of contamination of the children’s memories came under intense scrutiny. Hayne and Brown argued the climate of accusation at the time, suggestive parental questioning of the children prior to formal interview, children exposed to unwarranted sources of information, interviewers' lack of impartiality and their use of suggestive questions were grounds for doubt. Hayne also said that even the Crown experts agree with her that the children's interviews were below the standard of best practice, even for the time. She also said "Goodman and I are in large agreement on these contamination opportunities. Goodman rated child 3 as having moderate risk and child 4, 5, 6 and 7 as extreme." Crown expert Gail Goodman conceded that the contamination of the children's accounts and the long delay between the time of the events and their recounting made it impossible to know what had happened. Seymour and Blackwell also agreed there were opportunities for contamination and the interviewing approach may have been sub-optimal in some respects. However, in a combined statement, the psychologists said that "while it may be the case that children were impacted by parents' cross-talk and interaction, there is no evidence available to show that this is the case". Goodman also said, "Research at the time showed re-enactment increased very young children's recall. Interview techniques using props can illicit [sic] more answers than verbal questioning alone." She further claimed many of the interviews were doing their best and often began with neutral questions such as "what have you come here to talk to me about today?" before letting the children lead. The use of dolls in the interviews came under criticism and debate. Ellis' lawyer Rob Harrison argued the use of books and dolls depicting sexual abuse was one of the contamination factors in the case. In response, Seymour for the Crown claimed the use of props such as dolls in the interviews was mostly used when children had already disclosed sexual abuse. The dolls were just for clarity: "These targeted interactions took place after the substantial abuse report had already been made by the child. The presentation of these dolls was in keeping with protocol of time following the child already giving a credible description of abuse." Goodman added, "Research at the time showed re-enactment increased very young children's recall. Interview techniques using props can illicit more answers than verbal questioning alone." Karen Zelas, Crown psychiatrist at the 1993