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Saturday, September 30, 2006
Take It From Katie - an essay about style versus skill
I almost think that anyone who can tell you what their style is, or openly talks about "developing their style" is in danger of never finding a real style whatsoever. I tend to think that your "style" is similar to your personality- something that grows as you get older and learn more, but that you're born and stuck with none the less. A real artist's style is like a thumbprint...unique and impossible to really recreate. You can copy an eye shape that John invented or a particular Chuck Jones mouth curl or whatever, but you can never master their "style" because you can't absorb what really matters- an artist's personal point of view, their emotions, or their personality. I guess this sounds sort of cheesy, but it's difficult to explain!What John said about learning skill before style is extremely important. People today are far too interested in "expressing themselves" and trying to prove how unique their points of view are to take the time to learn. No one wants to waste time learning how to do something right. In most other professions this is ridiculous. Would you get up onto a stage to sing some song you wrote in front of the whole world if you couldn't play your instrument? If your ideas are so important to you that you want to show them to the world, do yourself a favor and take the time to learn the skill. I can say from personal experience that studying and practicing and eventually getting better is EXTREMELY rewarding. Before working on APC my drawings were REALLY crappy. I had no skills whatsoever, although I talked a lot about construction and perspective and all that. I didn't actually learn anything until I was forced to while doing layouts for John. After the season ended I woke up one morning and realized that something new had clicked- where a year before I could only draw someone standing perfectly straight with no expression or life, suddenly I was having fun drawing poses that I had previously thought to be too hard. It seemed like almost over night drawing went from being arduous and kind of entertaining to being thrilling and super fun. It's been two years or more since then and I'm only now coming off of that high. I'm in no way saying that I made the leap from amateur to professional- I've only made one tiny step towards being good enough to tell the kinds of jokes and stories I like through art.The thoughts in this post aren't very organized…sorry! There's one more thing I want to say though- I've observed something about the modern world, and that is that it encourages creativity and uniqueness in people than ever before. This is very bad. I learned in school that it was more important to be "unique and creative" than it was to be smart or knowledgeable. Dumb people on MTV or in artsy fartsy magazines who aren't smart or creative tell you what smart and creative stuff to like. I wasn't around until a somewhat short while ago, but I believe in the past people who were meant to be artists simply became them because there wasn't anything else to be. Today there are millions of "creatives" fighting to be the most popular with our dumb modern culture. Ask yourself if you have no choice but to draw funny pictures for a living (for some reason it seems so glamorous to people). If you are reading art/theory blogs like John's and you love the art but aren't helping yourself out by following the advice, then perhaps you ought to look for work in another area. If that makes you mad and you don't want to be thought of as a faker, then take what John says to heart and better yourself. You'll be happier, and the people looking at your work will be happier too!
go check out her drawings:
50 comments:
I love Katie's drawings, and what she said really struck a chord with me. What put me off a bit about your post on the subject was the way you seemed to dismiss anime as being a negative influence (whereas it's obvious it has had an impact on her work). That's just me being too sensitive, because there are a lot of failings in anime that deserve to be harped on. It really is more about skimming what you like from what you see and throwing away the negative. Focus on structure and learn from a variety of influences, both in art and life.
I'm not sure I've said what I want to with this comment, but the bottom line is thanks for sharing.
I think one of the biggest problems is, people don't have an eye for being able to tell when their own work is good. I crap out a lot of bad drawings that I'd be too embarassed to post online, and I have some I do think are pretty decent. I see other people's blogs where I can't believe what they post, and I can't understand why they aren't embarassed by it. A lot of fellow students in my art classes didn't seem like they could tell when their artwork sucked either. They need to be constantly comparing themselves to the skill of their influences, instead of being slightly better than their own work from a year ago.
I think this could lead to the lack of skill problem because kids think they're "good" and never try to learn more, and skip to just developing a "style".
- SmittyCartoons said...
This is great! Very to the point. Having taught high school and college art, I've seen firsthand what she's talking about. What I try to stress at the high school level is that drawing skills are SO important regardless of what kind of art you might eventually see yourself making. But you have to be careful here too. With high school art students I try to make it fun, have them learn about some basic elements and principles of design, but what I stress above all else is that art can have a meaningful place in their lives whether they become professional artists one day or not. On the college level, however, I am more harsh and to the point, much like Katie's excellent post. You have to be. Many kids don't want to hear it and would rather blindly and halfheartedly waste a college career going through the motions of what may ultimately be a dead-end. Many of those kids should not be in art schools to begin with but $ presides over portfolios, grades, and common sense. I think it is important to realzie also that the statements Katie is making are not (or shoudl not) aimed directly at college students or 'amateur artsists'. Those statements should be taken into account by professional working artists today no matter what their level of expertise or accomplishments may be. Everyone can improve and learn more. Finding a comfort zone and staying in it will only retard your growth as an artist. Drawing EVERY day should be a part of every artist's menu. It's natural that we admire and even borrow tidbits from other artists, but that is not STYLE. Your own voice will come (and SHOULD continue to evolve) but without the skills to back it up, that 'style' will be hollow or a cheap copy of someone else's work. I still haven't found my 'style'. Perhaps as Katie suggests, I am looking too hard. Her post was a good reminder of that!
thanks for pointing out the painfully obvious on my blog john! haha.
i didn't mean to say i was above needing to learn more, i DEFINITELY do. i havent done enough of the course, i never practice enough, and get rusty, and etc. i've barely drawn in months. My point was supposed to be that i think a lot of people think they don't need to learn more, when they do. people need to be able to recognize their suckiness.
- Alessa K said...
You all read my mind. Thank you all so much for your posts. Every aspiring artist should read this.
- Peggy said...
Style is like love. It sneaks up on you when you're not looking.
- Peter said...
"I learned in school that it was more important to be "unique and creative" than it was to be smart or knowledgeable."
Tough love! Thanks for this. There is alot of people pleasing and bellyrubbing in school art education. If all the students dropped out because they thought they were bad, how would the professors and administration get paid? Holy education system issues, Batman.
People can't rely on the approval of peers they pay (or are non critical) for their success as an artist. Enjoy it, always improve, approach it with a blue collar and work hard. Thanks John & Katie for the advice on improvement! We should never stop learning and getting better.
- Joel Bryan said...
She's absolutely right! And also you are... but enough of the ass-kissing. Right is right.
When I was in art school, there were always these kids lounging about on the steps... first year kids... complaining to each other about how "My art isn't about structure and that shit they're trying to teach us in class. My art is about feeling and freedom!"
Which is all well and good, I guess. I mean, if you want to never learn or grow into any kind of artist at all. Self-expression and freedom are wonderful things, and should be cultivated but not at the expense of actually learning where all of these wonderful concepts and ideas came from. Not at the expense of dumping all the knowledge our parents were putting out huge quantities of cash for us to learn.
I don't know... somewhere or other I went way wrong myself and probably won't ever get back on track. I have the influences and I try to work on construction and form and use the lessons I got from the decent instructors there, and the amazing stuff you're giving away for free here...
And I've gone to all those blogs in your links list...
Wow. That's some seriously great stuff.
- Shawn Luke said...
Yeah, I gotta thank Katie for that one. It caused me to reflect a little bit on where I place my values. Humble pie is always a good way to start the day.
- Chloe Cumming said...
Katie: Your words are very powerful, if you were in any doubt, you explained yourself beautifully.
The fallacious emphasis on 'being unique and creative' pervades more than just art schools. These ideas have become twisted into uselessness. It makes me angry that what it really means is that the people who DO have the potential to truly 'be creative' (to make something of lasting worth and beauty) are neglected, never taught the skills that would enable them to grow at a natural pace, and are ultimately kind of swamped among a sea of attention-seeking posers.
And if no one has the sense or the guts to spot the difference, how do you stop this from happening?
The other reason I was quite touched by Katie's words is that the visual people really need a voice.
I just listened to a British radio program called Serious About Comedy, and this week they actually reviewed the original season 1 & 2 Ren and Stimpy DVD. The apparently articulate panel, some of whom I thought I respected, really didn't get it at all. I felt a little bit sick. There was one female comedian who just said that she was a 'verbal girl' and that visual humour just went over her head. Unfortunately it is the 'verbal people' who inevitably tend to spill the most words, shout the loudest, and who APPEAR to have the consensus opinions about the world. They don't make beautiful cartoons though, or paint beautiful pictures.
To my mind, a purely abstract or intellectual understanding of the world seems unbalanced. It's something that only a very small number of people are really suited for, maybe philosophers and critics. We aren't all philosophers and critics. The uncontrolled growth of an unbalanced, macho, argumentative way of thinking has been harmful.
As much as the internet helps with exposure to obscure artists etc, it also encourages people to throw their idiot opinions about very freely and relentlessly. Sometimes quietness and humility is necessary for true learning.
I've always tried to be analytically in tune with my visual intelligence, but this blog really makes me want to raise my game and put my pictures where my words are. Even now I'm 'talking a good game' and wondering if I'll truly be able to follow my own logic. Words are too easy.
But it's wonderful when visually brilliant people like Katie and John are able to put their experience into words, because these are not just 'different opinions' to shove into the mix, this is an entirely different mode of thinking, with different motivations behind it.
- Ryan G. said...
Hey John! What is your theory on constructive critisism. I think many artist dont know how to take constructive critisism, therefore, never really improving.
Alot of artists only listen to non-artist views (mom and dad, friends) that dont have any artistic skills and therefore think there art is great only because they themselves couldnt do that.
But when a real artist critisizes there work, they get all huffy about it.
But at what level do you take the critics advice?
Do they have to possess a technically superior artistic skill greater than yours to be valid?
Some teachers at my school have low expectations for students work.
They praise them for mediocrity, and dont offer any solutions for their problems. Other teachers are brutally honest and make some students feel insignificant and embarrassed. I love the teachers that are honest and although taking critisism might be tough for some, it will better them in the end.
- Katie said...
Hi Evan! I agree that many people don't have the ability to judge their own work, even though they can still choose which cartoons or drawings they like to look at. Being able to tell just how good you are, or how good someone else is, comes from lots of hard work and eye-training. I think the solution is to just always assume you're not as good as the people you look up to- it's usually true, and it keeps you in a state or perpetual improvement. I've never met a truly great artist who said "well, I've reached the top! There's no way I'm getting any better...guess I'll just settle here where I am!" and that's why they're as good as they are.
Also- being hard on yourself doesn't mean hating your artwork or punching yourself repeatedly for not being perfect. I think that drawing only gets more fun the better you get at it, and the more passion you put in. Imagine watching your favorite cartoons (or movies, or comics, etc)after training yourself to have a better eye- things that went over your head before will jump out at you and entertain you in new ways. Things become more inspiring too!
Without any solid skills you'd be very limited as to how you can express yourself artistically. It riminds me of the lazy kids in life drawing class who complained when a pose was 'too hard'. My thought was always 'the pose isn't too hard, your skill are just weak'. You never hear writers saying 'all that spelling, grammar and reading will just hold back my skills as an author'.
- Dan DeHaan said...
Here! Here! I've learned more on these blogs and the books they've recommended than the art classes I've taken. I was quite frustrated with the fact that all of these "art teachers" were trying to teach me to discover my style before I was shown tenchnique! Eh...If anything I probably taught them a thing or two about how to draw dog feces. Cause....I drew a lot of dog feces in those classes.
- Andrew said...
I work in a different albeit slightly related field (puppetry) and I find that so much of what you say John can be applied to a whole range of artforms.
There really has been a decline of traditional skills in a lot of artistic fields and this "style over skill" problem isn't limited to animation. I know older special effects artists who freak out because grads coming out of SPX programs think their FX work is great, but don't understand basic photographic concepts like perspective and composition. In my own work I've hired graduates of art schools in the past who wanted to build puppets but lacked basic skills like sewing and even being able to cut a straight line!
I don't exempt myself from this problem either. I was a style over skill person for a long time. Fortunately I got to work with a number of older, more talented artists who kicked my butt until I began to learn things I've never knew I never knew.
Thanks so much for these great posts. I know everyone (not just animators) who reads your blog really, really appreciates and learns so much from them!
- JohnK said...
Hi Ryan,
Teachers should be blunt but encouraging if you have talent. If you don't they should give your money back and kick you out.
When you learn something you should have no ego about it at all.
I take tap dance lessons. When my teacher tells me I'm doing something wrong, I don't tell him "that's my style".
I try to fix what I'm doing. It doesn't hurt my feelings at all.
I used to beg Bob Clampett to tell me what I was doing wrong so I could get better.
Katie said to always look up and never rest. I agree.
There are always people better than you. If you can find them, beg them to tell you their secrets and don't argue, unless like some folks who post here, you want to draw like a 10 year old for the rest of your life.
- Shawn said...
I know that there's a lot of weaknesses in my art. Sometimes it's hard to tell what they are though. I need someone with a good eye and the balls to tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can get better, but so many people just want to be polite and say, "it looks good". Well that doesn't help me at all.
- Brian Goss said...
- This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
- Pedro Vargas said...
Wowwy wow! These past few posts (including this one) are breathtakingly strong in advice! I feel more stabalized now that I've read your post on influences. Thank you John, I can't wait to talk to my friends about this! I'll deffinately make sure they see your posts. I'm tired of seeing animation students at my school seeming relaxed because they know what they're doing and in fact they don't. I don't know either, but hell I try at least to figure out different things and learn diferent things and apply some of them into my art. Those animation students put on that stupid Bugs Bunny face when he's being a dick to Daffy Duck. That bothers me 'cause it looks like they're comfortable w/ the postion they are in now and seem like they aren't encouraged to learn new things and that's not good. I've seen their stuff and it's the same old shit. Fancy 3D camera angles and way to much over-the-top actions. It's beggining to make me outburst with anger in front of these people. I've recently showed your blog to my animation proffessor and was real interested in seeing what you had. I hope he understands what you've written in your posts and can maybe apply some of your information in his teachings.
Once again thanks, John! I think your making a big change with this blog.
- Chloe Cumming said...
Perhaps there's a problem with the phrase 'express yourself', because 'yourself' is never what's on your mind when you're absorbed in trying to make good art.
The emphasis on 'expressing yourself' comes from the diseased ego-obsession of our culture.
It's not a recipe for boundless joy.
In fact it seems to make people defensive and bad at stuff.
The irony of all this is that John is not advocating that we all have less fun and become really austere, the point is that once you feel yourself really improving, you'll discover a whole new level of fun, a whole different quality of enjoyment (Katie stated this pretty explicitly). The joy IS the challenge.
