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|2012-05-03, 07:24
|Link #1
Don't Call Me Bro
'I'm right, therefore you're wrong for not agreeing!' culture
This is something I've been concerned about for a while and some people have spoken to me about privately out of fear of being hated on. I've reached the point where I want to talk about this openly because I think that particularly over the last year, it has become a bigger problem and are making some of the more prominent/seasoned people on AS uncomfortable. I'm not going to name names - if people agree with what I have to say, they can do so themselves. If they don't, that's their right and choice.
When I first began posting regularly on AS, it was during the airing of Code Geass R2. What made me like the forums at that point in time was that while people could get into somewhat heated debates on their opinion, they would still respect the right of others to have a somewhat different opinion, if not a complete opposite of theirs, yet still openly talk about how they felt about the latest episode of a certain character. C.C. and Kallen fans got along, Suzaku dislikers and likers could be openly frank. But there wasn't that sense of 'You're disagreeing with me, therefore you're wrong! GTFO and stay out!' feel. Having a different approach to a title isn't necessarily bad. Not being a hardcore fan of a show and being in the 7-8/10 grade range doesn't mean you don't have a valid opinion.
For a few years, that feeling seemed to prevail in specific threads. But sometime last year, it changed. I never set foot into the Madoka threads because they seemed to verge on mortal enemies and I'd get told of the bannings and disgruntled people from there. Move to October and the Fate/Zero episode threads. What startled me was apparently being an 8/10 fan isn't good enough and that one should die for not rating it at least 9/10...or that unless you were unquestionably loyal to Rider, you were a fool and automatically wrong. That kind of behaviour disgusted me to no end and it reduced my enjoyment of the show - I still haven't watched any S2 due to the amount of poor behaviour I saw in there.
Come 2012, the Nisemonogatari threads. I didn't like Bakemonogatari so I avoided Nise threads. I had a good number of people privately contact me and say that they were being targetted, called out and having private discussions revealed in full in Nise threads....What kind of behaviour is that? I'm sure several of the mods and other people around know I was vocal for a short while about the show outside of Nise threads. I did that because the traffic was very one way - 'Like this show or die' seemed to be the way. Any popular show - no matter how popular it is - has valid criticisms. It didn't seem to be the case.
And now this season. I've had people contact me via online messaging telling me they're being targetted, hated on and neg rep spammed in droves in the Hyou-Ka thread for not being a hardcore fanatic or unquestionably loyal to KyoAni. Since when did a title thread specifically belong to the hardcore fans? Since when was a 'I like this show but not quite as much as you do' become grounds to be a murder victim? People who like the show should be able to post in the thread and be honest, regardless of their degree of liking it.
I know some people think I automatically hate modern anime. I don't. 2010 was one of my favourite years ever. This April season has been a great time for me. What I am NOT liking in recent times is the amount of people going into World War 3 mode the moment someone disagrees with them and starting a killing spree on anyone contrary to their opinion. I don't like what is happening within recent fandoms and how they think anyone who disagrees with their opinion automatically deserves to burn. That doesn't make for a healthy anime fanbase or collective community at all.
Simply put, I'm avoiding posting in a good number of threads I'd like to talk about because I know the moment I do, some people will go up in arms to an unnecessary degree in the thread. I don't post in threads about shows I don't like - there's nothing to gain from instigating inevitable trouble. But surely having a reasonable like for a show doesn't mean you can't post in its threads. Lately, I feel I can't do that at all. And I have been contacted by a fair amount of people - some with incredibly high rep counts - that share that sentiment.
In short - can we have something done about fandoms that are going too far? I don't like being unable to talk about shows except via VMs. And there are more people out there than you think that feel the same way. They are worried they will be permanently ostracized for speaking up. I don't like that at all. I don't expect people to agree with me. I would like to think people would have the ability to respect a valid opinion and the right to have it. That's all I'm asking for.
|2012-05-03, 07:46
|Link #2
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
You can't really do much about that. There will always be fans who seriously defend their favorite shows against the regular viewers. Happens to me lots of times.
But in my opinion you have the same right to critize a show, just like fans can defend them. Don't be deterred by all of those fans to post your own opinion of the show. If you do that, then you are exactly doing what they want you to do.
Well this of course does apply to serious discussions/opinions though. If you go to thread and simply say" this show sux because it looks like k-on", then you will get flamed by fans and non fans alike
As for neg reps, you really should ignore it unless it contains insults or something similar.
|2012-05-03, 07:56
|Link #4
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 29
Nothing is extreme when it comes to fans who are dead serious and devoted to their shows. You can hardly expect them to remain objective when it comes to their favourite animes. When subjectivism comes into play, i.e.personal feelings, taste or opinions, discussions will be influenced by it. And thus the hatred, heated discussions and neg reps. It is hard to maintain your composure when certain people just seem to shut off opinions from other people, but realistically speaking, is it really possible for mods and admins to do something about this extreme aspect of fandom?
|2012-05-03, 08:03
|Link #5
daydreaming 24/7
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DC
Age: 28
Sorry for being dramatic, but yes, please do something about this.
|2012-05-03, 08:05
|Link #6
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
|2012-05-03, 08:08
|Link #8
daydreaming 24/7
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DC
Age: 28
But it's not about this, it's just about the culture in a whole. It makes discussing really hard when this applies.
|2012-05-03, 08:09
|Link #9
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 29
Best thing you can do is to reply as civil as possible, and if those peeps are still being irrational, then ignore it. Sometimes, ignoring is the only method to deal with crazy obsessed folks.
Edit: If you are talking about culture in general, then it is even harder to change it. Could be possible, but will take a long time to change that mindset.
|2012-05-03, 08:11
|Link #10
daydreaming 24/7
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DC
Age: 28
Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-05-03 at 18:29.
|2012-05-03, 08:27
|Link #13
daydreaming 24/7
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DC
Age: 28
But no, seriously, you're right. It's depressing and it can even be called bullying. But hey, best to ignore it. If you engage them in a discussion that will only bring forth a fat load of problems.
Hence why we hope the mods/admins can do something about this.
Last edited by ranran; 2012-05-03 at 09:12.
|2012-05-03, 08:31
|Link #14
We can always hope. MOD will always be there. . . .
|2012-05-03, 08:31
|Link #15
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
There is still a rule that says :
"1.2 Do not insult or harass other members
Insults, harassment, flaming, trolling, baiting or other similar abusive behaviour towards other members of The Forum will not be tolerated. This includes the use of "retort images". Images used to convey a "come back" message (i.e. to "retort") are forbidden in all areas of The Forum, they are often offensive and only serve to ignite flame wars. "
So if you think that you are litterly harrassed by people who keep messaging you to watch it, you can try to ask a mod to see if it falls under harrasement.
|2012-05-03, 08:34
|Link #16
daydreaming 24/7
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DC
Age: 28
|2012-05-03, 08:34
|Link #17
Japanese Culture Fan
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 27
It's funny how the comments made by people who vehemently defend their favorite anime are often a lot more offensive and vitriolic than the comments that spurned them. These hateful comments sometimes attack the original poster, calling them a horrible person, a tasteless fag, et cetera, when the original poster usually just criticized the anime without pointing fingers at its fans. It's hypocritical.
This won't filter all of the hate, but you could always disable your reputation, which would prevent you from seeing the recent rep you received on your control panel.
|2012-05-03, 08:39
|Link #18
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30
For your actual point, I think it's more of an issue with posters etiquette than anything else really. I've encountered this issue more with ''fanatics'' rather than ''fandoms'' as a whole, especially around these forums (AS is actually one of the few anime forums I still frequent and post in, thanks to the fact that the poster culture here is much better than anywhere else), and while I haven't seen that high level of attitude around the majority of threads I go to, I can agree that, such in the case of shows like Nisemonogatari where the general post traffic tends to lean strongly in the ''constant praise'' direction I find it difficult, at time even scary, to post anything, be it constructive criticism or even positive things about the show (since it's not positive enough, or it's the wrong reason to like the episode etc.). Not out of fear of getting neg reps (I don't really care) but more about the thread devolving into a nonsensical argument that has little if anything to do with the show in question, and ultimately end with insults and bitter feelings. Even if I have a pretty tough skin, I don't come here to pick fights, but to have fun and post my impressions about the things I like and see what others think of these subjects, have discussions (positive or negative) about it and what not.
