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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Counterexamples to Relativity"
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I would like to suggest that this be removed as both points (1. lack of data and 2. divergence from relativistic predictions) were disproved by the publishing of [http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/722/2/1030/ this paper] in The Astrophysical Journal in 2010. [[User:Fnarrow|Fnarrow]] 00:35, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
I would like to suggest that this be removed as both points (1. lack of data and 2. divergence from relativistic predictions) were disproved by the publishing of [http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/722/2/1030/ this paper] in The Astrophysical Journal in 2010. [[User:Fnarrow|Fnarrow]] 00:35, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
==Force acting on a mass==
==Force acting on a mass==
The example, "The logical problem of a force which is applied at a right angle to the velocity of a relativistic mass - does this act on the rest mass or the relativistic mass?" needs to be rephrased to be more clear. Are we talking about measuring the force applied to the object or the change in trajectory of the object? The force acts on the object, but the sentence is phrased as if there are two different
The example, "The logical problem of a force which is applied at a right angle to the velocity of a relativistic mass - does this act on the rest mass or the relativistic mass?" needs to be rephrased to be more clear. Are we talking about measuring the force applied to the object or the change in trajectory of the object? The force acts on the object, but the sentence is phrased as if there are two different . The force will cause the trajectory of the object to change, which can be measured in specified frames of reference
. Thanks, [[User:Wschact|Wschact]] 22:42, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
Revision as of 22:16, 8 April 2013
For a point-by-point summary of this page, see Essay - Counterexamples to relativity points.
See also the page Essay:Rebuttal to Counterexamples to Relativity
|This Talk Page is for Discussion Focused on the Improvement of the Corresponding Article
Archives:1, 2, 3
|For article guidelines please see the Commandments and Guidelines
- 1 Notice of Pending Revision
- 2 Relativity breaks down if a solenoid is traveling at or near the speed of light.
- 3 Previous arguments
- 4 A few more things
- 5 Recent reversion
- 6 Neutrinos do not travel faster than light
- 7 GPS and Relativity
- 8 Biblical Examples
- 9 The roundness of the sun
- 10 Gravitational waves found
- 11 Lede quote
- 12 Removing material
- 14 Force acting on a mass
Notice of Pending Revision
It's been over a week now since the reversion (on 9th December) of several edits I made. Despite my request, now explanation has been posted, in contrast to the explanations I gave for each of my changes. I therefore see it only fit to return the article to the state I left it in.
However, to avoid 'edit wars' I think it only fair to give notification of this, to allow a final chance for justification of the reversion.
The specific changes are:
- Removal of the item: '27. Relativity requires different values for the inertia of a moving object: in its direction of motion, and perpendicular to that direction. This contradicts the logical principle that the laws of physics are the same in all directions.' since it is a duplicate of '10. The logical problem of a force which is applied at a right angle to the velocity of a relativistic mass -- does this act on the rest mass or the relativistic mass?'
- Removal of '26. The lack of useful devices developed based on any insights provided by the theory; no lives have been saved or helped, and the theory has not led to other useful theories and may have interfered with scientific progress. This stands in stark contrast with every verified theory of science.' After much discussion on this page, it seems generally agreed that there useful devices in existence. (I appreciate that some mention of GPS may be necessary, but a footnote, however valid, cannot justify the presence of the invalid section in the main article to which it is attached. GPS can have it's own separate entry on this page as a counterexample, if need be.)
AugustO 10:35, 31 December 2011 (EST)
- Removal of '30. The Ehrenfest Paradox ...', '31. The Twin Paradox ...' and '10. The logical problem of a force which is applied at a right angle...' since these are paradoxes and (as discussed above) are not appropriate to a page of counterexamples. These entries have already been moved to and expanded upon in the main Relativity page.
--QPR 10:26, 17 December 2011 (EST)
- I've now implemented these changes since no objection has been forthcoming to my explaination above, posted in accordance with editting etiquette. If there are any objections please discuss them here rather than engaging in revert wars. --QPR 13:36, 30 December 2011 (EST)
- Sorry, just noticing these comments now. Let's discuss before removing insights from entries.
- Items 27 and 10 are similar, but not identical. 27 highlights a conflict between Relativity and basic principles of physics; item 10 emphasizes an internal contradiction in the theory that remains unanswered.
- Item 26 remains unrebutted. Relativity has produced nothing of value.
- Item 30 and 31 are logical problems which are valid counterexamples, given that Relativity claims to be based on logic.--Andy Schlafly 22:58, 30 December 2011 (EST)
Items 10, 27, and 31 should be taken out because they are just wrong, and make Conservapedia look lazy. Anyone who has learned about relativity from any college-level textbook less than about 40 or 50 years old knows how to do the calculations involving relativistic velocity, momentum, force, and acceleration. Our readers know this, and items 10 and 27 will just leave them scratching their heads about the diligence of Conservapedia. Item 31, the "twin paradox", is also very well known. The fact that something has the word "paradox" in its name doesn't mean that the subject is flawed. Otherwise, we would have to take the Russel paradox too seriously, and perhaps conclude that this: "The next sentence is false. The preceding sentence is true" means that the universe will blow up. The phrase "twin paradox" is simply a name. Everyone knows what is going on. Even Einstein. If it were actually a counterexample, this fact would be well known by now.JudyJ 10:11, 31 December 2011 (EST)
- 10: The logical problem of a force which is applied at a right angle to the velocity of a relativistic mass - does this act on the rest mass or the relativistic mass? It applies to the relativistic mass: that is observable in a cyclotron. So, it is one of those question you may speculate or philosophy all day long, but do the experiment (and the mass), and it is answered.
- 27: Relativity requires different values for the inertia of a moving object: in its direction of motion, and perpendicular to that direction. This contradicts the logical principle that the laws of physics are the same in all directions. In light of the above, this seems to be wrong.
- 30: The Ehrenfest Paradox interesting paradox, solvable and no counterexample
- 31: The Twin Paradox no counterexample to relativity, it's solved in any physic's course on this subject
- 26: The lack of useful devices developed based on any insights provided by the theory please re-read the archives, they include plenty material on the GPS (though you seem to ignore it)
AugustO 10:36, 31 December 2011 (EST)
On the points 10 and 27 issue, whilst they may or may not be duplicates, may or may not be counterexamples, they're still just plain wrong, reflecting a fundamental misunderstanding of the basics of relativity. According to Special Relativity, the inertial mass of a body appears the same to all observers who are in the same inertial frame of reference (i.e. who are moving at the same velocity as each other, which may be different from that of the body being observed). If a force is applied to the body it will produce an acceleration of the same magnitude (though obviously in a different direction) regardless of the direction of the force. The force itself can in no sense be an 'observer' since it has no velocity. For observers in a different non-inertial frame, they will observe a different magnitude of acceleration, but it will still be the same regardless of the direction of the force. --QPR 12:27, 31 December 2011 (EST)
I deleted #10 and #27. AugustO 11:06, 1 January 2012 (EST)
Andy, you've reverted an edit that everyone involved in the discussion other than yourself seems to be agreed upon. Can you please at least attempt to justify your position? --QPR 13:20, 1 January 2012 (EST)
- deletion of educational information is disfavored on this site; deletions restored How can the perpetuation of false information be educational? AugustO 15:37, 1 January 2012 (EST)
This entire page is ludicrous. If you don't believe in Einstein's relativity, then do you believe in Galilean relativity? If Einstein's relativity is correct up to small corrections, does it invalidate cultural relativism? Ironically, this page signifies to me that Conservapedia itself is an exercise in relative truth; the idea that individuals are entitled to make up whatever facts are consistent with their preconceptions. Aram 16:26, 1 January 2012 (EST)
Relativity breaks down if a solenoid is traveling at or near the speed of light.
As a source for the statement this discussion on physicsforum.org is given. Here are all the contributions to this discussion:
|A Dhingra
|The moment the magnetic field is generated, it should take some time to reach some distance. It cannot reach infinity instantly, it should have some speed, and that speed cannot be more than that of light. So let's say that the newly generated magnetic field, through a current carrying wire, travels with the speed of light. Now for the application of the faraday's law, let's bring a magnet near a solenoid, through which initially no current flows, and make the magnet move with the speed of light. Will there be electromagnetic induction observed in this case?
Take another case, when instead of a magnet we have a different circuit containing a solenoid through which current flows when the switch is made on, and this circuit is held stationary moving the other one with the speed of light. Will there be electromagnetic induction observed in this case? What I think is that, as the system without current is moving as fast as the magnetic field … it never gets the chance to cut the magnetic field and cause induction to occur in the solenoid. So there should be no induction. But there is relative motion between the two systems and (also there is NO time varying magnetic field through the moving solenoid,)AND no induced current will be produced ... so will the induction take place or not...?? if induction does not take place then the principle or relativity goes wrong......
|You cannot make a magnet move with the speed of light. It is a physically impossible premise, so you shouldn't be surprised that assuming it leads to contradictions.
|A Dhingra
|... can't it be just a thought experiment like many other paradoxes available....
with that assumption, think about the result.......
|Obviously, if you violate the principle of relativity in your question then the answer must be that the principle of relativity is violated. It is just the most basic logic. Non-physical assumptions lead to non-physical conclusions. This says nothing whatsoever about physics, only about your question.
|A Dhingra
i agree that the situation is not realistic........ but still i didn't like the fact that one should not think beyond the laws made by humans himself.......
|This is elementary logic. If you have any set of axioms (A) which logically imply some result (B) then if your premise is not(B) then you must logically conclude not(A). This is called transposition and is one of the fundamental rules of logic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_(logic)
SR logically implies that a solenoid must move slower than light (STL), therefore if you assume that a solenoid can move with the speed of light you must logically conclude that special relativity (SR) is violated. Written in the usual format for logic: (SR → STL) ↔ (~STL → ~SR)
Whether or not the situation is realistic and whether or not SR is a "law made by humans himself" is actually only a secondary concern. This is primarily an exercise in basic logic. Note that I am agreeing with your OP. Under the stated premise (~STL) you must indeed logically conclude that "the principle of relativity goes wrong" (~SR).
|to make the experiment fair you would have to calculate what would happen to the solenoid at half light speed and then go from there.
|If you want to think beyond relativity, invent your own laws of physics. If you want to explain in terms of relativity, then think within relativity.
|A Dhingra
|can you help me go about finding this result......
(considering the magnetic field to be varying with time ...... as it is getting produced ...
How does this discussion support the claim? This source seems to be unsuitable and therefore it should be deleted, and the statement marked again to be unsourced.
AugustO 02:00, 2 January 2012 (EST)
Previous arguments
I'm creating a page Essay - Counterexamples to relativity points, the purpose of this is to ensure that arguments are not repeated by people who find the article, not realising that their objections have already been discussed, and removed as part of a cleanup of the talkpage. The page is NOT a place to make points, but a place to see if your objection has already been made, and save everybody time by reading the responses yourself, and then bringing up the objection only if you have a new point to make. Because the numbers for counterexamples change, the page will not include the number of the counterexample, only the text of it. Although I will try to put them in order. I know that to begin with, many old arguments will not be included, but hopefully it will eventually become a very useful resource for those wishing to make contributions to the page. - JamesCA 21:29, 4 January 2012 (EST)
- While I appreciate the positive intent behind this idea, I do fear that it risks making Conservapedia look even sillier in this area than it already does. The problem is the implicit suggestion that this new page is in any way 'definitive'. Given that the issues surrounding Einsteinian Relativity have been discussed across the planet for over a century, and that the results of those discussions are available on-line, in textbooks and elsewhere, then it is unlikely that anyone will give a page on Conservapedia very much credence, particularly if it is seen to support this page, which puts forth views that very few with an understanding of the field share.
- The real problem is that the counterexamples page itself is not a genuine encyclopaedia entry, but the personal fiefdom of one contributor with little understanding of the subject matter and a bee in his bonnet about a spurious connection between Einsteinian Relativity and Moral Relativism. Unfortunately that contributor has administrator privileges, which he finds more effective in making his case than resorting to rational argument. Perhaps it would be better if the counterexamples page itself became an essay page, to make absoultely clear that it presents a personal point of view. --QPR 10:06, 5 January 2012 (EST)
- Anyone who finds Conservapedia silly because of this page will not think it is any sillier because of the new page. For many who see this page, it is a joke, and won't think any less of it because of the new page. The problem with turning this page into an essay is that those who support this page believe that it is not merely a page of personal opinion, but factually accurate. Perhaps I should put a disclaimer at the top of the page then? Something like 'this should not be seen as approving of the counterexamples, but as approval of productive discussion concerning the points'. Also, it should be noted that at the moment, every counterexample listed on the new page have outstanding objections to them, which have not been answered. - JamesCA 21:05, 5 January 2012 (EST)
- I hate to go raining on the parade again here, but science is argued by evidence--it is not enough to produce a counter example and highlight the "god of the gaps". There are paradoxical observations under any established paradigm in any field. This does not mean that the entire paradigm is incorrect, simply that there are gaps in the evidence that must be addressed in order to improve extant models. This is the primary reason that trained scientists find this page silly. There are tons of holes in relativity, just as there were massive holes in Darwin's original theory of natural selection (as a biologist, I am far more familiar with how the latter example has been, quite successfully, addressed), the notion that "there are some discrepancies with theory X, therefore goddidit" is an obvious logical fallacy. Rather than poking holes in an outdated model, it is far more scientific to argue in favor of an alternate model using evidence. The central caveat here, and one that must be carefully beaten out of every experiment, is that evidence cannot be approached with the intention of supporting a particular hypothesis--a model must be built around the evidence, not the other way around. That's why scientists laugh at the term "creation science", science is not about hunting for evidence in support of a pre-formed theory, it is about impartially collecting evidence and then letting said evidence speak for itself.
- Having said that. I must acknowledge that this article is not explicitly (although, it is implied) about advancing one viewpoint over another--it is simply about highlighting perceived inconsistencies in the theory of relativity. By itself, that is not a ridiculous premise at all. However, because this page is more of an editorial than an academic encyclopedia article, this page itself probably should have been classified as an "essay" to begin with. --RudrickBoucher 14:13, 6 January 2012 (EST)
- In my opinion, the article is really a list of anomalies and paradoxes, not counterexamples. The anomalies are observations that need some additional explanation, and that may or may not require an adjustment to relativity. The paradoxes seem like contradictions or contrary to common sense, but have explanations. RSchlafly 00:58, 7 January 2012 (EST)
- If someone thinks that Relativity must be true as a matter of logic, then any and all evidence to the contrary is not going to change that view. "Paradox" might be an appropriate term for ostensible contradictions in logic. But the terms "paradox" and "anomaly" are not suitable for observable science.--Andy Schlafly 19:00, 7 January 2012 (EST)
- No, it is the term "true as a matter of logic" that is not suitable for observable science. Perhaps your real complaint is with those who push scientific statements as being true as a matter of logic. If so, I suggest renaming the article to "Counterexamples to Einsteinian thinking". RSchlafly 01:09, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- I think at least one major college teaches Relativity as a course in the math department rather than being listed primarily in the physics department.--Andy Schlafly 15:28, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- If the terms "paradox" and "anomaly" are not suitable for observable science, what are they doing on this page? --QPR 17:26, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- Strictly speaking, all sciences are "observational" sciences; the semantic distinction between observational science and experimental science is arbitrary at best. Even in a tightly-controlled experiment, the goal is still to observe the outcome of the experiment in order to make some inference about the processes involved. In other words, an experiment is intended as nothing more than an indirect observation of natural phenomena that are not readily directly observable.
- A "paradox", by the most reductive definition, is when the available evidence suggests two contradictory hypotheses. Whereas an "anomaly" is an observation that does not conform to the hypothesis suggested by the previously available evidence. Both of these terms are quite appropriate to use in any scientific or logical context. When a scientist encounters a paradox or an anomaly, it implies that there is a fundamental gap in the theoretical understanding of his or her field. Seeking out evidence to address these gaps allows for scientists to adjust their theoretical models in order to more precisely explain the observed phenomena. --RudrickBoucher 22:32, 8 January 2012 (EST)
RudrickBoucher, since we already established that you are not a biologist, shouldn't you say "as someone who likes to pretend to be a biologist". Conservative 20:59, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- Conservative, I have a BS in cell and molecular biology (CMB) from the top undergraduate CMB program in the country, several years of laboratory experience doing developmental biology research, just as many publications (a couple of which, I first-authored), I also have teaching experience in introductory biology (AP biology and college-level intro bio), graduate level course-work in developmental biology, and, as of this coming fall, I will either be a first-year medical student or a developmental biology PhD candidate (I've been accepted into programs for both, but not a combined MD/PhD program just yet). In short, I am allowed to call myself a "biologist" because it is my profession--it may sound pretentious, but it saves on typing. --RudrickBoucher 22:32, 8 January 2012 (EST)
RudrichBoucher, a profession is something one does to earn money and have a net positive cash flow, while students often invest money in education and often have low earnings or debt accumulation. Perhaps you should consider taking an introductory course in finance so you better understand the concepts of cash flow and investment! :) I would also suggest taking a course in ethics at a Christian university so you no longer claim to be a biologist and then retract that claim like you did at this wiki. Conservative 22:48, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- I was paid for my research and for the teaching. Although, admittedly, not very well for either (as neither science nor teaching pays particularly well). I retracted the claim on the "15 questions" essay only after you had already edited it--in the name of diplomatically avoiding a pointless edit war. Similarly, I referenced my biological inclination above as a gesture of humility, to admit that my background in physics is relatively limited. On that note, what are your credentials? Have you spent seven years meticulously learning a specific field like I have? Have you published any papers? Are you a member of any professional research societies? Admittedly, I have at least another six years of education to go, but I can legitimately claim some level of expertise in my field. I don't say these things to brag, say them to lend credibility to my arguments. Finally, as I've mentioned before, I was raised Catholic and I spent my first two years of college at a Methodist school--where I did have the privilege of taking an ethics class (and I very much enjoyed it). So please, let's cut the ad hominem attacks and focus on the discussion at hand. --RudrickBoucher 23:44, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- Of those who credit Einstein for relativity, they often argue that Einstein's approach was superior because he ignored observations and presented relativity as being something that must be true as a matter of logic. The Einstein scholars acknowledge that Lorentz and Poincare had all the relativity formulas before Einstein, but Lorentz and Poincare were not true believers because they conceded that the theory could be disproved by experiment.
- So the case could be made that there is an Einsteinian-relativity-philosophy that is a is a mathematical system that allows no exceptions, that is based on postulates taken on faith, and that ignores experimental evidence. If so, then maybe the page should be explicit about what is being attacked. All real science is based on experimental evidence. RSchlafly 21:19, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- RSchlafly, please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that even Einstein considered relativity to be a mathematical approximation. One that precisely, but still somewhat inaccurately, explained the then-available evidence; in a manner similar to the proverbial physicist who, for ease of calculation, treats a horse as a circle. Anybody who has taken more than a year of calculus-based physics (or, even introductory college astronomy), knows the very real limitations of relativity. If anything, these limitations are just as dogmatic as relativity itself. Therefore, the notion that questioning relativity is taboo in intellectual circles (an underlying premise of this page) is patently ridiculous. Poking holes in relativity, and then seeking to explain them, has been one of the great ongoing projects in physics for the past seventy years. --RudrickBoucher 22:32, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- I agree that questioning relativity is not taboo. The 2011 Nobel Prize in physics was for observations that caused a modification of general relativity. The biggest physics story of the year was the Italian claim that neutrinos go faster than light, contrary to relativity. Physicists often talk about replacing relativity with some unified field theory or quantum theory. RSchlafly 02:51, 9 January 2012 (EST)
- That makes me wonder why there isn't a "Counterexamples to Quantum Mechanics" page here as well. --RudrickBoucher 09:11, 9 January 2012 (EST)
- There are a lot of anomalies and paradoxes in quantum mechanics also. RSchlafly 18:05, 9 January 2012 (EST)
A few more things
All right, more problems with this article:
15. The failure to discover gravitons, despite wasting hundreds of millions in taxpayer money in searching.
18. The inability of the theory to lead to other insights, contrary to every verified theory of physics.
24. The theory predicts natural formation of highly ordered (and thus low entropy) black holes despite the increase in entropy required by the Second Law of Thermodynamics
15: General relativity does not predict gravitons! Gravitons are massless spin-two particles predicted by QFT that lead to linear GR. (Though the spirit is different; in QFT, the h's--the metric perturbations--are a tensor representing field strength on a background Minkowski spacetime. In GR these represent curvature in spacetime.)
18: Untrue--Consider the Dirac equation. It predicted spin, which was not predicted by Schrodinger theory. It also predicted negative energy states (antiparticles), and QFT has been fundamental to particle physics.
24: Yet another horrible misunderstanding. Consider an ideal gas with N particles. Assume the total number of particles is conserved (it obviously doesn't have to be, but this is an idealized case). First of all, Newtonian gravity also predicts that a star will contract to a point without hydrostatic pressure--due to their mutual gravitational attraction. Should we start a "counterexamples to gravity" page? You've forgotten one thing: there's a term in the expression for the entropy that involves thermal energy!!! In other words (roughly speaking) the gas "warms up" so that the second law of thermodynamics is not violated. AndyFrankinson 20:43, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- Very well said! While I'm in a commenting-frenzy, I'd like to add to your points.
- Re: #15. It's not a waste of time or money to reject a hypothesis. To quote Enrico Fermi, "If the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery."
- Re: #18. Relativity HAS led to other [1].
- Re: #24. The second law of thermodynamics only applies to closed systems. In the case of stellar black hole formation, gravitational pressure must exceed the sum of the thermal pressure, supplied by ongoing fusion in the stellar core, and the core degeneracy pressure, provided courtesy of the Pauli exclusion principle. Achieving this condition is, necessarily, a very violent event, complete with giant explosions, gamma ray bursts, and spewing jets of super-heated gas. When considering the entirety of the system giving rise to a black hole, and not just the resulting black hole itself, entropy certainly does increase. --RudrickBoucher 23:19, 8 January 2012 (EST)
- Hello! Thanks for the comments. And sorry about #24, like I said, the model I gave is slightly idealized b/c I haven't studied the subject in detail. AndyFrankinson 07:58, 9 January 2012 (EST)
- No problem, I was in a bit of a commenting frenzy anyway. I'm guessing, because you referred to the ideal gas law, that you have some chemistry background?
- Also, I've had students throw the second law of thermodynamics at me when I'm trying to explain evolution. The Earth's surface isn't a closed system either because it's constantly receiving energy from the sun--so the second law of thermodynamics is inapplicable there as well. The only truly closed system that I can think of is in Washington...and, yes, entropy there is always increasing! --RudrickBoucher 09:05, 9 January 2012 (EST)
- Actually, I'm terrible at chemistry! My background is in physics and math. You talk about ideal gasses in any physics class where you discuss thermodynamics. But yeah, that's one of the classical misunderstandings among creationists. One thing I saw suggested that next time someone brings it up, ask them about the other laws of thermodynamics. What I also like about the second law of thermodynamics argument is that they don't seem to understand what entropy is and why it increases. So yeah, next time someone brings it up ask them about those things. AndyFrankinson 20:18, 9 January 2012 (EST)
- Can I please delete these "counterexamples"? AndyFrankinson 20:32, 12 January 2012 (EST)
- I say go for it. You've justified why they should be deleted and your justification has met with no objection. If somebody wishes to restore them, they are welcome to object here.
- As an aside, there does seem to be a disproportionate number of math and physics types on here. It is interesting how the life sciences tend to be predominantly liberal, whereas there's a more even distribution of political ideology in the physical sciences. There are conservative biologists (my old PI, for example), but they are very few and very far between. Knowledge of evolution does not seem to be a factor here, because understanding / acceptance of evolution is nearly universal in all of the sciences. In biology, there is a (seemingly true, in my experience) stereotypical "personality" in each of the sub-disciplines; to reference other fields, the age-old dichotomy between chemists and chemical engineers seems to mostly hold true. I have always wondered if the "personality" of the fields would lead to the observed political differences, or if maybe there is something deeper.
- Because I am afraid that my above observation may be taken grossly out of context, I must add to it the disclaimer that I am not in any way suggesting "indoctrination" of students in one field versus another (or making some other similarly fatuous insinuation). I am simply making an observation, and speculating on its possible cause. --RudrickBoucher 21:25, 12 January 2012 (EST)
These counterexamples are not adequately rebutted above:
15. The failure to discover gravitons, despite wasting hundreds of millions in taxpayer money in searching.
- If Relativists are not even going to accept the results of experiments that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, then they are a waste of money.
18. The inability of the theory to lead to other insights, contrary to every verified theory of physics.
- If you can give examples in your own words, then please do.
24. The theory predicts natural formation of highly ordered (and thus low entropy) black holes despite the increase in entropy required by the Second Law of Thermodynamics
- This statement is true also. The dramatic decrease in entropy predicted by Relativity is contrary to the Second Law. No known mechanism offsets that decrease.--Andy Schlafly 23:39, 12 January 2012 (EST)
- re: 15. The existence of gravitons was hypothesized in an attempt to reconcile relativity with quantum mechanics. General relativity, by itself, does not predict the existence of gravitons. Furthermore, money spent testing a hypothesis that is ultimately not supported is not "wasted" (otherwise, I'd be out of a job)--the knowledge gained in testing the hypothesis allows a better hypothesis to be formulated.
- re: 18. General relativity correctly predicted gravitational lensing, the existence of black holes, and the accelerating expansion of the universe. Additionally (and this is the first example that I can come up with off of the top of my head, RSchlafly probably knows a few better ones), relativistic effects must be compensated for to maximize the accuracy of satellite-based GPS systems.
- re: 24. Black hole formation results in a net increase in entropy when considering the system as a whole. If you were to consider just the mass of the resultant black hole as a closed system, the degeneracy forces outweigh the net gravitational force significantly enough to prevent collapse into a schwarzschild radius. In just overcoming this by itself (as theoretically happens in super-massive black holes), there would be a massive output of emitted particles (radiation), which would still result in a net increase in the entropy of the system.
- These counterexamples are not valid. Plain and simple. --RudrickBoucher 01:10, 13 January 2012 (EST)
- General relativity did not predict the accelerating expansion of the universe. It predicted that the expansion would be slowing. Most physicists say that the GR equations must be modified to accommodate the accelerating expansion.
- I don't get the entropy argument. I always assumed that a black hole would have all the entropy of the collapsing star and matter falling in. Is there a source for saying that black holes have low entropy? As the footnote says, Hawking has an explanation. Is there something wrong with that explanation? RSchlafly 04:29, 13 January 2012 (EST)
- Um...I did address all your concerns, Andy....
These counterexamples are not adequately rebutted above:
15. The failure to discover gravitons, despite wasting hundreds of millions in taxpayer money in searching.
- If Relativists are not even going to accept the results of experiments that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, then they are a waste of money. Wait, gravitons are predicted by GR?! Please send me a link to the derivation!!!
18. The inability of the theory to lead to other insights, contrary to every verified theory of physics.
- If you can give examples in your own words, then please do. I did!!!! Not to be rude, but did you see what I wrote above? Dirac equation! Spin! Antiparticles! Quantum Field theory! Particle physics! The Standard Model!
24. The theory predicts natural formation of highly ordered (and thus low entropy) black holes despite the increase in entropy required by the Second Law of Thermodynamics
- This statement is true also. The dramatic decrease in entropy predicted by Relativity is contrary to the Second Law. No known mechanism offsets that decrease Yes, yes, yes, temperature increase is unknown to physics!
- (Again I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just wondering if there was a glitch or something b/c, as I said, these were all addressed above.) AndyFrankinson 19:48, 13 January 2012 (EST)
The footnote for #8 says that the calculations are "complicated or contrived", and that the fundamental formula was "conformed" to match the observed perihelion precession. No one doubts that the derivation is complicated. But "conformed" seems to say that something was "tweaked" to match the precession. The formula is complicated to solve but simple to write: . There's nothing in it that can be "tweaked"--not 8, not pi, and not K (Newton's constant of gravitation.)JudyJ 17:08, 21 January 2012 (EST)
- Yep, this is also confusing to me. Does Andy Schlafly know relativity? As you said, nothing can be tweaked in that equation (to "conform" to whatever events). The tensor that represents curvature has to have divergence 0, so that energy-momentum is locally conserved, and the 8*pi*G is determined from the fact that it has to reduce to Newtonian gravity in the weak-field limit. AndyFrankinson 19:47, 23 January 2012 (EST)
Recent reversion
Andy, while your recent change did keep the link to the rebuttal page, don't you think it would only be fair to also keep the note that the page is controversial? Regardless who is actually right or wrong, I don't think it would be fair to anyone reading 'The Trustworthy Encyclopaedia' for them to pick up the impression that the ideas on this page are not very widely disputed. --QPR 16:05, 29 January 2012 (EST)
- The whole article is a list of relativity controversies. It says at the top that it is contrary to what liberals promote. Isn't that clear? RSchlafly 21:04, 29 January 2012 (EST)
- The point is, I think, that the very idea that there is a liberal/conservative division on this is itself controversial. Personally, I have not seen the issue raised anywhere except on Conservapedia, and even then only by a very small subset of contributors.
- On a broader point, if opposing liberal points of view is, by definition, controversial, and given that such opposition is the raison d'être of Conservapedia, wouldn't a better tagline be "The Controversial Encyclopaedia"?--QPR 08:09, 30 January 2012 (EST)
- It's a common tactic for the media to label someone they don't like as "controversial". But does anyone ever hear a liberal theory or politician called "controversial"? Was Ted Kennedy ever called "controversial" by the media?--Andy Schlafly 23:43, 29 January 2012 (EST)
- Does this make string theory conservative, as it is often labeled controversial? AugustO 02:12, 30 January 2012 (EST)
- No, I didn't suggest that everything the media disparages as "controversial" is conservative. String theory is a challenge to liberal orthodoxy from the Left.--Andy Schlafly 02:18, 30 January 2012 (EST)
- Just to nail this down Andy, do you or do you not think that this page is controversial?--QPR 08:09, 30 January 2012 (EST)
- Also, your question about Ted Kennedy looks rhetorical with the implied answer of 'no', and yet the answer is very clearly 'yes'. Googling "Ted Kennedy" and "controversial" gives 6.4 million hits. Obviously that doesn't mean the term is being applied to him in all cases, but in many of them (e.g. http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/2009/08/26/ted-kennedy-controversy#slide=1) it clearly is. Can you clarify the point you were making about him?--QPR 08:27, 30 January 2012 (EST)
- No, I didn't suggest that everything the media disparages as "controversial" is conservative. String theory is a challenge to liberal orthodoxy from the Left.--Andy Schlafly 02:18, 30 January 2012 (EST)
- The term "controversial" is not a good term for string theory. The major aspects are not disputed. A subject is not conservative just because some journalist mislabels it. RSchlafly 12:14, 31 January 2012 (EST)
- That's the problem with science journalism these days. It overstates the implications of a lot of findings, oversimplifies key concepts, and often fails to accurately convey consensus opinions in a particular field. --JHunter 17:35, 31 January 2012 (EST)
- Just wanted to add to this: I have never seen GR disputed anywhere but here. (Save for quantum gravity, of course). AndyFrankinson 19:28, 2 February 2012 (EST)
- That's the problem with science journalism these days. It overstates the implications of a lot of findings, oversimplifies key concepts, and often fails to accurately convey consensus opinions in a particular field. --JHunter 17:35, 31 January 2012 (EST)
Neutrinos do not travel faster than light
The same lab that originally broke the story has confirmed a flaw in their experiment. Dr. Sandro Centro stated, "In fact I was a little sceptical since the beginning, now we are 100% sure that the speed of light is the speed of neutrinos.[...]I think they were a little bit in a hurry to publish something that was astonishing, and at the end of the day it was a wrong measurement."[2]
- I hope he did not mean to say that, because neutrinos going at the speed of light would still contradict relativity (or other experiments). Neutrinos have mass, and must go slower than the speed of light. The article has a better statement: "they find that the neutrinos do travel at the same speed as light, within a small error range." RSchlafly 05:02, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
I took the part out - again: have a look at the updated press-release by CERN regarding the experiment: AugustO 10:48, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
- The updates and corrections for the benefit of Relativists are less than persuasive. Is anyone claiming quote above ("now we are 100% sure that the speed of light is the speed of neutrinos") is inaccurate? Note, by the way, that the CERN experiment is not the only one that suggested neutrinos can travel at least as fast as the speed of light.--Andy Schlafly 11:57, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
- Andy, perhaps you could write to either the ICARUS Collaboration or CERN seeking clarification of their results. After reading the actual paper[3](not the press release), it seems that the team is quite confident that their latest results are in complete agreement with Relativity. "Based on seven neutrino events, our result is in excellent agreement with Lorentz dependent velocities of neutrinos and of light. Neutrinos and GPS measurements are found to be sharply coincident in time within an uncertainty of a few nanoseconds, in disagreement with the superluminal result reported by the OPERA Collaboration." Yet you contend that the results from the very same experiment actually disproves Relativity. In this instance I simply think you are wrong. But who's to say that my interpretation of an article is any more accurate than yours? Obviously, we both can't be right. I think there must be a better way to settle this matter than combing through press releases. --JoshuaB 13:33, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
- The new, updated claims seem more like political correctness than real science. Does the paper compare the updated results to the independent prior findings, by another experiment, that also suggested that neutrino speeds conflict with the politicized desires of Relativists?--Andy Schlafly 00:55, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
- Political correctness? Come off it Schlafly. You do realize that there's far more fame and glory to be had for a physicist to prove GR wrong than there is to add to the growing list of supporting evidence? You do understand that, right? --JoshuaB 01:57, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
- The opposite is obviously true. Those who even question the Theory of Relativity are risking their careers. No grad student can expect to receive a doctorate if he questions relativity; no associate professor can expect to receive tenure if he does likewise; and no tenured professor will ever win the Nobel Prize for questioning relativity.--Andy Schlafly 15:31, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
- Yep, and no one will ever win a Nobel prize for questioning whether the Earth is round either. --BradleyS 18:29, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
- There aren't 39 counterexamples to the spherical shape of the Earth. But if a doctoral candidate, tenure-track professor, or Nobel Prize wannabe repeats one of the 39 Counterexamples to Relativity, then he's risking retaliation against his career by liberals.--Andy Schlafly 18:52, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
Aschlafly said: "No grad student can expect to receive a doctorate if he questions relativity[...]" Yes. If a doctoral candidate whipped out almost any of your "counterexamples", in anything short of a joking fashion, they most likely would be signaling the end of their academic carrier. Why? It's simple. Advanced degrees are awarded to students who have shown a mastery of their particular field of study. Presenting this list of counterexamples in a doctoral thesis would only go towards illustrating that the student does not have a thorough understanding of SR or GR and thus should not offered a degree. No political correctness. No liberal conspiracy.
Aschlafly went on to say: "...no tenured professor will ever win the Nobel Prize for questioning relativity." You are 100% correct on this one. Why? Because anybody can sit around questioning anything. It doesn't take any particular knowledge, skill, education, or keen intellect to lob endless unanswerable questions. Otherwise Glenn Beck would have won the Nobel (and every other prize) by now. No, the proverbial (and many times literal) money is in answering questions. --JoshuaB 14:09, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
GPS and Relativity
I'm in the process of getting a debate under way on 'GPS and Relativity' over at Talk:Theory of relativity. A this stage I would rather just have some references, especially any which show that Relativity is not used in the GPS system. Once we have some good references to look at, possibly in a week or two, we can then consider the evidence. RolandPlankton 08:59, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
Biblical Examples
You can't really use the Bible to prove that the Bible is correct. While I'm not disputing the Bible, that doesn't change the fact that it's a tautological argument. I could easily "prove" relativity by saying "Einstein said such-and-such" and conclude therefore that such-and-such is true. But in reality, that wouldn't prove anything because I'd essentially be saying "Einstein said this, therefore what Einstein said is correct". It's no different for the Bible. Even if we were to argue that the Bible represents absolute truth, keep in mind that our source for that is the Bible itself, so regardless of what you believe, it's still a tautological argument. I'm not going to remove the Biblical examples without discussion, but I don't think they belong here. Gregkochuconn 09:31, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
The roundness of the sun
I'm not completely familiar with the general and special theories of relativity, but what do they have to say about the roundness of the sun? DennyR 12:41, 18 August 2012 (EDT)
- There is a relationship, though it's somewhat roundabout. See item #4 in the rebuttal page. JudyJ 17:54, 18 August 2012 (EDT)
Gravitational waves found
Lede quote
I would argue if anything needs to be changed it's the detail in point 4. The lede quote is recent and relevant, and more sources for it are available than just LiveScience. In looking into it more just now, I've found it's progressed. Apparently the evidence against relativity was so concerning to the scientific community they began immediately trying to explain it away and forced the person in charge to resign.[4][5] Evidence that the original results are wrong was just finished.[6] This displays the level of bias in the scientific community though, in trying to do all they can to protect the doctrine of relativity, and make it appear more substantiated and certain than it is. Maybe the quote should be removed, but it should be mentioned in point 4 regardless. That such major evidence was found in recent months against relativity and the scientific community sought so hard to cover it up, is news indeed. --Joshua Zambrano 05:47, 5 September 2012 (EDT)
- No one mentioned in those articles believes that neutrinos travel faster than light. I don't see how the OPERA leaders' resignations provide any evidence. Sounds more like their team was ticked off at them for making them all look like fools. Spielman 13:12, 5 September 2012 (EDT)
- The fact that it occurred like that shows relativity today is still under investigation, and not necessarily a proven fact - right? The scientific community is still trying to persuade everyone there is evidence for it. The effort to prove relativity correct is ongoing, rather than established like it was portrayed. --Joshua Zambrano 21:23, 5 September 2012 (EDT)
Removing material
Unless you are the site owner, please do not remove, dilute, or water down, or adulterate the items here. This page is extremely famous, and represents the views of the site owner. It has been quoted and cited in print and internet articles all over the world. It has over 1.8 million page views, more than 10 times as many as either the Counterexamples to an Old Earth and the Counterexamples to Evolution articles. If you think something is wrong, the Essay:Rebuttal to Counterexamples to Relativity article is the place to bring it up.
- I suppose "2+2=4" represents my views also, but the truth does not care whether I or anyone else agrees.--Andy Schlafly 23:59, 6 September 2012 (EDT)
- Touché! Your point is well taken. Though I doubt that taking such a daring and controversial stand would get 1.8 million page views. :-) JudyJ 22:36, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
Data from the PSR B1913+16 increasingly diverge from predictions of the General Theory of Relativity such that, despite a Nobel Prize in Physics being awarded for early work on this pulsar, no data at all have been released about it for over five years.
I would like to suggest that this be removed as both points (1. lack of data and 2. divergence from relativistic predictions) were disproved by the publishing of this paper in The Astrophysical Journal in 2010. Fnarrow 00:35, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
Force acting on a mass
The example, "The logical problem of a force which is applied at a right angle to the velocity of a relativistic mass - does this act on the rest mass or the relativistic mass?" needs to be rephrased to be more clear. Are we talking about measuring the force applied to the object or mesuring the change in trajectory of the object? The force acts on the object, but the sentence is currently phrased as if there are two possible different answers. The force will cause the trajectory of the object to change, which can be measured in specified frames of reference.
A good example would be a particle accelerator, or synchrotron. A charge particle is traveling at speeds that approach the speed of light. A magnetic field is applied to the particle to keep it traveling in a circular path. As the speed of the particle increases, the force applied to the particle must increase to keep it in the track of the particle accelerator. The force is applied at a right angle to the velocity of the particle. The calculations to determine the force needed to hold the particle to a circular path are well-tested and verified. Thanks, Wschact 22:42, 8 April 2013 (EDT)