There's also something in the accepted idea of 'expressing yourself' that assumes that what you are expressing is something static and defined. Who wants to be static and defined? Isn't it always better to be expansive and expanding… you 'forget yourself' in the act of stretching creatively. And that is a good thing.
- Kali Fontecchio said...
Thanks Katie! You're a very inspiring individual!
"I used to beg Bob Clampett to tell me what I was doing wrong so I could get better."
What would he tell you?
- Ted said...
"The uncontrolled growth of an unbalanced, macho, argumentative way of thinking has been harmful."
What would you prefer, Chloe? Discourse has a limited number of modes. You can choose not to have discourse at all (silence or a single view that is the only one that is allowed to be expressed), you can have argumentative discourse, or you can have non-confrontational talking past each other that's almost as useless as no discourse at all. The absence of confrontation implies a tacit agreement by all involved, or that nothing is worth fighting about, or that someone powerful is enforcing a single view. To fail to be argumentative in the face of a contrary opinion is to essentially lay down and say what you think or believe in isn't worth arguing for, or that you are unable to argue for it.
Is that what you want? You don't seem to be on the side of the status quo; do you think an absence of debate will change the status quo? If there is no debate, then all will pray at the altar and believe the lie. Do you believe your faction will provide the winning lie? If what you think is right is not on top now, how will an end to discourse help you? Would you really prefer a quiet life of intellectual slavery or a place where your viewpoint is equally as meaningless as everyone else's?
- JohnK said...
Hey Ted,
these aren't posts about how to argue about things not worth arguing about.
It's about learning to draw so that people take your opinions about drawing seriously.
I gave a huge list of different people with different styles and approaches.
I would love to hear all their opinions and advice about drawing.
I bet most of them advocate skill and would be aghast at what's on TV and in the comic strips today.
If anyone doesn't accept the "status quo" it's the artists who I've featured in the last few posts.
- Chloe Cumming said...
Ted: I'm not arguing for an absence of debate. That was not what I said at all. You took that out of context.
Actually I like productive friction. But not pointless arguing that veers offtopic.
I was trying to say something in favour of the idea of a balancing feminine influence (but perhaps not succeeding in being one)...
- Brian Goss said...
Sorry, I made a major typo and had a brain fart... I meant to say:
Sometimes your creative influences will be the same as your literal influences.
But always, concrete literal knowledge comes first...then creativity.
- Ted said...
J: That's why I made my last post. I don't think it's ever a good idea to stop talking about what is good or bad, but Chloe's post seemed worryingly to implicitly promote the idea that debate should stop and somehow magically everything would be ok. There is no more effective way to change people's minds than to explain why you think one position is right and the other wrong, or why one thing is bad and the other good. But in aesthetics, there is a special danger of letting others tell you what is good or bad; look no further than the general flow of the fine art world in the 20th century. And at the same time I somehow believe the contradictory position that the likes and dislikes of someone whose work an observer admires should be meaningless to the observer except to the extent that it will provide the observer with something the observer defines as of merit.
J & C: The discussion of discussion within a discussion is never off topic for a discussion, and I wouldn't bring it up if I didn't think it was worthwhile.
C: I did not say you argued for the absence of debate (tho I think it was strongly implied); I asked you what your preference would be as you were criticizing debate, while giving my position why intellectual conflict is fundamental. What precisely is this balancing feminine influence you speak of?
- Jorge Garrido said...
>i didn't mean to say i was above needing to learn more, i DEFINITELY do. i havent done enough of the course, i never practice enough, and get rusty, and etc. i've barely drawn in months. My point was supposed to be that i think a lot of people think they don't need to learn more, when they do. people need to be able to recognize their suckiness.
It really makes me feel better knowing there's other people in the same boat as me. I completely suck at drawing, and I know I got a try harder. It also makes me feel good that John says animation schools are unnecessary since my parents are making me go to University. I'm gonna practice those lessons and get really good! Skill is my elusive target, and I hope to attain it.
- I don't really care said...
"Express yourself" and "do your own thing" are 2 platitudes from the 1960's and perhaps not surprisingly you often saw them rendered in fingerpaint.
I steal from the best. I'm not as good as anybody, so I steal what they already did. The art for me is in how well I steal it. Not how well I copy it, necessarily, but how much of the essence I can rob or re-combine. Other people's ideas are often better starting points than my own thoughts.
I'm not really a cartoonist anymore but when I was I had no qualms about drawing like somebody I admired, and as accurately as possible. Some I could touch, like the simpler Preston Blair, and some I could not, like Frazetta, but while you dream of one day having your own brand, the more I compared my own drawings to those of the masters, the more I understood I was not ever gonna just pull my own brand out of my ass. I was only gonna get there by how much I understood and had command of, as an artist and as a thinker.
Since then, non-art has become a lot more popular, as has the notion that skill is a questionable assett. One newspaper cartoonist in a hundred has any skill at all.
Nowadays, thanks to clever new marketing technology, you can in fact pull your own brand right out of your own ass.
I think I am going to open a new trade school that teaches people how to do exactly that, with a 2 -year program. It could be big.
"No Skill? NO PROBLEM!"
- Vanoni! said...
Shawn said: but so many people just want to be polite and say, "it looks good". Well that doesn't help me at all.
I was talking with another cartoonist recently and I told him that one of the worst things to happen to me as an artist was that I received so much blind praise and support coming up. He thought I was just being self-deprecating, but I believe it's true.
With nobody pointing out mistakes or areas of improvement - I had no gumption to grow as an artist.
I knew there was area for improvement - but I didn't go out of my way to achieve it. I thought I was - but I was fooling myself. I'd say it's only been the last couple years or so that I reeeally started applying myself properly. (That means I wasted a LOT of time before that!)
At times, I'm still guilty of studying in a vacuum - but when my mind is in the right place, and I surround myself with talented artists whose egos don't prohibit them from putting a critical eye on their work and mine, it can be a helluva lot of fun to learn.
- Corbett
- The GagaMan(n) said...
My eyes are hurting from the lack of paragraphing.
But yes, we could all do with drawing a lot more than we do, or have time for, if we really want to get good at it. This is where my art will probably just end up being stuck as scribbly mess forever, unless I really kick my arse into gear with it.
As for all this drawing philosophy, I don't really have any right to stick my views in, so I'll shut up =P
- Joel Bryan said...
Chloe- for what it's worth, I get what you're saying and I totally agree. Who wants to be static? Who wants to live in artistic stasis?
And that's what some people seem to be after, no matter how much they claim otherwise. They need to be able to take constructive criticism... hey, they need to be able to take DESTRUCTIVE criticism for that matter, because there's a lot of that out there too.
Also- yeah, discussion is great. Disagreement is great. But as long as it stays on topic and both parties can learn from it. When it gets to the "you said! no I didn't!" phase, it's no longer helpful.
And disagreeing for its own sake is probably the least helpful of all.
- allamort said...
I've been following this blog for a while, but have never commented before. I just wanted to say that this last series of posts has cemented my resolve. I am starting the PB course tonight. Expect to see more from me soon. Thanks guys, you've saved me.
- Raff said...
I can speak as a musician on this whole age-of-amateurism thing which the style-vs-skill thing centers around (my drawings will take another ten years to catch up). Since music is also about aesthetics, structure, skills, appeal and competition for the audience's dollar, I think the arguements will translate well into the art/animation scene now.
Ok, here's my theory: By the 1980's, pop music was starting to feel like a machine. The skills were there, the musicians knew their fancy slash chords and harmony tricks, a catchy melody was paramount, tight playing and a solid groove went without saying, but ultimately it all started to feel like a machine - a predictable product of rules, principles and seasoned veterans.
What was Gen-X's chosen remedy? The lo-fi movement of the early-to-mid 90s. Suddenly bands that sounded like my wack friends practicing in the garage were getting record deals because of the sheer novelty of letting peasants run the kingdom (or a simulation of such). Having had it with the likes of, say, Rush, music fans moved towards anything that was neither hooky nor harmonically dynamic. So the corporations jumped on the bandwagon with their imitations of this new anti-music, the whole musical landscape changed, and suddenly it was cooler to barely know how to play guitar than it was to rival Joe Satriani. They called it irony - the lowest of dorkiness becomes a cool thing, lousy becomes good.
Now let's call the lo-fi movement a type of minimalism for a second. Art regards minimalism as a device that draws attention to raw elements. For example, if there's only bass and drums and a singer, the audience has a heightened awareness of the nuances of the bass and drums and singer, since there's nothing else to pay attention to. But commerce regards minimalism as a way of getting more for less. "All you need is bass and drums and a singer." There goes the orchestra. Why put horn players on tour when you can do a trio?
And then - aha! - the novely of all things minimal wears off but the economic and cultural conditions that produced aforementoned Joe Satriani and Rush got lost while we were listening to Beck. Same way we lost the James Brown concerts when we switched to disco clubs, same way we lost the big swing bands when Elvis and Bill Haley came to the fore.
All because we needed a break and something different.
That's what the jerky Anime and squares-and-triangles flat style and Simpsons/FG are - something different and it happens to be done by lesser means and with lesser skills.
- Ian said...
Great Post Katie... I've been through the grinder at Disney in Sydney Australia. Years of intense, hard exhausting work where I was told exactly what to draw, where to draw it and how to draw it. With next to no prospect of creative intup from me what so ever.
Sound like hell?
(after meeting my wife (Hi Honey)) Its the best thing that ever happened to me. because it forced me to confront these very same issues.
- Kevin W. Martinez said...
Hooray, yet more Grand Canyon-sized generalizations about "how Modern Cartoons and Comics suck". God forbid anyone give any specific examples of Modern cartoons and comics that suck and why, lets just generalize about every contemparary Non-Spumco animation effort.
I love this blog.
- elephantmarchblog said...
Here here
- queefy said...
---Hooray, yet more Grand Canyon-sized generalizations about "how Modern Cartoons and Comics suck". God forbid anyone give any specific examples of Modern cartoons and comics that suck and why, lets just generalize about every contemparary Non-Spumco animation effort.
Saying modern cartoons are bad is just an opinion. But its a fact that they're not as well made as classic cartoons.
- Randy Siplon said...
ted said... J & C: The discussion of discussion within a discussion is never off topic for a discussion, and I wouldn't bring it up if I didn't think it was worthwhile.
My mind has been officially blown. Are you related to Gary Busey by chance?
All kidding aside, I love this post. John, your blog really warms my cockles. Just thought you'd like to know.
- Raff said...
>> Ok, here's my theory: By the 1980's, pop music was starting to blah blah <<<
I wish I could edit that big fat post; I wrote it in the wee hours of the morning and I just noticed my arguements are full of holes. :) By "anti-music" I meant anti-musicianship.
>> God forbid anyone give any specific examples of Modern cartoons and comics that suck and why<<
You're right. So here's one.
Bromwell High
It clearly uses the software's tweening function as a crutch - and there's no proof that it's anything other than a crutch.
Every other facial expression is smug apathy - that's BORING.
The pacing is monotonous.
And the design is ugly and alienating. "But it's ugly on purpose." WHY would anyone do that??? "Beacuse it's a new style and it's a rebellion against the same old slick realistic cartoons" Fine, everyone loves a change of pace, but do you have to replace the old stuff with something so SHALLOW and IGNORANT? "And it's retro too." No it's not. The 60's used minimalism to experiment and put existing skills to different use. On this thing the skills aren't there.
"Yeah, but it's still funny, and that's all that counts." Um...what happened to giving me something that REWARDS PAYING ATTENTION? Do I have to turn half my brain off when I'm watching something? What if I want to completely escape into what I'm watching, details and all?
I could go on forever like this, but it's already been a mountain of text.
- S.G.A said...
Yeah, I feel like what I do is never good enough and what I did last week is garbage.
I feel like I am always pushing for something in my drawing etc.. that I could always do BETTER.
I have to to accept that always wantijng to improve is what keeps me going, keeps me alive.
I don't even know how people view what I do , and I stoipped trying.
The stuff I do that I DON'T like is what other people DO like and vice versa.
So I just strive at for what moves me , and hope to keep working.
And boy, Now I need work.
- David Germain said...
You're right. So here's one.
Bromwell High
Hey, I know some people who animated on that show. Two links on my blog take you to two of them.
True story: after they were done everything, they watched their work when it aired on TV and kept asking each other "Is this funny?"
- Craig D said...
I saw a quote from Robin Williams in this weekend's paper that I wish I had cut out. It went something like, "If you find yourself violating your standards faster than you can lower them, then you have a problem!" Ouch - ain't that the truth!
I was somewhat dissatisfied with my posing and full-figure drawing before this. Now I am in an absolute cartoonist's nightmare panic! Damn you, reality! Damn you to Heck!
Honestly, thanks for the post, Katie!
- Jennifer said...
Hi John!
Katie's post and your post reminded me of something that I read recently.
Recently, I received an illustrated children's book about some of the greatest artists of the last four centuries. I took a look at the chapter on Picasso, and it reminded me of yours and Katie's posts.
The chapter featured Picasso's works from all stages of his life, including his very early works and his later abstract paintings. His early works looked almost exactly like photographs. It reminded me of both posts because it struck me that before Picasso drew the "crazy drawings of people with two heads and three eyes", he knew how to draw still life. He worked on the skill to draw and paint. Then, he honed his style, which was always evolving.
- NARTHAX said...
For basic solid character construction study, it's hard to beat Bill Hanna's 1941 one-off MGM short "Officer Pooch", though the timing is a little slow compared to the point Hanna evolved it later in his career.
- greg oakes said...
wow,... that was well said. thumbs up! ;)
- Donald S. said...
Good comments. I agree. I'm still aspiring up the ladder someway. But I'm getting better and having fun.
This thread is pretty well off the top, I don't really know if i should expect any kind of response to it...but here's a try anyway!
The old animators with a lot of influences - did they do what John K is advising and learn their principles by analyzing and reinterpreting other drawings, or did they have a lot of formal training? I mean - for me, you know, to learn, to get better, should I spend the next few years sitting around copying influences all day and writing out my thoughts on it, or should I bother going to an artschool too and doing a lot of figure drawings and the like, taking sculpture and all the rest, or...what? I'm just kind of lost, that's all - but what you guys are saying makes sense and I'm keen on going with the advice I've read here.
Thanks, I appreciate the help!
God bless you for starting a serious discussion about cartoons!
Katie Rice is wise beyond her tender years. If you're animating a character starting to walk, the 1st thing to do is tip him forward.
Your critical faculties are like your center of gravity & your work is your legs trying to keep up.
Sometimes your critical faculties surge ahead & you have to run to catch up, sometimes your skills overtake your sense of how shitty you still are & you get arrogant & stop moving forward altogether.
But balance isn't about standing still. Why not just lie down if you don't want to move forward?
I don't really care said...
"Nowadays, thanks to clever new marketing technology, you can in fact pull your own brand right out of your own ass.
I think I am going to open a new trade school that teaches people how to do exactly that, with a 2 -year program. It could be big."
Can I get in on this? I've designed some matchbook covers.
As you probably know, once you stop drawing & your ego's not at stake any more, your critical faculties can get so far ahead of you there's nothing left for you but directing.
- Danelectro said...
The problem is that most people think that making animation is just as fun as watching them. I am pretty sure that performing a brain surgery is much more fun that suffering one, but in the animation world, it's the other way around... People confuse having fun with creating fun from scratch. I never met a happy comedian.
- heidi said...
Reading Katie's blog from the beginning you can really see the progression. Ever since I started the animation school I feel I have developed, and it is the best feeling ever. Studying the basics has helped me more than I can describe and I still have a long way to go. All I want is to study from the masters, whether it is renaissance paintings or classic animation and maybe someday I can be as good. Thank you for all this great advice, it's like the best school in the world that I don't have to pay for.


