Self-sufficiency, what to/can/can't you grow and store?
I wanted to explore the concept.discussion copied and pasted below that was mentioned in another thread some more. I think this subforum is a good fit. For most of us in winter season, this is a good time to armchair noodle, too.
Imafan in Hawaii is in a situation that is not like most of us, and the "scary" is very real and I'm guessing the "we" in the last sentence refers to everybody on the Hawaiian islands (including the tourists?) Is this something that most are aware or something that is discussed among the intellectual gardening circles?
Rainbow's comment is a valid one, but it made me think about things that are hard to grow and things that we have become accustomed to having available year-around (wether tasty or not) due to importing from around the globe (well -- the other half of the hemisphere).
If you chose to be as self-sufficient as possible, it would be essential to stick to growing and eating seasonal fresh produce and preserving extra for off-season consumption. How would you preserve and store them?
Some things are not even possible or feasible to grow in our own garden. As a thought exercise, what would you have to cut out of your familiar.accustomed food (I'm thinking staple main grains like wheat flour for bread and pasta, or rice, would top this list) and what would be a viable alternative?
What would you consider growing and eating that you might not have considered... if you HAD to? And I want to acknowledge that there are the other, expanded homesteading/self sufficiency activities like beekeeping, poultry for eggs and.or meat and even larger livestock that you might consider but maybe restricted due to current living situation.area. Would you consider them IF there was no zoning restrictions?
imafan26 wrote: Space is a problem for most of the stores. Almost 90% of all goods have to be brought in by ship or air. That is 9 days at sea. Shipping here can cost more than the cost of the goods. Larger stores have their own containers and they buy in bulk. Smaller retailers and farmers have to buy from the larger retailers, ship on space available or act as a coop so they can share the cost of a container. There are also minimum buys so the retailer has to buy a minimum amount to make shipping it in profitable. That means that the retailers have to have a lot of storage space. Land and storage space is a premium, so when seasonal things like Christmas comes around, they have to make room to store it in the retail space and usually that is in place of the garden and outdoor furniture. Those orders get cut because the Christmas things take up the space in the container to ship it over and the storage areas once it gets here. In the mainland some companies shut down when midsummer rolls around because they have fewer orders all over the country so sometimes there isn't anyone to order from. Some of the garden catalogs and seed houses stop taking orders around May. I tried to order some chive seeds from Territorial a few weeks ago, but they said they would not send it until January when their new seed catalog comes out, and I needed the seeds a month ago. Some of the seeds in the current catalogs were back ordered and some are finally coming in now.
Its is scary, but if there is a major disaster that makes it hard to get planes or ships in and out of Hawaii, we have less than a month of food reserves, maybe only days for some things.
rainbowgardener wrote: Another reason you all should be growing your own. At least you have a year around growing climate.
...for bonus point, also think about gardening and preserving supplies that you are used to just buying -- what would.could you do if they were not readily available? What about water and electricity...?
Re: Self-sufficiency, what to/can/can't you grow and store?
We are working towards what self-sufficiency we can, knowing we will never be completely self sufficient.
We have two peach trees, two apple trees, and I hope two baby fig trees make it. I have planted a perennial bed with strawberries, rhubarb, asparagus, and want to add a couple artichokes in spring.
In spring we will be buying/making a chicken coop and obtaining 3-4 hens for eggs. We are considering a large fish tank for growing food fish, but that probably won't be in 2017. I want to plant an American hazelnut tree and perhaps another nut tree. I want to plant a hardy banana tree.
When I finish building all the garden beds, we will have about 500 sq ft of veggie beds. I grow a lot of herbs, mostly in pots on our 400 sq ft of deck, but also mixed in with the veggies.
I can, dry (especially the herbs), and freeze whatever we don't eat. I like to make big batches of something like lasagna, soup, etc and freeze half for later. But I doubt we are ever likely to have enough put by to get us through the winter and hens don't lay much in winter, either. So we will never be as independent in winter as in growing season. And what I don't see us ever producing is milk and dairy products, wheat and grains, citrus. (Also salt and black pepper and other spices). I will be looking for locally grown sources of dairy and grains.
