgandha (Withania somnifera)

After that my life completely changed positively.

I've lost my anxiety since then. I usually take it with a glass of milk.

Now, I've very less stress.

<comment><USER49> My preliminary research shows it's in the realm of homeopathy and folk medicine. But still might be worth a shot if it can reduce anxiety.

Can you elaborate a bit on how to find it and how it changed you?

<comment><USER50> [https://examine.com/supplements/ashwagandha/?PageSpeed=noscr...](https://examine.com/supplements/ashwagandha/?PageSpeed=noscript)

If you haven't encountered it, examine.com is a good resource; they curate research on supplements.

In the Human Effect Matrix, in the Anxiety entry, you can see a link to 3 double-blind, placebo controlled studies examining the effects of ashwagandha on anxiety: [https://examine.com/rubric/effects/view/a42299063269c89b14ce...](https://examine.com/rubric/effects/view/a42299063269c89b14ced47e812decef/042f3f19742d86e6bbfa31ee9af3bfa6/all/?PageSpeed=noscript)

As far as sourcing, you could look at consumerlab (paid subscription; they do independent testing of supplements).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Memantine (5-10 mg) + selank.

Add a multivitamin, D + K, and chelated/TRAACS magnesium supplement. Like AOR Ortho-Core (or Life Extension Two-per-day if too expensive), Life Extension D + K, and Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium.

Can also add Doctor's Best DHA 500 and Doctor's Best Real Krill.

Nutrient tests like NutrEval catch many deficiencies. And a comprehensive hormone panel (include thyroid panel). And genetic testing.

<comment><USER52> I first tried this kind of thing over 10 years ago. In my experience, it gives initial benefits, followed by a relapse to an even worse state of ill health.

Mental illnesses are not just physiological in origin and cannot be treated as such.

They are a complex combination of physiological and emotional issues, and both must be addressed in step with one another for complete healing to occur.

<comment><USER51> Did you try what I mentioned or something else? The first stack, for example, took effect quickly and continued to work.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> I had OCD (compulsive hand washing, obsessive food hygiene beyond normal, obsessive about which things touched my lips or hands)

It was tiring. Frustrating. Depressing. It felt like a disease that ruled my life.

A change in circumstances distanced me from unrelated stresses in my life and the OCD disappeared. It seemed that it was a manifestation of unrelated stresses.

</comment><comment><USER54> I seriously wonder if OCD could be is created because of our lifestyle in society. Yesterday I went to a coffeeshop (creamery in SF) and there was this crazy bathroom where I had to scan a QR code to get in. The door automatically opened, I walked in, and it automatically closed behind me. When I washed my hands, the water faucet detects motion and it has a built in air dryer as well. When I'm done, I pushed a button and the door automatically opened.

Afterwards, I thought about why such a crazy bathroom was built and I realized that my entire bathroom could be done without me touching anything so I could keep myself clean. It made me think about all the germs in every bathroom door handle and all the hands touching it. If I didn't consciously stop myself, I could see myself becoming slight OCD.

At the same time, I wonder if someone who practiced true altruism would ever develop OCD. If I'm only focused on helping others without thinking about myself, would it be easier to let things go?

<comment><USER55> I'm one of those people who uses a paper towel to open public bathroom doors. I get upset when:

1\. There's no trash can by the door for my auxiliary paper towel

2\. The door isn't _push_ on the inside (can't kick with my foot).

For the reason you mention. I'm sure it's mostly just conditioning. It's a harmless preference and it probably saved me a few colds (although, perhaps getting a virus would have helped me in the long term...).

<comment><USER56> Sometimes there is a trash can by the door but it has a lid (with a handle). Even if the door needs to be pulled from the inside you simply grab the door handle with a piece of paper and open the door, and then throw the paper in the trash can.