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Private Cloud and Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS)
[Part V of our blog series on Cisco Data Center Business Advantage. Part I, II, III, IV, VI]
In the past, when talking with customers there would be a level of consistency between the CIO and the IT staff about priorities and needs. They needed to improve internal operations by deploying a new ERP system. They needed to improve workforce productivity by rolling out wireless access within the office and smartphones to their sales force. Business needs led to technology implementation.
But over the past year, those conversations have been changing. More and more, the CIO is looking to the IT department to drive new innovation for the business. In parallel, they realize that existing IT organizations have been built in silos to address previous business demands and this will need to change if they are expected to have cycles to drive innovation. Quite often, the CIO is asking how their company can begin to offer IT as a Service to the business, exploring the simplicity that is apparent with public or consumer Cloud Computing services.
For the IT department, they are trying to keep up with the pace of technology change in the Data Center as well as maintaining all the existing systems. Talk about Cloud Computing is usually not on their list of priorities. They are concerned about security, control of corporate data and constant availability of the systems.
This new divergence between the CIO and IT department priorities is leading many to re-examine the path forward. Maybe Cloud Computing can fix their problems? But if so, which variant of Cloud Computing is right for them?
- Public Cloud offers lower costs, but security and availability are a concern. Will they need to rewrite their applications?
- Private Cloud offers a better way to do IT, with more efficient use of resources, but it may require new cross-functional skills to be learned and they will need to improve their level of automation to reap the benefits.
- Outsourced Cloud Services (from a Service Provider) may also be an option as more and more offerings come to market from established providers.
So what's the path forward? Cisco's Data Center Business Advantage architecture allows customers to choose a path towards Cloud Computing that leverages existing IT skills, aligns with current and future business needs, and allows flexibility for future Cloud Computing services. It allows customers to choose how much IT change they are able to do themselves and how much to rely on trusted IT partners through on-site or hosted services.
For customers that want to prepare their network infrastructure for Private Cloud services, we've highlighted the value of Unified Fabric, Unified Network Services and Virtualized Multi-Tenant Data Center (IaaS) architecture.
For customers looking to create a higher performance, more flexible and efficient computing environment, Unified Computing Systems provide a foundation for Private Cloud and can easily be combined with integrated Virtualization/Compute/Network/Storage offerings such as Vblock and SMT.
Moving outside the Data Center, customers can look to Cisco's ecosystem of Service Provider partners that are delivering Cloud Computing services that are interoperable with enterprise architectures. As Cisco works with these partners, the need to allow hybrid services (internal or external to the Enterprise Data Center) is critical to the success of the entire value chain.
Ultimately, Cloud Computing is not a product but rather a set of services that deliver better IT functionality to the business. Just like Cisco's Data Center Business Advantage architecture, it puts business needs at the forefront. It creates a flexible infrastructure to deliver new applications where they are needed, and it allows the business to retain control and manage the risk of the services they deliver to business users, partners and customers.
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- Love it! Review by Nancy
- This turned out even better than I imagined. It's thicker than I was expecting - almost spongy - but it's got a layer of very soft fleece on the inside that makes it uber cozy. It's also got enough length in the body to cover your hips and most of your butt which is nice, and some stylish details on the seams on the inside that you can't see in the photo. A great deal and the quality you expect from Mammut. Also true to size I'm typically a small and this was the right fit. (Posted on 10/19/11)