I will be getting rain barrels to help with watering the gardens, but we will always be dependent on municipal water.
So doing pretty well, but not survivalists/ doomsday preppers.
I may have a big problem if things go wonky. I do not like most vegetables especially those I could grow if I wanted to. With our relatively short growing season there are many foods that can not be grown here. We do have fruit trees and freeze or can some of that but harvests are iffy at best. We do not raise livestock and don't really want to. I am a carnivore but not a hunter, so that is out. We freeze tomatoes, so if there is no electricity we are in trouble. Same with water, same with sewer.
I rely on the most efficient and cheapest food supply chain in the world. If things go badly in the world I would be one of the first casualties.
I used to live where there was a composting toilet and wouldn't mind going back to that, but water remains probably my biggest vulnerability.
Except for the rainy season, most of the time the weather is mild so we don't have any real heating costs. The Big Island is literally sitting on a volcano but very little is being done to tap the volcano for geothermal energy. We are very dependent on fossil fuels for electricity and each island is an island, when the power goes out, they used to have to restart the generator by running a line to the sugar mill. Now the mills are gone too, and the backup now are the military nuclear submarines to restart the generator. The cost of electricity is very high and has only come down recently because of the cheaper fuel prices. There is a minimum charge just to keep the account open even if you don't use any power. Many people are turning to solar panels, and the early birds got a big advantage because of the tax rebates and the utility buyback, their systems cost them only about $2000. However, as more people add solar to reduce their electric bills, it is increasing the bills of everyone else since the utilility has been increasing the charges for maintaining and upgrading the system. Solar users still use the generated power at night as most of the solar panels have no storage. Newer technologies are changing that, but now the utility has put a cap on the number of households in a neighborhood that will be allowed to go solar. Some areas have already reached the limit.
Being surrounded by ocean does have its perks. There is fish available but the fisheries have had moratoriums placed upon them to avoid having those areas be over fished. There is an expanding fish and aquaponic industry that can supply fish, but they still depend on imported fish food.
I can grow a lot of vegetables to supplement my diet year round, the most productive are sweet potato, chayote, papaya, moringa, eggplant, peppers, tomatoes, ung choi, NZ spinach, and bitter melon. Mainly because the plants yield a lot of fruit with little care over and extended time for the space they take, but also because the leaves, fruits, and flowers are also edible. Fruit trees like mango, avocado, breadfruit, lychee are seasonal but produce a lot of fruit that are good for trade and some can be preserved. I have a lot of potted citrus trees so I have some fruit nearly all year. I can also grow most of the herbs I use year round: rosemary, thyme, Jamaican oregano, ginger, green onions, lemon grass, and hot peppers.
Onions, potatoes, carrots, celery, flour, and rice are staples that I need to buy. I cannot grow a year round supply and they are not that easy to grow.
Some things can only be grown seasonally like peanuts,jicama, borage, nasturtiums, broccoli, Brussel's sprouts, and cabbages. Some like round cabbages and Brussels sprouts take up a lot of space for their yield and space is always a premium.
Everything I need to grow plants from the potting soil, fertilizer, tools, and some pest control needs to be imported. I can get locally made compost but the pH is 8.13 and too high for 2 of my plots. I do vermicomposting so I recycle my kitchen scraps. I don't have the space or enough browns to get a pile to heat up to the thermophillic range. I also don't have the space for a compost pile. I don't like it at my house because it attracts too much vermin and it would be too close to the house.
Water here is primarily from artesian wells. In storms our wells are usually not at risk the way that Majuro,Saipan, and Guam are. I just have to pay ridiculously high sewer charges. My water bill is usuall $20-$30 a month but the sewer charges are almost $100 a month.
