Congratulations, you have ruined Duel Commander! Thanks for reaching out to community, acknowledging the concerns about the direction of the format (we really appreciate it), then doubling down and making even more drastic changes. We understand that you’re seeking to improve the format but you’re clearly making decisions that will divide you community.
I also disagree with creating a “Leviathan” format (as I commented in the other post)… that is exactly the same as DuelCommander was already. Either make a NEW format (that’s not just “new” in name only), or work with the current one. DuelCommander: Leviathan could be cool… if there were new rules that made it different.
As someone who is regretfully stopping Duel Commander, I think this is a bad idea. As much as I wish we had remained with the 30 life format in the original Duel Commander, creating two formats is not the answer. Fracturing a player base and creating confusion, separate banlists, separate rules, this is not something that will be healthy for either format.
Either stick to your guns with the 20 life format or revert it back to the 30 life format, please don’t try to do both.
Can you explain why you hate on Leviathan org that wants to keep the format that has been played for YEARS and not blame the French “elites” that make format just for their own entertainment whitout listening to the majority?
Moreover, the new rules/bans inclinate way more to Highlander than Duel Commander.
This is a terrible idea. Why alienate your player base even more? It’s not like this is the most popular format ever, so know you want to split people? I’m not terribly for or against any of the two rulesets, but I think the format should move in just one direction. Otherwise Duel Commander will die.
As you are a tournament organizer I understand that you need to maximize tournament profit through maximizing tournament attendance, and due to this you need to support all possible commander formats in your tournaments, but please have the decency not to present your support for multiple duel commander formats as something you are doing to “ensure stability of our community”. If you wanted a stable dual commander community you would oppose this change.
Zurgo, Zurgo, Geist, Geist, random commander, random commander, Titania..
Please, understand that 20HP is not making aggro a buildable archetype, it is making Burn absurdly strong (8 cards, a consistent 1-drop letting you curve your deck to 2-drops), and making the meta be totally shifted into decks that are good against burn (Blue-based midrange – Geist), extremely low-clock commanders (Titania), and Zurgo. It is easy to see that happening, just check out the 20hp tournaments.
@Raizen: if only someone had told them it would look like that 2 months ago!
Not surprised in the slightest that the entire meta revolves around Burn being tier 1.
I was a huge Duel Commander fan. My LGS used to play Duel Commander as its main FNM format, but now everyone has lost interest and the store is struggling to host FNM. For whatever reason, Duel Commander just clicked with our play group. We had plenty of people that wanted to play powerful cards (Grisselbrand, Iona, Stasis, Armageddon, mana rocks, etc) but didn’t want to invest in duel lands for legacy. Duel Commander was the perfect compromise. Over time we invested more and more into our decks and the meta really balanced itself, it was quite impressive.
After 2 years of FNM my playgroup went to a GP and we all entered the Duel Commander side events. We did great, won some prizes, and got exposed to new strategies that fueled our desire to tweak our decks. All in all this was probably one of the most enjoyable times I’ve played Magic. I’ve never cared so much about improving my deck or learning the high level strategy.
At the time I was playing was mono black Skithiryx (which is more control than aggro). By reducing the life total from 30 to 20 my commander now loses it edge while racing other fast decks like Rafiq or Geist. I can’t run Necropotence / Yawgmoth’s Bargin without life gain, and you crippled Toxic Deluge which I often relied on for killing a Kalia, Kytheon, Narset, tokens, etc. Play testing my deck with the new rules isn’t going well. If I wanted to continue playing the format I would have to disassemble the deck and go back to the drawing board. Hundreds of hours spent making this deck truly my own lost. I am NOT going to bother again. Before I played Skithiryx I had a Tasigur deck and we know that that turned out.. I have lost 2 decks in 2 years playing this format and it cost me a lot of money. FAR more than standard. This is not how the format should be.
I am defiantly venting but this is the place for it. Many other fans of Duel Commander have invested in their decks and experienced bans too. They’re not giving the community any input when new changes are discussed either. If you read other comments there is clearly a group who likes the change and very much dislike for the same reasons I expressed.
