waterfall" at the poop, which he could not identify; this is consistent with James' account of "the Brunswick, by a few well-directed shot, split the Vengeur's rudder, and shattered her stern-post ; besides making a large hole in her counter, through which the water rushed in great quantity." In any case, the superstructures were very much battered, prompting Lieutenant Rotheram, of Culloden, to report that he "could not place a two-feet rule in any direction, he thought, that would not touch two shot-holes". Claude Farrère attributes the sinking to ineptitude of the crew who had failed to close damaged lower gunports. The later study conducted by Captain Diaz de Soria in the 1950s suggests that water did enter from the gun ports of the lower battery, ripped off in the collision with Culloden and shattered by artillery fire, and that the crew failed to obstruct them with temporary contrivances. The panicking crew would have aggravated the situation by failing to man the pumps, explaining why it took four hours for Vengeur to sink between her surrender around 14:00 until her sinking between 18:00 and 18:30. The most debated point is the patriotic shouts, sometimes claimed to have been accompanied by singing of the Marseillaise. These shouts are denied entirely by Griffiths, but are mentioned in French accounts. Renaudin's report does claim that sailors shouted "Vive la République", but that it was in desperation for being unable to reach the British craft; it does not mention any particular defiance in the intent, though, nor does it mention flags or La Marseillaise; this position is followed by Troude and Farrère. Guérin proposes a variation, that knowing themselves doomed, the sailors remaining on Vengeur made a last display of patriotic and political fervour before dying. William James provides an alternative theory when he suggests that any person who behaved in such a manner on the stricken ship was acting under the influence of alcohol; Troude, otherwise very critical of Barère's account, vehemently dismissed this idea. Captain Renaudin was said in a naval registry to have swum to safety.Guérin, vol.6, p.505, note 38 He had in fact abandoned his ship with the first British boat, leaving his men behind in disregard for military customs and the 1765 standing order that Captains had to be last to abandon ship,Guérin (vol.6, p.46) suggests that Renaudin left his ship as a sign that he was surrendering her