The only thing I think that could be done is to either just post what you want without caring what others think (as long as I'm posting my impressions and I use perfectly logical arguments, why would you care if I like the show or not?), but them on ignore (or simple ignore them) or if they continue to harass you, report them to a mod. Other than that I'm not really sure what other ways are there to tackle this problem, since the very way the sub-forums are structured it's made so that fans who love a certain show enough would eventually have a place large enough for them to talk more about it, so they would by default have a pretty large fanbase who share a similar opinion and some fanatics will expect that everyone will have to agree with it, like their word is gospel or something.
|2012-05-03, 09:51
|Link #19
Giga Drill Breaker
Join Date: Jan 2009
its not just anime fans of animesuki that you will encounter that, even on other anime forums youll get extreme arguments for the sake of being a fan of the anime you/they like
even in real life, be it sports fans and move fans and even politics fans you can see this extreme arguments too
but i agree with you, i like Guilty Crown and Star Driver and always see the weekly threads here on animesuki to get more insight about those anime but you cannot escape seeing arguments that goes nowhere, ive been on some arguments too defending Guilty Crown and Star Driver here on animesuki, but after those heated arguments and reading the hates of those anime it lessens my enjoyment of those shows.
and now as much as possible i only read anime/manga related information here on animesuki forums, i do not bother replying to subjective replies anymore, i try to be as objective as possible just like how i do on other forums im in
i guess your right that the REPUTATION system has given more bad than good on the health of the debates here
P.S. and to make this thread not go the personal clashing route i suggest people to not name anyone they are describing as an example XD
|2012-05-03, 09:56
|Link #20
Monarch of Rughzenhaide
This has been a big problem indeed. This "positivism" movement has been going for a while now and it's very frustrating. Obvious examples include Oreimo about a year and a half ago, Madoka about a year ago (even though it was #2 show of 2011 for me, I still thought that discussions were rather disgusting at times), Fate/Zero a few seasons ago, Nisemonogatari last season and Hyou-ka this season.
In fact, recently, on a certain thread it's gotten to a point where a mod (will not name) implicitly attacked me and in summary gave me this "if you don't like this show, then stop posting" attitude. I mean sure, it's somewhat understandable (though it shouldn't be tolerated) that some fanatics can't help themselves but attack people who criticise their treasure, but a mod being defensive over a show they like even after giving reasons. That one just takes the cake for crossing the line for me. It took me completely by surprise as well.
Yes, I can be blunt and I tend to hyperbole, but you know I do my fair share of "fanboying" too. Don't believe me? Go look at anything True Tears, PA Works, noitamina or Mari Okada related for example. Guaranteed, a large chunk of posts are by me. But the difference is I don't go on a retaliation spree when someone decides to diss them. In fact I jokingly diss them too when I know something that is related to them is obviously questionable.
Example: Mari Okada. She has done some excellent works and her subtle style of drama writing (when she actually tries, which is seldom these days) are some of the best in the industry. The problem is however is that lately she's gotten a bit of an ego and a few screws loose inside her head and wrote complete overwrought melodrama bombshells such as Black Rock Shooter. Same with PA Works. Another visually looked pretty bad compared to their other works and the latest Tari Tari PV looks like a economic version of Hanasaku Iroha. What did I do? Well I decided to mockingly diss them (whilst still being a massive fan of PA in general) instead of being "butthurt" at other posters negative comments.
Compare that to a situation this season where I explicitly said "Hyouka visuals are great, but it's nothing revolutionary as its visuals are comparable to what Guilty Crown and Hanasaku Iroha were last year". What did I get? Fanatics getting all angry that I didn't praise Kyoani enough and making implied remarks that I didn't know anything about how to assess -animation- and thus should stfu, when I was talking about visuals (which also include character designs, background art and coloring as well as animation) in the first place. Good grief! I even said that the show whilst boring so far, was not bad in any means. Heck my current avatar is a scene in the ED of Hyou-ka.
Same thing happened when I criticized the Nisemonogatari toothbrush episode and said that the last few episodes of Fate/Zero S1 where I criticized it for being badly paced and a bad way to end up a season (please don't bring up this split cour business...). The only popular show that didn't involve critics being attacked to bits was Guilty Crown, because it was "Standard" and about 70% of AS disliked it, so it was "Okay" and "socially acceptable" to hate on it. Yay for only being allowed to criticize if it conforms to popular trends and attitudes?
Anyways, after a good week or two of thinking I'm largely done with serious "negative" discussions on Animesuki. You can't have a serious negative discussion about anything that is popular on Animesuki anymore aside from designated hate threads (e.g. Anime you hate that everyone likes) without having fanatics hit you with scattershots at your negative remarks be it constructive or not. I'll just stick with positive discussions largely for now. Or posts that involve one liners that use the template "Omg how Moe was X" or "Dem/Dat Y".
Which reminds me, if one line negative remarks aren't tolerated, why are one line "fratboy" fan remarks tolerated when imo it's just as inconstructive. It's hypocritical. Both types of posts should be moderated or both shouldn't be moderated. If I had a preference, it will be latter since I never take one-line posts seriously and they don't annoy me.
Last edited by Pocari_Sweat; 2012-05-03 at 10:10.
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Good for you! I like you already!
a-bull wrote:Seems odd to be bothered by links,
Maybe you can find a link on it??
LindsaySF wrote:Hey Hoyden,
Melanie's intro thread was locked so I wanted to reply to you here:Good for you! I like you already!
Thank you!!
With the way I've been treated the last few days, you'd think I was a serial killer or something. I always thought standing up for something you believe in was an admirable trait...
LindsaySF wrote:Does he really have a problem with parasites?
Thanks so much. Umm... what was your name again? I remember Rocky's name but not yours! LOLhoulabulla? wrote:Hello Lindsay and Welcome. I have valued your advice I have been given on another forum. Had no idea of your age and it does not matter. I am neutral about the forums. I strictly use them for advice on raising my dog. This forum out of 4 that I have used is the best when it comes to info on the dogs. I still go back and forth it depends on what info I need and sometimes I like as much advice as I can get. Hang out for a while. Think you will enjoy your stay.
savagem wrote:Hey Linds,
I found your intro thread. Lindsay is intelligent and full of valuable knowledge. She knows her worms! And she helped me to extricate myself from the garbage on the other site, and for that I am eternally grateful. I see I've been banned for life over there now, and nothing could make me happier!
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Is Aaron definitely coming back to the tour?john a wrote:Aaron who??? hehe
Even he didn´t win all of his heat before he won the title... and the level is higher now so......
Youri rides more powerfull and makes it look easier in my opinion... But aaron is still a legend!
Btw Youri also landed 900 (in a copetition), and the bm9, kl9 - so all of the same stuff and some more than aaron...
Lets wait and see next year when they both will compete on tour! Going to be sick and so much fun to watch!
Well, maybe SS is looking to save a little coin, and Best has all that extra mad money they used to pay Shannon.E-Rock wrote:Can't imagine Slingshot is happy about that!
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01.20.2019 | 14 Shevat, 5779
Israel to demolish homes of Ofra and Givat Assaf terrorists
After swimmers banned, Malaysian PM says no Israelis allowed in country
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Music from the heart, across the world
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U.S. Senator: Rash pullout from Syria will create 'Iraq on steroids'
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Clinton concedes: 'We have still not shattered that highest and hardest glass ceiling'
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חַיֶיךָ וְחַיַי
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The Christian Edition- one month free subscription
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IN PICTURES: Epiphany celebration by the Jordan River
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This Normal Life
08/21/2015 10:21
"Let me take care of him. He's very sensitive," my optometrist Nadine whispered to her coworker in Hebrew behind the counter as she brought out my new glasses.
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|2008-02-20, 00:25
|Link #81
Join Date: Dec 2005
What is typesetting
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What else can I type, it's up to you
I know we're one, just me and you
I can't go on
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I want no other, no other typesetter
This is your life, our time
When we are together, I need your style forever
Is it typesetting
What is typesetting
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What is typesetting
Oh AFX, don't hurt me
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What is typesetting
Oh AFX, don't hurt me
Don't hurt me no more (oooh, oooh)
What is typesetting?
|2008-02-20, 13:14
|Link #84
Panda Herder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: A bombed out building in Beruit.
