<prompt> Human: Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments and drop a quick update.I found a 2012 RAV-4 with about 69k miles on it. The listing price was 12,000, but that was deceptive as there was a 300 dealer fee, 320 for tagstitle and 2,500 between a few different reconditioningservice fees shown after the fact. Between everything when I sat down to negotiate their grand total was just over 16,000 for the car.Ultimately we haggled, then agreed on 14,500. Theyll also be touching up some minor cosmetic issues paint scratch, problem with the sun visor, etc. Feels like I did pretty well, all considered. Looking at listing sites I see other RAVs with similar agemileage in my area posted in the 14,000 range. No telling what their dealer fees are, but if they didnt have any beyond the 300 which is standard in my state, I would have been in the 15,500 range 14k car 300 dealer fee 6 taxes, then 320 tag fees. I only discussed the car in terms of TOTAL cost, so it largely became a background thing whether the car cost 12,000 or if any fees were waivedlowered. I just know what Im paying and the accounting is their issue.Definitely appreciate the advice I got here, which probably spared me a stressful week of trying to haggle thousands of dollars off a list price.---Background: Wife was rear-ended last week, and we were surprised to learn the car was deemed a total loss. State Farm has offered 8,700, and dipping into our emergency fund would give us about 14,000 total. That can stretch a bit to include taxesfees but Id like to keep my all in around there. Im comfortable spending to that amount in order to get a car that doesnt add years or miles to what my wife was driving.I would think that I should set my search over 14k with a plan to negotiate down, but is there any guidance or anecdotal experience to tell me how high I might look? IE is it a safe rule of thumb to expect there should be 10 or so of wiggle room on the internet price of a listing if Im ready to hold fast with my offer? We do have the luxury of being able to juggle one car for a while, but I cant sit it out forever.If relevant Im looking almost solely at Hondas CRV or Accord and Toyotas RAV or Camry from around 2012 or newer and no more than 80,000 miles. So certainly not brand new or CPO cars, or anything particularly rare in our area.Thanks for any thoughts.  <response>: With the very competitive market nowadays with the internet pricing and what not, the days of making major negotiation progress on used cars is largely over.If the dealership listed their car on Autotraderor whatever for 3-4K over list price, it would be so far down the results that nobody would ever call on it.In my experience, on used vehicles, youre looking at about 500-1K room on a 15K car. Plus obviously you can negotiate the trade in if you have one. 