<comment><USER55> Which is why I'm upset when I don't find one by the door. Wouldn't the lid make it even more of a pain? I guess I didn't understand what you said.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Data Scraping - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> Scrape. Don't violate TOS, but you should grab any public data that you legally can to improve your app. Watch robots.txt for specific rules beyond TOS, and be kind to the servers. Don't thread like crazy just because you can.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hey all,

I wanted to get some input on your thoughts on data scraping. Our mobile app, DateMapps is dependent on the content input of the users. Specifically, the app allows users to view date itineraries and filter by their dating preferences to select one that will be of most help to them on their next date. However, unlike web-based sites that are dependent on user-generated content, it is difficult to get enough content to populate the app without it being available on the app store. We've encouraged users to create date itineraries through using test flight, but the process unlike the app store where one can simply download and begin to use the app, is often cumbersome and sometimes a deterrent. With that in mind, I'm deciding between releasing the app to the app store with minimal content (slightly over 1,000 date itineraries) and allow for organic growth from there, or scrape data from sites like Yelp. My issue with releasing to the app store is having users not be satisfied with the minimal content out there and thereby view that at being unhelpful (understandably so). Going back to the scraping option, though I could just use Yelp's API, it's important that the content is relevant to date spots and activities. Additionally, the profiles related to content are also necessary. Aside from that, I don't want to sacrifice the quality of the content by going with the scraping route. I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially if you've been in a similar situation.</comment>


Ask HN: How to DIY build a NAS system with old PCs and open source software - <AUTHOR> I have searched the HN, nothing new since a few years ago on this. So here we go: I have a 2 year old low end desktop PC laying around with Celeron processors, rather than throw it to the landfill, I want to build a NAS system (pretty sure it has horse power than the custom ARM chips in the commercial solutions out of the shelf).  Gigabit NIC upgrade, cheap hard drives and RAID setup (RAID5 or something else?) are assumed.
I wonder if anyone in HN community have had similar DIY project built and with good experience with them. Obviously, it would be run on an open source software stack (but which ones should I choose?).
Any suggestion is appreciated! <comment><USER2> I use proxmox ([https://www.proxmox.com/en/](https://www.proxmox.com/en/)), it has support for ZFS out of the box and allows you to run services in containers.</comment>


Chrono-Compatible Low-Level Date Algorithms - <AUTHOR> https://howardhinnant.github.io/date_algorithms.html <comment><AUTHOR> I was reading the elm/time source and saw a bunch of weird magic numbers. Trying to figure out what was going on, I googled some of the numbers and found this paper.

It is enthralling and terrifying and supports the implacably-true mantra: dates and times are very hard.</comment>


Show HN: Deskulu – Opensource knowledgebase and ticketing system - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/taskulu/deskulu <comment><USER2> Nice work and thanks for sharing! And don't care about the PHP haters here.

For those who wants to go with hosted anyway, I'd recommend looking into Freshdesk instead of Zendesk.

Some reasons:

* Free tier up to three users

* Cheaper licenses once you leave the free tier. (IIRC)

* More features included by default in the free and lowest tiers. (IIRC)

Just be aware that a friendly Indian (or so I think) will call to try to upsell you : )

<comment><USER3> We use Freshdesk's "FreshService" ticket system at my workplace and the way it handles replies in one ticket from non-agents is absolute garbage.

You make a ticket by email, it adds to the system, a support agent is assigned to it, so far so good... then a developer with access to see the ticket goes to the ticket page and adds a helpful reply, except the ticket creator never hears about it. It's registered on the ticket web UI, but the creator of the ticket is ONLY notified of the responses by the support agent only. This sucks big time (and AFAIK is not configurable.)

Also god forbid someone uses email (or an email alias you're part of) to make the ticket and you accidentally do Reply All so your reply creates a brand new ticket just for you as opposed to appearing as a response in the initial ticket. It's so dumb. (You can get a ticket ID to put in a brand new email and then your reply would be registered but you need to know the ticket number first AND it still suffers the same issue that if you are not the support agent your reply is registered but never notified to the ticket creator.)

If your support is always 1-to-1 then by all means Freshservice is fine, though.

<comment><USER4> Hi Darkvertex. Sorry you had this experience with FS, but I blv you might have missed out some of the configurations in FS, which is why you feel the confusion. First off all, we dont block or restrict the developers from replying. While replying to the ticket, all you need to do is, toggle the option - Private/Public comment. For email replies this is very much configurable from your Admin > Observer rule. Create a rule to add a Public Note instead of a Private Note. If the reply is going to be via Email. If its going to be via the Ticket page itself, use the toggle below and change the reply to public. As for your 2nd point, we dont recommend using Alias emails because distribution list as Support or Helpdesk Email is a wrong method and has no accountability and hence we suggest using a proper support mailbox. This has been clearly mentioned in our Solution articles too, when you setup the Support mailbox. We suggest using a proper mailbox and use it in the system. Its just you need to setup the product in right manner, which will help you achieve you Support/Helpdesk model in the right way. If you need any assistance, we are more than happy to assist you

Thanks Vijay Freshservice Support

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Our current ticket tracker is Project Issue (the same one used by Drupal.org, sort of, though they seem to still be running a custom version). I dislike it a _lot_ , and it was a tremendous pain in the ass to migrate from the Drupal 6 version to the Drupal 7 version. I'm hesitant to invest any more time in Drupal-based solutions to things because of how painful our D6 to D7 migration has been and how buggy and incomplete almost every module we use has been. (And, with most developers now focusing on Drupal 8, I don't expect any of these problems to ever get fixed in Drupal 7.)