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Foley to ease into gubernatorial campaign Tuesday
Republican Tom Foley will take the next step toward reprising his candidacy for governor Tuesday in Bridgeport, returning to the city where he complained of voting irregularities in 2010, when he was the GOP nominee for the state's highest office.
A private equity manager from Greenwich who served as U.S. ambassador to Ireland under President George W. Bush, Foley will hold an 11 a.m. announcement on the 2014 race at the Burroughs Community Center in the city's Black Rock section.
Foley, 61, who came within 6,500 votes of winning the governor's office against Democrat Dannel P. Malloy three years ago, confirmed the details of his announcement to Hearst Connecticut Newspapers.
While he has publicly stated he wants a rematch, Foley would not elaborate on whether he will officially enter the race or form an exploratory committee.
Foley initially declined to comment on the race, only to call Malloy's first term record "embarrassing" and "shameful" after Democrats went after his corporate record and position on gun control reform.
"I think it's regrettable that the Democratic Party, obviously teed up by the governor, is not addressing the issues that affect Connecticut citizens' welfare," Foley said. "Instead, they're engaging in personal attacks on an opponent that they're obviously worried about or they wouldn't be doing it."
Foley spent $11 million of his personal fortune in his 2010 campaign, which was marked by a bruising GOP primary against then-Lt. Gov. Michael Fedele and an anemic get-out-the-vote operation in the Democratic strongholds of Bridgeport, New Haven and Hartford. During the general election, Foley's campaign briefly contested the results in Bridgeport, where a ballot shortage led to discrepancies in vote totals reported by the city and the registrars of voters.
"I don't see Tom Foley being a threat at all to the governor's re-election prospects," said Nancy DiNardo, the state Democratic chairwoman. "This isn't 2010. The governor now has a record that he could run on that is a great record."
DiNardo credited Malloy with turning the worst budget deficit of any state in the nation into a $400 million surplus and creating 50,000 jobs on his watch.
A June 19 poll by Quinnipiac University showed Foley with a 43 percent to 40 percent lead over Malloy in a hypothetical rematch.
"I think that when we start getting the message out about what the governor has done and how the economy has turned around, people are going to start thinking about it," DiNardo said. "You'll see those numbers change significantly."
Foley disputed the job creation numbers mentioned by DiNardo, saying that the state Department of Labor has reported the loss of 27,500 jobs during Malloy's administration.
"So Connecticut is dead last in economic growth of all 50 states," Foley said. "We have the highest per-capita debt of any state."
Before Foley can count on a rematch with Malloy, he faces competition for the GOP nomination from state Senate Minority Leader John McKinney, of Fairfield, who declared his candidacy in July. Danbury Mayor Mark Boughton and state Sen. Toni Boucher, of Wilton, are also exploring a run for governor.
McKinney is trying to qualify for public financing for his campaign, which is the route Boughton and Boucher will take should they decide to run.
Since his electoral setback, Foley has maintained his visibility throughout the state, starting a New Haven-based think tank known as the Connecticut Policy Institute that has frequently criticized the economic policies of the Malloy administration.
Malloy's surrogates say that the organization is nothing more than a political vehicle for Foley, a prolific bundler of campaign cash for Republican candidates whose opponents have accused him of destroying a Georgia textile firm purchased by his investment company.
DiNardo said Foley was responsible for taking jobs away from employees of The Bibb Co. and ruining their retirements. During the 2010 campaign, Foley said he did all he could to save the company and that many of the things he was being criticized for happened after his watch.
DiNardo also questioned Foley's commitment to a statewide crackdown on assault weapons enacted in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre.
"Certainly, the gun safety bill, how long did it take him to make a comment and it was mediocre at best," DiNardo said.
In a February interview with Hearst Connecticut Newspapers, Foley, a shotgun owner, stopped short of embracing an assault weapons ban. He said he could accept a ban on high-capacity gun magazines if a still-ongoing State Police investigation of the massacre shows it could have saved lives. Any firearm that is modified by the manufacturer to skirt restrictions on assault weapons should be designated illegal, he said.
On Monday, Foley accused Democrats of creating a diversion for Malloy's record.
"I want to talk about issues," he said.
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|View Poll Results: Nisemonogatari - Episode 01 Rating
|Perfect 10
|9 out of 10 : Excellent
|8 out of 10 : Very Good
|7 out of 10 : Good
|6 out of 10 : Average
|5 out of 10 : Below Average
|4 out of 10 : Poor
|3 out of 10 : Bad
|2 out of 10 : Very Bad
|1 out of 10 : Painful
|Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll
|Thread Tools
|2012-01-07, 14:58
|Link #21
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: My cozy room
I'm just glad to see the gang back again. It's been a long wait but it looks like it's gonna be worth it. Shaft just keeps on enriching their animation with every new work, it's great. They better keep this up though!
|2012-01-07, 15:44
|Link #24
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Boy, it feels like they went fast with this episode. We've done 3 chapters already. In the trailer they showed parts from the first introductory chapter, but they are not in the first episode. Possibly they will add it in the BD edition.
The OP really feels connected musically the the old Hitagi's OP, although it surprised me that there was one to begin with. I was expecting a catchy Karen OP. If they continue doing an OP for each girl, this show will end up with more OP than One Piece (J/K, that's impossible )
Even the art looks good. I like how they gave Araragi a post-modern house
When I first watched Bakemonogatari I didn't even know it came from a light novel series, now that I watch Nise having read the book it's amazing to see the work of Shaft in condensing a novel into a 20 something minutes episode. Feels a bit like it has been cut down to the bone, but it should work.
I will add just a couple of things. 1) in Shuraragi, "shura" means "fighting, scene of carnage" (I mention it because the joke was left unxeplained). 2) What was translated here with "supernatural" is the usual "kaii", the supernatural entities the stories are about. Each translator has its own rendition of the term, so it's better to know they are talking about the same thing.
|2012-01-07, 16:02
|Link #25
Now to the episode, I hated the third part (Mayoi, who apparently is no more), because I did not want to wait one more week for Nadeko's compromised zettai ryouiki, which did not help to pay attention to the dense dialogue... oh well, next week after I get my fix
Otherwise, Hitagi turned completely Yuno@MiraiNikki on Koyomi, and Tsukihi was very different from what I expected. Horie Yui and Hanazawa Kana got only a couple of sentences and even those were through a phone
|2012-01-07, 16:16
|Link #26
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CO, USA
Awesome episode... is what I would've said, if not for that super misleading part on Araragi going to Sengoku's house. When I thought I was going to be enjoying a full episode of Nadeko goodness, I get something entirely different. I mean, the conversation between Araragi and Hachikuji was great, but don't get my hopes up like that and shut me down . So yea, in my rage I rated the episode 6/10, when I'd normally have given it a 9/10. Which I kinda regret doing now, since I did enjoy the episode. And most of all, very happy to be able to watch more of monogatari.
And lol at Araragi's evil face when he first sees Kachikuji. Definitely the face of a pedophile. And lol at Senjougahara's sadism.
|2012-01-07, 16:25
|Link #27
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
On the whole, the "shaftness" in the episode blended pretty well, IMHO, and it didn't felt out of place as I felt it did on the first episode of Bake.
|2012-01-07, 16:36
|Link #30
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 32
NADEKO! I'VE MISSED YOU!! Why isn't it next week already?! God, I had a heart attack when she answered the phone in that adorably flustered voice. I need to make this my new ringtone or something, even if it could be dangerous for my health... I have the courage to listen to this everyday! Why isn't it next week already?!
Phew. Give me a minute to calm down.
While Nadeko's very short screentime was the highlight of the episode for me, I greatly enjoyed everything else, from Hitagi's yandere antics to Loliconragi and Mayoi's epic battle. The dialogues were as witty and funny as ever, and the girls as entertaining and lovely. I have to admit Hitagi creeped me out a bit at first though, but her confession, while twisted, also struck me as incredibly sweet. When a girl is willing to change your diapers, you know she loves you. Problem is... she's the one who created a situation where Araragi needs a diaper.
Tsukihi was quite different from what I expected. She struck me as a nice and obedient little sister in the first season but she's actually quite cheeky. I didn't think she was aware of Nadeko's feelings for her brother either... then again, it's not exactly hard to notice. Araragi is probably the only who has no clue.
An excellent first episode all around for me. I'm pleased each girl will presumably get their own OP once again.
|2012-01-07, 17:22
|Link #32
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
As for the episode it was better than I was expecting and like others my only gripe was the lack of an ED but I'm guessing it's just Shaft being Shaft. I wonder if they'll actually be dancing in the ED?
|2012-01-07, 18:29
|Link #35
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Man, watching this again made me realize how much I missed this series, its colorful characters and the heavy-as-molasses, back-and-forth dialogue between each of them. Great first episode with nothing feeling like excessive fillers and a nice way to kick-off the season.
|2012-01-07, 18:39
|Link #37
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Pretty good episode. I kinda hoped to see more interactions with Karen though, since it is her arc i think. Though I'm pleasantly surprised at the movements of the animation. A good step up from the Bakemonogatari series. Makes me hope that it continues throughout the series. And I'm also glad that the cards are put in a minimal use. Hopefully that continues as well. All and all a very good first episode.
|2012-01-07, 18:43
|Link #38
I kill you
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
Anyway, if I add my real impression, it was a bit awkward than I thought. Sakuga was all over the place.
Look at this. There are just so many people involved in this episode's sakuga. That's something that made character's look to be unbalanced and keep changing.
Definitely, they did not have much time. Usual Shaft again.
|2012-01-07, 19:35
|Link #39
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 42
Excellent first episode. Had to keep myself from laughing out loud at this very quiet household: Mayoi seems to act more like a cat when provoked, with biting and pole-climbing, definitely a pun on Emirin's family name.
Last edited by sa547; 2012-01-07 at 20:28.
|Thread Tools