Can this thread be over now? I think koda's song will be the highest point it will see for the rest of its duration.
|2008-02-20, 14:35
|Link #85
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
Join Date: Aug 2007
Also, it seems like you literally used the most horrible examples you can have of #1 and #2 (seriously, Comic Sans? Why would you do that?), so I made my own versions:
#1: "Translation note"-esque translation of bag text
#2: Softsubbed and positioned text under original text (the outline got messed up a bit, it was supposed to be a bit transparent)
Personally I have to say that I prefer my #2 the most, even over your #4, because even though the text in your #4 "blends in" better I think it looks more unnatural and "tacked on" because of funky font choice and different font color than the original bag text.
Anyway, it's up to the typesetter (and translator) to decide what kind of approach out of these four should be used with different signs/onscreen texts. And even if you couldn't do #4 properly, I don't think it would be a problem if you are good at #2, since I'd say it's enough for most situations.
|2008-02-20, 15:39
|Link #87
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Well, we are planning to give out screenshots for you to decide. Words can say nothing, but our work can.
Here are a few examples.
1. Basic Note Style (just the translation with some very basic style)
2. Basic Sign Styling (angled text with a basic style)
3. Better Sign Styling (angled text with a better style)
4. Full Sign Typesetting Match (skewed/angled text with close fonts and pencil simulations)
See the difference?
Shots taken from this webpage.
If you need to see more examples, I'll be glad to show them to you later on.
|2008-02-20, 16:00
|Link #88
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
Join Date: Aug 2007
Of course I can see the difference. #4 looks the best, but personally I think the translation font should differ at least a bit more so that the viewer can notice with a simple glance what is translated and what is original text. This should be done in a way that it isn't distracting to the viewer, though. I would probably do something like this myself:
Softsubs with matching color and angles
This would be a good-looking solution (and relatively simple to do) in my opinion.
Note that if I was the actual typesetter for this, I would spend some time looking for a different font, but since this is just an example, I just used a font that I already had.
|2008-02-20, 16:09
|Link #89
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
well your font selection is bad in terms of thicknesses (my ideal goal is to match sizes and/or weights)... Plus that they have different handwritings, so don't you think they should have different fonts?
Also, if you watch that show (ep2 of School Days), you'll notice it starts out as a full text and then cut in half... so that's why in #4, the top note is cut.
The bottom font in #4 is actually an exact font, and the upper font is actually a comparisons of around a hundred handwritten fonts to the actual Japanese writing, and the strokes lengths and weights are matched as close as possible; it's a shame that the anime artist uses a well-known Japanese font.
Each of us has different beliefs. I believe that all subs should be removed from the video because they distract my enjoyments, and yet I need to know what they are talking about. Signs typesettings that get blended in nicely permit that belief.
Anyways, I don't know much about you in fansubbing or typesetting per se... So I'm not sure what work have you been involved with, but this is my ideal for signs typesettings.
|2008-02-20, 16:26
|Link #90
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
Join Date: Aug 2007
Yes, it all comes down to user preferences and I think we can clearly say that we prefer different things. I don't personally mind subtitles and they don't distract me the least bit (unless they are really, really, horribly styled, but fortunately I think I've only seen this kind of horror for once or twice at maximum). Like I said, in my opinion the translated text should be "highlighted" in some way so the viewer can quickly find it from the original text. That's why I used a thicker font than what the original writing is.
Also, regarding that particular scene: How important are those two short lines to the overall plot? I haven't watched School Days myself, so I couldn't know. But judging from the process you listed, I'd say it would take pretty long time of work just for those two little lines, and I'd rather have a little faster release with "rougher" sign typesetting than have "perfectly fine-tuned stroke widths" (I don't think anyone else would even notice this, because I didn't notice these little things when looking at the picture, so how would you do when viewing it for only a small time in the actual video?) and a release that takes forever.
And like I said, if I was the actual typesetter for that, I would most likely use two different fonts and spend some time looking for good handwriting fonts, but since I just made an example, I used what I already had. The point anyway was to demonstrate how a "highlighted" font is easier for the viewer, since it's recognized faster (in other words, it has a better readability in my opinion, and readibility is pretty important in a video that is constantly moving forward. In the ideal situation, you wouldn't have the need to stop the video in order to read on-screen signs).
One another thing though, if you really want font perfection, couldn't you just overwrite the original text after you achieve it? I don't think it would make a dramatical difference to lose the japanese writing, but it would make a huge difference when it comes to readability.
|2008-02-20, 17:15
|Link #91
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
It was a 15 minutes job... the sign's moving too... the total time for everything in ep2 (two typesetters) is about a few hours each (I think that sums up about 20-30 signs in ep2). I don't mind at all, since the outcome is really nice, and the speed was actually quite good until ep3 when other factors occurred, and honestly, TS never held up the project.
Not to sound arrogant, but ... Why bother even using handwriting fonts or your so-called 'highlighted' handwriting fonts when they don't even match? Won't using a sans font like Arial bold be more readable than your selection of handwriting fonts? And need I repeat that I already matched an EXACT font? Why using other font when I could have used an EXACT font that's used in the animation? There are more stuff than just angles, colors, fonts, and sizes in signs typesetting...
Your descriptions of 'typesettings' were already done by myself four years ago. After years of experience, talking to fellow fansubbers, and watching other fansubs, I've decided to do even better jobs than what I did before.
Anyways, which groups and projects are you working with? You seem to be more experienced than I am.
|2008-02-21, 00:29
|Link #92
Join Date: Aug 2004
All I have to say is that Typesetting a fun job that becomes a bitch when you have to do it frame by frame....
but I take pride in the work I do, whenever it gets released...
(and as usual, i'm always late to the party)
Last edited by chaos4ever; 2008-02-21 at 01:03.
|2008-02-21, 10:07
|Link #93
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
Join Date: Aug 2007
Like I've said, there's nothing wrong with trying to have "font perfection", but this is not it. You have good fonts, but they cause readability problems. I would actually call this bad typesetting because of this. Not even the best fonts can save anything if you can't read the text in question properly.
The version I made might be "cruder" when it comes to the fonts itself, but it doesn't fail in readability. Like you said, there are more stuff than just angles, colors, fonts and sizes in sign typesetting. Readability is one of them. It seems to me that you forgot this yourself in this case.
If possible, can you post more examples of what you have done? As far as I know, this might be just a special occasion where the readability is bad, but if this problem repeats then I think you have found something where you have room for improvement.
Also, you didn't answer my question the last time, so I'll ask it again: Have you thought about replacing the original Japanese text with the translated versions? It shouldn't be exactly hard to do, and since you have good fonts, it shouldn't dramatically change anything either. Instead, the readability would become instantly better, because there would be no unknown signs to confuse the viewers' thought process. But if the show has lots of other signs and lots of up-to-down writing, one replaced text might look funny, so it might not be a good idea after all. But like I said, I wouldn't know, since I haven't watched School Days.
Last edited by Daiz; 2008-02-21 at 10:20.
|2008-02-21, 19:51
|Link #94
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Netherlands
sometimes it's easier to remove the original text.. sometimes it's easier to place english next to it.. in that school days example, i prolly would've moved the japanese further apart, to make room for the line to put inbetween, or moved them closer together and placed the 2 english lines somewhere below. But as you said, removing the original text might look funny when there's a lot of other unreplaced signs.
|2008-02-21, 22:49
|Link #95
Join Date: Aug 2004
A lot of the typesetting solutions just depend on the preferences of the typesetter and, in some cases, the project leader. My personal preference would be to keep the matched font, keep the relative text sizes as equivalent as possible, but improve the spacing between some of the letters. In addition, I would space the lines a little more evenly between the jp and eng lines.
|2008-02-24, 21:57
|Link #96
Doremi-fansubs founder
Join Date: Mar 2004
Pichus, I have to politely disagree. If the scene is moving, your "perfect" typesetting would be useless if no one is able to scan the screen at the rate of 20 words in a second. Bullshit, a simple text on top timed to when the signs appear will suffice 99.999% of the time.
