text:
The Identity and Meaning of Chashmonai [1]
By Mitchell First (firstname.lastname@example.com)
The name Chashmonai appears many times in the Babylonian Talmud, but usually the references are vague. The references are either to beit Chashmonai, malkhut Chashmonai, malkhut beit Chashmonai, malkhei beit Chashmonai, or beit dino shel Chashmonai.[2] One time (at Megillah 11a) the reference is to an individual named Chashmonai, but neither his father nor his sons are named.
The term Chashmonai (with the spelling חשמוניי) appears two times in the Jerusalem Talmud, once in the second chapter of Taanit and the other in a parallel passage in the first chapter of Megillah.[3] Both times the reference is to the story of Judah defeating the Syrian military commander Nicanor,[4] although Judah is not mentioned by name. In the passage in Taanit, the reference is to echad mi-shel beit Chashmonai.[5] In the passage in Megillah, the reference is to echad mi-shel Chashmonai. Almost certainly, the passage in Taanit preserves the original reading.[6] If so, the reference is again vague.
Critically, the name Chashmonai is not found in any form in I or II Maccabees, our main sources for the historical background of the events of Chanukkah.[7] But fortunately the name does appear in two sources in Tannaitic literature.[8] It is only through one of these two sources that we can get a handle on the identity of Chashmonai.
Already in the late first century, the identity of Chashmonai seems to have been a mystery to Josephus. (Josephus must have heard of the name from his extensive Pharisaic education, and from being from the family.) In his Jewish War, he identifies Chashmonai as the father of Mattathias.[9] Later, at XII, 265 of his Antiquities, he identifies Chashmonai as the great-grandfather of Mattathias.[10] Probably, his approach here is the result of his knowing from I Maccabees 2:1 that Mattathias was the son of a John who was the son of a Simon, and deciding to integrate the name Chashmonai with this data by making him the father of Simon.[11] It is very likely that Josephus had no actual knowledge of the identity of Chashmonai and was just speculating here. It is too coincidental that he places Chashmonai as the father of Simon, where there is room for him. If Josephus truly had a tradition from his family about the specific identity of Chashmonai, it would already have been included in his Jewish War.
The standard printed text at Megillah 11a implies that Chashmonai is not Mattathias: she-he-emadeti lahem Shimon ha-Tzaddik ve-Chashmonai u-vanav u-Matityah kohen gadol…This is also the implication of the standard printed text at Soferim 20:8, when it sets forth the Palestinian version of the Amidah insertion for Chanukkah; the text includes the phrase: Matityahu ben Yochanan kohen gadol ve-Chashmonai u-vanav...[12] There are also midrashim on Chanukkah that refer to a Chashmonai who was a separate person from Mattathias and who was instrumental in the revolt.[13]
But the fact that I Maccabees does not mention any separate individual named Chashmonai involved in the revolt strongly suggests that there was no such individual. Moreover, there are alternative readings at both Megillah 11a and Soferim 20:8.[14] Also, the midrashim on Chanukkah that refer to a Chashmonai who was a separate person from Mattathias are late midrashim.[15] In the prevalent version of Al ha-Nissim today, Chashmonai has no vav preceding it.[16]
If there was no separate person named Chashmonai at the time of the revolt, and if the statement of Josephus that Chashmonai was the great-grandfather of Mattathias is only a conjecture, who was Chashmonai?
Let us look at our two earliest sources for Chashmonai. One of these is M. Middot 1:6.[17]
…המוקד בבית היו לשכות ארבע
[18]…ייון מלכי ששיקצום המזבח אבני את חשמוניי בני גנזו בה צפונית מזרחית
From here, it seems that Chashmonai is just another name for Mattathias. This is also the implication of Chashmonai in many of the later passages.[19]
The other Tannaitic source for Chashmonai is Seder Olam, chap. 30. Here the language is: malkhut beit Chashmonai meah ve-shalosh =the dynasty of the House of Chashmonai, 103 [years].[20] Although one does not have to interpret Chashmonai here as a reference to Mattathias, this interpretation does fit this passage.
Thus a reasonable approach based on these two early sources is to interpret Chashmonai as another way of referring to Mattathias.[21] But we still do not know why these sources would refer to him in this way. Of course, one possibility is that it was his additional name.[22] Just like each of his five sons had an additional name,[23] perhaps Chashmonai was the additional name of Mattathias.[24] But I Maccabees, which stated that each of Mattathias' sons had an additional name, did not make any such statement in the case of Mattathias himself.
Perhaps we should not deduce much from this omission. Nothing required the author of I Maccabees to mention that Mattathias had an additional name. But one scholar has suggested an interesting reason for the omission. It is very likely that a main purpose of I Maccabees was the glorification of Mattathias in order to legitimize the rule of his descendants.[25] Their rule needed legitimization because the family was not from the priestly watch of Yedayah. Traditionally, the high priest came from this watch.[26] I Maccabees achieves its purpose by portraying a zealous Mattathias and creating parallels between Mattathias and the Biblical Pinchas, who was rewarded with the priesthood for his zealousness.[27] Perhaps, it has been suggested, the author of I Maccabees left out the additional name for Mattathias because it would remind readers of the obscure origin of the dynasty.[28] (We will discuss why this might have been the case when we discuss the meaning of the name in the next section.)
We have seen that a reasonable approach, based on the two earliest rabbinic sources, is to interpret Chashmonai as another way of referring to Mattathias.
The next question is the meaning of the name. The name could be based on the name of some earlier ancestor of Mattathias. But we have no clear knowledge of any ancestor of Mattathias with this name.[29] Moreover, this only begs the question of where the earlier ancestor would have obtained this name.[30] The most widely held view is that the name Chashmonai derives from a place that some ancestor of Mattathias hailed from a few generations earlier. (Mattathias and his immediate ancestors hailed from Modin.[31]) For example, Joshua 15:27 refers to a place called Cheshmon in the area of the tribe of
Alternatively, a location Chashmonah is mentioned at Numbers 33:29-30 as
one of the places that the Israelites encamped in the desert.[33] In
either of these interpretations, the name may have reminded others of the
obscure origin of Mattathias' ancestors and hence the author of I Maccabees
might have refrained from using it.
It has also been observed that the word חשמנים (Chashmanim) occurs at Psalms 68:32:
.לאלקים מני מצרים; כוש תריץ ידיו חַשְׁמַנִּים יאתיו
Chashmanim will come out of Egypt; Kush shall hasten her hands to God.
(The context is that the nations of the world are bringing gifts and singing to God.[34])
It has been suggested that the name Chashmonai is related to חשמניםhere.[35] Unfortunately, this is the only time the word חשמנים appears in Tanakh, so its meaning is unclear.[36] The Septuagint translates it as πρέσβεις (=ambassadors).[37] The Talmud seems to imply that it means "gifts."[38] Based on a similar word in Egyptian, the meanings "bronze," "natron" (a mixture used for many purposes including as a dye), and "amethyst" (a quartz of blue or purplish color) can be suggested.[39] Ugaritic and Akkadian have a similar word with the meaning of a color, or colored stone, or a coloring of dyed wool or leather; the color being perhaps red-purple, blue, or green.[40] Based on this, meanings such as red cloth or blue cloth have been suggested.[41] Based on similar words in Arabic, "oil" and "horses and chariots" have been proposed.[42] A connection to another hapax legomenon, אשמנים,[43] has also been suggested. אשמנים perhaps means darkness,[44] in which case חשמנים, if related, may mean dark-skinned people.[45] Finally, it has been suggested thatחשמנים derives from the word שמן (oil), and that it refers to important people, i.e., nobles, because the original meaning is "one who gives off light." (This is akin to "illustrious" in English).[46]
But the simplest interpretation is that it refers to a people by the name חשמנים.[47] An argument in favor of this is that חשמנים seems to be parallel to Kush, another people, in this verse. Also, יאתיו is an active form; it means "will come," and not "will be brought."[48]
Whatever the meaning of the word חשמנים, I would like to raise the possibility that an ancestor of Mattathias lived in
Egypt for a
period and that people began to call him something like Chashmonai upon
his return, based on this verse.
Even though Josephus identifies Chashmonai as the great-grandfather of Mattathias, this was probably just speculation. It is too coincidental that he places Chashmonai as the father of Simon, precisely where there is room for him.
The most reasonable approach, based on the earliest rabbinic sources, is to interpret Chashmonai as another way of referring to Mattathias, either because it was his additional name or for some other reason. A main purpose of I Maccabees was the glorification of Mattathias in order to legitimize the rule of his descendants. This may have led the author of I Maccabees to leave the name out; the author would not have wanted to remind readers of the obscure origin of the dynasty.
Most probably, the name Chashmonai derives from a place that some ancestor of the family hailed from.
A few other points:
º Most probably, the name חשמונאי did not originally include an aleph. The two earliest Mishnah manuscripts, Kaufmann and Parma (De Rossi 138), spell the name חשמוניי.[49] This is also how the name is spelled in the two passages in the Jerusalem Talmud.[50] As is the case with many other names that end with אי (such as שמאי), the aleph is probably a later addition that reflects the spelling practice in Babylonia.[51]
º The plural חשמונאים is not found in the rabbinic literature of the Tannaitic or Amoraic periods,[52] and seems to be a later development.[53] (An alternative plural that also arose is חשמונים; this plural probably arose earlier than the former.[54]) This raises the issue of whether the name was ever used in the plural in the Second Temple period.
The first recorded use of the name in the plural is by Josephus, writing in Greek in the decades after the destruction of the Temple.[55] It is possible that the name was never used as a group name or family name in Temple times and that we have been misled by the use of the plural by Josephus.[56] On the other hand, it is possible that by the time of Josephus the plural had already come into use and Josephus was merely following prevailing usage. In this approach, how early the plural came into use remains a question.
