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Under fire, "furious" Fox News execs yank Hannity from Tea Party event
Research ››› ››› ERIC HANANOKI
Amidst a firestorm of criticism, reportedly "furious" Fox News executives have yanked Sean Hannity from taping his April 15 show at a Cincinnati Tea Party event which charged admission and had "all proceeds" benefiting the organization. As Media Matters for America had reported, Hannity's appearance, which was promoted on 18 different editions of his Fox News program, elicited criticism from news and broadcast veterans who questioned the ethics of raising money for a political organization during a production of a Fox News show.
The plan: Want to see Hannity? Pay the Cincy Tea Party
Hannity attendance required paid admission. As Media Matters documented, Hannity was scheduled to tape his April 15 show at the Cincinnati Tea Party's (CTP) 2010 Tax Day Tea Party, which required paid admission. A promotional flier for the event promised a "Taping of Sean Hannity's Fox News Show," a "Hannity Book Signing," and speeches from local Ohio figures. According to CTP, "All proceeds benefit the Cincinnati Tea Party." CTP's flier:
Higher ticket prices for better viewing of Hannity. CTP sold more expensive tickets by promising better viewing of Hannity's Fox News program. For instance, CTP offered "premium reserved seating by the Hannity show" for $20; VIP seats, which included a "Floor ticket to event and dinner at the UC restaurant overlooking the arena!" for $100; and general admission seating for $5. The Cincinnati Enquirer reported on April 13 that the $20 premium seats give you "a chance to be on TV" and added that organizers "expect a sold-out crowd" of 13,000.
Tea Party organizer says they "coordinated" with Hannity's Fox staff "to plan the logistics"
"[O]ur tea party people coordinated with his staff to plan the logistics of the event." On April 13, Media Matters emailed the Cincinnati Tea Party and asked if Hannity was being compensated for his appearance and if the organization worked "with Mr. Hannity's Fox News staff." CTP communications manager Sue White replied: "Mr. Hannity is not being compensated by any tea party, but our tea party people coordinated with his staff to plan the logistics of the event."
Media Matters report: Hannity Tea Party show plan raised ethical eyebrows
On April 14, Media Matters investigative reporter Joe Strupp reported that "Hannity's plan to do his show Thursday night from a Tea Party event in Cincinnati that will charge admission is raising ethical worries among several news and broadcast veterans. The idea that a news show that covers the Tea Party issue, among others, would seek to raise money for the event during a production of the show has some in the industry crying foul."
- Society of Professional Journalists' Smith: "[I]ncestuous" and "clear conflict of interest." Strupp quoted Kevin Smith, president of the Society of Professional Journalists, who stated:
"Unequivocally, from our standpoint, this is wrong," declared Kevin Smith, president of the Society of Professional Journalists. "For a news organization to charge people for access, then take that money and roll it over to a political action group that they cover quite a bit."
Smith added, "It has gotten to the point where you cannot delineate between Fox News and the Tea Party movement - it is incestuous. There is a clear conflict of interest here."
- NPR ombudsman: Undermining "fair and balanced" slogan. Strupp wrote: "Alicia Shepard, ombudsman for National Public Radio, also found fault with the plan. 'If the job of a news organization is to present the facts in an unbiased way and if Fox is charging people to raise money for a political cause, then they are undermining their mission to be fair and balanced,' she said. 'Is Sean Hannity's mission to be fair and balanced or to be a pundit with a political bent? It is clearly new territory.'"
- GWU's Sesno: Violates "virtually every [journalism] rule." Strupp wrote: "Frank Sesno, who spent 21 years at CNN in Washington and now serves as director of the School of Media and Public Affairs at George Washington University, said: 'It violates virtually every rule of every ethical guideline that journalism covers. The idea that you would support a [political] movement and ask your audience to pay for it.'"
- Poynter's Steele: The "traditional standards are both eroding and corroding." Strupp wrote: "'The traditional standards are both eroding and corroding,' [The Poynter Institute's Bob Steele] said when told of the plan. 'Does Sean Hannity consider himself a journalist? Does Fox News consider his program journalism? If either or both of those answers are yes, there is a serious problem with what he is doing with this event and the financial piece.'"
- Sienna's Smith: It's "ethically challenged." Strupp wrote: "Then there is Dow Smith, who spent 27 years in broadcast news and served as news director at television stations in Miami, the District of Columbia and Detroit. He called it 'ethically challenged.' 'There is no way you should be doing this,' said Smith, who is now a journalism professor at Siena College in New York. 'If I was a news director and found out one of my reporters had done this, I would have fired them on the spot.'"
Balt. Sun critic: What "Hannity and Fox News are doing is wrong." Baltimore Sun critic David Zurawik also criticized Hannity and Fox News, writing that "as a down-the-middle media critic, who has defended Fox News more than perhaps anyone else in the mainstream media when it came under fire last year from the White House, I need to go out of my way to say that what Hannity and Fox News are doing is wrong":
Look, I'll not pre-judge the show. But as a down-the-middle media critic, who has defended Fox News more than perhaps anyone else in the mainstream media when it came under fire last year from the White House, I need to go out of my way to say that what Hannity and Fox News are doing is wrong.
Even if you buy the argument promoted by Fox management that Hannity's show is opinion, not news, and everyone on the planet knows that, it is still wrong to use your broadcast in such an overtly poilitical manner.
Providing a forum for voices of dissent is one thing. Indeed, I have argued it is a good thing, and praised Fox News for doing it when so much of the rest of the media seemed to be on bended knee before Obama in the first few months after his inauguration. The administration seemed to lack any plan to help the millions of Americans who were losing jobs left and right, and it seemed as if the most the press could do was celebrate Obama with a cult of personality chorus of hosannas. Fox was one of the few media outlets delivering on its watchdog responsibilities.
But for Fox News to let Hannity take his show on the road and use it as a political tool to help mount dissent and fan the flames of protest is another thing altogether. The ratings might be nice, but Hannity and Fox News are playing a dangerous political game by putting the program in league with such Tea Party roadshows, and for once, I agree that they deserve all the criticism they are getting from the left.
LA Times on April 15: "Fox News yanks Sean Hannity from Cincinnati Tea Party rally he was set to star in"
Fox exec: We "never agreed to allow the Cincinnati Tea Party organizers to use Sean Hannity's television program to profit from broadcasting his show from the event." The Los Angeles Times reported in an April 15 article that "[a]ngry Fox News executives ordered host Sean Hannity to abandon plans to broadcast his nightly show as part of a Tea Party rally in Cincinnati on Thursday after top executives learned that he was set to headline the event, proceeds from which would benefit the local Tea Party organization." From the article:
Angry Fox News executives ordered host Sean Hannity to abandon plans to broadcast his nightly show as part of a Tea Party rally in Cincinnati on Thursday after top executives learned that he was set to headline the event, proceeds from which would benefit the local Tea Party organization.
Rally organizers had listed Hannity, who is on a book tour, as the headliner of the four-hour Tax Day event at the University of Cincinnati. The rally, expected to draw as many as 13,000 people, was set feature speakers such as "Liberal Facism" author Jonah Goldberg and local Tea Party leaders. Participants were being charged a minimum of $5, with seats near Hannity's set going for $20, according to the Cincinnati Enquirer, which reported that any profits would go to future Tea Party events. Media Matters for America noted that Hannity's personal website directed supporters to a link to buy tickets for the Cincinnati rally.
But senior Fox News executives said they were not aware Hannity was being billed as the centerpiece of the event or that Tea Party organizers were charging for admission to Hannity's show as part of the rally. They first learned of it Thursday morning from John Finley, Hannity's executive producer, who was in Cincinnati to produce Hannity's show.
Furious, top officials recalled Hannity back to New York to do his show in his regular studio. The network plans to do an extensive post-mortem about the incident with Finley and Hannity's staff.
"Fox News never agreed to allow the Cincinnati Tea Party organizers to use Sean Hannity's television program to profit from broadcasting his show from the event," said Bill Shine, the network's executive vice president of programming. "When senior executives in New York were made aware of this, we changed our plans for tonight's show."
Critics of Fox News have accused the network of promoting Tea Party even as it covers the political movement as a news story. A spokeswoman for the network said that Neil Cavuto was the only host other than Hannity at a Tea Party event Thursday, stressing that Cavuto was covering the Atlanta event for both Fox News and Fox Business Channel, not attending as a participant. Carl Cameron provided news coverage of the Tea Party events around the country out of Washington.
Hannity promoted his Cincy appearance on 18 shows since early March
Hannity: "We will be in Cincinnati. Hope you can join us. Go to Hannity.com for details." According to a Media Matters search of the Nexis database, Hannity promoted his Cincinnati appearance 18 times since March 5. In doing so, Hannity routinely directed viewers to his personal website (Hannity.com) to find out how "you can join us" and "be a part of the studio audience, meet us on our tour." Fox News also routinely aired on-screen text directing viewers to Hannity's website. On his personal website, Hannity linked viewers to the University of Cincinnati box office to buy tickets. From Hannity's website:
Hannity's link directs to the University of Cincinnati's box office purchase page for the "CINCINNATI TEA PARTY":
The following are the 18 instances of Hannity mentioning his Cincinnati stop (via Nexis) on Fox News:
- April 14: "Now, before we go tonight, we want to thank the folks here at the Gwinnett Center. Tomorrow, tax day, we will be in Cincinnati. Hope you can join us. Go to Hannity.com for details. See you tomorrow night."