But, this looks really nice, and since I'm stuck with Drupal for the foreseeable future (I can't afford to stop everything to do another migration at this point), I will likely look into how difficult migrating our tickets from Project Issue would be. I don't suppose there's already a migration for that?

Also, using a third party for notifications as you're doing is problematic; probably even a deal breaker, for us. Though, I understand the desire to not use Drupal notifications, as they're among the most broken parts of the system and have a clumsy API and very weak solutions to common things like bounce processing and mailed replies.

Finally, I'm super impressed by how fast some experienced Drupal folks can whip something up. I struggle for days or weeks to do _anything_ with it. It's such a large system, and it always seems to take so much code to do even basic stuff (and forms API in Drupal is deeply ugly and verbose). That's my roundabout away of congratulating you for making something awesome in a very short amount of time.

Edit: You mention forums as a feature of this. Is that the standard Drupal forum module or something else?

</comment><comment><USER6> "Need a Mandrill account"

You may want to rethink this one as Mandrill screwed their customers big time recently. So I hope there is a way to add other services like sendgrid, mailgun etc.

<comment><USER7> I second this, I recently switched my apps off of Mandrill because of their changes.

I assume the authors didn't want to deal with the different "incoming webhooks" from different services, but it shouldn't be too hard to implement in theory.

For reference, here's a list of SMTP providers which support inbound email: [https://www.metachris.com/2016/03/free-transactional- email-s...](https://www.metachris.com/2016/03/free-transactional-email- services-the-best-alternatives-to-mandrill/#summary)

<comment><USER8> Does anyone know if they are trying to kill off Mandrill?

Shortly after they closed down the Mandrill login they closed down our account for a TOS violation without warning. Outbound emails immediately stopped sending and we had to switch to Sendgrid ASAP. Their support didn't cave one bit and it seemed like they were actively trying to lose us as customers.

<comment><USER9> Can you share what you were doing, and what they thought you were doing?

Do you also use Mailchimp to send marketing emails?

<comment><USER8> We had our main account which we used to send both marketing mails via MailChimp and transactional mails via SendGrid. There also was a old account that was used by a different department for partner newsletters, which was already inactive for a few months.

They disabled the account, which we only noticed because emails stopped sending, and their UI also didn't give any explanaition. We asked their support, they said the second account was a violation of the TOS. We explained the situation and they still insisted on keeping the account closed.

Now we are with Sendgrid and are spending much less on mails, but I'd rather have lived without spending the night restoring email functionality.

<comment><USER6> Don't bother with Mandrill. They clearly don't want to keep their transactional email customers and perhaps just want to focus on the marketing piece. After the way they handled mandrill, I wouldn't trust them anyway (and I was a paying client of mandrill). Go with Sendgrid, mailgun etc. for transactional emails.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> +1 for GPLv2. Would you consider making it "GPLv2 or later", as well as including the three-paragraph statement of the license in all of the source files?

</comment><comment><USER11> Any reason this shouldn't have straight up SMTP support built in? Was looking at an internal use for this right up until I noticed that requirement.

<comment><AUTHOR> Simply because we were using Mandrill at the time of writing this. It's easy to add more methods like SMTP/SendGrid/etc to it though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Great work! With such high per-agent pricing tiers on mainstream platforms such as osTicket and ZenDesk, this looks like a great alternative for startups and small teams :)

</comment><comment><USER13> You lost me at: "Deskulu is an opensource helpdesk and ticketing system based on Drupal 7..."

<comment><AUTHOR> I know Drupal is not the best or simplest thing for doing this out there. It's not even that good in terms of performance. But it's flexible and extremely fast when it comes to development time. Deskulu was not supposed to be scalable (it's not going to be Zendesk). I built the first version this over a weekend to handle our own tickets and then it's just been doing bug fixes/updates every now and then. It would've been impossible to do it in such short time with anything else (at least for me), and it's saved us hundreds of dollars over the past months. I'd call that a win.

