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August 1, 2008
Remy Catapults The Propaganda
Last night, the NESN duo spoke at length about the Manny Ramirez situation. They spent the better part of the third inning giving us a completely one-sided view of matters. Both men came off very badly, but Remy's comments were especially odious. After assuring us that he was not engaging in Manny-bashing, Remy launched straight into pure Manny-bashing propaganda.
Back on June 22, 2003, L and I listened to Mets reliever Armando Benitez walk four Yankees in the 11th inning and blow the game. John Sterling and Michael Kay, the Yankee radio announcers, ripped Benitez for yet another crappy outing. They were just about laughing at how useless he was. But in a strange twist, about three weeks later, Benitez became a member of the Yankees. Suddenly, Sterling and Kay were talking up the gas can as if he was the reincarnation of Walter Johnson. He was a great pitcher who had simply run into some bad luck. Under orders to talk up the latest Yankee, they dutifully complied.
Last night, Jerry Remy and Don Orsillo were also dutifully playing the part of company men, presenting opinion as fact while admitting at one point that they had no idea if what they were saying was true. They seemed at times to be reading from a script handed down from the front office, in an effort to put a cap on the Manny saga. Or maybe they felt this is what they should say, or maybe they finally felt free to let their prejudices run wild.
They listed Manny's transgressions against his teammates, the Red Sox franchise, even the great game of baseball, while presenting the Red Sox organization as not only blameless, but selfless too, having done so much over the years to make Manny happy. And while laying the blame for this whole mess at Ramirez's feet, they somehow "forgot" to mention John Henry's email to the Herald calling Manny's mid-July comments "obscene" [Note: Henry actually called Manny's comments "personally offensive"; my error] which greatly escalated the matter, and Theo Epstein's uncharacteristic statement to Joe Buck and Tim McCarver that he was trying to trade Manny and that the Fox duo was more than happy to share that information with their national audience.
Added: At one point Orsillo asked Remy if Manny possessed "any respect" for the game. The same man who happily blabs about the idiotic Sox Appeal and speculates at length about what the couples on screen are thinking -- while the game is in progress -- this man is asking about respecting the game. And the guy he's posing the question to is often selling his autographed scorecards and other merchandise during games. Trying to make extra buck while on the job? Is that respecting the game, Jerry?
Remy: Getting back to the Manny situation, which we have to, obviously -- it was impossible for this relationship to continue, in my opinion, and we saw what happened over the last couple of weeks, the way the club responded, and when it trickles down to the players -- that's when you have a real problem. You can have a problem with the manager, you can have a problem with the front office, but when it trickles down to where players lose respect for you, then something has to be done.
When he sat down those two games against Seattle and of course the New York Yankees, that first game against Joba Chamberlain, a lot of that respect was lost by even a lot of his good friends in the clubhouse. And you can imagine -- the last thing I think the Red Sox wanted to do is have to make this deal. I really do. I think they would hope that he'd be able to finish here this year, put up great numbers, and I'm sure there was much discussion -- well, if we keep the guy, is he gonna give us 100% the rest of the year and is he gonna make a contract push. You can never be guaranteed that with Manny. There's nobody in that room that could say Yeah, that's definitely gonna happen. You can't say that because at any point, as we've seen in the past, it could turn around, he could go the other way and go home.
So they had no other option to do but what they did. They gave up a lot, there's no question about that. They gave up a lot to get rid of one guy. But they got a better player than I thought they were going to get - in Jason Bay. I really do.
Orsillo: You could have ended up with nothing, virtually, but it was clear that the need to get rid of him and get him out of town was #1 on the docket.
Remy: The two things that bothered me the most about what Manny did over the last couple of weeks was first of all sitting out on his teammates in those two games. That bothered me. The other thing that bothered me is when he started to put that spin on the front office -- like everybody's against me. I'm going to tell you something. And I've always been a fan of Manny's. But this organization, since he's been here, has bent over backwards, in many, many ways, to make it as comfortable, to put up with a lot of stuff that they didn't need to put up with, so he would just go out and hit and perform and help this team win. Which he did. They won two world championships with him.
But to say those types of things about the organization, I thought, was unfair of Manny because they put up with an awful lot with him and I thought they made every effort that they possibly could to make him as comfortable and as happy as they possibly could to play here in Boston. So those two things irked me the last couple of weeks.
Orsillo: I know there's no question over the last couple of weeks that his teammates have reacted much differently to this situation than in the past.
Remy: You're exactly right. And over the last few days, Francona had been calling in veteran players to get their feel, I think, on how they would feel if he would leave or if they would want him to stay, that's just my -- I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but you can only guess when you see veterans going into, prior to a trade deadline, into his office. So I think they were getting input from everybody and I really honestly think the players feel we're better off without this aggravation, because first of all, he sits down on them, then after that, they have to answer questions on stuff that he's saying. They don't want to deal with that.
Orsillo: I think there's very little doubt that he was coming back here next year, and that they were going to pick up his option at that point either.
Remy: No. So you're weighing -- is this guy the type of guy who is, he's so angry that for two months he's gonna play like crazy for a new contract -- you can't be guaranteed that with Manny. And I think that was the major issue that finally -- you got to move him, he's got to go now. And -- the Manny era is over. And I gotta tell you, for me personally, I liked him. In our job, he was entertaining to watch.
Orsillo: Very!
Remy: He annoyed me when he didn't run out balls [laughs], when he became lazy and didn't do things. But to watch him hit every day was certainly a pleasure. And also, you never knew what to expect from the guy.
Orsillo: I wanted to ask you about that because I know how much you respect the game and respected the game as a player. There are those who say that Manny has zero respect for the game. Your thoughts on that -- and did he have respect for the game that we did perhaps not see?
Remy: Yeah, I think he has respect for the game. But he didn't show it on the field all the time. When you -- a good example was the other night. That's just one example of not running a ball out, in the no-hitter. There have been many of those over the years. But sometimes you put up with that stuff because he could hit the bomb for you, he could drive in -- he put up great numbers. And there was a lot of things they tolerated that they would not have tolerated with anybody with less ability or with a guy that you never knew from day to day, if you get on the guy, suspend him, do you lose him?
Orsillo: Right.
Remy: All of a sudden, does his knee hurt and does he go home? So, you know, it's like a large cloud that's been removed from this whole organization, I think, and I really think in the clubhouse today, it had to be a much better feeling going in there knowing you don't have to deal with this. Now I'm not gonna Manny-bash. I'm not going to do it, because I totally enjoyed my time in this job watching him doing his job when he did it the right way. But the time was now. It was enough.
Orsillo: No question.
Remy: The last two weeks was disgusting and I tell you, Don, it surprised me, because coming into spring training, he had, in my opinion, the best attitude I've ever seen him have for three months of this season and --
Orsillo: It switched in a hurry.
Remy: What switched, I have no clue. But it went bad, and it went bad quickly.
Orsillo: Perhaps he thought that maybe before the break, they would take care of him or it would be dealt with at some point early in the season, maybe that's when it didn't happen and all of a sudden --
Remy: Well, those are the things we don't know. Those are the things we don't know. But what we do know is what's happened here over the last couple of weeks, you couldn't go on that way. And you couldn't flip the coin and say maybe he's gonna do well after this. You just couldn't say that because you don't know.
Orsillo: The Red Sox did give up a lot, we've lost Brandon Moss, we've lost Craig Hansen. And Jerry, I thought heading into the trade deadline, the real need they had perhaps was going to be in the bullpen and they ended up kind of losing a guy from the bullpen that had been out there on a regular basis, good or bad.
Remy: Well, a guy that has been very inconsistent, yes, and I'm sure they tried -- Theo Epstein as a matter of fact said today that they were trying to do something out in the bullpen but the fact is the right deal was not out there. And this Manny thing was so consuming.
Orsillo: All-consuming.
Remy: I mean all-consuming, and many members of the organization, I'm sure, had to have input on this, do we take the chance, do we not take the chance. [Francona on screen] I'm telling you right now, this guy is the happiest guy in the world.
Orsillo: Most relieved man in the world.
Remy: He really is -- because at times he made life miserable for him, totally miserable, and right now he's in a much better place than he was two days ago. There's no question about that. Now, will the end result be better? We'll see. Time's gonna tell.
Orsillo: I guess that's the real big question. Are the Red Sox better today than they were yesterday?
Remy: They may not be today, but maybe they will be a week from now, or two weeks. We'll see. ... I mean I like the guy, I really do. He was entertaining as heck, he's a great ballplayer -- a great hitter, I should say -- and I will miss him. But I didn't have to manage him or be his teammate.
Orsillo: No. You might not have liked him as much. ...
Remy: One thing he did do is he provided us with reels and reels of entertainment in his tenure here with the Red Sox. There's no question about that. Positive and negative.
Orsillo: Seven and half seasons in a Red Sox uniform and none of them were boring.
Remy: Not a day was boring.
Orsillo: It will be interesting to watch on the other side, how he and Joe Torre get along in Los Angeles and how that all takes place. I mean, Manny has always been a guy who needs to be comfortable. We heard it all in the first, what, three years, here in Boston that he had to be comfortable after being in Cleveland. Well, how comfortable is he going to be in Los Angeles the last two months of the year? ... Not our problem ... [end of half inning]
[Then, with one out in the bottom of the third]
Heidi Watney: "I spoke with a lot of guys in the clubhouse today and they all agree it was time for the team to move on and for Manny Ramirez to go. Team captain Jason Varitek said you'll never be able to replace Manny, but now the team can move forward as a team.