- April 13: "And last but not least, we are ending. We'll be in Atlanta tomorrow, Cincinnati on Thursday. Thanks for being with us."
- April 12: "[T]hen our final show will come Thursday from Cincinnati. That's right, tax day, April 15. Now, details about the tour and the book are on my Web site and how you can part of the "Hannity" program and come see us."
- April 9: "Our final show on the 15th, by the way, tax day, a big rally in Cincinnati. We have great guests lined up all next week. And details about the tour and the book are at Hannity.com."
- April 8: "And then tax day we will be in Cincinnati. If you want to join the show, it's all on my Web site, Hannity.com. And hopefully, you can part of the studio audience. My website, Hannity.com."
- April 7: "We'll be in Atlanta. April 15, we will be in Cincinnati. If you want to be a part of this show, it's all on my Web site, Hannity.com. Hannity.com."
- April 6: "And by the way, if you want to find out how you can join us, either there or in Grand Rapids on Thursday or in New Orleans on Friday or the following week in Florida, Atlanta and Cincinnati on April 15, just go to my Web site. Details about the tour, my new book are at Hannity.com."
- April 5: "This week on Wednesday we will be in Minneapolis, and we'll be with Governor Palin, Michele Bachmann. Then to Grand Rapids. At the end of the week, New Orleans. Then we'll be in Kansas City and in Nashville next Saturday. Then The Villages in Florida, and then we're in Atlanta, then Cincinnati. And by the way, you can come to any of the shows. Go to my Web site, Hannity.com."
- April 1: "And then off to Atlanta and then tax day Cincinnati. And you can join us. Just go to my Web site, Hannity.com, and you can find out if you can come see a live show of 'Hannity.'"
- March 31: "We will be in Cincinnati, Ohio, for a big Tea Party rally."
- March 30: "As you can see, we're going to be tomorrow in Salt Lake City, then Minneapolis with Governor Palin, Grand Rapids, New Orleans, Florida, Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh and then Philly this weekend. ... So it's [Hannity's book] in bookstores everywhere. It's on my Web site, Hannity.com. Also, go there to get details on how you can join us on tour."
- March 29: "And we will be in Cincinnati, April 15. Now, on location, 'Hannity.' Go to my Web site, Hannity.com."
- March 26: "Then we are off to Atlanta, Georgia, on April 14, Cincinnati, Ohio, on tax day, April 15. And we'll be bringing you a lot of live, on location 'Hannity' shows, and maybe you'll come out and join us. All the details for the tour are on Hannity.com, my Web site."
- March 25: "We'll be in Atlanta, Georgia. Then on April 15, Cincinnati, Ohio. Now, you can be a part of our live studio audience. All the details for all of our stops are on Hannity.com."
- March 24: "We will be in Atlanta, Georgia, and Cincinnati, Ohio. And we're going to bring you live, on location 'Hannity' shows from all these cities. Details about the tour and some other cities we're going to on the weekend are at Hannity.com. Hannity.com, my Web site."
- March 23: "We're going to be at The Villages in Orlando; Cincinnati. All the details as we launch one week from today my brand-new book, my first book in six years, 'Conservative Victory: Defeating Obama's Radical Agenda.' If you'd like to join us to see this program, if you'd like to get an early copy, Hannity.com, my Web site. My last name, Hannity.com, for all the details."
- March 22: "We're going to be in Cincinnati. We're going to be in Orlando. We're going to be at the Villages, Bob, where you and I will play golf together one day. And we'll be in Atlanta. Now, if you want to be a part of the studio audience, meet us on our tour. We'll be in Philly, Pittsburgh. Hannity.com, my Web site. Hannity.com."
- March 5: "All right. [Radio host] Billy Cunningham, in 25 days from now, and then on April 15, we're going to be in the great city of Cincinnati for a big, huge Tea Party rally."
While Hannity promoted his Cincinnati event, Fox News also regularly aired graphics directing viewers to his personal website. The following are examples from four recent shows:
April 13:
April 12:
April 9:
April 8:
- Network/Outlet
- Fox News Channel
- Person
- Sean Hannity
- Show/Publication
- Hannity
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Kickoff/Punt returns for TD by M
Seems like we haven't had a dynamic Kick/Punt return specialist since Steve Breaston. I believe our last KR for TD was Stonum in [EDIT: 2009]. When i think about the elite/good teams of recent years, they always seemed to have great returners.
LSU- Mathieu, Peterson, Holliday
Bama- Maze, Menzie, some other little cornerback
Georgia- Boykins
TCU- Kerley
KSU- Banks, Sproles
I wanted to know where we rank in terms of return TD's compared to other top teams, and also wondering if this is from lack of talent, or focus on ST

subset: commoncrawl


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President Richard Nixon didn't have them by the White House when they went undefeated in 1972, but the Miami Dolphins got their due Tuesday.
The 1972 Dolphins, who defeated the Washington Redskins to win Super Bowl VII, remain the only NFL team with an undefeated season.
Nearly every living member of the team made the trip to the White House, including 83-year-old coach Don Shula. Dolphins owner Stephen Ross offered to pay for travel for any member who wanted to go. Thirty-one players attended the ceremony, along with Shula, assistant coach Howard Schnellenberger and trainer Robert Lundy.
President Barack Obama said he was honoring the 1972 team because they are "all men of accomplishment and character, and it showed on the field and off the field as well."
The president joked that if he could invite the Green Bay Packers, a rival to his Chicago Bears, to the White House after their 2011 Super Bowl victory, the Dolphins were certainly welcome after 40 years.
"These Dolphins made history back before Super Bowl champs started visiting the White House," he said. "Let's face it, this is also just a fun thing to do. I like doing it as president."
It wasn't a common practice in the 1970s to invite championship teams to the White House, although Nixon might have been unusually distracted during the Dolphins' historic game on Jan, 14, 1973. Although Nixon had just been re-elected, former aides G. Gordon Liddy and James W. McCord Jr. were about to be convicted of conspiracy, burglary and wiretapping in connection with the break-in at the Democratic Party national headquarters at Washington's Watergate hotel. Nixon's presidency, it turned out, was doomed.
Championship teams are frequently invited now. Obama, known to decompress with ESPN's "SportsCenter," even shot hoops in 2009 with the University of Connecticut women's basketball team when it visited the White House to celebrate its NCAA championship.
Obama sheepishly admitted to the Dolphins that he already had invited another team that got neglected: the 1985 Chicago Bears. The team's victory trip to the White House had been postponed by the explosion of the space shuttle Challenger.
Shula reminded the president that the Dolphins were the only team to defeat the president's beloved Bears that season.
"We beat 'em!" shouted out one of the people attending the ceremony.
Despite the distractions he faced during the 1972 season, Nixon remained a huge football fan who followed the Redskins closely. He was known for calling coach George Allen to suggest plays. He did the same to Shula.
Before the Dolphins played the Dallas Cowboys in Super Bowl VI on Jan. 16, 1972, Nixon called Shula to suggest "a quick slant pass to Paul Warfield," according to an Associated Press account from the time.
It's tough to turn down advice from the president of the United States, Shula said Tuesday. And since Warfield was one of the best athletes he ever coached, the coach said, the presidential suggestion made sense.
"I said, 'That's not a bad idea,'" Shula said.
It's unclear whether Nixon called Shula before the 1973 Super Bowl victory that Obama honored Tuesday. But as the Washington Post put it at the time, Nixon's allegiances "were with the Washington team." Nixon watched Washington play Miami from Key Largo, Fla., at the home of his friend, banker C.G. "Bebe" Rebozo. The game was at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. The Dolphins won 14-7.
A presidential spokesman said at the time that Nixon thought "the people of Washington and Miami can both be proud of their teams because they played well." His deputy press secretary, Neal Ball, told the Post that Nixon thought the Super Bowl "was a fine game" and, in Ball's words, "thought it was one of the best Super Bowl games because there was suspense right up to the end."
In fact, the Dolphins completely dominated the game. Washington's only score came with a little over two minutes left in the game when Dolphins kicker Garo Yepremian's field goal attempt was blocked and Yepremian attempted a pass that ended up being intercepted and returned for a touchdown.
Nixon sent telegrams to both the Washington and Miami coaches. They're archived at the Nixon Presidential Library & Museum in Yorba Linda, Calif.
"Today's victory," he wrote to Shula, "was a smashing climax to a truly perfect season."
Tuesday's 15-minute ceremony was the first visit to the White House for the legendary football coach. The 1972 team entered the East Room of the White House in Dolphin-green sports coats. The Hall of Famers on the team entered in their special gold jackets. And Shula, also in a gold sports coat, entered on a motorized wheelchair.
