<prompt> Human: Im starting to feel old. Especially for just now getting interested and trying to get caught up on this stuff. Im 36 years old, and I just got my first secured credit card less than a year ago.Ive used the card responsibly to build credit, and still have bad credit, but its way better than it used to be; 10 years ago, my score reflected my irresponsibility with many bills, and was at a low of 330. The card has brought it up to 608 Transunion Vantage 3.0 per Credit Karma - up 70 points from last week for some reason ?? just discovered this as I checked it to be sure of numbers for this post! It dropped 150 points from 670 a few months ago for no apparent reason - Im sure there was one, but I couldnt find any changes, 650 Equifax Vantage 3.0 per Credit Karma, and my Experian FICO is 609 now per Discover. This isnt really about my credit scores, but I wanted to highlight my situation.I recently got a job starting out at 40k salary, and I pay 115mo on my car family loan - 3850 for a 2006 Volvo S60 2.5T 6 APR interest - 80-year-old grandma drew from a line of equity to help us buy it. I also pay 450mo for my apartment and have a 10 month old daughter, and my fiancee lives with me and doesnt work. She has a 774 FICO score because shes been a lot more responsible than me in earlier life, lol. Our utility bills for gas electric are 90mo each fixed income budget plan, but we have like 200 credit with electric for whatever reason due to not using as much as weve been paying for the fixed budget.Anyway, wed like to buy a house. My credit kinda sucks a bit, fiancees is great, but shes unemployed. We dont have a down payment saved yet, we have 0 for retirement, and 0 for emergencies other than what we have combined in credit cards. Yes, I know we need to save those first and we cant count lines of credit as emergency funds. So this is more for the future hopefully not-so-distant.The meat of the question: Some people say buying a house is equivalent to paying yourself; its an asset, and will usually gain value or hold its value. You arent paying the bank your mortgage, you are paying yourself. I just... dont quite buy that. Heres something I posted a while ago about renting vs. buying, and yet Im still on the fence just because I really want to own and have equity. I wasnt trying to be an expert in that post, and Im not trying to be an expert now. I know things are different for everyone and every situation is different, but I hope Ive revealed enough about the situation here.Im not looking for a yes, buy a house, or no, dont answer. Although if you have a strong argument about why we should or shouldnt I definitely want to hear them. Im really looking for more of an answer as to whether buying a house is or isnt an asset or liability.Assistant: Im really looking for more of an answer as to whether buying a house is or isnt an asset or liability.From a pure accounting perspective, the answer is both. You record the market value of the property as an asset, and the amount of the mortage as a liability. The difference between those two accounts is your equity.Human: The both answer is one that is often simplified as I said in the OP - youre paying yourself, because what you pay is seen as money you can recover if you sell. I dont know if I agree with that or not - homes have a lot of unexpected expenses - if you pay 10k for a new roof, can you increase your asking price upon selling it by 10k? Probably not. That cost was probably just a net loss, although something with a new roof may be more attractive to buyers, allowing you to sell more easily, you cant up the price of the house accordingly. Therefore, any money you put into the house I think is just a net loss overall, and much of it may be necessary, so you have to live there long enough for the value to appreciate to the point where your maintenance costs equate to your buying cost to break even. Thats a tall order most likely in most cases. There are exceptions to this rule where maybe you buy a cheap fixer-upper to flip, but that doesnt really apply if youre going to live there.Assistant: homes have a lot of unexpected expensesAnd do you think rental units dont have unexpected expenses? Of course they do... but the cost for them is just hidden in your rent instead of something you have to budget for yourself. If landlords didnt make money even after unexpected expenses, no one would ever rent out their property. if you pay 10k for a new roof, can you increase your asking price upon selling it by 10k?If the roof is replaced due to normal wear and tear, then yes, absolutely. Yesterday your house was worth less because the roof needed to be replaced, and now it has a new one, and thus its market value has increased.The market value of your house is not static -- if a faucet starts to leak and you tried to sell the house in that condition, it would be worth less on the market than if you fixed it. Maintenance costs to keep the property in proper working condition are required if you want to maximize the