Since there is no evidence that the name was used as a family or group name at the time of Mattathias himself, the common translation in Al ha-Nissim: "the Hasmonean" (see, e.g., the Complete ArtScroll Siddur, p. 115) is misleading. It implies that he was one of a group or family using this name at this time. A better translation would be "Chashmonai," implying that it was a description/additional name of Mattathias alone.
° The last issue that needs to be addressed is the date of Al ha-Nissim.
According to most scholars, the daily Amidah was not instituted until the time of R. Gamliel, and even then the precise text was not fixed.[57] Probably, there was no Amidah at all for most of the Second Temple period.[58] The only Amidot that perhaps came into existence in some form in the late Second Temple period were those for the Sabbath and Biblical festivals.[59] Based on all of the above, it is extremely unlikely that any part of our text of Al ha-Nissim dates to the Hasmonean period.
The concept of an insertion in the Amidah for Chanukkah is found already at Tosefta Berakhot 3:14. See also, in the Jerusalem Talmud, Berakhot 4:1 and 7:4, and in the Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 24a, and perhaps Shabbat 21b.[60] But exactly what was being recited in the Tannaitic and Amoraic periods remains unknown. The version recited today largely parallels what is found in the sources from Geonic Babylonia. The version recited in Palestine in the parallel period was much shorter. See Soferim 20:8 (20:6, ed. Higger).[61] The fact that the Babylonian and Palestinian versions differ so greatly suggests that the main text that we recite today for Al ha-Nissim is not Tannaitic in origin. On the other hand, both versions do include a line that begins biymei Matityah(u), so perhaps this line is a core line and could date as early as the late first century or the second century C.E.[62]
In any event, the prevalent version of Al ha-Nissim today, Matityahu … kohen gadol Chashmonai u-vanav, can easily be understood as utilizing Chashmonai as an additional name for Mattathias. But this may just be coincidence. It is possible that the author knew of both names, did not understand the difference between them, and merely placed them next to one another.[63]
On the other hand, we have seen the reading ve-Chashmonai in both Al ha-Nissim and Tractate Soferim. Perhaps this was the original reading, similar to the reading in many manuscripts of Megillah 11a. Perhaps all of these texts were originally composed with the assumption that Mattathias and Chashmonai were separate individuals. But there is also a strong possibility that these vavs arose later based on a failure to understand that the reference to Chashmonai was also a reference to Mattathias.
Postscript: Anyone who is not satisfied with my explanations for Chashmonai can adopt the explanation intuited by my friend David Gertler when he was a child. His teacher was talking to the class about Mattityahu-Chashmonai and his five sons, without providing any explanation of the name Chashmonai. David reasoned: it must be that he is called חשמני because he had five sons (i.e., חמשי metathesized into חשמי/חשמני)![64]
[1] I would like to thank Rabbi Avrohom Lieberman, Rabbi Ezra Frazer, and Sam Borodach for reviewing the draft.
I will spell the name Chashmonai throughout, as is the modern convention, even though the vav has a shuruk in the Kaufmann manuscript of the Mishnah and Chashmunai may be the original pronunciation
[2] The references to beit dino shel Chashmonai are at Sanhedrin 82a and Avodah Zarah 36b.
The balance of the references are at: Shabbat 21b, Menachot 28b and 64b, Kiddushin 70b, Sotah 49b, Yoma 16a, Rosh ha-Shanah 18b and 24b, Taanit 18b, Megillah 6a, Avodah Zarah 9a, 43a, and 52b, Bava Kamma 82b, and Bava Batra 3b. For passages in classical midrashic literature that include the name Chashmonai, see, e.g., Bereshit Rabbah 99:2, Bereshit Rabbah 97 (ed. Theodor-Albeck, p. 1225), Tanchuma Vayechi 14, Tanchuma Vayechi, ed. Buber, p. 219, Tanchuma Shofetim 7, Pesikta de-Rav Kahana, p. 107 (ed. Mandelbaum), and Pesikta Rabbati 5a and 23a (ed. Ish Shalom). See also Midrash ha-Gadol to Genesis 49:28 (p. 866). The name is also found in the Targum to I Sam. 2:4 and Song of Songs 6:7.
The name is also found in sources such as Al ha-Nissim, the scholion to Megillat Taanit, Tractate Soferim, Seder Olam Zuta, and Midrash Tehillim. These will be discussed further below.
The name is also found in Megillat Antiochus. This work, originally composed in Aramaic, seems to refer to bnei Chashmunai and/or beit Chashmunai. See Menachem Tzvi Kadari, "Megillat Antiochus ha-Aramit," Bar Ilan 1 (1963), p. 100 (verse 61 and notes) and p. 101 (verse 64 and notes). There is also perhaps a reference to the individual. See the added paragraph at p. 101 (bottom). This work is generally viewed as very unreliable. See, e.g., EJ 14:1046-47. Most likely, it was composed in Babylonia in the Geonic period. See Aryeh Kasher, "Ha-Reka ha-Historiy le-Chiburah shel Megillat Antiochus," in Bezalel Bar-Kochva, ed., Ha-Tekufah ha-Selukit be-Eretz Yisrael (1980), pp. 85-102, and Zeev Safrai, "The Scroll of Antiochus and the Scroll of Fasts," in The Literature of the Sages, vol. 2, eds. Shmuel Safrai, Zeev Safrai, Joshua Schwartz, and Peter J. Tomson (2006). A Hebrew translation of Megillat Antiochus was included in sources such as the Siddur Otzar ha-Tefillot and in the Birnbaum Siddur.
[3] Taanit 2:8 (66a) and Megillah 1:3 (70c). In the Piotrkow edition, the passages are at Taanit 2:12 and Megillah 1:4.
[4] This took place in 161 B.C.E. On this event, see I Macc. 7:26-49, II Macc. 15:1-36, and Josephus, Antiquities XII, 402-412.The story is also found at Taanit 18b, where the name of the victor is given more generally as malkhut beit Chashmonai.
[5] Mi-shel and beit are combined and written as one word in the Leiden manuscript. Also, there is a chirik under the nun. See Yaakov Zusman's 2001 edition of the Leiden manuscript, p. 717.
[6] The phrase echad mi-shel Chashmonai is awkward and unusual; it seems fairly obvious that a word such as beit is missing. Vered Noam, in her discussion of the passages in the Jerusalem Talmud about Judah defeating Nicanor, adopts the reading in Taanit and never even mentions the reading in Megillah. See her Megillat Taanit (2003), p. 300.
There are no manuscripts of the passage in Megillah other than the Leiden manuscript. There is another manuscript of the passage in Taanit. It is from the Genizah and probably dates earlier than the Leiden manuscript (copied in 1289). It reads echad mi-shel-beit Chashmonai. See Levi (Louis) Ginzberg, Seridei ha-Yerushalmi (1909), p. 180.
Mi-shel and Chashmonai are combined and written as one word in the Leiden manuscript of the passage in Megillah and there is no vocalization under the nun of Chashmonai here.
[7] I Maccabees was probably composed after the death of John Hyrcanus in 104 B.C.E., or at least when his reign was well-advanced. See I Macc. 16:23-24. II Maccabees is largely an abridgment of the work of someone named Jason of Cyrene. This Jason is otherwise unknown. Many scholars believe that he was a contemporary of Judah. Mattathias is not mentioned in II Macc. The main plot of the Chanukkah story (=the persecution of the Jews by Antiochus IV and the Jewish rededication of the Temple) took place over the years 167-164 B.C.E.
[8] M. Middot 1:6 (benei Chashmonai) and Seder Olam, chap. 30 (malkhut beit Chashmonai).
[9] I, 36. This view is also found in Seder Olam Zuta, chap. 8.
Earlier, at I, 19, he wrote that Antiochus Epiphanes was expelled by 'Ασαμωναίου παίδων ("the sons of" Chashmonai; see the Loeb edition, p. 13, note a. ). This perhaps implies an equation of Chashmonai and Mattathias, But παίδων probably means "descendants of" here.
[10] XII, 265. Jonathan Goldstein in his I Maccabees (Anchor Bible, 1976), p. 19, prefers a different translation of the Greek here. He claims that, in this passage, Josephus identifies Chashmonai with Simon. But Goldstein's translation of this passage is not the one adopted by most scholars.
There are also passages in Antiquities that could imply that Chashmonai is to be identified with Mattathias. See XX, 190, 238, and 249. But παίδων probably has the meaning of "descendants of " (and not "sons of") in these passages, and there is no such identification implied.
The ancient table of contents that prefaces book XII of Antiquities identifies Chashmonai as the father of Mattathias. See Antiquities, XII, pp. 706-07, Loeb edition. (This edition publishes these tables of contents at the end of each book.) But these tables of contents may not have been composed by Josephus but by his assistants. Alternatively, they may have been composed centuries later.
In his autobiographical work Life (paras. 2 and 4), Josephus mentions Chashmonai as his ancestor. But the statements are too vague to determine his identity. This work was composed a few years after Antiquities.
[11] Goldstein suggests (pp. 60-61) that Josephus did not have I Macc. in front of him when writing his Jewish War, even though Goldstein believes that Josephus had read it and was utilizing his recollection of it as a source. Another view is that Josephus drew his sketch of Hasmonean history in his Jewish War mainly from the gentile historian Nicolaus of Damascus.
Most likely, even when writing Antiquities, Josephus did not have II Macc. or the work of Jason of Cyrene. See, e.g., Daniel Schwartz, Sefer Makabim ב (2008), pp. 30 and 58-59, Isaiah M. Gafni, "Josephus and I Maccabees," in Josephus, the Bible, and history, eds. Louis H. Feldman and Gohei Hata (1989), p. 130, n. 39, and Menachem Stern, "Moto shel Chonyo ha-Shelishi," Tziyyon 25 (1960), p. 11.
[12] I am not referring to the Palestinian version as Al ha-Nissim, since it lacks this phrase.
The text of Al ha-Nissim in the Seder R. Amram (ed. Goldschmidt, p. 97) is the same (except that it reads Matityah). See also R. Abraham Ha-Yarchi (12th cent.), Ha-Manhig (ed. Raphael), vol. 2, p. 528, which refers to Matityah kohen gadol ve-Chashmonai u-vanav, and seems to be quoting here from an earlier midrashic source. Finally, see Midrash Tehillim, chap. 30:6 which refers to Chashmonai u-vanav and then to beney Matityahu. The passages clearly imply that these are different groups.
[13] See the midrashim on Chanukkah first published by Adolf Jellinek in the mid-19th century, later republished by Judah David Eisenstein in his Otzar Midrashim (1915). Mattathias and Chashmonai are clearly two separate individuals in the texts which Einsenstein calls Midrash Maaseh Chanukkah and Maaseh Chanukkah, Nusach 'ב. See also Rashi to Deut. 33:11 (referring to twelve sons of Chashmonai).