Toward the end of the ceremony, Shula stood up from the wheelchair to have his photo taken with Obama and a team jersey signed by the remaining team members. It's numbered 72. There's no name on the back, just one word: "Undefeated."


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/timetest is a command that can be run to provide information on game performance. /timetest 0 turns the command off. When the command is issued, the next time a player uses a flight master to travel, certain statistics will be measured and displayed at the end of that flight. All weather effects and spawns are shutdown during the test.
Effects triggered from being critically hit: Many abilities and talents were changed in 2.3.0 to allow them to trigger from critical strikes that occurred while the player benefitting from them was sitting.
Quest givers with blue question marks no longer show up on the minimap.
NPC's who you have completed a quest for will display a question mark on mouseover rather than an exclamation point.
The bank controls for the guildmaster level of a guild is now grayed out. A guildmaster always has full access to a guild bank and this cannot be changed.
A "Withdraw-Repair Only" button has been added to the guild bank controls. If this is set for a guild rank, then that rank cannot actually withdraw funds from the guild bank, but they can still use that daily amount of money for repairs.
You will now automatically stand up when attacked, even if the attack doesn't land.
Boat and zeppelin vendors and NPCs are are back on duty.
Reduced network latency by disabling the Nagle algorithm.


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Results 1 to 1 of 1
#1 Gallup: Gov't 'Too big', 'Corrupt', 'Confused' (Also 'Sucky').10-11-2010, 05:23 PMGallup: Too Big Is Most Common Description Americans Give Federal Government
Monday, October 11, 2010
By Terence P. Jeffrey
President Barack Obama
President Barack Obama speaks in the East Room of the White House in Washington, Friday, Oct. 8, 2010. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)
It was not even close.
When the USA Today/Gallup poll asked 981 Americans "if someone asked you to describe the federal government in one word or phrase, there was one phrase people used far more frequently than any other: Too big.
Thirty-four respondents spontaneously emitted exactly those two wordstoo big--in response to Gallup's inquiry. That does not count the many others who used a slight variation on too big or used other terms to express the same basic judgment about the size of the federal government.
Two respondents, for example, used three words, saying, Its too big, instead of just too big.
Others said its way too big, getting too big, getting too big and intrusive, too big and too invasive, too big and too intrusive, too big and too costly, dysfunctional and too big, and too big, large and inefficient.
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PLEASANT HILL — It's been a season of unprecedented success for the Newton-Colfax-Mingo-Pella swim team.
Saturday, it reached another milestone.
Competing in a regional meet at Southeast Polk High School, the Aquagirls achieved their best showing ever in the state qualifying event by placing second out of nine teams. They finished only behind No. 1-ranked Ames. The team's previous best finish at regionals was third in 2003.
"That was our goal going in," NCMP coach Sarah Patterson said about taking second. "It's been fun with such a strong team as this to have some of these goals. Besides the relays, regionals are a pretty individualized meet. It was amazing to go in there, take second and be right up there."
In the process of the team's runner-up placing, the Aquagirls also earned trips to Saturday's state meet for five swimmers — four of whom will compete in multiple events. NCMP qualified for state in two relays and five individual events.
Individually, junior Carly Colville qualified in the 200-yard freestyle and 100 butterfly, freshman Samantha Hedrick qualified in the 50 and 100 freestyles and sophomore Hannah Scotton qualfiied in the 100 butterfly. The Aquagirls' 200 freestyle relay of Colville, sophomore Rachel Prendergast, Scotton and Hedrick will go to state, as will the 400 freestyle relay team of Colville, Prendergast, freshman Sydney Jenkins and Hedrick.
"They were all just strong competitors on Saturday," Patterson said of her state qualifiers. "They didn't back down. There were a couple events were the final heat was three girls from ames and three for us. I ddin't feel like we were intimidated, thinking they (Ames) were 'the "big girls.""
Out of regionals, the top 24 times for individual and relay events qualified for state. Each regional individual event had 24 entrants, while relays had eight or nine.
The Aquagirls won two of the meet's individual events — aside from diving, which the team didn't compete in this season — was second in one, third in three, fifith in one, sixth in four, seventh in three and eighth in two.
NCMP's meet started with the 200 medley relay team of Jenkins, freshman Sierra Griffith, Scotton and sophomore Sara Martin taking fourth in 1 minute, 57.83 seconds — missing state by 1.08 seconds. It faired well in the 200 freestyle, as Colville, Prendergast and freshman Elizabeth Myers took third, seventh and 10th, with Colville qualifying 18th in the state in 2:00.43.
Next was the 200 individual medley, where senior Sidney Griffith, freshman Hannah Rhoads and Sierra Griffith took sixth, eighth and 12th. The Aquagirls picked up their second state qualifier in the 50 freestyle, where Hedrick took second in 24.82 seconds — the eighth-best time statewide. Scotton was eighth in 25:78.
NCMP's biggest event was the 100 butterfly. Scotton won the event and had the state's eighth-best time in 1:00.19, while Colville was third and qualified 11th in 1:00.57 and Martin took seventh in 1:05.83.
The Aquagirls stayed atop the podium in the next event as well. Hedrick won the 100 freestyle in 53.64 seconds, while Prendergast (56.25) and Jenkins (57.56) were fifth and sixth. Hedrick's time was sixth-best in the state, while Prendergast missed state by just .17 seconds.
NCMP's best finisher in the 500 freestyle was Myers, who took sixth in 5:46.66.
The team got its next state qualifier in the 200 freestyle relay, where the foursome of Colville, Prendergast, Scotton and Hedrick took third in 1:42.25 — the 14th-best time in the state.
Next up was the 100 backstroke, where Jenkins and Sidney Griffith took seventh and eighth in 1:03.95 and 1:06.52. In the 100 breaststroke, Rhoads and Martin took 10th and 11th in 1:14.46 and 1:15.54.
That brought the meet to its final event — the 400 freestyle relay. There, the team of Colville, Prendergast, Jenkins and Hedrick took second in 3:43.31 — which was 11th-best in the state.
"Everyone that swam, besides one or two events, had season-best times," Patterson said. "It was phenomenal to watch them one after another give everything they had."
The state meet is Saturday at the Marshalltown YMCA Natatorium, beginning with the Parade of teams at noon.


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Islanders' Okposo building on playoff performanceby Brian Compton
UNIONDALE, N.Y. -- New York Islanders forward Kyle Okposo would be the first to tell you he struggled through much of last season. The Islanders' first-round pick (No. 7) at the 2006 NHL Draft had four goals in 48 regular-season games, a huge dip from the 24 goals he scored in 79 games in 2011-12.
Things changed during the 2013 Stanley Cup Playoffs. With the Islanders trailing 3-1 in Game 2 of their Eastern Conference Quarterfinal against the Pittsburgh Penguins, forward Matt Moulson was hit hard by Penguins defenseman Matt Niskanen in the neutral zone. Okposo, knowing his team needed a lift, challenged Niskanen to a fight.
Okposo landed a couple of early right hands to Niskanen's face, leaving a cut under his left eye. Fourteen seconds after play resumed, Colin McDonald scored to make it a one-goal game. Just over five minutes later, Matt Martin got the Islanders even. Okposo scored the game-winner midway through the third period, then scored two more goals in the series before the Islanders were eliminated in six games.
"It was kind of the moment and I thought we could use a little spark," Okposo recalled to NHL.com at Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum on Wednesday. "It just kind of happened. I didn't even really see the hit, I just saw he kind of got hurt a little bit, so I wanted to jump-start the boys."
Islanders center Frans Nielsen said, "Of course when one of your leaders steps up like that, you know something's not right. You've got to wake up. [Assistant coach Doug Weight] started yelling at the bench. It's not every day you see that either. There's different things that went on there when we were down 3-1. It got the team together and we started playing."
The Islanders seemed energized by the fight and gave the Penguins everything they could handle. But it may have been what Okposo needed to lift his game to where he and the Islanders knew it should have been all along.
"Yeah, maybe … I don't know," Okposo said. "It was good for the team and for the guys, it lit a spark. Personally, maybe it helped me get into the series a little bit. I don't know if I could point to that specifically that's why I was producing offensively."
Okposo is off a solid start for the Islanders this season. In nine games, he had three goals, seven assists and a plus-1 rating. But he said he's capable of more.
"I think I've been OK," Okposo said. "I've been getting better. I thought last game I could have been better defensively for sure. We had a couple of lapses and I thought I could have done a better job of getting into the game. Overall, I've been decently happy with it. I think we've had some good games and some not-great games.
"I just want to keep getting better. I think I've been doing some things well offensively. I just need to keep winning battles and I think the rest will take care of itself."
As long as Okposo continues to skate on New York's top line alongside captain John Tavares, the offensive chances will continue to be there. With Tavares getting the majority of the attention from the opposition, Okposo will get opportunities as long as he works to find open ice.
