Discussion in 'Modding' started by Privateer, Sep 22, 2016.
Cossacks covers almost all of the 'early modern period', however we're missing the 1500s!
In the original game we had an expansion which touched upon it slightly with the Swiss nation and their 16th century-based units, however there's a wealth of 16th century things we could implement to the whole game!
Many of the nations in Cossacks have a decent history in the beginning of the early modern period, 16th century, which in Cossacks terms, more units!
The rise of pirates - preying on Spanish treasure ships. Rise of Francis Drake.
Coming back to the game-side of things, I would propose the starting age to be the 16th century, with a new building available - the 16th Century Barracks, which would provide new, early units.
We would also introduce initially a new nation - Scotland. They have their own units and buildings, until they upgrade to the 18th century, where they become Great Britain (the original England will also become GB in the 18th C too).
Demi-Lance - a lighter Man-at-Arms, though still considered heavy cav. Half the armour with a light lance.
Halberdier - Used to help break up the 'push of the pike' - these units are great against infantry and have a slight advantage against cavalry (not as much as pikes). Unarmoured.
Armoured 16th Century Pikemen. Pikemen in this age were well respected and powerful. Musketeers were not the limelight yet! These Armoured Pikemen take longer to train than the 17th c pikemen and more expensive, though they are more armoured and generally more powerful.
Arquebusier [Light Infantry]- these soldiers are the earliest 'musketeer' type available. They are armoured and armed with a handheld firearm called the arquebus. The arquebus was a light firearm so their firepower is quite a bit lower than a musket and their range is shorter. These guys do have a sword for emergency melee. They are the fastest training 'shooter' type.
16th century Musketeer - Muskets in this era were heavy and needed a gun-rest to prop them up, however they fired at a longer range and were far more powerful than Arquebusiers.
Caliverman [Light Infantry - Skirmisher] - The Caliver were a more refined Arquebus and were even lighter. Calivermen were used as skirmishers. In game they can be put in skirmish (i.e. loose) formation and used to screen your army and scout ahead.
Mounted Arquebusier - An early dragoon-like unit. Short range and not particularly powerful, but very handy to pepper enemy forces! These later became known as Harquebusiers.
16th Century Cuirassier - Armoured with firearms and sword.
Light field guns - Sakers, Falconets.
Horse Archers - available to the more Eastern European nations such as Poland.
Longbowmen - these were available at the begining of the 16thC and have excellent range and rate of fire, however are costly and take a long time to train. Very weak against armoured units.
Crossbowmen - Early 16th C ranged unit. Very weak against armoured units.
There are most likely many, many more to list.
There's a huge amount of unique unit possibilities here - Border Reivers (Light cav with lance for England and Scotland - available in 17thC too), Landschneckt two-handed swordsman/arquebusier/pikemen (mercs), Stradiots (Albanian merc light cav), Caravels, Carrack, Galleon, Race-built Galleon (English), Swiss Pikemen (mercs), Gallowglass (Scots mercs), Billmen (English melee unit). Lots more to mention.
To be followed up with the Spanish!
Thanks for the links - yep miniatures are also a good source!
I'm going to use this thread as a little bit of a 'picture gallery' as it will make a good place to store all references Eventually when I get up to scratch with modding again, I may start trying my hand at the models/textures!
I would really love to see a 16ty century with arquebusiers, longbowmen and crossbowmen, old hallebardiers and stuff, that's a great idea you have to work on it ! And remember, at the time arquebuses were heavy and couldn't be used by cavalry or very few. The system was hackbut's fire system that means you can even do an animation with the drill burning before the shot and reloading time was very slow (1 shot per minute). Artillery was really primitive and slow. Crossbowmen were still used a lot. Tercios have to be included.
All great suggestions, though I'd argue and say at the time Arquebuses/Hackbuts were a lot lighter than the newer, heavier Muskets (which required a rest/stand) and there were even lighter, new Arquebusess called Calivers.
I just love the whole medieval transitioning into modern aspect - full armour and cannons!