[14] As I write this, Lieberman-institute.com records four manuscripts that have Chashmonai with the initial vav like the Vilna edition, two manuscripts that have Chashmonai without the initial vav (Goettingen 3, and Oxford Opp. Add. fol. 23), and one manuscript (Munich 95) that does not have the name at all. (Another manuscript does not have the name but it is too fragmentary.) There are three more manuscripts of Megillah 11a, aside from what is presently recorded on Lieberman-institute.com. See Yaakov Zusman, Otzar Kivei ha-Yad ha-Talmudiyyim (2012), vol. 3, p. 211. I have not checked these.
With regard to the passage in Soferim 20:8, there is at least one manuscript that readsחשמונאי (without the initial vav). See Michael Higger, ed., Massekhet Soferim (1937), p. 346, line 35 (text). (It seems that Higger printed the reading of ms.ב in the text here.)
[15] These midrashim are estimated to have been compiled in the 10th century. EJ 11:1511.
[16] The prevalent version is based on the Siddur Rav Saadiah Gaon (p. 255): Matityah ben Yochanan kohen gadol Chashmonai u-vanav. This version too can be read as reflecting the idea that Chashmonai was a separate person.
[17] Middot is a tractate that perhaps reached close to complete form earlier than most of the other tractates. See Abraham Goldberg, "The Mishna- A Study Book of Halakha," in The Literature of the Sages, vol. 1, ed. Shmuel Safrai (1987).
[18] The above is the text in the Kaufmann Mishnah manuscript. Regarding the word beney, this is the reading in both the Kaufmann and Parma (De Rossi 138) manuscripts. Admittedly, other manuscripts of Mishnah Middot 1:6, such as the one included in the Munich manuscript of the Talmud, read ganzu beit Chashmonai. But the Kaufmann and Parma (De Rossi 138) manuscripts are generally viewed as the most reliable ones. Moreover, the beit reading does not fit the context. Since the references to Chashmonai in the Babylonian Talmud are often prefixed by the word beit and are never prefixed by the word beney, we can understand how an erroneous reading of beit could have crept into the Mishnah here.
The Mishnah in Middot is quoted at Yoma 16a and Avodah Zarah 52b. At Yoma 16a, Lieberman-institute.com presently records five manuscripts or early printed editions with beit, and none with bnei. At Avodah Zarah 52b, it records three with beit and one with beney. (The Vilna edition has beit in both places.)
Regarding the spelling חשמוניי in the Mishnah, most likely, this was the original spelling of the name. See the discussion below.
[19] See, e.g., Bereshit Rabbah 99:2: חשמונאי בני ביד נופלת יון מלכות מי ביד, Bereshit Rabbah 97 (ed. Theodor-Albeck, p. 1225): לוי של משבטו היו חשמוניי שבני, Pesikta Rabbati 5a, Tanchuma Vayechi 14, Tanchuma Vayechi, ed. Buber, p. 219, Pesikta de-Rav Kahana, p. 107, and Midrash ha-Gadol to Genesis 49:28. See also the midrash published by Jacob Mann and Isaiah Sonne in The Bible as Read and Preached in the Old Synagogue, vol. 2 (1966), p. עב.
I also must mention the scholion to Megillat Taanit. (I am not talking about Megillat Taanit itself. There are no references to Chashmonai there.) As Vered Noam has shown in her critical edition of Megillat Taanit, the two most important manuscripts to the scholion are the Parma manuscript and the Oxford manuscript.
If we look at the Parma manuscript to the scholion to 25 Kislev, it uses the phrase nikhnesu beney Chashmonai le-har ha-bayit, implying that the author of this passage viewed Chashmonai as Mattathias.
On 14 Sivan, the Oxford manuscript of the scholion tells us that חשמונאי יד וכשגברה, the city of קסרי was conquered. Probably, the author of this passage is referring to the acquisition of Caesarea by Alexander Yannai, and the author is using Chashmonai loosely. Probably the author meant beit Chashmonai or malkhut beit Chashmonai. (One of these may even have been the original text.)
On 15-16 Sivan, the Parma manuscript of the scholion tells us about the military victory of חשמונאי בני over Beit Shean. We know from Josephus (Antiquities XIII, 275-83 and Jewish War I, 64-66) that this was a victory that occurred in the time of John Hyrcanus and that his the sons were the leaders in the battle. But it would be a leap to deduce that the author of this passage believed that John was חשמונאי. Probably, the author was using חשמונאי בני loosely and meant beit Chashmonai or malkhut beit Chashmonai. Not surprisingly, the Oxford manuscript has beit Chashmonai here.
In the balance of the passages in the scholion, if we look only at the Parma and Oxford manuscripts, references to beit Chashmonai or malkhut beit Chashmonai are found at 23 Iyyar, 27 Iyyar, 24 Av, 3 Tishrei, 23 Marchesvan, 3 Kislev, 25 Kislev, and 13 Adar.
[20] This passage is quoted at Avodah Zarah 9a. In the Vilna edition, the passage reads malkhut Chashmonai. The three manuscripts presently recorded at Lieberman-Institute.com all include the beit preceding חשמונאי. The other source recorded there is the Pesaro printed edition of 1515. This source reads חשמוניי מלכות.
[21] One can also make this argument based on the passage in the first chapter of Megillah in the Jerusalem Talmud: משלחשמוניי אחד ויצא. This passage tells a story about Judah (without mentioning him by name). But the parallel passage in the second chapter of Taanit reads: חשמוניי בית משל אחד אליו ויצא. As pointed out earlier, almost certainly this is the original reading. Moreover, if a passage intended to refer to a son of Chashmonai, the reading we would expect would be: חשמוניי מבני אחד ויצא.
[22] Goldstein, p. 19, n. 34, writes that the Byzantine chronicler Georgius Syncellus (c. 800) wrote that Asamόnaios was Mattathias' additional name. Surely, this was just a conjecture by the chronicler or whatever source was before him.
[23] The additional names for the sons were: Makkabaios (Μακκαβαîος), Gaddi (Γαδδι), Thassi (Θασσι), Auaran (Αυαραν) and Apphous (Απφους). These were the names for Judah, John, Simon, Eleazar and Jonathan, respectively. See I Macc. 2:2-4.
[24] See, e.g., Goldstein, pp. 18-19. Goldstein also writes (p. 19):
Our pattern of given name(s) plus surname did not exist among ancient Jews, who bore
only a given name. The names of Mattathias and his sons were extremely common in
Jewish priestly families. Where many persons in a society bear the same name, there
must be some way to distinguish one from another. Often the way is to add to the over-
common given name other names or epithets. These additional appellations may describe
the person or his feats or his ancestry or his place of origin; they may even be taunt-epithets.
The names Mattityah and Mattiyahu do occur in Tanakh, at I Ch. 9:31, 15:18, 15:21, 16:5, 25:3, 25:21, Ezra 10:43, and Nehemiah 8:4. But to say that that these names were common prior to the valorous deeds of Mattathias and his sons is still conjectural. (Admittedly, the names did become common thereafter.)
[25] See, e.g., Daniel R. Schwartz, "The other in 1 and 2 Maccabees," in Tolerance and Intolerance in Early Judaism and Christianity, eds. Graham N. Stanton and Guy G. Stroumsa (1998), p. 30, Gafni, pp. 119 and 131 n. 49, and Goldstein, pp. 7 and 12. See particularly I Macc. 5:62.
As mentioned earlier, I Maccabees was probably composed after the death of John Hyrcanus in 104 BCE, or at least when his reign was well-advanced. See I Macc. 16:23-24.
[26] According to I Macc. 2:1, Mattathias was from the priestly watch of Yehoyariv. Of course, even if he would have been from the watch of Yedayah, the rule of his descendants would have needed legitimization because they were priests and not from the tribe of Judah or the Davidic line.
[27] See, e.g., Goldstein, pp. 5-7 and I Macc. 2:26 and 2:54. Of course, the parallel to Pinchas is not perfect. As a result of his zealousness, Pinchas became a priest; he did not become the high priest.
[28] Goldstein, pp. 17-19. Josephus, writing after the destruction of the Temple and not attempting to legitimize the dynasty, would not have had this concern. (I am hesitant to agree with Goldstein on anything, as his editions of I and II Maccabees are filled with far-reaching speculations. Nevertheless, I am willing to take his suggestion seriously here.)
[29] As mentioned earlier, the identification by Josephus of Chashmonai as the great-grandfather of Mattathias is probably just speculation.
[30] It has been suggested that it was the name of an ancestor. See, e.g., H. St. J. Thackeray, ed., Josephus: Life (Loeb Classical Library, 1926), p. 3, who theorizes that the Hasmoneans were named after "an eponymous hero Hashmon." Julius Wellhausen theorized that, at I Macc. 2:1, the original reading was "son of Hashmon," and not "son of Simon." See Emil Schürer, The History of the Jewish People in the Age of Jesus Christ, revised and edited by Geza Vermes, Fergus Millar, and Matthew Black, vol. 1 (1973), p. 194, n. 14.
[31] See I Macc. 2:70, 9:19, and 13:25.
[32] See, e.g., Isaac Baer, Avodat Yisrael (1868), p. 101, EJ 7:1455, and Chanukah (ArtScroll Mesorah Series, 1981), p. 68.
[33] See, e.g., EJ 7:1455. Another less likely alternative is to link the name with Chushim of the tribe of Benjamin, mentioned at I Ch. 8:11.
[34] The probable implication of the second part of verse 32 is that the people of Kush will hasten to spread their hands in prayer, or hasten to bring gifts with their hands. See Daat Mikra to 68:32.
[35] This is raised as a possibility by many scholars. Some of the rabbinic commentaries that suggest this include R. Abraham Ibn Ezra and Radak. See their commentaries on Ps. 68:32. See also Radak, Sefer ha-Shoreshim,חשמן , and R. Yosef Caro, Beit Yosef, OH 682. The unknown author of Maoz Tzur also seems to adopt this approach (perhaps only because he was trying to rhyme with השמנים).
[36] Some scholars are willing to emend the text. See, for example, the suggested emendations at Encyclopedia Mikrait 3:317, entry חשמנים (such as משמנים = from the oil.) The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon (1906) writes that there is "doubtless" a textual error here.
[37] So too, Origen (third century).
Some Rishonim interpret the termחשמנים here as rulers or people of importance. See, e.g., the commentaries on Psalms 68:32 of Ibn Ezra (סגנים) and Radak. See also Radak, Sefer ha-Shoreshim, חשמן , and R. Yosef Caro, Beit Yosef, OH 682. What motivates this interpretation is the use of the term in connection with Mattathias. But we do not know the meaning of the term in connection with Mattathias.
[39] On the Egyptian word ḥsmn as bronze or natron, and reading one of these into this verse, see William F. Albright, "A Catalogue of Early Hebrew Lyric Poems," Hebrew Union College Annual 23 (1950-51), pp. 33-34. Jeremy Black, "Amethysts," Iraq 63 (2001), pp. 183-186, explains that ḥsmn also has the meaning amethyst in Egyptian. But he does not read this into Ps. 68:32. (He reads it into the Biblical חשמל.)
[40] See, e.g., Black, ibid., and Itamar Singer, "Purple-Dyers in Lazpa," kubaba.univ-paris1.fr/recherche/antiquite/atlanta.pdf.
[41] Ludwig Koehler and Walter Baumgartner, The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (1994), vol. 1, p. 362, interpret "bronze articles or red cloths." Mitchell Dahood, Psalms II:51-100 (Anchor Bible, 1968) interprets "blue cloth."