Modern self-sufficiency is darn near impossible. A second or third generation would be faced with the most primitive of technology. Culture develops over generations or it regresses. Hunters and gatherers and subsistence farmers are highly skilled. With limited specialization, individuals have to be jacks of all trades. The learning curve for someone from a developed country would be steep!
I grew up on farms and as a young person tried to live even more simply but I needed some money for the tractor, pickup, other equipment, clothing, etc. Having enough food wasn't too much trouble but I was eating a lot of meat and eggs, drinking milk, and I grew rather exhausted from all the winter stew and cabbage rolls. I didn't can and still don't. There was a cellar and I didn't have much trouble in a northern Idaho climate keeping meat through the winter, outdoors. Under my bed, it was cover to cover winter squash . Summers, I had "store-bought" food as I was busy on neighboring farms. I never had a flour mill but could reach into the bin of a combine and scoop out as much wheat as I could have carried away ... I did buy wheat for the chickens from the farmers.
My DW much prefers fresh vegetables and fruit to canned, frozen or dry. We have annual gardens on the property of friends. Here at home is a small greenhouse, a few garden beds, some raspberry vines, and a peach tree. With a few square feet of lawn and some flowers, we have filled the space available on our lot. Elsewhere, we have access to all the ground we could possibly make use of for gardening but I joke that we sell vegetables through the summer so that we have $ to buy broccoli in the winter. That's only half in jest.
I think it is TERRIBLE that the utility company can forbid people to put up solar panels. However, they can only do that for people who still want to be on the grid -- basically selling the power they generate to the utility, then buying some back during off hours.
The utility has no way to stop anyone from being OFF the grid. With the Tesla PowerWall and other power storage technologies, it is getting easier to do that. Instead of selling your excess power generated to the grid then buying it back later, you just store it for off hours.
The big problem with off-grid power is the battery bank that is required for use when the sun isn't shining. It takes a lot of expensive batteries to have a back-up that can power heavy duty equipment. And batteries don't last as long as they should for the price. We've bought ups systems that cost a few hundred $$$ and end up failing within a few years. It's a lot of money to toss into the trash every few years. Even my solar powered lights with built in batteries don't last more than a few years and the ones where you can replace the batteries never work once the batteries are replaced. Not to mention that even regular flashlight type batteries that are rechargeable don't last very long either, even when properly recharged.
The next item on my shtf wishlist is a hand pump for the well. Yes, we've got water available within easy carrying distance but that's all surface water. The water is still stored under the earth but a hand pump makes it easily accessible.
We're still in the process of figuring out which fruits, vegetables, and nuts would be best for our situation. I know I won't be growing almonds or pecans or bananas here any time without a major climate shift. Black walnuts are already on site and producing. Hopefully the hickory trees start to produce soon. But so many times I end up losing entire crops to animals. Something has cleaned out my figs and apples a few times. Deer ate all the melons one year. Squirrels get the peaches every year. Birds have totally devoured every single grain crop I have ever grown (except the amaranth which is really difficult to harvest and thresh). And the groundhogs eat whatever they can get their grubby paws on, even standing on their hind legs to eat plants in pots. Of course that means I've got plenty of meat walking around in the yard just waiting to be placed in the frying pan.
There's not enough land for large livestock so I cannot produce my own milk or cheese. I would have some sort of poultry if that wasn't against local zoning regulations. Pigeons aren't considered to be livestock and are perfectly legal but I have to build a coop for them. A hydroponic fish pond isn't really possible but I have access to the fish in a nearby major stream. I have considered raising prawns but would have to build a pond for them and I'm not sure that would be making the best use of my limited growing space.
RE: The big problem with off-grid power is the battery bank that is required for use when the sun isn't shining. It takes a lot of expensive batteries to have a back-up that can power heavy duty equipment. And batteries don't last as long as they should for the price.