I've not had a lot of spare time recently, however hopefully sometime later this year I can take a proper hands-on look at it.
Great ! I also have to say that I love your Hornblower skin !
It's a profile picture, not a skin.
nice idea but if 17c muskets are useless against 17c pike what use would 16c muskets have?
Muskets were introduced in tbe late 17th Century, 16th Century had the "arquebus".
Sorry, this is incorrect - Arquebuses and Muskets coexisted throughout the 16th Century.
Muskets appeared in European forces around 1521 and the lighter Arquebuses only completely vanished mid 17th century when Muskets became light enough to not need stands.
Ah, alright then. Damn misleading wikipedia.
This would be a balance issue.
Pikes from the 16th to the 17th century generally came in two flavours - armoured and unarmoured, so I would want to see this happen for both century barracks ingame. (Unarmoured) Pikes would have the same training speed as the current generic ones, however as they have no armour they are a lot easier for shooters to kill off. Armoured Pikes would be the Pikes we have now, however have a far longer training time, plus costlier. This way the main mobs of early pikes will most likely be Unarmoured Pikes which when faced with unchanged 17thC muskets (whether sprinkled in with your own pikes or on their own) against them will not be an insta-win.
16thC Pikemen - High Attack - Unarmoured - High Health - Medium training - Medium Cost - Heavy Melee Infantry. The most common Melee unit, with it's reasonable cost, high health and good attack.
16thC Armoured Pikemen - High Attack - High Armour - High Health - Slow training - High Cost - Armoured Heavy Melee. Slower to train (and slower marching), but the best melee defense.
16thC Sword & Bucklermen (Medium attack, High Armour - Medium Health - Medium Cost - Medium Melee Infantry units with a bonus against Pikes. Quick on their feet. They beat Pikes though will fail in a charge against shooters!
16thC Musketeer - High Attack - Unarmoured - Medium Health - Slow training - Medium Cost - Heavy ranged infantry. More powerful than the Arquebus though longer to train and more expensive. Has longer range than Arquebus.
16thC Calivermen - Medium Attack - Unarmoured - Low Health - Medium training time - Medium cost - Skirmishers with better range than Arquebusier and good sight though low health and unarmoured. Good to scout and harass.
Other units to consider throwing in would be Halberdiers/Billmen would fill a similar role to Sword and Bucklers, but would be slower and more powerful, Crossbowmen/Adventuriers(French)/Longbowmen(England) which would fill a similar role to Arquebusiers (their successors). There are plenty more of these archaic and sometimes peculiar unit types to list though I don't know how far I can go without it seeming too much to add to a Barracks! On the other hand, that's part of the joy of the 16th Century - it was a complete mish-mash of old and new tech, new tactics, old mercenary companies and the beginning of national standing armies. It would be interesting to see the player start with all these units for them to get more and more refined until we are just left with the 18thC Musketeers, Grenadiers and terrible Pikemen (which had once started as the best units around!).
I love how military tech and terminology changes and splits off during this era, for example the Crossbowman eventually gets overtaken by the Arquebusier who gets succeeded by Muskets whilst in the background they mount their horses and become Harquebusiers who are like proto-dragoons, who then become light cavalry (dropping their bigger firearms instead for pistols and maybe a carbine) int he 17th century! Fascinating.
Anyway, that's just the infantry - 16th Cavalry and Artillery are just as interesting!
Ah yes, I would love them to have swords as backup, even if they were horribly weak. Just so they don't run off to get within minimum musket range!
I think MOST of this is doable already, problem is, buildings and upgrades, plus unique units, we'd need custom models and textures for those, or else we'd just get 16th Century reskins of most units that are already in the game.
will it be like C3 or like Imperia/American Conquest?
Depends on what he wants exactly, I'd go for Imperia/American Conquest's feel as I don't like the arcady style of Cossacks in general, however, if he's going to be the lead of the mod he's going to be the one calling the shots, unless he asks for everybody's opinion on the matter, then it's a whole different question.