Based on the Akkadian, George Wolf suggests thatחשמנים refers to nobles and high officials because they wore purple clothing. See his Studies in the Hebrew Bible and Early Rabbinic Judaism (1994), p. 94
[42] For "oil," see Encyclopedia Mikrait 3:317, entry חשמנים (one of the many possible interpretations mentioned there). For "horses and chariots," see Daat Mikra to 68:32 (citing the scholar Arnold Ehrlich and the reference to the coming of horses and chariots at Is. 66:20).
[43] See Is. 59:10 באשמנים (in the ashmanim).
[44] Ernest Klein, A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Language for Readers of English (1987), p. 58, writes that it usually translated as "darkness." Some Rishonim who adopt this interpretation are Menachem ben Saruk (quoted in Rashi) and Ibn Janach. Note also the parallel to Psalms 143:3. On the other hand, the parallel to בצהרים at Is. 59:10 suggests that the meaning of באשמנים is "in the light," as argued by Solomon Mandelkern in his concordance Heikhal ha-Kodesh (1896), p. 158.
[45] See Midrash Tehillim (ed. Buber, p. 320): שחורים אנשים. This is the fourth interpretation suggested there. Buber puts the second, third, and fourth interpretations in parenthesis, as he believes they were not in the original text. The first interpretation is מנות דורונות. The second and third interpretations are farfetched plays on words.
Also, the original reading in the Targum Pseudo-Jonathan translation of חשמנים seems to be אוכמנא or אוכמנאי, meaning "dark people." See David M. Stec, The Targum of Psalms (2004) p. 133. The standard printed editions have a different reading (based on an early printed edition) and imply that חשמנים was the name of a particular Egyptian tribe.
[46] See Mandelkern, p. 433, who cites this view even though he disagrees with it.
[47] A modern scholar who takes this approach is Menachem Tzvi Kadari. See his Millon ha-Ivrit ha-Mikrait (2006). This also seems to be the approach taken in the standard printed edition of the Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, even though this does not seem to be the original reading. See also Rashi to Ps. 68:32, citing Menachem ben Saruk who claims that they are the residents of Chashmonah. See also Radak, Sefer ha-Shoreshim, חשמן (second suggestion) and Mandelkern, p. 433.
Gen. 10:14 mentions כסלחים as one of the sons of Mitzrayim. Interestingly, one of the three early texts of the Septuagint (codex Alexandrinus, fifth cent.) reads Χασμωνιειμ (=Chasmonieim) here. If this were the original reading, this would suggest that there were a people called Hashmanim (or something similar) in second century B.C.E. Egypt. But the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus codices (which are earlier than the Alexandrinus codex) do not have this reading; they have something closer to the Hebrew. Most likely, the reading in the Alexandrinus codex is just a later textual corruption. See John William Wevers, Notes on the Greek Text of Genesis (1993), p. 136.
[48] See similarly Deut. 33:21, Proverbs 1:27, Isaiah 41:5 and 41:25, and Job 3:25, 16:22, 30:14, and 37:22.
[49] The Kaufmann manuscript dates to the tenth or eleventh century. The Parma (De Rossi 138) manuscript dates to the eleventh century. The vocalization in both was inserted later. In the Kaufmann manuscript, there is a patach under the nun and a chirik under the first yod. Also, the vav is dotted with a shuruk. (The Parma manuscript does not have vocalization in tractate Middot; the manuscript is not vocalized throughout.).
The Leiden manuscript of the Jerusalem Talmud includes a chirik under the nun in the passage in Taanit (66a). See Zusman's 2001 edition of the Leiden manuscript, p. 717. There is no vocalization under the nun in the passage in Megillah (70c).
[50] חשמונאי is the spelling in all but one of the manuscripts and early printed editions of Seder Olam. One manuscript spells the name חשמוני. See Chaim Joseph Milikowsky, Seder Olam: A Rabbinic Chronography (1981), p. 440.
Also, חשמוניי is the spelling in the text of Pesikta de-Rav Kahana that was published by Bernard Mandelbaum in his critical edition of this work (p. 107). (But see the notes for the variant readings.) Also, חשמוניי is the spelling in the text of the Theodor-Albeck edition of Bereshit Rabbah, at section 97 (p. 1225). (But see the notes for the variant readings.). See also ibid., p. 1274, note to line 6 (חשמניי).
Also, Lieberman-institute.com cites one manuscript of Menachot 64b with the spelling חשמוניי. This is also the spelling used by R. Eleazar Kallir (early seventh century). See his piyyut for Chanukkah לצלעי נכון איד (to be published by Ophir Münz-Manor).
[51] I would like to thank Prof. Richard Steiner for pointing this out to me.
[52] Jastrow, entry חשמונאי, cites the plural as appearing in some editions of Bava Kama 82b (but not in the Vilna edition.) Lieberman-institute.com presently records five manuscripts of Bava Kama 82b. All have the word in the singular here.
The EJ (7:1454) has an entry "Hasmonean Bet Din." The entry has a Hebrew title as well: חשמונאים של דין בית. The entry cites to Sanhedrin 82a and Avodah Zarah 36b, and refers to "the court of the Hasmoneans." (In the new edition of the EJ, the same entry is republished.) Yet none of the manuscripts presently recorded at Lieberman-institute.com on these two passages have the plural. (Lieberman-institute.com presently records two manuscripts of Sanhedrin 82a and three manuscripts of Avodah Zarah 36b. According to Zusman, Otzar Kivei Ha-Yad Ha-Talmudiyyim, vol. 3, p. 233 and 235, there are three more manuscripts of Sanhedrin 82a extant. I have not checked these.)
Probably, the reason for the use of the plural in the EJ entry is that scholars began to use the plural for this mysterious bet din, despite the two references in Talmud being in the singular. See, e.g., Zacharias Frankel, Darkhei ha-Mishnah (1859), p. 43.
Other erroneous citations to a supposed word חשמונאים are found at Chanukah (ArtScroll Mesorah Series), p. 68, n. 6.
[53] The earliest references to this plural that I am are aware of are at Midrash Tehillim 5:11 (ובניו חשמונאים), and 93:1 (חשמונאים בני). But it is possible that חשמונאים may not be the original reading in either of these passages. The reference at 5:11 is obviously problematic. Also, the line may be a later addition to the work. See Midrash Tehillim, ed. Buber, p. 56, n. 66. (This work also refers to חשמונאי בית and ובניו חשמונאי. See 22:9, 30:6, and 36:6.) The next earliest use of this plural that I am aware of is at Bereshit Rabbati, section Vayechi, p. 253 (ed. Albeck): חשמונאים בני. This work is generally viewed as an adaptation of an earlier (lost) work by R. Moshe ha-Darshan (11th cent.)
[54] חשמונים is found in the piyyut שמנה כל אעדיף by R. Eleazar Kallir (early seventh century) and in the works of several eighth century paytannim as well. Perhaps even earlier are the references in Seder Olam Zuta. See, e.g., the text of this work published by Adolf Neubauer in his Seder ha-Chakhamim ve-Korot ha-Yamim, vol. 2 (1895), pp. 71, 74 and 75. See also the Theodor-Albeck edition of Bereshit Rabbah, section 97, p. 1225, notes to line 2, recording a variant with the reading חשמונים. Also, Yosippon always refers to theחשמונים when referring to the group in the plural. (In the singular, his references are toחשמונאי and חשמוניי.) Also, Lieberman-institute.com cites one manuscript of Megillah 6a (Columbia X 893 T 141) with the reading חשמונים.
[55] See his Jewish War, II, 344, and V, 139, and Antiquities XV,403 (Loeb edition, p. 194, but see n. 1).
[56] It is interesting that a similar development occurred in connection with the name "Maccabee." The name was originally an additional name of Judah only. Centuries later, all of the brothers came to be referred to by the early church fathers as "Maccabees." See Goldstein, pp. 3-4.
[57] See, e.g., Allen Friedman, "The Amida's Biblical and Historical Roots: Some New Perspectives," Tradition 45:3 (2012), pp. 21-34, and the many references there. Friedman writes (pp. 26-27):
The first two points to be noted concerning the Amida's history are that: (1) R. Gamliel
and his colleagues in late first-century CE Yavneh created the institution of the Amida,
its nineteen particular subjects, and the order of those subjects, though not their
fully-fixed text, and (2) this creation was a critical part of the Rabbinic response to the
great theological challenge posed by the Second Temple's destruction and the ensuing
See also Berakhot 28b.
[58] Admittedly, this view disagrees with Megillah 17b which attributes the Shemoneh Esreh of eighteen blessings to an ancient group of 120 elders that included some prophets (probably an equivalent term for the Men of the Great Assembly.) But note that according to Megillah 18a, the eighteen blessings were initially instituted by the 120 elders, but were forgotten and later restored in the time of R. Gamliel and Yavneh. See also Berakhot 33a, which attributes the enactment of תפילות to the Men of the Great Assembly.
[59] See, e.g., the discussion by Joseph Tabory in "Prayers and Berakhot," in The Literature of the Sages, vol. 2, pp. 295-96 and 315-316. Tabory points to disagreements recorded between the House of Hillel and the House of Shammai regarding the number of blessings in the Amidot for Yom Tov and Rosh ha-Shanah when these fall on the Sabbath. See Tosefta Rosh ha-Shanah 2:16 and Tosefta Berakhot 3:13. Disagreements between the House of Hillel and the House of Shammai typically (but not exclusively) date to the last decades of the Temple period. See EJ 4:738. The reference to Choni ha-Katan in the story at Tosefta Rosh ha-Shanah also perhaps supports the antiquity of the disagreement. (This individual is not mentioned elsewhere in Tannaitic or Amoraic literature.)
[60] With regard to Birkat ha-Mazon, the practice of reciting Al ha-Nissim here seems to only have commenced in the Amoraic period. See Shabbat 24a.
[61] The first two words of the Palestinian version, פלאיך וכניסי, are also referred to in שמנה כל אעדיף, a Chanukkah piyyut by R. Eleazar Kallir (early seventh century).
[62] Early authorship of Al ha-Nissim is suggested by the fact that some of its language resembles language in I and II Macc. See particularly I Macc. 1:49, 3:17-20, 4:24, 4:43, 4:55, and II Macc. 1:17 and 10:7. See also perhaps I Macc. 4:59. The original Hebrew version of I Macc. was still in existence at the time of Jerome (4th century). See Goldstein, p. 16.
[63] It has already been pointed out that Josephus, having I Maccabees 2:1 in front of him (=Mattathias was the son of John who was the son of Simon), was faced with a similar problem. The solution of Josephus was to conjecture that Chashmonai was the father of Simon.
[64] I Macc. 2:2-4 states explicitly that Mattathias had five sons: John, Simon, Judah, Eleazar and Jonathan. Another brother, Ιωσηπον (=Joseph), is mentioned at II Macc. 8:22.But it has been suggested that the original reading here was Ιωαννης (=John), or that Joseph was only a half-brother, sharing only a mother.