Varitek (on video): Well, I mean, some of us have been a part of this for about eight years now and, uh, surprised? Yeah, because he's, he brings an offense that, you know, you can't replace with anybody or expect somebody to replace it, but you know the cards were kind of left in his hands a little bit, where he, he, he made it, you know, to a point where, uh, they had to -- to get rid of him.
Watney: Now Jason told me that Terry Francona stressed the importance of moving forward as a team in the meeting this afternoon and Terry Francona told me he was just excited to address the team and excited to put all of this behind them.
Orsillo: Okay, thank you very much, Heidi. .... Jerry, I want to ask you how distracting it is from a team standpoint I guess it would come from the reporters and writers asking everybody else, you have to answer for Manny, since Manny's not going to talk to the media, for the most part, during those situations and it seems that's how the players were affected because they're always having to answer for Manny in that situation.
Remy: Well, in this last situation, Manny was doing the talking and then they had to get responses from the players -- and the players get tired of it. You got your own job that you have to do and worry about up there, the manager obviously has to take care of the whole club, but individually you've got a job to do and you don't want to be answering questions that have no relevance to you at all. You can't get into the head of what somebody else is thinking, and why he's saying things ... I told you, Don, last week, that I spoke with him briefly in the clubhouse and he was dead set, he's said these things before, but I left with the feeling that he definitely wanted out of this place and he gave them no other option but to get him out of here. And it's done. It's over. And as you say, you move forward and you see what happens.
88 comments:
Just be glad you weren't listening to Dale Arnold.
- August 2, 2008 at 12:23 AM
- L-girl said...
Just be glad you weren't listening to Dale Arnold.
That's hardly the point.
The Red Sox own NESN and were using Remy and Orsillo as mouthpieces for their POV. Viewers are a captive audience, and we were subjected to a completely one-sided story.
We didn't tune in to hear more Manny bashing. We wanted to watch baseball.
Remy & Orsillo easily could have said, we've all heard enough about this, there's nothing more to say, we wish Manny well, we welcome Jason Bay, let's play baseball.
Instead they used their positions to subject us to propaganda.
Remy says Manny has no respect for the game? Remy should have a little more respect for his job.
* * * *
[I think the broadcast team selling Benitez that night was Sterling and Steiner; I'm pretty sure Kay had moved over to YES by then.]
- August 2, 2008 at 5:01 AM
- James said...
The Red Sox own NESN - what can you expect?
Not that I don't agree with a lot of what they had to say, but Remy is like Sergei Eisenstein; he's pretty damn good at what he does, but he's got an opinion he needs to push, and he's going to push it.
I was at the game, so I didn't get to hear this. I assume the fourth inning mostly consisted of him selling some trinkets from his website?
- August 2, 2008 at 5:03 AM
- L-girl said...
Calling Manny lazy, "entertaining" (what ballplayer of Manny's caliber is labeled "entertaining"??), the "some people say" about having "zero respect for the game" - this was all completely gratuitous.
Coming from a man who disgusted us all with his self-promotion (t-shirts, website, it never ended) and his ongoing cutesy jokes about his little Wally doll, it was beyond hypocritical.
Remy spent whole seasons forgetting that he isn't the reason we're tuning it, he's not the show. But Manny Ramirez, who helped us win two World Series, is disrespecting the game??
Remy and Orsillo debased themselves with this clown show.
Someone should send them last night's game thread so they can see how well it was received.
- August 2, 2008 at 5:08 AM
- L-girl said...
The Red Sox own NESN - what can you expect?
Respect for viewers, by recognizing that fans have heard enough already, and now just want baseball.
Respect for Manny. The man is already off the team! There is nothing else to be gained by continuing to bad-mouth him.
- August 2, 2008 at 5:57 AM
- s1c said...
Just some quick hits before I go to bed (just got in from work) so it will be interesting to see how the comments flow by noon (my usual wake up time).
First - I am still looking for obscene in the Henry E-mail, From ESPN
I find remarks that we have been anything other than completely straightforward to be personally offensive," Henry said in an e-mail, according to the Herald. "Manny has been a crucial part of two world championships. I do not believe we would have won either without him. He has never played a more important role than he has thus far this year."
2nd - Actually Remy said that Manny did have respect for the game, he just didn't always show it. As for the lazy part, I know there were numerous times that Remy talked about how hard Manny worked at his hitting. I'm sorry, but I really don't see what he said as bashing.
Should he have expressed his opinion during the game? Probably not. Would I have expressed an opinion during the game if I was the color analyst? Probably not, but then again I might have.
3rd - You cannot really be upset about the use of the word entertaining? Manny on or off the field was always entertaining, whether it was a head rub of Tavarez, those stupid shakes he used to do with O-cab in '04, the cut off of the throw from Damon, the "I'm a bad man quote" last year. That was pure gold. It was funny, it was ENTERTAINING.
I hate to sound snippy, or snide but give me a break (leg is preferred over the arm).
4th - I doubt very seriously that NESN sent out the word to trash Manny to the booth.
Off to bed, try to keep the flame from being to big guys.
- August 2, 2008 at 5:59 AM
- L-girl said...
No flame, I just disagree, which you already knew.
- August 2, 2008 at 6:48 AM
- L-girl said...
Actually Remy said that Manny did have respect for the game, he just didn't always show it.
Don didn't need to even bring up the subject. He opened the subject to remind viewers that Manny disrespects the game.
I know there were numerous times that Remy talked about how hard Manny worked at his hitting.
Not last night he didn't. He only emphasized his laziness by not running out ground balls.
You cannot really be upset about the use of the word entertaining?
Not if it was surrounded by the full measure of the player. But yes, if the announcer is making it sound as if that was Manny's greatest value. It most certainly was not.
I doubt very seriously that NESN sent out the word to trash Manny to the booth.
Then you might be a bit naive about how media works.
- August 2, 2008 at 6:52 AM
- ish said...
Not quite sure how I felt about the content of their discussion, but for the average fan and for the broadcast of the first game after this major trade, I think it was a discussion that needed to be done, during the game, to put some closure on the debacle, debrief it, and then move on.
If they start talking about Manny tonight, however, I'll be pissed.
- August 2, 2008 at 6:53 AM
- ish said...
So now, it appears Manny, when he learned he was really going to be traded to Los Angeles, actually wanted to stay!
Of all the Manny moments in Boston, the last ranks as one of the most confounding. Within an hour after Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein informed Manny Ramírez he had been traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers Thursday, Ramírez's agent, Scott Boras, called the Sox back, according to a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations. If the Sox dropped the option years on his contract - which they had agreed to do if they traded him - Boras said Ramírez would not be a problem the rest of the season.
For the Sox, the source said, Ramírez's pledge of good behavior only served as a tacit admission that his disruptive conduct of the last couple of weeks had been calculated, and they had had good cause to suspect more was in the offing if they did not trade him. The Sox told him thanks but no thanks, what was done was done, and pack plenty of sunscreen.
That leads to an assumption that before he was traded, he filled out paperwork approving a trade anywhere, which couldn't be undone. He must've already waived his 10-5 rights or else, if he wanted to stay, he could have vetoed the trade.
- August 2, 2008 at 6:57 AM
- redsock said...
First - I am still looking for obscene in the Henry E-mail
Looks I remembered it wrong. "Personally offensive" and not "obscene". My mistake.
Still, an organization who prides itself on keeping things in-house clearly changed those rules in the last few weeks.
4th - I doubt very seriously that NESN sent out the word to trash Manny to the booth.
Perhaps not directly. Who knows? But Don and Jerry are not dumb; they know what the party line is. As do the newspaper people.
And this was so far above and beyond anything they have discussed about the situation since it began, I found it more than odd. We don't get NESN every night, but I do not recall them making much of a peep about the whole thing -- mentioning it in passing, yes, but not a long discussion of what has been going back and forth -- and now that Manny is out of town, the flood gates open.
And the POV is from one side only -- NOT a look back at everything that led to this point. That's where they blew it. It was presented as a wrap-up, but it presented Manny as 100% to blame and the front office as a super-kind group of people who did every darn thing in their power to make Manny happy and still he didn't care.
Here's a project:
Has there be any media person -- any article -- that has examined this matter from all sides and doled out at least some blame to the front office?
- August 2, 2008 at 7:00 AM
- Jack Marshall said...
With the exception of his obviously disingenuous comment that Remy wouldn't engage in Manny-bashing even as he was doing it, I found Remy's comments appropriate and probably toned down from what he wanted to say.
Only in the emotionally-charged pro-Manny enclave that is Joy of Sox could someone write with a straight face that calling the man "entertaining" is an insult. What else, other than "entertaining,' can you call the high-fiving of the fan mid-play? The silly cut of of Damon's throw? The antics in the wall? The signs? "Entertaining" is the best possible spin you can put on the legitimate "MBM" moments. For years, a word commonly used, even by other baseball players, to describe Manny's on-field persona is "clown." Remy probably would use a different word. He was the antithesis of Manny as a player, without any of Manny's physical gifts, he had to work his damndest to play good defense, not strike out, hit behind the runner, do all the "little things that don't show up in the box score," run the bases, and abide by the team's rules. He never spoke out much; I doubt that he ever ran through a stop sign at third---and if he did, he was probably fined for it. I'm sure he never joked after messing up a play. Remy probably wanted to say that Manny's act was "nauseating," because I'm certain that to him, an old school player of no star value who had to play the game "right" or not at all, it was. His commentary wasn't NESN---it was Remy. And like most broadcasters, he has access to the players and sees a lot of stuff we don't,some of which he can't talk about directly. When he says that the players on the team were fed up with Manny, that's a credible statement. I believe it---I think most of baseball believes it. People on this thread don't believe it because they don't want to believe it. OK, be deluded--or be a loyal Manny fan beyond all logic---it's your right, and it's traditional, I guess; "Say it ain't so, Joe!"