/an8 is your best friend. Use it.
|2008-02-25, 06:57
|Link #97
Saizen Supreme
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sweden
Age: 32
There is usualy a pause button >_>
Why have some useless text stuck at the top of the video for God knows how many seconds?
Why not use \an2 then? So that u don't miss the main subtitles while you're reading the "note/sign"?
I think nice typesetting has artistic value that should be more than welcomed.
Personally I love what pichu do =/
|2008-02-26, 02:13
|Link #99
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Also there are specific guidelines for typesetting I followed... And I'll try to avoid squeezing 20 words in one second... (with proper extensions, that one second can be extended to five seconds on movements - use common sense)
PS: Why is my thread being moderated? ._. (most talk that weren't deleted were even worse than those being deleted)
To Daiz:
Yes... And I hate it. It's more challenging to not replace it, and I have done it so many times seamlessly, so you can't tell whether or not that the original text has been altered.
Like I said, your so-called good typesetting was already old, done by myself four years ago... I don't need to listen what I already knew and experienced before. ANd you failed to answer me... WHAT IS YOUR TYPESETTING EXPERIENCE for you to speak so much of yourself.
Last edited by pichu; 2008-02-26 at 02:35. Reason: Reply
|2008-02-27, 00:59
|Link #100
Translator for Doremi
Typesetting is cool and everything, but it's not worth going emo over.
That said, if you're good at it, I applaud at your skill. It leaves weak ass Chinese-English translators like me in the dust. \an8 is the extent of my abilities, so I'll leave it up to you masters in making everything fancy and shit.
Thanks again for the logo for Bamboo Blade, pichu.
|Thread Tools


text:
When: Saturday 7th April 2018, 20:00 p.m.
Where: Anglian Water Birdwatching Centre, Egleton, LE15 8BT
Summary: Join our Trainee Reserves Officers for an evening of badger watching from our Badger Hide at Egleton.
The Badger Watch evenings start at around dusk and go on for approximately 2 hours. The hide is situated close to the badger set and here you can enjoy fantastic views as our resident family venture out on their evening forage. Not only do you have a chance to see the badgers, but also other nocturnal creatures and previous highlights include Tawny Owl, Barn Owl, Bats, Foxes and Muntjac Deer.
The cost is £10.00 per person, booking essential. Please click here to book online or telephone 01572 770 651.
Related categories: General


text:
|Murphys, Calif.
|High School:
|Bret Harte
2005 Track & Field Recap: Ran personal bests in the 1500m up to 10k in '05. She ran the 7th fastest UCSB All-Time 10k at the Stanford Invitational with a 36:38.84 and would go onto to take 5th in the 10000m at the Big West Championships.
2004 XC Recap: Seanna finished 21st at the Fresno Invitational early in the season. She followed that up by finishing 6th at the Cal Poly Invitational and was the 2nd collegiate finisher in that race running 18:31.2 on a tough Cal Poly course. Seanna was 25th at the Big West Championships.
2004 Track & Field Recap: Coming off of a great Cross Country season, Martin set personal bests in the 3,000m, 5,000m, and 10,000m and finished 8th in the 10k at the Big West Championship.
2003 XC Recap: Seanna made tremendous improvement in her sophomore season, finishing 17th at Big West and 65th at West Regionals as the Gauchos 5th runner...finished 245th at the NCAA National Championship.
2003 Track & Field Recap: Martin posted season bests of 2:18.32 (800m) and 4:53.00 (1,500m).
2002 XC Recap: Competed in the Big West Conference Championship for the Gauchos as a freshman, finishing 54th.
High School Notes: Won League and Sub-Section Championships at 800m and 1600m in 2002, qualified for CA State meet at 1600m in 2001.
Personal Bests 1500m: 4:40.81 5000m: 17:11.99 10000m: 36:38.84


text:
Serie A Wrap: Juve end Parma run, Milan triumph
Carlos Tevez's double ended Parma's 17-game unbeaten run in Serie A as Juventus moved a step closer to retaining their title with a 2-1 win.
The Turin giants stretched their lead at the top of the table to 14 points on Wednesday courtesy of a first-half brace from the Argentina striker, who is now the leading scorer in Serie A with 18 goals.
Tevez opened the scoring with a solo goal after 25 minutes and doubled their lead from close range seven minutes later at Juventus Stadium after Antonio Mirante had kept out Arturo Vidal's effort.
Cristian Molinaro gave Parma hope by pulling a goal back 62 minutes in, but Amauri was sent off for an elbow on Giorgio Chiellini and there was no way back as Juve continued their seemingly relentless march to another Scudetto and ensured the visitors remain in sixth spot.
Milan dealt a blow to fourth-placed Fiorentina's hopes of securing a UEFA Champions League spot as they secured a 2-0 win at Stadio Artemio Franchi.
Fiorentina went into Wednesday's clash on the back of an impressive 1-0 win at third-placed Napoli on Sunday, but they were brought crashing back down to earth by Clarence Seedorf's previously out-of-sorts side.
Philippe Mexes opened the scoring in the first half and Mario Balotelli struck after 64 minutes as Milan secured their first win six matches in all competitions.
Napoli put the disappointment of their defeat to Vincenzo Montella's side behind them by securing a 4-2 victory at bottom-of-the-table Catania.
Rafael Benitez's men stunned their beleaguered hosts by racing into a 4-0 half-time lead courtesy of Duvan Zapata's first two goals in Serie A and further strikes from Jose Callejon and Henrique, who opened his account for the Naples outfit.
Luciano Monzon and Norbert Gyomber pulled goals back after the break as Catania showed some fight, but defeat leaves them six points adrift of Bologna, who sit just above the relegation zone after they were beaten 3-0 at Chievo, with Alberto Paloschi scoring twice for the home side.
Second-bottom Sassuolo were unable to ease their relegation fears as they slumped to a 2-1 home defeat against Sampdoria, who had Vasco Regini sent off, while Livorno also remain in the bottom three following a 2-0 defeat at in-form Atalanta - who have now won their last five top-flight matches.
Cristian Ledesma was sent off as Lazio were beaten 2-0 at Genoa, while Nene scored the only goal as Cagliari got the better of Verona.


text:
Ming history: an introductory guide to research
History Dept., University of Minnesota, 1994 - History - 451 pages
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administrative alphabetically atlas basic annals Beijing biao bibliography biographies catalogue Chenghua Chinese characters Chinese history chronological Code collection compiled CONGSHU contents are arranged dictionary dissertations documentation edition emperor English entries essays followed four-corner ft ft gazetteers HUANG MING iuan Japanese juan Library listed literature lunar manuscript maps military Ming Dynasty Ming history Ming period MING SHILU MING STUDIES MINGREN MINGSHI month Nanjing number of strokes official person's name phonetic Pinyin place names prefecture Prince pronunciation published Qing radical and stroke reign period reign title shang Shanghai SHIZONG SIKU QUANSHU stroke order SUOYIN Suzhou table of contents Taipei Taiwan TAIZU temple name Tokyo TONGDIAN translation veritable records vols volume Wade-Giles Wade-Giles romanization Wang wenji Western Wuzong Xiaozong Yamane Yukio yiwen Yuan Yuan Dynasty Zhang ZHAOLING ZHONGGUO Zhonghua shuju Zhou


text:
Mistakes at Fukushima Expose Workers to Radiation
Workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant north of Tokyo were exposed to lightly contaminated water after a mix-up while trying to replace a pipe. Deborah Kan talks to WSJ's Jacob Schlesinger about the latest in a series of mistakes at the plant.
This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.
