Dean Karnazes: the man who can run for ever - <AUTHOR> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2013/aug/30/dean-karnazes-man-run-forever <comment><USER2> "but in his entire life he has never experienced any form of muscle burn or cramp"

Having read his book "Ultramarathon man" recently. I grabbed it and here are some quotes:

"My legs throbbing and cramped" ... "Then without warning the quadriceps and calf muscles of both muscles seized in wicked cramps" ... "The cramps were still so severe that..."

I'm gonna stop there, but ctrl-f finds at least 10 more references.

Really shows how far these pseudo-journalists go for a story. The rest of the portrayal of him being some super human is also completely in opposition with his biography.

<comment><USER3> As is typical, he is portrayed as being a genetic freak, someone capable of things nobody else ever could aspire to.

It actually takes away from him. The reality is that many, many people WOULD be capable, if they displayed the level of dedication that he does.

<comment><USER4> Many, many people _are_ and do it all the time right now, every day. There was a video where Scott Jurek talked candidly about Dean a while ago - it was great. The site took it down (or the site is down?) but in a nutshell, Jurek was very super critical of Dean because Dean for goes around like the ambassador and greatest ever athlete in ultrarunning when he's never been one of the top 10. Dean's a pretty great athlete - there's no question about that. But he's only a fraction of the god that he thinks he is or that the media empire he's built around himself makes him out to be.

(for background: Scott Jurek is definitely one of the top ultrarunners of the current generation)

<comment><USER5> "...when he's never been one of the top 10."

Not correct. He has won the Badwater 135 Mile and the Vermont 100 Mile ultras, and has come in fourth place in the Western States 100 Mile (iirc).

Jurek has a more impressive record than Karno as an ultra runner, and a history of being negative about not being as well known as Karno. Karno is a great runner who also wrote a great book and got a lot of people to read it and has a history of being positive and encouraging about everyone running.

Edited to add references:

First place at Badwater 135 Mile, 2004: [http://www.badwater.com/results/index.html](http://www.badwater.com/results/index.html)

First place at Vermont 100 Mile, 2006: [http://vermont100.com/html/2006_results.html](http://vermont100.com/html/2006_results.html)

Fourth place at Western States 100 Mile, 2003: [http://www.wser.org/results/2003-results/](http://www.wser.org/results/2003-results/)

<comment><USER6> Athletes are generally not ranked on the performance in individual events. Aka after wimbledon the #1 men's tennis player is rarely the guy that just won. Simply because individual events are to random and often based around who shows up, what the weather was like etc.

PS: [http://xkcd.com/852/](http://xkcd.com/852/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> There are lots of people who can do what he does; I'm curious how and/or why he gets this kind of press or seems to be the more mainstream example.

Ray Zahab [1], Lizzy Hawker [2], Kilian Jornet, Anton Krupicka and countless other well known (in running circles) and lesser known people (your neighbor) have run just as long or longer and often faster...

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Zahab](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Zahab)

[2] [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens- life/10087146/Lizzy-...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens- life/10087146/Lizzy-Hawker-Somewhere-it-just-became-normal-to-run-14-hours-a- day.html)

<comment><USER8> In the wired article he gives some advice:

"10\. PROMOTE THE HELL OUT OF YOURSELF Before he became Superman, Karnazes was the Clark Kent of the PR world: a humdrum marketing executive at a pharmaceutical company. But in the past three years, he's published a memoir, nabbed a sponsorship from the North Face, appeared on Late Show With David Letterman, and gotten himself on the cover of a handful of magazines. The book and the North Face contract generate enough money to support his family, and the high profile translates into maximum motivation: Failure is scarier when the family income is on the line."

\- [http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/ultraman.html](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/ultraman.html)

<comment><USER7> Its interesting that he is sponsored by tNF, but doesn't seem to run their prime Ultra races, UTMF, UTMB... Perhaps he does San Fran?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I've done a few long endurance events, though never at elite level. That article left me confused.

Aren't most people doing ultra endurance sports performing well below their lactate threshold? As such, its not our lactate threshold that tends to stop us 'going forever'. Once our LT is above a certain point, our limiting factor will something else, such as muscle endurance.

If his unique feature is that he doesn't have a lactate threshold, wouldn't that mean he'd be an ideal sprinter, or middle distance, because he'd be able to go all-out without cramping, rather than an ideal endurance athlete?

<comment><USER10> >> If his unique feature is that he doesn't have a lactate threshold, wouldn't that mean he'd be an ideal sprinter

They never said he was fast

<comment><USER11> If you can sprint slowly for 1600m, you will do pretty well.

<comment><USER12> "sprint slowly"

I must not understand what sprinting is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Reading about ultrarunners is quite fascinating. The angle of the story which is that Dean Karnazes has some kind of magical DNA which lets him do these things effortlessly definitely seems like a misrepresentation.

These guys are amazing athletes but they experience fear and doubt just like everyone else, and don't run these distances effortlessly. Imagine the discipline required to push yourself to your limits for hours or days at a time.

That it is such a taxing endeavor both physically and mentally is what makes it all the more incredible. One of my favorite stories about ultrarunners is the time Scott Jurek ran the Badwater Ultramarathon for the first time.

There were a bunch of reasons it was objectively a terrible idea. Half way through he collapsed vomited and seriously considered giving up. He managed to keep going though and made up a ton of time in the second half of the race and ended up winning and set a course record despite being behind at the half way point: [http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/Seattle-man- amazes-e...](http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/Seattle-man-amazes- everyone-in-135-mile-1178926.php)

<comment><USER14> You reminded me of Cliff Young [0] who won an ultramarathon (544 miles) at the age of 61 in 1983 by not sleeping... it's a tortoise vs hare story tale come true.

[0] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_(athlete)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_\(athlete\))

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> While cool, the article left me wanting more _science._ It suggests that a highly alkaline diet might be related to his performance?! Low body fat? A significant difference in gene expression due to childhood activity?

All of those are topics that I'd love to read about, but the article is very light on details.

<comment><USER16> The article sent me searching for real science. He's a phenom but if he doesn't get tired why isn't he an Olympian?

<comment><USER17> Because he's 51?

<comment><USER16> How about in his 30s then?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> That article is one big landmine for people without the scientific background.

 _Genetics can give you the propensity for a natural advantage but you express your genes differently depending on your environment and your lifestyle._

 _Years of training will improve both your enzymes and mitochondria_

I also thought the lactate buildup comes from _anaerobic_ exercise, which is not what any long-range runner relies on anyway.

(I wonder how you replenish electrolytes, not to mention _energy storage_ , on a multi-day run without eventually getting stomach cramps and other GI issues? From the picture, he already has very little body fat)

<comment><USER19> > That article is one big landmine for people without the scientific > background.

I would have said quagmire, but yes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I love this guy. I can't vouch for his moral character, but I do know that reading his book launched me into a running frenzy that changed my life. I've been running 2-3x/week since, and don't plan on stopping.

</comment><comment><USER21> You see a lot of articles with Dean in them that make him out to be some sort of human anomaly. In all fairness, he's had some great achievements, but he's far from an elite ultramarathoner. Most people can run the distances that he does with the right training. If there was a real "ultramarathon man" it's probably Yiannis Kouros. He holds almost every record over 24 hours. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiannis_Kouros](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiannis_Kouros)

</comment><comment><USER22> "I've run through three nights without sleep and the third night of sleepless running was a bit psychotic. I actually experienced bouts of 'sleep running', where I was falling asleep while in motion, and I just willed myself to keep going."

That sounds quite dangerous. Not only mentally, but I'd be concerned of a sudden lapse of physical control and smashing my skull onto the pavement. Then again, I'd never have to worry about that because I don't have that level of extreme determination. Very impressive.

<comment><USER23> I've experienced sleep running while in the military during training exercises. In one they kept us going for a week on minimal sleep (four hours of "rest" out of every twenty-four). On day four I fell asleep while running in formation at night and woke up 5 or so hours later as I was being roused for my guard rotation.

