These are definitely fantastic speakers... as for the comparison between Aperion vs SVS, I'll be able to give you my honest assessment in about 2 weeks. Yes, the SVS Atmos system review is finally underway!
I can tell you this... if you're looking for a very refined sounding two-channel experience – something with a sound that likes to remove itself from he picture – then Aperion is a great choice. I have a ton of respect for Aperion's effort and appreciate the experience their speaker delivers. As I said in the review, I've had a ton of fun listening to music with the Verus II Towers. Great sound stage with depth and width... and the sound didn't feel forced across highs, mids, and lows. Add to that, the Verus II's stunning looks and the free trial period, and you have a speaker that's easy to recommend!
margin, but it was still a cool event and I really enjoyed the only factory audio demo I've ever been to.
I'll be pairing whatever I get with two subs, most likely being the SB 4000 or SB Ultra 16's. I want to get the most accurate, best sounding fronts I can for well under $3K, if possible. I realize the M100's are 3 grand but don't want to do that unless I feel it's my best bet which in turn will probably put my surrounds on the backburner for a while.
As I side note, I'm willing to go with very high power for the mains and am seriously considering class D for all channels or maybe just the mains and run the rest off a Marantz receiver, for instance.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I read a lot of contradictions online and it can become confusing and frustrating.
Alright, let me see if I can answer some of your questions with some fairly straight talk answers.
I have to be honest – I don't remember if I mentioned comparing the Aperion and SVS speakers (or if I ever did so ;-)... I may have!
So, you're asking about the 3's vs the Ultras using the 2's as a guideline.... First off, the Verus and Ultra are, visually, very different speakers. In terms of room presence, I have to give the nod to Aperion. They just ooze this gorgeous high-end finish. No knock on the Ultra (note: I ended up buying Ultra's for my home theater room). But the Aperion finish is realllllly nice. They're lookers.
In terms of performance, the Verus II and Ultra really are different speakers. If I were to characterize the two: the Aperions are a very smooth and nuanced speaker that has a slightly (emphasis: slightly) tamer (possibly more detailed?) high end and a little less power in the low end. The 3s could be different in the low-end category... not sure... but the 2's, from my experience, have a little less punch than the Ultras.
The Ultra is very much a jack of all trades speaker that has a high end that's a little brighter (but not sharp or uncontrolled) high end complimented by great low-end power.
You mention the Ultra's low-end was a little less than impressive during your demo experience. I'd immediately want to know: did your retailer have the rear-firing port plugged or unplugged? Personally, for me, I've plugged the port. I found the open port to be a tad too loose (remember, though, that's for my particular room. Yours could be different!).
Bottom line, SVS makes awesome products. You can't go wrong with them. If i were you, I'd go back to that dealer and take some demo material with you. Pay close attention to how they have them setup... and see if they have the ports plugged. Of course, so much comes into play with the plugs (especially room size and proximity to boundaries)... but for me, those plugs went in and never came out (tightness!!!). Also, SVS gives you a free 45 day in-home trial. You can't lose with that!
The Aperion Verus 2 is an impressive speaker. If I were looking squarely at 2-channel performance, I'd give it a really good look. And in looking at the Verus 3 specs, I'm totally intrigued. The sound from Aperion is just a little more laid-back, if that makes sense. And you're going to be pairing these speakers with sealed subs. So, for me, that immediately puts the focus on high-end performance. Both the Ultra and Verus are great, but they're different. I hate to characterize the two, because I don't want anyone to pigeon hole these speakers as one thing or another based on what I'm typing, but I think it comes down to the Ultras being a little sharper and the Verus being a little more mellow in the upper frequencies. My ears prefer the sharper... but i really REALLY liked the more mellow sound of the Verus.
Unfortunately, I've never heard the other two speakers you're looking at... but Axiom's are definitely worth investigating (I've handled some of their gear). Great, passion company.
Subs: those SB-16 subs are sooooooo great. I have two in my home theater. They deliver the goods with such finesse and grace...well built... great technology. I'd add those to my Home Theater 1,000 times over and never think twice about it. GREAT GEAR. If they work in your budget and you aren't trying to fill a massive room... do it. You won't regret it.
I agree on your receiver/amp thoughts. I'll always run my front three with power from a standalone amp (I'm not shy about Class D either)... and happily leave the rest to be controlled by a receiver. For most applications and systems, it's perfect.
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Yes, the Ultra Towers have a single rear port. The boominess you heard could be any number of things, including what you noted... the room and speaker position have a big effect on what you hear. That port is going to allow the low-end to extend a little further with a more shallow roll off. When plugged, you get a sharper roll off and a little less extension... but the bass also appears to be a bit punchier and less loose (at least to my ears).
That Steve Feinstein excerpt is interesting. I'm not a designer (and don't have that kind of background to draw from), so I can't really comment on the accuracy/validity of his comments. He very well is probably correct, technically speaking, but I can't imagine design engineers would introduce any sort of modification that would have a notable adverse effect on output. It could be a case of technicality versus what the human ear ultimately perceives.