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Does anyone own or had a chance to demo the 2013 11M North Rebel? Considering this as my next kite. All my tricks are hooked in and I love to boost as high as possible. Would love to know how well this kite stays powered through the turns and how fast turning it is when looping.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

subset: commoncrawl


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CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – Babson College generated a 15-4 run during the final 3:32 to pull away from MIT and capture a 63-51 victory in a NEWMAC women's basketball game on Wednesday night. Sophomore Sabrina Drammis (Hilton Head Island, S.C.) tallied a game-high 17 points and added nine rebounds for the Engineers whose ledger lowered to 6-8 on the year and 3-6 in conference play. Freshman Giovanna Pickering (Hull, Mass.) paced the Beavers (6-7, 6-3 NEWMAC) with 16 points as she went 8-of-10 from the free-throw line and snagged four steals.
The early stages were a back-and-forth affair as there were four lead changes and a tie. A layup by freshman Jennifer Narlee (Medfield, Mass.) gave Babson a lead it would not relinquish and sparked a 14-6 run that resulted in a 26-19 advantage with 5:53 left in the half. Following almost three minutes of scoreless play, MIT junior Michelle Battipaglia (Katonah, N.Y.) ended the stalemate with a quick jumper but junior Erin Young (Westwood, Mass.) replied with a three-pointer to give the Beavers some breathing room. With just over a minute left, sophomore Maya Ramachandran (Fremont, Calif.) sank a layup to narrow the Engineers' gap to 29-23 heading into the intermission.
MIT opened the second stanza with an 8-2 spurt to even the score at 31 after 2:34 expired. Babson, however, responded with 12 straight points to surge ahead, 43-31, at the 13:36 mark. Sophomore Kristen Ferola (Amherst, Mass.) produced five points as Narlee tacked on four of her own. Over the course of the next eight minutes, the Cardinal and Gray outscored the Beavers, 16-5, to come within one (48-47) with 5:04 left to play. Drammis registered eight points, including the first three baskets of the run. After an exchange of possessions, a steal by Narlee set up a three-pointer by junior Lindsey Roche (Arlington, Mass.) that sparked the game-ending rally.
Ramachandran posted 10 points, seven rebounds, and three blocks while junior Mari Kordell (Ijamsville, Md.) recorded eight points and three assists. Battipaglia rounded out the squad with six boards, three blocks, and two steals.
Ferola finished with 14 points while Roche notched 13 points with eight coming during the Beavers' late run. Narlee contributed 10 points and nine rebounds as sophomore Linnett Graber (Roseland, N.J.) totaled nine boards, seven points, and three assists.
Both squads continue NEWMAC play on Saturday, Jan. 18 as MIT will visit WPI while Babson will host Clark University.


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Category : Floor Plan.
Topic : Acreage homes floor plans. Author : Diaz Firtha.
Posted : Tue, Dec 11th 2018 16:07 PM.
Format : jpg/jpeg.
Colonial floor plans introduce symmetry, with doors that are centered along with a sensible array of windows. The second story is very similar to the main floor in terms of size. They have brick-facing exteriors or clapboard siding, typically. The contemporary colonial house will have modern facilities.


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Cole Lecture Given by Stanford Prof. Snyder• October 4, 2013 Share:
Wabash College Biology Department will present the Cole Biology Lecture Series given by Michael Snyder. Snyder will give his talk on "Personalized Medicine: What you can learn from your genome" at 8 p.m., Monday, October 7 in room 104 in Hays Science Hall.
Snyder is the Stanford Ascherman Professor and Chair of Genetics and the Director of the Center of Genomics and Personalized Medicine. Snyder received his PhD training at the California Institute of Technology and carried out postdoctoral training at Stanford University. He is a leader in the field of functional genomics and proteomics, and one of the major participants of the ENCODE project. His laboratory study was the first to perform a large-scale functional genomics project in any organism, and has launched many technologies in genomics and proteomics. He is a cofounder of several biotechnology companies, including Protometrix (now part of Life Technologies), Affomix (now part of Illumina), Excelix, and Personalis, and he presently serves on the board of a number of companies.
In addition to his Monday evening lecture, Snyder will give a noon talk on Tuesday, October 8, on "Personal Omics Profiling: Integrative analyses and information understanding healthy and disease states." The talk will take place in Hays Hall, room 319. An open reception will also take place on Tuesday from 2 to 3:30 in Hays Hall, room 106.
Both talks are free and open to the public.


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With just three players left to trim on the Bears final roster and a good chance one or two will be on offense, the Bears defense is set to open the season almost exactly the way we expected it to on our first day in Bourbonnais.
The Bears return eight of their 12 2012 starters on defense with the only changes being Corey Wootton over Israel Indonije at left end, Jonathan Bostic for Brian Urlacher at middle linebacker, James Anderson for Nick Roach at strong side linebacker and Isaiah Frey for Kelvin Hayden at nickel back.
None of the new starters are improvements over 2012 but when you consider the Bears were one of the top five defenses in the league last year they don't have to be better, they just need to be as good.
Assuming Henry Melton makes a full recovery from the concussion that cost him the second half of the preseason the Bears should be marginally better at tackle. While both Melton and Stephen Paea were the starters last year, both are youngsters who should still be ascending and able to take another step forward this year and Nate Collins is extremely solid as the number three.
End is a bit more of a concern. Julius Peppers was limited in training camp but appears able to still perform at an All Pro level. Wootton will actually share playing time with Shea McClellin and early in camp it appeared Wootton could be the breakout player of the year. Then he suffered a few nagging injuries as he has been want to do throughout his career, and McClellin has shown little sign of progress.
Indonije was actually the team's leading tackler on the defensive line and second leading pass rusher with Wootton and McClellin also getting significant playing time so it's unclear how that production will be replaced.
It looks as if Cornelius Washington will be the fourth end but that is based strictly on athletic ability and as a prospect, he does not appear ready to make any significant contributions yet.
Lance Briggs looked great in training camp and preseason and could be set for another All Pro season. He won't be as good as Urlacher was calling the signals but he shouldn't be a problem either. And James Anderson will be at least close to an even trade for Roach if not all the way there.
Concerns at linebacker focus on Jonathan Bostic and D.J. Williams in the middle. Bostic is a rookie with great upside and no experience and Williams is a dependable veteran with great athleticism who missed the entire preseason and at 31, we are uncertain if all his athletic ability is still there.
When Bostic lines up against the Bengals on opening day it will be the first time a quality NFL offense has schemed to attack him and the first real indication we'll have of just how ready he is or isn't. It's a huge question mark going into the season.
Williams at least offers excellent depth which the Bears do not have at either of the outside linebacker spots where rookie Khaseem Greene, who is even more raw than Bostic appears to be the next man up.
The secondary will be better than last year as Chris Conte and Major Wright appear a ton more confident in their second season together at safety and Peanut Tillman and Tim Jennings are both still at the top of their games.
Like Bostic at the "mike," Frey is a wild card at nickel back and he may not really be tested until week five vs. the Saints as Cincinnati, Minnesota, Pittsburgh and Detroit are all thin when it comes to second and third receiving options. Tillman will again be charged with taking away number one.
If Zack Bowman's hamstring allows him to he'll provide a nice security blanket.
This "D" could be great again, but Peppers, Briggs and Tillman cannot afford to act their ages and Wootton, McClellin, Bostic and Frey all have to make significant contributions.
• Hub Arkush covers the Bears for Shaw Media and HubArkush.com. Write to him at email@example.com.