text:
"From the Spoon to the City": Objects by Architects from LACMA's Collection
"From the Spoon to the City": Objects by Architects from LACMA's Collection will present a cross section of LACMA's twentieth-century design collection, highlighting furniture and objects designed by architects. When Italian architect Ernesto Rogers famously declared that he wanted to design everything from "a spoon to a city," he articulated the desire of many architects to design both buildings and their contents. In some cases, this meant design for specific commissions, such as Rudolf Schindler's furniture for the Shep family. In others, objects allowed the realization of ideas on a smaller, more viable scale, or were a part of a multifaceted career that spanned all realms of design, as in the case of Frank Gehry. The products of such efforts can function as miniature buildings, conveying the architect's ideals in a compact form. Or as Charles Eames put it when asked why he made furniture, "so [I] can design a piece of architecture that you can hold in your hand."
The exhibition is organized into four chronological groups, based on particularly fertile moments in design history and featuring works by Frank Lloyd Wright, Marcel Breuer, Rudolph Schindler, Richard Neutra, Charles and Ray Eames, Alvin Lustig, Greta Magnusson Grossman, Frank Gehry, Ettore Sottsass, Michael Graves, Greg Lynn, Elena Manferdini, and Johanna Grawunder. The exhibition is organized by LACMA and curated by Bobbye Tigerman, decorative arts and design.
Image: Schindler, Rudolph, Bedroom Dresser with Hinged Half-Round Mirror and Stool from the Shep Commission, Los Angeles, 1936–1938, gunwood, mirror, wool upholstery (replaced), overall: 70 3/4 x 105 (179.70 x 266.7). Los Angeles County Museum of Art, Gift of Ruth Shep Polen, photo © 2009 Museum Associates/LACMA.


