The Mother: (.) As others are not in the same state, perhaps they will be vexed, but I am helpless! (.)  One must always laugh, always. The Lord laughs, and He laughs, and His laugh is so nice, so nice, so full of love.


The Mother: It is a laugh that envelops you with an extraordinary sweetness.  This too men have deformed — they have deformed everything ().   A somewhat undeﬁnable thing has happened.  The body had the habit of performing its functions automatically, as a natural thing; that is to say, for it there was no question of their importance or usefulness. It had not, for example, this mental or vital view of things, of what is “important” or what is “interesting” and what is not.


The Mother: That did not exist.  And then, now that the cells are becoming conscious, they stand back, as it were (), they look at themselves, they are beginning to look at themselves in action, and they are very much questioning to what purpose all that is. And then, an aspiration: “How? How should it be truly? What is our function, our utility, our basis?


The Mother: Yes, what is our basis and our standard of life? ” One might say, translating once more in mental terms: “How will one be when one is divine? What difference will there be? What is the divine way of being?” And there, what speaks is all this sort of physical basis, which is entirely made up of thousands of small things, absolutely indifferent in themselves, which have no reason for existing except as a whole, as a totality, as a support for another action; but in themselves they seem to have no meaning.


The Mother: And then, once more it is the same thing: a kind of receptivity, of silent opening allowing the thing to enter; and a very subtle perception of a way of being that would be luminous, harmonious.  This way of being is still very undeﬁnable; but in this quest, there is a constant perception (translated by a vision) of a multicoloured light, of all the colours — all the colours, not in layers but as though () it was a grouping of all the colours by dots. It is now two years (perhaps a little more, I do not remember) since I met the Tantriks. I was in relation with them and I began to see that Light, and I thought that it was the “tantrik light”, the tantrik way of seeing the material world.   But now I see it constantly, associated with everything, and it seems to be what might be called a “perception of true Matter”.


The Mother: All possible colours are joined together without being mixed up (), and joined together by luminous dots.  Everything is as if made of that. And this seems to be the true way of being — I am not yet sure, but in any case, it is a way of being much more conscious.  And I see it all the while: with open eyes, closed eyes, all the while. And you have a strange (for the body), a strange perception, at once of subtleness, of penetrability, if one may say so, of suppleness of form and positively not of an eradication but a considerable diminution of the rigidity of forms — eradication of rigidity, not eradication of forms: a suppleness in the forms.


The Mother: And the body itself, when for the ﬁrst time it felt this in one part or another, had the impression — it was a bit lost, as it were — the impression that something was escaping. But if one keeps quiet and waits quietly, that is simply replaced by a sort of plasticity, of ﬂuidity, which seems to be a new way for the cells.  It would probably be what materially must replace the physical ego; that is to say, the rigidity of the form appears to be yielding to this new way of being. But, well, we know the ﬁrst contact is always very “surprising”, but gradually the body gets accustomed. It is the moment of the passage from one way to the other which is a little difﬁcult.


The Mother: That is done very progressively, and yet there is a moment (the moment of the passage), a few seconds that are... the least that one can say is, “unexpected”.  All the habits are in this way undone. And for all the functions it is the same: for blood circulation, for digestion, for respiration — for all the functions. And at the moment of the passage, it is not that the one suddenly replaces the other, but it is a ﬂuid state between the two, and it is difﬁcult.


The Mother: It is only this great Faith, wholly immovable, luminous, constant, immutable — the faith in the real existence of the supreme Lord, in the  real existence of the Supreme — which enables everything to continue to be the same in appearance.   They are like the big waves of all the ordinary movements, the ordinary ways of being, the ordinary habits which are repulsed, and come back and try to engulf, and once again they are pushed back. And I see that for years the body and the whole bodily consciousness used to fall back into the old way, as a safety, as a means of safety, to escape. And now it has agreed not to do it any more, but to accept on the contrary: “Well, if it is dissolution, it is dissolution” — but it accepts whatever will be.  In the mind, when the thing happens in the physical mind (it was years ago, but I had observed it even then), it is this which makes people feel that they are going mad, which frightens them; and with the fright things come to pass, and then they hustle back into the ordinary common sense to get away from it.


The Mother: It is the equivalent — it is not the same thing — but it is the equivalent of what happens in the material: you feel that all the normal stability is disappearing. Well, for a long time — a long time — there was this falling back into the habit; and then you are quite at ease, you begin again. And now they do not want it any more:  “Whatever happens, we will see” — the great adventure.  “How will we be — how will we be?


The Mother: How...” Yes, the cells saying, “How should we be? How will we be?”...  It is interesting.   This problem of transformation, I see more and more clearly that there are three approaches to it, three ways of proceeding, and to be complete the three must be combined.


The Mother: One, naturally the most important one, is the way that may be called “spiritual”, which is that of contact with the Consciousness — Love-Consciousness-Power, yes, it is that ; it is these three aspects: the supreme Love-Consciousness-Power, and the contact, the identiﬁcation: to render all the material cells capable of receiving That and expressing That — to That.  Of all the means, this is the most powerful, and the most indispensable.  There is the occult way, which makes all the intermediary worlds intervene. There is a very detailed knowledge of all the powers and personalities, all the intermediary regions, and it


The Mother: uses all that. It is there that one makes use of the divinities of the Overmind. This is in the second way. Shiva, Krishna, all the aspects of the Mother form part of this second way.  And then there is the higher intellectual approach, which is the projection of a spirit transcending the scientiﬁc, which seizes the problem from below, and which has its importance also.


The Mother: From the viewpoint of detailed handling, this approach diminishes the approximations, brings a more direct and precise action.  If the three can be combined, then evidently the thing will go faster.  Without the ﬁrst nothing is possible, without it the others are even illusory: they lead nowhere, you turn round and round indeﬁnitely. But if you clothe the ﬁrst with the other two, then I think the action becomes much more precise and direct and rapid.  This is the result of the “studies” these days.


The Mother: I have received a few questions from grown-up students (not small children, but grown-ups) on the subject of “death”, of the conditions of death, why there are so many accidents at the present moment, etc. I have already answered two persons.  Naturally, the answers were on the mental level, but with an attempt to go beyond.  It is this kind of mental logic which wants, yes, things to be deduced from one another in accordance with this logic, so they arrive at questions... that are impossible.  It is nothing very new, but it is a widening of the consciousness, and just recently all these questions came into the atmosphere and gave ﬁrst of all the feeling that man knows nothing about death — he does not know what it is, he does not know what happens, he has built all kinds of hypotheses, but there is nothing certain.


The Mother: And by pushing ahead, by insisting in this way by pushing, I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing which is really death.  There is only an appearance, an appearance based on a limited view. But there is no radical change in the vibration of the consciousness. This came as an answer to a kind of anxiety  (there was a kind of anxiety in the cells in not knowing what death truly was — just that, a kind of anxiety) and the answer was very clear and persistent: it is that the consciousness alone can know, for... for the importance given to the difference of condition is only a superﬁcial importance based upon the ignorance of the phenomenon in itself. One who would be able to maintain a means of communication could say that for himself it makes no considerable difference.


The Mother: But this is something that is being worked out. There are still areas that are not clear, there are details of experience that are missing. So it seems to me that it would be better to wait till the knowledge becomes more complete, because instead of saying an approximation with suppositions, it would be better to say the complete fact with the total experience. Therefore we put it off till later on.


The Mother: Yes, yes, it is so.   Yes, it is so.   Only, instead of having a perception...


The Mother: you come out of a kind of illusory state and of a perception that is a perception of appearances, but you have a perception; that is to say, there were moments when I had the perception, I could see the difference; only, the experience was not total (it was not total in the sense that it was interrupted by outward circumstances), so it is better to wait a little before speaking of it.  But the perception is there.  Not absolutely identical, but with an effectivity sometimes greater in itself; but it was not perceived truly from the other  side. I do not know how to explain. I have had an example — not an example, but something lived, the full perception — of a person who lived for years with me, who has remained in wholly conscious contact after going out of the body (but going out of the body very materially), and who is not dissolved but is closely associated with another living being, and has continued the life of his in this association.


The Mother: And all that — I cannot give the names or the facts, but it is as concrete as it can be. And this continues.  All this has been seen — I saw it long ago, but it came back as an illustration of the new consciousness, just this morning. Extraordinarily concrete in its effects: changing the capacities and movements of the consciousness of the other, and consciously — an absolutely conscious life. And it is the same consciousness that was conscious during the period when there was nobody at all and the presence was visible only in the vision at night.


The Mother: There are others.  That one is very near and very intimate and it is why I could follow all the details.  But it is clear, precise and only with this new vision because, how to say?... I knew it — I knew it before, I knew it — but I saw it again with the new consciousness, the new way of seeing, and then the comprehension was total, the perception total, altogether concrete, with elements that were wholly missing — convincing elements — wholly missing in the ﬁrst perception, which was a mental-vital knowledge. This was a knowledge of the consciousness of the cells.


The Mother: But all that would be interesting only with all the facts (which cannot be given). So I would like to have a more complete, more “impersonal” experience, so to say, that is to say, which is not illustrated by facts, which is a vision of the totality of the process. Then only I shall be able to speak.  It will come.   Yesterday someone wrote to me asking: “After all, what is the Divine?” I answered.


The Mother: I told him that I was giving a reply to help him, but there could be a hundred which would all be good, one as good as another.  “The Divine is lived, but cannot be deﬁned.”  And then I added: but as you put to me the question, I answer: “The Divine is the absolute of perfection, eternal source of all that exists, of whom we become conscious progressively, all the while being Himself from all eternity.”  Once someone told me also that it was for him something simply unthinkable. So I answered him: “No!