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TORONTO — You want improv? The Harold Green Jewish Theatre Company is about to give you improv royalty.
Colin Mochrie, one of Canada's leading improv comedians, will star in a fundraiser for the theatre on May 28 at the George Weston Recital Hall in the Toronto Centre for the Arts.
The one-night-only show is titled Whose (Jewish) Line Is It Anyway? and will feature Mochrie doing what he does best, riffing with and off of his fellow improvisers – his co-stars for this show are Toronto Second City alums Matt Baram and Naomi Snieckus – and making the audience howl… with laughter, that is.
In a phone interview with The CJN last week, the veteran of the hit TV improvisational comedy show, Whose Line Is It Anyways? – which ran on ABC from 1998 to 2007 and will soon run again – said he's honoured to be helping raise money for the theatre.
"As you know, I'm the face of Jewish theatre," he quipped, when asked why he got involved with this show.
Seriously though, Mochrie said he and his wife, comedian Deb McGrath, have previously hosted Jewish galas for other causes.
"I have this innate Jewishness in me that seems to resonate" with audiences, he jokingly said. "We're big theatre fans. And we've seen great things [at the Harold Green Theatre]. And we truly believe there's a need for it to keep going. Anything we can do to help, we're there."
So, does he prepare for a "Jewish" Whose Line differently than for other improvisational shows?
"That's a very good question. I don't know. I assume the improv will be colooured by the suggestions we'll get. We're not quite sure what we're doing yet," he said, chortling. "This is the beauty of our work. I love the fact that we have a show, and we don't actually have a show."
David Eisner, Harold Green Theatre's co-artistic director and a friend of Mochrie's, said his organization is "thrilled and honoured" to count the Whose Line star as part of its company.
"Colin has always been a tremendous friend to our company over the years. His heart is as wonderful as his comedy," Eisner said.
Mochrie recently returned from taping new episodes of Whose Line in Los Angeles for the CW Network, which will begin airing them on July 16. His partners in comedic crime for much of the first run of the show, Wayne Brady and Ryan Stiles, also returned for the reboot.
A rotating cast of improvisers will fill in the fourth slot for the troupe on TV this summer.
Asked whether his style has changed in the intervening years between Whose Line's end in 2007 and the new version, Mochrie said "kind of.
"I was a little nervous about trying to recapture something that was so of-the-time. But once [Stiles, Brady and he] started working together again, it felt like we'd been doing this constantly," he said.
Mochrie noted that the three comedians are friends off-screen as well, and although they don't communicate as often as they'd like, all of them have been working constantly in improv since they last worked as an ensemble.
So the comedic chops and interplay are still there, he said.
Has he been influenced by Jewish comedians?
"Growing up, a lot of people who inspired me comedically were Jewish," Mochrie said. "I was a big Jack Benny fan. I loved the way he used silences. I loved Jerry Lewis, because he was off-the-wall. Woody Allen… the list goes on. And in music as well. I love the Jewish 'thing' of just grabbing onto life and enjoying it. It's something the more uptight of us could take to heart."
For more information or to order tickets, call 416-932-9995, ext. 224, or visit www.hgjewishtheatre.com.


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(If you are a mere mortal and no JavaScript god, you might be more interested in looking at the bottom part of this post and at the MSDN or DevEdge documentation.)
JavaScriptKit.com JavaScript Reference: Comprehensive listing of JavaScript objects, properties, and methods. Also includes explanations and examples.
The ECMAScript Standard:
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- ECMA-262 - ECMAScript Language Specification
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(Netscape implemetation, see DevEdge JavaScript Central)
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JScript: (Only use MSDN for IE proprietary stuff.)
(Microsoft implementation, see MSDN/Scripting/JScript)
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Host objects:
Standard host objects, DOM0 & Netscape 4 proprietary host objects:
Mozilla Gecko host objects:
- Gecko DOM Reference
- Client Object Cross-References
- Mozilla DOM Samples:List of samples
- Mozilla/SeaMonkey Class Hierarchy: /dom
- Mozilla/SeaMonkey Class Hierarchy: /htmlparser
JScript host objects:
- HTML and DHTML Reference
- HTML and DHTML Overview and Tutorials
- About the W3C Document Object Model (W3C DOM in Internet Explorer)
- MSXML4.0 SDK (XML in IE)
- Interfaces and Scripting Objects
- Measuring Element Dimension and Location
- Internet Client SDK
- Windows Scripting Zone References
Opera host objects:
kjs & khtml host objects:
Implementations and host objects:
(MacroMedia flash implementation and host objects)
- Flash MX ActionScript Dictionary
- Flash MX ActionScript Reference Guide
- Using ActionScript Overview
- ScreamWeaverMX ActionScript Reference
(iCab implementation and host objects)


text:
Follow RFF News on your cell phone. Text follow rff to 40404 you will receive txt messages with RFF News
0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
Is anyone else having trouble reading some posts?Or am I just losing it.
Puddin Thank you for the link to change. I like the new look, but I wasn't able to read any text in the messages.I had to use the quote button to reply to see the post. I am sure its probably just Safari, but I can at least no see, and then decide if I want to try another bowser.
now how long did it take you to find that?
Quote from: Kogs on November 08, 2006, 03:43:56 PMnow how long did it take you to find that? I actually met him when they played at the resort I worked at.SOOOOOO what are we looking for besides Bowsers? i'm interested in that shot of the Cho's and what appears to be in the dark? maybe the mines before the roadblock? Yielded? Also I've been thinking about the clue where one team jumps ahead of a " kind natured" team. After reading that TV Guide blurb on The Cho's being the nicest guys in the world... I think they are the only team that fits the " kind natured" description? Probably the BQ's taking advantage of the Cho's?"Being Polite Sucks Sometimes" As the intensity of the race picks up, one team's kind nature is put to the test when another team jumps in front of them in the taxi line
Ok, I'm rambling.
Oh I agree with you Sups,peach & Slowhatch!! I just dis-remembered this Watch this clip, Lyn is fed up with Karlyn bowing to the Cho's ideas all the time and not hers.( in realone)Lyn and Karlyn Bicker over Directions
I seriously had to go to CBS and see which Lyn is which. It's Karlyn that was bitchin to Lyn. So far Lyn has been the nice one. Karlyn is the smaller, loud-mouthed bitchy one. Sometimes I'd just like to slap her down.
Early on we had fingered the African American female team as the one getting Philiminated in Finland. But then we had the sighting of them, the models, and the dating couple all together in Paris and on the flight to New York. So if the latter holds up, then either the Chos or the Beauty Queens are marked for elimination.Wouldn't it be a hoot if we are all dead wrong and the three teams sighted together in Paris and on the flight to New York were well placed decoys?
Another forum is passing around the idea that we could have a final 2 instead of a final 3. Guess the next elimination is the only sure way of knowing.
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Mechanical and Electrical Construction Management
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The principles of project management are applied to case studies of electrical construction projects. Topics include estimating, trade coordination, labor productivity, labor relations, scheduling, management of subcontractors and general contractors, document control and administration, contract law, and subcontractor's risk.
Credit Hours:
West Lafayette


text:
do you think "photo bombing" is funny?
do you think "photo bombing" is funny?
posted by Morgan Bell , on , No Comments
do you think "photo bombing" is funny?
Answer here
Bell's short story "It Had To Be Done" was first published in the Newcastle Writers Group Anthology 2012, and her short story "Midnight Daisy" was published by YWCA Newcastle in 2013 as part of the She: True Stories project, with live readings on ABC 1233 in February 2014 and Newcastle Writers Festival in April 2014. In March 2014 Bell's short story "Don't Pay The Ferryman", an anti-travel piece, was shortlisted for the Hunter Writer's Centre Travel Writing Prize 2014. Bell's short story "The Switch", based on Germanic folklore, is featured in Novascapes, the 2014 Hunter Speculative Fiction Anthology, alongside award-winning authors such as Margo Lanagan and Kirstyn McDermott.
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Thursday, October 13, 2011
Two Motifs Down
Two motifs down... many more to go
It's incredible how easily the rhythm of the pattern is coming back to me.
You can see that I haven't woven in any ends yet... BIG SURPRISE!
6 comments:
wow, that's so beautiful!!
- October 14, 2011 at 1:27 PM
- wink said...
Yep, just as I suspected - stunning! :)
- October 17, 2011 at 1:12 PM
- Milkshake Baby said...
Would you be willing to share this pattern? It is amazing!
- October 19, 2011 at 10:42 AM
- laughing purple goldfish said...
milkshake baby...
certainly - it's a free online pattern, here's the link http://www.artoftangle.com/lacy_flower_runner.htm
- October 19, 2011 at 3:35 PM
- Milkshake Baby said...
Thank you! I'm so excited I've found your blog! Am enjoying the patterns and fun projects you do!
- October 20, 2011 at 7:48 AM
- xl pharmacy said...
One of the reasons why I like visiting your blog so much is because it has become a daily reference I can use in order to learn new nice stuff. It's like a curiosities box that surprises you over and over again.
- December 6, 2011 at 5:20 AM
Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)


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Brand Label: Puiforcat
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text:
8:30 pm
Robert Plant & The Band of Joy: Live from the Artists Den A rare snowy day in Nashville, Tennessee, set the stage for an even rarer event - an intimate concert by rock icon Robert Plant at the War Memorial Auditorium. Performing with his new, Grammy-nominated group - aptly titled the Band of Joy - Plant played both Led Zeppelin classics and new songs that continue to have an impact on the music scene today. Recorded February 9, 2011. D
9:30 pm
Nature "Hummingbirds: Magic in the Air" The tiny hummingbird qualifies as one of the toughest and most energetic creatures on the planet. Recent breakthroughs in the study of the bird's biology are combined with high-definition, high-speed footage of hummingbirds in the wild and high-tech presentations of their remarkable abilities.G
10:30 pm
Wild! "Africa's Secret Seven" The behavior of Africa's most secretive animals are examined. The serval, aardvark, pangolin, genet, african wildcat, civet and porcupine furtively go about their top-secret activities. We witness how each one cunningly outwits the super-predators in its own special way, with extra-sharp senses and other strategies for survival.G
11:30 pm
Sky Island The volcanic Jemez Mountains of New Mexico rise more than a mile above the surrounding high desert, like an island in the sky. Environmental filmmaker John Grabowska profiles the landscape and humankind's place within it, where the effects of climate change are already transforming the desert and alpine ecosystems. Author and poet N. Scott Momaday and actress Meryl Streep narrate the stunning images of this formation, which encompasses the Bandelier National Monument and the Valles Caldera.G


text:
My Quote of the Day
Rick Olson is a veteran of the United States Marine Corps, and a graduate of Southern New Hampshire University with a BA in Social Science. Rick subsequently attended Massachusetts School of Law in Andover MA and is an avid hunter and shooter. Frequently, Rick can be found on the Grok taking up second amendment, hunting, fishing, trapping and wildlife conservation issues. Rick Olson is also a former Police Officer and Deputy Sheriff.
Rick is the Past President of the New Hampshire Wildlife Federation, and the current President of the Londonderry Fish & Game Club. A nationally certified firearms instructor, Hunter Education and Bowhunter Education instructor, for New Hampshire Fish & Game, Rick works tirelessly in advocacy for outdoor sporting men and women across the Granite State. Rick is a former commissioner on the Manchester Conservation Commission and resides in Manchester. He has three children and four Grandchildren.