I watched the LA game last night---on his infield hit and the last double play, Manny ran about twice as hard as I've seen him run for about two months. What does that tell you? Torre has told Manny to cut his hair---the Red Sox didn't dare raise an issue like that with Manny. So Remy says that the he was annoyed by Manny saying that the Sox "didn't deserve him," when they had obviously---obviously!---bent over backwards not to confront him and to keep him happy, even at the cost of giving him special privileges and tolerating insubordination. I'm sure REmy was annoyed at that. He should have been. JOS should have been. There has been more criticism aimed here at Jerry Remy over this sorry episode than on the man who caused it, and was apparently willing to sink his team's play-off chances out of pure spite and childishness.
I'm not going to debate the "Manny was run out of town" conspiracy buffs---it's futile, and the other side clearly is in the grip of "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts" out of loyalty, love, or mass-hypnosis. But Remy had to comment on the Ramirez situation last night, and called it as he saw it, with restraint. It's fine to disagree with him, though I can't see how. But the venom last night and this morning are completely unfair.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:04 AM
- redsock said...
Making Orsillo and Remy blab about the idiotic Sox Appeal, showing us couples chatting and having them speculate about what they are saying and thinking -- WHILE THE GAME IS GOING ON -- that is not respecting the game. Or the fans.
Why don't they do that shit during a half-inning as an actual commercial?
Trying to cram an extra commercial into the break to make more $$$$ and have fans miss pitches -- more respect of the game.
NESN really screwed up once when the first pitch was hit for a home run -- they joined the action as the batter was jogging to second base.
And Remy selling scorecards during the game -- way to show respect, you selfish shill.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:07 AM
- truth said...
As soon as Remy said he wasn't going to do "Manny-bashing" I started yelling "And here comes the Manny bashing" at the TV, because I knew what would follow.
Everybody focused on Manny saying last week that the Red Sox don't deserve a player like him, but to me what he said in the middle of that statement was really true: Look how the team treated Nomar and Pedro, trying to turn the fans against them as they left. (For the record, I was against getting rid of Nomar, and that was the right move; and I was in favor of letting Pedro go, and that was the right move, too.)
There is no reason to smear your superstars on their way out the door, no reason to tarnish our memories of their greatness.
I refuse to think less of Manny Ramirez the player just because the FO has the "media" (I use that term very loosely when referring to Remy) spouting the company line.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:09 AM
- redsock said...
and the other side clearly is in the grip of "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts"
That road is a two-way street, Mr. Marshall.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:10 AM
- L-girl said...
Only in the emotionally-charged pro-Manny enclave that is Joy of Sox could someone write with a straight face that calling the man "entertaining" is an insult.
See my comments above. Out of context, sure, entertaining is not an insult. In the context of Remy's spiel, it was. He said it as if the only way to describe Manny's play - as if the best thing that could be said about it - is that it is entertaining.
Since many people on last night's game thread were similarly disgusted, I doubt it was "only in the emotionally-charged pro-Manny enclave that is Joy of Sox" that viewers felt this way.
However, if it was only on Joy Of Sox, that makes the reaction no less valid. Popularity is not a measure of validity.
the other side clearly is in the grip of "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts" out of loyalty, love, or mass-hypnosis.
Jack, this is unnecessary and highly insulting.
People who disagree with you are not under a spell. We are not disregarding facts. We have our own minds, we assess a situation, and we come to a different conclusion.
Are you not aware that two people can look at the identical situation and reach different conclusions?
Or do you delude yourself into thinking that anyone who disagrees with you is simply blind, unenlightened, or stupid?
How dare you. How fucking dare you.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:12 AM
- L-girl said...
Allan, your comment re Sox Appeal, ads and other disrespect of the game is worth adding to your post.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:13 AM
- L-girl said...
As soon as Remy said he wasn't going to do "Manny-bashing" I started yelling "And here comes the Manny bashing" at the TV, because I knew what would follow.
It's a guarantee. When you hear, "I'm not a racist, but...", I'll bet you next month's rent that a racist comment is coming.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:16 AM
Having watched the Manny saga from afar (i.e. no NESN, WEEI, or Boston.com), I can honestly say that I have no problem with Remy's comments.
Manny's back-and-forth, "trade me"-"don't trade me" attitude got on my nerves a long time ago. These past few weeks capped it all for me, from that intentionally goofy play that turned a single into a triple (followed by laughing about it!), to the cell phone in the monster. Manny's antics were cute when they were confined to unintentional dropped flies, but he took it to a whole new level lately.
Not running out ground balls and fly outs, screwing around in the outfield - all of this shows, to me, that Manny was taking advantage of his $20 mil and decided that he could do whatever he wanted. Add the cell phone incident to that, which shows a blatant disrespect for the game, and I can't really see any way to defend what Manny has done recently.
Saying that the "Red Sox don't deserve me" was the last straw...
- August 2, 2008 at 7:19 AM
- L-girl said...
And the POV is from one side only -- NOT a look back at everything that led to this point. That's where they blew it. It was presented as a wrap-up, but it presented Manny as 100% to blame and the front office as a super-kind group of people who did every darn thing in their power to make Manny happy and still he didn't care.
That's what makes it propaganda, and that's where the anger comes from. (That and the fact that he's already gone.)
That's also why it smells of "marching orders" from above.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:20 AM
- redsock said...
Remy: You're exactly right. And over the last few days, Francona had been calling in veteran players to get their feel, I think, on how they would feel if he would leave or if they would want him to stay, that's just my -- I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but you can only guess when you see veterans going into, prior to a trade deadline, into his office. So I think they were getting input from everybody ...
Yes, the other Sox were likely sick of the sideshow -- the entire sideshow -- but Remy here says something, notes that he's only making a guess, then restates it as if it was a fact.
Orsillo: There are those who say that Manny has zero respect for the game. Your thoughts on that -- and did he have respect for the game that we did perhaps not see?
There is no call for that at all.
Anyone else remember during the Nomar shit when he came out of the shower and saw the media around and made some off-hand comments about how bad it was here? The media all said he was referring to Boston and the team and clearly wanted out of town. What Nomar was actually talking about was the media themselves, how THEY make playing in Boston an often horrible experience.
- August 2, 2008 at 7:23 AM
- 9casey said...
L , thanks for the firefox tip..
- August 2, 2008 at 7:55 AM
- 9casey said...
How about Manny asking to come back to Boston after he was already traded?
Saying he would behave, in turn admitting he was being disruptive...saw that on Boston.com
- August 2, 2008 at 7:56 AM
- YardSox said...
I love Manny - greatest hitter I ever saw, an impact player if there ever was one, and someone who brought a lot of joy to watching the Red Sox, in terms of pure baseball ability, an understanding that he worked hard to be the great hitter he was, and the enthusiasm he brought to the whole game of baseball. A game - something to entertain. And he entertained on many levels. I do not thing that to be an insult.
That all said, I can't find fault with what Remy said. There was no way Remy and Orsillo could not discuss this. Nor was this the forum to provide an in depth analysis that examined every incident in detail. This was the opinion of the color commentator, facilitated by a play-by-play line of questioning that might not have been comprehensive, but which hit some of the hot buttons. To say Remy acted on marching orders from Sox management is unfair. It seems ok to trash Remy on his speculation that Francona spoke with his players for their input, yet it's ok to assume that Remy acted on Sox management's orders. Please. I'll cut him the benfit of the doubt here. I think Remy has been more than fair through the years with Manny and has many times expressed his admiration as a fan. Both Remy and Orsillo have repeatedly pointed out how hard Manny works at hitting - all the time in the cage, first in the clubhouse, etc. They never adopted the lazy media approach that Manny was some sort of hitting idiot-savant.
One thing in particular I thought nailed it. I truly believe his teammates were tired of the situation and did not want to be badgered by the media. This no doubt would have continued. Should they be above such distraction? Hardly fair. Should the media be allowed to do this? Well, freedom of the press and all, but I would not bemoan one minute the end of media reporting. The game is enough - I could care less about all the background stories and color and inuendo and garbage. I have, for the most part, stopped reading the Boston media for example. I do read this blog - and another excellent Sox site (Lyford's lyflines). But, very few of traditional baseball media have any real clue, so they are worthless.
I said in the first thread on the trade that the fucking media drove him out of town. Well, that's partly true. As much as I love Manny, he is not without culpability here. Nor is the front office. But, to me, the biggest culprit is the media. If they were not in all of his teammates faces beating this to death, spreading distortion and outright lies (CHB..!!), maybe this trade doesn't happen.
I love the team first, however, and despite how unhappy I am that Manny is gone, I do hope Bay does well. I was glad to see his success yesterday (but I could not help think that his triple would have been in the garage across the street if Manny had swung the bat at that pitch....).
Last, I did watch the Dodger game last night. And, yes, Manny did run a hell of a lot harder down the line on the groundballs. Disappointing. But this was not something I got worked up over on the Sox. And it is not soemthing only Manny was prone to - too many players don't hustle down the line, but, one wonders how fabulous an idea it is on a routine groundball. The risk of injury may very well outweigh the return on the few hits a year they might produce. Certainly, not a cardinal sin in the church of respecting baseball - at least in my mind. And not the reason to get rid of one of the greatest hitters in the history of the game - though I guess it was primal cause from the media and sheep point of view.
- August 2, 2008 at 8:07 AM
- ShoreysStories said...