text:
To obtain a Certificate of Eligibility (I-20) from Chadron State College (CSC) and an F-1 visa from the United States, non-U.S. citizens and non-permanent residents are required by law to certify that they have sufficient financial resources to pay for their education and related expenses. Specifically, students must show that they have sufficient liquid funds for their first year of study and living expenses at CSC and that adequate funding will be available for all subsequent years through completion of their program.
All applicants must complete, sign and submit the CSC Financial Declaration and Certification form. The form must be accompanied by proof of financial support in the form of an official bank letter signed by a bank official. (Sample Bank Letter) The CSC Financial Declaration and Certification Statement form must be accurately and fully completed with all required signatures. Please find below two examples of a completed CSC Financial Declaration and Certification form.
If the applicant is being partially or fully funded with personal funds, parent's funds, or a sponsor's funds, he/she must submit an official and original bank letter that includes: confirmation that the account holder has a specific dollar amount of funds immediately available on deposit with currency specified; the name and address of the bank; the date the letter was drafted; and the name, signature and title of the bank official certifying the funds. Vague statements such as "six-figure funds available" or "sufficient funds available" are not considered specific or sufficient.
The bank letter must be ORIGINAL, in English, and not more than 30 days old at the time of application. Bank letter must have the official bank seal, stamp, or notarization in a color other than black. Bank letter must be mailed to CSC's physical address. Photocopies and faxes are not accepted. These documents cannot be returned.
Applicants being funded, in whole or in part, by a family or private third party sponsor must provide the sponsor's financial support information required on the Financial Declaration and Certification form.
Applicants being funded by their government or an agency must include an original or certified copy in English of their award letter detailing which expenses will be provide by their government or agency sponsor.
All materials should be submitted by mail to:
Chadron State College
Office of International Education
Crites Hall 218
1000 Main Street
Chadron, NE 69337, USA