<comment><USER14> Yes but it is not written in nodejs/rust/<insert lang of the moment> so clearly it is crap /s

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Awesome. Thank you.

</comment><comment><USER16> Good</comment>


alias warg="ssh" - <AUTHOR> In honor of Game of Thrones ending, instead of saying "I had to ssh into that server", just say "I had to warg into that server". <comment><USER2> alias dracarys="kill -9"</comment>


Those 40 and happy with life, what's your advice to people in their 20s? - <AUTHOR> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ghmr3e/people_who_are_40_and_happy_with_their_life_what/ <comment><AUTHOR> I found this on Reddit earlier today. It's interesting to see how the passage of time affects your priorities: I'd wager none of my friends (we're all students) would think of the things mentioned.

One I found really interesting was the idea of not synthesising life into a single narrative:

 _Don 't fall for the trap that your life needs to be one long narrative that you should be building. Life is best when it's a bunch of happy moments that just happen to be connected._

 _Don 't try to make your life into a novel, make it a book of poems._

</comment><comment><USER2> I always tell people that if you can invest in a retirement account in your 20s, you'll have 50 years for it to increase in value. (And now with the stock market down, you could even start off with a big bounce in the next recovery...)

You can also withdraw from these retirement accounts early for first-home purchases and medical emergencies. And some employers will even match your contributions, which one financial advisor described to me as "free money."

<comment><AUTHOR> Retirement savings seem pretty complicated in the States (Roth IRA, 401k etc)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I read that thread too. Being in my mid 40's I agree with most of what was said.

Some of the life lessons I have shared my kids, including my 22 year old.

1\. Listen to people to hear them not just to respond. You will develop better connections with people and have greater respect & understanding for people this way and they for you.

2\. Pay more attention to what people's actions are and less to what they tell you. This applies heavily to social media. What people post is what they want you to perceive, not necessarily what is reality.

3\. You have to be your own, humble, cheerleader. Celebrate your wins, and don't be too hard yourself when you fail, failure is just an opportunity to learn a new lesson.

4\. Expect that people will do what is in their own best interest until you see otherwise. It is human nature and you shouldn't be upset with someone for it. This one thing has kept me from being disappointed and upset with so many people because when you expect it you aren't hurt by it. Doesn't make me dislike anyone more, it lets me accept them as human.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for sharing!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Get an engineering degree.

Save money.

Never take it out until you're ready to retire.</comment>


UDFy-38135539 Is Most Distant Galaxy Ever Measured - <AUTHOR> http://www.science20.com/news_articles/udfy38135539_most_distant_galaxy_ever_measured

<comment><AUTHOR> Letter in Nature with technical details:

[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v467/n7318/full/nature0...](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v467/n7318/full/nature09462.html)</comment>


If you were an elephant - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/19/if-you-were-an-elephant- <comment><USER2> _" When the temporal glands near their eyes stream in circumstances that, for us, would be emotional, they're crying. When a bereaved elephant mother carries her dead baby round on her tusks, or trails miserably behind the herd for weeks, her head hanging down, she's grieving. When other elephants sit for hours around the body of a dead elephant, they're mourning. When they cover an elephant corpse with soil or vegetation, or move elephant bones, they're being reverential. When they cover a dead human, or build a protective wall of sticks around a wounded human, they're showing an empathic acknowledgment of our shared destiny that we'd do well to learn...

If you were an elephant... be careful, though. You're likely to end up dead because someone wants a couple of your teeth._"

That was beautifully written.

<comment><USER3> _That was beautifully written._

That was ascribing human emotions and behaviors to animals without a lot of evidence.

It reminds me of this photo[1]. People thought the male was hugging the dying female in a fit of grief. So touching.

When they asked animal experts, it turns out the male was actually forcing the female to mate. In human terms we call that rape.

[1] [http://www.couriermail.com.au/technology/science/dying- kanga...](http://www.couriermail.com.au/technology/science/dying-kangaroos- sad-goodbye-captured-by-hervey-bay-local/news- story/1093d41f649c3a54fb509f84e27879f2)

<comment><USER4> Just because animals have rape doesn't meant they don't also have grief.

<comment><USER5> Animals don't exactly have the same willpower and reputation requirements that one finds in typically civilized human social order.