... the the ... she made ITT nuclear plant ... in Japan have been exposed to contaminated water after replacing the wrong height ... and ever con joining me now is Jake passenger ten Q your achieve ... a J Howard danger as I ... was this incident to the hull of the workers at the plant ... the information has been released it's not a question in a serious ... um exposure problem they were wearing heavy protective year was not ... heavily contaminated with an extended period ... aam the reason why its contention is because it's just the latest in a series of ... mistakes that have been made that plant that kind of call into question ... the broader confidence of what's going on there ... okay so what what we talk about the situation and I mean it doesn't care at more care about things like this as you mentioned ... that that the authorities act as though are really having a difficult time I aam ... containing this and so was the wife of what is it that they said ... in terms of um ... safety and dealing with that the plants ... Brendan ... Mann Forstall used to step back and they understand the prior three Rivers it is still a very highly radioactive material with a lot of ... the contaminated water ... and and and very dangerous environment there ... the key and they've gotten largely under control the sense that you know this not be reelected units being released the workers ... have a very clear safety regimen so ... pretty in that context I think you're finished and when you see some of these disturbing headline so it's ... it's not a question of Unitymedia safety in an unnamed concerns for their it's really just a question of how efficiently how quickly ... they can you'll continue to clean up the plant ... I and whether new problems continued to rise ... again and take one thing that I've semi Last rocked um of living in our far away from Japan ... what about the surrounding area as a mean and any at home being in a Ariad now up around the plant ... has been evacuated or how many residents than allowed back on it you know in in areas surrounding ... you know it it still faces danger area there's still thousands of people remain displaced on the still wanna be in the duty is to their situation is to win ... they will be able to move back home ... and that the needy in the area surrounding the plant is a ghost town and it is likely to be for quite some time ... and the hardest thing at I at it see it would appear is is dealing with the contaminated water it is that degree ... so that's the most immediate issue in the other ... questions and D contaminating the environment and are obviously important things to do but there is ... a lesson in urgency because the people are no longer living there to arrest the question is when they move efforts in the water ... the problem is that the quantities are getting bigger and bigger all the time and unless they ... can credibly contain it ... it does continue to grow Margaret does flow into the sea ... I'm and again and is Khona speaks to the question whether they have control over ... the content in a ... nation that exists at the plant ... okay thanks Fran that's


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tv The Cycle MSNBC November 3, 2012 3:00pm-4:00pm EDT
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you are in democracy plaza and more importantly here on "the cycle." i'm krystal ball. we're work forge the weekend to bring the best election coverage all around. >> i'm s.e. cupp then there were three. time is running out in this presidential race and both campaigns are running around. a presidential marathon and the finish line is the white house. >> i'm toure. "the cycle" is bringing to it you from our loins. >> i'm taking you to "the politico" twilight zone. >> all that plus dr. jay, governor ed rendell and we're crunching the numbers.
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"the cycle" is going big on this saturday, november 3rd, 2012. good special saturday cycle to you. and we are finally here. the ninth inning of the politics as baseball cycle game and to quote my fellow play-by-play man keith jackson, whoa nelly. [ laughter ] anyway the national poll shows a virtual tie with the president having a slight but persistent lead in some of the key battleground states. he has to close the deal. the deal is in the midwest. the candidates, their wives and running mates are covering eight battleground states in total today. we start by taking to you home
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base. mike, the president hits four states. what's his closing argument? >> we got ourselves a barn burner. i'm sitting here home alone. in the words of keith jackson and the words of david axelrod, his closing argument and this is the most memorable quote is coming from his loins. we saw the president come in late tonight. he was back out on the road early this morning. he stopped apartment fema one more time, back to helicopter, back to joint base andrews, back in air force one. he landed in mentor, ohio, that's northern ohio. in terms. closing argument, it's the same, basically the same stump speech but with that last final frenzy, that last bit of energy now that boston these candidates are
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giving it with just three days to go. let's go over the president's schedule. he started in ohio. they are in milwaukee at this point waiting for the president. he's airborne heading in that direction towards wisconsin. iowa and virginia. he end up in virginia and northern virginia tonight. i'll be out there accompanied by the dave matthews band. i'm looking forward to it. tomorrow sunday in new hampshire. florida. ohio. back to ohio and colorado. monday wisconsin, guess where, ohio after that. and then iowa before he finishes up in chicago where he will spend election eve. ohio we should mention nbc news and the marist organization yesterday put out their poll for ohio has the president up six. a whopping margin compared to what we've seen in the past. our poll even has the president up two in florida. so the obama team certainly optimistic and down the stretch they come to keep that sports metaphor going. >> love it.
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thank you. >> as for the challenger mitt romney needs to rally his troops and out gun the president's skilled operation. peter zand certificate on a plane right now with the romney campaign. he called this report for us right before takeoff. >> reporter: two stops down, three more to go today as part of the 72 hour final sprint for mitt romney here in dubuque, iowa there's been a unique opportunity on the campaign plane as we prepare to board for colorado. several of the governor's top advisers are traveling with the campaign today. of course predictions about what will happen on tuesday. there's a sense they are soaking in these final hours of a campaign that many of them have been working on during the course of the last five years. the governor here again offering bipartisan themes. he has tried to draw attention to the president's comments from yesterday in ohio we said not to boo but encouraged voters to
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vote. saying vote is tfor revenge. romney said vote for love of your country. to give you a sense of where this campaign stands as they look forward, the former governor of utah is traveling one of the first times with the campaign today. he's in charge of what's called the romney readiness pre-transition process as they prepare for a potential administration in his words. like building a ship that you hope will set sail. that's the latest from here in dubuque. back to you. >> in about 30 minutes we'll hear from paul ryan, campaigning for mitt romney in battleground virginia my home state. must be slightly awkward for him today given politico's exclusive story saying ryan wasn't romney ace first choice for vp, it was chris christie. so jonathan what do you make of these reports, your out let there. politico saying romney was planning on going with christie
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and after his trip to israeling changed his mind? >> there was a significant intrigue going on even as these candidates are rumbling, stumbling and bumbling around the country in the last week if i can borrow your keith jackson refrain there. >> can you have it, actually. i don't think i'll be doing that again. >> mike allen and jim from politico reported chris christie was the number one choice for mitt romney at one point, he went to london for the olympics, came back and ended up picking paul ryan. there's a lot of bad blood right now between the romney campaign and the chris christie folks and we're seeing that spill out here right in the last couple of days. >> you know, let me inject. i've not plugged into the romney campaign like "the politico" guys. i know about christie. i'm skeptical of the idea that there ever was a moment when romney was going to pick
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christie for this. it seems cute that it's coming out at this moment. jonathan i want to ask you about demographics heading in to this tuesday. seems like there's basically a test that we're going to find out. can obama win re-election with a historically small share of the white vote which basically means will the nonwhite vote share of the electorate rise to new levels that will allow him to survive, like latino support and black support. obama people say hey turn out among blacks and la zwroins will be as high as in 2008 and republicans saying no it won't. do you have a sense who is right in that dispute? >> increasingly what you've seen a department coalition over the years that has been built on african-americans, hispanic, women. we see the huge gap, gender gap between barack obama and mitt romney. and some white men and increationly you see republican party that's the majority, large majority of white men and a gap on the other side.
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so that is a test, i think we'll see. one of the questions about all the polls we've seen are the models they are using correct. is it going to be 75% white electorate? is it 77%? 72%? is the hispanic share of the electorate going to be 7%, 10%, 12%? so i think we'll get those answers to those questions. an interest ago side to that story about chris christie today, there was a romney official quoted anonymously in that story talking about how ohio is the only state where mitt romney's gender gap among men, his advantage among men is not bigger than his gender deficit among women. which seems to be a concession from that official at least that he's losing ohio because obviously all of the voters are either men or women. >> excellent analysis there. >> the voters are either men or women.
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there you go. throughout this campaign the democratic brand has been above water and more popular than the gop brand which has been consistently under water and less popular than the democratic brand. the entire time in this whole campaign. it's not just a party i.d. issue. not just akin or mourdock. do you think the gop brand is drag romney down just enough? >> well i think a few years ago congressman tom davis of virginia had talked about this basically saying the gop brand was dog food. i think it's better than it was then. i do think that -- look i think romney has had a lot of things to overcome in terms above signatureses that he took in the primary when he talked about being severely conservative. not necessarily the republican brand but perhaps the conservative wing of the republican party was hard for him to make that pivot to the middle. we'll find out on tuesday if that was an insurmountable obstacle or he wrangled free
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from. public officials are held in low esteem. all you have to look at is congressional approval ratings to understand americans don't have a lot of fate in their officials. >> the president has been repeating the line don't boo, vote at rallies. he's tacked on another adage and mitt romney has respond. let's take a listen to that. >> at the time the republican congress any senate candidate by the name of mitt romney -- no, no, no. don't boo, vote. vote. voting is the best revenge. >> speaking to an audience he said voting is the best revenge. he told his supporters voting for revenge. vote for revenge. let me tell you what i would like to tell you. vote for love of country. >> aside from giving mitt romney
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a nice opportunity to sound patriotic what do you think obama meant by revenge? romney has not been president. he hasn't inflicted any policies on anyone. revenge for merely running against him? is it revenge for challenging him? what do you think? >> i think there's a real question, there revenge for what? mitt romney hasn't been a president of the united states. he was governor of massachusetts, so maybe if you were talking to a massachusetts audience which the president wasn't there might be something to feel like you have a revenge against. i'm not sure what he meant. seems like an odd way to talk about voting. however, i do think the president has spent the last couple of days trying to fire up his base. i think his message has been much more tailored to that even the talk you're hearing from his aides, david axelrod, his energy is coming from his loins which axelrod said which is the crudest thing i've ever heard anybody say about a sitting president. is this base motivation stuff.