My "battle buddy" said I didn't behave any differently than usual, just quiet. All told, I blacked out for about a half-hour. My experience wasn't uncommon, I'd say about 10% of us experienced something similar during that particular exercise. The human body is an amazing machine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I'm one of the few that REALLY liked the movie Unbreakable.

This guy reminds me of that movie.

And if so, then I am his Mr. Glass. I pretty much hit my threshold for running when I finish tying my running shoes' laces.

</comment><comment><USER25> Reminds me a bit of Diane Van Deren, who became an ultra-runner after having brain surgery that disrupted her ability to judge the passing of time: [http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab- blog/2011/apr/05/in-r...](http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab- blog/2011/apr/05/in-running/)

</comment><comment><USER26> > _Next, they performed a lactate threshold test. They said the test would > take 15 minutes, tops. Finally, after an hour, they stopped the test. They > said they 'd never seen anything like this before."_

I'm not a biologist, but that seems like a bad reason to stop. He cleared an hour on the test. Why not maintain the test for several hours? Four times the theoretical maximum is not "forever"...

This article seems highly sensational. I'd like to see more science behind this.

</comment><comment><USER16> Fascinating story. Of course the Wired version of the story is a little more sensational. There he does the 30 miles for his 30th birthday drunk in his skivvies.

[http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/ultraman.html](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/ultraman.html)

</comment><comment><USER5> Karno's first book changed my life. After reading the first couple chapters, I had to put it down to go outside and go running that minute. I was soon doing marathons and ultramarathons, and I am still setting new personal records. To put his book into three words: determination equals fun.

</comment><comment><USER27> My favourite ultrarunner is Yiannis Kouros. Look him up. He uses Greek epics to motivate him when he's running. His attitude boils down to: mind over matter. No genetic freak or such bullshit. Willpower and love.

</comment><comment><USER28> Was on this: [http://www.history.com/shows/stan-lees- superhumans/episodes](http://www.history.com/shows/stan-lees- superhumans/episodes)

</comment><comment><USER10> Could he do something like 20,000 pushups in a row as well?

</comment><comment><USER29> This guy is a candidate for _Stan Lee 's Superhumans_. That's an honest-to- goodness mutant power right there.

EDIT: I see he's already been on that show.

</comment><comment><USER30> Shouldn't it be forever and not for ever?

<comment><USER31> "for ever" is consistent with British English usage. It's a UK site.

Edited to add: Sure it's on the "US" section of the Guardian but they don't appear to change any other spellings to match US English.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> What the urss failed to accomplish with highly studied hormones and drugs, California managed by accident with all the pollution in the air and water</comment>


Emptier US roads more lethal in coronavirus pandemic, report says - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52753925 <comment><USER2> Roadway deaths fall 8%, number of miles driven falls 18%, fatalities per mile increases 14%... What is noteworthy about this? Do most accidents occur near intersections or in urban areas rather than on highways? Where is the data on where these accidents happen? There are a lot less people commuting far distances due to the increase in remote work - and now these statistics are based on fewer people taking lower mileage trips. To go to the grocery store, I need to drive 3 miles and I go through 18 intersections. To go to work I'm driving 50 miles and going through 12 intersections. Intersections create scenarios where some vehicles are going 50mph faster than those stopped or turning. With some location data added, would this show that fatalities are higher in areas where there are larger concentrations of vehicles going drastically different speeds? Fender benders on the highway aren't going to cause deaths. Being T-Boned or being hit by someone running a red light....

<comment><USER3> I think you're right that it's the intersections/interactions. I commute ~50mi day across varied roads. The intersections on the "not a totally limited access highway but pretty close" seem to be where most of the stupid stuff happens. It's not any different than the normal stuff but now the speed differentials are higher so stupid has the potential to hurt more.

Most people drive around what's reasonable for the road. Some people drive insanely fast and some people drive whatever the speed limit is, reasonableness be damned. With normal traffic the latter group combined with the sheer volume of cars limit the ability of the two former groups to have large speed differentials with any of the other two groups.

Now with 'rona traffic volumes you've got the people that want to drive 100, weaving around the people who want to do 70-85 while the idiots who think it's acceptable to merge at 30mph less than traffic speed do just that. The net situation is just one unsignaled lane change away from a crash.

That said, I've seen a lot less aggressive passing because the roads are so empty that you get lots of chance to pass people so you don't need to take a crappy one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting: "Anecdotal reports indicate speeding, for example, has increased significantly since traffic diminished. Some states are also moving forward with ill-advised roadway tactics intended to address the COVID-19 pandemic but that could have far-reaching consequences. Among them are repealing requirements for teen drivers to pass road tests before acquiring licenses and relaxing hours of service rules for commercial vehicle drivers."

Summary of the report is here:

[https://www.nsc.org/in-the-newsroom/motor-vehicle- fatality-r...](https://www.nsc.org/in-the-newsroom/motor-vehicle-fatality- rates-jump-14-in-march-despite-quarantines)

And the details are here:

[https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor- vehicle/overview/prelimina...](https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor- vehicle/overview/preliminary-monthly-estimates/)

</comment><comment><USER5> I've witnessed this - folks driving like its a post-apocalyptical world, running lights and stop signs, speeding through empty neighborhoods at double the limit, parking randomly. Aggressive drivers are matched up against distracted drivers - on one trip, two times the light changed and the first car in line sat there for 5 or 10 seconds.

<comment><USER6> My personal observation over the years is congestion is the only thing forcing many people to obey traffic laws. Weekend drivers aren't worse per se, just untethered.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I bet part of this is a selection effect. The most prudent people are staying home as much as possible, so a higher proportion of the miles driven are by people with a predisposition to be reckless.

<comment><USER8> Yes, I would bet this accounts for the vast majority of the effect. Hard to test the theory, though. Maybe look at the driving records of the deceased, see whether the average number of past offenses was also higher.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is exactly my experience. The roads are less populated but I find the percentage of aggressive drivers has sky rocketed. People are weaving in and out, speeding at excessive speeds (100 mph+) and generally being assholes. I don't know why the police aren't patrolling the highways more, because it would be very easy to hand out tickets these days.

<comment><USER10> They are.

"CHP issued 2,493 citations statewide for speeding more than 100 mph, compared to 1,335 last year."

-[https://abc7news.com/chp-coronavirus-stay-home-orders-speedi...](https://abc7news.com/chp-coronavirus-stay-home-orders-speeding-tickets/6124578/)

<comment><USER3> People are now more free to drive whatever speed they find reasonable rather than the speed of other traffic. The long tails of the curve are coming out. There's probably just as many people taking advantage of the ability to comfortably drive below the mean traffic speed we just don't know about them because we don't ticket them so they don't generate data.

<comment><USER11> "...we just don't know about them..."

We also don't care about them nearly as much because it's driving fast that leads to greater injury and death, not driving more slowly.

<comment><USER12> The delta matters, not just the absolute velocity. If people are driving 100, someone driving 50 is a bigger hazard than someone driving 80.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is another example of how often intuitions can be dramatically incorrect. I think most people assumed that roads would be much safer during lockdowns. But there's almost always some extra factor you're not aware of that that changes things.

I try to be skeptical of any of those "obvious" conclusions that come to mind. It helps a lot with programming, where the obvious solution to a problem is often fundamentally wrong. (I'm not always successful at doing that, though.)

</comment><comment><USER14> Personally, when I hopped back in the car after not driving for a month; it felt weird. I think that people are just de-conditioned and less cars on the road gives people false confidence in their atrophied skills.

<comment><USER15> Came here to say this. I've gone from driving multiple times per day to ~3x per month.

I can feel my skills have diminished and it feels like I'm sharing the road with a bunch of aggressive learners permit drivers

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Anecdotally, in India, driving has become more deadlier than usual even if total number of deaths are lower. People are speeding more, since traffic police presence is lower, people are jumping red lights and driving on the wrong sides of the road a lot more. You have to be hyper alert.