"You know you're going to get chances and offensive-zone time playing with him," Okposo said of Tavares, a Hart Trophy finalist last season. "But that being said, they're keying on him so much, you have to get open and try and create space yourself."
Tavares said, "We've had some good moments and we've had times where we can be a little better, obviously. I think that just goes with the way things have gone for our team to start the season. There have been some good things on the power play, but we could still be better 5-on-5. I think we know there's room to get better and grow and be more productive and more efficient as well."
Islanders coach Jack Capuano has spent time shuffling lines this season, but he's kept Okposo with Tavares for much of it. He's liked what he's seen from his 25-year-old right wing.
"I think he's played harder," Capuano said. "I think he can play smarter at times, but I can't fault his work ethic and his ability to get in on the forecheck, drive his legs and be the power forward that he is. I'm pleased with the way he's playing. If he can continue to do that, he's going to help our hockey team."
The Islanders won three of their first nine games (3-3-3) and have experienced difficulty protecting leads on home ice. Friday they'll be back in a familiar place, when they'll face the Penguins at Consol Energy Center.
Who knows … perhaps Okposo will light another spark for his team?
"It's definitely going to be interesting going in there and not being a playoff game," Okposo said. "But it's another two points we've got to get."


text:
The Arizona Cardinals plan to interview former Philadelphia Eagles coach Andy Reid on Thursday for their head-coaching vacancy, team sources told NFL.com's Ian Rapoport and Albert Breer.
The Cardinals interviewed defensive coordinator Ray Horton about their head-coaching job on Tuesday, and are expected to send executives to Denver to meet with Broncos offensive coordinator Mike McCoy.
The Cardinals fired coach Ken Whisenhunt on Monday after six years with the team and one Super Bowl appearance. General manager Rod Graves also was dismissed.
Reid was let go by the Eagles on Monday after a 14-year run in Philadelphia highlighted by five trips to the NFC Championship Game and one appearance in the Super Bowl.
He is expected to use his previous relationship with Cardinals quarterback Kevin Kolb, who played for Reid in Philadelphia, as a selling point with Cardinals brass.


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What Was The Last TV Show You Watched?
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*Membership spots not really limited!
Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Well, they're not accepting new members, but we'll take anyone here, so why not sign up for a free acount? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*
*Membership spots not really limited!
by Grayson » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:33 am
I actually really enjoyed the first season of Girls. The second season on the other hand...
by IvCNuB4 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:46 am"Orphan Black" last night. This episode was a bit more interesting than the first two, especially now that Sarah met the completely wacked out Orphan Killer. I'm guessing that
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
she is either a clone-gone-crazy, or the original that the clones were made from.
by Sunless » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:56 amIt's quite weird I thought we'd have a lot of TV lovers here. Sure I like movies, but much prefer Telly.
Last watched episode 4 of the Following, nice and creepy.
by CountD » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:14 amCommunity was not so good last night.
Parks and Rec as entertaining, tho.
by MistaT » Sat May 11, 2013 9:47 pmDue to the cutie in my new avatar I started watching Lost Girl. Cute gothy chick plus a succubus, that's gotta be a win right? Well if it is then it is one of those come from behind kinda wins.
Really its not too bad, it just hasn't clicked for me yet, but it is getting better.
by Grayson » Fri May 17, 2013 12:10 amThe Office series finale. Damn near perfect.
by Amoebas » Fri May 17, 2013 5:58 am
That was really good.
Glad to see Michael (and glad to see Michael not be 'Michael').
Creed was comedy genius
Pam's big move was perfect for her (and Jim)
Ryan and Kelly were predictable
Nellie and Drake was a nice (weird, highly illegal) touch
Kevin was actually kind of sad (like Andy).
Meridith was creepy (her son) and funny (her unseen degree)
Erin was beautiful but still so naive (I thought her parents were fakes until she and EBJ danced the same)
Etc etc etc
A great farewell to a show that should have ended sooner - but this one episode - made up for the decision to go on as long as it did.
by Grayson » Fri May 17, 2013 2:13 pm
I think the explanation that Michael has so many pictures of his kids on his phone that he had to get a second phone was absolutely brilliant and was perfect for his character.
by MistaT » Tue May 28, 2013 11:24 pmSo I just finished up season 3 of Lost Girl. I really don't know what to think of this show. On the one hand I see a lot of potential for it, but they keep falling short everytime and I end up being disappointed. On the other hand Ksenia Solo (the cutie in my avatar and what got me started on it) and Anna Silk (the star of the show) have great chemistry and keep me coming back for more. Richard Howland is also pretty decent in it.
I think where the show really falls apart is in the directing and production. The story lines are good, but a lot of times you don't really feel that they have had time to fully develop before they are hastily resolved with a last minute McGuffin to wrap things up so that they can move on to the next plot point. In a word, the show just feels "rushed". Its as if they are living under the threat of cancellation at any minute and are contantly trying to quickly tie things up before that happens.
by Amoebas » Wed May 29, 2013 5:50 amBrain Games
Reaper reunion special
Some old Sgt Bilko's
by LoganRSA » Wed May 29, 2013 9:51 amI found the nerdiest show on TV, British comedy The School of Hard Sums
I have to watch it on YouTube, but it's much more fun than it has a right to be. At its essence, comedian Dara Ó Briain hosts a math puzzler competition of brain vs brawn.
by CountD » Wed May 29, 2013 11:21 amreruns (I guess) of Inkmaster hosted by Dave Navarro, who has some of the ugliest (c'mon..a blurry pig) ink I've seen since tribal was in vogue in the 90's.
by Grayson » Thu May 30, 2013 7:00 pmI have been treating myself to a Venture Bros. marathon this week in preparation for the fifth season premiere Sunday night.
by MistaT » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:39 pm
Just finished season 1. Such an amazing show, I really hate that it is going to end. Not sure who my favorite Doll is. Its a toss up between Whiskey and Sierra.
Wash is Alpha?!! How awesome was that?!!!
by Garofani Spruzzo » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:04 pmI watched season one of Revolution and now am watching Starlost, a 1973 sci fi series created by Harlan Ellison. It's available on youtube for frees.
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Music to Your Ears
Euphoria: Back in Black—Actually, it never went anywhere. Pulse manager Lisa VanDyke says that the gothic/industrial dance party does and will continue to have a home at Pulse on Thursday nights, just as it has for the past seven years. VanDyke says Euphoria is not affiliated with any other venues, and despite the recent exodus of a few employees, it's still going strong at Pulse. In fact, she says "it's only going to get better!" VanDyke and founding member DJ Vladmira plan to turn up Euphoria's voltage with local and national guest DJs, special performances and a fresh injection of electroclash into Pulse's already potent gothic/industrial cocktail. Party on, children of the night!
Music Magnified
Concert to Benefit Katrina Victims
featuring The Folks, Anonymous Victims, Last Fifteen, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Jealous Gods, One for Hope, Scenester, Baked, The Mindy Set, Of God and Science, simple. and Feels Like Sunday
Monday, Sept. 19; the Launchpad, 7 p.m. (all-ages until 11 p.m.), $8 (proceeds go to the Hurricane Relief Fund): When the going gets tough, the tough grab a guitar. This Monday, the Launchpad plays host to a benefit concert for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, and the show will feature much more than just a smattering of local talent. Whether you're looking for the indie rock of The Mindy Set, the Zeppelin-inspired sounds of Jealous Gods or the country twanged-out pop-punk of Scenester, there's something to keep everyone in the groove. It's been said that rock and roll has the power to heal. On Monday, rock and roll—and you—have the power to help. Please do what you can, for goodness sake, and have a freaking great time doing it!
Battle of the Bands: The New Mexico Music Commission Talent Showcase
Saturday, Sept. 17, at Expo New Mexico's Ford Pavilion
Even though I'm convinced that Expo New Mexico ripped off my idea for chile relleno corn dogs, there are a few attractions at this year's fair that have managed to suspend my distrust of those midway hucksters, at least for the time being. Indeed, the New Mexico Music Commission Talent Showcase signals that better and brighter things are to come, not only at the State Fair, but for New Mexico music in general. The showcase is presented by the New Mexico Music Commission, a group that was signed into existence just last April by Governor Bill Richardson. According to its organizers, the commission's main objective is to work with local musicians in promoting their "continued creativity," and by assisting the state's music industry "in reaching its full potential." It's a step in the right direction, to say the least.
Show Up!
Lower Than Dirt CD Release Party
Think of lead singer Scott Salvas as a sort of metal-core ambassador. He and his band, Lower Than Dirt (or LTD as the kids call them), are dedicated to pleasing not only neo-metal devotees, but old-school metal, death metal and screamo aficionados as well. "I know every band says this, but we really do try to rock in a different way," Salvas says. "Even if somebody doesn't usually listen to metal, they can still walk away impressed by us because we put on a good rock show."