text:
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor - When Good Isn't EnoughPosted in Features on January 1, 2011
How many of you have been drooling over the new Ford SVT Raptor ever since our Tech Inspection in the August 2009 issue? Although the Raptor comes rolling off the showroom floor ready to run off-road, this article proves you can improve upon anything with four wheels. Brenthel Industries got a call from Mohamed A., a customer based out of Virginia and Dubai, looking to increase the performance of his Raptor. Mohamed knew his truck would be in good hands having seen the numerous masterpieces rolling out of the Brenthel shop these days.
On top of meticulous welding, Brenthel is leading the way in aftermarket suspensions by creating kits designed off OEM 3D CAD files supplied from the manufacturers. What that means is Brenthel uses original drawings of each vehicle's suspension system to design its Baja kits, just like the Raptor kit Mohamed had added to his new truck. Each kit is 100-percent CAD designed from an engineering standpoint to work perfectly with each vehicle.
Vehicle: '10 Ford SVT Raptor
Owner: Mohamed A.
Chassis: Stock
Engine: 5.4L V-8, ProCharger Supercharger System
Drivetrain: Stock
Suspension: Baja kit by Brenthel Industries; King shocks & hydraulic bumpstops
Steering: Full Heim steering and tie rods
Brakes: Stock
Tires/wheels: Stock
Interior: Stock
Other Parts: N/A
Favorite Off-Road Area: Deserts of Dubai