The Mother: That does not help you. You have only to think that the Divine is all (at the maximum, yes), all that we want to become in our highest, most luminous aspiration. All that we want to become, that is the Divine.” He was so happy, he told me: “Oh! That way it becomes easy!”


The Mother: But when you look — as you look coming out of the mental activity and as you look at the experience which you have — and you say to yourself: “How to say this? How to explain this?”, then what is nearest, most accessible is this: into this “something” which we aspire to become, we put instinctively, spontaneously, all that we wish to be, all that we conceive of as most wonderful, all that is the object of an intense aspiration (intense and ignorant), all that. And with all that you come near to the “Something” and... Essentially, it is not by the thought that you have the contact; you have the contact through something in the being, which wakes up by the intensity of the aspiration.


The Mother: And then for oneself, as soon as this contact — this fusion — is obtained, even if only for a second, there is no longer any need to explain: it is something that imposes itself in an absolute way and that is outside and beyond all explanation.   But in order to reach there, each one puts into it whatever guides him most easily.  And when one has the experience, at the moment of this fusion, this joining, it becomes evident to the consciousness that only the identical can know the identical and that therefore it is the proof that It is there ( ). It is a proof that It is there. And it is by the intensity of aspiration that this awakens.


The Mother: When I received the question, it was altogether as if the person was telling me, “Yes, yes, all that is very good, but after all what is this that is the Divine?” Then I read his letter; there came a silence, a total silence, of everything, and as though a look, a single look gathering together everything and wanting to see.... I remained in this way, looking, till the words came; then I wrote: “Here is answer; there could be a hundred, one as good as another.”  At the same time, when there was this look towards the “something” that needed deﬁnition, there was a great silence everywhere and a great aspiration ( ), and all the forms which this aspiration took. It was very interesting...


The Mother: the story of the aspiration of earth... towards the wonderful Unknown which one wants to become.  And everyone — whoever was destined to make the joining — in his simplicity believes that the bridge he has followed is the only one. The result: religions, philosophies, dogmas, credos — battle.  Seen as a whole it is very interesting, very charming, with a Smile that looks out. Oh!


The Mother: this Smile... that looks out. This Smile, as though it were saying, “You make it so complicated and it could be so simple!”  To express it in a literary way, one might say: “Such complications for such a simple thing: to be oneself.”  ()   And you, what do you think the Divine is?


The Mother: Neither do I! I have never put the question to myself. Because as soon as there was a need to know, there was spontaneously an answer. And an answer, not with words which one debates: an answer... something like that, a vibration. It is a thing almost constant now.


The Mother: Naturally men create difﬁculties (I believe they must like them very much, because...) for everything, for the thing there is always a world of difﬁculties. So one passes one’s time saying: “Quiet, quiet, quiet — be calm.” And the body itself lives in the midst of difﬁculties (it also seems to like them!), but all of a sudden the cells sing out their OM... spontaneously. And then it is as though a child’s joy in all these cells which say ( ): “Ah yes! One is able to do that?


The Mother: One has the right to do that!” It is touching.  And the effect is immediate: this great Vibration, peaceful, all powerful.  As for me, if I was not under the constant pressure of all the wills around, I would say: “Why do you want to know what the Divine is? What does it matter to you?


The Mother: You have only to become it.” But they do not understand a joke.  “I want to know what the Divine is.”  “But no, it is altogether useless.”  “Ah!”


The Mother: They answer you with a scandalised look: “Ah! It isn’t interesting?”  “You have no need to know: you have to become it.”  For them, I mean the vast intellectual majority, they cannot conceive that one can do or be something without knowing what it is.  That also, one might say if one likes the joke: “It is only when one does not know that one is most divine.”


The Mother: (.)  For those who like deﬁnitions, there is another way of answering to “What is the Divine?”... “A vastness, smiling and luminous.”  And it is, is it not? It is there.


The Mother: I have something to add to what we said the other day about the Divine. Someone asks me: “And what is God?” It is about a text of Sri Aurobindo. Here it is:  It is in the context of the last phrase that I am asked: “What is God?”


The Mother: Therefore I said (I took up the word “God”): “It is the name man has given to all that surpasses him and dominates him, all that he cannot know, but to which he submits.”  Instead of putting “to all that surpasses him”, one might put “to that which surpasses him”, because “all that” is debatable from the intellectual point of view. I mean there is a “something” — a something which is indeﬁnable and inexplicable — and this something, man has always felt, dominates him. It transcends all possible understanding and it dominates him. And so the religions have given it a name; man has called him “God”; the English call him God; in another language he is called in another way, but ﬁnally it is that.


The Mother: I do not give any deﬁnition purposely. Because the feeling of all my life has been that it is a word, and a word behind which  people have put many very undesirable things... this idea of God, for example, who wants to be unique, as they say: “God is unique.” But they feel it and they say it as Anatole France said it, I believe it is in the: “This God who wants to be the only one and.” That is the thing which had made me completely atheist, if one might say so, in my childhood; I did not accept a being who declared himself to be unique and all-powerful, Even if he was unique and all-powerful (), he must not have the right to proclaim it!


The Mother: It was like this in my mind. I could give a discourse upon it for a full hour, to say how in each religion they confronted it.  In any case, I gave what seemed to me the most objective deﬁnition. And like the other day, in “What is the Divine?”, I tried to give the impression of the Thing; here I wanted to ﬁght against the use of the word, which for me is hollow, but dangerously hollow.   Savitri


The Mother: Many things to say, but... it is better to come to the end. It is a curve. Better to reach the end. It is too early to speak.


The Mother: ( ) The movements of the body almost in their totality are habitual movements. Behind, there is the consciousness of the physical mind (what I call the “cellular mind”), which is itself constantly conscious of the divine Presence and is keen on accepting nothing but That; so a whole work is going on for changing, shifting the origin of the movements. I mean to say that instead of it just being automatically the habit, it should be automatically the divine Presence and Consciousness that causes the movement ( ).


The Mother: But it is quite, quite inexpressible; that is to say, as soon as you try to express it, it is mentalised, it is no longer itself. That is why it is very difﬁcult to express it. I cannot speak of it.  However, I seem to have told you not long ago of my observation of the habit and the taste for drama in the most material consciousness. That was the starting-point.


The Mother: As soon as it became conscious, that habit became, as it were, foreign, foreign to the true consciousness, and from then on the transfer has been going on.  It is a very delicate and difﬁcult work.  It means ﬁghting against a habit thousands of years old. It is the automatism of the material consciousness which is, yes, dramatic, almost catastrophic; sometimes dramatic, and dramatic with an imaginative conclusion which undoes the drama. But all that becomes much too concrete as soon as one expresses it.


The Mother: Better not to speak of it.  As soon as it is said, it becomes artiﬁcial.  And it is as though in order to replace this habit there was a kind of effort to create another(!) which is only an  approximation. Does this state of consciousness, this way of being, this way of existing, of reacting, of expressing, point to or tend towards the Divine Manifestation?


The Mother: Is it in conformity with the urge towards the Divine Manifestation?... And the thought is silent, immobile, then the imagination does not work (all that, willingly), and the movement tries to be as sincere and as spontaneous as possible, under the inﬂuence of the divine Presence.... Words deform everything.  From time to time — from time to time, all of a sudden: the concrete experience, like a lightning ﬂash — the experience of the Presence, the identiﬁcation. But that lasts a few seconds and then it begins again as it was before.


The Mother: It cannot be expressed.  It is exactly so.   I understand! I was busy with it all the while.  (


The Mother: )  But Sri Aurobindo’s conclusion is that it is not this () which can change; it will be a new being.   if  No, I do not mean here in this text; I mean in the things he wrote subsequently.  Besides, it is the same thing, because... can a body change?...


The Mother: And even so, it seems to be very difﬁcult. It is not impossible. It is not impossible, but... it is such a tremendous labour that life is too short; and even there, there is something to change, yes — this habit of wearing out is a terrible thing.  Of course not, just so!


The Mother: The more one looks... It won’t come like that (), it will come evidently in the same way as man has come out of the animal. But the stages between the animal and man are missing. We think of it, we imagine it, we have rediscovered things, but to say the truth we were not  present! We do not know how that happened.


The Mother: But that does not matter.... According to some, we can consciously begin to work out within us the transformation, in forming the child. It is possible; I do not say No. It is possible. And then this one must prepare a more transformed one and so on, several stages like that which will disappear even as the stages between the ape and man have disappeared?


The Mother: You can call it as you like, yes. But a... as for us, we conceive, as you say, a new being as descending ready-made, prefabricated!... That is pure romance.


The Mother: It would be after two or three — or four or ten or twenty, I do not know — intermediary beings that the new manner, the supramental manner of creating, will come.... But will it be necessary to have children? Will it not do away with the necessity of children to replace those who will be no longer there?  For they will continue to exist indeﬁnitely. They will transform themselves sufﬁciently to adapt to the new needs.


The Mother: Yes, a long distance.  No, Sri Aurobindo did not view it at a short distance.   But, I see...  I am trying to do it — not by an arbitrary will, nothing of the kind; simply there is “Something” or Someone or a Consciousness or anything (I do not want to speak of it) which is using this () and trying to make something of it.  That is to say, at the same time I am doing and I am witnessing, and the “I”, I do not know where it is: it is not within there, it is not up there, it is not...