If animals have rape, it's a subset of human-on-human rape, and carries fewer of the nuanced consequences of rape among humans.

Psychological trauma is probably not even in the equation when it comes to rape among most animals below a certain level of intelligence, particularly when considering untamed animals.

Due to the minimal psychological aspects, which assuredly are a hallmark of human-on-human rape, and the bald fact that the very word "rape" itself carries loaded connotations when considered as a concept by humans, I wonder if it is appropriate to use the same word for variations of sexual intercourse and related behavior among wild animals.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Too bad they are getting slaughtered left and right. If the next 10 years are as bad as the last, they will be extinct in the wild.

You guys should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is using his military experience to train the park rangers since they, unlike the poachers, tend to be poorly equipped and trained as well as understaffed. There is also the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust[3][4] which takes care of elephant and rhino orphans (most of them are orphans due to poaching). For $50 a year, you can become a sponsor of a particular animal and they'll send you photos and updates about how your sponsored animal is doing. You can for example sponsor this little cutie [5][6].

[0] [http://www.iapf.org/](http://www.iapf.org/)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Anti- Poaching_Fo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Anti- Poaching_Foundation)

[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Mander](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Mander)

[3] [http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/](http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/)

[4] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sheldrick_Wildlife_Trust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sheldrick_Wildlife_Trust)

[5] [http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/asp/orphan_profile.asp...](http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/asp/orphan_profile.asp?N=318)

[6] [https://www.instagram.com/p/BPoboF8j84H](https://www.instagram.com/p/BPoboF8j84H)

You should also check out [https://reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs](https://reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs) for your daily dose of pachyderm based content.

<comment><USER7> I've got an aunt who insists on sending me $100 every Christmas, and I usually spend it on those buy-a-goat-for-a-villager things. I guess this year I'm sponsoring elephants...

<comment><USER6> It's pretty great for kids, it introduces them to the idea of conservation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I really found that read interesting and also quite moving. Elephants are mysterious and noble animals, and it's very philosophically fulfilling to ponder about their mind and the deep chasm that separates it from ours. I sometimes have the idea that our notions of animal rights and the respect they deserve will soon undergo some rapid and deep evolution, in parts fueled by science and technology (AI for instance, which will necessarily transform our view of the mind, and its essence). I've also been quite influenced in that respect by the recent read of Yuval Harari's books (Sapiens and Homo Deus), in which he beautifully discusses the mind of animals and its implication for us.

</comment><comment><USER9> To be honest, stuff like this really annoys me.

I'm incredibly interested in animal minds (I just started reading that book that was posted a while back, Other Minds, about octopuses and consciousness, and I'm really liking it.) And of course, I think that poaching should be illegal and that we should protect and conserve the environment.

But...

> … the world would be a brighter, smellier, noisier place – and you would be > a better, wiser, kinder person

No, I wouldn't be a 'better ... person', I would be an elephant! Elephants have not created great works of art, literature, architecture, and poetry. Elephants have no written language, cannot build complex machines, and have not traveled to other worlds, or even explored their own. People have done incredible things with their bodies and minds in a way that animals simply cannot, period. This is (arguably) all a consequence of evolution being a _competition_ , and humans being predators. People _like_ to fight and win, to be better than something else. And while it would be great if human nature was just competitive enough to produce results, but not make humans physically violent, that would be fantastic! But I don't think evolution can exactly fine-tune something like that.

This happens every time that animal consciousness is discussed: somebody tries to claim that the animals in question have a completely different way of life than humans, and that their way of life is 'better', usually because they are peaceful, and that you are arrogant and ignorant if you don't agree. I think that's horseshit.

This would be almost tolerable if it didn't have the subtle feminist jabs hidden in there with the smug moral superiority - "As a boy, your function would be to inseminate, and that's all. Government would be the business of the females." As if being a walking pair of testes was somehow more noble than fighting, struggling, learning, winning, like human boys do. Stop all those pesky masculine behaviors, you "infantile phallocentric [nihilist]." Just be good and dumb and stay where you are.

<comment><USER10> Have you created great works of art, literature, architecture and poetry or built complex machines? That's precisely the kind of arrogance the author is arguing against. Yes, as a species we create art and complex machinery, and we write. How exactly does that make us better than every other life form on Earth? What does 'better' even mean? How is an elephant supposed to hold a pen? Elephants can be very agile with their trunk, but that's just one member. We've got ten of them. We can physically do more nifty stuff.