I plugged the ports on the Ultra Towers for straight 2-channel performance, as I found it sounded better in my theater room. For me, the bass is still there, it just lends to a tighter and more accurate low-end (my opinion, of course). Just as background: my entire rig is really built around home theater duty (first) and 2-channel (second). When I watch movies, subs are engaged. I also primarily listen to music with subs engaged... but I'll also switch over to a straight 2-channel mode that has no subs and Towers playing at full range.
You're asking if I think there's a detriment to plugging ports... I guess the detriment could be weaker bass performance in larger rooms. Of course, I (personally) would subscribe to plugging ports on speakers that don't ship with foam plugs. As for that quote about the PB Ultras... I don't believe anyone plugging the ports on that sub is going to find output becomes noticeably poor. In terms of ultimate output, the two subs might not play exactly alike if compared side by side... but the Ultra has the benefit of being tuned to a specific room or likeness once its in a home. Meaning an owner might find that two ports open is just a tad too loose (so they can pop in a plug and tighten things up a bit).
The position of a speaker's port ultimately shouldn't effect output, but can be a problem if you jam it against a wall. Sometimes port noise is less audible if its on the rear of a speaker (as opposed to the front), which could be good reason for putting it on the front. Also, I'd imagine some position the port on the rear because of room (or lack there of it) on the speaker's baffle.
Generally speaking, you want your speakers out and away from room boundaries (as much as possible). Some folks have amazing amounts of space and can accommodate speakers being placed far away from a wall. Others (like me) struggle to find space but do they best they can.
I'm curious... if these speakers are going in your family room, might you consider something like GoldenEar's SuperCinema 3D Array XL? (I reviewed it here). I think I'm about to pull the trigger on the smaller version of this. When paired with a sub, this soundbar (don't let that word scare you off) throws insane imaging. I was literally blown away by its performance capabilities.
The position of a speaker's port ultimately shouldn't effect output, but can be a problem if you jam it against a wall.
Yes. The location of the port should not be an issue because all the surfaces of a domestic speaker are usually within a wavelength of the relevant frequencies. The only concern is whether something blocks the pressure flow from the port and a foot or so of clearance should be entirely sufficient for that. That said, I like speakers with their own pedestals and bottom ports so that the load on the port is determined by design.
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I believe it is a band-aid because the port is a critical component in the proper system performance. I cannot imagine the use of a plug is optimum.
OTOH, if speaker placement already is compromising the function of the port, I see no reason not to try the plug and see if it helps. I try to avoid buying speakers with rear ports if they are to be used where the ports cannot to their job..
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I agree, Kal. If the subwoofer's design was to have the port be open then that's the way it should be used.
I think you're right about the tiny bit of boominess I heard. I really didn't pay that much attention to the way the speakers were positioned, but thinking back I remember them being close to the wall and the SVS reps had everything set up to awe people in the theater mode and running them in two channel for music was only done briefly at my request. If I had it to do over again, I would ask the reps more of the type of questions I'm asking on here, but at that time, even though it was just a few weeks ago, I didn't know what I know now. (or more accurately I didn't know enough then to realize how much I don't know now ) They were running the subs at 120Hz which I didn't care for either, but I realize why they do it like that. All in all it just wasn't a demo geared for people judging two channel music mode. They did have one setup in a room that consisted of the Ultra bookshelves and one SB 3000 running in stereo and it sounded fantastic.
I'm curious, did you ever try running your towers with the ports plugs out and high passing them at different frequencies? Say 50Hz or 45 or 55? I'm wondering if they'd lose that little bit of inaccuracy you described? I'm just trying to get an idea of what different combinations are possible to attain a desired effect.
You mentioned the positioning of a speakers ports and what you said makes perfect sense. Port chuffing is probably the reason for most being in the rear as you said.
The GoldenEar's are interesting, I never looked at those before.
He very well is probably correct, technically speaking, but I can't imagine design engineers would introduce any sort of modification that would have a notable adverse effect on output. It could be a case of technicality versus what the human ear ultimately perceives. Very good points!
I can't remember all of the various iterations of operational modes that I ran the towers through... but I'm guessing I probably settled on ports closed for 2-channel and left it that way once the subs were integrated. I'd hazard to guess that the towers set to small with a crossover in the 50-80hz range would end up sounding pretty much the same whether open or closed. I'd go through the process of doing that for you right now, but my entire basement, including my home theater room, are torn to shreds for a renovation that's ending sometime in march! All my gear is in storage.
Your experience with whatever speaker you choose will be largely dependent on your room, tho... that's one reason why the free in-home trial is such a great thing.
It's funny you mention the Ultra Bookshelves... when I wrote the Ultimate SVS Ultra Atmos System review, I spent considerable time listening to the Bookshelf model in 2-channel mode. I loved it. In fact, my memory is telling me that the Bookshelves threw a slightly better image than the Towers. It was really - really - good. You could pull together a killer (not to mention, highly affordable) system with Ultra Bookshelves and a sub.