text: This is a Science Fiction Movie I am making. It is not quite Wing Commander, BUT is totally inspired by it! I grew up on Wing Commander I, II, III, IV and Prophecy - best years of my life! The website is here And the Youtube videos are here: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 is coming soon! I work on it as we speak! Hope you like it.


text:
|2011-06-06, 05:23
|Link #641
Join Date: Nov 2007
Right, they have a budget, and they want to get people to buy their anime, but last I checked Air/Kanon/Clannad Animes were among the best selling Anime of their respective years. They didn't have to water down the plot and add in more action sequences, but they chose to. I think Maeda was interesting in making AB the way it was. I didn't like it though, and even if they made it 24 episodes long and had a 4 episode arc on Yuri, I don't even know that that would have saved it for me. As long as they had those plot twists, and those episodes dedicated entirely to action, that show would have been a tough sale for me as coming anything close to Air/Kanon/Clannad animes.
|2011-06-06, 07:01
|Link #642
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Age: 28
And the first was essentially a big character introduction.
|2011-06-06, 09:27
|Link #643
Join Date: Nov 2007
I'm not much of a FSN fan, I tried it before so I know it's premise. I watched the OP on youtube just now and I don't think it screams out Shonen as much as the 2nd OP does. But what is Shonen is very subjective, ultimately it's just my opinion that the 2nd OP looks like Shonen, based on works in the past I've seen, so don't let it screw with ya too much. My main point is that if you were to imagine a VN based on the 2nd OP, most people would think of something drastically different than Key's main titles so far. Whether it's Shonen or not, even if we got something similar to the "Seinen" FSN in Rewrite I would still venture to bet a lot of Key fans would be upset. The 2nd OP has nothing in common with the style of story-telling that I enjoyed so much from Key's main works. This is just my opinion. What I like isn't even the same thing as what you like. I'm trying to defend what I like and make sure what I like doesn't get turned into something I don't like. Forget about authors and past companies and outside works, I've come to expect something certain from Key and that 2nd OP is very very far off from that expectation. I feel like I'm regurgitating things from a few posts back now, I'm only interested in talking about the 2nd OP in any responses....
|2011-06-06, 11:31
|Link #644
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Ceral, you're not alone, I saw plenty of people on 4chan's /jp/ worry that Key had lost their special touch just from the second OP.
I think you're right that the 2nd OP wants to appeal to the "we love awesome fights" crowd. Isn't that desirable for Key / Visual Art's? Because they knew that they would have a lot of fights in the second half of Rewrite, they asked White Fox to make them an OP that would boost their sales, and this is what they received. Isn't that what happened? White Fox could have instead tried to sell Rewrite as an epic dark fantasy like Berserk, and plenty of people would have been fooled. But in my personal opinion, the "WSJ fighter" sort of atmosphere should widen the sales more. I would rather ask, with the info that Rewrite's second half has action, how could they possibly not try to market it the way they did?
But if you say that it doesn't seem "original" because of energy swords and dinosaur-like monster hordes, I can't really counter that. The thing about cliches is that people often mistakenly think that great things possess uncliched elements that set them apart. However, upon inspection, there are really so many things that are basically 100% composed of cliches, and it's thoughtful and clever execution that set those things apart. Key is the crowning example of that, they write school life comedy with a "harem" cast, moe characters, and sentimental drama. Before Moon/Kanon actually came out and were played, you couldn't have convinced anyone that Key is unique. Actually, I still can't convince some of my friends that Key is more than just "moeblobs", so screw them! In any case, is it possible Key/Romeo will fail and that energy swords will really just be energy swords? Yes.
On a final note, I can understand comparing Rewrite to AB in order to articulate what you don't want Rewrite's action to be like (I'm 100% in agreement on that) but like other/s here have said, it's not being created in anywhere near the same way.
|2011-06-06, 13:17
|Link #645
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
But who cares? People like that are living with their heads in the ground. As previously iterated, Key has been changing up their formula for years now, and if you don't like it, you are free to leave. Rewrite will have shonen elements. And it will be done in a fashion unique to Key's method of presentation. You calling it "not-Key" is silly. And yes, that 2nd OP is definitely representative of the kind of style they are trying to capture, and we are excited because we look forward to see Key's interpretation on it. Whether you approve of it or not. But that doesn't make it any less Key.
Actually, to think that you've come to somehow "Expect" something from Key that they haven't actually delivered for a while now is actually condescending an extent. It would have made more sense if you complained around the time of Tomoyo After or LB, but now after all this time it's actually reflects more of your selfishness than anything else.
Does that mean it will be bad? No! Does that mean it's not "Key!" No! Does it mean it'll not be like what they used to be? Probably, we'll see when the game is out.
|2011-06-06, 13:28
|Link #646
Join Date: Nov 2007
Thanks Myopius, for addressing all my main points. I guess I need to check out 4chan more often.
Well if they do have a second half full of action, I agree, that's something that they would have to market. Indeed I think they would get more sales by marketing it in such a manner, but if the game turns out to not satisfy the part of their fanbase that's in it for the comedy, romance, peaceful but emotional storyline and not for the action, I think it would hurt them in the long run. Some people might think that the 2nd OP is close to what should be expected from Key, but I think it's a complete 180, and if I'm not satisfied by what I read in the 2nd half, I'm gonna try to yell at Key in whatever Gaijin way I possibly can.
You make a fine counterpoint in a very civil way. Thank you. Indeed every title that's been mentioned has had a lot of cliches. They also do things that I haven't seen before, while still executing the scenes that contain "cliches" in an enjoyable manner. But because of the genres I like at the current time, I would find it hard to appreciate a work with all the action I see in the 2nd OP. Whether it's dark or adult enough to capture most peoples imagination is an argument for another day, and one that I'm gonna keep myself out of. My complaint is that I just don't expect the focus to be on action in a main VN by Key, the climax has always been about the characters and the sentimental drama. How this climax has been achieved in the past has only involved a small amount of action, nowhere near the amount the 2nd OP suggests. I'm not saying something can't be good without some action in it, titles these days seem to have a little bit of everything in them, but there's always a dominant genre to label something by. Air had some action but by no means would you label it as action. The 2nd OP is pretty much writing on the wall that there's gonna be some changes to what genre this VN could be considered as. I'd be relieved if there was so little action that this label wouldn't stick to the title, maybe it's really good anyway, until then we're just wasting time until we can play the game eh.
|2011-06-06, 13:44
|Link #647
Join Date: Nov 2007
Huh? Are you sure about that? Do you work for Key? What were they trying to represent in their first OP then? That doesn't have any action in it. How about the demo, have you even played the demo? They've kept a lot of what they've had in their main titles. They obviously still have a good game on their hands that uses most of the formulas that they have been using. The 2nd OP is very different though, to say that anything with the Key label has suggested they were going to make something based on that 2nd OP is just plain ignorant.
I am selfish, but that's neither here or there. I didn't complain about Angel Beats, at the time it aired, (Believe it or not) because I treated it as Maedas pet project. They've created some expectations with rewrite, it is one of their flagship bishoujo games, not just a spinoff; They've had an OP and a Demo that had some supernatural themes, stronger than usual, but it was still like their other bishoujo games at their core. You act like LB was so much different than any of their other works, I'm happy if they change the theme of the story, they've done that with every game anyway, is that what you're trying to say? Now if they go away from advancing the story through 95% character dialogue to telling their story through fighting beasts and vampires and I have no idea what else nor do I want to know until I actually play the game for half the game, that's cause to start yelling at Key. The 2nd OP is just like a bad omen.
Last edited by Ceral; 2011-06-06 at 14:22. Reason: Added more to keep from posting too much
|2011-06-06, 14:06
|Link #648
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 29
It's still a nakige but it's certainly not the same type of game that Kanon and Clannad were.
Furthermore, why are you whining about action? It having action doesn't make it 'shounen' (which is a meaningless buzzword anyway), and there's no indication that just because there will be more action scenes, it won't be a nakige.
The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive... have you seen the SIZE of that script?
Basically, what we're trying to say is that you're complaining about a game that isn't even out yet for reasons that don't make sense to anyone.
Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-06-06 at 14:12. Reason: please do start calling out people.
|2011-06-06, 14:11
|Link #649
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv168
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 32
Likewise, you never stated the authors were doing mainstream, but you were afraid that Key would do that kind of stuff using fantasy elements, despite these two authors are hardly anything close to that (especially Romeo).
Now, you stated yourself the OP is shonen. Granted, then what is the deal -for now-? That is again judging the book from its cover. I wouldn't really argue that much if it was the only OP, but we got the first OP being the main one, as well as a trial being quite "normal" so to speak. That much doesn't assure it won't turn into a shonen galore. However, the second OP doesn't confirm anything either, except the fact that "action packed content is present", without its predominent ratio or context.
This is again the whole issue I was addressing in this discussion: you are jumping on some conclusion that is relatively hasty. Granted, if it is actually the case, then that's it. However, if it isn't the case, then it was basically barking at the wrong tree.
Honestly, just "wait & see", because for now, it is just moot.
Of course, they do not have heavy actions at all, but the execution and themes were arguably different from their main flagship titles.
Little Busters, despite being a flagship series, is by a huge margin different from the other series, although its core is what Maeda usually writes. Really, the cast and the events in LB are definitely much broader and having a "blast" than the other 3. That's the whole thing to say: there isn't really a solid "Key" formula to put it blunty, and ignoring any VN which aren't Kanon/Air/Clannad is basically focusing only one a part of the company writers, not the full scope of it.
Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-06-06 at 14:28.
|2011-06-06, 14:30
|Link #650
Join Date: Nov 2007
I agree with what you guys have to say. Guys, I'm not complaining about the game, just the 2nd OP. I'm trying to justify that I don't like the 2nd OP by saying it's very different from what I would expect from Key. I am saying that it is very different, but don't take that too literally, Maybe this will get my point across : Horsing around with your friends, a story about family, battling mysterious villains on the moon, which one of these three things should be singled out?
Last edited by Ceral; 2011-06-06 at 14:43.
|2011-06-06, 17:00
|Link #651
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Here's the 4chan thread with a multitude of reactions to the 2nd OP: easymodo link
Ceral: Yeah, just 18 days left.
Kagari fan art I haven't seen posted elsewhere in this thread: konachan link
|2011-06-07, 13:39
|Link #654
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
The point is: none of that is Key, until you see what Key has done with the concept. That is what makes them unique. Not the ideas, but how they implement those ideas. If Key thinks they can make a "shounen" type story with their style of storytelling, I'm willing to let them try. After playing it, and it turns out to really be the generic action type of story, then I'll be right behind you in denouncing Rewrite and Key as hacks who sold out to the mainstream.
|2011-06-18, 13:58
|Link #655
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location:
Please don't flame me, I'm just curious.
Is the translation project still going on?
or are you guys waiting for the full game to be released?
|2011-06-18, 20:50
|Link #658
Team Spice and Wolf UK
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England
Age: 31
Wonder if we'll get an anime out of this?
I enjoyed Clannad and loved Kanon, so I'd certainly be up for it, even if the second animated trailer does seem a bit more 'shonen-esque', but then I like fantasy; so if they make another decent series; then I'd definately be willing to give it a shot based on the strength of some of its characteristics even if they're not all to my taste.
|2011-06-18, 21:45
|Link #660
Team Spice and Wolf UK
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England
Age: 31
Good news; Key are one of the few companies I've seen who produce what seem to be decent standalone animes from visual novels, which stand well in thier own regards, a lot of VN translations feel like a lot was lost in translation/adaptation.
|bishoujo, hinoue itaru, key, maeda jun, romeo tanaka, ryukishi07, visual novel
|Thread Tools