The Mother: I do not know where it is; it is for the necessity of language. There is “something” that is doing and it is witnessing at the same time, and at the same time it is the action that does it: the three.  Because the body itself now truly collaborates as much as it can — as much as it can — with a goodwill and an increasing power of endurance, and, in fact, the backward turn on oneself is reduced to a minimum (it is there, but like something that just touches from time to time, but it does not stay even for a few seconds). That, this backward turn on oneself, is altogether the atmosphere that is disgusting, repulsive, catastrophic. And it is like that, it is like that.


The Mother: And it is becoming more and more impossible, I see it, it is visible.... But there is still the weight of thousands of years of bad habits which may be called pessimistic, that is to say, expecting decline, expecting catastrophe, expecting... in fact, all these things, and it is that which is most difﬁcult, ouf! to purify, to clarify, to throw out of the atmosphere. It is so much that it is altogether spontaneous. It is this which is the great, great obstacle, this kind of feeling of the inevitable decline.


The Mother: Naturally, from the mental point of view, the whole earthly atmosphere is like that, but in the mind it has very little importance: a ray of light and it is swept away. But it is there (), it is this habit — this catastrophic habit — which is formidable, formidable to counteract. And it  is that it should disappear so that the other may instal itself.  So it is a battle of every minute, every minute, all the while, all the while.  And then, you know, the being is not isolated, the body is not isolated; it is more or less a multitude, with degrees of proximity; but quite near, there are all those who are here, and it is the same problem — the same problem.


The Mother: Because what is acquired in the consciousness of this body is not acquired at all in the consciousness of others. That increases the labour.  The problem of mental and even vital contagion is, so to say, resolved, but the problem of material contagion still remains there.  And in this material consciousness, there is the material mind that has so marvellously responded here, but it has not yet the power to assert itself spontaneously against what comes from outside, this perpetual contagion, constant, constant, of every minute.  (


The Mother: )  When all of a sudden the Contact becomes conscious and the sense of Identity comes, as I say, for a few seconds, but when it comes... it is like a hosanna of all the cells which say: “Oh! Yes, yes, it is true! So it is true...”  This comes perhaps a hundred times a day, but it does not stay.


The Mother: () People always confuse two ideas. It is from the universal and spiritual point of view that, not positively the “good” as men understand it, but the True, the Truth, will have the last word; it goes without saying. That is to say, ﬁnally the Divine will be victorious. That is what is said, what all who have lived a spiritual life have said — it is an absolute fact.


The Mother: Men, in translating it, say, “I am a good boy, I live in accordance with what I think to be true, therefore, all existence should be good for me.” ( ) First of all, one’s own appreciation of oneself is always doubtful, and then, in the world as it is now, all is mixed, it is not the Law of Truth that openly manifests itself to the half-blind human consciousness — it will not even understand it. I mean, to be more exact, that it is the supreme vision that is realising itself constantly, but its realisation in the mixed material world does not appear to the ignorant human sight as the triumph of good, what men call good and true.


The Mother: But (to say it in a joking way) it is not the fault of the Lord, it is the fault of men! That is to say, the Lord knows what he is doing, and men do not understand it.   Both. There would be a difference.


The Mother: It is the present ignorance  and obscurity in the world that give a deforming appearance to the divine Action; and that naturally must tend to disappear; but it is also true that there is a way of seeing things which... one might say, which gives another meaning to their appearance — the two are there, like this ().  ( )  You always come back to this, that man’s judgment is wrong — wrong because his vision of things is wrong, is incomplete — and necessarily this judgment must have wrong results.  The world is perpetually changing, perpetually; not for a second is it like itself, and the general harmony expresses itself more and more perfectly


The Mother: ; therefore nothing can remain as it is and in spite of all appearances to the contrary, the is always constantly progressing; the harmony is becoming more and more harmonious, the truth becoming more and more true in the Manifestation. But to see that, one must see the whole, and man sees only... not even the human domain, but only his personal domain, quite small, quite small, microscopic — he cannot understand.  It is a double thing that is going on completing itself ( ) and with a mutual action: as the Manifestation becomes more conscious of itself, its expression perfects itself, becomes also more true. The two movements go together.  (


The Mother: )  It was one of the things that was seen very clearly the other day, when there was this Consciousness of Knowledge: when the Manifestation will have sufﬁciently emerged out of the Inconscient so that all this necessity of struggle, created by the presence of the Inconscient, becomes progressively more and more useless, it will disappear quite naturally, and progress, instead of  being made through effort and struggle, will begin to be made harmoniously. That is what the human consciousness foresees as a divine creation upon earth — it will still be only one step.  But for the present step, it is a kind of harmonious attainment that will change the universal progress (which is ceaseless) into a progress through joy and harmony instead of a progress through struggle and suffering.... But what was seen is that this feeling of insufﬁciency, of something that is not complete and is not perfect, that, one must foresee, will exist for a very long time — if the notion of time remains the same, that I do not know.


The Mother: But all change implies time, does it not? It may not be translated by time as we conceive it, but it does imply a succession.  All these so-called problems — all the while one receives, in this way, questions and questions and problems of the mind (all problems in the Ignorance, is it not so?) — problems for the earth-worm. As soon as you emerge up there, such problems do not exist any more. There are no more contradictions.


The Mother: Contradictions always come from the inadequacy of vision and the incapacity to see a thing from all points of view at the same time.  In any case, to bring the question down to earth, no sage at any time, I think, has ever said: “Be good, and all will go well with you externally” — because it is a stupidity. In a world of disorder, in a world of falsehood, to hope for that is not reasonable. But you can have, if you are sufﬁciently sincere and whole and entire in your way of being, you can have the inner joy, the full satisfaction, whatever the circumstances, and that nobody and nothing has the power to touch.   For the last several nights I have been passing almost the whole night, many hours, in a place which must certainly belong to the subtle physical and where the material life gets reorganised.


The Mother: It is vast — vast — the crowd is innumerable, but these are individualities, not a crowd; that is to say, I have to deal with each one of them. And then, it is as though at the same time there are documents and writing tables but no walls around! It is a curious place, a very curious place.  I have asked myself many a time whether it was the memory of physical forms that made me see this world in that way or whether it is really like that. At times there is no doubt, because it has a character altogether its own, but at other times there is a doubt and I ask myself if it is not in my active memory.


The Mother: Because I am very conscious at that time and everything is extremely natural, and indeed permanent: I ﬁnd again the same things at the same place, sometimes with slight differences, but differences necessitated by action. That is to say, it is a coherent world, it is not a disorderly imagination. But to what extent are these forms the reﬂection of natural forms? To what extent are they like that or do we them like that? I am not yet very sure.


The Mother: I had the same problem when I used to go into the Overmind and see the gods: I had always a kind of hesitation in knowing whether they are truly like that or whether we perceive them like that because of our physical habits.... There, after some time, I came to a conclusion; but here, physically...?  It is a curious thing: there are no doors, no windows, neither ceiling nor ﬂoor; all this exists in itself, it does not seem to obey the law of gravitation, that is to say, there is no magnetic attraction of the earth, and yet when one writes () there seems to be a pen! And when one writes upon something, there seems to be a piece of paper; and when there are documents,  they seem to be in dockets.... One feels that the substance is not the same, but the appearance is very close.


The Mother: And it is this appearance, and I am yet again putting the question to myself: “Is it because of our ordinary cerebral working that we put this appearance upon it or is it truly so?”   There I meet almost everybody. I told you, you are there very regularly and we work. You do not remember.


The Mother: There are others who remember, but their memory is ( ) just a little off the line; that is to say, it is not exactly the same as what I saw. So when they tell me about it, I have altogether the feeling that it is the transcription in their brain that made it so.... And the objective reality of the material world comes from this, that if you see the same object ten times, ten times it resembles itself, with differences that are reasonable, which could be differences due to usage, for example; but there also it is like this! And if you study carefully, even in the physical world two persons do not see things exactly in the same way. There, perhaps it is more accentuated, but it seems to be a similar phenomenon....


The Mother: The explanation becomes very simple, very easy when you enter into the consciousness where the material reality itself becomes an illusion; it is illusory, it is not exact: the inner reality is more true. Then in that case, it is simple. It is perhaps only our mind that is astonished.   Take writing, for example.


The Mother: I have not observed in detail, but when one writes there, one seems to write much more easily. I do not know how to explain it, it takes much less time and things are noted down on paper — but is it really paper? It looks like paper, but things are noted down much more directly.... There is perhaps a similarity, as for example when you use a pen or a pencil: it is not exactly a pen or a pencil but something resembling it, which is... (how to say it?) the prototype or the principle of this object. But what I mean to say is that if we were still in the age of the quill or the pen that one dips in a liquid, probably I would see it like that!


The Mother: It is the or  the principle of the thing that is translated in the memory by a similarity.  But it is an action. I know the time only when I come back, for I have made it a habit to notice the time whenever I come back to the material consciousness (I have a watch beside my bed and I look at it) and that is how I can say: “This lasted one hour, that lasted two hours.” But there, one has not the sense of time, it is not the same sense — it is the of the action that matters, and during those hours many, many things are done, many. And so I meet you there very regularly, but many others also, and I am at many places at the same time!


The Mother: And when a person tells me, “But I saw you last night, you did this and that”, then up there somewhere, I say, “Yes, it is true”, there is just a little (), just a little difference, but the essence of the thing is the same.  And I have noticed that these things that are quite near the physical disappear if you wake up all of a sudden, particularly if you stir while waking up, if you make a movement or if you turn on your side. It is only afterwards, if at some time I am very quiet and go within myself, then slowly I can again come in contact with that state. Therefore, it does not surprise me that the majority of people do not remember. Experiences in the vital, in the mental are remembered much more easily, but that which is quite close to the physical...