Who are we to deem an elephant's mind inferior to our own? Its brain is three times as massive as ours! Perhaps elephants have long solved questions we aren't even considering, handing down knowledge from generation to generation. Maybe their memory is more reliable than ours and preserves knowledge perfectly. How can we know?

This human arrogance seems to stem from the fact that communication with other beings is difficult at best. We have no practical way into their minds, and they don't write, so they can't show us what they're pondering all day. That does not mean they sleep, eat and fuck waiting for the coffin like the rest of us. Make no mistake, humans are more physically sophisticated, but mentally? Bar the rare individuals that advance our civilization, we're a bunch of wildly destructive animals held together by a set of rules we can't actually agree on. We're the only species that destroys environment and life just for the heck of it.

I like humanity a lot. It has a great ability to transform its environment, and writing things down certainly helps in enabling its intellectual progress. As you rightly point out, we've only come this far through competition, but I think we have reached a point in our technological development that enables us to shed that character and refocus. We should turn inwards, because the outside is reaching the limits of what it can give us. Our minds are something we have no grasp of, and provide those who look with endless wonder and discovery. If we want to be truly more advanced than any other life form on this planet, we have to get our shit together regarding the mind, otherwise it's all for nothing (i.e. will physically be blown to pieces sooner or later).

<comment><USER11> I'm sorry. It is preposterous to claim an elephant has greater level of intelligence than a human being. Cooperative behaviors require little individual intelligence (look at ants or bees). It is competitive and predatory behaviors that require cunning and sophistication. We are more intelligent because we have been constantly doing battle with the apex predator on this planet since the dawn of our existence. Conflict is what has shaped us into what we are today. Human technology and ingenuity does not exist despite our tendency toward violence but because of it.

I for one am filled with extreme pride when I look at the works of my human ancestors. We descended from the trees and will soon travel those distant points of light that filled us with wonder so long ago. Billions of us have died in that effort, your comment betrays their noble contribution.

Elephants are great. We should endeavor to protect them and show them kindness, but the reason we are able to do so is because we are vastly superior to them.

<comment><USER10> You're right, we've come this far because intelligence is a competitive advantage. However, we do not fully understand the mechanisms of evolution, and I thus find it hard to categorically deny all other beings' ability to think extensively. Their intelligence probably wouldn't be competitive ("how do I get there before that guy"), but maybe there are other kinds of intelligence. Kindness and compassion is not a human invention, and may well be an evolutionary advantage under some circumstances (grouping is needed for survival, and the group survives better by sharing), leading to intelligence based on kindness and not focusing on any single individual.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The writer ruined it for me at the end of the article by casually arguing for the existence of telepathy with a couple of vague anecdotes.

<comment><USER13> The article it links to higher up (the part about the tribe knowing what the hunters killed from 50 miles away) is a fascinating read about telepathy that vacillates between vaguely scientific analysis and outright fantasy. I enjoyed it from a "well, that's a fun perspective to view the world from" standpoint.

<comment><USER14> The specific Kalahari example in the linked article makes a claim without presenting any evidence; I was bummed, because I was really curious about their methodology. (Turns out there isn't any; it's just a 'synthesized' personal account of one author.)

Elephant "ESP" can be explained by infra-sound, however: [http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/elephant/cyclotis/language/...](http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/elephant/cyclotis/language/infrasound.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> In the grand thing of things, we're not _that_ distantly related to elephants, so it's not _that_ surprising we can relate to each others' minds, and imagine what it would be to be an elephant.

I'm trying to imagine some harder ones; animals that we can tell are highly intelligent but are more distantly related. If you were a crow. If you were an octopus.

</comment><comment><USER16> This is a worthwhile long read. If you're done reading it consider for a moment how they feel their environment quite differently than we do. Their eyes aren't their most important sense. Their trunks is how they sense most things.

Consider how our own bodies are capable of sensing so much from our surroundings with touch alone and how little we make use of it.

<comment><USER17> Do people generally consider sight to be our most important sense? I certainly don't—but I have synesthesia, so maybe I have to rely on more senses to get a clear picture of things. For example, I might fill up a glass by sound, identify one of my shirts by feel, or recognise a person by smell. I bet neurotypical people do this too, but if asked, they would _attribute_ it mainly to sight.

<comment><USER18> View sight as most important? yes - it's the window ( _ahem_ ) to the world, including highest bandwidth information delivery.

