Arguments that conflated thermodynamics and kinetics were common across both the survey and interview data. Despite explicit instruction regarding specific kinetic and thermodynamic considerations in the Claisen condensation, student performance was around 50% on three multiple choice items, which further reiterates the challenges associated with this topic. How can we better equip students to use kinetic and thermodynamic arguments for mechanistic reasoning? First, the interplay of kinetics and thermodynamics should be introduced throughout the curriculum -including general chemistry. Most general chemistry books introduce kinetics, and several chapters later 280 introduce thermodynamics or vice versa . The significance of considering both kinetics and thermodynamics concurrently is a missed opportunity in general chemistry . Second, organic chemistry textbooks are generally over 1000 pages with numerous reactions . This has generally resulted in rote memory study strategies according to recent publications . The focus on the nuanced kinetics and thermodynamic arguments for reactions is generally limited in favor of covering 285 a substantial number of reactions for emphasizing synthesis in lieu of physical organic applications . We need to identify what will best serve our students in the future for biochemistry, physical chemistry, and more advanced organic courses in terms of coverage.