I don't know what you mean by "heavy duty equipment" but it should run most of our household. We might have to be careful about big power draw items like space heaters when working off the battery. But we want to put a wood stove in our lower level for supplemental heat anyway. All this technology is getting better and cheaper all the time.
Trying for self-sufficiency with produce is interesting, and has several main factors.
Household? How many, diet wants and restrictions? I'm now at just me for regular meals, so hard to get real excited about different veggies in the garden and putting stuff up. Back a couple of lifetimes ago, we were in southern IL, near Carbondale, had 2 young kids, hubs in grad school (IOW limited budget). We went for the garden, he helped till, do heavy, and I did the rest. Between freezing and canning, and eating fresh 6 months did OK. We were near orchards so I bought apples and peaches to freeze.
Time? If you work and are the main gardener and preserver is difficult and stressful.
Climate. Discussed above by others.
Locale and situation. I'm a vendor at a farmers market most Saturdays, so have access to whatever-is-fresh. If there's something I really want, pick out early. Otherwise usually wait until closing and most of us selling at discount, trading, gifting. I'm usually next to an orchard vendor, and have brought home plenty of bruised peaches and apples! I don't eat many eggs (probably should eat more) and can usually get at the market $5/dz.
Just some thoughts from the mid-south. 2016 rainfall about 60", slightly above average, and starting 2017 wet.
Chattanooga ended the year with 34.6" of rain, but only because we got 5" in December. Up until 1 Dec, we had 29.5 " Average here is 52" a year, so even with wet Dec, we ended up quite a bit short. Jan starting out wet too. It is really good that the trees are going into winter well hydrated.
The nearest Weather Service Station with annual average records (Spokane, WA) tells us that there was 18.30 inches of precipitation here in 2016. This was a little above average and about 4 inches more than in the last few years when the area was in drought conditions.
Still, it was a very dry growing season. We started out fairly well and, after the frosts, there was a record amount of rain in October. The last month, it has been somewhat snowy but we are again falling short of average for precipitation.
This area is near the borders of the evergreen forests. I worry about the obvious stress the pine trees show just a little further west but we are supposed to have more snow this winter with the La Niña conditions.
I prefer my vegetables fresh. I have actually gotten spoiled by having fresh vegetables that I only buy a few frozen or canned ones. Canned corn, pumpkin, beans, and tomatoes are the ones I usually buy. I rarely buy fresh tomatoes but I eat all the corn I have fresh so there is nothing left to can and I have tried freezing, but it does not taste quite the same. I used to buy more canned vegetables, like beets, spinach, peas and carrots, asparagus, and occasionally green beans, but now I find they are too salty and soggy. I actually have a couple of pounds of cowpeas (pink and black eyed peas). I grew them primarily as a cover crop but I saved a lot of seeds. I really haven't tried cooking with them.
I have gotten used to planning meals around what is available in the garden so much that now that I don't have a lot growing, I am finding out how much I was actually saving by not having to buy as much produce (and how much better it is fresh). I am going back to my old way of eating which is more meat and starch based and I find that I have gotten used to eating a lot less meat that I actually find a meat rich diet to be too heavy. I have been eating vegetable based stir fries and stews with very small quantities of meat for so a long time. Not to say that I am ready to go all vegetarian, I would still miss the flavor that meat adds to a dish, I just don't really need to have a lot of it anymore. I plan my meals around the squash or eggplant I have growing rather than around the protein. On some days and nights, when I don't have anything prepared, I will make omelette, baked potato, or ramen a meal. I use a lot of eggs and I think I would miss that, but I usually keep a lot of canned goods around so I could actually live off that for some time. I usually keep an extra bag of cat food around so I would have a month of cat food for the cats on hand all of the time. My problem is less not having enough, but actually hoarding so much that I end up having to throw a lot of it away because I don't use it in time. I have been trying to work on that part, and I have made some progress but I still have 2 refrigerators and a chest freezer packed to the top and a small mountain of canned goods even though I have made a concerted effort to buy less.