Fill up a glass by sound? yes, but except in rare cases, it's supplemental

Identify shirt by feel? Only if I didn't turn on the light - Yes, I can recognize the shirt I'm wearing by feel, or can tell what shirt I've grabbed out of the laundry basket while watching TV, but I definitely choose the shirt to wear by sight.

Recognize a person by smell? Almost always see them first.

<comment><USER17> That's interesting, thanks. I guess I don't bother to turn on a light if I don't intend to spend much time in a room, like if I'm just getting a glass of water, or grabbing something whose location I know. (And I'm actually pretty bad at looking for something with my eyes if I forget where it is.)

> Recognize a person by smell? Almost always see them first.

Haha, of course. I was thinking more along the lines of "Somebody left a sweatshirt at my apartment after the party—whose is it?"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> _A nearby human would throb like a bodhran as subsonic waves bounced around her chest._

If only that were more typical. What I see in the western parts of the US are lots of beginner players who are afraid to tune their strident, high pitched, pingy drums. (Also some good players.)

</comment><comment><USER20> What a lovely piece! It would be interesting to read a series, each with a different animal.

<comment><USER21> You'd probably enjoy the author's book Being a Beast[1], then:

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Being-Beast-Charles-Foster- ebook/dp/B...](https://www.amazon.com/Being-Beast-Charles-Foster- ebook/dp/B0158PV7VM)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Where should the absolute beginner investor start out? - <AUTHOR>

I have a few thousand dollars that I'm looking to invest. I know that it's not a lot, but its enough that I don't want it lying around in the bank.
I am a high school student with just about no financial experience/education. However, I would like to learn a little about investing - enough so that I can make some educated investments that might pay off in the long term.
Given that I'm a busy student, what would be the most efficient use of my time when it comes to making investments? I have heard from many people that a mutual fund might be the way to go, as opposed to buying individual stocks that supposedly takes more time and experience.
If I were to go with a mutual fund, would it be a bad idea to choose one with higher risks? At this stage in my life, I am willing to take more risks than I probably will want to in the future.
Thanks!
- solipsist
P.S. Any good online stock brokers out there that may support accounts for minors? <comment><USER2> The usual advice from experts who aren't trying to sell you anything is to go for a stock market index fund with low fees. For example, the Vanguard VTSMX and VFINX are hard to beat. If you picked individual stocks, you would pay more in transaction fees and probably have lower returns -- beating the market is _hard._</comment>


The Algol 60 language report appeared in May 1960 and changed the world - <AUTHOR> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/367236.367262 <comment><AUTHOR> Algol 60 was an interesting language in many respects. It is the mother of nearly all imperative programming languages existing today; it had no data structures, just scalars and arrays; but it introduced block structure and scoping rules; and it was the first language specified using the Backus-Naur- Form (BNF) which is still in use today. I recently wrote a parser for it (on my way to a Simula 67 compiler): [https://github.com/rochus- keller/Algol60](https://github.com/rochus-keller/Algol60).</comment>


Symantec must pay $17M to Intellectual Ventures - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/02/symantec-must-pay-17-million-to-worlds-biggest-patent-troll/

<comment><USER3> _" IV was originally created as a "patent defense fund," getting investment cash from big Silicon Valley companies like Google, Apple, and Cisco. Soon, IV moved its focus to patent enforcement, and the firm is generally disliked in Silicon Valley."_

"Disliked" is certainly an understatement.

It's interesting though, in all of the coverage of Intellectual Ventures nefarious court adventures I've never heard it reported that they started out as a patent defense fund. Is that really true?

<comment><USER4> It may have described itself as a "patent defense fund", and that technically might not have been a lie, with some twisting of the meaning of words. However, what was going on was that people paid IV, and in return got protection from being sued over patents. The only way that can work is either

1\. You are paying to avoid being sued by IV, or

2\. You are paying for IV to protect you from being sued.

In the first case, it's nothing more than a license fee, i.e., paying to avoid enforcement against you. In the second, IV can only protect you by cross- licensing patents or through assertion of its patents, so it's the same as 1 but with the threat against someone else.

To my knowledge 1 was the only thing done in practice, so IV was just like any other non practicing patent-holding entity, except for the "innovation" of aggregating massive amounts of patents all in one place, and claiming to have no interest in actually suing people - instead expecting everyone to happily pay them. I doubt many people actually believed that they would never sue anyone, and indeed, shortly after that claim the lawsuits started.