text:
Day: Pentecost 4B
Lectionary Passage: Job 30:1-11
Scripture Focus: None
Object: None
Good morning everybody! I've been thinking about some really puzzling questions. Like why is there a light in the fridge, but not in the freezer? Or what is gravity and why does it hold stuff down? Or why is a boxing ring square? Things like that. I bet you could think of some pretty tough questions you would like to have answered.
There are a lot of questions that we can answer. We've learned a lot about the world. But I still don't think there is anyone who can answer every single question in the whole wide world.
The book of Job is in the Old Testament. It's about a man who had some really tough questions and he wanted answers. He asked big questions. Like why is there suffering? Why do bad things happen? People he knew gave him answers. But Job didn't think those answers were right. He believed that only God knew the real answers because God is the one who created everything. God has all the answers. Some of our questions will have to wait to be answered until we get to heaven, but they will be answered.
Asking questions is very important. It's part of how we grow. And God made us to be curious and to think about even the really tough stuff. I hope each of you will ask questions all the time. And don't be shy to ask questions about your faith and what we believe as Christians. Otherwise, how are you ever going to learn the answer?! Just like Job, we can ask tough questions. Sometimes we'll get the answer we need from others, like our caregivers or teachers or pastors, but sometimes the answers will still be a mystery and we'll have to ask God. Just remember: Don't stop asking questions because being curious is part of how God made us.
Let's pray: Thank you God for creating us to be curious creatures. Help us to be bold and ask questions but also to be patient when the answer isn't clear. Amen.


text:
User talk:Greentopia
Hi Greentopia. Welcome to English Wikiquote.
- For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote:Wikiquote.
- Also see What Wikiquote is not for common activities that Wikiquote does not support.
- To ask for help or to talk with another editor, visit our Village pump.
- To browse Wikiquote, take a look at our browsing start page.
- Before creating new articles, consult our guide. You may practice how to edit a page at Sandbox.
- Please remember to use edit summaries when editing pages.
- When posting to a discussion, please sign with a date by writing four tildes (~~~~) and saving.
- Be bold.
Enjoy! ~ Ubiquity (talk) 10:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Stele Ely[edit]
I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Stele Ely, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but it may not satisfy Wikiquote's criteria for inclusion, for the reasons given in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikiquote is not" and Wikiquote's deletion policy).
You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the
{{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Votes for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. ~ Ningauble (talk) 16:43, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
- Stele Ely has been listed at Votes for deletion. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Stele Ely. Thank you. ~ Ningauble (talk) 17:13, 28 June 2013 (UTC)


text:
Life can be a bitch, is the general opinion. Well, since I like mine so much, I must be a dog...
posted by Anurag @ 2:29 AM
0 comments
Post a Comment
<< Home
No, I'm NOT a real dog. I wish I were but I'm not. I am an engineer, a sportsman, a nice husband (at least I think so), a half-hearted artist, a photography enthusiast, a lover of cryptic crosswrods and coffee (COFFEE!!), and a late sleeper. That's it!
View my complete profile


text:
The Alliance for Health will hold a public hearing to receive comments on the proposal of Sparrow Ionia Hospital to build a replacement hospital and relocate its existing services to the new site.
The Alliance for Health will hold a public hearing to receive comments on the proposal of Sparrow Ionia Hospital to build a replacement hospital and relocate its existing services to the new site.
Sparrow Ionia Hospital is proposing to replace its current facility, which dates back to 1954 and has 25-beds. The proposed replacement will be built on a 44-acre site located on the northeast side of the intersection of State Road (M-66) and David Highway. This site is four miles from the current hospital.
The hospital proposes to relocate 22 of its 25 licensed beds. Three beds previously used for inpatient obstetrics care will be eliminated. The hospital also plans to relocate its two operating rooms, its mobile MRI host site/service, and its CT scanner.
The replacement hospital has not yet been designed. It is estimated that the new hospital will be 63,500 square-feet and have 22 inpatient beds. The cost of the project is estimated at $25 million, all of which will come from a 30-year loan from the Sparrow Health System at 4 percent interest.
In the last year, there were 978 surgical cases at the hospital and this is projected to increase to 1,127 by 2016, after the replacement hospital is finished.
The public hearing will be held at 11 a.m. May 2 in the Grand River Room and the Looking Glass Room at Ionia County Intermediate School District, 2191 Harwood Road. Hospital officials will attend the hearing to respond to questions the public may have.
The Alliance for Health will evaluate the proposal and make recommendations to the Michigan Department of Community Health as to whether the project should receive a Certificate of Need and be allowed to proceed. Comments received at the public hearing will be considered in the evaluation.
Interested people are invited to present oral and/or written comments at the public hearing. Anyone unable to attend may submit written comments to the Alliance for Health offices by May 3. Those commenting at the public hearing also are asked to provide a written copy of their testimony for the record.
More information about the Alliance for Health is available at www.afh.org.