I love reading your insights and we do often disagree on some of the Manny issues.
One thing I would like to comment on is Theo's comments to Buck. What's with that? Did it reach a place that Theo couldn't talk to Manny himself about if he wanted to be traded? If it did I agree that can't be all Manny. I mean how hard can be to find Manny to talk to. I'm sure Theo would comment on an the agent, but still. You can't blame Manny for causing team issues and then go to Buck to make a national announcement.
Is this the new way that teams will be attempting to make deals? The next day the Braves made a similar announcement about their first baseman. Do we like this? I don't think so. But it it worked for both teams so it is likely ot happen again.
My other thought is during the pregame show there were some fan interviews and I was moved with great pain for the youngster that said Manny was his favorite player and they bought tickets in advance to see him. If Jim Rice had been traded like this when I was kid I would have been crushed.
- August 2, 2008 at 8:40 AM
- nixon33 said...
i love the old "old im not going to (insert whatever negative action here)..." and then going on to do that said action without blinking an eye. it's like a false justification.
anyway, remy strikes me as one of those dummy hard heads that ALWAYS has an opinion for any subject that is over his head. im sure he was very close to the situation being around the clubhouse, talking to the players, being a former player, etc. but this thing is WAY over his head, self admittedly.
to go even further, he's a cut throat moron being a filter from the FO to the millions of viewers MAKING SURE they know that it "was all mannys fault".
my favorite thing was when they came back from commercial break (in maybe the fourth?) i thoughts they had moved on and he goes right back into it with a "... but anyway getting back to the manny situation, it was really time to move on. I mean enough is enough." or something to that effect. he could wait to keep talking about how it was time to move on. i remember a couple of us posted YES ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. i had already been sick of remys shit, but watching last night was kind of embarrassing.
and some of the fans who just woke up yesterday because they discovered it was TRENDY to be a sox fan since they won 2 WS and mommy and daddy who get comp'd tickets to the sox games because they work for whatever advertiser that is in bed with the sox holding up signs "manny who?". go fuck yourselves.
we understand he could be a pain in the ass, but why not talk fairly about the guy. why not discuss some of the good things he did? along with pedro and nomah, the guy helped change the face of the franchise forever.
i'll ALWAYS root for the red sox, always have, always will, its in the DNA. but watching the game last night, even if bay went 4-4 with 4 homers, it just wasnt the same. i'll get over it in a couple of days i guess, i'll have to. but watching dodgers fans chant "Man-ny, Man-ny" drove the knife right back in.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:01 AM
- redsock said...
So now, it appears Manny, when he learned he was really going to be traded to Los Angeles, actually wanted to stay!
That is truly bizarre. In many ways, I don't think he really wanted to leave Boston. His kind words about the fans showed he liked the environment. But there were apparently things he wanted (or his agent and he agreed they wanted) (or there was some possible slight by the front office) and forcing a trade was one possbile way to get what he wanted.
Did Manny think he could call the Sox's bluff and they would not deal him? (I wonder how low of a return Theo would have been willing to take?) He should have seen that he'd lose on that count.
I believe Manny was sincere when he said he wanted to retire here with 600+ HR, etc. When it became clear to him that the FO had no desire to do so, then things on both sides got out of control.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:02 AM
- nixon33 said...
again i ask, as i did yesterday in the gamethread but so much was happening i think it was overlooked:
if manny doesn't hire boras in the off season, does this situation get this ugly and end up in manny being traded in this fashion?
i know this is HIGHLY speculative, but im just taking the temp of what you all think?
- August 2, 2008 at 9:05 AM
- redsock said...
Should we have a contest to see which player is next to be in CHB's and Buckley's cross-hairs?
Drew is a good candidate ... Bot often can't shut his hole ... Ortiz is black, he's got old player skills and he liked Manny ... Maybe someone we don't have yet (can they wait that long?) ... hmmmmmmmmm
- August 2, 2008 at 9:11 AM
- James said...
I'm not a racist, but I will gladly take next month's rent from you.
I don't know, it seems like getting worked up over people who work for the Red Sox echoing the party line is a little silly. I mean, by all means, go after the talk show hosts and newspaper people, but do you really expect Don and Orsillo to say anything negative about their employers on TV?
When the mouthpiece of the Red Sox organization (The President of Red Sox nation!) falls in line with people he represents; that's really something worth getting worked up over?
Now THIS is propaganda:
- August 2, 2008 at 9:11 AM
- redsock said...
that's really something worth getting worked up over?
I guess it is since I got worked up over it. If I get angry or happy or find something intereting, I'll mention it. That's a large part of what blogging is.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:18 AM
- redsock said...
if manny doesn't hire boras in the off season, does this situation get this ugly and end up in manny being traded in this fashion?
i was going to say no way does it get this bad, but if the red sox were going to let manny go after this season and he was upset by that because he thought for sure they would keep him (which they might have indicated to him; what was his comment about the team saying one thing and doing another, we never found out what they was about), yeah it could have gotten this bad -- or bad in a differtent way.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:21 AM
- redsock said...
it seems like getting worked up over people who work for the Red Sox echoing the party line is a little silly.
I mean no offense by saying this, but you don't have to read everything I post. I don't mind (in fact, I'll never know).
- August 2, 2008 at 9:22 AM
- redsock said...
And now I'll try to get a lot of work done so I can see the game tonight.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:23 AM
- nixon33 said...
re: the boras thing.
i wonder though if he keeps that same spring training attitude, the secret, dont worry be happy, and starting the season off in better shape than ever, if he would have put up crazy numbers this year and make the sox think about picking up his option without any head trips with his agent and agendas. how does he gain from this? boras gains as he NOW gets a profit from manny being traded from the sox since the options are gone (I'm not going to pretend like i know the details, but this is true). something about a clause that manny previous agent put in there that if he was fired another agent could profit from the options being picked up, or something to that effect. now boras is set to gain on the next deal sine the options are gone. but manny wont get the money he wants. $40 mill for two years form the sox, he aint gonna beat that.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:31 AM
- papa sime said...
not sure if anyone else has posted any response to "Has there be any media person -- any article -- that has examined this matter from all sides and doled out at least some blame to the front office?"
I turned on espn radio 890 in boston last night for a few moments and was instantly struck at how different the dialogue was. WEEI heads have been going crazy the past few, the hosts have been lashing out w/ anger in their voices about Manny, basically non-stop, and bashing any caller who tried to send ANY love Manny's way, telling them in effect that NO THAT IS NOT HOW ANAYONE FEELS ABOUT THIS SO YOU MAY NOT EITHER.
So I put on 890espn for a few moments... and right away they were saying "NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS TRADE" and many more comments along those lines. They were definitely offering a very refreshing and in my opinion realistic take on the situation: it was necessary but this sucks. And although I didn't listen for long so I don't know if they were passing any blame to the FO, I wouldn't be surprised....But either way I tipped the hat to them for not taking Manny's actions as personally offensive unlike WEEI madmen.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:33 AM
- L-girl said...
Nix, I was waiting for your comments. Great stuff.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:38 AM
- nixon33 said...
papa sime. yeah pete sheppard on 'eei was CELEBRATORY when the trade came down, i just couldnt believe the antics on that station. they were laughing about it!
- August 2, 2008 at 9:40 AM
- nixon33 said...
- August 2, 2008 at 9:41 AM
- L-girl said...
I don't know, it seems like getting worked up over people who work for the Red Sox echoing the party line is a little silly.
If you want to see people get really worked up, tell them the things they're worked up about are silly.
Try it on Jere, he especially loves it.
Tony, different things bother different people. You don't have to agree, but just because something doesn't bother you, doesn't make it silly.
I mean, by all means, go after the talk show hosts and newspaper people, but do you really expect Don and Orsillo to say anything negative about their employers on TV?
No. I do not. Hence what I have repeated several times: all they had to was say, the Manny Rameriz era is over, we wish him well on his new team, the Jason Bay era has begun, and now back to baseball.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:42 AM
- nixon33 said...
Nix, I was waiting for your comments. Great stuff.
thanks, i'm honored!
- August 2, 2008 at 9:42 AM
- L-girl said...
I watched the Dodgers game, too, until I fell asleep.
It hurt to see Manny in that uni. It made me really sad.
And hearing the game called by a true professional reminded me of how great the experience of listening to a ballgame can be.
It's unfair to use Vin as the standard, but damn, he is so great.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:46 AM
- nixon33 said...
And hearing the game called by a true professional reminded me of how great the experience of listening to a ballgame can be.
I KNOW! it had been a while since id head a vin broadcast, and it was fantastic.
- August 2, 2008 at 9:51 AM
- redsock said...
So I found an email address for The Remy Report (not Jerry's though) and send off an email:
I write the Joy of Sox blog and I was highly offended by Jerry's nasty comments about Manny Ramirez last night. He presented a completely one-sided version of the last few weeks, though since NESN/the Red Sox are his employers, I'm not surprised. What I am surprised at is that after hardly making a peep about the matter for weeks, once Ramirez is gone, the floodgates open.
Respect for the game? From a man who is busy selling his autographed scorecards during innings? Please.
I wanted to call his attention to a post I put up early this morning.
Also, if he is so inclined, check out the comments around the time of the third inning (7:38 PM).
Just about everyone watching the game and commenting at the blog was disgusted. Despite the coverage in the papers, many Red Sox fans share this view and I think Jerry should know how we feel.
Thank you.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:05 AM
- nixon33 said...
NICE ONE REDSOCK! spot fucking on.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:07 AM
- andy said...