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romney seems to be trying to make that end of campaign sale to the middle. >> let me just say do i not have a hard time seeing what obama meant right there. he was connecting romney to a republican party that for instance presented a jobs bill. refused to cooperate, refused to critic. republican party obstructed just about the entire obama agenda for the last four years. the republican party whose leader in the senate -- >> it's an inspiring message to get revenge on people you've never met. >> it is a response to a republican senate leader who said his first priority was defeating barack obama for re-election. his first priority as a leader in the legislative branch the office defeat barack obama. >> so get revenge for something he said four years ago. >> spent four years obstructing the agenda. i know what he said. >> dr. jay thanks for hanging
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we can cut you a check, or, at our service center, we take care of everything for you. [ relaxing music playing ] [ chuckles ] -whew, so many choices. -take your time. -the service center. -okay. giving you choices -- now, that's progressive. call or click today. >> you can look at my record. you can see i can bring change. i helped bring it. the difference between us he made promises he couldn't keep. i am making promises i have kept
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and i will keep them for the american people. >> duking it out in dubuque. at mitt romney in dubuque, iowa where the president will campaign tonight. here at the cycle we've been examining the most important states for this year's presidential election. today we take a hard look at the state that starts the race and might end it, iowa. it's known foreclose elections, carries six electoral votes and of all the swing states it has the best economy by far. according to real clear politics poll average president obama is currently leading by two points. with political ads running across the state 24/7 how will iowa shake out on tuesday? guys i think iowa is a weird state. we can all agree. >> no, no. i have friends in iowa. >> i liken to it the new hampshire of the midwest. there's a real strong independent streak there and it's hard to pin down their political leanings. i know you'll get into that in a
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little bit. but i just wanted to bring up a blog post that jeffrey anderson had at the weekly standard. he was talking about turnout. in 2008 democrats had a one. -poi -- one-point advantage. in the point of this post was i have to think that will tighten. if there's good news for iowa for mitt romney, it's that turnout probably won't be as great for democrats as it was in 2008. and i think that, you know, the tiny margin in '08 that 1% at one point has republicans thinking that iowa is gettable and it's why you've seen them sort of run into the state with an increased ground game. >> i was in iowa last year and i like to play this game where i say why should iowa be first in the nation.
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and they get very upset. they take their role in politics very seriously and they really try to know everything about the candidates. this is a very serious political state. i want has a progressive tradition. eve gone for a democrat four of the last five times only for bush in '04. we thent for gore, clinton twice and this is a state not feeling the pain. 5% unemployment. they didn't have the foreclosure problem. they are a prosperous state. the recession skips over iowa. they are liking obama. >> whatever happens, whoever wins and we did our election maps and i have iowa going to obama, iowa is a state where romney will have his best gains in the country where john mccain didn't in 2008. this was a 10 or 11 point race in 2008. now two, three, four would be a lot for obama. you can go back to 2004, bush won a squeaker. in 2000 gore won it by 4,000. iowa is two states.
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we say it's a progressive tradition. there's a ton of social conservative, religious social conservatives in western iowa and there's also a lot of these white working class middle class voters as a demo brafic have turned hard on obama across the country. iowa, they are particularly pronounced in that state. a lot more for romney to work with. your point is key, i mentioned this last week on the show. in the 1980s iowa was an exception. the national economy was strong. farm economy collapsed in iowa and iowa took it out on george bush sr. we might see the opposite where the economy is weak in a lot of places but stronger in iowa. >> iowa voted for revenge. interesting. >> great reason to vote. >> to your point that's why the social consciences that's why mike huckabee and rick santorum do well in iowa. i don't think obama or romney are well suited to iowa. did i just say ohio? i meant iowa.
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>> iowa. >> anyway, i don't think eat of those candidates are particularly well suited because there's a strong populace strain in iowa politics. i ultimately do have it going blue if you look at the polls. romney has never led in iowa, interestingly even though as you pointsed out the democrats held a slight advantage in voting in registration numbers in 2008. they are turning out the same number in terms of early votes. they have a 60,000 vote advantage this year at this time versus in 2008 which is the same. so i think ultimately it is going to go to president obama. >> i have it going red but, again, i think we put up that chart of presidential voting history since 1972 it's picked republican president five times, a democrat president five times. guess this is like the rubber match. just quickly want to note that yesterday i laid down some smack is what i did.
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>> a group smack down. >> i spoke for the group. yes. when i made some intimidating remarks. take a look. with all due respect mr. mayor, what the hell your thinking? heartbroken residents of the five boroughs do not want to watch out of towners jog through their neighborhood as they dig out of wreckage. so do the right thing postpone this race mayor bloomberg. so you're welcome obviously. it was reported that they cancelled the marathon due to noise. >> my favorite part -- >> i'm noisy. >> was the e-mail from s.e. who said i'm drunk with power. >> i'm drunk with power. >> so, you were noise that made the mayor said enough. >> i'm going to take this opportunity i'm calling on the
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sun to set in the west today. listen to me sun and do it. we'll have a follow up on monday. >> ridiculous. >> up next the one, the only ed rendell he'll join us from his home state battleground pennsylvania. can romney still take it or said lock for obama. cycle on with us live from democracy plaza. ♪
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we have gone on a trip to democracy plaza. can you taste the freedom? this is a very special cycle. in the guest spot i call him biggy small, former pennsylvania governor ed rendell. governor, hope the eagles aren't getting you down. >>. >> it's little depressing. guys, listening to you guys it's clear this election has lasted at least a week too long. [ laughter ] >> fair point. >> all right. >> okay. all right. we'll take that with the love aassume that it's meant with. >> it is. you guys have been heroic but you shot your bulb. it's done. >> all right. thank you, sir. look peninsula is a diverse state, it's urban and rural, black and white. it seems like a little american in a lot of ways. when i look at this election we see obama is about to get crushed among white voters but
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about to dominant with black and brown voters which may carry him over the goal line. are we at a place in america where white america can get together pick a candidate and still not get what they want? >> i think we've reached that place. to say that it's white america all for romney and against obama is wrong. president obama will win pennsylvania if he toes and i think he will is in the philadelphia suburbs which are predominantly 85%, 90% white. that's where you have progressive democrats in the suburbs become being increasingly democrat. you got the last of the moderate republicans and a lot of independents as well. and they are voters who are intelligent, they care about the environment, they care about social justice, they care about causes like women's right to choose, et cetera. and those white voters will stay with the president in significant numbers and that's what will bring him to victory in pennsylvania. pennsylvania is a state with
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about a 10% to 12% african-american population and about a 6% to 8% latino population. so white voters still dominate pennsylvania and you got to get your share. the president does. the president in '08 when he carried this state by 11 points he lost 11 out of the 12 southwestern pennsylvania traditionally democratic counties which are all essentially blue collar, white working class counties where they are pretty much pro gun and fairly conservative democrats. but he still won the state by 11 points. >> governor, i've seen a lot of smart people say and write obama can't lead romney can work across the aisle that's why we should go for romney. which of course builds, plays in to the strategy of obstruction. republicans refuse to work with obama, making him seem like he can't lead and romney gets to come in and says i'll break the gridlock which ultimately is a strategy which rewards
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obstruction and says there's no pain for it, this is horrific behavior it's okay we'll reward it. do you understand why smart people would look at what's actually going on in washington and add it up that way and not want to punish the republicans for obstruction? >> no. i really can't. when you think about it, the president gets criticized for not reaching across the aisle. what did mitch mcconnell say early on in the first year of president obama's presidency. our number one goal is to make sure barack obama is he's a one term president. he's been faced with resistance by republicans. contrast that to george w. bush. his major initiatives, war in iraq, medicare part d and no child left behind had substantial democratic support. in no child left behind, the leading liberal in the senate ted kennedy joining with president bush to push no child
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left behind. contrast that to the way the republicans treated barack obama and you see the total hypocrisy of that claim. >> governor, philadelphia aside obama's biggest drop off has been among middle to upper class suburban women. why do you think that is? you know the state. >> because the economy is not doing well. pennsylvania's economy has taken a nose dive since i left. when i left -- well truth is truth. when i left we were 7.4% unemployment, almost two points below the national average. we're now above the national average by a third of a point. so, it's significant. but the economy has not done well and suburban women are conscious of the economy. you'll know right away in pennsylvania, you don't have to look far to see whether this will be a close race. just look at the turnout in philadelphia.