</comment><comment><USER17> In Massachusetts, "there were 28 deaths on the state's roadways in April — compared to 27 at the same time last year" despite traffic being 50% lower. The article says 1/3 of the deaths were on interstate highways but doesn't say if the proportion of deaths on highways vs. local roads was abnormal or not.

[https://www.wbur.org/bostonomix/2020/05/04/massachusetts- roa...](https://www.wbur.org/bostonomix/2020/05/04/massachusetts-roadway- deaths-coronavirus)

</comment><comment><USER18> The roads have been extra fun for those of us who enjoy them responsibly. I have seen only a few cases of unusual/dangerous things. I feel like only those with extreme experinces are reporting because of the interest effect. While cities are less busy, many rural areas seem as busy as ever, partly due to increased traffic from people looking to 'get out', is my only interesting observation..

<comment><USER15> > The roads have been extra fun for those of us who enjoy them responsibly.

Hmm, sounds like a paradox

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> On the plus side, we got a new Cannonball Run record: 26 hours across the continent, which works out to an average of 107 mph including stops...

[https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/the-cannonball-run- record-h...](https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/the-cannonball-run-record-has- been-obliterated)

</comment><comment><USER20> A lot of these reports make assumptions that the problem is due to speeding, but they don't contain any data about actual traffic speeds. I would like to see some evidence that the median and 85th percentile speed of traffic has gone up significantly before giving credence to claims that speeding has increased.

<comment><USER21> or some crash analysis. contrary to popular belief, speeding is not actually the leading cause of accidents.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Here is Southern California, I've seen a lot more crazy driving on the freeways. Since there are far less cars, I've seen a lot of people driving 90+ mph during the work week. It's nuts. However the last two weeks here has seen an uptick in traffic, meaning more crowded roads and less of the speeding.

</comment><comment><USER23> Can confirm. After a month of a total lockdown (Poland) some people got more aggressive. After some restrictions got lifted, like entering forests, cycling or jogging, situation is getting more or less normal.

</comment><comment><USER24> I've noticed that people are driving a lot faster on the emptier roads.

</comment><comment><USER25> Theres a post on the front page that says otherwise?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23258858](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23258858)

which is it

<comment><USER26> The explanation is in the first sentence: "Early data indicate a year-on-year 14% jump in fatality rates per distance driven in March, the document by the National Safety Council (NSC) says."

The number of deaths is down, but the deaths per mile are up.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Jaywalking has increased in SF and probably other cities. This contributes to the per-mile death rate.

</comment><comment><USER28> Are empty roads causing people to drive recklessly? Or are the isolation and disruption to people's lifestyles causing it?

<comment><USER29> People are driving like maniacs on what were previously clogged up city streets from what I've seen. Hopefully a novelty that wears off.

And of course there's this: [https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/dekalb- county/90s-film-tv-a...](https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/dekalb- county/90s-film-tv-actress-among-dozens-arrested-street-racing- stunts/H35HJAXD4BBEZGXZJHN7EPWEDQ/)

And this: [https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/atlanta-police-arrest- dozen...](https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/atlanta-police-arrest-dozens-in- street-racing-crackdown)

<comment><USER30> Atlanta's always had a problem with street "racing." Not finish line racing, but fast joy-riding in big groups, especially street bikes.

It's not a novelty.

<comment><USER29> True, but safe to say the frequency is way up as a result of emptier streets.

<comment><USER30> I'd say as a result of boredom.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Sunday drivers 24/7

</comment><comment><USER11> The dimmest among us think it's fun to drive extra fast because there are less cars on the road. States should jack up fines exponentially to try and deter these sociopaths.

<comment><USER32> Atlanta recently worked with multiple jurisdiction to put a stop to street racing which saw a major uptick during the stay at home order.

Georgia along with other states have super speeder laws [1] which throw additional penalties upon the infraction. You can already get charged with reckless driving at high speeds so it all tends to pile on.

Sadly Georgia did [2] online only driver license testing during the initial lock downs but it appears they are going back to actual testing but I don't think it will be as good as before when those being tested would have someone in the car with them

Far too many drivers think they are better than they are but I believe that distracted driving is far worse; Georgia's hands free law resulted in people using window mounts to place phones in their line of sight which is a horrid outcome

auto start video warning [0][https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/44-arrests-29-cars- impounde...](https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/44-arrests-29-cars-impounded- atlanta-street-racing-bust/V5Q7PN66KBHTHO7RTNUGOMZCVI/?_website=cmg-tv-10010)

[1] [https://dds.georgia.gov/reinstatement-faqs-super- speeder](https://dds.georgia.gov/reinstatement-faqs-super-speeder)

auto start video warning [2][https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/driving-road- tests-start-ba...](https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/driving-road-tests-start- back-up-georgia-with-social-distance-changes/FXLPZVHDPJBG5IDBYL672L6H7A/)

<comment><USER33> My suspicion is that it could be curtailed much more effectively by placing (and enforcing) bans on two other habits that make the roads less safe: Passing people on the right, and just hanging out in the left lane.

That said, yeah, screens while driving is a menace. Not just when you have a phone mount. Texting while driving is built into CarPlay as an in-dash infotainment feature that drivers are actively encouraged to use.

<comment><USER34> > "...bans on two other habits..."

we already have a rule to deal with that: move to the right if you're not passing, meaning if you're not going faster than the nearest cars immediately to your right (forward and rearward) or if there are no such cars, then move right one lane. but it's not enforced at all.

drag racing on city roads is clearly reckless and dangerous and should be appropriately penalized (but forgivable with contrition). however, a lot of aggressive driving is frustration at other drivers' lack of consideration (to the rule above, for instance). distracted driving is the biggest (but not only) component of lack of consideration.

active driving simultaneously solves for aggression, inconsideration, and distraction.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> I'm way more scared of cars than the virus. There's no cure for automobiles, but at least there's hope of a vaccine at some point in the future.

<comment><USER36> > I'm way more scared of cars than the virus.

I'm not sure why. The Virus is currently 50x more deadly than cars (in Michigan, for example, about ~100 people die from car accidents each year, but _5,000+ people_ have died from COVID-19 across just half of 2020.)

<comment><USER37> Got me curious. Looks more like ~1,000/yr from car accidents: [https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/DecadeGlanceFatals_38...](https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/DecadeGlanceFatals_382744_7.pdf) (Still less than I would have guessed.)

Also interesting: [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/michigan/michigan....](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/michigan/michigan.htm)

Curious to see how all-cause numbers will be affected.

(data still supports your point - thanks for perspective.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> The other day I went to the office to pick up something and I was finally able to experience the nice banked turn in my commute at full speed. 160kmh with tires at the limit of grip, when most of the days I can barely get 60kmh there. What a pleasure.

<comment><USER39> How considerate of tired emergency workers who would have had to peel you off various surfaces if you exceeded the limit of grip. Go to a track if you want to behave like a child.

<comment><USER38> Can't they just power wash me away?

<comment><USER39> Or just act one on here.. Car accidents happen all the time and rarely does the person who caused it think they were going to cause it. If you had lost people to an idiotic driver in your life maybe you'd see things my way.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What is wrong with man pages? - <AUTHOR> Increasingly, I see projects that install man pages containing only a reference to some other form of documentation. It is frustrating when all I want to do is look up whether I want an upper-case or lower-case Y as a command-line flag.
Am I becoming a grumpy old man?
Which people do this?
Why do they do this?
Am I missing something amazing by tying myself to man pages as the first line of documentation?
Are man pages that hard to write?
Is something lost by complementing this other form of documentation with a proper man page? <comment><USER2> > Which people do this?

The ones that don't use man pages themselves, obviously.

> Why do they do this?

They couldn't fathom that there are people who are working mainly in terminal and don't want to leave it for reading the docs of every single tool they use.