I will love it if CHB goes after Drew. He is a good target since he doesn't give two shits about what the media says or anyone else for that matter. He's being so level it's sickening to the media types. Oh and he's good. When the lineup is Papi Bay Drew I will make dirty underwear.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:12 AM
- redsock said...
Bay did well last night, I'd like to see him 4th tonight.
One new poster two days ago said he knew a bit about Bay from watching the Pirates and the way he described his in-game attitude made him sound a lot like Drew. I think the Bay honeymoon will last awhile though.
Not sure how long Lowell will be out.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:15 AM
- andy said...
Maybe I missed it. Any analysis of the Theo Tito press conference? I do not know one thing that they said.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:17 AM
- nixon33 said...
sucks about lowell.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:18 AM
- andy said...
If you come into Fenway with a Sox uniform on and triple in extras and then score the winning run, while already scoring the only other run, you get to be respected and loved.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:18 AM
- redsock said...
Universal Hub links here and says:
"Remy? You're on notice."
- August 2, 2008 at 10:19 AM
- nixon33 said...
andy, i think boston.com has the streaming videos.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:20 AM
- nixon33 said...
how lowrie hasn't gotten any credit for last night as well?
- August 2, 2008 at 10:24 AM
- andy said...
Lowrie just needs to play it quiet and keep producing. They will put lugo back out there just as soon as they can because he is so much better now. If there is a stir over who should be out there they will dump lowrie and we may not see him until next year.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:26 AM
- nixon33 said...
Lowrie just needs to play it quiet and keep producing. They will put lugo back out there just as soon as they can because he is so much better now. If there is a stir over who should be out there they will dump lowrie and we may not see him until next year.
what? lugo so much better?
- August 2, 2008 at 10:31 AM
- andy said...
Well you tell the RedSox that lugo is a piece of shit. They should have sent Lugo back to LA with Manny.
- August 2, 2008 at 10:41 AM
- sparky said...
Several random thoughts here.. After a while, I thought maybe I was being naive and getting upset about the trade unnecessarily. I really wanted to watch the game and see how this Bay kid did, and the fans reaction, but I found myself actually getting angry with Remy and Orsillo. This is after I'd decided to try and be objective about it. I had to switch over to the radio broadcast. I've always thought that it's equally incumbent on the FO to sit down with players to air out concerns. I do read some of the papers and a select few blogs that I have some respect for (including Mnookin and Bradford to name a couple) and I've not found one that has even hinted that the FO might, in some small way, maybe be just a tiny bit culpable. Regarding Boras, I believe an agent should be a representative. I kept thinking that if he'd only told Manny "Look, the fans, viewing (reading) public can not know all of the facts, so get out in front of this traveling secretary issue - donate a large sum of money of your own accord. Something. Also, sit down with your damn employer because obviously this isn't working."
- August 2, 2008 at 11:04 AM
- andy said...
This blog has been ceaselessly defending Manny while calling to the forefront the media and the FO as where the blame should go. The people here have acknowledged Manny's part in it but have attacked the FO for playing childish games with the media.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:11 AM
- Spencer Brown said...
Sorry, i'm outta here, this blog is just getting stupidly bigoted and polarized. Are there any blogs where reasonable objectivity prevails?
It seems that you just have a problem with authority and power that rises to the level of tinfoil conspiracy wackiness. Anyone who is connected with ownership or anyone who thinks they should be fighting for their country is automatically not just misinformed, not just that you disagree with them, but actually evil sellouts whose motives are hidden but ONLY YOU know what they are ACTUALLY ABOUT.
"These running dogs of imperialism are lackeys simply reading from the script of their dark masters" is not too much of an exaggeration of your position.
GMAFB. Outta here looking for a decent red sox blog that isn't tinged with insanity.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:13 AM
- andy said...
You know what? The Red Sox organization has people on staff who are public relations experts. This is their sole job. Manny is a member of the organization. He should be afforded the same consideration that all the employees get. The organization has the responsibility of defending and portraying their employees in a positive light. This is why they have these public relations experts. When they turn them on their own, that is crossing a line that the union should look into.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:15 AM
- redsock said...
I'd prefer it if we did not respond to SB's post.
Outta here looking for a decent red sox blog that isn't tinged with insanity.
Best of luck.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:18 AM
- andy said...
Wait what just happened?
- August 2, 2008 at 11:19 AM
- sparky said...
Andy, all I'm saying is that when one of my kids is acting like a jackass, I take him in the other room and tell him to straighten up. Then usually, he does. For a while anyway. I don't think anyone is of the thought that Manny is blameless here, but really... the parent, CEO, GM, boss, whatever, has some responsibility too! It's just that without variation, ALL we have heard is that it's all on Manny. It doesn't make sense. Almost every relationship that goes bad has more than one party at fault.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:20 AM
- andy said...
I took mine down because this thread may get seen by people looking for Remy stuff not this kind of bullshit. That bullshit belongs in game threads.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:22 AM
- sparky said...
Andy - read your next post. I get it. Sorry!
- August 2, 2008 at 11:24 AM
- andy said...
Sparky I know what you are saying. You just said that no blog has blamed the FO. I am sure you meant every other blog but this one. You are good.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:24 AM
- redsock said...
Okay, thanks, Andy.
There are a zillion Red Sox blogs out there. I'm sure he'll find one that is more in tune with his views.
When most people decide to stop reading a blog, they simply stop visiting. They don't feel the need to make a show of it.
We'll survive.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:29 AM
- L-girl said...
When most people decide to stop reading a blog, they simply stop visiting. They don't feel the need to make a show of it.
Or insult the blogger on their way out!
People looking for disinterested objectivity shouldn't read blogs in the first place.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:34 AM
- sparky said...
Andy - yep, that's what I meant. In my opinion, it's ludicrous to think that the FO doesn't bear some of the blame. I've not heard that expressed anywhere else but here. I never saw it as being a Manny apologist or an unconditional devotee or anything like that. I just thought it was being realistic.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:35 AM
- sparky said...
"People looking for disinterested objectivity shouldn't read blogs in the first place."
Lots of luck with the mainstream media too.
- August 2, 2008 at 11:42 AM
- redsock said...
Here's a news flash for ya:
People Have Opinions!
(recoils in shock)
- August 2, 2008 at 11:44 AM
- L-girl said...
Lots of luck with the mainstream media too.
I know! I was going to write that, but I was trying for brevity.
- August 2, 2008 at 12:15 PM
- nixon33 said...
hey SB, in the words of another crazy bastard, "SSSSSSSEEEE YA!"
- August 2, 2008 at 1:03 PM
- Lord Lynch said...
Emotion, eh?
From this side of the pond, I am a lot more detached than others, but as someone who pays a good deal to see as much as I can of the Sox, I share some of the passion. This site made me feel really welcome, and their are good people on here. I don't pretend to know as much as the people who have lived and breathed the Sox and baseball for longer than I. Maybe I can see this from a somewhat detached perspective... maybe I'm a naive fool.
Sport is all about business now, and the company line is the bottom line. Someone goes out of that line is put back into it. Being a maverick is permitted only as long as that person is producing. As soon as a maverick doesn't it is see you later. Mavericks burn less long than the solid guys.
So did I expect a hatchet job from Remy - oh yes. Was it fair comment? In parts maybe. Did he really need to say it? I wish he hadn't - or maybe, I wish he'd had the balls to say it before Manny had gone. But when Manny was producing, it was more a chuckle. It's easy top be snippy when the other party is gone.
Manny has been in the Sox team as long as I have followed them. I'm as sad to see him go as when my baseball hero, and the man who got me into the game, Pedro, left. I don't doubt he was well out of order for some of the things at the end of his tenure in Boston. But instead of carrying on with the hatchet job after he's gone, I think Remy was wrong. Just as CHB will be, and all the others.
I don't mind the NESN coverage in the main, but maybe I'm grateful for anything over here. I just don't think it serves any purpose slagging off a bloke who has left - and it was more than suspicious that it was the company line.
Anyway, this is the friendliest site I've come across, and I enjoy my time here... and I won't flounce out over this!
- August 2, 2008 at 1:59 PM
- redsock said...
Good stuff, LL, especially:
So did I expect a hatchet job from Remy - oh yes. Was it fair comment? In parts maybe. Did he really need to say it? I wish he hadn't - or maybe, I wish he'd had the balls to say it before Manny had gone. ... It's easy top be snippy when the other party is gone.
- August 2, 2008 at 2:02 PM
- Jeff said...
I could care less what the media, including Remy and Orsillo, have to say about Manny. As a FAN, Manny was offensive. Dogging it to first, laying down on your team (and by extension, your fans), rolling over dropped fly balls, essentially telling the fans that they 'don't deserve him' etc etc etc. The laundry list was growing exponentially every day. Remy, who's ALWAYS said Manny was one of the hardest workers he's ever seen, knows far more about him than any of us ever will, but from a fan's perspective, great hitter, lousy person. He never made it easy for us to like him. I say good riddance, and no one is telling me to say that, just my own eyes. Now we can focus on winning.
- August 2, 2008 at 2:21 PM
- Jeff said...
I could care less what the media, including Remy and Orsillo, have to say about Manny. As a FAN, Manny was offensive. Dogging it to first, laying down on your team (and by extension, your fans), rolling over dropped fly balls, essentially telling the fans that they 'don't deserve him' etc etc etc. The laundry list was growing exponentially every day. Remy, who's ALWAYS said Manny was one of the hardest workers he's ever seen, knows far more about him than any of us ever will, but from a fan's perspective, great hitter, lousy person. He never made it easy for us to like him. I say good riddance, and no one is telling me to say that, just my own eyes. Now we can focus on winning.