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text:
Injuries and the flu have reared their ugly heads at this point in the season, as it often does, and both had an effect on Thursday's showdown between the Neosho Wildcats and Carl Junction Bulldogs in a varsity wrestling dual at Carl Junction High School.
Injuries and the flu have reared their ugly heads at this point in the season, as it often does, and both had an effect on Thursday's showdown between the Neosho Wildcats and Carl Junction Bulldogs in a varsity wrestling dual at Carl Junction High School.
The Bulldogs had four open classes, and the Wildcats took advantage of the night to rest some starters and get their backups some quality varsity mat time. Oh, and the Wildcats still cruised to a 54-12 victory.
"We wrestled well in the matches we got tonight," Neosho coach Jeremy Phillips said. "We were able to get several of our JV kids varsity mat time tonight, and they stepped in and did very well."
The Wildcats, who have had a busy schedule of late, expect to reap the benefits down the road for getting their youth involved on nights like Thursday.
"With (an) overbooked schedule that I created for that purpose, we have the chance to have our backups ready for the years to come, or, if needed, at any given time like tonight," Phillips said. "We only have one more varsity wrestler we will need to sit so that we stay within the MSHSAA guidelines of 10 duals and five tournaments, or nine duals and six tournaments.
"We chose the latter for more matches, and the opportunity to get as close to 50 (matches), which is the limit before districts."
Both teams were open at 112 pounds and Neosho wrestlers Toby Friend, Nate Rodriguez and Jason Box all picked up open victories.
At 126 pounds, Neosho's River Buttram pinned Lucas Hertzberg in 1:09. Other wins for the Wildcats, with Neosho listed first, were: 145, Kyle Hostetter pinned Mason Markham, 1:32; 160, Garrick Fausett won by decision over Alex McMullen, 6-5; 170, Austin Hailey won by major decision over Calvin Bremmerkamp, 15-0; 182, Jacob Brock pinned Dylan Pyle, 1:09; 195, Ben Elledge pinned Matt Kersey, 1:15; 220, Addison Derryberry won by decision over Taylor Dawdy in overtime.
Other results for the Wildcats were: 120, Brayden Brookman lost to Jeremiah Tyner; 152, Chance Branstetter lost to Nick Koon; 285, Cody Fox lost to Jared Klouse.
There was one junior varsity match in which Neosho's Rexi Elwise lost to Jewell.
The Wildcats (12-1) and ranked No. 2 in state by missouriwrestling.com, are back in action on Tuesday when they host Columbus and Caney (Kan.) at 5:30 p.m. for "Mat Warming," the Wildcats' homecoming event.