> Am I missing something amazing by tying myself to man pages as the first > line of documentation?

No, not really.

> Are man pages that hard to write?

Not harder than any other form of documentation, but an author needs to actually consider writing one, while HTML is a default form.

What projects exactly you have in mind when ranting about crippled man pages?</comment>


Sprawling Homeless Camps – Modern 'Hoovervilles' - <AUTHOR> https://www.npr.org/2020/01/13/795439405/sprawling-homeless-camps-modern-hoovervilles-vex-california <comment><USER2> Except the people in Hoovervilles wanted jobs. The people you see in homeless camps now are 99% of the time on meth or heroin and mentally ill. I definitely think it's a national disgrace and there needs to be a federal solution, but we're comparing apples and oranges in the headline.</comment>


Mozilla Moving Forward - <AUTHOR> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/14/mozilla-moving-forward/ <comment><USER2> I'm still mad about the Brendan Eich thing. Like, _mad_. I'm totally fine with anybody pursuing whatever kind of political agenda they want, but at the moment you start to derail _real_ progress, the moment you attack one of the best organizations who has literally been busting its ass for the last decade to change the world for no profit...

Well, you declared war. I think this whole debacle should be a rallying cry that we're not going to accept this kind of bullying anymore.

The worst part is, the progressive platform has some really important things to say about the way we live. We're not an equal society yet. We still have more changes we need to make to secure the freedom and happiness of everybody, especially groups that have been historically marginalized.

All the more reason to shut down the bullies who have domineered the narrative, produced nothing but useless bickering, and have sought nothing but divisiveness at every turn in the everlasting quest for more pageviews. I'm looking at you, Gawker.

Don't tolerate this any more. Brendan Eich was just one casualty. It's time to start sticking up for ourselves.

<comment><USER3> And where do you draw the line?

Are you going to defend people that oppose Women's Suffrage too? What about slavery supporters?

These were just political opinions once too. But today you'll find that they get you fired as CEO. And for good reason: blacks and women (and gays) are your customers and employees and business partners.

<comment><USER4> I'm genuinely curious where you would draw your line. Would you support firing Mozilla's CEO if it's revealed he voted for Mitt Romney? What if he gave his campaign $1000?

<comment><USER5> Speaking for myself, I find the idea that a line should be drawn to be downright antithetical.

What I support is individual liberties. Which means that it doesn't necessarily matter whether or not I support something. Individuals and organizations are generally free to do what they want, including being free to do things I don't like, and vice versa.

Meaning:

      1. Brendan Eich was perfectly free to make political contributions.

      2. He was perfectly free to say whatever he wants about the issue in public.

      3. People who don't mind are perfectly free to not care.

      4. People who do mind are perfectly free to complain loudly.

      5. People who do mind are free to walk away from the company.

      6. Companies are free to respond to the above according to their interests.

Yes, the upshot of all of this is that the court of public opinion can feel like a meat grinder sometimes. But as far as I'm aware there's not necessarily anything you can do about that without resorting to curtailment of some of our most sacred human rights.

<comment><USER6> How's that different from lynching? Or McCarthyism?

<comment><USER7> Well it's kind of obvious how it'd different from lynching, I hope.

I'm not so sure how it's different from McCarthyism though.

"The Company is infested with homophobes. I have here in my hands a list of names that were made known to the Board as being contributors to and members of anti-gay organizations and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the Company..."

McCarthy's "speech" wasn't illegal either. It's not a crime to inquire of people whether they were or were not a Communist.

And before you comment that _this_ is different, but of a gay person's moral rights, keep in mind that Communists actually _were_ on a designed program of the violent overthrow of capitalist societies in order to bring about international Communism.

To protect gay marriage, a first step is to defend the very legal framework that would make gay marriage possible in the first place, which is what McCarthy actions were (when taken at face value).

<comment><USER8> I think you draw the wrong lesson from McCarthyism.

If McCarthy had only gone after people that were actually trying to violently overthrow the US government and/or working for Stalin, history would look at him a lot differently. There were Soviet spies and they did a fair bit of damage. However, the people on his list were not in fact spies or communists and there was no good reason for him to believe they were.

<comment><USER9> So the only thing wrong with McCarthyism was accuracy?

<comment><USER8> No I wouldn't say that. Other problems included: too broad a definition of communist, guilt by association, the demand for loyalty oaths, and an unwillingness to take into account ideological changes over time.

However, I strongly disagree with the notion that there was no problem at all with people working for the State Department, the Army, or even in major media outlets, who actively supported, and were working towards, the violent overthrow of the US government in favor of a dictatorship of the proletariat.

If we look at the Eich situation, there were few concerns about accuracy, no guilt by association, and Eich had ample opportunity to disclaim his prior views/actions but declined to do so. So we are left with only the core question of whether or not there is something wrong with keeping avowed communists or bigots out of public positions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> People who are going to comment on this blog post need to realize how disturbing this episode has been for Mozillians.

We are talking about a small group of people, a couple thousands at best, that work with limited resources to keep the web open for everybody.

When this tidal wave hit Mozillians, the base contributors and employees who spend most of their days in code and features, we lost focus of our work, and stepped into a world of politics that most of us dislike, and are uncomfortable to navigate.

I believe Chris Beard is a true Mozillian, as is Brendan Eich. And I am glad that we can refocus on our mission, and move forward. I just wish people can put their differences aside, accept each other's beliefs, and share code!

<comment><USER11> "Accepting each other's beliefs" seems like a simple solution, but it has a very problematic result. To LGBT Mozillians, this becomes "you must respect beliefs that say that you are a second-class citizen."

No one should feel like they must respect beliefs that devalue their person.

<comment><USER12> Why not? Religious people get ridiculed all the time, people drink and eat pork around Muslims, and yet somehow they fit in fine.

And being a member of a religion isn't always a choice, being that usually you're born into it and your name identifies you as such.

<comment><USER13> By implication, are you saying that being homophobic is not a choice?

<comment><USER12> I'm saying that if you're named Mohammed people will make certain assumptions about your beliefs your whole life, and will treat you differently.

<comment><USER13> Well, some people may do that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> There is a stark contrast with how Drew Houston of Dropbox defended Condi Rice vs Mozilla's lack of effort in defending someone that instrumental part of what Mozilla is today.

[https://blog.dropbox.com/2014/04/our-commitment-to-your- righ...](https://blog.dropbox.com/2014/04/our-commitment-to-your-rights-and- privacy/)

His pointed response is short and stern. "We're honored to have Dr. Rice join our board"

Mozilla's was apologetic.

"We didn't act like you'd expect Mozilla to act. We didn't move fast enough to engage with people once the controversy started. We're sorry. We must do better."

If Drew is the chairman of Mozilla, he would said. "In 16 years that Eich was in leadership position in Mozilla, he welcomed and worked with everyone with different personal beliefs, religious values, and sexual orientation. We are honored to have the creator of Javascript as our CEO". End of story.

<comment><USER15> You can't really compare Dropbox and Mozilla. They don't have the same structure, they don't have the same goals, they don't attract the same kind of leadership or employees, they don't have the same people pulling the strings, etc etc.

<comment><USER16> So apparently being a war criminal is a lot better than donating $1000 to Prop 8? The world would be a better place if instead of Eich, Rice resigned.

<comment><USER15> Re-read my comment. I'm not saying it's better at all; just that you can't compare the two (and saying "If Houston had been at Mozilla..." is nonsensical).

The kind of people involved with Mozilla, and the kind of structure Mozilla aspires to be, makes it logical for them to dismiss their CEO in the way they did.

The kind of people involved with Dropbox, and the kind of structure Dropbox aspires to be, makes it logical for them to defend their board of directors choice and not back down.

 _(FWIW I have deep disgust for some of the actions taken by both Rice and Eich.)_

<comment><USER17> Has Eich done anything else besides donating to Prop 8? It might just be me, but the way I'm parsing the postscript is that both Rice AND Eich have multiple actions that invoke disgust. Or is it that Eich's one action is on an equal level with any one of Rice'smultiple actions?