text:
DeepResearchReports.com has Introduces the addition of the "Global Cleaning Robot Industry 2016 Market Research Report" Intelligence Study to the Manufacturing & Construction Group of its database.
Global Cleaning Robot Industry 2016 Market Research Report is a Professional and in-depth market research on the current state of the Global Cleaning Robot Market. The Global Cleaning Robot market analysis is provided for the international markets including development trends, competitive landscape analysis, and key regions development status.
The Cleaning Robot Industry provides a basic overview of the industry including definitions, classifications, applications and industry chain structure. The Cleaning Robot market analysis is provided for the international market including development history, competitive landscape analysis, and major regions' development status.
Complete report on '2016 Market Research Report on Global Cleaning Robot Industry' spread across 141 pages, profiling 32 companies and figures is now available @ http://www.reportsnreports.com/contacts/Discount.aspx?name=531315 .
#Analysis of Cleaning Robot Industry Major Manufacturers: Samsung, Irobot, Neato Robotics, LG, Dyson, Sharp, Ecovacs, Matsutek Industry profiles overview.
Development policies and plans are discussed as well as manufacturing processes and cost structures. This report also states import/export, supply and consumption figures as well as cost, price, revenue and gross margin by regions (United States, EU, Global and Japan), and other regions can be added.
The Global Cleaning Robot Industry focuses on Global major leading industry players with information such as company profiles, product picture and specification, capacity, production, price, cost, revenue and contact information. Upstream raw materials, equipment and downstream consumers analysis is also carried out. What's more, the Cleaning Robot industry development trends and marketing channels are analyzed. Finally, the feasibility of new investment projects is assessed, and overall research conclusions are offered. In a word, the report provides major statistics on the state of the industry and is a valuable source of guidance and direction for companies and individuals interested in the market.
A dedicated chapter on development trend of Cleaning Robot market for 2016-2021 in this report covers data and information on capacity and production overview, production market share analysis, sales overview, supply, sales, and shortage, import, export and consumption as well as cost, price, revenue and gross margin of Cleaning Robot.
Buy a copy of this report @ http://www.reportsnreports.com/Purchase.aspx?name=531315 .
Major Points Covered in Table of Contents [TOC]
1 Industry Overview
2 Manufacturing Cost Structure Analysis of Cleaning Robot
3 Technical Data and Manufacturing Plants Analysis
4 Production Analysis of Cleaning Robot by Regions, Technology, and Applications
5 Sales and Revenue Analysis of Cleaning Robot by Regions
6 Analyses of Cleaning Robot Production, Supply, Sales and Market Status 2010-2016
7 Analysis of Cleaning Robot Industry Key Manufacturers
8 Price and Gross Margin Analysis
9 Marketing Traders or Distributor Analysis of Cleaning Robot
10 Development Trend of Cleaning Robot Industry 2016-2020
11 Industry Chain Suppliers of Cleaning Robot with Contact Information
12 New Project Investment Feasibility Analysis of Cleaning Robot
13 Conclusion of the Global Cleaning Robot Industry 2016 Market Research Report
List of Tables and Figures
Connect us @ firstname.lastname@example.com with subject line "2016 Market Research Report on Global Cleaning Robot Industry " and your contact details to purchase this report or get your questions answered. OR Call Us @ +1 888 391 5441.
About Us:
Deep Research Reports is digital database of syndicated market reports for Global and Global industries. These reports offer competitive intelligence data for companies in varied market segments and for decision makers at multiple levels in these organizations. We provide 24/7 online and offline support to our customers
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+ 1 888 391 5441


text:
Ruby Louise Morlan, a 96-year-old Yreka resident, passed away on Tuesday morning, Oct. 9, 2012 at the Madrone Hospice House in Yreka.
Ruby Louise Morlan, a 96-year-old Yreka resident, passed away on Tuesday morning, Oct. 9, 2012 at the Madrone Hospice House in Yreka.
Ruby was born on Feb. 5, 1916 in Fort Benton, Mont. to Vernon and Anna Hill and later moved to northern Idaho, St. Maries and Wallace, Idaho areas. Ruby married Ralph Johnson in St. Maries, Idaho in 1933 and they had one daughter, Bernadine Seal of Yreka. Ruby later married Don Morlan in 1963; he died of ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, in 1985. Ruby moved to Yreka in 1985 to be near her daughter. Ruby lived in Payette, Idaho for many years and worked and retired from Ore Ida Potatoes in Ontario, Ore. She was a member of the Ladies of the Moose Lodge in Wallace, Idaho and St. Joseph's Guild and the Legion of Mary, both in Yreka. Ruby enjoyed crocheting, embroidering, gardening and collecting knick-knacks.
In addition to Bernadine, Ruby is survived by three grandchildren, Judy and Bob Cornelious of Price, Utah, Michael and Susan Seal of Edgewood and Karen and Dennis Shoemaker of Moiese, Mont.; eight great-grandchildren; 17 great-great-grandchildren and two great-great-great-grandchildren. She is also survived by her sister, Margaret Russell of Hines, Ore. in addition to numerous nieces and nephews.
She was preceded in death by two sisters, Irene Potter and Helen Napier and three brothers, Vernon, Kenneth and Clayton Hill.
A Memorial Mass will be held at 1 p.m. on Friday, Oct. 12, 2012 at St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Yreka. Memorial contributions may be made to Madrone Hospice, 255 Collier Circle, Yreka, CA 96097. Girdner Funeral Chapel is assisting the family. Online condolences may be made at www.girdnerfuneralchapel.com.


text:
Author Notes: When you look at the picture of our family's favorite pie, you can see how different, original and beautiful it looks, and most of all it is amazingly tasty.
The meringue is very tall and holds its shape to the last piece.
This pie is also perfect for any season because it is equally delicious when apples, pears, plums, peaches, figs or any other fruit and berries are used.
Our pie has an easy to make crust that doesn't require chilling and rolling-out and it comes out every time puffed and golden brown.
I bake this pie at 325 degrees because my oven is pretty hot.
You can adjust the temperature according to your oven.
My sister Stella, who leaves in New York, baked this pie for The Independents Day Potluck and emailed her picture to me. —Kukla
Serves: 12-16
• 1 cup butter, room temperature
• 1 cup sour cream
• 5 extra large eggs, room temperature, separated
• 3/4 cup granulated sugar, plus 1 cup superfine sugar, for egg whites
• 2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour
• 1 teaspoon baking powder
• 1/2 teaspoon baking soda
• 1/4 teaspoon salt
• Zest of 1 large lemon, plus 1 teaspoon juice for egg whites
• 2 teaspoons pure vanilla extract (divided)
• 3 1/2 pounds fresh ripe but firm apricots, washed and cut in half
• 1 1/2 pints fresh raspberries
- Preheat oven to 325 degrees F.
- In a mixing bowl combine flour, baking powder, and baking soda, salt and lemon zest; mix well. Cream butter and 3/4 cups sugar until light and fluffy; add egg yolks one at a time until fully incorporated.
- Stir in sour cream and 1 teaspoon vanilla. Slowly fold in flour mixture in three portions (dough should be very soft).
- Evenly spread the dough in a large glass baking dish (15, 5 -10, 5-2, 5-inches). Place on the middle rack of the oven and bake for about 20-25 minutes until pale golden.
- Meanwhile prepare apricots: wash and pat dry, half them, discard the pits and fill each half with 1 raspberry.
- Arrange the filled with raspberries apricots (cut side down) all over the prebaked crust. Place the remaining raspberries in-between rows of apricots.
- Return pie to the oven and bake for about 30 more minutes.
- In the bowl of stand mixer fitted with a whisk attachment, beat egg whites, salt and 1 teaspoon lemon juice until foamy. Slowly add the 1 cup of superfine sugar and beat on high speed until meringue is stiff and shiny. Add remaining 1 teaspoon vanilla and beat until combined.
- When the pie is ready, gently spread meringue on top, return to the oven and in about 8-10 minutes turn of the heat.
- Leave the pie in the oven for another 10 minutes; then transfer to a wire rack and cool to room temperature. To serve, cut in 12 or 16 diamond shape portions.
- This recipe was entered in the contest for Your Best Raspberries
More Great Recipes:
Pie|Meringue|Apricot|Raspberry|Sour Cream|Fruit|Serves a Crowd|Summer|Dessert


text: Hoping to save people some time: I followed the Perfect Setup for Ubuntu LTS 12.04. Everything worked perfectly, but I wanted https access to squirrelmail to protect users' privacy. SSL worked for the ISPConfig portal, but not for squirrelmail or the main page of the server. Squirrelmail DID work without SSL. This is easy to fix: Uncomment the last 9 lines of /etc/apache2/conf.d/squirrelmail.conf and restart apache. I kept thinking I had a configuration problem with SSL generally because I was getting the ssl_error_rx_record_too_long message and couldn't find any errors. Hope this helps someone.


text:
Right now we're live-blogging the class panel in the main hall. This panel will feature discussion of where the classes are headed, why things are done the way they are, and perhaps even announcements about multispecs and new features.
The full live-blog happening after the break!
EDIT: Pics added throughout!


text:
The MSDN docs state:
"When label editing begins, an edit control is created, positioned, and
initialized. Before it is displayed, the list view control sends its parent
window an LVN_BEGINLABELEDIT notification message.
To customize label editing, implement a handler for LVN_BEGINLABELEDIT and
have it send an LVM_GETEDITCONTROL message to the list view control. If a
label is being edited, the return value will be a handle to the edit
control. Use this handle to customize the edit control by sending the usual
EM_XXX messages."
So, I tried implementing this, only it does not seem to work. The MoveWindow
call succeeds, but the edit control does not move... the EditControl method
is just a thin wrapper for LVM_GETEDITCONTROL.
Private Declare Function MoveWindow Lib "user32" (ByVal hWnd As Long, _
ByVal X As Long, ByVal Y As Long, ByVal nWidth As Long, ByVal nHeight As
Long, ByVal bRepaint As Long) _
As Long
Private Sub lvwSettings_BeforeLabelEdit(Item As dsListView.ListItem, Cancel
As Boolean)
Dim hwndEdit As Long, rc As Long
hwndEdit = lvwSettings.EditControl
Debug.Print "hwndEdit := " & hwndEdit
rc = MoveWindow(hwndEdit, lvwSettings.ColumnHeaders(2).Left, Item.Top,
lvwSettings.ColumnHeaders(2).Width, _
lvwSettings.ColumnHeaders(2).Height, True)
'// rc = MoveWindow(hwndEdit, 320, 200, 140, 130, 1)
MsgBox "rc := " & rc, vbInformation, "lvwSettings_BeforeLabelEdit"
End Sub
I remember reading a VBPJ article about this (actually it was about the MS
ListView control) by Matt Hart, but I've misplaced my copy of it. It had
something to do with hooking WM_KILLFOCUS, EN_SETFOCUS, EN_UPDATE and other
such things... and his web site doesn't seem to have the article anymore.
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