I do save a lot of seeds from my garden. Some I have to save since the seeds are not that easy to find. I have gotten seeds in trade and every year I take a couple of months to decide what I seeds to buy since I have a bulging seed bag and this year my seed wish list is around $230 and I have to cut that down some more. This year I did toss out some seeds that were over 5 years old and some seeds that failed the germination test.
My soil tests indicate that I only need nitrogen for most of the plots at least for a couple of years more. Twenty lbs of sulfate of ammonia lasts a few years. Slug bait though is very costly $58 for 20lbs and it has to be applied every two weeks so it doesn't go far. Getting quality compost and potting soil is where most of the garden costs are going. Even black plastic costs over a $100 for a 100 ft roll. I have to replace some of the older pots that have become to brittle to use and it is very expensive to buy bigger pots and today's pots just don't last as long.
Heavy duty equipment, anything that draws a lot of current. Electric range, baseboard heat, well pump, sump pump, water heater, washer, etc. I didn't see anything on their site that allowed a potential buyer to rate their system size with usage as a factor. Only the number of bedrooms which isn't a good estimate of use. But according to their site we would need 2 powerwalls. And to plan for our common late winter weeks on end of cloudy weather we would probably need more than 2 if we wanted to go off-grid. This is even with the use of our wood burning stove and passive solar heat. You'll notice I didn't include a clothes dryer in heavy duty equipment. The nice thing about wood heat is that you can set up drying racks near the stove and dry laundry on them. The moisture from line drying is not the horrid monster that putting your dryer exhaust into the house is.
While we burn wood for heat we really have no way of being able to produce enough of our own wood to keep the house heated. I've got a few trees that need to be cut down but even by cutting and splitting all of them it wouldn't be enough to heat the house for more than a couple years. Unfortunately none of those trees are maple so there's no chance of getting sap for syrup.
One thing about trying to reduce your footprint and burning wood is the huge amount of ash that wood produces. When we burn pallets and waste wood we usually throw the ashes in the trash since it's so hard to remove all the nails even with a good magnet. Ashes without nails can be spread on the lawn or garden (but you have to be careful not to put too much ash in the garden because it can change your pH).
My grandparents grew most of the food we ate. We had chickens and cows and a lot of their food was grown on the farm. The garden was a huge plot and we had a huge old grape vine and the strawberry patch was bigger than my medium garden. In the woods there were wild berries and mushrooms and black walnuts. We had a pond with fish and the creek was full of crawdads. Too bad grandpa didn't know how to fix crawdad because it's really good and he would have loved it. Even then we bought food we couldn't produce.
A few years ago I had a beautiful salad garden in the basement. I had 3 different types of lettuce and ate salad every couple days for weeks. I put potting soil in milk jugs with the top cut off and planted lettuce in them and set them under a bank of lights. No bugs, no groundhogs, it was the best salad garden I ever grew.
Instead of burning fuel 24/7 to keep water hot all the time for the one hour (or whatever) a day that you use it, it heats the water only as needed.
The new generation of high efficiency wood burning stoves and fireplaces are very low emissions.
"Some models on display used computer technology, gas-flow analyses or catalytic converters to reduce emissions and increase efficiency. An entry from the University of Maryland used a thermoelectric generator (TEG) — which derives energy from the heat of the stove — to power a fan that pulled warm exhaust air back into the stove, improving efficiency while also conserving heat.
While Woodstock Soapstone's winning design, dubbed the Ideal Steel, isn't yet available to the general public, when it does go to market (sometime later this year), it should retail for less than $2,000. That amount could represent a considerable energy savings for people who live in cold climates and/or drafty houses. And a federal tax credit, as well as some state and local government incentives, make wood stoves an even more attractive alternative. "
Besides being less polluting than the average furnace, these high efficiency stoves make a little bit of wood go a long way.
To approach self-sufficiency, we can't just try to go back to our grandparents time. We need to also use the best of new technology.
How should I store dried tomatoes?