So again, why you hate on Leviathan when it’s exactly the same Duel Commander as it was before Marath ban (30hp, Ooze unbanned etc.), this is THE group that does not like changes so you can take your Skythirix and have fun again.
I suggest you to checkout the facebook page to see whats before hate. The hate should go towards French commitee that made an abomination out of this.
Before anybody else complains about this, please recognize the difference between cause and effect.
Leviathan is the natural consequence of the community split, not its cause.
Dont’ worry about the community split being permanent, though. It’s unlikely that both formats will survive and thrive, because they are too similar and refer to the exact same audience so in the end one will slowly start to steal players from the other, until it will reach critical mass and organizing tournaments of the other won’t be worthwile anymore, making it disappear.
Solve the problems of both formats by creating one in the middle ground!
You make a very good point. There is a part of me that is excited for Leviathan and I feel hopeful the more I look into it. What still bothers me is that this is yet another format that will have to compete for side event scheduling at GPs which is typically the highest level of competition.
So my question is, what are you comittee going to do about this total unbalance? Ban all 4 of them?
Too conducive to delve/pitch-based midrange decks that are about 60-70% identical. The effect is meant for multiplayer where it’s random who gets hit and people are on 40 life, it obviously becomes degenerate in a 20-life 1v1 environment. You can literally kill people in 2 spells, even if you counter them. Fireblast, Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, Murderous Cut, Pyrokinesis etc. are just way too insane value with this. Example: had a game with t3 Vial Smasher, their turn Force of Will their play (-5 life), t4 play Mystical Teachings (-4 life), attack (-2 life), on their turn Fireblast (-10 life). Dead, while countering their removal. This is not okay, and warps the meta.
This is also banned in 20-life Highlander, and for a reason. It makes any creature-based matchup extremely unpleasant, as it often ends in who gets Jitte first/who can kill Jitte first. It attacks on so many angles, giving control, defense, offense, and clock, almost regardless of what it’s on. What’s worse, it severely threatens creature-based value strategies, as it’s nearly impossible to stick utility guys against it, forcing people to run extra artifact removal just for 1 potential metagame card.
This should never have been printed, it’s ridiculous in any legacy format where manabases are built on nonbasics. Yes it’s okay to punish nonbasics with stuff like Blood Moon etc. because that just hinders the opponent and doesn’t end the game on the spot – Price, on the other hand, will simply be gg immediately 90% of the time it’s cast. For 2 mana. At instant speed. Burn/aggressive red is already a tier 1 deck, it doesn’t need a 1-card instant auto-win against multicolor decks on top of everything they already have. This card is only harmful to the environment, and adds virtually no positive dimensions.
This card has always been ridiculously efficient in virtually every format that allowed it, but it’s unclear if it’s too good in Commander, or merely very good. Certainly much of why it’s not that ubiquitous has to do with Vial Smasher decks not playing white – without Vial Smasher in the format, I’m 90% certain that every aggro deck except Mono-Red/Green will be white-based in part because of this card. Removing it may lead to more diverse metagame choices. Then again, it may also be okay to leave in, depending on meta developments. Very difficult to tell, but the card is certainly one to watch out for.
Given the faster format, hard control/combo strategies are naturally under more pressure, and fairly underrepresented. Gifts would not magically make them superior, nor would it make for a dangerous metagame shift. It would simply expand choice a bit, and is in general not a card that should remain banned in the new format. It just isn’t that dangerous anymore.
The problem with French commander is it being run by a small group of people who just aren’t capable of running it and deciding such big parts of it. Wizards has a large group of qualified individuals running things while French commander is just people without the education, skills or experience to take on such a task.
Those running French commander are just not qualified and it shows.
I’m happy that Leviathan is somewhat recognized by an “official announcement” on this website.
I do agree that this is a split of the community, and that it is a shame. But this is the logical consequence of the comittee inconsistencies.
Long life to the Leviathan (aka “Real Duel Commander”) and not-so-long life to the Duel Commander (aka “Singleton Legacy”). Whatever, happy games to everyone!
I never stop playing duel commander with 30 life.
The 20 life change was a very bad idea and what happens with smasher decks now proves it.
Just making a statement, commander and duel commander are two different formats, just stop callind the second “commander” without “duel”.