text:
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
A wicked case of crotch rot
41 comments:
- Jessica said...
OMFG that's NASTY!!!
- October 28, 2008 at 10:15 PM
- artillerywifecq said...
"that would be you honey" CLASSIC!!! Love it!!! As a tech I see the most horrid stuff. Actually just posted something r/t this today.
- October 30, 2008 at 8:29 PM
- mofo said...
Ew. and I have worked in Ob/Gyn for 5 years. Aren't teenaged girls DUMB!!!
- November 1, 2008 at 11:27 PM
Yes as a teenager you are a bit naive of sex, and other things. It's not that teenaged girls are dumb, teenagers in general need better resourse tools than the 15min prep talk you get in the high school PE class. And parents too should step up and talk to their kids about safe sex practices. Teenagers barely want to study for a test, think they are going to research some stuff online if they don't have it yet??
- November 15, 2008 at 3:21 AM
im sorry but thats disgusting, teens should be more careful and regualry go for tests if they are sexually active... thats leting it g too far
- November 16, 2008 at 4:44 PM
- Maha said...
In the province that I live in, health (including sexuality) are mandatory from grade 5-10. In grade 5, you get the low down on how sexual organs work and how reproduction occurs and the topics get more complex throughout the years. When I was in grade 9 and 10, health and sexuality were tied in with high school biology as well. And it wasn't a watered down version - I remember some fairly graphic and detailed lessons on transmission, prevention and treatments. Public health nurses were also required to teach several lessons.
Currently, the curriculum has expanded to include topics such as substance abuse and personal safety and injury prevention.
- November 16, 2008 at 5:47 PM
- Maha said...
My (long and drawn out) point is this - there is an extensive curriculum and resources available for teens, but like you said Anon, too many teenagers are lazy to seek out the info no matter how easy it is. This goes a bit off topic but it seems that in many cases, teenagers' ignorance is also reflective of parental laziness and personal entitlement.
- November 16, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Not everyone does get enough sex education here. My elementary school had it for grade 7 and 8, but I was pulled out for all of grade 7's because my parents thought I was too young, and most of grade 8's as well. Grade 9 I didn't learn much in school. In grade 11 they showed us some pictures of STD's left untreated, but those who couldn't stand to watch it were free to leave. My mom gave me a talk that lasted a few hours when I was 13 (grade 8), but with all the new phrases and ideas suddenly being poured into my head and no visual aides or even anything written for me to read in more private settings, most of it went right over my head. Basically, her idea of safe sex was no sex at all. It's dirty and it's wrong. I could not have searched for anything on the internet because the only access I had to it was in the school library, and my parents living room. Reasearching anything on sex would not have been acceptable in our house. Getting caught with a condom would have gotten me hours worth of lectures about why I shouldn't be having sex at all.
So not everyone is well educated, but there's a lot that should just be common sense.
- November 20, 2008 at 11:50 PM
this is f**King nasty by, young girls have to learn to watch what their doing, having sex doent make you cool its makes you a slut. im sorry but thats groose
- December 8, 2008 at 9:31 AM
The problem here is not the fact that the girl was having sex, having sex is a very natural and normal thing to do. Yes, she is a teen, but in this day and age we need to open our eyes and understand that teens ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX! The problem is that she was not using protection. Having sex does not make you a slut, having unprotected sex simply makes you dumb. As said before there is enough informaition for these kids to get the picture that they need to use a condom...every time. They simply get caught up in the moment or think they are in "love" and that its okay. It never ever is.
- December 18, 2008 at 7:18 AM
Who are you to judge? Yes, this is a very disturbing situation but this isn't only restricted to teens. I know that adults get into similar, if not worse situations. As for the gynecologists and especially the person that posted this, it is disgusting that you did, and incredibly medically unethical.
- December 31, 2008 at 12:07 AM
- Samantha S. said...
Well there's no point in looking down on her. Educate these young people. Encourage them with sincerity. Since you are blessed to be one of the few people out here who know the most actual facts, take advantage of that. Im 18 and STD free, but most girls my age aren't as lucky. Maybe you dont care about the prevention (wrong feild babe), but being sarcastic and judgemental isnt going to do anything.
- January 14, 2009 at 7:23 PM
woow im a male and its a good thing i use condoms (trojan)pleasure u trust!but also keep my sexual partners low. just one.im also a teen but well educated about sex ed. thanks to high school health teachers! an outside represanitives.From CA1i.
- January 24, 2009 at 2:47 AM
As a fellow nurse, I think the way your condescendingly talking about these teens is wrong. I see it far to often. As hospital employees it is our job not to judge but to educate and care for those placed under our care. We don't know the lives and stories of everyone and it's not our job to find out, but we do know they are sick and that's all we need to know. Perhaps the " gangsta wannabe" and his girlfriend were not so lucky to grow up being taught about these things, and even though it seems like common sense, teenagers often lack that unless they are guided. So my advice as someone who is not a new nurse is...get used to seeing everything and every type of person and you better soon learn not to judge or your going to fail as a nurse. In my years of working trauma I've had patients who just killed an entire family while driving drunk, or a gang member who just shot a little kid during a drive by shooting. You think I'm allowed to judge?? Nope...they recieve the same loving care as the surviving victim in the next room over. If you can't handle that then you better pick an area of nursing such as pallative where it's harder to run into patients you can judge!! It sounds like your enthusiastic about being a nurse which is great, but work on not judging and you should be just fine!
- January 27, 2009 at 12:28 AM
- Mar's Bar said...
I love the comment that say that this post is "medically unethical". Because posting completely anonymous information about diseases and personal cases, just like they have you read in medical school, is unethical right?
Anyways, the issue is not education. Canadian urban cities, especially Toronto, have some of the highest mandatory standards of sexual education available. For her to be this ignorant about her own sexual health proves that not only are people my age (I'm in my very early 20s) have the mentality that they are someone else's problem. Yes, if they get an STD, who cares because modern medicine and free health care will take care of me so that I don't have to buy a condom. This mentality is what is driving some young people and older people alike to be so nonchalant to the realities of their health. We live in a society that gratifies the now and blatently tells us to seek out instant pleasure, and that worrying about the consequences is someone else's problem. I'm not preeching that this girl is the victim of societial attitudes but rather that she chooses to live out those attitudes becasue she is too lazy to think about her own health and the consequences of her actions. If she is old enough to have sex with multiple partners, her health should be in her own hands, and so should the consequences of her actions. There is no better education then the one that you are able to provide yourself. And if you are too lazy and inept to even take care of your own health, then it is a failure of your own doing, not the state or its educational system.
- January 27, 2009 at 6:35 PM
i hope you're doing well in your nursing career. im reading your blog because our upcoming lectures are based on STDs.
...and now ill go back to finishing my reading nite nite
- February 9, 2009 at 1:00 AM
im a teenager & if thats the way you talk about STI & teenagers, then i dont think you should bother working at the Ob/Gyn your supose to be there to help not judge.
- February 10, 2009 at 6:20 PM
Safe sex is no sex. "A condom was made for protecting agenst pregnancy not agenst STDs" is what my teacher told me... Not even that is prevented sometimes. People shouldn't have sex till they are with the person that they plan on being with for the rest of their life. Sadly, not everyone thinks the same way as I do... Wouldn't life be great if people did? (Then again I'm called wierd by alot of my friends... lol)
Also... that pic is really nasty... but, um... great story...?
Just a little more info, I'm a teenage girl aswell, and I'm not "dumb." Great job thinking we all are the same, Mofo. >_> You should really work on your people skills...
- February 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM
ok so u say ur not a slut well honey having sex with a COUPLE OF GUYS makes u a SLUT ok im sorry to be so honest but i had too we get what we get because we look for it so thats why u got the disease...hope u get well soon
- February 20, 2009 at 9:33 PM
YOUR sooo stupid. having sex witha couple guys does not make us a slut. having sex with SEVERAL guys maybe yes.
but what about the f..king guys.
they prolly skrew 5x more people than girls do
and ur dumb this girl (although niiave ) was willing to take the medss. the GUY was the one who didnt take the medication after the first time he was diagnosed and knowingly had unprotected sex with this girl even though he knew she would be infected. to me hes the discusting one..
People get stis is not uncommon
she said she had sex with a few guys. she didnt say they were a few randoms.
- February 24, 2009 at 12:46 AM
- LilQt1389 said...
First of all yall I though you all were doctors. What happened to patient confidentiality? Being professional? Also you are suppose to be there to help not judge. Not all teenage girls are "ignorant" like ya'll think. Some maybe but not all. Just like adults they some of them do the same thing.. HA actually most do worse then this girl. I understand this is your opinion and you have the right to speak your mind but you shouldn't judge group just because some, okay half, of them are that way that would be like saying all white people are stuck up or all blacks are niggers! You would be writting that would you? NO! Because it would be offensive and racist just like this is, exspecially to me seeing as how I am only 16.
It's reasons like this why most teenage girl don't come to ya'll to talk. ya'll are to critical and are always making assumptions. They don't feel cofortable coming to ya'll and that is when stuff like this happens becuase they have no one to talk to before they have sex and they deffinatly don't to come after because of the way ya'll act. Then come when they have to because they know if they don't something will seriously go wrong with them, and this is how you treat them. WHEN IT IS YOUR FAULT!
Oh, and if you have a prolem with this feel free to e-mail me.
- March 7, 2009 at 6:20 PM
I don't think patient confidentiality is an issue here, they haven't exactly published a name and address have they?!
and my take on this is she's not a slut, or dumb, she's just 16. it happens. and what should be done next is that she needs to understand why this has happened, and so why it is important to a) get them both treated (and properly) and b) use protection in the future. at least she's trying to do something about it, there's lots out there that don't.
- March 10, 2009 at 9:28 AM
The individual who posted this, should not even remotely be in the medical field. To lack this amount of respect towards a patient is appalling. No wonder most people are uncomfortable and too shy to seek help with any condition or problem revolving around our privates. You are the perfect example of why people fail to care for themselves with such issues.
You look down upon these two teens due to their supposed lack of class and whatnot, yet you seem to have quite a bit less. Perhaps get another career, one that doesnt require a conscience, kindness and respect. Get over yourself.
- March 19, 2009 at 10:14 PM
o yeh flipping blame the teenagers..you were all once one..we are not stupid, dumb or lazy! just embarressed and scared!! if its such an issue then do something about it yourselves instead of sitting on here with no lives! and look IM A TEENAGER.. RESEARCHING AN STD..theres gotta be one in a million tho aye! self centered idiots!
- April 16, 2009 at 11:01 AM
- April 16, 2009 at 11:03 AM
- Jessica said...
I can't believe she would say that she wasn't a slut. Being a slut has nothing to do with getting an STI or STD.
I am 19. I've slept with 2 guys in my life. Both of whom I was with for over a year. I am engaged to one atm. I made them use condoms for the longest time. I have not contracted anything.
Needless to say, I have had yearly and sometime bi-yearly paps since I turned 15. The women in my family have had a medical history of polyps growing in the vajayjay. (I thought it was cool that you used that word, cuz that's what I say.) I haven't yet though. No STD's or STI's, no pregnancies, and no polyps. I thank God everyday.
- April 22, 2009 at 1:24 PM
I don't think that the fact she had sex with a few people is the problem i mean before you settle down with the right one you could of had 3 or 4 serious relationships, technically you've had sex with a few people. It's just she's so very young. At that age many young girls date guys that are older, the guys pretends to protect them and show them the world and the girl gets swept away with it all. She obviously had trust in this guy and i honestly think that we should all be very upset with him. She is still a baby and im sure she'll learn from her mistakes. Even if she doesn't and she is one of those girls you see in skimpy clothes having sex with anyone, what does it have to do with all of us. You can't save everyone and getting in a tizzy and argueing with strangers on a blog isn't going to solve the many issues in this world. People need to mind their own bussiness and worry about their own sexual health and that of the people they know and care about. Who knows one of you lot could claim to have sex with 1 or 2 people and still have an undetected STI, so don't judge. oh and don;'t be mad at the person who posted this blog, if you read it properly it said these pictures and stories have been changed so that they aren't that of the patients. i doubt very much that during the treatment the other doctor said oh yes go ahead and take a picture of this to put on your blog. do you know of a doctor that takes a picture of your body parts in exams???
- April 28, 2009 at 7:45 AM
actually the doctors can take pictures. When you go to the e.r they make you sign a form that it is ok to take pictures, video ect.
for whatever legitament reasons they may have, although they usually never do.
- April 28, 2009 at 11:48 AM
I'm in that age between the ripe teenage years and the actual responsible adult years. I've read all these posts and have seen the many sides to the conversation, but I was a little put out about some peoples comments.
First off, some people automatically blame the sex education topic. I gladly got all the knowledge I needed from my parents, schools, teachers, etc. and so did most of my classmates -- and yet they still ended up using little to no protection. The problem in this blog isn't a confidentiality agreement or anything, it's just there to announce (in the blogger's own words) that there are more and more teens out there with these problems.
Some people just suffer from a lack of common sense, others are totally in the dark about these topics, but not many. A lot of people my age just 'knew' that something like this would never happen to them. We hear about it and know the consequences of not using a condom or other precautions, but it's like hearing about someone getting raped... a lot of girls think, 'that's not going to happen to me.' I know that because I used to be one of them. You think you can risk it, until you happen to stumble upon a blog with pictures like this and suddenly you know that it can happen to anyone that's not conscious about their own sexual acts.
It even implies that the couple knew about it, but the girl 'hadn't been compliant with her meds'. That's nothing to blame on lack of education -- that's an issue of 'if you don't take your medicine, you're not going to get better.'
With all the media and talk about these diseases and the prevention, not to mention all the condom commercials that raid the television, it's hardly intelligent to automatically state 'lack of knowledge' as the key cause of this. That's kind of like blaming someone else for your actions and your responsibility.
- April 30, 2009 at 1:15 PM
I know in this situation its the young womans fault but what about those of us whom was engaged for 5 years. the person we are with starts using drugs tries to kill us rapes us and we leave him to find out we have 5 stds and we didnt even know he was cheating on us? how do u deal with somin like this ithas ruined my life to know the above story i just typed is me i loved him and he passd this to me and i feel so dirty. only person i had ever slept with. and when ur loyal to one person 5 years and the marriage date is set and then he rapes u there is no protection.
- May 15, 2009 at 1:04 AM
first of all, do you blame teenagers for not coming to see doctors and nurses after theyve read ths article becuase tbh i wouldnt either, you feel like your just going to get judged not helped. not all teenagers are dumb just swept away in tht moment of madness if your with a older guy, as the older guy is most likely more experienced then they should be more responsible and use protection. you feel daft telling them to wait and put on a condom cause you think there going to just laugh at you and assure you theres nothing to worry about.
i speak from personal experience witha older person.
not all teenagers can be DUMB if they are spending their time researching STI'S on this blog so you reli do need to sort your opinions out and stop judging people by their looks and help them as your a nurse they comw to you for hep not to be judged!!!
- May 19, 2009 at 2:22 PM
- winter said...
It is for emergency room doctors/nurses like you that i lost my baby because of.
All of them had an attitude with me they sent me home the first night, i am.. was 3 months pregnant bleeding worse than a normal period and having clots as big as a golf ball coming out. They sent me home! Then tell me there is nothing they can do for me i was stupid for coming up there. Until the head doctor comes in gives me a sonogram and tells me my baby is dead. Go back to school but first please take a class to learn how to treat people . Idk what they teach in nursing school but if they teach all of you to act like this..
What the hell is this worl coming to.
- May 19, 2009 at 10:03 PM
- piotrrcola said...
Great post, thanks. I was looking for a unique way to remember Chlamydia by and I stumbled across this.
- June 22, 2009 at 8:21 PM
You call yourself a nurse and your talking like this? You seem highly uneducated and need to understand the responsibilities of a nurse or anyone who works with cases such as this. You are by far the worst nurse I have ever come across!
- June 23, 2009 at 8:01 PM
I think that criticizing her education and blaming all E.R. nurses for the death of a baby (and you all are giving her sh*t for making generalizations?! you have got to be kidding me!) is completely besides the point. this is a RANT. if you don't appreciate what nurses really think, don't read it. no one is forcing you to agree with her. The amount of stupidity nurses see on a regular basis (ESPECIALLY E.R. nurses) is astounding and to believe that each and every nurse can look at each and every patient in each and every context in a completely non-judgemental way is absolutely, 100% unrealistic. Nursing will test your faith in humanity and it will make you realize that people are stupider than you could ever imagine. If you left a commenting judging the author of this blog for being judgemental then you need to realize the absolute hypocrisy of what you wrote.
- December 28, 2009 at 2:05 AM
I love how half the flamers didn't notice that the photo is from Wikipedia.
They're right that sex education is worthless-nonexistent in a lot of places... However, you made it sound like the girl had already been prescribed antibiotics the same time her gangsta was, and wasn't taking them. FAIL.
Great blog! (Found you via Dr. Grumpy.)
- January 13, 2010 at 7:47 PM
Seriously.. FUCK YOU if you got a problem with the way people dress you can go fuck yourself I mean really? "Gangsta Wannabe"? Get a fucking real story you fucking idiot
- February 22, 2010 at 11:30 PM
That's actually a picture of someone's throat, not a vagina. See the teeth?
- March 4, 2010 at 3:16 PM
- viagra online said...
That just disgusting! I don't really know what is that picture of, but I feel like barfing right away
- July 20, 2010 at 5:57 PM
- Musician Cafe said...
That's what she gets for having sex with niggers!
- August 11, 2014 at 12:25 AM
i use undiluted javex chlorine bleach for mine
- May 23, 2016 at 2:49 PM