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if the turnout approaches '08 levels it's katie bar the door, philadelphia will give obama so many votes there's no way the rest of the state can come pen st. two the philadelphia suburbs. unless mitt romney is running close to even in a couple of those four suburban or five suburban counties, he has no chance to win the state. i'm not saying it won't happen but i think it's unlikely. >> me too. >> what i thought the romney camp -- i thought the romney campaign made a big mistake after his first debate if he went to pennsylvania spent $4 million a week, came to the state, he and ryan came to the state five or six time he might have put the state in play. you can't do it in seven days. it's just not possible. >> governor, that's what i can't figure out because for the longest time we've been talking about this narrow electoral path that romney has. he has to win either ohio or wisconsin and we've seen in the last week they are not making the kind of headway there they need.
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there's this late push in pennsylvania. we've seen polling in the last couple of weeks showing michigan a state obama won by 16 points now down to single digit. minnesota, it could be in play. i'm astounded the romney campaign with all the money hit or more possible to the point the money the super p.a.c.s had never tried to lay the ground work. >> it is astounding considering the money they had and considering they had the brightest political strategist in the country in karl rove. where was karl rove in those states after that first debate. he should have jumped on these states anticipate as soon as they saw momentum pennsylvania went from 9 to 6 pretty fast. there was momentum. there was momentum in michigan. i wouldn't have waited until the last week especially because it's not a question resource. they have the money. you show see what's going on in pennsylvania now. it's ludicrous. we have back-to-back ads against
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president obama from the various super p.a.c.s. that's wasted because you compressled knit to one week. by the way in a week where president obama probably had his best independent week in the end news, the real news of the campaign. you know, they are trashing president obama while he's looking like what is it 78-8 people think he's done a good job on hurricane sandy. it's tough with that type of week it's just -- it gets enough. now i think the only hope for the romney folks is let's say this ad blitz stimulates their base and they come out in pennsylvania in numbers that they were not likely to come out in before. and the obama base still remains over confident or lethargic, et cetera. i don't think that's going to happen. i think ofa still has an excellent ground operation. i've been going around to ofa staging places the last couple of days. and the ofa people are fired up.
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there hasn't been that much activity visible as of yet but in the last four days they can do a lot. they got a very, very good organization. so i think the odds are very difficult for romney here. >> governor, you just mentioned hurricane sandy. i want you to quickly weigh in on president obama and chris christie bromance. robert mourdock said christie needs to redeclare for romney or take the blame for the next four years. do they need to reto their vow? >> if i were the romney campaign and believe me i'm not -- my advice is obviously from a tainted source but if i were, i would give chris to come in to pennsylvania and appear with governor romney. i think that, number one, would be good for chris christie's future in the republican party and two at least meet some of the appearance of him being with president obama. i think rupert mourdock had a
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moment of sanity. a brief moment of sanity. >> all right. governor ed rendell thank you very much. >> thanks guys. hang in there. >> thank you. from biggy small to nate dog. right ahead nate the number cruncher is take a break from his saturday cartoons and talks about what he calls the popular vote nightmare. i'm done!
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you've heard that possibility first floated by someone who is wearing gray sweaters all week on this show a while back. nate cohen is taking it a step further. he laid out a detailed scenario, vote turnout nightmare. let me ask you first about the popular vote issue. what we've talked about on this show before is the idea that obama is sort of underperforming in democratic states, he's going win anyway, he's had more of a falloff in blue states than elsewhere and that could drag down his national popular vote total. do you think there's potential then when you add in the hurricane and the logistical issues that come out of that that further depresses turnout in new jersey or something and affects the national popular vote? >> i do think the blue states would be responsible for obama loss in the popular vote if he
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was winning the electoral college. there are recent polls out of massachusetts, connecticut and california in the last 24 hours that shows obama losing nine to ten points even more than that in connecticut off of his 2008 performance and that would represent a pretty substantial decline that's greater than that elsewhere in the country. in terms of the hurricane it's hard to say. i'm not sure about what areas are affected. the atlantic coast of new jersey is not in a democratic area. staten island will vote for romney. suffolk county, new york is divided. i don't know how much turnout will fall on the city of new york. if i want does it would make a difference. >> democrats are contesting on the shore, there's talk maybe the republican areas hardest hit there. i want to ask you another thing about the battleground. i took a look this morning and it seems there's basically a fire wall here that obama has on tuesday that involves three states, ohio, wisconsin, and nevada. if romney won basically everything else that's up for grabs in not these three states
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he would be short of 270. he would have 267. if you look at the clear averages in these three states these are persistent leads. ohio, wisconsin, nevada. are we at a point where the only hope for romney there's something wrong in the method oflg these state polls? >> i think we're about at that point opinion he has a couple of days left for him to make a come back. there isn't a single poll, a single nonpartisan poll in ohio, wisconsin or nevada that shows romney in the lead. and, yes, you know the polls have been wrong before and it's conceivable that things can be off. you can ask about sharon engel if polls are right. the overwhelming majority of the time when someone holds a lead of this magnitude, this consistently, they wine up winning. and, you know, there are reasons to think the polls could be off. it's tough to talk to people on cell phones. assumptions about turn out are more important than ever.
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but, yeah, you're right i think the polls have to be wrong at this state level. >> polls ask who are you going to vote for but there's data around polls who do you think will win and that's extraordinarily predictive. why is that question so predictive when we make people into mini anthropologists. >> it's what people are hearing. people are hearing stuff about romney. the average person, you know, has an idea that the president is still pretty popular. that makes them think that, you know, most voters or swing voters will tilt a little more in obama's direction. that has an effect on swing voters. not in a direct sense that they think obama will win but the balance of information that people are hearing out there is the same information that will sway swing voters. it makes sense it would be a
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pretty decent relationship between the actual results and what people think. >> nate, i got to be honest. i care little for polls. let's gossip instead. i'm sure you've seen some of the blow back against the other nate for some of his predictions. i want to put up a tweet who said the degree to which people put their faith in nate silver goes against everything nate silver stands for. she's a fan. you guys have taken on something of a mythic quality like something out of oz or lord of the rings. when did you number crunchers become like rock stars? >> well, i don't think there's anything mythical or magical about it. the poll says obama will win in the swing states. nate silver says obama is ahead in the swing states and win the electoral college. the polls are usually right. the model acknowledges the polls could be wrong.