The Mother: And it has such a character that if one kept the consciousness of it on waking up, one would look somewhat like a mad person.  I had the experience of it just two days back and it has taught me a great deal — I looked, studied and studied until I understood.  It was during my afternoon rest (I do not at all sleep in the afternoon, but I go like that into the inner consciousness) and I had ﬁxed beforehand that I would wake up at such an hour, that is to say, I would get up. When it was time, I was deep in the midst of my action and the state of consciousness continued with my eyes open; and then, in that state of consciousness, there was... I cannot say “I”, for it was not the same “I” — no, I  am many persons at that moment — but the “I” of that moment had the habit of carrying a watch, a golden wrist-watch (not here materially, but up there) and had forgotten to put on the watch and looked for it and noticed: “Ah!


The Mother: I forgot to put on my watch. What has become of this watch? Why did I forget?” And when I woke up (I do not carry a watch, you know) and came back to myself, the two consciousnesses were simultaneous and I said loudly, “Where is my watch? I have forgotten to put on my watch”, and it is only when I said that () that I became aware!


The Mother: So that made me reﬂect; I studied well, looked quietly, saw closely that at that moment the two consciousnesses are quite (), quite simultaneous.  It is very interesting. Oh! There were all sorts of problems which have been solved by that experience. For example, the problem of many who are taken as mad, but who are simply in this subtle consciousness () which dominates at a given moment and which makes them say things that have no meaning here but have a very clear meaning there.


The Mother: And the consciousness is like this ( ). This explains many cases of so-called madness. There are also cases of apparent insincerity that are also of like nature, because the consciousness sees clearly in this domain and it is a domain so near that the same names could be given to things; they seem to have the same or quite similar forms, but it is not what is here known by the name “tangible reality”; materially, externally, things are not quite like that. And so there are cases of socalled insincerity which are simply too close a mixture of the two consciousnesses — too close for active discernment. Oh!


The Mother: A whole domain has been made clear, and not only made clear, but has brought with it the key to healing or to transformation. From an inner psychological point of view, this has explained things to an enormous degree, to an enormous degree. That reduces considerably the number of cases of true mental alienation and  cases of real falsehood, that is to say, cases where one says deliberately, consciously, the contrary of what is — it cannot be as frequent as one believes. Many say things like that ( ), things inexact, but which they perceive in a world other than the purely material, in too close a mixture and with not enough discrimination to discover the mixture.... Sri Aurobindo used to say that cases of real ill-will, real hostility and real falsehood are very rare, that is to say, “real” in its absolute sense, in themselves, and conscious, deliberate — deliberate, absolute, conscious — that is rare; and it is that which is described as the hostile beings.


The Mother: But all the rest is a kind of illusion of consciousness — of consciousnesses that intermingle with each other ( ) and, being without precise discrimination between the different consciousnesses, are like this (), mixed, the one entering and coming out of the other.  ( )  So the result was to see the immensity of the problem to be solved and of the way to follow and the transformation to achieve.... When you look from the purely psychological standpoint, it becomes relatively easy and quick, but when you come to this (), to the external form, to what is called Matter, oh, it is a world!


The Mother: Each lesson — it is like lessons that are given, it is so interesting! lessons with all the consequences and explanations; you pass a day, two days to make a small, a very small discovery. And then you see that in the bodily consciousness, after that, after these days or these hours of work, the light is there, it is changed — it is changed, the reactions are no longer the same, but... ().  And the Presence, the Presence becomes more and more intimate, more and more concrete, and at that time there are moments when it is () so concrete that  it seems to be absolute, and then () another state of consciousness comes up and all has to be begun again.  It is interesting.


The Mother: And it is precisely to teach you.... The great words, the great attitudes, the great experiences, all that is very good up there, but here... nothing spectacular — everything is very modest, very calm, very effaced — very modest. And this is the condition for progress, the condition for transformation.   There, my child.


The Mother: But did you ever expect that it would not take time?  But I never thought — I never thought that it could come quickly.   First of all, one has only to try, as I do, on one’s own body, see the difference between matter as it is, the constitution as it is, and then... what one may conceive of a divine existence — that is to say,, which is not at every second tied to the obscurity of a half inconscient matter... How long will it take?


The Mother: How long has it taken to change the stone into the plant, the plant into the animal, the animal...? We do not know, but in the way things move... Now that they have become so clever in calculating, when do they think the earth was formed? How many millions and millions of years? And all that to arrive at where we are now.


The Mother: Naturally, the more it moves, the more it goes quickly, it is understood, but quickly... quickly?   No! It is not a question of being “natural”. Nature has arranged things progressively to manifest the consciousness; that is to say, the whole work has been to prepare the Inconscient in such a way that it may become conscious.


The Mother: Naturally, now the consciousness is there, at least in a large measure; hence it goes much quicker; that is to say, the bulk of the work is done. But still, as I have said,  when one sees the degree to which it is tied to inconscience, to a half-vague consciousness, and sees that men who do not know still feel the “fatality”, the “destiny” — what they call “Nature” and all that dominates and rules — well, for the last change to be done, all that must become fully conscious, and not only in the mental way — that is not sufﬁcient — but in the divine way!  So, much remains to be done.  This is just what I see every day with this poor little body, and then, all that surrounds it (), all this substance as it is, oh!... nothing but illness and misery and disorder. Oh!


The Mother: All that has nothing in common with the Divine.  An unconscious mass.  Do you mean to say: Unless something comes down and  changes it?  But Sri Aurobindo says (I read it two days ago, I do not know where he has written it, for it was only a quotation) that if the divine Consciousness, the divine Power, the divine Love, the Truth manifested itself too rapidly upon the earth, the earth would be dissolved! She would not be able to bear it...


The Mother: brrf!  I am translating, but the idea is that.  ( ) The smaller dose is always there.


The Mother: It is always there, a small dose; there is even a somewhat strong dose, and if one looks at That, one is full of wonder. But it is just because of That that one still sees... how things are.  Well, there is not a day when it has not been noticed that one dose, not a full dose but just a little dose, an inﬁnitesimal drop of That, can cure you in a minute — “it can”: it you, not “it can”; you are all the while in that state, poised, and  the least failing means disorder and the end; and just one drop  of That... it becomes light and progress.


The Mother: The two extremes. The two extremes are side by side.  It is an observation that one makes at least several times a day.  But naturally, if this instrument was made to observe, to explain, to describe, it could say wonderful things, but, well... I think — I do not know, but it seems to be the ﬁrst time that the instrument, instead of being made in order to bring the “Good Tidings”, the “Revelation”, to give the signal, has been made to...


The Mother: to try to realise — to do the work, the obscure task. And so it observes, but it does not get into an ecstatic joy of observation, and it is compelled at every minute to see,, how much work still remains to be done.... And so, as regards itself it can rejoice only when the work has been done — but what does that mean, the “work done”?... Something that is This divine Presence, this divine Consciousness, this divine Truth manifests itself like this, in a ﬂash, and then... everything goes on in its usual trot — there is a change, but an imperceptible change.


The Mother: Well, for it (), this is all right, and I think it is that which sustains its courage and gives it a kind of smiling peace in spite of all that is so little satisfactory with regard to the result; but this cannot satisfy it, it will be satisﬁed only... when the thing will be done, that is to say, when what is now a revelation — dazzling but short-lived — will be an established fact, when truly there will be divine bodies, divine beings dealing with the world in a divine way; then, then only it will say, “Yes, that is it”, but not before. Well, that, I do not believe that it can be immediately.  Because I see very well, very well what is at work; I have told you, there are things which, yes, if I had to narrate and explain and predict, one could make with it a whole teaching, with only of these experiences — I have at least several of them in a day. But that serves no purpose, to be sure, I know it.


The Mother: And it is not impatience, it is not even a lack of satisfaction,  nothing of the kind; it is a... a Force, a Will that moves forward step by step and that cannot stop in order to tell the story, to rest content with what has been done.  ( )  Is there anywhere upon earth a being truly divine, that is to say, who is not ruled by any law of inconscience?...


The Mother: One would know, it seems to me. If it existed and I did not know it, then I must say that I must have somewhere in me a very great insincerity for such a thing to happen.  To say the truth, I do not ask myself the question.  In all, all who are known, all who have taken the position of revelators of the new world or realisers of the new life, every one of them possesses a certain percentage of unconsciousness very much greater than mine, then... But this is all that is known publicly.


The Mother: Is there a being somewhere and nobody knows him?... It would surprise me if there was no communication. I do not know.  Well, there are many, many, quite an outburst of new Christs, of Kalkis, of Supermen, oh! There are very many of them, but generally, in some way there is communication, in any case their existence comes to be known; well, among all of them, all with whom I have come in contact, visible or invisible, there is not a single one who has... (how to say it?)


The Mother: less unconsciousness than there is in this body — but I recognise there is much of it, oh!  Process, what process? Of transformation?   But it is doing that!  It does not stop doing it!


The Mother: The answer is this: all at once there is the perception (oh!  all these are subtle, very subtle things, but for the consciousness precisely, it is very concrete), the perception of a kind of disorganisation, like a current of disorganisation; then the substance constituting the body begins at ﬁrst by feeling, then by noticing the effect, then everything begins to be disorganised. It is this disorganisation that prevents the cohesion necessary for the cells to constitute an individual body; then one knows, ah! ( ), it is going to be ﬁnished. Then the cells aspire, and there is something like a central consciousness of the body which aspires intensely, with a surrender as complete as it can make: “Thy Will, Lord, Thy Will, Thy Will.”


