One thing people object to is differentiating between swarm types. That is to say, they feel there is no discernable difference between a reproductive swarm and an overcrowding swarm.
Along the same lines they object to there being such a thing as a reproductive cut-off and the like. They say that these things are subjective and that walt is basically telling a story that isn't based on science in order to make himself look smart.
For the record, I sort of doubt walt is all that arrogant. People are funny. They like to be right. Whatever. I know I checkerboarded some hives in early April that I wasn't going to see again until July. Early April is pretty early to be doing much with bees in NY. But there were lots of bees and honey in July.
Write your book Walt. I'll buy a copy.
Speaking about people wanting to part with their money, and some folks "missing an attitude," I have an attitude I'll sell! In fact, a couple...just let me know what you want!
Concerning reproductive and overcrowding swarms, the end result is the same... a new colony out in the wilds, and less honey for me. In fact, frequently no honey for me. The cause MIGHT even be the same, but the time of year or season is different. Then again, how hard would it be to get an overcrowding swarm late in the season, if the queen is cutting back laying? I don't know, splitting such fine hairs is above my pay grade (and being bald I don't have any hairs to spare), so I'll leave that to others.
What I can affirm is that this discussion has been most beneficial to me, as I've learned a lot from Mike Palmer, Walt Wright, and others. It seems to me that any good advance in beekeeping has come as a result of Thesis - Antithesis - Synthesis. For decades we've lived with the Thesis of the double deep and reversing, etc etc etc. Now we have the Antithesis of checkerboarding and other ideas. Could it be that as we hammer this out, and try these methods in our own beekeeping, in a few years a Synthesis will emerge? And in 5 or 10 years beeks will wonder what the controversy was all about?
To the questioner who asked what Checkerboarding is, go to the Beesource home page, find POV, Walt Wright, and read to your heart's content. In fact, if you want to really learn, read all those articles in POV from various sources. Also check out George Imirie's "Pink Pages" that has been referenced on this forum.
they will have to pay me if they want to access forums.
And, that does not mean a cheap cup of coffee!
I learned a lot from the back & forth between Mike & Walt and I wish it would continue.
And that's really the brilliance of Beesource isn't it? It has taken these men a lifetime to learn what they have, and I'm grateful that they come here and lay it out for the rest of us. Like heaflaw, I've learned much and understand that when highly talented and sincere people get together there may be a spark or two. The illumination is well worth it.
Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...
Thanks, troops. Caught me just in time. Tuned in this morning to back out myself. Seemed like I was doing more harm than good in my mission of promoting the stuff learned.
As long as we are here already, let me comment on the manhours thing. It can be done in the middle of winter. If the cluster is below the box to be CBed, a few warmed bees might come up to investigate the intrusion, but there is little harm in that. And what other activities are accomplished in late winter except checking for losses and cleanup of them? It seems a profitable trade of essentially dead time for busy time in the swarming season. No need to split, or whatever your current swarm prevention activities might be in the busy season. Consider the possibility that CB might actually be a time-saving approach.
I too am gaining much from this thread, since MP is out I will have to start a new thread to dicuss reversing and it's specifics.
Walt, you talk about CBing as a swarm prevention. If as you state one is to CB a hive in the winter or very early spring, how long is it then somewhat safe to not search for swarm cells?
Also with CBing, I am right that for each hive you keep you would need 1 deep and 5 mediums? 2 being part of the brood ?
I want to thank ALL for the comments and ideas on this forum. I have been following it in its entirety. As for the bickering, so what I love my wife and she disagrees with me and makes me mad. Thats life. It has been a very informative forum. Me personally I do not own but 3 shallow supers,and I am not going to run and buy more just for this purpose. I DO believe that I can manipulate my frames and hive bodies in my 2 deep supers and timely add my medium supers to improve my chances of avoiding swarms. I will need this in my new Russian hives!! Now my Queen Bee is about to swarm on me so.
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.
Walt, My sincere apologies if you took my comments as spiteful. I could have phrased it a little better. I'll stand by arrogant but only for lack of a better word. Hope this clarifies it a little for you
After reading through 12 pages of posts, I have deduced CB does not apply to those of us who run two deeps.
For me, the reality of all this discussion comes down to deciding on a hive configuration strategy that works best for you. If you are going to run one deep and two mediums, the CB method may very well be a necessity. It seems to me it boils down to square inches of available comb space regardless of the box configuration.
"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"...well that horse ain't got nothing on a bee.
Had hoped we would eventially get to specifics.
Havn't looked for swarm cells since the first year of CB testing. Fractured too many supersedure cells. A side effect of CB is automatic SS. Not a good side effect in Africanized areas. SS is treated in POV as seen in CBed hives. Unless you can distinguish the difference, looking for Q cells is not recommended.
Can't say about your location, but that much drawn comb would get the colony into the "main flow" with wax making capibility, locally.
An article on my reservations about wintering in the double deep config should be added in POV soon, and I don't expect anyone to change config on my say so.
No offence taken. Relax, and thanks for participating.
Thanks for adding it so quickly and the link.
Have no experience with all-mediums config. and am not qualified to comment on it, but will add a note where weight is concerned. A medium, plugged out with capped honey, can weigh as much as a deep dedicated to brood. And typically, you will have more of them.
>I'll stand by arrogant but only for lack of a better word.
A better word might be "confident."
Last edited by waynesgarden; 12-26-2009 at 06:28 AM. Reason: spelling
In the spirit of the holiday season, I invite you to reassume your rightful place as the spokesman for the northern perspective. From here, I can only guess what complications result from your severe winters.