I believe that SVS's latest iteration of sub models all have multiple DSP modes for their subs, which can be used for various operational modes. That probably corrects for changes in tuning...?
Very good point, Todd. Theoretically I'm guessing the DSP would/should correct for various modes of operation. So if the port were plugged the DSP would make the necessary corrections to allow the sub to still sound awesome.
This sort of reminds me of the room correction technology that LINN uses for their active speaker room correction called Space Optimisation. It's pretty fascinating if you have yet to experience it. No matter where you place your speakers in the room...every wall can even be made of glass and metal..and the software will tune the speaker to sound as if you were in a proper mixing studio. My local showroom swears by the LINN Space Optimisation tech.
Since we're on the subject of ports, plugging ports and issues with rear ports due to possibly being too close to a wall, do you guys know of any $2-3k towers that are sealed? In all the speakers I've looked at, I don't think I've run across a single sealed acoustic suspension tower. It's a wonder more companies aren't making a speaker like that with the way sub technology has taken off, and affordability has become mainstream, allowing people to not worry about taxing their mains with the lowest frequencies. Maybe I'm getting to hung up on associating ports with loose bass, but I'd think an acoustic suspension speaker being delivered very high power from today's D class amps would be much easier placed in a multi purpose room? Or maybe I'm thinking of this all wrong?
I noticed in the reviews Wayne (AudiocRaver) https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/a...ent-tower-speakers-1200-or-less-results.1640/ did on several towers priced $1200 or less, most, if not all, had issues when in close proximity to a rear wall. I know he said he didn't use plugs in any of the tests (and maybe that would have helped some of them) but why not make a sealed version of at least one line of speakers? What would a tower speaker possibly gain and lose from this? I'm assuming it would lose very low frequency spl, but would possibly gain tightness and accuracy?
I'm just trying to understand and get a better grasp on speaker designs. Anyone?
Interesting, I wish I could find more reviews on them.
It is not an acoustic suspension design as those rear diaphragms (I hesitate to call them drivers since they lack voice-coils and magnets) act as mass-loaded ports. To quote the referenced review: "Positioning is crjtical, but only because of the rear-firing ABRs in this ............ while Quad claims that these passive, rear-firing bass units support the main drivers to extend bass response down to 35Hz'"
Ah, I see. So even though they don't physically resemble conventional ports the rear diaphragms actually try to mimic what a port is supposed to accomplish, but maybe with even more extended bass? Is this correct?
Not necessarily "with even more extended bass" but it gives the designer more tools.
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I don't think I've run across a single sealed acoustic suspension tower.
One of highly regarded speakers in the under $1200 thread was the Chane A5rx-c. Chane has a new and hopefully available soon, SEALED 7 driver tower having 4 6.5" woofers and 2 midranges and tweeter in an MTM arrangement.
My interest in this speaker also started because of the sealed design due to a small room and close boundaries. That and a set of their A2.4 that I really like.
For myself, just my opinion, I don't think I'd ever buy a ported sub. I heard side by side comparisons of the SVS SB and PB 4000 series at a demo I went to a few weeks ago and I immediately said to the guy I was with, 'I'm sold on the sealed box' and he agreed, even though on our way to this demo, he told me he'd never buy sealed because you get more bang from ported. The guy was playing a movie track and of course the sealed wasn't quite as loud, but it sure sounded better/tighter. That's why I'm asking so many questions about ported tower speakers. I guess it's not nearly the factor it is on subs, but it's still a factor and since I could easily have over 800 watts a channel from a Class D amp, efficiency wouldn't be the factor it used to be. I'm hoping D class is going to allow manufactures to start designing speakers for the tightest, best accuracy possible, without worrying so much about having to advertise close to or over 90db efficiency.
JStweart, I looked through that thread you linked and I didn't see where it says the L7 is a sealed acoustic suspension speaker. Could you direct me to that info please? I read some of the info I read about these speakers and I must say I'm very anxious to see how this L7 performs. It sounds as though they put several years and a ton of effort into designing this new line. Four 6.5" woofers in each tower..... Should be interesting.
JStewart you can disregard my previous post. I just learned plenty speaking to John, one of the designers of the new Chane L7 speaker. First of all I was wrong to refer to sealed speakers as if they are also always acoustic suspension. That's incorrect and as I've stated before on this forum, I'm new to this and just learning all I can. The L7 will be out for sale by March or April at the latest and is indeed a sealed speaker. (no porting at all) It's sensitivity is 91.5 db. They're using a newer higher tech driver motor for the 4 6.5 inch woofers that are geared towards more accuracy than the splitGap motors used in their previous models. More accuracy may have translated to slightly less db, hence the use of 4 woofers brining the sensitivity to the level of, or even higher than, most ported designs.
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