The Mother: Then there is a kind of — not anything bursting aloud, not any dazzling ﬂash, but a kind of... yes, it gives the feeling of a condensation of this current of disorganisation, and then something stops; at ﬁrst a peace, then a light, then the Harmony — and the disorder disappears. And when the disorder has disappeared, at once there is this feeling that they live the eternity, for the eternity.  Well, this, in this way, with all the intensity of concrete reality, is happening not only daily but many times in a day. At times it is very severe, that is to say, like a mass. Sometimes it is only a thing that touches; then in the consciousness of the body it translates itself in this way, as a kind of thanksgiving: a progress in fact over the inconscience.


The Mother: Only, these are not resounding events; the human neighbour does not even know it, he can perhaps notice a kind of cessation in the outward  activity, a kind of concentration, but that’s all. So one does not speak of the matter, one cannot write books on it, one does not do propaganda about it.... It is this, the work.  All, all the mental aspirations are not satisﬁed with this.  It is a work very obscure.


The Mother: ( )  It is a day or two now, I do not know, there was, as it were, a total vision of this effort of the earth towards its divinisation, and it was as if someone were saying (it is not “someone”, it is the witness consciousness, the consciousness that observes, but it formulates itself in words; very often it formulates itself in English and I have the feeling that it is Sri Aurobindo, the active consciousness of Sri Aurobindo, but sometimes it is translated into words only in my consciousness) and it was something that said, “Yes, the time of proclamations, of revelations is gone — now to action.”  In fact, proclamations, revelations, prophecies, all that is very agreeable, it gives the feeling of something “concrete”; now it is very obscure, the feeling that it is very obscure, invisible (the results will be visible only a long, long time hereafter), not understood .


The Mother: It belongs to a domain which is not yet ready to be explained, to be manifested in words.  And indeed, to the extent that it is truly new, it is incomprehensible. What I say does not correspond to any experience lived through by him who reads about it.  And I see quite well, I see so well the little work like this () which would be needed for it to become a prophetic revelation. A little work, a little reversal in the mind — the experience is altogether outside the mind, and so what is spoken of it ()...


The Mother: Precisely because it is not mental, the thing is almost incomprehensible ; and for all this (oh! it is visible) for all this to become accessible, just a little  reversal () in the mind and it becomes a prophecy.  And that... that is not possible. It will lose its truth.


The Mother: There you are.  Yes, it is on the way.   There is a progress.   At the end of the physical demonstration on the 2nd of December, all the children in a chorus are going to pray, and I have written the prayer for them.


The Mother: I am going to read it to you.  But I had not thought of it; I was asked and I did it.  Probably they read the and so they asked for a prayer — a prayer that is truly of the body. And I answered: It is almost a proclamation.  After the demonstration they are going to say it.


The Mother: It appears they are going to show the whole historical growth of physical culture and then at the end they will say: we have not come to the end, we are at the beginning of something and here is our prayer.  I was very glad.   A progress! A tremendous progress! They had never thought, never; there in the totality they had never thought of achieving the transformation: they were thinking of becoming the best athletes in the world and all the usual nonsense.


The Mother: The body, you see, they asked for a prayer of the  They have come to understand that the body must begin to transform itself into something else. Before this, they were quite full of the whole history of physical culture in all the countries, and the country where it is most advanced and how to use the body as it is, etc. Well, it was the ideal of the Olympics. Now they have jumped beyond; that was the past, now they want transformation.


The Mother: Yes, people in their mind and their vital asked to become divine; well, it is all the old story of spirituality, reiterated for centuries. No, now it is the It is the body that wants to participate. It is altogether a progress.  But it is already fully awake for months in me!


The Mother: So it must be they have just now felt it and they feel it.  How is it done? — it is in the process of being done.   No, no, no.


The Mother: If it has been done in one single body, it can be done in all bodies.  Well, that is what I have been trying to explain for months.   First of all, to awaken the consciousness in the cells...  Yes, of course, but once it is done, it is done : the consciousness wakes up more and more, the cells live consciously, aspire consciously.


The Mother: I have been trying to explain it for months; for months and months I have been trying to explain it. And so it is just that which has pleased me, that they have understood at least the possibility.  The same consciousness which was the monopoly of the vital and the mind has become that of the body: the consciousness is working in the cells of the body.  The cells of the body are becoming something conscious, wholly conscious.  A consciousness that is independent, not depending at all upon the vital or the mental consciousness: it is a bodily consciousness.


The Mother: ( )  And this physical mind of which Sri Aurobindo said that it was an impossibility, that it was something that turns round and round and will always turn round and round, precisely without consciousness, like a kind of machine, that mind has been converted, has become silent, and in the silence it has received the inspiration of the Consciousness. And it has begun again to pray: the same prayers that were there before in the mind.  But since it is happening in one body, it can happen in all bodies!


The Mother: I am not made of something different from the others. The difference is in consciousness, that is all. It is made exactly of  the same thing, with the same things, I eat the same things, and it was made in the same way, absolutely.  And it was as stupid, as obscure, as unconscious, as obstinate as all the bodies of the world.  And this began when the doctors declared that I was very ill, that was the beginning.


The Mother: Because the entire body was emptied of its habits and its forces, and then slowly, slowly, slowly the cells woke up to a new receptivity and opened themselves to the Divine Inﬂuence directly.  Otherwise there would be no hope. If this matter that started by being... Even a pebble is already an organisation — certainly it was worse than a pebble: unconscious, inert, absolute; and then, little by little, little by little that woke up. It sees, yes, it sees, it has only to open its eyes to see.


The Mother: Well, it is the same thing which happens: for the animal to become a man it did not require anything other than the infusion of a consciousness, a mental consciousness; and now it is the awakening of this consciousness which was altogether at the bottom, the very bottom.  The mind is withdrawn, the vital is withdrawn, all is withdrawn.  At the time when I was said to be ill, the mind was gone, the vital was gone, the body was left to itself — purposely. Yes, it is that, it is just because the vital and the mental were gone that it gave the impression of a very serious illness. And then, in the body left to itself, little by little the cells began to wake up to the consciousness (); this consciousness that was infused into the body by the vital (from the mental into the vital, from the vital into the body), when both had disappeared, the consciousness emerged slowly, slowly.


The Mother: That started with a burst of the Love from the highest summit, the last supreme altitude, and then little by little, little by little, it came down into the body. And then this physical mind, that is to say, something altogether, altogether stupid, which used to turn round and round, repeating always the same thing, a hundred  times the same thing, little by little it was illumined, became conscious, was organised, and then it entered into the silence; then in the silence the aspiration expressed itself in prayers.  ( ) It is the contradiction of all the spiritual assertions of the past: “If you want to live fully conscious of the divine life, give up your body — the body cannot follow”; well, Sri Aurobindo came and said: the body, not only can it follow, it can even be the base for manifesting the Divine.  The work remains to be done.


The Mother: But now a certitude is there. The result remains still far off, very far; much has to be done before the crust, the experience of the most external surface as it is, manifests what is happening within (not “within” in the spiritual depths: within the body).  To enable that to manifest what is within... This will come last, and it is good it is so, for if it came before time, one would neglect the work, one would be so satisﬁed as to forget to ﬁnish his work; everything should be done within, should be well and good, should be thoroughly changed, then the outside will speak it out.  But it is all one single substance, all similar everywhere, and everywhere it was unconscious; and then what is remarkable is that things are happening ( ) altogether unexpected, here and there, in people who do not even know anything.


The Mother: ( )  The material cells have to obtain the capacity to receive and to manifest consciousness. And then what makes for a radical transformation is that in place of, so to say, an eternal and indeﬁnite ascent, there is the appearance of a new type — it is a descent from above. The previous descent was a mental descent,  and this one, Sri Aurobindo calls it a supramental descent; the impression is that of a descent of the supreme Consciousness which infuses itself into something that is capable of receiving it and manifesting it.


The Mother: And then, out of this, when it has been thoroughly churned (how long it will take, one does not know), a new form will take birth, which will be what Sri Aurobindo called the supramental form — which will be... it does not matter what, I do not know what these beings will be called.  How will they express themselves, how will they make themselves understood, and all that?... In man, it has developed very slowly. Only the mind has laboured much and basically has made things move quicker.


The Mother: How is one going to reach there? ... There will surely be stages in the manifestation, with perhaps a specimen that will come and say: this is how it is. ( )


The Mother: One sees that.  Only, when man came out of the animal, there was no means of recording — of noting down and keeping an account of the process — now it is quite different, so it will be more interesting.  ( )  But still at the present moment, the vast majority — the vast majority — of the intellectual humanity is perfectly satisﬁed with being busy with itself and its bits of progress like this ( ).


The Mother: It has not even — not even the desire to be anything else.  This means that the coming of the superhuman being... it may very well pass unperceived or not be understood. One cannot say, for there is no analogy; evidently if a monkey, one of the big monkeys, had met the ﬁrst man, he would simply have felt that it was a being a little... queer, that’s all. But now it is different, because man thinks, reasons.


The Mother: But with regard to all that is superior to man, man has been accustomed to think that these were beings... divine beings, that  is to say, they had no body, they appeared in the light — in short, all the gods as they have been conceived — but it is not at all like that.   ( )  Then?


The Mother: You are not convinced?  Why don’t you try?  Yes, it is an excellent occasion.   Bah!


The Mother: It is not an ass, poor fellow! ()  For me that problem never arose, because... When one plays  music or does painting, one sees very well that the consciousness enters into the cells and these cells become conscious. This experience, for example: there are things in a box and one says to the hand: “Take twelve”; (without counting, like that) the hand picks up the twelve and gives them to you.