Music Magnified
International Extreme Music Festival
with God Dethroned, Manntis, Nightrage, Hell Within, Epoch of Unlight, Lilitu and Thine Eyes Bleed
Tuesday, Sept. 20; the Launchpad (all-ages), $15: Whaaaooooaaa! Whaaoooaaaa—just one of the sounds your disgusting ears will hear tonight at the Extreme Music Festival, where morbid black metal and thrash will consume all who embark upon the Launchpad. This dark horror will result from performances by a variety of bands new to the black arts, as well as Swedish dark masters God Dethroned and Swedish/Greek/French pan-European overlords, Nightrage (not to be confused with '80s hair metal band Night Ranger, who would probably be severely augmented if they were to ever encounter Nightrage). You might feel a sense of foreboding as your brain is aggressively disassembled by a bloody onslaught of warp-speed shredding and drumming combined with incoherent, but surely evil, incantations which will come whence forth from the song-master's inner sanctum. Only the dungeons of hell and Warlock guitars could create such cacophony. If, like me, you've heard of the madness which is Northern European black metal and desire to see the massacre as well as its stateside counterpart for your ugly selves, throw the horns, get some goddamn ear plugs and join the unholy festival. Uhhhhhhhhhwwaaa, whoooaaaa, ha, ha, ha!
Sonic Reducer
Minus the Bear Menos el Oso (Suicide Squeeze Records)
Minus the Bear's lead singer, Jake Snider, has taken some heat from critics over his somewhat emotionally deprived vocals. But Menos el Oso doesn't have to be about deep-rooted feelings and catharsis for me to get behind it. It's enough that, after the first listen, hearing it again was more appealing than a night of repeated fornication. That may, perhaps, be pushing it, but fornication aside, the ideal amount of programmed beats and synthesizer, together with tremolo-guitar and downright dreamy vocals, make Menos el Oso f—ing terrific!
Flyer on the Wall
Thursday, Sept.15, at the Launchpad. See "Lucky 7."--Get famous! Send us your upcoming show posters! Submissions should be timely, eye-catching, heavy on graphics and light on text. Flyers that are late, very dark or low in resolution won't show up in print. Send your submissions to firstname.lastname@example.com or post one up at alibi.com/ads in the Gigs/Show Flyers section. (LM)


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Roundhill Tennis Club, Operation of sports arenas and stadiums, listed under "Operation Of Sports Arenas And Stadiums" category, is located at 24-26 Homeway Road Leicester Leicestershire, LE5 5RG, United Kingdom and can be reached by (01162) 736509 phone number. Roundhill Tennis Club has currently 0 reviews.This business profile is not yet claimed, and if you are the owner, claim your business profile for free. If you are not the owner you can invite this business to join by email or by phone.Browse all Operation Of Sports Arenas And Stadiums in Leicester Leicestershire.
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KC8t80 wrote:sounds like one of us should put that idea in the "put heads together" thread.
which one??
You are here: Home ‹ Board index ‹ General Discussion ‹ Site / Forum Discussion
JCO is no. 1 Fan Site!
We are always interested in hearing what you think of JCO or come with suggestions for new site features.
which one??
Excuse my candor but I'd rather lay down with Jim than stand up.
"When in doubt, tell the truth."
Mark Twain
I'm with ya, I'm with ya...
How about designing JCO t-shirts? That would be cool.
"I don't care if people think I'm an overactor. People who think that would call Van Gogh an overpainter." -- Jim Carrey
I like that one! We could literally do all costings accross the board and we'd be distributed world wide - guarenteed! think...think....
........this is Serious Stuff.
Well... we could design JCO t-shirts (or caps, etc., whatever people wanted) bearing Jim's likeness on them... then, as a courtesy, or for legal reasons, we could contact someone in the 'Carrey camp' to obtain permission to use Jim's likeness on the t-shirts... then see what kind of reception they gave us... maybe it would start a buzz?
Just thinking out loud.
"I don't care if people think I'm an overactor. People who think that would call Van Gogh an overpainter." -- Jim Carrey
Oh, well then....let's get the Jim toilet seat in production stat.
"When in doubt, tell the truth."
Mark Twain
Ok....has anyone thought about how much harder mod jobs would be if we started advertising this place? Pretty soon we'd be wanting to be paid...then we'd want wardrobe and makeup. And then pretty soon we'd hire out for minions to do the actual modding while we attend internet functions.
Gee willikers.....
"When in doubt, tell the truth."
Mark Twain
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There Is No God!
Picture a blissful June afternoon in 1991, a marquee on the lawn of an old Devonshire rectory, guests happily mingling and posing with the bride and groom. What a perfect beginning God gave to our marriage! Who could have imagined that within two and a half years we would have exchanged our cozy Hampshire cottage, job security, etc for . . . Albania!
"Where's that?" we ignorantly asked David, a Christian real estate appraiser and work friend of my husband's. He was eagerly inviting us to help teach basic, free market economics at Tirana University for a week. Nick, my husband, reluctantly agreed to pray about it. Amazingly God spoke to Nick from Acts 16:9: "And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; there stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us."
It was December 1991: Communism had fallen and a technocrat government was barely keeping Albania from anarchy. People were killed rioting for bread whilst we were there. Communist dictator, Enver Hoxha, had kept the country in a repressive, isolating stranglehold since 1944. He outlawed religion and in 1967 declared officially to the world, "There is no God!" By 1991 the poverty was shocking. We looked around, stunned; could this really be Europe?
Being among the first foreigners to arrive, our message of love and hope in a Savior was met with incredible openness. I couldn't wait to return! However, Miss Impulsive had married Mr. Planner; not until baby Joshua Jeremy arrived did things start moving again. A visiting American evangelist confirmed our vision of being sent out as missionaries to do the work of the Spirit. We knew then that God was going to give us a love for the people and faith for the finances.
Further gentle encouragements from God and an inner conviction led us to pack up, bid farewell (amidst strong opposition from some quarters), and fly across Europe, arriving in Albania on 26 April, 1994, with our 6-month-old baby. When God first spoke to us, we had no financial assurance, no Albanian language skills, no Bible College training—crazy! But as we took each step of obedience in faith, God met us. We began to pastor a busy German church plant in Elbasan, central Albania, amidst revival. People were so hungry! They didn't even know what they were hungry for! They needed food, clothing, and medicines, yes, but they were also spiritually hungry.
Meanwhile, within less than two years Joanna Constance arrived. I was immersed in motherhood, missionary style! Life wasn't always easy, food wasn't plentiful, we were living and working with Germans (another culture) and Albanians (still another culture), and tensions were inevitable.
In 1997, the fledgling democracy exploded as thousands of citizens lost around $1.2 billion of savings in shady pyramid banking schemes. Their rage turned on the government, who had publicly endorsed the schemes. Gangsters overran the country, looting Army depots: virtual anarchy ensued. Nearly all foreigners fled. Intrigued English journalists asked, "So why did you stay?" Our explanation that Jesus can be trusted was aired on BBC News to millions throughout Britain.
We saw supernatural protection on several occasions, as when Luan (an Albanian coworker) was taken hostage and held at gunpoint so that a masked gang could enter our compound. Only hours before, God had impressed us to move all vehicles to a safer place. The thugs burst into an empty yard and left empty-handed, their ears ringing with the Gospel. What kept us going during these grueling months when we weren't even sure if we would find more food and when I didn't know if Nick would return from street preaching surrounded by flying bullets?
God was there through it all. We declared forty days of prayer and fasting, and five other churches joined us every morning for four hours of worship and intercession. The unity and love were amazing. By the end of six weeks I discovered my Albanian language skills markedly improved, and an even better surprise was the news that Samuel Nicholas had been conceived at the height of the violence!
Despite long hours and long days serving food and love to very poor families, my baby arrived none the worse at 10 lbs, 4 oz, attended by a Christian midwife courtesy of the National Health Service, in a beautiful birthing centre in Hampshire. This pattern of God's amazing provision has been evidenced all the way through our sixteen years in Albania. Daniel Ezra arrived in 2000. Jonathan Josiah arrived in 2003 and was born at home, in Albania, delivered by an English Christian midwife.
God has proven His name, Jehovah Jireh, over and over again as we have run a busy ministry and homeschooled five children. Imagine our incredulous delight when God began speaking about us buying land and building a home! Without telling others our needs, God prompted people to provide all the finances. A beautiful house is now under construction on a breathtaking hill spanning views to the east, south, and west of Albania. I delightedly proclaim: Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, unto Him be glory! (See Ephesians 3:20.)
As Joshua and Joanna grew and Samuel Nicholas arrived, homeschooling began to evolve with lots of fun, preschool material. Teaching Josh and Joanna to read and write was no problem, and Samuel almost taught himself!
In 2000 Daniel Ezra arrived whilst we were on furlough in the UK. We were tentatively putting out feelers for some sort of programme to help me teach Josh, now 7; Joanna, 5; and Samuel 2½ (and already beginning to read and write). We stumbled upon the ACE programme, distributed in the UK by TEACH (The European Academy for Christian
Homeschooling). We jumped at the opportunity to brush shoulders with more experienced homeschoolers (deemed as very strange creatures in the UK at the time).