<comment><USER18> Three major points.

1\. Eich's action had no complexity or other goals. Eich supported something where the SINGULAR purpose was to strip a class of people of a right they had only recently acquired. There was no complexity to it, no shades, it wasn't as part of his duties, it wasn't as part of a team, it wasn't as something he was forced into, it wasn't something he regretted. 2\. Mozilla isn't Dropbox 3\. CEO isn't Board Member.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> To me, one of the saddest things about this whole episode was the fact that Brendan Eich was a true technical leader. His contributions literally helped create and define the modern internet. I believe he was well positioned to help move Mozilla beyond simply being a browser company/nonprofit org, and advance the Mozilla mission of bringing openness and innovation to the web.

Rust, ASM.js, and Firefox OS are some of the biggest projects at Mozilla and are critical areas that have to be executed well for Mozilla to gain traction in the mobile device world and beyond. I thought that Brendan Eich's background uniquely qualified him to guide Mozilla over the next few years in maturing these technologies into something that can help disrupt the trend of "walled-garden" web ecosystems. I was and still am really rooting for Mozilla to succeed in these efforts, because the web needs them to. Sadly Brendan Eich is now gone from Mozilla and along with him goes a wealth of knowledge, history, and experience that would undoubtedly have helped advance the cause of a free and open internet.

All that said, I don't know as much about Chris Beard's history as I did Brendan's, and I don't know if he can provide the same level of technical leadership in these areas that Brendan Eich could have. I suppose we will find out. I remain hopeful, but not yet optimistic.

</comment><comment><USER20> Mozilla's mission is vital and they have been very successful overall. Much of the credit must belong to Mitchell Baker, Brendan Eich, and others who led the organization until now but I'm starting to be concerned about the leadership's future, a future that is important to everyone -- I'd much rather lose almost any software company than lose Mozilla.

* Why do they appear to have difficulty finding a long-term CEO? Appointing the founder/CTO (edit: and after a long search and many short-term leaders) raises the possibility that either they couldn't find a willing external candidate or that there was conflict between the founders and the board. Which leads to ...

* Why do they appear to have difficulty finding board members? Even 5 seemed too few for such an important non-profit; to have 3 resign with only 1 replacement ready seems alarming.

* The PR of Eich's appointment, transition, and the political issue was poorly managed; Mozilla looked badly managed and the brand was damaged. The image of the organization is a responsibility for the CEO and, when hiring a new CEO, for the board. Even if the political issue never arose, losing a 3 of 5 board members when a new CEO is appointed looks bad no matter what public explanations are given. The appearance was that only 2 people supported the new CEO and one was his co-founder (again, appearances can be deceiving but managing them is essential).

These signs look worrying to me, but you'll notice that I wrote a lot about appearances -- I don't know the inside of Mozilla (I've participated at a low level for many years and have a sense of the culture and a few personalities, but that's all) nor do I know how to run a major non-profit or major open source project. Maybe someone here knows more.

<comment><USER21> > * Why do they appear to have difficulty finding a long-term CEO?

I can't speak for the board here, but lack of stock options and the like probably has something to do with it.

I expect that it's also difficult to find a CEO that is willing to operate in the sort of environment described in [http://blog.finette.com/on- mozilla](http://blog.finette.com/on-mozilla) (see the quote from John Lilly in there). This extends to broader culture fit issues: finding a CEO who would be a good culture fit for Mozilla's stance on openness and the like may not be simple.

<comment><USER20> I recently saw John Lilly's presentation to WordCamp ~2009. Truly amazing and inspiring how you guys operate.

I understand many people seek big financial returns and others might have difficulty with the culture, but for anyone in the non-profit world or with the mission-oriented motivation, it's hard to imagine a better opportunity to change the world. If I had the skills I would leap at it.

<comment><USER22> There's more ways to contribute than just writing code. ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I'm still rather disappointed in Mozilla's handling of the issue. I've since gone back to using Chrome, and away from thunderbird as well. Free speech is important to me; more important even than using and supporting open source software, which is pretty important to me. Someone's personal life, and their professional life, should be able to be kept separate, and the fact that they dragged out his political support of Proposition 8 into his professional life is a clear violation of free speech. If the issue were so important, why did they choose him as CEO in the first place? Instead, they created an obvious and blatant attack against his character for his own beliefs which had absolutely nothing to do with his day to day work, particularly given that he was a great leader, technologist, and could have brought Mozilla to the next step technologically.

Would I support a member of the KKK, or any other known "hate" group? It is their right of speech, and they are still free to have it, so long as it is not in a manner of defamation (such as slander, or libel), which looks much more like how Mozilla responded.

<comment><USER24> Whose free speech was violated? Free speech doesn't mean the freedom from consequences or criticism. It means the exact opposite! He's free to speak as he likes and donate as he likes, and everyone else is free to exercise their _own_ rights to free speech. That's how it freaking works.

There's no right to be a CEO, either. I wouldn't dispute a racist's right to speak as they like, but free speech doesn't mean turning a blind eye to bigotry and prejudice. Views are not somehow exempt from criticism just because they are sincerely held.

<comment><USER25> Erm no... if you have to be afraid for your job, your career prospects, your house or your family then your have NO free speech, no matter what some paper somewhere says.

Economic pressure was used to great success in (socialistic) countries like mine to curtail free speech (even though there was a "free speech" law). And it looked exactly like this - if you had an unpopular opinion, you'd just be marked as "unfit for leadership position", "unfit for advancement", "we cannot have someone going to church as our CEO", your children would get scholarship denied, etc.

You know... consequences. The definition of free speech is the ability to voice political opinion without fear. Haven't you learned anything from cold war?

<comment><USER24> Is he afraid for his house and family? Mind you, I believe death threats in _any_ situation are unwarranted and despicable. This is not the least bit unique to Eich's situation. It's a much larger problem we as a society have yet to address.

The analogy to socialism is vastly overstating the problem, and a cheeky way to deny Eich's critics' freedom of criticism. A sincerely held belief is not a shield against criticism, and free speech isn't absolute. It never has been.

The fact is that free speech means people are free to disagree en masse when they find a view abhorrent. A pro-slavery, misogynist, racist, or anti- interracial-marriage individual has a right to their views. They don't have a right to avoid social censure when their views are beyond the pale. And that's exactly what happened here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Most importantly, Chris Beard has correct views on today's political hot button issues.

</comment><comment><USER27> I tweeted in praise of Mozilla's support of the web a few days after he resigned and was asked in a response if Mozilla helped support my preferred bigotry. While I don't disagree with the criticism of Brendan Eich, it has gone a little far when my praise of Mozilla's support of the open web got me labeled a bigot (IMHO I am not). Making a correlation like this is wrong and can only hurt even a good cause.

<comment><USER28> Consider yourself lucky you were just called a bigot. Some of us (not me) received death threats.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Unfortunately, the reality is that one of the first questions they probably asked Chris when vetting him for interim CEO is "Are you or have you ever been an opponent of same-sex marriage?"

</comment><comment><USER30> Time to see Chris Beard's track record for contributions.

<comment><USER4> Let's not. I think the folks who feel someone's political actions and views are a good reason to shun or punish them are wrong. I don't care what you're for or against: If you participate non-violently in a political debate and don't let your views interfere with your work, including how you treat your coworkers, I'm happy to work with you or for you. Or grab a beer with you and try to change your mind.

<comment><USER12> Why not? They already burned Eich at the stake, why not apply the same scrutiny to everyone?

<comment><USER31> If by burned at the stake you mean rightly called out questionable contributions that flies in the face of respecting LGBT Mozilla employees and then deciding not to say anything about it or make an apology, then yes he was burned at the stake.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> "Moving Forward" is my least favorite management euphemism.

<comment><USER33> Agreed, although I've heard "going forward" a lot more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> This is a pretty massive change.

