<prompt> Human: I see a lot of posts on how people are happy to have their 401k because its their money and they make more money in the market than a pension. Either Im thinking about 401k wrong or the 401k pales in comparison.So even if I saved up 18500 every single year for 35 years, had it all in equities so I get that 7 I would have just shy of 3 million. What middle class working class person does this? At a 3 withdrawal rate so the money actually... well lasts you forever like a pension you only see 90k which will be just about OK in 35 years. Do most people spend 401k like this? Even with that or if you draw a little more it can and will go broke if you live to 90.Take the pensioner. You hear of cops and teachers and random fed employees making 70,80,90k for the rest of their lives and when they die it goes to their spouse. I guarantee they didnt put 647k 35x18.5 of their own money into that fund. They also dont likely put in 35 years to get that.Like I said I dont know if something is off on my math but it seems like the 401k is a shitty deal even if you max it I doubt middle class people do  <response>: Pensions are sweet, so sweet that they are bankrupting states. In my state, the employer pays 16 of each persons payroll into pension, and the employee pays 9. The employer is a governmental entity, meaning constituents are paying for that payroll. The pension liabilities themselves are massively underfunded in many states - just google California and Illinois and pension liabilities. Pensions are sweet for those who are in and getting the payout, terrible for those are not and are paying for it in taxes. 