Being isolated on the mission field created the big challenge of finding others to advise and encourage us. Thankfully TEACH's pastoral director was always there on the other end of the telephone!
As we live in the mission house/church centre and Albanians are tremendously friendly, sociable creatures, we soon realized I couldn't maintain "school" and minister to all the urgent and desperate cases coming my way. We decided to rent a room 100 yards down the road, in a neighbour's house. There we "did" school for about seven years. It meant turning a blind eye to most of my domestic duties! A dear lady in the church came and cleaned the house and cooked a basic lunch for us each day. Thankfully, because most people (including me!) now realise I am not available in the mornings, we have been able to resume school at home.
Last but not the least of our fabulous children is Jonathan Josiah, born here, in the church office in fact, in a portable birthing pool. He is now 7 years old. All five are now in school using the ACE programme.
We have had to diversify somewhat with one of our boys who has been diagnosed with dyslexia. Back in the UK, summer 2009, we visited an educational specialist who offered practical advice on tackling some of our boy's special needs. We found a great programme from the U.S. (advertised in TOS magazine actually) called Math-U-See, which our son has been enjoying. We also bought a handbook for teaching dyslexics, recommended in the UK, called The Hickey Multisensory Language Course (ISBN 1-86156-178-4, Publisher's website: www.whurr.co.uk), and from that I developed exercises and flash cards (used daily). This child still apparently "hates" reading and writes only under duress, but he is slowly and surely gaining confidence. The only drawback to the Math-U-See programme is that it requires a bit more teacher preparation than I find I can give. My boy would get more from this programme if I were more involved. Maybe that could be said of most things. However, the beauty of the ACE programme is that a not-very-organized, over-committed, multi-tasking, wish-I-was-a-lot-better-at-this-than-I-am, homeschooling mother of five can give each of her kids something resembling a fairly decent education!
How quickly we have moved from nappies and preschoolers, etc., to teenagers and preparation for the big, wide world! It has really taken us by surprise. This year Joshua will graduate with his ICCE (International Certificate of Christian Education) General Certificate (the equivalent of UK GCSE O' levels). He is then planning on spending much of 2011 in Germany. He will be living with some former missionary friends, working and learning the language, before starting sixth form College in the UK, at age 17, nearly 18, in September. Meanwhile, the rest of the family will be remaining here, on the mission field that God led us to more than sixteen years ago. Thanks to homeschooling, we have been able to remain faithful to God's call to be His ambassadors in the land where atheists once proclaimed to the world: "There is no God!"
It would be misleading to say this journey has been without heartache, without challenges and disappointments. It might sound strange, but every painful experience we have had has been the result of our lack of knowledge about the goodness of God. He's been immensely patient, longing to bless us and to use us to bless this most needy nation.
Copyright, 2011. All rights reserved by author.
Originally appeared in The Old Schoolhouse® Magazine, Winter 2010-11.
Used with permission. Visit them at theoldschoolhouse.com and view a sample copy of the magazine.


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Tuesday, April 1, 2008
Needles and pins
I've seen a test for determining whether motives and intentions contribute to the rightness or wrongness of an action. The thought is that if certain intentions or motives can constitute a kind of wrong (e.g., the motive of malice), when present and there are no overriding reasons to perform X, it is impermissible to X and this is chalked up to the deontic significance of the motive that would lead to X-ing. I can't help but think that this can't be the right test. It seems that someone who puts pins in a cushion might act from the motive from malice, there might be no further reasons that bear on whether to place the pins there, but I just can't accept that they've acted impermissibly in putting the pins to the doll and ought to have acted otherwise.
I'd like to think a slightly more promising test that would also support the idea that motives and intentions can contribute to the wrongness of an action is this. We do not ask whether the agent ought to act otherwise or acts impermissibly in acting from a certain motive or on a certain intention, but ask instead whether they will thereby generate further duties that they ought not feel free creating. I'm not sure how well this proposal stands up to the example. I guess we could say that someone who acts from the motive of hexing another thereby has a duty to work on his self-control? Maybe they have a duty to seek forgiveness from their intended victim? I sort of like this account, but I have to confess I'd not want to have to respond to the argument from silly malicious attempts if I ever were to defend the view that motives and intentions can have deontic significance.
13 comments:
- John Turri said...
Do you think that acting from malice, in the case you describe, makes the action bad, or at least worse than it otherwise would have been?
- April 1, 2008 at 10:16 PM
- Clayton said...
That's just it, I don't have the strong intuition that it makes this action bad, wrong, etc... But, I can't quite see saying that _and_ saying that it generates duties you oughtn't feel free to generate as that would seem to be a feature that contributes to the badness/wrongness of the action. So, I'm at a bit of a loss.
Anyway, if I had more intuitions to consult beyond my own I'd have a better sense of what to say.
- April 1, 2008 at 10:20 PM
- John Turri said...
Hmm. I don't know about duties and wrongness and whatnot. But I do find it obvious that, if we compare the action you describe to one that is motivated by kind consideration, and ask which is better, then the one motivated by kind consideration wins hands down.
- April 1, 2008 at 10:26 PM
- Brandon said...
It seems to me that the line of argument in the post treats motive as if it were simply separate from the actions: instead of, e.g., an action being understood as drawing water from a well in order to poison someone, it's treated as if it were really just drawing water from a well; and then there's a separate sort of pre-action that's having the motive of poisoning someone. Or, to use the example, instead of the action being trying to hex someone by putting pins in a cushion it's just putting pins in a cushion and happens, in Adam's case, to get paired with the completely separate issue, hoping to put a hex on someone. A sort of dualism of action, so to speak: the motive is a sort of ghost on top of the machinery of the action. That would seem a bit odd. But perhaps you have something else in view?
- April 2, 2008 at 5:17 AM
- Clayton said...
I don't think it's that odd. Think about an example of Thomson's. A man tries to poison his wife but it turns out that what he puts in her soup is the very thing that will cure her disease. (He doesn't know she has a disease much less that the stuff he's putting in her soup would cure someone with that disease.)
We can ask 'Was it wrong for him to put the stuff in her soup?', and it might at first seem not since the stuff cured what ailed her. We can then ask whether it was wrong to do it from the motive that led him to put the stuff in the soup and ask whether that leads to a different answer.
Some say that he acted permissibly, but I think even if that is so, there's the further question as to whether the action was wrong. (I think an action can be wrong without being all-things considered wrong.) Others say that this is to confuse judgments about the man's character with deontic judgments. I'm sort of inclined to say that this is too simple.
Even if we focused on his trying to poison her, some will say that this was permissible since it was the very thing that would cure her. I don't think it's committing us to think that the motive is a 'ghost' as you put it. It's a feature of the story and we can ask whether it is a wrong making feature and what actions it makes wrongful.
Hey John,
I'd agree about the badness, but it's hard to know what deontic significance this evaluative judgment has.
- April 2, 2008 at 7:31 AM
- Brandon said...
Again, that seems odd to me. The situation doesn't divide into two parts, the motive part and the actual action, which just happen to occur in succession; his action is the attempt to poison his wife -- incompetently, as it happens, but incompetent attempts are attempts, and what makes an action an attempt is motive, intention, etc.
Consider the following cases:
The man, intending to poison his wife, puts something in her soup that by sheer accident cures her.
The man, intending to poison his wife, by sheer accident (in doing something else) puts something in her soup, and it cures her.
The man, intending to cure his wife, by sheer accident (in doing something else) puts something in her soup, and it cures her.
The man, intending to cure his wife, puts something in her soup, and by sheer accident it cures her.
The only things these have in common are the man, the wife, the soup, and the fact that they happen to share at some level an element of description, "puts something in her soup". But the mere fact that their descriptions have the same element of description doesn't entail that the actions have the same sub-action. It just entails that they are similar enough to be partially described by the same words.
What makes the 'motive' a ghost is that it becomes, as it were, disembodied. The whole series is regarded not as an action involving motive, means, opportunity, success, etc. but as a little train of actions,
as if motive were a pre-action action and perhaps even as if consequence were a post-action action, and each of them were evaluated as different actions, which just happen to be linked with the others. So we can mix and match motive and action, without affecting evaluation.
Compare: We can ask whether writing on the board is a mental action and it seems it is not, because it involves a body; and we can then ask whether it's a mental action if caused by a mind, and wonder whether that leads to a different answer. But that's just to say that we can be dualists, and put the mind over here in its causal realm and the body over there in its causal realm and arbitrarily link the two. But that seems to be what's going on here. I have motive (mental intent, desire, whatever, like wanting to kill someone) and I have action (bodily behavior, like putting something in their soup), and the two are linked arbitrarily so that the one can be analyzed and therefore evaluated independently of the other.
So are we all supposed to become Cartesians, or is there a non-dualist way to make sense of this that doesn't assume that parts of descriptions of actions correspond to independent parts of actions?
- April 2, 2008 at 8:34 AM
- Dru said...