I don't think there was ever a doubt IV was a patent troll. Just bigger, and with some attempt at good PR.

<comment><USER5> That sounds a lot like racketeering.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Intellectual Ventures is a patent troll. They shouldn't even exist. Laws must ban those organizations that merely collect patents and waiting to sue people. Creativity killing machines!!

<comment><USER7> It really isn't that simple. Inventors need a way to protect their ideas. I think we need to come up with heuristics for lawsuits involving patent infringement like: Companies can only sue for a percentage of the revenue they themselves generated from sale of the product related to the patent. There is no great way to do it. It infringes on an inventors rights to sell their creation which i beleive deeply. However, these fucking patent trolls need to be stopped.

<comment><USER8> _> Companies can only sue for a percentage of the revenue they themselves generated from sale of the product related to the patent._

This would nullify one of the original purposes of the patent: to protect "the little guy" who had his idea stolen. If you come up with a great idea, start to market it, then immediately get it ripped off by a huge corporation that then is only ever on the hook for the tiny amount you managed to make before they stole it, then the "protection" evaporates.

Of course, I don't believe patents should really exist at all (I think there are much better models of protection that don't involve such a clearly exploitable mechanism), but just want to show any time you talk about "fixing" the patent system while still keeping it, most good intentioned solutions quickly end up being more complex than initially thought.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Did Symantec try to challenge the '142 patent during this trial? Has this patent ever been challenged?

There's so much prior art (procmail, sendmail, cc:Mail, UseNet, routing tables, and probably plenty more) I don't see how this patent could survive a challenge.

<comment><USER10> I think it was challenged in this case. Page 6 of the verdict form asks if the '142 patent claims are valid, so presumably the defendant put on an invalidity case. (And it would be rare not to.) The prior art would have to pre-date 1997 and practice each element of the asserted claims, which recite some detail in addition to using "business rules" to distribute email. (Usually, it is this detail that makes the difference.) If anyone is curious, it would be instructive to pull briefing from Pacer, and look for any motions for summary judgement of invalidity for a (relatively) concise summary of that part of the case.

<comment><USER10> Page 29 of the opinion at the following link addresses one of the theories for invalidating the '142 patent. The original patent owner sold the patented product more than a year before filing for a patent, which normally kills your patent. But in this case, they survived on an interesting technicality in this rule, which is that the sale must be in the United States. The court deemed the sale outside the US, and killed the theory. [http://www.ded.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/lps...](http://www.ded.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/lps/2014/march/10-1067.pdf)

The America Invents Act eliminated this technicality back in 2013, but this patent was grandfathered.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> > While jurors sided with Intellectual Ventures, they awarded the patent > holder less than six percent of the $299 million its lawyers sought, > according to a Symantec spokesperson. The verdict form indicates the company > was also asking for ongoing royalty payments, which the jury rejected.

I'm having trouble reconciling $299 million with these patents, which appear to be gigantically obvious. The second patent, US6073142 A, appears to basically be a description of procmail circa 1990. I challenge anyone to figure out where the $299+ million idea was.

<comment><USER12> It's all nonsensical, so try not to stress yourself too hard trying to make sense of it.

This is much like prosecutors filing 68 charges against someone that committed a single crime. They pick the number from the most absurd form of math, which sets the bar high. If they had asked for $15m, the might have gotten only 6% of _that_ , so they start as high as they can, assuming a reduced valuation, because they know the patent is flimsy at best.

The problem is that they got anything at all, which lends validity to absurdly obvious patents with decades of prior art.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'm so sick of software patents. The solution seems pretty simple - <USER2> approval process for software patents should consist of running the idea past three people off of the street. If they say "Well, duh..." in response to being presented with a complex idea like "Method for Storing Phone Number With a Name" or "Method for Buying Something by Clicking On It" then you don't get your freaking patent.

<comment><USER14> You are giving the american public too much credit...

<comment><USER13> Probably. The whole patent system is broken and it is just infuriating to observe the farce. I have simply lost count of all the examples of patents which should never have been granted being used in litigation.

<comment><USER14> Yea, I feel you. I used to live in DC and had a few friend that worked for the patent office. Hearing the stories about how things work internally made me lose all faith in the patent system.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> i wonder how many of you still use non-free virus program on your personal computer

</comment><comment><USER16> This is why I rooted against the Seahawks.</comment>