- August 2, 2008 at 2:27 PM
- redsock said...
Remdawg, is that you?
I could care less what the media, including Remy and Orsillo, have to say about Manny.
The correct phrase is "I couldn't care less", meaning it is not possible for me to care any less about this thing than I do right now.
- August 2, 2008 at 2:27 PM
- Lord Lynch said...
We have a re-run of the game on our channel (NASN), and they cut out Remy's rant.
Wise editing!
- August 2, 2008 at 2:31 PM
- redsock said...
It was the entire third inning! Did they go from the 2nd to the 4th?
Fortunately, you can read the transcript!
- August 2, 2008 at 2:34 PM
- s1c said...
Ok, so have been up and had some of that mojo juice known as coffee to help clear the cob webs. Interesting thread going here so lets look at a few things:
1 - part of my problem with the globe is that they do not have in 1" letters on every story, op-ed etc on the Sox or NESN that they own 17% (I've seen some places 19) of the team thanks to being owned by the most biased newpaper in the world the NY Times.
2 - Just be glad you weren't listening to Dale Arnold. Until the pushing incident Arnold was a huge backer of Manny. That turned him. As to whether the FO was the reason for that getting out I have to believe McAdam when he says the source was not them on that incident.
3 - Sock - my post about obscene was not really a jab at you but just pointing out that I haven't seen that and I knew you would want to correct that wording or admit your misconception. Just trying to be helpful there guy.
4 - Don didn't need to even bring up the subject. He opened the subject to remind viewers that Manny disrespects the game. Actually I think he brought that up so that Remy could say that MBM did respect the game, he just didn't always do it on the field.
5 - Then you might be a bit naive about how media works Maybe, though I have had more than one occasion to work with the media and have seen it destroy up close and personal. I just don't think that the Sox have put out the word to destroy, destroy, destroy and destroy some more the magical mystical tour of MBM. Not a point worth arguing about, just a disagreement on Remy's motives and NESN's as a whole.
6 - Mr. Marshall, could be you are projecting there, you might want to think about that. Lord knows I've disagreed with the JOS community on more than one occasion, right now though I see you as the unsmiling curmedgeon who is just saying stuff to piss people off. My inner heart says that is beneath you, please prove me right sometime.
7 - L-girl, you nailed it about Jere, but we still like the guy.
8 - Spencer Brown though if you are a man of your word you won't see this, door - ass - don't.
9 - Lord Lynch - good to hear from you bud. Never feel bad about being a late comer to Sox nation. All true fans are welcome!!!
- August 2, 2008 at 2:37 PM
- Lord Lynch said...
Was online last night redsock... so heard it then before MLB TV gave up on me. Made some jibe about Pravda and communists! Like most of my jibes, they missed the mark!
Because NASN has a 2 and a half hour slot for a 12 innings game, they jumped from the 2nd to the 6th.
What deal has Mussina done with the devil?
- August 2, 2008 at 2:41 PM
- The Philosopher Queen said...
I'm not sure what the problem is here. First of all, Jerry Remy made clear that he is stating his own opinion (by saying, "in my opinion...). Secondly, while Manny contributed largely to the team's recent successes, one would be hard pressed to say that they "respect" him. His playing and attitude is inconsistent, his attitude was bringing other players down, and frankly, the incident with Jack McCormick under most other circumstances would be considered assault and battery, and Manny would have been arrested. Not much to respect there.
There is a difference between a champion and a superstar. Champions play hard no matter what, regardless of their actual ability. They put the team first, and they are ethically sound people, in general. Superstars, on the other hand, may be great great players, but they lack the ability to think beyond themselves, and therefore don't think about the team, or their actions towards others. Manny is a superstar, not a champion. It's too bad, because people such as Manny do have the potential to be both.
You don't have to agree with Don and Remy, but what's the big deal? They are humans with opinions too, and they chose to share them. This is not the news, trying to be "fair and balanced". They care about the Red Sox. And truthfully, The Red Sox are better of without Manny.
- August 2, 2008 at 2:49 PM
- nixon33 said...
The correct phrase is "I couldn't care less", meaning it is not possible for me to care any less about this thing than I do right now.
- August 2, 2008 at 2:51 PM
- redsock said...
You don't have to agree with Don and Remy, but what's the big deal? They are humans with opinions too, and they chose to share them.
I'm human. Am I not allowed to share my opinion as well?
I love when people do this.
"Hey, why don't you shut up! Remy is allowed to give his opinion, man."
But the person who says this invaribly misses the glaringly obvious point staring him in the face: I'm giving my opinion, too!
But for some reason, that should not be allowed.
And Jesus Christ, Queenie, you know you're regurgitating Jim Donaldson's spiel about champions? Donaldson! He makes CHB look like Roger Angell. I'd be ashamed.
- August 2, 2008 at 2:56 PM
- redsock said...
TPQ: I re-read your second paragraph. What a steaming load of shite.
- August 2, 2008 at 2:58 PM
- The Philosopher Queen said...
1. Actually, at no point did I said that you or anyone else couldn't or shouldn't post their comments or opinions. I was simply responding to the assertion that (Don and Jerry) "used their positions to subject us to propaganda." My response was simply to point out that it was not propaganda, but opinion, and they are entitled to theirs as well.
2. I have no idea what Jesus Christ has to do with this.
3. Admittedly, I don't have a clue who Jim Donaldson is or what he said about champions, but I'll check it out. I'll let you know if I'm ashamed or not after I read up on it.
PS. Your assertion that my second paragraph is a "load of shite" is nice, but unfortunately you didn't back it up with any fact or opinion as to why that might be. Nice try.
Sat Aug 02, 07:04:00 PM
- August 2, 2008 at 4:07 PM
- redsock said...
You offered your own personal definitions for two highly subjective terms. I found it silly.
- August 2, 2008 at 4:12 PM


text:
Results tagged ' Danny Herrera '
Josh Hamilton Is My Hero
When the American League 2008 All Stars were officially announced, every one in baseball took notice that Josh Hamilton had finally come full circle and achieved the dream of his lifetime. The fact that the event would be a total 180 degree swapping of the horrors and the misguided attempts of Hamilton to finally right the ship and cruise to the ultimate harbor. There have been numerous human interest stories before in connection with the All Star game, but none would even hit the zenith that Hamilton took us during the 2008 State Farm Home Run Derby at Yankee Stadium.
From just how far Hamilton had to come was not the issue at hand, but how far he had come, and to where he would take us next. From the day he was selected in 1999 with the First Round overall pick, he has been fighting the demons and the wrath of promise and expectations. When the then Tampa Bay Devilrays took Hamilton, he was considered one of this generations blue-chip, 5-tool players straight out of high school. The sky was the limit then as Hamilton could do just about anything in the outfield and at the plate.
He was a highly decorated high school player, twice being named North Carolina Gatorade High School Player of the Year. Following his senior season, he was named High School Player of the Year by Baseball America and Amateur Player of the Year by USA Baseball. Hamilton played outfield and also pitched during his high school career. As a left-handed high school pitcher, Hamilton sometimes hit 96 MPH. He was touted as a rare talent, who was almost equally skilled as a pitcher and a position player (outfield).
Dan Jennings, then a Tampa Bay scout said "He has every tool we look for in a position player." His high school coach at Athens Drive, John Thomas said "He's better at this game than anyone else I've seen in high school or college."
I remember first seeing Josh at the Namoli Complex in St. Petersburg, Florida. Your first focus was on his strong forearms and his professional demeanor. I know from my work involvement with the Spring Training staff that Hamilton was eager and willing to do anything to show his worth to the team at that stage of his career. On the training field facing SE of the center coaching towers,Josh used to routinely put balls into the players' parking lot during Batting Practice. It became a running joke that the clubhouse staff used to sit out there and shag balls to keep them from hitting the players' cars
After this successful debut in professional baseball, he spent the 2000 season with the Charleston RiverDogs in the South Atlantic League. Prior to the 2001 season, Hamilton was involved in an accident in his truck coming back from a Spring Training game in Sarasota,Florida. His mother was also injured in the accident, and she went home to North Carolina to be with her husband to recuperate from her injuries. For the first time in his professional career, Hamilton was on his own, without a parental voice to reel him in when he overindulged or misbehaved off the field.
The 2001 season was the first time Hamilton began going to the Ybor City section of Tampa with teammates and became involved in the local bar scene and began experimenting with drugs, after a few months he made his first attempt at rehab. Several former Rays players routinely went to the Tampa entertainment zone to let off steam from the days work and enjoy the nightlife. It was at this time that Josh also began his obsession with tattoo's and the local parlors in Ybor City. Long nights and missed curfews were only the tip of the iceberg for Hamilton, the demons were getting to his soul and he was about to plunge deep into the abyss.
Hamilton only played 27 games in the 2001 season, split between Charleston ( Class-A ) and the Orlando Rays ( Class -AA ). Hamilton began the 2002 season with the Bakersfield Blaze ( Class -AA ), batting .303 with 9 home runs and 44 RBI in 56 games before his season came to an end due to lingering back and shoulder injuries. At this time he also began experimenting with pain medication and the effects took a huge part out of his game. He had loss the will to play at the highest level by then, just trying to survive another day on pain medications and other drugs of choice.
At the start of the 2003 season, Hamilton started showing up late during the Rays' Spring Training and was reassigned to the team's minor league camp as a warning to shape up. Hamilton was not happy about the demotion and left the team and disappeared for several weeks, resurfacing several times, but eventually took the rest of the season off for personal reasons. Hamilton was hoping to return to Spring Training with the Devil Rays in 2004, but he was suspended 30 days and fined for violating the drug policy put in place by MLB.