The Mother: That is an experience that I had long, long ago. At the age of twenty I started having experiences like that, therefore I know. I knew how the consciousness works. Well, it is impossible to learn piano or to do painting unless the consciousness enters into the hands and the hands become conscious of the head. The head can be busy elsewhere, that has no importance.


The Mother: Besides, this is exactly what happens in the case of people called somnambulists: they have a consciousness belonging to the body that makes them move and do things [that are] quite independent of the mind and the vital.  But no! It is the that ends by saying the mantra! Spontaneously, so spontaneously that even if you by chance think of other things, your body will be saying the mantra. You do not have this experience?


The Mother: And it is the body that aspires, the body that says the mantra, the body that wants the light, the body that wants the consciousness — you, you can think of other things, Tom, Dick or Harry, a book, etc., it has no importance.  But now I understand very well, very well; in the beginning I did not understand, I believed that I was made “ill” so that I  would stop the life that I was leading when I was downstairs — but I lead a life still more busy than the life downstairs, therefore... I asked myself why, whether it was a period of transition.  But now I understand: cut off, I fainted in a swoon. That is why the doctor declared that I was ill: I could not move a step without fainting; I wanted to walk from here to there: on the way, pouf!


The Mother: I fainted. Someone had to hold me so that the body would not fall down. But as for me, I did not lose consciousness for a single minute. I fainted, but I was conscious, I saw my body, I knew that I had fainted, I did not lose consciousness, and the body also did not lose consciousness. So now I understand: it was cut off from the vital and the mental and left to its own resources; it was simply the body: all that it knew, all the experiences it had had, all the mastery that was there in all the states of being, the vital, the mental and above, all that gone!


The Mother: and this poor body left to itself. And then naturally, little by little, all that was rebuilt, rebuilt, a conscious, purely conscious being.  Yes, I understand, I understand. But truly it was cut off, that I have known — I have seen — cut off, the states of being sent away: “Go away, you are no longer wanted.


The Mother: ” And then a new life needed to be built up. And instead of the necessity of passing through all the states of being as was done before, by successive awakenings ( ) up to the highest, the very highest, beyond form — now it is not at all like that, it needed nothing at all of all that, it has simply to... ( ) .


The Mother: Something has opened and developed within, and that is why this stupid mind has been organised, has been capable of being silent in an aspiration; and then... then it was the direct contact, without any intermediary — direct contact. And that it has now, all the while. All the while, all the while, the direct contact. And it is, it is not through all kinds of things and states of being, not at all, it is direct.   But once it is done (Sri Aurobindo has said this), once body has done it, it has the capacity to pass it on to others: and I tell you, now — I do not say in the whole and in detail, probably not, but here and there ( ) — all of a sudden one or another experience occurs in people.


The Mother: There are people (the majority) who are afraid; then naturally it goes away — it is because they were not sufﬁciently prepared within; if it is not the petty routine of every minute, of day to day, they have fear; and once they have fear, it is ﬁnished, it means that years of preparation will be needed for this to happen again. But there are some who are not afraid; an experience, all of a sudden! “Ah!...” Something altogether new, altogether unexpected, of which they never thought.  It is contagious, this I know.


The Mother: And it is the only hope, because if everyone had to go again through the same experience... Well, now I am ninety — at ninety people are tired, they have had enough of life. To do that one must feel young like a little child.  And it takes long, I see quite well that it has taken a long time.  And then, it is not done, it is being done, but it is not done — far from it — we are far from it....


The Mother: What is the percentage of conscious cells? One does not know.  And from time to time there are some that scold the others.  It is very amusing! They scold, they catch hold of them, tell them stupidities (in their way) — to those that want ( ) to continue the old habits: digestion must be done in a certain way, absorption in a certain way, circulation in a certain way, respiration in a certain way...


The Mother: all the functions must be done according to the method of Nature; and when it is not like that, they become anxious. And then those that know, catch hold of them and put them under heavy bombardment in the name of the Lord. It is very amusing!  Something is translated in words (it is without words, but there something is translated in words) and then there are conversations among the cells (): “Imbecile that you  are! Why do you have fear?


The Mother: Don’t you see it is the Lord himself who is doing this to transform you?” And the other: “Ah!...”  Then it remains quiet, and then opens itself and waits, and then... the pain goes away, the disorder goes away, and everything is put in order.  It is wonderful.


The Mother: But if by mischance the mind comes in, starts to help or judge, then the whole thing stops, and all fall back into the old habit.  ()  In reality, it is the ego, vital, mental, etc., all that has been, pouf! taken away.  It was a radical operation.  And so now, there is a kind of suppleness, plasticity.


The Mother: And all this is learning — it is very much in relation with the whole (), but it is learning to look for all its support, all its force, all its knowledge, all its light, all its will, all, all, like that (), solely like that, in an extraordinary plasticity.  And then, the splendour of the Presence.   I have some new photos, taken on the Darshan day. Photographs taken by a telescopic camera. They are not enlarged, they are as they were taken.


The Mother: ( )  I do not know, but at each Darshan I have the feeling that I am a different person, and when I see myself in this way, objectively, indeed I see a different person every time. Sometimes an old Chinese! Sometimes a kind of transposition of Sri Aurobindo, a veiled Sri Aurobindo, and then sometimes a person whom I know very well, but who is not this one: once I was like that.


The Mother: This has happened to me many times.  Isn’t it so!   Yes. And I too have the same feeling exactly.


The Mother: I look at it and I say: I know this person very well — but it has nothing to do with this body.  Indeed, it is very well known, but it is not this ( ); it is not here, but it is very well known.  One does not know for certain if it is a man or a woman, one is not sure.    I asked myself if it was not a being that lived in a world other than the physical world of earth.


The Mother: Because it is... I know, but not with the intimacy of bodily sensation; yes, it is someone whom I know very well, whom I have often seen.   Oh, yes! But I do not know if you have seen him in this world.


The Mother: ( ) You do not know that person?   Yes....


The Mother: Perhaps it is a picture. You are perhaps right. But which one, I do not see.  Someone who is very familiar to me, but... if I were told that it was a historical person, I would not be surprised.  It is strange.


The Mother: And it becomes more and more so. As the body catches the inner rhythm, this increases.  It cannot be a physical being.  What is it? We will know one day....


The Mother: Yes, but my impression is like this: someone I have known very intimately, with whom I have lived perhaps, but not me, you understand. That is to say, the body says: “It is not me.” Inside, it is quite different: there is no “I-you”, all that does not exist; but the body, it has still got that, it says: “This is not me, it is someone whom I know very well, very well, but it is not me.”   It can be two things. Perhaps the original consciousness divided into two in a past life (this has happened several times) and was manifested in two different bodies at the same time; and so there has naturally been an intimacy, probably even an intermixing of life — this may be a physical occurrence.


The Mother: But it may also be someone existing in a permanent way, in a permanent form somewhere with whom we are in constant contact in that world (overmental or supramental or other) and the feeling within is: yes, I know. It may be either of the two things, I do not know yet which one.  ( ) It is more an expression, a type of vibration, an atmosphere, more than exact features.


The Mother: Yes, it would be rather that, someone who exists in a permanent way somewhere and with whom we are in contact.  And that would explain this sensation of not knowing whether it is a man or a woman: it must be a being in an asexual world, where there is neither man nor woman.  ( )  The body by itself has more than a feeling, a kind of...


The Mother: it is a knowledge — more than a knowledge, it is a fact: there are many, many beings, forces, personalities who manifest themselves through it, even sometimes several at the same time. That is a very common experience; we know, for example, that Sri Aurobindo is there, he speaks and sees, he has his own way of seeing and expressing himself, that happens very often. And then often it is Durga or Mahakali or... very often. Often, it is a being from very high up, very permanent — very permanent — who manifests himself, and then there occurs a kind of absolute in the being. Sometimes it is beings from a plane nearby who try to make themselves felt, express themselves, but that is under control.


The Mother: The body is used to that.  And what was strange is that this time, the 24th, when I  went to the balcony, it was someone... (and this happens to me from time to time, but more and more often) someone who looks from a sort of plane of eternity with a great benevolence mixed in (something like benevolence, I do not know how to express it), but with an absolute calmness, almost indifference, and the two are together, looking like that ( ), as if it was seen from very far away, from very high up, from very—how to say it?—seen with a rather eternal vision.  It was that which my body was feeling when I came out to the balcony. The body was saying: “I must aspire, there must be an aspiration so that the Force may descend upon all these people”, and That, it was like this ().


The Mother: Oh!  Very benevolent but a sort of indifference — the indifference of eternity, I do not know how to explain it. And all this the body feels as though something were making use of it.  This is why these photographs interest me, it is to have the state objectiﬁed.  We shall know.


The Mother: The problem ﬁnally reduces itself almost to this: to replace the mental government of intelligence by the government of a spiritualised consciousness.  This is a very interesting experience: how the same actions, the same work, the same observations, the same relations with the environment (near and far) take place in the mind through intelligence, and in the consciousness through experience. And this is what the body is now learning, to replace the mental regime of intelligence by the spiritual government of consciousness. And this does bring about (it looks like nothing, you may not notice it), but it does bring about a tremendous difference, so much so that it increases a hundredfold the possibilities of the body.... When the body is subject to rules, even if they are broad, even if they are comprehensive, it is the slave of these rules, and its possibilities are limited by these rules.