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text:
Family pictures. Tax papers. Computer games. Those are just some of the odd items staff members from the Smyrna Public Library tend to find stuffed in the pages of books donated to the library. However, none of these items come anywhere close to the surprise found in a donated book last week.
Smyrna Library Director Bev Hirt said the staff was going through a box of donated books the night of Dec. 3 when suspected marijuana leaves were found in a book about plants.
"This is the first time I've seen anything like this and we've seen some strange things, but not this," Hirt said.
Hirt said at first her staff wasn't completely sure if the leaves were marijuana; she thought marijuana had five leaves while this one had seven. So Hirt asked her husband, who is a retired Dover police officer and he confirmed.
Since there were children in the library, Hirt decided to lock up the book with a plan to go to Smyrna Police the following morning. She didn't want to cause a scene at the library.
"We took it into police the next morning," Hirt said. "We couldn't just throw it in the trash because that's not protocol. Whenever we find drugs, the protocol is to call the police."
Lt. Norman Wood said later in the week that all the police department could do was take possession of the leaves and destroy them since there's no way of knowing who made the donation.
Hirt said the book was in a box of donations dropped off earlier Dec. 3, but she doesn't know who made the donation. When donations are made at a busy time, Hirt said the donations are just put aside. However, she did say it looked as if the leaves had been pressed in the book for quite some time as the leaves were dry and fragile.
While Hirt got a laugh out of the donation, she said the donation could be used as a cautionary tale.
"We find lots of things people leave in books," Hirt said.
From using family photos as bookmarks to old checks, Hirt has seen it all. If the library staff can find a name, they'll even try to return the found goods.
However, Hirt noted that a lot of people put books out during yard sales and she suggests looking through books before doing so. If personal information such as that on a tax paper is left in a book that's sold, Hirt said this is an easy way to be a victim of identity theft.
With that said, Hirt still thinks the whole ordeal is funny.
"We don't know who did this but the person who did it, they'll see this and get a laugh out of it," Hirt said.
Email Jennifer Dailey at email@example.com.