Eich was technology/standards focused. Someone from the product/marketing side is ok as long as they get Mozilla is really a technology product company (business and marketing is easier when technology/products are the base focus and you don't lose developers targeting the platform).

I am a little concerned that a switch was flipped at Mozilla when the former Chief Marketing Officer is now CEO over the CTO previously. Granted the new CEO has been around the company a while and oversaw Firefox is helpful, I just hope they keep the technology/standards as their base focus. I feel many of the things I love Mozilla for, asm.js most recently, may not be as focused as before. Also, I lost a ton of respect for Mozilla for throwing a founder under the bus.

<comment><USER35> > I feel many of the things I love Mozilla for, asm.js most recently, may not > be as focused as before.

Chris Beard is the most technical person who's now marketing-focused I know. A little-known fact: he wrote the first prototype of the Firefox themes feature (formerly known as Personas).

<comment><USER34> Information is thin on him so this is great to hear. I am still hopeful for the webgl/asm.js revolution that they are doing and hope it continues in force.

<comment><USER36> It's also an interim appointment. My understanding is that he's not expected to be CEO for a long time.

Some tidbits about Chris:

* He's a former Linux kernel hacker.

* In the 90s he started a company that, among other things, ported Linux to the PA RISC.

* He worked for HP and helped start up their Linux division.

* He was Mozilla VP of Products for three years before becoming CMO.

He has deep tech skills and deep product/marketing skills. Indeed, the board had been considering inviting him to join them (on the board) for some time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Can anyone proffer an opinion on Chris Beard as the new CEO? Is he a good choice, or should this remain an interim position? I don't know anything about him.

<comment><USER36> He's been a part of Mozilla for a long time. He was CMO among many other roles. He's a smart guy and good at handling difficult situations. I think it's a solid choice. It does sound like it's definitely planned to be an interim choice, though.

Fun story: my one personal interaction with Chris was a few years ago. I had learnt that the McAfee Site Advisor add-on was causing Firefox to leak the JavaScript contents of _every single page you visited_! This was _bad_.

I was incensed, and I wrote a blog post entitled "McAfee is killing us" ([https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2012/02/16/mcafee-is- ki...](https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2012/02/16/mcafee-is-killing- us/)). Chris was CMO and got rather upset with me for my undiplomatic choice of wording. And understandably so; he didn't want a loud-mouthed engineer triggering some kind of Mozilla vs. McAfee story in the tech press.

Fortunately nothing much came of it, publicity-wise. It's worth noting that I offered to take the post down, and he said not to, which is why you can still read it today.

Best of all, we did find a way to prevent that leak -- one which many add-ons triggered variations of -- and it shipped in Firefox 15 ([https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2012/07/19/firefox-15-p...](https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2012/07/19/firefox-15-plugs- the-add-on-leaks/)).

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I like how the board continues to take no responsibility for the situation they created. Right or wrong that Eich was fired, this was a foreseeable event; Eich's prior contribution was well-known.

This whole thing really doesn't make me feel good about Mitchell Baker or Reid Hoffman.

</comment><comment><USER38> also read: [http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2014/04/12/earth-to- mozilla...](http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2014/04/12/earth-to-mozilla-come- back-to-us/)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7584900](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7584900)

was on HN homepage earlier in the day.

</comment><comment><USER6> I'm against what happened to Brendan Eich too -- for the reasons it happened. His personals opinions and political ideas, even if he was a card-carrying NRA member slash confederate flag bearering bigot, should be his own.

But (and I'm only half kidding) I'm actually in favor of sacking him for his incompetence, for so many years, to bring bloody ES6 to a final standard and into our browsers.

When HTML5 progressed so fast in so few years, and things like CSS Animations, Canvas, WebGL, etc also moved on, heck, even when IE picked up steam, the glacial pace of Javascript looks really unacepptable, and a throwback to the bad old days of W3C dragging its feet.

</comment><comment><USER39> #uninstallfirefox

</comment><comment><USER40> It makes solid sense for a company to choose a leader, the person who sets the tone and communicates to the public, partners, and stakeholders for it, who reflects the values of the organization and its stakeholders.

Mozilla stands, among other things, for freedom both online and off.

Eich certainly has technical chops, and has contributed, technically, to both Mozilla and the Web. There's no doubt about that.

His personal values, as reflected through his public political actions, were an extremely poor fit. In his prior role as CTO this wasn't as significant an issue (though it could likely have emerged eventually). As CEO there's simply no question that they were polarizing and distracting to the extreme. _Especially_ in light of how he addressed the controversy once it emerged.

Quite bluntly: he wasn't up for the job.

I'm not saying this as a GLTBQ individual, or someone with an unblemished record myself on this (attitudes have changed tremendously over the several decades I've been aware that alternative sexual orientation is a thing) or other issues. It's a reflection of contemporary moral values -- and I absolutely believe that there's a large room for movement in such values.

If you want to reflect on that for a while, I'd recommend James Burke's _The Day the Universe Changed_ , which addresses beliefs. The first and last programmes in the series address this particularly episodes 1 and 10, which reflect specifically on how beliefs have changed over time.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Universe_Changed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Universe_Changed)

If nothing else, this is a mark of just how far we've gone from beating up faggots for lols (not that this doesn't still happen) -- even under cover of law (Stonewall and similar events), if not without sanction or consequence for those so engaged.

For those who are suggesting that Eich was singled out where others more deserving haven't been: Mozilla proved itself to be more susceptible and responsive to moral suasion and pressure. There are plenty of companies (and other organizations) exhibiting poor moral character: Dropbox's appointment of someone widely regarded as a war criminal to its board, ongoing boycotts against Chick-fil-A, growing actions against the Koch brothers and the industrial and political network they control, campaigns I recall against Nestle, Carl's Jr., grape growers, and other causes.

The fact is that moral and market pressures _can_ work, and in a world in which enterprises far too often disclaim all but the smallest shreds of moral responsibility, they're often one of the few effective tools available.

So while I do feel a slight bit of sympathy toward Eich (he was caught up in changing times), I applaud the action and result.

</comment><comment><USER41> Imagine: when they were looking for the next CEO, the first question was: does he/she support gay-marriage?

</comment><comment><USER42> Bullying goes both ways. Hilarious how some people are trying to justify this.

</comment><comment><USER43> I stopped using Firefox because it's gotten really buggy in the last couple of months, not because Brendan Eich stupidly voiced his opinion in a debate he should have seen he was on the losing side of a long time ago.

<comment><USER36> What are the bugs?

One option is to try resetting Firefox: [https://support.mozilla.org/en- US/kb/reset-firefox-easily-fi...](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/reset- firefox-easily-fix-most-problems)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> can't understand why this story is ranked at 1

</comment><comment><USER12> Well, Firefox is first of all quite inferior to Chrome. Worse JS performance, worse stability, worse interface and worse Cloud sync and features. The only reason to possibly use it was openness and their motto.

With them refusing to stand up for Brendan Eich and his right to his own personal opinions, which it's clear he never brought to work with him, I no longer think they have any moral high ground. I know I'm done with Firefox, and none of this is good PR, and they were losing tons of market share before...</comment>


What Defines the Ruby Community? - <AUTHOR> http://storytotell.org/articles/2008/11/20/what-defines-the-ruby-community

<comment><USER2> People who use the Ruby programming language. That was easy, next.

<comment><USER3> I read it was dead. [http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2008/02/the_ruby_communi...](http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2008/02/the_ruby_community_is_dead_lon.html)</comment></comment>


USDA identifies some of the mysterious, unsolicited seeds - <AUTHOR> https://www.usatoday.com/5555404002 <comment><USER2> I actually got some. They definitely looked like cabbage seeds. The label said they came from a nearby city, but otherwise was identical to mail labels from China. That, to me at least, suggests that they send them over in bulk to a warehouse first before splitting them out of their containers and mailing them locally.