The Mother: But when it is governed by the Spirit and the Consciousness, that gives it an incomparable possibility and ﬂexibility. And it is that which will give it the capacity to prolong its life, prolong its duration; it means the replacement of the intellectual government of the mind by the government of the Spirit, of the Consciousness — the Consciousness. Outwardly it does not seem to make much difference, but... my experience is this (because now my body no longer obeys the mind or the intelligence, not at all — it does not even understand how this can be done), but more and more, better and better, it follows the guidance, the urge of the Consciousness. And then it sees, almost every minute, the tremendous difference that this makes....


The Mother: For example, time has lost its value — its ﬁxed value. Exactly the same thing can be  done in a short time or a long time. Necessities have lost their authority. One can adapt oneself like this or like that. All the laws, these laws that were laws of Nature, have lost all their despotism, one might say; it is no longer as before.


The Mother: It is enough to be always, always supple, attentive and... “responsive” to the inﬂuence of the Consciousness — the Consciousness in its omnipotence — to pass through all that, with an extraordinary suppleness.  That is the discovery which is being made more and more.  It is wonderful, is it not? It is a wonderful discovery.  It is like a progressive victory over all the imperatives.


The Mother: Thus all laws of Nature, naturally, all the human laws, all the habits, all the rules, all that becomes supple and ends by being nonexistent. And yet one can maintain a regular rhythm that facilitates action — it is not contrary to this suppleness. But it is a suppleness in the execution, in the adaptation, that comes in and changes everything. From the point of view of hygiene, from the point of view of health, from the point of view of organisation, from the point of view of relations with others, all that has lost not only its aggressiveness (for it is sufﬁcient to be sane — sane and sober and calm — for it to lose its aggressiveness), but its absolutism, its imperative rule; it is all gone, it is gone.  So, one sees: as the process becomes more and more perfect — “perfect” means integral, total, leaving nothing behind — it is necessarily, inevitably, the victory over death.


The Mother: Not that the dissolution of cells which death represents does not exist, but it will exist only when it will be necessary: not as an absolute law, but as of the procedures, when it is necessary.  Above all, it is this: all that the Mind has brought of the rigid, the absolute, the almost invincible... will disappear. And simply that, by transferring the supreme power to the Supreme Consciousness.  Perhaps it is that which the ancient seers meant when they spoke of transferring the power of Nature or the power of Prakriti to Purusha, transferring it from Prakriti to Purusha.  It is perhaps that which they expressed in this way.


The Mother: Now I would have answered: it is as though you asked whether the Divine could withdraw from Himself! ( )  That is the trouble: when one says “Divine”, they understand “God”.... There is That: That alone exists.


The Mother: That, what is it? That alone exists!   ( )


The Mother: Even this morning, I was looking, seeing, and it was as though I was saying to the Divine, “Why do You take pleasure in denying Yourself?”... Is it not to satisfy our logic that we say: All that is obscure, all that is ugly, all that is not living, all that is not harmonious, all that is not divine — but how is it possible?... It is only an attitude for action. Then by placing myself in the consciousness of the action, I said, “But why do You take pleasure in being like that!” ()  It was a very concrete experience of the cells, and with the feeling (not feeling: neither feeling nor sensation), a kind of perception that you are just, just on the border of the great secret....


The Mother: All of a sudden a whole set of cells or a certain bodily function takes the fancy of going wrong — why? What meaning is there in that? And the response was... it was as though all that helped to break the limits.   But why, how? ...


The Mother: You can explain everything mentally, but that signiﬁes nothing at all: for the body, for the material consciousness it is abstract. The material consciousness, when it seizes something, it knows the thing than one can know it mentally. And when it knows, it has power: this gives the power.  And it is this that is worked out slowly, slowly — and for the ignorant consciousness, slowly and painfully. But for the true consciousness, it is not so: pain, delight, all this is a way... so absurd a way of seeing things — of feeling them, seeing them.


The Mother: There is a perception more and more concrete that everything... that there is nothing that does not contain the delight of being, because it is the of being: without the delight of being, there is no being. But it is not what we understand mentally by the delight of being. It is... something that is difﬁcult to say.  And this perception of suffering and delight, almost of evil and good, all this, these are necessities for the work, to allow the work to be done in a certain ﬁeld of inconscience. Because the true consciousness is something altogether, altogether different.


The Mother: And this, it is this which this consciousness of the cells is now learning, and learning through a concrete experience, and all these evaluations of what is good and what is bad, of what is suffering and what is delight, all this appears vague. But still the Thing — the Truth — the concrete Thing is not yet seized. It is on the way, one feels that it is on the way, but it is not yet that. If one had it... one would be the omnipotent master. And it is possible that one can get it only when the entire world or a sufﬁcient part of it will be ready for transformation.


The Mother: This is a speculation, one might call it an inspiration, but it belongs yet to the domain high above.  From time to time, it is as though one just touched upon the perception of the all-power: one is just on the point, ah! ( )... but off it goes.  When one will have that, the world will be able to change.


The Mother: And when I say “one”, I do not speak of a person.... There  is perhaps something which is equivalent to Person, but that... that also, I am not sure if it is not a projection of our consciousness upon something which escapes us.  Sri Aurobindo used to say always that if one went far enough, beyond the Impersonal, if one went further beyond, one would ﬁnd something that we could call “Person”, but which corresponded to nothing that we conceive of as “Person”.  So then there, there is only That; and it is That which has Power.


The Mother: But even when we say, “There is only That” ( ), we place it in some other thing!... Words, languages are unﬁt to express something that is beyond consciousness; as soon as you formulate, it sinks down.   You have the feeling that all the time — all the time — you are on the way towards a great discovery, and then you do make the discovery, and you ﬁnd out that it has always been made!... Only you look at it in another way.


The Mother: This morning, an experience that seemed to be an unusual revelation and... it is a thing that was always known. Then you mentalise it; the very moment you mentalise it, it becomes clear, but it is no longer what it was. Well, one may say that this creation is the “creation of equilibrium”, and it is just the mental error which wants to choose one thing and reject another.  All things have to be together: what you call good and what you call evil, what you call fair and what you call foul, what seems to you pleasant and what seems to you unpleasant, all this must be together.


The Mother: And this morning, it was the discovery of the Separation — this Separation which has been described in all sorts of different ways, sometimes as a story, sometimes merely in an abstract manner, sometimes philosophically, sometimes... all this, these are only explanations, but there is something, which probably is simply the Objectivisation ( ), but this also is a way of explaining. This so-called Separation, what is it exactly? One does not know. Or perhaps one knows, I don’t know.


The Mother: It is just That which has created (let us put it in colour) the black and white, the night and day (this is already a more mixed thing, but black and white also are a mixed thing), but the tendency is to put up two poles: the pleasant thing, the good  thing, and the unpleasant thing, the bad thing. But as soon as you seek to return to the Origin, the two tend to fuse into each other.  And it is in perfect equilibrium, that is to say, where no division is possible any more and where the one has no inﬂuence over the other, where the two are only one, that there is this famed Perfection which one is trying to reconquer.  The rejection of the one and the acceptance of the other is childishness. It is an ignorance.


The Mother: And all mental translations, like that of an Evil eternally evil, giving rise to the idea of Hell, and of a Good eternally good... all this, all, all are childishness.   ()  It may be (it be, because as soon as you want to formulate, you mentalise and as soon as you mentalise, it is reduced, diminished, limited, it loses the force of truth in the end) that in this universe as it is constituted, perfection is...


The Mother: ( ) . Words fail. One could say like this (it is dry and lifeless): It is the consciousness of the unity of the whole felt in the individual — felt, lived, realised. But that is nothing, these are nothing but words....


The Mother: The universe seems to have been created to realise this paradox of the consciousness of the whole, living (not merely perceived but lived) in every part, in every element constituting the whole.  Then as to the formation of these elements, it began by the Separation and it is the Separation which gave birth to this division between that one calls the good and the bad; but from the point of view of sensation — sensation in the most material part — one can say it is suffering and Ananda. The movement then is to stop all separation and realise the total consciousness in every part — which is from the mental point of view an absurdity, but it is like that.  For my taste it is much too philosophical, it is not sufﬁciently concrete; but the experience of this morning was concrete, and  it was concrete because it came out of extremely concrete sensations in the body, of the presence of this constant duality (in appearance), of an opposition (not merely opposition but the negation of the one by the other) between... we may take as a symbol suffering and Ananda.


The Mother: And the true state — which it seems impossible to formulate in words for the moment, but which was lived and felt — is a totality containing all, but instead of containing all as elements confronting one another, it is a harmony of all, an equilibrium of all. And when this equilibrium will be realised in the creation, this creation will be able to... (if words are spoken, it is no longer that) one could say: continue to progress without rupture (it is not that) .  There was also seen in the present imperfect consciousness, these days, repeatedly (but all that, methodical and organised through an organisation of the whole inﬁnitely superior to any we can imagine), a state


The Mother: which is the one determining the rupture of equilibrium, that is to say, the dissolution of the form, what is usually called “death”, and this state up to its extreme limit, as a demonstration — along with, at the same time, the state (not the perception but the state) preventing this rupture of equilibrium and permitting the continuity of the progress without rupture. And this gives in the body consciousness the simultaneous (so to say, simultaneous) perception of what one might call the extreme agony of dissolution (although it is not quite that, but still) and then the extreme Ananda of union — the two simultaneous.  Thus, translated in ordinary words: extreme frailty — more than frailty — of the form, and the eternity of the form.  And it is not merely union, but the fusion, the identiﬁcation of the two which is the Truth.