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I wish someone would explain to me why people in this country that is so economically distressed voted for a candidate who promised to keep them in poverty by pursuing failed socialist policies that are destroying this once-great nation.
Let the government give out more free stuff to keep it this way, and it's getting worse, because it's a matter of "tell me what you want to hear, not the way it really is."
There really wasn't much difference between either of the presidential candidates.
I'm an Independent and worked all my life. I see what's going on around me and it doesn't look good.


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Since opening its doors seven years ago, the Children's Advocacy Center has seen a 59 percent increase in the number of cases handled in Bristol County of children who have been abused or sexually assaulted, said Michelle Loranger, the agency's executive director.
EDITOR'S NOTE: The Taunton Daily Gazette has committed the entire month of April to special coverage in honor of Child Abuse Prevention Month — an ongoing series of stories as well as a daily fact or prevention tip. We urge our readers to educate themselves about child abuse, ask questions and perhaps, share their personal stories.
If child abuse has touched your life, we would love to hear how your family healed — and better yet, what advice you would offer to parents and caregivers today. Please call Editor in Chief Lynne Sullivan at 508-676-2534 or email firstname.lastname@example.com.
We want our readers to learn, interact and support one another. Our hope is that we can prevent other children from being hurt.
TAUNTON — Since opening its doors seven years ago, the Children's Advocacy Center has seen a 59 percent increase in the number of cases handled in Bristol County of children who have been abused or sexually assaulted, said Michelle Loranger, the agency's executive director.
And in a way, she said, that's not wholly negative.
"Word gets out nowadays. It's the Sandusky effect," she said, referring to the former Penn State defensive coach in prison for his conviction on 45 counts of child sexual abuse.
News media coverage of high-profile sex-assault cases, Loranger said, has helped spread the word that victims or parents of young victims of sexual or physical assault should contact either police or an advocacy center like the Fall River-based CAC.
The Children's Advocacy Center of Bristol County provides direct services to children and adults with severe intellectual disabilities who have been sexually assaulted, physically abused or a witness to violence.
Victims are afforded a safe environment where they are interviewed by a trained forensic interviewer.
"We coordinate the investigation, but we also provide information and education to schools and police," she said.
Loranger said the number of cases since the CAC began operating seven years ago have reached 2,550, with 450 cases in 2013.
The message she wants to deliver to victims and their families is to "be courageous and come forward."
Child sexual assault, Loranger said, is "a very complex issue, and we help navigate those complexities."
The CAC serves four urban centers: Taunton, Fall River, New Bedford and Attleboro.
Of the 20 municipalities it serves the highest reported number of cases, in descending order, have been New Bedford, Fall River and Taunton.
Loranger said the number of cases are split fairly evenly by thirds for children up to age 8, ages 9 to 12 and ages 13 to 18.
Sexual assaults account for 94 percent of cases handled by the CAC, she said, with the rest being victims of physical attacks or homicide.
Loranger said she is in close contact with police departments, the Department of Children and Families and the DA's office. She also stays in touch with Attleboro-based New Hope Inc., which is a first-responder for women who have been raped or assaulted.
Referrals among those entities are key to aiding victims, she said.
The court process whereby a child is required to testify about an assault, she said, "can be incredibly trying."
"It's a very tough process — it's so cumbersome," Loranger said.
Oftentimes, she said, a child victim is threatened or intimidated by an adult attacker. A boy or girl who has been sexually assaulted will also hesitate to report the crime out of a sense of shame.
As for the attackers, Loranger said at least 90 percent are a close or relative.
Only 1 percent, she said, fall into the category of "stranger danger."
"The old story of someone jumping out from behind the bushes and raping kids is a myth," Loranger said.
Taunton police Detective Lynne Pina, a 25-year veteran of the department, has been handling child sexual assault cases during her nearly three years as a detective.
Pina credits CAC for facilitating the process of collecting information that helps victims and holds suspects accountable.
"They (CAC) get the victim into counseling and provide the family with support so we don't have to worry about that. It allows us to focus on the investigation," Pina said.
Pina urges minors, which now includes people who are 18, to contact either police, DCF or the CAC.
"Just seek help," she said.
Pina said the element of embarrassment is a hurdle. In some cases, she said, a child will confide in a school counselor or friend who in turn calls police.
"It's a team approach between investigators, prosecutors therapists, a medical team and the family," she said.
Pina said the length of time between an arrest and a court arraignment can be frustrating. Of the 30 cases of child sexual assault she has handled only five or six have gone to trial. All of those cases, she said, resulted either in a dismissal or a guilty plea entered by a defense attorney.
But she said she can't underestimate the element of cooperation between police and children advocacy centers.
"We have a greater success rate when the CACs and other agencies are involved," she said.
Police keep in contact with a forensic interviewer outside the room where a victim is interviewed via an earpiece.
Taunton Mayor Thomas Hoye Jr. this week presented a proclamation recognizing April as Sexual Assault Awareness and Child Abuse Prevention Month.
Loranger said the mayor's simple gesture is significant because it helps spread the message that child abuse is a problem that is not going away any time soon.
"The more we talk about it the more awareness there is," Loranger said.