market valuation.Its also important to realize that there are a lot of non-financial aspects to home ownership. Not having to deal with inspections by the landlord -- having a place that is 100 your own -- was a huge psychological win for me. Having a ginormous garage that I can turn into a metal and woodworking shop? Awesome, and something thats nearly impossible in any rental unit. Doing my own renovations to make the place truly mine? Fantastic. I rented for many years, and would never, ever go back to it.Human: I get what youre saying, and I understand the fact that rent is more expensive than a mortgage often times, varies by area, but usually rent is more expensive than buying in terms of monthly payment.Ok, so story time. My parents own a LOT of property, lots of houses and duplexes they rent out I live in one of them and pay rent just like anyone else! They also work full-time, my dad is a PE licensed civil engineer in all 50 states, makes about 120kyr, and my mom is a registered and licensed dietitian RD LD and makes about 70kyr. Combined household income is right around 200k gross. This doesnt count the rentals.They have owned the rentals since before I was even born. Im 36. Those properties have been nothing but a liability, and Im not saying that from my own assumptions, but they visited a professional financial advisor, really old professional dude who is like 80 and probably too old to still be doing this shit he just loves his job, has made my grandma shitloads from investments since her retirement. They are still struggling financially with a COMPLETELY PAID OFF SHITTY STARTER HOUSE IN THE STICKS, 3 BEDS, 1.5 BATHS, NO BASEMENT, OLD PAID OFF USED CARS... He told them they are bleeding all their money into the rentals. Literally almost all their income they work hard for, is going into these rentals for upkeep and maintenance and taxes and etc.My dad thinks they are an asset and refuses to sell them, even after that advice. Because we live out in the sticks, and he bought them in the 70s, hes holding them because he thinks they will be prime real estate when commercial developments move into the area. Hell never make as much as hes lost, and he knows it, hes a smart man. Hes hoping to get as close to breaking even as possible, and hes used them a few times to take out refis and second mortgages and home equity loans when they need emergency cash, and maybe in that sense, they HAVE been valuable - he has a lot of equity and collateral. Hes still in the net negatives and always will be.Heres the point of this whole story: landlords who rent property have to be competitive for the area they are renting in. You cant just raise rent willy-nilly without fear of losing good tenants or places sitting empty for a long time. Some people dont pay rent, and it takes a long and expensive court process just to get them out. Some people trash shit and fuck you hard on repair costs. Renting often comes with unpredictable riffraff, and it can be difficult and expensive to get rid of them or fix up damages. Usually when you buy a property and rent it out, you are just trying to offset most of the costs to finance and maintain it, and hoping it appreciates in value enough to sell it for a net profit, but its almost 100 going to be an expense and liability up until that time, and youre hoping to get lucky on a bubble.Most people dont understand how it works. I hope I cleared it up. My familys situation may or may not be unique, but I suspect its common. Just wanted to share.  <response>: So, let me get this straight... your parents: Have NO idea how to run a business. If they did, they would have looked at their PL statements at some point in the last 40 years and realized they werent profitable. Furthermore, they should have ensured that they knew how to run a single property profitably before buying more. This is basic business stuff. Dont know it, or dont do it, and you fail... just like your parents are. If they had a proper set of books and knew what they were doing, they wouldnt have needed a financial advisor to tell them they were bleeding money into their properties. Have no idea how to manage their personal finances. 200K a year, plus rental income, and theyre still struggling financially? Dont understand the sunk cost fallacy.Your father seems to be banking on the fact that the land will be worth something in the future as development pushes out. Its been 40 years and that hasnt happened yet, so when is it going to happen? Would he have lost less money by just destroying the buildings and paying the land tax for the last 40 years? His PL which apparently he doesnt look at would have told him that.Its a neat anecdote, but your parents clearly have no idea what theyre doing, and is not representative of anything. Being a landlord isnt easy, but you cant tell me that its unprofitable for most people, even within your local market. Anyone with a lick of business sense would either sell the property or raise the rates if they were constantly losing money. 