text:
I tried to rename the dictionary but it did not work.
Here is what I did and the responses.
cd /usr/share/bibleanalyzer/modules/dictionary
Then I tried the rename without sudo and with sudo, but the response was the same.
/sur/share/biblanalyzer/modules/dictionary$ mv s-strongEX.dct StrongEX.dct
/sur/share/biblanalyzer/modules/dictionary$ sudo mv s-strongEX.dct StrongEX.dct
both commands got the response
mv: cannot stat 's-strongEX.dct': No such file or directory
I could go on to some other issues in BA, but I would like to resolve this one first.
Under Tools, Display Primary Modules, I looked in the dictionary folder and there is an s-strongEX.dct


text:
Wednesday, February 22, 2012
The problem with e-books
I have had my e-reader for a month or more now, so maybe I am more qualified now ^_^
To be honest I am not posting on what an ideal e-reader might be. Nook Vs Kindle or anything. This post is about the e-books themselves, not so much the e-reader.
There are some really good things about e-books. You can get them instantly (when you are allowed to buy them) any time.
You can put a library on an e-book and have more choice than if you had a case full of books with you. Awsome for flight weight limits.
But there sure are big drawbacks that need to be ironed out as well.
Firstly with e-books, the copyrightable material is separated from the physical book, like you could float the story off the pages of an ordinary book and put them on some other blank pages in another book. And not just once but as many times as you choose. Like magic a Disney movie.
So what does that mean? Well firstly it costs a publisher hardly anything at all to print an e-book and...
Secondly they will never loose money because they print too many and have to pulp them.
Thirdly they don't have any materials or shipping costs.
So take, as an example, Jane Fallon's "Got you back". Amazon's RRP for the paperback is £7.99. Their discount price is £5.29 with no shipping fee.
Amazon's e-book for the Kindle is £5.99
Or Penguin's site £7.99 for the paper back £5.99 for the e-book
I don't think you can get the e-book in Canada right now. The paperback is listed at $22.95 discount price $16.57
So there are two things wrong there right away.
One they want to charge you practically the same price for the actual physical book as they do for the e-book.
Now the physical book they had to get the paper and ink and glue for, that they had to print and guess how many copies they could sell. Books they had to bind and pack and ship all over to stores.
And an e-book, that I figure must have cost so little to print and ship that you may as well call it nominal.
Now I am not dumb. I know they have to pay the author and the agents and the editors. The electronic typesetter and the artist and the advertising, secretaries and their offices in Sydney, London or Manhatten or Boyse Idaho. The servers the site runs on and whoever processes the payments.
But that same set of costs applies to the actual physical paperbacks and hardbacks also.
So where do Amazon get off actually charging more to download an e-book than to send me the actual physical book?
Would you be willing to pay the same for a physical CD as you would for the same music on your mp3 player. I really don't think so.
It's not like I don't think they deserve a reasonable profit, but really.
And now to my second point. Right now you could order the physical book and get it delivered most anywhere in the world, or probably get your local book store (who the e-books make me worry for) to order it in.
But you try to get the e-book, you will probably get some message that they can't sell it in your region.
That is totally crazy why can't you buy it? Why can't you buy a book in the US that you can in the UK or vice versa? Something to do with copyright I guess.
Why they can't have a world copyright deal for e-books I do not know. Because not being able to get a hold of a copy of something you know is out there is a strong inducement to piracy for a generally law abiding person who would be happy to pay for it.
Not that they are wanting something for nothing, but that they don't see why they should not be allowed to read what someone else can. That goes against everything an avid reader believes.
Another problem is all the proprietary e-book formats that try to lock you into one particular e-reader. Did you know that if you buy an e-book for one reader it is really difficult to transfer it to another if you upgrade to a different make… unless you buy all your books from an independent supplier in the more–or-less universal e-pub format.
Adobe look like they have cornered the 'independent' proprietary copyrighted material market. You have to download their software to put those bnooks on your e-reader. OK so it is free at the moment, I bet the publishers have to pay big time for it tho, so you do pay for it in the price somewhere. To give them credit they can put it on most any e-reader.
Come on e-publishers. There would be much less reason for piracy if you had a universal world release instead of only letting some of the people buy your books and you didn't rip us off on price.
All of us who like to read know Authors and publishers need to make some money or they just wouldn't keep writing the stuff we like to read, we don't mind paying £1.00 or $1.50 per book, even probably twice that, or maybe a bit more still when it is only out in hardback.
I would love to hear what someone in the "Industry" had to say about all this. Bet I don't.
6 comments:
- Steve Hayes said...
That's one reason I'll never buy an e-reader.
Another is that I don't think it would be wise to use it in the bath.
Do they have cheap book sales for remaindered e-books? Didn't think so.
- February 23, 2012 at 11:02 PM
- James Higham said...
You can put a library on an e-book and have more choice than if you had a case full of books with you. Awsome for flight weight limits.
Ah, I wondered what the e-book was for.
- February 24, 2012 at 6:21 AM
- Moggsy said...
Steve. No remaindered e-books, but there is lots of free content. Out of copyright ones and some publishers give free "tasters" so you can see if you like an author.
James you can put a library of e-books on an e-reader. The e book is for reading, the e-reader is what you use to display the e-book.
Think of the e-reader say the Kindle or Nook being like an iTouch and the e-books like the MP3s.
- February 24, 2012 at 8:16 AM
- jmb said...
Interesting post Miss Moggs and instead of putting my thought here in the comment section I am writing a post which will follow soon.
- February 24, 2012 at 11:15 AM
- Monique Trottier said...
Technically, I'm not in the industry anymore, but I like to follow what's happening.
Here's the thing with book pricing, lets say the author gets a 15% royalty (the percentage varies but lets go with 15%). That means for every $5 book, they get $0.75. Anywhere from 40-60% goes to the site selling the book, and the rest to the publisher to cover all the costs of creating the book, and often the publisher doesn't breakeven.
When it's self-published, the author retains the publisher portion, but they've also self-financed the cost of editing, production, distribution and marketing.
Thinking about ebooks only as digital versions of a book isn't the way to think about it. These are two separate products. I know it's easy to compare them that way but if I was a published author or self-published author, I'd want the price of my book to reflect the value of its contents, not the medium it's delivered in. And, I'd want to charge enough so that I could continue making more good books that people want to read.
The issue of ebooks being available in different territories but not Canada, for example, has to do with how rights to books are sold. It doesn't make sense in the digital world we live in, but good publishers are trying to smooth out these issues that in the grand scheme of things are still relatively new challenges.
Anyway, I hear and understand your frustration.
- March 19, 2012 at 3:03 PM
- Moggsy said...
Monique, Thanks for a really good comment.
I get that people need to be rewarded for making a book or we might end up killing the goose.
I do see that a new book might command a higher price than one that has been out for a while.
I just think that the seller's are taking a bigger cut of an e-book than is comparable to a published actual book and ditto for the publisher.
An e-book seller really only needs one copy, so they don't need a warehouse or anything like that. They do have costs but they are much smaller.
The cost of distribution is contributed to by the buyer and is much less. The Publisher does not have to pay for materials or storage or transport or have thr risk of producing too many or too few in a run.
The buyer has to take a hit and is making a commitment buying the e-reader.
I figure both the publisher and the book seller both must be saving quite a bit and yet the price does not seem to reflect those savings. It seems like they could pass some of that saving on to the customer.
It is a sort or relationship a reader has with an author. I think most book lovers want to support the industry and support their favourite authors just not get ripped off and it feels a bit like being ripped off.
I also wonder if cheaper e-books might mean more e-sales and more actual income?
I figured it was something like licencing stopping e-books being sold evenly to every territory. I really think this is something they need to get a handle on very quickly and in my opinion is a greater inducement to piracy than anything else.
Supporting the industry is one thing, but having it seem to keep you from reading something you know others can read and that you are prepared to pay good money for?
That makes a person think ok. You want to be like that… and try to find a way round it.
- March 20, 2012 at 1:26 AM