This might be simply stating your position in a different way, but I tend to approach this issue in this manner. To me deontological questions of ethics point toward the ethical standing of a person, with the end argument being in the form "Jim has a positive/negative trait which causes him to do this positive/negative act." In looking at the action however, you never get to a statement about the character of the person. You will always reduce the situation to the sum of the related causes and effects.
Additionally, it doesn't appear to me that either of these methods are incompatible. It depends on what sort of ethical question you ask. To find out the conditions under which sticking pins in a pincushion would be right or wrong, deontic approaches are useless. You will only find out if the person doing the pinning has something in their intent which both leads them to the action and is a desirable or undesirable trait for an ethical person. You will never get to an ethical statement which is explicitly ABOUT the pins and their being stuck through some felt. That is the realm of a more utilitarian approach.
It seems that what you're saying isn't remarkably similar, though I'm not quite sure I understand this argument modeled on creation of duty.
- April 2, 2008 at 8:44 PM
It seems to me like the issue in the pincushion case is with beliefs rather than motives. When we care about the wrongness of actions, there are times when we care about each of the following things:
- whether the action actually turns out bad
- whether the agent believed that the action would turn out bad
- whether it would have been reasonable to believe that the action would turn out bad
(And we might be able to break the third one down further.)
One way to deal with this is to say that there are multiple senses of wrongness. There's a sense in which Adam acted wrongly, since he believed pin-sticking could cause hexes, and hexing is wrong. But the weirdness of his beliefs, and their differentness from real causal processes, makes us not especially concerned about that sense of wrong. But in other cases we might care more about that sense of wrongness, like if someone thought a toy gun was real & loaded, pointed it at someone else, and pulled the trigger (or if a would-be terrorist stuck a bunch of silly putty to the underside of a bridge and lit a fuse).
Another way to put it is that it's impermissible to hex, and Adam has committed an attempted hexing, but he was lucky to have chosen an ineffective means of hexing. (In fact, there are no effective means of hexing, but I'm not sure if that matters.)
- April 3, 2008 at 10:09 AM
- Clayton said...
Let me try this approach. Suppose I'm mixing up some soup and while I don't know this, it's poisonous. I feed it to my guests. Have I done something I (morally) shouldn't have?
I'd say yes, but if my ignorance is non-culpable it is an instance of excusable wrongdoing.
Next door, someone who knows more about mushrooms follows the same recipe knowingly putting poisonous mushrooms into the soup. I'd say he's also done something he shouldn't. We might say, as JT does, that this is in some sense _worse_, but the question is whether this person's knowingly contravening the norm I've unwittingly contravened is the ground of an additional sort of wrong? Last, we might add that he did this _not_ because, say, he thought the taste was so important that he thought a bit of food poisoning would be worth it. We might say that he did it simply because he despised his guests.
I'd say in these three cases there is a common element of wrongdoing. Getting a look at the explanatory reasons that distinguish these cases, do we see additional wrong-making features?
In the original case, I just don't have the intuition that trying to put the hex on someone is itself impermissible. I'd agree with those who think this makes the putting of the pins into the stuffed pin holder worse, but I'm just not sure that this evaluative judgment is grounds for any judgment about wrongness.
- April 4, 2008 at 12:31 AM
- Dru said...
the important distinction to my mind, is that it is a separate wrong, not a case of more or less wrong. let me explain using your soup example...
in the case of the innocent soup chef: poisoning dinner guests is wrong, though naively doing so makes a positive comment on the chef's character (esp. if he/she is contrite).
in the case of the malicious soup chef: poisoning dinner guests is wrong, though purposefully doing so points to a separate problem, namely a maliciousness in the chef.
now this second wrong, in my mind, cannot make the poisoned soup more or less wrong.
as a counterexample, take this. person A shoots and kills another person. person B shoots and kills 5. we could easily say that person A is less wrong than person B, as they killed 4 less people.
this analysis however does not hold in the soup example. the malicious chef has committed an offense which is not present in the case of the innocent chef (his maliciousness). therefore, while the malicious chef may be more morally objectionable, it would be because of a multitude of offenses, not a single offense which is intelligibly more wrong.
- April 4, 2008 at 1:16 AM
- John Turri said...
You said, "I'd agree about the badness, but it's hard to know what deontic significance this evaluative judgment has."
I don't know if it automatically has deontic significance. However, if one thought that an action's wrongness is a function of its badness (at least, its badness relative to other alternatives available to the agent at the time), then one might think it possible for the badness added by the malevolent motive to tip the scales in favor of the prospective action being wrong.
- April 4, 2008 at 6:09 AM
- Brandon said...
I don't see any common element of wrongdoing for all of the three cases (the first seems significantly different to me). But if I were to take as a supposition that there is, in fact, such a common element, I think I would say this: 'should' (like 'moral wrongdoing', etc.) can actually mean slightly different things, and what makes the puzzle is that the successive case adds 'wrongdoing' in a slightly different sense from the sense in which the previous one involved wrongdoing. This can be seen if we put matters in terms of moral responsibility for an action that deviates from the good. In one sense of moral responsibility, you are responsible for the negative effects of actions you had no power to prevent or foresee, simply because, in fact, they were the effects of your actions. In another, you are responsible for them in the sense that the causal explanation of that particular action involves your deliberately intending to do something that had that bad feature (in this case, the poisoning of people). In another, you are responsible for them in the sense that you not only intended to do it, but the causal explanation for your intending to do it involves some badness for which you are (in some way) responsible. And so on. And so what we need to do to determine the deontic significance of the evaluative judgment is to figure out what in the world the evaluative judgment really is in the first place.
- April 7, 2008 at 12:24 AM
- Udoka said...
I am just a student(yah, I'm Udoka in your 11am class), but I enjoy reading your blog. This is a subject I have been thinking about all last semester because we had an Rhetoric assignment about it. I was very frustrated because we never went into as much detail as this.
In class, I played the devil's advocate saying that actions are seperate from intentions because intentions and consequences of actions do not necesarily match. At the time, all I cared about was the consequences. I guess now I know that that's some sort of pragmatism, right?
But then today in class we talked about dualism and how silly it is. To seperate intention from action reminds me too much of dualism because the intention occurs in the mind and the action occurs in the body. I think in class you were implying that you are anti-dualist and you believe there is a connection between body and mind and so there is a connection between intention and action.
I feel that in a matter like this, we shouldn't seperate intention and action and consequence. If you wanted to poison your wife but instead accidentally cured her, it doesn't remove the fact that you are dangerous and if you had the proper means would have created terrible consequences. Even though they haven't happened, you are willing it to happen. For some reason I think that is almost as bad as it actually happening.
I don't really know how to explain my ideas as well as these other people here. Maybe I am misusing terms. I didn't even know what deontic meant before reading this. I guess I'm just babbling naively. But maybe it makes you feel better that a student is trying? :)
- April 7, 2008 at 10:20 PM


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New Study: 70% Of People Find 'Piracy' Socially Acceptable [Updated]
from the you-can't-combat-that dept
However, it looks like even more data is supporting that position. TorrentFreak points us to a new study coming out of Denmark -- where the entertainment industry has been extra aggressive in trying to "crack down" on unauthorized file sharing and to "educate" the public on why such activities are wrong. And, yet, the study shows that 70% of people still find unauthorized downloading to be socially acceptable in some form or another. 15 to 20% say that it's totally acceptable, with the rest saying that it's acceptable within certain boundaries. Where people begin to think it's not acceptable is when it involves downloading the works of others and then selling them. This isn't all that surprising, and fits with what we've seen elsewhere, but it's still interesting to see the numbers.
What's also interesting is that these numbers are almost identical to what a similar study found over a decade ago. In other words, despite tons of money, lawsuits, lobbying, education campaigns, advertising, threats, news reports and the like -- all telling people that unauthorized downloading was unquestionably morally wrong -- it's had almost no impact on people's attitude towards the practice, and the vast majority find it socially acceptable. That certainly suggests that my position has a pretty strong basis in fact. Historically, it's very, very difficult to convince people that something they feel is socially acceptable is morally evil. And that's likely to be true in this arena as well. So why does the industry keep insisting that they can change that basic fact?
Update: Good discussion in the comments digging into the details of the study. It becomes clear that there are very different levels of what the folks surveyed believe is socially acceptable. What it suggests is that only 30% say that unauthorized sharing is always unacceptable, while the remaining 70% is across the spectrum in terms of how socially acceptable it may be and under what circumstances. I don't think that changes the overall point -- but it is good context for the discussion.


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SYCAMORE – Joseph Listy was born in Switzerland in 1841. After immigrating to the United States as a young boy with his parents, he enlisted with Company K, 5th Regiment, Wisconsin Volunteers Infantry on Sept. 4, 1864.
According to the Sycamore True Republican, Listy's wrist was so badly shattered by a bullet during the Battle of Richmond that "he was hardly able to use the member."
He was hospitalized until the war ended.