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that chance is at 15% based on the same sort of analysis i gave earlier that look there are a few examples when the polls are off this much. ken buck, sharon engel, hilary and obama in new hampshire but more the exception than rule therefore obama is the favorite. if obama wins i don't think that makes, you know, nate silver or myself or anyone else who stairs at the polls and says obama is favored, you know, being incredibly insightful. polls are right and pollsters get the credit. if obama loses i don't think nate silver should be panned out. i don't think either. >> never pan you. >> you could use your wizardry to answer this question. isn't it quite possible at this point in terms of electoral college when you're looking at the key battleground states the president has a lead in most them. isn't it possible the president will win the electoral college
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in a landslide. >> i don't think it would constitute a landslide. but it's easy to see how grab gets to 303 or 332. by bush-gore standards it's a landslide. pretty middle of the road. >> in speaking of that you have reviewed all of our map. we have made your own electoral college picks and you chose a favorite using your wizardry. >> yeah. i thought that your map actually was the best. >> hey. >> sorry guys. >> landslide prediction. >> don't necessarily think this is the best map because i agree wildfirery state here. i don't think that obama is favored in florida and colorado and virginia strike me as coin flips. but there's a consistency that's, you know, evident in your map. obama is probably likely to win both colorado and virginia if he wins either of them and if obama
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wins florida he's probably going to win say virginia and that i think complicates some of the other maps and steve's instance i think he showed obama losing colorado but winning virginia and i think that's possible but unlikely. i think s.e. was right focus on new hampshire and iowa as potential areas of weakness for obama but gosh the polls are getting out of hand for romney in wisconsin. he's down by like seven or eight points in wisconsin. >> i'm counting on cheese heads across the state to pull it out for romney those. >> nate, i've been sticking up for your but after that if you guys are wrong next week you are discredited. thanks for joining us nate cohn. up next politico twi light zone. exploring alternate, election day realities. one of them is pretty scary. keep it here on msnbc, with nonstop politics from here to election day.
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in today's back spin, we enter into the political twilight zone. what would washington look like with mitt romney in the white house? how about democrats in full control of congress? >> no. >> or crazier still, donald trump winning the write-in vote. so i was thinking about what would happen if romney were to win and either republicans take control of the senate or democrats take control of the senate. and harry reid made some news this week with a quote. he was talking about romney's argument that he would reach out to democrats and they would be able to work together.
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he said mitt romney's fantasy that senate democrats will work with him to pass his severely conservative agenda is laughable. >> ouch. >> i tend to agree with harry reid, not only because romney said on day one the first thing he is going to do is repeal obama care, which democrats care very deeply about and will fight the hold on to, but if romney wins, it's going to be this vindication of this strategy of obstructionism. i think democrats may not go to the extent of holding the country hostage over raising the debt ceiling, but i think they will try to employee some of the same tactics. >> i think the underreported story of october was for the period when the odds of mitt romney winning increased, simultaneously the odds of the republicans winning back the senate decreased. the chances are very good the democrats will hold on to the senate. if romney somehow wins this thing next week and the republicans were to win the house, they needed the slimmest majority and they can pass
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through reconciliation. if the democrats win, it's going to be tougher to advance. the flip side is if obama is elect and the republicans still have control of the house, i think the big gain there for democrats is they consolidate what they achieved in the last four years, and obama will then have leverage in dealing with this fiscal cliff. i don't like that term, but the fiscal cliff, and he will be able to make a stand and finally get rid of the bush rates, at least for the high earners. that will be a big difference. >> something has to happen. >> if obstruction is rewarded, he will be emotionally hurt. it will bother me deeply. i wouldn't blame harry reid for obstructing in response. it's not right. i shouldn't feel that way. he shouldn't do that. i don't like the republicans did it. so we shouldn't do it back. but i wouldn't blame him. >> revenge! >> absolutely. i don't think the democrats can do it. i don't think that we are idealogically unified in that way. and we talk about that republicans like stand on principle, and democratic voters like stand on compromise. go for compromise. that's not what the democrats are about. i don't know if they are going to be able to do that.
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>> well, i just had a to-do list. whoever is elected, we'll start with obama, i have a to do list. if we can put it up on the screen. should it look pretty familiar to his supporters, because it's all of the things that he promised to do and hasn't, from cutting the deficit, lowering the debt, reducing dependency on foreign oil, address home foreclosures, reclose income inequality, reduce poverty, get tough in iran, reform social security and medicare. these are things that i think are important to a wide swath of americans. i would add to that list answer questions on benghazi. but i'll put up my to-do list for romney. it's the same -- it's the same list. these are the things that i want to get done that haven't been addressed i think as full throatedly as they should have been over the past four years. and now they're even more dire. so i hope both guys are watching, and these are the things that they focus on. >> can i see your gary johnson to-do list? >> shoot! >> sorry, gary johnson.
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i totally shortchanged him there. >> and i do think -- i think steve made a really important point here that if the president is reelected, one of the questions has been the house is likely to stay republican. the senate is likely to stay democratic. people are justifiably frustrated with how slow progress has been. as tory said, i agree with that assessment because republicans said on day one we are not going to work with this president. what would be different in a second term. and i think your point that things have to happen because of the way legislatively things are coming down, the bush tax cuts expiring. >> right. >> sequestration, something has to happen with that. >> that's the only thing. my issue is this. beyond that, for obama to be able to get something done with the republican congress next term, this election needed to deliver a message to republicans. they need to cooperate. and i think if they lose, the only conclusion they're going to draw is hurricane sandy cost it for us. >> all right that wraps it up for "the cycle" from democracy plaza. we will see you right back on monday. tamron hall is straight ahead
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Gaucho wrote:Hopefully Letang can do the same for Scuderi. Or vice versa. Or just play Despres.
Playing Despres is blasphemy!
Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf
Gaucho wrote:Hopefully Letang can do the same for Scuderi. Or vice versa. Or just play Despres.
meow wrote:Jesse wrote:Guys, I've been watching hockey for my entire life and I cannot explain what it is about Paul Martin that just inexplicably brings out the best in Brooks Orpik. After a really bad month without him, Orpik's Corsi-For percentage was 75% last night with Martin. Only three shooting attempts against that pairing.
I don't care if its something we can never understand, Paul Martin is a wizard and I love it.
Wizardry, trust, chemistry, black magic, mind-melt. A combination of all these elements.
Jesse wrote:I love BB with Sid, I just hope it doesn't turn into Barnum and Bailey out there.
dodint wrote:I thoght Dupuis was promised Sids wing.
darkstar57 wrote:wondermoose wrote:Jesse wrote:The top line with Bennett got a little too fancy for my tastes last night. I think that's ultimately why Bylsma moved Neal up to that unit later in the game.
My concern with Bennett is that you get the most from him when he's carrying the puck. He was making play after play the first couple of games and, while I thought the top line played pretty well, I think Beau probably helps the Sutter or Jokinen lines a lot more. Sid, Stemp, and Kunitz have been just fine.
I actually think that is why you need BB with Crosby. Teams limit Crosby time and space in the playoffs, by having BB carry the puck, it prevents teams from shut down Sid and that line losing its effectiveness.
Mad City Mike wrote:- A win is a win, but another inconsistent effort.
DesertPenguin wrote:Way to early to really say for sure, but would keeping Bennett as Sid'd long term RW really be so bad? Maybe we don't need to trade for a winger for Sid. Personally I think this lineup would be killer, and is feasible under the cap for next season:
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($3.500m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.000m) / Lee Stempniak ($3.000m)
Adam Payerl ($0.627m) / Marcel Goc ($2.200m) / Jayson Megna ($0.874m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m)
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($1.700m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) /
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $248,375
Idoit40fans wrote:I still dont understand the push for Kulemin.
columbia wrote:I'd trade Neal for Kesler.
Crankshaft wrote:I'm not sure if I would trade Neal for Kesler.
Mango Salsa wrote:Ive been noticing a trend lately that this years whipping boy (Letang) is now being touted as the savior and missing link on our much maligned defense. Did everyone forget what a turd he was this season?
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:Mango Salsa wrote:Ive been noticing a trend lately that this years whipping boy (Letang) is now being touted as the savior and missing link on our much maligned defense. Did everyone forget what a turd he was this season?
It's a combination of a ton of sympathy being garnered from his stroke as well as realization that Skud, Orpik and Engellend (as a d-man) are all doing pretty poorly. Letang can be inconsistent but I'd rather lose with him playing than with those three playing instead of him.
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Angelina Jolie & Brad Pitt: Post-Engagement Vacation with the Kids!
Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt arrive at the Baltra Airport on the Galapagos Islands for some family vacation time with the kids earlier this week.
The newly engaged couple brought along the entire family for the tropical vacay. Maddox, Pax, Zahara, Shiloh, Vivienne, and Knox joined mom and dad in the celebration of their post-engagement announcement vacation!
PHOTOS: Check out the latest pics of Angelina Jolie
Angelina's engagement ring was designed by Brad with jeweler Robert Procop. Check out the pic of her beautiful jewel in case you missed it!