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Ross Kenseth, son of Nascar champion Matt Kenseth, joins the field for All-Stars Mercy "Masters of the Pros" I-44 Late Model Showcase at Lebanon I-44 Speedway
Lebanon, Mo. - With the NASCAR season a little over a month away at Lebanon I-44 Speedway, track officials were excited to announce Monday that 19-year-old Ross Kenseth, son of 2003 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series champion and two-time Daytona 500 winner Matt Kenseth, has committed to race in the JEGS/CRA All-Stars' Mercy 'Masters of the Pros' 144 on Saturday, May 18. The touring series visits Missouri's only asphalt oval and only NASCAR facility for a jaw-dropping minimum $8,000 to win, $600 to start late model showcase highlighted by the winner receiving a signature green jacket similar to the one donned by the champion of golf's The Masters event in Augusta, Ga.
"When we put this event together, this type of talent was what we were hoping to attract," Lebanon I-44 Speedway promoter Kevin Greven said. "Ross is an extremely talented and likable young man who will be gunning for a huge payday in mid-May. Everyone's excited to see him commit to race with us, and it only adds to the prestige of what is already becoming one of our most-anticipated events in some time."
Greven noted that even more well-known drivers were considering throwing their hat into the ring and attempting to win the highest-paying event of its class during the 2013 season.
Ross Kenseth has followed in the footsteps of his famous father, jumping into a late model in 2007 at the age of 14 and recording a Big 8 Series championship in just his third season. Since then, the Clemson University student has moved into the super late model ranks and out of his father's shadow, garnering ASA Midwest Tour rookie of the year honors in 2010 and notching eight wins during the 2010 and 2011 seasons, including the prestigious Red, White and Blue State Championship at Wisconsin International Raceway in Kaukauna, Wis., the same speed plant where his father cut his teeth growing up.
Kenseth has a strong chance to be in the running for the green jacket at the end of the race, boasting wins in several high-powered events during the 2012 season including the All-American 400 in Nashville, Tenn., the Winchester 400 in Winchester, Ind., and the Red Bud 300 in Anderson, Ind. With his victories at the Winchester 400 and All-American 400, Kenseth became just the second driver in history to post wins in the races held on back-to-back weekends, joining Midwest racing legend Butch Miller.
While Kenseth remains focused on earning his degree in mechanical engineering at Clemson, the third-generation driver has expressed interest in making the leap to the big leagues of NASCAR much like his father did in the mid-'90s. The rising star will pilot his signature No. 25 Blain's Farm & Fleet Toyota super late model 25 times during the 2013 season, adding former NASCAR driver and fellow Wisconsin touring star Kelly Bires to his Generation 3 Motorsports team as crew chief.
"The Kenseth names carries a lot of respect within Midwest, and national, racing circles," Greven said. "Adding a well-respected third-generation driver like Ross to our field helps provide motivation for local drivers to show their worth for this event, while offering incentive to other pro late model stars to join the field for our inaugural Mercy 'Masters of the Pros' 144. This event is going to get our 2013 season off to a quick start."
Greven said that with the rules package that the JEGS/CRA All-Stars Tour employs, local late model drivers will be able to enter the event and defend their home track. Around 35-40 cars, including 20 or so series regulars, are expected for the pro late model showcase.
The series will be running in conjunction with two Lebanon I-44 Speedway NASCAR Weekly Racing classes. Greven is currently in the process of finalizing the 2013 schedule for release and will be announcing those divisions soon.


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|Episode Description
|Thursday, May 2, 2013 - 3:30 AM
"Kati Marton: Conversations from the Sun Valley Writers' Conference"
Marcia Franklin talks with author and former journalist Kati Marton. During the interview, taped at the 2011 Sun Valley Writers' Conference, Franklin talks with Marton about her experience researching her most recent work, Enemies of the People. The book chronicles Marton's search to learn more about her parents, who were imprisoned by the Hungarian government during the Cold War for their work as reporters for American news outlets. G
|More on PLUS (MT)
|No upcoming shows in database


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Locate homes for sale in Wayne, NJ on homesforsaleinmontclair.com. Our listings are provided by the best real estate professionals in Wayne. All our Wayne homes for sale provide pictures and many include virtual tours to help you find the perfect house in Wayne for you and your family. Just starting your search? All of the Wayne real estate professionals featured on our website have been selling houses in Wayne for many years. If you would like additional information about any of the Wayne homes for sale, be sure to contact a Wayne Realtor.
Michael Abramson
Copyright ©2018 NewPoint Franchisor, LLC. All Rights Reserved. | Terms and Conditions | Privacy Policy
Information deemed reliable but not guaranteed. All measurements are approximate.


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By now you understand that sleep is crucial for your health. Sleeping allows your body to relax and to obtain renewed. However, did you understand that your mattress contributes to the quality of sleep you get every night?
If you purchase a low-quality mattress, you will not enjoy quality sleep at night. Have you heard about the Helix mattress? You will note that this mattress is made up of 3 layers. This makes it be 10 inches high. At first, it was popular in Canada. Nevertheless, it has actually become preferred in many countries nowadays.
Obtain $50 Off Helix mattress with discount coupon "CLARITY50" Or $125 Off A Mattress + One Other Product With Coupon "CLARITY125".
You will note that this mattress normally has the following features:
• A foam convenience layer.
• A cool cover
• Excellent motion transfer
• Enhanced breathability
• Canadian-made.
This mattress would be perfect for those individuals who generally sleep on their sides. Some people typically prefer sleeping facing upwards or downwards. This mattress may not be perfect for you. This mattress has its benefits and drawbacks. These consist of:
All of us like comfort when sleeping. In this case, you need to choose this mattress due to the fact that it is not too firm. This can make you delight in quality sleep in the evening. This mattress is perfect for those people who live somewhat softer bed mattress. These who like sleeping on their sides can opt for this mattress. Other benefits consist of:.
Everyone wishes to get his/her value for the money invested. Endy mattress can readily be delivered at a relatively lower cost. This implies that you do not have to break the bank in order to buy this mattress. If you are a trader, you may even enjoy more profits given that you will not spend a lot of loan buying it. The shipping time is 3-10 days. The good news is that you will not sustain any shipping expense.
If the mattress does not please you, you can return it to the makers. Fortunately is that one can be reimbursed his/her money in good time.
This mattress does not just have its pros however also has some cons. These consist of:.
You will keep in mind that some client would choose to oversleep a mattress that are basically firm. However, this mattress is various. It is typically very soft compared with other bed mattress. Those individuals who like company bed mattress might not like it.
It is also not perfect for stomach sleepers.
If you generally rest on your stomach when sleeping, you should choose a mattress that is more firm. In this case, Endy mattress may not be perfect for you.
Have you become aware of Helix mattress? This mattress is perfect due to the fact that you can customize it.
In addition, it does not cost a lot of money. You will note that the quality of products integrated with complete customization flexibility makes it an ideal option for you. The good news is that you can tailor it the method you want.
In addition, it comes at an inexpensive rate. You can easily customize it on either side. This indicates that your partner will take pleasure in ideal comfort when sleeping. Helix mattress is the ultimate service for you. You must buy it today. Purchase Helix mattress today and you will enjoy a more comfy sleep.
Obtain $50 Off Helix mattress with discount coupon "CLARITY50" Or $125 Off A Mattress + One Other Product With Coupon "CLARITY125".
Endy Sleep launched in 2015 by Mike Gettis and investor Rajen Ruparell.[2][3][4] With its headquarters and showroom in Toronto, the mattresses are manufactured in Canada.[5][6][7] Endy Sleep is Canada's largest direct online-only mattress store.[8]
The company sells a memory foam gel-infused mattress with a hypoallergenic cover that is shipped to the consumer's home.[9] The foam is temperature-sensitive, accommodating the cold Canadian winters while still maintaining their comfort and support throughout the warm summer months. They offer the mattress in six sizes with a free 100-day trial period[10][11] and a 10-year warranty.
Memory foam consists mainly of polyurethane as well as additional chemicals increasing its viscosity and density. It is often referred to as "viscoelastic" polyurethane foam, or low-resilience polyurethane foam (LRPu). The foam bubbles or 'cells' are open, effectively creating a matrix through which air can move. Higher-density memory foam softens in reaction to body heat, allowing it to mold to a warm body in a few minutes. Newer foams may recover more quickly to their original shape.[1]
Memory foam was developed in 1966 under a contract by NASA's Ames Research Center to improve the safety of aircraft cushions. Ames scientist Chiharu Kubokawa and Charles A. Yost of the Stencel Aero Engineering Corporation were major contributors to this project. The temperature-sensitive memory foam was initially referred to as "slow spring back foam"; Yost called it "temper foam".[2] Created by feeding gas into a polymer matrix, the foam has an open-cell solid structure that matches pressure against it, yet slowly springs back to its original shape.[3]
A mattress is a large, rectangular pad for supporting the reclining body, designed to be used as a bed or on a bed frame, as part of a bed. Mattresses may consist of a quilted or similarly fastened case, usually of heavy cloth, that contains hair, straw, cotton, foam rubber, etc., or a framework of metal springs.[1] Mattresses may also be filled with air[1] or water.
Mattresses are usually placed on top of a bed base which may be solid, as in the case of a platform bed, or elastic, e.g. with an upholstered wood and wire box spring or a slatted foundation. Popular in Europe, a divan[2] incorporates both mattress and foundation in a single upholstered, footed unit. Divans have at least one innerspring layer as well as cushioning materials. They may be supplied with a secondary mattress and/or a removable "topper." Mattresses may also be filled with air or water, or a variety of natural fibers, such as in futons. Kapok is a common mattress material in Southeast Asia, and coir in South Asia.