The Mother: When it is mentalised, it becomes clear for everybody — it loses its essential quality, something that cannot be mentalised.   Not divided. It is the union of the two states which makes the true consciousness, the union of the two — “union” still implies division — the identiﬁcation of the two which makes the true consciousness. And then one has the feeling that it is that, it is that consciousness, which is the supreme Power. Power is limited by oppositions and negations, is it not?


The Mother: — the most powerful power is the one that dominates most; but it is wholly an imperfection. There is, however, an all-powerful Power which is made of the fusion of the two. That is absolute Power. And if That was realised physically... probably it would be the end of the problem.  Indeed, during the few hours I lived like that this morning, the feeling was that everything has been mastered and everything understood — and “understood” in that way of comprehension which makes the power absolute.


The Mother: But naturally that cannot be said.  It is that which people who must have had the experience or a touch of the experience translated by saying that this world was the world of equilibrium: that is to say, it is the simultaneity, without division, of all contraries. As soon as there is some divergence — not even divergence, any difference — it is the beginning of division. And whatever is not that state cannot be eternal; it is that state alone which... not merely contains but expresses (or what?) the eternity.  There have been all kinds of philosophies that have tried to explain that, but it is up in the air, it is mental, it is speculative.


The Mother: But that, it is lived — “lived”, I mean: to that.  Yes, that is it. One might say that instead of being just a mental conception, it is a concrete realisation of the fact.   The doctor advises not to get tired. What is it that tires?


The Mother: Only that which is useless.  To see sincere people to whom it does good is not tiring.  But those who come to weigh theories and practices, those who in their intelligence believe they are very superior and are capable of distinguishing the true from the false, who imagine that they can decide whether a teaching is true and whether a practice agrees with the Supreme Reality — those are indeed tiring and to see them is useless, to say the least.   Let these beings of higher intelligence trot as they please on their way which will continue thousands of years and leave simple people of goodwill, those who believe in the divine Grace, to advance quietly on their path of light.


The Mother: It was interesting, my child. I have kept all these notes. We will go through them. It is not ﬁnished. It is not ﬁnished and I do not know when it will be ﬁnished.


The Mother: Have you news?  Many things are astir over there.... You know the happenings in Czechoslovakia?  It is on the move.


The Mother: A black boat?  I am sure the movement has started.... How long will it take to come to a concrete, visible and organised realisation? I don’t know.  Something has started....


The Mother: It seems it must be the onrush of the new species, the new creation, or a new creation in any case.  A terrestrial reorganisation and a new creation.  For me things became very acute.... It was impossible for me to utter a word, a single word: as soon as I began to talk, I  started coughing, coughing, coughing. Then I saw it was decided that I should not speak.


The Mother: And I remained in that way and I let the curve develop itself. Afterwards I understood. We are not at the end, but... (how to say it?) we are on the other side.  There was a moment when things were so acute.... Usually I do not lose patience, but it had reached a point where everything, everything in the being was as though annulled.


The Mother: Not only could I not speak, but the head was in a state in which it had never been in the whole of my life: painful, indeed. I did not see at all, I did not hear at all. Then one day (I will tell you my experiences presently), one day things were really... it was pain, suffering everywhere; the body said, it said indeed very spontaneously and very strongly: “It is all the same to me if I am dissolved, and I am also quite ready to live, but the state in which I am is impossible, it cannot continue — either to live or to die, but not this.” From that moment, it began to be a little better.


The Mother: Then, little by little things got settled, put in their places.  I took down notes, they are not worth much, but I believe they may be useful. ( .) I still do not see. I do not see, only I know.


The Mother: Yes, the world is being built, the future world is being built. I was no longer hearing, I was no longer seeing, I was no longer speaking: I was living within there, all the while, all the while, all the while, night and day. Then as soon as I was able to note down, I noted down that.  Yes, it is that. I will explain to you what happened.


The Mother: There is another note here which is the beginning: All by itself. All by itself. And it was then that I found out to what extent the vital and the mental make what we see and hear and speak. It was... I could see, in the sense that I could move, but it was all very imprecise.


The Mother: Imprecise. I could hear even less than before, that is to say, very little, just a little; sometimes the same as before; sometimes just a little sound, very far away, which others could not hear, I heard. And when they spoke to me, I did not hear them: “What do you say?” I do not know.  And that continuously, day and night.


The Mother: One night (it is to tell you that everything was topsy-turvy), but one night I had trouble. Something had happened and I had  a pretty severe pain and it was impossible to sleep. I remained concentrated in that condition and the night passed, it seemed to me, in a few minutes. Then at other times, on other days, at other moments, I remained concentrated, and from time to time I asked what time it was. Once it seemed to me that I had remained so for hours and hours, and I asked for the time: ﬁve minutes only....


The Mother: So everything seemed to be, I cannot say topsy-turvy, but it was a very different order, very different.  On the 23rd, it was the birthday of X. I had called him and he was seated. All at once, yes, all at once the head began to be active — not the “head”, not “thought” ( ); I do not know how to explain it: it was not a thought, they were a sort of visions, perceptions. And then I put to him some questions and he took them down.


The Mother: ( ) He has noted down only my questions, not his answers.  It was the physical that put the questions. I do not know, but probably in contact with the atmosphere of X, the body became interested in knowing how all that was formed. And X was there, I knew he could answer; so I put to him the questions.


The Mother: You see, these subjects that are considered so important, so vast, so noble, so... I speak of them in an altogether childlike tone and with quite ordinary words ().   They had no watches, you understand! It was the body, with the simplicity of a child, which said: “You speak of millions and millions of years; with what have you measured?”


The Mother: ( )  Yes, they are the Ah! I have had moments, twice or thrice, absolutely wonderful and unique moments — they are untranslatable, untranslatable.   You have the experience and then you become aware of having it; and as soon as you become aware of having it, it gets obscured, something gets obscured.  Yes, it seems to be like that.


The Mother: That day, the 23rd, I was still... I was still like pulp, my child!  So I told myself: to come out of this pulpy state and to become someone effective, someone who exists and acts, well, it will take long. That is what I told him.  Yes, I said it to console him!


The Mother: Well, last night, this is what happened ( ).   Penetration into the body. Yes, penetration of the current, I had had on many occasions, but that night (that is to say, the night before last), it came all of a sudden, as though there was nothing but a supramental atmosphere; there was nothing but that. And my body was within it. That was to enter, from everywhere, everywhere, everywhere at the same time — everywhere.


The Mother: So it was not a current that was entering, it was an atmosphere that penetrated from everywhere. That continued for at least four or ﬁve hours. And there was only one part that was penetrated, it was from here to there  ( ): there, it had a grey and dull look, as though the current penetrated less there.... But apart from that, all the rest, all...


The Mother: it entered and entered and entered.... I never, never saw anything like, never! It lasted for hours and hours. Altogether consciously.  So, at the time when it came and during the time it was there, I was conscious: “Ah, it is for that, it is for that: it is that, it is that which You want of me, O Lord!


The Mother: It is for that, it is for that, it is that which You want.” At that moment I had the feeling that was about to happen.  I hoped for its return this night, but nothing came about.  It was the ﬁrst time. For hours.


The Mother: There was nothing else but That. And this (), it was like an absorbing sponge.  Only the head, it is still grey, dull — grey and dull. But then, all the same, a very clear vision of whatever has happened to the body during these few months, and... almost a hope. Almost a hope, it is as though someone told me that something could happen here.


The Mother: That’s all.  And this, it was as though an answer to what the body had said (perhaps two or three days back), what I told you in the  beginning: that it was quite ready to get dissolved (it is a perfect surrender) and it was quite ready to continue to live, under any circumstances whatever, but not in that condition. Not in that condition of decomposition. To that, however, there was no answer for two days, and then there came this Penetration. That is to say, the very next day I began to feel a little better, I could begin to...


The Mother: I could not even remain standing! I did not have the sense of balance; someone had to hold me. I had lost the sense of balance, I could not take a step. It was there that I protested.  And from the next morning it began to recover.


The Mother: Then came the 23rd. I saw X and I noticed that when he was there the body was quite interested; no, it was not the mental or the vital: they had left! I do not know if you are able to realise what that means.  A body without the mind, without the vital. It was in that condition when X came in.


The Mother: There were only these perceptions (towns, buildings, temples), it lived in soul states: there were the soul states of others, the soul states of the earth, the soul states... Soul states that were translated by images. It was interesting. I cannot say it was not interesting; it was interesting, but there was no contact with material life, very little: I could hardly eat, hardly walk... in short, it was something with which one had to busy oneself.


The Mother: And then, at the contact of X, the body began to be interested in all that, to put questions quite spontaneously, it did not know why. It asked and asked: “Well, it is in that way that one is made...” So it began to amuse itself.  It will take a little time.  When this Penetration came, the day before yesterday, I said to myself: “Ah!”


The Mother: I hoped that the curve would get accelerated and one would come out soon, but this night there was nothing.  That makes me say that it will take some time more.   No, it is the most mentalised region, isn’t it? It is the mind that offers the obstacle.


The Mother: Yes, each time.  I know, it is so: the mental and the vital have been the instruments for... grinding Matter — to grind and grind and grind in every way, the vital by its sensations, the mind by its thoughts — to grind and grind. But they seem to me to be passing instruments that will be replaced by other states of consciousness.  You understand, it is a phase of universal development, and they will be... they will fall away as instruments no longer useful.


The Mother: And then I have had the concrete experience of what is this Matter ground by the vital and the mental, but the vital and the mental... it is another thing.  But this “perception of soul states”, there were things... marvels! No mental conception,, can be so wonderful, none.   I have passed through moments... whatever one can feel, see, humanly, is in comparison with that.