Because of the length of his suspension, and the terms of the drug policy, Hamilton must have failed two or more drug tests after being put into the program. A 'failed' test is a positive result for a drug more severe than marijuana. Hamilton was known to frequent local tattoo parlors and clubs where cocaine and other drugs could be found easily and without problems. Alcohol also became a secondary drug of choice while doing the club scene in Ybor City.
The suspension was increased several times after repeated violations of the terms of the program. From 2002 until 2006, Hamilton did not play any baseball at all. He was starting to hit the downward spiral that would take him into situation he could never imagine in his life. He made several attempts at rehab, and started off the 2005 season with hopes of being reinstated by MLB. During his time away from baseball, Hamilton had escalated to using heroin and shed almost 35 pounds off his frame from the drug use. One time during a brief stay in a drug house in North Carolina, Hamilton let a known drug dealer use his truck to go get more narcotics for the people in the house, but the drug dealer never returned with his truck or the drugs.
Hamilton's struggles with drugs and alcohol are well documented. He finally got clean after being confronted by his grandmother, Mary Holt. Hamilton says he hasn't used drugs or alcohol since October 6, 2005. When giving a brief summary of his recovery Hamilton says simply "It's a God thing." He does not shy away from telling his story, speaking to community groups and fans at many different functions. He frequently and publicly tells stories of how Christianity has brought him back from the brink and that faith is what keeps him going.
Hamilton finally put down the struggle and the redemption in a book entitled, " Beyond Belief: Finding The Strength To Come Back". The book details the events that led up to the derailment. Josh explains how a young man destined for fame and wealth could allow his life to be taken over by drugs and alcohol. But it is also the memoir of a spiritual journey that breaks through pain and heartbreak and leads to the rebirth of his major-league career.
Josh Hamilton makes no excuses and places no blame on anyone other than himself. He takes responsibility for his poor decisions and believes his story can help millions who battle the same demons. "I have been given a platform to tell my story" he says. "I pray every night I am a good messenger."
His wife Katie sometimes accompanies him on road games and during personal appearances, offering her perspective on his struggles as well. To go along with the provisions of MLB's drug policy, Hamilton provides urine samples for drug testing at least three times per week. Rangers' coach Jerry Narron says of the frequent testing: "I think he looks forward to the tests. He knows he's an addict. He knows he has to be accountable. He looks at those tests as a way to reassure people around him who had faith." Hamilton approaches the plate at Texas Rangers home games to the song "Saved The Day" by Christian group Phillips, Craig & Dean.
One of the biggest opponents of helping Hamilton get back to the major leagues was Clearwater Baseball Academy owner Ron Silver. After hearing about Hamilton's desire to return to baseball, Silver offered the use of his facility if Hamilton agreed to work helping area kids and also fine-tuning his swing and follow through after lessons and events.
After several months there, Hamilton attempted to play with an independent minor league team,the Broxton Roxs, but MLB stepped in and disallowed it. After reviewing his case, and hearing from doctors that being around baseball might speed his recovery, Hamilton was allowed to work out with the Devil Rays minor league players starting on June 2, 2006. Throughout this endeavor, the Rays management let Hamilton know that they would do anything possible to ensure his protection and his health while fighting to get back into shape for baseball and beyond.
I remember I had to deliver some Aquafina water and Pepsi products to the Rays Minor League complex the morning Hamilton officially could go back onto the field for the Rays. Hamilton has no idea of the media circus waiting for him outside when I pulled up to the doors. Sitting outside the doors to the practice fields were almost 10 TV cameras' and crews waiting for Hamilton to emerge to start his MLB career over again. He was inside talking to Tim M, who runs the complex for the Rays when I first saw him. Hamilton looked bigger and stronger than when he was with the Rays before, and had a aura about him now. As he turned and smiled at me, I saw that he also had a renewed vigor and swagger about him. A positive light that truly would guide him through this endeavor.
Josh had found religion was the key to his core. That by believing in the Lord, he had a co-pilot on his journey this time. That he could trust himself and his faith that things would be right this time. He turned, shook my hand after I told him it was glad to see him back again with a smile on his face again and he slowly step towards the door. I warned him of the media storm outside the door, and he just smiled and said, " I have been waiting for this all my life, I am past the hurricane, this is just a sun-soaked rain shower now."
By the end of the month, he was allowed to participate in minor league games. He played 15 games with the short-season Hudson Valley Renegades near the end of the 2006 season. In addition to returning to baseball, Hamilton also served as a cautionary tale for his young teammates with the Renegades. Rick Zolzer, the Renegades' director of special events said of Hamilton: ""He pointed (the other players) in the right direction. He said, Don't make the mistakes I made.' He was so good with all of the young kids."
Hamilton was then selected third overall in the MLB portion of the 2006 Rule 5 Draft by the Chicago Cubs in the off season. The Rays had not placed him on their 40-man roster and left him unprotected to be selected by any of the MLB clubs. The Rays were hoping that with his sorted past and a career in jeopardy, teams would not select him and he would remain with the Rays while reconstructing his career. The Cubs took a gamble on Hamilton, and he was later traded to the Cincinnati Reds for $100,000 ($50,000 for his rights, and $50,000 to cover the cost of the Rule 5 selection). In their coverage of the draft, Chris Kline and John Manuel of Baseball America called Hamilton "the biggest name in the Rule 5 Draft."
In order to retain the rights to Hamilton, the Reds had to keep him on their Major League 25-man roster for the entire 2007 season. He was one of the Reds' best hitters in spring training, leaving camp with a .403 batting average. As a result, he won a spot on the Reds' Opening Day roster; the Reds planned to use him as a fourth outfielder. Hamilton started most of the time in center field after an injury to former-Ray Ryan Freel. He also received starts due to injuries to Chris Denorfia and Norris Hopper.
Hamilton made his long-awaited Major League debut on April 2 against the Chicago Cubs in a pinch-hit appearance,and received a 22-second standing ovation from the Reds' faithful. He lined out to left fielder Matt Murton, who made a sliding catch. Hamilton stayed in the game to play left field. As he was waiting to bat, Cubs catcher Michael Barrett said "'You deserve it, Josh. Take it all in, brother. I'm happy for you."
He made his first start on April 10 against the Arizona Diamondbacks, batting lead off. In that game, he recorded his first Major League hit, a home run off Édgar González. The next night, he hit another. Hamilton was named the National League Rookie of the Month for April. On May 22, the Reds placed Hamilton on the 15-day DL with gastroenteritis; they activated him on June 5 after he batted .333 (8-for-24) with four home runs and six RBI in a six-game Minor League rehabilitation assignment. Hamilton went back on the DL on July 12 with a sprained wrist.
Among all NL rookies, Hamilton placed second behind the Brewers' Ryan Braun in slugging percentage (.554), and fourth in home runs (19); behind Braun, Arizona's Chris Young, and the Rockies' Troy Tulowitzki. He was shut out in the voting for the Rookie of the Year, which was won by Braun.
On December 21, 2007, the Reds traded Hamilton to the Texas Rangers for Edinson Volquez and Danny Herrera.
In 2008, Hamilton locked up the Rangers starting center fielder job with a stellar spring training in which he batted .556 and drove in 13 RBIs in 14 games. His spring training performance proceeded to follow into the regular season. Hamilton, usually slotted third in the Texas batting order, appears to be finally fulfilling his great potential. Hamilton led all Major League players in RBI for the month of April. He was named American League Player of the Month after hitting .330 with 32 RBI during the month. Hamilton then went on to win player of the month for the second straight month in May, becoming the first American League player in baseball history to be awarded Player of the Month for the first two months of the season.
Hamilton was featured on the cover of the June 2, 2008 issue of Sports Illustrated, in a story chronicling his comeback. On July 9, 2008 Josh Hamilton hit the first walk-off home run of his career against Angels' closer, Francisco Rodriguez. Fans selected Hamilton as one of the starting outfielders for the American League at the 2008 MLB All Star Game at Yankee Stadium. He finished first in voting among the outfielders to clinch his spot. He will be one of seven first-time starters in the game.
Along with Kosuke Fukudome, Geovany Soto,Ryan Braun,and the Rays' Evan Longoria, he will be one of four who made their MLB debut 2007 or 2008. He was selected to participate in the 2008 State Farm Home Run Derby the evening before the game. Hamilton selected 71-year old Clay Counsil to throw to him during the Derby. Counsil was a local volunteer who threw batting practice for him as an American Legion player in Cary, NC. Counsil threw picture perfect pitches for Hamilton to hit that night in Yankee Stadium. At one point it was rumored he had thrown over 90 pitches before Josh had finished his First Round.
In the first round of the event Hamilton hit 28 home runs, to break the single round record of 24 set by Bobby Abreu in 2005. Several of those homers were to the only place in Yankee Stadium where a ball could be hit out of the complex, deep right center field next to the upper decks. Hamilton, who had 28 homers after the first round, came out and took only a small amount of pitches to extend his total to 32, before retiring for the final round. Hamilton ended up hitting the most total home runs in the contest with 35, but lost in the final round to Justin Morneau, as the scores were reset. His record setting first round included 13 straight home runs at one point, and three that went further than 500 feet. His longest home run was 518 feet.
In 2006, when Hamilton was trying to get back into baseball, he had a dream where he participated in a Home Run Derby at Yankee Stadium, but he could not remember how many home runs he had hit. After the Derby Hamilton said: "This, was like living the dream out, because like I've said, I didn't know the ending to that dream." The next night, Josh started in center field for the American League, and went 1-3 on the night and was greeted by a huge cheer from the mostly Yankee crowd on his first at-bat.
