enemy, so Athens has no need to conquer them. The Athenians counter that if they accept Melos' neutrality and independence, they would look weak: Their subjects would think that they left Melos alone because they were not strong enough to conquer it. The Melians argue that an invasion will alarm the other neutral Greek states, who will become hostile to Athens for fear of being invaded themselves. The Athenians counter that the other Greek states on the mainland are unlikely to act this way, because they are free and independent and thus loath to take up arms against Athens. What worries Athens is potential rebellions in its empire from disgruntled peoples they have already conquered, including islands that would threaten its dominance of the seas. Conquering Melos will demonstrate Athens' strength and discourage rebellions. The Melians argue that it would be shameful and cowardly of them to submit without a fight. The Athenians counter that the Melians are not facing a fair fight, and if the Melians lose, they will suffer not mere shame but annihilation. The Melians argue that though the Athenians are far stronger, there is still a chance that the Melians could win, and they will regret not trying their luck. The Athenians counter that the Melians should not indulge in hope when their odds of winning are so evidently faint, and the consequences of defeat so terrible. If the Melians resist, they will likely lose and come to bitterly regret their irrational optimism. The Melians argue that they will have the assistance of the gods because their position is morally just. The Athenians counter that the gods will not intervene because it is the natural order of things for the strong to dominate the weak. The Melians argue that their Spartan kin will come to their defense. The Athenians counter that the Spartans don't have enough at stake in Melos to risk an intervention, noting that Athens has the stronger navy. The Athenians express their shock at the Melians' lack of realism. They reiterate that there is no shame in submitting to an overwhelmingly stronger enemy, especially one who is offering reasonable terms. The Melians do not change their minds and politely dismiss the envoys. Analysis Thucydides explained that the purpose of conquering Melos was to demonstrate the strength and sternness of Athens so as to discourage its island territories from rebelling. Whether it was effective