It was super curious because I kept getting emails about package tracking, and that there was a delay because of a routing problem. Eventually the package arrived and I was not exactly excited when I spent the afternoon comparing them to a seed catalog to identify what they were.

It was a fun mystery adventure figuring out what they were, so there is that. Of course I won't be planting them. I burned them to ensure they'll never sprout.

</comment><comment><USER3> This link doesn't work. Full link is [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/31/usda-i...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/31/usda- identifies-some-seeds-appear-sent-china/5555404002/) and [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/31/555540...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/31/5555404002/) is the shortest variation I could get to work.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you keep elderly parents from getting scammed? - <AUTHOR>

I'm thinking specifically about phone scams -- is there any technology you use to keep the scammers at bay?
But also more generally: What methods do you use to keep elderly parents/relatives from being taken advantage of?
Are there any tech companies that are trying to address this issue? <comment><USER2> Short of taking control of their finances, you can't. Scammers are professionals and in the field of scams everyone else is an amateur. Technology can't address the issue that the skills of scammers are primarily social [1]. That's why scammers say they are Nigerian princes. [2]

The best you can do is to maintain a good open relationship. Maybe calling your mom today will help.

Good luck.

[1] the big boys like Google and Microsoft and Facebook etc. are handling a lot of _potential_ technical online scamming.

[2] [http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=1677...](http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=167713)

</comment><comment><USER3> There's a YC for that[http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/01/yc-start-up-true-link- finan...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/01/yc-start-up-true-link-financial-is- out-to-help-the-elderly-avoid-scammers-with-pre-paid-visa-cards/)

Personally I find online scams more difficult to deal with. I've installed ad block plus and malwarrbytes, but blog spam inevitably gets to my parents.

</comment><comment><USER4> You also have to watch out for your parent's alma maters. My Mom, 85 years old and cognitively impaired, gets multiple calls during the year asking for donations. They know she's old when they ask for her by name and class year.

</comment><comment><USER5> They can do the same thing I do with phone calls - "I do not conduct business over the phone. Please send me a letter."

Legit businesses will send you a letter, as well as legit financial or legal matters. Scams, telemarketers, and most sales folk will just not contact you again.

Once your parents do get letters, they can have someone help to look things over.

</comment><comment><USER6> My dad just told me his computer is running awfully slow.

I bet he clicked on every single attachment that comes via email.

He is in another country - but luckily he does not do any online banking.</comment>


Tesla Model S For $500 Per Month? No.  Just No. - <AUTHOR> http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1083324_tesla-model-s-for-500-per-month-no-just-no

<comment><AUTHOR> These people are overly pessimistic.

1) Anyone buying a Model S is going to be living in SFBA, maybe LA, maybe Seattle, maybe DC or NYC-metro. A few other places. All very near the service centers.

2) $5 gas isn't that far off -- I pay $4.29/gal right now. $5 is quite reasonable over the next 6 years.

3) $100/hr for fueling isn't always reasonable, but there are definitely times (raining, late at night, etc.) where I'd be happy to not have to fuel at a sketchy gas station.

</comment><comment><USER2> $200,000 a year . . . buy Model S in cash . . . are people really comfortable spending more than half of their annual take-home on a car? I feel like I would not be.</comment>


Create Dim, Min, Maj, & Aug music chords with HTML5 & jQuery - <AUTHOR> https://audiofile.cc/welcome/chordbuilder

<comment><USER2> If I were going to start a project to map elements of a musical score to HTML5 custom attributes, I would probably start with something like Lilypond, which has a convenient formal specification:

[http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/in...](http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/index.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, someone else from the WHATWG mentioned lilypond. I intend to look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.

<comment><USER2> No problem, and good luck. I started a number of music-language projects that rarely made much progress, usually because I got frustrated after recognizing my design had some fundamental flaw that made it particularly hard to express something important. In retrospect, if I had known about Lilypond I'd have started there.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, I can see that checking out Lilypond is in my future. ;-]

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Given that all of the graphic elements needed exist as Unicode, and that there exists code to detect specific fonts on the viewers machine, I'd like to see them used as the default rather than the somewhat sketchy drawings as shown. Just a suggestion...

<comment><AUTHOR> I just got home from lunch and have already implemented a new bass clef with unicode characters. This was an absolutely great idea! Thanks!!! :-D

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Check out vextab/vexflow, no need to re-invent the wheel. It's a complete (and open source) framework for music/tab notation:

<http://vextab.com/>

<comment><AUTHOR> I've not seen this before. Very cool! Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Hey @cgcardona, this is really cool, but the 'fork me on github' tag in the corner doesn't really work well on Webkit browsers.

With the latest chrome, you can't see "fork me on github" - only "cause i rock" backwards - this is a known bug with reverse css but is easy to work around.

In Safari v5, you can see 'fork me on github' but it disappears on mouseover.

Very cool demo though.

<comment><AUTHOR> @tjarratt, Thanks! Yeah the corner github tag is looking pretty bad in FF also. I guess I need to redesign that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I can't get it to work - none of the examples in fact. I'm running Chrome Mac Dev Channel (v13.0.782.4). Clicking any of the buttons causes nothing to happen whatsoever.

One error is shown, when a button is DOUBLE-clicked (does not appear on single click), in the output console: "Error in event handler for 'undefined': Error: INDEX_SIZE_ERR: DOM Exception 1"

<comment><AUTHOR> I've seen it work in FF4, Chrome 12, Opera 11.11, Safari 5, Android 2.2, iPad and iPod touch but I've not tested it in Chrome 13. I guess I should :-/

Thanks for the bug report. Much appreciated.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Quite cool, but having a "play" button seems like a must for a site like that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed 100%. play(), pause(), stop(), and a whole suite of functions are in the works. ;-]

<comment><USER5> Please post an update (or link to a blog post or something) when you do add this. It would be great to see that functionality working.

<comment><AUTHOR> Confirmed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> You forgot to account for the ledger line for middle C.

<comment><AUTHOR> Initially I had the middle C line showing up all the time but that is incorrect and made the music had to read. My intention is to make the middle C ledger intelligent enough to only show up when a note is sitting directly on it.</comment></comment>


YC S15 invites will be sent out today - <AUTHOR>

As the invites (or rejections) will land in 1000s of inboxes today, 3% will be seen packing their bags for the interview and others will get back to building their startups.
Let's do one thing - the 97% who won't get the chance of interview will post their product's homepage and demo URL in this thread so that we all can provide crowd-feedback to them.
The happier 3% are also invited to share their products/demo as well.
Let's do it, then? <comment><USER2> Apparently they invite about 10% of the applicants for the interviews (I've read somewhere last year they had 5k applications and 400 interviews). This obviously must depend on the number of applications.

</comment><comment><USER3> Great idea, this will really encourage the ones who didn't make it to this round. An awesome community can be built this way too!

</comment><comment><USER4> Exciting, going to be a long nervous night.

<comment><AUTHOR> Exactly. Invites are sent sometime around 6pm PDT.

Fingers crossed.

<comment><USER2> A partner at YC just said on another HN thread that invites will be sent at midnight PT. reply

<comment><AUTHOR> Midnight PDT of April 10 has already passed.

Or did he mean midnight of April 11th? Not sure.

<comment><USER5> katm (Kat Manalac, I guess) YC Partner said midnight about 1h ago. So that would be in 10 hours. Good luck!</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


The 2008 Malware Challenge - <AUTHOR> http://blog.flexilis.com/2008/12/the-2008-malware-challenge/

<comment><USER2> I really like the idea of having challenges that utilize real world examples of malware in a controlled environment. Hopefully this will help drive security and defensive technology to innovate faster - it's a tough battle.</comment>


Show HN: Zero latency networked snake game - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/tomarrell/snake <comment><AUTHOR> G'day folks!

I built a zero client-perceived latency snake game that runs remotely, supporting concurrent players.