Hamilton has been an inspiration to both young and old to rise to this level of achievement in such a short frame of time. The season is still young, and Hamilton is currently leading Major League Baseball in RBI's with 95. He is currently hitting .310 for the year and is ranked 18th in the MLB, and 9th in the AL. Hamilton also has 21 homers at the break to rank 12th in the MLB and 3rd in the AL, two behind the leader.
Hamilton has a chance to made a bid for the Triple Crown this season. He was also touted as a early favorite for the AL MVP award. But in the end, the only category that Hamilton lead in the American League was the RBI crown with 130 RBI's on the year. He ended up with a .304 batting average, good enough for 11th in the Al. He also ended up hitting 32 home runs to tie for 8th in the AL in that category. Some say the pressure of carrying the Rangers and the long season put Hamilton behind the 8-ball early in the second half of the season.
In the AL MVP race, he ended up coming in 7th place, and was the last participant to top 100 points in the race, he ended up with 113 points in the MVP voting.
We have a lot of great baseball to play, and Josh still has some unfinished business to attend to in the upcoming seasons. He has so much promise in 1999 when he signed with the Rays, and so much time was lost and will never be retained again. But with determination and a will to succeed, we all will see Hamilton rise from the ashes and become the man and player we always knew he would be in baseball.
We should all be grateful this fantastic athlete found the courage and commitment to raise himself above life's struggles and tragedies. He is a perfect example of mind over matter, and that the power of your own will can defeat any and all demons if you just believe. And with that, I think I will hit the TIVO again and watch the State Farm Home Run Derby all over again tonight.

subset: commoncrawl


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KennyTheKangaroo wrote:did not watch. what was atmosphere like?
Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:did not watch. what was atmosphere like?
No. 1 Gonzaga Bulldogs versus No. 8 Pittsburgh Panthers or No. 9 Wichita St. Shockers
Upset chances: 48.7 percent versus Pittsburgh; 26.7 percent versus Wichita State
For all the talk about Gonzaga not deserving a 1-seed and drawing a weak bracket, the committee didn't do the Zags any favors by potentially Pitt-ing them against the Panthers in the round of 32. Pittsburgh is no No. 8 seed. In fact, our model calls the Panthers the seventh-best team in the country in terms of their base power rating (just two spots behind Gonzaga). Largely because of that fact, they have an absurdly high GK rating of 67. Then consider the fact that the Panthers sport the country's fourth-best offensive rebound percentage (40.8), force steals on 10.9 percent of possessions and play at a slug-like pace (339th in the country). That's not a pretty sight for the Zags.
Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:Despite urges otherwise, I picked Pitt to lose in the first round this year, which means they'll win the championship. You can all thank me when it happens.
Idoit40fans wrote:Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:Despite urges otherwise, I picked Pitt to lose in the first round this year, which means they'll win the championship. You can all thank me when it happens.
I only have 200 thank yous that I can send out to people who made this claim, and it would be unfair not to send them out in the order that the claims were made, so unfortunately I can't properly thank you.
Orlando Penguin wrote:I'm in...and judging by the fact that I watch college hoops like a housewife watches soaps and Oprah AND I won 5 of these pools back in 2009, I have absolutely ZERO chance of winning this group.
Idoit40fans wrote:Wouldn't ESPN adequately do that?
columbia wrote:8/10 so far.
Some nerd duffer has 10/10.
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Whoever thought mermaids were things of fairy-tales and Disney movies would be wrong. In the 1960s and 70s mermaids were alive and well in the Ozarks.
Whoever thought mermaids were things of fairy-tales and Disney movies would be wrong. In the 1960s and 70s mermaids were alive and well in the Ozarks.
Instead of waitressing or working a boat dock, some lucky lake teens spent their summers performing as aqua-maids and aqua-lads in Osage Beach.
While on vacation in Weeki Wachee, Florida, the Johl family watched a show full of mermaids, which sparked an idea.
"We watched the show and all looked at each other and said, 'We could do this. It doesn't have to be in a natural spring. You can build a pool with windows in it and it could be a show. That's where it started," Marc Johl said.
Soon the idea became a reality and Aquarama was born.
The Johls ran the show for five years. Cast members memorized choreography, trained in just a few months and performed inside a pool through windows to a captive audience. The show was put to music and was narrated by Mrs. Johl. After four years of the original Aquarama, the Johls decided to turn it into a night club. The Johls ran the Cabaret Aquarama for a year before new ownership took over.
Six years ago and what seemed like a lifetime later to many, a couple from Portland, Ore. discovered an Aquarama brochure miles away from Osage Beach.
Jeff and Kelly Kunkle own Vintage Roadside, a company that creates t-shirts about old roadside attractions and sells them online. When they found Aquarama's brochure, they decided to do some research and create an Aquarama t-shirt. With each shirt, they create they a history tag, which became difficult with Aquarama.
"When we started putting together the history for this one, we weren't finding much. About a week later, we got an order from someone in Osage Beach. We thought, 'Wow, maybe they know something about it.' So we shipped the order out and about two weeks later, we get an email from this gal that said, 'Would you like to know more about it? I worked there for six years.' And so at that point, we did a happy dance around the dining room table," Kunkle said.
Not long after Kunkle made contact with Aquamaid Janie, he received another email. This one was from Pam Davis of St. Louis. Davis remembers being eight years old and visiting Aquarama, but for her this wasn't just another roadside attraction. For Davis, this was a part of her family history.
Davis' grandparents, the Johls, owned Aquarama. She helped the Kunkles connect with her uncle Marc who played a huge role in Aquarama.
"For us, that was sort of cracking the door open. I still can't to this day explain why we have spent six years now working on this one. We have done other shirts and other research projects where we found some history, it's been great stuff, we re-introduced it to people. At first we found three of the aquamaids, then we found four then we found Mark, whose family started the whole thing. He still had original costumes and things like that. We thought, wow, there is still a lot out there even though a lot of people at the lake didn't remember it because it has been gone since 1973," Kunkle said. "Here we are six years later, we determined there were 39 girls and boys who ever performed in the show. Just last month, we got in touch with number 39. We have been in touch now with all 39 people that ever swam in the show. Still I can't explain why--- everybody had such great fond memories of it. To be in high school and be a mermaid was just one of the coolest jobs ever. It's a really select group that can say they did that, outside of Florida. They've all grown up, married, had families, jobs and forgotten all about that."
Johl was the original Aqua lad and even created the show's choreography in the later years.
"I wasn't originally supposed to be in the show, but I knew all the numbers. I knew all the moves. I recorded all the music, helped my mom record all the commentary. I was an integral part up to that point. Barbara saw I could do it, so she worked me into the show," Johl said.
Barbara Hodgson, now Bretko, was 19 years old when she left her job in Weeki Wachee, to help the Johls create Aquarama. She trained the high school aged maids and watched Aquarama become a thriving show.
"I was swimming at Weeki Wachee in Florida, which is a natural spring. Then, the Johls had this brilliant idea to do a water show down here. They came and found me. I took the job and came and trained all the girls. We worked really hard for three months then opened up. It was great," Hodgson said.
After the first year of the show, Hodgson got married and moved away. She became a mother of three and grandmother of three and simply moved past her Aquarama days. When she was contacted out of the blue two years ago, she was shocked.
A few years ago, Kunkle had a dream of organizing a reunion. Since he found all the cast members. He knew it was time — the weekend of May 3 and 4. As many that could make it, made their way to Lake of the Ozarks. Friday night, they enjoyed a three-hour dinner and were able to catch up with old friends. The next day, they gathered at Tan-Tar-A and reminisced about the old days.
"It feels wonderful to come back and see the people and their faces. It's been a wonderful weekend," Hodgson said. "It's just been a super opportunity to get with everybody and get back to the area. I'm really grateful for Kelly and Jeff for everything they have done."
Since the idea came about in 1963 and progress on the building began that same year, Johl considers this year to be Aquarama's 50th anniversary.
"It's amazing. Think about a 50th year reunion," Johl said.
Davis was able to come to the reunion and meet the men and women that her grandparents impacted.
"It's interesting. As a little girl, you don't think your grandmother has relationships with all these people. She is just your grandmother. People have come up to me and told me how sweet she is and that she has made an impression on their lives," Davis said. "I'd come and visit and they would take me up to the restaurant. I was eight and I'd meet some of the mermaids. I was just a little kid in awe looking up to everybody," she said."This business, I think both of them got a big kick out of it."
For the Kunkles, Aquarama has held a special place in their hearts and watching the reunion become a reality, was just icing on the cake.
"It's just been so rewarding for us," Kunkle said. "It's been incredible. They have told us that it was some of the best times of their life. They've talked about what a great time they've had. They've laughed pointed themselves out in the photos. They've talked about how 'I still recognize you. You still have the same smile.' That sort of thing."
For Kunkle, Vintage Roadside, is about much more than selling t-shirts.
"I think we can all think back to a time in our lives where you were taking a family road trip and you remember the places along the way. It wasn't getting somewhere, it was along the way you stopped and you saw this or you begged mom and dad to stop at the dinosaurs along the highway or in this case, you got to see mermaids in Missouri. Things have changed, now it's about the destination. You get in a plane and fly to Disney Land. You get there, vacation and come home. You aren't seeing all these great things along the way. I think everybody has a fond memory of that type of thing," Kunkle said.
Vintage Roadside is interested in any photos or home movies of Aquarama. If anyone has any, please contact email@example.com.