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Difference between revisions of "Wikitravel:Don't tout"
Revision as of 15:37, 4 December 2011
In many countries business owners hire touts to solicit customers. Touts go to train stations, airports, or open plazas and urge travelers to visit their employers' business.
Wikitravel specifically strives to avoid being an "advertising brochure" for any business, city, or service. Business employees, like everyone, are welcome to add information to Wikitravel, but we're making a travel guide, not a business brochure, so Wikitravel should not be used as a tool for advertising.
Identifying touting
Edits might be reverted as touting if any of the following guidelines aren't followed:
Contributing constructively
Guidelines for business owners
If you own a business or work for a marketing company you should expect that your edits will come under more scrutiny that those contributed by travelers. As noted previously, business employees, like everyone, are welcome to add information to Wikitravel, but anything seen as advertising is likely to be removed. Additionally, because the goals of creating a travel guide often differ from those of hotel chains, tourism boards, and other business entities contributors should be aware that there are no guarantees that even properly-formatted listings will always be kept in Wikitravel guides. To make a contribution that is less likely to be removed:
Hotel marketers
Wikitravel gets numerous contributions each day attempting to market hotel chains. As noted earlier, Wikitravel has no interest in marketing - this is a site for travelers, not hotel owners - so accounts that add multiple hotel listings that do not meet the guidelines above should unfortunately expect to see those contributions reverted, and in the worst case repeated violations of this policy may lead to blocking of the contributor's account and possibly blacklisting of the business in question.
In addition to the guidelines above, note that hotel marketers must format listings correctly. Other editors will fix mistakes made by contributors who add only one or two listings, but if you are adding multiple listings then it is up to you to make sure they adhere to the Wikitravel style guidelines. You must include full information, including price ranges, a properly formatted address (do not include city/state/zip) and a useful description of the business, otherwise your contributions will probably be removed.
Good. The following is an example of a good business listing. It is properly formatted, includes a price range, and has a description that provides useful information for a traveler:
See also


text:
Selecting your vehicle's make, model, and year allows us to display only parts and items specific to your car's model and year.
Part# C240450
Mfg# GS401-10450B
Be the First to Review
OPGI Price: $479.99
Part Type: (P) High Performance, designed to improve performance
Years: 1968-1972
Sold As: PAIR
2018 LeMans Catalog Page: 392
All drop-shipped orders must be prepaid. Rates vary depending upon weight.
QA1's single or double adjustable front coil-over conversion shocks feature a forged and machined aluminum shock body that has been threaded for the ultimate in ride weight adjustability. Each shock body is also clear-anodized for award-winning looks and durability. Specially designed conical springs come with each kit, allowing for use of the factory upper spring pocket, while the lower portion rides on plates with the shock body. Choose either single or double adjustable shocks depending on your needs. The single adjustable series provides 24 positions that simultaneously adjusts both compression and rebound with one knob. Double adjustable shocks offer a much wider range with separate knobs for compression and rebound. Each kit is designated by vehicle type as well as total front end weight for the best ride quality possible.


text:
Friday, 1 May 2015
need a blog tutorial
Posted by knowledge seeker at 06:47 No comments:
Subscribe to: Posts (Atom)
Knowledge is for sharing. Let it grows. The more you share, the more you learn and in the end you become a better person. InsyaAllah. How can I find happiness and peace in life? All this is by sharing or in concert with like minded people and if they are none find some and convert them into your line and share peace and happiness among them. I am a student of the universe, a seeker of knowledge, a lover of learning.


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Doctor Robert, Beatles Tribute band plays Dolores
Doctor Robert, the Beatles tribute band from Crested Butte, Colo., will perform a show on Saturday, Feb. 2, from 8:30 to 11:30 p.m. at the Dolores River Brewery, 100 N. 4th St., Dolores. Doctor Robert is a new generation of Beatles tribute bands with a commitment to the accurate reproduction of over 100 songs of The Beatles' repertoire. Doctor Robert plays extended sets of music ranging from "Please Please Me" to "Abbey Road." Their high-energy shows are full of Beatles magic, as the band loves the challenge of re-creating even the most demanding musical compositions live onstage. Doctor Robert brings playful enthusiasm and a fresh sound to the classic music and genius of the Beatles. To learn more about the band, go to www.doctorroberttribute.com.
M-CHS Theater Department to perform 'Macbeth'
The Montezuma-Cortez High School Theater Department proudly presents Shakespeare's "Macbeth" at 7 p.m. on Friday and Saturday, Feb. 1 and 2, with a 1 p.m. matinee on Saturday, Feb. 2. The show at the high school auditorium will be performed in the style of film noir, classic black-and-white gangster movies of the 1940s. The language will remain Shakespearean, but the look is entirely black and white with lots of shadows, fog, and tommy-guns. Tickets are $8 for adults, $5 for students and seniors, and kids under 5 are free. Visit www.mchsdrama.org or call 565-3722 ext 2198 for reservations.


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Red Sox - 000 001 410 - 6 14 1Dice did not pitch quite as well as his line might suggest (8-4-1-3-4, 106), but his infield mates turned four double plays behind him to limit any possible damage.
White Sox - 000 010 001 - 2 5 0
Matsuzaka retired the side in order only twice -- in the sixth and seventh innings. Yet he never faced more than five batters in an inning -- and that happened only once.
The big bat belonged to David Ortiz, who went 3-for-5, with two singles, a double, a run scored and three RBI. His bases-loaded (and bases-clearing) double to deep left-center was the key blow of the night as it increased Boston's lead from 2-1 to 5-1.
Jacoby Ellsbury was 3-for-4, with two singles and a home run; J.D. Drew walked three times from the leadoff spot; and Dustin Pedroia singled twice, giving him a hit in 28 consecutive road games. Kevin Youkilis and Mike Lowell also singled twice.
The Rays beat the Mariners 8-7 in 11 innings. The Angels scored eight runs in the eighth inning to pound the Yankees 11-4. We stay 3.5 GB, New York drops to 7.5 GB.
Daisuke Matsuzaka (3.04, 146 ERA+) / Jose Contreras (4.60, 97 ERA+)
Will Mike Lowell (.202/.265/.277 since July 1 and clearly playing hurt) get a day off?
Will Terry Francona move Jason Bay (.400/.471/.633 in a Red Sox uniform) up in the lineup?
Will Dustin Pedroia hit safely in his 28th straight road game?
Will the Red Sox find their bats and pound Contreras (just off the DL after right elbow tendinitis) as they did in their last meeting (7.1-10-10-3-2, including a Julio Lugo grand slam)?
Also: Yankees/Angels at 3:45 PM and Rays/Mariners at 10 PM.


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Leeds are waiting with interest the developments at Reading this weekend regarding the future of defender Sam Sodje.
Reading who also lost out in the Play offs recently are due to meet with the 29 year old defender later this week to decide on his future at the Madejski Stadium.
Sodje joined Leeds on loan in March making seven appearances and became hugely popular with the fans in his short spell for his no nonsense defending.
Reading released their player released list last week with Sodje`s name not on it.
Sodje didn`t play a game for Reading in the 2008-09 season mainly due to a serious knee injury but his future at the club was undecided last week due to his involvement with Leeds in the Play Offs.
One of the players Reading did release last week was ex Leeds defender Michael Duberry.
Vital Leeds United!
Vital Leeds United is a fast growing Leeds United fan site, with the sole aim of becoming the #1 unofficial website for Leeds United fans everywhere.
The site is regularly updated with news and views regarding all the current events at Elland Road, alongside a fully interactive message forum and regularly looks at the clubs past. Vital Leeds offers everything that a Leeds United supporter could wish for. If you can think of something and suggest it, we`ll put it on the website!
With news and views, along with a forum, polls and article comments, everything you need in a fans site is right here!
You can even win prizes, by posting articles comments, posting on the message forum and voting on the polls.
Vital is also 100% interactive. Not only can you have your say on the articles and the forum but you can also suggest an article or a poll so you can air your views.
So why not join Vital today?
It's easy to register here and enjoy getting involved
Message Board
To visit the message board, click here.
Get involved
This website is your website and we are looking for people to help run the site. Do you go to most of the games and have an opinion? Why not write a match report? Perhaps you are a budding journalist or even just someone who is very opinionated? Well why not join our team? If this interests you please contact Vital leeds .


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