Specifically this is implemented using the "validator" adapter. The idea is that the server delivers a signed token to the client including the positions of the fruits, and the starting position of the snake. The client must then record its tick movements (x, y) until it reaches one of the fruit. These are then sent back to the server, which instantaneously runs the given simulation to check that all moves are legal. This process then repeats with a newly generated fruit and token.

You can see a demo of this functionality on my site: [https://tomarell.com](https://tomarell.com)</comment>


Ridiculous User Interfaces In Film, and the Man Who Designs Them - <AUTHOR> http://gizmodo.com/5418342/ridiculous-user-interfaces-in-film-and-the-man-who-designs-them <comment><USER2> There's something that always amuses me in movies and series: something happened/is about to happen, a taskforce is created and they're running software very specific to that thing right away, with graphics, simulations, etc.

Who writes all that? No one ever mentions the programmers that save the day.

</comment><comment><USER3> The real portfolio url was on HN two days ago. <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=971844> and the link: <http://blog.coleran.com/category/portfolio/screendesign>

<comment><USER4> And a post was up on rockpapershotgun this monday: [http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/11/30/tapitty- tapitty-t...](http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/11/30/tapitty-tapitty- tapitty-on-screen-computing)

Who started all this one may wonder.

<comment><USER5> I think he did an AMA on reddit two months ago: [http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9lsp2/i_create_those_f...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9lsp2/i_create_those_fake_fbi_screens_and_crime/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I have to disagree on the ridiculous part. They are all busy and dense, but they are not ridiculous per se when detached from the movie they came from.

Sometimes, you have to convey a very large amount of information in a very confined space. The glass-cockpits in planes are a good example - very dense displays that require some training to use.

And, once it works, there is little reason not to make it look cool.

<comment><USER7> Some of the best interfaces I have written have been in good old-fashioned curses. If you need a "dashboard" for a complex system for a skilled operator, you can convey an awful lot of information in a maximized xterm on a 1280x1024 screen, it's dense but it's not "cluttered" if you lay it out and use colour intelligently.

<comment><USER6> Sure, bit it's useful to convey some information in graphical form. Many of the constructs he employs (progress circles, use of color gradients to indicate data age) are really good.

The main point being, complex data doesn't have to look ugly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Funny. The German in the Bourne Identity UIs is full of errors and fake words. Then again, it is still a lot better than the "German" spoken by Nazis in Hollywood movies.

<comment><USER6> _ACHTUNG!_

ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS! DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN. IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS. ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkenlights>

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> However, the user interface of the Sentry Gun the marines used in Aliens II was very realistic: <http://www.inetres.com/gp/sf/aliens/sentry02.jpg>

<comment><USER10> Dead link...

<comment><USER9> Really? For me it still works.

Anyway, I've made a mirror copy:

ftp://motoom.net/pictures/alien-sentry02.jpg

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> If you want an overly complicated and busy (with no regard to usability) UI, just go for Enlightenment ;)

In other regards, I like the choice of Ulrich Schnauss on his film reel. Big fan. Good coding 'tunes.

<comment><USER12> I love Enlightenment. Used to show it off to friends during presentations just for kicks. ;)

Other than that it's pretty usable, though takes a while getting used to.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> A much more interesting user interface used in a movie was developed by Oblong (see John Underkoffler). I am talking about Minority Report ;) They are making it into a real UI.

Check it out : www.oblong.com

</comment><comment><USER14> Did this guy do an IAmA on Reddit: [http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9lsp2/i_create_those_f...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9lsp2/i_create_those_fake_fbi_screens_and_crime/) ?

</comment><comment><USER15> I'm looking forward to Iron Man 2. Teaser: <http://mahoski.s3.amazonaws.com/ironman-big.jpg>

<comment><USER16> I really enjoyed the UI stuff in Ironman. It was futuristic to be sure, but a lot of it struck me as interfaces that, given the technology, a brilliant inventor might actually use. And I'm pretty sure there was an implementation of tabs, pads, and boards ([http://design.cca.edu/graduate/uploads/pdf/IA_PARC_Ubicomp.p...](http://design.cca.edu/graduate/uploads/pdf/IA_PARC_Ubicomp.pdf)) going on there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> The guy who made the interface for Minority Report is actually commercializing it. <http://vimeo.com/user922585>

</comment><comment><USER18> I often think that UI's for some real software should be closer to film depictions, not the other way around.</comment>


Buffer Overflows in a few of the prospective SHA-3 algorithms (including MD6). - <AUTHOR> http://blog.fortify.com/blog/fortify/2009/02/20/SHA-3-Round-1

<comment><USER2> I don't understand why this keeps getting passed around.

Buffer overflows in the hash reference implementations have zero relevance on the algorithm's hashing effectiveness. Fortify posted the results of their static analysis tool to the web as an academic exercise and PR stunt.

That it continues to propagate the web is merely amplifying the FUD.

<comment><USER3> The article does not use the buffer overflows to conclude anything about the algorithm -- it concludes that writing software that manages memory correctly is very difficult. This is why you should all stop using C, and people should stop telling other people to use C.

(Anything I would use C for, I now use Haskell for. Everything runs as fast, and the language and libraries are much better.)

<comment><USER4> That's nice. Almost nobody _is_ using C anymore --- especially for the web apps we talk about here. But everyone drops to native code for encoding/decoding; in Python, Perl, or Ruby, you're calling OpenSSL to get your crypto primitives, an OpenSSL is gnarly C code.

<comment><USER5> No one is using C anymore, except for trivial things like kernels, database systems, and VMs.

<comment><USER4> RDBMS's seem like the next likely C stronghold to fall; they're I/O bound and feature-laden.

<comment><USER6> Isn't there a lot of pointer arithmetic in RDBMS land?

<comment><USER3> Well, it's written in C. That's what everything written in C does.

<comment><USER6> My point was that database performance goes far beyond "waiting for the disk." The data is laid out in specific ways with specific widths, there are decades of implementation experience behind making queries and inserts fast because of this.

Among many other things, controlling which part of the disk based data to mmap in. These are things that a higher level language's runtime can't just optimize for you.

<comment><USER4> What part of laying things out in specific widths prohibits an implementation in a high level language?

From 2001-2005, at Arbor Networks, I worked on a codebase that basically had to bucket the entire Internet, as seen from (say) the core routers at British Telecom, on varying timescales. Obviously, we wrote it in C. It was not optimal. What's worse, changing it was a huge nightmare. Most of the performance improvements we came up with (at least in my first year) were design issues (like messing with precision, storing runs of zeroes, things like that). Most of the bugs we has were textbook C issues, like failing to address shared memory properly.

I'm totally not sold that high speed disk I/O demands C.

<comment><USER6> " _What part of laying things out in specific widths prohibits an implementation in a high level language?_ "

Nothing, mechanically. I was more referring to the efficiency of doing it (OK, one thing I'm learning on HN is that I can't just think of it as a casual chatroom, need to flesh comments out more). And note the original question was an actual _question_ and also I'm sympathetic to what you're saying.

I was taught that with raw pointers and memory control, the database implementation would chunk all the right stuff efficiently in and out from the disk and it could get directly to any row/column naturally with pointer arithmetic. I thought DBs even managed the disk directly and had their own buffer cache like in the kernel.

 _This part of things_ doesn't look like a high level language task to me, especially because of garbage collection. And I'm sure, like with most things where I lack implementation experience, this is only the most cursory view of the field.

My preferred mode of work is to use Python and if there's a true bottleneck/limitation from the language features then break it out into a C module. Maybe something like this would be more appropriate here instead.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is pretty retarded. The code in crypto competition submissions is invariably crappy; nobody is expected to use it outside of the contest.

Unfortunately, Fortify's core customers are enterprise IT development teams, who will be impressed by this. That real security professionals will ding them for the misleading post matters not at all.

</comment><comment><USER5> As the article makes clear, these are not buffer overflows in the _algorithms_ themselves, they are just overflows in the reference implementations.</comment>