Listy is one of eight local Civil War veterans who will be featured during the Sycamore History Museum's 15th annual cemetery walk, "Etched in Stone," on Sunday at Elmwood Cemetery. The event will begin at 1 p.m. at the cemetery's Charles Street entrance.
"This is always one of our most popular programs," said Michelle Donahoe, executive director of the Sycamore History Museum. "This year's cemetery walk will be a great example of how our local history connects to national history."
Museum archives Chairwoman Ann Rosenfeld said the committee spent more than six months researching the project to commemorate the 150th anniversary of the Civil War.
"We try to do something a little different every year," she said.
Although no battles were fought in Sycamore, Rosenfeld said she thinks as many as 644 DeKalb County men served in the war, 225 of whom are buried in Elmwood Cemetery.
The walk will feature veterans buried in the cemetery's Soldiers Row by the Sons of Union Veterans. In addition to Listy, other veterans to be featured are Peter Butts, James Petrie, Sven Peterson, Enoch Marchant, Edward Williams, Benjamin Snow and Rueben Collins Brown.
The walk also will include stories about the 1865 cemetery gates, which were built during the war, a Civil War correspondent and the Women's Relief Corps. The afternoon will end with veteran Sam Jones playing taps.
The suggested donation is $5 a person.
For information, call 815-895-5762 or visit sycamorehistory.org.


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Incoming college freshmen might be stocked up on school supplies, dorm furnishings and the latest tech gadgets, but they also need to be equipped with the right financial guidance before heading off to school.
Continue Reading Below
According to a recent survey of 40,000 first year college students conducted by education technology company EverFi, students are already showing risky monetary behaviors as freshmen.
Of the population of students who had a credit card, 23.7% have more than $1,000 in credit card debt, 35% report typically only making minimum payments and 7.5% admit paying a bill late at least once in the past year.
Discussing financial responsibilities and negative consequences of poor financial habits can help prevent students becoming buried in debt and establish budget skills that will continue into adulthood.
"By the time they're out and on their own, if they don't have these skills down, they're really behind the curve and at a disadvantage," says Robert Stammers, director of Investor Education at CFA Institute. "It's so important for parents to take the time to use [college] to really start enforcing these types of financial management rules and use it as a learning experience."
To avoid panic mid-semester, here's the four financial topics experts say families should discuss before students leave for campus.
Topic No. 1: Determine Financial Obligations
Creating a budget and determining which party is responsible for what costs can help stave off overspending and late payments.
If parents are financially supporting their child, making a "needs vs. want" list can help students better understand how to live within their means, says Steven Smith CEO of Finicity, maker of money management program Mvelopes.
"Approved purchases could include food, necessary transportation expenses, and a specific amount for clothing," he says. Be sure to set limits on what is considered appropriate spending for each category.
If students plan to work while in school, it's important to discuss expectations for how much the student will be working as well as how much they will contribute towards college costs, says Scott Halliwell, certified financial planner at USAA.
"It's great for [students] in terms of managing their finances so they get the understanding of, I made this money myself and it's not just my parents giving it to me--it really helps with some real life balancing skills," he says.
Topic No. 2: Discuss Expectations of Credit Card Use
Responsible credit card use is one of the biggest issues for college students, according to experts.
With the CARD Act of 2009 in place, students will likely have to co-sign on a credit card account with a parent or become an authorized user of their parent's card.
Halliwell cautions parents from putting their credit score at risk by co-signing for their child without establishing when it's acceptable to swipe for a purchase.
"That doesn't mean that you shouldn't [co-sign] but if you're going to do it, you need to make sure you and your child understand what responsibility that is and what's at risk if they don't take care of it," he says.
Implicating a "for emergency use only" policy can keep temptation to a minimum and prevent students from racking up discretionary spending debt, recommends Stammers.
Topic No. 3: Set Student Loan Limits
Having a discussion about student loan debt at the beginning of college can help prevent over borrowing and panic when it's time for students to start the repayment process.
Smith suggests creating a spending plan outlining what the loan funds should and should not be used for, and how much students can expect to pay per month after graduating using a loan repayment calculator.
"Helping them understand how long it will take to repay it and how much of their post-graduation monthly budget will be tied up in the student loan repayment will hopefully help them be fiscally responsible while in college," he says.
Bringing up the issue of student loan debt from the start can also shape students' experience while in school, says Jonathan Clements, director of Financial Education at Citi Personal Wealth Management.
"You may want to focus yourself on earning additional money so you don't end up with quite so much in loans, you should be really focused on trying to graduate within the four years so you don't end up with an unnecessarily large amount of loans and you may want to factor that into your decision about your major," he says.
Topic No. 4: Have an Emergency Back Up Plan
Everyone makes financial mistakes, and parents should set parameters on when they will be willing to step in and help if a student gets in financial constraints.
"If parents are smart, they will tell their college bound teenagers to call at the first sign of the financial trouble because if the trouble has only just begun, it may be a lot easier to resolve than if it's left to drag on for months and months," says Clements.
While it's ultimately parents' decision about how they choose to handle the situation, allowing students to learn from their mistakes and how to fix them first-hand is an invaluable lesson, says Stammers.
"The reality is that you're going to get the calls anyway, and you're not going to let your children starve or run out of money," he says. "But as they get that experience of not managing their money well, you'll find that you get the calls less and less because you put that responsibility on them."


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But, being from South Carolina, I am kind of immune to Baptist criticisms of anything....
Don't believe everything you think.
The more I know, the less I know.
.... He decided to wait until thanksgiving, and he was less than pleased with the results-- no fighting or ridicule but a sort of anticlimactic resignation to his son's whims.. a phase perhaps.
I am from NY and for the past few years + I have been living in the south...wow...it is a totally different world down here-church included !
The South is also becoming more diverse religiously as well. The Baptists are not the only show in town here. In my medium sized city of Greenville, SC, we have an Islamic mosque, a Hindu temple, two Jewish congregations (one Conservative and one Reformed) and a rather LARGE Unitarian "church" ( most of whose members are burned out fundagelicals by the way.)
I much prefer LIVING in the South--but I much prefer the Church life in the North
The plot thickens......
What do you mean, Bob? Anastasios
For me, it's sucked, a lot. It's been about a year and a half now, and my mother hasn't even gotten to the "civil but cold" stage.
I lived in the South for 11 years, and as soon as I can (in June) I am going back.
Any place north of Fredericksburg, VA is not the south.
In a sense, my conversion to Orthodoxy wasn't so bad, because before I had been interested in the Latin Church, which was just the kiss of death to her, although she would never admit that now. At least Orthodoxy wasn't in communion with Rome!
What is the MBFGW topic?
Amazed a thread from 2004 was brought back to life....anyhoo.Lost all of my friends, my social circle and support circle. And during that transition time I also happened to lose my job and move across the country. It was and still is not an easy path to follow. Islam was all encompassing for so long that becoming Christian literally required a death and rebirth if everything
Quote from: RehamG on June 08, 2014, 01:28:56 PMAmazed a thread from 2004 was brought back to life....anyhoo.Lost all of my friends, my social circle and support circle. And during that transition time I also happened to lose my job and move across the country. It was and still is not an easy path to follow. Islam was all encompassing for so long that becoming Christian literally required a death and rebirth if everythingare you the OP or the OP's friend?
I have this concern also - - how and when am I going to tell my Christian friends (who are Reformed/Presby) when the time comes. The Presbyterian church I currently attend is my "family" and support system, as I have no family here where I live. I am very active and plugged in there and recently they have supported me (spiritually) and have helped me get through a very difficult period in my life. Over the summer I'll be attending there on some Sundays, others I'll be attending liturgy at the Orthodox church.I have yet to go through any type of inquirer's class on Orthodoxy at my local church but there may be one starting up in the fall, so I've been told. If they are conducted on a Sunday rather than during the week, then I guess I'm just going to have to make a clean break from the church I'm currently in. I am just praying that the Lord give me guidance as to how to phase out of my old church and towards the Orthodox church.
Quote from: Justin Kissel on June 08, 2014, 03:40:43 AMWhat is the MBFGW topic? I began my search with two sets of clues: the posting times in this thread (December 6-20, 2004) and the two discussions it spawned ("artificial insemination" and "MBFGW").First, a quick google led me to tentatively conclude that MBFGW stood for My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Thus, I searched the Reviews subforum for such a discussion from around this time period. The result was this. Except for a few overlapping posters, a quick skim through the page revealed no immediate connection to this present page however. I had to find something more convincing.Off to the Free-For-All I went. A search of "artificial insemination" in the Non-Religious Topics sub-forum came up nothing useful. At wit's end, I turned to Religious Topics. That is when I found this other thread.The timelines for all three threads matched but could I find anything more? That's when it dawned on me: the quote in the opening post in Artificial Insemination was taken, word-for-word, from the My Big Fat Greek Wedding thread! Considering how everything seems to interlock perfectly, I have to conclude that the topic MBFGW topic is indeed none other than My Big Fat Greek Wedding.You're welcome... I guess.
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